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Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, Hi, hello there, and welcome. This is let's talk about myths, baby, and I am that host of yours, the one who has opinions with a capital oh. Live. Technically my name also starts with an oh. But here we are with calling me live. I am so thrilled to be continuing on with Antigony. It really is such a fascinating play. No, I think personally like a huge part of what's making it so fascinating for me is when I consider how it has been treated in our current world. It just, I don't know, it's really interesting, and it's probably too early to dive too deep into what that means. So again we will get there. But man, does that part fascinate me. But we're really not that far or not far enough into the play for any of this, so I will not take up any more time with an introduction. Let's just remind you all where we were when we left off last week. The two princes or really kings of thebes Etocles and Polis. They were killed brother killed by brother in a war waged by Polyniks due to the actions of his brother. I personally don't think either one of them is more to blame than the other. It's all a tragic mess that could have been avoided. What couldn't be avoided is the tragedy that came beforehand. Their father is also their half brother because their father is Oedipus, who inadvertently fell in love with and married his own mother, Jocasta. It was not ideal, and in Sophocles's version, by this point, both their parents are dead. The only two remaining members of the thebe and Royal family are the two sisters Antigany and is Mani. Their uncle Creon has taken over Thebes after their brothers deaths, and he's decreed that because Polnick has waged the war against his homeland of Thebes, he is not allowed to be buried. Instead, his body is being intentionally left to rot and be eaten by animals. Meanwhile, Antigony broke Creon's laws and buried her brother or started to. She's trying to give him a proper chance in the underworld. She mourned him to another thing that wasn't allowed. Creon caught her and chose to also blame is Mini, though Antigany won't give her credit because a Mini refused to help when Antigony asked her in the first place. It's a whole mess of drama, of familial horror stories. But at this point Antigony and her sister seem like they're going to both be put to death for this. Oh, and we learned that Antigony was set to marry Creon's own son, her cousin, him On, and that Friends and Nerds is where we last left off in Sophocles's play Antigony. This is episode one. Everything is eclipsed by the shape of destiny. Sophocles is Antigony Part three. When the chorus finishes their song, once Antigony and his minie have been led off stage to await whatever fates Creon has in store for them, we meet Creon's son, him On. Hyman was set to marry Antigony, but now that his father is intending to well have Antigony put to death for daring to mourn and bury her own brother, Hymon's without a bride. The chorus introduces him, telling the audience that he's coming to the stage to speak to his father and quote does he come to mourn the doom of his betrothed bride. Antigony fiercely grieving the cheating of his marriage bed. Creon's clearly worried about his son's reaction, because his first words are not to ask how his son is feeling or even if he's angry, but to presume that his status as father outweighs whatever he has done. He says, essentially, you're not here to yell at me, are you. I'm your father no matter what, and him on, Yeah, he goes with it. He says that he trusts his father's judgment, that no marriage is worth more than his father's guidance, and yeah, I just threw up a little bit. Creon keeps speaking, and honestly, it gets weirder and weirder and grocer and grocer, just holding onto the fact that Creon is the obvious bad guy in this play, like that is the only thing getting me through this. Because as he goes on talking about how men want that type of behavior and their sons, sons who are willing to carry out retribution on those that harm their fathers, and why else would they even have sons to begin with. Then he moves on to his opinions on women. Yeah, women, quote now, son, never throw out your good sense just for the pleasure of a woman, knowing that it becomes a cold embrace an evil wife for a bed mate at home. And he goes on and on, and I have to quote more because I just have to. Now he's directly speaking about Antigony, the woman who is set to marry him On, and we're to presume that he had some kind of affection for and who literally just mourned her own dead brother about her. Creon tells his son, quote spit her out as an enemy. Let that girl go to Hades to marry someone. Creon then devolves into speaking of how he still intends to kill Antigony for what she's done. He even makes reference to Zeus quote let her sing about her, Zeus, God of kindred blood. He's pretty openly falling apart here somehow, both aware and unaware that he is going to anger the gods with this decision, that he's going to anger Zeus himself, and that maybe he already has This is not going to go well for Creon, but he just can't see it. He's completely blinded by the disobedience of Antigony, let alone her openly emasculating him once more. Creon speaks of the importance of the state and the person in charge, essentially saying that he should be obeyed in all things, no matter what they might be, that without that, the state would devolve into anarchy. And again, I really didn't intend for this to be quite as appropriate as it is. But now I'm just seeing everything happening in Iran through this lens, and I wish I'd made that clear in the first two episodes. Actually, I wish I had said something much earlier, but I'm saying it now. I have such immense respect and I mean, I'm just in awe of the protests in Iran, the people standing up to their tyrannical leadership, the horrors and tragedies that are being inflicted upon them by their leadership. It's it's so many things I've just I don't know how to put it into words. Um anyway, Uh, this this episode is is I think particularly important, though nowhere near as important as what's going on. What they're doing is is obviously so so much more powerful and important than antigny. But there is a connection there that I am seeing and was completely accidental with this Creon basically turns full blown tyrant. He can't see the forest for the trees. He's just he's gone. His speech to him On about the entire mass ends when he speaks about forces of anarchy quote, but when those forces succeed, it's obedience that saves many lives. Thus one must defend order and in no way be less than a woman, better felled by a man. If need be, then called weaker than a woman. And again Creons the bad guy. The message here is he is bad and Antigny is good. I think it's obvious, but I'm gonna drill it home with these words. Said him On speaks to his father. He's very measured, beginning with praise of his father in detailing just how much he respects Creon and his actions. But he explains he's also been looking out for his father and listening to the words of the people. How the broader people of thebes view Creon and Antigny and what's going on between them. In this case, he explains, the people of the city are sympathetic towards her and her actions. I know you don't want to hear it, Dad, Hyman basically says, but the city is on her side quote, but I can hear things under darkness. How the city weeps for this girl, of all women, most undeserving to perish, most evilly, for the most noble deeds. Sorry, all, I all, I can I think now as I read this script, is what's happening in Iran. If you don't know what I'm talking about, you should and you should look it up. I'm not going to be the one to speak enough on it, but ok, okay, he does. He speaks to Creon beautifully appealing to his father and explaining the situation without really making a judgment himself. There's a lot of talk about just how much he loves his father, how much he respects him, how much he has his own interests at heart. I'm doing this for you, He's explaining. I'm trying to help you by explaining how the city is viewing the situation, how they're viewing you As a result. He explains that any man who thinks that his decisions alone are perfect is missing something. Is a blank slate. It takes seeing things from the other