00:00:01
Speaker 1: The volume. No, Oh my god, how could he do that?
00:00:15
Speaker 2: Don't watch.
00:00:18
Speaker 3: What Charles Darwin.
00:00:20
Speaker 1: The nerves is where it's at.
00:00:23
Speaker 2: Welcome everybody back into Dirt Session.
00:00:25
Speaker 4: As always, I'm Carson Breber alongside and he is Logan Camden, and today we got a bunch of wonderful basketball to talk about with you all. And we'll start Logan with a discussion related to what was the performance of the day Yesterday Steph Curry went out there and hung fifty six points on an elite Orlando Magic defense. This just continues a trend of him playing at a very, very high level since Jimmy Butler joined the team.
00:00:55
Speaker 2: Do you think.
00:00:56
Speaker 4: Steph is still a top three offensive player on the planet.
00:01:02
Speaker 1: I'm on the fence with this one, man. I think that if he's in the top three, he would be number three. I can't put him over Nicola Jokic. I don't think I can put him over Luka Doncic, even though that Luke has been in a little bit of a spell here recently. The guy I'm debating between is him and SGA, And it's really just the complete value that I get from Steph right because I think on a game to game basis, I probably prefer SGA's consistency as a scorer. But the thing with Steph is you just can't really quantify all of his gravity on offense in one number. I will say the one thing that really impressed me from this Orlando game one obviously just the superb shooting that we get from Steph. He goes twelve of nineteen from deep. He also cashed a ridiculous half court heave I think at halftime. Yeah, he just does stuff that you like, can't possibly defend, you know, such a quick trigger, elite catching shooter, coming off screens and immediately pulling, and he's got this impossibly quick release. Those are all the tenets of Steph being the greatest shooter of all time. What really impressed me and this one was how much he was getting downhill and getting to the rim man how much he was turning the corner on top of that.
00:02:12
Speaker 2: But well, that seems generous. I mean, I think the impressive.
00:02:15
Speaker 1: Part was the twelve three for sure, But it's just Steph doesn't normally do that, and I think he was doing a really good job of After he was hitting and they were playing up higher on him, he was weaponizing that in getting downhill more and anytime he's getting downhill. I just think Steph is uber effective. And Steph just improves this offense by so much. He improves them by nearly thirteen points offensively. They go from an offensive rating of one nineteen with him on the court to one oh six point two without him. He also improves the teams This is the most ridiculous number to me. He improved the team's effective field goal percentage by nearly seven percent when he's on the court, and I just think that number speaks to the shot quality that Steph generates. That's a good number then, you know, not just plays where he's touching the ball or passing it. That one, I do think really speaks to his gravity as a basketball player. Uh, I'm going to say no, I think he's number four. I think I marginally prefer SGA because of his consistency as a scorer. But it's so close, man, Steph is still so damn good. But I think that I think the Butler deal has breathed some new life into Steph a lot and this Warriors team in a lot of ways. The Luca trade and what it did for the Lakers I hate leaving Steph out of the top three because I do think he's one of the best in the league right now. But I think I just got to tip my cap to SGA.
00:03:42
Speaker 4: I want to start by just appreciating what as what Steph did in this game and what he's been doing in eight games since Jimmy joined the team. Steph Curry is averaging thirty point six points per game on seventy percent true shooting, unbelievable volume, unreal efficiency, and the team is seven to one and they've looked really, really good on both sides of the ball. It's not just the talent injection. It's the energy that Jimmy provides. It's his versatility on both sides of the floor that has just been so impactful.
00:04:11
Speaker 2: And his shooting.
00:04:13
Speaker 4: Steph shooting is just so godlike that if you just give him another legitimate creator and playmaker in this offense, like he can explode with this sort of efficiency, and that's what we've seen now. The burden on him night after night was just so crazy earlier in the year and throughout last year. And by the way, Jimmy didn't do anything as a scorer in this game. He was Yeah, but overall he has been able to bring so much offensive value with his mismatch attacking in spots, with his cutting, and with his playmaking as much as anything, just his ability to be that connective passer.
00:04:46
Speaker 2: But this is just one of those video.
00:04:48
Speaker 4: Game performances from Steph where you're like, this dude is not real. I mean, some of the shots that he is pulling off movement, so much of it came curling around screens with just these air tight wins.
00:05:00
Speaker 2: Knows some of the stuff off the dribble, the step back.
00:05:02
Speaker 4: Threes towards the end of this game, like heat check after heat check, and he is just draining every one of them. And this just continues to make history for Steph. He is the most explosive score in terms of just those stints. Right, A Steph Curry flurry is more explosive than anything that we've seen in the past decade plus at least, I mean, maybe as explosive as any scorer that we have ever seen. Since twenty fifteen, he has forty quarters with twenty or more points. Next most is James Harden with twenty nine. Obviously, part of this is just like the three point volume, the fact that the three point shooting is on parallel, and when you put together a string of unbelievable three point shooting, that just compounds more quickly than if you're putting together two after two after two. He has fourteen games with eleven or more threes made. Next most all time is and Clay with just four. He has twenty six games with ten or more threes made. Next most is Clay with nine. So the history of it is remarkable. But this season, you look at STEP's bottom line production, a lot of people were thrown out, a lot of slander. I remember, Logan, you made the whole video about how Kendrick Perkins was being his usual idiotic self, saying that Steph didn't deserve to be in the All Star Game when he was obviously deservedly a lock. The production looks pretty darn good now, twenty four points and six assists per game on sixty one percent true shooting, But obviously that totally under sells the impact. You mentioned how much he's improved the Warriors offense by that's a number that's only surpassed by Jokic this year. I believe and SGA is right there with Steph. They basically have the same number. It's just a gravity, man, It's the same thing that it's always been. It's when he's flying off an off ball screen and two guys go to the ball and it just frees up a wide.
00:06:55
Speaker 2: Open cut for a teammate.
00:06:56
Speaker 4: Like it's every single time he is running around the floor, multiple defenders are locked in on him. It's just unprecedented off ball attention. And he still has that as much as he ever has.
00:07:08
Speaker 1: Well, I was gonna say, dude, and that's why I'm so confident that even as Steph ages and I know we've talked about this Amiria a myriad of times over the last five years. Steph's getting older, right, He's losing some of that athletic pop. He doesn't get downhill and gets to the rim as much. I mean, he can still do this whenever he gets like that. And with shooters, especially the greatest shooter of all time, it's like when shots are falling like this, the team feels it around him where they are feeding him the ball, they are looking to feed him the rock. We saw it in the Olympics. It's just a feel thing where the basket feels massive, and I know that's a cliche, but it really does in the degree of difficulty. But that's why I'm so confident in Steph's game, aging so gracefully and him still being able to be uber effective even as he continues to age and get older and lose some of this at Yeah there, it's shit that you just can't defend as an NBA defense, Like they're unstoppable shots. And as long as Steph still has that cardio in, as long as he has his legs underneath him. Like, don't get me wrong, it's just I don't expect it to be like a drastic fall off or a decline or anything like that. Like, I still think Steph is going to provide elite level offensive value no matter how old he is, because of this shooting ability and because of again, it's just stuff that defenses can't take away. It's it's one of the most unique skill sets in basketball, and it's so so it's so unique, man, he's just Steff's the go. Man. I love watching games like this. It is such a treat. There's just something so specially like this performance. Yeah, man, there's I think it's the most exciting thing in sports. And obviously, like I'm a little bit biased, like because I like basketball. I like watching basketball more than any other sport, But I just can't think of anything that just excites me like a Steph flurry.
00:09:03
Speaker 2: Man, There's just.
00:09:04
Speaker 4: No equivalent in terms of runs right every other sport. Basically, it's just harder to put up points baseball, hockey, soccer, American football. Like basketball, is the one sport where you are getting the ball half the time and it is legitimately likely that you will score on any one of those possessions, especially when you're hot like Steph is, So you can just get seven to eight electrifying possessions in a row that doesn't exist in any other sports.
00:09:34
Speaker 2: So I agree.
00:09:36
Speaker 4: I mean, when Steph is on, those flurries are like nothing that we've ever seen in terms of just the thrill that you get as a viewer. And also then again literally just in terms of the ability to put points together in bunches, those sort of monster quarters.
00:09:52
Speaker 1: Not to mention that it just takes the life out of the other team. And I want to give Orlando credit because they had a big lead in this game Golden State, they took it, stormed, built up a big lead in the fourth quarter and I want to give credit for Orlando not just laying down and playing dead. They ended up making it pretty close again in the fourth quarter. But it's just demoralizing, man. It just takes your soul in the game. It steals your hope, where you just left with this completely empty, helpless feeling of we can't do anything, where there's no way to stop this.
00:10:23
Speaker 4: You mentioned that Steph will continue to have that elite offensive value and obviously has maintained a lead offensive value at thirty six years old, almost thirty seven now as a small guard, which is something that we've really never seen in the history of this game. The one area in which we have seen him decline some and in which we will continue to see him decline. It's not about his ability to curl around screens and be an unprecedented, unrivaled weapon there or to be a ridiculously efficient spot up shooter, the spacing, the gravity stuff off ball. Like you said, as long as he can run around, that SHOT's not going anywhere.
00:10:59
Speaker 2: It's the on ball juice.
00:11:01
Speaker 4: And that's where he took a step back last year compared to the previous season.
00:11:05
Speaker 2: And that's where he's taken another.
00:11:06
Speaker 4: Bit of a step back. This year just hasn't been as efficient it used to be. Every single year he'd be a ninety something percentile pick and roll score. This year he's at seventy second, which is good but not elite isolation. He has had a lead efficiency for a lot of the recent seasons, but this year he's only a fifty second percentile isolation scores. It's just a little bit of that regression athletically. Like you said, he very very rarely gets to the rim now, which was also the case last year. But he also gets to the line noticeably less than he did even just a couple of years ago. Those are the areas that lead to the sort of inconsistency that we have seen from Steph, where there are certain games where he just can't himself on ball with that much volume.
00:11:54
Speaker 1: I will say, I really like some of the five out lineups that the Warriors are running that open up them hate for him to drive into though, like the lineup last night we saw with Quinton post Like, and I've really loved the juice that he's given this team, oh yeah, recently, but it just it helps the offense so much and it's so hard to cover when you've got all that space. I really like that Golden States leaned into that. I think it's a real weapon that they can employ and it it just makes everything easier for the entirety of the offense.
00:12:23
Speaker 4: As a team. They are just at their best when they're five out. I love the small ball stuff. But also Post has been so productive. He's putting up twenty points, nine rebounds, four assists on sixty four percent true shooting per thirty six minutes. Like he just gets in there and sprays can really shoot the.
00:12:40
Speaker 2: Shit out of it.
00:12:41
Speaker 1: He makes really good decisions too, like he doesn't try to ever force the issue.
00:12:45
Speaker 4: No really really solid offensive basketball player. He was an absolute find for them, and Pods has been really good. I mean, they're so quick defensively when they do go small. Jimmy and Dre are so good as your defensive front court and those looks, and then they have so much space, they have so much play making so much IQ Like there's no question the Dubs are hitting their stride and they're really really good. And Steph is amazing. I'm just answering the question that we posed, which is is he a top three offensive player on the planet. I can't say that. I am going to say number four as well, like you, I think Joka just clearly won. I think that Luca, like you said, he's slumping, and he's really slumping right now. But obviously weird circumstances and we just know the level he's at as a score and playmaker, one of the best pick and role players we've ever seen, walking mismatch all time passer. He's number two, and then I do think that you have to go with Shay as your number three. What I love about Steph is the off ball stuff, how many different players will thrive and be their best alongside Steph Curry, because it's basically any player in NBA history, Like, the impact is incredible, certainly more so than the production or even the efficiency this year his raw efficiency would indicate, but it's just inconsistency, and it's the regression in terms of on ball juice. Like, there have been a number of games this year where Steph gives you under fifteen points. There have been ten of them, so basically one in every five games Steph is giving you fifteen points or fewer. And there's been a couple of just disasters. Right the Indiana game where he goes two of thirteen right after the Memphis game where he went oh of seven and had two points, and there were people who were saying he was washed and he wasn't a superstar then, and all of that was definitely not true, and he was in very difficult offensive circumstances. And he looks better with Jimmy, and I think he'll continue to look better with Jimmy. But there is a floor there that is significantly lower than what you're getting from these other guys, especially SGA, who is like an absolute floor god and is one of the greatest scorers we've ever seen. The production, I mean, over thirty two points per game on sixty four percent through shooting, incredibly dominant on ball, best guard in the league at getting to and finishing around the rim, best mid range guard in the league. And now he's a legitimately damn good pull up three point shooter with more volume. He's getting to that place where you look at the last game that the Thunder played and he's getting trapped forty feet out every possession down like they just don't want to let him make a decision, They don't want to let him work one on one. You saw a similar thing, not to that same extreme degree that the Nets did it, but in the second Timberwolves game where they're just trapping Sja over and over.
00:15:22
Speaker 2: Down the stretch.
00:15:23
Speaker 4: That's a testament to what he's doing offensively. That's something that we haven't seen since like James Harden circa twenty twenty, where it's just we are trapping him the second that he passes half court. So I'm gonna take that, dude.
00:15:36
Speaker 2: That scoring.
00:15:36
Speaker 4: The playmaking I think is underrated and has progressed. He just gets wherever he wants on the floor and is an unbelievable shot maker, gets what he wants in terms of the easy stuff, and then also just will destroy you from the mid range and as a pull up shooter. And like I said, he's improving the Thunder offense by twelve and a half points fo one hundre possessions and they're an elle lead offense when he's on the floor, and they're a disaster when he's off the floor. So it's no bad thing to be the fourth best offensive player on the planet at thirty sixty years old. And that's where I think Steph nestles in and I do think that he's still.
00:16:08
Speaker 2: A top ten player.
00:16:09
Speaker 4: We were talking about this the other day. We both had him in our top ten, but I think he's there. The offense is just still so transformative.
00:16:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's obviously an inherent volatility like you were mentioning, but there's also like such a high ceiling for Steph in any given game. Again, it wasn't that long ago that against the Kings in a playoffs series he gave you sixty. I mean, like, Steph can still do that. He's a very bad He's.
00:16:33
Speaker 4: Fifty, but give him a little juice, No, give them a little bars. It felt like sixty that game was unreal.
00:16:39
Speaker 1: He's still a very bad bad man, and he is. Like I said, man, there's a there's an unquantifiable hope factor that I really like with Golden State right now, where they they believe. This team really believes that they're on the cusper on the precipice of doing potentially something special. They've got a lot more juice now that I didn't see it before this move.
00:17:01
Speaker 4: Well, and they should have belief. I mean they do have Jews. Their talent just got a lot better. But the offense has been phenomenal. They're fourth and offensive rating since they traded for Jimmy. Since he debuted with the team, they're second in defensive rating. Man Like, I just love what Steve Kerr has done, Like I said in previous episodes, never playing Jimmy Andre alongside a non shooting center, and they're going smaller going with post I love that the starting five has been Steph, POD's, Moody, Jimmy Dre. Those are the five right guys. Pods has been playing super well. That just gives you the right blend of defense, athleticism, shooting like they're really good. This team can legitimately win a playoff series.
00:17:42
Speaker 1: I think so too. And real quick, before we move on, you mentioned Steve Kerr. I just wanted to give him an extra shout out. So many of these Steph points are coming off of actions that the Warriors are running as a team unit. And the one that blew my mind is I think it was in the third or I think it was in the third quarter. They're running that action in the middle of the core and the two Magic defenders get so confused that two of them run to the left wing and they leave Steph wide open for a right I think he actually missed that three pointer. But it's just like this, this offense is so well designed. There's a lot of talent here, but I think Steve deserves some credit too, Like there were so many great plays and great actions that this team employs. I'm I'm really excited about the Warriors, man.
00:18:24
Speaker 4: And having another dude with the feel and the IQ and the passing ability and the off ball instincts of a Jimmy Butler just makes all of the organized offense that much more effective. Like he has been a dream fit in this motion system. He is so good at that sort of read and react basketball and executing designed actions, and like I said, he's a stud. Defensively, the Warriors are forcing nineteen point six turnovers per game since he joined the team. That is the best number in basketball in that stretch by a good bit. Like they're doing exactly what small ball defenses need to do to succeed their applying ball pressure. They're flying round and offensively, they just have so much space now.
00:19:04
Speaker 2: It's really really fun man.
00:19:05
Speaker 4: And Jimmy has had a couple of very quiet scoring games back to back now, but he just hasn't been very aggressive the entire time that he's been with the Warriors.
00:19:14
Speaker 2: He hasn't been aggressed this whole season.
00:19:15
Speaker 1: I think was gonna say, Man, I think Jimmy's biden his time waiting for the playoffs. He's gonna get about that hyperbaric chamber.
00:19:23
Speaker 4: And I mean his efficiency on ball this year has been absurd and everything outside of that, which to me is more significant when you're judging the fit, has been an a plus since he joined the Warriors. I'm really really excited about this team. It's just so meaningful man to be able to put a team around Steph that he can believe in that can get him excited. It's not about winning the title every year. Sometimes that's not possible. It's about doing justice to best player in your franchise history. And like right now they'd be the seventh seed, they'd be facing the two seed Memphis. Like, that's not a mismatch, Bro, that is not a mismatch. They can win that series. So that's exciting. Another team, Logan that made a move at the deadline, and I think is feeling pretty good about how they've been playing.
00:20:10
Speaker 2: As of late. The Milwaukee Bucks.
00:20:12
Speaker 4: They've won five of six and they just got a big National TV win over Denver. How much of a playoff threat are they with their new look roster?
