Greg Morrow

WEBVTT
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I want to say your name right the way.
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Is it Morrow?
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Yeah, Morrow, like Tomorrow.
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That's what I thought, but I just because you know, could yeah, anyway.
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Well.
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I've answered divorce.
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I understand.
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Um.
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I'm in Nashville with Greg Morrow.
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Hey.
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Great to have you here, man.
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Thank you.
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Thank you so much on this uh extremely hot morning already.
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It's uh gonna be 98 today, folks, in Nashville.
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Uh Greg Morrow.
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We were I was just talking to you about the pronunciation of your name.
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What it's w what Morrow?
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Is that another way people No, well they they say it any number of ways, but yeah, they I get marrow a lot, you know, because I think it's like bone marrow, but no, it's not an A, it's an O.
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Yeah, yeah.
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But uh so anytime anytime someone looks puzzled, I just say it's Morrow like tomorrow.
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Yeah.
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And they go, Oh, I get it, Tom Morrow.
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Right.
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Because my my given first name is Thomas, but so it's actually T G?
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Is it Thomas Gregory?
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Yeah, Thomas Gregory.
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Okay, why did you why did you go by Greg?
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Uh, because my mom said to Mom says so.
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Well, yeah, I mean that's that's they determined that, you know.
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Right.
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My mom and dad.
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Yeah.
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So right, right, right.
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It's okay.
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By the way, you were just saying before we rolled tape, you you did a gig last night with a bunch of New York guys.
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I did, yeah.
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It was two Rubes and a bunch of Yankees.
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I love it.
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It was me, uh, Audley Freed and I, we were the Rubes.
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Oh, Audley Freed, yeah.
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Audley was there.
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He's the one that kind of told him to call me to be the second drummer on this thing.
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And so it was like a bunch of Yankees and two Rubes.
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Love it.
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Love it.
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It was fun.
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We had a good time.
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Yeah.
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What was the thing again?
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You were doing a lot of uh It was, yeah, it was uh Peter Levin, uh who's one of the four that I had never met before.
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But anyway, he he he called and uh he had this thing going.
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They were gonna do this gig uh that was a 50th, celebrating the 50th anniversary of the Watkins Glen, you know, festival thing uh from back in the day, it's kind of famous, infamous kind of show that was um the band and the Almond Brothers and the Grateful Dead.
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And uh so, you know, two of the three of those bands had two drummers, so he won, you know, he wanted to do two drummers, and you know, that's always an intriguing prospect because it's something that you really don't do a whole lot of these days.
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But um uh Eric Cowb was the other drummer, and uh, and you know, it's one of those things, the moment of truth comes, and you know, you count a song off, and then you see where the pocket lands, and and fortunately for us, we kind of felt at the exact same place, and so it was it was not even remotely a struggle, it was really fun.
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Yeah, because it was no rehearsal, I take it.
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We rehearsed the afternoon of the first show in the venue.
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So like during soundcheck?
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Pretty much.
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It was like a four and a half hour sound check, and then we showed and then we played together.
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Okay, so you did have rehearsal.
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Okay.
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Well, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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And you got to feel it out a little bit, that double drumming thing.
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Oh, yeah, yeah.
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Did you did you just have any discussion of who's gonna kind of lead rhythm drums and who doesn't well just in very vague terms, the most obvious thing that uh was what you know, and the Allman Brothers that that that was a much more those two roles, the J-Mo Butch roles, were pretty defined.
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You know, you could really tell who was doing what.
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So uh, you know, we we you be Butch, I be J-Mo, or whichever.
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That's what I was gonna say.
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So how did that go down?
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Who was Butch, who was J Mo?
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I was more J-Mo, he was more Butch.
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Okay, I got it.
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Yeah, I got it.
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So that's actually a good way to do it, yeah.
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And the the the really fun one, as it turns out, was um we did whipping post, and and the the the fun one of that is is is the Butch roles playing kind of halftime.
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And and the J-Mo's do.
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So it's it's like a full-time under a halftime, so it's a it's a big push-pull fret crane thing.
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It's really fun.
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Now that is using the Dumble drummer thing.
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Oh, yeah, yeah.
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And they they did, you know, they they were very complimentary of each other's styles, you know.
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They they knew their roles, I guess you'd say.
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Yeah, because I obviously you had studied that enough, like you understood all that.
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Oh, Fillmore, for a while, when I was, you know, a young fella uh in high school and all that stuff, fill Fillmore, you go through these stages where you obsess about something, and and for every night for you know, some number of weeks I would go to bed with my headphones on, listening to one side or the other of Fillmore.
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Yeah.
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Just it's just what you did.
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So those were your guys early on.
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Well, the uh they were certainly two of them.
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Uh that that record was pretty formative for for me, that Fillmore East record.
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Who else were some of your guys back then in the early days?
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Like a young man.
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Uh, well, uh, you know, the obvious ones are Ringo and Charlie Watts, and and oddly enough, who I thought was Dave Clark was not.
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Right.
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It was Bobby Graham, mostly.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And and as it turns out, you know, he was also in the kinks.
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And in that's right.
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That's right.
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Not unlike what we go through here session, you know, session player-wise, yeah, you know, it and it's all okay.
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Yeah.
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But you listen now and you go, oh, no, yeah, that absolutely was not Dave Clark.
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You know, because you he did play on some stuff, and you can kind of tell when he played and when Bobby Graham played, you know.
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Right, right.
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That was very good.
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It's so good.
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Like really good.
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That's Bobby.
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Yeah.
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All that stuff, you know, that stuff was the uh and and and even just a little bit before that, before I even knew, you know, names or anything, I uh uh being from Memphis, little Sun 45s were everywhere because they just throw them in the back of a trunk and go set up a rack in a dime store or a drugstore or anything like that, and just shove it full of Sun 45s of whatever they had, you know.
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And so Jerry Lee Lewis and uh Billy Lee Riley and you know, a lot of that early Sun stuff, which was JM Van Eaton, obviously.
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Uh and and he was just he was a wild card man.
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He and he wasn't old as nothing.
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He was, I still think, a late teenager when he cut a lot of that, it's a whole lot of shaking and stuff like that.
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And it's just, you know, full of fire and spirit and abandon and you know, all those things that when you're a kid, you go, Oh my god, well, you know, something's working your monkey nerve and you don't really know what it is.
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It's that energy, you know.
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Um so there was that, and uh all that kind of came from my my dad's little brother.
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He was he was a teenager when when I was born, and and he had uh a little stack of 78s, you know, uh little Richard and Fats Domino and stuff like that, which was a little bit unusual in in the small town they were from.
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I I still don't really know where he got them.
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Right, but he did, he had them.
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Um and then you had access to that.
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Yeah, yeah.
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That was some of the very first stuff I heard, you know, Little Richard 78, Brady Teddy, and stuff like that.
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Yeah.
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And it was, you know, my.
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Yeah, he had that one too, yeah.
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Right.
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Did you recognize it when you heard Bonham do Rock and Roll?
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Like, did you know you're doing Little Richard or no?
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Well, uh at the time I didn't because the the way he phrased the accents, it was not a direct rip.
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Uh the his accent pattern, it took me a long time to identify where his downbeat was.
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Yeah.
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And you know, yeah.
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Because I always um well anyway, regardless of whatever, I always misidentified where the downbeat was for a long time, you know.
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But when when Black Dog came out, or when that album that four came out with rock and roll on it, uh that was 73.
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Was it 73?
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So it was very early 70s, maybe 71.
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Uh I was only 13.
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You know, so you know, you're still figuring stuff.
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You know, you don't really know is it this or is it that or something?
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Of course, you work it up the best you can.
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And but yeah, once once the light bulb came on side, oh, of course, you know, that's what that is.
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But you like Bonham.
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Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Yeah, he he he was really, you know, an innovator is in terms of heavy drumming, you know, but still having some feel involved in it, you know.
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Of course.
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But along with that, see, uh uh uh Donnie Brewer was to me, he was like the bottom, America's bottom.
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Because he was a heavy drummer.
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He was a very heavy drummer, but he had really good time.
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Uh and he wrote and he sang.
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I mean, he you know, he wrote the probably the biggest single they ever had and sang it.
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We're an American band.
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True.
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It's his song, his vocal, you know, and he still plays his butt off.
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You ever meet him?
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Yeah, I did.
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In the most odd of circumstances, he, you know, he for years he played with Bob Seeger, and um uh because Craig Frost, who was in Grand Funk, Donnie got Craig in Grand Funk, and then Craig got Donnie in Seeger's band.
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So it's kind of one of those funny moments.
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I totally forgot he played with Seeger.
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Yeah, he did for a long time.
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And I don't know exactly what went on or went down or whatever, but uh I got a call from uh Seeger's management one day um asking if I thought I might be interested in maybe coming up and playing a little bit and maybe doing some gigs.
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And I said, Well, yeah, of course.
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Yeah, sure.
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And you know, and I had a couple of friends in that band that were from here.
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Some of the guys are are based here, and um went up and played, and you know, next thing I know they're talking tour and all this stuff, and I knew I knew Donnie had been had been playing, and I never really asked, you know, it's none of my business what the deal was.
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Uh but as it turns out, on some of those shows, Grand Funk opened for us.
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And and I'm like, wow, this is really weird.
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I'm in Donnie's chair, you know, playing a gig he's been playing for 25 years, and and and he's here playing too.
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Opening.
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Yeah, well, yeah, I mean Okay.
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From a technical standpoint, that's what it is.
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No, no, no, I know, I know.
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And that's but that's that's one of your heroes.
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Oh yeah, and I I'm I I was as I have gotten older, it has been kind of a thing of of mine to let people know if if they if they were what they meant to me on on some level.
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You know what I'm saying?
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People that were special to me, yeah, and and and I consider helped me along by studying what they did and and loving what they did and finding inspiration there.
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It doesn't really matter to me if they care or not.
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I want to tell them.
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Well, did you get that vibe with him that he as if he didn't care?
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I no, I think he was uh no, I think he did I I think it I think he was a bit amused by it, like that's great, but you're here, you know, here you are playing this stuff.
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You know what I'm saying?
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I I think he he uh Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Yeah, I I I feel like he appreciated the sentiment and he was very kind to me.
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He was very nice and you know let me fanboy him and all that stuff.
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I I it's nice to hear that like you fanboy, that's what I'm saying.
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That's also very heartwarming, you know, that that you can you can turn into fanboy.
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Well, sure you can.
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I think that's great.
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I love it.
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I love it.
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I mean, when when people when people are formative in your life, yeah, you know, it doesn't hurt anything to let them know that.
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Absolutely.
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Now, have b by the way, speaking of that, have you ever had experience where you've gotten to meet a hero and idol and it just didn't go as you'd hoped?
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And y yeah, but that's a lesson too.
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Right, right.
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So it's happened, right?
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It has.
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Yeah, it has.
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There's disappointments.
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You know, I I I I don't let it disappoint me.
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I'm just like, okay.
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You know, that's that's an that's another way to see it, you know.
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Right, right.
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You know what I mean?
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It's not of course.
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I mean, I'm not gonna we don't have to name names, although I've said it before.
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Robbie Robertson put my hand out, just want to say thank you.
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I mean, he just looked at my hand and walked.
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I was at mid-sentence, walked away.
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Um, yeah.
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You know, it's gonna happen, I guess, uh, certain people.
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You don't have to name names, but I'm saying, like, you've you've experienced this, I even I would imagine just artists who who they maybe they don't know who you are.
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It's just yeah, it's it's it's more that side of thing than what you would say a peer, in other words, someone who does what you you do, yes, you know, another drummer or something.
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I I don't know that I've ever gotten that from a drummer.
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From other drummers.
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Because the drummers are the coolest and they just are you know they they generally are fairly grounded people and and accepting of you know of the role of yeah, you're always on the back line unless you're Levon or somebody.
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Sure, sure, sure.
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You know, it's it's a very it's a it's a s it's a support-based role, but it's really important, you know, if you get up there and muck things up, or or sort of like, yeah, well, I'm just gonna stop.
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Y'all try rocking now.
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Right.
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You know, see if you can rock now while I stop.
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But at the same time, in other words, you could look at the guitar players and the bass players and keys players out of a support role as well, and I guess it's that idea of like drummers are such a great bond and brotherhood.
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And like I'm gonna ask you, I mean, you've been around longer.
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I mean, the idea of do you see guitar players having that kind of brotherhood?
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Um, it's different, isn't it?
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It is different because you know, it's almost like the old blues got a head cutting thing.
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They almost like, yeah, hey man.
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Yeah, great to meet you.
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Yeah, he's got very suspicious eyes.
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Yeah, he's putting the suspicious look up and down.
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Yeah.
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Who are you?
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What do you got?
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Hey, bro.
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Yeah.
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Oh, nice act.
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Right.
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Woo!
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Well, it's it's the old like it's like the light bulb guitar player joke, right?
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You know?
00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:44.000
Yeah.
00:15:44.240 --> 00:15:44.480
Yeah.
00:15:44.639 --> 00:15:48.159
How many guitar players does it take to change a light bulb?
00:15:48.320 --> 00:15:48.720
Yeah.
00:15:48.879 --> 00:15:52.159
The one got to do it and 20 to say I could have done that.
00:15:52.320 --> 00:15:52.960
Thank you.
00:15:53.279 --> 00:15:53.679
Thank you.
00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:55.440
And that's real, right?
00:15:55.519 --> 00:15:57.600
I mean, again, in your experience, right?
00:15:58.080 --> 00:16:01.679
Like just do bass players have bass player hangs?
00:16:01.919 --> 00:16:03.360
And do they have a brotherhood?
00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:18.559
Well, oddly enough, there's a little pack of them around here that kind of do uh is kind of spearheaded by uh Dave Pomeroy, who's become the local union president, but he used to do this thing around the holidays every year, the National Bass Orchestra.
00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:26.000
And it was just literally, he would invite any bass player that would come to this club and they would do this stuff.
00:16:26.159 --> 00:16:27.679
I don't even know what it was.
00:16:28.080 --> 00:16:29.120
Secret bass stuff.
00:16:29.440 --> 00:16:33.360
I think it's yeah, I think I would always make sure I was out of town when it happened.
00:16:33.440 --> 00:16:35.679
So no drummer around, just bass.
00:16:36.080 --> 00:16:37.679
If there was a drummer, I pity him.
00:16:38.000 --> 00:16:39.840
Rousing rendition of Big Bottom.
00:16:40.480 --> 00:16:41.360
Yeah, I love it.
00:16:41.519 --> 00:16:42.080
I love it.
00:16:42.240 --> 00:16:43.120
So there's that.
00:16:43.200 --> 00:16:44.000
But yeah.
00:16:44.159 --> 00:16:44.799
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:16:44.879 --> 00:16:46.240
No, okay, it's a different thing.
00:16:46.320 --> 00:16:49.519
So um, let's jump right into something I've been asking.
00:16:49.919 --> 00:16:52.480
For you, what makes a great producer?
00:16:54.720 --> 00:17:01.759
The first thing is someone who's willing to just let you go out there and take a pass or two and see what you come up with.
00:17:02.480 --> 00:17:12.160
A lot, you know, most any good producer is gonna have in his mind what he thinks the approach should be.
00:17:13.039 --> 00:17:50.160
But but the I think the the really I don't want to say smart ones because that implies that some of them are dumb, and it's not a matter of dumb, but the the ones that I think are the most fun to work for are the ones that'll just give you a shot, you know, a time or two and and and see what your instinct is on something, you know, rather than immediately tell you, you know, unless it's just some kind of ridiculous time crunch where he knows he's got to get it in 20 minutes, you know, and and he knows I want this, I want this, I want this, and we got 20 minutes.
00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:52.160
Then it's like, okay, I got you.
00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:54.000
Uh, you know, I'll do that.
00:17:54.720 --> 00:18:05.920
But, you know, someone who's willing to to at least give something a chance to evolve, you know, I I think that's the big thing.
00:18:06.160 --> 00:18:26.960
And uh, you know, just um being personable and not being uh, you know, a hyper kind of domineering personality, that's that's never really fun, you know, when you got someone just you know browbeating at every turn.
00:18:27.039 --> 00:18:32.480
And they're you know, there are guys that have that propensity, you know, some of them.
00:18:32.960 --> 00:18:34.079
Do you still see that?
00:18:36.160 --> 00:18:54.960
V more rarely now because the competition uh is so great in that world because so much happens now in in pre-production with track, you know, builder guys, and you know, they they wind up exercising a lot of control over where something goes.
00:18:55.680 --> 00:19:01.680
About, you know, their level of programming before you e before you even get the song on the floor.
00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:04.240
You know, it's a different thing.
00:19:05.039 --> 00:19:19.759
You know, it's like I'm gonna open a can of verse one, and then I'm gonna open a little can of the chorus and put that there, and then I'm gonna open another can of the bridge, and it's all the same cans in the shelf, you know, by pulling them off the shelf and opening them.
00:19:20.240 --> 00:19:25.519
So, so right, and so okay, so to go back to it, give give uh the guys a chance.
00:19:25.839 --> 00:19:33.119
Give give you a chance to take a pass your idea, what you hear, what you think it should be.
00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:46.160
And then Yeah, I think that I think that Do they is uh does it sometimes happen where and they say to you, hey man, you know, I I really did have this other thing in my head, but you did it.
00:19:46.240 --> 00:19:47.279
Like that's that's it.
00:19:47.359 --> 00:19:52.000
Like, do you is that something occasionally you get the ah I didn't I would have never thought of that.
00:19:52.319 --> 00:19:53.359
Occasionally you do.
00:19:53.920 --> 00:19:56.240
You know, it's worth a shot, but you never know.
00:19:56.480 --> 00:19:58.799
And then sometimes it's like, hey, that was great, man, that was great.
00:19:58.880 --> 00:20:01.440
Can we try to get that kind of thing, right?
00:20:01.599 --> 00:20:01.839
Yeah.
00:20:02.319 --> 00:20:02.480
Yeah.
00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:04.880
And you say, yes, sir, let's go.
00:20:05.200 --> 00:20:05.680
Right.
00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:06.400
Right.
00:20:06.640 --> 00:20:18.720
And have you seen guys who become, I don't know, like the new hot shot around town because they get some hits out, and then all of a sudden they they're they change their entire approach and attitude.
00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:20.720
Like they all of a sudden think they know best.
00:20:20.799 --> 00:20:22.559
Have you seen that before?
00:20:23.279 --> 00:20:29.279
That's hard to say, especially from this chair, because we're never we're never there with another guy.
00:20:29.519 --> 00:20:35.359
You know, so if you if you do see that, it's it's out in the periphery somewhere in other scenarios.
00:20:35.599 --> 00:20:36.240
You know what I mean?
00:20:36.400 --> 00:20:39.039
Like I I don't ever see another drummer on the date.
00:20:39.279 --> 00:20:40.640
Oh, I meant another producer.
00:20:40.799 --> 00:20:41.519
Oh, a producer.
00:20:42.079 --> 00:20:44.319
Who has a new couple of hits under his belt.
00:20:44.400 --> 00:20:52.000
He's a big shot now, and you you've watched him go from, you know what I mean, that kind of thing, where you've seen a guy and you're like, man, this guy's got this gone to his head.
00:20:52.079 --> 00:21:01.359
Now he's just I there on in in varying levels, those things can happen.
00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:07.200
I don't know that I've ever really seen someone just g get unbearable.
00:21:07.440 --> 00:21:07.599
Okay.
00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:10.160
You know, that I'm aware of.
00:21:10.240 --> 00:21:14.400
I but I don't let that stuff register really, you know.
00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:17.039
Because it doesn't affect me.
00:21:17.279 --> 00:21:19.519
Well, when when did that click for you?
00:21:19.680 --> 00:21:30.000
In other words, uh you I get it, maybe there's a sense of detachment, you're able to go in, clock in, do your gig, and just check out and be like, hey man, that's not my problem, you know, that kind of stuff.
00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:33.279
When were you able to tap into that attitude?
00:21:33.839 --> 00:21:35.200
Really quickly.
00:21:35.920 --> 00:21:37.359
Yeah, really quickly.
00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:46.160
And that's to me, what spawned that was is realizing that really I'm on my own.
00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:56.480
I do work for these people, but it's it's I mean, this is the definition of self-employment.
00:21:56.720 --> 00:21:59.759
You know, no one no one is an agent.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:10.559
Me, no one solicits for me, you know, it's strictly a performance-based someone hears something they like in what I do and and they call me for something.
00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:27.039
And and so my outlook is when I show up, I'm gonna bring everything I can and and and and really try to just serve what I'm there to do, and try to leave knowing I did that.
00:22:27.279 --> 00:22:29.359
And and then that's the end of that.
00:22:29.920 --> 00:22:32.480
Everything else is just it's not my problem.
00:22:32.720 --> 00:22:34.640
Well, I'm not gonna let it sour anything.
00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:35.200
Right.
00:22:35.440 --> 00:22:39.119
I don't want it to sour the next time I come in for somebody, you know.
00:22:39.279 --> 00:22:43.519
So you just yeah, you walk away from it and start again fresh.
00:22:43.759 --> 00:22:44.240
Yeah.
00:22:44.480 --> 00:22:49.920
Do things feel uh much different now for you?
00:22:50.799 --> 00:22:51.920
Well, yeah.
00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:54.319
Uh for a number of levels.
00:22:54.480 --> 00:22:57.680
Uh I mean a number of reasons on a number of levels.
00:22:57.920 --> 00:23:12.640
Uh I've I moved here really a little bit late in life to do, you know, to try to be a part of this community and and and and work, you know, in the studio.
00:23:12.880 --> 00:23:16.079
I m I was 38 when I moved here.
00:23:16.480 --> 00:23:24.400
Uh which is funny because people think I've been here as long as Eddie Bears and all that stuff, you know, because I'm s I just turned 65.
00:23:24.559 --> 00:23:26.160
You know, I'm as old as those guys.
00:23:26.240 --> 00:23:31.200
They just assume I've been here all that same amount of time, but I I didn't come here until 96.
00:23:32.079 --> 00:23:45.839
Uh and you know, fortunately for me, there were some things that some opportunities that worked out really well and kind of got me going fairly quickly.
00:23:46.160 --> 00:23:51.440
And um, so yeah, and then and then you then you're in your zone.
00:23:51.519 --> 00:24:02.559
You're you're in your whatever that lifespan of a of a top-tier session guy is, the clock's running from there.
00:24:03.200 --> 00:24:30.160
And that doesn't necessarily mean there's a time where it absolutely just goes away and you never do another session, but there is a span because along along with you, there are the producers you're working for, and they have a lifespan too, you know, and then younger, a younger crop comes in, and they have guys that they've worked with and are coming up with, and so there's, you know, for lack of a better term, it's shift change, you know, and and that just happens.
00:24:30.240 --> 00:25:05.279
It it was the same way for the guys, you know, before the guys I worked with, you know, there was a shift change for those guys, and and then and at that point your involvement is really just kind of how uh much you try to remain viable as a choice, and and so yeah, for me, uh you know, I I'm obviously on on one slope of that of that thing, because I'm I'm not necessarily doing you know many of the brand new artists and stuff like that.
00:25:05.599 --> 00:25:08.240
Uh, you know, and that's fine.
00:25:08.319 --> 00:25:12.160
Someone's someone is, you know, and it's and it's their time.
00:25:12.400 --> 00:25:16.799
Uh, but I still I still work a good bit, you know, a lot.
00:25:17.119 --> 00:25:26.640
And uh I'm fortunate that I came up with guys that I learned a lot from, not just in playing, but in the technical aspects of stuff.
00:25:26.720 --> 00:25:30.400
So I do a lot of recording at home, you know, that I enjoy.
00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:36.319
And I've always had I've always had a studio since I was a late teenager, very early 20s.
00:25:36.640 --> 00:25:43.119
So I have that background of being able to knob jockey just enough to function.
00:25:43.359 --> 00:25:44.880
And I've always enjoyed that.
