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Hello and welcome.
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I'm Michelle Gray, formerly Al King.
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I'm a neurosomatic coach and consultant and have been working at the intersection of ADHD, trauma, and nervous system restoration for 26 years.
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This is not managed fully lived.
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It's for the woman who has tried all the things and still hitting the wall.
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Either in the life she's built or the one she's expanding into.
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This show gets into the 80%, the biological train, the matic truth, the layer under the layer that every strategy try cannot touch.
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Glad you're here.
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A quick note before we dive in.
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The views and opinions shared by my guests are their own and don't necessarily reflect souljourn coaching and consulting or my personal or professional perspective.
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This podcast is for educational purposes only.
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Take what serves you, leave the rest, and do your own research for your own path.
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Be well.
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And if you're new, welcome.
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Welcome to Not Manage Fully Live.
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I am glad that you found yourself here.
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It is Wednesday in my world, late afternoon, and I'm sitting down to record this podcast on a topic that I have really, really wanted to talk about for a long time.
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I wrote a substack about it.
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But before we dive in, I also want to share, I feel so completely tired in the best possible way, and completely filled up.
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I had a weekend with my girlfriends who live all over the country in the U.S.
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And they come out to Colorado every year at the same time when the leaves are changing.
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And we do all of the adventures, we hike, and we go to the hot springs, and we have delicious food and lots and lots of laughter.
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And I just think about something that my previous guest, Gail Oxford, had shared about how joy is so important.
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And spending this time with them, they were here Thursday to Monday, and realizing how much I laughed and how how fun and like just energetically uplifting it was to have that connection, which is so important.
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So I wish you that for this week.
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I hope that you are able to find joy at some point in your day that you take time to laugh and enjoy the brilliance of your unique wiring.
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That's why we're here, not managed fully lived.
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You are all very brilliant in your own way and have so much to offer.
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And I really want to hear all about what you're doing.
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So definitely reach out to me on Instagram.
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Okay, so let's dive in.
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The title of this podcast episode is The Coaching Industry Needs a Reset.
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Yes, I said it.
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I wrote a subsec about it, as I mentioned, and I'm gonna dive into this today.
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Okay, so I'm gonna set the scene.
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I always think about this movie, and what stood out to me as it relates to this topic is a really crucial part of the movie in Jurassic Park, the original Jurassic Park.
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Okay.
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I don't know how many of you have seen this.
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I'm Gen X, as many of you know, and this was a really pivotal movie for me.
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I loved it so much.
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Anyway, so right after they're doing the lab tour, and I think the, I think the, it was yeah, Malcolm.
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Ian Malcolm, the mathematician, they sit down to lunch, right?
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And he tells the the man who created the park, who built the park.
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He's gathering with the scientists, and he tells them, like, you never really earned this knowledge that you're using.
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You know, he they read what others had done and and they took the next step.
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They they definitely innovated, but they stood on the work of others and they skipped the discipline that it took to understand what they actually had.
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And he basically says, like, you didn't earn the knowledge for yourselves, so you don't take any responsibility for it.
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They were so focused on what they could do that they never stopped to think or ask whether they should.
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My friends, that is the coaching industry right now, and AI is pouring fuel onto it.
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Someone once told me, not that long ago, a couple of months ago, that in coaching now, people don't care about credentials, that they only care about connection.
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And yeah, connection is important, but what I glean from that message is that the industry is rewarding being a strong salesperson and a closer over an actual embodied coach.
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And we need both, folks.
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We need both.
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And right now, the industry is really selling one of them the online space, the social media world, right?
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An abundance of information is not integration, it's critical lack of integration.
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So that is why I am coming to you with this episode, a solo episode, because integrity is one of my deep deepest held values.
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I I really believe personally and professionally that practicing what you preach is so important.
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And I think that that's when we say, you know, authenticity has been a buzzword for a while, it's hard to discern.
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I say this all the time.
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It's so hard to discern online what's real, what's AI.
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Anyone can pull a protocol or a script.
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How many people have the true expertise, the pattern recognition, the lived experience all together?
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And embodiment before it was even a buzzword.
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I mean, I I have said this prior.
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Really building that experience over time when you start to learn, not only for skill development and mastery of coaching itself, because yes, there are skills.
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It's not just you give a prescriptive five-step process, or you're giving someone advice based on your own end of one experiment.
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While those can be helpful, truly that is not what coaching is all about.
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There are specific skills, there are specific ethical guidelines, at least according to the ICF, the International Coach Federation, which is what I have my credential held within that gold standard of coaching.
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So when I started practicing, when I shifted from therapy, social work, case management to coaching, which was in 2008.
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I've shared this before.
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I was living in San Francisco.
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It was intense.
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It was coaching on steroids.
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I was telling my friends over the weekend, we were in an office building in the embarcadero in downtown San Francisco with cubicles.
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I mean, I don't know how many of us, at least, I would have to say at least a hundred.
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And this was before Zoom and this was before video coaching.
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We were on the phone coaching.
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I was coaching college students of all levels, from adult learners to first-time freshmen.