00:20:24
Speaker 1: So I mentioned this on last show. I definitely prefer Milwaukee to the Knicks. I would have the Bucks three ahead of New York, behind Boston, behind Cleveland, and they are looking really good post Kuzma trade. They're twenty second in offensive rating, but their fifth and defensive rating and eleventh in net rating. The one thing that concerns me in all the matchups against these other top three teams that I mentioned that aren't Milwaukee, Boston, Cleveland, and New York, they're own three versus Boston, they're own three versus Cleveland, and they're own two versus the Knicks. But that is all prior to the Chris Middleton trade, so we haven't seen this team with Kuzma injected in here against these looks. I just have some really glaring concerns about Milwaukee when it comes up against these top contenders. One I think my biggest first concern is generating high quality open looks and especially against and I know they beat Denver, but watching back like that Houston game against a really good defense like them, they really struggled to get any like easy offense. It's a lot of really contested threes. It's there's just not there's not a lot of easy offense for Milwaukee, and that's what scares me. And when I think about them against So what I mean by that is it's more important for this team to get stops. It's so important first that they win defensively and then win and transition and get offense off of their defense. I think that's how this Milwaukee team has to win. So why am I worried about that? One? I worry about this backcourt in them rebounding. This is not a really good rebounding team outside of the Big Boys, and they're gonna they should get Bobby Ports back hopefully, But that's a concern of mine. And then the other concern of mine is just how they match up against some of these elite teams. Still Boston spreading them out five out, it's gonna be really trouble troublesome. I think for Brook Lopez defending in space and all that area in the interior for Boston to go to work, They're just a hardcover in general, Cleveland, I worry about them with these two dynamic guards. I know that they've figured out the rotations a little bit more. They have better personnel than they did before to defend Cleveland. I still worry about them defending Garland and defending Donovan Mitchell, And honestly, I think the Cleveland has a good answer, as good of an answer as you can have for Giannis on the other side of the ball with an Evan Mobley and with a Jared Allen. And then when I look at New York, kind of similar issues to Boston, where they're gonna be really spread out and they're gonna have to defend a lot of space. I don't know, man, I think Milwaukee could get to like a Fluke Eastern Conference It's finals run maybe if Jannis and Dame really boss up. Because that's the strength of this team. I don't want to undersell that aspect. That is why I like Milwaukee more than New York. They've got Dame, they've got Giannison, They've got a defense I like more than New York. There's just a lot of glaring flaws with this team. Man. They're slow, they're unathletic, they don't have a ton of great defenders down this roster. But my real concern right now at least recently, is them generating high quality open looks. And I don't know, man, I I could see Milwaukee making some noise, but to me, it feels like they're gonna be a second round exit.
00:23:34
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's no shame in being a second round exit in an East that has the Celtics and the Calves, who are two incredible basketball teams. But I don't see Milwaukee posing an actual threat to either one of those teams. I do want to talk about where I think cous has helped them, because I think there were a lot of people who were flat out trying to say that Coos.
00:23:56
Speaker 2: Was bad when that trade was made.
00:23:58
Speaker 4: I didn't like the trade, but I saw the things that they were prioritizing, and I said, those aren't bad things to prioritize. And I was also optimistic that Kus would look better in a new situation. I just think Chris Middleton is really good when he was healthy, and I do think that there's still a big difference between him and Kus because the offensive gap is absolutely massive. But there were a lot of people acting like Kyle Kuzma in Washington. This absolute laughing stock is going to be equivalent to Kyle Kuzman a serious situation, which is kind of crazy just because, like we've seen him really buy in and do the role player stuff before. We've seen him be a big positive in Los Angeles in a title run, and he's back to doing that stuff.
00:24:38
Speaker 1: Man.
00:24:38
Speaker 4: I mean, defensively, he has been so good. And we have talked for a long time about how they do lack plus athletes around Brooke and Giannis. They do lack another, like really good rebounding forward. They have lacked some of those plus bigger wing defenders, and so they got more athletic, they got bigger, they got longer, they got a guy who can rea and he's buying into doing all of that stuff. Kho's is defending his ass off in a mold that they needed. And honestly, their defensive front court now is up there for the best in basketball. The combination of rim protection with Brooke and Yannis, and then you have the rebounding that all these guys provide, you have the perimeter defense that you get from COO's. It's really really awesome what they can do defensively now. And this is the role that Ko's is best suited for. I mean, he's just too limited offensively to be like the sort of lead guy eating up your volume on a really bad.
00:25:34
Speaker 2: But I mean when you can, Washington.
00:25:36
Speaker 1: When you can create him an advantage and let him attack closeouts and stuff like that, I mean, it's a it's a it's a really good role for him.
00:25:43
Speaker 2: Really good role.
00:25:44
Speaker 4: His offense has still been rough though, and I think he's shooting about twenty five percent in second halves in Milwaukee. The shot has just been killer for him all year. He's twenty eight percent from three in Milwaukee, like he was in Washington.
00:25:58
Speaker 2: I would hope and expect.
00:25:59
Speaker 4: That gets up closer to like thirty two to thirty three percent where he's normally been, which is still a bad number, but he's not a catastrophic number.
00:26:07
Speaker 1: And he's sixty three percent from the line this year.
00:26:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, shot is just not there.
00:26:13
Speaker 4: So he's given you fifteen points per game on fifty percent true shooting. That's really the concern because he's a good, versatile basketball player and people will look at him offensively and like you said, he can attack a close out.
00:26:23
Speaker 2: He's a good athlete. He's got a bag.
00:26:25
Speaker 4: It's just the bag doesn't lead to good shots for him, and right now, he's not able to do the simple stuff in terms of just knocking down catch and shoot threes that they desperately need him too. So their offense has suffered. Like you said, they're twenty second in offensive rating since.
00:26:41
Speaker 2: They traded for Coups.
00:26:43
Speaker 4: They lose a lot of creation and a lot of shot making going from Middleton to Coup's playmaking, I mean Middleton for them last couple of playoffs was like I think a twenty four to nine to six guy on fifty eight percent true shooting, like he can be a flat out offensively in a playoff series, and they've really lost that punch now, so so much is on Damon Giannis offensively, and like this team in totality can shoot because they have some dudes who are just absolutely knocked down AJ Green, Torrian Prince, Gary Trent, Like those guys are phenomenal shooters. But then you're also gonna have to play some guys who are very very questionable shooters, like Kuzma. They're always trying to strike the balance between what they're prioritizing in their role players. If it's getting Andre Jackson Junior out there because he's awesome defensively, but then he's super limited offensively and as a shooter. If it's getting a more offensively slanted guy like a Gary Trent Junior or Torrian Prince out there who aren't as good defensively, like, that's the battle that they're fighting. And all year this team has just been an average offense. They're fifteenth in offensive raiding. They just really don't have a lot of talent alongside Damon Giannis when we're comparing them to these top end teams. They're also twenty ninth in clutch offensive rating and that is not a good indicator when it comes to grinding out some of these tough playoff wins.
00:28:10
Speaker 2: And an interesting way to think about it.
00:28:13
Speaker 4: Shout out to our friend Tyler from hoop Venue because he tweeted out yesterday, I think his top four top fours in the NBA, that meaning the four teams that have the best top four players on their rosters, and it was Cleveland, OKC, Boston, and Denver, and I think he said that those top fours were relatively close and that it may end up being that the key difference this year is what do you get from your five through eight, And there there is a massive gap between an OKC, a Cleveland, even a Boston compared to a Denver. I also think that if you look at the second best players on those teams, Denver's last. If you look at the third best player on those teams, Denvers last, that's a story for another time. But Milwaukee, it's like, if you compare them to Cleveland or Boston or Okay, see, there is a huge gap between their top four because those are teams who are getting like legitimate star production from their third guy. I think Boston's third best player is Jalen Brown. I think the Thunder's third best player is Jalen Williams.
00:29:20
Speaker 2: I think that the Cavs.
00:29:21
Speaker 4: Third best player is Darius Garland, who's played at like an all NBA level last year. Right, those are stars. And then you look at the Bucks and it's like Brook Lopez and then their fourth best guy is Kyle Kuzma, and you're comparing that to Derek White or Jared Allen or whoever you think the Thunder's fourth best guy is, Like, there's just a big difference there. And then the real problem is you look at the next four, the five through eight, and there's an even bigger gap there. Because at least you have Damon Giannis. The depth of this roster just does not compare to the elite teams, like I think that that gets underrated some with the truly elite teams that we've seen this regular season. But you look at the Thunder and they have Aaron Wiggins, and they have lou Dord, and they have Cason Wallace, and they have Isaiah Joe and they have Alice Caruso.
00:30:13
Speaker 2: It's just ridiculous. You look at the Calves.
00:30:16
Speaker 4: And they have DeAndre Hunter, and they have Ty Jerome, and they have Max Strus and.
00:30:20
Speaker 2: They have Dean Wade. Just so many good basketball players.
00:30:25
Speaker 4: Obviously the Celtics, right their fifth best player is Drew Holliday, and then they have Al Horford and they have same Houserd, they have Peyton Pritchard who's been a stud. Milwaukee just doesn't have that sort of contributions from their role players, and that's what it comes down to. It's never been about Damon Giannis and what they can do. It's been about the totality of the talent on this roster. They've done a really good job, I think, making the most out of what they've had this season. I've been so impressed by the level that they've reached defensively, I still can't view them as a true threat to knock off these uber talented, super complete teams. They just have a lot more off defensive juice in total.
00:31:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exactly where I come down with them, and in a way, I am a little bit worried right about them versus New York. For that reason, it's very close between Milwaukee and New York, and my marginal preference to their defense is why I ultimately side with Milwaukee. But I could very well see Brunson and Kat just taking over in mcal Bridges, who Mcowbridge has just been consistently disrespected this NBA season, where I feel like, I mean, he brings me some pop and I just don't trust that the shooting around Milwaukee. And again it's not because I don't trust the individual shooters themselves. Princes is a good shooter. AJ Green is a phenomenal shooter. Right, These guys are good shooters, But the quality of shots that they're getting isn't great. They're not always getting wide open looks. It's a lot of movement shots off screens, it's a lot of contested threes, where in a playoff series that could be the variable that either gets you to the next round or sends you home. And I don't like banking on that. I just don't think the offense is good enough. I think it's a little bit too flawed for me to bank on them doing real damage in these playoffs.
00:32:07
Speaker 4: I agree one little thing you did mention the rebounding. I do think a lot of that is just a product of the fact that Milwaukee really.
00:32:14
Speaker 2: Does not crash the offensive glass.
00:32:16
Speaker 4: Because they're a really, really good defensive rebounding team, and I think they're dead last and offensive.
00:32:20
Speaker 1: They're also great. It makes sense too, because I mean, Brook Lopez is primarily on the outside right. If you had an interior oriented big man, he's just not near the rim as much.
00:32:30
Speaker 4: Brook also just doesn't actually grab rebounds. He just eats up bodies with box outs, and he's been averaging like five to six rebounds a game for many years now. But he is a more impactful rebounder than that would suggest real quick. Just on the Denver side of this game, I've been a real optimist about the Nuggets throughout this year. I've done a lot of defending the Nuggets and considering the fact that a lot of people were in full on Skyes falling mode early on this year. Now they're sitting here thirty eight and twenty one in the three seed. They've done okay, but at some point in a big game against a really good team, you gotta show me something defensively. Like I can sit here and say, oh, the offense is elite, and Jokic is the best player in the world, and Jamal has rounded into form, and Christian Brown has been really impressive, and Russ has been a really good fit, and all of those things can be true about the offense, and I can say, well, we've seen them defend at a solid level, a good level before in the playoffs with a similar construction, But night after night they're just unserious on that end this season. And like I do think that they can lock in more. I am going to continue to believe that, but it's pretty frustrating watching them play against really good teams and just not execute as well as they need to to win those games, especially defensively.
00:33:54
Speaker 1: Tell me what you think. I think Denver's one of those teams where if their shots aren't falling offensively, they kind of have this tendency to put their head down and not try as hard.
00:34:02
Speaker 4: Well, part of it is just transition, bro, They're just a bad transition defense. But I agree, I think that there has been a lot of that this season.
00:34:09
Speaker 1: Well I'm thinking about back to even last season, like against Minnesota, when they couldn't get anything going and this team just puts their head down. It gets dogged like it's not a.
00:34:18
Speaker 2: Well I'll tell you who does that. Jamal Murray does that.
00:34:21
Speaker 1: Yes, for sure, it's in Sometimes it's other guys. Jamal for sure, Jamal does that a lot.
00:34:26
Speaker 4: Where Jamal also, I think, just got demoralized in a way that few players have.
00:34:30
Speaker 2: In a long time last year by that Wolves defense.
00:34:32
Speaker 4: But he is a guy who's wired that way, and like Jokic, isn't always a super high effort player, specially defensively, Like it can be very night tonight with him MPJ, it can be night tonight. So that's kind of just the reality with this team. But I've had them as my number four contender. There's a big gap between the top three in them. I thought that they could maybe close the gap on Cleveland. Cleveland is awesome. Cleveland is so damn good, and they play Boston tonight. I'm really excited for that, very excited. That should be a really fun game. Last time we talked, I said I felt like Cleveland had like a twenty percent chance of beating Boston in a seven game series. That feels a little low to me. I think it's probably more.
00:35:15
Speaker 2: Like wow, thirty. Okay.
00:35:18
Speaker 4: Their offense is just unbelievable. Evan Mobley is a top fifteen player and we all know it now they have DeAndre Hunter. I still think that Boston is better because same thing as I've always said, that defense is just more solid, it's more bulletproof, and that's a meaningful difference here. They can attack Cleveland's defensive vulnerabilities and there are no defensive vulnerabilities for Cleveland to attack. But the Cavs are forty eight and ten man and their top four really is excellent. So I still think that Boston is better, and I still think that Boston is clearly better for a seven game series. But Cleveland is unbelievable and I'm very much looking forward to that game. Let's go elsewhere in the Central Division, Logan, because the hottest team it's not the Bucks Actually, the Cavs have won as many straight games as this team has, but the Pistons have also one eight straight logan here. They are now one year removed from a fourteen win season. They are thirty three and twenty six and comfortably in the sixth seed, five games above the play in range.
00:36:23
Speaker 2: Can this team win a playoff series?
00:36:27
Speaker 1: I think they can. I think some things have to go their way the way the dominoes fall, but it is possible. Over their last ten games, their number two in net rating, they're number four in offensive rating, and they're number three in defensive rating. I don't want to be a Debbie downer here. I will mention that it's Philadelphia, it's Charlotte without LaMelo in Chicago twice, it's San Antonio no mb But then it's a.
00:36:55
Speaker 2: Lane Clippers and the Celtics.
00:36:57
Speaker 1: I mean it's Clippers no Kawhi, no Norman, and Boston no Jalen Brown. But they are legitimate wins. They are legitimate Celtics.
00:37:03
Speaker 4: You take away any one of them. Yeah, and it's still impressive.
00:37:07
Speaker 1: It's still and they've still a damn near All Star team. Yeah they did. Tatum got his shout out, but they did get them, and there's a lot of guys that have been bawling during the stretch. Kate Cunningham, we can't sing his praises enough. Man, it's been I'm just so happy for the guy that he has confident basketball players around him. I mean, finally, he's given you twenty eight, six and ten over the last ten games on forty seven thirty eight, ninety four splits. He's actually got a lower turnover number over these last ten games. And on the season, Beasley's been shooting the hell out of the ball. Tobias Harris has been playing awesome basketball. Jaylen Duran, I think has taken a little bit of a leap this season and is playing better. And Asar Thompson is a defensive monster. You gotta give credit to the identity change for this team because you mentioned it, Carson. They hit thirty one wins over the last two seasons combined. I've got thirty three this year. I mean, and this is the natural progression that we see from these young teams that go from complete bottom feeders to in the hunt. And that's the hardest leap, in my opinion, to make. It's very hard to go from in the hunt to real contender. That is a very very hard jump to make. But it's very hard to go from the Dredges to hey, we're competitive, and they've done that. And I'm gonna tip my cap to the young players and also Bickerstaff for coming in here and handling business. This is a strong defensive team with an offensive star. I like that formula, and more importantly, the thing that I thought about in this Boston game, this Detroit team is a team that's gonna make you pay for your mistakes. You could walk in Las a days ago, over the last couple of seasons, not play your best game, and guess what you were gonna walk away with a win against the Detroit Pistons. It almost didn't matter what you did. You could screw up, you could have a bad shooting night, you could be turning the ball over all game long. This team's gonna make you pay, and they're also gonna make you work, like the way they were forcing turnovers on Boston. The collective defense, How connected this team is. That's what I really like. Man. It's a team that's committed, that's playing hard on that end, winning defensively and then going to work offensively, and so how do they win a playoff series. I think it's a very very specific formula. But if they can get the four of the five seed and they can draw Indiana in the first round, I think i'd take Detroit. I think I take defense. I think so I like this defense enough. Man, I think they can be disruptive, but I'd confidently take the field. I think with any other matchup, if they're taking on any of those big dogs, I think Detroit would get dogged. But if they can draw Indiana and hold on to the four or five seed, I think Detroit's got a real chance at winning a playoff series.
00:39:46
Speaker 4: I definitely think that Indiana is the path to them winning a playoff series. Realistically, they're not going to be in the play in which is the good news. They won't have to face either of the absolute juggernauts. I still think that the Knicks and the Bucks just at a serious talent advantage. The Knicks with the totality of their offense. In the Bucks just with the overwhelming Dame and Giannis Combo and then having a good team defense, that's too much for this piss and seem to overcome. But Indiana, although I think that they have gotten underrated, and interestingly, Logan very interestingly, when Hallie is struggling, it's all that anybody talks about. When the Pacers are struggling, it's all that anybody talks about. And then they just have several months of really good basketball team and they're the four seed in their nine games above five hundred, and Hallie's been quite good and has been playing like a star, and nobody talks about.
