Jeselle: Hey everybody, it's looking through the class. It's Giselle. me again, just me today. and we do have a guest named Michelle. And today we're gonna talk a little bit about learning disabilities and living with learning disabilities because I really truly think that a lot of us have one and it's not recognizable. And so yeah, Michelle, I'll I'll hand it over to you a little bit. How are you?
Michelle: am great yes thank you so much for having me i'm i'm so looking forward to having this conversation want to give
Jeselle: Absolutely.
Michelle: you a little bit yes i want to give you a little bit of background about me i my name is michelle steiner i live in pennsylvania with my husband bron and our two cats jack and sparrow i am
Jeselle: I love it.
Michelle: an thank you i am an author advocate photographer speaker and And I also am a paraeducator. I work at a school with students who have disabilities and I provide support for them. And I have a learning disability myself. So I find that really rewarding to do that. And I have a blog called Michelle's Mission where I write about my life with a learning disability and feature my photography. And my journey with having a learning disability started whenever I was in kindergarten. I was first diagnosed with having one. My teacher noticed that I was really struggling in the classroom to write. well not to write, I mean with tying my shoes, writing my name, that that was the big thing, and then math. And she recommended that I get tested for having a learning disability. And sure enough, I have one. they didn't call it dyscalculea at that point. They didn't know that my visual perception issues were going to prevent me from driving, and I did not had the diagnosis of limited hand dexterity until I was an adult. But they did know one thing. I was not going to be a mathematician by the time I was five or six. That's what the team knew. And I can just remember I spent all throughout my years of school really struggling. It was a struggle for me to learn and to fit in. And the bullying really started early and I it was really those years were really tough for me. But another thing that happened was I was told that I could not go to college, get my bachelor's degree, or have the job that I wanted. At first it was I couldn't go to college and they pushed to trade school and I didn't want to go to do that. And then when I got to college it was, well, you're my I had a psychiatrist telling me you're you're not gonna most likely go beyond community college. And then at college people were saying like viewing disability accommodations as cheating. I had a professor when I asked for a calculator in her class, she said, no, we use our brains, not calculators. And then I had another professor that I can remember her saying, well you're going to have limited job choices because you won't know how much art paper to give out to students someday during an art lesson. And Those were a lot of years of struggle, but I was able to graduate, get my associate's degree in early childhood education. I moved out on my own for a number of years, and that was good for me to have that independence. But I always wanted more for myself. And I got that chance to go back to university and I got my bachelor's degree with using disability supports on campus. after I've also had the dream of meeting my husband and that was something I didn't think was going to happen. I also had the dream of becoming published and that was a big deal to me because ever since I was a little girl I loved to read and write and my dad really encouraged me. He saw a story that I wrote in second or third grade and thought this wow, this is really good. And then I had a writing group that always said you should write about having a learning disability, but I did not want to write about it. And when I finally got that courage That is what really changed my life. I started to want to write more articles for the mighty. I started to write for other places. And I had my blog that I I write about and I have my photography there as well. And I also have a children's book that got published a few weeks ago about a ladybug who could encounter spots. So and my photography is one of those things too. I'm not able to drive. But that gives me that opportunity when I'm on my walks to see flowers and other things that I would miss if I was driving a car. And I realized in my life that there was so much beauty that I almost missed with having a disability. And I just I'm just forever grateful for that. And I also work as a paraeducator in a school. And I find that rewarding too, to be able to work with my students. A lot of my students have disabilities. And I get to now make that difference and to encourage them. I with my job currently I get that chance to go out and help my sip my students go into some regular education classes. And I just find that just so rewarding to be able to do that. And I always encourage them, okay, let's advocate, let's ask those questions, because one day all my students will leave me, but for so many of them their disabilities are going to be there and I want to get them to know how to be able to speak up for themselves.
Jeselle: Well I and not only that, but you are walking, breathing, living proof that your disability didn't limit you and you proved
Michelle: Right.
Jeselle: all those people wrong and so now you're just showing those kids, look, don't let that stop you. Keep going. And you know,
Michelle: Exactly.
Jeselle: you you adjusted life to fit your narrative and that's beautiful. And I I love how you did that. And And that's how it should be. It should you know, we should be able to adjust it to fit our narratives to the way we need it to fit into our lives, like a puzzle piece.
Michelle: Right, exactly.
Jeselle: Yeah, I know that I struggled with it too. I had a I had a learning disability as myself growing up and I remember teachers go telling my mom, she's faking it, or she doesn't need the extra help, or like teachers back then were very much bullies. they were one of our number one bullies growing up. I'm not gonna lie about that. I've had quite a few teachers. I had a teacher get fired because she smacked me upside the head with a book. And
Michelle: my god
Jeselle: and bullied in front bullied me in front of the class because I got one answer wrong on a on a pretest. It wasn't an actual test. And I was in like second grade when that happened and for years it just it diminished me and made me feel so small. I didn't peak until I was in high school and that's when I started was able to understand things more.
Michelle: Right.
Jeselle: And but I was always behind when it came to the class. Like Always behind. I didn't quite understand things, especially math. Math was not my strong suit.
Michelle: exactly.
Jeselle: Yeah. I think I had a speech therapy too. I had a really bad speech when it was
Michelle: I did yeah.
Jeselle: little when I was little too. my mom had to take me to speech
Michelle: Right.
Jeselle: therapy because I I the words I still have problems speaking to this day.
Michelle: Right. Well, I had speech therapy because my ears were clogged because my my tube I ha my ears were just constantly full with fluid and I had a lot of ear infections. So I wasn't hearing words correctly, like sounds. And even today, I I mean I only had it till fifth grade, but even today sometimes when my ears get clogged. It's funny, I'll hear things like I I the other day a coworker was asking for chocolate and I thought she was asking for chalk. So I sometimes I have to laugh because I I don't always hear things you know correctly or something, and then I had to like learn to kind of listen a little more. But I can now understand why that really did affect me cognitively whenever I was younger. If you can't hear things that that mean that it's not the whole thing of the disability, but that that's really hard. And for those five first five years the school had speech therapy with me. yep.
Jeselle: Well and that's the prime of where you're learning words and and everything. So of course
Michelle: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Jeselle: you're not going to you're gonna have to go through that because you're learning the words a little bit differently and what
Michelle: Right.
Jeselle: should be a CH sound is not coming out as a CH sound, it's coming out as a sh
Michelle: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And it was my essence. That that that was the thing when I was younger.
Jeselle: Well, I I really love that you are advocating for the learning disabilities because there are a lot of people who don't recognize learning disabilities.
Michelle: Mm-hmm.
Jeselle: My it's funny, my best friend and my husband are both dyslexic. And and
Michelle: Okay.
Jeselle: so sometimes and my husband's a lefty, so he writes with his left hand too. So sometimes
Michelle: Grimmy.
Jeselle: like I see misspelled words or he's telling me to shish right now playfully.
Michelle: Pega.
Jeselle: But and I'm I I'm I'm slightly I'm not as high on that. I'm slightly dyslexic myself. but seeing those, you have to learn differently. You you have to take
Michelle: Yeah.
Jeselle: your time. and and see hearing other people's stories of their learning disabilities, it's I wasn't the only one and schools are not accommodating to kids who have disabilities.
Michelle: No.
Jeselle: They are not and you have to fight. You have to get them diagn get your kid diagnosed and then you're fighting with the schools in order to get them into to get the help that they need to learn.
