Episode 15: Peter Benjamin, President of ACUMA

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Welcome to Mortgage Tech Intelligence, the podcast that dives into the latest in mortgage technology brought to you by Blue Sage Solutions.
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For more resources and insights, visit BlueSageSolutions.com.
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Now let's get started with your host, Ed Furby.
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Good morning.
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Welcome to the next installment of the Mortgage Tech Intelligence Podcast for Blue Sage Solutions.
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We talk to lenders and leaders across the mortgage technology mortgage lending space about the trends, technology, and ideas shaping the future of lending.
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Uh I'm Joey McDuffie for all the folks that don't know, sales and marketing SVP at Blue Sage.
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And today we're actually turning our focus to credit unions.
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Uh from all across the country to exchange ideas, you know, build relationships, et cetera.
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It's always a fantastic conference with lots of great speakers, ideas, and relationship building that really, uh, you know, in my opinion, I'm not just saying because Peter's on here, it doesn't really happen in a lot of other conferences.
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Joining me today is Peter Benjamin, president of Acuma.
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Uh and for anybody that doesn't know, stands for the American Credit Union Mortgage Association.
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Uh and Peter actually has a unique perspective on what credit unions and what mortgages are together, right?
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He's also a CMB, just to throw that out there.
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Took a lot of hard work to do that.
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I've been thinking about doing mine, Peter, but you know, there's lots lots of work to put in.
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And there's plenty to talk about after this year's conference.
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So, you know, well uh welcome to the Mortgage Tech Intelligence Podcast, Peter.
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No, Joey, thank you very much.
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And uh you know, I appreciate you having me on.
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And you know, I uh from the bottom of my heart, I wish you nothing but continued success and and thank you for your support of Acuma and looking forward to our conversation.
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Awesome.
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Well, I thought we would kind of you know start with a wrap-up of of kind of what we heard, what happened, you know, at Acuma.
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And you know, again, we're in the technology space, Peter, but I think one of the big things, and we'll get to technology later, but one of the big things that I know all the member credit unions really like about Acuma is the advocacy piece, right?
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What you know, what do you guys do from an advocacy advocacy piece, you know, perspective to help credit unions kind of fight the fight uh in the mortgage space?
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And uh, you know, what what did you hear at this year's conference?
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Well, Joey, you know, thank you very much for starting off you know with that that question.
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You know, admittedly, you know, our advocacy platform, for lack of better words, or framework, didn't really start until you know this year.
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Um, you know, this it's really been uh I don't want to say a long time coming, but it it's most certainly been something that I have been working on pretty diligently for the past year and a half, trying to build somewhat of a catalog of information uh for our members to use, but also go out to our members to get a better understanding of you know what's important to them.
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You know, at our annual conference, we really officially launched that our advocacy platform where we announced our our our first ever advocacy day next next March, um, you know, which is gonna be a great opportunity for our our members to you know have an to hike the hill and learn and have that experience.
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You know, but for me, you know, I I think you know, you you asked like you know a multi-part question, but you know, one of the things that that took me by surprise is you know when when we s when I sat down with my board and and we were really you know going back and forth on whether or not whether on whether or not it was the right time for Askima to take this step.
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And that's that's a step towards advocacy.
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You know, we the question kept popping up, you know, is it needed or will our members you know welcome this idea?
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And and I I I will say this, you know, it just from the the individual conversations that I have I've had at that event, but even more so outside the event, I I I couldn't be more excited, you know, and I hate to say a little surprised about such a the warm welcome to the idea of hey, this is important now.
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We have to we have to speak our voice.
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If we don't tell our story, someone else will.
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Right.
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And you know, it I don't want to say it caught me by surprise, but it did because again, in the back of my mind, I'm thinking, you know, this is a risk we're gonna take, right?
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It's needed, you know.
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As you mentioned, I have my C and B and you know it's part of that C and B process.
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They kind of you know beat it, beat it into your head that, hey, you have to understand the policy priorities.
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Right, right.
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And and my concern was, hey, you know, you know, we're credit unions, right?
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We we have ACU, and ACU does a great job.
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You know, how will Acuma fill this void of of speaking up for mortgage lenders?
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So I mean, I think that that was such a great and pleasant surprise to have that, you know, I I'm really I couldn't be more geeked up about next March and our advocacy event.
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I think it's gonna be something really special for our members.
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Uh, but you know, not only that, I I think for it to be the the the first one for us to to have, it's gonna be I mean, Joey, you you've attended enough of our events, and and I like to think that you know me.
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You know, I always have a trick up my sleeve, and so it's gonna be something pretty awesome for those those first time uh attendees uh to come to that event.
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Yeah, that's that's fantastic, Peter.
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Yeah.
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When I heard that y'all were doing that, I mean, I, you know, it's you know, y'all have approached a lot of topics.
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We've had a lot of regulatory topics over the last few years, as we all know.
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And uh, you know, the advocacy piece was something that I think I think the voice of the the credit union needs to be heard, to be honest with you.
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So I think that that's it's fantastic that y'all are doing that.
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Um, you know, I hope for great participation in that.
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And uh, you know, that it's it's you know, NBA has been doing it for a long time.
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So I think that Acuma can uh can can lead uh you know lend another voice to that that conversation.
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And I and I agree.
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And and and you know, I and you know, MBA you know does such an amazing job on mortgage advocacy and ACU, like I already said, does an amazing job on credit union advocacy.
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You know, where we're hoping to really kind of fill that gap is that that bridge in between, right?
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Acuma lives in this little teeny tiny corner of both industries.
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You know, one, you know, if you think about credit union, we're that little corner of mortgage lending.
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And when you think about you know mortgage lending, we're that little corner of credit unions where we we kind of intersect and overlap.
