1
00:00:01,830 --> 00:00:05,160
Announcer: This
is a Getty Podcast
2
00:00:05,653 --> 00:00:07,543
Jaime Roque: Hey, I'm
Jaime, host of ReCurrent,
3
00:00:07,543 --> 00:00:08,743
a Getty podcast.
4
00:00:09,073 --> 00:00:11,893
On ReCurrent I explore the
hidden cultural stories
5
00:00:11,893 --> 00:00:14,713
all around us, the stories
that live in photographs,
6
00:00:14,713 --> 00:00:16,663
archives, and everyday places.
7
00:00:17,113 --> 00:00:20,653
Season two is out now with
all six episodes available,
8
00:00:20,953 --> 00:00:22,958
and I wanted to share an
episode with you here today.
9
00:00:23,938 --> 00:00:27,298
On this episode, Backlot and
Barrio, I spent time with
10
00:00:27,298 --> 00:00:30,658
photographer George Rodriguez,
whose camera captured two
11
00:00:30,658 --> 00:00:34,518
sides of Los Angeles—Hollywood
backlots and Los Angeles’
12
00:00:34,698 --> 00:00:38,728
East Side—documenting celebrity
culture while staying rooted
13
00:00:38,728 --> 00:00:40,708
in community and resistance.
14
00:00:41,308 --> 00:00:44,158
If you'd like to hear the rest
of the season and explore more
15
00:00:44,158 --> 00:00:47,518
stories like this, you can find
ReCurrent wherever you listen to
16
00:00:47,528 --> 00:00:52,068
podcasts or at getty dot edu
slash podcasts slash recurrent.
17
00:00:55,130 --> 00:01:02,782
[Voices yelling over
sirens, photos snapping.
18
00:01:02,782 --> 00:01:05,619
Voice over radio says
“All units respond”]
19
00:01:05,619 --> 00:01:06,835
[Brass music begins]
20
00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:09,370
George Rodriguez: You could
be somewhere like in East LA
21
00:01:09,710 --> 00:01:13,740
at a school walkout and then
you come back and in a half
22
00:01:13,740 --> 00:01:17,110
an hour, now you’re working
on Hollywood magazines.
23
00:01:18,660 --> 00:01:20,640
They’re not aware of the
other situation, they’re
24
00:01:20,730 --> 00:01:27,970
totally different worlds.
25
00:01:31,420 --> 00:01:33,900
Roque: That’s photographer
George Rodriguez, the most
26
00:01:33,930 --> 00:01:37,440
influential Southern California
photographer you likely
27
00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:38,960
haven’t heard of until now.
28
00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:44,780
He is talking about his
experience of shooting Hollywood
29
00:01:44,780 --> 00:01:48,070
on one role of film and the
Latino experience on the next.
30
00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:55,120
Hello, my name is Jaime
and welcome to ReCurrent.
31
00:01:58,420 --> 00:02:01,360
If you haven’t heard of
George Rodriguez, that’s okay.
32
00:02:01,790 --> 00:02:03,890
Before this story,
I hadn’t either.
33
00:02:06,590 --> 00:02:10,280
Now, I want you to imagine
this—I’m at lunch with Idurre
34
00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:13,190
Alonso, the head of Modern and
Contemporary Art at the Getty.
35
00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:15,680
We’re talking about
possible topics for
36
00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:16,630
ReCurrent’s new season.
37
00:02:16,630 --> 00:02:20,970
And in between bites she asks,
“You know George Rodriguez?” My
38
00:02:20,970 --> 00:02:24,310
first thought was, “Yeah, I know
a couple George Rodriguez’, but
39
00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:27,770
probably not the one you are
talking about.” So, I say: “No.”
40
00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:33,080
And then boom—crash course: the
East LA walkouts, the Chicano
41
00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:36,860
Moratorium, farmworkers marching
with César Chávez and the UFW…
42
00:02:37,300 --> 00:02:41,340
then a hard cut to Hollywood—red
carpets, studio lots, and
43
00:02:41,350 --> 00:02:44,410
faces you might know and
recognize like Michael Jackson,
44
00:02:44,570 --> 00:02:48,260
N.W.A., Janis Joplin, Jimi
Hendrix, even Marilyn Monroe.
45
00:02:48,260 --> 00:02:49,100
And I was hooked
and I needed to know
46
00:02:52,110 --> 00:02:52,470
more.
47
00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:54,765
[Percussion music begins]
48
00:02:55,840 --> 00:03:00,520
Rodriguez: My name is George
Rodríguez and I was born here in
49
00:03:00,710 --> 00:03:02,750
LA, actually in South Central.
50
00:03:02,990 --> 00:03:06,290
Roque: George is born in
1937 and not long after
51
00:03:06,290 --> 00:03:09,110
that, his dad opens a shoe
repair shop on Skid Row.
52
00:03:09,590 --> 00:03:11,950
The shop is downstairs and
the family in the back.
53
00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:15,310
By the late ’40s, around
twelve, George is back
54
00:03:15,310 --> 00:03:16,475
in South Central LA.
55
00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:18,960
While attending Fremont
High, George is in
56
00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:20,020
need of an elective.
57
00:03:20,220 --> 00:03:22,470
A friend suggests a
photography course because
58
00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:23,640
he heard it was easy.
59
00:03:23,940 --> 00:03:26,690
And it turns out, George
loves it and begins putting
60
00:03:26,690 --> 00:03:30,230
in hours of practice, getting
as much experience as he can.
61
00:03:30,590 --> 00:03:34,980
Then, one small favor for a
friend changes everything.
62
00:03:35,180 --> 00:03:37,030
Rodriguez: What happened
exactly was a friend of
63
00:03:37,030 --> 00:03:40,760
mine that I was in school
with, he needed a ride to
64
00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:42,670
Hollywood so I gave him a ride.
65
00:03:42,700 --> 00:03:47,990
I had luckily parked in
front of a photo studio and
66
00:03:47,990 --> 00:03:50,480
I saw this guy setting up
to take some photographs.
67
00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:55,600
I went in and talked to him
and that man was Sid Avery.
68
00:04:00,980 --> 00:04:03,370
Roque: Sid Avery was one of
Hollywood’s go-to photographers
69
00:04:03,370 --> 00:04:07,570
in the 1950s and ’60s—famous
for candid, off-set portraits
70
00:04:07,570 --> 00:04:10,030
and photo essays that ran
in magazines that were on
71
00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:12,460
nearly everyone’s coffee
table across the country.
72
00:04:13,050 --> 00:04:16,340
Magazines like LIFE,
Look, Collier’s, and The
73
00:04:16,340 --> 00:04:17,490
Saturday Evening Post.
74
00:04:18,010 --> 00:04:20,390
His subjects spanned
Audrey Hepburn, James
75
00:04:20,390 --> 00:04:23,500
Dean, Humphrey Bogart,
Elizabeth Taylor, and more.
76
00:04:23,540 --> 00:04:26,340
Rodriguez: Coincidentally
he was starting a photo lab
77
00:04:26,340 --> 00:04:30,130
so, I went and applied to
work and I got a job there
78
00:04:30,930 --> 00:04:32,670
working in the Hollywood area.
79
00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:35,130
Roque: Famous Hollywood
names start to stack up
80
00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:36,330
as the work increases.
81
00:04:36,850 --> 00:04:40,450
Rodriguez: I guess he liked
me so he would have me assist
82
00:04:40,450 --> 00:04:41,540
him on shoots he would do.
83
00:04:41,540 --> 00:04:44,620
And he, like I say, we went
to Lucille Ball’s house
84
00:04:44,620 --> 00:04:49,410
and I was only about 18
years old and I loved it.
85
00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:52,890
But then after a while you know
you take it for granted, having
86
00:04:52,890 --> 00:04:57,060
conversations with Michael
Jackson and Jim Morrison.
87
00:04:57,090 --> 00:05:00,300
Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin,
you know, you don't think
88
00:05:00,300 --> 00:05:05,880
about it, until later do you
realize how special that is.
