Overthinking Mostly "The Old Guard 2"

Crysda: Hello and welcome to Overthinking It on Purpose. I am your host, Crysda and this is my co-host and sister, Kira. Hello. So just note, we are both getting over being sick, so we might sound a little wonky today. but we're gonna overthink some stuff anyways. we're gonna start with The Old Guard 2. this movie came out in 2025. The writer is Greg Rucca, Sarah L. Walker and Leandro Fernandez. Director was Victoria Mahoney. Notable actors Charlise Therone, Kiki Lane and Uma Thurman. summary, Andy leads immortal warriors against a powerful enemy threatening their group. They grapple with the resurfacing of a long lost immortal, complicating their mission to safeguard humanity. actually one of the better ones. That's one of the better ones. I like, that's not too bad. so I think we did this when we talked about Ready or Not Two. but what'd you think about the world building in the sequel? Honestly I didn't think there was much to it. like they established enough in the first one. and like this is one where I do kinda wish I did know the comics. I've tried to read the comics, I don't like the art style and so like the art style is confusing for me to read. and so just I couldn't. so I don't know how much the movie's building up on itself to introduce the concept of like, you know, the actual first and last immortal and how much is or like how much is movie versus comic. like 'cause all all I know is about about the comic is that, you know, Quinn coming back is a major point of the comics, but I don't know anything about the Including inclusion of Uma Thurman's character, which I'm spacing on her name. Discord. Thank you. I knew it was something not actually a name. Yeah. Also because I've been on Discord community servers for such a long time, the entire time she was calling herself Discord, I was just like, I'm not impressed at all. Like And they were like, sounds ominous and I'm like, not really. Not anymore. Not anymore. Discord servers has stripped you of your intensity name wise. maybe pick a different one? Maybe. I don't know. That one's not working for you anymore. I don't know like you said, neither of us have read the comics, so we're not a hundred percent sure on, you know, world building comparison. Well, here is a thing that it has to be movie specific because I do remember after the first one came out, reading that a huge difference between the movie and the comic was that in the comic Andy did not lose her immortality. So it has to be something unique to the movies. Yeah. so which I'm all for, like, you know, I like when it comes to adaptations, there has to be a reason for the adaptation to exist rather than just bringing it to a different kind of audience by being a different media type. and so like I appreciate to some extent like core details have to be there. like this is why I have such an issue with the new resident evil coming out. is that Zach Cregger admitted that he is not pulling from even the lore of the Resident Evil games and they're still calling it an adaptation. I don't care that it's not following familiar characters. Hey, have some new characters, that'll be fun. I'm frustrated 'cause we haven't gotten good adaptations of those characters yet. but yeah with this, because they're keeping a lot of the core details, like it's a whole bunch of immortals that have essentially fought evil through time. Yeah. that that is the same and a lot of the the characters are the same. that it's not look what you just got yourself into. She has a parrot cat. I have a cat who thinks he's a parrot. but because they carried over some key details, it's still a good adaptation. Yeah. And so them kinda having fun and expanding out of having a way for them to get rid of their mortality and kind of control it, I do think that's an interesting idea and a way to kind of separate the movies from the comics. I also really like that Rucca, the writer of the comics, has been involved in both the first and the second. Yeah, I've heard another creator or like writer talk about how sometimes getting to write your story over again can be a lot of fun. Like, I never thought of doing it this way. this is something that I wrote in my own fanfiction. Like I love a good like I think that most writers probably write fanfic of their own stories whether they adhere to it or not. Here's an old reference not that old Kira but the author, and artist of the manga for gravitation, Makimirokami, they actually write and publish fan series for gravitation there is a specific word for manga fanfiction Dojinchi maybe? Anyway, they're allowed, because of copyright laws being different in Japan. But they do legitimately write their own fan fiction to their own work 'cause say this is not canon compliant, this is me having fun. Yeah, I've literally done that myself. So I wrote fan fiction for my own stuff. So like why the heck not? I mean it doesn't matter. so I just I really like that like a writer of the original comic book series can go into an adaptation and be like, hey, you wanna do something different than the comic books? Yeah. and I also think that that is a way to like like you said, like the comic books are slightly different. They're you know, the storyline is a little bit different, but also it's a comic book. You're talking about something that's gonna be different, period. I don't really like reading comics Yeah. it's not my go to. The closest I get is manga sometimes and even then I don't really partake. and that's the funny thing is that it is actually because I spent so many years reading manga that that's the reason I have problems with the art style of this comic and most comics. Yeah. is because it's like I'm so used to how clean Even an action manga is. Like something like Full Metal Alchemist or Naruto. like the mangas of the those are very action heavy mangas, but they're very clean and it's very easy to to kind of follow the what's happening. I don't I lose track like it I trained my brain to like to not be able to really follow the kind or like how the art style follows action and stuff like that in comics. And