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00:00:10.080Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to another episode of Reality Writes.
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00:00:11.839I am author Ellie Alexander.
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00:00:17.600This is the podcast where we talk about all things writer-ish, bookish, and we try to take you behind the scenes.
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00:00:22.079And I am here with the tech guy today, and we are gonna go behind the scenes, literally.
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00:00:23.039Yeah, it is.
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00:00:25.679Actually, I'm gonna be behind the scenes the whole episode.
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00:00:28.960So that's except for right now, obviously.
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00:00:40.640But uh no, we have a very special guest uh for this episode, and I am excited because this is one topic that I just can't wrap my head around.
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00:00:50.240Like the just the sheer amount of work that must go into this guest's profession is just bonkers to me.
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00:00:51.039Right?
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00:00:51.679I know.
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00:00:54.560Okay, so we're dragging out the mystery for you, darlings.
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00:00:57.119But today our guest is Victoria Lynn Arbor.
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00:01:01.920She is a friend of mine from my writers' group, and she is a professional audiobook narrator.
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00:01:18.799So she's gonna take us inside her home studio, and we're gonna do a deep dive on what it's like to find an audiobook, uh, the author's perspective, the narrator's perspective, the amount of time and effort, all of the things.
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00:01:25.760Um, and I have learned so much from Victoria over the last few years in our writers' group, too, that I haven't even known as an author.
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00:01:35.599The one caveat that I will say before we bring her on is that there are different paths to publication when it comes to audiobooks too.
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00:01:41.599And we just did a Reality Writes episode about paths to publication and how there are many, many these days.
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00:01:54.560And as far as audiobooks, if you're traditionally published, your publishing house or your agent will either have in-house services where they're producing the audio or they will contract out with audio publishers.
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00:02:10.240So you, as the author, don't have a lot of input in that process, short of maybe picking narrators from their group of approved narrators and or, you know, providing insight in terms of words and how you're going to pronounce things.
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00:02:17.840I always think back to my OG series, The Meg Reed Mysteries, and it would be things like it's the Willamette River, not the Willamette.
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00:02:18.719Willamet.
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00:02:24.240Willamet Willamette or Siskiy Mountains or you know that kind of thing.
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00:02:31.840Um, but then if you're indie published, you would work directly with somebody like Victoria Lynn and you would go through that whole process.
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00:02:40.319So I'm excited for her to share what that's like and yeah, give us a look at how many hours it takes to produce an audiobook.
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00:03:00.879Yeah, and that's that's what I am very excited to hear about because I can tell you right now, I would not have the patience to do what she does because, well, the patience to do what she does or to actually be a post-producer for an audiobook narrator, which hopefully she will talk about too.
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00:03:09.840Because I will tell you right now that it takes a while to edit every episode of Reality Rights, which I do myself.
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00:03:15.360And these are usually short programs, you know, 25 to 45 minutes.
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00:03:16.960A lot of edits go in.
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00:03:23.199I have to cut out ums, uhs, cars driving by because we don't have a professional studio, all the things.
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00:03:31.439So I can't even imagine how much work must go into narrating a 75 to 85,000-word book.
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00:03:34.319That is just I'm so excited.
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00:03:36.240Yeah, it's gonna be a great episode.
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00:03:40.159So without further ado, let's bring on Victoria Lynn Arbor.
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00:03:45.840Well, I am so excited to have my friend Victoria Lynn Arbor here with me today.
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00:03:47.840Uh, we are in a writer's group together.
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00:03:59.039So it's been so fun not only to write with you and get feedback on bookish stuff, but also to watch your process of becoming a very successful audio narrator.
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00:04:09.919And also from the writing lens, what an immense amount of time and effort and backend goes to taking a book and turning it into an audiobook.
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00:04:10.479Yeah.
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00:04:14.240It it's and we met because I was writing romance.
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00:04:14.879Yes.
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00:04:16.079So yeah.
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00:04:20.879And now I'm now I'm narrating uh, and my books are sitting there.
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00:04:22.160Someday I'll get back to them.
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00:04:24.879Well, you know, it's all it's all you're still in the book world.
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00:04:36.959Okay, well, let's start with sort of your background because you also have this acting background, which I think is fascinating and and sort of does track to the idea of like leading you into narration in some way, shape, or form.
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00:04:38.399Oh, yeah, absolutely.
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00:04:45.360There's a lot of, I know a lot of great narrators who do not have the acting background, but it helps a lot.
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00:04:50.639And that said, narration is a very different medium than stage work.
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00:05:02.160And you're in a tiny little booth, and you know, I actually at I think I've got five feet here, and this is considered a decent size amount of space for recording.
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00:05:16.879So um a lot of the acting background um is valuable for things like warm-ups and character development and a lot of the research that goes into it ahead of time.
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00:05:33.360But um I've been just doing uh when I was actually in the corporate world and I would go down to the studios that they had and just you know volunteer to do uh tech videos and um tutorials.
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00:05:39.439And so over the years, I've done a whole bunch of different things, the radio and commercial.
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00:05:43.600And when I started this, I actually was thinking I was gonna go into voiceover.
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00:05:52.079But you know, I work in a bookstore, I was working on a novel, and um, and yeah, all things books.
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00:06:06.079I realized I was very intimidated by long form narration, uh voice work, and but I just fell in love with doing a 10-hour book, all the characters, working with the authors.
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00:06:09.600It's been a it's been really a great gig.
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00:06:10.800That's so amazing.
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00:06:21.279Okay, but uh let's touch on a little bit, like because I didn't really think about this, and I've had, you know, many 45 plus of my titles over the years in audio form.
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00:06:24.800Although, spoiler alert, I never listened to my own because it's so painful.
