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Welcome to Outlaws and Gunslingers. From the Wild West to
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the rise of organized crime during the Prohibition, all the
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way up to today, America has had criminals, gangs, and
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and lawmen in American history. True crime like you've never
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heard it before. Ladies and gentlemen, Here are your hosts,
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Bang and Dang.
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August 22, 1992, an FBI sniper. They watch three people
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run toward a cabin in the mountains of northern Idaho.
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He fired at one of them just before the man
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disappeared through the doorway. That bullet tore through the door,
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struck an unarmed woman in the head, and then continued
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into the man he was aiming at. Inside that cabin,
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there were three kids, an injured family friend, the body
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already of a 14-year-old boy, and now got the body
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of the children's mother, Vicki Weaver. Outside, hundreds of agents,
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they were gathering for what they believed could become a
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deadly siege. Yet, all this just started with Randy Weaver
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selling two sawed-off shotguns to Federal Informant and then failing
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to appear in court. By the time it was over, Vicki,
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her son Sammy, U.S.
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Deputy U.S.
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Marshal William Deegan, they were dead. Randy and Kevin Harris,
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they were facing charges that could put them in prison
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for the rest of their lives. The government's version of
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what happened on that mountain was already beginning to fall apart.
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It sure was.
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Ruby Ridge, it would become one of the most infamous
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standoffs in American history, but the road there began years earlier.
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So when Randy and Vicki Weaver, they decided they wanted
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nothing more to do with the world below.
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You can't do that. Government don't like that. Right. Live
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for yourself.
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What?
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Not depend on us.
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What? Are you insane?
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Well, most of their lives, Randy and Vicki Weaver, looked
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like an ordinary couple. Just from a rural town in Iowa.
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Randy grew up in a small town of, uh, Valissa.
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Played baseball. Attended community college. Enlisted into the Army in 1968.
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He went through special forces training at Fort Bragg. And
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became a Green Beret. Though he was never sent to Vietnam.
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Oh.
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While home on leave in 1970, he reconnected with Vicki Jordanson,
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a farmer's daughter he had known growing up. Vicki, she
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was an excellent student who knew how to cook, sew, knit,
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and handle the kind of work that came with living
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on a farm. Randy left the Army with an honorable
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discharge in 1971. They were married that November. He briefly
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returned to college, at one point thinking about a career.
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With the FBI. That was crazy.
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But the cost became too much. He left school, took
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a well-paying job at a John Deere factory. Vicki, well,
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she worked as a secretary before staying home to raise
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their children.
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They bought a house.
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They attended church every Sunday, probably every Wednesday. Started building
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the kind of life that would not look unusual anywhere
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in Iowa or pretty much all of the United States.
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During the late 1970s, the view of the world began
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to change. The economy was struggling. Farms all across the
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Midwest were under pressure.
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The 70s were rough.
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The Weavers became convinced. that the country was headed somewhere dangerous.
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Religion always been a big part of their lives, but
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it became far more intense after Vicki began reading books
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about biblical prophecy.
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Oh no.
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And the end of the world. She came to believe
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that God, whom the family called Yahweh, was warning her
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about what was coming.
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I mean, he was, maybe not at that time.
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Right.
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She had recurring dreams of her family living safely on
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a mountaintop while the world below fell apart. Randy took
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those warnings seriously. A couple began talking about leaving Iowa altogether,
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getting away from all the cities, raising their children somewhere
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the government and modern society could never reach them. They
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sold many of their belongings, studied how the Amish lived
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without modern conveniences, and they searched for land in the West. 1983,
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found 20 acres, Boundary County, Idaho, a few miles outside
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the small community of Naples, about 30 miles from the
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Canadian border.
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That's far, far away now.
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They're up there.
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Just that little sliver between Washington and Montana.
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Handle type deal.
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They paid $ 5, 000, traded their moving truck as part.
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Of the deal.
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They're never going to need it again. The land sat
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high in the mountains, just as Vicki dreamed. High enough
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at the end of a rough road, too. Covered in
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thick timber, isolated from almost everyone around it. Randy, you
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build a simple cabin. No electricity, no running water, no
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indoor plumbing. To the weavers, it was not temporary escape
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or a hunting camp. It was where they intended to
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raise their family for the rest of their lives, live
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by their own rules, and wait out whatever they believed
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was coming to the world. But the farther they pulled
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away from the ordinary society, the more their beliefs hardened,
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and the mountain that was supposed to protect them slowly
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became a world of its own.
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Life on that mountain, as you might imagine, was hard
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for that part. It was what Randy and Vicki wanted.
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The cabin had no electricity or running water. The road
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became difficult in bad weather. Nearly everything the family needed
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had to be built, grown, hunted, or carried up from town. Vicki,
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she homeschooled Sarah, Sammy, and Rachel, while Randy, he took
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whatever work he could find, including cutting firewood and doing
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odd jobs.
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But still relied on society.
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Money was often tight, but the children later, why do
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you need money? The children, they later remembered plenty of
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good days there. They explored the woods, helped with chores,
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cared for animals, grew up with the kind of freedom
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they couldn't have had in town. Family, they also kept
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guns close by. And that part of Idaho, owning rifles
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and hunting for food was hardly unusual.
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Of course. They were weavers.
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They saw their weapons as protection from more than animals.
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They believed the government might eventually come for people like them.
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And Randy, he taught the children how to shoot and
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carry guns from an early age.
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Damn right.
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Vicki, she was the strongest religious influence in the home.
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She studied the Old Testament, kept journals addressed to Yahweh.
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She came to believe that her family had been chosen
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to survive the destruction ahead. Over time, those beliefs had
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moved into Christian identity, a loose collection of teachings built
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around the false idea that white Europeans were the true
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descendants of biblical Israel.
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Oh, jeez.
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Many followers, they also taught that Jewish people were enemies
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of God and that the races were meant to remain separate.
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Randy and Vicki, they accepted racist and anti-Semitic ideas tied
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to that movement. Randy, he later described himself as a
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racial separatist and said he believed the races should live apart.
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Oh, well.
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The Weavers, though, they were not accused of carrying out
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racial attacks, and Randy was never proven to be a
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formal member of Aryan nations, as people claimed.
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Right.
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He did, however, visit its compound near Hayden Lake and
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attend its annual World Aryan Congress, though.
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Hmm. Right.
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The gathering that drew white supremacists, neo-Nazi survivalists, and hand-in-hand, right?
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Right.
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Anti-government figures from across the country, along with federal agents
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and informants trying to learn what they were planning.
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I mean, I guess it's kind of like Burning Man.
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for the liberals because there's all kinds of different shit
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there yeah but i guess there's some that you want
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that list you just did there is basically the same
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on the burning.
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Man but on the other side right it's crazy randy
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he met people there listen to speakers sometimes discuss his
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hatred of federal government he also argued that white people
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needed a separate homeland although he did not always agree
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with the organizations around him or submit to the leaders
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That made him difficult to place. He was close enough
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to the movement to attract attention, but independent enough that
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even people inside it didn't even consider him one of
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their own. His growing reputation also reached his neighbors. Some
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saw the Weavers as strange, but mostly harmless. Others, they
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described Randy as angry, armed, and capable of violence. A
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better land dispute produced reports that he had threatened public officials,
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claims Randy denied and investigators couldn't support. By the middle
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of the 80s, his name had begun appearing in federal files,
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even though there was not enough evidence to charge him
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with anything. Then, at an Aryan gathering in 1986, Randy
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was introduced to a man calling himself Gus Magasano. Randy,
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he believed he met another gun dealer who shared some
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of his views. But in reality, that man's name was
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actually Kenneth Fadley.
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Fadley?
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Fadley. He was working as a paid informant for the ATF. Bullshit.
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That's borderline.
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They're just entrapping this dude, man.
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That's borderline entrapment, but whatever.
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Just making people do things they wouldn't have ordinarily thought
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of doing.
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Insane.
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Fadely, he had been sent into the Aryan Nation Circle
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to gather information about illegal gun sales. Not specifically build
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a case against Randy Weaver. He used the name Gus Magasano.
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He presented himself as a gun dealer with connections to
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motorcycle gangs, which gave him a reason to ask questions
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about weapons without immediately raising suspicion. He and Randy remained
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in contact after the first meeting. seeing each other at
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later gatherings and occasionally talking about guns, politics, and their
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shared hatred of what Randy called the Zionist group government. Oh,
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the Zionist occupied government.
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Oh, oh.
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By July of 1989, Randy trusted him enough to invite
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him to the cabin for a discussion about forming a
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group that could fight the government if the country collapsed.
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There's your problem right there, bud.
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If that conversation would never happen, I don't think those
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two sawed-offs would have been such a big deal.
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Right.
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The conversation that eventually caused Randy trouble came a few
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months later. Fadley said he needed shotguns that could be
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easily concealed and resold. According to the ATF's version, Randy
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offered to supply sawed-off shotguns and claimed he could get
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four or five of them a week.
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Whoa.
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Randy later told a different story.
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He said Fadley had spent years working on him, repeatedly
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asking for guns and pretending to be desperate for money.
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Randy also claimed that he finally agreed because his own
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family needed cash and because he believed he was helping
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someone he considered a friend. The most important early conversation
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was not even recorded. Fadley later said he had sometimes
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avoided wearing a wire because he was afraid the men
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around him would discover it. That left no recording capable
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of setting up of settling who first suggested cutting the.
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Barrels below the legal limit.
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It doesn't matter, because they're going to take the informant's
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word over the other guy. 24th of October, 1989.
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Two men.
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They met in a park in Sandpoint. But this time,
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Faisley was carrying a small tape recorder and electronic transmitter.
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Randy handed him two sawed-off shotguns. One barrel measured about
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13 inches and the other 12. This is well below
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the federal minimum of 18 inches. Under federal law, a
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shotgun with a barrel that short had to be registered.
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Neither gun was.
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On the recording, Randy said that he cut him off
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himself with a vice and a hacksaw. He could do
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a better job once he had his workshop set up.
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So this is saying that he ain't even doing this shit.
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He just did it.
248
00:11:30.940 --> 00:11:32.899
On a whim to get this guy to get some
249
00:11:32.919 --> 00:11:33.940
money real quick. Wow.
250
00:11:34.299 --> 00:11:38.620
Fadely paid him $ 300 with more money still owed. That
251
00:11:38.659 --> 00:11:41.379
recording gave the ATF evidence that Randy had knowingly made
252
00:11:41.700 --> 00:11:42.639
and possessed.
253
00:11:42.539 --> 00:11:45.960
Two illegal guns. Oh, jeez. But the tape also left
254
00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:48.330
room for an argument. That would follow the case for years.
255
00:11:49.190 --> 00:11:51.929
It did prove Randy delivered the weapons, but it did
256
00:11:51.990 --> 00:11:55.269
not prove whose idea the illegal alterations had been or
257
00:11:55.330 --> 00:11:57.789
how much pressure Fadley had used to get him there.
258
00:11:57.970 --> 00:12:00.409
So, right. We don't know what's that. It could be blackmail.
259
00:12:00.870 --> 00:12:03.070
He said he'd been begging me for fucking six months.
260
00:12:03.110 --> 00:12:03.370
Right.
261
00:12:04.149 --> 00:12:06.870
Fadley, of course, he insisted there was no pressure and
262
00:12:06.889 --> 00:12:09.649
said that Randy volunteered at all. And he said he
263
00:12:09.669 --> 00:12:13.090
can supply even more guns on a regular basis. Whenever
264
00:12:13.149 --> 00:12:17.159
you need, just ask. Randy, of course, he was like, no,
265
00:12:17.210 --> 00:12:19.789
I was pushed into committing a crime that I otherwise
266
00:12:19.809 --> 00:12:20.470
would never commit.
267
00:12:20.529 --> 00:12:20.909
Trust me.
268
00:12:21.889 --> 00:12:24.149
When the Justice Department examined the case years later, his
269
00:12:24.169 --> 00:12:27.669
investigators said the events leading to the sale troubled them.
270
00:12:29.210 --> 00:12:31.480
But they could not conclude that the ATF had coerced
271
00:12:31.500 --> 00:12:32.620
or illegally enticed him.
272
00:12:32.789 --> 00:12:33.500
Of course, they can't.
273
00:12:34.259 --> 00:12:36.799
Randy still agreed to make the guns. He still agreed
274
00:12:36.820 --> 00:12:38.940
to cut them himself. And he still agreed to accept
275
00:12:38.980 --> 00:12:42.200
the money. A month after the sale, Randy confronted Fatally
276
00:12:42.500 --> 00:12:44.220
with a warning that he received that Gus.
277
00:12:45.070 --> 00:12:47.789
Might be a cop. Oh, Fadely, he denied it. He said,
278
00:12:47.809 --> 00:12:48.409
I ain't no cop.
279
00:12:48.830 --> 00:12:51.409
He tried to maintain his cover, but his handler decided
280
00:12:51.429 --> 00:12:53.610
the relationship had become too dangerous and ordered him to
281
00:12:53.629 --> 00:12:54.090
stay away.
282
00:12:54.110 --> 00:12:56.360
And that further proves Randy. Right.
283
00:12:56.620 --> 00:12:58.120
Now I ain't seen him. Yeah.
284
00:12:58.139 --> 00:13:01.820
The ATF now had a recording with him giving them
285
00:13:01.840 --> 00:13:04.820
the guns that were illegal. So they had a solid
286
00:13:04.840 --> 00:13:08.179
case against Randy, but arresting him immediately could expose an
287
00:13:08.240 --> 00:13:11.220
informant who was still useful in a much larger investigation
288
00:13:11.240 --> 00:13:12.769
because it really actually.
289
00:13:13.429 --> 00:13:14.620
They thought this was going to be something big.
290
00:13:14.629 --> 00:13:18.190
They're trying to get the Aryan movement or whatever, all
291
00:13:18.210 --> 00:13:19.299
those fucking people inside of it.
292
00:13:19.570 --> 00:13:23.559
And for this very moment, the evidence went into a file. Randy,
293
00:13:23.600 --> 00:13:25.860
he returned to everyday living on Mountain Life, believing that
294
00:13:25.879 --> 00:13:27.679
he had caught the man before the man caught him.
295
00:13:29.000 --> 00:13:29.759
Little did he know.
296
00:13:30.399 --> 00:13:32.580
That case sat for several months while the old ATF
297
00:13:32.620 --> 00:13:35.090
tried to protect Fadley's identity and finish its work around
298
00:13:35.139 --> 00:13:38.309
Aryan nations. By the spring of 1990, his cover had
299
00:13:38.330 --> 00:13:40.809
already begun to break down, keeping the shotgun sale quiet
300
00:13:40.830 --> 00:13:44.470
and no longer served much purpose. ATF agent Herb Byerly,
301
00:13:44.629 --> 00:13:46.950
he submitted the case to the U.S. Attorney's Office in Boise,
302
00:13:47.350 --> 00:13:48.860
recommended that Randy be prosecuted.
303
00:13:49.860 --> 00:13:50.250
Why?
304
00:13:51.179 --> 00:13:53.279
Before that happened, the agents decided to see whether the
305
00:13:53.320 --> 00:13:55.759
evidence could buy them something more valuable than a gun conviction.
306
00:13:56.679 --> 00:13:58.740
In June, Byerly and another agent, they drove to the
307
00:13:58.759 --> 00:14:01.799
Weaver property looking for Randy. They found old little Sarah
308
00:14:01.840 --> 00:14:03.620
wearing a pistol on her hip and Sammy carrying a
309
00:14:03.620 --> 00:14:07.399
large hunting knife. Randy, he wasn't there. The agents, they
310
00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:10.080
left without identifying themselves, then spotted his truck outside a
311
00:14:10.120 --> 00:14:13.159
motel in Sandpoint. They approached him there, showed him a
312
00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:15.299
photograph of the two shotguns, and said they had recorded
313
00:14:15.340 --> 00:14:18.100
the sale. Randy, he refused to listen to the tape.
314
00:14:18.580 --> 00:14:21.000
Byerly told him that U.S. Attorney's Office knew about the guns,
315
00:14:21.100 --> 00:14:24.460
but that cooperating with the ATF could help him. The agents,
316
00:14:24.500 --> 00:14:26.919
they wanted info about crimes involving people connected to the
317
00:14:26.980 --> 00:14:29.820
Aryan Nations. They said if old Randy helped them, they
318
00:14:29.840 --> 00:14:32.159
would make sure the prosecutor knew about it. Randy, he
319
00:14:32.200 --> 00:14:34.080
understood that they were asking what they were asking and
320
00:14:34.120 --> 00:14:36.570
rejected it. He told him he would not become a snitch.
321
00:14:37.259 --> 00:14:39.269
The agents gave him a telephone number just in case
322
00:14:39.309 --> 00:14:42.039
he changed his mind, but he never called. Randy, he
323
00:14:42.059 --> 00:14:44.840
later saw what happened next as punishment for refusing to cooperate.
324
00:14:44.860 --> 00:14:45.720
Most likely the case.
325
00:14:46.220 --> 00:14:48.679
The Justice Department investigation found no proof that the gun
326
00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:50.659
case had been delayed to pressure him or that the
327
00:14:50.700 --> 00:14:51.720
indictment was retaliation.
328
00:14:51.740 --> 00:14:52.720
Of course, they didn't.
329
00:14:53.360 --> 00:14:56.259
The ATF had already recommended prosecution before asking for his help,
330
00:14:56.759 --> 00:14:58.720
and the U.S. Attorney's Office simply treated the case as
331
00:14:58.759 --> 00:15:02.399
low priority. Still, from Randy's point of view, the sequence
332
00:15:02.460 --> 00:15:05.279
was pretty obvious. The ATF threatened him with charges, asked
333
00:15:05.299 --> 00:15:07.519
him to inform, and prosecuted him when he refused.
334
00:15:07.590 --> 00:15:07.750
Hmm.
335
00:15:08.919 --> 00:15:11.659
December 13, 1990, a federal grand jury indicted him for
336
00:15:11.700 --> 00:15:13.639
making and possessing unregistered firearms.
337
00:15:14.039 --> 00:15:14.679
Son of a bitch.
338
00:15:14.820 --> 00:15:16.899
He wasn't charged with running a gun business or supplying
339
00:15:16.940 --> 00:15:19.720
piles of illegal weapons. That case rested on those measly
340
00:15:19.759 --> 00:15:21.779
two little shotguns sold to Fadley more than a year
341
00:15:21.820 --> 00:15:22.519
and a half earlier.
342
00:15:22.539 --> 00:15:23.899
All right.
343
00:15:24.679 --> 00:15:27.149
Arresting him presented a different problem, though. The ATF believed
344
00:15:27.169 --> 00:15:29.370
that approaching the cabin could lead to a gunfight involving
345
00:15:29.389 --> 00:15:31.870
Vicki and the kids. So agents, they created a way
346
00:15:31.909 --> 00:15:35.799
to catch Randy away from home. January 17, 1991, two
347
00:15:35.860 --> 00:15:38.019
agents parked near the property, raised the hood of their vehicle,
348
00:15:38.039 --> 00:15:39.179
and pretended they had broken down.
349
00:15:39.220 --> 00:15:40.009
The old trick, huh?
350
00:15:40.980 --> 00:15:42.779
When Randy and Vicki came along, they stopped to help.
351
00:15:43.620 --> 00:15:45.730
Sheriff Bruce Whitaker and the Whedon agents moved in and
352
00:15:45.750 --> 00:15:47.889
arrested Randy without anyone firing a single shot.
353
00:15:47.909 --> 00:15:49.389
There you go. Smart move, guys.
354
00:15:49.750 --> 00:15:52.730
He was taken to Coeur d'Alene and brought before a
355
00:15:52.750 --> 00:15:55.549
federal judge the next day because he had no criminal record.
356
00:15:55.730 --> 00:15:58.750
And why are they pursuing this type of case against him?
357
00:15:58.769 --> 00:15:59.690
It doesn't make any sense.
358
00:15:59.710 --> 00:16:00.389
It's just retarded.
359
00:16:01.539 --> 00:16:05.919
He was released on a $ 10, 000 personal reconnaissance bond, meaning
360
00:16:05.960 --> 00:16:07.299
he didn't have to pay up the money unless he
361
00:16:07.320 --> 00:16:11.440
broke the conditions of his release. Even that was explained badly. Randy,
362
00:16:11.480 --> 00:16:13.100
he came away believing that if he lost the case,
363
00:16:13.120 --> 00:16:16.080
the government might take his land. One thing he and
364
00:16:16.100 --> 00:16:19.500
Vicki had built their entire lives around. And what they've
365
00:16:19.519 --> 00:16:27.159
been mourning against. The court appointed Everett Hoffmeister to represent
366
00:16:27.200 --> 00:16:29.039
him and set the trial for February 19th, less than
367
00:16:29.080 --> 00:16:32.059
five weeks away. Randy, he's now back on the mountain,
368
00:16:32.120 --> 00:16:34.490
convinced the ATF had tried to blackmail him into becoming
369
00:16:34.509 --> 00:16:37.509
an informant, while the government expected him to return quietly
370
00:16:37.549 --> 00:16:39.950
and face what still looked like a routine federal gun case.
371
00:16:40.750 --> 00:16:42.909
Then a single wrong date helped turn that case into
372
00:16:42.950 --> 00:16:43.500
something else.
373
00:16:43.669 --> 00:16:44.409
Oh, shit.
374
00:16:47.000 --> 00:16:50.860
The first change, it was small. February 18th, it was
375
00:16:50.879 --> 00:16:54.710
a federal holiday. The court moved Randy's trial from February
376
00:16:54.899 --> 00:16:57.309
19th to February 20th to give everyone more time to travel.
377
00:16:58.299 --> 00:16:59.799
There was a notice that went to the lawyers in
378
00:16:59.820 --> 00:17:04.190
the case, including Everett Hoffmeister, which was Randy's lawyer. But
379
00:17:04.329 --> 00:17:06.829
it was not sent directly to Randy, which doesn't matter.
380
00:17:07.309 --> 00:17:08.190
They can get away with that.
381
00:17:08.690 --> 00:17:10.890
Here is already the first case of incompetence. You guys
382
00:17:10.910 --> 00:17:13.490
don't know when your federal holidays are, buds?
383
00:17:13.539 --> 00:17:13.799
Right.
384
00:17:14.450 --> 00:17:18.339
Hoffmeister had already mailed letters to the Weaver post office
385
00:17:18.380 --> 00:17:20.880
box telling Randy when to appear and asked him to
386
00:17:20.920 --> 00:17:22.619
meet so they could prepare a defense.
387
00:17:23.420 --> 00:17:24.779
Randy wanted nothing to do with him.
388
00:17:25.559 --> 00:17:28.029
He had not chosen Hoffmeister as his attorney. He did
389
00:17:28.049 --> 00:17:30.930
not trust the federal court that appointed him and he
390
00:17:31.170 --> 00:17:34.829
never answered the letters. But at the same time, Randy
391
00:17:34.869 --> 00:17:37.930
was required to contact a probation officer, Carl Richens, as
392
00:17:37.970 --> 00:17:41.250
part of his release. Randy called, but Richens did not
393
00:17:41.309 --> 00:17:43.750
have the case file yet and asked him to leave
394
00:17:43.789 --> 00:17:47.730
contact information. Richens later said that Randy gave him a
395
00:17:47.769 --> 00:17:50.119
mailing address, but no telephone number. Well, you don't have
396
00:17:50.130 --> 00:17:53.779
a telephone number. 7th February, Richens sent Randy a letter
397
00:17:54.019 --> 00:17:56.450
asking him to get in touch. In that letter, he
398
00:17:56.490 --> 00:17:59.759
gave the trial date as March 20th, exactly one month
399
00:17:59.819 --> 00:18:00.900
later than the real date.
400
00:18:01.980 --> 00:18:02.299
Wow.
401
00:18:03.079 --> 00:18:05.500
That was notice, and that's the probation officer.
402
00:18:05.819 --> 00:18:06.039
Right.
403
00:18:06.660 --> 00:18:09.099
And that was the notice that Randy and Vicki accepted
404
00:18:09.319 --> 00:18:13.119
as genuine. Meanwhile, Vicki was sending letters of her own.
405
00:18:13.799 --> 00:18:17.680
She addressed federal officials with names like the Queen of Babylon,
406
00:18:18.140 --> 00:18:20.700
accused the government of serving evil, and warned that the
407
00:18:20.740 --> 00:18:24.630
family would obey Yahweh rather than federal orders. The letters
408
00:18:24.650 --> 00:18:28.190
were loaded with biblical language about judgment, death, and destruction.
409
00:18:28.269 --> 00:18:31.309
Yeah, lady, that's a little cookie.
410
00:18:31.470 --> 00:18:35.349
Yeah, Vicki saw them as religious warnings. The people receiving
411
00:18:35.390 --> 00:18:38.180
them saw possible threats from an armed family already talking
412
00:18:38.220 --> 00:18:39.259
about resisting the government.
413
00:18:39.279 --> 00:18:40.259
I mean, I get it.
414
00:18:41.019 --> 00:18:44.000
Randy, he didn't appear on the February 20th date. Chief
415
00:18:44.119 --> 00:18:47.039
District Judge Harold Ryan issued a bench warrant that same day.
416
00:18:47.609 --> 00:18:50.450
The case went to the U.S. Marshal Service. Within days,
417
00:18:50.529 --> 00:18:53.130
the court learned that Richens had given Randy the wrong date.
418
00:18:53.150 --> 00:18:54.029
So the court learned this.
419
00:18:54.089 --> 00:18:56.869
Okay, my bad, guys. Here's your right date. Let's schedule
420
00:18:56.930 --> 00:18:58.150
it to March 20th.
421
00:18:58.450 --> 00:19:01.990
But guess what? That court date mistake did not erase
422
00:19:02.029 --> 00:19:02.470
the warrant.
423
00:19:02.490 --> 00:19:03.430
That's so stupid.
424
00:19:03.609 --> 00:19:07.269
Hoffmeister's letters had carried the correct information. And the judge
425
00:19:07.309 --> 00:19:07.769
believed that, Randy.
426
00:19:07.789 --> 00:19:10.099
No, it didn't, because they already just stated that.
427
00:19:10.819 --> 00:19:12.039
It changed. Right.
428
00:19:12.839 --> 00:19:15.019
But the Hoffmeister's letters were still saying the old date.
429
00:19:15.549 --> 00:19:17.210
Which was only a day before, but still. But still.
430
00:19:17.349 --> 00:19:19.390
Not a month. But still. Right.
431
00:19:19.450 --> 00:19:21.990
They didn't even have the right information from his lawyer.
432
00:19:22.069 --> 00:19:22.309
Right.
433
00:19:22.690 --> 00:19:24.849
So they said that the lawyer sent letters that carried
434
00:19:24.869 --> 00:19:28.029
the correct information, so regardless. But if you're going to
435
00:19:28.049 --> 00:19:30.230
get a letter from a lawyer or the probation officer,
436
00:19:30.250 --> 00:19:31.890
I think I'm going to listen to the probation officer
437
00:19:31.930 --> 00:19:32.710
letter than the lawyer.
438
00:19:33.210 --> 00:19:35.690
You would think, because the probation officer should have the
439
00:19:35.779 --> 00:19:36.319
actual case.
440
00:19:36.559 --> 00:19:37.150
He can arrest you.
441
00:19:38.380 --> 00:19:40.539
So the judge believed that Randy had already decided not
442
00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:43.990
to cooperate with either his lawyer or the court. The
443
00:19:44.009 --> 00:19:46.160
government also knew that Randy was still on the mountain,
444
00:19:46.619 --> 00:19:48.480
so there was no mystery about where to find him.
445
00:19:49.430 --> 00:19:49.970
So he wasn't right.
446
00:19:51.319 --> 00:19:53.660
14th of March, the grand jury added a new charge
447
00:19:53.700 --> 00:19:56.440
for failing to appear. By then, Randy had learned that
448
00:19:56.460 --> 00:19:58.880
the government wanted him again, but he did not come
449
00:19:58.920 --> 00:20:00.099
down to clear up the confusion.
450
00:20:00.900 --> 00:20:03.140
This is kind of his own fault, too. He could have.
451
00:20:03.079 --> 00:20:04.859
Easily just walked in and been like, guys, it was
452
00:20:04.900 --> 00:20:07.400
all a fucking mistake. He would have got probation.
453
00:20:07.779 --> 00:20:10.250
He believed the warrant proved that the court had never
454
00:20:10.289 --> 00:20:13.470
intended to treat him fairly. The federal side saw the
455
00:20:13.509 --> 00:20:17.589
situation differently, though. Whatever Richens had wrote, Randy had ignored
456
00:20:17.630 --> 00:20:20.359
his lawyer anyway. He stopped cooperating with the conditions of
457
00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:23.079
his release and refused to submit to the court once
458
00:20:23.119 --> 00:20:26.119
he knew there was a warrant. Neither side trusted the other,
459
00:20:26.680 --> 00:20:28.880
enough to even correct a mistake that should have never
460
00:20:28.940 --> 00:20:33.200
become this serious. That's the shitty part. The difference was
461
00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:35.700
that the government had the legal authority to arrest him,
462
00:20:35.960 --> 00:20:38.569
while Randy was just a lonely little boy living in
463
00:20:38.589 --> 00:20:42.089
the woods. He told people he would not be taken
464
00:20:42.109 --> 00:20:45.390
by force. Vicki believed the family might die on that mountain,
465
00:20:46.049 --> 00:20:49.970
and she wrote as though that possibility had already been accepted.
466
00:20:51.240 --> 00:20:53.460
Their children heard the same warnings and began preparing for
467
00:20:53.539 --> 00:20:56.359
agents to appear in the trees. What had started as
468
00:20:56.380 --> 00:21:00.299
confusion over two dates were hardening into a test of wills.
469
00:21:01.140 --> 00:21:04.019
United States Marshals had an order from a judge, and
470
00:21:04.039 --> 00:21:06.130
they could not simply forget about Randy Weaver.
471
00:21:06.210 --> 00:21:07.390
Yeah, they got their orders.
472
00:21:07.930 --> 00:21:10.970
Randy believed following that order would place his freedom, his land,
473
00:21:11.009 --> 00:21:12.910
and his family in the hands of the same government
474
00:21:12.950 --> 00:21:17.259
he was trying to hide from. Bringing him in would
475
00:21:17.299 --> 00:21:21.720
now require finding a way past Vicky, the children, the weapons,
476
00:21:22.480 --> 00:21:24.200
and the certainty inside that cabin.
477
00:21:24.460 --> 00:21:27.779
Then an arrest was only the beginning of something worse. Oh,
478
00:21:27.799 --> 00:21:28.190
my God.
479
00:21:30.009 --> 00:21:32.809
The marshals responsible for the warrant understood almost immediately that
480
00:21:32.849 --> 00:21:34.470
walking up to the cabin and knocking on the door
481
00:21:34.519 --> 00:21:38.319
could get him killed. Randy told his friends that he
482
00:21:38.339 --> 00:21:40.440
would resist anyone who came onto his land to arrest him.
483
00:21:41.140 --> 00:21:43.480
Reports reaching the marshals for service, they said Vicki and
484
00:21:43.500 --> 00:21:46.779
the children might fight alongside him. Some of those warnings
485
00:21:46.819 --> 00:21:49.329
were exaggerated, but enough were credible that nobody wanted to
486
00:21:49.369 --> 00:21:52.410
test him. March of 91, the marshals brought in their
487
00:21:52.430 --> 00:21:53.529
special operations group to.
488
00:21:53.490 --> 00:21:54.130
Study the problem.
489
00:21:55.049 --> 00:21:57.710
A psychologist who reviewed the available information predicted that the
490
00:21:57.750 --> 00:22:00.210
family might fight to the death and recommended waiting until
491
00:22:00.250 --> 00:22:01.410
Randy left the property alone.
492
00:22:01.430 --> 00:22:02.630
Like they did before.
493
00:22:03.130 --> 00:22:04.880
The team, well, he's not probably going to now.
494
00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:05.299
Right.
495
00:22:05.839 --> 00:22:08.859
The team reached the same conclusion after visiting Northern Idaho
496
00:22:08.900 --> 00:22:11.799
that June. The cabin sat on high ground. The family
497
00:22:11.839 --> 00:22:14.700
had dogs that warned them whenever someone approached. And Randy,
498
00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:16.759
he rarely went anywhere without Vicki or one of the
499
00:22:16.779 --> 00:22:17.380
children nearby.
500
00:22:17.400 --> 00:22:20.859
Oh, I bet you they had at least six dogs, dude. Oh,
501
00:22:21.099 --> 00:22:21.480
I bet.