00:40:37
Speaker 1: I don't really know why people hate Tyrol. I love Tyres Whims.
00:40:41
Speaker 2: I think he gets around too much.
00:40:42
Speaker 1: I think he's got a heart of gold. I think he's got a great positive attitude, and I think he plays fundamentally unselfish basketball. I mean, maybe he's got a couple goofy outfits. I don't know, man. I like Tyrese Haliburton a lot.
00:40:55
Speaker 4: I like Callie a lot, and I think that he plays a beautiful brand of basketball and he's been playing well.
00:41:00
Speaker 2: Like I said, so, I would.
00:41:02
Speaker 4: Take Indiana in that series because I think that their offense is a lead.
00:41:08
Speaker 2: I think that it's just as.
00:41:10
Speaker 4: Good as the offense that we saw last year. Their ability to push pace extremely effectively, the totality of the offensive skill they have on the floor. The Halle and Siakham duo is super good. You have a number of guys who can step up as playmakers.
00:41:23
Speaker 2: TJ.
00:41:24
Speaker 4: McConnell, of course, Andrew Nemhard Neie Smith has gotten back and healthy to be a solid two way contributor for you. Miles Turner is just one of the better offensive centers in basketball. The offense is great. The defense is not good. The defense is never gonna be good. It's gotten better as the year has gone along, but it's a below average defense. I just prefer that sort of offensive formula that I know is gonna be reliably really good to what Detroit is doing right now, where they're grinding out games with defensive effort, but they don't have the highest defensive ceiling, and then offensively there's so much on cage shoulders.
00:42:04
Speaker 2: I think they could win this series.
00:42:05
Speaker 1: They could muck that series up, man, I think they can.
00:42:08
Speaker 4: Here's how I think you muck the series up. I think you put a sar on Hallie and you see how much hell he can give him. Because when they've matched up this year, it's mostly just been like Beasley and thhj on Halle, but Asar has been playing better, He's been playing his best basketball as of laid and like that's the archetype that I think can give Halle the most trouble, those super athletics, super long psycho wings, Like look at what Toumani Kamara did to him a few weeks ago, where hell he didn't score in that game. Like, if you can just limit his volume, if you can deny him the ball, Like Halle, he's a great offensive player, he's not the most agressive offensive player, and he's not somebody who is going to necessarily create a ton of advantages versus those sort of elite athletes who can really pester him. So that would be really interesting. I think that would be the matchup to watch that would basically define the series. But the reason that I say, although I think Detroit is a good defense, they don't really have the ability to be an elite defense. A SAR is like their only awesome defender in the starting lineup. Isaiah Stewart is a really good defender as well, but Duran good offensive player, really good rebounder, still not a good defensive center, still not a good rim protector, still not a good drop defender. So that puts a ceiling on what you can be. And like, what I like about their defense is everybody's engaged. They don't have any small dudes on the floor really ever. Kate is a super big point guard, and then you've got THHJ out there who has solid size, or even Malik Beasley has solid size. Like there's a lot of collective length.
00:43:44
Speaker 2: But again, I don't see enough of those really high end defenders.
00:43:48
Speaker 4: The rim protection isn't enough for me to think like this is a defense that you are going to ride to win a playoff series. Like I think they can defend very well. That can be a big part of it, but then they still need to produce a good bit offensively and they're just an okay offense. Caid has been incredible without Jaye n Ivy. They're eighteen and ten when Caid plays without Ivy, and he's averaging twenty eight six and ten on fifty seven percent throuugh shooting. That's ridiculous. Tobias Harris has been hoopin' as of late in the wind streak nineteen points per game on seventy percent true shooting. Just having a good play finisher like that, who can get himself a bucket in a spot who can knock down, catch and shoot jumpers valuable, and I think the totality of their shooting is underrated. Like Malike Beasley is one of the best three point shooters in basketball, and he has been for a while. And like not just Stan still spot ups off movement, off screens, He's ridiculous.
00:44:45
Speaker 2: He's second in the NBA in three.
00:44:47
Speaker 4: Pointers made and he's knocking down forty two and a half percent of them. He broke the Piston single season three pointers record like a couple weeks ago. I think he did it before the All Star breaks. So he's an incredible shooter. THHJ can spray threes at over thirty seven percent, So like, I think that they have a very respectable offensive situation. It's just we're talking about winning playoff series. And if it does come down to a playoff series, I think that teams are going to be hyper aggressive with CADE. I think that they are going to really challenge other guys to beat you with both a Sar and Duran, two non shooters on the floor. And Asar is a good playmaker and I think that he can be solid with four on threes, but that's not a great offensive situation to be in in my opinion, and again, I don't think the defense is good enough for that to be like a complete weapon in a playoff series. I do want to say Asar was awesome on Jason Tatum. I think he forced like turnovers on three straight possessions against him in the first quarter.
00:45:55
Speaker 2: His ability to.
00:45:56
Speaker 4: Pick pockets is crazy. He absolutely could be all defensive. He play enough games in the.
00:46:01
Speaker 1: Pick and roll two. He's really disruptive. Man, He's just he's enough.
00:46:03
Speaker 2: Monster.
00:46:04
Speaker 1: Him and him and a man are so fucking smart.
00:46:06
Speaker 2: Dude, He's a monster.
00:46:08
Speaker 4: It just comes down to the lack of high end skill alongside k the lack of creators. They have some really good shooters, they also have some non shooters who are playing big minutes, like you're just a team with the ceiling. But if they get Indiana, they have a chance in that series. I do think that they have a chance.
00:46:38
Speaker 2: Who's scoring big in the NBA this season? You are with all the new.
00:46:42
Speaker 4: Ways to get in on the action at DraftKings Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NBA. From monster slams to dishing the rock to cleaning the glass, get behind your favorite players and the prop bets you can make on DraftKings, the home of NBA player.
00:47:00
Speaker 1: Ready to place your first bet, Try betting on something simple like picking how many points your favorite player will have. Go to the Draftking sports Book app and make your pick. First timers, here's something special just for you New Draftking customers. Bet five dollars to get one hundred and fifty dollars in bonus bets.
00:47:16
Speaker 4: Instantly take it to the rack with DraftKings sports Book, Every point counts. Download the DraftKings Sportsbook app and use code nerds. That's code nerds for new customers to get one hundred and fifty dollars in bonus bets when you bet just five bucks only on DraftKings.
00:47:33
Speaker 2: The Crown is yours.
00:47:35
Speaker 3: Gambling problem called one eight hundred gambler in New York called eight seven seven eight hope and Why or text hope and why four six seven, three six nine. In Connecticut, help is available for a problem gambling called eight eight eight seven eight nine seven seven seven seven or visit CCPG dot org. Please play responsibly on behalf of Boothill Casino when resorting Kansas twenty one on over agent eligibility varies by jurisdiction, Void and Ontario. Bonus bets expire one hundred and sixty eight hours after ISSUEENS four. Editions and responsible gaming resources see dkang dot Co, slash audio.
00:48:12
Speaker 4: And also, like you were talking about, it's just incredible that we're having these conversations about Detroit right now considering where they were at last year, Like that is a huge win. I went back and rewatched the video that I made about Cade last year when people were ragging on him and I defended him. I was very happy with what I said, both about Caid long term and about the Pistons not being out on the Pistons, Like, yeah, it was brutal last year, but there were always signs of talent and opportunity for improvement.
00:48:41
Speaker 2: Shout out JB.
00:48:41
Speaker 4: Bickerstaff because he's really done a great job with this team, and them doing this without Ivy for half the year is also really impressive. I mean, they've played their best basketball without him. And of course shout out to Caid, who may end up being an All NBA player this year, like he's in those conversations at the very least. It's phenomenal. Congratulations Detroit fans. I don't want to be negative, but this is the standard that you're hell to.
00:49:06
Speaker 1: Now.
00:49:06
Speaker 2: This is what happens. You win a lot of games and the bar moves.
00:49:09
Speaker 1: So congratulations, Hey we can have shitting Detroit now, Carson.
00:49:13
Speaker 4: Bro this is what I'm saying. The Lions ended up not going down. How you wanted a little bit of a Jared Goof moment, But hell of a season. It's not every year you win fifteen games and now you got the Pistons trending upwards. Man, shout out to Detroit. Shout out, hive mind logan. I just want to shout out some dudes right now. I just want to shout out some dudes who haven't gotten enough attention because I made a video a few days ago about the top five most underrated stars, because I've been mapping out, like my top twenty five NBA players, and there were a handful of guys in there who I think maybe not everybody would have them here.
00:49:54
Speaker 2: These guys don't get talked about enough.
00:49:56
Speaker 4: And basically it was the usual guys who I glaze my dogs. But that got me thinking, let's take the stars out of it. Let's just talk about the most underrated non stars, so truly the most underrated players. Who do you think that guy or those guys have been this year.
00:50:16
Speaker 1: I've got a few names written down. One of them we just talked about. I just want to give him an additional shout out. Tobias Harris. He's twenty third in plus minus right now across the entire league. And I mean the majority of that list is like the you know, the obvious cant It's a lot of Boston players, it's a lot of Cleveland players, it's a lot of Oklahoma City players, a lot of Knicks players as well, And then Tobias Harris is on that list. He deserves a shout out. I just think because of how low people were on him after I mean, in a pretty atrocious year in Philadelphia. Or ask him, what does this guy even do well? It turns out you give him some responsibility, you let him do his thing, he can actually give you some good NBA minutes. The biggest guy I think it sticks out to me was a guy we were talking about we were shooting tiktoks the other day. I think it's big zoo man. I still don't know if people appreciate just how good of eatsa zubats Is. He has the twelfth highest true shooting percentage of any fifteen point per game score. He's nineteenth in plus minus in the NBA this year. He's a really good rim protector. He is a mammoth of a human being. He's a really good rebounder, and he's a phenomenal mismatch attacker on the offensive, and he's got great touch. Like I just think that Zoo is one of the most complete centers in basketball, and I may prefer him to even some of the maybe more high profile centers in the league. You know that have more name value.
00:51:39
Speaker 4: Like Opern Shngoon Logan, Did you say that today?
00:51:44
Speaker 1: I didn't they would rather have because.
00:51:46
Speaker 2: I was also thinking Zoo would be my answer.
00:51:50
Speaker 1: I don't even I'm not trying to be mean. I don't really think that one's particularly close for me.
00:51:56
Speaker 2: NBA All Star Opron Shngoon, I.
00:52:00
Speaker 1: Would take big Zoo is a problem.
00:52:02
Speaker 4: I would take Zoo man. I think that you hit the nail on the head, like there are certain traits that I just want from my big man if I am trying to build a contending team, because I think that there's a case that if you want somebody who can just raise your floor by being more of a post hub eating up more offensive volume, you're not a very talented good team, then you could want Shnggun And that's fine. But I'm always gonna view these questions through the lens of I'm trying to build a damn good team. Who do I want as my center? Who do I want on my roster? And Zoo does so many of those super valuable things. He's a damn good rim protector, holds opposing players ten percent below their average field goal percentage at the rim. He's just a better overall defender than Shehngguon. I mean, he's a significantly better rim protector, rebounder, and he's really been solid guarding in space this year. Shanguon has gotten better defensively, He's been very solid there. Zoo is just better then offensively. What do I want you to do well? I want you to rebound really well. He's an offensive rebounding monster. I want you to be very efficient. I want you to be a great play finisher out of pick and roll. Zoo is that he's an excellent finisher around the rim, super efficient, And then he also has as you said unbelievable touch, and I would like to have a guy who can bully and bruise you out of the post. I want a guy who can attack mismatches. I want a guy who is strong and huge for that playoff environment. Zoo shoots fifty eight percent on hook shots, man, and he takes more hooks than anybody else in the league. Like it is just an absurd weapon that he has with his touch, really only surpassed by Jolkic among centers. Shout out Jared Allen because he's working his way into those conversations as well. But Zoo's touch is unbelievable. So I just get this total combination of great post up, big, super efficient finisher, elite rebounder on both ends, really good defender, excellent rim protector, and a solid passer. Guy gives me fifteen twelve and a half and two and a half on over sixty two percent true shooting.
00:54:04
Speaker 2: That's what I want.
00:54:05
Speaker 1: That's what I want.
00:54:07
Speaker 4: Sheng Goon, He's just not been a good enough offensive player for me to justify taking him over a guy like Zoo who is going to do his various jobs on both ends at such an extremely high level. The efficiency with Shengun has just been brutal.
00:54:23
Speaker 2: I look this up today.
00:54:25
Speaker 4: In the twenty twenties, there have been seventy four seasons by a center in which they scored fifteen plus points per game. Shengon ranks seventy third of seventy four in both effective field goal percentage and true shooting percentage. It's rough, man, the touch is not there, the jumper hasn't developed at all, and Zoo can just physically assert himself more.
00:54:47
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, long, long term, I can see Sengoon being better than Big Zoo because there's a lot to work with there. That's why I mean. And you liked him as a prospect, right he had phenomenal footwork, he saw the flashes of it, really high guy on the low block. Yeah, like, there's a lot to like a bet Sengoon. But I think right now, Big Zoo's just more developed. And the bigger thing to me with Zoo is in the playoffs, you got to have a guy that connects him out like he is a problem when we're talking about matchups. If you don't have a mammoth sized, strong ass, dude, I'm sorry, Zoo is serving you buckets. Every single game in that series, and he's just gonna kill you. And honestly, the Clippers as a whole, I think kind of have this underrated collective of a lot of really good defenders and two high level offensive players. Another guy that I wrote down on here is Norman Powell. I mean, Powell has the ninth highest true shooting percentage of any fifteen point per game scorer this year, and Norman Powell just doesn't miss. So we have these stretches where he'll just knock out fifteen to twenty straight points and he hasn't missed a single shot. Like, Yeah, I think both of these Clippers are really really underrated. But if I had to single out a guy, dude, Big Zoo might be the most underrated. He might be the answer to this question. I just think he brings you such phenomenal value at that position, and there's no like glaring weaknesses to him. I guess the only thing you could say maybe is defending in space, but that's not really his job on this team.
00:56:11
Speaker 4: And he's been solid there this year. He's gotten better there. The contract with him also makes a real strong case for being the best in the league. Like he makes eleven point seven million this year, and then over the next three years he averages nineteen million a year like in today's NBA from a guy who is basically the perfect non star big. It's unbelievable. I think that he's better than Norm. I think he's more impactful because of the defensive value that you get with him, and Norm was at least getting All Star buzs. Norm has had a really, really good season, no doubt, but I do think that zoo Is.
00:56:48
Speaker 1: I think people just prefer the off I don't. Yeah, I feel like people adequately, like just appreciate defense and rebounding as much they're vitally important to winning basketball games.
00:56:59
Speaker 4: I agree, man, I think they're are a lot of underrated bigs just because, like, if you're a really impactful defensive big and you're a good offensive player, that means you're a super valuable over.
00:57:08
Speaker 1: I can't remember, I don't did you tweet that out or to one of our fans. Somebody said that, And I read that the other day where they said that they thought that was the most underappreciated archetype in basketball, and uh, I tend to agree.
00:57:20
Speaker 4: Well, I had my five most underrated stars and four of them were bigs in that archetype.
00:57:25
Speaker 1: I think that was a response. I think that was a response to to.
00:57:29
Speaker 4: That person because they cooked all of this to say, like I was expecting to say, Zoo is the most underrated player in basketball. Then I put out this poll in fifty nine percent of people said they'd rather have Zoo than Shanngoona, And like, I think I just got a lot of balloers who follow me. I don't think that's representative of like a full NBA fan sample, but I was still really surprised by that.
00:57:54
Speaker 2: Like I thought there would be.
00:57:54
Speaker 4: Some people being like, what are we doing here, as in like shannggoun is so much better because of the box score or whatever, But not the case. Man, so big Zoo is getting some love because of that. I'll shout out a few other guys. I think that there are a couple of Portland Trailblazers, super.
00:58:10
Speaker 2: Good winning wings. Denny of DIA, I think is just.
00:58:14
Speaker 4: Doing the same stuff that he did last year in Washington and like just doesn't get shined for it because the teams aren't good. Portland is obviously better. Portland's been very very competitive as of late, but he's giving you like fourteen six and four I think on fifty nine percent true shooting. He's a good driver, he gets to the line at a really good rate. He's a really good connective passer. And then he's also a good versatile defender. And then Tumani Kamara I actually think has been getting a lot of love as of late, so I can't say that he's underrated anymore. But he is just a defensive monster who's been really solid offensively this year. I think DFS would be up there, probably still is, but the fact that he's a Laker, it's hard to truly be underrated as a Laker. But we've just been raving about him. I mean, like just sub all defense level and a really good spot at the shooter he is. He is in the on off impact plus fifteen on the year, crazy, he's super good. And then Tray Murphy saveraging twenty two to five and four on sixty one percent true shooting, like really really impressive production and efficiency.
00:59:24
Speaker 2: A lot of it is.
00:59:25
Speaker 4: Still just on the back of the fact that he has got the fucking strap, but also like he's grown as a passer, He's gotten better in terms of getting downhill and getting to the line. So he's had a really, really impressive season. Those were the dudes who stood out to me. But it's interesting that we both had Zoo. I mean that probably means that he's deserved. But what if we're all going around just thinking that Zoo was underrated, but actually everybody thinks that Zoo is a stud? Because I think that might be happening because Jason texted me right after Jason tim for our friend, I tweeted it and he said I'd take Zoo, So maybe we know.
01:00:03
Speaker 1: Does I understand it now?
