Beyond the data: art meets climate at the edge of the world

WEBVTT
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- Hello, and welcome to the Physics World Stories
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- podcast. I'm Andre Glesser. And in this episode,
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- we're gonna be exploring the creative ways that
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- people are looking at the climate emergency.
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- It's a little bit of a departure for
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- us on the podcast, but I hope you'll
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- stay with us because we are, after all,
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- all parts of this planet, which is changing
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- as a result of the climate. Of course,
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- there's a lot of physics involved in that,
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- but what we're looking at in this episode
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- is the human reaction to it.
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- We'll hear later in the podcast
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- from a composer,
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- who's created a video game along with music
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- like this, which enables people
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- to spend ten minutes in a narrative exploring
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- a very particular story, which began with the
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- composer's child sitting in the car and exclaiming
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- their despair
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- at the climate emergency.
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- That's to come later in the podcast. But
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- first, we'll hear from a man who's just
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- returned from a 600
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- kilometer performance tour in the Arctic borderlands,
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- sometimes
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- dressed as a reindeer.
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- Hello. My name is Tom Bailey, and I'm
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- a Bristol based,
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- theater maker and director.
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- And I make work through a company called
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- Mechanical.
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- And for several years now, the company's been
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- focused on creating work about,
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- and with the natural world,
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- exploring what it means to live on a
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- changing planet and
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- exploring kind
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- of creative questions about engaging with the more
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- than human,
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- on the planet.
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- So asking a a question, I suppose, is
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- theater for or with just humans, or can
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- it be made
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- with and in and about,
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- more than humans as well? And so so
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- really
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- trying
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- to, I guess, respond to questions about climate
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- change, but try not
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- to continue the kind of, like, I suppose
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- or explore apocalypse scenario
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- or data heavy
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- kind of questions about climate change that tend
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- to put audiences off. So what are the
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- kind of what's the kind of more exciting,
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- fresh,
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- and
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- relevant way to explore what it is to
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- live on a changing planet? So I've just
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- come back from
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- I'm still finding the right word to to
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- term it. A long,
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- slow,
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- landscape
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- focused performance tour or green tour from one
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- festival to another festival
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- in Northern Arctic Norway. And
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- this is, I guess, one strand of what
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- the company does,
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- exploring
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- the effects,
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- or or the impact of climate change on,
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- the way that
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- we, humans, or whatever, conventionally
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- tour
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- artworks. So I guess in the theater, you
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- could say, well, there's
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- if we're looking at international touring, there's quite
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- a big sort of helicopter touring model. So
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- you get an invitation to go to a
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- festival. Great. Fly out there, do a gig
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- for a couple nights, come back.
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- And that's okay, but, obviously, it's quite carbon
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- intensive.
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- You know, there's there's one way of looking
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- at green touring, which is about,
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- k, perhaps we could use kind of green
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- means of transport. We could reduce our carbon,
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- try and reach net zero, go by train
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- rather than plane, things like that.
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- And I guess I found
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- when when looking at those questions with, you
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- know, larger companies that that maybe have a
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- bigger carbon footprint, You know, Mechanical is just
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- a small scale company. So I figured that,
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- okay. Well, the the carbon footprint isn't necessarily
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- a massive
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- thing for me because I'm you know, I
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- I often work with just two or three
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- creatives in creating shows.
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- There seems to be a really exciting question
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- artistically
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- for me or conceptually.
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- What if we explore this question of green
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- touring from an artistic point of view? What
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- if
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- rather than just being about, k, getting to
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- net zero, doing business as usual, but just
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- just doing it in green means,
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- perhaps
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- climate change
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- kind of makes us really think and question
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- about the the the models that we have
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- for touring arts, and do they need to
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- change, and what, I suppose,
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- what right now kind of radical
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- solutions or different ways of doing things are
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- there. So I I kind of followed this
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- kind of question a couple years ago
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- about, okay, what if we
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- are inspired
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- to tour or travel with work by the
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- way that nature moves? So can we look
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- at examples of movement in nature
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- that that, you know, could could help us
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- think about touring models? So
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- couple years back, I
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- took a show to Denmark from Scotland
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- following
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- kind of well, based on looking at old
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- maps,
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- of kind of tree lines across millennia,
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- following a kind of poetic tree line from
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- place to place. And I got from yeah.
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- Took me across Northern Scotland, Norway,
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- and and then I traveled by foot and
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- boat, and eventually got to to Denmark. So
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- I I did that exploration in 2024,
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- the first kind of green touring exploration.
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- And,
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- I just I wasn't sure what to
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- make of it. I was just, like, obviously
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- wanted, you know, really enjoy walking, and I
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- just thought I'd take photos on the way.
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- And,
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- I was quite surprised at the
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- response to it. People seem really interested in
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- this and,
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- kind of supportive of it, and there seemed
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- to be industry appetite for what was, I
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- guess, quite a sort of
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- perhaps more of a left field approach,
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- to to a big question. If I'm somebody,
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- not you, but somebody else experiencing it, what
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- do I see? What do you see? Well,
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- I guess so, obviously, I I I did
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- that journey in
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- that originally,
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- in 2024 in a couple of couple of
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- months it took me. And I took a
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- lot of documentation,
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- photos mainly.
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- And
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- the show that I took then was about
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- species extinction and the IUCN red list. And
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- so the the show that I was taking
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- involved me embodying as a kind of clown
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- or trying to embody lots of extinct species
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- in the space of an hour.
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- So I kind of started the theme of
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- sort of documenting
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- myself doing these kind of, like, outdoor performance
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- and
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- taking on,
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- the shapes of animals.
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- And so it exists now as a kind
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- of,
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- yeah, as a kind of photo gallery that
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- is being translated into
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- a performance,
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- as we speak.
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- So I'm in rehearsal for that. So I
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- felt, okay. Well, there's obviously a tour in
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- nature that is happens remotely,
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- and
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- I do that. And it's it's it's about
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- research and experience and doing that journey. But
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- then I can
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- translate that to share it with people
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- into
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- online galleries
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- and also,
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- live performance. So I guess people were really
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- seemed really interested in witnessing material from those
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- journeys actually in live performance.
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- So that brings me to the journey that
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- I've just done.
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- So, I guess,
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- following on from kind of connections I had
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- in Norway, there came a new opportunity to
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- do a journey from
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- one festival to another festival in far Northern
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- Norway. So it's kind of like perhaps a
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- 100 kilometers north of the Arctic Circle.
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- You get, you know, this bit, which is,
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- you know, essentially Norway, Finland, Sweden,
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- all are kind of slightly in the,
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- the Arctic Circle there.
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- And,
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- in a nutshell,
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- basically,
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- Donald Trump's,
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- you know, saying we we're gonna, you know,
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- take Greenland, la di da. You know, that
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- was in the news a a few few
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- months ago.
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- And that's just the kind of tip of
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- the iceberg in in terms of, you know,
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- an international
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- awareness and focus on the Arctic region as
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- a fast changing region
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- with a huge amount of,
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- sea and land based resources
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- and minerals and things,
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- but also, you know, questions about ownership and
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- international
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- access to slash sharing of those resources.
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- My understanding is that the Arctic Ocean,
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- where the ice cap currently exists, which who
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- who knows how long that is gonna be
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- there for, but that's that's not actually
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- owned by anyone. So there's there's this kind
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- of open there's this question about governance and
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- access resources and,
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- you know, extraction and so forth that is
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- very much at the forefront
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- of,
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- I guess I guess well,
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- now and looking at the, the the future
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- of the Arctic region, And it's very much
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- in the minds of people who live in
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- the region, but, obviously, it's gonna affect
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- so many people beyond the region in terms
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- of, you know, who gets access to Greenland's
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- resources or
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- undersea minerals and
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- this, that, and the other shipping routes access
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- to to to,
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- to waters.
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- And
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- so
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- it's kind of, you know, a a question,
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- you know, in a perhaps a broader
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- artistic sense. I was interested. Well, you know,
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- in a in a changing planet where,
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- you know,
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- landscapes
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- change over time,
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- and there's questions about,
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- you know,
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- as the Earth changes,
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- who has access to space,
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- place,
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- and
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- what do we do with that, and how
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- do we potentially share that seems to be
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- quite an important question.
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- And, obviously,
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- as a passionate environmentalist, I'm like, well, is
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- it all just about extraction of those resources?
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00:10:05.014 --> 00:10:06.774
- Like, is is that the only thing that
273
00:10:06.774 --> 00:10:07.514
- we're really
274
00:10:08.214 --> 00:10:09.834
- arguing about? And
275
00:10:10.695 --> 00:10:12.315
- from a very wide lens,
276
00:10:13.149 --> 00:10:15.070
- you know, I suppose the overarching question is,
277
00:10:15.070 --> 00:10:17.409
- well, how what's a way to,
278
00:10:20.750 --> 00:10:21.970
- share or have governance
279
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- of
280
00:10:23.230 --> 00:10:24.690
- place and resources
281
00:10:25.784 --> 00:10:27.784
- and dot dot dot from a a more
282
00:10:27.784 --> 00:10:30.664
- than human perspective as as weird and wacky
283
00:10:30.664 --> 00:10:32.664
- as it might seem at the moment, in
284
00:10:32.664 --> 00:10:35.485
- ten years' time, it might be quite logical
285
00:10:36.024 --> 00:10:36.524
- to
286
00:10:37.544 --> 00:10:38.524
- have nature
287
00:10:38.825 --> 00:10:41.084
- on the board or in
288
00:10:41.629 --> 00:10:43.090
- some kind of counsel
289
00:10:43.629 --> 00:10:45.970
- for as as you know, nature having representation
290
00:10:46.269 --> 00:10:48.929
- in decision making. You know, we've seen examples
291
00:10:48.990 --> 00:10:49.889
- of, you know,
292
00:10:50.509 --> 00:10:51.870
- mountains or rivers have,
293
00:10:52.269 --> 00:10:54.370
- be granted legal rights and representation.
294
00:10:54.909 --> 00:10:55.730
- And so
295
00:10:56.294 --> 00:10:58.214
- I guess I found myself asking, well, what
296
00:10:58.214 --> 00:10:58.714
- if
297
00:10:59.095 --> 00:11:01.575
- what if the aspects of the Arctic were
298
00:11:01.575 --> 00:11:02.315
- to have
299
00:11:02.934 --> 00:11:03.434
- representation
300
00:11:03.894 --> 00:11:05.914
- on what's called the Arctic Council,
301
00:11:06.294 --> 00:11:07.835
- which is a a an intergovernmental
302
00:11:08.855 --> 00:11:09.754
- decision making
303
00:11:10.409 --> 00:11:12.889
- panel or body that decides of what goes
304
00:11:12.889 --> 00:11:13.789
- on in the Arctic.
305
00:11:14.409 --> 00:11:14.909
- So
306
00:11:15.529 --> 00:11:17.370
- that's a kind of bit of a kind
307
00:11:17.370 --> 00:11:19.309
- of conceptual overview. So I thought,
308
00:11:20.889 --> 00:11:22.750
- you know, there's a chance to,
309
00:11:23.904 --> 00:11:26.245
- I think, well, do a theater tour that
310
00:11:26.305 --> 00:11:27.125
- is taking
311
00:11:27.585 --> 00:11:28.644
- a kind of workshop
312
00:11:29.504 --> 00:11:30.004
- from,
313
00:11:30.384 --> 00:11:32.065
- you know, trying to engage people in these
314
00:11:32.065 --> 00:11:34.884
- questions from from one festival to another.
315
00:11:35.600 --> 00:11:38.480
- But on that tour, actually engage physically with
316
00:11:38.480 --> 00:11:40.259
- the landscape and the nature there
317
00:11:40.639 --> 00:11:43.679
- rather than read articles about it or look
318
00:11:43.679 --> 00:11:44.820
- at YouTube videos.
319
00:11:45.519 --> 00:11:48.639
- Actually go there, explore what's there, speak to
320
00:11:48.639 --> 00:11:49.299
- the people,
321
00:11:49.995 --> 00:11:50.735
- run interviews,
322
00:11:51.355 --> 00:11:52.815
- I guess, try and do
323
00:11:53.355 --> 00:11:55.995
- creative work en route that kind of takes
324
00:11:55.995 --> 00:11:57.855
- in or responds to the landscape
325
00:11:58.315 --> 00:11:59.695
- as part of this research,
326
00:12:00.475 --> 00:12:02.894
- and develop a whole body of material that
327
00:12:03.230 --> 00:12:05.149
- I can eventually translate into a show to
328
00:12:05.149 --> 00:12:06.610
- engage people with these things.
329
00:12:07.389 --> 00:12:09.309
- And yeah. So that's that's kinda what I
330
00:12:09.309 --> 00:12:09.809
- did.
331
00:12:10.269 --> 00:12:12.990
- Okay. So sorry. Well, just so I'm clear.
332
00:12:12.990 --> 00:12:14.910
- In the two festivals, what show were you
333
00:12:14.910 --> 00:12:16.990
- performing? Is it not this show? So the
334
00:12:17.149 --> 00:12:19.784
- yeah. So here here's the here's the rub.
335
00:12:19.784 --> 00:12:20.764
- So, like,
336
00:12:21.304 --> 00:12:24.125
- the idea was that I was like, okay.
337
00:12:24.504 --> 00:12:25.565
- For green touring,
338
00:12:26.985 --> 00:12:28.044
- is it perhaps
339
00:12:28.584 --> 00:12:31.144
- more interesting if rather than I set travel
340
00:12:31.144 --> 00:12:33.449
- simply with a premade show from a to
341
00:12:33.449 --> 00:12:33.949
- b,
342
00:12:34.569 --> 00:12:37.470
- what if the show was born out of
343
00:12:37.529 --> 00:12:38.829
- the journey that I did?
344
00:12:39.370 --> 00:12:41.370
- So the journey is kind of the show
345
00:12:41.370 --> 00:12:43.929
- and the artwork itself. So I guess from
346
00:12:43.929 --> 00:12:45.870
- a bit of a kind of conceptual angle,
347
00:12:46.174 --> 00:12:48.174
- the journey was a a two month long
348
00:12:48.174 --> 00:12:48.674
- show,
349
00:12:49.615 --> 00:12:51.394
- with nature as its audience.
350
00:12:52.174 --> 00:12:52.674
- And,
351
00:12:54.735 --> 00:12:58.434
- like so, you know, from that, I presented
352
00:12:58.654 --> 00:12:59.314
- the first,
353
00:13:00.500 --> 00:13:02.200
- you know, at the finishing festival,
354
00:13:02.660 --> 00:13:05.080
- I presented a kind of hybrid performance
355
00:13:05.700 --> 00:13:09.540
- lecture as it were or performance presentation, obviously,
356
00:13:09.540 --> 00:13:11.860
- showing some of the document documentation of what
357
00:13:11.860 --> 00:13:14.840
- I'd done, but also starting to translate that
358
00:13:15.144 --> 00:13:17.485
- into a performance for audiences already.
359
00:13:18.264 --> 00:13:21.004
- So so, yeah, it's as if, you know,
360
00:13:21.945 --> 00:13:24.504
- touring without a show as it were or
361
00:13:24.504 --> 00:13:26.284
- the show coming from the tour itself.
362
00:13:26.985 --> 00:13:28.945
- Yeah. I mean, that's interesting in itself. And
363
00:13:28.945 --> 00:13:30.845
- I think the other thing that's kind of
364
00:13:31.040 --> 00:13:32.879
- just screaming out at me there from what
365
00:13:32.879 --> 00:13:35.200
- you're talking about is that, you know, we
366
00:13:35.200 --> 00:13:37.360
- we think I think most of the time,
367
00:13:37.360 --> 00:13:41.360
- our representations of the Arctic from documentaries, from
368
00:13:41.360 --> 00:13:42.899
- from artworks are about
369
00:13:43.434 --> 00:13:45.615
- the beauty of it, about the kind of
370
00:13:45.995 --> 00:13:49.434
- sublime nature that's there, about the climate that's
371
00:13:49.434 --> 00:13:49.934
- changing.
372
00:13:50.394 --> 00:13:52.815
- And then there's this kind of political angle.
373
00:13:53.675 --> 00:13:55.835
- And it's just this I had this horrible
374
00:13:55.835 --> 00:13:57.695
- thought that if you are
375
00:13:58.209 --> 00:14:00.370
- a world leader you've mentioned one already. But
376
00:14:00.370 --> 00:14:02.470
- if if you are a world leader who
377
00:14:02.690 --> 00:14:05.909
- doesn't care about climate change, then you might
378
00:14:05.970 --> 00:14:08.149
- think, do you know what? I'm gonna accelerate
379
00:14:08.209 --> 00:14:09.970
- our use of fossil fuels because it's gonna
380
00:14:09.970 --> 00:14:11.990
- open up shipping lanes, and it's gonna
381
00:14:12.324 --> 00:14:14.565
- create a world that I can Yeah. Yeah.
382
00:14:14.565 --> 00:14:17.445
- And I that's very true. And it could
383
00:14:17.445 --> 00:14:18.504
- be said that
384
00:14:19.845 --> 00:14:22.024
- some countries in the North, I. E, potentially,
385
00:14:22.084 --> 00:14:24.725
- Russia, are not averse to climate change happening
386
00:14:24.725 --> 00:14:27.179
- because it opens up access to resources and,
387
00:14:27.179 --> 00:14:29.339
- as you say, shipping shipping routes, things like
388
00:14:29.339 --> 00:14:29.839
- that,
389
00:14:30.139 --> 00:14:32.000
- stuff hidden under the perm permafrost.
