Presentation Skills Coaching with Michelle Von Ruden: Episode 19

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Welcome to this episode of Speaker Coaching on Mic Drop Mindset.
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My name is Jen, also Jen SpinGo if you're looking for me online.
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And today in the studio, I'm welcoming Michelle von Ruden.
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Welcome.
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Hi, thanks for having me.
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So, Michelle, you told me that you wanted to coach on something and you weren't quite sure specifically what you wanted to coach on today.
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By the way, these are new for me.
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I don't know what we're talking about today.
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So help tell me and our audience what are we coaching on today?
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Okay, so just to give you a little bit of background, I know you know me, but for those who are listening, so I entered the business of speaking about two years ago, and I came into it to mainly be a coach and to speak to get more clients.
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Tables have turned.
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So I now enjoy and love speaking.
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And this year I stepped out a little bit more in my faith.
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I started a podcast.
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I talk about my faith openly.
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And now, as I am transitioning into what the new normal is for me, I'm trying to understand how do I incorporate those or how do I keep them separate?
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And let me make that a little bit more clear.
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So I have been told by numerous people that if I say that, oh, I speak in the Christian segment world, if I speak in the Christian world, then no one's gonna hire me in the secular world, and vice versa.
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But I don't think that's true.
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And what I'm trying to figure out is how do I navigate that?
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And you've been in the business longer than I have, right?
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So how do I navigate that?
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Because you hear you can't do it and you can't have your cake and eat it too, but come on, guys, I want my cake and I want to eat it too.
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Sounds delicious.
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It does, right?
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So why can't I be fully authentically me and still get the same message across?
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Because the difference is in one situation I say it one way, and in another situation I say it the same way.
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It's the same message.
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Okay.
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Just to clarify, because you know, again, I know something of you, I know about your podcast, why I believe, check it out.
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But what I'm curious about is is it the same talk?
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Yeah.
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So I talk about burnout, and burnout is real in both worlds.
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And so that's really I'm a burnout strategist, and that's what I talk about.
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The thing that I'm running into is people like, well, if you start posting about you spoke here and there, then you're not gonna get these leads.
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And then if you do this, you're not gonna get that.
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And it's a lot of blocking, and I don't really like that so much.
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I'm curious who you're talking to as well.
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These seem like a lot of naysayers.
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Are they people who are in either one of the secular or the Christian world?
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Yes.
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So they're speakers of the secular and Christian world who are giving you this advice.
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Well-meaning advice.
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Well-meaning advice that are that are really well known in the world.
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Okay.
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It's not like I'm talking to another first year, second year, third year speaker.
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I'm talking to somebody who has CSP, CPAEs, you know, the real status.
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Okay.
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So the fear here is that if you hung your shingle in either world, that would exclude you from the other one.
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Yeah.
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And the reason why it's really coming to light is I'm gonna start working on a new website because right now I just have my coaching and consulting, and I'm really trying to decipher do I, how do I do that?
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And how do I put it together in a way that makes sense and that people feel included?
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Okay.
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Does that make sense?
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I think so.
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The thing I'm a little bit struggling with is if the talk is the same, regardless of which audience you're delivering it to, what is different about the talk?
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Well, in one talk, I would be throwing in Bible verses and examples from the Bible and stories from the Bible to help really take home the points.
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Okay.
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Whereas in the secular world, I'm going to be talking about my personal experiences and experiences of people that have come to me and talked to me about their experiences and sharing those stories.
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So really the stories are the differentiator.
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Okay, so you'll swap out the stories, which is something that I usually recommend people do as they're customizing their talk with whatever audience they're in front of.
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Obviously, you can't talk about you know Bible verses in front of people who aren't Christian.
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Right.
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Um, so that would make total sense.
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Is the concern that people in perhaps if you speak at a church, they might be like, oh, we heard you speak at this other place before and you didn't have the same talk.
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Is that a concern as well?
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No, it's just really the flip side of that, right?
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Oh, okay.
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The secular world.
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So, oh, okay, we saw you, you had a post about you spoke at a Christian conference.
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Okay, well, we can't have you because you might try to spit it all over us, right?
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And that's really not what's gonna happen because I'm a professional, right?
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But how do I do that and navigate that so that that way they understand that?
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It sounds like there's some things about identity coming up here.
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Not for me, but yeah, identity is actually one of the things I talk about in the whole burnout strategy.
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So, what about someone who's non-Christian would feel threatened by you dropping a Bible verse?
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Do you feel?
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I don't think they would.
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I think it's the meeting planners who were fearful of the unknown.
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I think that's really what it comes down to because they have a stack of people that they can go through that might be problematic, gone, right?
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And that's where I'm trying to, how do I get over that hump?
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How do they I'm how do I make it so people know that I'm not problematic?
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Hmm.
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Do you have some sense of previous engagements that you haven't received specifically because of this?
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Not yet.
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No.
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Okay, so you don't have any evidence necessarily pointing to this.
