Finding Alignment: How Therapy Transforms Lives and Communities

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And I remember coming here and I remember, you know, one of my legs was shorter than the other and I'm like I would have never known that, right, right.
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But, it's education.
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Welcome to Posture and Purpose, where both healing and community come together.
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Make sure to subscribe on Apple, Spotify and YouTube.
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Let's get into this episode with Dr Michelle Carr-Frank.
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Hello and welcome to today's episode of Posture and Purpose.
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I am Dr Michelle Carr-Frank, and joining me today is Mr Devin Brown with Brown Counseling and Company.
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Mr Brown is a certified mental health practitioner in Lafayette, louisiana.
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He is someone who helps others navigate the invisible weight we often carry.
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I am thrilled to have him on the show today because he is not only an excellent therapist, he is also a wonderful person that I am proud to call a friend.
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Oh, thank you so welcome and thank you for joining us.
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Thank you, I'm excited to be here.
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I'm so glad you were able to be here.
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So, what actually first drew you to a career in counseling?
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Well, it really starts when I was in middle school.
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So in middle school I still remember this story there was a girl who was really struggling with life.
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And now, when I was in middle school, it was like 1995, 98.
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And I remember one day she said she was cutting herself and all I can think about in that moment was, like what can I do to make her laugh?
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Like what can I do to like, turn this around?
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Almost like it was like a personal journey, that I needed to do this or that I could help.
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And I remember the next time she's talked about suicide, and at that time it wasn't so big like it is now, where you need to.
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You know, go run and tell the teacher.
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All I knew was to try to make her spirits be lifted and try to tell her like you have a purpose.
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No, you can't do this.
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And I remember that was the first time I had the spark of knowing like you're called to help people.
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And so then I went through this journey of I'm gonna, I'm gonna help people, and my parents told me that I needed to be a doctor.
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And so I was gonna be a doctor.
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And in high school we had this class and it was called a reality education about life, called real.
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And I remember this teacher her name is Kathy Roy.
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She looked at me and she said why are you gonna be to be a doctor?
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I was like, because my parents told me to.
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And she was like what do you want to be?
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I was like I want to be a therapist, I want to help people.
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And that is where all of this got started.
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So that has been a calling for you, because not everyone in middle school feels that calling or hears that calling at such a young age.
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So how has this journey shaped you as a person and who you are today?
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Well, you know, I think it's just kind of like pastoring, like talking, like just talking to anybody.
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When I'm talking to somebody and they're bringing up stories or they're bringing up what they, what they're struggling with, so many times we're talking to ourselves as well.
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So it's those.
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Okay, you need to set those boundaries.
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And in my head I'm like I also need to set my own boundaries.
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Interesting, right, but going through this, I always knew I wanted.
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I've always had a larger than life personality and I always knew I want to own my own practice.
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So even when I was younger, that was in the back of my head.
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Another interesting little tidbit is that when I was in grad school, I said Lord, I am never going to be an addiction counselor.
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And he laughed.
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And so I'm in there and I'm like I just want to run my own practice and I ended up getting introduced to addiction counseling and kind of fell in love with it.
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One of the reasons why was some of my cohort was only helping geriatrics, or only helping, you know, in the school system.
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And when you help someone in addiction or I was working in an intensive outpatient I got to experience so many different issues being thrown at me, and one that I almost accelerated in my learning.
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So in one situation you may be dealing with somebody with intense grief, but in the next situation you're dealing with anxiety and depression, but the next situation you're dealing with somebody literally still detoxing and struggling with drugs.
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And so in this journey, as I call life, of being a counselor, still I had my goal of I want to own a practice, which I do now, which I'm very thankful for.
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But that second part is if we're not developing ourself and that's what they teach us in grad school and, I'm sure, like in school for you if you're not developing yourself, how can you keep helping your clients?
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That's why they call it a practice that is exactly right.
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That's why they call it a practice.
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That is exactly right.
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I think.
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If we're not doing self-reflection and for us to protect the population of people that we're working with, we have to do continuing education classes year-round and that's just all to help our people.
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Yes, stay informed, because the people that will benefit from it are our patients.
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Absolutely, and you know that.
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And sometimes they ask some questions.
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Sometimes they're like well, do you do this?
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Are?
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Or our patients?
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Absolutely, and you know that.
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And sometimes they ask some questions.
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Sometimes they're like well, do you do this, Are you in therapy?
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I'm like I actually am who adjusts you, Dr.