Michelle: Right. Exactly. And sometimes I see now with schools we don't really know sometimes what to do. I mean, w we might have sometimes we don't always wanna i if you give them something it's too easy, then they don't really learn. it's not it doesn't really Help them, but then if you get them something too hard and you want to just keep them on grade level, that's hard to then that that just overwhelms the person. I was really lucky that I got the appropriate supports. I wasn't great at math, so we tried once to go into regular ed for math, and that did not work out well. But the things I could do, I was in regular ed for, and I had the supports. And I just think that sometimes people don't know what to do. And another thing is you can't see the disability. So sometimes we might just label a kid and say, That kid's not trying. That kid's not paying attention. They just have to try harder. And that is hard for a lot of people to understand. Or even, well, how hard can this be? And it it is difficult. And I still run into that problem. you know, at my job, I mean it's a little easier because I work at a school and people are a little more f familiar with that with staff, but I still have to go and advocate and tell them I cannot help with math. I'm not able to do that and and having that open and honest communication with somebody. And all the kids know it too.
Jeselle: It's amazing. I just know that from my own personal experience and even watching it with my siblings,
Michelle: Mm-hmm.
Jeselle: the trying to get the help that they need to you know, I need a little extra time on this because I don't understand it.
Michelle: Uh-huh.
Jeselle: Especially when you go into high school, a lot of teachers
Michelle: Yeah.
Jeselle: are starting to put that I'm not helping if you don't understand it. And It it's it really they don't understand the mental pull it takes on the on them because then you've making them feel like it's making them feel like they can't succeed or they can't go further in life. And that that definitely needs to be spoken about because making a child or anybody feel that they can't go further in life, that's not
Michelle: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jeselle: fair and that's trauma on them.
Michelle: right, exactly. That really is. Because I knew that I didn't want to go to trade school, but I there was a lot of my peers that went to trade school. And I I think people thought that that was the easy way out and the college was really difficult. But I look back on that and those would have been really difficult for me. Nobody wants me to cut their hair. I don't think anyone wants me to you know, there's math involved with cooking and I can't drive a cop car. But of all those peers that I know of that went for the vocational program, none of them kept went for the the job that they studied. To four, and some of them really have struggled with addiction, other ones have really struggled with just even keeping a job. I mean, it's already difficult enough for for a lot of people with disabilities. 80% of people with disabilities are are not employed. So it it yeah, it's it's already
Jeselle: Absolutely.
Michelle: that. But when we start putting those barriers on people and we start saying, Well, you can't do it. then that just makes it even harder because people are going to wanna that might just be someone might go into a job thinking, this is so easy and then you come in and you don't love it and it really isn't that easy.
Jeselle: Well, and there and there's some jobs where people are just taking in a job because they need to be able to take care of themselves. There are people who are on disability
Michelle: Right. Exactly.
Jeselle: who are not actually getting paid a disability and so they have to work and trying to find a job that
Michelle: Yeah, that's me. Yep. Mm-hmm.
Jeselle: fits the accommodating to them. And let's be real here.
Michelle: It's hard.
Jeselle: we've had somebody on here that he broke his He he is paraphlegic from the neck down. And so he comes on here and he talks and he and he's an advocate, he's a lawyer and everything for those with disabilities. And and just like you, out shining is like a star that you are, and showing people no, we can still do this and we're we're still human too. And He was he's one advocating for wow, the thought left
Michelle: Excuse me.
Jeselle: my mind. Wow, I hate that. But he he even comes on, he talks about it and he advocates for it and
Michelle: Yay.
Jeselle: and in this, you know, how there's a lack of wheelchair accessibility and and things like that.
Michelle: Mm-hmm.
Jeselle: And and well in the workplaces, how that's where it was at. The workplaces, how there's a lot of places who do not accommodate to disabilities. And even though we have certain acts in place to protect them,
Michelle: Mm-hmm.
Jeselle: there's still places who still won't hire for that. I know I struggle, you know, just getting, you know, pr have being pregnant and having to slow on my workload, they weren't as accommodating as they should have been for me. And I so I couldn't in imagine if it was somebody else who had disabilities and you know, who needed that accommodation. And so I I know that we still our our society still diminishes the the disabilities.
Michelle: Y you're right. I mean, it is hard to find an employer that is accommodating. And people sometimes even think, okay, I'm gonna work for a place where they provide services for people with disabilities. Sure enough, surely they'll understand. Sometimes that I remember that sometimes that's the worst experience. I I work for a place that didn't understand learning disabilities, they really understood physical disabilities. And The job was not working out. we tried accommodations, but it none of that worked. And I was let go from that. And they even thought that I was making that up to get unemployment. And
Jeselle: Wow.
Michelle: it's right. And that was a hard job to be at. But I mean, I I've learned from that experience though. on how to kind of go in and to communicate and to to be able to do that. But it you're right, not everybody wants to hire somebody with a disability. Not every employer can accommodate. And what's interesting with me is I do have that privilege when I go in for an interview that people don't know that I have a disability unless
Jeselle: Mm-hmm.
Michelle: I choose to share it. And that that is a privilege. But it also turns out to be really difficult when you get the job. Because people think, well, you what's wrong with you? You look normal. You didn't tell you know, you might not have said that at at the interview. And sometimes I have disclosed and it it worked out okay too. I mean, it it really just depends on the place. But if I don't speak up for myself then I have more problems because people think, well, you look normal. You must be lazy, you must be unmotivated, you must be just trying to make mistakes to to get unemployment, to get attention. And it it's really so important that I know how to be able to advocate and to be able to communicate my needs and to be able to work things out with them.
Jeselle: So when it comes to say a child who is in a school that's needing more advocacy
Michelle: Mm-hmm.
Jeselle: for their learning disability, how how do we go about that for parents who might be having struggles with that?
Michelle: One of the things my mom and dad one time I was real little explained to me that I had a learning disability in really simple terms and my brain worked differently. And that was better information than what I was getting from my peers. I know a lot of times people don't want to label kids, but sometimes just knowing that, having that information, it starts to grow on them that okay, I'm I have a disability and I might learn differently. And I also think too that advocacy piece is so important. I might even I'll I'll do that with all my students. That I'm with. If I'm working one-on-one with a student in a class, and let's say they weren't there the day, and the teacher will say, Okay, whoever missed the assignment, raise your hand. Some of the kids that I work with that they they won't raise their hand. And I'll be like, You gotta raise your hand. You have to, it's working on doing that. I've had students in the past, they might have needed help on an assignment. And I would say, okay, well, let's go ask your teacher. but I'm afraid. I'm like, well, I'll go with you. And one of the greatest joys is when I have a student that was really scared in the beginning of the year to ask for help and by the end of the year they're raising their hand, they're talking to the teacher by themselves and they don't need me.
Jeselle: Yeah, I and I I really do think that if we start working with that at a younger age and knowing and recognizing
Michelle: Mm-hmm.
Jeselle: from a younger age, it will help them building that confidence and and not and I do feel like that this comes in in play where there's other kids who will bully them because they learn differently and
Michelle: Yes.
Jeselle: and everything and that because now they're getting that trauma and shying away from you know I being me being different, you know, and we're scared
Michelle: Right.
Jeselle: to be different. That society makes us so scared to be different from each other. And I feel that helping kids not be scared of being different and let them see that it's okay, they can still thrive.
Michelle: Exactly. I mean that's okay to be different. It's it's all right to be some not to be like everybody else. And I think that that's one of the first things is just acknowledging that differ that difference. And it's not always a bad thing too. And I also think it's knowing those I can't control what somebody else thinks about me, what somebody else says or their actions, but I can control mine. And I can also control just maybe how I think about the situation too. And another thing is I can't control that I have a brain that works differently or and a brain that can't do math. But I can control I can think of the act things I am good at. I love to read, I love to write, I love to take pictures, and when I engage in those activities, I don't feel like I'm disabled. And whenever I focus more on the stuff that I can't do, that's when I feel more frustrated.