so it's like I messed myself up on that regard. Yeah, I was never super into comics Right. I mean I grew up on Anne McCaffrey and, you know. Fantasy sci fi full ass books. Yeah. Real fucking long. And as much as I've got a really good point. It's like they're so short. I there were many a times when I would be reading like a manga series and be like, mm, that's it. That's that really? That's it? I paid fifteen bucks for this for one part of a ten part series and like three things happened. Like, okay. I mean I guess this works for some people. and I appreciate that. I do appreciate that that a lot of people love comics. It is incredibly beloved for a lot of good reasons. it's just not necessarily my forte. Yep. And so I never even tried to get into the comics. Like us now, like for fan fiction reading dabbles. Yeah, exactly. but yeah, so I appreciate that and to be fair, in a lot of ways, a movie when you compare it to books or TV shows, it's a shorter media, That's why I will always stand by that movies are not the way to adapt video games. yeah, totally. you just lose too much in the adaptation. Yep. but yeah, so I appreciate that he was involved. That was the whole point of that. and I didn't put it in here, but I'm gonna say it anyways. That one thing that does bother me is that they could have just added discord and the gender parity of the immortals would still be mostly men. to the woman ratio, but then they added Tua as well. And I'm like, God damn it. Like, yeah. Like, come on, guys. Like we were already like three to two in the first one. Right? Are you counting Quinn? Well okay, yeah. So count not counting Quinn in the first one. We're just doing three to two. Two two. And then in the second one it's two women and one men or and then Okay, so yeah, so the gender parity is a lot better. it's probably because like and discord are on the opposite side. Yeah, but and I don't know, or like are you kinda also counting Copley? So that's the other thing, because Copley's not an an immortal, but neither is Andy for a good chunk of the second movie. So he's part of the team. So he's a main part of the team. So you're you did also add another man. Right. Even though he's not an immortal. he's there. And he's obviously an important part of the team. They took him on missions. Bro, I don't think that man should go on missions. But I do love that it shows on missions. At the same time it might have been like, you know, 'cause it what is like about six months later or something like that. it might have been the fact that they gave up fighting him going on missions a hundred percent. He absolutely stowed away and just went on missions anyway, and this is them accepting their fate of he's gonna come whether we want him to or not. I also think like honestly he can take care he can do a lot better than I would have expected from somebody who's like an intel. Yeah, and I also think it's funny that they left him with Andy and I think it's kind of like a reminder that she's not immortal to leave her with the mortal. I just think that's kind of funny. Yep. but having him in there as well kind of threw off the gender parity of the main teams. but yeah, also having the two main antagonists be women also bothers me. Just because, you know, we o it just it just seems like they're like You know what would be great? Let's add more women to this film. You know what we we should do, right? We should make bad guys. And I was just like, every time why every time? I If it was I don't like it hit me more along the lines of that women are more capable of the emotional depth of these conflicts than men. Because you have like because with Discord it all comes down to the fact that she's mortal now and she wants to keep living. Yeah. And so she's going to extremes to do it. But then with Quinn it's just like she's recovering from trauma. Totally. And she just I don't blame Quinn. No at all. but the but like it just came across of like these are very like these are actually pretty complicated issues that are motivating them. Yeah. And it doesn't come off the same if it's a man trying to do it. Yeah, the like where Teeny Bopper CEO in the first one is You know what? Like this this gets me like it it hits me randomly. did you know that the actor who plays him played Dudley? Yeah. It like how is that b like that kid grew up good. I'll give him that. Like a I love that his suit has a hood on it. Yeah. It's so stupid and so fitting of like some yeah some dumbass got rich real fast in his life. Or it feels that way. I don't know if necessarily that's true. He does say that he's the youngest CEO of f in pharma. Yeah. So w like and that says that like it and there is a way like there is a good implication with that, that he is Like he doesn't come across as it, but because of that, like he is it does say something towards potential intelligence. yeah, decor you know, we kinda don't really see that because he outsourced out to like the CIA guy or two Copley not to mention everybody else. He outsources all of his labor because that's what rich people do rich people do at some point. So, but I don't know, it's just like they would outsource brushing their own damn teeth if they could. Yeah, we don't know that he doesn't. So true. it's also the same reason why I struggle to be angry at Booker, even though I'm supposed to be angry with Booker in the first one. I want to hate him. And there's a part of me that's just like I sort of get it, but he went about it the wrong way. Just a guy who can't cope. Yeah, a hundred percent. What are the things men do, not go to therapy? There's this amazing Tumblr post where they talk about the fact that Booker realizes in the first one that Nile needs someone to convince her of why she shouldn't go back to her mother and brother. And he gives that stupid monologue about watching his son like hate him and everything. and she's just like, What the f what just happened? And People on Tumblr do like the panels of that conversation and at the end it'll just like, nailed it. Like he thinks he did such a great job. He did such a good job. That he and he meant