[PREVIEW] Teal Swan, Warren Jeffs, and the Gender Role Anxieties of Cults

Content warning: In this podcast, we discuss some very difficult topics — notably, suicide/suicidal ideation, sexual assault and child sexual abuse. Please listen with care.

On Friday, the Supreme Court released its opinion on Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization. In it, the court overturned Roe v. Wade, denying the existence of a constitutional right to an abortion. The majority opinion, authored by Justice Samuel Alito, was substantially unchanged from the draft opinion leaked last month, so there was little surprise as to the outcome and the reasoning. But this time, it’s real. Across the country, state trigger laws went into effect to outlaw abortion in all or most cases, and pre-Roe laws criminalizing the procedure became relevant once again. Many clinics were forced to immediately stop providing abortions, sending distraught patients home from the waiting room mere minutes before their scheduled appointments.

This is not what we talked about on the podcast this week. We had already put the episode to bed when the opinion came down, and we both spent Friday in a haze. (In Emma’s case, the haze included writing an important and clear-eyed essay for MSNBC about whether an abortion ban violates the religious practice of Jewish people.)

But this episode ended up being, unintentionally, rather apt. Last week, we watched the Netflix docuseries “Keep Sweet: Pray & Obey,” about the FLDS (an extreme Mormon sect) and the depravities inflicted by its current leader, Warren Jeffs. We also watched “The Deep End,” a Hulu docuseries about the controversial spiritual guru Teal Swan and the dramas of her devoted inner circle. And the control and physical violation of women — and the reaction against that control and violation — are, respectively, central to those two groups.

The FLDS — especially under Warren Jeffs, a particularly cruel and power-hungry leader, but also more generally — treats women and children as forms of wealth for high-status men. To be awarded more wives is to reach a higher status in heaven; to have more children is to have more to offer the community in free, unregulated labor and in wives to offer other men. Women and girls in the FLDS were married off young — increasingly, under Warren, long before they reached legal age — and were expected to bear as many children as possible.

Teal Swan, a YouTube-popular spiritual influencer, is diametrically opposed to the FLDS in most ways. She proclaims to be an all-knowing, supreme female leader, and she espouses women’s freedom and equality; she’s also been public about having suffered serious sexual abuse at the hands of a family friend, and in her work, she looks to heal the trauma left behind by this kind of abuse. Her schtick tends toward the girlboss, in true millennial form, and she masterfully deploys feminist rhetoric to deflect criticism of her methods (which include practices that could implant false memories of trauma in the minds of her followers).

In this episode, we discuss the appeal of dangerous spiritual groups like these, the horrors of Warren Jeffs’ FLDS, the insidious girl-power faux therapy of Teal Swan, and the anxieties about gender roles and hierarchies that emerge in each.

Thank you for listening!

And a quick reminder: we’re having a live show with Moment House on Sunday, July 10! We’ll be recapping the premiere episode of Kaitlyn and Britt’s (briefly) two-Bachelorette season. Plus, we’ll be using the tipping function on Moment House to raise money for The Brigid Alliance, a fantastic organization that provides people with the money and support they need to travel for abortion care.

We’ve been watching…

“The Summer I Turned Pretty” on Prime, based on the first book in author Jenny Han’s first trilogy, which she wrote before “To All The Boys I Loved Before.” It is sweet and sad and joyous, and a beautiful meditation on both coming of age and the longevity of female friendships. -Emma

Oh, me too! Coincidence or… pod incoming? -Claire

We’ve been listening to…

I binged my way through both seasons of the “Snapped” podcast by Lucy Taylor, which I discovered by way of the “A Little Bit Culty” pod. The first season is about her personal (hellish) experience with elite Greek life, and the second season compellingly builds a wider case for the fact that sororities remain, essentially, white supremacist cultic structures. Highly recommend. -Emma

I relistened to “The Gateway,” Gizmodo’s podcast on Teal Swan, hosted and reported by Jennings Brown, before taping this episode. Then I got curious about his new podcast, “Revelations,” in which he infiltrates the Fellowship of Friends cult. The group’s founder, Robert Burton, teaches that God is expressed and sought through classical beauty, including opera, the Western literary canon, and fine wine. Being in the FOF sounds like an unusually luxurious experience for a cult. Orchestral performances and elegant dinners served by tuxedoed waitstaff are a quotidian part of life in the community. Also, allegedly, a horrifying pattern of sexual predation on male followers. -Claire

We’ve been reading…

I’ve been re-reading some books for a project that’s in its early stages, including “Big Friendship,” “Bachelor Nation” and “Trick Mirror.” -Emma

I just started the sequel to Elif Batuman’s “The Idiot,” after an indulgent reread of her 2017 novel. “Either/Or” picks up right where “Either/Or” left off, but there’s a definite shift in attitude toward the enigmatic love interest Ivan — and a new bent in our heroine Selin’s intellectual/romantic proclivities. Rather than trying to understand love through linguistics, she’s taken up an English major, and with it, an interest in the mistreated and malcontent women of the literary canon. So, a book written for 20-year-old me! What a gift. -Claire

We’ve been buying…

My absolute favorite swimwear brand, Marysia, is having a big sale on their Resort 2022 line. Their stuff is pricey, but so flattering. (I am obsessed with scalloping, their high-waisted bikinis, and all of their gorgeous, non-granny-feeling one pieces!) I never shop their line full price because I simply can’t afford it, so I jump on it when theses suits go on sale. I grabbed the Chesapeake bikini top and bottom, as well as the East River top in fern and the matching bottoms. (I was also tempted by this gorgeous Garden Maillot.) -Emma

So many iced coffees, even though I have a coffeemaker at home. Ah, summer!

Plus: breezy long summer shorts from Tradlands. (I sized down for a slightly less billowy look, but both ways are mom schlub perfection to me.) -Claire