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Carr, Believe me they ask so totally understand and in your experience, what do you find throws people out of alignment mentally most often?
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What have you seen most often?
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Man.
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So many things.
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If I can be honest, I think right now in our world, things just keep changing.
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If you look at the way social media is, it's here, it's present, it's not really going anywhere.
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But the younger social media is hitting a younger age group and I think I love the no, it was a Netflix show.
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The love the the ntv.
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Uh, no, it was a netflix show.
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Um, the social dilemma and what it was saying was our brains were not computed to hit all this information so fast and people are wanting information quicker than ever.
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You know, it used to be reels, and reels were like three minutes.
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Our youtube videos were 30 minutes.
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Then it went so real and now it's like if it's not in three seconds I don't want to watch it.
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We're swiping, and then you think about that.
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That's on dating apps, it's almost everywhere.
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One way is social media, because social media has a lot of comparison.
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It doesn't matter who you are.
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You can be an adult, you can be a well, I mean, there's anxiety, there's depression, so in trauma, that's definitely one, but just boundaries, I think.
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I think when you're looking at TV, when you're looking at the modern family, people really aren't showing you how to set a boundary with a family member or how to set a boundary with a coworker, and so we're reacting off of our trauma, we're reacting out of our anxiety, and we're not knowing how to do this in a healthy way of expressing ourselves, and that's one thing that really throws people out of alignment.
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And that has I mean it's just exploded over the last several years.
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How long have you been practicing?
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Now it's been over 10 years, okay, so you have really seen that change from what you saw probably in school until now, especially with the youth.
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Yeah, 100%.
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And if someone that might be listening today or right now is thinking I'm always stressed out, but that's normal, how could they possibly tell the difference between everyday stress, like work and time limits and things like that, and when something needs some deeper attention to an issue?
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I think I like to tell people mindset is everything.
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You know.
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We have the power of getting up and using our thoughts and our words and putting our thoughts in alignment.
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So, yeah, I could be having 80 things, as I have these journals that I created.
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Yeah, I can have 80 things going wrong, but even like in the journal, I can list five things I'm grateful for each day.
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That helps so much.
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And there was a study that was done that said depression and anxiety.
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No, depression and gratitude cannot be in the brain at the same time.
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So you're either in that one moment thinking about your depressive thoughts or you're switching over to your gratitude.
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Now it can keep vacillating, but that's what we're trying to teach people is okay, put your brain in that right thought pattern.
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Now I forgot the question.
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No, that's okay.
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Because now I forgot the question?
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Because that is something I think people need to hear.
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I agree.
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Oh, the normal everyday stress.
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I think if someone's able to bounce back off their stress of what they're dealing with or their down moments, then you're probably fine.
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I also want to say I think counseling is for everybody.
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There are marriages that just need to tune up.
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It doesn't mean that your marriage is falling apart.
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There are just some thoughts you may have that you just want to talk to someone outside of your friend circle that can give you an unbiased opinion.
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That is what counseling is for.
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And then I like to say, in our practice, one of the models that I have is that we're here to help elevate you to your next best level.
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Now the second part of your question is if you're having a lot of stress, depression, a lot of bad thoughts, and it's compounding on itself, it's getting to where your body is stressing out.
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It's getting to where now you're talking about the negativity and you can't get yourself out of it.
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That's when call a practitioner.
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Call Devin Brown.
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Call Devin Brown, call our office, call Brown Counseling Exactly.
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And what do you see?
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I was going to say what do you see, mostly in young people?
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I know social media is out there and we all realize that, but what are some other issues that you've seen in the youth community that parents or elders may not be aware of?
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I think, 100% identity issues, you know, and to the parents that are listening.
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I've talked to a lot of parents and the parents that have a great handle on their kids.
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I love that.
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The parents that don't have a great handle on the kids Okay, I got a solution for you.
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I think, no matter what, having that person, that young person, have somebody to talk to that is a licensed professional can always be a solution, because if you're my parent, I still may not feel comfortable telling you I'm being bullied at school, or it may not be a bullying where I can identify it.
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Somebody can just start making little comments and what that's starting to do, especially with the young people, is it's planting seeds in them and they're not sprouting, maybe in that moment, but they're starting to sprout so they start to want to change their hair color.
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So I don't want to dress different.
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But also, if we're being honest, what's out there, too, is is an access to pornography and access to.
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If you're looking at Snapchat, it's everywhere.
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It's everywhere.
