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Today on Super Normalized, I have the pleasure to invite on Rita Anayi. And she's the founder of Chrysalis Tantra, working in Melbourne and on the Gold coast as a psychotherapist, somatic therapist, tantric body worker, intimacy coach and energy healer. After successful career as an architect, interior designer and building biologist in Brazil and Australia, four burnouts and a full collapse under forced her out of a life that looked put together together and into the body she had spent decades leaving. Years of spiritual and esoteric study had not created lasting change. What did was the meeting of psychotherapy, somatic work, a different kind of spirituality she calls visceral and tantric bodywork. Work that she first sought out for intimacy and which also resolved a chronic health condition she had carried for decades. From that lived metamorphosis, she developed the architecture of inner coherence, a way of building life that can actually stand rooted in truth, presence and self responsibility and in the understanding that repressed life force, nervous system patterns and what the body holds will shape desire, intimacy and destiny. Long after the original story has been told, Rita joins supernormalized to speak from that ground. Spirits and ceremony, sexual shadow and the body as a place of talk therapy could not reach. And you can find her work@chrysalis tantra.com welcome to the show, Rita.
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Thank you CJ. Thanks for the introduction as well.
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Now, you call your current relationship with spirituality visceral spirituality. What does that mean in the body and not as just an idea?
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Yeah, this came after many years exploring and practicing spirituality in, you know, more traditional and also non traditional ways. And today for me, spirituality is literally everything. There is no separation between prayer or ceremony or making offerings for guides or whatever. And the way I decide to live my life, presence, how I behave myself when I am driving or what I choose to eat, how I choose to take care of my body, my relationship with money, for example, both how much I understand and allow to receive, how I decide to use it, what I buy with it, what I choose to invest my money in, in terms of what companies I'm going to put my money in, and especially I would say above everything, the things that I do and nobody's watching, the things that I do when I am alone, my thoughts, the motivations behind my choices and my actions, the real motivation. So yeah, for me, visceral spirituality is this relationship with life from a place of understanding that absolutely everything is inherently sacred, that every single person that crosses my path is my master, is my teacher, every plant that I connect with has a Lot of wisdom to share with me. Every animal, it is really embodying life, my body, my thoughts, my emotions, my feelings. As sacred as spirituality, really.
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Yeah, exactly. You mentioned there that things that you do, even when you're alone and not being watched, I mean, I would say that spirits are always watching and our ancestors, and they're like. They're probably just sitting there going, sometimes going, what are you doing?
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Agree.
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Yeah. So when. Where did your relationship with the unseen begin? And what first made it undeniable rather than theoretical?
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Yeah. When I was 19 years old in Brazil, where I come from, I had a very strong experience. I was sleeping back then. We used to live, my mom, myself and my sister in a very small house, had only one bedroom. And we would sleep all together in the same bedroom. I was sharing the bed with my sister and I had this dream. But today, I know wasn't only a dream, but back then was an extremely vivid, real dream where I encountered this woman that in the dream, when she was wearing a burqa, you know, only her eyes were showing. And when I looked into her eyes, I. I knew her. I straight away knew that I knew her. And I felt this immense love and this longing for giving her a hug. And when I started getting close to her, she actually reacted with a lot of anger and she came and tried to grab my throat. And straight away I woke up and I had sleep paralysis for hours. I think this, when I woke up was about three or so in the morning. I believe I had no. I have no real idea. And I was there for hours with my sister laying down by my side and couldn't do anything. I saw the sunrise. And when I woke up, there wasn't much space in my family to talk about these things. And I was just terrified. I was really thinking that I never wanted to sleep again because I was terrified about having that encounter again. And in that afternoon, I was home and the phone rang, the landline back then, phone rang. This was 29 years ago. And when I answered, it was the mom of a friend of my boyfriend back then, like someone very. I knew her, but disconnected from me. And she asked me if I was okay. I said, yep, I'm all right. And then she asked again, like nothing happened last night with you. And then I was a bit in shock and asked her how she knew about that. And she told. Well, one of my spiritual guides told me to call you. And tonight I remember that was a Wednesday. Tonight you should go to the spiritual center and get an energy healing. And you are going to feel better. And so I did. I jumped into the bus and I was there at night and I got the energy healing. They asked me to come back for six more weeks, which I did. Towards the end of that treatment, that spiritual treatment they call it, that they told me that I should join their mediumship and spirituality school, that I had a mediumship that I needed to know how to control, to master how to use in service. And I did. I studied in this school for two years. And the first year my mediumship was completely locked just so I could study the theoretical part of the things, of their. Their theory at least. And from the second year onwards, we were slowly, slowly learning how to channel it. The. The work that they did and they do until now. It's a beautiful work. It's like an er, in the. In the spiritual realm. They rescue spirits that don't know that they have died or many types have spirits of suicidals or religions that don't believe in reincarnation. And we would channel them and it was actually a large group that would give spiritual support and, and yeah, just address them later. So that was my first experience. And during this, not only this first year, I was with that group for almost four years before I moved to a more shamanic type of religion in Brazil called Umbanda. And yet during the time my mediumship started to open and yeah, I could see things. I could. Not only during the channeling, but yeah, sometimes when I allow it, she was really good because then I could also sort of not be open when I shouldn't be open, per se. I learned how to do that, but that was the beginning. Yeah.
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Wow, that's huge. I love the fact that, you know, your boyfriend's mother or aunt tuned into you and went, oh yeah, she needs some help. That's cool.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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So you've lived with guides, obsessors, demons and animal spirits in your direct experience. How do you tell those apart?
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Yeah, The way I would say it is there is an energetic signature. You know, both incarnated beings, humans or non humans, they can try and pretend to be what they are not. You know, words can lie, actions sometimes can lie, but the energy doesn't lie. And over these years I started to learn how to, to discern the energy signature, the energy frequency of these beings. For example, when I am doing a shamanic session and I feel that there is something coming from the person that I am working with, like whether an obsessor or a demon or any type of energy that is more dense, I feel in My body a tiredness. I feel tired and I can almost feel like as if my legs were so heavy. I can feel the density on the lower parts of my body. And then I know how I can address that with my own spiritual guides and spirit animals. It's a long time of relationship with majority of them still. I have new ones that present themselves or that have been with me for a long time. I felt them there, but they never communicated. And then they start communicating with them. It is very much like a friendship. I put aside time and space to sit and willingly connect with them. So I become so familiar with their energy that it's. There is no doubt that it's them right close to me or communicating through me at the same time. About three years ago I started receiving this new consciousness that for the first time I could see her as a very, very old indigenous woman. But I have several spiritual guides that present themselves to me with the archetype of indigenous people. And the frequency of this specific one was different. But still this is how she was presenting to me. And the third time that I was channeling her, when I looked at myself, I had two legs and six arms and I was like, what type of indigenous person are you with all these arms? And then she told me, well, now I can show myself to you as I really am because if I had shown before, you would probably be scared. And then I saw this massive spider in front of me. And she's the most ancient of the ones I would say that I work with. Very, very different energy from all the other ones. She is completely out of duality. I call her, yeah, the, the Great Spider. She's how she presents to me and talks with people and yeah, so sometimes there is this delay and when it's a very different energy as well. I might feel my body takes a while sometimes to be able to connect. I might feel a little bit of nausea or dizz is until over time I can get used with that frequency and communicate more easily.
