Episode 23 - 38 Spesh

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Tef, you ever been to the Apollo Theater?
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No, I've never been to the Apollo, bro.
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But welcome to my home.
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You know what I'm saying?
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Like, I grew up in New York City as a musician and as a musician from New York City.
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The Apollo Theater is legendary.
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We are in Harlem.
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This is the Black Mecca.
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The Apollo Theater was started in 1913, and so many acts have come through here from Ella Fitzgerald to James Brown to Lauren Hale to even as recently as her.
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People got their start on the stage.
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You know, Jessica Care Moore, whose family, she got a star here.
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And all of us, black people, grew up, grew up watching Showtime at the Apollo.
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So it's only fitting that we get to do this episode here with our special guest, 38 Special.
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Definitely in the house.
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Definitely.
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What's up, man?
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How you doing?
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How you doing, my brother?
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Man, appreciate you having me, man.
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Expect special.
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Always.
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Yeah, the Apollo Theater represents like I'm gonna start like this.
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James Brown became famous really when he did his album here, Live from the Apollo.
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So before that, it was more like he was doing like please, please, please, and records that were like more pop and for the radio, but uh the white audiences were not ready to understand how he what his performance was.
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And live at the Apollo is the first time you hear James Brown performing in front of a black audience.
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You hear the screams, you feel like you're in the building.
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And that's what really, I think, really set his career on a path for him to become one of the greats.
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Before that, he was just a regular RB star.
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You know what I'm saying?
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But he came from this down south and had to come to New York City.
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You come from upstate, right?
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And you've been making the rounds on the podcast, and you've been really representing upstate and really representing Rochester.
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And you really have been vocal about how New York has been a gatekeeper, the city has been a gatekeeper.
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So I wanted to start with that discussion.
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Definitely.
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So, you know, like coming from Rochester, it's it's hard.
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Like, New York City is definitely the mecca of hip hop, you know?
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Which, you know, everything started here.
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Like, being from a place that's six hours away, it's kind of very hard to be accepted.
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No matter how good you are.
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You know what I'm saying?
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So that was something, that was a barrier I had to break that took years just to get New York City to understand that it's other spitters outside of the boroughs.
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That was a fight in itself, you know what I'm saying?
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And um took a while to crack that, you know, consistency, consistency, consistency, you know, bars, balls, balls.
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And now they finally starting to see, like, okay, you know, it's some people that actually know how to rap very well.
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Yeah, you know, from upstate, you know what I'm saying?
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But it's been a long time of fighting.
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Yeah.
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You know what I mean?
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I'm sure you can relate as well.
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Yeah, coming from the Midwest, man, for sure.
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Honestly, that's I think that's why so many people from the mid relate to the upstate movement.
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Because we fight in the same battle to get embraced as people who could actually rap and come from a part of the world that's kind of a little bit more remote than the coastal elite cities.
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Uh, the violence be different.
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Right.
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You know what I'm saying?
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Like, I'm sure you you relate to being the biggest from where you're from is different than being the biggest in one of the actual big cities.
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You know, you gotta be way more militant.
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Facts.
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Facts.
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Y'all both deal with very cities that have been plagued with violence.
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You know, Rochester was murder capital for a long time.
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One thing I noticed about people, me being a New Yorker, I ran around with street dudes.
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But when I first started, I don't know how it is now, because I'm older now, but when I first started in the city, the street dudes really didn't gel with the rap dudes like that back in the day.
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And so what when you had like Jay-Z, who was the hustler, you had Wu Tang coming from the hustler background, it was like an anomaly.
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Right as opposed, it was like, you know what I'm saying?
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Like they, they, they, they weren't any less hip-hop, but there was like a clear, my experience was there was a clear distinction.
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And then when I went out to Cincinnati, we've talked about this on the show, I went to work with High Tech in Cincinnati, and I noticed that all the black people there, the only opportunities they had was to sell drugs.
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In New York City, I could go from Brooklyn to Manhattan and see black people and immigrants doing all types of different things.
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But when I left outside of New York, as far as the hip-hop space went, all the hip-hop people I was rocking with was all in the street culture, all doing street things.
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Do y'all feel like it's Hell yeah.
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Yeah.
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I wanted to ask him a question about that, actually.
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Like um, being independent.
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And they got this thing called the drug dealer underground.
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People like Boosie have to come through like this mock Chitlin circuit coming out of the South.
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They hit Arkansas, they hit Memphis, they hit St.
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Louis.
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What is the upstate version of that?
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Like the mandatory spots you gotta hit.
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Well, the upstate Chitlin circuit would be um Pennsylvania, New York, Connecticut, Boston, well, Massachusetts, you know what I'm saying?
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Uh the whole New York State, you know, summer Ohio.
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It works its way up to even Detroit and Chicago.
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You know what I'm saying?
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But like the main area, our main areas that that keep, you know, that I'm in heavy would be the Tri-State area, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts.
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That's kind of like our Chitlin, you know, circuit for our area.
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Yeah, I always wondered about that.
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Because I meet these coast independent rappers?
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That's a good question.
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Yeah.
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Because, you know, that's people don't really understand what the Chitlin circuit is.
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You know what I'm saying?
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Like, like, and people don't really even understand that music is regional.
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That, you know, and once you get an understanding of that, you know, you you kind of know how to approach it.
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You know, people be making music for other regions, not really realizing that, like, you know, you got a circuit that's your area that you could eat off of, but you gotta feed them.
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You know?
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And uh that that that's that's those is the areas, though.
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Hip-hop, because it's really to make great hip-hop, you have to tap into your soul and your community, I feel.
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And hip-hop more than any music is regional.
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And if you don't touch the people where you're from first, it's very hard for you to be recognized as a hip-hop great.
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I agree with hip hop.
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You said it's a great.
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That's important.
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I feel like that's your quest, man.
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You want to be a great, you know what I'm saying?
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Like you were pushing to be recognized with with them dudes, you know what I'm saying?
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Definitely, bro.
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You know, like, man, I I I came in this joint, you know, my first real album was Son of G-Rap.
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You know what I'm saying?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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So shout out to D G-Rap, man.
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We don't talk about G-Rap.
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Shout out to D Rap Gonna enough.
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He's so foundational.
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It's just rap trees.
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There's roots, styles.
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Right?
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And G-Rap is a tree that a lot of styles come.
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We talk about Big Pun, we talk about Black Thought, we talk about Nas, all of Queensbridge, right?
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Really, like there's a lot of, there's not enough respect put on that man's name.
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Right.
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So I'm glad you did that project.
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Facts, though.
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So, you know, that was like, that's like the foundation for me.
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Like working with the greats, being great, you know what I'm saying, and uh pushing my pen to the maximum level, man.
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You know, surrounding myself with the best of the best spitters, running towards that.
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Like, you know what I'm saying?
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And that's that's that's what it's about for me, man.
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Um, tell us how you started The Trust Comes First with the label and the crew, and what that represents to you.
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So, you know, I started it back in 2014.
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You know what I'm saying?
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Uh I realized that people respect movements, and sometimes, you know, movements could be bigger than the artists.
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That's true.
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Uh originally I was uh doing it by myself, just spitting, and I realized, like, you know, I need to like build a movement.
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All of my initial friends, none of them rapped.
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But I had relationships with artists throughout my journey, and I knew who was talented.
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Benny happened to be one of them.
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So when I first started Trust Come First, Benny was one of the artists that I initially signed to the company.
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So, you know, it was a few of us, and we were putting out music in that area and getting a real good, making an impact in our area.
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It ain't really traveled too far outside of our area, but in our area, we had a strong impact.
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And um, I still didn't know how to like liquidate the situation.
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We were just putting out music, giving it away for free.
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These were the mixtape days.
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We just wanted to be heard.
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So doing that caused a lack of consistency because I wasn't making no money off it.
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So I'm focusing on other things.
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And uh, you know, that was around the rise of Griselda.
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You know, I I stopped putting out music because I was doing other things, and then, you know, Benny went over there.
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And then I got to see, like, oh, okay, they're paying attention to this area.
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Yeah.
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And that was enough motivation for me to be like, okay, I'm about to start back, you know, focusing on music.
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But once I put all my energy into the music, then I started seeing the results that I needed.
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But I never, prior to that, I never put the energy that was needed into music.
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See, that's the thing about it.
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A lot of artists be thinking they're going hard when they really not.
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A lot of artists have plan B's.
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Yeah.
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Can you explain that?
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I think that's important what you just said.
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Shout out to Redhead Kingpin.
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Redhead Kingpin got a record called We Don't Have No Plan B.
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And in the video, my grandmother, Javodi Green, is in that video.
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Wow.
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That's fine.
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At the bar, like getting a drink at the bar in the Red Hat Kingpin video.
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And that's the name of my label, Javodi.
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Wow.
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Yeah.
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Shout out to Javodi Green, the Redhead Kingpin.
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We don't have no plan B.
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That's deep.
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No, that's real, though.
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It's like I had to put myself in a position where I had to figure out how to make money off my talent.
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See, that's another thing, man.
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Having options could could be a hindrance.
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And uh I had to literally put myself in a position where all I had was my talent and my hustle.
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So I'm gonna put these things together and figure it out.
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But I had to block everything else out.
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Because when you got hustle, you know, you're subject to a lot of different things.
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So I really had to zone in and really, really, really block everything out and put all of my energy into music and walk away from everything else and look at this like this is all I have.
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I had to be real with myself because it's like a lot of artists not real with themselves.
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They feel as though they have other things because they might have a hustle, they might have a line on some income.
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You know, they might have a- But they don't really love it as much as we love it.
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That part too.
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Right.
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Yeah.
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Right.
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And they probably don't love it as much as they love it.
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But even loving it could get discouraging without seeing no results because I've been there.
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Yeah.
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And I love it.
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And like I said, I've stopped before.
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But I stop because I have other options.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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When you got other options, they make it easier to stop something.
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I want to add on to that with two points.
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One, we sell books.
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I used to work at a bookstore, a bookstore called Inkiru Books, and I still sell books online.
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And this summer we're gonna do some pop-ups.
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And we just had a meeting at the crib about the right way to do the pop-ups.
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And we've done pop-ups before where we take all the books.
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I got all the books at the crib, right?
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I saw the books online, qualityclub.com, go check it out.
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Um we take all the books out and put them out at the event.
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And we don't sell no books because it's too many options.
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People get overwhelmed at the event.
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But if I pick five or six books and showcase and make it more exclusive experience, then we move more of those books.
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So that speaks to the to your point.
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Right.
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And that's just a lesson in hustling, right?
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Right?
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And I you talk about hustling a lot, but also gotta also big you up and thank you because it's something I heard you say that alludes to this point.
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I heard you say it on Bagfuel, and shout out to the Bagfuel dudes, where you talked about how you don't network and how you don't go out and how you don't go to the events, that all of your accolades and everything you've got is from putting that time into the studio.
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And I'm someone who has put a lot of time into the studio, but I'm also someone who, because I had a chip on my shoulder about being called a conscious artist, I did all the South by Southwest, all the AC3s, all the how can I be down.
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Y'all know me if you in the city, you see me at every club, I got relationships with every rapper, I'm at every event.
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And I I slowed down on that about 10 years ago, but I spent a lot of time doing that.
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So when I see you say that on the podcast, I said, man, that's a very important lesson for new artists to come in.
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Like you think the first thing people tell you, well, first, you it's all about relationships.
