speaker-0: My journey with post really began when I realized I didn't actually like editing. Most of my experience has actually been with outsourcing the edit where I found success there has been in being able to build a relationship with the editor. Sometimes they'll send me some edits that they've done and sometimes not. I mean, it's kind of weird to say like I didn't watch somebody edit. I don't need you to show me all the technical tools you have and the plugins. actually don't care. At the end of the day, I just need this piece to feel the way I need it to feel. I tend to come relationship first and then trust whatever process they have to get there, they're gonna be able to get there. While we are creative professionals, the work that we are in is collaborative and it has to be. There's projects I've done where I'm massively proud of it because I see where we had four or five people that touched it and participated in it and created this thing. think that's what makes the work even more enjoyable when at the end of the day you're like, we did this.
speaker-1: you Welcome to Let's Fix Post, a show about making post-production smoother, smarter, and more collaborative for creative teams and editors alike. Make sure to hit subscribe so you don't miss out on future episodes. Today I'm joined by Andrew Cardy, the Senior Vice President of Video at Client Focused Media, a strategy-driven marketing agency. Andrew has a really interesting background that spans 20 years, from live theater to film to running his own production company, and now... at a large agency where he leads a team that specializes in creative video. He has a really unique and wide ranging perspective on post-production, having edited himself and managed both in-house and freelance editors. Today in our conversation, we cover the exact moment that Andrew realized he needed to outsource his editing and how that decision unlocked a new level of profitability for his company. We also talk about the different paths that are available to filmmakers for their post-production needs. from editing themselves to working with freelancers or a post-house. We also talk about the power of collaboration and why trusting your partners is a necessary step to professional growth. And lastly, Andrew shares his advice on when it's time to let go of the editing reins and to trust someone else to do it better. I really enjoyed our conversation and I hope that you do too. Let's get into it. So I'm here with Andrew Cardy and we're going to be chatting through your experiences of working with editors in different capacities, whether that's internally with an in-house team, freelancers, B2B post situation or editing yourself. But before we get into all that, just curious, know, introduce yourself, tell us what you've been up to and the company that you're at.
speaker-0: Yeah, well, thanks again so much, David, for having me on the show. It's a real pleasure to have the chance to talk with you about this. I don't always think of myself as somebody who's experienced a lot, but as we've been pre-talking, I'm like, ⁓ yeah, I did that, did that, that, that. I've been a creative professional for 20 years now, ⁓ started in live theater, moved into film. And ⁓ then I had a company with my wife for about 10 years, and then we were acquired by a larger agency. And so worked with a lot of different contexts and a lot of different places, ⁓ local startups, nonprofits to national brands, some international companies too. So ⁓ lots of fun ⁓ and ⁓ can't wait to see what the next years hold too. So right now I'm at an agency called Client Focused Media. We're based in Jacksonville, Florida. I've got a super fancy title, ⁓ Senior Vice President of Video. But what that really means is ⁓ I get to build and develop our video department team. We actually have a couple different video offerings in the company. So we do digital talk shows and ⁓ virtual interviews. We also have a social media department. And my department is really focused on
speaker-1: And what is your role there?
speaker-0: the what we call creative video. What I think traditionally most people think of when they're like, I'm a, I have a video production company. That's really where I've paid my dues and earned my stripes and where I still am, still a Matt. So we've got a nice, a nice team here and a good, a good group of vendors and collaborators that we work with for our clients. And most of our clients are based here in Jacksonville with, with roots throughout the U S.
speaker-1: Yeah, there was a reason I reached out to you because you've had I picked up that you had quite a range of experiences, not only in production, but, you know, more specifically in post production. so, yeah, let's talk through a little bit about that.
speaker-0: This sounds great, let's get to it!
speaker-1: I was very interested to chat with you because you had, from my impression, quite a range of experiences with different posts, whether you've done that yourself, you have an in-house team member, and every time I talk to you, you're mentioning other editors that you're aware of or different solutions or different companies, and you've edited yourself too, right? You were just mentioning working on your reel. Can you give us the high-level perspective of what you've experienced through posts?
speaker-0: I think for me, my journey with post really began when I realized I didn't actually like editing. I was a couple of years into into my own company. I would just thrive in with the pre-production, with the pitching, the selling, the developing the ideas, shooting the ideas. And then I get to the post-production phase and it'd be like the brakes screeching, like running through walls like it was like a cool, cool aid running through walls. It was like a the project was super profitable and then I get to post production and I'd be like, I might be working for like 25 cents an hour. And so I had a friend of mine that was like, you know, you really got to do what you're good at. Like there's other people that can help you with these with the post production and that's actually what they love to do and are superbly talented at it. So I think I first started out just getting out online a couple of communities that I'm part of and saying, I've gotten to edit because somebody helped me with this and and a few people raised their hands and ⁓ got on the phone and figured out they weren't quite as expensive as I thought they were going to be. And the fact that it wasn't on my plate made it very much worth the cost to me. And then when they turned it around and it was like it had been my vision, but taken even further, ⁓ I was like, this is this is kind of a no brainer. Um, and so that probably started a number of the relationships I had. So I started working with a couple of different editors and then I'd have projects that would come up and I'd say, Oh, Hey, is somebody else available that I might be able to use for this? Certainly worked with people that were like, shoot it, edit it, do it all themselves. But I think for me, um, where I really found a real good balance, think was in being able to identify the project and able to identify the type of edit I needed. And if I was comfortable with that, if I had somebody in a house that could do that great. And if not. I'd probably be looking for somebody that had some nuances to that.
speaker-1: Were most of the editors he worked with like on a freelance basis or like? Yeah. Speak a little bit maybe about how that experience has been different than managing an in-house editor.
speaker-0: Most of my experience has actually been with outsourcing the edit. I feel like for the most part where I've found success there has been in being able to build a relationship with the editor. I'll look at the stuff they're shooting and sometimes they'll send me some edits that they've done and sometimes not. I mean it's kind of weird to say like I didn't watch somebody edit it, I didn't see it. But there's certain inability that when you're on a phone call with somebody and you hear them talk about editing or talk about... I'm like, you get it. I don't need you to show me all the technical tools you have and the plugins and the, and the extensions that you use. Like I don't, I actually don't care at the end of the day. I just need this piece to feel the way I needed to feel. And hopefully, you know, be able to open up the project file and not be like crazy lost if I need to like tweak a name or, you know, tighten the shot for a second. So that really was helpful for me. And I've also, I forgot to say too, I also did some of that. Like I've used some of the programs that were outsourced editors as well, where they pay a monthly fee and you submit in the projects for them. And that was really good for me when I first was starting to edit because that got most everything that got to probably like 75, 80 % of things done. And it was pretty detailed, organized. It helped me kind of build what my file structure looks like because. I started seeing how they were doing it and I liked it and it flowed fine for me. But yeah, when I've been working with outsource editors or even the, you know, whether it's company, whether it's an individual, I tend to come relationship first and then trust whatever process they have to get there, they're gonna be able to get there. Now conversely, when I've had in-house editors, most of the time it's I'm teaching them. And so they've been pretty green or just learning early in their careers. And so I want to try and provide that structure for them to be able to learn, to develop their own pacing, their own styling, but almost always because I'm the one teaching them, they're kind of following in after, after me and my habits, good or bad.