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Um, so right now it's kind of a fear, it's kind of a concern.
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No evidence so far for that.
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Correct.
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So not that I'm aware of anyway, right?
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Because you don't always get all the feedback.
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This is true.
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This is true.
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You can ask, but if they don't respond or if they say something different, we have no idea what actually is true.
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Right.
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Um, it's the awesome world we live in these days.
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Supposing you put yourself out there as just a speaker, you don't clarify that you're Christian, secular, nothing.
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You're just a speaker on burnout and resilience.
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What about that?
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That's what I'm doing currently.
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Okay.
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But I think as the podcast grows, and I'm actually doing a podcast live at a Christian music festival and a couple months.
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So I think as that grows, it's gonna be more problematic.
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I'm just trying to solve the problem before I think it becomes a problem.
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Especially when I'm thinking about how I'm doing the website and how, because as you know, websites are not cheap.
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We're putting our money there, we're getting people, we're sending people there, we want to make sure it's right.
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And it's not gonna be perfect.
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And I understand that because perfectionism is a lie.
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However, I want it to be as good as it can be.
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How will you know whether it's a problem?
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An actual problem with evidence where you're being declined when someone tells me, when I actually get someone to tell me.
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Okay, okay.
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So, what would make you feel more secure about what you need to put on your website?
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That's a great question.
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You know, and I don't know.
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So I had the opportunity to be in a room with a Hall of Famer uh a few about a month ago when I asked them because at the end of his talk, he says, God bless.
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And I was like, How do you work with that?
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How do you navigate that?
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And I didn't really get a full answer.
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And I guess I would really like a full answer from somebody who's navigated that world and how they've done it and the cause and effect.
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Because I'm not worried about losing clients who are like, you know, that's really not my style, that's not my life.
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Cool, that's great.
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I'm happy to know that.
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I'm here if you need me for anything else, right?
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My hurdle is getting past the meeting planners who are like, oh, but maybe, you know, and creating that fear that's not necessarily there.
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Why would the meeting planner have that fear?
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So as I'm thinking through the application process, you're submitting a proposal and RFP, or maybe you're just word of mouth referral and you're saying this is what I talk about.
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What in that pitch would indicate that you might be a red flag for them?
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When they go to the website and see the, you know, the speaker page, and then on the other side would be the um podcast, or you know, if I speak at a Christian thing, it's gonna be on the website.
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So I think it's when they see that.
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I see.
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Who is your best client that you know of so far?
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High achievers.
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Who is your best audience fit?
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Women.
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So far, it's been women across the board, not just Christian women, high achieving women, high achieving women, okay.
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Regardless of faith, correct education, age, all of it.
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Yes.
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Okay.
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So why would you be concerned that something unique to your identity, your faith, would result in you getting no?
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What if it results in you getting yes?
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No.
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That's a good point.
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At the end of the day, people hire you for the way you deliver your content.
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What's coming up for you around that?
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Uh part of it is I started to separate things.
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I created like LinkedIn has three pages now, right?
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Facebook has three pages now, Instagram has two.
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I'm like, I feel like it's just madness.
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But when I separated the LinkedIn, somebody's like, oh, that was a really good idea, Michelle.
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So they kind of validated my thought process there, right?
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And nobody's like, oh, why'd you do that?
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Why'd you make yourself more work, Michelle?
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They didn't say that.
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They said that was a good idea.
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Mmm.
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You seem to gather a lot of information from others.
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I'm a learner, and so I take in a lot of information.
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And so then I process that.
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What does your process look like?
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So, for example, if you believe something to be true, you're talking to someone, they tell you something that's against what you believe to be true.
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How do you process through that?
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Or what do you pay attention to?
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Like, like I start with my values.
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What are my values?
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Right?
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Faith, health, family, wealth.
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In that order, nonstop, right?
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It's non-negotiable.
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Um, and so I go to that.
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And then the question is, okay, well, who are they to me?
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Okay, right?
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Why does their opinion matter?
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And if I don't really know them, are they more successful in a certain area that I'm trying to become successful in?
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Okay.
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So, like if Joe Schmoe off the street was like, I don't know about that, Michelle, I'd be like, cool, go back to do what you're doing, right?
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Because I don't, their opinion means nothing.
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But when it's somebody who's of a higher stature in the speaking world, it does carry weight.
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Okay.
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Okay.
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So you're looking to the expert advice.
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Right.
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And regardless of what their personal belief system might be, because they so I heard this before, um, and I thought it was brilliant because it's true.
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There was a person who I was listening to, a speaker coach, who was talking about presentation skills, and she was coaching somebody, and she said, It doesn't matter what I think about your presentation because everyone will have a different opinion on it.
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And that's true, whether you're a speaker coach or not, everyone has a different opinion, perspective, belief, whatever.
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So, like what I might tell someone as a speaker coach would be totally different from another person, and both are valid, but not necessarily applicable to specific situations.
