The Practical Workspace World | John Sowash talks Google for Education that actually works

WEBVTT
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Welcome to Integrate This, your go -to EdTech
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podcast where curiosity meets classroom innovation.
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Join your hosts, David Berner and Jeremy Mikla,
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as we explore the rapidly evolving world of educational
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technology. From game -changing tools to insightful
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conversations with today's top EdTech voices,
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we're here to help educators stay informed, inspired,
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and ready to innovate. So tune in, level up,
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and let's integrate this. Welcome to the Integrate
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This EdTech podcast. I'm Jeremy Mikla. I'm joined
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by co -host David Berner. And our guest today
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we're happy to bring on board is John Sowash.
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John is definitely a well -known name, I think,
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in the space around the Google Workspace environment
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for sure. But I know he's got a lot of great
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ideas and a lot of great insight into other topics
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that we're going to dive into here as well today.
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And John, we want to be... honoring your time
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here today. And we want to make sure that we
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can get into some of these conversations that
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we have planned on our document that we have
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going. But we do like to start out with kind
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of turning it over to our guests. Tell us a little
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bit about your background. How did you move into
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this educational technology space to the point
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where you have your own blog, your own newsletter,
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your own podcast about the Chromebook classroom?
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Yeah, great to be with you guys. Thanks so much
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for having me on. My journey is kind of an accidental
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one. This was not a well planned out process.
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It just kind of happened and you step through
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the doors that open. I started in the classroom.
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I live in Michigan. taught high school science
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in the greater Detroit area. I did the life science.
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So I'm the guy responsible for making the entire
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school stink in the springs or dissections. I
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did biology, anatomy and physiology, AP, bio,
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health, PE, all the kind of life science things.
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And then I was actually a high school principal
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there for a couple of years as well. So did both
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classroom and administration. And then all throughout
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that time, I've always been interested in technology,
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so I would just kind of dabble. And, you know,
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this was back, gentlemen, in the olden days,
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ancient history, just after the stone tablets
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back when we were just getting Wi -Fi into school
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buildings. So I distinctly remember getting a
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couple laptops. That was the first classroom
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to get like a mounted permanent overhead projector.
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You had to check them out before. Um, and I was
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always very interested. So just kind of, you
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know, dabbled and explored and probably one of
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the most important things that I did was start
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a blog. Um, and this was back in the blogger
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days back when blogging was cool. I still blog.
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I don't know. You guys blog, nobody blogs anymore.
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Um, not much. Yeah, I did dabble with it once
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upon a time, too, and actually did have my own
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registered domain, but, you know, that sure has
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been a while. I think people now, don't you think,
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maybe prefer a little bit more of this audio
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-video format versus the written word? It definitely
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seems so. I'm not convinced myself, and I'm happy
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to share my process, but I've got to write stuff
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before I can record. So for me, writing the blog
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post is kind of like the first step to the other
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things. I'm so glad I started that blog, which
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is really just a learning journal. I mean, I
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shared the things that worked and things that
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didn't. But it really was just a great way to
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reflect on teaching practice and sharing with
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others and connect with other people. It's great.
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So that was kind of the catalyst. And then fast
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forward like Seven years later, I made the decision
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to leave the classroom and do this full time.
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It's kind of a bittersweet moment. The position
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that I had was being eliminated. So I was either
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find a different position or try to go out on
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my own. And I was like, well, we'll give this
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a shot. So I did that. And that was 12 years
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ago. So for the last 12 years, I've been full
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time. helping teachers and students use Google
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tools in the classroom from Chromebooks to Drive
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and classroom to now the latest which I'm sure
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we'll get into Gemini and AI Yeah, for sure.
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Do you think did that moment where your position
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gets eliminated? Did that represent a defining
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moment where you say I either had to go all in
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to what I'm doing or I've got to carve myself
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another path Yeah, I mean it definitely was so
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I mean, in case anybody's wondering, there's
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never a good time to quit a job that pays you
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every every two weeks. No one ever is like, oh,
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let's do this other thing. So not having to make
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that decision, you know, being kind of forced
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into it. You know, it's like, OK, well, if it's
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either go out and hit the job market or go on
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your own, I'll pick the the latter. I've always
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been entrepreneurial. I mean, since I was like
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eight years old, I've been starting businesses
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and doing things. So it worked for me. Like I
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never try to talk anybody into being an entrepreneur.
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And people like to say, oh, that's not, it's
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not fun. It's miserable. Now I wouldn't have
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it any other way, but I mean, you are trading
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security and, you know, stability for... chaos,
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but ultimate opportunity. So you have to have
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a strong intestinal fortitude to take that step.
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You know, one of the things that David and I,
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we've even had conversations with each other
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is like, do you feel like you've ever gotten
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to that point where if you're not in constant
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access to a classroom full of kids, do you feel
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like you lose touch with what it's like to be
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in the trenches? you know, with the teachers
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and experience, because I know in when I moved
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from the classroom to the position that I'm in
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now, about five years ago, you know, that was
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one of the concerns that I had before I took
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the leap was, am I am I ready to put myself in
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that position where I can still speak with some
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sort of relevance and authority, you know what
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I mean, in front of that group of teachers? Yeah,
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no, I know, I know what you mean. And it's certainly
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something that's on my mind. I have a few ways
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that I can continue to do that. I mean I have
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been an instructional coach for some local districts
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and you know I get to go into classrooms from
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time to time. I also have five children of my
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own so they're a good testing ground. I mean
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I've got elementary, middle, and high school
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students I see every single day so that helps
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as well. I feel I have a very good pulse on the
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what it means to be a teacher. The part that
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has shifted a lot, which is very hard to put
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your finger on, there's definitely been a shift
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in kind of the attitude of students since COVID.
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And I don't know if it was COVID in that whole
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situation or the new technology coming out, but
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there's definitely been a shift in just the attitude
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towards education in general, which I do legitimately
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um feel concerned for teachers because that's
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a tough attitude to combat that in large part
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is not really under their control. Yeah and John
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as you're looking I know you had mentioned uh
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earlier about like your the blog and how as you
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approach things you're scripting things out to
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help first kind of give you some direction as
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to what you're going to do but We we mentioned
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a couple different things ways of delivering
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content. Is there what what things have you found
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through your time with your with your website
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and the different things that you've done with
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like tutorials and sessions and like newsletter
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type things? What what have you found has been
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really successful with reaching teachers and
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getting them engaged into the content that you're
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trying to show them? Yeah, I spent a lot of time
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doing this You know the formal term would be
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like content marketing. You know my goal is to
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provide as much free helpful content as possible
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and I Have it has been shown that over the last
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10 years If I do that enough, there's enough
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opportunities that pay the bills and keep the
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lights on. So I really don't have to sell per
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se. I just try to provide helpful information
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and people find me. Every person has their favorite.
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I mean, when you talk about social media platforms,
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each one has its own personality and its own
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kind of subculture. I mean, it is pretty incredible.
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I mean, I can go as deep into this as you want,
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but I mean, I have a whole content strategy where
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I develop a long form piece of content and that
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splinters off into short form social media posts,
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reels, images, like it fragments off into all
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those things. You never have to worry about creating
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too much content because no one sees it all.
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The people on Facebook are not the people on
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Twitter. The people on Twitter are not the people
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on YouTube. And so every platform, every avenue
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has its own kind of market and stream. And you,
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yeah, you just create for that that thing. There
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are certain things that I'm better at than others.
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I'm not a TikTok person. Really, I'm not a huge
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fan of the platform. So I have an account, but
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don't follow me because I never log in. But honestly,
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and this is going to sound super old, but Facebook,
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I mean, I get the most engagement from Facebook.
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Now I can look at the demographics of all of
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my platforms and I can tell you exactly who's
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on which one. So, you know, Facebook skews older
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and by older, I mean like 40 plus, which is me.
