Kiersten: Hello and welcome to Igniting Heart's podcast. Today is going to be a fun day. I have in the studio with me childhood friend who we later connected ⁓ adults. She's amazing. You've heard in her bio the wonderful things that she's been doing. And so Sarah, welcome to the podcast today. What do you do when your emotions are loud, your circumstances feel uncertain, and you don't even have the words to pray anymore? In this episode of Igniting Hearts, I sit down with my friend Sarah Rudd, pastor of Sego Lilly Church in Utah, to step into the Psalms as more than scripture to read, but as a living journey that gently directs you back to God. the Hearts Podcast where raw and unfiltered conversations spark healing, freedom, and purpose. This is a space for you to fuel your faith and ignite your heart so you can walk each day courageously. Friend, I'm your host, Kiersten Clegg, Join me and others.
Sarah Rudd: you
Kiersten: My guest today has some resources to offer you. Sarah has created a Psalms packet, including an article she wrote about the Selah Sarah has also compiled and included a resource to help you study the themes and context of Psalms. So check out the show notes to get the link for your free digital download
Sarah Rudd: Thank you. It's such a pleasure to be here. I appreciate the invitation to chat with you all ⁓
Kiersten: for an impactful conversation that is sure to inspire you to live fully, I'm so glad you are here. I'm excited for what you're gonna share today, parts of your story, parts of your journey, ⁓ I know thinking back to when we first met, ⁓ I was in grade school, second grade, you might have been a year ahead of me, but the Bible was a huge thing for us even back then, right? We were in a Christian school. We memorized how to... love deeply, and carry God's hope into every part of your world. Sarah's story carries the imprint of a lifelong journey in ministry and missions. Her life has been shaped by the landscapes and histories of the Northwest and Mexico and marked by a steady pursuit of God's presence in every season.
Sarah Rudd: Yes, yes.
Kiersten: and dive further into the Psalms. Find the books of the Bible forwards and backwards. Do you remember that?
Sarah Rudd: ⁓ Not exactly, Doesn't surprise me. ⁓
Kiersten: ⁓ my, This conversation invites you into the sacred rhythms of Selah the holy pause in the middle of it all where God reorients your heart, gives voice to your inner world and anchors again in truth. Sarah comes from amazing people. she's done some missionary work. She's a pastor. She's coming from Utah now. You've been in Utah how long? If you feel overwhelmed, unsure how to pray or in need of grounding, this episode will meet you where you are, and point you back to the one who is present in part of your journey.
Sarah Rudd: Just over 30 years, I just can't believe I've been here that long. Longer than anywhere else, that's for sure.
Kiersten: Quite a chunk. Amazing. Yes, such a beautiful portion of land and ⁓ God's doing beautiful things through you and your husband and your family there as you pastor a church. She's a well-prepared teacher. I've heard her speak in person before and she's amazing.
Sarah Rudd: you. I like to be prepared. I'm a Bible geek. There's no doubt about it. I love all the words, all the connections, just the relevance of it ⁓ and just mystery of it that it could be so beautiful thousands of years ago and still to this day it speaks to us. So yeah, I get into all the details.
Kiersten: that is my favorite. And today we're gonna get into a few details as well. I was chatting with Sarah a few weeks ago and felt the intensity might not be the right word, but the excitement maybe is a better word ⁓ ⁓ for the Psalms and your love for God's word and how it's impacted you ⁓ walked with you and carried you probably ⁓ so many ⁓ aspects of your journey. And so I'm
Sarah Rudd: Hahaha
Kiersten: excited Sarah to dive into looking at the Psalms and how we journey with God them. So how have they been a part of your journey all these years?
Sarah Rudd: Yes, we were talking about different subjects potentially to explore in this conversation mentioned a few and then we got to the Psalms and you were like, ⁓ I feel the passion there. And I was like, that's interesting. I would say that's true. The Psalms have just been foundational part of my life since the very beginning. they just brought a lot of to ⁓ ⁓ Has anybody asked if you were stranded on an island, book would you want? And I was like, the Psalms. ⁓ It'll help me get through. I just appreciate.
Kiersten: I love it. Yeah, they're powerful. ⁓
Sarah Rudd: When I was a little kid, the same time we were going to school, maybe a little older, junior high, there was a series of experiences in our neighborhood and in our sphere of influence of intruders. And so I became very afraid of intruders. And when I was about 12, 13, I was babysitting and I thought there was an intruder in the backyard. And my dear dad, he came to the rescue. but it was quite terrifying for me.
Kiersten: Mm-hmm.
Sarah Rudd: I was pretty upset and he just led me through Psalm 27 and that was the first time.
Kiersten: Yeah. Hmm.
Sarah Rudd: that I started to memorize scripture because of a need for myself. I was raised in a Christian home, so I was taught to memorize scripture, but this time it was like, oh, I need this. I need this to survive, to keep going, and to have faith in Jesus, to trust in Jesus. And so I memorized Psalm 27, and it really became a bedrock to this day.
Kiersten: Mm-hmm. Hmm.
Sarah Rudd: I will say it, I will repeat it, I will pray it. I love reading it in different translations. that was the beginning of the journey for me of saying, I need the Psalms. And then just throughout my life, because I love the Bible so much, I'll get into the gospels or I'll get into the prophets or whatever it is and just kind of sit there and meditate there. But in between,
Kiersten: Yeah.
Sarah Rudd: I will go back to the Psalms. And I've been in the Psalms for a little while here,
Kiersten: You
Sarah Rudd: I've learned recently kind of three things about the Psalms I think are really beautiful. One is that the Psalms direct our attention to God. They help us be human, ⁓ and they heal our ⁓ And those three things, what most appreciate about the Psalms.
Kiersten: Mm-hmm. ⁓ yes. Wow. ⁓ whether we're looking at scripture or whether we're just in prayer, God always is addressing who He is, who we are, and then that restoration process, because from Genesis to Revelation, it's all about redemption ⁓ restoration and relationship, right? And so I love that pulled even those three things. out of the journey that you've been on with the Psalms. That's beautiful. So you started off by saying it was about our attention ⁓ God. What that look like and what does that look like for you?
Sarah Rudd: So as teenagers we're figuring out who we are, right? And we're just dealing with the fear of man, 27 addresses the fear of man as well and I just think when we're trying to figure out our identity and who we are and what we're doing the Psalms can just bring us back to
Kiersten: Yeah.
Sarah Rudd: I'm here in your presence, Lord, I'm with you. Surely I will see your goodness in the land that I am living in and what can man do to me? And so just as a young person, just struggling with fear, fear of what people think of me, fear of violence or trouble or intrusion or harm.
Kiersten: Yes. Mm-hmm.
Sarah Rudd: I could kind of get in there and that Psalm would just bring me back to I'm gonna hide myself in your tabernacle I'm gonna hide myself in your wings as other Psalms say I'm I this is where I'm going to be comfortable and
Kiersten: Mmm.
Sarah Rudd: I was reading Psalm 84 and it said, Lord God of heaven's armies, ⁓ my prayer. That's one line. It's when you think of heaven's armies, you think of all of creation, the and the Lord's movement across the earth. But then it says, listen, ⁓ God of Jacob. And when I think of Jacob, I think of the intimacy of wrestling with God.
Kiersten: Yeah. Hmm. Yeah.
Sarah Rudd: just, I am a big picture person, always thinking kind of bird's eye view. And that can be sometimes overwhelming, sometimes awe inspiring, is beautiful. It gets our attention towards God. But then I remember he wants to wrestle with me and bless me and touch me and
Kiersten: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Sarah Rudd: That kind of bigness and then that intimacy gives me the equilibrium I need.
Kiersten: That's so good, that's so good. I love that line out of Psalm 84 where it is depicting God as the warrior, the head over all of heaven's armies. And so you see the defender, the fighter, the authority, you see the power, you see who he is. And then I love how it switches over and you said it.