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You know, our first stance and our first approach isn't gonna be, you know, beating the drum on any specific issue.
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Yeah, we're gonna start forming opinions at some point in time, but really this is just about us going to DC, walking the hill, and telling the credit union story, but more specifically, the credit union mortgage lenders story.
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That's great.
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I think that's it.
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And then it's really just a message to you know, every lawmaker and policymaker out there saying, hey, you know, banks and I and Bs, you know, that you know, they they do they lend to more, you know, their various communities and they do a great job.
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But hey, don't forget about credit unions as well.
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Uh, you know, in my opinion, I have no problem saying this.
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Credit unions are the are the last best hope when it comes to community-based lending.
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You know, it's it's you know, you know, that last best hope thing is almost like Luke Skywalker, you know, but it's like my saying that I went down this Star Wars path.
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Um, but it but it's true, right?
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I I believe in the credit union movement, and I I think us being able to just tell the story, uh, I'm hoping that we can get a few of these policymakers to start turning heads and looking our way for advice.
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That's awesome.
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That's great.
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That's great, Peter.
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You know, you know, one of the things, you know, kind of talking about prioritization of mortgages and credit unions, you know, some do, some don't, you know, and and and really, you know, I come from a mortgage background as well.
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And it's it's surprising to to me to see some that are really making it a strategic priority, you know, while others are just kind of you know trying to learn more about it.
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You know, it's this it's this really complex product, you know, a car loan, a credit card is a lot easier to to master than a mortgage, as we all know, with all of the regulatory volatility we've experienced since 2008 and before that, right?
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So, you know, I think, you know, why should it matter to the broader community and mortgage you know of credit unions to focus on mortgage?
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And you know, what happens if they don't, you know, when a member decides to go to a you know I and B or bank, like you mentioned, you know, what you know, what what's your what are your thoughts there, Peter?
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You know, I I one, I I I love this question.
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And it it was a a point of conversation for not just one, but several of our sessions at annual.
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I even actually spoke on a panel at another event where this this was the topic itself, you know, you know, why mortgage and and how mortgage can help really be the cornerstone of uh of any you know credit union.
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And when I think about it, right?
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I mean, let's think about you know how banks and credit unions were originally founded.
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You know, well, credit unions date back to 1935 and sorry, credit unions date back to 1935, and banks date back even further, right?
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You know, I you know, it's almost like you learned this in in high school and college that when you look at the structure of any financial institution, you know, you have certain cornerstones that support them, right?
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You have deposits, you have residential lending, and you have commercial lending, right?
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Somewhere along the way, you know, consumer lending, you know, auto loans, credit cards, you know, that that became one of the cornerstones.
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But fundamentally, you know, mortgage has always been at you know the foundation and the main support of growing a financial institution, right?
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Somewhere along the way, we lost sight of that.
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And I don't know what, you know, it I don't know where it happened.
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You know, maybe it was the Great Recession, maybe that started it.
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And you know, going back to you know 2017, maybe that started us rethinking how we approach mortgage lending because of the risk that can occur with improper underwriting.
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Or maybe it was you know the results of you know the the volume spike of you know the refi boom as a result of COVID.
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I don't know.
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Right.
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But but this is what I will say is that you know when you look at credit unions, and and and we had credit unions ranging anywhere from the biggest of big to some that you would be you would be shocked they're actually originating mortgages at our conference, right?
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And they they all when when you look at it, they all do something different and something special, but there's one thing that that remains unique to them.
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They they don't view mortgage as a product or a service, right?
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It is part of their core mission, it's part of who they are as a lending institution.
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And I think that's where we what what we ultimately are.
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We are lending institutions.
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You know, when we when we go around to these different conferences, and Joey, I know you do the same.
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I'm sure you've heard a credit union talk about generational wealth, right?
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Or being their credit union for life.
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You know, well, my res my response to that is always gonna be, well, you know, if if you're not focused on mortgage, how are you actually gonna help them build generational wealth?
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That's it.
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You're not you're not gonna do that with credit card.
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You're not gonna do that with auto.
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Nope.
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Mortgage is the way you build generational wealth.
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I mean, let's think about you know our our economy right now, right?
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You know, in and inflation and just even the cost of goods, you know, without getting going into numbers, you know, I I I've really been fatuated with the idea of, okay, the best investment that's that an individual can make right now is real estate, right?
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You know, stock market aside, you know, CDs and and and for you know, all that stuff aside, mortgage is still going to be the best return on investment, or real estate's gonna be the best return on investment that an individual can make.
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And the only way we can support that is by doubling down on mortgage and and helping us, helping every member in our communities fulfill the dream of homeownership.
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Right.
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You know, when you when you look at the average credit union and and you and you think and you break it down and you say, okay, well, based off our members, their members, you know, for of those members that are, we'll say 18 and above, have a steady job, and you know, in theory should be at that home buying age, what percentage of our members actually has a mortgage with us?
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Right.
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The average credit union is around 3%, right?
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I know.
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That's that's a horrible number.
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Right.
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It's if if we could just double that, you know, I mean, what what would that look like from a volume perspective of the credit union space, right?
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Well, I mean, uh I mean we'll we'll go from you know six six to nine percent market share easily to twenty percent market share, right?
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Exactly, exactly.
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You know, some credit unions are are pushing 10%, you know, um you know loans, uh loans to members, but again, some are also at 1%.
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If we're at 3%, right, it's we have to we have such a large amount of work to do to have mortgage be part of the regular conversation.
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And and the last thing I must say is, you know, when it comes to this, you know, it's this is something I truly believe in that if we want to see success and we want to grow mortgage, we we have to stop, like I already said, we have to stop looking at it as a product.