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I've noticed myself with some spirits that pretty much drink your energy when they come around. I get that heaviness too. And my wife and I, we call them bugs. You know, we've got to get the bugs off because they start influencing you in ways that you don't expect. Like you might just suddenly feel really flat and ordina or start to have really odd ideation which just isn't you. And you notice that you're like, I wouldn't normally think like that. I got a bug. And then you check yourself a bugs you're like, ah, it's a bug. And then you just cast it out and move it on. Because, you know, in the spirit realm, I don't know how we get represented, but they see it as a source of energy, like, oh, let's go over there for a drink. And they don't realize, sometimes they don't realize that they're just having a drink on somebody that's having a life. So, yeah, it's odd, but interesting stuff. So when something is spiritual interference rather than psychological material, what else do you notice in a person or in yourself? I mean, you did mention the heaviness, and I just mentioned then that sort of strange ideation. Is there anything else that's an indicator for you that this isn't their own mind or being?
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Yeah, that's an interesting question, Chris, because to be honest with you, I understand that that's all intertwined.
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Okay.
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The door that connects with these obsessors always opens from within, consciously or unconsciously. Okay. And what I mean by this is there is a frequency. There must be a frequency inside a person that resonates and connects with that external energy. Otherwise there is no key and lock structure. Makes sense.
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That makes sense.
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Yeah, yeah. So we attract them. Yeah, yeah. And with obsessors, this is something that I learned in that first school that I went to when I was 19 years old. There are many different types of them. There are obsessors, for example, if you are addicted to something, if you like smoking, right? Spirits that left the body addicted to smoking, to cigarettes, to tobacco, they will still want to absorb that fluid, per se, and it usually doesn't take long for them to learn the technique of how to do that, how to connect with a human being and not only suck that energy when that person is doing whatever they want or. And also influence their thoughts and desires. And even sometimes depending on the skills, the level of skills that these spirits can have or not, they can learn even how to manipulate certain aspects of reality to foster the situations where the person will feel like either smoking or gambling or what you born, whatever. Right. They have as escape mechanism. So that's one type. There is also obsessors that a person can bring sometimes from lifetimes.
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Yeah, right, right.
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From other lives or parallel realities. And these type of obsessors, they can be with you because of contracts, agreements, or even because they don't like you personally, they hate you, and also because of love. And that's one of the hardest ones to break the connection.
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Yeah, yeah. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Spot On.
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So, yeah, I think it's both. Every time that I disconnect these energies, entities from people, I have a very serious conversation with them about what they do from that moment onwards. Because it's their free will. They can call everything in again if they don't change the behaviors, the thoughts that were opening the door and inviting in.
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Yeah, yep, yeah, yeah. You can cast out all of the spirits you want, but if you keep on basically opening the door, they're just going to come back and attach again and do the same things to you. What has ceremony shown you that ordinary consciousness could not?
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I think it's a level of embodiment and direct experience that transforms knowledge into knowing. In the. When we speak about spirituality and yeah, okay, yeah, it is bringing it to the cells. I would say
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as a part of your work too, you also do channeling. What is actually happening when you do that? And how do you stay discerning rather than becoming absorbed?
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There are two aspects with that. Like, one is learning through experience. First of all, how to switch off the mind. Because it's really when I switch off my mind that I can more and more channel with quality, that the transmission can be more pure. However, at the same time, the more knowledge I have into my. Into my brain per se, the more I know, the more I understand, the easier it is also for the spiritual guides to use that information and put it together in a certain way to tell whatever they wanted to say. And because majority of the times, with rare exceptions, I only channel my own spiritual guides, this comes from these, as I said before, years of relationship developed with them. So it is a level of trust that, you know, usually takes time to happen. And yeah, when I know it's them, I know that they are not only working with the person or with the people who are with me, but they are all also working my vessel, cleaning my vessel.
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And yeah, okay, considering all of your work with the spirit realm, plant medicines, channeling, what does a grounded adult spirituality look like for you today?
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I think it starts going back to the. The coherence that I will talk again when. If we touch on the architecture of inner coherence. You know, if there is no coherence, there is no maturity in one's spiritual path. So by coherence, I mean alignment between the thoughts, the emotions and the actions. So it doesn't. To me, there is not much value if you go and you pray and you, you know, do your duties and you do your processes, I don't know, go to church, whatever, and in your thoughts you are still very much either attached to beliefs that are making you suffer, you live a life based in fear, or you keep judging yourself and others all the time. Right. And yet the actions, because living in a three dimensional reality, if we don't align the actions to doing right, which can have many different expressions, as I said, from what you eat, how you decide to sleep, what you consume, what you decide to consume, also talking about what you listen to, what you watch, the conversations you have, the people that you meet, all of that. There is no way that you are going to be really connected to spirituality from a place that is going to bring real evolution, that is going to really give you freedom, that is going to make you feel empowered to feel, to understand that it's you that is creating your reality all the time. That's always going to happen with a certain type of distortion and you are going to be walking, but doesn't come out of the same place. So maturity for me is really aligning everything.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Self responsibility.
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Yeah, for sure. Yeah. It's like authentic living. Now what would you say to someone who has had a real encounter with spirit or spirits and has never said it out loud?
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Probably I would guide them to analyze why this fear? Why are you so afraid of being seen and being judged? I think to me the siege, the precious lesson would be there in that shadow, the fear of speaking. Yeah, let's, let's go there, let's understand because this is certainly impacting other areas of life and that
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now we'll jump into the architecture of inner coherence. So can you explain from the outside you had a successful life as an architect, interior designer and building biologist. What was the inner structure of that life actually made of?
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I was very much placing my validation, my worth, my identity really to that status or professional positioning of being an architect. I remember I really liked when I was getting to know someone and the moment when I told them, oh yeah, and I am an architect as well and the person would be oh yeah. Oh wow. And that would feed my ego. Yeah, was beautiful. I liked. I really loved working as an architect. To be honest, I wanted to be an architect since I was a kid. I designed my first house when I was 12 years old. Feel very blessed actually. My two careers are both connected with things that I loved. But now I clearly see that the whole architecture path was very much connected to external validation. I would be completely devastated if I received a negative feedback from a client. Like way more than normal really.