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00:06:29.360Not because of the narrator, but to be like, oh, I should have had a better word choice there or whatever.
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00:06:34.399But I never thought about the fact that narrating a book is very different than acting, right?
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00:06:40.480So what's the balance point of like how much you bring in versus how much it's reading?
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00:07:06.639Yeah, no, it's a great, uh, it's a great point because one of the things, and I think the difference between getting a narrator who's, you know, just you know, off ACX in their first five books versus somebody who's been doing it for a while is in acting, when you're on stage, you are center stage and you are the highlight and you are bringing everything, and you want that review to be about you.
00:07:06.639 -->
00:07:09.279In narration, it's about the author.
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00:07:13.519In narration, you are embodying the author's words.
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00:07:26.639And if you are successful, people may not know who the narrator is after it's over because you don't want them to be like, oh, she did a, you know, that character really well.
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00:07:37.759You are hopefully, as a narrator, I'm getting you immersed into the story and I'm serving the author's words rather than aggrandizing myself.
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00:07:44.639Yeah, but it's so fascinating because I never think about it, I would not have made that distinction prior to you talking about that in our writer's group.
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00:07:52.319I'm like, oh, it is true because it's such a different experience to immerse yourself in a story versus watching a performance on the stage, like you're saying.
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00:08:02.879Okay, so in the intro, I was talking about the fact that there are like in regular publishing, there are so many paths based on how you are published.
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00:08:07.279So for like traditional publishing, your publishing house is probably gonna sell those secondary rights.
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00:08:11.120I don't usually have a say in who's doing the narration, that sort of thing.
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00:08:16.879But for indie, authors can seek out narrators like you to hire.
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00:08:26.800So let's talk a little bit about that process first, and then we can do a deeper dive into some of the things to be on the lookout for: pros, cons, etc.
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00:08:28.240Yeah.
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00:08:33.039So as you mentioned, there are various ways to get your work published.
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00:08:46.879So for traditional authors, you know, I know that you've done both, but uh, for your traditionally published books, your publisher is probably going out and either they're doing it in-house or they're hiring a production company.
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00:08:52.879My goal as a narrator is to be on as many rosters of those production companies as I can.
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00:08:58.399And uh, when I meet new authors, I tell them, I'm on podium's roster.
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00:09:03.039So if you're gonna use podium, you might ask for me or high gravity.
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00:09:06.960So I'm promoting those rosters, but that's our traditional publishing.
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00:09:13.759If you're an independent author, uh, I hear all the time, I can't do an audiobook, it's gonna be too expensive.
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00:09:19.360Or, you know, there are a lot, just a lot of misinformation about whether it's achievable.
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00:09:23.200And as if you wrote it, an audiobook is an achievable goal.
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00:09:49.600So um, one of the main platforms for um getting your indie book done would be uh actually, I don't want to start with ACX, I'm gonna mention uh the production companies just a little bit more because uh there are a whole series of them that will you own the rights, they will find you uh a handful of narrators, they will work with you, you spend more money, and the production company will do the work.
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00:10:02.960So you can go to a production company just the same way as someone like Hachette goes to the production company and has them do Ellie Alexander's books, uh, I don't know if you use Hashek McMillan.
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00:10:04.559Right, yeah, yeah.
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00:10:16.879Um, you know, um so as an indie author, you can go that route and you can find a production company who'll do a great job and you're gonna pay a little more and you're gonna end up and they're gonna do your distribution and the whole thing.
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00:10:32.159If you are really on a um a shoe strap and you want to do it all yourself, so ACX is the platform that Audible uses, uh that Amazon uses for their books.
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00:10:35.840It's an author narrator exchange.
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00:10:51.679Um so basically, as an author, you put you have to get your your rights to your book, your audio rights, you put up your information, you're you put up a three to five minute piece snippet for an audition.
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00:10:56.240So one of the problems we have is you know, we'll have authors who are like, here's my whole manuscript.
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00:10:57.279Don't do that.
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00:10:59.039No, right.
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00:11:00.000Please don't.
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00:11:00.480Yeah.
00:11:00.960 -->
00:11:03.279Or they'll be like, here's my first chapter.
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00:11:04.480And it's like, no.
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00:11:15.279Um, anywhere from a a page to maybe three, four pages of text is all you want to put up for someone to audition.
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00:11:26.480And it should include like action, it should include um some uh if there are people, uh male voices, female voices, alien voices.
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00:11:29.360Um, so if you want to hear anything specific, right?
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00:11:31.679That that's your time, the three to five minutes.
00:11:31.679 -->
00:11:34.720And it goes out there and the narrators see it.
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00:11:37.039You set a price range.
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00:11:59.919Um the price range can be royalty share, where you're gonna get brand new narrators who may not have done a book before, royalty share plus, which means that you're probably gonna end up paying for production uh for the post-production, or anywhere from you know, 100 to 200, 200 to 400.
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00:12:12.480So you set your prices and then narrators audition for it, and you get you can get lots and lots and lots of um auditions very quickly.
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00:12:19.200What's it like being on the other end where you're getting, you know, requests for auditions?
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00:12:23.840Like, how do you go about choosing what books you match with?
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00:12:25.039Yeah.
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00:12:32.799So um I gotta be honest, I use ANM, I use ACX mostly for my practice.
00:12:32.799 -->
00:12:36.480Like if you're a working narrator, you want to be narrating something every day.
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00:12:39.759And there are books, there are times where I don't have a book going.
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00:12:46.320Um, and so, or I want to practice a new genre, I want to, you know, try something out.
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00:12:48.960And I use the ACX auditions for that.
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00:12:51.279And I'll, you know, put those and I'll put those in.
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00:12:55.360But that's one way where I can get new scripts every day and practice them.
