![38. [Shoptalk Fall] ThredUp's CEO, James Reinhart: "A leader needs to love the problem"](https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/offbounds/38-shoptalk-fall-thredups-iqUjt19YCke-xJnkmgRB6FQ.1400x1400.jpg "38. [Shoptalk Fall] ThredUp's CEO, James Reinhart: \"A leader needs to love the problem\"")
Paula Macaggi:
00:29
Today, we are diving into a familiar topic here on Offbounce, a segment of the market that is not just growing, it's reshaping the entire industry. The recommerce market, which includes recycling, repair, and reselling, is outpacing even traditional retail, driven by consumers who are increasingly opting for secondhand shopping. I'm here in New York joined by the cofounder and CEO of thredUP, the leader in the online consignment and thrift space. ThredUP has revolutionized the way we think about secondhand fashion, offering a platform for buying and selling pre loved clothing, shoes, and accessories for women and children. But that's not all.
Paula Macaggi:
01:10
He'll also be taking the stage at Shop Dog Fall in Chicago this October 16th to 18th, where the future of retail will be front and center. If you haven't secured your spot yet, check the show notes for an exclusive Offbounce discount to join us at this must attend event. Here's Paola Macaggi, and this is a special retail innovation series of my show in partnership with our only Shoptalk Fall. Welcome to Off Balanced. James, I'm so excited to have you here.
Paula Macaggi:
01:45
Welcome to the show.
James Reinhart:
01:46
Thank you for having me. Great to be here.
Paula Macaggi:
01:47
Are you ready for all the questions I have? Because I think I have so many.
James Reinhart:
01:51
How much time do we have? Yes. I'm ready. I'm ready.
Paula Macaggi:
01:54
Alright. So let's just start with how you build thredUP because I nowadays is something that we talk a lot, secondhand, resell, recycle, repair.
James Reinhart:
02:04
Mhmm.
Paula Macaggi:
02:05
15 years ago when you started, it wasn't that much popular topic.
James Reinhart:
02:09
Yes.
Paula Macaggi:
02:10
How did you know it was the future already?
James Reinhart:
02:12
Yeah. Well, of of course not. But I it has been an interesting journey because there was a time when nobody wanted to talk to me. Right? Nobody cared about what I was talking about.
James Reinhart:
02:21
And, you know, at some point, probably, like, 2014, 2015, there just was this generational shift shift where all of a sudden you had young people who were shopping secondhand. I remember we ran this campaign called, you know, sort of the destigmatization, you know, of secondhand and how now it was cool to shop secondhand. And I just laughed because it was something I've been pounding the pavement on for so long. And then finally, we went from the kids nobody wanted to talk to to, you know, the kids everyone talked to. So it's been a journey.
Paula Macaggi:
02:48
I bet. And yeah. Like, I had up an episode that we talked only about re commerce and how that's growing, and it's growing even faster than the retail market.
James Reinhart:
02:56
So For sure. For sure. Yeah. It's yeah. It's growing about 10 times faster than traditional retail at this point.
James Reinhart:
03:02
And what's interesting is that every time we look at the data around the growth of resale, it appears to be growing, you know, even faster. And so and so much of it is where young people are shopping, how people are thinking about value. And so I think it's an exciting industry. I think one of the things I've been saying for a long time is, you know, it's not a trend. Like, this isn't a fad where people are gonna wake up in a day and be like, nope.
James Reinhart:
03:23
I only wanna buy new again. And I think once that starts to set in for folks who work in the broader retail industry or there wherever you sit, you start to think about, oh, I I need to figure out how to make this work in my business.
Paula Macaggi:
03:35
Yeah. Well, eBay has been doing this kinda, like, for a while. How are you different than eBay, for example?
James Reinhart:
03:41
Yeah. I mean, eBay, kind of the OG in in the resale world. I mean, what's crazy is eBay is now almost 30 years old. And so the big difference is that they wanna stay out of the taking product business. Right?
James Reinhart:
03:54
EBay is a pure marketplace. They connect buyers and sellers. They don't touch anything. They don't really do much in the value added services. For us, our core thesis was that there's a lot of people out there that wanna buy and sell secondhand, but they don't wanna do the work.
James Reinhart:
04:08
And so the thing that eBay has always, struggled with struggle is probably too strong a word, but tried to figure out is, how do we get more supply on the platform? How do we get more people to sell on eBay? We've kinda flipped that on their head and said, well, just send everything to us. And so we run distribution centers all over the country, and we process all the goods for the sellers. And so that's the big difference is that unlike eBay which just connects buyers and sellers, we really sit in the middle.
James Reinhart:
04:33
We think about it as a managed marketplace to help the sellers do all the things they wanna do and then provide this really awesome, browsing experience for buyers. So that's a big difference.
Paula Macaggi:
04:42
Yeah. I don't buy a secondhand. Yeah. I'm sorry, guys.
James Reinhart:
04:45
Not yet.
Paula Macaggi:
04:46
Not yet. Because I find confusing.
James Reinhart:
04:48
Yeah. I
Paula Macaggi:
04:48
find hard.
James Reinhart:
04:49
Yeah. Yeah.
Paula Macaggi:
04:49
Right? Like, if I go to a secondhand, like, a thrift store here in New York
James Reinhart:
04:53
Yeah.
Paula Macaggi:
04:53
There's so many items to look through. Like, it's it's just difficult for me to find. Is that something you'll
James Reinhart:
05:00
One of the core reasons we started the business was that the average person doesn't love their thrift store experience. I'm not saying there aren't millions of people who do. Right? But when you pull a 100 consumers, nobody is like, man, shopping at secondhand stores is the most amazing consumer experience. Right?
James Reinhart:
05:15
People are like, I love the thrill of the hunt. I love some of it, but nobody walks in there and walks out just overwhelmed with the quality of the shopping experience. So I think that's where online can provide a lot of value. And so for thredUP, it's just like shopping on Nordstrom or Amazon. Right?
James Reinhart:
05:28
You can search, you can filter by anything you want. And so and the other thing is you can do it at midnight, you can do it at 3 AM, you can do it when you wake up, and I think that's the other advantage over time. We see a lot of people shopping on their commutes. Know, if you, like, look at the data, on their way to work, on their way home from work. And so all that, I think, gives us an advantage over physical.
Paula Macaggi:
05:46
We'll get into data soon. I'm interested. But, like, now I'm thinking that you have 2 different customer journeys.
James Reinhart:
05:52
Yes.
Paula Macaggi:
05:53
The ones that are selling. Yep. The ones that are buying. Sure. Which I imagine could be the same people too.
James Reinhart:
05:58
Yep. Some of them overlaps.
Paula Macaggi:
06:00
Yep. What is the seller experience? How does it work?
James Reinhart:
06:03
Yeah. I mean, so the for the seller, it's, you go to the site, you order a clean out kit. That's what we call them. And a clean out kit is a bag. And then the bag holds 30 ish items, 15 to £20 worth of stuff.
James Reinhart:
06:15
So think about it as like a large laundry bag. You fill it with all the items you're no longer wearing. You don't need to tag anything, list anything, identify anything, take you don't need to do anything. Literally, you can just stuff it all in the bag. We obviously have standards, and we we sort of educate you.
James Reinhart:
06:28
And you send it to us. So you can leave it outside your door to be picked up. The postal service can pick it up for you. You can take it to FedEx, UPS, however you wanna get it to us, we can get it. And then from our distribution centers, we do all the work then.
James Reinhart:
06:40
Right? So for the seller, it's super convenient. And I think that is the thing that has really unlocked supply in our business. If you
Paula Macaggi:
06:46
don't wanna do the work, we do the work for you.
