Building with Purpose: Entrepreneurship, Discipline, and Fatherhood with Marcus Hall of California Closets

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Welcome back to another episode of Risk and Resolve.
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Today's special guest is Marcus Hall, president and partner of California Closets Midwest franchise that oversees uh Indiana, Illinois, Kentucky, and Ohio.
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Also a grad of Ball State.
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Um, and definitely invested in the Indianapolis community.
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Marcus, thanks for joining us today.
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Yeah, thrilled to be on.
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Thanks for having me, and Todd.
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Yeah, before we uh talk about California closets, um, give us a little bit of background about you um and just a little bit of your story uh that uh growing up in that sort of thing.
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Yeah, yeah, happy to um grew up about an hour and a half north of Indianapolis in the big metropolis of Sweetzer, Indiana, not far from Swayze, which is the it might still hold the record for the most overtime basketball games ever, which was nine.
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Um small claim to fame when you create the middle of a of a cornfield.
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So yeah, grew up, grew up uh near Marion, Kokomo, and uh went to Huntington College for a year to play hoops and then went to Ball State after I retired from basketball to wrap things up and made my way to Indy after that and have have been uh an Indy resident ever since.
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And if uh if we have our choices, that won't change for the for the extended future.
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Yeah.
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What was your when you came to Indy, what was your first stop from an employment perspective?
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Man, it was uh many people won't remember this depending on your age, as the three of us were talking before we hit the cord.
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We probably will since we're older.
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Uh, but the RCA tennis championships was job number one.
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It was an internship that turned into uh full-time employment for the first couple of years of my professional experience.
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Um and it was an interesting, it was a blast, but you know, it was you know a week and a half every year, and you worked the other 51 weeks for one week of sort of performance and certainly the preparation before it, but that was my first full-time job.
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Um, that was uh that was a a great experience, not the most lucrative opportunity, but it was a great experience.
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What part of it was what we say it's a great experience?
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What are some things that stand out?
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Like, I really picked up this or that from the RCA tennis championships.
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Well, I think I think it's a good question.
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There's two things.
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Um, I don't know if anyone's anyone's ever asked me that, but one, it's it's the appreciation of like sports as sort of this conduit for connectivity.
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I met some incredible people, one of my best friends, uh Dave Neff, and uh, you know, met him at that uh at that event.
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I've met some mentors, my now business partners uh I met at that event.
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Um so there's a lot of unique relationships that I can attribute back to that.
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Um, but sports has always been kind of a unique way to connect for me, and and that certainly was true in my first uh first stop from an employment perspective as well.
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Yeah.
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And I know you're a major champion for the city uh and are you know you're strategic and getting involved and making sure that you're giving back.
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Did did that experience light something in you uh for the city, or was there something down the line that really kind of you know lit up your heart for the city of Indianapolis?
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Yeah, I think that that was definitely a really critical first sort of point of exposure for that.
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There was the the chairman of the Indianapolis Tennis Championships, Kevin Martin, um who's a great leader and um you know community advocate here in Indianapolis, he modeled that a great deal for me.
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So I go from that experience and then I go to um, you know, one of the one of the greats, not just in Indianapolis, but in I think the country and the world, and Jim Morris watched him, how he operated at the Pacers when I was there, um, and just what it meant to contribute to uh creating a vibrant city.
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Uh so I've I've been able to um watch a lot of leaders lean in and contribute outside of their family responsibilities and maybe their vocational duties to making this city really special and and uh try to continue that legacy.
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So I I watched a lot of that, and I think it's probably just been trying to model some of that behavior and contribute in a small way to carry that forward.
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Um Indianapolis has got a unique reputation, I think, for being kind of the amateur sports capital initially and now um really making a name and hosting Super Bowls.
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I've got the Final Four coming up next month.
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Um, so it's uh it it's it's a pretty special place for things like that.
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Absolutely.
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Um you know, as we've been friends for for a while now, you've always had uh entrepreneurial itch, if you will, even even going back to the Pacer days and and that sort of thing.
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Um and I think you've had obviously we'll get into the your current situation and and being an entrepreneur uh through this experience, but you had some like side hustles along the way too, right?
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Yeah, yep, sure did.
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Uh some some failed ventures, some unique lessons learned.
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Um yeah, but but was was maybe constantly scratching that entrepreneurial itch.
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Uh thankfully have wound up in a place and around some really great people to realize a more viable venture today in our current business.
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But yeah, we we had some uh some ideas and some some lessons.
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I don't have my MBA formally, but we had some pretty terrible ideas that that we tested.
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And you know, one of my favorite ones was I love sport coats and pocket squares, and I thought everybody would love pocket squares, so we should create a pocket square subscription business.
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And that taught me about something called total addressable market.
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And if you don't understand that the total addressable market for pocket squares is really small, you're gonna find out quickly when you try to build a business around that.
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But uh stuffing pocket squares and envelopes and putting postage labels was an early part of my marriage and have some fond memories, but I'm grateful for those lessons.
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It certainly taught me a lot.
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Oh, yeah.
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Well, Todd and I have stories too about uh those sorts of things as well, and failed ventures and that kind of thing.
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But that's it teaches resilience, and actually some of those experiences, you know, from I'll speak for myself, uh has 100% uh made me a better leader in the opportunity that actually is became the real opportunity for me.
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Uh, which praise praise the Lord for that.
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Do you do you have you know some things that you learned along the way that you feel like carried over well and kind of gave you maybe a better baseline for the the real opportunity that presented itself through California closets?
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Yeah, I think that's it's a good question.
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I I I'll probably butcher the quote, but there's this adage of like, hey, if if you spend forever keeping your options open and having a bunch of side hustles, you'll always have your options open and a bunch of side hustles versus like I if anything, it taught me that like, hey, we're just gonna focus on like doing the very best at a singular thing.
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Um, and certainly, you know, from the investment strategy or retirement or those kind of things, we we think about that.
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But we're gonna go all in and and do really great at a single thing versus trying to do a bunch of um a bunch of different ideas at once and do none of them well, right?
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Be a mile wide in an inch in an inch deep kind of concept.
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So how how how did you uh tell us a story about you know your navigation to where you're today and the people you met along the way and kind of how the opportunity to lead the Midwest California Closets franchise?
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How did that how did that come to life?
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Yeah, yeah, I think um there was a period, so I went from sports marketing into software, um, got to experience what a lot of um a lot of young professionals did in Indianapolis, and that was ride the exact target rocket ship with just some tremendous leaders, um, and learn a lot about at least um in a in a position of an individual contributor and an employee, what it looks like to grow a fast scaling organization with really unique culture.
