"Forged Within The Local Church" featuring Pastor Stacey Dillard

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Hey, welcome to this episode of the Pattern Principle Podcast.
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We had a tremendous privilege of having a conversation with Pastor Stacey Dillard, and we talked a lot about being forged within the local church and the local assembly, the local body of Christ.
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And I really thoroughly enjoyed my conversation with Pastor Dillard.
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Uh he's a riot, he's he's fun to talk to and and kind of draws things out of you, which is always fun, always open and welcome, right?
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Um Malachi, I'm curious as we as we had the conversation with Pastor Dillard, what stood out to you?
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Yeah.
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One of the things that stood out to me was how important the local church is in even great men's lives.
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So we see Pastor Stacey Dillard, you see many of these great preachers, and you don't see where they were forged, and it was in the local church that he was forged.
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It's that it's the early days of his salvation, people helping him out, people giving him advice, and then from that point he could go on um to do ministry, and but it starts in the local church, and uh really it really was uh a great thing to do.
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Yeah, no, that's good, that's good, and uh definitely noticed that as well.
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Yeah, you're right.
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And sometimes you you know maybe go to conference or you have a revival and you have somebody come and they they preach, and there there's a lot of testimony behind that.
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There's a lot of history, right?
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They were they were shaped, and um most preachers are gonna preach personal experiences, and I think it's uh it's really cool to kind of dig into those early days and even before Christ.
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And Pastor Dillard's testimony was awesome.
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Uh what's one of the things that stood out to you?
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Yeah, what stood out to me was that in-between.
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So there's the pioneer, uh, pioneering a new church, and obviously the challenges that he highlighted in kind of like those early days, I don't have a clue what I'm doing, sort of thing.
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And and then we can see the contrast between what we would consider like a powerful move of God in in Virginia Beach and uh his ministries today, but we talked a little bit about those silent those those in-between moments, right?
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Like you have era and era, and then there's this time between that where things have to be struggled through and worked through, and um some of the challenges that come with that.
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And obviously, very very rarely is it one man's or one couple's um soul ministry that develops something like that, but it was very insightful for me just to talk through a little bit of that.
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We did talk about it a lot, but um I particularly love that part of the conversation.
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Uh yeah, so with that, um, we hope that you enjoy the episode.
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We had a blast making it, um, had a great time talking to Pastor Dillard.
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If you have any questions, comments, uh, feel free to reach out to us at connect at pattern principlepodcast.com.
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Hope to hear from you.
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God bless.
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Hope you enjoy the episode.
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Welcome to the Pattern Principle Podcast, Pastor Stacy Dillard.
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We really appreciate you for coming.
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Thank you.
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Yeah.
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So we just want to start off with your testimony.
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Tell us of who was Stacy Dillard before Christ.
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Who was Stacy Dillard before Christ?
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Oh, what?
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Yeah, yeah.
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That's hey, that's even funny.
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Uh, who was Stacy Dillard before Christ?
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I uh was born in Georgia, um, born to um a kind of a broken family, broken home.
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And without getting into a lot of the details, but uh I come from a broken family.
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I was born illegitimate, and I never knew my biological father.
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I never really met him, and my mom was married before to a guy that I thought was my biological father, found out that uh he wasn't when they got divorced.
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So I grew up with a real um uh rage against men and against authority.
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Now I'm saved, I know where it came from, but back when I was younger, I couldn't pinpoint it.
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So, long story short, I spent a lot of my young years with a lot of animosity and a lot of rage and a lot of anger issues, all the way through middle school and uh grade school.
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I was a very angry young man and uh getting in fights with principals and teachers and stuff like that.
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And I um just had a really hard upbringing.
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So I moved a lot when I was young.
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I moved several times in Georgia.
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When my mom remarried, we moved from Georgia to Delaware.
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I lived in Delaware for about seven years, moved from Delaware, moved to Germany my 10th, 11th, 12th grade year, moved back from uh Germany, moved to New Mexico, where I met this guy.
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Uh we became really good friends and uh because we like the same things.
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And so um, what ended up happening, he ended up, his dad ended up retiring from the military.
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He said, Hey, um, I'm moving to Chandler, Arizona.
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I'm like, never even heard of Chandler, Arizona.
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He said, Well, you should come out sometime.
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So I'm living in New Mexico.
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Um, if I can back up, I had gone to college to play basketball.
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I got in a lot of trouble in school, got kicked out, lost my scholarships.
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I went from back from Texas back to New Mexico, didn't know what I was gonna do with my life.
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I was just kind of drifting around.
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And so my friend that moved to Chandler said, Hey, you know, why don't you come out for a weekend?
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Come check it out.
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And uh he says, a lot of girls out here, man.
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You'll probably you might like it.
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I'm like, yeah, man, I'm into girls.
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I'll come check that out.
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So I went out to Chandler, what was supposed to be for a weekend, I ended up just staying.
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It was like November 1988.
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I ended up staying in uh in Chandler, Arizona.
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Shortly after that, a guy invited me out to church.
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Um for the first time in my life, when I got the invite, he he he told me, Have you ever heard that Jesus could change your life?
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And I honestly, growing up in church and being around churchy stuff, I had been to church, but I didn't know about the gospel message that Jesus changed his lives.
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And I said, you know, I've been around church, but I've never heard that before.
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He said, Jesus can change your life.
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I remember going to the church and walking in the door, kind of like this is here, walking through the door.
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And I remember looking in the foyer and looking in the sanctuary, and I saw all these people that it was just too good to be true.
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How how um a word that I wouldn't have used back then that I can't use now is fulfilled and content.
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That's what they looked like they had, and it was a very thing that I did not have.
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And that night, the guy who invited me out to church, he came off the stage, ran down, looked me in my face, and he said, Tonight Jesus is gonna change your life, you'll never be the same.
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And that was November 1988, and I've never ever been the same since that day.
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And I gave my life to Jesus, my roommate gave his life to the Lord that night, and um, and the rest has been an incredible adventure.
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The last what this November be 38 years since I've been a Christian.
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So it's been it's been great.
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Been a lot of in-betweens, but with Jesus is always good.
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Yeah, yeah.
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So that's my story.
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How how important was it stepping into the church from kind of the life that you had lived?
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It sounds like you had a you know friend circle and some very close friends, stepping in, obviously the unfulfilled part that you just highlighted, that that's critical, but how important was it the kind of fellowship and and the people in the church?
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How much did they play in you staying in the longevity now, um, in those early years particularly?
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Well, that's a good question.
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Yeah.
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Um, if it hadn't been for the older saints, and you know, I call them older saints, but actually they weren't really that old.
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Right.
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They um they were relatively young, and some of them hadn't been saved more than three or five years.
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You know, and I remember when they would say, Oh, yeah, I've been here five years, I'm like, What?
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Five years, man, how did you make it five years?
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But I remember when I first got there, they would invite me to everything.
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But I wasn't that kind of person that I wanted to hang out with them like that.
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But they would invite me to everything, and they would always be so attentive.
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I remember uh Ron Meyer in particular.
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Uh he pastors in in Jacksonville, Florida.
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He's been pastoring there since 1989.
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He's been pastor in Florida.
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He was so instrumental, he and his wife, Bridget, and me surviving.
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And he would just invite me over to the house.
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We'd just sit around and they feed us, and I don't remember what we ate.
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I don't remember one meal, but I remember how um good they were to me.
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And and Gene Proctor, who invited me out to church, Gene would uh challenge me to pray and challenge me to be at church, and so many people, uh Frank Cooper and and and and George Piper and all of these people along the way who were little touches that now looking back, I would not have survived had not those people been there.
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And you know the the wild thing about all those people that I that I mentioned, they had their own families.
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They had little kids and and and they had you know ministries and they had uh um uh jobs and they got up early in the morning, but with all that stuff, they still had time to fit me in my roommate.
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And so it was powerful.
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Oh, that's incredible.
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Uh I and so uh there was a point in my Christian life, born-raised in the church, right?
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So this is a second nature to some of us.
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A big focus of this podcast is we we we're we're a few generations in now.
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Right.
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And uh there can be apathy that sets in, right?
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And that had started with me.
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And actually, you uh doing a revival for us preached that to some extent last night.
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Powerful.
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And I've experienced that.
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My wife told me she's she she had gone to that place many times in the past, and I remember a man in the church, Kevin, uh Kevin Huffman, they're in Michigan, uh now in Holt.
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And Kevin he was going through some hard hard times, but he actually his his son is uh our sound guy.
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Um he uh he was struggling a little bit, and I remember being an encourager to him, even though I was I was not tracking right myself, but I knew, hey man, I don't want to see you fall, you know.
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He caught a vision, God had totally, I mean, radically changed him to where his prayer in the prayer room was it was on fire.
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If I say it was fire, the kids might confuse what I mean.
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Right, right.
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It was fire.
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No, he was in the prayer room, I'm listening, I'm like, whoa, he got the goods, he was contending, and yeah, he was he was discouraged.
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That leapt on me.
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And it was that's that's a point I mark in my life.
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It wasn't my my pastor's a good man and he preaches best of the best, right?
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But it wasn't my pastor preaching, and it wasn't uh my parents or you know, it wasn't my my wife necessarily, it was another person in the church that caught a vision.
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Yeah.
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After discouragement, even and just his heart was burning, and you could see that, and it it so touched me, it moved me, and it challenged me to step into something.
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Um to where I began to work with the youth and that sort of thing, but that was all that was a catalyst from all this was just another man in the church who was hungry.
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Amen.
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Uh God touched him.
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It's it's a powerful thing, it really is.
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You never know.
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I just had this conversation with a young man in our church.
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Um, you never know who's watching.
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Right.
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When uh when you get hungry, you know?
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Yeah, yeah.
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That's cool, very cool.
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You know, I think um church growing up in the Midwest, church is was synonymous with like culture.
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Right, exactly.
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It's like I go to church, yeah.
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And rarely is it viewed as a place where you're shaped in the in the religious world.
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It's rarely viewed as a place that you come with the intent of leaving change.
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Right, exactly.
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And maybe that's not one service that that could be in for most of us, it's a course of probably many years, yeah.
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Where God is hammering out the little and working out the little imperfections.
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Right.
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Um and uh I'm curious in in your life, stepping in with sounds like you didn't really did.
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You have a uh religious ex like background in Georgia family?
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Religious in the sense that my grandfather was a preacher.
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Oh, okay.
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So so you know, culturally, church is what we did.
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You're right.
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You have no ultimatum, you know, not like the kids nowadays.
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I just don't want to go.
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We didn't have that.
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You are going.
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I grew up in a background that it doesn't matter how late you stay out at night, you will go to church.
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Oh, and actually, it was to the degree of if you don't go to church, if you played sick, you couldn't sit and eat with the rest of the family.
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Oh, wow.
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When it comes, you know, dinner time.
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You you couldn't do that.
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You're gonna be sick like the whole day.
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And so and so I I grew up going to church.
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But like I said, no one ever really told me and showed me how to live for God.
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It was this, it was this thing that was you go and and uh let me put it this way: no one ever showed me how to connect my Monday to my Sunday.
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And and and one of the things I always say in our church is connect your Monday to your Sunday.
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That everything that we do here, so we come here to worship, we leave here to work, so everything that we learn, work it out when you leave here.
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I'd never seen that before.
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And the things that I did see, it didn't leave a really good um impression on me for continuing to be so-called church goer.
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So when I left, I vowed I'd never, ever, ever step foot in a church again.
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And I I stayed out of church for probably 10 years.
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Wow.
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That I never I never went to church, I didn't go on Christmas, I didn't go for Easter.
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I never even thought about those holidays, man.
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They were irrelevant to me.
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Christmas was irrelevant because I got gifts.