to do. I mean that sucks for you, bro, but I gotta go. I mean, he's not the reason why she chooses not to go back to her family. She's tries to go back to her family. which I think is great. but yeah, I don't know, I have mixed feelings about Booker and Quinn, obviously. Quinn I have an easier time with because she was abandoned and left to drown over and over and over again for what five hundred years? Yeah. Crazy. Which like I have such an issue with anybody, including her, blaming The rest of the immortals. yeah, me too. Just five fucking hundred years ago. Yeah, submarines were not a thing. You get down a few hundred feet and you die and float to the surface and have to start all over again. Yeah, it's that's what that's what was it, Sisyphus? Like you're you're asking for them to be Sisyphus. Yeah, it's interesting because like I think that they handled Quinn's reasons a lot better than they handle Booker's in some ways. Which I think is really fitting. Yeah, exactly. I think that's very fitting, honestly. Like that's the thing, is like if it hadn't been Discord finding her and like immediately getting her literally about to say that. And literally getting her hooks in right off the bat, is like that's the thing, is like she's not She's not inherently antagonistic. No, yeah, and kinda neither is Discord. she's just afraid. Yeah. And I can't remember if we talked about this for Old Guard one. We didn't really talk about Old Guard. I was like, wait, we talked about it like we maybe like fifteen, twenty minutes. but kinda one of those ways of showing that it doesn't really matter how long you're around, you're still just human. Yeah. These stupid human mistakes. Yeah. And I do think that it was a good way for them to like 'cause Discord did not spend all those years and I know that Andy's group didn't spend all that time either, like, you know, doing good. but like there's no reason to believe that Discord spent any of her time actually taking action for the good of anybody. Well they even say in the movie that she spent the next five centuries accumulating wealth. Yeah. That's all she did. Yeah. So and she obviously did it in intermediators. That's not the right word. Intermediaries. because when they found out about the first guy that they went after about the guns in the second movie, they find out that it's because of Discord that she's selling guns or she's buying guns or something. so she did s it's like having shell companies of shell companies of shell companies. It's the only way that she could hide her immortality while she's attaining wealth. Right. Which makes perfect sense, you know. but it is interesting that in some ways Andy and the others they probably have money, obviously, because they have places all over the world, but they didn't accumulate wealth and privilege They they very much like lived on the outskirts of society. and Discord, on the other hand, didn't live in society but just accumulated wealth. and then she only went after Quinn because it was a way to find Andy. That was the only reason she went after Quinn to begin with. Yeah. And it was a way to turn Quinn against Andy and the others. but yeah, I was literally about to say the same thing that I think that if somebody else had found Quinn, she would have been able to work through that instead of Discord, you know, manipulating her. And And of course she also came back like, I hate the humans too. Yeah. because, they did, you know, sink her to the bottom of the ocean. but that was another thing. I think in some ways she could have let that go if it wasn't for Discord. She could have just been like, Anyway, well bad day. Yeah, no, it was very much like you kinda get the vibes that she would have gotten free and spent the next hundred years just not dying Right. just to cope. instead of immediately getting pushed into aggression, into handling it aggressively. when your whole existence for five hundred years is dying over and over and over and over and over again. and only knowing that you're here because of these people. Yeah. that would get imprinted in your brain. Yeah. and so it's there. Yeah. like you get the feeling that she would have just sequestered herself away and dealt with it and this could be potentially bad writing, but like, you know, kind of how quickly it went from like realizing the kind of person that Discord was and that she was being manipulated, to like essentially being okay and like kind of just refocusing. That could be bad writing, but it could also be a little bit more of an indication of the kind of person that she actually is, because we don't really get an idea of who Quinn is. Yeah. And especially because like between this movie and obviously the first one, you only see Quinn through other people's POV. Right. So and then in this one, I thought the flashbacks where Andy tries to kill that last guy it and they're like covered in blood and everything and she's like, Don't do it, you're not this person And which is really interesting to me 'cause I was like a big part of who they are is like killing people. but it's usually for a reason. Yeah, it's it's how she was killing him. And it was interesting because like when she had the bomb near the end of the movie and Quinn is like, Are you gonna tell me this isn't who I am? And Andy was like, I thought that I had to save you and now I realize that we have to make decisions for ourselves. And that was a an interesting thing because if you think about it, does that mean that they both thought that they had to save each other? Because Quinn likely. Yeah, Quinn did the same thing with her. No, like they showed multiple times and I think they out right say it in the second one, that Andy is extremely codependent on and reliant on not being alone. Definitely. so like because she was alone for a very long time. Yeah. And so when her priority is I can't be alone, it does influence her actions. and you see how it has influenced her actions over the centuries. and so and it would change how she treats the other immortals. Yeah. So like, you know, while she absolutely cares about them, she absolutely