WEBVTT
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Welcome everybody to the Sandwich Bread Podcast.
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I'm your host, Tom Kaminsky.
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Conversations about life and money, specifically tailored to the sandwich generation.
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So I'm very excited for today's guest, Annie Raymeyer.
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Welcome, Annie.
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Thank you, Tom.
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I'm very excited to be here.
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Yeah, we're excited to have you.
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And today we'll be talking about estate planning.
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Woo! If you're a client of Twin Robins, you have heard me ask you about your estate plan.
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I'll let Annie lean in on this.
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Every single person needs one.
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Confirm or deny.
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Absolutely confirm.
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Most people put it off.
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The most important thing is to take steps toward getting it done.
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But with this episode today, we're going to talk about mistakes that you often encounter when you're looking at estate plans.
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If a client is knowledgeable going into the process, that can help everything go much more smoothly and just make it more enjoyable if possible.
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Okay.
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We need to learn a little bit more about Annie.
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First of all, you go to SLU, St.
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Louis University for undergrad.
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Right.
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Then KU for law school.
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Then out of law school, you actually get into teaching.
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Right.
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Well, I started teaching during undergrad.
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I taught test prep, LSAT, GRE, and GMET, and helped people apply to grad school, which was really fun.
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And I enjoyed that.
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Um after graduating law school, I worked at a big firm in investment services in Chicago.
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And it was all the horror stories you hear about big firms, big cities.
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Um so I wanted to regroup um and got back into teaching.
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I did that for a total of 13 years.
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I thoroughly enjoy educating people, and so I bring that to every client interaction.
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I stopped teaching before the pandemic, stayed home for a couple years.
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When I approached re-entering legal practice, I landed on estate planning.
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It just so happens that a law school friend, Jamie, my partner, was looking for the right person to join her.
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And so the stars aligned.
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And that was in 2023 that I started working with Jamie.
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So she is a wealth of knowledge, experience, and brings all of that to the table.
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And I lean much more both at home and at work to in the empathy direction.
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I'm like, yeah, we're all human.
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In our profession as well, being empathetic and education-oriented is super important.
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A lot of people they just want reliable answers efficiently from a trusted source.
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And I think a marrying of education and empathy is why they hire us.
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And you are also a collegiate runner.
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Do you still run?
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I do.
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And actually uh our oldest really enjoys running.
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That's a cool part of your history to bring the table.
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Well, let's let's dive into it.
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Um, so today's topics, we're gonna have we're have five common estate planning mistakes that you run into in your practice.
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So the first one on our list here is hiring an attorney and then not following their advice, meaning funding the trust or which estate planning approach is best.
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So with every trust estate plan that we create, we have a detailed to-do list.
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What client provides us with all of their assets?
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And then their to-do list is to get this asset to go into your trust in an ideal way to avoid overpaying taxes and maximize your estate size.
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Um our clients with less on their daily plate, like our retired clients, are all about those to-do lists and like getting it done.
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But then if for our clients in their 30s and 40s, we're in that crunch time period.
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You know, we have younger kids at home, we're busy with our own work.
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And so understandably, that to-do list can fall by the wayside.
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Even so much of it is online now.
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So doing those beneficiary designations, all of those things.
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So just keeping in mind that it doesn't function unless you do your part, basically.
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Yeah.
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Are there little tactics or techniques you knew you use to push through the inertia in the process?
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We understand also that our, especially our younger clients, are very busy.
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So we try to plan those meetings out from the get-go.
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Once they decide that they want to move forward, we say, okay, this this is the number of meetings that are possible.
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This is what will happen at those meetings, no more than an hour each.
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Um, I really try to just have people get their calendars out and schedule.
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And what we say is that we'll put your signing date on all of your documents.
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So let's go ahead and schedule it.
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Nice.
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And then we can change it.
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But also it's on the calendar.
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That's just and it also signals to them this process will end.
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It's on this calendar.
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I know, right?
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You don't have to keep meeting with me.
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So that's number one.
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Number two, we're using an online estate planning tool.
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Yeah.
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So, yeah, what issues, what issues do you see with this?
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I mean, if you want to avoid probate, don't do that, please.
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It's not an error in the software, it's more that the software assumes that you know what you're doing.
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And the knowledge is so specialized that even if you have a set idea in mind of what you want to put in place, if you don't have have a strong background in estate planning law, you will not know how to fill it out.
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We do estate planning and probate, and we're trying to put the probate out of business.
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Our probate side frequently is fueled by these do-it-yourself estate plans.
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So it's more that people are trying and making a good faith effort, but don't know.
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Real quick on the probate side, could you offer just a quick definition to the audience of what's probate versus non-probate with estate planning?
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So probate is what happens after someone passes away when they have an asset or their entire estate that is not directed to a living person.
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So sometimes people just do beneficiary designations or like transfer on death, payable on death to somebody for all of their assets, and that would avoid probate.
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Got it.
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But also you can avoid probate if you send everything to a trust, and your trust is detailed on how you want your estate divided up.
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Impression is that probate is more costly usually to the estate, and then it can, depending on the state, not estate, the state the person who passed resides in, it may take a prolonged period of time to sort that out.
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And that varies by state.
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Exactly.
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So like the minimum amount of time that an estate would be in probate minimum is about six months to just sort it out.
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Similarly, the minimum cost to be expected with probate is like six to eight thousand dollars.
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Okay.
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Is that for Kansas?
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Yeah.
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Yep.
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Okay.
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For Kansas.
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Okay.
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Helpful to know.
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So saves costs, saves time.
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And my impression is that with if you've got your beneficiary designations in place properly, it could take a matter of weeks.
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You get a death certificate and present it to the custodian or whoever or the bank.
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Right.
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And they'll process their updates and transfer it over.
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Exactly.