James Reinhart:
06:48
Yeah. I mean, one of the things that's true, you know, about, I think, Americans is, like, people were getting lazier. Right? So, you know, I I like to think that ThredUp is on trend given that consumers are getting lazier and thredUP is really we position it as it's the easiest way, to get rid of the things they are no longer wearing. And I think the trade off the consumer makes, right, because not everything is free, the trade off they they the customer makes is they don't make as much money.
James Reinhart:
07:11
So if you sell items yourself on eBay, right, or on one of the other peer to peer platforms, you are going to make more money. Right? And it is going to take you a lot more time. And so I think what What
Paula Macaggi:
07:21
is worth of your time?
James Reinhart:
07:22
Yeah. That's exactly right. And so the minute people start to value their time, then I think thredUP is a great opportunity. I think for people who, you know, don't value their time that highly, right, then I think sell or they love the sport of it, I think selling on your own is better.
Paula Macaggi:
07:36
The business model is you taking care of the everything for the seller Yeah. And sending it to the buyer, taking the pictures We
James Reinhart:
07:43
do everything. Yep.
Paula Macaggi:
07:44
Checking each close description. Is that
James Reinhart:
07:47
Yeah. We do the descriptions, all the tagging. We use a lot of technology, to do all that. But, yeah, we do everything. The seller literally doesn't have to do anything.
James Reinhart:
07:54
Now we give the seller some options if they wanna add information, but it's totally optional. And then, yeah. And then for the buyer, it's just like shopping on the Internet. It's pretty easy.
Paula Macaggi:
08:03
And I saw the news that you added a peer to peer experiences on the website. So that changes a little bit.
James Reinhart:
08:11
Well, it's funny. So we've not added peer to peer. It's it's kind of amazing. So back to your first question around 15 years, like, what have we learned? I think one of the things we've learned is that people pay a lot more attention to what we do now.
James Reinhart:
08:22
So the true story is that we simply launched a landing page for peer to peer to get customer feedback. And because we wanted to understand for there was we we were starting to see in the market that there were customers who said, you know, I send some of my stuff to thredUP, but then I sell some of the stuff that I want on my own. And we started to be like, okay. Well, why is it that you're not sending it to thredUP? And what we learned is that there were certain items that they just wanted to whether they were emotionally attached
Paula Macaggi:
08:47
to the item wanna know who's gonna
James Reinhart:
08:49
buy. Right? Or they know that there's something quirky about it or they know it has more value than we might understand about it for whatever reason. And so we wanted to test, like, hey. Would there be a complimentary offering in peer to peer?
James Reinhart:
09:00
So, anyway, we launched this landing page. All it did was click to, like, be on a list and to provide feedback. And I think in, like, the first couple hours we had, like, a couple thousand people. And this was, like, not something that was, like, anywhere you had to this thing was buried. Right?
James Reinhart:
09:14
And it just so happened that somebody who found it posted it on x and and then some that person was being followed by a bunch of other reporters and then reporters picked it up and then it ended up in the in the media. But the true story is we do not have a peer to peer offering.
Paula Macaggi:
09:30
If I wanna sell through your platform to someone else, I can't do it today.
James Reinhart:
09:33
We have no peer to peer offering. But but look, I think what's shown us is that there is some interest and now I'd figure out does that make sense as an offering to our sellers and on what timeline.
Paula Macaggi:
09:42
And I think a lot of the questions I told him this before the interview. I think a lot of my questions that makes me, like, stop and think, like, how does it work? Yeah. It's a lot on the operation side. Sure.
James Reinhart:
09:52
It's crazy.
Paula Macaggi:
09:52
Because one thing is having a fashion brand where you have a 1,000 items for 1 excuse.
James Reinhart:
09:58
Yep. Yep.
Paula Macaggi:
09:59
And you have a 1,000 excuse for a 1,000 items.
James Reinhart:
10:02
Correct.
Paula Macaggi:
10:02
And, like, you have to take the picture. You have to add a description. You have to do everything You do
James Reinhart:
10:06
it all.
Paula Macaggi:
10:06
Including the website. That is ridiculously a lot of work. Yeah.
James Reinhart:
10:10
Yeah. Yeah.
Paula Macaggi:
10:11
Yeah. How do you manage that? Like, can does it even make sense?
James Reinhart:
10:16
Yeah. I mean, so I think at this point, we're a 150 to 200,000,000 unique SKUs, you know, through the platform. So that's just like that's a massive number of unique items. And yeah. So, you know, we how do we manage it?
James Reinhart:
10:30
I think it's been a process over the past, you know, 15 years. We have built logistics, infrastructure, processing capabilities. I think one of the things people underestimate is all of the software. Like, we really think about ourselves as a software technology company and infrastructure company. And it's really through trial and error of, you know, how do you process a 100, 150,000 unique items every day.
Paula Macaggi:
10:53
Sounds very inefficient.
James Reinhart:
10:55
Yeah. Yeah. But but it turns out that, you know, like many things, once you standardize the process and you use technology to assist people, you can make it work. And so I think what we've done what we've seen over the last probably 5, 6 years is we look at the processes that are really labor intensive. Right?
James Reinhart:
11:10
So whether it's inspection or adding itemization to the items, whatever those processes are. And we measure our throughput in the company in seconds. So how many seconds does it take to bring an item, you know, in and make it available for sale? And we look at the big blocks where there are lots of seconds being devoted, and then we invent technology to make that better, easier, faster.
Paula Macaggi:
11:30
So you you first see the need Yeah. Yeah. We should make this faster to make it more efficient.
James Reinhart:
11:37
Absolutely. So if I if you take the top that you're wearing, right, there was a time probably 5, 6 years ago where there would have been an associate in our DC who would have tagged it, right, sleeveless, you know, mock or turtleneck. Right? It would have put stripes or it would have added a bunch of stuff. And now we're doing all that using the photos in AI.
James Reinhart:
11:54
Right? So there's less need for folks to properly identify the item. The other really cool thing about the way we're using technology is that I don't know anything about that top. Right? But Is
Paula Macaggi:
12:02
that a chrome, baby?
James Reinhart:
12:03
Right? So but, like, the but, you know, the technology we're using might have been able to identify, hey, it's Abercrombie. It is something that's targeted at city going millennials. Right? Or, like, it then is able to tag all of these things that's fascinating, stuff that we would never have been able to do with one of our associates in the DCs.
James Reinhart:
12:22
And so, again, that's how we're evolving our techno our use of technology in the DCs.
Paula Macaggi:
12:25
That must be I imagine, like, when OpenAI launched Yeah. You were, like, oh, yes. That, like, this is exactly what we needed.
James Reinhart:
12:33
Yeah. I mean, I think it's it has been a lot of the stuff we thought we would build ourselves. Right? So I've always imagined you could use visual technology. My cofounder, Chris, technology entrepreneur, we always knew we'd be able to build something that we wanna tag that top, like, the way that we've we've talked about it.
James Reinhart:
12:47
But I think AI just sort sort of took a fundamental, like, leap forward. So it took something that might have taken us 5 to 10 years, right, to fully build across 50,000 brands. And it just How
Paula Macaggi:
12:57
many millions?
James Reinhart:
12:58
Yeah. A couple 100,000,000 items, 50,000 brands. Right? And then just instantaneously, it enabled us to do more than we ever thought possible, and I think that's what's been, pretty exciting.
Paula Macaggi:
13:07
But the employees can also focus on other things.
James Reinhart:
13:10
Yeah. Quality inspection. Right? Processing more goods, you know, packing out orders. Right?
James Reinhart:
13:15
All the things that that we really do need, you know, associates working at a high level to do. But there's things that the technology can do, the human eye, right, just cannot do as effectively. I'll give you, like, another example. Like, we're now starting to use technology to inspect flaws. So potentially, like, somewhere on that shirt, right, is a loose thread somewhere.