points of view, taking in other people's opinions and thoughts on these matters. That is what makes a good leader and good decisions. He says, quote when a man in power keeps taught his ships rigging and yields not a bit. He overturns the ship and navigates upside down. Him On wants his father to listen to reason, to take in the views of others before it's too late. Creon kind of listens, not as much as we'd hope, but he's taking in Hyman's words at least a little bit. They turned to a back and forth, my favorite word, a stick amythia, where they debate the situation. Are you saying I should respect a rebel? Creon asks, and him On notes that he's not suggesting they respect anyone evil, but is not what she did evil? Creon notes, not in the eyes of the people of thebes. Him On tells him Creon is having trouble. He's holding onto his power so tightly that he just he can't see anything else. Am I not the one in power? Or he's asking? And him On says, quote, the public is not the same as one man, which is just us A great line. They discuss it doesn't a ruler own the state, perhaps if it was entirely deserted. Him On suggests they're talking power. How absolute power can't hold how people need a say in what happens around them, what happens in their homes and in their city. A ruler can't rule without the will of the people, can't rule while ignoring everything that the people want and need. Even if he feels he can, it can't last. Eventually, the people will stand up for themselves. Better to listen to them now than face their wrath when it's too late. Of course, what Creon hears is simply that his son is siding with Antagony, or as Creon says, quote he it seems allies with the woman. The use of the word woman here is fascinating him. On is siding with just the woman, not Antigony, but the woman. And when Creon accuses him on of this, he doesn't deny it or confirm it. What he says is that, sure he's siding with the woman if Creon is the woman, because it's his father he's concerned for, which I mean feels like the wrong thing to say, given Creon is already feeling emasculated by Antigny, but it's a good way of expressing the point of like, I'm worried for you, Dad. Antigny is right either way, Creon doesn't dwell on that line. They go on to discuss justice and whether or not what Creon is doing is in fact justice. Him On finally tells him bluntly that what he's doing goes against the gods, to which he's told he's foul and quote inferior to a woman. The two keeps speaking, and it's really a great back and forth, a great debate. I now like him On quite a bit. He's really standing up to Creon, and in a real important way. He's trying to convince his father with reason and rationale, and when that isn't working, he shifts to being more blunt. He tells Creon that if he kills Antigony, he will also destroy another. Essentially, him On is threatening his own life if Creon goes through with Antigony's execution, and meanwhile, Creon sees this only as a threat. They get angrier and angrier the more Creon refuses to listen to sense and reason, refuses to see that he is explicitly angering the gods with what he's doing, that it's going to haunt him in one way or another. Finally, Creon just calls him quote a woman's lave, I know I don't need to say it again, but really, this Creon is an enormous ass, and at this point he's just entirely in his own world, not listening to or even hearing what's being said to him. Him On tries once more to get him to listen to what he is actually trying to say, but Creon's only response is to tell him On to bring in take any out so that he can actually watch her die, which, yeah, good father, for sure, definitely the dad that you want him on though he refuses this because he's a fucking human being, and he tells his father that she won't be killed beside him and that quote, you will never set eyes on my face. Rave On live with whatever kin are still willing. I'm on leaves, and Creon speaks to the chorus. He clarifies when they ask that he's decided he won't actually kill his manie. After all, he agrees with them that she doesn't deserve it. She didn't actually disobey him, so small mercies, I guess Jesus. And then well, then Creon lays out the means by which he will kill Antigny. And if you thought that he was already off the rails, just totally in another world of messy horror. Just you wait. He tells the chorus that his plan is to take Antakeny away from people so that she's hidden that no one will witness this. Then he says he'll hide her alive in a cave. He'll leave her just enough food to avoid being cursed, so that thebes can avoid taking the blame for what he's doing. Which I mean, that is an awfully wild hope. You've got their creon. Pretty sure the gods will still be well aware of what you're doing. But again, he is not thinking rationally. He's not really thinking at all. He is just running on rage. He finishes announcing how he's going to have Antigny killed by saying quote and they're praying to Hades, the only god. She reveres, perhaps she won't happen to die, or at least she will learn that it is a waste of labor to revere Hades. The chorus sings of love and passion. Quote arrows invincible in battle, Passion, who ravishes wealth? You stay the night on the soft cheeks of a girl, They go on, It's beautiful, and I wish I could quote it all. They sing of how not one of the gods can escape love and passion, So how would humans be expected to No, they say, whoever is inflicted by these is mad. Their minds become warped, and they're willing to commit injustices, to do whatever they feel will bring them closer to those passions. And it's not that this is just afflicting antigony. This passion. Though the chorus isn't specific who they're talking about it all, we can see it in all the characters. They all have their passions, and they're all doing things they probably shouldn't in service of those passions. Now is the time for me to remind you that in Greek tragedy there are no stage directions, or rather, they didn't record the stage directions that they might have used, and thus we have no idea what the ancient directions were. It adds a level of fascination and frustration that I imagine modern actors and directors develop a real love hate relationship with, let alone the translate years. So whenever you're reading an ancient play and you see stage directions, just know that those have been invented by the translator, invented based on their knowledge of the play, along with so many other factors, but invented all the same. Often we have to determine who might have been on stage at any given time through things like the dialogue itself, whether there's any indication of who might be hearing it or who might not be. And then of course there's the three actor rule for most of Greek tragedy, and certainly in this time period when we have the surviving plays, they went by the so called three actor rule. I've said it before, but to remind you, this is the tradition that there were only ever three actors on stage at any given time, along with the chorus. That and really there were only ever three actors in a play, meaning when there are more characters, they're being played by the same actors as others, but with different costumes and masks. Because also they were masks throughout, it was easier to swap roles convincingly and just the visual It also allows us to theorize which actors might have played which roles, who might they have doubled for, And it allows us to better theorize which characters might have been on stage at any given time and to come up with then theoretical stage directions based on that it is the best. I remind you all of this because it seems up for debate whether or not Creon remains on stage with the chorus. Most of the translations I'm looking at suggests he's left the stage, leaving the chorus to remain there alone. But the main translation I'm using the Diane rayre yes a woman huh. Interestingly, she suggests that he might leave or he might just sit on the throne at the back of the stage, in which case he's presumably witnessing everything that's about to happen. Because once the chorus has sung of love and passion and how those emotions control the person experiencing them, how they overtake their decision making and convince them to do things they wouldn't normally do. Then and Tiginy returns to the stage and the chorus is emotional. The leader of the chorus speaks