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It's so true.
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And you know one?
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One thing I tell parents and I sometimes tell the kid is in Snapchat there's an app that someone else on the other side can get your information or get your videos or your pictures and save it and you have no idea.
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So you're thinking you're sending something consenting and really they can keep it in store and you have no idea.
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So it's just, I think in the young people it's a lot that's going on.
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Another thing that I was watching a show I think it was Jenny and George, I don't remember.
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It was a long time ago, but it helped me because when I was watching it and I think it was on the background of the TV, this girl was burning her inner thigh.
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And so we think, especially when I was growing up and our books was a lot of cutting, we think, especially when I was growing up and our books was a lot of cutting, but now the cutting has expanded to burning and just other ways, and what that is is I don't feel in control.
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So what can I do to make myself feel in control?
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And so when I'm cutting, I'm really just trying to take control.
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I'm trying to feel something because of everything that's going on in my household or everything that's going on at school or just within my body.
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It's control, yeah, and what about eating disorders?
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Do you work with a lot of eating disorders, either in young people or adults?
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I don't, our practice doesn't Usually.
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When I worked at a treatment center before which I love I got so much experience in that way you know there were a few things that we did we would say like, hey, you can't look at the scale, look at us, because if you look at that scale now, you're hyper-focused on what that number is.
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Another thing that we always say, even in our practice, is like get a dietician or get a nurse with them, because we can only really hit on the clinical.
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But eating disorders has such a medical side of that as well that you really kind of need the combination of two if you want to see the success of someone.
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Okay, well, that's good to know.
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It is a lot about control, but it affects the medical side of it as well, so that's very good to learn.
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Absolutely.
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And so what role do you feel that our community plays in a person's overall mental well-being?
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Our community, whether it be here, specifically, in Lafayette or Louisiana, or elsewhere, Well, I think one thing Lafayette and Louisiana is doing great is having so many therapists.
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We have a lot of therapists to choose from which you know.
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When somebody comes to me and I get this question very often I'm having problems with my therapist, what do I do?
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The first thing I don't tell anybody to do is just, oh, just quit.
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You may not be a good fit, but my philosophy now, this is just me.
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This is not textbook, but my philosophy is sometimes, um, people are trying to run away from their problems and so if I can get you to go confront that therapist and just say, hey, here's what I'm seeing and this has happened to me multiple times, here's what I'm having an issue with you with, and a lot of times it's like, oh, that wasn't my intention with that, but that becomes such a healing moment it can be.
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Option one is it can be a healing moment within that client and that therapist.
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Option two the therapist doesn't see it or just does not work out, and now that client has power really to leave and go find somebody that will work well with them.
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Second thing is that with therapists therapists we're all so different.
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So we have some therapists who love trauma, some therapists who have emdr, some therapists that are more behavioral, some therapists that are more subconscious.
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We all have a different way that we approach the world in our in our sessions.
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So one thing I think our community is doing so well is having so many therapists at people's availability.
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I also think, too, like we're making ourselves known in the community.
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We're going to the schools, we're getting out there.
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Yeah, you're not hiding in an office.
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It used to be such a stigma and now it's more.
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I don't want want to say relaxed, but it's more accepted and and encouraged and accessible, exactly so but and and at the same time, I think we also um, I think it could be just kind of like what I just said to the parents.
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I think even really promoting there still is a stigma out there.
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So, hey, you still can, you still can go to therapy.
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And I think one thing we can all do is just like even here hey, go get an adjustment, go see what it's like.
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You hear things from people.
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So you're like I don't really know how to do that.
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Right, but you have no idea what it actually is like for yourself.
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And I remember coming here and I remember one of my legs was shorter than the other and I'm like I would have never known that.
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Right, right.
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But it's education, absolutely.
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And if you can come in and have that introductory session, a lot of times you fall in love because now you're starting to give yourself power and now you have a story.
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Everybody's story has power.
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Exactly, I love that Everyone's story has power.
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So what about you spoke about identity?
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Exactly, I love that Everyone's story has power.
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So what about you spoke about identity?
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What?
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About sexual identity, especially in the good old South of.
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Louisiana, we know you see, it's laughable because it's just still such an issue Do you work with people.
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Do you work with people, absolutely?
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You know it's not an easy 30 second response, but it is something where I always want to start with trauma and look at like, hey, what's going on?
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And they have sexual issues and have sexual identity.
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A lot of people come in and are confused.
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Come in and are confused.