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But but you know, Easter and all this other stuff, man.
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I'm like, no, uh uh, I have no desire to do that.
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And so I couldn't even say that I was religious.
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Because even religious people have a little bit of sense of righteousness.
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I had none.
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No fear of God because I didn't know him.
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And so, um, and what I did know about God, I had this thing that I used to say that the people who believe God were just weak people.
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They're weak-minded people, and I have a strong mind, so I don't need God.
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Only weak-minded people need God.
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And so that's the way I came into the kingdom.
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So, did you believe in God or were you an atheist?
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I never thought about it.
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Okay, just never.
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No, I never I never thought about God.
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I never, I think the only time I even read the Bible, I got arrested for stealing.
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And I was in in um jail in Lubbock.
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And uh the only uh scripture I can remember was John 3.16 from my little red Bible when I was little.
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And I opened it up, you know, and I read John 3.16 in in uh in Texas when I was in jail.
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And I read that, and I'm like, but I still had no revelation of it.
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I just that's all I knew.
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I didn't know anything else, and no one ever, no one ever told me anything.
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Yes, so growing up in church, so you're saying you didn't correlate church with the relationship with Jesus ever?
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It was just something you just did?
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No.
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So how so how was that after you got saved, stepping in to a local body, having an encounter with Jesus?
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Was it an adjustment?
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Like, oh, I actually have to do this church thing now that I'm serving Jesus?
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No, because I had no reference.
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Real no real reference of anybody ever really.
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You know, my my granddad preached, but even his daily life wasn't like an overflow of Sunday.
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It wasn't.
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I didn't at least I didn't see it.
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You know, maybe my my my brother or my aunts and uncles, because I live with my granddad for a long time, maybe they remember things differently.
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I know that the way that I saw it, and now looking back, I never saw any real fruit of the Christian life and biblical truths manifesting in fruit.
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And so I had nothing really to reference from.
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So when I came into church, I was kind of like a blank slate.
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The only thing that tripped me out about church is I I grew up with pews.
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Yeah.
00:16:30.879 --> 00:16:33.360
So when I came in, I'm like, what are these metal chairs?
00:16:33.679 --> 00:16:38.960
I honestly I thought the church was a bookstore because it's a door Christian Center.
00:16:39.200 --> 00:16:42.159
I'm like, that's a weird name, and the door Christian Center.
00:16:42.399 --> 00:16:47.679
So when I came up, I kind of peeked around the corner and I looked in and I saw man, these metal chairs.
00:16:47.759 --> 00:16:48.639
The church is weird.
00:16:48.879 --> 00:16:53.200
I grew up, you know, you have the big old chairs on the stage for the deacons.
00:16:53.600 --> 00:16:56.720
And so they have the big old chair in the middle would be for my granddad.
00:16:56.960 --> 00:17:06.559
He would sit in the middle, and then they have chairs on the side for the deacons, and then they had another place on the left that was for where they would count the offering, and then where they count the offering in front of everybody.
00:17:06.799 --> 00:17:11.759
Yeah, and then they put the hymns up, the number of the hymns so you have hymn books.
00:17:11.839 --> 00:17:12.960
I grew up around all that stuff.
00:17:13.039 --> 00:17:16.160
So I didn't know when I came in that was weird.
00:17:16.240 --> 00:17:16.559
Yeah.
00:17:16.799 --> 00:17:21.519
But that was the least of my issues, really, about the pews and the hymn books, man.
00:17:21.599 --> 00:17:22.720
I had some deep issues.
00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:23.920
So I really didn't have anything.
00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:25.599
I was kind of a blank slate.
00:17:25.759 --> 00:17:37.119
And so people that told me anything, I was like, okay, that makes sense because I didn't have all these superimpressions of religiosity about me.
00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:38.079
I really didn't.
00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:38.720
So it helped me.
00:17:39.039 --> 00:17:41.119
So then what was it when you stepped in?
00:17:42.079 --> 00:17:43.920
Really, what was it that you that you said?
00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:45.440
You said you said fulfilled.
00:17:45.599 --> 00:17:45.759
Right.
00:17:45.920 --> 00:17:46.799
But what kept you there?
00:17:46.960 --> 00:17:48.400
What kept you in the local church?
00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:52.960
Um, what kept me there was community.
00:17:54.240 --> 00:17:55.839
What kept me there was community.
00:17:55.920 --> 00:17:57.200
I felt safe.
00:17:57.599 --> 00:18:02.319
And I I was sharing with um, because I struggled with a lot of stuff, man.
00:18:02.480 --> 00:18:08.000
Um, number one, being in Arizona and not having any family was very, very hard for me.
00:18:08.160 --> 00:18:10.640
I didn't have any family around me at all.
00:18:10.880 --> 00:18:13.359
Nowhere close at all, anyone.
00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:19.359
And I remember people, because I know people from all over the world.
00:18:19.519 --> 00:18:22.079
They were telling me, hey, I heard you got saved.
00:18:22.160 --> 00:18:23.359
And I said, Yeah, yeah.
00:18:23.440 --> 00:18:24.400
And they said, you know what?
00:18:24.559 --> 00:18:26.799
You should go here, you should go there.
00:18:26.960 --> 00:18:30.799
And then I had this girlfriend who said, You should come here.
00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:33.680
I had all these things pulling on me.
00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:36.480
And I remember Frank Cooper, a good friend of mine.
00:18:36.559 --> 00:18:38.319
He's still in Chandler Church.
00:18:38.640 --> 00:18:42.400
I told him some of the things that people were saying.
00:18:42.640 --> 00:18:45.519
He told me, I wouldn't do that if I were you.
00:18:46.240 --> 00:18:47.599
He said, I would not do that.
00:18:47.680 --> 00:18:49.680
He said, I don't think you'll survive.
00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:53.839
And at first it kind of rubbed me the wrong way.
00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:57.680
I'm like, bro, come on, man, I've survived all this time without any of you.
00:18:58.880 --> 00:19:02.960
He said, he said, honestly, I don't think you will make it.
00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:06.960
And he said to me, God had a plan for bringing you here.
00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:10.400
And he made me step back and look.
00:19:10.640 --> 00:19:15.039
And he said, okay, you lived all these places in your life.
00:19:15.279 --> 00:19:17.200
Why didn't God save you in those?
00:19:17.759 --> 00:19:19.279
I said, that's a good point.
00:19:20.240 --> 00:19:22.880
He said, God saves you here because he wants to develop you here.
00:19:23.039 --> 00:19:29.279
And so um I would not have survived, number one, if people didn't check up on me.
00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:31.839
And you know what's crazy?
00:19:32.079 --> 00:19:38.880
I remember Frank Cooper would come by my house and he knew I was home.
00:19:39.119 --> 00:19:39.920
He knew it.
00:19:40.079 --> 00:19:41.599
But I didn't want to be bothered, man.
00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:43.200
I didn't want these guys messing with me.
00:19:43.359 --> 00:19:50.559
And so he came and I he knocked on the door, and uh I peeped.
00:19:51.119 --> 00:19:55.680
You know, the the people you know you can see people when they're like this, right?
00:19:55.920 --> 00:19:59.200
And I oh my gosh, man, this guy from the church.
00:19:59.359 --> 00:20:01.920
And he would leave me notes, he write, he'd leave me a note.
00:20:02.079 --> 00:20:06.079
And he'd say, hey, I just stopped by to let you know I was thinking about you, man.
00:20:06.559 --> 00:20:08.160
And he'd leave me the note.
00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:13.839
And I'm like, yo, these people really care about me.
00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:16.559
I remember um I was looking for a job.
00:20:17.279 --> 00:20:19.759
Um, I was just a new convert and I needed a job.
00:20:19.839 --> 00:20:24.160
And Bob Alvarez, he um he said, you know what?
00:20:25.519 --> 00:20:26.799
Ride with me, I'm gonna take you around.
00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:27.759
We're gonna find you a job.
00:20:27.920 --> 00:20:38.160
He took me to U-Haul, took me a bunch of places trying to find and but in those stops of getting applications and waiting for me to hand applications in, he was talking to me and helping me.
00:20:38.240 --> 00:20:45.359
And and that's what I say, all those little touches along the way, if it had not been for those, I would have left.
00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:53.039
I I would have gone maybe to to uh South Carolina, I'd have gone maybe back to uh New Mexico, maybe to Texas.
00:20:53.200 --> 00:21:06.319
Who knows where I would have ended up if it had not been for solid people in the Chandler Church who I mean, George Piper gave me my first Bible, and it was a good one, man, like the the Thompson chain, real ones, you know what I mean?
00:21:06.880 --> 00:21:10.559
He gave me that Bible, and I will never ever forget it.
00:21:10.640 --> 00:21:17.680
And he would just talk to me and just just give me truth, and it helped me to navigate and survive.
00:21:17.759 --> 00:21:21.680
And I finally came to the conclusion I think I just need to stay here.
00:21:21.839 --> 00:21:27.920
I don't know what my future holds, I don't know where I'm gonna be, but I think I just need to stay here because these people care about me.
00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:29.440
It's a wonderful culture.
00:21:29.759 --> 00:21:36.640
That's yeah, I think there's there's uh there's two things there that I'd like to highlight.
00:21:36.799 --> 00:21:44.000
One is that should be uh both a challenge and a relief to pastors.
00:21:44.160 --> 00:21:44.559
Mm-hmm.
00:21:45.279 --> 00:21:48.079
You're pioneering, it's a challenge to build relationships.
00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:48.559
Yeah.
00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:50.640
You build you build a church through relationship.
00:21:50.880 --> 00:21:51.039
Yeah.
00:21:51.599 --> 00:21:54.319
Actually there was a statistic and I I'm not I'm gonna misquote it.
00:21:54.400 --> 00:22:03.039
I'm sure um I use it in my Sunday school that I teach and uh older teenagers and Hey, you know, or younger teenagers, I guess.
00:22:03.279 --> 00:22:14.240
I'd say uh um outreach, even even uh revival services is it makes up like one percent of what ultimately becomes the church body.
00:22:14.480 --> 00:22:14.720
Right.
00:22:15.279 --> 00:22:22.960
But what where people lock in is uh when they're invited by somebody they know and when they develop relationships.
00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:26.880
Statistically, you grow a church through a relationship, right?
00:22:27.359 --> 00:22:30.400
And uh you know, God gets involved, absolutely.
00:22:30.559 --> 00:22:31.920
That's the shaping process.
00:22:32.559 --> 00:22:35.039
But man, how much impact we have.
00:22:35.200 --> 00:22:40.400
And then it's it's it's a relief to pastors because it's not all their job.
00:22:40.640 --> 00:22:40.960
Right.
00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:52.720
It's there's you have a you have a congregation, build a culture of relationship, which I can honestly say this church is a has that culture of relationship, and I'm so unbelievably grateful for that.
00:22:53.279 --> 00:23:00.720
There are there are good people here that when he ain't tracking right, right, they'll they'll do what they need to, reach out, jack you up if they need to.
00:23:00.960 --> 00:23:01.359
Right.
00:23:01.599 --> 00:23:03.359
Um and that's that's powerful.
00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:05.039
It saved my saving my bacon.
00:23:05.200 --> 00:23:06.079
Yeah, absolutely.
00:23:06.319 --> 00:23:06.640
Amen.
00:23:07.519 --> 00:23:13.920
So from the time you got saved decided I'm gonna stay at this church, when did you start feeling the call to ministry?
00:23:14.079 --> 00:23:17.680
It doesn't even like not even preaching ministry, just hey, I'm gonna go out, tell people about Jesus.
00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:27.519
Um actually immediately I felt like I could do some music because I did music before I came into the church.