00:12:55.360 -->
00:12:57.600Um I set we set filters.
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00:13:03.919So as a narrator, if you have a royalty share book out there, I'm not going to see it.
00:13:03.919 -->
00:13:16.559Because um I have mindset if you have a royalty share, royalty plus real royalty share plus, then um then I will see it.
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00:13:25.279And I do that because if you're not willing to put money into any money at all into it, you're asking me to absorb all the risk.
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00:13:39.360Um and and uh, you know, when I look for books, I'm like if I'm especially if I'm looking at a lower cost point or royalty share plus, I'm looking, is it a really good cover?
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00:13:41.759Yeah, right.
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00:13:44.240Is it a good premise?
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00:13:47.039Is it one of the genres that I will enjoy doing?
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00:13:51.120Because ACX, the rates for me are gonna be lower.
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00:13:52.559I'm not gonna make as much money.
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00:13:58.399So it better be a book that I am gonna have a uh fun time uh doing.
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00:14:05.440So that's why I'm trying to time versus money thing.
00:14:05.440 -->
00:14:12.320Uh, when I have many books, when I have books going, um, I may not even look on that.
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00:14:24.320I have a website and I try and, you know, every time I fill out one of my audition messages, I'm like, yeah, contact me directly because I may not be on, you know, I may not be on regularly.
00:14:24.320 -->
00:14:27.840And ACX says it's a it's a standalone mailbox.
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00:14:32.159So you don't get it, it doesn't come to you your email or anything.
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00:14:33.039Nice.
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00:14:34.559Okay, let's talk about.
00:14:34.559 -->
00:14:41.919So you find a book, you're a match with the author, talk us through the process of what happens next.
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00:14:45.039You get like a 70,000-word manuscript.
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00:14:51.039I see that you're in your studio today, but what how do you approach it?
00:14:51.679 -->
00:14:55.519Uh so there's a bunch of other steps, unfortunately.
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00:14:56.720So it does take a while.
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00:14:58.320So I get uh I get an offer.
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00:15:03.919If this is ACX, um, I actually tr usually try and bring that offer offline.
00:15:03.919 -->
00:15:07.600And we talked a little bit earlier about the number of scams going on.
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00:15:08.000Yeah.
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00:15:16.480So um some narrators they go through ACX, you never talk to them, they never talk to you, you get your audiobook all as well.
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00:15:17.440Great.
00:15:17.440 -->
00:15:20.720Um, I like to set up a meeting with my authors.
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00:15:27.840So I usually have a meeting, I have a welcome packet that tells them everything I'm expecting them to provide to me.
00:15:27.840 -->
00:15:28.159Yeah.
00:15:28.159 -->
00:15:32.879I have a contract where I tell them everything I'm gonna provide to them.
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00:15:37.519Um, and we have a phone call where we discuss it.
00:15:37.519 -->
00:15:37.919Right.
00:15:37.919 -->
00:15:46.639So once all of that is taken care of and uh we all know our expectations, um, there's always a 15-minute sample.
00:15:46.639 -->
00:15:51.600So they've sent me their manuscript and I start prepping the manuscript.
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00:15:53.120They send me a sample.
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00:15:57.91915 minutes is about five pages, depends on how dense your writing is.
00:15:57.919 -->
00:16:01.360And that is an opportunity.
00:16:01.360 -->
00:16:03.039So you've offered me a job.
00:16:03.039 -->
00:16:07.279Let's just assume Ellie has an indie book and she wants Victoria Lynn to do her book.
00:16:07.279 -->
00:16:09.759And so she sends it to her.
00:16:09.759 -->
00:16:15.759And this, I do a 15-minute snippet, which hopefully has your main characters in it.
00:16:15.759 -->
00:16:18.000And then that gives you the opportunity.
00:16:18.000 -->
00:16:27.679So one of our writing group, I just finished her book for Storm Publishing, and in my 15-minute snippet, she's like, Yeah, the hero sounds dumb.
00:16:28.080 -->
00:16:28.399Okay.
00:16:28.879 -->
00:16:29.360All right.
00:16:29.679 -->
00:16:30.960Notes I can do, I can work.
00:16:32.480 -->
00:16:36.000I want it fast-paced, I want it like Gilmore Girls, fast-paced.
00:16:36.000 -->
00:16:36.559Okay.
00:16:36.559 -->
00:16:37.120Okay.
00:16:37.120 -->
00:16:45.440So we go back and we do another 15 minute, or you know, I take the three, you know, she liked this, or she liked that.
00:16:45.440 -->
00:16:49.120So we leave the thing she liked, we adjust the thing she doesn't like.
00:16:49.120 -->
00:16:54.080Once we have approval on that 15-minute snippet, that's it.
00:16:54.080 -->
00:16:57.440That's the author's input right there.
00:16:57.440 -->
00:16:59.919And I take it and I run with it.
00:16:59.919 -->
00:17:08.240And then I do, you know, my uh, you know, 10 hour, 11-hour book and hope that they love it.
00:17:08.640 -->
00:17:09.279Right.
00:17:09.279 -->
00:17:12.240Okay, so 10 hours, break that down.
00:17:12.240 -->
00:17:15.119Like how for me, you know, we talk a lot about in our writing group.
00:17:15.119 -->
00:17:22.559Like, I write four or five hours a day, but I by one or two o'clock in the afternoon, I'm spent because I have my routine that I've been doing for so many years.
00:17:22.559 -->
00:17:26.880Like, you're not recording all 10 hours in one stint, right?
00:17:26.880 -->
00:17:29.039I mean, how would your voice survive?
00:17:29.359 -->
00:17:30.240No, it wouldn't.
00:17:30.240 -->
00:17:30.880It wouldn't.