James Reinhart:
13:35
Right?
Paula Macaggi:
13:35
Yeah.
James Reinhart:
13:36
For a human, right, eye to find that would take so much time. But if you run that through a visual AI technology that, like, is evolving, it can say, oh, it's got this small flaw on the lower back hem. Right? And now we're not there for all the items. So you can imagine a world where your photos, they can they can find, you know, stains you might not have seen, pilling you might not have seen, loose threads you might not have seen, stretched out colliery, like, all this stuff that that I think is really hard for people to do.
Paula Macaggi:
14:04
I'm excited to see how the future is gonna develop for that too.
James Reinhart:
14:08
Yes. Me too. Me too.
Paula Macaggi:
14:14
We talked before. Right? Like, that everybody wants to talk to you now.
James Reinhart:
14:18
Well, yeah.
Paula Macaggi:
14:19
Everybody every like, every brand now, they're having resale.
James Reinhart:
14:23
Yeah. Resale as a service. Yeah.
Paula Macaggi:
14:25
How do you offer that to brands? We had Vera Bradley here
James Reinhart:
14:27
Oh, great.
Paula Macaggi:
14:28
A few weeks ago. Yeah. And she was like, oh, we work with Retta.
James Reinhart:
14:31
Yeah. Sure.
Paula Macaggi:
14:31
Sure. How does he work? What what is this partnership?
James Reinhart:
14:33
So there are basically 2 ways that a brand engages with us. So one is that, so that clean out kit that I mentioned, the take back program, one of the things that brands are really committed to is, you know, how do they get their product back. Right? So how do they take back product in their store, online? So we power scaled take back programs for brands.
James Reinhart:
14:51
So we work now with, gonna say, more than 50 brands at this point from Athleta to J. Crew, Madewell. Right? We so we work with all these brands to power, take back, which is really important for them, not just because it's good for the consumer, but it's really good for how they think about and talk about sustainability, circularity. That's kinda one, take back.
James Reinhart:
15:08
The second is that we then process all of those goods inside our facilities and we power resale shops for them. So now if you go to a number of these brands, Vera Bradley is 1, Kate Spade is another, on their navigation, you can find a tab that says secondhand or pre loved or, you know, Madewell calls it Madewell forever. Click on that tab and there's a whole site branded product, right, that is secondhand and all of that is powered by us. And so so we power take back at scale. Right?
James Reinhart:
15:36
Because we we're really the only player that can do this at this scale that's that some of these brands require, and then we power these resale shops. And so it's a nice way for brands to play on both sides and, you know, wanna keep doing it.
Paula Macaggi:
15:47
It. You are a tech company then.
James Reinhart:
15:49
Yes. Absolutely. I mean, I think probably almost to a fault. You know, I think sometimes I didn't grow up in the fashion industry. I think sometimes we over index on the technology and the operations and, you know, we probably need some better merchandising, you know, at the company.
James Reinhart:
16:03
And so, so I think a lot around how do we balance being a fashion company with being a technology company and
Paula Macaggi:
16:08
That's the next step.
James Reinhart:
16:09
Yeah. It it is, actually. I think that the power of of some of the AI tooling that we're doing and sort of where I think the customer wants us to go is is I think better, stronger visual merchandising.
Paula Macaggi:
16:19
You started 15 years ago. Yeah. You already had eBay. You had other bigger players. Sure.
Paula Macaggi:
16:24
What takes from the leader to build something that is disruptive?
James Reinhart:
16:28
Oh, I think that we have been I mean, look, look, over the last 15 years, you've seen a lot of businesses come and go, right, who, you know, positioned as disruptors or innovators. I think for us, we have been obsessed about the problem. And I think a lot and so the problem is how do you get clothes out of consumers' closets as easy and as effectively as possible? How do you make it the shopping experience for secondhand feel indistinguishable, you know, from shopping new? And so I think what gets me out of bed every day and I think why I still love the business, like, to, like, truly love the business is I love the problems because the problems are still really hard.
James Reinhart:
17:04
And
Paula Macaggi:
17:05
They're still there to be solved.
James Reinhart:
17:06
They're still there to be solved. Right? There's no question that we can process more goods. We can make it easier on the seller. There's no question our merchandising and how we use, AI tools to improve how the customer shops can definitely get better.
James Reinhart:
17:18
And so so I think to be a leader in the industry is to have a, you know, a management team, you know, founders who are really, like, really love the problem, like, deeply and wanna keep solving it. And, so I think that's where we've been. We are not in love with our solution. Right? I think more than anything, I'm, like, I'm kind of the guy who walks in.
James Reinhart:
17:35
I'm, like, let's blow this up. Like, this can be better. And sometimes that's to a fault. Right? But, but I think it keeps the company innovating and evolving.
Paula Macaggi:
17:43
Yeah. I interviewed the author of the book, Fall in Love With the Problem Not Solutions.
James Reinhart:
17:46
Oh, really? Well, there you go. I mean, yeah. Like, I didn't even know that book existed. But, yes, that's how I think about
Paula Macaggi:
17:51
the world. That's a book. Yeah. He founded ways. So he's trying to to
James Reinhart:
17:55
solve Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Paula Macaggi:
17:56
But, yeah, he said, like, the easiest way to add value to your customer is to focus on the problem and not the solution.
James Reinhart:
18:02
Yes. Yeah. I know. And it's easy. It's easy to get so solution oriented.
James Reinhart:
18:06
And I think the other piece is to really to build products that or build features that customers don't need. Right?
Paula Macaggi:
18:12
Just because you wanna build it.
James Reinhart:
18:13
Just because you wanna build it. Like, I love Waze. I use it all the time, and it, like, fundamentally solves, like, my how do I get from point a to point b as as effectively as possible. But it also does all this other stuff I don't really need. Right?
James Reinhart:
18:24
And so, you know, it's funny how, like, I'm sure that there are lots of people who use the how do I find gas feature on Waze. Right? But, like, I was looking at that. I'm like, I don't need that. You know?
James Reinhart:
18:32
Yeah. Yeah. Anyway
Paula Macaggi:
18:33
Well, we are here because of Shop Talk Fall Yes. Which is gonna be their first event happening in fall. And in Chicago, we don't have to go to Vegas. Yes. Which is a plus.
James Reinhart:
18:44
Yeah. It is
Paula Macaggi:
18:45
a plus. I know that they have a lot of exciting new things happening. Yeah. One of them is that a lot of women are gonna be on stage, which is very exciting too.
James Reinhart:
18:54
You are you were I'm not a woman, but I will be
Paula Macaggi:
18:56
You're not a woman, but technically, you're working in fashion. I think you see how few of us
James Reinhart:
19:00
Yes. Yes. Yes. Are
Paula Macaggi:
19:01
in the leadership position, which is super exciting. What are you looking forward to see at Shop Top this fall?
James Reinhart:
19:07
I think what, you know, what I've gathered from the fall event is that it is gonna be smaller and more curated, like, set of content. I think the quality bar on, you know, the people they're putting on stage, sort of the inclusion, you know, of more female leaders. I think all those things are really good. For me, the power of the conferences is how do they build intimacy into these bigger events? And I think, you know, talking to the Shopdog team, I think that's one of their core the core pieces for this event.
James Reinhart:
19:32
And, you know, as we talked about earlier, like, right, all conferences, they get really big. And so how do you, within the capacity of a big event, build opportunity for people to connect and so
Paula Macaggi:
19:40
How much can you grow and still be intimate?
James Reinhart:
19:43
Yeah. And I think that's really it's a challenge for all all events. Right? And, and so I'm looking forward to that.
Paula Macaggi:
19:49
Me too. Especially because it's in Chicago, you're gonna eat the pizza.