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You know, your TikTok is going to skew much younger,
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obviously. So the answer unfortunately is they're
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all valuable. You do as many as you feel you
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can. You can't do all of them. You will have
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to make decisions, but absolutely very important
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to create long -form content, short -form content,
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text only, image only, because everybody has
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a preference about what they like. You mentioned
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that content that you make. How does that help
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transition into some of the larger things that
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you do? If you're looking at professional development
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opportunities, webinars, those type of things,
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because then you're your movie from some of those
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social platforms into like real maybe in person
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or maybe you have a large webinar of people that
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you're engaging with. How do you make that transition
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usually? Yeah, so there's something I learned
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a long time ago that has been true for a long
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time, which is people pay for packaging. Everything
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that I say, I give away for free. The trick or
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what's different, like if if you want me to give
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a you know very kind of organized sequential
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look at something you're gonna have to hire me
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to come into your district now every single thing
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that i'm gonna say during that is available online
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but you're gonna have to go watch that youtube
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video and read that blog post and this fate like
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you'd have to piece it together which you could
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do but it wouldn't be terribly fun um so yeah
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like everything that i do is can be broken down
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into bigger smaller chunks um I enjoyed watching
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comedians lately. A couple of my favorites are
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John Crist, he's hilarious, and Nate Bargazzi.
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Had a chance to see both of them live. I would
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say that a lot of what I do, and probably what
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you guys do as well, is very similar to stand
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-up comics. unfortunately neither of us are as
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funny as either of those guys and we certainly
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don't make as much money as those guys but all
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a comic is doing is making an observation testing
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out a bit which might range from like two minutes
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to 20 minutes Then they do a whole bunch of those
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and they stitch those together into an hour -long
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special or whatnot So that's really what all
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I'm doing like I'm seeing this cool thing that
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Google has create I'm like, oh I could use that
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as a language arts teacher do such and such Well,
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that might be a two minute a three minute thing
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and I'll take this thing for math teachers so
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you're just kind of assembling those pieces together
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and again, it could be a 10 minute YouTube video.
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It could be a hour long webinar or it could be
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a three or six hour PD session. The content can
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be kind of assembled almost like Legos. If you,
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you know, if you do it well and you have good
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handle on the content. What is your thoughts
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on as far as like when we talk about meaningful
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tech use in the classroom and so that it has,
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you know, something like pedagogy first. and
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integrate the tech. So do you have kind of a
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side question for you here? Do you feel like
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because of all the different short form things
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that are out there, if a lot of teachers are
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if most of their engagement is coming from, say,
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something they see on like Instagram or any any
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other platforms that we mentioned, TikTok, whatever,
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do you feel like that does? a disservice to teachers
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when they're trying to implement things because
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they see something but maybe not in its full
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effect or in consideration of like a full pedagogical
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context. Do you feel like it does a disservice
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or does it maybe help with if you go and do a
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live session with teachers, it gives them, they
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maybe have had a little bit of background. What's
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your thoughts on that? I'm not a huge fan of
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the short term content. I mean, I scroll through
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all the time. I couldn't tell you a single one
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of the reels that I saw yesterday. I really struggled
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with the short form content for professional
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development because the algorithms are so heavily
00:15:06.799 --> 00:15:09.759
weighted towards just entertainment. It's like,
00:15:09.820 --> 00:15:11.740
oh, that was super funny. Like all the sketches
00:15:11.740 --> 00:15:13.100
and whatnot. And they're great. I love them.
00:15:13.120 --> 00:15:16.679
But It's I mean it's so jarring if you're scrolling
00:15:16.679 --> 00:15:18.639
through a bunch of funny content And then you
00:15:18.639 --> 00:15:21.080
see me with a you know tutorial on how to create
00:15:21.080 --> 00:15:23.399
a better rubric through Google Classroom like
00:15:23.399 --> 00:15:27.299
no Thanks, give me give me the you know the sketches
00:15:27.299 --> 00:15:30.039
again Now maybe that's my fault. I need to come
00:15:30.039 --> 00:15:32.320
up with more creative ways to talk about rubrics.
00:15:32.379 --> 00:15:36.460
I'm not sure But you got to meet people where
00:15:36.460 --> 00:15:38.620
they're at. I mean, I dabble with it. I'm always
00:15:38.620 --> 00:15:41.080
trying to find a better way to communicate. But
00:15:41.080 --> 00:15:43.539
yes, I absolutely believe that you are missing
00:15:43.539 --> 00:15:46.139
a lot of the context. People see a lot of my
00:15:46.139 --> 00:15:48.840
content and they think that I'm just a gung -ho
00:15:48.840 --> 00:15:52.000
all tech all the time. I'm not. I'm not into
00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:54.759
the paperless classroom. I'm not into using Chromebooks
00:15:54.759 --> 00:15:57.440
every day. I'm not into giving AI to every kid
00:15:57.440 --> 00:16:01.220
because they can. But those are nuances that
00:16:01.220 --> 00:16:04.960
take time to unpack and explain. And that's where
00:16:04.960 --> 00:16:06.519
you have a longer form. I mean, conversation
00:16:06.519 --> 00:16:09.399
like this, podcasting, is a great way to unpack
00:16:09.399 --> 00:16:12.600
that. I have one more question for you real quick.
00:16:13.759 --> 00:16:16.480
Jeremy and I do a lot of trainings, too. And
00:16:16.480 --> 00:16:18.919
I'm wondering what your thoughts are on, if you
00:16:18.919 --> 00:16:20.779
go and do a training for, say, a whole school
00:16:20.779 --> 00:16:26.159
staff, how do you combat some of the, like, if
00:16:26.159 --> 00:16:31.330
teachers are overwhelmed, What's your tips behind
00:16:31.330 --> 00:16:35.669
that? Or maybe even just touching on, you have
00:16:35.669 --> 00:16:38.730
a pretty large room of staff with a lot of different
00:16:38.730 --> 00:16:41.990
learning abilities and in different places as
00:16:41.990 --> 00:16:44.009
far as what they might know on a particular topic.
00:16:44.370 --> 00:16:45.850
Let's say it's Google Classroom or something
00:16:45.850 --> 00:16:48.870
like that. What do you do typically with those?
00:16:49.029 --> 00:16:51.309
What are your go -tos for that type of situation?
00:16:51.919 --> 00:16:54.899
Well, I'll be very honest. My least favorite
00:16:54.899 --> 00:16:59.539
scenario is the beginning of the year, all day,
00:16:59.940 --> 00:17:02.759
all staff PD session. That's like two days before
00:17:02.759 --> 00:17:05.920
the first day of school. That's an absolute recipe
00:17:05.920 --> 00:17:08.519
for disaster. Now, I understand that you don't
00:17:08.519 --> 00:17:11.640
always have control over those dynamics, but
00:17:11.640 --> 00:17:14.640
that is the worst possible time to do professional
00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:20.019
development. It's hard. I mean, just be honest.
00:17:21.560 --> 00:17:23.900
I'm not there, like if you're the PE teacher
00:17:23.900 --> 00:17:25.680
and you have to be there, and we're talking about
00:17:25.680 --> 00:17:27.599
Google Classroom, I'd be like, hey man, this
00:17:27.599 --> 00:17:31.180
really isn't the thing that you need to do. I'm
00:17:31.180 --> 00:17:33.599
not going to bother you. You know, if you have
00:17:33.599 --> 00:17:35.900
other things you need to go for it because you
00:17:35.900 --> 00:17:38.539
know, you're you're a subject better than better
00:17:38.539 --> 00:17:43.119
than me. My ideal would be to provide more just
00:17:43.119 --> 00:17:46.480
in time professional development where I'm available.
00:17:46.480 --> 00:17:49.680
And as a teacher has a need, I step in and I
00:17:49.680 --> 00:17:51.779
assist them with that need. That is the most
00:17:51.779 --> 00:17:54.480
effective. Now it's it's a little more time consuming.
00:17:55.519 --> 00:17:58.160
That's why I do like all my little tips and tricks
00:17:58.160 --> 00:18:02.839
type content. because I'm hoping that, oh, I
00:18:02.839 --> 00:18:04.980
have this need and I remember this thing, you
00:18:04.980 --> 00:18:08.839
know, it fills that gap. And that's where just
00:18:08.839 --> 00:18:11.960
kind of your quick monthly newsletters, what
00:18:11.960 --> 00:18:16.359
are the tech on the loo, you know, the potty
00:18:16.359 --> 00:18:19.839
PDs, things that, you know, that kind of stuff,
00:18:19.880 --> 00:18:22.339
I think can be useful. And then people reach
00:18:22.339 --> 00:18:24.359
out if they have the need for that particular
00:18:24.359 --> 00:18:29.910
thing. One of the avenues that you've gone down,
00:18:30.069 --> 00:18:32.650
and I'm not trying to put you into a box here,
00:18:32.990 --> 00:18:37.309
right? But when you got your content is. packaged
00:18:37.309 --> 00:18:40.430
around a Chromebook classroom. Obviously, Google
00:18:40.430 --> 00:18:43.450
is in the Google workspace for education domain
00:18:43.450 --> 00:18:46.130
is pretty integral to the types of things that
00:18:46.130 --> 00:18:48.029
you do and the types of stuff that you share.