00:17:30.880 -->
00:17:42.960And um, because there there are a lot of other steps in making an audiobook, so I might be doing prep, you know, I might be prepping one book while I'm narrating another book.
00:17:42.960 -->
00:17:48.799But the actual narration time, I try for a minimum of two hours a day.
00:17:48.799 -->
00:17:55.440And that's usually one hour sitting, a couple, you know, 15-minute break, another hour.
00:17:55.440 -->
00:18:05.279And then if I if I have availability and we have quiet time, there's no water running, there's no kids in the house, then I might do another hour at night.
00:18:05.279 -->
00:18:15.039But typically it's maybe, you know, I'll do if I'm not on some sort of deadline, I'm looking at maybe two hours of actual talking into the microphone.
00:18:15.039 -->
00:18:20.319Every hour of finished, we call them per finished, it's finished hour.
00:18:20.319 -->
00:18:29.039Every finished hour takes anywhere from two to five hours to produce, right?
00:18:29.039 -->
00:18:36.160So my average, my average is probably around three hours for every finished hour.
00:18:36.160 -->
00:18:44.720And that that is um, you know, I might have put in 20 hours in prepping your book.
00:18:44.720 -->
00:18:53.519So I get this manuscript, I read it for the second time, highlighting it and writing notes.
00:18:53.519 -->
00:19:04.319All my questions need to be asked before I start recording, looking up pronunciations, although frequently I'll do that while I'm recording because uh you just don't know.
00:19:04.319 -->
00:19:11.839And the author will give you the pronunciation of the main character's names, but then you get to this and you're like, is it mischievous or mischievous?
00:19:11.839 -->
00:19:12.559Right.
00:19:12.559 -->
00:19:14.480You know, yeah, yeah.
00:19:14.480 -->
00:19:17.599You know, even simple words that you say every day.
00:19:17.599 -->
00:19:24.960So this, so the print so there's the prep work, the recording work, and then so maybe I've recorded two hours in the morning.
00:19:24.960 -->
00:19:30.640In the evening, I'll go back and I look at, we do something called punch and roll.
00:19:30.640 -->
00:19:41.759So that means a punch and roll, I'm going to read, I make a mistake, I go back before the mistake, set my timer, and it reads me back, and I just roll back into the text.
00:19:41.759 -->
00:19:44.640So it's a little bit like editing as you go.
00:19:44.640 -->
00:19:48.480But those breaks, every one of those breaks is an opportunity for a mistake.
00:19:48.480 -->
00:19:51.519And we don't want any of those in the final uh files.
00:19:51.519 -->
00:20:03.920So I go and I just listen to the breaks and make sure that I set my cursor at the right spot, and there's not a bunch of breath before, or I haven't cut off the R or the G at the end of the word.
00:20:03.920 -->
00:20:13.759And so I do all that and then I package that file, and I use um I use a professional audio engineer for my post-production.
00:20:13.759 -->
00:20:15.359Some people do it themselves.
00:20:15.359 -->
00:20:16.880I don't recommend it.
00:20:16.880 -->
00:20:19.119Uh but it is doable.
00:20:19.119 -->
00:20:28.880I have done my own post-production for some books, but I much prefer to hire somebody who's who's really good at post-production.
00:20:29.119 -->
00:20:37.039Yeah, I mean, to me, that feels like the equivalent in um, you know, print production where it's like you want fresh eyes, you want somebody else to do those last passes, right?
00:20:37.039 -->
00:20:41.279This is like fresh ears on the project to be like, oh wait, there's this little spot.
00:20:41.279 -->
00:20:42.000Yeah.
00:20:42.400 -->
00:20:43.200Well, proofing.
00:20:43.200 -->
00:20:45.279Never, never proof your own audio.
00:20:45.279 -->
00:20:52.640Don't proof your own work because your mind has already, you know, told you what you think should be on the page.
00:20:52.640 -->
00:20:54.960You see, you think you got it right.
00:20:54.960 -->
00:20:59.359I send my work to a proofer or my audio engineer has a proofer.
00:20:59.359 -->
00:21:02.000They send back what's called a pickup packet.
00:21:02.000 -->
00:21:10.400And that packet might have my last one had about 80, which is great for a 10 to what was it, 11 hour book.
00:21:10.400 -->
00:21:19.599So that means there's 80 spots where I need to go back in and re-record a sentence to make sure that it's nice and smooth.
00:21:19.599 -->
00:21:26.480And usually I left out a word or I added a word in that didn't belong there, or I switched to.
00:21:26.720 -->
00:21:28.000Yeah, like we do.
00:21:28.000 -->
00:21:32.960Well, and this is why, you know, if readers are like, wow, why are audio books so expensive?
00:21:32.960 -->
00:21:34.079Here you go, right?
00:21:34.079 -->
00:21:37.039Think of how much time and people are touching it.
00:21:37.039 -->
00:21:42.079And really, this is almost like another editorial pass, too, in the process.
00:21:42.079 -->
00:21:48.720I mean, you're not changing the original content, but you, in terms of the audio piece, are doing editorial work.
00:21:49.119 -->
00:22:04.960So that's actually really important because a lot of authors and some of my newer authors didn't realize maybe in their first book that if I'm going, if you want me to be an editor, which Something I've done and I can do, that's a different service.
00:22:04.960 -->
00:22:20.319So obviously, when I find an odd when I find an obvious typo, because I've met with my authors, I feel I'm friends with my authors, I will send a handful of typos to the author if I find them and they can fix them in their ebooks.
00:22:20.319 -->
00:22:20.720Yeah.
00:22:20.720 -->
00:22:29.920Um, however, if there's a lot of problems, my job is actually to record exactly what you wrote.
00:22:29.920 -->
00:22:30.400Yeah.