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Less time and over generally less cost.
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So yeah, that's what as a planner, I'm always looking.
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Do you have a plan in place?
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Is there a trust?
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Do we have the trust properly funded?
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And if we think there's any question, we bring in the estate planning attorney and and get guidance on how to have everything titled properly and make sure this the estate is settled as you wish.
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Right.
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And that's our ideal is to work with someone's financial planner to make everything function the best possible way.
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Cool.
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Great.
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Yeah.
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So tying it back to the comments, basically, you know, when you're using online estate planning tools, the individual filling out the paperwork online digitally may not understand precisely what they're doing and may not be armed with the right information to follow through and actually set up your estate the proper way to match it.
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Exactly.
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Yep.
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Okay.
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And full disclosure, occasionally, if I think a client won't get an estate plan, I will add a digital tool to the list.
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I kind of say, here's all the places you should look.
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Right.
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Educate, research yourself.
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And I'm like, if if I don't think they will, well, this is better than zero.
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It's just not much.
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I'll take it.
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Um, very good.
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All right.
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Next on the list, common estate planning mistakes you may encounter is one is assuming it's one size fit fits all, meaning doing setting up your estate the same way your neighbor did or your parents did, just because they said that's the right way to do it.
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Right.
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Yeah.
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We see this play out both ways.
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Sometimes we'll have people call in and they're like, I want a trust.
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I need a trust, you know, and they're an a widow with one or two adult responsible children.
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They have one home.
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Everything is very tied down and simple in their estate.
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And we're like, we can create a trust for you, but you also are fine with a will only.
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And we're some estate planning attorneys are not as open to doing a will-only estate plan.
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We just don't want someone to feel like they have to go overboard if that's not how their estate is, and want to make sure to advise them on their options if they want to go that way.
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Um, conversely, though, we see people come in and they're opposed to a trust or, you know, say, um, oh, I only need a will.
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Things are very simple.
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And we're like, well, your wishes are simple.
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The way this will happen is not simple, you know.
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Um, and what I mean by that is like if an older couple, adult children, but they have four kids, um in that instance, their wishes are clear, their wishes are simple.
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It's like 25%, 25%, 25%, 25%.
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But doing that actually is not going to be simple, especially with real estate.
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You should really look into a trust in that situation.
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Yeah.
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When we're talking to clients and they feel like it's one size fits all, the way that we like to break it down is to think about their assets.
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So, like the complexity of their estate, whether they are a small business owner, whether they have multiple pieces of real estate, whether they have collections that they want to give to particular people.
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And we break it down into their specific wishes.
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Who do you want to distribute to and what are the ages of those people?
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So when you have minors, the only way that you can give to them without just giving outright is through a trust.
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So that's like I we feel like it would be negligent on our part to say, yes, let's give your children even like$100,000 when they turn 18.
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You know, we've all been 18, and you don't you don't make great choices when you're 18 with a lot of money.
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That makes sense.
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Yeah, and I'll have clients ask me, you know, well, what what what type of estate plan do I need?
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And besides the fact that I don't give legal advice, and so when on the surface it might look like a fairly simple situation, no kids, relatively simple finances.
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Yeah, I've seen enough to know, introduce the attorney and kind of get out of the way.
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Great.
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So the big piece of advice is if you're talking to your neighbor about their estate plan and they have one and you don't, that's that's really what you need to.
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That's your signal.
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Exactly.
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Not the type, but the fact that it exists.
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Right.
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Exactly.
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I know.
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Just go go talk to somebody and get one in place.
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Uh I like it.
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Next up on the list for common estate planning mistakes you encounter is assuming you don't need the ancillary documents that are involved with estate plan.
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Tell us about that.
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Okay.
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So, first of all, definition ancillary documents is the bucket for anything other than a will or a trust.
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So ancillary documents are the powers of attorney.
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So financial power of attorney, healthcare power of attorney, HIPAA waiver, and then advanced medical directive or living will.
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So a lot of times people say, okay, I need to get in touch with you because I need a will or I need a trust.
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Um, when we create an estate plan, we would be remiss if we didn't include all of your documents.
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And they'll say, Well, I don't want to pay for everything.
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Can I just get a will or a trust?
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And we're like, we hear you.
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But we can't predict what will happen in your life.
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And most frequently on our end, we see those ancillary documents playing a bigger role in whatever happens for you than actually the will or trust.
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Like the will or trust is a gift to your beneficiaries, to your people.
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But the powers of attorney and the living will, especially if you decide to get a living will, those are the ones that really, when push comes to shove, like if you become incapacitated, if you have a medical crisis or um a medical challenge, that's when those documents will come into play.
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And we just don't know when that might be.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And I I think going back to the sandwich generation sort of moniker that this show is associated with, a lot of my clients themselves don't fortunately need these ancillary documents in their daily lives as frequently.
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They're still just as important, not to diminish that.
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But it's with their parents.
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When their parents have a health event or issue, it's a mess if we don't have the documents in place.
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I've experienced that with my clients trying to scramble to get to their parents wherever they are, and then run down the legal documents that allow them to talk to the doctors directly or help, you know, um, and financial powers attorney, those types of things.
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And so it's it's super important to do and do that proactively.
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Reactively is a mess.
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Proactively is wonderful because you actually get the parent's opinion.
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It's in place.
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And we have encountered situations where once someone is beyond having mental capacity, they cannot get the documents in place.
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And so it's like that opportunity has passed.
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And again, I'm we all have seen it with loved ones as they've aged, but it can happen so quickly that even with the best intentions, all of a sudden that opportunity is gone.
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Yeah.
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And then everyone is struggling to help.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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It's it's it's really rough reactively and it's really great proactively.
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So very especially powerful for the aging parent.
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Okay, next up is letting your documents get stale.
