Lagoon: Ryan Hurley

WEBVTT
00:00:11.359 --> 00:00:13.039
Happy Monday and welcome to the neighborhood.
00:00:13.039 --> 00:00:14.080
I'm Sam Bauman.
00:00:14.080 --> 00:00:15.480
And I'm Adam Rondo.
00:00:15.480 --> 00:00:16.800
And this is not so small.
00:00:17.199 --> 00:00:25.199
Today's guest is Ryan Hurley, owner of Lagoon, a sleep and fitness company that specializes in helping athletes find the perfect pillow to optimize their sleep.
00:00:26.170 --> 00:00:29.730
As you might imagine, Ryan never thought he'd become a pillow salesperson.
00:00:29.730 --> 00:00:34.609
But as an endurance athlete himself, he knows how important getting a good night of sleep is.
00:00:34.609 --> 00:00:38.810
And a pillow is an often overlooked but essential part of sleep.
00:00:39.289 --> 00:00:44.570
Out of his own personal frustration with so many inadequate pillows, he thought, there has to be a better way.
00:00:45.049 --> 00:00:50.969
Now with Lagoon, Ryan is helping athletes and everyday people optimize their rest to improve their day to day lives.
00:00:51.969 --> 00:01:04.769
Ryan talks with us about the challenges of building a business, the importance of finding his niche, and why perseverance and stupidity sometimes look remarkably similar when you're running a business with no finish line in sight.
00:01:04.849 --> 00:01:06.370
I hope you enjoy our conversation.
00:01:11.890 --> 00:01:14.209
Oh, well, I'm so excited to be here today.
00:01:14.209 --> 00:01:15.969
I'm so glad we could make this work.
00:01:15.969 --> 00:01:19.219
So thank you for, for inviting us to your warehouse.
00:01:19.299 --> 00:01:21.299
Thanks for having, thanks for coming out.
00:01:21.299 --> 00:01:21.780
Yeah.
00:01:22.019 --> 00:01:26.420
So maybe you could just start by introducing yourself and telling us about your business.
00:01:26.900 --> 00:01:27.260
Yeah.
00:01:27.260 --> 00:01:28.980
Well, my name is Ryan Hurley.
00:01:28.980 --> 00:01:30.980
I'm the founder of Lagoon.
00:01:31.219 --> 00:01:34.500
I like to consider our business a sleep and fitness business.
00:01:34.900 --> 00:01:43.769
And what we do primarily is we help people improve their sleep by taking care of one of the pain points that people I think don't spend enough time thinking about.
00:01:43.769 --> 00:01:44.730
It's their pillow.
00:01:45.209 --> 00:01:53.370
So can't say that I always like see myself, saw myself becoming a pillow salesperson when I grew up.
00:01:54.090 --> 00:02:01.810
But you know, as I was thinking about what we wanted to create, where we could really make an impact, you know, I had my aha moment one day.
00:02:01.810 --> 00:02:11.330
I was like, yeah, man, like threw another pillow in the guest bedroom that I thought was going to be a good pillow and just died after, you know, three months.
00:02:11.330 --> 00:02:14.629
Whatever it was, I was like, there's got to be a better way for us to do so.
00:02:14.629 --> 00:02:16.629
Started just ideating around that.
00:02:16.710 --> 00:02:22.310
Could, could we actually figure out a better way to help people find the pillow that's right for them?
00:02:22.310 --> 00:02:34.069
Because I mean, while it seems like it is an afterthought, I think I can make a pretty good case why it should potentially be One of the 10, 20 most important purchases you do make, considering how much time you're spending with it.
00:02:34.069 --> 00:02:55.229
So we kind of like started to build the brand around pillow specifically and then, you know, given where our brand has Grown into and given my background as kind of an endurance athlete, have really started thinking about how we can just use Lagoon as a vehicle to help people think about how to optimize their sleep so they can improve their daily performance.
00:02:55.789 --> 00:02:58.909
So that's kind of the mission behind the brand, if you will, too.
00:02:59.949 --> 00:03:05.270
I love that answer because it answers one of the questions I wanted to ask, which is like, why pillows?
00:03:05.270 --> 00:03:05.509
Right.
00:03:05.509 --> 00:03:16.759
Like, you talk about how sleep is really important as an athlete and really for all people, and pillows are certainly a part of sleep, but there's so many different angles that you could have come at this from.
00:03:16.759 --> 00:03:19.840
And it sounds like really, pillows are just the beginning.
00:03:20.240 --> 00:03:21.719
Yeah, well, it is.
00:03:21.719 --> 00:03:22.479
You know, it is.
00:03:22.479 --> 00:03:24.159
It is a question of, like, where.
00:03:24.159 --> 00:03:25.280
Where do you begin?
00:03:25.360 --> 00:03:30.800
And, you know, as somebody that really just, you know, I think I pride myself a lot in thinking about just performance.
00:03:32.240 --> 00:03:34.599
So it's a little bit of a weird juxtaposition.
00:03:34.599 --> 00:03:35.080
Thinking.
00:03:35.080 --> 00:03:36.639
Thinking or talking about sleep.
00:03:36.639 --> 00:03:41.340
Because a lot of times when you're like, if you're sleeping well, it's pretty boring.
00:03:41.340 --> 00:03:42.699
It's like a pretty boring thing, right?
00:03:42.699 --> 00:03:44.219
Like, if you're sleeping well, you're just out.
00:03:44.460 --> 00:03:45.580
So we.
00:03:45.580 --> 00:03:48.780
I like to think about how, you know, we tell stories about.
00:03:49.340 --> 00:03:50.379
I slept well.
00:03:50.460 --> 00:03:51.180
So that.
00:03:51.580 --> 00:03:55.060
And here are the stories about what people do because they optimize their sleep.
00:03:55.060 --> 00:03:57.900
And that's really what kind of makes the space super interesting to me.
00:03:58.139 --> 00:04:04.819
So just thinking about sleep as something that can be optimized, it really is like, I don't generally like to think of things as a means to an end, but.
00:04:04.889 --> 00:04:12.009
But I think in this particular instance, it, like, absolutely is okay to think about sleep as a means to end so that you can go out and do something great the next day.
00:04:12.409 --> 00:04:13.250
and then.
00:04:13.250 --> 00:04:14.009
Yeah, in terms of.
00:04:14.009 --> 00:04:15.530
Of, like, why pillows?
00:04:16.569 --> 00:04:20.927
It really is just because I think there is so much confusion and.
00:04:20.927 --> 00:04:21.290
And.
00:04:21.370 --> 00:04:25.370
And, like, so many options out there without any really clear direction.
00:04:25.769 --> 00:04:33.410
I mean, you guys have probably been in the same scenario too, like in the aisles of HomeGoods or the aisles of Targets, and you're like, I guess I'll get the two pack.
00:04:33.410 --> 00:04:36.170
Or like, yeah, I guess this one, like, feels kind of nice.
00:04:36.670 --> 00:04:41.790
So I just felt like there was a really good opportunity to optimize that.
00:04:42.269 --> 00:04:53.550
And then really interesting because I didn't have any background in textiles, which I didn't realize what a hurdle that would become until I really got into it.
00:04:54.189 --> 00:04:55.550
But, man, I've learned a lot.
00:04:55.629 --> 00:05:00.670
And I think it shows in the product and how the product has evolved over the past couple years as well, too.
00:05:01.069 --> 00:05:07.329
But it really can make such a difference in terms of the materials you use, how soft something is, how breathable it is.
00:05:07.329 --> 00:05:09.970
So, like, I'm really happy with where our lineup is today.
00:05:10.689 --> 00:05:13.810
And, you know, I think what's really interesting to see is just the.
00:05:13.970 --> 00:05:16.209
The reviews we hear from people and.
00:05:16.209 --> 00:05:22.769
And like, even people using their aura ring or their sleep data and showing how much a pillow actually can improve the quality of your sleep, too.
00:05:23.250 --> 00:05:37.779
So it's great to actually be realizing today that, like, this one object we identified as something that could be critical kind of in your entire sleep setup that actually has made a lot of difference for a lot of our consumers.
00:05:37.860 --> 00:05:44.180
I think the things that you think about most when you think about a pillow is like, neck, back, shoulder pain.
00:05:44.339 --> 00:05:48.579
And those are the things we hear about all the time in our reviews that we really help solve.
00:05:48.980 --> 00:06:02.670
But then the things you probably don't think about quite as much as how much it can improve the quality of your deep sleep and your REM sleep, which, I mean, in today's day and age, with everybody being so connected to their sleep scores and their devices and everything, people are talking about a lot.
00:06:02.670 --> 00:06:18.790
And what's been interesting is that I think we found that when you find a pill that's right for you get more comfortable quicker, so you fall asleep easier, and you're not constantly trying to find that sweet spot throughout the course of the night, so you're actually staying asleep.
00:06:18.790 --> 00:06:23.310
You're not tossing and turning as much, and that means you're just getting into fuller cycles of sleep, too.
00:06:23.310 --> 00:06:26.430
So that's really how you improve the quality of your sleep as well.
00:06:27.879 --> 00:06:34.319
Yeah, kind of like, you know, I feel like I spend a lot of my time convincing people, like, why, you know, why.
00:06:34.319 --> 00:06:36.319
Why you really should be thinking about your pillow.
00:06:36.319 --> 00:06:40.120
But I think people are definitely coming around to it, for sure.
