Stability First, Significance Second (ft. Chris Lavoie)

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You're listening to KW Mean's Beyond the Sale podcast.
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Well, welcome back, everybody, to Beyond the Sale, and so excited today because I get to talk to somebody who I've known for probably too long at this point, but close to 20 years at least.
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Chris Lavoie, welcome, welcome.
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Thanks for coming on the pod.
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Thanks, Brad.
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Yeah.
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Appreciate it.
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So I love the origin story.
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So just give me a little bit of the origin story.
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Where'd you grow up?
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High school, college, what got you attracted to real estate?
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Yep.
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Grew up in Auburn.
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Yeah.
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Went to Edward Little, Edward Little, Edward Little.
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And um didn't stray far for college.
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Went to Orno.
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Yeah.
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Did the uh the normal migration for uh a main a main high school student.
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Um up to Orno, then down to Portland.
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You know, I gotta say, shout out to UMO.
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Uh great experience up there.
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You know, I think and I think if you go there, like if anything in life, if you go there with the right mindset, you know, it's not about it was less, it was more about a journey into adulthood in school, yeah.
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And and enjoying things and seeing things and more about the general experience.
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So that was that was really taking those next steps, but you still have a safety net around.
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Exactly.
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You're close to home, but you know, still m doing my own thing.
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So it was uh it was a nice transition point, I think.
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Nice.
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Um so So you graduated or now?
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Yeah.
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What time when was that roughly?
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Uh 2002.
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Yeah.
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Uh May 2002.
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Uh got into real estate, May 2002.
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There we go.
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Uh as growing on you.
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As I was graduating from college the last two months, I had an old uh um friend of mine in in classes, and he was saying, Oh, get my real estate license.
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And we had talked about it in the past, and I was like, Do you think I can get in?
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And he and he goes, I don't know, maybe call call this guy, yeah, Kit Foster, who's a legend.
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Who's a legend?
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Absolutely.
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Um one of the top two, three trainers in real estate in the state of Maine, period.
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End of conversation.
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So got my real estate license the last two months of my college career.
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So you're wrapping up your schooling while doing that at the same time.
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Exactly.
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Wow.
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And then um got licensed.
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Yep.
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Um my folks were actually moving, they they raised us in Auburn, but after high school for them, they relocated to the Portland area.
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So they lived in Portland for years before they migrated back up towards family where they where they had grown up.
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Oh, okay.
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And so um, so my whole life they grew up telling me how great Portland was.
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Yeah.
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Um, and so when when we when I was leaving because my brother's older than me, when I was coming back or leaving college, uh, they wanted to migrate uh close back to Portland.
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Yeah, and that's how I met Kathleen, who is a woman that I I started working with on the brokerage side.
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Yeah.
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Um, and so uh went to work with her, and uh, you know, that was kind of clearly a a spot that wasn't long term gonna be probably a great place to start a career.
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Um and she gave you a shot.
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Yeah, gave me a shot.
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Yeah, yeah, it was good.
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I mean, it was I I was learning some stuff.
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I was learning what to do and what not to do, I'd say.
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That's big.
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And um and then I'd done a couple deals really early on with with uh a few influential brokers in the Portland area, uh Leanne and Dottie.
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Sure.
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Um uh Kim Fowler, uh, but a handful of folks that uh are still still in the business.
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Yeah.
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And um they I I had a number of different people kind of put nudging me towards KW.
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Yeah.
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Um I knew I had to go someplace more career focused.
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Yep.
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And uh, and that's that's how I ended up at at the Cal One's because it was it was starting as I was getting out of uh as I was kind of getting my career to so first career launching in real estate, you know, it's unpredictable income, it's I mean, it's just one big question mark in those first couple of years.
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How did you swing that?
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I mean, I yeah, that that becomes a tripping spot for so many people trying to break into real estate.
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So, how did you navigate that?
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So never really had made any money.
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Slubly, lovely, you know.
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I just uh but I was always a worker, I always I had jobs, I used to bag groceries at Hannaford.
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I uh you know, then I was a cashier, and so I did that.
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I did that a little bit in high in college as well.
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Um I just knew I could kind of figure it out.
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And and I wasn't and I would and I moved in with my parents, honestly.
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I moved in with my parents.
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Um just thinking of, you know, expenses are low.
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Yeah, exactly.
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Yep.
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Um uh started started in the business, just kind of hocked in.
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I think a lot of it is uh not thinking too much about it.
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I think if you focus on sort of the in and you're anxious about, oh, how's this gonna work?
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Like you can't really quite see see the path.
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As opposed to just starting.
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Yeah, just starting and just getting in and just being involved and day to day, you know, showing up every day, just learning, looking, engaging with people that want to teach.
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Right.
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Um, you know, I feel like that feels like me now.
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Yeah.
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Where it's like I want to share that sort of experience to help others, you know, and kind of navigate forward.
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Um, so yeah.
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Yeah, funny.
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Just a quick 24 years later, right?
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Yeah, yeah.
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No big deal.
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No big deal.
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Um so what was that tipping point for you where you're like, all right, I can go out, get my own place, you know, and start, you know, taking on those steps in life post-college.
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Um, I had a girlfriend throughout college.
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Uh she was renting a place in South Portland.
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So I quickly moved out of my folks' place.
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Uh, in with her, we it was two couples.
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We were we were uh we were sharing an apartment.
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Um, you know, I was probably making thirty thousand dollars a year, yeah, you know, um for the first couple years and just just sort of bootstrapping, kind of getting by.
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Um also like at that point you're 22, so you you know, you're not doing the crazy, you're not doing really trips, you're not doing, you're you know, you're you're living frugally.
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Right.
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And date night is pizza.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, yeah, you're taking it easy.
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So I I I don't really, it wasn't like a big jump, or you know, I'm right out of college too.
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So, you know, we're being pretty smart about what our expenses are and what the sort of luxuries that we do we are able to do.
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Yeah.
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So kept the expenses low, yeah, um, shared housing, kept things affordable, great.
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Um fast forward a year or two, what did that look like?
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When did when did you kind of take the next step in terms of your real estate business, but also like what that looked like in your personal life, in terms of getting out on your own.
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And you know, again, I just the reason I want to harp on it a little bit is it's the part that I think most people coming into real estate kind of suffer in silence in you know, that that struggling to get it going piece of what that looks like, and it's so easy 24 years in and look, oh my god, Chris has always always had it together, always had it all figured out, and da-da-da-da-da.
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But what it what did it look like behind the curtain?
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Yeah, I think it was a lot of just showing up every day, grinding, trying to find leads, trying to uh communicate with my network of people that I was really growing because I I didn't I didn't grow up in Portland.
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Right, you know, I grew up north of Portland.
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How many people do you know in Portland with the?
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I mean, not not many, not many.
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I think yeah, there was there was people that were doing the classic migration from Orno down to Portland College people.
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Yeah, exactly.
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And some people your folks knew.
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Totally, yeah, yeah.
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And I was working all those leads.
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I was trying to get my mom to, you know, give me, you know, call her friends and you know, uh, and you know, a call one of my first transactions did with Leanne and Dottie, actually.
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That's how I met them.
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And it was a college friend of mine.
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Yep.
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Um and then, you know, I think it was just more like showing up every day and just uh I kind of pictured it like this, whereas it it's it wasn't it wasn't actually that hard if you were just comfortable showing up every day working and knowing that results will it will happen eventually.
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Right.
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A little patience.
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Yeah, you just gotta have and and I'm an impatient person.
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Right.
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Meaning I I want things faster than what is maybe realistic at times, which I see in my children.
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Hey, how about that?
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Which is really uh a fun mirror exercise.
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Yep.
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My wife has reminded me of that probably no less than six times this year.
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Right.
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If I'm harping on one of my kids about something, and she will remind me.
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She will just say, Hey Brad, what were you like when you were 12?
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Like, I know, my wife understood that too.
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Yeah.
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So, but there is an aspect of that that I think is important to focus on for half a second, which is that combination of impatience and patience.
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There's a tension there, right?
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And the impatience is in I'm gonna be diligent and work hard at this every single day.
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Like I'm gonna, I'm getting after this right now, right now, right now.
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Now, not tomorrow I'll go to the office.
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No, no, no, I'm gonna do it today.
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Right now, I'm gonna make that extra call now.
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I'm gonna call, I'm gonna follow up that person now, da da da.
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But then the patience piece of well, if it's not the right timing for them, it's not the right timing for them.