89
00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:08,410
Roque: The origin story’s
set—a kid from South
90
00:05:08,410 --> 00:05:11,940
Central, trained at Fremont,
hustling in labs and on sets.
91
00:05:12,490 --> 00:05:14,440
But things are about
to change for him.
92
00:05:14,650 --> 00:05:17,680
He doesn’t know it yet but the
frame is starting to shift.
93
00:05:17,990 --> 00:05:20,610
Rodriguez: I remember when
I worked at Chris Lawford
94
00:05:20,620 --> 00:05:24,570
publishing company, if I knew
things were going on I would
95
00:05:24,570 --> 00:05:28,070
leave at lunchtime and go to
East LA and shoot the stuff.
96
00:05:32,900 --> 00:05:33,605
[Trumpet music begins]
97
00:05:34,180 --> 00:05:35,820
Roque: March of 1968.
98
00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,250
George is now working at the
photo lab at Columbia pictures,
99
00:05:39,630 --> 00:05:42,310
which publishes celebrity
pics like Frank Sinatra
100
00:05:42,310 --> 00:05:45,290
and Warren Beatty and movie
premiers like Bye Bye Birdie
101
00:05:45,310 --> 00:05:46,710
and Breakfast at Tiffany’s.
102
00:05:47,210 --> 00:05:50,260
But across town, students
from Wilson, Garfield,
103
00:05:50,450 --> 00:05:53,480
Lincoln, Roosevelt, and
Belmont High Schools walk out.
104
00:05:55,010 --> 00:05:55,240
[Fast-paced guitar music]
105
00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,430
They are protesting
overcrowded schools, scarce
106
00:06:01,430 --> 00:06:04,320
resources, and bias against
Mexican American students.
107
00:06:05,100 --> 00:06:08,350
It became a defining action
of the Chicano Movement—which
108
00:06:08,350 --> 00:06:11,510
was a civil-rights wave
led by Mexican Americans to
109
00:06:11,510 --> 00:06:14,340
win better schools, labor
rights, representation, and
110
00:06:14,450 --> 00:06:15,870
control over their own story.
111
00:06:16,780 --> 00:06:18,990
Rodriguez: You could be
somewhere like in East LA
112
00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:25,960
at a school walkout and it’s
immersed in 100 percent Chicano
113
00:06:25,970 --> 00:06:31,190
Mexican environment and then
you come back and in a half
114
00:06:31,210 --> 00:06:34,920
an hour, now you’re working
on Hollywood magazines and
115
00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:39,070
they’re not aware of the other
situation and they really don’t
116
00:06:39,070 --> 00:06:43,330
care and they don’t get it.
117
00:06:43,790 --> 00:06:43,920
[Trumpet music]
118
00:06:44,840 --> 00:06:47,080
Roque: Speaking to George,
something clicks for me:
119
00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,230
culture is made and kept
by the people who show up.
120
00:06:51,570 --> 00:06:54,680
George did—and saved what
might’ve been forgotten.
121
00:06:55,340 --> 00:06:58,880
He was there, documenting
the movement, yes, and also
122
00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:01,120
participating by documenting it.
123
00:07:01,730 --> 00:07:04,260
Researching this episode,
I poured through the 2018
124
00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:08,130
monograph “Double Vision”, which
catalogued George’s career.
125
00:07:08,690 --> 00:07:11,080
I was surprised to find
picture after picture that
126
00:07:11,100 --> 00:07:13,900
I recognized—from my old
Chicano Studies textbooks.
127
00:07:14,380 --> 00:07:17,090
Photographs of a requiem
procession for Robert F.
128
00:07:17,090 --> 00:07:19,760
Kennedy the day after he
died that ran down Brooklyn
129
00:07:19,780 --> 00:07:21,530
Ave. to East LA College.
130
00:07:21,980 --> 00:07:24,517
Robert Kennedy was a big
supporter of César Chávez and
131
00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:28,780
the United Farm Workers, or
UFW, so his death was a big
132
00:07:28,790 --> 00:07:30,220
deal for Mexican Americans.
133
00:07:30,610 --> 00:07:33,110
I find photographs of the
Chicano Moratorium—the
134
00:07:33,110 --> 00:07:36,100
anti–Vietnam War protests
led by Mexican Americans.
135
00:07:36,390 --> 00:07:39,340
And photographs of the United
Farm Workers organization, in
136
00:07:39,340 --> 00:07:42,650
Delano, in the Central Valley:
the boycotts, hunger strikes,
137
00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:45,460
and the UFW’s continuous
organizing alongside César
138
00:07:47,490 --> 00:07:47,767
Chávez and Dolores Huerta.
139
00:07:47,767 --> 00:07:50,100
Huerta would go on to say
George’s photos helped bring
140
00:07:50,130 --> 00:07:53,120
people to the cause, and that
he understood it because he
141
00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:54,500
was part of the community.
142
00:07:54,820 --> 00:07:57,870
Rodriguez: Yeah, I realize now
that you know that what I lived
143
00:07:57,870 --> 00:08:00,610
through is actually history.
144
00:08:00,730 --> 00:08:03,020
Roque: He took as many shots
as he could out of fear
145
00:08:03,020 --> 00:08:04,410
that nobody else would.
146
00:08:04,930 --> 00:08:07,480
And he did so with the
same care, attention,
147
00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:10,540
and artistry he used when
taking celebrity portraits.
148
00:08:11,150 --> 00:08:11,920
The originals?
149
00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:14,650
Many are now at the
Getty Research Institute.
150
00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:23,540
[Elevator moves and opens.
151
00:08:23,540 --> 00:08:23,950
Jaime greets someone]
152
00:08:23,950 --> 00:08:25,940
I’m at the Getty
Research Institute with
153
00:08:25,950 --> 00:08:28,020
curator Idurre Alonso.
154
00:08:28,020 --> 00:08:30,990
We’re going through
George Rodríguez’s photos.
155
00:08:31,580 --> 00:08:35,670
We face 30 boxes full of decades
worth of George’s contact
156
00:08:35,670 --> 00:08:37,580
sheets, negatives, and images.
157
00:08:37,580 --> 00:08:39,930
[In background] And then we can
go over all this afterwards…
158
00:08:39,970 --> 00:08:42,430
You can see the craft
in each of his photos.
159
00:08:43,060 --> 00:08:46,050
And that’s part of why
these pictures live here—not
160
00:08:46,050 --> 00:08:48,570
just for what they show,
but how they show it.
161
00:08:49,190 --> 00:08:52,940
Years on sets taught George to
read light fast, to compose in
162
00:08:52,940 --> 00:08:56,180
chaos, to wait for the breath
between action and after.
163
00:08:56,270 --> 00:08:58,730
The same eye that could
flatter a movie star found
164
00:08:58,730 --> 00:09:01,780
the glow on a hand‑painted
sign in a protest and the
165
00:09:01,780 --> 00:09:03,270
anger on a marcher’s face.
166
00:09:03,530 --> 00:09:06,700
He brought studio craft to
the sidewalk—and it shows.
167
00:09:07,060 --> 00:09:10,400
The frames are beautiful,
human, precise.
168
00:09:10,980 --> 00:09:13,830
Idurre Alonso: For me, it was
like, everything as a whole.
169
00:09:14,090 --> 00:09:16,310
I think he just wanted
to document what was
170
00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:17,800
happening for him.
171
00:09:17,970 --> 00:09:21,510
Or maybe thinking on the
future, but at the time
172
00:09:21,510 --> 00:09:22,570
it was just for him.
173
00:09:23,250 --> 00:09:26,250
Roque: In one photo, white
helmeted police stand over
174
00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:28,820
a teen protestor beaten
with batons in East LA.
175
00:09:29,650 --> 00:09:32,190
Another shows a sign that
says, “Roosevelt Chicanos
176
00:09:32,190 --> 00:09:35,780
Demand Justice.” And in
another, a march led by
177
00:09:35,780 --> 00:09:37,840
Chicano activists Brown Berets.
