What If Knowledge Weighs Nothing

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Hello and good day.
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A welcome to the Super Good Camping Podcast.
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My name is Pamela.
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I'm Tim.
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And we are from SuperGoodcamping.com.
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We're here because we want a mission to inspire other people to get outside and enjoy camping adventures such as we have as a family.
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Today's guest is a bushcraft and survival expert.
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He has hosted his own show on the Wild TV Network.
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He teaches in-person and social media survival skills courses and instructional videos.
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He has spent every other week for the last 10 years in the woods learning and honing his survival and bushcraft skills.
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Please welcome Ryan Marshall, author of Fire, Water, Shelter.
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Hey.
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The only thing you guys got wrong is calling me an expert.
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I'm a bit of a goof, but fair enough.
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I appreciate that.
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In some of the some of the research I was doing, I saw something, somebody said you said you are uh an not an amateur, uh intermediate or something along those lines.
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And I went, ah, you know what?
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I he wrote a book.
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He knows what he's doing.
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Um the gentleman that wrote your forward for your book, uh, I've met him, I've chatted with him a few times, and he's he's all behind you.
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And I think he's an amazing bit of business.
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So you're you're something approaching an expert, all right?
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And it's all relative to so we're we're amateurs.
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Yeah.
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I just like I I I I always look back at Cody Lindeen, who's probably like one of the greatest outdoorsmen of all time.
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And when they asked him, Are you an expert?
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Like, how do you classify yourself?
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He's like, Well, there's no course that says you're an expert, and I'm definitely not calling myself an expert.
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So if he's not an expert, I am an amateur because he is like one of the greatest of all time.
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So yeah, I always just I always respected that that he just kind of was like, We're just outdoorsmen, there's no classification here.
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But fair enough, fair enough.
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Well, I mean, I I think it's a great thing.
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That's one of the things I quite most enjoy about the the adventure community is just how how sharing they are, how everybody wants everybody else to succeed at things.
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So they they share their knowledge with with people, and and that's exactly what you seem to be doing.
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And they're humble, yeah.
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That too.
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Well, try you have to be.
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I I think the second you go to the outdoors community and you say, uh, just so you guys know, I'm an expert and I am the greatest thing that's ever happened.
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Uh it's like, okay, yeah, that's it just doesn't roll off the tongue well.
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And uh yeah.
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And then all it takes is nature to to humble you.
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Yes, exactly.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, well, then I'm sure we've all been there.
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Nature does not care if you're an expert or not.
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It just will humble you.
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It will it will knock you to the ground.
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Um, so so I I'm always interested in the bit of the backstory.
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What how did you have you been adventuring forever?
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Or what did like I I got in through sort of scouts and family members and stuff.
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How did you manage to start getting in the backcountry?
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Oh, it like when I was a kid, I was really into it.
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For one of my birthday gifts, I think I was like 10 or something, my dad got me the SAS survival guide, which you know, like there's a lot of stuff in that book that's not really practical, like teaching you how to make a spear to kill a moose.
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I'm sorry, but that's just never good.
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That's just not a real thing.
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Or carrying con get rid of your kid.
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Yeah.
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And then like that book also talks about like carrying condoms to act as water bags, and it's like, you know, that's just not that's you know, but either way, it was intriguing, and I got really into it.
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There was like a period there from like 16 until like 23, where maybe girls were a high priority of mine, maybe more so than the than the going to the outdoors.
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But yeah, from like 24 till 33 now, I guess I've been pretty, pretty into it.
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Uh I what really started the bushcraft survival stuff, so I used to just like going hiking and stuff, was uh I almost died in the bush, uh, pretty severe hypothermia incident.
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And uh that that was a rude awakening.
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I was like, hey, like this isn't a joke, and I probably should learn a little bit of what I'm doing before I end up dead out here.
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You know what I mean?
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So that's kind of where it all started.
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I was interested with the name of the book, if you named it fire, water, shelter in that order for a particular reason.
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Was that the hypothermia incident that was like, okay, we need fire?
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Uh just it's survival priorities, I guess.
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Like, like food isn't really like a survival priority, you know what I mean?
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Like, you do need fire, you do need water, and you do need shelter.
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Those are like pretty much in any survival situation, that's gonna be uh those are absolutely gonna be priorities.
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Or things like I don't know, food, I guess, is a good example.
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It's just it's not really, you know, most survival situations are 72 hours.
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You can skip a couple meals and be just fine.
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Yep, agreed.
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So, so tell me a little bit about the the hypothermia deal.
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You're I I I know a bit about it, but share it.
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All right, so uh yeah, I decided that I was gonna go on this mountain trip with my cousin and a guy that I had just like was gonna meet for the first time on this trip.
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And I, you know, uh I wasn't as humble at the time.
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In fact, you could say I had quite a bit of ego, which I think all men suffer from ego and it's it's bad in the outdoors.
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Like if you uh like I have this challenge I used to do on my page where I'd say, okay, here's a fire starter, start a fire.
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And most guys, to be honest, with natural materials, can't do it.
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It's actually kind of surprising.
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But I was very, very full of myself and I was like, okay, I'm gonna bring out just my less trout kit, you know, my survivor man kit.
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I'm gonna have hundred dollars worth of Walmart gear, no tent, uh, five degree sleeping bag in the middle of winter.
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Uh, you know, it's minus 25 out and just not prepared at all.
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Just regular clothes going up this mountain.
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We're gonna do a couple summits, and I was gonna build these shelters and show these guys that I was the real deal.
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And uh that just went horribly.
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Uh, we were going up this mountain.
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We had checked the weather forecast.
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It was supposed to be fine, but it wasn't, of course.
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The mountains, they just change every five minutes.
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We end up getting trapped in this blizzard that's pretty bad.
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You can't see like five feet in front of you.
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And I'm in full cotton clothes, sweating up this mountain, like you're never supposed to do in the winter.
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And yeah, one bad decision after another.
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We're snowshoeing in the snowpack in the mountains.