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You need to network, you need to be seen, you need to be on social media, you need to create content.
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You know, this manager, this is a manager.
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And I don't mean to cut you off, but you know most of the people that are saying that is the people without talent.
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That's right, and they're the people who are exploiting us.
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Exactly.
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The people who are eating off of what we do.
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That's right.
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You feel me?
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That's right.
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Like, so you know, I I I this is how I look at it in the most simplest way.
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It was once upon a time I sold crack.
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And I couldn't market it.
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It still sold.
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It still sold.
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Yeah.
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That same mentality, I take that in everywhere I go.
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I didn't have to tell people I got the crack.
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The word got out.
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Right.
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Right.
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Crack sells itself.
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It definitely sells itself.
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So I make sure that I got good work.
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Right.
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As opposed to being seen with some work.
00:13:51.679 --> 00:13:52.960
I make sure I got the best work.
00:13:53.039 --> 00:13:53.759
It's gonna get out.
00:13:54.080 --> 00:13:54.240
Right.
00:13:54.559 --> 00:13:58.080
That mentality right there applies to everything.
00:13:58.559 --> 00:13:59.440
You know what I'm saying?
00:14:00.159 --> 00:14:02.960
And like, people don't understand, man.
00:14:03.039 --> 00:14:11.679
All of that street shit that you go through or that you experience, if you have a mind, is just something that preps you for business.
00:14:12.240 --> 00:14:12.960
Any business.
00:14:13.360 --> 00:14:14.000
You know what I'm saying?
00:14:14.159 --> 00:14:14.879
Yeah, for sure, bro.
00:14:15.039 --> 00:14:16.559
And that's just that mentality.
00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:17.279
For sure.
00:14:17.519 --> 00:14:18.879
I want to shout out your moms.
00:14:19.039 --> 00:14:20.799
You got this album, Mother and Gun.
00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:21.200
Facts.
00:14:21.519 --> 00:14:22.399
Very powerful album.
00:14:22.639 --> 00:14:26.320
And you say on the album, you say, My most reliable sources is my mother and my gun.
00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:26.799
Facts.
00:14:26.960 --> 00:14:33.200
And you really tell your story about how your mom's held you down, you got incarcerated for whatever it was you were doing in the streets.
00:14:33.279 --> 00:14:33.440
Yes.
00:14:33.759 --> 00:14:34.799
You break that down.
00:14:35.679 --> 00:14:36.480
Oh man.
00:14:36.799 --> 00:14:40.559
Like, I'm pretty sure a lot of street guys could relate to this, man.
00:14:40.639 --> 00:14:49.120
You know, we get in trouble, and you know, we really realize the value of our mother when we're in trouble.
00:14:49.279 --> 00:14:49.440
Yeah.
00:14:49.679 --> 00:14:53.600
Or when we sick, you got grown, you get grown, you get sick enough, you still like, let me call my mother.
00:14:53.679 --> 00:14:54.960
Like help me get through this.
00:14:55.120 --> 00:14:56.159
You know what I'm saying?
00:14:56.399 --> 00:15:00.399
And you really don't realize the value of that till you can't make those phone calls anymore.
00:15:00.879 --> 00:15:04.000
You, you know, a lot of us take that for granted.
00:15:04.480 --> 00:15:13.600
You know, and um, I had a lot of time to reflect after losing my mother about, you know, how much she impacted my movement, my thought process, and all of those things.
00:15:13.840 --> 00:15:29.440
And uh, you know, I'm just very thankful to be able to, you know, have somebody that was in my life for a period of time to help guide me through these different things and hold me down so I could really experience what love is.
00:15:29.840 --> 00:15:31.440
You know, unconditional love.
00:15:31.519 --> 00:15:31.679
Yes.
00:15:31.840 --> 00:15:35.679
You know, and usually in the community we come from, that comes from your mother.
00:15:36.080 --> 00:15:42.480
A lot of times, fathers, it's sad to say, but you know, in the community I came up in, you know, it ain't too many fathers really around.
00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:48.720
So your most reliable source becomes your mother, you know, until you have something else to be able to depend on.
00:15:48.799 --> 00:15:54.240
So the concept of mother and gun was like, this gun is something that I know I could depend on to protect me.
00:15:54.480 --> 00:16:01.039
Outside of my mother, it really ain't too much that I I could really depend on and have that much confidence in.
00:16:01.679 --> 00:16:06.159
And, you know, that was the whole concept of that project, you know what I mean?
00:16:06.399 --> 00:16:11.759
And, you know, it was kind of like a shrine for me showing appreciation and shit as well.
00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:14.639
Um, I want to ask you something, bro.
00:16:14.799 --> 00:16:23.039
Um, being an independent powerhouse, uh, I know for independent artists, it's about vision.
00:16:23.279 --> 00:16:24.720
Knowing where you're gonna go next.
00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:30.559
A lot of times when people watch Nipsey interviews, they would get blown away by the wisdom, but a lot of it was just vision.
00:16:30.799 --> 00:16:32.559
Him knowing where he was going next.
00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:38.240
Uh you got a hell of a fan base right now, and you collecting a lot of power.
00:16:38.559 --> 00:16:42.000
Uh what's your overall vision for 38 Special?
00:16:44.159 --> 00:16:51.440
Honestly, bro, you know, after I I just wanna be comfortable, highest level of comfortability, right?
00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:54.720
Whatever that may look like, and be able to teach.
00:16:55.200 --> 00:16:56.159
You know what I'm saying?
00:16:56.399 --> 00:17:05.920
Like, I want to be able to teach my people, you know, how to, you know, uh make it out of their situation, to want more out of their situation.
00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:06.960
You know what I'm saying?
00:17:07.599 --> 00:17:14.079
And uh, you know, that's the end goal to be have a highest level of comfortability and to be able to teach my people.
00:17:14.319 --> 00:17:14.799
You know?
00:17:14.960 --> 00:17:16.319
That's really all I'm trying to do.
00:17:16.480 --> 00:17:19.279
That's why these albums with Planet Asia are so important, I feel like.
00:17:19.599 --> 00:17:24.079
Shout out to Planet Asia, shout out to Planet Asia, unlikely parent for me, you and Asia.
00:17:24.319 --> 00:17:26.480
It makes sense to me though, because we don't know each other that well.
00:17:26.559 --> 00:17:26.640
Right.
00:17:27.119 --> 00:17:29.039
I know you as I'm I'm a fan of your music.
00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:32.319
But Asia is one of my best friends in this business.
00:17:32.559 --> 00:17:33.440
And that's like my twin.
00:17:33.519 --> 00:17:35.279
Like, you know, down south they say twin all the time.
00:17:35.680 --> 00:17:36.559
That's like my real twin.
00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:36.799
Right.
00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:37.519
You know what I'm saying?
00:17:37.599 --> 00:17:39.839
And um, he's been talking about you for years.
00:17:40.240 --> 00:17:42.799
Like my introduction to you musically come through Planet Asia.
00:17:42.880 --> 00:17:42.960
Right.
00:17:43.119 --> 00:17:47.519
And Planet Asia been early when it comes to whatever sound is next in hip hop.
00:17:47.680 --> 00:17:48.480
He really is, though.
00:17:48.640 --> 00:17:48.799
Yeah.
00:17:49.039 --> 00:17:50.160
He's he's good on that.
00:17:50.319 --> 00:17:50.960
Yeah, he is.
00:17:51.599 --> 00:17:56.000
And um, y'all got the trusted chain, because he got the gold chain and you got the trust.
00:17:56.079 --> 00:17:56.880
Y'all got these albums.
00:17:56.960 --> 00:17:58.720
You told me you're working on a new one.
00:17:58.799 --> 00:17:58.960
Yeah.
00:17:59.200 --> 00:18:03.279
But the last one, like the songs in there, man, mystery school, that's like my favorite type of hip-hop.
00:18:03.599 --> 00:18:04.559
Yo, that's my shit, too.
00:18:04.720 --> 00:18:05.119
That's the show.
00:18:05.359 --> 00:18:05.759
That's my shit.
00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:06.480
You know what I'm saying?
00:18:06.559 --> 00:18:08.960
And like, there's a record God degree.
00:18:09.839 --> 00:18:11.839
This record is powerful as necessary.
00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:13.200
When you talk about teach, right?
00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:15.680
Immediately I think about this God degree record.
00:18:15.759 --> 00:18:16.000
Right.
00:18:16.160 --> 00:18:27.039
And, you know, you come from a hustling background, you talk about that in your music, but the way that you answer that question, I hear this in the music, like, this need to teach and to show like the pitfalls and the perils of things.
00:18:27.599 --> 00:18:45.279
Um and you know, not enough people are are tapped into how street dudes are really coming with consciousness because they think of conscious as cornier condescending or they think of conscious as like positive and uplifting.
00:18:45.359 --> 00:18:49.599
And conscious doesn't, it's not synonymous with positive and uplifting.
00:18:49.759 --> 00:18:50.000
Right.
00:18:50.240 --> 00:18:52.319
Consciousness is just being aware.
00:18:52.559 --> 00:18:52.960
Exactly.
00:18:53.200 --> 00:18:53.759
You know what I'm saying?
00:18:53.839 --> 00:18:54.960
And I hear that in your music.
00:18:55.200 --> 00:19:01.519
Yeah, it's crazy because growing up in the 90s, right, and where I'm from, the street dudes was conscious.
00:19:01.599 --> 00:19:01.839
Yeah.
00:19:02.000 --> 00:19:04.160
Like it was a heavy 5% nation.
00:19:04.480 --> 00:19:08.799
And, you know, they, you know, the older guys, you walk out the house, it's like, what's today's mathematics?
00:19:09.119 --> 00:19:10.480
It made you want to study something.
00:19:10.559 --> 00:19:11.279
You know what I'm saying?
00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:13.039
Back then, it was cool to be smart.
00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:14.240
It was cool to have lessons.
00:19:14.319 --> 00:19:17.680
Even though you was a gangster, it was cool to have knowledge itself.
00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:20.559
You know, and that was the way I was raised.
00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:23.359
You know, and I feel like that's something that's lost.
00:19:23.519 --> 00:19:24.240
You know what I mean?
00:19:24.400 --> 00:19:26.079
It ain't cool to be sharp no more.
00:19:26.240 --> 00:19:26.400
Yeah.
00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:27.599
You know what I'm saying?
00:19:27.759 --> 00:19:29.440
But that's why I keep that in the music.
00:19:29.519 --> 00:19:30.799
Because I actually come from that.
00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:31.039
Yeah.
00:19:31.279 --> 00:19:32.160
You know what I mean?
00:19:32.799 --> 00:19:33.599
Facts.
00:19:33.839 --> 00:19:36.799
Um Kwali brought up a good point.
00:19:37.039 --> 00:19:39.519
I have been hearing about you for a very long time.
00:19:40.079 --> 00:19:46.400
And when you explain kind of like the trajectory of going away for a little bit, coming back.
00:19:47.119 --> 00:19:57.039
Um, when you did go away, because I think a lot of artists need to hear this, because people go through that stuff where they feel like, damn, I got a buzz, but do I really want to step on it and push it?
00:19:57.119 --> 00:20:01.440
You know, do I really want to put that elbow grease into turning myself into a real rapper?
00:20:01.680 --> 00:20:04.559
Um, when you went away, what was going through your consciousness?