178
00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:41,340
Alonso: Also the depiction of
East LA and Pico Rivera is, this
179
00:09:41,340 --> 00:09:43,500
is the 60s, this is the 70s.
180
00:09:43,660 --> 00:09:47,030
And, and even also these
depictions of kids and
181
00:09:47,170 --> 00:09:48,620
the people in East LA.
182
00:09:48,620 --> 00:09:52,110
In the case of George Rodriguez,
he’s Mexican American and he’s
183
00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:57,250
actually the first Chicano
artist to enter the collection.
184
00:09:57,800 --> 00:09:58,390
Roque: Wow.
185
00:09:58,480 --> 00:09:58,660
That’s powerful.
186
00:10:00,190 --> 00:10:01,370
Alonso: Very powerful, yeah.
187
00:10:02,610 --> 00:10:04,800
Roque: Hearing
“first” lands hard.
188
00:10:05,430 --> 00:10:05,990
Really?
189
00:10:06,220 --> 00:10:07,380
the first one?
190
00:10:07,900 --> 00:10:09,690
And also: finally.
191
00:10:10,470 --> 00:10:13,350
It’s powerful to stand with
Getty’s first Chicano archive.
192
00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,290
In big institutions, it
can be hard to find your
193
00:10:16,290 --> 00:10:17,340
own heritage reflected.
194
00:10:17,790 --> 00:10:20,880
I work here, and even for
me it’s not always obvious
195
00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:22,140
where my culture fits.
196
00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:24,510
But I find resonance
in these boxes.
197
00:10:26,530 --> 00:10:29,140
I ask Idurre why
George’s archive is here.
198
00:10:30,810 --> 00:10:34,220
Alonso: You would encounter in
this archive something that is
199
00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:36,700
not usually found in archives.
200
00:10:36,710 --> 00:10:40,290
So usually when you see
photographs of LA in this
201
00:10:40,310 --> 00:10:42,470
time period, what you
see is the west side.
202
00:10:42,630 --> 00:10:43,820
You don’t see the east.
203
00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:45,400
Two different universes.
204
00:10:45,910 --> 00:10:48,770
Roque: In the archival boxes,
it isn’t just celebrities
205
00:10:48,770 --> 00:10:51,610
and protests—there are
records of daily life.
206
00:10:51,860 --> 00:10:54,370
Kids after school,
storefronts on a Sunday,
207
00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:55,760
neighbors on the block.
208
00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:59,250
As George puts it, you’re
photographing the politics,
209
00:10:59,250 --> 00:11:02,940
sure, but behind the politics,
people live full lives.
210
00:11:03,250 --> 00:11:06,040
Rodriguez: The people, you
know, they don’t realize
211
00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:08,560
that their heroes are just
trying to make a living.
212
00:11:09,090 --> 00:11:12,990
That’s just like me, you know,
I was taking pictures, some of
213
00:11:12,990 --> 00:11:16,720
this stuff was very powerful,
and that’s what I… I knew that
214
00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:20,230
I had to do it because I thought
nobody else was doing it.
215
00:11:20,990 --> 00:11:24,800
Roque: Culture—images,
stories, memory—is safeguarded
216
00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:28,260
by people long before an
institution gets involved.
217
00:11:28,370 --> 00:11:30,650
George’s approach to
documenting and capturing
218
00:11:30,650 --> 00:11:33,600
his culture and community
is vital and alive today.
219
00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:33,954
[car driving]
220
00:11:34,130 --> 00:11:36,480
I drive to Santa Ana to
meet photographer and
221
00:11:36,500 --> 00:11:39,430
educator William Camargo
and see the legacy of
222
00:11:39,430 --> 00:11:40,710
George Rodriguez in action.
223
00:11:40,710 --> 00:11:41,365
Hey!
224
00:11:42,020 --> 00:11:42,100
William Camargo: Hey!
225
00:11:42,100 --> 00:11:42,530
How you doing?
226
00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:45,830
[chatter fades]
227
00:11:46,650 --> 00:11:47,740
My name is William Camargo.
228
00:11:47,810 --> 00:11:50,600
I was born in Santana,
but was raised in Anaheim.
229
00:11:50,690 --> 00:11:52,960
My first introduction to
photography was in high school.
230
00:11:54,010 --> 00:11:58,040
I was just actually trying
to get an easy A, and it just
231
00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:00,920
turned out that I enjoyed
photography quite a bit.
232
00:12:01,330 --> 00:12:02,860
Roque: [Over chatter] Already,
I hear echoes of Geroge’s
233
00:12:03,060 --> 00:12:07,020
story—chancing into a career
in pursuit of an easy A. And
234
00:12:07,030 --> 00:12:10,050
there are more similarities:
celebrities by day and
235
00:12:10,050 --> 00:12:11,310
social movements by night.
236
00:12:11,580 --> 00:12:13,550
Camargo: I was doing a lot
of music photography too
237
00:12:13,550 --> 00:12:17,570
and once in a while I was
stringing for a photo agency.
238
00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,230
Like these red carpets
where I would always get
239
00:12:20,230 --> 00:12:22,150
these assignments that are
like the premier of this
240
00:12:22,150 --> 00:12:24,840
movie in the Beverly Hotel
and then the afternoon was
241
00:12:24,860 --> 00:12:28,300
like a protest in downtown.
242
00:12:29,210 --> 00:12:32,000
Roque: But William sees George’s
impact in another project.
243
00:12:32,140 --> 00:12:34,650
Camargo: The book I’m
finishing right now is probably
244
00:12:35,550 --> 00:12:38,420
one of the big influences
from George too, right?
245
00:12:38,910 --> 00:12:40,160
It’s called Origins
in Displacement.
246
00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:42,750
Roque: It’s a portrait
of Anaheim you don’t
247
00:12:42,750 --> 00:12:43,760
see on postcards.
248
00:12:44,430 --> 00:12:46,960
Camargo: A lot of history
was hidden or was not told.
249
00:12:47,020 --> 00:12:50,880
I never really learned
about it until I was reading
250
00:12:50,940 --> 00:12:54,660
all these alternative
newspapers where I first
251
00:12:54,660 --> 00:12:55,800
encountered these archives.
252
00:12:56,390 --> 00:13:00,170
I am just documenting my own
community, right, walking
253
00:13:00,230 --> 00:13:01,860
around, photographing
friends, photographing
254
00:13:01,860 --> 00:13:05,220
family, photographing folks
I was just meeting as well.
255
00:13:05,230 --> 00:13:08,090
You know, people were hitting
me up from Instagram being like,
256
00:13:08,130 --> 00:13:09,710
“Hey, come to my neighborhood.
Like, I'll show you
257
00:13:20,580 --> 00:13:20,610
around.”
258
00:13:20,610 --> 00:13:20,730
[Violin music]
259
00:13:20,730 --> 00:13:23,610
Roque: And the work
continues—William in Anaheim
260
00:13:23,610 --> 00:13:25,210
doing work inspired by George.
261
00:13:25,790 --> 00:13:27,490
And there are now
countless other Chicano
262
00:13:27,490 --> 00:13:29,750
photographers holding up
their corners of the city.
263
00:13:30,750 --> 00:13:34,290
Photographers like Chito,
Banda, Frankie Orozco, Suitcase
264
00:13:34,290 --> 00:13:35,840
Joe, and Estevan Oriol.
265
00:13:36,630 --> 00:13:37,630
We’re in safe hands.
266
00:13:38,140 --> 00:13:41,420
Our culture, our community,
is being recorded by this new
267
00:13:41,420 --> 00:13:42,580
generation of photographers.
268
00:13:43,990 --> 00:13:46,460
In the next few months, George
is preparing to move out of
269
00:13:46,460 --> 00:13:49,660
his downtown studio space,
where he’s been for 25 years.
270
00:13:50,370 --> 00:13:52,150
This is one reason
why his archive is
271
00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:53,470
moving to the GRI now.