Sarah Rudd: Really.
Kiersten: It's also depicting him as that personal, relational, intimate God. And I think that's what I also love about the Psalms you know, it gives us that ability to be honest I these fears, these anxieties. And so giving that honest assessment of how we're feeling and the emotions, but then also reminding us through the Psalms that we can always turn our gaze back. And I think Psalm 27 talks about that, doesn't it? there's just one thing that I want and that's to be in His presence. One thing to gaze upon His beauty. we're constantly in that tension between who He is and
Sarah Rudd: Hmm.
Kiersten: the reality of where we're at. So going back to your story, the reality of where you've been at, the things you've had to walk through, whether it be the fear as a youth or maybe I'm sure you have other examples and stories, how have the Psalms helped guide you to see both ⁓ ⁓ find the truth of who God is and the truth of who you are?
Sarah Rudd: 27 speaks to gazing on his beauty.
Kiersten: Mm-hmm.
Sarah Rudd: life be hard. People go through difficult things. And without beauty of the Lord, without the beauty of spending time with Him, spending time in creation with Him, I think I would lose hope. I just appreciate the written word and ⁓ the word, seeing God's word in creation, seeing God's ⁓ word work in people's lives. At the end of the day, know where the rubber meets the road, we are just human beings, ⁓ sorting life, life together, life with others, life in community. And I've that the Psalms really help me to remember that God is God and I am flesh
Kiersten: Mmm. Mm-hmm.
Sarah Rudd: the idea that the Psalms help us be human, they help us really talk about our sadness, ⁓ our joy, our grief, our anger. They help name ⁓ all the we have, ⁓ which we know, ⁓ we know ⁓ incarnate, God with us. experienced all those
Kiersten: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Sarah Rudd: But for some reason, it's hard to give ourselves permission to have all of those emotions and process them. And so that's part of the healing. But part of the being human is just recognizing our limits, our need for God. ⁓ ⁓ Aaron and I were ⁓ newly married,
Kiersten: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Sarah Rudd: and out of college and you're just like, where do we go next? ⁓ know, people are saying, join this, come do that. At that age in your life, there's just so much opportunity and you feel like, I don't know how to choose between all these opportunities. And remember one time we were just trying to discern God's will. What do we do? And I started praying Psalm 90.
Kiersten: Mm-hmm. Right?
Sarah Rudd: And Psalm 90 is the Psalm of Moses. Moses has other Psalms that you can find in other parts of the Bible, but this is the only one in the Book of Psalms. And it's not necessarily a cheerful Psalm. You know, we're like grass, we fade away.
Kiersten: Hmm.
Sarah Rudd: But there's a lot about our children and thinking generationally. long before the mountains were made, we were here. there's just that beautiful. intention that the God of the universe wants to direct our steps. what is is that Psalm then led me to study the life of Moses. ⁓ And there's beautiful book called Strengthening the Soul of Your Leadership by Ruth Haley Barton. I don't know if you've read it, but it's incredible. And I was like, it's every...
Kiersten: Mm. I haven't, ⁓ wow.
Sarah Rudd: every lesson I feel like I've learned over the last 30 years, She's put it in a book and it's just like a treasure to me. So I was like, Lord, there's so much here that I've experienced and seen over these years because I started with a Psalm. With Moses's heart cry, his honesty,
Kiersten: Mm. Wow.
Sarah Rudd: And so that Psalm became a way to move forward life and to direct our steps. Psalm 90 starts with, Lord, through all the generations, you have been our home. Before the mountains were born, before you gave birth to the earth and the world, from beginning to the end, you are God. Moses is speaking about the birth of the earth. and then asking the Lord to number his days, recognize his birth to his end. And I will say one of my favorite things about Moses is that the Lord buried him himself. And I've been with some people when they died, and it feels like one of the most intimate.
Kiersten: Wow. Hmm.
Sarah Rudd: sacred moments of life and that Moses had that kind of relationship with the Lord. That the Lord attended to his body and his burial. And so Psalm 90 is life Psalm for me. That the Lord is with me from when I am born to the day I die and everything in between. He's directing the work of my hands.
Kiersten: That's beautiful. I love that you're bringing the generational aspect ⁓ And even thinking back to Psalm 84 God being not only the commander of heaven's armies but the God of Jacob and how often God names himself as or the children of Israel name God as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, right? He's always talked about in generational, in family, so I love that you're even talking about Moses in the sense that both God and Moses understood that.
Sarah Rudd: Yeah, it's always relational. We always come God through relationship. ⁓ You say the God ⁓ of Lance, God of Sarah, the God of Kelsey, the God of Lacey, the that we ⁓ give our to, that I know that ⁓
Kiersten: Mm-hmm.
Sarah Rudd: I know that God.
Kiersten: Hmm?
Sarah Rudd: I was part of a book club in a neighborhood 45 minutes south of here. And it wasn't about God. It wasn't about the Bible. It was just a book club in my neighborhood.
Kiersten: Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Sarah Rudd: And three years later, I live up here and are some window washers that go to our church and they were washing somebody's windows and and they got in a conversation with the owner about God. the guy was like, hold on, I need you to meet my wife. He brings his wife into the conversation and they're talking with these window washers and she says, there any chance you know Sarah Rudd? ⁓ they're like, well, yes, we happen to go to the same church as her. And she's like, ⁓ knew it. The same spirit on you is on her. And not from our faith tradition, not from, ⁓ our background but she recognizes the spirit and
Kiersten: you Hmm.
Sarah Rudd: When we read the prayers of Moses, when we read the Psalm of Miriam, the prayer of Hannah, whatever it is, were receiving something that they had ⁓ and it's Spirit of God, it's the living Spirit of God that is in each one of us and people see that and so
Kiersten: Hmm. Yeah. Come on.
Sarah Rudd: I can read Moses's words as a leader. And then I'm like, I want to, why was he praying like this? And then I study his life. And then as a leader, I'm like, ⁓ my goodness, I can relate to you. And I can pray this prayer. And I can carry that presence that you carried. Cause you said, I'm not taking these people Lord without your presence. And so that was a prayer in the cleft of the rock in Exodus, right?
Kiersten: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. So good.
Sarah Rudd: And so here, was his prayer just for his own life, his ministry, his own leadership. So much, the story Exodus. We have the people of This Psalm gives us Moses's Psalm individually.
Kiersten: Mm. that's so good. Yes,
Sarah Rudd: I realized why I resonate so much with this Psalm? I realized God has called me to leadership And he's like, you keep praying this prayer because Moses was a leader and I want you to be a leader. so ⁓ was hard because I was wrestling with different paths before me. In fact, I ⁓ went school, even got a master's degree at a university here and I was defending my thesis and ⁓ thesis And was actually heartbreaking in the moment.
Kiersten: Mm-hmm. So good.
Sarah Rudd: published, I did a great job. But she said, you know, I see you more in like community organization. that was her verbiage. That was the Holy speaking through her to me. Yeah, I belong in leadership in the church and might do all sorts of other work in of different places.
Kiersten: Yeah.
Sarah Rudd: but this is my heart and my calling is to help serve the church in a leadership capacity. redirected me and Moses's Psalm helped me that.
Kiersten: amazing. I it's worth noting the Psalms helped you identify what God had created you ⁓ to do and to be, right? something in you connected to His Psalm. the of what he was going through. So it helped you identify your identity. And I feel like that's worth saying because I feel like there are some listeners out there, you've been reading through the Psalms or you've been reading through scripture or you've been asking God, what is my purpose? Who am I? How do you see me? What do I need to know? And God is saying, if you will read my word and grab a hold of that, ⁓ scripture that you keep coming back to and it's stirring something in you, stay in that place, whether it's in Psalms or somewhere else, but today we're talking about Psalms. Go to that place and ask the Holy Spirit to identify your identity through His Word ⁓ and see where He takes you and watch and see what He does and what doors He opens and He does internally in the in your soul in your spirit. I'll say it that way because I feel like that's what you're sharing with us from your story today.