390
00:14:34.059 --> 00:14:35.899
- As much as, you know, there's loads of
391
00:14:35.899 --> 00:14:39.179
- methane, there's also, you know, access to resources
392
00:14:39.179 --> 00:14:41.504
- that have sinned, you know, sinned or
393
00:14:41.985 --> 00:14:43.205
- hitherto remained
394
00:14:43.745 --> 00:14:44.485
- under ice.
395
00:14:44.945 --> 00:14:45.445
- So
396
00:14:46.865 --> 00:14:47.365
- it's,
397
00:14:47.825 --> 00:14:50.164
- yeah, it's it's complicated.
398
00:14:50.465 --> 00:14:51.605
- And I and I think,
399
00:14:52.225 --> 00:14:54.144
- you know, right now, in terms of the
400
00:14:54.144 --> 00:14:54.644
- the
401
00:14:55.024 --> 00:14:57.125
- parts of the Arctic that I've seen,
402
00:14:58.070 --> 00:14:58.570
- there's
403
00:14:59.910 --> 00:15:02.629
- there's a mix of feelings. So so I
404
00:15:02.629 --> 00:15:04.090
- wanted to journey through
405
00:15:05.110 --> 00:15:07.190
- a season of melt. I wanted to try
406
00:15:07.190 --> 00:15:07.929
- and understand
407
00:15:08.550 --> 00:15:10.570
- rather than go in deep, deep winter.
408
00:15:11.345 --> 00:15:13.424
- I wanted to get a sense of a
409
00:15:13.424 --> 00:15:14.965
- travel over a changing season,
410
00:15:15.825 --> 00:15:16.644
- see how,
411
00:15:17.184 --> 00:15:19.665
- you know, in particular spring, the climate change
412
00:15:19.665 --> 00:15:20.404
- is affecting,
413
00:15:21.105 --> 00:15:24.085
- that particular area. And what I found was,
414
00:15:24.440 --> 00:15:26.919
- at the moment, it varies really year to
415
00:15:26.919 --> 00:15:30.279
- year whatever temperature you're gonna get. That was
416
00:15:30.279 --> 00:15:32.600
- the one of those the most challenging things
417
00:15:32.600 --> 00:15:34.120
- to deal with is to say, okay. So
418
00:15:34.120 --> 00:15:36.919
- I've got a a temperature band of roughly
419
00:15:36.919 --> 00:15:40.325
- about 40 degrees to to cater for. I
420
00:15:40.325 --> 00:15:43.065
- I on any given day, it can be
421
00:15:43.445 --> 00:15:46.024
- from my about minus 30 to plus 10
422
00:15:46.485 --> 00:15:48.565
- and just depending on what the weather does
423
00:15:48.565 --> 00:15:50.585
- that week or that particular year,
424
00:15:51.285 --> 00:15:53.029
- and where I am. So
425
00:15:54.850 --> 00:15:56.610
- that meant I just had to carry a
426
00:15:56.610 --> 00:15:57.910
- lot of kit to
427
00:15:58.690 --> 00:16:00.149
- cater for different scenarios.
428
00:16:00.610 --> 00:16:03.190
- And it so happened that this year,
429
00:16:03.490 --> 00:16:07.009
- that region had an exceptionally cold, sustained cold
430
00:16:07.009 --> 00:16:08.389
- winter, which was unusual.
431
00:16:08.745 --> 00:16:09.865
- You know, I got there and people are
432
00:16:09.865 --> 00:16:11.625
- like, god, it's been mad. It it was,
433
00:16:11.625 --> 00:16:14.684
- like, minus 30 for, like, successive weeks.
434
00:16:15.544 --> 00:16:17.945
- And then around the March 10, and I
435
00:16:17.945 --> 00:16:20.585
- started my journey soon after that. Around the
436
00:16:20.585 --> 00:16:23.079
- March 10, it kind of flipped
437
00:16:23.459 --> 00:16:24.600
- to a stable,
438
00:16:25.220 --> 00:16:26.519
- warm spring
439
00:16:26.820 --> 00:16:28.839
- of of almost consistently
440
00:16:29.220 --> 00:16:30.120
- plus degrees,
441
00:16:30.820 --> 00:16:33.940
- which was extremely unusual for that region to
442
00:16:33.940 --> 00:16:36.019
- have that sort of lack of variation across
443
00:16:36.019 --> 00:16:36.519
- spring.
444
00:16:37.034 --> 00:16:39.674
- So what I found essentially was that meant
445
00:16:39.674 --> 00:16:41.835
- that I was traveling through a very warm
446
00:16:41.835 --> 00:16:43.754
- spring. So, okay, I didn't have to, like,
447
00:16:43.754 --> 00:16:45.995
- worry about getting frostbite so much on my
448
00:16:45.995 --> 00:16:46.735
- my hands,
449
00:16:47.274 --> 00:16:50.335
- but I was constantly battling rotten snow,
450
00:16:50.970 --> 00:16:53.789
- constantly battling melt, slushy snow,
451
00:16:54.490 --> 00:16:57.209
- poor conditions for skiing. And when you're trying
452
00:16:57.209 --> 00:16:58.350
- to drag a sled,
453
00:16:59.929 --> 00:17:00.429
- about,
454
00:17:00.809 --> 00:17:02.570
- you know, for the first half of it,
455
00:17:02.570 --> 00:17:05.069
- about 400 kilometers across Finland,
456
00:17:05.835 --> 00:17:07.615
- It's it's blooming tough work.
457
00:17:08.075 --> 00:17:08.575
- So,
458
00:17:08.954 --> 00:17:10.714
- you know, in place in terms of places
459
00:17:10.714 --> 00:17:12.255
- that I encountered, that's obviously
460
00:17:13.275 --> 00:17:14.554
- some people are like, great. You know, we
461
00:17:14.554 --> 00:17:17.115
- prefer a warmer bit of spring, but other
462
00:17:17.115 --> 00:17:19.434
- people are like, well, that's massively affecting tourism.
463
00:17:19.434 --> 00:17:20.714
- And the people who are coming to the
464
00:17:20.714 --> 00:17:22.910
- region is in you know, if you're not
465
00:17:22.910 --> 00:17:24.990
- a hunter or you work in nature, then
466
00:17:24.990 --> 00:17:27.230
- you know that that's affecting, you know, fish
467
00:17:27.230 --> 00:17:29.549
- migration and what comes into the region. It's
468
00:17:29.549 --> 00:17:30.049
- affecting
469
00:17:30.589 --> 00:17:32.130
- other forms of animal migration,
470
00:17:32.750 --> 00:17:34.609
- and what plants grow. So,
471
00:17:35.345 --> 00:17:37.664
- yeah, I guess I guess not everyone is
472
00:17:37.664 --> 00:17:40.224
- totally averse to climate change happening up there.
473
00:17:40.224 --> 00:17:40.724
- But,
474
00:17:41.265 --> 00:17:42.484
- yeah, people are sort
475
00:17:43.585 --> 00:17:45.525
- of concerned about it, but,
476
00:17:46.224 --> 00:17:47.664
- I guess, living with it and just living
477
00:17:47.825 --> 00:17:48.960
- you know, learning to adapt.
478
00:17:50.079 --> 00:17:52.659
- That major difference is a bit in temperature
479
00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:54.720
- from day to day, week to week. Has
480
00:17:54.720 --> 00:17:56.559
- that been like that for a while, or
481
00:17:56.559 --> 00:17:58.559
- is that what the climate change has been
482
00:17:58.559 --> 00:18:02.179
- bringing about? Climate change is bringing that, but
483
00:18:02.240 --> 00:18:05.144
- but that's not, you know next year, it
484
00:18:05.144 --> 00:18:07.404
- will guarantee to be something completely different.
485
00:18:07.784 --> 00:18:09.404
- So you get this complete unpredictability
486
00:18:09.944 --> 00:18:12.664
- of weather patterns. I guess kind of what
487
00:18:12.664 --> 00:18:14.525
- you know now is that, generally,
488
00:18:15.065 --> 00:18:17.625
- the temperature across spring and summer will be
489
00:18:17.625 --> 00:18:18.125
- warmer.
490
00:18:19.809 --> 00:18:21.509
- But as I say, like, in in winter,
491
00:18:22.289 --> 00:18:24.849
- like, this year, they were plunged into deep
492
00:18:24.849 --> 00:18:26.950
- sustained cold like they've never had before
493
00:18:27.409 --> 00:18:29.829
- or in a long time. It's it's this
494
00:18:29.890 --> 00:18:33.190
- breaking of a traditional pattern. In some areas,
495
00:18:35.445 --> 00:18:36.424
- perhaps more
496
00:18:37.204 --> 00:18:37.704
- coastal,
497
00:18:38.644 --> 00:18:40.565
- they're saying that they're kind of, in the
498
00:18:40.565 --> 00:18:43.605
- last fifty, sixty years, lost two months of
499
00:18:43.605 --> 00:18:44.105
- winter,
500
00:18:44.805 --> 00:18:45.464
- you know,
501
00:18:46.005 --> 00:18:47.464
- such as the spring change.
502
00:18:47.890 --> 00:18:49.809
- But I found that as soon as you
503
00:18:49.809 --> 00:18:50.549
- get altitude,
504
00:18:51.569 --> 00:18:53.589
- you can generally trust that
505
00:18:54.210 --> 00:18:56.230
- you'll still get your cold and your snow.
506
00:18:56.289 --> 00:18:58.210
- So as soon as I hit border mountains
507
00:18:58.210 --> 00:18:59.509
- around Finland and Norway,
508
00:19:00.445 --> 00:19:02.945
- you know, in late April, it was like
509
00:19:03.164 --> 00:19:04.465
- plunging back into
510
00:19:05.325 --> 00:19:05.825
- winter.
511
00:19:06.605 --> 00:19:09.164
- So, you know, just an example, I had
512
00:19:09.164 --> 00:19:10.945
- a a friend who
513
00:19:11.404 --> 00:19:11.904
- visited,
514
00:19:12.205 --> 00:19:13.744
- I think, a couple years ago
515
00:19:14.080 --> 00:19:16.119
- or even last year was in a sim
516
00:19:16.240 --> 00:19:17.539
- in a similar area,
517
00:19:18.160 --> 00:19:18.900
- in April,
518
00:19:20.320 --> 00:19:22.480
- where I traveled around the kind of Finland,
519
00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:24.000
- Sweden, Norway border region,
520
00:19:24.640 --> 00:19:26.320
- on what's called the the, you know, the
521
00:19:26.320 --> 00:19:28.799
- finger Of Of Finland that kinda pokes up
522
00:19:28.799 --> 00:19:30.394
- into Norway. And
523
00:19:31.734 --> 00:19:33.414
- she said when I when she got there
524
00:19:33.414 --> 00:19:35.815
- in April, it was she got minus 30
525
00:19:35.815 --> 00:19:36.315
- temperatures.
526
00:19:36.695 --> 00:19:38.934
- I was thinking, alright. Better better plan for
527
00:19:38.934 --> 00:19:40.535
- that. Better, you know, make sure I've got
528
00:19:40.535 --> 00:19:42.214
- my Arctic tent. But,
529
00:19:43.015 --> 00:19:44.394
- you know, when I got there,
530
00:19:45.230 --> 00:19:47.470
- I, you know, I'd had successive days of
531
00:19:47.470 --> 00:19:50.029
- sunlight. The only sort of stable conditions I
532
00:19:50.029 --> 00:19:51.170
- could travel on were,
533
00:19:51.789 --> 00:19:54.289
- lakes and rivers, which still remain frozen.
534
00:19:54.590 --> 00:19:56.109
- But when I actually got to the border
535
00:19:56.109 --> 00:19:56.590
- river,
536
00:19:56.910 --> 00:19:58.670
- even the river was open. So I ended
537
00:19:58.670 --> 00:20:00.609
- up having to shift from skis
538
00:20:01.525 --> 00:20:03.305
- to skis and sleds to hiking,
539
00:20:03.765 --> 00:20:05.365
- but I couldn't hike up the river because
540
00:20:05.365 --> 00:20:07.684
- it was kind of, you know, breaking open.
541
00:20:07.684 --> 00:20:09.144
- So I had to go on this horrendously
542
00:20:09.285 --> 00:20:10.025
- busy road,
543
00:20:10.325 --> 00:20:12.904
- basically, a main highway up to
544
00:20:13.980 --> 00:20:16.140
- up to up to the Norwegian border. So
545
00:20:16.220 --> 00:20:18.460
- and then found at that border in mountain
546
00:20:18.460 --> 00:20:18.960
- areas,
547
00:20:19.420 --> 00:20:21.580
- oh, it's it's actually you know, I get
548
00:20:21.580 --> 00:20:23.900
- elevation, and then suddenly it's winter conditions again.
549
00:20:23.900 --> 00:20:25.660
- So I had to rehire some skis and
550
00:20:25.660 --> 00:20:26.240
- a sled,
551
00:20:27.019 --> 00:20:30.413
- to travel travel there. So it was a
552
00:20:30.413 --> 00:20:33.085
- bit bit mad. So I I when you're
553
00:20:33.305 --> 00:20:35.545
- as an artist, you're traveling through this this
554
00:20:35.545 --> 00:20:37.785
- kind of changing landscape and you're talking to
555
00:20:37.785 --> 00:20:38.365
- the people
556
00:20:38.744 --> 00:20:41.164
- whose lives have been affected by it.
557
00:20:42.160 --> 00:20:43.680
- Can you just tell me what what what
558
00:20:43.680 --> 00:20:45.599
- you're thinking in terms of how you're going
559
00:20:45.599 --> 00:20:47.920
- to represent that? And and to a certain
560
00:20:47.920 --> 00:20:50.019
- extent, my my own interest particularly
561
00:20:50.320 --> 00:20:52.960
- because my job is, you know, documentaries and
562
00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:54.820
- things, the TV documentaries is
563
00:20:55.505 --> 00:20:58.784
- it it it's often represented by melting snow.
564
00:20:58.784 --> 00:21:01.024
- Right? Melting ice. That's how we see climate
565
00:21:01.024 --> 00:21:03.264
- change in the Arctic. But what you're talking
566
00:21:03.264 --> 00:21:06.304
- about is is much more complex than that.
567
00:21:06.304 --> 00:21:07.764
- So how how do
568
00:21:08.224 --> 00:21:10.164
- you represent that to people? Yeah.
569
00:21:10.970 --> 00:21:13.230
- I guess, first off, I like,
570
00:21:13.609 --> 00:21:15.369
- it feels like the theme of the theme
571
00:21:15.369 --> 00:21:17.289
- of borders, which was the main theme of
572
00:21:17.289 --> 00:21:17.789
- threshold,
573
00:21:18.170 --> 00:21:20.890
- was, I guess, the thought about of of
574
00:21:20.890 --> 00:21:23.529
- of breaking it down into four different areas
575
00:21:23.529 --> 00:21:24.190
- of focus.
576
00:21:25.144 --> 00:21:26.505
- Because, you know, we look at a map,
577
00:21:26.505 --> 00:21:27.804
- and, of course, we just see
578
00:21:28.265 --> 00:21:30.825
- geopolitical borders that have been drawn on there.
579
00:21:30.825 --> 00:21:31.724
- But, of course,
580
00:21:32.505 --> 00:21:34.664
- you know, we expand the lens. We've got,
581
00:21:34.664 --> 00:21:37.565
- you know, the indigenous Sami community up there
582
00:21:37.829 --> 00:21:38.230
- who
583
00:21:38.630 --> 00:21:41.909
- whose notions of territory and geography don't conform
584
00:21:41.909 --> 00:21:44.230
- to those international borders, which is still a
585
00:21:44.230 --> 00:21:46.390
- big bone of contention up there. So you
586
00:21:46.390 --> 00:21:49.529
- have Sami geographies that have been based around
587
00:21:49.909 --> 00:21:51.609
- migration and and travel.
588
00:21:52.865 --> 00:21:54.484
- And you've also got
589
00:21:55.184 --> 00:21:55.684
- animals
590
00:21:56.065 --> 00:21:58.164
- living in the region, animals and plants
591
00:21:58.464 --> 00:22:01.204
- who, again, you know, have different kinds of
592
00:22:01.825 --> 00:22:03.444
- geographies, sense of borders,
593
00:22:03.984 --> 00:22:04.484
- and
594
00:22:05.809 --> 00:22:08.289
- migration patterns. And one of those was one
595
00:22:08.289 --> 00:22:11.089
- that inspired the route that I took. So
596
00:22:11.089 --> 00:22:11.589
- I,
597
00:22:12.289 --> 00:22:13.890
- you know, I'll get onto it, but as
598
00:22:13.890 --> 00:22:16.049
- part of the more than human question, I
599
00:22:16.049 --> 00:22:16.789
- was traveling
600
00:22:17.330 --> 00:22:19.170
- with the kind of kind of conceit or
601
00:22:19.170 --> 00:22:19.830
- the guise
602
00:22:20.315 --> 00:22:23.134
- of a reindeer that's taken on human form,
603
00:22:23.835 --> 00:22:25.454
- on my way to the Arctic Council.