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Yes, yes, yes.
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Um, so we always advise to our clients that they update their documents and look at them at least every five to ten years.
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But I was seeking my husband's perspective as a layperson.
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And like, what do you think?
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Because we're in that like busy, we have somewhat young children, we're both working stage.
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Um, and our lives change quite a bit during this time period.
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Where when we put our estate plan in place, we actually listed our parents as the people that we would have step in in multiple scenarios.
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Um, but as time passes on, it's like that actually is not as wise of a decision because our parents are aging.
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And my husband said, and I completely agree with him, that it really should be every two to five years during this busy time, just because those things shift.
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Um and we also say if anything major happens in your life.
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Um, so if a parent passes away, you're uh moving for sure, then you want to look at your estate plan, even if you're just moving homes in the same metro area.
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So all of it is situation dependent, but more frequent, of course, during this busy stage when you don't have time.
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And yeah, life changes fast.
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I mean, when you have start having kids and the people that you want as guardians and caring for your estate and potentially making decisions on how your kids will be raised in the horrible event that someone else would need to raise your kids, is that can change quickly and evolve.
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I see friends on there that aren't as close two years later.
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Or exactly siblings who have issues, or parents is quite common.
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And and and you're like, I don't know if they were I was okay with my parents raising my kids in their early 60s, but in their mid-70s doesn't make as much sense.
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I don't know.
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So yeah, exactly.
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And um it doesn't have to be like a complete revision.
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So we always advise just looking at your estate plan to remind yourself.
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Um, that is one of the services that we offer for people too, is an annual review to check in once a year and remind you like this is your estate plan.
00:17:58.470 --> 00:18:00.150
Are these still the people you want?
00:18:00.310 --> 00:18:09.750
And then if people have created their estate plan with us, we can update it for minimal charge and really make sure that it stays current.
00:18:09.990 --> 00:18:16.710
So once you have an estate planning professional that you trust, it's not that like threshold cost.
00:18:17.190 --> 00:18:22.790
Um, it's just making sure, like with every part of your life, just that the maintenance is happening.
00:18:23.030 --> 00:18:23.830
That's great advice.
00:18:23.990 --> 00:18:27.030
I think we try to at least force a dialogue every two years.
00:18:27.190 --> 00:18:34.550
And in the planning software we use, they have a really nice estate planning ledger where we get all the beneficiary titling listed.
00:18:34.630 --> 00:18:44.790
And so I'll encourage them to just flip through the document and just you know, if anything jumps out at them that's materially changed, let's just review it and get your get your attorney involved.
00:18:44.950 --> 00:18:46.550
So exactly good advice.
00:18:46.710 --> 00:18:47.910
All right, let's do a quick summary.
00:18:48.070 --> 00:18:51.190
So, number one, follow your attorney's advice and see it through.
00:18:51.430 --> 00:18:51.830
Please.
00:18:52.070 --> 00:18:57.670
Number two, uh, number two, be careful when using online estate planning tools.
00:18:57.830 --> 00:19:01.910
Number three, don't assume that everyone's estate plan needs are the same.
00:19:02.150 --> 00:19:06.470
Number four, trust the guidance of your professional with ancillary documents.
00:19:06.630 --> 00:19:06.870
Right.
00:19:07.030 --> 00:19:09.990
And number five, don't let your documents get stale.
00:19:10.150 --> 00:19:14.310
Review them every two to five years if you're in a busy chapter of your life.
00:19:14.550 --> 00:19:15.270
That's right.
00:19:15.509 --> 00:19:15.990
Awesome.
00:19:16.150 --> 00:19:19.509
Well, Annie, uh I I do have one last question for you.
00:19:20.150 --> 00:19:20.870
You're not done yet.
00:19:20.950 --> 00:19:23.590
Uh I have clients all over the country.
00:19:23.750 --> 00:19:31.110
What look a couple simple tips for helping somebody find, like locate an estate planning attorney that might be a fit for their needs.
00:19:31.190 --> 00:19:35.910
Are there boxes you want to see checked when somebody's out there looking for an estate planning attorney?
00:19:35.990 --> 00:19:39.030
I I hate not having solutions for my clients.
00:19:39.270 --> 00:19:40.630
It just drives me nuts.
00:19:40.870 --> 00:19:43.750
It's something I struggle with because I don't have a national network.
00:19:43.910 --> 00:19:44.870
I welcome your thoughts.
00:19:45.190 --> 00:19:45.430
Yeah.
00:19:45.670 --> 00:19:49.590
So most estate planning attorneys are part of different networks.
00:19:49.830 --> 00:19:53.590
It's a special empathetic breed to become an estate planning attorney.
00:19:53.750 --> 00:19:55.270
We're like, yeah, more is more.
00:19:55.509 --> 00:20:06.390
We're always willing to ask our network to look and make sure that we're referring out to trusted people and people that we would also want to be around.
00:20:06.550 --> 00:20:11.030
So that would be a first step if you're looking for someone in a different metro area.
00:20:11.350 --> 00:20:15.509
Don't be afraid to lean on your like estate planning attorney networks.
00:20:15.990 --> 00:20:16.470
Exactly.
00:20:16.630 --> 00:20:19.990
So like your business network, all of those things.
00:20:20.230 --> 00:20:22.710
Well, Annie, thank you for coming on the podcast.
00:20:22.950 --> 00:20:23.590
My pleasure.
00:20:23.670 --> 00:20:24.070
Thank you.
00:20:24.310 --> 00:20:25.430
Yeah, it's been a lot of fun.
00:20:25.509 --> 00:20:30.310
And and I think these are really awesome, concise, actionable ideas, which is our clients are busy.
00:20:30.390 --> 00:20:33.270
So we like concise, actionable, you know.