00:20:04.720 --> 00:20:10.400
Like, did you still see yourself as like the 38th special that would be sitting here doing these interviews?
00:20:10.640 --> 00:20:14.640
I never ever, ever doubted that I would be here doing these interviews.
00:20:14.720 --> 00:20:17.359
Not one bit, no matter what I went through, and I went through hell.
00:20:17.680 --> 00:20:19.920
So even when you took a break in your mind, that was a break.
00:20:20.640 --> 00:20:21.279
It was coming back.
00:20:21.599 --> 00:20:26.720
I always knew, even like when I went to jail, it was 2009.
00:20:27.200 --> 00:20:29.680
Probably didn't come home till probably like 2011.
00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:34.240
And the transformation from music changed into a complete 360.
00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:43.039
It went from New York having somewhat of a stance in it, right, to not, no one cared about it.
00:20:43.279 --> 00:20:45.279
Did that affect you going to Atlanta?
00:20:45.519 --> 00:20:46.960
It affects me completely.
00:20:47.920 --> 00:20:50.400
I actually moved to Atlanta because I thought that's where hip hop was living.
00:20:50.799 --> 00:20:51.920
Hip hop, I say that all the time.
00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:52.640
I say hip-hop.
00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:54.799
Hip hop has been in Atlanta for a long time, bro.
00:20:55.039 --> 00:20:59.440
So I went down there not knowing that that wasn't the place for me.
00:20:59.839 --> 00:21:05.680
Even though hip-hop is living there, I had to go back to where the fuck I'm from and wait till hip hop come back around this way.
00:21:05.920 --> 00:21:06.720
You know what I'm saying?
00:21:06.880 --> 00:21:07.119
Yeah.
00:21:07.359 --> 00:21:08.880
You know what's crazy about you saying that?
00:21:08.960 --> 00:21:12.079
I think about the trajectory of two chains a lot.
00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:13.920
He's such a great artist.
00:21:14.079 --> 00:21:18.559
And he's been to so many, from Titty Boy to now, there's been so many different iterations.
00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:22.640
Whatever he, whatever he tried, the bars was always there.
00:21:22.960 --> 00:21:23.119
Always.
00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:29.519
Even if the songs didn't connect or the group thing, player circle didn't quite connect, the bars was always there.
00:21:29.920 --> 00:21:42.480
And now, in this era, as he's older and his focus has shifted, he put out a lot of trap classics and a lot of a down south classic, and really is one of the foundational people who define that sound.
00:21:42.640 --> 00:21:44.319
But I think he's still like one of us.
00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:45.759
We still want you to hear the bars.
00:21:45.920 --> 00:21:52.160
So you hear him with Static Select or you hear him with Griselda and this new era of two chains, or you hear him on an alchemist beat.
00:21:52.720 --> 00:21:53.599
It's it's wild.
00:21:53.680 --> 00:21:57.440
So it's like when when I hear you talk about I went to Atlanta, it didn't work.
00:21:57.599 --> 00:21:59.680
If you stick to your guns, they're gonna have to come.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:02.319
Back around to what it is that we're doing at some point.
00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:02.880
Agreed.
00:22:03.039 --> 00:22:03.279
Yeah.
00:22:03.440 --> 00:22:03.839
Agreed.
00:22:03.920 --> 00:22:06.000
That's really what it's about, sticking to your guns.
00:22:06.160 --> 00:22:07.440
It could get discouraging.
00:22:07.519 --> 00:22:08.880
I, you know, I say this a lot.
00:22:08.960 --> 00:22:12.000
Like, you might have to make music that's not cool.
00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:16.400
You might have to accept the fact that you're gonna ride around with your lady and she's not listening.
00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:24.000
Yeah, that's that's in my in my world, that's a red flag, bro.
00:22:24.160 --> 00:22:25.759
Like, you gotta be a fan of me, bro.
00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:27.920
You gotta be my fan.
00:22:28.160 --> 00:22:28.720
I like that too.
00:22:28.960 --> 00:22:29.599
No, real shit.
00:22:30.319 --> 00:22:30.960
I feel the same way.
00:22:31.519 --> 00:22:33.359
He's been Talib for a long time.
00:22:33.599 --> 00:22:34.240
You feel me?
00:22:34.319 --> 00:22:37.519
Everybody ain't Talib Kwali, you know, and they took all the music and the weight.
00:22:37.839 --> 00:22:39.920
They gotta be with you when you were shooting in the gym, bro.
00:22:40.079 --> 00:22:42.079
So, you know, that's hard for artists to accept.
00:22:42.160 --> 00:22:45.279
Like, damn, I'm gonna go to the club tonight, they're gonna spend everybody's shit but mine.
00:22:46.240 --> 00:22:47.359
There's no space for this.
00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:50.960
It's like I got, or I might like ride with this girl, she's not gonna listen to me.
00:22:51.279 --> 00:22:54.400
So, what artists do, they be like, damn, I wanna get in that space.
00:22:54.640 --> 00:22:55.279
I've been there.
00:22:55.440 --> 00:22:56.640
I wanna get in that space.
00:22:56.799 --> 00:22:58.799
When it's like you got your own space, nigga.
00:22:59.279 --> 00:23:10.240
I also heard you say though, I don't remember, I don't remember where I heard you say this though, but you said that uh that that people be emailing you now that you emailed back in the day.
00:23:10.559 --> 00:23:10.799
Facts.
00:23:11.039 --> 00:23:12.160
That just happened to me so much, bro.
00:23:12.400 --> 00:23:12.720
Facts crazy.
00:23:14.799 --> 00:23:16.880
I didn't want to say no names with one person in particular.
00:23:17.039 --> 00:23:20.000
He keeps bugging me to post him on my gram and all of that.
00:23:20.160 --> 00:23:23.119
I don't want to say his name, but I reached out to him before I was who I am.
00:23:23.599 --> 00:23:24.559
He kind of played me.
00:23:24.720 --> 00:23:25.279
You know what I mean?
00:23:25.440 --> 00:23:26.559
Yeah, I experienced that a lot.
00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:32.720
I be seeing motherfuckers reach out, then I go further up and be like, damn, nigga, I nigga, I nigga, this seven years later, nigga.
00:23:32.960 --> 00:23:33.440
Real shit.
00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:34.559
Yo, that's how that shit be.
00:23:34.720 --> 00:23:36.079
Hey, you gotta be beautiful, though.
00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:36.480
You gotta look at it.
00:23:37.119 --> 00:23:37.599
It's the grind.
00:23:37.680 --> 00:23:38.319
Yeah, it's beautiful.
00:23:38.480 --> 00:23:39.680
And I understand it now too.
00:23:39.759 --> 00:23:40.720
You gotta prove yourself.
00:23:40.880 --> 00:23:42.640
Yeah, can't be in nobody's inbox.
00:23:42.720 --> 00:23:44.880
That's why, you know, like, yo, check my shit, homie.
00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:46.480
That's another thing for rappers, right?
00:23:46.559 --> 00:23:48.480
Y'all gotta stop trying to be fans of rappers.
00:23:48.559 --> 00:23:48.720
Yeah.
00:23:49.039 --> 00:23:50.640
Rapper don't do nothing for you.
00:23:50.720 --> 00:23:51.200
Oh god.
00:23:51.359 --> 00:23:53.759
So all of that, trying to send shit to rappers, yo, check me out.
00:23:53.839 --> 00:23:54.480
Yo, check me out.
00:23:54.559 --> 00:23:55.599
Get a fan, nigga.
00:23:55.839 --> 00:23:56.000
Right.
00:23:56.319 --> 00:23:57.920
Worry about the fans, not the rappers.
00:23:58.160 --> 00:23:59.759
You don't rappers don't give a fuck.
00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:01.519
They're gonna look at you, they not.
00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:02.960
That's not the nigga you want.
00:24:03.119 --> 00:24:07.440
And then sometimes you get a tape to a rapper, they're gonna take them bars and flip them.
00:24:07.680 --> 00:24:10.480
Yeah, they give a fuck once you once you in position.
00:24:10.720 --> 00:24:11.440
You know what I'm saying?
00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:14.160
Yeah and when you in position, you ain't gotta do all that.
00:24:14.480 --> 00:24:16.880
But you know, worry about the fans, man.
00:24:16.960 --> 00:24:19.119
Don't worry about if the rappers is fans of you.
00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:19.759
You know what I'm saying?
00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:20.559
That's good advice.
00:24:20.799 --> 00:24:21.200
Facts.
00:24:21.440 --> 00:24:24.079
For you, what comes first, the beats or the rhymes?
00:24:27.039 --> 00:24:28.880
To me, the rhymes are more important.
00:24:31.680 --> 00:24:36.319
Um the beats are easier.
00:24:36.640 --> 00:24:38.079
Well, what did you start first?
00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:39.119
Started rapping first.
00:24:39.440 --> 00:24:39.920
Started rapping.
00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:47.440
So a lot of rappers, and Kanye says this, and other people say this, they started making beats because they couldn't find the sound that they were looking for.
00:24:47.759 --> 00:24:50.079
Basically, I I started making beats.
00:24:51.359 --> 00:24:53.039
I just was a music head, man.
00:24:53.119 --> 00:24:58.000
I was actually a young kid on house arrest, couldn't leave the house and had a keyboard in there.
00:24:58.559 --> 00:25:00.079
So I just started fucking with it.
00:25:00.559 --> 00:25:05.359
One of my homeboys, shout out to skateboard Kenny, had taught me something.
00:25:05.759 --> 00:25:07.440
He made a beat, and I said, How the hell you did that?
00:25:07.519 --> 00:25:08.079
We the same age.
00:25:08.160 --> 00:25:09.599
I'm like, how the hell you did that?
00:25:09.839 --> 00:25:17.119
And he told me some shit, like, man, you know, man, make a sound, play some keys, go to the next sound, play them same keys in a different order.
00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:18.960
The cheat code right there.
00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:20.319
Cheat code right there for producers.
00:25:21.440 --> 00:25:23.680
For producers right there.
00:25:24.319 --> 00:25:25.839
And I stuck with that, man.
00:25:25.920 --> 00:25:33.359
And I, you know, like I said, I was like 14, and by the time I was 16, Green Lantern was impressed by a beat that I made.
00:25:33.440 --> 00:25:35.759
It got in his hands and he just took me under his wing.
00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:36.960
Let's shout out Green Lantern.
00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:38.000
Shout out to DJ Green.
00:25:38.640 --> 00:25:39.440
Very early in my career.
00:25:39.599 --> 00:25:44.160
One of the first shows I ever did that put my name on a map was a show called Brooklyn, Vermont.
00:25:44.319 --> 00:25:48.000
I used to think Green Lantern was from Vermont, because I met him at that show.
00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:50.319
And it was Black Star and Eminem.
00:25:50.720 --> 00:25:50.960
Wow.
00:25:51.039 --> 00:25:51.200
Wow.
00:25:51.359 --> 00:25:52.240
And Green Lantern.
00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:52.720
Wow.
00:25:52.880 --> 00:25:59.599
And the show was significant because I knew M because he was doing rap Olympics and he was on the streets freestyling, battling everybody.
00:25:59.680 --> 00:26:04.160
And we were all familiar with him, but it was right around the time he got his deal.
00:26:04.400 --> 00:26:05.839
Black Star was already a thing.
00:26:06.079 --> 00:26:11.119
So I remember they came to us in the dressing room, they're like, yo, would you mind if Eminem goes on after y'all?