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A lot of people have also been beat down so much by people judging them that they come in and they also think the therapist is gonna judge them.
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And so they come in and they're ready to.
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They're basically on guard and in this it's a kind of diffuse.
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A lot of that I know for me.
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A lot of times I said what are you here for?
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What do you want to talk about?
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And if it's about your spousal issues, okay, well, let's talk about your spousal issues.
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As a therapist, one of our ethics says that we can't judge someone and we also can't make someone change.
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Even religions, make someone change their identity.
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We're just here to be a sounding board and I think let me just add this in here a lot of people think that therapists give advice and we actually do not.
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Our job is to help you reflect the pros and cons of a situation and help you make some of the best guided decisions unbiased a hundred percent.
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Another thing I tell people is when they usually come to therapy and they're confused, I say take some cars, put them all on different train tracks, right, and all we're doing is taking one car at a time and trying to help you think about it in the right way.
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And I think that's the same thing even with somebody with even just wanting to be affirmed in their sexual identity and needing help, just like what we said earlier.
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They may need help to set boundaries with family or to come out to people or to put language for something.
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But you know, sometimes when we are talking about trauma, I do see some people come in and they've been abused and now they are confused or they have been even in their relationship.
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Now Maybe they're in that same sex relationship and they still have trauma that's coming up.
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I'm in the philosophy that everybody has trauma and if you come to my office I will fight it to the death.
00:18:36.894 --> 00:18:37.556
We are human.
00:18:37.957 --> 00:18:38.557
Exactly.
00:18:38.557 --> 00:18:50.830
But I say this as your trauma, someone's trauma may be I was molested when I was younger and somebody else's trauma may be my mom didn't talk to me a lot when I was younger.
00:18:50.830 --> 00:19:02.029
It's still trauma and it still affects us, and I have a lot of people that shame their self and say, well, my trauma isn't like them and it's like no, no, but this is still your story.
00:19:02.029 --> 00:19:21.696
So when you come to our office and not just our office, anyone's office, right, like I said, we may not be the best fit for you when you come in office, all we're trying to do is help you empower your story and what's going great in your life right now, what's not going great in your life right now, and how do we get you there, how do we elevate you to the best thinking?
00:19:21.817 --> 00:19:30.851
There you go Work towards some type of resolution for you, absolutely yeah, okay, so tell us a little bit about your journals for you.
00:19:30.871 --> 00:19:31.593
Absolutely, yeah.
00:19:31.593 --> 00:19:34.459
Okay, so tell us a little bit about your journals.
00:19:34.459 --> 00:19:35.662
Awesome, I love that.
00:19:35.662 --> 00:19:36.884
So let me tell you how it started.
00:19:36.923 --> 00:19:37.726
I was in this building the best.
00:19:37.865 --> 00:19:38.627
It is the best.
00:19:38.627 --> 00:19:47.894
I kept giving people homework and the homework was hey, I need you to journal just some gratitude or positive affirmations.
00:19:47.894 --> 00:19:51.032
You know you can write them on the wall and you can write them on post-it notes.
00:19:51.032 --> 00:19:54.124
But, like I'm saying, just go on amazon and go look for something.
00:19:54.124 --> 00:20:04.297
And after saying that for like the hundredth time and I'm such an entrepreneur, entrepreneur, sorry I just started digging into what is it like to create a journal.
00:20:04.297 --> 00:20:06.020
And so that's what I did.
00:20:06.020 --> 00:20:12.721
I created a journal for women, a journal for men and a journal, a men and a journal, a prayer journal, and then a blank journal.
00:20:12.721 --> 00:20:18.574
The goal is to give you prompts, because most people say, well, I don't know where to start.
00:20:18.574 --> 00:20:20.515
It's the number one question.
00:20:20.515 --> 00:20:23.027
So the prompts have you know?
00:20:23.027 --> 00:20:26.376
What am I grateful for, what are my affirmations?
00:20:26.549 --> 00:20:32.556
In the women's journal and what I did too is I polled women, I polled men and said what are something you're looking for.
00:20:32.556 --> 00:20:38.022
So in the women's journal it says what do you like about yourself today?
00:20:38.022 --> 00:20:40.217
And then it has a little feelings check.
00:20:40.217 --> 00:20:43.861
I feel I need my inspiration of the day, my quote of the day.
00:20:43.861 --> 00:20:49.813
In the men's journal it's broken down to morning and night, the men try to solve every problem.
