WEBVTT
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Welcome back to our coverage of the 2026 UTMB World Series Finals.
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This episode is a two-part or first.
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I am joined by Brett Horning to preview CCC, and that is followed up by an interview with Tony McCann, a CCC and OCC champion who's lining up again at CCC this year.
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Our coverage of these races is made possible by Norda Precision Fuel and Hydration and Raid Research.
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Norda is the footwear partner of our coverage.
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Their latest shoe model, the 5-5, was worn by Rachel Entriken and route to her course record victory at Cocodona in May, and again by Jimmy Elam for his second place finish at this year's Hard Rock 100.
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Proven in the field, go check them out at NordaRun.com.
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Precision Fuel and Hydration is the nutrition partner of our coverage.
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They have 17 pros lining up across UTMB races next week.
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Familiar names include Rachel Entrikken, Dan Jones, Caleb Olson, Chris Myers, Rachel Drake, Tyler Green, Eli and Tabor Heming.
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They'll also have eight members of their staff embedded in the crews of these athletes.
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Go check them out.
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It's the best sports nutrition on the market, and feel free to use code SingleTrack at checkout for 15% off.
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Raid Research finally is the equipment and apparel partner of our coverage.
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They'll be set up at Sanglard Sports through August 29th, demoing many of their 2027 products.
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And they'll also have current products like their LF5L Vest for sale.
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Also of note, one of their top athletes, Henriette Albin, is racing UTMB next week in a debut kit of theirs.
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Go check out everything at raidresearch.com.
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Hey everyone, we are back.
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It is Friday, August 21st, and it is another day of coverage of the 2026 UTMB World Series Finals.
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We've got some nice ambiance here.
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We've got the window open in our studio, and it is absolutely downpouring in Shaman right now.
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Brett, you were talking yesterday about how uh the mountains are big, but the weather is big here too.
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I don't know how I would operate with just this much steady, like big ol big ol' fat rain, as Forrest Gump would say, uh just coming down.
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I every I mean it woke me up multiple times last night with our metal roof and how hard it was coming down, and all I could think about was I last year, you know, it started raining around 8 p.m.
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at UTMB last year.
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I was like, I cannot imagine just being on my way around Mont Blanc having to navigate the trails in the dark, fog, clouds, then this kind of weather coming down.
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But like we had talked about in the UTMB preview episode, and kind of goes with CCC and OCC, but you have to be really experienced with your kit, which I always think about like probably the goat of dialed in kit, Francois Dain.
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Yes.
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He was always had the perfect layering set up, he knew exactly what he needed for which temperature and always was able to make the right decisions.
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And that's one of those things where I feel like the the year after year experience of just being out here in the valley would pay dividends so much later.
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Because I was just thinking, I was like, dude, if I was a rookie out here on an UTMB, I would have been I'd be I'd be terrified if I wasn't already out here for you know a month prior.
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One of these years at UTMB, I would love for Conversational Pace to do some sort of uh series around mandatory gear kits, and like you just go, like you and Francois sit down, and it's like, okay, you look through his kit for UTMB, you and Hans sit down, you and Marianne sit down, you and Ruth sit down.
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That would be to the extent that they'd be willing to share and walk through their decisions, that'd be fascinating.
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Well, yeah, because I always, you know, on the especially on the elite side, you always hear about like trying to get everything as light as possible, but there's a cost to that in terms of it actually being functional or not, you know.
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If we've got like our lunch lady plastic gloves, it's like, yeah, my hands are dry, but they're also frozen.
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Um it would be cool to figure out what is actually the perfect blend of lightweight but still truly useful gear for this race.
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We talked with Caleb a few days ago, and that was sort of the thread he was trying to needle.
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I think I asked him, like, you know, are you counting grams?
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He's like, to some extent, yes, but also like I at UTMB, at CCC, you learn pretty quickly that like you do need to use this stuff too.
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It's not it's mandatory for a reason.
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So yeah.
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Yep.
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Okay.
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Uh some station identification here, some housekeeping.
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First, this is our CCC preview episode.
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Yeah.
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Our last episode, our UTMB preview, we forgot to do a proper celebration, but it it was our 500th episode of single track.
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This is episode 501.
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So can't believe we forgot.
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Can't believe we forgot.
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Congrats to 501.
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Congrats to 501.
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Um and yeah, do us a favor on when this CCC episode goes live, either drop it on the UTMB preview or this one.
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Uh, leave a comment letting us know your favorite episode over the years and why.
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It's actually crazy.
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I raced CCC back in 2021, and that was my intro to UTMB.
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That month, August, also coincided with the first ever episode of Single Track.
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Was that Debo?
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It was with Debo.
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Wow.
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Which is amazing.
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And so, yeah, there's just a it's it's kind of a full circle moment, which is pretty cool.
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But um, Brett, let's let's get into CCC.
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There are a lot of storylines.
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The first one for you, the most compelling.
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Okay, this is well, I guess before we get into this some storylines, I guess just like a little the elevator pitch of CCC.
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So starts in Cormayer, makes its way to Chamonix, 100 kilometers, 62 miles, about 20,000 feet of gain.
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Sorry, I didn't write down the the metric, six sixty something thousand meters.
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High point of the course, 8,300 feet, going up and over the Grand Colfera.
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Super golden ticket race.
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Super super got to six.
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Six well, yeah, three on each side.
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Twa ticket.
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That's always an interesting one.
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Um you know, we kind of talked about this every year before how do we feel about CCC being a golden ticket race?
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A lot of people come here to race CCC.
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How many people are actually here to get a golden ticket?
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What's like the double dip factor?
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Um, do you looking at these entrance lists across either the men's or women's fields, do you see much for names that are like an obvious I'm here because I'm just trying to get a golden ticket?
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There's a couple people.
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Hans is the obvious one because he has been on the record talking about it.
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But then looking at the Americans specifically, I believe Eric Lapuma would absolutely take one.
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I believe Tim Reed, who had an amazing performance at Black Canaan earlier this year, would take one.
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I have to believe Gavin Pryor would, Kellen Bloomberg, some people that I'm not sure about, Eli Hemming, Dakota Jones, Zach Perrin, Adam Loomis.
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Some of these guys, like, I just don't know where they're at in their careers in terms of like, do I want to stay more so in these like true mountain races, or do I want to do Western states?
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On the women's side, uh, I mean, yeah, you and I love to have like the running thread of like, does Helen Mino Faulkner reject another ticket?
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Yeah, uh, which is such a baller move.
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We love it.
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Uh Claire Rhodes, Danny Moreno.
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I mean, here's another one.
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Sarah Albin.
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She got third at Canyon's 100k earlier this year.
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She declined her ticket to focus on CCC.
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And now she's in CCC.
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Does she what's what's her calculus?
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Yeah, maybe she's like, I gotta beat Helen Mino Faulkner in ticket turndowns.
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Uh well, I mean, what do you think?
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What's obvious to you?
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Or what's what's interesting?
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It's still and and I think this is a good thing.
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CCC still feels like it's the priority reason for why most people are here.
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And like a happy accident of a great CCC is the opportunity to go to Western states if you want to.
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But it it feels like CCC is the championship race.
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Which then it's then that always just brings up the debate.
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Like, well, if this is the championship race, why is it a qualifier for something else?
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Exactly.
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I know.
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But I don't know.
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I don't mind talking about the additional dynamic that it brings to the field.
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I I do think part of it does still encourage late-stage racing and you know seventh place, more important at CCC than at UTMB or OCC.
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I guess I've always been surprised over the last few years that this hasn't been more of a parallel independent track in the sport, at least on the North American scene.
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I feel like the elites have been invested in both the UTMB pathway and the Western pathway, whereas if you look back into like the early 2010s and the years when it was like the Scott jerks of the world were like the Western States crowd and the Carl Meltzers and the Jared Campbells were like the hard rock crowd, like those were like two totally different camps, and the crossovers were rare and few and far between.
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I'm surprised that there's in this day of age more crossover, at least among the Americans, between those two.
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Because they're as we're seeing here, as you've been here now for a couple of days, this is a totally different environment than Western states.
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Totally different.
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It is.
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I do feel like the Western states CCC double is one of the ones that more athletes have shown is possible than any other combo with Western states, you know, like Western states UTMB, Western States Occ.
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There have been athletes who have succeeded at both of those.
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But there have been more athletes who have not.
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And Western State CCC is closer in terms of time on feet that you race leading into another race that's similar time on feet, similar amounts of elevation, similar effort that you put out.
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It's just a different uh profile of race.
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So I I I see why we get so many athletes focusing on both.
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And you know, you like you said, like there's there's the American bias too.
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And I don't know what like European professional contracts look like.
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Like how do these brands emphasize bonuses at something like Western states over CCC?
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But I know that there's a huge financial incentive to do Western states for most of these American athletes.
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And there's equal or greater financial incentive to also do CCC.
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So then it's hard to, I don't know, looking at it from the lens of a professional athlete who needs to make a living in this sport, if it's easier to do Western states if you're going to get paid a lot of money to do it.
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One of the stated goals of the Golden Ticket series when they expanded outside the U.S.
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was that they wanted to give, they wanted to create more opportunities for international athletes to race close to home into Western.
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And like we talked with Tony McCann a few days ago, and she's based out of Annecy.
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And I I believe she is looking for a ticket possibly this time around.
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And you know, her her thinking is look, this is this race is 90 minutes from my house.
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This is like a backyard race, this is the perfect form.
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But but I would, and maybe this is like a Travis at Free Trail question, or it's it's an aid station fireball question.
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Because at UTMB when it was a golden ticket race and CCC when it was a golden ticket race, there have been a lot of drop downs.
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There has there has been a lot of movement in terms of like the top three don't necessarily take their tickets.
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Yeah.
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When it comes to like Americans who have gotten those spots or Europeans or other international athletes, I would love to know the stats around like who has forfeited those tickets.
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And more often than not, has it been international athletes who are like, I don't actually care that much about Western states versus I mean, like I know like if like Drew declined it last year and it rolled down the Jesh, but like historically, since these two have been in play, what's that been like?
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Like are they actually using their opportunities?
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Yeah, yeah, definitely.
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And I know I think that that lends to the championship nature of CCC.
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This race is way more than just a golden ticket race.
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If it weren't a golden ticket race, we would still be doing a preview about it.
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It would still it would still have this deep of a feel.
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Yes, that's a good point.
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If if this wasn't a golden ticket race, are there any names that you have written down that you don't think would be on it?
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Because I feel like most of these people would still be running the race.
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I don't think that the golden ticket, the presence or the presence or non-presence of a golden ticket has any impact on who's on these star lists.
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People are here because it's CCC.
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It's its own end still.
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Yep.
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Yeah, I agree.
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Let me okay.
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I created lists of like the top Americans, male and female, that are lined up here.
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I want to go through the Americans first, and I want to get I want to get your read on like the the general takeaway from these groups, whether you think that they're like podium contenders for the win, top ten, like just generally first what you think.
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So on the men's side, we've got Adam Peterman, Hans Troyer, Eli Hemming, Dakota Jones, Kellen Bloomberg, Tim Reid, La Puma, Gavin Pryor, Adam Loomis, Zach Perrin.
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Those are like the top guys on the American side.
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As a group, what do you think about their potential?
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As a group, it's it's um I would say it's a pretty wide range.
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You know, we have someone like Adam Peterman who's podiumed this race.
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We've got you know, big people who finished with like I was Eli, Adam, Dakota, Eric La Puma have all finished within the top ten of this race before.
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Yep.
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And then we have a handful of very good Americans who are I I imagine they would be seeing this as an opportunity to like springboard themselves.
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Um like like maybe Gavin Pryor should go off the front.
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Yeah.
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Get that airtime, get that airtime, too.
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Like this this why not?
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It's an opportunity.
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There's a ton of eyeballs on this race.
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So many people watch CCC.
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I would just remind people that this is precisely where Caleb Olson built the early stages of his career, 21 and 22.
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I think in 22 he was the top American here.
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Yeah.
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And that was sort of the springboard for confidence, momentum, you know, storybook after that.
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Yeah.
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I mean, if you can if you can make a name for yourself, you know, out here that's people are brands, every every brand is here.
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It seems like every time I walk downtown in Chamonix, one of these storefronts is now a commercial for a new brand, and whatever was there originally year-round has decided to go on vacation.
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I think I think I think this entire group is capable of breaking into the top ten.
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If I had to get more specific, I think Adam, Hans, and Eli are the guys that can get there to the podium.
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You know, Eli seventh last year.
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Adam has already had a podium here.
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Hans, I believe, is a superstar, so I think it it just warrants that belief, although he is new on the European scene.
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The big, the big dark horse, I think, in this American men's group is Zach Perrin.
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He's uh maybe one of the more like unsung members of that Missoula training group, runs alongside Jeff McGavaro, Adam Peterman, McKenna, Jen, great talent, Ranit Boulder.
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He just hasn't like popped off.
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Hasn't popped yet.
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But like I think it I he he he trains with those guys.
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So I mean, I just think being in that environment, it's gonna it's gonna be there at some point.
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Do you think a race like CCC has an easier or harder barrier to entry in regards to success as a non-professional?
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We've talked about this at Western States where being a professional runner where you can really dial in, like you can have two crews all the kiddie pools of ice, blah blah blah.
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Like that's an advantage.
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There's less of that here, yeah, but there's definitely more of an experience element.
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But is it almost easier then in a way?
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For is it is it more level, like more even because there's less outside help at a race like that?
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I see what you're saying.
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Yeah, like everyone is kind of left to their own devices, there's no pacers.
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Um, it's a much more ruthless environment than like a Black Canyon.
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Is CCC is is like UTMB week actually the series of races where the random ballers should be at?
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It's pretty democratic.
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I think it's it's one of the most democratic environments to have success.
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I think the tough, the tough thing about UTMB week in general, and I think CC CCC specifically, is you can have an amazing race here and finish 21st.
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That's definitely the big caveat.
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You can have an amazing it on pay like it is an amazing race and it gets lost in the sauce.
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For sure.
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Yeah.
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You yeah, maybe it's more even, more democratic in regards to the resources out there, but you have to have an even better race than at most other races.
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Okay, this women's contingent uh from the American side, Jen Lichter, Robin Lesh, Helen Mino Faulkner, Sarah Aliban, Claire Rhodes, Danny Moreno, Lindsay Allison, Aaron Clark, Jenna Besco.
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That's a Yeah, that's a legit.
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Do we know yet if Claire Rhodes is going to race?
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Okay, so for the audience that doesn't know, she was attacked by a bear on a training.
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Like a week ago.
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Like a week ago.
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Which again, like thoughts, hope she's doing okay.
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It sounds like she was able to get out of it with I mean, bites.
00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:04.240
There was bite marks, I think.
00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:09.680
It was like it was like either like one deep bite or one deep claw mark somewhere in her leg.
00:18:09.920 --> 00:18:13.119
Which And obviously the psychological trauma that comes with that.
00:18:13.359 --> 00:18:14.480
That's the biggie, yeah.
00:18:14.559 --> 00:18:16.160
I mean that yeah.
00:18:16.400 --> 00:18:22.960
And you know, obviously health first, we wish her the best, but um, if she's here, she's she's one of the best in the sport right now on the American side.
00:18:23.200 --> 00:18:23.680
100%.
00:18:25.440 --> 00:18:27.839
Yeah, there's I mean, I'm trying to think.
00:18:27.920 --> 00:18:35.920
I was like, I think the I think there's potential for more American women to be in the top ten than American men.
00:18:36.400 --> 00:18:42.000
Okay, because my my thought was that historically had amazing performances at CCC on the American women's side.
00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:42.720
True.
00:18:42.880 --> 00:18:51.119
I mean, I was thinking from this women's group that we're more likely to see somewhat a winner out of this group, but less likely to see the depth of the top ten.
00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:58.559
I think on the men's side, we have more American men who are going to try to win the race.
00:18:59.039 --> 00:19:03.839
As a result, there will be less American men in the top ten, but there might be a winner.
00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:12.640
Whereas on the women's side, there's you know, I would say Jen Lichter is one of the absolute favorites to win this race.
00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:25.759
And I'm curious if, you know, like Danny, Robin, Helen, will they be at the very, very front of that group?
00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:37.119
In your mind, is is Jen, do we defer to Jen as much in this race because of her 2026 season as we would for Tobey heading into OCC?
00:19:37.279 --> 00:19:39.440
Like, is she that automatic, do you think?
00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:45.519
Yeah, I mean, at this point, I feel like yes.
00:19:45.680 --> 00:20:06.240
I mean, we're looking at it, Jen, like if we go back to last year, you know, course record at Speed Goat, unfortunate DNS at worlds, but then that led into massive course record of Black Canyon, massive course record of Western states.
00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:12.480
Like you win those two in course records, especially Western states.
00:20:13.440 --> 00:20:16.240
I am absolutely because we talked about this after Black Canyon.
00:20:16.319 --> 00:20:21.680
We're like, okay, after Black Canyon, do we put Jen in the if she's on the star line?
00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:28.720
We're talking about will we're not talking about will she win, but we're talking about how could somebody beat her?
00:20:29.920 --> 00:20:33.839
I think I said let's revisit that after Western States.
00:20:34.319 --> 00:20:40.640
Now that Western States happened, I think that's absolutely the conversation now for CCC.
00:20:42.319 --> 00:20:47.200
How does somebody beat Jen at CCC?
00:20:47.599 --> 00:20:48.799
I think she's that good.
00:20:49.599 --> 00:20:52.000
Same with Tobey for OCC.
00:20:52.559 --> 00:20:58.960
One storyline that makes sense to throw in here, I wrote down was will we see a big result out of Helamino Faulkner?
00:20:59.279 --> 00:21:04.799
From 2023 through 2025, I would argue she was one of the best on the American scene.
00:21:05.119 --> 00:21:17.119
Tough worlds last year, and I I don't think that the results so far this year are representative of her talent, but she's podium tiered before, and it was back in 2023, and that season was ridiculous.
00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:18.559
It was kind of like a gen season.
00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:23.920
Big win at Speed Goat 50K, ran like 609, won the broken arrow 46k.
00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:28.319
I can't remember the time exactly, and then that CCC win.
00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:33.440
So, like in a three-month stretch, it was broken arrow of speedgoat CCC, just amazing.
00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:38.319
Um and I think she's focused on like this does seem to be the thing that she's peeking for.
00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:52.000
But yeah, you talked about just like the pedigree of some of these American women, and you know, I think if you had asked me back in 2023, like, is Helen on the trajectory to win this event one day, I would have said yes automatically, and I still think it can be the case.
00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:59.440
But uh yeah, I think like even if Jen is that sort of like you defer to Jen, she's sort of that automatic candidate.
00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:02.960
Uh, I think Helen can be right there too.
00:22:03.519 --> 00:22:05.039
Yeah, I agree.
00:22:05.279 --> 00:22:11.680
And, you know, the the biggest argument for Jen is just the more recent A plus race results.
00:22:11.920 --> 00:22:12.559
Yes.
00:22:13.119 --> 00:22:24.079
And, you know, we've talked about this before, too, is you know, not only do you have to improve if you want to win this race, you know, you have to get better than you were the year before, but the sport is also progressing.
00:22:24.160 --> 00:22:29.839
So you have to figure out how to get better at a faster rate than the sport is naturally progressing.
00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:33.599
And that seems to be getting increasingly harder to do.
00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:34.240
Okay.
00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:41.680
Next thing here Western States crossovers, just to name a few: Dan Jones, Tomak Harden, Adam Peterman, Hans Troyer.
00:22:42.160 --> 00:22:44.240
Talked about Jan Lichter earlier.
00:22:45.279 --> 00:22:46.160
Let's talk about this.
00:22:46.240 --> 00:22:56.720
Like I think you mentioned earlier that uh you like this, you you might like this Western State CCC double a little bit more than you like that and the UTMB double, or it fits better.
00:22:56.960 --> 00:23:03.440
I think it fits better in terms of taking the training from states and turning it into training for CCC.
00:23:03.839 --> 00:23:09.039
You know, of course, it you still have the recovery aspect from Western states no matter what.
00:23:09.200 --> 00:23:20.160
And I don't even I don't think that it's easier to run CCC after Western states because if you're ready to run, if you're ready to race, you're ready to race.
00:23:20.319 --> 00:23:30.480
I think the the part that's harder for something like UTMB is you have to do actually quite a bit different training to get ready for a 20-hour race.
00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:34.880
Whereas this one's just a few hours shorter than Western states.
00:23:35.359 --> 00:23:39.920
Also because the similar effort, you you don't have to there's not as much hiking.
00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:44.880
I mean, I think Hayden, the last year he won, he ran just about every single step.
00:23:44.960 --> 00:23:50.079
Um, like looking at Estrava, there was no hike blips, and if it was, it was just like a few steps.
00:23:50.240 --> 00:24:00.400
So we're getting to the point where you're not walking much of CCC anymore, which is kind of insane, but like that's just that's just where the sport's at.
00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:05.039
And you know, you're not no one no one's walking Western states anymore either.
00:24:05.200 --> 00:24:08.799
So that's at least one thing that you don't have to worry about nearly as much.
00:24:08.960 --> 00:24:14.319
Francesco uh Francesco Poopy won CCC without polls.
00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:14.640
Yep.
00:24:14.799 --> 00:24:16.799
Hayden's won CCC without poles.
00:24:17.680 --> 00:24:21.680
You don't have to use polls at CCC if you're looking to win this race.
00:24:21.920 --> 00:24:27.200
So that's one less thing that you have to figure out between states and and now.
00:24:28.480 --> 00:24:39.599
The so yeah, like on the men's side, the the four main western states doublers, Hans and Dan Jones, they're coming off of DNFs.
00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:46.400
We've al I've always been curious how much a DNF can help or hurt recovery.
00:24:46.480 --> 00:24:48.640
I think a lot of that comes down to like the reason for the DNF.
00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:50.799
Maybe more physically, fresh mentally.
00:24:50.880 --> 00:24:53.839
You're worried mentally, like, are they any do they lose any confidence?
00:24:54.160 --> 00:24:55.759
Yeah, you take a big mental hit.
00:24:55.920 --> 00:25:03.839
Physically, you might be better because you only put in like 60 miles in the legs or 65 plus 10 of walking.
00:25:04.079 --> 00:25:08.079
But then you have someone like Tomas, who got fourth, ran 1407.
00:25:08.160 --> 00:25:13.519
It states, everyone said he looked amazing, you know, the next day afterwards, even all the way through the race.
00:25:13.599 --> 00:25:15.279
We saw him and he looked fantastic.
00:25:15.359 --> 00:25:17.599
He didn't look like a zombie out there.
00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:24.240
So we put in the full hundred miles of effort, but maybe no big bonks.
00:25:24.319 --> 00:25:27.039
You know, you do a big nutritional bonk, that slows down the recovery.
00:25:27.119 --> 00:25:32.000
So maybe Toma's actually gonna recover at the same rate as someone who dropped out at Forest Hill.
00:25:32.319 --> 00:25:39.279
I would love to know the hit rate for if if you DNF, especially if you DNF Western.
00:25:39.920 --> 00:25:45.839
Or we could even throw in the category of people like Adam a few years ago, who tufts it out and you know ran around 24 hours.
00:25:45.920 --> 00:25:52.480
Like that cohort of people, what is their hit rate if they run it back at CCC or UTMB or OCC?
00:25:52.720 --> 00:25:53.039
Yeah.
00:25:53.200 --> 00:25:57.359
Like, is there actually some sort of benefit there of calling your race early or not?
00:25:57.440 --> 00:25:57.839
You know?
00:25:58.160 --> 00:25:58.559
Totally.
00:25:58.640 --> 00:25:58.799
Yeah.
00:25:58.960 --> 00:26:02.160
And and then there's all four of you.
00:26:02.240 --> 00:26:13.200
So Hans, Dan, Tomah, Adam, they all could have just not run a single step between Western states and now, and they're for sure healthy, they're for sure fresh, but now you're not fit.
00:26:13.839 --> 00:26:14.720
Let me ask you this.
00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:16.240
Okay, let's let's do so.
00:26:19.359 --> 00:26:23.599
Fantastic races this year at Western, Hans and Dan, DNF.
00:26:23.680 --> 00:26:27.279
So you've got the DNF camp, you've got the camp that had a great performance.
00:26:27.599 --> 00:26:32.319
Which group do you think is do you suspect will have a better result at CCC?
00:26:33.200 --> 00:26:37.359
I'm gonna go with the the Toma Adam camp.
00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:38.000
Okay.
00:26:38.559 --> 00:26:49.200
I I think the Adam as well finished Western states off really good vibes, didn't appear to be fully trashed afterwards.
00:26:49.519 --> 00:26:50.240
No, definitely not.
00:26:50.400 --> 00:26:54.319
And that that that's not to say he didn't race Western states all out.
00:26:54.480 --> 00:26:55.279
I know he did.
00:26:55.599 --> 00:27:13.200
But in today's age of running, if you race all out and you do the nutritional part correctly, the footwear has gotten so much better, the hydration's gotten better, your recovery is faster because you are already kind of jumpstarting the recovery process during the race.
00:27:13.599 --> 00:27:21.519
You do recover from these races better when you are not super glycogen depleted for the last eight hours of the race.
00:27:21.839 --> 00:27:29.599
So I'm gonna go with Toma and Adam over Hans and Dan for those reasons.
00:27:29.839 --> 00:27:31.200
Two more storylines here.
00:27:31.279 --> 00:27:41.599
First, three former champs on this start line: Tony McCann from 2024, Ingvilde from 2023, and Yao Miao from 2018.
00:27:42.160 --> 00:27:48.799
Brett, of these three former champions on the women's side, who you put the most stock in and why?