00:22:30.400 -->
00:22:46.480I might, hopefully, in that second pass, if there's something that's that I don't understand, or I'm like, this is odd, or you have the same word, you know, three times, I might reach out to you and be, did you mean to do this before I start recording?
00:22:46.480 -->
00:22:51.119Um, once I've started recording, uh it's whatever you wrote.
00:22:51.119 -->
00:22:57.279So um there is an additional cost associated with if you listen.
00:22:57.279 -->
00:23:10.640So my one of my um authors likes to proof her own work after I give her finished vials, and she discovered a, you know, she walked into the bedroom, but she was already in the bedroom.
00:23:10.640 -->
00:23:11.359Right.
00:23:11.359 -->
00:23:11.839Yes.
00:23:11.839 -->
00:23:12.319Right.
00:23:12.319 -->
00:23:15.599She really wanted to fit, but she really wanted to fix it, right?
00:23:15.599 -->
00:23:15.920Yeah.
00:23:15.920 -->
00:23:20.640But that means I have to go back to my engineer and he has to fix it.
00:23:20.640 -->
00:23:22.000And it wasn't my mistake.
00:23:22.000 -->
00:23:26.880So I fixed my mistakes on my on my dime.
00:23:26.880 -->
00:23:32.640Um, and the author ended up, I don't know, it was, it was not, it was like, it wasn't a lot of money money.
00:23:32.640 -->
00:23:36.559We ended up being able to uh uh only change, I think, two files.
00:23:36.559 -->
00:23:39.519So it was like an hour of work.
00:23:39.519 -->
00:23:49.920But, you know, no, as uh because somebody asked recently on one of the blogs, you know, do I read, do I reread my book before I go to my narrator and edit it for audio?
00:23:50.160 -->
00:23:51.279Uh yeah, right?
00:23:52.079 -->
00:23:52.720You can.
00:23:52.720 -->
00:23:57.119You know, I it's a not a bad idea, it's not a bad idea.
00:23:57.119 -->
00:24:00.799And and I have an author or the third book I did for her.
00:24:00.799 -->
00:24:03.680She's like, uh, you know, I'll give it to you next week.
00:24:03.680 -->
00:24:08.880I'm going through it, you know, with a with a uh her thoughts on audio.
00:24:08.880 -->
00:24:09.759What will it sound?
00:24:09.759 -->
00:24:15.200What were some of those sentences, especially those long, beautiful, flowery sentences?
00:24:15.200 -->
00:24:17.119Is there a spot to breathe in there?
00:24:17.119 -->
00:24:18.400I would love it.
00:24:19.119 -->
00:24:20.160You're like, please.
00:24:20.880 -->
00:24:22.880Give me some suggestions on that.
00:24:23.440 -->
00:24:29.440Victoria Lynn, to all authors who might be listening, reality rights, uh, give us a little space to pause.
00:24:29.440 -->
00:24:30.880I think that's such an important point.
00:24:30.880 -->
00:24:43.599And this might also track to the idea that for a lot of books and publishing, whether it's indie or traditional or something in the middle, the goal is often to have the audio release at the same time.
00:24:43.599 -->
00:24:48.559So, you know, this might not be the finished, finished, finished product that you're getting.
00:24:48.559 -->
00:24:55.920So that could be a crucial part of the chain to make sure an author has been really clear about like, well, this should be tight.
00:24:55.920 -->
00:24:56.400Yeah.
00:24:56.559 -->
00:25:00.480And it's interesting how uh this is a new, this is a new trend.
00:25:00.480 -->
00:25:03.440The I've got to have my audiobook out at the same time.
00:25:03.440 -->
00:25:03.839Yeah.
00:25:03.839 -->
00:25:09.119And Elie, I was actually using some of your advice uh from our bookish group.
00:25:09.119 -->
00:25:14.559I was talking to some authors, and I'm like, don't think of it as a release day.
00:25:14.559 -->
00:25:15.279Right.
00:25:15.279 -->
00:25:17.519Think of it as a release month.
00:25:17.519 -->
00:25:17.839Yes.
00:25:17.839 -->
00:25:32.160So uh my one of the mystery authors that I've just recently worked with, um she had just released the book, hired me, and I think we had the audio done a month.
00:25:32.160 -->
00:25:35.119I think she had the audio up and ready a month later.
00:25:35.279 -->
00:25:35.519Yeah.
00:25:35.680 -->
00:25:42.799And she said what she she saw another pickup in the sales, not in the audio sales, but in her book sales.
00:25:42.799 -->
00:25:43.119Yes.
00:25:43.119 -->
00:25:48.400And so it's a lot of people are like, I'm never gonna make Mac my money from doing audiobooks.
00:25:48.400 -->
00:26:03.920It's like, well, maybe not, but it's also another marketing tool for you and something else that you can promote to again reinvigorate maybe one of your best sellers that you know, you're seeing the numbers go down.
00:26:03.920 -->
00:26:06.559What can you do to push him back up again?
00:26:06.559 -->
00:26:07.920So it's just an idea.
00:26:07.920 -->
00:26:08.640Absolutely.
00:26:08.799 -->
00:26:10.000No, I think that's great advice.
00:26:10.000 -->
00:26:16.880Okay, let's circle back to the level of spam that is just inundating our inboxes.
00:26:16.880 -->
00:26:21.599What are some things you think new writers should be leery of?
00:26:21.599 -->
00:26:29.440Because I work with a lot of new writers who are starting out and they might see something that comes in that seems shiny and exciting.
00:26:29.440 -->
00:26:31.119And is it real?
00:26:31.920 -->
00:26:32.559Yeah.
00:26:32.559 -->
00:26:35.920This is uh it's difficult on both sides.