James Reinhart:
19:52
I'm always. Always. In fact, there's a pizza place right by my house called Zachary's Chicago Pizza, which has been there for a very long time. And, so I'm very familiar with, Chicago deep dish pizza.
Paula Macaggi:
20:03
I haven't eaten that yet.
James Reinhart:
20:04
Oh, you're missing out. You're missing out.
Paula Macaggi:
20:06
Yeah. I asked other people here, like, if they have a store to visit. Do you have you worked with the stores, like, pop up stores for thredUP?
James Reinhart:
20:13
Yes. We've done pop ups. We actually did a pop up in Brooklyn here a few years ago, with Madewell, our resale partner. We've had stores we had some stores in Texas. We had some stores in California.
James Reinhart:
20:24
So we have experimented with stores. Unfortunately, so much of our experimentation was happening 2019, like, into 2020, and then the pandemic obviously really hurt that experimentation. And so I ultimately think we'll get back to some of that, but right now we're we're storeless as they say.
Paula Macaggi:
20:39
Alright. I
James Reinhart:
20:40
will figure it out.
Paula Macaggi:
20:41
I will visit 1. Just just check it out. Like, if you if you manage to not have the complex
James Reinhart:
20:46
Yeah. I know. Well, I know. You already told me how much you wish in your store, so we won't we won't build it like that.
Paula Macaggi:
20:50
We'll see. We'll see. And who inspires you in your leadership journey?
James Reinhart:
20:55
Yeah.
Paula Macaggi:
20:55
And should be here with me as well.
James Reinhart:
20:56
Yeah. You know, I think look, there's lots of folks I think in the technology world that I've gotten to know that are inspiring me. Reed Hastings and Netflix immediately comes to mind because when you said a story career, he has reinvented Netflix multiple times. I think increasingly back to our prior conversation, I've become more inspired by merchants and fashion leaders who've stood the test of time. Like, I'm I continue to be inspired by what Ralph Lauren's doing.
James Reinhart:
21:22
Right? I think what, Mickey Drexler is doing. So I think those are the types of folks now that because I think it's hard to stay relevant in fashion. Firstenberg, right, like, these people that have been doing this for 2, 3, 4 decades and people still wanna buy their stuff. Eileen Fisher.
James Reinhart:
21:37
Right? Like, all these so those are the people I think now that I'm, like, truly inspired by.
Paula Macaggi:
21:41
Yeah. You have to be really good to understand the new consumer, especially now that you're into super
James Reinhart:
21:45
And and the yeah. The price I mean, if you think if you're a technology leader, you're managing the evolution of technology in a technology company, whether it's Netflix or it's Waze. In fashion, like, you have to be cool every year. Like, the pressure, right, to be cool and relevant every year, I think, is wild. And so, so I think I'm increasingly inspired by that.
Paula Macaggi:
22:05
Exactly what people want.
James Reinhart:
22:06
What people want to invent trends that, you know this is a fan, Sarah from, founded Spanx. Right? She's a new company out building, like, a new, like, sneaker heel that I just saw. And, like, who knows whether people will love it
Paula Macaggi:
22:19
or not?
James Reinhart:
22:19
But I love the fact that, like, she's out there taking a risk to try and be you know, invent, like, a new thing and be relevant. And I think, like, people like that are so cool.
Paula Macaggi:
22:27
I'm sorry, sneaks. I'm waiting to see if that's gonna pick up.
James Reinhart:
22:30
Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I at first, like but at first, you're like, oh, I don't know. But, you know, that's true of just about every That's
Paula Macaggi:
22:35
the first thing we've seen like that.
James Reinhart:
22:37
Don't I mean Maybe it'll be the Yeah.
Paula Macaggi:
22:39
The next trend.
James Reinhart:
22:39
I mean, I remember when when like, when when Apple launched the AirPods, like, right? All it's like, oh my god. It looks like your ears are dripping. Right? That was, like, the first, you know Who wants
Paula Macaggi:
22:48
who wants these watches?
James Reinhart:
22:49
And so, you know, I there's there's so much history around kind of how form factors have evolved and, I'm I'm certainly rooting for it.
Paula Macaggi:
22:56
And I think there are a lot of brands that are asking themselves now, how can I be more sustainable? How can I join the circularity programs? How can I serve my customer better on that Yeah? On that level? Yeah.
Paula Macaggi:
23:07
What would be your advice to someone that is to a brand that is still wondering how to do it?
James Reinhart:
23:11
Yeah. I mean, I think that there is a the risk that I see in the industry broadly is that is really a race to the bottom around fast fashion and how do I make things cheaper to price things cheaper. I think brands, like, if they can figure out how to go the other way, I think making better stuff that consumers are willing to pay a little bit more for. I actually think that's probably the answer. And I think that, again, that's what I think Ralph Lauren has been it's amazing to see a brand that has continued to raise price.
James Reinhart:
23:38
I mean, I think price they basically raise prices every year. But the quality
Paula Macaggi:
23:42
hard to compete with Shein. Yeah.
James Reinhart:
23:43
Yeah. But the quality the quality is real. Right? Like, I just bought something the other day and, like, I got it. And I'm, like, it is meaningfully better, right, than other commensurate products.
James Reinhart:
23:54
And so, I don't know. I think brands need to find out how to balance that quality because once everything is crappy, then that like, once the product quality is crappy, then it truly is like a race to the bottom on price. And so if there's any way
Paula Macaggi:
24:08
to differentiate too much on discounts to make you work.
James Reinhart:
24:10
Yeah. And I you know, and I just think it's I think it's not a I don't I don't think it's a good place to live. Right? You mentioned Abercrombie. I think Abercrombie is, like, a good example.
James Reinhart:
24:18
Like, it has reinvented the product. Right? And
Paula Macaggi:
24:21
I'm obsessed. I wasn't. No.
James Reinhart:
24:24
You know? And so, I think that the quality of the product does matter. And and so anyway, I think that that's sort of the advice I give folks.
Paula Macaggi:
24:32
Very good. And my last question
James Reinhart:
24:34
Last question. Okay.
Paula Macaggi:
24:35
What is your advice because you built something from you left college and you built it.
James Reinhart:
24:40
Business school, but yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Paula Macaggi:
24:42
What is your advice to someone that is starting now and wants to to build something that is relevant in the world?
James Reinhart:
24:47
I don't know. For me, I think it's somebody we talked about the problem. I think, you know, finding a problem that you love. I think finding a problem that's big. I think sometimes, like, if people wanna build stuff, asking themselves, you know, is this a problem worth, like, worth solving?
James Reinhart:
25:02
And because there's lots of business ideas out there that are problems that may not be worth solving. And so I tell people, like, do you is it a is it a passionate thing that you have for this problem? Is it worth solving? And and then the other pieces I think, especially young and I have 3 kids, so I'm, like, I'm not speaking just from, from no experience. I think there's, like, this instant gratification idea.
James Reinhart:
25:25
And I just I often tell people, like, hey. What where do you wanna be in 10 years? Would you be happy if, like, you were working on this thing 10 years from now? Because that's how long it's going to take. Right?
James Reinhart:
25:34
For me, it's now 15 years. And I think if people are like, yeah, I would love to be working on this 10 years from now. I think if you can answer that, say yes to that. It's a problem worth solving, something you're passionate about. I think those are the recipes for longevity.
James Reinhart:
25:47
And and so that's kinda the way I approach things.
Paula Macaggi:
25:49
Very inspiring.
James Reinhart:
25:50
Thank you so much. Thank you. Next time,
Paula Macaggi:
25:52
we're gonna see each other probably is gonna be in Chicago. I'm very excited to see you on stage there.
James Reinhart:
25:56
Yes. I'll be there. I will see you. We'll eat some pizza.
Paula Macaggi:
25:59
We we we should we shall have the pizza.