00:27:49.039 --> 00:27:54.000
I also want to acknowledge that up until like two days ago, we had four former champions.
00:27:54.240 --> 00:27:57.519
Yes, Martina Milnarchik is no longer on the start list.
00:27:57.759 --> 00:28:02.079
Yes, she disappeared from the start list last last night or two nights ago.
00:28:02.480 --> 00:28:02.880
Yeah.
00:28:03.119 --> 00:28:08.559
Um but we have three former champions.
00:28:09.759 --> 00:28:16.640
I did not even realize that Meow Yao had won CCC eight years ago.
00:28:17.039 --> 00:28:18.000
2018.
00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:18.559
Yeah.
00:28:18.799 --> 00:28:21.519
And then went and won OCC twice in the early 2020s.
00:28:21.680 --> 00:28:27.599
Yeah, Meow Yao has had a almost as a dynamic of career arc as Dakota Jones.
00:28:27.839 --> 00:28:28.160
Yes.
00:28:28.319 --> 00:28:37.680
Um, a lot of people don't do long stuff early, go to short, go back long, and then like go short again.
00:28:37.839 --> 00:28:42.079
You just don't see that rise it with the success as well.
00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:48.880
Meow Yao has been the best in the world at almost everything she's decided to do.
00:28:49.200 --> 00:29:00.880
So I one can only hope that well, I'm I'm very excited for the Meow Yao Gen Lichter rematch from Gorge uh to CCC.
00:29:02.240 --> 00:29:06.240
We'll talk about yeah, we should dive into like who you give the advantage to there.
00:29:06.799 --> 00:29:10.960
Um I would love to see Meow Yao Western States too.
00:29:11.440 --> 00:29:11.759
Yes.
00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:14.160
I think that would be sick.
00:29:15.680 --> 00:29:22.000
But it seems like so Jen beat Meow Meow at the Gorge 50k.
00:29:23.359 --> 00:29:27.039
But Miao is a CCC champion.
00:29:27.440 --> 00:29:28.720
She knows how to win this race.
00:29:28.960 --> 00:29:30.720
And she's very familiar with these tricks.
00:29:31.039 --> 00:29:33.839
2018 broke 12 hours, which that was a big deal eight years ago.
00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:34.240
Yeah.
00:29:34.400 --> 00:29:35.279
That was a big deal.
00:29:36.319 --> 00:29:41.359
So from an experience standpoint, I'm picking Meow Yao over Jen.
00:29:41.759 --> 00:29:50.880
From a recent results and just like momentum standpoint, I think I would give I would give Jen the edge over Meow Meow.
00:29:51.359 --> 00:29:57.039
I think from this former champions group, I definitely have the most stock in Meow.
00:29:57.759 --> 00:30:04.160
I, you know, we we had Tony in studio a few days ago, and Tony appears to be in a great headspace.
00:30:04.319 --> 00:30:10.160
Obviously, he's a very talented runner, and you know, huge, huge, huge win here back in 24.
00:30:10.240 --> 00:30:14.799
I think alongside Helamino Faulkner, like that 2023 to 2024 stretch was just fantastic.
00:30:15.359 --> 00:30:28.880
The only question I really have about Tony is like the motivation to be here because I know she talked at the end of the year in various podcasts just about like maybe just being a little burnt out on like the UTMB World Series treadmill.
00:30:29.119 --> 00:30:35.039
So it's really hard to find like the motivation and the excitement to come back here a second time, let alone third time.
00:30:35.119 --> 00:30:37.359
And that's not uncommon among top athletes.
00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:51.440
I mean, you know, Caleb's talked about that with Western states and stuff, but uh I do think that that stuff does go a long way or matters a lot when everyone on that start line is so physically talented, and you it really does come down to like self-belief and how much drive you have out there.
00:30:51.519 --> 00:30:53.440
So I think that's my only asterisk for Tony.
00:30:53.519 --> 00:30:57.920
Although I will say if you go listen to that interview, you don't find any evidence that that's still the case.
00:30:58.000 --> 00:31:01.119
Like I think she does seem excited to be here and has found a good why.
00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:02.400
Absolutely.
00:31:02.640 --> 00:31:08.559
Other question mark is Ingvil Kasperson and how recovered is she from States?
00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:14.720
Because we were talking about, you know, just like we had talked about with the the four men who have run who are doubling back.
00:31:15.039 --> 00:31:21.279
Ingvil nearly put in the full distance of Western States and had to unfortunately drop.
00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:21.440
Yeah.
00:31:21.680 --> 00:31:23.680
So that's like kind of the double wham we dropped.
00:31:23.920 --> 00:31:25.200
Did she drop at Roby Point?
00:31:25.440 --> 00:31:35.680
Well, so she dropped at No Hands Bridge and then got driven to Roby Point to mark the official drop because there is no spot, there's no one to notify a No Hands.
00:31:35.920 --> 00:31:47.599
So it on paper, it looks like she dropped at Roby Point, but her like it sounded like her body and her legs like completely quit on her at that point.
00:31:47.839 --> 00:31:52.079
So yeah, you just have to wonder like what was the recovery time from that?
00:31:52.319 --> 00:31:54.960
How well are you able to get the legs back under you?
00:31:55.119 --> 00:31:56.960
So big question mark there.
00:31:57.200 --> 00:32:10.799
We know that the ability is there, you know, looking at uh Herchianti performance, going toe to toe with Courtney and Rachel, yep, right in that big trio.
00:32:10.880 --> 00:32:15.279
So it's like you have a performance like that, you're looking at winning this race.
00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:15.680
Yes.
00:32:16.880 --> 00:32:26.559
So yeah, that's it's not too often do we get people who are worse at losing?
00:32:28.319 --> 00:32:32.000
You know, it's like you don't get that many people that win the majority of their races.
00:32:32.079 --> 00:32:38.720
And we have like at least four women in this race who normally win, they are used to winning.
00:32:39.279 --> 00:32:41.519
So how does that dynamic play out?
00:32:41.680 --> 00:32:48.559
Like, who who do you see as the one taking the reins and controlling this race?
00:32:48.880 --> 00:33:00.000
Just one more thing I wanted to say about Engvilde, and it's a race that uh unfortunately we couldn't watch on a live stream because I think uh that Tenerife Blue Trail race where they were gonna have the live stream at UTMB was that whole race was canceled.
00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:07.839
They didn't port things over to Chianti, but Engvilde was a part of that start-to-finish race with Courtney and Rachel for the podium, which was incredible.
00:33:07.920 --> 00:33:12.960
And that was that was a fantastic performance out of Engvilde, so I think it's there, and we've seen evidence of it in 2026.
00:33:13.359 --> 00:33:19.279
So actually, the more I think about it, like these former champions, I mean, I think it's gonna that that sub-narrative in this race is gonna be fantastic.
00:33:19.440 --> 00:33:20.799
Oh yeah, it's gonna be amazing.
00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:26.079
And yeah, I'm really curious, like who's the one that's g at the front?
00:33:26.240 --> 00:33:30.720
You know, someone has to be in the lead after the first, well, after the start.
00:33:31.039 --> 00:33:33.839
I I would be shocked if it's not Jen, put it that way.
00:33:34.079 --> 00:33:35.119
I think I agree with you.
00:33:35.440 --> 00:33:42.400
I I feel so CCC, actually the start, is one of the more bottleneck-y starts.
00:33:42.880 --> 00:33:43.200
Insane.
00:33:43.440 --> 00:33:46.240
More so way more so than OCC or UTMB.
00:33:46.720 --> 00:34:04.640
So, and and we talked about this a little bit, but you you've run CCC and you talked about the controlled, purposeful early match burning in the start and on that first climb for positioning, and how it's not necessarily a linear effort.
00:34:04.880 --> 00:34:05.279
Absolutely.
00:34:05.440 --> 00:34:15.840
I think that doing a couple VO2 max intervals in those first two miles to gain position before that switchback, really tight, narrow switchback trail climb is essential.
00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:22.320
Like there's there's there's a funnel even on the roads there, it's those narrow Italian roads, there's a funnel at the very start of the race.
00:34:22.480 --> 00:34:26.880
And then once you get to the trail, it's like game over, you've lost position at least until the top of that climb.
00:34:26.960 --> 00:34:28.559
It's almost impossible to pass.
00:34:29.199 --> 00:34:37.760
So then we're looking at some of these runners who are maybe less of the like diesel engine grinded out kind of runners, and like who can float between the paces.
00:34:37.840 --> 00:34:46.559
And and, you know, two runners that I'm confident have that ability are Jen Lichter and Miao Yao.
00:34:46.800 --> 00:34:47.360
Yeah.
00:34:47.679 --> 00:34:50.960
Where they can they're both pretty fast.
00:34:51.199 --> 00:35:03.840
You know, they might be have they might have an easier time getting out and positioning themselves a little harder and then get to settle in and pick and choose when to use the rest of the effort.
00:35:04.719 --> 00:35:05.039
Okay.
00:35:05.599 --> 00:35:09.599
Before we get into the fields, very last storyline that I want to get your take on here.
00:35:09.679 --> 00:35:15.519
And I I think one one of the things that's cool about the current era is okay, the name Hans Troyer.
00:35:15.760 --> 00:35:21.840
We have an athlete in the modern era like Hans, who's a superstar, but also like a prolific content creator.
00:35:22.079 --> 00:35:30.480
So he's built like in addition to just the fanfare that you get by winning these races and just being a prominent athlete, he's also built a YouTube channel and has like a massive fan base.
00:35:30.800 --> 00:35:35.119
So I think he will be one of the top two or three storylines in the entire race.
00:35:35.199 --> 00:35:38.800
And I think the overarching question for me is can he bounce back?
00:35:39.119 --> 00:35:46.079
And what I want to hear from you is whether that's a yes or a no, and build one of the two cases for whether he does or he doesn't.
00:35:46.159 --> 00:35:48.719
Like what would happen if he does, what would happen if he doesn't?
00:35:48.880 --> 00:35:50.159
What does it take?
00:35:50.639 --> 00:35:56.639
I think we need to define what bouncing back for Hans is.
00:35:57.760 --> 00:36:04.320
Some people are gonna there's people out there who are gonna expect Hans to win this race, and that's the bounce back.
00:36:04.639 --> 00:36:05.760
Hans expects to win this race.
00:36:05.920 --> 00:36:07.679
I don't think that's the only bounce back, though.
00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:13.360
I think if Hans finishes this race in the top ten, that's a good bounce back.
00:36:13.760 --> 00:36:14.559
I'm very happy with that.
00:36:14.719 --> 00:36:16.239
First European race, top ten.
00:36:16.719 --> 00:36:17.440
I'm happy.
00:36:18.400 --> 00:36:22.159
The and he's only lived in the mountains for like three months.
00:36:22.400 --> 00:36:27.119
He moved to Boulder in uh what March or something.
00:36:27.440 --> 00:36:29.199
That's been that's more than three months.
00:36:29.440 --> 00:36:35.679
But yeah, he hasn't he Georgia prior to that, and now and then Boulder since March.
00:36:36.639 --> 00:36:46.480
It's just not a lot of years of mountain seasoning, you know, referencing the Ludo cast iron skillet of seasoning the quads.
00:36:46.880 --> 00:36:48.400
Hans doesn't have that yet.
00:36:48.480 --> 00:36:52.719
He's like shiny stainless steel, which isn't bad.
00:36:53.199 --> 00:36:54.800
Or the non-stick pants.
00:36:55.440 --> 00:37:03.199
No, no one wants Teflon out here that scratches so easily and leeches microplastics into the rivers.
00:37:03.519 --> 00:37:04.480
No Teflon.
00:37:06.400 --> 00:37:07.440
Where was I going?
00:37:07.519 --> 00:37:07.920
Oh, yeah.
00:37:08.079 --> 00:37:08.400
Sorry.
00:37:08.559 --> 00:37:14.639
That's why I think a good, a great bounce back for Hans would be finish the race, compete, top ten.
00:37:15.199 --> 00:37:18.239
Any, you know, winning, obviously, icing for sure.
00:37:18.400 --> 00:37:22.719
But I don't think a ninth place CCC finish is a failure by any means.
00:37:24.159 --> 00:37:28.480
I just suspect that like Hans's competitive DNA is too much.
00:37:28.639 --> 00:37:36.400
I just I just don't want it to, I don't want that to dig a hole, like a bigger hole.
00:37:36.480 --> 00:37:43.360
Like I don't want it to be like a if I'm not winning the race, you know, I'm gonna I'm stopping.
00:37:43.519 --> 00:37:46.639
I don't want dropping out to become a habit.
00:37:47.360 --> 00:37:51.119
And I think this is a great opportunity to make sure that it doesn't become a habit.
00:37:51.440 --> 00:37:56.639
We got to see this firsthand because we're we're tossing the rock with him in the driveway of our Western State Studio.
00:37:56.719 --> 00:37:58.000
But Hans is a great athlete.
00:37:58.159 --> 00:38:11.599
Like he's not just a good runner, he has hand-eye coordination, he's a great disc golfer, he's a great basketball player, he's got handles, you can throw like and I say that because I think I think in terms of the there is going to be a learning curve.
00:38:11.679 --> 00:38:13.119
There is a learning curve happening.
00:38:13.280 --> 00:38:19.840
He's had to learn to hike, focus more on time on feet than just like speed and miles for you know his stravograph.
00:38:19.920 --> 00:38:24.320
But like Hans is a great athlete, and I think that that will make his learning curve here faster.
00:38:24.559 --> 00:38:24.960
Agreed.
00:38:25.119 --> 00:38:31.840
Because I think he'll pick up that downhill running skill on relatively technical terrain faster, he'll climb better.
00:38:32.079 --> 00:38:36.079
Uh yeah, I think that that might not be a a known fact as much about Hans.
00:38:36.239 --> 00:38:37.199
He's a great athlete.
00:38:37.440 --> 00:38:46.960
Yeah, and that absolutely is going to speed up the learning curve, especially when it just comes down to proper foot placement.
00:38:47.119 --> 00:38:50.400
We see people all the time fall on these trails.
00:38:50.800 --> 00:38:59.599
And most of that's due to just not paying attention or the brain and the body's not working as well as they should be when you get tired.
00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:05.440
Someone with that extra coordination, yeah, they're just going to fare a little bit better.
00:39:05.599 --> 00:39:08.800
So yeah, does that mean winning the race?
00:39:08.960 --> 00:39:09.920
I just don't know.
00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:12.960
I think there's a lot of big firepower which we can dive into.
00:39:13.199 --> 00:39:17.920
But can you actually see Hans early in the race being putting himself in like 12th place?
00:39:18.079 --> 00:39:22.320
No, he's way too fast and he's way too young and way too fit to do that.
00:39:22.639 --> 00:39:23.519
He's too young and fit.
00:39:23.679 --> 00:39:26.480
Yeah, he will be in the front group.
00:39:26.559 --> 00:39:34.480
Like where the lead bike is when they pan to the alleyway and it's five wide, Hans will be one of them.
00:39:34.800 --> 00:39:45.280
Mensfield returns four of last year's top ten or back, Meng Gwang Fu in sixth, Eli Hemming seventh, Rollins who took eighth, and Mario Almedo, who took ninth.
00:39:46.320 --> 00:39:51.519
I'm gonna give you a list of prohibitive favorites, and I'd love to know if I missed anyone.
00:39:51.679 --> 00:39:58.559
We got Ben Rubial, Christian Menoggio, Tomah Cardin, Andre Witek, Adam Peterman.
00:39:58.719 --> 00:40:04.239
I just mentioned Meng, Peter Frano, G Duo, mentioned Eli.
00:40:04.480 --> 00:40:06.880
Anyone else that you put in that favorites group?
00:40:07.039 --> 00:40:15.840
And I guess we can also say that maybe our dark horses could leech in there a little bit because I have a couple dark horses that some might see as favorites, but are there any yeah, I mean, like I would throw Tomal Cardin into that favorites group.
00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:16.400
I got Tomak.
00:40:16.480 --> 00:40:16.800
Oh, you did.
00:40:16.880 --> 00:40:16.960
Okay.
00:40:17.039 --> 00:40:17.519
I got Toma.
00:40:17.760 --> 00:40:21.119
Um no, those are definitely majority of the main behaviors.
00:40:21.199 --> 00:40:26.320
And then I have them, you know, I have a like miniature storylines for a couple of these groups.
00:40:26.480 --> 00:40:27.119
So like go ahead.
00:40:27.280 --> 00:40:32.960
Christian Minoggio, Andre Wechek, they were second and third at OCC last year.
00:40:33.039 --> 00:40:34.639
They've both moved up to CCC.
00:40:34.719 --> 00:40:34.800
Yeah.
00:40:35.039 --> 00:40:35.519
Very interesting.
00:40:35.679 --> 00:40:46.719
It seems like Christian Minoggio has been on a just a massive tear since at least for me, and maybe that's like the lack of Euro racing or viewing.
00:40:47.119 --> 00:40:57.679
But uh I was I didn't know who he was prior to OCC and after OCC, I absolutely knew who he was and watched him at Worlds and now moving up to CCC.
00:40:57.760 --> 00:41:01.280
That's yeah, I'm like, I put him in the favorites category.
00:41:01.519 --> 00:41:06.000
Um, say with same with Andre uh V Tech because he was not that far behind.
00:41:06.639 --> 00:41:17.360
Benjamin Rubio, second at the 2025 World Mountain Running or Trail Mountain Running Championships, long trail race, like second to Jim.
00:41:17.679 --> 00:41:18.000
Yes.
00:41:18.159 --> 00:41:21.119
And that was one of Jim's best races.
00:41:21.440 --> 00:41:21.840
Absolutely.
00:41:22.880 --> 00:41:23.920
Potentially of his career.
00:41:24.159 --> 00:41:26.239
Like that might have been one of the best races of his career.
00:41:26.639 --> 00:41:33.920
That OCC World's Double is one of the most impressive you know five-week stretches in our sport of all time, as far as I'm concerned.
00:41:34.559 --> 00:41:37.760
And this is the guy who came the closest to beating Jim there.
00:41:37.920 --> 00:41:38.159
Yes.
00:41:38.639 --> 00:41:45.039
If I'm him, I'm thinking if Jim was in this race, he'd be looking to win it.
00:41:46.079 --> 00:41:47.760
Jim's not, I'm gonna win.
00:41:50.400 --> 00:41:58.320
And then dropping down in distance, G Duo, who was fourth at UTMB last year, is now dropping down to OCC.
00:41:58.880 --> 00:42:03.599
So we've got an interesting dropping down to CCC, excuse me.
00:42:04.000 --> 00:42:08.480
Interesting mixture of people moving up and dropping down to this middle, middle distance.
00:42:08.880 --> 00:42:15.679
Christian Minozio was a is a 41-year-old dam keeper at 8,200 feet of elevation on alternating weeks.
00:42:15.760 --> 00:42:17.119
This is just fun kind of backstory stuff.
00:42:17.199 --> 00:42:23.519
G you mentioned G grew up herding yaks and foraging cordyceps on the Tibetan plateau.
00:42:23.920 --> 00:42:27.360
I'm trying to use that to fund his like lift into the sport.
00:42:27.679 --> 00:42:30.719
Yeah, so it's like, okay, so that that helped fund the sport.
00:42:30.800 --> 00:42:38.079
Because I was trying to figure out the parallel of like how I mean, I guess herding yaks can definitely like there's athleticism there.
00:42:38.239 --> 00:42:38.960
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:42:39.119 --> 00:42:41.119
I assuming like I'm just assuming you're doing it on foot.
00:42:41.199 --> 00:42:41.840
I think if you're doing it.
00:42:42.079 --> 00:42:42.400
I think so.
00:42:42.559 --> 00:42:42.719
Yeah.
00:42:42.880 --> 00:42:43.760
Okay, that's athletic.
00:42:43.840 --> 00:42:48.239
And then foraging cordiceps, you know, that's navigating through the woods.
00:42:48.400 --> 00:42:49.039
Yep.
00:42:49.280 --> 00:42:52.480
Um, okay, yeah, all that points to actually trail run.
00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:56.239
Dam keeper, Christian Binogio.
00:42:56.559 --> 00:43:00.559
You said he works a week on and week on, week off at 8,200 feet.
00:43:01.519 --> 00:43:07.840
I don't know what keeping a dam looks like, but working a week on, week off is an interesting work schedule.
00:43:08.079 --> 00:43:14.880
That's all right, and I I assume he's not working 24-7 for seven days straight, so there's probably time to train.
00:43:14.960 --> 00:43:27.519
But I'd be curious if there's anyone in the comments that can let me know if there's if you can still retain altitude benefits by living there for one week on and then being away from it for one week, or if that just neutralizes it out.
00:43:27.840 --> 00:43:32.400
I I just Googled Damkeeper just to see if there's any quick hit info that I could relay.
00:43:32.480 --> 00:43:36.480
And for some reason, the first result that pops up is a movie called The Damkeeper.
00:43:37.039 --> 00:43:37.840
Is it about Christian?
00:43:38.239 --> 00:43:44.719
It is about a young pig who is weighed down by an important job, but everything changes when a new classmate arrives.
00:43:45.199 --> 00:43:49.440
I have no idea why it's called the Damkeeper, but Okay, there we go.
00:43:50.159 --> 00:43:54.320
Um those all those all check.
00:43:54.400 --> 00:43:56.960
I mean, do you agree from the American side?
00:43:57.360 --> 00:43:59.679
Like in terms of just like setting aside the dark.
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:05.519
courses, do you see Adam and Eli as the two favorites from this group?
00:44:05.840 --> 00:44:06.480
I do.
00:44:08.000 --> 00:44:13.920
I'm still curious about like Eli has had a couple really great he's he's he's won 350Ks this summer.
00:44:14.000 --> 00:44:14.320
Yeah.
00:44:14.480 --> 00:44:20.159
And he appears to be kind of back in Eli hemming form nearly.
00:44:20.400 --> 00:44:25.119
You know his seventh at CCC last year was was okay for him.
00:44:25.360 --> 00:44:32.159
His even his win at OCC the year before he won the race but it was not pretty.
00:44:32.320 --> 00:44:32.480
Yeah.
00:44:32.639 --> 00:44:36.719
You know if you watch it he was like he was having heat stroke up the last climb.
00:44:36.800 --> 00:44:37.119
Right.
00:44:37.280 --> 00:44:39.920
And that's affected him ever since.
00:44:40.079 --> 00:44:45.679
And he I know that he kind of tried to retool his training.
00:44:46.159 --> 00:44:48.559
Him and Tabor have talked about it on their podcast.
00:44:49.119 --> 00:44:57.440
And it seems like they've kind of tried to go back to what they were having success with a couple years ago which was racing more, having more fun.
00:44:58.079 --> 00:45:00.719
We've seen Eli on more start lists this year than last year.
00:45:00.880 --> 00:45:01.280
Yep.
00:45:01.440 --> 00:45:05.280
And this is where they feel the most comfortable it seems like he's trending in the right direction.
00:45:05.679 --> 00:45:33.920
My biggest question mark with Eli might just come down to the weather and the high temperature like cooler weather cold wet rainy CCC Eli moves higher up in my um in my in my power rankings essentially he's like a a water Pokemon when it's raining out you know his attack gets increased by 20% but if it's sunny out defense just falls sharply.
00:45:34.559 --> 00:45:44.880
So that's my only question mark there and we're still a little bit too far out to really to make big calls on the weather although it looks like it's trending warmer right now.
00:45:45.360 --> 00:45:58.239
Seventh year last year won the Broken Arrow 46k back in June did the this is interesting did the Never Summer 60K last month in his full UTMB required gear kit I think that's really that's a really cool dress rehearsal.
00:45:58.320 --> 00:46:11.360
Yeah and I also just listened to their podcast Eli and Tabor and again if you come back to the golden ticket stuff they've talked about this apparently and you never know what happens in the moment but it seems like they are dedicated to the UTMB track.
00:46:11.440 --> 00:46:17.760
Like in the in the debate versus UTMB and Western like they pick I think their preference is to race UTMB and I think no golden tick.
00:46:18.000 --> 00:46:20.559
I don't think Eli would take a golden ticket.
00:46:20.639 --> 00:46:23.440
I think he's racing this to race it yeah which is interesting.
00:46:23.679 --> 00:46:28.559
Yeah you maybe race CCC to race CCC again next year.
00:46:29.280 --> 00:46:51.679
My Dark Horses group is Hans Troyer I mentioned Zach Perrin earlier and then I just got to give a quick shout to Kellen Bloomberg he's a Harvard data scientist on his Instagram bio it says lasagna enthusiast and we both know that real Gs move in silence like lasagna uh won the big Alta earlier this year fifth at La Freto 80k 216 Olympic trials marathoner.
00:46:51.840 --> 00:47:10.880
Not that that necessarily matters but that's I definitely I put less weight into that at a risk like the semester resume a bit yeah it's nice uh and yeah I think I think he's uh I think he's someone who I don't know if it's this year but I I do believe that within the next three to four years maybe even sooner someone like Kellen will see him as like when when you see him on a start line like yeah he's legit.
00:47:11.440 --> 00:47:19.840
Yeah couple international dark horses that some of our international listeners might be like they're not a dark horse but they are to me.
00:47:20.000 --> 00:47:51.039
Uh Nadir Meg Megwit he's trending upwards in terms of performances so you know third at Trans Vulcania second at the Lava Rate of 50k both super solid results and just you know that rate of improvement that kind of consistency in some of these beefier international mountainous courses those are all green flags for CCC.
00:47:51.519 --> 00:48:04.079
The other one that's kind of the opposite in that they've not had the best of luck here but they've had very like elite level performances c you know equivalent to a win at CCC is Dmitry Mityev.