when he sees Antigony and is He's immediately explains that he's close to tears at the sight of her, that he can no longer hold back as he sees Antigony heading towards the cave where she will meet her fate a fate they're explicitly tying to marriage too, like she's going to both marry him On and die there simultaneously. Antigany speaks to the chorus, describing what she sees, how she's looking on thebes for the last time, looking at the sun for the last time, How this case is special in that Hades is guiding her to the shores of the river Akron, the river of the underworld, even while she's still alive. Quote no share of wedding hymns, no wedding song sung for me at my marriage. Instead, I will wed death. So there it is. It isn't him On she's going to marry while she dies, but death itself. The chorus tries to reassure her, reminding her why she's going to die on her terms for doing something she believed in. In reply, Antagany speaks of Niobe, the daughter of Tantalus, who died high on a mountain turned to stone which is now covered with ivy quote just like her, A god puts me to rest. But the chorus reminds Antigony that Niobe was born of a god, but that she is immortal and was always doomed to die, though it's nice to see godliness in oneself after death, and take any takes this as them mocking her, mocking her pain and her death even while she's still alive and heading to her doom. I'm sort of torn on antagony here. I know ultimately that she has a strong character, she has strong morals, and she's sticking with them, even if means her death. She's standing up to power that might not be the decision everyone would make, or even an objectively good decision, but she's doing it herself and with full knowledge of the consequences. Or rather she already has, but she really does. Also play the martyr, dramatizes her decision to the nth degree, like, yes, her fate is horrific, but she's already made clear that she's making this choice, that she sees it coming. But now that it's actually waiting for her, she wants everyone around her to pity her and treat her like she is doing what she's doing. Quote miserable and with no home among the living or the dead. I am not alive, nor have I died. The choruses reply to this line is so good that so you're getting another quote pressing on to the limits of daring child. You crashed hard against the high throne of justice. You are paying for trouble from your father, love that they still get in a jabuty typus, it always comes back to Itipus, doesn't it, to which Antigony herself starts speaking about not only her father and the painful history that's tied to him, but of his marriage to her mother too, and well to his own mother. She speaks about their incestuous relationship, how she was born straight into that misery, how now she's returning to them quote cursed and unwed. Then well, then she addresses Oedipus as her brother, which like he is in addition to being her father. She speaks of him as her brother, how he had an ill fated marriage, and how in his death he's now killing her. They go back and forth and like this for a little longer, the chorus reminding Antigny that she made this choice, that she chose to go against those in power to explicitly deny Creon's orders, knowing full well what would happen to her, and Antigny continues to speak about how it's affecting her. There's no talk of Polynique is now it's all about how she is being treated, how she will have no wedding, how there is going to be no one lamenting her, no family left, that no one will cry over her, none of her family will publicly grieve for her. She's kind of leaving his meaning in the dust. And then Creon returns and well, the first thing he says is that no one will ever stop crying, lamenting, speaking of their fate, provided it buys them time. Essentially, he wants antagon these death sentence sped up. That thinks she's trying to delay it by speaking of her fate and what's in store for her, So he asks that she'd be taken now quickly and quote, when you having closed her as I said in the vaulted tomb, abandoned her alone, deserted, whether she wishes to die or to live in tombed in such a shelter, because remember, an taking these death sentence is to be walled alive inside a cave with just enough food for Creon to believe he's allowed her to remain living if she cho chooses, and for no one to be sure when she actually dies. What a kindness he's paying her with this announcement by Creon that she's to be taken to her fate. Immediately, Antigony begins a speech. Antigny speaks of where she's going now, calling it both an eternal crypt and her bridal chamber. She says she's now going towards her family, since most of them are dead, though she explicitly refers to herself as the one most wronged in death. The quote worst off by far, to which I say, do you remember your own mother Antigony to suggest that she has it the worst, rather than a woman who married a man she loved, had four children in a loving marriage, only to learn that she'd actually married her son that she thought was long long dead. Like Antigony, girl, get some perspective, regardless, she continues. She makes some interesting claims about why she did what she did. She did it because Polinique is her brother couldn't be replaced since both their parents are dead. She says that in other cases, if some family member of hers could be replaced, then she wouldn't have risked everything to bury them. It's odd, and maybe I'm missing what makes it reasonable to say that or meaningful, but it certainly is odd. She says that if her husband had died, she could marry again. If a child of hers had died, she could have another, But she can never have another brother. Then she continues to lament her own position, her own fate, how she'll die never having been married and never having had children. Instead, she's been deserted by all her loved ones. And again I say, antigony, is Meani tried with few, She tried so hard and you turned her away. Then she turns to what laws she's broken, what divine laws? And there, well, there, she's right. She did not break a divine law, and surely the gods would side with her if and when they're given the chance. But it doesn't matter now. Creon is the one who made the laws, and he's the one who will enforce them. Before she leaves the stage, being led to her ultimate fate and taken, he says, quote, behold, leaders of Thebes, the only woman left in the royal line. See what I suffer from such men because I acted with reverence. I suppose here she's addressing is Mini along with the leaders of Thebes, but it seems like she could also be suggesting that she's the last woman of the line, and I don't know that she doesn't name her sister at all here just irks me. Is Mini just does not seem to matter at all to and take me, even when she's all that's left and had offered to be with her sister until the very end, and actually referring to another translation, there's no reference at all to a woman at all, just the end of the royal line, making it even less clear whether Antigony even has is meaning in mind at all, or if she's so worried about herself, just too worried to even think that she has a sister left, a sister who tried her best. She won't get another chance to think of her sister either, because that is the last line, and Tiggany will speak in this play, with Antigony having spoken her last line, with her now gone from the stage entirely, the chorus sings. They sing of dana who was also hidden away, like Antigony, but by her own father. Danna E, though, became the mother of Perseus through well you remember, but the chorus describes it as quote Zeus's shower of golden seed. You're welcome for that. Dana E came out all right, though antigony won't. That's destiny, they say. They sing now of others with tragic fates of confinement, a man named Dreus, who was trapped away by Dionysus for crimes against the god. They sing of others characters trapped away punished by the gods for their actions, though all of them seem to be much more punishable crimes, or at least things the gods would typically punish for, whereas antigon these crimes are nothing like these. Still, the point, it seems, is destiny and the way it will always come for you. There's a a lyric I used to have tattooed on me. It's fitting enough that I turned it into this episode's title. Everything is eclipsed by the shape of destiny. It's by bright