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And uh, you know, with my own neurodivergent brain, it was so challenging to not only feel comfortable speaking to vulnerable topics while other people were listening, but also from a sensory standpoint, it was just really hard for me to block out the noise and distractions, et cetera.
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I would, I had to sit underneath my cubicle.
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I would go underneath my desk and put my hands around my ears so I could focus.
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And simultaneously, that year alone, I would say, um, yeah, a little over a year and a half, I coached probably upwards of, I think it was like 150 clients.
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I mean, that's what I'm saying.
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That one-on-one coaching on steroids set the stage for my ability to develop and master skills in the coaching space.
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And it would at later down the road help to support my leadership as well.
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So I started the practice then, knowing the work was about asking the right questions, open-ended questions, active listening, reflection, summarizing, all of these skills to draw out the client's own wisdom.
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26 years across social work, coaching, leadership, consulting, education, finance, healthcare, tech, and nonprofits.
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I say that because it's important when you have to establish credibility, because so many people can just throw up a hat, throw up an online shingle, and call themselves a coach.
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I firmly believe in the ICF competencies and ethics, and they are my compass.
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And I've watched this industry really explode with alarm.
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And I'm gonna tell you why.
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Um, first profit over proficiency, you know, with this online explosion, follower account and marketing now carry more weight than the ability to actually guide a transformation.
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We see it.
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We see the popularity contest that is essentially on TikTok and Instagram and all these spaces.
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So when people say launch your coaching business, it has become so easy that companies teach sales and they never really vet whether the coach has tested a methodology.
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In fact, I have been in a program, I'm not going to name which one, where the person who was teaching online marketing was advising to new coaches, whether they had clients or not, to just say you have coach, say you have these testimonials, make them up.
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Just put yourself out there.
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I mean, how incredibly deceitful, and how much does that lack integrity?
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But this is common.
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I hear it all the time.
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And someone like myself, who has 26 years experience and the lived experience, alongside someone who is brand new, maybe took a weekend certification, or maybe just did, like I said, an N of one experiment on themselves, was charging the same high ticket.
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Now, that might sound I really and truly don't want this to come across as I have any sort of resentment or bitterness about it.
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Like, and especially I see that so many entrepreneurs and so many online business owners and coaches identify as having ADHD or neurodivergent.
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Yes, we want to build the lives our way.
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We want to, we want to live the way that is gonna help us flourish.
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So this is not to discredit or take away people from going after their freedom.
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I'm I'm bringing though to the surface that in many ways the guardrails have completely come off.
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So someone, like I said, myself included, has the credentialing, the clinical training, thousands of clients, and someone who can simultaneously start with zero, fresh out of a business accelerator, sometimes even less.
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You know, people are hearing this messaging in the spiritual space.
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Charge your worth, price for the transformation, step into it, manifest it, right?
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Before the coach has ever really guided anyone.
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So from the outside, a client, a prospective client or lead really has no way of being able to tell the difference because you see the same sales page structure and testimonial carousels and limited spots, language and urgency, and all the things that we're all taught to do to manufacture a way of building that container.
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And I have to say, it's just a lot of the things that I was told from previous business coaches that I had hired really did not align.
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They did not resonate, they felt out of integrity.
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So I did not do that.
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I will always stand in alignment and integrity before putting on some bro marketer strategy.
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And the newer coaches, like I said, deserve to be paid.
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Every one of us started with zero clients.
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I did, you did potentially, if you're a practitioner.
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The issue, really, though, for me is about transparency.
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When the price signals experience that isn't there, and the client pays for a transformation that the coach hasn't yet learned how to hold, that is a problem.
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And not only does it cost that potential client the high-ticket investment, months of time and energy, one more round of feeling like I've tried everything and this didn't work for me.
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It winds up filing and connecting as proof, more so about the client than the coach.
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Like I've seen so many people that I've worked with who've come to me and have tried everything and even bought courses and programs where the marketing and sales was so fantastic.
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And then there's no depth on the inside.
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There's no real way to move someone through that transformation.
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And what happens is they feel more shame and guilt around why didn't this work?
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And I will share myself.
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I fully believe in paying for mentorship and paying for coaching and growing my skills and capacity as a business owner and entrepreneur.
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I've had some programs that were very effective, but really and truly, like it has not been supportive or nuanced enough or really customized in the way that it was supposed to be.
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Because, yeah, I have a unique situation.
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I come from a tremendous amount of experience and years working within academic worlds, within corporate worlds, doing consulting and tech, and I have so much proven methodology and client outcomes.
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Like the positive outcomes and transformations are there.
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So, how is that translated into the online space?
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It doesn't always fit into a clean box.
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Okay, so going back to Malcolm, right?
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Going back to Jurassic Park.
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Again, the knowledge was borrowed, and nobody held responsibility for what happened.
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And that is what I'm seeing, my friends.
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And you can talk about being a seven, eight-figure earner that your company is blowing up, and you're all over Instagram and TikTok shouting to the rooftops about how much revenue you have and whatnot, or how much you're able to manifest.
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And that's great.
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I think it's fantastic to be able, especially for women, to earn and have the ability to give that back because I know this from the data.
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The more women who earn and build wealth and accumulate wealth, the studies do show that women tend to give back in service to community, to future generations.