00:25:44.960 --> 00:25:55.599
So it's worked out well that uh the new uh paradigm shift of hey, I'm gonna send you a click and an acoustic guitar and a vocal.
00:25:55.680 --> 00:25:57.920
Can you put you know, put me a drum track on it?
00:25:58.000 --> 00:25:58.880
Yeah, I can.
00:25:59.119 --> 00:26:00.240
You know, and I do that.
00:26:00.319 --> 00:26:08.319
I go upstairs and turn my stuff on and uh, you know, get a Coca-Cola and go to town.
00:26:08.480 --> 00:26:09.119
And it's fun.
00:26:09.200 --> 00:26:10.240
I I enjoy it.
00:26:10.400 --> 00:26:11.519
I really enjoyed that.
00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:11.920
Yeah.
00:26:12.079 --> 00:26:19.119
But, you know, and I really I've never I never stopped playing live uh from the time I moved here.
00:26:19.279 --> 00:26:23.759
I was always involved in one thing or the other to play gig because there's it's a different energy to that.
00:26:23.839 --> 00:26:26.079
There's nothing really kind of like that.
00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:32.400
A good a good gig and people that immediate response and all that stuff.
00:26:32.559 --> 00:26:54.000
So that you know, that's a little more my focus these days, is is I go out and I've been playing with Brooks and Dun lately and uh a good little bit with Joe Bonhomasa uh uh in previous years and and uh Trisha Yearwood and I've played uh with Amy Grant a long time.
00:26:54.160 --> 00:26:56.319
Actually, yeah, that's like your longest, no?
00:26:56.640 --> 00:27:07.440
Well, it's it's it's one of my longest relationships uh because I was uh I think the first thing I ever did with her was maybe 1980.
00:27:08.079 --> 00:27:14.000
And uh, you know, she was like 18 or 19 and I was 21 or something.
00:27:14.240 --> 00:27:23.039
And uh so that you know that's when we we met, and and the the band I was in at the time had been hired to back her up on a live recording.
00:27:23.119 --> 00:27:24.079
She had never had a band before.
00:27:24.319 --> 00:27:30.400
They wanted to do a live album, they needed a band, so they hired our band to be her band to do these recordings.
00:27:30.640 --> 00:27:51.279
And uh, and so that you know that was a thing that was on and off, has been on and off for well uh I I I kind of stepped away from that uh in when did I step away from 20 what years it's 43?
00:27:51.759 --> 00:27:56.720
Uh last year, I guess, so yeah.
00:27:57.440 --> 00:28:11.200
Fall of 2021, I I I kind of stepped away from it for another opportunity that uh I kind of had that didn't really work out like it was like I had hoped it would.
00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:13.440
And that's okay, those things happen.
00:28:13.599 --> 00:28:21.599
But I but I you know I stepped away from Amy's thing based on this, and John Hammond has been has been doing it, and she had a long relationship with him too.
00:28:21.759 --> 00:28:27.119
You know, he and his brother uh have known those people forever, and it and it's all good, you know.
00:28:27.359 --> 00:28:34.319
Um we're all still friends, and I've known John forever, too, so it's not like yeah, you stole my gig.
00:28:34.480 --> 00:28:36.880
Well, first of all, nothing is your gig.
00:28:37.039 --> 00:28:41.440
If it ain't your band and you're not hiring the people, it ain't your gig, it's their gig.
00:28:41.680 --> 00:28:44.079
See, that this is what I'm saying.
00:28:44.240 --> 00:28:49.359
This kind of attitude and outlook, it's like you just understand this from Nothing is your gig.
00:28:49.519 --> 00:28:49.839
Right.
00:28:50.079 --> 00:28:53.200
You you work at the pleasure of the people who hire you.
00:28:53.440 --> 00:28:54.559
And that's not bad.
00:28:54.720 --> 00:29:00.160
That doesn't, that's not, you know, it's not a bad thing, but it's reality.
00:29:00.400 --> 00:29:04.480
And you have you have to you have to work from that point.
00:29:04.640 --> 00:29:08.160
You have to work based in reality and just know.
00:29:08.880 --> 00:29:12.880
Because otherwise you're just gonna be you're just gonna get bitter.
00:29:13.039 --> 00:29:14.240
Yeah, you know.
00:29:14.960 --> 00:29:16.480
Because things change.
00:29:16.720 --> 00:29:21.359
You know, there were people that I've done huge records for.
00:29:22.079 --> 00:29:23.279
Huge records for.
00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:27.359
And they're still cutting, but they're not cutting with me.
00:29:27.680 --> 00:29:29.599
And it's like, well, okay.
00:29:29.839 --> 00:29:32.240
You know, you felt like you need to do something else.
00:29:32.319 --> 00:29:32.799
I get it.
00:29:33.039 --> 00:29:36.240
I, you know, I had no claim to this, you know.
00:29:37.440 --> 00:29:44.640
I wish it'd have called and said, hey man, we're gonna just, you know, we're gonna shake things up a little bit and and and thanks.
00:29:44.720 --> 00:29:47.039
We've you know, we've we've done good work.
00:29:47.519 --> 00:29:49.839
But even that, you you know you did.
00:29:50.079 --> 00:29:53.440
You know you did good work because they were really successful records.
00:29:53.680 --> 00:29:57.920
So just appreciate that and go find the next thing.
00:29:58.160 --> 00:30:04.559
It's not worth festering, you know, bitterness over.
00:30:05.759 --> 00:30:07.440
Did you go through that?
00:30:08.480 --> 00:30:13.119
Um there's been a time or two where I've had to fight that off, yeah.
00:30:14.559 --> 00:30:23.680
In in other settings, you know, not necessarily a uh uh a lost recording entity or something like that, but just just other things.
00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:25.279
Because it's life, real life.
00:30:25.359 --> 00:30:26.799
Back to that real life stuff.
00:30:27.119 --> 00:30:33.359
It's always it's it's it's just not worth wasting the energy over bitterness, isn't it?
00:30:33.759 --> 00:30:34.559
You know, excuse me.
00:30:34.640 --> 00:30:35.839
Well, yeah, no, of course.
00:30:36.160 --> 00:30:36.400
Of course.
00:30:37.039 --> 00:30:38.559
Like I said, hot day.
00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:43.920
You gotta uh now um we I mean we jump around a lot here.
00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:44.799
I jump around a lot.
00:30:44.880 --> 00:30:47.119
Um I'm scattered anyway, so I'm poly.
00:30:47.519 --> 00:30:48.319
It it works, right?
00:30:48.480 --> 00:30:49.119
It does work.
00:30:49.599 --> 00:30:54.160
Um you by the way, are you still playing Slingerland drums primarily?
00:30:54.319 --> 00:30:57.680
Uh well uh that's my main studio kit, yeah.
00:30:57.759 --> 00:30:59.680
Yeah is that big green kit.
00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:00.480
Famous.
00:31:01.039 --> 00:31:02.799
It's more famous than I am.
00:31:04.799 --> 00:31:06.319
Ask you about the green kit, right?
00:31:06.640 --> 00:31:09.359
The green monster, that's what they call it around town.
00:31:09.440 --> 00:31:09.599
Yeah.
00:31:09.759 --> 00:31:11.839
Even the engineers, you bring in the green ones?
00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:12.880
Well, yeah.
00:31:13.200 --> 00:31:14.079
Of course I am.
00:31:14.319 --> 00:31:15.119
That's my thing.
00:31:15.279 --> 00:31:22.240
But but I I do I do have a relationship with Gretch, and and Gretsch is a longstanding thing in in my career.
00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:28.400
I I think I got my first kit in 76, and you know, that's always been a it's been a constant.
00:31:28.559 --> 00:31:28.720
Right.
00:31:28.880 --> 00:31:43.200
And so when the Seeger uh tour came up, it was a great opportunity to to contact them and say, man, I'd really like to take, you know, a nice little Gretsch kit out on this tour, you know, and and they were very amiable to that.
00:31:43.359 --> 00:31:44.799
And and I don't require much.
00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:46.400
I'm pretty I'm fairly low maintenance.
00:31:46.640 --> 00:31:48.079
What sizes do you prefer?
00:31:48.319 --> 00:31:51.599
Uh on that, it was just a 24, 13, 16.
00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:52.720
That's it.
00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:53.200
Yeah.
00:31:53.440 --> 00:31:54.640
And what would have made the difference?
00:31:54.799 --> 00:32:00.240
Why would you have to say choose what what other bass drum size would you choose, for example, on a tour?
00:32:00.960 --> 00:32:01.359
Nothing.
00:32:02.079 --> 00:32:02.720
24?
00:32:02.880 --> 00:32:03.200
Yeah.
00:32:03.359 --> 00:32:03.839
Yeah, okay.
00:32:04.079 --> 00:32:04.480
I do.
00:32:04.640 --> 00:32:06.000
That's just Yeah.
00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:07.440
Yeah, I got you.
00:32:07.599 --> 00:32:09.759
And the green and the Green Monster is uh are those the sizes?
00:32:09.839 --> 00:32:12.880
Yeah, it's a twelve well, that's a 24-14-16.
00:32:13.119 --> 00:32:13.599
Oh, okay.
00:32:13.759 --> 00:32:24.160
And it was, and it was uh, I mean, it was at a time where Slingerland was just about to cease production.
00:32:24.559 --> 00:32:42.559
You know, Henry Juskowitz still owned Gibson and and him, you know, Slingerland and their whole stable of brands, which he kind of successfully killed every one of them off, you know, Overheim and Tobias and Opcode software, and you know, he bought all these trademarks and just let them die on the vine.
00:32:42.640 --> 00:32:44.640
And they were viable entities.
00:32:45.759 --> 00:32:47.839
And Slingerland was next.
00:32:48.079 --> 00:32:51.039
And uh Pat Foley was real good to me and Sam Baco.
00:32:51.119 --> 00:32:55.119
They were both still there when I started the relationship with them.
00:32:55.759 --> 00:33:02.000
Um and um I'd gotten what did I got?
00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:16.400
I I got my initial studio kit with them was a 22 10 13 16 is what I was using.
00:33:16.799 --> 00:33:21.920
It had a 12 as well, so if I if I used a single rack, I used the 12 and the 16.
00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:27.440
And if I used two, I used the 10, the 13, 16, which is uh a Harry Stenson thing.
00:33:27.519 --> 00:33:36.799
He that's and it's all in tonal spacing, you know, kind of equal, equal increases in size, you know what I mean?
00:33:37.279 --> 00:33:38.240
A 10, add three.
00:33:38.720 --> 00:33:42.319
And this is something Harry Stinson did, and you learned that from him, you're saying?
00:33:42.640 --> 00:33:45.279
Uh I I knew he had done that.
00:33:45.839 --> 00:33:48.960
Um, and it just made sense to me.
00:33:49.039 --> 00:33:59.440
It's like if you to me, if you're gonna have a 13 and a 16, if you wanted to play a 12, play a 12 and a 15 instead of a 12 and a 14.
00:33:59.680 --> 00:34:00.240
Gotcha.
00:34:00.400 --> 00:34:10.400
I can't ever really get my 14 comfortably low enough to have enough space between the two, really, for my for my taste.
00:34:10.639 --> 00:34:11.280
You know.
00:34:11.679 --> 00:34:14.639
Uh but that's just person, that's just a personal thing.
00:34:15.039 --> 00:34:19.440
You know, the drone catalogs always were 20, 12, 14, 22, 13, 16.
00:34:19.519 --> 00:34:20.960
That's just what you saw, you know.
00:34:21.039 --> 00:34:21.199
Yeah.
00:34:21.360 --> 00:34:24.559
And that uh, you know, that's become the legendary standard.
00:34:24.719 --> 00:34:29.360
But for me, if I'm gonna play a single 12, I I'd prefer to have a 15.
00:34:30.320 --> 00:34:34.400
But but you like you said, the green monster gets most of the the bulk of the work.
00:34:34.639 --> 00:34:41.920
Yeah, see, we I totally set me up, you said I'm scattered, and uh I immediately scattered.
00:34:42.159 --> 00:34:43.199
Who can go more scattered?
00:34:43.280 --> 00:34:43.679
You or me?
00:34:43.760 --> 00:34:44.960
Let's let's find out today.
00:34:45.199 --> 00:34:54.400
Anyway, uh that that was a a color they called coastal coral in that that first studio kit, the 2210, 13, 16.
00:34:54.880 --> 00:35:05.760
And um I don't know, I went out there one day for for some reason, maybe just hanging out, or because you know, I'm a drum nerd.
00:35:05.840 --> 00:35:11.440
I like to just to be in sawdust and all that stuff and see things being built and all that.
00:35:11.760 --> 00:35:17.280
Went out there and I saw that C foam green, and I'm like, oh man, that looks so good.
00:35:17.599 --> 00:35:20.639
You know, and and it was just sitting on a shelf, you know.
00:35:20.800 --> 00:35:23.280
It was it was they had it listed in their catalog.
00:35:23.360 --> 00:35:27.599
The model of the kit was called a rolling bomber, I think is what they called it.
00:35:27.760 --> 00:35:31.280
Like the you know, the takeoff on the Slinglin thing.
00:35:31.440 --> 00:35:40.480
And uh, it was a 16x24, an 11x14, a 16 by 16, and a 16 by 18.
00:35:41.840 --> 00:35:44.000
And a six and a half snare.
00:35:44.639 --> 00:35:51.519
Um and so I don't know how the topic came up, but it wound up coming home with me.
00:35:52.239 --> 00:36:02.000
And and I just kind of had it for a little while, and then I I got a call to do a Montgomery Gentry record, uh, my town.
00:36:02.639 --> 00:36:12.480
Uh and I knew it was going to be a pretty rowdy record, so I thought, well, I'm gonna take the big drums and see what they do, you know.
00:36:13.199 --> 00:36:27.360
And so I got them out prior to the session, kind of started messing with them, and and I, you know, put my head selection on them and all that stuff and dialed them up and not sure about this.
00:36:27.840 --> 00:36:37.840
And uh the the Studio Kings at the time all came with die-cast tubes, and I th and they just weren't they just sounded clamped down somehow or another.
00:36:37.920 --> 00:36:43.360
And I, you know, I know how to deal with die-cast tubes from Gretz stuff, you know, it's not always that way.
00:36:43.599 --> 00:36:53.199
Anyway, I wound up uh going out to World Max and getting some of the they have a kind of a remake of the Slingerland stick saver hoop, you know, that's curled in.
00:36:53.360 --> 00:36:58.159
And I grabbed a set of those and put on those drums, and it was all of a sudden it's like the sun came out.
00:36:58.400 --> 00:37:01.599
That's just like, oh wow, okay.
00:37:01.760 --> 00:37:07.440
So I took them in the studio, and and that was the first record I ever used them on, and it had been on every record since then.
00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:08.480
Yeah.
00:37:08.880 --> 00:37:10.079
Did you put anything in the kitchen?
00:37:10.800 --> 00:37:11.360
A little bit.
00:37:11.440 --> 00:37:20.079
It's basically, you know, when you when you go in the hospital and they have those little squishy cotton-filled pillows that get really flat.
00:37:20.159 --> 00:37:22.400
Yeah, you know, I always bring them home.
00:37:22.559 --> 00:37:29.519
You know, I have a propensity for kidney stones, so I have a ch I have a chance to accumulate number numerous of those pillows.
00:37:29.760 --> 00:37:33.360
But uh, that's what I use because it's just kind of gets flat enough.
00:37:33.440 --> 00:37:36.880
It doesn't take up, you know, it doesn't do a lot, but it just does just enough.
00:37:37.119 --> 00:37:38.320
Is it touching head to head?
00:37:38.400 --> 00:37:38.639
Yeah.
00:37:38.960 --> 00:37:40.079
And how many do you use?
00:37:40.239 --> 00:37:40.719
Just one.
00:37:40.880 --> 00:37:41.760
Just one, yeah.
00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:42.400
Interesting.
00:37:42.559 --> 00:37:45.760
And you have you have a lot of those pillows anyway, you're saying I do by now.
00:37:46.079 --> 00:37:49.199
And I like how you take them home and no one else can have that secret ingredient.
00:37:49.519 --> 00:37:50.880
Well, they're just gonna throw them away.
00:37:51.039 --> 00:37:51.199
Right.
00:37:51.360 --> 00:37:52.480
Yeah, they're not gonna reuse them.
00:37:52.719 --> 00:37:57.280
And and what about how what do you use for dampening on the heads, on the toms?
00:37:57.840 --> 00:38:00.000
Uh it varies, sometimes nothing.
00:38:00.400 --> 00:38:04.159
Right, and I I mean, assuming that sometimes they're wide open, but when you do, what's the go-to?
00:38:04.400 --> 00:38:05.199
What do you use?
00:38:05.440 --> 00:38:08.559
I just have a roll of gaff tape and some paper towel handy.
00:38:08.719 --> 00:38:09.119
Gotcha.
00:38:09.280 --> 00:38:12.400
And just so it's a fold-up paper towel tape over it.
00:38:12.559 --> 00:38:13.760
Yeah, seasoned to taste.
00:38:14.159 --> 00:38:21.119
Or you know, or the Larry London fin, the radiator fin, you know, where you take a piece of duct tape and in the middle of it, you know.
00:38:21.280 --> 00:38:22.400
In the middle it's sticking up.
00:38:22.559 --> 00:38:23.599
Right, you're right, gotcha.
00:38:23.679 --> 00:38:24.719
I got the Larry London fin.
00:38:25.840 --> 00:38:28.320
People see that and they think that's not gonna do anything.
00:38:28.400 --> 00:38:31.760
And you just take it off, and it's like, oh, man, it did a lot.
00:38:32.000 --> 00:38:32.719
Actually, that's it.
00:38:32.800 --> 00:38:38.480
But let's take a moment and actually, what have you tried the difference between the fin and no fin?
00:38:38.719 --> 00:38:40.079
Like, do you really hear a huge difference?
00:38:40.320 --> 00:38:40.719
Oh, yeah.
00:38:40.880 --> 00:38:41.119
You do?
00:38:41.280 --> 00:38:41.519
Yeah.
00:38:41.760 --> 00:38:42.079
Okay.
00:38:42.400 --> 00:38:42.719
Okay.
00:38:42.960 --> 00:38:44.400
Yeah, it absolutely is.
00:38:44.719 --> 00:38:44.960
Yeah.
00:38:45.199 --> 00:38:46.320
Try this at home, guys.
00:38:46.480 --> 00:38:46.639
Yeah.
00:38:46.880 --> 00:38:47.440
Anyone listening?
00:38:47.760 --> 00:38:48.320
It does.
00:38:48.480 --> 00:38:56.800
And he he would always do most of the time, whenever I saw Larry, and it was uh mostly on his concert time kits.
00:38:57.039 --> 00:38:57.920
He would do three.
00:38:58.079 --> 00:39:08.559
He would do like a uh one at noon, one at seven or seven or eight, and one at four, you know, like a triangle in the head.
00:39:08.800 --> 00:39:10.000
Yeah, and do you do that?
00:39:10.320 --> 00:39:12.159
It depends, just case to case.
00:39:12.400 --> 00:39:12.559
Okay.
00:39:12.719 --> 00:39:14.639
Most of the time I get away with just one.
00:39:15.360 --> 00:39:22.639
You know, over and and and where how far close to the edge or towards the center you put it changes it, and you know.
00:39:22.960 --> 00:39:25.519
So you're not a you're not a wallet guy on the snare, for example.
00:39:25.760 --> 00:39:26.800
No, I I'm not.
00:39:27.199 --> 00:39:29.360
You just more tape more on the snare, even.
00:39:29.760 --> 00:39:31.679
Same, same method, yeah, the pepper towel.
00:39:31.840 --> 00:39:33.360
Do you have a go-to snare?
00:39:34.000 --> 00:39:37.280
Um, well, I change them a lot.
00:39:37.519 --> 00:39:51.920
But I think the first one that's always up is uh, it's probably a mid to late 90s chrome over brass superphonic, you know, uh six and a half?
00:39:52.079 --> 00:39:53.360
Yeah, it's a six and a half.
00:39:53.519 --> 00:39:57.360
And but I use uh I use brass hoops on it.
00:39:58.079 --> 00:40:03.920
Um just for some reason I like what it does, and it looks cool.
00:40:04.079 --> 00:40:04.719
Yeah.
00:40:05.199 --> 00:40:06.000
Nice and heavy.
00:40:06.159 --> 00:40:14.559
But no, it's it's a you know, it's a good stick sound, and you know, the rim shot is uh not quite so metallic sounding.
00:40:14.639 --> 00:40:20.320
I mean, the when you're digging in and whacking it, you know, it it's a little more palatable.
00:40:20.559 --> 00:40:22.800
But you like the side stick on that on the brass?
00:40:22.960 --> 00:40:23.599
Yeah, I do.
00:40:23.679 --> 00:40:26.000
Yeah, I think it's uh a little warmer.
00:40:26.320 --> 00:40:27.760
That's a go-to snare right now.
00:40:28.159 --> 00:40:29.360
Yeah, that's super funic.
00:40:29.519 --> 00:40:29.840
Yeah.
00:40:29.920 --> 00:40:30.239
Yeah.
00:40:30.400 --> 00:40:32.719
It's the first one out all the time.
00:40:33.440 --> 00:40:46.320
And then, you know, song to song, it just depends on the level of aggression or or non-aggression, you know, if it's a really tender thing or if it's a really kind of artsy thing, or you know, you have to you have to cover a lot of ground.
00:40:46.559 --> 00:40:46.800
Sure.
00:40:47.199 --> 00:40:52.239
So I keep I you know, I take a number of snares to a date, and they all have a purpose.
00:40:52.400 --> 00:40:56.159
You know, they're they're each of them are tuned for what they do.
00:40:56.639 --> 00:40:59.199
And I don't really ever change them, you know.
00:40:59.440 --> 00:41:02.480
If if I need X, I know this is X drum.
00:41:02.639 --> 00:41:04.639
If I need Y, this is Y drum.
00:41:05.039 --> 00:41:05.519
You know.
00:41:05.840 --> 00:41:06.800
Same with symbols.
00:41:06.880 --> 00:41:07.920
I take a bunch of symbols.
00:41:08.559 --> 00:41:22.639
Those things in the in the atmosphere of a track change the soundscape more than anything, you know, the symbols and the and the snare to me they do.
00:41:23.199 --> 00:41:23.519
Yeah.
00:41:23.760 --> 00:41:26.159
Because they're the most constant thing you're playing.
00:41:27.199 --> 00:41:28.320
Yeah, that makes sense.
00:41:28.400 --> 00:41:30.880
And and and what what about size of the hi-hats?
00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:32.639
Does that change for you?
00:41:33.119 --> 00:41:34.159
Not so much.
00:41:34.400 --> 00:41:39.280
Mainly with hi-hats, I just want something that's not gonna take up all the space.
00:41:40.079 --> 00:41:40.480
You know.
00:41:40.800 --> 00:41:41.920
So what size do you do?
00:41:42.239 --> 00:41:43.679
They're 14s, they're just fourteens.
00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:44.400
All yours.
00:41:44.800 --> 00:41:50.159
But they're they're a little bit they're a little bit on the lighter side, you know.
00:41:50.639 --> 00:41:57.119
Because uh once again, hi hats w can just eat up a snare drum, Mike.
00:41:57.440 --> 00:41:59.119
You know, it's right there.
00:41:59.679 --> 00:42:15.440
So that and and there, you know, there's a technical aspect of it too, just kind of learning how to back off the right hand and not back off the left hand, you know, to to you have to be able to mix yourself on some level.
00:42:15.679 --> 00:42:17.519
That's what makes it good for an engineer.
00:42:17.679 --> 00:42:23.840
When when the drummer can balance himself on the kit, everything is much more musical.
00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:28.320
You you don't have to hit everything as hard as you can all the time.
00:42:28.400 --> 00:42:30.400
You're not creating more sound.