00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:12.799
Because it's, you know what I'm saying?
00:26:12.880 --> 00:26:17.920
Like his star is about to, and I remember us being like, yo, we'll go on before anybody, like whatever.
00:26:18.079 --> 00:26:20.240
But I remember that being a thing in my career.
00:26:20.319 --> 00:26:25.680
That's when I met Green Lantern, and that was a moment in my career where I realized, oh man, this white boy about to blow.
00:26:26.640 --> 00:26:29.039
White boy that leapfrogged over us at the show.
00:26:29.200 --> 00:26:29.759
You know what I'm saying?
00:26:29.839 --> 00:26:30.960
So shout out to Green Lantern.
00:26:31.119 --> 00:26:34.000
But he's also one of the most genuine people I know.
00:26:34.079 --> 00:26:34.799
I was just with him.
00:26:34.880 --> 00:26:35.839
He's in Arizona.
00:26:35.920 --> 00:26:38.799
I was just at a show out there with De La Soul, man.
00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:43.839
And it's always a pleasure to see him as someone who did he DJ for Eminem?
00:26:43.920 --> 00:26:44.160
He did it.
00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:44.480
Yeah, yeah.
00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:46.960
Nas and Eminem.
00:26:47.119 --> 00:26:48.000
Nas and Eminem.
00:26:48.079 --> 00:26:48.720
How you, man?
00:26:48.799 --> 00:26:48.960
Come on.
00:26:49.039 --> 00:26:50.319
He made the Champ is here beat.
00:26:50.400 --> 00:26:50.720
Yes, he's a man.
00:26:50.799 --> 00:26:51.279
You know what I'm saying?
00:26:51.359 --> 00:26:52.880
Like, he made all types of crazy beats.
00:26:53.039 --> 00:26:55.359
We working on, I got a new album I'm working on.
00:26:55.920 --> 00:26:58.079
Where I got, where he's, you know, he's in his jazz bag now.
00:26:58.160 --> 00:26:58.480
Yes, he is.
00:26:58.559 --> 00:27:00.960
So I got some of them beats on my new album.
00:27:01.119 --> 00:27:03.119
I'll play that for you off the off the camera.
00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:04.480
But like, man, shout out to Green Lantern.
00:27:04.960 --> 00:27:06.480
Shout out to Green Lantern, man.
00:27:06.720 --> 00:27:07.200
Facts.
00:27:07.440 --> 00:27:15.599
Man, who's um, who's a a MC that you haven't square danced with that you say one day, me and we're gonna have that conversation.
00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:17.279
Yeah, because he be coming for them sees.
00:27:17.440 --> 00:27:18.160
Yeah, yeah.
00:27:19.200 --> 00:27:20.400
He coming for him.
00:27:20.640 --> 00:27:25.119
Oh man, the next people I would like to work with is Nas and Jay-Z, man.
00:27:25.920 --> 00:27:27.839
I think that's that's obvious in your trajectory.
00:27:28.160 --> 00:27:28.559
Yeah, man.
00:27:28.720 --> 00:27:31.359
Them is be the guys that I would like to do music with.
00:27:31.519 --> 00:27:32.160
That's obvious.
00:27:32.400 --> 00:27:35.200
What you I come from that clause, you know?
00:27:35.519 --> 00:27:36.000
Facts.
00:27:36.160 --> 00:27:36.880
Yeah, man.
00:27:37.119 --> 00:27:39.119
Shout out to uh DJ Shea.
00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:41.200
Shout out to DJ Shea.
00:27:41.279 --> 00:27:41.759
R.I.P.
00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:43.440
the DJ, man.
00:27:43.599 --> 00:27:43.759
Yeah.
00:27:43.920 --> 00:27:45.279
The legend DJ Shea.
00:27:45.359 --> 00:27:46.160
A lot of people don't know.
00:27:46.240 --> 00:27:50.559
I I my first mixtape out on Bell was recorded in DJ Shea's studio.
00:27:50.799 --> 00:27:53.680
That's how I actually met Benny, driving out to Buffalo.
00:27:53.759 --> 00:27:59.839
You know, him and Green had a relationship, and well, DJ Shea and DJ Green had a relationship.
00:28:00.079 --> 00:28:06.640
So, you know, they were telling me to go out there and record with Shay, because Rochester Buffalo's an hour away.
00:28:06.799 --> 00:28:09.279
And that's how I actually, me and Benny end up gaining a relationship.
00:28:09.599 --> 00:28:11.839
But DJ Shea was like a coach to me as well.
00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:12.720
You know what I'm saying?
00:28:12.880 --> 00:28:14.079
I appreciate Shay a lot.
00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:18.799
He helped me a lot with just like my recording process, becoming a recording artist.
00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:22.960
I was always a raw rapper, but it's the difference between being a rapper and a recording artist.
00:28:23.119 --> 00:28:24.160
You know what I'm saying?
00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:24.960
For sure.
00:28:25.119 --> 00:28:27.039
And uh Shay helped me with that.
00:28:27.440 --> 00:28:28.720
Can you give, when you want to go?
00:28:28.880 --> 00:28:29.440
Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead.
00:28:29.680 --> 00:28:32.640
Can you give some of the lyricists out there that are writing songs?
00:28:33.039 --> 00:28:34.319
Because I be having the conversations.
00:28:34.400 --> 00:28:35.839
I'm an MC, I'm in the underground.
00:28:35.920 --> 00:28:37.119
So I talk to these people, right?
00:28:37.759 --> 00:28:39.680
Your name comes up a lot in Caspiat.
00:28:40.559 --> 00:28:42.640
As a person that makes people want to rap.
00:28:44.079 --> 00:28:57.200
Can you give folks, not too, I don't want you to give too many of the secrets away as far as putting the package together, but can you give folks an understanding of what it takes to be a great lyricist versus a good lyricist?
00:28:57.359 --> 00:28:59.839
Because there's a lot of good lyricists that think they're great.
00:29:00.160 --> 00:29:03.440
But when I listen to the rhymes, I don't hear the stuff that makes it great.
00:29:03.519 --> 00:29:06.880
I don't hear the, you know, sometimes people overrap, under rap.
00:29:06.960 --> 00:29:09.119
They don't know the different mechanics of songwriting.
00:29:09.440 --> 00:29:14.880
And just give them a little bit of advice that would lead them towards an understanding of greatness.
00:29:15.279 --> 00:29:16.960
First off, you gotta study greatness.
00:29:18.400 --> 00:29:30.480
I would suggest that y'all go and listen to the classic projects Nas, Hove, G-Rap, Big, Pac, X.
00:29:31.039 --> 00:29:32.559
So you could understand different levels.
00:29:32.640 --> 00:29:34.160
And I mention these names for different things.
00:29:34.240 --> 00:29:40.559
I say Nas for creativity, Ho for street motivation, Tupac and DMX for passion and pain.
00:29:40.720 --> 00:29:41.359
You know what I'm saying?
00:29:41.440 --> 00:29:46.079
Biggie for flow, like G-Rap for storytelling and multiple word schemes.
00:29:46.240 --> 00:29:52.079
See, it's a lot of different levels to this in order to become the complete package and be able to really impact.
00:29:52.240 --> 00:29:59.680
In order to be that great, you gotta really study the greats that did it and did it very impactful.
00:30:00.319 --> 00:30:02.559
And uh that would be my main advice.
00:30:02.720 --> 00:30:08.000
Like, there's really no formula to this that I could tell you that ain't already been set an example.
00:30:08.240 --> 00:30:14.079
And that shit is, you know, on whatever streaming platform you want to go to and get it.
00:30:14.319 --> 00:30:14.640
Right.
00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:16.559
And so easy, too.
00:30:16.640 --> 00:30:18.960
People complain about music.
00:30:19.119 --> 00:30:25.039
Like, I don't like anything I hear on the radio, or there's nothing out for me, or it's like, bro, like, music is in the air.
00:30:25.119 --> 00:30:27.759
You can shazam some shit and just get it out of the atmosphere.
00:30:27.839 --> 00:30:28.960
It's like no excuses.
00:30:29.200 --> 00:30:33.200
You could spend a whole year just listening to like Griselda type upstate music.
00:30:33.519 --> 00:30:36.480
You can spend a whole year just listening to Mad Lib and Alchemist.
00:30:36.640 --> 00:30:40.640
You could spend a whole year just listening to like that Detroit music you be talking about.
00:30:40.880 --> 00:30:40.960
Right.
00:30:41.200 --> 00:30:44.400
There's so many, but it's like we not conscious consumers.
00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:47.519
We want the industry to tell us what to listen to, a lot of us.
00:30:47.759 --> 00:30:49.279
And that's part of the issue, I think.
00:30:49.920 --> 00:31:04.000
Um but that's I think what made Griselda and Conway and Benny and West Side Gun and the extensions of what they do with when it could go guard to like Boldie James and Rome Streets and people get excited about that.
00:31:04.079 --> 00:31:08.960
I seen Rome Streets on an interview recently where he was talking about, man, I thought at some point it was over.
00:31:09.119 --> 00:31:17.119
I thought at some point it was just gonna be all happy shit and pop shit and and drill rap and mumble rap and uh, you know, what about the stuff that I like?
00:31:17.359 --> 00:31:21.279
And I'm so happy that that stuff is still, you know, here.
00:31:21.759 --> 00:31:23.279
Courtesy of artists like y'all.
00:31:23.519 --> 00:31:24.480
For real, man.
00:31:24.799 --> 00:31:26.640
That shit was definitely dying.
00:31:26.880 --> 00:31:27.119
Yeah.
00:31:28.240 --> 00:31:28.960
Yeah, y'all.
00:31:29.039 --> 00:31:35.920
I hear the stories of I'm fascinated by a lot of the stories of you guys being regular people.
00:31:36.559 --> 00:31:37.359
You know what I'm saying?
00:31:37.440 --> 00:31:42.079
Because so many people get to where y'all got, but they don't talk about them being regular cats.
00:31:42.319 --> 00:31:42.880
You know what I'm saying?
00:31:43.039 --> 00:31:49.680
I've heard stories of Benny talking about how he and the stories he telling, I know they're real because they sound real.
00:31:49.759 --> 00:31:54.559
But stories about how he would leave upstate, get in the car, drive somewhere just to shake somebody's hand.
00:31:54.640 --> 00:31:54.720
Right?
00:31:55.839 --> 00:31:59.680
Um and you know that's how I I leave, go across the country.
00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:03.440
Just to let you know, you said I was on the phone with you, you said we might get the interview.
00:32:03.519 --> 00:32:04.079
He lives in St.
00:32:04.160 --> 00:32:04.400
Louis.
00:32:04.480 --> 00:32:05.359
He was like, I'll be there.
00:32:05.519 --> 00:32:05.920
Oh, wow.
00:32:06.079 --> 00:32:06.960
He just got off the plane.
00:32:07.039 --> 00:32:08.240
We ain't fresh from the airport.
00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:11.279
World up.
00:32:11.519 --> 00:32:12.799
I mean, we gotta do what we gotta do.
00:32:12.880 --> 00:32:13.440
You know what I mean?
00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:17.920
Um, I feel like y'all's movement is the cornerstone of that.
00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:21.680
You know, y'all put it out there like this is a do what we gotta do movement.
00:32:21.759 --> 00:32:21.920
Right.