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So I think it's wonderful.
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I want everyone to be able to have financial freedom.
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But at the cost of overselling and under-delivering, no.
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And I don't support that.
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And that's not something that I will ever do.
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So, what is the result for the client on the other side?
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Again, right?
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Another planner, another mindset hack, another five-step fix while her body continues to remain in fight or flight.
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Again, abundance of information out there, but a critical lack of integration.
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Okay, so let's talk about what coaching actually is.
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According to my framework, my POV, the International Coach Federation, again, gold standard for coaching.
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The foundation is that the client is whole, wise, resourceful, and capable.
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A coach is supposed to walk alongside you.
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We're here to be a true partner in your process.
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Yes, we highlight blind spots, blind spots, and limiting beliefs.
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And we really focus on illuminating your strengths, drawing out what's possible, focusing on not only what's here and then here and now, but what is the future hold?
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What is the life that you have, but the one that you want to expand into?
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And truly the goal of coaching is to work yourself out of a job.
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And the and lived experience is valuable.
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For sure, it's valuable, as is my own lived experience.
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When I talk about the trials and tribulations and crises and trauma and all the things that have really shaped who I am personally and professionally, what brought me to my knees when we had this such a huge loss in my family, all of it, it changes who you are.
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Your lived experience is integral.
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And your client is not you.
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Your client is a different person with a different nervous system.
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So advice, mentoring, and consulting, these all have their own place.
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But the problem is people call those things coaching, and they are not.
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Here is a really quick example.
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I have seen so many people who call themselves coaches just, here's what you're gonna do.
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And you're just giving out, they're giving out prescriptive advice.
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They're giving out recommendations, they're telling people what to do.
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And here's a good distinction.
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When someone gives you advice, there is a certain part of your brain that receives it.
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When someone asks you an open-ended question, a completely different part of your brain receives it.
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And that part of your brain is more open and more receptive because what you are percolating on or computing or processing is creating more curiosity, more initiation, more motivation, and you're more likely to execute on the results.
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Okay, that is a great example just to give you a sense of the difference.
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Okay, so I want to give you more of an overview of the distinction and nuance.
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So I'm gonna show you what I mean.
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I'm gonna give you the same client in two distinct sessions.
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We're gonna walk through coaching sessions.
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This is cool because I've been thinking about wanting to do this, and I think it's really effective.
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So here's client a coach.
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quote unquote A.
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This is the advice session.
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Okay, client comes in.
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I get everything done by noon and by two I'm useless.
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Then I crash all weekend.
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So the coach says, oh my gosh, I was so you.
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Okay, here's what changed everything for me.
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I get up at five, no phone for an hour, cold plunge, I time block my whole day in 30 minute chunks.
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You have to protect your mornings.
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The client says I've tried time blocking.
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It kind of it falls off by Wednesday.
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The coach, I mean that's just resistance talking.
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Discipline is a muscle.
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Push through the first 21 days.
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I'll send you my planner template.
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Cut sugar.
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That was huge for me.
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Client says okay, yeah, I'll I'll try it I guess coach, you've got this mindset is everything.
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Check in next week and tell me how you crushed it.
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Okay.
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Let's look at this.
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Let's debrief this for a second.
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Zero questions, my friends, three prescriptions, all from the coach's own life.
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The coach took the client's entire story and made it all about themselves within one sentence.
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Resistance turned her real data, right, falling off by Wednesday into a character flaw.
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Okay, yeah, as the client said, was just compliance.
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Her nervous system fawned, she said yes just to end the conversation.
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And next week when she comes back having quote unquote failed and files that is again more proof that something is wrong with her, the coach is going to reinforce that message.
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So the go-go crash cycle as I call it just got a coach.
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All right we're going to move on and I'm going to give you a play by play for a true coaching session.
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Now this is really really important if you're trying to figure out what support looks like save this share this with friends folks.
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This is what a true coaching session should be client comes in, coach asks, what would you like to walk away with today?
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And the client says well I get everything done by noon and by two o'clock I'm useless.
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Then I crash all weekend I want to figure out how to stop that the coach says everything done by noon nothing left by two and the weekend goes to recovery what's happening in your body around 130 and the client says honestly buzziness anx anxiety I feel like my jaws tight I just I skip lunch because I'm already on a roll and the coach says you're on a roll what what does being on a roll give you the client after a long pause proof proof I'm I'm keeping up if I stop I'm scared I won't start again and the coach says scared you won't start again where do you feel that fear right now as you say it the client says my chest it's kind of thumping so the coach says let's stay with it for just one breath just notice it the coach says again What's shifting client You know what it actually softened a little I think I've been running on fumes and calling it momentum So the coach asks Well running on fumes and calling it momentum what do you want to do with that what you just noticed so the client says maybe actually stop at noon take 10 minutes eat something coach says okay 10 minutes at noon how will you know if it's working and client shares I guess if I still have something left at three so the coach says okay what might get in the way and what support do you want from me between now and next time all right so I'm going to stop right there.
00:26:54.079 --> 00:27:06.480
I think you can assess how completely different those two examples were let's look at the second one right where it was a true coaching experience.