eyes. Leave it to me to find a reason to quote the world's best indie emo bandon an episode, but a deeply emo young woman. Once the chorus is finished their song of destiny, a new character arrives on stage, and oh is it important that he's walking on? Just as the chorus has sung of destiny. None other than Tyresus joins the chorus now and creon too he's brought in by a young boy who's guiding him as Tyreseus is famously blind and always has a nice attendant with him. Tyreseus, if you don't remember, is a prophet of Thebes and a man who turns up in so so many stories of Thebes that he is either absolutely immortal or just so important and useful in storytelling that he goes above and beyond mere chronology. Tyresius is in Bad Guy when Cadmus is still alive and consulting, and then he appears in these Sophocles Is Theban plays many generations later, still there and ready to tell the Theban leaders when they're absolutely fucking things up. Yes, that is the rule. Tyreseus plays in Back Eye and Itipis Tyrannos, and now in Antigony. He's also the guy who transformed into a woman after he saw two snakes fucking and then had to tell zusan Harra who enjoyed sex more. But that's neither here nor there. After some polite greetings between Tyreseus and Creon reminders of how Creon has listened to Tyreseus before, how he respects the old man. The Seer gets right to the point. Quote, consider that now you walk again on the razor edge of fortune. Basically you're doing the absolute wrong thing. Creon whoops, surprise, surprise. Though Creon somehow doesn't have any idea what Tyreseus could possibly be referring to. What is it, he asks, adding that he's concerned about Tyresus's words. So Tyresus explains to Creon how he's come to find himself there, warning Creon against his actions, how he saw what was going on, and how he knows what needs to be done. He tells Creon that he was doing his usual seer style actions his augury mainly, and how the birds were frantic, unfamiliar, crying out, how they were in a wild and violent frenzy, tearing each other apart. Seeing this and worrying immediately, Tyreseus tried to learn more. To appease the gods. He burned a fire, trying to sacrifice to the gods, but it would barely light, let alone burn the offerings. As the fire is meant to the meat specific pieces for the gods, meant to burn and send the sacrificial smoke up to Olympus. They only sizzled and oozed. In essence, everything was going wrong. The gods were and are not happy with Thebes. Tyreseius goes on to explain that the reason for this, the reason that the gods are refusing to accept sacrificial offerings from him, from anyone in Thebes, actually is that there too, full from gorging on what's been left of poor Polikus. Quote, birds and dogs fill with meat from the ill fated fallen son of Oedipus, and so the gods no longer accept sacrificial prayers or burnt offerings from us. No birds shriek forth clear signs after gorging on the rich blood of a slain man. He is getting straight to the point, Creon, this is because you've refused burial to a dead man. And not only that, because frankly, that's enough to funk with the gods. But that man was a prince of Thebes. Regardless of what he did, he was a fucking prince of Thebes. Tyrasius isn't all harsh, though, he makes clear to Creon, Look, people make mistakes. That's humanity. It's very common, it's okay. But humans can also fix those mistakes and if they don't, even when they know that there's reason too, that's when those mistakes aren't quite so forgivable and Creon. While Creon doesn't take this well, he tells Tyrasus that people are attacking him from every direction for this decision, but he doesn't suggest it's a bad one. He even accuses Traseus of taking bribes, of just wanting to get money, and that's why he's coming to Creon with this, which I mean, who would be paying Tyreseus for this? Like? How would he be making money off of this? Regardless, Creon is just a fucking mess right now and he can't even remotely consider that he might be in the wrong. He even so far as to say that he won't bury polyniks body even if Zeus's own eagles want to eat from the corpse or bring the body all the way to Zeus himself. Not even Zeus's wrath is enough to convince Creon to bury Polynikis. And that is how you know this man is just too far gone. There is no coming back from this, oh, Nerds, Nerds, Nerds, things are not looking good for Creon or in Tigony. I guess this is a Greek tragedy after all, and not one written by eriputies. Well, obviously this is going to be a four episode series. I keep thinking I can still do plays in three episodes, but then I get too obsessed with all the details because they're just so good and interesting, and the lines are too good and interesting, and then I want to talk about all the historical context and the way these things are performed, and then I want to look at the social context, both ancient and modern. And anyway, obviously there's gonna be another episode of Antigny next week that and that's when I will finally dive into my thoughts on her as a character and what she has come to symbolize, because there's just so much there. What an interesting play, one that, in my opinion, is almost more interesting because of how it's understood now, how it's performed and viewed, and by whom, because from what I've seen in my realm of this world, there is an awful lot of men who like to pat themselves on the back for their respective women just because they love Antigny, and I just, yeah, there's a lot to unpack their a taste. Creon has about double the lines that antigony has in this play double anyway. Yeah, this is quite the play, and a specific type of person who fawns over it is the thing I'm most obsessed with. But we will get there next week. For now, the script is already almost six thousand words and counting, so we must end it. Thank you so much for listening. I am just so thrilled to get to cover these plays. I have learned from a few of you how much you love the play episodes specifically, and I just want to say that that means a lot to me. I really really love covering them, and they're the majority of the ancient sources that I have yet to cover on this podcast, so they're going to continue on. I realized they're long and quite different from the more traditional myths, so I do try to space them out. But the more we get through and the more you all like them, the more ancient sources we still have to work with that I haven't already covered. So just I don't know. If you love these play episodes, please feel free to tell me about it and or shout about it on social media. As I'm writing this, Twitter seems to be spiraling, and who knows if it will even exist in the same form by the time this episode comes out, or just a racist cesspool. But if it's still around, tell me they're okay. If not, I'm on Instagram and TikTok to you at Miss Baby. But Twitter is where I found my people, where I built a whole network of academics and met basically everyone who's ever been a guest on this show. And I don't quite know how I'm going to feel about it possibly being gone. I don't know what I will do for guests regardless. This is about Antigny. What a fascinating character. Fucking love Greek tragedy. Even plays that aren't by Euripides they have value too. Let's leave you, as always with the reading of your five star reviews. Huge thank you to everyone who leaves these reviews. They mean the world to me. I read everyone, and I love you all for leaving them. This one is from Canada, a user named darcyan thirteen. Fantastic, super intriguing and great storytelling even by a woman. Gasp. Seriously love it. Keep killing it you, rock star. Thank you. That was simple into the point, a little bit of sarcasm. Perfect review. Let's talk go Miss Baby. Has written and produced by me Live Albert Michaelis Smith is the Hermes to my Olympians and handled so many podcasts related things. God, she's just so so much. She's the absolute best. Stephanie fully works to transcribe the podcast for YouTube captions and accessibility. The podcast is hosted and monetized by a cast. Help me continue bringing you the world of Greek pthology in the Ancient Mediterranean. Becoming a patron will get bonus episodes and more. Visit patreon dot com slash myths Baby, or click the link in this episode's description. You're all the best. Thank you so much for being here and for listening. I