James Reinhart:
26:01
Sounds good.
Paula Macaggi:
26:01
That's our Chicago plan. That's awesome. So much for coming, and see you then.
James Reinhart:
26:05
Thank you.
00:29
Today, we are diving into a familiar topic here on Offbounce, a segment of the market that is not just growing, it's reshaping the entire industry. The recommerce market, which includes recycling, repair, and reselling, is outpacing even traditional retail, driven by consumers who are increasingly opting for secondhand shopping. I'm here in New York joined by the cofounder and CEO of thredUP, the leader in the online consignment and thrift space. ThredUP has revolutionized the way we think about secondhand fashion, offering a platform for buying and selling pre loved clothing, shoes, and accessories for women and children. But that's not all.
Paula Macaggi:
01:10
He'll also be taking the stage at Shop Dog Fall in Chicago this October 16th to 18th, where the future of retail will be front and center. If you haven't secured your spot yet, check the show notes for an exclusive Offbounce discount to join us at this must attend event. Here's Paola Macaggi, and this is a special retail innovation series of my show in partnership with our only Shoptalk Fall. Welcome to Off Balanced. James, I'm so excited to have you here.
Paula Macaggi:
01:45
Welcome to the show.
James Reinhart:
01:46
Thank you for having me. Great to be here.
Paula Macaggi:
01:47
Are you ready for all the questions I have? Because I think I have so many.
James Reinhart:
01:51
How much time do we have? Yes. I'm ready. I'm ready.
Paula Macaggi:
01:54
Alright. So let's just start with how you build thredUP because I nowadays is something that we talk a lot, secondhand, resell, recycle, repair.
James Reinhart:
02:04
Mhmm.
Paula Macaggi:
02:05
15 years ago when you started, it wasn't that much popular topic.
James Reinhart:
02:09
Yes.
Paula Macaggi:
02:10
How did you know it was the future already?
James Reinhart:
02:12
Yeah. Well, of of course not. But I it has been an interesting journey because there was a time when nobody wanted to talk to me. Right? Nobody cared about what I was talking about.
James Reinhart:
02:21
And, you know, at some point, probably, like, 2014, 2015, there just was this generational shift shift where all of a sudden you had young people who were shopping secondhand. I remember we ran this campaign called, you know, sort of the destigmatization, you know, of secondhand and how now it was cool to shop secondhand. And I just laughed because it was something I've been pounding the pavement on for so long. And then finally, we went from the kids nobody wanted to talk to to, you know, the kids everyone talked to. So it's been a journey.
Paula Macaggi:
02:48
I bet. And yeah. Like, I had up an episode that we talked only about re commerce and how that's growing, and it's growing even faster than the retail market.
James Reinhart:
02:56
So For sure. For sure. Yeah. It's yeah. It's growing about 10 times faster than traditional retail at this point.
James Reinhart:
03:02
And what's interesting is that every time we look at the data around the growth of resale, it appears to be growing, you know, even faster. And so and so much of it is where young people are shopping, how people are thinking about value. And so I think it's an exciting industry. I think one of the things I've been saying for a long time is, you know, it's not a trend. Like, this isn't a fad where people are gonna wake up in a day and be like, nope.
James Reinhart:
03:23
I only wanna buy new again. And I think once that starts to set in for folks who work in the broader retail industry or there wherever you sit, you start to think about, oh, I I need to figure out how to make this work in my business.
Paula Macaggi:
03:35
Yeah. Well, eBay has been doing this kinda, like, for a while. How are you different than eBay, for example?
James Reinhart:
03:41
Yeah. I mean, eBay, kind of the OG in in the resale world. I mean, what's crazy is eBay is now almost 30 years old. And so the big difference is that they wanna stay out of the taking product business. Right?
James Reinhart:
03:54
EBay is a pure marketplace. They connect buyers and sellers. They don't touch anything. They don't really do much in the value added services. For us, our core thesis was that there's a lot of people out there that wanna buy and sell secondhand, but they don't wanna do the work.
James Reinhart:
04:08
And so the thing that eBay has always, struggled with struggle is probably too strong a word, but tried to figure out is, how do we get more supply on the platform? How do we get more people to sell on eBay? We've kinda flipped that on their head and said, well, just send everything to us. And so we run distribution centers all over the country, and we process all the goods for the sellers. And so that's the big difference is that unlike eBay which just connects buyers and sellers, we really sit in the middle.
James Reinhart:
04:33
We think about it as a managed marketplace to help the sellers do all the things they wanna do and then provide this really awesome, browsing experience for buyers. So that's a big difference.
Paula Macaggi:
04:42
Yeah. I don't buy a secondhand. Yeah. I'm sorry, guys.
James Reinhart:
04:45
Not yet.
Paula Macaggi:
04:46
Not yet. Because I find confusing.
James Reinhart:
04:48
Yeah. I
Paula Macaggi:
04:48
find hard.
James Reinhart:
04:49
Yeah. Yeah.
Paula Macaggi:
04:49
Right? Like, if I go to a secondhand, like, a thrift store here in New York
James Reinhart:
04:53
Yeah.
Paula Macaggi:
04:53
There's so many items to look through. Like, it's it's just difficult for me to find. Is that something you'll
James Reinhart:
05:00
One of the core reasons we started the business was that the average person doesn't love their thrift store experience. I'm not saying there aren't millions of people who do. Right? But when you pull a 100 consumers, nobody is like, man, shopping at secondhand stores is the most amazing consumer experience. Right?
James Reinhart:
05:15
People are like, I love the thrill of the hunt. I love some of it, but nobody walks in there and walks out just overwhelmed with the quality of the shopping experience. So I think that's where online can provide a lot of value. And so for thredUP, it's just like shopping on Nordstrom or Amazon. Right?
James Reinhart:
05:28
You can search, you can filter by anything you want. And so and the other thing is you can do it at midnight, you can do it at 3 AM, you can do it when you wake up, and I think that's the other advantage over time. We see a lot of people shopping on their commutes. Know, if you, like, look at the data, on their way to work, on their way home from work. And so all that, I think, gives us an advantage over physical.
Paula Macaggi:
05:46
We'll get into data soon. I'm interested. But, like, now I'm thinking that you have 2 different customer journeys.
James Reinhart:
05:52
Yes.
Paula Macaggi:
05:53
The ones that are selling. Yep. The ones that are buying. Sure. Which I imagine could be the same people too.
James Reinhart:
05:58
Yep. Some of them overlaps.
Paula Macaggi:
06:00
Yep. What is the seller experience? How does it work?
James Reinhart:
06:03
Yeah. I mean, so the for the seller, it's, you go to the site, you order a clean out kit. That's what we call them. And a clean out kit is a bag. And then the bag holds 30 ish items, 15 to £20 worth of stuff.
James Reinhart:
06:15
So think about it as like a large laundry bag. You fill it with all the items you're no longer wearing. You don't need to tag anything, list anything, identify anything, take you don't need to do anything. Literally, you can just stuff it all in the bag. We obviously have standards, and we we sort of educate you.
James Reinhart:
06:28
And you send it to us. So you can leave it outside your door to be picked up. The postal service can pick it up for you. You can take it to FedEx, UPS, however you wanna get it to us, we can get it. And then from our distribution centers, we do all the work then.
James Reinhart:
06:40
Right? So for the seller, it's super convenient. And I think that is the thing that has really unlocked supply in our business. If you
Paula Macaggi:
06:46
don't wanna do the work, we do the work for you.
James Reinhart:
06:48
Yeah. I mean, one of the things that's true, you know, about, I think, Americans is, like, people were getting lazier. Right? So, you know, I I like to think that ThredUp is on trend given that consumers are getting lazier and thredUP is really we position it as it's the easiest way, to get rid of the things they are no longer wearing. And I think the trade off the consumer makes, right, because not everything is free, the trade off they they the customer makes is they don't make as much money.