00:27:07.359 --> 00:28:13.920
The coach there's an establishment of agreements open with what she wants ask the client what she wants from the session listens actively reflects back her exact words like on a roll running on fumes the coach maintains presence builds space in the meeting holds the pauses lets things unfold right the silence really did the work let the fear you let her get you let her get to the fear itself essentially that's what the coach did coach evokes awareness what does being unarled give you it surfaced that question surfaced the belief under the pattern and the layer on top of ICF which will really is part of my methodology when I look at the portal method which is pause orient regulate trust align and lead every session that I do with clients is in that framework.
00:28:14.160 --> 00:29:00.000
So we look at the body we check in we take the breath we see what's happening live it's all happening live in the moment this my friends builds in capacity this builds in regulation it facilitates growth and then at the end in that in that example she authored the action 10 minutes the client came up with it small specific it was hers it was not the coach to give eat lunch is advice anyone could have given her the difference is she found it after she's her state shifted right state before strategy always.
00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:36.799
So her body actually let her do it the energetics and subconscious state create the story then the strategy follows why the body first you know that if you've been here with me you cannot think your way out of a pattern your body is holding you cannot talk think organize or effort your way out of chronic dysregulation my friends the state shift is a pattern interrupt it is the doorway to real change.
00:29:37.359 --> 00:29:53.200
And I'll reference Bruce Perry's sequence Bruce Perry says regulate relate reason strategy targets the part of the brain that comes online last and it goes offline first under stress.
00:29:53.839 --> 00:30:57.920
So my three pillars in order nervous system regulation whole person well-being optimization strategies last and that is the difference between information and integration so if you are out there in the abyss of the coaching space you're trying to seek support you've been trying all the things you've been doing the work you've tried talk therapy all of the hacks the mindset tools the apps etc and you're trying to figure out what's next I really want you to listen to this part it's really important here are some questions I'm going to give you six questions that I want you to use when you're interviewing a coach or a practitioner number one what's your training and what ethics or code of ethics do you follow?
00:30:59.359 --> 00:31:11.359
Core competencies etc number two can you describe your methodology in plain language number three how many clients have you actually guided through this specific work?
00:31:11.519 --> 00:31:13.039
What were the outcomes?
00:31:13.359 --> 00:34:25.199
Number four how do you know when someone isn't a fit for your work number five what happens when my body says no to the plan that's a good one number six in a typical session who does most of the talking and here's the anchor look for someone credentialed and embodied it should be a mix of science and soul it should be a mix of expertise and lived experience it I'm speaking in most cases I'm talking about the neurodivergence space is this could be health coaching this could be business coaching it what have you so if this is the path you walk I want to invite you to come walk it with me because everything that I've shared today if it resonates then I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you a few ways where we can connect you could find me on Instagram I like we can have conversation there you can find me on Substack this podcast you're here listening but here is a follow-up I have an autonomic assessment it's free it's a free quiz it's short it's based on a proprietary and statistical assessment that I use in my program and it will map where you are on the go-go crash cycle it will map your nervous system so that is the first step or a step I'll put the link in the show notes we take the quiz you'll receive your response you'll be one of four archetypes and with those archetypes you'll get information on how to start shifting your state if you're ready to talk and you're ready to know what does support look like how could we work together and have a variety of ways to work with clients and going into Q4 I have some very specific offers very specific ways for us to work together um book a free capacity consultation I'm gonna put both links in the show notes the capacity consultation is a diagnostic it is a way for us to connect you don't have to prepare anything you just show up we're gonna talk through what's draining your energy what's keeping you stuck what have you tried before what you could do next we'll map out a plan for you to leave that session with regardless if we decide to work together or not both links are in there and I really really and truly appreciate you being here today hope you have a beautiful rest of your week and we will talk soon thank you for being here if this connected with you subscribe so you don't miss what's next.
00:34:25.360 --> 00:34:29.440
And come find me on Instagram or Substack at SouljournCoach.
00:34:29.679 --> 00:34:32.639
Not managed fully lived and I'll see you next time.
00:34:32.800 --> 00:34:33.679
Take care
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Hello and welcome.
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I'm Michelle Gray, formerly Al King.
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I'm a neurosomatic coach and consultant and have been working at the intersection of ADHD, trauma, and nervous system restoration for 26 years.
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This is not managed fully lived.
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It's for the woman who has tried all the things and still hitting the wall.
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Either in the life she's built or the one she's expanding into.
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This show gets into the 80%, the biological train, the matic truth, the layer under the layer that every strategy try cannot touch.
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Glad you're here.
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A quick note before we dive in.
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The views and opinions shared by my guests are their own and don't necessarily reflect souljourn coaching and consulting or my personal or professional perspective.
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This podcast is for educational purposes only.
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Take what serves you, leave the rest, and do your own research for your own path.
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Be well.
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And if you're new, welcome.
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Welcome to Not Manage Fully Live.
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I am glad that you found yourself here.
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It is Wednesday in my world, late afternoon, and I'm sitting down to record this podcast on a topic that I have really, really wanted to talk about for a long time.
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I wrote a substack about it.
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But before we dive in, I also want to share, I feel so completely tired in the best possible way, and completely filled up.