00:42:30.639 --> 00:42:31.119
Right.
00:42:31.360 --> 00:42:34.320
You know, you're certainly not creating more tone.
00:42:35.679 --> 00:42:39.199
You you're largely beating the tone out of stuff.
00:42:39.519 --> 00:42:41.199
It can only respond so much.
00:42:41.280 --> 00:42:48.480
It's like guys that club hand an acoustic guitar, you know, it's only going to give you so much, and then just then you got racket.
00:42:48.880 --> 00:42:49.599
Then it's just racket.
00:42:50.000 --> 00:42:52.320
Do you have a light touch when you're recording?
00:42:52.719 --> 00:42:56.559
Uh I I don't or it depends.
00:42:58.800 --> 00:43:01.440
It's funny because people will act people.
00:43:04.239 --> 00:43:06.880
I don't think it sounds like a light touch.
00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:19.119
And and I don't I don't waste a lot of motion, you know, but I don't think there's a lack of power there.
00:43:19.760 --> 00:43:23.760
You know, I just think the power comes from my elbows down.
00:43:25.039 --> 00:43:31.039
So you don't see you don't see a lot of, you know, coming from behind the head stuff.
00:43:31.119 --> 00:43:34.719
You know, it's all to me, it's all very internal, compact.
00:43:34.960 --> 00:43:39.920
It's compact, like a a good hitter in baseball.
00:43:40.079 --> 00:43:43.440
The swing is compact, you know, things like that.
00:43:43.519 --> 00:43:45.199
You you can generate a lot of power.
00:43:45.280 --> 00:43:58.960
You can generate a lot of power in six or eight inches that's going to give you a great sound, as opposed to, you know, two and a half feet from behind your head that you know, that you're gonna be worn out after playing one pass.
00:43:59.119 --> 00:44:01.679
You know, it's just Kind of wasted energy to me.
00:44:01.920 --> 00:44:02.400
Yeah.
00:44:02.559 --> 00:44:03.199
Yeah.
00:44:03.679 --> 00:44:04.320
Makes sense.
00:44:04.559 --> 00:44:06.000
Uh it's just that's just me.
00:44:06.559 --> 00:44:09.440
You you you mentioned um you mentioned Larry London.
00:44:09.920 --> 00:44:15.360
But you also, I mean, um it's helped me out here because I know you mentioned you got here in ninety-six.
00:44:15.679 --> 00:44:16.159
98.
00:44:16.400 --> 00:44:17.039
Sorry, 98.
00:44:17.599 --> 00:44:18.800
Oh no, no, you're right, 96.
00:44:18.960 --> 00:44:20.000
It was it was 96.
00:44:20.239 --> 00:44:20.400
Okay.
00:44:20.480 --> 00:44:26.559
I thought you did say 96, but okay, yeah, and and um that's um that's after Larry London passed away.
00:44:27.280 --> 00:44:30.480
So let's back up, because I know you you said you saw him and everything.
00:44:30.559 --> 00:44:31.199
So yeah.
00:44:31.360 --> 00:44:33.519
Let's get into like how how does that all work out?
00:44:33.760 --> 00:44:46.559
The the very first time I ever saw him, I was maybe 13 or 14, and he came to Memphis to do a drum clinic at a at a at a music store that I frequented a lot called Melody Music Shop.
00:44:46.639 --> 00:44:49.360
It's where I got my very first pro level kit.
00:44:50.239 --> 00:44:52.480
And uh and they were always really good to me.
00:44:52.559 --> 00:44:58.800
You know, they just kind of adopted me as the little Saturday nephew that would come in.
00:44:58.960 --> 00:45:05.519
Mom would drop it, drop me off when it opened and pick me up when they closed, and just let me hang there all day.
00:45:05.599 --> 00:45:07.760
And they're, you know, they were really nice to me.
00:45:08.000 --> 00:45:13.119
Anyway, the drum guy said, Man, you need to come see this drum clinic.
00:45:13.199 --> 00:45:15.360
I said, What's a drum clinic?
00:45:15.679 --> 00:45:21.760
And he said, Well, this guy's gonna play, and you really should come see him.
00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:23.840
And I thought, well, okay.
00:45:24.400 --> 00:45:35.119
Um, so I go and uh and uh and they've got him set up upstairs in the combo room, and it's you know, a double bass.
00:45:35.440 --> 00:45:44.960
It it was the Pearl Wood fiberglass kit, and and it was right when Pearl was making that jump from a department store line to a music store line.
00:45:45.199 --> 00:45:46.239
You know what I mean?
00:45:46.480 --> 00:45:52.079
And and Larry was Larry was kind of their flagship guy during that time.
00:45:52.719 --> 00:46:02.159
Anyway, the kit's up there and it's double bass, and I'm going, oh man, this, you know, he and he and the guy said, come around back, come around back behind the kit.
00:46:02.320 --> 00:46:10.480
And I went behind the kit and he and he had uh he said, put your foot on that pedal and try to push it down.
00:46:10.719 --> 00:46:21.280
And I noticed that the beater is all the way back resting on the footboard, you know, and the spring is as absolutely as tight as it would go.
00:46:21.519 --> 00:46:29.760
I'm like, so so I lift the beater up and get my foot under it, and it's like I let it go, and that thing flaps back on my foot.
00:46:29.840 --> 00:46:31.599
It's like, damn, that hurt.
00:46:31.840 --> 00:46:33.679
Because he had wood beaters.
00:46:33.920 --> 00:46:40.800
And I play, you know, trying to play this thing, and it's like, what in the hell is going on here?
00:46:41.039 --> 00:46:45.119
Anyway, so he said, Well, the clinic's about to start.
00:46:45.360 --> 00:47:04.480
And uh, so I go out and kind of get my little chair, and I I, you know, I kind of look out the corner of my eye and I see this really big guy coming out in a in a really loud Hawaiian shirt, you know, and and like a almost a Papadore hairdo at the time.
00:47:05.679 --> 00:47:11.679
And I s and I'm just like, I'm not really commenting, I just this seems odd.
00:47:11.760 --> 00:47:13.119
It's like, oh, this I wonder.
00:47:13.519 --> 00:47:14.639
Look at this guy, kind of thing.
00:47:14.880 --> 00:47:17.119
Yeah, he, oh this guy came to the clinic too.
00:47:17.199 --> 00:47:20.639
You know, he went look at look at this guy coming in with the yeah, yeah.
00:47:20.880 --> 00:47:24.880
And and so he walks right up to the stage and gets behind the kit.
00:47:25.039 --> 00:47:27.360
I'm like, okay.
00:47:28.239 --> 00:47:35.519
And man, he launched, and it was an onslaught like you'd never seen.
00:47:35.679 --> 00:47:45.280
And it it was mind-blowing what what he did and just how intense it was, you know, and it it just blew my mind.
00:47:45.599 --> 00:47:46.480
What do you remember?
00:47:46.719 --> 00:47:48.559
What stands out when you think back?
00:47:48.880 --> 00:48:02.559
Just the power combined with the uh uh technical acumen, he was obviously he he just knew what he was doing.
00:48:02.719 --> 00:48:07.039
And the power, once again, it wasn't he wasn't hidden from behind his head.
00:48:07.119 --> 00:48:08.800
He's just a big guy.
00:48:09.039 --> 00:48:10.880
And and there's force.
00:48:11.280 --> 00:48:19.199
If he just lets his arm fall on the snare drum, his sheer mass makes it sound.
00:48:19.440 --> 00:48:27.920
And you know, maybe that's subconsciously where I kind of got that whole thing of just don't don't beat the sound out of the drums, you know.
00:48:28.239 --> 00:48:32.880
Anyway, uh so yeah, it was just it it was everything.
00:48:33.039 --> 00:48:49.440
You know, he he just like I said, the the the level of his his skill level combined with just the uh sheer force of the sound was pretty stunning.
00:48:49.679 --> 00:48:51.199
And and it was big.
00:48:51.360 --> 00:48:53.280
I get what you said, just big.
00:48:53.519 --> 00:48:54.480
Yeah, it was big.
00:48:54.719 --> 00:49:04.400
And and and have you to this day, when you think back to that, have you heard anyone in your life who can come close to that that particular sound?
00:49:04.639 --> 00:49:05.840
Well, yeah, yeah.
00:49:06.000 --> 00:49:06.800
Go ahead, tell me.
00:49:06.960 --> 00:49:10.639
I I I I think Tommy Aldridge comes to Tommy Aldridge.
00:49:10.880 --> 00:49:11.599
Oh, yeah, yeah.
00:49:11.840 --> 00:49:13.360
This is the closest to Larry Line.
00:49:13.599 --> 00:49:19.440
Well, I mean, it was just it was it was um the same ilk.
00:49:19.840 --> 00:49:23.119
You know, the the choice of what he was playing was not the same.
00:49:23.280 --> 00:49:23.599
Sure.
00:49:23.840 --> 00:49:28.000
But the power behind it and the skill level was.
00:49:28.400 --> 00:49:28.719
Yeah.
00:49:29.039 --> 00:49:37.199
I mean, Tommy at 21 or 22 years old, when he did that first Black Oak record, man, he was bringing it.
00:49:37.440 --> 00:49:42.159
He was bringing it hard, you know, and I saw them probably three or four times.
00:49:42.239 --> 00:49:44.480
They would come through Memphis all the time, which is where I'm from.
00:49:44.559 --> 00:49:50.559
The Black Oaks just it wasn't that far, you know, that they would come through all the time.
00:49:51.840 --> 00:49:56.320
And uh, so yeah, TA, man, pretty damn mighty.
00:49:56.880 --> 00:49:58.239
And he's still mighty.
00:49:58.480 --> 00:49:59.119
Yeah.
00:49:59.679 --> 00:50:00.239
Yeah.
00:50:00.480 --> 00:50:02.159
That guy, I mean, yeah.
00:50:02.559 --> 00:50:03.440
He's unreal.
00:50:03.599 --> 00:50:03.840
Yeah.
00:50:04.079 --> 00:50:07.599
That's interesting though, but you would equate that's just interesting to me, that's all.
00:50:07.760 --> 00:50:09.360
Larry London and Tommy Aldridge.
00:50:09.440 --> 00:50:11.119
I you wouldn't put normally put those two together.
00:50:11.599 --> 00:50:14.880
He wouldn't, but but but yeah, you can see the similarity.
00:50:14.960 --> 00:50:15.360
Yes.
00:50:15.599 --> 00:50:20.960
You know, based on like I said, what Larry did, you know, this was his clinic thing.
00:50:21.039 --> 00:50:21.199
Yeah.
00:50:21.360 --> 00:50:23.760
It doesn't, this wasn't the thing he did in the studio.
00:50:23.920 --> 00:50:26.000
He he was very song driven.
00:50:26.159 --> 00:50:30.559
You know, he would just, you know, he knew what songs needed.
00:50:30.719 --> 00:50:31.039
Yeah.
00:50:31.199 --> 00:50:33.760
And and that's what he did in the studio, you know.
00:50:33.920 --> 00:50:40.480
But when it came time to be Larry Dadgum London, you know, he unloaded both barrels.
00:50:40.639 --> 00:50:41.199
I love that.
00:50:41.360 --> 00:50:43.280
And so, okay, so you got to see him a lot.
00:50:43.519 --> 00:50:44.159
This is perfect.
00:50:44.239 --> 00:50:44.800
Like, this is great.
00:50:44.880 --> 00:50:45.599
What a what an experience.
00:50:45.760 --> 00:50:46.880
You got to see it a lot.
00:50:47.039 --> 00:50:49.599
Yeah, you got to see more than once.
00:50:50.159 --> 00:51:02.239
Um when I worked at when I worked at the drum stand in Memphis with Dave Patrick, he's kind of my, you know, one of my early mentors and one of my best friends in the world.
00:51:02.480 --> 00:51:14.000
Uh he was the drum shop guy there at Strings and Things in Memphis, and and you know, I was just the kid hanging around and I'd sweep the floor and you know, just help with stuff.
00:51:14.079 --> 00:51:24.480
And eventually we we kind of started doing custom work, you know, uh for different artists, different drummers, you know, building custom kits and stuff like that.
00:51:24.559 --> 00:51:35.360
I would like we'd do, we were one of the early guys to do shell Gretz shell banks, and then we would customize what you wanted, how you wanted to mount them, blah, blah, blah.
00:51:35.519 --> 00:51:44.320
Because it was pre-rims, you know, there was no suspension mounts and all that stuff, so you could pick and choose what hardware you wanted and all that stuff, and we'd build them up and send them out.
00:51:44.400 --> 00:51:57.840
But anyway, Larry uh did a number of clinics for us at that at that shop, and we we built a couple of uh Eams snare drums for him that he that he used a lot up here.
00:51:58.079 --> 00:52:10.719
Matter of fact, I I've always been told, and and I don't have any concrete evidence of this, but that you know that that snare drum he played on O'Sherry was a four by fourteen Eames that we built him.
00:52:10.960 --> 00:52:12.159
Yeah, I could hear that.
00:52:12.239 --> 00:52:13.519
That sounds piccolo-ish.
00:52:14.079 --> 00:52:14.480
Yeah.
00:52:14.719 --> 00:52:15.039
Yeah.
00:52:15.360 --> 00:52:23.679
So anyway, anytime he was he would always come if we wanted, if we ever asked him to come and do it, he never said no.
00:52:24.239 --> 00:52:24.880
Interesting.
00:52:25.039 --> 00:52:26.559
So he was around a lot.
00:52:26.960 --> 00:52:28.400
Did you get to know him?
00:52:29.599 --> 00:52:30.320
Cursory.
00:52:31.280 --> 00:52:31.760
Go ahead.
00:52:31.840 --> 00:52:32.400
I mean, I guess.
00:52:33.039 --> 00:52:43.199
You know, you're not gonna you're not gonna form and and a lot of that is a little bit of timidity, you know.
00:52:44.079 --> 00:52:46.000
Well, what was what was the age difference?
00:52:46.320 --> 00:52:47.519
Between me and Larry?
00:52:48.639 --> 00:52:53.599
Oh gosh, I would uh you said you were 13 when you first saw him, so would you was he in his 20s?
00:52:53.760 --> 00:52:54.000
Was he?
00:52:54.400 --> 00:52:56.239
No, he had to be in his 30s, I would think.
00:52:56.400 --> 00:52:56.639
Okay.
00:52:56.719 --> 00:52:56.800
Yeah.
00:52:57.039 --> 00:52:57.760
It's like double.
00:52:57.840 --> 00:52:58.000
Yeah.
00:52:58.159 --> 00:52:58.239
Yeah.
00:52:58.480 --> 00:52:59.679
Like twice your age, yeah.
00:53:00.239 --> 00:53:03.519
At that time at that time, sorry, yeah, that doesn't stay with you, does it?
00:53:03.599 --> 00:53:05.440
You you can't stay double age, yeah.
00:53:05.599 --> 00:53:13.119
Yeah, he's I guess I'm guessing he was 15, 16, 17 years older than me, something like that.
00:53:13.280 --> 00:53:13.920
I'm just guessing.
00:53:14.079 --> 00:53:14.880
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:53:15.039 --> 00:53:16.320
Okay, so you didn't really get to know him.
00:53:16.480 --> 00:53:20.960
Did he have uh was there a lot of myth surrounding him and a lot of no.
00:53:21.440 --> 00:53:21.760
Okay.
00:53:23.199 --> 00:53:28.960
Regular guy, kind of, I mean, nothing there was no crazy stories about him, it wasn't like that.
00:53:29.199 --> 00:53:29.440
No.
00:53:29.599 --> 00:53:29.840
Okay.
00:53:30.159 --> 00:53:30.320
Okay.
00:53:30.480 --> 00:53:31.199
Not that I'm aware of.
00:53:31.440 --> 00:53:34.000
Yeah, no, I was just curious, like, you know, if there was a thing.
00:53:34.159 --> 00:53:36.960
Larry London, that large appetite for life, that kind of thing.
00:53:37.199 --> 00:53:37.760
You know what I mean.
00:53:37.840 --> 00:53:38.800
I just Yeah, I do.
00:53:38.960 --> 00:53:43.199
Well, you know, he uh he studied martial arts.
00:53:43.760 --> 00:53:47.119
He he he had some kind of background in that.
00:53:47.360 --> 00:53:49.760
I'm not re so you weren't gonna trifle with him.
00:53:50.000 --> 00:53:50.400
Interesting.
00:53:50.480 --> 00:53:51.280
Because he was a big guy.
00:53:51.599 --> 00:53:52.400
He was a big guy.
00:53:52.639 --> 00:53:53.280
Yeah, yeah.
00:53:53.440 --> 00:53:54.239
Yeah, big guy.
00:53:54.559 --> 00:53:54.960
Interesting.
00:53:55.119 --> 00:53:55.519
All right.
00:53:55.760 --> 00:54:00.159
But so but again, so no time where he ever like gave you advice as far as working.
00:54:00.800 --> 00:54:04.800
You know, the best advice he ever gave me, he never really gave me direct directly.
00:54:04.960 --> 00:54:15.760
It was just his example of how he dealt with people in in that position, you know, people that had come to see him or things like that.
00:54:15.920 --> 00:54:24.320
Just his how he chose to deal with people and relate to people was telling to me, you know, because he could have been a dick if he wanted to be.
00:54:24.400 --> 00:54:24.800
Yeah.
00:54:24.960 --> 00:54:26.960
You know, or if he didn't care.
00:54:27.519 --> 00:54:33.280
Well, you seem like someone clearly who's uh easygoing, and you tend you uh you you give that off.
00:54:33.360 --> 00:54:43.039
You give off this kind of like you said, you're sort of detached and like, yeah, hey man, you know, just I'm easy going, and I'll and this didn't seem to be something you had to really work on so much, is it?
00:54:43.119 --> 00:54:44.559
Like that's just your personality.
00:54:44.880 --> 00:54:47.119
I think it's kind of my nature, I think.
00:54:47.440 --> 00:54:47.760
Yeah.
00:54:48.000 --> 00:54:54.239
My dad was a pretty intense character, and and and it and it was a little bit scary at times.
00:54:55.039 --> 00:55:06.880
And um, you know, and I just I think that kind of set me on a little course of I don't want people to feel I don't want people to feel that from me.
00:55:08.000 --> 00:55:08.639
You know.
00:55:09.199 --> 00:55:20.480
And it was it was not anything weird, it was just, you know, you you're faced with something, you make a choice of do I want to be this or do I want to be that?
00:55:20.719 --> 00:55:21.039
Yeah.
00:55:21.199 --> 00:55:21.599
You know?
00:55:21.760 --> 00:55:26.880
And and I just, for me, I'm much more comfortable this way.
00:55:28.559 --> 00:55:34.800
I'm just not a very confrontational guy, uh unless it's just demanded.
00:55:35.440 --> 00:55:37.679
You know, and and sometimes you have to be.
00:55:37.840 --> 00:55:44.800
Sometimes you just have to stand your ground and say, you know what, that's not that's wrong.
00:55:44.960 --> 00:55:48.159
That's not what what this should be.
00:55:48.639 --> 00:55:53.360
And and and if you want it to be that, that's fine, but I'm not gonna participate.
00:55:54.000 --> 00:55:57.519
You know, and and then then you just walk away and leave it.
00:55:57.760 --> 00:55:59.119
Have you done that on gigs?
00:56:00.719 --> 00:56:03.199
Uh I'm trying to think.
00:56:12.480 --> 00:56:14.320
Like you'll you'll you'll do the job.
00:56:14.559 --> 00:56:24.639
In other words, you're on a job, and even if you think like I'm not, and this is not what I would do, this is not the way I would handle it, and all that stuff, you're like, you know what, they're paying me, I'll finish, and then I'm out of here.
00:56:24.800 --> 00:56:25.440
Yeah, yeah.
00:56:25.519 --> 00:56:27.519
Uh there there yeah, there's that.
00:56:27.599 --> 00:56:27.840
Yeah.
00:56:28.000 --> 00:56:40.320
Now there are things that I've chosen not to do for those reasons.
00:56:40.719 --> 00:56:45.519
So I never did get to the point where I had to go in and confront the issue.
00:56:45.599 --> 00:56:46.639
I just didn't go.
00:56:46.880 --> 00:56:49.119
I just did, you know, I chose to not participate.
00:56:49.440 --> 00:56:55.199
Is it is it is it people that you you you you had worked with before and you'd had these experiences and you just thought, never again.
00:56:55.360 --> 00:56:57.599
So they called and you're like, no, no, I know you.
00:56:57.760 --> 00:56:58.000
No.
00:56:58.159 --> 00:56:58.880
Is it like that?
00:56:59.119 --> 00:56:59.920
Occasionally, yeah.
00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:00.559
Yeah, yeah.
00:57:00.719 --> 00:57:00.880
Yeah.
00:57:01.039 --> 00:57:02.559
And sometimes is it is it you get to be.
00:57:02.639 --> 00:57:07.039
And and and but I always just politely say, Man, I'm sorry, I just can't.
00:57:07.199 --> 00:57:07.519
Right.
00:57:07.679 --> 00:57:07.920
You know.
00:57:08.159 --> 00:57:08.320
Sure.
00:57:08.480 --> 00:57:09.199
I'm busy, right?
00:57:09.519 --> 00:57:11.599
It's not, it's not you don't have to tell them why.
00:57:11.760 --> 00:57:12.559
Yeah, no, no, no.
00:57:12.639 --> 00:57:13.360
No, no, no, no.
00:57:13.760 --> 00:57:14.239
Pointless.
00:57:14.400 --> 00:57:16.079
What's that what is that gonna do?
00:57:16.320 --> 00:57:16.719
Nothing.
00:57:16.960 --> 00:57:17.519
Nothing.
00:57:17.760 --> 00:57:18.559
Exactly.
00:57:18.960 --> 00:57:23.519
What it's gonna do is they're gonna go tell other people, that son of a bitch.
00:57:23.840 --> 00:57:26.880
Can you believe he's you know, that's what it's gonna do.
00:57:27.119 --> 00:57:27.599
Yeah.
00:57:27.920 --> 00:57:33.280
Have you ever suffered from what's known as imposter syndrome?
00:57:33.679 --> 00:57:34.559
Do you know what that is?
00:57:34.719 --> 00:57:34.960
No.
00:57:35.199 --> 00:57:40.480
Do you have you ever felt like on a gig like I'm not good enough for this and they're gonna find out?
00:57:41.760 --> 00:57:48.800
I have shh uh Yes, but I've cop I've copped to it immediately.
00:57:48.880 --> 00:57:55.119
I I don't ever if it's something I know is out of my element, I tell them right then.
00:57:55.360 --> 00:57:57.280
It's like, man, I'm sorry.
00:57:57.360 --> 00:58:04.719
I this is something so totally out of my wheelhouse that I'm wasting your time if we even try this.
00:58:04.960 --> 00:58:06.320
What would be an example?
00:58:06.559 --> 00:58:07.840
Anything jazz.
00:58:10.000 --> 00:58:16.559
So then you get called in at a session and they're like, hey, it's uh it's this jazz thing, and then you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, buddy.
00:58:16.639 --> 00:58:22.880
Like Well, I always tell them that, and and pretty much inevitably they'd say, Well, just take a shot.
00:58:23.039 --> 00:58:27.039
You know, and it's like, oh, I'll do the best I can.
00:58:27.360 --> 00:58:36.400
You know, I'll I will my limited vocabulary in this genre, you know, I'll do the best I can.
00:58:36.639 --> 00:58:37.280
And can you?
00:58:37.360 --> 00:58:39.360
I mean, do you do you feel like you can?
00:58:39.440 --> 00:58:41.519
I mean I don't know that.
00:58:41.679 --> 00:58:42.719
I don't have that answer.
00:58:43.039 --> 00:58:44.559
It's not for you to decide, it's for you.
00:58:44.800 --> 00:58:46.000
No, it's not for me to decide.
00:58:46.159 --> 00:58:49.440
Yeah, if I if they wind up using it, it evidently was good enough.