loves them, that is genuine. But it does mean that how she leads them is inherently flawed. Yeah. And it it is interesting, because once again you kind of see that with Nikki and Joe. when they're chatting outside right before they go I think before they go to the nuclear facility. that once again they mention that We were always together. Like we were there together from the beginning whereas Andy was alone for such a long time before she found Quinn was the first one she found, I think. I believe so. yeah. We're just bouncing all over the place. But hey, we're actually mostly staying on topic. I do wanna talk about fight scenes just because this is an action movie and the fight scenes are a big part of it. like the first fight scene I thought was really funny. They're having a good time. Yeah, no, it's like it was very much like I do think that the first fight scene from the first movie is fucking iconic. I love that scene. it is definite it is absolutely one of my favorite action scenes in a movie, period. because it was a fantastic build up to the revelation that these people aren't gonna die. Yeah. and then the rest are good action scenes and also it's a whole bunch of sharp and shinys and I'm a fan of sharp and shinys. you can't argue with the sharp and shinys. and so the fact that we already know it's not a surprise or anything like that. And so I thought it was a nice way for them to have fun. Yeah. and kinda show off like this is things kinda going really well for them and the implications of like what they're going after isn't like child trafficking and so like they're treating it differently and so like and there just feels like a little bit like I don't wanna put it all on Booker, but like And when Booker's around they're all gloomy gusses. When it's Nile, they have fun at their job. I do think that there is an aspect of fun with having a new person with you. Like it's when you get new blood, so to speak. and Nile is younger. she's only been an immortal for six months or so. and she's different than them. Like she's obviously different than them. And the the most recent before Nile was Booker, right? Yes. Okay. and Nile came to them without as much baggage as Booker came to them. Booker came to them pretty baggaged. Yeah. also he's French, I think about that. They're playing a little bit too hard into some stereotypes there. Stereotype like what was he? like from the the French Revolution? Yeah. Or like was it Napoleon's Napoleon? Something about Napoleon? I suck at history. if it's not Hamilton I don't remember. I think it was Napoleon's time that he came in. and so just like some you know, not great stuff. yeah not yeah but you know like then also you have Joe and Nikki that they were in the fucking crusades. Yeah and killing each other. Yeah, literally killed each other. And I just there's something really sweet to me about Nile Maybe inviting them to be silly and fun. Yeah. I like that idea. and there is also that aspect that Andy is so done existing in the first one. Yeah. and now like she feels alive again and she's happy with being alive. Yeah. And she wasn't. Like that's kinda the whole point of the first one. it's kinda you know, it's that irony of it that now that she does have an expiration date, like she's okay to be alive. She's happy being alive. And so like so that's also another aspect of it is the different mindset that Andy is in. and it's a good representation, of how things are different, like kind of across the board. I think it also echoes back to the mentor mentee relationship of Nile and Andy. And there's especially with Nile refusing to let Andy meet with Quinn alone, to me it felt like she was like, No, I care about you, I'm going with you like Nile and Andy having multiple like quiet moments together during the movie. It obviously is very representative of the first movie I appreciate that that continued in the second one. That like time together has benefited both of them in that relationship. And obviously, you really get to see that Nile has become a part of this family, which is what she was promised in the first one, that, you know, me and those guys will do anything to protect you and you'll do the same, you know? And so it was those first couple of scenes, like the fight scene, like with whatever that guy's name was, Conrad with a K, I think. And then the drinking scene right after was really like companionship and fellowship together, which I really enjoyed. it still felt very much like the scene in the first one before they go on the first mission of the first movie, where you see that companionship and that love that they share for each other. but it's a little different because obviously new people are there. So Nile is there, but Copley is also there, which I really like. the addition of Copley to the Yeah, I like how involved he is. That like 'cause I I was very much expecting him to like just not be involved anymore. like in the second one just purely I thought he was gonna be a phone call or a text message. Right. Yeah, like that's close to what I was expecting. Yeah. I got an email from Copley. And so, you know, to have him just thoroughly embedded in and like in that they obviously all respect each other. And so like I really liked that that dynamic. Yeah. I thought I thought it was really a fun way to fill out the group and obviously we feel the in that first scene, you know, you kind of feel the the sadness that Booker's not there with the funny story about the canon. but at the same time obviously Joe is still talking to him. which I do think is funny. I think we've talked about so much like 'cause I yeah, and I like fan fictions and stuff that I was writing as like he's absolutely the kind of like 'cause he is very much a heart driven character. Like he is an artist, that's why he's one of my favorites is because he is a creative person and very much leads with his heart. and and so I was like, he's absolutely gonna not last a week before he's talking to Booker again. I was like, Fuck yeah, called it Called it. It I do think it's great because Nikki he didn't feel like he was as angry as Joe