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And so I I was in that organization for several years, was part of the acquisition, hung around for a couple years um at Salesforce, and then got the the idea that hey, young marriage, thinking about kids, and the the you know, life's gonna look different, and the optionality uh will also probably look different as those responsibilities increase.
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So started to shop around for some opportunities to possibly buy a business.
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This was pre the energy around entrepreneurship through acquisition.
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It was kind of early search fund.
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So I had I had started to understand some of these terms that were thrown around and the idea of buying an existing thing that was already operating, had some level of inertia I thought was more my cup of tea.
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I I don't consider myself an entrepreneur candidly.
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I think that like people that duct tape the credit cards together, push all the chips in and like you know, are are not eating to hit payroll.
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That is that is an entrepreneur at its truest form.
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Um I'm some version of that, but um I had a couple mentors, now business partners, that were helping me look at some businesses.
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We looked at some bad ones, and I think they saved me from buying some bad businesses just for the sake of being able to buy one and do it.
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Um, but looked at a retail business, landscaping, and industries that I I like, but just the businesses that they weren't good, and and having people who have done this multiple times in your uh back pocket to be able to help you avoid stubbing your toe in a big way was just incredible.
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And over the course of those conversations, my partners had a uh private equity or permanent equity organization.
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They had a brand that needed someone to buy in to become an operating partner and president, and just over the course of us looking at deals and helping me avoid bad ones, it I think you know, God has a way of just kind of revealing these opportunities that was like, hey, would you want to come do this?
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I know we've shot down all these ideas with you that you've been looking at, and it was I I wish there was some unique big aha, but it was like, yeah, that probably makes a lot of sense.
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And I like you guys a lot, and you like me and we're value, fit, and you know, I've I've known them ever since the tennis championships.
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The funny story is though, like I tried to sell my now business partners.
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I tried to sell them stuff at the tennis tournament, never bought anything.
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I tried to sell them stuff at the Pacers, never bought anything.
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I don't think I tried to sell them software at exact target, but they never bought anything from me.
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So I'm not sure why they thought I'd be a good business partner, but oh, that's uh that's they skipped all that and bought you lock, stock, and barrel.
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That's right, that's right.
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So let me get this right.
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You've got a couple guys that you meet at the tennis championship, get to know them there, you're in the sports deal, sports marketing out of out of college.
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You then move to more sports marketing at the Pacers, and then you move into some still flashy stuff, software, uh peak, peak time period for exact target, moving into Salesforce.
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And then these two individuals who were former clients, I guess, or you know, you tried to, you met them at the tennis championship, they become mentors to coach you.
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Do you think they had a plan in mind?
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Do you think now looking back after working with them 10 years that their plan to mentor you to buy a business was just their way of getting to know you a little better?
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Maybe, Ty, they're they're wicked smart.
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So that that could very well be true.
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You know, my brother works for this uh kind of portfolio of companies as well.
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He's worked here longer, and maybe that was part of the strategy too, right?
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They they got him into the mix, and I heard how much he loved being part of the the broader kind of suite of brands.
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And uh that that maybe with that they might say that was the plan all along, but it certainly didn't feel that way.
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We we had a very uh special organic relationship.
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I mean, just tons of alignment.
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We we played hoops together, we would golf together, we'd go to events together, um, a lot of faith alignment.
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So it was just a really cool friendship and mentorship.
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Well, definitely time spent and time worthwhile.
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So obviously, the name California Closets, you guys do a lot of stuff outside California, probably most of your stuff outside that state, as well as outside the closet.
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So, where in the home can we find your products or where where should we put your products inside of our homes?
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Yeah, that that's the that's the the beautiful thing about our brand is we're kind of the Kleenex people know they think they think of California closets when they think about a custom closet, which is fantastic.
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Um, I think what people don't realize, much like the stuff behind me, is there's any any application of our system um throughout the home, just about any.
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We don't do a kitchen or you know, uh some rooms like that, but you think about the trend of work from home, you think about this hybrid environment.
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Home office has been an explosive category for us.
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Uh pantry, kitchen, or excuse me, pantry, uh, garage, uh, laundry, you name it, other than the kitchen, and we think we have a creative approach.
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We custom design, manufacture everything here on the near east side of Indianapolis, and then get it out to our team across the four states we operate in to essentially go out and build it in your home or office.
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Well, that was a question I had.
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So, as a franchisee, you're not buying finished product from the franchise or you're actually participating in the actual manufacture of the product.
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I'd like to learn more about that.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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So we've got about 30,000 square feet uh just on the nearest side of downtown Indy, where we we make everything.
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We bring in all the raw material.
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Our team will come out, they'll design everything to the room, to the fit, to the finish you desire, uh, and then our engineering team will program that.
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And then we'll get to work here and we make it.
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We've got about 15 teammates here, part of our production organization where we're we're manufacturing everything from start to finish, uh, and then either getting it out to our installed technicians in Indiana or getting it shipped to all of our locations across the Midwest.
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Can I install it myself?
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Is it that simple or is it a little more complicated than that?
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We we would love to do that for you, Todd.
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Uh, we've got a warranty and we've got uh customer experience that we think is pretty special and pretty unique.
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Uh and so it's turnkey solution.
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Good good answer.
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As you've uh as you've gotten into the business, what have been what have been some of the the things that you have learned?
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What are some key things you have learned as a leader in in this first part of your career with uh California closets and and being being the guy, the owner and and the leader of that business?
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That's a long list, Ben.
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Um yeah, that's there's a lot that I have learned.
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Um it has been a very humbling journey, I would say for the past 10 years.
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Um as a recovering sales guy who didn't feel like he had a lot of tools in the leadership tool belt, still probably don't.
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I don't, but um, there's just been a lot.
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I think you know, situational leadership has been a big thing, and and there's certainly a textbook element to that of the different leadership styles, but having to lead and manage and support a team through something like COVID as an example, um you know, when the world's shutting down and and and you know, navigating that, making making decisions when they need to be made with little information is sort of the name of the game.
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Um and that's just one time period over the past 10 years.
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Um at the end of the day, it's such a cop out, but I have learned that there are very few things I'm really good at.
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There's lots that I'm not.
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Um, and and if I can get people to buy into what we're building, why we're building it, this idea of impact and and sort of the reason that we're competing.