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I don't know how much time you guys have spent in the mountains because you're from uh Ontario, where there isn't too many mountain ranges, but I'm sure you've been there before.
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Uh, the snowpack in the mountains can get to be, you know, well over 10 feet.
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Uh, the section we were at is about seven feet.
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So you're snowshoeing, and and when you snowshoe, you don't actually stay on top of the snow.
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You you go maybe only a foot down and then you stop.
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But every time you pick your feet up, you're picking up the entire surface area of that snowshoe full of snow, so it's actually quite the workout.
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To go 100 yards, it's the same effort as you'd normally expend, in my experience, as hiking 400 yards.
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So it's really slow, really time consuming, and you get pretty sweaty doing it.
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So it's getting to be dark on this trip, and we gotta we're like above the tree line, we're sweaty, we're shivering, it's just a real bad time.
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The initial signs of hypothermia are coming in.
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Uh, now I realize that if you can't do this, like you if you can't touch your thumb to your pinky finger, that's your first sign of you should probably stop and take a warm-up.
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You start losing dexterity in your hands, and we start we keep going, keep going.
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And we start getting like really hot, which is also another really bad sign of hypothermia.
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Like we're taking our layers off because we feel like we're hotter than we are.
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That's a severe sign of hypothermia.
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And we finally get to this outcropping of trees after you know being above the tree line, realizing we need to have a fire to warm up, and there's just no option.
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We finally fight for like it takes us probably an hour to get to this outcropping of trees from the point of which we're like shivering and like feel like we're about to die and then getting warm again.
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And we get there and it's all green trees, and it's like, oh man, this isn't good.
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We're you know, a whole day from cell service.
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This is before you know everyone had Garmin inreaches.
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And we get there and we're like, okay, we're just gonna have to make something happen here.
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And on the side of the cliff that well, on this mountain, there's a bunch of like dead scraggly stuff that was growing out of there.
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So we're tying our backpacks to trees because we didn't even have paracord like or rope or anything, and I wrapped the backpack around my hand, and for some stupid reason I brought a parang, which is like a jungle machete, and I'm trying to get this dead scraggly stuff off the side of the mountain to pull it up so that we could start a fire with it, and then burn some of the like the semi-dead stuff that was up there.
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And yeah, like pretty condensed version of the story.
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There's a lot more detail in there that, but yeah, man, it was it was brutal.
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I remember uh the one guy that I had just met that day, he was very, very tough.
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He's like one of those like masculine guys, you know, like it wants everyone to realize like how strong he is.
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Like on the way up, he's dunking his head into icy water and stuff just to show that he could do it.
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Not my thing, but fair enough.
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And uh he looks at us across this this fire we finally get going, and he's like, if you guys weren't here, I'm pretty sure I'd be trying right now.
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And it was uh it was actually kind of funny.
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Needless to say, I just met that guy and he had brought a tent and an appropriately appropriately rated sleeping bag.
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So me and him got to cuddle all night long.
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So uh as far as humility goes, it started right then and there because I realized that uh my ego got me into that situation, me thinking I was something I was not not being prepared and underestimating things.
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And to be honest, the survival stuff was never really something I was that interested in.
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And then you have an experience like that, and it's like, okay, now I need to learn all of it.
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I need to learn as much as I possibly can because that that can't happen again.
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You know, I think I wrote in my book, uh walked up that mountain, uh different man than I walked down it.
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So that was yeah, I definitely included that story in more detail in the book if you guys want, because the thing is, is I don't know, you you gotta show like when you're talking about survival stuff, like or hypothermia or any situation, like I have been there and done that the wrong way.
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I'm telling you, don't do it the way that I did it, you know.
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Like that's there's a reason why I don't call myself an an expert, you know.
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I've made every mistake you could possibly make, I'm pretty sure.
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And I bet you I'll make some more.
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In fact, actually, two weeks ago, I uh you can't really see it too much on the video anymore because it's three weeks ago or whatever, but um, I cut my hand really bad and I almost bled out in the bush.
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Cool.
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So, yeah.
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So the next thing I'm learning is uh I gotta I'm taking my wilderness first responder course actually out in Ontario by you guys.
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I have that booked for the end or the middle of August, I do believe.
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So, you know, identify gaps in your training and fix them.
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Learn.
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Yep.
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That's all I agree.
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Absolutely.
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Uh we I I actually have to renew my wilderness first aid before before the middle of the summer next year.
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So yeah, and that was a thing that like it didn't occur to me until about four years ago.
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I was like, you know what, we're spending more and more time in the outdoors, and and I we I tend to do most of my tripping with our eldest son.
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Uh I'm getting older, he's gonna have to drag my ass out at some point.
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So let's get both of us learned up on how to make sure that you know we don't bleed out and and it off doing whatever, right?
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Oh, a hundred percent.
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What was surprising to me, and what was actually the most alarming to me, was it was just a cut on the hand.
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Like I was just like, oh, you know, we all cut our hands and had like deep bleeds or whatever.
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Whatever, put some pressure on it.
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I realized it immediately was like, Oh, yeah, that's stitches for sure.
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But what was crazy is I started getting closer to the hospital, uh, my heart rate started going like crazy, and then like I'm a cold weather guy, like despite my hypothermia story, like I much prefer the cold than the heat.
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Same.
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And I was like heated seat on in the vehicle, heat cranked, and I was shivering, like putting layers on, like was not a good time, anyways.
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My bought my doctor told me that my body holds about four liters of blood, and I had lost a little over one liter, so 25% of my blood's volume.
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Just from a cut on the hand.
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Uh, the knife went to about, I don't know, probably about an inch, maybe maybe about three-quarters of an inch into my hand.
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And yeah, nerve damage, whole nine yards.
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But yeah, identifiable.
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You know, there's definitely some things that can happen in the bush, and they can happen to anybody.
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I was doing an activity that I do all the time out there, and that's just splitting wood up for fire with my knife.
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Done it a hundred times, the knife got stuck.
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Uh, put a wedge, like a wood wedge in there that I had carved up earlier in there to free up the knife, and it all busted loose at once, and the knife landed vertically.