00:23:27.599 --> 00:23:29.839
I had a couple of rap groups.
00:23:30.079 --> 00:23:33.039
And me and the guy who got saved, he was a DJ.
00:23:33.119 --> 00:23:36.160
So we had like turntables, mixers, great galore.
00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:39.279
Yeah, we were big into music, man, big time crates of music.
00:23:39.599 --> 00:23:40.720
And so that's all we did.
00:23:40.799 --> 00:23:42.240
We love music, we listen to music.
00:23:42.319 --> 00:23:48.480
There used to be a store in Timby called Stinkweeds, and um I'd always go to Stinkweeds, I'd buy all this music.
00:23:48.640 --> 00:23:50.720
So we went to a concert.
00:23:51.039 --> 00:23:53.920
Somebody invited us to go to a concert, and I thought it was so hokey, man.
00:23:54.559 --> 00:23:59.279
You know, because I come out of the clubs, you know, and I actually I used to go to spring break in Spain.
00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:02.960
And if you've ever been to Spain, Spain's like next level clubs and stuff like that.
00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:04.880
So I was used to the whole club thing.
00:24:04.960 --> 00:24:14.960
So when I walked into what was supposed to be the concert, I'm like, they're sitting on the floor, and I'm like, oh man.
00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:26.000
And then I'm watching the band and it's dark in there, and they had the the lights with the with the cellophane, whatever that stuff that you can't that you can't keep on that longer to burn up the whole building.
00:24:26.160 --> 00:24:28.559
It's smelling like burnt plastic.
00:24:28.880 --> 00:24:34.480
And so I said to my roommate, I said, Tim, bro, this is cheesy.
00:24:35.440 --> 00:24:40.000
And but then when we went home, I said, Hey, man, you know what?
00:24:40.160 --> 00:24:45.680
I bet you we if we asked them, they might down the road let us do some music or something.
00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:46.400
Come on.
00:24:46.720 --> 00:24:54.880
And so I remember, I don't know how long the time was, but I remember they let him bring his turntables in.
00:24:55.599 --> 00:24:58.400
And this had to be like 1989.
00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:01.440
Maybe 1989.
00:25:01.680 --> 00:25:03.200
Brought the turntables in, man.
00:25:03.279 --> 00:25:05.759
He's spinning, he's getting down up there.
00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:08.720
And I did this hokey rap, you know what I mean?
00:25:08.960 --> 00:25:13.200
And uh, but it dawned on me, hey, you know what?
00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:17.279
I think I could do some a rap for Jesus.
00:25:17.519 --> 00:25:22.079
And I remember I asked God, I said, God, I need a song.
00:25:22.400 --> 00:25:25.599
But I want I wanna I want to I want a song about you.
00:25:26.079 --> 00:25:29.359
And God gave me a song called The Blood.
00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:29.759
Wow.
00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:30.880
I still remember it.
00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:32.480
That was so long ago.
00:25:35.519 --> 00:25:46.960
And so I I wrote this song about the blood, and uh, and I remember I used to beatbox, and then my my roommate, because we didn't have a whole lot of instrumentals, that kind of instrumental stuff back then.
00:25:47.599 --> 00:25:50.480
He would beat box when it's my turn, and then we had AJ.
00:25:50.799 --> 00:25:51.119
Oh, yeah.
00:25:51.440 --> 00:25:52.480
We had AJ, so it was meatbox.
00:25:53.839 --> 00:25:54.480
If she watches it.
00:25:55.119 --> 00:25:56.880
She told me she's my biggest fan in our band.
00:25:56.960 --> 00:25:57.759
Yes, yes.
00:25:57.920 --> 00:25:59.279
So AJ will appreciate that.
00:25:59.519 --> 00:26:01.039
So it was me, Tim, and AJ.
00:26:01.279 --> 00:26:02.720
We put together this little group.
00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:09.839
But you know, honestly, the the thing that really got me super excited is that hey, I can I can do something.
00:26:09.920 --> 00:26:11.680
Yeah, I can do something for God.
00:26:11.839 --> 00:26:16.720
I can I can write endless songs, and and and God just really began to help me.
00:26:16.799 --> 00:26:20.319
And that's when when I began to realize, hey, you know something?
00:26:20.480 --> 00:26:23.200
I I never had in my head about preacher or anything like that.
00:26:23.279 --> 00:26:24.799
I just want to tell people about Jesus.
00:26:24.960 --> 00:26:25.920
That's all I wanted to do.
00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:34.079
I think that's what's so amazing about the local church, especially in our fellowship, is you don't have to just be a bystander in the pews watching the preacher preach.
00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:38.880
You could actually get involved and in, you know, preach the gospel in your own way.
00:26:38.960 --> 00:26:41.119
It doesn't always have to be over a pulpit.
00:26:41.599 --> 00:26:49.440
So so what was the switch from okay, I'll I just want to be a rapper to uh uh this this preaching thing kind of sounds it sounds like something God's calling me to.
00:26:49.599 --> 00:26:49.920
Honestly.
00:26:51.920 --> 00:26:54.400
Um well, yeah, because I rap for a long time.
00:26:54.480 --> 00:26:58.799
I was even um I got married in 1990.
00:26:58.880 --> 00:27:01.759
I was doing music the whole time.
00:27:02.319 --> 00:27:08.240
I became outreach leader in in like 19, maybe 1990 as well.
00:27:08.559 --> 00:27:16.240
Um I was outreach leader for three years, and no one ever said anything to me about going out to pioneer.
00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:17.839
They never even brought it up.
00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:21.200
So and I I wasn't, I'll be totally honest with you.
00:27:21.279 --> 00:27:23.279
I that was not even on the radar for me.
00:27:23.359 --> 00:27:23.680
Yeah.
00:27:23.920 --> 00:27:30.160
I'm like, yo, I'm having such a good time leading worship, because I was a worship leader as well.
00:27:30.319 --> 00:27:33.759
I'm having such a good time writing songs and I'm on the streets.
00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:36.319
I never even thought about it.
00:27:36.400 --> 00:27:37.279
It never came.
00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:40.640
Me and my wife never even talked about, hey, you know something we're gonna go pioneer.
00:27:40.720 --> 00:27:41.359
I never thought about it.
00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:48.559
Then one day I'm I'm coming home from work and the Spirit of God speaks to me.
00:27:49.200 --> 00:27:51.039
Says, go to the church.
00:27:51.279 --> 00:27:54.000
And I'm like, not when it's 100 and something degrees outside.
00:27:54.319 --> 00:27:57.680
Because channel church, you it would take days to cool that building off.
00:27:57.839 --> 00:27:59.680
And so I'm like, I'm not going down there.
00:27:59.759 --> 00:28:02.960
I'm like, God, if you're gonna speak to me, you need to speak to me in the AC.
00:28:03.039 --> 00:28:04.079
I'm not going down there.
00:28:04.240 --> 00:28:06.480
So I walk in, I walk in that channel church.
00:28:06.720 --> 00:28:11.359
And so the the prayer room where I was gonna go pray, it was it's it's a prayer room slash nursery.
00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:13.039
It smelled like baby pee in there, man.
00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:15.519
It smelled like it just had that smell in there, man.
00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:16.319
I didn't want to go in there.
00:28:16.400 --> 00:28:35.680
I walk in there like I turn the AC on, and right when I flip the switch for the AC, the Spirit of God hits me, and I fall down on my face, and I'm on the ground like this, and God speaks to me, and he says, He wants me to go to Virginia Beach.
00:28:36.160 --> 00:28:41.920
I had never, ever had a calling like that at all.
00:28:42.160 --> 00:28:46.000
And it was, and I'm weeping, I'm crying, and I just said, Thank you, God.
00:28:46.400 --> 00:28:50.480
I got up and I went home and I told Daphne, I said, Hey Daphne, this is what happened.
00:28:50.640 --> 00:28:52.400
And she's like, What are you gonna do?
00:28:52.559 --> 00:28:54.880
I said, Well, tell Pastor what happened.
00:28:55.119 --> 00:28:58.559
So I said, Um, I don't know if I called Pastor, I talked to him.
00:28:58.640 --> 00:29:00.720
I don't think I called him because I didn't call him much back then.
00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:02.480
When I saw him, I said, This is what happened.
00:29:02.559 --> 00:29:03.359
He says, Really?
00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:04.400
That's great.
00:29:04.720 --> 00:29:06.559
He said, That's a long way.
00:29:07.440 --> 00:29:11.440
He said, but if God called you, then we'll send you.
00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:12.000
Wow.
00:29:12.240 --> 00:29:15.759
And then that's when Daphne and I went to Virginia Beach in 1993.
00:29:15.920 --> 00:29:16.319
Wow.
00:29:16.559 --> 00:29:29.119
And so if I can be honest with you, pioneering was never something that I was striving to do and be.
00:29:29.920 --> 00:29:33.680
What I wanted to do is I wanted to see my church grow.
00:29:33.920 --> 00:29:35.680
I didn't care about anything else.
00:29:35.920 --> 00:29:40.640
All I cared about is winning souls, seeing people lock in for the kingdom.
00:29:40.960 --> 00:29:42.160
That's all I cared about.
00:29:42.400 --> 00:29:42.720
Yeah.
00:29:43.039 --> 00:29:45.440
And I think sometimes we get it backwards.
00:29:46.319 --> 00:29:49.200
And so guys and girls get so passionate.
00:29:49.279 --> 00:29:55.039
You so you had the young girl who will say, you know, I want to be a pastor's wife, and I still don't know what that looks like.
00:29:55.279 --> 00:29:58.799
Maybe somebody who's there, if you're watching, you can tell me what that looks like.
00:29:59.039 --> 00:30:03.039
You don't want to be a pastor's wife, and you have the guy, you know, I want to be a pioneer pastor.
00:30:03.119 --> 00:30:20.240
But the reality is, if you don't have it in you, the wherewithal and the passion to see your local church pioneered and grow and flourish and see people lock in in the kingdom of God, I don't know how good of a pioneer that you're actually going to be.
00:30:20.400 --> 00:30:28.240
And so, on one hand, somebody can look at me and say, Oh man, what kind of outreach leader do you have that stays in that position for three years?
00:30:28.720 --> 00:30:34.640
I think it helped me because I was able to understand that pioneering is going to be tough.
00:30:34.720 --> 00:30:37.200
It's the hardest thing I've ever done in my life, pioneering.
00:30:37.519 --> 00:30:39.359
And so I hope I answered your question.
00:30:39.599 --> 00:30:40.079
No, you didn't.
00:30:40.160 --> 00:30:40.319
No.
00:30:40.880 --> 00:30:41.519
You know what?
00:30:41.839 --> 00:30:52.640
That's I'm I'm having revelation right now as you're speaking, because I think church kids in our fellowship are challenged constantly.
00:30:53.759 --> 00:30:55.119
Pioneer, pioneer, pioneer.
00:30:55.200 --> 00:30:55.359
Right.
00:30:55.519 --> 00:31:00.000
And we lose the focus oftentimes of the local church.
00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:01.839
This is this is where you're shaped.
00:31:01.920 --> 00:31:04.880
This is this is where that transition happens.
00:31:05.440 --> 00:31:08.319
And oftentimes you just you just said it kind of putting the cart before the horse.
00:31:08.799 --> 00:31:09.039
Yeah.
00:31:09.359 --> 00:31:10.400
I did in my life.
00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:14.640
I mean, I had been married six months, and my wife and I are like, let's go to Africa, you know.
00:31:15.119 --> 00:31:16.400
Which is we want that.
00:31:16.640 --> 00:31:17.200
Right, right.
00:31:17.440 --> 00:31:22.079
Um, but we hadn't even gotten our home figured out.