00:06:40.199 --> 00:06:40.519
Yeah.
00:06:40.519 --> 00:06:47.720
It sounds like you're seeing some actual feedback and evidence that this is an important entry point for improving sleep, for sure.
00:06:48.199 --> 00:06:50.519
I'm curious to hear more about.
00:06:50.600 --> 00:06:58.139
So when you identified this opportunity, then you were like, okay, this is something I want to explore.
00:06:58.220 --> 00:07:00.420
What was even your first step in trying.
00:07:00.420 --> 00:07:03.339
You know, you talked about having no experience with textiles.
00:07:03.339 --> 00:07:11.259
Yeah, well, the one thing I did have experience in was kind of just, like, with startups in general, my.
00:07:11.259 --> 00:07:15.220
In my previous life working with NBC Sports, I was on the business development side of things.
00:07:15.220 --> 00:07:17.980
And so we saw startups all the time.
00:07:17.980 --> 00:07:25.639
So I got to meet with founders and, like, because they were either interested in partnering with NBC Sports or potentially having an investment or an acquisition.
00:07:26.360 --> 00:07:32.720
So I got to meet all these founders and then I went to business school while I was doing that as well.
00:07:32.720 --> 00:07:39.000
So I of course kind of got that itch from all these other people talking about what they do and just throwing out ideas and things like that.
00:07:39.319 --> 00:07:44.120
So I definitely had some knowledge about what it might look like.
00:07:44.279 --> 00:07:46.279
I knew how to put together a business plan.
00:07:47.079 --> 00:07:51.519
The old saying of like, it's going to be so much harder than you think it is, I said in my head.
00:07:51.519 --> 00:07:55.000
I was like, no, I know how hard it's going to because everybody's told me already.
00:07:55.240 --> 00:07:57.110
So I'm like, thought I was prepared.
00:07:57.750 --> 00:07:58.149
Total.
00:07:58.470 --> 00:07:59.269
A total lie.
00:07:59.269 --> 00:08:00.149
Totally not true.
00:08:00.149 --> 00:08:01.949
Way, way harder than I thought it was going to be.
00:08:01.949 --> 00:08:02.230
Still.
00:08:03.110 --> 00:08:10.149
So anybody that tells you that it's going to be harder than you think it is, it's like, still going to be harder than you think you're preparing yourself for.
00:08:12.069 --> 00:08:15.269
But, you know, so I think with all of that, I was really prepared.
00:08:15.269 --> 00:08:20.629
I, like, had an idea of like, how to raise some, like, money from friends and family.
00:08:21.029 --> 00:08:38.548
Had an idea of like, how to pull together a business plan relatively savvy in terms of like, getting incorporated and like, understanding, like, technical enough to like, know how to use Shopify and like, understand, like, okay, here's roughly how much I need to put into marketing and sales and, you know, so on and so forth.
00:08:38.548 --> 00:08:42.149
So I was actually felt like I was pretty prepared on that front.
00:08:42.230 --> 00:08:49.990
I think the thing that was hardest for me out of the gate to really like, have like come to fruition was how hard it is to like.
00:08:50.399 --> 00:08:53.679
I guess the best analogy I can come up with is get out of park.
00:08:53.679 --> 00:09:09.679
Like, when you're a new business and you have no customers, you have no reputation, you have nothing, thinking that somebody's just gonna come to your website and buy a pillow from you when they could be buying a pillow from Casper or Purple or these multimillion dollar corporations.
00:09:09.919 --> 00:09:13.600
You'd almost have to be crazy to be the first person to buy a pillow from Lagoon.
00:09:14.080 --> 00:09:19.600
And frankly, of course, I'm sure, like many stories you guys hear, the first people who buy pillows from you are your friends and family.
00:09:20.080 --> 00:09:23.179
So hopefully you just need to build up bit of that.
00:09:23.179 --> 00:09:27.340
And so really just like, it is like trying to move a boulder, right?
00:09:27.419 --> 00:09:27.899
Sorry.
00:09:28.220 --> 00:09:34.299
Not using too many analogies, but like, you gotta just like start to get a little bit of momentum somehow.
00:09:34.379 --> 00:09:43.980
So while things are still always hard today and like, you're constantly fighting to find product market fit and to, you know, make your customer acquisition costs work and all those things.
00:09:44.299 --> 00:09:49.259
At least you have a little bit of the boulder rolling that flywheel going now that.
00:09:49.259 --> 00:09:53.570
That does just feel like you're not in park, like, desperately trying to get out of it.
00:09:53.570 --> 00:09:54.009
Yeah.
00:09:54.009 --> 00:10:15.529
Well, I feel like that is really one of the unique challenges of starting and running a small business, because, you know, in a world where we have so many different options for every single product or service that we might want to purchase, it is hard to convince ourselves as consumers to try something that's kind of untested for sure.
00:10:15.769 --> 00:10:16.169
Right.
00:10:16.169 --> 00:10:33.320
So what we hear a lot from small businesses, and I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on, is they find success in, you know, basically creating a unique angle or unique story behind their product or service that sets them apart from the bigger corporations 100%.
00:10:33.320 --> 00:10:37.440
You know, I think, like, out of the gate, you're kind of, like, stuck with one or two things.
00:10:37.440 --> 00:10:44.039
Are you going to build your brand or your business on something that's completely new and interesting and unique?
00:10:44.039 --> 00:10:48.460
And, like, it's actually really hard to find something that hasn't been created yet.
00:10:48.620 --> 00:10:50.299
I spent, like, years thinking about it.
00:10:50.299 --> 00:10:51.419
I mean, most things exist.
00:10:51.419 --> 00:10:55.019
Even when you have, like, an original thought and you're like, that would be a really cool idea.
00:10:55.019 --> 00:11:07.220
If you Google it probably, like, it probably already exists, but, you know, so I thought our original idea was kind of our approach, you know, like, none of our pillows out of the gate were necessarily anything that didn't exist on the market.
00:11:07.220 --> 00:11:16.669
But our approach of matching people with the pillow that's going to be right for them and making sure that we had a lineup of pillows that was diverse enough to meet the people needs of all different types of sleepers.
00:11:16.669 --> 00:11:19.990
I thought that was going to be our unique thing.
00:11:20.149 --> 00:11:28.309
I will say, looking back on it, if I had to, like, give any advice to a founder, I like having your approach be your differentiator isn't what I would recommend.
00:11:28.309 --> 00:11:30.710
Like, like, have your product be your differentiator.
00:11:30.710 --> 00:11:32.470
Or to your point, like, have.
00:11:32.549 --> 00:11:35.710
Have the brand have the story be the differentiator as well, too.
00:11:35.710 --> 00:11:37.710
And I think that's kind of what we found over time.
00:11:37.710 --> 00:11:38.509
Like when.
00:11:38.509 --> 00:11:42.120
When I was trying to find my footing with Lagoon, it was like, okay, you're right.
00:11:42.120 --> 00:11:43.200
Everybody needs a pillow.
00:11:43.200 --> 00:11:45.240
So, like, let's go try to talk to everybody.
00:11:45.240 --> 00:11:53.320
So I was talking to mommy bloggers, home interior designers, you know, all these different Personas to see who would.
00:11:53.559 --> 00:11:55.480
Who our message would resonate best with.
00:11:55.960 --> 00:11:58.759
And at the end of the day, it was like, okay, Ryan, come back to what?
00:11:58.759 --> 00:12:02.200
You know, like, I'm a lifelong endurance athlete.
00:12:02.360 --> 00:12:04.759
I'm somebody who worked at NBC Sports for 10 years.
00:12:05.080 --> 00:12:07.159
It's athletes that I understand the best.
00:12:07.159 --> 00:12:12.700
It's probably also, Ryan, the reason why he started a pillow company is because as an athlete, you actually really care about your sleep.
00:12:13.009 --> 00:12:17.090
So that was kind of like my boneheaded moment where we're like, yeah, Ryan, this is like hitting you on the head.
00:12:17.090 --> 00:12:18.690
This should be obvious to you.
00:12:19.409 --> 00:12:25.970
But it wasn't until we had actually a friend of mine, his now wife is an Olympian, an olympic runner.
00:12:25.970 --> 00:12:27.049
Cory McGee's her name.
00:12:27.049 --> 00:12:35.370
And she just, like, you know, as a friend, threw up a post for us on Instagram, and like, a handful of people actually put orders in.
00:12:35.370 --> 00:12:37.490
I was like, okay, there's something here.
00:12:38.850 --> 00:12:41.809
And so I was like, well, let's just start talking to runners.
00:12:41.809 --> 00:12:42.570
I know runners.
00:12:42.570 --> 00:12:43.129
I'm a runner.
00:12:43.129 --> 00:12:44.129
I understand runners.
00:12:44.409 --> 00:12:51.450
Let's start to build the business around this idea of improving, optimizing your sleep so that you can improve your daily performance.
00:12:52.889 --> 00:13:09.850
And I would say that just as much, if not more of Lagoon success has been centered around the idea of having an identity about what we are as a business and who we speak to, as opposed to our product or our approach being any more differentiated.
00:13:10.549 --> 00:13:19.350
Well, you know, that is, I think, the shortcut to building up a rapport or a reputation in your community.
00:13:19.509 --> 00:13:19.909
Right.
00:13:20.149 --> 00:13:27.590
So an easy answer to that question of, well, why should I go to Lagoon versus Casper is, well, Lagoon.