00:18:48.410 --> 00:18:51.089
So my question is, you know, like, what's the
00:18:51.089 --> 00:18:54.789
draw towards Google? Why is that the avenue that,
00:18:54.789 --> 00:18:56.829
you know, a lot of teachers go down and a lot
00:18:56.829 --> 00:19:00.009
of schools go down? Is it I mean, is it is it
00:19:00.009 --> 00:19:01.930
just convenience or is there something deeper,
00:19:01.950 --> 00:19:04.690
more powerful there? I mean, for me, that's what
00:19:04.690 --> 00:19:07.430
I was doing in the classroom and it was the most
00:19:07.430 --> 00:19:13.589
effective. So again, when I was teaching Gmail,
00:19:14.069 --> 00:19:16.609
Gmail accounts for schools were brand new thing.
00:19:17.230 --> 00:19:20.289
There were no Chromebooks didn't exist yet. We
00:19:20.289 --> 00:19:22.849
actually were one -to -one with iPads, you know,
00:19:22.970 --> 00:19:24.609
towards the end of my time in the classroom.
00:19:24.650 --> 00:19:27.470
And we were thrilled to have them, but they did
00:19:27.470 --> 00:19:31.089
not work well. And just the collaboration aspect
00:19:31.089 --> 00:19:35.309
like, One iPad is great. 300 iPads were a nightmare.
00:19:37.170 --> 00:19:39.970
And there was also, I remember when Google Classroom
00:19:39.970 --> 00:19:43.750
came out. So just the mechanism, like we had
00:19:43.750 --> 00:19:45.869
to make that shift from going to the copier and
00:19:45.869 --> 00:19:49.250
running off copies for everybody. There was no
00:19:49.250 --> 00:19:54.130
digital method of making a digital document for
00:19:54.130 --> 00:19:57.130
30 kids. It didn't exist. Like you had to manually.
00:19:57.710 --> 00:20:00.730
And so when Google started coming out, like Oh,
00:20:00.750 --> 00:20:03.109
they actually kind of get what this is like.
00:20:03.650 --> 00:20:06.309
They're understanding the process that teachers
00:20:06.309 --> 00:20:08.910
are using, and they're making it easier for us.
00:20:09.890 --> 00:20:14.089
And I did a lot of iPad work at the time. And
00:20:14.089 --> 00:20:16.049
eventually, I just said, you know what? I'm going
00:20:16.049 --> 00:20:20.930
to focus in on Google. And again, from a business
00:20:20.930 --> 00:20:23.549
perspective, niche down is always a recommendation.
00:20:23.750 --> 00:20:25.789
It's better to be the foremost expert on a really
00:20:25.789 --> 00:20:28.799
small thing than, you know, Dabble in a whole
00:20:28.799 --> 00:20:31.460
bunch of things. So I went all in on Google.
00:20:31.799 --> 00:20:35.240
I am using iPad in years now And again, I'm not
00:20:35.240 --> 00:20:37.799
anti iPad. That's just not my thing There's plenty
00:20:37.799 --> 00:20:39.920
of people who are out there doing it or Microsoft
00:20:39.920 --> 00:20:43.900
or whatever So for me, it just worked Free was
00:20:43.900 --> 00:20:47.539
always good, too. It's hard to not quite the
00:20:47.539 --> 00:20:52.339
same today as it was but pretty close But I remember
00:20:52.339 --> 00:20:56.299
the days exactly very vividly when our tech director
00:20:56.299 --> 00:20:58.380
when I was in the classroom came in and said
00:20:58.380 --> 00:21:00.799
to the in a staff meeting it probably was like
00:21:00.799 --> 00:21:03.539
at the beginning of the year and had said we're
00:21:03.539 --> 00:21:07.940
moving from this old email system to Gmail and
00:21:07.940 --> 00:21:11.160
all of you are going to now have Gmail emails
00:21:11.160 --> 00:21:14.440
and you know everyone is going to just like jump
00:21:14.440 --> 00:21:17.750
on board and wow, that is the worst way to lose
00:21:17.750 --> 00:21:21.549
your entire staff is just is to do that very
00:21:21.549 --> 00:21:25.269
thing. So, you know, definitely is something
00:21:25.269 --> 00:21:28.829
I recall. And I also recall that the days of
00:21:28.829 --> 00:21:31.329
the early one to one iPads, because our school
00:21:31.329 --> 00:21:34.730
was also a pretty early adopter of those. And
00:21:34.730 --> 00:21:36.490
the principal had come to me and said, you're
00:21:36.490 --> 00:21:38.190
going to lead the charge of the teachers and
00:21:38.190 --> 00:21:42.529
get them to do this. And I remember trying things
00:21:42.529 --> 00:21:46.779
like Edmoto. even playing around with Moodle,
00:21:46.779 --> 00:21:48.539
you know, back in the day and you had to have
00:21:48.539 --> 00:21:51.619
a different Moodle server to be able to kind
00:21:51.619 --> 00:21:53.880
of like schedule out and send out assignments
00:21:53.880 --> 00:21:57.180
of, you know, a PDF to kids that they could then
00:21:57.180 --> 00:22:00.279
have their own copy of, right? And it was very
00:22:00.279 --> 00:22:02.259
cumbersome and very difficult. And then Google
00:22:02.259 --> 00:22:05.420
comes around and does things like making doc
00:22:05.420 --> 00:22:08.220
shareable and send them out so that every student
00:22:08.220 --> 00:22:12.220
can have their own copy, right? And so they started
00:22:12.220 --> 00:22:15.359
then, I think, from there, developing the whole
00:22:15.359 --> 00:22:18.819
suite of different tools. And I know from my
00:22:18.819 --> 00:22:22.059
own experience, one of the traps that I tended
00:22:22.059 --> 00:22:26.819
to fall into was, and I'm glad I've learned from
00:22:26.819 --> 00:22:29.000
this today, but was to start putting the tool
00:22:29.000 --> 00:22:32.000
first. But that causes a lot of problems. Why
00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:35.200
is it much more important to put a learning objective
00:22:35.200 --> 00:22:38.190
out there in front of or a learning target in
00:22:38.190 --> 00:22:39.710
front of the tool that you're going to try to
00:22:39.710 --> 00:22:44.289
match it with, even if it's a Google tool? I
00:22:44.289 --> 00:22:48.710
totally agree. I do feel that we've kind of maybe
00:22:48.710 --> 00:22:53.589
passed over that issue. I mean, I remember probably,
00:22:53.589 --> 00:22:58.740
you know, 2000. 17, 18, 19, you'd go to any tech
00:22:58.740 --> 00:23:01.500
conference and you'd go to the, you know, 45
00:23:01.500 --> 00:23:05.920
tools, 65 tools in 30 minutes. And everybody
00:23:05.920 --> 00:23:09.059
wanted a tool for everything today. I actually
00:23:09.059 --> 00:23:11.480
almost think it's the opposite. When you say,
00:23:11.660 --> 00:23:13.359
Hey, there's this really cool tool. Maybe you
00:23:13.359 --> 00:23:15.960
should check out. Everybody's like, Oh, not another
00:23:15.960 --> 00:23:19.740
one. I don't want to log in or set it up or figure
00:23:19.740 --> 00:23:22.259
it out. I, that's more of the sense I'm getting
00:23:22.259 --> 00:23:25.910
now. Um, but you're a hundred percent. Right,
00:23:25.910 --> 00:23:28.730
you can't just go to the next shiny object. Now
00:23:28.730 --> 00:23:30.650
we are doing a little bit of that right now in
00:23:30.650 --> 00:23:34.269
the AI world. Because I mean, there's, you can't
00:23:34.269 --> 00:23:36.569
throw a rock without hitting a new AI company
00:23:36.569 --> 00:23:40.869
right now. And a lot of them, you know, are all
00:23:40.869 --> 00:23:44.190
the same. So be interesting to see how that all
00:23:44.190 --> 00:23:46.130
shakes out. But absolutely, like, what are you
00:23:46.130 --> 00:23:48.430
trying to accomplish? What is the fastest way
00:23:48.430 --> 00:23:50.990
to get there? But I wouldn't even say EdTech
00:23:50.990 --> 00:23:54.230
tool, I would just say a pencil is the best way
00:23:54.230 --> 00:23:56.500
to do it then. goodness sakes, make your life
00:23:56.500 --> 00:24:00.380
easy. Just write it down. You know, pick the
00:24:00.380 --> 00:24:04.359
best tool to get the job done. So now I'm setting
00:24:04.359 --> 00:24:06.799
this up maybe a little bit intentionally here,
00:24:06.880 --> 00:24:09.980
you know, like, granted, you know, that learning
00:24:09.980 --> 00:24:12.819
objective is out there in front and you want
00:24:12.819 --> 00:24:14.319
the tool that's going to match it regardless
00:24:14.319 --> 00:24:16.359
of whether it's high tech, low tech or anywhere
00:24:16.359 --> 00:24:19.619
between. But you know, Google has I think a lot
00:24:19.619 --> 00:24:24.700
of maybe a platform of different tools that are
00:24:24.700 --> 00:24:26.400
really neat. Do you think there are any that
00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:30.180
are underutilized or underrated in your mind
00:24:30.180 --> 00:24:32.960
that could really help to accelerate learning
00:24:32.960 --> 00:24:35.700
for a student or improving instruction for a
00:24:35.700 --> 00:24:39.880
teacher? Yeah, a couple, I don't know, underutilized.