00:58:49.760 --> 00:58:52.079
But is there another genre that would throw you?
00:58:52.239 --> 00:58:53.440
And you said, no, no, no.
00:58:56.480 --> 00:58:57.920
Would you play in metal?
00:58:59.440 --> 00:59:01.039
Um, I have.
00:59:02.960 --> 00:59:05.679
Um can you do double kick?
00:59:07.920 --> 00:59:08.559
I have.
00:59:09.599 --> 00:59:11.039
I don't enjoy it.
00:59:12.000 --> 00:59:13.440
Uh I don't enjoy it.
00:59:13.519 --> 00:59:23.920
I I I I you know there's I guess there's a line for me between heavy, heavy rock and metal, metal, metal.
00:59:24.159 --> 00:59:42.960
You know, and and and at I first of all, I wouldn't I don't think I would take a real metal session once again because I just I don't relate to it, you know, uh, on really kind of any level, and that's okay.
00:59:43.199 --> 00:59:46.320
But something really hard, hard rock I do relate to.
00:59:46.559 --> 00:59:48.159
Kind of ACDC vibe.
00:59:48.320 --> 00:59:51.679
Well, or even deep purple or there you go, grand funk, that thing.
00:59:51.840 --> 00:59:52.400
Yeah, that kind of thing.
00:59:52.639 --> 00:59:53.760
Zeppelin thing, like that.
00:59:54.159 --> 00:59:54.800
Yeah, yeah.
00:59:55.280 --> 00:59:56.320
Driving power.
00:59:56.639 --> 00:59:56.880
Yeah.
00:59:57.039 --> 00:59:57.440
Mm-hmm.
00:59:57.679 --> 00:59:59.199
Different, different ball game.
00:59:59.440 --> 01:00:01.039
Do you like country music?
01:00:01.360 --> 01:00:01.840
I do.
01:00:01.920 --> 01:00:02.559
I I do.
01:00:02.719 --> 01:00:10.079
I I like um, I mean, I grew up exposed to a lot of it with my grandparents and stuff like that.
01:00:10.159 --> 01:00:23.360
And in Memphis, uh, you know, on weekends, just like there was pretty much anywhere down south, there was always country music shows, local country music shows, variety shows on on TV on the weekends.
01:00:23.440 --> 01:00:25.039
You just watched them, you know.
01:00:25.840 --> 01:00:36.400
Uh, and you know, some of my early records were Flat and Scrubs things and uh Pearl, Pearl, Pearl, Won't You Be My Girl, you know, those kind of things.
01:00:36.480 --> 01:00:38.960
I still have that 45 somewhere.
01:00:39.199 --> 01:00:47.599
Uh so you know, the country I grew up on was, you know, what they would say today they would call it, oh, that's real country, you know.
01:00:47.840 --> 01:01:04.960
But but people don't really think about it that I mean all through all through those earlier years and in the 60s and 70s, you know, people decry now, oh, you know, country's just bad pop, blah, blah.
01:01:05.199 --> 01:01:07.119
Well, but the country always had a pop element.
01:01:07.280 --> 01:01:09.039
What do you think Harper Valley PTA was?
01:01:09.119 --> 01:01:10.239
It was a pop hit.
01:01:10.800 --> 01:01:13.679
You know, it was an AM radio pop hit.
01:01:14.000 --> 01:01:18.800
Uh, you know, a lot of that that uh uptown country they would call it.
01:01:18.880 --> 01:01:33.280
I think I think uh uh Owen Bradley, uh that Patsy Klein stuff that was very orchestral and and uh you know big arrangements and stuff like that.
01:01:33.519 --> 01:01:36.800
It was not those were kind of pop records.
01:01:36.880 --> 01:01:42.239
They were very Sinatra-esque, except for her voice, you know, and the lyric.
01:01:42.480 --> 01:01:48.880
But the approach was that was you know, was not, you know what I'm saying.
01:01:49.119 --> 01:01:51.039
It's big budget stuff.
01:01:51.360 --> 01:02:03.039
This is this is uh there's always been that cross-polonization element in the country genre, you know.
01:02:03.119 --> 01:02:06.719
It it's always had a it wasn't always just banjos and fiddles.
01:02:06.960 --> 01:02:13.199
Well, I mean, when you go into such in a studio uh uh with a with a guy, I mean, is is the assumption we're here to make a hit.
01:02:13.519 --> 01:02:17.760
Is that the assumption that you think that they're looking we're trying to get on the radio here?
01:02:18.000 --> 01:02:19.280
Yeah, that's always what they're doing.
01:02:19.440 --> 01:02:19.840
Yeah.
01:02:20.000 --> 01:02:20.639
Yeah.
01:02:21.039 --> 01:02:21.679
Yeah.
01:02:22.000 --> 01:02:33.039
And and for better or for worse, that dictates a lot of the sameness of a lot of what goes on.
01:02:33.679 --> 01:02:39.119
Because if this was a hit, then this, this, this, this will be a hit because they're exactly like this.
01:02:39.599 --> 01:02:39.760
Totally.
01:02:39.920 --> 01:02:40.400
Formula, yeah.
01:02:40.639 --> 01:02:47.679
You know, yeah, and then that that runs its course, and then you stumble into the next thing, and then you do 20 versions of that.
01:02:47.920 --> 01:02:50.719
Do you have do you have do you think in BPMs?
01:02:52.239 --> 01:02:54.239
Not hard BPMs.
01:02:54.400 --> 01:02:55.599
I range?
01:02:56.079 --> 01:02:59.760
Yeah, because it's all based on the vocal cadence.
01:03:00.559 --> 01:03:03.280
When the words flow, that's the tempo.
01:03:04.559 --> 01:03:04.880
Yeah.
01:03:05.119 --> 01:03:06.079
You know what I'm saying?
01:03:06.559 --> 01:03:08.639
It's like, just listen to the singer.
01:03:08.880 --> 01:03:12.719
You know, if he's struggling to get the words in, the song's too damn fast.
01:03:13.199 --> 01:03:13.840
You know.
01:03:14.320 --> 01:03:16.559
If if if you're falling asleep.
01:03:16.800 --> 01:03:18.320
Unless it's I've been everywhere or something.
01:03:18.559 --> 01:03:18.719
Right.
01:03:19.039 --> 01:03:19.519
There's a cover.
01:03:21.840 --> 01:03:23.119
But I get that's an interesting point.
01:03:23.199 --> 01:03:25.119
If they're struggling, it's too fast.
01:03:25.280 --> 01:03:25.440
Yeah.
01:03:25.679 --> 01:03:26.480
So is that on you?
01:03:26.559 --> 01:03:27.599
Do you say, hey, hey, hey.
01:03:27.840 --> 01:03:30.960
Well, the producer, I think you hope the producer notices.
01:03:31.199 --> 01:03:34.880
And but if not, do you say, hey, I think we should someone will.
01:03:35.519 --> 01:03:44.960
The guys on the floor, their only interest is really trying to make this, and it's across the board on the studio floor, uh at every chair.
01:03:45.199 --> 01:03:48.480
You know, everybody just wants this to be the best it can be.
01:03:48.719 --> 01:03:52.719
So you never let you never let an obvious thing just go.
01:03:53.679 --> 01:03:57.840
If they say no, then you let it go and you do and you do that.
01:03:58.480 --> 01:04:00.559
But it's never wrong.
01:04:01.039 --> 01:04:02.400
Of course, it's all in approach.
01:04:02.480 --> 01:04:11.920
It's like, man, could we just try this just, you know, a beat and a half down, you know, just to see.
01:04:12.000 --> 01:04:20.800
It just sound it really just sounds like this is all just crammed together, you know, and you hope the guy'll say, Yeah, man, you know, let's try it.
01:04:20.880 --> 01:04:24.559
You know, but a good producer is listening to that very thing.
01:04:24.719 --> 01:04:35.760
You know, he he he's listening to the to the full picture, and he understands the full picture, and and so yeah, he's the one likely to say, you know what, we're two beats too quick.
01:04:36.559 --> 01:04:46.960
But on the other hand, he knows how important tempo is, and and he's he might say, Man, this feels good where it's at, but you know what?
01:04:47.199 --> 01:04:51.280
Can we just try it a couple up or one up just to see?
01:04:51.440 --> 01:04:58.480
Because if it gives it that little extra edge without ruining things, he's gonna take it.
01:04:58.639 --> 01:04:59.280
Right.
01:04:59.599 --> 01:05:00.639
You know, right.
01:05:01.760 --> 01:05:11.519
So when you're in a store, you're in the supermarket, you're in the car, whatever it is, you're at the airport, you know, you know, it's a and it a song comes on and it's like, oh that that's me.
01:05:12.159 --> 01:05:13.280
It happens occasionally.
01:05:13.519 --> 01:05:13.760
Right?
01:05:14.000 --> 01:05:14.639
Of course it happens.
01:05:15.280 --> 01:05:16.559
You can't escape that, right?
01:05:16.719 --> 01:05:17.440
You can't escape.
01:05:17.599 --> 01:05:20.159
Well, no, and it it's a point of pride.
01:05:20.320 --> 01:05:20.480
Yeah.
01:05:20.719 --> 01:05:25.920
You know, uh it's not like you're walking down through the airport or hey, hey, that's me.
01:05:26.079 --> 01:05:26.639
That's me.
01:05:26.880 --> 01:05:32.960
But you know, well, but I you know it's you know, you'll smile about it because it's like, oh yeah, I remember that.
01:05:33.039 --> 01:05:33.840
That was a good one.
01:05:34.000 --> 01:05:35.280
Do you remember them all?
01:05:35.679 --> 01:05:37.280
I remember a lot of them.
01:05:37.519 --> 01:05:41.840
You think there's a lot of times also where it comes on, it's on and you're thinking, could be me.
01:05:42.079 --> 01:05:42.719
Yeah.
01:05:43.360 --> 01:05:44.000
Don't know.
01:05:44.239 --> 01:05:44.719
Don't be.
01:05:45.199 --> 01:05:45.360
Yeah.
01:05:45.679 --> 01:05:46.719
Sounds kind of familiar.
01:05:46.880 --> 01:05:47.119
Yeah.
01:05:47.519 --> 01:05:48.400
There are those tones.
01:05:48.559 --> 01:05:48.800
Yeah.
01:05:50.159 --> 01:05:59.599
What what what are some of the biggest that you just off the top of your head when you think of like that you ones you couldn't escape, they just all of a sudden this song was just everywhere, you know.
01:06:00.079 --> 01:06:01.119
Like, oh, that was me.
01:06:01.440 --> 01:06:07.280
Well, um the strawberry wine was the first one that Dina Carter cut.
01:06:07.440 --> 01:06:07.519
Yeah.
01:06:07.760 --> 01:06:10.960
Because it was a very unusual song to begin with.
01:06:11.519 --> 01:06:12.159
You know.
01:06:12.719 --> 01:06:18.559
And she delivered it so big, you know, she just she really delivered that song.
01:06:18.800 --> 01:06:29.280
And it was a big kind of, you know, 6'8, slow 6'8, you know, essentially kind of a soul ballad, you know.
01:06:30.400 --> 01:06:42.079
And um it was pushing five minutes, which was everything about it deemed it shouldn't have never should have never been a hit.
01:06:42.320 --> 01:06:47.280
And it was huge because it pulled that chain for people.
01:06:47.519 --> 01:06:50.559
You know, it's like, oh yeah, I remember those days.
01:06:50.800 --> 01:06:53.360
You know, it was very, it's compelling.
01:06:53.599 --> 01:06:55.679
You know, it's just a compelling record.
01:06:55.840 --> 01:06:56.000
Yeah.
01:06:56.159 --> 01:07:05.920
And that was the that was really the very first mainstream natural successful thing I ever did was that.
01:07:06.239 --> 01:07:34.159
And I remember, I remember it very vividly because I walked into Emerald Studios, didn't know a soul there, had never worked with any of those these guys, which which were the LA Joe Shimay and John Hobbs, and uh Biff, well the those two were uh from from Los Angeles, and Biff Watson and Brent Rowan, uh Dan Dougmore, and I think Larry Franklin played fiddle on it.
01:07:34.559 --> 01:07:39.199
But I had never really met any of them, and they didn't know me from Adam.
01:07:39.679 --> 01:07:44.480
You know, I I'm sure I was not the guy they were expecting to show up.
01:07:44.880 --> 01:07:51.199
They they probably knew a little bit out, hey, we're gonna try this new drummer, you know.
01:07:51.440 --> 01:07:51.760
Right.
01:07:51.920 --> 01:07:54.719
Just we're just gonna try it and see what happens, you know.
01:07:54.960 --> 01:07:56.480
Was it the producer who gave you the shot?
01:07:56.719 --> 01:08:02.719
Uh it was the production, the producer's production assistant that convinced him to give me a shot.
01:08:03.199 --> 01:08:05.119
Lauren Cook was her name.
01:08:05.840 --> 01:08:09.119
Because he he was new to town too, Chris Farron at the time.
01:08:09.199 --> 01:08:12.480
He he was just kind of making his mark in Nashville.
01:08:12.639 --> 01:08:19.199
He had done a number of things at Los Angeles with Boy Howdy, that band, and and and had some success with them.
01:08:19.600 --> 01:08:27.920
But he had moved to town and was, you know, he was intent on making his mark, which he did, and he's he was always really good to me.
01:08:28.159 --> 01:08:29.680
Very successful guy.
01:08:30.239 --> 01:08:35.119
So, you know, we were a little bit in the same boat, but not really, you know.
01:08:35.199 --> 01:08:37.039
I was really the unknown quantity.
01:08:37.119 --> 01:08:43.680
Yeah, you know, and and you know, they they they did not give me the stink eye or anything, you know.
01:08:43.760 --> 01:08:49.600
We just they let us let us go out there and we counted it off, and I just dove in and played.
01:08:50.239 --> 01:09:00.319
And um I I think it did I don't think it took long for them to realize I wasn't gonna blow the session up.
01:09:00.560 --> 01:09:15.840
You know, I I was not gonna cause us to not get what we needed or you know, make things not as good as they thought they should be, you know, that I could, you know, I could handle the job, I guess is what I'm saying.
01:09:16.000 --> 01:09:21.439
You know, but I didn't go in there beating my chest saying, hey, y'all just watch this, you know.
01:09:21.840 --> 01:09:24.079
There's a level of deference you gotta have.
01:09:24.159 --> 01:09:24.319
Yeah.
01:09:24.479 --> 01:09:28.319
You know, everybody deserves respect on on some level on a on a date.
01:09:28.399 --> 01:09:30.399
You know, you're all there together.
01:09:30.800 --> 01:09:35.760
And uh, you know, you just you gotta give a guy a chance.
01:09:36.159 --> 01:09:51.680
Have you ever gotten a chance to compare notes with uh you know guys like Jim Keltner or Steve Jordan or you know, just you know, I've never met either of them, and I would love to, uh, but I just don't know how the opportunity would present itself.
01:09:51.920 --> 01:09:52.640
Right, right.
01:09:52.800 --> 01:10:02.319
Um because Keltner, you know, obviously uh uh Mad Dogs and English one was a very formative record for me and my youth, and and it was he and Jim Gordon.
01:10:02.560 --> 01:10:04.319
I would say isn't Jim Gordon another one a year?
01:10:04.960 --> 01:10:08.479
Well that record was my first exposure to him.
01:10:09.279 --> 01:10:16.640
Uh and so as a kid, I think that record came out when I was 12, maybe.
01:10:18.159 --> 01:10:21.520
And you know, you don't really have a full understanding of what you're hearing.
01:10:21.680 --> 01:10:24.239
Once again, it's just like the rock and roll intro.
01:10:24.319 --> 01:10:29.199
You don't have a on some level you don't really have a full understanding of what you're hearing.
01:10:29.439 --> 01:10:46.720
And so when I would play along with Mad Dogs and Eastman, I was trying to sound like both of them at the same time, you know, because they're both playing something like, you know, I'm playing Keltner's part some of the time, and I'm playing Gordon's part some of the time all at the same time, you know, just trying to make it sound that big.
01:10:46.960 --> 01:10:50.399
And of course it wasn't successful, but but you know what I'm saying.
01:10:50.479 --> 01:10:57.279
You you hear that and you're just trying to learn, and sometimes it just turns into something else, you know, altogether.
01:10:58.800 --> 01:10:59.760
But yeah.
01:10:59.920 --> 01:11:04.000
Um favorites, like in other words, I mean, are you a Hal Blaine guy?
01:11:04.079 --> 01:11:06.800
Like, do you have guys when as you became more of a studio guy?
01:11:06.960 --> 01:11:11.520
Were you looking into other studio guys and paying attention?
01:11:12.239 --> 01:11:12.640
Not really.
01:11:12.720 --> 01:11:13.520
Just doing your own thing.
01:11:13.840 --> 01:11:14.880
No, yeah.
01:11:14.960 --> 01:11:15.600
Uh uh.
01:11:17.199 --> 01:11:24.079
Yeah, I d I mean I don't recall consciously uh thinking about it.
01:11:24.319 --> 01:11:27.439
Because it's for me, it's just playing a song.
01:11:27.920 --> 01:11:28.239
Right.
01:11:28.479 --> 01:11:32.640
You either know how to you either know how to present songs or you don't.
01:11:32.880 --> 01:11:34.399
You know, uh you know what I'm saying?
01:11:34.560 --> 01:11:37.039
I mean, do you so in other words you mentioned Bobby Graham.
01:11:37.119 --> 01:11:41.199
Like, are you just thinking back to that kind of stuff where you're like, hey, look, that's how you play a song, man.
01:11:41.279 --> 01:11:42.159
It's just that simple.
01:11:42.239 --> 01:11:44.640
Like Well, yeah, of course.
01:11:44.720 --> 01:11:48.159
I mean, uh, because all of those bands, uh, they were all song-driven.
01:11:48.479 --> 01:11:49.359
Well, yeah, I'm right.
01:11:49.439 --> 01:11:50.239
That's what you're saying, though.
01:11:50.479 --> 01:11:51.760
You're saying it's all about playing the song.
01:11:52.000 --> 01:11:53.119
It's just playing a song, right?
01:11:53.840 --> 01:11:54.640
Presenting it.
01:11:55.199 --> 01:12:02.479
And for me, that's that's an ability.
01:12:03.439 --> 01:12:07.199
I don't know if it's I don't know if it's learned or innate.
01:12:07.600 --> 01:12:09.039
I'm not really sure.
01:12:09.439 --> 01:12:15.760
Uh because people have kind of asked me that a lot a lot fairly recently.
01:12:15.840 --> 01:12:19.760
It's like, well, when when you're getting ready to cut something, how what are you thinking about?
01:12:19.840 --> 01:12:23.600
Or how are you, you know, contemplating what you're gonna do?
01:12:23.680 --> 01:12:33.840
And and from and I had to think about it, it's like, well, okay, what pay attention next time you're fixing you're in the control room and you're fixing to step out and go do a song.
01:12:34.000 --> 01:12:38.000
Pay attention and see if you can identify what's going on in your head.
01:12:38.560 --> 01:12:54.239
And and and the best analogy I can kind of come up with is like when when when the work tape starts or whatever it is, they're however it is they're showing us what we're gonna do, you know, presenting the song to us in the control room before we go out.
01:12:54.399 --> 01:12:56.720
It's like a movie reel starts.
01:12:58.880 --> 01:13:03.039
And I see the picture of the song in my mind's eye, you know.
01:13:04.239 --> 01:13:13.840
As they're playing whatever it is they're playing, what I'm gonna do just appears behind it in my mind, you know, or what I'm gonna try.
01:13:14.000 --> 01:13:18.640
It just presents itself just as it's going, like that.
01:13:18.960 --> 01:13:21.680
And and then, okay, let's go.
01:13:21.840 --> 01:13:23.600
So then we go out, and that's what I try.
01:13:23.760 --> 01:13:29.520
Because you're free of all stress, you're free of all tension in those moments recording.
01:13:30.239 --> 01:13:31.439
I'm not worried about it, no.
01:13:31.680 --> 01:13:32.399
You're not thinking.
01:13:32.560 --> 01:13:34.399
It's a natural place for you to be.
01:13:34.560 --> 01:13:35.119
I guess.
01:13:35.279 --> 01:13:35.760
I don't know.
01:13:35.920 --> 01:13:36.159
Yeah.
01:13:36.319 --> 01:13:37.600
Well, because you don't think about it.
01:13:37.680 --> 01:13:40.800
I I I I mean, I don't consciously no, I don't know.
01:13:40.960 --> 01:13:45.760
Nothing makes you worried or tense, or you're not never overthinking in those moments.
01:13:46.000 --> 01:13:46.880
Ideally, yeah.
01:13:47.039 --> 01:13:47.199
Right.
01:13:47.279 --> 01:13:53.359
Like like you mean you mentioned baseball, like the hitter at the plate, just yeah, relaxed, yeah, ready.
01:13:54.239 --> 01:13:55.119
Make your pitch.
01:13:55.359 --> 01:13:56.239
I guess, yeah.
01:13:56.560 --> 01:14:06.960
See there's so much intangible about it, about this, about this particular uh skill set in recording.
01:14:07.119 --> 01:14:16.960
You know, it is a different skill set, and and especially it's a different skill set, and then it's yet a different skill set in Nashville, because Nashville works really fast.
01:14:17.520 --> 01:14:18.960
I mean, really fast.
01:14:19.359 --> 01:14:28.479
You know, in in Los Angeles, there you those legendary stories of, yeah, we worked a week on the snare drum sound, and then we had to change the head and start again.
01:14:29.600 --> 01:14:30.079
You know?
01:14:30.239 --> 01:14:30.640
Yeah.
01:14:30.960 --> 01:14:31.279
No.
01:14:32.000 --> 01:14:48.880
Uh uh in Nashville, I mean, the pace, a recording pace is is historically it has been what people would say very leisurely here, where it was basically a song, a session.
01:14:48.960 --> 01:14:51.279
Well, a session's only three hours.
01:14:51.840 --> 01:14:59.760
In in Los Angeles, in the heyday, in the first three hours, you may get lunch ordered.
01:15:00.159 --> 01:15:01.039
You know what I'm saying?
01:15:01.119 --> 01:15:02.239
It's a different mindset.
01:15:02.319 --> 01:15:05.359
I'm not begr you know knocking that at all.
01:15:05.680 --> 01:15:07.600
It is a different thing.
01:15:07.760 --> 01:15:12.000
It's almost it's interesting because it's almost such a more New York kind of thing to be like, come on, let's go.
01:15:12.079 --> 01:15:14.960
Time is money, let's go, let's go, but yet it's Nashville.
01:15:15.199 --> 01:15:15.840
Yeah.
01:15:16.720 --> 01:15:19.039
And it's never really It's never that either.
01:15:19.119 --> 01:15:20.880
It is not let's go, let's get there is not a good thing.
01:15:21.039 --> 01:15:22.159
No, it's just a given.
01:15:22.319 --> 01:15:22.800
It's understood.
01:15:23.039 --> 01:15:28.560
So know that you've got two sessions booked that day, and you know what you're expected to get.
01:15:28.800 --> 01:15:32.000
And it used to be literally a session a song.
01:15:32.079 --> 01:15:42.159
Well, now that budgets have changed, and and you know, as will happen, uh the corporate entities hand down edicts that, you know, we need to get more for less.
01:15:42.399 --> 01:15:42.560
Yeah.
01:15:42.720 --> 01:15:50.960
And so now in those, in those two sessions where you used to get two songs, they may push for five.
01:15:51.199 --> 01:15:51.520
Yeah.
01:15:51.760 --> 01:15:53.520
You know, maybe.
01:15:53.680 --> 01:15:53.840
Yeah.
01:15:54.000 --> 01:15:57.600
So the Matt booked two sessions in an hour of overtime or something like that.
01:15:57.680 --> 01:15:58.079
Yeah.