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But the hand that I was batoning with, which had all my momentum, went right into it.
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Straight into it, yeah.
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And yeah.
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I had done that like I I have done that thousands of times with no issue.
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And yeah, just got bit by it once, and that's all it takes.
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Yeah, well, yes, it happens.
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Uh uh just on a note for that.
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So I was watching some of your your videos and and whatnot, and I saw you use another branch to hold the the log to split it, and it was like, oh my god, that's brilliant.
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I can't believe I never occurred to me before.
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It's always you know, hold it, pull your hand out of the way at the last second and and chop, right?
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Yeah, gambling.
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Uh yeah, yeah, no, it's uh it's really safe.
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It's really one of my favorite ways of doing that, to be honest.
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Because, like, man, if you think about it, like if an axe is designed to chop down a tree, your fingers don't really stand much of a chance.
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There you go, slow it down.
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Nope.
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No, and like I like having 10, you know.
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I it's really done me well having all of them.
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It's easier to count that way.
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Yeah, well, and uh, you know, I need to be able to count two tens, so having all of them really helps for that.
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Ryan, is there some underrated survival skill that you think people really should know before they worry about like whether they've got the best gear or not?
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I would say knots are really like they're not fancy or anything, but they can knots are really handy for putting up tarps and stuff like that.
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Umnots are handy.
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I mean, you should know how to make a fire in wet weather if you're gonna be an adventurer, to be honest, because it's not just gonna be sunshine the whole time you're out there.
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And then actually on the note of fire, recognizing like forest fire problems, like where you should have a fire and where you shouldn't, should be like top of mind at all times.
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Like you, you know, you should be able to recognize wind as being a big problem for that.
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Um, I would, I don't know.
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I don't I think most like uh the flashy survival stuff is is kind of useless.
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Like making like a bow drill fire, I mean, man, it looks pretty cool.
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I'm not gonna lie, but you're never gonna need to know how to do that in real life.
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And you know, I don't know.
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Like Morskouhanski once said that knowledge weighs nothing, so it's good to know how to do that stuff on the off chance that there's you know, you're in a situation where it's like, ah, there's perfectly the perfect wood for this.
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I can get this bow drill going, and you know what, if you absolutely need it, but chances are you're gonna have a lighter in your pocket if you're going to the bush, you know.
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Yeah you don't need to use a feral rod.
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I use a ferro rod because I think ferro rods are really good for learning how to build a fire because you have to have your tinder perfect, everything has to be set up right for that to work.
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So it's just constantly reinforcing the idea of like we need the right setup before we even start trying to light a fire, you know what I mean?
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So it's it's just a good learning tool.
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But yeah, I mean, I carry a lighter.
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Of course I do.
00:16:09.600 --> 00:16:09.919
Yep.
00:16:10.159 --> 00:16:16.559
Um, yeah, I think like just understanding as first of all stuff, don't start wildfires.
00:16:16.639 --> 00:16:18.720
That's that's probably my number one thing.
00:16:52.789 --> 00:16:54.470
Yeah, well, especially at this day and age.
00:16:54.710 --> 00:17:01.189
I mean, just we were talking before we started recording, and it it it's I it baffles me.
00:17:01.350 --> 00:17:04.069
I know we didn't used to have this many wildfires.
00:17:04.230 --> 00:17:05.990
It's just it doesn't baffle me.
00:17:06.069 --> 00:17:07.110
I know why it's happening.
00:17:07.269 --> 00:17:09.350
So yeah, it's unfortunate.
00:17:09.590 --> 00:17:10.789
It's very unfortunate, man.
00:17:11.750 --> 00:17:13.350
Yeah, I was just thinking.
00:17:13.430 --> 00:17:19.750
Oh, it's so so what you mentioned not I carry three lighters and a ferro rod just because nice fair, fair.
00:17:19.990 --> 00:17:28.950
Well, because something I tend to do almost exclusively canoe stuff, so something's gonna dump at some point, especially now we're playing with more white water.
00:17:29.269 --> 00:17:33.110
I so I've got one in this pack, one in that pack, and one in another pack.
00:17:33.190 --> 00:17:35.029
One of them's gonna be dry at the end of the day.
00:17:35.190 --> 00:17:38.150
Um I actually have you're talking about knots.
00:17:38.389 --> 00:17:44.789
I actually have an app on my phone from from somebody you know, um, that teaches knots.
00:17:44.950 --> 00:17:46.230
And I thought, what a cool idea.
00:17:46.389 --> 00:17:47.990
So I could I can travel with it.
00:17:48.150 --> 00:17:48.549
That's great.
00:17:48.789 --> 00:17:51.029
Yeah, I yeah, the bare essentials knot app.
00:17:51.109 --> 00:17:52.069
I actually have that too.
00:17:52.230 --> 00:18:04.470
Because I when I go to work, uh, I have to catch a plane to work all the time, and I keep like a six-foot piece of paracord in my backpack just for the flights, and I just teach myself new knots because knots are one of those weird things.
00:18:04.629 --> 00:18:09.430
Once you learn like six or seven knots, you can learn any knots.
00:18:09.589 --> 00:18:19.109
Like it's at first it's it's really tricky and you're not understanding it, and then once you get like a few in there, it's like your uh propensity to learn new knots is just through the roof.
00:18:19.190 --> 00:18:25.430
You can literally learn a new knot in less than a minute, like you can just watch it and go, yep, okay, got it.
00:18:25.670 --> 00:18:27.269
So I actually use that app too.
00:18:27.349 --> 00:18:28.150
It's pretty handy.
00:18:28.309 --> 00:18:56.309
It's uh you can never know two little knots, especially like if you're out there and you're adventuring, like man, like hanging up bear bags, joining two pieces of rope together, you know, because that happens more often than you need, you know, actually securing something to like a canoe for your case or uh something into your backpack, you know, lashing stuff together if something breaks, you know, or you know, your backpack strap goes, being able to tie that on in a secure fashion, just all that stuff.
00:18:56.389 --> 00:18:58.069
Like knots are really, really handy.