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How do you handle negative feedback now then, considering that you've got this new inner coherence.
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Look, it's okay. It's not easy, for sure, being super honest. But at the same time, it's both an invitation to pay attention to whatever that person received as negative, and there is room there for improvement, but also an opportunity to go a little bit deeper and sit with that shadow of mine. Because if it's still somehow affecting me, there is work to be done there. Yeah, my relationship with this shadow has changed a lot.
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I know, from my own work with spiritual work and being connected with spirits and gods and goddesses and everything. There can be a bit of ego inflation involved in that. And that does lead to suffering eventually when you realize that you're just basically blowing yourself up. So I've got to ask, have you actually ever had any experiences like that yourself as well,
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of receiving negative feedback in the spiritual work?
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No, no. More like your spirits or the beings that you're working with inflating you, and you're like, you know, maybe I am the Messiah. You know what I mean?
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It's more the other way around. Oh, wow.
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Okay, so now we're kicking you down.
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My spiritual guides, they keep me on my feet a lot.
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Oh, that's awes.
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Yeah, they keep me on my feet a lot. Especially two specific types of spirits that I work with that are called echus and pompajitas. Yeah. I. Sometimes I make a mistake or repeat the same mistake. Right. And I just listen them laughing at the back. Like, again, I would say that they keep me on my feet a lot.
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That's awesome. They keep you grounded. That's good. So what is inner coherence in plain language? And how can someone tell their inner building is unsound, even if it still looks impressive?
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I would say when there is. When someone has a good foundation, they have the capacity to be present. They are not very reactive to things around them. They are not operating in survival mode, in fight or flight or. Yeah, from subconscious survival programs a lot. They are not afraid to feel emotions. They are familiar with their emotions without being taken by them. And they certainly, certainly have a good relationship with their bodies in terms of being embodied. Both from not exhausting yourself, not keep poisoning yourself in many different ways. They take care of the body. They understand the sacredness of this life vessel as well.
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After your decades of spiritual study, why wasn't that itself enough to stop your own personal life collapse at the time?
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Yeah, I love this question. Because this is exactly what led me to. To create the process that I offer today, which I call the Architecture of inner coherence. Yeah, it had been decades. I had had many spiritual experiences, including plant medicine ceremonies, which were all amazing and had already opened so many doors, so much healing, so much therapies, etc. But still I remember when that happened was the dark night of my soul. It wasn't only the burnout. It was a burnout that collapsed my body so deeply that I stopped producing serotonin. So I went into severe depression. I was diagnosed with severe depression, extremely severe anxiety and extremely severe stress.
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Wow.
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On top of this, I had a severe sciatica crisis. I couldn't walk, I couldn't move, I couldn't sit, stand up from my bed. And that sciatica took more than two years to heal. A relationship that I was in came to an end and I had this completely disconnection from the, the holy spirituality that I was practicing. Because I remember asking myself, how come am I here with everything that I know I couldn't understand? And still I was there. I was suicidal. The only reason, and this is such a beautiful design that I did for my own life, I would say the only reason why I didn't kill myself then was because in that first spiritual course and service that I did that it was channeling. I use it to receive a lot of spirits from suicidal people. And I had been in numerous time to what I call the suicidal valley, which is a collective, creative, created reality where these souls inhabit for a while. Right. And I knew that taking my life wouldn't take me anywhere. And I remember sharing this with my doctor. Right. And yeah, it was over the next three years after that that I could not only start exploring myself through a different lens of psychotherapy, but also start also bringing somatic practices, including tantric body work, but not only, but addressing my body together with all the other things. And I started to woven this interconnectedness. And I was like, wow, there is this, there is there, they relate. And yeah, after a few years after I started working actually with a lot of guidance and help from my spiritual guides, and also being very honest through planche medicine ceremonies, unlocking certain parts of my brain that started working in a certain way that I could as soon as I learned new things. Doesn't matter if it was neuroscience or tantra or trauma work, nervous system work, I could see that they were all speaking about the same thing, just using slightly different terms.
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Wow.
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So I, yeah, I suddenly I started to have this realization of, yeah, it's not, it will never work. It didn't work for me until I could line up all these layers of who I was and really start observing and addressing every single one of them. The coherence. Right. And. Yep. And then I could finally start not only finding my way out of it or out of that dark, really dark night of the soul that I was, but being guided to maybe start offering this. To be honest, I wasn't planning changing career at all. This came from external guidance, spiritual guidance. And I'm glad it did because I'm much happier now than I was before. But yeah, so this is what I offer. Everything that I offer came from my experience, my embodied experience. And it's truly the way that I see us operating. It doesn't mean that is the true or the only truth or the only way, but it's certainly what I can hold space for because I share from an embodied experience field.
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That's huge. Yeah, I'm just mind boggled with that because I've been through really intense experiences where I wanted to take my own life as well. So I completely understand. It's horrific. But you do learn from it. And I wouldn't say it's a good learning to have to go that way, but it happened that way for me too. Now onto your sexual shadow work. It's a foundation that this whole field rests on. Now, I understand that from reading Wilhelm Reich that sexual energy is pretty much the power of the whole universe. And if that's out of alignment, everything is. So why. Why that and not trauma and communication or technique when it comes to deep shadow work?
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Yeah, I think the trauma, communication, they come after, they are not the seed yet they are not the root. The shadow work comes from such an instinctive place. You know, the. The part of ourselves that cannot necessarily be thought in a logical way, rationalize it in a way that you can express and communicate. So it is deeper than that and it does no doubt influence all parts of life. And one of the things that I learned through this process of the. The architecture of coherence, what was going on with me is how. Yet what you can call sexual energy, or kundalini, or life force energy, or chi, is indeed the most powerful energy that exists in the universe is the energy that becomes blocked when we have an unresolved situation that you can call trauma, a blocked emotion, that's the energy that becomes blocked as well. And if you are operating in trauma response, so let's say you are going to have your subconscious programs for surviving in the world, you are not responding. You are constantly reacting. And this does not come from a conscious place at all. In fact, 85% of our lives are lived from these subconscious limbic system part of the brain. Because in fact, this is a much cheaper way of running the brain. For the body takes way, consumes way less energy in order for us to activate the frontal cortex, the logical part of the brain, the presence part of the brain takes a lot of energy. So let's say you learn how to drive. At a certain point you are just driving while you are doing other things. Right. It's the same thing with these survival programs that are always informed by these unresolved stuff that we keep inside. And by inside I mean nervous system. They are kept in our nervous system.
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Right.