00:48:04.159 --> 00:48:12.480
Yeah you know some of his Ultra Trail Cape Town performances I'm like okay some of those would win CCC.
00:48:12.719 --> 00:48:25.199
One TDS eight years ago one TDS eight years ago like yeah and he's he's been here multiple times so I'm really curious which version of him shows up yep at this race.
00:48:25.519 --> 00:48:37.679
You know the other yeah we I mean we talked a little bit about the bounce back of of the Western states DNFs but looking at Strava Dan Jones seems to have bounced back just fine.
00:48:37.920 --> 00:48:57.760
His training has looked amazing and Dan actually doesn't have bad races very often you know I would almost chalk western states up to I'm curious if he was sick or something because I remember when we when I was pacing Will Murray we went but went by him after force and he was just coughing yes so much.
00:48:58.000 --> 00:48:58.639
Yes.
00:48:58.880 --> 00:49:05.199
So I'm just like well maybe he just had a a thing of virus some going on during Western states.
00:49:05.280 --> 00:49:10.239
So then in a way that's easier to recover from yes and his training has looked great.
00:49:10.320 --> 00:49:17.920
So it's like okay well then if he's able to compartmentalize that and be like okay well I was just really sick you know respiratory issues.
00:49:18.480 --> 00:49:37.760
And there's a great example of like not all DNFs are created equal and some are easier to solve for and come back from even confidence wise than like oh I mean in Han's case maybe the magnitude is greater because he was out front you know on that live stream before hundreds of thousands of people for 12 hours before it unraveled exactly whereas Dan was kind of a little bit off the back the whole time.
00:49:37.920 --> 00:49:51.760
So like it was clear that he wasn't starting firing on all cylinders and it seems like the cylinder activation has been turned back on for Dan and he's just yeah he's a really fun runner to watch.
00:49:52.000 --> 00:50:15.199
One last thing before we get to the women we talked about this in our last long run archives episode I think the prompt was will we see uh a Chinese athlete podium in any of these three were you team at World Series finals and I I I believe that the best chance for this is going to happen on the men's side well actually the men's or the women's side at CCC.
00:50:15.519 --> 00:50:26.800
Uh on this men's side you've got Meng, Luo, we talked about Duo Ji, uh Bate, and so I think there's there's four guys here that I think are very capable of of podiuming here.
00:50:26.880 --> 00:50:29.679
So it's an interesting storyline I would say keep your eye on it.
00:50:29.840 --> 00:50:36.000
Absolutely and and on the women's side there's there's a large Chinese contingent there's two names that stick out.
00:50:36.079 --> 00:50:47.840
We've talked about Miao Yao a lot but then there's another name that I is is new to my radar and I think going to be new to a lot of people's radar but one that's I think pay attention to is Ling Ji Qi.
00:50:48.559 --> 00:50:50.639
She's a prolific racer.
00:50:50.880 --> 00:50:51.840
First race outside of China.
00:50:52.079 --> 00:51:28.559
First race outside of China but go look at some of those results there's a lot of wins but a lot of variability in terms of the race types for the win so she's been winning like in the same calendar year winning like a two hour sky race but also winning a 28 hour 100 miler I'm like okay if you if you got that ability to move up and down middle that CCC there you go women's field here so only two of 10 returned from last year.
00:51:28.639 --> 00:51:30.559
That's Robin Lesh and Veronica Lang.
00:51:30.639 --> 00:52:27.280
I've got the list of favorites here check my work Jennifer Lichter Yao Miao Caitlin Fielder Tony McCann Veronica Lang just mentioned her Elisa Kristen daughter Robin Fabiola Conti and I've also added in Helmino Faulkner anyone else to add to this favorites list yeah I want to just give an additional shout out to Fabiola Conti was third at uh world uh long trail last year so podium at worlds taking that into CCC is I mean that's yeah worlds last year was one of the most competitive races on the on the docket it was it was a great world so and especially with that course as well so I yeah I think Fabiola Conti is definitely one to watch out for Robin Lesh is another one where seventh year last year seventh seventh year last year and that was her first CCC.
00:52:27.440 --> 00:52:38.960
Yes so that's just the the learning curve element you know just the comfort and another year of training uh there's there's yeah there's improvements right there.
00:52:39.199 --> 00:52:44.719
The other name that I guess two other Americans we talked a little bit about Danny Moreno.
00:52:44.960 --> 00:52:50.079
I'm really curious to see how Danny does here this is I think going to be Danny's longest race.
00:52:50.480 --> 00:52:58.639
Second attempt at CCC DNF'd last year but had that sort of injury was still coming off injury is very uncertain until the last yeah like a bit of a bit of a false start.
00:52:58.880 --> 00:53:14.880
Almost didn't start yeah yeah and and in hindsight maybe shouldn't have but then Danny opened up the season at Broken Arrow with a win which we were chatting about that of like if you win broken arrow you're in world class shape.
00:53:15.519 --> 00:53:45.679
So I'm I'm excited to see Danny have another go at CCC and you know start to explore and learn these longer distances because kind of like and I and I don't know if I really anticipate Danny to be you know at the front of the field early on because there might be a little bit more reservation being the longest race etc but Danny is also one of those other runners like Jen Lichter and Miao Yao that has those extra VO2 max matches to burn.
00:53:46.559 --> 00:53:58.079
Two people I'll throw in so mentioned Veronica Lang she returns from last year really interesting progression over since this is dates back to 2022 here DNF to 11th to 5th last year.
00:53:58.239 --> 00:54:35.360
So great momentum and then we were talking yesterday about Caitlin Fielder and she's one of the most consistent high performing athletes of this generation at OCC and then obviously she's had all these great performances at Western states two top tens last or this year finally broke 16 hours which is incredible and uh which is rare just doesn't have quite that great CCC performance yet but I think I mean absolutely a favorite to me and has is just in a great spot I think in the sport and I mean I believe like if we had talked two years ago moving from OCC to CCC maybe more intimidating but like I think this is just no big deal.
00:54:35.679 --> 00:54:42.400
Did Kaylin Fielder race a by U like a UTMB World Series race after Western States last year?
00:54:42.639 --> 00:54:50.719
She did Tarweir this earlier this year and just had Or after Western States last year did she do a UTMB double up her stuff here.
00:54:51.360 --> 00:54:53.920
Because my question mark is just the the Western States recovery.
00:54:54.320 --> 00:54:59.599
Well she did she did the um she did the short trail race at World Trail Champs.
00:54:59.760 --> 00:54:59.920
Okay.
00:55:00.159 --> 00:55:01.920
Finished a tough day there 43rd.
00:55:02.159 --> 00:55:02.480
Okay.
00:55:02.639 --> 00:55:06.960
Yeah so and then came back three weeks later and won Tomp Lee.
00:55:07.519 --> 00:55:24.559
So interesting interesting end of the season so I'm just curious where the recovery's at and you know where the training's been the last eight weeks since Western States last name I've got that I want to shout out for is Aaron Clark.
00:55:24.880 --> 00:55:32.239
Aaron as a favorite I I I put her in that in that like top ten cool you know I mean she's top ten before here.
00:55:32.400 --> 00:55:39.360
Yeah but it's been a a minute since she's had as consistent looking of training as what I've seen on our Strava.
00:55:39.679 --> 00:55:47.840
And we now have seen the Missoula contingent of runners starting to become one of the strongest training groups in the U.S.
00:55:48.400 --> 00:55:57.760
And Aaron has been you know knocking out miles with you know Jen, Lichter, McKenna Morley and training's been looking really great.
00:55:57.920 --> 00:56:13.119
And even though Aaron hasn't logged like a super high caliber race result in a while she's one of those athletes that has the high pressure racing experience you know being a former you know NCAA Division I athlete where her and Lauren are two of the best.
00:56:13.199 --> 00:56:14.639
They have like real track results.
00:56:14.880 --> 00:56:19.119
Yeah so I'm not worried about the stage of this race for someone like Aaron.
00:56:19.280 --> 00:56:25.920
I think uh Aaron's probably been in higher pressure race situations than this CCC.
00:56:26.079 --> 00:56:40.800
So I'm not too worried about the fact that Aaron hasn't had a lot of recent race results but I think that's another name that we should be paying attention to just purely off of you know last few months of training alone.
00:56:41.119 --> 00:57:02.159
I've I've actually gotten to know her a little bit this summer just having been up in Missoula a few times and I think also like just to add, I think she's a really smart calculated runner too and really can run intuitively within herself and I yeah I think that the only concern for me coming to this has just been the years of injury but it it does genuinely seem like she's in a good spot and has put together consistent training.
00:57:02.480 --> 00:57:05.760
I see her very much as a as a top 10 candidate for sure.
00:57:05.920 --> 00:57:06.480
Yep.
00:57:06.800 --> 00:57:17.440
Dark horses I put Danny here and I'm I'll never doubt Danny I think she's a a gamer um and she's proven twice now that she can come back from injury and log like great broken arrow results.
00:57:17.519 --> 00:57:22.000
I just think it's the extension to 100k which is the question mark for me but I think she can do it.
00:57:22.159 --> 00:57:28.559
And then I mentioned her earlier but you know there was this sort of like young cohort of women at Canyons this year.
00:57:28.639 --> 00:57:34.639
It was her Elainey Matarisi and Sarah Humble who all finished inside the top seven at Canyons.
00:57:34.880 --> 00:57:48.800
Elainey and Sarah ended up taking the tickets but Sarah uh Sarah finished third and declined her ticket to focus on CCC and I'm really curious to see how that pays off really young too could be a future star in the sport.
00:57:49.039 --> 00:57:52.320
This could be like a Helen Mino Faulkner in 2023 type thing.
00:57:52.480 --> 00:57:56.639
So would not be surprised at all if we see her inside the top 10 on race day.
00:57:56.800 --> 00:58:01.840
It's an opportunity to launch yourself into the contract season stratosphere.
00:58:02.159 --> 00:58:07.199
This is a great race it it coincides almost perfectly with the kicking off of contracts for sure.
00:58:07.440 --> 00:58:22.719
You know because now it's the big one you crush it here going into the last quarter of 2026 and everyone's like hey remember my CCC and they're like I I do actually we were there and we saw it and it was great.
00:58:23.039 --> 00:59:00.559
And then I'll get your dark horse in question marks but my my question marks are we talked about it but Ingvilde Kasperson just because of sort of the boomer bust nature the past few years and then Claire simply because of that the bear incident yeah yeah my my question marks mostly all stem from the Western states recovery crowd especially just because of how demanding physically the race was this year with cooler temps but fast which means you trash your legs and muscle damage just that just takes time to recover from who's your women's winner and what are they what's the time?
00:59:01.599 --> 00:59:02.719
Oh actually let's do let's do both.
00:59:02.800 --> 00:59:05.280
Let's do it let's do it all once because I want to see if we if we sink or not.
00:59:05.440 --> 00:59:05.599
Okay.
00:59:05.760 --> 00:59:13.760
And we don't know this ahead of time do you yeah and I've I've I've always been really historically bad at UTMB times.
00:59:13.920 --> 00:59:17.360
So if if could you give me the winning times from last year?
00:59:17.679 --> 00:59:19.599
Uh well I'll give you the course records first.
00:59:19.760 --> 00:59:24.960
So Petra Engdahl ran 953 a few years ago which is just an otherworldly time.
00:59:25.119 --> 00:59:29.760
I think even as the sport's gotten better that time still stands as ridiculous.
00:59:29.920 --> 00:59:35.920
And then Blandine uh two years ago ran 1140 and change and that's also still the course record.
00:59:36.000 --> 00:59:37.920
Martina ran it came really close last year.
00:59:38.159 --> 00:59:38.320
Okay.
00:59:38.719 --> 00:59:52.719
Um so though I I see those two as the benchmarks and yeah I think Martina was like again I don't have at the top my notes here but it's like it was like 1141 or 42 I think and then I think the winning time uh CCC was in like the low tens.
00:59:53.440 --> 01:00:14.559
Okay well the winners I've got Jen Lichter Toma Cardin uh Jen huge course record with 1125 you know taking like 15 minutes off of it Tomah I just have sub ten written down I don't know if that's gonna be in there like it's gonna be fast one of the fastest of all time will it be sub 950?
01:00:14.639 --> 01:00:59.599
I'm not sure but I I think yeah I'm gonna go with Tomah like improving from the fourth place at Western states doubling that back to a win I I forget I forget the quote exactly but he only knows how to communicate in the form of winning the only language I I know how to communicate in is winning you know something like that yeah so I think we're gonna be hearing it loud and clear and I just I think Jen's gonna win I think Jen's gonna probably be off the front most of the time meow meow the Ingvilde Caitlin Tony they will be there but I think it's ultimately going to come down to like I always see one of the big cruxes of the of CCC being the descent off Grand Colforet.
01:00:59.760 --> 01:01:22.800
It's not that early or it's like halfway through the race but it's you know it's what is it 13 mile descent that descends 7,000 feet and it's not so like they can all descend that but it's then who is then able to climb well after that I think that's where Jen starts to really put distance on people we're the same toma cart and then Jen like for me.
01:01:22.880 --> 01:01:39.760
I've got Toma in 1002 so nine ish minutes off Petter's CR so no CR on the men's side I see Jen running 1138 so we're talking about a new course record but I will stay for the record I I think there's still on the women's side about 20 minutes to take off this course record.
01:01:39.840 --> 01:01:50.880
I think it's an impressive course record but I do think in the next few years we'll more regularly see this entire women's top 10 running in like the mid to high 11s.
01:01:51.039 --> 01:01:52.239
I think that's going to be a new standard.
01:01:52.320 --> 01:01:53.920
There's gonna be more of a Peloton there.
01:01:54.159 --> 01:01:56.000
So why did you pick Thomas?
01:01:56.320 --> 01:02:01.920
I picked Thomas because I think he is one of the most complete runners in the sport.
01:02:02.000 --> 01:02:36.480
I know that in this day of age you do just have to kind of be good at everything but I think he is better than everyone else who's good at everything to some extent and and I think again just like what I've heard from multiple people who ran alongside him at Western how effortless that performance was and the things that he was complaining about were like the smallest things like it was just like I think he was just looking for something to relate to with like Adam and he was like Adam's like oh man like my stomach hurts like I'm exhausted and Thomas like yeah man like my big toe kind of hurts he's like oh yeah my uh I sneezed back there.
01:02:36.880 --> 01:03:10.000
Exactly uh and so yeah I mean Thomas already had a complete running season similar to Jen but there's no evidence that he's not ready and I'm gonna keep betting on Toma until I hear otherwise see otherwise okay here's a question if not Toma if not Jen who probably Yao Miao on the woman's side I do think that like this is one of the three or four matchups across the week that I'm so excited to follow I think the other ones are Lauren Gregory like Lauren Gregory and McKenna as like a sub battle inside OCC.
01:03:10.400 --> 01:03:27.760
Great rivalry there um this one for sure so probably probably meow and then on the men's side I mean gosh I mean like with Andre and Christian like moving up to CCC I'm curious and be hard to bet against them.
01:03:27.920 --> 01:03:42.960
But also I think Ben probably Ben Rubial yeah I think Ben Rubial is not Toma I think Ben Rubial Ben is really good and he's French and so it's I mean we it's I don't pay as much attention to the European scene but what I've tuned into he's incredible agreed with Ben agreed.
01:03:43.360 --> 01:03:50.559
I don't think this is a I but yeah the homer me is like I would love to see Eli or Adam or Hans win.
01:03:50.719 --> 01:03:58.079
Yeah like no I would you know that I would be so stoked but I I think like my rational brain is saying that it's it's a European that that takes it here.
01:03:58.400 --> 01:04:01.039
I I think I got to agree with you on that one.
01:04:01.519 --> 01:04:24.079
Uh last thing well two things before we go one uh golden tickets who's taking the golden tickets okay men's men's took me a minute to figure out because I I started going I was like tomah cardin wins he already has an entry back to Western states if he wants I had I actually wrote down Adam Peterman second already back already back in.
01:04:24.159 --> 01:04:43.840
I had Christian Menoggio third I was like okay Christian Menogio I don't know if he's gonna take a golden ticket so we're say it say it rolls down then now I'm now I'm having to play out I'm not having to do like a Madden uh season simulator and I'm like having to like hit sim like 45 times to get this race so now we've got Dan Jones in fourth.
01:04:44.000 --> 01:04:47.760
He takes a golden ticket because he wants to get back into Western states.
01:04:48.239 --> 01:04:55.599
Got two tickets left Eli Hemming finishes next but he doesn't take the golden ticket because you said he's not golden ticket hunting.
01:04:55.679 --> 01:04:57.599
So now we're rolled down to seventh place.
01:04:57.760 --> 01:05:15.679
One wait one two three four five we're rolled down to sixth place we got Benjamin Rubio let's give him a golden ticket and now we're to seventh and I'm pretty sure the rules on Western State sites is that the super golden ticket race will roll down to seventh and no more.
01:05:16.239 --> 01:05:32.880
Andre Vitech does he take a golden ticket or do we only take two out of this and now my my hot take lukewarm take I don't know my take of this episode is that there's going to be one golden ticket that doesn't get taken.
01:05:33.280 --> 01:05:45.519
We're very similar because I I see a similar situation where not all is used but I think it's even worse now I think we're going to see one golden ticket taken on the men's side and one golden ticket taken on the women's side.
01:05:45.679 --> 01:05:48.239
And there's going to be an institutional golden ticket crisis.
01:05:48.639 --> 01:05:54.960
There's just going to be like one of these dumpsters is just going to be clogged up with styrofoam golden tickets.
01:05:55.360 --> 01:05:57.519
I do believe Hans is punching his ticket back.
01:05:57.679 --> 01:06:07.519
I believe he gets it here and I think I have written down that Hans is the first one out when like the ticket would roll down to Hans if that if it were uh legal, but it's not allowed.
01:06:07.920 --> 01:06:16.960
I I as a fan of the sport, I relish the idea of Hans getting nine months to prepare for Western states.
01:06:17.199 --> 01:06:20.239
Nine really good months to run it back correctly.
01:06:20.320 --> 01:06:25.519
And then on the on the women's side, I my dark horse Danny gets it.
01:06:25.760 --> 01:06:28.400
I don't know where she gets it between one to seven, but she gets it.
01:06:28.639 --> 01:06:28.960
Okay.
01:06:30.480 --> 01:06:34.000
Before we go, we just have to quickly acknowledge the breaking news.
01:06:34.320 --> 01:06:41.599
Shortly after our UTMB preview went live, we learned that Jim Walmsley is no longer on the elite entrance list for UTMB.
01:06:41.679 --> 01:06:46.000
We don't know if it's injury related, if he's moving to CCC or OCC, but he's no longer on it.
01:06:46.159 --> 01:06:52.880
And then Killian Jornette uh publicly confirmed on Instagram he's opting out in favor of knee surgery.
01:06:52.960 --> 01:06:53.280
Yeah.
01:06:53.440 --> 01:06:55.679
Both of these guys have been injured all year.
01:06:55.760 --> 01:06:58.880
Jim hasn't started a race since World's last September.
01:06:59.039 --> 01:07:03.280
Killian has been on start lines, but it's it hasn't been typical Killian.
01:07:03.760 --> 01:07:05.440
I mean, just quickly your your thoughts here.
01:07:05.679 --> 01:07:15.119
Yeah, I think it it even though we knew they were both going into this race banged up, we both knew that if they start the race, they're starting at the front of the pack.
01:07:15.199 --> 01:07:21.679
They're not gonna like play it conservative in hopes of healthily making it all the way around the mountains.
01:07:21.840 --> 01:07:34.559
So at least for the parts that they would have been running before maybe dropping, they would have I would have turned to them to be two of the people to be kind of controlling the race.
01:07:36.079 --> 01:07:37.280
They are both out.
01:07:37.679 --> 01:07:39.519
Who takes it over?
01:07:39.840 --> 01:07:42.400
Who is that who's that dude?
01:07:43.840 --> 01:07:44.880
I feel like Ben.
01:07:45.360 --> 01:07:49.760
I think Ben is he feels like it seems like he's ready to be that dude.
01:07:50.639 --> 01:07:55.360
Um and the other person who I feel like is now chopping at the bit to be that dude is Zach Miller.
01:07:55.599 --> 01:08:00.159
Yeah, I mean we talked in the previous episode that it was sort of Ben's race to lose.
01:08:00.239 --> 01:08:02.480
I think it's even like you said, it's even more so now.
01:08:02.719 --> 01:08:05.039
And then stock rising for Zach and Caleb, I think.
01:08:05.199 --> 01:08:05.360
Yeah.
01:08:05.599 --> 01:08:14.800
But I think the chances of a I don't know if it's nearly wire to wire, but more wire to wire than previously goes up for one of these runners.
01:08:15.440 --> 01:08:16.000
That's it.
01:08:16.079 --> 01:08:17.439
That's our preview of CCC.
01:08:17.520 --> 01:08:18.159
Hope you enjoyed.
01:08:18.239 --> 01:08:20.079
Let us know in the comments of this episode what you thought.
01:08:20.159 --> 01:08:23.359
Would you agree with our picks, our predictions, favorites, contenders, etc.
01:08:23.600 --> 01:08:24.399
Brett, thanks so much.
01:08:24.560 --> 01:08:34.159
All right, we are back with more coverage of the 2026 UTMB World Series Finals, and I have the pleasure of being joined by Tony McCann, who's getting ready for CCC.
01:08:34.319 --> 01:08:36.000
Tony, how are you doing this afternoon?
01:08:36.399 --> 01:08:37.600
I'm doing really good.
01:08:37.760 --> 01:08:39.039
It's great to be back in Sham.
01:08:39.279 --> 01:08:40.720
It's great to see everyone here.
01:08:40.800 --> 01:08:43.359
And uh yeah, the valley's filling up with all the runners.
01:08:43.520 --> 01:08:44.800
It's very exciting.
01:08:45.199 --> 01:08:49.680
At this stage in your career, what are you the most curious about?
01:08:50.880 --> 01:08:53.520
Dang, jumping straight into the hard questions here.
01:08:53.680 --> 01:08:55.199
No beating around the bush.
01:08:55.279 --> 01:08:57.119
Um, what am I most curious about?
01:08:57.279 --> 01:09:00.239
I think every race has its own challenges.
01:09:00.399 --> 01:09:04.960
Um, there's no, you know, I've done 100K now and I know how to do the distance.
01:09:05.119 --> 01:09:11.199
Um, so it's always about figuring out how to get your the best out of yourself on a specific course.
01:09:11.439 --> 01:09:14.239
Um and I think you never do it 100%.
01:09:14.479 --> 01:09:15.920
So it's always very exciting to come back.
01:09:16.000 --> 01:09:18.319
Like I've done CCC now twice before.
01:09:18.399 --> 01:09:22.319
Um, and I don't feel like I've ever fully nailed it.
01:09:22.479 --> 01:09:28.159
So I guess the curiosity is to try and see where I can improve and how I can do better.
01:09:28.399 --> 01:09:36.479
Um also it's always very exciting to step up to a course where there's like 20 deep on women who could absolutely crush the race.
01:09:36.640 --> 01:09:43.119
So just curious about what you can do when there's that deeper field and see what you can do.
01:09:43.439 --> 01:09:45.199
Yeah, what you can get out of your body.
01:09:45.600 --> 01:09:49.680
That's interesting that a win here doesn't count as nailing it because you won this race.
01:09:50.479 --> 01:09:57.199
Yeah, I think it was my first 100k ever, and I think I got away with a lot of mistakes.
01:09:57.439 --> 01:10:18.720
Um, I don't want to say I was lucky because I did obviously work really hard and I put a lot of um effort into the race, but I I definitely looking back know that there were areas that I can improve on, um, which is really exciting because I know I can run the course faster, um, but it also does put a little layer of pressure onto coming back because you want to always do better.
01:10:18.800 --> 01:10:22.960
Um and I think I ran a really good race, even though I feel like I could do more here.
01:10:23.520 --> 01:10:31.279
I was listening to a podcast that you did at the end of last year, and I think you were kind of lamenting some aspects of your 2025 season.
01:10:31.359 --> 01:10:35.840
Like you felt like you couldn't get into a rhythm, you felt like you were kind of on a treadmill in terms of like race selection.
01:10:35.920 --> 01:10:38.960
I think Lavareto was the one exception you were kind of excited about Lavareto.
01:10:39.359 --> 01:10:46.880
So if you throw CCC into that mix of like, this just feels like I'm going at it again, um, what's the reason this year?
01:10:47.359 --> 01:10:48.159
Or was that true?
01:10:48.319 --> 01:10:49.920
Do you still feel that that was true about last year?
01:10:50.239 --> 01:10:51.279
I definitely feel that was true.
01:10:51.439 --> 01:10:53.840
I think I was ticking boxes last year.
01:10:54.079 --> 01:10:58.560
Um, in hindsight, it's maybe not that the races weren't exciting that I wasn't doing.
01:10:58.640 --> 01:11:06.239
It was maybe more that I felt like I was doing them because I felt like I needed to do them, not because I was wanting to do them.
01:11:06.479 --> 01:11:09.359
This year, you know, my season hasn't been crazy.
01:11:09.520 --> 01:11:13.920
I haven't done anything wild in terms of travel or exciting races or anything crazy.
01:11:14.079 --> 01:11:17.039
Um, you know, I've stayed pretty local so far this season.
01:11:17.279 --> 01:11:20.880
And I think the difference is my mindset towards those races.
01:11:21.119 --> 01:11:28.079
I'm not feeling like I'm doing it for someone else to take a box and doing it because I'm actually truly excited about the races again.
01:11:28.239 --> 01:11:30.159
And I think that's the major difference.
01:11:30.800 --> 01:11:32.960
Uh just the maxi race this year so far?