was in the first movie, but he's the one who's like really holding on to Like yeah, no, like he is actually like he is very stoic about things. Like he's actually a lot more reserved. Yeah. and and so, you know, it's like he like you get the feeling that if something didn't happen, he would have been mad at Booker longer than the hundred years. He would he was gonna hold his grudge for a very long time if there wasn't anything extra to like help kind of push it aside. Yeah, it's definitely an interesting dynamic. and I really love that Nikki and Joe are similar in some ways and very different in others because it's very realistic when it comes to actual healthy dynamics of relationships. Yeah. Which too often in action as a genre, really any genre, but action as a genre is pretty well known for the shitty dynamics of really unhealthy relationships. And so it's nice to see one that's like genuinely healthy and kind. and they're silly together. the car, the driving and the the like the drunken, like you're gonna snore like a boar and you know, like you just see how together they are. Yeah. And it's so it's so obvious that they're together and that they love each other even millennia later. Like and you know that they worked to get there. Yeah. And like that's the thing is like you can see because there's like the you know there's ultimately the you know they're in disagreement yeah like throughout half the movie. like you know you can kind of see like they they know how to handle conflict between each other because they've put in the work. Yeah. They started on opposite sides of the fucking crusades. They put in work to be where they are. Yeah, you can't get to there without a lot of work. Yeah. and the work is very obvious, I think. Yep. which is nice. it's not always easy to write that. Yeah so I think that they didn't just write it well. I'm gonna give Ruca the benefit of the doubt. especially because they're all bisexuals essentially. so I'm gonna give the benefit of the doubt. And they wrote it into the script and the guys played it very well. Yeah. Like they play it very well. And I appreciate that. so my only note on Quinn and Andy's fight is just kiss already. and I think they should have and it makes me mad that they didn't. I would have been mad if they did. I don't care. Because come on, that would have like that would've been forced as fuck. No, in that scene. Yeah. But at the same time, like any time that like if they'd kissed at all, except in like a flashback or something like that, I would have been pissed because that would've been forced as fuck. And that would've been fan service and that's not the reason to do something. Yeah, I'd I still don't care. No, I like that especially 'cause you see obviously that Andy regains her immortality and then Quinn loses hers and so she ends up taking care of Quinn at the end. I would like if they do make a third one, I really want the movie to end with them all mortal. Mm. I want them all to just have the freedom of being able to die. Like I they can all be alive. like all the ones that are left except Discord, she can go. Like, you know, she's done enough shit. but all the ones that are left to be alive and mortal. So that they can die naturally. I don't know about just di they they can just live out the rest of their days, like just existing and being happy. And and then coming to the end of their life. I don't know if I care about Tua either, honestly, just because he was invited it. They didn't like they introduced yeah, you know, like they didn't they didn't give him nearly enough of a chance to really kinda get a feel for him. Yeah, he came in just with his library and like, this is all I'm good for, guys. here's my library. and I like I don't know, I appreciate the introduction of more immortals. but at the same time I was like I don't know. I thought it was like if nothing else, I thought it was a good representation of showing manipulation of their abilities, the abilities that they have that you know, that he was able to use never meeting them to keep a history of them. Mm-hmm. I did like that. I really liked that. that that's how he used his time was it is interesting that they didn't notice that they were dreaming about him. it is I think a loophole of like that they're not over explaining abilities. Yeah. Is l like because they don't address that like they don't really go into a lot of the d the the details of stuff. Or like they kind of delved a little bit more like, Hey, if they lose a limb, how does that heal and stuff like that? And you know, they answered that. like there's kinda the implication that because like they don't say how recently they figured out that they were dreaming about other immortals. Mm-hmm. 'Cause there's also so few of them that like, you know, they're using gaps in knowledge to get away with stuff. but because like, you know, there's kind of the implication that because Discord and Tua were there when Quinn was Iron Maidened up, that, you know, that's potentially why they didn't dream about them or something they they didn't know about them because officially they'd met. Or whether it's a two way street or something like that, of like, hey, I can meet you but you haven't officially met me so I can still dream about you but you won't dream about me. and honestly it's like if Tua spends all of his time just in the library yeah. Like he's not dying over and over again. And I could imagine it like and I can like spin that the impression of somebody dying over and over and over again overpowers like dreaming about somebody else. And so it's like and they don't say like how strong it is past that first one that, you know, of when Nile first woke up, or like first healed and became immortal. it doesn't say like how impressionable it is and somebody sitting in a library is really boring. Yeah, it I don't know, it's it to me it's like I think if they'd made less of a deal about it in the first movie, it it would have felt less like a plot hole to me in the second one. but that's just me. because I did make a big deal about it in the f in the first one. and so I was like, wait okay, whatever. so yeah, like I appreciated and Discord isn't immortal anymore, so why would they dream about her? It depends on how long she's been mortal. 