00:18:58.230 --> 00:19:02.309
And don't even get me started on knots for tarps because you could go on that forever.
00:19:02.549 --> 00:19:04.950
Like that's yes.
00:19:05.430 --> 00:19:10.389
We have spoken to a few people that are just it's like, or we could do this, or you could do that, you could do this.
00:19:10.470 --> 00:19:11.190
It's like, oh okay.
00:19:11.430 --> 00:19:13.349
This means you can adjust it in this mini game.
00:19:13.670 --> 00:19:22.150
Yeah, and it's just like, holy holy, like you start getting into like the thousand different ways you can tie a prussic and which way is the best, and like four, it's like, oh, okay.
00:19:22.230 --> 00:19:30.549
Like, I I am not I'm not a knot expert by any means, but I probably know 25 or 30 knots, and man, I don't know.
00:19:30.710 --> 00:19:34.150
Like, knots are definitely something that you should uh you should be practicing.
00:19:34.389 --> 00:19:38.309
Yes, well, that's why I got the app because knots are my my kryptonite.
00:19:38.470 --> 00:19:40.470
They're the that's my weak spot in my game.
00:19:40.549 --> 00:19:41.269
Big thought.
00:19:41.509 --> 00:19:42.950
Well, I'm glad you only have one.
00:19:43.029 --> 00:19:45.109
I have so many weak spot times.
00:19:45.990 --> 00:19:50.710
I am trying to identify them all as I go, but I just ignore the other ones.
00:19:50.950 --> 00:19:51.589
Yeah.
00:19:52.230 --> 00:19:53.670
Yeah, no, a hundred percent.
00:19:53.829 --> 00:19:54.789
I I don't know, man.
00:19:54.869 --> 00:20:05.750
It's you'd be that app's actually actually kind of handy too, because like just being able to have something just on your phone that's on you all the time that doesn't need data, man, that thing is actually pretty awesome.
00:20:05.990 --> 00:20:14.230
Yeah, well, and and I wanted to do that because I've got I've got his bare essentials, his little tin kit that you can tie tie the knots with as well.
00:20:14.389 --> 00:20:16.309
Um, but I don't know.
00:20:16.470 --> 00:20:27.589
I I was having trouble just sort of absorbing it, and I started to mess around with the app, and it's like, oh, I this will this will sink in way better for me, and then I can play with the kit afterwards.
00:20:27.910 --> 00:20:35.990
Do you know uh do you know a fair amount of knots or like do you just kind of I I do lots of like hitches, single hitches?
00:20:37.589 --> 00:20:50.230
Man, yeah, if you learn the bowline, the clove hitch, man, honestly, you can pretty much get everything done with a bowline, a clove hitch, and I don't know, like a tauntline hitch.
00:20:50.309 --> 00:20:53.990
If you know those three, you can do pretty much everything that you need to do in the outdoors.
00:20:54.150 --> 00:20:57.430
Not as well as you could if you learn more knots by any means.
00:20:57.589 --> 00:21:03.349
Like there every knot has a specific kind of use, but I mean a bowline's like the world's strongest anchor knot.
00:21:03.430 --> 00:21:08.150
So anytime you gotta tie something together, that's bowline is just amazing for that.
00:21:08.470 --> 00:21:13.029
Clove hitch, anything circular, so if it's a you're tying to a tree, it's great.
00:21:13.190 --> 00:21:18.150
And there's no lack of trees in the outdoors, they'd all often get to like anchor stuff too.
00:21:18.309 --> 00:21:21.589
And I mean taunt line hitch for setting up ridgelines.
00:21:21.750 --> 00:21:24.710
I mean, man, you you can get so much done with that.
00:21:24.950 --> 00:21:25.990
Yeah, I know.
00:21:26.230 --> 00:21:27.829
Stop yelling at me.
00:21:29.750 --> 00:21:47.190
I assume when you're when you're doing your outdoor adventure stuff, uh, you run into I I certainly do where you know a piece of gear breaks or you get into a situation that's not necessarily one you've been in before, so you you end up in a MacGyver moment.
00:21:47.509 --> 00:21:50.549
Do you do you have any sort of favorite things?
00:21:50.710 --> 00:21:56.869
It was like, oh yeah, I we came up with this duct tape and blah blah blah, and it and it solved the issue.
00:21:57.349 --> 00:21:58.629
You know, it's kind of funny.
00:21:58.710 --> 00:22:01.190
Uh I ran it, I was the first time.
00:22:01.430 --> 00:22:15.029
This is you know, in retrospect, it's pretty obvious, but the first time I was camping in really heavy rain for like, you know, I go up for a week at a time, but you know, I was just keeping the fire going was kind of a pain in the butt.
00:22:15.109 --> 00:22:22.549
And like I was splitting the wood up to get this off with a dry on the inside, and it was just taking forever, and it wasn't really lighting because everything was not only raining but damp.
00:22:23.029 --> 00:22:26.470
Hand sanitizer is great.
00:22:27.109 --> 00:22:32.869
It's so good, man, because like you can wash your hands after you go to the bathroom with it, and it's like one of the world.
00:22:33.589 --> 00:22:34.629
Best fire starters.
00:22:34.869 --> 00:22:39.269
You gob it on there and it lights right up, and man, it burns for like quite a while.
00:22:39.349 --> 00:22:41.750
It's like having like an alcohol stove on your fire.
00:22:42.069 --> 00:22:42.470
Cool.
00:22:42.710 --> 00:22:49.670
And it's you know, a little just a little container of it's good for a week of washing your hands after the bathroom and lighting fires.
00:22:49.750 --> 00:22:51.430
It's it's one of my favorite.
00:22:51.829 --> 00:22:52.629
That's excellent.
00:22:52.710 --> 00:22:53.029
Yeah.
00:22:53.269 --> 00:22:54.789
I don't know that I would have thought of that.
00:22:55.190 --> 00:22:58.710
I know that you're for referring your book to natural adhesives.
00:22:58.950 --> 00:23:01.910
What do you what do you use for natural adhesives?