00:20:33.590 --> 00:20:35.110
That's what I'm after too, Tom.
00:20:35.509 --> 00:20:35.990
Awesome.
00:20:36.150 --> 00:20:39.750
Well, thanks again for coming on, and uh maybe we'll have to have you on again soon.
00:20:39.990 --> 00:20:40.710
I would love it.
00:20:40.870 --> 00:20:41.590
All right, Annie.
00:20:41.670 --> 00:20:42.070
Thanks so much.
00:00:32.469 --> 00:00:34.869
Welcome everybody to the Sandwich Bread Podcast.
00:00:35.030 --> 00:00:36.630
I'm your host, Tom Kaminsky.
00:00:36.870 --> 00:00:41.509
Conversations about life and money, specifically tailored to the sandwich generation.
00:00:41.670 --> 00:00:45.109
So I'm very excited for today's guest, Annie Raymeyer.
00:00:45.270 --> 00:00:45.909
Welcome, Annie.
00:00:46.149 --> 00:00:46.789
Thank you, Tom.
00:00:46.950 --> 00:00:48.070
I'm very excited to be here.
00:00:48.310 --> 00:00:49.670
Yeah, we're excited to have you.
00:00:49.750 --> 00:00:51.590
And today we'll be talking about estate planning.
00:00:51.750 --> 00:00:57.189
Woo! If you're a client of Twin Robins, you have heard me ask you about your estate plan.
00:00:57.350 --> 00:00:58.950
I'll let Annie lean in on this.
00:00:59.189 --> 00:01:00.789
Every single person needs one.
00:01:01.030 --> 00:01:02.469
Confirm or deny.
00:01:02.710 --> 00:01:03.670
Absolutely confirm.
00:01:03.990 --> 00:01:04.950
Most people put it off.
00:01:05.189 --> 00:01:07.590
The most important thing is to take steps toward getting it done.
00:01:07.750 --> 00:01:12.950
But with this episode today, we're going to talk about mistakes that you often encounter when you're looking at estate plans.
00:01:13.189 --> 00:01:22.710
If a client is knowledgeable going into the process, that can help everything go much more smoothly and just make it more enjoyable if possible.
00:01:23.189 --> 00:01:23.509
Okay.
00:01:23.670 --> 00:01:25.670
We need to learn a little bit more about Annie.
00:01:25.990 --> 00:01:27.430
First of all, you go to SLU, St.
00:01:27.590 --> 00:01:29.109
Louis University for undergrad.
00:01:29.349 --> 00:01:29.590
Right.
00:01:29.750 --> 00:01:31.430
Then KU for law school.
00:01:31.990 --> 00:01:34.710
Then out of law school, you actually get into teaching.
00:01:34.950 --> 00:01:35.270
Right.
00:01:35.430 --> 00:01:37.829
Well, I started teaching during undergrad.
00:01:37.909 --> 00:01:44.950
I taught test prep, LSAT, GRE, and GMET, and helped people apply to grad school, which was really fun.
00:01:45.109 --> 00:01:46.150
And I enjoyed that.
00:01:46.390 --> 00:01:52.870
Um after graduating law school, I worked at a big firm in investment services in Chicago.
00:01:53.109 --> 00:01:58.070
And it was all the horror stories you hear about big firms, big cities.
00:01:58.230 --> 00:02:03.750
Um so I wanted to regroup um and got back into teaching.
00:02:03.909 --> 00:02:07.670
I did that for a total of 13 years.
00:02:07.989 --> 00:02:14.550
I thoroughly enjoy educating people, and so I bring that to every client interaction.
00:02:14.709 --> 00:02:19.030
I stopped teaching before the pandemic, stayed home for a couple years.
00:02:19.269 --> 00:02:24.150
When I approached re-entering legal practice, I landed on estate planning.
00:02:24.310 --> 00:02:32.389
It just so happens that a law school friend, Jamie, my partner, was looking for the right person to join her.
00:02:32.550 --> 00:02:34.469
And so the stars aligned.
00:02:34.550 --> 00:02:37.909
And that was in 2023 that I started working with Jamie.
00:02:38.069 --> 00:02:44.709
So she is a wealth of knowledge, experience, and brings all of that to the table.
00:02:45.189 --> 00:02:50.310
And I lean much more both at home and at work to in the empathy direction.
00:02:50.550 --> 00:02:53.029
I'm like, yeah, we're all human.
00:02:53.589 --> 00:02:58.550
In our profession as well, being empathetic and education-oriented is super important.
00:02:59.189 --> 00:03:03.910
A lot of people they just want reliable answers efficiently from a trusted source.
00:03:03.990 --> 00:03:07.189
And I think a marrying of education and empathy is why they hire us.
00:03:07.269 --> 00:03:08.790
And you are also a collegiate runner.
00:03:08.949 --> 00:03:09.750
Do you still run?
00:03:10.069 --> 00:03:10.389
I do.
00:03:10.470 --> 00:03:14.069
And actually uh our oldest really enjoys running.
00:03:14.470 --> 00:03:17.269
That's a cool part of your history to bring the table.
00:03:17.670 --> 00:03:18.949
Well, let's let's dive into it.
00:03:19.029 --> 00:03:25.029
Um, so today's topics, we're gonna have we're have five common estate planning mistakes that you run into in your practice.
00:03:25.269 --> 00:03:33.829
So the first one on our list here is hiring an attorney and then not following their advice, meaning funding the trust or which estate planning approach is best.
00:03:34.230 --> 00:03:40.629
So with every trust estate plan that we create, we have a detailed to-do list.
00:03:40.790 --> 00:03:44.069
What client provides us with all of their assets?
00:03:44.149 --> 00:03:54.949
And then their to-do list is to get this asset to go into your trust in an ideal way to avoid overpaying taxes and maximize your estate size.