604
00:22:26.154 --> 00:22:26.894
- And so
605
00:22:27.755 --> 00:22:28.974
- I I was journeying
606
00:22:29.275 --> 00:22:29.775
- along,
607
00:22:31.115 --> 00:22:34.315
- the roots of of traditional reindeer herding from
608
00:22:34.315 --> 00:22:34.974
- the inland
609
00:22:35.720 --> 00:22:37.559
- area to the coastal area, which is, you
610
00:22:37.559 --> 00:22:39.180
- know, a a kind of spring to summer
611
00:22:39.640 --> 00:22:40.460
- migration route.
612
00:22:42.920 --> 00:22:43.900
- And there's also,
613
00:22:44.200 --> 00:22:46.920
- lastly, the perspective of of kind of, like,
614
00:22:46.920 --> 00:22:49.099
- geological borders, you know, the the
615
00:22:49.595 --> 00:22:52.335
- the rivers, the the the sea, the mountains.
616
00:22:53.595 --> 00:22:54.095
- So
617
00:22:54.795 --> 00:22:57.535
- your question, how does this get represented?
618
00:22:58.154 --> 00:22:59.994
- I guess, what questions was I asking to
619
00:22:59.994 --> 00:23:02.095
- people? Well, I was obviously gathering audio
620
00:23:02.474 --> 00:23:05.220
- audio information about, you know, asking people about
621
00:23:05.220 --> 00:23:07.059
- their experience of borders, what they think about,
622
00:23:07.059 --> 00:23:08.900
- you know, how what do they think about
623
00:23:08.900 --> 00:23:11.380
- what Donald Trump said and thoughts about Arctic
624
00:23:11.380 --> 00:23:11.880
- ownership.
625
00:23:12.180 --> 00:23:13.880
- But I felt like for me,
626
00:23:14.740 --> 00:23:15.880
- I wanted the
627
00:23:17.845 --> 00:23:19.704
- input to be more about
628
00:23:20.005 --> 00:23:20.505
- imagination.
629
00:23:20.964 --> 00:23:22.565
- What if we you know? Because this is
630
00:23:22.565 --> 00:23:24.585
- a creative con creative project
631
00:23:25.204 --> 00:23:27.684
- and not just a kind of documentary or
632
00:23:27.684 --> 00:23:29.144
- evidence gathering thing.
633
00:23:29.779 --> 00:23:32.019
- So people always seem to become slightly more
634
00:23:32.019 --> 00:23:34.740
- alive and interested when I ask, well, if
635
00:23:34.740 --> 00:23:36.679
- you were to represent
636
00:23:37.380 --> 00:23:39.159
- or or be able to
637
00:23:39.539 --> 00:23:41.539
- take on the form of nature and represent
638
00:23:41.539 --> 00:23:43.539
- something in nature that mattered to you at
639
00:23:43.539 --> 00:23:45.994
- the Arctic Council, something in the Arctic region,
640
00:23:45.994 --> 00:23:47.515
- what would it be, and what would it
641
00:23:47.515 --> 00:23:48.174
- look like?
642
00:23:48.474 --> 00:23:48.974
- And,
643
00:23:49.755 --> 00:23:51.595
- you know, if there was space and time,
644
00:23:51.595 --> 00:23:53.914
- like, how would that thing move and inviting
645
00:23:53.914 --> 00:23:56.474
- people to embody what this this thing would
646
00:23:56.474 --> 00:23:59.454
- be. So that that kind of collective imagination
647
00:23:59.755 --> 00:24:00.150
- will
648
00:24:00.789 --> 00:24:03.029
- in some way, inform the bedrock of of
649
00:24:03.029 --> 00:24:05.509
- the performance that I'm trying to make. Why
650
00:24:05.509 --> 00:24:07.670
- reindeer? What what was the thinking there? Because
651
00:24:07.670 --> 00:24:09.910
- there was there was other fauna up there,
652
00:24:09.910 --> 00:24:11.750
- so why reindeer? Is it because they can't
653
00:24:11.750 --> 00:24:13.289
- fly? Is that the way?
654
00:24:14.390 --> 00:24:16.724
- Well, I guess I guess I don't know
655
00:24:16.724 --> 00:24:18.085
- if you've been to the region. Have have
656
00:24:18.085 --> 00:24:20.345
- you? No. I haven't. No. So so reindeer
657
00:24:20.404 --> 00:24:22.744
- for us are these, obviously, you know, Rudolph
658
00:24:22.964 --> 00:24:24.325
- comes across in the,
659
00:24:25.605 --> 00:24:27.365
- in the myths and the legends and the
660
00:24:27.365 --> 00:24:29.684
- the kids' stories and all of that. But
661
00:24:29.684 --> 00:24:31.224
- if, like, in the region,
662
00:24:32.710 --> 00:24:36.470
- there's almost like nothing but reindeer in terms
663
00:24:36.470 --> 00:24:39.589
- of farming. They're so prevalent. They're they're they
664
00:24:39.589 --> 00:24:40.089
- are
665
00:24:41.349 --> 00:24:43.829
- this you know, the Sami have based their
666
00:24:43.829 --> 00:24:46.490
- kind of lives around reindeer herding for centuries.
667
00:24:48.755 --> 00:24:49.335
- And reindeer
668
00:24:50.355 --> 00:24:53.894
- stuff is actually very common, like reindeer skins
669
00:24:54.035 --> 00:24:56.214
- and and then clothes made out of reindeer.
670
00:24:56.275 --> 00:24:56.775
- And,
671
00:24:57.555 --> 00:24:59.394
- there's almost not you know, you you won't
672
00:24:59.394 --> 00:25:00.775
- see a cow for miles,
673
00:25:01.450 --> 00:25:03.769
- you know, and traditional forms of agriculture. All
674
00:25:03.769 --> 00:25:06.590
- of the agriculture is actually based around reindeer,
675
00:25:08.090 --> 00:25:10.990
- which are beautiful, incredible, amazing beings.
676
00:25:11.610 --> 00:25:12.110
- And
677
00:25:14.524 --> 00:25:15.184
- I guess,
678
00:25:15.724 --> 00:25:18.765
- I was partly trying to follow that question
679
00:25:18.765 --> 00:25:20.065
- of, you know,
680
00:25:21.085 --> 00:25:22.924
- can I be inspired by a way that
681
00:25:22.924 --> 00:25:25.565
- that nature moves and found this particular reindeer
682
00:25:25.565 --> 00:25:27.565
- migration pattern and thought that could be good
683
00:25:27.565 --> 00:25:29.369
- match for the route that I might take?
684
00:25:30.650 --> 00:25:33.869
- And something that that would migrate across borders
685
00:25:33.930 --> 00:25:35.470
- and your human borders.
686
00:25:36.569 --> 00:25:38.490
- But I think there's a it's fair to
687
00:25:38.490 --> 00:25:40.670
- say that there's a fair amount of mythology
688
00:25:42.089 --> 00:25:42.910
- about reindeer
689
00:25:43.369 --> 00:25:46.325
- and and legends and folk tales that seem
690
00:25:46.345 --> 00:25:49.044
- to excite me and be quite inspiring,
691
00:25:49.585 --> 00:25:52.704
- not necessarily the kind of Rudolph, red nose
692
00:25:52.704 --> 00:25:53.684
- reindeer, but
693
00:25:54.144 --> 00:25:56.005
- but certainly in Sami mythology,
694
00:25:56.944 --> 00:25:59.390
- there's a huge amount of, you know, spirituality
695
00:25:59.690 --> 00:26:01.950
- and and a myth connected to the reindeer,
696
00:26:02.330 --> 00:26:04.349
- fascinating pictorial representations
697
00:26:04.809 --> 00:26:06.269
- going back hundreds of years.
698
00:26:06.890 --> 00:26:09.049
- And I just found an yeah. Around reindeer,
699
00:26:09.049 --> 00:26:11.390
- this kind of, like, cultural storehouse
700
00:26:11.690 --> 00:26:12.190
- of
701
00:26:12.784 --> 00:26:14.944
- very exciting and beautiful stuff that I I
702
00:26:14.944 --> 00:26:17.105
- kinda really wanted to respond to. But, of
703
00:26:17.105 --> 00:26:18.704
- course, as you say, there's, you know, there's
704
00:26:18.704 --> 00:26:21.904
- salmon migrating salmon there. Bears go across the
705
00:26:21.904 --> 00:26:22.404
- border.
706
00:26:23.664 --> 00:26:25.744
- All sorts to do with plants. But I
707
00:26:25.744 --> 00:26:26.644
- guess, you know,
708
00:26:27.079 --> 00:26:29.420
- how it ended up was, you know, the
709
00:26:29.720 --> 00:26:30.220
- the
710
00:26:31.000 --> 00:26:33.819
- reindeer became my particular kind of, like,
711
00:26:34.440 --> 00:26:36.859
- persona or character to travel with. But
712
00:26:37.240 --> 00:26:38.920
- one of the questions that we ended up
713
00:26:38.920 --> 00:26:41.164
- exploring was, and when I say we,
714
00:26:41.944 --> 00:26:43.484
- me and a kind of artistic
715
00:26:43.944 --> 00:26:44.924
- partner, Natasha,
716
00:26:45.304 --> 00:26:47.325
- who's a designer and a maker,
717
00:26:47.625 --> 00:26:49.144
- we asked this question, well, what if the
718
00:26:49.144 --> 00:26:52.904
- reindeer were to meet other embodiments of nature
719
00:26:52.904 --> 00:26:54.099
- on the way that were kind of on
720
00:26:54.099 --> 00:26:55.779
- their way as a kind of chorus to
721
00:26:55.779 --> 00:26:56.839
- the Arctic Council.
722
00:26:57.460 --> 00:26:57.960
- So
723
00:26:58.579 --> 00:26:59.559
- we ended up
724
00:27:00.099 --> 00:27:03.700
- designing and making and photography if photographing, sorry,
725
00:27:03.700 --> 00:27:04.919
- these various kind of,
726
00:27:05.539 --> 00:27:06.759
- characters who
727
00:27:07.394 --> 00:27:09.394
- might be on their way to the Arctic
728
00:27:09.394 --> 00:27:11.815
- Council. And so it's a kind of imaginative
729
00:27:12.035 --> 00:27:14.275
- exercise built out of research into kind of
730
00:27:14.275 --> 00:27:16.115
- myth and legend in the area and also
731
00:27:16.115 --> 00:27:17.255
- the landscape itself.
732
00:27:17.715 --> 00:27:19.255
- And so we we did,
733
00:27:19.820 --> 00:27:21.039
- depictions of ice,
734
00:27:21.740 --> 00:27:22.320
- of lingonberries,
735
00:27:22.779 --> 00:27:25.420
- of arctic night, of the aurora, of the
736
00:27:25.420 --> 00:27:25.920
- forest.
737
00:27:26.460 --> 00:27:28.700
- And so we we we sort of ended
738
00:27:28.700 --> 00:27:30.779
- up creating sort of gallery of video and
739
00:27:30.779 --> 00:27:32.000
- photo of these
740
00:27:32.414 --> 00:27:34.515
- characters with an with an eye to that
741
00:27:35.055 --> 00:27:35.555
- forming
742
00:27:35.855 --> 00:27:38.335
- what the performance is is gonna be based
743
00:27:38.335 --> 00:27:40.494
- around. Cool. Did you when you were doing
744
00:27:40.494 --> 00:27:41.555
- it, did you experience
745
00:27:41.934 --> 00:27:44.035
- the any of that kind of big
746
00:27:44.990 --> 00:27:47.170
- fauna when you were traveling around?
747
00:27:47.630 --> 00:27:50.529
- No bears. The bears are very secretive there.
748
00:27:51.549 --> 00:27:53.390
- People who live there barely see them at
749
00:27:53.549 --> 00:27:55.650
- oh, sorry. Bad pun. They hardly see it.
750
00:28:00.575 --> 00:28:01.315
- We saw,
751
00:28:03.855 --> 00:28:05.234
- well, tons of reindeer.
752
00:28:07.694 --> 00:28:08.914
- I actually saw orcas.
753
00:28:10.095 --> 00:28:11.554
- Oh, wow. Saw
754
00:28:11.920 --> 00:28:14.559
- An arctic hare and a fox in a
755
00:28:14.559 --> 00:28:15.059
- chase.
756
00:28:16.320 --> 00:28:17.619
- That was pretty amazing.
757
00:28:20.640 --> 00:28:23.920
- Lots of returning migrating birds as the spring
758
00:28:23.920 --> 00:28:24.660
- went on.
759
00:28:27.904 --> 00:28:28.404
- And,
760
00:28:30.065 --> 00:28:32.384
- a sea otter. You know? So saw saw
761
00:28:32.384 --> 00:28:35.365
- some pretty cool, cool things. But,
762
00:28:36.065 --> 00:28:39.000
- yeah. Yeah. Cool. So I wanna get into
763
00:28:39.000 --> 00:28:41.000
- just a little bit of your own, kind
764
00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:43.259
- of personal journey on this. So you're
765
00:28:44.440 --> 00:28:47.399
- embodying a reindeer or you're imagining your reindeer
766
00:28:47.399 --> 00:28:49.099
- or reindeer, however you Mhmm.
767
00:28:49.815 --> 00:28:52.375
- Phrase that. Are you are you listening to
768
00:28:52.375 --> 00:28:54.534
- particular things? Have you got particular music that
769
00:28:54.534 --> 00:28:55.974
- you're listening to? Are you listening to the
770
00:28:55.974 --> 00:28:58.294
- Physics World Stories podcast? Is it moving around?
771
00:28:58.294 --> 00:29:00.615
- What are you doing? Yeah. I guess I
772
00:29:00.615 --> 00:29:02.075
- guess I'm trying to,
773
00:29:06.039 --> 00:29:06.539
- well,
774
00:29:08.039 --> 00:29:09.740
- I mean, first off, like,
775
00:29:10.920 --> 00:29:13.000
- I didn't wanna get the the the this
776
00:29:13.160 --> 00:29:14.359
- when I say I was traveling as a
777
00:29:14.359 --> 00:29:15.880
- reindeer, it doesn't mean I was just going
778
00:29:15.880 --> 00:29:16.940
- on on all fours,
779
00:29:17.644 --> 00:29:19.404
- pretending I was a reindeer for the entire
780
00:29:19.404 --> 00:29:19.904
- way.
781
00:29:20.284 --> 00:29:22.684
- I had this, almost like a magic reindeer
782
00:29:22.684 --> 00:29:23.904
- costume. So I traveled,
783
00:29:24.284 --> 00:29:25.424
- and took with me
784
00:29:25.724 --> 00:29:27.105
- a a reindeer pelt.
785
00:29:28.204 --> 00:29:29.825
- And this was my kind of costume
786
00:29:30.169 --> 00:29:32.089
- along with some antlers that I would put
787
00:29:32.089 --> 00:29:35.210
- on mostly in kind of nighttime rituals when
788
00:29:35.210 --> 00:29:37.789
- no one else was about, and I could
789
00:29:38.890 --> 00:29:41.049
- go and go and almost use this this
790
00:29:41.049 --> 00:29:43.369
- mask and this costume to as a way
791
00:29:43.369 --> 00:29:44.829
- of experiencing the world.
792
00:29:46.744 --> 00:29:48.525
- What I wanted to do was
793
00:29:49.785 --> 00:29:51.484
- not come to the region
794
00:29:52.025 --> 00:29:54.744
- with loads of ideas beforehand and say, well,
795
00:29:54.744 --> 00:29:57.065
- I'm gonna helicopter in. I'm gonna do this,
796
00:29:57.065 --> 00:29:58.859
- this, and this, and then get out. And
797
00:29:59.099 --> 00:30:01.200
- I just kinda wanted to go there and
798
00:30:01.980 --> 00:30:02.480
- witness.
799
00:30:03.740 --> 00:30:05.920
- And because reindeer has such
800
00:30:07.980 --> 00:30:09.200
- quiet, attentive,
801
00:30:09.660 --> 00:30:10.640
- ready qualities
802
00:30:11.605 --> 00:30:12.904
- or any kind of deer.
803
00:30:13.684 --> 00:30:14.825
- I kind of felt
804
00:30:15.524 --> 00:30:18.164
- that the deer was a brilliant way to
805
00:30:18.164 --> 00:30:18.904
- just simply
806
00:30:19.284 --> 00:30:20.184
- really observe
807
00:30:21.284 --> 00:30:22.984
- what's around me, really listen,
808
00:30:23.365 --> 00:30:24.184
- and really
809
00:30:24.644 --> 00:30:26.964
- look at the small things, the care, the
810
00:30:26.964 --> 00:30:27.420
- detail.
811
00:30:27.820 --> 00:30:29.340
- So I spent quite a lot of time
812
00:30:29.340 --> 00:30:31.039
- just trying to observe in detail
813
00:30:31.340 --> 00:30:32.640
- and make sound recordings,
814
00:30:32.940 --> 00:30:34.240
- take a lot of photographs,
815
00:30:34.619 --> 00:30:36.320
- take lots of voice recordings,
816
00:30:37.100 --> 00:30:38.539
- kind of soak it all in as it
817
00:30:38.539 --> 00:30:39.660
- were. I I feel like I was trying
818
00:30:39.660 --> 00:30:40.859
- to be a bit of a sponge during
819
00:30:40.859 --> 00:30:41.565
- this time.