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So, as you are looking for expert advice from someone who you believe is in a different place than you are or where you'd like to be, how do you filter that information against what you're hoping to do?
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It really comes down again, like, where do they fit in with my values?
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Where do they fit in with like their stature?
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Do I know their work?
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Is it validated?
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Right.
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So I kind of try to validate before I just take it all in.
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I mean, I take it all in, but then I validate and then I I heard this great saying at influence last year, and I can't remember the lady that said it, but she said, eat the fish and leave the bones.
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Interesting.
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Right?
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So take what you need and then leave the rest.
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And so I really try to do that.
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I like that phrase.
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I might steal it.
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Yeah.
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Borrow it, adopt it.
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Sorry.
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I will figure out who said it, and I'll let you know so we can give her so we can give her proper credit.
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Yes.
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Um, but I think that's really where it's at for me.
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But I just, you know, when you're spending that kind of money to build a website and you're spending all this time and energy, and I've invested a lot of money into my world and my business, and even before the business, and to just investing in myself.
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Um I just want to do a good job.
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It doesn't have to be perfect, it won't be perfect, but I want it to work.
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Well, you mentioned a couple of things, and I just want to reflect back on something I heard you say.
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Your values, the top of your values is faith.
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Correct.
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So is it possible for you to show up on stage without having faith involved in some way, shape, or form?
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Well, no, it's always there.
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Okay.
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I carry it with me.
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So, right.
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Yeah.
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So you can't like separate that from yourself.
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It's not something you could just silo and be like, I'm gonna put this over here right now.
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Oh, no, absolutely not.
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That's a unique part of who you are and how you show up as a speaker.
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Right.
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So trying to separate that from how you show up on stage is impossible.
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You can do it physically online if you need to.
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There's this site for these people, which is complicated.
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And so that's another thing.
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That's another thing.
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Capacity.
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Oh.
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As a solopreneur, as a speaker, as someone who's got multiple things going on in your life, what can you manage from a capacity standpoint?
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Can you manage two websites, two social medias for everything?
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Or is that even possible?
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Well, so funny that you asked the burnout strategist about this, right?
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I've actually found it easier now that I've separated them.
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Okay.
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Because uh Rory Vaden says diluted focus is diluted results.
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And so when I'm on this page, I am focused, like this is the message I'm sending out, this is what I'm doing, right?
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And then the next person goes to the next site or the next social media page, I'm like, oh, this is focused on my coaching and consulting.
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Okay, I'm sending out messages about this.
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So it's actually made it easier.
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So from a capacity standpoint, despite having duplication of efforts, it's easier for you.
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Yes.
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It's easier for you.
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Okay, so that problem is not a problem, right?
00:13:17.519 --> 00:13:19.440
So what is the core problem here?
00:13:23.120 --> 00:13:31.039
Because what I'm doing, so what I'm doing is I'm gonna start rebranding everything under M VR, which stands for Michelle von Ruden, also most valuable resource.
00:13:31.200 --> 00:13:31.759
Oh, cool.
00:13:31.919 --> 00:13:32.159
Yeah.
00:13:32.320 --> 00:13:34.799
And so I have the website, Michelle von Ruden.com.
00:13:34.879 --> 00:13:35.279
It's not out right.
00:13:35.600 --> 00:13:36.080
Coming soon.
00:13:36.240 --> 00:13:37.039
Coming soon.
00:13:37.279 --> 00:13:42.799
Um, but the why I believe is already listed as why I believe at michelle vonruden.com, this email address.
00:13:43.039 --> 00:13:48.559
And um, so when I start doing the speaking stuff, I'm gonna have it under that same umbrella.
00:13:48.879 --> 00:13:50.799
And then I'll have anything that's speaking related.
00:13:50.879 --> 00:13:59.279
So the coaching or so the speaking and the podcast will be under that umbrella, and then the coaching and consulting will be a separate umbrella because they are in a sense two different things.
00:13:59.679 --> 00:14:02.559
So if I wanted to hire you as a speaker, where do I go?
00:14:02.799 --> 00:14:04.080
Right now, future state.
00:14:04.240 --> 00:14:06.320
Future state, uh, Michelle Vonerdon.com.
00:14:06.480 --> 00:14:07.840
Okay, and what would I see there?
00:14:08.080 --> 00:14:11.600
You'll see my speaking website, a page for meeting planners.
00:14:11.759 --> 00:14:12.000
Okay.
00:14:12.480 --> 00:14:15.039
And ideally the podcast.
00:14:15.360 --> 00:14:15.679
Okay.
00:14:16.080 --> 00:14:24.639
So if I'm a faith-based person and I go to your current website as is, and I go to your speaking page for meeting planners, what would I see there?
00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:26.799
There's nothing face-to-face on there.
00:14:26.960 --> 00:14:27.200
Okay.
00:14:27.360 --> 00:14:27.519
Yeah.