Sarah Rudd: Yeah, and don't even know if I've ever had words for it. Just hearing you kind of repeat back what saying, which is what's so beautiful about conversations, right? With our brothers and sisters in Christ, but I never really put it together that Psalm 27, I was a teenager, had me learn to ground myself in the Lord's presence ⁓ first. ⁓
Kiersten: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sarah Rudd: And then Psalm 90, which was the next big one, taught me step into leadership. And then all the rest of the Psalms are sustaining me and helping me through the challenges ⁓ with family life work and life in community and life and leadership.
Kiersten: Yes.
Sarah Rudd: So it's like, he set you up and then his word sustains ⁓
Kiersten: Wow.
Sarah Rudd: God didn't just send Moses off and leave him. God doesn't send you or me off or any of the listeners. sends us and there will be trials and challenges along the way, but he's still with us and the Psalms have been that for me. So Psalm 112, a few years later, we have kids, we're older and a friend, a brother in our church comes and he's like, I really believe God wants you to hear Psalm 112. So at that point in our life, Aaron and I were both
Kiersten: Yes. Mm-hmm. Mm.
Sarah Rudd: elders in our church and serving in our church, but we worked ⁓ other jobs and Aaron's business was incredibly at the moment. Just ⁓ really difficult. and we get this Psalm and it just felt like was saying, I'm with you. I'm going prosper you. It's about not fearing bad news when it comes. And ⁓ we were dealing with some unknowns, some challenges.
Kiersten: Yes.
Sarah Rudd: so our friend brought us Psalm 112, and I just wanna read a couple parts. It says, how joyful are those who fear the Lord, their children will be successful, an entire generation of Godly people will be blessed. skipping a few verses, They do not fear bad news. They confidently trust the Lord to care for them. They are confident and fearless and can face their foes triumphantly. They share freely and give generously to those in need. So at that time there were there were just some things happening where we felt like we were losing our inheritance, losing parts in some business deals. and just being treated unfairly and it was frustrating ⁓ and
Kiersten: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Sarah Rudd: we profess it and we say this is ours. We are believing this God just redeemed it all and
Kiersten: Mm-hmm. Yes. Come on.
Sarah Rudd: as a family, we've embraced it and we believe for it. And there have been where it feels we're losing things ⁓ and times where God gives back. But we do not have to fear that bad news and I can just declare God's praises for that. Cuz I have seen him be faithful over and over again. So.
Kiersten: Hmm. Wow. So good. I'm hearing from you is that you stood on God's promises, right? They were words spoken to another, but applicable to us ⁓ all of God's word is. And stood and believed and grabbed ahold of it for yourself and by faith, because you aren't seeing it yet, right? So we walk by faith and not by sight, ⁓ but believing for
Sarah Rudd: Mm-hmm.
Kiersten: him to show ⁓ strong just like he did before, to show up and be the God who ⁓ release favor and does release success and does release prosperity and does release inheritance and all those things, even in the face of bad news, ⁓ in the middle of the mess, even ⁓ feel like people that are listening right now are in the middle of hard relational things, like even divorce, you're Fighting with God, do I do in this situation? And you're struggling and hard situations with finances and ⁓ at your workplace you're in this battle and you're being defamed or you're being disregarded or whatever it might be. I'm sensing people in the middle of that hard news, in the face of reality is saying, it doesn't look good.
Sarah Rudd: Yeah.
Kiersten: being able to, because of your story and because of God's word, grab ahold of scripture, grab ahold of a psalm, whether it's 112 - or another, and saying, I'm gonna fight with your word, oh God. I'm gonna fight with your promises. I always go back to Psalm 18. God, you are my stronghold. You are my defender. I keep reiterating to him, this is who you say you are. I know I can trust you. I know I can stand on your word. ⁓ seeing him for who he is gives me confidence, even in the middle of that situation, to know that he won't fail me. He won't forsake me. He will.
Sarah Rudd: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Kiersten: do what he says he will do. And that's what I'm hearing from aspect of your story.
Sarah Rudd: Yes, back to that wrestling. Like I have this big word out here ⁓ is overarching, that is for all of humanity, for everyone listening. But then it's it's Jacob, it's Sarah. Wrestle with me and let's figure this out. What does this blessing look like for me? ⁓
Kiersten: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm, so good.
Sarah Rudd: How do you want to do this Lord? And I believe it even though I don't see it at times. I'm old enough now. I'm 51. I'm just old enough now to just watch this journey, these mountains and these valleys. And it's so lovely. This is the beautiful thing about age and wisdom, right? Is I just, I can trust you and things plummet. I'm so excited when things are good, but I'm also sober and humble.
Kiersten: Yes. Yes.
Sarah Rudd: because just know how this goes. the Psalms just us and these prayers ground us. So there was a was a fourth century ⁓ church leader, theologian Athanasius, and he said most of scripture speaks to us, but the Psalms also for us. so I
Kiersten: So good. Mm-hmm. love that.
Sarah Rudd: I do too, because we learn so much, we learn so much, we learn so much. But then how do we respond to everything we're learning? Everything we're experiencing? do we respond? Sometimes we don't have vocabulary for the circumstances we are in. And I guarantee you, there is a Psalm for any circumstance you find yourself in.
Kiersten: Hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Yes.
Sarah Rudd: for every circumstance. There is a Psalm for you and for me speaks to your here now present moment if you don't have the vocabulary.
Kiersten: Hmm. That's worth pausing right there. That is so beautiful. I love that quote that you just shared. it's not just information, it's not just words, it's not just wisdom. but it's formation. It's not information, it's... formation, it's giving us the ability to be formed into who God has created us to be because seen other people walk through it and they've expressed their situations and their feelings and their emotions and given us ⁓ for their internal world. And so now we have language for our internal world, which God is transforming. the Psalms give us that platform, that foundation ⁓ And then the Holy Spirit and God get to start to form and transform us. And it's like us being on the potter's wheel. I don't think I've ever said that before in relation to the Psalms, but that's the sense that I'm feeling right now that this is give a defined place to sit with God and let him work, to sit with God and let him transform, to sit with God and let him, heal. You talked about that being one of the places that God revealed to you through the Psalms. Maybe we should go into that a little bit.
Sarah Rudd: Yes, oftentimes when we experience hardship or distress or sorrow or grief or betrayal, we don't have the words. Psalm 77. The other day I was praying this Psalm. When I was in deep trouble, I searched for the Lord. I prayed all night long, but my soul wasn't comforted. moaned, overwhelmed, longing for help. And then there's a Selah There's a pause there. I think so often we want to rush past the pain and the discomfort. I do. I want to. don't do well with pain. ⁓ a fix-it person. I'm a lets-move-forward person. But I've been learning how to sit with my own pain. And partly that is because I've been trying to be a better listener and sit with other people in their pain, ⁓ which been uncomfortable for
Kiersten: Wow.
Sarah Rudd: I mean that's what Jesus did with us and so I'm ⁓ to learn that that's what the Holy Spirit does with us. So the Selah there's this pause ⁓ in 77. This is, you don't let me sleep I am too ⁓ distressed even pray.
Kiersten: Mmm, so good. Mmm. Wow.
Sarah Rudd: And so thankful for the Psalmist's honesty. Just to be honest, there are times when we don't even have words to pray. And I'm thankful for the gift of the Holy Spirit that allows me to groan and intercede and just cry out ⁓ unintelligible words ⁓ a language from the Holy Spirit at the same time. I'm thankful for the Psalmist's honesty. there are times when we don't even have words to pray.
Kiersten: Mm-hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Yes. Right?