00:13:27.830 --> 00:13:31.389
I mean, the person who started this business is like me, right?
00:13:31.389 --> 00:13:36.950
You can see yourself not just in the product, but actually in, like, who is representing that product.
00:13:37.539 --> 00:13:38.500
That's really powerful.
00:13:38.659 --> 00:13:44.179
And that is going to make me a lot more likely to choose that if I identify with your story 100%.
00:13:44.179 --> 00:13:51.899
And, you know, I think it just goes to show the importance that in most cases, like founders, you're gonna.
00:13:51.899 --> 00:13:54.740
You're gonna have to get comfortable putting yourself out there.
00:13:54.820 --> 00:14:03.929
And I wouldn't say that was something that I thought of coming out of the gate or something that I was really prepared for or necessarily wanted to either.
00:14:03.929 --> 00:14:10.970
I have always kind of led by example and maybe led a little bit more quietly.
00:14:11.450 --> 00:14:20.809
But you do, like, you know, to get people to resonate with your brand, your business, your story, you've got to be out there in front telling it.
00:14:20.809 --> 00:14:22.250
And sometimes it's uncomfortable.
00:14:22.330 --> 00:14:31.929
And, I mean, if you guys go look at our Instagram Lagoon Sleep, you'll see Me just like making an idiot out of myself like a lot of times.
00:14:32.090 --> 00:14:39.070
And sometimes I'm not very comfortable doing it and sometimes it comes out poorly and sometimes we get like 300 views and you know, that's just the way it is.
00:14:39.070 --> 00:14:47.909
But you kind of have to keep trying because people are watching and people do want to see that behind the scenes story and people do want to know who they're buying from.
00:14:48.470 --> 00:14:50.269
So like, you really got to be comfortable with it.
00:14:50.269 --> 00:14:58.309
I mean, if you don't believe me, just look at how much like, success any of the, like, influencer.
00:14:59.029 --> 00:15:12.740
You know, I was just reading about Hailey Bieber today and how her like skincare brand is worth $250 million or whatever it is, and her customer acquisition cost is like $1 for every $9 she does in sales.
00:15:12.740 --> 00:15:15.940
And that's just because people watch her and listen to her.
00:15:15.940 --> 00:15:22.139
And so for you, as a founder of a business, like, yeah, I'm not Hailey Bieber and I'm okay with that.
00:15:22.700 --> 00:15:26.100
But you do have to try and get some of that arbitrage too.
00:15:26.100 --> 00:15:30.269
You have to try and get some eyeballs because otherwise you're paying for every eyeball you get.
00:15:30.269 --> 00:15:32.629
And then like, can get really expensive really quickly.
00:15:32.629 --> 00:15:33.909
Yeah, yeah.
00:15:33.909 --> 00:15:39.750
And I mean, like, I think that's something that a lot of people forget is just how many people there are on the planet.
00:15:39.909 --> 00:15:56.230
And so like, even if I say this in other conversations often, but there's like, if you can get even a half a percentage of the like, of the US's like, population, that's an enormous amount of people, you know.
00:15:56.230 --> 00:16:09.669
So like, if you are focusing on, you know, athletes who are thinking about their sleep and seeking a pillow, even though you've added all of these filters to that group of people, it's still big.
00:16:09.909 --> 00:16:10.309
Right?
00:16:10.309 --> 00:16:15.590
Which means that like, if you really lean into that, those people will find their way to you over time.
00:16:15.750 --> 00:16:17.990
And that can be really powerful.
00:16:18.070 --> 00:16:18.549
For sure.
00:16:18.549 --> 00:16:18.789
Yeah.
00:16:18.789 --> 00:16:22.129
I mean, we've tried to position Lagoon as like the pillow for runners.
00:16:22.129 --> 00:16:22.610
Yeah.
00:16:22.690 --> 00:16:24.450
And like you're like, that seems pretty specific.
00:16:24.450 --> 00:16:27.929
There's like 20 million runners in the U.S. you know.
00:16:27.929 --> 00:16:28.289
Yeah.
00:16:28.769 --> 00:16:34.409
I mean, if we're selling to half a percent of, you know, 20 million people, we're like, there's still plenty of room there.
00:16:34.409 --> 00:16:39.809
So I mean, the advice I got from an advisor to like niche down and like really mean it.
00:16:41.570 --> 00:16:42.529
Such great advice.
00:16:42.529 --> 00:16:43.450
Such great advice.
00:16:43.450 --> 00:16:47.610
I mean, because like, if you're not speaking to someone specifically, you're speaking to no one.
00:16:47.610 --> 00:16:49.360
I'm sure everybody's heard that.
00:16:49.360 --> 00:16:51.080
But it's so true.
00:16:52.279 --> 00:16:59.240
Like just because think of all the brands that are trying to speak to everyone like that's the Costcos or the targets of the world.
00:16:59.240 --> 00:17:03.000
Like those are the people that have hundreds of millions of dollars in marketing budgets.
00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:05.640
You don't want to, you don't want to play against them.
00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:07.519
Like you got, you've got to play your own game.
00:17:07.519 --> 00:17:08.440
You can't play theirs.
00:17:08.440 --> 00:17:08.720
You'll.
00:17:08.720 --> 00:17:10.279
You like, you will never beat them.
00:17:10.519 --> 00:17:17.689
They don't, they don't like even think or care about efficiency the way you have to when you only have like a couple thousand dollars in the bank.
00:17:17.847 --> 00:17:20.568
Like you've got to be niche down for sure.
00:17:20.887 --> 00:17:21.367
Yeah.
00:17:21.607 --> 00:17:26.887
So tell us about some of the ways that Lagoon Sleep is planning to expand beyond pillows.
00:17:27.209 --> 00:17:28.969
Yeah, great question.
00:17:28.969 --> 00:17:34.249
I mean because it's something I think about constantly, I like to think of sleep as our category.
00:17:34.249 --> 00:17:39.128
So I feel like we do have quite a lot of leeway.
00:17:39.209 --> 00:17:50.480
And just the way I talk about sleep I feel like does make it so that we can think about things that aren't just like, you know, just bet like betting as a category because that's not where I want to be.
00:17:51.279 --> 00:17:52.680
We've done a lot of experimenting.
00:17:52.680 --> 00:18:00.799
Probably the thing that we've done that's been the most out there has been our magnesium supplement which is called Night Bites.
00:18:01.839 --> 00:18:10.930
So it's actually a, it's, it has 200 milligrams of magnesium and 200 milligrams of L theanine which is just a, an amino acid that helps calm your mind as well too.
00:18:11.170 --> 00:18:12.289
All natural ingredients.
00:18:12.289 --> 00:18:21.769
But rather than doing just like a pill or a gummy, which I feel like everybody has done, I wanted to do chocolate bars because I have a sweet tooth and I just like need something sweet before bed.
00:18:21.769 --> 00:18:25.609
And every sleep professional will be like, don't eat sugar or chocolate, whatever before bed.
00:18:25.609 --> 00:18:29.130
So I was like, well could we potentially flip that on its head a little bit?
00:18:29.130 --> 00:18:34.930
So we made chocolate bars that are only 4 grams of sugar and we actually use carob rather than cacao.
00:18:34.930 --> 00:18:36.970
So it's completely caffeine free as well too.
00:18:36.970 --> 00:18:41.250
So it's actually like a little treat you can have before bed that's going to help you sleep, not the opposite.
00:18:41.890 --> 00:18:43.410
And no melatonin involved.
00:18:43.410 --> 00:18:49.170
So like nothing that's habit forming, nothing's gonna leave you habit feeling groggy in the morning.
00:18:50.369 --> 00:19:02.730
So that's been like an interesting experiment also from like the business perspective you look at that too compared to pillow where you're not going to come back and buy a pillow every month, but you could buy a supplement it every month too.
00:19:02.730 --> 00:19:05.450
So that was a little bit of the strategic thought behind that.
00:19:06.730 --> 00:19:10.490
You know, since we're all friends here and giving like the true behind the scenes of the business.
00:19:10.490 --> 00:19:21.369
Like the thing that's been hard about that while it's a unique differentiated product, which again I was like, I'm very in favor of, what's hard about it is cocoa prices are crazy right now.
00:19:21.529 --> 00:19:24.170
So we actually use cocoa butter and we use carob powder.
00:19:24.170 --> 00:19:25.650
So that's what makes it caffeine free.
00:19:25.650 --> 00:19:28.019
But cocoa butter is incredibly expensive right now.
00:19:28.019 --> 00:19:34.619
So I mean a bar costs like $2 a bar, but like our margins aren't, you know, aren't even that good on it right now.
00:19:34.619 --> 00:19:40.059
So for like an individual serving size, it's kind of like a tough value proposition for a consumer.
00:19:40.059 --> 00:19:47.059
Unless like somebody just has a lot of disposable income and they're looking to spend a lot on their sleep, which there are people out there that are doing that.
00:19:47.539 --> 00:19:49.059
But we're actually working right now.
00:19:49.140 --> 00:19:54.779
We work with a local chocolatier here in Minnetonka, actually Groveland Community Confections.
00:19:54.779 --> 00:19:59.420
Brian, the owner over there, he's been awesome to work with, so they're making it for us.
00:19:59.420 --> 00:20:07.539
But he actually, we just worked on six different samples of a powder which would take the cocoa butter out of the mix too, so it would be a lot more affordable.