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And you have to, you learn that over time.
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You learn that over time.
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Yeah, right.
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You get disappointed enough, yeah, enough times where you you realize, okay, well, I can't force anybody to do it, and I actually think that's brilliant in the business, and I actually use that as a as kind of a sale a sales technique where I tell people, look, I can't talk you into this.
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I can't make anybody buy and sell a$500,000 home, whatever it may be.
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It's like you're gonna do this if it makes sense for you.
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Correct.
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And um, you're looking for somebody to strategize and navigate you through the process, right?
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That's what I'm actually really good at.
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Right.
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You know, but you gotta be in it.
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And if you're not in it, it's all good.
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Yeah, like you know, and maybe that's two years from now, maybe that's 10 years from now.
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So it's all good.
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Like I'd still pressure.
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One of my favorite stories around you is you know, COVID happens and our office switched to a daily phone call.
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Daily phone call.
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We were doing a zoom, and we had so many people on that thing every single day, 8 a.m.
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went from 8 to 10.
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Shout out Mark Richard.
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I'd do the first hour, he'd do the second hour.
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And um, man, there are aspects about that time that I'd love to go back to.
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I mean, just so much connection with it.
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Um we weren't two, three weeks in, and you had somebody pull the trigger on something, and you shared with the group on that call that you had been following up with that person for 12 years.
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Oh yeah.
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12 years.
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David Buchanan.
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I didn't I know I I know the uh I know the the house.
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Yeah, I was living on the west end, and um he used to walk down right by my place and um buy egg sandwiches at the local press.
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There we go.
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And we yeah, we got to know each other and I just stayed in touch.
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And and I and I think like that's literally the business is like, can you stay in touch that long?
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Because in that scenario, if if he thinks I'm a good guy, that I'm trustworthy, he where else would he go?
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Right.
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And if I'm following up with him regularly, which is maybe a few times a year, yeah, you know, he's like he's gonna reach out.
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And he's done transactions with other people, yeah.
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You know, which I you know, it's it's all good.
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That's good.
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And I've just stayed in touch with him, and it's it was it's like you know, people I I think what I think when we were going through that part of um the the pandemic, yeah, it was so much turmoil, it was such a weird time for everybody that people were reevaluating some of the decisions, big time, you know, and and and what I see particularly in in investment real estate is uh people there's a lot of inertia to to make changes.
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And this was a house that he had lived in that he had he had started renting because he had moved away.
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Yep.
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And he's just like, all right, I I gotta do something here.
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Yeah.
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And and that's always going to be happening.
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Yes.
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No matter what.
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No matter what.
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So if you doesn't matter what interest rates are, doesn't matter what war is going on wherever, doesn't matter if we're in the middle of a pandemic, it doesn't matter.
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That's gonna keep happening.
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Yeah.
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That's one of the things I love about real estate.
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It's just so I love about it.
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It's not an ancillary thing.
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I mean, you're drinking out of a Stanley or a whatever, like, yeah, you could go buy three more, but you could also not.
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Like, you know, I mean, that could just go away as a thing.
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Having a roof over our head, nope.
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That's a forever thing.
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Right.
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That's a forever thing.
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Right.
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Which it which is why it kind of pulled me more towards an investment stuff.
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I I think as I as I got deeper in real estate, I realized that yeah, you know, individually we can own a home.
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Yep.
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Um, but but a lot of the people that were trying to make maybe trying to grow wealth, um, they would focus in real estate.
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And there was I had a handful of mentors you know, through that that were focused in what and in real estate, and and that really just gave me the the opportunity, showed me the opportunity that there was if I could engage and be really good and and um honest and truthful and all those things in in um in the investment side, then people would just want to do things.
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I mean, I I just had a client of mine just called me over the uh Friday, and I mean we got like four transactions, he wants to do four transactions.
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I mean, that's probably like three million.
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Right.
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You know, and and I mean when did you meet him?
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I think I want to say it was like ten years ago or so on a listing that I had that he called me on, and we had a good conversation.
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He ended up buying it direct, uh direct through me.
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Um, and then I've since sold him maybe 10-15 million dollars worth of property.
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Oh my gosh.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And he's a great pick up the phone on that call.
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Great guy.
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We're close to their family now.
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Like we just got, you know.
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That's great.
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Um, so yeah.
00:15:25.759 --> 00:15:27.919
Started as a phone call, turned into a relationship.
00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:28.480
Exactly.
00:15:28.559 --> 00:15:29.759
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:15:29.840 --> 00:15:31.120
Just a quick 10 years later.
00:15:31.279 --> 00:15:31.759
No big deal.
00:15:31.919 --> 00:15:32.399
Right, exactly.
00:15:32.559 --> 00:15:33.120
No big deal.
00:15:33.200 --> 00:15:33.440
Yeah.
00:15:33.679 --> 00:15:38.559
Um, so where was your business at when you bought your first investment property?
00:15:38.639 --> 00:15:47.039
I want to I want to talk through this parallel of as you grew your real estate business, how that started to play into this investing side.
00:15:47.200 --> 00:15:51.919
Just so people know, how many real estate um units do you own right now?
00:15:52.159 --> 00:15:53.120
Uh 22 doors.
00:15:53.360 --> 00:15:54.480
22 doors right now.
00:15:54.639 --> 00:15:56.399
How many different properties is that?
00:15:56.639 --> 00:15:59.360
Uh over four properties.
00:15:59.600 --> 00:16:01.519
Over four different properties, 22 doors.
00:16:02.000 --> 00:16:03.840
Some of that's commercial, some of it's residential.
00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:04.159
Right.
00:16:04.480 --> 00:16:05.120
Yeah, it's a mix.
00:16:05.440 --> 00:16:05.679
Great.
00:16:05.840 --> 00:16:08.320
So that that's that's where the conversation's going.
00:16:08.559 --> 00:16:15.519
Um what was your real estate business like when you started to buy investment properties?
00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:26.000
Well, I started to do that really early, like yeah, on in my career, because one thing that I realized is this is a great opportunity to build wealth.
00:16:26.639 --> 00:16:30.159
And if you start going early, you get more opportunities.
00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:30.480
Right.
00:16:30.639 --> 00:16:34.080
And you actually get smarter, you get more experienced, right?
00:16:34.240 --> 00:16:42.559
And that's really where I wanted to focus because I always looked a little younger, and I'm 20.
00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:45.840
I'm 22, 23 in the business.
00:16:45.919 --> 00:16:46.080
Yeah.
00:16:46.320 --> 00:16:52.240
And so the the only way for me to have more um more experience is to actually get more experience.
00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:52.480
Right.
00:16:52.639 --> 00:16:53.360
And so what I started.
00:16:53.679 --> 00:16:56.960
You're not gonna lose your hair like I did, and that made me look like I had more experiences.
00:16:57.279 --> 00:16:58.480
Hopefully not, hopefully not.
00:16:58.720 --> 00:17:12.000
Um, but you know, I started basically uh just really understanding the financing side of things because um and and that was just uh building a relationship with lenders that I knew and getting to know and just picking their brain.
00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:15.759
Hey, how how would I how would I try to buy, you know, what's the cheapest way I could buy?
00:17:15.839 --> 00:17:18.480
Oh, FHA, three three and a half percent down.
00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:19.519
Okay, cool.
00:17:19.680 --> 00:17:21.440
How you know what would that look like?
00:17:21.599 --> 00:17:32.480
Um, and then I basically would start reverse engineering based on what they told me the guidelines were to what I needed to do personally.
00:17:32.799 --> 00:17:33.680
So here are the guidelines.
00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:35.279
Yep, here's what I'm looking to do.
00:17:35.440 --> 00:17:39.279
Yep, right, and then ultimately what properties fit through those filters.
00:17:39.519 --> 00:17:39.839
Exactly.
00:17:39.920 --> 00:17:40.480
Yeah, yep.
00:17:40.640 --> 00:17:47.119
And and you know, I was um I was, you know, initially I bought a condo, a Glenridge condo.
00:17:47.200 --> 00:17:48.240
Um live in that?
00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:51.279
Lived in it with my girlfriend uh for a bit.
00:17:51.519 --> 00:17:57.759
Um and then um we ended up splitting and I was able to kind of sell her my interest.
00:17:58.000 --> 00:17:58.640
Oh, okay.
00:17:58.960 --> 00:18:01.279
Which made me$13,000,$15,000.