Jeselle: Absolutely. Absolutely. I can I I understand that I get frustrated in things that I I'm like, I can't do this. And sometimes I have to push myself through it, and sometimes I'm calling for help. I'm like, I don't understand this. and
Michelle: Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Jeselle: thriving in what we I getting people to thrive in what they truly are good at, such as, you know. I love photography too. I do photography myself. And so, you know, I love that I can go for a walk and take pictures.
Michelle: Mm-hmm.
Jeselle: you know, there's I'm not I'm good at writing, but I'm not good with English. You know, so speaking English is not my strong suit, you know.
Michelle: And that's okay too. I mean, what a lot of people see is they don't see the finished draft. They don't see the what thing you might bring to your writers group. And the bet the main thing is get your ideas out on paper and then we add it. And that's what a that's the beauty of the writing group. But there are people a lot of us have that same issue in our writing group. We're like, we love to write, but we can't catch a lot of the grammar mistakes. God did not make me an editor, and that's okay though. I mean, there are tools out there to help. Yeah, but I think it's just really knowing where you need that that the support and knowing where, okay, maybe I can be put or challenged or something. And and what do I enjoy doing. I think that that's definitely out there too.
Jeselle: Yeah, I I really love how your your perspective on things and and you know, like I said before, you didn't let anything stop you, even though you had faced the bully and the negativity and the well,
Michelle: Mm-hmm.
Jeselle: you don't look disabled type situation
Michelle: Yeah.
Jeselle: and still go, Well, I am and guess what? I'm still pursuing what I want to do with my life. And
Michelle: Yep.
Jeselle: That is so inspirational, Michelle. Like you don't realize how amazing that is because a lot of times those negative things bring so many people down and they just give up.
Michelle: Right. And and I was there before. I was at that place where it was hard where I did believe a lot of what people were saying. But I still pushed forward, but I was negative for a lot of years. I just focused on the things I couldn't do and had this box of thinking, okay, I'll be happy when and successful whenever I get rid of my disability. Well, my disability didn't go away when I graduated. It didn't go away when I got published or I had a job. But what what has happened in my life was especially after university, that's when I got my confidence back. And I just think that that's the thing. the disability might not go away, but there's so much else in my life that I I can be successful not wi with one. It's because of that and I'm able to have w what I do because of having a disability. And w without that I don't know if I would be the empathetic person that I am that that my students need.
Jeselle: So what was the moment 'cause you say you had hit that after universities when you've got your confidence back? What was it that brought your confidence back, if you remember?
Michelle: I remember it's when I graduated, graduation day. And I ru would remember that whenever I had a really bad day and I was really struggling, I would walk past where we had a graduation at and I would say, you know, you're gonna graduate there. It's gonna be this warm sunny day, and you're gonna walk across that stage and you're gonna get your diploma. You're gonna get that degree. And on the really di difficult days, many many winters that that I did that too, that we we just I passed by there. And that's exactly what happened a few years after that. I walked it was a beautiful May day, warm, and in that I walked right across there to the stage and I got my degree. And that was a moment that I was just so proud and I was so happy. And that's when my confidence came and I thought I can go out and help people, even though I have a disability, I can still go out and help other people. And that's just something that I've really have wanted in my life is for people with disabilities to be successful in life.
Jeselle: So amazing. You know, a thought just totally was there and then tumbled out of my head.
Michelle: I
Jeselle: It it's been one of those days. you know, I've been one of those kids that like that that didn't do well in school. I remember always seeking help and I always had one or two teachers that were very understanding and were patient with me. Or I had one teacher that
Michelle: Yeah.
Jeselle: explained things so differently and was able to break it down. It helped
Michelle: Mm-hmm.
Jeselle: me understand it. But there's I know that there's like kids that are like needing extra time with homework and and all these things. And some parents don't even know how to recognize when their kid needs the help. Because some
Michelle: Right.
Jeselle: parents like like we said was, well, you're you're faking it or you're well what's going on with you. You need to understand this better. And or or very or hard on their kids. And I think that's a why a lot of people I mean I feel like there's a lot more people out there who have learning disabilities who just have not come forth about it because their parents or Some family members told them that it it doesn't exist.
Michelle: And that is so true. There's a lot of people that maybe parents who don't know and their kid might have went through school. I I knew kids that struggled in school and maybe and the at most the services they got was resource room. They weren't getting a lot of that and their parents were very hard on them. And they suffered. And I think sometimes like with my parents, they didn't test anybody for that. So they didn't know. Ha ha
Jeselle: So I got a question for you, and this might be a little out there, but if there was a way for us to because we still have the issues of not recognizing learning
Michelle: Mm-hmm.
Jeselle: disabilities, do you think it would be better if we started testing our children for learning disabilities at younger ages? Like if the school started testing them or parents started taking them to I don't know who does the testing for learning disabilities anyone.
Michelle: Right.
Jeselle: but if we started making those efforts
Michelle: Think the sooner the better. I think it should start when a child is in kindergarten and there's even a push to even do dyslexia screenings because we can tell. I I if you have a really good team, you can get an idea. Nobody has a crystal ball to say, okay, this one's gonna go to college, this one's going to go to trade school, this one's going to maybe just work. But we do have an idea when a child is young, where they're where some of the struggles are going to be with the disability. Not all of them, but and so I think that's so important. And I think the parents need to be really working in the classroom with their teacher. If they notice that their child is struggling, they need to call the teacher and say, I'm really noticing that my student, my my child's really having a hard time. And if a teacher notices that that the student is struggling in the classroom, they need to communicate with the parents about that. And I always say go and get the child tested. The worst thing that might come out is a the child may just be some may not we may not know what it is. That could be one or just maybe For some reason they are struggling. And I think that's the hardest part too, because there's some kids that just don't test for that with that or it's not identified with that. We we don't have a definitive answer. That that's the hard part. There's not a blood test.
Jeselle: Yeah.
Michelle: there's nothing that can give you that definitive answer. But we can screen and we can also, like the school psychologist can go and it's one of those things where they can make a diagnosis. But it's technically not it's it's for the school at that point, but as an adult, if you wanna have services, you have to go to a a psychiatrist and work through like Office for Vocational Rehabilitation as a as an adult. And they can connect you with a psychiatrist to to be able to evaluate you. But I I just think even at that young age though. If you truly have that, I I think that it's important that we do give that diagnosis early. My mom and dad thought too when I was in preschool, she'll catch up. and they suggested another year of school. I don't think it would have done any good, but I think even at that really young age too, just having that testing would would have you know, i is so important. But I was really lucky. And I just hope that everybody else has that opportunity if their child is struggling to be able to get those services and accommodations.
Jeselle: Wow. I I really like how you you explain that. I had a question prepared and it My questions keep walking out the door today, Michelle. Why do you want why
Michelle: It's okay.
Jeselle: do you keep doing that to me? man.
Michelle: Yeah.
Jeselle: well I was gonna say that the curriculum is the same across the board and it it
Michelle: Right.
Jeselle: doesn't cater to one side or the other. It's just the same across the board. And you know,
Michelle: No. Yep.
Jeselle: a lot of public schools sorry, itch in the eye, a lot of
Michelle: That's okay, I hear ya.
Jeselle: A lot of public schools, you know, from being an older sister and going through it myself,
Michelle: Yeah.