James Reinhart:
07:11
So if you sell items yourself on eBay, right, or on one of the other peer to peer platforms, you are going to make more money. Right? And it is going to take you a lot more time. And so I think what What
Paula Macaggi:
07:21
is worth of your time?
James Reinhart:
07:22
Yeah. That's exactly right. And so the minute people start to value their time, then I think thredUP is a great opportunity. I think for people who, you know, don't value their time that highly, right, then I think sell or they love the sport of it, I think selling on your own is better.
Paula Macaggi:
07:36
The business model is you taking care of the everything for the seller Yeah. And sending it to the buyer, taking the pictures We
James Reinhart:
07:43
do everything. Yep.
Paula Macaggi:
07:44
Checking each close description. Is that
James Reinhart:
07:47
Yeah. We do the descriptions, all the tagging. We use a lot of technology, to do all that. But, yeah, we do everything. The seller literally doesn't have to do anything.
James Reinhart:
07:54
Now we give the seller some options if they wanna add information, but it's totally optional. And then, yeah. And then for the buyer, it's just like shopping on the Internet. It's pretty easy.
Paula Macaggi:
08:03
And I saw the news that you added a peer to peer experiences on the website. So that changes a little bit.
James Reinhart:
08:11
Well, it's funny. So we've not added peer to peer. It's it's kind of amazing. So back to your first question around 15 years, like, what have we learned? I think one of the things we've learned is that people pay a lot more attention to what we do now.
James Reinhart:
08:22
So the true story is that we simply launched a landing page for peer to peer to get customer feedback. And because we wanted to understand for there was we we were starting to see in the market that there were customers who said, you know, I send some of my stuff to thredUP, but then I sell some of the stuff that I want on my own. And we started to be like, okay. Well, why is it that you're not sending it to thredUP? And what we learned is that there were certain items that they just wanted to whether they were emotionally attached
Paula Macaggi:
08:47
to the item wanna know who's gonna
James Reinhart:
08:49
buy. Right? Or they know that there's something quirky about it or they know it has more value than we might understand about it for whatever reason. And so we wanted to test, like, hey. Would there be a complimentary offering in peer to peer?
James Reinhart:
09:00
So, anyway, we launched this landing page. All it did was click to, like, be on a list and to provide feedback. And I think in, like, the first couple hours we had, like, a couple thousand people. And this was, like, not something that was, like, anywhere you had to this thing was buried. Right?
James Reinhart:
09:14
And it just so happened that somebody who found it posted it on x and and then some that person was being followed by a bunch of other reporters and then reporters picked it up and then it ended up in the in the media. But the true story is we do not have a peer to peer offering.
Paula Macaggi:
09:30
If I wanna sell through your platform to someone else, I can't do it today.
James Reinhart:
09:33
We have no peer to peer offering. But but look, I think what's shown us is that there is some interest and now I'd figure out does that make sense as an offering to our sellers and on what timeline.
Paula Macaggi:
09:42
And I think a lot of the questions I told him this before the interview. I think a lot of my questions that makes me, like, stop and think, like, how does it work? Yeah. It's a lot on the operation side. Sure.
James Reinhart:
09:52
It's crazy.
Paula Macaggi:
09:52
Because one thing is having a fashion brand where you have a 1,000 items for 1 excuse.
James Reinhart:
09:58
Yep. Yep.
Paula Macaggi:
09:59
And you have a 1,000 excuse for a 1,000 items.
James Reinhart:
10:02
Correct.
Paula Macaggi:
10:02
And, like, you have to take the picture. You have to add a description. You have to do everything You do
James Reinhart:
10:06
it all.
Paula Macaggi:
10:06
Including the website. That is ridiculously a lot of work. Yeah.
James Reinhart:
10:10
Yeah. Yeah.
Paula Macaggi:
10:11
Yeah. How do you manage that? Like, can does it even make sense?
James Reinhart:
10:16
Yeah. I mean, so I think at this point, we're a 150 to 200,000,000 unique SKUs, you know, through the platform. So that's just like that's a massive number of unique items. And yeah. So, you know, we how do we manage it?
James Reinhart:
10:30
I think it's been a process over the past, you know, 15 years. We have built logistics, infrastructure, processing capabilities. I think one of the things people underestimate is all of the software. Like, we really think about ourselves as a software technology company and infrastructure company. And it's really through trial and error of, you know, how do you process a 100, 150,000 unique items every day.
Paula Macaggi:
10:53
Sounds very inefficient.
James Reinhart:
10:55
Yeah. Yeah. But but it turns out that, you know, like many things, once you standardize the process and you use technology to assist people, you can make it work. And so I think what we've done what we've seen over the last probably 5, 6 years is we look at the processes that are really labor intensive. Right?
James Reinhart:
11:10
So whether it's inspection or adding itemization to the items, whatever those processes are. And we measure our throughput in the company in seconds. So how many seconds does it take to bring an item, you know, in and make it available for sale? And we look at the big blocks where there are lots of seconds being devoted, and then we invent technology to make that better, easier, faster.
Paula Macaggi:
11:30
So you you first see the need Yeah. Yeah. We should make this faster to make it more efficient.
James Reinhart:
11:37
Absolutely. So if I if you take the top that you're wearing, right, there was a time probably 5, 6 years ago where there would have been an associate in our DC who would have tagged it, right, sleeveless, you know, mock or turtleneck. Right? It would have put stripes or it would have added a bunch of stuff. And now we're doing all that using the photos in AI.
James Reinhart:
11:54
Right? So there's less need for folks to properly identify the item. The other really cool thing about the way we're using technology is that I don't know anything about that top. Right? But Is
Paula Macaggi:
12:02
that a chrome, baby?
James Reinhart:
12:03
Right? So but, like, the but, you know, the technology we're using might have been able to identify, hey, it's Abercrombie. It is something that's targeted at city going millennials. Right? Or, like, it then is able to tag all of these things that's fascinating, stuff that we would never have been able to do with one of our associates in the DCs.
James Reinhart:
12:22
And so, again, that's how we're evolving our techno our use of technology in the DCs.
Paula Macaggi:
12:25
That must be I imagine, like, when OpenAI launched Yeah. You were, like, oh, yes. That, like, this is exactly what we needed.
James Reinhart:
12:33
Yeah. I mean, I think it's it has been a lot of the stuff we thought we would build ourselves. Right? So I've always imagined you could use visual technology. My cofounder, Chris, technology entrepreneur, we always knew we'd be able to build something that we wanna tag that top, like, the way that we've we've talked about it.
James Reinhart:
12:47
But I think AI just sort sort of took a fundamental, like, leap forward. So it took something that might have taken us 5 to 10 years, right, to fully build across 50,000 brands. And it just How
Paula Macaggi:
12:57
many millions?
James Reinhart:
12:58
Yeah. A couple 100,000,000 items, 50,000 brands. Right? And then just instantaneously, it enabled us to do more than we ever thought possible, and I think that's what's been, pretty exciting.
Paula Macaggi:
13:07
But the employees can also focus on other things.
James Reinhart:
13:10
Yeah. Quality inspection. Right? Processing more goods, you know, packing out orders. Right?
James Reinhart:
13:15
All the things that that we really do need, you know, associates working at a high level to do. But there's things that the technology can do, the human eye, right, just cannot do as effectively. I'll give you, like, another example. Like, we're now starting to use technology to inspect flaws. So potentially, like, somewhere on that shirt, right, is a loose thread somewhere.
James Reinhart:
13:35
Right?
Paula Macaggi:
13:35
Yeah.