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If I can get them to come in here and help fill in all the gaps in my own skill set, get out of the way and support them, uh, we're gonna do something pretty special.
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And that's just been the recipe.
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It's like, you know, hire people smarter than me.
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Not a really transformational idea, but support them, get out of the way.
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I do have a, you know, my team I think loves and hates that I push hard and I have high expectations, but it's because I'm surrounded by people with exponential potential, and I just want to make sure that they get to achieve that.
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Was the for you personally, was the getting out of the way part difficult?
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And the reason why I ask, I mean, you came from you said recovering sales, sales individual, and you know, in sales, you you kind of control beginning to end, and you know, it's obviously an individual contributor role, and then going to a leadership role where I mean you already mentioned, you know, a design, engineer, uh, production, and install.
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I mean, those are four different uh divisions of sorts, you know.
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You're not individually contributing, you're not gritting that one out.
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Was that was that something that was easy to learn because it was it's so vast of what you're doing, or was that hard to not have to like to want to grind it out yourself?
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Yeah, it's a good question.
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I it's it's funny because I think I'm not being cheeky in my answer because I'm sort of a generalist, I'm not really good at anything per se, or exponential, exponentially great at anything.
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Um, I don't have the luxury, like I can't go install something, and I'm an okay salesperson.
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I'm not a CFO and how to turn the machine on, right?
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Like, so I like listen to learn, ask to empower.
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And I think that you know, the greatest form of intelligence, the what the the way I think about true intelligence is like can be judged by the type of questions you ask.
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So I'm just I'm genuinely curious.
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Um, and so I try to ask good questions, try to listen, try to be extremely empathetic.
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I think there's this misnomer of like the whole E myth of, hey, I want to be nose in, fingers out of the business, and just up here watching it all happen.
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That's just not the reality.
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You know, there's a constant, okay, we've got a challenge operationally.
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I need to go participate, ask questions, investigate, help cultivate, you know, the kind of the root cause analysis, support the team to find a resolution.
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I do step back.
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And okay, now we've got a pinch point over here in marketing or in sales.
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And so just trying to try to continue to move the ball forward um with people and through others.
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That's that's just a constant learning evolution.
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Have you uh studied your practice of asking better questions, or has that just come with just getting better every every you know, every week, every day?
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I I'm constantly making notes.
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I was just pulling up here on my phone.
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Um uh uh I keep a just a note on my iPhone of questions that I hear people ask that I think are good or compelling.
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Um the the default one is you know, it's it's overplayed, but tell me more.
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Yeah.
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And then and then we have the pregnant pause, right?
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It's interesting when it gets built in once we once we once we hit them with the tell me more and and and then what we can hear.
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I think the challenge is as leaders, it it's and I think this has changed in my opinion from command and control to just ask and listen.
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Um, because I I just don't think that plays well anymore.
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At least at least culturally, what we're building that wouldn't be normal for kind of command and control and constantly directive.
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How many questions do you have on that list, do you think?
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That is a good question.
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Um I don't know, I don't have them numbered.
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I did just read an incredible book, um, The Art of Asking Better Questions.
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Uh I think he's a former pastor, but it's a fantastic book.
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And you talk about I added a boatload to the list just from that book.
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Okay.
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What are what are some of your favorite draw out, learn something about someone or something questions, in addition to tell me more?
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Um, okay, I'll just give you a couple.
00:21:17.519 --> 00:21:21.119
Um what are you passionate about right now?
00:21:21.440 --> 00:21:22.960
Can we can we dig into that?
00:21:23.119 --> 00:21:25.279
I'm gonna I I have to stop you right now.
00:21:25.440 --> 00:21:33.039
So, in a professional setting as a leader of a business, you ask what breaks your heart.
00:21:33.440 --> 00:21:33.759
Okay.
00:21:34.240 --> 00:21:36.960
So what type of responses do you get?
00:21:37.119 --> 00:21:40.240
And and where where does that drive conversation?
00:21:41.599 --> 00:21:46.079
Uh you you get a lot of you get a lot of different quite uh responses.
00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:49.920
Uh it's it's interesting.
00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:51.920
We just had this debate, and it's funny you bring this up.
00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:52.960
So there's Shocker.
00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:56.559
There's a book, 365 Questions by Brett Ludbetter.
00:21:56.640 --> 00:21:59.759
He's a kind of a uh well-known coach.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:04.720
Unfortunately, he coaches the Oklahoma City Thunder, which too soon to talk about that.
00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:09.839
But um he's got this book, and and I heard him speak at a at an event not too long ago.
00:22:10.160 --> 00:22:20.240
But I I brought this up um with a group not too long ago, and I said, you know, I start we start our executive meetings and I'll just say, hey, pick a number and I'll open a page.
00:22:20.480 --> 00:22:22.799
And these are these are like questions like that.
00:22:22.960 --> 00:22:27.519
They are highly relational, rather intimate.
00:22:27.680 --> 00:22:28.559
But it's interesting.
00:22:28.640 --> 00:22:40.559
I think that like if if we're gonna be in the trenches grinding it out and kind of going to battle every day as a team, it's it's gonna be pretty imperative to to have a high level of relational equity.
00:22:40.880 --> 00:22:41.839
I'll give you one example.
00:22:41.920 --> 00:22:50.079
We had a company retreat, our corporate, our leadership team where we spend you know three days whiteboarding the strategy and the long-term vision and all this.
00:22:50.240 --> 00:22:54.480
I opened day two, I opened day two with a question, somebody picks the question out.
00:22:55.200 --> 00:23:01.119
Um, and it the question is, hey, what's the most recent person you've had to bury?
00:23:01.200 --> 00:23:02.160
And how did that make you feel?
00:23:02.319 --> 00:23:05.200
It was something about losing someone, someone passing away.
00:23:05.359 --> 00:23:07.119
And I'm facilitating this retreat.
00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:10.480
And my dad had just passed away like four days before that.
00:23:10.799 --> 00:23:11.839
Oh my gosh.
00:23:12.160 --> 00:23:19.119
And so immediately when one of my teammates picked the number and I read the question, they were like, we don't have to do that one.
00:23:19.359 --> 00:23:24.000
We we can, and I'm like, this is there's a reason this question came up.
00:23:24.160 --> 00:23:26.240
We're gonna we're gonna wade through this together.
00:23:26.319 --> 00:23:34.079
And I processed um maybe emotionally with my leadership team what it felt like to just lose my dad.
00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:36.640
And I said, There's this, this is healthy.