820
00:30:42.524 --> 00:30:43.804
- So that's what I do in my kind
821
00:30:43.804 --> 00:30:45.964
- of reindeer guys. And then, obviously, from day
822
00:30:45.964 --> 00:30:48.365
- to day, you've got, you know, eight to
823
00:30:48.365 --> 00:30:50.704
- ten hours of journeying where you got
824
00:30:51.804 --> 00:30:53.105
- stuff to listen to,
825
00:30:56.079 --> 00:30:57.940
- stuff to look at. Although Finland,
826
00:30:58.480 --> 00:31:00.000
- as much as I love it, becomes quite
827
00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:02.159
- monotonous after a while of, you know, lakes,
828
00:31:02.159 --> 00:31:04.659
- rivers, pine trees, birch trees, snow.
829
00:31:05.359 --> 00:31:07.460
- You know, eat, sleep, repeat, basically.
830
00:31:09.424 --> 00:31:11.125
- Yeah. I guess I found myself
831
00:31:11.904 --> 00:31:12.404
- listening
832
00:31:13.184 --> 00:31:15.105
- not so much to kind of voice work
833
00:31:15.105 --> 00:31:15.845
- and podcast,
834
00:31:17.505 --> 00:31:19.845
- listening to, like, slow drone music
835
00:31:20.464 --> 00:31:21.924
- because I felt that
836
00:31:23.330 --> 00:31:25.890
- one of the unexpected things that I just
837
00:31:26.049 --> 00:31:27.970
- maybe it's stupid in hindsight that I hadn't
838
00:31:27.970 --> 00:31:30.549
- thought about it. But it's almost like
839
00:31:31.570 --> 00:31:33.509
- light was the main relationship
840
00:31:34.130 --> 00:31:35.565
- across the whole thing.
841
00:31:36.444 --> 00:31:38.065
- Like, it was way brighter
842
00:31:38.684 --> 00:31:40.764
- at that time of starting than I thought
843
00:31:40.764 --> 00:31:42.284
- it would be. I kind of felt it
844
00:31:42.284 --> 00:31:44.684
- would be like full night until about the
845
00:31:44.684 --> 00:31:46.924
- end of February and then start to get
846
00:31:46.924 --> 00:31:50.119
- lighter and lighter, But we were already in
847
00:31:50.419 --> 00:31:51.879
- reasonable day brightness
848
00:31:52.899 --> 00:31:53.720
- in March.
849
00:31:54.659 --> 00:31:55.879
- And, essentially,
850
00:31:56.579 --> 00:31:57.639
- I was journeying
851
00:31:58.819 --> 00:32:01.639
- to, you know, mid late May and finishing
852
00:32:01.700 --> 00:32:04.125
- just about the time of the midnight sun,
853
00:32:04.125 --> 00:32:05.424
- the full midnight sun.
854
00:32:06.365 --> 00:32:06.865
- And
855
00:32:07.164 --> 00:32:09.105
- because it was exceptionally warm,
856
00:32:10.605 --> 00:32:11.105
- spring
857
00:32:12.045 --> 00:32:14.305
- and the sun was out quite a lot,
858
00:32:14.605 --> 00:32:16.609
- I just, you know, was able to get
859
00:32:16.609 --> 00:32:17.669
- the best of
860
00:32:18.849 --> 00:32:19.349
- seeing
861
00:32:20.690 --> 00:32:22.390
- how the sun would change,
862
00:32:24.609 --> 00:32:25.990
- and the light would change
863
00:32:26.450 --> 00:32:27.349
- day to day
864
00:32:28.049 --> 00:32:28.549
- and
865
00:32:29.409 --> 00:32:32.505
- experiencing this, like, yeah, I mean, Arctic light
866
00:32:32.505 --> 00:32:35.244
- just just feels different. It feels quite incredible
867
00:32:35.464 --> 00:32:37.144
- and makes me feel, like, really
868
00:32:37.704 --> 00:32:39.464
- yeah. Just makes me feel a bit different
869
00:32:39.464 --> 00:32:41.384
- to say how I experienced this some some
870
00:32:41.384 --> 00:32:42.284
- here in Bristol.
871
00:32:42.984 --> 00:32:43.484
- So
872
00:32:44.049 --> 00:32:46.549
- I kind of really became attuned to
873
00:32:46.930 --> 00:32:49.650
- the the kind of minutiae of changes to
874
00:32:49.650 --> 00:32:50.789
- light across
875
00:32:51.890 --> 00:32:52.630
- the journey.
876
00:32:53.089 --> 00:32:53.589
- And
877
00:32:55.650 --> 00:32:57.170
- and as much as it's a kind this
878
00:32:57.170 --> 00:32:58.930
- is a kind of physics podcast, I have
879
00:32:58.930 --> 00:33:00.184
- to say, as and as much as I
880
00:33:00.184 --> 00:33:02.565
- love engaging with scientific research, I
881
00:33:02.904 --> 00:33:05.244
- as a creative, sometimes it's it's
882
00:33:06.664 --> 00:33:08.184
- I feel it's, like, it's okay to say,
883
00:33:08.184 --> 00:33:10.664
- I you know, I wanna explore reindeer, but
884
00:33:10.664 --> 00:33:12.105
- it doesn't mean I have to read all
885
00:33:12.105 --> 00:33:14.744
- about the biology of reindeer or how trees
886
00:33:14.744 --> 00:33:16.799
- respond to Arctic light. I just wanna experience
887
00:33:16.799 --> 00:33:18.240
- it with my body and maybe at some
888
00:33:18.240 --> 00:33:20.559
- point later look at the science behind it.
889
00:33:20.559 --> 00:33:22.559
- You know? So I was kind of doing
890
00:33:22.559 --> 00:33:24.819
- kind of kind of Luddite anti science
891
00:33:25.599 --> 00:33:26.819
- approach first,
892
00:33:27.119 --> 00:33:27.619
- empirical
893
00:33:28.240 --> 00:33:29.700
- experience, and then,
894
00:33:30.434 --> 00:33:32.774
- you know, maybe refer to some research afterwards.
895
00:33:32.835 --> 00:33:34.914
- Yeah. That's interesting. I'm sure there will be
896
00:33:34.914 --> 00:33:37.394
- people listening who are shouting at their phone
897
00:33:37.394 --> 00:33:39.634
- right now. But, but there also have been
898
00:33:39.634 --> 00:33:42.034
- lots and lots of people who understand that,
899
00:33:42.034 --> 00:33:42.615
- you know,
900
00:33:43.150 --> 00:33:43.970
- any kind
901
00:33:44.670 --> 00:33:46.910
- of even if it's science communication that you're
902
00:33:46.910 --> 00:33:48.210
- doing with your
903
00:33:48.509 --> 00:33:49.009
- art,
904
00:33:49.549 --> 00:33:51.009
- you've got to let go
905
00:33:51.470 --> 00:33:51.970
- of
906
00:33:53.150 --> 00:33:55.869
- the research because otherwise, people will read a
907
00:33:55.869 --> 00:33:58.265
- scientific paper, and the art that you're creating
908
00:33:58.265 --> 00:33:59.244
- has got to
909
00:33:59.545 --> 00:34:01.224
- be something that people engage with because they're
910
00:34:01.224 --> 00:34:02.904
- not going to go and read the scientific
911
00:34:02.904 --> 00:34:05.805
- paper because that's not what people do. Right?
912
00:34:06.184 --> 00:34:08.265
- It's not. And I you know, certainly is
913
00:34:08.344 --> 00:34:10.105
- you know, when I'm making work in the
914
00:34:10.105 --> 00:34:11.900
- theater where, obviously, obviously, my primary
915
00:34:12.199 --> 00:34:14.940
- audience is not necessarily the research community,
916
00:34:15.799 --> 00:34:18.039
- I would say that, generally, my feeling is
917
00:34:18.039 --> 00:34:20.039
- that climate change has become a thing that
918
00:34:20.039 --> 00:34:21.339
- is dominated by
919
00:34:21.960 --> 00:34:22.460
- scenarios,
920
00:34:23.239 --> 00:34:23.980
- and data
921
00:34:24.440 --> 00:34:24.940
- and
922
00:34:26.394 --> 00:34:28.014
- slightly sort of depressive outlooks.
923
00:34:28.474 --> 00:34:30.394
- And it's like, how do we get away
924
00:34:30.394 --> 00:34:31.614
- from that to make it
925
00:34:33.114 --> 00:34:33.614
- either
926
00:34:34.474 --> 00:34:36.875
- a a slightly more emotive or exciting subject
927
00:34:36.875 --> 00:34:38.635
- or something that is not depressing and heavy
928
00:34:38.635 --> 00:34:41.500
- for you? But it's it's still depressing. Right?
929
00:34:41.500 --> 00:34:43.440
- I mean, it's not a good thing that's
930
00:34:43.500 --> 00:34:46.139
- happening. Well, it depends, I guess, how you
931
00:34:46.139 --> 00:34:46.960
- look at it.
932
00:34:47.339 --> 00:34:47.920
- You know?
933
00:34:48.940 --> 00:34:51.179
- Take extinction, for example. It's desperately sad that
934
00:34:51.179 --> 00:34:52.965
- this is happening, and I and I don't
935
00:34:52.965 --> 00:34:55.125
- I don't want the sixth mass extinction to
936
00:34:55.125 --> 00:34:55.625
- happen.
937
00:34:55.925 --> 00:34:58.005
- But it's the sixth mass extinction because there
938
00:34:58.005 --> 00:35:00.885
- have been five more, five previous ones. It's
939
00:35:00.885 --> 00:35:03.125
- a natural phenomenon that happens on Earth. It
940
00:35:03.125 --> 00:35:05.224
- just happens to be accelerated by us.
941
00:35:06.860 --> 00:35:09.260
- I'm sure, you know, from the perspective of
942
00:35:09.260 --> 00:35:09.760
- rocks,
943
00:35:10.380 --> 00:35:12.559
- all of this that's happening now is just
944
00:35:12.860 --> 00:35:15.099
- a tiny little blip in the history of
945
00:35:15.099 --> 00:35:16.000
- the Earth that
946
00:35:16.860 --> 00:35:18.460
- kind of doesn't really give a shit what
947
00:35:18.460 --> 00:35:19.599
- we do. Like,
948
00:35:20.075 --> 00:35:22.075
- something in the future will happen with or
949
00:35:22.075 --> 00:35:23.454
- without us. So
950
00:35:24.394 --> 00:35:24.795
- it's like
951
00:35:25.755 --> 00:35:26.255
- yeah.
952
00:35:27.755 --> 00:35:29.135
- It is desperately sad,
953
00:35:29.515 --> 00:35:30.015
- but
954
00:35:31.115 --> 00:35:31.934
- it's sad
955
00:35:32.315 --> 00:35:34.095
- mainly for the reason that
956
00:35:35.269 --> 00:35:37.589
- I feel that we the science and everything
957
00:35:37.589 --> 00:35:39.609
- is so clear, and we we could mitigate
958
00:35:39.750 --> 00:35:42.389
- it like that if we had collective governance
959
00:35:42.389 --> 00:35:43.449
- and power to do that.
960
00:35:44.069 --> 00:35:44.569
- But
961
00:35:45.190 --> 00:35:47.210
- such are the systems that we've set up.
962
00:35:47.750 --> 00:35:48.809
- Obviously, we can't,
963
00:35:49.335 --> 00:35:51.894
- And it feels like this this slow decline
964
00:35:51.894 --> 00:35:54.394
- into something very tragic that's gonna happen.
965
00:35:54.934 --> 00:35:55.434
- But
966
00:35:56.534 --> 00:35:57.514
- at the same time,
967
00:35:57.974 --> 00:36:00.295
- we are nature. We are nature doing that
968
00:36:00.295 --> 00:36:00.954
- to nature,
969
00:36:01.530 --> 00:36:03.530
- and there's there's no division between us and
970
00:36:03.530 --> 00:36:05.610
- nature. So I'm I'm a bit like
971
00:36:06.090 --> 00:36:07.929
- I don't know. It's not a deterministic view
972
00:36:07.929 --> 00:36:09.849
- that we are we are screwing the planet
973
00:36:09.849 --> 00:36:12.030
- up because that's what that should happen, but
974
00:36:12.090 --> 00:36:12.590
- but
975
00:36:13.385 --> 00:36:16.025
- I yeah. A a mix of conflicting thoughts.
976
00:36:16.025 --> 00:36:18.184
- But Earlier on, you said that people were
977
00:36:18.184 --> 00:36:20.184
- more interested when you started to get into
978
00:36:20.184 --> 00:36:21.864
- the imagination side of things. But can you
979
00:36:21.864 --> 00:36:23.704
- tell me a bit about what people's reaction
980
00:36:23.704 --> 00:36:26.105
- is to you talking about those geopolitical things?
981
00:36:26.105 --> 00:36:27.724
- Talking about the Donald Trump.
982
00:36:28.210 --> 00:36:30.690
- Talking about being on the, you know, on
983
00:36:30.690 --> 00:36:31.190
- on
984
00:36:32.130 --> 00:36:34.849
- the political map between Russia and America? Do
985
00:36:35.250 --> 00:36:37.809
- is it something that's part of their day
986
00:36:37.809 --> 00:36:38.630
- to day thinking?
987
00:36:41.905 --> 00:36:43.525
- It is very much so.
988
00:36:44.144 --> 00:36:45.525
- Certainly in that region,
989
00:36:46.704 --> 00:36:47.204
- people
990
00:36:48.625 --> 00:36:51.605
- really respond passionately to that and with heart.
991
00:36:51.824 --> 00:36:52.324
- But
992
00:36:52.704 --> 00:36:55.339
- for for, you know, perhaps for UK audiences,
993
00:36:55.559 --> 00:36:57.799
- it was kind of a surprise that Donald
994
00:36:57.799 --> 00:36:59.900
- Trump was going after Greenland.
995
00:37:00.199 --> 00:37:00.699
- And,
996
00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:02.139
- you know, the the
997
00:37:02.519 --> 00:37:04.139
- the notion of Arctic geopolitics
998
00:37:04.440 --> 00:37:05.500
- being important
999
00:37:05.905 --> 00:37:08.644
- was kind of maybe news to us, basically.
1000
00:37:08.704 --> 00:37:10.485
- But for people in that region,
1001
00:37:11.345 --> 00:37:13.105
- it's kind of been going on for years.
1002
00:37:13.105 --> 00:37:15.204
- You know? Trump just saying this again
1003
00:37:16.385 --> 00:37:18.305
- or or saying this thing about Greenland. It's
1004
00:37:18.305 --> 00:37:19.204
- kinda like, well,
1005
00:37:20.599 --> 00:37:23.719
- big questions about Arctic ownership and politics have
1006
00:37:23.719 --> 00:37:25.900
- been on the cards for a long time.
1007
00:37:26.360 --> 00:37:26.860
- And
1008
00:37:31.320 --> 00:37:32.059
- I think
1009
00:37:32.985 --> 00:37:33.885
- I think
1010
00:37:36.265 --> 00:37:38.204
- people people are very much aware of it,
1011
00:37:38.744 --> 00:37:40.204
- and no one
1012
00:37:41.065 --> 00:37:42.585
- well, I I I guess you've got a
1013
00:37:42.585 --> 00:37:44.664
- culture, you know, in all of those countries
1014
00:37:44.664 --> 00:37:46.825
- where people are very connected to nature, and
1015
00:37:46.825 --> 00:37:48.765
- nature is essentially the industry,
1016
00:37:49.359 --> 00:37:50.099
- you know, whether
1017
00:37:50.719 --> 00:37:53.519
- it's fishing, whether it's hunting, whether it's oil
1018
00:37:53.519 --> 00:37:54.260
- or whatever.
1019
00:37:56.079 --> 00:37:57.300
- It's based around nature.
1020
00:37:58.559 --> 00:37:59.059
- And
1021
00:38:00.480 --> 00:38:01.219
- I guess
1022
00:38:05.635 --> 00:38:06.614
- I think I think
1023
00:38:07.155 --> 00:38:08.454
- people seem to be,
1024
00:38:09.715 --> 00:38:11.795
- I I I guess, looking for some sort
1025
00:38:11.795 --> 00:38:13.014
- of, you know,
1026
00:38:14.199 --> 00:38:16.679
- fair fair governance. No one's saying, oh, we
1027
00:38:16.679 --> 00:38:18.619
- need to claim and own this for ourselves.
1028
00:38:19.400 --> 00:38:20.699
- But I think
1029
00:38:21.719 --> 00:38:22.219
- concern
1030
00:38:22.920 --> 00:38:23.900
- for what happens
1031
00:38:24.280 --> 00:38:25.420
- with essentially
1032
00:38:26.755 --> 00:38:29.235
- big players who are much bigger than those
1033
00:38:29.235 --> 00:38:29.735
- countries
1034
00:38:30.355 --> 00:38:32.114
- getting a slice of the pie. So for
1035
00:38:32.114 --> 00:38:33.655
- instance, on the Arctic Council,
1036
00:38:34.195 --> 00:38:35.494
- you can also get
1037
00:38:35.795 --> 00:38:38.135
- sort of secondary observer status.