01:15:58.239 --> 01:16:02.640
So, you know, they always they always want everybody always wants more for less.
01:16:02.720 --> 01:16:04.079
It's not, you know what I mean?
01:16:04.239 --> 01:16:07.279
It's just that's the business angle of it, of, of literally everything.
01:16:07.359 --> 01:16:09.199
It's not I yeah, hard and fast.
01:16:09.600 --> 01:16:12.479
Because everything has to become business, unfortunately, it's the way it is.
01:16:12.640 --> 01:16:13.039
I get that.
01:16:13.199 --> 01:16:15.600
Um, by the way, you you've been around the business.
01:16:15.680 --> 01:16:16.640
I mean, you've seen it all.
01:16:16.720 --> 01:16:19.439
I mean, I'm sure you've seen a lot of like the drugs and the alcohol.
01:16:19.520 --> 01:16:21.119
That's uh that can be a part of things.
01:16:21.279 --> 01:16:23.760
Have you did you that ever Well, I've seen the results of it.
01:16:24.000 --> 01:16:24.960
That's what right, right.
01:16:25.039 --> 01:16:27.680
And did any of that ever become an issue for you in your career?
01:16:27.920 --> 01:16:28.399
No, no, no.
01:16:28.479 --> 01:16:29.600
You just never touched the stuff?
01:16:30.000 --> 01:16:30.239
Yeah.
01:16:30.479 --> 01:16:30.720
No.
01:16:30.880 --> 01:16:31.119
Yeah.
01:16:31.279 --> 01:16:36.000
I mean, I I might have a cocktail sometime in the evening.
01:16:36.479 --> 01:16:41.279
I've I don't even know why, just sometimes it sounds good, you know.
01:16:41.520 --> 01:16:50.239
But no, I've never smoked pot or done any any indulgent what they what they call now recreational drugs.
01:16:50.960 --> 01:16:54.319
Recreation was the ferret's wheel, you know, that it was the swing set.
01:16:54.560 --> 01:16:55.600
That was recreation.
01:16:55.760 --> 01:16:55.920
Right.
01:16:56.079 --> 01:16:57.119
I never really thought of it.
01:16:57.199 --> 01:17:04.159
Well, what I'm curious though, like was that ever a thing in in the in the time you've had in Nashville Studios scene?
01:17:04.239 --> 01:17:15.359
Like, were there guys who Well that was like an open secret where they were you knew they were recreational using on the sessions, and it was just sort of like, yeah, he does his job, so who cares?
01:17:15.600 --> 01:17:22.800
I gotta I gotta say, by the time I got here, all of that was being pretty well frowned upon.
01:17:22.960 --> 01:17:30.720
And and if word got out someone was having those issues, you didn't see them for a while.
01:17:31.359 --> 01:17:41.600
So everybody was a little more on their best behavior and and just you know more more sober about life in general, and and realizing, you know what, that was just bullshit.
01:17:41.760 --> 01:17:45.920
We didn't, you know, we didn't need to be doing that, and you know, whatever.
01:17:46.079 --> 01:17:56.399
Uh I I know there were times where uh there were issues with with some of that with with some guys, and I don't I I don't know any of I don't know who they were.
01:17:56.640 --> 01:17:58.479
And they're hiding it perhaps during it?
01:17:58.720 --> 01:18:03.039
I I think there was a period where they weren't necessarily hiding it, especially drinking.
01:18:03.199 --> 01:18:03.680
Right, right, right.
01:18:04.079 --> 01:18:12.159
I think it probably wasn't you could probably see a flask out on a session, you know, uh at times.
01:18:12.720 --> 01:18:15.119
Uh but I don't know.
01:18:15.199 --> 01:18:20.479
I I I mean the uh It wasn't the LA thing, as you mentioned, where it was like there's the cocaine budget.
01:18:20.560 --> 01:18:21.600
It wasn't, it's not that.
01:18:21.920 --> 01:18:22.960
It was never that, right?
01:18:23.119 --> 01:18:23.920
No, it was never that.
01:18:24.000 --> 01:18:28.000
And and and there was a time where some coke may have shown up at a session, right?
01:18:28.159 --> 01:18:35.119
But it was not like, yeah, we're gonna have, you know, a mayonnaise jar full of cocaine here at 1230, you know, be ready.
01:18:35.600 --> 01:18:37.520
It was never I don't think it was ever that.
01:18:37.600 --> 01:18:47.680
But I wasn't here to to know for sure, but just based on everything I've been told by people that I trust and respect, you know, it was the it was the other thing.
01:18:47.760 --> 01:18:49.600
You know, just occasionally it might show up.
01:18:50.079 --> 01:18:50.720
Sure, sure.
01:18:50.960 --> 01:18:55.520
What what do you what do you do to to cut loose and get out and get away from it?
01:18:55.600 --> 01:18:57.520
Like as far as you know, just off time.
01:18:57.680 --> 01:19:07.039
Like, do you have things you just uh uh hmm that's a good question?
01:19:07.359 --> 01:19:10.079
I have a motorcycle and I ride that some.
01:19:11.199 --> 01:19:15.039
I have a fairly big yard that I mow.
01:19:15.279 --> 01:19:16.720
Some I mow some of it.
01:19:16.800 --> 01:19:18.640
I mow the part that doesn't matter.
01:19:18.960 --> 01:19:28.159
You know, we have we have guys that do the part that's supposed to be pretty, but there's a whole big back section that's basically pasture land, and I I mow that, and that's fun.
01:19:28.239 --> 01:19:28.720
I enjoy that.
01:19:28.800 --> 01:19:35.520
It makes me feel connected, you know, to my home, you know, to get out there and pay attention to the to that.
01:19:36.479 --> 01:19:39.119
But I you know I diddle a lot with drums.
01:19:39.199 --> 01:19:58.560
I I I still kind of fabricate and build stuff, and you know, something needs a bearing edge, I'll get my router table out and put an edge on something, or you know, uh if I take a hanker and I'll might build up a little three-piece kit and just see what happens, you know, for giggles.
01:19:58.640 --> 01:20:03.279
I do enjoy that, and that that comes from all those years back at Strings and Things with Dave.
01:20:03.439 --> 01:20:13.359
I was gonna say, we I I want to ask you actually, when it comes to the wood stuff, and I've been asking guys like the idea of, you know, you know, uh like birch, naturally EQ'd for the studio, right?
01:20:13.840 --> 01:20:14.399
I wouldn't know.
01:20:14.479 --> 01:20:15.760
I've never owned a birch kit.
01:20:15.920 --> 01:20:16.479
Thank you.
01:20:16.800 --> 01:20:17.439
Thank you.
01:20:17.680 --> 01:20:18.399
Interesting.
01:20:18.800 --> 01:20:24.640
I th I think the cold hard truth is the thing that changes your sound more than anything is your head choice.
01:20:25.760 --> 01:20:28.159
An emperor to an ambassador, that kind of thing.
01:20:28.239 --> 01:20:41.279
I don't know what you I use I my thing lately, well for the last good number of years, has been uh smooth white emperors on top and smooth white ambassadors on the bottom.
01:20:41.520 --> 01:20:42.319
Interesting.
01:20:42.399 --> 01:20:53.359
Uh and I and I got that from Steve Turner, who's a great drummer from around, you know, he's from Florida, but he played with Dolly Parton for years and Glenn Campbell and did a bunch of records, a bunch of early Travis Tritt stuff.
01:20:53.520 --> 01:20:54.800
Really great drummer.
01:20:55.439 --> 01:21:00.319
And he called me to sub for him once uh on a demo session.
01:21:00.479 --> 01:21:04.800
I think he got him, I think he got a master, so he needed to find a sub for his demo session.
01:21:05.119 --> 01:21:07.279
It was right right after I got to town.
01:21:07.600 --> 01:21:09.520
He was you know good to me.
01:21:09.680 --> 01:21:14.239
And uh, and I went in and his kit was set up, so I just played his kit.
01:21:14.560 --> 01:21:18.560
And uh and he had those heads on this AOC kit.
01:21:18.800 --> 01:21:21.520
And I remember playing them going, hmm, yeah.
01:21:21.680 --> 01:21:22.960
I'm kind of digging this.
01:21:23.039 --> 01:21:45.119
These sound kind of like at the time I was a coated ambassador guy, but these had enough of the good tone of the coated ambassadors, but they had a little more substance to them, you know, a little more meat in the mid than the ambassadors can be a little bit splashy sometimes to me.
01:21:45.680 --> 01:21:56.800
Uh a little a little thin sounding, oddly enough, being a coated head, but compared to the uh uh smooth white emperors, you know, there's a difference there.
01:21:56.960 --> 01:21:59.119
And you and and longevity, too.
01:21:59.199 --> 01:22:01.439
You know, you'd go I go through a lot more ambassadors.
01:22:01.600 --> 01:22:06.000
Well, sure, but and you but you hear a big difference between coated and smooth.
01:22:06.720 --> 01:22:10.960
Well, I hear a difference between coated ambassadors and smooth white emperors.
01:22:11.199 --> 01:22:15.359
Well, I meant what I meant more like like a smooth emperor versus a coated emperor.
01:22:15.439 --> 01:22:19.199
Like you you hear Well, the smooth emperor's not as dead as a coded emperor.
01:22:19.359 --> 01:22:19.680
Okay.
01:22:20.319 --> 01:22:21.760
So you get a little more ringy?
01:22:22.000 --> 01:22:23.600
Just yeah, a little more tone.
01:22:23.840 --> 01:22:24.479
Interesting.
01:22:25.119 --> 01:22:25.520
Interesting.
01:22:25.680 --> 01:22:28.000
A little more clarity, I guess you'd say.
01:22:28.239 --> 01:22:30.239
And they freaking last forever for me.
01:22:30.399 --> 01:22:36.399
On the on the on the green kit, I haven't changed those heads in at least 10 years.
01:22:37.119 --> 01:22:43.199
It's been I may have changed those heads maybe twice since I've had them.
01:22:43.680 --> 01:22:44.000
Wow.
01:22:44.239 --> 01:22:44.640
Maybe.
01:22:44.800 --> 01:22:46.640
And and and that does that include the kick?
01:22:47.039 --> 01:22:48.239
The kick's never been changed.
01:22:48.479 --> 01:22:49.199
What's on the kick?
01:22:49.279 --> 01:22:49.760
What head?
01:22:49.920 --> 01:22:51.279
Uh Power Stroke 3.
01:22:51.520 --> 01:22:52.079
Coded?
01:22:52.319 --> 01:22:52.960
Smooth white.
01:22:53.119 --> 01:22:54.399
Smooth white.
01:22:54.800 --> 01:22:55.439
Interesting.
01:22:55.600 --> 01:22:56.239
Yeah.
01:22:56.880 --> 01:22:58.000
Those are great heads.
01:22:58.079 --> 01:22:58.960
I love them.
01:22:59.199 --> 01:22:59.680
Yeah.
01:22:59.840 --> 01:23:00.960
No, I get it, I get it.
01:23:01.039 --> 01:23:02.319
So you're saying it's the heads.
01:23:02.560 --> 01:23:04.159
Like we're because I was talking about birch.
01:23:04.239 --> 01:23:06.079
I mean, because you you know what I mean, though, right?
01:23:06.159 --> 01:23:07.199
Like that was they're marketed.
01:23:07.439 --> 01:23:08.000
Oh, oh, sure.
01:23:08.079 --> 01:23:09.680
Well, it's This is for the studio.
01:23:09.840 --> 01:23:11.520
These are the recording customs, darling.
01:23:11.760 --> 01:23:12.560
These are the, you know, these are.
01:23:12.960 --> 01:23:13.840
That's the business side of it.
01:23:14.159 --> 01:23:14.800
That's what I'm saying.
01:23:15.520 --> 01:23:17.359
Have you ever seen them in a studio in Nashville?
01:23:17.680 --> 01:23:18.800
What, birch drums?
01:23:19.039 --> 01:23:21.359
Well, or the even the recording customs?
01:23:21.840 --> 01:23:23.680
Oh, there are guys that use them, yeah.
01:23:23.920 --> 01:23:24.960
But have you ever used them?
01:23:25.279 --> 01:23:26.079
I've never used them.
01:23:26.319 --> 01:23:28.079
Just making a point, that's all.
01:23:28.319 --> 01:23:30.720
I've never owned a kit that wasn't maple.
01:23:31.119 --> 01:23:31.680
Right.
01:23:32.239 --> 01:23:33.840
I mean, honestly.
01:23:34.079 --> 01:23:34.399
Yeah.
01:23:34.640 --> 01:23:36.720
Now, you know, I tell you the thing.
01:23:41.119 --> 01:23:48.159
And it's not just the wood of the shell, it's just the inefficiency of the manufacturing process.
01:23:48.399 --> 01:23:52.399
But 60s Ludwigs absolutely have a sound.
01:23:53.039 --> 01:23:54.800
They have a sound.
01:23:55.279 --> 01:24:07.279
And it's, you know, the inconsistency of the bearing edge being really wide, and the shell barely being round, and, you know, all those things.
01:24:07.359 --> 01:24:18.720
It and and the you know, the when they would roll this is the only way I can explain it, and I've never confirmed that this is fact, but I don't see how it couldn't be fact.
01:24:18.960 --> 01:24:24.399
You know, when they would they would glue the finish on the flat wood before they would bend it.
01:24:24.560 --> 01:24:29.279
That's why that finish goes into the chafe joint like it does.
01:24:30.079 --> 01:24:31.199
You see what I'm saying?
01:24:31.359 --> 01:24:31.680
Okay.
01:24:32.159 --> 01:24:38.399
So they would they would glue the finish on, then bend the shell and tuck tuck that in like you, you know what I'm talking about, right?
01:24:38.479 --> 01:24:38.720
Yeah, yeah.
01:24:38.960 --> 01:24:40.960
You see the finish go into the shell like that.
01:24:41.119 --> 01:24:43.199
That's the only way that could happen.
01:24:44.479 --> 01:24:46.640
Yeah, because you really know you're building them.
01:24:47.039 --> 01:24:49.439
Well, you get obsessed about stuff.
01:24:51.359 --> 01:24:51.680
You know.
01:24:52.000 --> 01:24:55.119
But oh but and by the way, though, you're saying 60s like would have a sound.
01:24:55.439 --> 01:25:00.960
Don't 50s Gretch and 60s Gretsch and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
01:25:01.199 --> 01:25:02.319
Well, yes, Lingerlands.
01:25:02.720 --> 01:25:07.600
But it's not due to the choice of wood they used.
01:25:07.840 --> 01:25:11.039
It's how that wood is processed.
01:25:11.199 --> 01:25:18.319
You know, the 50s and 60s Gretches had the the calf bearing edge that had that was, you know what I'm saying?
01:25:18.399 --> 01:25:32.239
It's that instead of a, instead of a 30, you know, you know what I'm saying, instead of a sharp uh inside to outside cut, it was an outside to end soft roll.
01:25:32.560 --> 01:25:42.800
You know, and my contention was that was done back in the day when calf heads were the norm, and that's what's that's what was putting the collar on the head.
01:25:42.960 --> 01:25:50.720
When you put the head on the shell, that soft edge would put that collar on the head, you know, and let it seed.
01:25:52.479 --> 01:25:57.840
Because, you know, plastic heads weren't out at the time, and the plastic heads have that collar formed in them.
01:25:58.079 --> 01:25:59.600
You know, they have you know what I'm saying?
01:25:59.680 --> 01:26:00.239
They do that.
01:26:00.560 --> 01:26:02.000
Well, calf heads never really did that.
01:26:02.159 --> 01:26:03.840
Calf heads were just flat.
01:26:04.319 --> 01:26:04.880
Gotcha.
01:26:05.039 --> 01:26:06.399
And so, you know.
01:26:06.960 --> 01:26:08.319
It was built for that.
01:26:08.640 --> 01:26:09.520
I thought it was.
01:26:09.680 --> 01:26:11.119
I I think it was.
01:26:11.359 --> 01:26:15.600
I once again I don't have any definitive proof, but that makes sense to me.
01:26:16.000 --> 01:26:18.079
You know, something had to form that head.
01:26:18.399 --> 01:26:26.479
So is your uh is it also mean like a bearing edge today, or should really it should be more about what heads you're realistically using today?
01:26:26.880 --> 01:26:50.960
I think I think the advent of of the of the remote of Remo, you know, coming out with the the Mylar head formed as it should be, as it should sit on the drum, allowed for a uh a difference in that edge, you know, being smaller and less contact and all of that.
01:26:51.039 --> 01:26:52.880
I think that allowed for that.
01:26:53.520 --> 01:26:54.960
I feel like it did.
01:26:55.279 --> 01:27:03.359
But uh, you know, the broadcasters that Gretchen making now have that soft edge on them, you know.
01:27:03.920 --> 01:27:05.039
And it's a sound.
01:27:05.279 --> 01:27:05.600
Yeah.
01:27:05.840 --> 01:27:06.479
It's a big difference.
01:27:06.800 --> 01:27:07.359
Those in the USA.
01:27:07.760 --> 01:27:11.359
The edge, the edge, I guess I should quantify that statement then.
01:27:11.680 --> 01:27:16.399
You know, the edge and the because the edge is like the bridge of a guitar.
01:27:16.960 --> 01:27:18.560
That's the purpose it's serving.
01:27:18.720 --> 01:27:23.840
That's what the sound source is floating on is that edge.
01:27:24.079 --> 01:27:28.800
So how that edge treats the sound source is gonna affect the sound source.
01:27:29.039 --> 01:27:29.520
You know?
01:27:30.319 --> 01:27:32.239
So do you have a preference?
01:27:33.039 --> 01:27:34.079
What kind of bearing edge?
01:27:34.399 --> 01:27:37.199
Um, I like a little bit softer.
01:27:38.079 --> 01:27:38.880
Rounded?
01:27:39.119 --> 01:27:41.119
A little bit rounded, yeah.
01:27:42.560 --> 01:27:44.479
And do you have a guy you ever bring stuff to?
01:27:45.279 --> 01:27:46.159
I just do it myself.
01:27:46.319 --> 01:27:46.960
That's right, that's right.
01:27:47.039 --> 01:27:47.680
What am I saying?
01:27:47.760 --> 01:27:48.560
You do it all yourself.
01:27:48.640 --> 01:27:49.359
You don't need a guy.
01:27:49.439 --> 01:27:50.079
You are the guy.
01:27:50.880 --> 01:27:55.119
So do the guys bring it to you and say, Hey Greg, would you could you do me a favor?
01:27:55.680 --> 01:27:57.920
If they ever ask, I'll I'll You would do it?
01:27:58.159 --> 01:27:58.479
Sure.
01:27:58.640 --> 01:28:02.000
We are we putting that out here and How about a side hustle?
01:28:03.920 --> 01:28:05.199
Well no, you're too busy for that.
01:28:06.000 --> 01:28:07.520
Even I'm gonna be no no you're too busy, Greg.
01:28:07.760 --> 01:28:13.600
No, uh I'm not too busy, and I do and I do enjoy it, and I and I would I wouldn't take it lightly.
01:28:13.760 --> 01:28:17.199
I would I would say, look, bring it out, let's see what's going on.
01:28:17.359 --> 01:28:26.000
And you know, it's not you can really you can jimmy something up pretty bad if you you know if you make a mistake.
01:28:26.319 --> 01:28:28.479
You worked on that solid snares, right?
01:28:28.560 --> 01:28:30.880
Those that that I helped them, yeah.
01:28:30.960 --> 01:28:43.119
I I went out and helped them assemble uh and uh I actually yeah, I actually helped uh stuff wood in the molds and stuff like that occasionally.
01:28:43.199 --> 01:28:49.279
And they were just at towards the end of things, it was a very skeleton crew.
01:28:50.159 --> 01:28:57.680
Mainly it was just Dave and Sharon and Paul Gabriel and and me when I would go out there.
01:28:58.000 --> 01:29:04.000
Uh and just and and Paul was the guy really kind of doing most of the fabrication work.
01:29:04.159 --> 01:29:06.079
Johnny was gone at the time.
01:29:06.640 --> 01:29:37.199
And uh so it was, you know, you had to put wood in the steamer, then you had to get it out and get it in the molds pretty quickly and let it set in those molds, and then you had to take them and put them in the uh uh pull the moisture out of them, you know, the kiln, I guess you'd say, you know, to so they would hold form, you had to pull the moisture back out of them, and then you know, start inserting a bearing, uh inserting a reinforcing hoop and lathing them down, getting them smooth and round and all that.
01:29:37.439 --> 01:29:39.520
It's a lot labor intensive.
01:29:39.760 --> 01:29:40.880
Yeah, no, and I'm I was curious.
01:29:41.039 --> 01:29:41.920
Do you have any of those?
01:29:42.079 --> 01:29:42.560
Oh, yeah.
01:29:42.720 --> 01:29:42.960
I do.
01:29:43.119 --> 01:29:43.279
All right.
01:29:43.920 --> 01:29:44.720
You have a few?
01:29:44.960 --> 01:29:45.359
I do.
01:29:45.600 --> 01:29:45.920
Yeah.
01:29:46.159 --> 01:29:46.960
Do you use them?
01:29:47.119 --> 01:29:47.600
I do.
01:29:47.920 --> 01:29:48.880
To this day, yeah.
01:29:49.520 --> 01:29:50.159
Nice.
01:29:50.399 --> 01:29:50.800
Yeah.
01:29:50.960 --> 01:29:52.560
Those are they're pretty special drums.
01:29:52.720 --> 01:29:53.039
Oh, yeah.
01:29:53.359 --> 01:29:56.880
I don't know what the value would be on those if you want to put them on eBay, but not bad.
01:29:57.119 --> 01:29:57.680
I don't know.
01:29:57.840 --> 01:29:58.079
Yeah.
01:29:58.239 --> 01:30:00.000
I've no I've never really thought about it.
01:30:00.159 --> 01:30:01.039
You don't sell drums, right?
01:30:01.119 --> 01:30:01.359
You don't?
01:30:01.520 --> 01:30:02.000
I do sometimes.
01:30:02.239 --> 01:30:02.560
Oh, you do?
01:30:02.800 --> 01:30:03.039
Okay.
01:30:03.199 --> 01:30:03.520
Okay.
01:30:03.600 --> 01:30:04.000
Yeah.
01:30:04.239 --> 01:30:04.720
Well, that's right.
01:30:04.800 --> 01:30:07.199
Yeah, Miles McPherson told me you gave him a long time ago.
01:30:07.359 --> 01:30:08.239
His very first kit.
01:30:08.399 --> 01:30:09.359
Yeah, the Rogers.
01:30:09.840 --> 01:30:11.359
Mojave Red Rogers Londoner.
01:30:11.439 --> 01:30:12.159
That's right, that's right.
01:30:12.239 --> 01:30:13.520
So he's still using them again.
01:30:13.600 --> 01:30:14.399
I just so you know.
01:30:14.560 --> 01:30:15.039
No, I know.
01:30:15.279 --> 01:30:15.600
Oh, okay.
01:30:15.920 --> 01:30:16.960
I see Miles pretty regularly.
01:30:17.119 --> 01:30:17.840
You know, hey, okay.
01:30:18.079 --> 01:30:22.880
I was in a band with his dad, with Amy, you know, for a good little while.
01:30:22.960 --> 01:30:26.319
And and his dad's the one that asked me, he said, Do you have a kit?
01:30:26.479 --> 01:30:29.119
Miles is he thinks he wants to play drums.
01:30:29.359 --> 01:30:34.640
I'm like, well, yeah, I've got, you know, I've got this nice little, I think I'd only paid five or six hundred bucks for it.
01:30:34.880 --> 01:30:35.520
It was perfect.
01:30:35.600 --> 01:30:37.840
I mean, it was uh uh in really good shape.
01:30:38.079 --> 01:30:39.119
He's still using it.
01:30:39.199 --> 01:30:39.520
Yeah.