00:31:22.160 --> 00:31:25.920
We hadn't we hadn't done anything really to develop the church.
00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:26.400
Yeah.
00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:34.480
And I I asked a question, it might have been to you, I don't remember, but are you willing to pioneer your church?
00:31:34.720 --> 00:31:34.880
Yep.
00:31:35.839 --> 00:31:37.680
Yeah, are you willing to pioneer this place?
00:31:37.920 --> 00:31:38.319
Right.
00:31:38.480 --> 00:31:42.640
Um, in other words, you know, blood, sweat, and tears for your home church.
00:31:42.799 --> 00:31:43.440
Right, right.
00:31:44.079 --> 00:31:53.200
Build this place, and then if if that's if that's what God wants you to do, and that's what your pastor's in alignment with, then sure, you can build another place.
00:31:53.279 --> 00:31:54.400
But you you just said it, you know?
00:31:54.559 --> 00:31:54.720
Yeah.
00:31:54.880 --> 00:31:56.880
Uh I wanted to build Chandler.
00:31:57.039 --> 00:31:57.200
Right.
00:31:57.359 --> 00:31:58.000
That's what I wanted.
00:31:58.079 --> 00:31:58.240
Yeah.
00:31:58.400 --> 00:31:58.960
That's powerful.
00:31:59.119 --> 00:31:59.359
Amen.
00:31:59.680 --> 00:32:02.960
It took it took God whacking me over the head to get that.
00:32:03.039 --> 00:32:05.200
Um I actually have it written down.
00:32:05.279 --> 00:32:06.079
I'm gonna grab it.
00:32:06.160 --> 00:32:07.359
So it's a little awkward.
00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:08.480
I gotta get up and walk away.
00:32:08.640 --> 00:32:19.920
But I've got uh a note that I wrote during conference Tom Paine was preaching, and uh he had a a challenge to the nations, and I'm already burning with the oh man.
00:32:20.559 --> 00:32:26.079
And God, I wrote down right at that moment, I have the date time stamped.
00:32:26.240 --> 00:32:31.599
I wrote down, um, God, I'm I'm availing myself to you, whatever you want.
00:32:31.759 --> 00:32:33.920
And in my mind, I'm thinking, yeah.
00:32:34.079 --> 00:32:39.759
You know, I'm seeing multitudes and foreign countries and some exotic place in Asia or something.
00:32:39.839 --> 00:32:43.839
And then right underneath it, and I I signed it.
00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:47.920
Uh I have a habit of writing down what God impresses on me during during conference.
00:32:48.079 --> 00:32:51.119
And yeah, um right under it.
00:32:51.519 --> 00:33:01.039
God is saying to me, if you'll be faithful at your place, He will resp or He will He will respond and expect to see breakthrough with the youth.
00:33:01.279 --> 00:33:02.400
And I'm like, really?
00:33:02.880 --> 00:33:05.920
I gotta be faithful members.
00:33:06.319 --> 00:33:08.000
Where the spaple thing goes.
00:33:08.799 --> 00:33:11.279
I was like, where I want the multitudes, you know?
00:33:11.680 --> 00:33:12.000
Yes.
00:33:12.240 --> 00:33:14.400
Uh that's that's good.
00:33:14.720 --> 00:33:15.200
It's true.
00:33:15.359 --> 00:33:24.559
And I and I think sometimes um, like you say, we put the the the the cart before the the horse.
00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:35.759
And really I asked Pastor Campbell, I said, Pastor, um do you think that a pioneer pastor should be a soul winner?
00:33:37.440 --> 00:33:39.599
And he said, absolutely.
00:33:40.400 --> 00:33:46.640
And I asked him, I said, would you send out a guy who's not a soul winner?
00:33:46.960 --> 00:33:49.359
He said, I wouldn't do that.
00:33:50.559 --> 00:33:57.200
I said, okay, I just want to make sure because I challenge guys who are in uh my church.
00:33:57.440 --> 00:34:08.800
If if they tell me they have a call of God on their life to go and pioneer, we can't send out people who have no passion for souls and don't have a passion for the local church.
00:34:08.960 --> 00:34:14.960
When you're gonna go plant a local church, right, but you've not even involved yourself.
00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:17.199
One of the things she said, the blood, sweat, and tears.
00:34:17.280 --> 00:34:17.519
Yeah.
00:34:17.920 --> 00:34:33.920
You know, being in the local church, man, you'll die like multiple times, whether it be of your own pride, sometimes the death of your own, maybe own preconceived notions and expectations, but you have to have those seasons to feel how it feels.
00:34:34.320 --> 00:34:39.440
To be able to step into a situation to where you have nobody come.
00:34:40.239 --> 00:34:46.960
I think one of the things that's shocking to a pioneer pastor is when no one shows up.
00:34:47.920 --> 00:34:52.960
That is probably one of the most, on one hand, it's humiliating.
00:34:54.000 --> 00:34:56.320
And it's okay to have faith, because I had faith.
00:34:56.480 --> 00:34:58.800
Our first Bible study, I mean, I had faith.
00:34:58.880 --> 00:35:05.119
I was believing we had chips and bowls of chips and sodas and lined the whole room with chairs.
00:35:05.360 --> 00:35:06.880
And it was time for us to start.
00:35:06.960 --> 00:35:07.679
Nobody's there.
00:35:08.079 --> 00:35:10.159
And then I'm peeking out the window.
00:35:10.239 --> 00:35:12.960
I keep looking out the window, and finally I see this Asian guy.
00:35:13.039 --> 00:35:16.239
He comes across with this bike, and I'm like, God please, God please.
00:35:16.400 --> 00:35:24.079
He locks up his bike around the tree that's in the front of our apartment, and I hear the door of the of the door of the apartment open.
00:35:25.199 --> 00:35:26.159
He comes in, man.
00:35:26.239 --> 00:35:28.000
Right when he gets ready to knock on the door, I answer.
00:35:28.239 --> 00:35:31.599
Hey! Man, I was so happy.
00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:33.039
I said, Thank God you came.
00:35:33.119 --> 00:35:34.400
He says, My sister's coming.
00:35:34.480 --> 00:35:35.119
I remember her name.
00:35:35.199 --> 00:35:35.920
Her name is Jane.
00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:37.679
He said, Oh, my sister Jane's coming too.
00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:38.559
I said, Thank God.
00:35:38.719 --> 00:35:41.199
Now, granted, they never ever came back again.
00:35:41.440 --> 00:35:45.039
But I remember saying to myself, this is what this looks like.
00:35:45.119 --> 00:35:45.360
Yeah.
00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:47.119
This is what the other side looks like.
00:35:47.280 --> 00:36:00.239
But I think just being in Chandler for all those years and being in the trenches for all of those years and being on the front line for all of those years gave me such an opportunity to work some things out.
00:36:00.400 --> 00:36:03.119
And even with all those years, I wasn't prepared for that.
00:36:03.360 --> 00:36:03.840
Right, right.
00:36:04.079 --> 00:36:04.320
Amen.
00:36:05.039 --> 00:36:06.559
My name is David Singwin.
00:36:06.719 --> 00:36:07.920
I am 54 years old.
00:36:08.079 --> 00:36:12.800
I got saved when I was, I believe, 28 years old.
00:36:13.039 --> 00:36:21.039
I remember uh very long time ago when I was in my you know house and somebody knocked on the door and started telling me about Jesus Christ.
00:36:21.119 --> 00:36:24.880
I probably couldn't have been more than eight, nine, ten years old.
00:36:24.960 --> 00:36:37.679
And I remember uh listening to that man, and then all of a sudden I remember my dad coming over, talking to me for a few seconds, and then slam the door in his face, and then he turned down, turned to me and he said, I'm just trying to give you a choice, son.
00:36:37.840 --> 00:36:44.639
And uh I remember thinking that is exactly who I was my entire life before I met Christ.
00:36:44.880 --> 00:36:48.400
Is it didn't matter if there was a physical door.
00:36:48.559 --> 00:36:59.519
I would literally, while while you were telling me about Jesus Christ, at any point in my life, at any reference point that anybody ever talked about God, it didn't matter if there was a physical door.
00:36:59.679 --> 00:37:04.639
I slammed the door in their face in my mind, and I would say, I'm not choosing you.
00:37:04.800 --> 00:37:10.079
I I'm better than that, and I'm more intellectual, and uh I'm smarter than that.
00:37:10.159 --> 00:37:15.840
I'm not going to fall for something that just believes in anything just because somebody doesn't know anything.
00:37:16.159 --> 00:37:18.480
But it was my own choices in life.
00:37:18.559 --> 00:37:30.880
I be I got married, then I ended up not being faithful in my marriage, neither was my wife, my previous wife, and we ended up uh getting a divorce, and then I became suicidal.
00:37:31.119 --> 00:37:33.280
Uh suicidal for a very long time.
00:37:33.440 --> 00:37:41.280
Um you would think that things would get better, it just got worse and worse and worse and heavier and heavier and heavier, and then I got stationed in Italy.
00:37:41.440 --> 00:38:01.920
When I got stationed in Italy, that's when things really got brat bad because I did not know anybody, I did not have any friends, and I felt like uh everything was so weighty and so heavy in my life that I literally felt like I don't know what up what's going on, and I ended up um doing something incredibly stupid.
00:38:02.159 --> 00:38:06.000
Um it catapulted me into suicidal feelings.
00:38:06.159 --> 00:38:07.119
I was hysterical.
00:38:07.199 --> 00:38:14.800
I remember staring staying up for days on end, uh crying and then laughing, knowing in my mind that I was gonna kill myself.
00:38:14.960 --> 00:38:16.239
I knew I was gonna kill myself.
00:38:16.400 --> 00:38:18.239
I was happy I was going to kill myself.
00:38:18.480 --> 00:38:28.079
Every day I would walk home from work, tears rolling down my face, and I would literally be smiling, knowing that my pain was gonna end soon.
00:38:28.320 --> 00:38:32.000
And uh and I kept living like that for about a year.
00:38:32.239 --> 00:38:38.960
Um I have attempted, um, I attempted to hang myself, I attempted uh to find a gun, I could not find a gun.
00:38:39.039 --> 00:38:44.320
I was I just wanted to end it quickly, and then I ended up being when I was in Italy, I remember finding a cliff.
00:38:44.400 --> 00:39:07.119
It was like a thousand-foot cliff in in s in some place in Italy, and um I convinced somebody to drive me there, and I ended up climbing that cliff, and as I was on the top of that cliff, when I got to the top, I remember thinking to myself, at the edge, I remember thinking to myself, um is when I land, I was thinking about jumping.
00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:12.400
When I land, will the pain begin or would it end?
00:39:12.559 --> 00:39:13.519
I was not sure.
00:39:13.679 --> 00:39:14.480
I did not know.
00:39:14.639 --> 00:39:25.599
All the people, all the Christians that had come to me through the course of my life telling me there really is a hell, there really is a heaven, it's more real than the ground you're standing on, all this, I did not know.
00:39:25.679 --> 00:39:29.360
And I remember thinking to myself, do I really want to gamble right now?
00:39:29.519 --> 00:39:32.320
Do I really want to jump because I can end it right now?
00:39:32.480 --> 00:39:35.679
And I end up thinking, okay, well, there's gotta be a better way.
00:39:35.760 --> 00:39:38.320
I've never really truly tried God.
00:39:38.559 --> 00:39:51.440
For a year and a half being suicidal, I remember crying out to God every day, but then that same night I would go drinking, partying, sleeping with girls, doing anything everything that wasn't showing signs of repentance.
00:39:51.599 --> 00:39:57.360
And I remember coming down off of that cliff thinking, I have never really truly tried God.
00:39:57.599 --> 00:40:00.480
And I know that it has something to do with repentance.