01:11:33.279 --> 01:11:34.159
The maxi race.
01:11:34.239 --> 01:11:37.840
And then I did a local race uh out on the Beaufortin called La Frise en Roche.
01:11:38.159 --> 01:11:40.640
Uh so now I consider myself a local in a rash.
01:11:40.880 --> 01:11:41.520
Wait to talk about it.
01:11:41.520 --> 01:11:42.399
I've never heard of that race.
01:11:42.640 --> 01:11:46.319
Uh it's a local race in the Beaufortin, um, very local.
01:11:46.479 --> 01:11:50.640
Uh it's a race that actually Francois De Hain and Jim Mormsley have both won.
01:11:50.880 --> 01:11:58.000
And uh both of them have, since after doing that race that year gone on to win whatever respective race they did at UTMB.
01:11:58.079 --> 01:11:59.920
So I consider it a good luck charm.
01:12:00.399 --> 01:12:04.399
Um did that this year, won the 4042-ish K.
01:12:04.640 --> 01:12:09.439
Um, so hopefully the good luck of Francois and Jim carries on to me.
01:12:10.880 --> 01:12:13.279
Couple more questions on 2025.
01:12:13.520 --> 01:12:16.399
Again, this was back to I I'm blanking the name of the podcast.
01:12:16.479 --> 01:12:17.359
It was great.
01:12:17.600 --> 01:12:29.199
Um, you know, you you won CCC in 2024, and just hearing you talk earlier, like it wasn't perfect, you you got it done, it wasn't perfect, and there was kind of maybe things that you just don't want to improve there.
01:12:29.439 --> 01:12:41.520
But you know, I it sounded like it was a new thing, it was a new phenomenon for you to have to be in a position where like the spotlight's on you, you have to defend a title, there's heavy expectations.
01:12:43.119 --> 01:12:44.800
Have you found the answer for that?
01:12:44.960 --> 01:12:53.039
Like if if you were if you were to take like a new athlete in the sport that's that's just won a big race, like what would you tell them the answer is for how to process that?
01:12:54.000 --> 01:12:56.319
I'd say I'm still figuring it out for sure.
01:12:56.479 --> 01:12:58.159
I don't think I have all the answers to that.
01:12:58.399 --> 01:13:12.640
I think um acknowledging that it's there and that that pressure exists is a big step because last year I feel like I approached the race with a bit of an uh I don't know, maybe still the underdog mentality.
01:13:12.720 --> 01:13:18.640
And then I was thrown into this media storm of oh, she's gonna, you know, the defending title, the favorite to win.
01:13:18.800 --> 01:13:21.199
And I hadn't really expected it.
01:13:21.439 --> 01:13:27.920
And when I saw that all going on, I think it it added a layer of pressure that I didn't really expect or anticipate.
01:13:28.000 --> 01:13:30.159
So I I it it was really draining.
01:13:30.239 --> 01:13:33.680
I feel like I just went into the race completely empty already.
01:13:33.840 --> 01:13:54.960
Um so I think maybe my advice would be to try and limit the amount of noise that you have going into a race, really um close that circle in of the people that you want to surround yourself with and make sure that those are really positive and good energies, and then try and limit as much social media noise around you.
01:13:55.119 --> 01:14:04.319
Um, especially if it is your first time, I think you get better at it and dealing with that as you get more experienced with racing at a high level and not going in as an underdog.
01:14:04.479 --> 01:14:07.600
But uh yeah, it's it's not an easy thing to manage for sure.
01:14:07.680 --> 01:14:09.600
I definitely don't think I've nailed it.
01:14:10.239 --> 01:14:14.079
Like practically speaking, on the ground, like any because we're what, eight, nine days out?
01:14:14.239 --> 01:14:15.760
Is it like doing the interviews earlier?
01:14:15.920 --> 01:14:18.479
Is it like closing off like five days before?
01:14:18.560 --> 01:14:20.159
Like what's the what's worked for you?
01:14:20.399 --> 01:14:22.880
Yeah, doing the interviews earlier for sure is a big one.
01:14:22.960 --> 01:14:27.920
I think if this had been next week, uh probably wouldn't have had the same answer from me.
01:14:28.560 --> 01:14:41.279
Um but again, it's just all about protecting energy and making sure that you give energy to the things that you're excited about and and you know will feed back to you versus things that maybe don't um you know give you energy back.
01:14:41.439 --> 01:14:49.359
Uh but that also practically means making sure that I'm surrounded by only my friends in Race Week, trying to limit as much scrolling on social media as possible.
01:14:49.520 --> 01:14:51.760
Um yeah, just limiting noise.
01:14:52.079 --> 01:15:00.239
And then I I I'm I'm asking these questions only because I I genuinely find like the answers fascinating, I think instructive to like other people in your position.
01:15:00.319 --> 01:15:02.479
The 2024 when you called it joyless.
01:15:04.159 --> 01:15:06.720
Wow, I was really harsh on that race.
01:15:07.680 --> 01:15:26.079
Um I think in comparison to what I would call my breakout race at OCC the year before where I won, that race was, I think because it was so not unexpected, but just so unbelievable that I had finally achieved this goal that I had set out to achieve.
01:15:26.319 --> 01:15:36.239
Whereas CCC, I think because I had to dig so deep in that race and I'd gone to a place that I'd like emotionally and physically never had to go to before.
01:15:36.399 --> 01:15:41.119
Um, bearing in mind my longest run in preparation for that race was like 36Ks.
01:15:41.840 --> 01:15:43.920
Um so like I didn't do big body.
01:15:44.079 --> 01:15:46.720
My my my longest run time-wise was five hours.
01:15:46.800 --> 01:15:50.319
So I was already well past that coming into Champagne Lac.
01:15:50.560 --> 01:15:53.359
Like I had no idea what I was doing when I came into that race.
01:15:53.520 --> 01:16:00.399
And I think emotionally I just had to give so much of myself that when I finished, I didn't have anything left to celebrate with.
01:16:00.720 --> 01:16:08.479
Um and then because it's just you you give so much of yourself in the race afterwards, I just found myself so empty.
01:16:08.720 --> 01:16:11.600
Um, and it took me a really long time to recover from that.
01:16:11.760 --> 01:16:13.680
I would say months.
01:16:14.960 --> 01:16:19.840
At least on paper, I've seen like two major jumps in your career, one between 21 and 22.
01:16:20.000 --> 01:16:22.720
And then I would say again between 22 and 23.
01:16:23.279 --> 01:16:30.239
And the 22 to 23 one is interesting because it's like you go from being like a top five, top 10 type runner to like you're winning these the biggest races.
01:16:30.720 --> 01:16:40.960
Um, if you were to like pick a bucket, if it's like physical, mental, something else, like what do you think is the most important change that has to happen to make that transition to being like a winner of these races?
01:16:41.760 --> 01:16:42.800
Consistency.
01:16:43.039 --> 01:16:45.359
Honestly, that was the biggest thing that changed for me.
01:16:45.520 --> 01:16:58.319
I went from a runner who ran, you know, pretty much throughout the year, but was often taking big breaks or you know, not um not finding ways to cross-train effectively.
01:16:58.399 --> 01:17:04.399
Um it was running and it was only running, and that's kind of all I did, but I didn't run effectively.
01:17:04.560 --> 01:17:15.359
I I kind of I don't want to say I took too many rest days because that's not a thing, but um Yeah, may you know I was maybe Undertraining, under training is a thing.
01:17:15.680 --> 01:17:22.159
I think to some extent, you know, I hadn't, I think my first hundred kilometer training week ever was in 2022.
01:17:22.560 --> 01:17:24.720
So like I wasn't a big mileage person.
01:17:24.880 --> 01:17:30.560
I'm still not a huge mileage person, but like I was really not a big mileage person before like 2022.
01:17:30.800 --> 01:17:43.600
So I think one of the things was stepping up a little bit in mileage in my training, not taking necessarily less training days, but um yeah, just doing a little bit more, not a crazy amount more, but a little bit more.
01:17:43.840 --> 01:17:47.439
And then I think the biggest thing also was learning to cross-train.
01:17:47.600 --> 01:17:52.159
Um, I am unfortunately fairly injury prone, I think.
01:17:52.239 --> 01:17:54.880
Um, and when that would happen, I just didn't have anything to do.
01:17:54.960 --> 01:17:57.279
I didn't know I didn't cycle, I hate swimming.
01:17:57.439 --> 01:18:00.960
So like I wouldn't fill the injury space with anything.
01:18:01.199 --> 01:18:03.439
So now I do cross-train a lot more.
01:18:03.520 --> 01:18:07.520
I do my gym work, I cycle quite a lot, still don't swim, still hate swimming.
01:18:07.600 --> 01:18:13.920
Um, but there's definitely other ways that I've found to be effective in training when I've to fill those gaps and to stay consistent.
01:18:14.159 --> 01:18:31.359
But for sure, the biggest thing that changed was consistency as well as actually joining the Adidas team, um, getting to spend so much time with the the team and my teammates and having the opportunity to come to eight-week training camps in Chamonix like before that that was unheard of in my life.
01:18:31.439 --> 01:18:38.880
Um, so getting to be surrounded by all of these incredible athletes was also incredibly inspiring, but I learned a lot about how to train effectively from them.
01:18:39.279 --> 01:18:40.880
Are you still coached by Tom Evans?
01:18:41.199 --> 01:18:42.079
Still am, yes.
01:18:42.319 --> 01:18:42.560
Yeah.
01:18:42.880 --> 01:18:46.159
We've never really talked about Tom as a coach on this podcast.
01:18:46.640 --> 01:18:49.680
Uh what makes him a great coach?
01:18:50.239 --> 01:18:56.000
For me, he is what I need because I'm not I'm not a needy athlete.
01:18:56.159 --> 01:19:02.960
Like I self-coached for most of the years until actually two years ago when I started with Tom, I was self-coached.
01:19:03.199 --> 01:19:06.560
Um, so I I like to be quite independent to my training.
01:19:06.640 --> 01:19:09.279
I like to have flexibility in how I structure my weeks.
01:19:09.439 --> 01:19:15.199
And Tom is great because he's okay with me mixing things up when I need to, and he's quite hands-off with me.
01:19:15.359 --> 01:19:20.560
I know he's not the same way with all of his athletes, which I think is what makes a good athlete, uh a good coach.
01:19:20.720 --> 01:19:23.520
They know how to manage different personalities.
01:19:23.760 --> 01:19:26.640
Um, but for me, he he gives me my training.
01:19:26.720 --> 01:19:30.079
I get on with it, and if I have a question, I can ask him and he'll respond.
01:19:30.239 --> 01:19:36.560
But it's not uh he's not nagging me about hitting specific goals in a week or, you know, that's on me.
01:19:36.640 --> 01:19:39.279
And I like that autonomy in my training.
01:19:39.920 --> 01:19:43.199
Independent of any result, what do you want to do better on this course this year?
01:19:43.439 --> 01:19:45.520
Where are the room where's the room for improvement?
01:19:46.479 --> 01:19:48.159
I want to pace myself better.
01:19:48.399 --> 01:19:53.680
I think the race is really it's really easy to get too caught up too early.
01:19:53.920 --> 01:19:57.840
And I I know a lot of people say, you know, the race only starts in Champagne Lac.
01:19:58.000 --> 01:19:58.399
I disagree.
01:19:58.479 --> 01:19:59.760
The race starts when the race starts.
01:19:59.840 --> 01:20:02.960
Like there's no such thing as the race only starting 50ks in.
01:20:03.119 --> 01:20:06.399
You have to keep that front group within sights.
01:20:06.560 --> 01:20:14.479
But I think last year I got too caught up in running other athletes' races and it ruined my race.
01:20:14.720 --> 01:20:22.159
I truly, I completely think that was part of my big issue last year is I I was trying to run someone else's race instead of my own.
01:20:22.720 --> 01:20:32.479
Um, so yeah, the the biggest thing for me is this year not losing touch with the front group, but not letting them not being afraid to let them go if I need to run my pace.
01:20:32.560 --> 01:20:38.640
Um, because I think that the second half of the race is where I lost a lot of time in my first year.
01:20:38.800 --> 01:20:41.439
And I'd really like to run that second half better.
01:20:43.439 --> 01:20:44.800
It's hard not to look at two forward.
01:20:45.039 --> 01:20:52.640
Would you talk about the decision you'd have to make if you have the opportunity to take a golden ticket to Western states?
01:20:54.880 --> 01:20:58.560
Um I would take it, I think.
01:21:00.800 --> 01:21:03.840
Um something different.
01:21:04.560 --> 01:21:06.960
Some like a completely different style of training.
01:21:07.039 --> 01:21:11.439
You know, I live in the Alps, so a lot of my training is running up a mountain and then running down a mountain.
01:21:11.600 --> 01:21:16.479
So the idea of a different type of training, something more flat, something faster is quite appealing.
01:21:16.960 --> 01:21:20.000
Um I also just think it's an exciting race.
01:21:20.079 --> 01:21:24.079
There's so much so much talent that congregates in that that space.
01:21:24.239 --> 01:21:28.399
Um, and putting yourself up against other incredible woman is always an exciting thing to do.
01:21:28.479 --> 01:21:31.039
You know, I've done CCC now a few years.
01:21:31.199 --> 01:21:35.199
I'd like to give that a bit of a break um before potentially maybe one day.
01:21:35.279 --> 01:21:40.159
I'm not saying this is gonna happen next year or the year after, but maybe one day stepping up to UTMB.
01:21:40.479 --> 01:21:52.159
Um and I think Western States is quite a nice first hundred miler, um, just because it's quite fast and not too much longer than a hundred K race.
01:21:52.720 --> 01:21:57.279
Um but but yeah, if I don't get the ticket, there's still lots of other exciting races next year.
01:21:57.359 --> 01:22:09.520
I probably I might give UTMB week a skip um in favor of world champs because that's in South Africa next year and I would have to if I obviously make the team touch wood.
01:22:09.680 --> 01:22:16.399
Um if I make the South African team, I'd obviously love to represent my country on home turf on the mountain that I began trail running.
01:22:16.720 --> 01:22:20.720
Is that and uh this could like is it obviously exciting that it's in South Africa next year?
01:22:20.880 --> 01:22:24.880
Like are you is that like a no-brainer I'm gonna go be a participant in that?
01:22:25.199 --> 01:22:26.640
If I get into the team, 100%.
01:22:27.119 --> 01:22:31.760
That's like that will be my season's main goal and everything else will be built around it.
01:22:32.319 --> 01:22:36.960
Is there gonna be unfortunate conflicts between that event and Cape Ultra Trail Cape Town?
01:22:37.039 --> 01:22:38.319
Because they're like a month apart, right?
01:22:38.560 --> 01:22:39.439
They're pretty close together.
01:22:39.600 --> 01:22:43.039
Ultra trail Cape Town has such an incredible s support from the community.
01:22:43.119 --> 01:22:48.479
You know, maybe we don't get as many elites there, but I don't think it's gonna take away from the event at all.
01:22:48.560 --> 01:22:50.479
I think it'll be as amazing as ever.
01:22:50.720 --> 01:22:58.399
If not more amazing, because everyone will just be so stoked from having all of these incredible athletes from all over the world having shown up on their doorstep.
01:22:58.720 --> 01:23:04.880
Before we go, uh I I'm remembering now, I did want to ask you on like the sports psychology side of things.
01:23:04.960 --> 01:23:06.239
Are you working with a coach at this point?
01:23:06.560 --> 01:23:07.680
Not currently, no.
01:23:07.840 --> 01:23:09.039
I was at the beginning of the year.
01:23:09.359 --> 01:23:09.680
Okay.
01:23:10.000 --> 01:23:14.399
Do you are you do you buy or sell that as like a benefit to what you're doing?
01:23:14.720 --> 01:23:15.760
Yes, 100%.
01:23:16.399 --> 01:23:20.399
I definitely think maybe not for the whole year, at least for me.
01:23:20.560 --> 01:23:27.840
Um I like to kind of step back and try and implement what I've learned and then I'll go back to someone.
01:23:28.000 --> 01:23:33.760
Um but for sure I I had a lot of work to do at the beginning of the year, and I'm glad I took the time to do it.
01:23:33.840 --> 01:23:41.680
There was a lot of um upstream work that needed to be done that or needed to be addressed um that I hadn't ever really done.
01:23:41.920 --> 01:23:48.800
So it was good to do that at the beginning of the year where they had the time to actually focus on it and give it energy because it's important.
01:23:49.119 --> 01:23:51.039
Uh what did you learn?
01:23:51.520 --> 01:23:54.479
That I'm um a I'm a perfectionist.
01:23:54.560 --> 01:23:59.119
I think I I mean I always knew that, but I never really realized how much it affected me.
01:23:59.359 --> 01:24:08.079
Um it kind of it ruins your ability to have fun and be playful and to make mistakes and to fail and try again.
01:24:08.239 --> 01:24:16.960
Um so really trying to shift that mindset from perfectionism to um the word that my coach used was excellence.
01:24:17.039 --> 01:24:24.079
Um and excellence doesn't mean that you're not striving to be the best, your best, not the best, your best.
01:24:24.239 --> 01:24:29.760
Um, but it means that it allows you to to make mistakes and to learn in the process.
01:24:30.479 --> 01:24:36.960
What is an example of an exercise that you do with your coach or that you did with your coach to uh to transition that mindset?
01:24:39.279 --> 01:24:44.399
Uh we just did a lot of talking, honestly, and he would be like, ah, there it is.
01:24:44.640 --> 01:24:45.359
That was it.
01:24:45.520 --> 01:24:47.279
That was perfection talking.
01:24:47.439 --> 01:24:49.680
Um, like re-rephrase that.
01:24:49.760 --> 01:24:50.800
How would you rephrase that?
01:24:50.960 --> 01:24:52.239
So it'd be like those kinds of things.
01:24:52.479 --> 01:24:53.760
We just did a lot of talking, honestly.
01:24:53.840 --> 01:25:02.800
There were no specific exercises, but it was more just like speaking through and then him catching me and calling me out when I made the mistakes.
01:25:03.199 --> 01:25:03.520
Very cool.
01:25:03.600 --> 01:25:34.479
Yeah, I've and I've one of the reasons I ask is I've just seen so many variations of like the sports psychologist in practice, like obviously that, and then I mean, even earlier this summer, like hearing about people at Western States who like they would have that coach out on course in training runs, and like in order to build fatigue resistance, like they would give them like some sort of like mental exercise to play at aid stations to like force their brain to work even harder during that run so that like they had that fatigue resistance built in for like mile 80 on the day.
01:25:34.800 --> 01:25:36.239
That's a very good tool.
01:25:36.319 --> 01:25:37.600
I'm gonna have to add that one to my own.
01:25:37.760 --> 01:25:40.159
I wasn't sure what like the extent of like what yeah, like what you guys were doing.
01:25:40.560 --> 01:25:41.039
Yeah, yeah.
01:25:41.199 --> 01:25:43.279
I mean we didn't work together for a ton of time.
01:25:43.359 --> 01:25:46.399
I think uh it was about eight weeks of work together.
01:25:46.560 --> 01:25:50.159
Um, but I definitely had a lot of homework to do.
01:25:50.239 --> 01:25:56.880
Um, and I think I'm still doing, and once I'm finished with that, then we'll start working together again for sure.
01:25:57.760 --> 01:26:01.920
Last question for you is there a mantra for Rista?
01:26:06.159 --> 01:26:06.800
Hmm.
01:26:10.159 --> 01:26:12.640
The one that I came up for Maxi Race.
01:26:12.880 --> 01:26:15.279
So I have this thing that I do when I can't sleep.
01:26:15.359 --> 01:26:23.439
Um, I think of a four-letter word, and then for every letter in that word, I have to think of as many words as I can.
01:26:23.600 --> 01:26:29.119
So the word that I thought of before Maxi Race, the night before Maxi Race was cope.
01:26:29.680 --> 01:26:44.479
And for each of those words, the only things that I could think about were courage, optimism, um uh what was my P perseverance and excitement.
01:26:44.880 --> 01:26:48.720
And those were the words that I just kept repeating to myself through the race.
01:26:48.960 --> 01:26:54.720
And whenever things got cut hard, it was like, okay, courage, like courage, just have courage and persevere, you got this.
01:26:54.800 --> 01:26:58.560
So I think for whatever reason that has stuck with me in a big way.
01:26:58.720 --> 01:27:01.439
Um so I think cope is my my mantra.
01:27:01.520 --> 01:27:05.760
And whenever I get in a hard place, I run through those words and I'm like, okay, I can do this.
01:27:06.000 --> 01:27:09.600
Courage, optimism, perseverance, excellence, excitement.
01:27:09.840 --> 01:27:14.239
I mean, there's multiple variations of that, but that was what stuck with me.
01:27:14.800 --> 01:27:16.640
Tony, we we really appreciate your time.
01:27:16.720 --> 01:27:22.399
We can't thank you enough, and very much looking forward to uh to watching you race next Saturday.
01:27:22.560 --> 01:27:24.560
And I just hope you have a great time out there.
01:27:24.800 --> 01:27:25.039
Thank you.
01:27:25.119 --> 01:27:25.680
Thank you so much.
01:27:25.760 --> 01:27:26.479
Thanks for having me.
00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:03.839
Welcome back to our coverage of the 2026 UTMB World Series Finals.
00:00:03.919 --> 00:00:05.919
This episode is a two-part or first.
00:00:06.080 --> 00:00:16.239
I am joined by Brett Horning to preview CCC, and that is followed up by an interview with Tony McCann, a CCC and OCC champion who's lining up again at CCC this year.
00:00:16.399 --> 00:00:21.519
Our coverage of these races is made possible by Norda Precision Fuel and Hydration and Raid Research.
00:00:21.760 --> 00:00:23.839
Norda is the footwear partner of our coverage.
00:00:24.000 --> 00:00:35.439
Their latest shoe model, the 5-5, was worn by Rachel Entriken and route to her course record victory at Cocodona in May, and again by Jimmy Elam for his second place finish at this year's Hard Rock 100.
00:00:35.600 --> 00:00:39.280
Proven in the field, go check them out at NordaRun.com.
00:00:39.439 --> 00:00:42.320
Precision Fuel and Hydration is the nutrition partner of our coverage.
00:00:42.399 --> 00:00:46.079
They have 17 pros lining up across UTMB races next week.
00:00:46.240 --> 00:00:54.320
Familiar names include Rachel Entrikken, Dan Jones, Caleb Olson, Chris Myers, Rachel Drake, Tyler Green, Eli and Tabor Heming.
00:00:54.399 --> 00:00:58.159
They'll also have eight members of their staff embedded in the crews of these athletes.
00:00:58.320 --> 00:00:59.039
Go check them out.
00:00:59.119 --> 00:01:05.280
It's the best sports nutrition on the market, and feel free to use code SingleTrack at checkout for 15% off.
00:01:05.599 --> 00:01:08.959
Raid Research finally is the equipment and apparel partner of our coverage.
00:01:09.040 --> 00:01:15.120
They'll be set up at Sanglard Sports through August 29th, demoing many of their 2027 products.
00:01:15.200 --> 00:01:18.640
And they'll also have current products like their LF5L Vest for sale.
00:01:18.799 --> 00:01:24.799
Also of note, one of their top athletes, Henriette Albin, is racing UTMB next week in a debut kit of theirs.
00:01:24.959 --> 00:01:28.159
Go check out everything at raidresearch.com.
00:01:28.480 --> 00:01:29.680
Hey everyone, we are back.
00:01:29.760 --> 00:01:37.439
It is Friday, August 21st, and it is another day of coverage of the 2026 UTMB World Series Finals.
00:01:37.680 --> 00:01:39.599
We've got some nice ambiance here.
00:01:39.680 --> 00:01:45.280
We've got the window open in our studio, and it is absolutely downpouring in Shaman right now.
00:01:45.359 --> 00:01:50.079
Brett, you were talking yesterday about how uh the mountains are big, but the weather is big here too.
00:01:50.319 --> 00:02:02.079
I don't know how I would operate with just this much steady, like big ol big ol' fat rain, as Forrest Gump would say, uh just coming down.
00:02:02.319 --> 00:02:14.960
I every I mean it woke me up multiple times last night with our metal roof and how hard it was coming down, and all I could think about was I last year, you know, it started raining around 8 p.m.
00:02:15.120 --> 00:02:16.400
at UTMB last year.
00:02:16.560 --> 00:02:30.719
I was like, I cannot imagine just being on my way around Mont Blanc having to navigate the trails in the dark, fog, clouds, then this kind of weather coming down.
00:02:30.960 --> 00:02:50.479
But like we had talked about in the UTMB preview episode, and kind of goes with CCC and OCC, but you have to be really experienced with your kit, which I always think about like probably the goat of dialed in kit, Francois Dain.
00:02:50.719 --> 00:02:51.039
Yes.
00:02:51.520 --> 00:02:58.800
He was always had the perfect layering set up, he knew exactly what he needed for which temperature and always was able to make the right decisions.
00:02:59.039 --> 00:03:11.280
And that's one of those things where I feel like the the year after year experience of just being out here in the valley would pay dividends so much later.
00:03:11.520 --> 00:03:20.000
Because I was just thinking, I was like, dude, if I was a rookie out here on an UTMB, I would have been I'd be I'd be terrified if I wasn't already out here for you know a month prior.
00:03:20.400 --> 00:03:37.520
One of these years at UTMB, I would love for Conversational Pace to do some sort of uh series around mandatory gear kits, and like you just go, like you and Francois sit down, and it's like, okay, you look through his kit for UTMB, you and Hans sit down, you and Marianne sit down, you and Ruth sit down.
00:03:37.599 --> 00:03:41.919
That would be to the extent that they'd be willing to share and walk through their decisions, that'd be fascinating.