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I had a weekend with my girlfriends who live all over the country in the U.S.
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And they come out to Colorado every year at the same time when the leaves are changing.
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And we do all of the adventures, we hike, and we go to the hot springs, and we have delicious food and lots and lots of laughter.
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And I just think about something that my previous guest, Gail Oxford, had shared about how joy is so important.
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And spending this time with them, they were here Thursday to Monday, and realizing how much I laughed and how how fun and like just energetically uplifting it was to have that connection, which is so important.
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So I wish you that for this week.
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I hope that you are able to find joy at some point in your day that you take time to laugh and enjoy the brilliance of your unique wiring.
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That's why we're here, not managed fully lived.
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You are all very brilliant in your own way and have so much to offer.
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And I really want to hear all about what you're doing.
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So definitely reach out to me on Instagram.
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Okay, so let's dive in.
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The title of this podcast episode is The Coaching Industry Needs a Reset.
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Yes, I said it.
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I wrote a subsec about it, as I mentioned, and I'm gonna dive into this today.
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Okay, so I'm gonna set the scene.
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I always think about this movie, and what stood out to me as it relates to this topic is a really crucial part of the movie in Jurassic Park, the original Jurassic Park.
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Okay.
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I don't know how many of you have seen this.
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I'm Gen X, as many of you know, and this was a really pivotal movie for me.
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I loved it so much.
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Anyway, so right after they're doing the lab tour, and I think the, I think the, it was yeah, Malcolm.
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Ian Malcolm, the mathematician, they sit down to lunch, right?
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And he tells the the man who created the park, who built the park.
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He's gathering with the scientists, and he tells them, like, you never really earned this knowledge that you're using.
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You know, he they read what others had done and and they took the next step.
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They they definitely innovated, but they stood on the work of others and they skipped the discipline that it took to understand what they actually had.
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And he basically says, like, you didn't earn the knowledge for yourselves, so you don't take any responsibility for it.
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They were so focused on what they could do that they never stopped to think or ask whether they should.
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My friends, that is the coaching industry right now, and AI is pouring fuel onto it.
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Someone once told me, not that long ago, a couple of months ago, that in coaching now, people don't care about credentials, that they only care about connection.
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And yeah, connection is important, but what I glean from that message is that the industry is rewarding being a strong salesperson and a closer over an actual embodied coach.
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And we need both, folks.
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We need both.
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And right now, the industry is really selling one of them the online space, the social media world, right?
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An abundance of information is not integration, it's critical lack of integration.
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So that is why I am coming to you with this episode, a solo episode, because integrity is one of my deep deepest held values.
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I I really believe personally and professionally that practicing what you preach is so important.
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And I think that that's when we say, you know, authenticity has been a buzzword for a while, it's hard to discern.
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I say this all the time.
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It's so hard to discern online what's real, what's AI.
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Anyone can pull a protocol or a script.
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How many people have the true expertise, the pattern recognition, the lived experience all together?
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And embodiment before it was even a buzzword.
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I mean, I I have said this prior.
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Really building that experience over time when you start to learn, not only for skill development and mastery of coaching itself, because yes, there are skills.
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It's not just you give a prescriptive five-step process, or you're giving someone advice based on your own end of one experiment.
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While those can be helpful, truly that is not what coaching is all about.
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There are specific skills, there are specific ethical guidelines, at least according to the ICF, the International Coach Federation, which is what I have my credential held within that gold standard of coaching.
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So when I started practicing, when I shifted from therapy, social work, case management to coaching, which was in 2008.
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I've shared this before.
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I was living in San Francisco.
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It was intense.
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It was coaching on steroids.
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I was telling my friends over the weekend, we were in an office building in the embarcadero in downtown San Francisco with cubicles.
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I mean, I don't know how many of us, at least, I would have to say at least a hundred.
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And this was before Zoom and this was before video coaching.
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We were on the phone coaching.
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I was coaching college students of all levels, from adult learners to first-time freshmen.
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And uh, you know, with my own neurodivergent brain, it was so challenging to not only feel comfortable speaking to vulnerable topics while other people were listening, but also from a sensory standpoint, it was just really hard for me to block out the noise and distractions, et cetera.
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I would, I had to sit underneath my cubicle.
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I would go underneath my desk and put my hands around my ears so I could focus.
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And simultaneously, that year alone, I would say, um, yeah, a little over a year and a half, I coached probably upwards of, I think it was like 150 clients.
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I mean, that's what I'm saying.
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That one-on-one coaching on steroids set the stage for my ability to develop and master skills in the coaching space.
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And it would at later down the road help to support my leadership as well.
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So I started the practice then, knowing the work was about asking the right questions, open-ended questions, active listening, reflection, summarizing, all of these skills to draw out the client's own wisdom.
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26 years across social work, coaching, leadership, consulting, education, finance, healthcare, tech, and nonprofits.
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I say that because it's important when you have to establish credibility, because so many people can just throw up a hat, throw up an online shingle, and call themselves a coach.
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I firmly believe in the ICF competencies and ethics, and they are my compass.
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And I've watched this industry really explode with alarm.
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And I'm gonna tell you why.