00:03:55.189 --> 00:04:04.149
Um our clients with less on their daily plate, like our retired clients, are all about those to-do lists and like getting it done.
00:04:04.310 --> 00:04:09.589
But then if for our clients in their 30s and 40s, we're in that crunch time period.
00:04:09.670 --> 00:04:13.750
You know, we have younger kids at home, we're busy with our own work.
00:04:13.829 --> 00:04:18.230
And so understandably, that to-do list can fall by the wayside.
00:04:18.310 --> 00:04:19.990
Even so much of it is online now.
00:04:20.310 --> 00:04:23.750
So doing those beneficiary designations, all of those things.
00:04:24.069 --> 00:04:29.589
So just keeping in mind that it doesn't function unless you do your part, basically.
00:04:29.829 --> 00:04:29.990
Yeah.
00:04:30.149 --> 00:04:35.509
Are there little tactics or techniques you knew you use to push through the inertia in the process?
00:04:35.910 --> 00:04:40.389
We understand also that our, especially our younger clients, are very busy.
00:04:40.629 --> 00:04:45.910
So we try to plan those meetings out from the get-go.
00:04:46.149 --> 00:04:52.949
Once they decide that they want to move forward, we say, okay, this this is the number of meetings that are possible.
00:04:53.029 --> 00:04:57.189
This is what will happen at those meetings, no more than an hour each.
00:04:57.430 --> 00:05:02.629
Um, I really try to just have people get their calendars out and schedule.
00:05:02.789 --> 00:05:07.829
And what we say is that we'll put your signing date on all of your documents.
00:05:07.990 --> 00:05:09.589
So let's go ahead and schedule it.
00:05:09.829 --> 00:05:10.310
Nice.
00:05:10.550 --> 00:05:12.629
And then we can change it.
00:05:13.029 --> 00:05:14.469
But also it's on the calendar.
00:05:14.629 --> 00:05:17.029
That's just and it also signals to them this process will end.
00:05:17.110 --> 00:05:17.750
It's on this calendar.
00:05:18.149 --> 00:05:18.629
I know, right?
00:05:18.789 --> 00:05:20.709
You don't have to keep meeting with me.
00:05:20.789 --> 00:05:21.430
So that's number one.
00:05:21.509 --> 00:05:24.310
Number two, we're using an online estate planning tool.
00:05:24.550 --> 00:05:24.789
Yeah.
00:05:25.029 --> 00:05:28.149
So, yeah, what issues, what issues do you see with this?
00:05:28.469 --> 00:05:32.389
I mean, if you want to avoid probate, don't do that, please.
00:05:32.709 --> 00:05:41.029
It's not an error in the software, it's more that the software assumes that you know what you're doing.
00:05:41.189 --> 00:05:58.149
And the knowledge is so specialized that even if you have a set idea in mind of what you want to put in place, if you don't have have a strong background in estate planning law, you will not know how to fill it out.
00:05:58.389 --> 00:06:03.029
We do estate planning and probate, and we're trying to put the probate out of business.
00:06:03.269 --> 00:06:08.870
Our probate side frequently is fueled by these do-it-yourself estate plans.
00:06:09.029 --> 00:06:14.550
So it's more that people are trying and making a good faith effort, but don't know.
00:06:14.870 --> 00:06:22.629
Real quick on the probate side, could you offer just a quick definition to the audience of what's probate versus non-probate with estate planning?
00:06:23.110 --> 00:06:36.469
So probate is what happens after someone passes away when they have an asset or their entire estate that is not directed to a living person.
00:06:36.949 --> 00:06:49.029
So sometimes people just do beneficiary designations or like transfer on death, payable on death to somebody for all of their assets, and that would avoid probate.
00:06:49.349 --> 00:06:49.669
Got it.
00:06:50.069 --> 00:06:58.389
But also you can avoid probate if you send everything to a trust, and your trust is detailed on how you want your estate divided up.
00:06:58.870 --> 00:07:12.149
Impression is that probate is more costly usually to the estate, and then it can, depending on the state, not estate, the state the person who passed resides in, it may take a prolonged period of time to sort that out.
00:07:12.229 --> 00:07:13.589
And that varies by state.
00:07:13.909 --> 00:07:14.550
Exactly.
00:07:14.870 --> 00:07:23.589
So like the minimum amount of time that an estate would be in probate minimum is about six months to just sort it out.
00:07:23.750 --> 00:07:30.069
Similarly, the minimum cost to be expected with probate is like six to eight thousand dollars.
00:07:30.469 --> 00:07:30.709
Okay.
00:07:30.949 --> 00:07:32.069
Is that for Kansas?
00:07:32.310 --> 00:07:32.629
Yeah.
00:07:32.789 --> 00:07:33.029
Yep.
00:07:33.110 --> 00:07:33.349
Okay.
00:07:33.669 --> 00:07:34.149
For Kansas.
00:07:34.389 --> 00:07:34.629
Okay.
00:07:34.789 --> 00:07:35.509
Helpful to know.
00:07:35.589 --> 00:07:37.349
So saves costs, saves time.
00:07:37.589 --> 00:07:43.990
And my impression is that with if you've got your beneficiary designations in place properly, it could take a matter of weeks.
00:07:44.709 --> 00:07:48.949
You get a death certificate and present it to the custodian or whoever or the bank.
00:07:49.110 --> 00:07:49.349
Right.
00:07:49.509 --> 00:07:51.990
And they'll process their updates and transfer it over.
00:07:52.310 --> 00:07:52.629
Exactly.
00:07:53.110 --> 00:07:55.349
Less time and over generally less cost.
00:07:55.750 --> 00:07:57.829
So yeah, that's what as a planner, I'm always looking.
00:07:57.909 --> 00:07:59.029
Do you have a plan in place?