00:03:42.080 --> 00:03:53.439
Well, yeah, because I always, you know, on the especially on the elite side, you always hear about like trying to get everything as light as possible, but there's a cost to that in terms of it actually being functional or not, you know.
00:03:53.520 --> 00:03:59.120
If we've got like our lunch lady plastic gloves, it's like, yeah, my hands are dry, but they're also frozen.
00:03:59.520 --> 00:04:08.800
Um it would be cool to figure out what is actually the perfect blend of lightweight but still truly useful gear for this race.
00:04:09.039 --> 00:04:13.680
We talked with Caleb a few days ago, and that was sort of the thread he was trying to needle.
00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:15.759
I think I asked him, like, you know, are you counting grams?
00:04:15.840 --> 00:04:22.240
He's like, to some extent, yes, but also like I at UTMB, at CCC, you learn pretty quickly that like you do need to use this stuff too.
00:04:22.319 --> 00:04:24.319
It's not it's mandatory for a reason.
00:04:24.560 --> 00:04:25.600
So yeah.
00:04:25.759 --> 00:04:26.160
Yep.
00:04:26.639 --> 00:04:26.959
Okay.
00:04:27.279 --> 00:04:30.399
Uh some station identification here, some housekeeping.
00:04:30.560 --> 00:04:33.199
First, this is our CCC preview episode.
00:04:33.360 --> 00:04:33.600
Yeah.
00:04:33.759 --> 00:04:40.480
Our last episode, our UTMB preview, we forgot to do a proper celebration, but it it was our 500th episode of single track.
00:04:40.639 --> 00:04:42.160
This is episode 501.
00:04:42.720 --> 00:04:44.639
So can't believe we forgot.
00:04:44.800 --> 00:04:45.759
Can't believe we forgot.
00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:47.040
Congrats to 501.
00:04:47.279 --> 00:04:48.720
Congrats to 501.
00:04:49.120 --> 00:04:57.360
Um and yeah, do us a favor on when this CCC episode goes live, either drop it on the UTMB preview or this one.
00:04:57.439 --> 00:05:00.720
Uh, leave a comment letting us know your favorite episode over the years and why.
00:05:00.879 --> 00:05:01.680
It's actually crazy.
00:05:01.839 --> 00:05:06.720
I raced CCC back in 2021, and that was my intro to UTMB.
00:05:06.879 --> 00:05:10.480
That month, August, also coincided with the first ever episode of Single Track.
00:05:10.639 --> 00:05:11.199
Was that Debo?
00:05:11.439 --> 00:05:12.079
It was with Debo.
00:05:12.319 --> 00:05:12.639
Wow.
00:05:12.800 --> 00:05:13.600
Which is amazing.
00:05:13.759 --> 00:05:17.759
And so, yeah, there's just a it's it's kind of a full circle moment, which is pretty cool.
00:05:17.839 --> 00:05:21.279
But um, Brett, let's let's get into CCC.
00:05:21.600 --> 00:05:23.439
There are a lot of storylines.
00:05:24.399 --> 00:05:26.240
The first one for you, the most compelling.
00:05:26.480 --> 00:05:34.399
Okay, this is well, I guess before we get into this some storylines, I guess just like a little the elevator pitch of CCC.
00:05:34.560 --> 00:05:42.800
So starts in Cormayer, makes its way to Chamonix, 100 kilometers, 62 miles, about 20,000 feet of gain.
00:05:43.199 --> 00:05:47.279
Sorry, I didn't write down the the metric, six sixty something thousand meters.
00:05:47.600 --> 00:05:51.360
High point of the course, 8,300 feet, going up and over the Grand Colfera.
00:05:52.560 --> 00:05:54.000
Super golden ticket race.
00:05:54.959 --> 00:05:58.000
Super super got to six.
00:05:58.160 --> 00:05:59.600
Six well, yeah, three on each side.
00:06:00.160 --> 00:06:01.600
Twa ticket.
00:06:02.800 --> 00:06:04.399
That's always an interesting one.
00:06:04.560 --> 00:06:11.199
Um you know, we kind of talked about this every year before how do we feel about CCC being a golden ticket race?
00:06:11.360 --> 00:06:13.120
A lot of people come here to race CCC.
00:06:13.279 --> 00:06:17.199
How many people are actually here to get a golden ticket?
00:06:17.360 --> 00:06:19.439
What's like the double dip factor?
00:06:19.759 --> 00:06:33.519
Um, do you looking at these entrance lists across either the men's or women's fields, do you see much for names that are like an obvious I'm here because I'm just trying to get a golden ticket?
00:06:33.759 --> 00:06:34.879
There's a couple people.
00:06:35.120 --> 00:06:38.879
Hans is the obvious one because he has been on the record talking about it.
00:06:38.959 --> 00:06:43.759
But then looking at the Americans specifically, I believe Eric Lapuma would absolutely take one.
00:06:44.000 --> 00:06:49.040
I believe Tim Reed, who had an amazing performance at Black Canaan earlier this year, would take one.
00:06:49.199 --> 00:06:58.639
I have to believe Gavin Pryor would, Kellen Bloomberg, some people that I'm not sure about, Eli Hemming, Dakota Jones, Zach Perrin, Adam Loomis.
00:06:58.959 --> 00:07:05.360
Some of these guys, like, I just don't know where they're at in their careers in terms of like, do I want to stay more so in these like true mountain races, or do I want to do Western states?
00:07:05.600 --> 00:07:12.959
On the women's side, uh, I mean, yeah, you and I love to have like the running thread of like, does Helen Mino Faulkner reject another ticket?
00:07:13.040 --> 00:07:14.879
Yeah, uh, which is such a baller move.
00:07:14.959 --> 00:07:15.600
We love it.
00:07:15.759 --> 00:07:18.000
Uh Claire Rhodes, Danny Moreno.
00:07:18.399 --> 00:07:19.360
I mean, here's another one.
00:07:19.439 --> 00:07:20.240
Sarah Albin.
00:07:20.399 --> 00:07:22.560
She got third at Canyon's 100k earlier this year.
00:07:22.639 --> 00:07:24.720
She declined her ticket to focus on CCC.
00:07:24.800 --> 00:07:26.319
And now she's in CCC.
00:07:26.720 --> 00:07:28.959
Does she what's what's her calculus?
00:07:29.199 --> 00:07:33.600
Yeah, maybe she's like, I gotta beat Helen Mino Faulkner in ticket turndowns.
00:07:35.120 --> 00:07:36.319
Uh well, I mean, what do you think?
00:07:36.480 --> 00:07:37.199
What's obvious to you?
00:07:37.279 --> 00:07:38.639
Or what's what's interesting?
00:07:39.040 --> 00:07:41.759
It's still and and I think this is a good thing.
00:07:42.079 --> 00:07:48.319
CCC still feels like it's the priority reason for why most people are here.
00:07:48.560 --> 00:07:56.160
And like a happy accident of a great CCC is the opportunity to go to Western states if you want to.
00:07:56.399 --> 00:08:00.959
But it it feels like CCC is the championship race.
00:08:02.079 --> 00:08:04.399
Which then it's then that always just brings up the debate.
00:08:04.560 --> 00:08:09.360
Like, well, if this is the championship race, why is it a qualifier for something else?
00:08:11.040 --> 00:08:11.519
Exactly.
00:08:11.839 --> 00:08:12.160
I know.
00:08:12.560 --> 00:08:13.439
But I don't know.
00:08:14.079 --> 00:08:18.480
I don't mind talking about the additional dynamic that it brings to the field.
00:08:18.639 --> 00:08:31.839
I I do think part of it does still encourage late-stage racing and you know seventh place, more important at CCC than at UTMB or OCC.
00:08:32.159 --> 00:08:43.279
I guess I've always been surprised over the last few years that this hasn't been more of a parallel independent track in the sport, at least on the North American scene.
00:08:43.360 --> 00:09:05.600
I feel like the elites have been invested in both the UTMB pathway and the Western pathway, whereas if you look back into like the early 2010s and the years when it was like the Scott jerks of the world were like the Western States crowd and the Carl Meltzers and the Jared Campbells were like the hard rock crowd, like those were like two totally different camps, and the crossovers were rare and few and far between.
00:09:05.759 --> 00:09:10.879
I'm surprised that there's in this day of age more crossover, at least among the Americans, between those two.
00:09:11.039 --> 00:09:16.080
Because they're as we're seeing here, as you've been here now for a couple of days, this is a totally different environment than Western states.
00:09:16.240 --> 00:09:17.120
Totally different.
00:09:17.360 --> 00:09:18.000
It is.
00:09:18.399 --> 00:09:35.840
I do feel like the Western states CCC double is one of the ones that more athletes have shown is possible than any other combo with Western states, you know, like Western states UTMB, Western States Occ.
00:09:36.320 --> 00:09:39.039
There have been athletes who have succeeded at both of those.
00:09:40.080 --> 00:09:43.759
But there have been more athletes who have not.
00:09:44.399 --> 00:10:01.200
And Western State CCC is closer in terms of time on feet that you race leading into another race that's similar time on feet, similar amounts of elevation, similar effort that you put out.
00:10:01.279 --> 00:10:04.960
It's just a different uh profile of race.
00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:12.159
So I I I see why we get so many athletes focusing on both.
00:10:12.240 --> 00:10:16.399
And you know, you like you said, like there's there's the American bias too.
00:10:16.480 --> 00:10:20.080
And I don't know what like European professional contracts look like.
00:10:20.480 --> 00:10:25.679
Like how do these brands emphasize bonuses at something like Western states over CCC?
00:10:25.840 --> 00:10:32.480
But I know that there's a huge financial incentive to do Western states for most of these American athletes.
00:10:32.799 --> 00:10:39.440
And there's equal or greater financial incentive to also do CCC.
00:10:39.919 --> 00:10:52.320
So then it's hard to, I don't know, looking at it from the lens of a professional athlete who needs to make a living in this sport, if it's easier to do Western states if you're going to get paid a lot of money to do it.
00:10:52.559 --> 00:10:56.879
One of the stated goals of the Golden Ticket series when they expanded outside the U.S.
00:10:56.960 --> 00:11:02.399
was that they wanted to give, they wanted to create more opportunities for international athletes to race close to home into Western.
00:11:02.480 --> 00:11:06.320
And like we talked with Tony McCann a few days ago, and she's based out of Annecy.
00:11:06.639 --> 00:11:11.279
And I I believe she is looking for a ticket possibly this time around.
00:11:11.360 --> 00:11:15.200
And you know, her her thinking is look, this is this race is 90 minutes from my house.
00:11:15.279 --> 00:11:17.279
This is like a backyard race, this is the perfect form.
00:11:17.519 --> 00:11:23.519
But but I would, and maybe this is like a Travis at Free Trail question, or it's it's an aid station fireball question.
00:11:24.159 --> 00:11:30.399
Because at UTMB when it was a golden ticket race and CCC when it was a golden ticket race, there have been a lot of drop downs.
00:11:30.480 --> 00:11:34.559
There has there has been a lot of movement in terms of like the top three don't necessarily take their tickets.
00:11:34.639 --> 00:11:35.120
Yeah.
00:11:35.360 --> 00:11:45.919
When it comes to like Americans who have gotten those spots or Europeans or other international athletes, I would love to know the stats around like who has forfeited those tickets.
00:11:46.080 --> 00:11:58.399
And more often than not, has it been international athletes who are like, I don't actually care that much about Western states versus I mean, like I know like if like Drew declined it last year and it rolled down the Jesh, but like historically, since these two have been in play, what's that been like?
00:11:58.559 --> 00:12:01.120
Like are they actually using their opportunities?
00:12:01.759 --> 00:12:03.200
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
00:12:03.279 --> 00:12:10.240
And I know I think that that lends to the championship nature of CCC.
00:12:10.720 --> 00:12:13.759
This race is way more than just a golden ticket race.
00:12:14.320 --> 00:12:17.679
If it weren't a golden ticket race, we would still be doing a preview about it.
00:12:17.919 --> 00:12:22.000
It would still it would still have this deep of a feel.
00:12:22.159 --> 00:12:23.279
Yes, that's a good point.
00:12:23.440 --> 00:12:29.919
If if this wasn't a golden ticket race, are there any names that you have written down that you don't think would be on it?
00:12:31.120 --> 00:12:33.840
Because I feel like most of these people would still be running the race.
00:12:36.480 --> 00:12:44.799
I don't think that the golden ticket, the presence or the presence or non-presence of a golden ticket has any impact on who's on these star lists.
00:12:45.120 --> 00:12:47.440
People are here because it's CCC.
00:12:48.080 --> 00:12:49.600
It's its own end still.
00:12:49.840 --> 00:12:50.399
Yep.
00:12:50.799 --> 00:12:52.240
Yeah, I agree.
00:12:52.559 --> 00:12:53.919
Let me okay.
00:12:54.159 --> 00:12:58.480
I created lists of like the top Americans, male and female, that are lined up here.
00:12:58.559 --> 00:13:10.799
I want to go through the Americans first, and I want to get I want to get your read on like the the general takeaway from these groups, whether you think that they're like podium contenders for the win, top ten, like just generally first what you think.
00:13:10.879 --> 00:13:21.679
So on the men's side, we've got Adam Peterman, Hans Troyer, Eli Hemming, Dakota Jones, Kellen Bloomberg, Tim Reid, La Puma, Gavin Pryor, Adam Loomis, Zach Perrin.
00:13:21.759 --> 00:13:24.720
Those are like the top guys on the American side.
00:13:26.159 --> 00:13:28.320
As a group, what do you think about their potential?
00:13:29.279 --> 00:13:35.600
As a group, it's it's um I would say it's a pretty wide range.
00:13:35.840 --> 00:13:42.000
You know, we have someone like Adam Peterman who's podiumed this race.
00:13:42.720 --> 00:13:55.279
We've got you know, big people who finished with like I was Eli, Adam, Dakota, Eric La Puma have all finished within the top ten of this race before.
00:13:55.440 --> 00:13:55.759
Yep.
00:13:56.000 --> 00:14:08.000
And then we have a handful of very good Americans who are I I imagine they would be seeing this as an opportunity to like springboard themselves.
00:14:08.159 --> 00:14:12.320
Um like like maybe Gavin Pryor should go off the front.
00:14:12.480 --> 00:14:12.799
Yeah.
00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:15.840
Get that airtime, get that airtime, too.
00:14:16.480 --> 00:14:17.600
Like this this why not?
00:14:17.759 --> 00:14:18.480
It's an opportunity.
00:14:18.639 --> 00:14:21.039
There's a ton of eyeballs on this race.
00:14:21.200 --> 00:14:22.720
So many people watch CCC.
00:14:22.960 --> 00:14:28.720
I would just remind people that this is precisely where Caleb Olson built the early stages of his career, 21 and 22.
00:14:28.799 --> 00:14:30.639
I think in 22 he was the top American here.
00:14:30.720 --> 00:14:30.879
Yeah.
00:14:31.039 --> 00:14:37.519
And that was sort of the springboard for confidence, momentum, you know, storybook after that.
00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:38.240
Yeah.
00:14:38.399 --> 00:14:47.600
I mean, if you can if you can make a name for yourself, you know, out here that's people are brands, every every brand is here.
00:14:47.919 --> 00:15:00.480
It seems like every time I walk downtown in Chamonix, one of these storefronts is now a commercial for a new brand, and whatever was there originally year-round has decided to go on vacation.
00:15:02.159 --> 00:15:10.320
I think I think I think this entire group is capable of breaking into the top ten.
00:15:10.799 --> 00:15:17.840
If I had to get more specific, I think Adam, Hans, and Eli are the guys that can get there to the podium.
00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:20.159
You know, Eli seventh last year.
00:15:20.240 --> 00:15:21.759
Adam has already had a podium here.
00:15:22.080 --> 00:15:28.559
Hans, I believe, is a superstar, so I think it it just warrants that belief, although he is new on the European scene.
00:15:28.799 --> 00:15:32.639
The big, the big dark horse, I think, in this American men's group is Zach Perrin.
00:15:32.879 --> 00:15:43.919
He's uh maybe one of the more like unsung members of that Missoula training group, runs alongside Jeff McGavaro, Adam Peterman, McKenna, Jen, great talent, Ranit Boulder.
00:15:44.399 --> 00:15:45.759
He just hasn't like popped off.
00:15:46.320 --> 00:15:47.200
Hasn't popped yet.
00:15:47.360 --> 00:15:50.080
But like I think it I he he he trains with those guys.
00:15:50.240 --> 00:15:54.799
So I mean, I just think being in that environment, it's gonna it's gonna be there at some point.
00:15:55.440 --> 00:16:08.480
Do you think a race like CCC has an easier or harder barrier to entry in regards to success as a non-professional?
00:16:08.720 --> 00:16:22.639
We've talked about this at Western States where being a professional runner where you can really dial in, like you can have two crews all the kiddie pools of ice, blah blah blah.
00:16:22.720 --> 00:16:24.559
Like that's an advantage.
00:16:25.279 --> 00:16:30.159
There's less of that here, yeah, but there's definitely more of an experience element.
00:16:30.399 --> 00:16:32.879
But is it almost easier then in a way?
00:16:32.960 --> 00:16:39.200
For is it is it more level, like more even because there's less outside help at a race like that?
00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:39.919
I see what you're saying.
00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:43.759
Yeah, like everyone is kind of left to their own devices, there's no pacers.
00:16:44.240 --> 00:16:47.120
Um, it's a much more ruthless environment than like a Black Canyon.
00:16:47.360 --> 00:16:54.399
Is CCC is is like UTMB week actually the series of races where the random ballers should be at?
00:16:54.639 --> 00:16:55.759
It's pretty democratic.
00:16:55.919 --> 00:16:59.120
I think it's it's one of the most democratic environments to have success.
00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:09.839
I think the tough, the tough thing about UTMB week in general, and I think CC CCC specifically, is you can have an amazing race here and finish 21st.
00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:12.079
That's definitely the big caveat.
00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:16.720
You can have an amazing it on pay like it is an amazing race and it gets lost in the sauce.
00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:17.519
For sure.
00:17:17.599 --> 00:17:17.920
Yeah.
00:17:18.079 --> 00:17:29.920
You yeah, maybe it's more even, more democratic in regards to the resources out there, but you have to have an even better race than at most other races.
00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:42.000
Okay, this women's contingent uh from the American side, Jen Lichter, Robin Lesh, Helen Mino Faulkner, Sarah Aliban, Claire Rhodes, Danny Moreno, Lindsay Allison, Aaron Clark, Jenna Besco.
00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:45.680
That's a Yeah, that's a legit.
00:17:46.400 --> 00:17:51.759
Do we know yet if Claire Rhodes is going to race?
00:17:52.079 --> 00:17:55.759
Okay, so for the audience that doesn't know, she was attacked by a bear on a training.
00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:56.640
Like a week ago.
00:17:56.880 --> 00:17:57.680
Like a week ago.
00:17:57.920 --> 00:18:00.319
Which again, like thoughts, hope she's doing okay.
00:18:00.559 --> 00:18:03.200
It sounds like she was able to get out of it with I mean, bites.
00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:04.240
There was bite marks, I think.
00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:09.680
It was like it was like either like one deep bite or one deep claw mark somewhere in her leg.
00:18:09.920 --> 00:18:13.119
Which And obviously the psychological trauma that comes with that.
00:18:13.359 --> 00:18:14.480
That's the biggie, yeah.
00:18:14.559 --> 00:18:16.160
I mean that yeah.
00:18:16.400 --> 00:18:22.960
And you know, obviously health first, we wish her the best, but um, if she's here, she's she's one of the best in the sport right now on the American side.
00:18:23.200 --> 00:18:23.680
100%.
00:18:25.440 --> 00:18:27.839
Yeah, there's I mean, I'm trying to think.
00:18:27.920 --> 00:18:35.920
I was like, I think the I think there's potential for more American women to be in the top ten than American men.
00:18:36.400 --> 00:18:42.000
Okay, because my my thought was that historically had amazing performances at CCC on the American women's side.
00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:42.720
True.
00:18:42.880 --> 00:18:51.119
I mean, I was thinking from this women's group that we're more likely to see somewhat a winner out of this group, but less likely to see the depth of the top ten.
00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:58.559
I think on the men's side, we have more American men who are going to try to win the race.
00:18:59.039 --> 00:19:03.839
As a result, there will be less American men in the top ten, but there might be a winner.
00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:12.640
Whereas on the women's side, there's you know, I would say Jen Lichter is one of the absolute favorites to win this race.
00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:25.759
And I'm curious if, you know, like Danny, Robin, Helen, will they be at the very, very front of that group?
00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:37.119
In your mind, is is Jen, do we defer to Jen as much in this race because of her 2026 season as we would for Tobey heading into OCC?
00:19:37.279 --> 00:19:39.440
Like, is she that automatic, do you think?
00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:45.519
Yeah, I mean, at this point, I feel like yes.
00:19:45.680 --> 00:20:06.240
I mean, we're looking at it, Jen, like if we go back to last year, you know, course record at Speed Goat, unfortunate DNS at worlds, but then that led into massive course record of Black Canyon, massive course record of Western states.
00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:12.480
Like you win those two in course records, especially Western states.
00:20:13.440 --> 00:20:16.240
I am absolutely because we talked about this after Black Canyon.
00:20:16.319 --> 00:20:21.680
We're like, okay, after Black Canyon, do we put Jen in the if she's on the star line?
00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:28.720
We're talking about will we're not talking about will she win, but we're talking about how could somebody beat her?
00:20:29.920 --> 00:20:33.839
I think I said let's revisit that after Western States.
00:20:34.319 --> 00:20:40.640
Now that Western States happened, I think that's absolutely the conversation now for CCC.
00:20:42.319 --> 00:20:47.200
How does somebody beat Jen at CCC?
00:20:47.599 --> 00:20:48.799
I think she's that good.
00:20:49.599 --> 00:20:52.000
Same with Tobey for OCC.
00:20:52.559 --> 00:20:58.960
One storyline that makes sense to throw in here, I wrote down was will we see a big result out of Helamino Faulkner?
00:20:59.279 --> 00:21:04.799
From 2023 through 2025, I would argue she was one of the best on the American scene.
00:21:05.119 --> 00:21:17.119
Tough worlds last year, and I I don't think that the results so far this year are representative of her talent, but she's podium tiered before, and it was back in 2023, and that season was ridiculous.
00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:18.559
It was kind of like a gen season.
00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:23.920
Big win at Speed Goat 50K, ran like 609, won the broken arrow 46k.
00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:28.319
I can't remember the time exactly, and then that CCC win.
00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:33.440
So, like in a three-month stretch, it was broken arrow of speedgoat CCC, just amazing.
00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:38.319
Um and I think she's focused on like this does seem to be the thing that she's peeking for.
00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:52.000
But yeah, you talked about just like the pedigree of some of these American women, and you know, I think if you had asked me back in 2023, like, is Helen on the trajectory to win this event one day, I would have said yes automatically, and I still think it can be the case.
00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:59.440
But uh yeah, I think like even if Jen is that sort of like you defer to Jen, she's sort of that automatic candidate.
00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:02.960
Uh, I think Helen can be right there too.
00:22:03.519 --> 00:22:05.039
Yeah, I agree.
00:22:05.279 --> 00:22:11.680
And, you know, the the biggest argument for Jen is just the more recent A plus race results.
00:22:11.920 --> 00:22:12.559
Yes.
00:22:13.119 --> 00:22:24.079
And, you know, we've talked about this before, too, is you know, not only do you have to improve if you want to win this race, you know, you have to get better than you were the year before, but the sport is also progressing.
00:22:24.160 --> 00:22:29.839
So you have to figure out how to get better at a faster rate than the sport is naturally progressing.
00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:33.599
And that seems to be getting increasingly harder to do.
00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:34.240
Okay.
00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:41.680
Next thing here Western States crossovers, just to name a few: Dan Jones, Tomak Harden, Adam Peterman, Hans Troyer.
00:22:42.160 --> 00:22:44.240
Talked about Jan Lichter earlier.
00:22:45.279 --> 00:22:46.160
Let's talk about this.
00:22:46.240 --> 00:22:56.720
Like I think you mentioned earlier that uh you like this, you you might like this Western State CCC double a little bit more than you like that and the UTMB double, or it fits better.
00:22:56.960 --> 00:23:03.440
I think it fits better in terms of taking the training from states and turning it into training for CCC.
00:23:03.839 --> 00:23:09.039
You know, of course, it you still have the recovery aspect from Western states no matter what.
00:23:09.200 --> 00:23:20.160
And I don't even I don't think that it's easier to run CCC after Western states because if you're ready to run, if you're ready to race, you're ready to race.
00:23:20.319 --> 00:23:30.480
I think the the part that's harder for something like UTMB is you have to do actually quite a bit different training to get ready for a 20-hour race.
00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:34.880
Whereas this one's just a few hours shorter than Western states.
00:23:35.359 --> 00:23:39.920
Also because the similar effort, you you don't have to there's not as much hiking.
00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:44.880
I mean, I think Hayden, the last year he won, he ran just about every single step.
00:23:44.960 --> 00:23:50.079
Um, like looking at Estrava, there was no hike blips, and if it was, it was just like a few steps.
00:23:50.240 --> 00:24:00.400
So we're getting to the point where you're not walking much of CCC anymore, which is kind of insane, but like that's just that's just where the sport's at.
00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:05.039
And you know, you're not no one no one's walking Western states anymore either.
00:24:05.200 --> 00:24:08.799
So that's at least one thing that you don't have to worry about nearly as much.
00:24:08.960 --> 00:24:14.319
Francesco uh Francesco Poopy won CCC without polls.
00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:14.640
Yep.