00:18:02.079 --> 00:18:02.640
Can't remember.
00:18:02.720 --> 00:18:02.960
Yep.
00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:08.000
That was the seed money that I used to do the next thing, which was the place on Bracket Street.
00:18:08.079 --> 00:18:08.400
Yeah.
00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:11.039
Um worst place on Bracket Street.
00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:12.640
Bracket Street's a huge street, too.
00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:12.880
Yeah.
00:18:13.119 --> 00:18:15.440
Worst I bought the the dog of the dog.
00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:16.160
Yeah.
00:18:19.279 --> 00:18:19.759
Yeah.
00:18:20.079 --> 00:18:21.839
And uh, you know, fix it up.
00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:23.279
Now why why that?
00:18:23.680 --> 00:18:24.480
I mean, this is a few.
00:18:24.640 --> 00:18:25.279
It was your affordable.
00:18:25.599 --> 00:18:26.079
Yeah, both of them.
00:18:26.240 --> 00:18:27.599
It was it it was affordable.
00:18:27.839 --> 00:18:30.240
It I it it was$140,000.
00:18:30.559 --> 00:18:38.079
It was the only thing I could really do that had that had legs to it, that I could, you know, and it had three bedrooms, one and a half baths.
00:18:38.160 --> 00:18:42.799
I I filled it immediately with two uh roommates who I didn't even know.
00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:43.440
Yeah.
00:18:43.759 --> 00:18:46.160
They became friends, they've become friends of mine.
00:18:46.240 --> 00:18:46.559
Yeah.
00:18:46.720 --> 00:18:50.079
Um, I sold it to one of my roommates.
00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:54.480
Yep uh in the end, this is years later, but lived there for a while.
00:18:54.559 --> 00:18:58.000
And and uh actually got some great memories from that place.
00:18:58.160 --> 00:18:58.559
That's right.
00:18:58.720 --> 00:19:03.759
Because I was single at the time and on the West End and fixing it up, learning lessons there, I'm sure.
00:19:03.920 --> 00:19:04.079
Sure.
00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:05.279
Big parties.
00:19:05.359 --> 00:19:07.039
We had some big parties there.
00:19:08.079 --> 00:19:08.559
Very good.
00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:10.160
Great time, great time.
00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:10.880
Very good.
00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:22.000
Um, but it you know what I heard in that, and maybe you didn't say it exactly that way, but this is the way I heard it, is the numbers all worked on the purchase of that property.
00:19:22.240 --> 00:19:29.359
So the condition of it that was part of the numbers, and so it was like, why would that scare you away?
00:19:29.599 --> 00:19:31.440
All that stuff's fixable, right?
00:19:31.599 --> 00:19:41.759
All the things on the property are fixable, and we know what the what it's gonna cost-ish, and the numbers still work, and I can still finance it this way, and I've got the seed money from the condo, and giddy up, let's do it.
00:19:41.839 --> 00:19:48.000
And that I think that that money that I got in that transition really just helped with purchase.
00:19:48.160 --> 00:19:48.400
Yeah.
00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:56.799
So then it was like, all right, well, now I just need to grind to earn money to actually be able to pay for the renovations.
00:19:56.880 --> 00:19:57.119
Yeah.
00:19:57.599 --> 00:20:21.200
And so I think I think part of the sort of the the sauce for me was putting myself in compromise situations that weren't overly um risky, but were enough pressure that I could not not succeed or not take advantage of failure's not okay.
00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:23.039
Yeah, just I didn't I didn't have any choice.
00:20:23.119 --> 00:20:25.519
I didn't I didn't come from any money, didn't have any money.
00:20:25.599 --> 00:20:27.039
I was just I was just grinding it out.
00:20:27.440 --> 00:20:35.279
And and trying to have a good time, trying to live a good life, but also um just trying to make a go of it.
00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:35.680
Right.
00:20:35.839 --> 00:20:40.000
You know, uh I met my wife while we were at Bracket Street, yeah.
00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:47.680
And um, and then I ended up buying a three unit with Linda Mansfield, if you'll remember.
00:20:48.079 --> 00:20:50.480
Um great great great broker with our office.
00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:50.799
Yep.
00:20:50.880 --> 00:20:52.720
Um you guys partnered in that purchase.
00:20:53.200 --> 00:20:59.200
And actually, and actually, initially, I I put it under I put under the other building.
00:20:59.359 --> 00:20:59.680
Yep.
00:21:00.160 --> 00:21:00.720
Myself.
00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:01.200
Yep.
00:21:01.440 --> 00:21:07.440
And then was realizing I wasn't, I was a little over my skis, as they say.
00:21:07.599 --> 00:21:07.920
Uh-huh.
00:21:08.240 --> 00:21:15.440
And I didn't quite know the process, but Linda was a good friend of mine, good colleague of mine, and she had been through the conduitation process.
00:21:15.759 --> 00:21:16.160
Got it.
00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:24.000
Um and and in the state of Maine, they have their own condo by like direction on how you have to do a conduitization.
00:21:24.160 --> 00:21:24.240
Yeah.
00:21:24.400 --> 00:21:27.759
But then Portland has their own overlay.
00:21:28.079 --> 00:21:37.200
And so um I ended up 50-50 partnering with her to help navigate through uh converting a three unit, a beautiful three unit into three condos.
00:21:37.279 --> 00:21:44.720
And uh so, so we're so really it was all you know, it was all owner occupied because that was the only way I could do it because it was low down payment.
00:21:44.799 --> 00:21:45.200
Yep.
00:21:45.519 --> 00:21:54.240
Um and then I was I was looking for partners in certain ways that could maybe have the skill set that I didn't have, so I could learn that.
00:21:54.799 --> 00:21:57.279
Um how much real estate were you?
00:21:57.920 --> 00:22:03.680
What did your business look like in terms of Sales at the time that you put this three unit under contract.
00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:06.400
Like how much how much real estate were you selling back then?
00:22:06.720 --> 00:22:10.240
Man, I would say maybe twenty, twenty-five.
00:22:10.559 --> 00:22:12.160
Twenty to twenty-five units a year.
00:22:12.319 --> 00:22:17.279
Yeah, probably something somewhere in that in the still living below what you're making.
00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:17.839
For sure.
00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:18.559
Saving.
00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:18.880
Yeah.
00:22:19.039 --> 00:22:20.400
And putting it towards real estate.
00:22:20.559 --> 00:22:32.880
I give mom my mom a lot of credit because she helped me start take she she basically just taught me to take 30% of whatever I was making and just put it into a separate account.
00:22:32.960 --> 00:22:34.079
That was my tax account.
00:22:34.160 --> 00:22:34.480
Yep.
00:22:34.960 --> 00:22:37.599
But it ended up being a huge savings account.
00:22:37.759 --> 00:22:38.079
Right.
00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:45.839
Because and I would rob that account at times to put it into the properties that I was working on.
00:22:46.079 --> 00:22:48.799
And again, then that's that sets a clock pressure-wise going on.
00:22:48.960 --> 00:22:49.119
Exactly.
00:22:49.519 --> 00:22:51.599
I gotta refill that by April 15th.
00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:52.559
Exactly.
00:22:52.720 --> 00:22:53.599
Yeah, exactly.
00:22:55.039 --> 00:23:05.200
And I don't, you know, I just want to pause and talk to the listeners for a second because I know there are certain people who are wired in such a way that that really doesn't work for them.
00:23:05.519 --> 00:23:12.720
I happen to be similarly wired, like the more I'm painted into a corner, the better the version of Brad you're gonna get.
00:23:12.799 --> 00:23:12.880
Yeah.
00:23:13.039 --> 00:23:13.440
Right?
00:23:13.599 --> 00:23:15.839
And and you're obviously a person like that too.
00:23:15.920 --> 00:23:21.200
If I have if I have this excess pressure on me, I'm gonna perform at a higher level.
00:23:21.359 --> 00:23:21.920
And I get it.
00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:28.960
If that's not you as a listener, hey, there are other paths, that's why we do all sorts of interviews on this, but I happen to be wired that same way.
00:23:29.039 --> 00:23:30.960
I got into real estate and it was the same thing.
00:23:31.119 --> 00:23:34.720
Like I had$500 to my name, and it's like, this has to work.
00:23:35.200 --> 00:23:35.839
This has to work.
00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:36.559
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:23:36.960 --> 00:23:37.119
Yeah.
00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:39.279
So we're doing about 20, 25 deals.