00:24:39.980 --> 00:24:42.400
I mean, some of them are new. I mean, I've been
00:24:42.400 --> 00:24:46.980
quite impressed lately with Google Vids, which
00:24:46.980 --> 00:24:50.460
I don't sense that. a lot of teachers have had
00:24:50.460 --> 00:24:55.420
a chance to explore. I feel, I remember sensing
00:24:55.420 --> 00:24:58.599
the PowerPoint fatigue of, you know, 10 years
00:24:58.599 --> 00:25:00.559
ago. I kind of feel like we're in Google Slides
00:25:00.559 --> 00:25:02.779
fatigue. Like kids don't like making slide reasons.
00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:06.660
It's not cool. It's not fun. It's boring. So
00:25:06.660 --> 00:25:09.799
yeah, Google Vids could be a nice alternative
00:25:09.799 --> 00:25:14.680
to that. That would be the new one. And then
00:25:14.680 --> 00:25:18.390
Google Sites, honestly. You know, Sites was very
00:25:18.390 --> 00:25:21.630
popular pre -classroom because everybody made
00:25:21.630 --> 00:25:24.490
teacher pages, but then Classroom kind of absorbed
00:25:24.490 --> 00:25:27.069
a lot of that. But like right now, I'm working
00:25:27.069 --> 00:25:29.470
with the Google Site project with some kids and
00:25:29.470 --> 00:25:32.609
they love it. They think it's super fun. And
00:25:32.609 --> 00:25:34.730
they're learning how to build websites along
00:25:34.730 --> 00:25:37.250
the way as well. So there's two for you. Yeah,
00:25:37.589 --> 00:25:40.650
that's really cool. And I've actually seen people
00:25:40.650 --> 00:25:44.119
that have taken Google Sites and used, you know,
00:25:44.200 --> 00:25:46.460
something that they have developed in maybe like
00:25:46.460 --> 00:25:49.200
AI studio, and then they're able to take that
00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:51.460
code and embed it onto their site and almost
00:25:51.460 --> 00:25:53.960
make like a live web app that just needs to be
00:25:53.960 --> 00:25:56.140
hosted on a Google site, something that hey,
00:25:56.480 --> 00:26:00.359
all of these schools have access to, right? Yeah,
00:26:00.759 --> 00:26:02.380
they tend to block them because the kids have
00:26:02.380 --> 00:26:04.119
figured out how to do it too. And now the kids
00:26:04.119 --> 00:26:07.380
are building their own game websites, which is
00:26:07.380 --> 00:26:11.539
creative and frustrating at the same time. How
00:26:11.539 --> 00:26:13.599
about those kids? That's why we love them though.
00:26:15.099 --> 00:26:17.500
You know, I want you to switch and put on a different
00:26:17.500 --> 00:26:20.259
hat here now and maybe you're kind of like started
00:26:20.259 --> 00:26:23.119
to mention that here. What sort of admin level
00:26:23.119 --> 00:26:25.660
decisions do you think are important to be able
00:26:25.660 --> 00:26:29.420
to not prevent maybe innovation from teachers,
00:26:29.539 --> 00:26:32.319
but yet to be able to keep in mind that the security
00:26:32.319 --> 00:26:35.700
and the safety of students? Yeah, and I don't
00:26:35.700 --> 00:26:38.240
know if you're. intention for this question was
00:26:38.240 --> 00:26:40.759
more of the like school principal level or the
00:26:40.759 --> 00:26:44.500
IT admin. I think I'm going more IT admin role.
00:26:44.900 --> 00:26:47.460
Yeah, because I've stepped into that role a lot
00:26:47.460 --> 00:26:50.240
more over the last seven or eight years. Kind
00:26:50.240 --> 00:26:52.359
of coming out of COVID, so many schools deployed
00:26:52.359 --> 00:26:56.359
Chromebooks and other tech just in an emergency
00:26:56.359 --> 00:26:59.519
situation with very little planning. And so I've
00:26:59.519 --> 00:27:01.960
done a lot of work in the Google admin console
00:27:01.960 --> 00:27:05.119
to help schools thoughtfully apply policies and
00:27:05.119 --> 00:27:09.700
whatnot. Unfortunately, it's not really their
00:27:09.700 --> 00:27:12.059
fault, but a lot of IT admins are not teachers.
00:27:12.180 --> 00:27:14.519
So they don't fully understand the implication.
00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:17.319
Like when I click this button, I'm trying to
00:27:17.319 --> 00:27:20.660
make things more secure, but I've just made the
00:27:20.660 --> 00:27:25.480
life of a teacher miserable. Whether it's password
00:27:25.480 --> 00:27:30.970
security or just different things. Right now
00:27:30.970 --> 00:27:33.410
the Gemini conversation is the most important.
00:27:33.849 --> 00:27:36.410
The one thing that floors me, because I've worked
00:27:36.410 --> 00:27:38.410
with again hundreds and hundreds of districts,
00:27:38.930 --> 00:27:42.470
the number of school districts that have disabled
00:27:42.470 --> 00:27:47.529
Gemini for staff, but are maybe not like encouraging
00:27:47.529 --> 00:27:50.410
it, but just looking the other way when the staff
00:27:50.410 --> 00:27:55.130
go and use ChatGPT. I'm like, I don't understand
00:27:55.130 --> 00:27:58.880
that. at all. And it's happened enough times
00:27:58.880 --> 00:28:01.140
that I'm like, I don't like what are we doing
00:28:01.140 --> 00:28:03.660
here? I mean, if you don't like AI, that's one
00:28:03.660 --> 00:28:08.400
thing. But to exclude the tool that you built
00:28:08.400 --> 00:28:11.500
your entire district on for this other random
00:28:11.500 --> 00:28:13.680
thing that you really have no data privacy agreement
00:28:13.680 --> 00:28:18.700
with or any control over just seems very unwise.
00:28:19.990 --> 00:28:23.069
And once teachers buy into Chad GBT, trying to
00:28:23.069 --> 00:28:24.710
switch them back is gonna be a nightmare. I mean,
00:28:24.710 --> 00:28:26.670
it's like the email thing you mentioned. They're
00:28:26.670 --> 00:28:29.130
not gonna wanna switch. Once you drink a Coke,
00:28:29.490 --> 00:28:36.509
don't give me a Pepsi. And another way to look
00:28:36.509 --> 00:28:40.750
at this too is from the teacher side. So I know
00:28:40.750 --> 00:28:42.369
Jeremy just had you think about it from like
00:28:42.369 --> 00:28:45.230
tech, more the tech side and admin side and kind
00:28:45.230 --> 00:28:48.869
of controlling what's accessible. But from...