00:23:02.389 --> 00:23:05.829
Oh man, I think actually, if you give me a sec here, you'll see.
00:23:05.990 --> 00:23:16.789
Speaking of MacGyver moments, so if you look at my pot here, you'll see with all this like black stuff around the the edge, the my pot actually broke the other day.
00:23:16.869 --> 00:23:20.230
The screw came out, and I actually made glue in the outdoors.
00:23:20.309 --> 00:23:24.950
I don't know if you can see that very well, but I made glue in the outdoors to actually glue that back on.
00:23:26.230 --> 00:23:28.710
Like pine sap resin something.
00:23:29.109 --> 00:23:30.710
Yeah, pine sap resin.
00:23:30.789 --> 00:23:36.710
It's actually it's the recipe's kind of gross, but it's pine sap resin, charcoal, and ungulate turds.
00:23:37.670 --> 00:23:39.349
What's an ungulate turd?
00:23:39.910 --> 00:23:43.349
An ungulate is an as an animal that eats grass.
00:23:43.589 --> 00:23:50.710
So when they eat grass, the grass pretty much passes through and it'll act as like rebar inside of concrete.
00:23:50.950 --> 00:23:52.309
So it gives it structure.
00:23:52.470 --> 00:24:03.910
But here's the thing I know that's gross because you you're grabbing turds out there, but when you bake it on the fire, the pine sap boils, and everything inside of that just makes it it's perfectly clean.
00:24:05.349 --> 00:24:06.549
That's excellent, yeah.
00:24:06.869 --> 00:24:11.750
Yeah, so it gives it like a lot of rigidity and like it'll act as like a pretty decent glue.
00:24:11.990 --> 00:24:17.190
Um, you can also use birch tar, but that takes way, way, way longer to make.
00:24:17.269 --> 00:24:22.950
And the thing about making birch tar is sometimes it works, and sometimes for whatever reason, it just doesn't.
00:24:23.109 --> 00:24:27.269
If your fire is not the perfect temperature, yeah, it just won't work.
00:24:27.430 --> 00:24:29.190
It'll just burn off and you won't get it.
00:24:29.269 --> 00:24:32.069
And it's all buried underneath ground when you're making it.
00:24:32.150 --> 00:24:35.190
So, like, there's no way to check to see how your progress is going.
00:24:35.349 --> 00:24:36.710
You just kind of gotta guess.
00:24:37.029 --> 00:24:42.230
It's kind of a pain in the butt, but it is fun to make, and it they use it a lot in like colognes, actually.
00:24:42.309 --> 00:24:47.109
They take like the birch tar and like it's a really aromatic, nice smell to that stuff.
00:24:47.190 --> 00:24:52.869
So it's plus, it's satisfying when you finally nail it and it's like you got like two inches of tar and oil in there.
00:24:53.029 --> 00:24:55.910
You're like, I am the man, you know.
00:24:57.589 --> 00:24:58.230
Did it?
00:24:58.869 --> 00:24:59.910
Yeah, it's awesome.
00:24:59.990 --> 00:25:08.869
I uh I don't know, like natural adhesives are one of those ones that I wouldn't put that as uh to go back to our earlier question about like what skills should you learn right away.
00:25:09.109 --> 00:25:15.829
You know, that one has saved me a couple of times, you know, because you can make glue just when you're out there, and it's actually surprisingly strong.
00:25:16.150 --> 00:25:20.389
But you know, there's there's more important stuff that a guy should focus on at the beginning.
00:25:20.549 --> 00:25:22.069
But again, knowledge weighs nothing.
00:25:22.150 --> 00:25:30.309
The more stuff we learned, the uh more we can have and have a McGira moment, as you put on when we're out there, and just yeah, I know how to deal with right now.
00:25:30.549 --> 00:25:32.230
You know, it's kind of fun.
00:25:32.470 --> 00:25:32.950
Cool.
00:25:33.269 --> 00:25:54.389
Um, well, so so so you've been learning, you've been teaching, for lack of a bet a different way to put like I mean, I know you do you do uh courses as well, but uh obviously the world that we live in, uh I see a lot of it on social media stuff, whether it's Instagram posts or YouTube posts or you know, whatever.
00:25:54.549 --> 00:25:57.910
Uh is that did you want to sort of collect it?
00:25:57.990 --> 00:26:02.309
Is that what the impetus for um writing the book was?
00:26:02.389 --> 00:26:05.190
Or or maybe that's the better question, is what was?
00:26:05.349 --> 00:26:07.190
What what launched you in that direction?
00:26:07.670 --> 00:26:11.190
I had no intention ever of writing a book.
00:26:11.349 --> 00:26:21.349
Uh the what why I wrote a book is someone uh like the publishing company reached out and they're like, hey, have you ever thought about taking all these tips and putting them into a book?
00:26:21.509 --> 00:26:23.430
Because we'd love to work with you on that.
00:26:23.829 --> 00:26:29.990
And I don't know, like this is gonna sound kind of weird, but I I like I'm just like a guy, you know what I mean?
00:26:30.069 --> 00:26:43.430
Like I'm not like I'm not a bear grills or a less Stroud, I'm just a guy who likes to go to the outdoors, so like the opportunity for me to write a book, like it was like, yeah, I'm gonna if if you're if you'd be into that, sure, yeah, I'll I'll put these down.
00:26:43.750 --> 00:26:50.470
It was just kind of a cool thing to do, and like, you know, I was just you know, make the mother proud, you know, kind of thing.
00:26:50.629 --> 00:26:53.589
That's yep, that's that's kind of what the impetus for that was.
00:26:53.750 --> 00:26:59.430
It wasn't like I had this master plan, and a lot like I am organized chaos at best.
00:26:59.589 --> 00:27:04.950
Like my life is just like I don't know, like I don't have any plans.
00:27:05.029 --> 00:27:09.670
Like, I I really should start making them because I see people who have plans and it's working out well for them.
00:27:09.750 --> 00:27:13.029
I just yeah, I gotta start doing that actually.
00:27:13.349 --> 00:27:15.509
But uh right now, no, there's no plan.