272
00:13:54,190 --> 00:13:56,620
But even as George prepares
to hang up his camera,
273
00:13:57,010 --> 00:13:58,340
his work isn’t vanishing.
274
00:13:59,130 --> 00:13:59,990
It’s multiplying.
275
00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:03,410
And this is what makes him one
of the most influential Southern
276
00:14:03,410 --> 00:14:06,250
California photographers,
even if this is the first
277
00:14:06,250 --> 00:14:07,210
you’re hearing of his story.
278
00:14:07,210 --> 00:14:10,640
[Alonso in the background] I
set up things so that we can…
279
00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:11,900
[over background chatter]
Back at Getty, Idurre and
280
00:14:11,900 --> 00:14:15,160
I return to the boxes of
George’s photographs—thinking
281
00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:18,230
about how images move through
hands, families, and time.
282
00:14:19,010 --> 00:14:21,800
They’re being catalogued not so
that they can be sealed off, but
283
00:14:21,860 --> 00:14:23,360
so that they can be findable.
284
00:14:24,060 --> 00:14:27,600
And if we do this right,
they’re returnable—pop-ups
285
00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:31,210
in schools and rec centers,
library showings, neighborhood
286
00:14:31,220 --> 00:14:34,660
talks, and digitized sets
people can search—ways to
287
00:14:34,660 --> 00:14:37,270
access their own history,
their photos, their culture,
288
00:14:37,580 --> 00:14:39,660
their part of LA’s story.
289
00:14:40,230 --> 00:14:41,990
Preservation is step one.
290
00:14:42,300 --> 00:14:43,770
Circulation is step two.
291
00:14:44,170 --> 00:14:46,410
Inspiring the next
generation is three.
292
00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:49,170
Alonso: The photography
department is putting
293
00:14:49,170 --> 00:14:53,153
together a show on Chicano
photographers and George
294
00:14:53,153 --> 00:14:54,540
is gonna be part of it.
295
00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:59,780
So, in my opinion, I would like
to see these photos going back
296
00:15:01,020 --> 00:15:04,950
to East LA, or South LA in many
cases, because there’s a lot of
297
00:15:04,950 --> 00:15:08,850
photographs of the kids in South
LA at different high schools.
298
00:15:08,850 --> 00:15:13,820
And how can you work with the
kids today and show them these
299
00:15:13,820 --> 00:15:17,880
photographs and what happened
and make them think about the
300
00:15:17,910 --> 00:15:21,390
history of what is happening
now or the usage of images
301
00:15:21,870 --> 00:15:26,100
today because I think they’re
very powerful and even though
302
00:15:26,100 --> 00:15:30,370
they’re like 60 years old,
they’re still very relevant
303
00:15:30,370 --> 00:15:33,900
today because many of these
issues were never resolved.
304
00:15:36,100 --> 00:15:37,330
[Quick guitar music]
305
00:15:39,170 --> 00:15:39,620
Roque: Knowing that
306
00:15:43,690 --> 00:15:47,410
Getty is preserving George
Rodríguez’s archive—Getty’s
307
00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,690
first Chicano archive—means
images of people who
308
00:15:50,690 --> 00:15:53,230
look like my family now
live in Getty’s archives.
309
00:15:53,700 --> 00:15:56,380
And George’s photographs
belong here not only because
310
00:15:56,380 --> 00:15:59,110
of what they catalogue
but because of how they’re
311
00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:04,550
built—light, line, timing—and
made from inside the community.
312
00:16:05,130 --> 00:16:07,220
He didn’t parachute
in; he belonged.
313
00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:10,430
He knew how to read the
noon sun, how to snap a
314
00:16:10,430 --> 00:16:13,690
crowded scene so that it
reads clear and human, and
315
00:16:13,690 --> 00:16:16,190
how to wait for the breath
between chant and silence.
316
00:16:17,250 --> 00:16:21,140
And he knew how to see
people—leaders, workers, kids
317
00:16:21,140 --> 00:16:23,430
after school—as neighbors first.
318
00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:26,190
That’s the human care
you feel in each frame.
319
00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:28,940
Writing this episode,
I kept turning to the
320
00:16:28,940 --> 00:16:31,700
sun-faded photo of my dad
that I keep on my desk.
321
00:16:32,670 --> 00:16:34,550
He’s on a break while
working the fields of the
322
00:16:34,550 --> 00:16:37,800
Central Valley—no credit
line, no caption, just him
323
00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:39,980
drinking water, looking
straight into the camera.
324
00:16:40,700 --> 00:16:42,930
That picture is a
treasure in my family.
325
00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:46,250
It reminds us of the sacrifices
made for a better life.
326
00:16:46,570 --> 00:16:50,510
But artistically, I can admit it
leaves something to be desired.
327
00:16:50,900 --> 00:16:54,690
That’s one reason I’ve been so
drawn to George’s story: because
328
00:16:54,690 --> 00:16:58,560
of how he brought studio chops
to the street—and the farm.
329
00:16:59,470 --> 00:17:01,060
That craft is the
difference between a
330
00:17:01,060 --> 00:17:04,010
snapshot and a photograph
that enters the record.
331
00:17:04,410 --> 00:17:06,390
But history isn’t an either/or.
332
00:17:07,090 --> 00:17:10,260
These images have different
homes and are equally necessary.
333
00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:14,210
My dad’s picture is our
private record—family
334
00:17:14,210 --> 00:17:15,780
memory, inherited meaning.
335
00:17:16,190 --> 00:17:19,530
George’s pictures are a
record the public can see—in
336
00:17:19,530 --> 00:17:22,820
Los Angeles and beyond—so
other Chicanos can search,
337
00:17:22,850 --> 00:17:25,460
learn, and recognize
themselves and their heritage.
338
00:17:25,990 --> 00:17:29,310
One keeps a family; the other
helps keep a people visible.
339
00:17:30,010 --> 00:17:32,820
When I ask George about
his legacy, he admits
340
00:17:32,830 --> 00:17:33,980
it’s hard to grasp.
341
00:17:34,650 --> 00:17:37,410
He says it’s only later
that you realize you
342
00:17:37,410 --> 00:17:38,460
did something special.
343
00:17:38,510 --> 00:17:42,690
Rodriguez: You know, if I can
do it because my beginnings
344
00:17:42,690 --> 00:17:44,530
are very, very minimal.
345
00:17:44,540 --> 00:17:49,730
I mean, like I say, we
lived on Skid Row and I was
346
00:17:49,730 --> 00:17:50,820
raised in South Central.
347
00:17:50,820 --> 00:17:52,740
If I can do it,
anyone can do it.
348
00:17:52,890 --> 00:17:55,390
Don’t let anybody tell
you that you can’t do it.
349
00:17:55,810 --> 00:17:57,840
Because they did tell
me I couldn’t do it.
350
00:17:58,050 --> 00:18:01,140
You don't want to listen to
those people because they don’t
351
00:18:01,150 --> 00:18:03,080
know you—you might be special.
352
00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:03,650
[Music fades out]
353
00:18:06,770 --> 00:18:08,950
Roque: Recurrent is
written and produced by
354
00:18:08,950 --> 00:18:12,390
me, Jaime, with creative
support from Zoe Goldman.
355
00:18:12,930 --> 00:18:15,520
Our executive producer
is Christopher Sprinkle.
356
00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:19,090
To see the photos, head
to getty dot edu slash
357
00:18:19,130 --> 00:18:21,640
podcast slash recurrent
for some of my favorites.
358
00:18:22,710 --> 00:18:25,910
The museum has 41 of
George Rodriguez’s images
359
00:18:25,970 --> 00:18:27,250
digitized and viewable.
360
00:18:27,670 --> 00:18:30,550
There’s a link in the show
notes, and for transcripts,
361
00:18:30,570 --> 00:18:34,630
images, and additional
resources, visit getty dot edu
362
00:18:34,780 --> 00:18:36,920
slash podcast slash recurrent.