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And through the body, throughout the body. And until we don't address those seeds, they are going to continuously define what one can call destiny. But in fact, you are just operating from a fear program. And when we start addressing those, what I call boxes of information that hold this old stuff inside, it is life force, energy, it is kundalini, it is creative power that is liberated together with the mental process of starting to become more present, which means more prefrontal cortex operating with life, which means learning how to respond instead of react, which is freedom, which is truly living alive from a place of co creation, conscious co creation.
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It makes for a more fulfilling life because you are living from the creative rather than the distracted or destructive.
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Yeah. We are creating all the time, unavoidably, consciously or unconsciously.
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And it's better if it's consciously.
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Yeah, yeah.
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How does unlived or banished sexual energy show up in work, in your will, in your creativity and the choices that people think are just practical.
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In so many ways? For example, I'm going to give you one example. Somebody that might have felt rejected, right. As a child, and this has nothing to do with directly with sexual trauma, but they felt rejected by their carers, disperse, and can potentially grow up extremely insecure. They are going to. They can, for example, develop a relationship with life of either becoming codependent or becoming so controlling of their environment because that might be the only way that they can find safety, Right? Yeah. And this can express itself, for example, in overachievement. They have to overachieve in order not to be rejected again. So I'm just giving some examples. This doesn't mean that every person. Right?
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Yeah, that's right.
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So just giving some examples of how these seeds can express themselves in many different ways in a person's life that is not necessarily connected to sexuality. But we all, of course, be expressed sexually as well. Because if this Person doesn't feel secure, they will never be able to fully experience sexuality from an embodied place. The energy will always be in the mind. There is always going to be fear, There is always going to be protection in some way, either trying to please the partner or freezing. Right? Yeah. Some examples only. Yeah.
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When shadow sexuality is running the show, what does it look like in the room before anyone talks about sex?
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I think the main thing, the common thing for doesn't matter what type of sexual shadow exists, is that the energy goes to the mind. People experience sexuality from a mental place, not from a physical place. This can express itself in different ways, like from being from porn addiction or sex addiction or being extremely preoccupied with performance. For men and women, sexual dysfunctions in the incapacity to orgasm, pain during sex, erectile dysfunction, premature ejaculation, numbing, checking out fantasies. Right. Fantasies are completely living sexuality from a mental space.
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Yeah, understood. What happens when that shadow sexuality energy is finally met rather than managed, explained or acted out?
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There is not one answer for that because that can be expressed in different ways. So it might be this deep cry, it might be the whole body shaking, it might be laughing, it might be anger that comes out like it is ultimately a moment where finally that person finds a place where they feel safe enough to access those parts of themselves. Because that initial trauma or repression only happened because first there was no safety to feel. There was no connection with anybody to share or even with oneself. And there was no capacity, no inner capacity to hold that. And I also understand that this is such a beautiful process, talking about evolution, both human evolution as a species and spiritual evolution. Because if there is a peg of a significant situation that was unresolved, we cannot bypass this. We need to keep this inside. Because there is something very important here that needs to be looked at. There is a message here, There is something here that we need to learn from. Right. However, there is such a terror in revisiting that that someone can really only allow themselves to. And I am not saying experience the whole situation again, is not about that. It's really about just allowing that emotion to be felt, to be acknowledged, to be seen. That part of yourself that has been denied, that has been that you are so ashamed of, that you are so afraid of others to see and not love you anymore because of that. So when they, they have permission to be seen for that thing to move physically, several things can happen. But usually is empowering, very empowering. It is healing in ways that go way beyond sexuality. They in learning how to love those parts of themselves and accept that we learn how to love and accept others more. In allowing ourselves to be more authentic, we also allow others to. To be the same. And there is an important layer as well, which is sexuality equals creativity, as we spoke before. Energy of creation equals emotional reality as well. They're all the same. There is no way of starting to feel your body again, to feel pleasure, to experience more expanded levels of pleasure if you are not ready to feel your emotions. Because it is through this process of learning, with tantra, at least, of learning how to consciously and intentionally work with this energy, that these parts of yourself that are numbed and repressed starts to be felt. So emotions, if you. If you think they are not experienced in the mind, they are experienced in the body. When you feel anger, how does your body react? When you feel sadness, when you feel joy, it is your body that experiences it. So, yeah, it's. There is a much, much more accessibility to this emotional body as well. Usually power. These experiences are very powerful. People can get moved by a few days after, for a few days after that. And the work that I offer works, let's say if the inner coherence is the center, I am working from different ends towards this center. So. So there is the psychotherapy, the more neuroscientific understanding of the mind and the nervous system and our psyche. And there is also this work that cannot be replaced by spoken therapy that happens only in the body, through the body that starts to move, to reprogram the mainframe of the person and gives them way more capacity to change the behavioral aspects. The subconscious programs. Yeah, it's super important to having awareness of that. But sometimes you can do 10 years of therapy and not being able to move from that place. You know your systems, but what then? And when you start working with the body, you teach the person how to change their relationship with their capacity to feel whatever those triggers that were triggering the mind and were commanding their life. Yes. It's the changing of this relationship. Right. It doesn't mean that we can change the past, but the shadows don't define who you are, but your relationship with them do. So it is giving this inner authority, this agency, this power back, Empowering them back.
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Rita, you're doing very important work, and I enjoyed everything we've talked about here today. We've only got halfway through all the questions I have for you, so I'm wondering, can we do a part two of this?
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Yes, of course. I would love that.
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Excellent. All right, so we'll wind this one up now. So can you tell all the listeners, how they can find you and learn more about you.
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Sure. Thanks, Chris. Thanks, CJ. My website is probably a good place to go, www.chrysalis tantra.com. my Instagram can also be a good spot. It's Chrysalis Tantra. Although I'm not super active there, you can find the links to. To my website on the Instagram as well. Yep. Those are probably the two best places.
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Excellent. All right, I'll provide those links down in the show notes and I'll invite all the listeners to come back to part two soon.
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Thank you.
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Thank you so much.
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That was really good giving me this space. I really enjoy this conversation with you. Really appreciate.
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Yeah, I really appreciate your sharing, too. It's so deep and I know this is important work. I've done work with a tantric practitioner before, and it woke up my body and my mind connection again. At the time, I didn't believe how numb I was until I was brought back to life. So, yeah, thank you for your work and thank you for coming on. That was a great talk with Rita there. She's. I love the fact that she's been through it, been through the depths of shadow work and Tantra to be able to bring back that information and to be able to share that with us today. Now, if you've liked this one, make sure you come back for the second one. We're going to record that soon. And if you've liked today's episode, remember, if you're on YouTube, like, and subscribe. And if you're on a podcast app, five stars. Be really nice. Say something nice. Say something nasty. Whatever you like. Just say something. I'd like that. And if you're on YouTube, you might want to watch these episodes, too. Thanks for listening. Thanks for watching.