am living. I love this shit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, Hi, hello there, and welcome. This is let's talk about myths, baby, and I am that host of yours, the one who has opinions with a capital oh. Live. Technically my name also starts with an oh. But here we are with calling me live. I am so thrilled to be continuing on with Antigony. It really is such a fascinating play. No, I think personally like a huge part of what's making it so fascinating for me is when I consider how it has been treated in our current world. It just, I don't know, it's really interesting, and it's probably too early to dive too deep into what that means. So again we will get there. But man, does that part fascinate me. But we're really not that far or not far enough into the play for any of this, so I will not take up any more time with an introduction. Let's just remind you all where we were when we left off last week. The two princes or really kings of thebes Etocles and Polis. They were killed brother killed by brother in a war waged by Polyniks due to the actions of his brother. I personally don't think either one of them is more to blame than the other. It's all a tragic mess that could have been avoided. What couldn't be avoided is the tragedy that came beforehand. Their father is also their half brother because their father is Oedipus, who inadvertently fell in love with and married his own mother, Jocasta. It was not ideal, and in Sophocles's version, by this point, both their parents are dead. The only two remaining members of the thebe and Royal family are the two sisters Antigany and is Mani. Their uncle Creon has taken over Thebes after their brothers deaths, and he's decreed that because Polnick has waged the war against his homeland of Thebes, he is not allowed to be buried. Instead, his body is being intentionally left to rot and be eaten by animals. Meanwhile, Antigony broke Creon's laws and buried her brother or started to. She's trying to give him a proper chance in the underworld. She mourned him to another thing that wasn't allowed. Creon caught her and chose to also blame is Mini, though Antigany won't give her credit because a Mini refused to help when Antigony asked her in the first place. It's a whole mess of drama, of familial horror stories. But at this point Antigony and her sister seem like they're going to both be put to death for this. Oh, and we learned that Antigony was set to marry Creon's own son, her cousin, him On, and that Friends and Nerds is where we last left off in Sophocles's play Antigony. This is episode one. Everything is eclipsed by the shape of destiny. Sophocles is Antigony Part three. When the chorus finishes their song, once Antigony and his minie have been led off stage to await whatever fates Creon has in store for them, we meet Creon's son, him On. Hyman was set to marry Antigony, but now that his father is intending to well have Antigony put to death for daring to mourn and bury her own brother, Hymon's without a bride. The chorus introduces him, telling the audience that he's coming to the stage to speak to his father and quote does he come to mourn the doom of his betrothed bride. Antigony fiercely grieving the cheating of his marriage bed. Creon's clearly worried about his son's reaction, because his first words are not to ask how his son is feeling or even if he's angry, but to presume that his status as father outweighs whatever he has done. He says, essentially, you're not here to yell at me, are you. I'm your father no matter what, and him on, Yeah, he goes with it. He says that he trusts his father's judgment, that no marriage is worth more than his father's guidance, and yeah, I just threw up a little bit. Creon keeps speaking, and honestly, it gets weirder and weirder and grocer and grocer, just holding onto the fact that Creon is the obvious bad guy in this play, like that is the only thing getting me through this. Because as he goes on talking about how men want that type of behavior and their sons, sons who are willing to carry out retribution on those that harm their fathers, and why else would they even have sons to begin with. Then he moves on to his opinions on women. Yeah, women, quote now, son, never throw out your good sense just for the pleasure of a woman, knowing that it becomes a cold embrace an evil wife for a bed mate at home. And he goes on and on, and I have to quote more because I just have to. Now he's directly speaking about Antigony, the woman who is set to marry him On, and we're to presume that he had some kind of affection for and who literally just mourned her own dead brother about her. Creon tells his son, quote spit her out as an enemy. Let that girl go to Hades to marry someone. Creon then devolves into speaking of how he still intends to kill Antigony for what she's done. He even makes reference to Zeus quote let her sing about her, Zeus, God of kindred blood. He's pretty openly falling apart here somehow, both aware and unaware that he is going to anger the gods with this decision, that he's going to anger Zeus himself, and that maybe he already has This is not going to go well for Creon, but he just can't see it. He's completely blinded by the disobedience of Antigony, let alone her openly emasculating him once more. Creon speaks of the importance of the state and the person in charge, essentially saying that he should be obeyed in all things, no matter what they might be, that without that, the state would devolve into anarchy. And again, I really didn't intend for this to be quite as appropriate as it is. But now I'm just seeing everything happening in Iran through this lens, and I wish I'd made that clear in the first two episodes. Actually, I wish I had said something much earlier, but I'm saying it now. I have such immense respect and I mean, I'm just in awe of the protests in Iran, the people standing up to their tyrannical leadership, the horrors and tragedies that are being inflicted upon them by their leadership. It's it's so many things I've just I don't know how to put it into words. Um anyway, Uh, this this episode is is I think particularly important, though nowhere near as important as what's going on. What they're doing is is obviously so so much more powerful and important than antigny. But there is a connection there that I am seeing and was completely accidental with this Creon basically turns full blown tyrant. He can't see the forest for the trees. He's just he's gone. His speech to him On about the entire mass ends when he speaks about forces of anarchy quote, but when those forces succeed, it's obedience that saves many lives. Thus one must defend order and in no way be less than a woman, better felled by a man. If need be, then called weaker than a woman. And again Creons the bad guy. The message here is he is bad and Antigny is good. I think it's obvious, but I'm gonna drill it home with these words. Said him On speaks to his father. He's very measured, beginning with praise of his father in detailing just how much he respects Creon and his actions. But he explains he's also been looking out for his father and listening to the words of the people. How the broader people of thebes view Creon and Antigny and what's going on between them. In this case, he explains, the people of the city are sympathetic towards her and her actions. I know you don't want to hear it, Dad, Hyman basically says, but the city is on her side quote, but I can hear things under darkness. How the city weeps for this girl, of all women, most undeserving to perish, most evilly, for the most noble deeds. Sorry, all, I all, I can I think now as I read this script, is what's happening in Iran. If you don't know what I'm talking about, you should and you should look it up. I'm not going to be the one to speak enough on it, but ok, okay, he does. He speaks to Creon beautifully appealing to his father and explaining the situation without really making a judgment himself. There's a lot of talk about just how much he loves his father, how much he respects him, how much he has his own interests at heart. I'm doing this for you, He's explaining. I'm trying to help you by explaining how the city is viewing the situation, how they're viewing you As a result. He explains that any man who thinks that his decisions alone are perfect is missing something. Is a blank slate. It takes seeing things from the other points of view, taking in