Sarah Rudd: It's okay if we don't even have words.
Kiersten: Yeah.
Sarah Rudd: But when we're the Psalms are there to give us the words. But when we're the Psalms are there to give us the words.
Kiersten: It's so good.
Sarah Rudd: Many years ago, I had a dream in the night where someone the told me to study three different passages scripture. And the other two books of the Bible, was familiar with them. I was like, OK, I know what those are about. OK, I'll study those. But the other one was, you need to study Psalm 55. I wake up, I'm like, I'm going on an adventure with God. You know, I'm studying these books of the Bible now and I'm studying this Psalm. And I pull up in Psalm 55 ⁓ and I read it and I'm just like,
Kiersten: Yes. Haha
Sarah Rudd: don't receive that? it's a psalm all about betrayal. And I had not been experiencing any betrayal. I was like, I don't know where this comes from. there will be no betrayal in my future. You know, trying... Yes.
Kiersten: ⁓ wow, yeah, You're like, I reject betrayal.
Sarah Rudd: God never sent people to betray me by any means, but I live on the planet with human nature and we are all bound to experience betrayal.
Kiersten: absolutely.
Sarah Rudd: was ⁓ crushed by things that happened in some relationships. this happens to all of us and we have our own part to play in of it. That said, it just it felt like a betrayal ⁓ And I started praying this Psalm. And it says some really ⁓
Kiersten: Hmm.
Sarah Rudd: brutal things. Don't me God. Listen, hear me. I'm overwhelmed. You know I have enemies they're shouting at me. My heart is pounding in my chest. So you know you you stop. There are Selahs again here and you're like yeah I need to breathe. I need to stop and breathe be still oh my soul. ⁓ Body be still.
Kiersten: Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes.
Sarah Rudd: I would love to just escape. ⁓ But then there's that turning point always in the Psalms. Because all the Psalms go from ⁓ We start with an orientation. Then we go through disorientation. And then we are reoriented. So that now that I'm saying that that even speaks to my whole life testimony. I have this orientation in Psalm 27 and Psalm 90.
Kiersten: Hmm. Wow, yeah. Mm-hmm.
Sarah Rudd: The last several years stepping into ministry full time, all of that, I've experienced a lot of disorientation. COVID, we started right before COVID and it helped our church see that transition. It was disorienting.
Kiersten: Yeah. ⁓ goodness. Tough season, wow, yes. Mm-hmm.
Sarah Rudd: then we get reoriented through the Psalms. I would go out on walks into my favorite park where I could see the full landscape, the mountains, the skies, and I would say, I will call on God and God will rescue me.
Kiersten: I love that.
Sarah Rudd: Morning, noon and night I cry out in my distress. God will hear me and humble them. We do get to say that. ⁓ And then a Selah- Think about it. The Lord will take care of this. I don't have to take care of this. The Lord's going to take care of me and them. give your burdens to the Lord he will take care of you.
Kiersten: Yes, yes, come on. Wow. So good. my goodness, that is so powerful. And I love this picture of the Selah and the and the just sitting. And I feel like, I mean, it's amazing God would even just drop that picture of a potter's wheel into my mind as we're talking, because I feel like that's kind of what it is. Like he's giving us space to just be and.
Sarah Rudd: you
Kiersten: He's the one that has to do it. He's the one that has to form. He's the one that has the power. sit, we surrender, we posture ourselves, we wait, we intertwine ourselves in Him, Psalm 18 talks about bonding ourselves to Him, which I love that language. And so Selah this pause, gives us space for Him.
Sarah Rudd: Mmm. ⁓
Kiersten: to reorient us And us speaking and praying and using language, aligns us with heaven so that we're actually declaring truth, right? We're declaring life, we're declaring what can change. ⁓ our situations and we have the ability to say, Lord, deal with that person. Yes. ⁓
Sarah Rudd: ⁓ actually say them. We can say have justice. Do what only you can Now we live in a new right? So we read the Psalms. There's a lot of really tough Psalms. So we read them in light of Jesus and the redemptive work on the cross.
Kiersten: Yes. Yeah.
Sarah Rudd: you were speaking about how it aligns us with God, but the Psalms also give us language to align how our bodies and how the world works and how we feel. And it gives us permission to be human, to say, would you deal with them? So that's Psalm 73.
Kiersten: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Sarah Rudd: I was really upset about some things that were happening just around me and with people that I love dearly. Just lot of injustice. and things that are just overwhelming. Like, God, I don't see how to fix this. ⁓ And the here, Asaph says, ⁓ As for me, I almost lost my footing. My feet were slipping. I was almost gone. I envied the proud when I see them prosper. They wear pride like jewel necklaces and clothe themselves with cruelty.
Kiersten: Mm-hmm. Hmm.
Sarah Rudd: They boast against the very heavens their words strut throughout the whole earth. And so people are dismayed and confused, drinking in all their words. What does God know? They ask. And I'm like, yeah, Lord, they're blaspheming you. Look what they're saying about you. Look what they're doing to your name. ⁓ Come ⁓
Kiersten: Mm. Right?
Sarah Rudd: Does the most high even know what's happening? we all like Peter and Thomas in the Bible because you know they say out loud what we're all thinking. ⁓ That's the Psalms. ⁓ Give us permission to say things we're like, man isn't exactly theologically correct. Of course God knows what's happening.
Kiersten: Yes, exactly. Hmm. Hmm. Mm-hmm, yes.
Sarah Rudd: But this is the reality of our experience.
Kiersten: Yeah.
Sarah Rudd: And so you for the Psalms that give me permission to say this. But then the humility. Then the humility. Asaph keeps complaining, as did I. Did I keep my heart pure for nothing?
Kiersten: So ⁓ Yes. the humility. ⁓ Yeah.
Sarah Rudd: Then verse 17, here's the reorientation part. Then I went into your sanctuary, oh God. And I finally understood their destiny. And then verse 21, now, oh God, forgive me. I realized my heart was bitter and I was all torn up inside. I was foolish and ignorant. And yet I still belong to you. You hold my right hand. You guide me with your counsel. Whom have I in heaven but you? I desire you more than anything on earth.
Kiersten: Hmm.
Sarah Rudd: My health may fail and my spirit may weak, but my God remains the strength of my heart is mine forever.
Kiersten: Mm-hmm. Mmm,
Sarah Rudd: I barely calm myself down to pray, I'm so
Kiersten: Mm-hmm.
Sarah Rudd: And I'm like, you do this.
Kiersten: No, that's so good, Sarah. I feel like that is resonating with the listeners who are tuning in because everyone is in that emotional state right now. There are so many, like the whole gamut like we talked about before, and there's so much ⁓ internal turmoil and emotional chaos. It's not just the atmosphere, is. ⁓
Sarah Rudd: Yes, yes. Yes.
Kiersten: but it's affecting us internally. And I feel like what you're saying, what you're sharing, your story, your testimonies, not giving people language, not just giving people permission, not just giving people the ability to see how the Psalms can help them navigate through it all. You're doing all of that. in this moment, your pastoral heart, giving people is a platform, whether it be on their knees or ⁓ walk around nature, wherever they find themselves at. They don't have to be sitting still physically, but internally can be creating space that Selah - that pause for the Holy Spirit to come and start. the process, They are in disoriented state right now and the Holy Spirit is saying, I want to reorient you. I want you to identify your identity. I want you to come ⁓ to grips with I am and ⁓ yes, the humanity who you are and what your reality states, ⁓ but now let speak life into your situation and remind you. where you're headed, where you're going, what I have for you, that you will see the goodness of God again in the land of the living, just like we started with Psalm 27. Would you pray for ⁓ us
Sarah Rudd: absolutely.