00:28:49.450 --> 00:28:52.170
and I know we're gonna talk about AI in a little
00:28:52.170 --> 00:28:54.170
bit. I know we've got some questions there, but
00:28:54.170 --> 00:28:58.769
as far as instructional integrity and balancing
00:28:58.769 --> 00:29:04.750
a mix of exposure for teachers to AI tools and
00:29:04.750 --> 00:29:08.470
how they implement those tools, what do you think
00:29:08.470 --> 00:29:13.210
is the most important thing for maybe, so now
00:29:13.210 --> 00:29:16.109
like the leadership side, whether it's a principal
00:29:16.109 --> 00:29:20.079
or if it's like a curriculum coordinator, What
00:29:20.079 --> 00:29:22.680
should they be looking at in terms of utilizing
00:29:22.680 --> 00:29:26.000
and getting these tools to their teachers, but
00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:28.900
maintaining instructional integrity and not losing
00:29:28.900 --> 00:29:30.980
sight of that? Because like so much of what we've
00:29:30.980 --> 00:29:34.759
seen in the past is an explosion of ed tech tools
00:29:34.759 --> 00:29:38.940
and not the best implementation of those tools.
00:29:39.480 --> 00:29:42.480
So can you touch on that a little bit? Yeah,
00:29:42.519 --> 00:29:46.960
I hope I can communicate this well. This is something
00:29:46.960 --> 00:29:49.319
I've been thinking a lot about. So I've been
00:29:49.319 --> 00:29:52.599
using AI for, I don't know, two and a half years
00:29:52.599 --> 00:29:56.119
now. I mean, it's certainly improved. That's
00:29:56.119 --> 00:30:00.799
pretty easy to see. But I have definitely noticed
00:30:00.799 --> 00:30:07.960
a shift in like how I am using it. And I don't
00:30:07.960 --> 00:30:11.579
know if I can communicate this super well. But
00:30:11.579 --> 00:30:19.060
like it is it's a skill. You really have to figure
00:30:19.060 --> 00:30:24.200
out how to use AI effectively. And I think the
00:30:24.200 --> 00:30:29.059
most important thing about AI use is you have
00:30:29.059 --> 00:30:32.720
to know what you want. If you don't know what
00:30:32.720 --> 00:30:36.799
you want, AI is going to give it to you and you're
00:30:36.799 --> 00:30:39.599
going to use it. And it may or may not be the
00:30:39.599 --> 00:30:43.799
right thing. So if you are really smushy in your
00:30:43.799 --> 00:30:46.640
pedagogy, you don't know what your standards
00:30:46.640 --> 00:30:48.920
are, you don't know what you're trying to accomplish,
00:30:49.359 --> 00:30:52.359
AI is always going to give you an answer, and
00:30:52.359 --> 00:30:55.619
it's gonna guess. If you don't direct it, it's
00:30:55.619 --> 00:30:57.740
just gonna guess, and sometimes it gets it right,
00:30:57.779 --> 00:31:01.819
and sometimes it gets it wrong. And that also
00:31:01.819 --> 00:31:06.019
is, I think, why I'm so uncomfortable giving
00:31:06.019 --> 00:31:08.880
especially elementary and middle school students
00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:12.529
access to AI. Because they don't know what they
00:31:12.529 --> 00:31:14.910
want yet. They don't know where they're going.
00:31:15.670 --> 00:31:17.910
So AI is a tool that helps you get where you're
00:31:17.910 --> 00:31:20.569
going faster. But if you don't know, it's just
00:31:20.569 --> 00:31:22.849
going to take you somewhere. And you may or may
00:31:22.849 --> 00:31:27.529
not like where you end up. So it's kind of a
00:31:27.529 --> 00:31:30.809
twofold issue for schools. Your teachers have
00:31:30.809 --> 00:31:33.190
to have some basic skills to know how to use
00:31:33.190 --> 00:31:37.000
it. But then you also your administration has
00:31:37.000 --> 00:31:40.140
to be strong enough to set that vision that says
00:31:40.140 --> 00:31:42.579
this is where we're going This is the curriculum.
00:31:42.579 --> 00:31:44.559
These are the expectations This is the school
00:31:44.559 --> 00:31:47.140
culture that we've created and now we can use
00:31:47.140 --> 00:31:49.980
the AI to help us implement those things You
00:31:49.980 --> 00:31:52.779
don't have that then you just fragment into all
00:31:52.779 --> 00:31:55.519
these different places and it feels like AI is
00:31:55.519 --> 00:31:58.980
Negatively impacting you is just amplifying what
00:31:58.980 --> 00:32:02.599
was there good or bad. So I hopefully that comes
00:32:02.599 --> 00:32:05.710
across I haven't written a blog post about that
00:32:05.710 --> 00:32:09.049
yet, because those thoughts are still percolating
00:32:09.049 --> 00:32:15.430
in my mind. Right. Because we have so many people
00:32:15.430 --> 00:32:20.710
involved, and tech is so widely used in schools,
00:32:21.970 --> 00:32:26.150
do you have any thoughts on how we can overcome
00:32:26.150 --> 00:32:28.890
some of the silos of departments? Like where
00:32:28.890 --> 00:32:31.690
we've got, you know, the tech, there's the tech
00:32:31.690 --> 00:32:33.829
folks. They make sure that everything is secure.
00:32:33.849 --> 00:32:36.750
They're in the admin console. Nobody else really
00:32:36.750 --> 00:32:39.549
knows much about that. Making an assumption there,
00:32:39.670 --> 00:32:42.109
but they're they're kind of doing their thing.
00:32:42.289 --> 00:32:44.450
We have the pedagogy folks over here who are
00:32:44.450 --> 00:32:46.329
doing their thing. Give me thoughts about how
00:32:46.329 --> 00:32:48.349
we can kind of break those down and bring those
00:32:48.349 --> 00:32:50.529
people to the table more together so that they
00:32:50.529 --> 00:32:54.089
can learn more about what they're doing in the
00:32:54.089 --> 00:32:56.920
school. Honestly, I think it's school leadership.
00:32:57.279 --> 00:33:00.839
It's not an easy answer. But I mean, yes, I have
00:33:00.839 --> 00:33:03.380
worked with districts and in districts where
00:33:03.380 --> 00:33:08.279
the IT person operates like a dictator. And I
00:33:08.279 --> 00:33:12.180
don't understand how, I mean, that's a leadership
00:33:12.180 --> 00:33:16.319
thing. That's not allowed. You are just one piece
00:33:16.319 --> 00:33:18.880
of this organization. You don't just get to dictate
00:33:18.880 --> 00:33:20.859
whatever you want and then tell everybody else
00:33:20.859 --> 00:33:23.359
to deal with it. We have to have that conversation.
00:33:24.619 --> 00:33:26.720
you know that's the superintendent or you know
00:33:26.720 --> 00:33:29.019
whoever's leading the school is just like hey
00:33:29.019 --> 00:33:31.500
we're in this together we got all all do that
00:33:31.500 --> 00:33:34.200
so that's a that's a leadership thing making
00:33:34.200 --> 00:33:36.279
sure that everybody realizes that we're all one
00:33:36.279 --> 00:33:39.099
piece of this larger whole and everybody contributes
00:33:39.099 --> 00:33:42.980
to everything. Now I do feel that there will
00:33:42.980 --> 00:33:45.980
end up being some silos and you do actually need
00:33:45.980 --> 00:33:48.440
some silos probably you know at the department
00:33:48.440 --> 00:33:51.180
level like math instruction is going to be very
00:33:51.180 --> 00:33:52.599
different than language arts. And they're going
00:33:52.599 --> 00:33:54.980
to have different needs and requirements and
00:33:54.980 --> 00:33:57.619
concerns. And so I think that's okay. But that's
00:33:57.619 --> 00:34:01.319
where you have to hire groups where we take all
00:34:01.319 --> 00:34:04.859
of those things into consideration. But ultimately,
00:34:04.900 --> 00:34:08.280
I think it's it's top leadership. Yeah, so it
00:34:08.280 --> 00:34:10.119
sounds like you're if I'm hearing you're right,
00:34:10.320 --> 00:34:12.300
you're kind of saying like there's avenues for
00:34:12.300 --> 00:34:14.280
both of these things to be occurring. It just
00:34:14.280 --> 00:34:18.210
depends on what it's for. Somebody's got to pull
00:34:18.210 --> 00:34:21.730
it all together. Someone's got to bring those
00:34:21.730 --> 00:34:25.050
lines of communication and let people say, hey,
00:34:25.130 --> 00:34:27.170
we want to hear your concerns. And understand
00:34:27.170 --> 00:34:30.150
that there's going to be differing opinions.