other people's opinions and thoughts on these matters. That is what makes a good leader and good decisions. He says, quote when a man in power keeps taught his ships rigging and yields not a bit. He overturns the ship and navigates upside down. Him On wants his father to listen to reason, to take in the views of others before it's too late. Creon kind of listens, not as much as we'd hope, but he's taking in Hyman's words at least a little bit. They turned to a back and forth, my favorite word, a stick amythia, where they debate the situation. Are you saying I should respect a rebel? Creon asks, and him On notes that he's not suggesting they respect anyone evil, but is not what she did evil? Creon notes, not in the eyes of the people of thebes. Him On tells him Creon is having trouble. He's holding onto his power so tightly that he just he can't see anything else. Am I not the one in power? Or he's asking? And him On says, quote, the public is not the same as one man, which is just us A great line. They discuss it doesn't a ruler own the state, perhaps if it was entirely deserted. Him On suggests they're talking power. How absolute power can't hold how people need a say in what happens around them, what happens in their homes and in their city. A ruler can't rule without the will of the people, can't rule while ignoring everything that the people want and need. Even if he feels he can, it can't last. Eventually, the people will stand up for themselves. Better to listen to them now than face their wrath when it's too late. Of course, what Creon hears is simply that his son is siding with Antagony, or as Creon says, quote he it seems allies with the woman. The use of the word woman here is fascinating him. On is siding with just the woman, not Antigony, but the woman. And when Creon accuses him on of this, he doesn't deny it or confirm it. What he says is that, sure he's siding with the woman if Creon is the woman, because it's his father he's concerned for, which I mean feels like the wrong thing to say, given Creon is already feeling emasculated by Antigny, but it's a good way of expressing the point of like, I'm worried for you, Dad. Antigny is right either way, Creon doesn't dwell on that line. They go on to discuss justice and whether or not what Creon is doing is in fact justice. Him On finally tells him bluntly that what he's doing goes against the gods, to which he's told he's foul and quote inferior to a woman. The two keeps speaking, and it's really a great back and forth, a great debate. I now like him On quite a bit. He's really standing up to Creon, and in a real important way. He's trying to convince his father with reason and rationale, and when that isn't working, he shifts to being more blunt. He tells Creon that if he kills Antigony, he will also destroy another. Essentially, him On is threatening his own life if Creon goes through with Antigony's execution, and meanwhile, Creon sees this only as a threat. They get angrier and angrier the more Creon refuses to listen to sense and reason, refuses to see that he is explicitly angering the gods with what he's doing, that it's going to haunt him in one way or another. Finally, Creon just calls him quote a woman's lave, I know I don't need to say it again, but really, this Creon is an enormous ass, and at this point he's just entirely in his own world, not listening to or even hearing what's being said to him. Him On tries once more to get him to listen to what he is actually trying to say, but Creon's only response is to tell him On to bring in take any out so that he can actually watch her die, which, yeah, good father, for sure, definitely the dad that you want him on though he refuses this because he's a fucking human being, and he tells his father that she won't be killed beside him and that quote, you will never set eyes on my face. Rave On live with whatever kin are still willing. I'm on leaves, and Creon speaks to the chorus. He clarifies when they ask that he's decided he won't actually kill his manie. After all, he agrees with them that she doesn't deserve it. She didn't actually disobey him, so small mercies, I guess Jesus. And then well, then Creon lays out the means by which he will kill Antigny. And if you thought that he was already off the rails, just totally in another world of messy horror. Just you wait. He tells the chorus that his plan is to take Antakeny away from people so that she's hidden that no one will witness this. Then he says he'll hide her alive in a cave. He'll leave her just enough food to avoid being cursed, so that thebes can avoid taking the blame for what he's doing. Which I mean, that is an awfully wild hope. You've got their creon. Pretty sure the gods will still be well aware of what you're doing. But again, he is not thinking rationally. He's not really thinking at all. He is just running on rage. He finishes announcing how he's going to have Antigny killed by saying quote and they're praying to Hades, the only god. She reveres, perhaps she won't happen to die, or at least she will learn that it is a waste of labor to revere Hades. The chorus sings of love and passion. Quote arrows invincible in battle, Passion, who ravishes wealth? You stay the night on the soft cheeks of a girl, They go on, It's beautiful, and I wish I could quote it all. They sing of how not one of the gods can escape love and passion, So how would humans be expected to No, they say, whoever is inflicted by these is mad. Their minds become warped, and they're willing to commit injustices, to do whatever they feel will bring them closer to those passions. And it's not that this is just afflicting antigony. This passion. Though the chorus isn't specific who they're talking about it all, we can see it in all the characters. They all have their passions, and they're all doing things they probably shouldn't in service of those passions. Now is the time for me to remind you that in Greek tragedy there are no stage directions, or rather, they didn't record the stage directions that they might have used, and thus we have no idea what the ancient directions were. It adds a level of fascination and frustration that I imagine modern actors and directors develop a real love hate relationship with, let alone the translate years. So whenever you're reading an ancient play and you see stage directions, just know that those have been invented by the translator, invented based on their knowledge of the play, along with so many other factors, but invented all the same. Often we have to determine who might have been on stage at any given time through things like the dialogue itself, whether there's any indication of who might be hearing it or who might not be. And then of course there's the three actor rule for most of Greek tragedy, and certainly in this time period when we have the surviving plays, they went by the so called three actor rule. I've said it before, but to remind you, this is the tradition that there were only ever three actors on stage at any given time, along with the chorus. That and really there were only ever three actors in a play, meaning when there are more characters, they're being played by the same actors as others, but with different costumes and masks. Because also they were masks throughout, it was easier to swap roles convincingly and just the visual It also allows us to theorize which actors might have played which roles, who might they have doubled for, And it allows us to better theorize which characters might have been on stage at any given time and to come up with then theoretical stage directions based on that it is the best. I remind you all of this because it seems up for debate whether or not Creon remains on stage with the chorus. Most of the translations I'm looking at suggests he's left the stage, leaving the chorus to remain there alone. But the main translation I'm using the Diane rayre yes a woman huh. Interestingly, she suggests that he might leave or he might just sit on the throne at the back of the stage, in which case he's presumably witnessing everything that's about to happen. Because once the chorus has sung of love and passion and how those emotions control the person experiencing them, how they overtake their decision making and convince them to do things they wouldn't normally do. Then and Tiginy returns to the stage and the chorus is emotional. The leader of the chorus speaks when he sees Antigony and