00:40:00.639 --> 00:40:09.199
So I remember going down, I remember going to a church, and I remember talking to a pastor there, and I remember telling him, What if I don't believe everything in that Bible?
00:40:09.360 --> 00:40:11.039
What if I don't believe in everything in that book?
00:40:11.199 --> 00:40:14.079
And the guy said something to me that I will never forget.
00:40:14.239 --> 00:40:15.519
He said, That's okay.
00:40:15.840 --> 00:40:18.639
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
00:40:18.800 --> 00:40:22.719
And that you will never find God just by it because of this book.
00:40:22.800 --> 00:40:24.000
You find God by faith.
00:40:24.159 --> 00:40:33.119
And I realized, in order for me to find God, I needed to repent and I needed to trust in something that I could not see.
00:40:33.280 --> 00:40:36.079
And so I said, Okay, I'm gonna give my life to you.
00:40:36.159 --> 00:40:40.159
So I I 100% said, God, I give you my life.
00:40:40.320 --> 00:40:41.440
I give you everything.
00:40:41.679 --> 00:40:50.960
There's not a single if my my life and my body and my soul is like a house, I give you every room, every decision, everything I repent.
00:40:51.039 --> 00:40:52.079
I turn away from it.
00:40:52.639 --> 00:40:59.440
And when I did that, for the very first time in my life, when I truly gave him everything, that's when God showed up.
00:40:59.599 --> 00:41:03.119
I remember thinking, oh my gosh, God is real.
00:41:03.440 --> 00:41:06.719
God says he confirms himself in signs, miracles, and wonders.
00:41:06.880 --> 00:41:08.079
And that's exactly what he did.
00:41:08.239 --> 00:41:12.639
He brought me to a place where I was thoroughly convinced that God was real.
00:41:12.800 --> 00:41:16.320
And I remember thinking to myself, my gosh, what can you do with me?
00:41:16.400 --> 00:41:17.280
I am so broken.
00:41:17.360 --> 00:41:21.840
I I can't even tell you how many times that I've told God, God, I am so broken on the inside.
00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:24.320
How can you possibly use me on the outside?
00:41:24.880 --> 00:41:35.119
I remember years later, a man named uh Kerry Torres, after I did a Bible study, and after this Bible study, he came up to me afterwards and he said, David, can I share something with you?
00:41:35.280 --> 00:41:35.920
And I said, What?
00:41:36.079 --> 00:41:41.440
And he goes, When you first came into this church, I thought you were so crazy that you are not gonna make it.
00:41:41.599 --> 00:41:44.800
But here you are today, and I can see where God has brought you.
00:41:45.119 --> 00:41:48.880
And I want to tell you that that is exactly what God has done with my life.
00:41:49.280 --> 00:41:52.639
He has brought me to a place where I did not even think it could happen.
00:41:52.800 --> 00:41:55.920
Only God could have brought me and done what he did in my life.
00:41:56.239 --> 00:42:02.159
He can bring your life to a place where people look at your life and say, Man, you would never know you were a drug addict.
00:42:02.239 --> 00:42:05.920
You would never know that your marriage was jacked up, you would never know that you were suicidal.
00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:07.440
That's exactly what God did in my life.
00:42:07.679 --> 00:42:09.280
I am a living testimony.
00:42:09.760 --> 00:42:19.119
God can take the most miserable, wretched, crazy person and bring him to sanity and now has a beautiful wife, beautiful job, and beautiful friends.
00:42:19.360 --> 00:42:21.360
And that's exactly what God did in my life.
00:42:21.599 --> 00:42:23.519
So I uh grabbed this.
00:42:23.679 --> 00:42:26.559
This is from 2020, so six years ago now.
00:42:26.719 --> 00:42:29.920
That was the um God speaking.
00:42:30.719 --> 00:42:34.719
I can't see, so I gotta put my I should have I should have just read it to you.
00:42:34.960 --> 00:42:37.119
No, no, I'm gonna make sure you're being truthful.
00:42:38.079 --> 00:42:38.639
It's fact checking.
00:42:40.320 --> 00:42:47.920
Is that that kind of stirring in me, you know, of and actually I I said in our last episode, man, I would get vexed.
00:42:48.159 --> 00:42:49.760
I would get vexed at conference.
00:42:49.840 --> 00:42:52.639
I'd end every conference and feeling defeated.
00:42:52.880 --> 00:42:55.519
It's like, God, I know what you want for me, you know.
00:42:55.760 --> 00:43:01.360
And then uh this is this is that critical moment where it's like, hey, look, you don't need to go take the nations.
00:43:01.440 --> 00:43:05.519
You need to you need to invest in somebody in your church.
00:43:05.760 --> 00:43:08.079
Like refocus your your your life.
00:43:08.559 --> 00:43:09.840
I love you signed it.
00:43:10.960 --> 00:43:11.440
Yep.
00:43:11.679 --> 00:43:12.480
That's powerful.
00:43:12.719 --> 00:43:14.559
Yeah, God's and God's faithful.
00:43:14.639 --> 00:43:17.760
This is um that's a watershed kind of moment in my life.
00:43:17.920 --> 00:43:25.840
It's uh something like we can look back, and that was actually you were 14 at that time, six years ago.
00:43:26.079 --> 00:43:28.480
I'm 19 right now, so no, I was probably 13.
00:43:28.719 --> 00:43:29.039
13.
00:43:29.199 --> 00:43:34.239
So it was right as we were transitioning Sunday schools, and I took over that Sunday school.
00:43:34.400 --> 00:43:42.480
And Malachi back there got saved that year, you got saved that year, your brother got saved, and we just watched I was like, whoa.
00:43:43.039 --> 00:43:44.079
That's God in action.
00:43:44.320 --> 00:43:45.119
Right, exactly.
00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:52.400
Yeah, it's beyond beyond, you know, that that that focus on kind of the my place of ministry in the local church.
00:43:52.480 --> 00:43:57.840
Yeah, and that helped me, it shaped me, it trained me in a lot of ways.
00:43:57.920 --> 00:43:59.760
Um, I don't know that uh I don't know.
00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:07.679
That I'll ever pioneer or or you know be a uh overseas missionary or anything like that, but I know that I can have impact here.
00:44:07.840 --> 00:44:09.119
Yes, and people need that.
00:44:09.280 --> 00:44:09.920
People need that.
00:44:10.239 --> 00:44:10.559
Amen.
00:44:10.800 --> 00:44:11.679
That's good.
00:44:12.480 --> 00:44:22.079
So you decided were discipled in the church, and then you felt called to preach, and now you're on a plane over to Virginia Beach.
00:44:22.400 --> 00:44:22.880
Not on a plane.
00:44:23.199 --> 00:44:23.679
Not on a plane.
00:44:23.760 --> 00:44:24.239
Oh, you drove.
00:44:25.360 --> 00:44:26.239
Actually, rider truck.
00:44:26.320 --> 00:44:26.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:44:27.119 --> 00:44:27.920
Rider truck.
00:44:28.079 --> 00:44:29.119
So so how was that?
00:44:29.440 --> 00:44:32.000
Landing, uh, landing, touching base there.
00:44:32.239 --> 00:44:34.400
What was the what was the first thing on your mind?
00:44:34.719 --> 00:44:37.599
Well, um, finding a place to live.
00:44:37.760 --> 00:44:38.079
Okay.
00:44:38.880 --> 00:44:41.440
And it did not go well.
00:44:42.159 --> 00:44:44.079
Finding a place to live, had a very hard time.
00:44:44.159 --> 00:44:47.199
So when I got there, we went and looked at a place.
00:44:47.280 --> 00:44:48.559
They're asking me all this stuff.
00:44:48.639 --> 00:44:49.679
Can I get a co-signer?
00:44:49.760 --> 00:44:50.239
Can I do this?
00:44:50.320 --> 00:44:53.440
I'm like, no, I I I don't have anybody to help me.
00:44:53.519 --> 00:44:54.239
It's just me.
00:44:54.800 --> 00:45:01.199
Then the guy who actually uh was from our church in Chandler, he was actually getting moved.
00:45:01.360 --> 00:45:03.599
So he's the only person that was there I knew.
00:45:03.840 --> 00:45:07.039
He's actually getting moved back to Chandler for his job.
00:45:07.119 --> 00:45:08.880
So now I'm gonna be out there by myself.
00:45:09.039 --> 00:45:11.599
So he let us stay, um, he let us stay with him.
00:45:11.760 --> 00:45:13.760
It's Carl Millerman, a good friend of mine.
00:45:13.920 --> 00:45:16.320
Uh Carl let us stay at his house.
00:45:16.559 --> 00:45:22.639
We had to unload everything, if I remember, all of our stuff in their garage because we had to turn the truck back in.
00:45:22.880 --> 00:45:32.239
Then I had to hire another truck, reload everything to take to our apartment, and finally we we got an apartment, but it was in a dodgy neighborhood.
00:45:32.320 --> 00:45:35.119
Now, during the day it looked great.
00:45:36.079 --> 00:45:37.119
So you always go at night.
00:45:37.599 --> 00:45:38.320
Always go at night.
00:45:38.400 --> 00:45:40.880
If anybody's watching too, always go at night.
00:45:41.039 --> 00:45:47.440
So during the day, man, it was beautiful and brick, brick buildings and look very nice nighttime, man.
00:45:47.599 --> 00:45:50.559
No, it's bad, bad, bad.
00:45:50.719 --> 00:45:53.280
And that's where we set up, uh that's where we set up camp.
00:45:53.360 --> 00:45:57.119
So it didn't go quite the way I I had anticipated.
00:45:57.360 --> 00:46:08.800
And actually, the first um Saturday that I was gonna go outreach, I struggled because I didn't have nobody behind you.
00:46:09.280 --> 00:46:10.800
I didn't know if my wife wanted to go.
00:46:12.159 --> 00:46:20.239
I did have my I did have my I had my little dog, but but um in uh so I remember I said, man, outreach today.
00:46:20.400 --> 00:46:20.639
Yeah.
00:46:20.960 --> 00:46:24.719
Or outreach tomorrow, or outreach maybe Wednesday.
00:46:25.760 --> 00:46:27.519
And so that was a that was a little bit of a struggle.
00:46:27.840 --> 00:46:32.559
Because Pioneer will always test your your disciplines.
00:46:32.960 --> 00:46:34.159
We'll always test your disciplines.
00:46:34.480 --> 00:46:34.960
Nobody's watching you.
00:46:35.280 --> 00:46:37.599
Nobody's watching you, and nobody nobody's gonna pull you up.
00:46:37.760 --> 00:46:39.840
And and so it was a it was a little testy.
00:46:39.920 --> 00:46:44.239
And so I began to learn real quick, okay, uh this is for big boys right now.
00:46:44.400 --> 00:46:45.840
You're gonna find out what you're made of.
00:46:46.079 --> 00:46:49.519
You and you're just gonna repeat the patterns you learned in the Chandler Church, right?
00:46:50.000 --> 00:46:57.519
That was that was a plan to repeat the pattern, you know, Saturday, uh Saturday outreach and prayer meeting and all those things.
00:46:57.599 --> 00:46:58.239
That was a plan.
00:46:58.639 --> 00:46:59.360
I tried to.
00:46:59.599 --> 00:47:00.880
I think I did okay.
00:47:01.360 --> 00:47:02.559
I think so, because you're here you're here.
00:47:03.039 --> 00:47:04.639
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:47:04.960 --> 00:47:08.639
Yeah, that's uh it's uh the cost of uh evangelizing.
00:47:08.800 --> 00:47:12.719
And I think that's uh like I said, I I saw the throngs of people.
00:47:12.880 --> 00:47:14.400
Uh what must I do to be saved?