'Cause w again, we don't know. Exactly. So she could have not been mortal for years. Yeah. then why is Nile dreaming about her? she dreamt about the library. She dreamt about Discord. She dreamt but just it was when Discord was at the library around Tua. Mm-hmm. So yeah, so I like I just figured it's like she's been immortal for potentially years. and if she's just going around like amassing wealth, it's just like another thing of like it's not a big deal. There's not a lot happening and so like it's just at a point we're like, it's not murder and mayhem you know, 'cause we live very violent lives and they absolutely don't dream well like normally. Yeah. And so it's like, nobody's dying today. It's a good night's sleep. Yeah, fair. I don't know. It's for me it feels like a plot hole. And it's probably just because I love deeper world building than that. And I'm also like for me, like I write so much fantasy that I think about powers all the time. Yeah. And so if you're gonna make a big deal about it in the first one, then you're gonna be like, by the way, it's fallible and I'm like, but wait, you made a big deal about it in the first one. it just makes it feel like a plot hole to me. And like and at the same time it's like because of how much information it ended up relaying, meaning that because it's like without that they would have had no reason to talk about Quinn. And that's the thing. It's like it's not how they find each other, it's how that they learn that there's another immortal. so like it kinda like I don't know if it's just a perception, it's like they heavy loaded it a little too much where it's not as impactful as it really is. Yeah. That's more than possible. But yeah, no, it's like because the fact that like Nile didn't mention about the library until it was in front of her face. So like there's nothing to distinguish it from it being just another dream. So yeah. So it was just like it ended up so yeah, I think it just ended up becoming more impactful than it actually is. Yeah, and for me, like, I don't know, maybe this is because like I've watched too many shows or movies where you're like, this is my ability, but also I can do this. But also I can do this. Yeah, you can develop stuff as the plot requires. and I'm like, that's not even a banshee. Like Hmm, I wonder what you're talking about. And that I mean, it doesn't help that it's literally on my screen right now. like And I understand that it's all fiction, but we're here to overthink fiction, so I think it's fair. I spend so much of my time because I write in like fantasy universes I think about the rules and laws of magic. That's all I fucking do. This is me thinking figuring out trying to figure out the rules of something that hasn't been explained sufficiently. I hate it so much. Explain your goddamn rules. Stop living in the corners of your ignorance for the sake of drama and for the sake of your storylines. Set up the rules of your thing in advance to or well, like I can't say that. Because of how much like I I write so much on the fly and make th things up as I go, but I also care and pay attention. It's like, I wrote this previously. and so I can't contradict that. Or there needs to be a fucking good reason for me to supposedly contradict this, and I better be able to explain it. Yeah. And like something as simple as in like one of my stories, I like early on, because I, you know, wrote it over course of months and I have horrible memory. And so I was like, he looked at pictures. This character looked at pictures and could say this because of his ability. And then months later I say that he couldn't look at a picture and and realize that. And then it's like, no, I retraced it. Like this happened. And so like he almost died because of this event. And because of that, his ability to see things through pictures was affected and he never recovered it. And so it's like, that was not intended, but it works. That's not retconning that is actually using what I created and still maintaining rules. So like I'm not fucking JK rolling on that bullshit. I've literally had someone tell me in my first Gate to Vonus story. Sorry, that's a fanfiction. where they were like, I thought you wrote yourself into a corner and then you like just jumped out of it and I was like, I mean, that's how you write good and shit. so I don't know. I understand that again we're talking about movies that are based on comic books and and based on much longer, greater stories. And it's not always an ideal situation. Yeah. Or it's like In the mummy, he was wearing that thingy on his wrist. Yeah. And come to find out it was hiding. Yeah, there was a tattoo under it. Like plot relevant. Plot relevant. Suddenly plot relevant. like I'm okay with that stuff, but like sometimes when you're talking about superpowers or when you're talking about like abilities, like when people are hiding in the corners of ignorance for the sake of your ability structure, that really does bother me. Yes. and I have re watched the old guard two like six times in the past two weeks. So I think it's just more like really in my brain right now. and that's like that's kind of the funny thing. It's like I figure that that's part of the reason why I haven't like I wrote the Whumptober that I did before the second one came out. So I was like, I don't know if I can actually write anything post Old Guard Two. not only because of where the story left and like where what they did with it, but it's just like I don't know if I can actually write I could I could write A U But like not really anything like in world anymore. Yeah. I feel the same way. I wrote one where Styles became an immortal. And I'm like, well, there goes that. That will just exist in Canon one and not Canon like two. And I was like, okay, that is that's what it is. That's how it is. That's that's how it is sometimes. you know, and that's what happens when you have a canon that becomes bigger by a sequel, is