is He's immediately explains that he's close to tears at the sight of her, that he can no longer hold back as he sees Antigony heading towards the cave where she will meet her fate a fate they're explicitly tying to marriage too, like she's going to both marry him On and die there simultaneously. Antigany speaks to the chorus, describing what she sees, how she's looking on thebes for the last time, looking at the sun for the last time, How this case is special in that Hades is guiding her to the shores of the river Akron, the river of the underworld, even while she's still alive. Quote no share of wedding hymns, no wedding song sung for me at my marriage. Instead, I will wed death. So there it is. It isn't him On she's going to marry while she dies, but death itself. The chorus tries to reassure her, reminding her why she's going to die on her terms for doing something she believed in. In reply, Antagany speaks of Niobe, the daughter of Tantalus, who died high on a mountain turned to stone which is now covered with ivy quote just like her, A god puts me to rest. But the chorus reminds Antigony that Niobe was born of a god, but that she is immortal and was always doomed to die, though it's nice to see godliness in oneself after death, and take any takes this as them mocking her, mocking her pain and her death even while she's still alive and heading to her doom. I'm sort of torn on antagony here. I know ultimately that she has a strong character, she has strong morals, and she's sticking with them, even if means her death. She's standing up to power that might not be the decision everyone would make, or even an objectively good decision, but she's doing it herself and with full knowledge of the consequences. Or rather she already has, but she really does. Also play the martyr, dramatizes her decision to the nth degree, like, yes, her fate is horrific, but she's already made clear that she's making this choice, that she sees it coming. But now that it's actually waiting for her, she wants everyone around her to pity her and treat her like she is doing what she's doing. Quote miserable and with no home among the living or the dead. I am not alive, nor have I died. The choruses reply to this line is so good that so you're getting another quote pressing on to the limits of daring child. You crashed hard against the high throne of justice. You are paying for trouble from your father, love that they still get in a jabuty typus, it always comes back to Itipus, doesn't it, to which Antigony herself starts speaking about not only her father and the painful history that's tied to him, but of his marriage to her mother too, and well to his own mother. She speaks about their incestuous relationship, how she was born straight into that misery, how now she's returning to them quote cursed and unwed. Then well, then she addresses Oedipus as her brother, which like he is in addition to being her father. She speaks of him as her brother, how he had an ill fated marriage, and how in his death he's now killing her. They go back and forth and like this for a little longer, the chorus reminding Antigny that she made this choice, that she chose to go against those in power to explicitly deny Creon's orders, knowing full well what would happen to her, and Antigny continues to speak about how it's affecting her. There's no talk of Polynique is now it's all about how she is being treated, how she will have no wedding, how there is going to be no one lamenting her, no family left, that no one will cry over her, none of her family will publicly grieve for her. She's kind of leaving his meaning in the dust. And then Creon returns and well, the first thing he says is that no one will ever stop crying, lamenting, speaking of their fate, provided it buys them time. Essentially, he wants antagon these death sentence sped up. That thinks she's trying to delay it by speaking of her fate and what's in store for her, So he asks that she'd be taken now quickly and quote, when you having closed her as I said in the vaulted tomb, abandoned her alone, deserted, whether she wishes to die or to live in tombed in such a shelter, because remember, an taking these death sentence is to be walled alive inside a cave with just enough food for Creon to believe he's allowed her to remain living if she cho chooses, and for no one to be sure when she actually dies. What a kindness he's paying her with this announcement by Creon that she's to be taken to her fate. Immediately, Antigony begins a speech. Antigny speaks of where she's going now, calling it both an eternal crypt and her bridal chamber. She says she's now going towards her family, since most of them are dead, though she explicitly refers to herself as the one most wronged in death. The quote worst off by far, to which I say, do you remember your own mother Antigony to suggest that she has it the worst, rather than a woman who married a man she loved, had four children in a loving marriage, only to learn that she'd actually married her son that she thought was long long dead. Like Antigony, girl, get some perspective, regardless, she continues. She makes some interesting claims about why she did what she did. She did it because Polinique is her brother couldn't be replaced since both their parents are dead. She says that in other cases, if some family member of hers could be replaced, then she wouldn't have risked everything to bury them. It's odd, and maybe I'm missing what makes it reasonable to say that or meaningful, but it certainly is odd. She says that if her husband had died, she could marry again. If a child of hers had died, she could have another, But she can never have another brother. Then she continues to lament her own position, her own fate, how she'll die never having been married and never having had children. Instead, she's been deserted by all her loved ones. And again I say, antigony, is Meani tried with few, She tried so hard and you turned her away. Then she turns to what laws she's broken, what divine laws? And there, well, there, she's right. She did not break a divine law, and surely the gods would side with her if and when they're given the chance. But it doesn't matter now. Creon is the one who made the laws, and he's the one who will enforce them. Before she leaves the stage, being led to her ultimate fate and taken, he says, quote, behold, leaders of Thebes, the only woman left in the royal line. See what I suffer from such men because I acted with reverence. I suppose here she's addressing is Mini along with the leaders of Thebes, but it seems like she could also be suggesting that she's the last woman of the line, and I don't know that she doesn't name her sister at all here just irks me. Is Mini just does not seem to matter at all to and take me, even when she's all that's left and had offered to be with her sister until the very end, and actually referring to another translation, there's no reference at all to a woman at all, just the end of the royal line, making it even less clear whether Antigony even has is meaning in mind at all, or if she's so worried about herself, just too worried to even think that she has a sister left, a sister who tried her best. She won't get another chance to think of her sister either, because that is the last line, and Tiggany will speak in this play, with Antigony having spoken her last line, with her now gone from the stage entirely, the chorus sings. They sing of dana who was also hidden away, like Antigony, but by her own father. Danna E, though, became the mother of Perseus through well you remember, but the chorus describes it as quote Zeus's shower of golden seed. You're welcome for that. Dana E came out all right, though antigony won't. That's destiny, they say. They sing now of others with tragic fates of confinement, a man named Dreus, who was trapped away by Dionysus for crimes against the god. They sing of others characters trapped away punished by the gods for their actions, though all of them seem to be much more punishable crimes, or at least things the gods would typically punish for, whereas antigon these crimes are nothing like these. Still, the point, it seems, is destiny and the way it will always come for you. There's a a lyric I used to have tattooed on me. It's fitting enough that I turned it into this episode's title. Everything is eclipsed by the shape of destiny. It's by bright eyes. Leave it to me to find a