1038
00:38:38.670 --> 00:38:40.989
- So you've got, you know, Arctic nations, which
1039
00:38:40.989 --> 00:38:44.109
- are based in the Arctic region, but you've
1040
00:38:44.109 --> 00:38:45.089
- also got,
1041
00:38:45.789 --> 00:38:46.849
- you know, secondary
1042
00:38:47.710 --> 00:38:49.089
- sub status or whatever
1043
00:38:49.469 --> 00:38:51.409
- countries like India, China,
1044
00:38:52.744 --> 00:38:53.405
- The US,
1045
00:38:54.184 --> 00:38:55.704
- although, you know, they've got Alaska. So I
1046
00:38:55.704 --> 00:38:57.644
- think Alaska is in the Arctic Circle.
1047
00:39:00.105 --> 00:39:01.864
- And, of course, Russia, which are much more
1048
00:39:01.864 --> 00:39:03.724
- kind of powerful players and
1049
00:39:07.250 --> 00:39:09.670
- are of concern to, say, the smaller Scandinavian
1050
00:39:10.130 --> 00:39:11.110
- Arctic nations.
1051
00:39:11.809 --> 00:39:12.309
- And,
1052
00:39:14.610 --> 00:39:17.090
- I mean, Greenland's a completely different cattle of
1053
00:39:17.090 --> 00:39:18.550
- fish, and I think there's obviously
1054
00:39:18.849 --> 00:39:20.309
- a huge amount of
1055
00:39:21.344 --> 00:39:22.965
- concern there amongst Danes.
1056
00:39:24.465 --> 00:39:26.485
- But I I think it's this,
1057
00:39:26.864 --> 00:39:27.925
- shall we say,
1058
00:39:28.224 --> 00:39:30.085
- threat to the shakeup of,
1059
00:39:30.784 --> 00:39:31.445
- I guess,
1060
00:39:32.065 --> 00:39:34.864
- traditional relationships to the landscape and traditional notions
1061
00:39:34.864 --> 00:39:37.170
- of identity and about Arcticness and what it
1062
00:39:37.170 --> 00:39:39.429
- means to be in the Arctic region and,
1063
00:39:40.449 --> 00:39:42.050
- who has a right to be there. That
1064
00:39:42.130 --> 00:39:44.449
- I think that that concerns people. Did you
1065
00:39:44.449 --> 00:39:46.789
- see the the northern lights, the aurora borealis?
1066
00:39:47.170 --> 00:39:49.349
- I did. You know what? You got people
1067
00:39:49.824 --> 00:39:52.224
- flying in from all over and paying thousands
1068
00:39:52.224 --> 00:39:52.885
- of pounds
1069
00:39:53.265 --> 00:39:55.605
- to get a northern lights experience.
1070
00:39:55.985 --> 00:39:57.125
- And I was just
1071
00:39:57.664 --> 00:40:00.324
- there on my skis in a little hut
1072
00:40:00.465 --> 00:40:00.965
- in,
1073
00:40:02.304 --> 00:40:04.704
- literally the first night that I went out
1074
00:40:04.704 --> 00:40:05.265
- in the,
1075
00:40:06.119 --> 00:40:08.359
- next to the border river between Russian and
1076
00:40:08.440 --> 00:40:09.319
- Russia and nor
1077
00:40:09.880 --> 00:40:11.420
- Norway where I started.
1078
00:40:12.920 --> 00:40:14.539
- It's very kinda small,
1079
00:40:16.519 --> 00:40:19.485
- incredible natural forest called the Pasvik Forest in
1080
00:40:19.485 --> 00:40:21.644
- Norway. There was a little free nature hut
1081
00:40:21.644 --> 00:40:22.144
- there
1082
00:40:22.525 --> 00:40:24.365
- and went outside at the end of the
1083
00:40:24.365 --> 00:40:26.925
- day at about seven or 08:00 and just
1084
00:40:26.925 --> 00:40:28.545
- got the most incredible
1085
00:40:29.325 --> 00:40:31.585
- display of northern lights, like,
1086
00:40:32.570 --> 00:40:33.869
- for free. You know?
1087
00:40:34.409 --> 00:40:34.730
- Mhmm.
1088
00:40:35.289 --> 00:40:36.989
- It it it was quite
1089
00:40:37.530 --> 00:40:40.030
- quite astonishing. You know, often, I think
1090
00:40:40.329 --> 00:40:42.269
- smartphone cameras kind of,
1091
00:40:43.050 --> 00:40:43.869
- I don't know,
1092
00:40:44.489 --> 00:40:47.964
- jazz jazz the northern lights up, but I've
1093
00:40:47.964 --> 00:40:49.025
- never seen them
1094
00:40:49.405 --> 00:40:51.804
- when they're actually that jazzy, but to the
1095
00:40:51.804 --> 00:40:54.204
- eye. Yeah. They were so green and wild
1096
00:40:54.204 --> 00:40:56.445
- and dancing. Amazing. And that was that was
1097
00:40:56.445 --> 00:40:58.925
- really special, but they didn't appear for me
1098
00:40:58.925 --> 00:41:00.764
- again or at least I wasn't outside a
1099
00:41:00.764 --> 00:41:02.224
- particular time. Yeah.
1100
00:41:03.019 --> 00:41:05.760
- You know, by even by, what, early April,
1101
00:41:06.619 --> 00:41:07.760
- you're getting, like,
1102
00:41:10.380 --> 00:41:11.599
- 11:11
1103
00:41:11.900 --> 00:41:13.119
- ten or 11PM
1104
00:41:13.659 --> 00:41:15.659
- darkness. So it's it's really you know, you
1105
00:41:15.659 --> 00:41:17.339
- have to stay up to see see the
1106
00:41:17.339 --> 00:41:18.135
- northern lights.
1107
00:41:19.894 --> 00:41:21.574
- Okay. So I I don't think I can
1108
00:41:21.574 --> 00:41:23.655
- keep you for too much longer or indeed
1109
00:41:23.655 --> 00:41:25.094
- the or indeed the listeners. But,
1110
00:41:27.335 --> 00:41:29.574
- I'm sort of I'm I'm aware of the
1111
00:41:29.574 --> 00:41:31.094
- fact that quite a lot of our listeners
1112
00:41:31.094 --> 00:41:33.574
- are physicists, and maybe they don't engage with
1113
00:41:33.574 --> 00:41:35.660
- art a lot. Maybe they do, but some
1114
00:41:35.660 --> 00:41:37.880
- of them won't do. And I'm I'm wondering,
1115
00:41:39.300 --> 00:41:41.219
- if there's a question in their head, which
1116
00:41:41.219 --> 00:41:41.960
- might be,
1117
00:41:42.420 --> 00:41:44.760
- you know, what what's the point of doing
1118
00:41:44.820 --> 00:41:47.059
- this art? Is it actually gonna make any
1119
00:41:47.059 --> 00:41:49.825
- difference? Is it is it just for people
1120
00:41:49.825 --> 00:41:51.985
- to enjoy something, or is it gonna have
1121
00:41:51.985 --> 00:41:52.724
- an impact?
1122
00:41:56.065 --> 00:41:56.805
- Good question,
1123
00:41:59.025 --> 00:42:01.285
- to which there's no one clear response.
1124
00:42:01.744 --> 00:42:02.405
- I mean,
1125
00:42:02.719 --> 00:42:04.579
- you know, I work in the theater,
1126
00:42:04.880 --> 00:42:06.420
- in the left field theater.
1127
00:42:08.639 --> 00:42:09.139
- And,
1128
00:42:11.119 --> 00:42:12.819
- you know, in a world of Netflix
1129
00:42:13.119 --> 00:42:14.500
- and all of that,
1130
00:42:15.054 --> 00:42:16.594
- you know, my audience
1131
00:42:17.054 --> 00:42:17.715
- is tiny.
1132
00:42:18.414 --> 00:42:18.914
- And
1133
00:42:19.375 --> 00:42:21.534
- I'm for quite a bit of a realist
1134
00:42:21.534 --> 00:42:24.255
- about, you know, obviously, in funding applications and
1135
00:42:24.255 --> 00:42:25.695
- things, you have to sort of give quite
1136
00:42:25.695 --> 00:42:26.275
- a utilitarian
1137
00:42:27.079 --> 00:42:29.079
- argument as to, you know, doing this because
1138
00:42:29.079 --> 00:42:30.519
- you're going to change minds, and you're gonna
1139
00:42:30.519 --> 00:42:32.059
- have an effect on, you know, the
1140
00:42:32.360 --> 00:42:34.760
- geopolitics, climate change, or whatever. You know? As
1141
00:42:34.760 --> 00:42:37.800
- a theater maker, I'm not. And I, my
1142
00:42:37.800 --> 00:42:39.739
- audience is going to be small. And
1143
00:42:40.144 --> 00:42:42.625
- so the effects that I'm looking to make
1144
00:42:42.625 --> 00:42:43.284
- is not,
1145
00:42:44.224 --> 00:42:44.724
- quantitative.
1146
00:42:45.184 --> 00:42:46.085
- It's qualitative.
1147
00:42:47.264 --> 00:42:47.764
- So
1148
00:42:48.704 --> 00:42:51.744
- my feeling is it's like, okay. Well, actually,
1149
00:42:51.744 --> 00:42:54.304
- in this small space of live performance, which
1150
00:42:54.304 --> 00:42:54.964
- is increasingly
1151
00:42:57.640 --> 00:43:00.300
- disappearing or under threat with, you know,
1152
00:43:01.400 --> 00:43:03.900
- either commercial TV or commercial theater or whatever,
1153
00:43:07.000 --> 00:43:09.000
- is the quality of what we're able to
1154
00:43:09.000 --> 00:43:12.164
- do in the live space actually a really
1155
00:43:12.164 --> 00:43:12.664
- unique
1156
00:43:13.204 --> 00:43:16.264
- experience for people that is able to change
1157
00:43:16.644 --> 00:43:18.804
- hearts and minds and perhaps just a small
1158
00:43:18.804 --> 00:43:19.704
- group of people,
1159
00:43:21.525 --> 00:43:23.670
- in a completely different way, in a way
1160
00:43:23.670 --> 00:43:25.750
- that is not replicated in any other form
1161
00:43:25.750 --> 00:43:26.329
- of culture.
1162
00:43:28.309 --> 00:43:30.309
- Is that going to lead people to take
1163
00:43:30.309 --> 00:43:33.050
- up pitchforks and fight against climate change?
1164
00:43:33.429 --> 00:43:34.409
- Probably not.
1165
00:43:35.109 --> 00:43:35.609
- So
1166
00:43:37.905 --> 00:43:40.704
- it's it's more about, okay. Well, we're looking
1167
00:43:40.704 --> 00:43:41.204
- at
1168
00:43:42.144 --> 00:43:44.644
- trying to create an artwork. This is about
1169
00:43:44.945 --> 00:43:47.125
- trying to offer a beautiful gift
1170
00:43:47.664 --> 00:43:49.925
- and quality of life to the people
1171
00:43:50.639 --> 00:43:51.380
- or nature
1172
00:43:52.480 --> 00:43:54.239
- in the room with you or outdoors with
1173
00:43:54.239 --> 00:43:55.940
- you at that particular time.
1174
00:43:56.639 --> 00:43:57.380
- I suppose
1175
00:43:57.760 --> 00:43:59.199
- the way of seeing that is just like
1176
00:43:59.839 --> 00:44:01.440
- yeah. A way of seeing this kind of
1177
00:44:01.440 --> 00:44:04.260
- theater is just a really a gift of
1178
00:44:04.525 --> 00:44:05.184
- a qualitative
1179
00:44:05.485 --> 00:44:06.864
- and beautiful experience
1180
00:44:07.405 --> 00:44:09.425
- that you won't find anywhere else.
1181
00:44:11.005 --> 00:44:13.184
- So shall we say, you know, niche theater
1182
00:44:13.405 --> 00:44:14.065
- is about
1183
00:44:14.445 --> 00:44:14.945
- boutique,
1184
00:44:15.565 --> 00:44:16.065
- special,
1185
00:44:17.159 --> 00:44:18.619
- once in a lifetime experience
1186
00:44:19.000 --> 00:44:19.819
- rather than
1187
00:44:20.199 --> 00:44:21.339
- a bums on seats,
1188
00:44:21.880 --> 00:44:24.059
- you know, can we make people laugh approach.
1189
00:44:24.760 --> 00:44:26.299
- If people would like to
1190
00:44:26.679 --> 00:44:29.175
- experience your theater, and I know I would,
1191
00:44:29.255 --> 00:44:31.574
- how would we do that? I guess, first
1192
00:44:31.574 --> 00:44:33.414
- up is that I'm going to put a
1193
00:44:33.414 --> 00:44:35.914
- lot of the documentation video
1194
00:44:36.695 --> 00:44:37.195
- and,
1195
00:44:37.655 --> 00:44:40.775
- stills and audio onto an online platform over
1196
00:44:40.775 --> 00:44:42.535
- the next few months, and that'll be, you
1197
00:44:42.535 --> 00:44:44.719
- know, where I can share at least first
1198
00:44:44.719 --> 00:44:46.019
- up since the journey.
1199
00:44:46.719 --> 00:44:49.199
- The show will probably take about one or
1200
00:44:49.199 --> 00:44:50.739
- two years to develop,
1201
00:44:51.199 --> 00:44:54.799
- so I devised work, and we'll iteratively develop
1202
00:44:54.799 --> 00:44:55.699
- it in rehearsals
1203
00:44:56.159 --> 00:44:58.019
- and start presenting it in
1204
00:44:58.335 --> 00:44:59.234
- stages and festivals,
1205
00:44:59.775 --> 00:45:01.554
- as or next year. So,
1206
00:45:02.655 --> 00:45:03.635
- watch this space.
1207
00:45:04.494 --> 00:45:07.375
- You know, theater's a slow burner, but, I
1208
00:45:07.375 --> 00:45:08.594
- need, you know,
1209
00:45:08.974 --> 00:45:09.474
- fundraising.
1210
00:45:09.775 --> 00:45:10.275
- And,
1211
00:45:11.135 --> 00:45:11.635
- yeah,
1212
00:45:11.949 --> 00:45:13.789
- to to to to get the show over
1213
00:45:13.789 --> 00:45:15.949
- the line, need to need to get some
1214
00:45:15.949 --> 00:45:17.170
- luck from the arts council.
1215
00:45:21.630 --> 00:45:23.309
- We wish Tom all the luck with the
1216
00:45:23.309 --> 00:45:25.534
- arts council for the funding for that and
1217
00:45:25.534 --> 00:45:27.985
- hopefully some of you will be able to
1218
00:45:27.985 --> 00:45:30.436
- experience that theater. But we turn now to
1219
00:45:30.436 --> 00:45:32.887
- a video game which is all born out
1220
00:45:32.887 --> 00:45:35.338
- of the experience a composer had talking to
1221
00:45:35.338 --> 00:45:38.309
- their child in the car about the climate
1222
00:45:38.309 --> 00:45:38.809
- emergency.
1223
00:45:42.070 --> 00:45:45.190
- So I'm Naomi Hart, and I am a
1224
00:45:45.190 --> 00:45:45.690
- composer.
1225
00:45:46.470 --> 00:45:46.970
- And,
1226
00:45:47.829 --> 00:45:49.829
- a few years ago, about five four or
1227
00:45:49.829 --> 00:45:51.590
- five years ago, I did a master's in
1228
00:45:51.590 --> 00:45:52.844
- sound and music for interactive
1229
00:45:53.405 --> 00:45:53.905
- games.
1230
00:45:54.525 --> 00:45:55.025
- And
1231
00:45:55.565 --> 00:45:57.984
- from there, I've been kind of weaving my
1232
00:45:58.364 --> 00:45:58.864
- compositions
1233
00:45:59.244 --> 00:45:59.744
- into,
1234
00:46:01.005 --> 00:46:02.144
- interactive environments,
1235
00:46:02.525 --> 00:46:05.105
- either as personal personal projects or
1236
00:46:05.405 --> 00:46:07.489
- recently as as little commissions.
1237
00:46:08.030 --> 00:46:09.630
- Tell us about the game that you've created.
1238
00:46:09.630 --> 00:46:11.309
- Where did it come from, and can you
1239
00:46:11.309 --> 00:46:13.230
- sort of explain what it is? I mean,
1240
00:46:13.230 --> 00:46:15.469
- people will be able to find the link
1241
00:46:15.469 --> 00:46:18.110
- on Physics World website, physicsworld.com.
1242
00:46:18.110 --> 00:46:20.465
- But if you could sort of tell us
1243
00:46:20.465 --> 00:46:22.305
- what people should expect when they go to
1244
00:46:22.305 --> 00:46:24.465
- that link, that would be great. So I've
1245
00:46:24.465 --> 00:46:26.704
- made a small game in an engine called
1246
00:46:26.704 --> 00:46:27.204
- Bitsy,
1247
00:46:27.505 --> 00:46:28.324
- which is,
1248
00:46:28.785 --> 00:46:30.385
- it's like a very simple kind of game
1249
00:46:30.385 --> 00:46:30.885
- engine,
1250
00:46:31.425 --> 00:46:34.144
- using, like, pixel art and it's like a
1251
00:46:34.144 --> 00:46:35.639
- two d game.