you're like, Got it. My bad. I wasn't planning for that. I I didn't plan for that, so that happens. Happens to all of us, I think, sometimes. but yeah, I also wanted to touch on I think that it was interesting having Andy and Quinn fight and then Discord and Andy fight. and I thought that those were really interesting like as soon as it like, you know, Discord came out and she was getting ready to fight us like, they are banking on Kill Bill right now. yeah, for sure. Like they're that's the only reason they have her weapon be a katana. Yeah. Is because they're leaning into Kill Bill. which cool. Like I'm not actually complaining. You know, it's like I think it was the third John Wick where they leaned hard into Matrix references because not only is Lawrence Fishburn in it, like very small role. but still it's Lawrence Fishburne and Keanu Reeves in the movie again. Yeah together. And So like then like towards the end before the like the whole big confrontation or whatever and John Wick's characters says guns, lots of guns. It's like You guys are having fun. You guys are having a good time. I like that for you. And so you know that's exactly what they were doing. with Discord using a katana for her weapon. Yeah. I really felt this way when one of the Terminator I think it was Dark Fate. and I know that a lot of the later Terminator movies have a lot of like you know, thumbs down. They're not good. They're not good. I personally can't be bothered to care about that when it comes to Dark Fate because I like Dark Fate. Because it's Linda Hamilton. Yeah. So it's Linda Hamilton being a badass. Yep. and at the time I remember that a lot of people were talking about how like Linda Hamilton was back and crap, I'm gonna forget her name. Jamie Lee Curtis was back in the new Halloween and there was a couple of these movies that were coming out and they're like, my gosh, these older women can just be badasses. And they don't all have to play witches. Like Meryl Streep was offered when she was forty. that's a thing that's coming out since Marissa Tomei being cast as Aunt May in the Spider Man movies And people like, this is a thirty something year old getting cast as Peter's aunt and just like, no, she's in her fifties. I was like thirties. Yeah, no, like but it's just like because she looks really good that she does look really good. and like so she like she got stuck in people's brains at what's the The law movie, with Joe Pesci. My cousin Vinny? My cousin Vinny, thank you. and so like 'cause that's that's where she was actually in her thirties. And so like that got stuck and she like barely aged since then. Not aging at all. And I think in the the new one that just came out, they actually like showed her full tombstone. which included the year and so she was like sixty one when she died and people were like, what are you saying? Like trying to pull that a sixty year old wasn't like, you know, played by an actor in her thirties and they look up Marissa Tomey's age and she is currently sixty one. So I was like sure she was like fifty nine when the movie she died in was made. It was just like Yeah, Like people are aging better than they ever have before. And just stop being ageist. Well and and that's another thing, right? Is that because of years of stigma and lies. Stigma, ageist Things like that, but also having teenagers be played by grown ass people. John Travolta in Greece. He was like in his fucking thirties when he played. Even I mean it's crazy because Tyler Hecklin in Teen Wolf, he was actually the youngest person on the cast, but he was playing the oldest person. isn't Dylan younger than him? as far as I've seen from like posts and things like that, so I haven't checked everybody's birthdays. Right. As far as I've seen, Tyler Hecklin is the youngest person on the cast. Well, I'm mixing fandoms. Okay. I was for some reason I was thinking Glee. For Tyler Hecklin. No, that's the weird part. I was thinking Glee and The guy who plays Kurt, I immediately forgot his name. Yeah, no, like and that he was a like he was actually the only teenager on set. Like cause he was like sixteen or seventeen when they started. Yeah. Like and so It reminds me of I don't know why I was thinking that and like the pff it's the whole styles and Kurt are related. Yeah. my brain really went the extra mile on mixing up Dylan O'Brien and Chris Colfer. I'm sick. Okay, I was like, wait, I was so talking about Tyler Hecklin. What's happening right now? isn't Dylan younger. That's hilarious. but yeah, he played he played the oldest character. I mean depends on which birthday you think is right. Yeah, I was like I was about to say by which age. By which birthday. By which age. I genuinely think that Jeff my god, we could talk about Teen Wolf forever. and not talk about the old guard which We've now done again. We're doing fantastic. We actually have done a great job. Hope you guys are still here for this. there's this movie called Thirteen. It had Evan Rachel Woods and Nikki I can't remember her name, but she played in Twilight. but they were both under eighteen and so they had laws in place. You can only work for five hours, you have to take a lunch, yep, and this, that, and the other. Like there were protections in place for teenagers. And so, like, thinking about that, and that movie came out much later than some of these movies that we're talking about. And so if you think about it, I wonder if like there were like actual child labor laws and so they were like, Well, we'll just make 30 year olds, teenagers, so we don't have to deal with child labor laws. Yeah. which makes sense. It it was definitely easier, like we were, you know, talking about Terminator earlier, but like even When T two was made in the early nineties, they had to or like like watching like director commentary and stuff like that, they're like pointing out all the times where it wasn't Edward Furlong, it was this stunt double. Yeah. and they're having to film at night like you know, it's like at the end and stuff like that, and so it's just like stuff that they had to do because of laws already in place, to have a child