00:34:30.230 --> 00:34:31.610
And at some point, we're going to have to pick
00:34:31.610 --> 00:34:33.110
one or the other. But that doesn't mean you're
00:34:33.110 --> 00:34:35.630
necessarily wrong. It just means this is the
00:34:35.630 --> 00:34:37.389
direction. We've got to pick something. So this
00:34:37.389 --> 00:34:41.130
is the direction we're going to head. Sure. One
00:34:41.130 --> 00:34:43.909
other question here, if you're looking at the
00:34:43.909 --> 00:34:48.309
school as a whole and let's say the school is
00:34:48.309 --> 00:34:50.309
maybe doing something like a one -to -one rollout
00:34:50.309 --> 00:34:54.849
tomorrow or something that is going to get tech
00:34:54.849 --> 00:34:58.329
to students, is there anything that you would
00:34:58.329 --> 00:35:01.469
communicate to a tech coordinator or a tech integrationist
00:35:01.469 --> 00:35:04.110
of big mistakes that could be easily avoided
00:35:04.110 --> 00:35:09.269
with a simple fill in the blank? One thing I
00:35:09.269 --> 00:35:15.250
think schools need to consider is the parent,
00:35:15.250 --> 00:35:19.030
parent concerns. I mean, look at how many resources
00:35:19.030 --> 00:35:25.030
we extend to manage tech in school. Parents do
00:35:25.030 --> 00:35:28.690
not have that level of expertise, the equipment
00:35:28.690 --> 00:35:32.329
or the tools that we have. And so that's something
00:35:32.329 --> 00:35:34.309
like I've been a little surprised, like as a
00:35:34.309 --> 00:35:37.550
father of five kids, I feel that I basically
00:35:37.550 --> 00:35:42.300
run an IT organization at my. just managing all
00:35:42.300 --> 00:35:45.940
the Alexas and the Nintendos and the Xbox and
00:35:45.940 --> 00:35:49.340
the phones and I mean it's a real challenge and
00:35:49.340 --> 00:35:53.139
I think that is Becoming more parent with like
00:35:53.139 --> 00:35:56.239
AI So you have parents who may or may not want
00:35:56.239 --> 00:35:59.000
their kids to have AI and just making sure that
00:35:59.000 --> 00:36:01.960
we communicate What this is the safety, you know
00:36:01.960 --> 00:36:04.780
guardrails that we've put in place Because the
00:36:04.780 --> 00:36:06.780
parents can make your life miserable, you know
00:36:06.780 --> 00:36:08.860
If you don't bring them on board and listen to
00:36:08.860 --> 00:36:13.119
some of those concerns Yeah, and it's it really
00:36:13.119 --> 00:36:16.380
is kind of interesting I just finished it was
00:36:16.380 --> 00:36:18.179
it was on my list of things to read for a long
00:36:18.179 --> 00:36:19.800
time and I'm a little ashamed that it took me
00:36:19.800 --> 00:36:23.070
the song to read it but Anxious Generation, the
00:36:23.070 --> 00:36:25.969
Jonathan Hape book, and it's really interesting
00:36:25.969 --> 00:36:28.409
at one point he talks about how we can't just
00:36:28.409 --> 00:36:30.710
lay it all onto parents and expect every single
00:36:30.710 --> 00:36:33.650
parent to be that IT department for their family,
00:36:33.730 --> 00:36:36.210
like you're saying, to be able to effectively
00:36:37.389 --> 00:36:40.429
help guide students in managing their screen
00:36:40.429 --> 00:36:44.769
usage, but also in making sure that we're giving
00:36:44.769 --> 00:36:47.010
students opportunities to do a lot of other things
00:36:47.010 --> 00:36:50.530
besides engage with tech. So it's kind of interesting
00:36:50.530 --> 00:36:53.130
to hear you say something a little bit similar
00:36:53.130 --> 00:36:56.170
why it's important to bring parents into that
00:36:56.170 --> 00:36:58.250
conversation, I think, at the same time, and
00:36:58.250 --> 00:37:01.309
get that perspective. And I think AI definitely
00:37:01.309 --> 00:37:05.710
is accelerating that conversation in many different
00:37:05.710 --> 00:37:09.840
ways as well. So like my kids we we don't let
00:37:09.840 --> 00:37:12.780
our kids have phones until they drive so you
00:37:12.780 --> 00:37:15.659
don't get a cell phone until you drive So if
00:37:15.659 --> 00:37:18.679
I send my kid to your school and you hand them
00:37:18.679 --> 00:37:23.239
a Chromebook Okay, I mean way like I want to
00:37:23.239 --> 00:37:25.900
make sure that that device is supporting our
00:37:25.900 --> 00:37:30.079
family goals as well So yes, it's it's definitely
00:37:30.079 --> 00:37:34.579
a partnership For parents and families on both
00:37:34.579 --> 00:37:39.239
ends of the spectrum Yeah, let's kind of, we
00:37:39.239 --> 00:37:41.980
did invite AI into our conversation here just
00:37:41.980 --> 00:37:44.920
a little bit ago too, and I feel like that's
00:37:44.920 --> 00:37:47.920
a term I've heard before, invite AI into your
00:37:47.920 --> 00:37:51.719
conversations, right? But I think for teachers,
00:37:52.480 --> 00:37:55.860
many of them are starting to feel. because they're
00:37:55.860 --> 00:37:59.340
hearing it from perhaps their tech leaders in
00:37:59.340 --> 00:38:01.119
their buildings. Maybe they're hearing it from
00:38:01.119 --> 00:38:04.460
their admins, their principals, or their superintendents
00:38:04.460 --> 00:38:07.940
that they should be invited to bring AI into
00:38:07.940 --> 00:38:10.179
the conversation. I think sometimes when a teacher
00:38:10.179 --> 00:38:12.300
hears that, they think it needs to be all AI
00:38:12.300 --> 00:38:15.900
all the time. and that we don't want them to
00:38:15.900 --> 00:38:19.079
lose focus on the highly effective things that
00:38:19.079 --> 00:38:23.980
they're doing anyway. But as someone who looks
00:38:23.980 --> 00:38:28.699
at a lot of ed tech, like you had described earlier,
00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:31.559
it's part of what you do every day. How can you
00:38:31.559 --> 00:38:34.239
help a teacher sift through that noise to get
00:38:34.239 --> 00:38:40.400
to what is going to be impactful for them? Yeah,
00:38:40.519 --> 00:38:45.309
there's a lot to unpack there. I have done a
00:38:45.309 --> 00:38:50.250
ton of AI workshops, webinars, PD sessions since
00:38:50.250 --> 00:38:53.329
the first of the year. It really feels like schools
00:38:53.329 --> 00:38:57.070
are investing in PD lately. And I get these two
00:38:57.070 --> 00:39:01.230
extreme opinions, which is wild. Like it'll be,
00:39:01.329 --> 00:39:03.090
I'll talk to two people right after each other
00:39:03.090 --> 00:39:04.829
and these are the two things they'll say. So
00:39:04.829 --> 00:39:08.489
one person will be using AI and will be super
00:39:08.489 --> 00:39:11.190
frustrated because it's not perfect. is like,
00:39:11.510 --> 00:39:13.769
I asked it for this thing and it's not 100 %
00:39:13.769 --> 00:39:16.210
what I wanted, so it's no good. I'm not using
00:39:16.210 --> 00:39:19.349
it, it's not good enough. Then I'll have another
00:39:19.349 --> 00:39:23.090
person who will simultaneously tell me, I'm so
00:39:23.090 --> 00:39:25.269
scared of this, it's going to take my job because
00:39:25.269 --> 00:39:26.989
it's going to do everything perfectly. And so
00:39:26.989 --> 00:39:30.170
we got these two people who are both mad at AI
00:39:30.170 --> 00:39:33.849
for different reasons. I think the truth is probably
00:39:33.849 --> 00:39:36.210
somewhere in the middle. One of the things I
00:39:36.210 --> 00:39:39.929
like to say is Use AI to accomplish the things
00:39:39.929 --> 00:39:43.070
that you hate the most. Like every teacher is
00:39:43.070 --> 00:39:45.610
good at some things and hates doing other things.