00:47:14.559 --> 00:47:15.119
Yeah.
00:47:15.599 --> 00:47:17.039
I grew up in a pioneer church.
00:47:17.440 --> 00:47:18.639
That rarely is the case.
00:47:18.960 --> 00:47:20.159
Right, right, exactly.
00:47:20.400 --> 00:47:20.719
Yeah.
00:47:22.320 --> 00:47:24.880
We take for granted what we have in the Mother Church.
00:47:25.039 --> 00:47:30.719
We can get to the point where we think, you know, when I go out, I'm gonna instant instantaneous instantaneously reproduce exactly what we have.
00:47:31.039 --> 00:47:31.679
Right, right.
00:47:31.920 --> 00:47:32.239
Woo!
00:47:33.440 --> 00:47:36.480
And maybe it's a good thing to have that that vision and that zeal.
00:47:36.880 --> 00:47:40.000
It's better is better than not having the vision and not having the zeal.
00:47:40.159 --> 00:47:50.880
So it's good, but you can't allow yourself to be absolutely uh uh flattened by not having the successful first Bible study, yeah.
00:47:51.039 --> 00:47:58.880
Not having the first successful uh uh church meeting, um, not having the first successful outreach.
00:47:59.119 --> 00:48:07.519
Um one of the things that helped me when I went and pioneered is I always remembered how I got to church.
00:48:08.159 --> 00:48:09.199
I never forgot that.
00:48:09.280 --> 00:48:11.760
Yeah, the way that I got to church is somebody invited me.
00:48:12.079 --> 00:48:18.480
So how how are we gonna get people to come to this apartment in Virginia Beach?
00:48:18.960 --> 00:48:20.800
How are we gonna do that?
00:48:21.039 --> 00:48:28.079
We're gonna go out and we're gonna meet people the same way that Gene Proctor met me.
00:48:28.159 --> 00:48:30.480
Yeah, that's what we're that's what we're gonna do.
00:48:30.639 --> 00:48:35.039
We're gonna go out, we're gonna, we're gonna talk to people, we're gonna meet people.
00:48:35.440 --> 00:48:39.360
That's that's what I find so powerful about the Chandler Church.
00:48:39.840 --> 00:48:45.920
The Chandler Church is filled with people who know how to evangelize personally.
00:48:46.800 --> 00:48:56.960
Big events are great, but one-on-one evangelism and meeting people and connecting with people, that is priceless.
00:48:57.199 --> 00:48:59.360
And Chandler is full of people like that.
00:48:59.599 --> 00:49:05.920
So Virg the Virginia Beach Church, um, the church that you pioneered is still thriving.
00:49:06.239 --> 00:49:08.559
Adam Dragoon was there for years and years and years, yeah.
00:49:08.800 --> 00:49:11.360
And it's it's a it's a it's a large fellowship church now.
00:49:11.440 --> 00:49:11.599
Yeah.
00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:26.559
And uh there's always this kind of like black hole that I'm always curious about of getting from that place of landing, getting started to where we are today, where we see completely reproduced what we are as a fellowship.
00:49:26.719 --> 00:49:27.119
Right.
00:49:27.360 --> 00:49:30.639
Um, and then sending out churches again to do it all over again.
00:49:32.400 --> 00:49:42.800
From that first landing, maybe your first disciple, how do you impart fellowship vision into a a person that maybe has had never uh never had exposure, like like you?
00:49:43.679 --> 00:49:47.280
It's not a it's not a church full of people, it's it's you and your wife.
00:49:47.519 --> 00:49:48.159
Right, right.
00:49:48.320 --> 00:49:55.679
Um what what practical steps would you give to a uh pioneering couple, maybe as they're stepping out?
00:49:56.000 --> 00:49:56.639
That's a good question.
00:49:56.719 --> 00:50:04.079
I I what helped us is only what I knew and what I what I received in my life.
00:50:04.320 --> 00:50:11.119
And it was me and Daphne, we didn't have any kids, and I remember the first couple in our church.
00:50:11.360 --> 00:50:16.000
I met Tony Chase at a swimming pool.
00:50:16.639 --> 00:50:25.199
I didn't know him from anybody, and actually we were just there because they were giving some free food away at the pool and they had the complex having a uh uh little get together.
00:50:25.599 --> 00:50:31.920
Went over there, he needed um he needed a lighter or something to smoke a cigarette.
00:50:32.079 --> 00:50:34.320
I said, bro, I'll have a lighter, but I got Jesus.
00:50:34.480 --> 00:50:36.000
He's like, tell me about Jesus.
00:50:36.239 --> 00:50:39.360
And I don't know if he was being sarcastic, trying to be snarky or whatever.
00:50:39.519 --> 00:50:41.039
So I witnessed to him.
00:50:41.199 --> 00:50:43.360
And uh I don't know if he prayed with me that day.
00:50:43.519 --> 00:50:45.519
I kind of remember he did pray with me there.
00:50:45.679 --> 00:50:52.400
Um, but either way, he said, I will be at your house Sunday morning, me and my wife.
00:50:52.559 --> 00:50:53.599
You have my word.
00:50:54.320 --> 00:51:01.679
And uh sure enough, he shows up with his wife, who's pregnant, and two babies.
00:51:01.840 --> 00:51:02.880
I think he's only 19.
00:51:03.039 --> 00:51:03.519
Oh wow.
00:51:03.920 --> 00:51:10.480
He got two babies, six months, old uh twins, and one on the way, and they show up.
00:51:10.719 --> 00:51:12.719
And I'm like, oh man.
00:51:13.119 --> 00:51:14.880
And uh, but you know what?
00:51:15.840 --> 00:51:18.159
They were wild, we were wild.
00:51:18.480 --> 00:51:22.079
They were broken, we were actually still broken, to be quite honest with you.
00:51:22.159 --> 00:51:32.400
There was a lot of things about us that were broken, but I remember um Tori Chase, you know, she's a great woman of God.
00:51:32.639 --> 00:51:35.760
Um she would not talk at all.
00:51:36.320 --> 00:51:40.000
But she would come over almost every day and just sit with my wife.
00:51:40.719 --> 00:51:41.840
But she wouldn't say anything.
00:51:42.159 --> 00:51:46.000
And so I remember saying to Daphne, I said, Does she talk?
00:51:46.400 --> 00:51:47.760
Daphne said, She talks to me.
00:51:47.840 --> 00:51:48.800
She probably won't talk to you.
00:51:50.960 --> 00:51:59.679
And so uh and so my point is simply this I didn't know a whole lot, but I didn't know if you love people.
00:52:00.559 --> 00:52:03.599
If you love people, they can make it.
00:52:03.920 --> 00:52:10.800
I didn't I didn't try to give Tony a bunch of stuff, peripheral stuff, because that's not what he needed.
00:52:10.880 --> 00:52:13.760
Yeah, he needed to know people loved him.
00:52:13.840 --> 00:52:14.159
Yeah.
00:52:14.400 --> 00:52:16.960
So I wasn't real heavy on a bunch of this stuff.
00:52:17.039 --> 00:52:20.000
I wasn't heavy on, hey, we raise up disciples here.
00:52:20.639 --> 00:52:22.400
He don't know nothing about no disciple.
00:52:22.480 --> 00:52:22.800
Right.
00:52:23.039 --> 00:52:35.039
All he knows is I'm out here, I'm in the military, I'm I'm estranged from my family, and this guy is showing interest in me.
00:52:35.519 --> 00:52:37.440
So we were all broke together.
00:52:37.599 --> 00:52:38.480
We're all poor.
00:52:38.719 --> 00:52:39.920
But we're gonna be poor together.
00:52:40.000 --> 00:52:45.599
We're gonna eat cabbage and bacon together, and we became just super, super, super close.
00:52:46.159 --> 00:52:53.440
And and you know, I didn't really know a whole lot as far as a lot of technical things.
00:52:53.679 --> 00:52:58.320
I wouldn't even necessarily call it fellowship principles.
00:52:59.119 --> 00:53:00.480
Because I wouldn't coin it that.
00:53:00.559 --> 00:53:02.079
I wouldn't phrase it that way.
00:53:02.239 --> 00:53:07.440
I would just phrase it as what I seen the Chandler Church do, which were biblical things.
00:53:07.599 --> 00:53:09.519
I said, okay, I'm gonna do that.
00:53:09.599 --> 00:53:11.119
I'm gonna do that here.
00:53:11.599 --> 00:53:13.440
I'm gonna challenge them to pray.
00:53:13.599 --> 00:53:18.159
I'm gonna challenge him to be in church, I'm gonna challenge him to be a man of God and be a father.
00:53:18.320 --> 00:53:19.599
You you get what I'm saying?
00:53:19.840 --> 00:53:28.559
And so um I remember talking to Tony even here recently, you know, and he said, Oh, Pastor, man, you said so many good things.
00:53:28.639 --> 00:53:30.639
And I'm like, Did?
00:53:31.679 --> 00:53:37.679
So I remember not too long ago, he said, Oh, Pastor, I remember one time you told me X, Y, Z.
00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:41.280
I said, that could not have been me.
00:53:41.679 --> 00:53:43.280
There is no way, Tony.
00:53:43.440 --> 00:53:45.599
And he said to me, He says, Who else would it have been?
00:53:45.840 --> 00:53:47.440
You're the only person that was there.
00:53:47.599 --> 00:54:00.000
And it's like, God supernaturally, he supernaturally infused things in me from my mother church and discipleship in my mother church that was impartation.
00:54:00.079 --> 00:54:03.119
It had to have been because I'm not that swift of a guy.
00:54:03.360 --> 00:54:07.920
That at the right time, in the right setting, it came out.
00:54:08.320 --> 00:54:13.840
And to this day, most of the things that he said, I said, I don't remember at all.
00:54:14.000 --> 00:54:15.440
But he's around to tell the story.
00:54:15.760 --> 00:54:16.239
That's cool.
00:54:16.320 --> 00:54:19.119
So, Tony, if you're watching, keep keep keep with the good stories, bro.
00:54:19.280 --> 00:54:19.599
Love you.
00:54:20.719 --> 00:54:37.760
I think um one of the the critical components and aspects of a healthy church, I think we focus oftentimes on uh, you know, a man's calling, and uh, you know, we're all men here, and and you know, I was shaped, etc.
00:54:38.000 --> 00:54:50.400
But I can tell you the most, the single most influential person in my life, apart from maybe my parents, maybe to some degree, first half of my life, um, has been my wife.
00:54:50.880 --> 00:54:55.760
Uh when I was an idiot, she helped me to stop being an idiot, right?
00:54:55.920 --> 00:54:57.519
Sometimes by calling me an idiot.
00:54:59.199 --> 00:55:06.400
Um and and she's just been she's been my rock in my life when I've been all over the place and she's consistent.
00:55:06.559 --> 00:55:12.880
Um there was a period of my life where I backslid young in in marriage and uh walked away from Christ.
00:55:12.960 --> 00:55:16.719
My wife never wavered, and she still took the kids to church and all this.
00:55:17.119 --> 00:55:30.400
And I know if ever I was to go out, if I didn't have that solid, uh really the foundation of of who I am as a man is what my wife is.
00:55:30.639 --> 00:55:34.079
If I didn't have that, there's no way I would survive.
00:55:34.320 --> 00:55:34.559
Right.
00:55:34.719 --> 00:56:03.360
And I'm I'm curious, um, your thoughts on the local body and the the relationships in the local body and marriage in the local body, and uh uh how much you feel marriage plays a part of shaping who we are as men, and you know, our wives, or for women, you know, their husbands and and that that sacred relationship, how much that plays a part into this grander thing of being forged and and and destiny and calling.
00:56:03.679 --> 00:56:05.280
Wow, that's a lot there.