on set. Yeah, and I do think that obviously we need child labor laws to protect children, especially in such a a dangerous field. I mean we've seen too many things come out like with the Nickelodeon kids and the Disney kids about abuse that's happening. I also think we should protect adults too. That'd be great. And I do think that that's getting better, thankfully. but it is interesting that that like when you think about it, like, because of all these other things, in a lot of ways are I mean it's not just that we're aging better, it's that the media affects us so much that it's making it harder for us to to like see or experience age in a realistic way. Yeah. Because you either see like younger people portraying older people or you see y older people portraying younger people and it ends up being very confusing. And so what I was trying to say with Uma Thurman is that I appreciate her coming in as Discord and being that older woman again. She's not So old that she can't do these awesome things. And she is kind of portrayed as a little I mean, she looks the same age as Charlize Theron. I have no idea what their ages actually are. Probably pretty similar. Probably pretty similar. So it's like just thinking kind of back on their filmography so it's like I'm pretty sure they're like right in the same age bracket. And I actually appreciate that they made Uma Thurman look a little older. Like she looked like bedraggled. and that, especially like, you know, she rich, so she has every reason to like still look fine, to look younger than she actually is, but she doesn't. And so that's part of the reason why I think that she's actually been mortal for a long time. That's a good point. And it probably even with money, it probably still took time to well, we realize that she couldn't find Andy, so she brought Quinn out of the ocean, which would have taken time. So even though we know that the the time frame of the second movie happened six months after the time frame of the first movie doesn't necessarily mean that Discord just started doing these things six months ago. these things are just like lining up time wise for us in a different way than than it it did for Discord. which I think is a good thing to remember. but yeah, we did better than the first one, but what did you think about Booker? I know we mentioned Booker earlier and he he's getting the raw end of the deal on this particular episode. I do think that Matthias does a great job. this is not this is no shade, no tea to any of the actors. They're fantastic. what did you think about him giving up his immortality and dying? Like getting his expiration date. Yeah, He still handled it shittily. He's still shit at making choices. He's so selfish. He's so bad at at actual execution. He's like, look, I got a plan. It doesn't take anyone else into consideration and I don't care. because of your actions where you gave up people you gave them up for experimentation for who knows how long between that happening and now you have done absolutely no growth. You spent the whole time in a bottle. So like you know we got that. We got that. but yeah, like I would have preferred Andy not to get her immortality back. Because like here's the thing. I do think what it is, is it's setting up something will happen that Discord will get her immortality back. I have been terrified since the first movie that either Joe or Nikki that one of them will lose their immortality. And so I'm still very concerned that that's what will happen. Like, you know, because we're scarred by 'bury your gays'. And so like it's still Netflix, no matter who's making it, it's still Netflix. Yeah, no, they have their ups and downs and downs and downs. but yeah, like I've been worried that that's what's gonna happen with them. And so like I'm sorry Tua, but I think they just created a disposable character that it will end up being Tua. partially also because he knows Discord. Yeah. I like 'cause him and Discord were together like for a long time. When yeah, like when they watched Quinn get put in the ocean. like they were already together. And he said that they traveled together for a long time. And so I like, you know, I do think that they created a disposable character with that. But ultimately what it did I didn't like that Andy got her immortality back. That's what I was saying. And it set it up to mean that like the only way this fight makes sense is for them to both be on equal ground. Yeah. And that's only gonna happen if they're both mortal. Yeah. if they are both immortal then it is just beating your head against the wall for eternity. hey Sisyphus, we're back. I don't know why Sisyphus is on the top of my brain right now. I think I saw a short or something that referenced Sisyphus earlier today and so now it's stuck. And ultimately it meant that Booker died without any actual closure. Like with no growth whatsoever. He just died. Yeah. I don't know. I definitely have mixed feelings about Booker. I don't. I don't really like him. There's something about him to me that's like, Ooh, I wanna be on your side, buddy. Like I wanna be on your side but but that's not going well. like and honestly, all he would have had to done for me to not mind him was Instead of giving up everybody that he just turned himself over to the rich guy and let himself be experimented on for who knows how long. if he just turned himself in and didn't involve them at all, I wouldn't mind him. Yeah. Which again it's it's like selfishness and Yeah. Yeah, so but you know Short sightedness and selfishness. But yeah, I don't really have anything else on this one. last thoughts about Old Guard 2? Please make a third one. Yeah. Please actually finish a fucking story. Would be nice. thank you everybody for listening. big part of this is starting a conversation, so please continue it with us in the comments or a review or with your friends. please share This with others. we're starting out on Spotify and Apple Podcasts, but more to come in the future. And please recommend things for us to overthink. We look forward to sharing more with you in the future. Thank you. Bye. Bye.