James Reinhart:
13:36
For a human, right, eye to find that would take so much time. But if you run that through a visual AI technology that, like, is evolving, it can say, oh, it's got this small flaw on the lower back hem. Right? And now we're not there for all the items. So you can imagine a world where your photos, they can they can find, you know, stains you might not have seen, pilling you might not have seen, loose threads you might not have seen, stretched out colliery, like, all this stuff that that I think is really hard for people to do.
Paula Macaggi:
14:04
I'm excited to see how the future is gonna develop for that too.
James Reinhart:
14:08
Yes. Me too. Me too.
Paula Macaggi:
14:14
We talked before. Right? Like, that everybody wants to talk to you now.
James Reinhart:
14:18
Well, yeah.
Paula Macaggi:
14:19
Everybody every like, every brand now, they're having resale.
James Reinhart:
14:23
Yeah. Resale as a service. Yeah.
Paula Macaggi:
14:25
How do you offer that to brands? We had Vera Bradley here
James Reinhart:
14:27
Oh, great.
Paula Macaggi:
14:28
A few weeks ago. Yeah. And she was like, oh, we work with Retta.
James Reinhart:
14:31
Yeah. Sure.
Paula Macaggi:
14:31
Sure. How does he work? What what is this partnership?
James Reinhart:
14:33
So there are basically 2 ways that a brand engages with us. So one is that, so that clean out kit that I mentioned, the take back program, one of the things that brands are really committed to is, you know, how do they get their product back. Right? So how do they take back product in their store, online? So we power scaled take back programs for brands.
James Reinhart:
14:51
So we work now with, gonna say, more than 50 brands at this point from Athleta to J. Crew, Madewell. Right? We so we work with all these brands to power, take back, which is really important for them, not just because it's good for the consumer, but it's really good for how they think about and talk about sustainability, circularity. That's kinda one, take back.
James Reinhart:
15:08
The second is that we then process all of those goods inside our facilities and we power resale shops for them. So now if you go to a number of these brands, Vera Bradley is 1, Kate Spade is another, on their navigation, you can find a tab that says secondhand or pre loved or, you know, Madewell calls it Madewell forever. Click on that tab and there's a whole site branded product, right, that is secondhand and all of that is powered by us. And so so we power take back at scale. Right?
James Reinhart:
15:36
Because we we're really the only player that can do this at this scale that's that some of these brands require, and then we power these resale shops. And so it's a nice way for brands to play on both sides and, you know, wanna keep doing it.
Paula Macaggi:
15:47
It. You are a tech company then.
James Reinhart:
15:49
Yes. Absolutely. I mean, I think probably almost to a fault. You know, I think sometimes I didn't grow up in the fashion industry. I think sometimes we over index on the technology and the operations and, you know, we probably need some better merchandising, you know, at the company.
James Reinhart:
16:03
And so, so I think a lot around how do we balance being a fashion company with being a technology company and
Paula Macaggi:
16:08
That's the next step.
James Reinhart:
16:09
Yeah. It it is, actually. I think that the power of of some of the AI tooling that we're doing and sort of where I think the customer wants us to go is is I think better, stronger visual merchandising.
Paula Macaggi:
16:19
You started 15 years ago. Yeah. You already had eBay. You had other bigger players. Sure.
Paula Macaggi:
16:24
What takes from the leader to build something that is disruptive?
James Reinhart:
16:28
Oh, I think that we have been I mean, look, look, over the last 15 years, you've seen a lot of businesses come and go, right, who, you know, positioned as disruptors or innovators. I think for us, we have been obsessed about the problem. And I think a lot and so the problem is how do you get clothes out of consumers' closets as easy and as effectively as possible? How do you make it the shopping experience for secondhand feel indistinguishable, you know, from shopping new? And so I think what gets me out of bed every day and I think why I still love the business, like, to, like, truly love the business is I love the problems because the problems are still really hard.
James Reinhart:
17:04
And
Paula Macaggi:
17:05
They're still there to be solved.
James Reinhart:
17:06
They're still there to be solved. Right? There's no question that we can process more goods. We can make it easier on the seller. There's no question our merchandising and how we use, AI tools to improve how the customer shops can definitely get better.
James Reinhart:
17:18
And so so I think to be a leader in the industry is to have a, you know, a management team, you know, founders who are really, like, really love the problem, like, deeply and wanna keep solving it. And, so I think that's where we've been. We are not in love with our solution. Right? I think more than anything, I'm, like, I'm kind of the guy who walks in.
James Reinhart:
17:35
I'm, like, let's blow this up. Like, this can be better. And sometimes that's to a fault. Right? But, but I think it keeps the company innovating and evolving.
Paula Macaggi:
17:43
Yeah. I interviewed the author of the book, Fall in Love With the Problem Not Solutions.
James Reinhart:
17:46
Oh, really? Well, there you go. I mean, yeah. Like, I didn't even know that book existed. But, yes, that's how I think about
Paula Macaggi:
17:51
the world. That's a book. Yeah. He founded ways. So he's trying to to
James Reinhart:
17:55
solve Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Paula Macaggi:
17:56
But, yeah, he said, like, the easiest way to add value to your customer is to focus on the problem and not the solution.
James Reinhart:
18:02
Yes. Yeah. I know. And it's easy. It's easy to get so solution oriented.
James Reinhart:
18:06
And I think the other piece is to really to build products that or build features that customers don't need. Right?
Paula Macaggi:
18:12
Just because you wanna build it.
James Reinhart:
18:13
Just because you wanna build it. Like, I love Waze. I use it all the time, and it, like, fundamentally solves, like, my how do I get from point a to point b as as effectively as possible. But it also does all this other stuff I don't really need. Right?
James Reinhart:
18:24
And so, you know, it's funny how, like, I'm sure that there are lots of people who use the how do I find gas feature on Waze. Right? But, like, I was looking at that. I'm like, I don't need that. You know?
James Reinhart:
18:32
Yeah. Yeah. Anyway
Paula Macaggi:
18:33
Well, we are here because of Shop Talk Fall Yes. Which is gonna be their first event happening in fall. And in Chicago, we don't have to go to Vegas. Yes. Which is a plus.
James Reinhart:
18:44
Yeah. It is
Paula Macaggi:
18:45
a plus. I know that they have a lot of exciting new things happening. Yeah. One of them is that a lot of women are gonna be on stage, which is very exciting too.
James Reinhart:
18:54
You are you were I'm not a woman, but I will be
Paula Macaggi:
18:56
You're not a woman, but technically, you're working in fashion. I think you see how few of us
James Reinhart:
19:00
Yes. Yes. Yes. Are
Paula Macaggi:
19:01
in the leadership position, which is super exciting. What are you looking forward to see at Shop Top this fall?
James Reinhart:
19:07
I think what, you know, what I've gathered from the fall event is that it is gonna be smaller and more curated, like, set of content. I think the quality bar on, you know, the people they're putting on stage, sort of the inclusion, you know, of more female leaders. I think all those things are really good. For me, the power of the conferences is how do they build intimacy into these bigger events? And I think, you know, talking to the Shopdog team, I think that's one of their core the core pieces for this event.
James Reinhart:
19:32
And, you know, as we talked about earlier, like, right, all conferences, they get really big. And so how do you, within the capacity of a big event, build opportunity for people to connect and so
Paula Macaggi:
19:40
How much can you grow and still be intimate?
James Reinhart:
19:43
Yeah. And I think that's really it's a challenge for all all events. Right? And, and so I'm looking forward to that.
Paula Macaggi:
19:49
Me too. Especially because it's in Chicago, you're gonna eat the pizza.
James Reinhart:
19:52
I'm always. Always. In fact, there's a pizza place right by my house called Zachary's Chicago Pizza, which has been there for a very long time. And, so I'm very familiar with, Chicago deep dish pizza.
Paula Macaggi:
20:03
I haven't eaten that yet.