00:20:08.420 --> 00:20:14.700
So the past four or five nights have actually been shaking up our little concoction, trying out our different samples.
00:20:14.700 --> 00:20:18.579
So maybe we'll be rolling something on that front out pretty soon.
00:20:18.579 --> 00:20:20.019
But some of the other things we've been doing.
00:20:20.569 --> 00:20:28.250
Travel has been like a huge extension for us just because like you can't bring your mattress with you can't bring like a lot of your sleep stuff with you.
00:20:28.250 --> 00:20:31.769
But like a lot of people actually really travel with their pillow.
00:20:32.089 --> 00:20:41.930
And the funny thing we're finding out is once somebody switches to lagoon pillow and they like create such great affinity with their pillow, they get really upset when they travel somewhere and they don't travel with it.
00:20:42.089 --> 00:20:51.299
So we just like launched a new travel bag that's like really easy way to just throw it on top of your carry on suitcase, something like that.
00:20:51.619 --> 00:20:59.619
But then, you know, part of the thing too is there are certain things where I'm like, I maybe get a little bit too ambitious about wanting to turn the world on its head.
00:20:59.619 --> 00:21:10.019
Like another example of this is Like I never wanted to run Memorial Day or Labor Day sales because that just felt like something all the like stodgy old betting companies did.
00:21:10.500 --> 00:21:14.339
But everybody likes buying betting products on Labor Day and Memorial Day.
00:21:14.420 --> 00:21:21.279
So like Ryan, if you don't want to do it, then you're just not going to have people buy your products during the periods of time where they're primed to buy it.
00:21:21.519 --> 00:21:25.680
So the only reason I give that as background is like, same thing goes with pillowcases.
00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:27.839
It's kind of the obvious answer.
00:21:28.079 --> 00:21:33.599
So while we may want to do pillows, when people are thinking about buying pillows, they're also thinking about buying pillowcases.
00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:39.759
So I would say other than pillows, pillowcases has been the thing that's been just the most natural extension.
00:21:39.920 --> 00:21:47.150
We were doing a really good high quality silk pillowcase was only product were offering as an add on for the longest period of time.
00:21:47.150 --> 00:21:49.950
But we actually just added a new nylon.
00:21:49.950 --> 00:21:52.829
We're calling it the Cooling Flex pillowcase.
00:21:52.829 --> 00:21:55.390
Which is like my idea there is.
00:21:55.390 --> 00:21:58.710
We can actually start rolling out a few different pillowcases too.
00:21:58.710 --> 00:22:05.190
So in addition to matching people with the right type of pillow for them, we could also match them with a pillow case that meets their needs too.
00:22:05.190 --> 00:22:12.009
So make it like something that again fits with Lagoon's personality of being personalized to each individual sleeper.
00:22:12.730 --> 00:22:18.730
So when you're doing testing on something like that, are you also then the tester for those different pillowcases?
00:22:18.890 --> 00:22:20.890
Yeah, like the primary tester.
00:22:20.890 --> 00:22:21.690
You're the one.
00:22:21.690 --> 00:22:22.049
It's.
00:22:22.049 --> 00:22:30.089
It's funny you ask that because yeah, like going back in time, my process for coming up with our original line was my wife and I test.
00:22:30.089 --> 00:22:36.650
We tested like 50, 60 different pillows to come up with our lineup of at the time we started with launched with eight pillows.
00:22:36.650 --> 00:22:37.250
That was too many.
00:22:37.890 --> 00:22:40.849
We're down, we're down to five now and really happy with the lineup.
00:22:40.849 --> 00:22:44.609
But, but that was how I tested just my wife and I and like getting her feedback.
00:22:44.930 --> 00:22:48.490
She like some nights was excited about doing other night.
00:22:48.490 --> 00:22:49.809
She's like, okay, this is too much.
00:22:50.690 --> 00:22:51.568
And I don't blame her.
00:22:51.568 --> 00:22:52.690
She was such a good sport.
00:22:52.769 --> 00:22:59.490
But I think that the thing that I realized too is I sleep on my back, which is actually I'm in the minority.
00:22:59.569 --> 00:23:01.559
60% of people sleep on their side.
00:23:02.029 --> 00:23:15.150
So now that we actually have enough people in our community, whenever we're rolling out samples or trying something new, I actually do try and get some samples out to a few different people in the network to get some more diverse feedback because yeah.
00:23:15.470 --> 00:23:23.230
Just having like a sample size of 2 usually isn't enough, but you'd be surprised.
00:23:23.309 --> 00:23:27.230
I do now know enough about the different types of sleepers out there and what people do.
00:23:27.230 --> 00:23:28.839
And you don't like that.
00:23:28.839 --> 00:23:32.960
I am able to shortcut stuff a little bit better than I was a couple years ago.
00:23:33.119 --> 00:23:33.519
Sure.
00:23:33.680 --> 00:23:34.400
That's nice.
00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:34.880
I mean.
00:23:35.440 --> 00:23:35.759
Yeah.
00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:38.079
When I think about, I don't know, there's.
00:23:38.079 --> 00:23:42.039
There is so much that you notice about things.
00:23:42.039 --> 00:23:49.279
Like if you were like travel and then you're staying with a friend and then they give you whatever pillow they've got on whatever sheets they've got.
00:23:49.599 --> 00:23:53.069
Some people have like wool sheets and you're like, oh my gosh, I'm sorry.
00:23:53.299 --> 00:23:54.059
Warm right now.
00:23:54.059 --> 00:23:58.220
Even though I know wool fans are like, no, wool is the best fabric ever.
00:23:58.220 --> 00:23:59.660
So they say, yeah, right.
00:23:59.660 --> 00:24:00.099
Yeah.
00:24:00.339 --> 00:24:01.259
But, you know, I.
00:24:01.259 --> 00:24:10.500
So I could see how even if it's not necessarily your, you know, even when you're testing and obviously you have a network of people that you can share these products with to test as well.
00:24:10.500 --> 00:24:14.900
But even if it's just when it was just you and your wife, you put your head on it.
00:24:14.900 --> 00:24:17.140
You're like, yeah, this is firm.
00:24:17.220 --> 00:24:18.500
Or than the other one.
00:24:18.500 --> 00:24:22.460
And that might not be my favorite, but it probably is somebody's favorite.
00:24:22.700 --> 00:24:26.339
And is it some, you know, so just sort of trying to cover that spread.
00:24:26.339 --> 00:24:26.740
That's.
00:24:26.740 --> 00:24:28.220
It's an interesting place to start.
00:24:28.460 --> 00:24:29.180
I mean, what's.
00:24:29.180 --> 00:24:33.420
What's so funny is like, so our most popular pillow is the otter pillow.
00:24:33.500 --> 00:24:36.460
It's like, I say it's like a 6 out of 10 on the soft firm scale.
00:24:36.460 --> 00:24:37.660
This is my own made up scale.
00:24:38.940 --> 00:24:46.650
But, you know, we'll get customer feedback from somebody, you know, one day saying, the otter pillow is just way too firm for me.
00:24:46.650 --> 00:24:49.730
I need to return this two days later, Three days later.
00:24:50.130 --> 00:24:50.769
I need to.
00:24:50.769 --> 00:24:53.250
The otter pillow is so way too soft for me.
00:24:54.450 --> 00:24:55.569
Same exact pillow.
00:24:55.730 --> 00:24:58.049
So, yeah, I mean, we do have a really good.
00:24:58.130 --> 00:25:00.650
I should say we have a very low return rate.
00:25:00.650 --> 00:25:04.769
We do a really nice job of matching people with the right pillow.
00:25:04.769 --> 00:25:07.170
But I have learned you can't, you cannot.
00:25:07.170 --> 00:25:07.970
It's impossible.
00:25:08.130 --> 00:25:13.170
Everybody or even predict for them until they get to put their head on it.
00:25:13.170 --> 00:25:13.490
Right.
00:25:13.769 --> 00:25:14.170
For sure.
00:25:14.170 --> 00:25:19.410
The best also is that some people are just very like bullheaded.
00:25:19.410 --> 00:25:20.890
And I'm a very bullheaded person.
00:25:20.890 --> 00:25:28.769
So I say that walking that carefully in terms of like, no, I know I'm a side sleeper, but I swear I like a really soft pillow.
00:25:28.769 --> 00:25:34.730
Like, it just what works for me, it's like, well, you maybe like do want a little bit more support to help fill the gap.
00:25:34.730 --> 00:25:37.250
Like, would you just like try this one?
00:25:37.250 --> 00:25:39.700
And they're like, okay, like, how weird.
00:25:39.700 --> 00:25:41.059
Like, that actually does give me support.
00:25:42.339 --> 00:25:43.140
That was better.
00:25:43.299 --> 00:25:44.579
That actually does work better.
00:25:44.819 --> 00:25:48.900
So I mean, people do just have preconceived notions from the way they've always slept.
00:25:49.140 --> 00:25:55.140
I mean, my example was for whatever reason, I mean, I guess it was because my parents always had two pillows on my bed.
00:25:55.380 --> 00:26:04.819
I was always a back sleeper, but I would always have my two pillows kind of like up against the headboard and I would basically like sleep just on the, like the corner of the pillow.
00:26:05.059 --> 00:26:07.519
Completely the wrong way to be using a pillow.
00:26:08.000 --> 00:26:09.279
But, but I don't know.
00:26:09.279 --> 00:26:11.799
So I guess education is like a really big piece.