speaker-1: Yeah, I love that you mentioned like the relationship first. I feel like that's always been like very critical on the other side of this, relationship, right? As an editor, like being able to talk to who, you know, is driving the project, who the stakeholders are, like what the vision is, the person who has all of that information. I don't understand. And maybe you can share some of this experience too, but I've always looked at some of the other businesses where it does feel more transactional, like there's more of a, like a portal. that you buy credits and then that counts towards a certain amount or whatever, right? How did the relationship element factor into like that experience? Like was that there as part of the like onboarding or was it pre-transactional?
speaker-0: No, so the one that I used, they were a startup at the time that I was working with them. And so I think what helped me with them is that I was talking directly with the founder, the owner of the company that started it. That is where the gap of the types of projects I was sending to them or the quality that I was expecting back wasn't quite there because they didn't have a relationship with the editor. didn't have a relationship with the project manager. ⁓ filling out a portal, sending it, and based on my pitch, they'd either get it or not. Whereas with when I've been able to work one-on-one with a freelancer or a ⁓ team of freelancers or a company like that, or a small team like that, it really does make a big difference because I'm casting the vision and inviting them into the vision. And I'll have some parameters, like I need it to be this space or these are the keywords I need. But I really am trusting them to bring their best to that place the way that I have brought my best the first part of it.
speaker-1: So in those opportunities where you did have a moment to kind of do the pre post, right, where you get a chance to talk to them and whatnot and share some insight, how much did you have to take the onus of preparing all those things and being like, I got to make sure and, you know, light them at all this versus like, how much did they show up to the table and say, like, here are all the questions, it feels exhaustive. And then you leave going like, ⁓ they asked more than I would have even thought. How has your experience fallen on those different ends of the spectrum?
speaker-0: I've kind of been on both sides of the spectrum and I appreciate ⁓ the ability and when I'm doing pre-production for a shoot to be able to ask questions and have as many of the variables ⁓ for a set as I can. So when I walk onto a set, when I walk in with talent or with a subject, there's a lot that I don't know, a lot that will happen, but the things that I do know, I want to know what those kind of guardrails are. And so I think when I'm working with an editor and they're asking those questions, I really appreciate that because it's their way of setting what those guardrails are for themselves. And there's times for me where somebody will have a very exhaustive list and sometimes I don't always answer all the questions because I haven't thought that deeply about the color palette. I'm like, this is what I shot. I don't know what color palette may exist or may not exist, but this is what we shot and the tone and the vibe that we shot it in. And God bless you. ⁓ And there's other times where I can understand the questions that they're asking are really helping them have a real clear idea of, you know, the pace, the story that matters to me, the quality of the cuts. I appreciate when someone comes with those questions because I like the ability to come with the questions in my processes too.
speaker-1: If you're the next to get the baton, you're asking the person who was running the race before you, let's see how far I can take this analogy. Where are the and valleys? What are the challenges so that by the time you're the one running it, you can navigate those more smoothly?
speaker-0: Yeah, and the same thing with the handoff. They need to know how fast you've been running and you know, like, hey, you've already done your lap. Like they gotta go on theirs now. So when I'm talking with someone, like, hey, you know, this client like was looking off screen all the time, you know, we're gonna rely on the B roll a lot more on this take. Or if I'm in a moment and I hear something, I'm like, this is like the key that unlocks this. And so here's the phrase and just. However, you find that phrase or display that phrase or run with that phrase like this is that's the meat of of what they said it was a surprise to me because I can provide them all the pre-production I can provide them all the you know when we're on a set and we're detailing how it goes and we're logging that footage in but For them to take that puzzle and put it together with the you know the picture that I had in my mind when we clicked record That's kind of the magic of collaboration to right
speaker-1: The notes that you took from how the shoot actually went versus how you were anticipating it going are huge for an editor. Having been in that seat, I always appreciate notes from the day of where it's like, here's how we wanted it to go, but here's how it actually went. So here's some things to keep an eye out for. I already know there's going to be a trouble spot, so start thinking creatively of what you do to overcome that. But rewinding even further, so have you ever brought post production in or like a vantage point of an editor before you've even shot or maybe even during the pitching phase to a client when you're like figuring out the concept.
speaker-0: You know, that's a really great question. I don't think I have. I'll be thinking post-production myself as the producer, director, and I'm trying to think if there's times where I have. We've done some online courses. We did have one client where we did one project where I had brought an editor in at the end. and then we worked so well the client really enjoyed the work we did together and so the client then was like hey we want to do another one and that's when the actual the editor worked with him beforehand to create some of the graphics that then our course that we were then shooting was going to come into but the editor and i didn't necessarily have an interplay of like all right here's the graphics and this is how you could shoot it now it was more of like a He's got that done now, so I can actually get to market a lot faster. I don't think I've actually had a time where I've, other than like an event coverage, but that's when we're like, everybody's wearing the shooter editor hat and there's a small crew and you're like, I'm shooting and editing this within 48 hours. And so when this guy's shooting, I'm editing and taking his footage and logging it and trying to organize it in a way that when I'm shooting and he's editing, he knows where things are. ⁓
speaker-1: Let's fast forward real quick to during a project with an editor. Have you found any efficient ways or mindsets that you like to keep in mind when going through that revision process or that back and forth after you've seen a first draft?
speaker-0: Yes, because I've done it enough. It probably is a process, but I don't have it. It's not like a written out SOP. It's not something that's really assigned agreement on, but generally speaking, where I find the misses are when I've worked with outsourced outsourced editors or in-house editors, it generally comes around either either a pacing where I'd like it to be a varied pace or this part feels a little too fast and just slow it down or it's in you know, some of the messaging, like could we, could this part was actually really important for the client. Now know when you're editing and you're like, this is a 32nd phrase to get to the payoff. Sometimes as an editor, you're taking that and go, well, I've got all these other things I want to try and fit in. I'm going to, I'm going to cut this thing. And so most of time for me, when I'm working with an editor, tends to be that when I'm saying, all right, Hey, I know this is a long sound bite, but we need it. Like that's, that's the crux of what the client said. So it tends to be in the priority of messaging or in the pace of and feel. ⁓ And so most of those conversations can be pretty easy, I find, because ⁓ ideally you've already kind of set this is the goal of the story. ⁓ Whether it's because we, I tend to over communicate at the front end or I'm too trusting of the editor. I'm not sure. I haven't really had many times. where I've gotten an edit back from somebody and I say, ah, this is like just way, way off. Like try to get training young guys. Sometimes you get there, but it's even then I think it's in the communication ahead of time that sets you up for success. And as a producer, I want to be willing to let that editor be an awesome editor and they're going to, they're going to make cuts. They're going to make transitions. They're going to make pacing choices that I wouldn't But also that's the role I need them to be. I don't want to, I don't like it when I'm in a project and somebody else is like critiquing every single second or frame of it. Cause I'm like, I did the thing yourself. you, know, like clearly you know how to do this. Cause this one frame is bothering you, you know? ⁓ and so as a, as a producer, I try not to be that for the people that are working for me or working with me on it, you know?