Jeselle: they have a tendency of teachers not paying attention. They don't see
Michelle: Yeah.
Jeselle: it. And sometimes there's parents who are not paying attention and there's no communication between the
Michelle: Mm-hmm.
Jeselle: two. And
Michelle: Right.
Jeselle: that and I think that's the biggest thing. Like, I My mom struggles with that right now. My brother, he is he has both AD both sides of ADHD. So he is everywhere. He's very high strong, very hyper,
Michelle: Yeah.
Jeselle: very intelligent. And so like last year, he that boy was failing everything. And we're like, what's going on, sir? And teachers
Michelle: Right.
Jeselle: are not reaching out, they're just saying behavior issues, behavior issues, behavior issues. instead of you know paying attention more and or going hey let's you know let's talk about maybe after class or you know come to me during lunch break like teachers there's a lot
Michelle: Mm-hmm.
Jeselle: of teachers who don't take the extra time anymore from our experiences.
Michelle: Right.
Jeselle: I had a couple teachers that paid zero attention to me. they just I was failing at like English. Like once again, English. I you put me in an English class and I'm going, okay, I can read
Michelle: Yeah.
Jeselle: the book. I can read. That's the problem. But have me write and I it's not credible.
Michelle: Right, and that's yeah, exactly. And that's I think that's another thing about we don't understand. We think reading is just about read reading the words and being a fluent reader. There's different things with reading that that goes into that. I some I struggled with reading comprehension. I've I could read really well. But sometimes just getting the the comprehension or the right information, that that was something that I really had to that that was hard for me to do. And when we think about writing too, some some people struggle with that. Somebody could be a good reader, but maybe they're they really struggle with writing. And I think that that's important that we'd we'd really meet the child where they're at. And that's I think if I had one wish for people with learning disabilities, whether it was a child in school or it was an adult that was in college or trying to find a job. I wish we had this customized approach for every individual person and not just this cookie cutter approach that says, okay, you have a learning disability. Well everyone that has a learning disability is going to get these services. Yep.
Jeselle: Yeah. Yeah, honestly. And I and sadly I really don't think we would ever get there with with how how
Michelle: I know.
Jeselle: our society is. I I hate to say it and be so but I just want to be so truthful about it because the way our society is, we're still very
Michelle: Mm-hmm.
Jeselle: we're we still don't flex around with it and even if we push for it, the people are still going to be, Well, is that even real?
Michelle: Right.
Jeselle: Which, you know, like you said, there's not we don't have diagnosis for all disabilities, but do you have like an idea of how many different learning disabilities there are of
Michelle: I know that there's We have dyslexia with reading. We have dysgraphia, which can be writing. I have that with my handwriting. you cannot read that. But I mean it can just maybe even getting ideas down on paper can be tough for some people. There's ones that involve ju just being how how somebody might move, visual perception, that's a big one. Everyone thinks, I have that and they think, why why don't you just wear glasses? And they don't understand that there's more like how our brain does. There's you know disabilities that that are out there that you know might just affect like coordination. There's ones that that that'll just affect executive functioning. that that's a a big one that well that we see in a lot of them. Sometimes it can just be how your brain processes language. And it's there's a lot of of how our brains work that can really be affected by having a learning disability. And one of the key things with having one is you'll have one area that's really strong and then you have that other area that you really struggle with. And that's the discrepancy theory. And for me I'll have the really strong area in English and reading, but If you put me in math or something with visual perception, I'm th there's a big gap between that.
Jeselle: What I'm just curious. I'm really curious about the visual perception. how exactly does that work, if you don't mind me asking?
Michelle: Sure, no problem. I have a hard time with my reaction time and I'll blink whenever I have a ball or something comes to my field of vision. And when I was younger, we just thought, okay, you're not gonna be the nat you're not gonna be an athlete. But when I was older, as as a teenager, driving was a big deal. And my parents thought, Well, let's wait a year just to see if the brain matures a little bit. And then About when I was turning 17, my parents gave me some little tasks to do before we even thought about the license. One of them was to go mow the field. And instead of making long, beautiful lines, I ended up making circles, which I now know where crop circles come from. And I almost ran into the family garage again.
Jeselle: I love it. No, I mean not a lot of people know where crop where crop circles come from and I I
Michelle: Yep.
Jeselle: took me a long time to know.
Michelle: Yep, there we go. I got that. I I I solved that mystery. And my parents had me get tested. we went into a rehabilitation hospital for an evaluation. And I passed, my my eyesight was twenty twenty. I knew what to do, if the car would break down, I understood the responsibilities of driving. And it was all going fine and good until we got the visual perception part. And they said, based upon this, we can't recommend that you get your license. And it was like a hundred pounds was lifted off of me. And I just thought, if I I mean, legally I could go out and get my license, then I could drive, but I just thought if I would hurt somebody, if my visual perception would go out or I hurt myself. I d I don't know how I would live with that. And I I could trip over air and that's just one of those things I c I'm not able to do.
Jeselle: He got me questioning wh if that's the reason why I can trip over myself standing. Cause
Michelle: Mm-hmm.
Jeselle: I used to just stand there like when I was a teenager.
Michelle: Yeah.
Jeselle: I would just stand there and we would get ready to cross the street and all of a sudden I just trip and my mom was like, Did you just trip over air? Yeah. Like, and maybe that's where people kind of are the clumsy, where we would get the clumsiness from.
Michelle: Right.
Jeselle: That would that makes more sense to me. it's we just have different variables of it where it's you know, one can be a little bit worse than the other where, you know, so it's not as bad.
Michelle: Right. And and that's one of the things I try to really work on, like whenever I do work out. I mean, it's one of those things, just where is my body at in space? It doesn't get rid of that, but it does help to learn, okay, this is where I'm at, and not to be able to fall as much or how we do fall. because that's something that everybody will do. I'm just more prone to doing it. And but yeah, you're you're right. I mean, I could just Trip over stuff like that.
Jeselle: I appreciate you being you and so open and so and and vulnerable about speaking about these things because this is a vulnerability. And you know,
Michelle: Mm-hmm.
Jeselle: and helping people be more aware of the aspect of learning disabilities and and also teaching that like we said, there can be different levels of it. You some people just may not have a strong level of a learning disability. I know that you said you write a blog about it and you do a where can people find that blog?
Michelle: You can find me in my blog at www dot michellesmission dot com.
Jeselle: It's so awesome. And your little kids book I w I need to know because I have a little and I would love to read that to her.
Michelle: Sure, you can find that on my blog as well, under my store. Yep.
Jeselle: All right. I just want to make sure we got that out there. Because sometimes we Yeah, we s we
Michelle: Thank you. No, I appreciate that.
Jeselle: sometimes miss miss getting people's information out there and I really like to make sure we get that out there. Is there anything that we're not picking up on on this conversation that you really want to get out there?
Michelle: Well I think we got everything.
Jeselle: Okay. any other information, any bl wow, socials. I said blog socials that and if you know people can follow you on. Do you do any like I can't get the question to piece together right.
Michelle: I'm on Facebook and Instagram if anybody wants to follow me there. Yeah, you can find me.
Jeselle: All right. Michelle, thank you. Absolutely thank you for reaching out for one. I know that you reached out, I think you reached out to another podcaster of ours and she sent you our way.
Michelle: Yes.
Jeselle: And I'm just glad that you're doing this work, doing this mission, and I am I I'm excited to be a part of this with you.
Michelle: Thank you.
Jeselle: And for all of our listeners out there for looking through the glass, we can follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok as well. and we do have our website, litg.com. And yeah, we have you can get our newsletter that we did not keep up on. And that we were horrible about it. and then we you can have our about page and you can see all of our other podcast episodes. If you do not feel like going to any other platform, thank y'all for listening in for looking through the glass.