00:26:11.799 --> 00:26:16.880
We do put a lot of content out there that just helps people think about how they should be using it.
00:26:17.599 --> 00:26:28.359
That probably is one of the hardest parts about being a direct to consumer, like online business is even if you do a great job of matching people, even if you tell the story like some people do, just like feeling the pillows.
00:26:28.359 --> 00:26:34.759
That's why we do offer the 100 night free trial to like try and encourage people to take it home with them and make it as easy for them to trial at home.
00:26:34.759 --> 00:26:36.559
But you know, we do stuff in the community.
00:26:36.880 --> 00:26:38.799
We're always at the Twin Cities marathon.
00:26:38.799 --> 00:26:43.359
So like being at an expo is like a great opportunity to have people lie in our little bed and like try to.
00:26:44.319 --> 00:26:46.079
We'll, we'll run into people.
00:26:46.079 --> 00:26:47.279
I heard about you on a podcast.
00:26:47.279 --> 00:26:54.000
I see your ads and I'm like so excited to just finally try the pillow out before I like make the, make the purchase.
00:26:54.000 --> 00:26:57.420
So that's one of the challenges, you know, continually trying to.
00:26:57.569 --> 00:26:57.769
Yeah.
00:26:57.769 --> 00:26:58.369
To figure out.
00:26:58.369 --> 00:27:05.089
Well, I gotta say you're a good advocate for it because on the way here I was like, this seems cool, but like, I don't know, it's a pillow.
00:27:05.170 --> 00:27:06.450
I don't need to spend more money.
00:27:06.609 --> 00:27:08.849
Now I'm like, oh, maybe I need a new pillow.
00:27:10.369 --> 00:27:19.009
You know, it is, it's funny, I don't, I didn't realize how much of an uphill battle it would because I know pillows and unsexy products.
00:27:20.210 --> 00:27:24.819
But the example I always like to go back to is I listen to probably on how I built this or something.
00:27:24.819 --> 00:27:26.259
Listen to the method.
00:27:26.259 --> 00:27:34.859
So creator talk about how the soap bottle, like he loves going to the Aisles of Target and looking the product that's unsexy and figure out a way to make it sexy.
00:27:34.859 --> 00:27:35.579
I was like, that's.
00:27:35.579 --> 00:27:37.700
That's a great perspective.
00:27:37.700 --> 00:27:39.140
Let's do that with pillows.
00:27:39.539 --> 00:27:42.099
But there are still a lot of people that just think of pillows as.
00:27:42.099 --> 00:27:43.059
As unsexy.
00:27:43.940 --> 00:27:46.180
And, you know, I think one of the best ways to combat that.
00:27:46.180 --> 00:27:48.059
Yeah, I can talk about it, but.
00:27:48.059 --> 00:27:52.839
But finding partnership who just, like, have a way about making things cool sometimes, too.
00:27:52.839 --> 00:27:55.960
Like, one of the podcasts we work with is called Believe in the Run.
00:27:55.960 --> 00:27:57.359
And these guys are just like three.
00:27:58.079 --> 00:27:59.119
Two guys, one woman.
00:27:59.119 --> 00:28:00.039
They're just like, cool.
00:28:00.039 --> 00:28:00.440
They're all.
00:28:00.440 --> 00:28:02.759
They're all like, cool, and they can make anything sound cool.
00:28:02.759 --> 00:28:04.119
I was like, okay, help.
00:28:04.119 --> 00:28:04.480
Because.
00:28:04.559 --> 00:28:06.319
Because I sometimes have a hard time.
00:28:06.319 --> 00:28:09.599
You need a Hailey Bieber to pitch it for you.
00:28:10.319 --> 00:28:11.920
But that's funny too, right?
00:28:11.920 --> 00:28:14.000
Because, you know, nobody.
00:28:14.880 --> 00:28:18.400
There isn't anybody that does, you know, pillows for a living.
00:28:18.480 --> 00:28:27.759
So, you know, like, while Hexclad has a Gordon Ramsay be the spokesperson for their pots and pans, it's such a natural fit.
00:28:27.759 --> 00:28:28.559
Who is the.
00:28:28.799 --> 00:28:30.400
Who's the professional sleeper?
00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:31.119
Right?
00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:31.880
Yeah.
00:28:31.880 --> 00:28:32.359
I don't know.
00:28:32.359 --> 00:28:33.279
You guys have any idea?
00:28:33.279 --> 00:28:33.680
Yeah.
00:28:34.400 --> 00:28:38.960
The Olympian that it sounds like helped kick things off is, like, a good example, though, of, like, the.
00:28:38.960 --> 00:28:40.720
Probably the best that you can really do.
00:28:40.720 --> 00:28:41.359
For sure.
00:28:41.440 --> 00:28:45.299
Here's an athlete at the top of their game saying, my sleep matters.
00:28:45.299 --> 00:28:47.500
And this is the thing that I like to use to sleep.
00:28:47.579 --> 00:28:49.339
Maybe it would be just like a new category.
00:28:49.420 --> 00:28:50.460
We should just like, start.
00:28:50.940 --> 00:28:51.819
Oh, my gosh.
00:28:51.819 --> 00:28:52.819
Who's the best sleep?
00:28:52.819 --> 00:28:55.180
Like, like, who's got the best make.
00:28:55.180 --> 00:28:58.500
Like a sort of a silly annual event that you host.
00:28:58.500 --> 00:29:01.019
That's just like, who can be the best sleeping company?
00:29:01.099 --> 00:29:02.859
Some sort of sleeping competition.
00:29:02.859 --> 00:29:03.700
Yeah, I think.
00:29:03.700 --> 00:29:04.460
I think it would work.
00:29:04.460 --> 00:29:06.779
You know, use whatever tracking device you have.
00:29:06.779 --> 00:29:11.079
Whoever's getting 99 could get a sponsorship deal from Lagoon.
00:29:11.160 --> 00:29:11.480
Yeah.
00:29:11.480 --> 00:29:12.039
Oh, my God.
00:29:12.039 --> 00:29:12.920
That's pretty fun.
00:29:13.160 --> 00:29:14.200
That's a fun idea.
00:29:15.720 --> 00:29:23.720
So other than starting this business, which obviously is its own risk, what is one risk that you've taken since Lagoon started?
00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:27.319
Yeah, I think one of the things that.
00:29:27.640 --> 00:29:41.089
One, again, same advisor I was talking about earlier that he's really helped coach into my mind is taking, like, right sized, appropriate risks for how much, like, cash you have in the bank.
00:29:41.809 --> 00:29:51.769
We never had that perfect product market fit or that perfect channel where it's like, let's just go all in, caution to the wind, or.
00:29:51.769 --> 00:29:59.130
I've never felt so convinced about one individual that I'm like, I'll be willing to throw a hundred thousand dollars at this idea.
00:29:59.130 --> 00:30:01.289
And let's like, I'm that convinced it's gonna work.
00:30:01.680 --> 00:30:07.039
So it's always been kind of rising tides across all of our platforms.
00:30:07.839 --> 00:30:18.880
So early on it was to the point where if I was making a $3,000 bet, that was a big bet, and if it failed, I really felt it, but the business would survive.
00:30:19.599 --> 00:30:27.039
Now we're probably at the point where we can make 10 or $20,000 bets, and if it fails, the business is going to survive.
00:30:27.200 --> 00:30:31.079
But also now I've gotten smarter about what works and what doesn't work.
00:30:31.079 --> 00:30:35.440
So if I'm making a test 10 or $20,000 bet, I know the outcome's not.
00:30:35.440 --> 00:30:36.119
I won't make it.
00:30:36.119 --> 00:30:37.960
If the outcome could be zero, I would make it.
00:30:37.960 --> 00:30:42.119
If the outcome could potentially be just like, we maybe don't break even, but.
00:30:42.119 --> 00:30:45.240
But, you know, not going to completely empty out the bank.
00:30:45.240 --> 00:30:47.720
So I've had to be really careful in that sense.
00:30:48.359 --> 00:30:48.720
But.
00:30:48.720 --> 00:31:04.450
But the downside of that is that, you know, every time you test like a new vertical or like, you know, we've been looking at potentially crossfit athletes or potentially triathletes or potentially cyclists, then you're just going to be a little bit slower to grow in those industries.
00:31:04.529 --> 00:31:16.529
And that's kind of a downside that I guess I'm willing to take when the opposite would be just losing all our money and going out of business.
00:31:16.690 --> 00:31:18.930
It just is kind of a reality of where we are.
00:31:19.089 --> 00:31:27.259
I think our story would be different if we did raise $5 million from, you know, so and so venture company, and then we can just be super aggressive.
00:31:27.579 --> 00:31:30.019
But I'm pretty happy with the route we've.
00:31:30.019 --> 00:31:30.539
We've taken.
00:31:30.539 --> 00:31:33.900
And I like that methodical approach.
00:31:33.900 --> 00:31:36.619
It kind of more matches my personality, too.
00:31:36.700 --> 00:31:46.259
The only thing I really have to temper is those times where you have a little bit of the jealousy or the imposter syndrome or whatever it is.
00:31:46.259 --> 00:31:48.700
And you see those companies that they found their channel, they.
00:31:48.869 --> 00:31:55.910
They're on TikTok and just blowing up like crazy, and you're like, oh man, I wish I could have just hit $10 million in our first year as well too.
00:31:56.549 --> 00:31:59.349
And yeah, you just got to pull yourself back from that ledge.