Kiersten: Amen. Amen. ⁓ thank you, Jesus. Sarah, thank you for joining us as this has been so beautiful, so rich. love. the way God has used the Psalms in your life and I'm praying that He will use them in the lives of our listeners better ways. We trust that He always takes us from glory to glory you audience for joining us today. Thank you for spending time in our conversation. we pray that you're not only blessed ⁓ as you go about your week, but that you experience the transformation that he has ⁓ for your life and way his word will do that for you you pause with him today. So be blessed and we'll see you back on yet another episode until then.
Sarah Rudd: you
Kiersten: My guest today has some resources to offer you. Sarah has created a Psalms packet, including an article she wrote about the Selah Sarah has also compiled and included a resource to help you study the themes and context of Psalms. So check out the show notes to get the link for your free digital download
Sarah Rudd: Thank you. It's such a pleasure to be here. I appreciate the invitation to chat with you all ⁓
Kiersten: for an impactful conversation that is sure to inspire you to live fully, I'm so glad you are here. I'm excited for what you're gonna share today, parts of your story, parts of your journey, ⁓ I know thinking back to when we first met, ⁓ I was in grade school, second grade, you might have been a year ahead of me, but the Bible was a huge thing for us even back then, right? We were in a Christian school. We memorized how to... love deeply, and carry God's hope into every part of your world. Sarah's story carries the imprint of a lifelong journey in ministry and missions. Her life has been shaped by the landscapes and histories of the Northwest and Mexico and marked by a steady pursuit of God's presence in every season.
Sarah Rudd: Yes, yes.
Kiersten: and dive further into the Psalms. Find the books of the Bible forwards and backwards. Do you remember that?
Sarah Rudd: ⁓ Not exactly, Doesn't surprise me. ⁓
Kiersten: ⁓ my, This conversation invites you into the sacred rhythms of Selah the holy pause in the middle of it all where God reorients your heart, gives voice to your inner world and anchors again in truth. Sarah comes from amazing people. she's done some missionary work. She's a pastor. She's coming from Utah now. You've been in Utah how long? If you feel overwhelmed, unsure how to pray or in need of grounding, this episode will meet you where you are, and point you back to the one who is present in part of your journey.
Sarah Rudd: Just over 30 years, I just can't believe I've been here that long. Longer than anywhere else, that's for sure.
Kiersten: Quite a chunk. Amazing. Yes, such a beautiful portion of land and ⁓ God's doing beautiful things through you and your husband and your family there as you pastor a church. She's a well-prepared teacher. I've heard her speak in person before and she's amazing.
Sarah Rudd: you. I like to be prepared. I'm a Bible geek. There's no doubt about it. I love all the words, all the connections, just the relevance of it ⁓ and just mystery of it that it could be so beautiful thousands of years ago and still to this day it speaks to us. So yeah, I get into all the details.
Kiersten: that is my favorite. And today we're gonna get into a few details as well. I was chatting with Sarah a few weeks ago and felt the intensity might not be the right word, but the excitement maybe is a better word ⁓ ⁓ for the Psalms and your love for God's word and how it's impacted you ⁓ walked with you and carried you probably ⁓ so many ⁓ aspects of your journey. And so I'm
Sarah Rudd: Hahaha
Kiersten: excited Sarah to dive into looking at the Psalms and how we journey with God them. So how have they been a part of your journey all these years?
Sarah Rudd: Yes, we were talking about different subjects potentially to explore in this conversation mentioned a few and then we got to the Psalms and you were like, ⁓ I feel the passion there. And I was like, that's interesting. I would say that's true. The Psalms have just been foundational part of my life since the very beginning. they just brought a lot of to ⁓ ⁓ Has anybody asked if you were stranded on an island, book would you want? And I was like, the Psalms. ⁓ It'll help me get through. I just appreciate.
Kiersten: I love it. Yeah, they're powerful. ⁓
Sarah Rudd: When I was a little kid, the same time we were going to school, maybe a little older, junior high, there was a series of experiences in our neighborhood and in our sphere of influence of intruders. And so I became very afraid of intruders. And when I was about 12, 13, I was babysitting and I thought there was an intruder in the backyard. And my dear dad, he came to the rescue. but it was quite terrifying for me.
Kiersten: Mm-hmm.
Sarah Rudd: I was pretty upset and he just led me through Psalm 27 and that was the first time.
Kiersten: Yeah. Hmm.
Sarah Rudd: that I started to memorize scripture because of a need for myself. I was raised in a Christian home, so I was taught to memorize scripture, but this time it was like, oh, I need this. I need this to survive, to keep going, and to have faith in Jesus, to trust in Jesus. And so I memorized Psalm 27, and it really became a bedrock to this day.
Kiersten: Mm-hmm. Hmm.
Sarah Rudd: I will say it, I will repeat it, I will pray it. I love reading it in different translations. that was the beginning of the journey for me of saying, I need the Psalms. And then just throughout my life, because I love the Bible so much, I'll get into the gospels or I'll get into the prophets or whatever it is and just kind of sit there and meditate there. But in between,
Kiersten: Yeah.
Sarah Rudd: I will go back to the Psalms. And I've been in the Psalms for a little while here,
Kiersten: You
Sarah Rudd: I've learned recently kind of three things about the Psalms I think are really beautiful. One is that the Psalms direct our attention to God. They help us be human, ⁓ and they heal our ⁓ And those three things, what most appreciate about the Psalms.
Kiersten: Mm-hmm. ⁓ yes. Wow. ⁓ whether we're looking at scripture or whether we're just in prayer, God always is addressing who He is, who we are, and then that restoration process, because from Genesis to Revelation, it's all about redemption ⁓ restoration and relationship, right? And so I love that pulled even those three things. out of the journey that you've been on with the Psalms. That's beautiful. So you started off by saying it was about our attention ⁓ God. What that look like and what does that look like for you?
Sarah Rudd: So as teenagers we're figuring out who we are, right? And we're just dealing with the fear of man, 27 addresses the fear of man as well and I just think when we're trying to figure out our identity and who we are and what we're doing the Psalms can just bring us back to
Kiersten: Yeah.
Sarah Rudd: I'm here in your presence, Lord, I'm with you. Surely I will see your goodness in the land that I am living in and what can man do to me? And so just as a young person, just struggling with fear, fear of what people think of me, fear of violence or trouble or intrusion or harm.
Kiersten: Yes. Mm-hmm.
Sarah Rudd: I could kind of get in there and that Psalm would just bring me back to I'm gonna hide myself in your tabernacle I'm gonna hide myself in your wings as other Psalms say I'm I this is where I'm going to be comfortable and
Kiersten: Mmm.
Sarah Rudd: I was reading Psalm 84 and it said, Lord God of heaven's armies, ⁓ my prayer. That's one line. It's when you think of heaven's armies, you think of all of creation, the and the Lord's movement across the earth. But then it says, listen, ⁓ God of Jacob. And when I think of Jacob, I think of the intimacy of wrestling with God.
Kiersten: Yeah. Hmm. Yeah.
Sarah Rudd: just, I am a big picture person, always thinking kind of bird's eye view. And that can be sometimes overwhelming, sometimes awe inspiring, is beautiful. It gets our attention towards God. But then I remember he wants to wrestle with me and bless me and touch me and
Kiersten: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Sarah Rudd: That kind of bigness and then that intimacy gives me the equilibrium I need.
Kiersten: That's so good, that's so good. I love that line out of Psalm 84 where it is depicting God as the warrior, the head over all of heaven's armies. And so you see the defender, the fighter, the authority, you see the power, you see who he is. And then I love how it switches over and you said it.
Sarah Rudd: Really.
Kiersten: It's also depicting him as that personal, relational, intimate God. And I think that's what I also love about the Psalms you know, it gives us that ability to be honest I these fears, these anxieties. And so giving that honest assessment of how we're feeling and the emotions, but then also reminding us through the Psalms that we can always turn our gaze back. And I think Psalm 27 talks about that, doesn't it? there's just one thing that I want and that's to be in His presence. One thing to gaze upon His beauty. we're constantly in that tension between who He is and
Sarah Rudd: Hmm.