00:07:59.189 --> 00:07:59.990
Is there a trust?
00:08:00.149 --> 00:08:01.829
Do we have the trust properly funded?
00:08:01.990 --> 00:08:11.829
And if we think there's any question, we bring in the estate planning attorney and and get guidance on how to have everything titled properly and make sure this the estate is settled as you wish.
00:08:12.069 --> 00:08:12.310
Right.
00:08:12.469 --> 00:08:21.430
And that's our ideal is to work with someone's financial planner to make everything function the best possible way.
00:08:21.750 --> 00:08:21.990
Cool.
00:08:22.149 --> 00:08:22.469
Great.
00:08:22.629 --> 00:08:22.870
Yeah.
00:08:22.949 --> 00:08:39.750
So tying it back to the comments, basically, you know, when you're using online estate planning tools, the individual filling out the paperwork online digitally may not understand precisely what they're doing and may not be armed with the right information to follow through and actually set up your estate the proper way to match it.
00:08:39.990 --> 00:08:40.389
Exactly.
00:08:40.550 --> 00:08:40.789
Yep.
00:08:40.950 --> 00:08:41.110
Okay.
00:08:41.350 --> 00:08:48.149
And full disclosure, occasionally, if I think a client won't get an estate plan, I will add a digital tool to the list.
00:08:48.310 --> 00:08:50.870
I kind of say, here's all the places you should look.
00:08:51.110 --> 00:08:51.190
Right.
00:08:51.509 --> 00:08:52.789
Educate, research yourself.
00:08:52.950 --> 00:08:56.470
And I'm like, if if I don't think they will, well, this is better than zero.
00:08:56.710 --> 00:08:57.509
It's just not much.
00:08:59.110 --> 00:08:59.750
I'll take it.
00:09:01.430 --> 00:09:02.470
Um, very good.
00:09:02.629 --> 00:09:02.950
All right.
00:09:03.029 --> 00:09:17.669
Next on the list, common estate planning mistakes you may encounter is one is assuming it's one size fit fits all, meaning doing setting up your estate the same way your neighbor did or your parents did, just because they said that's the right way to do it.
00:09:17.909 --> 00:09:18.230
Right.
00:09:18.389 --> 00:09:18.629
Yeah.
00:09:18.870 --> 00:09:20.470
We see this play out both ways.
00:09:20.629 --> 00:09:24.789
Sometimes we'll have people call in and they're like, I want a trust.
00:09:24.949 --> 00:09:32.149
I need a trust, you know, and they're an a widow with one or two adult responsible children.
00:09:32.549 --> 00:09:33.830
They have one home.
00:09:33.990 --> 00:09:37.350
Everything is very tied down and simple in their estate.
00:09:37.509 --> 00:09:43.189
And we're like, we can create a trust for you, but you also are fine with a will only.
00:09:43.750 --> 00:09:50.549
And we're some estate planning attorneys are not as open to doing a will-only estate plan.
00:09:50.710 --> 00:10:01.029
We just don't want someone to feel like they have to go overboard if that's not how their estate is, and want to make sure to advise them on their options if they want to go that way.
00:10:01.269 --> 00:10:08.949
Um, conversely, though, we see people come in and they're opposed to a trust or, you know, say, um, oh, I only need a will.
00:10:09.110 --> 00:10:09.909
Things are very simple.
00:10:10.069 --> 00:10:12.230
And we're like, well, your wishes are simple.
00:10:12.389 --> 00:10:15.029
The way this will happen is not simple, you know.
00:10:15.110 --> 00:10:29.189
Um, and what I mean by that is like if an older couple, adult children, but they have four kids, um in that instance, their wishes are clear, their wishes are simple.
00:10:29.350 --> 00:10:32.470
It's like 25%, 25%, 25%, 25%.
00:10:33.189 --> 00:10:39.750
But doing that actually is not going to be simple, especially with real estate.
00:10:39.909 --> 00:10:42.389
You should really look into a trust in that situation.
00:10:42.949 --> 00:10:43.189
Yeah.
00:10:44.309 --> 00:10:54.470
When we're talking to clients and they feel like it's one size fits all, the way that we like to break it down is to think about their assets.
00:10:54.629 --> 00:11:07.429
So, like the complexity of their estate, whether they are a small business owner, whether they have multiple pieces of real estate, whether they have collections that they want to give to particular people.
00:11:07.669 --> 00:11:10.629
And we break it down into their specific wishes.
00:11:11.110 --> 00:11:15.750
Who do you want to distribute to and what are the ages of those people?
00:11:16.789 --> 00:11:26.870
So when you have minors, the only way that you can give to them without just giving outright is through a trust.
00:11:28.389 --> 00:11:41.350
So that's like I we feel like it would be negligent on our part to say, yes, let's give your children even like$100,000 when they turn 18.
00:11:41.830 --> 00:11:49.830
You know, we've all been 18, and you don't you don't make great choices when you're 18 with a lot of money.
00:11:50.230 --> 00:11:50.870
That makes sense.
00:11:50.949 --> 00:11:57.110
Yeah, and I'll have clients ask me, you know, well, what what what type of estate plan do I need?
00:11:57.269 --> 00:12:05.750
And besides the fact that I don't give legal advice, and so when on the surface it might look like a fairly simple situation, no kids, relatively simple finances.
00:12:05.909 --> 00:12:09.830
Yeah, I've seen enough to know, introduce the attorney and kind of get out of the way.
00:12:10.389 --> 00:12:10.549
Great.
00:12:10.789 --> 00:12:17.909
So the big piece of advice is if you're talking to your neighbor about their estate plan and they have one and you don't, that's that's really what you need to.
00:12:17.990 --> 00:12:18.949
That's your signal.
00:12:19.110 --> 00:12:19.509
Exactly.