00:31:59.349 --> 00:32:01.029
Everybody's running their own race.
00:32:01.910 --> 00:32:04.430
So a little bit of a different question then.
00:32:04.430 --> 00:32:11.269
You know, what is one of the hardest moments that you've experienced, even if it didn't amount to a big risk for the business?
00:32:11.990 --> 00:32:22.390
Yeah, I would say the Hardest thing that has been the uncertainty for sure and the uncertainty over a long period of time.
00:32:23.190 --> 00:32:24.549
Like, am I doing the right thing?
00:32:24.869 --> 00:32:30.869
One of the comparisons I like to make as an endurance athlete myself was I did like a LinkedIn post on it.
00:32:30.949 --> 00:32:33.269
What's harder starting a business or running an ironman?
00:32:33.509 --> 00:32:34.829
And it's like not even close.
00:32:34.829 --> 00:32:36.470
Starting a business is so much harder.
00:32:36.549 --> 00:32:41.359
Even most recently I just ran out, did my first 100 mile ultra run and yeah, that was really hard.
00:32:41.359 --> 00:32:43.759
But I was done in 20, like I was done in 28 hours.
00:32:43.920 --> 00:32:46.200
And life goes on this journey.
00:32:46.200 --> 00:32:49.079
There is no finish line, you know, there is no finish line.
00:32:49.079 --> 00:32:51.359
There is nothing predictable about it.
00:32:51.599 --> 00:32:54.440
You don't even know if you like should be running the race or not.
00:32:54.440 --> 00:33:01.440
There's, there's like a very good case that could be made like you should have packed up and like gone and done something else a year ago.
00:33:01.519 --> 00:33:10.319
So I mean you almost have to just have, I wouldn't say blind conviction, but you have to have personal conviction that what you're doing is the right thing.
00:33:11.119 --> 00:33:14.640
And it's really hard when you're not paying yourself.
00:33:15.119 --> 00:33:17.119
When you're not paying yourself for a period of time.
00:33:17.680 --> 00:33:20.000
I almost default.
00:33:20.240 --> 00:33:20.960
I'm pretty.
00:33:21.680 --> 00:33:28.720
Like I'm okay with risk, so I was okay not paying myself for 18 to 12 to 18 months, however long it was.
00:33:29.039 --> 00:33:34.710
But my wife is much more risk averse than I am and as a good husband I have to be considerate of that.
00:33:34.710 --> 00:33:36.210
So too, like it's not just about me.
00:33:36.210 --> 00:33:39.650
And there is a lot of selfishness to being a founder.
00:33:39.650 --> 00:33:41.410
Like you need a supportive network too.
00:33:41.809 --> 00:33:45.690
Like, you know, she loves her job in general, but she's on a great career path too.
00:33:45.690 --> 00:33:51.048
But she brings so much stability to our relationship while I'm out trying to make this thing work.
00:33:51.048 --> 00:33:52.849
So I try not to take that for granted.
00:33:53.329 --> 00:33:57.730
But the, like the things where you, where I really feel it and really realize it.
00:33:57.890 --> 00:34:01.799
There's been a few times and actually just have one in September, August and September.
00:34:01.799 --> 00:34:06.440
We're just like a lot of things in a row aren't going as well as you want them to.
00:34:06.839 --> 00:34:18.280
And of course it's easy like it's easy to just like take one setback and like if you like quit after one setback, you probably weren't meant to be like a founder or an entrepreneur.
00:34:18.440 --> 00:34:28.019
But it does get really hard when you get like bad news after bad news or have bad sales day after bad sales day like consecutively for Like a week or like a month or like two months.
00:34:28.019 --> 00:34:29.019
You're like, oh, man.
00:34:29.099 --> 00:34:31.179
Like, are we still doing the right thing here?
00:34:31.579 --> 00:34:35.340
Those are the times where it tests your attest, your might.
00:34:37.099 --> 00:34:39.019
What keeps you going during those times.
00:34:39.739 --> 00:34:40.579
Honestly, it's a.
00:34:40.579 --> 00:34:44.619
It's a really fine line between perseverance and stupidity.
00:34:45.099 --> 00:34:47.059
And I say that somewhat in jest, but.
00:34:47.059 --> 00:34:49.340
But, like, I honestly don't even know if it's the.
00:34:49.340 --> 00:34:50.900
Like, if it's the right answer sometimes.
00:34:50.900 --> 00:34:52.139
Like, I. I do pride my.
00:34:52.289 --> 00:34:53.250
Myself and my perseverance.
00:34:53.250 --> 00:34:55.090
I think it's probably one of my strongest qualities.
00:34:55.250 --> 00:34:57.730
But I could just being stupid too, right?
00:34:57.809 --> 00:35:01.530
Like, I mean, because if you look at it as a founder, you know, what.
00:35:01.530 --> 00:35:03.170
What's your best alternative?
00:35:03.409 --> 00:35:09.530
You know, it's probably going back and doing a corporate job where I would be making more money than I'm making right now.
00:35:09.530 --> 00:35:12.130
But, you know, then you have to weigh that against.
00:35:12.130 --> 00:35:13.409
Do you love the life you're building?
00:35:13.409 --> 00:35:14.409
Do you love the flexibility?
00:35:14.409 --> 00:35:14.889
Do you have.
00:35:14.889 --> 00:35:15.369
Do you have.
00:35:15.369 --> 00:35:17.670
Do you love the fact that I can go pick my son up for.
00:35:17.820 --> 00:35:25.099
From daycare whenever I want to, and I can walk him in the mornings, and I can build the brand the way I want to be building it?
00:35:25.179 --> 00:35:27.019
I can be, like, doing.
00:35:27.340 --> 00:35:32.619
Having business conversations, the types of conversations I want to be having, not that somebody else is kind of dictating to me.
00:35:32.619 --> 00:35:37.820
So there's like, a lot of pros, and you just kind of have to weigh it with, like, some of the cons, too.
00:35:38.460 --> 00:35:39.099
Excuse me.
00:35:39.179 --> 00:35:42.059
Well, I think that's such a familiar story for business owners.
00:35:42.059 --> 00:35:50.630
You know, like, there's this idea that you have a message or a purpose that you want to bring to your customers.
00:35:51.110 --> 00:35:55.349
And then personally, there's also a lot of benefits to running your own business.
00:35:55.429 --> 00:35:59.190
I mean, it's really empowering to get to be the one making those decisions.
00:35:59.190 --> 00:36:00.070
It's exciting.
00:36:00.710 --> 00:36:03.989
And some of that up and down is what brings the excitement.
00:36:03.989 --> 00:36:12.510
You know, like, after a week of bad days, you have a good day and you're like, this is even better than, you know, my best day at my corporate job.
00:36:12.510 --> 00:36:13.789
Yeah, that's so true.
00:36:13.789 --> 00:36:15.949
And I'm such a glutton for that as well, too.
00:36:15.949 --> 00:36:16.269
Right?
00:36:16.269 --> 00:36:16.469
Like.
00:36:16.469 --> 00:36:19.710
Like, I mean, the best things in life are the things that you have to work hard for.
00:36:19.789 --> 00:36:20.190
Right.
00:36:20.190 --> 00:36:23.630
Anybody that's run a race or accomplished anything, you know, you.
00:36:23.630 --> 00:36:26.590
You know that it feels so much better when you've really had to work hard for it.
00:36:26.590 --> 00:36:28.230
So, yeah, it's.
00:36:28.230 --> 00:36:28.949
It's so True.
00:36:28.949 --> 00:36:36.250
Anybody that like, I couldn't encourage more anybody that's considering entrepreneur to go after it and chase it.
00:36:36.250 --> 00:36:40.329
But like, know that you do have to have a thick stomach for it too.
00:36:40.730 --> 00:36:48.570
and you do have to like do your own internal calculus and be super honest with yourself about whether you're being smart.
00:36:48.730 --> 00:36:54.530
and whether there is like an end in sight or whether you know it's just not the right thing.
00:36:54.530 --> 00:36:59.849
You, like, you can always try, try again too, but you don't want to quit too early either.
00:36:59.849 --> 00:37:01.719
And that's where it gets really complicated.
00:37:01.880 --> 00:37:12.440
I think one of the things that one of my favorite sayings or facts is that the number one determining factor on why a business doesn't succeed is the founder's willingness to make it succeed.
00:37:13.320 --> 00:37:22.679
And as somebody who prides himself and just really willing to work hard for the thing, I was like, man, I can't let me be the reason the business fails.
00:37:23.800 --> 00:37:30.010
But at the same time, if there are just so many signs that the business just isn't working, like, you gotta be super honest with yourself.
00:37:30.730 --> 00:37:36.130
Another founder who I regularly talk to, he put it in pretty simple terms for me.
00:37:36.130 --> 00:37:37.530
He's like, is the business still growing?
00:37:38.650 --> 00:37:39.889
Are you still enjoying doing it?
00:37:39.889 --> 00:37:41.969
And is there a path here?
00:37:41.969 --> 00:37:44.130
And if the answer is yeah, then keep going.
00:37:44.130 --> 00:37:53.059
But if you have just bad day after bad day and you just feel like you've turned over every single stone, then maybe it's time.
00:37:53.059 --> 00:38:00.260
But, but like, but it's kind of crazy as long as you stay in the game too, like you'll have a good idea or like opportunities will come to you.