Kiersten: the reality of where we're at. So going back to your story, the reality of where you've been at, the things you've had to walk through, whether it be the fear as a youth or maybe I'm sure you have other examples and stories, how have the Psalms helped guide you to see both ⁓ ⁓ find the truth of who God is and the truth of who you are?
Sarah Rudd: 27 speaks to gazing on his beauty.
Kiersten: Mm-hmm.
Sarah Rudd: life be hard. People go through difficult things. And without beauty of the Lord, without the beauty of spending time with Him, spending time in creation with Him, I think I would lose hope. I just appreciate the written word and ⁓ the word, seeing God's word in creation, seeing God's ⁓ word work in people's lives. At the end of the day, know where the rubber meets the road, we are just human beings, ⁓ sorting life, life together, life with others, life in community. And I've that the Psalms really help me to remember that God is God and I am flesh
Kiersten: Mmm. Mm-hmm.
Sarah Rudd: the idea that the Psalms help us be human, they help us really talk about our sadness, ⁓ our joy, our grief, our anger. They help name ⁓ all the we have, ⁓ which we know, ⁓ we know ⁓ incarnate, God with us. experienced all those
Kiersten: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Sarah Rudd: But for some reason, it's hard to give ourselves permission to have all of those emotions and process them. And so that's part of the healing. But part of the being human is just recognizing our limits, our need for God. ⁓ ⁓ Aaron and I were ⁓ newly married,
Kiersten: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Sarah Rudd: and out of college and you're just like, where do we go next? ⁓ know, people are saying, join this, come do that. At that age in your life, there's just so much opportunity and you feel like, I don't know how to choose between all these opportunities. And remember one time we were just trying to discern God's will. What do we do? And I started praying Psalm 90.
Kiersten: Mm-hmm. Right?
Sarah Rudd: And Psalm 90 is the Psalm of Moses. Moses has other Psalms that you can find in other parts of the Bible, but this is the only one in the Book of Psalms. And it's not necessarily a cheerful Psalm. You know, we're like grass, we fade away.
Kiersten: Hmm.
Sarah Rudd: But there's a lot about our children and thinking generationally. long before the mountains were made, we were here. there's just that beautiful. intention that the God of the universe wants to direct our steps. what is is that Psalm then led me to study the life of Moses. ⁓ And there's beautiful book called Strengthening the Soul of Your Leadership by Ruth Haley Barton. I don't know if you've read it, but it's incredible. And I was like, it's every...
Kiersten: Mm. I haven't, ⁓ wow.
Sarah Rudd: every lesson I feel like I've learned over the last 30 years, She's put it in a book and it's just like a treasure to me. So I was like, Lord, there's so much here that I've experienced and seen over these years because I started with a Psalm. With Moses's heart cry, his honesty,
Kiersten: Mm. Wow.
Sarah Rudd: And so that Psalm became a way to move forward life and to direct our steps. Psalm 90 starts with, Lord, through all the generations, you have been our home. Before the mountains were born, before you gave birth to the earth and the world, from beginning to the end, you are God. Moses is speaking about the birth of the earth. and then asking the Lord to number his days, recognize his birth to his end. And I will say one of my favorite things about Moses is that the Lord buried him himself. And I've been with some people when they died, and it feels like one of the most intimate.
Kiersten: Wow. Hmm.
Sarah Rudd: sacred moments of life and that Moses had that kind of relationship with the Lord. That the Lord attended to his body and his burial. And so Psalm 90 is life Psalm for me. That the Lord is with me from when I am born to the day I die and everything in between. He's directing the work of my hands.
Kiersten: That's beautiful. I love that you're bringing the generational aspect ⁓ And even thinking back to Psalm 84 God being not only the commander of heaven's armies but the God of Jacob and how often God names himself as or the children of Israel name God as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, right? He's always talked about in generational, in family, so I love that you're even talking about Moses in the sense that both God and Moses understood that.
Sarah Rudd: Yeah, it's always relational. We always come God through relationship. ⁓ You say the God ⁓ of Lance, God of Sarah, the God of Kelsey, the God of Lacey, the that we ⁓ give our to, that I know that ⁓
Kiersten: Mm-hmm.
Sarah Rudd: I know that God.
Kiersten: Hmm?
Sarah Rudd: I was part of a book club in a neighborhood 45 minutes south of here. And it wasn't about God. It wasn't about the Bible. It was just a book club in my neighborhood.
Kiersten: Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Sarah Rudd: And three years later, I live up here and are some window washers that go to our church and they were washing somebody's windows and and they got in a conversation with the owner about God. the guy was like, hold on, I need you to meet my wife. He brings his wife into the conversation and they're talking with these window washers and she says, there any chance you know Sarah Rudd? ⁓ they're like, well, yes, we happen to go to the same church as her. And she's like, ⁓ knew it. The same spirit on you is on her. And not from our faith tradition, not from, ⁓ our background but she recognizes the spirit and
Kiersten: you Hmm.
Sarah Rudd: When we read the prayers of Moses, when we read the Psalm of Miriam, the prayer of Hannah, whatever it is, were receiving something that they had ⁓ and it's Spirit of God, it's the living Spirit of God that is in each one of us and people see that and so
Kiersten: Hmm. Yeah. Come on.
Sarah Rudd: I can read Moses's words as a leader. And then I'm like, I want to, why was he praying like this? And then I study his life. And then as a leader, I'm like, ⁓ my goodness, I can relate to you. And I can pray this prayer. And I can carry that presence that you carried. Cause you said, I'm not taking these people Lord without your presence. And so that was a prayer in the cleft of the rock in Exodus, right?
Kiersten: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. So good.
Sarah Rudd: And so here, was his prayer just for his own life, his ministry, his own leadership. So much, the story Exodus. We have the people of This Psalm gives us Moses's Psalm individually.
Kiersten: Mm. that's so good. Yes,
Sarah Rudd: I realized why I resonate so much with this Psalm? I realized God has called me to leadership And he's like, you keep praying this prayer because Moses was a leader and I want you to be a leader. so ⁓ was hard because I was wrestling with different paths before me. In fact, I ⁓ went school, even got a master's degree at a university here and I was defending my thesis and ⁓ thesis And was actually heartbreaking in the moment.
Kiersten: Mm-hmm. So good.
Sarah Rudd: published, I did a great job. But she said, you know, I see you more in like community organization. that was her verbiage. That was the Holy speaking through her to me. Yeah, I belong in leadership in the church and might do all sorts of other work in of different places.
Kiersten: Yeah.
Sarah Rudd: but this is my heart and my calling is to help serve the church in a leadership capacity. redirected me and Moses's Psalm helped me that.
Kiersten: amazing. I it's worth noting the Psalms helped you identify what God had created you ⁓ to do and to be, right? something in you connected to His Psalm. the of what he was going through. So it helped you identify your identity. And I feel like that's worth saying because I feel like there are some listeners out there, you've been reading through the Psalms or you've been reading through scripture or you've been asking God, what is my purpose? Who am I? How do you see me? What do I need to know? And God is saying, if you will read my word and grab a hold of that, ⁓ scripture that you keep coming back to and it's stirring something in you, stay in that place, whether it's in Psalms or somewhere else, but today we're talking about Psalms. Go to that place and ask the Holy Spirit to identify your identity through His Word ⁓ and see where He takes you and watch and see what He does and what doors He opens and He does internally in the in your soul in your spirit. I'll say it that way because I feel like that's what you're sharing with us from your story today.