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But but to take that to the next level, you have to stop tying incentives, organizational incentives, to product growth, right?
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Right, right.
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You need to tie it to household growth.
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Right.
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Meaning good point.
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If if an individual has a share savings account with us and they have a checking account with us, fantastic, right?
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We we're growing our deposits.
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Okay, well, does that individual have a mortgage with us?
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Do they have a credit card with us?
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Do they have a home equity with us?
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That's an example of us targeting a family and becoming truly becoming their primary financial institution through a household growth plan.
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Right, right.
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So yeah, and I mean, yeah, increasing that wallet share and the number of products per household, I think should be the primary focus.
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And uh and I again, what I've seen, Peter, and it's just I think some folks are hesitant about the all the regulatory, you know, blockades, the complexity, folks out in the branches, you know, and I think, you know, I think the educational piece of the puzzle that y'all bring to the table really is a benefit to all the members of Acuma.
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And it's just about you know prioritizing that uh, you know, mortgage is a game changer from a relationship perspective.
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You know, when you were talking about real estate, that sounded like my father whenever I was growing up, right?
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You know, that's where the you know you need to buy a house.
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Well, you know, I need to save up a down payment.
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But that was a that was a priority of mine.
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And you know, like most families, that's the American dream, right?
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To to own a house, right?
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So I think that that's where the you know the relationships that credit unions build with their members can be you know to their advantage, be used to their advantage.
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And you know, I think that that's really something uh, you know, when I actually got into the credit union space, you know, from a technology perspective, I was very surprised to hear the 3% rate.
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I'm like, how can we as an organization, should we as a technology company help them market better?
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Right?
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What's the secret sauce for the ones that are at seven, eight percent, you know, or ten percent, right?
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There's there's gotta be either it's either a prioritization, focus, marketing, you know, text messaging, you know, you know, how how are they actually kind of penetrating those different segments and you know, and and what's the secret sauce?
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And you know, I know that there's always you know sessions on this at almost every Acuma, because that's what the that's what the mortgage folks there are looking for.
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And I don't know if you have anything else to follow up there or with that's you know any success stories or whatever, but that to me, that's one of the biggest surprises when I got into the when we got into the to the credit union space as to how do we double that.
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That's been in the back of my mind for for for a couple years at least, Peter.
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So I mean, I you know, I think tech that technology most certainly does play a huge part of it, right?
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Sure.
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You know, technology m is is you're able to provide a service that the modern member, modern borrower wants, right?
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And the only way to be able to provide that service to them is with technology.
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The tough part is when you look at the you know, credit unions and we'll just focus on lending, right?
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You said it earlier, it's a lot easier to originate an auto loan and a credit card and a consumer loan than it is a mortgage, right?
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So they're gonna take so the the best way to grow your portfolio is the path of least resistance, right?
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Yeah, you know, more the mortgage is more heavily regulated, it's a more difficult loan to originate.
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Um, but not only that, going back to technology, you can originate consumer loans and online loans from any core system, any you know, deposit system out there.
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Whereas mortgage, we are treated like a completely different animal.
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And because of that, there is a fear or hesitation to investing in the one product that could save a credit union, and that is mortgage.
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Right, right.
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I totally agree.
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So we kind of touched on a little bit, you know, since we are a technology provider, I wanted to kind of shift to technology and we've kind of both started you know around technology.
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There's lots of benefits for credit unions.
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I know that uh when a couple of credit unions you know uh transferred their origination process over to Blue Sage, you know, the biggest thing was the member experience.
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You know, credit unions are very focused on the member experience.
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And and now that AI has come into the picture, you know, I I think honestly, I think the AI session you guys had at Acuma was probably the most well attended.
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If it wasn't, I mean, again, you probably already have the numbers.
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I basically could barely get in the door.
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So AI and technology is always at the forefront of credit unions.
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And what do you think are some of the biggest opportunities for credit unions to embrace you know AI innovation, you know, you know, going forward?
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And you know, I think that again, I think there's some that are more apt to do that.
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Others are more traditional in their thinking that they want to, you know, they're very conservative in their approach.
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You know, don't use my member data for any training, all those types of things.
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But the, you know, as we kind of go out and approach credit unions, there there is a lot of interest to help streamline their process and and really go back to that same theme of how do we provide the best member experience ultimately is what their what the goal is.
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If that makes sense.
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No, it does.
00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:41.359
You know, and I love this question because in you kind of in your line of questioning, you you kind of almost hit the the the nail on the head, right?
00:18:41.359 --> 00:18:52.160
Yeah, you have you have some credit unions that are are so forward thinking that the idea of bringing on AI is such a no-brainer to them, right?
00:18:52.160 --> 00:18:54.960
And they they're seeing such great success with that.
00:18:54.960 --> 00:19:02.400
But on the other hand, you have credit unions that just are constantly overthinking the process.
00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:14.799
And because they are overthinking the process and and and vendor management and the idea of risk that now you're just now you're just getting in in your own way, you're preventing progress.
00:19:14.799 --> 00:19:20.480
Not only that, you are are hindering your organization's ability to grow.
00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:23.759
You know, AI is a fantastic tool.
00:19:23.759 --> 00:19:34.720
I mean, you know, I don't use AI like a lender would use AI, but at any given time, I probably have four different AI apps open up at the same time.
00:19:34.720 --> 00:19:42.160
Like, and I'll I'll just I have co-pilot, I have chat sheet, I have plaud, you know, it I mean, you name it.
00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:46.000
Like, if it's not making my life easier, I have six people on staff.
00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:49.839
I need something to help me make my life easier.
00:19:49.839 --> 00:19:53.119
And I'm gonna relate that back to mortgage lending and credit unions.
00:19:53.119 --> 00:19:54.880
That's what AI should be used for.