00:38:00.420 --> 00:38:09.460
Like just the mere fact of staying in the game really does like just living, living another day can mean, can mean a lot.
00:38:09.699 --> 00:38:25.519
I can't remember who came up with this concept, but it's this idea of the infinite game, which is like what you were talking about earlier, where in business it's not like a marathon or an ultra run where you have a starting point and a finish point and you just get there and then it's over.
00:38:25.920 --> 00:38:33.599
It goes on sort of indefinitely until you decide to stop or until you retire or die or whatever.
00:38:34.800 --> 00:38:43.360
And that really changes the mindset, I think, of a business owner as far as where are you taking risks and how are you taking risks.
00:38:43.360 --> 00:38:51.130
You might take a risk in a bigger way during a hundred mile run because you know if you push it a little too hard, like you'll still get there eventually.
00:38:51.530 --> 00:38:54.090
But with a business, it doesn't always work that way.
00:38:54.250 --> 00:38:54.969
Yeah, I love that.
00:38:54.969 --> 00:39:09.849
I mean, I think it's so appropriate and I think probably like the only way we as humans that need like some of those, you know, goals and intermediate satisfaction is like setting those intermediate goals along the way to like, can I get to.
00:39:10.010 --> 00:39:18.829
I won't say the number, but like my wife and I talked about a number that I need to hit to be able to take home to, you know, just to not be a deadbeat husband.
00:39:19.869 --> 00:39:22.070
And, and you know, I didn't quite hit it.
00:39:22.070 --> 00:39:27.590
But, but like we figure, you know, like when you figure out a way to like be like, okay, but can we fill our bucket this way?
00:39:27.590 --> 00:39:28.510
Are we okay with that?
00:39:28.510 --> 00:39:30.510
And, and you kind of have to do that too.
00:39:30.510 --> 00:39:34.909
But, but like, there's got to be something along the way that you hold yourself accountable to.
00:39:34.909 --> 00:39:35.469
Otherwise.
00:39:35.469 --> 00:39:37.869
Yeah, I mean, it can get messy.
00:39:38.440 --> 00:39:38.760
Yeah.
00:39:39.000 --> 00:39:46.519
So I was wondering, you've mentioned the idea that like, it's like a run that you don't even know that you should be running.
00:39:47.000 --> 00:39:49.960
And so yet you decided to start this run.
00:39:50.440 --> 00:39:57.159
We haven't heard yet, I guess where that started for you, like, because it sounds like you worked for NBC Sports.
00:39:57.159 --> 00:39:57.639
Yep.
00:39:57.639 --> 00:40:03.639
And was it right out of there that this came or what was like sort of the in between of those two timeline points?
00:40:03.920 --> 00:40:09.519
It was and I'm comfortable talking about it since everybody at NBC kind of knows the story now.
00:40:09.519 --> 00:40:12.639
But I was doing the moonlighting thing for a little while.
00:40:12.639 --> 00:40:17.239
So I knew I wanted to start my own business for several years beforehand.
00:40:17.239 --> 00:40:20.400
I was kind of looking for an idea for a while.
00:40:20.639 --> 00:40:30.880
I actually did want to create a non alcoholic brewery even before Lagoon, but that would have required like many millions of dollars in startup capital, which that was too hard for me.
00:40:32.090 --> 00:40:41.130
But I started the journey for Lagoon in like during co. During COVID At the very beginning of COVID was when were.
00:40:41.130 --> 00:40:49.289
I was thinking of the idea and like being home from work during COVID kind of provided the opportunity to buy 60 pillows and try them out with my wife.
00:40:50.090 --> 00:40:53.530
And, and you know, so I just started putting out feelers to friends and family.
00:40:53.610 --> 00:40:56.429
Hey, would you guys be interested in supporting me in this journey?
00:40:56.579 --> 00:40:56.980
Journey.
00:40:57.619 --> 00:41:08.500
So raised some friends and family money and then, you know, officially we incorporated in January of 2021 and launched the site of August of 2021.
00:41:10.340 --> 00:41:14.539
It was crickets at the launch and I really had to figure some stuff out.
00:41:14.539 --> 00:41:19.860
So it was like really slow going at the beginning, I left my job at NBC Sports in March of 2022.
00:41:21.460 --> 00:41:29.429
So, you know, I was trying to do the moonlighting thing, but I was like, I'm never gonna grow lagoon to what it needs to be by doing this part time.
00:41:29.429 --> 00:41:34.989
And if I don't go all in, I'll never forgive myself for that either.
00:41:35.869 --> 00:41:36.630
So I did it.
00:41:36.630 --> 00:41:42.070
And yeah, I waited till I got my last bonus, so I had a little bit of a cushion because we kind of needed it.
00:41:42.070 --> 00:41:45.630
And really I didn't pay myself at all for 18 months.
00:41:46.429 --> 00:41:50.710
And I've actually just so people understand how hard it is to.
00:41:51.349 --> 00:42:00.869
Didn't pay myself at all, started paying myself a little bit, but there was not a Runway for me to be making enough money for that to be viable.
00:42:01.670 --> 00:42:05.829
And then about 18 months in, I had the opportunity to pick up some consulting work.
00:42:05.989 --> 00:42:12.150
And it was going to be 15 hours a week, but it was going to be enough to kind of help bridge that gap and keep going.
00:42:12.309 --> 00:42:23.469
And so I'm super fortunate that local startup here brought me on in that capacity because that has then provided some consistency for me to keep pursuing my dream.
00:42:23.469 --> 00:42:30.710
So while I was like, okay, you know, I think my initial calculation was, yeah, I could go, we can go 12 or 18 months without me paying myself at all.
00:42:30.710 --> 00:42:32.070
But it took longer than that.
00:42:32.070 --> 00:42:37.309
And if I didn't have that alternate plan out there, then I would have had to.
00:42:37.309 --> 00:42:38.389
Had to pack up shop.
00:42:38.389 --> 00:42:44.599
So that was just kind of one of the points along the way where there was that make or break moment that fortunately turned up.
00:42:45.320 --> 00:42:51.400
But yeah, so, you know, since August of 2021, super small the first year.
00:42:51.639 --> 00:42:54.400
The second year, we really kind of found out the athlete angle.
00:42:54.400 --> 00:42:55.559
So things started to click.
00:42:56.199 --> 00:42:58.920
I lost all my friends and family money in the first 12 months.
00:43:00.360 --> 00:43:11.380
Again, you know, as an MBA and like somebody that said he knew exactly what he was going to do, the only grace I'll provide myself is that I learned a lot with that money as well too.
00:43:11.460 --> 00:43:18.260
So while we blew it all and I knew I had to be profitable going forward, I learned the hard way and a lot of things too.
00:43:18.980 --> 00:43:25.500
So since 2022 then, you know, since that first 12, 18 months have had to be profitable or neutral.
00:43:25.500 --> 00:43:28.739
So the business since then, we haven't taken on any additional money.
00:43:30.260 --> 00:43:39.949
But now, you know, we just kind of passed a million dollars in revenue through over the, like, annual revenue this during some point this year.
00:43:39.949 --> 00:43:41.269
So that was like a huge milestone.
00:43:41.269 --> 00:43:42.190
Congratulations.
00:43:42.349 --> 00:43:42.829
Thank you.
00:43:42.829 --> 00:43:49.269
Yeah, I mean, like, you do have to stop every once in a while to pat yourself on the back, otherwise you know, you're gonna go crazy.
00:43:49.269 --> 00:43:52.269
So that was a really big milestone for us.
00:43:52.989 --> 00:43:55.750
And, and yeah, you know, I, I think we're finding a path.
00:43:55.750 --> 00:43:59.070
We need to find some new markets, we need to find some new, continue to add new products.
00:43:59.599 --> 00:44:02.960
But at least we've got that boulder moving a little bit now.
00:44:03.360 --> 00:44:08.119
Yeah, you've given us a lot of advice sprinkled throughout this conversation, which has been awesome.
00:44:08.119 --> 00:44:14.159
But what other advice do you have for either people thinking about starting a small business or people running a small business?
00:44:14.559 --> 00:44:20.920
Yeah, I would say my biggest advice is like you should do it.
00:44:20.920 --> 00:44:23.039
If you want to do it, you should do it.
00:44:23.599 --> 00:44:24.639
But do the work.
00:44:24.869 --> 00:44:25.829
Be, be prepared.
00:44:25.829 --> 00:44:27.190
Come up with a business plan.
00:44:27.190 --> 00:44:28.150
Challenge yourself.
00:44:28.469 --> 00:44:35.030
Like, even if you're not going to take on any even like friends and family money, like put the business plan together, see if it makes sense.
00:44:35.030 --> 00:44:35.829
Challenge yourself.
00:44:35.909 --> 00:44:38.150
I mean you have so many resources out there right now.
00:44:38.150 --> 00:44:52.550
Have a conversation with ChatGPT about whether or not your idea is viable and start to put a deck together just so you actually like make sure you really thought about it and, and like actually put in the work to say you would actually see it through.
00:44:52.550 --> 00:44:59.309
Cause I think the good and the bad is that it's easier now than ever to start a business that's a good thing and a bad thing.
00:44:59.309 --> 00:45:03.550
The good thing is that made it possible for me to live this journey that I'm on now too.
00:45:04.750 --> 00:45:06.750
But like I've looked at the numbers.