1252
00:46:36.340 --> 00:46:38.179
- When you go to the link, you will
1253
00:46:38.179 --> 00:46:39.239
- have a ten minute
1254
00:46:39.859 --> 00:46:40.359
- story
1255
00:46:40.659 --> 00:46:42.599
- experience where you can move around
1256
00:46:43.380 --> 00:46:44.440
- and chat to people
1257
00:46:46.099 --> 00:46:47.400
- and think about
1258
00:46:47.859 --> 00:46:48.599
- the subjects
1259
00:46:48.980 --> 00:46:49.480
- that
1260
00:46:49.824 --> 00:46:51.765
- are brought up within that experience.
1261
00:46:52.304 --> 00:46:54.304
- And while you do that, you'll hopefully have
1262
00:46:54.304 --> 00:46:56.804
- your headphones on and you'll listen to music
1263
00:46:57.425 --> 00:46:58.164
- that will
1264
00:46:58.545 --> 00:47:00.005
- hopefully make you feel
1265
00:47:00.465 --> 00:47:02.005
- like it's okay.
1266
00:47:02.469 --> 00:47:04.550
- We're all in this together. And, yeah, this
1267
00:47:04.550 --> 00:47:05.769
- is difficult, but
1268
00:47:06.869 --> 00:47:08.809
- we can talk to each other about it.
1269
00:47:08.869 --> 00:47:11.030
- So it's a lovely, lovely thing. I have
1270
00:47:11.030 --> 00:47:12.010
- played the game
1271
00:47:12.390 --> 00:47:13.369
- several times.
1272
00:47:13.989 --> 00:47:16.090
- And that that not because
1273
00:47:16.775 --> 00:47:18.394
- of what I'm about to say,
1274
00:47:18.775 --> 00:47:22.055
- but because it's absolutely beautiful. But what is
1275
00:47:22.215 --> 00:47:23.974
- that's sorry. That is the reason. But this
1276
00:47:23.974 --> 00:47:26.215
- next thing is the reason, which is that
1277
00:47:26.215 --> 00:47:29.039
- I feature in the game, which is which
1278
00:47:29.039 --> 00:47:31.079
- is a delightful thing. I never thought I'd
1279
00:47:31.079 --> 00:47:33.000
- feature in a is it a computer game,
1280
00:47:33.000 --> 00:47:34.440
- a video game? What is it? How do
1281
00:47:34.440 --> 00:47:36.359
- you describe it? Oh, we can call it
1282
00:47:36.359 --> 00:47:38.119
- a video game. Yeah. It's a it's it's
1283
00:47:38.119 --> 00:47:40.359
- a little video game. Amazing. Yeah. You're in
1284
00:47:40.359 --> 00:47:42.914
- video game on Tuesday. Right? Yes. So Yeah.
1285
00:47:43.315 --> 00:47:44.835
- But I wanna get onto the music. But
1286
00:47:44.835 --> 00:47:46.195
- could you tell me a bit about the
1287
00:47:46.195 --> 00:47:48.275
- the the process of creating this? Because it
1288
00:47:48.355 --> 00:47:50.594
- it's sort of it it's come out of
1289
00:47:50.594 --> 00:47:51.875
- explorations of our,
1290
00:47:52.515 --> 00:47:54.855
- our reactions to climate change.
1291
00:47:56.539 --> 00:47:59.099
- Yes. It has. So I think so when
1292
00:47:59.099 --> 00:47:59.760
- I started,
1293
00:48:00.219 --> 00:48:01.900
- thinking about the concept of the game and
1294
00:48:01.900 --> 00:48:03.980
- making the game, I knew that I wanted
1295
00:48:03.980 --> 00:48:05.760
- the music to feel as beautiful
1296
00:48:06.139 --> 00:48:06.639
- as
1297
00:48:07.019 --> 00:48:09.355
- it could be because that was that was
1298
00:48:09.355 --> 00:48:11.114
- in a way gonna be the contrast between
1299
00:48:11.114 --> 00:48:12.494
- the very, very simple game,
1300
00:48:13.594 --> 00:48:14.815
- look and the style
1301
00:48:15.355 --> 00:48:17.035
- and the sort of functionality of the game.
1302
00:48:17.035 --> 00:48:18.394
- And but I wanted the music to just
1303
00:48:18.394 --> 00:48:20.655
- feel really kind of rich and lovely.
1304
00:48:21.809 --> 00:48:23.349
- So I just started kind of,
1305
00:48:23.809 --> 00:48:24.309
- improvising
1306
00:48:24.849 --> 00:48:25.590
- little bits
1307
00:48:25.890 --> 00:48:28.369
- of music on my synthesizer and cello and
1308
00:48:28.369 --> 00:48:28.869
- stuff.
1309
00:48:29.250 --> 00:48:31.170
- And until I came to a point where
1310
00:48:31.170 --> 00:48:32.610
- I just thought, oh, that's that's the right
1311
00:48:32.610 --> 00:48:34.130
- feeling for that part of the game. That's
1312
00:48:34.130 --> 00:48:36.425
- exactly what I want to feel as I
1313
00:48:36.425 --> 00:48:37.864
- start this. And then I also had some,
1314
00:48:37.864 --> 00:48:39.704
- like, placeholder music. So while I was developing
1315
00:48:39.704 --> 00:48:41.405
- the game, I just had sort of ideas,
1316
00:48:41.784 --> 00:48:43.945
- sort of like something like synthesized love, Edgios
1317
00:48:43.945 --> 00:48:45.644
- are gonna be okay here.
1318
00:48:46.184 --> 00:48:47.625
- But I knew that wasn't gonna be the
1319
00:48:47.625 --> 00:48:49.304
- final project, so I had to kinda, like,
1320
00:48:49.304 --> 00:48:51.530
- go back into the music side of things
1321
00:48:51.750 --> 00:48:54.070
- after the game was pretty much finished and
1322
00:48:54.070 --> 00:48:56.329
- be like, right now I'm gonna make
1323
00:48:56.710 --> 00:48:58.469
- the music that I really kind of wanna
1324
00:48:58.469 --> 00:49:00.949
- hear and would delight my ears as a
1325
00:49:00.949 --> 00:49:03.269
- listener. So then I kind of reworked some
1326
00:49:03.269 --> 00:49:04.570
- of those placeholder
1327
00:49:05.030 --> 00:49:06.010
- tunes and,
1328
00:49:07.094 --> 00:49:08.375
- and yeah. And I just sort of happened
1329
00:49:08.375 --> 00:49:09.114
- across some
1330
00:49:09.574 --> 00:49:11.894
- little melodies that I just thought, oh, wow.
1331
00:49:11.894 --> 00:49:14.054
- That's that's really satisfying to me. Like, I
1332
00:49:14.054 --> 00:49:16.215
- really like that. And the nice thing about
1333
00:49:16.215 --> 00:49:18.054
- the brief was so I should mention that
1334
00:49:18.054 --> 00:49:20.819
- this was commissioned by the Yorkshire Sound Women
1335
00:49:20.819 --> 00:49:21.319
- Network,
1336
00:49:21.940 --> 00:49:24.359
- who are a really good organization in Yorkshire.
1337
00:49:24.819 --> 00:49:25.319
- And
1338
00:49:25.779 --> 00:49:28.099
- it was a completely open musical brief, so
1339
00:49:28.099 --> 00:49:30.019
- you could just create whatever you wanted. So
1340
00:49:30.019 --> 00:49:31.699
- that was as a composer, that was just
1341
00:49:31.699 --> 00:49:33.699
- amazing. You've got a a a game that
1342
00:49:33.699 --> 00:49:34.519
- you're creating,
1343
00:49:35.434 --> 00:49:37.195
- and then you're putting music to to it.
1344
00:49:37.195 --> 00:49:38.734
- I'd never composed anything
1345
00:49:39.594 --> 00:49:40.094
- properly.
1346
00:49:40.474 --> 00:49:41.454
- So when
1347
00:49:41.994 --> 00:49:43.594
- so so you're sitting, what, at a at
1348
00:49:43.594 --> 00:49:45.114
- a piano? Are you is that how you
1349
00:49:45.114 --> 00:49:47.454
- compose it? And you're just sort of noodling?
1350
00:49:47.514 --> 00:49:49.579
- How does it work? I do noodle. That
1351
00:49:49.579 --> 00:49:51.820
- is my process. Yeah. Lots of people don't.
1352
00:49:51.820 --> 00:49:53.260
- Lots of people kind of they have a
1353
00:49:53.260 --> 00:49:54.460
- plan, they can hear it in their heads,
1354
00:49:54.460 --> 00:49:56.460
- and then they start, you know, mapping all
1355
00:49:56.460 --> 00:49:59.199
- that. I definitely just start by,
1356
00:50:00.300 --> 00:50:02.699
- playing on whatever instrument I decide I'm gonna
1357
00:50:02.699 --> 00:50:03.199
- use.
1358
00:50:04.554 --> 00:50:06.635
- Synthesizer mainly, so I had that set up
1359
00:50:06.635 --> 00:50:07.695
- beside me, and
1360
00:50:07.994 --> 00:50:09.355
- and I am. I'm just kind of I
1361
00:50:09.355 --> 00:50:11.535
- just let myself go completely free
1362
00:50:11.914 --> 00:50:13.675
- free form and just,
1363
00:50:14.155 --> 00:50:15.295
- just make some sounds.
1364
00:50:16.170 --> 00:50:17.929
- Then what tends to happen then is that
1365
00:50:17.929 --> 00:50:19.369
- I'll find something that I'm just like, oh,
1366
00:50:19.369 --> 00:50:22.089
- that's interesting, oh, that's a bit unexpected, so
1367
00:50:22.089 --> 00:50:24.969
- I've been recording something going along and then
1368
00:50:24.969 --> 00:50:27.210
- I'll then create more music in response to
1369
00:50:27.210 --> 00:50:28.349
- those things
1370
00:50:28.809 --> 00:50:29.309
- and
1371
00:50:29.694 --> 00:50:31.054
- piece it together a bit like that. So
1372
00:50:31.054 --> 00:50:32.355
- it's a bit like a kind of collage
1373
00:50:32.414 --> 00:50:32.914
- sometimes.
1374
00:50:33.934 --> 00:50:36.255
- Things that I'm really happy with musically and
1375
00:50:36.255 --> 00:50:36.755
- then,
1376
00:50:37.534 --> 00:50:38.974
- and then I might just start playing along
1377
00:50:38.974 --> 00:50:41.614
- and improvising over those and I just tend
1378
00:50:41.614 --> 00:50:42.194
- to then
1379
00:50:43.409 --> 00:50:45.730
- find things organically that I'm like, oh, yeah.
1380
00:50:45.730 --> 00:50:46.869
- That sounds great there.
1381
00:50:47.170 --> 00:50:48.690
- Or that bit didn't work. I'm gonna do
1382
00:50:48.690 --> 00:50:49.969
- a retake. But I think I I think
1383
00:50:49.969 --> 00:50:51.010
- I sort of know what I need to
1384
00:50:51.010 --> 00:50:52.949
- do to fix that to make that nicer.
1385
00:50:54.369 --> 00:50:56.769
- Yeah. So do you do you involve anybody
1386
00:50:56.769 --> 00:50:58.585
- else in the process? Like, were you there
1387
00:50:58.664 --> 00:51:00.505
- is there anybody that you would trust to
1388
00:51:00.505 --> 00:51:03.625
- go, I've is this is this right? Is
1389
00:51:03.625 --> 00:51:05.304
- this does this feel do you feel what
1390
00:51:05.304 --> 00:51:06.824
- I'm supposed to you're supposed to oh, I
1391
00:51:06.824 --> 00:51:08.344
- don't know what it is, but do you
1392
00:51:08.344 --> 00:51:10.445
- ask questions of other people in the processes?
1393
00:51:10.505 --> 00:51:12.585
- I do. I do. I mean, both me
1394
00:51:12.585 --> 00:51:14.250
- and my husband work from home. So if
1395
00:51:14.250 --> 00:51:16.650
- I think I've got something good, I'm like,
1396
00:51:16.650 --> 00:51:18.010
- oh, can you just listen to this? Do
1397
00:51:18.010 --> 00:51:18.989
- you think that's nice?
1398
00:51:19.289 --> 00:51:20.590
- And, you know,
1399
00:51:21.050 --> 00:51:23.050
- more often than not, he'll be like, yeah.
1400
00:51:23.050 --> 00:51:24.969
- Or sometimes he's a little bit like, yeah.
1401
00:51:24.969 --> 00:51:25.630
- It's okay.
1402
00:51:26.655 --> 00:51:28.094
- But at the end of the day, I
1403
00:51:28.094 --> 00:51:30.094
- think I tend to know personally if it's
1404
00:51:30.094 --> 00:51:31.695
- something I really like because I'll start to
1405
00:51:31.695 --> 00:51:32.974
- kinda want to listen to it over and
1406
00:51:32.974 --> 00:51:34.414
- over again. Like, if I've made something that
1407
00:51:34.414 --> 00:51:35.954
- really delights my own ears,
1408
00:51:36.335 --> 00:51:38.735
- I'll be like, oh, yeah. That's that's gold,
1409
00:51:38.735 --> 00:51:39.954
- and I'll be like that.
1410
00:51:40.789 --> 00:51:42.389
- Yes. Well, I can tell you it delighted
1411
00:51:42.389 --> 00:51:44.489
- my ears when I was playing the game.
1412
00:51:44.869 --> 00:51:46.550
- And the other thing about the game is
1413
00:51:46.550 --> 00:51:48.389
- that there is this story in it. So
1414
00:51:48.389 --> 00:51:49.130
- there's this
1415
00:51:50.070 --> 00:51:50.570
- mixture
1416
00:51:51.110 --> 00:51:54.309
- of music and storytelling, which are helping people
1417
00:51:54.309 --> 00:51:56.394
- who are playing their game to explore their
1418
00:51:56.695 --> 00:51:57.355
- own feelings
1419
00:51:57.655 --> 00:52:00.315
- and reactions to the climate crisis.
1420
00:52:00.695 --> 00:52:03.255
- Yes. Is it a crisis now or disaster?
1421
00:52:03.255 --> 00:52:05.014
- I don't know quite what what stage we're
1422
00:52:05.014 --> 00:52:06.855
- at at this particular moment. I don't know.
1423
00:52:06.855 --> 00:52:08.723
- Well, the wording in the brief that we
1424
00:52:08.723 --> 00:52:10.858
- had from the commission said that if you
1425
00:52:10.858 --> 00:52:12.992
- wanted to explore themes about the climate emergency,
1426
00:52:12.992 --> 00:52:15.661
- so that was Okay. That was the the
1427
00:52:15.661 --> 00:52:17.795
- wording there. You you can't. We didn't have
1428
00:52:17.795 --> 00:52:19.930
- to, but I did. Yes. Okay. That's good.
1429
00:52:19.930 --> 00:52:22.065
- So how how did that how did that
1430
00:52:22.144 --> 00:52:24.065
- feel for you then? What was your first
1431
00:52:24.065 --> 00:52:25.664
- reaction? Did you go through a few different
1432
00:52:25.664 --> 00:52:28.304
- ideas before landing on this one? I did
1433
00:52:28.304 --> 00:52:29.684
- actually. My first
1434
00:52:30.144 --> 00:52:31.605
- idea was to
1435
00:52:32.144 --> 00:52:34.530
- think about how do you feel about it
1436
00:52:34.769 --> 00:52:36.769
- today? Like in this moment. And I thought
1437
00:52:36.769 --> 00:52:38.610
- I could create a game where you could
1438
00:52:38.610 --> 00:52:40.390
- choose whether you're feeling grief,
1439
00:52:41.250 --> 00:52:41.750
- despair,
1440
00:52:43.010 --> 00:52:43.510
- neutral.
1441
00:52:44.050 --> 00:52:45.489
- You know, you might be thinking of other
1442
00:52:45.489 --> 00:52:47.250
- things that day. And then there might be
1443
00:52:47.250 --> 00:52:48.929
- like little offshoot games that you could go
1444
00:52:48.929 --> 00:52:51.034
- and explore, but that just didn't really come
1445
00:52:51.034 --> 00:52:53.275
- to anything. And then when I when I
1446
00:52:53.275 --> 00:52:55.034
- decided I was gonna make it in Bitsy,
1447
00:52:55.034 --> 00:52:57.755
- which is, it's got really tight constraints on
1448
00:52:57.755 --> 00:52:58.574
- how you can
1449
00:52:59.034 --> 00:53:00.474
- create a game in that. So you can't
1450
00:53:00.474 --> 00:53:02.369
- necessarily point and click and do that sort
1451
00:53:02.369 --> 00:53:03.789
- of thing anymore walking around.