00:32:22.240 --> 00:32:25.279
Um but when you were living, I'm just so fascinated.
00:32:25.359 --> 00:32:27.839
When you were living that life, regular life, right?
00:32:28.240 --> 00:32:35.680
And you're like, when y'all having conversations amongst each other, like, nigga, one day I'm gonna have the woo-woo woo, you gonna do the doo doo-doo, like, hell nah.
00:32:37.119 --> 00:32:38.079
Hell nah.
00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:44.640
That's a good question because it started just with passion.
00:32:46.480 --> 00:32:48.559
We just wanted to make the best shit.
00:32:49.119 --> 00:32:53.039
We was actually doing it for a while and ain't know how to make no money off of it.
00:32:53.680 --> 00:32:56.720
They ain't give a fuck about making no money.
00:32:57.519 --> 00:33:07.440
Um, I think deep down inside we all knew that one day, you know, motherfuckers is gonna understand who we are.
00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:09.039
You know what I'm saying?
00:33:09.119 --> 00:33:12.400
I think that every single one of us had that mindset.
00:33:12.880 --> 00:33:22.640
I know I did, you know, but I never it was never a conversation like, you know, one day, you know what I'm saying, we gonna be performing over here, performing over there.
00:33:23.039 --> 00:33:24.319
It was never a conversation.
00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:27.519
It was just like, yo, let's get to work.
00:33:27.680 --> 00:33:28.000
Yeah.
00:33:28.240 --> 00:33:29.680
And I think that's how it happens.
00:33:29.839 --> 00:33:33.680
I think when people have those conversations, they talk their way out of it happening.
00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:35.759
People place the obstacle before the idea.
00:33:35.920 --> 00:33:36.160
Exactly.
00:33:36.319 --> 00:33:41.440
They come with the idea and they think, oh, it ain't gonna work because of this and that and this and that, and then they start focusing on what's not gonna work.
00:33:41.759 --> 00:33:41.839
Right.
00:33:42.079 --> 00:33:43.279
That's a backwards way to think.
00:33:43.519 --> 00:33:43.839
Right.
00:33:44.160 --> 00:33:44.480
Yeah.
00:33:45.200 --> 00:33:52.799
Um this song that you got with Benny, y'all, you and Benny got this magical connection um to weapons.
00:33:53.759 --> 00:33:54.960
Do you know your verse from that?
00:33:55.200 --> 00:33:55.759
Yes, I do.
00:33:56.160 --> 00:33:57.599
Would you mind spitting that verse?
00:33:57.839 --> 00:33:58.559
Oh, man.
00:33:58.720 --> 00:34:00.640
Because that's one of my favorite verses by you.
00:34:00.799 --> 00:34:01.519
Damn.
00:34:04.480 --> 00:34:07.200
I used to grind and pay my mom a mortgage.
00:34:10.400 --> 00:34:11.599
I don't remember that verse.
00:34:11.760 --> 00:34:12.239
It's all good.
00:34:12.320 --> 00:34:12.800
It's okay.
00:34:13.039 --> 00:34:14.320
That's why I had to ask first.
00:34:14.639 --> 00:34:16.880
Because you know, because we got a lot of verses.
00:34:17.119 --> 00:34:18.320
And if you don't perform it every night.
00:34:20.079 --> 00:34:21.599
I would have had to step in the corner, listen to it.
00:34:21.679 --> 00:34:24.960
If I listened to it a couple times, probably even once, I would have known it.
00:34:25.119 --> 00:34:29.760
Quest love said that Black Thought can keep 20, 25 songs in his head at a clip.
00:34:29.920 --> 00:34:30.159
Right.
00:34:30.320 --> 00:34:31.679
Depends on what they perform in that.
00:34:32.159 --> 00:34:34.320
You wanna know what's crazy though about that song?
00:34:34.480 --> 00:34:38.719
That's one of the songs I gotta throw into my performance set because they always ask for that.
00:34:38.800 --> 00:34:40.320
But I never I performed that one time.
00:34:40.480 --> 00:34:40.880
That's a good one.
00:34:41.119 --> 00:34:42.159
And they went crazy.
00:34:42.400 --> 00:34:44.079
I gotta throw that on my performance set.
00:34:44.239 --> 00:34:44.719
That's a good one.
00:34:44.880 --> 00:34:45.199
Facts.
00:34:45.360 --> 00:34:45.519
Yeah.
00:34:45.679 --> 00:34:46.800
And that's a couple years ago.
00:34:46.880 --> 00:34:47.679
Like, how long?
00:34:47.760 --> 00:34:48.559
When did when did that come out?
00:34:48.719 --> 00:34:50.800
And that was a while ago, like 2018.
00:34:50.880 --> 00:34:52.239
That was like eight years ago.
00:34:52.400 --> 00:34:54.159
Yeah, the hometown hero.
00:34:54.559 --> 00:34:55.119
It's crazy.
00:34:55.679 --> 00:34:56.000
Thanks, bro.
00:34:56.239 --> 00:34:58.559
The bust of rhymes, the Jesus Arms is crazy.
00:34:58.639 --> 00:35:01.360
Like so many, so many great, great verses.
00:35:01.599 --> 00:35:04.719
Um coke runs with ransom.
00:35:04.960 --> 00:35:05.360
Whoa.
00:35:06.079 --> 00:35:10.159
Mickey Fax was on here and said that Ransom was the best.
00:35:10.480 --> 00:35:11.920
That was his number one.
00:35:12.159 --> 00:35:14.320
Um I hear you talk about ransom only.
00:35:14.480 --> 00:35:17.280
Me and Ransom got a joint called Minority Report.
00:35:17.360 --> 00:35:18.400
That's crazy, man.
00:35:18.639 --> 00:35:21.760
Like, let's talk about how ill Ransom is for a second.
00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:22.719
He's amazing.
00:35:22.800 --> 00:35:23.039
Yeah.
00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:27.519
Like, yeah, Ransom is like high-level lyrical assassin.
00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:33.920
You know, I look at him like, you know, like somebody I know I could call that's gonna get the job done.
00:35:34.000 --> 00:35:35.280
I never gotta even question.
00:35:35.679 --> 00:35:40.079
It's like, okay, I need somebody that I know is gonna really, really rap.
00:35:40.320 --> 00:35:41.519
This is for ransom.
00:35:42.079 --> 00:35:43.599
Like, you know what I'm saying?
00:35:43.760 --> 00:35:46.000
Like, he ain't nobody to play with.
00:35:46.239 --> 00:35:48.320
And he is coming with that shit.
00:35:48.400 --> 00:35:48.559
Yeah.
00:35:48.800 --> 00:35:49.519
You know what I'm saying?
00:35:49.599 --> 00:35:51.840
So yeah, ransom, one of the best ever.
00:35:52.079 --> 00:35:52.239
Yeah.
00:35:52.480 --> 00:35:54.719
You know, pinwise, and us as rappers, we know it.
00:35:54.800 --> 00:35:56.000
That's the thing about it.
00:35:56.239 --> 00:36:03.599
The actual consumer, they might be a little late, but us with pen work, we know how to measure talent.
00:36:04.079 --> 00:36:04.719
You know what I mean?
00:36:04.880 --> 00:36:10.159
So it's like, you know, we got certain rappers, that's what they call certain rappers, a rapper's rapper.
00:36:10.480 --> 00:36:11.119
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:36:11.360 --> 00:36:11.760
That's right.
00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:12.480
You know what I mean?
00:36:12.639 --> 00:36:15.039
Because a rapper knows that he's that guy.
00:36:15.280 --> 00:36:19.280
And Ransom would be one of them guys that, like, yeah, all the rap the rappers know.
00:36:19.440 --> 00:36:20.079
Rappers know, yeah.
00:36:20.320 --> 00:36:20.960
Rappers know.
00:36:21.039 --> 00:36:24.400
You know, just in case y'all confused on why the rappers be saying it.
00:36:24.639 --> 00:36:25.360
You know what I mean?
00:36:25.440 --> 00:36:27.280
I want you to know there's some rapper shit.
00:36:27.360 --> 00:36:29.679
We know how hard it is to come up with this shit.
00:36:29.840 --> 00:36:31.599
That's why the rappers know I'm that guy.
00:36:31.760 --> 00:36:32.480
You heard me?
00:36:32.800 --> 00:36:33.280
They know.
00:36:33.440 --> 00:36:34.400
Because they know how to do it.
00:36:34.559 --> 00:36:35.760
And if they don't know, you gonna tell them.
00:36:35.920 --> 00:36:36.559
I'm gonna definitely.
00:36:36.960 --> 00:36:37.519
You gonna tell them.
00:36:37.679 --> 00:36:38.880
Yeah, I gotta tell them.
00:36:39.119 --> 00:36:39.280
Yeah.
00:36:39.440 --> 00:36:45.760
I want to get more into that, but before we do that, I want to pivot to like cooking show segment.
00:36:45.920 --> 00:36:47.519
We're gonna start like a cooker show.
00:36:47.760 --> 00:36:50.880
You really got the recipe for gumbo out of hot Cheetos?
00:36:51.199 --> 00:36:51.920
Definitely, bro.
00:36:52.079 --> 00:36:52.719
Okay, break that down.
00:36:52.800 --> 00:36:56.559
Because you said in your bars that when you was locked up, y'all was making gumbo out of hot Cheetos.
00:36:56.960 --> 00:36:57.519
Definitely, man.
00:36:57.599 --> 00:37:05.599
All my people in the county know, man, what we do with a plastic bag and some soups and some bags of chips and hot pickles and all of this type of stuff.
00:37:05.679 --> 00:37:10.079
We just throw in a bag and turn it into something marvelous, you know?
00:37:10.320 --> 00:37:11.360
Have you seen that movie?
00:37:11.519 --> 00:37:21.039
Um, uh, I forget the name of the movie, but it's a movie about how there's a Mexican dude who worked at Fritole Lay and he came up with the recipe for the Cheetos, for the hot Cheetos.
00:37:21.119 --> 00:37:21.360
Oh, wow.
00:37:21.519 --> 00:37:24.400
How it became the highest seller snack for Frito Lay?
00:37:24.639 --> 00:37:25.599
Wasn't it an accident?
00:37:25.840 --> 00:37:36.079
It was no, he was like, he was watching people who used to take the chips, the Mexican people in LA, and put the chili powder on the chips, and and his little girl liked it.
00:37:36.559 --> 00:37:38.800
And he he was like he was like a janitor or something.
00:37:38.880 --> 00:37:42.320
He wasn't even somebody who was supposed to even be making, coming up with ideas.
00:37:42.559 --> 00:37:46.960
And he gave them his this million-dollar idea and he leveled up and it became the highest selling stack.
00:37:47.119 --> 00:37:49.199
It's a story on Disney or Hulu or some shit.
00:37:49.360 --> 00:37:49.519
Wow.
00:37:50.000 --> 00:37:53.199
But shout out to Thurston Howard III, too, because he got a cookbook.
00:37:53.280 --> 00:37:54.239
He got a jail cookbook.
00:37:54.320 --> 00:37:54.800
Oh, were?
00:37:55.039 --> 00:37:57.440
Yeah, like the recipes that when he was locked up.
00:37:57.679 --> 00:37:58.159
Yeah, man.
00:37:58.239 --> 00:37:59.920
I could make one of those too, man.
00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:01.440
I might have to take that, man.