00:23:36.799 --> 00:23:52.000
This is healthy for me to talk about what I'm feeling, why I'm here four days after, you know, and so that's probably an example of like why or how we're leaning into this deep relationship, because I mean we we're we're spending a lot of time together.
00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:58.160
People need to know who I am, and I bring the whole markets to work, and I I want them to do the same.
00:23:58.480 --> 00:23:59.680
That's awesome.
00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:14.000
Do you find that your team because obviously, I mean, you slow played it a little bit, Marcus, of being a student of question asking, but you just like ripped off two books that you read about asking questions.
00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:25.119
Um, do you do you think that that is like a key part of your culture is being a student of asking good questions?
00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:26.720
I hope so.
00:24:26.880 --> 00:24:27.599
Yeah, I hope so.
00:24:27.680 --> 00:24:31.680
I don't I've never articulated it or thought about it that way, but I would certainly hope so.
00:24:31.839 --> 00:24:36.079
Yeah, I mean, practice continuous improvement is one of our values.
00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:43.039
Um I talk probably obnoxiously to the team about what are you reading, what are you listening to, what are you consuming?
00:24:43.279 --> 00:24:45.680
Um, I was such a terrible student.
00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:53.920
I feel like I've got this perpetual desire and need to feel like I'm learning all the time to make up for all the ground I lost, I feel like growing up.
00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:58.559
So um I would hope that would be sort of culturally true.
00:24:59.440 --> 00:24:59.839
Yeah.
00:25:00.079 --> 00:25:01.759
Thanks for sharing that story.
00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:04.880
Um what are some other questions on your list?
00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:07.279
There's a lot here.
00:25:07.519 --> 00:25:11.359
Um some of these are are are really specific.
00:25:11.680 --> 00:25:14.799
Um what are you passionate about?
00:25:15.279 --> 00:25:18.880
What were what would you be doing right now if you weren't afraid of failing?
00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:22.160
Where are you getting joy right now?
00:25:22.720 --> 00:25:28.640
If someone gave you a free ticket to fly anywhere in the world for one week, where are you going and why?
00:25:29.519 --> 00:25:30.960
I have this hard.
00:25:31.599 --> 00:25:34.000
We just my wife and I just went to an event last night.
00:25:34.160 --> 00:25:44.559
I have this hard, I have a hard time getting engaged in the small talk, this kind of the in-passing networking thing.
00:25:44.720 --> 00:25:53.279
So I'm known for, and my wife has a love hate with it, but she'll warns my people when we go to dinner with groups, it's like, hey guys, like Marcus is probably gonna ask some questions.
00:25:53.440 --> 00:25:56.000
And it's not like, hey, did your team win the ballgame?
00:25:56.160 --> 00:25:57.839
Like, we're gonna go somewhere.
00:25:58.000 --> 00:26:05.440
And it's funny because I I think it's just a way more enjoyable relationship building type of experience.
00:26:05.599 --> 00:26:08.400
Um, and so I do the same thing at work often.
00:26:08.720 --> 00:26:14.880
Uh and it's it's I'm not proposing, it's just genuinely um the way I operate.
00:26:15.039 --> 00:26:18.240
So I love that.
00:26:18.400 --> 00:26:18.880
That's great.
00:26:19.119 --> 00:26:22.400
So this is uh this is kind of a big year for you, I think.
00:26:23.119 --> 00:26:24.799
20 years post-college?
00:26:26.559 --> 00:26:32.240
I hadn't thought about that, Todd, but thanks for thanks for reminding me of my my age.
00:26:32.640 --> 00:26:33.839
You're welcome.
00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:42.720
My next question will probably fall flat then when I ask, what have you thought about being about mid-career?
00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:47.599
I wonder if I'm mid-career.
00:26:47.839 --> 00:26:59.200
Um well, I just just had breakfast with a uh young gentleman who desires to kind of go the entrepreneurial path.
00:26:59.759 --> 00:27:06.480
Um, and I was running with my neighbor this morning and we talked about like peak earning, peak, peak working year.
00:27:06.559 --> 00:27:09.680
I I feel like I'm just getting warmed up.
00:27:09.759 --> 00:27:14.400
Don't tell my wife that she probably thinks we're retiring at some point in the not so distant future.
00:27:14.559 --> 00:27:18.000
But like I just, yeah, I maybe I'm at the halfway point.
00:27:18.079 --> 00:27:19.279
Uh I don't know.
00:27:19.519 --> 00:27:25.359
But I I love I love, I don't say the game of business, but I I love what we do.
00:27:25.519 --> 00:27:35.440
I love I love setting goals with people and working really hard and then the the joy of of winning and then the challenge of of defeat.
00:27:35.599 --> 00:27:39.200
Um I just I just I have a blast doing what we do.
00:27:39.440 --> 00:27:45.599
I often joke about retirement because I don't this will probably change, but I don't I don't believe in the concept.
00:27:45.839 --> 00:27:53.839
I'm not interested in hanging up the the backpack and you know dying slowly in a rocking chair.
00:27:54.000 --> 00:28:00.480
I think God's given me some unique abilities and I intend to fully exhaust what he's given me as long as I can.
00:28:00.559 --> 00:28:06.880
And as well as while I honor my wife, and we've got twin girls, um, they are you know one A and one B.
00:28:07.039 --> 00:28:12.000
But um I I hope I hope to be competing for a long time.
00:28:12.160 --> 00:28:14.240
Maybe maybe I'm at halfway, but we'll see.
00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:15.279
Yeah, maybe not.
00:28:15.440 --> 00:28:19.680
Where's the blue sky and green pasture uh for California closets?
00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:21.680
Um, you call it Midwest, right?
00:28:21.759 --> 00:28:22.640
Not Central Indiana.
00:28:22.880 --> 00:28:25.440
You got a broader than just Indiana territory.
00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:28.400
Where's the blue where's the blue sky for you guys?
00:28:28.799 --> 00:28:36.960
You know, we think we think we've got a tremendous opportunity uh from the geographies that we we own and operate in today throughout the Midwest.
00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:44.640
Um we've only opened one new showroom in the past couple of years, so there's probably opportunity to plant some new flags.
00:28:44.880 --> 00:28:56.319
Um but if we just look at the homeowners at kind of permits getting pulled, home transactions and all the states and zip codes that we own, there's there's significant opportunity and upside.
00:28:56.400 --> 00:28:59.599
And there it's it's a there's lots of competitors and new ones all the time.