speaker-1: I've been in a weird seat, I'd say. Maybe, I think you've probably been similar, right? Where it's like, I've been both the one getting revisions and I've also been the one giving them. And so having been the one that gets them, I'm like, there's definitely a certain way I respond better, personally, as just like a human, right? When someone's communicating something. So I'm like, I'm going to try to package whatever my critique or criticism is when I'm supervising an editor in a way that at least, you know, I would want it. Cause I think there's just so much persuasion involved, right? Cause At the end of the day, like, if your heart isn't in the change being made as the editor, right? And you're just like, I'm just doing this because they said they want it and I'm just checking a box, it's going to be terrible. Then like, that's a way different mindset than like, okay, I see what you're after. Let me try to make that work. I have some challenges with like, the nature of the raw footage or like, you know, the audio or how, you know, wherever the technical issue is, and kind of really opening that up to a dialogue. Like, I think I learned a lot from the book how to win friends and influence people I don't know if you've ever read that one, but it's like this nuance to Getting somebody to do something that that you need them to do for a strategic reason whether it's a business goal or whatnot ⁓ Appeasing a client that they might not necessarily want to do because this was their baby, right? Like they crafted this like they play passion to this So I don't know does that get any of your gears turning like
speaker-0: While we are creative professionals, the work that we are in is collaborative, you know, and it has to be. And so there's at times where you're collaborating, I think with somebody, there's times where you're collaborating and you're like, okay, I own the vision and I need you to come on board with it and I'm going to be fiercely protective of this thing. And there's other times where you're like, this is a vision that I need to share with you and I need you to come to the table too. And if that's the case, then I have to trust you on some of these things. That persuasion, that collaboration is where, you know, there's projects I've done where the client was like, oh, this is nice. And it goes out in this, I'm massively proud of it because I see where we had four or five people that touched it and participated in it and created this thing through the hurdles or trials or, you know, the things that happened. Or when it's like super smooth and you're like, wow, like, how did we communicate so well and so easy that this thing like just burst itself so fast, you know? That's really the joy of collaboration. And I think that's where for me, I really enjoy the opportunity to be in a position where I'm collaborating with other editors in various scenarios, you know, whether it's a team or, you know, even for myself when I'm at an agency, but I collaborate with other agencies. I get the chance to work with other production companies and I think that's what makes the work ⁓ even more enjoyable when at the end of the day you're like, we did this. Because when I do things, I'm always like, the imposter syndrome raises its head. I'm like, ⁓ Joe would have done this so much better. Why did I do this? And you're like, but when you're together, you're like, hey, we made this thing and ⁓ hopefully it stands.
speaker-1: And so I've edited a lot of weddings in my time and I feel like a line that you hear often is when you're together, it's like your joys are multiplied and like your losses are diminutive, like distributed, right? They're shared. And it's like, maybe there's a parallel there. You know, the relationship, it's all relationship based, right? Essentially. So it sounds like the nature of the project, right? Like the, the, the vagueness or the clarity of the vision could be one of the variables that shapes, you know, which options you would consider. for post production, is that right? because your options are basically do it yourself, work with somebody else. And then once you go to work with someone else, then you've got like three or four different pathways you could go down. Is that one of the main variables you'd say? Or are there others in terms of like deciding which post solution you would go for?
speaker-0: I almost always for me, it's the budget and the time frame. ⁓ Because I can edit, if I have the budget to outsource, I want to because then I can do more projects. Or if it's something that I'm deeply personal to me, I might start the project and kind of lay some of the land out and then try and bring somebody in to finish it. But I think for the most part, those two things for me and my roles are almost always what determines The path that I go ⁓ budget and when do I have to have this thing done?
speaker-1: So going down the rabbit hole on budget a bit, because I am curious how this works. That's one of the main variables. It totally makes sense to determine which path you're going to go down, whether that's you have do it yourself because you have limited budget or you go external because you have more. How early in a project inception do you feel like that component is like, do you know which route you're going to need to go down or that you can go down?
speaker-0: So there's two different ways that I get projects now. One is where ⁓ it'll be something that I go after and I'm hunting it down and I'm creating, I'm pitching it and I'm doing those things. And in those cases, I'm probably mindful of the budget from the very early conversations of what we're talking about, the idea of when it would happen, how much it would take to do, and I'll be thinking that way right away. The other context that I'm in right now is that because I am in an ⁓ agency model, there's people that are bringing work in all the time. A good bit of those, like I am kind of getting that work. It's already been sold. It's already been given its parameters and I'm kind of completing it. And so in those cases, I'll already, I'll look at that and say, all right, hey, I know that this is a project that has a due date of a week from now and the budget is, not enough that I can get it out or even the time sometimes isn't enough that I can get it out to somebody and have them get it back through and be done. And so I'll use those kinds of variables for the determining that for most of my career. It's been going and having knowing what that budget is as a, you know, I present it and if they say, yes, I already know how I'm distributing that out.
speaker-1: Okay, so then on in that scenario, ⁓ and let's say you're doing the post, or you've at least got like some sort of line item, I assume with like a budget tied to it for editing. Are you tracking your time?
speaker-0: That'd be great if I did it, uh, diligently. Um, but I'll, uh, I'll normally try and do it when I'm budgeting it for myself or on a decent sized project. You know, we do a lot of like quick edit things or pieces like that. And sometimes those are really hard to track. they're like, this is like 10 minutes, but I'm doing like 10 of them in an hour or 10 of them in a day. You know, so I generally try and think of it in blocks of time and not necessarily to the to minute when I'm editing, if I'm shooting and I'm thinking, all right, this is probably gonna be a half day or a full day of editing. And let me just make sure I'm putting that budget into my schedule, or even budgeting that time as I'm looking at, you know, where the budget is being distributed. like the financial budget being distributed, I wanna be cognizant of the time budget as well.
speaker-1: feel like we could probably talk an entire hour on just budget stuff. The last question on that would be like, what are some of the drivers that you found that will push your estimations or in your, you know, your budget allocation for an edit up or down?
speaker-0: I know I I think for me, when, particularly even when I was running my own company with my wife, what I found would increase my budget more often than not would be when I either looked at how could I increase the deliverables or when I looked at, we're here to talk to the CEO about this upcoming event, right? The CEO is carving time out of his schedule to come and sit. And I was like, Two more minutes of an interview or five more minutes of an interview, what else can we create from that? 10 minutes of time, know, 10 more minutes on a set somewhere, you can create a vast amount of content. And so for me, where I would look at the levers of how do I increase my budget would be either one, how do I increase the deliverables of what we've already agreed to shoot? So is that, you know, a 15, a 30, is it going on web? for paid me, you know, where does it need to be the easiest distribution place for them, for the client. And then the second part would be, what is the peripheral things right around it that I could reach out and grab when they're already, we're already putting a lot of the work into the getting there, ⁓ what else can we add while we're there? Sometimes that'd be even like, if we're gonna go and we're gonna be filming at a location, right, ⁓ for a business, it's like, well, are there employees at this location? Are any of them happy to be here? Well, maybe we get a testimonial out of that or, you know, we're following your team to a look, you know, to a client. All right, well, you know, why don't we film this client talking about, know, and that creates a whole nother product. And that allows us to build out more budget. What I would often do though, too, is that I would, I would say this is our first priority. This is what we, that's what we're filming. We'll close this out. This is the timeframe, but we also have all these other things we can do. So. I know if I were to edit everything all at once for you, that's just too much. Like most of the people I'm working with, small teams, one person doing it. And so they can only, they only have so much bandwidth. And if I gave them everything all at once, it would just sit on the Google drive. So I was like, well, Hey, do this. We got this done three months from now. I'll deliver these things three months from there. We'll deliver these. If you want to flip flop any of that, let's go for it. But It gave me the to stretch that out, the edit time out, but also it gave me the ability to stay in relationship with those people because I have delayed deliverables for them and not just a one day or two day shoot.