00:14:27.679 --> 00:14:33.519
So would that be an exclusionary thing, do you think, for someone from a faith-based perspective?
00:14:34.159 --> 00:14:35.519
Potentially, maybe.
00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:37.600
But you're more concerned about the other way.
00:14:37.759 --> 00:14:38.480
The other way, yeah.
00:14:38.720 --> 00:14:45.360
Okay, so in future state, you're hoping to put everything speaking on your MVR website.
00:14:46.639 --> 00:14:48.879
And all of your language will be faith-based.
00:14:49.200 --> 00:14:49.519
No.
00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:50.320
Oh.
00:14:51.039 --> 00:14:51.360
Okay.
00:14:51.679 --> 00:14:56.080
So you're still doing the both and so on the main page, it's gonna be all my speaking.
00:14:56.159 --> 00:14:59.679
So whether that's Christian-based or secular, it's on that page.
00:14:59.919 --> 00:15:00.159
Okay.
00:15:00.320 --> 00:15:02.240
And then the podcast and the meeting planner.
00:15:02.480 --> 00:15:02.799
Okay.
00:15:03.039 --> 00:15:06.159
So it sounds like you can have it all and eat your cake too.
00:15:06.320 --> 00:15:06.960
Can we though?
00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:13.679
That's that's my question is can I put those all on the same page and not be discriminated against by meeting planners?
00:15:15.440 --> 00:15:16.720
The future will tell.
00:15:16.879 --> 00:15:19.440
I mean, I won't pretend that I can predict the future.
00:15:19.759 --> 00:15:20.159
Come on.
00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:23.600
And the fear is there, but you don't have any evidence to show that's true.
00:15:24.399 --> 00:15:24.559
Yes.
00:15:24.720 --> 00:15:27.600
You've heard some things from some people on the street, word on the street.
00:15:27.759 --> 00:15:29.200
Yeah, you can believe that.
00:15:29.360 --> 00:15:33.200
You can say it's not part of what matters to me at this moment, you know.
00:15:33.440 --> 00:15:36.559
So, how strong would that be for you?
00:15:36.960 --> 00:15:44.879
So, for example, 2027, early 2027, new website, everything's out there, people are reaching out to you.
00:15:45.919 --> 00:15:49.039
What kind of evidence would prove that was not the right move?
00:15:52.720 --> 00:15:57.679
Not continuing to get uh clients that aren't in the Christian world.
00:15:58.000 --> 00:16:04.960
So, because at the end of the day, what I really want to do is help people overcome burnout and take back their life.
00:16:05.360 --> 00:16:08.720
And it doesn't matter if you're Christian or not, right?
00:16:08.879 --> 00:16:10.000
I can still help you.
00:16:10.399 --> 00:16:14.399
If you're sitting in an audience with a mixed audience, I can help you, right?
00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:17.840
I beat burnout in the biggest possible way.
00:16:18.480 --> 00:16:20.240
And I can help others do that.
00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:21.840
And that's really at the end of the day what I want to do.
00:16:21.919 --> 00:16:23.679
And I just don't want anyone to feel excluded.
00:16:24.240 --> 00:16:25.200
Does that make sense?
00:16:25.440 --> 00:16:26.240
It does make sense.
00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:26.559
Okay.
00:16:26.799 --> 00:16:27.279
Yeah.
00:16:28.159 --> 00:16:30.799
So at the end of the day, you help people with burnout.
00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:31.200
Yeah.
00:16:32.080 --> 00:16:35.759
You can do that regardless of what kind of concepts you have within your talk.
00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:36.320
Correct.
00:16:36.799 --> 00:16:38.240
Who most struggles with burnout?
00:16:38.559 --> 00:16:39.679
Secular or Christian?
00:16:40.159 --> 00:16:40.559
Both.
00:16:41.200 --> 00:16:44.480
Who's who would you most would you rather work with?
00:16:44.879 --> 00:16:45.600
Let's be real.
00:16:45.759 --> 00:16:47.200
Who do you want to work with?
00:16:47.840 --> 00:16:49.440
I never thought about that.
00:16:49.919 --> 00:16:55.200
Because I really scouted her.
00:16:56.000 --> 00:17:10.480
I really haven't thought about that because really I work with high achieving women who are struggling with every day getting their stuff done, trying to figure out like what they're doing, how they're even making it from day to day.
00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:14.160
You know, I've sat down with clients recently and I'm like, hey, how are you doing today?
00:17:14.480 --> 00:17:16.160
And this is before they're even a client.
00:17:16.319 --> 00:17:19.680
We're just having coffee, and they start crying when I ask them, How are you doing today?
00:17:20.480 --> 00:17:21.920
Okay, that's a problem.
00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:23.119
I would say so.
00:17:23.279 --> 00:17:23.519
Right.
00:17:23.680 --> 00:17:27.200
And so you're gonna ask me how I'm doing, and I'm not crying.
00:17:27.279 --> 00:17:30.880
I can have 5,000 things going on, and as we discovered, I do, but I'm not crying about it.