01:00:06
Speaker 2: I mean, there's been a Zoo revolution and I love it.
01:00:09
Speaker 1: I hope, so, man, I've I really appreciate what big Zoo does. Man, A lot of those you just there's a lot of those big, dirty work guys. Man, they don't they don't get the love they need. But we're here to show it to a year I had.
01:00:20
Speaker 4: It's always been crazy that Zoo hasn't just played more to me before this year, uh huh. Like the fact that he was always just like a twenty six minutes per game guy, get him thirty two.
01:00:29
Speaker 1: He ball was way more impactful than that. I had a couple other guys written out, a couple of foreign wings. You mentioned one Laker, h Roy Hachimura has just been playing excellent basketball this season. He just he's so good offensively. And I know you've always been a big fan, but I really think you've seen him blossom this year with more offensive talent around him. I think the elimination of D'Angelo Russell from this team, you know, him getting more touches naturally, but now the infusion of Luca has just made his job all that much easier. And I think this is an ideal role for him where he can really flourish. And then the other guy I had written down here is Santi Aldama. I just think Aldama he has so many good little things for your basketball team. High IQ guy, great positioning. It always feels like he's in the right spot or in the right uh right spot to make a play. And he's a really good decision maker, good shooter, good defender, good rebounder, can put the ball on the floor a little bit. I really like Aldama's game, and I think he's a really good role player. But yeah, I think these conversations are fun. Man. You know, a lot of the stars always take a lot of the shine man. It takes takes ten. Takes ten guys to win a basketball game. Normally playoffs a little shorter net, but they deserve some love.
01:01:39
Speaker 4: We're Nerd sash Man. We gotta get down and talk about the role guys. We're Nerd sash Of course we're gonna have a double chunk chocolate cookie. I'm gonna shot at another Memphis Grizzly because Luke Cunard is quietly on pace to lead the league and three point percentage for the third time. Bro, is he over fifty forty seven and for his career he's over forty four percent?
01:02:02
Speaker 1: Like he didn't? I heard, Yeah, I was listening on a broadcast the other night, and I think they said that he's Is he just second behind Steve Kerr?
01:02:11
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's just behind Steve Kerr. I think he's edging out Hubert Davis, Hubert Davis unc legend.
01:02:21
Speaker 2: I love the Rui shout.
01:02:22
Speaker 4: He's a really, really good offensive player. I've been saying that DFS needs to start over him. I still think DFS should start over him. But offensively, Ruy is so good and he's been bought in defensively, but just like a lights out shooter this year and one of the best cutting wings in basketball. I've always loved that about his game. His instincts there are so good, so good.
01:02:47
Speaker 2: So shout out to all of these guys.
01:02:48
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm sure that there's some more who we could rattle off, but I think that those were all good selections who he shouted out. Let's flip hard Logan form being these rays of positivity and sunlight? Did you just being absolute haters? I've just been thinking about the state of specifically a couple teams around the league and how truly catastrophic it is, and these teams are having a particularly hard time right now, and I just felt like we needed to talk about it. Which team should feel the worst about this season that they have had this year?
01:03:24
Speaker 1: Logan? You know, Carson, I thought this was gonna be just a no brainer.
01:03:28
Speaker 2: This dude got a hoodie and a hat on. I just noticed you got a hoodie and a hat on. Let's see that, bald nogging bro, what are you hiding? I see it.
01:03:37
Speaker 1: I can't take the hood off today, fair enough?
01:03:40
Speaker 2: You have a little guy under there? Is there a little guy rested on your head? Is that what it is.
01:03:44
Speaker 1: I got a little rat under my head, but instead of instead of pulling on my hair, he smacks the buttons on my head to control me.
01:03:50
Speaker 4: So I thought maybe he was your take, man, Maybe he was the brains of this whole operation. And there's somebody under it's gottomically large lump from when I hit you with that oversized mallet.
01:03:59
Speaker 2: The day is coming out of the top of your head.
01:04:02
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I figure it's a real ratitudey situation going on right now. Man. M hm uh. You know, I thought it was gonna be like the biggest no brainer answer of all time. And I was just gonna come out here and say the seventy six ers. But in a way, I have a little bit of sympathy for the Philadelphia seventy six ers, right, like Paul George and his unforeseen injury struggles. Right, I would have still paid Paul George, and I still expect him to bounce back a little bit. Embiid and his injury concerns. We always know it's just you gotta pray and cross your fingers and hope that he isn't gonna go down with a big injury, right, And so I have a little bit of sympathy because a lot of that has to do with injuries. The team I don't have sympathy for in a team that I think deserves to be here is the Phoenix Suns. There's no team that I would feel worse about all things considered, Yeah, the decisions that you have made that have led you up to the spot that you're in, but more importantly, all the assets in capital that you have invested in this win now window that just doesn't exist. It's not even window. It's not you know, we use all these different championship I said, the Oklahoma City's got a garage door. The Warriors have a window. The Suns don't even have like a peep hole. You know, they don't even have. It doesn't exist.
01:05:14
Speaker 4: That they're trapped in the basement and they're chained up.
01:05:17
Speaker 1: Locked away. It just doesn't exist. And I would just take notes if you're a prospective owner or a team that wants a guy that wants to own a team and make some big moves. I just think Matt Ishbia thought that it was gonna be way simpler up than it was and trying to get KD and trying to get it doesn't work man. You've got to build a cohesive roster top to bottom, and this team just doesn't have enough. And there's just no future for them. They're gonna be really bad, and they gonna be really bad for a long time. And guess what, They're not gonna have Devin Bookers. They're not gonna have Kevin Durant. They might have Bradley Beal. There's no future for this team. This is gonna be the one of the worst teams in basketball, I think for the next five to ten years after they lose these two stars, and they're already well on their way there. I just bad for the Phoenix Suns fan base. We know a lot of them, Carson because we used to live out in Arizona. It's a loyal group. It is a It's a group that was there when the Sons were great with Steve Nash and those great Sons teams, and they supported them, and they supported them through the down years when Devin Booker was a young buck, and it was really electric when we were living in the city and this team was good and going to the NBA Finals. That's gone. It's over. It's over for Phoenix and there's just no like a lot of these teams, man, I can say there's a silver lining, right even with like the Hornets of the Wizards. I can go, hey, man, you guys got some young stars that I like, I really hate that I have to dress it up this way. But I don't think there's anything to be optimistic about with the Phoenix Suns.
01:06:45
Speaker 2: There isn't.
01:06:46
Speaker 4: I think that they are the choice here. The Sixers make a strong case because this season really is catashock for them, and you can't just write off the injuries and say, oh, well, that's the problem this year, because this is really really concerning what's going on with MB Like we are talking about persistent knee pain and swelling. He is about to be thirty one years old in just a couple of weeks. They're reportedly exploring some quote radical procedures to address this situation. Like that's about as concerning news as you can have as a franchise for the guy who is your superstar. And also, he looked bad when he played this year, which is probably just a product of him not being one hundred percent comfortable and healthy. But all of that is bad and Paul George, I think a lot of this regression is permanently. Maybe he's slightly hampered by a lingering injury, but I think he's just incapable of getting to the rim now. He just seems to have fallen off a cliff a lot of times. His presence just isn't that noticeable. He hasn't been anything close to a star this year. And he's thirty four, and they paid him two hundred and twelve million dollars, and now they've lost nine straight. They're twenty and thirty eight, and they are hilariously on pace to land the seventh pick, which is the highest possible pick that they could get, and still have it go to the Thunder because their pick is top six protected this year. So if that happens, man, I mean, that is an f season when you were thinking, we've got our big three, we're gonna try to contend this year, and instead you like entirely miss the play in and don't even get your own pick, and you have major, major concerns about two of your three building blocks.
01:08:34
Speaker 1: So if it's top seven, it goes to Oklahoma City.
01:08:37
Speaker 2: If it's top six, the Sixers keep it.
01:08:41
Speaker 4: If it's seven through thirty, the Thunder got it, and right now it would be seven.
01:08:47
Speaker 1: I guess the lottery's going to decide all that. Man that's rough.
01:08:50
Speaker 4: He probably is gonna come down to the lottery, which is a really really bad place to be in for the Sixers. I still think that the Suns are worse because, like you said, I mean the injuries, they are very concerning for the Sixers, but at least they're kind of an excuse really, the Mbat injury, even though they haven't been good when Mbid has played, but you can look and you can say, hey, Tyrese Maxey has been really good. Like the efficiency isn't great, but considering the circumstances you saw, and he's averaging twenty seven plus a game, he's awesome.
01:09:21
Speaker 1: You lost Jared McCain too, you know, so like, well.
01:09:25
Speaker 4: Very very true. McCain will be back. Got to give a little bit of love to Gershan Yabusela the Dancing Bear. Like there are at least some little positives for them, Maxie and McCain. That's the big one. They have something going forward. They have two really really good young guards.
01:09:42
Speaker 1: Also, did you hear that report that came out. I think it just happened before the pod about the Suns and budenholes.
01:09:48
Speaker 2: Or No reportedly rioting.
01:09:52
Speaker 1: Reportedly, Budenholeser said something to Devin Booker about being less vocal.
01:09:57
Speaker 2: I did see that.
01:09:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't I really know exactly what that means, but it was really strange.
01:10:05
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, their vibes are at an all time low. And I don't blame them because there's no lifeboat here, man, I mean, there's no way off. They are just on a mind cart that is headed straight off a cliff. Dude, Like, if you were to try to say anything to defend this season, it would be the fact that when book and Katie play together, the Sons are actually twenty four and sixteen this year, but they're three and fifteen when they're missing either one of them, which to me just speaks to the abomination of a roster that they've put around those dudes, that you are one of the worst teams in the league, even with one of these really really good star basketball players on the floor.
01:10:44
Speaker 1: I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, Carson, I don't think this team owns Oh they don't.
01:10:49
Speaker 2: Have their own first round pick through twenty thirty one.
01:10:52
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, they are either dealing it away out right, or they are on the wrong end of a swap every single year. They also have the highest payroll in the entire NBA by a good bit by over twelve million dollars. And of course they have another two full years of Bradley Beal with a no trade clause at fifty plus million dollars a year. And they're just a bad basketball team. They've lost ten of twelve. They lost to the Blazers twice in that stretch. They lost to the Spurs without Wemby, they lost to the Rafters, they lost to the Pelicans. They are fucked to an extent that we have not seen since like maybe Brooklyn the twenty tens nets that's the only comparison. This might be worse, though, because the pick drought goes on for even longer and they're tied up even more financially in a guy who you desperately do not want to be tied up in a.
01:11:45
Speaker 1: Bradley untradeable contract.
01:11:47
Speaker 4: It's untradeable now Brooklyn, obviously, I mean they were in a terrible, terrible spot and they had to trade away multiple top three picks, didn't get to benefit from being one.
01:11:58
Speaker 1: Also, for worse that Boston hit on all those picks.
01:12:02
Speaker 4: And Boston hit. Obviously they get Jason Tatum and Jylen Brown out of it, so.
01:12:07
Speaker 2: That was truly horrible.
01:12:09
Speaker 4: But this is at least as bad because there's no way out of it, and there's nothing that can be done around booking Kdie. Like a lot of people thought that Tias Jones was gonna be the answer. It was never about a pure point guard. I thought early in the year, maybe if you get your defensive athletes out there more Royce O'Neill and if Ryan Dunn can be decent offensively, you can be better. That obviously has not been the case at all. They've been twenty seventh in defensive raiding. Bradley Beal just cannot possibly work with these two. You cannot be paying basically an entire roster in terms of cap just to those three players who don't work together. You can't even produce an elite offense because of their skill set redundancies. It's an all time disaster. So the only possible path for that after this season, to me, obviously, Katie has to be traded. That is a complete no brainer. I am hitting the Houston Rockets line over and over again. And I'm saying, just take Devin Booker. We will get our picks back, and we'll just hard reset this thing.
01:13:15
Speaker 1: Give me a player, give me some of my picks back, and we'll move on. You guys, go compete for a.
01:13:19
Speaker 4: Title, because if you trade book anywhere else, like, yeah, you can get a really good Hault, but you're not gonna benefit from sucking. But I think that a hard rebuild is the only possible option at this point. A hard rebuild, I guess with Bradley Beal still on the roster, or maybe once the other two are gone, he'll finally say, okay, just send me anywhere else.
01:13:39
Speaker 1: I guess. So miserable they got to see the writing on the wall.
01:13:42
Speaker 2: Man, they have to.
01:13:44
Speaker 4: I do think that Ishbia has not been good for them, and they have been trying to salvage a situation that was doomed for several years. And this is something that I've said repeatedly. The situation that they were in when they made the KD trade was a really hard one because you're a year removed from a sixty four win season, you're two years removed from an NBA Finals appearance. You feel like you absolutely should be in the mix in contending and you're not. But the reality is Chris Paul had regressed at that point. DeAndre Ayton had regressed at that point in that took them out of the position they were in as a contending team.
01:14:26
Speaker 2: And so.
01:14:28
Speaker 4: Like they just weren't nearly as close as they thought that they were, and Katie didn't get them to the place that they thought they should have been at. And then when they finally did trade Chris Paul and they got Bradley Beal, like that was them taking on a really bad oversized contract because they had another bad oversized contract on an aging, declining player. Like, they've just made a lot of desperate moves in a situation that was beyond saving and it's only gotten uglier and worse. And if they don't bail, if they don't jump ship after this year, then like, I'm just so sorry, Sons fans, because you can't keep this up. Any change would be welcome at this point. I know that Sons fans will not want to part ways with Devin Booker, but like, for the well being of your franchise, you probably should.
01:15:16
Speaker 1: You Gotta bite the bullet, man.
01:15:18
Speaker 4: Gotta bite the bullet, Hey, That's what I said when we had Jason on the other week and you asked whose future I would rather have between the sun, and he said.
01:15:26
Speaker 2: I'll take a bullet to the head.
01:15:28
Speaker 4: The only other team that you can maybe argue is in this conversation is the Pelicans, just because they expected to be a playoff team and they've been one of the worst teams in the league. But obviously that's mostly injuries. Dejante Murray is not good and they should definitely regret that trade. That was a mistake, but they got a little sumback for Bi and per thirty six, Zion is averaging thirty one nine and a half and six on fifty nine percent for shooting, he has been better than ever as a passer, his touch.
01:15:56
Speaker 1: The Pelicans, you know, at least have some of their picks over the.
01:15:58
Speaker 4: Next seven And that's the big thing, dude. What if they get Cooper Flag. If the Pelicans get Cooper Flag, then this year could be a blessing in disguise.
01:16:10
Speaker 2: One percent worth it.
01:16:11
Speaker 4: And I've decided that's the outcome I want to see most because healthy Zion just fires me up so much. I want to see him with another monster wing who can really succeed alongside anyone.
01:16:24
Speaker 2: Man well that would also be sick.
01:16:27
Speaker 4: That would also be sick. Yeah, I mean that would literally be perfect.
01:16:31
Speaker 1: Imagine that. I could imagine Cooper flag anywhere on so that guy just works.
01:16:35
Speaker 4: He'd work anywhere I want him to go and help another superstar talent, though, especially because I think so much of his skill set is the kind of guy where it's like he can be your best player, but he's not going to be your offensive. Alongside Wenby, he would not be their best player, but alongside Zion, long term, he could be their best player and their offensive number two, and that's perfect for him.
01:16:56
Speaker 1: I look at him like, I think Cooper could be like ad Jason Tatum kind of player where he just impacts every fast of the game, and I can honestly see a similar trajectory for Cooper. He probably won't be as effective as a scorer as Tatum was immediately, but I can definitely see him eventually getting to the spot where Tatum is at now, where he's an elite rebound or an elite defender, a really good playmaker, and yeah, a really good scorer as well. I just I love his all around skill set.
01:17:22
Speaker 4: I don't expect him to reach that level as a score. Can't rule it out. I do think that he'll score in the twenties. I don't know about the high twenties, but he's certainly much further ahead as a passer than Tatum was. And he should absolutely be a better defender. I mean, he should just be like all defense a year over year with the combination of perimeter and interior values. So put that in anywhere and it's gonna be awesome. But especially if he could save Zion Williamson, that would make me happy. And they need to like just miraculously summon a talent that good on a deal that cheap because they're tied up in dudes like Dejon and CJ. Who it's just not great, not great. The situation they were in not great, but not as catastrophic as what we're getting from the Sixers and above everybody else, the Phoenix Suns logan around to applause for the Phoenix Suns for being in the worst position not just of any team in the NBA right now, but that we have seen in quite some time. On that cheery note, is there anything else you want to say before we get out of here, Logan nas Reed, I knew you were gonna say nas Reed. I knew you were gonna say naz Reed. Shout out to nas Reed, shout out.
01:18:34
Speaker 1: Shout out Rob Dillingham, Shout out Terrence Shannon Junior bro.
01:18:37
Speaker 2: Terren Shannon Jr. Hooped yesterday. He hooped.
01:18:40
Speaker 4: Had to because they threw out of the game. See you officials were wild and in that Timberwolves Lakers game. The podcast is over now, Everybody go check us out. Listen to the pod on YouTube. Check out our video essays on YouTube. Listen to the pod across all audio platforms. Check us out on TikTok, Instagram, at s, Twitter, at nerd, Underscore Sesh, see graphics from the show, clips from the show, and all of our short form trivia content. You can also join our discord if you want to become part of our community. There to chat with the gang. That is linked at the link tree that has across our social media bios. And you can check out our merch if you want. That is also at our link tree and at breakingte dot com. So that as always appreciate you guys.
01:19:22
Speaker 2: I've been Carson Braber, I
01:19:23
Speaker 1: Have been Logan Camden and this was nerd Sash
Speaker 1: The volume. No, Oh my god, how could he do that?