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Um, first profit over proficiency, you know, with this online explosion, follower account and marketing now carry more weight than the ability to actually guide a transformation.
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We see it.
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We see the popularity contest that is essentially on TikTok and Instagram and all these spaces.
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So when people say launch your coaching business, it has become so easy that companies teach sales and they never really vet whether the coach has tested a methodology.
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In fact, I have been in a program, I'm not going to name which one, where the person who was teaching online marketing was advising to new coaches, whether they had clients or not, to just say you have coach, say you have these testimonials, make them up.
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Just put yourself out there.
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I mean, how incredibly deceitful, and how much does that lack integrity?
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But this is common.
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I hear it all the time.
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And someone like myself, who has 26 years experience and the lived experience, alongside someone who is brand new, maybe took a weekend certification, or maybe just did, like I said, an N of one experiment on themselves, was charging the same high ticket.
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Now, that might sound I really and truly don't want this to come across as I have any sort of resentment or bitterness about it.
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Like, and especially I see that so many entrepreneurs and so many online business owners and coaches identify as having ADHD or neurodivergent.
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Yes, we want to build the lives our way.
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We want to, we want to live the way that is gonna help us flourish.
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So this is not to discredit or take away people from going after their freedom.
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I'm I'm bringing though to the surface that in many ways the guardrails have completely come off.
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So someone, like I said, myself included, has the credentialing, the clinical training, thousands of clients, and someone who can simultaneously start with zero, fresh out of a business accelerator, sometimes even less.
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You know, people are hearing this messaging in the spiritual space.
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Charge your worth, price for the transformation, step into it, manifest it, right?
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Before the coach has ever really guided anyone.
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So from the outside, a client, a prospective client or lead really has no way of being able to tell the difference because you see the same sales page structure and testimonial carousels and limited spots, language and urgency, and all the things that we're all taught to do to manufacture a way of building that container.
00:14:07.039 --> 00:14:15.840
And I have to say, it's just a lot of the things that I was told from previous business coaches that I had hired really did not align.
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They did not resonate, they felt out of integrity.
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So I did not do that.
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I will always stand in alignment and integrity before putting on some bro marketer strategy.
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And the newer coaches, like I said, deserve to be paid.
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Every one of us started with zero clients.
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I did, you did potentially, if you're a practitioner.
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The issue, really, though, for me is about transparency.
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When the price signals experience that isn't there, and the client pays for a transformation that the coach hasn't yet learned how to hold, that is a problem.
00:15:02.399 --> 00:15:16.879
And not only does it cost that potential client the high-ticket investment, months of time and energy, one more round of feeling like I've tried everything and this didn't work for me.
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It winds up filing and connecting as proof, more so about the client than the coach.
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Like I've seen so many people that I've worked with who've come to me and have tried everything and even bought courses and programs where the marketing and sales was so fantastic.
00:15:41.279 --> 00:15:43.360
And then there's no depth on the inside.
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There's no real way to move someone through that transformation.
00:15:47.919 --> 00:15:53.759
And what happens is they feel more shame and guilt around why didn't this work?
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And I will share myself.
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I fully believe in paying for mentorship and paying for coaching and growing my skills and capacity as a business owner and entrepreneur.
00:16:06.320 --> 00:16:20.799
I've had some programs that were very effective, but really and truly, like it has not been supportive or nuanced enough or really customized in the way that it was supposed to be.
00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:26.000
Because, yeah, I have a unique situation.
00:16:26.240 --> 00:16:44.399
I come from a tremendous amount of experience and years working within academic worlds, within corporate worlds, doing consulting and tech, and I have so much proven methodology and client outcomes.
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Like the positive outcomes and transformations are there.
00:16:48.159 --> 00:16:51.039
So, how is that translated into the online space?
00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:53.919
It doesn't always fit into a clean box.
00:16:54.960 --> 00:16:59.440
Okay, so going back to Malcolm, right?
00:16:59.600 --> 00:17:01.440
Going back to Jurassic Park.
00:17:01.759 --> 00:17:07.599
Again, the knowledge was borrowed, and nobody held responsibility for what happened.
00:17:07.680 --> 00:17:10.079
And that is what I'm seeing, my friends.
00:17:10.400 --> 00:17:28.880
And you can talk about being a seven, eight-figure earner that your company is blowing up, and you're all over Instagram and TikTok shouting to the rooftops about how much revenue you have and whatnot, or how much you're able to manifest.
00:17:28.960 --> 00:17:30.160
And that's great.
00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:43.519
I think it's fantastic to be able, especially for women, to earn and have the ability to give that back because I know this from the data.
00:17:43.839 --> 00:17:58.160
The more women who earn and build wealth and accumulate wealth, the studies do show that women tend to give back in service to community, to future generations.
00:17:58.480 --> 00:18:00.319
So I think it's wonderful.
00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:04.720
I want everyone to be able to have financial freedom.
00:18:05.039 --> 00:18:11.039
But at the cost of overselling and under-delivering, no.
00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:12.640
And I don't support that.
00:18:12.799 --> 00:18:16.000
And that's not something that I will ever do.
00:18:17.519 --> 00:18:21.920
So, what is the result for the client on the other side?
00:18:22.160 --> 00:18:22.799
Again, right?