00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:32.799
I'm like, oh, it's actually got me more focused, right?
00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:36.559
I'm really in tune with where I'm at, and I can help people get there.
00:17:36.640 --> 00:17:43.599
And that's really what I want to do, whether you're selling an audience, whether you're a coaching client, it doesn't matter how, or you're even listening to the podcast, right?
00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:44.880
I got you.
00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:47.359
And so I've never thought about it in that way.
00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:48.720
Yeah.
00:17:49.039 --> 00:17:59.759
And I think this is important because as speakers, we tend to say, I will speak to any audience that will have me, will bring me in, will pay me my fee, all the things, whatever the minimum requirements are for you and your business.
00:18:00.240 --> 00:18:08.240
Ultimately, though, if you had to choose just one, what would you lean towards?
00:18:09.119 --> 00:18:11.279
Because we can do everything, just not all at once.
00:18:11.519 --> 00:18:12.160
Yeah.
00:18:20.319 --> 00:18:21.680
You have me speechless.
00:18:21.839 --> 00:18:23.039
That doesn't happen very often.
00:18:23.359 --> 00:18:26.640
What I want to say is high achieving entrepreneurs is what I want to say.
00:18:27.200 --> 00:18:31.200
Um that's what I want to say.
00:18:31.519 --> 00:18:32.880
High achieving entrepreneurs.
00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:33.359
Yes.
00:18:33.599 --> 00:18:34.640
Regardless of background.
00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:35.119
Yeah.
00:18:35.519 --> 00:18:35.839
Okay.
00:18:36.799 --> 00:18:44.480
Another thing that I think is important to highlight is when you have a signature speech as you do, you can deliver that signature speech to any audience.
00:18:44.559 --> 00:18:49.359
And when you have the right techniques to customize that to that audience, it doesn't matter who's in that audience.
00:18:49.519 --> 00:18:56.559
You will do your homework, you will be prepared, you will deliver an amazing experience, and you can have more than one audience.
00:18:58.079 --> 00:19:04.400
However, as you're focusing on your business model and who you most want to be in front of, you only have so many days in the year.
00:19:04.480 --> 00:19:06.000
You can only travel so many times.
00:19:06.160 --> 00:19:09.039
If you say yes to one, you're saying no to the other one.
00:19:09.200 --> 00:19:12.720
So as you hear that, what comes forward for you?
00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:14.799
What is more important to you?
00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:19.759
Rephrase your question.
00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:23.599
I'll rephrase it in a different way.
00:19:24.400 --> 00:19:28.240
Tomorrow you get offered two speaking engagements at your full fee.
00:19:28.400 --> 00:19:30.880
One is secular, one is Christian.
00:19:31.519 --> 00:19:35.200
Conveniently located, not allowed to travel, they cover all their travel, whatever.
00:19:35.279 --> 00:19:37.759
Or it's in a beautiful location, they cover your travel.
00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:39.039
Same fee.
00:19:39.279 --> 00:19:41.519
They say we want you, we need you.
00:19:41.759 --> 00:19:43.519
Which one are you accepting?
00:19:44.240 --> 00:19:44.960
Faith.
00:19:45.599 --> 00:19:45.920
Okay.
00:19:49.759 --> 00:19:50.400
Why?
00:19:51.359 --> 00:19:52.799
Well, it's my core values.
00:19:53.039 --> 00:19:53.440
Right.
00:19:54.079 --> 00:19:57.839
Part of me when what what I really wanted to say was, well, can I talk about God at the other one?
00:19:57.920 --> 00:20:00.000
Because then we might have to go into the other place.
00:20:01.119 --> 00:20:02.079
Interesting.
00:20:02.319 --> 00:20:04.319
Do you want to provide more color around that?
00:20:04.799 --> 00:20:08.640
Well, you know, so in my talk, and this part this part is the one that doesn't change.
00:20:08.799 --> 00:20:16.079
So I talk about identity, and I say there's a line in there that says, um, you have to understand your identity, you have to know your true identity.
00:20:16.160 --> 00:20:17.519
And for me, that's being a child of God.
00:20:18.079 --> 00:20:20.000
For you, that may be different.
00:20:20.799 --> 00:20:25.039
And so it doesn't matter what audience, that line doesn't leave because it's true.
00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:26.480
I can't change that.
00:20:27.119 --> 00:20:27.279
Right.
00:20:27.440 --> 00:20:38.559
And so then we get into whole like, you gotta, you know, water your tree and take care of yourself and feed yourself, and um, because that'll help you get over your identity issues with achievement titles.
00:20:39.200 --> 00:20:43.039
So you know what came forward for me when you were talking?
00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:52.000
I know it's helpful for you to have one place for this, one place for that, and it allows you to focus.
00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:55.519
Do you sometimes feel like that carries over into your personal life?
00:20:55.759 --> 00:21:01.519
Like I'm gonna keep this over here and I'm gonna keep this over here, and different parts of me are gonna show up in those places.