00:38:01.679 --> 00:38:01.760
Yeah.
00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:04.159
Tracy Morgan has a show called Lass OG.
00:38:04.239 --> 00:38:05.119
I was on that show.
00:38:05.199 --> 00:38:11.440
And that was like a plot with his character that he learned how to cook in jail, and then he came out and was doing the jail recipes in a restaurant.
00:38:11.599 --> 00:38:13.119
Oh, yeah, did he make the food truck?
00:38:13.599 --> 00:38:14.480
Yeah, he had the food truck.
00:38:15.679 --> 00:38:18.960
Method Man was with his was in the food truck with him.
00:38:19.039 --> 00:38:20.079
Yeah, Method Man killed that.
00:38:20.159 --> 00:38:20.400
Yeah, man.
00:38:20.559 --> 00:38:22.400
Method Man is be killing your records too, bro.
00:38:22.480 --> 00:38:23.760
Oh, he goes retarded every time.
00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:24.639
Yeah, man, every time.
00:38:25.360 --> 00:38:27.679
Method Man's on my new album with Large Professor.
00:38:27.840 --> 00:38:34.800
Would you agree that Method Man somehow, when he stopped cursing, just became a better MC?
00:38:34.960 --> 00:38:36.239
Yo, I just now noticed.
00:38:36.320 --> 00:38:37.360
I didn't notice he stopped cursing.
00:38:37.519 --> 00:38:38.480
He ain't cursing years.
00:38:38.639 --> 00:38:39.039
That's crazy.
00:38:39.199 --> 00:38:40.400
He influenced me to stop cursing.
00:38:40.480 --> 00:38:40.880
I ain't wrote.
00:38:41.119 --> 00:38:43.920
If you hear anything with cursing in it for me, it's old as heck.
00:38:44.000 --> 00:38:45.280
But I still be cursing.
00:38:45.440 --> 00:38:51.679
I just hardly need to get my point across sometime without saying that extra that extra curse word.
00:38:51.920 --> 00:38:53.920
Just, just, just, but I'm about to try that.
00:38:54.079 --> 00:38:54.800
I'm about to try it.
00:38:54.960 --> 00:38:56.480
I had to start challenging myself.
00:38:56.880 --> 00:39:04.320
You write so many raps after a while, and it's easy to just be like, da da da da da da, fuck this, da du da da.
00:39:04.639 --> 00:39:06.800
It keeps you going when you can throw that profanity in there.
00:39:06.960 --> 00:39:16.800
And I started feeling myself being like, yo, it's words and paraphrases and catchphrases that you ain't even getting to as a writer, because you read just throw three, four profanity words in there, you know what I mean?
00:39:16.880 --> 00:39:27.199
So but I've been noticing without the profanity, take me a little longer sometimes in terms of pushing through the third tier of thought.
00:39:27.360 --> 00:39:34.480
Because I'm I can't just access my, you know, regular move and dunk, and I gotta like try to hit them with a fade away type shit.
00:39:34.559 --> 00:39:35.119
You know what I mean?
00:39:35.199 --> 00:39:35.440
Yeah.
00:39:35.599 --> 00:39:36.400
It's different.
00:39:36.639 --> 00:39:45.679
You and Benny have showcased an amazing amount of solidarity through all the changes that people go through.
00:39:46.480 --> 00:39:58.639
Um, being that y'all have showcased this solidarity and coming from the Griselda movement, do you have any thoughts you want to share on some of the talk that's going on about what's happening with Griselda and these conversations with Jay-Z?
00:39:59.599 --> 00:40:01.440
I really don't know nothing about they business.
00:40:01.599 --> 00:40:02.239
That's not your bag.
00:40:02.400 --> 00:40:04.239
Yeah, I really don't know nothing about they business.
00:40:04.320 --> 00:40:05.119
Shout out to them, though.
00:40:05.199 --> 00:40:11.360
You know, I respect everything the boys did, you know what I'm saying, and doing, but I I really don't know they business.
00:40:11.840 --> 00:40:18.480
I'm fascinated by it because of how this make them pay, this Drake beat, making everybody rap exactly how they feel.
00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:24.719
Whether you're a Drake fan or not, you gotta admit, this make them pay beat guy niggas in their feelings.
00:40:25.360 --> 00:40:28.159
People like, you know what, I'm gonna rap on it, and I'm gonna tell you how I feel.
00:40:28.400 --> 00:40:28.800
Yo.
00:40:29.679 --> 00:40:30.800
What is it about that feed?
00:40:30.960 --> 00:40:32.000
It's just Denise Williams.
00:40:32.159 --> 00:40:32.719
You know what I'm saying?
00:40:32.880 --> 00:40:34.960
Like, it's like, we heard this sample before.
00:40:35.199 --> 00:40:37.199
My man's called me when that album dropped.
00:40:37.360 --> 00:40:39.840
He said, the only good joint on there is make them pay.
00:40:40.239 --> 00:40:41.119
The night he said that.
00:40:41.199 --> 00:40:43.599
I said, well, that's gonna be the tracker everybody rapping on, yo.
00:40:44.239 --> 00:40:45.760
Yeah, man, people are.
00:40:46.480 --> 00:40:47.519
But I like it though.
00:40:47.599 --> 00:40:50.239
I like, I like the, I don't, I don't know the business.
00:40:50.320 --> 00:40:59.920
I don't know all this to talk about these private conversations and everything, but it just in terms of the art, I really like to hear somebody like Conway really share his feelings like that.
00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:01.679
I feel like the older we get, the more I want to hear.
00:41:01.840 --> 00:41:03.840
I want to hear how you how you really feel about some shit.
00:41:04.079 --> 00:41:04.239
Right.
00:41:04.480 --> 00:41:07.280
You know, I love when motherfuckers express themselves through music.
00:41:07.360 --> 00:41:07.920
You know what I mean?
00:41:08.239 --> 00:41:10.079
I also like the way that he rolled it out too.
00:41:10.159 --> 00:41:15.119
I like the way that it's like just just like vibing in the studio, you know what I'm saying?
00:41:15.280 --> 00:41:18.559
Let us letting us into like, you know, being more personable with it.
00:41:19.039 --> 00:41:22.639
Um have y'all heard, I meant to look this up before this interview.
00:41:22.880 --> 00:41:28.000
Um but DJ Clue was in an interview.
00:41:29.039 --> 00:41:32.320
And he I might need to look it up before I speak on it.
00:41:32.480 --> 00:41:36.960
But uh, if I'm paraphrasing, he was in an interview, and I think the same thing happened with DJ Self.
00:41:37.360 --> 00:41:40.480
DJ Clue and DJ Self, these are guys who have been on the radio for a long time.
00:41:40.559 --> 00:41:46.960
These guys are heavy in the clubs, these guys are put in a lot of work, but they're both guys who have are now essentially gatekeepers.
00:41:47.039 --> 00:41:48.559
They've been in the industry for a long time.
00:41:48.719 --> 00:41:54.719
And in both situations where they was asked about y'all's movement, I feel like the answer was not really informed.
00:41:55.039 --> 00:41:55.679
You know what I'm saying?
00:41:55.760 --> 00:42:09.280
The answer was like trying to like maintain their place on the radio and trying to maintain the uh what the the goal of having radio play is instead of like speaking from a place of representing the culture.
00:42:09.440 --> 00:42:13.760
And I feel like they would have back in the day, but they too baked into the system now.
00:42:15.280 --> 00:42:20.159
I I you know, I I wouldn't be surprised if they just was uninformed.
00:42:20.400 --> 00:42:20.559
Yeah.
00:42:20.800 --> 00:42:21.679
About what's going on.
00:42:22.000 --> 00:42:22.719
About what's going on.
00:42:23.119 --> 00:42:32.559
I honestly feel like they was they, you know, you gotta realize, man, like the stuff that I do, the last thing I'm thinking about is radio or club.
00:42:32.719 --> 00:42:33.039
Yeah.
00:42:33.679 --> 00:42:37.039
If it comes across your desk, then that, you know, that you the last person.
00:42:37.119 --> 00:42:40.159
If you're radio club DJ, I don't expect you to know who I am.
00:42:40.800 --> 00:42:44.159
Cypher Sound said on the show, he said the radio is not for us.
00:42:44.320 --> 00:42:44.480
Right.
00:42:44.639 --> 00:42:47.599
He said, My job on the radio is not to play the underground, whatever.
00:42:47.679 --> 00:42:51.360
Like, my job is to play what people who don't know about hip-hop want to hear.
00:42:51.519 --> 00:42:51.760
Right.
00:42:52.000 --> 00:42:56.000
So get that out of your head that I'm gonna come up there and like if we can slip it in, we'll slip it in.
00:42:56.079 --> 00:42:56.320
Right.
00:42:56.400 --> 00:43:01.599
You know, but um yeah, and cypher's someone who has championed my career.
00:43:01.760 --> 00:43:06.000
Uh there was an interview with Tyler the Creator and Funkmaster Flex.
00:43:06.239 --> 00:43:08.880
Tyler's album dropped the same time as DJ Khaled's album.
00:43:09.199 --> 00:43:16.159
And Tyler did an interview on Flex, and Flex was like, yo, I don't understand how you're so successful.
00:43:16.719 --> 00:43:19.199
And I don't, I'm not playing none of your records in the club.
00:43:19.360 --> 00:43:21.360
Like, nobody I know is talking about you.
00:43:21.519 --> 00:43:22.159
You know what I'm saying?
00:43:22.239 --> 00:43:26.239
How did you do better than DJ Khaled, who has all these hit records and all these relationships?
00:43:26.559 --> 00:43:31.760
And you know, Tyler was kind of like trolling him a little bit in that interview, I think.
00:43:31.920 --> 00:43:34.800
But I think that was a watershed moment in the industry.
00:43:34.880 --> 00:43:39.519
That was like almost like a physical, tangible breaking point.
00:43:39.599 --> 00:43:41.840
It's like them old rules don't apply no more.
00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:42.239
Right.
00:43:42.400 --> 00:43:43.119
You know what I'm saying?
00:43:43.280 --> 00:43:43.519
Right.
00:43:44.000 --> 00:43:45.199
It was ill to watch.
00:43:45.519 --> 00:43:49.599
Um, how much how important has niche marketing been for you?
00:43:49.840 --> 00:43:51.440
Like understanding the niche that you fulfill.
00:43:51.840 --> 00:43:52.559
That's the most important thing.
00:43:53.599 --> 00:43:54.400
You know, working it.
00:43:54.639 --> 00:43:56.079
It's been the most important thing.
00:43:56.400 --> 00:43:58.559
Before then, I used to just make music.
00:43:59.199 --> 00:43:59.840
I like all kinds.
00:44:00.719 --> 00:44:02.639
So if I like the beat, I rapped on it.
00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:05.039
Because I could.
00:44:06.159 --> 00:44:15.199
And I realized that it took me a while to realize, but that you have to have a lane and stay in your lane.
00:44:15.679 --> 00:44:17.119
Master your lane.
00:44:17.679 --> 00:44:19.199
Worry about everybody else.
00:44:19.760 --> 00:44:26.320
And I, you know, it's hard to come to that understanding when your lane might not be the popular lane at that point.
00:44:27.039 --> 00:44:33.280
But it don't matter, you gotta become good, great at it, you know, and you'll be able to do something.
00:44:34.079 --> 00:44:35.760
But that's the thing.