00:23:39.359 --> 00:23:40.480
We get this condo.
00:23:40.640 --> 00:23:43.039
And then what happened with your partner on the condo?
00:23:43.519 --> 00:23:48.880
She uh Linda gets diagnosed with uh pancreatic cancer and dies months later.
00:23:49.039 --> 00:23:49.599
Yeah.
00:23:49.759 --> 00:23:52.000
Uh, which was super sad first.
00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:53.680
Oh my god, of course.
00:23:53.839 --> 00:24:05.039
Um, and then just really difficult to now figure out how do you navigate through um you already knew you needed a partner in this.
00:24:05.119 --> 00:24:05.519
That's what I'm saying.
00:24:05.839 --> 00:24:07.519
I partnered with her for a reason.
00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:12.400
We had a plan, and um, so she passes.
00:24:12.559 --> 00:24:14.640
I end up selling the other two units.
00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:16.240
We keep one.
00:24:16.799 --> 00:24:19.680
Uh this is the three unit that we converted to Condos.
00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:22.160
I keep one of the units that was the plan.
00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:27.200
And then I'm literally working with her sheep herder brother from Kentucky.
00:24:28.160 --> 00:24:29.359
He's he's the executor.
00:24:29.599 --> 00:24:31.200
Can't make this stuff up, folks.
00:24:31.519 --> 00:24:32.720
Executor of her estate.
00:24:32.960 --> 00:24:43.599
And um and you know, we had used Linda's attorney, and it was different than what we had agreed to, and so you know, look, we we got through it.
00:24:43.839 --> 00:24:44.319
Hard to navigate.
00:24:44.559 --> 00:24:45.519
Yeah, we we got through it.
00:24:45.599 --> 00:24:56.400
It wasn't it wasn't ideal, but I I feel like um put your best foot forward and you and you just kind of you get through it in the best way you can.
00:24:56.559 --> 00:25:08.720
And um, long and short of it, uh my whole thing was if I it was my primary residence for uh a year, right, uh then I could call then then I could save the ta capital gains tax.
00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:09.039
Right.
00:25:09.200 --> 00:25:11.599
And so from there we rolled that.
00:25:11.920 --> 00:25:18.240
I sold that unit, um, and we went into a two-unit in South Portland with my my wife and I.
00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:18.960
Oh, nice.
00:25:19.359 --> 00:25:27.839
And um and we uh and that was a really great experience, and that would that's actually one of the assets, one of the the properties we still own today.
00:25:28.640 --> 00:25:31.200
You know, um how long ago was that?
00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:34.559
That would have been like 12, I think, 2012.
00:25:34.880 --> 00:25:35.839
So 14 years ago.
00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:36.240
Yeah.
00:25:36.400 --> 00:25:39.839
So it was the first piece of the portfolio that you still have.
00:25:40.559 --> 00:25:41.039
Correct.
00:25:41.279 --> 00:25:42.640
Yep, yep, yep, yep.
00:25:42.880 --> 00:25:53.359
And you know, I something I think is important to point out, like each one of the things that you've already shared about the investment journey, man, none of those were easy.
00:25:53.519 --> 00:26:00.720
I mean, I can just picture I buy a condo with my girlfriend who I'm probably thinking this is gonna be long term, and then ends up not being long term.
00:26:00.799 --> 00:26:00.960
Yeah.
00:26:01.039 --> 00:26:02.400
And now we gotta unwind that.
00:26:02.480 --> 00:26:15.920
And then I buy a property and I've never done a big rehab or anything like that, and I get a couple of strangers to live with me, and then I've got to find the money through my real estate business, which I'm also trying to, you know, just launch and take to the next level.
00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:17.119
That's not freaking easy.
00:26:17.200 --> 00:26:19.920
I get a partner, somebody I really value, trust.
00:26:20.160 --> 00:26:23.759
She ends up getting sick and passing away, and now I've got to navigate that man.
00:26:24.240 --> 00:26:31.039
Like that arc, I would argue, is enough for a lot of people to go, I think I'm done investing in real estate.
00:26:31.279 --> 00:26:33.279
So, what was it that kept you coming back?
00:26:33.519 --> 00:26:35.119
You know, I think for punishment.
00:26:35.440 --> 00:26:37.200
Yeah, I think I think I like the hunt.
00:26:37.359 --> 00:26:43.119
I I um I'm a visionary in that I I love seeing opportunity in things.
00:26:43.359 --> 00:26:56.079
Um I love relating that back to real estate, envisioning properties beautifully set up in what they would have been like in the day, right?
00:26:56.160 --> 00:26:58.799
We have the oldest housing talk in the nation here.
00:26:58.960 --> 00:27:02.000
Um, there's a lot of that, there's a lot of opportunity there.
00:27:02.240 --> 00:27:09.680
I think um, yeah, and I think it's just you just kind of keep looking, looking forward and leveling up.
00:27:09.839 --> 00:27:32.240
I I I would not at the time, but I would say that I had a bunch of um mentors too that were doing bigger things that I think seeing them do or big bigger things was kind of pulling me through this this crap that I was going through, and it was small potatoes relatively, right?
00:27:32.319 --> 00:27:37.440
It was small potatoes versus what I was watching, what I was witnessing, you know.
00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:41.599
Um and I think you just kind of you stay focused.
00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:49.680
Um I think uh you know um financing was really inexpensive, that really helped um back then.
00:27:49.839 --> 00:27:58.400
So that that allowed me to Did you realize it was affordable at the time, or is it now that rates have gone back up and you look back and go, oh, four and a half.
00:27:58.640 --> 00:27:59.839
Maybe I did a good thing.
00:28:00.079 --> 00:28:09.680
I think I did because you know, I think being in the industry and um working with older brokers, like everybody would give you the story of 14-15 percent.
00:28:10.079 --> 00:28:16.000
1981, but yeah, and you know, it's like okay, and then and then I started to do some research.
00:28:16.079 --> 00:28:20.640
I realized historic aver historic average is you know seven, seven and change.
00:28:20.799 --> 00:28:24.640
Um, and then um, and then you know, we're in the threes fours, right?
00:28:24.880 --> 00:28:31.440
Threes and fours, so you know, why not you know be investing and also being encouraged to do that too?
00:28:31.839 --> 00:28:37.039
Because it's one of those few things you can lock that in for 15 or 30 years.
00:28:37.519 --> 00:28:40.000
So when that moment happens, yeah.
00:28:40.640 --> 00:28:45.359
And so so right to that point, it's all about being ready for real estate to buy real estate.
00:28:45.759 --> 00:28:59.599
So a lot of a lot of my education and sort of um cons consulting with my clients is to get them to realize unless you're ready, like really pre-approved and ready, you're not ready.
00:28:59.759 --> 00:29:00.000
Right.
00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:04.400
And so, so it's also it's all it's usually just trying to get them to take the next step.
00:29:04.880 --> 00:29:13.839
I just got off the front phone with an old friend of mine who I who had sold the building long ago to, and he wants to transition out of that into a better school system for his family.
00:29:14.079 --> 00:29:14.319
Right.
00:29:14.559 --> 00:29:16.000
And natural progression.
00:29:16.400 --> 00:29:18.720
It's been two years I've been trying to get him ready.
00:29:18.880 --> 00:29:19.279
Yeah.
00:29:19.440 --> 00:29:20.960
And finally he's now he's ready.
00:29:21.119 --> 00:29:21.519
Now he's ready.
00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:24.240
And it'll happen in the in the next year or so.
00:29:24.400 --> 00:29:24.720
Right.
00:29:24.799 --> 00:29:33.680
Um, but it's it's just you just gotta everyone takes their steps uh the the at their own pace, and you can't force it.
00:29:33.759 --> 00:29:35.920
And so you kind of you you kind of let go.
00:29:36.319 --> 00:29:48.480
Educate, educate, educate, be a resource, be there for Hey, I'm here for you, you know, answering questions, navigating forward, um, and then just kind of letting go and and and moving moving on in my life.
00:29:48.640 --> 00:29:52.559
And because because you because in reality, you can do that with a lot of people, right?
00:29:52.799 --> 00:30:00.079
If you're doing it at a high level and you're um and and frankly, I I just also was trying to level up price-wise.
00:30:00.160 --> 00:30:00.559
Yep.
00:30:01.200 --> 00:30:02.880
Through that whole brokerage period.
00:30:03.039 --> 00:30:03.440
Yep.