00:28:59.759 --> 00:29:01.599
I don't get overly concerned with that.
00:29:01.680 --> 00:29:05.680
I think there's enough there's enough of the pie for all of us to continue growing, hopefully.
00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:15.200
And then as you mentioned, like as we help people understand it's more than just the closet in the home, you probably have you know 10 to 15 spaces in most homes that we could serve.
00:29:15.440 --> 00:29:19.359
So continuing to evangelize uh and kind of share that message.
00:29:19.599 --> 00:29:24.000
But we think that uh there's a lot of opportunity, a lot of needle bones still.
00:29:24.319 --> 00:29:39.039
Do you find yourself selling more to homes that are maybe uh 10 to 20 years old or brand new construction builds, new home homeowner wants to finish out a space that maybe the builder didn't have an option for?
00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:41.440
It just depends.
00:29:41.759 --> 00:29:53.599
I mean, we typically it's an existing home that we're going into, but if if building is is exploding, and there's a it's not the case today, it's not explosive in terms of permits getting pulled and shovels in the ground.
00:29:53.680 --> 00:29:58.480
But if if that swings way up, I wouldn't anticipate us to ride that as well.
00:29:58.640 --> 00:30:18.640
But um, you know, coming coming post-COVID like this, everybody kind of hung around at home, and depending on where where rates were at, lots of folks were just gonna stick stick to their current home or are sticking to their current home, but they don't like the garage anymore, or they they don't like the kids' playroom, and so they're gonna make the changes to those, and we love that too.
00:30:18.799 --> 00:30:30.240
Um, but typically when there's there's life events, you know, there's a baby coming, or we're moving, or we're getting married and moving into that, those are when we get the phone call of, hey, we got a we got a challenge to solve.
00:30:30.400 --> 00:30:32.640
We got some stress, help us kind of eliminate that.
00:30:32.960 --> 00:30:34.079
Do you market to that?
00:30:34.240 --> 00:30:42.960
Do you pull lists based upon those triggers and try to identify those people and answer the questions they're sort of already asking themselves as to what to do with that corner?
00:30:43.279 --> 00:30:45.039
Yeah, as best as best we can.
00:30:45.119 --> 00:30:45.759
Yeah.
00:30:46.720 --> 00:30:50.720
What's the average um project price range?
00:30:50.799 --> 00:30:53.200
And I know that probably swings wildly.
00:30:53.839 --> 00:30:55.039
Yeah, it it does.
00:30:55.920 --> 00:30:57.920
There is a significant spread.
00:30:58.160 --> 00:31:00.000
Um, we we've done projects.
00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:06.160
I've looked this week, we've done a couple hundred dollar closet, you know, we've done a$50,000 home office.
00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:11.440
So I it really just depends on um on the complexity.
00:31:11.599 --> 00:31:14.799
And because everything we do is it's custom, it's one of one.
00:31:15.039 --> 00:31:22.799
So you may want all the bells and whistles and lighting and crown molding and um automated movements and different things.
00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:26.480
Uh the other person might just want the bare bones basic shelving.
00:31:26.559 --> 00:31:32.480
Um, and so our our ability to be custom, it just allows us to serve a big swath of customers.
00:31:32.720 --> 00:31:38.720
I read something about you guys deploying some virtual reality to do some maybe majoring and design optionality.
00:31:38.880 --> 00:31:41.359
Is that across your franchise as well?
00:31:41.839 --> 00:31:45.200
Yeah, we've got some capabilities with our CAD software.
00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:49.920
Um we're always tinkering with things on the bleeding edge.
00:31:50.160 --> 00:32:07.440
We're not all consumed with everything that's happening from a virtual reality or an AI perspective, but we're trying to stay informed and educated uh and innovate uh to the extent that we can while we also focus on just chop wood, carry water with a core thing that we've got.
00:32:07.759 --> 00:32:15.440
I I bet you've done at least one project that you remember that was quite unique, maybe two or three.
00:32:15.759 --> 00:32:23.279
What is a unique project that your location has done that you thought, I don't think we'll ever do something like this again?
00:32:23.759 --> 00:32:27.680
Without exposing any clients, which we don't talk about.
00:32:27.839 --> 00:32:32.240
You know, there is I think we've done something similar to a safe room.
00:32:32.480 --> 00:32:37.119
Um I think we've we've done a multi-level closet.
00:32:37.279 --> 00:32:47.039
I'm a I'm a bit of a recovering sneakerhead, so I can recall some incredible sneaker displays that uh I saw the finished pictures with envy.
00:32:47.359 --> 00:33:08.079
Um, but that's one of my favorite things is every day our team out in the field, they upload all these photos of the finished product, and it's it's pretty cool to see what clients have dreamed up, what our design team has has drawn up, what the engineering team made possible, the guys and the team here manufactured it, and then the installer like delivers it to a T.
00:33:08.400 --> 00:33:13.119
Um, and you'd never know they were in your home because it cleaned up better than it was when they got there.
00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:15.839
And they may have hung the TV because you needed help with that.
00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:19.039
Like uh it's it's pretty cool to see stuff come to life.
00:33:19.359 --> 00:33:22.480
How many installations a month do you think you guys put in?
00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:24.640
Start and complete per month?
00:33:26.079 --> 00:33:27.119
That's a good question.
00:33:27.279 --> 00:33:29.279
I should I wish they we should know our numbers, Todd.
00:33:29.440 --> 00:33:30.400
You're putting me on the spot.
00:33:30.559 --> 00:33:31.599
It's a couple hundred.
00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:33.039
That's a lot.
00:33:33.440 --> 00:33:34.799
That's a lot of people.
00:33:35.200 --> 00:33:37.759
Probably means you get a lot of repeat business too.
00:33:38.160 --> 00:33:38.880
We do, yeah.
00:33:39.039 --> 00:33:48.000
We've got a it's hard to believe, but we've we had a 96 NPS last year, which um it's it's pretty baffling.
00:33:48.400 --> 00:33:54.400
But our team, our team does an incredible job of creating a one-of-a-kind experience.
00:33:54.480 --> 00:33:57.599
So yeah, high repeat, uh, high referral.
00:33:57.680 --> 00:34:01.279
Uh, but the NPS is it's it's baffling.
00:34:01.359 --> 00:34:03.839
I I remember for years I didn't really trust the data.
00:34:03.920 --> 00:34:10.320
I like that's a wild number on an NPS score for a brand like ours direct to consumer.
00:34:10.559 --> 00:34:11.280
But it's true.