502
00:22:21.779 --> 00:22:25.769
And every time they left, they had four guns. A
503
00:22:25.789 --> 00:22:28.109
surprise attack offered no clean way to separate him from them.
504
00:22:28.670 --> 00:22:31.150
The marshals watched places he might visit, including a church
505
00:22:31.190 --> 00:22:33.710
connected to the Christian identity movement, but he didn't appear.
506
00:22:34.750 --> 00:22:37.190
They considered sending someone up under a white flag, then
507
00:22:37.230 --> 00:22:39.390
abandoned the idea because they feared he might fire before
508
00:22:39.410 --> 00:22:46.079
learning who it was. Friends, neighbors, Vicki's parents, and people
509
00:22:46.119 --> 00:22:49.440
connected to Aryan nations were asked to carry messages. Even
510
00:22:49.480 --> 00:22:51.599
Richard Butler, the head of the Aryan Nations, he was
511
00:22:51.640 --> 00:22:53.380
encouraged to tell Randy that he should come down and
512
00:22:53.400 --> 00:22:57.299
face the charges. Hoffmeister, he wrote that the gun case
513
00:22:57.359 --> 00:22:59.460
is relatively minor and that Randy might even have a
514
00:22:59.460 --> 00:23:00.109
strong defense.
515
00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:01.829
Right. I think it would have been, like you said,
516
00:23:01.869 --> 00:23:03.109
maybe probation. It would have been probation.
517
00:23:03.130 --> 00:23:03.869
He had no priors.
518
00:23:03.910 --> 00:23:04.109
Right.
519
00:23:04.690 --> 00:23:06.930
Vicki, she answered that living or dying on the mountain
520
00:23:06.950 --> 00:23:10.509
was part of Yahweh's plan. Randy refused to accept Hoffmeister
521
00:23:10.609 --> 00:23:12.390
as his lawyer and said surrendering through him would only
522
00:23:12.430 --> 00:23:15.809
guarantee that his rights were violated. By October of 91,
523
00:23:15.809 --> 00:23:18.700
the messages passed to a friend named Alan Jepson. It
524
00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:21.900
finally produced the beginning of a real negotiation. Randy said
525
00:23:21.940 --> 00:23:23.660
he did not trust the government because they had lied
526
00:23:23.680 --> 00:23:25.299
to him and used an informant to set him up
527
00:23:25.339 --> 00:23:27.690
in the first place. He also believed he could not
528
00:23:27.730 --> 00:23:30.009
receive a fair trial in Idaho because of prejudice against
529
00:23:30.049 --> 00:23:32.390
his racial beliefs. I think there's many more people like
530
00:23:32.430 --> 00:23:36.349
you than there are not in Idaho, buddy. According to Jepson,
531
00:23:36.809 --> 00:23:38.630
Randy might come down if the trial were moved and
532
00:23:38.670 --> 00:23:40.559
if Jepson could remain with him until he was released
533
00:23:40.619 --> 00:23:43.839
or sentenced. The marshals prepared a response and began working
534
00:23:43.859 --> 00:23:47.859
through the possible surrender terms. Then Assistant U.S. Attorney Ron Howen,
535
00:23:47.900 --> 00:23:51.049
he ordered them to stop. Howen said Randy was already
536
00:23:51.089 --> 00:23:54.049
represented by Hoffmeister, which meant the government couldn't negotiate with
537
00:23:54.069 --> 00:23:57.230
him directly or through someone else. That might have sounded
538
00:23:57.269 --> 00:23:59.769
proper on paper, but everyone involved knew Randy had rejected
539
00:23:59.809 --> 00:24:01.769
Hoffmeister and would not speak to him.
540
00:24:01.990 --> 00:24:02.670
These guys are just.
541
00:24:04.019 --> 00:24:06.819
Howen, he never asked whether Hoffmeister would consent to the talks,
542
00:24:06.900 --> 00:24:08.720
and he treated the rule as absolute, even though there
543
00:24:08.740 --> 00:24:11.859
were no exceptions, even though there were exceptions that could
544
00:24:11.880 --> 00:24:16.170
have allowed communication. The Justice Department. They later concluded that
545
00:24:16.210 --> 00:24:19.549
shutting down the negotiations was a mistake that made the
546
00:24:19.569 --> 00:24:23.069
marshals' job harder. Nobody could say the talks would have succeeded,
547
00:24:23.150 --> 00:24:24.730
but they were one of the few options that did
548
00:24:24.750 --> 00:24:26.150
not place armed men near the children.
549
00:24:27.190 --> 00:24:30.269
Well, if they could have explained in clarity exactly what
550
00:24:30.289 --> 00:24:32.230
was going to happen, they would have laid out exactly
551
00:24:32.269 --> 00:24:33.049
what was going to happen.
552
00:24:33.130 --> 00:24:34.869
I think maybe.
553
00:24:36.450 --> 00:24:38.930
But look, dude, we're not taking your land. We're not
554
00:24:38.950 --> 00:24:41.069
going to infringe on the way you're living. You just
555
00:24:41.109 --> 00:24:42.859
fucked up and sold two illegal guns, bud.
556
00:24:44.170 --> 00:24:48.069
That's literally it. Don't do it again. Geez.
557
00:24:48.089 --> 00:24:50.910
Through the winter, snow had made regular surveillance nearly impossible.
558
00:24:51.569 --> 00:24:54.390
When activity resumed in 1992, the marshals still rejected a
559
00:24:54.430 --> 00:24:58.890
direct assault. Plans involving armed teams surrounding the cabin were
560
00:24:58.910 --> 00:25:03.460
considered and thrown out. So was a supposedly non-lethal version
561
00:25:03.539 --> 00:25:05.299
using rubber bullets in an attempt to cut off the
562
00:25:05.339 --> 00:25:11.299
family's water. The acting director of the marshal service asked
563
00:25:11.319 --> 00:25:13.099
what would happen if one of the children fired during
564
00:25:13.140 --> 00:25:16.200
either operation. The answer was that the marshals would have
565
00:25:16.240 --> 00:25:18.579
to defend themselves, and that was enough to kill both plans.
566
00:25:18.960 --> 00:25:21.759
They were like, we're not going to kill kids. Senior
567
00:25:21.779 --> 00:25:24.400
officials even asked prosecutors to dismiss the indictment and file
568
00:25:24.460 --> 00:25:26.579
it again under seal. Yeah, just fucking, why are we
569
00:25:26.599 --> 00:25:27.779
doing this over two shotguns?
570
00:25:27.819 --> 00:25:28.140
Right.
571
00:25:29.039 --> 00:25:30.880
That would take away the immediate pressure to execute the
572
00:25:30.900 --> 00:25:33.109
warrant and allow agents to wait until Randy left the mountain,
573
00:25:33.309 --> 00:25:36.970
but the U.S. Attorney's Office refused. The warrant remained active
574
00:25:37.289 --> 00:25:39.529
while the prosecutors in court offered little practical help in
575
00:25:39.569 --> 00:25:40.710
finding a peaceful way to serve it.
576
00:25:40.730 --> 00:25:40.829
Mm-mm.
577
00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:43.650
By the spring of 92, the marshals settled on an
578
00:25:43.710 --> 00:25:46.390
operation that could take as long as a year. Say
579
00:25:46.430 --> 00:25:48.470
two deputies, they would pose as a married couple buying
580
00:25:48.509 --> 00:25:49.569
land near the Weaver property.
581
00:25:49.630 --> 00:25:50.230
Oh, geez.
582
00:25:50.309 --> 00:25:53.250
Why are they going? They're going through lengths like this.
583
00:25:53.150 --> 00:25:55.660
Dude's a mob boss or something. It's fucking insane.
584
00:25:56.400 --> 00:25:59.039
Geez. They would clear part of it, establish themselves as
585
00:25:59.140 --> 00:26:01.779
real neighbors, and slowly earn Randy's trust.
586
00:26:02.039 --> 00:26:05.970
Oh, my. This is insane. All for two sawed-off shotguns. Seriously.
587
00:26:06.369 --> 00:26:08.569
Hidden teams, they would protect them during each visit, but
588
00:26:08.670 --> 00:26:10.750
nobody would attempt an arrest unless Randy could be taken
589
00:26:10.769 --> 00:26:13.210
away from his family without a fight. It was an
590
00:26:13.329 --> 00:26:15.390
unusually slow plan for a man who had just been
591
00:26:15.430 --> 00:26:17.109
sitting openly at home for more than a year, but
592
00:26:17.309 --> 00:26:20.200
speed was no longer the priority. The marshals, they had
593
00:26:20.240 --> 00:26:23.200
accepted the safest way onto Randy Weaver's mountain was to
594
00:26:23.220 --> 00:26:24.900
make him believe that they didn't want him at all.
595
00:26:26.220 --> 00:26:30.240
This is just insanely crazy. Wow.
596
00:26:31.119 --> 00:26:33.910
Waiting that long required the marshals to understand exactly what
597
00:26:33.930 --> 00:26:38.099
they might face, but The file they inherited made Randy
598
00:26:38.119 --> 00:26:41.079
look more dangerous every time another agency added something to it.
599
00:26:41.980 --> 00:26:44.240
The ATF passed along reports that he had a criminal
600
00:26:44.279 --> 00:26:45.859
record and had once robbed a bank.
601
00:26:46.140 --> 00:26:50.750
Oh, my goodness. Neither claim was true.
602
00:26:51.450 --> 00:26:53.890
So the ATF is just out here actively making up
603
00:26:53.930 --> 00:26:54.769
shit about somebody.
604
00:26:54.970 --> 00:26:57.410
Oh, my gosh. They wanted all the guns they had
605
00:26:57.450 --> 00:27:03.009
in theirs. I guarantee it. Obviously, dude. Quite a bit, probably. Yeah. Oh,
606
00:27:03.069 --> 00:27:03.640
his army service.
607
00:27:03.660 --> 00:27:04.769
They're in a little remote part.
608
00:27:04.670 --> 00:27:05.170
Of the country.
609
00:27:05.309 --> 00:27:07.119
These guys have nothing fucking else better to do.
610
00:27:07.150 --> 00:27:08.170
So they're like, well, this is our.
611
00:27:08.130 --> 00:27:09.230
One chance at action, boys.
612
00:27:09.410 --> 00:27:12.029
Fucking ridiculous. Oh, my goodness.
613
00:27:12.210 --> 00:27:14.970
His army service, it was real. He did earn the
614
00:27:15.009 --> 00:27:16.970
Green Beret, but he never fought in Vietnam.
615
00:27:16.990 --> 00:27:21.390
So what? He never claimed to. Over time, that background was.
616
00:27:21.410 --> 00:27:23.130
Yeah, but he still earned the Green Beret, which means
617
00:27:23.170 --> 00:27:23.990
he's a bad motherfucker.
618
00:27:24.009 --> 00:27:24.349
Right.
619
00:27:24.849 --> 00:27:27.809
Over time, that background was sometimes repeated as though he
620
00:27:27.849 --> 00:27:29.769
were an experienced combat veteran trained to.
621
00:27:29.789 --> 00:27:30.829
Kill from the Moans.
622
00:27:31.569 --> 00:27:33.309
They were probably rambling it up. Right.
623
00:27:33.329 --> 00:27:33.910
Ramble, yeah.
624
00:27:33.950 --> 00:27:36.329
Ramble was probably, yeah, Ramble was the thing. So they're like,
625
00:27:36.349 --> 00:27:38.569
this is fucking John Ramble up there.
626
00:27:38.589 --> 00:27:39.490
Oh, my goodness.
627
00:27:39.710 --> 00:27:44.240
Other reports, they claim the property contained tunnels, bunkers, hidden explosives,
628
00:27:44.720 --> 00:27:46.279
automatic weapons all over the property.
629
00:27:46.299 --> 00:27:47.119
There's probably some of those.
630
00:27:47.359 --> 00:27:48.039
Booby traps.
631
00:27:48.059 --> 00:27:48.740
Maybe some of those.
632
00:27:49.160 --> 00:27:51.430
There were stories that the family had prepared caves where
633
00:27:51.450 --> 00:27:53.990
they could survive a siege and that anyone approaching the
634
00:27:54.029 --> 00:27:56.210
cabin would enter a carefully built defensive position.
635
00:27:57.329 --> 00:27:57.430
Wow.
636
00:28:27.940 --> 00:28:30.200
Randy's own statements made it easier to believe the worst.
637
00:28:30.839 --> 00:28:33.799
He talked about dying rather than surrendering. He kept his
638
00:28:33.839 --> 00:28:36.900
family armed and described the government as an enemy that
639
00:28:36.980 --> 00:28:40.549
might attack them. When visitors approached, Randy, Harris, or the
640
00:28:40.569 --> 00:28:43.089
children sometimes watched from covered positions until they knew who
641
00:28:43.130 --> 00:28:43.549
had arrived.
642
00:28:43.569 --> 00:28:44.309
I mean, why not?
643
00:28:45.349 --> 00:28:47.049
That was enough to confirm that the family was prepared
644
00:28:47.069 --> 00:28:49.410
to resist, even if it did not prove the cabinet
645
00:28:49.450 --> 00:28:52.829
were surrounded by bombs and tunnels. The most damaging report?
646
00:28:53.289 --> 00:28:57.259
April 1992. helicopter hired for a television program.
647
00:28:57.460 --> 00:28:58.599
They flew over that area.
648
00:28:59.400 --> 00:29:01.750
One pilot told reporters that someone on the Weaver property
649
00:29:01.789 --> 00:29:02.529
had fired a.
650
00:29:02.549 --> 00:29:03.130
Gun at him.
651
00:29:03.150 --> 00:29:06.210
Well, that takes things to a new level.
652
00:29:06.410 --> 00:29:06.609
Right.
653
00:29:06.670 --> 00:29:09.809
If it's true, newspapers quickly picked up that story and
654
00:29:10.210 --> 00:29:18.150
supposed attack became another example of Randy's willingness to shoot
655
00:29:18.190 --> 00:29:21.990
at anyone who came near their mountain. But the evidence
656
00:29:22.029 --> 00:29:25.420
underneath it is weak. A marshal working nearby had seen
657
00:29:25.440 --> 00:29:29.259
the helicopter and he didn't report hearing any gunfire. Ranney
658
00:29:29.299 --> 00:29:30.759
denied anyone had shot at all. He was like, what
659
00:29:30.779 --> 00:29:31.319
are you talking about?
660
00:29:31.339 --> 00:29:31.779
Nobody shot.
661
00:29:31.980 --> 00:29:33.440
It's just a fucking helicopter. You know how many times
662
00:29:33.460 --> 00:29:37.289
you see helicopters? FBI questioned the other pilot and the
663
00:29:37.309 --> 00:29:38.789
man said there had been no shooting.
664
00:29:38.809 --> 00:29:39.950
Here we go.
665
00:29:40.690 --> 00:29:43.950
Even with those contradictions the claim survived because why it
666
00:29:44.230 --> 00:29:48.500
was in the files it later appeared among the acts
667
00:29:48.579 --> 00:29:51.259
prosecutors accused the weavers and kevin harris of committing as
668
00:29:51.319 --> 00:29:53.720
part of conspiracy against the government they even shot at
669
00:29:53.960 --> 00:29:55.599
a news helicopter.
670
00:29:55.430 --> 00:29:58.259
A conspiracy against the government that they created.
671
00:29:58.339 --> 00:30:01.299
The Justice Department would eventually criticize that decision because the
672
00:30:01.319 --> 00:30:04.640
prosecution already possessed evidence that no shots have been fired.
673
00:30:06.420 --> 00:30:07.759
None of this, though, made Randy.
674
00:30:07.839 --> 00:30:10.660
One from a frickin' marshal agent and one from the
675
00:30:10.720 --> 00:30:13.180
actual one of the pilots that was on the damn helicopter.
676
00:30:13.359 --> 00:30:13.880
Oh, my goodness.
677
00:30:13.900 --> 00:30:14.779
What are we doing?
678
00:30:15.259 --> 00:30:19.250
But regardless, the government's eyes, none of this made Randy harmless.
679
00:30:19.869 --> 00:30:23.109
He was wanted on a valid warrant, had openly threatened
680
00:30:23.130 --> 00:30:26.309
to resist... and allowed his chariot to carry weapons while
681
00:30:26.349 --> 00:30:29.809
living inside a confrontation he had helped create. They're carrying
682
00:30:29.849 --> 00:30:31.529
weapons because they're in the middle of the woods. You
683
00:30:31.549 --> 00:30:35.150
know what's in those woods in Idaho? Bear, fucking moose.
684
00:30:35.799 --> 00:30:39.799
Sasquatch. Yeah, man. Yeah, man. Yeah, man.
685
00:30:40.359 --> 00:30:42.779
But the difference between an armed man refusing to surrender
686
00:30:42.839 --> 00:30:46.859
and a combat-trained bank robber waiting behind explosives was enormous.
687
00:30:47.059 --> 00:30:49.380
I would too, right?
688
00:30:50.269 --> 00:30:53.089
And by the summer of 92, both versions existed. in
689
00:30:53.109 --> 00:30:56.670
the same federal paperwork. The careful marshals planning the arrests,
690
00:30:56.970 --> 00:30:59.019
they knew some of the information could not be trusted.
691
00:30:59.720 --> 00:31:02.319
But they still had to repair as though the worst
692
00:31:02.359 --> 00:31:06.400
parts may actually be true, I guess. The undercover operation
693
00:31:06.440 --> 00:31:10.920
now had a name, Northern Exposure, and final approval came
694
00:31:10.960 --> 00:31:14.349
in early August. Since the property had not been watched
695
00:31:14.390 --> 00:31:16.750
closely for several months, the team needed one more trip
696
00:31:16.849 --> 00:31:19.589
up the mountain before replacing undercover deputies next door.
697
00:31:19.609 --> 00:31:20.990
It was supposed to.
698
00:31:20.970 --> 00:31:24.950
Be another quiet reconnaissance, A chance to update their information,
699
00:31:25.549 --> 00:31:29.049
find safe positions for the men protecting the operation. But instead,
700
00:31:29.490 --> 00:31:33.750
it would bring armed marshals Randy, Kevin Harris, and 14-year-old
701
00:31:33.809 --> 00:31:36.750
Sammy Weaver onto the same narrow trail.
702
00:31:37.849 --> 00:31:40.359
Wow, talk about fucking... Fate.
703
00:31:40.539 --> 00:31:40.900
Right.
704
00:31:41.039 --> 00:31:41.740
Holy shit.
705
00:31:42.420 --> 00:31:46.579
The surveillance team gathered in northern Idaho August 17, 1992.
706
00:31:46.579 --> 00:31:49.000
Art Roderick, he led the mission, joined by Larry Cooper,
707
00:31:49.079 --> 00:31:52.819
David Hunt, Joseph Thomas, Frank Norris, and William Deegan. who
708
00:31:52.859 --> 00:31:55.839
was an experienced member of the Marshal Services Special Operations Group,
709
00:31:55.859 --> 00:31:59.380
had flown all the way in from Boston. Their assignment
710
00:31:59.400 --> 00:32:01.509
was to update the old surveillance, study the ground around
711
00:32:01.549 --> 00:32:04.349
the cabin, identify positions where hidden teams could protect the
712
00:32:04.410 --> 00:32:06.990
undercover couple once they began appearing on the neighboring land.
713
00:32:08.029 --> 00:32:09.710
They were not going up the mountain to arrest Randy
714
00:32:09.730 --> 00:32:12.029
that morning, and they had orders to avoid any confrontation
715
00:32:12.049 --> 00:32:14.809
with the family. About 2.30 in the morning, August 21st,
716
00:32:14.829 --> 00:32:18.190
the six Marshals left their temporary command post on Schweitzer Mountain,
717
00:32:19.049 --> 00:32:20.750
drove part of the way in a van, transferred to
718
00:32:20.769 --> 00:32:24.019
a Jeep, reached their starting point around 4.30. Each man
719
00:32:24.039 --> 00:32:27.279
wore camo, carried a radio, night vision equipment, a handgun,
720
00:32:27.519 --> 00:32:31.740
and a rifle or a carbine. Bulletproof vests, they were available,
721
00:32:31.779 --> 00:32:33.059
but they chose not to wear them because of the
722
00:32:33.099 --> 00:32:36.960
difficult climb. Deegan, he brought several weapons from Boston, including
723
00:32:36.980 --> 00:32:40.329
a sniper rifle, but the team left that behind because, obviously,
724
00:32:40.369 --> 00:32:41.190
what the fuck are you going to do with it
725
00:32:41.210 --> 00:32:41.809
when you're walking?
726
00:32:42.069 --> 00:32:42.269
Right.
727
00:32:43.349 --> 00:32:45.190
Moving in darkness, the marshals followed a trail to a
728
00:32:45.250 --> 00:32:48.339
junction shaped like the letter Y. Hunt, Thomas, and Norris,
729
00:32:48.359 --> 00:32:50.599
they continued toward an observation post on the north ridge,
730
00:32:50.640 --> 00:32:53.059
about a half mile from the cabin. They carried a
731
00:32:53.079 --> 00:32:58.700
spotting scope, a still camera, and a video camera. Roderick, Cooper, Deegan,
732
00:32:58.720 --> 00:33:00.809
they moved closer to inspect the routes around the property.
733
00:33:01.289 --> 00:33:03.769
As daylight came up, the observation team watched Sammy and
734
00:33:03.809 --> 00:33:05.910
Kevin Harris checking the area around the cabin whenever the
735
00:33:05.950 --> 00:33:06.869
family's dogs barked.
736
00:33:07.950 --> 00:33:08.690
I've got patrols.
737
00:33:09.589 --> 00:33:12.970
Roderick's group studied the driveway, outbuildings, the garden, the spring house,
738
00:33:13.009 --> 00:33:15.130
and possible hiding places for the teams that would cover
739
00:33:15.150 --> 00:33:18.529
the undercover operations. At one point, Roderick, he threw two
740
00:33:18.569 --> 00:33:20.250
rocks to see how far the sound carried and whether
741
00:33:20.269 --> 00:33:24.009
the dogs would react. Nothing happened. The men continued toward
742
00:33:24.029 --> 00:33:26.250
the spring house, entering the area closest to the cabin.
743
00:33:27.029 --> 00:33:29.539
Then the observation team radioed that the weavers were responding
744
00:33:29.579 --> 00:33:32.460
to a vehicle coming up the road. Those dogs, they
745
00:33:32.480 --> 00:33:34.240
began barking and people came out of the cabin to
746
00:33:34.279 --> 00:33:37.539
take their usual positions. Vicki, she stayed near the house
747
00:33:37.680 --> 00:33:40.059
as Roderick, Cooper, and Deacon prepared to leave the family's
748
00:33:40.099 --> 00:33:43.319
yellow lab striker. He caught their scent and charged into
749
00:33:43.359 --> 00:33:47.339
the woods. Kevin Harris, he followed with a rifle. Randy
750
00:33:47.380 --> 00:33:50.660
and Sammy came from behind, also armed. Harris later said
751
00:33:50.680 --> 00:33:52.519
the dog's reaction made him think it had found either
752
00:33:52.559 --> 00:33:55.500
a person or a large animal. The marshals knew they
753
00:33:55.519 --> 00:34:00.829
had been discovered and began moving quickly downhill. They crashed
754
00:34:01.029 --> 00:34:03.789
through thick brush, making far more noise than they had
755
00:34:03.809 --> 00:34:08.309
during the approach, while Stryker and Harris continued closing the distance. Roderick,
756
00:34:08.329 --> 00:34:10.150
he believed they could have stopped, hidden in the woods
757
00:34:10.190 --> 00:34:12.210
and opened fire, but their orders were still to avoid
758
00:34:12.230 --> 00:34:12.750
a confrontation.
759
00:34:12.789 --> 00:34:14.570
Right. What the fuck? What are you doing, Roderick?
760
00:34:14.710 --> 00:34:14.949
Right.
761
00:34:15.190 --> 00:34:18.349
They kept retreating until the train narrowed around them. Roderick,
762
00:34:18.389 --> 00:34:20.929
he reached the Y first. Deegan dropped behind a stump
763
00:34:20.949 --> 00:34:22.530
near the edge of the trail, and Cooper moved into
764
00:34:22.570 --> 00:34:25.260
another position as the dog, Harris, and Sammy came through
765
00:34:25.280 --> 00:34:28.559
the trees behind them. The quiet surveillance mission was over.
766
00:34:28.639 --> 00:34:29.039
I bet.
767
00:34:29.480 --> 00:34:32.400
Within moments, Stryker, Sammy Weaver, and William Deegan would all
768
00:34:32.420 --> 00:34:32.780
be dead.
769
00:34:32.800 --> 00:34:32.880
Yeah.
770
00:34:33.960 --> 00:34:35.920
And everyone left alive, they would all tell a different
771
00:34:35.940 --> 00:34:38.500
story about what shot started it and how it happened.
772
00:34:38.559 --> 00:34:40.239
Son of a bitch, dude. Good lord.
773
00:34:41.960 --> 00:34:44.840
Randy, he reached the Y from a different trail, suddenly
774
00:34:44.880 --> 00:34:48.699
found himself about 40 feet from Cooper. Both men appeared surprised.
775
00:34:48.840 --> 00:34:50.079
What the fuck?
776
00:34:50.360 --> 00:34:52.380
Cooper later said he shouted for everyone to back off
777
00:34:52.800 --> 00:34:56.780
and identified the group were United States Marshals. Roderick also
778
00:34:56.860 --> 00:35:00.639
said he yelled for Randy to stop. But Randy turned
779
00:35:00.679 --> 00:35:04.159
toward the cabin and disappeared from his view. Stryker, the dog,
780
00:35:04.239 --> 00:35:07.559
ran around Cooper, growling and circling close enough that Cooper
781
00:35:07.599 --> 00:35:10.380
considered shooting him. He held back because Harris was watching,
782
00:35:11.059 --> 00:35:12.480
and he feared killing the dog in front of him
783
00:35:12.519 --> 00:35:16.389
would start a gunfight, obviously. Stryker moved past Cooper and
784
00:35:16.469 --> 00:35:17.730
ran toward Roderick instead.
785
00:35:17.969 --> 00:35:19.349
We all know Roderick. He's got that trigger.
786
00:35:19.369 --> 00:35:20.570
He's got trigger happy, little fucker.
787
00:35:21.349 --> 00:35:23.989
Harris and Sammy entered the clearing near Deegan, who was
788
00:35:24.050 --> 00:35:27.170
crouched behind a stump. From there, the two versions, they
789
00:35:27.190 --> 00:35:30.230
break apart. Cooper said Deegan rose to one knee, aimed
790
00:35:30.250 --> 00:35:31.670
his rifle, and called out, Stop!
791
00:35:32.030 --> 00:35:32.260
U.S.
792
00:35:32.280 --> 00:35:32.570
Marshal!
793
00:35:33.219 --> 00:35:35.300
According to Cooper, Harris had his back to Deegan, but
794
00:35:35.360 --> 00:35:38.940
spun around and fired his. 30- 06 from waist level before
795
00:35:38.980 --> 00:35:41.260
Cooper could even finish identifying himself.
796
00:35:41.460 --> 00:35:44.039
I don't know about that. The bullet struck Deegan in
797
00:35:44.059 --> 00:35:44.480
the chest.
798
00:35:44.900 --> 00:35:48.260
Cooper fired a three-round burst from a suppressed 9mm at Harris,
799
00:35:48.639 --> 00:35:52.349
who dropped behind cover. Roderick, he was farther down trail
800
00:35:52.889 --> 00:35:54.989
and could not see what was happening between Harris and Deegan.
801
00:35:56.090 --> 00:35:58.469
He heard a heavy shot from that direction, then saw
802
00:35:58.489 --> 00:36:01.230
a striker coming toward him, believing a dog might attack.
803
00:36:01.659 --> 00:36:04.070
or lead the others directly to his position, Roderick fired
804
00:36:04.190 --> 00:36:06.690
once with his M16, hit Stryker near the base of
805
00:36:06.710 --> 00:36:11.090
his spine. Sammy saw his dog fall, cursed at Roderick,
806
00:36:11.110 --> 00:36:14.639
and fired at least two rounds from his Mini-14. Roderick
807
00:36:14.699 --> 00:36:16.800
dove into the trees. Cooper heard the shoot and shift
808
00:36:16.840 --> 00:36:19.840
toward Roderick and tried to reach Deegan. He fired another
809
00:36:19.880 --> 00:36:23.119
three-round burst toward the gunfire. Then he saw Sammy running
810
00:36:23.179 --> 00:36:25.969
uphill toward the cabin. Cooper laid it and insisted he
811
00:36:26.030 --> 00:36:28.889
did not believe he had hit him. Harris' account reversed
812
00:36:28.929 --> 00:36:32.030
the reversed the most important part of that sequence. He
813
00:36:32.050 --> 00:36:35.190
said that Roderick shot Stryker first. Sammy yelled at the
814
00:36:35.230 --> 00:36:38.250
marshal for killing his dog and fired back. Harris, he
815
00:36:38.289 --> 00:36:40.090
claimed that Deegan then came out of the woods and
816
00:36:40.150 --> 00:36:43.090
shot Sammy in the arm. Seeing the boy hit, Harris
817
00:36:43.150 --> 00:36:46.260
raised his. 30- 06 and fired once into Deegan's chest. That's
818
00:36:46.280 --> 00:36:49.659
probably what happened. Under that version, Harris did kill Deegan,
819
00:36:50.079 --> 00:36:52.099
but only after the marshals had killed the dog and
820
00:36:52.159 --> 00:36:55.329
opened fire on Sammy. Harris also said that he did
821
00:36:55.369 --> 00:36:59.130
not hear anyone else identifying themselves as U.S. Marshals until
822
00:36:59.150 --> 00:37:03.789
the shooting was nearly over. Randy's recollection was again different.
823
00:37:04.289 --> 00:37:04.769
He wasn't there.
824
00:37:05.030 --> 00:37:07.449
He remembered hearing someone order him to freeze before the
825
00:37:07.489 --> 00:37:11.110
gunfire began, followed by Striker yelping and the woods erupting
826
00:37:11.159 --> 00:37:14.159
in shots. The entire fight lasted only seconds.
827
00:37:14.360 --> 00:37:15.039
As it usually does.
828
00:37:15.420 --> 00:37:18.780
Deegan's chest wound was fatal. Cooper reached him while he
829
00:37:18.800 --> 00:37:21.820
was still conscious but unable to speak. And within moments,
830
00:37:22.139 --> 00:37:23.300
Deegan stopped breathing.
831
00:37:23.750 --> 00:37:24.889
Should have worn those vests, boys.
832
00:37:25.329 --> 00:37:26.409
Sammy had been hit twice.
833
00:37:26.590 --> 00:37:29.429
One bullet struck near his right elbow, traveled through an arm,
834
00:37:29.489 --> 00:37:32.449
and shattered part of his rifle stock. The fatal round
835
00:37:32.710 --> 00:37:35.679
entered his back, passed through his body from left to
836
00:37:35.739 --> 00:37:39.219
right as he moved toward the cabin. Harris found him
837
00:37:39.280 --> 00:37:42.699
on the trail, tried to help, and realized the boy
838
00:37:42.739 --> 00:37:46.199
was dead. He then carried or helped move Sammy uphill.
839
00:37:46.519 --> 00:37:48.539
This is where Randy and Vicky brought their son's body
840
00:37:48.559 --> 00:37:51.840
into a small shed near the house. The physical evidence
841
00:37:51.880 --> 00:37:56.090
settled some questions. but left the largest one unanswered. Harris
842
00:37:56.309 --> 00:37:59.690
fired the bullet that killed Deacon, something he never denied.
843
00:38:00.150 --> 00:38:04.070
Roderick fired the single round that killed Stryker. Ammo counts
844
00:38:04.110 --> 00:38:06.639
show that Cooper fired six rounds from his 9mm and
845
00:38:06.679 --> 00:38:08.519
that Deacon's M16 had fired seven.
846
00:38:09.519 --> 00:38:11.460
But he only fired a single shot, remember?