00:30:03.920 --> 00:30:07.599
Things are relatively affordable, but I'm always trying to sell more, right?
00:30:07.839 --> 00:30:10.079
Sell more expensive properties.
00:30:10.160 --> 00:30:10.559
Right, right.
00:30:10.799 --> 00:30:16.319
Um, and so trying to level up, level up with that uh that side of it, I was earning better.
00:30:16.559 --> 00:30:29.920
I would be earning better, but I'd say I was, you know, easily using, you know, 30, 40 percent of what I was making, every dollar I was making, for real estate investing.
00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:30.400
Yeah.
00:30:30.559 --> 00:30:36.720
Um, which is very aggressive, but I started to realize that that was kind of the only way to go.
00:30:37.039 --> 00:30:40.240
And in retrospect, I could have been doing more.
00:30:40.400 --> 00:30:40.799
Right.
00:30:41.279 --> 00:30:42.480
Should have been doing more.
00:30:42.880 --> 00:30:46.160
Had a couple opportunities that really missed.
00:30:46.319 --> 00:30:46.640
Yeah.
00:30:46.880 --> 00:30:55.519
Um, one one being when we were at Chapel Street, had a chance to buy a six unit in town, had it under contract, beautiful owner finance, like beautiful deal.
00:30:56.079 --> 00:31:02.000
And uh had to back out of it, had to pay to get to not buy it.
00:31:02.160 --> 00:31:06.160
Oh so so so so all those little experiences.
00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:12.319
Yeah, if you're paying to not purchase something, yeah, that is like ten thousand dollars.
00:31:12.559 --> 00:31:12.960
Yeah.
00:31:13.200 --> 00:31:13.440
Ouch.
00:31:14.079 --> 00:31:16.799
Yeah, I mean that is that isn't a real education.
00:31:16.960 --> 00:31:17.279
Yeah.
00:31:17.519 --> 00:31:21.279
And um, I'm not saying that you have to do that.
00:31:21.519 --> 00:31:24.720
I just think those scenarios show up at times.
00:31:25.039 --> 00:31:31.680
And if you're if you're if you're paying attention to them, you you're you're trying to navigate yourself forward as best you basically can.
00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:40.319
The vast majority of the American public does not live off of 70 or 60% of their income.
00:31:40.720 --> 00:31:43.440
No matter what income bracket, yeah, right?
00:31:43.759 --> 00:31:53.039
Whether they're making$50,000 a year or$250,000 a year, they tend to spend 102% of whatever they're making.
00:31:53.200 --> 00:31:53.359
Yeah.
00:31:53.680 --> 00:31:59.119
Hey, if you're finding value in these conversations and they're resonating with you, be sure to like, follow, and share.
00:31:59.279 --> 00:32:06.240
Our goal is to provide a roadmap to success through the stories of others, and your support helps us reach those who need these stories the most.
00:32:06.400 --> 00:32:10.240
And if you know somebody who could use the inspiration, consider sending it their way.
00:32:10.400 --> 00:32:12.480
Let's go beyond together.
00:32:14.160 --> 00:32:14.480
Yeah.
00:32:14.880 --> 00:32:17.839
So, a couple of questions on that.
00:32:18.160 --> 00:32:24.319
You already referenced your mom in terms of her guidance and helping you, like, hey, squirrel this away, squirrel this away.
00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:26.799
Was there anything else that helped you to do that?
00:32:27.039 --> 00:32:45.920
And were there things in those first five, ten years that were splurges that you did on the personal front that took away from saving even more and you were like, nope, we're doing this, this is gonna be fun, we're gonna, we're gonna throw money at this, whether it be a big vacation or or or something else.
00:32:46.079 --> 00:32:46.480
Yeah.
00:32:46.720 --> 00:32:54.240
Not so much on the vacation front, in just in that um my background doing some distance hiking.
00:32:54.559 --> 00:32:58.799
I never really needed extravagance.
00:32:58.960 --> 00:32:59.279
Right.
00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:03.200
Um, and so it was more about the experience of being in that other place.
00:33:03.359 --> 00:33:03.599
Right.
00:33:03.680 --> 00:33:04.799
Um, so we could do that with it.
00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:12.799
Yeah, so it was you do that relatively affordably in hostels or whatever, travel.
00:33:13.039 --> 00:33:14.319
Um, and they're not ideal.
00:33:14.480 --> 00:33:15.920
We don't do that now, right?
00:33:16.240 --> 00:33:21.119
Um but um but we did just do a camping weekend with my kids, right?
00:33:21.279 --> 00:33:32.480
You know, for probably a fraction of the cost it would have been to to stay at a hotel or do Airbus and you know, we just um good experience.
00:33:32.640 --> 00:33:33.039
Yeah, exactly.
00:33:33.359 --> 00:33:34.319
Good experience, yeah.
00:33:34.480 --> 00:33:35.279
Yeah, I love it.
00:33:35.359 --> 00:33:35.680
I love it.
00:33:35.759 --> 00:33:43.440
Any other anyone else in your life that kind of early on was like, hey, set aside more, spend less?
00:33:43.759 --> 00:33:50.559
I would say Keller Williams has got some some uh of that advice that I was getting early on.
00:33:50.799 --> 00:33:57.839
Because I I'd really plugged into the the KW system and the way to help grow a business.
00:33:58.000 --> 00:33:59.680
So I was really understanding.
00:33:59.759 --> 00:34:04.000
I I I remember doing the Dave Ramsey uh Financial Peace University.
00:34:04.160 --> 00:34:06.640
Yeah, that was impactful for me at the time.
00:34:06.880 --> 00:34:15.840
Um, just in you know, understanding reserves, what was a healthy reserve, uh not taking on debt that you didn't didn't take on.
00:34:16.079 --> 00:34:26.719
Um, I think it started to build uh a skill set around keeping money and how I was managing my money.
00:34:27.199 --> 00:34:38.320
Um and and I did get some feedback at some point whether you know whether it was more of a fear-based uh management of money versus an abundance.
00:34:38.400 --> 00:34:38.800
Yeah.
00:34:39.039 --> 00:34:53.360
Um, but I would say that I probably sit on way more cash than 99.9% of individuals do just because I always wanted stability for me and my family.
00:34:53.519 --> 00:34:58.079
And I always wanted, and what it ended up turning into is it turning into savings.
00:34:58.639 --> 00:35:02.719
So when I did see something that I really wanted to do, I could do it.
00:35:02.960 --> 00:35:13.760
I was there, and so you already had it there, and so it was almost started from from the initial investing side where I was trying to always build and just have um different accounts.
00:35:13.920 --> 00:35:15.679
I mean, a bunch of accounts.
00:35:15.840 --> 00:35:16.079
Right.
00:35:16.239 --> 00:35:20.559
And there's a lot of different accounts because I spread it out because I don't want to see it all the time.
00:35:20.719 --> 00:35:20.880
Right.
00:35:20.960 --> 00:35:21.760
So I would spread it out.
00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:22.960
Want to pretend like I don't know.
00:35:23.199 --> 00:35:36.800
Yeah, I would spread it out um and uh and and I would I know it's there, but it would just be uh psychology psychologically, it would it would help me save and be ready when when something would need would appear.
00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:37.280
Yep.
00:35:37.440 --> 00:35:38.320
Um yeah.
00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:39.199
No, it is.
00:35:39.280 --> 00:35:45.519
I I do a similar technique where some of the stuff I have set aside, whether it be retirement or whatever, like I don't want to see it.
00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:52.880
Yeah, I literally like I want to pretend like it's not there, and then maybe once or twice a year go take a look at it, you know, around tax time or whatever.
00:35:52.960 --> 00:35:54.079
And yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:35:54.320 --> 00:35:54.880
I think that's good.
00:35:54.960 --> 00:35:55.760
I think that's good.
00:35:56.079 --> 00:36:03.280
So 20 plus investment properties now, 20 plus plus years in real estate now.
00:36:03.920 --> 00:36:11.760
Um give us some of the hard-earned lessons here, like both on the real estate sales side, but also on the investing side.
00:36:11.920 --> 00:36:16.400
What are some things that you've been through that, like, man, I wish I'd known that before?
00:36:17.039 --> 00:36:20.320
Just some some little gold nuggets, maybe for our listeners.
00:36:20.639 --> 00:36:33.920
Yeah, I I think um on the brokerage side, I would say you're gonna meet people that don't have good intentions, that still wanna do transactions, but they're trying to kind of game the system a little bit.