00:34:11.440 --> 00:34:16.559
I mean, we we deliver on the team, just flat out delivers uh almost every time.
00:34:16.880 --> 00:34:23.840
Probably goes back to that comment you made earlier where you said, Todd, we like to do that for you to provide a better experience.
00:34:24.079 --> 00:34:37.360
And uh when you've got that kind of mindset, you leave really nothing for me, the customer, to do, and you just end up creating what I envisioned, and that's gonna get you at 96, 97, 98, 99 NPS for sure.
00:34:37.599 --> 00:34:38.800
That's right, that's right.
00:34:39.039 --> 00:34:48.400
Well, and you mentioned that hey, we're gonna clean up better than you know when we got there, and oh, we'll hang your TV on the way out.
00:34:48.559 --> 00:34:56.960
I mean, that's a that's a culture of going the extra mile and making sure that the customer is just wowed by the experience.
00:34:57.119 --> 00:34:58.320
So good for you guys.
00:34:58.639 --> 00:35:03.440
Yeah, yeah, there's definitely an element of serving with the you know throughout the organization.
00:35:03.840 --> 00:35:09.440
Well, one question and I kind of hate going back, but I missed my opportunity to ask it.
00:35:09.679 --> 00:35:16.159
Um, what made Threefold the the right fit for you?
00:35:18.480 --> 00:35:19.840
Yeah, it's it's it's funny.
00:35:19.920 --> 00:35:27.119
That was a lot of my conversation this morning with this young uh uh entrepreneur or desiring entrepreneur this morning.
00:35:27.360 --> 00:35:41.199
You know, I I was able to, and probably with the help of of Mark and Charlie and other mentors in my life, I was able to see my limitations um pretty clearly.
00:35:41.440 --> 00:35:51.760
Uh, and so I I think I I am reminded of them often, but I was able to see what I where I had some gaps um in in terms of running a business.
00:35:51.920 --> 00:36:03.119
And and I felt like, and it's been validated 10 times over, but I felt like threefold Mark and Charlie and the system would help fill in some of those gaps, if not all of them.
00:36:03.840 --> 00:36:19.280
And then to be faith aligned with my business partners, knowing that when push comes to shove, when the difficult situations, as you guys know, as business owners are certainly gonna come up, we are aligned in how we're gonna handle them.
00:36:19.360 --> 00:36:21.039
We're gonna try to care for the individual.
00:36:21.199 --> 00:36:25.280
We're gonna talk about what it looks like to build this thing with the kingdom impact in mind.
00:36:25.519 --> 00:36:34.880
Um, that that was sort of the end all be all, knowing that uh we there's no question about what what we're competing for and how we're gonna do it.
00:36:35.039 --> 00:36:37.920
Um, because it's it's hard.
00:36:38.320 --> 00:36:49.440
You guys know it's hard to to to kind of kind of do this entrepreneurial thing, um, but to have value aligned teammates, um, it's pretty priceless.
00:36:50.800 --> 00:36:54.239
Um, I know you're a very disciplined individual.
00:36:54.480 --> 00:37:01.679
Um yeah, you you you read a lot, um, you have uh uh strong routines.
00:37:02.239 --> 00:37:14.639
Um can you speak a little bit to both of that, both of those things about uh just your desire to to read and learn, but also maybe and sorry for a two-part question.
00:37:14.719 --> 00:37:22.079
I know those those always stink, but what are some routines that you have in place that are like incredibly important to you?
00:37:24.320 --> 00:37:32.159
Well, yeah, so on the just on the reading thing, I made the joke earlier, but I I really do I feel I terrible in high school.
00:37:32.239 --> 00:37:43.840
I need to pull my transcripts because I I think I was like the bottom 10%, but terrible in high school, terrible in college, um barely graduated, you know, both give or take.
00:37:43.920 --> 00:37:49.840
I was a good enough student to make sure I played sports essentially, but I just have this chip on my shoulder.
00:37:49.920 --> 00:37:55.599
It's like I I feel there's probably something I need to process there, but I feel so inadequate all the time.
00:37:55.679 --> 00:37:59.360
So I'm like, I'm I need to read a lot to to learn.
00:37:59.519 --> 00:38:02.880
And I never paid attention enough, so I'm gonna I'm gonna try to catch up now.
00:38:03.119 --> 00:38:08.079
But but it's um it's just part of who I am now.
00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:11.039
I I catalog in a I use an app called ReadWise.
00:38:11.119 --> 00:38:17.039
So everything I highlight and underline goes into this app and it catalogs all my insights from all the books I've ever read.
00:38:17.360 --> 00:38:24.480
Jeff Simmons, the CEO of Alanco, founded Edge Mentoring, uh, another friend and mentor of mine.
00:38:24.559 --> 00:38:27.280
I at some point in time he talked about reading 60 books a year.
00:38:27.360 --> 00:38:31.199
And so that's forever been a CEO of 60, has been my pursuit.
00:38:31.280 --> 00:38:34.000
I don't always get there, but it's always the target.
00:38:34.159 --> 00:38:35.760
Can I read 60 books every year?
00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:37.679
Catalog the insights.
00:38:37.840 --> 00:38:39.599
Um and somebody challenged me years ago.
00:38:39.679 --> 00:38:44.960
They're like, why don't you just read like one book or two and just like own the content, implement everything?
00:38:45.039 --> 00:38:57.360
And I'm like, well, I think what's really unique, and I can't articulate it well, but there's something that happens where all these things coalesce and kind of swirl around in my head, and they'll they'll come to light when I need them.
00:38:57.440 --> 00:38:59.599
It's much like I think memorizing scripture, right?
00:38:59.679 --> 00:39:08.639
You put these things on your mind and your heart, and there is times when, oh, there was that book and that insight and this this question thing that Ben just asked.
00:39:08.800 --> 00:39:12.079
Like it's just interesting to me how all that sort of coalesces.
00:39:12.400 --> 00:39:19.199
I wish I could say that's the vision I had when I started trying to read 60 books a year, but it's just sort of happened that way.
00:39:19.840 --> 00:39:29.760
Um, and the discipline part of your question, we had twins 10 years ago, and I was like, there's a lot of stuff I need to get done.
00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:36.559
So I'm either not gonna get a lot of it done or I'm gonna have to become, you know, mildly disciplined and rigid.
00:39:36.719 --> 00:39:45.840
And um, that starts with, you know, you know, everybody's got a different approach, but for me, my morning routine is pretty sacred.