00:56:05.360 --> 00:56:17.280
We almost could do a whole podcast on just that, but um I can I can speak for myself and and and my marriage and my relationship with my wife.
00:56:17.679 --> 00:56:28.639
One of the things that attracted me to her was her strong belief in Christ and her disciplines in prayer.
00:56:28.800 --> 00:56:31.519
I found that to be very, very attractive.
00:56:31.760 --> 00:56:37.360
Um, a lot of the things that she did, she would go, she would go and evangelize by herself.
00:56:37.440 --> 00:56:39.119
She goes street preach by herself.
00:56:39.920 --> 00:56:42.239
And and she was always in prayer.
00:56:42.480 --> 00:56:45.920
And um I found that really, really attractive.
00:56:46.000 --> 00:56:50.000
I'm like, man, I gotta be honest, I wasn't even that on fire.
00:56:50.159 --> 00:56:51.440
But I like that from her.
00:56:51.599 --> 00:56:53.679
I'm like, yeah, we can do this, man.
00:56:54.320 --> 00:57:06.559
And so um when we when we got married, a lot of that was tested because, of course, when you first get married, um, it's like you know, trapeze, you're releasing from one and you're reaching out to the next.
00:57:06.719 --> 00:57:13.760
Uh, there's that transition, but there has to be certain things that remain in place, some mainstays.
00:57:13.840 --> 00:57:16.079
If I can say that, some mainstays.
00:57:16.320 --> 00:57:23.840
And one of the mainstays that we've always had in our relationship is that we are going to be faithful to church, right?
00:57:24.000 --> 00:57:24.079
Yeah.
00:57:24.320 --> 00:57:25.679
Non-negotiable.
00:57:26.000 --> 00:57:30.400
We are going to be faithful givers, non-negotiable.
00:57:30.559 --> 00:57:38.800
We are going to be men and women who are examples and prayer and the things of the kingdom of God and outreaching, non-negotiables.
00:57:38.960 --> 00:57:52.079
And I have to honestly confess that over the last 36 years of being married, through all the ups and downs and the ebb and flow of life, we've stayed faithful in those things.
00:57:52.320 --> 00:57:58.079
And the way that it has translated is when we got sent out, it helped us.
00:57:58.159 --> 00:57:58.800
Yeah.
00:57:59.119 --> 00:58:05.280
You don't want to get sent out to realize you don't have a prayer life.
00:58:07.039 --> 00:58:15.679
You don't want to get sent out and realize, hey, you know what, I'm not really into this evangelism thing, and not really into giving, and I'm not really into the whole faithfulness thing.
00:58:15.760 --> 00:58:17.199
It's not really for us.
00:58:17.920 --> 00:58:28.000
Um, what builds strong churches and strong culture, at least as far as our fellowship is concerned, is having couples that are on the same page.
00:58:28.079 --> 00:58:31.599
Now, they don't always have the same level of intensity, right?
00:58:31.760 --> 00:58:38.000
Because there are some times in my life that for sure Daphne is more passionate about prayer than me.
00:58:38.239 --> 00:58:39.760
Even with me being the pastor.
00:58:39.920 --> 00:58:40.320
It is.
00:58:40.480 --> 00:58:48.960
There's there's seasons where it's different, but at least we both believe and it's an active part of our lives.
00:58:49.440 --> 00:58:59.280
Every church has to have that type of quality if we're going to uh uh create an environment in a culture where young couples come along.
00:58:59.440 --> 00:59:04.800
Now we're talking about in the uh context of who we are as a fellowship.
00:59:04.960 --> 00:59:13.280
You can't have a woman who's more passionate about being a pastor than her husband is.
00:59:13.519 --> 00:59:14.000
Right.
00:59:14.320 --> 00:59:19.119
Because then ultimately he may do it because she won't leave him alone.
00:59:19.760 --> 00:59:21.360
But then he does it for the wrong reason.
00:59:21.519 --> 00:59:23.039
You get what I you get what I'm saying.
00:59:23.360 --> 00:59:24.960
And and and and vice versa.
00:59:25.199 --> 00:59:41.119
Can't be a a a husband who's passionate about uh uh uh prayer, but his wife will never, ever, ever come into the prayer room at all, and then they feel like, hey, we have a calling of God, we're gonna go pioneer church and preach.
00:59:41.199 --> 00:59:42.719
That's just not going to work.
00:59:43.280 --> 00:59:44.239
You got to be on the same page.
00:59:44.480 --> 00:59:45.840
Yeah, you you gotta be on the same page.
00:59:45.920 --> 00:59:48.400
But once again, not the same level of intensity.
00:59:48.480 --> 00:59:56.320
I I'm not expecting my wife to be, you know, passionate about things that I'm passionate about in the kingdom of God to the same level all the time.
00:59:56.480 --> 01:00:05.519
Sometimes it fluctuates, but nonetheless, there's a meeting of the minds somewhere that we say, okay, you know, no matter where we're at, we know this is important.
01:00:05.760 --> 01:00:11.519
Babe, if we're gonna survive out here, we got to keep doing what we know works.
01:00:11.679 --> 01:00:15.039
And we know it works because we saw it in our mother church.
01:00:15.360 --> 01:00:19.760
We saw it in some of the elders and some of the people that that were in the church before us.
01:00:19.920 --> 01:00:21.119
Those things never change.
01:00:21.280 --> 01:00:22.880
Those things need to be mainstays.
01:00:23.039 --> 01:00:35.440
I was talking to Pastor Campbell, and uh I was telling Pastor Campbell, I said, Pastor, us as a fellowship, we have certain things about us that are very unique.
01:00:35.840 --> 01:00:37.840
I travel all over the place.
01:00:38.000 --> 01:00:40.239
I talk to all kinds of people.
01:00:40.960 --> 01:00:42.559
Praise God, body of Christ.
01:00:42.719 --> 01:00:44.239
You do you, we do us.
01:00:44.480 --> 01:00:45.280
We're different.
01:00:46.079 --> 01:00:51.199
If we ever lose certain dynamics of who we are as a fellowship, we're cooked.
01:00:51.280 --> 01:00:51.519
Yep.
01:00:52.400 --> 01:00:59.519
Because we've never prided ourselves on being so much external people.
01:01:00.000 --> 01:01:03.920
In other words, we weren't the ones that, hey, we have the nicest building in town.
01:01:04.000 --> 01:01:04.880
You'll know who we are.
01:01:05.440 --> 01:01:10.239
Because you drive down, you know, Bethany Home, and you drive down Glendale Avenue, you're gonna see us, man.
01:01:10.320 --> 01:01:15.440
You're not gonna be able to miss us, man, because our building we took over three miles of the No, no.
01:01:15.599 --> 01:01:18.880
Most of our churches, you're really gonna have to be passionate about finding it.
01:01:19.280 --> 01:01:20.400
You know what I'm saying?
01:01:20.800 --> 01:01:22.800
Which door can you go into, man?
01:01:22.880 --> 01:01:24.079
You don't even know which door.
01:01:24.639 --> 01:01:27.039
But but once you step in, yeah.
01:01:27.360 --> 01:01:30.239
And listen, that's not a license to have the ugliest building in town.
01:01:30.800 --> 01:01:33.519
That's not what I'm saying because we're in, look around, this is beautiful.
01:01:33.760 --> 01:01:34.960
My point is simply this.
01:01:35.119 --> 01:01:39.440
I said, Pastor, we can't lose the vibrancy of our prayer meeting.
01:01:40.079 --> 01:01:40.800
We're done.
01:01:40.960 --> 01:01:41.280
Yeah.
01:01:41.679 --> 01:01:45.119
We can't lose the dynamic of our altar calls.
01:01:45.199 --> 01:01:45.519
Yeah.
01:01:45.840 --> 01:01:46.639
We're finished.
01:01:46.800 --> 01:01:49.360
If we lose that, then what else do we have?
01:01:49.920 --> 01:01:54.400
Are we the are we the church, the ugly building church, right?
01:01:54.639 --> 01:01:58.480
With no altar call and insipid prayer meetings.
01:01:58.639 --> 01:01:58.880
Right.
01:01:59.119 --> 01:02:03.760
The one thing that separated us, several things that separated us, evangelism, right?
01:02:03.920 --> 01:02:08.320
Uh church planning, um, our prayer meetings, and our dynamic altar calls.
01:02:08.559 --> 01:02:14.000
We have always believed that lives are radically changed at the altar call.
01:02:14.079 --> 01:02:15.280
I'm kind of going into a lot of stuff.
01:02:15.519 --> 01:02:18.880
Forgive me, but I'm just letting God just just just speak to me.
01:02:19.199 --> 01:02:23.679
So I said, Pastor, if we ever lose that, we're done.
01:02:23.920 --> 01:02:29.360
So when we went to Pioneer, even in our church, I had a huge pulpit.
01:02:29.440 --> 01:02:33.760
I had one bigger than Pastor Renz's pulp, but a guy in Brooklyn, he made me a huge pulpit.
01:02:34.000 --> 01:02:35.920
It took up almost a whole living room.
01:02:36.079 --> 01:02:36.719
Oh my gosh.
01:02:37.119 --> 01:02:38.960
It was massive, bro.
01:02:39.119 --> 01:02:41.599
It was huge, it was beautiful.
01:02:41.920 --> 01:02:46.000
Even in that little living room, I remember we made a place for the altar.
01:02:46.559 --> 01:02:47.199
Yeah.
01:02:48.000 --> 01:02:53.840
We made a place for the altar because I learned, okay, this is where lives are changed.
01:02:53.920 --> 01:02:54.159
Yeah.
01:02:54.320 --> 01:02:58.400
And I said, if we ever lose that, we're done.
01:02:58.559 --> 01:02:58.719
Yes.
01:02:58.960 --> 01:02:59.440
We're cooked.
01:02:59.519 --> 01:03:00.159
That's our culture.
01:03:00.239 --> 01:03:00.880
That's who we are.
01:03:01.119 --> 01:03:02.400
That identifies who we are.
01:03:02.719 --> 01:03:07.119
And you can go anywhere in the world, any church in the world, in our fellowship.
01:03:08.000 --> 01:03:10.320
And thanks be to God.
01:03:10.559 --> 01:03:21.519
By God's grace, we continue to be a church that believes in prayer meetings, we believe in altar calls, we believe in world evangelism, we believe in church planning.
01:03:21.679 --> 01:03:22.960
We have to fight for that.
01:03:23.039 --> 01:03:23.440
Yes.
01:03:23.679 --> 01:03:29.360
Because everything about the church world nowadays kind of wars against who we are.
01:03:29.519 --> 01:03:29.679
Yeah.
01:03:29.840 --> 01:03:30.880
The essence of who we are.
01:03:31.280 --> 01:03:38.079
You know, uh, we're in a we're in the social media generation where it's really easy to see.
01:03:38.400 --> 01:03:41.840
You know, there was a time when we kind of like just said, this is who we are.
01:03:41.920 --> 01:03:43.760
Why would I engage on anything else?
01:03:44.159 --> 01:03:46.000
But it's it's impossible today.
01:03:46.400 --> 01:03:56.480
If uh you've ever gone to YouTube, you get a suggested video of some worship group or something, and you're seeing that whole scene, right?
01:03:56.639 --> 01:04:06.960
And uh I think it can it can get easy um to turn into in some ways and start start morphing.
01:04:07.119 --> 01:04:12.480
There's certain areas where it's okay to it's okay to evolve and grow, and you know, we change our hairstyles.
01:04:14.800 --> 01:04:16.719
And and I get it, I get some of that.
01:04:16.880 --> 01:04:20.079
And uh, but you just laid out like these are fundamental.