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Today on Super Normalized, I have the pleasure to invite on Rita Anayi. And she's the founder of Chrysalis Tantra, working in Melbourne and on the Gold coast as a psychotherapist, somatic therapist, tantric body worker, intimacy coach and energy healer. After successful career as an architect, interior designer and building biologist in Brazil and Australia, four burnouts and a full collapse under forced her out of a life that looked put together together and into the body she had spent decades leaving. Years of spiritual and esoteric study had not created lasting change. What did was the meeting of psychotherapy, somatic work, a different kind of spirituality she calls visceral and tantric bodywork. Work that she first sought out for intimacy and which also resolved a chronic health condition she had carried for decades. From that lived metamorphosis, she developed the architecture of inner coherence, a way of building life that can actually stand rooted in truth, presence and self responsibility and in the understanding that repressed life force, nervous system patterns and what the body holds will shape desire, intimacy and destiny. Long after the original story has been told, Rita joins supernormalized to speak from that ground. Spirits and ceremony, sexual shadow and the body as a place of talk therapy could not reach. And you can find her work@chrysalis tantra.com welcome to the show, Rita.
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Thank you CJ. Thanks for the introduction as well.
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Now, you call your current relationship with spirituality visceral spirituality. What does that mean in the body and not as just an idea?
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Yeah, this came after many years exploring and practicing spirituality in, you know, more traditional and also non traditional ways. And today for me, spirituality is literally everything. There is no separation between prayer or ceremony or making offerings for guides or whatever. And the way I decide to live my life, presence, how I behave myself when I am driving or what I choose to eat, how I choose to take care of my body, my relationship with money, for example, both how much I understand and allow to receive, how I decide to use it, what I buy with it, what I choose to invest my money in, in terms of what companies I'm going to put my money in, and especially I would say above everything, the things that I do and nobody's watching, the things that I do when I am alone, my thoughts, the motivations behind my choices and my actions, the real motivation. So yeah, for me, visceral spirituality is this relationship with life from a place of understanding that absolutely everything is inherently sacred, that every single person that crosses my path is my master, is my teacher, every plant that I connect with has a Lot of wisdom to share with me. Every animal, it is really embodying life, my body, my thoughts, my emotions, my feelings. As sacred as spirituality, really.
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Yeah, exactly. You mentioned there that things that you do, even when you're alone and not being watched, I mean, I would say that spirits are always watching and our ancestors, and they're like. They're probably just sitting there going, sometimes going, what are you doing?
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Agree.
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Yeah. So when. Where did your relationship with the unseen begin? And what first made it undeniable rather than theoretical?
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Yeah. When I was 19 years old in Brazil, where I come from, I had a very strong experience. I was sleeping back then. We used to live, my mom, myself and my sister in a very small house, had only one bedroom. And we would sleep all together in the same bedroom. I was sharing the bed with my sister and I had this dream. But today, I know wasn't only a dream, but back then was an extremely vivid, real dream where I encountered this woman that in the dream, when she was wearing a burqa, you know, only her eyes were showing. And when I looked into her eyes, I. I knew her. I straight away knew that I knew her. And I felt this immense love and this longing for giving her a hug. And when I started getting close to her, she actually reacted with a lot of anger and she came and tried to grab my throat. And straight away I woke up and I had sleep paralysis for hours. I think this, when I woke up was about three or so in the morning. I believe I had no. I have no real idea. And I was there for hours with my sister laying down by my side and couldn't do anything. I saw the sunrise. And when I woke up, there wasn't much space in my family to talk about these things. And I was just terrified. I was really thinking that I never wanted to sleep again because I was terrified about having that encounter again. And in that afternoon, I was home and the phone rang, the landline back then, phone rang. This was 29 years ago. And when I answered, it was the mom of a friend of my boyfriend back then, like someone very. I knew her, but disconnected from me. And she asked me if I was okay. I said, yep, I'm all right. And then she asked again, like nothing happened last night with you. And then I was a bit in shock and asked her how she knew about that. And she told. Well, one of my spiritual guides told me to call you. And tonight I remember that was a Wednesday. Tonight you should go to the spiritual center and get an energy healing. And you are going to feel better. And so I did. I jumped into the bus and I was there at night and I got the energy healing. They asked me to come back for six more weeks, which I did. Towards the end of that treatment, that spiritual treatment they call it, that they told me that I should join their mediumship and spirituality school, that I had a mediumship that I needed to know how to control, to master how to use in service. And I did. I studied in this school for two years. And the first year my mediumship was completely locked just so I could study the theoretical part of the things, of their. Their theory at least. And from the second year onwards, we were slowly, slowly learning how to channel it. The. The work that they did and they do until now. It's a beautiful work. It's like an er, in the. In the spiritual realm. They rescue spirits that don't know that they have died or many types have spirits of suicidals or religions that don't believe in reincarnation. And we would channel them and it was actually a large group that would give spiritual support and, and yeah, just address them later. So that was my first experience. And during this, not only this first year, I was with that group for almost four years before I moved to a more shamanic type of religion in Brazil called Umbanda. And yet during the time my mediumship started to open and yeah, I could see things. I could. Not only during the channeling, but yeah, sometimes when I allow it, she was really good because then I could also sort of not be open when I shouldn't be open, per se. I learned how to do that, but that was the beginning. Yeah.
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Wow, that's huge. I love the fact that, you know, your boyfriend's mother or aunt tuned into you and went, oh yeah, she needs some help. That's cool.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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So you've lived with guides, obsessors, demons and animal spirits in your direct experience. How do you tell those apart?
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Yeah, The way I would say it is there is an energetic signature. You know, both incarnated beings, humans or non humans, they can try and pretend to be what they are not. You know, words can lie, actions sometimes can lie, but the energy doesn't lie. And over these years I started to learn how to, to discern the energy signature, the energy frequency of these beings. For example, when I am doing a shamanic session and I feel that there is something coming from the person that I am working with, like whether an obsessor or a demon or any type of energy that is more dense, I feel in My body a tiredness. I feel tired and I can almost feel like as if my legs were so heavy. I can feel the density on the lower parts of my body. And then I know how I can address that with my own spiritual guides and spirit animals. It's a long time of relationship with majority of them still. I have new ones that present themselves or that have been with me for a long time. I felt them there, but they never communicated. And then they start communicating with them. It is very much like a friendship. I put aside time and space to sit and willingly connect with them. So I become so familiar with their energy that it's. There is no doubt that it's them right close to me or communicating through me at the same time. About three years ago I started receiving this new consciousness that for the first time I could see her as a very, very old indigenous woman. But I have several spiritual guides that present themselves to me with the archetype of indigenous people. And the frequency of this specific one was different. But still this is how she was presenting to me. And the third time that I was channeling her, when I looked at myself, I had two legs and six arms and I was like, what type of indigenous person are you with all these arms? And then she told me, well, now I can show myself to you as I really am because if I had shown before, you would probably be scared. And then I saw this massive spider in front of me. And she's the most ancient of the ones I would say that I work with. Very, very different energy from all the other ones. She is completely out of duality. I call her, yeah, the, the Great Spider. She's how she presents to me and talks with people and yeah, so sometimes there is this delay and when it's a very different energy as well. I might feel my body takes a while sometimes to be able to connect. I might feel a little bit of nausea or dizz is until over time I can get used with that frequency and communicate more easily.