00:21:01.680 --> 00:21:02.319
No, okay.
00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:04.960
I'm just curious because sometimes there are parallels.
00:21:05.200 --> 00:21:05.920
Yeah, no, no.
00:21:06.160 --> 00:21:08.880
I mean, the only time I do that is when I shut my office door, I'm done with work.
00:21:09.039 --> 00:21:10.720
Because you know, my office is in my house, right?
00:21:10.799 --> 00:21:13.119
So I close my office and then okay, work's over.
00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:14.799
Now it's family time, right?
00:21:15.359 --> 00:21:17.599
So that's that's the indicator for shutting the door.
00:21:17.759 --> 00:21:17.920
Okay.
00:21:18.160 --> 00:21:19.680
But that's where that's at.
00:21:19.920 --> 00:21:20.160
Okay.
00:21:20.240 --> 00:21:20.400
Yeah.
00:21:20.559 --> 00:21:20.720
Okay.
00:21:20.799 --> 00:21:27.119
I was just curious because sometimes, and this happens with other clients where they struggle with pieces of their own identity.
00:21:27.279 --> 00:21:33.759
Maybe there's some on process things, something else going on, where they're like, I'm afraid to say this on stage for one reason or another.
00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:38.400
Either it's gonna exclude someone, someone's gonna be offended, whatever might come up for them.
00:21:38.640 --> 00:21:39.759
Does that ever come up for you?
00:21:39.920 --> 00:21:44.400
Well, I will say two years ago we could have sat down and had this conversation, and the answer would have been totally different.
00:21:45.200 --> 00:21:48.079
Um, but this year I really stepped out of my faith.
00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:53.039
On January 2nd, I posted on Facebook a whole unmasking video of like being authentically me.
00:21:53.119 --> 00:21:55.440
It had, I think, over a thousand views last time I looked.
00:21:55.920 --> 00:22:03.680
Um, and so I would say, and before, even like a year or two years ago, I was Said my values are the same, faith, health, family, wealth, in that order.
00:22:05.279 --> 00:22:09.039
But you would see me thinking about my family and my wealth.
00:22:09.599 --> 00:22:11.759
Maybe not so much my health, right?
00:22:11.920 --> 00:22:12.880
So that's changed.
00:22:13.039 --> 00:22:14.960
Um, and as the same with my faith, right?
00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:20.640
So, like I would say, oh, my personal faith, and then they'd be like, Oh, okay, but they don't see it.
00:22:21.519 --> 00:22:21.839
Right.
00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:37.839
And so last year I was at a Christian conference uh that I spoke at, and somebody posed the question if somebody was to walk in to persecute all Christians, would they know that you're a Christian by what you do and how you act and what comes out of your mouth?
00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:40.640
And what about that question made you stop?
00:22:41.119 --> 00:22:42.799
Because I don't think I would have qualified.
00:22:43.839 --> 00:22:45.200
And how did that make you feel?
00:22:45.359 --> 00:22:46.160
Not good.
00:22:47.200 --> 00:22:47.519
Right?
00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:50.079
Well, integrity is a huge thing.
00:22:50.240 --> 00:22:52.640
Um, no, the shift came after I got saved again last year.
00:22:52.799 --> 00:22:53.119
Oh, okay.
00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:57.920
I went in for an appendectomy and found out I had cancer in my appendix.
00:22:58.079 --> 00:22:58.720
Oh, I'm sorry.
00:22:58.880 --> 00:23:02.079
And uh because they took the appendix, I am cancer free.
00:23:02.160 --> 00:23:02.480
Yes.
00:23:02.720 --> 00:23:04.799
Then I went out and told my husband, I was like, You won't believe what happened.
00:23:04.960 --> 00:23:07.519
And he's like, he's like, Oh, God saved you again.
00:23:07.680 --> 00:23:12.400
So, and I was like, Oh, this keeps happening.
00:23:12.559 --> 00:23:14.720
So, yeah, there's lots of stories around that.
00:23:14.880 --> 00:23:16.000
Listen to the podcast.
00:23:16.160 --> 00:23:16.720
Yeah.
00:23:17.440 --> 00:23:19.359
I'm actually kind of curious about that story.
00:23:19.440 --> 00:23:22.960
So I'm gonna go look at that and I'll link it up in the show notes too as well.
00:23:23.200 --> 00:23:23.680
Interesting.
00:23:23.839 --> 00:23:24.559
Okay, yeah.
00:23:24.720 --> 00:23:27.519
So we've we've gone a lot of places in this conversation here.
00:23:27.599 --> 00:23:29.599
What's coming back for you as most important?
00:23:32.319 --> 00:23:36.640
Why do I care what other people think when I'm not if the whole point is to be true to me?
00:23:38.799 --> 00:23:44.400
Because really, as much as I like you and we're friends, your opinion doesn't matter at the end of the day.