00:00:15
Speaker 2: Don't watch.
00:00:18
Speaker 3: What Charles Darwin.
00:00:20
Speaker 1: The nerves is where it's at.
00:00:23
Speaker 2: Welcome everybody back into Dirt Session.
00:00:25
Speaker 4: As always, I'm Carson Breber alongside and he is Logan Camden, and today we got a bunch of wonderful basketball to talk about with you all. And we'll start Logan with a discussion related to what was the performance of the day Yesterday Steph Curry went out there and hung fifty six points on an elite Orlando Magic defense. This just continues a trend of him playing at a very, very high level since Jimmy Butler joined the team.
00:00:55
Speaker 2: Do you think.
00:00:56
Speaker 4: Steph is still a top three offensive player on the planet.
00:01:02
Speaker 1: I'm on the fence with this one, man. I think that if he's in the top three, he would be number three. I can't put him over Nicola Jokic. I don't think I can put him over Luka Doncic, even though that Luke has been in a little bit of a spell here recently. The guy I'm debating between is him and SGA, And it's really just the complete value that I get from Steph right because I think on a game to game basis, I probably prefer SGA's consistency as a scorer. But the thing with Steph is you just can't really quantify all of his gravity on offense in one number. I will say the one thing that really impressed me from this Orlando game one obviously just the superb shooting that we get from Steph. He goes twelve of nineteen from deep. He also cashed a ridiculous half court heave I think at halftime. Yeah, he just does stuff that you like, can't possibly defend, you know, such a quick trigger, elite catching shooter, coming off screens and immediately pulling, and he's got this impossibly quick release. Those are all the tenets of Steph being the greatest shooter of all time. What really impressed me and this one was how much he was getting downhill and getting to the rim man how much he was turning the corner on top of that.
00:02:12
Speaker 2: But well, that seems generous. I mean, I think the impressive.
00:02:15
Speaker 1: Part was the twelve three for sure, But it's just Steph doesn't normally do that, and I think he was doing a really good job of After he was hitting and they were playing up higher on him, he was weaponizing that in getting downhill more and anytime he's getting downhill. I just think Steph is uber effective. And Steph just improves this offense by so much. He improves them by nearly thirteen points offensively. They go from an offensive rating of one nineteen with him on the court to one oh six point two without him. He also improves the teams This is the most ridiculous number to me. He improved the team's effective field goal percentage by nearly seven percent when he's on the court, and I just think that number speaks to the shot quality that Steph generates. That's a good number then, you know, not just plays where he's touching the ball or passing it. That one, I do think really speaks to his gravity as a basketball player. Uh, I'm going to say no, I think he's number four. I think I marginally prefer SGA because of his consistency as a scorer. But it's so close, man, Steph is still so damn good. But I think that I think the Butler deal has breathed some new life into Steph a lot and this Warriors team in a lot of ways. The Luca trade and what it did for the Lakers I hate leaving Steph out of the top three because I do think he's one of the best in the league right now. But I think I just got to tip my cap to SGA.
00:03:42
Speaker 4: I want to start by just appreciating what as what Steph did in this game and what he's been doing in eight games since Jimmy joined the team. Steph Curry is averaging thirty point six points per game on seventy percent true shooting, unbelievable volume, unreal efficiency, and the team is seven to one and they've looked really, really good on both sides of the ball. It's not just the talent injection. It's the energy that Jimmy provides. It's his versatility on both sides of the floor that has just been so impactful.
00:04:11
Speaker 2: And his shooting.
00:04:13
Speaker 4: Steph shooting is just so godlike that if you just give him another legitimate creator and playmaker in this offense, like he can explode with this sort of efficiency, and that's what we've seen now. The burden on him night after night was just so crazy earlier in the year and throughout last year. And by the way, Jimmy didn't do anything as a scorer in this game. He was Yeah, but overall he has been able to bring so much offensive value with his mismatch attacking in spots, with his cutting, and with his playmaking as much as anything, just his ability to be that connective passer.
00:04:46
Speaker 2: But this is just one of those video.
00:04:48
Speaker 4: Game performances from Steph where you're like, this dude is not real. I mean, some of the shots that he is pulling off movement, so much of it came curling around screens with just these air tight wins.
00:05:00
Speaker 2: Knows some of the stuff off the dribble, the step back.
00:05:02
Speaker 4: Threes towards the end of this game, like heat check after heat check, and he is just draining every one of them. And this just continues to make history for Steph. He is the most explosive score in terms of just those stints. Right, A Steph Curry flurry is more explosive than anything that we've seen in the past decade plus at least, I mean, maybe as explosive as any scorer that we have ever seen. Since twenty fifteen, he has forty quarters with twenty or more points. Next most is James Harden with twenty nine. Obviously, part of this is just like the three point volume, the fact that the three point shooting is on parallel, and when you put together a string of unbelievable three point shooting, that just compounds more quickly than if you're putting together two after two after two. He has fourteen games with eleven or more threes made. Next most all time is and Clay with just four. He has twenty six games with ten or more threes made. Next most is Clay with nine. So the history of it is remarkable. But this season, you look at STEP's bottom line production, a lot of people were thrown out, a lot of slander. I remember, Logan, you made the whole video about how Kendrick Perkins was being his usual idiotic self, saying that Steph didn't deserve to be in the All Star Game when he was obviously deservedly a lock. The production looks pretty darn good now, twenty four points and six assists per game on sixty one percent true shooting, But obviously that totally under sells the impact. You mentioned how much he's improved the Warriors offense by that's a number that's only surpassed by Jokic this year. I believe and SGA is right there with Steph. They basically have the same number. It's just a gravity, man, It's the same thing that it's always been. It's when he's flying off an off ball screen and two guys go to the ball and it just frees up a wide.
00:06:55
Speaker 2: Open cut for a teammate.
00:06:56
Speaker 4: Like it's every single time he is running around the floor, multiple defenders are locked in on him. It's just unprecedented off ball attention. And he still has that as much as he ever has.
00:07:08
Speaker 1: Well, I was gonna say, dude, and that's why I'm so confident that even as Steph ages and I know we've talked about this Amiria a myriad of times over the last five years. Steph's getting older, right, He's losing some of that athletic pop. He doesn't get downhill and gets to the rim as much. I mean, he can still do this whenever he gets like that. And with shooters, especially the greatest shooter of all time, it's like when shots are falling like this, the team feels it around him where they are feeding him the ball, they are looking to feed him the rock. We saw it in the Olympics. It's just a feel thing where the basket feels massive, and I know that's a cliche, but it really does in the degree of difficulty. But that's why I'm so confident in Steph's game, aging so gracefully and him still being able to be uber effective even as he continues to age and get older and lose some of this at Yeah there, it's shit that you just can't defend as an NBA defense, Like they're unstoppable shots. And as long as Steph still has that cardio in, as long as he has his legs underneath him. Like, don't get me wrong, it's just I don't expect it to be like a drastic fall off or a decline or anything like that. Like, I still think Steph is going to provide elite level offensive value no matter how old he is, because of this shooting ability and because of again, it's just stuff that defenses can't take away. It's it's one of the most unique skill sets in basketball, and it's so so it's so unique, man, he's just Steff's the go. Man. I love watching games like this. It is such a treat. There's just something so specially like this performance. Yeah, man, there's I think it's the most exciting thing in sports. And obviously, like I'm a little bit biased, like because I like basketball. I like watching basketball more than any other sport, But I just can't think of anything that just excites me like a Steph flurry.
00:09:03
Speaker 2: Man, There's just.
00:09:04
Speaker 4: No equivalent in terms of runs right every other sport. Basically, it's just harder to put up points baseball, hockey, soccer, American football. Like basketball, is the one sport where you are getting the ball half the time and it is legitimately likely that you will score on any one of those possessions, especially when you're hot like Steph is, So you can just get seven to eight electrifying possessions in a row that doesn't exist in any other sports.
00:09:34
Speaker 2: So I agree.
00:09:36
Speaker 4: I mean, when Steph is on, those flurries are like nothing that we've ever seen in terms of just the thrill that you get as a viewer. And also then again literally just in terms of the ability to put points together in bunches, those sort of monster quarters.
00:09:52
Speaker 1: Not to mention that it just takes the life out of the other team. And I want to give Orlando credit because they had a big lead in this game Golden State, they took it, stormed, built up a big lead in the fourth quarter and I want to give credit for Orlando not just laying down and playing dead. They ended up making it pretty close again in the fourth quarter. But it's just demoralizing, man. It just takes your soul in the game. It steals your hope, where you just left with this completely empty, helpless feeling of we can't do anything, where there's no way to stop this.
00:10:23
Speaker 4: You mentioned that Steph will continue to have that elite offensive value and obviously has maintained a lead offensive value at thirty six years old, almost thirty seven now as a small guard, which is something that we've really never seen in the history of this game. The one area in which we have seen him decline some and in which we will continue to see him decline. It's not about his ability to curl around screens and be an unprecedented, unrivaled weapon there or to be a ridiculously efficient spot up shooter, the spacing, the gravity stuff off ball. Like you said, as long as he can run around, that SHOT's not going anywhere.
00:10:59
Speaker 2: It's the on ball juice.
00:11:01
Speaker 4: And that's where he took a step back last year compared to the previous season.
00:11:05
Speaker 2: And that's where he's taken another.
00:11:06
Speaker 4: Bit of a step back. This year just hasn't been as efficient it used to be. Every single year he'd be a ninety something percentile pick and roll score. This year he's at seventy second, which is good but not elite isolation. He has had a lead efficiency for a lot of the recent seasons, but this year he's only a fifty second percentile isolation scores. It's just a little bit of that regression athletically. Like you said, he very very rarely gets to the rim now, which was also the case last year. But he also gets to the line noticeably less than he did even just a couple of years ago. Those are the areas that lead to the sort of inconsistency that we have seen from Steph, where there are certain games where he just can't himself on ball with that much volume.
00:11:54
Speaker 1: I will say, I really like some of the five out lineups that the Warriors are running that open up them hate for him to drive into though, like the lineup last night we saw with Quinton post Like, and I've really loved the juice that he's given this team, oh yeah, recently, but it just it helps the offense so much and it's so hard to cover when you've got all that space. I really like that Golden States leaned into that. I think it's a real weapon that they can employ and it it just makes everything easier for the entirety of the offense.
00:12:23
Speaker 4: As a team. They are just at their best when they're five out. I love the small ball stuff. But also Post has been so productive. He's putting up twenty points, nine rebounds, four assists on sixty four percent true shooting per thirty six minutes. Like he just gets in there and sprays can really shoot the.
00:12:40
Speaker 2: Shit out of it.
00:12:41
Speaker 1: He makes really good decisions too, like he doesn't try to ever force the issue.
00:12:45
Speaker 4: No really really solid offensive basketball player. He was an absolute find for them, and Pods has been really good. I mean, they're so quick defensively when they do go small. Jimmy and Dre are so good as your defensive front court and those looks, and then they have so much space, they have so much play making so much IQ Like there's no question the Dubs are hitting their stride and they're really really good. And Steph is amazing. I'm just answering the question that we posed, which is is he a top three offensive player on the planet. I can't say that. I am going to say number four as well, like you, I think Joka just clearly won. I think that Luca, like you said, he's slumping, and he's really slumping right now. But obviously weird circumstances and we just know the level he's at as a score and playmaker, one of the best pick and role players we've ever seen, walking mismatch all time passer. He's number two, and then I do think that you have to go with Shay as your number three. What I love about Steph is the off ball stuff, how many different players will thrive and be their best alongside Steph Curry, because it's basically any player in NBA history, Like, the impact is incredible, certainly more so than the production or even the efficiency this year his raw efficiency would indicate, but it's just inconsistency, and it's the regression in terms of on ball juice. Like, there have been a number of games this year where Steph gives you under fifteen points. There have been ten of them, so basically one in every five games Steph is giving you fifteen points or fewer. And there's been a couple of just disasters. Right the Indiana game where he goes two of thirteen right after the Memphis game where he went oh of seven and had two points, and there were people who were saying he was washed and he wasn't a superstar then, and all of that was definitely not true, and he was in very difficult offensive circumstances. And he looks better with Jimmy, and I think he'll continue to look better with Jimmy. But there is a floor there that is significantly lower than what you're getting from these other guys, especially SGA, who is like an absolute floor god and is one of the greatest scorers we've ever seen. The production, I mean, over thirty two points per game on sixty four percent through shooting, incredibly dominant on ball, best guard in the league at getting to and finishing around the rim, best mid range guard in the league. And now he's a legitimately damn good pull up three point shooter with more volume. He's getting to that place where you look at the last game that the Thunder played and he's getting trapped forty feet out every possession down like they just don't want to let him make a decision, They don't want to let him work one on one. You saw a similar thing, not to that same extreme degree that the Nets did it, but in the second Timberwolves game where they're just trapping Sja over and over.
00:15:22
Speaker 2: Down the stretch.
00:15:23
Speaker 4: That's a testament to what he's doing offensively. That's something that we haven't seen since like James Harden circa twenty twenty, where it's just we are trapping him the second that he passes half court. So I'm gonna take that, dude.
00:15:36
Speaker 2: That scoring.
00:15:36
Speaker 4: The playmaking I think is underrated and has progressed. He just gets wherever he wants on the floor and is an unbelievable shot maker, gets what he wants in terms of the easy stuff, and then also just will destroy you from the mid range and as a pull up shooter. And like I said, he's improving the Thunder offense by twelve and a half points fo one hundre possessions and they're an elle lead offense when he's on the floor, and they're a disaster when he's off the floor. So it's no bad thing to be the fourth best offensive player on the planet at thirty sixty years old. And that's where I think Steph nestles in and I do think that he's still.
00:16:08
Speaker 2: A top ten player.
00:16:09
Speaker 4: We were talking about this the other day. We both had him in our top ten, but I think he's there. The offense is just still so transformative.
00:16:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's obviously an inherent volatility like you were mentioning, but there's also like such a high ceiling for Steph in any given game. Again, it wasn't that long ago that against the Kings in a playoffs series he gave you sixty. I mean, like, Steph can still do that. He's a very bad He's.
00:16:33
Speaker 4: Fifty, but give him a little juice, No, give them a little bars. It felt like sixty that game was unreal.
00:16:39
Speaker 1: He's still a very bad bad man, and he is. Like I said, man, there's a there's an unquantifiable hope factor that I really like with Golden State right now, where they they believe. This team really believes that they're on the cusper on the precipice of doing potentially something special. They've got a lot more juice now that I didn't see it before this move.
00:17:01
Speaker 4: Well, and they should have belief. I mean they do have Jews. Their talent just got a lot better. But the offense has been phenomenal. They're fourth and offensive rating since they traded for Jimmy. Since he debuted with the team, they're second in defensive rating. Man Like, I just love what Steve Kerr has done, Like I said in previous episodes, never playing Jimmy Andre alongside a non shooting center, and they're going smaller going with post I love that the starting five has been Steph, POD's, Moody, Jimmy Dre. Those are the five right guys. Pods has been playing super well. That just gives you the right blend of defense, athleticism, shooting like they're really good. This team can legitimately win a playoff series.
00:17:42
Speaker 1: I think so too. And real quick, before we move on, you mentioned Steve Kerr. I just wanted to give him an extra shout out. So many of these Steph points are coming off of actions that the Warriors are running as a team unit. And the one that blew my mind is I think it was in the third or I think it was in the third quarter. They're running that action in the middle of the core and the two Magic defenders get so confused that two of them run to the left wing and they leave Steph wide open for a right I think he actually missed that three pointer. But it's just like this, this offense is so well designed. There's a lot of talent here, but I think Steve deserves some credit too, Like there were so many great plays and great actions that this team employs. I'm I'm really excited about the Warriors, man.
00:18:24
Speaker 4: And having another dude with the feel and the IQ and the passing ability and the off ball instincts of a Jimmy Butler just makes all of the organized offense that much more effective. Like he has been a dream fit in this motion system. He is so good at that sort of read and react basketball and executing designed actions, and like I said, he's a stud. Defensively, the Warriors are forcing nineteen point six turnovers per game since he joined the team. That is the best number in basketball in that stretch by a good bit. Like they're doing exactly what small ball defenses need to do to succeed their applying ball pressure. They're flying round and offensively, they just have so much space now.
00:19:04
Speaker 2: It's really really fun man.
00:19:05
Speaker 4: And Jimmy has had a couple of very quiet scoring games back to back now, but he just hasn't been very aggressive the entire time that he's been with the Warriors.
00:19:14
Speaker 2: He hasn't been aggressed this whole season.
00:19:15
Speaker 1: I think was gonna say, Man, I think Jimmy's biden his time waiting for the playoffs. He's gonna get about that hyperbaric chamber.
00:19:23
Speaker 4: And I mean his efficiency on ball this year has been absurd and everything outside of that, which to me is more significant when you're judging the fit, has been an a plus since he joined the Warriors. I'm really really excited about this team. It's just so meaningful man to be able to put a team around Steph that he can believe in that can get him excited. It's not about winning the title every year. Sometimes that's not possible. It's about doing justice to best player in your franchise history. And like right now they'd be the seventh seed, they'd be facing the two seed Memphis. Like, that's not a mismatch, Bro, that is not a mismatch. They can win that series. So that's exciting. Another team, Logan that made a move at the deadline, and I think is feeling pretty good about how they've been playing.
00:20:10
Speaker 2: As of late. The Milwaukee Bucks.
00:20:12
Speaker 4: They've won five of six and they just got a big National TV win over Denver. How much of a playoff threat are they with their new look roster?