00:12:19.830 --> 00:12:21.909
Not the type, but the fact that it exists.
00:12:22.309 --> 00:12:22.549
Right.
00:12:22.710 --> 00:12:22.949
Exactly.
00:12:23.110 --> 00:12:23.509
I know.
00:12:23.750 --> 00:12:26.949
Just go go talk to somebody and get one in place.
00:12:27.189 --> 00:12:27.830
Uh I like it.
00:12:27.990 --> 00:12:36.710
Next up on the list for common estate planning mistakes you encounter is assuming you don't need the ancillary documents that are involved with estate plan.
00:12:36.789 --> 00:12:37.429
Tell us about that.
00:12:37.750 --> 00:12:37.990
Okay.
00:12:38.149 --> 00:12:46.149
So, first of all, definition ancillary documents is the bucket for anything other than a will or a trust.
00:12:46.309 --> 00:12:50.389
So ancillary documents are the powers of attorney.
00:12:50.549 --> 00:12:58.149
So financial power of attorney, healthcare power of attorney, HIPAA waiver, and then advanced medical directive or living will.
00:12:58.470 --> 00:13:05.189
So a lot of times people say, okay, I need to get in touch with you because I need a will or I need a trust.
00:13:05.429 --> 00:13:11.909
Um, when we create an estate plan, we would be remiss if we didn't include all of your documents.
00:13:12.069 --> 00:13:15.189
And they'll say, Well, I don't want to pay for everything.
00:13:15.429 --> 00:13:17.350
Can I just get a will or a trust?
00:13:17.509 --> 00:13:19.029
And we're like, we hear you.
00:13:19.350 --> 00:13:23.189
But we can't predict what will happen in your life.
00:13:23.350 --> 00:13:33.750
And most frequently on our end, we see those ancillary documents playing a bigger role in whatever happens for you than actually the will or trust.
00:13:33.909 --> 00:13:38.470
Like the will or trust is a gift to your beneficiaries, to your people.
00:13:38.789 --> 00:14:01.830
But the powers of attorney and the living will, especially if you decide to get a living will, those are the ones that really, when push comes to shove, like if you become incapacitated, if you have a medical crisis or um a medical challenge, that's when those documents will come into play.
00:14:01.990 --> 00:14:04.230
And we just don't know when that might be.
00:14:04.389 --> 00:14:04.629
Yeah.
00:14:04.789 --> 00:14:04.949
Yeah.
00:14:05.029 --> 00:14:18.629
And I I think going back to the sandwich generation sort of moniker that this show is associated with, a lot of my clients themselves don't fortunately need these ancillary documents in their daily lives as frequently.
00:14:18.789 --> 00:14:21.429
They're still just as important, not to diminish that.
00:14:21.669 --> 00:14:23.029
But it's with their parents.
00:14:23.269 --> 00:14:29.029
When their parents have a health event or issue, it's a mess if we don't have the documents in place.
00:14:29.189 --> 00:14:43.830
I've experienced that with my clients trying to scramble to get to their parents wherever they are, and then run down the legal documents that allow them to talk to the doctors directly or help, you know, um, and financial powers attorney, those types of things.
00:14:43.909 --> 00:14:46.789
And so it's it's super important to do and do that proactively.
00:14:47.029 --> 00:14:48.389
Reactively is a mess.
00:14:48.629 --> 00:14:52.470
Proactively is wonderful because you actually get the parent's opinion.
00:14:52.949 --> 00:14:53.590
It's in place.
00:14:54.149 --> 00:15:04.549
And we have encountered situations where once someone is beyond having mental capacity, they cannot get the documents in place.
00:15:04.710 --> 00:15:07.669
And so it's like that opportunity has passed.
00:15:07.830 --> 00:15:21.189
And again, I'm we all have seen it with loved ones as they've aged, but it can happen so quickly that even with the best intentions, all of a sudden that opportunity is gone.
00:15:21.350 --> 00:15:21.669
Yeah.
00:15:21.830 --> 00:15:24.389
And then everyone is struggling to help.
00:15:24.629 --> 00:15:25.590
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:15:25.669 --> 00:15:30.230
It's it's it's really rough reactively and it's really great proactively.
00:15:30.389 --> 00:15:34.470
So very especially powerful for the aging parent.
00:15:34.789 --> 00:15:37.669
Okay, next up is letting your documents get stale.
00:15:37.909 --> 00:15:39.350
Yes, yes, yes.
00:15:39.590 --> 00:15:48.309
Um, so we always advise to our clients that they update their documents and look at them at least every five to ten years.
00:15:48.549 --> 00:15:52.710
But I was seeking my husband's perspective as a layperson.
00:15:53.110 --> 00:15:54.870
And like, what do you think?
00:15:55.029 --> 00:16:02.069
Because we're in that like busy, we have somewhat young children, we're both working stage.
00:16:02.230 --> 00:16:06.949
Um, and our lives change quite a bit during this time period.
00:16:07.189 --> 00:16:18.309
Where when we put our estate plan in place, we actually listed our parents as the people that we would have step in in multiple scenarios.
00:16:18.549 --> 00:16:27.029
Um, but as time passes on, it's like that actually is not as wise of a decision because our parents are aging.
00:16:27.189 --> 00:16:38.309
And my husband said, and I completely agree with him, that it really should be every two to five years during this busy time, just because those things shift.
00:16:38.549 --> 00:16:44.230
Um and we also say if anything major happens in your life.
00:16:44.470 --> 00:16:56.629
Um, so if a parent passes away, you're uh moving for sure, then you want to look at your estate plan, even if you're just moving homes in the same metro area.
00:16:56.870 --> 00:17:04.150
So all of it is situation dependent, but more frequent, of course, during this busy stage when you don't have time.