00:19:54.880 --> 00:19:57.119
Make our lives easier.
00:19:57.119 --> 00:19:58.799
Why pay an underwriter?
00:19:58.799 --> 00:20:08.079
And I'm just gonna throw out a random number, $100,000, six figures for them to go manually enter an employer's address, right?
00:20:08.079 --> 00:20:09.039
There's no need.
00:20:09.039 --> 00:20:09.599
Exactly.
00:20:09.599 --> 00:20:10.079
No need.
00:20:10.079 --> 00:20:10.400
Right?
00:20:10.400 --> 00:20:10.799
Right.
00:20:10.799 --> 00:20:13.759
Whereas AI could do that for them, right?
00:20:13.759 --> 00:20:14.480
That's right.
00:20:14.480 --> 00:20:22.240
You know, why why worry about a Excel spreadsheet QA process?
00:20:22.240 --> 00:20:29.759
Because you know there are credit units that still do that, and the QA process probably takes three hours on one loan.
00:20:29.759 --> 00:20:44.559
Why have that when you could, you know, attach it to AI, run it for about 10 minutes, run a QA check for 10 minutes, and have a QA specialist validate it for another 10 minutes and spend 20 minutes total versus three hours?
00:20:44.559 --> 00:20:47.039
What what why are we not doing that?
00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:47.440
Right.
00:20:47.440 --> 00:20:47.759
Right.
00:20:47.759 --> 00:21:06.000
I mean, I I think until we get to the point where we accept that this is a this change is inevitable, and that yes, I understand that AI is still a new idea and it and it's it's a it's ever changing and and it changes faster than the regulations can keep up with it.
00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:23.839
But I I think I read an article the other day that pretty much said that in a year or two, you know, we aren't we're gonna be so out of control with our inability to prevent AI from evolving that we're gonna just be far so far behind in our industry that who knows what's next, right?
00:21:23.839 --> 00:21:29.200
Not saying that it's gonna replace anyone, but we need to adopt it so we can evolve with it.
00:21:29.200 --> 00:21:31.759
Otherwise, we're we're just left in the dust.
00:21:31.759 --> 00:21:32.799
That's right.
00:21:32.799 --> 00:21:34.880
And I think that that's where it boils down to.
00:21:34.880 --> 00:21:47.440
I mean, I I'm having conversations with you know mortgage, mortgage leaders that say, hey, you know, I want AI, I I need AI, you know, especially as you know, we hope that mortgage volume is going to come back.
00:21:47.440 --> 00:21:51.119
It it it's that it's that vendor management side that's preventing us.
00:21:51.119 --> 00:21:53.440
But you know what, Joey?
00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:58.640
It's a reason why Fanny and Freddie have you know those test loans, right?
00:21:58.880 --> 00:21:59.279
That's right.
00:21:59.279 --> 00:21:59.759
That's right.
00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:05.200
So and those test laws have all the information that you need to run scenarios on.
00:22:05.200 --> 00:22:06.799
Was it you are correct?
00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:14.559
It's Johnny America or Am I Andy America, Andy America, Suzy, Suzy Builder, and Alice First Timer.
00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:14.960
Yes.
00:22:14.960 --> 00:22:15.839
Yes.
00:22:16.079 --> 00:22:17.200
We know them by heart, Pete.
00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:17.599
Yeah.
00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:22.319
So yeah, I mean, and it is interesting you brought the risk management piece.
00:22:22.319 --> 00:22:27.839
I think that, you know, from a credit union perspective, there was the true stage hiccup and things like that.
00:22:27.839 --> 00:22:35.839
And honestly, the oversight, the risk management piece of this is really one of the big things that's preventing more adoption in the credit union space.
00:22:35.839 --> 00:22:37.440
It's, you know, it's CYA.
00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:42.079
It's like, you know, we want to use it, but we're extremely hesitant.
00:22:42.079 --> 00:22:46.880
Uh we're skeptical about member data, protection of data, where's the data?
00:22:46.880 --> 00:22:49.680
You know, so we've really had to do a lot of guardrails around that.
00:22:49.680 --> 00:22:52.480
And like you said, we're not making any decisions on the loan.
00:22:52.480 --> 00:22:58.640
We're basically what I like to say is with our AI that we're, you know, we're populating the loan with details from the you know driver's license for the Patriot Act.
00:22:58.640 --> 00:23:06.000
Instead of somebody going to look at that, it's just already there if it if it really is Peter's driver's license and it's valid and it's not expired, et cetera.
00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:09.839
It's like it's taking the scavenger hunt so out of what the underwriter does.
00:23:09.839 --> 00:23:13.519
So what we're doing is nothing that we haven't been doing for 50 years, right?
00:23:13.519 --> 00:23:19.039
Of of looking at you know sales contracts and voes and voys and all those types of things.
00:23:19.039 --> 00:23:24.799
It's just streamlining that process so that the underwriter can focus on the things that really matter, right?
00:23:24.799 --> 00:23:29.440
And I think and and to get that that member approved faster is really the way I look at it.
00:23:29.599 --> 00:23:33.279
So yeah, it's you brought up you know, obviously true stage, right?
00:23:33.279 --> 00:23:41.599
And I think that's a perfect example example of how this fear has set in and that we have to overthink and overcomplicate.
00:23:41.599 --> 00:23:46.480
I'm not gonna say what could be a simple process, but what could be a logical process, right?
00:23:46.480 --> 00:23:50.319
But you have to think about it this way there were bad actors before AI.
00:23:50.319 --> 00:24:00.720
That's right, credit unions would get hacked, banks would get hacked, there would be ransom ransomware sent out all the time before AI.
00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:04.000
It's gonna happen after AI as well, right?