reason to quote the world's best indie emo bandon an episode, but a deeply emo young woman. Once the chorus is finished their song of destiny, a new character arrives on stage, and oh is it important that he's walking on? Just as the chorus has sung of destiny. None other than Tyresus joins the chorus now and creon too he's brought in by a young boy who's guiding him as Tyreseus is famously blind and always has a nice attendant with him. Tyreseus, if you don't remember, is a prophet of Thebes and a man who turns up in so so many stories of Thebes that he is either absolutely immortal or just so important and useful in storytelling that he goes above and beyond mere chronology. Tyresius is in Bad Guy when Cadmus is still alive and consulting, and then he appears in these Sophocles Is Theban plays many generations later, still there and ready to tell the Theban leaders when they're absolutely fucking things up. Yes, that is the rule. Tyreseus plays in Back Eye and Itipis Tyrannos, and now in Antigony. He's also the guy who transformed into a woman after he saw two snakes fucking and then had to tell zusan Harra who enjoyed sex more. But that's neither here nor there. After some polite greetings between Tyreseus and Creon reminders of how Creon has listened to Tyreseus before, how he respects the old man. The Seer gets right to the point. Quote, consider that now you walk again on the razor edge of fortune. Basically you're doing the absolute wrong thing. Creon whoops, surprise, surprise. Though Creon somehow doesn't have any idea what Tyreseus could possibly be referring to. What is it, he asks, adding that he's concerned about Tyresus's words. So Tyresus explains to Creon how he's come to find himself there, warning Creon against his actions, how he saw what was going on, and how he knows what needs to be done. He tells Creon that he was doing his usual seer style actions his augury mainly, and how the birds were frantic, unfamiliar, crying out, how they were in a wild and violent frenzy, tearing each other apart. Seeing this and worrying immediately, Tyreseus tried to learn more. To appease the gods. He burned a fire, trying to sacrifice to the gods, but it would barely light, let alone burn the offerings. As the fire is meant to the meat specific pieces for the gods, meant to burn and send the sacrificial smoke up to Olympus. They only sizzled and oozed. In essence, everything was going wrong. The gods were and are not happy with Thebes. Tyreseius goes on to explain that the reason for this, the reason that the gods are refusing to accept sacrificial offerings from him, from anyone in Thebes, actually is that there too, full from gorging on what's been left of poor Polikus. Quote, birds and dogs fill with meat from the ill fated fallen son of Oedipus, and so the gods no longer accept sacrificial prayers or burnt offerings from us. No birds shriek forth clear signs after gorging on the rich blood of a slain man. He is getting straight to the point, Creon, this is because you've refused burial to a dead man. And not only that, because frankly, that's enough to funk with the gods. But that man was a prince of Thebes. Regardless of what he did, he was a fucking prince of Thebes. Tyrasius isn't all harsh, though, he makes clear to Creon, Look, people make mistakes. That's humanity. It's very common, it's okay. But humans can also fix those mistakes and if they don't, even when they know that there's reason too, that's when those mistakes aren't quite so forgivable and Creon. While Creon doesn't take this well, he tells Tyrasus that people are attacking him from every direction for this decision, but he doesn't suggest it's a bad one. He even accuses Traseus of taking bribes, of just wanting to get money, and that's why he's coming to Creon with this, which I mean, who would be paying Tyreseus for this? Like? How would he be making money off of this? Regardless, Creon is just a fucking mess right now and he can't even remotely consider that he might be in the wrong. He even so far as to say that he won't bury polyniks body even if Zeus's own eagles want to eat from the corpse or bring the body all the way to Zeus himself. Not even Zeus's wrath is enough to convince Creon to bury Polynikis. And that is how you know this man is just too far gone. There is no coming back from this, oh, Nerds, Nerds, Nerds, things are not looking good for Creon or in Tigony. I guess this is a Greek tragedy after all, and not one written by eriputies. Well, obviously this is going to be a four episode series. I keep thinking I can still do plays in three episodes, but then I get too obsessed with all the details because they're just so good and interesting, and the lines are too good and interesting, and then I want to talk about all the historical context and the way these things are performed, and then I want to look at the social context, both ancient and modern. And anyway, obviously there's gonna be another episode of Antigny next week that and that's when I will finally dive into my thoughts on her as a character and what she has come to symbolize, because there's just so much there. What an interesting play, one that, in my opinion, is almost more interesting because of how it's understood now, how it's performed and viewed, and by whom, because from what I've seen in my realm of this world, there is an awful lot of men who like to pat themselves on the back for their respective women just because they love Antigny, and I just, yeah, there's a lot to unpack their a taste. Creon has about double the lines that antigony has in this play double anyway. Yeah, this is quite the play, and a specific type of person who fawns over it is the thing I'm most obsessed with. But we will get there next week. For now, the script is already almost six thousand words and counting, so we must end it. Thank you so much for listening. I am just so thrilled to get to cover these plays. I have learned from a few of you how much you love the play episodes specifically, and I just want to say that that means a lot to me. I really really love covering them, and they're the majority of the ancient sources that I have yet to cover on this podcast, so they're going to continue on. I realized they're long and quite different from the more traditional myths, so I do try to space them out. But the more we get through and the more you all like them, the more ancient sources we still have to work with that I haven't already covered. So just I don't know. If you love these play episodes, please feel free to tell me about it and or shout about it on social media. As I'm writing this, Twitter seems to be spiraling, and who knows if it will even exist in the same form by the time this episode comes out, or just a racist cesspool. But if it's still around, tell me they're okay. If not, I'm on Instagram and TikTok to you at Miss Baby. But Twitter is where I found my people, where I built a whole network of academics and met basically everyone who's ever been a guest on this show. And I don't quite know how I'm going to feel about it possibly being gone. I don't know what I will do for guests regardless. This is about Antigny. What a fascinating character. Fucking love Greek tragedy. Even plays that aren't by Euripides they have value too. Let's leave you, as always with the reading of your five star reviews. Huge thank you to everyone who leaves these reviews. They mean the world to me. I read everyone, and I love you all for leaving them. This one is from Canada, a user named darcyan thirteen. Fantastic, super intriguing and great storytelling even by a woman. Gasp. Seriously love it. Keep killing it you, rock star. Thank you. That was simple into the point, a little bit of sarcasm. Perfect review. Let's talk go Miss Baby. Has written and produced by me Live Albert Michaelis Smith is the Hermes to my Olympians and handled so many podcasts related things. God, she's just so so much. She's the absolute best. Stephanie fully works to transcribe the podcast for YouTube captions and accessibility. The podcast is hosted and monetized by a cast. Help me continue bringing you the world of Greek pthology in the Ancient Mediterranean. Becoming a patron will get bonus episodes and more. Visit patreon dot com slash myths Baby, or click the link in this episode's description. You're all the best. Thank you so much for being here and for listening. I am living. I love this shit.