1452
00:53:04.250 --> 00:53:04.750
- So,
1453
00:53:05.289 --> 00:53:07.050
- I then realized like, no, that's, that's just
1454
00:53:07.050 --> 00:53:08.590
- not gonna work. So then I,
1455
00:53:09.050 --> 00:53:10.429
- I think that I just,
1456
00:53:10.730 --> 00:53:12.590
- I watched a lot of Bitsy games
1457
00:53:12.890 --> 00:53:13.390
- and
1458
00:53:13.944 --> 00:53:15.545
- the kind of, the theme that runs through
1459
00:53:15.545 --> 00:53:17.144
- these is that they can be just really
1460
00:53:17.144 --> 00:53:18.045
- quiet, intimate
1461
00:53:18.585 --> 00:53:19.085
- storytelling
1462
00:53:19.864 --> 00:53:22.344
- from a very kind of personal viewpoint. And
1463
00:53:22.344 --> 00:53:23.784
- that's what's, that's what a lot of people
1464
00:53:23.784 --> 00:53:25.864
- really like about them is that you're just
1465
00:53:25.864 --> 00:53:28.424
- getting these like snapshots of someone else's life
1466
00:53:28.424 --> 00:53:31.260
- or something that's happened. And I just thought,
1467
00:53:31.260 --> 00:53:32.700
- oh, that's quite an interesting angle. Let's maybe
1468
00:53:32.700 --> 00:53:35.260
- just start with that thing that my kids
1469
00:53:35.260 --> 00:53:37.039
- said to me about the climate emergency
1470
00:53:37.420 --> 00:53:40.059
- eight years ago, which absolutely broke my heart.
1471
00:53:40.059 --> 00:53:40.559
- And
1472
00:53:41.019 --> 00:53:41.519
- maybe
1473
00:53:42.140 --> 00:53:44.300
- then I could, oh, well, I should, you
1474
00:53:44.300 --> 00:53:45.315
- know, I've got friends that
1475
00:53:46.114 --> 00:53:48.755
- are, you know, involved in science or climate
1476
00:53:48.755 --> 00:53:50.994
- and maybe I can chat to them about
1477
00:53:50.994 --> 00:53:53.074
- how they manage their feelings in the face
1478
00:53:53.074 --> 00:53:53.574
- of,
1479
00:53:54.434 --> 00:53:56.034
- you know, how we're all trying to deal
1480
00:53:56.034 --> 00:53:57.554
- with it these days, you know, because we're
1481
00:53:57.554 --> 00:53:58.230
- sort of,
1482
00:53:58.630 --> 00:54:00.170
- we're like a number of years into
1483
00:54:00.630 --> 00:54:03.670
- this being the norm now. And it's, I
1484
00:54:03.670 --> 00:54:05.349
- think it is an interesting point to say,
1485
00:54:05.349 --> 00:54:07.369
- like, how, how have we all kind of,
1486
00:54:08.469 --> 00:54:10.389
- coped this far and how do we all
1487
00:54:10.389 --> 00:54:11.849
- get on with our day to day lives
1488
00:54:11.989 --> 00:54:13.609
- when this is going on in the background?
1489
00:54:13.670 --> 00:54:14.114
- And,
1490
00:54:15.394 --> 00:54:17.155
- so, yeah, it just just just felt like,
1491
00:54:17.155 --> 00:54:18.514
- oh, yeah. That just felt right. And then
1492
00:54:18.514 --> 00:54:20.034
- I could see that there was a narrative
1493
00:54:20.034 --> 00:54:21.474
- knitting together. I could go and talk to
1494
00:54:21.474 --> 00:54:22.675
- my child at the end as well of
1495
00:54:22.675 --> 00:54:24.295
- the game and kind of bring it all
1496
00:54:24.434 --> 00:54:26.054
- bring it all in a neat narrative.
1497
00:54:26.780 --> 00:54:27.599
- Yeah. Absolutely.
1498
00:54:27.900 --> 00:54:29.579
- I don't I don't want to say too
1499
00:54:29.579 --> 00:54:31.260
- much about what happens in the story because
1500
00:54:31.260 --> 00:54:32.460
- I want people to go and play the
1501
00:54:32.460 --> 00:54:33.980
- game. It want to take them what did
1502
00:54:33.980 --> 00:54:35.339
- you say about ten minutes to play the
1503
00:54:35.339 --> 00:54:37.339
- game? It's about ten minutes. Yeah. Yeah. So
1504
00:54:37.339 --> 00:54:39.500
- I think let's not let's not do many
1505
00:54:39.500 --> 00:54:41.339
- spoilers on the game because I want people
1506
00:54:41.339 --> 00:54:42.485
- to go and play the ten minutes of
1507
00:54:42.485 --> 00:54:44.164
- your life if you're listening to this podcast.
1508
00:54:44.164 --> 00:54:44.664
- Just
1509
00:54:44.965 --> 00:54:46.644
- find at the end of it a computer
1510
00:54:46.644 --> 00:54:49.284
- and some headphones ideally to enjoy that and,
1511
00:54:49.605 --> 00:54:51.005
- we'll do that. But I just I want
1512
00:54:51.125 --> 00:54:52.885
- I wanted to just explore that a little
1513
00:54:52.885 --> 00:54:53.945
- bit with you because
1514
00:54:54.244 --> 00:54:55.590
- we're both parents of
1515
00:54:56.150 --> 00:54:58.710
- similar age children. Right? Yes. It's a,
1516
00:54:59.910 --> 00:55:00.890
- I think that
1517
00:55:01.670 --> 00:55:04.150
- it adds another aspect. I think most people
1518
00:55:04.150 --> 00:55:06.070
- will know people in their lives where they've
1519
00:55:06.070 --> 00:55:08.469
- got children or not who are younger than
1520
00:55:08.469 --> 00:55:10.329
- them and who for whom this climate
1521
00:55:10.954 --> 00:55:12.494
- emergency is going to be,
1522
00:55:13.675 --> 00:55:15.434
- more a part of their lives as they
1523
00:55:15.434 --> 00:55:16.954
- as they grow older. And if we love
1524
00:55:16.954 --> 00:55:18.954
- and care for those people, then that it
1525
00:55:18.954 --> 00:55:20.335
- adds to our own
1526
00:55:23.289 --> 00:55:26.170
- feelings about it, really. And and and it
1527
00:55:26.170 --> 00:55:26.829
- it seems
1528
00:55:27.929 --> 00:55:30.170
- it it seems really strange to me that
1529
00:55:30.170 --> 00:55:32.489
- there would be people who are being so
1530
00:55:32.489 --> 00:55:34.889
- incredibly selfish about their lives that they would
1531
00:55:34.889 --> 00:55:35.885
- just forget
1532
00:55:36.344 --> 00:55:38.344
- that and do all of the things anyway
1533
00:55:38.344 --> 00:55:39.965
- that they were going to do because
1534
00:55:40.265 --> 00:55:42.265
- they only live once and it's their life
1535
00:55:42.265 --> 00:55:44.664
- and the next generation can sort it. It
1536
00:55:44.664 --> 00:55:46.525
- seems an odd way of doing it. And
1537
00:55:46.585 --> 00:55:47.885
- and I think it's really
1538
00:55:48.469 --> 00:55:50.949
- lovely that you've made a game here, the
1539
00:55:50.949 --> 00:55:54.569
- music associated with it, which enables parents
1540
00:55:55.190 --> 00:55:56.329
- in a world of,
1541
00:55:57.269 --> 00:56:00.315
- you know, fast paced social media and
1542
00:56:01.994 --> 00:56:02.494
- Netflix
1543
00:56:02.954 --> 00:56:05.434
- edited documentaries where they change the scene every
1544
00:56:05.434 --> 00:56:07.454
- three seconds. To have that kind of
1545
00:56:07.755 --> 00:56:08.815
- slow paced
1546
00:56:09.675 --> 00:56:11.855
- Yeah. Experience to to actually
1547
00:56:12.410 --> 00:56:13.930
- take time out and think about it is
1548
00:56:13.930 --> 00:56:15.450
- a is a really valuable thing for me
1549
00:56:15.450 --> 00:56:16.809
- as a parent. I'm sure it is for
1550
00:56:16.809 --> 00:56:17.869
- lots of other people.
1551
00:56:20.410 --> 00:56:20.730
- Mhmm. It it's
1552
00:56:22.809 --> 00:56:24.730
- in the game, there's there's a moment which
1553
00:56:24.730 --> 00:56:27.255
- is kind of you you've you've explored the
1554
00:56:27.255 --> 00:56:28.474
- the shock, the,
1555
00:56:29.414 --> 00:56:31.594
- well, the emotion that you had when your
1556
00:56:32.614 --> 00:56:35.114
- child said what they said. Yes.
1557
00:56:38.880 --> 00:56:40.639
- Was that the moment where it kind of
1558
00:56:40.639 --> 00:56:43.119
- hit home or you already be with with
1559
00:56:43.119 --> 00:56:45.279
- their kind of experience of it before then?
1560
00:56:45.279 --> 00:56:47.039
- Did you know that they were thinking about
1561
00:56:47.039 --> 00:56:47.539
- it?
1562
00:56:49.119 --> 00:56:51.940
- Not really. I just knew in that week
1563
00:56:52.144 --> 00:56:54.224
- that they were discussing the climate at school.
1564
00:56:54.224 --> 00:56:56.085
- And so I think we'd had some conversations
1565
00:56:56.144 --> 00:56:57.925
- after school, which were a bit like,
1566
00:56:58.625 --> 00:56:59.444
- just really
1567
00:56:59.905 --> 00:57:02.304
- shocked, you know? Like, they were just sort
1568
00:57:02.304 --> 00:57:04.545
- of, yeah, just talking about it like, oh
1569
00:57:04.545 --> 00:57:06.590
- my, wow. This is this is real and
1570
00:57:06.590 --> 00:57:08.130
- it's happening and it's terrible.
1571
00:57:08.750 --> 00:57:10.269
- And so it was just, yeah, it was
1572
00:57:10.269 --> 00:57:12.130
- just so sad to have to kind of
1573
00:57:12.349 --> 00:57:13.949
- just talk about it all at once and
1574
00:57:13.949 --> 00:57:17.489
- be like, yeah, yeah. It's, yeah, it's quite
1575
00:57:18.025 --> 00:57:18.664
- bad, but,
1576
00:57:19.545 --> 00:57:20.664
- we try to think about it like this.
1577
00:57:20.664 --> 00:57:21.945
- I think I felt a bit on the
1578
00:57:21.945 --> 00:57:23.405
- back foot in a way because I didn't,
1579
00:57:23.465 --> 00:57:24.664
- it's not like you get a heads up,
1580
00:57:24.664 --> 00:57:26.664
- you know, from school. Because you do sometimes
1581
00:57:26.664 --> 00:57:28.184
- from schools, don't you? Sometimes you get letters
1582
00:57:28.184 --> 00:57:29.625
- saying, oh, by the way, we're gonna be
1583
00:57:29.625 --> 00:57:30.769
- talking about this. This.
1584
00:57:31.309 --> 00:57:31.809
- Oh
1585
00:57:32.349 --> 00:57:32.849
- no.
1586
00:57:36.190 --> 00:57:38.989
- Okay, okay, but you know we we don't
1587
00:57:38.989 --> 00:57:40.750
- get a heads up right, so this is
1588
00:57:40.750 --> 00:57:42.590
- just one of, this is just another subject
1589
00:57:42.590 --> 00:57:43.329
- and so
1590
00:57:43.789 --> 00:57:45.864
- yeah it was just, oh, it was just
1591
00:57:45.864 --> 00:57:48.184
- so sad. It is really, really sad. And,
1592
00:57:48.985 --> 00:57:50.585
- but I suppose that it makes you quite
1593
00:57:50.585 --> 00:57:52.744
- active in, like, well, it's not just me
1594
00:57:52.744 --> 00:57:53.785
- that I have to worry about. Like, I
1595
00:57:53.785 --> 00:57:55.625
- need to kind of, you know, create some
1596
00:57:55.625 --> 00:57:58.184
- sort of conversation or some kind of space
1597
00:57:58.184 --> 00:57:59.005
- where we can
1598
00:57:59.809 --> 00:58:01.510
- chat about this openly and,
1599
00:58:02.050 --> 00:58:02.710
- you know,
1600
00:58:03.329 --> 00:58:05.750
- try, try to sort of find
1601
00:58:06.130 --> 00:58:07.909
- aspects that we can hook onto
1602
00:58:08.210 --> 00:58:10.289
- because you can't just be like, yes, you
1603
00:58:10.289 --> 00:58:12.369
- should feel despair. It's terrible. It is. You
1604
00:58:12.369 --> 00:58:14.309
- know, you need to, you need to find
1605
00:58:14.824 --> 00:58:15.784
- a balance and,
1606
00:58:17.384 --> 00:58:19.164
- yeah, a way to kind of move forward.
1607
00:58:19.464 --> 00:58:21.625
- So the the game has been it it's
1608
00:58:21.625 --> 00:58:23.704
- online now, so people can play online, but
1609
00:58:23.704 --> 00:58:26.025
- the it's it's first kind of outing was
1610
00:58:26.025 --> 00:58:27.085
- at an event.
1611
00:58:27.464 --> 00:58:28.664
- So you were Yeah.
1612
00:58:28.984 --> 00:58:30.364
- Were you there at the event?
1613
00:58:30.960 --> 00:58:33.039
- I was. Yes. So it was, it was
1614
00:58:33.039 --> 00:58:34.420
- a kind of evening performance,
1615
00:58:35.440 --> 00:58:37.039
- as part of a conference that was going
1616
00:58:37.039 --> 00:58:37.859
- on in Huddersfield
1617
00:58:38.320 --> 00:58:39.940
- called the Amplification Project,
1618
00:58:40.559 --> 00:58:42.559
- which was a fantastic conference. I can highly
1619
00:58:42.559 --> 00:58:43.059
- recommend.
1620
00:58:43.454 --> 00:58:43.954
- And
1621
00:58:44.414 --> 00:58:46.255
- so, yeah, we were all the musicians were
1622
00:58:46.255 --> 00:58:47.454
- there in the evening. And so I kind
1623
00:58:47.454 --> 00:58:49.454
- of got to see the conference people, the
1624
00:58:49.454 --> 00:58:51.375
- delegates, and other guests who would come to
1625
00:58:51.375 --> 00:58:52.114
- see the show,
1626
00:58:52.735 --> 00:58:54.255
- go in and play the game, which was
1627
00:58:54.255 --> 00:58:54.755
- lovely.
1628
00:58:55.375 --> 00:58:56.515
- I had a couple of,
1629
00:58:57.170 --> 00:58:59.170
- well, I had, like, a former and present
1630
00:58:59.170 --> 00:59:01.250
- student who came to play as well, which
1631
00:59:01.250 --> 00:59:02.769
- was very nice because they're from the video
1632
00:59:02.769 --> 00:59:04.930
- game audio world. So I was really keen
1633
00:59:04.930 --> 00:59:06.070
- to sort of see how they,
1634
00:59:06.610 --> 00:59:07.110
- responded.
1635
00:59:07.730 --> 00:59:09.250
- And, yeah, and I got to chat to
1636
00:59:09.250 --> 00:59:10.150
- people about
1637
00:59:10.454 --> 00:59:11.894
- how they how they found it at the
1638
00:59:11.894 --> 00:59:14.055
- end. It was really nice. Yeah. Because that
1639
00:59:14.135 --> 00:59:16.055
- that's what I was interested in really was
1640
00:59:16.055 --> 00:59:17.894
- that sort of, what what I wanted to
1641
00:59:17.894 --> 00:59:19.974
- ask about was that, you know, what were
1642
00:59:19.974 --> 00:59:22.535
- those conversations like when people were had played
1643
00:59:22.535 --> 00:59:23.114
- the game?
1644
00:59:23.575 --> 00:59:24.795
- Did people sort of
1645
00:59:25.289 --> 00:59:28.010
- explore their feelings with climate science with you,
1646
00:59:28.010 --> 00:59:29.449
- or were they more saying that was just
1647
00:59:29.449 --> 00:59:30.429
- so bloody lovely?
1648
00:59:31.929 --> 00:59:33.369
- It was it was a mixture. It was
1649
00:59:33.369 --> 00:59:34.969
- a really nice mixture. So, yeah, a couple
1650
00:59:34.969 --> 00:59:35.630
- of people
1651
00:59:36.250 --> 00:59:37.690
- did just kind of, you know, stop and
1652
00:59:37.690 --> 00:59:39.545
- have a chat about how they were feeling
1653
00:59:39.545 --> 00:59:42.025
- about it. There was one lady who was
1654
00:59:42.025 --> 00:59:44.045
- in tears and she gave me a hug
1655
00:59:44.105 --> 00:59:45.484
- and, and that was because
1656
00:59:45.784 --> 00:59:48.184
- for her family, it was a very, a
1657
00:59:48.184 --> 00:59:48.924
- very present,
1658
00:59:49.625 --> 00:59:51.224
- thing, a very present topic. They made lots
1659
00:59:51.224 --> 00:59:53.625
- of choices about not flying, for instance. And
1660
00:59:53.625 --> 00:59:54.125
- so
1661
00:59:54.719 --> 00:59:56.639
- I I just really felt that it was
1662
00:59:56.639 --> 00:59:58.639
- just very it was a very big subject
1663
00:59:58.639 --> 00:59:59.760
- for her personally. And,
1664
01:00:00.559 --> 01:00:02.159
- but it was really nice as well. She
1665
01:00:02.159 --> 01:00:03.859
- was she was lovely. And then
1666
01:00:04.159 --> 01:00:04.980
- one of my,
1667
01:00:05.359 --> 01:00:06.099
- ex students
1668
01:00:06.815 --> 01:00:08.015
- would have just had a big smile on
1669
01:00:08.015 --> 01:00:10.095
- his face and just said, that was, oh,
1670
01:00:10.095 --> 01:00:11.235
- it was just so heartfelt.