00:36:34.480 --> 00:36:45.679
Um I think you gotta do a lot of transactions to see those situations flush out to learn lessons around people you do want to work with and who people you don't want to work with.
00:36:46.159 --> 00:36:53.280
Um, I think uh really having really close ties with lenders and other sort of allied partners.
00:36:53.679 --> 00:36:55.519
Vendor partners, so huge.
00:36:56.000 --> 00:37:05.360
Um you must have people approach you all the time now in terms of trying to earn your business, even though you've got robust relationships.
00:37:05.519 --> 00:37:05.679
Yeah.
00:37:06.239 --> 00:37:07.039
What does that look like?
00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:14.480
You know, I think it's uh I I I actually really enjoy that because it's more of um, hey, I get it.
00:37:14.639 --> 00:37:16.159
I get you're trying to grow your business.
00:37:16.320 --> 00:37:17.119
Totally understand.
00:37:17.280 --> 00:37:17.360
Right.
00:37:17.599 --> 00:37:20.480
And I and I'm and I'm into growing my business too.
00:37:20.639 --> 00:37:20.960
Yep.
00:37:21.119 --> 00:37:38.880
Um, yet I have a fiduciary duty to my clients um to know for a lender, actually, for in example for example, um, that that you are gonna be a great lender, lending partner for our buyer clients, for example.
00:37:39.119 --> 00:37:50.639
And I would say I need to see a lead from you first before I I'm willing to take my uh hard-earned um clients and and and so and so you know.
00:37:51.039 --> 00:37:55.760
Yeah, but you and you just showed them a path to here's here's how we get into business together.
00:37:56.000 --> 00:37:56.320
Yeah, exactly.
00:37:56.559 --> 00:37:57.039
You know what I mean?
00:37:57.199 --> 00:37:58.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:37:58.239 --> 00:38:07.440
And and and and I'm and and and just being, I think, of good integrity that you're gonna follow through and if and if they're gonna search something up, let's let's have a good experience, yeah.
00:38:07.599 --> 00:38:09.519
Um then yeah, let's let's give it a try.
00:38:09.599 --> 00:38:11.119
Let's let's do another one together.
00:38:11.360 --> 00:38:17.599
Um so uh and I also think you know you you connect with some people and not others too.
00:38:17.679 --> 00:38:21.119
So it yeah, that's a normal process that kind of sorts itself out.
00:38:21.360 --> 00:38:21.679
Yep.
00:38:21.920 --> 00:38:26.480
Um yeah, I think uh the allied partners is huge.
00:38:26.639 --> 00:38:27.519
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:38:27.760 --> 00:38:29.199
What about on the investing side?
00:38:29.280 --> 00:38:30.880
What have been would have been some of those?
00:38:30.960 --> 00:38:35.440
I mean, you already kind of foreshadowed a little bit, yeah, some things you didn't pull the trigger on.
00:38:35.840 --> 00:38:36.880
Yeah, yeah.
00:38:37.199 --> 00:38:48.239
Um I would say that the um I I did some partnerships because I didn't have enough cash to be doing more commercial at scale.
00:38:48.480 --> 00:38:50.559
Yeah, more of the commercial size.
00:38:51.119 --> 00:38:56.400
Um and I I think the the partnerships run their course.
00:38:57.039 --> 00:39:03.360
Um I I've I've heard the the sort of uh adage like yeah, partners are good for dancing.
00:39:04.159 --> 00:39:06.320
Uh but but that's it.
00:39:06.559 --> 00:39:06.800
Right.
00:39:06.960 --> 00:39:20.480
Um and I think I I I I think you can if you have open, good partnerships where you're talking constantly talking, good relationships, and you are constantly meeting and and what's what's changing in your life, like what you know, how do we how do we adjust it?
00:39:20.719 --> 00:39:21.599
Staying in tune.
00:39:21.840 --> 00:39:22.639
Yeah, exactly.
00:39:22.719 --> 00:39:26.960
I think that that's where you can keep things moving forward properly.
00:39:27.119 --> 00:39:27.360
Right.
00:39:27.519 --> 00:39:37.360
Um, you know, I had to unravel something with with another partner recently, and um that was a little bumpy, but we got through it, and you know, I'm in a better place for it.
00:39:37.519 --> 00:39:40.880
I hope he's in a better place, and yeah, uh just kind of moving on, honestly.
00:39:41.599 --> 00:39:45.840
Um so uh I think the partnerships are huge because people want to do bigger things.
00:39:45.920 --> 00:39:56.239
And I and I and I'd even say that it's probably more likely that more people go that way because prices are higher than what they were 15, 20 years ago.
00:39:56.320 --> 00:39:56.559
Right.
00:39:56.719 --> 00:39:58.480
And that's probably more of a reason.
00:39:58.800 --> 00:40:06.079
I can't do it myself, but if it's me and these two guys or these two gals, like, hey, collectively we can do this and get the benefit of a larger thing.
00:40:06.320 --> 00:40:06.719
You got it.
00:40:06.800 --> 00:40:11.119
Yeah, yeah, without having to maybe get irresponsible on the leverage side of it, right?
00:40:11.199 --> 00:40:13.119
We can we can bring a partnership into it.
00:40:13.280 --> 00:40:17.199
But yeah, I've got somebody I've worked with, Daniel, you know Daniel really well.
00:40:17.360 --> 00:40:20.800
We've been working together for probably close to a dozen years now.
00:40:20.880 --> 00:40:30.559
Yeah, and the thing I always say is even though we're almost exactly the same age, the least likely outcome of us working together is that we both retire on the same day.
00:40:30.719 --> 00:40:31.199
Yeah, right.
00:40:31.360 --> 00:40:34.880
Like somebody at some point's gonna leave somebody.
00:40:35.199 --> 00:40:36.719
Like it's just the nature of the beast.
00:40:36.800 --> 00:40:39.519
And the challenge is you gotta know that going into it.
00:40:39.679 --> 00:40:44.000
Like the fur, you know, it's like going into a marriage knowing you're gonna get divorced.
00:40:44.159 --> 00:40:48.559
Like, you know, which is hard, you know, knowing that that conversation's at the end of the rainbow.
00:40:48.639 --> 00:40:52.239
Yeah, um, but it's also allowed you to do some stuff.
00:40:52.800 --> 00:41:00.480
So just through that one, I was just saving, I was putting money away into another account, and so was able to essentially buy him out, right?
00:41:00.800 --> 00:41:14.480
You know, and keep the better asset that that really functions, it throws off quite a bit of cash, and and so you know, just fortunately I was I was smart enough to be putting money away, wasn't sure exactly what it was.
00:41:14.800 --> 00:41:34.480
And I do think that there's an aspect of um not knowing how things are gonna go, and so you you keep working and preparing for something to change that you don't know, but if you're working on yourself and you're funding whatever that future thing is, then it's not a big deal.
00:41:34.639 --> 00:41:34.880
Right.
00:41:35.039 --> 00:41:46.480
Then you can take action because you've been a good steward of the cash and the and the and the uh opportunity, the resources that you've been given till now.
00:41:46.880 --> 00:41:50.800
Um and so and I don't think that that's an easy thing to learn.
00:41:50.880 --> 00:41:57.920
I just think that if you can start that early, it compounds.
00:41:58.719 --> 00:42:00.159
Well, it's a delayed gratification.
00:42:00.320 --> 00:42:01.280
Yeah, the delayed gratification.
00:42:01.599 --> 00:42:02.079
You know what I mean?
00:42:02.159 --> 00:42:10.320
It's like you know, like the 30%, like you know, like the that muscle to go, okay, I'm gonna act like I only make 70% of what I'm making.
00:42:10.559 --> 00:42:16.559
You know, the other thing that jumped to mind was you were talking is when did you buy the condo, that initial condo?
00:42:16.639 --> 00:42:17.920
When when did you buy that?
00:42:18.239 --> 00:42:18.559
Ish.
00:42:19.119 --> 00:42:20.239
03, I think.
00:42:20.480 --> 00:42:22.960
So yeah, you were like a year in real estate, right?
00:42:23.039 --> 00:42:25.039
So you bought that in 03, right?
00:42:25.920 --> 00:42:35.360
When did you buy the house, the single family home for your family, which was kind of like the house, right?
00:42:35.440 --> 00:42:41.360
Because you you went through that, you went through a shared property with some buddies, you went yeah, uh 2015.