01:30:40.239 --> 01:30:41.119
I mean, hello.
01:30:41.279 --> 01:30:41.439
Yeah.
01:30:41.600 --> 01:30:42.560
That's how good, right?
01:30:42.720 --> 01:30:43.359
Cleveland.
01:30:43.520 --> 01:30:43.680
No.
01:30:43.920 --> 01:30:45.359
No, no, sorry, uh Fullerton.
01:30:45.520 --> 01:30:46.000
Fullerton.
01:30:46.159 --> 01:30:48.079
It was because they're like from 72 or 300.
01:30:48.319 --> 01:30:48.880
That's right, that's right.
01:30:50.239 --> 01:30:50.880
Yes, yes.
01:30:51.119 --> 01:30:52.560
But it was still swivelmatic.
01:30:52.640 --> 01:30:53.439
God, you really know.
01:30:54.159 --> 01:30:54.880
Sorry, it's great.
01:30:54.960 --> 01:30:57.600
It's great to see, like you really know your stuff.
01:30:57.840 --> 01:30:58.560
You really do.
01:30:59.039 --> 01:31:00.560
You know, I've just always loved it.
01:31:00.640 --> 01:31:01.279
Uh you know?
01:31:01.439 --> 01:31:01.760
Yeah.
01:31:01.920 --> 01:31:09.680
I I still I'll sit down sometimes up in my little cave, cave, but up in my studio, and get out some of my old catalog.
01:31:09.920 --> 01:31:14.399
And I I'll this is gonna sound so you're looking at old porn.
01:31:14.640 --> 01:31:15.199
I love it.
01:31:15.359 --> 01:31:18.640
Yeah, but and then I'll I'll I'll smell it.
01:31:18.960 --> 01:31:19.279
Smell it.
01:31:19.439 --> 01:31:26.560
It's like, that's exactly when I took this out of the envelope when it came in the mail, you know, 55 years ago.
01:31:26.720 --> 01:31:28.640
That's exactly how it's I love it.
01:31:28.800 --> 01:31:31.840
You but you know, you're geeking out with the piston, man.
01:31:32.000 --> 01:31:32.319
I love it.
01:31:32.560 --> 01:31:39.520
You can't tell me you haven't taken a Ludwig Tom and gone like that and compressed the heads and smell that burst from the inside.
01:31:39.680 --> 01:31:40.079
Yeah, I mean.
01:31:40.319 --> 01:31:45.439
Of course, and it's very identifiable, as is Rogers, you know, as is Gretz.
01:31:45.520 --> 01:31:49.279
They have a small there's there's a there's a smell.
01:31:49.520 --> 01:31:50.319
Yes, there is.
01:31:50.479 --> 01:31:52.640
It's especially with the Ludwigs, though.
01:31:52.800 --> 01:31:53.680
Yeah, yeah.
01:31:53.760 --> 01:31:55.279
It's fascinating, isn't it?
01:31:55.520 --> 01:31:56.000
It is.
01:31:56.159 --> 01:31:57.439
How are you doing on time, by the way?
01:31:57.520 --> 01:31:59.520
I know you got a I don't even know what time it is.
01:31:59.600 --> 01:32:00.479
It's about 12:15.
01:32:03.279 --> 01:32:05.119
I see, I'm already a day off.
01:32:05.199 --> 01:32:06.399
I think it's Saturday.
01:32:06.640 --> 01:32:06.960
All right.
01:32:08.800 --> 01:32:11.199
And by the way, there's like the Nashville drum show this weekend.
01:32:11.279 --> 01:32:12.399
Do you participate in any of that?
01:32:12.560 --> 01:32:13.439
I went last year, yeah.
01:32:13.680 --> 01:32:14.319
But what about this year?
01:32:15.039 --> 01:32:15.600
I'll probably go, yeah.
01:32:15.840 --> 01:32:16.479
Yeah, just say hi.
01:32:16.800 --> 01:32:19.920
Um, but but just uh just supporting the cause, you know.
01:32:20.000 --> 01:32:22.880
That's a it's not a lot, you know what I mean.
01:32:23.119 --> 01:32:26.079
Uh goes on, like you said, four drummers.
01:32:26.239 --> 01:32:28.319
You know, there's guitar shows here all the time.
01:32:28.560 --> 01:32:30.319
Or you know what I mean?
01:32:30.399 --> 01:32:30.640
Yeah.
01:32:30.800 --> 01:32:33.039
And it's nice to have something like that down here.
01:32:33.279 --> 01:32:33.680
Yeah.
01:32:33.840 --> 01:32:43.199
I I I last year there wasn't a whole lot of vintage stuff there, and I wish it was a little more vintage-based because that's what really yanks my chain.
01:32:43.359 --> 01:32:43.600
Sure.
01:32:44.239 --> 01:32:45.199
But whatever.
01:32:45.359 --> 01:32:48.880
Anybody that bothers to come, you know, I appreciate it.
01:32:49.119 --> 01:32:49.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:32:50.000 --> 01:32:51.680
Do you have a large collection when you said that?
01:32:51.840 --> 01:32:52.800
Do you have Trixons?
01:32:52.880 --> 01:32:54.880
Do you have I I have had Trixons.
01:32:54.960 --> 01:32:55.119
Yeah.
01:32:55.199 --> 01:32:57.439
I had a Trixon kit and a Vox kit.
01:32:58.000 --> 01:33:00.159
Um did you like those conical kicks?
01:33:00.319 --> 01:33:03.439
I love the conicals, but not necessarily to play them.
01:33:03.600 --> 01:33:04.319
I just love the look.
01:33:04.880 --> 01:33:07.520
It's not because someone was telling me, I forget not very blank who like it.
01:33:07.680 --> 01:33:08.560
The engineer loved it.
01:33:08.640 --> 01:33:10.000
Like it comes down to a 16.
01:33:10.079 --> 01:33:10.720
I have to use it.
01:33:11.520 --> 01:33:13.039
And they do you ever try that in the studio?
01:33:13.199 --> 01:33:13.760
You ever use it?
01:33:13.920 --> 01:33:14.800
No, I never took them.
01:33:14.960 --> 01:33:16.800
I don't have the kits anymore.
01:33:16.960 --> 01:33:24.239
I I uh you know, those tricksigns had those little bakelite pedestals that the lugs mounted on.
01:33:24.800 --> 01:33:28.880
And when they start disintegrating, I just couldn't bear it.
01:33:29.039 --> 01:33:37.920
It's like this is gonna be an ongoing battle, and if someone wants these, I'm gonna move them on to someone who can fight that battle because I can't.
01:33:38.399 --> 01:33:48.000
And now, with the advent of 3D printing, it's like I could probably take one of these pedestals and have a thousand of them 3D printed.
01:33:48.640 --> 01:33:49.439
Interesting point.
01:33:49.760 --> 01:33:50.800
Interesting point.
01:33:51.039 --> 01:33:52.880
Uh, and someone should.
01:33:53.119 --> 01:33:56.319
It's like, because I can't imagine there's not a market for them.
01:33:56.479 --> 01:33:56.720
Yeah.
01:33:56.960 --> 01:33:58.720
Many of those kits that are out there.
01:33:59.039 --> 01:34:03.760
But uh, to answer your question, I I mean I do have a collection.
01:34:04.079 --> 01:34:12.159
I it's not anywhere well, it's not as large as it was, and it's certainly not as large as hardcore collectors.
01:34:12.239 --> 01:34:15.920
You know, Bunny probably has one of the most massive collections.
01:34:16.399 --> 01:34:17.119
Have you ever been there?
01:34:17.760 --> 01:34:19.439
I've never been to his barn, no.
01:34:19.600 --> 01:34:24.800
But I I I know him, and and uh he's a big Bobby Graham guy.
01:34:24.960 --> 01:34:25.840
He loves Bobby Graham.
01:34:26.079 --> 01:34:26.720
Of course, yeah.
01:34:27.119 --> 01:34:28.399
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:34:28.640 --> 01:34:40.880
I mean, do have you um have you ever reached out to a a younger drummer, like you've heard a guy or something like that, and you just went out, you went out of your way just to go find them and say, hey man.
01:34:41.359 --> 01:34:42.159
I I have.
01:34:42.319 --> 01:34:42.560
Yeah.
01:34:42.720 --> 01:34:50.319
I uh you know, when I when I have been exposed to someone or witness them doing something, and I thought, oh yeah, that's the thing.
01:34:51.119 --> 01:34:52.399
I I tell 'em.
01:34:52.640 --> 01:34:53.039
Mm-hmm.
01:34:54.000 --> 01:34:55.439
It must mean in the world.
01:34:55.840 --> 01:35:01.520
I don't know what it means, but I it's something I feel like I should do.
01:35:01.680 --> 01:35:05.760
Because there there were people in you know in my youth that did that for me.
01:35:06.159 --> 01:35:08.479
You know, it's just encouragement.
01:35:08.560 --> 01:35:10.079
There's nothing hurts about that.
01:35:10.319 --> 01:35:11.439
No, are you kidding me?
01:35:11.520 --> 01:35:14.399
Especially coming from someone so well respected.
01:35:14.560 --> 01:35:18.239
Yeah, well, that's that's a hard thing for me to accept.
01:35:18.720 --> 01:35:21.039
In my mind, I'm still 23 and trying.
01:35:21.520 --> 01:35:28.479
Well, that's why I asked you about the whole, like, it's like I said, it's imposter syndrome, this idea like, oh, they're gonna find out, oh, I don't belong here.
01:35:28.560 --> 01:35:37.520
Like you you still can struggle with some not so much that, but I still have it's just that mind thing.
01:35:37.600 --> 01:35:41.119
I still think about things like I did all those years ago.
01:35:41.359 --> 01:35:51.520
Uh and I still approach things like that with that level of excitement, and you know, at least my perception is that I do that.
01:35:51.760 --> 01:35:54.000
Uh, because it is exciting and it's fun.
01:35:54.319 --> 01:35:55.359
Did it ever get boring?
01:35:55.439 --> 01:35:56.079
Did it ever get boring?
01:35:56.399 --> 01:35:58.640
Did you ever go through a period of like, I'm tired of this?
01:35:58.880 --> 01:35:59.119
No.
01:35:59.279 --> 01:35:59.520
Yeah.
01:35:59.760 --> 01:36:00.159
Never.
01:36:00.319 --> 01:36:00.960
Yeah.
01:36:01.520 --> 01:36:03.760
I mean, what's to not like?
01:36:04.720 --> 01:36:05.279
You can't.
01:36:05.439 --> 01:36:10.000
I said, my wife, my wife quotes me on this because it made her laugh one time.
01:36:10.239 --> 01:36:13.119
She said, she told me when I get going to work.
01:36:13.439 --> 01:36:15.279
Said, have a good day, honey.
01:36:15.520 --> 01:36:18.399
I said, hey, I count to four and then I hit something.
01:36:18.560 --> 01:36:20.079
What could go wrong?
01:36:20.880 --> 01:36:23.600
And she laughs about that to this day.
01:36:23.920 --> 01:36:25.680
She'll quote that at me.
01:36:25.920 --> 01:36:27.600
And it that's my attitude.
01:36:27.840 --> 01:36:28.159
Yeah.
01:36:28.399 --> 01:36:28.640
You know.
01:36:29.119 --> 01:36:30.000
But it's back to that.
01:36:30.159 --> 01:36:31.439
You've had this attitude.
01:36:31.600 --> 01:36:33.199
Your whole it's who you are.
01:36:33.760 --> 01:36:34.880
I guess it is.
01:36:35.199 --> 01:36:36.399
Too late to change now.
01:36:36.560 --> 01:36:42.319
Well, I mean, you notice that you you know, I asked what makes a good producer, what makes a good uh session guy.
01:36:47.520 --> 01:36:50.640
That's that's that there's multiple levels to that.
01:36:50.880 --> 01:36:52.640
Temperament is a big thing.
01:36:53.600 --> 01:36:56.560
It's as b as big a thing as talent.
01:36:57.039 --> 01:36:58.079
Temperament is.
01:36:58.399 --> 01:37:02.000
Because if if people can't get along with you, it's over.
01:37:02.800 --> 01:37:08.399
You know, if if you can't play well with others, it ain't gonna happen.
01:37:08.640 --> 01:37:15.199
I I mean, I've never seen it really happen, you know, like that.
01:37:15.840 --> 01:37:24.079
And I have seen people that came in, you know, bla guns ablazing and really doing great.
01:37:24.239 --> 01:37:27.439
And next thing you know, you know you're not seeing them anymore.
01:37:27.920 --> 01:37:34.560
You know, and you go, I wonder why you just you know rub some guys couldn't get along with him, you know.
01:37:35.199 --> 01:37:37.520
And you didn't personally see it, but that's what you heard.
01:37:37.600 --> 01:37:37.760
Yeah.
01:37:37.920 --> 01:37:39.359
Because you were like, that guy was great.
01:37:39.600 --> 01:37:39.920
Yeah.
01:37:40.079 --> 01:37:40.720
Yeah.
01:37:41.840 --> 01:37:43.279
And that's pretty rare.
01:37:43.520 --> 01:37:48.960
You know, if you've if you've gotten there, you kind of know why.
01:37:49.680 --> 01:37:51.359
You better know why.
01:37:51.680 --> 01:37:56.000
But but temperament and talent, you know, really.
01:37:56.399 --> 01:37:59.600
Um and I guess along with temperament comes patience.
01:37:59.760 --> 01:38:06.560
You know, sometimes you just have to just sit there and be quiet and let someone figure something out, you know.
01:38:07.199 --> 01:38:11.119
Um and don't don't noodle around, you know.
01:38:11.520 --> 01:38:20.640
Don't don't be out there when people are trying to get something done, showing them the new, you know, your version of how to play the crunge or something like that.
01:38:20.800 --> 01:38:21.439
Yeah.
01:38:23.439 --> 01:38:24.239
Perfect example.
01:38:24.479 --> 01:38:24.960
You know what I mean?
01:38:25.199 --> 01:38:25.840
Perfect, yeah.
01:38:26.000 --> 01:38:29.600
So yeah, just put the sticks down and yes, absolutely.
01:38:29.840 --> 01:38:30.239
How about that?
01:38:30.319 --> 01:38:37.760
Just say you know, my big thing, my pet thing, and I'd I started doing this out of out of truly out of concern.
01:38:38.239 --> 01:38:45.279
Uh and but but I can't tell you how many second engineers have just have thanked me.
01:38:45.520 --> 01:38:52.079
When anytime one of them comes out on the studio, if I'm getting sounds, when they come out, I stop.
01:38:52.560 --> 01:38:52.880
Right.
01:38:53.039 --> 01:38:54.239
I just stop playing.
01:38:54.479 --> 01:38:56.319
Because they're there to adjust something.
01:38:56.479 --> 01:38:59.760
They don't need me pounding the snare drum in their ear.
01:38:59.920 --> 01:39:02.159
I'll just let them adjust it and then I'll start playing again.
01:39:02.399 --> 01:39:03.279
When they close the door.
01:39:03.359 --> 01:39:03.520
Yeah.
01:39:04.079 --> 01:39:04.479
Yeah.
01:39:04.880 --> 01:39:17.199
Or even even other guys, even the other players on the session, if I'm getting sounds when when they're coming in with their guitars and stuff like that, I'll stop and say, hey, you want to grab some phones and put them on?
01:39:17.279 --> 01:39:19.760
You know, I don't want to hear this any more than you do.
01:39:20.079 --> 01:39:20.319
You know.
01:39:20.640 --> 01:39:22.399
Well, do you use protection?
01:39:22.640 --> 01:39:25.039
No, I just use regular closed earheads.
01:39:25.199 --> 01:39:32.319
Oh, I I meant condoms, but for you don't you don't use it.
01:39:32.479 --> 01:39:34.159
You don't use uh ear protection.
01:39:34.399 --> 01:39:34.720
No.
01:39:35.039 --> 01:39:35.199
Okay.
01:39:35.439 --> 01:39:36.479
No, I was just curious.
01:39:36.640 --> 01:39:39.119
I mean, so you're not cranking it in the in the headphones.
01:39:40.000 --> 01:39:41.439
Can get it.
01:39:41.600 --> 01:39:42.640
Do you have any hearing loss?
01:39:43.359 --> 01:39:44.239
I'm sure I do, yeah.
01:39:44.880 --> 01:39:46.800
I'm sure I mean uh you know.
01:39:47.039 --> 01:39:48.000
Well, do you have ringing?
01:39:48.079 --> 01:39:50.000
Do you have constant or I have some tonight?
01:39:50.560 --> 01:39:51.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:39:51.119 --> 01:39:52.720
I guess we all have that, yeah.
01:39:53.600 --> 01:39:53.920
Yeah.
01:39:54.239 --> 01:39:58.319
I've been sitting two feet above a snare drum since I was seven years old.
01:39:58.479 --> 01:39:59.760
That's a lot of impact.
01:40:00.000 --> 01:40:02.239
You just never thought about getting like that.
01:40:03.439 --> 01:40:05.039
Probably not until it was way too late.
01:40:05.279 --> 01:40:07.359
So even when you're doing live stuff, you're not wearing.
01:40:08.079 --> 01:40:16.000
Um if I'm not using in-air monitoring, uh I'm not wearing any protection.
01:40:16.560 --> 01:40:26.399
But but I but also I don't like when I was out with Seeger, uh, I didn't wear I didn't I didn't we didn't I didn't use ear in ears.
01:40:26.640 --> 01:40:27.199
Right, right.
01:40:27.439 --> 01:40:34.000
And and uh but also I mean I really didn't get any drums in the monitors.
01:40:34.079 --> 01:40:35.199
I'm sitting right above the kit.
01:40:35.359 --> 01:40:47.199
I don't really I hear them, oh fine, you know, so I would just get in the monitors literally the the minimum I needed from everybody else just to have kind of a blend.
01:40:47.520 --> 01:41:02.239
You know, I I never you know you see guys that have big folded horn cabinets and you know big stacks behind them uh for their monitors and then a wedge here and a wedge here, and and that, you know, it's like nah, I don't do that.
01:41:02.399 --> 01:41:12.399
Uh occasionally, especially if I'm using in airs, I'll I'll ask for a sub just to just to give it that presence, you know, just to give it a little bit of that low-end thump.
01:41:12.720 --> 01:41:12.960
Feel it.
01:41:13.119 --> 01:41:14.399
Yeah, just to feel it a little bit.
01:41:14.479 --> 01:41:14.640
Yeah.
01:41:14.800 --> 01:41:16.560
It's not and it's not very loud.
01:41:16.720 --> 01:41:18.239
It's just a physical thing.
01:41:18.720 --> 01:41:24.560
But I I can't, I don't like those uh things you attach to the throne thumper?
01:41:24.720 --> 01:41:26.000
Yeah, whatever they are.
01:41:26.159 --> 01:41:29.359
I I've never really I've never really taken to those.
01:41:30.640 --> 01:41:31.199
I got you.
01:41:31.439 --> 01:41:40.399
Have there been gigs that you you couldn't do just scheduling something something like that, you know, that you you still think of and go, damn, I would have made me a tour, that kind of thing.
01:41:40.640 --> 01:41:41.920
It's mainly records.
01:41:42.079 --> 01:41:42.479
Yeah.
01:41:42.640 --> 01:42:03.199
I I um yeah, I uh um Jay Joyce's office called me uh a little while back to ask me about some dates for uh a new female artist he was gonna work on, which I think turned out to be Laney Wilson.
01:42:04.079 --> 01:42:07.119
And I was gonna be in Europe at the time with Bonhomasa.
01:42:07.680 --> 01:42:11.600
And I'm like, you know, damn it.
01:42:12.079 --> 01:42:13.039
It still gets you.
01:42:13.359 --> 01:42:20.960
Well, it does because you know, he he everybody speaks so highly of him and and and how he is to work with.
01:42:21.359 --> 01:42:24.239
And uh and I've never gotten to do that.
01:42:24.560 --> 01:42:27.680
You know, it would it would have been the first time I'd ever gotten to work with him.
01:42:28.000 --> 01:42:28.319
I see.
01:42:28.479 --> 01:42:34.720
And uh, and I I really hate missing that, having missed that, you know, that opportunity to do that.
01:42:35.039 --> 01:42:35.359
You know.
01:42:36.560 --> 01:42:37.359
That's the most recent one.
01:42:37.520 --> 01:42:38.000
Yeah, I got you.
01:42:38.159 --> 01:42:40.720
Who are some of the most memorable producers you work with?
01:42:41.279 --> 01:42:42.079
Oh gosh.
01:42:42.319 --> 01:42:43.600
Norbert Putnam.
01:42:45.279 --> 01:42:50.960
Not often you get in the studio with, you know, a guy once removed from Elvis.
01:42:52.399 --> 01:42:56.720
And and, you know, uh an originator of the Muscles thing.
01:42:56.800 --> 01:42:58.159
Norbert is amazing.
01:42:58.560 --> 01:42:59.600
He's just amazing.
01:43:00.079 --> 01:43:01.680
Are you are you asking questions?
01:43:01.920 --> 01:43:04.880
Are you I just let him talk.
01:43:05.520 --> 01:43:06.960
He's very open.
01:43:07.920 --> 01:43:09.279
You know, he's very open.
01:43:09.840 --> 01:43:10.560
He tells good stories?
01:43:10.720 --> 01:43:11.840
Yeah, he tells great stories.
01:43:12.000 --> 01:43:14.000
He's he's got a good book that you should get.
01:43:14.319 --> 01:43:15.199
Oh, okay, yeah, yeah.
01:43:15.359 --> 01:43:16.399
And he's a great guy.
01:43:16.560 --> 01:43:17.600
He's just a great guy.
01:43:17.760 --> 01:43:23.520
He he's very formidable in my uh decision to move up here.
01:43:25.039 --> 01:43:26.880
Did you ever consider going to LA?
01:43:27.199 --> 01:43:27.520
No.
01:43:27.840 --> 01:43:28.159
Yeah.
01:43:28.479 --> 01:43:32.880
No, uh, just I wouldn't affit, you know, lifestyle-wise.
01:43:32.960 --> 01:43:34.560
I just I'm not a fit for that.
01:43:34.800 --> 01:43:37.119
You I mean, obviously, because you've spent time there, you've done it.
01:43:37.279 --> 01:43:37.520
Oh, yeah.
01:43:37.840 --> 01:43:39.039
And you've done studio stuff there.
01:43:39.199 --> 01:43:40.319
Uh a a handful.
01:43:40.399 --> 01:43:40.640
Uh-huh.
01:43:40.800 --> 01:43:53.039
There was a guy, uh, a guy named Ralph Shucket, uh, another great guy, and sadly he's he's passed now, but he was in the original Utopia band, you know, the three-keyboard player Utopia band.
01:43:53.199 --> 01:43:55.039
He was one of the three keyboard players.
01:43:55.359 --> 01:44:00.560
And um, somehow or another, I really don't know how it happened, but he called me one day.
01:44:00.800 --> 01:44:08.079
This is when I still lived in Memphis, and and he wanted me to come out and play on a Belinda Carlisle thing he was doing.
01:44:08.319 --> 01:44:10.960
So I I packed up my crap.
01:44:11.039 --> 01:44:22.640
I literally, I mean, I packed up my drums and I took them to air freight at to the airport and shipped them out there, and uh, and went, and and God, it was such a great experience.
01:44:22.880 --> 01:44:26.960
Um, I met Rick Defons over there, who was in a band called the A's.
01:44:27.439 --> 01:44:28.000
Great guy.
01:44:28.079 --> 01:44:29.680
We hit it off immediately.
01:44:29.920 --> 01:44:36.560
And uh, and we were cutting at American Recording, which was Bill Cooper and Richie Pottler.
01:44:37.199 --> 01:44:42.079
And when I was coming up, you know, we never did finish the guys who were important to me.
01:44:42.239 --> 01:44:48.800
Well, Jerry Edmonton and Floyd Sneed from Steppenwolf and Three Dog Night were hugely important to me.