00:00:01,830 --> 00:00:05,160
Announcer: This
is a Getty Podcast
2
00:00:05,653 --> 00:00:07,543
Jaime Roque: Hey, I'm
Jaime, host of ReCurrent,
3
00:00:07,543 --> 00:00:08,743
a Getty podcast.
4
00:00:09,073 --> 00:00:11,893
On ReCurrent I explore the
hidden cultural stories
5
00:00:11,893 --> 00:00:14,713
all around us, the stories
that live in photographs,
6
00:00:14,713 --> 00:00:16,663
archives, and everyday places.
7
00:00:17,113 --> 00:00:20,653
Season two is out now with
all six episodes available,
8
00:00:20,953 --> 00:00:22,958
and I wanted to share an
episode with you here today.
9
00:00:23,938 --> 00:00:27,298
On this episode, Backlot and
Barrio, I spent time with
10
00:00:27,298 --> 00:00:30,658
photographer George Rodriguez,
whose camera captured two
11
00:00:30,658 --> 00:00:34,518
sides of Los Angeles—Hollywood
backlots and Los Angeles’
12
00:00:34,698 --> 00:00:38,728
East Side—documenting celebrity
culture while staying rooted
13
00:00:38,728 --> 00:00:40,708
in community and resistance.
14
00:00:41,308 --> 00:00:44,158
If you'd like to hear the rest
of the season and explore more
15
00:00:44,158 --> 00:00:47,518
stories like this, you can find
ReCurrent wherever you listen to
16
00:00:47,528 --> 00:00:52,068
podcasts or at getty dot edu
slash podcasts slash recurrent.
17
00:00:55,130 --> 00:01:02,782
[Voices yelling over
sirens, photos snapping.
18
00:01:02,782 --> 00:01:05,619
Voice over radio says
“All units respond”]
19
00:01:05,619 --> 00:01:06,835
[Brass music begins]
20
00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:09,370
George Rodriguez: You could
be somewhere like in East LA
21
00:01:09,710 --> 00:01:13,740
at a school walkout and then
you come back and in a half
22
00:01:13,740 --> 00:01:17,110
an hour, now you’re working
on Hollywood magazines.
23
00:01:18,660 --> 00:01:20,640
They’re not aware of the
other situation, they’re
24
00:01:20,730 --> 00:01:27,970
totally different worlds.
25
00:01:31,420 --> 00:01:33,900
Roque: That’s photographer
George Rodriguez, the most
26
00:01:33,930 --> 00:01:37,440
influential Southern California
photographer you likely
27
00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:38,960
haven’t heard of until now.
28
00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:44,780
He is talking about his
experience of shooting Hollywood
29
00:01:44,780 --> 00:01:48,070
on one role of film and the
Latino experience on the next.
30
00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:55,120
Hello, my name is Jaime
and welcome to ReCurrent.
31
00:01:58,420 --> 00:02:01,360
If you haven’t heard of
George Rodriguez, that’s okay.
32
00:02:01,790 --> 00:02:03,890
Before this story,
I hadn’t either.
33
00:02:06,590 --> 00:02:10,280
Now, I want you to imagine
this—I’m at lunch with Idurre
34
00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:13,190
Alonso, the head of Modern and
Contemporary Art at the Getty.
35
00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:15,680
We’re talking about
possible topics for
36
00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:16,630
ReCurrent’s new season.
37
00:02:16,630 --> 00:02:20,970
And in between bites she asks,
“You know George Rodriguez?” My
38
00:02:20,970 --> 00:02:24,310
first thought was, “Yeah, I know
a couple George Rodriguez’, but
39
00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:27,770
probably not the one you are
talking about.” So, I say: “No.”
40
00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:33,080
And then boom—crash course: the
East LA walkouts, the Chicano
41
00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:36,860
Moratorium, farmworkers marching
with César Chávez and the UFW…
42
00:02:37,300 --> 00:02:41,340
then a hard cut to Hollywood—red
carpets, studio lots, and
43
00:02:41,350 --> 00:02:44,410
faces you might know and
recognize like Michael Jackson,
44
00:02:44,570 --> 00:02:48,260
N.W.A., Janis Joplin, Jimi
Hendrix, even Marilyn Monroe.
45
00:02:48,260 --> 00:02:49,100
And I was hooked
and I needed to know
46
00:02:52,110 --> 00:02:52,470
more.
47
00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:54,765
[Percussion music begins]
48
00:02:55,840 --> 00:03:00,520
Rodriguez: My name is George
Rodríguez and I was born here in
49
00:03:00,710 --> 00:03:02,750
LA, actually in South Central.
50
00:03:02,990 --> 00:03:06,290
Roque: George is born in
1937 and not long after
51
00:03:06,290 --> 00:03:09,110
that, his dad opens a shoe
repair shop on Skid Row.
52
00:03:09,590 --> 00:03:11,950
The shop is downstairs and
the family in the back.
53
00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:15,310
By the late ’40s, around
twelve, George is back
54
00:03:15,310 --> 00:03:16,475
in South Central LA.
55
00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:18,960
While attending Fremont
High, George is in
56
00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:20,020
need of an elective.
57
00:03:20,220 --> 00:03:22,470
A friend suggests a
photography course because
58
00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:23,640
he heard it was easy.
59
00:03:23,940 --> 00:03:26,690
And it turns out, George
loves it and begins putting
60
00:03:26,690 --> 00:03:30,230
in hours of practice, getting
as much experience as he can.
61
00:03:30,590 --> 00:03:34,980
Then, one small favor for a
friend changes everything.
62
00:03:35,180 --> 00:03:37,030
Rodriguez: What happened
exactly was a friend of
63
00:03:37,030 --> 00:03:40,760
mine that I was in school
with, he needed a ride to
64
00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:42,670
Hollywood so I gave him a ride.
65
00:03:42,700 --> 00:03:47,990
I had luckily parked in
front of a photo studio and
66
00:03:47,990 --> 00:03:50,480
I saw this guy setting up
to take some photographs.
67
00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:55,600
I went in and talked to him
and that man was Sid Avery.
68
00:04:00,980 --> 00:04:03,370
Roque: Sid Avery was one of
Hollywood’s go-to photographers
69
00:04:03,370 --> 00:04:07,570
in the 1950s and ’60s—famous
for candid, off-set portraits
70
00:04:07,570 --> 00:04:10,030
and photo essays that ran
in magazines that were on
71
00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:12,460
nearly everyone’s coffee
table across the country.
72
00:04:13,050 --> 00:04:16,340
Magazines like LIFE,
Look, Collier’s, and The
73
00:04:16,340 --> 00:04:17,490
Saturday Evening Post.
74
00:04:18,010 --> 00:04:20,390
His subjects spanned
Audrey Hepburn, James
75
00:04:20,390 --> 00:04:23,500
Dean, Humphrey Bogart,
Elizabeth Taylor, and more.
76
00:04:23,540 --> 00:04:26,340
Rodriguez: Coincidentally
he was starting a photo lab
77
00:04:26,340 --> 00:04:30,130
so, I went and applied to
work and I got a job there
78
00:04:30,930 --> 00:04:32,670
working in the Hollywood area.
79
00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:35,130
Roque: Famous Hollywood
names start to stack up
80
00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:36,330
as the work increases.
81
00:04:36,850 --> 00:04:40,450
Rodriguez: I guess he liked
me so he would have me assist
82
00:04:40,450 --> 00:04:41,540
him on shoots he would do.
83
00:04:41,540 --> 00:04:44,620
And he, like I say, we went
to Lucille Ball’s house
84
00:04:44,620 --> 00:04:49,410
and I was only about 18
years old and I loved it.
85
00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:52,890
But then after a while you know
you take it for granted, having
86
00:04:52,890 --> 00:04:57,060
conversations with Michael
Jackson and Jim Morrison.
87
00:04:57,090 --> 00:05:00,300
Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin,
you know, you don't think
88
00:05:00,300 --> 00:05:05,880
about it, until later do you
realize how special that is.