00:26:35.920 -->
00:26:45.759So, you know, I mentioned ACX earlier as a platform that is still probably the most popular place to go out and find a narrator.
00:26:45.759 -->
00:26:52.720That said, narrators, just like authors, you should be able to find them online.
00:26:52.720 -->
00:26:58.480And I do not have a huge, I'm not I'm not, I'm I'm older, I'm not really into social media.
00:26:58.480 -->
00:26:59.920I don't do TikTok.
00:26:59.920 -->
00:27:03.759I know a lot of authors who have found narrators via TikTok.
00:27:03.759 -->
00:27:04.160Yeah.
00:27:04.160 -->
00:27:10.480Um I, you know, but you should be able to find some sort of presence uh associated with the name.
00:27:10.480 -->
00:27:15.759I have a I have a website, you can look at my website, there's an email address, you can contact me.
00:27:15.759 -->
00:27:17.039So that's one thing.
00:27:17.039 -->
00:27:28.480When you're getting um auditions from some, if so you put out your work, you get auditions in AI or virtual voice, does a great first chapter.
00:27:28.480 -->
00:27:32.400They do they are they do, you know, a great three minutes, right?
00:27:32.400 -->
00:27:35.599So you will hear something and be like, this is super three minutes.
00:27:35.599 -->
00:27:39.279It and it's horrible to say it, but it's true, it's true.
00:27:39.279 -->
00:27:40.720It it sounds like a person.
00:27:40.720 -->
00:27:45.759You can choose a voice, you can steal a voice from some famous actor, and you can get your three minutes.
00:27:45.759 -->
00:27:46.400Uh-huh.
00:27:46.400 -->
00:27:57.279But what'll happen is by chapter two, it's pretty obvious that you've got, yeah, that it's the same, the same cadence all over the place.
00:27:57.279 -->
00:28:02.799I did end up doing a book for an author who paid, he got an audition.
00:28:02.799 -->
00:28:05.839He paid, uh actually, he did not end up paying for it.
00:28:05.839 -->
00:28:06.799He proofed it.
00:28:06.799 -->
00:28:09.519So, Ellie, your approach would not work here.
00:28:09.519 -->
00:28:22.000He listened to the whole book and discovered there were missing sentences, discovered that there was acronyms that were mispronounced, and he thought he had hired a real person.
00:28:22.000 -->
00:28:38.400So he came, so he came back to me and we had face-to-face meetings and we what and we came up with a deal because also his book uh they did it was eight, it was over, it was a hundred thousand words, and it was done in eight and a half hours.
00:28:38.400 -->
00:28:41.279So that that is one thing.
00:28:41.279 -->
00:28:44.880So a book is that means it was super fast.
00:28:44.880 -->
00:28:46.559It would be super fast.
00:28:46.559 -->
00:28:53.759From I'm just thinking from an author's standpoint, I think it's almost more, it's almost more difficult.
00:28:53.759 -->
00:29:00.640But you're if you're gonna get a bunch of auditions in, listen, don't, you know, don't lock on to your first your first favorite.
00:29:00.640 -->
00:29:11.759Listen to a bunch of them, and you may start realizing, you'll start just realizing which ones are spam, and you know, within 10 seconds you should be able to throw them out once you get practiced to doing that.
00:29:11.759 -->
00:29:16.960From a narrator side, and I guess from an author's also, I get cold solicitations.
00:29:16.960 -->
00:29:23.200You know, uh, I go and look them up, I look up their work, I see what their sales are.
00:29:23.200 -->
00:29:28.480I got one that looked really real, and then I went and looked, and I was like, well, it's the right name.
00:29:28.480 -->
00:29:35.039But he was the editor, and the last activity on this book was 2016.
00:29:35.039 -->
00:29:40.480And you know, I think uh I I go old school.
00:29:40.480 -->
00:29:43.359If you're gonna hire somebody, insist on a meeting.
00:29:43.359 -->
00:29:48.240Yes, um, you know, uh and that's I I don't know any better way.
00:29:48.240 -->
00:29:58.319There's still a chance they're going to then substitute out their voice, and but it's much less likely once you get to know somebody that they're gonna try and cheat you.
00:29:58.319 -->
00:30:00.960But um but the spam is a problem.
00:30:00.960 -->
00:30:04.000I I changed, I told you I changed my profile.
00:30:04.000 -->
00:30:11.440Um, I added a duet because also really hot today is getting dual dual or duet narration.
00:30:11.440 -->
00:30:14.240And so I wanted to make sure I had a sample.
00:30:14.240 -->
00:30:17.519So for the first time in a long time, I changed my ACX profile.
00:30:17.519 -->
00:30:23.759I added a new sample, and I immediately got 14 spam uh mails.
00:30:23.759 -->
00:30:34.240And it used to be that I would change a sample and I would actually get authors find me because when you change your samples, your profile goes to the top of ACX's list.
00:30:34.240 -->
00:30:38.960So the next person who comes in sees the people who've changed their samples.
00:30:38.960 -->
00:30:40.480Um, and that's not happening.
00:30:40.480 -->
00:30:41.359It's it's broken.
00:30:41.359 -->
00:30:42.720It's very, very broken.
00:30:43.039 -->
00:30:43.599Yeah.
00:30:43.599 -->
00:30:52.079I mean, I do think the the gift of living in the age of AI right now is just a resilience in human connection.
00:30:52.079 -->
00:30:59.039And so I love that your advice is like, yeah, let's go analog, let's get on a Zoom call, let's actually talk so you can see I'm human.
00:30:59.039 -->
00:30:59.519Yeah.
00:31:00.000 -->
00:31:07.440The narrator community um is a wonderful group of people, you know, mostly, right?
00:31:07.440 -->
00:31:12.000But by and large, it's one of the best communities that I that I've been a part of.