00:39:46.050 --> 00:39:48.809
So use the AI to get rid of the annoying stuff
00:39:48.809 --> 00:39:50.590
so that you can focus on the things that you
00:39:50.590 --> 00:39:53.289
like. I don't really enjoy lesson planning, so
00:39:53.289 --> 00:39:55.449
I would love to use AI to do that. Some people,
00:39:55.769 --> 00:39:58.610
that is their favorite part of teaching is coming
00:39:58.610 --> 00:40:00.550
up with these really cool creative lessons. Well,
00:40:00.550 --> 00:40:03.349
great! then do it yourself and use AI for, I
00:40:03.349 --> 00:40:06.809
don't know, grading or report cards or the thing
00:40:06.809 --> 00:40:11.769
that you dislike. I mean, I saw the report from
00:40:11.769 --> 00:40:14.869
the Microsoft CEO that was like, all white collar
00:40:14.869 --> 00:40:18.510
jobs will be eliminated in six months. And I'm
00:40:18.510 --> 00:40:20.489
not buying it. I mean, I'm not saying it's not
00:40:20.489 --> 00:40:23.210
going to have an impact, but I don't think it's
00:40:23.210 --> 00:40:28.110
going to be as quick as it is made out to be.
00:40:28.250 --> 00:40:30.679
I think teachers are still the most important
00:40:30.679 --> 00:40:33.619
part of the classroom. I think AI can assist
00:40:33.619 --> 00:40:37.579
them. AI will make a good teacher better and
00:40:37.579 --> 00:40:40.980
a bad teacher worse. Again, it gets back to that
00:40:40.980 --> 00:40:43.019
you have to know where you're going. If you don't
00:40:43.019 --> 00:40:45.960
have good instructional practice, then AI is
00:40:45.960 --> 00:40:49.699
going to amplify. It just takes that bad teacher
00:40:49.699 --> 00:40:53.360
and accelerates them down that path. AI is really
00:40:53.360 --> 00:40:58.769
good at making lousy worksheets. One last thing
00:40:58.769 --> 00:41:01.309
here, I think with AI to touch on here before
00:41:01.309 --> 00:41:03.409
we move into our lightning round stuff that we
00:41:03.409 --> 00:41:06.789
have for you at the end. What role should AI
00:41:06.789 --> 00:41:10.989
have with student use? Do we need to be focusing
00:41:10.989 --> 00:41:15.750
on AI literacy? Is there a certain timeframe
00:41:15.750 --> 00:41:19.090
where you think exposing kids to the things that
00:41:19.090 --> 00:41:21.610
AI can do to help them become more beneficial?
00:41:22.789 --> 00:41:26.070
Yeah, so my personal thoughts, and I welcome
00:41:26.070 --> 00:41:29.329
discussion and disagreement on this, no AI for
00:41:29.329 --> 00:41:31.230
elementary, they need to be reading, writing,
00:41:31.329 --> 00:41:34.550
talking to humans. Honestly, I would say limited
00:41:34.550 --> 00:41:37.369
tech use, you know, special projects, special
00:41:37.369 --> 00:41:40.429
opportunities, but not, you know, not every day.
00:41:41.289 --> 00:41:46.550
Middle school, I am open to AI for like special
00:41:46.550 --> 00:41:50.380
projects. but not as like it just we have it
00:41:50.380 --> 00:41:52.739
all available all the time. So like for this
00:41:52.739 --> 00:41:55.059
thing or this project or this activity, we'll
00:41:55.059 --> 00:41:59.639
use it. Now at the high school level, you've
00:41:59.639 --> 00:42:01.960
got to loosen it up because they have it anyways,
00:42:02.179 --> 00:42:05.920
and they are moving into college and career and
00:42:05.920 --> 00:42:09.119
whatnot. The hope would be that once they get
00:42:09.119 --> 00:42:12.460
into high school, they have mastered the basic
00:42:12.460 --> 00:42:14.820
skills, like they know how to type, they know
00:42:14.820 --> 00:42:17.840
how to form a sentence, and so AI can assist
00:42:17.840 --> 00:42:21.480
them in formulating their thoughts and refining
00:42:21.480 --> 00:42:24.400
their ideas. The challenge with AI is that it's
00:42:24.400 --> 00:42:26.980
all based on intention. If you have bad intentions,
00:42:27.139 --> 00:42:29.000
it will help you. If you have good intentions,
00:42:29.039 --> 00:42:32.420
it will also help you. And that's hard to legislate.
00:42:32.719 --> 00:42:34.739
And so you have to, I think at the middle school
00:42:34.739 --> 00:42:37.079
level, we have to talk more about why learning
00:42:37.079 --> 00:42:40.360
is important. And there are tools you can use
00:42:40.360 --> 00:42:41.900
to take shortcuts and cheat, and that's only
00:42:41.900 --> 00:42:44.760
going to impact you. There has to be that intrinsic
00:42:44.760 --> 00:42:47.400
motivation, because there's no way to tech your
00:42:47.400 --> 00:42:50.679
way out of students using AI inappropriately.
00:42:54.139 --> 00:42:57.699
Yeah, and so I think I I think we're kind of
00:42:57.699 --> 00:43:00.360
setting up here for our lightning round that
00:43:00.360 --> 00:43:04.280
we we bring in at the end And so John what we're
00:43:04.280 --> 00:43:06.219
gonna do is we're gonna alternate asking you
00:43:06.219 --> 00:43:08.780
a few different questions And it's meant to be
00:43:08.780 --> 00:43:12.139
up to you to give a short one word answer, one
00:43:12.139 --> 00:43:15.320
sentence answer, but if you feel it's worth expounding
00:43:15.320 --> 00:43:18.239
upon, you know, add it to a paragraph, you know,
00:43:18.260 --> 00:43:20.320
whatever that length that you think is appropriate.
00:43:20.340 --> 00:43:22.780
And then to mix in a little bit of this and that
00:43:22.780 --> 00:43:24.659
type questions where we will kind of pin you
00:43:24.659 --> 00:43:28.519
down to one or the other. So I think, let's see,
00:43:28.539 --> 00:43:30.480
David, I've got you kicking it off with the first
00:43:30.480 --> 00:43:34.679
question here. Yeah. So if AI disappeared tomorrow,
00:43:34.940 --> 00:43:37.280
what skill would teachers need to double down
00:43:37.280 --> 00:43:41.869
on? I'm gonna cheat and say the three R's. Read
00:43:41.869 --> 00:43:44.809
and write and arithmetic. Those don't go out
00:43:44.809 --> 00:43:49.190
of style. So John, if you were given an unlimited
00:43:49.190 --> 00:43:53.150
funding for one individual but awesome tech experiment
00:43:53.150 --> 00:43:55.570
that you could bring and implement into your
00:43:55.570 --> 00:43:59.030
building, what would you look at trying to bring
00:43:59.030 --> 00:44:04.409
about? I am quite fascinated by the ability to
00:44:04.409 --> 00:44:08.090
code with AI. I firmly believe that somebody
00:44:08.090 --> 00:44:11.750
is going to create a multi -million dollar product
00:44:11.750 --> 00:44:15.969
without any coding skills. And it could be a
00:44:15.969 --> 00:44:18.869
sixth grader. I don't know. So a coding class
00:44:18.869 --> 00:44:21.670
with some of the like replet or some of the higher
00:44:21.670 --> 00:44:25.670
end like coding platforms, I think would be fascinating
00:44:25.670 --> 00:44:28.190
to see what they come up with. I think David's
00:44:28.190 --> 00:44:30.170
got a shot at that. He likes his vibe coding.
00:44:30.610 --> 00:44:34.809
I like to do some vibe coding. Yes. If you had
00:44:34.809 --> 00:44:38.010
to pick one Google workspace feature every teacher
00:44:38.010 --> 00:44:42.190
should master in 2026, what is that and why?
00:44:42.829 --> 00:44:46.349
It's got to be Gemini. Again, I've done a ton
00:44:46.349 --> 00:44:51.889
of training for teachers and they've used Gemini,
00:44:52.070 --> 00:44:54.530
but I'm actually a little disappointed that they
00:44:54.530 --> 00:44:58.130
have no idea. They don't know about Canvas or
00:44:58.130 --> 00:45:02.309
deep research or different modes. They don't
00:45:02.309 --> 00:45:05.610
know how to use it effectively, because no one's
00:45:05.610 --> 00:45:08.170
trained them. So definitely dive into Gemini.