00:17:04.710 --> 00:17:06.309
And yeah, life changes fast.
00:17:06.470 --> 00:17:20.710
I mean, when you have start having kids and the people that you want as guardians and caring for your estate and potentially making decisions on how your kids will be raised in the horrible event that someone else would need to raise your kids, is that can change quickly and evolve.
00:17:21.029 --> 00:17:24.150
I see friends on there that aren't as close two years later.
00:17:24.390 --> 00:17:28.069
Or exactly siblings who have issues, or parents is quite common.
00:17:28.150 --> 00:17:36.309
And and and you're like, I don't know if they were I was okay with my parents raising my kids in their early 60s, but in their mid-70s doesn't make as much sense.
00:17:36.390 --> 00:17:36.790
I don't know.
00:17:36.870 --> 00:17:38.550
So yeah, exactly.
00:17:38.870 --> 00:17:42.790
And um it doesn't have to be like a complete revision.
00:17:42.950 --> 00:17:48.390
So we always advise just looking at your estate plan to remind yourself.
00:17:48.550 --> 00:17:58.310
Um, that is one of the services that we offer for people too, is an annual review to check in once a year and remind you like this is your estate plan.
00:17:58.470 --> 00:18:00.150
Are these still the people you want?
00:18:00.310 --> 00:18:09.750
And then if people have created their estate plan with us, we can update it for minimal charge and really make sure that it stays current.
00:18:09.990 --> 00:18:16.710
So once you have an estate planning professional that you trust, it's not that like threshold cost.
00:18:17.190 --> 00:18:22.790
Um, it's just making sure, like with every part of your life, just that the maintenance is happening.
00:18:23.030 --> 00:18:23.830
That's great advice.
00:18:23.990 --> 00:18:27.030
I think we try to at least force a dialogue every two years.
00:18:27.190 --> 00:18:34.550
And in the planning software we use, they have a really nice estate planning ledger where we get all the beneficiary titling listed.
00:18:34.630 --> 00:18:44.790
And so I'll encourage them to just flip through the document and just you know, if anything jumps out at them that's materially changed, let's just review it and get your get your attorney involved.
00:18:44.950 --> 00:18:46.550
So exactly good advice.
00:18:46.710 --> 00:18:47.910
All right, let's do a quick summary.
00:18:48.070 --> 00:18:51.190
So, number one, follow your attorney's advice and see it through.
00:18:51.430 --> 00:18:51.830
Please.
00:18:52.070 --> 00:18:57.670
Number two, uh, number two, be careful when using online estate planning tools.
00:18:57.830 --> 00:19:01.910
Number three, don't assume that everyone's estate plan needs are the same.
00:19:02.150 --> 00:19:06.470
Number four, trust the guidance of your professional with ancillary documents.
00:19:06.630 --> 00:19:06.870
Right.
00:19:07.030 --> 00:19:09.990
And number five, don't let your documents get stale.
00:19:10.150 --> 00:19:14.310
Review them every two to five years if you're in a busy chapter of your life.
00:19:14.550 --> 00:19:15.270
That's right.
00:19:15.509 --> 00:19:15.990
Awesome.
00:19:16.150 --> 00:19:19.509
Well, Annie, uh I I do have one last question for you.
00:19:20.150 --> 00:19:20.870
You're not done yet.
00:19:20.950 --> 00:19:23.590
Uh I have clients all over the country.
00:19:23.750 --> 00:19:31.110
What look a couple simple tips for helping somebody find, like locate an estate planning attorney that might be a fit for their needs.
00:19:31.190 --> 00:19:35.910
Are there boxes you want to see checked when somebody's out there looking for an estate planning attorney?
00:19:35.990 --> 00:19:39.030
I I hate not having solutions for my clients.
00:19:39.270 --> 00:19:40.630
It just drives me nuts.
00:19:40.870 --> 00:19:43.750
It's something I struggle with because I don't have a national network.
00:19:43.910 --> 00:19:44.870
I welcome your thoughts.
00:19:45.190 --> 00:19:45.430
Yeah.
00:19:45.670 --> 00:19:49.590
So most estate planning attorneys are part of different networks.
00:19:49.830 --> 00:19:53.590
It's a special empathetic breed to become an estate planning attorney.
00:19:53.750 --> 00:19:55.270
We're like, yeah, more is more.
00:19:55.509 --> 00:20:06.390
We're always willing to ask our network to look and make sure that we're referring out to trusted people and people that we would also want to be around.
00:20:06.550 --> 00:20:11.030
So that would be a first step if you're looking for someone in a different metro area.
00:20:11.350 --> 00:20:15.509
Don't be afraid to lean on your like estate planning attorney networks.
00:20:15.990 --> 00:20:16.470
Exactly.
00:20:16.630 --> 00:20:19.990
So like your business network, all of those things.
00:20:20.230 --> 00:20:22.710
Well, Annie, thank you for coming on the podcast.
00:20:22.950 --> 00:20:23.590
My pleasure.
00:20:23.670 --> 00:20:24.070
Thank you.
00:20:24.310 --> 00:20:25.430
Yeah, it's been a lot of fun.
00:20:25.509 --> 00:20:30.310
And and I think these are really awesome, concise, actionable ideas, which is our clients are busy.
00:20:30.390 --> 00:20:33.270
So we like concise, actionable, you know.
00:20:33.590 --> 00:20:35.110
That's what I'm after too, Tom.
00:20:35.509 --> 00:20:35.990
Awesome.
00:20:36.150 --> 00:20:39.750
Well, thanks again for coming on, and uh maybe we'll have to have you on again soon.
00:20:39.990 --> 00:20:40.710
I would love it.
00:20:40.870 --> 00:20:41.590
All right, Annie.
00:20:41.670 --> 00:20:42.070
Thanks so much.