00:31:12.000 -->
00:31:15.279And most people are willing to help you.
00:31:15.279 -->
00:31:23.519So when I send people notes, I'm always like, look, even if I'm not your voice, I happy, I know, I I've been an author.
00:31:23.519 -->
00:31:24.799I would like to be an author.
00:31:24.799 -->
00:31:32.559I would love to talk to you and help you find the right place for you and and work through this because it is, it's daunting.
00:31:32.559 -->
00:31:37.440Any new, any new area you go into, there's a lot of learning to be done.
00:31:37.680 -->
00:31:39.279Yeah, it's a steep learning curve.
00:31:39.279 -->
00:31:48.000Okay, let's talk about some of the varying styles of books that you've narrated over the last couple of years, because it's the gamut now, right?
00:31:48.000 -->
00:31:53.039But do you have a favorite genre or when you're actively looking for new projects?
00:31:53.039 -->
00:31:56.720Do you have like your go-to sweet spots?
00:31:57.519 -->
00:32:06.720So, you know, um, when I started this, I thought that romance, again, romance is one of the it's the largest market segment, right?
00:32:06.720 -->
00:32:13.039And I figured that that was going to be the area that I would be getting, you know, most of my work from.
00:32:13.039 -->
00:32:16.960And as it is, I've actually done one romance series.
00:32:16.960 -->
00:32:21.759It turns out my first series that I stumbled into was science fiction.
00:32:21.759 -->
00:32:26.559And science fiction, I think it's something I love doing science fiction.
00:32:26.559 -->
00:32:27.839It was an action adventure.
00:32:27.839 -->
00:32:32.160It was a little bloodier than the stuff that I prefer to read.
00:32:32.160 -->
00:32:32.799Right.
00:32:32.799 -->
00:32:35.200But I had so much fun.
00:32:35.200 -->
00:33:06.960And again, the the acting challenges in science fiction, every one of those books had something crazy happening, whether it was huge crowd scenes, you know, fighting the eight-foot-tall orcs, uh, translating gladiator lemurs through wrist translators, um, hive minds taking over bodies, and but you have to make sure the character still sounds like themselves, but that the reader also knows they've been taken over.
00:33:06.960 -->
00:33:10.480So I guess, I mean, I I really like the science fiction.
00:33:10.480 -->
00:33:14.720And then mystery is probably the other kind of standby.
00:33:14.720 -->
00:33:17.519And a lot of times you'll have large casts for that.
00:33:17.519 -->
00:33:35.200And I think one of the sweet spots for me is that I do have a really broad vocal range, which makes me for a solo narrator a good choice because I can do male voices pretty darn well, and I can do female voices pretty darn well.
00:33:35.200 -->
00:33:42.720And not every male voice is deep and gravelly, and not every female voice is sweet and high.
00:33:42.720 -->
00:33:53.200There's it, but there's different ways that we make our voices that have nothing to do with where on the scale they are, but having that versatility, it really does help.
00:33:53.519 -->
00:34:10.719Have you ever had an image in your mind or a character and how you think they sound, kind of going back to your client who was like, oh no, he doesn't sound like this, where you're sure in reading it that you're like, oh, this is that character, and then you are the author's like, no, that's not that character at all.
00:34:11.039 -->
00:34:19.360So part of the prep, the prep packet that I mentioned before for people who haven't done it before, is casting your own characters, right?
00:34:19.360 -->
00:34:19.840Yeah.
00:34:19.840 -->
00:34:26.079As the narrator, I mean, I've had authors who are like, oh no, whatever you whatever you want, just do whatever you want.
00:34:26.079 -->
00:34:27.119I'm like, okay.
00:34:27.119 -->
00:34:28.800Okay, you're living with it.
00:34:28.800 -->
00:34:36.079But for the but the main characters, again, my first author was one of the best, and he actually sent me pictures.
00:34:36.079 -->
00:34:42.719And he sent me pictures, he sent me suggestions of uh actors.
00:34:42.719 -->
00:34:52.000Um, there was a main character that I didn't he didn't tell me much about him, and so I went out and found who I thought he sounded like.
00:34:52.000 -->
00:34:55.920Important point we are not impersonators, right?
00:34:55.920 -->
00:34:59.440So you tell me nobody knows what's going on in my head.
00:34:59.440 -->
00:35:10.800So if it's uh what is what is the oh uh I had a couple Owens, is it not Jeff Owens, the uh there's an actor Owen Wilson?
00:35:10.800 -->
00:35:13.440Owen Wilson, okay, yeah, yeah.
00:35:13.440 -->
00:35:18.400But I just nobody knows that Owen Wilson is in my head when I'm doing this character.
00:35:18.400 -->
00:35:30.079But he's got you know, he's got the nose and he's got the cadence, and so the idea is not that we're gonna be able to make the I'm not gonna be able to make it sound like Sandra Bullock.
00:35:30.079 -->
00:35:30.400Right.
00:35:30.400 -->
00:35:45.199However, if I know that Sandra Bullock is who you see in your mind when your character is talking, that that does help me because it's a lot of it is again about the cadence or about the uh the accents and how they speak.
00:35:45.199 -->
00:35:50.320So in nonfiction work, whenever possible, I always listen to the author.
00:35:50.320 -->
00:36:01.920I find a YouTube video or something of the author speaking so that I know how does it, you know, how or I have a meeting with them like this, and I so I can hear how they speak.
00:36:01.920 -->
00:36:06.079Because they're gonna like listening to people who speak like them.
00:36:06.320 -->
00:36:07.199That's such a good point.
00:36:07.199 -->
00:36:11.760No, I hadn't even thought about that, but you really do have to have the entire cast separated.