00:44:36.239 --> 00:44:36.719
Yeah.
00:44:37.519 --> 00:44:38.159
Yeah, man.
00:44:38.320 --> 00:44:40.400
We take this rap so seriously.
00:44:41.039 --> 00:44:50.400
Uh for black people, this music is not just art that you hang up on the wall and just appreciate its artistic value, it's survival for a lot of us.
00:44:50.800 --> 00:45:03.840
And so I feel like the conversation around you being competitive on songs with Jadicus and people like this is that to me is what's being lost in the conversation about how seriously we take it.
00:45:04.000 --> 00:45:08.639
But I'm of two minds when it comes to this conversation, because somebody like a J.
00:45:08.800 --> 00:45:15.760
Cole, people got very upset at him when he said, like, do I really walk around thinking I'm the best?
00:45:15.920 --> 00:45:19.119
No, like I put on a rap cape when it's time to do the rap bars.
00:45:19.519 --> 00:45:34.000
And as a 50-year-old man who's been doing this for a long time, and as someone who has been on many records with the greats, as someone who loved this, not only did I relate to what he said, I completely agree, because that's how I see.
00:45:34.960 --> 00:45:35.760
That's how I see it.
00:45:35.840 --> 00:45:38.960
But me and Tef, we we don't argue, but we was debating it.
00:45:39.039 --> 00:45:43.840
He was like, nah, nigga, like, if you said you the best, I'm gonna let you represent what you were saying.
00:45:44.000 --> 00:45:54.719
Yeah, I just feel like an outstanding is gonna be different on this one because you have actually been, at some point in your tenure as an MC, considered possibly the best in the world.
00:45:55.039 --> 00:45:55.920
You feel what I'm saying?
00:45:56.079 --> 00:46:00.400
So it's like if you climb to the mountaintop, of course you're gonna be like, nigga, it's just the mountaintop.
00:46:00.559 --> 00:46:00.639
Right.
00:46:00.960 --> 00:46:01.360
You're not right.
00:46:01.599 --> 00:46:02.000
It's just music.
00:46:02.079 --> 00:46:02.639
That's what we're talking about.
00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:06.079
Okay, who's, you know, the best is nothing to you.
00:46:06.159 --> 00:46:08.159
You have with Yasseen Bey for a living.
00:46:08.239 --> 00:46:08.320
Right.
00:46:08.480 --> 00:46:09.440
You feel what I'm saying?
00:46:09.679 --> 00:46:22.880
So somebody like when he said that for me, it was like disheartening in a sense because as fans, we put a lot on the line when cats go on these I'm the best campaigns.
00:46:23.199 --> 00:46:28.400
And if it's just a talking point, then let me know off the rip when you're making the records.
00:46:28.559 --> 00:46:32.239
It's just like, it's just like, for me, it's just like when people make gangster rap.
00:46:32.400 --> 00:46:35.599
Like if it's just rap, let me know.
00:46:35.760 --> 00:46:37.039
You feel what I'm saying?
00:46:37.280 --> 00:46:40.559
But even with the MC stuff, if it's just rap, let me know.
00:46:40.719 --> 00:46:48.639
Because now, for where I'm at in the saga, you do got brothers like this brother who deserve to be in the conversation for best in the world, right?
00:46:48.960 --> 00:46:52.639
Has put the work in, got the movement, got the statistics.
00:46:52.880 --> 00:46:58.079
Yet we got cats that's kind of in the lane being recognized as such, and they like, I don't even want it.
00:46:58.239 --> 00:46:59.119
You know what I mean?
00:46:59.280 --> 00:47:02.400
Like, well, for me, that's a problem in hip-hop then.
00:47:02.480 --> 00:47:07.039
It's it's because it's like we don't get the highest quality assurance, then.
00:47:07.119 --> 00:47:07.679
You know what I mean?
00:47:07.840 --> 00:47:26.000
Like, let the people who want to represent and push the boundaries of lyricism, and when I say that as an MC, I know that there's MCs out there that want the problems that come with pushing the boundaries of lyricism to be theirs as well, because they understand everything that comes with the whole ensemble of saying, hey, I'm going for that.
00:47:26.159 --> 00:47:27.679
I'm gonna break the fourth wall.
00:47:27.840 --> 00:47:32.559
I wanna be, I gotta shatter what y'all think the the rankings are for me to get in there.
00:47:32.719 --> 00:47:32.960
Yeah.
00:47:33.119 --> 00:47:34.320
That's a conquest.
00:47:34.400 --> 00:47:39.360
That's something you gotta really go through, changing the whole culture, the outline of how people think.
00:47:39.920 --> 00:47:42.559
And I just felt disheartened.
00:47:42.639 --> 00:47:48.559
I get disheartened when I see people who have the might of the music industry behind them.
00:47:48.719 --> 00:47:51.760
And they kind of like, yeah, I was just going to work, bruh.
00:47:51.920 --> 00:47:52.159
You know?
00:47:52.480 --> 00:47:56.079
It's like watching Khaled tweet through the next game.
00:47:58.320 --> 00:47:59.920
I mean, you might feel like that.
00:48:00.880 --> 00:48:03.440
I don't really care about sports, but people was upset about that shit.
00:48:03.519 --> 00:48:06.480
Like, you got all this, you paid all this money for these seats, and you're not gonna watch the game.
00:48:06.559 --> 00:48:19.119
But yeah, I mean, how you feel about like the the industry not, I ain't gonna even say the industry, I'm gonna say the people's look at the game, not putting the proper lyricist in the proper positions, the proper rankings.
00:48:19.280 --> 00:48:22.960
I know over the course of time that's been a huge controversial issue with people.
00:48:23.199 --> 00:48:35.840
Yeah, man, I realize that, like, you know, being at this, it's all like, you know, relative to that person, like who you feel, who's your top five, who's your favorite rapper, like what's what it's all subjective.
00:48:36.480 --> 00:48:38.159
It's like, what impacts you?
00:48:38.400 --> 00:48:39.760
You know, what talks to you?
00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:43.840
With me understanding that, I realize, like, nobody could be better than you.
00:48:44.480 --> 00:48:47.119
Everybody is the best at what they do.
00:48:47.360 --> 00:48:49.599
You could nobody could be better than you at what you do.
00:48:49.760 --> 00:48:50.159
That's right.
00:48:50.320 --> 00:48:53.599
That's what keeps me, my, my, my, my, my confidence so high.
00:48:53.679 --> 00:48:58.800
Like, say if I'm going in the studio and I'm with an extreme lyricist, I'm not worried about what he's gonna do.
00:48:59.760 --> 00:49:01.840
Because I know he can't do what I'm doing.
00:49:02.639 --> 00:49:04.159
I'm the best at being me.
00:49:04.320 --> 00:49:06.159
The people that love me love me for being me.
00:49:06.239 --> 00:49:07.920
There's nobody that could be better than that.
00:49:08.639 --> 00:49:12.079
That helps with my confidence level, and I think every artist should focus on that.
00:49:12.239 --> 00:49:16.320
Should just focus on what they bring to the table and know that they the best at that.
00:49:16.480 --> 00:49:16.719
Yeah.
00:49:16.880 --> 00:49:18.000
At being themselves.
00:49:18.159 --> 00:49:19.360
You know what I'm saying?
00:49:19.599 --> 00:49:22.159
Um that's just how I feel, man.
00:49:22.320 --> 00:49:22.800
You know?
00:49:23.119 --> 00:49:23.440
Yeah.
00:49:23.599 --> 00:49:27.199
With this Jadakus comment that has gone viral with you.
00:49:27.440 --> 00:49:34.559
Um you didn't say it was implied, I think, but you didn't mention his name.
00:49:34.639 --> 00:49:37.199
You said, I feel like I was the best verse on the record.
00:49:37.519 --> 00:49:38.639
I said I smoked the record.
00:49:38.800 --> 00:49:39.440
I smoked the record.
00:49:39.599 --> 00:49:40.639
And I had the best verse.
00:49:40.880 --> 00:49:42.559
I feel like that's different, this nuance.
00:49:42.639 --> 00:49:44.880
I feel like that's different than saying I smoke this individual.
00:49:45.119 --> 00:49:46.000
That's completely different.
00:49:46.159 --> 00:49:46.400
Yeah.
00:49:46.559 --> 00:49:48.159
I think that's getting lost in the conversation.
00:49:48.320 --> 00:49:50.480
I think that's definitely lost in the conversation, man.
00:49:50.559 --> 00:49:53.920
If we all on the cipher track and I'm like, yo, I got the best verse, then why?
00:49:54.159 --> 00:49:57.039
That's just how everyone should feel entering this situation.
00:49:57.280 --> 00:49:59.119
We should all strive to kill a record.
00:49:59.280 --> 00:49:59.440
Right.
00:49:59.599 --> 00:50:00.320
You know what I'm saying?
00:50:00.559 --> 00:50:05.760
Now, when it comes to the part about, can I I didn't, I didn't see what you said until today.
00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:07.440
I've just been seeing what the talk about it.
00:50:07.519 --> 00:50:11.280
But I was like, I'm gonna sit down with the dude, so I'm gonna I'm gonna watch what he actually said.
00:50:11.920 --> 00:50:14.800
And when you said, yo, he's ducking me.
00:50:15.119 --> 00:50:20.639
Come outside, that felt, to me, knowing that y'all know each other, that felt playful.
00:50:20.880 --> 00:50:21.360
Definitely.
00:50:21.599 --> 00:50:25.920
But people, I think, took it like you really like trying to like challenge his place in the game.
00:50:26.000 --> 00:50:26.239
Of course.
00:50:26.559 --> 00:50:28.639
Which is what that's why people Nah, of course not.
00:50:28.719 --> 00:50:29.679
You know, he's a legend.
00:50:29.920 --> 00:50:32.719
Yeah, you can't take nothing away from a legend, you know, it is what it is.
00:50:32.800 --> 00:50:38.480
And he inspired, you know, all of us that come from, you know, uh my my era and shit.
00:50:38.559 --> 00:50:40.719
So, like, you know, nah, it ain't that.
00:50:40.880 --> 00:50:42.079
You know, he know what it is.
00:50:42.159 --> 00:50:43.360
Yeah, it's playful.
00:50:43.440 --> 00:50:45.679
This is a competitive, friendly competitive study.
00:50:45.920 --> 00:50:48.559
And he, I saw the tweet he put, and he was playful.
00:50:48.639 --> 00:50:49.920
And he said, I'm gonna go in the studio.
00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:54.000
So if anything, if we get some hot Jada Kiss versus out of this, it'll be a win-win for the coach.
00:50:54.159 --> 00:50:54.639
Definitely.
00:50:54.800 --> 00:50:55.199
Absolutely.
00:50:55.679 --> 00:50:56.800
Man, Graf, shout out to Graph.
00:50:56.960 --> 00:50:57.920
I know you work with Graf a lot.
00:50:58.079 --> 00:50:59.360
Shout out to Graf, that's my bro.
00:50:59.840 --> 00:51:01.760
One of my favorite people out here in the business.
00:51:01.840 --> 00:51:05.440
I remember Graph, we did a record called Hip Hop for Respect, where I'm gonna do Diala with Shot.
00:51:05.920 --> 00:51:09.360
And 88 Keys brought a teenage Graph to the studio.
00:51:09.440 --> 00:51:09.679
Oh, okay.
00:51:09.840 --> 00:51:11.199
He was like, yo, he's next.