00:42:41.679 --> 00:42:42.639
2015.
00:42:42.800 --> 00:42:43.679
Yeah, yeah.
00:42:43.840 --> 00:42:51.119
So 12 years of owning real estate before you bought kind of like the house.
00:42:51.440 --> 00:42:51.679
Yeah.
00:42:51.920 --> 00:43:10.159
There's a great um uh Brian Baffini um was a uh a person that I followed that I I subscribed to his logical and um immigrant mindset approach to building a business.
00:43:10.880 --> 00:43:19.760
And um there's um you gotta go to stability first before you can step up to success, right?
00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:27.760
Before you can step up to um uh significance, yeah, where you're maybe uh donating more money.
00:43:28.000 --> 00:43:28.320
Right, right.
00:43:28.480 --> 00:43:33.039
And so the the so so I just relate that to people investing in real estate.
00:43:33.679 --> 00:43:35.039
Gotta have a stable base.
00:43:35.119 --> 00:43:35.280
Yeah.
00:43:35.440 --> 00:43:50.880
And so that's why I would always say to to anybody that I talk to nowadays, even it's like, look, buying some some pretty simple two, three, four, five unit assets, you know, residential, that's gonna just start creating creating time's on your side if you do.
00:43:51.280 --> 00:43:54.639
And that over time, yeah, built right, you know.
00:43:54.800 --> 00:43:56.880
Um, and I was always self-managing everything.
00:43:56.960 --> 00:43:59.760
I've got a good client of mine that I mean, he's doing that.
00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:01.840
And he's not even managing it.
00:44:02.079 --> 00:44:04.079
So all he's doing is the acquisition.
00:44:04.239 --> 00:44:04.559
Yeah.
00:44:04.719 --> 00:44:08.239
And then and then and there's a ton of work that goes on through that.
00:44:08.480 --> 00:44:11.599
Acquisition, fix it up, get it rented right.
00:44:13.199 --> 00:44:18.320
But once you do it, it should be on, it should be on autopilot at that point.
00:44:18.480 --> 00:44:29.920
So so it's I I think those real steps, and I I actually was just talking to my friend who I was telling you about about who's looking for a house for his family because he's moving out of the two unit that I sold him 15, 20 years ago.
00:44:30.320 --> 00:44:37.840
And I was trying to say to him, hey, I know you want this big, beautiful house now, but maybe there's a step between.
00:44:38.079 --> 00:44:38.639
Right.
00:44:38.880 --> 00:44:43.840
And this is even for someone who's who can go buy a million plus dollar home.
00:44:44.000 --> 00:44:44.239
Yeah.
00:44:44.480 --> 00:44:46.400
You know, I said, maybe there's a step between.
00:44:46.800 --> 00:44:47.440
Because we can.
00:44:47.679 --> 00:44:47.840
Yeah.
00:44:48.000 --> 00:44:50.960
I just say, like, maybe buy the$800,000 house, man.
00:44:51.039 --> 00:44:51.360
Like, yeah.
00:44:51.679 --> 00:44:55.599
And I know it's not like ideal, but maybe just kind of try it out.
00:44:56.000 --> 00:44:58.639
And because that's also way safer, too.
00:44:58.800 --> 00:44:58.960
Yeah.
00:44:59.119 --> 00:45:03.039
Because in Scarborough, an$800,000 house, there's more buyers for that.
00:45:03.280 --> 00:45:07.840
So if you need to transition from that point to something, it's it'll be easier.
00:45:08.159 --> 00:45:08.559
Correct.
00:45:08.800 --> 00:45:21.119
Um, so yeah, it's the reason I wanted to have the listener hear that because like I literally did the opposite and paid the price for years.
00:45:21.360 --> 00:45:33.760
You know, we moved back to Maine, it's where I grew up, but when I moved back and I was married and we were starting in real estate, we literally went from renting to building from scratch our dream home.
00:45:34.559 --> 00:45:35.119
Yeah.
00:45:35.360 --> 00:45:37.360
And you already know where that goes, right?
00:45:37.599 --> 00:45:43.199
So couldn't really afford it, overextended, wasn't stable, wasn't even stable in my career.
00:45:43.599 --> 00:45:50.719
And five, it took five years after selling the place to dig out of the financial hole, right?
00:45:51.119 --> 00:45:56.559
So that's nine years of what could have been compounding.
00:45:57.039 --> 00:46:03.679
Instead, it was just nine years of roller coaster to be coming out the other end basically at zero, starting fresh.
00:46:03.920 --> 00:46:13.519
And so I just want our listeners to hear like, be patient, be patient, you know, start smaller, right?
00:46:13.760 --> 00:46:26.719
Like you live on a little bit less, it will pay great dividends in the end, you know, because you know, again, we we're both there, we're both in houses that we really like, and we've got kids and you know, all the life stuff.
00:46:27.039 --> 00:46:32.239
Um, but one of those paths was a better path in terms of compounding.
00:46:32.320 --> 00:46:32.559
Right.
00:46:32.719 --> 00:46:33.280
It really was.
00:46:33.519 --> 00:46:33.679
Yeah.
00:46:33.920 --> 00:46:44.559
And I do think that the process of dreaming of what the house that you could build as an example could be later on, yeah, is actually a really cool process.
00:46:44.719 --> 00:46:45.360
Oh yeah.
00:46:45.679 --> 00:46:48.960
And but a lot of times people want to skip to that.
00:46:49.199 --> 00:46:49.920
Of course.
00:46:50.239 --> 00:47:00.000
And and I think that uh I'm actually going through this process with my wife right now, because we're still planning our when our kids leave where we would what we'll do.
00:47:00.159 --> 00:47:00.320
Yeah.
00:47:00.559 --> 00:47:02.000
Which I've already mapped out.
00:47:02.159 --> 00:47:02.400
Right.
00:47:02.559 --> 00:47:07.440
And yet we're still envisioning and and dreaming about what else that could be.
00:47:07.599 --> 00:47:07.760
Right.
00:47:07.920 --> 00:47:09.679
And I'm trying to get her to think about that.
00:47:09.760 --> 00:47:12.719
And this is something something not natural that people don't do naturally.
00:47:13.119 --> 00:47:14.960
That's six, eight years from now for you guys.
00:47:15.119 --> 00:47:15.440
Exactly.
00:47:15.599 --> 00:47:17.440
That's how far down the track you're looking.
00:47:18.000 --> 00:47:18.800
A hundred percent.
00:47:18.880 --> 00:47:20.320
Yeah, I'm 10 years ahead.
00:47:20.960 --> 00:47:24.320
I'm 10 years ahead of thinking about that and planning it.
00:47:24.400 --> 00:47:30.639
And we talked about today and you know, uh this weekend, and we I was like, what Beach House, what do you what are you gonna do?
00:47:30.719 --> 00:47:32.480
You know, and I'm like, I'm like, it's all good.
00:47:32.559 --> 00:47:34.880
Just like just be freeform about it.
00:47:34.960 --> 00:47:38.239
It doesn't need to be like we don't need to know right now.
00:47:38.400 --> 00:47:38.559
Right.
00:47:38.719 --> 00:47:44.559
But I think but I want her vision of that because I want to, because I'll figure out the path.
00:47:44.719 --> 00:47:44.880
Right.
00:47:45.039 --> 00:47:51.039
You'll map to if if that's what she wants and I want, yeah, then I can figure out the path.
00:47:51.199 --> 00:47:51.280
Right.
00:47:51.440 --> 00:47:53.119
I just I don't know how it's gonna go.
00:47:53.280 --> 00:47:55.679
And also too, uh real estate cyclical.
00:47:56.000 --> 00:48:04.239
And so if you think in those longer 10-year terms, you can be way more strategic about when you're purchasing and when you're selling.
00:48:04.480 --> 00:48:05.280
Correct.
00:48:05.760 --> 00:48:07.519
And we did that.
00:48:07.679 --> 00:48:13.360
We did that in our current home, we've done that on the all the previous ones we basically we just never sold.
00:48:13.440 --> 00:48:13.519
Yeah.
00:48:13.840 --> 00:48:16.800
Just because Dottie gave me some really great advice early on.
00:48:17.199 --> 00:48:17.360
Yeah.
00:48:17.760 --> 00:48:24.719
Like, Chris, if I had only held on to the real estate that I bought early on, the stuff I already bought.
00:48:24.960 --> 00:48:30.320
Well, and I think the kicker of that is she said, I would have probably been in the same place.