00:20:24
Speaker 1: So I mentioned this on last show. I definitely prefer Milwaukee to the Knicks. I would have the Bucks three ahead of New York, behind Boston, behind Cleveland, and they are looking really good post Kuzma trade. They're twenty second in offensive rating, but their fifth and defensive rating and eleventh in net rating. The one thing that concerns me in all the matchups against these other top three teams that I mentioned that aren't Milwaukee, Boston, Cleveland, and New York, they're own three versus Boston, they're own three versus Cleveland, and they're own two versus the Knicks. But that is all prior to the Chris Middleton trade, so we haven't seen this team with Kuzma injected in here against these looks. I just have some really glaring concerns about Milwaukee when it comes up against these top contenders. One I think my biggest first concern is generating high quality open looks and especially against and I know they beat Denver, but watching back like that Houston game against a really good defense like them, they really struggled to get any like easy offense. It's a lot of really contested threes. It's there's just not there's not a lot of easy offense for Milwaukee, and that's what scares me. And when I think about them against So what I mean by that is it's more important for this team to get stops. It's so important first that they win defensively and then win and transition and get offense off of their defense. I think that's how this Milwaukee team has to win. So why am I worried about that? One? I worry about this backcourt in them rebounding. This is not a really good rebounding team outside of the Big Boys, and they're gonna they should get Bobby Ports back hopefully, But that's a concern of mine. And then the other concern of mine is just how they match up against some of these elite teams. Still Boston spreading them out five out, it's gonna be really trouble troublesome. I think for Brook Lopez defending in space and all that area in the interior for Boston to go to work, They're just a hardcover in general, Cleveland, I worry about them with these two dynamic guards. I know that they've figured out the rotations a little bit more. They have better personnel than they did before to defend Cleveland. I still worry about them defending Garland and defending Donovan Mitchell, And honestly, I think the Cleveland has a good answer, as good of an answer as you can have for Giannis on the other side of the ball with an Evan Mobley and with a Jared Allen. And then when I look at New York, kind of similar issues to Boston, where they're gonna be really spread out and they're gonna have to defend a lot of space. I don't know, man, I think Milwaukee could get to like a Fluke Eastern Conference It's finals run maybe if Jannis and Dame really boss up. Because that's the strength of this team. I don't want to undersell that aspect. That is why I like Milwaukee more than New York. They've got Dame, they've got Giannison, They've got a defense I like more than New York. There's just a lot of glaring flaws with this team. Man. They're slow, they're unathletic, they don't have a ton of great defenders down this roster. But my real concern right now at least recently, is them generating high quality open looks. And I don't know, man, I I could see Milwaukee making some noise, but to me, it feels like they're gonna be a second round exit.
00:23:34
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's no shame in being a second round exit in an East that has the Celtics and the Calves, who are two incredible basketball teams. But I don't see Milwaukee posing an actual threat to either one of those teams. I do want to talk about where I think cous has helped them, because I think there were a lot of people who were flat out trying to say that Coos.
00:23:56
Speaker 2: Was bad when that trade was made.
00:23:58
Speaker 4: I didn't like the trade, but I saw the things that they were prioritizing, and I said, those aren't bad things to prioritize. And I was also optimistic that Kus would look better in a new situation. I just think Chris Middleton is really good when he was healthy, and I do think that there's still a big difference between him and Kus because the offensive gap is absolutely massive. But there were a lot of people acting like Kyle Kuzma in Washington. This absolute laughing stock is going to be equivalent to Kyle Kuzman a serious situation, which is kind of crazy just because, like we've seen him really buy in and do the role player stuff before. We've seen him be a big positive in Los Angeles in a title run, and he's back to doing that stuff.
00:24:38
Speaker 1: Man.
00:24:38
Speaker 4: I mean, defensively, he has been so good. And we have talked for a long time about how they do lack plus athletes around Brooke and Giannis. They do lack another, like really good rebounding forward. They have lacked some of those plus bigger wing defenders, and so they got more athletic, they got bigger, they got longer, they got a guy who can rea and he's buying into doing all of that stuff. Kho's is defending his ass off in a mold that they needed. And honestly, their defensive front court now is up there for the best in basketball. The combination of rim protection with Brooke and Yannis, and then you have the rebounding that all these guys provide, you have the perimeter defense that you get from COO's. It's really really awesome what they can do defensively now. And this is the role that Ko's is best suited for. I mean, he's just too limited offensively to be like the sort of lead guy eating up your volume on a really bad.
00:25:34
Speaker 2: But I mean when you can, Washington.
00:25:36
Speaker 1: When you can create him an advantage and let him attack closeouts and stuff like that, I mean, it's a it's a it's a really good role for him.
00:25:43
Speaker 2: Really good role.
00:25:44
Speaker 4: His offense has still been rough though, and I think he's shooting about twenty five percent in second halves in Milwaukee. The shot has just been killer for him all year. He's twenty eight percent from three in Milwaukee, like he was in Washington.
00:25:58
Speaker 2: I would hope and expect.
00:25:59
Speaker 4: That gets up closer to like thirty two to thirty three percent where he's normally been, which is still a bad number, but he's not a catastrophic number.
00:26:07
Speaker 1: And he's sixty three percent from the line this year.
00:26:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, shot is just not there.
00:26:13
Speaker 4: So he's given you fifteen points per game on fifty percent true shooting. That's really the concern because he's a good, versatile basketball player and people will look at him offensively and like you said, he can attack a close out.
00:26:23
Speaker 2: He's a good athlete. He's got a bag.
00:26:25
Speaker 4: It's just the bag doesn't lead to good shots for him, and right now, he's not able to do the simple stuff in terms of just knocking down catch and shoot threes that they desperately need him too. So their offense has suffered. Like you said, they're twenty second in offensive rating since.
00:26:41
Speaker 2: They traded for Coups.
00:26:43
Speaker 4: They lose a lot of creation and a lot of shot making going from Middleton to Coup's playmaking, I mean Middleton for them last couple of playoffs was like I think a twenty four to nine to six guy on fifty eight percent true shooting, like he can be a flat out offensively in a playoff series, and they've really lost that punch now, so so much is on Damon Giannis offensively, and like this team in totality can shoot because they have some dudes who are just absolutely knocked down AJ Green, Torrian Prince, Gary Trent, Like those guys are phenomenal shooters. But then you're also gonna have to play some guys who are very very questionable shooters, like Kuzma. They're always trying to strike the balance between what they're prioritizing in their role players. If it's getting Andre Jackson Junior out there because he's awesome defensively, but then he's super limited offensively and as a shooter. If it's getting a more offensively slanted guy like a Gary Trent Junior or Torrian Prince out there who aren't as good defensively, like, that's the battle that they're fighting. And all year this team has just been an average offense. They're fifteenth in offensive raiding. They just really don't have a lot of talent alongside Damon Giannis when we're comparing them to these top end teams. They're also twenty ninth in clutch offensive rating and that is not a good indicator when it comes to grinding out some of these tough playoff wins.
00:28:10
Speaker 2: And an interesting way to think about it.
00:28:13
Speaker 4: Shout out to our friend Tyler from hoop Venue because he tweeted out yesterday, I think his top four top fours in the NBA, that meaning the four teams that have the best top four players on their rosters, and it was Cleveland, OKC, Boston, and Denver, and I think he said that those top fours were relatively close and that it may end up being that the key difference this year is what do you get from your five through eight, And there there is a massive gap between an OKC, a Cleveland, even a Boston compared to a Denver. I also think that if you look at the second best players on those teams, Denver's last. If you look at the third best player on those teams, Denvers last, that's a story for another time. But Milwaukee, it's like, if you compare them to Cleveland or Boston or Okay, see, there is a huge gap between their top four because those are teams who are getting like legitimate star production from their third guy. I think Boston's third best player is Jalen Brown. I think the Thunder's third best player is Jalen Williams.
00:29:20
Speaker 2: I think that the Cavs.
00:29:21
Speaker 4: Third best player is Darius Garland, who's played at like an all NBA level last year. Right, those are stars. And then you look at the Bucks and it's like Brook Lopez and then their fourth best guy is Kyle Kuzma, and you're comparing that to Derek White or Jared Allen or whoever you think the Thunder's fourth best guy is, Like, there's just a big difference there. And then the real problem is you look at the next four, the five through eight, and there's an even bigger gap there. Because at least you have Damon Giannis. The depth of this roster just does not compare to the elite teams, like I think that that gets underrated some with the truly elite teams that we've seen this regular season. But you look at the Thunder and they have Aaron Wiggins, and they have lou Dord, and they have Cason Wallace, and they have Isaiah Joe and they have Alice Caruso.
00:30:13
Speaker 2: It's just ridiculous. You look at the Calves.
00:30:16
Speaker 4: And they have DeAndre Hunter, and they have Ty Jerome, and they have Max Strus and.
00:30:20
Speaker 2: They have Dean Wade. Just so many good basketball players.
00:30:25
Speaker 4: Obviously the Celtics, right their fifth best player is Drew Holliday, and then they have Al Horford and they have same Houserd, they have Peyton Pritchard who's been a stud. Milwaukee just doesn't have that sort of contributions from their role players, and that's what it comes down to. It's never been about Damon Giannis and what they can do. It's been about the totality of the talent on this roster. They've done a really good job, I think, making the most out of what they've had this season. I've been so impressed by the level that they've reached defensively, I still can't view them as a true threat to knock off these uber talented, super complete teams. They just have a lot more off defensive juice in total.
00:31:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exactly where I come down with them, and in a way, I am a little bit worried right about them versus New York. For that reason, it's very close between Milwaukee and New York, and my marginal preference to their defense is why I ultimately side with Milwaukee. But I could very well see Brunson and Kat just taking over in mcal Bridges, who Mcowbridge has just been consistently disrespected this NBA season, where I feel like, I mean, he brings me some pop and I just don't trust that the shooting around Milwaukee. And again it's not because I don't trust the individual shooters themselves. Princes is a good shooter. AJ Green is a phenomenal shooter. Right, These guys are good shooters, But the quality of shots that they're getting isn't great. They're not always getting wide open looks. It's a lot of movement shots off screens, it's a lot of contested threes, where in a playoff series that could be the variable that either gets you to the next round or sends you home. And I don't like banking on that. I just don't think the offense is good enough. I think it's a little bit too flawed for me to bank on them doing real damage in these playoffs.
00:32:07
Speaker 4: I agree one little thing you did mention the rebounding. I do think a lot of that is just a product of the fact that Milwaukee really.
00:32:14
Speaker 2: Does not crash the offensive glass.
00:32:16
Speaker 4: Because they're a really, really good defensive rebounding team, and I think they're dead last and offensive.
00:32:20
Speaker 1: They're also great. It makes sense too, because I mean, Brook Lopez is primarily on the outside right. If you had an interior oriented big man, he's just not near the rim as much.
00:32:30
Speaker 4: Brook also just doesn't actually grab rebounds. He just eats up bodies with box outs, and he's been averaging like five to six rebounds a game for many years now. But he is a more impactful rebounder than that would suggest real quick. Just on the Denver side of this game, I've been a real optimist about the Nuggets throughout this year. I've done a lot of defending the Nuggets and considering the fact that a lot of people were in full on Skyes falling mode early on this year. Now they're sitting here thirty eight and twenty one in the three seed. They've done okay, but at some point in a big game against a really good team, you gotta show me something defensively. Like I can sit here and say, oh, the offense is elite, and Jokic is the best player in the world, and Jamal has rounded into form, and Christian Brown has been really impressive, and Russ has been a really good fit, and all of those things can be true about the offense, and I can say, well, we've seen them defend at a solid level, a good level before in the playoffs with a similar construction, But night after night they're just unserious on that end this season. And like I do think that they can lock in more. I am going to continue to believe that, but it's pretty frustrating watching them play against really good teams and just not execute as well as they need to to win those games, especially defensively.
00:33:54
Speaker 1: Tell me what you think. I think Denver's one of those teams where if their shots aren't falling offensively, they kind of have this tendency to put their head down and not try as hard.
00:34:02
Speaker 4: Well, part of it is just transition, bro, They're just a bad transition defense. But I agree, I think that there has been a lot of that this season.
00:34:09
Speaker 1: Well I'm thinking about back to even last season, like against Minnesota, when they couldn't get anything going and this team just puts their head down. It gets dogged like it's not a.
00:34:18
Speaker 2: Well I'll tell you who does that. Jamal Murray does that.
00:34:21
Speaker 1: Yes, for sure, it's in Sometimes it's other guys. Jamal for sure, Jamal does that a lot.
00:34:26
Speaker 4: Where Jamal also, I think, just got demoralized in a way that few players have.
00:34:30
Speaker 2: In a long time last year by that Wolves defense.
00:34:32
Speaker 4: But he is a guy who's wired that way, and like Jokic, isn't always a super high effort player, specially defensively, Like it can be very night tonight with him MPJ, it can be night tonight. So that's kind of just the reality with this team. But I've had them as my number four contender. There's a big gap between the top three in them. I thought that they could maybe close the gap on Cleveland. Cleveland is awesome. Cleveland is so damn good, and they play Boston tonight. I'm really excited for that, very excited. That should be a really fun game. Last time we talked, I said I felt like Cleveland had like a twenty percent chance of beating Boston in a seven game series. That feels a little low to me. I think it's probably more.
00:35:15
Speaker 2: Like wow, thirty. Okay.
00:35:18
Speaker 4: Their offense is just unbelievable. Evan Mobley is a top fifteen player and we all know it now they have DeAndre Hunter. I still think that Boston is better because same thing as I've always said, that defense is just more solid, it's more bulletproof, and that's a meaningful difference here. They can attack Cleveland's defensive vulnerabilities and there are no defensive vulnerabilities for Cleveland to attack. But the Cavs are forty eight and ten man and their top four really is excellent. So I still think that Boston is better, and I still think that Boston is clearly better for a seven game series. But Cleveland is unbelievable and I'm very much looking forward to that game. Let's go elsewhere in the Central Division, Logan, because the hottest team it's not the Bucks Actually, the Cavs have won as many straight games as this team has, but the Pistons have also one eight straight logan here. They are now one year removed from a fourteen win season. They are thirty three and twenty six and comfortably in the sixth seed, five games above the play in range.
00:36:23
Speaker 2: Can this team win a playoff series?
00:36:27
Speaker 1: I think they can. I think some things have to go their way the way the dominoes fall, but it is possible. Over their last ten games, their number two in net rating, they're number four in offensive rating, and they're number three in defensive rating. I don't want to be a Debbie downer here. I will mention that it's Philadelphia, it's Charlotte without LaMelo in Chicago twice, it's San Antonio no mb But then it's a.
00:36:55
Speaker 2: Lane Clippers and the Celtics.
00:36:57
Speaker 1: I mean it's Clippers no Kawhi, no Norman, and Boston no Jalen Brown. But they are legitimate wins. They are legitimate Celtics.
00:37:03
Speaker 4: You take away any one of them. Yeah, and it's still impressive.
00:37:07
Speaker 1: It's still and they've still a damn near All Star team. Yeah they did. Tatum got his shout out, but they did get them, and there's a lot of guys that have been bawling during the stretch. Kate Cunningham, we can't sing his praises enough. Man, it's been I'm just so happy for the guy that he has confident basketball players around him. I mean, finally, he's given you twenty eight, six and ten over the last ten games on forty seven thirty eight, ninety four splits. He's actually got a lower turnover number over these last ten games. And on the season, Beasley's been shooting the hell out of the ball. Tobias Harris has been playing awesome basketball. Jaylen Duran, I think has taken a little bit of a leap this season and is playing better. And Asar Thompson is a defensive monster. You gotta give credit to the identity change for this team because you mentioned it, Carson. They hit thirty one wins over the last two seasons combined. I've got thirty three this year. I mean, and this is the natural progression that we see from these young teams that go from complete bottom feeders to in the hunt. And that's the hardest leap, in my opinion, to make. It's very hard to go from in the hunt to real contender. That is a very very hard jump to make. But it's very hard to go from the Dredges to hey, we're competitive, and they've done that. And I'm gonna tip my cap to the young players and also Bickerstaff for coming in here and handling business. This is a strong defensive team with an offensive star. I like that formula, and more importantly, the thing that I thought about in this Boston game, this Detroit team is a team that's gonna make you pay for your mistakes. You could walk in Las a days ago, over the last couple of seasons, not play your best game, and guess what you were gonna walk away with a win against the Detroit Pistons. It almost didn't matter what you did. You could screw up, you could have a bad shooting night, you could be turning the ball over all game long. This team's gonna make you pay, and they're also gonna make you work, like the way they were forcing turnovers on Boston. The collective defense, How connected this team is. That's what I really like. Man. It's a team that's committed, that's playing hard on that end, winning defensively and then going to work offensively, and so how do they win a playoff series. I think it's a very very specific formula. But if they can get the four of the five seed and they can draw Indiana in the first round, I think i'd take Detroit. I think I take defense. I think so I like this defense enough. Man, I think they can be disruptive, but I'd confidently take the field. I think with any other matchup, if they're taking on any of those big dogs, I think Detroit would get dogged. But if they can draw Indiana and hold on to the four or five seed, I think Detroit's got a real chance at winning a playoff series.
00:39:46
Speaker 4: I definitely think that Indiana is the path to them winning a playoff series. Realistically, they're not going to be in the play in which is the good news. They won't have to face either of the absolute juggernauts. I still think that the Knicks and the Bucks just at a serious talent advantage. The Knicks with the totality of their offense. In the Bucks just with the overwhelming Dame and Giannis Combo and then having a good team defense, that's too much for this piss and seem to overcome. But Indiana, although I think that they have gotten underrated, and interestingly, Logan very interestingly, when Hallie is struggling, it's all that anybody talks about. When the Pacers are struggling, it's all that anybody talks about. And then they just have several months of really good basketball team and they're the four seed in their nine games above five hundred, and Hallie's been quite good and has been playing like a star, and nobody talks about.