00:45:09.369 --> 00:45:11.809
I'm going to kind of change up this next question
00:45:11.809 --> 00:45:13.210
that's on there, because I think you've given
00:45:13.210 --> 00:45:16.070
us some controversial things here already, which
00:45:16.070 --> 00:45:17.710
was going to be the next question. So since you
00:45:17.710 --> 00:45:20.690
brought up Gemini, what's your favorite Gemini
00:45:20.690 --> 00:45:23.650
tool? You know, you mentioned deep research,
00:45:23.809 --> 00:45:26.309
guided learning. You've got nano banana. You've
00:45:26.309 --> 00:45:32.460
now got the music. Yeah. It's got to be Canvas,
00:45:32.639 --> 00:45:37.280
100 % Canvas. I really struggled with Gemini
00:45:37.280 --> 00:45:38.900
because I was trying to do like blogging and
00:45:38.900 --> 00:45:40.400
stuff and I could never get it to really match
00:45:40.400 --> 00:45:42.840
my voice. But with Canvas, if you don't know,
00:45:42.960 --> 00:45:45.219
it's just basically Google Doc. So you can go
00:45:45.219 --> 00:45:47.519
in and you can make your own edits as well as
00:45:47.519 --> 00:45:49.760
asking AI to make edits. So the ability to go
00:45:49.760 --> 00:45:52.099
back and forth where you have a lot more control
00:45:52.099 --> 00:45:57.039
is, yeah, it's so nice. Cool. All right. So the
00:45:57.039 --> 00:45:59.440
next one here is this or that. So it's kind of
00:45:59.440 --> 00:46:01.639
rapid fire. And with this or that, you can only
00:46:01.639 --> 00:46:04.000
choose one. You have to choose one or the other.
00:46:04.820 --> 00:46:07.519
So I'll give you two options on each one of these.
00:46:07.940 --> 00:46:11.559
AI assistant for teachers or AI tutor for students?
00:46:12.380 --> 00:46:14.460
I would do AI assistant for teachers. I think
00:46:14.460 --> 00:46:19.460
it's a great teacher tool. Okay. Early bird productivity
00:46:19.460 --> 00:46:24.460
or late night creative burst? Ooh, I go back
00:46:24.460 --> 00:46:27.239
and forth. I usually work out in the morning.
00:46:27.260 --> 00:46:30.880
So I guess I do my productivity stuff more at
00:46:30.880 --> 00:46:36.179
night. All right. Deep mastery of one core tool
00:46:36.179 --> 00:46:39.739
or surface level knowledge of 20 tools. Oh, deep
00:46:39.739 --> 00:46:42.039
mastery for sure. I mean, I'm the guy who's just
00:46:42.039 --> 00:46:44.380
double tripled down on Google. I mean, if it
00:46:44.380 --> 00:46:46.320
doesn't have a login with Google button, I'm
00:46:46.320 --> 00:46:51.250
like, nope, not doing it. Paper notebook or digital
00:46:51.250 --> 00:46:53.929
notes? I'm a lefty, so it's got to be digital.
00:46:54.010 --> 00:46:55.989
My wife always makes fun of me, because the only
00:46:55.989 --> 00:46:57.730
thing she's ever seen me write is my signature.
00:46:58.530 --> 00:47:01.550
But lefties and pens and notebooks never works
00:47:01.550 --> 00:47:08.409
well. In -person PD or asynchronous self -paced
00:47:08.409 --> 00:47:15.070
learning? I prefer in -person. What I would say
00:47:15.070 --> 00:47:18.409
is in -person works best for introductory stuff.
00:47:19.470 --> 00:47:22.110
asynchronous and self -paced works better for
00:47:22.110 --> 00:47:25.650
advanced. That way you can kind of fast forward
00:47:25.650 --> 00:47:28.889
and skip through. But I'm always nervous when
00:47:28.889 --> 00:47:32.590
schools want me to do a webinar for like something
00:47:32.590 --> 00:47:34.670
brand new. I'm like, oh, this is not going to
00:47:34.670 --> 00:47:39.510
go well. So you got the webinar tool, two monitors,
00:47:39.670 --> 00:47:41.929
you got all this stuff in addition to the new
00:47:41.929 --> 00:47:45.650
thing you're learning. Okay, and then this is
00:47:45.650 --> 00:47:48.570
the last this or that road trip with a podcast
00:47:48.570 --> 00:47:54.969
or music Oh podcast for sure, of course Integrate
00:47:54.969 --> 00:47:59.130
this and you know, that's a good answer. Thanks
00:47:59.130 --> 00:48:06.269
I'm not a music guy. I'm a podcast guy To 2x
00:48:06.269 --> 00:48:08.949
as well, which drives my family not so you guys
00:48:08.949 --> 00:48:15.260
Yeah, one and a half Okay, depends on the show.
00:48:15.380 --> 00:48:17.199
I got a couple hosts that talk too fast, but
00:48:17.199 --> 00:48:22.539
I try to do 2x. I usually roll with the 0 .5.
00:48:22.719 --> 00:48:26.559
So we slow everything down for him though, so
00:48:26.559 --> 00:48:30.519
that's no big deal. Hey, and one last question
00:48:30.519 --> 00:48:33.840
here, John, before we turn you loose here. So
00:48:33.840 --> 00:48:35.659
you're going to be given a keynote tomorrow,
00:48:35.659 --> 00:48:40.909
let's say, and the the person in charge of the
00:48:40.909 --> 00:48:42.710
sound comes to you and says, what do you want
00:48:42.710 --> 00:48:45.510
to be your walkout song? All right. I like this.
00:48:46.070 --> 00:48:48.349
What's going to be pumping people up before you
00:48:48.349 --> 00:48:52.130
take the stage? Yeah. It's a oldie, but I'm going
00:48:52.130 --> 00:48:55.489
to go with Glorious by Macklemore. That one's
00:48:55.489 --> 00:48:58.730
been on my playlist a lot lately. It's a high
00:48:58.730 --> 00:49:02.090
energy song. Awesome. Well, John, thank you so
00:49:02.090 --> 00:49:04.469
much here for joining us. What we want to do
00:49:04.469 --> 00:49:07.260
is give you a little bit of the stage here. Is
00:49:07.260 --> 00:49:09.159
there anything coming up that you want to promote,
00:49:09.340 --> 00:49:12.019
or if you want to give a shout out to your website,
00:49:12.280 --> 00:49:15.059
your blog, your podcast, your newsletter? And
00:49:15.059 --> 00:49:16.800
we can definitely link all of those things in
00:49:16.800 --> 00:49:19.360
the show description. Yeah, happy to connect
00:49:19.360 --> 00:49:23.179
with people. I'm on all the socials, either my
00:49:23.179 --> 00:49:27.820
name or Chromebook Classroom. Since there's a
00:49:27.820 --> 00:49:29.840
bunch of podcast people listening to this, my
00:49:29.840 --> 00:49:32.920
podcast is the Chromebook Classroom, wherever
00:49:32.920 --> 00:49:37.110
finer podcasts are made available. And yeah,
00:49:37.110 --> 00:49:39.429
let's see, it's conference season right now.
00:49:39.449 --> 00:49:43.050
So let's see, I'm going to be making trips to
00:49:43.050 --> 00:49:46.869
Kentucky. I'll be at KISTI in March, the McColl
00:49:46.869 --> 00:49:51.190
Conference in Michigan, March as well. And then
00:49:51.190 --> 00:49:54.909
I'll be in Sandusky for an IT brainstorm conference
00:49:54.909 --> 00:50:00.650
in May. So yeah, if you're coming to any events,
00:50:01.769 --> 00:50:05.210
say hello. Awesome. Well, thanks so much, John.
00:50:05.449 --> 00:50:07.949
Love to have you on the show. Thanks. Thank you
00:50:07.949 --> 00:50:10.190
for the invitation. Boy, it's great to be a guest.
00:50:10.449 --> 00:50:14.610
It's all the fun and none of the editing. Thanks,
00:50:14.610 --> 00:50:22.809
John. Thanks for listening to Integrate This.
00:50:23.429 --> 00:50:25.530
Want to take your learning further? Head over
00:50:25.530 --> 00:50:28.289
to our YouTube channel for quick tutorials, deep
00:50:28.289 --> 00:50:31.289
dives, and more EdTech tips you can use right
00:50:31.289 --> 00:50:34.769
away. Don't forget to subscribe and catch new
00:50:34.769 --> 00:50:38.590
podcast episodes every Thursday on Apple, Spotify,
00:50:39.190 --> 00:50:41.889
or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next
00:50:41.889 --> 00:50:45.789
time, keep exploring, keep innovating, and keep
00:50:45.789 --> 00:50:46.670
integrating this.