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I've noticed myself with some spirits that pretty much drink your energy when they come around. I get that heaviness too. And my wife and I, we call them bugs. You know, we've got to get the bugs off because they start influencing you in ways that you don't expect. Like you might just suddenly feel really flat and ordina or start to have really odd ideation which just isn't you. And you notice that you're like, I wouldn't normally think like that. I got a bug. And then you check yourself a bugs you're like, ah, it's a bug. And then you just cast it out and move it on. Because, you know, in the spirit realm, I don't know how we get represented, but they see it as a source of energy, like, oh, let's go over there for a drink. And they don't realize, sometimes they don't realize that they're just having a drink on somebody that's having a life. So, yeah, it's odd, but interesting stuff. So when something is spiritual interference rather than psychological material, what else do you notice in a person or in yourself? I mean, you did mention the heaviness, and I just mentioned then that sort of strange ideation. Is there anything else that's an indicator for you that this isn't their own mind or being?
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Yeah, that's an interesting question, Chris, because to be honest with you, I understand that that's all intertwined.
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Okay.
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The door that connects with these obsessors always opens from within, consciously or unconsciously. Okay. And what I mean by this is there is a frequency. There must be a frequency inside a person that resonates and connects with that external energy. Otherwise there is no key and lock structure. Makes sense.
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That makes sense.
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Yeah, yeah. So we attract them. Yeah, yeah. And with obsessors, this is something that I learned in that first school that I went to when I was 19 years old. There are many different types of them. There are obsessors, for example, if you are addicted to something, if you like smoking, right? Spirits that left the body addicted to smoking, to cigarettes, to tobacco, they will still want to absorb that fluid, per se, and it usually doesn't take long for them to learn the technique of how to do that, how to connect with a human being and not only suck that energy when that person is doing whatever they want or. And also influence their thoughts and desires. And even sometimes depending on the skills, the level of skills that these spirits can have or not, they can learn even how to manipulate certain aspects of reality to foster the situations where the person will feel like either smoking or gambling or what you born, whatever. Right. They have as escape mechanism. So that's one type. There is also obsessors that a person can bring sometimes from lifetimes.
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Yeah, right, right.
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From other lives or parallel realities. And these type of obsessors, they can be with you because of contracts, agreements, or even because they don't like you personally, they hate you, and also because of love. And that's one of the hardest ones to break the connection.
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Yeah, yeah. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Spot On.
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So, yeah, I think it's both. Every time that I disconnect these energies, entities from people, I have a very serious conversation with them about what they do from that moment onwards. Because it's their free will. They can call everything in again if they don't change the behaviors, the thoughts that were opening the door and inviting in.
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Yeah, yep, yeah, yeah. You can cast out all of the spirits you want, but if you keep on basically opening the door, they're just going to come back and attach again and do the same things to you. What has ceremony shown you that ordinary consciousness could not?
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I think it's a level of embodiment and direct experience that transforms knowledge into knowing. In the. When we speak about spirituality and yeah, okay, yeah, it is bringing it to the cells. I would say
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as a part of your work too, you also do channeling. What is actually happening when you do that? And how do you stay discerning rather than becoming absorbed?
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There are two aspects with that. Like, one is learning through experience. First of all, how to switch off the mind. Because it's really when I switch off my mind that I can more and more channel with quality, that the transmission can be more pure. However, at the same time, the more knowledge I have into my. Into my brain per se, the more I know, the more I understand, the easier it is also for the spiritual guides to use that information and put it together in a certain way to tell whatever they wanted to say. And because majority of the times, with rare exceptions, I only channel my own spiritual guides, this comes from these, as I said before, years of relationship developed with them. So it is a level of trust that, you know, usually takes time to happen. And yeah, when I know it's them, I know that they are not only working with the person or with the people who are with me, but they are all also working my vessel, cleaning my vessel.
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And yeah, okay, considering all of your work with the spirit realm, plant medicines, channeling, what does a grounded adult spirituality look like for you today?
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I think it starts going back to the. The coherence that I will talk again when. If we touch on the architecture of inner coherence. You know, if there is no coherence, there is no maturity in one's spiritual path. So by coherence, I mean alignment between the thoughts, the emotions and the actions. So it doesn't. To me, there is not much value if you go and you pray and you, you know, do your duties and you do your processes, I don't know, go to church, whatever, and in your thoughts you are still very much either attached to beliefs that are making you suffer, you live a life based in fear, or you keep judging yourself and others all the time. Right. And yet the actions, because living in a three dimensional reality, if we don't align the actions to doing right, which can have many different expressions, as I said, from what you eat, how you decide to sleep, what you consume, what you decide to consume, also talking about what you listen to, what you watch, the conversations you have, the people that you meet, all of that. There is no way that you are going to be really connected to spirituality from a place that is going to bring real evolution, that is going to really give you freedom, that is going to make you feel empowered to feel, to understand that it's you that is creating your reality all the time. That's always going to happen with a certain type of distortion and you are going to be walking, but doesn't come out of the same place. So maturity for me is really aligning everything.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Self responsibility.
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Yeah, for sure. Yeah. It's like authentic living. Now what would you say to someone who has had a real encounter with spirit or spirits and has never said it out loud?
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Probably I would guide them to analyze why this fear? Why are you so afraid of being seen and being judged? I think to me the siege, the precious lesson would be there in that shadow, the fear of speaking. Yeah, let's, let's go there, let's understand because this is certainly impacting other areas of life and that
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now we'll jump into the architecture of inner coherence. So can you explain from the outside you had a successful life as an architect, interior designer and building biologist. What was the inner structure of that life actually made of?
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I was very much placing my validation, my worth, my identity really to that status or professional positioning of being an architect. I remember I really liked when I was getting to know someone and the moment when I told them, oh yeah, and I am an architect as well and the person would be oh yeah. Oh wow. And that would feed my ego. Yeah, was beautiful. I liked. I really loved working as an architect. To be honest, I wanted to be an architect since I was a kid. I designed my first house when I was 12 years old. Feel very blessed actually. My two careers are both connected with things that I loved. But now I clearly see that the whole architecture path was very much connected to external validation. I would be completely devastated if I received a negative feedback from a client. Like way more than normal really.