847
00:38:11.780 --> 00:38:14.340
Although none of the surviving marshals remember seeing Deacon pull
848
00:38:14.380 --> 00:38:18.619
the trigger. The three marshals stationed at the observation post
849
00:38:18.679 --> 00:38:21.800
did not fire at all. Investigators could not determine how
850
00:38:21.840 --> 00:38:25.300
many shots came from Randy, Harris, and Sammy. Several marshals
851
00:38:25.800 --> 00:38:29.900
thought the first shot sounded like Harris' heavier. 30- 06, but
852
00:38:29.980 --> 00:38:32.710
another one believed the first shot came from a. 223,
853
00:38:32.710 --> 00:38:37.329
the same caliber carried by Roderick and Deegan. They generally
854
00:38:37.389 --> 00:38:39.829
agreed that there had been one shot, then two close
855
00:38:39.849 --> 00:38:43.550
followed together, followed by a burst of gunfire. That was
856
00:38:43.590 --> 00:38:46.820
not enough to identify who shot first. The evidence surrounding
857
00:38:46.860 --> 00:38:50.980
Sammy's death pointed more strongly in one direction. A prosecution
858
00:38:51.019 --> 00:38:54.039
expert concluded the fatal wound was caused by a 9mm
859
00:38:54.059 --> 00:38:57.599
bullet similar to an ammo Cooper carried and entry wound
860
00:38:57.659 --> 00:38:58.219
in the back.
861
00:38:58.659 --> 00:38:58.940
Right.
862
00:38:59.489 --> 00:39:01.510
Making Cooper the most likely person to have fired it.
863
00:39:02.849 --> 00:39:06.030
Years later, tests on a bullet recovered during another search
864
00:39:06.050 --> 00:39:08.949
reportedly matched it to Cooper's gun and found fibers consistent
865
00:39:08.969 --> 00:39:09.829
with Sammy's shirt.
866
00:39:10.630 --> 00:39:11.809
Damn, I went through him, man.
867
00:39:12.250 --> 00:39:15.340
Even then, nothing showed that Cooper deliberately aimed at the boy.
868
00:39:15.800 --> 00:39:18.840
He was firing toward people shooting at marshals. Sammy was
869
00:39:18.880 --> 00:39:23.070
struck while running away. The Justice Department later concluded that
870
00:39:23.090 --> 00:39:25.599
the marshals had not gone to the property planning an
871
00:39:25.659 --> 00:39:28.429
ambush and had shown restraint while trying to retreat.
872
00:39:28.469 --> 00:39:29.789
Well, nobody said they were planning an ambush.
873
00:39:29.849 --> 00:39:29.949
Right.
874
00:39:30.030 --> 00:39:31.250
Mean, holy hell, dude.
875
00:39:31.809 --> 00:39:34.130
It also admitted that the evidence could not produce a final,
876
00:39:34.349 --> 00:39:38.309
reliable order for every shot. The marshal account made Harris
877
00:39:38.329 --> 00:39:40.960
the man who began the fight by shooting Deegan, of course.
878
00:39:41.699 --> 00:39:44.280
The Harris account made Roderick's killing of Stryker the act
879
00:39:44.320 --> 00:39:46.519
that set everything off and placed Sammy under.
880
00:39:46.420 --> 00:39:50.219
Fire before Harris pulled the trigger. Neither version could ever
881
00:39:50.260 --> 00:39:50.559
be proven.
882
00:39:50.579 --> 00:39:52.280
Well, that's what you get when you got a little
883
00:39:52.300 --> 00:39:55.340
14-year-old fucking numbnuts that has a gun. You killed his dog.
884
00:39:55.360 --> 00:39:58.010
I get it. That's all he has. Living on a mountain.
885
00:39:58.050 --> 00:39:59.889
That's all he has is that dog. Right. Right.
886
00:40:00.230 --> 00:40:00.389
Right.
887
00:40:00.929 --> 00:40:01.969
Like, come on now, guys.
888
00:40:01.989 --> 00:40:05.110
You ever watch Where the Red Fern Grows? Damn it.
889
00:40:06.670 --> 00:40:07.050
Old Yeller?
890
00:40:07.309 --> 00:40:08.989
Man. Old Yeller? Yeah.
891
00:40:09.570 --> 00:40:12.809
What remained beyond dispute is that the armed men who
892
00:40:12.849 --> 00:40:15.920
have been trying to avoid one another finally met in
893
00:40:15.940 --> 00:40:21.230
the woods. A federal deputy. 14-year-old boy grieving over his
894
00:40:21.269 --> 00:40:24.969
dead dog. They died within feet from each other. And
895
00:40:25.010 --> 00:40:27.449
each side returned to its own people, believing the other
896
00:40:27.469 --> 00:40:29.289
had fired without cause.
897
00:40:30.429 --> 00:40:32.550
Well, the Weavers, they reached the cabin carrying Sammy's body,
898
00:40:32.610 --> 00:40:34.219
but there was nothing anyone could do for him.
899
00:40:34.260 --> 00:40:34.719
He's gone.
900
00:40:35.280 --> 00:40:37.059
They placed him inside a small building near the house
901
00:40:37.079 --> 00:40:41.460
that Vicki had used when giving birth to Alicia. Randy, Vicki, Sarah, Rachel,
902
00:40:41.480 --> 00:40:43.380
and the baby, they remained around the cabin with Harris,
903
00:40:43.539 --> 00:40:46.340
expecting the men in the woods to come after him. marshals.
904
00:40:46.380 --> 00:40:49.480
They had no idea Sammy was dead, though. From their
905
00:40:49.519 --> 00:40:52.530
position below the house, they heard screaming, crying, and scattered gunfire,
906
00:40:53.150 --> 00:40:55.130
but they assumed the family was reacting to Harris being
907
00:40:55.150 --> 00:40:58.210
wounded or killed. Cooper and Roderick, they stayed hidden with Deegan,
908
00:40:58.250 --> 00:41:01.489
while Norris, who's the team's medic, they tried to help him. Deegan,
909
00:41:01.570 --> 00:41:04.610
he died within minutes. Terrain made his body difficult to move.
910
00:41:05.630 --> 00:41:07.559
Hunt and Thomas, they worked their way off the mountain
911
00:41:07.579 --> 00:41:09.880
to find a telephone and report that a deputy marshal
912
00:41:09.920 --> 00:41:14.400
had just been killed. The call transformed the situation immediately.
913
00:41:15.030 --> 00:41:18.300
It's no longer just a reconnaissance anymore looking for ways
914
00:41:18.320 --> 00:41:21.900
to get the little family next door in. The Marshal Service,
915
00:41:21.940 --> 00:41:23.940
they opened its crisis center in Washington and ordered its
916
00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:25.639
special operations group to Idaho.
917
00:41:25.760 --> 00:41:26.199
Oh, damn.
918
00:41:27.159 --> 00:41:29.500
The sheriff's deputies and Idaho State Police, they moved toward
919
00:41:29.519 --> 00:41:32.320
the property while Governor Cecil Andrus, he declared an emergency
920
00:41:32.360 --> 00:41:35.280
in Boundary County. That allowed the state to open up
921
00:41:35.300 --> 00:41:38.000
the National Guard Armory in Bonner's Ferry and provide equipment,
922
00:41:38.280 --> 00:41:40.059
which included armored personnel carriers.
923
00:41:41.099 --> 00:41:41.239
Wow.
924
00:41:42.059 --> 00:41:44.409
Agents from the FBI, the ATF, the Border Patrol, and
925
00:41:44.449 --> 00:41:47.369
other agencies began arriving as the area filled with vehicles, weapons,
926
00:41:47.429 --> 00:41:48.690
medical teams, and reporters.
927
00:41:48.889 --> 00:41:49.269
Of course.
928
00:41:49.969 --> 00:41:51.889
Late that day, a rescue team moved through rain and
929
00:41:51.929 --> 00:41:54.670
darkness to reach the marshals trapped below the cabin. Cooper
930
00:41:54.710 --> 00:41:55.150
and Roderick.
931
00:41:56.170 --> 00:41:57.570
They refused to leave without Deegan.
932
00:41:58.360 --> 00:42:00.500
After hours in the woods, they and Norris were finally
933
00:42:00.539 --> 00:42:05.239
brought out along with Deegan's body. First reports from the
934
00:42:05.260 --> 00:42:06.599
mountain were incomplete and sometimes wrong.
935
00:42:06.619 --> 00:42:06.739
Always.
936
00:42:06.780 --> 00:42:09.170
Always. What commanders knew for certain was that a federal
937
00:42:09.210 --> 00:42:10.929
marshal had been shot dead while trying to carry out
938
00:42:10.949 --> 00:42:14.369
an operation involving an armed fugitive. They were told Randy
939
00:42:14.409 --> 00:42:17.010
had been near the fight, Harris had fired the fatal round,
940
00:42:17.070 --> 00:42:18.989
and that family had returned to a cabin believed to
941
00:42:19.010 --> 00:42:19.929
contain several weapons.
942
00:42:20.940 --> 00:42:22.260
They also carried forward.
943
00:42:22.019 --> 00:42:26.159
Many of the older claims about automatic guns, fortified positions, tunnels, explosives,
944
00:42:26.420 --> 00:42:30.099
and a family prepared to die. What they didn't know
945
00:42:30.519 --> 00:42:33.420
was that Sammy Weaver had also been killed. From the
946
00:42:33.460 --> 00:42:35.260
federal side, the people in the cabin had just attacked
947
00:42:35.280 --> 00:42:38.159
a team of marshals and could fire in at anybody approaching.
948
00:42:39.079 --> 00:42:41.400
Inside the Weaver property, the family believed hidden agents had
949
00:42:41.440 --> 00:42:44.119
killed their dog and their son, then surrounded them before
950
00:42:44.139 --> 00:42:47.980
they could bury him. Neither side made contact the first day,
951
00:42:48.039 --> 00:42:50.920
capable of changing the other's understanding either. The FBI sent
952
00:42:50.940 --> 00:42:53.679
its hostage rescue team from Quantico, even though nobody inside
953
00:42:53.699 --> 00:42:57.320
the cabin was being held against their will. Eugene Glenn,
954
00:42:57.360 --> 00:42:59.280
the agent in charge of the FBI's Salt Lake City office,
955
00:43:01.079 --> 00:43:02.760
He became the commander at the scene, with the FBI
956
00:43:02.780 --> 00:43:06.699
taking responsibility for the expanding operation, of course. The mountain
957
00:43:06.760 --> 00:43:09.659
was divided into armed positions. Snipers were prepared for deployment,
958
00:43:10.159 --> 00:43:14.420
plans beginning for forcing the people inside to surrender. By
959
00:43:14.440 --> 00:43:16.539
the morning of August 22nd, hundreds of agents and cops
960
00:43:16.559 --> 00:43:18.659
were moving into a place around a cabin occupied by
961
00:43:18.699 --> 00:43:20.980
a grieving family that had no intention of coming out.
962
00:43:22.179 --> 00:43:24.679
The FBI arrived expecting one of the most dangerous confrontations
963
00:43:24.699 --> 00:43:27.519
this hostage team could face. Before its snipers even entered
964
00:43:27.539 --> 00:43:29.860
the woods, commanders gave them permission to use deadly force
965
00:43:30.389 --> 00:43:33.690
Under rules written specifically for Ruby Ridge, you see somebody,
966
00:43:33.710 --> 00:43:34.750
you kill them, basically.
967
00:43:34.829 --> 00:43:36.269
That's fucked up, dude. Wow.
968
00:43:36.449 --> 00:43:39.469
Well, under FBI's normal policy, carrying a gun was not
969
00:43:39.510 --> 00:43:42.119
enough to make someone a target. An agent could use
970
00:43:42.139 --> 00:43:44.679
deadly force only when there was a reasonable relief that
971
00:43:44.699 --> 00:43:47.599
the person posed an immediate threat of death or serious
972
00:43:47.659 --> 00:43:52.159
injury to an agent or somebody else. If possible, the
973
00:43:52.219 --> 00:43:54.909
agent was also expected to identify himself and give a
974
00:43:54.949 --> 00:43:56.389
warning before even firing a shot.
975
00:43:56.409 --> 00:43:57.750
I don't think you're going to do that when you're
976
00:43:57.769 --> 00:43:58.789
a sniper anyways, but.
977
00:43:59.650 --> 00:44:02.030
That policy still gave agents the right to protect themselves,
978
00:44:02.070 --> 00:44:04.190
but it required them to judge what the armed person
979
00:44:04.210 --> 00:44:06.239
was doing at that very moment the shot was taken.
980
00:44:07.510 --> 00:44:10.800
The commanders gathering at Ruby Ridge decided that standard did
981
00:44:10.840 --> 00:44:13.280
not give the hostage rescue team enough room to operate.
982
00:44:14.579 --> 00:44:18.059
They believed that the Weavers and Harris had ambushed Marshalls,
983
00:44:18.380 --> 00:44:21.500
murdered Deegan, fired on a television helicopter, and prepared the
984
00:44:21.519 --> 00:44:22.599
cabin for a final battle.
985
00:44:22.920 --> 00:44:25.519
Even though the helicopter, do they know that the helicopter
986
00:44:25.559 --> 00:44:26.380
was fake by now?
987
00:44:26.420 --> 00:44:27.320
They interviewed the guy.
988
00:44:27.340 --> 00:44:30.260
Geez, old Pete. They interviewed the pilot. Some of the
989
00:44:30.300 --> 00:44:32.219
information was- And the other deputies. Right.
990
00:44:32.480 --> 00:44:34.179
Our marshals even said they didn't hear anything.
991
00:44:34.380 --> 00:44:36.519
And as we know, some of the information was false
992
00:44:36.539 --> 00:44:39.500
or unproven, but it shaped the plan drawn up during
993
00:44:39.519 --> 00:44:42.019
the night of the 21st of August and the following morning.
994
00:44:42.940 --> 00:44:45.739
Special rules said that before any surrender announcement, if an
995
00:44:45.800 --> 00:44:48.659
adult male was seen with a weapon, deadly force can
996
00:44:48.800 --> 00:44:51.409
and should be employed, as long as a shot could
997
00:44:51.429 --> 00:44:55.329
be taken without endangering the children. After the surrender announcement,
998
00:44:55.670 --> 00:44:58.119
the same instruction applied to any armed adult. who was
999
00:44:58.199 --> 00:45:02.469
not trying to give up. Animals that compromise an agent's position, murdered,
1000
00:45:03.070 --> 00:45:06.369
can be. Everyone else remained covered by the FBI's usual policy.
1001
00:45:06.889 --> 00:45:10.010
The most important change was contained in three words, can
1002
00:45:10.510 --> 00:45:13.909
and should. They did not simply allow an agent to
1003
00:45:13.949 --> 00:45:15.139
fire when a threat appeared.
1004
00:45:15.159 --> 00:45:16.300
They basically said, do it.
1005
00:45:16.440 --> 00:45:17.219
They told him that if he.
1006
00:45:17.199 --> 00:45:19.380
Saw an armed adult male and could take the shot
1007
00:45:19.420 --> 00:45:23.059
without hitting the child, get it done, son. Since Randy
1008
00:45:23.079 --> 00:45:25.699
and Harris were two and a half routinely carried guns
1009
00:45:25.860 --> 00:45:28.059
all around their property at every hour of the day.
1010
00:45:28.639 --> 00:45:30.760
The rule made it possible to shoot either man without
1011
00:45:30.800 --> 00:45:33.300
first seeing him aim, fire, or even threaten anybody, which
1012
00:45:33.320 --> 00:45:35.960
is bullshit. It also allowed that shot to happen before
1013
00:45:35.980 --> 00:45:38.840
the FBI can even announce that he is present or
1014
00:45:39.059 --> 00:45:41.920
order the family to surrender. You just do it. Mums
1015
00:45:41.940 --> 00:45:45.260
the word. Responsibility for the wording became a fight of
1016
00:45:45.320 --> 00:45:49.820
its own. FBI Commander Eugene Glenn, Marshal Service Official Wayne Smith,
1017
00:45:49.840 --> 00:45:53.340
they call him Duke, Hostage Rescue Team Commander Richard Rogers,
1018
00:45:54.050 --> 00:45:56.659
and senior FBI officials in Washington all took part in
1019
00:45:56.679 --> 00:46:01.179
discussions as the plan moved between Idaho and headquarters. Rogers,
1020
00:46:01.400 --> 00:46:03.679
he was tied to the change that strengthened the language
1021
00:46:03.719 --> 00:46:06.579
from deadly force to can be used to can and
1022
00:46:06.719 --> 00:46:11.039
should be used. Larry Potts, an assistant FBI director at headquarters,
1023
00:46:11.920 --> 00:46:14.519
and his deputy Danny Colson, they were involved in reviewing
1024
00:46:14.539 --> 00:46:17.599
the operation, but later accounts conflicted over exactly what they
1025
00:46:17.639 --> 00:46:20.539
approved and when they even knew the final wording had changed.
1026
00:46:21.599 --> 00:46:23.260
The order reached the men on the mountain without any
1027
00:46:23.300 --> 00:46:26.739
of those arguments attached. Snipers remembered hearing that any armed
1028
00:46:26.760 --> 00:46:28.800
adult male could be taken out if the shot did
1029
00:46:28.840 --> 00:46:29.809
not put a child at risk.
1030
00:46:29.909 --> 00:46:30.789
That's all they need to know.
1031
00:46:31.190 --> 00:46:34.010
Some later described it as a green light, baby. Others
1032
00:46:34.050 --> 00:46:36.590
said that they understood that the FBI's ordinary deadly force
1033
00:46:36.610 --> 00:46:39.750
policy still applied and that they would not shoot someone
1034
00:46:39.829 --> 00:46:42.050
merely just for carrying a weapon. You would think anybody
1035
00:46:42.070 --> 00:46:45.190
with a reasonable fucking brain wouldn't anyways. The fact that
1036
00:46:45.250 --> 00:46:47.889
trained agents came away with different understandings showed how dangerous
1037
00:46:47.909 --> 00:46:51.489
the wording was before anyone fired. There was another problem.
1038
00:46:52.199 --> 00:46:55.559
It was inside the command post. Negotiators and tactical teams,
1039
00:46:55.579 --> 00:46:59.619
they were working from different assumptions. A negotiator normally needed
1040
00:46:59.659 --> 00:47:02.639
time to build contact, calm the people inside down, and
1041
00:47:02.679 --> 00:47:05.500
find a way to bring them out. The hostage rescue
1042
00:47:05.519 --> 00:47:08.070
team was being sent close to the cabin under instructions
1043
00:47:08.110 --> 00:47:10.389
built around the belief that the armed adults could already
1044
00:47:10.449 --> 00:47:10.909
be shot.
1045
00:47:10.949 --> 00:47:11.650
That's crazy.
1046
00:47:12.289 --> 00:47:14.349
Nobody had yet told Randy that the FBI was there.
1047
00:47:14.710 --> 00:47:17.289
Nobody had ordered Harris to put down his rifle. Nobody
1048
00:47:17.309 --> 00:47:19.389
had announced that the family was surrounded or even offered
1049
00:47:19.449 --> 00:47:23.440
a clear path to surrender. Even so, sniper teams, they
1050
00:47:23.460 --> 00:47:26.570
began climbing into position overlooking the cabin on August 22nd.
1051
00:47:27.489 --> 00:47:31.929
Among them, Lon Horochi, a West Point graduate.
1052
00:47:32.030 --> 00:47:33.449
Horochi? Horochi, yeah.
1053
00:47:33.710 --> 00:47:37.349
A West Point graduate and an experienced FBI sniper. From
1054
00:47:37.389 --> 00:47:38.989
his position in the woods, he could see parts of
1055
00:47:39.030 --> 00:47:41.750
the cabin, the yard, and small shed where Sammy's body
1056
00:47:41.789 --> 00:47:45.199
had been placed. Horochi, he had been told that the
1057
00:47:45.260 --> 00:47:47.199
armed men on the property had already killed a marshal
1058
00:47:47.219 --> 00:47:50.639
and would likely shoot again. He'd also been given rules
1059
00:47:50.679 --> 00:47:52.710
that treated the sight of a gun as enough reason
1060
00:47:52.889 --> 00:47:56.949
to pull the trigger. And by late afternoon, Randy, Harris,
1061
00:47:57.150 --> 00:47:59.590
and Sarah, they stepped into the open near the shed,
1062
00:48:00.309 --> 00:48:04.730
unaware that an FBI sniper had his little crosshairs right
1063
00:48:04.849 --> 00:48:06.539
on him, watching them through a scope.
1064
00:48:07.619 --> 00:48:11.139
Shortly before 6 that evening, Horiyuchi, he watched three people
1065
00:48:11.179 --> 00:48:12.639
come out of the cabin and move toward the shed.
1066
00:48:14.420 --> 00:48:17.070
Shortly before 6 that evening, Horiyuchi... He didn't know who
1067
00:48:17.110 --> 00:48:19.070
these people were, but he could see two adult males
1068
00:48:19.110 --> 00:48:21.190
and a teenage girl. At least one of the men
1069
00:48:21.230 --> 00:48:24.489
carried a long gun. An FBI helicopter was also somewhere
1070
00:48:24.530 --> 00:48:26.739
near the mountain. Horiyuchi said the armed men looked toward
1071
00:48:26.760 --> 00:48:28.940
the sky and began raising his rifle as though he might.
1072
00:48:28.840 --> 00:48:30.760
Fire at it. I don't know about that.
1073
00:48:31.179 --> 00:48:32.099
That man was Randy.
1074
00:48:32.320 --> 00:48:34.159
Maybe if he had a scope on it. He just
1075
00:48:34.199 --> 00:48:34.739
wanted to look.
1076
00:48:35.079 --> 00:48:37.739
What Randy was actually doing is his mains disputed, obviously.
1077
00:48:37.960 --> 00:48:39.590
He said he was lifting the latch on the shed
1078
00:48:39.619 --> 00:48:41.809
so he could visit his son's body. Not preparing to.
1079
00:48:41.789 --> 00:48:42.570
Shoot at a helicopter.
1080
00:48:43.659 --> 00:48:46.639
Horiyuchi places crosshairs on Randy and fired from roughly 200
1081
00:48:46.639 --> 00:48:47.079
yards away.
1082
00:48:47.219 --> 00:48:47.719
Oh, shit.
1083
00:48:48.280 --> 00:48:50.539
Randy moved as the trigger was pulled. The bullet entered
1084
00:48:50.579 --> 00:48:52.639
his back and passed out beneath his right armpit instead
1085
00:48:52.659 --> 00:48:57.500
of striking his spine. Horiyuchi initially believed he missed. Randy, Harris,
1086
00:48:57.559 --> 00:48:59.639
and Sarah had not heard a surrendered man or any warning.
1087
00:48:59.960 --> 00:49:00.260
Right.
1088
00:49:00.559 --> 00:49:02.699
That bullet hitting Randy was the first indication they had
1089
00:49:02.760 --> 00:49:04.940
that FBI snipers were positioned around the cabin. They said,
1090
00:49:04.960 --> 00:49:07.800
don't go outside now. They dropped behind the shed and
1091
00:49:07.840 --> 00:49:10.699
stayed there for somewhere between 10 and 20 seconds. Randy,
1092
00:49:10.719 --> 00:49:13.030
he was bleeding but could still move. When the three
1093
00:49:13.050 --> 00:49:14.590
of them broke from cover, they ran for the cabin.
1094
00:49:14.610 --> 00:49:17.809
Horiyuchi tracked them through his scope. He saw Randy and
1095
00:49:17.829 --> 00:49:20.409
Sarah reach the porch and pass through the door. Harris,
1096
00:49:20.449 --> 00:49:23.409
he came behind them carrying a rifle. Horiyuchi later said
1097
00:49:23.449 --> 00:49:25.019
that he believed Harris was the same man he had
1098
00:49:25.059 --> 00:49:28.059
seen raising the gun toward the helicopter. Although his testimony
1099
00:49:28.079 --> 00:49:29.980
about whether he could distinguish Harris from Randy was not
1100
00:49:30.019 --> 00:49:34.300
always consistent. Harris, he slowed as he reached the porch
1101
00:49:34.340 --> 00:49:36.090
and glanced toward the ridge where the sniper was hidden.
1102
00:49:36.909 --> 00:49:39.489
Horiyuchi fired again roughly 20 seconds after his first shot.
1103
00:49:40.389 --> 00:49:42.590
Harris was almost behind the door when the bullet arrived.
1104
00:49:43.230 --> 00:49:46.039
It passed through a glass pane, entered the cabin, struck
1105
00:49:46.119 --> 00:49:47.679
Vicki in the head as she stood on the other
1106
00:49:47.719 --> 00:49:49.360
side holding 10-month-old Elisheba.
1107
00:49:49.599 --> 00:49:50.280
That sucks.
1108
00:49:50.800 --> 00:49:52.059
The round continued through her.
1109
00:49:52.079 --> 00:49:52.599
Damn.
1110
00:49:53.159 --> 00:49:56.179
It hit Harris in the chest and arm. Vicki, she
1111
00:49:56.199 --> 00:49:59.239
died immediately. Harris fell inside the cabin with a serious
1112
00:49:59.280 --> 00:50:02.610
wound that would continue bleeding throughout the siege. Oriuchi, he
1113
00:50:02.630 --> 00:50:05.190
had not intended to shoot Vicki, obviously. He said the
1114
00:50:05.230 --> 00:50:06.190
open door blocked his view.
1115
00:50:06.210 --> 00:50:07.590
He should have never fucking shot.
1116
00:50:07.630 --> 00:50:08.889
She was standing behind it, right?
1117
00:50:08.969 --> 00:50:10.530
That's what they told you. Idiot.
1118
00:50:10.949 --> 00:50:12.849
Randy and Sarah later said Vicky had come toward the
1119
00:50:12.869 --> 00:50:14.760
porch after the first shot and called out, raising the
1120
00:50:14.780 --> 00:50:17.199
possibility that Horiyuchi could have and should have seen her.
1121
00:50:17.320 --> 00:50:18.079
Obviously he did.
1122
00:50:18.980 --> 00:50:21.400
Sarah also remembered the curtain over the door's glass being opened.
1123
00:50:21.780 --> 00:50:24.000
Other testimony challenged whether Vicky had ever moved far enough
1124
00:50:24.079 --> 00:50:28.099
outside to become visible from Horiyuchi's angle. And Horiyuchi maintained
1125
00:50:28.119 --> 00:50:31.059
that he could not see through the glass. Disagreement was
1126
00:50:31.099 --> 00:50:34.369
never completely resolved, obviously. It was clear that he fired
1127
00:50:34.409 --> 00:50:36.309
at a moving man running through a doorway without knowing
1128
00:50:36.329 --> 00:50:39.030
whether anyone stood behind it, and they specifically said, don't
1129
00:50:39.070 --> 00:50:40.130
harm the kids. How do you know if the kid's
1130
00:50:40.150 --> 00:50:43.900
not running fucking around? Horuchi later said Harris appeared to
1131
00:50:43.929 --> 00:50:45.920
be holding the door or moving someone aside just before
1132
00:50:45.940 --> 00:50:46.260
the shot.
1133
00:50:46.659 --> 00:50:47.840
Right, so someone was there.
1134
00:50:48.019 --> 00:50:49.699
So if he thought another person might be there, that
1135
00:50:49.739 --> 00:50:52.739
made firing even more harder to defend. The reason for
1136
00:50:52.760 --> 00:50:55.780
shooting Harris was also questioned. After the first bullet, nobody
1137
00:50:55.800 --> 00:50:59.099
from the cabin fired back. Randy, Harris, and Sarah then
1138
00:50:59.139 --> 00:51:01.760
ran for shelter. The helicopter had.
1139
00:51:01.699 --> 00:51:02.139
Not been hit.
1140
00:51:02.659 --> 00:51:04.800
Horiuchi later acknowledged that he did not fire the second
1141
00:51:04.820 --> 00:51:06.679
round because he believed Harris would shoot at it once
1142
00:51:06.719 --> 00:51:09.300
he entered the cabin. No one identified the FBI's presence
1143
00:51:09.360 --> 00:51:11.300
or ordered the group to surrender during the time between
1144
00:51:11.320 --> 00:51:14.940
the two shots. The Justice Department later concluded that Horiuchi's
1145
00:51:14.960 --> 00:51:17.820
first shot could be considered reasonable if he truly believed
1146
00:51:17.840 --> 00:51:20.489
Randy was about to fire at the helicopter. Second one,
1147
00:51:20.530 --> 00:51:23.929
that's different. Harris, he was retreating, not shooting, and the
1148
00:51:23.989 --> 00:51:25.369
FBI had time to issue a warning.
1149
00:51:25.389 --> 00:51:25.969
They didn't.
1150
00:51:26.429 --> 00:51:29.030
Investigators, they called the failure to demand surrender before firing
1151
00:51:29.050 --> 00:51:32.170
again inexcusable. Included that the second shot did not meet
1152
00:51:32.210 --> 00:51:33.329
the standard required.
1153
00:51:33.010 --> 00:51:34.989
For deadly force. Just fucking stupid.
1154
00:51:35.380 --> 00:51:38.400
The Senate investigation went even further. Finding that the shot
1155
00:51:38.440 --> 00:51:42.360
violated both normal FBI policy and the Constitution. Although one
1156
00:51:42.400 --> 00:51:44.039
member of the committee disagreed with that conclusion.
1157
00:51:44.119 --> 00:51:44.500
Oh, fuck off.
1158
00:51:44.519 --> 00:51:48.679
None of those findings mattered inside the cabin, though. Randy,
1159
00:51:48.739 --> 00:51:51.769
he was wounded. Harris, he was damn near dying.
1160
00:51:52.010 --> 00:51:52.909
Vicki, she's dead.
1161
00:51:53.789 --> 00:51:57.880
Laying near the doorway. Elisheba, she survived only inches away. Sarah,
1162
00:51:58.139 --> 00:52:00.320
she watched her brother die the day before, announcing her
1163
00:52:00.340 --> 00:52:03.730
mother killed right in front of her. Outside, Horiuchi reported
1164
00:52:03.750 --> 00:52:05.429
they hit fire twice and believed he had struck at
1165
00:52:05.449 --> 00:52:08.429
least one armed man. The agents, they heard a woman
1166
00:52:08.489 --> 00:52:12.309
screaming after the second shot. They didn't know why. Nobody
1167
00:52:12.349 --> 00:52:14.409
in command understood that Vicki was dead, and when the
1168
00:52:14.519 --> 00:52:17.639
FBI finally began calling toward the cabin, negotiators would speak
1169
00:52:17.679 --> 00:52:20.900
to her as though she were still alive. The family
1170
00:52:20.920 --> 00:52:23.820
heard those calls while sitting beside her body. Whatever chance
1171
00:52:23.840 --> 00:52:25.940
the government had of earning their trust had disappeared with
1172
00:52:25.960 --> 00:52:26.920
the bullet through the door.
1173
00:52:26.940 --> 00:52:28.639
You ain't kidding. You fucking idiots.
1174
00:52:28.900 --> 00:52:32.400
Yeah, well, the FBI began calling toward the cabin through loudspeakers,
1175
00:52:33.099 --> 00:52:35.219
asking Randy and Harris to surrender and telling Vicki to
1176
00:52:35.260 --> 00:52:38.960
send the children out. Negotiators did not even know she's dead,
1177
00:52:39.019 --> 00:52:43.449
as we said. Family didn't even answer. Some messages sounded
1178
00:52:43.489 --> 00:52:45.309
painfully casual under the circumstances.
1179
00:52:45.829 --> 00:52:48.710
Come on, Vicki, it's not that serious. Just send the
1180
00:52:48.730 --> 00:52:49.309
kids out.
1181
00:52:49.349 --> 00:52:51.469
Right, including comments about meals and the weather.
1182
00:52:51.690 --> 00:52:52.170
Oh, jeez.
1183
00:52:53.360 --> 00:52:55.659
With others warned that the adults would be held responsible
1184
00:52:55.699 --> 00:52:59.820
if the children were harmed. From inside, the Weavers heard
1185
00:52:59.880 --> 00:53:01.969
agents reputantly call the name of a woman whose body
1186
00:53:02.010 --> 00:53:05.469
was lying beside them. The FBI believed silence was part
1187
00:53:05.489 --> 00:53:08.389
of the family's resistance. Randy and Sarah heard it as
1188
00:53:08.469 --> 00:53:10.670
proof that the people outside either did not know what
1189
00:53:10.710 --> 00:53:13.809
their sniper had done, or they were pretending not to know.
1190
00:53:15.050 --> 00:53:17.980
Harris' condition worsened as the wound in his chest continued
1191
00:53:18.000 --> 00:53:21.619
to bleed. The family had little medication or medical equipment.
1192
00:53:22.230 --> 00:53:24.349
And no safe way to get them to a hospital. Obviously,
1193
00:53:24.369 --> 00:53:27.710
they're surrounded by the cops. There is a safe way
1194
00:53:27.730 --> 00:53:28.550
to give them to the cops.
1195
00:53:28.590 --> 00:53:28.800
Right.