Michelle: am great yes thank you so much for having me i'm i'm so looking forward to having this conversation want to give
Jeselle: Absolutely.
Michelle: you a little bit yes i want to give you a little bit of background about me i my name is michelle steiner i live in pennsylvania with my husband bron and our two cats jack and sparrow i am
Jeselle: I love it.
Michelle: an thank you i am an author advocate photographer speaker and And I also am a paraeducator. I work at a school with students who have disabilities and I provide support for them. And I have a learning disability myself. So I find that really rewarding to do that. And I have a blog called Michelle's Mission where I write about my life with a learning disability and feature my photography. And my journey with having a learning disability started whenever I was in kindergarten. I was first diagnosed with having one. My teacher noticed that I was really struggling in the classroom to write. well not to write, I mean with tying my shoes, writing my name, that that was the big thing, and then math. And she recommended that I get tested for having a learning disability. And sure enough, I have one. they didn't call it dyscalculea at that point. They didn't know that my visual perception issues were going to prevent me from driving, and I did not had the diagnosis of limited hand dexterity until I was an adult. But they did know one thing. I was not going to be a mathematician by the time I was five or six. That's what the team knew. And I can just remember I spent all throughout my years of school really struggling. It was a struggle for me to learn and to fit in. And the bullying really started early and I it was really those years were really tough for me. But another thing that happened was I was told that I could not go to college, get my bachelor's degree, or have the job that I wanted. At first it was I couldn't go to college and they pushed to trade school and I didn't want to go to do that. And then when I got to college it was, well, you're my I had a psychiatrist telling me you're you're not gonna most likely go beyond community college. And then at college people were saying like viewing disability accommodations as cheating. I had a professor when I asked for a calculator in her class, she said, no, we use our brains, not calculators. And then I had another professor that I can remember her saying, well you're going to have limited job choices because you won't know how much art paper to give out to students someday during an art lesson. And Those were a lot of years of struggle, but I was able to graduate, get my associate's degree in early childhood education. I moved out on my own for a number of years, and that was good for me to have that independence. But I always wanted more for myself. And I got that chance to go back to university and I got my bachelor's degree with using disability supports on campus. after I've also had the dream of meeting my husband and that was something I didn't think was going to happen. I also had the dream of becoming published and that was a big deal to me because ever since I was a little girl I loved to read and write and my dad really encouraged me. He saw a story that I wrote in second or third grade and thought this wow, this is really good. And then I had a writing group that always said you should write about having a learning disability, but I did not want to write about it. And when I finally got that courage That is what really changed my life. I started to want to write more articles for the mighty. I started to write for other places. And I had my blog that I I write about and I have my photography there as well. And I also have a children's book that got published a few weeks ago about a ladybug who could encounter spots. So and my photography is one of those things too. I'm not able to drive. But that gives me that opportunity when I'm on my walks to see flowers and other things that I would miss if I was driving a car. And I realized in my life that there was so much beauty that I almost missed with having a disability. And I just I'm just forever grateful for that. And I also work as a paraeducator in a school. And I find that rewarding too, to be able to work with my students. A lot of my students have disabilities. And I get to now make that difference and to encourage them. I with my job currently I get that chance to go out and help my sip my students go into some regular education classes. And I just find that just so rewarding to be able to do that. And I always encourage them, okay, let's advocate, let's ask those questions, because one day all my students will leave me, but for so many of them their disabilities are going to be there and I want to get them to know how to be able to speak up for themselves.
Jeselle: Well I and not only that, but you are walking, breathing, living proof that your disability didn't limit you and you proved
Michelle: Right.
Jeselle: all those people wrong and so now you're just showing those kids, look, don't let that stop you. Keep going. And you know,
Michelle: Exactly.
Jeselle: you you adjusted life to fit your narrative and that's beautiful. And I I love how you did that. And And that's how it should be. It should you know, we should be able to adjust it to fit our narratives to the way we need it to fit into our lives, like a puzzle piece.
Michelle: Right, exactly.
Jeselle: Yeah, I know that I struggled with it too. I had a I had a learning disability as myself growing up and I remember teachers go telling my mom, she's faking it, or she doesn't need the extra help, or like teachers back then were very much bullies. they were one of our number one bullies growing up. I'm not gonna lie about that. I've had quite a few teachers. I had a teacher get fired because she smacked me upside the head with a book. And
Michelle: my god
Jeselle: and bullied in front bullied me in front of the class because I got one answer wrong on a on a pretest. It wasn't an actual test. And I was in like second grade when that happened and for years it just it diminished me and made me feel so small. I didn't peak until I was in high school and that's when I started was able to understand things more.
Michelle: Right.
Jeselle: And but I was always behind when it came to the class. Like Always behind. I didn't quite understand things, especially math. Math was not my strong suit.
Michelle: exactly.
Jeselle: Yeah. I think I had a speech therapy too. I had a really bad speech when it was
Michelle: I did yeah.
Jeselle: little when I was little too. my mom had to take me to speech
Michelle: Right.
Jeselle: therapy because I I the words I still have problems speaking to this day.
Michelle: Right. Well, I had speech therapy because my ears were clogged because my my tube I ha my ears were just constantly full with fluid and I had a lot of ear infections. So I wasn't hearing words correctly, like sounds. And even today, I I mean I only had it till fifth grade, but even today sometimes when my ears get clogged. It's funny, I'll hear things like I I the other day a coworker was asking for chocolate and I thought she was asking for chalk. So I sometimes I have to laugh because I I don't always hear things you know correctly or something, and then I had to like learn to kind of listen a little more. But I can now understand why that really did affect me cognitively whenever I was younger. If you can't hear things that that mean that it's not the whole thing of the disability, but that that's really hard. And for those five first five years the school had speech therapy with me. yep.
Jeselle: Well and that's the prime of where you're learning words and and everything. So of course
Michelle: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Jeselle: you're not going to you're gonna have to go through that because you're learning the words a little bit differently and what
Michelle: Right.
Jeselle: should be a CH sound is not coming out as a CH sound, it's coming out as a sh
Michelle: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And it was my essence. That that that was the thing when I was younger.
Jeselle: Well, I I really love that you are advocating for the learning disabilities because there are a lot of people who don't recognize learning disabilities.
Michelle: Mm-hmm.
Jeselle: My it's funny, my best friend and my husband are both dyslexic. And and
Michelle: Okay.
Jeselle: so sometimes and my husband's a lefty, so he writes with his left hand too. So sometimes
Michelle: Grimmy.
Jeselle: like I see misspelled words or he's telling me to shish right now playfully.
Michelle: Pega.
Jeselle: But and I'm I I'm I'm slightly I'm not as high on that. I'm slightly dyslexic myself. but seeing those, you have to learn differently. You you have to take
Michelle: Yeah.
Jeselle: your time. and and see hearing other people's stories of their learning disabilities, it's I wasn't the only one and schools are not accommodating to kids who have disabilities.
Michelle: No.
Jeselle: They are not and you have to fight. You have to get them diagn get your kid diagnosed and then you're fighting with the schools in order to get them into to get the help that they need to learn.