00:24:14.799 --> 00:24:16.799
Hayden's won CCC without poles.
00:24:17.680 --> 00:24:21.680
You don't have to use polls at CCC if you're looking to win this race.
00:24:21.920 --> 00:24:27.200
So that's one less thing that you have to figure out between states and and now.
00:24:28.480 --> 00:24:39.599
The so yeah, like on the men's side, the the four main western states doublers, Hans and Dan Jones, they're coming off of DNFs.
00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:46.400
We've al I've always been curious how much a DNF can help or hurt recovery.
00:24:46.480 --> 00:24:48.640
I think a lot of that comes down to like the reason for the DNF.
00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:50.799
Maybe more physically, fresh mentally.
00:24:50.880 --> 00:24:53.839
You're worried mentally, like, are they any do they lose any confidence?
00:24:54.160 --> 00:24:55.759
Yeah, you take a big mental hit.
00:24:55.920 --> 00:25:03.839
Physically, you might be better because you only put in like 60 miles in the legs or 65 plus 10 of walking.
00:25:04.079 --> 00:25:08.079
But then you have someone like Tomas, who got fourth, ran 1407.
00:25:08.160 --> 00:25:13.519
It states, everyone said he looked amazing, you know, the next day afterwards, even all the way through the race.
00:25:13.599 --> 00:25:15.279
We saw him and he looked fantastic.
00:25:15.359 --> 00:25:17.599
He didn't look like a zombie out there.
00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:24.240
So we put in the full hundred miles of effort, but maybe no big bonks.
00:25:24.319 --> 00:25:27.039
You know, you do a big nutritional bonk, that slows down the recovery.
00:25:27.119 --> 00:25:32.000
So maybe Toma's actually gonna recover at the same rate as someone who dropped out at Forest Hill.
00:25:32.319 --> 00:25:39.279
I would love to know the hit rate for if if you DNF, especially if you DNF Western.
00:25:39.920 --> 00:25:45.839
Or we could even throw in the category of people like Adam a few years ago, who tufts it out and you know ran around 24 hours.
00:25:45.920 --> 00:25:52.480
Like that cohort of people, what is their hit rate if they run it back at CCC or UTMB or OCC?
00:25:52.720 --> 00:25:53.039
Yeah.
00:25:53.200 --> 00:25:57.359
Like, is there actually some sort of benefit there of calling your race early or not?
00:25:57.440 --> 00:25:57.839
You know?
00:25:58.160 --> 00:25:58.559
Totally.
00:25:58.640 --> 00:25:58.799
Yeah.
00:25:58.960 --> 00:26:02.160
And and then there's all four of you.
00:26:02.240 --> 00:26:13.200
So Hans, Dan, Tomah, Adam, they all could have just not run a single step between Western states and now, and they're for sure healthy, they're for sure fresh, but now you're not fit.
00:26:13.839 --> 00:26:14.720
Let me ask you this.
00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:16.240
Okay, let's let's do so.
00:26:19.359 --> 00:26:23.599
Fantastic races this year at Western, Hans and Dan, DNF.
00:26:23.680 --> 00:26:27.279
So you've got the DNF camp, you've got the camp that had a great performance.
00:26:27.599 --> 00:26:32.319
Which group do you think is do you suspect will have a better result at CCC?
00:26:33.200 --> 00:26:37.359
I'm gonna go with the the Toma Adam camp.
00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:38.000
Okay.
00:26:38.559 --> 00:26:49.200
I I think the Adam as well finished Western states off really good vibes, didn't appear to be fully trashed afterwards.
00:26:49.519 --> 00:26:50.240
No, definitely not.
00:26:50.400 --> 00:26:54.319
And that that that's not to say he didn't race Western states all out.
00:26:54.480 --> 00:26:55.279
I know he did.
00:26:55.599 --> 00:27:13.200
But in today's age of running, if you race all out and you do the nutritional part correctly, the footwear has gotten so much better, the hydration's gotten better, your recovery is faster because you are already kind of jumpstarting the recovery process during the race.
00:27:13.599 --> 00:27:21.519
You do recover from these races better when you are not super glycogen depleted for the last eight hours of the race.
00:27:21.839 --> 00:27:29.599
So I'm gonna go with Toma and Adam over Hans and Dan for those reasons.
00:27:29.839 --> 00:27:31.200
Two more storylines here.
00:27:31.279 --> 00:27:41.599
First, three former champs on this start line: Tony McCann from 2024, Ingvilde from 2023, and Yao Miao from 2018.
00:27:42.160 --> 00:27:48.799
Brett, of these three former champions on the women's side, who you put the most stock in and why?
00:27:49.039 --> 00:27:54.000
I also want to acknowledge that up until like two days ago, we had four former champions.
00:27:54.240 --> 00:27:57.519
Yes, Martina Milnarchik is no longer on the start list.
00:27:57.759 --> 00:28:02.079
Yes, she disappeared from the start list last last night or two nights ago.
00:28:02.480 --> 00:28:02.880
Yeah.
00:28:03.119 --> 00:28:08.559
Um but we have three former champions.
00:28:09.759 --> 00:28:16.640
I did not even realize that Meow Yao had won CCC eight years ago.
00:28:17.039 --> 00:28:18.000
2018.
00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:18.559
Yeah.
00:28:18.799 --> 00:28:21.519
And then went and won OCC twice in the early 2020s.
00:28:21.680 --> 00:28:27.599
Yeah, Meow Yao has had a almost as a dynamic of career arc as Dakota Jones.
00:28:27.839 --> 00:28:28.160
Yes.
00:28:28.319 --> 00:28:37.680
Um, a lot of people don't do long stuff early, go to short, go back long, and then like go short again.
00:28:37.839 --> 00:28:42.079
You just don't see that rise it with the success as well.
00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:48.880
Meow Yao has been the best in the world at almost everything she's decided to do.
00:28:49.200 --> 00:29:00.880
So I one can only hope that well, I'm I'm very excited for the Meow Yao Gen Lichter rematch from Gorge uh to CCC.
00:29:02.240 --> 00:29:06.240
We'll talk about yeah, we should dive into like who you give the advantage to there.
00:29:06.799 --> 00:29:10.960
Um I would love to see Meow Yao Western States too.
00:29:11.440 --> 00:29:11.759
Yes.
00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:14.160
I think that would be sick.
00:29:15.680 --> 00:29:22.000
But it seems like so Jen beat Meow Meow at the Gorge 50k.
00:29:23.359 --> 00:29:27.039
But Miao is a CCC champion.
00:29:27.440 --> 00:29:28.720
She knows how to win this race.
00:29:28.960 --> 00:29:30.720
And she's very familiar with these tricks.
00:29:31.039 --> 00:29:33.839
2018 broke 12 hours, which that was a big deal eight years ago.
00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:34.240
Yeah.
00:29:34.400 --> 00:29:35.279
That was a big deal.
00:29:36.319 --> 00:29:41.359
So from an experience standpoint, I'm picking Meow Yao over Jen.
00:29:41.759 --> 00:29:50.880
From a recent results and just like momentum standpoint, I think I would give I would give Jen the edge over Meow Meow.
00:29:51.359 --> 00:29:57.039
I think from this former champions group, I definitely have the most stock in Meow.
00:29:57.759 --> 00:30:04.160
I, you know, we we had Tony in studio a few days ago, and Tony appears to be in a great headspace.
00:30:04.319 --> 00:30:10.160
Obviously, he's a very talented runner, and you know, huge, huge, huge win here back in 24.
00:30:10.240 --> 00:30:14.799
I think alongside Helamino Faulkner, like that 2023 to 2024 stretch was just fantastic.
00:30:15.359 --> 00:30:28.880
The only question I really have about Tony is like the motivation to be here because I know she talked at the end of the year in various podcasts just about like maybe just being a little burnt out on like the UTMB World Series treadmill.
00:30:29.119 --> 00:30:35.039
So it's really hard to find like the motivation and the excitement to come back here a second time, let alone third time.
00:30:35.119 --> 00:30:37.359
And that's not uncommon among top athletes.
00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:51.440
I mean, you know, Caleb's talked about that with Western states and stuff, but uh I do think that that stuff does go a long way or matters a lot when everyone on that start line is so physically talented, and you it really does come down to like self-belief and how much drive you have out there.
00:30:51.519 --> 00:30:53.440
So I think that's my only asterisk for Tony.
00:30:53.519 --> 00:30:57.920
Although I will say if you go listen to that interview, you don't find any evidence that that's still the case.
00:30:58.000 --> 00:31:01.119
Like I think she does seem excited to be here and has found a good why.
00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:02.400
Absolutely.
00:31:02.640 --> 00:31:08.559
Other question mark is Ingvil Kasperson and how recovered is she from States?
00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:14.720
Because we were talking about, you know, just like we had talked about with the the four men who have run who are doubling back.
00:31:15.039 --> 00:31:21.279
Ingvil nearly put in the full distance of Western States and had to unfortunately drop.
00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:21.440
Yeah.
00:31:21.680 --> 00:31:23.680
So that's like kind of the double wham we dropped.
00:31:23.920 --> 00:31:25.200
Did she drop at Roby Point?
00:31:25.440 --> 00:31:35.680
Well, so she dropped at No Hands Bridge and then got driven to Roby Point to mark the official drop because there is no spot, there's no one to notify a No Hands.
00:31:35.920 --> 00:31:47.599
So it on paper, it looks like she dropped at Roby Point, but her like it sounded like her body and her legs like completely quit on her at that point.
00:31:47.839 --> 00:31:52.079
So yeah, you just have to wonder like what was the recovery time from that?
00:31:52.319 --> 00:31:54.960
How well are you able to get the legs back under you?
00:31:55.119 --> 00:31:56.960
So big question mark there.
00:31:57.200 --> 00:32:10.799
We know that the ability is there, you know, looking at uh Herchianti performance, going toe to toe with Courtney and Rachel, yep, right in that big trio.
00:32:10.880 --> 00:32:15.279
So it's like you have a performance like that, you're looking at winning this race.
00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:15.680
Yes.
00:32:16.880 --> 00:32:26.559
So yeah, that's it's not too often do we get people who are worse at losing?
00:32:28.319 --> 00:32:32.000
You know, it's like you don't get that many people that win the majority of their races.
00:32:32.079 --> 00:32:38.720
And we have like at least four women in this race who normally win, they are used to winning.
00:32:39.279 --> 00:32:41.519
So how does that dynamic play out?
00:32:41.680 --> 00:32:48.559
Like, who who do you see as the one taking the reins and controlling this race?
00:32:48.880 --> 00:33:00.000
Just one more thing I wanted to say about Engvilde, and it's a race that uh unfortunately we couldn't watch on a live stream because I think uh that Tenerife Blue Trail race where they were gonna have the live stream at UTMB was that whole race was canceled.
00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:07.839
They didn't port things over to Chianti, but Engvilde was a part of that start-to-finish race with Courtney and Rachel for the podium, which was incredible.
00:33:07.920 --> 00:33:12.960
And that was that was a fantastic performance out of Engvilde, so I think it's there, and we've seen evidence of it in 2026.
00:33:13.359 --> 00:33:19.279
So actually, the more I think about it, like these former champions, I mean, I think it's gonna that that sub-narrative in this race is gonna be fantastic.
00:33:19.440 --> 00:33:20.799
Oh yeah, it's gonna be amazing.
00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:26.079
And yeah, I'm really curious, like who's the one that's g at the front?
00:33:26.240 --> 00:33:30.720
You know, someone has to be in the lead after the first, well, after the start.
00:33:31.039 --> 00:33:33.839
I I would be shocked if it's not Jen, put it that way.
00:33:34.079 --> 00:33:35.119
I think I agree with you.
00:33:35.440 --> 00:33:42.400
I I feel so CCC, actually the start, is one of the more bottleneck-y starts.
00:33:42.880 --> 00:33:43.200
Insane.
00:33:43.440 --> 00:33:46.240
More so way more so than OCC or UTMB.
00:33:46.720 --> 00:34:04.640
So, and and we talked about this a little bit, but you you've run CCC and you talked about the controlled, purposeful early match burning in the start and on that first climb for positioning, and how it's not necessarily a linear effort.
00:34:04.880 --> 00:34:05.279
Absolutely.
00:34:05.440 --> 00:34:15.840
I think that doing a couple VO2 max intervals in those first two miles to gain position before that switchback, really tight, narrow switchback trail climb is essential.
00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:22.320
Like there's there's there's a funnel even on the roads there, it's those narrow Italian roads, there's a funnel at the very start of the race.
00:34:22.480 --> 00:34:26.880
And then once you get to the trail, it's like game over, you've lost position at least until the top of that climb.
00:34:26.960 --> 00:34:28.559
It's almost impossible to pass.
00:34:29.199 --> 00:34:37.760
So then we're looking at some of these runners who are maybe less of the like diesel engine grinded out kind of runners, and like who can float between the paces.
00:34:37.840 --> 00:34:46.559
And and, you know, two runners that I'm confident have that ability are Jen Lichter and Miao Yao.
00:34:46.800 --> 00:34:47.360
Yeah.
00:34:47.679 --> 00:34:50.960
Where they can they're both pretty fast.
00:34:51.199 --> 00:35:03.840
You know, they might be have they might have an easier time getting out and positioning themselves a little harder and then get to settle in and pick and choose when to use the rest of the effort.
00:35:04.719 --> 00:35:05.039
Okay.
00:35:05.599 --> 00:35:09.599
Before we get into the fields, very last storyline that I want to get your take on here.
00:35:09.679 --> 00:35:15.519
And I I think one one of the things that's cool about the current era is okay, the name Hans Troyer.
00:35:15.760 --> 00:35:21.840
We have an athlete in the modern era like Hans, who's a superstar, but also like a prolific content creator.
00:35:22.079 --> 00:35:30.480
So he's built like in addition to just the fanfare that you get by winning these races and just being a prominent athlete, he's also built a YouTube channel and has like a massive fan base.
00:35:30.800 --> 00:35:35.119
So I think he will be one of the top two or three storylines in the entire race.
00:35:35.199 --> 00:35:38.800
And I think the overarching question for me is can he bounce back?
00:35:39.119 --> 00:35:46.079
And what I want to hear from you is whether that's a yes or a no, and build one of the two cases for whether he does or he doesn't.
00:35:46.159 --> 00:35:48.719
Like what would happen if he does, what would happen if he doesn't?
00:35:48.880 --> 00:35:50.159
What does it take?
00:35:50.639 --> 00:35:56.639
I think we need to define what bouncing back for Hans is.
00:35:57.760 --> 00:36:04.320
Some people are gonna there's people out there who are gonna expect Hans to win this race, and that's the bounce back.
00:36:04.639 --> 00:36:05.760
Hans expects to win this race.
00:36:05.920 --> 00:36:07.679
I don't think that's the only bounce back, though.
00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:13.360
I think if Hans finishes this race in the top ten, that's a good bounce back.
00:36:13.760 --> 00:36:14.559
I'm very happy with that.
00:36:14.719 --> 00:36:16.239
First European race, top ten.
00:36:16.719 --> 00:36:17.440
I'm happy.
00:36:18.400 --> 00:36:22.159
The and he's only lived in the mountains for like three months.
00:36:22.400 --> 00:36:27.119
He moved to Boulder in uh what March or something.
00:36:27.440 --> 00:36:29.199
That's been that's more than three months.
00:36:29.440 --> 00:36:35.679
But yeah, he hasn't he Georgia prior to that, and now and then Boulder since March.
00:36:36.639 --> 00:36:46.480
It's just not a lot of years of mountain seasoning, you know, referencing the Ludo cast iron skillet of seasoning the quads.
00:36:46.880 --> 00:36:48.400
Hans doesn't have that yet.
00:36:48.480 --> 00:36:52.719
He's like shiny stainless steel, which isn't bad.
00:36:53.199 --> 00:36:54.800
Or the non-stick pants.
00:36:55.440 --> 00:37:03.199
No, no one wants Teflon out here that scratches so easily and leeches microplastics into the rivers.
00:37:03.519 --> 00:37:04.480
No Teflon.
00:37:06.400 --> 00:37:07.440
Where was I going?
00:37:07.519 --> 00:37:07.920
Oh, yeah.
00:37:08.079 --> 00:37:08.400
Sorry.
00:37:08.559 --> 00:37:14.639
That's why I think a good, a great bounce back for Hans would be finish the race, compete, top ten.
00:37:15.199 --> 00:37:18.239
Any, you know, winning, obviously, icing for sure.
00:37:18.400 --> 00:37:22.719
But I don't think a ninth place CCC finish is a failure by any means.
00:37:24.159 --> 00:37:28.480
I just suspect that like Hans's competitive DNA is too much.
00:37:28.639 --> 00:37:36.400
I just I just don't want it to, I don't want that to dig a hole, like a bigger hole.
00:37:36.480 --> 00:37:43.360
Like I don't want it to be like a if I'm not winning the race, you know, I'm gonna I'm stopping.
00:37:43.519 --> 00:37:46.639
I don't want dropping out to become a habit.
00:37:47.360 --> 00:37:51.119
And I think this is a great opportunity to make sure that it doesn't become a habit.
00:37:51.440 --> 00:37:56.639
We got to see this firsthand because we're we're tossing the rock with him in the driveway of our Western State Studio.
00:37:56.719 --> 00:37:58.000
But Hans is a great athlete.
00:37:58.159 --> 00:38:11.599
Like he's not just a good runner, he has hand-eye coordination, he's a great disc golfer, he's a great basketball player, he's got handles, you can throw like and I say that because I think I think in terms of the there is going to be a learning curve.
00:38:11.679 --> 00:38:13.119
There is a learning curve happening.
00:38:13.280 --> 00:38:19.840
He's had to learn to hike, focus more on time on feet than just like speed and miles for you know his stravograph.
00:38:19.920 --> 00:38:24.320
But like Hans is a great athlete, and I think that that will make his learning curve here faster.
00:38:24.559 --> 00:38:24.960
Agreed.
00:38:25.119 --> 00:38:31.840
Because I think he'll pick up that downhill running skill on relatively technical terrain faster, he'll climb better.
00:38:32.079 --> 00:38:36.079
Uh yeah, I think that that might not be a a known fact as much about Hans.
00:38:36.239 --> 00:38:37.199
He's a great athlete.
00:38:37.440 --> 00:38:46.960
Yeah, and that absolutely is going to speed up the learning curve, especially when it just comes down to proper foot placement.
00:38:47.119 --> 00:38:50.400
We see people all the time fall on these trails.
00:38:50.800 --> 00:38:59.599
And most of that's due to just not paying attention or the brain and the body's not working as well as they should be when you get tired.
00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:05.440
Someone with that extra coordination, yeah, they're just going to fare a little bit better.
00:39:05.599 --> 00:39:08.800
So yeah, does that mean winning the race?
00:39:08.960 --> 00:39:09.920
I just don't know.
00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:12.960
I think there's a lot of big firepower which we can dive into.
00:39:13.199 --> 00:39:17.920
But can you actually see Hans early in the race being putting himself in like 12th place?
00:39:18.079 --> 00:39:22.320
No, he's way too fast and he's way too young and way too fit to do that.
00:39:22.639 --> 00:39:23.519
He's too young and fit.
00:39:23.679 --> 00:39:26.480
Yeah, he will be in the front group.
00:39:26.559 --> 00:39:34.480
Like where the lead bike is when they pan to the alleyway and it's five wide, Hans will be one of them.
00:39:34.800 --> 00:39:45.280
Mensfield returns four of last year's top ten or back, Meng Gwang Fu in sixth, Eli Hemming seventh, Rollins who took eighth, and Mario Almedo, who took ninth.
00:39:46.320 --> 00:39:51.519
I'm gonna give you a list of prohibitive favorites, and I'd love to know if I missed anyone.
00:39:51.679 --> 00:39:58.559
We got Ben Rubial, Christian Menoggio, Tomah Cardin, Andre Witek, Adam Peterman.
00:39:58.719 --> 00:40:04.239
I just mentioned Meng, Peter Frano, G Duo, mentioned Eli.
00:40:04.480 --> 00:40:06.880
Anyone else that you put in that favorites group?
00:40:07.039 --> 00:40:15.840
And I guess we can also say that maybe our dark horses could leech in there a little bit because I have a couple dark horses that some might see as favorites, but are there any yeah, I mean, like I would throw Tomal Cardin into that favorites group.
00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:16.400
I got Tomak.
00:40:16.480 --> 00:40:16.800
Oh, you did.
00:40:16.880 --> 00:40:16.960
Okay.
00:40:17.039 --> 00:40:17.519
I got Toma.
00:40:17.760 --> 00:40:21.119
Um no, those are definitely majority of the main behaviors.
00:40:21.199 --> 00:40:26.320
And then I have them, you know, I have a like miniature storylines for a couple of these groups.
00:40:26.480 --> 00:40:27.119
So like go ahead.
00:40:27.280 --> 00:40:32.960
Christian Minoggio, Andre Wechek, they were second and third at OCC last year.
00:40:33.039 --> 00:40:34.639
They've both moved up to CCC.
00:40:34.719 --> 00:40:34.800
Yeah.
00:40:35.039 --> 00:40:35.519
Very interesting.
00:40:35.679 --> 00:40:46.719
It seems like Christian Minoggio has been on a just a massive tear since at least for me, and maybe that's like the lack of Euro racing or viewing.
00:40:47.119 --> 00:40:57.679
But uh I was I didn't know who he was prior to OCC and after OCC, I absolutely knew who he was and watched him at Worlds and now moving up to CCC.
00:40:57.760 --> 00:41:01.280
That's yeah, I'm like, I put him in the favorites category.
00:41:01.519 --> 00:41:06.000
Um, say with same with Andre uh V Tech because he was not that far behind.
00:41:06.639 --> 00:41:17.360
Benjamin Rubio, second at the 2025 World Mountain Running or Trail Mountain Running Championships, long trail race, like second to Jim.
00:41:17.679 --> 00:41:18.000
Yes.
00:41:18.159 --> 00:41:21.119
And that was one of Jim's best races.
00:41:21.440 --> 00:41:21.840
Absolutely.
00:41:22.880 --> 00:41:23.920
Potentially of his career.
00:41:24.159 --> 00:41:26.239
Like that might have been one of the best races of his career.
00:41:26.639 --> 00:41:33.920
That OCC World's Double is one of the most impressive you know five-week stretches in our sport of all time, as far as I'm concerned.
00:41:34.559 --> 00:41:37.760
And this is the guy who came the closest to beating Jim there.
00:41:37.920 --> 00:41:38.159
Yes.
00:41:38.639 --> 00:41:45.039
If I'm him, I'm thinking if Jim was in this race, he'd be looking to win it.
00:41:46.079 --> 00:41:47.760
Jim's not, I'm gonna win.
00:41:50.400 --> 00:41:58.320
And then dropping down in distance, G Duo, who was fourth at UTMB last year, is now dropping down to OCC.
00:41:58.880 --> 00:42:03.599
So we've got an interesting dropping down to CCC, excuse me.
00:42:04.000 --> 00:42:08.480
Interesting mixture of people moving up and dropping down to this middle, middle distance.
00:42:08.880 --> 00:42:15.679
Christian Minozio was a is a 41-year-old dam keeper at 8,200 feet of elevation on alternating weeks.
00:42:15.760 --> 00:42:17.119
This is just fun kind of backstory stuff.
00:42:17.199 --> 00:42:23.519
G you mentioned G grew up herding yaks and foraging cordyceps on the Tibetan plateau.
00:42:23.920 --> 00:42:27.360
I'm trying to use that to fund his like lift into the sport.
00:42:27.679 --> 00:42:30.719
Yeah, so it's like, okay, so that that helped fund the sport.
00:42:30.800 --> 00:42:38.079
Because I was trying to figure out the parallel of like how I mean, I guess herding yaks can definitely like there's athleticism there.
00:42:38.239 --> 00:42:38.960
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:42:39.119 --> 00:42:41.119
I assuming like I'm just assuming you're doing it on foot.
00:42:41.199 --> 00:42:41.840
I think if you're doing it.
00:42:42.079 --> 00:42:42.400
I think so.
00:42:42.559 --> 00:42:42.719
Yeah.
00:42:42.880 --> 00:42:43.760
Okay, that's athletic.
00:42:43.840 --> 00:42:48.239
And then foraging cordiceps, you know, that's navigating through the woods.
00:42:48.400 --> 00:42:49.039
Yep.
00:42:49.280 --> 00:42:52.480
Um, okay, yeah, all that points to actually trail run.
00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:56.239
Dam keeper, Christian Binogio.
00:42:56.559 --> 00:43:00.559
You said he works a week on and week on, week off at 8,200 feet.
00:43:01.519 --> 00:43:07.840
I don't know what keeping a dam looks like, but working a week on, week off is an interesting work schedule.
00:43:08.079 --> 00:43:14.880
That's all right, and I I assume he's not working 24-7 for seven days straight, so there's probably time to train.
00:43:14.960 --> 00:43:27.519
But I'd be curious if there's anyone in the comments that can let me know if there's if you can still retain altitude benefits by living there for one week on and then being away from it for one week, or if that just neutralizes it out.
00:43:27.840 --> 00:43:32.400
I I just Googled Damkeeper just to see if there's any quick hit info that I could relay.
00:43:32.480 --> 00:43:36.480
And for some reason, the first result that pops up is a movie called The Damkeeper.
00:43:37.039 --> 00:43:37.840
Is it about Christian?
00:43:38.239 --> 00:43:44.719
It is about a young pig who is weighed down by an important job, but everything changes when a new classmate arrives.
00:43:45.199 --> 00:43:49.440
I have no idea why it's called the Damkeeper, but Okay, there we go.