James Reinhart:
20:04
Oh, you're missing out. You're missing out.
Paula Macaggi:
20:06
Yeah. I asked other people here, like, if they have a store to visit. Do you have you worked with the stores, like, pop up stores for thredUP?
James Reinhart:
20:13
Yes. We've done pop ups. We actually did a pop up in Brooklyn here a few years ago, with Madewell, our resale partner. We've had stores we had some stores in Texas. We had some stores in California.
James Reinhart:
20:24
So we have experimented with stores. Unfortunately, so much of our experimentation was happening 2019, like, into 2020, and then the pandemic obviously really hurt that experimentation. And so I ultimately think we'll get back to some of that, but right now we're we're storeless as they say.
Paula Macaggi:
20:39
Alright. I
James Reinhart:
20:40
will figure it out.
Paula Macaggi:
20:41
I will visit 1. Just just check it out. Like, if you if you manage to not have the complex
James Reinhart:
20:46
Yeah. I know. Well, I know. You already told me how much you wish in your store, so we won't we won't build it like that.
Paula Macaggi:
20:50
We'll see. We'll see. And who inspires you in your leadership journey?
James Reinhart:
20:55
Yeah.
Paula Macaggi:
20:55
And should be here with me as well.
James Reinhart:
20:56
Yeah. You know, I think look, there's lots of folks I think in the technology world that I've gotten to know that are inspiring me. Reed Hastings and Netflix immediately comes to mind because when you said a story career, he has reinvented Netflix multiple times. I think increasingly back to our prior conversation, I've become more inspired by merchants and fashion leaders who've stood the test of time. Like, I'm I continue to be inspired by what Ralph Lauren's doing.
James Reinhart:
21:22
Right? I think what, Mickey Drexler is doing. So I think those are the types of folks now that because I think it's hard to stay relevant in fashion. Firstenberg, right, like, these people that have been doing this for 2, 3, 4 decades and people still wanna buy their stuff. Eileen Fisher.
James Reinhart:
21:37
Right? Like, all these so those are the people I think now that I'm, like, truly inspired by.
Paula Macaggi:
21:41
Yeah. You have to be really good to understand the new consumer, especially now that you're into super
James Reinhart:
21:45
And and the yeah. The price I mean, if you think if you're a technology leader, you're managing the evolution of technology in a technology company, whether it's Netflix or it's Waze. In fashion, like, you have to be cool every year. Like, the pressure, right, to be cool and relevant every year, I think, is wild. And so, so I think I'm increasingly inspired by that.
Paula Macaggi:
22:05
Exactly what people want.
James Reinhart:
22:06
What people want to invent trends that, you know this is a fan, Sarah from, founded Spanx. Right? She's a new company out building, like, a new, like, sneaker heel that I just saw. And, like, who knows whether people will love it
Paula Macaggi:
22:19
or not?
James Reinhart:
22:19
But I love the fact that, like, she's out there taking a risk to try and be you know, invent, like, a new thing and be relevant. And I think, like, people like that are so cool.
Paula Macaggi:
22:27
I'm sorry, sneaks. I'm waiting to see if that's gonna pick up.
James Reinhart:
22:30
Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I at first, like but at first, you're like, oh, I don't know. But, you know, that's true of just about every That's
Paula Macaggi:
22:35
the first thing we've seen like that.
James Reinhart:
22:37
Don't I mean Maybe it'll be the Yeah.
Paula Macaggi:
22:39
The next trend.
James Reinhart:
22:39
I mean, I remember when when like, when when Apple launched the AirPods, like, right? All it's like, oh my god. It looks like your ears are dripping. Right? That was, like, the first, you know Who wants
Paula Macaggi:
22:48
who wants these watches?
James Reinhart:
22:49
And so, you know, I there's there's so much history around kind of how form factors have evolved and, I'm I'm certainly rooting for it.
Paula Macaggi:
22:56
And I think there are a lot of brands that are asking themselves now, how can I be more sustainable? How can I join the circularity programs? How can I serve my customer better on that Yeah? On that level? Yeah.
Paula Macaggi:
23:07
What would be your advice to someone that is to a brand that is still wondering how to do it?
James Reinhart:
23:11
Yeah. I mean, I think that there is a the risk that I see in the industry broadly is that is really a race to the bottom around fast fashion and how do I make things cheaper to price things cheaper. I think brands, like, if they can figure out how to go the other way, I think making better stuff that consumers are willing to pay a little bit more for. I actually think that's probably the answer. And I think that, again, that's what I think Ralph Lauren has been it's amazing to see a brand that has continued to raise price.
James Reinhart:
23:38
I mean, I think price they basically raise prices every year. But the quality
Paula Macaggi:
23:42
hard to compete with Shein. Yeah.
James Reinhart:
23:43
Yeah. But the quality the quality is real. Right? Like, I just bought something the other day and, like, I got it. And I'm, like, it is meaningfully better, right, than other commensurate products.
James Reinhart:
23:54
And so, I don't know. I think brands need to find out how to balance that quality because once everything is crappy, then that like, once the product quality is crappy, then it truly is like a race to the bottom on price. And so if there's any way
Paula Macaggi:
24:08
to differentiate too much on discounts to make you work.
James Reinhart:
24:10
Yeah. And I you know, and I just think it's I think it's not a I don't I don't think it's a good place to live. Right? You mentioned Abercrombie. I think Abercrombie is, like, a good example.
James Reinhart:
24:18
Like, it has reinvented the product. Right? And
Paula Macaggi:
24:21
I'm obsessed. I wasn't. No.
James Reinhart:
24:24
You know? And so, I think that the quality of the product does matter. And and so anyway, I think that that's sort of the advice I give folks.
Paula Macaggi:
24:32
Very good. And my last question
James Reinhart:
24:34
Last question. Okay.
Paula Macaggi:
24:35
What is your advice because you built something from you left college and you built it.
James Reinhart:
24:40
Business school, but yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Paula Macaggi:
24:42
What is your advice to someone that is starting now and wants to to build something that is relevant in the world?
James Reinhart:
24:47
I don't know. For me, I think it's somebody we talked about the problem. I think, you know, finding a problem that you love. I think finding a problem that's big. I think sometimes, like, if people wanna build stuff, asking themselves, you know, is this a problem worth, like, worth solving?
James Reinhart:
25:02
And because there's lots of business ideas out there that are problems that may not be worth solving. And so I tell people, like, do you is it a is it a passionate thing that you have for this problem? Is it worth solving? And and then the other pieces I think, especially young and I have 3 kids, so I'm, like, I'm not speaking just from, from no experience. I think there's, like, this instant gratification idea.
James Reinhart:
25:25
And I just I often tell people, like, hey. What where do you wanna be in 10 years? Would you be happy if, like, you were working on this thing 10 years from now? Because that's how long it's going to take. Right?
James Reinhart:
25:34
For me, it's now 15 years. And I think if people are like, yeah, I would love to be working on this 10 years from now. I think if you can answer that, say yes to that. It's a problem worth solving, something you're passionate about. I think those are the recipes for longevity.
James Reinhart:
25:47
And and so that's kinda the way I approach things.
Paula Macaggi:
25:49
Very inspiring.
James Reinhart:
25:50
Thank you so much. Thank you. Next time,
Paula Macaggi:
25:52
we're gonna see each other probably is gonna be in Chicago. I'm very excited to see you on stage there.
James Reinhart:
25:56
Yes. I'll be there. I will see you. We'll eat some pizza.
Paula Macaggi:
25:59
We we we should we shall have the pizza.
James Reinhart:
26:01
Sounds good.
Paula Macaggi:
26:01
That's our Chicago plan. That's awesome. So much for coming, and see you then.
James Reinhart:
26:05
Thank you.