00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:10.799
And if we even go back even further, you know, before people were trying to steal from us digitally, they were stealing from us in person, right?
00:24:10.799 --> 00:24:11.279
That's right.
00:24:11.279 --> 00:24:12.000
So that's right.
00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:14.559
It's it's it's always gonna happen.
00:24:14.559 --> 00:24:19.680
You know, I'd like to think that as technology improves, security is gonna improve with it.
00:24:19.680 --> 00:24:22.160
So we again, we just have to adopt it.
00:24:22.160 --> 00:24:28.319
We we have to get to that point where it is such a no-brainer for us to go down this path.
00:24:28.319 --> 00:24:39.119
One, because of our individual evolution as an organization, but two, to fulfill our fiduciary responsibility to our members who are looking for a certain product and service.
00:24:39.119 --> 00:24:46.559
And when I say service, literally the the the service that they get when they come to their credit union, we have to go down this direction.
00:24:46.559 --> 00:24:47.279
We just have to.
00:24:47.279 --> 00:24:48.000
That's right.
00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:48.640
That's right.
00:24:48.799 --> 00:24:49.200
Yeah.
00:24:49.200 --> 00:24:51.440
I mean, it's it's inevitable, right?
00:24:51.440 --> 00:25:00.240
And uh and I think in order for credit unions to compete against IMBs that are that probably are a little more not as risk averse, I guess that's the way I'll say it.
00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:10.480
You know, I think that they're already down some of those paths and uh and you know, I think that they're gonna have to adopt, you know, even if it's a small sliver of the process, right?
00:25:10.480 --> 00:25:23.680
QC, you know, validation of the, you know, a couple documents up front, you know, clearing up conditions, even if it's only a couple of those things across the entire mortgage ecosystem and lifecycle, they have to start somewhere.
00:25:23.680 --> 00:25:34.400
And I think that's the other thing is people just don't, you know, they don't want to dip, they're like, well, I either have to have it all boil the ocean versus no, let's just dip your toe in the water, let's see if this piece works, and then we can expand, right?
00:25:34.400 --> 00:25:38.400
I think that's really one of the things we're seeing out in, especially with the credit unions today.
00:25:38.400 --> 00:25:41.279
So anyway, you know, technology I could talk about all day, Peter.
00:25:41.279 --> 00:25:51.839
But uh, you know, and I I think one of the the other themes that I wanted to kind of bring up that was an Acuma is around, of course, there's always you know topics around leadership and talent, organization.
00:25:51.839 --> 00:26:01.039
Um and it it may go along kind of with uh the technology piece we're talking about is you know, trans transformation, you know, within the the credit unions.
00:26:01.039 --> 00:26:08.240
And you know, people still have to lead the transformation, even if it's a technology project or if it's a process project or whatever.
00:26:08.240 --> 00:26:22.720
So anything on the people side of the business, you know, what this next generation will bring to the table, maybe maybe some of these entry points to adopting AI since these kids that are coming up, you know, honestly, I you know, we have folks on our staff that are technical writers.
00:26:22.720 --> 00:26:27.759
I'm I'm saying, I think you, even though you're a technical writer, tell your kids to become technical writers.
00:26:27.759 --> 00:26:31.519
You need to be able to be very lucid in your prompts.
00:26:31.519 --> 00:26:33.680
You know, do you need to know how to do programming?
00:26:33.680 --> 00:26:38.079
No, but the next generation is going to have AI on every device that we know of.
00:26:38.079 --> 00:26:42.480
And I need to be very eloquent in how I say, here's what I need.
00:26:42.480 --> 00:26:47.039
And if I can do that easily, I can get there a lot faster, no matter what it is, right?
00:26:47.039 --> 00:26:52.160
Mortgage, learning how to drive to, you know, Cat Manu, whatever it may be, right?
00:26:52.160 --> 00:27:06.079
So I think anything around the the next generation, and and as you know, Peter, you know, and I'm not trying to age you or me, but you know, the a lot of the folks in the mortgage and the mortgage industry are are, you know, you know, over 50.
00:27:06.079 --> 00:27:06.480
I don't know.
00:27:06.480 --> 00:27:25.519
I'm sure you may have the numbers in the top of your head, but you know, so I think you know, developing talent, making sure that our industry is taken care of, and and and really I think this next generation is going to be a lot more favorable to adopting new technologies because that's how they've grown up on it, is is my is my take.
00:27:25.680 --> 00:27:37.519
So now and and I I agree with you, you know, what what's the what's the running joke that you know our industry, whether it's mortgage or credit union, is you know, male, pale, and stale, right?
00:27:37.519 --> 00:27:44.640
You know, it it it I hate to say that I hate to say that it's true, but it it it it's it's it's true, right?
00:27:44.640 --> 00:27:45.440
Right.
00:27:45.440 --> 00:27:49.039
You know, you know, our our industry is getting older, right?
00:27:49.039 --> 00:27:54.960
And and you know, you know, diversity didn't really set into our industry, you know, for a long time.
00:27:54.960 --> 00:28:00.720
And and now that it finally is, I I I honestly think that we're we're getting better for it.
00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:11.680
You know, it's a conversation that we have quite often within my organization at our events, and you know, how can we grow the next line of leadership, mentor them for success?
00:28:11.680 --> 00:28:22.799
You know, the tough part is that you have you know these these excellent and amazing, you know, young professionals that are coming in and they have these brilliant ideas.
00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:33.920
But if if we don't provide them a forum to actually express those thoughts, put those thoughts into play, we are going to fail as an organization.
00:28:33.920 --> 00:28:37.440
We're just gonna be another savings and loan that goes away.
00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:37.680
Right.