00:40:37
Speaker 1: I don't really know why people hate Tyrol. I love Tyres Whims.
00:40:41
Speaker 2: I think he gets around too much.
00:40:42
Speaker 1: I think he's got a heart of gold. I think he's got a great positive attitude, and I think he plays fundamentally unselfish basketball. I mean, maybe he's got a couple goofy outfits. I don't know, man. I like Tyrese Haliburton a lot.
00:40:55
Speaker 4: I like Callie a lot, and I think that he plays a beautiful brand of basketball and he's been playing well.
00:41:00
Speaker 2: Like I said, so, I would.
00:41:02
Speaker 4: Take Indiana in that series because I think that their offense is a lead.
00:41:08
Speaker 2: I think that it's just as.
00:41:10
Speaker 4: Good as the offense that we saw last year. Their ability to push pace extremely effectively, the totality of the offensive skill they have on the floor. The Halle and Siakham duo is super good. You have a number of guys who can step up as playmakers.
00:41:23
Speaker 2: TJ.
00:41:24
Speaker 4: McConnell, of course, Andrew Nemhard Neie Smith has gotten back and healthy to be a solid two way contributor for you. Miles Turner is just one of the better offensive centers in basketball. The offense is great. The defense is not good. The defense is never gonna be good. It's gotten better as the year has gone along, but it's a below average defense. I just prefer that sort of offensive formula that I know is gonna be reliably really good to what Detroit is doing right now, where they're grinding out games with defensive effort, but they don't have the highest defensive ceiling, and then offensively there's so much on cage shoulders.
00:42:04
Speaker 2: I think they could win this series.
00:42:05
Speaker 1: They could muck that series up, man, I think they can.
00:42:08
Speaker 4: Here's how I think you muck the series up. I think you put a sar on Hallie and you see how much hell he can give him. Because when they've matched up this year, it's mostly just been like Beasley and thhj on Halle, but Asar has been playing better, He's been playing his best basketball as of laid and like that's the archetype that I think can give Halle the most trouble, those super athletics, super long psycho wings, Like look at what Toumani Kamara did to him a few weeks ago, where hell he didn't score in that game. Like, if you can just limit his volume, if you can deny him the ball, Like Halle, he's a great offensive player, he's not the most agressive offensive player, and he's not somebody who is going to necessarily create a ton of advantages versus those sort of elite athletes who can really pester him. So that would be really interesting. I think that would be the matchup to watch that would basically define the series. But the reason that I say, although I think Detroit is a good defense, they don't really have the ability to be an elite defense. A SAR is like their only awesome defender in the starting lineup. Isaiah Stewart is a really good defender as well, but Duran good offensive player, really good rebounder, still not a good defensive center, still not a good rim protector, still not a good drop defender. So that puts a ceiling on what you can be. And like, what I like about their defense is everybody's engaged. They don't have any small dudes on the floor really ever. Kate is a super big point guard, and then you've got THHJ out there who has solid size, or even Malik Beasley has solid size. Like there's a lot of collective length.
00:43:44
Speaker 2: But again, I don't see enough of those really high end defenders.
00:43:48
Speaker 4: The rim protection isn't enough for me to think like this is a defense that you are going to ride to win a playoff series. Like I think they can defend very well. That can be a big part of it, but then they still need to produce a good bit offensively and they're just an okay offense. Caid has been incredible without Jaye n Ivy. They're eighteen and ten when Caid plays without Ivy, and he's averaging twenty eight six and ten on fifty seven percent throuugh shooting. That's ridiculous. Tobias Harris has been hoopin' as of late in the wind streak nineteen points per game on seventy percent true shooting. Just having a good play finisher like that, who can get himself a bucket in a spot who can knock down, catch and shoot jumpers valuable, and I think the totality of their shooting is underrated. Like Malike Beasley is one of the best three point shooters in basketball, and he has been for a while. And like not just Stan still spot ups off movement, off screens, He's ridiculous.
00:44:45
Speaker 2: He's second in the NBA in three.
00:44:47
Speaker 4: Pointers made and he's knocking down forty two and a half percent of them. He broke the Piston single season three pointers record like a couple weeks ago. I think he did it before the All Star breaks. So he's an incredible shooter. THHJ can spray threes at over thirty seven percent, So like, I think that they have a very respectable offensive situation. It's just we're talking about winning playoff series. And if it does come down to a playoff series, I think that teams are going to be hyper aggressive with CADE. I think that they are going to really challenge other guys to beat you with both a Sar and Duran, two non shooters on the floor. And Asar is a good playmaker and I think that he can be solid with four on threes, but that's not a great offensive situation to be in in my opinion, and again, I don't think the defense is good enough for that to be like a complete weapon in a playoff series. I do want to say Asar was awesome on Jason Tatum. I think he forced like turnovers on three straight possessions against him in the first quarter.
00:45:55
Speaker 2: His ability to.
00:45:56
Speaker 4: Pick pockets is crazy. He absolutely could be all defensive. He play enough games in the.
00:46:01
Speaker 1: Pick and roll two. He's really disruptive. Man, He's just he's enough.
00:46:03
Speaker 2: Monster.
00:46:04
Speaker 1: Him and him and a man are so fucking smart.
00:46:06
Speaker 2: Dude, He's a monster.
00:46:08
Speaker 4: It just comes down to the lack of high end skill alongside k the lack of creators. They have some really good shooters, they also have some non shooters who are playing big minutes, like you're just a team with the ceiling. But if they get Indiana, they have a chance in that series. I do think that they have a chance.
00:46:38
Speaker 2: Who's scoring big in the NBA this season? You are with all the new.
00:46:42
Speaker 4: Ways to get in on the action at DraftKings Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NBA. From monster slams to dishing the rock to cleaning the glass, get behind your favorite players and the prop bets you can make on DraftKings, the home of NBA player.
00:47:00
Speaker 1: Ready to place your first bet, Try betting on something simple like picking how many points your favorite player will have. Go to the Draftking sports Book app and make your pick. First timers, here's something special just for you New Draftking customers. Bet five dollars to get one hundred and fifty dollars in bonus bets.
00:47:16
Speaker 4: Instantly take it to the rack with DraftKings sports Book, Every point counts. Download the DraftKings Sportsbook app and use code nerds. That's code nerds for new customers to get one hundred and fifty dollars in bonus bets when you bet just five bucks only on DraftKings.
00:47:33
Speaker 2: The Crown is yours.
00:47:35
Speaker 3: Gambling problem called one eight hundred gambler in New York called eight seven seven eight hope and Why or text hope and why four six seven, three six nine. In Connecticut, help is available for a problem gambling called eight eight eight seven eight nine seven seven seven seven or visit CCPG dot org. Please play responsibly on behalf of Boothill Casino when resorting Kansas twenty one on over agent eligibility varies by jurisdiction, Void and Ontario. Bonus bets expire one hundred and sixty eight hours after ISSUEENS four. Editions and responsible gaming resources see dkang dot Co, slash audio.
00:48:12
Speaker 4: And also, like you were talking about, it's just incredible that we're having these conversations about Detroit right now considering where they were at last year, Like that is a huge win. I went back and rewatched the video that I made about Cade last year when people were ragging on him and I defended him. I was very happy with what I said, both about Caid long term and about the Pistons not being out on the Pistons, Like, yeah, it was brutal last year, but there were always signs of talent and opportunity for improvement.
00:48:41
Speaker 2: Shout out JB.
00:48:41
Speaker 4: Bickerstaff because he's really done a great job with this team, and them doing this without Ivy for half the year is also really impressive. I mean, they've played their best basketball without him. And of course shout out to Caid, who may end up being an All NBA player this year, like he's in those conversations at the very least. It's phenomenal. Congratulations Detroit fans. I don't want to be negative, but this is the standard that you're hell to.
00:49:06
Speaker 1: Now.
00:49:06
Speaker 2: This is what happens. You win a lot of games and the bar moves.
00:49:09
Speaker 1: So congratulations, Hey we can have shitting Detroit now, Carson.
00:49:13
Speaker 4: Bro this is what I'm saying. The Lions ended up not going down. How you wanted a little bit of a Jared Goof moment, But hell of a season. It's not every year you win fifteen games and now you got the Pistons trending upwards. Man, shout out to Detroit. Shout out, hive mind logan. I just want to shout out some dudes right now. I just want to shout out some dudes who haven't gotten enough attention because I made a video a few days ago about the top five most underrated stars, because I've been mapping out, like my top twenty five NBA players, and there were a handful of guys in there who I think maybe not everybody would have them here.
00:49:54
Speaker 2: These guys don't get talked about enough.
00:49:56
Speaker 4: And basically it was the usual guys who I glaze my dogs. But that got me thinking, let's take the stars out of it. Let's just talk about the most underrated non stars, so truly the most underrated players. Who do you think that guy or those guys have been this year.
00:50:16
Speaker 1: I've got a few names written down. One of them we just talked about. I just want to give him an additional shout out. Tobias Harris. He's twenty third in plus minus right now across the entire league. And I mean the majority of that list is like the you know, the obvious cant It's a lot of Boston players, it's a lot of Cleveland players, it's a lot of Oklahoma City players, a lot of Knicks players as well, And then Tobias Harris is on that list. He deserves a shout out. I just think because of how low people were on him after I mean, in a pretty atrocious year in Philadelphia. Or ask him, what does this guy even do well? It turns out you give him some responsibility, you let him do his thing, he can actually give you some good NBA minutes. The biggest guy I think it sticks out to me was a guy we were talking about we were shooting tiktoks the other day. I think it's big zoo man. I still don't know if people appreciate just how good of eatsa zubats Is. He has the twelfth highest true shooting percentage of any fifteen point per game score. He's nineteenth in plus minus in the NBA this year. He's a really good rim protector. He is a mammoth of a human being. He's a really good rebounder, and he's a phenomenal mismatch attacker on the offensive, and he's got great touch. Like I just think that Zoo is one of the most complete centers in basketball, and I may prefer him to even some of the maybe more high profile centers in the league. You know that have more name value.
00:51:39
Speaker 4: Like Opern Shngoon Logan, Did you say that today?
00:51:44
Speaker 1: I didn't they would rather have because.
00:51:46
Speaker 2: I was also thinking Zoo would be my answer.
00:51:50
Speaker 1: I don't even I'm not trying to be mean. I don't really think that one's particularly close for me.
00:51:56
Speaker 2: NBA All Star Opron Shngoon, I.
00:52:00
Speaker 1: Would take big Zoo is a problem.
00:52:02
Speaker 4: I would take Zoo man. I think that you hit the nail on the head, like there are certain traits that I just want from my big man if I am trying to build a contending team, because I think that there's a case that if you want somebody who can just raise your floor by being more of a post hub eating up more offensive volume, you're not a very talented good team, then you could want Shnggun And that's fine. But I'm always gonna view these questions through the lens of I'm trying to build a damn good team. Who do I want as my center? Who do I want on my roster? And Zoo does so many of those super valuable things. He's a damn good rim protector, holds opposing players ten percent below their average field goal percentage at the rim. He's just a better overall defender than Shehngguon. I mean, he's a significantly better rim protector, rebounder, and he's really been solid guarding in space this year. Shanguon has gotten better defensively, He's been very solid there. Zoo is just better then offensively. What do I want you to do well? I want you to rebound really well. He's an offensive rebounding monster. I want you to be very efficient. I want you to be a great play finisher out of pick and roll. Zoo is that he's an excellent finisher around the rim, super efficient, And then he also has as you said unbelievable touch, and I would like to have a guy who can bully and bruise you out of the post. I want a guy who can attack mismatches. I want a guy who is strong and huge for that playoff environment. Zoo shoots fifty eight percent on hook shots, man, and he takes more hooks than anybody else in the league. Like it is just an absurd weapon that he has with his touch, really only surpassed by Jolkic among centers. Shout out Jared Allen because he's working his way into those conversations as well. But Zoo's touch is unbelievable. So I just get this total combination of great post up, big, super efficient finisher, elite rebounder on both ends, really good defender, excellent rim protector, and a solid passer. Guy gives me fifteen twelve and a half and two and a half on over sixty two percent true shooting.
00:54:04
Speaker 2: That's what I want.
00:54:05
Speaker 1: That's what I want.
00:54:07
Speaker 4: Sheng Goon, He's just not been a good enough offensive player for me to justify taking him over a guy like Zoo who is going to do his various jobs on both ends at such an extremely high level. The efficiency with Shengun has just been brutal.
00:54:23
Speaker 2: I look this up today.
00:54:25
Speaker 4: In the twenty twenties, there have been seventy four seasons by a center in which they scored fifteen plus points per game. Shengon ranks seventy third of seventy four in both effective field goal percentage and true shooting percentage. It's rough, man, the touch is not there, the jumper hasn't developed at all, and Zoo can just physically assert himself more.
00:54:47
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, long, long term, I can see Sengoon being better than Big Zoo because there's a lot to work with there. That's why I mean. And you liked him as a prospect, right he had phenomenal footwork, he saw the flashes of it, really high guy on the low block. Yeah, like, there's a lot to like a bet Sengoon. But I think right now, Big Zoo's just more developed. And the bigger thing to me with Zoo is in the playoffs, you got to have a guy that connects him out like he is a problem when we're talking about matchups. If you don't have a mammoth sized, strong ass, dude, I'm sorry, Zoo is serving you buckets. Every single game in that series, and he's just gonna kill you. And honestly, the Clippers as a whole, I think kind of have this underrated collective of a lot of really good defenders and two high level offensive players. Another guy that I wrote down on here is Norman Powell. I mean, Powell has the ninth highest true shooting percentage of any fifteen point per game scorer this year, and Norman Powell just doesn't miss. So we have these stretches where he'll just knock out fifteen to twenty straight points and he hasn't missed a single shot. Like, Yeah, I think both of these Clippers are really really underrated. But if I had to single out a guy, dude, Big Zoo might be the most underrated. He might be the answer to this question. I just think he brings you such phenomenal value at that position, and there's no like glaring weaknesses to him. I guess the only thing you could say maybe is defending in space, but that's not really his job on this team.
00:56:11
Speaker 4: And he's been solid there this year. He's gotten better there. The contract with him also makes a real strong case for being the best in the league. Like he makes eleven point seven million this year, and then over the next three years he averages nineteen million a year like in today's NBA from a guy who is basically the perfect non star big. It's unbelievable. I think that he's better than Norm. I think he's more impactful because of the defensive value that you get with him, and Norm was at least getting All Star buzs. Norm has had a really, really good season, no doubt, but I do think that zoo Is.
00:56:48
Speaker 1: I think people just prefer the off I don't. Yeah, I feel like people adequately, like just appreciate defense and rebounding as much they're vitally important to winning basketball games.
00:56:59
Speaker 4: I agree, man, I think they're are a lot of underrated bigs just because, like, if you're a really impactful defensive big and you're a good offensive player, that means you're a super valuable over.
00:57:08
Speaker 1: I can't remember, I don't did you tweet that out or to one of our fans. Somebody said that, And I read that the other day where they said that they thought that was the most underappreciated archetype in basketball, and uh, I tend to agree.
00:57:20
Speaker 4: Well, I had my five most underrated stars and four of them were bigs in that archetype.
00:57:25
Speaker 1: I think that was a response. I think that was a response to to.
00:57:29
Speaker 4: That person because they cooked all of this to say, like I was expecting to say, Zoo is the most underrated player in basketball. Then I put out this poll in fifty nine percent of people said they'd rather have Zoo than Shanngoona, And like, I think I just got a lot of balloers who follow me. I don't think that's representative of like a full NBA fan sample, but I was still really surprised by that.
00:57:54
Speaker 2: Like I thought there would be.
00:57:54
Speaker 4: Some people being like, what are we doing here, as in like shannggoun is so much better because of the box score or whatever, But not the case. Man, so big Zoo is getting some love because of that. I'll shout out a few other guys. I think that there are a couple of Portland Trailblazers, super.
00:58:10
Speaker 2: Good winning wings. Denny of DIA, I think is just.
00:58:14
Speaker 4: Doing the same stuff that he did last year in Washington and like just doesn't get shined for it because the teams aren't good. Portland is obviously better. Portland's been very very competitive as of late, but he's giving you like fourteen six and four I think on fifty nine percent true shooting. He's a good driver, he gets to the line at a really good rate. He's a really good connective passer. And then he's also a good versatile defender. And then Tumani Kamara I actually think has been getting a lot of love as of late, so I can't say that he's underrated anymore. But he is just a defensive monster who's been really solid offensively this year. I think DFS would be up there, probably still is, but the fact that he's a Laker, it's hard to truly be underrated as a Laker. But we've just been raving about him. I mean, like just sub all defense level and a really good spot at the shooter he is. He is in the on off impact plus fifteen on the year, crazy, he's super good. And then Tray Murphy saveraging twenty two to five and four on sixty one percent true shooting, like really really impressive production and efficiency.
00:59:24
Speaker 2: A lot of it is.
00:59:25
Speaker 4: Still just on the back of the fact that he has got the fucking strap, but also like he's grown as a passer, He's gotten better in terms of getting downhill and getting to the line. So he's had a really, really impressive season. Those were the dudes who stood out to me. But it's interesting that we both had Zoo. I mean that probably means that he's deserved. But what if we're all going around just thinking that Zoo was underrated, but actually everybody thinks that Zoo is a stud? Because I think that might be happening because Jason texted me right after Jason tim for our friend, I tweeted it and he said I'd take Zoo, So maybe we know.
01:00:03
Speaker 1: Does I understand it now?