00:43:50.159 --> 00:43:54.320
Um those all those all check.
00:43:54.400 --> 00:43:56.960
I mean, do you agree from the American side?
00:43:57.360 --> 00:43:59.679
Like in terms of just like setting aside the dark.
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:05.519
courses, do you see Adam and Eli as the two favorites from this group?
00:44:05.840 --> 00:44:06.480
I do.
00:44:08.000 --> 00:44:13.920
I'm still curious about like Eli has had a couple really great he's he's he's won 350Ks this summer.
00:44:14.000 --> 00:44:14.320
Yeah.
00:44:14.480 --> 00:44:20.159
And he appears to be kind of back in Eli hemming form nearly.
00:44:20.400 --> 00:44:25.119
You know his seventh at CCC last year was was okay for him.
00:44:25.360 --> 00:44:32.159
His even his win at OCC the year before he won the race but it was not pretty.
00:44:32.320 --> 00:44:32.480
Yeah.
00:44:32.639 --> 00:44:36.719
You know if you watch it he was like he was having heat stroke up the last climb.
00:44:36.800 --> 00:44:37.119
Right.
00:44:37.280 --> 00:44:39.920
And that's affected him ever since.
00:44:40.079 --> 00:44:45.679
And he I know that he kind of tried to retool his training.
00:44:46.159 --> 00:44:48.559
Him and Tabor have talked about it on their podcast.
00:44:49.119 --> 00:44:57.440
And it seems like they've kind of tried to go back to what they were having success with a couple years ago which was racing more, having more fun.
00:44:58.079 --> 00:45:00.719
We've seen Eli on more start lists this year than last year.
00:45:00.880 --> 00:45:01.280
Yep.
00:45:01.440 --> 00:45:05.280
And this is where they feel the most comfortable it seems like he's trending in the right direction.
00:45:05.679 --> 00:45:33.920
My biggest question mark with Eli might just come down to the weather and the high temperature like cooler weather cold wet rainy CCC Eli moves higher up in my um in my in my power rankings essentially he's like a a water Pokemon when it's raining out you know his attack gets increased by 20% but if it's sunny out defense just falls sharply.
00:45:34.559 --> 00:45:44.880
So that's my only question mark there and we're still a little bit too far out to really to make big calls on the weather although it looks like it's trending warmer right now.
00:45:45.360 --> 00:45:58.239
Seventh year last year won the Broken Arrow 46k back in June did the this is interesting did the Never Summer 60K last month in his full UTMB required gear kit I think that's really that's a really cool dress rehearsal.
00:45:58.320 --> 00:46:11.360
Yeah and I also just listened to their podcast Eli and Tabor and again if you come back to the golden ticket stuff they've talked about this apparently and you never know what happens in the moment but it seems like they are dedicated to the UTMB track.
00:46:11.440 --> 00:46:17.760
Like in the in the debate versus UTMB and Western like they pick I think their preference is to race UTMB and I think no golden tick.
00:46:18.000 --> 00:46:20.559
I don't think Eli would take a golden ticket.
00:46:20.639 --> 00:46:23.440
I think he's racing this to race it yeah which is interesting.
00:46:23.679 --> 00:46:28.559
Yeah you maybe race CCC to race CCC again next year.
00:46:29.280 --> 00:46:51.679
My Dark Horses group is Hans Troyer I mentioned Zach Perrin earlier and then I just got to give a quick shout to Kellen Bloomberg he's a Harvard data scientist on his Instagram bio it says lasagna enthusiast and we both know that real Gs move in silence like lasagna uh won the big Alta earlier this year fifth at La Freto 80k 216 Olympic trials marathoner.
00:46:51.840 --> 00:47:10.880
Not that that necessarily matters but that's I definitely I put less weight into that at a risk like the semester resume a bit yeah it's nice uh and yeah I think I think he's uh I think he's someone who I don't know if it's this year but I I do believe that within the next three to four years maybe even sooner someone like Kellen will see him as like when when you see him on a start line like yeah he's legit.
00:47:11.440 --> 00:47:19.840
Yeah couple international dark horses that some of our international listeners might be like they're not a dark horse but they are to me.
00:47:20.000 --> 00:47:51.039
Uh Nadir Meg Megwit he's trending upwards in terms of performances so you know third at Trans Vulcania second at the Lava Rate of 50k both super solid results and just you know that rate of improvement that kind of consistency in some of these beefier international mountainous courses those are all green flags for CCC.
00:47:51.519 --> 00:48:04.079
The other one that's kind of the opposite in that they've not had the best of luck here but they've had very like elite level performances c you know equivalent to a win at CCC is Dmitry Mityev.
00:48:04.159 --> 00:48:12.480
Yeah you know some of his Ultra Trail Cape Town performances I'm like okay some of those would win CCC.
00:48:12.719 --> 00:48:25.199
One TDS eight years ago one TDS eight years ago like yeah and he's he's been here multiple times so I'm really curious which version of him shows up yep at this race.
00:48:25.519 --> 00:48:37.679
You know the other yeah we I mean we talked a little bit about the bounce back of of the Western states DNFs but looking at Strava Dan Jones seems to have bounced back just fine.
00:48:37.920 --> 00:48:57.760
His training has looked amazing and Dan actually doesn't have bad races very often you know I would almost chalk western states up to I'm curious if he was sick or something because I remember when we when I was pacing Will Murray we went but went by him after force and he was just coughing yes so much.
00:48:58.000 --> 00:48:58.639
Yes.
00:48:58.880 --> 00:49:05.199
So I'm just like well maybe he just had a a thing of virus some going on during Western states.
00:49:05.280 --> 00:49:10.239
So then in a way that's easier to recover from yes and his training has looked great.
00:49:10.320 --> 00:49:17.920
So it's like okay well then if he's able to compartmentalize that and be like okay well I was just really sick you know respiratory issues.
00:49:18.480 --> 00:49:37.760
And there's a great example of like not all DNFs are created equal and some are easier to solve for and come back from even confidence wise than like oh I mean in Han's case maybe the magnitude is greater because he was out front you know on that live stream before hundreds of thousands of people for 12 hours before it unraveled exactly whereas Dan was kind of a little bit off the back the whole time.
00:49:37.920 --> 00:49:51.760
So like it was clear that he wasn't starting firing on all cylinders and it seems like the cylinder activation has been turned back on for Dan and he's just yeah he's a really fun runner to watch.
00:49:52.000 --> 00:50:15.199
One last thing before we get to the women we talked about this in our last long run archives episode I think the prompt was will we see uh a Chinese athlete podium in any of these three were you team at World Series finals and I I I believe that the best chance for this is going to happen on the men's side well actually the men's or the women's side at CCC.
00:50:15.519 --> 00:50:26.800
Uh on this men's side you've got Meng, Luo, we talked about Duo Ji, uh Bate, and so I think there's there's four guys here that I think are very capable of of podiuming here.
00:50:26.880 --> 00:50:29.679
So it's an interesting storyline I would say keep your eye on it.
00:50:29.840 --> 00:50:36.000
Absolutely and and on the women's side there's there's a large Chinese contingent there's two names that stick out.
00:50:36.079 --> 00:50:47.840
We've talked about Miao Yao a lot but then there's another name that I is is new to my radar and I think going to be new to a lot of people's radar but one that's I think pay attention to is Ling Ji Qi.
00:50:48.559 --> 00:50:50.639
She's a prolific racer.
00:50:50.880 --> 00:50:51.840
First race outside of China.
00:50:52.079 --> 00:51:28.559
First race outside of China but go look at some of those results there's a lot of wins but a lot of variability in terms of the race types for the win so she's been winning like in the same calendar year winning like a two hour sky race but also winning a 28 hour 100 miler I'm like okay if you if you got that ability to move up and down middle that CCC there you go women's field here so only two of 10 returned from last year.
00:51:28.639 --> 00:51:30.559
That's Robin Lesh and Veronica Lang.
00:51:30.639 --> 00:52:27.280
I've got the list of favorites here check my work Jennifer Lichter Yao Miao Caitlin Fielder Tony McCann Veronica Lang just mentioned her Elisa Kristen daughter Robin Fabiola Conti and I've also added in Helmino Faulkner anyone else to add to this favorites list yeah I want to just give an additional shout out to Fabiola Conti was third at uh world uh long trail last year so podium at worlds taking that into CCC is I mean that's yeah worlds last year was one of the most competitive races on the on the docket it was it was a great world so and especially with that course as well so I yeah I think Fabiola Conti is definitely one to watch out for Robin Lesh is another one where seventh year last year seventh seventh year last year and that was her first CCC.
00:52:27.440 --> 00:52:38.960
Yes so that's just the the learning curve element you know just the comfort and another year of training uh there's there's yeah there's improvements right there.
00:52:39.199 --> 00:52:44.719
The other name that I guess two other Americans we talked a little bit about Danny Moreno.
00:52:44.960 --> 00:52:50.079
I'm really curious to see how Danny does here this is I think going to be Danny's longest race.
00:52:50.480 --> 00:52:58.639
Second attempt at CCC DNF'd last year but had that sort of injury was still coming off injury is very uncertain until the last yeah like a bit of a bit of a false start.
00:52:58.880 --> 00:53:14.880
Almost didn't start yeah yeah and and in hindsight maybe shouldn't have but then Danny opened up the season at Broken Arrow with a win which we were chatting about that of like if you win broken arrow you're in world class shape.
00:53:15.519 --> 00:53:45.679
So I'm I'm excited to see Danny have another go at CCC and you know start to explore and learn these longer distances because kind of like and I and I don't know if I really anticipate Danny to be you know at the front of the field early on because there might be a little bit more reservation being the longest race etc but Danny is also one of those other runners like Jen Lichter and Miao Yao that has those extra VO2 max matches to burn.
00:53:46.559 --> 00:53:58.079
Two people I'll throw in so mentioned Veronica Lang she returns from last year really interesting progression over since this is dates back to 2022 here DNF to 11th to 5th last year.
00:53:58.239 --> 00:54:35.360
So great momentum and then we were talking yesterday about Caitlin Fielder and she's one of the most consistent high performing athletes of this generation at OCC and then obviously she's had all these great performances at Western states two top tens last or this year finally broke 16 hours which is incredible and uh which is rare just doesn't have quite that great CCC performance yet but I think I mean absolutely a favorite to me and has is just in a great spot I think in the sport and I mean I believe like if we had talked two years ago moving from OCC to CCC maybe more intimidating but like I think this is just no big deal.
00:54:35.679 --> 00:54:42.400
Did Kaylin Fielder race a by U like a UTMB World Series race after Western States last year?
00:54:42.639 --> 00:54:50.719
She did Tarweir this earlier this year and just had Or after Western States last year did she do a UTMB double up her stuff here.
00:54:51.360 --> 00:54:53.920
Because my question mark is just the the Western States recovery.
00:54:54.320 --> 00:54:59.599
Well she did she did the um she did the short trail race at World Trail Champs.
00:54:59.760 --> 00:54:59.920
Okay.
00:55:00.159 --> 00:55:01.920
Finished a tough day there 43rd.
00:55:02.159 --> 00:55:02.480
Okay.
00:55:02.639 --> 00:55:06.960
Yeah so and then came back three weeks later and won Tomp Lee.
00:55:07.519 --> 00:55:24.559
So interesting interesting end of the season so I'm just curious where the recovery's at and you know where the training's been the last eight weeks since Western States last name I've got that I want to shout out for is Aaron Clark.
00:55:24.880 --> 00:55:32.239
Aaron as a favorite I I I put her in that in that like top ten cool you know I mean she's top ten before here.
00:55:32.400 --> 00:55:39.360
Yeah but it's been a a minute since she's had as consistent looking of training as what I've seen on our Strava.
00:55:39.679 --> 00:55:47.840
And we now have seen the Missoula contingent of runners starting to become one of the strongest training groups in the U.S.
00:55:48.400 --> 00:55:57.760
And Aaron has been you know knocking out miles with you know Jen, Lichter, McKenna Morley and training's been looking really great.
00:55:57.920 --> 00:56:13.119
And even though Aaron hasn't logged like a super high caliber race result in a while she's one of those athletes that has the high pressure racing experience you know being a former you know NCAA Division I athlete where her and Lauren are two of the best.
00:56:13.199 --> 00:56:14.639
They have like real track results.
00:56:14.880 --> 00:56:19.119
Yeah so I'm not worried about the stage of this race for someone like Aaron.
00:56:19.280 --> 00:56:25.920
I think uh Aaron's probably been in higher pressure race situations than this CCC.
00:56:26.079 --> 00:56:40.800
So I'm not too worried about the fact that Aaron hasn't had a lot of recent race results but I think that's another name that we should be paying attention to just purely off of you know last few months of training alone.
00:56:41.119 --> 00:57:02.159
I've I've actually gotten to know her a little bit this summer just having been up in Missoula a few times and I think also like just to add, I think she's a really smart calculated runner too and really can run intuitively within herself and I yeah I think that the only concern for me coming to this has just been the years of injury but it it does genuinely seem like she's in a good spot and has put together consistent training.
00:57:02.480 --> 00:57:05.760
I see her very much as a as a top 10 candidate for sure.
00:57:05.920 --> 00:57:06.480
Yep.
00:57:06.800 --> 00:57:17.440
Dark horses I put Danny here and I'm I'll never doubt Danny I think she's a a gamer um and she's proven twice now that she can come back from injury and log like great broken arrow results.
00:57:17.519 --> 00:57:22.000
I just think it's the extension to 100k which is the question mark for me but I think she can do it.
00:57:22.159 --> 00:57:28.559
And then I mentioned her earlier but you know there was this sort of like young cohort of women at Canyons this year.
00:57:28.639 --> 00:57:34.639
It was her Elainey Matarisi and Sarah Humble who all finished inside the top seven at Canyons.
00:57:34.880 --> 00:57:48.800
Elainey and Sarah ended up taking the tickets but Sarah uh Sarah finished third and declined her ticket to focus on CCC and I'm really curious to see how that pays off really young too could be a future star in the sport.
00:57:49.039 --> 00:57:52.320
This could be like a Helen Mino Faulkner in 2023 type thing.
00:57:52.480 --> 00:57:56.639
So would not be surprised at all if we see her inside the top 10 on race day.
00:57:56.800 --> 00:58:01.840
It's an opportunity to launch yourself into the contract season stratosphere.
00:58:02.159 --> 00:58:07.199
This is a great race it it coincides almost perfectly with the kicking off of contracts for sure.
00:58:07.440 --> 00:58:22.719
You know because now it's the big one you crush it here going into the last quarter of 2026 and everyone's like hey remember my CCC and they're like I I do actually we were there and we saw it and it was great.
00:58:23.039 --> 00:59:00.559
And then I'll get your dark horse in question marks but my my question marks are we talked about it but Ingvilde Kasperson just because of sort of the boomer bust nature the past few years and then Claire simply because of that the bear incident yeah yeah my my question marks mostly all stem from the Western states recovery crowd especially just because of how demanding physically the race was this year with cooler temps but fast which means you trash your legs and muscle damage just that just takes time to recover from who's your women's winner and what are they what's the time?
00:59:01.599 --> 00:59:02.719
Oh actually let's do let's do both.
00:59:02.800 --> 00:59:05.280
Let's do it let's do it all once because I want to see if we if we sink or not.
00:59:05.440 --> 00:59:05.599
Okay.
00:59:05.760 --> 00:59:13.760
And we don't know this ahead of time do you yeah and I've I've I've always been really historically bad at UTMB times.
00:59:13.920 --> 00:59:17.360
So if if could you give me the winning times from last year?
00:59:17.679 --> 00:59:19.599
Uh well I'll give you the course records first.
00:59:19.760 --> 00:59:24.960
So Petra Engdahl ran 953 a few years ago which is just an otherworldly time.
00:59:25.119 --> 00:59:29.760
I think even as the sport's gotten better that time still stands as ridiculous.
00:59:29.920 --> 00:59:35.920
And then Blandine uh two years ago ran 1140 and change and that's also still the course record.
00:59:36.000 --> 00:59:37.920
Martina ran it came really close last year.
00:59:38.159 --> 00:59:38.320
Okay.
00:59:38.719 --> 00:59:52.719
Um so though I I see those two as the benchmarks and yeah I think Martina was like again I don't have at the top my notes here but it's like it was like 1141 or 42 I think and then I think the winning time uh CCC was in like the low tens.
00:59:53.440 --> 01:00:14.559
Okay well the winners I've got Jen Lichter Toma Cardin uh Jen huge course record with 1125 you know taking like 15 minutes off of it Tomah I just have sub ten written down I don't know if that's gonna be in there like it's gonna be fast one of the fastest of all time will it be sub 950?
01:00:14.639 --> 01:00:59.599
I'm not sure but I I think yeah I'm gonna go with Tomah like improving from the fourth place at Western states doubling that back to a win I I forget I forget the quote exactly but he only knows how to communicate in the form of winning the only language I I know how to communicate in is winning you know something like that yeah so I think we're gonna be hearing it loud and clear and I just I think Jen's gonna win I think Jen's gonna probably be off the front most of the time meow meow the Ingvilde Caitlin Tony they will be there but I think it's ultimately going to come down to like I always see one of the big cruxes of the of CCC being the descent off Grand Colforet.
01:00:59.760 --> 01:01:22.800
It's not that early or it's like halfway through the race but it's you know it's what is it 13 mile descent that descends 7,000 feet and it's not so like they can all descend that but it's then who is then able to climb well after that I think that's where Jen starts to really put distance on people we're the same toma cart and then Jen like for me.
01:01:22.880 --> 01:01:39.760
I've got Toma in 1002 so nine ish minutes off Petter's CR so no CR on the men's side I see Jen running 1138 so we're talking about a new course record but I will stay for the record I I think there's still on the women's side about 20 minutes to take off this course record.
01:01:39.840 --> 01:01:50.880
I think it's an impressive course record but I do think in the next few years we'll more regularly see this entire women's top 10 running in like the mid to high 11s.
01:01:51.039 --> 01:01:52.239
I think that's going to be a new standard.
01:01:52.320 --> 01:01:53.920
There's gonna be more of a Peloton there.
01:01:54.159 --> 01:01:56.000
So why did you pick Thomas?
01:01:56.320 --> 01:02:01.920
I picked Thomas because I think he is one of the most complete runners in the sport.
01:02:02.000 --> 01:02:36.480
I know that in this day of age you do just have to kind of be good at everything but I think he is better than everyone else who's good at everything to some extent and and I think again just like what I've heard from multiple people who ran alongside him at Western how effortless that performance was and the things that he was complaining about were like the smallest things like it was just like I think he was just looking for something to relate to with like Adam and he was like Adam's like oh man like my stomach hurts like I'm exhausted and Thomas like yeah man like my big toe kind of hurts he's like oh yeah my uh I sneezed back there.
01:02:36.880 --> 01:03:10.000
Exactly uh and so yeah I mean Thomas already had a complete running season similar to Jen but there's no evidence that he's not ready and I'm gonna keep betting on Toma until I hear otherwise see otherwise okay here's a question if not Toma if not Jen who probably Yao Miao on the woman's side I do think that like this is one of the three or four matchups across the week that I'm so excited to follow I think the other ones are Lauren Gregory like Lauren Gregory and McKenna as like a sub battle inside OCC.
01:03:10.400 --> 01:03:27.760
Great rivalry there um this one for sure so probably probably meow and then on the men's side I mean gosh I mean like with Andre and Christian like moving up to CCC I'm curious and be hard to bet against them.
01:03:27.920 --> 01:03:42.960
But also I think Ben probably Ben Rubial yeah I think Ben Rubial is not Toma I think Ben Rubial Ben is really good and he's French and so it's I mean we it's I don't pay as much attention to the European scene but what I've tuned into he's incredible agreed with Ben agreed.
01:03:43.360 --> 01:03:50.559
I don't think this is a I but yeah the homer me is like I would love to see Eli or Adam or Hans win.
01:03:50.719 --> 01:03:58.079
Yeah like no I would you know that I would be so stoked but I I think like my rational brain is saying that it's it's a European that that takes it here.
01:03:58.400 --> 01:04:01.039
I I think I got to agree with you on that one.
01:04:01.519 --> 01:04:24.079
Uh last thing well two things before we go one uh golden tickets who's taking the golden tickets okay men's men's took me a minute to figure out because I I started going I was like tomah cardin wins he already has an entry back to Western states if he wants I had I actually wrote down Adam Peterman second already back already back in.
01:04:24.159 --> 01:04:43.840
I had Christian Menoggio third I was like okay Christian Menogio I don't know if he's gonna take a golden ticket so we're say it say it rolls down then now I'm now I'm having to play out I'm not having to do like a Madden uh season simulator and I'm like having to like hit sim like 45 times to get this race so now we've got Dan Jones in fourth.
01:04:44.000 --> 01:04:47.760
He takes a golden ticket because he wants to get back into Western states.
01:04:48.239 --> 01:04:55.599
Got two tickets left Eli Hemming finishes next but he doesn't take the golden ticket because you said he's not golden ticket hunting.
01:04:55.679 --> 01:04:57.599
So now we're rolled down to seventh place.
01:04:57.760 --> 01:05:15.679
One wait one two three four five we're rolled down to sixth place we got Benjamin Rubio let's give him a golden ticket and now we're to seventh and I'm pretty sure the rules on Western State sites is that the super golden ticket race will roll down to seventh and no more.
01:05:16.239 --> 01:05:32.880
Andre Vitech does he take a golden ticket or do we only take two out of this and now my my hot take lukewarm take I don't know my take of this episode is that there's going to be one golden ticket that doesn't get taken.
01:05:33.280 --> 01:05:45.519
We're very similar because I I see a similar situation where not all is used but I think it's even worse now I think we're going to see one golden ticket taken on the men's side and one golden ticket taken on the women's side.
01:05:45.679 --> 01:05:48.239
And there's going to be an institutional golden ticket crisis.
01:05:48.639 --> 01:05:54.960
There's just going to be like one of these dumpsters is just going to be clogged up with styrofoam golden tickets.
01:05:55.360 --> 01:05:57.519
I do believe Hans is punching his ticket back.
01:05:57.679 --> 01:06:07.519
I believe he gets it here and I think I have written down that Hans is the first one out when like the ticket would roll down to Hans if that if it were uh legal, but it's not allowed.
01:06:07.920 --> 01:06:16.960
I I as a fan of the sport, I relish the idea of Hans getting nine months to prepare for Western states.
01:06:17.199 --> 01:06:20.239
Nine really good months to run it back correctly.
01:06:20.320 --> 01:06:25.519
And then on the on the women's side, I my dark horse Danny gets it.
01:06:25.760 --> 01:06:28.400
I don't know where she gets it between one to seven, but she gets it.
01:06:28.639 --> 01:06:28.960
Okay.
01:06:30.480 --> 01:06:34.000
Before we go, we just have to quickly acknowledge the breaking news.
01:06:34.320 --> 01:06:41.599
Shortly after our UTMB preview went live, we learned that Jim Walmsley is no longer on the elite entrance list for UTMB.
01:06:41.679 --> 01:06:46.000
We don't know if it's injury related, if he's moving to CCC or OCC, but he's no longer on it.
01:06:46.159 --> 01:06:52.880
And then Killian Jornette uh publicly confirmed on Instagram he's opting out in favor of knee surgery.
01:06:52.960 --> 01:06:53.280
Yeah.
01:06:53.440 --> 01:06:55.679
Both of these guys have been injured all year.
01:06:55.760 --> 01:06:58.880
Jim hasn't started a race since World's last September.
01:06:59.039 --> 01:07:03.280
Killian has been on start lines, but it's it hasn't been typical Killian.
01:07:03.760 --> 01:07:05.440
I mean, just quickly your your thoughts here.
01:07:05.679 --> 01:07:15.119
Yeah, I think it it even though we knew they were both going into this race banged up, we both knew that if they start the race, they're starting at the front of the pack.
01:07:15.199 --> 01:07:21.679
They're not gonna like play it conservative in hopes of healthily making it all the way around the mountains.
01:07:21.840 --> 01:07:34.559
So at least for the parts that they would have been running before maybe dropping, they would have I would have turned to them to be two of the people to be kind of controlling the race.
01:07:36.079 --> 01:07:37.280
They are both out.
01:07:37.679 --> 01:07:39.519
Who takes it over?
01:07:39.840 --> 01:07:42.400
Who is that who's that dude?
01:07:43.840 --> 01:07:44.880
I feel like Ben.
01:07:45.360 --> 01:07:49.760
I think Ben is he feels like it seems like he's ready to be that dude.
01:07:50.639 --> 01:07:55.360
Um and the other person who I feel like is now chopping at the bit to be that dude is Zach Miller.
01:07:55.599 --> 01:08:00.159
Yeah, I mean we talked in the previous episode that it was sort of Ben's race to lose.
01:08:00.239 --> 01:08:02.480
I think it's even like you said, it's even more so now.
01:08:02.719 --> 01:08:05.039
And then stock rising for Zach and Caleb, I think.
01:08:05.199 --> 01:08:05.360
Yeah.
01:08:05.599 --> 01:08:14.800
But I think the chances of a I don't know if it's nearly wire to wire, but more wire to wire than previously goes up for one of these runners.
01:08:15.440 --> 01:08:16.000
That's it.
01:08:16.079 --> 01:08:17.439
That's our preview of CCC.
01:08:17.520 --> 01:08:18.159
Hope you enjoyed.
01:08:18.239 --> 01:08:20.079
Let us know in the comments of this episode what you thought.
01:08:20.159 --> 01:08:23.359
Would you agree with our picks, our predictions, favorites, contenders, etc.
01:08:23.600 --> 01:08:24.399
Brett, thanks so much.