Michelle: Right. Exactly. And sometimes I see now with schools we don't really know sometimes what to do. I mean, w we might have sometimes we don't always wanna i if you give them something it's too easy, then they don't really learn. it's not it doesn't really Help them, but then if you get them something too hard and you want to just keep them on grade level, that's hard to then that that just overwhelms the person. I was really lucky that I got the appropriate supports. I wasn't great at math, so we tried once to go into regular ed for math, and that did not work out well. But the things I could do, I was in regular ed for, and I had the supports. And I just think that sometimes people don't know what to do. And another thing is you can't see the disability. So sometimes we might just label a kid and say, That kid's not trying. That kid's not paying attention. They just have to try harder. And that is hard for a lot of people to understand. Or even, well, how hard can this be? And it it is difficult. And I still run into that problem. you know, at my job, I mean it's a little easier because I work at a school and people are a little more f familiar with that with staff, but I still have to go and advocate and tell them I cannot help with math. I'm not able to do that and and having that open and honest communication with somebody. And all the kids know it too.
Jeselle: It's amazing. I just know that from my own personal experience and even watching it with my siblings,
Michelle: Mm-hmm.
Jeselle: the trying to get the help that they need to you know, I need a little extra time on this because I don't understand it.
Michelle: Uh-huh.
Jeselle: Especially when you go into high school, a lot of teachers
Michelle: Yeah.
Jeselle: are starting to put that I'm not helping if you don't understand it. And It it's it really they don't understand the mental pull it takes on the on them because then you've making them feel like it's making them feel like they can't succeed or they can't go further in life. And that that definitely needs to be spoken about because making a child or anybody feel that they can't go further in life, that's not
Michelle: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jeselle: fair and that's trauma on them.
Michelle: right, exactly. That really is. Because I knew that I didn't want to go to trade school, but I there was a lot of my peers that went to trade school. And I I think people thought that that was the easy way out and the college was really difficult. But I look back on that and those would have been really difficult for me. Nobody wants me to cut their hair. I don't think anyone wants me to you know, there's math involved with cooking and I can't drive a cop car. But of all those peers that I know of that went for the vocational program, none of them kept went for the the job that they studied. To four, and some of them really have struggled with addiction, other ones have really struggled with just even keeping a job. I mean, it's already difficult enough for for a lot of people with disabilities. 80% of people with disabilities are are not employed. So it it yeah, it's it's already
Jeselle: Absolutely.
Michelle: that. But when we start putting those barriers on people and we start saying, Well, you can't do it. then that just makes it even harder because people are going to wanna that might just be someone might go into a job thinking, this is so easy and then you come in and you don't love it and it really isn't that easy.
Jeselle: Well, and there and there's some jobs where people are just taking in a job because they need to be able to take care of themselves. There are people who are on disability
Michelle: Right. Exactly.
Jeselle: who are not actually getting paid a disability and so they have to work and trying to find a job that
Michelle: Yeah, that's me. Yep. Mm-hmm.
Jeselle: fits the accommodating to them. And let's be real here.
Michelle: It's hard.
Jeselle: we've had somebody on here that he broke his He he is paraphlegic from the neck down. And so he comes on here and he talks and he and he's an advocate, he's a lawyer and everything for those with disabilities. And and just like you, out shining is like a star that you are, and showing people no, we can still do this and we're we're still human too. And He was he's one advocating for wow, the thought left
Michelle: Excuse me.
Jeselle: my mind. Wow, I hate that. But he he even comes on, he talks about it and he advocates for it and
Michelle: Yay.
Jeselle: and in this, you know, how there's a lack of wheelchair accessibility and and things like that.
Michelle: Mm-hmm.
Jeselle: And and well in the workplaces, how that's where it was at. The workplaces, how there's a lot of places who do not accommodate to disabilities. And even though we have certain acts in place to protect them,
Michelle: Mm-hmm.
Jeselle: there's still places who still won't hire for that. I know I struggle, you know, just getting, you know, pr have being pregnant and having to slow on my workload, they weren't as accommodating as they should have been for me. And I so I couldn't in imagine if it was somebody else who had disabilities and you know, who needed that accommodation. And so I I know that we still our our society still diminishes the the disabilities.
Michelle: Y you're right. I mean, it is hard to find an employer that is accommodating. And people sometimes even think, okay, I'm gonna work for a place where they provide services for people with disabilities. Sure enough, surely they'll understand. Sometimes that I remember that sometimes that's the worst experience. I I work for a place that didn't understand learning disabilities, they really understood physical disabilities. And The job was not working out. we tried accommodations, but it none of that worked. And I was let go from that. And they even thought that I was making that up to get unemployment. And
Jeselle: Wow.
Michelle: it's right. And that was a hard job to be at. But I mean, I I've learned from that experience though. on how to kind of go in and to communicate and to to be able to do that. But it you're right, not everybody wants to hire somebody with a disability. Not every employer can accommodate. And what's interesting with me is I do have that privilege when I go in for an interview that people don't know that I have a disability unless
Jeselle: Mm-hmm.
Michelle: I choose to share it. And that that is a privilege. But it also turns out to be really difficult when you get the job. Because people think, well, you what's wrong with you? You look normal. You didn't tell you know, you might not have said that at at the interview. And sometimes I have disclosed and it it worked out okay too. I mean, it it really just depends on the place. But if I don't speak up for myself then I have more problems because people think, well, you look normal. You must be lazy, you must be unmotivated, you must be just trying to make mistakes to to get unemployment, to get attention. And it it's really so important that I know how to be able to advocate and to be able to communicate my needs and to be able to work things out with them.
Jeselle: So when it comes to say a child who is in a school that's needing more advocacy
Michelle: Mm-hmm.
Jeselle: for their learning disability, how how do we go about that for parents who might be having struggles with that?
Michelle: One of the things my mom and dad one time I was real little explained to me that I had a learning disability in really simple terms and my brain worked differently. And that was better information than what I was getting from my peers. I know a lot of times people don't want to label kids, but sometimes just knowing that, having that information, it starts to grow on them that okay, I'm I have a disability and I might learn differently. And I also think too that advocacy piece is so important. I might even I'll I'll do that with all my students. That I'm with. If I'm working one-on-one with a student in a class, and let's say they weren't there the day, and the teacher will say, Okay, whoever missed the assignment, raise your hand. Some of the kids that I work with that they they won't raise their hand. And I'll be like, You gotta raise your hand. You have to, it's working on doing that. I've had students in the past, they might have needed help on an assignment. And I would say, okay, well, let's go ask your teacher. but I'm afraid. I'm like, well, I'll go with you. And one of the greatest joys is when I have a student that was really scared in the beginning of the year to ask for help and by the end of the year they're raising their hand, they're talking to the teacher by themselves and they don't need me.
Jeselle: Yeah, I and I I really do think that if we start working with that at a younger age and knowing and recognizing
Michelle: Mm-hmm.
Jeselle: from a younger age, it will help them building that confidence and and not and I do feel like that this comes in in play where there's other kids who will bully them because they learn differently and
Michelle: Yes.
Jeselle: and everything and that because now they're getting that trauma and shying away from you know I being me being different, you know, and we're scared
Michelle: Right.
Jeselle: to be different. That society makes us so scared to be different from each other. And I feel that helping kids not be scared of being different and let them see that it's okay, they can still thrive.
Michelle: Exactly. I mean that's okay to be different. It's it's all right to be some not to be like everybody else. And I think that that's one of the first things is just acknowledging that differ that difference. And it's not always a bad thing too. And I also think it's knowing those I can't control what somebody else thinks about me, what somebody else says or their actions, but I can control mine. And I can also control just maybe how I think about the situation too. And another thing is I can't control that I have a brain that works differently or and a brain that can't do math. But I can control I can think of the act things I am good at. I love to read, I love to write, I love to take pictures, and when I engage in those activities, I don't feel like I'm disabled. And whenever I focus more on the stuff that I can't do, that's when I feel more frustrated.