1196
00:53:29.300 --> 00:53:32.159
They also had Sammy's body in the shed. Vicky's inside
1197
00:53:32.179 --> 00:53:36.119
the cabin during the August heat. Randy tried to comfort
1198
00:53:36.139 --> 00:53:38.639
the children while dealing with his own wound, but there
1199
00:53:38.679 --> 00:53:41.719
was no real plan beyond refusing to come out. Beyond
1200
00:53:41.739 --> 00:53:45.420
the mountain, the operations were becoming a national story. Reporters
1201
00:53:45.519 --> 00:53:49.269
upon reporters filled the roads around Naples, while armed supporters,
1202
00:53:49.369 --> 00:53:54.590
white separatists, anti-government activists, and curious locos. They all gathered around.
1203
00:53:54.929 --> 00:53:55.349
Geez.
1204
00:53:55.949 --> 00:53:59.190
Others feared another gunfight if anyone tried to storm the cabin. Some,
1205
00:53:59.349 --> 00:54:01.300
they shouted at the agents and accused the government of
1206
00:54:01.340 --> 00:54:05.559
murdering the family. The FBI brought in armored vehicles, surveillance equipment,
1207
00:54:05.719 --> 00:54:08.400
enough firepower to overwhelm the property, and probably all Idaho.
1208
00:54:09.440 --> 00:54:11.659
But a direct assault still risked killing the children like
1209
00:54:11.679 --> 00:54:15.110
they cared now. Inside the command post, doubts were growing
1210
00:54:15.360 --> 00:54:19.449
about the special shooting rules. 26th of August, the FBI
1211
00:54:19.469 --> 00:54:22.590
withdrew them and returned it to its normal deadly force policy. Oh,
1212
00:54:22.650 --> 00:54:25.670
fucking time. But that could not undo the shots already fired.
1213
00:54:26.789 --> 00:54:29.389
First real break came when the commanders agreed to use
1214
00:54:29.409 --> 00:54:31.489
civilians the Weavers might trust.
1215
00:54:32.449 --> 00:54:35.130
James Gritz, he's.
1216
00:54:35.050 --> 00:54:39.340
A retired army officer, former presidential candidate, with a following
1217
00:54:39.559 --> 00:54:40.860
among anti-government groups.
1218
00:54:42.059 --> 00:54:42.440
Offered easy.
1219
00:54:42.519 --> 00:54:44.460
Anybody could be a former presidential candidate.
1220
00:54:44.480 --> 00:54:45.880
He was like, I'll offer to help, he said.
1221
00:54:46.690 --> 00:54:49.389
He was joined by a retired Phoenix cop, Jack McLam,
1222
00:54:49.769 --> 00:54:53.429
and then later by Jackie Brown, a family friend. Unlike
1223
00:54:53.449 --> 00:54:55.679
the voices coming through the loudspeakers, these were people Randy
1224
00:54:55.719 --> 00:54:59.179
recognized and he believed might understand him. Grits, he climbed
1225
00:54:59.219 --> 00:55:01.559
toward the cabin without a gun and began talking face
1226
00:55:01.579 --> 00:55:05.179
to face. 28th of August, Randy finally told him that
1227
00:55:05.219 --> 00:55:07.619
Vicki had been killed. That is the first time the
1228
00:55:07.679 --> 00:55:11.090
FBI learned. with certainty that a sniper's bullet had struck
1229
00:55:11.489 --> 00:55:15.869
an innocent person. Negotiating continued while Gritz carried messages between
1230
00:55:15.909 --> 00:55:20.389
Randy and the commanders below. Harris needed treatment first. By then,
1231
00:55:20.429 --> 00:55:22.289
his wound had become so faint that he had reportedly
1232
00:55:22.329 --> 00:55:23.789
asked Randy, Just kill him.
1233
00:55:24.389 --> 00:55:25.329
Please kill me, buddy.
1234
00:55:25.349 --> 00:55:28.269
I don't want to remain trapped and suffer and die
1235
00:55:28.489 --> 00:55:32.639
or go to jail. Gritz and McLam convinced him that
1236
00:55:32.659 --> 00:55:34.880
the surrender did not mean that he would be executed
1237
00:55:34.960 --> 00:55:35.860
once he reached the agent's.
1238
00:55:37.639 --> 00:55:38.599
I hope not. Right.
1239
00:55:39.099 --> 00:55:41.300
August 30th, Harris was carried down the mountain on a
1240
00:55:41.320 --> 00:55:44.099
stretcher and flown to a hospital in Spokane. Vicki's body
1241
00:55:44.300 --> 00:55:46.820
removed as well, ending more than a week in which
1242
00:55:46.860 --> 00:55:48.860
her children had lived within feet of her remains.
1243
00:55:48.880 --> 00:55:51.280
That's crazy. After like two days.
1244
00:55:51.860 --> 00:55:54.019
Randy still feared that he would be shot or that
1245
00:55:54.039 --> 00:55:57.449
the government would take his daughters away. Sarah became central
1246
00:55:57.489 --> 00:56:00.250
to the final decision. Grits worked out terms meant to
1247
00:56:00.289 --> 00:56:02.829
assure the family that everyone would come down safely and
1248
00:56:02.849 --> 00:56:04.889
that the children would be replaced with relatives rather than
1249
00:56:04.949 --> 00:56:08.980
treated as prisoners. 31st of August, Randy stepped away from
1250
00:56:09.000 --> 00:56:10.760
the cabin carrying a 10-month-old Alicia.
1251
00:56:10.800 --> 00:56:16.099
Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Right. Older like Simba.
1252
00:56:16.920 --> 00:56:20.099
Sarah, 10-year-old Rachel, walked behind him with Grits and McLam.
1253
00:56:20.119 --> 00:56:20.619
Beside him, man.
1254
00:56:20.920 --> 00:56:21.099
Right.
1255
00:56:22.099 --> 00:56:25.559
Walked beside them with Grits and McLam. Snipers watched from
1256
00:56:25.599 --> 00:56:29.090
the trees. Agents waited below. The crowd outside the barricades
1257
00:56:29.130 --> 00:56:31.969
fell quiet as the remaining Weavers reached the Federal line
1258
00:56:32.170 --> 00:56:36.670
without another shot fired. Randy arrested immediately and flown to Boise.
1259
00:56:37.369 --> 00:56:39.670
Harris remained under guard and at the hospital.
1260
00:56:39.809 --> 00:56:40.389
What did he do?
1261
00:56:40.409 --> 00:56:42.570
Well, he did shoot.
1262
00:56:42.750 --> 00:56:43.610
He did kill the guy.
1263
00:56:44.610 --> 00:56:46.389
While the three girls were released to relatives.
1264
00:56:47.449 --> 00:56:50.170
After 11 days, the mountain held the bodies of a mother,
1265
00:56:51.050 --> 00:56:54.960
her son, and a deputy marshal. But no hostages and
1266
00:56:55.000 --> 00:56:58.000
no fortress filled with tunnels or explosives were ever found.
1267
00:56:58.860 --> 00:57:01.820
The government, they now had Randy Weaver and Kevin Harris
1268
00:57:01.840 --> 00:57:02.300
in custody.
1269
00:57:02.860 --> 00:57:04.889
And they were like, Okay, so they didn't do what
1270
00:57:04.909 --> 00:57:07.579
you guys are saying. Right. Just normal fucking mountain men.
1271
00:57:08.599 --> 00:57:11.019
Prosecutors began building a case that blamed them for nearly
1272
00:57:11.219 --> 00:57:12.199
everything that happened.
1273
00:57:12.619 --> 00:57:13.420
They had to do something.
1274
00:57:14.159 --> 00:57:17.239
Once that case reached the courtroom, the agents, the reports,
1275
00:57:17.980 --> 00:57:20.860
the shootings, the missing pieces of evidence would no longer
1276
00:57:20.880 --> 00:57:22.920
be protected by the woods around Ruby Ridge.
1277
00:57:24.579 --> 00:57:27.139
That federal case that reached Boise in April of 1993
1278
00:57:27.139 --> 00:57:30.519
went far beyond the two shotguns and miscourt date. Randy
1279
00:57:30.539 --> 00:57:34.090
and Harris, they faced 10 counts involving conspiracy. murder, assault,
1280
00:57:34.380 --> 00:57:37.860
resistant arrest, gun violations, and crimes committed while Randy was
1281
00:57:37.920 --> 00:57:38.500
free on bail.
1282
00:57:38.820 --> 00:57:39.099
Wow.
1283
00:57:39.659 --> 00:57:42.059
Prosecutors argued the Weavers had been preparing for war against
1284
00:57:42.099 --> 00:57:45.139
the government for years. That confrontation in the woods was
1285
00:57:45.159 --> 00:57:46.159
the result of that plan.
1286
00:57:46.380 --> 00:57:48.780
Well, they were, but I don't think they were preparing
1287
00:57:48.800 --> 00:57:53.320
to initiate the war. They really didn't. Right.
1288
00:57:54.079 --> 00:57:56.119
Harris, he was accused of murdering Deegan while Randy, he
1289
00:57:56.139 --> 00:57:59.010
was held responsible through the alleged conspiracy, even though he
1290
00:57:59.070 --> 00:58:01.110
never even fired the fatal shot or any shot, I
1291
00:58:01.110 --> 00:58:01.369
don't think.
1292
00:58:01.389 --> 00:58:01.489
Right.
1293
00:58:02.510 --> 00:58:05.989
Gary Spence represented Randy, and David Nevin, he took Harris' case.
1294
00:58:06.829 --> 00:58:08.769
Neither lawyer had to convince the jury that Randy's beliefs
1295
00:58:08.789 --> 00:58:13.150
were admirable. Spence openly rejected his racism and religious extremism.
1296
00:58:13.989 --> 00:58:15.849
His argument was that ugly beliefs did not give the
1297
00:58:15.889 --> 00:58:19.469
government permission to manufacture evidence, hide mistakes, or shoot people
1298
00:58:19.489 --> 00:58:23.099
without cause. As the trial continued, the prosecution's clean version
1299
00:58:23.119 --> 00:58:24.460
of Ruby Ridge began breaking apart.
1300
00:58:25.019 --> 00:58:26.280
Almost instantly, I bet, dude.
1301
00:58:26.599 --> 00:58:29.309
Witnesses contradicted one another about who fired first at the Y.
1302
00:58:30.079 --> 00:58:32.360
The gun evidence could not prove the government's timeline, and
1303
00:58:32.400 --> 00:58:34.469
its own expert pointed toward Cooper as the person who
1304
00:58:34.510 --> 00:58:36.150
fired the fatal bullet into Sammy's back.
1305
00:58:36.210 --> 00:58:36.550
Yep.
1306
00:58:37.750 --> 00:58:40.030
The claim that the Weavers had shot at the television helicopter,
1307
00:58:40.050 --> 00:58:42.289
they fell apart when evidence showed no shots had fired.
1308
00:58:43.349 --> 00:58:46.780
Fadley's testimony exposed unanswered questions about who first suggested cutting
1309
00:58:46.800 --> 00:58:49.559
down the shotguns, and how his payment as an informant worked.
1310
00:58:50.539 --> 00:58:52.960
You only get paid if you provide a solution. Exactly.
1311
00:58:53.599 --> 00:58:56.659
FBI reports and interview notes were produced late, sometimes only
1312
00:58:56.719 --> 00:59:00.739
after witnesses had already testified. Shh. Judge Edward Lodge, he
1313
00:59:00.780 --> 00:59:04.170
repeatedly criticized the government for mishandling evidence and ignoring court orders.
1314
00:59:04.210 --> 00:59:07.650
You guys are supposed to be the tip-top at this shit. Then, Horiyuchi,
1315
00:59:07.670 --> 00:59:09.329
he took a stand with the cabin door sitting in
1316
00:59:09.349 --> 00:59:13.829
the courtroom. Well, damn. Under questioning, he admitted firing at
1317
00:59:13.849 --> 00:59:16.269
Harris and Harris ran for cover, knowing the open door
1318
00:59:16.349 --> 00:59:19.199
could hide someone. The jury, they could see the bullet
1319
00:59:19.239 --> 00:59:21.510
hole and hear how the round passed through Vicki before
1320
00:59:21.570 --> 00:59:25.139
striking its intended target. By the time the prosecution rested,
1321
00:59:25.280 --> 00:59:27.219
Spence believed the government had done more damage to its
1322
00:59:27.260 --> 00:59:28.920
own case than any defense witness could.
1323
00:59:28.960 --> 00:59:35.369
You ain't fucking kidding. Right. Anybody could have defended this case, probably. Well,
1324
00:59:36.769 --> 00:59:38.250
pretty much. Probably. Right.
1325
00:59:39.309 --> 00:59:41.269
He called nobody on the witness stand.
1326
00:59:41.289 --> 00:59:43.469
Why? He just let these guys talk. Right.
1327
00:59:44.050 --> 00:59:46.750
Nevin, he presented Harris' shooting of Deegan as self-defense and
1328
00:59:46.789 --> 00:59:49.849
the defense of Sammy, arguing that Harris fired only after
1329
00:59:49.889 --> 00:59:51.909
the camouflaged men killed the dog and shot the boy.
1330
00:59:52.050 --> 00:59:54.690
And plus, you can't charge him with killing a federal
1331
00:59:54.730 --> 00:59:56.730
agent because, I mean, I guess you could try, but
1332
00:59:56.809 --> 00:59:57.289
they didn't know.
1333
00:59:57.389 --> 00:59:58.309
He didn't identify him.
1334
00:59:58.369 --> 00:59:58.570
Right.
1335
00:59:58.750 --> 00:59:58.929
Right.
1336
00:59:59.940 --> 01:00:04.090
July 8th, the jury rejected nearly the entire prosecution. Harris
1337
01:00:04.130 --> 01:00:05.710
was acquitted of every single charge.
1338
01:00:05.730 --> 01:00:06.210
I bet.
1339
01:00:06.630 --> 01:00:09.230
Randy was cleared of the murder, conspiracy assault, resistant arrest,
1340
01:00:09.269 --> 01:00:10.550
and the original gun violations.
1341
01:00:10.630 --> 01:00:11.050
Oh, shit.
1342
01:00:11.369 --> 01:00:13.349
The jury did find him guilty, only a failing to
1343
01:00:13.409 --> 01:00:15.250
appear and commit an offense while on release.
1344
01:00:15.269 --> 01:00:18.570
There you go. Lodge later threw out the second conviction. Yeah.
1345
01:00:18.719 --> 01:00:20.920
Leaving the missed court appearance as the only count that survived.
1346
01:00:21.099 --> 01:00:21.320
Right.
1347
01:00:21.800 --> 01:00:23.800
Randy, he received 18 months in jail. Really?
1348
01:00:24.559 --> 01:00:27.400
There. Oh, come on. Yeah, that's fucked up.
1349
01:00:27.440 --> 01:00:28.679
We're missing a court date, bros.
1350
01:00:29.630 --> 01:00:30.550
And a $ 10, 000 fine.
1351
01:00:31.150 --> 01:00:32.590
But he already served most of that time and was
1352
01:00:32.630 --> 01:00:34.570
released in December of 93. Look at that shit.
1353
01:00:35.409 --> 01:00:36.659
It's time for Christmas. Right.
1354
01:00:36.880 --> 01:00:38.340
Well, happy Christmas, huh?
1355
01:00:38.420 --> 01:00:38.699
Right.
1356
01:00:39.039 --> 01:00:41.119
The verdict did not end Ruby Ridge, though. It moved
1357
01:00:41.139 --> 01:00:43.099
the investigation from the people inside the cabin to the
1358
01:00:43.159 --> 01:00:44.050
agency surrounding it.
1359
01:00:44.400 --> 01:00:46.800
Now they can file wrongful deaths and all that good thing.
1360
01:00:47.840 --> 01:00:50.619
A Justice Department task force spent months reviewing the ATF case,
1361
01:00:50.739 --> 01:00:54.500
the Marshal Service operation, the sniper rules, the shootings, the prosecution,
1362
01:00:54.860 --> 01:00:57.500
and the handling of its evidence. Its 542-page report found
1363
01:00:57.519 --> 01:01:01.239
no proof The marshals went up to the mountain planning
1364
01:01:01.280 --> 01:01:02.480
an ambush, but never said they did.
1365
01:01:02.559 --> 01:01:02.820
Right.
1366
01:01:03.019 --> 01:01:05.050
And no proof that Sammy had been deliberately targeted.
1367
01:01:05.070 --> 01:01:05.719
Didn't say he was.
1368
01:01:05.780 --> 01:01:06.050
Right.
1369
01:01:06.690 --> 01:01:09.289
Also found that prosecutors had made the arrest harder, that
1370
01:01:09.309 --> 01:01:12.489
the FBI special shooting rules violated normal policy, and that
1371
01:01:12.530 --> 01:01:15.650
Horiuchi's second shot did not meet the legal standard for
1372
01:01:15.670 --> 01:01:16.190
deadly force.
1373
01:01:16.230 --> 01:01:16.469
Nope.
1374
01:01:17.409 --> 01:01:20.389
Senate hearings they followed in 1995, placing agents and senior
1375
01:01:20.409 --> 01:01:22.989
officials before cameras to answer for decisions that had once
1376
01:01:23.050 --> 01:01:29.449
remained inside private reports. FBI Director Louis Freer. He admitted
1377
01:01:29.489 --> 01:01:31.750
that Ruby Ridge had been a series of terribly flawed
1378
01:01:31.809 --> 01:01:35.750
operations and said much of the criticism was justified. Twelve
1379
01:01:35.869 --> 01:01:38.949
FBI employees received some form of punishment or official criticism,
1380
01:01:39.570 --> 01:01:42.329
although Horiyuchi was not disciplined for killing Vicki, of course.
1381
01:01:43.130 --> 01:01:46.170
The damage to the FBI grew worse when E. Michael Cahill,
1382
01:01:47.030 --> 01:01:49.469
as a senior official, he admitted ordering the destruction of
1383
01:01:49.510 --> 01:01:52.010
an internal report critical of the Bureau's actions and then
1384
01:01:52.090 --> 01:01:56.739
lying about it. He pleaded guilty of obstruction of justice
1385
01:01:56.760 --> 01:01:58.260
and received 18 months in federal prison.
1386
01:01:58.260 --> 01:01:59.800
18 months, that's it?
1387
01:01:59.980 --> 01:02:02.219
He got 18 months for that, but Randy Weaver got
1388
01:02:02.219 --> 01:02:03.639
18 months for fucking failing to appear.
1389
01:02:03.659 --> 01:02:07.579
Right. Are you fucking kidding me? Holy shit.
1390
01:02:09.079 --> 01:02:11.840
The Weavers, they did file a wrongful death suit, and
1391
01:02:11.909 --> 01:02:13.949
in 1995, the government agreed to pay $ 1 million to
1392
01:02:14.389 --> 01:02:16.329
each of Randy's three surviving daughters and $ 100, 000 to Randy.
1393
01:02:16.550 --> 01:02:17.469
There you go.
1394
01:02:18.070 --> 01:02:20.570
The settlement included no former admission of wrongdoing, though.
1395
01:02:20.630 --> 01:02:23.309
Whatever. Harris, he later received $ 380, 000.
1396
01:02:22.909 --> 01:02:26.650
Damn right. Idaho, they tried to bring the one criminal
1397
01:02:26.670 --> 01:02:30.510
case that federal prosecutors had declined, though. In 1997, Boundary
1398
01:02:30.530 --> 01:02:35.420
County Prosecutor Denise Woodbury, she charged Horiuchi with involuntary manslaughter
1399
01:02:35.440 --> 01:02:37.900
for firing through the doorway before determining who stood behind it.
1400
01:02:38.000 --> 01:02:39.300
I don't think you can, though. I don't think I
1401
01:02:39.300 --> 01:02:39.840
have immunity.
1402
01:02:40.260 --> 01:02:45.280
It's different because federal and state are different. This case, though,
1403
01:02:45.340 --> 01:02:47.699
was moved into federal court and dismissed on the grounds
1404
01:02:47.719 --> 01:02:49.860
that Horiuchi was protected for actions taken.
1405
01:02:49.639 --> 01:02:51.300
As a federal agent. Yeah, that sucks.
1406
01:02:51.920 --> 01:02:53.980
An appeals court later ruled that enough facts were disputed
1407
01:02:54.019 --> 01:02:56.519
for the case to continue, but a new county prosecutor
1408
01:02:56.559 --> 01:02:59.079
dropped it in 2001, I bet. Uh-huh. Saying too much
1409
01:02:59.119 --> 01:03:02.320
time had passed and a conviction was unlikely anyways. In
1410
01:03:02.360 --> 01:03:04.860
the end, nobody was ever convicted for the deaths of Vicki, Sammy,
1411
01:03:04.940 --> 01:03:05.699
or William Deegan.
1412
01:03:05.780 --> 01:03:06.420
That's fucked up.
1413
01:03:07.900 --> 01:03:08.760
William Deegan won.
1414
01:03:09.059 --> 01:03:09.380
Right.
1415
01:03:10.420 --> 01:03:12.619
Ruby Ridge became a rallying cry for the growing militia
1416
01:03:12.639 --> 01:03:13.949
and anti-government movements of the 90s.
1417
01:03:13.960 --> 01:03:14.800
It did.
1418
01:03:14.920 --> 01:03:17.260
Especially after the siege at Waco the very following year
1419
01:03:17.280 --> 01:03:20.079
with much of the same people. Timothy McVeigh, he later
1420
01:03:20.139 --> 01:03:22.320
pointed to both events when explaining the anger behind the
1421
01:03:22.360 --> 01:03:23.199
Oklahoma City bombing.
1422
01:03:23.239 --> 01:03:23.559
I mean.
1423
01:03:23.940 --> 01:03:25.619
Though that act belonged to McVeigh and not to the
1424
01:03:25.639 --> 01:03:29.409
Weaver family, no shit. But McVeigh, didn't he go down
1425
01:03:29.449 --> 01:03:30.650
to Waco? I'm pretty sure he did.
1426
01:03:31.070 --> 01:03:31.329
Maybe.
1427
01:03:31.769 --> 01:03:33.989
Randy was not an innocent man who dragged into trouble
1428
01:03:34.050 --> 01:03:36.699
without making choices of his own. Obviously, he sold illegal guns,
1429
01:03:37.079 --> 01:03:39.719
refused to appear once he knew he was wanted, filled
1430
01:03:39.760 --> 01:03:42.840
his children with fear, kept them armed inside a confrontation,
1431
01:03:42.900 --> 01:03:44.719
and repeatedly chose resistance over surrender.
1432
01:03:44.739 --> 01:03:50.329
They're just brainwashed somehow. I don't know. Something just clicked,
1433
01:03:50.369 --> 01:03:52.809
especially with her. And you know, he probably loved her
1434
01:03:52.849 --> 01:03:56.079
to death, so. Whatever she, his wife said, Vicky.
1435
01:03:56.320 --> 01:03:58.590
All that reading, that junk, man.
1436
01:03:59.250 --> 01:04:02.909
And then going to those stupid fucking Aryan Brotherhood meetings.
1437
01:04:02.949 --> 01:04:03.630
That's even worse.
1438
01:04:04.530 --> 01:04:07.090
But, though, none of that turned Vicky into a threat, obviously.
1439
01:04:07.530 --> 01:04:09.469
Justified shooting Harris through a doorway, either.
1440
01:04:09.860 --> 01:04:10.010
No.
1441
01:04:10.219 --> 01:04:13.280
Or excused building a massive conspiracy case from rumors and
1442
01:04:13.340 --> 01:04:15.079
evidence the government itself could not even defend.
1443
01:04:15.179 --> 01:04:19.440
Lies! That the own government even created, what, the ATF? Ridiculous. Jesus, Pete.
1444
01:04:20.000 --> 01:04:22.179
Ruby Ridge lasted 11 days, but it took years to
1445
01:04:22.280 --> 01:04:24.130
uncover how many chances there had been to stop it
1446
01:04:24.170 --> 01:04:24.989
before anybody died.
1447
01:04:25.030 --> 01:04:26.289
They shouldn't have even started it.
1448
01:04:27.070 --> 01:04:28.989
They were picking on a guy that was broke and
1449
01:04:29.030 --> 01:04:31.230
was going to sell some fucking guns to fucking somebody.
1450
01:04:31.570 --> 01:04:33.809
Gives a fuck. Sawed off or not.
1451
01:04:34.269 --> 01:04:36.349
By then, though, a family had been torn apart. A
1452
01:04:36.389 --> 01:04:39.309
deputy marshal was dead. The government's attempt to arrest one
1453
01:04:39.349 --> 01:04:41.659
man had created the very nightmare the Weavers had gone
1454
01:04:41.699 --> 01:04:42.739
to the mountain expecting.
1455
01:04:42.760 --> 01:04:43.840
You know what? I don't understand.
1456
01:04:43.860 --> 01:04:44.900
It made it become a reality.
1457
01:04:44.940 --> 01:04:46.780
Somebody wants a sawed-off shotgun. Why don't you just sell
1458
01:04:46.820 --> 01:04:47.519
somebody a shotgun and.
1459
01:04:47.480 --> 01:04:51.539
Be like, fucking sawed off, bud? Right. There you go.
1460
01:04:51.559 --> 01:04:54.980
I'm not going to do it for you. I don't
1461
01:04:55.000 --> 01:04:57.880
have a hacksaw. That's true.
1462
01:04:58.360 --> 01:05:00.199
Here's a shotgun. Saw it.
1463
01:05:00.320 --> 01:05:03.159
Right. I'll do it. Instead of doing a perfectly legal
1464
01:05:03.199 --> 01:05:06.719
fucking transaction. Jeez. Oh, man.
1465
01:05:07.500 --> 01:05:11.840
Well, one of the most corrupt things that ever happened
1466
01:05:11.960 --> 01:05:14.659
in law enforcement history right there, boys.
1467
01:05:15.219 --> 01:05:17.400
Crazy. Terrible. Terrible.
1468
01:05:17.460 --> 01:05:20.139
And then We'll get to Waco later on down the
1469
01:05:20.159 --> 01:05:23.719
line here again. And that was even more worse than this.
1470
01:05:23.820 --> 01:05:25.000
You'd think they would have.
1471
01:05:25.019 --> 01:05:32.699
And speaking of how they mentioned the negotiators, the negotiators
1472
01:05:32.739 --> 01:05:35.619
for Waco were even more fucking dumb.
1473
01:05:35.639 --> 01:05:36.739
It was worse. Yeah.
1474
01:05:36.980 --> 01:05:39.420
We'll get there. But with that, if you're listening on podcast,
1475
01:05:39.460 --> 01:05:41.030
make sure you're giving us a like, sharing us with
1476
01:05:41.050 --> 01:05:43.969
your friends, commenting. If you're listening on YouTube, make sure
1477
01:05:44.010 --> 01:05:46.269
you're hitting that. Bell, so you know when we're going
1478
01:05:46.329 --> 01:05:47.630
live and releasing new episodes.
1479
01:05:47.650 --> 01:05:51.469
You know, the FBI handles itself pretty well because for
1480
01:05:51.570 --> 01:05:52.369
decades they've.
1481
01:05:52.230 --> 01:05:55.380
Been dealing with shit like this. They seem to get
1482
01:05:55.400 --> 01:05:55.800
away with it.
1483
01:05:56.320 --> 01:05:59.320
Seems like at least once every decade, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s,
1484
01:05:59.480 --> 01:06:04.599
something stupid happened.
1485
01:06:04.900 --> 01:06:06.380
Well, in the 30s, it was like several.
1486
01:06:06.659 --> 01:06:06.980
Right.
1487
01:06:07.820 --> 01:06:09.760
They were shooting people and doing all sorts of shit.
1488
01:06:09.940 --> 01:06:10.420
Insane.
1489
01:06:10.480 --> 01:06:10.860
Yeah.
1490
01:06:11.719 --> 01:06:11.880
Yeah.
1491
01:06:14.690 --> 01:06:17.400
Anything else to add before I inevitably try to do
1492
01:06:17.420 --> 01:06:19.039
the closing and you interrupt.
1493
01:06:18.659 --> 01:06:19.320
Me once again?
1494
01:06:19.340 --> 01:06:20.500
That's it, man.
1495
01:06:20.539 --> 01:06:21.590
All right, well, we'll see you next week.
1496
01:06:21.619 --> 01:06:22.340
Oh, wait, no way.
1497
01:06:22.349 --> 01:06:23.329
The Gunslingers.
1498
01:06:23.389 --> 01:06:24.190
We'll see you then.
1
00:00:06.469 --> 00:00:10.050
Welcome to Outlaws and Gunslingers. From the Wild West to
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the rise of organized crime during the Prohibition, all the
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way up to today, America has had criminals, gangs, and
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law enforcement trying to bring them down. Join us as
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we profile some of the most infamous criminals, gangsters, outlaws,
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and lawmen in American history. True crime like you've never
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heard it before. Ladies and gentlemen, Here are your hosts,
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Bang and Dang.
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even know what it is at this point, but All
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So if you're tired of the ads, Patreon's where it's at.
23
00:01:25.519 --> 00:01:28.659
August 22, 1992, an FBI sniper. They watch three people
24
00:01:28.719 --> 00:01:30.700
run toward a cabin in the mountains of northern Idaho.
25
00:01:31.620 --> 00:01:33.099
He fired at one of them just before the man
26
00:01:33.140 --> 00:01:36.200
disappeared through the doorway. That bullet tore through the door,
27
00:01:36.459 --> 00:01:39.099
struck an unarmed woman in the head, and then continued
28
00:01:39.140 --> 00:01:41.769
into the man he was aiming at. Inside that cabin,
29
00:01:41.790 --> 00:01:44.209
there were three kids, an injured family friend, the body
30
00:01:44.290 --> 00:01:47.430
already of a 14-year-old boy, and now got the body
31
00:01:47.450 --> 00:01:51.290
of the children's mother, Vicki Weaver. Outside, hundreds of agents,
32
00:01:51.310 --> 00:01:53.290
they were gathering for what they believed could become a
33
00:01:53.329 --> 00:01:57.239
deadly siege. Yet, all this just started with Randy Weaver
34
00:01:57.280 --> 00:02:00.000
selling two sawed-off shotguns to Federal Informant and then failing
35
00:02:00.019 --> 00:02:02.659
to appear in court. By the time it was over, Vicki,
36
00:02:02.780 --> 00:02:04.219
her son Sammy, U.S.
37
00:02:04.239 --> 00:02:05.819
Deputy U.S.
38
00:02:05.879 --> 00:02:09.490
Marshal William Deegan, they were dead. Randy and Kevin Harris,
39
00:02:09.509 --> 00:02:11.110
they were facing charges that could put them in prison
40
00:02:11.150 --> 00:02:13.530
for the rest of their lives. The government's version of
41
00:02:13.550 --> 00:02:15.789
what happened on that mountain was already beginning to fall apart.
42
00:02:15.849 --> 00:02:16.509
It sure was.
43
00:02:17.009 --> 00:02:18.750
Ruby Ridge, it would become one of the most infamous
44
00:02:18.770 --> 00:02:21.750
standoffs in American history, but the road there began years earlier.
45
00:02:22.460 --> 00:02:24.479
So when Randy and Vicki Weaver, they decided they wanted
46
00:02:24.639 --> 00:02:26.139
nothing more to do with the world below.
47
00:02:27.379 --> 00:02:30.240
You can't do that. Government don't like that. Right. Live
48
00:02:30.259 --> 00:02:30.719
for yourself.
49
00:02:31.569 --> 00:02:31.770
What?
50
00:02:32.370 --> 00:02:33.289
Not depend on us.
51
00:02:33.490 --> 00:02:34.949
What? Are you insane?
52
00:02:35.689 --> 00:02:38.490
Well, most of their lives, Randy and Vicki Weaver, looked
53
00:02:38.509 --> 00:02:42.169
like an ordinary couple. Just from a rural town in Iowa.
54
00:02:42.750 --> 00:02:45.810
Randy grew up in a small town of, uh, Valissa.
55
00:02:46.789 --> 00:02:51.330
Played baseball. Attended community college. Enlisted into the Army in 1968.
56
00:02:51.330 --> 00:02:54.689
He went through special forces training at Fort Bragg. And
57
00:02:54.719 --> 00:02:58.400
became a Green Beret. Though he was never sent to Vietnam.
58
00:02:59.099 --> 00:02:59.169
Oh.