Sarah Rudd: Yeah, and don't even know if I've ever had words for it. Just hearing you kind of repeat back what saying, which is what's so beautiful about conversations, right? With our brothers and sisters in Christ, but I never really put it together that Psalm 27, I was a teenager, had me learn to ground myself in the Lord's presence ⁓ first. ⁓
Kiersten: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sarah Rudd: And then Psalm 90, which was the next big one, taught me step into leadership. And then all the rest of the Psalms are sustaining me and helping me through the challenges ⁓ with family life work and life in community and life and leadership.
Kiersten: Yes.
Sarah Rudd: So it's like, he set you up and then his word sustains ⁓
Kiersten: Wow.
Sarah Rudd: God didn't just send Moses off and leave him. God doesn't send you or me off or any of the listeners. sends us and there will be trials and challenges along the way, but he's still with us and the Psalms have been that for me. So Psalm 112, a few years later, we have kids, we're older and a friend, a brother in our church comes and he's like, I really believe God wants you to hear Psalm 112. So at that point in our life, Aaron and I were both
Kiersten: Yes. Mm-hmm. Mm.
Sarah Rudd: elders in our church and serving in our church, but we worked ⁓ other jobs and Aaron's business was incredibly at the moment. Just ⁓ really difficult. and we get this Psalm and it just felt like was saying, I'm with you. I'm going prosper you. It's about not fearing bad news when it comes. And ⁓ we were dealing with some unknowns, some challenges.
Kiersten: Yes.
Sarah Rudd: so our friend brought us Psalm 112, and I just wanna read a couple parts. It says, how joyful are those who fear the Lord, their children will be successful, an entire generation of Godly people will be blessed. skipping a few verses, They do not fear bad news. They confidently trust the Lord to care for them. They are confident and fearless and can face their foes triumphantly. They share freely and give generously to those in need. So at that time there were there were just some things happening where we felt like we were losing our inheritance, losing parts in some business deals. and just being treated unfairly and it was frustrating ⁓ and
Kiersten: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Sarah Rudd: we profess it and we say this is ours. We are believing this God just redeemed it all and
Kiersten: Mm-hmm. Yes. Come on.
Sarah Rudd: as a family, we've embraced it and we believe for it. And there have been where it feels we're losing things ⁓ and times where God gives back. But we do not have to fear that bad news and I can just declare God's praises for that. Cuz I have seen him be faithful over and over again. So.
Kiersten: Hmm. Wow. So good. I'm hearing from you is that you stood on God's promises, right? They were words spoken to another, but applicable to us ⁓ all of God's word is. And stood and believed and grabbed ahold of it for yourself and by faith, because you aren't seeing it yet, right? So we walk by faith and not by sight, ⁓ but believing for
Sarah Rudd: Mm-hmm.
Kiersten: him to show ⁓ strong just like he did before, to show up and be the God who ⁓ release favor and does release success and does release prosperity and does release inheritance and all those things, even in the face of bad news, ⁓ in the middle of the mess, even ⁓ feel like people that are listening right now are in the middle of hard relational things, like even divorce, you're Fighting with God, do I do in this situation? And you're struggling and hard situations with finances and ⁓ at your workplace you're in this battle and you're being defamed or you're being disregarded or whatever it might be. I'm sensing people in the middle of that hard news, in the face of reality is saying, it doesn't look good.
Sarah Rudd: Yeah.
Kiersten: being able to, because of your story and because of God's word, grab ahold of scripture, grab ahold of a psalm, whether it's 112 - or another, and saying, I'm gonna fight with your word, oh God. I'm gonna fight with your promises. I always go back to Psalm 18. God, you are my stronghold. You are my defender. I keep reiterating to him, this is who you say you are. I know I can trust you. I know I can stand on your word. ⁓ seeing him for who he is gives me confidence, even in the middle of that situation, to know that he won't fail me. He won't forsake me. He will.
Sarah Rudd: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Kiersten: do what he says he will do. And that's what I'm hearing from aspect of your story.
Sarah Rudd: Yes, back to that wrestling. Like I have this big word out here ⁓ is overarching, that is for all of humanity, for everyone listening. But then it's it's Jacob, it's Sarah. Wrestle with me and let's figure this out. What does this blessing look like for me? ⁓
Kiersten: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm, so good.
Sarah Rudd: How do you want to do this Lord? And I believe it even though I don't see it at times. I'm old enough now. I'm 51. I'm just old enough now to just watch this journey, these mountains and these valleys. And it's so lovely. This is the beautiful thing about age and wisdom, right? Is I just, I can trust you and things plummet. I'm so excited when things are good, but I'm also sober and humble.
Kiersten: Yes. Yes.
Sarah Rudd: because just know how this goes. the Psalms just us and these prayers ground us. So there was a was a fourth century ⁓ church leader, theologian Athanasius, and he said most of scripture speaks to us, but the Psalms also for us. so I
Kiersten: So good. Mm-hmm. love that.
Sarah Rudd: I do too, because we learn so much, we learn so much, we learn so much. But then how do we respond to everything we're learning? Everything we're experiencing? do we respond? Sometimes we don't have vocabulary for the circumstances we are in. And I guarantee you, there is a Psalm for any circumstance you find yourself in.
Kiersten: Hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Yes.
Sarah Rudd: for every circumstance. There is a Psalm for you and for me speaks to your here now present moment if you don't have the vocabulary.
Kiersten: Hmm. That's worth pausing right there. That is so beautiful. I love that quote that you just shared. it's not just information, it's not just words, it's not just wisdom. but it's formation. It's not information, it's... formation, it's giving us the ability to be formed into who God has created us to be because seen other people walk through it and they've expressed their situations and their feelings and their emotions and given us ⁓ for their internal world. And so now we have language for our internal world, which God is transforming. the Psalms give us that platform, that foundation ⁓ And then the Holy Spirit and God get to start to form and transform us. And it's like us being on the potter's wheel. I don't think I've ever said that before in relation to the Psalms, but that's the sense that I'm feeling right now that this is give a defined place to sit with God and let him work, to sit with God and let him transform, to sit with God and let him, heal. You talked about that being one of the places that God revealed to you through the Psalms. Maybe we should go into that a little bit.
Sarah Rudd: Yes, oftentimes when we experience hardship or distress or sorrow or grief or betrayal, we don't have the words. Psalm 77. The other day I was praying this Psalm. When I was in deep trouble, I searched for the Lord. I prayed all night long, but my soul wasn't comforted. moaned, overwhelmed, longing for help. And then there's a Selah There's a pause there. I think so often we want to rush past the pain and the discomfort. I do. I want to. don't do well with pain. ⁓ a fix-it person. I'm a lets-move-forward person. But I've been learning how to sit with my own pain. And partly that is because I've been trying to be a better listener and sit with other people in their pain, ⁓ which been uncomfortable for
Kiersten: Wow.
Sarah Rudd: I mean that's what Jesus did with us and so I'm ⁓ to learn that that's what the Holy Spirit does with us. So the Selah there's this pause ⁓ in 77. This is, you don't let me sleep I am too ⁓ distressed even pray.
Kiersten: Mmm, so good. Mmm. Wow.
Sarah Rudd: And so thankful for the Psalmist's honesty. Just to be honest, there are times when we don't even have words to pray. And I'm thankful for the gift of the Holy Spirit that allows me to groan and intercede and just cry out ⁓ unintelligible words ⁓ a language from the Holy Spirit at the same time. I'm thankful for the Psalmist's honesty. there are times when we don't even have words to pray.
Kiersten: Mm-hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Yes. Right?
Sarah Rudd: It's okay if we don't even have words.
Kiersten: Yeah.
Sarah Rudd: But when we're the Psalms are there to give us the words. But when we're the Psalms are there to give us the words.
Kiersten: It's so good.