01:04:20.239 --> 01:04:22.000
These are they're non-negotiables, really.
01:04:22.320 --> 01:04:24.480
This is who we have to be.
01:04:24.960 --> 01:04:31.519
Uh it's not like uh, you know, you you mentioned earlier today about setting the the baskets in the front.
01:04:31.679 --> 01:04:31.840
Yeah.
01:04:32.000 --> 01:04:36.239
And it was Nathan Brizzell who's in Montreal right now, Nathan and Tori Brizzell.
01:04:36.400 --> 01:04:42.000
And he talked about when he first went to um um Washington, and man, the struggle was real.
01:04:42.320 --> 01:04:47.760
When people come in, you mean I have to pass a a basket to the one visitor?
01:04:48.320 --> 01:04:49.679
You mean I gotta do this?
01:04:50.079 --> 01:04:50.320
Right.
01:04:50.480 --> 01:04:57.519
And I'm I'm the one guy in the church that, you know, walk up and it's the uh uh across the switch blade and exactly.
01:04:58.400 --> 01:04:59.440
I get it, you know.
01:04:59.599 --> 01:05:02.079
I can understand why you would want to put a basket in the front.
01:05:02.159 --> 01:05:08.639
That's uh that's an awkward thing, but it there's there's spiritual dynamics behind that, and there's it's it's really who we are and it's our identity.
01:05:09.039 --> 01:05:30.320
I fear to a pretty strong degree uh what the impact of what has become normal, and that is instantaneous um, I guess, uh access, if you will, or worldwide access into well, look at how they do it and look at how they do it.
01:05:30.639 --> 01:05:33.920
Never mind, you've never stepped foot in that church, you don't feel the spirit of that church.
01:05:34.000 --> 01:05:40.079
Yeah you don't see the money behind that church and what they're doing to build what they've got going on.
01:05:40.239 --> 01:05:40.320
Right.
01:05:40.480 --> 01:05:42.079
You don't understand a lot of that.
01:05:42.320 --> 01:05:51.760
Um but we already talked about what we've what what the the forefathers of our fellowship have have fought for vehemently.
01:05:52.880 --> 01:05:58.480
And so so casually we can kind of write that off as we have a better idea, right?
01:05:58.559 --> 01:05:59.760
Right, and uh and walk away.
01:06:00.159 --> 01:06:04.079
Away from that, or completely I'll flip at the bird and say, Yeah, I'm gonna do it this way.
01:06:04.320 --> 01:06:04.880
Right, right.
01:06:05.039 --> 01:06:09.599
Um what advice would you give to another generation?
01:06:10.400 --> 01:06:13.199
Uh whatever that you whatever we want to call that age group.
01:06:13.280 --> 01:06:15.599
Um I've a son who's 13, right?
01:06:15.679 --> 01:06:19.440
And um and there's young men, 19, 20.
01:06:21.039 --> 01:06:46.320
Being raised up in the fellowship, or maybe just stepping in for the first time and seeing people of passion for what we have, what advice would you give if they want to be shaped, they want God to use them, change them in the culture that we're in, Instagram culture, um, to to set themselves apart in order to be ready and prepared to be shaped here in the local in the local body.
01:06:46.639 --> 01:06:47.039
Right.
01:06:47.280 --> 01:06:47.920
Wow.
01:06:48.639 --> 01:07:05.440
Um I would say to a certain degree, to the younger generation, I would advise them and to admonish them, don't look at who they are, whether they're raised in the fellowship, especially if they're raised in the fellowship, to look at it with a certain level of contempt.
01:07:05.679 --> 01:07:16.000
It's very easy to do and miss that there are guardrails that have been put up in our fellowship that actually protect you.
01:07:16.400 --> 01:07:27.119
That you enjoy the safety of coming to church and who we are because there are people who have actually laid down their life to guard this stuff.
01:07:27.280 --> 01:07:31.599
Um, and once again, prayer meetings and and and things like that.
01:07:31.840 --> 01:07:35.039
At one time I didn't understand it, but the older I'm getting, I understand it.
01:07:35.119 --> 01:07:43.440
So I'm telling the younger generation, there's certain things that need to never change.
01:07:43.760 --> 01:07:46.639
So, yeah, you can have some different ideas, okay.
01:07:47.599 --> 01:07:59.679
But the concept of prayer meeting and evangelism and church planting and and world evangelism, those are things that should never change, and they're the very thing that has protected us.
01:07:59.760 --> 01:08:02.239
It's the thing that we come in and we enjoy.
01:08:02.719 --> 01:08:04.480
We enjoy that environment.
01:08:04.639 --> 01:08:08.880
And I can only think back when I was just a young 21-year-old in Chandler.
01:08:10.079 --> 01:08:23.359
The the the what the safety that I felt there was not because of one person, it was because there was a group of people who bought into it and said, this is worth me giving my life for.
01:08:24.319 --> 01:08:26.079
And I felt safe there.
01:08:26.640 --> 01:08:30.159
And I would say to the younger generation, don't ever lose that.
01:08:30.239 --> 01:08:33.520
Don't ever go online and watch someone.
01:08:34.479 --> 01:08:39.520
Because I find a lot of people that are online, they actually don't even really have a church.
01:08:39.600 --> 01:08:43.279
A lot of these YouTuber guys, whatever, they don't believe in the local church.
01:08:43.359 --> 01:08:45.359
They have no concept of the local church.
01:08:45.439 --> 01:08:48.079
Um, so I don't even listen to those guys at all.
01:08:48.239 --> 01:08:56.560
Or you look at a church that seems super dynamic, um, which they may be, they may be super dynamic.
01:08:56.800 --> 01:09:07.840
But is the moment that you start giving get getting into the comparative thing, that, oh, I wish my church would do that, it doesn't mean that you can't have nuance to certain things.
01:09:08.239 --> 01:09:12.239
But I'm glad that God saved me where he saved me.
01:09:12.640 --> 01:09:19.600
I'm glad he put me where he put me because I needed a safe environment like that.
01:09:19.840 --> 01:09:28.239
So I would challenge young people to before you remove a fence post, you need to ask yourself why it was put there in the first place.
01:09:28.319 --> 01:09:28.640
Yeah.
01:09:29.039 --> 01:09:32.239
Before you step and say, Oh, you know something, we don't need to do that anymore.
01:09:32.399 --> 01:09:35.520
You need to ask yourself exactly why was that put there?
01:09:35.680 --> 01:09:48.960
You'll find that if you dig deep and you ask the right questions, you'll find out that was actually put there not to control you, but actually a place of safety for you, a place of refuge for you.
01:09:49.199 --> 01:09:56.880
Young people, I just want you guys to know, you know, I'm not trying to run your life, and most pastors don't have the energy to try to run your life.
01:09:57.119 --> 01:10:08.880
We actually want to keep you safe, and we want to protect things that we can have something that we can hand down to you and hand to you, and hopefully when you get it, you'll be somebody that understands.
01:10:08.960 --> 01:10:12.640
It was never something, at least for me, that I tried to control people.
01:10:12.800 --> 01:10:18.319
It's the very thing that was given to me that kept me safe for the last 38 years.
01:10:18.479 --> 01:10:20.159
And so that's wonderful.
01:10:20.319 --> 01:10:20.800
Very good.
01:10:20.880 --> 01:10:21.279
Thank you.
01:10:21.520 --> 01:10:21.840
Thank you.
01:10:22.079 --> 01:10:24.000
And we're unfortunately at time.
01:10:24.159 --> 01:10:32.720
I would love to keep going, but uh, I know there's other commitments and whatnot, but man, uh very, very privileged to have the conversation.
01:10:32.960 --> 01:10:35.439
Thanks so much for having me, thank you.
01:10:35.520 --> 01:10:35.920
I appreciate it.
01:10:36.000 --> 01:10:36.399
God bless you.
01:10:36.960 --> 01:10:37.439
God bless you.
01:10:37.600 --> 01:10:38.399
Thank you.
01:10:40.079 --> 01:10:41.920
The day is coming, friend.
01:10:42.560 --> 01:10:51.760
The day is coming when you'll give an account of your life now, everything you've done, whether it be good or whether it be bad, and the only thing that'll matter is do you know Jesus Christ?
01:10:52.319 --> 01:10:56.880
And I remember there was a time in my life when I said, Well, I believe in God.
01:10:57.119 --> 01:11:03.279
I know there's a God, but you know, even the demons know that there's a God, and they tremble, even they know.
01:11:04.239 --> 01:11:06.079
But are you born again?
01:11:06.399 --> 01:11:10.159
Have you accepted Jesus Christ in your life to be your Lord and Savior?
01:11:10.399 --> 01:11:18.399
Are you just a religious fanatic who goes to church on Christmas and Easter, and that's as much as you know God, not a head knowledge, but a heart knowledge.
01:11:18.960 --> 01:11:22.640
We do hope that you enjoyed that episode of Pattern Principle Podcast.
01:11:22.800 --> 01:11:26.960
And just before you go, I do want to extend one more invitation to you.
01:11:27.199 --> 01:11:44.880
That is, if you don't know Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior personally, if you're not washed in the blood of Jesus Christ who came some 2,000 years ago, and he lived as a man, fully man, fully God, and he died on a cross and he rose again, so that you could know him personally.
01:11:45.359 --> 01:11:48.640
So that you could lay down your burdens and your hurt.
01:11:49.039 --> 01:11:52.319
And God could take that, he could transform it into something completely new.
01:11:52.479 --> 01:11:56.800
If you don't know that Jesus, I want to invite you to meet him personally today.
01:11:56.960 --> 01:11:58.880
I'm gonna lead you in a prayer.
01:11:59.279 --> 01:12:04.960
And this prayer is just words, but these words they have a meaning when they're coupled with surrender.
01:12:05.039 --> 01:12:09.279
And we're gonna pray for Jesus Christ to come into your heart.
01:12:09.520 --> 01:12:19.039
If you want that, if you want to know Jesus Christ personally, to lay down your burdens, your hurts, your angst, to be given a new life.
01:12:19.279 --> 01:12:20.800
I want you to stop whatever you're doing.
01:12:20.960 --> 01:12:22.079
I want you to repeat after me.
01:12:22.319 --> 01:12:23.520
We're gonna pray.
01:12:24.159 --> 01:12:28.319
I want you to say, Jesus, I repent of my sin.
01:12:28.960 --> 01:12:35.520
I ask you to come into my heart, forgive me, make me a new creation.
01:12:36.159 --> 01:12:39.840
Thank you for the blood you shed on Calvary's cross.
01:12:40.319 --> 01:12:41.279
Change me.
01:12:41.760 --> 01:12:43.439
I give you my life.
01:12:43.680 --> 01:12:45.359
In Jesus' name.
01:12:45.680 --> 01:12:46.319
Amen.
01:12:46.880 --> 01:12:50.399
My friend, if you said those words, you meant it in your heart.
01:12:50.800 --> 01:13:01.039
Next best thing that you can do is to connect with a body of believers, those that are going to strengthen you, those that are gonna lift you up and help you in your your brand new journey.
01:13:01.199 --> 01:13:06.399
I want to encourage you to reach out to us at connect at pattern principlepodcast.com.
01:13:06.560 --> 01:13:17.039
We'll get you in touch with a body of believers nearby you, and hopefully uh we can hear the testimonies of what God's doing in your life as God begins to change and transform who you are.
01:13:17.359 --> 01:13:17.920
Thank you.
01:13:18.079 --> 01:13:20.960
If you did pray, thank you for the opportunity to pray with you.
01:13:21.039 --> 01:13:22.239
We'd love to get to know you.
01:13:22.399 --> 01:13:23.439
Please reach out.
01:13:23.760 --> 01:13:31.680
God bless you.