01:44:48.960 --> 01:44:49.359
Right.
01:44:49.520 --> 01:44:50.800
And that's where they worked.
01:44:51.039 --> 01:44:51.840
Floyd Sneed.
01:44:52.079 --> 01:44:54.000
Was American recording.
01:44:54.159 --> 01:44:59.680
So I got to just bend Bill Cooper's ear constantly about them.
01:44:59.840 --> 01:45:04.159
And while I was out there, he called Floyd and had him come by the studio.
01:45:04.399 --> 01:45:05.359
You got to meet Floyd.
01:45:05.439 --> 01:45:20.800
I it was the second time I met him because they had they they had three dog three Dog Night had reunited in the very early 80s for a minute, and they did a tour and they came to Memphis, and and he came to the drum shop I was working at, and I'm like, dude, I cannot believe you're here.
01:45:20.960 --> 01:45:22.159
I just can't believe it.
01:45:22.399 --> 01:45:29.279
And you know, he was very gracious, and and this was so pretentious of us.
01:45:29.840 --> 01:45:39.279
At the time, he was playing, I think, one of those Slingerland cutaway kits.
01:45:39.520 --> 01:45:40.800
You know what I'm talking about?
01:45:41.119 --> 01:45:41.760
Cutaway.
01:45:41.920 --> 01:45:47.199
Yeah, it was it was their version of the Oh, the radial, the North thing?
01:45:47.439 --> 01:45:48.640
It was their version of that.
01:45:48.800 --> 01:45:54.000
What they did was they just literally cut the cut out the front the front of the shell.
01:45:54.159 --> 01:45:55.600
Yes, I do remember now.
01:45:55.920 --> 01:46:01.199
He was playing a set of those that he had gotten when he was playing with the Ohio players for a minute.
01:46:01.520 --> 01:46:04.479
So we're like, dude, you know.
01:46:04.960 --> 01:46:10.479
We took him uh uh a pearl uh fiberglass?
01:46:10.720 --> 01:46:11.520
No, no, no, no.
01:46:11.600 --> 01:46:19.039
This is this was when they were they had just come out with the great Keller USA-made pearl, like the doobies were playing at the time.
01:46:19.199 --> 01:46:25.439
Oh I mean the eight-ply keller shell made here in Nashville, you know, the whole shooting match.
01:46:25.520 --> 01:46:35.199
And we took him uh basically his classic set, you know, two two base rooms, four mounted, two floors, and took them down to the orphan and set them up for him.
01:46:35.439 --> 01:46:36.880
He used that kit that night.
01:46:37.119 --> 01:46:37.760
It was great.
01:46:38.000 --> 01:46:39.920
Like you can't be using these other ones now, like no.
01:46:40.079 --> 01:46:40.399
What?
01:46:40.560 --> 01:46:45.199
You were saying like you can't use these other ones, like, no, man, just no, wrong.
01:46:45.439 --> 01:46:48.239
Well, I don't think we I don't think we immediately went there.
01:46:48.319 --> 01:46:52.079
I think he was he he was showing he really was taken with that kit.
01:46:52.159 --> 01:46:55.359
We had it in the window or something, and he was really liked it.
01:46:55.520 --> 01:46:55.760
Right.
01:46:55.920 --> 01:46:59.760
And I and I and I think we just hey will you want to play it tonight?
01:47:00.000 --> 01:47:02.960
You know, because we knew what he was playing.
01:47:03.439 --> 01:47:04.159
No, that's what I meant.
01:47:04.960 --> 01:47:08.399
You knew what those those uh cut out, and you were thinking, no, man.
01:47:08.560 --> 01:47:10.800
That's yeah, we weren't verbalizing that to him.
01:47:10.960 --> 01:47:14.880
But the opportunity arose where we could say, hey, well, you want to play him right now?
01:47:15.119 --> 01:47:15.760
Bring them down, man.
01:47:15.840 --> 01:47:16.560
Let us help you.
01:47:16.720 --> 01:47:17.199
Yeah, yeah.
01:47:17.359 --> 01:47:22.159
Hey, we it would be our pleasure to for you to play this tonight, because just we love you, you know.
01:47:22.399 --> 01:47:23.920
And he was great.
01:47:24.239 --> 01:47:24.560
Yeah.
01:47:24.880 --> 01:47:27.520
Anyway, uh, what were we talking about before that?
01:47:27.840 --> 01:47:33.039
Um man, I mean I told you I'm very scattered.
01:47:33.279 --> 01:47:35.840
And you said you're very we're a very scattered gentleman.
01:47:36.239 --> 01:47:36.960
On the rabbit trail.
01:47:37.119 --> 01:47:38.319
Well, you're a scattered gentleman.
01:47:38.399 --> 01:47:39.439
I'm just a scattered guy.
01:47:39.520 --> 01:47:40.960
I mean, I am all over the place.
01:47:41.039 --> 01:47:42.239
I know, believe me.
01:47:42.720 --> 01:47:50.000
Um so oh, we did ask you though, so no tours that I don't think you had to say no to.
01:47:50.319 --> 01:47:57.279
Yeah, I don't think there's ever been something like that that was offered that I couldn't that I couldn't do.
01:47:57.359 --> 01:48:07.600
It's it's all been having to miss a session or a recording that would have been great, but you know, you're if you're if you're booked already, yeah, you know, there's nothing you can do really.
01:48:07.840 --> 01:48:09.520
But what would be a dream gig?
01:48:09.680 --> 01:48:11.920
Let's let's just I'm just focusing on touring.
01:48:12.000 --> 01:48:15.359
Because I mean the session stuff, you know, I know stuff can come up in the meantime.
01:48:15.600 --> 01:48:17.039
Ah! Just touring.
01:48:17.760 --> 01:48:19.039
Let's put it out into the universe.
01:48:19.119 --> 01:48:20.000
Seriously, I mean it.
01:48:20.079 --> 01:48:21.439
Like you're putting it out today.
01:48:21.680 --> 01:48:23.920
Who who what call would you love to get?
01:48:24.159 --> 01:48:29.439
Oh, that's but see, now you're asking me to say stuff that people are gonna go, he's insane.
01:48:29.600 --> 01:48:31.199
That would never in a million years happen.
01:48:31.359 --> 01:48:31.840
Go ahead.
01:48:32.000 --> 01:48:33.039
Let's do it.
01:48:35.359 --> 01:48:40.159
I would love to at least take a shot at playing with the stones.
01:48:40.399 --> 01:48:43.920
I kind of was gonna go there with you and say, would you have liked to get that call?
01:48:44.000 --> 01:48:44.479
There you go.
01:48:44.720 --> 01:48:47.920
Just because Chuck Lavelle's an old friend of mine.
01:48:48.079 --> 01:48:49.279
He's an old friend.
01:48:49.439 --> 01:49:03.520
And I I saw Charlie on his last tour, and and and and one of our Seager techs was teching for him, and you know, I got to go back and stand behind the kit and see the Keith Moon stick bag and all that stuff.
01:49:04.000 --> 01:49:05.600
Did you get to hit anything or no?
01:49:05.680 --> 01:49:06.000
Uh uh.
01:49:06.800 --> 01:49:15.600
And you know, it's just you know, friends will say stuff in passing, and and and I've had a couple of friends lately saying, Man, man, the stones should call you.
01:49:15.680 --> 01:49:16.640
They should just call you.
01:49:16.720 --> 01:49:16.880
Yeah.
01:49:17.039 --> 01:49:18.800
And I'm like, dude, come on.
01:49:18.960 --> 01:49:21.199
That that's not in a million years.
01:49:21.359 --> 01:49:23.039
That's not, you know.
01:49:23.680 --> 01:49:26.319
Well it's not that I'm even on their radar.
01:49:26.399 --> 01:49:29.439
It's not, I'm not even on the planet, you know.
01:49:29.680 --> 01:49:31.920
So Well, we put it out into the universe.
01:49:32.000 --> 01:49:33.279
You do see what we just did?
01:49:33.520 --> 01:49:34.319
That's what we just did.
01:49:34.560 --> 01:49:35.039
But that's it.
01:49:35.119 --> 01:49:36.560
That would be the one I get it, man.
01:49:36.640 --> 01:49:37.199
That's a good choice.
01:49:37.840 --> 01:49:41.600
I would be so fired immediately because I'd say, okay, we're playing satisfaction like this.
01:49:50.560 --> 01:49:51.760
It's gotta be that.
01:49:51.840 --> 01:49:52.720
That's the way to do it.
01:49:52.960 --> 01:49:54.640
Well, yeah, that's you know.
01:49:56.079 --> 01:49:58.159
They've never played it any better than that.
01:49:58.319 --> 01:49:58.960
No, I guess not.
01:49:59.119 --> 01:49:59.760
That makes the stuff.
01:50:00.479 --> 01:50:06.159
It's that pounding, you know, that song needs that.
01:50:06.479 --> 01:50:09.119
And I guess it's also with the tambourine on top of it, right?
01:50:09.279 --> 01:50:11.039
Dun dun dun dun dun dun.
01:50:11.119 --> 01:50:11.359
Yeah.
01:50:11.439 --> 01:50:11.680
Yeah.
01:50:12.239 --> 01:50:13.600
Yeah, that's vital.
01:50:13.840 --> 01:50:14.239
Yeah.
01:50:14.479 --> 01:50:15.119
Yeah.
01:50:15.439 --> 01:50:16.479
So wait a minute.
01:50:16.640 --> 01:50:18.079
Um that's it.
01:50:18.159 --> 01:50:21.039
No, that's a great pick, by what did you get to meet Charlie Watts when you did that?
01:50:21.199 --> 01:50:22.079
I did not get to meet him.
01:50:22.319 --> 01:50:22.479
Okay.
01:50:23.680 --> 01:50:24.000
Okay.
01:50:24.159 --> 01:50:24.479
Yeah.
01:50:24.880 --> 01:50:26.800
Some things you just don't ask.
01:50:27.039 --> 01:50:28.159
Maybe it's better.
01:50:28.319 --> 01:50:28.800
I don't know.
01:50:29.039 --> 01:50:30.239
Well, no, he's a nice guy.
01:50:30.640 --> 01:50:31.600
He wouldn't have been a bastard.
01:50:32.960 --> 01:50:35.439
Well, it's not even a matter of thinking that.
01:50:35.840 --> 01:50:37.600
It's just a matter of, you know what, man?
01:50:38.000 --> 01:50:43.760
He's he's earned the respect of just to be here and not be bothered.
01:50:44.079 --> 01:50:50.640
Let the man just I love how you're a bother, yeah.
01:50:50.960 --> 01:50:52.000
You have a pair of sticks.
01:50:52.159 --> 01:50:53.279
I did get a pair of sticks.
01:50:53.439 --> 01:50:53.840
Good, good.
01:50:54.000 --> 01:50:54.239
Yeah.
01:50:54.560 --> 01:50:56.239
From from uh from his tech.
01:50:56.560 --> 01:50:56.800
Yeah.
01:50:57.359 --> 01:50:58.399
He was a sweet guy.
01:50:58.560 --> 01:50:59.199
Yeah.
01:51:00.560 --> 01:51:04.720
And I appreciate that he let me come up there and get that close to that kit.
01:51:05.359 --> 01:51:05.600
Yeah.
01:51:05.760 --> 01:51:06.479
Oh my gosh.
01:51:06.560 --> 01:51:06.800
You know.
01:51:07.039 --> 01:51:12.800
Conversely, you've had guys, artist bands, ask you to go on tour and you've just been like, nah, I can't do it.
01:51:13.119 --> 01:51:13.840
I can't do it.
01:51:15.039 --> 01:51:20.399
You know, I'm I don't Yeah, just very, very rarely.
01:51:20.880 --> 01:51:21.840
Very rarely.
01:51:22.640 --> 01:51:25.840
And mainly a good a good number of years ago.
01:51:26.640 --> 01:51:30.000
Um it's not that often.
01:51:30.479 --> 01:51:37.520
And and not you remember a band called Raging Slab?
01:51:37.920 --> 01:51:38.880
Yes, I do.
01:51:39.439 --> 01:51:41.520
That guy called me one time.
01:51:42.239 --> 01:51:44.399
Uh and he was very he was really nice.
01:51:44.640 --> 01:51:45.760
Really nice guy.
01:51:46.000 --> 01:51:49.039
And and but he was, you know, he needed someone to go out.
01:51:49.199 --> 01:51:53.760
And at the time, um, I didn't know a whole lot about him.
01:51:54.159 --> 01:51:57.600
Uh uh, but I was playing some pretty heavy stuff at the time.
01:51:57.840 --> 01:52:11.199
So I think I could have done it, but but I it may have been m my daughter was so young that I didn't feel like it was kind of time to be traveling a bunch at the time.
01:52:11.760 --> 01:52:12.319
You know?
01:52:12.960 --> 01:52:14.640
So I didn't do that.
01:52:14.880 --> 01:52:17.039
That would have been an interesting fit.
01:52:17.359 --> 01:52:20.960
I guess it would have, yeah, because they're hardcore northeast, I think.
01:52:21.119 --> 01:52:21.520
Yeah.
01:52:21.760 --> 01:52:22.159
You know?
01:52:22.399 --> 01:52:22.640
Yeah.
01:52:22.800 --> 01:52:24.399
But look at you, you were game.
01:52:24.560 --> 01:52:25.119
I like that.
01:52:25.520 --> 01:52:27.920
Back to that, you're like, you're just you're pretty much game for anything.
01:52:28.319 --> 01:52:37.119
Well, yeah, I mean, just beyond something that philosophically I just I couldn't relate to, or you know, yeah.
01:52:37.359 --> 01:52:42.319
Something that was just too dark, you know, too spiritually dark.
01:52:42.479 --> 01:52:42.720
Yeah.
01:52:42.880 --> 01:52:44.159
And there are those things, you know.
01:52:44.720 --> 01:52:46.239
Yeah, I'm not naive.
01:52:46.479 --> 01:52:54.079
You know, there are those things out there that and those people are just coming from a a different place that I don't understand, and I really don't want to.
01:52:54.720 --> 01:52:57.119
You know, it it it's that's their choice.
01:52:57.600 --> 01:53:03.520
They have freedom of choice, they have free will, you know, and and that's okay, you know.
01:53:03.760 --> 01:53:05.119
Do you do you practice?
01:53:08.000 --> 01:53:08.319
No.
01:53:09.039 --> 01:53:10.000
It's okay.
01:53:10.960 --> 01:53:13.600
But I mean, I I play a lot.
01:53:13.920 --> 01:53:14.800
I know you do.
01:53:15.039 --> 01:53:20.800
So, you know, um I was curious more if there's things like do you ever are you working on things?
01:53:21.199 --> 01:53:22.239
It's okay if you're not.
01:53:22.399 --> 01:53:23.920
I like your honesty if you're not.
01:53:24.159 --> 01:53:25.119
Just curious.
01:53:26.880 --> 01:53:28.000
I I would.
01:53:28.560 --> 01:53:39.199
If I if something ever came to mind that I wanted to try and then I realized I couldn't do it, I would I would work on it until I could.
01:53:40.159 --> 01:53:40.720
You know?
01:53:41.600 --> 01:53:44.159
But is there one thing you wish you could do?
01:53:44.319 --> 01:53:49.039
Like is I wish I could do clean single strokes like Buddy Rich.
01:53:49.359 --> 01:53:49.680
Something.
01:53:49.760 --> 01:53:50.159
I don't know.
01:53:50.319 --> 01:53:56.640
I'm just in context to just kind of what my bag is, no.
01:53:56.800 --> 01:53:57.119
Okay.
01:53:59.119 --> 01:54:06.399
You know, I mean, I'm uh I'm comfortable with what I offer, you know, and I'm confident with what I offer.
01:54:06.720 --> 01:54:09.359
And I offer it because that's my outlook.
01:54:09.520 --> 01:54:22.800
That's m that's just the way I see things and enjoy things, and I just I always just wanted to play the songs I liked and just play them right, you know.
01:54:23.600 --> 01:54:26.720
Uh so When's the last time you took a drum solo?
01:54:28.239 --> 01:54:31.039
Eight bars last night with another drummer.
01:54:31.600 --> 01:54:32.479
Just last night.
01:54:32.640 --> 01:54:33.279
I love it.
01:54:33.520 --> 01:54:35.039
But before that?
01:54:35.359 --> 01:54:41.439
Never before I literally asked me that question the day after you did one.
01:54:41.600 --> 01:54:41.920
Yeah, well.
01:54:43.119 --> 01:54:47.359
It was in Elizabeth Reed, so there's that eight bar drum break at the end of Elizabeth Reed.
01:54:47.439 --> 01:54:47.760
Right.
01:54:47.920 --> 01:54:51.520
And and so, you know, it was basically us just clowning around for eight bars.
01:54:52.079 --> 01:54:54.640
But other than that, it's just a non-factor.
01:54:54.960 --> 01:54:59.439
No, no, I'm sure this is I've like this because I've been I know that feeling where you think and you go, no, no, thanks.
01:54:59.520 --> 01:55:01.039
I just have you do they do that too?
01:55:01.119 --> 01:55:03.600
Do they look at you like your turn and you're like, no?
01:55:06.880 --> 01:55:12.079
If Joe Bottomassa said, I really I want I want you to do a drum solo, would you just say like I'd rather not?
01:55:12.159 --> 01:55:13.039
Is that would that be your first?
01:55:13.439 --> 01:55:21.439
I think I told him before I ever played, really played with them, with him in earnest.
01:55:21.600 --> 01:55:23.520
In other words, like for a tour.
01:55:23.600 --> 01:55:25.279
I said, I dude, I just don't solo.
01:55:25.760 --> 01:55:27.920
And he was like, Man, I'm so fine with that.
01:55:28.000 --> 01:55:29.039
That you know, that's okay.
01:55:29.279 --> 01:55:29.920
I love that.
01:55:30.319 --> 01:55:32.079
So that's an upfront thing, just so you know.
01:55:32.720 --> 01:55:38.960
Yeah, because I I you know, I don't want I don't want to leave him hanging, and I don't want him to hang me.
01:55:40.479 --> 01:55:41.600
Him in general terms.
01:55:41.840 --> 01:55:42.479
Yes, yes.
01:55:42.560 --> 01:55:43.119
Oh, I get it.
01:55:43.279 --> 01:55:43.840
You know what I'm saying?
01:55:44.159 --> 01:55:44.560
I love it.
01:55:44.640 --> 01:55:45.359
You don't solo.
01:55:45.600 --> 01:55:50.000
I just don't find anything engaging in it to me.
01:55:50.479 --> 01:55:53.600
I don't play drums, I play music.
01:55:54.319 --> 01:55:55.600
You know, I play songs.
01:55:55.760 --> 01:55:56.960
That's what I do.
01:56:00.319 --> 01:56:03.520
The other thing doesn't it just doesn't hold any.
01:56:04.079 --> 01:56:05.119
I don't know.
01:56:05.439 --> 01:56:06.239
I don't know.
01:56:06.479 --> 01:56:07.279
I'm with you.
01:56:07.520 --> 01:56:11.119
I just it's just never been in my vocabulary.
01:56:11.359 --> 01:56:12.079
It doesn't turn you on.
01:56:12.399 --> 01:56:14.079
Even if someone says, hey, went watch this guy.
01:56:14.159 --> 01:56:15.039
It's like, yeah, good.
01:56:15.199 --> 01:56:15.520
Great.
01:56:15.760 --> 01:56:16.079
No.
01:56:16.239 --> 01:56:16.720
Mm-hmm.
01:56:17.600 --> 01:56:18.800
Do you like Vinny?
01:56:19.359 --> 01:56:19.840
Caluda?
01:56:20.159 --> 01:56:20.239
Yeah.
01:56:20.399 --> 01:56:20.800
He's an amazing.
01:56:21.119 --> 01:56:21.600
That's what I'm saying.
01:56:21.680 --> 01:56:24.800
So you can watch that stuff and be like, wow, just wow, but that's it, right?
01:56:24.880 --> 01:56:26.720
It's like, yeah, I don't want to do that.
01:56:27.199 --> 01:56:29.439
I Yeah, because it's yeah.
01:56:29.680 --> 01:56:30.560
And we're not knocking Vinny.
01:56:31.119 --> 01:56:32.079
No, no, no, not at all.
01:56:32.159 --> 01:56:32.239
No.
01:56:32.479 --> 01:56:33.039
We're not knocking him.
01:56:33.279 --> 01:56:33.920
I'm not knocking Vinny.
01:56:34.079 --> 01:56:35.039
It's incredible what he can do.
01:56:35.520 --> 01:56:35.920
It is absolutely.
01:56:36.079 --> 01:56:37.279
But I'm saying you you're capable of that.
01:56:37.359 --> 01:56:37.840
You watch him.
01:56:38.000 --> 01:56:39.279
I don't live for those moments.
01:56:40.960 --> 01:56:42.159
I don't.
01:56:44.479 --> 01:56:45.439
I don't know.
01:56:50.000 --> 01:56:52.880
So when's the last time you rode your motorcycle, by the way?
01:56:53.279 --> 01:56:54.479
About three weeks ago.
01:56:54.640 --> 01:56:54.880
Okay.
01:56:55.039 --> 01:56:56.159
A little too hot right now.
01:56:56.399 --> 01:56:57.359
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:56:57.520 --> 01:56:58.000
I guess so.
01:56:58.239 --> 01:56:58.640
A little too hot.
01:56:58.880 --> 01:57:00.239
You ever go any long distances?
01:57:00.479 --> 01:57:05.600
No, I don't have a good enough seat to go long distances.
01:57:05.840 --> 01:57:08.560
It's like you need a good throne, you need a you do, you do.
01:57:08.960 --> 01:57:18.079
And I've actually a buddy of mine that's a a big motorcycle head, he used to race professionally, and but he's also an amazing musician and one of my long-term friends.
01:57:18.319 --> 01:57:22.800
Yeah, uh, I said, Man, I gotta get a better seat for this bike.
01:57:22.880 --> 01:57:26.000
And he immediately, oh, call Sarge seats, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
01:57:26.079 --> 01:57:31.840
They'll you know, send them the base to the seat and they'll rebuild it and make it where you can sit in longer than a hundred miles.
01:57:32.000 --> 01:57:32.640
Yeah.
01:57:33.600 --> 01:57:35.920
When's the last vacation you took?
01:57:37.279 --> 01:57:37.920
Wow.
01:57:41.600 --> 01:57:43.520
Depends on what you call a vacation.
01:57:43.760 --> 01:57:44.000
Ooh.
01:57:44.159 --> 01:57:46.720
This is what is this why we need to phone the wife and get her opinion?
01:57:46.800 --> 01:57:47.600
Or is this a point of the city?
01:57:47.760 --> 01:57:53.119
It's funny because we kind of almost had a little bit of that conversation the other night.
01:57:54.319 --> 01:57:56.960
See, my wife traveled for a living for a long time too.
01:57:57.039 --> 01:57:58.319
She was a flight attendant.
01:57:58.800 --> 01:57:59.039
Oh.
01:57:59.600 --> 01:58:06.000
When you travel for a living, when you have time off, the last thing you want to do is travel.
01:58:07.039 --> 01:58:15.119
So, you know, a vacation for us is our daughter and son-in-law uh are in Florida right now for his residency down there.
01:58:15.279 --> 01:58:16.800
They're they're almost finished with it.
01:58:16.960 --> 01:58:20.720
But a vacation for us can be going down there for four days.
01:58:20.880 --> 01:58:25.279
That's you know, it doesn't have to be going someplace and doing something.
01:58:26.000 --> 01:58:26.319
You know.
01:58:26.560 --> 01:58:28.159
Well, it can be going to a beach.
01:58:28.319 --> 01:58:29.199
Yeah, that's what I meant.
01:58:29.359 --> 01:58:40.720
Like a Caribbean and just if that's the case, I I think we went to we went to 30A, but that's been six or seven years ago.