Sarah Rudd: Many years ago, I had a dream in the night where someone the told me to study three different passages scripture. And the other two books of the Bible, was familiar with them. I was like, OK, I know what those are about. OK, I'll study those. But the other one was, you need to study Psalm 55. I wake up, I'm like, I'm going on an adventure with God. You know, I'm studying these books of the Bible now and I'm studying this Psalm. And I pull up in Psalm 55 ⁓ and I read it and I'm just like,
Kiersten: Yes. Haha
Sarah Rudd: don't receive that? it's a psalm all about betrayal. And I had not been experiencing any betrayal. I was like, I don't know where this comes from. there will be no betrayal in my future. You know, trying... Yes.
Kiersten: ⁓ wow, yeah, You're like, I reject betrayal.
Sarah Rudd: God never sent people to betray me by any means, but I live on the planet with human nature and we are all bound to experience betrayal.
Kiersten: absolutely.
Sarah Rudd: was ⁓ crushed by things that happened in some relationships. this happens to all of us and we have our own part to play in of it. That said, it just it felt like a betrayal ⁓ And I started praying this Psalm. And it says some really ⁓
Kiersten: Hmm.
Sarah Rudd: brutal things. Don't me God. Listen, hear me. I'm overwhelmed. You know I have enemies they're shouting at me. My heart is pounding in my chest. So you know you you stop. There are Selahs again here and you're like yeah I need to breathe. I need to stop and breathe be still oh my soul. ⁓ Body be still.
Kiersten: Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes.
Sarah Rudd: I would love to just escape. ⁓ But then there's that turning point always in the Psalms. Because all the Psalms go from ⁓ We start with an orientation. Then we go through disorientation. And then we are reoriented. So that now that I'm saying that that even speaks to my whole life testimony. I have this orientation in Psalm 27 and Psalm 90.
Kiersten: Hmm. Wow, yeah. Mm-hmm.
Sarah Rudd: The last several years stepping into ministry full time, all of that, I've experienced a lot of disorientation. COVID, we started right before COVID and it helped our church see that transition. It was disorienting.
Kiersten: Yeah. ⁓ goodness. Tough season, wow, yes. Mm-hmm.
Sarah Rudd: then we get reoriented through the Psalms. I would go out on walks into my favorite park where I could see the full landscape, the mountains, the skies, and I would say, I will call on God and God will rescue me.
Kiersten: I love that.
Sarah Rudd: Morning, noon and night I cry out in my distress. God will hear me and humble them. We do get to say that. ⁓ And then a Selah- Think about it. The Lord will take care of this. I don't have to take care of this. The Lord's going to take care of me and them. give your burdens to the Lord he will take care of you.
Kiersten: Yes, yes, come on. Wow. So good. my goodness, that is so powerful. And I love this picture of the Selah and the and the just sitting. And I feel like, I mean, it's amazing God would even just drop that picture of a potter's wheel into my mind as we're talking, because I feel like that's kind of what it is. Like he's giving us space to just be and.
Sarah Rudd: you
Kiersten: He's the one that has to do it. He's the one that has to form. He's the one that has the power. sit, we surrender, we posture ourselves, we wait, we intertwine ourselves in Him, Psalm 18 talks about bonding ourselves to Him, which I love that language. And so Selah this pause, gives us space for Him.
Sarah Rudd: Mmm. ⁓
Kiersten: to reorient us And us speaking and praying and using language, aligns us with heaven so that we're actually declaring truth, right? We're declaring life, we're declaring what can change. ⁓ our situations and we have the ability to say, Lord, deal with that person. Yes. ⁓
Sarah Rudd: ⁓ actually say them. We can say have justice. Do what only you can Now we live in a new right? So we read the Psalms. There's a lot of really tough Psalms. So we read them in light of Jesus and the redemptive work on the cross.
Kiersten: Yes. Yeah.
Sarah Rudd: you were speaking about how it aligns us with God, but the Psalms also give us language to align how our bodies and how the world works and how we feel. And it gives us permission to be human, to say, would you deal with them? So that's Psalm 73.
Kiersten: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Sarah Rudd: I was really upset about some things that were happening just around me and with people that I love dearly. Just lot of injustice. and things that are just overwhelming. Like, God, I don't see how to fix this. ⁓ And the here, Asaph says, ⁓ As for me, I almost lost my footing. My feet were slipping. I was almost gone. I envied the proud when I see them prosper. They wear pride like jewel necklaces and clothe themselves with cruelty.
Kiersten: Mm-hmm. Hmm.
Sarah Rudd: They boast against the very heavens their words strut throughout the whole earth. And so people are dismayed and confused, drinking in all their words. What does God know? They ask. And I'm like, yeah, Lord, they're blaspheming you. Look what they're saying about you. Look what they're doing to your name. ⁓ Come ⁓
Kiersten: Mm. Right?
Sarah Rudd: Does the most high even know what's happening? we all like Peter and Thomas in the Bible because you know they say out loud what we're all thinking. ⁓ That's the Psalms. ⁓ Give us permission to say things we're like, man isn't exactly theologically correct. Of course God knows what's happening.
Kiersten: Yes, exactly. Hmm. Hmm. Mm-hmm, yes.
Sarah Rudd: But this is the reality of our experience.
Kiersten: Yeah.
Sarah Rudd: And so you for the Psalms that give me permission to say this. But then the humility. Then the humility. Asaph keeps complaining, as did I. Did I keep my heart pure for nothing?
Kiersten: So ⁓ Yes. the humility. ⁓ Yeah.
Sarah Rudd: Then verse 17, here's the reorientation part. Then I went into your sanctuary, oh God. And I finally understood their destiny. And then verse 21, now, oh God, forgive me. I realized my heart was bitter and I was all torn up inside. I was foolish and ignorant. And yet I still belong to you. You hold my right hand. You guide me with your counsel. Whom have I in heaven but you? I desire you more than anything on earth.
Kiersten: Hmm.
Sarah Rudd: My health may fail and my spirit may weak, but my God remains the strength of my heart is mine forever.
Kiersten: Mm-hmm. Mmm,
Sarah Rudd: I barely calm myself down to pray, I'm so
Kiersten: Mm-hmm.
Sarah Rudd: And I'm like, you do this.
Kiersten: No, that's so good, Sarah. I feel like that is resonating with the listeners who are tuning in because everyone is in that emotional state right now. There are so many, like the whole gamut like we talked about before, and there's so much ⁓ internal turmoil and emotional chaos. It's not just the atmosphere, is. ⁓
Sarah Rudd: Yes, yes. Yes.
Kiersten: but it's affecting us internally. And I feel like what you're saying, what you're sharing, your story, your testimonies, not giving people language, not just giving people permission, not just giving people the ability to see how the Psalms can help them navigate through it all. You're doing all of that. in this moment, your pastoral heart, giving people is a platform, whether it be on their knees or ⁓ walk around nature, wherever they find themselves at. They don't have to be sitting still physically, but internally can be creating space that Selah - that pause for the Holy Spirit to come and start. the process, They are in disoriented state right now and the Holy Spirit is saying, I want to reorient you. I want you to identify your identity. I want you to come ⁓ to grips with I am and ⁓ yes, the humanity who you are and what your reality states, ⁓ but now let speak life into your situation and remind you. where you're headed, where you're going, what I have for you, that you will see the goodness of God again in the land of the living, just like we started with Psalm 27. Would you pray for ⁓ us
Sarah Rudd: absolutely.
Kiersten: Amen. Amen. ⁓ thank you, Jesus. Sarah, thank you for joining us as this has been so beautiful, so rich. love. the way God has used the Psalms in your life and I'm praying that He will use them in the lives of our listeners better ways. We trust that He always takes us from glory to glory you audience for joining us today. Thank you for spending time in our conversation. we pray that you're not only blessed ⁓ as you go about your week, but that you experience the transformation that he has ⁓ for your life and way his word will do that for you you pause with him today. So be blessed and we'll see you back on yet another episode until then.