speaker-1: Yeah, I think that just like extracting as much value from a production day, because I mean, the production, right, like that's a whole side of it. I don't thankfully have to deal with like a lot of people are thankful not to have to edit. I'm thankful not to have to shoot. But it's like if you're there, it's like a mechanic, right? Like you're already under the hood. You might as well change the air filter or whatever, you know, the extra thing is. And it seems similar in your case, right? Where you can just from there, it's like all editing. You just keep spinning out more and more deliverables. Until you hit a spot where you're like, you identify, we don't have this type of content. But if we did, it would unlock like all this other stuff we could do. And then now you're more sticky with the client, right? You can keep coming back for more shoots, fill that bucket of their archive or their library up and just keep repurposing and building more.
speaker-0: I think some of the best advice that I've gotten and have had for business and growing a business has been like, want to make it as easy to say yes for the other person. It doesn't need to be really complicated. The simpler you can make it, the more collaborative you can make that relationship, the longer you have that relationship. And so yeah, I think that's the, I think that's a really important thing is there's so many stories to be told. And there's so many places where content can go and could go, maybe should go. And if you are ⁓ leading that conversation, even just let them know, hey, I know there's a lot of other things we could do. I'm thinking that way too, that builds it. That builds that relationship, that builds that trust and confidence in you as a provider and partner in that.
speaker-1: Yeah, I think that's great. And one book that I always recommend whenever I have a conversation like this with a filmmaker in generating content ideas and showing up as a strategic partner for your client is They Ask You Answer by Marcus Sheridan. It's great for like, you can just come up with all of the questions that their clients would be asking when searching whether they're going to be hiring them for whatever your client service is, and then making content around that. And it's like a no brainer. Then you've just got like stuff that's actually driving value instead of like just showing up to shoot just to fill your own schedule up.
speaker-0: you hit right on it there, David, is that when you, when you can show that you understand what's valuable to them, it's an easy yes. It's the same thing for us, right? Like for me, when, uh, when I was working with editors and when I work with editors and they're coming in and they're, they're showing me that they get it and that they're, they're wanting to give value to me and what I'm trying to do. Yeah, that's a, that's a, we'll, we'll, we'll run with that as long as we can, you know, budget and timeline all those things that aside you know but what that's like I I want to work with you you get
speaker-1: Yeah, you become more indispensable for something that's harder to commoditize or compare to somebody else. Let's say it's either you in the past or ⁓ maybe another filmmaker or someone at an agency who is hitting this crossroads where they're like, we need editing done, we need post-production. There are options, unless you think of others, that I am aware of are like, do it themselves, hire someone in-house, hire a freelancer, or work B2B with a post-house. What are some of like, what would your advice be in determining what is the best fit for them?
speaker-0: think my advice would be, of all, if editing is the molasses for you in your production, if editing is the place where you lose the passion for the project and you start having frustrated clients and you yourself are getting into that distracted space, that's a really good sign that you should be ⁓ passing it on or bringing somebody in. I think the advice for me is It's not as scary to let go as it feels before you let go. Certainly, there's you got to do some intuition and some gut checks and see like who's right. And there's times where I have overpaid for editing ⁓ and the quality didn't come back as excellent as I hoped. But for the most part, I've been very fortunate that by building relationships with the editors that I do, ⁓ it's helped me be a better storyteller and even just the opportunity to grow as a in the gifts and talents that I have. So I think the best thing to do is is try it and start. ⁓ If if you have the ability to kind of work your way up, almost every filmmaker has a filmmaker friend who's like, I shoot so that I can edit, you know, and there's others that are like, I edit so that I can shoot, you know, and and When you meet each other and you're like, you're a great shooter and I like talking to people, why don't we just work together a bit more? And you start finding those relationships. know, one of the guys I've worked with now, he's an incredible shooter. mean, it's just very talented. And we've been working together now for almost 12 years and both have had incredible businesses and careers. And we walk into a set and it's like this like shorthand language that we have. Like he knows what I want to see. I know the things that he needs to get the shots that he wants and I know what I can do to help him succeed. That would have never started. That would have never happened if I had said, I have to shoot everything because if I don't shoot it, then maybe I'm not as talented a filmmaker or I'm scared of letting somebody else come onto the set. They'll take all my clients or whatever the baloney was. You have to take that first step. When you do that and you can start paying well, those talent, even like yourself, like we get paid a certain amount because we've worked ourselves to that level. And so you'll work that way too with the editors, with the relationships you have. If you're working on a $500 budget, you probably aren't going to a post house out of the gate. You have to be aware of where you're scaling and what the value is to you as a business owner too.
speaker-1: I would say like decide who you want to be in the relationship to you right like what do you want your role? you do you want to be a collaborator? Do you want to be the leader? Like the mentor for someone in-house, or do you want to be a client? It just depends on how you want to experience the projects
speaker-0: And I really have sat in all those seats. And it's fun because there's times where you're like, I just want, I just want this done. Like, I don't want to think about it. Let me get it to somebody and they do it all. One of my favorite parts has been, you know, for our in-house team, they started learning, they've and now they're sending stuff out that I don't even look at. Cause I know, I know that it's a quality and I know that they're growing. And if there's a mistake, they're going to work hard to fix it. Even if I was watching them, there's still going to be mistakes. I need to let them grow and learn and do that thing,
speaker-1: The revision process from the client is invaluable as far as a learning experience.
speaker-0: very much so and you start learning how to work with, you know, don't really ever want to anticipate a client or put them in a certain place, but the longer you work with clients, the more you start kind of seeing like, all right, I think they're going to be archetype is too strong a word, but like you can kind of get a feel of like, they're very excited about being very involved. They're going to want to like the project file at the end. And then there's others that are like, ⁓ I'm going to show it for 15 minutes and what you do before or after. is on you. Like I trust you to do. You know what you want to do. And you start getting the fun of that too.
speaker-1: It's such a diverse cast of characters. You never know who's going to be on the other side of the seat, both on the client side and on the editor side. think that that's why I'm so interested in having these conversations. thank you. Thank you, Andrew, so much for joining. yeah, just curious, how if people wanted to reach out or follow your work or see what you're up to, what are some of the best places to connect with you?
speaker-0: So you can always connect with me. ⁓ on LinkedIn. That's really about the only social platform I'm consistently active on. ⁓ So that's, I'll share all that good stuff with you. Of course, email. I'm old school. You can also schedule a time to talk with me too. I love chatting with people all over the world and ⁓ different work always fascinates me.
speaker-1: Yeah, awesome. Well, I've definitely enjoyed our chat. So thank you so much for being on and appreciate your time.
speaker-0: No thanks so much David, I appreciate it.