59
00:02:59.530 --> 00:03:02.900
While home on leave in 1970, he reconnected with Vicki Jordanson,
60
00:03:03.750 --> 00:03:06.919
a farmer's daughter he had known growing up. Vicki, she
61
00:03:06.939 --> 00:03:09.759
was an excellent student who knew how to cook, sew, knit,
62
00:03:10.120 --> 00:03:12.039
and handle the kind of work that came with living
63
00:03:12.080 --> 00:03:15.000
on a farm. Randy left the Army with an honorable
64
00:03:15.039 --> 00:03:19.280
discharge in 1971. They were married that November. He briefly
65
00:03:19.319 --> 00:03:21.979
returned to college, at one point thinking about a career.
66
00:03:21.780 --> 00:03:23.830
With the FBI. That was crazy.
67
00:03:24.849 --> 00:03:27.930
But the cost became too much. He left school, took
68
00:03:27.969 --> 00:03:30.789
a well-paying job at a John Deere factory. Vicki, well,
69
00:03:30.830 --> 00:03:33.069
she worked as a secretary before staying home to raise
70
00:03:33.090 --> 00:03:33.530
their children.
71
00:03:34.449 --> 00:03:35.090
They bought a house.
72
00:03:35.150 --> 00:03:38.810
They attended church every Sunday, probably every Wednesday. Started building
73
00:03:38.830 --> 00:03:41.870
the kind of life that would not look unusual anywhere
74
00:03:41.889 --> 00:03:44.849
in Iowa or pretty much all of the United States.
75
00:03:46.009 --> 00:03:48.639
During the late 1970s, the view of the world began
76
00:03:48.659 --> 00:03:52.500
to change. The economy was struggling. Farms all across the
77
00:03:52.539 --> 00:03:53.620
Midwest were under pressure.
78
00:03:53.639 --> 00:03:54.460
The 70s were rough.
79
00:03:54.840 --> 00:03:58.280
The Weavers became convinced. that the country was headed somewhere dangerous.
80
00:03:59.319 --> 00:04:01.879
Religion always been a big part of their lives, but
81
00:04:01.900 --> 00:04:04.199
it became far more intense after Vicki began reading books
82
00:04:04.259 --> 00:04:05.319
about biblical prophecy.
83
00:04:05.520 --> 00:04:05.879
Oh no.
84
00:04:06.469 --> 00:04:09.129
And the end of the world. She came to believe
85
00:04:09.169 --> 00:04:12.669
that God, whom the family called Yahweh, was warning her
86
00:04:12.969 --> 00:04:13.789
about what was coming.
87
00:04:15.229 --> 00:04:17.509
I mean, he was, maybe not at that time.
88
00:04:17.670 --> 00:04:17.850
Right.
89
00:04:18.110 --> 00:04:20.339
She had recurring dreams of her family living safely on
90
00:04:20.379 --> 00:04:24.300
a mountaintop while the world below fell apart. Randy took
91
00:04:24.339 --> 00:04:28.529
those warnings seriously. A couple began talking about leaving Iowa altogether,
92
00:04:29.129 --> 00:04:31.670
getting away from all the cities, raising their children somewhere
93
00:04:31.709 --> 00:04:34.870
the government and modern society could never reach them. They
94
00:04:34.889 --> 00:04:37.209
sold many of their belongings, studied how the Amish lived
95
00:04:37.230 --> 00:04:43.439
without modern conveniences, and they searched for land in the West. 1983,
96
00:04:43.439 --> 00:04:47.279
found 20 acres, Boundary County, Idaho, a few miles outside
97
00:04:47.300 --> 00:04:50.500
the small community of Naples, about 30 miles from the
98
00:04:50.519 --> 00:04:51.170
Canadian border.
99
00:04:52.069 --> 00:04:53.589
That's far, far away now.
100
00:04:53.610 --> 00:04:54.050
They're up there.
101
00:04:56.160 --> 00:04:58.959
Just that little sliver between Washington and Montana.
102
00:04:59.060 --> 00:04:59.850
Handle type deal.
103
00:05:00.459 --> 00:05:03.290
They paid $ 5, 000, traded their moving truck as part.
104
00:05:03.129 --> 00:05:03.529
Of the deal.
105
00:05:04.649 --> 00:05:06.949
They're never going to need it again. The land sat
106
00:05:06.990 --> 00:05:10.529
high in the mountains, just as Vicki dreamed. High enough
107
00:05:11.069 --> 00:05:13.649
at the end of a rough road, too. Covered in
108
00:05:13.709 --> 00:05:17.810
thick timber, isolated from almost everyone around it. Randy, you
109
00:05:17.829 --> 00:05:22.000
build a simple cabin. No electricity, no running water, no
110
00:05:22.060 --> 00:05:26.120
indoor plumbing. To the weavers, it was not temporary escape
111
00:05:26.350 --> 00:05:28.910
or a hunting camp. It was where they intended to
112
00:05:28.970 --> 00:05:31.410
raise their family for the rest of their lives, live
113
00:05:31.449 --> 00:05:34.730
by their own rules, and wait out whatever they believed
114
00:05:34.769 --> 00:05:37.089
was coming to the world. But the farther they pulled
115
00:05:37.149 --> 00:05:39.540
away from the ordinary society, the more their beliefs hardened,
116
00:05:40.319 --> 00:05:42.639
and the mountain that was supposed to protect them slowly
117
00:05:42.860 --> 00:05:44.279
became a world of its own.
118
00:05:46.540 --> 00:05:48.699
Life on that mountain, as you might imagine, was hard
119
00:05:48.920 --> 00:05:50.990
for that part. It was what Randy and Vicki wanted.
120
00:05:51.839 --> 00:05:54.389
The cabin had no electricity or running water. The road
121
00:05:54.430 --> 00:05:57.490
became difficult in bad weather. Nearly everything the family needed
122
00:05:57.730 --> 00:06:01.230
had to be built, grown, hunted, or carried up from town. Vicki,
123
00:06:01.329 --> 00:06:04.060
she homeschooled Sarah, Sammy, and Rachel, while Randy, he took
124
00:06:04.069 --> 00:06:07.180
whatever work he could find, including cutting firewood and doing
125
00:06:07.259 --> 00:06:07.759
odd jobs.
126
00:06:07.939 --> 00:06:10.100
But still relied on society.
127
00:06:11.139 --> 00:06:12.920
Money was often tight, but the children later, why do
128
00:06:12.939 --> 00:06:15.850
you need money? The children, they later remembered plenty of
129
00:06:15.870 --> 00:06:18.839
good days there. They explored the woods, helped with chores,
130
00:06:18.920 --> 00:06:20.759
cared for animals, grew up with the kind of freedom
131
00:06:20.819 --> 00:06:24.560
they couldn't have had in town. Family, they also kept
132
00:06:24.600 --> 00:06:27.259
guns close by. And that part of Idaho, owning rifles
133
00:06:27.300 --> 00:06:28.879
and hunting for food was hardly unusual.
134
00:06:28.899 --> 00:06:30.120
Of course. They were weavers.
135
00:06:30.170 --> 00:06:32.449
They saw their weapons as protection from more than animals.
136
00:06:33.170 --> 00:06:35.550
They believed the government might eventually come for people like them.
137
00:06:35.610 --> 00:06:37.230
And Randy, he taught the children how to shoot and
138
00:06:37.250 --> 00:06:38.490
carry guns from an early age.
139
00:06:38.529 --> 00:06:38.970
Damn right.
140
00:06:39.550 --> 00:06:41.629
Vicki, she was the strongest religious influence in the home.
141
00:06:42.209 --> 00:06:44.870
She studied the Old Testament, kept journals addressed to Yahweh.
142
00:06:45.610 --> 00:06:47.350
She came to believe that her family had been chosen
143
00:06:47.370 --> 00:06:50.209
to survive the destruction ahead. Over time, those beliefs had
144
00:06:50.250 --> 00:06:52.930
moved into Christian identity, a loose collection of teachings built
145
00:06:52.970 --> 00:06:55.230
around the false idea that white Europeans were the true
146
00:06:55.269 --> 00:06:56.680
descendants of biblical Israel.
147
00:06:56.689 --> 00:06:57.120
Oh, jeez.
148
00:06:57.920 --> 00:07:00.300
Many followers, they also taught that Jewish people were enemies
149
00:07:00.339 --> 00:07:02.439
of God and that the races were meant to remain separate.
150
00:07:03.480 --> 00:07:06.560
Randy and Vicki, they accepted racist and anti-Semitic ideas tied
151
00:07:06.579 --> 00:07:09.699
to that movement. Randy, he later described himself as a
152
00:07:09.759 --> 00:07:12.699
racial separatist and said he believed the races should live apart.
153
00:07:12.930 --> 00:07:13.430
Oh, well.
154
00:07:13.920 --> 00:07:15.560
The Weavers, though, they were not accused of carrying out
155
00:07:15.579 --> 00:07:17.600
racial attacks, and Randy was never proven to be a
156
00:07:17.620 --> 00:07:19.800
formal member of Aryan nations, as people claimed.
157
00:07:19.959 --> 00:07:20.199
Right.
158
00:07:20.579 --> 00:07:23.310
He did, however, visit its compound near Hayden Lake and
159
00:07:23.350 --> 00:07:25.410
attend its annual World Aryan Congress, though.
160
00:07:25.470 --> 00:07:28.069
Hmm. Right.
161
00:07:29.290 --> 00:07:34.089
The gathering that drew white supremacists, neo-Nazi survivalists, and hand-in-hand, right?
162
00:07:34.189 --> 00:07:34.529
Right.
163
00:07:34.689 --> 00:07:38.310
Anti-government figures from across the country, along with federal agents
164
00:07:38.350 --> 00:07:40.009
and informants trying to learn what they were planning.
165
00:07:40.149 --> 00:07:41.509
I mean, I guess it's kind of like Burning Man.
166
00:07:42.120 --> 00:07:44.029
for the liberals because there's all kinds of different shit
167
00:07:44.050 --> 00:07:50.449
there yeah but i guess there's some that you want
168
00:07:50.870 --> 00:07:53.389
that list you just did there is basically the same
169
00:07:53.490 --> 00:07:54.949
on the burning.
170
00:07:54.750 --> 00:07:57.889
Man but on the other side right it's crazy randy
171
00:07:57.949 --> 00:08:00.439
he met people there listen to speakers sometimes discuss his
172
00:08:00.519 --> 00:08:03.399
hatred of federal government he also argued that white people
173
00:08:03.439 --> 00:08:05.939
needed a separate homeland although he did not always agree
174
00:08:06.000 --> 00:08:08.240
with the organizations around him or submit to the leaders
175
00:08:09.209 --> 00:08:11.189
That made him difficult to place. He was close enough
176
00:08:11.230 --> 00:08:13.810
to the movement to attract attention, but independent enough that
177
00:08:13.870 --> 00:08:15.910
even people inside it didn't even consider him one of
178
00:08:15.949 --> 00:08:20.490
their own. His growing reputation also reached his neighbors. Some
179
00:08:20.509 --> 00:08:23.470
saw the Weavers as strange, but mostly harmless. Others, they
180
00:08:23.490 --> 00:08:27.180
described Randy as angry, armed, and capable of violence. A
181
00:08:27.209 --> 00:08:30.040
better land dispute produced reports that he had threatened public officials,
182
00:08:30.600 --> 00:08:34.789
claims Randy denied and investigators couldn't support. By the middle
183
00:08:34.809 --> 00:08:37.129
of the 80s, his name had begun appearing in federal files,
184
00:08:37.250 --> 00:08:39.210
even though there was not enough evidence to charge him
185
00:08:39.230 --> 00:08:43.309
with anything. Then, at an Aryan gathering in 1986, Randy
186
00:08:43.330 --> 00:08:47.820
was introduced to a man calling himself Gus Magasano. Randy,
187
00:08:47.889 --> 00:08:49.779
he believed he met another gun dealer who shared some
188
00:08:49.820 --> 00:08:52.419
of his views. But in reality, that man's name was
189
00:08:52.500 --> 00:08:53.620
actually Kenneth Fadley.
190
00:08:54.379 --> 00:08:54.759
Fadley?
191
00:08:55.100 --> 00:08:59.159
Fadley. He was working as a paid informant for the ATF. Bullshit.
192
00:08:59.200 --> 00:08:59.720
That's borderline.
193
00:08:59.860 --> 00:09:02.019
They're just entrapping this dude, man.
194
00:09:02.039 --> 00:09:03.899
That's borderline entrapment, but whatever.
195
00:09:05.250 --> 00:09:09.039
Just making people do things they wouldn't have ordinarily thought
196
00:09:09.059 --> 00:09:09.600
of doing.
197
00:09:10.240 --> 00:09:10.799
Insane.
198
00:09:10.940 --> 00:09:13.960
Fadely, he had been sent into the Aryan Nation Circle
199
00:09:14.000 --> 00:09:17.879
to gather information about illegal gun sales. Not specifically build
200
00:09:17.899 --> 00:09:22.039
a case against Randy Weaver. He used the name Gus Magasano.
201
00:09:23.480 --> 00:09:25.759
He presented himself as a gun dealer with connections to
202
00:09:25.799 --> 00:09:28.259
motorcycle gangs, which gave him a reason to ask questions
203
00:09:28.299 --> 00:09:32.620
about weapons without immediately raising suspicion. He and Randy remained
204
00:09:32.639 --> 00:09:35.990
in contact after the first meeting. seeing each other at
205
00:09:36.049 --> 00:09:39.990
later gatherings and occasionally talking about guns, politics, and their
206
00:09:40.029 --> 00:09:44.409
shared hatred of what Randy called the Zionist group government. Oh,
207
00:09:44.440 --> 00:09:46.000
the Zionist occupied government.
208
00:09:46.120 --> 00:09:47.299
Oh, oh.
209
00:09:48.360 --> 00:09:51.070
By July of 1989, Randy trusted him enough to invite
210
00:09:51.070 --> 00:09:53.309
him to the cabin for a discussion about forming a
211
00:09:53.309 --> 00:09:56.279
group that could fight the government if the country collapsed.
212
00:09:56.279 --> 00:09:57.960
There's your problem right there, bud.
213
00:09:57.960 --> 00:10:00.340
If that conversation would never happen, I don't think those
214
00:10:00.379 --> 00:10:01.980
two sawed-offs would have been such a big deal.
215
00:10:02.340 --> 00:10:02.620
Right.
216
00:10:03.519 --> 00:10:06.120
The conversation that eventually caused Randy trouble came a few
217
00:10:06.139 --> 00:10:09.720
months later. Fadley said he needed shotguns that could be
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easily concealed and resold. According to the ATF's version, Randy
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00:10:13.919 --> 00:10:17.059
offered to supply sawed-off shotguns and claimed he could get
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00:10:17.200 --> 00:10:18.210
four or five of them a week.
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Whoa.
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Randy later told a different story.
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He said Fadley had spent years working on him, repeatedly
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asking for guns and pretending to be desperate for money.
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Randy also claimed that he finally agreed because his own
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family needed cash and because he believed he was helping
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someone he considered a friend. The most important early conversation
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00:10:37.299 --> 00:10:40.899
was not even recorded. Fadley later said he had sometimes
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avoided wearing a wire because he was afraid the men
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around him would discover it. That left no recording capable
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of setting up of settling who first suggested cutting the.
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Barrels below the legal limit.
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It doesn't matter, because they're going to take the informant's
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word over the other guy. 24th of October, 1989.
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Two men.
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They met in a park in Sandpoint. But this time,
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Faisley was carrying a small tape recorder and electronic transmitter.
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Randy handed him two sawed-off shotguns. One barrel measured about
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13 inches and the other 12. This is well below
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the federal minimum of 18 inches. Under federal law, a
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shotgun with a barrel that short had to be registered.
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Neither gun was.
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On the recording, Randy said that he cut him off
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himself with a vice and a hacksaw. He could do
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a better job once he had his workshop set up.
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So this is saying that he ain't even doing this shit.
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He just did it.
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On a whim to get this guy to get some
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money real quick. Wow.
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Fadely paid him $ 300 with more money still owed. That
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recording gave the ATF evidence that Randy had knowingly made
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and possessed.
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Two illegal guns. Oh, jeez. But the tape also left
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room for an argument. That would follow the case for years.
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It did prove Randy delivered the weapons, but it did
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not prove whose idea the illegal alterations had been or
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00:11:55.330 --> 00:11:57.789
how much pressure Fadley had used to get him there.
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So, right. We don't know what's that. It could be blackmail.
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00:12:00.870 --> 00:12:03.070
He said he'd been begging me for fucking six months.
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Right.
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00:12:04.149 --> 00:12:06.870
Fadley, of course, he insisted there was no pressure and
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said that Randy volunteered at all. And he said he
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can supply even more guns on a regular basis. Whenever
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you need, just ask. Randy, of course, he was like, no,
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I was pushed into committing a crime that I otherwise
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would never commit.
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Trust me.
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When the Justice Department examined the case years later, his
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00:12:24.169 --> 00:12:27.669
investigators said the events leading to the sale troubled them.
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But they could not conclude that the ATF had coerced
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00:12:31.500 --> 00:12:32.620
or illegally enticed him.
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00:12:32.789 --> 00:12:33.500
Of course, they can't.
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Randy still agreed to make the guns. He still agreed
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00:12:36.820 --> 00:12:38.940
to cut them himself. And he still agreed to accept
275
00:12:38.980 --> 00:12:42.200
the money. A month after the sale, Randy confronted Fatally
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with a warning that he received that Gus.
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00:12:45.070 --> 00:12:47.789
Might be a cop. Oh, Fadely, he denied it. He said,
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I ain't no cop.
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00:12:48.830 --> 00:12:51.409
He tried to maintain his cover, but his handler decided
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00:12:51.429 --> 00:12:53.610
the relationship had become too dangerous and ordered him to
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00:12:53.629 --> 00:12:54.090
stay away.
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And that further proves Randy. Right.
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00:12:56.620 --> 00:12:58.120
Now I ain't seen him. Yeah.
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The ATF now had a recording with him giving them
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the guns that were illegal. So they had a solid
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00:13:04.840 --> 00:13:08.179
case against Randy, but arresting him immediately could expose an
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00:13:08.240 --> 00:13:11.220
informant who was still useful in a much larger investigation
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because it really actually.
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00:13:13.429 --> 00:13:14.620
They thought this was going to be something big.
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They're trying to get the Aryan movement or whatever, all
291
00:13:18.210 --> 00:13:19.299
those fucking people inside of it.
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00:13:19.570 --> 00:13:23.559
And for this very moment, the evidence went into a file. Randy,
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00:13:23.600 --> 00:13:25.860
he returned to everyday living on Mountain Life, believing that
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he had caught the man before the man caught him.
295
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Little did he know.
296
00:13:30.399 --> 00:13:32.580
That case sat for several months while the old ATF
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00:13:32.620 --> 00:13:35.090
tried to protect Fadley's identity and finish its work around
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00:13:35.139 --> 00:13:38.309
Aryan nations. By the spring of 1990, his cover had
299
00:13:38.330 --> 00:13:40.809
already begun to break down, keeping the shotgun sale quiet
300
00:13:40.830 --> 00:13:44.470
and no longer served much purpose. ATF agent Herb Byerly,
301
00:13:44.629 --> 00:13:46.950
he submitted the case to the U.S. Attorney's Office in Boise,
302
00:13:47.350 --> 00:13:48.860
recommended that Randy be prosecuted.
303
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Why?
304
00:13:51.179 --> 00:13:53.279
Before that happened, the agents decided to see whether the
305
00:13:53.320 --> 00:13:55.759
evidence could buy them something more valuable than a gun conviction.
306
00:13:56.679 --> 00:13:58.740
In June, Byerly and another agent, they drove to the
307
00:13:58.759 --> 00:14:01.799
Weaver property looking for Randy. They found old little Sarah
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00:14:01.840 --> 00:14:03.620
wearing a pistol on her hip and Sammy carrying a
309
00:14:03.620 --> 00:14:07.399
large hunting knife. Randy, he wasn't there. The agents, they
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00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:10.080
left without identifying themselves, then spotted his truck outside a
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00:14:10.120 --> 00:14:13.159
motel in Sandpoint. They approached him there, showed him a
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00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:15.299
photograph of the two shotguns, and said they had recorded
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00:14:15.340 --> 00:14:18.100
the sale. Randy, he refused to listen to the tape.
314
00:14:18.580 --> 00:14:21.000
Byerly told him that U.S. Attorney's Office knew about the guns,
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00:14:21.100 --> 00:14:24.460
but that cooperating with the ATF could help him. The agents,
316
00:14:24.500 --> 00:14:26.919
they wanted info about crimes involving people connected to the
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00:14:26.980 --> 00:14:29.820
Aryan Nations. They said if old Randy helped them, they
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00:14:29.840 --> 00:14:32.159
would make sure the prosecutor knew about it. Randy, he
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00:14:32.200 --> 00:14:34.080
understood that they were asking what they were asking and
320
00:14:34.120 --> 00:14:36.570
rejected it. He told him he would not become a snitch.
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00:14:37.259 --> 00:14:39.269
The agents gave him a telephone number just in case
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00:14:39.309 --> 00:14:42.039
he changed his mind, but he never called. Randy, he
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00:14:42.059 --> 00:14:44.840
later saw what happened next as punishment for refusing to cooperate.
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Most likely the case.
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00:14:46.220 --> 00:14:48.679
The Justice Department investigation found no proof that the gun
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00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:50.659
case had been delayed to pressure him or that the
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00:14:50.700 --> 00:14:51.720
indictment was retaliation.
328
00:14:51.740 --> 00:14:52.720
Of course, they didn't.
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00:14:53.360 --> 00:14:56.259
The ATF had already recommended prosecution before asking for his help,
330
00:14:56.759 --> 00:14:58.720
and the U.S. Attorney's Office simply treated the case as
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00:14:58.759 --> 00:15:02.399
low priority. Still, from Randy's point of view, the sequence
332
00:15:02.460 --> 00:15:05.279
was pretty obvious. The ATF threatened him with charges, asked
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00:15:05.299 --> 00:15:07.519
him to inform, and prosecuted him when he refused.
334
00:15:07.590 --> 00:15:07.750
Hmm.
335
00:15:08.919 --> 00:15:11.659
December 13, 1990, a federal grand jury indicted him for
336
00:15:11.700 --> 00:15:13.639
making and possessing unregistered firearms.
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00:15:14.039 --> 00:15:14.679
Son of a bitch.
338
00:15:14.820 --> 00:15:16.899
He wasn't charged with running a gun business or supplying
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00:15:16.940 --> 00:15:19.720
piles of illegal weapons. That case rested on those measly
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00:15:19.759 --> 00:15:21.779
two little shotguns sold to Fadley more than a year
341
00:15:21.820 --> 00:15:22.519
and a half earlier.
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00:15:22.539 --> 00:15:23.899
All right.
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00:15:24.679 --> 00:15:27.149
Arresting him presented a different problem, though. The ATF believed
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00:15:27.169 --> 00:15:29.370
that approaching the cabin could lead to a gunfight involving
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00:15:29.389 --> 00:15:31.870
Vicki and the kids. So agents, they created a way
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00:15:31.909 --> 00:15:35.799
to catch Randy away from home. January 17, 1991, two
347
00:15:35.860 --> 00:15:38.019
agents parked near the property, raised the hood of their vehicle,
348
00:15:38.039 --> 00:15:39.179
and pretended they had broken down.
349
00:15:39.220 --> 00:15:40.009
The old trick, huh?
350
00:15:40.980 --> 00:15:42.779
When Randy and Vicki came along, they stopped to help.
351
00:15:43.620 --> 00:15:45.730
Sheriff Bruce Whitaker and the Whedon agents moved in and
352
00:15:45.750 --> 00:15:47.889
arrested Randy without anyone firing a single shot.
353
00:15:47.909 --> 00:15:49.389
There you go. Smart move, guys.
354
00:15:49.750 --> 00:15:52.730
He was taken to Coeur d'Alene and brought before a
355
00:15:52.750 --> 00:15:55.549
federal judge the next day because he had no criminal record.
356
00:15:55.730 --> 00:15:58.750
And why are they pursuing this type of case against him?
357
00:15:58.769 --> 00:15:59.690
It doesn't make any sense.
358
00:15:59.710 --> 00:16:00.389
It's just retarded.
359
00:16:01.539 --> 00:16:05.919
He was released on a $ 10, 000 personal reconnaissance bond, meaning
360
00:16:05.960 --> 00:16:07.299
he didn't have to pay up the money unless he
361
00:16:07.320 --> 00:16:11.440
broke the conditions of his release. Even that was explained badly. Randy,
362
00:16:11.480 --> 00:16:13.100
he came away believing that if he lost the case,
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00:16:13.120 --> 00:16:16.080
the government might take his land. One thing he and
364
00:16:16.100 --> 00:16:19.500
Vicki had built their entire lives around. And what they've
365
00:16:19.519 --> 00:16:27.159
been mourning against. The court appointed Everett Hoffmeister to represent
366
00:16:27.200 --> 00:16:29.039
him and set the trial for February 19th, less than
367
00:16:29.080 --> 00:16:32.059
five weeks away. Randy, he's now back on the mountain,
368
00:16:32.120 --> 00:16:34.490
convinced the ATF had tried to blackmail him into becoming
369
00:16:34.509 --> 00:16:37.509
an informant, while the government expected him to return quietly
370
00:16:37.549 --> 00:16:39.950
and face what still looked like a routine federal gun case.
371
00:16:40.750 --> 00:16:42.909
Then a single wrong date helped turn that case into
372
00:16:42.950 --> 00:16:43.500
something else.
373
00:16:43.669 --> 00:16:44.409
Oh, shit.
374
00:16:47.000 --> 00:16:50.860
The first change, it was small. February 18th, it was
375
00:16:50.879 --> 00:16:54.710
a federal holiday. The court moved Randy's trial from February
376
00:16:54.899 --> 00:16:57.309
19th to February 20th to give everyone more time to travel.
377
00:16:58.299 --> 00:16:59.799
There was a notice that went to the lawyers in
378
00:16:59.820 --> 00:17:04.190
the case, including Everett Hoffmeister, which was Randy's lawyer. But
379
00:17:04.329 --> 00:17:06.829
it was not sent directly to Randy, which doesn't matter.
380
00:17:07.309 --> 00:17:08.190
They can get away with that.
381
00:17:08.690 --> 00:17:10.890
Here is already the first case of incompetence. You guys
382
00:17:10.910 --> 00:17:13.490
don't know when your federal holidays are, buds?
383
00:17:13.539 --> 00:17:13.799
Right.
384
00:17:14.450 --> 00:17:18.339
Hoffmeister had already mailed letters to the Weaver post office
385
00:17:18.380 --> 00:17:20.880
box telling Randy when to appear and asked him to
386
00:17:20.920 --> 00:17:22.619
meet so they could prepare a defense.
387
00:17:23.420 --> 00:17:24.779
Randy wanted nothing to do with him.
388
00:17:25.559 --> 00:17:28.029
He had not chosen Hoffmeister as his attorney. He did
389
00:17:28.049 --> 00:17:30.930
not trust the federal court that appointed him and he
390
00:17:31.170 --> 00:17:34.829
never answered the letters. But at the same time, Randy
391
00:17:34.869 --> 00:17:37.930
was required to contact a probation officer, Carl Richens, as
392
00:17:37.970 --> 00:17:41.250
part of his release. Randy called, but Richens did not
393
00:17:41.309 --> 00:17:43.750
have the case file yet and asked him to leave
394
00:17:43.789 --> 00:17:47.730
contact information. Richens later said that Randy gave him a
395
00:17:47.769 --> 00:17:50.119
mailing address, but no telephone number. Well, you don't have
396
00:17:50.130 --> 00:17:53.779
a telephone number. 7th February, Richens sent Randy a letter
397
00:17:54.019 --> 00:17:56.450
asking him to get in touch. In that letter, he
398
00:17:56.490 --> 00:17:59.759
gave the trial date as March 20th, exactly one month
399
00:17:59.819 --> 00:18:00.900
later than the real date.
400
00:18:01.980 --> 00:18:02.299
Wow.
401
00:18:03.079 --> 00:18:05.500
That was notice, and that's the probation officer.
402
00:18:05.819 --> 00:18:06.039
Right.
403
00:18:06.660 --> 00:18:09.099
And that was the notice that Randy and Vicki accepted
404
00:18:09.319 --> 00:18:13.119
as genuine. Meanwhile, Vicki was sending letters of her own.
405
00:18:13.799 --> 00:18:17.680
She addressed federal officials with names like the Queen of Babylon,
406
00:18:18.140 --> 00:18:20.700
accused the government of serving evil, and warned that the
407
00:18:20.740 --> 00:18:24.630
family would obey Yahweh rather than federal orders. The letters
408
00:18:24.650 --> 00:18:28.190
were loaded with biblical language about judgment, death, and destruction.
409
00:18:28.269 --> 00:18:31.309
Yeah, lady, that's a little cookie.
410
00:18:31.470 --> 00:18:35.349
Yeah, Vicki saw them as religious warnings. The people receiving
411
00:18:35.390 --> 00:18:38.180
them saw possible threats from an armed family already talking
412
00:18:38.220 --> 00:18:39.259
about resisting the government.
413
00:18:39.279 --> 00:18:40.259
I mean, I get it.
414
00:18:41.019 --> 00:18:44.000
Randy, he didn't appear on the February 20th date. Chief
415
00:18:44.119 --> 00:18:47.039
District Judge Harold Ryan issued a bench warrant that same day.
416
00:18:47.609 --> 00:18:50.450
The case went to the U.S. Marshal Service. Within days,
417
00:18:50.529 --> 00:18:53.130
the court learned that Richens had given Randy the wrong date.
418
00:18:53.150 --> 00:18:54.029
So the court learned this.
419
00:18:54.089 --> 00:18:56.869
Okay, my bad, guys. Here's your right date. Let's schedule
420
00:18:56.930 --> 00:18:58.150
it to March 20th.
421
00:18:58.450 --> 00:19:01.990
But guess what? That court date mistake did not erase
422
00:19:02.029 --> 00:19:02.470
the warrant.
423
00:19:02.490 --> 00:19:03.430
That's so stupid.
424
00:19:03.609 --> 00:19:07.269
Hoffmeister's letters had carried the correct information. And the judge
425
00:19:07.309 --> 00:19:07.769
believed that, Randy.
426
00:19:07.789 --> 00:19:10.099
No, it didn't, because they already just stated that.
427
00:19:10.819 --> 00:19:12.039
It changed. Right.
428
00:19:12.839 --> 00:19:15.019
But the Hoffmeister's letters were still saying the old date.
429
00:19:15.549 --> 00:19:17.210
Which was only a day before, but still. But still.
430
00:19:17.349 --> 00:19:19.390
Not a month. But still. Right.
431
00:19:19.450 --> 00:19:21.990
They didn't even have the right information from his lawyer.
432
00:19:22.069 --> 00:19:22.309
Right.
433
00:19:22.690 --> 00:19:24.849
So they said that the lawyer sent letters that carried
434
00:19:24.869 --> 00:19:28.029
the correct information, so regardless. But if you're going to
435
00:19:28.049 --> 00:19:30.230
get a letter from a lawyer or the probation officer,
436
00:19:30.250 --> 00:19:31.890
I think I'm going to listen to the probation officer
437
00:19:31.930 --> 00:19:32.710
letter than the lawyer.
438
00:19:33.210 --> 00:19:35.690
You would think, because the probation officer should have the
439
00:19:35.779 --> 00:19:36.319
actual case.
440
00:19:36.559 --> 00:19:37.150
He can arrest you.
441
00:19:38.380 --> 00:19:40.539
So the judge believed that Randy had already decided not
442
00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:43.990
to cooperate with either his lawyer or the court. The
443
00:19:44.009 --> 00:19:46.160
government also knew that Randy was still on the mountain,
444
00:19:46.619 --> 00:19:48.480
so there was no mystery about where to find him.
445
00:19:49.430 --> 00:19:49.970
So he wasn't right.
446
00:19:51.319 --> 00:19:53.660
14th of March, the grand jury added a new charge
447
00:19:53.700 --> 00:19:56.440
for failing to appear. By then, Randy had learned that
448
00:19:56.460 --> 00:19:58.880
the government wanted him again, but he did not come
449
00:19:58.920 --> 00:20:00.099
down to clear up the confusion.
450
00:20:00.900 --> 00:20:03.140
This is kind of his own fault, too. He could have.
451
00:20:03.079 --> 00:20:04.859
Easily just walked in and been like, guys, it was
452
00:20:04.900 --> 00:20:07.400
all a fucking mistake. He would have got probation.