00:23:45.039 --> 00:23:45.599
Right?
00:23:46.720 --> 00:23:47.839
So do what I want.
00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:49.119
Have my cake and eat it too.
00:23:49.279 --> 00:23:50.720
Have your cake and eat it too.
00:23:52.400 --> 00:23:58.559
And just a small note, because I think it's it's important to demonstrate this or at least to call it out as a potential concern.
00:23:58.720 --> 00:23:59.039
Yeah.
00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:07.759
I know that a lot of Christian or faith-based places don't necessarily have the budgets that perhaps other conferences or events, secular ones, might have.
00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:08.079
Right.
00:24:08.240 --> 00:24:09.519
Is that a concern for you at all?
00:24:09.839 --> 00:24:10.720
It is to a point.
00:24:10.799 --> 00:24:13.519
I mean, because I can help the most people when I get paid, right?
00:24:13.759 --> 00:24:17.359
Because that helps that allows me to do other charity work, things of that nature.
00:24:17.519 --> 00:24:20.480
However, it's not the end all be all, right?
00:24:20.720 --> 00:24:20.960
Okay.
00:24:21.119 --> 00:24:21.359
Yeah.
00:24:21.519 --> 00:24:21.839
Okay.
00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:25.119
It's important because some people have different goals with their speaking.
00:24:25.200 --> 00:24:28.559
Some people are like, I don't care as long as I'm in a room full of potential coaching clients.
00:24:28.720 --> 00:24:32.319
Other people are saying, no, I'm not gonna enter that room unless I get$10,000.
00:24:32.559 --> 00:24:34.559
You know, like it just depends on your goals for speaking.
00:24:34.720 --> 00:24:38.319
As long as I'm not compromising my values, we're good.
00:24:38.559 --> 00:24:38.880
Okay.
00:24:38.960 --> 00:24:39.279
Yeah.
00:24:39.519 --> 00:24:45.599
As we think about the right mix of business for you, because you can do all of the things and eat them too.
00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:52.480
But like, what would be a perfect ideal mix of secular and faith-based work for you in the next year?
00:24:53.519 --> 00:24:55.599
Well, for sure, the podcast is not going anywhere.
00:24:55.759 --> 00:24:57.920
That's gonna be, you know, my standalone.
00:24:58.079 --> 00:25:02.319
I was on a call yesterday and somebody's like, if you're gonna call yourself a speaker, you gotta speak twice a week.
00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:03.680
And I was like, Oh, cool, okay.
00:25:03.839 --> 00:25:05.279
We're gonna we're gonna work our way to that.
00:25:05.440 --> 00:25:06.000
Twice a week.
00:25:06.079 --> 00:25:06.559
I've not heard that.
00:25:06.880 --> 00:25:07.839
Twice a week is what I heard.
00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:08.160
Yep.
00:25:08.319 --> 00:25:08.799
Interesting.
00:25:09.039 --> 00:25:10.960
Everyone has their own like rules, right?
00:25:11.119 --> 00:25:12.960
Yeah, everybody does, right?
00:25:13.519 --> 00:25:14.960
Eat the fish, leave the bones.
00:25:15.039 --> 00:25:15.359
Exactly.
00:25:15.519 --> 00:25:20.000
I think you know, a healthy mix 50-50 between my different engagements.
00:25:20.240 --> 00:25:20.960
Okay, yeah.
00:25:21.200 --> 00:25:22.319
Well, that sounds sustainable.
00:25:22.400 --> 00:25:24.720
Does it sound like a fair compromise for you?
00:25:24.880 --> 00:25:25.519
Yes.
00:25:25.839 --> 00:25:26.319
Awesome.
00:25:26.480 --> 00:25:29.119
No, nothing's ever 50-50, but yeah, you know what I mean.
00:25:30.079 --> 00:25:34.160
We start here and then wherever we go in that journey is where we go in the journey.
00:25:34.400 --> 00:25:35.599
Right, absolutely.
00:25:36.559 --> 00:25:43.359
Was there anything else you'd like to discuss around this conversation of where to focus your time, attention, speaking business?
00:25:46.240 --> 00:25:53.759
You know, the one thing that can't keep coming up for me is like, how do the speakers that are the CPAEs, CSPs, how do they do it all?
00:25:53.839 --> 00:25:58.160
Because when you think about all the things that speakers have to do, yes, right?
00:25:58.400 --> 00:26:05.279
Social media, email marketing, um, prospecting, admin, finance, marketing.
00:26:05.359 --> 00:26:05.680
I don't know.
00:26:05.759 --> 00:26:06.480
I'm missing things.
00:26:06.559 --> 00:26:08.640
You get the point a lot, right?
00:26:08.799 --> 00:26:09.359
Yeah.
00:26:09.599 --> 00:26:10.640
How do you do it all?
00:26:10.720 --> 00:26:11.920
Like, what does that day look like?
00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:14.400
And I think that'd be a great thing for you to cover someday.