speaker-1: Thanks for joining Andrew and I in our conversation. I had a really great time chatting with him about the joy that he finds in collaboration. And he really reminded me that when you partner with others who are passionate and talented, the end product becomes something to be truly proud of. I really enjoyed my conversation with Andrew and I hope that you did too. I really appreciated talking about the joy that he finds in collaboration and he really reminded me that when you partner with others who are also passionate and talented, the end product is better than anything you could do on your own. To learn more about Andrew's work, you can find him and his team at Client Focused Media. To learn more about Andrew's work, you can find him and his team at Client Focused Media. We'll be sure to include his contact information in the show notes. Don't forget to subscribe. This has been Let's Fix Post.
speaker-1: you Welcome to Let's Fix Post, a show about making post-production smoother, smarter, and more collaborative for creative teams and editors alike. Make sure to hit subscribe so you don't miss out on future episodes. Today I'm joined by Andrew Cardy, the Senior Vice President of Video at Client Focused Media, a strategy-driven marketing agency. Andrew has a really interesting background that spans 20 years, from live theater to film to running his own production company, and now... at a large agency where he leads a team that specializes in creative video. He has a really unique and wide ranging perspective on post-production, having edited himself and managed both in-house and freelance editors. Today in our conversation, we cover the exact moment that Andrew realized he needed to outsource his editing and how that decision unlocked a new level of profitability for his company. We also talk about the different paths that are available to filmmakers for their post-production needs. from editing themselves to working with freelancers or a post-house. We also talk about the power of collaboration and why trusting your partners is a necessary step to professional growth. And lastly, Andrew shares his advice on when it's time to let go of the editing reins and to trust someone else to do it better. I really enjoyed our conversation and I hope that you do too. Let's get into it. So I'm here with Andrew Cardy and we're going to be chatting through your experiences of working with editors in different capacities, whether that's internally with an in-house team, freelancers, B2B post situation or editing yourself. But before we get into all that, just curious, know, introduce yourself, tell us what you've been up to and the company that you're at.
speaker-0: Yeah, well, thanks again so much, David, for having me on the show. It's a real pleasure to have the chance to talk with you about this. I don't always think of myself as somebody who's experienced a lot, but as we've been pre-talking, I'm like, ⁓ yeah, I did that, did that, that, that. I've been a creative professional for 20 years now, ⁓ started in live theater, moved into film. And ⁓ then I had a company with my wife for about 10 years, and then we were acquired by a larger agency. And so worked with a lot of different contexts and a lot of different places, ⁓ local startups, nonprofits to national brands, some international companies too. So ⁓ lots of fun ⁓ and ⁓ can't wait to see what the next years hold too. So right now I'm at an agency called Client Focused Media. We're based in Jacksonville, Florida. I've got a super fancy title, ⁓ Senior Vice President of Video. But what that really means is ⁓ I get to build and develop our video department team. We actually have a couple different video offerings in the company. So we do digital talk shows and ⁓ virtual interviews. We also have a social media department. And my department is really focused on
speaker-1: And what is your role there?
speaker-0: the what we call creative video. What I think traditionally most people think of when they're like, I'm a, I have a video production company. That's really where I've paid my dues and earned my stripes and where I still am, still a Matt. So we've got a nice, a nice team here and a good, a good group of vendors and collaborators that we work with for our clients. And most of our clients are based here in Jacksonville with, with roots throughout the U S.
speaker-1: Yeah, there was a reason I reached out to you because you've had I picked up that you had quite a range of experiences, not only in production, but, you know, more specifically in post production. so, yeah, let's talk through a little bit about that.
speaker-0: This sounds great, let's get to it!
speaker-1: I was very interested to chat with you because you had, from my impression, quite a range of experiences with different posts, whether you've done that yourself, you have an in-house team member, and every time I talk to you, you're mentioning other editors that you're aware of or different solutions or different companies, and you've edited yourself too, right? You were just mentioning working on your reel. Can you give us the high-level perspective of what you've experienced through posts?
speaker-0: I think for me, my journey with post really began when I realized I didn't actually like editing. I was a couple of years into into my own company. I would just thrive in with the pre-production, with the pitching, the selling, the developing the ideas, shooting the ideas. And then I get to the post-production phase and it'd be like the brakes screeching, like running through walls like it was like a cool, cool aid running through walls. It was like a the project was super profitable and then I get to post production and I'd be like, I might be working for like 25 cents an hour. And so I had a friend of mine that was like, you know, you really got to do what you're good at. Like there's other people that can help you with these with the post production and that's actually what they love to do and are superbly talented at it. So I think I first started out just getting out online a couple of communities that I'm part of and saying, I've gotten to edit because somebody helped me with this and and a few people raised their hands and ⁓ got on the phone and figured out they weren't quite as expensive as I thought they were going to be. And the fact that it wasn't on my plate made it very much worth the cost to me. And then when they turned it around and it was like it had been my vision, but taken even further, ⁓ I was like, this is this is kind of a no brainer. Um, and so that probably started a number of the relationships I had. So I started working with a couple of different editors and then I'd have projects that would come up and I'd say, Oh, Hey, is somebody else available that I might be able to use for this? Certainly worked with people that were like, shoot it, edit it, do it all themselves. But I think for me, um, where I really found a real good balance, think was in being able to identify the project and able to identify the type of edit I needed. And if I was comfortable with that, if I had somebody in a house that could do that great. And if not. I'd probably be looking for somebody that had some nuances to that.
speaker-1: Were most of the editors he worked with like on a freelance basis or like? Yeah. Speak a little bit maybe about how that experience has been different than managing an in-house editor.
speaker-0: Most of my experience has actually been with outsourcing the edit. I feel like for the most part where I've found success there has been in being able to build a relationship with the editor. I'll look at the stuff they're shooting and sometimes they'll send me some edits that they've done and sometimes not. I mean it's kind of weird to say like I didn't watch somebody edit it, I didn't see it. But there's certain inability that when you're on a phone call with somebody and you hear them talk about editing or talk about... I'm like, you get it. I don't need you to show me all the technical tools you have and the plugins and the, and the extensions that you use. Like I don't, I actually don't care at the end of the day. I just need this piece to feel the way I needed to feel. And hopefully, you know, be able to open up the project file and not be like crazy lost if I need to like tweak a name or, you know, tighten the shot for a second. So that really was helpful for me. And I've also, I forgot to say too, I also did some of that. Like I've used some of the programs that were outsourced editors as well, where they pay a monthly fee and you submit in the projects for them. And that was really good for me when I first was starting to edit because that got most everything that got to probably like 75, 80 % of things done. And it was pretty detailed, organized. It helped me kind of build what my file structure looks like because. I started seeing how they were doing it and I liked it and it flowed fine for me. But yeah, when I've been working with outsource editors or even the, you know, whether it's company, whether it's an individual, I tend to come relationship first and then trust whatever process they have to get there, they're gonna be able to get there. Now conversely, when I've had in-house editors, most of the time it's I'm teaching them. And so they've been pretty green or just learning early in their careers. And so I want to try and provide that structure for them to be able to learn, to develop their own pacing, their own styling, but almost always because I'm the one teaching them, they're kind of following in after, after me and my habits, good or bad.
speaker-1: Yeah, I love that you mentioned like the relationship first. I feel like that's always been like very critical on the other side of this, relationship, right? As an editor, like being able to talk to who, you know, is driving the project, who the stakeholders are, like what the vision is, the person who has all of that information. I don't understand. And maybe you can share some of this experience too, but I've always looked at some of the other businesses where it does feel more transactional, like there's more of a, like a portal. that you buy credits and then that counts towards a certain amount or whatever, right? How did the relationship element factor into like that experience? Like was that there as part of the like onboarding or was it pre-transactional?