00:48:31.199 --> 00:48:42.159
So I think about so you Oh, in other words, all the buying and selling didn't really get her any further ahead than if she had just bought an L, bought an L, bought an L.
00:48:43.920 --> 00:48:51.760
With a whole lot more, a whole lot less stress, a whole lot less Yeah, because every transaction is ripe with uncertainty.
00:48:52.079 --> 00:48:53.440
It's yeah, it's a ton.
00:48:53.519 --> 00:48:53.679
Yeah.
00:48:53.840 --> 00:48:56.559
And you see some some people do it with ease.
00:48:56.719 --> 00:48:57.039
Yeah.
00:48:57.199 --> 00:48:58.000
But I don't know.
00:48:58.079 --> 00:49:00.159
I I I maybe they just hide it better.
00:49:00.320 --> 00:49:01.280
Yeah, I don't know.
00:49:01.360 --> 00:49:10.639
I've been through enough transactions brokerage-wise, right, and personally to know that it's not all that clean and and there's always something.
00:49:10.719 --> 00:49:11.199
Yeah, yeah.
00:49:11.519 --> 00:49:12.239
Always something.
00:49:12.400 --> 00:49:12.719
Yeah.
00:49:12.880 --> 00:49:14.960
And that was yeah, that was a lesson for me.
00:49:15.039 --> 00:49:26.239
After going through that real big mistake on our first home, we literally went to the advice that you were just giving your buddy there for Scarborough.
00:49:26.320 --> 00:49:34.639
Like, I went and bought the most generic first-time homebuyer home I could possibly.
00:49:34.960 --> 00:49:40.320
It was a three-bed, one and a half bath cape with a one-car garage on a little postage stamp lot.
00:49:40.400 --> 00:49:43.920
And it was like, the reason I bought it was not because we loved it.
00:49:44.159 --> 00:49:47.760
We bought it because we know it doesn't matter what market we're in.
00:49:47.840 --> 00:49:52.159
Yeah, this is a house that we'll sell and we'll be able to protect the asset and all that kind of stuff.
00:49:52.400 --> 00:50:04.480
And then when we purchase, we kind of timed the cycle there too, where it's like we were shopping when there's two feet of snow on the ground, yeah, knowing let's get it under contract before the snow melts, because there's less buyers right now.
00:50:04.800 --> 00:50:06.320
I'm always buying in the winter.
00:50:06.480 --> 00:50:07.039
Yeah.
00:50:07.280 --> 00:50:07.599
Yeah.
00:50:07.920 --> 00:50:11.199
I always buy in the winter.
00:50:11.440 --> 00:50:11.760
Yeah.
00:50:11.920 --> 00:50:13.360
I'm shopping all the time though.
00:50:13.519 --> 00:50:13.679
Yeah.
00:50:13.840 --> 00:50:14.719
I'm looking at it all the time.
00:50:14.960 --> 00:50:16.559
Well, that's the market knowledge, right?
00:50:16.639 --> 00:50:17.920
You're shopping all the time.
00:50:18.239 --> 00:50:21.280
So you're always on tune with what's going on in the market, right?
00:50:21.760 --> 00:50:26.960
And you're thinking, if you're thinking ahead, even if you're thinking two years ahead, let's say you're envisioning two two years ahead.
00:50:27.440 --> 00:50:29.440
You can you can be like paying attention.
00:50:29.760 --> 00:50:34.960
My wife wants a a beach house that doesn't need to be right on the beach, but beach neighborhood.
00:50:36.800 --> 00:50:38.400
I'm like, well, I can find that.
00:50:39.119 --> 00:50:41.599
I can find that, I'll find the shittiest place.
00:50:42.800 --> 00:50:45.199
And we're gonna have to redo it, but that's okay.
00:50:45.440 --> 00:50:45.840
That's okay.
00:50:46.159 --> 00:50:46.639
That's okay.
00:50:46.719 --> 00:50:55.360
Like and so I think if you just kind of can get into that mindset of how you can develop, like, look, these are investment opportunities.
00:50:55.519 --> 00:50:55.760
Right.
00:50:56.159 --> 00:50:57.679
It's the land you're buying.
00:50:57.760 --> 00:51:03.440
Yeah, the building is uh something you can live in, something that you can use, something that you can rent.
00:51:03.599 --> 00:51:03.840
Right.
00:51:04.079 --> 00:51:07.760
It's not it's not everything, like it it's the land.
00:51:08.000 --> 00:51:11.039
So, you know, buy something safe that has upside potential.
00:51:11.119 --> 00:51:20.880
And I think I think specifically right now with what's going on with allowing Everhome uh to add an ADU accessory dwelling unit, that is massive.
00:51:22.000 --> 00:51:35.280
And um particularly in these other communities, other neighborhoods, I think if you can add a little one-bedroom apartment that you can rent out, I'll rent that to my kid.
00:51:35.519 --> 00:51:36.000
Correct.
00:51:36.239 --> 00:51:36.880
You know what I mean?
00:51:37.039 --> 00:51:47.840
Like when they're coming back, and you know, I I who knows what's happening actually then for me, but but seriously, oh yeah, that is I'm already envisioning that with our house.
00:51:48.000 --> 00:52:08.800
Like there's two different versions with the house we live in that when we have no kids, like, oh, that could be a studio apartment, or we could re-jigger the whole first floor where no, actually, there's a a two or three-bedroom apartment upstairs, and we're, you know, now we're first floor living, you know, in our 60s, 70s, that kind of a thing.
00:52:09.039 --> 00:52:13.440
Like, oh yeah, like that that's that's exactly how my head spins all the time now.
00:52:13.599 --> 00:52:15.039
Yep, yep, yep, exactly.
00:52:15.199 --> 00:52:16.000
I love it, I love it.
00:52:16.239 --> 00:52:18.239
Chris, thank you so much for coming in.
00:52:18.400 --> 00:52:20.559
It's such a great conversation.
00:52:20.719 --> 00:52:41.679
Um, for me, it's one of those you're one of the people in real estate who I've come to admire so much because you got into this career, you looked long term, you never shied away from the work, and you took a couple of very simple pieces of advice and you lived them out.
00:52:41.920 --> 00:52:42.639
You know what I mean?
00:52:42.719 --> 00:52:43.840
You just lived them out.
00:52:44.000 --> 00:52:55.599
Like, I'm gonna live off of less, I'm gonna save, I'm gonna get to know the market, I'm gonna get in investing in real estate early, and that's gonna compound over time.
00:52:55.920 --> 00:53:00.239
And how do you mind sharing with the viewers how the everybody listen how old you are?
00:53:00.559 --> 00:53:01.199
46.
00:53:01.440 --> 00:53:01.920
46.
00:53:02.159 --> 00:53:05.840
So you're not 72 finally getting to this point.
00:53:06.000 --> 00:53:32.400
Like we're all gonna be 46 quickly, you know, and I would say, like, just to put it in real terms, it was probably about 20 years of working regularly and diligently to build something because it was about my early 40s where I felt started to feel the tailwind that I had created, and which was awkward, honestly.
00:53:32.559 --> 00:53:33.280
It felt awkward.
00:53:33.599 --> 00:53:34.880
I remember we talked about that.
00:53:35.199 --> 00:53:39.760
Yeah, it felt awkward because I was just like, I don't know, things it's it's easier.
00:53:39.840 --> 00:53:41.039
I don't know what's going on.
00:53:41.119 --> 00:53:48.480
Like it just it felt different, and um and the cool thing is is I don't think that that's like the end all.
00:53:48.559 --> 00:54:00.239
Like I like I like I can I want to keep going because I can keep on building and and there's legacy things here from from my family um that I'm excited about, but also um I just love the hunt about it.
00:54:00.320 --> 00:54:02.000
Yeah, um doing it.
00:54:02.159 --> 00:54:05.920
I love sharing it with people, and I love helping my friends and family.
00:54:06.000 --> 00:54:13.840
Yeah, um, and so yeah, it's a it's a good um skill set and education that you that I got really early on.
00:54:13.920 --> 00:54:15.840
So um I'm happy happy to share.
00:54:15.920 --> 00:54:17.760
Thanks for having me on the on the podcast.
00:54:18.239 --> 00:54:18.559
Thank you.
00:54:18.719 --> 00:54:21.199
Thanks everybody for tuning in, and we'll catch you on the next one.
00:54:21.280 --> 00:54:22.079
Bye-bye.