00:51:11.599 --> 00:51:12.800
And Graph is on that record.
00:51:13.039 --> 00:51:16.239
The record came out in 1997, 98, whatever I'm gonna do.
00:51:16.320 --> 00:51:17.760
But I walked to the store and bought that record.
00:51:18.000 --> 00:51:18.960
Graph is on that record.
00:51:19.039 --> 00:51:20.559
And um that's when I first met him.
00:51:20.639 --> 00:51:21.119
Oh, wow.
00:51:21.280 --> 00:51:23.599
And I'm on his a single of his from last year.
00:51:23.679 --> 00:51:24.159
That's great.
00:51:24.239 --> 00:51:24.480
Yeah.
00:51:24.880 --> 00:51:33.440
Um he tells a funny story that made me think of your situation when you said about like, yo, is he, is he with, like, are you not returning my phone calls?
00:51:33.519 --> 00:51:38.800
Like, he tells this funny story about uh getting mad at Buster Rhymes.
00:51:39.280 --> 00:51:40.239
You ever heard the story?
00:51:40.559 --> 00:51:41.280
He told me this.
00:51:41.440 --> 00:51:44.719
Yeah, I see that I've I've seen him tell it on different podcasts, right?
00:51:45.119 --> 00:51:48.800
But long story short, for people who don't know, he was mad because he had Buster's number.
00:51:48.960 --> 00:51:52.639
Buster said, and people for anybody who knows they're good friends right now to this day.
00:51:53.039 --> 00:51:58.800
Back then, he had Buster's number and he asked Buster to get on a song, and Buster was not returning his phone call.
00:51:58.880 --> 00:52:03.280
So he pulls up at the studio, and you know, Graf could be aggressive with, you know what I'm saying?
00:52:03.360 --> 00:52:07.760
He's calmed down a little bit, but he pulled up at a studio and he pressed Buster about the song.
00:52:07.840 --> 00:52:12.559
They got into altercation, they start pulling breaking bottles and taking outside, and it got crazy.
00:52:12.639 --> 00:52:12.800
Right.
00:52:13.039 --> 00:52:16.559
It's beautiful to see that they came together and that's over with.
00:52:16.880 --> 00:52:23.199
But I remember watching that thinking, sometimes niggas ain't gonna call you back.
00:52:25.679 --> 00:52:26.480
And that's what it is.
00:52:26.559 --> 00:52:33.920
Like, like, I got people in this business, I got people that I know that that love me, that I love them, but they cannot get me on the phone.
00:52:34.079 --> 00:52:34.239
Right.
00:52:34.400 --> 00:52:35.119
You know what I'm saying?
00:52:35.280 --> 00:52:40.960
And so I was that's that's when I was listening to you talk about that, I was like, that's what this is.
00:52:41.119 --> 00:52:46.639
It's like, I know, I know Jada Kiss ain't ducking this dude, but sometimes you just be like, you know what I'm saying?
00:52:46.800 --> 00:52:49.599
It's not it's not in your bandwidth right now.
00:52:49.760 --> 00:52:50.239
You know what I'm saying?
00:52:50.639 --> 00:52:55.199
I think it speaks to how much of a maniac you gotta really be to be on the internet talking about kiss.
00:52:55.519 --> 00:52:56.239
Come outside.
00:52:56.719 --> 00:52:58.000
It's Jada Kiss, nigga.
00:52:58.559 --> 00:52:59.440
Somebody to play with.
00:52:59.679 --> 00:53:00.639
Right, right, right.
00:53:00.719 --> 00:53:02.480
That lets you know you gotta be a maniac.
00:53:02.639 --> 00:53:04.159
You don't give a fuck.
00:53:07.199 --> 00:53:08.559
He said, but it's kiss.
00:53:09.760 --> 00:53:12.400
Man, um, this has been a great conversation, man.
00:53:12.559 --> 00:53:13.360
I appreciate you.
00:53:13.519 --> 00:53:16.320
I got a couple more questions before we let you get out of here.
00:53:16.480 --> 00:53:20.079
Um, Shay Noir has been on so many of your records.
00:53:20.239 --> 00:53:20.480
Yes.
00:53:20.719 --> 00:53:26.480
Um she's so powerful, um, so important to the culture, and I feel like people don't talk about her enough.
00:53:26.639 --> 00:53:32.639
Um, y'all got a lot of records, but I think my favorite record by y'all for many reasons is mental health.
00:53:32.880 --> 00:53:33.360
Appreciate it.
00:53:33.519 --> 00:53:36.239
And I wrote the hook down because I think the hook is very important.
00:53:36.400 --> 00:53:38.239
If you don't remember it, I'm gonna say it.
00:53:38.320 --> 00:53:38.480
Right.
00:53:38.639 --> 00:53:39.360
You know what I'm saying?
00:53:39.679 --> 00:53:44.400
But um, it's the uh, we say, uh, what's mental health to a street nigga?
00:53:44.480 --> 00:53:44.800
Mm-hmm.
00:53:44.960 --> 00:53:45.280
Right?
00:53:45.440 --> 00:53:47.360
When you're going through shit, who's gonna speak with you?
00:53:47.519 --> 00:53:49.519
Can't tell my bitch the reason why I'm sad.
00:53:49.599 --> 00:53:52.159
If I tell her my problem, she repeated when she's mad.
00:53:52.639 --> 00:53:54.960
Bro, I felt that in my soul.
00:53:55.440 --> 00:53:56.000
You know what I'm saying?
00:53:56.159 --> 00:53:58.239
Because you have to protect your energy sometimes.
00:53:58.480 --> 00:53:58.960
Right.
00:53:59.280 --> 00:54:00.239
No, real shit.
00:54:00.480 --> 00:54:00.960
Yeah, man.
00:54:01.119 --> 00:54:08.000
And um, and speak more about the importance of why y'all felt like y'all had to make that record in hip-hop, in the hip-hop space.
00:54:08.239 --> 00:54:13.840
Because I understand that it's no vulnerable space for for street guys.
00:54:14.559 --> 00:54:19.280
It doesn't seem like it's cool to be able to vent or be vulnerable, so we hold it in.
00:54:19.920 --> 00:54:22.000
Me, I rap, that's my therapy.
00:54:22.159 --> 00:54:23.840
I have a place to I feel the same way, bro.
00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:25.360
I have a place to express myself.
00:54:25.679 --> 00:54:27.760
Man, say say that again, because it's so important.
00:54:28.079 --> 00:54:29.840
But everybody don't got the outlet.
00:54:29.920 --> 00:54:30.159
Yeah.
00:54:30.400 --> 00:54:34.079
So I, you know, I felt like me making this song would be like an outlet for them.
00:54:34.159 --> 00:54:39.360
They could play it and be like, all right, somebody else going through this shit, it made it through this shit, so good, I'll be all right type shit.
00:54:39.440 --> 00:54:40.559
You know what I'm saying?
00:54:40.800 --> 00:54:41.360
Yeah, man.
00:54:41.599 --> 00:54:43.760
Yeah, records like that important, man.
00:54:44.079 --> 00:54:48.719
Um, how important is it for you to keep the message in your music?
00:54:48.800 --> 00:54:50.719
Like a message of some sort.
00:54:50.880 --> 00:54:52.159
It's very important, man.
00:54:52.320 --> 00:54:55.360
Like, that's probably why I don't listen to so much music.
00:54:55.920 --> 00:54:58.480
I want to be able to take something away from it.
00:54:58.719 --> 00:54:59.039
Yeah.
00:54:59.280 --> 00:55:05.840
You know, even if I can't fully apply it to my life, let me learn something, you know, that I possibly could use for later.
00:55:06.000 --> 00:55:07.599
Tell me about an experience.
00:55:09.039 --> 00:55:10.480
If you went poor, tell me about it.
00:55:10.559 --> 00:55:12.159
If you lost all your money, tell me about it.
00:55:12.639 --> 00:55:13.599
Like, you know what I mean?
00:55:13.679 --> 00:55:15.199
Tell me your pain.
00:55:15.280 --> 00:55:15.519
Yeah.
00:55:15.760 --> 00:55:18.159
So, you know, I could I could learn something from it.
00:55:18.320 --> 00:55:20.800
I want to be able to walk away with something.
00:55:21.039 --> 00:55:22.800
So that's how I approach music.
00:55:22.880 --> 00:55:28.880
Like, even though I'm giving you balls of saying slick shit, of saying this, that, and the third, I still want you to be able to walk away with something.
00:55:29.440 --> 00:55:30.400
In the midst of all that.
00:55:30.480 --> 00:55:34.159
But I know you can't feed steak to a baby, so I don't want to be up here preaching.
00:55:34.559 --> 00:55:37.920
So I gotta, you know, kind of like hide the jewels in there.
00:55:38.079 --> 00:55:38.719
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:55:38.800 --> 00:55:39.039
You know?
00:55:39.280 --> 00:55:40.239
In the applesauce in there.
00:55:40.400 --> 00:55:42.719
Yeah, I might have to hide the jewels in the applesauce for real.
00:55:43.119 --> 00:55:55.039
Speaking of the babies and the jewels and everything, can you unpack how having children has inspired you as an artist and maybe changed you as an artist?
00:55:55.519 --> 00:55:59.039
Oh man, like my biggest motivation is definitely the kids.
00:55:59.119 --> 00:56:05.440
And it changed me a lot because it actually made me want to put more Jews inside of the music as well.
00:56:05.599 --> 00:56:10.639
Because you think you like, yo, damn, when I'm not here, my kids and my grandkids is gonna go back to listen to this.
00:56:10.960 --> 00:56:11.760
Just because.
00:56:12.400 --> 00:56:16.639
And I realized this may be a way for me to talk to these future generations.
00:56:17.199 --> 00:56:18.000
You know what I mean?
00:56:18.159 --> 00:56:24.559
With these Jews and my outlooks and my perspectives, they'll be able to go and listen to that a hundred years from now.
00:56:24.719 --> 00:56:25.440
Great grandkids.
00:56:25.519 --> 00:56:27.199
Let me see what's how special thinking.
00:56:27.280 --> 00:56:31.039
So I didn't want it to all be bravado and bragging and things of that nature.
00:56:31.119 --> 00:56:35.519
I want to make sure that I'm putting my true feelings, true experiences inside of this.
00:56:35.760 --> 00:56:40.079
So the future generations I have something to go back to and study and learn from.
00:56:40.239 --> 00:56:40.960
You know what I mean?
00:56:41.199 --> 00:56:42.159
So it's very important.
00:56:42.400 --> 00:56:42.960
Yeah, man.
00:56:43.199 --> 00:56:45.360
Ladies and gentlemen, 38 Special.
00:56:46.320 --> 00:56:47.119
Let me ask you this, bro.
00:56:47.199 --> 00:56:47.519
Thank you, bro.
00:56:48.000 --> 00:56:49.519
Appreciate you, salute.
00:56:49.599 --> 00:56:50.480
Thank you, man, for your time.
00:56:50.559 --> 00:56:50.880
It's great.
00:56:52.960 --> 00:56:54.639
Y'all like, y'all tough with 38 Special.
00:56:54.800 --> 00:56:55.199
It's real.
00:56:55.280 --> 00:56:55.599
It's real.
00:56:55.679 --> 00:56:56.320
It's not AI.
00:56:56.400 --> 00:56:58.079
This is really a real battle.