Jeselle: Absolutely. Absolutely. I can I I understand that I get frustrated in things that I I'm like, I can't do this. And sometimes I have to push myself through it, and sometimes I'm calling for help. I'm like, I don't understand this. and
Michelle: Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Jeselle: thriving in what we I getting people to thrive in what they truly are good at, such as, you know. I love photography too. I do photography myself. And so, you know, I love that I can go for a walk and take pictures.
Michelle: Mm-hmm.
Jeselle: you know, there's I'm not I'm good at writing, but I'm not good with English. You know, so speaking English is not my strong suit, you know.
Michelle: And that's okay too. I mean, what a lot of people see is they don't see the finished draft. They don't see the what thing you might bring to your writers group. And the bet the main thing is get your ideas out on paper and then we add it. And that's what a that's the beauty of the writing group. But there are people a lot of us have that same issue in our writing group. We're like, we love to write, but we can't catch a lot of the grammar mistakes. God did not make me an editor, and that's okay though. I mean, there are tools out there to help. Yeah, but I think it's just really knowing where you need that that the support and knowing where, okay, maybe I can be put or challenged or something. And and what do I enjoy doing. I think that that's definitely out there too.
Jeselle: Yeah, I I really love how your your perspective on things and and you know, like I said before, you didn't let anything stop you, even though you had faced the bully and the negativity and the well,
Michelle: Mm-hmm.
Jeselle: you don't look disabled type situation
Michelle: Yeah.
Jeselle: and still go, Well, I am and guess what? I'm still pursuing what I want to do with my life. And
Michelle: Yep.
Jeselle: That is so inspirational, Michelle. Like you don't realize how amazing that is because a lot of times those negative things bring so many people down and they just give up.
Michelle: Right. And and I was there before. I was at that place where it was hard where I did believe a lot of what people were saying. But I still pushed forward, but I was negative for a lot of years. I just focused on the things I couldn't do and had this box of thinking, okay, I'll be happy when and successful whenever I get rid of my disability. Well, my disability didn't go away when I graduated. It didn't go away when I got published or I had a job. But what what has happened in my life was especially after university, that's when I got my confidence back. And I just think that that's the thing. the disability might not go away, but there's so much else in my life that I I can be successful not wi with one. It's because of that and I'm able to have w what I do because of having a disability. And w without that I don't know if I would be the empathetic person that I am that that my students need.
Jeselle: So what was the moment 'cause you say you had hit that after universities when you've got your confidence back? What was it that brought your confidence back, if you remember?
Michelle: I remember it's when I graduated, graduation day. And I ru would remember that whenever I had a really bad day and I was really struggling, I would walk past where we had a graduation at and I would say, you know, you're gonna graduate there. It's gonna be this warm sunny day, and you're gonna walk across that stage and you're gonna get your diploma. You're gonna get that degree. And on the really di difficult days, many many winters that that I did that too, that we we just I passed by there. And that's exactly what happened a few years after that. I walked it was a beautiful May day, warm, and in that I walked right across there to the stage and I got my degree. And that was a moment that I was just so proud and I was so happy. And that's when my confidence came and I thought I can go out and help people, even though I have a disability, I can still go out and help other people. And that's just something that I've really have wanted in my life is for people with disabilities to be successful in life.
Jeselle: So amazing. You know, a thought just totally was there and then tumbled out of my head.
Michelle: I
Jeselle: It it's been one of those days. you know, I've been one of those kids that like that that didn't do well in school. I remember always seeking help and I always had one or two teachers that were very understanding and were patient with me. Or I had one teacher that
Michelle: Yeah.
Jeselle: explained things so differently and was able to break it down. It helped
Michelle: Mm-hmm.
Jeselle: me understand it. But there's I know that there's like kids that are like needing extra time with homework and and all these things. And some parents don't even know how to recognize when their kid needs the help. Because some
Michelle: Right.
Jeselle: parents like like we said was, well, you're you're faking it or you're well what's going on with you. You need to understand this better. And or or very or hard on their kids. And I think that's a why a lot of people I mean I feel like there's a lot more people out there who have learning disabilities who just have not come forth about it because their parents or Some family members told them that it it doesn't exist.
Michelle: And that is so true. There's a lot of people that maybe parents who don't know and their kid might have went through school. I I knew kids that struggled in school and maybe and the at most the services they got was resource room. They weren't getting a lot of that and their parents were very hard on them. And they suffered. And I think sometimes like with my parents, they didn't test anybody for that. So they didn't know. Ha ha
Jeselle: So I got a question for you, and this might be a little out there, but if there was a way for us to because we still have the issues of not recognizing learning
Michelle: Mm-hmm.
Jeselle: disabilities, do you think it would be better if we started testing our children for learning disabilities at younger ages? Like if the school started testing them or parents started taking them to I don't know who does the testing for learning disabilities anyone.
Michelle: Right.
Jeselle: but if we started making those efforts
Michelle: Think the sooner the better. I think it should start when a child is in kindergarten and there's even a push to even do dyslexia screenings because we can tell. I I if you have a really good team, you can get an idea. Nobody has a crystal ball to say, okay, this one's gonna go to college, this one's going to go to trade school, this one's going to maybe just work. But we do have an idea when a child is young, where they're where some of the struggles are going to be with the disability. Not all of them, but and so I think that's so important. And I think the parents need to be really working in the classroom with their teacher. If they notice that their child is struggling, they need to call the teacher and say, I'm really noticing that my student, my my child's really having a hard time. And if a teacher notices that that the student is struggling in the classroom, they need to communicate with the parents about that. And I always say go and get the child tested. The worst thing that might come out is a the child may just be some may not we may not know what it is. That could be one or just maybe For some reason they are struggling. And I think that's the hardest part too, because there's some kids that just don't test for that with that or it's not identified with that. We we don't have a definitive answer. That that's the hard part. There's not a blood test.
Jeselle: Yeah.
Michelle: there's nothing that can give you that definitive answer. But we can screen and we can also, like the school psychologist can go and it's one of those things where they can make a diagnosis. But it's technically not it's it's for the school at that point, but as an adult, if you wanna have services, you have to go to a a psychiatrist and work through like Office for Vocational Rehabilitation as a as an adult. And they can connect you with a psychiatrist to to be able to evaluate you. But I I just think even at that young age though. If you truly have that, I I think that it's important that we do give that diagnosis early. My mom and dad thought too when I was in preschool, she'll catch up. and they suggested another year of school. I don't think it would have done any good, but I think even at that really young age too, just having that testing would would have you know, i is so important. But I was really lucky. And I just hope that everybody else has that opportunity if their child is struggling to be able to get those services and accommodations.
Jeselle: Wow. I I really like how you you explain that. I had a question prepared and it My questions keep walking out the door today, Michelle. Why do you want why
Michelle: It's okay.
Jeselle: do you keep doing that to me? man.
Michelle: Yeah.
Jeselle: well I was gonna say that the curriculum is the same across the board and it it
Michelle: Right.
Jeselle: doesn't cater to one side or the other. It's just the same across the board. And you know,
Michelle: No. Yep.
Jeselle: a lot of public schools sorry, itch in the eye, a lot of
Michelle: That's okay, I hear ya.
Jeselle: A lot of public schools, you know, from being an older sister and going through it myself,
Michelle: Yeah.
Jeselle: they have a tendency of teachers not paying attention. They don't see
Michelle: Yeah.
Jeselle: it. And sometimes there's parents who are not paying attention and there's no communication between the
Michelle: Mm-hmm.