00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:47.199
I'm running out of time.
00:39:47.280 --> 00:39:50.719
I feel like I'm gonna have to get up really early to get everything in.
00:39:50.800 --> 00:39:56.639
But you know, look, I I wake up early, you know, I drink coffee, do devotions, do a little reading.
00:39:57.280 --> 00:39:58.880
I get a movement in of some sort.
00:39:58.960 --> 00:40:06.719
Every Friday I run with my neighbor, like um get a sweat in, get cleaned up, and then try to help get the girls to school, maybe take them.
00:40:06.800 --> 00:40:10.000
But like that that morning thing um is pretty rigid.
00:40:10.079 --> 00:40:14.079
I've got this obnoxious unhealthy obsession with my smartwatch.
00:40:14.159 --> 00:40:18.800
Like I've worked out 1,500 days in a row, and so I like have to do it every day.
00:40:18.960 --> 00:40:25.840
There's some unhealthy balances here of discipline that probably a different episode for a different day.
00:40:26.719 --> 00:40:29.119
So, what time do you wake up in the morning?
00:40:29.440 --> 00:40:30.320
4 50.
00:40:30.400 --> 00:40:44.320
And my wife, who is not a morning person, she's like, I I just don't understand how and why the either you get up before the alarm, and the alarm goes off and you get up and you go, and you you just do.
00:40:44.480 --> 00:40:51.760
She's like, I'm thinking, she's gonna be mad at here for like maybe it's snooze or two, or just kind of lay there and kind of get your thoughts together.
00:40:51.920 --> 00:40:55.119
I know if I do that, I'm not getting up, so it's get up and go.
00:40:56.000 --> 00:41:00.400
Hey, and you can't have that alarm going off like three times when at 4 50 in the morning, right?
00:41:00.639 --> 00:41:07.280
Yeah, for if for no other reason that if I let that thing roll and she hears it, I'm gonna I'm gonna catch uh catch a lot of heat.
00:41:07.440 --> 00:41:09.599
But uh but yeah, I get up and get going.
00:41:09.679 --> 00:41:15.440
But I was just joking with with Matt, our the president at Renobia within our portfolio, Matt Rolson.
00:41:15.760 --> 00:41:18.079
It's like I have to get up at like 2 or 3 a.m.
00:41:18.239 --> 00:41:19.360
to get all the stuff in you want to do.
00:41:19.440 --> 00:41:22.159
You want to cold plunge, you want to do the sauna, you want to do all these things.
00:41:22.239 --> 00:41:24.960
It's like at some point it's not viable.
00:41:25.119 --> 00:41:28.159
But uh so you probably go to bed early then too.
00:41:28.400 --> 00:41:32.000
Yeah, I'm not saying what time I go to bed early, but uh it is early.
00:41:32.079 --> 00:41:32.480
Yes.
00:41:34.320 --> 00:41:46.480
Yeah, well, I think it's good to say out loud because you know, some people think leaders who have discipline that do that sort of thing are like you know, staying up till midnight and getting up at 4 50.
00:41:46.559 --> 00:41:50.960
It's like actually leaders build their schedule for what works for them.
00:41:51.199 --> 00:42:03.440
And usually, unless you're like an unusual creature like Trump who gets four hours of sleep, like you still need to get seven hours of sleep or whatever it is to make sure that you're doing the thing.
00:42:03.599 --> 00:42:04.880
So I think you just give you a lot of people.
00:42:04.960 --> 00:42:06.079
I think that's like a missed number.
00:42:06.559 --> 00:42:17.840
Yeah, I felt like forever it's like, and I I love a lot of Gary B's content, but like Gary B is like he sleeps for an hour a night, and I'm like, man, I want to be that, and I've tried some of that, and I am worthless.
00:42:18.239 --> 00:42:26.880
I need seven or eight hours, and that's just that's just how I'm made, and it works for me, it works for our family, and I've just had to grow comfortable.
00:42:27.199 --> 00:42:28.960
But that's that's Marcus's recipe.
00:42:29.039 --> 00:42:30.639
We've all got our own recipe.
00:42:30.719 --> 00:42:34.480
There's some folks and entrepreneurs that I know they they flip the other way, right?
00:42:34.559 --> 00:42:39.599
They're they're working late into the evening, and that sweet spot for them is the the 10:30 to 1 a.m.
00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:40.320
Yep.
00:42:40.559 --> 00:42:43.280
I I am worthless 10:30 to 1 a.m.
00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:45.840
You don't see 10 30 to 1 a.m.
00:42:46.159 --> 00:42:47.199
Yes, not on purpose.
00:42:47.599 --> 00:42:52.960
Yeah, unless somebody's walking into my room because they can't sleep and they're having a nightmare of one of the 10-year-olds.
00:42:54.320 --> 00:43:05.440
What uh when you think about your running a business and your work ethic, um, obviously you mentioned that you have twin daughters, one A and one B.
00:43:05.920 --> 00:43:10.960
Um what do you hope that they catch from watching dad?
00:43:15.519 --> 00:43:19.679
Yeah, man, that's uh that's a great question, Ben.
00:43:21.199 --> 00:43:22.480
Write that one down on my list.
00:43:22.800 --> 00:43:26.880
Um it's funny, I don't know why I jumped to things.
00:43:26.960 --> 00:43:36.400
I hope they don't catch, but what I what I hope they catch is you know the the adoration, the respect, and the care I have for their mother.
00:43:36.639 --> 00:43:40.159
I pray for their husbands, they're 10.
00:43:40.400 --> 00:43:43.280
We got a we got a little flavor of some boy craziness going on.
00:43:43.360 --> 00:43:58.320
Um I'm not ready for that, but I hope I hope they see that and they don't tolerate anything other than a young gentleman opening the door for them and and you know pulling out the chair, paying for the meal, like some of the chivalry things.
00:43:58.480 --> 00:43:59.760
I hope they see that and they don't.
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:02.000
Tolerate anything less than that.
00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:10.000
I hope they can remember and appreciate the relationship that we have.
00:44:10.719 --> 00:44:12.320
Twins is an interesting thing.
00:44:12.480 --> 00:44:18.400
Like they're constantly forever the twins, but you know, it's just because they're born at the same time.
00:44:18.480 --> 00:44:20.159
They're two very different people.
00:44:20.559 --> 00:44:22.800
They're fraternal, not identical twins.
00:44:22.880 --> 00:44:24.239
Um Naomi and Kai.