00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:30.880
Another planner, another mindset hack, another five-step fix while her body continues to remain in fight or flight.
00:18:31.359 --> 00:18:37.519
Again, abundance of information out there, but a critical lack of integration.
00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:44.319
Okay, so let's talk about what coaching actually is.
00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:53.839
According to my framework, my POV, the International Coach Federation, again, gold standard for coaching.
00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:58.799
The foundation is that the client is whole, wise, resourceful, and capable.
00:18:59.119 --> 00:19:02.480
A coach is supposed to walk alongside you.
00:19:02.559 --> 00:19:06.799
We're here to be a true partner in your process.
00:19:07.279 --> 00:19:11.839
Yes, we highlight blind spots, blind spots, and limiting beliefs.
00:19:12.319 --> 00:19:26.880
And we really focus on illuminating your strengths, drawing out what's possible, focusing on not only what's here and then here and now, but what is the future hold?
00:19:27.039 --> 00:19:31.200
What is the life that you have, but the one that you want to expand into?
00:19:31.519 --> 00:19:36.480
And truly the goal of coaching is to work yourself out of a job.
00:19:37.519 --> 00:19:40.559
And the and lived experience is valuable.
00:19:40.880 --> 00:19:44.559
For sure, it's valuable, as is my own lived experience.
00:19:44.720 --> 00:20:04.079
When I talk about the trials and tribulations and crises and trauma and all the things that have really shaped who I am personally and professionally, what brought me to my knees when we had this such a huge loss in my family, all of it, it changes who you are.
00:20:04.240 --> 00:20:07.039
Your lived experience is integral.
00:20:08.799 --> 00:20:12.880
And your client is not you.
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Your client is a different person with a different nervous system.
00:20:17.440 --> 00:20:22.160
So advice, mentoring, and consulting, these all have their own place.
00:20:23.039 --> 00:20:28.559
But the problem is people call those things coaching, and they are not.
00:20:29.119 --> 00:20:31.839
Here is a really quick example.
00:20:32.079 --> 00:20:37.200
I have seen so many people who call themselves coaches just, here's what you're gonna do.
00:20:37.279 --> 00:20:40.559
And you're just giving out, they're giving out prescriptive advice.
00:20:40.720 --> 00:20:44.400
They're giving out recommendations, they're telling people what to do.
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And here's a good distinction.
00:20:47.599 --> 00:20:54.880
When someone gives you advice, there is a certain part of your brain that receives it.
00:20:55.599 --> 00:21:02.720
When someone asks you an open-ended question, a completely different part of your brain receives it.
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And that part of your brain is more open and more receptive because what you are percolating on or computing or processing is creating more curiosity, more initiation, more motivation, and you're more likely to execute on the results.
00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:31.039
Okay, that is a great example just to give you a sense of the difference.
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Okay, so I want to give you more of an overview of the distinction and nuance.
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So I'm gonna show you what I mean.
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I'm gonna give you the same client in two distinct sessions.
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We're gonna walk through coaching sessions.
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This is cool because I've been thinking about wanting to do this, and I think it's really effective.
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So here's client a coach.
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quote unquote A.
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This is the advice session.
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Okay, client comes in.
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I get everything done by noon and by two I'm useless.
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Then I crash all weekend.
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So the coach says, oh my gosh, I was so you.
00:22:16.960 --> 00:22:19.119
Okay, here's what changed everything for me.
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I get up at five, no phone for an hour, cold plunge, I time block my whole day in 30 minute chunks.
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You have to protect your mornings.
00:22:28.720 --> 00:22:31.759
The client says I've tried time blocking.
00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:34.960
It kind of it falls off by Wednesday.
00:22:35.279 --> 00:22:38.880
The coach, I mean that's just resistance talking.
00:22:39.119 --> 00:22:40.640
Discipline is a muscle.
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Push through the first 21 days.
00:22:43.119 --> 00:22:45.200
I'll send you my planner template.
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Cut sugar.
00:22:46.319 --> 00:22:47.680
That was huge for me.
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Client says okay, yeah, I'll I'll try it I guess coach, you've got this mindset is everything.
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Check in next week and tell me how you crushed it.
00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:00.799
Okay.
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Let's look at this.
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Let's debrief this for a second.
00:23:05.839 --> 00:23:11.759
Zero questions, my friends, three prescriptions, all from the coach's own life.
00:23:12.079 --> 00:23:18.960
The coach took the client's entire story and made it all about themselves within one sentence.
00:23:19.759 --> 00:23:26.960
Resistance turned her real data, right, falling off by Wednesday into a character flaw.
00:23:27.359 --> 00:23:31.119
Okay, yeah, as the client said, was just compliance.
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Her nervous system fawned, she said yes just to end the conversation.
00:23:38.640 --> 00:23:51.440
And next week when she comes back having quote unquote failed and files that is again more proof that something is wrong with her, the coach is going to reinforce that message.
00:23:52.960 --> 00:23:57.920
So the go-go crash cycle as I call it just got a coach.
00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:06.559
All right we're going to move on and I'm going to give you a play by play for a true coaching session.
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Now this is really really important if you're trying to figure out what support looks like save this share this with friends folks.