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How do you handle negative feedback now then, considering that you've got this new inner coherence.
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Look, it's okay. It's not easy, for sure, being super honest. But at the same time, it's both an invitation to pay attention to whatever that person received as negative, and there is room there for improvement, but also an opportunity to go a little bit deeper and sit with that shadow of mine. Because if it's still somehow affecting me, there is work to be done there. Yeah, my relationship with this shadow has changed a lot.
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I know, from my own work with spiritual work and being connected with spirits and gods and goddesses and everything. There can be a bit of ego inflation involved in that. And that does lead to suffering eventually when you realize that you're just basically blowing yourself up. So I've got to ask, have you actually ever had any experiences like that yourself as well,
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of receiving negative feedback in the spiritual work?
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No, no. More like your spirits or the beings that you're working with inflating you, and you're like, you know, maybe I am the Messiah. You know what I mean?
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It's more the other way around. Oh, wow.
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Okay, so now we're kicking you down.
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My spiritual guides, they keep me on my feet a lot.
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Oh, that's awes.
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Yeah, they keep me on my feet a lot. Especially two specific types of spirits that I work with that are called echus and pompajitas. Yeah. I. Sometimes I make a mistake or repeat the same mistake. Right. And I just listen them laughing at the back. Like, again, I would say that they keep me on my feet a lot.
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That's awesome. They keep you grounded. That's good. So what is inner coherence in plain language? And how can someone tell their inner building is unsound, even if it still looks impressive?
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I would say when there is. When someone has a good foundation, they have the capacity to be present. They are not very reactive to things around them. They are not operating in survival mode, in fight or flight or. Yeah, from subconscious survival programs a lot. They are not afraid to feel emotions. They are familiar with their emotions without being taken by them. And they certainly, certainly have a good relationship with their bodies in terms of being embodied. Both from not exhausting yourself, not keep poisoning yourself in many different ways. They take care of the body. They understand the sacredness of this life vessel as well.
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After your decades of spiritual study, why wasn't that itself enough to stop your own personal life collapse at the time?
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Yeah, I love this question. Because this is exactly what led me to. To create the process that I offer today, which I call the Architecture of inner coherence. Yeah, it had been decades. I had had many spiritual experiences, including plant medicine ceremonies, which were all amazing and had already opened so many doors, so much healing, so much therapies, etc. But still I remember when that happened was the dark night of my soul. It wasn't only the burnout. It was a burnout that collapsed my body so deeply that I stopped producing serotonin. So I went into severe depression. I was diagnosed with severe depression, extremely severe anxiety and extremely severe stress.
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Wow.
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On top of this, I had a severe sciatica crisis. I couldn't walk, I couldn't move, I couldn't sit, stand up from my bed. And that sciatica took more than two years to heal. A relationship that I was in came to an end and I had this completely disconnection from the, the holy spirituality that I was practicing. Because I remember asking myself, how come am I here with everything that I know I couldn't understand? And still I was there. I was suicidal. The only reason, and this is such a beautiful design that I did for my own life, I would say the only reason why I didn't kill myself then was because in that first spiritual course and service that I did that it was channeling. I use it to receive a lot of spirits from suicidal people. And I had been in numerous time to what I call the suicidal valley, which is a collective, creative, created reality where these souls inhabit for a while. Right. And I knew that taking my life wouldn't take me anywhere. And I remember sharing this with my doctor. Right. And yeah, it was over the next three years after that that I could not only start exploring myself through a different lens of psychotherapy, but also start also bringing somatic practices, including tantric body work, but not only, but addressing my body together with all the other things. And I started to woven this interconnectedness. And I was like, wow, there is this, there is there, they relate. And yeah, after a few years after I started working actually with a lot of guidance and help from my spiritual guides, and also being very honest through planche medicine ceremonies, unlocking certain parts of my brain that started working in a certain way that I could as soon as I learned new things. Doesn't matter if it was neuroscience or tantra or trauma work, nervous system work, I could see that they were all speaking about the same thing, just using slightly different terms.
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Wow.
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So I, yeah, I suddenly I started to have this realization of, yeah, it's not, it will never work. It didn't work for me until I could line up all these layers of who I was and really start observing and addressing every single one of them. The coherence. Right. And. Yep. And then I could finally start not only finding my way out of it or out of that dark, really dark night of the soul that I was, but being guided to maybe start offering this. To be honest, I wasn't planning changing career at all. This came from external guidance, spiritual guidance. And I'm glad it did because I'm much happier now than I was before. But yeah, so this is what I offer. Everything that I offer came from my experience, my embodied experience. And it's truly the way that I see us operating. It doesn't mean that is the true or the only truth or the only way, but it's certainly what I can hold space for because I share from an embodied experience field.
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That's huge. Yeah, I'm just mind boggled with that because I've been through really intense experiences where I wanted to take my own life as well. So I completely understand. It's horrific. But you do learn from it. And I wouldn't say it's a good learning to have to go that way, but it happened that way for me too. Now onto your sexual shadow work. It's a foundation that this whole field rests on. Now, I understand that from reading Wilhelm Reich that sexual energy is pretty much the power of the whole universe. And if that's out of alignment, everything is. So why. Why that and not trauma and communication or technique when it comes to deep shadow work?
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Yeah, I think the trauma, communication, they come after, they are not the seed yet they are not the root. The shadow work comes from such an instinctive place. You know, the. The part of ourselves that cannot necessarily be thought in a logical way, rationalize it in a way that you can express and communicate. So it is deeper than that and it does no doubt influence all parts of life. And one of the things that I learned through this process of the. The architecture of coherence, what was going on with me is how. Yet what you can call sexual energy, or kundalini, or life force energy, or chi, is indeed the most powerful energy that exists in the universe is the energy that becomes blocked when we have an unresolved situation that you can call trauma, a blocked emotion, that's the energy that becomes blocked as well. And if you are operating in trauma response, so let's say you are going to have your subconscious programs for surviving in the world, you are not responding. You are constantly reacting. And this does not come from a conscious place at all. In fact, 85% of our lives are lived from these subconscious limbic system part of the brain. Because in fact, this is a much cheaper way of running the brain. For the body takes way, consumes way less energy in order for us to activate the frontal cortex, the logical part of the brain, the presence part of the brain takes a lot of energy. So let's say you learn how to drive. At a certain point you are just driving while you are doing other things. Right. It's the same thing with these survival programs that are always informed by these unresolved stuff that we keep inside. And by inside I mean nervous system. They are kept in our nervous system.
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Right.