00:44:24.480 --> 00:44:26.559
But we do something.
00:44:26.800 --> 00:44:30.320
I don't know who told me this, but we do something.
00:44:30.400 --> 00:44:34.079
We've done it four years now, every summer, daddy-daughter trip.
00:44:34.159 --> 00:44:36.079
And they get to pick somewhere we go.
00:44:36.239 --> 00:44:37.920
And we go for 48 hours.
00:44:38.000 --> 00:44:40.079
It's I wanted to teach them how to travel.
00:44:40.159 --> 00:44:41.360
And so we we fly somewhere.
00:44:41.440 --> 00:44:44.960
It's a I mean, it's literally a really quick and cheap direct flight.
00:44:45.199 --> 00:44:46.400
Stay in a hotel.
00:44:46.639 --> 00:44:49.440
We go out, have some meals, and explore a new town.
00:44:49.599 --> 00:44:55.199
Then we come home and then we upload all the pictures and we get it printed in one of those shutterfly book things.
00:44:55.360 --> 00:44:57.199
And so they're collecting these books.
00:44:57.360 --> 00:45:08.079
And so that they'll have this, I hope, this keepsake of all these daddy-daughter trips of how I was busy and we were growing a company and all these things, but also dad made time for things like that.
00:45:08.239 --> 00:45:12.960
Um, there's a couple artifacts I hope that mean a lot to them, things like that.
00:45:13.039 --> 00:45:18.480
I I write them letters every couple weeks in a journal that they'll have when when I'm gone.
00:45:18.559 --> 00:45:26.400
It's just letters of leadership lessons and faith lessons and things I'm thinking about as I watch them grow up.
00:45:26.639 --> 00:45:27.920
Um, I don't know.
00:45:28.000 --> 00:45:30.079
There's there's there's a lot we're trying to do.
00:45:30.159 --> 00:45:32.639
You know, it's the joy of parents, as you guys know.
00:45:32.880 --> 00:45:40.400
We may never or really late find out if any of it sticks or works, but um I my mom raised us.
00:45:40.559 --> 00:45:43.039
My my dad was great.
00:45:43.280 --> 00:45:51.519
Um, but my mom raised us and she was she was a special woman, so I'm I'm trying to call a lot of plays she called.
00:45:51.920 --> 00:45:52.400
Yeah.
00:45:52.639 --> 00:45:54.320
Is uh you mentioned letters.
00:45:54.559 --> 00:45:58.159
Is that in that sacred time that you block out?
00:45:58.239 --> 00:46:02.239
You mention devotion and praying and reading and that sort of thing.
00:46:02.480 --> 00:46:07.599
Is that when you have those those quiet moments to be able to reflect and write those letters?
00:46:07.679 --> 00:46:10.800
And is that is it does it show up in that morning routine?
00:46:11.119 --> 00:46:12.320
Yeah, yeah, it will.
00:46:12.400 --> 00:46:19.039
Uh or it'll show up when there's when I feel like there's something I want to get pen to paper to try to capture the moment.
00:46:19.599 --> 00:46:27.360
Um, but yeah, oftentimes it's the Saturday or the Sunday, early morning, quiet time that they're they're getting a letter.
00:46:27.760 --> 00:46:29.119
That's awesome.
00:46:29.679 --> 00:46:33.599
Hey, Marcus, uh, we're getting to the end of the episode, and this has been awesome.
00:46:33.679 --> 00:46:34.960
It's gone super fast.
00:46:35.440 --> 00:46:40.800
Um, but we close our episodes by asking our guests two questions.
00:46:41.039 --> 00:46:43.360
Um, and I'll fire away at the first one.
00:46:43.440 --> 00:46:47.360
Um, but what is a risk that you have taken that has changed your life?
00:46:52.639 --> 00:47:05.599
The easy answer would be you know, we've talked a lot about you know leaving a very comfortable, exciting software job with a great company and going into you know making squares and rectangles.
00:47:05.760 --> 00:47:07.519
Um that was a real risk.
00:47:08.320 --> 00:47:23.039
But if I if I step back and think about I'm 43, like the whole 43 years, you know, something I think it's very popular now, and I don't mean that disparagingly, but something that many people don't know is I'm I'm 16 years sober.
00:47:23.199 --> 00:47:42.400
Uh, and I had to make a courageous decision 16 years ago, like zero alcohol ever again, cut friends out, um, had to think about a whole new social circle, a whole new rhythm, a whole new habit structure.
00:47:42.719 --> 00:47:44.000
Um, and that was hard.
00:47:44.079 --> 00:47:46.320
So that that's that was a big risk.
00:47:46.559 --> 00:47:50.719
Um the fruit is incomprehensible.
00:47:50.800 --> 00:47:59.679
Like it's, you know, for many reasons, been the right thing, but it's a unique um that was a unique decision many years ago that is uh had some had some risk.
00:47:59.760 --> 00:48:01.679
That was hard to do as a young guy.
00:48:02.320 --> 00:48:02.880
For sure.
00:48:03.119 --> 00:48:04.960
Marcus, second and last question.
00:48:05.199 --> 00:48:06.880
What do you have the resolve?
00:48:06.960 --> 00:48:11.199
What is left yet unfinished that you have the resolve to complete?
00:48:12.639 --> 00:48:17.280
I think that's the the role of a of a father with you know, twin girls that are 10.
00:48:17.440 --> 00:48:21.599
I joke about the boy Crazy, but there's a lot of there's a lot of life here.
00:48:21.760 --> 00:48:27.760
You know, I've got them, we were talking before we hit record, uh, you know, I'm we're empty nest in theory at 51.
00:48:27.920 --> 00:48:31.360
Um, I got eight years, I got eight summers left.
00:48:31.760 --> 00:48:48.960
I think, Lord willing, um my wife and I, Lindsay, will have the resolve to parent them well, form them in the image of Christ, but just to love them and and and try to impress upon them a few important things before they head out um on their own.
00:48:50.079 --> 00:48:51.440
That's beautiful.
00:48:51.760 --> 00:48:53.920
Marcus, appreciate your friendship.
00:48:54.159 --> 00:48:59.679
Thanks for uh joining us today on another episode of Risk and Resolve.
00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:01.840
Catch you guys next time.
00:49:02.239 --> 00:49:03.440
Thanks, guys.
00:49:03.679 --> 00:49:06.559
Thanks for tuning in to Risk and Resolve.
00:49:06.800 --> 00:49:08.320
See you next time.