00:36:11.760 -->
00:36:15.920And then on that note, have you ever gotten confused in terms of voices?
00:36:15.920 -->
00:36:18.239Like, I don't know how you would keep them all straight.
00:36:18.480 -->
00:36:21.199Yeah, so there's there's uh tricks for that.
00:36:21.199 -->
00:36:29.360But basically, what I do when I start recording, so you know, you've approved our your first 15 and we start recording the book.
00:36:29.360 -->
00:36:36.000Sometimes I'll do it ahead of time, or I'll do the main characters ahead of time, and then the sub-voices I'll do on the fly.
00:36:36.000 -->
00:36:38.079But I have a video file.
00:36:38.079 -->
00:36:45.440So I have an uh this is the computer I use um for uh usually all this computer has on it is my audio files.
00:36:45.440 -->
00:36:49.039So I have an audio file that I keep open that are voice matches.
00:36:49.039 -->
00:37:02.639And whenever I get to a new character, I will grab a snippet of their voice and I drop it into my voice file because I have had you know books in number eight.
00:37:02.639 -->
00:37:11.199You've probably, Ellie, you've probably gone and grabbed a character from book number three and had him show up in book number eight as a love interest or something.
00:37:11.199 -->
00:37:13.599I'd it happens.
00:37:13.599 -->
00:37:23.679So having these audio files, and I have one for for every book, and I have folders for every series so that I can find them, and it helps me.
00:37:23.679 -->
00:37:27.679Also, I get to turn it off and on again or press pause.
00:37:27.679 -->
00:37:55.440So if I'm about to move from if I'm about to move from my main character, who always sounds like me, by the way, I'm about to move my main character into the Russian, the Russian mafioso, I might pause and take a breath and then go and listen to what the Russian mafioso sounded like last time I spoke him, or the first time I spoke him, and put myself into that.
00:37:55.440 -->
00:37:58.320So you can always pause and get now.
00:37:58.320 -->
00:38:02.079Again, I'm paid per finished hours, so I don't want to be doing a lot of that.
00:38:02.079 -->
00:38:11.599But again, when we're switching chapters, when we're switching characters, uh, we talked earlier about, you know, how you how much time you spend.
00:38:11.599 -->
00:38:14.400I always try and end at the end of a chapter.
00:38:14.400 -->
00:38:28.079You've I'm sure you've listened to audiobooks where like in the middle of a chapter, something weird happens, the sound drops or raises, or so I always try and find a really good uh stopping place.
00:38:28.079 -->
00:38:33.840And the same thing with those pickups, getting them in so that you it doesn't jar the reader.
00:38:33.840 -->
00:38:41.519Because the whole goal is to get the reader immersed in the book the same way they might be as if they were reading a print copy.
00:38:42.079 -->
00:38:43.360Yeah, love it.
00:38:43.360 -->
00:38:50.079Um okay, well, before we wrap up, if there are new authors who want to work with you, like how do they reach out to you?
00:38:50.079 -->
00:38:51.119Do they come to your website?
00:38:51.119 -->
00:38:52.639We'll put it in the show notes.
00:38:52.639 -->
00:38:53.199Yeah.
00:38:53.440 -->
00:38:57.119My so my website is the best place to reach out to me.
00:38:57.119 -->
00:39:01.280I have a form, but I also have my email right on there.
00:39:01.280 -->
00:39:03.760And so I I do check that.
00:39:03.760 -->
00:39:17.199And again, uh, whether it's me or whether it's another narrator, don't be afraid to reach out and just have a conversation and ask the ask the questions because we love talking about our audiobooks.
00:39:17.199 -->
00:39:26.000And we have resources for you as a new author on what you need to know before you before you sign any any contracts.
00:39:26.000 -->
00:39:27.440I think that's so critical.
00:39:27.599 -->
00:39:31.840Okay, so um, I think before we sign off, we should have a little fun.
00:39:31.840 -->
00:39:38.320So normally when the tech guy and I sign off, we say um something like until next time.
00:39:38.320 -->
00:39:47.039But I would love it if you could do an until next time that would be romance and then mystery.
00:39:47.039 -->
00:39:47.840Oh gosh.
00:39:47.840 -->
00:39:48.320Okay.
00:39:48.320 -->
00:39:49.760Okay, I'll put you on the spot.
00:39:49.760 -->
00:39:50.800Dun, dun, dun.
00:39:50.800 -->
00:39:51.199Okay.
00:39:51.280 -->
00:39:53.440There's a lot of body work in narration too.
00:39:53.440 -->
00:39:55.840It really, there really is.
00:39:55.840 -->
00:40:02.480So as a romance, I might be like until next time.
00:40:02.480 -->
00:40:05.039I love it.
00:40:05.039 -->
00:40:07.440Until next time, we're what's the other one?
00:40:07.440 -->
00:40:10.159Um Mystery, dark thriller.
00:40:10.159 -->
00:40:12.239Until next time.
00:40:14.159 -->
00:40:16.719There you have it, Victoria Lynn Arbor.
00:40:16.719 -->
00:40:18.079Thanks so much for being my guest.
00:40:18.079 -->
00:40:23.440I always learned so much from you about just audio that I don't know myself, which is incredible.
00:40:23.679 -->
00:40:24.719Oh, Ellie, thank you.
00:40:24.719 -->
00:40:26.159And thank you so much for having me.
00:40:26.159 -->
00:40:34.159It's really uh I've had a chance to listen to some of your other podcasts and you know, learning so much as an author as well.
00:40:34.159 -->
00:40:35.920So I appreciate you.
00:40:35.920 -->
00:40:36.800Same.
00:40:36.800 -->
00:40:40.559All right, I'll do my bad until next time.
00:40:40.559 -->
00:40:43.280Until next time.