Jeselle: two. And
Michelle: Right.
Jeselle: that and I think that's the biggest thing. Like, I My mom struggles with that right now. My brother, he is he has both AD both sides of ADHD. So he is everywhere. He's very high strong, very hyper,
Michelle: Yeah.
Jeselle: very intelligent. And so like last year, he that boy was failing everything. And we're like, what's going on, sir? And teachers
Michelle: Right.
Jeselle: are not reaching out, they're just saying behavior issues, behavior issues, behavior issues. instead of you know paying attention more and or going hey let's you know let's talk about maybe after class or you know come to me during lunch break like teachers there's a lot
Michelle: Mm-hmm.
Jeselle: of teachers who don't take the extra time anymore from our experiences.
Michelle: Right.
Jeselle: I had a couple teachers that paid zero attention to me. they just I was failing at like English. Like once again, English. I you put me in an English class and I'm going, okay, I can read
Michelle: Yeah.
Jeselle: the book. I can read. That's the problem. But have me write and I it's not credible.
Michelle: Right, and that's yeah, exactly. And that's I think that's another thing about we don't understand. We think reading is just about read reading the words and being a fluent reader. There's different things with reading that that goes into that. I some I struggled with reading comprehension. I've I could read really well. But sometimes just getting the the comprehension or the right information, that that was something that I really had to that that was hard for me to do. And when we think about writing too, some some people struggle with that. Somebody could be a good reader, but maybe they're they really struggle with writing. And I think that that's important that we'd we'd really meet the child where they're at. And that's I think if I had one wish for people with learning disabilities, whether it was a child in school or it was an adult that was in college or trying to find a job. I wish we had this customized approach for every individual person and not just this cookie cutter approach that says, okay, you have a learning disability. Well everyone that has a learning disability is going to get these services. Yep.
Jeselle: Yeah. Yeah, honestly. And I and sadly I really don't think we would ever get there with with how how
Michelle: I know.
Jeselle: our society is. I I hate to say it and be so but I just want to be so truthful about it because the way our society is, we're still very
Michelle: Mm-hmm.
Jeselle: we're we still don't flex around with it and even if we push for it, the people are still going to be, Well, is that even real?
Michelle: Right.
Jeselle: Which, you know, like you said, there's not we don't have diagnosis for all disabilities, but do you have like an idea of how many different learning disabilities there are of
Michelle: I know that there's We have dyslexia with reading. We have dysgraphia, which can be writing. I have that with my handwriting. you cannot read that. But I mean it can just maybe even getting ideas down on paper can be tough for some people. There's ones that involve ju just being how how somebody might move, visual perception, that's a big one. Everyone thinks, I have that and they think, why why don't you just wear glasses? And they don't understand that there's more like how our brain does. There's you know disabilities that that are out there that you know might just affect like coordination. There's ones that that that'll just affect executive functioning. that that's a a big one that well that we see in a lot of them. Sometimes it can just be how your brain processes language. And it's there's a lot of of how our brains work that can really be affected by having a learning disability. And one of the key things with having one is you'll have one area that's really strong and then you have that other area that you really struggle with. And that's the discrepancy theory. And for me I'll have the really strong area in English and reading, but If you put me in math or something with visual perception, I'm th there's a big gap between that.
Jeselle: What I'm just curious. I'm really curious about the visual perception. how exactly does that work, if you don't mind me asking?
Michelle: Sure, no problem. I have a hard time with my reaction time and I'll blink whenever I have a ball or something comes to my field of vision. And when I was younger, we just thought, okay, you're not gonna be the nat you're not gonna be an athlete. But when I was older, as as a teenager, driving was a big deal. And my parents thought, Well, let's wait a year just to see if the brain matures a little bit. And then About when I was turning 17, my parents gave me some little tasks to do before we even thought about the license. One of them was to go mow the field. And instead of making long, beautiful lines, I ended up making circles, which I now know where crop circles come from. And I almost ran into the family garage again.
Jeselle: I love it. No, I mean not a lot of people know where crop where crop circles come from and I I
Michelle: Yep.
Jeselle: took me a long time to know.
Michelle: Yep, there we go. I got that. I I I solved that mystery. And my parents had me get tested. we went into a rehabilitation hospital for an evaluation. And I passed, my my eyesight was twenty twenty. I knew what to do, if the car would break down, I understood the responsibilities of driving. And it was all going fine and good until we got the visual perception part. And they said, based upon this, we can't recommend that you get your license. And it was like a hundred pounds was lifted off of me. And I just thought, if I I mean, legally I could go out and get my license, then I could drive, but I just thought if I would hurt somebody, if my visual perception would go out or I hurt myself. I d I don't know how I would live with that. And I I could trip over air and that's just one of those things I c I'm not able to do.
Jeselle: He got me questioning wh if that's the reason why I can trip over myself standing. Cause
Michelle: Mm-hmm.
Jeselle: I used to just stand there like when I was a teenager.
Michelle: Yeah.
Jeselle: I would just stand there and we would get ready to cross the street and all of a sudden I just trip and my mom was like, Did you just trip over air? Yeah. Like, and maybe that's where people kind of are the clumsy, where we would get the clumsiness from.
Michelle: Right.
Jeselle: That would that makes more sense to me. it's we just have different variables of it where it's you know, one can be a little bit worse than the other where, you know, so it's not as bad.
Michelle: Right. And and that's one of the things I try to really work on, like whenever I do work out. I mean, it's one of those things, just where is my body at in space? It doesn't get rid of that, but it does help to learn, okay, this is where I'm at, and not to be able to fall as much or how we do fall. because that's something that everybody will do. I'm just more prone to doing it. And but yeah, you're you're right. I mean, I could just Trip over stuff like that.
Jeselle: I appreciate you being you and so open and so and and vulnerable about speaking about these things because this is a vulnerability. And you know,
Michelle: Mm-hmm.
Jeselle: and helping people be more aware of the aspect of learning disabilities and and also teaching that like we said, there can be different levels of it. You some people just may not have a strong level of a learning disability. I know that you said you write a blog about it and you do a where can people find that blog?
Michelle: You can find me in my blog at www dot michellesmission dot com.
Jeselle: It's so awesome. And your little kids book I w I need to know because I have a little and I would love to read that to her.
Michelle: Sure, you can find that on my blog as well, under my store. Yep.
Jeselle: All right. I just want to make sure we got that out there. Because sometimes we Yeah, we s we
Michelle: Thank you. No, I appreciate that.
Jeselle: sometimes miss miss getting people's information out there and I really like to make sure we get that out there. Is there anything that we're not picking up on on this conversation that you really want to get out there?
Michelle: Well I think we got everything.
Jeselle: Okay. any other information, any bl wow, socials. I said blog socials that and if you know people can follow you on. Do you do any like I can't get the question to piece together right.
Michelle: I'm on Facebook and Instagram if anybody wants to follow me there. Yeah, you can find me.
Jeselle: All right. Michelle, thank you. Absolutely thank you for reaching out for one. I know that you reached out, I think you reached out to another podcaster of ours and she sent you our way.
Michelle: Yes.
Jeselle: And I'm just glad that you're doing this work, doing this mission, and I am I I'm excited to be a part of this with you.
Michelle: Thank you.
Jeselle: And for all of our listeners out there for looking through the glass, we can follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok as well. and we do have our website, litg.com. And yeah, we have you can get our newsletter that we did not keep up on. And that we were horrible about it. and then we you can have our about page and you can see all of our other podcast episodes. If you do not feel like going to any other platform, thank y'all for listening in for looking through the glass.