00:28:37.680 --> 00:28:46.880
If if we can't take these young, brilliant professionals who are forward thinking and bring them up through the system, I think that that's where we're gonna fail.
00:28:46.880 --> 00:28:51.680
And here's the worst part is that our industry is not getting younger, right?
00:28:51.680 --> 00:28:52.240
Right.
00:28:52.240 --> 00:28:56.319
The average age, I I want to say like five years ago was like 56.
00:28:56.319 --> 00:29:00.160
And now I want to say now it's like 62 or something like that, right?
00:29:00.160 --> 00:29:02.480
And so that's not a good trend.
00:29:02.480 --> 00:29:03.440
That's right.
00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:25.599
And so, you know, and you know, for me, you know, and I can think about Acum, and this can be a plug for Acima, you know, if you're not bringing if if you are a senior leader and you're coming to our event and you're not bringing one of your lower level managers or junior managers with you, or someone you see potential into one of our events, you're doing not just them a disservice, you're doing your credit union disservice as well.
00:29:25.839 --> 00:29:26.240
That's right.
00:29:26.799 --> 00:29:29.759
There's a reason why you know we started the young professional network.
00:29:29.759 --> 00:29:45.839
There's a reason why we started the the women's professional network, is that so we can help grow and support our industry in a way that is needed and has been needed for a long time, because yes, you need diversity of of people and thought, but only that.
00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:54.960
It really takes one person within that organization to bring a great idea that's going to change the game, the way you you lend.
00:29:54.960 --> 00:30:02.880
And so it it's it's something that's never going to stop, but we we have to continue to evolve, not just in our lending process, but but who we are as leaders.
00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:05.200
Yeah, that's great, great points.
00:30:05.519 --> 00:30:09.680
I think one last thing from acuma, it kind of goes back to the opening session that you did.
00:30:09.680 --> 00:30:13.039
You know, we're all there, there's lots of sessions.
00:30:13.039 --> 00:30:16.400
You're drinking from a fountain, you know, hose, you know, all those things.
00:30:16.400 --> 00:30:32.400
You know, but then everybody kind of goes back to work and you know, they have this approval, this exception, this QC review, this, you know, I've got a I've got to get this, you know, this competitive competitors rate, you know, I've got to get an exception for that rate, all those types of things.
00:30:32.400 --> 00:30:37.279
But you know, you started off that your opening session, Peter, with, you know, take one thing back.
00:30:37.279 --> 00:30:57.279
So anything that kind of resonates with you as far as um, you know, one conversation or you know, one session um that that you kind of thought that was the the thing that stuck with you that hopefully stuck with a lot of the the members of Acuma to take back and and not leaving Vegas, right?
00:30:57.279 --> 00:31:01.599
Is is I just thought I would kind of bring it home from an Acuma perspective.
00:31:01.599 --> 00:31:07.680
We've got a couple more questions, but you started off the session, which was great, and and that's kind of that was your theme.
00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:11.119
That was the one thing that you told everybody, which I thought was right on point.
00:31:11.279 --> 00:31:14.880
So no, and and and thank you very much for asking this question.
00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:18.640
And and if it's okay, I'm I'm gonna make it more personal than it is professional.
00:31:18.640 --> 00:31:19.440
Sure.
00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:20.319
Great.
00:31:20.319 --> 00:31:33.200
You know, it it's you know, I I I travel a lot and and to the point where you know, I I've been mapping out my my my fourth, you know, fourth quarter, you know, you know, travel schedule.
00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:39.279
And it's it's I'm basically gone all of away from my family all of October and half of November, right?
00:31:39.279 --> 00:31:42.799
And with you know, a a day here and there, right?
00:31:42.799 --> 00:31:45.680
You know, the session, there obviously there's two sessions.
00:31:45.680 --> 00:31:48.240
We have we have a lot had several keynotes.
00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:58.000
You know, we had Zach Barnett, you know, we had Barry Habib, we had James Lawrence, but the biggest theme all of them had, right?
00:31:58.000 --> 00:32:02.160
Was and and unintentional, by the way, completely unintentional.
00:32:02.160 --> 00:32:08.079
You have one life, you have to live it to the fullest, and you have to be thankful for every day that you that you wake up, right?
00:32:08.079 --> 00:32:10.000
And that that was really the ultimate theme.
00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:22.400
And so ever since then, you know, I I've been waking up, and just like James Lawrence said that he does, and just like Barry said that he does, I wake up, I I I say thank you for today.
00:32:22.400 --> 00:32:24.799
Let's make it a good one, and I go about my day.
00:32:24.799 --> 00:32:30.319
And and ever since I started doing that, I found myself being a little bit more patient with my kids.
00:32:30.319 --> 00:32:31.119
I have three.
00:32:31.119 --> 00:32:33.599
Sorry, I did four, but I have three and two dogs.
00:32:33.759 --> 00:32:36.319
The dogs always include always include them, yes.
00:32:36.559 --> 00:32:39.279
Always listen, one of them's like an eight-month-old puppy.
00:32:39.279 --> 00:32:41.759
She might as well, just she might as well be a two-year-old.
00:32:41.759 --> 00:32:46.079
But I've been a little bit more patient, I've been a little bit more open with them.
00:32:46.079 --> 00:32:48.720
I've been a little bit a little been a little bit more cuddly.
00:32:48.720 --> 00:32:51.839
And it's just when I'm not here, it hurts.
00:32:51.839 --> 00:32:57.839
But I when I what my biggest takeaway is that I need to be more here when I am here.
00:32:57.839 --> 00:32:59.839
And I think that that was my biggest takeaway.
00:33:01.119 --> 00:33:07.440
You know, what's interesting about the conferences, you know, that all started with that first session with Zach uh Barnett.