speaker-0: No, so the one that I used, they were a startup at the time that I was working with them. And so I think what helped me with them is that I was talking directly with the founder, the owner of the company that started it. That is where the gap of the types of projects I was sending to them or the quality that I was expecting back wasn't quite there because they didn't have a relationship with the editor. didn't have a relationship with the project manager. ⁓ filling out a portal, sending it, and based on my pitch, they'd either get it or not. Whereas with when I've been able to work one-on-one with a freelancer or a ⁓ team of freelancers or a company like that, or a small team like that, it really does make a big difference because I'm casting the vision and inviting them into the vision. And I'll have some parameters, like I need it to be this space or these are the keywords I need. But I really am trusting them to bring their best to that place the way that I have brought my best the first part of it.
speaker-1: So in those opportunities where you did have a moment to kind of do the pre post, right, where you get a chance to talk to them and whatnot and share some insight, how much did you have to take the onus of preparing all those things and being like, I got to make sure and, you know, light them at all this versus like, how much did they show up to the table and say, like, here are all the questions, it feels exhaustive. And then you leave going like, ⁓ they asked more than I would have even thought. How has your experience fallen on those different ends of the spectrum?
speaker-0: I've kind of been on both sides of the spectrum and I appreciate ⁓ the ability and when I'm doing pre-production for a shoot to be able to ask questions and have as many of the variables ⁓ for a set as I can. So when I walk onto a set, when I walk in with talent or with a subject, there's a lot that I don't know, a lot that will happen, but the things that I do know, I want to know what those kind of guardrails are. And so I think when I'm working with an editor and they're asking those questions, I really appreciate that because it's their way of setting what those guardrails are for themselves. And there's times for me where somebody will have a very exhaustive list and sometimes I don't always answer all the questions because I haven't thought that deeply about the color palette. I'm like, this is what I shot. I don't know what color palette may exist or may not exist, but this is what we shot and the tone and the vibe that we shot it in. And God bless you. ⁓ And there's other times where I can understand the questions that they're asking are really helping them have a real clear idea of, you know, the pace, the story that matters to me, the quality of the cuts. I appreciate when someone comes with those questions because I like the ability to come with the questions in my processes too.
speaker-1: If you're the next to get the baton, you're asking the person who was running the race before you, let's see how far I can take this analogy. Where are the and valleys? What are the challenges so that by the time you're the one running it, you can navigate those more smoothly?
speaker-0: Yeah, and the same thing with the handoff. They need to know how fast you've been running and you know, like, hey, you've already done your lap. Like they gotta go on theirs now. So when I'm talking with someone, like, hey, you know, this client like was looking off screen all the time, you know, we're gonna rely on the B roll a lot more on this take. Or if I'm in a moment and I hear something, I'm like, this is like the key that unlocks this. And so here's the phrase and just. However, you find that phrase or display that phrase or run with that phrase like this is that's the meat of of what they said it was a surprise to me because I can provide them all the pre-production I can provide them all the you know when we're on a set and we're detailing how it goes and we're logging that footage in but For them to take that puzzle and put it together with the you know the picture that I had in my mind when we clicked record That's kind of the magic of collaboration to right
speaker-1: The notes that you took from how the shoot actually went versus how you were anticipating it going are huge for an editor. Having been in that seat, I always appreciate notes from the day of where it's like, here's how we wanted it to go, but here's how it actually went. So here's some things to keep an eye out for. I already know there's going to be a trouble spot, so start thinking creatively of what you do to overcome that. But rewinding even further, so have you ever brought post production in or like a vantage point of an editor before you've even shot or maybe even during the pitching phase to a client when you're like figuring out the concept.
speaker-0: You know, that's a really great question. I don't think I have. I'll be thinking post-production myself as the producer, director, and I'm trying to think if there's times where I have. We've done some online courses. We did have one client where we did one project where I had brought an editor in at the end. and then we worked so well the client really enjoyed the work we did together and so the client then was like hey we want to do another one and that's when the actual the editor worked with him beforehand to create some of the graphics that then our course that we were then shooting was going to come into but the editor and i didn't necessarily have an interplay of like all right here's the graphics and this is how you could shoot it now it was more of like a He's got that done now, so I can actually get to market a lot faster. I don't think I've actually had a time where I've, other than like an event coverage, but that's when we're like, everybody's wearing the shooter editor hat and there's a small crew and you're like, I'm shooting and editing this within 48 hours. And so when this guy's shooting, I'm editing and taking his footage and logging it and trying to organize it in a way that when I'm shooting and he's editing, he knows where things are. ⁓
speaker-1: Let's fast forward real quick to during a project with an editor. Have you found any efficient ways or mindsets that you like to keep in mind when going through that revision process or that back and forth after you've seen a first draft?
speaker-0: Yes, because I've done it enough. It probably is a process, but I don't have it. It's not like a written out SOP. It's not something that's really assigned agreement on, but generally speaking, where I find the misses are when I've worked with outsourced outsourced editors or in-house editors, it generally comes around either either a pacing where I'd like it to be a varied pace or this part feels a little too fast and just slow it down or it's in you know, some of the messaging, like could we, could this part was actually really important for the client. Now know when you're editing and you're like, this is a 32nd phrase to get to the payoff. Sometimes as an editor, you're taking that and go, well, I've got all these other things I want to try and fit in. I'm going to, I'm going to cut this thing. And so most of time for me, when I'm working with an editor, tends to be that when I'm saying, all right, Hey, I know this is a long sound bite, but we need it. Like that's, that's the crux of what the client said. So it tends to be in the priority of messaging or in the pace of and feel. ⁓ And so most of those conversations can be pretty easy, I find, because ⁓ ideally you've already kind of set this is the goal of the story. ⁓ Whether it's because we, I tend to over communicate at the front end or I'm too trusting of the editor. I'm not sure. I haven't really had many times. where I've gotten an edit back from somebody and I say, ah, this is like just way, way off. Like try to get training young guys. Sometimes you get there, but it's even then I think it's in the communication ahead of time that sets you up for success. And as a producer, I want to be willing to let that editor be an awesome editor and they're going to, they're going to make cuts. They're going to make transitions. They're going to make pacing choices that I wouldn't But also that's the role I need them to be. I don't want to, I don't like it when I'm in a project and somebody else is like critiquing every single second or frame of it. Cause I'm like, I did the thing yourself. you, know, like clearly you know how to do this. Cause this one frame is bothering you, you know? ⁓ and so as a, as a producer, I try not to be that for the people that are working for me or working with me on it, you know?