00:27:15.589 --> 00:27:18.549
This is see what happens tomorrow, I guess.
00:27:18.629 --> 00:27:20.629
Like that's that's kind of where we're at right now.
00:27:20.950 --> 00:27:25.349
That's why, like, yeah, well, it's here's hoping I figure it out eventually.
00:27:25.509 --> 00:27:27.589
But yeah, so well, yeah.
00:27:27.750 --> 00:27:33.910
I I'm a few years older than you, and I don't have it figured out, so well, that's reassuring.
00:27:35.589 --> 00:27:40.309
Sorry, but yeah, no, it's uh I don't know, it was kind of a cool experience.
00:27:40.629 --> 00:27:50.309
Yeah, well, so so what it must I can't imagine it was a fast experience, and then like I I can't fathom writing a book.
00:27:50.389 --> 00:27:57.829
Like, I just I can't I can make a bunch of like you know, brief little little uh bullet point notes, but how how do you then flesh that out?
00:27:57.990 --> 00:28:01.109
And oh man, it's terrible, it's a terrible process.
00:28:01.269 --> 00:28:12.230
Like it's it's uh I uh was so worried that I was gonna put something in there that was like just even like a little bit factually inaccurate or something that might get someone hurt, you know what I mean?
00:28:12.309 --> 00:28:19.269
So it was that was it was pretty heavy experience, and like man, I didn't realize how bad I was at spelling.
00:28:19.509 --> 00:28:21.349
You know, I went to go write a book.
00:28:21.509 --> 00:28:27.910
You write up a paragraph, and then there's all these squiggly red lines on your computer, and it's like, all right, well, that's just not good.
00:28:28.069 --> 00:28:38.549
I honestly think that Microsoft's spell check has more actual words in that book than I do because every other word I had to click on it, and like they had to actually put the word in there for me.
00:28:38.789 --> 00:28:40.869
So that too was actually pretty terrible.
00:28:40.950 --> 00:28:44.549
Uh um, but no, I just like I don't know.
00:28:44.629 --> 00:28:53.029
Like I wanted that book to be for beginners and intermediate people, and then still have some like more like a couple of hints on advanced skills in there.
00:28:53.269 --> 00:28:56.710
Like we talk about um oh what is that called again?
00:28:56.869 --> 00:29:08.389
When you pasteurize water, for example, which is like a way of treating water without having to boil it, which is like a very, very, very like advanced survival skill that like not many people know about.
00:29:08.950 --> 00:29:20.629
But I you know, I didn't I hint on that so that people who like to stuff like that and give that a little bit of explanation so that like the actual quote-unquote experts can pick up the book and be like, oh, that's kind of an interesting way of looking at that.
00:29:20.789 --> 00:29:41.190
But for the most part, the goal of the book was to take someone who spends all their time in the city or just wants to get into camping, or even they camp a little bit and want to amp it up and talk them through the basics of like here's what you do in this situation, here's how you pack a bag, here's how you you know research your trip.
00:29:41.269 --> 00:29:47.589
Here's like it's it's a strong emphasis on planning so that you don't end up in a survival situation.
00:29:47.670 --> 00:29:49.109
That's really what the book is.
00:29:49.349 --> 00:29:54.950
And then, like, there's a lot of you know, tips and tricks throughout there, like you know, fire.
00:29:55.029 --> 00:30:06.069
We cover all the different ways of lighting fires, all the natural tenders, uh, what different fire lays are good for like if you want to cook, you know, how to build a reverse fire.
00:30:06.309 --> 00:30:11.509
If you're in an actual survival situation, how to build a long fire to stay warm all night, stuff like that.
00:30:11.829 --> 00:30:19.990
Um, you know, water, we talk about so many different water purification methods and different gear you can use and what's safe and what isn't.
00:30:20.150 --> 00:30:54.470
And then we talk about tarp shelters and modern tents and backpacking tents, and we talk about hot tents and building shelters and like how to build a debris shelter, and how to build, yeah, just all all the basics of you know your 72-hour survival situation, fire, water, shelter, and we go into other stuff too, like gear and all that, but there's strong emphasis on fire, water, shelter, and then in the last chapter is called uh campcraft, which is where like I just go out a bunch of projects that you could do around camp that make you look like a rock star in front of your friends.
00:30:54.710 --> 00:30:57.029
That's uh we go through that stuff.
00:30:57.670 --> 00:30:59.509
Yeah, shh, don't tell anybody.
00:30:59.750 --> 00:31:02.549
Yeah, it's like I I knew this, I got this.
00:31:02.710 --> 00:31:04.710
I'm gonna build a cooking train, yeah.
00:31:04.869 --> 00:31:07.109
We find some Y branches and we're good to go.
00:31:07.349 --> 00:31:08.230
Yeah, exactly.
00:31:08.309 --> 00:31:08.470
Right.
00:31:08.789 --> 00:31:12.389
So the other thing that piqued my interest in the book was about foraging.
00:31:12.629 --> 00:31:15.509
Um do a lot of that while you're while you're out there.
00:31:15.750 --> 00:31:17.190
Oh, I I love foraging.
00:31:17.269 --> 00:31:27.750
It's so cool when you can, especially the type like foraging for food is one thing, but it's so cool to like be able to make something from what's around you.
00:31:27.910 --> 00:31:29.670
That is like so cool.
00:31:29.750 --> 00:31:46.230
Like, like when you learn how to make like the glues or you know, birch tar for like sealing stuff, or I don't know, like there's making rope from nature, like or even like making an entire salad from just stuff that's around you, like that is just like the coolest feeling.
00:31:46.309 --> 00:31:52.389
Like, you know, I try I don't say it out loud, but every time I do it, I'm like, oh yeah, I'm kind of cool.
00:31:52.710 --> 00:31:55.829
But but yeah, no, it's it's it's it's fun to do.
00:31:55.910 --> 00:32:02.470
Like, I don't know, like so many people look at like survival stuff as like, oh, this is like one of those prepper guys or something like that.