453
00:20:07.779 --> 00:20:10.250
He believed the warrant proved that the court had never
454
00:20:10.289 --> 00:20:13.470
intended to treat him fairly. The federal side saw the
455
00:20:13.509 --> 00:20:17.589
situation differently, though. Whatever Richens had wrote, Randy had ignored
456
00:20:17.630 --> 00:20:20.359
his lawyer anyway. He stopped cooperating with the conditions of
457
00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:23.079
his release and refused to submit to the court once
458
00:20:23.119 --> 00:20:26.119
he knew there was a warrant. Neither side trusted the other,
459
00:20:26.680 --> 00:20:28.880
enough to even correct a mistake that should have never
460
00:20:28.940 --> 00:20:33.200
become this serious. That's the shitty part. The difference was
461
00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:35.700
that the government had the legal authority to arrest him,
462
00:20:35.960 --> 00:20:38.569
while Randy was just a lonely little boy living in
463
00:20:38.589 --> 00:20:42.089
the woods. He told people he would not be taken
464
00:20:42.109 --> 00:20:45.390
by force. Vicki believed the family might die on that mountain,
465
00:20:46.049 --> 00:20:49.970
and she wrote as though that possibility had already been accepted.
466
00:20:51.240 --> 00:20:53.460
Their children heard the same warnings and began preparing for
467
00:20:53.539 --> 00:20:56.359
agents to appear in the trees. What had started as
468
00:20:56.380 --> 00:21:00.299
confusion over two dates were hardening into a test of wills.
469
00:21:01.140 --> 00:21:04.019
United States Marshals had an order from a judge, and
470
00:21:04.039 --> 00:21:06.130
they could not simply forget about Randy Weaver.
471
00:21:06.210 --> 00:21:07.390
Yeah, they got their orders.
472
00:21:07.930 --> 00:21:10.970
Randy believed following that order would place his freedom, his land,
473
00:21:11.009 --> 00:21:12.910
and his family in the hands of the same government
474
00:21:12.950 --> 00:21:17.259
he was trying to hide from. Bringing him in would
475
00:21:17.299 --> 00:21:21.720
now require finding a way past Vicky, the children, the weapons,
476
00:21:22.480 --> 00:21:24.200
and the certainty inside that cabin.
477
00:21:24.460 --> 00:21:27.779
Then an arrest was only the beginning of something worse. Oh,
478
00:21:27.799 --> 00:21:28.190
my God.
479
00:21:30.009 --> 00:21:32.809
The marshals responsible for the warrant understood almost immediately that
480
00:21:32.849 --> 00:21:34.470
walking up to the cabin and knocking on the door
481
00:21:34.519 --> 00:21:38.319
could get him killed. Randy told his friends that he
482
00:21:38.339 --> 00:21:40.440
would resist anyone who came onto his land to arrest him.
483
00:21:41.140 --> 00:21:43.480
Reports reaching the marshals for service, they said Vicki and
484
00:21:43.500 --> 00:21:46.779
the children might fight alongside him. Some of those warnings
485
00:21:46.819 --> 00:21:49.329
were exaggerated, but enough were credible that nobody wanted to
486
00:21:49.369 --> 00:21:52.410
test him. March of 91, the marshals brought in their
487
00:21:52.430 --> 00:21:53.529
special operations group to.
488
00:21:53.490 --> 00:21:54.130
Study the problem.
489
00:21:55.049 --> 00:21:57.710
A psychologist who reviewed the available information predicted that the
490
00:21:57.750 --> 00:22:00.210
family might fight to the death and recommended waiting until
491
00:22:00.250 --> 00:22:01.410
Randy left the property alone.
492
00:22:01.430 --> 00:22:02.630
Like they did before.
493
00:22:03.130 --> 00:22:04.880
The team, well, he's not probably going to now.
494
00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:05.299
Right.
495
00:22:05.839 --> 00:22:08.859
The team reached the same conclusion after visiting Northern Idaho
496
00:22:08.900 --> 00:22:11.799
that June. The cabin sat on high ground. The family
497
00:22:11.839 --> 00:22:14.700
had dogs that warned them whenever someone approached. And Randy,
498
00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:16.759
he rarely went anywhere without Vicki or one of the
499
00:22:16.779 --> 00:22:17.380
children nearby.
500
00:22:17.400 --> 00:22:20.859
Oh, I bet you they had at least six dogs, dude. Oh,
501
00:22:21.099 --> 00:22:21.480
I bet.
502
00:22:21.779 --> 00:22:25.769
And every time they left, they had four guns. A
503
00:22:25.789 --> 00:22:28.109
surprise attack offered no clean way to separate him from them.
504
00:22:28.670 --> 00:22:31.150
The marshals watched places he might visit, including a church
505
00:22:31.190 --> 00:22:33.710
connected to the Christian identity movement, but he didn't appear.
506
00:22:34.750 --> 00:22:37.190
They considered sending someone up under a white flag, then
507
00:22:37.230 --> 00:22:39.390
abandoned the idea because they feared he might fire before
508
00:22:39.410 --> 00:22:46.079
learning who it was. Friends, neighbors, Vicki's parents, and people
509
00:22:46.119 --> 00:22:49.440
connected to Aryan nations were asked to carry messages. Even
510
00:22:49.480 --> 00:22:51.599
Richard Butler, the head of the Aryan Nations, he was
511
00:22:51.640 --> 00:22:53.380
encouraged to tell Randy that he should come down and
512
00:22:53.400 --> 00:22:57.299
face the charges. Hoffmeister, he wrote that the gun case
513
00:22:57.359 --> 00:22:59.460
is relatively minor and that Randy might even have a
514
00:22:59.460 --> 00:23:00.109
strong defense.
515
00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:01.829
Right. I think it would have been, like you said,
516
00:23:01.869 --> 00:23:03.109
maybe probation. It would have been probation.
517
00:23:03.130 --> 00:23:03.869
He had no priors.
518
00:23:03.910 --> 00:23:04.109
Right.
519
00:23:04.690 --> 00:23:06.930
Vicki, she answered that living or dying on the mountain
520
00:23:06.950 --> 00:23:10.509
was part of Yahweh's plan. Randy refused to accept Hoffmeister
521
00:23:10.609 --> 00:23:12.390
as his lawyer and said surrendering through him would only
522
00:23:12.430 --> 00:23:15.809
guarantee that his rights were violated. By October of 91,
523
00:23:15.809 --> 00:23:18.700
the messages passed to a friend named Alan Jepson. It
524
00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:21.900
finally produced the beginning of a real negotiation. Randy said
525
00:23:21.940 --> 00:23:23.660
he did not trust the government because they had lied
526
00:23:23.680 --> 00:23:25.299
to him and used an informant to set him up
527
00:23:25.339 --> 00:23:27.690
in the first place. He also believed he could not
528
00:23:27.730 --> 00:23:30.009
receive a fair trial in Idaho because of prejudice against
529
00:23:30.049 --> 00:23:32.390
his racial beliefs. I think there's many more people like
530
00:23:32.430 --> 00:23:36.349
you than there are not in Idaho, buddy. According to Jepson,
531
00:23:36.809 --> 00:23:38.630
Randy might come down if the trial were moved and
532
00:23:38.670 --> 00:23:40.559
if Jepson could remain with him until he was released
533
00:23:40.619 --> 00:23:43.839
or sentenced. The marshals prepared a response and began working
534
00:23:43.859 --> 00:23:47.859
through the possible surrender terms. Then Assistant U.S. Attorney Ron Howen,
535
00:23:47.900 --> 00:23:51.049
he ordered them to stop. Howen said Randy was already
536
00:23:51.089 --> 00:23:54.049
represented by Hoffmeister, which meant the government couldn't negotiate with
537
00:23:54.069 --> 00:23:57.230
him directly or through someone else. That might have sounded
538
00:23:57.269 --> 00:23:59.769
proper on paper, but everyone involved knew Randy had rejected
539
00:23:59.809 --> 00:24:01.769
Hoffmeister and would not speak to him.
540
00:24:01.990 --> 00:24:02.670
These guys are just.
541
00:24:04.019 --> 00:24:06.819
Howen, he never asked whether Hoffmeister would consent to the talks,
542
00:24:06.900 --> 00:24:08.720
and he treated the rule as absolute, even though there
543
00:24:08.740 --> 00:24:11.859
were no exceptions, even though there were exceptions that could
544
00:24:11.880 --> 00:24:16.170
have allowed communication. The Justice Department. They later concluded that
545
00:24:16.210 --> 00:24:19.549
shutting down the negotiations was a mistake that made the
546
00:24:19.569 --> 00:24:23.069
marshals' job harder. Nobody could say the talks would have succeeded,
547
00:24:23.150 --> 00:24:24.730
but they were one of the few options that did
548
00:24:24.750 --> 00:24:26.150
not place armed men near the children.
549
00:24:27.190 --> 00:24:30.269
Well, if they could have explained in clarity exactly what
550
00:24:30.289 --> 00:24:32.230
was going to happen, they would have laid out exactly
551
00:24:32.269 --> 00:24:33.049
what was going to happen.
552
00:24:33.130 --> 00:24:34.869
I think maybe.
553
00:24:36.450 --> 00:24:38.930
But look, dude, we're not taking your land. We're not
554
00:24:38.950 --> 00:24:41.069
going to infringe on the way you're living. You just
555
00:24:41.109 --> 00:24:42.859
fucked up and sold two illegal guns, bud.
556
00:24:44.170 --> 00:24:48.069
That's literally it. Don't do it again. Geez.
557
00:24:48.089 --> 00:24:50.910
Through the winter, snow had made regular surveillance nearly impossible.
558
00:24:51.569 --> 00:24:54.390
When activity resumed in 1992, the marshals still rejected a
559
00:24:54.430 --> 00:24:58.890
direct assault. Plans involving armed teams surrounding the cabin were
560
00:24:58.910 --> 00:25:03.460
considered and thrown out. So was a supposedly non-lethal version
561
00:25:03.539 --> 00:25:05.299
using rubber bullets in an attempt to cut off the
562
00:25:05.339 --> 00:25:11.299
family's water. The acting director of the marshal service asked
563
00:25:11.319 --> 00:25:13.099
what would happen if one of the children fired during
564
00:25:13.140 --> 00:25:16.200
either operation. The answer was that the marshals would have
565
00:25:16.240 --> 00:25:18.579
to defend themselves, and that was enough to kill both plans.
566
00:25:18.960 --> 00:25:21.759
They were like, we're not going to kill kids. Senior
567
00:25:21.779 --> 00:25:24.400
officials even asked prosecutors to dismiss the indictment and file
568
00:25:24.460 --> 00:25:26.579
it again under seal. Yeah, just fucking, why are we
569
00:25:26.599 --> 00:25:27.779
doing this over two shotguns?
570
00:25:27.819 --> 00:25:28.140
Right.
571
00:25:29.039 --> 00:25:30.880
That would take away the immediate pressure to execute the
572
00:25:30.900 --> 00:25:33.109
warrant and allow agents to wait until Randy left the mountain,
573
00:25:33.309 --> 00:25:36.970
but the U.S. Attorney's Office refused. The warrant remained active
574
00:25:37.289 --> 00:25:39.529
while the prosecutors in court offered little practical help in
575
00:25:39.569 --> 00:25:40.710
finding a peaceful way to serve it.
576
00:25:40.730 --> 00:25:40.829
Mm-mm.
577
00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:43.650
By the spring of 92, the marshals settled on an
578
00:25:43.710 --> 00:25:46.390
operation that could take as long as a year. Say
579
00:25:46.430 --> 00:25:48.470
two deputies, they would pose as a married couple buying
580
00:25:48.509 --> 00:25:49.569
land near the Weaver property.
581
00:25:49.630 --> 00:25:50.230
Oh, geez.
582
00:25:50.309 --> 00:25:53.250
Why are they going? They're going through lengths like this.
583
00:25:53.150 --> 00:25:55.660
Dude's a mob boss or something. It's fucking insane.
584
00:25:56.400 --> 00:25:59.039
Geez. They would clear part of it, establish themselves as
585
00:25:59.140 --> 00:26:01.779
real neighbors, and slowly earn Randy's trust.
586
00:26:02.039 --> 00:26:05.970
Oh, my. This is insane. All for two sawed-off shotguns. Seriously.
587
00:26:06.369 --> 00:26:08.569
Hidden teams, they would protect them during each visit, but
588
00:26:08.670 --> 00:26:10.750
nobody would attempt an arrest unless Randy could be taken
589
00:26:10.769 --> 00:26:13.210
away from his family without a fight. It was an
590
00:26:13.329 --> 00:26:15.390
unusually slow plan for a man who had just been
591
00:26:15.430 --> 00:26:17.109
sitting openly at home for more than a year, but
592
00:26:17.309 --> 00:26:20.200
speed was no longer the priority. The marshals, they had
593
00:26:20.240 --> 00:26:23.200
accepted the safest way onto Randy Weaver's mountain was to
594
00:26:23.220 --> 00:26:24.900
make him believe that they didn't want him at all.
595
00:26:26.220 --> 00:26:30.240
This is just insanely crazy. Wow.
596
00:26:31.119 --> 00:26:33.910
Waiting that long required the marshals to understand exactly what
597
00:26:33.930 --> 00:26:38.099
they might face, but The file they inherited made Randy
598
00:26:38.119 --> 00:26:41.079
look more dangerous every time another agency added something to it.
599
00:26:41.980 --> 00:26:44.240
The ATF passed along reports that he had a criminal
600
00:26:44.279 --> 00:26:45.859
record and had once robbed a bank.
601
00:26:46.140 --> 00:26:50.750
Oh, my goodness. Neither claim was true.
602
00:26:51.450 --> 00:26:53.890
So the ATF is just out here actively making up
603
00:26:53.930 --> 00:26:54.769
shit about somebody.
604
00:26:54.970 --> 00:26:57.410
Oh, my gosh. They wanted all the guns they had
605
00:26:57.450 --> 00:27:03.009
in theirs. I guarantee it. Obviously, dude. Quite a bit, probably. Yeah. Oh,
606
00:27:03.069 --> 00:27:03.640
his army service.
607
00:27:03.660 --> 00:27:04.769
They're in a little remote part.
608
00:27:04.670 --> 00:27:05.170
Of the country.
609
00:27:05.309 --> 00:27:07.119
These guys have nothing fucking else better to do.
610
00:27:07.150 --> 00:27:08.170
So they're like, well, this is our.
611
00:27:08.130 --> 00:27:09.230
One chance at action, boys.
612
00:27:09.410 --> 00:27:12.029
Fucking ridiculous. Oh, my goodness.
613
00:27:12.210 --> 00:27:14.970
His army service, it was real. He did earn the
614
00:27:15.009 --> 00:27:16.970
Green Beret, but he never fought in Vietnam.
615
00:27:16.990 --> 00:27:21.390
So what? He never claimed to. Over time, that background was.
616
00:27:21.410 --> 00:27:23.130
Yeah, but he still earned the Green Beret, which means
617
00:27:23.170 --> 00:27:23.990
he's a bad motherfucker.
618
00:27:24.009 --> 00:27:24.349
Right.
619
00:27:24.849 --> 00:27:27.809
Over time, that background was sometimes repeated as though he
620
00:27:27.849 --> 00:27:29.769
were an experienced combat veteran trained to.
621
00:27:29.789 --> 00:27:30.829
Kill from the Moans.
622
00:27:31.569 --> 00:27:33.309
They were probably rambling it up. Right.
623
00:27:33.329 --> 00:27:33.910
Ramble, yeah.
624
00:27:33.950 --> 00:27:36.329
Ramble was probably, yeah, Ramble was the thing. So they're like,
625
00:27:36.349 --> 00:27:38.569
this is fucking John Ramble up there.
626
00:27:38.589 --> 00:27:39.490
Oh, my goodness.
627
00:27:39.710 --> 00:27:44.240
Other reports, they claim the property contained tunnels, bunkers, hidden explosives,
628
00:27:44.720 --> 00:27:46.279
automatic weapons all over the property.
629
00:27:46.299 --> 00:27:47.119
There's probably some of those.
630
00:27:47.359 --> 00:27:48.039
Booby traps.
631
00:27:48.059 --> 00:27:48.740
Maybe some of those.
632
00:27:49.160 --> 00:27:51.430
There were stories that the family had prepared caves where
633
00:27:51.450 --> 00:27:53.990
they could survive a siege and that anyone approaching the
634
00:27:54.029 --> 00:27:56.210
cabin would enter a carefully built defensive position.
635
00:27:57.329 --> 00:27:57.430
Wow.
636
00:28:27.940 --> 00:28:30.200
Randy's own statements made it easier to believe the worst.
637
00:28:30.839 --> 00:28:33.799
He talked about dying rather than surrendering. He kept his
638
00:28:33.839 --> 00:28:36.900
family armed and described the government as an enemy that
639
00:28:36.980 --> 00:28:40.549
might attack them. When visitors approached, Randy, Harris, or the
640
00:28:40.569 --> 00:28:43.089
children sometimes watched from covered positions until they knew who
641
00:28:43.130 --> 00:28:43.549
had arrived.
642
00:28:43.569 --> 00:28:44.309
I mean, why not?
643
00:28:45.349 --> 00:28:47.049
That was enough to confirm that the family was prepared
644
00:28:47.069 --> 00:28:49.410
to resist, even if it did not prove the cabinet
645
00:28:49.450 --> 00:28:52.829
were surrounded by bombs and tunnels. The most damaging report?
646
00:28:53.289 --> 00:28:57.259
April 1992. helicopter hired for a television program.
647
00:28:57.460 --> 00:28:58.599
They flew over that area.
648
00:28:59.400 --> 00:29:01.750
One pilot told reporters that someone on the Weaver property
649
00:29:01.789 --> 00:29:02.529
had fired a.
650
00:29:02.549 --> 00:29:03.130
Gun at him.
651
00:29:03.150 --> 00:29:06.210
Well, that takes things to a new level.
652
00:29:06.410 --> 00:29:06.609
Right.
653
00:29:06.670 --> 00:29:09.809
If it's true, newspapers quickly picked up that story and
654
00:29:10.210 --> 00:29:18.150
supposed attack became another example of Randy's willingness to shoot
655
00:29:18.190 --> 00:29:21.990
at anyone who came near their mountain. But the evidence
656
00:29:22.029 --> 00:29:25.420
underneath it is weak. A marshal working nearby had seen
657
00:29:25.440 --> 00:29:29.259
the helicopter and he didn't report hearing any gunfire. Ranney
658
00:29:29.299 --> 00:29:30.759
denied anyone had shot at all. He was like, what
659
00:29:30.779 --> 00:29:31.319
are you talking about?
660
00:29:31.339 --> 00:29:31.779
Nobody shot.
661
00:29:31.980 --> 00:29:33.440
It's just a fucking helicopter. You know how many times
662
00:29:33.460 --> 00:29:37.289
you see helicopters? FBI questioned the other pilot and the
663
00:29:37.309 --> 00:29:38.789
man said there had been no shooting.
664
00:29:38.809 --> 00:29:39.950
Here we go.
665
00:29:40.690 --> 00:29:43.950
Even with those contradictions the claim survived because why it
666
00:29:44.230 --> 00:29:48.500
was in the files it later appeared among the acts
667
00:29:48.579 --> 00:29:51.259
prosecutors accused the weavers and kevin harris of committing as
668
00:29:51.319 --> 00:29:53.720
part of conspiracy against the government they even shot at
669
00:29:53.960 --> 00:29:55.599
a news helicopter.
670
00:29:55.430 --> 00:29:58.259
A conspiracy against the government that they created.
671
00:29:58.339 --> 00:30:01.299
The Justice Department would eventually criticize that decision because the
672
00:30:01.319 --> 00:30:04.640
prosecution already possessed evidence that no shots have been fired.
673
00:30:06.420 --> 00:30:07.759
None of this, though, made Randy.
674
00:30:07.839 --> 00:30:10.660
One from a frickin' marshal agent and one from the
675
00:30:10.720 --> 00:30:13.180
actual one of the pilots that was on the damn helicopter.
676
00:30:13.359 --> 00:30:13.880
Oh, my goodness.
677
00:30:13.900 --> 00:30:14.779
What are we doing?
678
00:30:15.259 --> 00:30:19.250
But regardless, the government's eyes, none of this made Randy harmless.
679
00:30:19.869 --> 00:30:23.109
He was wanted on a valid warrant, had openly threatened
680
00:30:23.130 --> 00:30:26.309
to resist... and allowed his chariot to carry weapons while
681
00:30:26.349 --> 00:30:29.809
living inside a confrontation he had helped create. They're carrying
682
00:30:29.849 --> 00:30:31.529
weapons because they're in the middle of the woods. You
683
00:30:31.549 --> 00:30:35.150
know what's in those woods in Idaho? Bear, fucking moose.
684
00:30:35.799 --> 00:30:39.799
Sasquatch. Yeah, man. Yeah, man. Yeah, man.
685
00:30:40.359 --> 00:30:42.779
But the difference between an armed man refusing to surrender
686
00:30:42.839 --> 00:30:46.859
and a combat-trained bank robber waiting behind explosives was enormous.
687
00:30:47.059 --> 00:30:49.380
I would too, right?
688
00:30:50.269 --> 00:30:53.089
And by the summer of 92, both versions existed. in
689
00:30:53.109 --> 00:30:56.670
the same federal paperwork. The careful marshals planning the arrests,
690
00:30:56.970 --> 00:30:59.019
they knew some of the information could not be trusted.
691
00:30:59.720 --> 00:31:02.319
But they still had to repair as though the worst
692
00:31:02.359 --> 00:31:06.400
parts may actually be true, I guess. The undercover operation
693
00:31:06.440 --> 00:31:10.920
now had a name, Northern Exposure, and final approval came
694
00:31:10.960 --> 00:31:14.349
in early August. Since the property had not been watched
695
00:31:14.390 --> 00:31:16.750
closely for several months, the team needed one more trip
696
00:31:16.849 --> 00:31:19.589
up the mountain before replacing undercover deputies next door.
697
00:31:19.609 --> 00:31:20.990
It was supposed to.
698
00:31:20.970 --> 00:31:24.950
Be another quiet reconnaissance, A chance to update their information,
699
00:31:25.549 --> 00:31:29.049
find safe positions for the men protecting the operation. But instead,
700
00:31:29.490 --> 00:31:33.750
it would bring armed marshals Randy, Kevin Harris, and 14-year-old
701
00:31:33.809 --> 00:31:36.750
Sammy Weaver onto the same narrow trail.
702
00:31:37.849 --> 00:31:40.359
Wow, talk about fucking... Fate.
703
00:31:40.539 --> 00:31:40.900
Right.
704
00:31:41.039 --> 00:31:41.740
Holy shit.
705
00:31:42.420 --> 00:31:46.579
The surveillance team gathered in northern Idaho August 17, 1992.
706
00:31:46.579 --> 00:31:49.000
Art Roderick, he led the mission, joined by Larry Cooper,
707
00:31:49.079 --> 00:31:52.819
David Hunt, Joseph Thomas, Frank Norris, and William Deegan. who
708
00:31:52.859 --> 00:31:55.839
was an experienced member of the Marshal Services Special Operations Group,
709
00:31:55.859 --> 00:31:59.380
had flown all the way in from Boston. Their assignment
710
00:31:59.400 --> 00:32:01.509
was to update the old surveillance, study the ground around
711
00:32:01.549 --> 00:32:04.349
the cabin, identify positions where hidden teams could protect the
712
00:32:04.410 --> 00:32:06.990
undercover couple once they began appearing on the neighboring land.
713
00:32:08.029 --> 00:32:09.710
They were not going up the mountain to arrest Randy
714
00:32:09.730 --> 00:32:12.029
that morning, and they had orders to avoid any confrontation
715
00:32:12.049 --> 00:32:14.809
with the family. About 2.30 in the morning, August 21st,
716
00:32:14.829 --> 00:32:18.190
the six Marshals left their temporary command post on Schweitzer Mountain,
717
00:32:19.049 --> 00:32:20.750
drove part of the way in a van, transferred to
718
00:32:20.769 --> 00:32:24.019
a Jeep, reached their starting point around 4.30. Each man
719
00:32:24.039 --> 00:32:27.279
wore camo, carried a radio, night vision equipment, a handgun,
720
00:32:27.519 --> 00:32:31.740
and a rifle or a carbine. Bulletproof vests, they were available,
721
00:32:31.779 --> 00:32:33.059
but they chose not to wear them because of the
722
00:32:33.099 --> 00:32:36.960
difficult climb. Deegan, he brought several weapons from Boston, including
723
00:32:36.980 --> 00:32:40.329
a sniper rifle, but the team left that behind because, obviously,
724
00:32:40.369 --> 00:32:41.190
what the fuck are you going to do with it
725
00:32:41.210 --> 00:32:41.809
when you're walking?
726
00:32:42.069 --> 00:32:42.269
Right.
727
00:32:43.349 --> 00:32:45.190
Moving in darkness, the marshals followed a trail to a
728
00:32:45.250 --> 00:32:48.339
junction shaped like the letter Y. Hunt, Thomas, and Norris,
729
00:32:48.359 --> 00:32:50.599
they continued toward an observation post on the north ridge,
730
00:32:50.640 --> 00:32:53.059
about a half mile from the cabin. They carried a
731
00:32:53.079 --> 00:32:58.700
spotting scope, a still camera, and a video camera. Roderick, Cooper, Deegan,
732
00:32:58.720 --> 00:33:00.809
they moved closer to inspect the routes around the property.
733
00:33:01.289 --> 00:33:03.769
As daylight came up, the observation team watched Sammy and
734
00:33:03.809 --> 00:33:05.910
Kevin Harris checking the area around the cabin whenever the
735
00:33:05.950 --> 00:33:06.869
family's dogs barked.
736
00:33:07.950 --> 00:33:08.690
I've got patrols.
737
00:33:09.589 --> 00:33:12.970
Roderick's group studied the driveway, outbuildings, the garden, the spring house,
738
00:33:13.009 --> 00:33:15.130
and possible hiding places for the teams that would cover
739
00:33:15.150 --> 00:33:18.529
the undercover operations. At one point, Roderick, he threw two
740
00:33:18.569 --> 00:33:20.250
rocks to see how far the sound carried and whether
741
00:33:20.269 --> 00:33:24.009
the dogs would react. Nothing happened. The men continued toward
742
00:33:24.029 --> 00:33:26.250
the spring house, entering the area closest to the cabin.
743
00:33:27.029 --> 00:33:29.539
Then the observation team radioed that the weavers were responding
744
00:33:29.579 --> 00:33:32.460
to a vehicle coming up the road. Those dogs, they
745
00:33:32.480 --> 00:33:34.240
began barking and people came out of the cabin to
746
00:33:34.279 --> 00:33:37.539
take their usual positions. Vicki, she stayed near the house
747
00:33:37.680 --> 00:33:40.059
as Roderick, Cooper, and Deacon prepared to leave the family's
748
00:33:40.099 --> 00:33:43.319
yellow lab striker. He caught their scent and charged into
749
00:33:43.359 --> 00:33:47.339
the woods. Kevin Harris, he followed with a rifle. Randy
750
00:33:47.380 --> 00:33:50.660
and Sammy came from behind, also armed. Harris later said
751
00:33:50.680 --> 00:33:52.519
the dog's reaction made him think it had found either
752
00:33:52.559 --> 00:33:55.500
a person or a large animal. The marshals knew they
753
00:33:55.519 --> 00:34:00.829
had been discovered and began moving quickly downhill. They crashed
754
00:34:01.029 --> 00:34:03.789
through thick brush, making far more noise than they had
755
00:34:03.809 --> 00:34:08.309
during the approach, while Stryker and Harris continued closing the distance. Roderick,
756
00:34:08.329 --> 00:34:10.150
he believed they could have stopped, hidden in the woods
757
00:34:10.190 --> 00:34:12.210
and opened fire, but their orders were still to avoid
758
00:34:12.230 --> 00:34:12.750
a confrontation.
759
00:34:12.789 --> 00:34:14.570
Right. What the fuck? What are you doing, Roderick?
760
00:34:14.710 --> 00:34:14.949
Right.
761
00:34:15.190 --> 00:34:18.349
They kept retreating until the train narrowed around them. Roderick,
762
00:34:18.389 --> 00:34:20.929
he reached the Y first. Deegan dropped behind a stump
763
00:34:20.949 --> 00:34:22.530
near the edge of the trail, and Cooper moved into
764
00:34:22.570 --> 00:34:25.260
another position as the dog, Harris, and Sammy came through
765
00:34:25.280 --> 00:34:28.559
the trees behind them. The quiet surveillance mission was over.
766
00:34:28.639 --> 00:34:29.039
I bet.
767
00:34:29.480 --> 00:34:32.400
Within moments, Stryker, Sammy Weaver, and William Deegan would all
768
00:34:32.420 --> 00:34:32.780
be dead.
769
00:34:32.800 --> 00:34:32.880
Yeah.
770
00:34:33.960 --> 00:34:35.920
And everyone left alive, they would all tell a different
771
00:34:35.940 --> 00:34:38.500
story about what shot started it and how it happened.
772
00:34:38.559 --> 00:34:40.239
Son of a bitch, dude. Good lord.
773
00:34:41.960 --> 00:34:44.840
Randy, he reached the Y from a different trail, suddenly
774
00:34:44.880 --> 00:34:48.699
found himself about 40 feet from Cooper. Both men appeared surprised.
775
00:34:48.840 --> 00:34:50.079
What the fuck?
776
00:34:50.360 --> 00:34:52.380
Cooper later said he shouted for everyone to back off
777
00:34:52.800 --> 00:34:56.780
and identified the group were United States Marshals. Roderick also
778
00:34:56.860 --> 00:35:00.639
said he yelled for Randy to stop. But Randy turned
779
00:35:00.679 --> 00:35:04.159
toward the cabin and disappeared from his view. Stryker, the dog,
780
00:35:04.239 --> 00:35:07.559
ran around Cooper, growling and circling close enough that Cooper
781
00:35:07.599 --> 00:35:10.380
considered shooting him. He held back because Harris was watching,
782
00:35:11.059 --> 00:35:12.480
and he feared killing the dog in front of him
783
00:35:12.519 --> 00:35:16.389
would start a gunfight, obviously. Stryker moved past Cooper and
784
00:35:16.469 --> 00:35:17.730
ran toward Roderick instead.
785
00:35:17.969 --> 00:35:19.349
We all know Roderick. He's got that trigger.
786
00:35:19.369 --> 00:35:20.570
He's got trigger happy, little fucker.
787
00:35:21.349 --> 00:35:23.989
Harris and Sammy entered the clearing near Deegan, who was
788
00:35:24.050 --> 00:35:27.170
crouched behind a stump. From there, the two versions, they
789
00:35:27.190 --> 00:35:30.230
break apart. Cooper said Deegan rose to one knee, aimed
790
00:35:30.250 --> 00:35:31.670
his rifle, and called out, Stop!
791
00:35:32.030 --> 00:35:32.260
U.S.
792
00:35:32.280 --> 00:35:32.570
Marshal!
793
00:35:33.219 --> 00:35:35.300
According to Cooper, Harris had his back to Deegan, but
794
00:35:35.360 --> 00:35:38.940
spun around and fired his. 30- 06 from waist level before
795
00:35:38.980 --> 00:35:41.260
Cooper could even finish identifying himself.
796
00:35:41.460 --> 00:35:44.039
I don't know about that. The bullet struck Deegan in
797
00:35:44.059 --> 00:35:44.480
the chest.
798
00:35:44.900 --> 00:35:48.260
Cooper fired a three-round burst from a suppressed 9mm at Harris,
799
00:35:48.639 --> 00:35:52.349
who dropped behind cover. Roderick, he was farther down trail
800
00:35:52.889 --> 00:35:54.989
and could not see what was happening between Harris and Deegan.
801
00:35:56.090 --> 00:35:58.469
He heard a heavy shot from that direction, then saw
802
00:35:58.489 --> 00:36:01.230
a striker coming toward him, believing a dog might attack.