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And through the body, throughout the body. And until we don't address those seeds, they are going to continuously define what one can call destiny. But in fact, you are just operating from a fear program. And when we start addressing those, what I call boxes of information that hold this old stuff inside, it is life force, energy, it is kundalini, it is creative power that is liberated together with the mental process of starting to become more present, which means more prefrontal cortex operating with life, which means learning how to respond instead of react, which is freedom, which is truly living alive from a place of co creation, conscious co creation.
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It makes for a more fulfilling life because you are living from the creative rather than the distracted or destructive.
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Yeah. We are creating all the time, unavoidably, consciously or unconsciously.
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And it's better if it's consciously.
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Yeah, yeah.
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How does unlived or banished sexual energy show up in work, in your will, in your creativity and the choices that people think are just practical.
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In so many ways? For example, I'm going to give you one example. Somebody that might have felt rejected, right. As a child, and this has nothing to do with directly with sexual trauma, but they felt rejected by their carers, disperse, and can potentially grow up extremely insecure. They are going to. They can, for example, develop a relationship with life of either becoming codependent or becoming so controlling of their environment because that might be the only way that they can find safety, Right? Yeah. And this can express itself, for example, in overachievement. They have to overachieve in order not to be rejected again. So I'm just giving some examples. This doesn't mean that every person. Right?
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Yeah, that's right.
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So just giving some examples of how these seeds can express themselves in many different ways in a person's life that is not necessarily connected to sexuality. But we all, of course, be expressed sexually as well. Because if this Person doesn't feel secure, they will never be able to fully experience sexuality from an embodied place. The energy will always be in the mind. There is always going to be fear, There is always going to be protection in some way, either trying to please the partner or freezing. Right? Yeah. Some examples only. Yeah.
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When shadow sexuality is running the show, what does it look like in the room before anyone talks about sex?
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I think the main thing, the common thing for doesn't matter what type of sexual shadow exists, is that the energy goes to the mind. People experience sexuality from a mental place, not from a physical place. This can express itself in different ways, like from being from porn addiction or sex addiction or being extremely preoccupied with performance. For men and women, sexual dysfunctions in the incapacity to orgasm, pain during sex, erectile dysfunction, premature ejaculation, numbing, checking out fantasies. Right. Fantasies are completely living sexuality from a mental space.
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Yeah, understood. What happens when that shadow sexuality energy is finally met rather than managed, explained or acted out?
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There is not one answer for that because that can be expressed in different ways. So it might be this deep cry, it might be the whole body shaking, it might be laughing, it might be anger that comes out like it is ultimately a moment where finally that person finds a place where they feel safe enough to access those parts of themselves. Because that initial trauma or repression only happened because first there was no safety to feel. There was no connection with anybody to share or even with oneself. And there was no capacity, no inner capacity to hold that. And I also understand that this is such a beautiful process, talking about evolution, both human evolution as a species and spiritual evolution. Because if there is a peg of a significant situation that was unresolved, we cannot bypass this. We need to keep this inside. Because there is something very important here that needs to be looked at. There is a message here, There is something here that we need to learn from. Right. However, there is such a terror in revisiting that that someone can really only allow themselves to. And I am not saying experience the whole situation again, is not about that. It's really about just allowing that emotion to be felt, to be acknowledged, to be seen. That part of yourself that has been denied, that has been that you are so ashamed of, that you are so afraid of others to see and not love you anymore because of that. So when they, they have permission to be seen for that thing to move physically, several things can happen. But usually is empowering, very empowering. It is healing in ways that go way beyond sexuality. They in learning how to love those parts of themselves and accept that we learn how to love and accept others more. In allowing ourselves to be more authentic, we also allow others to. To be the same. And there is an important layer as well, which is sexuality equals creativity, as we spoke before. Energy of creation equals emotional reality as well. They're all the same. There is no way of starting to feel your body again, to feel pleasure, to experience more expanded levels of pleasure if you are not ready to feel your emotions. Because it is through this process of learning, with tantra, at least, of learning how to consciously and intentionally work with this energy, that these parts of yourself that are numbed and repressed starts to be felt. So emotions, if you. If you think they are not experienced in the mind, they are experienced in the body. When you feel anger, how does your body react? When you feel sadness, when you feel joy, it is your body that experiences it. So, yeah, it's. There is a much, much more accessibility to this emotional body as well. Usually power. These experiences are very powerful. People can get moved by a few days after, for a few days after that. And the work that I offer works, let's say if the inner coherence is the center, I am working from different ends towards this center. So. So there is the psychotherapy, the more neuroscientific understanding of the mind and the nervous system and our psyche. And there is also this work that cannot be replaced by spoken therapy that happens only in the body, through the body that starts to move, to reprogram the mainframe of the person and gives them way more capacity to change the behavioral aspects. The subconscious programs. Yeah, it's super important to having awareness of that. But sometimes you can do 10 years of therapy and not being able to move from that place. You know your systems, but what then? And when you start working with the body, you teach the person how to change their relationship with their capacity to feel whatever those triggers that were triggering the mind and were commanding their life. Yes. It's the changing of this relationship. Right. It doesn't mean that we can change the past, but the shadows don't define who you are, but your relationship with them do. So it is giving this inner authority, this agency, this power back, Empowering them back.
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Rita, you're doing very important work, and I enjoyed everything we've talked about here today. We've only got halfway through all the questions I have for you, so I'm wondering, can we do a part two of this?
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Yes, of course. I would love that.
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Excellent. All right, so we'll wind this one up now. So can you tell all the listeners, how they can find you and learn more about you.
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Sure. Thanks, Chris. Thanks, CJ. My website is probably a good place to go, www.chrysalis tantra.com. my Instagram can also be a good spot. It's Chrysalis Tantra. Although I'm not super active there, you can find the links to. To my website on the Instagram as well. Yep. Those are probably the two best places.
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Excellent. All right, I'll provide those links down in the show notes and I'll invite all the listeners to come back to part two soon.
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Thank you.
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Thank you so much.
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That was really good giving me this space. I really enjoy this conversation with you. Really appreciate.
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Yeah, I really appreciate your sharing, too. It's so deep and I know this is important work. I've done work with a tantric practitioner before, and it woke up my body and my mind connection again. At the time, I didn't believe how numb I was until I was brought back to life. So, yeah, thank you for your work and thank you for coming on. That was a great talk with Rita there. She's. I love the fact that she's been through it, been through the depths of shadow work and Tantra to be able to bring back that information and to be able to share that with us today. Now, if you've liked this one, make sure you come back for the second one. We're going to record that soon. And if you've liked today's episode, remember, if you're on YouTube, like, and subscribe. And if you're on a podcast app, five stars. Be really nice. Say something nice. Say something nasty. Whatever you like. Just say something. I'd like that. And if you're on YouTube, you might want to watch these episodes, too. Thanks for listening. Thanks for watching.