89
00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:08,410
Roque: The origin story’s
set—a kid from South
90
00:05:08,410 --> 00:05:11,940
Central, trained at Fremont,
hustling in labs and on sets.
91
00:05:12,490 --> 00:05:14,440
But things are about
to change for him.
92
00:05:14,650 --> 00:05:17,680
He doesn’t know it yet but the
frame is starting to shift.
93
00:05:17,990 --> 00:05:20,610
Rodriguez: I remember when
I worked at Chris Lawford
94
00:05:20,620 --> 00:05:24,570
publishing company, if I knew
things were going on I would
95
00:05:24,570 --> 00:05:28,070
leave at lunchtime and go to
East LA and shoot the stuff.
96
00:05:32,900 --> 00:05:33,605
[Trumpet music begins]
97
00:05:34,180 --> 00:05:35,820
Roque: March of 1968.
98
00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,250
George is now working at the
photo lab at Columbia pictures,
99
00:05:39,630 --> 00:05:42,310
which publishes celebrity
pics like Frank Sinatra
100
00:05:42,310 --> 00:05:45,290
and Warren Beatty and movie
premiers like Bye Bye Birdie
101
00:05:45,310 --> 00:05:46,710
and Breakfast at Tiffany’s.
102
00:05:47,210 --> 00:05:50,260
But across town, students
from Wilson, Garfield,
103
00:05:50,450 --> 00:05:53,480
Lincoln, Roosevelt, and
Belmont High Schools walk out.
104
00:05:55,010 --> 00:05:55,240
[Fast-paced guitar music]
105
00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,430
They are protesting
overcrowded schools, scarce
106
00:06:01,430 --> 00:06:04,320
resources, and bias against
Mexican American students.
107
00:06:05,100 --> 00:06:08,350
It became a defining action
of the Chicano Movement—which
108
00:06:08,350 --> 00:06:11,510
was a civil-rights wave
led by Mexican Americans to
109
00:06:11,510 --> 00:06:14,340
win better schools, labor
rights, representation, and
110
00:06:14,450 --> 00:06:15,870
control over their own story.
111
00:06:16,780 --> 00:06:18,990
Rodriguez: You could be
somewhere like in East LA
112
00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:25,960
at a school walkout and it’s
immersed in 100 percent Chicano
113
00:06:25,970 --> 00:06:31,190
Mexican environment and then
you come back and in a half
114
00:06:31,210 --> 00:06:34,920
an hour, now you’re working
on Hollywood magazines and
115
00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:39,070
they’re not aware of the other
situation and they really don’t
116
00:06:39,070 --> 00:06:43,330
care and they don’t get it.
117
00:06:43,790 --> 00:06:43,920
[Trumpet music]
118
00:06:44,840 --> 00:06:47,080
Roque: Speaking to George,
something clicks for me:
119
00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,230
culture is made and kept
by the people who show up.
120
00:06:51,570 --> 00:06:54,680
George did—and saved what
might’ve been forgotten.
121
00:06:55,340 --> 00:06:58,880
He was there, documenting
the movement, yes, and also
122
00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:01,120
participating by documenting it.
123
00:07:01,730 --> 00:07:04,260
Researching this episode,
I poured through the 2018
124
00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:08,130
monograph “Double Vision”, which
catalogued George’s career.
125
00:07:08,690 --> 00:07:11,080
I was surprised to find
picture after picture that
126
00:07:11,100 --> 00:07:13,900
I recognized—from my old
Chicano Studies textbooks.
127
00:07:14,380 --> 00:07:17,090
Photographs of a requiem
procession for Robert F.
128
00:07:17,090 --> 00:07:19,760
Kennedy the day after he
died that ran down Brooklyn
129
00:07:19,780 --> 00:07:21,530
Ave. to East LA College.
130
00:07:21,980 --> 00:07:24,517
Robert Kennedy was a big
supporter of César Chávez and
131
00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:28,780
the United Farm Workers, or
UFW, so his death was a big
132
00:07:28,790 --> 00:07:30,220
deal for Mexican Americans.
133
00:07:30,610 --> 00:07:33,110
I find photographs of the
Chicano Moratorium—the
134
00:07:33,110 --> 00:07:36,100
anti–Vietnam War protests
led by Mexican Americans.
135
00:07:36,390 --> 00:07:39,340
And photographs of the United
Farm Workers organization, in
136
00:07:39,340 --> 00:07:42,650
Delano, in the Central Valley:
the boycotts, hunger strikes,
137
00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:45,460
and the UFW’s continuous
organizing alongside César
138
00:07:47,490 --> 00:07:47,767
Chávez and Dolores Huerta.
139
00:07:47,767 --> 00:07:50,100
Huerta would go on to say
George’s photos helped bring
140
00:07:50,130 --> 00:07:53,120
people to the cause, and that
he understood it because he
141
00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:54,500
was part of the community.
142
00:07:54,820 --> 00:07:57,870
Rodriguez: Yeah, I realize now
that you know that what I lived
143
00:07:57,870 --> 00:08:00,610
through is actually history.
144
00:08:00,730 --> 00:08:03,020
Roque: He took as many shots
as he could out of fear
145
00:08:03,020 --> 00:08:04,410
that nobody else would.
146
00:08:04,930 --> 00:08:07,480
And he did so with the
same care, attention,
147
00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:10,540
and artistry he used when
taking celebrity portraits.
148
00:08:11,150 --> 00:08:11,920
The originals?
149
00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:14,650
Many are now at the
Getty Research Institute.
150
00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:23,540
[Elevator moves and opens.
151
00:08:23,540 --> 00:08:23,950
Jaime greets someone]
152
00:08:23,950 --> 00:08:25,940
I’m at the Getty
Research Institute with
153
00:08:25,950 --> 00:08:28,020
curator Idurre Alonso.
154
00:08:28,020 --> 00:08:30,990
We’re going through
George Rodríguez’s photos.
155
00:08:31,580 --> 00:08:35,670
We face 30 boxes full of decades
worth of George’s contact
156
00:08:35,670 --> 00:08:37,580
sheets, negatives, and images.
157
00:08:37,580 --> 00:08:39,930
[In background] And then we can
go over all this afterwards…
158
00:08:39,970 --> 00:08:42,430
You can see the craft
in each of his photos.
159
00:08:43,060 --> 00:08:46,050
And that’s part of why
these pictures live here—not
160
00:08:46,050 --> 00:08:48,570
just for what they show,
but how they show it.
161
00:08:49,190 --> 00:08:52,940
Years on sets taught George to
read light fast, to compose in
162
00:08:52,940 --> 00:08:56,180
chaos, to wait for the breath
between action and after.
163
00:08:56,270 --> 00:08:58,730
The same eye that could
flatter a movie star found
164
00:08:58,730 --> 00:09:01,780
the glow on a hand‑painted
sign in a protest and the
165
00:09:01,780 --> 00:09:03,270
anger on a marcher’s face.
166
00:09:03,530 --> 00:09:06,700
He brought studio craft to
the sidewalk—and it shows.
167
00:09:07,060 --> 00:09:10,400
The frames are beautiful,
human, precise.
168
00:09:10,980 --> 00:09:13,830
Idurre Alonso: For me, it was
like, everything as a whole.
169
00:09:14,090 --> 00:09:16,310
I think he just wanted
to document what was
170
00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:17,800
happening for him.
171
00:09:17,970 --> 00:09:21,510
Or maybe thinking on the
future, but at the time
172
00:09:21,510 --> 00:09:22,570
it was just for him.
173
00:09:23,250 --> 00:09:26,250
Roque: In one photo, white
helmeted police stand over
174
00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:28,820
a teen protestor beaten
with batons in East LA.
175
00:09:29,650 --> 00:09:32,190
Another shows a sign that
says, “Roosevelt Chicanos
176
00:09:32,190 --> 00:09:35,780
Demand Justice.” And in
another, a march led by
177
00:09:35,780 --> 00:09:37,840
Chicano activists Brown Berets.