803
00:36:01.659 --> 00:36:04.070
or lead the others directly to his position, Roderick fired
804
00:36:04.190 --> 00:36:06.690
once with his M16, hit Stryker near the base of
805
00:36:06.710 --> 00:36:11.090
his spine. Sammy saw his dog fall, cursed at Roderick,
806
00:36:11.110 --> 00:36:14.639
and fired at least two rounds from his Mini-14. Roderick
807
00:36:14.699 --> 00:36:16.800
dove into the trees. Cooper heard the shoot and shift
808
00:36:16.840 --> 00:36:19.840
toward Roderick and tried to reach Deegan. He fired another
809
00:36:19.880 --> 00:36:23.119
three-round burst toward the gunfire. Then he saw Sammy running
810
00:36:23.179 --> 00:36:25.969
uphill toward the cabin. Cooper laid it and insisted he
811
00:36:26.030 --> 00:36:28.889
did not believe he had hit him. Harris' account reversed
812
00:36:28.929 --> 00:36:32.030
the reversed the most important part of that sequence. He
813
00:36:32.050 --> 00:36:35.190
said that Roderick shot Stryker first. Sammy yelled at the
814
00:36:35.230 --> 00:36:38.250
marshal for killing his dog and fired back. Harris, he
815
00:36:38.289 --> 00:36:40.090
claimed that Deegan then came out of the woods and
816
00:36:40.150 --> 00:36:43.090
shot Sammy in the arm. Seeing the boy hit, Harris
817
00:36:43.150 --> 00:36:46.260
raised his. 30- 06 and fired once into Deegan's chest. That's
818
00:36:46.280 --> 00:36:49.659
probably what happened. Under that version, Harris did kill Deegan,
819
00:36:50.079 --> 00:36:52.099
but only after the marshals had killed the dog and
820
00:36:52.159 --> 00:36:55.329
opened fire on Sammy. Harris also said that he did
821
00:36:55.369 --> 00:36:59.130
not hear anyone else identifying themselves as U.S. Marshals until
822
00:36:59.150 --> 00:37:03.789
the shooting was nearly over. Randy's recollection was again different.
823
00:37:04.289 --> 00:37:04.769
He wasn't there.
824
00:37:05.030 --> 00:37:07.449
He remembered hearing someone order him to freeze before the
825
00:37:07.489 --> 00:37:11.110
gunfire began, followed by Striker yelping and the woods erupting
826
00:37:11.159 --> 00:37:14.159
in shots. The entire fight lasted only seconds.
827
00:37:14.360 --> 00:37:15.039
As it usually does.
828
00:37:15.420 --> 00:37:18.780
Deegan's chest wound was fatal. Cooper reached him while he
829
00:37:18.800 --> 00:37:21.820
was still conscious but unable to speak. And within moments,
830
00:37:22.139 --> 00:37:23.300
Deegan stopped breathing.
831
00:37:23.750 --> 00:37:24.889
Should have worn those vests, boys.
832
00:37:25.329 --> 00:37:26.409
Sammy had been hit twice.
833
00:37:26.590 --> 00:37:29.429
One bullet struck near his right elbow, traveled through an arm,
834
00:37:29.489 --> 00:37:32.449
and shattered part of his rifle stock. The fatal round
835
00:37:32.710 --> 00:37:35.679
entered his back, passed through his body from left to
836
00:37:35.739 --> 00:37:39.219
right as he moved toward the cabin. Harris found him
837
00:37:39.280 --> 00:37:42.699
on the trail, tried to help, and realized the boy
838
00:37:42.739 --> 00:37:46.199
was dead. He then carried or helped move Sammy uphill.
839
00:37:46.519 --> 00:37:48.539
This is where Randy and Vicky brought their son's body
840
00:37:48.559 --> 00:37:51.840
into a small shed near the house. The physical evidence
841
00:37:51.880 --> 00:37:56.090
settled some questions. but left the largest one unanswered. Harris
842
00:37:56.309 --> 00:37:59.690
fired the bullet that killed Deacon, something he never denied.
843
00:38:00.150 --> 00:38:04.070
Roderick fired the single round that killed Stryker. Ammo counts
844
00:38:04.110 --> 00:38:06.639
show that Cooper fired six rounds from his 9mm and
845
00:38:06.679 --> 00:38:08.519
that Deacon's M16 had fired seven.
846
00:38:09.519 --> 00:38:11.460
But he only fired a single shot, remember?
847
00:38:11.780 --> 00:38:14.340
Although none of the surviving marshals remember seeing Deacon pull
848
00:38:14.380 --> 00:38:18.619
the trigger. The three marshals stationed at the observation post
849
00:38:18.679 --> 00:38:21.800
did not fire at all. Investigators could not determine how
850
00:38:21.840 --> 00:38:25.300
many shots came from Randy, Harris, and Sammy. Several marshals
851
00:38:25.800 --> 00:38:29.900
thought the first shot sounded like Harris' heavier. 30- 06, but
852
00:38:29.980 --> 00:38:32.710
another one believed the first shot came from a. 223,
853
00:38:32.710 --> 00:38:37.329
the same caliber carried by Roderick and Deegan. They generally
854
00:38:37.389 --> 00:38:39.829
agreed that there had been one shot, then two close
855
00:38:39.849 --> 00:38:43.550
followed together, followed by a burst of gunfire. That was
856
00:38:43.590 --> 00:38:46.820
not enough to identify who shot first. The evidence surrounding
857
00:38:46.860 --> 00:38:50.980
Sammy's death pointed more strongly in one direction. A prosecution
858
00:38:51.019 --> 00:38:54.039
expert concluded the fatal wound was caused by a 9mm
859
00:38:54.059 --> 00:38:57.599
bullet similar to an ammo Cooper carried and entry wound
860
00:38:57.659 --> 00:38:58.219
in the back.
861
00:38:58.659 --> 00:38:58.940
Right.
862
00:38:59.489 --> 00:39:01.510
Making Cooper the most likely person to have fired it.
863
00:39:02.849 --> 00:39:06.030
Years later, tests on a bullet recovered during another search
864
00:39:06.050 --> 00:39:08.949
reportedly matched it to Cooper's gun and found fibers consistent
865
00:39:08.969 --> 00:39:09.829
with Sammy's shirt.
866
00:39:10.630 --> 00:39:11.809
Damn, I went through him, man.
867
00:39:12.250 --> 00:39:15.340
Even then, nothing showed that Cooper deliberately aimed at the boy.
868
00:39:15.800 --> 00:39:18.840
He was firing toward people shooting at marshals. Sammy was
869
00:39:18.880 --> 00:39:23.070
struck while running away. The Justice Department later concluded that
870
00:39:23.090 --> 00:39:25.599
the marshals had not gone to the property planning an
871
00:39:25.659 --> 00:39:28.429
ambush and had shown restraint while trying to retreat.
872
00:39:28.469 --> 00:39:29.789
Well, nobody said they were planning an ambush.
873
00:39:29.849 --> 00:39:29.949
Right.
874
00:39:30.030 --> 00:39:31.250
Mean, holy hell, dude.
875
00:39:31.809 --> 00:39:34.130
It also admitted that the evidence could not produce a final,
876
00:39:34.349 --> 00:39:38.309
reliable order for every shot. The marshal account made Harris
877
00:39:38.329 --> 00:39:40.960
the man who began the fight by shooting Deegan, of course.
878
00:39:41.699 --> 00:39:44.280
The Harris account made Roderick's killing of Stryker the act
879
00:39:44.320 --> 00:39:46.519
that set everything off and placed Sammy under.
880
00:39:46.420 --> 00:39:50.219
Fire before Harris pulled the trigger. Neither version could ever
881
00:39:50.260 --> 00:39:50.559
be proven.
882
00:39:50.579 --> 00:39:52.280
Well, that's what you get when you got a little
883
00:39:52.300 --> 00:39:55.340
14-year-old fucking numbnuts that has a gun. You killed his dog.
884
00:39:55.360 --> 00:39:58.010
I get it. That's all he has. Living on a mountain.
885
00:39:58.050 --> 00:39:59.889
That's all he has is that dog. Right. Right.
886
00:40:00.230 --> 00:40:00.389
Right.
887
00:40:00.929 --> 00:40:01.969
Like, come on now, guys.
888
00:40:01.989 --> 00:40:05.110
You ever watch Where the Red Fern Grows? Damn it.
889
00:40:06.670 --> 00:40:07.050
Old Yeller?
890
00:40:07.309 --> 00:40:08.989
Man. Old Yeller? Yeah.
891
00:40:09.570 --> 00:40:12.809
What remained beyond dispute is that the armed men who
892
00:40:12.849 --> 00:40:15.920
have been trying to avoid one another finally met in
893
00:40:15.940 --> 00:40:21.230
the woods. A federal deputy. 14-year-old boy grieving over his
894
00:40:21.269 --> 00:40:24.969
dead dog. They died within feet from each other. And
895
00:40:25.010 --> 00:40:27.449
each side returned to its own people, believing the other
896
00:40:27.469 --> 00:40:29.289
had fired without cause.
897
00:40:30.429 --> 00:40:32.550
Well, the Weavers, they reached the cabin carrying Sammy's body,
898
00:40:32.610 --> 00:40:34.219
but there was nothing anyone could do for him.
899
00:40:34.260 --> 00:40:34.719
He's gone.
900
00:40:35.280 --> 00:40:37.059
They placed him inside a small building near the house
901
00:40:37.079 --> 00:40:41.460
that Vicki had used when giving birth to Alicia. Randy, Vicki, Sarah, Rachel,
902
00:40:41.480 --> 00:40:43.380
and the baby, they remained around the cabin with Harris,
903
00:40:43.539 --> 00:40:46.340
expecting the men in the woods to come after him. marshals.
904
00:40:46.380 --> 00:40:49.480
They had no idea Sammy was dead, though. From their
905
00:40:49.519 --> 00:40:52.530
position below the house, they heard screaming, crying, and scattered gunfire,
906
00:40:53.150 --> 00:40:55.130
but they assumed the family was reacting to Harris being
907
00:40:55.150 --> 00:40:58.210
wounded or killed. Cooper and Roderick, they stayed hidden with Deegan,
908
00:40:58.250 --> 00:41:01.489
while Norris, who's the team's medic, they tried to help him. Deegan,
909
00:41:01.570 --> 00:41:04.610
he died within minutes. Terrain made his body difficult to move.
910
00:41:05.630 --> 00:41:07.559
Hunt and Thomas, they worked their way off the mountain
911
00:41:07.579 --> 00:41:09.880
to find a telephone and report that a deputy marshal
912
00:41:09.920 --> 00:41:14.400
had just been killed. The call transformed the situation immediately.
913
00:41:15.030 --> 00:41:18.300
It's no longer just a reconnaissance anymore looking for ways
914
00:41:18.320 --> 00:41:21.900
to get the little family next door in. The Marshal Service,
915
00:41:21.940 --> 00:41:23.940
they opened its crisis center in Washington and ordered its
916
00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:25.639
special operations group to Idaho.
917
00:41:25.760 --> 00:41:26.199
Oh, damn.
918
00:41:27.159 --> 00:41:29.500
The sheriff's deputies and Idaho State Police, they moved toward
919
00:41:29.519 --> 00:41:32.320
the property while Governor Cecil Andrus, he declared an emergency
920
00:41:32.360 --> 00:41:35.280
in Boundary County. That allowed the state to open up
921
00:41:35.300 --> 00:41:38.000
the National Guard Armory in Bonner's Ferry and provide equipment,
922
00:41:38.280 --> 00:41:40.059
which included armored personnel carriers.
923
00:41:41.099 --> 00:41:41.239
Wow.
924
00:41:42.059 --> 00:41:44.409
Agents from the FBI, the ATF, the Border Patrol, and
925
00:41:44.449 --> 00:41:47.369
other agencies began arriving as the area filled with vehicles, weapons,
926
00:41:47.429 --> 00:41:48.690
medical teams, and reporters.
927
00:41:48.889 --> 00:41:49.269
Of course.
928
00:41:49.969 --> 00:41:51.889
Late that day, a rescue team moved through rain and
929
00:41:51.929 --> 00:41:54.670
darkness to reach the marshals trapped below the cabin. Cooper
930
00:41:54.710 --> 00:41:55.150
and Roderick.
931
00:41:56.170 --> 00:41:57.570
They refused to leave without Deegan.
932
00:41:58.360 --> 00:42:00.500
After hours in the woods, they and Norris were finally
933
00:42:00.539 --> 00:42:05.239
brought out along with Deegan's body. First reports from the
934
00:42:05.260 --> 00:42:06.599
mountain were incomplete and sometimes wrong.
935
00:42:06.619 --> 00:42:06.739
Always.
936
00:42:06.780 --> 00:42:09.170
Always. What commanders knew for certain was that a federal
937
00:42:09.210 --> 00:42:10.929
marshal had been shot dead while trying to carry out
938
00:42:10.949 --> 00:42:14.369
an operation involving an armed fugitive. They were told Randy
939
00:42:14.409 --> 00:42:17.010
had been near the fight, Harris had fired the fatal round,
940
00:42:17.070 --> 00:42:18.989
and that family had returned to a cabin believed to
941
00:42:19.010 --> 00:42:19.929
contain several weapons.
942
00:42:20.940 --> 00:42:22.260
They also carried forward.
943
00:42:22.019 --> 00:42:26.159
Many of the older claims about automatic guns, fortified positions, tunnels, explosives,
944
00:42:26.420 --> 00:42:30.099
and a family prepared to die. What they didn't know
945
00:42:30.519 --> 00:42:33.420
was that Sammy Weaver had also been killed. From the
946
00:42:33.460 --> 00:42:35.260
federal side, the people in the cabin had just attacked
947
00:42:35.280 --> 00:42:38.159
a team of marshals and could fire in at anybody approaching.
948
00:42:39.079 --> 00:42:41.400
Inside the Weaver property, the family believed hidden agents had
949
00:42:41.440 --> 00:42:44.119
killed their dog and their son, then surrounded them before
950
00:42:44.139 --> 00:42:47.980
they could bury him. Neither side made contact the first day,
951
00:42:48.039 --> 00:42:50.920
capable of changing the other's understanding either. The FBI sent
952
00:42:50.940 --> 00:42:53.679
its hostage rescue team from Quantico, even though nobody inside
953
00:42:53.699 --> 00:42:57.320
the cabin was being held against their will. Eugene Glenn,
954
00:42:57.360 --> 00:42:59.280
the agent in charge of the FBI's Salt Lake City office,
955
00:43:01.079 --> 00:43:02.760
He became the commander at the scene, with the FBI
956
00:43:02.780 --> 00:43:06.699
taking responsibility for the expanding operation, of course. The mountain
957
00:43:06.760 --> 00:43:09.659
was divided into armed positions. Snipers were prepared for deployment,
958
00:43:10.159 --> 00:43:14.420
plans beginning for forcing the people inside to surrender. By
959
00:43:14.440 --> 00:43:16.539
the morning of August 22nd, hundreds of agents and cops
960
00:43:16.559 --> 00:43:18.659
were moving into a place around a cabin occupied by
961
00:43:18.699 --> 00:43:20.980
a grieving family that had no intention of coming out.
962
00:43:22.179 --> 00:43:24.679
The FBI arrived expecting one of the most dangerous confrontations
963
00:43:24.699 --> 00:43:27.519
this hostage team could face. Before its snipers even entered
964
00:43:27.539 --> 00:43:29.860
the woods, commanders gave them permission to use deadly force
965
00:43:30.389 --> 00:43:33.690
Under rules written specifically for Ruby Ridge, you see somebody,
966
00:43:33.710 --> 00:43:34.750
you kill them, basically.
967
00:43:34.829 --> 00:43:36.269
That's fucked up, dude. Wow.
968
00:43:36.449 --> 00:43:39.469
Well, under FBI's normal policy, carrying a gun was not
969
00:43:39.510 --> 00:43:42.119
enough to make someone a target. An agent could use
970
00:43:42.139 --> 00:43:44.679
deadly force only when there was a reasonable relief that
971
00:43:44.699 --> 00:43:47.599
the person posed an immediate threat of death or serious
972
00:43:47.659 --> 00:43:52.159
injury to an agent or somebody else. If possible, the
973
00:43:52.219 --> 00:43:54.909
agent was also expected to identify himself and give a
974
00:43:54.949 --> 00:43:56.389
warning before even firing a shot.
975
00:43:56.409 --> 00:43:57.750
I don't think you're going to do that when you're
976
00:43:57.769 --> 00:43:58.789
a sniper anyways, but.
977
00:43:59.650 --> 00:44:02.030
That policy still gave agents the right to protect themselves,
978
00:44:02.070 --> 00:44:04.190
but it required them to judge what the armed person
979
00:44:04.210 --> 00:44:06.239
was doing at that very moment the shot was taken.
980
00:44:07.510 --> 00:44:10.800
The commanders gathering at Ruby Ridge decided that standard did
981
00:44:10.840 --> 00:44:13.280
not give the hostage rescue team enough room to operate.
982
00:44:14.579 --> 00:44:18.059
They believed that the Weavers and Harris had ambushed Marshalls,
983
00:44:18.380 --> 00:44:21.500
murdered Deegan, fired on a television helicopter, and prepared the
984
00:44:21.519 --> 00:44:22.599
cabin for a final battle.
985
00:44:22.920 --> 00:44:25.519
Even though the helicopter, do they know that the helicopter
986
00:44:25.559 --> 00:44:26.380
was fake by now?
987
00:44:26.420 --> 00:44:27.320
They interviewed the guy.
988
00:44:27.340 --> 00:44:30.260
Geez, old Pete. They interviewed the pilot. Some of the
989
00:44:30.300 --> 00:44:32.219
information was- And the other deputies. Right.
990
00:44:32.480 --> 00:44:34.179
Our marshals even said they didn't hear anything.
991
00:44:34.380 --> 00:44:36.519
And as we know, some of the information was false
992
00:44:36.539 --> 00:44:39.500
or unproven, but it shaped the plan drawn up during
993
00:44:39.519 --> 00:44:42.019
the night of the 21st of August and the following morning.
994
00:44:42.940 --> 00:44:45.739
Special rules said that before any surrender announcement, if an
995
00:44:45.800 --> 00:44:48.659
adult male was seen with a weapon, deadly force can
996
00:44:48.800 --> 00:44:51.409
and should be employed, as long as a shot could
997
00:44:51.429 --> 00:44:55.329
be taken without endangering the children. After the surrender announcement,
998
00:44:55.670 --> 00:44:58.119
the same instruction applied to any armed adult. who was
999
00:44:58.199 --> 00:45:02.469
not trying to give up. Animals that compromise an agent's position, murdered,
1000
00:45:03.070 --> 00:45:06.369
can be. Everyone else remained covered by the FBI's usual policy.
1001
00:45:06.889 --> 00:45:10.010
The most important change was contained in three words, can
1002
00:45:10.510 --> 00:45:13.909
and should. They did not simply allow an agent to
1003
00:45:13.949 --> 00:45:15.139
fire when a threat appeared.
1004
00:45:15.159 --> 00:45:16.300
They basically said, do it.
1005
00:45:16.440 --> 00:45:17.219
They told him that if he.
1006
00:45:17.199 --> 00:45:19.380
Saw an armed adult male and could take the shot
1007
00:45:19.420 --> 00:45:23.059
without hitting the child, get it done, son. Since Randy
1008
00:45:23.079 --> 00:45:25.699
and Harris were two and a half routinely carried guns
1009
00:45:25.860 --> 00:45:28.059
all around their property at every hour of the day.
1010
00:45:28.639 --> 00:45:30.760
The rule made it possible to shoot either man without
1011
00:45:30.800 --> 00:45:33.300
first seeing him aim, fire, or even threaten anybody, which
1012
00:45:33.320 --> 00:45:35.960
is bullshit. It also allowed that shot to happen before
1013
00:45:35.980 --> 00:45:38.840
the FBI can even announce that he is present or
1014
00:45:39.059 --> 00:45:41.920
order the family to surrender. You just do it. Mums
1015
00:45:41.940 --> 00:45:45.260
the word. Responsibility for the wording became a fight of
1016
00:45:45.320 --> 00:45:49.820
its own. FBI Commander Eugene Glenn, Marshal Service Official Wayne Smith,
1017
00:45:49.840 --> 00:45:53.340
they call him Duke, Hostage Rescue Team Commander Richard Rogers,
1018
00:45:54.050 --> 00:45:56.659
and senior FBI officials in Washington all took part in
1019
00:45:56.679 --> 00:46:01.179
discussions as the plan moved between Idaho and headquarters. Rogers,
1020
00:46:01.400 --> 00:46:03.679
he was tied to the change that strengthened the language
1021
00:46:03.719 --> 00:46:06.579
from deadly force to can be used to can and
1022
00:46:06.719 --> 00:46:11.039
should be used. Larry Potts, an assistant FBI director at headquarters,
1023
00:46:11.920 --> 00:46:14.519
and his deputy Danny Colson, they were involved in reviewing
1024
00:46:14.539 --> 00:46:17.599
the operation, but later accounts conflicted over exactly what they
1025
00:46:17.639 --> 00:46:20.539
approved and when they even knew the final wording had changed.
1026
00:46:21.599 --> 00:46:23.260
The order reached the men on the mountain without any
1027
00:46:23.300 --> 00:46:26.739
of those arguments attached. Snipers remembered hearing that any armed
1028
00:46:26.760 --> 00:46:28.800
adult male could be taken out if the shot did
1029
00:46:28.840 --> 00:46:29.809
not put a child at risk.
1030
00:46:29.909 --> 00:46:30.789
That's all they need to know.
1031
00:46:31.190 --> 00:46:34.010
Some later described it as a green light, baby. Others
1032
00:46:34.050 --> 00:46:36.590
said that they understood that the FBI's ordinary deadly force
1033
00:46:36.610 --> 00:46:39.750
policy still applied and that they would not shoot someone
1034
00:46:39.829 --> 00:46:42.050
merely just for carrying a weapon. You would think anybody
1035
00:46:42.070 --> 00:46:45.190
with a reasonable fucking brain wouldn't anyways. The fact that
1036
00:46:45.250 --> 00:46:47.889
trained agents came away with different understandings showed how dangerous
1037
00:46:47.909 --> 00:46:51.489
the wording was before anyone fired. There was another problem.
1038
00:46:52.199 --> 00:46:55.559
It was inside the command post. Negotiators and tactical teams,
1039
00:46:55.579 --> 00:46:59.619
they were working from different assumptions. A negotiator normally needed
1040
00:46:59.659 --> 00:47:02.639
time to build contact, calm the people inside down, and
1041
00:47:02.679 --> 00:47:05.500
find a way to bring them out. The hostage rescue
1042
00:47:05.519 --> 00:47:08.070
team was being sent close to the cabin under instructions
1043
00:47:08.110 --> 00:47:10.389
built around the belief that the armed adults could already
1044
00:47:10.449 --> 00:47:10.909
be shot.
1045
00:47:10.949 --> 00:47:11.650
That's crazy.
1046
00:47:12.289 --> 00:47:14.349
Nobody had yet told Randy that the FBI was there.
1047
00:47:14.710 --> 00:47:17.289
Nobody had ordered Harris to put down his rifle. Nobody
1048
00:47:17.309 --> 00:47:19.389
had announced that the family was surrounded or even offered
1049
00:47:19.449 --> 00:47:23.440
a clear path to surrender. Even so, sniper teams, they
1050
00:47:23.460 --> 00:47:26.570
began climbing into position overlooking the cabin on August 22nd.
1051
00:47:27.489 --> 00:47:31.929
Among them, Lon Horochi, a West Point graduate.
1052
00:47:32.030 --> 00:47:33.449
Horochi? Horochi, yeah.
1053
00:47:33.710 --> 00:47:37.349
A West Point graduate and an experienced FBI sniper. From
1054
00:47:37.389 --> 00:47:38.989
his position in the woods, he could see parts of
1055
00:47:39.030 --> 00:47:41.750
the cabin, the yard, and small shed where Sammy's body
1056
00:47:41.789 --> 00:47:45.199
had been placed. Horochi, he had been told that the
1057
00:47:45.260 --> 00:47:47.199
armed men on the property had already killed a marshal
1058
00:47:47.219 --> 00:47:50.639
and would likely shoot again. He'd also been given rules
1059
00:47:50.679 --> 00:47:52.710
that treated the sight of a gun as enough reason
1060
00:47:52.889 --> 00:47:56.949
to pull the trigger. And by late afternoon, Randy, Harris,
1061
00:47:57.150 --> 00:47:59.590
and Sarah, they stepped into the open near the shed,
1062
00:48:00.309 --> 00:48:04.730
unaware that an FBI sniper had his little crosshairs right
1063
00:48:04.849 --> 00:48:06.539
on him, watching them through a scope.
1064
00:48:07.619 --> 00:48:11.139
Shortly before 6 that evening, Horiyuchi, he watched three people
1065
00:48:11.179 --> 00:48:12.639
come out of the cabin and move toward the shed.
1066
00:48:14.420 --> 00:48:17.070
Shortly before 6 that evening, Horiyuchi... He didn't know who
1067
00:48:17.110 --> 00:48:19.070
these people were, but he could see two adult males
1068
00:48:19.110 --> 00:48:21.190
and a teenage girl. At least one of the men
1069
00:48:21.230 --> 00:48:24.489
carried a long gun. An FBI helicopter was also somewhere
1070
00:48:24.530 --> 00:48:26.739
near the mountain. Horiyuchi said the armed men looked toward
1071
00:48:26.760 --> 00:48:28.940
the sky and began raising his rifle as though he might.
1072
00:48:28.840 --> 00:48:30.760
Fire at it. I don't know about that.
1073
00:48:31.179 --> 00:48:32.099
That man was Randy.
1074
00:48:32.320 --> 00:48:34.159
Maybe if he had a scope on it. He just
1075
00:48:34.199 --> 00:48:34.739
wanted to look.
1076
00:48:35.079 --> 00:48:37.739
What Randy was actually doing is his mains disputed, obviously.
1077
00:48:37.960 --> 00:48:39.590
He said he was lifting the latch on the shed
1078
00:48:39.619 --> 00:48:41.809
so he could visit his son's body. Not preparing to.
1079
00:48:41.789 --> 00:48:42.570
Shoot at a helicopter.
1080
00:48:43.659 --> 00:48:46.639
Horiyuchi places crosshairs on Randy and fired from roughly 200
1081
00:48:46.639 --> 00:48:47.079
yards away.
1082
00:48:47.219 --> 00:48:47.719
Oh, shit.
1083
00:48:48.280 --> 00:48:50.539
Randy moved as the trigger was pulled. The bullet entered
1084
00:48:50.579 --> 00:48:52.639
his back and passed out beneath his right armpit instead
1085
00:48:52.659 --> 00:48:57.500
of striking his spine. Horiyuchi initially believed he missed. Randy, Harris,
1086
00:48:57.559 --> 00:48:59.639
and Sarah had not heard a surrendered man or any warning.
1087
00:48:59.960 --> 00:49:00.260
Right.
1088
00:49:00.559 --> 00:49:02.699
That bullet hitting Randy was the first indication they had
1089
00:49:02.760 --> 00:49:04.940
that FBI snipers were positioned around the cabin. They said,
1090
00:49:04.960 --> 00:49:07.800
don't go outside now. They dropped behind the shed and
1091
00:49:07.840 --> 00:49:10.699
stayed there for somewhere between 10 and 20 seconds. Randy,
1092
00:49:10.719 --> 00:49:13.030
he was bleeding but could still move. When the three
1093
00:49:13.050 --> 00:49:14.590
of them broke from cover, they ran for the cabin.
1094
00:49:14.610 --> 00:49:17.809
Horiyuchi tracked them through his scope. He saw Randy and
1095
00:49:17.829 --> 00:49:20.409
Sarah reach the porch and pass through the door. Harris,
1096
00:49:20.449 --> 00:49:23.409
he came behind them carrying a rifle. Horiyuchi later said
1097
00:49:23.449 --> 00:49:25.019
that he believed Harris was the same man he had
1098
00:49:25.059 --> 00:49:28.059
seen raising the gun toward the helicopter. Although his testimony
1099
00:49:28.079 --> 00:49:29.980
about whether he could distinguish Harris from Randy was not
1100
00:49:30.019 --> 00:49:34.300
always consistent. Harris, he slowed as he reached the porch
1101
00:49:34.340 --> 00:49:36.090
and glanced toward the ridge where the sniper was hidden.
1102
00:49:36.909 --> 00:49:39.489
Horiyuchi fired again roughly 20 seconds after his first shot.
1103
00:49:40.389 --> 00:49:42.590
Harris was almost behind the door when the bullet arrived.
1104
00:49:43.230 --> 00:49:46.039
It passed through a glass pane, entered the cabin, struck
1105
00:49:46.119 --> 00:49:47.679
Vicki in the head as she stood on the other
1106
00:49:47.719 --> 00:49:49.360
side holding 10-month-old Elisheba.
1107
00:49:49.599 --> 00:49:50.280
That sucks.
1108
00:49:50.800 --> 00:49:52.059
The round continued through her.
1109
00:49:52.079 --> 00:49:52.599
Damn.
1110
00:49:53.159 --> 00:49:56.179
It hit Harris in the chest and arm. Vicki, she
1111
00:49:56.199 --> 00:49:59.239
died immediately. Harris fell inside the cabin with a serious
1112
00:49:59.280 --> 00:50:02.610
wound that would continue bleeding throughout the siege. Oriuchi, he
1113
00:50:02.630 --> 00:50:05.190
had not intended to shoot Vicki, obviously. He said the
1114
00:50:05.230 --> 00:50:06.190
open door blocked his view.
1115
00:50:06.210 --> 00:50:07.590
He should have never fucking shot.
1116
00:50:07.630 --> 00:50:08.889
She was standing behind it, right?
1117
00:50:08.969 --> 00:50:10.530
That's what they told you. Idiot.
1118
00:50:10.949 --> 00:50:12.849
Randy and Sarah later said Vicky had come toward the
1119
00:50:12.869 --> 00:50:14.760
porch after the first shot and called out, raising the
1120
00:50:14.780 --> 00:50:17.199
possibility that Horiyuchi could have and should have seen her.
1121
00:50:17.320 --> 00:50:18.079
Obviously he did.
1122
00:50:18.980 --> 00:50:21.400
Sarah also remembered the curtain over the door's glass being opened.
1123
00:50:21.780 --> 00:50:24.000
Other testimony challenged whether Vicky had ever moved far enough
1124
00:50:24.079 --> 00:50:28.099
outside to become visible from Horiyuchi's angle. And Horiyuchi maintained
1125
00:50:28.119 --> 00:50:31.059
that he could not see through the glass. Disagreement was
1126
00:50:31.099 --> 00:50:34.369
never completely resolved, obviously. It was clear that he fired
1127
00:50:34.409 --> 00:50:36.309
at a moving man running through a doorway without knowing
1128
00:50:36.329 --> 00:50:39.030
whether anyone stood behind it, and they specifically said, don't
1129
00:50:39.070 --> 00:50:40.130
harm the kids. How do you know if the kid's
1130
00:50:40.150 --> 00:50:43.900
not running fucking around? Horuchi later said Harris appeared to
1131
00:50:43.929 --> 00:50:45.920
be holding the door or moving someone aside just before
1132
00:50:45.940 --> 00:50:46.260
the shot.
1133
00:50:46.659 --> 00:50:47.840
Right, so someone was there.
1134
00:50:48.019 --> 00:50:49.699
So if he thought another person might be there, that
1135
00:50:49.739 --> 00:50:52.739
made firing even more harder to defend. The reason for
1136
00:50:52.760 --> 00:50:55.780
shooting Harris was also questioned. After the first bullet, nobody
1137
00:50:55.800 --> 00:50:59.099
from the cabin fired back. Randy, Harris, and Sarah then
1138
00:50:59.139 --> 00:51:01.760
ran for shelter. The helicopter had.
1139
00:51:01.699 --> 00:51:02.139
Not been hit.
1140
00:51:02.659 --> 00:51:04.800
Horiuchi later acknowledged that he did not fire the second
1141
00:51:04.820 --> 00:51:06.679
round because he believed Harris would shoot at it once
1142
00:51:06.719 --> 00:51:09.300
he entered the cabin. No one identified the FBI's presence
1143
00:51:09.360 --> 00:51:11.300
or ordered the group to surrender during the time between
1144
00:51:11.320 --> 00:51:14.940
the two shots. The Justice Department later concluded that Horiuchi's
1145
00:51:14.960 --> 00:51:17.820
first shot could be considered reasonable if he truly believed
1146
00:51:17.840 --> 00:51:20.489
Randy was about to fire at the helicopter. Second one,
1147
00:51:20.530 --> 00:51:23.929
that's different. Harris, he was retreating, not shooting, and the
1148
00:51:23.989 --> 00:51:25.369
FBI had time to issue a warning.
1149
00:51:25.389 --> 00:51:25.969
They didn't.
1150
00:51:26.429 --> 00:51:29.030
Investigators, they called the failure to demand surrender before firing
1151
00:51:29.050 --> 00:51:32.170
again inexcusable. Included that the second shot did not meet
1152
00:51:32.210 --> 00:51:33.329
the standard required.