01:00:06
Speaker 2: I mean, there's been a Zoo revolution and I love it.
01:00:09
Speaker 1: I hope, so, man, I've I really appreciate what big Zoo does. Man, A lot of those you just there's a lot of those big, dirty work guys. Man, they don't they don't get the love they need. But we're here to show it to a year I had.
01:00:20
Speaker 4: It's always been crazy that Zoo hasn't just played more to me before this year, uh huh. Like the fact that he was always just like a twenty six minutes per game guy, get him thirty two.
01:00:29
Speaker 1: He ball was way more impactful than that. I had a couple other guys written out, a couple of foreign wings. You mentioned one Laker, h Roy Hachimura has just been playing excellent basketball this season. He just he's so good offensively. And I know you've always been a big fan, but I really think you've seen him blossom this year with more offensive talent around him. I think the elimination of D'Angelo Russell from this team, you know, him getting more touches naturally, but now the infusion of Luca has just made his job all that much easier. And I think this is an ideal role for him where he can really flourish. And then the other guy I had written down here is Santi Aldama. I just think Aldama he has so many good little things for your basketball team. High IQ guy, great positioning. It always feels like he's in the right spot or in the right uh right spot to make a play. And he's a really good decision maker, good shooter, good defender, good rebounder, can put the ball on the floor a little bit. I really like Aldama's game, and I think he's a really good role player. But yeah, I think these conversations are fun. Man. You know, a lot of the stars always take a lot of the shine man. It takes takes ten. Takes ten guys to win a basketball game. Normally playoffs a little shorter net, but they deserve some love.
01:01:39
Speaker 4: We're Nerd sash Man. We gotta get down and talk about the role guys. We're Nerd sash Of course we're gonna have a double chunk chocolate cookie. I'm gonna shot at another Memphis Grizzly because Luke Cunard is quietly on pace to lead the league and three point percentage for the third time. Bro, is he over fifty forty seven and for his career he's over forty four percent?
01:02:02
Speaker 1: Like he didn't? I heard, Yeah, I was listening on a broadcast the other night, and I think they said that he's Is he just second behind Steve Kerr?
01:02:11
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's just behind Steve Kerr. I think he's edging out Hubert Davis, Hubert Davis unc legend.
01:02:21
Speaker 2: I love the Rui shout.
01:02:22
Speaker 4: He's a really, really good offensive player. I've been saying that DFS needs to start over him. I still think DFS should start over him. But offensively, Ruy is so good and he's been bought in defensively, but just like a lights out shooter this year and one of the best cutting wings in basketball. I've always loved that about his game. His instincts there are so good, so good.
01:02:47
Speaker 2: So shout out to all of these guys.
01:02:48
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm sure that there's some more who we could rattle off, but I think that those were all good selections who he shouted out. Let's flip hard Logan form being these rays of positivity and sunlight? Did you just being absolute haters? I've just been thinking about the state of specifically a couple teams around the league and how truly catastrophic it is, and these teams are having a particularly hard time right now, and I just felt like we needed to talk about it. Which team should feel the worst about this season that they have had this year?
01:03:24
Speaker 1: Logan? You know, Carson, I thought this was gonna be just a no brainer.
01:03:28
Speaker 2: This dude got a hoodie and a hat on. I just noticed you got a hoodie and a hat on. Let's see that, bald nogging bro, what are you hiding? I see it.
01:03:37
Speaker 1: I can't take the hood off today, fair enough?
01:03:40
Speaker 2: You have a little guy under there? Is there a little guy rested on your head? Is that what it is.
01:03:44
Speaker 1: I got a little rat under my head, but instead of instead of pulling on my hair, he smacks the buttons on my head to control me.
01:03:50
Speaker 4: So I thought maybe he was your take, man, Maybe he was the brains of this whole operation. And there's somebody under it's gottomically large lump from when I hit you with that oversized mallet.
01:03:59
Speaker 2: The day is coming out of the top of your head.
01:04:02
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I figure it's a real ratitudey situation going on right now. Man. M hm uh. You know, I thought it was gonna be like the biggest no brainer answer of all time. And I was just gonna come out here and say the seventy six ers. But in a way, I have a little bit of sympathy for the Philadelphia seventy six ers, right, like Paul George and his unforeseen injury struggles. Right, I would have still paid Paul George, and I still expect him to bounce back a little bit. Embiid and his injury concerns. We always know it's just you gotta pray and cross your fingers and hope that he isn't gonna go down with a big injury, right, And so I have a little bit of sympathy because a lot of that has to do with injuries. The team I don't have sympathy for in a team that I think deserves to be here is the Phoenix Suns. There's no team that I would feel worse about all things considered, Yeah, the decisions that you have made that have led you up to the spot that you're in, but more importantly, all the assets in capital that you have invested in this win now window that just doesn't exist. It's not even window. It's not you know, we use all these different championship I said, the Oklahoma City's got a garage door. The Warriors have a window. The Suns don't even have like a peep hole. You know, they don't even have. It doesn't exist.
01:05:14
Speaker 4: That they're trapped in the basement and they're chained up.
01:05:17
Speaker 1: Locked away. It just doesn't exist. And I would just take notes if you're a prospective owner or a team that wants a guy that wants to own a team and make some big moves. I just think Matt Ishbia thought that it was gonna be way simpler up than it was and trying to get KD and trying to get it doesn't work man. You've got to build a cohesive roster top to bottom, and this team just doesn't have enough. And there's just no future for them. They're gonna be really bad, and they gonna be really bad for a long time. And guess what, They're not gonna have Devin Bookers. They're not gonna have Kevin Durant. They might have Bradley Beal. There's no future for this team. This is gonna be the one of the worst teams in basketball, I think for the next five to ten years after they lose these two stars, and they're already well on their way there. I just bad for the Phoenix Suns fan base. We know a lot of them, Carson because we used to live out in Arizona. It's a loyal group. It is a It's a group that was there when the Sons were great with Steve Nash and those great Sons teams, and they supported them, and they supported them through the down years when Devin Booker was a young buck, and it was really electric when we were living in the city and this team was good and going to the NBA Finals. That's gone. It's over. It's over for Phoenix and there's just no like a lot of these teams, man, I can say there's a silver lining, right even with like the Hornets of the Wizards. I can go, hey, man, you guys got some young stars that I like, I really hate that I have to dress it up this way. But I don't think there's anything to be optimistic about with the Phoenix Suns.
01:06:45
Speaker 2: There isn't.
01:06:46
Speaker 4: I think that they are the choice here. The Sixers make a strong case because this season really is catashock for them, and you can't just write off the injuries and say, oh, well, that's the problem this year, because this is really really concerning what's going on with MB Like we are talking about persistent knee pain and swelling. He is about to be thirty one years old in just a couple of weeks. They're reportedly exploring some quote radical procedures to address this situation. Like that's about as concerning news as you can have as a franchise for the guy who is your superstar. And also, he looked bad when he played this year, which is probably just a product of him not being one hundred percent comfortable and healthy. But all of that is bad and Paul George, I think a lot of this regression is permanently. Maybe he's slightly hampered by a lingering injury, but I think he's just incapable of getting to the rim now. He just seems to have fallen off a cliff a lot of times. His presence just isn't that noticeable. He hasn't been anything close to a star this year. And he's thirty four, and they paid him two hundred and twelve million dollars, and now they've lost nine straight. They're twenty and thirty eight, and they are hilariously on pace to land the seventh pick, which is the highest possible pick that they could get, and still have it go to the Thunder because their pick is top six protected this year. So if that happens, man, I mean, that is an f season when you were thinking, we've got our big three, we're gonna try to contend this year, and instead you like entirely miss the play in and don't even get your own pick, and you have major, major concerns about two of your three building blocks.
01:08:34
Speaker 1: So if it's top seven, it goes to Oklahoma City.
01:08:37
Speaker 2: If it's top six, the Sixers keep it.
01:08:41
Speaker 4: If it's seven through thirty, the Thunder got it, and right now it would be seven.
01:08:47
Speaker 1: I guess the lottery's going to decide all that. Man that's rough.
01:08:50
Speaker 4: He probably is gonna come down to the lottery, which is a really really bad place to be in for the Sixers. I still think that the Suns are worse because, like you said, I mean the injuries, they are very concerning for the Sixers, but at least they're kind of an excuse really, the Mbat injury, even though they haven't been good when Mbid has played, but you can look and you can say, hey, Tyrese Maxey has been really good. Like the efficiency isn't great, but considering the circumstances you saw, and he's averaging twenty seven plus a game, he's awesome.
01:09:21
Speaker 1: You lost Jared McCain too, you know, so like, well.
01:09:25
Speaker 4: Very very true. McCain will be back. Got to give a little bit of love to Gershan Yabusela the Dancing Bear. Like there are at least some little positives for them, Maxie and McCain. That's the big one. They have something going forward. They have two really really good young guards.
01:09:42
Speaker 1: Also, did you hear that report that came out. I think it just happened before the pod about the Suns and budenholes.
01:09:48
Speaker 2: Or No reportedly rioting.
01:09:52
Speaker 1: Reportedly, Budenholeser said something to Devin Booker about being less vocal.
01:09:57
Speaker 2: I did see that.
01:09:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't I really know exactly what that means, but it was really strange.
01:10:05
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, their vibes are at an all time low. And I don't blame them because there's no lifeboat here, man, I mean, there's no way off. They are just on a mind cart that is headed straight off a cliff. Dude, Like, if you were to try to say anything to defend this season, it would be the fact that when book and Katie play together, the Sons are actually twenty four and sixteen this year, but they're three and fifteen when they're missing either one of them, which to me just speaks to the abomination of a roster that they've put around those dudes, that you are one of the worst teams in the league, even with one of these really really good star basketball players on the floor.
01:10:44
Speaker 1: I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, Carson, I don't think this team owns Oh they don't.
01:10:49
Speaker 2: Have their own first round pick through twenty thirty one.
01:10:52
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, they are either dealing it away out right, or they are on the wrong end of a swap every single year. They also have the highest payroll in the entire NBA by a good bit by over twelve million dollars. And of course they have another two full years of Bradley Beal with a no trade clause at fifty plus million dollars a year. And they're just a bad basketball team. They've lost ten of twelve. They lost to the Blazers twice in that stretch. They lost to the Spurs without Wemby, they lost to the Rafters, they lost to the Pelicans. They are fucked to an extent that we have not seen since like maybe Brooklyn the twenty tens nets that's the only comparison. This might be worse, though, because the pick drought goes on for even longer and they're tied up even more financially in a guy who you desperately do not want to be tied up in a.
01:11:45
Speaker 1: Bradley untradeable contract.
01:11:47
Speaker 4: It's untradeable now Brooklyn, obviously, I mean they were in a terrible, terrible spot and they had to trade away multiple top three picks, didn't get to benefit from being one.
01:11:58
Speaker 1: Also, for worse that Boston hit on all those picks.
01:12:02
Speaker 4: And Boston hit. Obviously they get Jason Tatum and Jylen Brown out of it, so.
01:12:07
Speaker 2: That was truly horrible.
01:12:09
Speaker 4: But this is at least as bad because there's no way out of it, and there's nothing that can be done around booking Kdie. Like a lot of people thought that Tias Jones was gonna be the answer. It was never about a pure point guard. I thought early in the year, maybe if you get your defensive athletes out there more Royce O'Neill and if Ryan Dunn can be decent offensively, you can be better. That obviously has not been the case at all. They've been twenty seventh in defensive raiding. Bradley Beal just cannot possibly work with these two. You cannot be paying basically an entire roster in terms of cap just to those three players who don't work together. You can't even produce an elite offense because of their skill set redundancies. It's an all time disaster. So the only possible path for that after this season, to me, obviously, Katie has to be traded. That is a complete no brainer. I am hitting the Houston Rockets line over and over again. And I'm saying, just take Devin Booker. We will get our picks back, and we'll just hard reset this thing.
01:13:15
Speaker 1: Give me a player, give me some of my picks back, and we'll move on. You guys, go compete for a.
01:13:19
Speaker 4: Title, because if you trade book anywhere else, like, yeah, you can get a really good Hault, but you're not gonna benefit from sucking. But I think that a hard rebuild is the only possible option at this point. A hard rebuild, I guess with Bradley Beal still on the roster, or maybe once the other two are gone, he'll finally say, okay, just send me anywhere else.
01:13:39
Speaker 1: I guess. So miserable they got to see the writing on the wall.
01:13:42
Speaker 2: Man, they have to.
01:13:44
Speaker 4: I do think that Ishbia has not been good for them, and they have been trying to salvage a situation that was doomed for several years. And this is something that I've said repeatedly. The situation that they were in when they made the KD trade was a really hard one because you're a year removed from a sixty four win season, you're two years removed from an NBA Finals appearance. You feel like you absolutely should be in the mix in contending and you're not. But the reality is Chris Paul had regressed at that point. DeAndre Ayton had regressed at that point in that took them out of the position they were in as a contending team.
01:14:26
Speaker 2: And so.
01:14:28
Speaker 4: Like they just weren't nearly as close as they thought that they were, and Katie didn't get them to the place that they thought they should have been at. And then when they finally did trade Chris Paul and they got Bradley Beal, like that was them taking on a really bad oversized contract because they had another bad oversized contract on an aging, declining player. Like, they've just made a lot of desperate moves in a situation that was beyond saving and it's only gotten uglier and worse. And if they don't bail, if they don't jump ship after this year, then like, I'm just so sorry, Sons fans, because you can't keep this up. Any change would be welcome at this point. I know that Sons fans will not want to part ways with Devin Booker, but like, for the well being of your franchise, you probably should.
01:15:16
Speaker 1: You Gotta bite the bullet, man.
01:15:18
Speaker 4: Gotta bite the bullet, Hey, That's what I said when we had Jason on the other week and you asked whose future I would rather have between the sun, and he said.
01:15:26
Speaker 2: I'll take a bullet to the head.
01:15:28
Speaker 4: The only other team that you can maybe argue is in this conversation is the Pelicans, just because they expected to be a playoff team and they've been one of the worst teams in the league. But obviously that's mostly injuries. Dejante Murray is not good and they should definitely regret that trade. That was a mistake, but they got a little sumback for Bi and per thirty six, Zion is averaging thirty one nine and a half and six on fifty nine percent for shooting, he has been better than ever as a passer, his touch.
01:15:56
Speaker 1: The Pelicans, you know, at least have some of their picks over the.
01:15:58
Speaker 4: Next seven And that's the big thing, dude. What if they get Cooper Flag. If the Pelicans get Cooper Flag, then this year could be a blessing in disguise.
01:16:10
Speaker 2: One percent worth it.
01:16:11
Speaker 4: And I've decided that's the outcome I want to see most because healthy Zion just fires me up so much. I want to see him with another monster wing who can really succeed alongside anyone.
01:16:24
Speaker 2: Man well that would also be sick.
01:16:27
Speaker 4: That would also be sick. Yeah, I mean that would literally be perfect.
01:16:31
Speaker 1: Imagine that. I could imagine Cooper flag anywhere on so that guy just works.
01:16:35
Speaker 4: He'd work anywhere I want him to go and help another superstar talent, though, especially because I think so much of his skill set is the kind of guy where it's like he can be your best player, but he's not going to be your offensive. Alongside Wenby, he would not be their best player, but alongside Zion, long term, he could be their best player and their offensive number two, and that's perfect for him.
01:16:56
Speaker 1: I look at him like, I think Cooper could be like ad Jason Tatum kind of player where he just impacts every fast of the game, and I can honestly see a similar trajectory for Cooper. He probably won't be as effective as a scorer as Tatum was immediately, but I can definitely see him eventually getting to the spot where Tatum is at now, where he's an elite rebound or an elite defender, a really good playmaker, and yeah, a really good scorer as well. I just I love his all around skill set.
01:17:22
Speaker 4: I don't expect him to reach that level as a score. Can't rule it out. I do think that he'll score in the twenties. I don't know about the high twenties, but he's certainly much further ahead as a passer than Tatum was. And he should absolutely be a better defender. I mean, he should just be like all defense a year over year with the combination of perimeter and interior values. So put that in anywhere and it's gonna be awesome. But especially if he could save Zion Williamson, that would make me happy. And they need to like just miraculously summon a talent that good on a deal that cheap because they're tied up in dudes like Dejon and CJ. Who it's just not great, not great. The situation they were in not great, but not as catastrophic as what we're getting from the Sixers and above everybody else, the Phoenix Suns logan around to applause for the Phoenix Suns for being in the worst position not just of any team in the NBA right now, but that we have seen in quite some time. On that cheery note, is there anything else you want to say before we get out of here, Logan nas Reed, I knew you were gonna say nas Reed. I knew you were gonna say naz Reed. Shout out to nas Reed, shout out.
01:18:34
Speaker 1: Shout out Rob Dillingham, Shout out Terrence Shannon Junior bro.
01:18:37
Speaker 2: Terren Shannon Jr. Hooped yesterday. He hooped.
01:18:40
Speaker 4: Had to because they threw out of the game. See you officials were wild and in that Timberwolves Lakers game. The podcast is over now, Everybody go check us out. Listen to the pod on YouTube. Check out our video essays on YouTube. Listen to the pod across all audio platforms. Check us out on TikTok, Instagram, at s, Twitter, at nerd, Underscore Sesh, see graphics from the show, clips from the show, and all of our short form trivia content. You can also join our discord if you want to become part of our community. There to chat with the gang. That is linked at the link tree that has across our social media bios. And you can check out our merch if you want. That is also at our link tree and at breakingte dot com. So that as always appreciate you guys.
01:19:22
Speaker 2: I've been Carson Braber, I
01:19:23
Speaker 1: Have been Logan Camden and this was nerd Sash