178
00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:41,340
Alonso: Also the depiction of
East LA and Pico Rivera is, this
179
00:09:41,340 --> 00:09:43,500
is the 60s, this is the 70s.
180
00:09:43,660 --> 00:09:47,030
And, and even also these
depictions of kids and
181
00:09:47,170 --> 00:09:48,620
the people in East LA.
182
00:09:48,620 --> 00:09:52,110
In the case of George Rodriguez,
he’s Mexican American and he’s
183
00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:57,250
actually the first Chicano
artist to enter the collection.
184
00:09:57,800 --> 00:09:58,390
Roque: Wow.
185
00:09:58,480 --> 00:09:58,660
That’s powerful.
186
00:10:00,190 --> 00:10:01,370
Alonso: Very powerful, yeah.
187
00:10:02,610 --> 00:10:04,800
Roque: Hearing
“first” lands hard.
188
00:10:05,430 --> 00:10:05,990
Really?
189
00:10:06,220 --> 00:10:07,380
the first one?
190
00:10:07,900 --> 00:10:09,690
And also: finally.
191
00:10:10,470 --> 00:10:13,350
It’s powerful to stand with
Getty’s first Chicano archive.
192
00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,290
In big institutions, it
can be hard to find your
193
00:10:16,290 --> 00:10:17,340
own heritage reflected.
194
00:10:17,790 --> 00:10:20,880
I work here, and even for
me it’s not always obvious
195
00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:22,140
where my culture fits.
196
00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:24,510
But I find resonance
in these boxes.
197
00:10:26,530 --> 00:10:29,140
I ask Idurre why
George’s archive is here.
198
00:10:30,810 --> 00:10:34,220
Alonso: You would encounter in
this archive something that is
199
00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:36,700
not usually found in archives.
200
00:10:36,710 --> 00:10:40,290
So usually when you see
photographs of LA in this
201
00:10:40,310 --> 00:10:42,470
time period, what you
see is the west side.
202
00:10:42,630 --> 00:10:43,820
You don’t see the east.
203
00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:45,400
Two different universes.
204
00:10:45,910 --> 00:10:48,770
Roque: In the archival boxes,
it isn’t just celebrities
205
00:10:48,770 --> 00:10:51,610
and protests—there are
records of daily life.
206
00:10:51,860 --> 00:10:54,370
Kids after school,
storefronts on a Sunday,
207
00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:55,760
neighbors on the block.
208
00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:59,250
As George puts it, you’re
photographing the politics,
209
00:10:59,250 --> 00:11:02,940
sure, but behind the politics,
people live full lives.
210
00:11:03,250 --> 00:11:06,040
Rodriguez: The people, you
know, they don’t realize
211
00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:08,560
that their heroes are just
trying to make a living.
212
00:11:09,090 --> 00:11:12,990
That’s just like me, you know,
I was taking pictures, some of
213
00:11:12,990 --> 00:11:16,720
this stuff was very powerful,
and that’s what I… I knew that
214
00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:20,230
I had to do it because I thought
nobody else was doing it.
215
00:11:20,990 --> 00:11:24,800
Roque: Culture—images,
stories, memory—is safeguarded
216
00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:28,260
by people long before an
institution gets involved.
217
00:11:28,370 --> 00:11:30,650
George’s approach to
documenting and capturing
218
00:11:30,650 --> 00:11:33,600
his culture and community
is vital and alive today.
219
00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:33,954
[car driving]
220
00:11:34,130 --> 00:11:36,480
I drive to Santa Ana to
meet photographer and
221
00:11:36,500 --> 00:11:39,430
educator William Camargo
and see the legacy of
222
00:11:39,430 --> 00:11:40,710
George Rodriguez in action.
223
00:11:40,710 --> 00:11:41,365
Hey!
224
00:11:42,020 --> 00:11:42,100
William Camargo: Hey!
225
00:11:42,100 --> 00:11:42,530
How you doing?
226
00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:45,830
[chatter fades]
227
00:11:46,650 --> 00:11:47,740
My name is William Camargo.
228
00:11:47,810 --> 00:11:50,600
I was born in Santana,
but was raised in Anaheim.
229
00:11:50,690 --> 00:11:52,960
My first introduction to
photography was in high school.
230
00:11:54,010 --> 00:11:58,040
I was just actually trying
to get an easy A, and it just
231
00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:00,920
turned out that I enjoyed
photography quite a bit.
232
00:12:01,330 --> 00:12:02,860
Roque: [Over chatter] Already,
I hear echoes of Geroge’s
233
00:12:03,060 --> 00:12:07,020
story—chancing into a career
in pursuit of an easy A. And
234
00:12:07,030 --> 00:12:10,050
there are more similarities:
celebrities by day and
235
00:12:10,050 --> 00:12:11,310
social movements by night.
236
00:12:11,580 --> 00:12:13,550
Camargo: I was doing a lot
of music photography too
237
00:12:13,550 --> 00:12:17,570
and once in a while I was
stringing for a photo agency.
238
00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,230
Like these red carpets
where I would always get
239
00:12:20,230 --> 00:12:22,150
these assignments that are
like the premier of this
240
00:12:22,150 --> 00:12:24,840
movie in the Beverly Hotel
and then the afternoon was
241
00:12:24,860 --> 00:12:28,300
like a protest in downtown.
242
00:12:29,210 --> 00:12:32,000
Roque: But William sees George’s
impact in another project.
243
00:12:32,140 --> 00:12:34,650
Camargo: The book I’m
finishing right now is probably
244
00:12:35,550 --> 00:12:38,420
one of the big influences
from George too, right?
245
00:12:38,910 --> 00:12:40,160
It’s called Origins
in Displacement.
246
00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:42,750
Roque: It’s a portrait
of Anaheim you don’t
247
00:12:42,750 --> 00:12:43,760
see on postcards.
248
00:12:44,430 --> 00:12:46,960
Camargo: A lot of history
was hidden or was not told.
249
00:12:47,020 --> 00:12:50,880
I never really learned
about it until I was reading
250
00:12:50,940 --> 00:12:54,660
all these alternative
newspapers where I first
251
00:12:54,660 --> 00:12:55,800
encountered these archives.
252
00:12:56,390 --> 00:13:00,170
I am just documenting my own
community, right, walking
253
00:13:00,230 --> 00:13:01,860
around, photographing
friends, photographing
254
00:13:01,860 --> 00:13:05,220
family, photographing folks
I was just meeting as well.
255
00:13:05,230 --> 00:13:08,090
You know, people were hitting
me up from Instagram being like,
256
00:13:08,130 --> 00:13:09,710
“Hey, come to my neighborhood.
Like, I'll show you
257
00:13:20,580 --> 00:13:20,610
around.”
258
00:13:20,610 --> 00:13:20,730
[Violin music]
259
00:13:20,730 --> 00:13:23,610
Roque: And the work
continues—William in Anaheim
260
00:13:23,610 --> 00:13:25,210
doing work inspired by George.
261
00:13:25,790 --> 00:13:27,490
And there are now
countless other Chicano
262
00:13:27,490 --> 00:13:29,750
photographers holding up
their corners of the city.
263
00:13:30,750 --> 00:13:34,290
Photographers like Chito,
Banda, Frankie Orozco, Suitcase
264
00:13:34,290 --> 00:13:35,840
Joe, and Estevan Oriol.
265
00:13:36,630 --> 00:13:37,630
We’re in safe hands.
266
00:13:38,140 --> 00:13:41,420
Our culture, our community,
is being recorded by this new
267
00:13:41,420 --> 00:13:42,580
generation of photographers.
268
00:13:43,990 --> 00:13:46,460
In the next few months, George
is preparing to move out of
269
00:13:46,460 --> 00:13:49,660
his downtown studio space,
where he’s been for 25 years.
270
00:13:50,370 --> 00:13:52,150
This is one reason
why his archive is
271
00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:53,470
moving to the GRI now.