1671
01:00:12.414 --> 01:00:14.175
- And I was like, that is really nice
1672
01:00:14.175 --> 01:00:16.414
- feedback because that's what I was going for.
1673
01:00:16.414 --> 01:00:16.914
- Yeah.
1674
01:00:17.615 --> 01:00:19.650
- It was literally, I think one of my
1675
01:00:19.650 --> 01:00:21.409
- intentions of making the music was I just
1676
01:00:21.409 --> 01:00:22.309
- want this to feel
1677
01:00:22.929 --> 01:00:25.349
- really, really heartfelt, really open and,
1678
01:00:27.089 --> 01:00:27.909
- yeah, just,
1679
01:00:28.289 --> 01:00:30.929
- just nice. Mhmm. Just lovely. Even though it's
1680
01:00:30.929 --> 01:00:33.375
- difficult. Yeah. So that's a good that that's
1681
01:00:33.375 --> 01:00:35.954
- a thought. Right. So when when you're composing,
1682
01:00:36.815 --> 01:00:37.375
- is it
1683
01:00:37.934 --> 01:00:41.055
- it it is that thought thought process makes
1684
01:00:41.055 --> 01:00:43.535
- you go, okay. I'm gonna feel it here
1685
01:00:43.535 --> 01:00:45.375
- rather than gonna think about what I'm playing.
1686
01:00:45.375 --> 01:00:48.320
- I'm gonna feel it. Yeah. It absolutely is.
1687
01:00:48.320 --> 01:00:50.079
- And I think it's yeah. And I've only
1688
01:00:50.079 --> 01:00:52.320
- sort of come to know that, I suppose,
1689
01:00:52.320 --> 01:00:53.059
- in the last,
1690
01:00:53.440 --> 01:00:55.140
- I don't know, five or so years.
1691
01:00:55.519 --> 01:00:56.880
- I didn't I didn't sort of have that
1692
01:00:56.880 --> 01:00:59.140
- awareness when I was composing in my twenties.
1693
01:01:00.625 --> 01:01:02.065
- I definitely thought about it more in my
1694
01:01:02.065 --> 01:01:03.984
- head. And, but now recently I do, I,
1695
01:01:03.984 --> 01:01:05.824
- I will literally just sit like, how do
1696
01:01:05.824 --> 01:01:08.464
- I actually want to feel? Like, and I
1697
01:01:08.464 --> 01:01:10.404
- just keep noodling and
1698
01:01:10.704 --> 01:01:13.130
- improvising until I, until I hit that kind
1699
01:01:13.130 --> 01:01:14.250
- of spot. And I've done it a number
1700
01:01:14.250 --> 01:01:15.390
- of times and it really,
1701
01:01:15.849 --> 01:01:18.329
- really actually works. It's quite cool.
1702
01:01:19.050 --> 01:01:21.530
- Yeah. No. It's awesome. Just a specific word,
1703
01:01:21.530 --> 01:01:23.390
- a specific feeling, and then
1704
01:01:23.690 --> 01:01:25.309
- just really go for it
1705
01:01:25.655 --> 01:01:27.894
- with everything. And then I, yeah, I tend
1706
01:01:27.894 --> 01:01:29.734
- to find something that's just like, oh, yeah.
1707
01:01:29.734 --> 01:01:30.795
- Good. Yeah.
1708
01:01:31.175 --> 01:01:33.494
- That's awesome. That's awesome. Well, I hope is
1709
01:01:33.494 --> 01:01:35.815
- there a particular piece of music that's in
1710
01:01:35.815 --> 01:01:37.994
- the in the game that you feel,
1711
01:01:39.630 --> 01:01:40.130
- particularly
1712
01:01:40.750 --> 01:01:41.650
- pleased with?
1713
01:01:42.589 --> 01:01:45.469
- Yes. There is. My favorite little bit is
1714
01:01:45.469 --> 01:01:47.489
- called disco friend theme.
1715
01:01:48.109 --> 01:01:49.329
- And that is when
1716
01:01:49.630 --> 01:01:50.929
- we all find ourselves
1717
01:01:51.644 --> 01:01:53.425
- in a party situation.
1718
01:01:54.125 --> 01:01:55.184
- And and,
1719
01:01:55.644 --> 01:01:57.405
- yeah, I just made this music that I
1720
01:01:57.405 --> 01:01:59.005
- I really like it so much.
1721
01:01:59.485 --> 01:02:01.804
- It kind of like, to me, it definitely
1722
01:02:01.804 --> 01:02:03.244
- reminds me a bit of Brian Eno. Like,
1723
01:02:03.244 --> 01:02:05.699
- it's got that kind of slightly underwater,
1724
01:02:06.000 --> 01:02:07.940
- you know, that kind of scene from Trainspotting
1725
01:02:09.199 --> 01:02:10.800
- esque. I mean, I've really lent on the
1726
01:02:10.800 --> 01:02:11.300
- weaver.
1727
01:02:14.960 --> 01:02:16.640
- But I really like it a lot. And
1728
01:02:16.640 --> 01:02:18.239
- then I kind of put in this slightly
1729
01:02:18.239 --> 01:02:18.739
- wonky,
1730
01:02:19.295 --> 01:02:21.535
- very long kind of melody over the top.
1731
01:02:21.535 --> 01:02:22.655
- And that was one of the ones that
1732
01:02:22.655 --> 01:02:24.494
- I reworked and I was so pleased with
1733
01:02:24.494 --> 01:02:26.655
- because it kind of has this little twinkly
1734
01:02:26.655 --> 01:02:28.114
- aspect that's got kind of,
1735
01:02:28.974 --> 01:02:30.094
- a slight slight,
1736
01:02:30.655 --> 01:02:33.220
- odd wobble. And then this kind of long
1737
01:02:33.220 --> 01:02:34.740
- melody that to me sounds a bit like
1738
01:02:34.740 --> 01:02:35.880
- horns in the distance,
1739
01:02:36.579 --> 01:02:37.960
- kind of, something
1740
01:02:38.500 --> 01:02:40.579
- I don't know. Just some something quite interesting
1741
01:02:40.579 --> 01:02:42.360
- and unexpected for my own ears.
1742
01:02:56.015 --> 01:02:57.934
- You may have picked up that Naomi and
1743
01:02:57.934 --> 01:03:00.420
- I do know each other already. You'll have
1744
01:03:00.420 --> 01:03:02.420
- to play the game to find out how
1745
01:03:02.420 --> 01:03:03.079
- we met.
1746
01:03:16.324 --> 01:03:17.844
- Do you have you got a sense of
1747
01:03:17.844 --> 01:03:19.844
- this taking you to a different place with
1748
01:03:19.844 --> 01:03:22.425
- with your feelings on the climate? Oh,
1749
01:03:23.525 --> 01:03:24.984
- do you know it's it's
1750
01:03:26.085 --> 01:03:28.585
- I guess the main takeaway for me
1751
01:03:29.610 --> 01:03:33.230
- was that, our communities are really important, and
1752
01:03:33.930 --> 01:03:36.090
- and why not talk to your friends about
1753
01:03:36.090 --> 01:03:38.570
- stuff like this? Because every conversation that I
1754
01:03:38.570 --> 01:03:39.070
- had
1755
01:03:39.369 --> 01:03:39.869
- was
1756
01:03:40.570 --> 01:03:42.090
- you know, it'll just probably stay with me
1757
01:03:42.090 --> 01:03:44.329
- forever, like, because I sort of dedicated this,
1758
01:03:44.329 --> 01:03:45.855
- like, you know, I interviewed you all for
1759
01:03:45.855 --> 01:03:46.994
- about half an hour.
1760
01:03:47.454 --> 01:03:49.155
- And those conversations were
1761
01:03:49.614 --> 01:03:50.755
- really, really nice
1762
01:03:51.215 --> 01:03:51.715
- and
1763
01:03:52.255 --> 01:03:53.934
- felt really important to me, and I sort
1764
01:03:53.934 --> 01:03:55.875
- of carried them with me. And
1765
01:03:56.335 --> 01:03:57.235
- so I think
1766
01:03:57.775 --> 01:03:59.670
- however it's gonna all pan out,
1767
01:04:00.069 --> 01:04:01.349
- and I hope it pans out in a
1768
01:04:01.349 --> 01:04:02.630
- in a good way, I hope we kind
1769
01:04:02.630 --> 01:04:03.849
- of continue to make
1770
01:04:04.630 --> 01:04:07.030
- strides towards the places we need to go
1771
01:04:07.030 --> 01:04:09.829
- to actually not just keep going the wrong
1772
01:04:09.829 --> 01:04:10.329
- way.
1773
01:04:11.109 --> 01:04:12.869
- I I'll just I'll just take that with
1774
01:04:12.869 --> 01:04:15.034
- me that, you know, really hard things can
1775
01:04:15.034 --> 01:04:16.494
- be made better by
1776
01:04:16.875 --> 01:04:20.315
- talking to friends directly about them. And, obviously,
1777
01:04:20.315 --> 01:04:21.054
- it's a bit
1778
01:04:21.355 --> 01:04:23.674
- left field to say, hey. How are you
1779
01:04:23.674 --> 01:04:25.054
- feeling about this?
1780
01:04:25.700 --> 01:04:27.619
- Can we talk about that for half an
1781
01:04:27.619 --> 01:04:30.420
- hour? But maybe we will. You know, maybe
1782
01:04:30.420 --> 01:04:31.780
- maybe people that play the game will be
1783
01:04:31.780 --> 01:04:34.019
- like, oh, okay. I can. I I've been
1784
01:04:34.019 --> 01:04:35.160
- sending it to people,
1785
01:04:35.619 --> 01:04:36.119
- and,
1786
01:04:37.744 --> 01:04:40.005
- yeah, the the the reaction is
1787
01:04:40.625 --> 01:04:41.125
- uniformly
1788
01:04:41.585 --> 01:04:44.065
- delight. I think that's what it is. I
1789
01:04:44.144 --> 01:04:46.224
- there have been tears. I've see I've sat
1790
01:04:46.224 --> 01:04:47.585
- with people while they played it, and they
1791
01:04:47.585 --> 01:04:49.525
- have cried while they played it, which is
1792
01:04:49.664 --> 01:04:52.005
- I think I think it's That's amazing.
1793
01:04:52.960 --> 01:04:55.940
- I think it's it's it's it's in part
1794
01:04:56.960 --> 01:04:57.860
- of your story,
1795
01:04:58.160 --> 01:05:00.800
- and it's in part their own reaction to
1796
01:05:00.800 --> 01:05:01.539
- their own
1797
01:05:01.840 --> 01:05:03.840
- feelings about the climate framework, which is a
1798
01:05:03.840 --> 01:05:05.920
- lovely thing. Oh, that's so nice. Thank you.
1799
01:05:05.920 --> 01:05:07.539
- Thank you, Chase. Yeah. What
1800
01:05:07.934 --> 01:05:09.855
- what are you gonna do this sort of
1801
01:05:09.855 --> 01:05:11.215
- thing again? This is the first time you've
1802
01:05:11.215 --> 01:05:13.934
- made a game. I've I've dabbled in making
1803
01:05:13.934 --> 01:05:15.375
- games before. I had to do one for
1804
01:05:15.375 --> 01:05:17.055
- my projects when I was doing my masters,
1805
01:05:17.055 --> 01:05:18.494
- and that was in a different game kind
1806
01:05:18.574 --> 01:05:20.494
- kinda game engine. I would love to do
1807
01:05:20.494 --> 01:05:23.420
- this again, Andrew, and I really I really
1808
01:05:23.420 --> 01:05:24.880
- hope that somebody asks me,
1809
01:05:25.739 --> 01:05:27.819
- you know, employs me to to make another
1810
01:05:27.819 --> 01:05:29.199
- little Bitsy game narrative.
1811
01:05:29.739 --> 01:05:31.980
- Honestly, it is so much fun, and I
1812
01:05:31.980 --> 01:05:32.639
- could just
1813
01:05:33.179 --> 01:05:35.359
- if anyone's, like, wanting to dabble in
1814
01:05:35.900 --> 01:05:37.440
- making short form games,
1815
01:05:38.414 --> 01:05:40.094
- you just go to bitsy.org,
1816
01:05:40.094 --> 01:05:42.094
- have a little go. It is amazing. There
1817
01:05:42.094 --> 01:05:43.135
- are a lot there are lots of little,
1818
01:05:43.454 --> 01:05:45.934
- engines you can start dabbling with. But if
1819
01:05:45.934 --> 01:05:47.954
- you like a kind of creativity
1820
01:05:48.335 --> 01:05:48.835
- systems,
1821
01:05:50.250 --> 01:05:50.750
- whimsy,
1822
01:05:51.449 --> 01:05:52.989
- you will have a really good time
1823
01:05:53.289 --> 01:05:55.050
- doing it. So, yeah, I would I would
1824
01:05:55.050 --> 01:05:55.690
- love to,
1825
01:05:56.409 --> 01:05:57.390
- do this again.
1826
01:05:58.090 --> 01:05:59.929
- I can't So if people would want to
1827
01:05:59.929 --> 01:06:01.449
- commission you to do that, how would they
1828
01:06:01.449 --> 01:06:03.530
- find you? They would they could go to
1829
01:06:03.530 --> 01:06:06.445
- my website, which is Naomi Composers
1830
01:06:07.224 --> 01:06:07.965
- dot com.
1831
01:06:08.824 --> 01:06:09.324
- And,
1832
01:06:10.025 --> 01:06:12.344
- and on that website, there is a, it's
1833
01:06:12.344 --> 01:06:14.445
- actually an interactive business card
1834
01:06:14.744 --> 01:06:16.824
- that they can play. So I have made
1835
01:06:16.985 --> 01:06:18.425
- I actually have have made another little another
1836
01:06:18.425 --> 01:06:19.889
- little game there. I I did I did
1837
01:06:19.889 --> 01:06:21.170
- have a lot of help, but it's, it's
1838
01:06:21.170 --> 01:06:22.309
- it's a pretty cool
1839
01:06:22.609 --> 01:06:23.909
- pretty cool game, aren't you?
1840
01:06:24.369 --> 01:06:25.969
- Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I'll have a go
1841
01:06:25.969 --> 01:06:27.089
- at that. I'll have a go at that.
1842
01:06:27.089 --> 01:06:29.409
- And, thank you so much for talking to
1843
01:06:29.409 --> 01:06:31.650
- me and also for making this beautiful game,
1844
01:06:31.650 --> 01:06:33.589
- which is called It's called Save Progress.
1845
01:06:33.945 --> 01:06:35.465
- I don't know why I called it that.
1846
01:06:35.465 --> 01:06:37.144
- It's quite fun, though, isn't it? Because when
1847
01:06:37.144 --> 01:06:38.585
- you start playing it, you think you need
1848
01:06:38.585 --> 01:06:40.398
- to save the progress in your game. I
1849
01:06:40.398 --> 01:06:41.864
- know. I know. And I did get feedback
1850
01:06:41.864 --> 01:06:42.425
- around that,
1851
01:06:43.065 --> 01:06:43.565
- and
1852
01:06:44.105 --> 01:06:45.545
- and then I was like, it's a bit
1853
01:06:45.545 --> 01:06:46.619
- too late to change it because it's gone
1854
01:06:46.619 --> 01:06:48.539
- in the program. So it's it's called safe
1855
01:06:48.539 --> 01:06:50.460
- progress. You can just interpret that however you
1856
01:06:50.460 --> 01:06:51.199
- like, but,
1857
01:06:51.819 --> 01:06:54.139
- yes, you don't actually need to, save your
1858
01:06:54.139 --> 01:06:54.639
- progress
1859
01:06:55.019 --> 01:06:57.019
- unless you're wanting it Okay. At the end.
1860
01:06:57.019 --> 01:06:59.019
- Okay. I'm not gonna say how I interpret
1861
01:06:59.019 --> 01:07:00.539
- it. But what I will say is people
1862
01:07:00.539 --> 01:07:02.385
- should play the game. Okay. And when it
1863
01:07:02.385 --> 01:07:04.625
- says safe progress, that's the name. You don't
1864
01:07:04.625 --> 01:07:07.344
- need to do anything. Just carry on clicking
1865
01:07:07.344 --> 01:07:07.844
- through.
1866
01:07:08.224 --> 01:07:10.324
- And, yeah, thank you so much.
1867
01:07:11.025 --> 01:07:13.265
- You can play the game now by finding
1868
01:07:13.265 --> 01:07:14.909
- the link on physicsworld.com,
1869
01:07:14.909 --> 01:07:16.670
- or indeed play the other game, which is
1870
01:07:16.670 --> 01:07:17.889
- Nomi's interactive
1871
01:07:18.429 --> 01:07:20.829
- business card. And if you're a fan of
1872
01:07:20.829 --> 01:07:24.109
- the old Atari games, well, I'll leave it
1873
01:07:24.109 --> 01:07:25.869
- at that. I'd like to thank Nomi and
1874
01:07:25.869 --> 01:07:27.644
- Tom for talking to me for this episode
1875
01:07:27.644 --> 01:07:29.404
- of the Physics World Stories podcast. We'll be
1876
01:07:29.404 --> 01:07:31.404
- back next month with something else from this
1877
01:07:31.404 --> 01:07:33.804
- wonderful world of physics, and thank you very
1878
01:07:33.804 --> 01:07:34.784
- much for listening.