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This is what a true coaching session should be client comes in, coach asks, what would you like to walk away with today?
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And the client says well I get everything done by noon and by two o'clock I'm useless.
00:24:33.440 --> 00:26:53.839
Then I crash all weekend I want to figure out how to stop that the coach says everything done by noon nothing left by two and the weekend goes to recovery what's happening in your body around 130 and the client says honestly buzziness anx anxiety I feel like my jaws tight I just I skip lunch because I'm already on a roll and the coach says you're on a roll what what does being on a roll give you the client after a long pause proof proof I'm I'm keeping up if I stop I'm scared I won't start again and the coach says scared you won't start again where do you feel that fear right now as you say it the client says my chest it's kind of thumping so the coach says let's stay with it for just one breath just notice it the coach says again What's shifting client You know what it actually softened a little I think I've been running on fumes and calling it momentum So the coach asks Well running on fumes and calling it momentum what do you want to do with that what you just noticed so the client says maybe actually stop at noon take 10 minutes eat something coach says okay 10 minutes at noon how will you know if it's working and client shares I guess if I still have something left at three so the coach says okay what might get in the way and what support do you want from me between now and next time all right so I'm going to stop right there.
00:26:54.079 --> 00:27:06.480
I think you can assess how completely different those two examples were let's look at the second one right where it was a true coaching experience.
00:27:07.359 --> 00:28:13.920
The coach there's an establishment of agreements open with what she wants ask the client what she wants from the session listens actively reflects back her exact words like on a roll running on fumes the coach maintains presence builds space in the meeting holds the pauses lets things unfold right the silence really did the work let the fear you let her get you let her get to the fear itself essentially that's what the coach did coach evokes awareness what does being unarled give you it surfaced that question surfaced the belief under the pattern and the layer on top of ICF which will really is part of my methodology when I look at the portal method which is pause orient regulate trust align and lead every session that I do with clients is in that framework.
00:28:14.160 --> 00:29:00.000
So we look at the body we check in we take the breath we see what's happening live it's all happening live in the moment this my friends builds in capacity this builds in regulation it facilitates growth and then at the end in that in that example she authored the action 10 minutes the client came up with it small specific it was hers it was not the coach to give eat lunch is advice anyone could have given her the difference is she found it after she's her state shifted right state before strategy always.
00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:36.799
So her body actually let her do it the energetics and subconscious state create the story then the strategy follows why the body first you know that if you've been here with me you cannot think your way out of a pattern your body is holding you cannot talk think organize or effort your way out of chronic dysregulation my friends the state shift is a pattern interrupt it is the doorway to real change.
00:29:37.359 --> 00:29:53.200
And I'll reference Bruce Perry's sequence Bruce Perry says regulate relate reason strategy targets the part of the brain that comes online last and it goes offline first under stress.
00:29:53.839 --> 00:30:57.920
So my three pillars in order nervous system regulation whole person well-being optimization strategies last and that is the difference between information and integration so if you are out there in the abyss of the coaching space you're trying to seek support you've been trying all the things you've been doing the work you've tried talk therapy all of the hacks the mindset tools the apps etc and you're trying to figure out what's next I really want you to listen to this part it's really important here are some questions I'm going to give you six questions that I want you to use when you're interviewing a coach or a practitioner number one what's your training and what ethics or code of ethics do you follow?
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Core competencies etc number two can you describe your methodology in plain language number three how many clients have you actually guided through this specific work?
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What were the outcomes?
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Number four how do you know when someone isn't a fit for your work number five what happens when my body says no to the plan that's a good one number six in a typical session who does most of the talking and here's the anchor look for someone credentialed and embodied it should be a mix of science and soul it should be a mix of expertise and lived experience it I'm speaking in most cases I'm talking about the neurodivergence space is this could be health coaching this could be business coaching it what have you so if this is the path you walk I want to invite you to come walk it with me because everything that I've shared today if it resonates then I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you a few ways where we can connect you could find me on Instagram I like we can have conversation there you can find me on Substack this podcast you're here listening but here is a follow-up I have an autonomic assessment it's free it's a free quiz it's short it's based on a proprietary and statistical assessment that I use in my program and it will map where you are on the go-go crash cycle it will map your nervous system so that is the first step or a step I'll put the link in the show notes we take the quiz you'll receive your response you'll be one of four archetypes and with those archetypes you'll get information on how to start shifting your state if you're ready to talk and you're ready to know what does support look like how could we work together and have a variety of ways to work with clients and going into Q4 I have some very specific offers very specific ways for us to work together um book a free capacity consultation I'm gonna put both links in the show notes the capacity consultation is a diagnostic it is a way for us to connect you don't have to prepare anything you just show up we're gonna talk through what's draining your energy what's keeping you stuck what have you tried before what you could do next we'll map out a plan for you to leave that session with regardless if we decide to work together or not both links are in there and I really really and truly appreciate you being here today hope you have a beautiful rest of your week and we will talk soon thank you for being here if this connected with you subscribe so you don't miss what's next.
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And come find me on Instagram or Substack at SouljournCoach.
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Not managed fully lived and I'll see you next time.
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Take care