speaker-1: I've been in a weird seat, I'd say. Maybe, I think you've probably been similar, right? Where it's like, I've been both the one getting revisions and I've also been the one giving them. And so having been the one that gets them, I'm like, there's definitely a certain way I respond better, personally, as just like a human, right? When someone's communicating something. So I'm like, I'm going to try to package whatever my critique or criticism is when I'm supervising an editor in a way that at least, you know, I would want it. Cause I think there's just so much persuasion involved, right? Cause At the end of the day, like, if your heart isn't in the change being made as the editor, right? And you're just like, I'm just doing this because they said they want it and I'm just checking a box, it's going to be terrible. Then like, that's a way different mindset than like, okay, I see what you're after. Let me try to make that work. I have some challenges with like, the nature of the raw footage or like, you know, the audio or how, you know, wherever the technical issue is, and kind of really opening that up to a dialogue. Like, I think I learned a lot from the book how to win friends and influence people I don't know if you've ever read that one, but it's like this nuance to Getting somebody to do something that that you need them to do for a strategic reason whether it's a business goal or whatnot ⁓ Appeasing a client that they might not necessarily want to do because this was their baby, right? Like they crafted this like they play passion to this So I don't know does that get any of your gears turning like
speaker-0: While we are creative professionals, the work that we are in is collaborative, you know, and it has to be. And so there's at times where you're collaborating, I think with somebody, there's times where you're collaborating and you're like, okay, I own the vision and I need you to come on board with it and I'm going to be fiercely protective of this thing. And there's other times where you're like, this is a vision that I need to share with you and I need you to come to the table too. And if that's the case, then I have to trust you on some of these things. That persuasion, that collaboration is where, you know, there's projects I've done where the client was like, oh, this is nice. And it goes out in this, I'm massively proud of it because I see where we had four or five people that touched it and participated in it and created this thing through the hurdles or trials or, you know, the things that happened. Or when it's like super smooth and you're like, wow, like, how did we communicate so well and so easy that this thing like just burst itself so fast, you know? That's really the joy of collaboration. And I think that's where for me, I really enjoy the opportunity to be in a position where I'm collaborating with other editors in various scenarios, you know, whether it's a team or, you know, even for myself when I'm at an agency, but I collaborate with other agencies. I get the chance to work with other production companies and I think that's what makes the work ⁓ even more enjoyable when at the end of the day you're like, we did this. Because when I do things, I'm always like, the imposter syndrome raises its head. I'm like, ⁓ Joe would have done this so much better. Why did I do this? And you're like, but when you're together, you're like, hey, we made this thing and ⁓ hopefully it stands.
speaker-1: And so I've edited a lot of weddings in my time and I feel like a line that you hear often is when you're together, it's like your joys are multiplied and like your losses are diminutive, like distributed, right? They're shared. And it's like, maybe there's a parallel there. You know, the relationship, it's all relationship based, right? Essentially. So it sounds like the nature of the project, right? Like the, the, the vagueness or the clarity of the vision could be one of the variables that shapes, you know, which options you would consider. for post production, is that right? because your options are basically do it yourself, work with somebody else. And then once you go to work with someone else, then you've got like three or four different pathways you could go down. Is that one of the main variables you'd say? Or are there others in terms of like deciding which post solution you would go for?
speaker-0: I almost always for me, it's the budget and the time frame. ⁓ Because I can edit, if I have the budget to outsource, I want to because then I can do more projects. Or if it's something that I'm deeply personal to me, I might start the project and kind of lay some of the land out and then try and bring somebody in to finish it. But I think for the most part, those two things for me and my roles are almost always what determines The path that I go ⁓ budget and when do I have to have this thing done?
speaker-1: So going down the rabbit hole on budget a bit, because I am curious how this works. That's one of the main variables. It totally makes sense to determine which path you're going to go down, whether that's you have do it yourself because you have limited budget or you go external because you have more. How early in a project inception do you feel like that component is like, do you know which route you're going to need to go down or that you can go down?
speaker-0: So there's two different ways that I get projects now. One is where ⁓ it'll be something that I go after and I'm hunting it down and I'm creating, I'm pitching it and I'm doing those things. And in those cases, I'm probably mindful of the budget from the very early conversations of what we're talking about, the idea of when it would happen, how much it would take to do, and I'll be thinking that way right away. The other context that I'm in right now is that because I am in an ⁓ agency model, there's people that are bringing work in all the time. A good bit of those, like I am kind of getting that work. It's already been sold. It's already been given its parameters and I'm kind of completing it. And so in those cases, I'll already, I'll look at that and say, all right, hey, I know that this is a project that has a due date of a week from now and the budget is, not enough that I can get it out or even the time sometimes isn't enough that I can get it out to somebody and have them get it back through and be done. And so I'll use those kinds of variables for the determining that for most of my career. It's been going and having knowing what that budget is as a, you know, I present it and if they say, yes, I already know how I'm distributing that out.
speaker-1: Okay, so then on in that scenario, ⁓ and let's say you're doing the post, or you've at least got like some sort of line item, I assume with like a budget tied to it for editing. Are you tracking your time?
speaker-0: That'd be great if I did it, uh, diligently. Um, but I'll, uh, I'll normally try and do it when I'm budgeting it for myself or on a decent sized project. You know, we do a lot of like quick edit things or pieces like that. And sometimes those are really hard to track. they're like, this is like 10 minutes, but I'm doing like 10 of them in an hour or 10 of them in a day. You know, so I generally try and think of it in blocks of time and not necessarily to the to minute when I'm editing, if I'm shooting and I'm thinking, all right, this is probably gonna be a half day or a full day of editing. And let me just make sure I'm putting that budget into my schedule, or even budgeting that time as I'm looking at, you know, where the budget is being distributed. like the financial budget being distributed, I wanna be cognizant of the time budget as well.
speaker-1: feel like we could probably talk an entire hour on just budget stuff. The last question on that would be like, what are some of the drivers that you found that will push your estimations or in your, you know, your budget allocation for an edit up or down?
speaker-0: I know I I think for me, when, particularly even when I was running my own company with my wife, what I found would increase my budget more often than not would be when I either looked at how could I increase the deliverables or when I looked at, we're here to talk to the CEO about this upcoming event, right? The CEO is carving time out of his schedule to come and sit. And I was like, Two more minutes of an interview or five more minutes of an interview, what else can we create from that? 10 minutes of time, know, 10 more minutes on a set somewhere, you can create a vast amount of content. And so for me, where I would look at the levers of how do I increase my budget would be either one, how do I increase the deliverables of what we've already agreed to shoot? So is that, you know, a 15, a 30, is it going on web? for paid me, you know, where does it need to be the easiest distribution place for them, for the client. And then the second part would be, what is the peripheral things right around it that I could reach out and grab when they're already, we're already putting a lot of the work into the getting there, ⁓ what else can we add while we're there? Sometimes that'd be even like, if we're gonna go and we're gonna be filming at a location, right, ⁓ for a business, it's like, well, are there employees at this location? Are any of them happy to be here? Well, maybe we get a testimonial out of that or, you know, we're following your team to a look, you know, to a client. All right, well, you know, why don't we film this client talking about, know, and that creates a whole nother product. And that allows us to build out more budget. What I would often do though, too, is that I would, I would say this is our first priority. This is what we, that's what we're filming. We'll close this out. This is the timeframe, but we also have all these other things we can do. So. I know if I were to edit everything all at once for you, that's just too much. Like most of the people I'm working with, small teams, one person doing it. And so they can only, they only have so much bandwidth. And if I gave them everything all at once, it would just sit on the Google drive. So I was like, well, Hey, do this. We got this done three months from now. I'll deliver these things three months from there. We'll deliver these. If you want to flip flop any of that, let's go for it. But It gave me the to stretch that out, the edit time out, but also it gave me the ability to stay in relationship with those people because I have delayed deliverables for them and not just a one day or two day shoot.