00:26:14.720 --> 00:26:16.480
Oh, challenge accepted.
00:26:16.640 --> 00:26:19.519
I'm not a CSP, so I can't speak to no, but you know a lot.
00:26:19.759 --> 00:26:20.160
I do.
00:26:20.319 --> 00:26:26.640
I can't speak to what CSPs do, but my observation is six-figure speakers, they have a team.
00:26:26.720 --> 00:26:35.279
Yeah, they have a personal assistant, they have a VA, they have an OBM, they have somebody handling the back end, and they have the right tools to assist them with those things.
00:26:35.440 --> 00:26:40.799
And what I'm noticing is a lot of them have DIY programs or services, they're not one-to-one coaches.
00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:47.359
They either have the group program where they show up once in a while, or they have a course that people do at their own pace, self-pace kind of things.
00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:50.079
That's what I'm seeing with the more experienced speakers.
00:26:50.240 --> 00:26:51.759
I don't personally like that model.
00:26:51.839 --> 00:26:53.759
I have no interest in selling my business to anyone.
00:26:53.839 --> 00:26:56.240
I have no interest in carrying on the legacy of it.
00:26:56.319 --> 00:26:57.680
So for me, it dies with me.
00:26:57.759 --> 00:27:00.559
Yeah, but that's just my how I want to be in my business.
00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:03.359
So you might have a different approach to what you want to do.
00:27:03.599 --> 00:27:06.960
Yeah, and I do women's group coaching for entrepreneurs on Mondays.
00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:13.920
So we have a group that we work with at called the Growth Lounge, but then I do select individual one-to-one coaching too.
00:27:14.160 --> 00:27:16.640
So yeah, so you have other things going on as well.
00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:21.599
You're not just speaking and prospecting and email marketing, you're also coaching and consulting and leading groups.
00:27:21.839 --> 00:27:25.920
So again, that capacity comes up of yeah, what is your focus?
00:27:26.079 --> 00:27:33.039
And for me, speaking and and coaching, one year speaking is more, one year coaching is more, and it just flip-flops from time to time.
00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:34.480
What is your mix for that?
00:27:34.799 --> 00:27:38.319
So, interestingly enough, because I have so many things, this is one of my little tips.
00:27:38.480 --> 00:27:42.400
So I have a little mini whiteboard on my desk, and every day is a different thing.
00:27:42.559 --> 00:27:49.440
Mondays are my podcast days, Tuesdays are prospecting, Wednesday and Thursdays are meetings, Friday is admin.
00:27:49.839 --> 00:27:53.440
And so that day I walk in and I know exactly what I'm doing.
00:27:53.680 --> 00:28:01.359
And so that that helps me to align my focus for that day and touch every part of the business once a week.
00:28:01.599 --> 00:28:02.000
Nice.
00:28:02.160 --> 00:28:02.319
Yeah.
00:28:02.480 --> 00:28:03.279
I do something similar.
00:28:03.359 --> 00:28:08.240
It's like weekly themes, and I also plan by the moon, but that's a whole nother conversation.
00:28:08.319 --> 00:28:11.039
If anyone wants to know about that, I can talk about that.
00:28:11.200 --> 00:28:16.640
I love how you compartmentalize, you know, it sounds like you're very clear on your targets, yeah, how to get to them.
00:28:16.799 --> 00:28:23.920
And um, I appreciate having you in the podcast today talking about this because I don't hear enough from the Christian and faith-based folks.
00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:27.680
And I think, you know, there are many messages to share and many stages to share them on.
00:28:27.839 --> 00:28:28.000
Yes.
00:28:28.079 --> 00:28:31.039
So I appreciate that that's where you're saying, I'm gonna go all in.
00:28:31.119 --> 00:28:34.559
I'm gonna be who I am, fully as I am, and why do I care what anyone else thinks?
00:28:34.799 --> 00:28:36.799
It's a lot easier to just be yourself.
00:28:39.680 --> 00:28:41.119
That's a mic drop.
00:28:41.359 --> 00:28:42.640
Just be yourself.
00:28:43.279 --> 00:28:43.759
Awesome.
00:28:43.920 --> 00:28:45.599
Michelle, how can we connect with you?
00:28:45.920 --> 00:28:47.119
Oh, yes, LinkedIn.
00:28:47.200 --> 00:28:48.960
Start there, Michelle von Ruden.
00:28:49.519 --> 00:28:51.440
All right, you'll see it in the show notes as well.
00:28:51.519 --> 00:28:58.160
And as we get your website and we get MVR up and running, ready to go, most valuable resource.
00:28:58.480 --> 00:28:59.920
I'll link that in the show notes as well.
00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:00.559
Stay tuned.
00:29:00.720 --> 00:29:03.519
Make sure you subscribe so that you can catch the updated website.
00:29:03.759 --> 00:29:05.039
Thanks for being in the studio, Michelle.
00:29:05.359 --> 00:29:06.079
Thank you.