00:20:49.813 --> 00:20:52.900
Uh, they want a billion dollars in one day and they can't.
00:20:52.900 --> 00:20:57.643
So I have to slow them down and say what were your small wins of the day?
00:20:57.643 --> 00:21:01.136
That's all we need you to figure out today, and the prayer journal just helps.
00:21:01.136 --> 00:21:11.575
You have the acts prayer model on the back and in that front, just a devotional um and um, a devotional, a scripture of the day and some notes and then who do you want to pray for?
00:21:11.575 --> 00:21:16.794
So basically, they're all guided, except the blank one for people who are like I already know how to journal.
00:21:16.794 --> 00:21:21.595
Well, I have a blank one for you, um, and they're on my website and they're also on amazon.
00:21:21.816 --> 00:21:23.199
Okay, that's what I was gonna ask.
00:21:23.199 --> 00:21:24.570
And how could they find what?
00:21:24.570 --> 00:21:26.415
What is the name they would look under on Amazon?
00:21:26.476 --> 00:21:34.721
It's browncounselingbiz, and if you actually do a hyperlink to shop or you can just go to the shop portion, it links them all to Amazon.
00:21:35.123 --> 00:21:35.844
Okay, perfect.
00:21:35.844 --> 00:21:39.410
Well, I know some of our listeners will definitely be doing that today.
00:21:39.529 --> 00:21:40.594
Please check them out, guys.
00:21:40.594 --> 00:21:41.076
Thank you.
00:21:41.277 --> 00:21:48.660
Yes, and what can a loved one do I'm sure you hear this a lot if they know that someone is struggling?
00:21:48.660 --> 00:21:50.891
What are the first steps?
00:21:50.891 --> 00:21:58.931
Because oftentimes loved ones, family members, they want to help so sincerely in a time of crisis.
00:21:58.931 --> 00:22:10.990
But the loved ones sometimes they're really good at critiquing or criticizing when that person is down and out, at their lowest point.
00:22:10.990 --> 00:22:17.932
They don't need criticism, they need love, they need acceptance, they need care, they need concern.
00:22:17.932 --> 00:22:24.790
So what would be the first step a family member can gently take if someone they know is struggling?
00:22:26.614 --> 00:22:32.503
They probably don't want to hear this, but my, my suggestion is come sit in a therapy session for yourself.
00:22:33.490 --> 00:22:37.221
Because, what you need to learn is what's going on with you.
00:22:37.221 --> 00:22:49.613
First, if you are having an overreaction to maybe some of their depressed moments or their sad moments, then you're nine times out of 10, you're not going to have the right approach.
00:22:49.613 --> 00:22:58.420
So we need to help you get the right approach and we need to help you understand yourself, which is also a bonus when you can say, hey, I'm already in therapy.
00:22:58.420 --> 00:23:06.042
Um, a second thing is, especially if it's like addiction, I usually tell people it has to be someone else's choice.
00:23:06.042 --> 00:23:15.155
And if they're dragged dragged especially for me in the way I approach things hey, I'm not just sitting in a session for an hour with you and we're just not saying anything.
00:23:15.155 --> 00:23:19.300
You know this is different if it's a grief situation you just lost somebody, you need that time.
00:23:19.300 --> 00:23:28.980
Sure, we'll create that space, but for me, I don't love people being drug into therapy and now we're sitting there and they're just so unhappy you can't be productive either.
00:23:28.980 --> 00:23:33.835
Exactly Now, some therapists that's their specialty, it's just not mine.
00:23:34.670 --> 00:23:44.824
So I usually especially when it comes to addiction I usually would tell family members hey, here's a business card, or you give them the tool and when they're ready they will call.
00:23:44.824 --> 00:23:46.455
Now, this is a minor.
00:23:46.455 --> 00:23:48.257
This is a whole different conversation.
00:23:48.257 --> 00:23:59.780
A minor hey, you may sit in that session, that first session with them, um, and, and depending on what's going on is depending how the therapist can say, here's some warning signs or something to look for.
00:23:59.780 --> 00:24:03.123
Maybe here's how it approached is, here's the questions I would ask.
00:24:03.123 --> 00:24:08.798
So if you also call brown counseling and you get, you'll get me on the phone sometimes.
00:24:08.798 --> 00:24:11.824
Sometimes I feel like it's just a service I want to provide.
00:24:11.824 --> 00:24:13.557
I will help someone struggling.