1153
00:51:33.010 --> 00:51:34.989
For deadly force. Just fucking stupid.
1154
00:51:35.380 --> 00:51:38.400
The Senate investigation went even further. Finding that the shot
1155
00:51:38.440 --> 00:51:42.360
violated both normal FBI policy and the Constitution. Although one
1156
00:51:42.400 --> 00:51:44.039
member of the committee disagreed with that conclusion.
1157
00:51:44.119 --> 00:51:44.500
Oh, fuck off.
1158
00:51:44.519 --> 00:51:48.679
None of those findings mattered inside the cabin, though. Randy,
1159
00:51:48.739 --> 00:51:51.769
he was wounded. Harris, he was damn near dying.
1160
00:51:52.010 --> 00:51:52.909
Vicki, she's dead.
1161
00:51:53.789 --> 00:51:57.880
Laying near the doorway. Elisheba, she survived only inches away. Sarah,
1162
00:51:58.139 --> 00:52:00.320
she watched her brother die the day before, announcing her
1163
00:52:00.340 --> 00:52:03.730
mother killed right in front of her. Outside, Horiuchi reported
1164
00:52:03.750 --> 00:52:05.429
they hit fire twice and believed he had struck at
1165
00:52:05.449 --> 00:52:08.429
least one armed man. The agents, they heard a woman
1166
00:52:08.489 --> 00:52:12.309
screaming after the second shot. They didn't know why. Nobody
1167
00:52:12.349 --> 00:52:14.409
in command understood that Vicki was dead, and when the
1168
00:52:14.519 --> 00:52:17.639
FBI finally began calling toward the cabin, negotiators would speak
1169
00:52:17.679 --> 00:52:20.900
to her as though she were still alive. The family
1170
00:52:20.920 --> 00:52:23.820
heard those calls while sitting beside her body. Whatever chance
1171
00:52:23.840 --> 00:52:25.940
the government had of earning their trust had disappeared with
1172
00:52:25.960 --> 00:52:26.920
the bullet through the door.
1173
00:52:26.940 --> 00:52:28.639
You ain't kidding. You fucking idiots.
1174
00:52:28.900 --> 00:52:32.400
Yeah, well, the FBI began calling toward the cabin through loudspeakers,
1175
00:52:33.099 --> 00:52:35.219
asking Randy and Harris to surrender and telling Vicki to
1176
00:52:35.260 --> 00:52:38.960
send the children out. Negotiators did not even know she's dead,
1177
00:52:39.019 --> 00:52:43.449
as we said. Family didn't even answer. Some messages sounded
1178
00:52:43.489 --> 00:52:45.309
painfully casual under the circumstances.
1179
00:52:45.829 --> 00:52:48.710
Come on, Vicki, it's not that serious. Just send the
1180
00:52:48.730 --> 00:52:49.309
kids out.
1181
00:52:49.349 --> 00:52:51.469
Right, including comments about meals and the weather.
1182
00:52:51.690 --> 00:52:52.170
Oh, jeez.
1183
00:52:53.360 --> 00:52:55.659
With others warned that the adults would be held responsible
1184
00:52:55.699 --> 00:52:59.820
if the children were harmed. From inside, the Weavers heard
1185
00:52:59.880 --> 00:53:01.969
agents reputantly call the name of a woman whose body
1186
00:53:02.010 --> 00:53:05.469
was lying beside them. The FBI believed silence was part
1187
00:53:05.489 --> 00:53:08.389
of the family's resistance. Randy and Sarah heard it as
1188
00:53:08.469 --> 00:53:10.670
proof that the people outside either did not know what
1189
00:53:10.710 --> 00:53:13.809
their sniper had done, or they were pretending not to know.
1190
00:53:15.050 --> 00:53:17.980
Harris' condition worsened as the wound in his chest continued
1191
00:53:18.000 --> 00:53:21.619
to bleed. The family had little medication or medical equipment.
1192
00:53:22.230 --> 00:53:24.349
And no safe way to get them to a hospital. Obviously,
1193
00:53:24.369 --> 00:53:27.710
they're surrounded by the cops. There is a safe way
1194
00:53:27.730 --> 00:53:28.550
to give them to the cops.
1195
00:53:28.590 --> 00:53:28.800
Right.
1196
00:53:29.300 --> 00:53:32.159
They also had Sammy's body in the shed. Vicky's inside
1197
00:53:32.179 --> 00:53:36.119
the cabin during the August heat. Randy tried to comfort
1198
00:53:36.139 --> 00:53:38.639
the children while dealing with his own wound, but there
1199
00:53:38.679 --> 00:53:41.719
was no real plan beyond refusing to come out. Beyond
1200
00:53:41.739 --> 00:53:45.420
the mountain, the operations were becoming a national story. Reporters
1201
00:53:45.519 --> 00:53:49.269
upon reporters filled the roads around Naples, while armed supporters,
1202
00:53:49.369 --> 00:53:54.590
white separatists, anti-government activists, and curious locos. They all gathered around.
1203
00:53:54.929 --> 00:53:55.349
Geez.
1204
00:53:55.949 --> 00:53:59.190
Others feared another gunfight if anyone tried to storm the cabin. Some,
1205
00:53:59.349 --> 00:54:01.300
they shouted at the agents and accused the government of
1206
00:54:01.340 --> 00:54:05.559
murdering the family. The FBI brought in armored vehicles, surveillance equipment,
1207
00:54:05.719 --> 00:54:08.400
enough firepower to overwhelm the property, and probably all Idaho.
1208
00:54:09.440 --> 00:54:11.659
But a direct assault still risked killing the children like
1209
00:54:11.679 --> 00:54:15.110
they cared now. Inside the command post, doubts were growing
1210
00:54:15.360 --> 00:54:19.449
about the special shooting rules. 26th of August, the FBI
1211
00:54:19.469 --> 00:54:22.590
withdrew them and returned it to its normal deadly force policy. Oh,
1212
00:54:22.650 --> 00:54:25.670
fucking time. But that could not undo the shots already fired.
1213
00:54:26.789 --> 00:54:29.389
First real break came when the commanders agreed to use
1214
00:54:29.409 --> 00:54:31.489
civilians the Weavers might trust.
1215
00:54:32.449 --> 00:54:35.130
James Gritz, he's.
1216
00:54:35.050 --> 00:54:39.340
A retired army officer, former presidential candidate, with a following
1217
00:54:39.559 --> 00:54:40.860
among anti-government groups.
1218
00:54:42.059 --> 00:54:42.440
Offered easy.
1219
00:54:42.519 --> 00:54:44.460
Anybody could be a former presidential candidate.
1220
00:54:44.480 --> 00:54:45.880
He was like, I'll offer to help, he said.
1221
00:54:46.690 --> 00:54:49.389
He was joined by a retired Phoenix cop, Jack McLam,
1222
00:54:49.769 --> 00:54:53.429
and then later by Jackie Brown, a family friend. Unlike
1223
00:54:53.449 --> 00:54:55.679
the voices coming through the loudspeakers, these were people Randy
1224
00:54:55.719 --> 00:54:59.179
recognized and he believed might understand him. Grits, he climbed
1225
00:54:59.219 --> 00:55:01.559
toward the cabin without a gun and began talking face
1226
00:55:01.579 --> 00:55:05.179
to face. 28th of August, Randy finally told him that
1227
00:55:05.219 --> 00:55:07.619
Vicki had been killed. That is the first time the
1228
00:55:07.679 --> 00:55:11.090
FBI learned. with certainty that a sniper's bullet had struck
1229
00:55:11.489 --> 00:55:15.869
an innocent person. Negotiating continued while Gritz carried messages between
1230
00:55:15.909 --> 00:55:20.389
Randy and the commanders below. Harris needed treatment first. By then,
1231
00:55:20.429 --> 00:55:22.289
his wound had become so faint that he had reportedly
1232
00:55:22.329 --> 00:55:23.789
asked Randy, Just kill him.
1233
00:55:24.389 --> 00:55:25.329
Please kill me, buddy.
1234
00:55:25.349 --> 00:55:28.269
I don't want to remain trapped and suffer and die
1235
00:55:28.489 --> 00:55:32.639
or go to jail. Gritz and McLam convinced him that
1236
00:55:32.659 --> 00:55:34.880
the surrender did not mean that he would be executed
1237
00:55:34.960 --> 00:55:35.860
once he reached the agent's.
1238
00:55:37.639 --> 00:55:38.599
I hope not. Right.
1239
00:55:39.099 --> 00:55:41.300
August 30th, Harris was carried down the mountain on a
1240
00:55:41.320 --> 00:55:44.099
stretcher and flown to a hospital in Spokane. Vicki's body
1241
00:55:44.300 --> 00:55:46.820
removed as well, ending more than a week in which
1242
00:55:46.860 --> 00:55:48.860
her children had lived within feet of her remains.
1243
00:55:48.880 --> 00:55:51.280
That's crazy. After like two days.
1244
00:55:51.860 --> 00:55:54.019
Randy still feared that he would be shot or that
1245
00:55:54.039 --> 00:55:57.449
the government would take his daughters away. Sarah became central
1246
00:55:57.489 --> 00:56:00.250
to the final decision. Grits worked out terms meant to
1247
00:56:00.289 --> 00:56:02.829
assure the family that everyone would come down safely and
1248
00:56:02.849 --> 00:56:04.889
that the children would be replaced with relatives rather than
1249
00:56:04.949 --> 00:56:08.980
treated as prisoners. 31st of August, Randy stepped away from
1250
00:56:09.000 --> 00:56:10.760
the cabin carrying a 10-month-old Alicia.
1251
00:56:10.800 --> 00:56:16.099
Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Right. Older like Simba.
1252
00:56:16.920 --> 00:56:20.099
Sarah, 10-year-old Rachel, walked behind him with Grits and McLam.
1253
00:56:20.119 --> 00:56:20.619
Beside him, man.
1254
00:56:20.920 --> 00:56:21.099
Right.
1255
00:56:22.099 --> 00:56:25.559
Walked beside them with Grits and McLam. Snipers watched from
1256
00:56:25.599 --> 00:56:29.090
the trees. Agents waited below. The crowd outside the barricades
1257
00:56:29.130 --> 00:56:31.969
fell quiet as the remaining Weavers reached the Federal line
1258
00:56:32.170 --> 00:56:36.670
without another shot fired. Randy arrested immediately and flown to Boise.
1259
00:56:37.369 --> 00:56:39.670
Harris remained under guard and at the hospital.
1260
00:56:39.809 --> 00:56:40.389
What did he do?
1261
00:56:40.409 --> 00:56:42.570
Well, he did shoot.
1262
00:56:42.750 --> 00:56:43.610
He did kill the guy.
1263
00:56:44.610 --> 00:56:46.389
While the three girls were released to relatives.
1264
00:56:47.449 --> 00:56:50.170
After 11 days, the mountain held the bodies of a mother,
1265
00:56:51.050 --> 00:56:54.960
her son, and a deputy marshal. But no hostages and
1266
00:56:55.000 --> 00:56:58.000
no fortress filled with tunnels or explosives were ever found.
1267
00:56:58.860 --> 00:57:01.820
The government, they now had Randy Weaver and Kevin Harris
1268
00:57:01.840 --> 00:57:02.300
in custody.
1269
00:57:02.860 --> 00:57:04.889
And they were like, Okay, so they didn't do what
1270
00:57:04.909 --> 00:57:07.579
you guys are saying. Right. Just normal fucking mountain men.
1271
00:57:08.599 --> 00:57:11.019
Prosecutors began building a case that blamed them for nearly
1272
00:57:11.219 --> 00:57:12.199
everything that happened.
1273
00:57:12.619 --> 00:57:13.420
They had to do something.
1274
00:57:14.159 --> 00:57:17.239
Once that case reached the courtroom, the agents, the reports,
1275
00:57:17.980 --> 00:57:20.860
the shootings, the missing pieces of evidence would no longer
1276
00:57:20.880 --> 00:57:22.920
be protected by the woods around Ruby Ridge.
1277
00:57:24.579 --> 00:57:27.139
That federal case that reached Boise in April of 1993
1278
00:57:27.139 --> 00:57:30.519
went far beyond the two shotguns and miscourt date. Randy
1279
00:57:30.539 --> 00:57:34.090
and Harris, they faced 10 counts involving conspiracy. murder, assault,
1280
00:57:34.380 --> 00:57:37.860
resistant arrest, gun violations, and crimes committed while Randy was
1281
00:57:37.920 --> 00:57:38.500
free on bail.
1282
00:57:38.820 --> 00:57:39.099
Wow.
1283
00:57:39.659 --> 00:57:42.059
Prosecutors argued the Weavers had been preparing for war against
1284
00:57:42.099 --> 00:57:45.139
the government for years. That confrontation in the woods was
1285
00:57:45.159 --> 00:57:46.159
the result of that plan.
1286
00:57:46.380 --> 00:57:48.780
Well, they were, but I don't think they were preparing
1287
00:57:48.800 --> 00:57:53.320
to initiate the war. They really didn't. Right.
1288
00:57:54.079 --> 00:57:56.119
Harris, he was accused of murdering Deegan while Randy, he
1289
00:57:56.139 --> 00:57:59.010
was held responsible through the alleged conspiracy, even though he
1290
00:57:59.070 --> 00:58:01.110
never even fired the fatal shot or any shot, I
1291
00:58:01.110 --> 00:58:01.369
don't think.
1292
00:58:01.389 --> 00:58:01.489
Right.
1293
00:58:02.510 --> 00:58:05.989
Gary Spence represented Randy, and David Nevin, he took Harris' case.
1294
00:58:06.829 --> 00:58:08.769
Neither lawyer had to convince the jury that Randy's beliefs
1295
00:58:08.789 --> 00:58:13.150
were admirable. Spence openly rejected his racism and religious extremism.
1296
00:58:13.989 --> 00:58:15.849
His argument was that ugly beliefs did not give the
1297
00:58:15.889 --> 00:58:19.469
government permission to manufacture evidence, hide mistakes, or shoot people
1298
00:58:19.489 --> 00:58:23.099
without cause. As the trial continued, the prosecution's clean version
1299
00:58:23.119 --> 00:58:24.460
of Ruby Ridge began breaking apart.
1300
00:58:25.019 --> 00:58:26.280
Almost instantly, I bet, dude.
1301
00:58:26.599 --> 00:58:29.309
Witnesses contradicted one another about who fired first at the Y.
1302
00:58:30.079 --> 00:58:32.360
The gun evidence could not prove the government's timeline, and
1303
00:58:32.400 --> 00:58:34.469
its own expert pointed toward Cooper as the person who
1304
00:58:34.510 --> 00:58:36.150
fired the fatal bullet into Sammy's back.
1305
00:58:36.210 --> 00:58:36.550
Yep.
1306
00:58:37.750 --> 00:58:40.030
The claim that the Weavers had shot at the television helicopter,
1307
00:58:40.050 --> 00:58:42.289
they fell apart when evidence showed no shots had fired.
1308
00:58:43.349 --> 00:58:46.780
Fadley's testimony exposed unanswered questions about who first suggested cutting
1309
00:58:46.800 --> 00:58:49.559
down the shotguns, and how his payment as an informant worked.
1310
00:58:50.539 --> 00:58:52.960
You only get paid if you provide a solution. Exactly.
1311
00:58:53.599 --> 00:58:56.659
FBI reports and interview notes were produced late, sometimes only
1312
00:58:56.719 --> 00:59:00.739
after witnesses had already testified. Shh. Judge Edward Lodge, he
1313
00:59:00.780 --> 00:59:04.170
repeatedly criticized the government for mishandling evidence and ignoring court orders.
1314
00:59:04.210 --> 00:59:07.650
You guys are supposed to be the tip-top at this shit. Then, Horiyuchi,
1315
00:59:07.670 --> 00:59:09.329
he took a stand with the cabin door sitting in
1316
00:59:09.349 --> 00:59:13.829
the courtroom. Well, damn. Under questioning, he admitted firing at
1317
00:59:13.849 --> 00:59:16.269
Harris and Harris ran for cover, knowing the open door
1318
00:59:16.349 --> 00:59:19.199
could hide someone. The jury, they could see the bullet
1319
00:59:19.239 --> 00:59:21.510
hole and hear how the round passed through Vicki before
1320
00:59:21.570 --> 00:59:25.139
striking its intended target. By the time the prosecution rested,
1321
00:59:25.280 --> 00:59:27.219
Spence believed the government had done more damage to its
1322
00:59:27.260 --> 00:59:28.920
own case than any defense witness could.
1323
00:59:28.960 --> 00:59:35.369
You ain't fucking kidding. Right. Anybody could have defended this case, probably. Well,
1324
00:59:36.769 --> 00:59:38.250
pretty much. Probably. Right.
1325
00:59:39.309 --> 00:59:41.269
He called nobody on the witness stand.
1326
00:59:41.289 --> 00:59:43.469
Why? He just let these guys talk. Right.
1327
00:59:44.050 --> 00:59:46.750
Nevin, he presented Harris' shooting of Deegan as self-defense and
1328
00:59:46.789 --> 00:59:49.849
the defense of Sammy, arguing that Harris fired only after
1329
00:59:49.889 --> 00:59:51.909
the camouflaged men killed the dog and shot the boy.
1330
00:59:52.050 --> 00:59:54.690
And plus, you can't charge him with killing a federal
1331
00:59:54.730 --> 00:59:56.730
agent because, I mean, I guess you could try, but
1332
00:59:56.809 --> 00:59:57.289
they didn't know.
1333
00:59:57.389 --> 00:59:58.309
He didn't identify him.
1334
00:59:58.369 --> 00:59:58.570
Right.
1335
00:59:58.750 --> 00:59:58.929
Right.
1336
00:59:59.940 --> 01:00:04.090
July 8th, the jury rejected nearly the entire prosecution. Harris
1337
01:00:04.130 --> 01:00:05.710
was acquitted of every single charge.
1338
01:00:05.730 --> 01:00:06.210
I bet.
1339
01:00:06.630 --> 01:00:09.230
Randy was cleared of the murder, conspiracy assault, resistant arrest,
1340
01:00:09.269 --> 01:00:10.550
and the original gun violations.
1341
01:00:10.630 --> 01:00:11.050
Oh, shit.
1342
01:00:11.369 --> 01:00:13.349
The jury did find him guilty, only a failing to
1343
01:00:13.409 --> 01:00:15.250
appear and commit an offense while on release.
1344
01:00:15.269 --> 01:00:18.570
There you go. Lodge later threw out the second conviction. Yeah.
1345
01:00:18.719 --> 01:00:20.920
Leaving the missed court appearance as the only count that survived.
1346
01:00:21.099 --> 01:00:21.320
Right.
1347
01:00:21.800 --> 01:00:23.800
Randy, he received 18 months in jail. Really?
1348
01:00:24.559 --> 01:00:27.400
There. Oh, come on. Yeah, that's fucked up.
1349
01:00:27.440 --> 01:00:28.679
We're missing a court date, bros.
1350
01:00:29.630 --> 01:00:30.550
And a $ 10, 000 fine.
1351
01:00:31.150 --> 01:00:32.590
But he already served most of that time and was
1352
01:00:32.630 --> 01:00:34.570
released in December of 93. Look at that shit.
1353
01:00:35.409 --> 01:00:36.659
It's time for Christmas. Right.
1354
01:00:36.880 --> 01:00:38.340
Well, happy Christmas, huh?
1355
01:00:38.420 --> 01:00:38.699
Right.
1356
01:00:39.039 --> 01:00:41.119
The verdict did not end Ruby Ridge, though. It moved
1357
01:00:41.139 --> 01:00:43.099
the investigation from the people inside the cabin to the
1358
01:00:43.159 --> 01:00:44.050
agency surrounding it.
1359
01:00:44.400 --> 01:00:46.800
Now they can file wrongful deaths and all that good thing.
1360
01:00:47.840 --> 01:00:50.619
A Justice Department task force spent months reviewing the ATF case,
1361
01:00:50.739 --> 01:00:54.500
the Marshal Service operation, the sniper rules, the shootings, the prosecution,
1362
01:00:54.860 --> 01:00:57.500
and the handling of its evidence. Its 542-page report found
1363
01:00:57.519 --> 01:01:01.239
no proof The marshals went up to the mountain planning
1364
01:01:01.280 --> 01:01:02.480
an ambush, but never said they did.
1365
01:01:02.559 --> 01:01:02.820
Right.
1366
01:01:03.019 --> 01:01:05.050
And no proof that Sammy had been deliberately targeted.
1367
01:01:05.070 --> 01:01:05.719
Didn't say he was.
1368
01:01:05.780 --> 01:01:06.050
Right.
1369
01:01:06.690 --> 01:01:09.289
Also found that prosecutors had made the arrest harder, that
1370
01:01:09.309 --> 01:01:12.489
the FBI special shooting rules violated normal policy, and that
1371
01:01:12.530 --> 01:01:15.650
Horiuchi's second shot did not meet the legal standard for
1372
01:01:15.670 --> 01:01:16.190
deadly force.
1373
01:01:16.230 --> 01:01:16.469
Nope.
1374
01:01:17.409 --> 01:01:20.389
Senate hearings they followed in 1995, placing agents and senior
1375
01:01:20.409 --> 01:01:22.989
officials before cameras to answer for decisions that had once
1376
01:01:23.050 --> 01:01:29.449
remained inside private reports. FBI Director Louis Freer. He admitted
1377
01:01:29.489 --> 01:01:31.750
that Ruby Ridge had been a series of terribly flawed
1378
01:01:31.809 --> 01:01:35.750
operations and said much of the criticism was justified. Twelve
1379
01:01:35.869 --> 01:01:38.949
FBI employees received some form of punishment or official criticism,
1380
01:01:39.570 --> 01:01:42.329
although Horiyuchi was not disciplined for killing Vicki, of course.
1381
01:01:43.130 --> 01:01:46.170
The damage to the FBI grew worse when E. Michael Cahill,
1382
01:01:47.030 --> 01:01:49.469
as a senior official, he admitted ordering the destruction of
1383
01:01:49.510 --> 01:01:52.010
an internal report critical of the Bureau's actions and then
1384
01:01:52.090 --> 01:01:56.739
lying about it. He pleaded guilty of obstruction of justice
1385
01:01:56.760 --> 01:01:58.260
and received 18 months in federal prison.
1386
01:01:58.260 --> 01:01:59.800
18 months, that's it?
1387
01:01:59.980 --> 01:02:02.219
He got 18 months for that, but Randy Weaver got
1388
01:02:02.219 --> 01:02:03.639
18 months for fucking failing to appear.
1389
01:02:03.659 --> 01:02:07.579
Right. Are you fucking kidding me? Holy shit.
1390
01:02:09.079 --> 01:02:11.840
The Weavers, they did file a wrongful death suit, and
1391
01:02:11.909 --> 01:02:13.949
in 1995, the government agreed to pay $ 1 million to
1392
01:02:14.389 --> 01:02:16.329
each of Randy's three surviving daughters and $ 100, 000 to Randy.
1393
01:02:16.550 --> 01:02:17.469
There you go.
1394
01:02:18.070 --> 01:02:20.570
The settlement included no former admission of wrongdoing, though.
1395
01:02:20.630 --> 01:02:23.309
Whatever. Harris, he later received $ 380, 000.
1396
01:02:22.909 --> 01:02:26.650
Damn right. Idaho, they tried to bring the one criminal
1397
01:02:26.670 --> 01:02:30.510
case that federal prosecutors had declined, though. In 1997, Boundary
1398
01:02:30.530 --> 01:02:35.420
County Prosecutor Denise Woodbury, she charged Horiuchi with involuntary manslaughter
1399
01:02:35.440 --> 01:02:37.900
for firing through the doorway before determining who stood behind it.
1400
01:02:38.000 --> 01:02:39.300
I don't think you can, though. I don't think I
1401
01:02:39.300 --> 01:02:39.840
have immunity.
1402
01:02:40.260 --> 01:02:45.280
It's different because federal and state are different. This case, though,
1403
01:02:45.340 --> 01:02:47.699
was moved into federal court and dismissed on the grounds
1404
01:02:47.719 --> 01:02:49.860
that Horiuchi was protected for actions taken.
1405
01:02:49.639 --> 01:02:51.300
As a federal agent. Yeah, that sucks.
1406
01:02:51.920 --> 01:02:53.980
An appeals court later ruled that enough facts were disputed
1407
01:02:54.019 --> 01:02:56.519
for the case to continue, but a new county prosecutor
1408
01:02:56.559 --> 01:02:59.079
dropped it in 2001, I bet. Uh-huh. Saying too much
1409
01:02:59.119 --> 01:03:02.320
time had passed and a conviction was unlikely anyways. In
1410
01:03:02.360 --> 01:03:04.860
the end, nobody was ever convicted for the deaths of Vicki, Sammy,
1411
01:03:04.940 --> 01:03:05.699
or William Deegan.
1412
01:03:05.780 --> 01:03:06.420
That's fucked up.
1413
01:03:07.900 --> 01:03:08.760
William Deegan won.
1414
01:03:09.059 --> 01:03:09.380
Right.
1415
01:03:10.420 --> 01:03:12.619
Ruby Ridge became a rallying cry for the growing militia
1416
01:03:12.639 --> 01:03:13.949
and anti-government movements of the 90s.
1417
01:03:13.960 --> 01:03:14.800
It did.
1418
01:03:14.920 --> 01:03:17.260
Especially after the siege at Waco the very following year
1419
01:03:17.280 --> 01:03:20.079
with much of the same people. Timothy McVeigh, he later
1420
01:03:20.139 --> 01:03:22.320
pointed to both events when explaining the anger behind the
1421
01:03:22.360 --> 01:03:23.199
Oklahoma City bombing.
1422
01:03:23.239 --> 01:03:23.559
I mean.
1423
01:03:23.940 --> 01:03:25.619
Though that act belonged to McVeigh and not to the
1424
01:03:25.639 --> 01:03:29.409
Weaver family, no shit. But McVeigh, didn't he go down
1425
01:03:29.449 --> 01:03:30.650
to Waco? I'm pretty sure he did.
1426
01:03:31.070 --> 01:03:31.329
Maybe.
1427
01:03:31.769 --> 01:03:33.989
Randy was not an innocent man who dragged into trouble
1428
01:03:34.050 --> 01:03:36.699
without making choices of his own. Obviously, he sold illegal guns,
1429
01:03:37.079 --> 01:03:39.719
refused to appear once he knew he was wanted, filled
1430
01:03:39.760 --> 01:03:42.840
his children with fear, kept them armed inside a confrontation,
1431
01:03:42.900 --> 01:03:44.719
and repeatedly chose resistance over surrender.
1432
01:03:44.739 --> 01:03:50.329
They're just brainwashed somehow. I don't know. Something just clicked,
1433
01:03:50.369 --> 01:03:52.809
especially with her. And you know, he probably loved her
1434
01:03:52.849 --> 01:03:56.079
to death, so. Whatever she, his wife said, Vicky.
1435
01:03:56.320 --> 01:03:58.590
All that reading, that junk, man.
1436
01:03:59.250 --> 01:04:02.909
And then going to those stupid fucking Aryan Brotherhood meetings.
1437
01:04:02.949 --> 01:04:03.630
That's even worse.
1438
01:04:04.530 --> 01:04:07.090
But, though, none of that turned Vicky into a threat, obviously.
1439
01:04:07.530 --> 01:04:09.469
Justified shooting Harris through a doorway, either.
1440
01:04:09.860 --> 01:04:10.010
No.
1441
01:04:10.219 --> 01:04:13.280
Or excused building a massive conspiracy case from rumors and
1442
01:04:13.340 --> 01:04:15.079
evidence the government itself could not even defend.
1443
01:04:15.179 --> 01:04:19.440
Lies! That the own government even created, what, the ATF? Ridiculous. Jesus, Pete.
1444
01:04:20.000 --> 01:04:22.179
Ruby Ridge lasted 11 days, but it took years to
1445
01:04:22.280 --> 01:04:24.130
uncover how many chances there had been to stop it
1446
01:04:24.170 --> 01:04:24.989
before anybody died.
1447
01:04:25.030 --> 01:04:26.289
They shouldn't have even started it.
1448
01:04:27.070 --> 01:04:28.989
They were picking on a guy that was broke and
1449
01:04:29.030 --> 01:04:31.230
was going to sell some fucking guns to fucking somebody.
1450
01:04:31.570 --> 01:04:33.809
Gives a fuck. Sawed off or not.
1451
01:04:34.269 --> 01:04:36.349
By then, though, a family had been torn apart. A
1452
01:04:36.389 --> 01:04:39.309
deputy marshal was dead. The government's attempt to arrest one
1453
01:04:39.349 --> 01:04:41.659
man had created the very nightmare the Weavers had gone
1454
01:04:41.699 --> 01:04:42.739
to the mountain expecting.
1455
01:04:42.760 --> 01:04:43.840
You know what? I don't understand.
1456
01:04:43.860 --> 01:04:44.900
It made it become a reality.
1457
01:04:44.940 --> 01:04:46.780
Somebody wants a sawed-off shotgun. Why don't you just sell
1458
01:04:46.820 --> 01:04:47.519
somebody a shotgun and.
1459
01:04:47.480 --> 01:04:51.539
Be like, fucking sawed off, bud? Right. There you go.
1460
01:04:51.559 --> 01:04:54.980
I'm not going to do it for you. I don't
1461
01:04:55.000 --> 01:04:57.880
have a hacksaw. That's true.
1462
01:04:58.360 --> 01:05:00.199
Here's a shotgun. Saw it.
1463
01:05:00.320 --> 01:05:03.159
Right. I'll do it. Instead of doing a perfectly legal
1464
01:05:03.199 --> 01:05:06.719
fucking transaction. Jeez. Oh, man.
1465
01:05:07.500 --> 01:05:11.840
Well, one of the most corrupt things that ever happened
1466
01:05:11.960 --> 01:05:14.659
in law enforcement history right there, boys.
1467
01:05:15.219 --> 01:05:17.400
Crazy. Terrible. Terrible.
1468
01:05:17.460 --> 01:05:20.139
And then We'll get to Waco later on down the
1469
01:05:20.159 --> 01:05:23.719
line here again. And that was even more worse than this.
1470
01:05:23.820 --> 01:05:25.000
You'd think they would have.
1471
01:05:25.019 --> 01:05:32.699
And speaking of how they mentioned the negotiators, the negotiators
1472
01:05:32.739 --> 01:05:35.619
for Waco were even more fucking dumb.
1473
01:05:35.639 --> 01:05:36.739
It was worse. Yeah.
1474
01:05:36.980 --> 01:05:39.420
We'll get there. But with that, if you're listening on podcast,
1475
01:05:39.460 --> 01:05:41.030
make sure you're giving us a like, sharing us with
1476
01:05:41.050 --> 01:05:43.969
your friends, commenting. If you're listening on YouTube, make sure
1477
01:05:44.010 --> 01:05:46.269
you're hitting that. Bell, so you know when we're going
1478
01:05:46.329 --> 01:05:47.630
live and releasing new episodes.
1479
01:05:47.650 --> 01:05:51.469
You know, the FBI handles itself pretty well because for
1480
01:05:51.570 --> 01:05:52.369
decades they've.
1481
01:05:52.230 --> 01:05:55.380
Been dealing with shit like this. They seem to get
1482
01:05:55.400 --> 01:05:55.800
away with it.
1483
01:05:56.320 --> 01:05:59.320
Seems like at least once every decade, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s,
1484
01:05:59.480 --> 01:06:04.599
something stupid happened.
1485
01:06:04.900 --> 01:06:06.380
Well, in the 30s, it was like several.
1486
01:06:06.659 --> 01:06:06.980
Right.
1487
01:06:07.820 --> 01:06:09.760
They were shooting people and doing all sorts of shit.
1488
01:06:09.940 --> 01:06:10.420
Insane.
1489
01:06:10.480 --> 01:06:10.860
Yeah.
1490
01:06:11.719 --> 01:06:11.880
Yeah.
1491
01:06:14.690 --> 01:06:17.400
Anything else to add before I inevitably try to do
1492
01:06:17.420 --> 01:06:19.039
the closing and you interrupt.
1493
01:06:18.659 --> 01:06:19.320
Me once again?
1494
01:06:19.340 --> 01:06:20.500
That's it, man.
1495
01:06:20.539 --> 01:06:21.590
All right, well, we'll see you next week.
1496
01:06:21.619 --> 01:06:22.340
Oh, wait, no way.
1497
01:06:22.349 --> 01:06:23.329
The Gunslingers.
1498
01:06:23.389 --> 01:06:24.190
We'll see you then.