01:58:41.680 --> 01:58:43.279
We spent a few days there.
01:58:43.359 --> 01:58:46.640
We have a friend that has a condominium there.
01:58:47.039 --> 01:58:51.119
And they uh, you know, allow us to use it sometimes.
01:58:51.359 --> 01:58:53.279
And uh and it was it was nice.
01:58:53.439 --> 01:58:54.000
It was really nice.
01:58:54.159 --> 01:58:55.920
We were there for about a week, I think.
01:58:56.239 --> 01:59:00.880
But I guess you said it like you she your wife did traveled for work, so it's like I get it.
01:59:00.960 --> 01:59:06.960
So it's not a case of where she's like, honey, come on, when are you gonna take a I think she's getting a little more of the itch now?
01:59:07.039 --> 01:59:09.680
She told me the other day she just sent me a text out of blue.
01:59:09.920 --> 01:59:13.359
She said, I want to ride a donkey down the Grand Canyon.
01:59:13.600 --> 01:59:13.840
Right.
01:59:14.159 --> 01:59:16.000
She's grew up with horses.
01:59:16.239 --> 01:59:16.399
Right.
01:59:16.560 --> 01:59:18.560
And I'm like, well, okay.
01:59:19.600 --> 01:59:23.039
So I think that will be the next thing we do, something like that.
01:59:23.279 --> 01:59:31.279
Once again, my my buddy with the motorcycle seat, Rusty, uh, he he and his wife have gone out there a couple of times and done that.
01:59:31.359 --> 01:59:42.640
So he uh and he's a big planner, so I can just Rusty tell me what to do, you know, and he'll like it's this and this and this, and you gotta do this, blah blah blah blah blah stay here and stay there and done.
01:59:42.800 --> 01:59:44.720
You know, he'll know exactly.
01:59:45.039 --> 01:59:47.760
Well, how far ahead are you booked right now?
01:59:48.800 --> 01:59:52.319
Um for example, do you have bookings?
01:59:52.640 --> 01:59:54.720
I have stuff into October.
01:59:56.319 --> 01:59:57.439
Is that normal for you?
01:59:57.600 --> 02:00:07.039
Like how far do you have a rule if you don't go farther ahead than I book anything, any anything that calls that a day is open, I book.
02:00:07.199 --> 02:00:07.600
Period.
02:00:07.840 --> 02:00:11.359
Okay, so if someone does book, say six months from now, you'll take it, you'll put it in.
02:00:11.600 --> 02:00:12.000
Absolutely.
02:00:12.239 --> 02:00:12.640
Gotcha.
02:00:13.199 --> 02:00:14.720
And it doesn't matter what it is.
02:00:14.800 --> 02:00:22.800
Uh I I you know, demos, club gig, you know, just I don't quantify any of that stuff, if that's the word.
02:00:23.119 --> 02:00:26.319
In other words, none of it holds more value than the next thing to me.
02:00:26.399 --> 02:00:27.039
It's just work.
02:00:27.279 --> 02:00:28.800
Is it first come, first serve?
02:00:30.319 --> 02:00:41.199
Generally, now if you know, if I have a demo on a day and you know, Jay's choice calls and says, I need you four days this week, and then one of them is that day.
02:00:41.359 --> 02:00:47.199
But that's that's we call that Nashville session poker, is what that's called.
02:00:47.680 --> 02:00:48.960
Because it's a given.
02:00:49.039 --> 02:00:54.800
And and and the people that booked you on that demo, unless it's like the morning of, you know.
02:00:55.199 --> 02:00:57.520
And you're gonna really leave them in a yeah, yeah, yeah.
02:00:57.600 --> 02:00:59.439
Yeah, but it's never that.
02:00:59.600 --> 02:01:04.319
You know, you you always have a good handful of days to say, hey man, I'm so sorry.
02:01:04.399 --> 02:01:08.159
But and they understand that because most of them have been in that same position.
02:01:08.399 --> 02:01:09.520
So you're honest.
02:01:09.760 --> 02:01:10.479
That's the key.
02:01:10.560 --> 02:01:11.760
You gotta be honest about it, right?
02:01:11.840 --> 02:01:12.720
Is that part of the deal?
02:01:13.039 --> 02:01:13.279
Yes.
02:01:13.439 --> 02:01:14.159
You have to be up front.
02:01:14.319 --> 02:01:17.840
Hey man, I know I said, but this can't you have to tell them.
02:01:18.159 --> 02:01:24.159
Yes, this is five thousand more dollars than what I'm gonna make with you.
02:01:24.399 --> 02:01:24.720
Right.
02:01:24.960 --> 02:01:27.600
And and right you don't ever have to say that.
02:01:27.680 --> 02:01:28.479
They know that.
02:01:28.640 --> 02:01:28.960
Gotcha.
02:01:32.319 --> 02:01:38.239
And I I'm sorry, but I need to ask a, you know, pull a plug on that.
02:01:38.479 --> 02:01:39.279
I apologize.
02:01:40.159 --> 02:01:42.640
But otherwise, they they go in the book, as you said.
02:01:42.720 --> 02:01:45.119
Otherwise, sure, great, demo, whatever.
02:01:45.359 --> 02:01:46.479
Club gig, whatever.
02:01:46.640 --> 02:01:47.039
Yeah.
02:01:47.199 --> 02:01:47.680
I love it.
02:01:47.920 --> 02:01:53.119
Yeah, because it's just it's all playing, it's a chance to play and work and all that, you know.
02:01:53.520 --> 02:01:56.560
I don't overvalue my services.
02:01:58.960 --> 02:01:59.920
Interesting.
02:02:00.319 --> 02:02:00.800
Yeah.
02:02:01.039 --> 02:02:02.239
I mean, you know.
02:02:02.479 --> 02:02:02.880
Yeah.
02:02:03.119 --> 02:02:04.479
You have your rate.
02:02:04.720 --> 02:02:05.039
Right?
02:02:05.199 --> 02:02:08.560
I mean my rate is generally what someone's offering.
02:02:10.079 --> 02:02:11.119
This is our budget.
02:02:12.000 --> 02:02:12.239
Sure.
02:02:12.560 --> 02:02:13.119
Pretty much.
02:02:13.279 --> 02:02:19.840
It's it's rare that someone comes to you and says, hey man, uh, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
02:02:20.000 --> 02:02:30.720
But it's you know, it's only 50 bucks, you know, and it's and it's like, you really, two days for 50 bucks, you gotta be, you know, listen, man, I'm sorry, I just can't, you know.
02:02:31.840 --> 02:02:34.000
But I don't make the 50 bucks an issue.
02:02:34.159 --> 02:02:36.000
I just say, I'm sorry, I can't do it.
02:02:36.319 --> 02:02:36.960
Right.
02:02:37.920 --> 02:02:38.560
Right.
02:02:39.600 --> 02:02:40.399
Wow, man.
02:02:40.479 --> 02:02:41.359
Okay, listen.
02:02:41.520 --> 02:02:43.920
Um, we're gonna have to wrap this up, unfortunately.
02:02:44.239 --> 02:02:47.520
But uh we're gonna have to do a part two, I think.
02:02:47.920 --> 02:02:48.479
Whatever you want, yeah.
02:02:49.039 --> 02:02:51.279
Well, at some point, I mean, I will be back in town.
02:02:51.439 --> 02:02:51.760
Okay.
02:02:51.920 --> 02:02:53.279
You know, I mean, I'm here for the week.
02:02:53.359 --> 02:02:54.239
I'm doing this.
02:02:54.479 --> 02:02:54.720
Good.
02:02:55.279 --> 02:02:56.319
Who else you doing?
02:02:56.640 --> 02:02:57.359
Oh man.
02:02:57.600 --> 02:03:01.600
Uh I'll tell you what, I promise I'm gonna tell you when I turn this off.
02:03:01.680 --> 02:03:06.000
Because if I yeah, if I start telling names, then there's not a surprise every week.
02:03:06.640 --> 02:03:07.119
Oh, yeah, sure.
02:03:07.199 --> 02:03:07.439
Yeah, yeah.
02:03:07.600 --> 02:03:08.319
I like it that way.
02:03:08.479 --> 02:03:10.880
Well, this is gonna be a surprise because they're gonna go, who?
02:03:12.720 --> 02:03:15.039
Yeah, but I'm gonna send it to the Rolling Stones people.
02:03:16.399 --> 02:03:19.600
That's that's gonna be the OGs, the height of pretension.
02:03:19.760 --> 02:03:22.800
Oh, hey, he thinks he can play with us.
02:03:23.279 --> 02:03:26.399
Oh, I think everyone listening knows that would be a killer.
02:03:27.359 --> 02:03:27.840
Killer.
02:03:29.039 --> 02:03:30.159
Oh my gosh.
02:03:30.399 --> 02:03:33.760
I think a lot of us would just pay to hear that eventually.
02:03:34.079 --> 02:03:36.640
I mean Steve Jordan would have whipped my ass.
02:03:36.960 --> 02:03:38.479
Well, you said you've never met him, right?
02:03:38.560 --> 02:03:39.119
I've never met him.
02:03:39.279 --> 02:03:40.159
You talk to him ever?
02:03:40.399 --> 02:03:40.720
Mm-mm.
02:03:40.880 --> 02:03:41.199
Okay.
02:03:41.359 --> 02:03:45.279
The closest I ever came to meeting him is I rented him some hardware.
02:03:45.520 --> 02:03:47.279
I didn't rent it to him directly.
02:03:47.439 --> 02:03:50.960
He he was coming to town to cut some stuff at Vince Gill's house.
02:03:51.119 --> 02:03:58.479
And uh, and he specifically wanted lightweight Pearl 1400, I mean uh Ludwig 1400 stands.
02:03:58.560 --> 02:04:00.560
And and he's right about this.
02:04:00.800 --> 02:04:04.319
That that lightweight hardware, it makes you play the kit differently.
02:04:04.640 --> 02:04:11.039
You have to you can't, you know what I mean, you can't just pound the kit with that hardware.
02:04:11.119 --> 02:04:14.079
You it dictates your touch to the kit.
02:04:14.239 --> 02:04:15.039
He's right.
02:04:15.199 --> 02:04:18.800
And so he wanted that, and and Drum Paradise didn't have any of it.
02:04:18.880 --> 02:04:20.800
And I have a crap load of it.
02:04:21.039 --> 02:04:22.000
So I took it.
02:04:22.079 --> 02:04:25.680
So they called you, is that yeah, they called me and I just brought it to them.
02:04:25.840 --> 02:04:26.960
Now, do they pay you for that?
02:04:27.279 --> 02:04:28.800
I don't think I charged them.
02:04:28.960 --> 02:04:34.560
Uh, you know, because Harry's a great guy and we do stuff for each other all the time, and if I can ever help him out, I don't mind.
02:04:34.720 --> 02:04:36.239
Even if he charged them, I don't think I took.
02:04:36.560 --> 02:04:37.439
Harry is a great guy.
02:04:37.600 --> 02:04:39.279
Yeah, I don't think I took any money.
02:04:39.439 --> 02:04:41.680
I'm like, dude, you make the money out, you know.
02:04:41.920 --> 02:04:43.680
Much as you do for me, I don't care.
02:04:43.920 --> 02:04:44.399
Right.
02:04:44.640 --> 02:04:45.039
Right.
02:04:45.279 --> 02:04:47.119
Did you set up your drums last night?
02:04:47.359 --> 02:04:48.000
I did.
02:04:49.279 --> 02:04:49.680
Yeah.
02:04:50.000 --> 02:04:52.000
You don't get to do that often, do you?
02:04:52.239 --> 02:04:53.520
I do it more than you think.
02:04:53.680 --> 02:04:54.000
Really?
02:04:54.159 --> 02:04:54.720
Oh yeah.
02:04:55.039 --> 02:04:56.560
But you use cartridge?
02:04:56.880 --> 02:05:02.720
Well, for for session stuff, if if I'm not playing a house kit, yeah, it's always cartridge.
02:05:02.960 --> 02:05:14.159
On rare occasions, someone will say, Hey man, I can't really pay that rate, but can I give you an extra hundred bucks to bring a kit from home or something like that?
02:05:14.239 --> 02:05:17.600
And I'm like, Well, yeah, you know, I'll do that, whatever.
02:05:17.920 --> 02:05:18.560
Interesting.
02:05:18.800 --> 02:05:18.960
Yeah.
02:05:19.119 --> 02:05:26.720
If there's not a house kit and but cartridge is an issue, you know, I I have stuff I can throw in the car and and go.
02:05:26.960 --> 02:05:30.880
Do you when you when when you have to lug drums, do you does that dictate what you bring?
02:05:31.680 --> 02:05:33.039
In other words, do you like lightweight?
02:05:33.199 --> 02:05:37.439
Do you like you know, I just no, I always just bring what I think's appropriate.
02:05:37.680 --> 02:05:37.920
Okay.
02:05:38.159 --> 02:05:40.960
You don't think about the weight of it, you don't think about that, the lugging in.
02:05:41.199 --> 02:05:48.239
No, because I I I mean I don't the stuff I use is not gargantuan anyway.
02:05:48.479 --> 02:05:51.279
I just meant like a three-ply 20-inch as opposed to Yeah.
02:05:52.079 --> 02:05:55.920
If that if the 20-inch was appropriate for the gig, I would.
02:05:56.159 --> 02:05:57.840
Do you ever use a 20-inch on a session?
02:05:58.079 --> 02:06:03.039
When I f when I first was coming to town commuting from Memphis, I used a 20 a lot.
02:06:04.239 --> 02:06:07.920
Uh and it's and Was that because you were commuting and it was convenient?
02:06:08.000 --> 02:06:09.039
Yeah, yeah, he's nodding.
02:06:09.119 --> 02:06:11.520
So, so and it was so funny.
02:06:11.760 --> 02:06:17.840
The first time I brought it in, the guy was looking at it like, I'm like, dude, the mic don't know what size it is.
02:06:17.920 --> 02:06:18.159
Right.
02:06:18.319 --> 02:06:20.000
You know, just put the mic on it.
02:06:20.239 --> 02:06:22.560
If you're getting too much attack, pull it back a little bit.
02:06:22.800 --> 02:06:24.319
Do you still feel the same way?
02:06:24.560 --> 02:06:25.520
I mean, about a 20?
02:06:25.920 --> 02:06:29.359
Well, I think you can make that case in a lot of situations.
02:06:30.079 --> 02:06:30.560
You know.
02:06:30.880 --> 02:06:33.760
I mean, could you make a 20 work in any situation?
02:06:34.079 --> 02:06:34.800
In a studio?
02:06:35.119 --> 02:06:36.560
If it were a crunch, yeah.
02:06:36.640 --> 02:06:41.439
I mean, if it were this is what we got, we gotta do this.
02:06:41.600 --> 02:06:43.119
Then yeah, you make it work.
02:06:43.840 --> 02:06:45.520
It's just not your preference.
02:06:46.479 --> 02:06:48.319
Yeah, not necessarily.
02:06:48.479 --> 02:06:48.880
Right.
02:06:49.119 --> 02:06:52.239
But once again, you do what you gotta do.
02:06:53.600 --> 02:06:59.119
You know, with bass drums, it's weird because people always think, I just tune the bass room as low as I possibly can.
02:06:59.199 --> 02:07:03.039
Well, it's not gonna sound like anything but that, or you know, tick.
02:07:03.119 --> 02:07:04.000
That's all you're gonna get.
02:07:04.079 --> 02:07:07.600
You're not gonna get any tone if the heads are completely loose.
02:07:07.760 --> 02:07:11.600
You know, if you're tuning it down like that, you're not you're not getting anything.
02:07:12.000 --> 02:07:16.880
I can't tell you how many house kits I go in and like the the back head's just gushy.
02:07:17.199 --> 02:07:25.520
It's like, you know, they've too they've detuned this thing, think thinking they're getting the bass drum lower, but they're not getting anything, it really.
02:07:25.840 --> 02:07:32.399
So I'll bring I'll bring, I'll I won't tell them, but I'll start bringing the head, the the head up where there's some tone there.
02:07:32.560 --> 02:07:34.800
It's like, what'd you do with the kick drum?
02:07:34.880 --> 02:07:36.239
Damn, that thing sounds great.
02:07:36.399 --> 02:07:38.399
I'm like, I tuned it.
02:07:39.520 --> 02:07:40.079
You know.
02:07:40.319 --> 02:07:44.000
Do you like the resident head higher or lower than the bottom?
02:07:44.239 --> 02:07:47.119
I just I just like it sympathetic.
02:07:47.439 --> 02:07:48.079
Sympathetic.
02:07:48.159 --> 02:07:49.359
And that goes for Tom's as well?
02:07:49.439 --> 02:07:56.399
You you Yeah, uh generally my bottom heads are gonna be just slightly higher than the top for the resonance.
02:07:56.960 --> 02:08:06.720
Uh but I I'm not as pitch conscious as I am tone conscious, if that makes sense.
02:08:07.600 --> 02:08:11.199
You're more you're more tone conscious than yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
02:08:11.279 --> 02:08:11.600
I got you.
02:08:11.760 --> 02:08:13.199
You tune by ear, right?
02:08:13.760 --> 02:08:14.319
Yeah.
02:08:14.560 --> 02:08:15.199
Yeah.
02:08:15.600 --> 02:08:16.079
Yeah.
02:08:16.319 --> 02:08:16.880
Yeah, yeah.
02:08:17.039 --> 02:08:17.439
I get it.
02:08:18.000 --> 02:08:24.880
Like you said, prefer the drum, the drum has a range, and you just find within that range what you want to work with.
02:08:25.039 --> 02:08:28.159
There's a higher end of the range, there's a lower end of the range.
02:08:28.640 --> 02:08:32.720
Tune it to what's appropriate for what you're doing, but in that range.
02:08:34.880 --> 02:08:35.439
Well, see.
02:08:35.680 --> 02:08:36.880
It's only going to give you so much.
02:08:36.960 --> 02:08:39.439
You ain't gonna make a 10 sound like a 14.
02:08:39.600 --> 02:08:40.800
And I'm and that's back to that.
02:08:40.880 --> 02:08:46.479
I'm saying, so with a kick drum, like you've never had to use an 18 because it's just why?
02:08:46.880 --> 02:08:48.319
Yeah, I'm Bebop.
02:08:48.479 --> 02:08:49.520
That's what you play on an 18.
02:08:50.159 --> 02:08:52.800
Well, I didn't know if you know, sometimes you just want, I guess I don't know.
02:08:52.880 --> 02:08:54.159
I mean, some guys do that, right?
02:08:54.239 --> 02:08:54.800
You know that, right?
02:08:54.960 --> 02:08:59.680
Some drummers, when they're home studios, like they'll trade it, they'll put the 18 in just for because I don't know.
02:08:59.760 --> 02:09:01.680
That's you just never did.
02:09:02.560 --> 02:09:09.760
Only if I really felt I I have I have used a 20 at home a number of times, but because the song called for it.
02:09:10.000 --> 02:09:12.640
Because it was a surf tune or something like that.
02:09:12.880 --> 02:09:20.640
You know, it was something that, yeah, back in the day it'd have been a 20 with a full front head on it, and you know, it'd be two mics on the kit.
02:09:20.800 --> 02:09:21.840
So that's what I do.
02:09:22.159 --> 02:09:22.720
Interesting.
02:09:22.960 --> 02:09:23.279
Okay.
02:09:23.520 --> 02:09:24.399
You do it that way.
02:09:24.479 --> 02:09:24.880
I get it.
02:09:25.039 --> 02:09:25.359
Yeah.
02:09:25.680 --> 02:09:26.319
Cool.
02:09:26.720 --> 02:09:30.880
I do I do tailor things to what I think is appropriate.
02:09:31.039 --> 02:09:31.359
Yeah.
02:09:31.600 --> 02:09:32.239
You know.
02:09:32.880 --> 02:09:33.600
Interesting, man.
02:09:33.680 --> 02:09:33.840
Yeah.
02:09:34.399 --> 02:09:35.359
All part of the service.
02:09:35.600 --> 02:09:36.399
See, that's the problem.
02:09:36.479 --> 02:09:38.880
We could do two hours just geeking out on all these.
02:09:39.279 --> 02:09:39.840
That's what I'm saying.
02:09:39.920 --> 02:09:42.960
Like, it's like this this stuff is just never-ending.
02:09:43.039 --> 02:09:44.000
Like you said, it's the rabbit hole.
02:09:44.079 --> 02:09:45.600
You're making it all up.
02:09:48.319 --> 02:09:49.359
It's all bullshit.
02:09:49.520 --> 02:09:50.239
Yeah, pretty much.
02:09:50.800 --> 02:09:52.399
I lied to everything was a lie.
02:09:53.520 --> 02:09:55.840
You look, you asked me questions, I gave you answers.
02:09:55.920 --> 02:09:56.560
What do you care?
02:09:56.720 --> 02:09:57.760
I'm just a quick thinker.
02:10:00.159 --> 02:10:00.720
I love it.
02:10:01.039 --> 02:10:01.600
It's been fun.
02:10:01.760 --> 02:10:02.399
I appreciate it.
02:10:02.560 --> 02:10:02.800
Yeah?
02:10:02.960 --> 02:10:03.680
You had a good time?
02:10:03.840 --> 02:10:04.079
Yeah.
02:10:04.239 --> 02:10:05.840
I I I'm glad you did, man.
02:10:05.920 --> 02:10:07.600
I I really appreciate you got to do this.
02:10:07.680 --> 02:10:09.600
And by the way, years in the making.
02:10:09.840 --> 02:10:10.800
You don't even know that.
02:10:10.960 --> 02:10:11.680
No, I don't know.
02:10:12.079 --> 02:10:13.680
I started this show 11 years ago.
02:10:13.840 --> 02:10:14.720
Oh, you told me that.
02:10:15.119 --> 02:10:16.560
But I only do in person.
02:10:16.880 --> 02:10:21.439
I do not well, there was one exception, but that's the way it should be done.
02:10:21.520 --> 02:10:32.319
You know, because there's you don't ever get you don't always get everything in translation, you know, unless you read facial and you know, I mean, that's just communication level.
02:10:32.560 --> 02:10:37.039
And the Zoom thing and the fa- It's like recording.
02:10:37.279 --> 02:10:39.760
I think every one I've done has been in person.
02:10:39.920 --> 02:10:40.319
I think.
02:10:40.479 --> 02:10:42.000
I might have done one that wasn't.
02:10:42.079 --> 02:10:42.560
Like a phone.
02:10:42.800 --> 02:10:44.159
I did do one that wasn't in person.
02:10:44.399 --> 02:10:45.520
Like a phoner kind of thing.
02:10:45.840 --> 02:10:46.720
It was a zoom thing.
02:10:46.880 --> 02:10:47.119
Yeah.
02:10:47.279 --> 02:10:48.079
It was a zoom thing.
02:10:48.239 --> 02:10:54.800
But it might have been, it might have been dictated by, you know, the uh Dr.
02:10:54.880 --> 02:10:55.279
Fauci?
02:10:55.600 --> 02:10:56.399
The pen Yeah.
02:10:58.560 --> 02:10:59.039
Anyway.
02:10:59.279 --> 02:11:01.359
Look, Greg, you can't do it in person, Greg.
02:11:01.920 --> 02:11:03.840
We're gonna need you to do a Zoomer.
02:11:04.159 --> 02:11:04.479
Yeah.
02:11:04.640 --> 02:11:05.680
Oh my god.
02:11:05.840 --> 02:11:06.399
Yeah.
02:11:07.039 --> 02:11:08.000
Yeah, we'll leave it there.
02:11:08.319 --> 02:11:09.279
We'll leave it there.
02:11:11.119 --> 02:11:11.760
Thank you so much.
02:11:12.000 --> 02:11:12.319
Thank you.
02:11:12.399 --> 02:11:13.119
I enjoyed it.
02:11:13.279 --> 02:11:14.399
Thanks for having me.