00:24:13.557 --> 00:24:21.576
If our business is not the next step for you, I'll help somebody say like, hey, this is great people to call, they're probably your next step.
00:24:21.809 --> 00:24:23.025
Point them in the right direction.
00:24:23.268 --> 00:24:23.390
Yeah.
00:24:23.730 --> 00:24:31.644
And how do you see the conversation around either mental health or addiction or identity issues changing in the next five to 10 years?
00:24:32.891 --> 00:24:36.509
I think that we're doing such a great job already in social media.
00:24:36.509 --> 00:24:46.184
I think some of the influencers yes, they may be trying to get you to buy clothes, but some of them are being so open about their journey.
00:24:46.184 --> 00:24:55.001
I think some of the TV shows are becoming more open about their journey and I think also TV shows are so welcoming to therapists.
00:24:55.001 --> 00:25:06.265
Now I see that across churches, I see that just the epidemic is starting to get bigger to where, hey, mental health, take care of your mental health.
00:25:06.265 --> 00:25:16.538
So I think now we're all starting to have conversations and this next step, this next part, is that we're going to start having conversations around the dinner table hopefully, you know.
00:25:16.538 --> 00:25:25.811
But I think that in the next five years, the more we're open to have these conversations, the more it will spread and people will start taking care of themselves.
00:25:26.112 --> 00:25:27.696
And it starts from within, absolutely.
00:25:27.696 --> 00:25:32.856
You have to recognize what you can be grateful for and when you need help as well.
00:25:33.109 --> 00:25:35.159
That's the journal Come on, exactly.
00:25:35.692 --> 00:25:42.354
And my next point was how can our listeners find you if they or a loved one possibly need your services?
00:25:42.354 --> 00:25:45.217
I know you said your website Absolutely, but where's your office located?
00:25:45.470 --> 00:25:49.458
So my office is 100 Sable Palms Row, suite one.
00:25:49.458 --> 00:26:17.240
Um, we are in Youngsville, so right across from a mesh's donuts in Youngsville and the roundabout, um, and we also offer virtual sessions to anybody who is in Louisiana, um, so especially if you're in Baton Rouge or if you're in new Orleans, um, we Blue Cross, blue Shield, and there's more than one of us in the office and we primarily do trauma, and Spencer right now is one of our counselors who is EMDR trained, part one, so that's even better.
00:26:17.260 --> 00:26:17.782
What does that mean?
00:26:18.430 --> 00:26:22.118
So EMDR is basically a step up of trauma counseling.
00:26:22.118 --> 00:26:24.163
I will sometimes do talk therapy.
00:26:24.163 --> 00:26:44.575
He will use basically something that's helping him use a bilateral stimulation and what that's doing is it can sometimes I was going to say jolt, but it can sometimes help you identify repressed memories that's happened to you in the past and some of those false beliefs have got you to where you are now.
00:26:44.895 --> 00:26:52.398
And so, mr Brown, my last question is how do you maintain your posture while pursuing your purpose in life?
00:26:53.402 --> 00:26:54.085
I think two things.
00:26:54.085 --> 00:26:59.838
The first thing, I think, is accountability and the second thing I think is, um, practicing what I preach.
00:26:59.838 --> 00:27:13.023
So I am in therapy now I'm actually in EMDR therapy, um but I'm in therapy now and there's just always something you can talk about and process and, especially as I'm helping clients, make sure I'm in therapy now and there's just always something you can talk about and process and, especially as I'm helping clients, make sure I'm taking care of myself.
00:27:13.023 --> 00:27:19.540
And then also have people that I keep, a good circle of people around me that can help me be accountable.
00:27:19.540 --> 00:27:32.438
If they see me maybe having a bad day or drifting off, they're there to help, kind of come in and be a second family, as well as hanging out with my family and making sure that I don't just consume myself with business.
00:27:33.279 --> 00:27:33.942
That is great.
00:27:33.942 --> 00:27:35.573
Well, thank you so much for being here.
00:27:35.593 --> 00:27:36.434
Thanks for having me.
00:27:36.536 --> 00:27:37.037
Thank you.
00:27:37.037 --> 00:27:41.480
Until next time, sit up straight, stay happy, stay healthy and stay adjusted.
00:27:41.942 --> 00:27:46.297
Thanks for listening to the Posture and Purpose podcast with Dr Michelle Carr-Frank.
00:27:46.297 --> 00:27:52.338
Make sure to subscribe on YouTube, Spotify and Apple podcasts Until next time.