00:32:02.549 --> 00:32:06.150
And I'm not really like I don't think anybody should be ashamed of being a prepper.
00:32:06.309 --> 00:32:11.589
Like, I think if you have some extra water and food in your house for a natural emergency, that's probably a good thing.
00:32:11.829 --> 00:32:17.750
I don't think it should be demonized by any way, but like also I'm not a prepper, you know what I mean?
00:32:17.829 --> 00:32:20.470
Like, I just think going out there and doing this stuff is like a ton of fun.
00:32:20.629 --> 00:32:27.430
Like originally when I was getting into it, I was like, I went with that whole preparedness mindset, but now it's just it's fun to learn this stuff.
00:32:27.589 --> 00:32:39.109
You know, you know, you go through if you rub two sticks together and make a fire with it, it's like that castaway moment with Tom Hanks when he does it, and he's just like and it's you know, that's it's all the time with that stuff.
00:32:39.190 --> 00:32:47.750
It's just anytime you learn a new skill or you you see you have a your success in the bush is measurable and quantifiable with your eyes.
00:32:47.910 --> 00:32:55.029
You can see that you did something that's working, and it's instant gratification, and it's uh it's just rewarding.
00:32:55.190 --> 00:32:55.829
I love it.
00:32:56.069 --> 00:32:56.470
Cool.
00:32:56.629 --> 00:32:59.029
That's a great, that's a great way to look at it.
00:32:59.349 --> 00:33:00.470
Yeah, I I hope so.
00:33:00.629 --> 00:33:01.829
Anyways, that's how I look at it.
00:33:01.910 --> 00:33:03.269
It'd be kind of funny if you're like that.
00:33:07.269 --> 00:33:07.990
You suck.
00:33:08.069 --> 00:33:09.589
We're not doing any more of this.
00:33:11.029 --> 00:33:11.990
Who is this guy?
00:33:12.069 --> 00:33:14.869
Like he's right, he is just a guy.
00:33:14.950 --> 00:33:16.389
Like this guy is terrible.
00:33:16.869 --> 00:33:26.629
No, it is everybody that I think it's a great thing that A that you continue to make mistakes, because otherwise there's there's no there's no more learning.
00:33:26.710 --> 00:33:29.990
And if you're not learning, it's it's kind of pointless.
00:33:30.150 --> 00:33:32.309
Like, I don't you're stagnating, yeah.
00:33:32.389 --> 00:33:33.509
You're yeah, 100%.
00:33:34.710 --> 00:33:35.190
100%.
00:33:35.589 --> 00:33:36.309
So I'm glad about it.
00:33:36.470 --> 00:33:40.470
And like I I am making mistakes all the time.
00:33:40.710 --> 00:33:47.509
Like, I I in fact, if that's a good thing, man, I am killing them with the amount of mistakes I'm making.
00:33:47.750 --> 00:33:50.950
Like it's it's doing well.
00:33:51.109 --> 00:33:51.990
Yeah, no.
00:33:53.029 --> 00:33:54.950
I'm learning, we'll say that.
00:33:55.349 --> 00:33:56.710
Well, no, that's good, man.
00:33:56.789 --> 00:33:57.269
That's good.
00:33:57.349 --> 00:34:00.069
That's uh that there's no point to it if you're not learning.
00:34:00.230 --> 00:34:07.910
Um, if you don't mind me asking, how long what was the the length of the process from from starting to publishing?
00:34:08.230 --> 00:34:10.630
Oh man, uh about a year.
00:34:10.789 --> 00:34:20.309
Because like I find that like when you people get emotionally attached to ideas, and you gotta figure out a way of separating yourself from that.
00:34:20.710 --> 00:34:26.710
So, and what I mean by that is like if you write something and then you immediately look at it, you're gonna go, no, I just wrote it.
00:34:26.789 --> 00:34:27.590
That's that's great.
00:34:27.670 --> 00:34:29.110
That's that's exactly what I meant.
00:34:29.349 --> 00:34:37.990
Or in reality, once you get a little bit away from it and you come back to it, you can see like, well, you know, I actually don't agree with that a hundred percent.
00:34:38.230 --> 00:34:55.190
So, like what I would do is I would write for three or four hours a night or one night, and then the next night I would go back and look at that three or four hours I wrote before, and I would look at it through a different set of eyes, and I'd edit it down so that I was, you know, it was all just a hundred percent legit.
00:34:55.429 --> 00:34:55.909
You know what I mean?
00:34:55.989 --> 00:35:03.349
Like, it wasn't like, well, this is you know, no chance for that ego to stick in there and just be like, or give anybody misinformation, you know what I mean?
00:35:03.590 --> 00:35:13.670
So yeah, it's about a year, and then like I didn't realize like when I agreed to do my own photography, oh man, that was jeez.
00:35:14.070 --> 00:35:15.349
That was a mistake.
00:35:15.989 --> 00:35:30.710
Yeah, that was thank god my girlfriend's pretty talented with a camera, because like, man, I am not like yeah, it was uh that was a process, and I thought that was gonna be the fast part.
00:35:30.789 --> 00:35:34.230
I'm like, well, now that all the writing's done, this will just, you know, just take a picture.
00:35:34.389 --> 00:35:38.630
And I should have like, yeah, I should have thought, well, have you ever done that before?
00:35:38.869 --> 00:35:41.190
Why would you think that this is gonna go well?
00:35:41.349 --> 00:35:45.349
And yeah, so it did go well eventually, but it took some time.
00:35:45.429 --> 00:35:49.590
It took like six months of that process was just arduous.
00:35:49.670 --> 00:35:50.469
I'll say that.
00:35:50.550 --> 00:35:54.070
It was just, yeah, trying to get those pictures, those photos, that was difficult.
00:35:54.789 --> 00:35:55.429
Wowzers.
00:35:55.670 --> 00:35:56.230
Wowsers.
00:35:56.469 --> 00:35:57.509
Yeah, about a year.
00:35:57.829 --> 00:35:59.030
It was a lot, yeah.
00:35:59.269 --> 00:36:04.630
But you know, it uh I am pretty stoked with how it all turned out, to be honest with you.