00:45:06.750 --> 00:45:15.469
Like we're in the, we're not a big business at all right now, but we are in the top like 5% of businesses on Shopify.
00:45:16.119 --> 00:45:23.559
So, so that you know, that just goes to show you that like there are a lot of people that are like, oh, I'll try it and like two weeks later you like find a new hobby too.
00:45:24.519 --> 00:45:33.400
Like if you really want to get the most out of the journey, like find something that you think even if it is, starts out as a side hobby and even if you need to like nurture it over a period of time.
00:45:33.480 --> 00:45:39.159
But if you want to make it into your full time thing, like actually figure out what that would take.
00:45:39.320 --> 00:45:41.480
And there's nothing wrong with having a side hobby too.
00:45:41.480 --> 00:45:45.170
I like actually think that's great if people just want to do that and something that they enjoy.
00:45:45.170 --> 00:45:49.809
Like entrepreneurship can be a hobby or just, you know, selling something on the side.
00:45:49.809 --> 00:45:50.769
Could be, could be great.
00:45:50.769 --> 00:45:51.010
Too.
00:45:51.010 --> 00:45:51.650
But I would say.
00:45:51.650 --> 00:45:52.250
I would say do.
00:45:52.250 --> 00:45:57.969
I'm such a proponent of it to the point where, like, I'm really looking forward to my son, who's only a year and a half.
00:45:57.969 --> 00:46:01.489
Like, I'm looking forward to instilling in him the idea of lemonade stand.
00:46:01.809 --> 00:46:02.289
Yeah, yeah.
00:46:02.289 --> 00:46:02.849
Like, we're gonna do.
00:46:02.849 --> 00:46:03.570
We're gonna do all.
00:46:03.730 --> 00:46:04.530
All the things.
00:46:04.769 --> 00:46:06.130
Big sales, whatever it is.
00:46:07.329 --> 00:46:07.889
It's just.
00:46:08.070 --> 00:46:09.550
It is just so rewarding.
00:46:09.550 --> 00:46:09.909
So that.
00:46:09.909 --> 00:46:11.349
That's my number one thing.
00:46:11.829 --> 00:46:15.429
And then, you know, along that line, too, I guess, like, it kind of goes hand in hand, but.
00:46:15.429 --> 00:46:18.469
But, like, along with doing the work, like, know your num.
00:46:18.469 --> 00:46:19.869
Know your numbers as well, too.
00:46:19.869 --> 00:46:25.030
It's super important to figure out if you can make things work financially, too.
00:46:25.510 --> 00:46:28.309
I made a lot of assumptions that were bad assumptions out of the gate.
00:46:28.309 --> 00:46:31.429
I thought we could acquire customers for a lot less than we actually could.
00:46:31.829 --> 00:46:34.710
I was like, oh, yeah, I know that's the norm, but we're going to better for.
00:46:34.710 --> 00:46:36.030
Just because I like, said so.
00:46:36.909 --> 00:46:46.429
Be super honest with yourself about whether you think something can work or not, because at the end of the day, the numbers will dictate whether or not something's going to be a success.
00:46:47.869 --> 00:46:48.389
What else?
00:46:48.389 --> 00:46:49.789
Do I have any other advice?
00:46:51.789 --> 00:46:53.949
Laughing I probably like giving advice too much.
00:46:55.070 --> 00:46:55.630
It's great.
00:46:55.630 --> 00:46:59.670
It's clear that you've thought a lot about what it means to be a business owner.
00:46:59.670 --> 00:46:59.969
So.
00:47:00.280 --> 00:47:00.599
Yeah.
00:47:04.519 --> 00:47:04.920
Yeah.
00:47:04.920 --> 00:47:07.079
And I think, you know, I think you said it as well, too.
00:47:07.159 --> 00:47:09.000
It's just like when.
00:47:09.000 --> 00:47:14.880
When you're thinking about what it means to be a business owner, like, think about the full package too.
00:47:14.880 --> 00:47:18.760
It, you know, it isn't just about income.
00:47:18.760 --> 00:47:19.159
If.
00:47:19.159 --> 00:47:24.760
If it was like, that would be, you know, that would be a harder comparison to make.
00:47:25.239 --> 00:47:27.199
I think there's a lot of ways to justify it.
00:47:27.199 --> 00:47:32.829
Like, Lagoon could get bought down the road, and that could be a great outcome.
00:47:32.989 --> 00:47:39.710
There could be a scenario where I'm actually able to pay myself a salary of double what I would make in the corporate world down there.
00:47:39.949 --> 00:47:41.389
That could be a great outcome.
00:47:41.789 --> 00:47:46.269
But, like, today, I'm making enough money where we're comfortable.
00:47:47.070 --> 00:47:51.670
But I look at my daily life, I look at, is my wife happy?
00:47:51.670 --> 00:47:52.309
Am I happy?
00:47:52.309 --> 00:47:53.230
Is our son happy?
00:47:53.230 --> 00:47:54.239
Do we like our daily routine?
00:47:54.389 --> 00:47:54.789
Routine?
00:47:55.269 --> 00:48:04.389
And is it better than, like, the work I know I would be doing or the meetings I know I would be going into and the stress about somebody else's problems that I know I would be dealing with?
00:48:04.869 --> 00:48:07.110
And I feel pretty confident in that.
00:48:07.110 --> 00:48:11.269
The only Thing I, like, would struggle with is the comparison game again.
00:48:12.550 --> 00:48:14.349
So, you know, that's real.
00:48:14.349 --> 00:48:20.869
And anybody that, like, is fearful of that or dealing with that, like, know that will be a part of your journey too.
00:48:20.869 --> 00:48:21.190
But.
00:48:21.360 --> 00:48:23.519
But, like, run your race.
00:48:24.000 --> 00:48:24.760
Run your race.
00:48:24.760 --> 00:48:31.199
And if you can see a path that you, at the end of the day, think will make you happy, for me, it's great.
00:48:31.440 --> 00:48:35.599
And if you think it could be for you again, I can't recommend it strongly enough.
00:48:36.400 --> 00:48:36.960
Awesome.
00:48:38.480 --> 00:48:49.039
So what one business would you like to spotlight today that you think is doing good work or has a really awesome story or unique product in the.
00:48:49.320 --> 00:48:50.440
In the Twin Cities area?
00:48:50.599 --> 00:48:58.920
You know, just because I shouted him out already, I feel like I have to go back to Groveland Confections, just over in Minnetonka.
00:48:59.320 --> 00:49:01.079
They're a local chocolate shop.
00:49:01.320 --> 00:49:05.480
I told you, I told you about how hard cocoa prices are right now.
00:49:06.039 --> 00:49:07.000
So, I mean, he's.
00:49:07.079 --> 00:49:09.480
Brian's dealing with his own challenges too, but.
00:49:09.480 --> 00:49:14.760
But I mean, like, every time I go in there, I leave with, like, way too much chocolate.
00:49:14.969 --> 00:49:16.329
They do really good work.
00:49:16.570 --> 00:49:19.929
You know, they're ramping up for a super busy holiday season too.
00:49:20.889 --> 00:49:23.210
But, you know, he actually, his story is different.
00:49:23.210 --> 00:49:29.130
He acquired the business, but, you know, he's dealing with hiring employees, seasonal work.
00:49:29.929 --> 00:49:30.650
Seasonal.
00:49:30.809 --> 00:49:36.809
Just sales with, you know, you could imagine being in the chocolate business, how volatile that can be as well too.
00:49:37.769 --> 00:49:39.449
But yeah, we definitely highlight.
00:49:40.090 --> 00:49:46.599
They make some amazing chocolates, have some amazing treats, and just all around really good people working over there too.
00:49:46.760 --> 00:49:47.320
Awesome.
00:49:47.559 --> 00:49:49.960
Thank you so much and thanks for talking with us today.
00:49:49.960 --> 00:49:50.920
This has been lovely.
00:49:50.920 --> 00:49:51.480
Oh, yeah.
00:49:51.480 --> 00:49:53.119
Thank you guys for coming out.
00:49:53.119 --> 00:49:54.679
It was, like, super fun.
00:49:54.679 --> 00:50:02.760
I love being able to share our story and I, again, I do just love talking about entrepreneurship and encouraging more people to take the leap.
00:50:02.920 --> 00:50:03.559
That's great.
00:50:03.719 --> 00:50:04.519
Thanks so much.
00:50:04.760 --> 00:50:10.380
Thank you.
00:50:13.409 --> 00:50:15.170
That was Ryan Hurley of Lagoon.
00:50:15.250 --> 00:50:21.329
You can find lagoon online@lagoonsleep.com and on Instagram lagoonsleep.
00:50:21.730 --> 00:50:25.489
Ryan talked about running your own race instead of getting caught up in comparison.
00:50:25.650 --> 00:50:32.210
We're pretty into that philosophy, especially since business owners often feel like they need to be burning themselves out for the sake of growth.
00:50:32.449 --> 00:50:38.989
If you're building a business that prioritizes balance and leaves space for you as an actual person, we might be your people.
00:50:39.070 --> 00:50:42.670
Check us out@mellolark.com and send us a message if you want to chat.
00:50:42.989 --> 00:50:44.829
Thank you so much for listening today.
00:50:45.070 --> 00:50:54.989
If you've been enjoying the podcast, hop on over to your favorite podcast platform and leave us a glowing review, then follow us on Instagram Ello Lark to get updates of new episodes.
00:50:55.309 --> 00:50:56.030
See you later.