272
00:13:54,190 --> 00:13:56,620
But even as George prepares
to hang up his camera,
273
00:13:57,010 --> 00:13:58,340
his work isn’t vanishing.
274
00:13:59,130 --> 00:13:59,990
It’s multiplying.
275
00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:03,410
And this is what makes him one
of the most influential Southern
276
00:14:03,410 --> 00:14:06,250
California photographers,
even if this is the first
277
00:14:06,250 --> 00:14:07,210
you’re hearing of his story.
278
00:14:07,210 --> 00:14:10,640
[Alonso in the background] I
set up things so that we can…
279
00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:11,900
[over background chatter]
Back at Getty, Idurre and
280
00:14:11,900 --> 00:14:15,160
I return to the boxes of
George’s photographs—thinking
281
00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:18,230
about how images move through
hands, families, and time.
282
00:14:19,010 --> 00:14:21,800
They’re being catalogued not so
that they can be sealed off, but
283
00:14:21,860 --> 00:14:23,360
so that they can be findable.
284
00:14:24,060 --> 00:14:27,600
And if we do this right,
they’re returnable—pop-ups
285
00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:31,210
in schools and rec centers,
library showings, neighborhood
286
00:14:31,220 --> 00:14:34,660
talks, and digitized sets
people can search—ways to
287
00:14:34,660 --> 00:14:37,270
access their own history,
their photos, their culture,
288
00:14:37,580 --> 00:14:39,660
their part of LA’s story.
289
00:14:40,230 --> 00:14:41,990
Preservation is step one.
290
00:14:42,300 --> 00:14:43,770
Circulation is step two.
291
00:14:44,170 --> 00:14:46,410
Inspiring the next
generation is three.
292
00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:49,170
Alonso: The photography
department is putting
293
00:14:49,170 --> 00:14:53,153
together a show on Chicano
photographers and George
294
00:14:53,153 --> 00:14:54,540
is gonna be part of it.
295
00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:59,780
So, in my opinion, I would like
to see these photos going back
296
00:15:01,020 --> 00:15:04,950
to East LA, or South LA in many
cases, because there’s a lot of
297
00:15:04,950 --> 00:15:08,850
photographs of the kids in South
LA at different high schools.
298
00:15:08,850 --> 00:15:13,820
And how can you work with the
kids today and show them these
299
00:15:13,820 --> 00:15:17,880
photographs and what happened
and make them think about the
300
00:15:17,910 --> 00:15:21,390
history of what is happening
now or the usage of images
301
00:15:21,870 --> 00:15:26,100
today because I think they’re
very powerful and even though
302
00:15:26,100 --> 00:15:30,370
they’re like 60 years old,
they’re still very relevant
303
00:15:30,370 --> 00:15:33,900
today because many of these
issues were never resolved.
304
00:15:36,100 --> 00:15:37,330
[Quick guitar music]
305
00:15:39,170 --> 00:15:39,620
Roque: Knowing that
306
00:15:43,690 --> 00:15:47,410
Getty is preserving George
Rodríguez’s archive—Getty’s
307
00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,690
first Chicano archive—means
images of people who
308
00:15:50,690 --> 00:15:53,230
look like my family now
live in Getty’s archives.
309
00:15:53,700 --> 00:15:56,380
And George’s photographs
belong here not only because
310
00:15:56,380 --> 00:15:59,110
of what they catalogue
but because of how they’re
311
00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:04,550
built—light, line, timing—and
made from inside the community.
312
00:16:05,130 --> 00:16:07,220
He didn’t parachute
in; he belonged.
313
00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:10,430
He knew how to read the
noon sun, how to snap a
314
00:16:10,430 --> 00:16:13,690
crowded scene so that it
reads clear and human, and
315
00:16:13,690 --> 00:16:16,190
how to wait for the breath
between chant and silence.
316
00:16:17,250 --> 00:16:21,140
And he knew how to see
people—leaders, workers, kids
317
00:16:21,140 --> 00:16:23,430
after school—as neighbors first.
318
00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:26,190
That’s the human care
you feel in each frame.
319
00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:28,940
Writing this episode,
I kept turning to the
320
00:16:28,940 --> 00:16:31,700
sun-faded photo of my dad
that I keep on my desk.
321
00:16:32,670 --> 00:16:34,550
He’s on a break while
working the fields of the
322
00:16:34,550 --> 00:16:37,800
Central Valley—no credit
line, no caption, just him
323
00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:39,980
drinking water, looking
straight into the camera.
324
00:16:40,700 --> 00:16:42,930
That picture is a
treasure in my family.
325
00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:46,250
It reminds us of the sacrifices
made for a better life.
326
00:16:46,570 --> 00:16:50,510
But artistically, I can admit it
leaves something to be desired.
327
00:16:50,900 --> 00:16:54,690
That’s one reason I’ve been so
drawn to George’s story: because
328
00:16:54,690 --> 00:16:58,560
of how he brought studio chops
to the street—and the farm.
329
00:16:59,470 --> 00:17:01,060
That craft is the
difference between a
330
00:17:01,060 --> 00:17:04,010
snapshot and a photograph
that enters the record.
331
00:17:04,410 --> 00:17:06,390
But history isn’t an either/or.
332
00:17:07,090 --> 00:17:10,260
These images have different
homes and are equally necessary.
333
00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:14,210
My dad’s picture is our
private record—family
334
00:17:14,210 --> 00:17:15,780
memory, inherited meaning.
335
00:17:16,190 --> 00:17:19,530
George’s pictures are a
record the public can see—in
336
00:17:19,530 --> 00:17:22,820
Los Angeles and beyond—so
other Chicanos can search,
337
00:17:22,850 --> 00:17:25,460
learn, and recognize
themselves and their heritage.
338
00:17:25,990 --> 00:17:29,310
One keeps a family; the other
helps keep a people visible.
339
00:17:30,010 --> 00:17:32,820
When I ask George about
his legacy, he admits
340
00:17:32,830 --> 00:17:33,980
it’s hard to grasp.
341
00:17:34,650 --> 00:17:37,410
He says it’s only later
that you realize you
342
00:17:37,410 --> 00:17:38,460
did something special.
343
00:17:38,510 --> 00:17:42,690
Rodriguez: You know, if I can
do it because my beginnings
344
00:17:42,690 --> 00:17:44,530
are very, very minimal.
345
00:17:44,540 --> 00:17:49,730
I mean, like I say, we
lived on Skid Row and I was
346
00:17:49,730 --> 00:17:50,820
raised in South Central.
347
00:17:50,820 --> 00:17:52,740
If I can do it,
anyone can do it.
348
00:17:52,890 --> 00:17:55,390
Don’t let anybody tell
you that you can’t do it.
349
00:17:55,810 --> 00:17:57,840
Because they did tell
me I couldn’t do it.
350
00:17:58,050 --> 00:18:01,140
You don't want to listen to
those people because they don’t
351
00:18:01,150 --> 00:18:03,080
know you—you might be special.
352
00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:03,650
[Music fades out]
353
00:18:06,770 --> 00:18:08,950
Roque: Recurrent is
written and produced by
354
00:18:08,950 --> 00:18:12,390
me, Jaime, with creative
support from Zoe Goldman.
355
00:18:12,930 --> 00:18:15,520
Our executive producer
is Christopher Sprinkle.
356
00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:19,090
To see the photos, head
to getty dot edu slash
357
00:18:19,130 --> 00:18:21,640
podcast slash recurrent
for some of my favorites.
358
00:18:22,710 --> 00:18:25,910
The museum has 41 of
George Rodriguez’s images
359
00:18:25,970 --> 00:18:27,250
digitized and viewable.
360
00:18:27,670 --> 00:18:30,550
There’s a link in the show
notes, and for transcripts,
361
00:18:30,570 --> 00:18:34,630
images, and additional
resources, visit getty dot edu
362
00:18:34,780 --> 00:18:36,920
slash podcast slash recurrent.