00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:14.000
For anybody that doesn't know, he's part of American Authors, and they have a famous song about the best day of your life.
00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:15.519
And it's all about being present.
00:33:15.519 --> 00:33:18.079
So it really resonated with me.
00:33:18.079 --> 00:33:24.400
And I actually had a chance to hang out with Zach a little bit later after that session that night, probably a little bit too late.
00:33:24.400 --> 00:33:29.759
We talked music, but and we talked about how important that it is, you know, being present.
00:33:29.759 --> 00:33:32.720
You know, how do you make every day the best day of your life, really?
00:33:32.720 --> 00:33:41.200
And you know, it's interesting as I played in a golf tournament after I got back, and you know, I was kind of telling everybody the story, not to get into the story with my whole hour conversation with Zach.
00:33:41.200 --> 00:33:44.319
But, you know, I was asking him, What's your what's the best day of your life?
00:33:44.319 --> 00:34:04.319
And I, you know, with the guys, three guys in my group, some of our which I worked with, some of them which were closer to me from a family perspective, and you know, various, but it was it it it it took him a second to think about it, and then one guy said, Well, you know, it's kind of hard to beat, you know, being out here on the golf course with you and and you know, and just experiencing nature.
00:34:04.319 --> 00:34:10.320
And he's like, I I want to I I have this every day, or you know, when I'm out on the golf course, every day is the best day of his life.
00:34:10.320 --> 00:34:11.199
It was kind of interesting.
00:34:11.199 --> 00:34:12.400
So I agree with you, Peter.
00:34:12.400 --> 00:34:19.119
It's not all about you know mortgage advocacy advocacy and legislation and market penetration.
00:34:19.119 --> 00:34:23.760
It's it's about you know, these other things really mean a lot to all of us.
00:34:23.760 --> 00:34:25.360
So uh so I appreciate that.
00:34:25.360 --> 00:34:26.559
That's that's a great, great answer.
00:34:26.800 --> 00:34:37.519
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think and to kind of just add to that, you know, I I think one thing I realized that I spent my whole life trying to become this executive, right?
00:34:37.519 --> 00:34:38.079
Sure.
00:34:38.079 --> 00:34:43.199
Yeah, and I and I always thought to myself, with you know, I want people to remember that name on the door, right?
00:34:43.199 --> 00:34:46.719
U using that old analogy, even though I worked on them, right?
00:34:46.719 --> 00:34:48.800
And I I think that's all great, right?
00:34:48.800 --> 00:34:51.119
And that that's all fine well well said and done.
00:34:51.119 --> 00:34:54.719
But right, I think now those messages hit me particularly hard.
00:34:54.719 --> 00:35:00.239
And so now I I am more so focused on you know, he was a damn good father.
00:35:00.559 --> 00:35:02.400
That's that's that's where it's all at.
00:35:02.400 --> 00:35:04.719
Yeah, being present.
00:35:05.199 --> 00:35:05.840
Absolutely.
00:35:05.840 --> 00:35:06.559
Absolutely.
00:35:06.880 --> 00:35:07.760
So that's great.
00:35:07.760 --> 00:35:13.840
So one last question, kind of looking forward to 2027, and we're gonna do some quick hit questions in a second.
00:35:13.840 --> 00:35:20.880
You know, I'm sure most everybody's in their budgetary, planning, strategic meetings, all those types of things.
00:35:20.880 --> 00:35:25.440
Anything that you think that credit unions should kind of be thinking about in 2027?
00:35:25.760 --> 00:35:26.000
Yeah.
00:35:26.000 --> 00:35:30.559
I mean, you know, we're we're gonna put on three different events next year, only three.
00:35:30.559 --> 00:35:34.719
You know, the first one's going to be in March advocacy.
00:35:34.719 --> 00:35:48.960
You know, yes, there is a registration fee, but it is $500, which which I'm hoping is affordable enough that we'll bring as many credit unions from across the country to DC to hike that hill, and you'll get a lot out of it.
00:35:48.960 --> 00:35:57.760
And then in April, we're going to conduct combine our workshops and what we call our our our summits into one event.
00:35:57.760 --> 00:36:01.840
Uh, it will be in San Antonio, Texas at the JW Marriott.
00:36:01.840 --> 00:36:02.639
Great.
00:36:02.639 --> 00:36:08.239
We'll we'll play a little golf, but that event is going to be called Elevate.
00:36:08.239 --> 00:36:11.840
It's going to be designed almost like a mini-annual conference.
00:36:11.840 --> 00:36:15.360
We'll have general sessions, we'll have breakout sessions.
00:36:15.360 --> 00:36:21.599
I mean, we're we're really building it up like a first half of the year annual conference, um, some mix a little bit smaller.
00:36:21.599 --> 00:36:25.119
We're targeting, you know, 200, 300 people if possible.
00:36:25.119 --> 00:36:26.320
It's gonna be awesome.
00:36:26.320 --> 00:36:27.280
Like that's great.
00:36:27.280 --> 00:36:35.840
Think of all the great things that we did with our workshops and all the great things we did with our summits, like our summits, like we went to Billy Bob's and in worth one time.
00:36:35.840 --> 00:36:37.280
We went to a baseball game.
00:36:37.280 --> 00:36:40.400
We did tours of Anheuserbusch and and Guinness.
00:36:40.400 --> 00:36:42.880
We're gonna do that at Elevate as well.
00:36:42.880 --> 00:36:43.760
That's great.
00:36:43.760 --> 00:36:46.719
Just on a larger scale, but still have those great sessions.
00:36:46.719 --> 00:36:48.800
And of course, like I said, play golf.
00:36:48.800 --> 00:36:49.679
That's awesome.
00:36:49.679 --> 00:36:52.000
And as you can tell from my background, I might like golf.