speaker-1: Yeah, I think that just like extracting as much value from a production day, because I mean, the production, right, like that's a whole side of it. I don't thankfully have to deal with like a lot of people are thankful not to have to edit. I'm thankful not to have to shoot. But it's like if you're there, it's like a mechanic, right? Like you're already under the hood. You might as well change the air filter or whatever, you know, the extra thing is. And it seems similar in your case, right? Where you can just from there, it's like all editing. You just keep spinning out more and more deliverables. Until you hit a spot where you're like, you identify, we don't have this type of content. But if we did, it would unlock like all this other stuff we could do. And then now you're more sticky with the client, right? You can keep coming back for more shoots, fill that bucket of their archive or their library up and just keep repurposing and building more.
speaker-0: I think some of the best advice that I've gotten and have had for business and growing a business has been like, want to make it as easy to say yes for the other person. It doesn't need to be really complicated. The simpler you can make it, the more collaborative you can make that relationship, the longer you have that relationship. And so yeah, I think that's the, I think that's a really important thing is there's so many stories to be told. And there's so many places where content can go and could go, maybe should go. And if you are ⁓ leading that conversation, even just let them know, hey, I know there's a lot of other things we could do. I'm thinking that way too, that builds it. That builds that relationship, that builds that trust and confidence in you as a provider and partner in that.
speaker-1: Yeah, I think that's great. And one book that I always recommend whenever I have a conversation like this with a filmmaker in generating content ideas and showing up as a strategic partner for your client is They Ask You Answer by Marcus Sheridan. It's great for like, you can just come up with all of the questions that their clients would be asking when searching whether they're going to be hiring them for whatever your client service is, and then making content around that. And it's like a no brainer. Then you've just got like stuff that's actually driving value instead of like just showing up to shoot just to fill your own schedule up.
speaker-0: you hit right on it there, David, is that when you, when you can show that you understand what's valuable to them, it's an easy yes. It's the same thing for us, right? Like for me, when, uh, when I was working with editors and when I work with editors and they're coming in and they're, they're showing me that they get it and that they're, they're wanting to give value to me and what I'm trying to do. Yeah, that's a, that's a, we'll, we'll, we'll run with that as long as we can, you know, budget and timeline all those things that aside you know but what that's like I I want to work with you you get
speaker-1: Yeah, you become more indispensable for something that's harder to commoditize or compare to somebody else. Let's say it's either you in the past or ⁓ maybe another filmmaker or someone at an agency who is hitting this crossroads where they're like, we need editing done, we need post-production. There are options, unless you think of others, that I am aware of are like, do it themselves, hire someone in-house, hire a freelancer, or work B2B with a post-house. What are some of like, what would your advice be in determining what is the best fit for them?
speaker-0: think my advice would be, of all, if editing is the molasses for you in your production, if editing is the place where you lose the passion for the project and you start having frustrated clients and you yourself are getting into that distracted space, that's a really good sign that you should be ⁓ passing it on or bringing somebody in. I think the advice for me is It's not as scary to let go as it feels before you let go. Certainly, there's you got to do some intuition and some gut checks and see like who's right. And there's times where I have overpaid for editing ⁓ and the quality didn't come back as excellent as I hoped. But for the most part, I've been very fortunate that by building relationships with the editors that I do, ⁓ it's helped me be a better storyteller and even just the opportunity to grow as a in the gifts and talents that I have. So I think the best thing to do is is try it and start. ⁓ If if you have the ability to kind of work your way up, almost every filmmaker has a filmmaker friend who's like, I shoot so that I can edit, you know, and there's others that are like, I edit so that I can shoot, you know, and and When you meet each other and you're like, you're a great shooter and I like talking to people, why don't we just work together a bit more? And you start finding those relationships. know, one of the guys I've worked with now, he's an incredible shooter. mean, it's just very talented. And we've been working together now for almost 12 years and both have had incredible businesses and careers. And we walk into a set and it's like this like shorthand language that we have. Like he knows what I want to see. I know the things that he needs to get the shots that he wants and I know what I can do to help him succeed. That would have never started. That would have never happened if I had said, I have to shoot everything because if I don't shoot it, then maybe I'm not as talented a filmmaker or I'm scared of letting somebody else come onto the set. They'll take all my clients or whatever the baloney was. You have to take that first step. When you do that and you can start paying well, those talent, even like yourself, like we get paid a certain amount because we've worked ourselves to that level. And so you'll work that way too with the editors, with the relationships you have. If you're working on a $500 budget, you probably aren't going to a post house out of the gate. You have to be aware of where you're scaling and what the value is to you as a business owner too.
speaker-1: I would say like decide who you want to be in the relationship to you right like what do you want your role? you do you want to be a collaborator? Do you want to be the leader? Like the mentor for someone in-house, or do you want to be a client? It just depends on how you want to experience the projects
speaker-0: And I really have sat in all those seats. And it's fun because there's times where you're like, I just want, I just want this done. Like, I don't want to think about it. Let me get it to somebody and they do it all. One of my favorite parts has been, you know, for our in-house team, they started learning, they've and now they're sending stuff out that I don't even look at. Cause I know, I know that it's a quality and I know that they're growing. And if there's a mistake, they're going to work hard to fix it. Even if I was watching them, there's still going to be mistakes. I need to let them grow and learn and do that thing,
speaker-1: The revision process from the client is invaluable as far as a learning experience.
speaker-0: very much so and you start learning how to work with, you know, don't really ever want to anticipate a client or put them in a certain place, but the longer you work with clients, the more you start kind of seeing like, all right, I think they're going to be archetype is too strong a word, but like you can kind of get a feel of like, they're very excited about being very involved. They're going to want to like the project file at the end. And then there's others that are like, ⁓ I'm going to show it for 15 minutes and what you do before or after. is on you. Like I trust you to do. You know what you want to do. And you start getting the fun of that too.
speaker-1: It's such a diverse cast of characters. You never know who's going to be on the other side of the seat, both on the client side and on the editor side. think that that's why I'm so interested in having these conversations. thank you. Thank you, Andrew, so much for joining. yeah, just curious, how if people wanted to reach out or follow your work or see what you're up to, what are some of the best places to connect with you?
speaker-0: So you can always connect with me. ⁓ on LinkedIn. That's really about the only social platform I'm consistently active on. ⁓ So that's, I'll share all that good stuff with you. Of course, email. I'm old school. You can also schedule a time to talk with me too. I love chatting with people all over the world and ⁓ different work always fascinates me.
speaker-1: Yeah, awesome. Well, I've definitely enjoyed our chat. So thank you so much for being on and appreciate your time.
speaker-0: No thanks so much David, I appreciate it.
speaker-1: Thanks for joining Andrew and I in our conversation. I had a really great time chatting with him about the joy that he finds in collaboration. And he really reminded me that when you partner with others who are passionate and talented, the end product becomes something to be truly proud of. I really enjoyed my conversation with Andrew and I hope that you did too. I really appreciated talking about the joy that he finds in collaboration and he really reminded me that when you partner with others who are also passionate and talented, the end product is better than anything you could do on your own. To learn more about Andrew's work, you can find him and his team at Client Focused Media. To learn more about Andrew's work, you can find him and his team at Client Focused Media. We'll be sure to include his contact information in the show notes. Don't forget to subscribe. This has been Let's Fix Post.