00:36:05.030 --> 00:36:11.110
Yeah, well, I haven't read the the whole thing, but I have been skimming through and then I catch myself reading a bunch.
00:36:11.190 --> 00:36:13.110
It's like okay, but I don't really have time.
00:36:13.349 --> 00:36:18.949
Um but I but I quite enjoyed what like I like your style, your delivery style to it.
00:36:19.110 --> 00:36:33.829
And you don't there's not a I what I always think that sort of instructional books uh have a bit of a finger wagging thing going, like make sure you don't make sure, yeah, you you don't have that tone, which I quite liked.
00:36:34.070 --> 00:36:40.469
Yeah, the whole thing is like, man, there's no such thing as never do this in this or in an outdoor situation.
00:36:40.630 --> 00:36:47.509
Like there's like the the okay, it's like if I was to say an axe is better than a machete.
00:36:47.829 --> 00:36:58.949
Well, in what situation, you know, in the boreal forest in the jungle, like you know, or if it's you know, never like there's there's very few things where you just never do it, you know.
00:36:59.030 --> 00:37:08.070
It's like a good example of that is let's say your car breaks down in the middle of winter and you're stuck on the side of let's say you're an old logging road.
00:37:08.309 --> 00:37:13.190
Well, the general rule of thumb is you stay with your vehicle until you're discovered.
00:37:13.349 --> 00:37:27.829
Well, what happens when if it's the winter time and your vehicle runs out of gas and you have no food, and you're like there's one of those old logging roads, weeks can go by before people can like at some point you're gonna have to move.
00:37:27.989 --> 00:37:31.190
Like it's move if it's move or die, well then there you go.
00:37:31.269 --> 00:37:35.429
It's it's that whole always stay with your vehicle thing is just that's not true.
00:37:35.509 --> 00:37:36.389
There's no absolute.
00:37:36.710 --> 00:37:42.389
So, like to write in my book all these absolutes, like it's no, it's just it's just silly.
00:37:42.550 --> 00:37:44.230
There is no finger wagging.
00:37:44.309 --> 00:37:47.509
It's listen, you're out there on a choose your own adventure.
00:37:47.750 --> 00:37:50.230
Here's some tools that might help you along the way.
00:37:50.389 --> 00:37:56.550
Here's a bunch of tips and tricks that you know, if you what for whatever decision that you decide to make, these could help.
00:37:56.789 --> 00:37:59.349
But you know, that's that's kind of where I was out with that.
00:37:59.429 --> 00:38:08.309
I just you know, I don't like that whole I don't like the idea of like absolutes because there's the the outdoors is not a binary problem set, it just isn't.
00:38:08.550 --> 00:38:10.230
It's full of gray area.
00:38:10.550 --> 00:38:12.150
There are tons of variables, man.
00:38:12.869 --> 00:38:13.829
Oh, a hundred percent.
00:38:14.070 --> 00:38:14.789
Yeah, for sure.
00:38:14.949 --> 00:38:15.670
All right, Ryan.
00:38:15.750 --> 00:38:17.110
So this has been a great chat.
00:38:17.190 --> 00:38:18.309
I've really enjoyed this.
00:38:18.469 --> 00:38:23.429
Uh I love the I love what I am am reading in the book.
00:38:23.509 --> 00:38:25.509
I'm I will finish it, I promise.
00:38:25.829 --> 00:38:33.269
Um it's called Firewater Shelter, uh, a guide to modern bushcraft skills for surviving, enjoying the great outdoors.
00:38:33.429 --> 00:38:35.110
Um, where can they get it?
00:38:35.590 --> 00:38:43.429
Uh yeah, if you look at anywhere you buy books, indigo, amazon, uh, Barnes and Noble, all that stuff, they all will have it.
00:38:43.590 --> 00:38:46.230
I think even actually a lot of the Walmarts have it right now.
00:38:46.389 --> 00:38:46.630
Cool.
00:38:46.789 --> 00:38:49.909
So yeah, you can just yeah, fire water shelter.
00:38:50.070 --> 00:38:52.869
If you Google it, you'll be able to find it pretty easy.
00:38:53.110 --> 00:38:53.909
All right, cool.
00:38:54.070 --> 00:39:03.269
And and if anybody wants to uh you know have a peek at what what you're doing in your in your second job, uh what where where can they find you?
00:39:03.349 --> 00:39:05.349
Like the Instagram and YouTube and whatnot.
00:39:05.670 --> 00:39:07.909
Uh yeah, just it's all Marshall Bushcraft.
00:39:07.989 --> 00:39:14.789
And anywhere that you're looking for videos, you can find me posting videos because you know, I'm again I'm organized chaos.
00:39:14.869 --> 00:39:15.829
It's just a scatter effect.
00:39:15.989 --> 00:39:17.909
I'm like, oh maybe, maybe it'll work over here.
00:39:18.070 --> 00:39:18.949
Like I just, yeah.
00:39:19.110 --> 00:39:20.389
So Marshall Bushcraft.
00:39:20.630 --> 00:39:21.989
That's that's how you find me.
00:39:22.230 --> 00:39:23.110
All right, sweet.
00:39:23.349 --> 00:39:23.909
Perfect.
00:39:24.070 --> 00:39:28.869
Thanks so much to our special guest, Ryan Marshall, author of Firewater, Shelter.
00:39:29.110 --> 00:39:34.710
And please do check him out on all of the things under Marshall Bushcraft.
00:39:35.110 --> 00:39:35.269
Yep.
00:39:35.670 --> 00:39:40.949
And you can find us on everything as well at the same time, super good camping.
00:39:41.190 --> 00:39:45.349
And if you want to reach out to us anytime, we are at hi at supergoodcamping.com.
00:39:45.429 --> 00:39:47.670
That's H I at supergoodcamping.com.
00:39:47.750 --> 00:39:48.789
And we will talk to you again soon.
00:39:49.349 --> 00:39:49.509
Bye.
00:39:49.829 --> 00:39:49.989
Bye.