00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:54.400
And I yeah, I saw that.
00:36:54.400 --> 00:36:55.840
It's it's pretty awesome.
00:36:55.840 --> 00:36:58.639
And then, of course, our annual conference next year in Chicago.
00:36:58.639 --> 00:37:01.360
I mean, who who doesn't love Chi Town, right?
00:37:01.360 --> 00:37:03.440
Chicagoland, the Windy City.
00:37:03.440 --> 00:37:05.119
It's gonna be fantastic.
00:37:05.119 --> 00:37:08.719
And I'm hoping this was the biggest acting event we ever put on this year.
00:37:08.719 --> 00:37:10.960
I'm hoping next year will be even bigger.
00:37:10.960 --> 00:37:11.599
Awesome.
00:37:11.760 --> 00:37:12.400
That's great.
00:37:12.400 --> 00:37:13.039
Awesome.
00:37:13.039 --> 00:37:17.119
So before we uh we let you go, we always like to do kind of quick hits.
00:37:17.119 --> 00:37:19.039
No overthinking these, Peter.
00:37:19.039 --> 00:37:22.400
You know, not long answers, just you know, so you can get on with your day.
00:37:22.400 --> 00:37:24.480
But I I think I've got three or four of these.
00:37:24.480 --> 00:37:30.639
So what do you what do you think the advantages that credit unions have in mortgage lending that they're not fully leveraging?
00:37:30.880 --> 00:37:31.840
It's that relationship.
00:37:31.840 --> 00:37:32.719
You know your members.
00:37:32.719 --> 00:37:34.239
Credit unions are like cheers.
00:37:34.239 --> 00:37:37.039
Whenever, whenever a member walks in, it it's like norm.
00:37:37.039 --> 00:37:40.800
If we're not leveraging that to grow our mortgage divisions, we're doing something wrong.
00:37:40.800 --> 00:37:41.519
Gotcha.
00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:59.440
And then, you know, kind of going back to the the you know, ease of use of giving a credit card out or a car loan or whatever, what do you what's what's one thing you think more CEOs at credit unions should know about mortgages and mortgage lending that some of them may not be kind of focused on?
00:37:59.760 --> 00:38:08.079
Yes, a mortgage a mortgage loan is harder to originate than an auto loan and a consumer loan, but that in this initial conversation is just as easy, if not easier.
00:38:08.079 --> 00:38:12.000
All you have to listen for is I'm thinking about moving.
00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:12.400
Perfect.
00:38:12.400 --> 00:38:14.400
Let's let me refer you to a loan officer.
00:38:14.719 --> 00:38:15.280
Gotcha.
00:38:15.519 --> 00:38:18.320
My my my cousins moving here, fantastic.
00:38:18.320 --> 00:38:20.079
Let me introduce them to a loan officer.
00:38:20.079 --> 00:38:21.039
It doesn't matter.
00:38:21.039 --> 00:38:25.119
The initial conversation can be can can occur and happen by anyone.
00:38:25.119 --> 00:38:25.679
Awesome.
00:38:25.760 --> 00:38:27.119
And so finish the sentence.
00:38:27.119 --> 00:38:32.719
The credit union uh mortgage lender of the future will originate more loans in a bank.
00:38:32.719 --> 00:38:33.679
Great answer.
00:38:33.679 --> 00:38:34.480
Great answer.
00:38:34.480 --> 00:38:35.280
Thank you.
00:38:35.280 --> 00:38:47.039
And then the last one, after this year's Acima annual make your mark conference, what makes you most optimistic about the future of mortgage lending and credit unions?
00:38:47.280 --> 00:38:53.280
I I think there's enough people out there who want to make a difference in our industry, and that that is comforting.
00:38:53.280 --> 00:38:54.159
That's great.
00:38:54.320 --> 00:38:54.719
Awesome.
00:38:54.719 --> 00:38:56.880
Well, I think Peter, that that's great.
00:38:56.880 --> 00:38:58.639
I think that's a great way to end it.
00:38:58.639 --> 00:39:02.719
Um appreciate all your time uh for sharing your perspective.
00:39:02.719 --> 00:39:08.400
Congratulations on another, you know, fantastic uh Acuma, you know, make your mark conference.
00:39:08.400 --> 00:39:10.000
It was fantastic as always.
00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:13.119
We had great, great breakfasts, lunches, sessions.
00:39:13.119 --> 00:39:16.000
It's it's always amazing what you and your team do every year.
00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:18.800
And I know it takes a lot of hard work, so props to your team.
00:39:18.800 --> 00:39:28.320
And and really, you know, all the things you do throughout the year really are important to both us from the vendor community, uh, of course, credit unions as well.
00:39:28.320 --> 00:39:32.719
And and you know, we appreciate you know all the things that uh that your your folks do.
00:39:32.719 --> 00:39:43.440
Thanks to everybody listening to the Mortgage Tech Intelligence podcast to learn more about Blue Sage and how we're helping credit unions and other mortgage lenders modernize uh their mortgage technology.
00:39:43.440 --> 00:39:46.159
Please visit Bluesageusa.com.
00:39:46.159 --> 00:39:47.599
I'm Joey McDuffie.
00:39:47.599 --> 00:39:48.320
Thanks for listening.
00:39:48.320 --> 00:39:49.199
We'll see you next time.
00:39:49.519 --> 00:39:53.920
Thanks for listening to Mortgage Tech Intelligence, brought to you by Blue Sage Solutions.
00:39:53.920 --> 00:40:01.519
Catch new episodes every other Thursday, and for more ways to elevate your lending game, head to Bluesage Solutions.com.
00:40:01.519 --> 00:40:06.079
Keep innovating, keep growing, and we'll see you next episode.