01:08:24.560 --> 01:08:34.159
All right, we are back with more coverage of the 2026 UTMB World Series Finals, and I have the pleasure of being joined by Tony McCann, who's getting ready for CCC.
01:08:34.319 --> 01:08:36.000
Tony, how are you doing this afternoon?
01:08:36.399 --> 01:08:37.600
I'm doing really good.
01:08:37.760 --> 01:08:39.039
It's great to be back in Sham.
01:08:39.279 --> 01:08:40.720
It's great to see everyone here.
01:08:40.800 --> 01:08:43.359
And uh yeah, the valley's filling up with all the runners.
01:08:43.520 --> 01:08:44.800
It's very exciting.
01:08:45.199 --> 01:08:49.680
At this stage in your career, what are you the most curious about?
01:08:50.880 --> 01:08:53.520
Dang, jumping straight into the hard questions here.
01:08:53.680 --> 01:08:55.199
No beating around the bush.
01:08:55.279 --> 01:08:57.119
Um, what am I most curious about?
01:08:57.279 --> 01:09:00.239
I think every race has its own challenges.
01:09:00.399 --> 01:09:04.960
Um, there's no, you know, I've done 100K now and I know how to do the distance.
01:09:05.119 --> 01:09:11.199
Um, so it's always about figuring out how to get your the best out of yourself on a specific course.
01:09:11.439 --> 01:09:14.239
Um and I think you never do it 100%.
01:09:14.479 --> 01:09:15.920
So it's always very exciting to come back.
01:09:16.000 --> 01:09:18.319
Like I've done CCC now twice before.
01:09:18.399 --> 01:09:22.319
Um, and I don't feel like I've ever fully nailed it.
01:09:22.479 --> 01:09:28.159
So I guess the curiosity is to try and see where I can improve and how I can do better.
01:09:28.399 --> 01:09:36.479
Um also it's always very exciting to step up to a course where there's like 20 deep on women who could absolutely crush the race.
01:09:36.640 --> 01:09:43.119
So just curious about what you can do when there's that deeper field and see what you can do.
01:09:43.439 --> 01:09:45.199
Yeah, what you can get out of your body.
01:09:45.600 --> 01:09:49.680
That's interesting that a win here doesn't count as nailing it because you won this race.
01:09:50.479 --> 01:09:57.199
Yeah, I think it was my first 100k ever, and I think I got away with a lot of mistakes.
01:09:57.439 --> 01:10:18.720
Um, I don't want to say I was lucky because I did obviously work really hard and I put a lot of um effort into the race, but I I definitely looking back know that there were areas that I can improve on, um, which is really exciting because I know I can run the course faster, um, but it also does put a little layer of pressure onto coming back because you want to always do better.
01:10:18.800 --> 01:10:22.960
Um and I think I ran a really good race, even though I feel like I could do more here.
01:10:23.520 --> 01:10:31.279
I was listening to a podcast that you did at the end of last year, and I think you were kind of lamenting some aspects of your 2025 season.
01:10:31.359 --> 01:10:35.840
Like you felt like you couldn't get into a rhythm, you felt like you were kind of on a treadmill in terms of like race selection.
01:10:35.920 --> 01:10:38.960
I think Lavareto was the one exception you were kind of excited about Lavareto.
01:10:39.359 --> 01:10:46.880
So if you throw CCC into that mix of like, this just feels like I'm going at it again, um, what's the reason this year?
01:10:47.359 --> 01:10:48.159
Or was that true?
01:10:48.319 --> 01:10:49.920
Do you still feel that that was true about last year?
01:10:50.239 --> 01:10:51.279
I definitely feel that was true.
01:10:51.439 --> 01:10:53.840
I think I was ticking boxes last year.
01:10:54.079 --> 01:10:58.560
Um, in hindsight, it's maybe not that the races weren't exciting that I wasn't doing.
01:10:58.640 --> 01:11:06.239
It was maybe more that I felt like I was doing them because I felt like I needed to do them, not because I was wanting to do them.
01:11:06.479 --> 01:11:09.359
This year, you know, my season hasn't been crazy.
01:11:09.520 --> 01:11:13.920
I haven't done anything wild in terms of travel or exciting races or anything crazy.
01:11:14.079 --> 01:11:17.039
Um, you know, I've stayed pretty local so far this season.
01:11:17.279 --> 01:11:20.880
And I think the difference is my mindset towards those races.
01:11:21.119 --> 01:11:28.079
I'm not feeling like I'm doing it for someone else to take a box and doing it because I'm actually truly excited about the races again.
01:11:28.239 --> 01:11:30.159
And I think that's the major difference.
01:11:30.800 --> 01:11:32.960
Uh just the maxi race this year so far?
01:11:33.279 --> 01:11:34.159
The maxi race.
01:11:34.239 --> 01:11:37.840
And then I did a local race uh out on the Beaufortin called La Frise en Roche.
01:11:38.159 --> 01:11:40.640
Uh so now I consider myself a local in a rash.
01:11:40.880 --> 01:11:41.520
Wait to talk about it.
01:11:41.520 --> 01:11:42.399
I've never heard of that race.
01:11:42.640 --> 01:11:46.319
Uh it's a local race in the Beaufortin, um, very local.
01:11:46.479 --> 01:11:50.640
Uh it's a race that actually Francois De Hain and Jim Mormsley have both won.
01:11:50.880 --> 01:11:58.000
And uh both of them have, since after doing that race that year gone on to win whatever respective race they did at UTMB.
01:11:58.079 --> 01:11:59.920
So I consider it a good luck charm.
01:12:00.399 --> 01:12:04.399
Um did that this year, won the 4042-ish K.
01:12:04.640 --> 01:12:09.439
Um, so hopefully the good luck of Francois and Jim carries on to me.
01:12:10.880 --> 01:12:13.279
Couple more questions on 2025.
01:12:13.520 --> 01:12:16.399
Again, this was back to I I'm blanking the name of the podcast.
01:12:16.479 --> 01:12:17.359
It was great.
01:12:17.600 --> 01:12:29.199
Um, you know, you you won CCC in 2024, and just hearing you talk earlier, like it wasn't perfect, you you got it done, it wasn't perfect, and there was kind of maybe things that you just don't want to improve there.
01:12:29.439 --> 01:12:41.520
But you know, I it sounded like it was a new thing, it was a new phenomenon for you to have to be in a position where like the spotlight's on you, you have to defend a title, there's heavy expectations.
01:12:43.119 --> 01:12:44.800
Have you found the answer for that?
01:12:44.960 --> 01:12:53.039
Like if if you were if you were to take like a new athlete in the sport that's that's just won a big race, like what would you tell them the answer is for how to process that?
01:12:54.000 --> 01:12:56.319
I'd say I'm still figuring it out for sure.
01:12:56.479 --> 01:12:58.159
I don't think I have all the answers to that.
01:12:58.399 --> 01:13:12.640
I think um acknowledging that it's there and that that pressure exists is a big step because last year I feel like I approached the race with a bit of an uh I don't know, maybe still the underdog mentality.
01:13:12.720 --> 01:13:18.640
And then I was thrown into this media storm of oh, she's gonna, you know, the defending title, the favorite to win.
01:13:18.800 --> 01:13:21.199
And I hadn't really expected it.
01:13:21.439 --> 01:13:27.920
And when I saw that all going on, I think it it added a layer of pressure that I didn't really expect or anticipate.
01:13:28.000 --> 01:13:30.159
So I I it it was really draining.
01:13:30.239 --> 01:13:33.680
I feel like I just went into the race completely empty already.
01:13:33.840 --> 01:13:54.960
Um so I think maybe my advice would be to try and limit the amount of noise that you have going into a race, really um close that circle in of the people that you want to surround yourself with and make sure that those are really positive and good energies, and then try and limit as much social media noise around you.
01:13:55.119 --> 01:14:04.319
Um, especially if it is your first time, I think you get better at it and dealing with that as you get more experienced with racing at a high level and not going in as an underdog.
01:14:04.479 --> 01:14:07.600
But uh yeah, it's it's not an easy thing to manage for sure.
01:14:07.680 --> 01:14:09.600
I definitely don't think I've nailed it.
01:14:10.239 --> 01:14:14.079
Like practically speaking, on the ground, like any because we're what, eight, nine days out?
01:14:14.239 --> 01:14:15.760
Is it like doing the interviews earlier?
01:14:15.920 --> 01:14:18.479
Is it like closing off like five days before?
01:14:18.560 --> 01:14:20.159
Like what's the what's worked for you?
01:14:20.399 --> 01:14:22.880
Yeah, doing the interviews earlier for sure is a big one.
01:14:22.960 --> 01:14:27.920
I think if this had been next week, uh probably wouldn't have had the same answer from me.
01:14:28.560 --> 01:14:41.279
Um but again, it's just all about protecting energy and making sure that you give energy to the things that you're excited about and and you know will feed back to you versus things that maybe don't um you know give you energy back.
01:14:41.439 --> 01:14:49.359
Uh but that also practically means making sure that I'm surrounded by only my friends in Race Week, trying to limit as much scrolling on social media as possible.
01:14:49.520 --> 01:14:51.760
Um yeah, just limiting noise.
01:14:52.079 --> 01:15:00.239
And then I I I'm I'm asking these questions only because I I genuinely find like the answers fascinating, I think instructive to like other people in your position.
01:15:00.319 --> 01:15:02.479
The 2024 when you called it joyless.
01:15:04.159 --> 01:15:06.720
Wow, I was really harsh on that race.
01:15:07.680 --> 01:15:26.079
Um I think in comparison to what I would call my breakout race at OCC the year before where I won, that race was, I think because it was so not unexpected, but just so unbelievable that I had finally achieved this goal that I had set out to achieve.
01:15:26.319 --> 01:15:36.239
Whereas CCC, I think because I had to dig so deep in that race and I'd gone to a place that I'd like emotionally and physically never had to go to before.
01:15:36.399 --> 01:15:41.119
Um, bearing in mind my longest run in preparation for that race was like 36Ks.
01:15:41.840 --> 01:15:43.920
Um so like I didn't do big body.
01:15:44.079 --> 01:15:46.720
My my my longest run time-wise was five hours.
01:15:46.800 --> 01:15:50.319
So I was already well past that coming into Champagne Lac.
01:15:50.560 --> 01:15:53.359
Like I had no idea what I was doing when I came into that race.
01:15:53.520 --> 01:16:00.399
And I think emotionally I just had to give so much of myself that when I finished, I didn't have anything left to celebrate with.
01:16:00.720 --> 01:16:08.479
Um and then because it's just you you give so much of yourself in the race afterwards, I just found myself so empty.
01:16:08.720 --> 01:16:11.600
Um, and it took me a really long time to recover from that.
01:16:11.760 --> 01:16:13.680
I would say months.
01:16:14.960 --> 01:16:19.840
At least on paper, I've seen like two major jumps in your career, one between 21 and 22.
01:16:20.000 --> 01:16:22.720
And then I would say again between 22 and 23.
01:16:23.279 --> 01:16:30.239
And the 22 to 23 one is interesting because it's like you go from being like a top five, top 10 type runner to like you're winning these the biggest races.
01:16:30.720 --> 01:16:40.960
Um, if you were to like pick a bucket, if it's like physical, mental, something else, like what do you think is the most important change that has to happen to make that transition to being like a winner of these races?
01:16:41.760 --> 01:16:42.800
Consistency.
01:16:43.039 --> 01:16:45.359
Honestly, that was the biggest thing that changed for me.
01:16:45.520 --> 01:16:58.319
I went from a runner who ran, you know, pretty much throughout the year, but was often taking big breaks or you know, not um not finding ways to cross-train effectively.
01:16:58.399 --> 01:17:04.399
Um it was running and it was only running, and that's kind of all I did, but I didn't run effectively.
01:17:04.560 --> 01:17:15.359
I I kind of I don't want to say I took too many rest days because that's not a thing, but um Yeah, may you know I was maybe Undertraining, under training is a thing.
01:17:15.680 --> 01:17:22.159
I think to some extent, you know, I hadn't, I think my first hundred kilometer training week ever was in 2022.
01:17:22.560 --> 01:17:24.720
So like I wasn't a big mileage person.
01:17:24.880 --> 01:17:30.560
I'm still not a huge mileage person, but like I was really not a big mileage person before like 2022.
01:17:30.800 --> 01:17:43.600
So I think one of the things was stepping up a little bit in mileage in my training, not taking necessarily less training days, but um yeah, just doing a little bit more, not a crazy amount more, but a little bit more.
01:17:43.840 --> 01:17:47.439
And then I think the biggest thing also was learning to cross-train.
01:17:47.600 --> 01:17:52.159
Um, I am unfortunately fairly injury prone, I think.
01:17:52.239 --> 01:17:54.880
Um, and when that would happen, I just didn't have anything to do.
01:17:54.960 --> 01:17:57.279
I didn't know I didn't cycle, I hate swimming.
01:17:57.439 --> 01:18:00.960
So like I wouldn't fill the injury space with anything.
01:18:01.199 --> 01:18:03.439
So now I do cross-train a lot more.
01:18:03.520 --> 01:18:07.520
I do my gym work, I cycle quite a lot, still don't swim, still hate swimming.
01:18:07.600 --> 01:18:13.920
Um, but there's definitely other ways that I've found to be effective in training when I've to fill those gaps and to stay consistent.
01:18:14.159 --> 01:18:31.359
But for sure, the biggest thing that changed was consistency as well as actually joining the Adidas team, um, getting to spend so much time with the the team and my teammates and having the opportunity to come to eight-week training camps in Chamonix like before that that was unheard of in my life.
01:18:31.439 --> 01:18:38.880
Um, so getting to be surrounded by all of these incredible athletes was also incredibly inspiring, but I learned a lot about how to train effectively from them.
01:18:39.279 --> 01:18:40.880
Are you still coached by Tom Evans?
01:18:41.199 --> 01:18:42.079
Still am, yes.
01:18:42.319 --> 01:18:42.560
Yeah.
01:18:42.880 --> 01:18:46.159
We've never really talked about Tom as a coach on this podcast.
01:18:46.640 --> 01:18:49.680
Uh what makes him a great coach?
01:18:50.239 --> 01:18:56.000
For me, he is what I need because I'm not I'm not a needy athlete.
01:18:56.159 --> 01:19:02.960
Like I self-coached for most of the years until actually two years ago when I started with Tom, I was self-coached.
01:19:03.199 --> 01:19:06.560
Um, so I I like to be quite independent to my training.
01:19:06.640 --> 01:19:09.279
I like to have flexibility in how I structure my weeks.
01:19:09.439 --> 01:19:15.199
And Tom is great because he's okay with me mixing things up when I need to, and he's quite hands-off with me.
01:19:15.359 --> 01:19:20.560
I know he's not the same way with all of his athletes, which I think is what makes a good athlete, uh a good coach.
01:19:20.720 --> 01:19:23.520
They know how to manage different personalities.
01:19:23.760 --> 01:19:26.640
Um, but for me, he he gives me my training.
01:19:26.720 --> 01:19:30.079
I get on with it, and if I have a question, I can ask him and he'll respond.
01:19:30.239 --> 01:19:36.560
But it's not uh he's not nagging me about hitting specific goals in a week or, you know, that's on me.
01:19:36.640 --> 01:19:39.279
And I like that autonomy in my training.
01:19:39.920 --> 01:19:43.199
Independent of any result, what do you want to do better on this course this year?
01:19:43.439 --> 01:19:45.520
Where are the room where's the room for improvement?
01:19:46.479 --> 01:19:48.159
I want to pace myself better.
01:19:48.399 --> 01:19:53.680
I think the race is really it's really easy to get too caught up too early.
01:19:53.920 --> 01:19:57.840
And I I know a lot of people say, you know, the race only starts in Champagne Lac.
01:19:58.000 --> 01:19:58.399
I disagree.
01:19:58.479 --> 01:19:59.760
The race starts when the race starts.
01:19:59.840 --> 01:20:02.960
Like there's no such thing as the race only starting 50ks in.
01:20:03.119 --> 01:20:06.399
You have to keep that front group within sights.
01:20:06.560 --> 01:20:14.479
But I think last year I got too caught up in running other athletes' races and it ruined my race.
01:20:14.720 --> 01:20:22.159
I truly, I completely think that was part of my big issue last year is I I was trying to run someone else's race instead of my own.
01:20:22.720 --> 01:20:32.479
Um, so yeah, the the biggest thing for me is this year not losing touch with the front group, but not letting them not being afraid to let them go if I need to run my pace.
01:20:32.560 --> 01:20:38.640
Um, because I think that the second half of the race is where I lost a lot of time in my first year.
01:20:38.800 --> 01:20:41.439
And I'd really like to run that second half better.
01:20:43.439 --> 01:20:44.800
It's hard not to look at two forward.
01:20:45.039 --> 01:20:52.640
Would you talk about the decision you'd have to make if you have the opportunity to take a golden ticket to Western states?
01:20:54.880 --> 01:20:58.560
Um I would take it, I think.
01:21:00.800 --> 01:21:03.840
Um something different.
01:21:04.560 --> 01:21:06.960
Some like a completely different style of training.
01:21:07.039 --> 01:21:11.439
You know, I live in the Alps, so a lot of my training is running up a mountain and then running down a mountain.
01:21:11.600 --> 01:21:16.479
So the idea of a different type of training, something more flat, something faster is quite appealing.
01:21:16.960 --> 01:21:20.000
Um I also just think it's an exciting race.
01:21:20.079 --> 01:21:24.079
There's so much so much talent that congregates in that that space.
01:21:24.239 --> 01:21:28.399
Um, and putting yourself up against other incredible woman is always an exciting thing to do.
01:21:28.479 --> 01:21:31.039
You know, I've done CCC now a few years.
01:21:31.199 --> 01:21:35.199
I'd like to give that a bit of a break um before potentially maybe one day.
01:21:35.279 --> 01:21:40.159
I'm not saying this is gonna happen next year or the year after, but maybe one day stepping up to UTMB.
01:21:40.479 --> 01:21:52.159
Um and I think Western States is quite a nice first hundred miler, um, just because it's quite fast and not too much longer than a hundred K race.
01:21:52.720 --> 01:21:57.279
Um but but yeah, if I don't get the ticket, there's still lots of other exciting races next year.
01:21:57.359 --> 01:22:09.520
I probably I might give UTMB week a skip um in favor of world champs because that's in South Africa next year and I would have to if I obviously make the team touch wood.
01:22:09.680 --> 01:22:16.399
Um if I make the South African team, I'd obviously love to represent my country on home turf on the mountain that I began trail running.
01:22:16.720 --> 01:22:20.720
Is that and uh this could like is it obviously exciting that it's in South Africa next year?
01:22:20.880 --> 01:22:24.880
Like are you is that like a no-brainer I'm gonna go be a participant in that?
01:22:25.199 --> 01:22:26.640
If I get into the team, 100%.
01:22:27.119 --> 01:22:31.760
That's like that will be my season's main goal and everything else will be built around it.
01:22:32.319 --> 01:22:36.960
Is there gonna be unfortunate conflicts between that event and Cape Ultra Trail Cape Town?
01:22:37.039 --> 01:22:38.319
Because they're like a month apart, right?
01:22:38.560 --> 01:22:39.439
They're pretty close together.
01:22:39.600 --> 01:22:43.039
Ultra trail Cape Town has such an incredible s support from the community.
01:22:43.119 --> 01:22:48.479
You know, maybe we don't get as many elites there, but I don't think it's gonna take away from the event at all.
01:22:48.560 --> 01:22:50.479
I think it'll be as amazing as ever.
01:22:50.720 --> 01:22:58.399
If not more amazing, because everyone will just be so stoked from having all of these incredible athletes from all over the world having shown up on their doorstep.
01:22:58.720 --> 01:23:04.880
Before we go, uh I I'm remembering now, I did want to ask you on like the sports psychology side of things.
01:23:04.960 --> 01:23:06.239
Are you working with a coach at this point?
01:23:06.560 --> 01:23:07.680
Not currently, no.
01:23:07.840 --> 01:23:09.039
I was at the beginning of the year.
01:23:09.359 --> 01:23:09.680
Okay.
01:23:10.000 --> 01:23:14.399
Do you are you do you buy or sell that as like a benefit to what you're doing?
01:23:14.720 --> 01:23:15.760
Yes, 100%.
01:23:16.399 --> 01:23:20.399
I definitely think maybe not for the whole year, at least for me.
01:23:20.560 --> 01:23:27.840
Um I like to kind of step back and try and implement what I've learned and then I'll go back to someone.
01:23:28.000 --> 01:23:33.760
Um but for sure I I had a lot of work to do at the beginning of the year, and I'm glad I took the time to do it.
01:23:33.840 --> 01:23:41.680
There was a lot of um upstream work that needed to be done that or needed to be addressed um that I hadn't ever really done.
01:23:41.920 --> 01:23:48.800
So it was good to do that at the beginning of the year where they had the time to actually focus on it and give it energy because it's important.
01:23:49.119 --> 01:23:51.039
Uh what did you learn?
01:23:51.520 --> 01:23:54.479
That I'm um a I'm a perfectionist.
01:23:54.560 --> 01:23:59.119
I think I I mean I always knew that, but I never really realized how much it affected me.
01:23:59.359 --> 01:24:08.079
Um it kind of it ruins your ability to have fun and be playful and to make mistakes and to fail and try again.
01:24:08.239 --> 01:24:16.960
Um so really trying to shift that mindset from perfectionism to um the word that my coach used was excellence.
01:24:17.039 --> 01:24:24.079
Um and excellence doesn't mean that you're not striving to be the best, your best, not the best, your best.
01:24:24.239 --> 01:24:29.760
Um, but it means that it allows you to to make mistakes and to learn in the process.
01:24:30.479 --> 01:24:36.960
What is an example of an exercise that you do with your coach or that you did with your coach to uh to transition that mindset?
01:24:39.279 --> 01:24:44.399
Uh we just did a lot of talking, honestly, and he would be like, ah, there it is.
01:24:44.640 --> 01:24:45.359
That was it.
01:24:45.520 --> 01:24:47.279
That was perfection talking.
01:24:47.439 --> 01:24:49.680
Um, like re-rephrase that.
01:24:49.760 --> 01:24:50.800
How would you rephrase that?
01:24:50.960 --> 01:24:52.239
So it'd be like those kinds of things.
01:24:52.479 --> 01:24:53.760
We just did a lot of talking, honestly.
01:24:53.840 --> 01:25:02.800
There were no specific exercises, but it was more just like speaking through and then him catching me and calling me out when I made the mistakes.
01:25:03.199 --> 01:25:03.520
Very cool.
01:25:03.600 --> 01:25:34.479
Yeah, I've and I've one of the reasons I ask is I've just seen so many variations of like the sports psychologist in practice, like obviously that, and then I mean, even earlier this summer, like hearing about people at Western States who like they would have that coach out on course in training runs, and like in order to build fatigue resistance, like they would give them like some sort of like mental exercise to play at aid stations to like force their brain to work even harder during that run so that like they had that fatigue resistance built in for like mile 80 on the day.
01:25:34.800 --> 01:25:36.239
That's a very good tool.
01:25:36.319 --> 01:25:37.600
I'm gonna have to add that one to my own.
01:25:37.760 --> 01:25:40.159
I wasn't sure what like the extent of like what yeah, like what you guys were doing.
01:25:40.560 --> 01:25:41.039
Yeah, yeah.
01:25:41.199 --> 01:25:43.279
I mean we didn't work together for a ton of time.
01:25:43.359 --> 01:25:46.399
I think uh it was about eight weeks of work together.
01:25:46.560 --> 01:25:50.159
Um, but I definitely had a lot of homework to do.
01:25:50.239 --> 01:25:56.880
Um, and I think I'm still doing, and once I'm finished with that, then we'll start working together again for sure.
01:25:57.760 --> 01:26:01.920
Last question for you is there a mantra for Rista?
01:26:06.159 --> 01:26:06.800
Hmm.
01:26:10.159 --> 01:26:12.640
The one that I came up for Maxi Race.
01:26:12.880 --> 01:26:15.279
So I have this thing that I do when I can't sleep.
01:26:15.359 --> 01:26:23.439
Um, I think of a four-letter word, and then for every letter in that word, I have to think of as many words as I can.
01:26:23.600 --> 01:26:29.119
So the word that I thought of before Maxi Race, the night before Maxi Race was cope.
01:26:29.680 --> 01:26:44.479
And for each of those words, the only things that I could think about were courage, optimism, um uh what was my P perseverance and excitement.
01:26:44.880 --> 01:26:48.720
And those were the words that I just kept repeating to myself through the race.
01:26:48.960 --> 01:26:54.720
And whenever things got cut hard, it was like, okay, courage, like courage, just have courage and persevere, you got this.
01:26:54.800 --> 01:26:58.560
So I think for whatever reason that has stuck with me in a big way.
01:26:58.720 --> 01:27:01.439
Um so I think cope is my my mantra.
01:27:01.520 --> 01:27:05.760
And whenever I get in a hard place, I run through those words and I'm like, okay, I can do this.
01:27:06.000 --> 01:27:09.600
Courage, optimism, perseverance, excellence, excitement.
01:27:09.840 --> 01:27:14.239
I mean, there's multiple variations of that, but that was what stuck with me.
01:27:14.800 --> 01:27:16.640
Tony, we we really appreciate your time.
01:27:16.720 --> 01:27:22.399
We can't thank you enough, and very much looking forward to uh to watching you race next Saturday.
01:27:22.560 --> 01:27:24.560
And I just hope you have a great time out there.
01:27:24.800 --> 01:27:25.039
Thank you.
01:27:25.119 --> 01:27:25.680
Thank you so much.
01:27:25.760 --> 01:27:26.479
Thanks for having me.
