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00:00:04.067Welcome to the Guides Gone Wild podcast.
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00:00:06.072What is Guides Gone Wild, you ask?
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00:00:14.871This is where you'll fill your ears and minds with the stories of everyday, extraordinary women who will inspire you to take your outdoor adventure game to the next level.
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00:00:19.533Whether you're starting your journey from the couch or the trailhead, this is the place for you.
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00:00:21.100So let's get a little wild.
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00:00:23.004Let's get a little wild.
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00:00:26.670Welcome to Guides Gone Wild.
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00:00:27.513This is Jen.
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00:00:37.826Thanks for joining me as I try to claw my way out of my post-election black hole of the soul to return to work.
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00:00:43.707That's more important now than ever amplifying women's voices and telling their stories.
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00:01:19.281A few weeks ago I was fortunate to attend the Maine Outdoor Economy Summit that was held at Sunday River, and not only did I run into so many of my favorite pod people, I also had the opportunity to finally corral a guest I'd had on my wishlist for a while Because celebrity fly tire tier, celine Fromberg, aka Celine of Maine, owner of Celine's Fly Shop in Gardner, maine, led two special add-on sessions at the summit and was nice enough to sit down with me for a chat in the kitchen at Evans Notch Lodge before she left town.
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00:01:25.653So we are celebrating Womened Wednesday and Small Business Saturday a little early this year.
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00:01:49.403Celine and I talk about her fishing, tying and guiding, origin stories, entrepreneurship and entomology, floods and flies and, best of all, she shares some awesome tips and gift ideas for the wannabe fly fisher person on your list, even if that person is you Fisher person on your list, even if that person is you.
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00:01:58.137Let's get to the good stuff and hear from the queen of the vice herself, celine of Maine.
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00:01:59.319All right, celine of Maine, fly tire.
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00:02:07.733Extraordinaire shop owner, multifaceted woman of the outdoors, welcome to Guides Gone Wild, cool, cool.
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00:02:20.373So Selene and I are sitting in the kitchen at Evans Notch Lodge just having concluded our attendance at the Maine Outdoor Economy Summit, which was interesting and fun and a great place to connect.
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00:02:26.881It was held at Sunday River this year and selene stayed here at the lodge this week, which was fun.
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00:02:30.854So I got to know her and she's been on my wish list for guests for a long time.
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00:02:39.800So now I get to do it in person, in person, which is fantastic, yeah um, all right, I should put my glasses back on because I want to consult my questions.
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00:02:42.081Yeah, so I I guess I want to.
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00:02:44.304I want to get into a couple of different things.
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00:02:46.985You're from Maine originally.
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00:02:48.205No, you're not.
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00:02:50.426Okay, secret, okay, won't tell that.
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00:02:56.790Then I really want to know then, first off, how you got into fishing and then like why fly fishing?
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00:03:04.134Because that's another whole thing, and then we'll get into the tying and store thing after that.
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00:03:07.236But I want to understand why you were drawn to fishing.
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00:03:10.057There's lots of different stories in there, lots to unpack.
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00:03:17.009Yeah, so I wasn't born in Maine, but it's of Maine, because I love Maine Kept coming back to Maine.
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00:03:24.762I moved a ton as a kid and there were chunks of it that were in Maine and my dad's from Maine, so he kept coming back to Maine.
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00:03:28.288And then the other half of it was in California, which is where I was born, but who cares?
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00:03:32.723So Were you on the coast Of Maine when you were in California?
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00:03:33.925Were you close to the water?
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00:03:36.111No, okay, I don't think so.
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00:03:37.641I was there until I was five.
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00:03:38.062Oh, okay.
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00:03:47.104But then when I moved back there when I was 10, I was in Claremont, southern California, but my mother was from Northern California, san Francisco.
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00:03:50.712So different sides of the country, very different dynamics, but we kept coming back to Maine.
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00:03:54.187So, end of college, here's my origin story into fly fishing.
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00:04:06.652End of college, I fly fished for the first time and I was on the water for two hours and I forgot the rest of the world and it was like my ahas and wow, epiphanyany kind of okay, but how did that happen?
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00:04:08.264what brought you all right?
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00:04:09.727So you wind up fly fishing?
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00:04:10.729Yeah, why yeah?
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00:04:18.271I was a music major, uh-huh, and it was a really tough major and, particularly for me, uh, very intensive.
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00:04:24.069And uh, I was in a relationship at the and I was an extra long major too.
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00:04:33.740I had like an extra senior year and I was in a relationship and this guy had a brother that was in fishing wildlife in Alaska.
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00:04:39.812I was like, wow, salmon, we could go fly fishing for salmon or just go fishing for salmon.
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00:04:40.983But I was like, not just fishing.
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00:04:45.394I had done a little fishing on and off as a kid and I was like that sounds really neat.
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00:04:46.872And so I started reading about fly fishing and I was like, yeah, not just fishing.
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00:04:47.863I had done a little fishing on and off as a kid and I was like that sounds really neat.
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00:04:49.788And so I started reading about fly fishing and I was like, yeah, that's really cool.
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00:04:54.696So I was hoping that we could go to Alaska for the summer.
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00:05:02.829And things didn't work out because that's how life goes, right and kind of through that breakup, I was like I think I really like this.
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00:05:10.312And my mom actually gave me a book about women in fly fishing and I can't remember exactly what it was, but at the time in the nineties.
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00:05:17.161She actually said you know, I think that you really like this and should think about continuing with this.
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00:05:22.093And so I did, and it was the best decision I probably have ever made in my life.
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00:05:32.141Yeah, and it's something I made as a decision on my own and I think it kind of established my independence and a feeling of something that I could do.
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00:05:33.262That was all about me.
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00:05:36.711So let's, let's poke a little bit more at that.
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00:05:43.452So you're, you know, because, especially cause this was whatever 40 or 30 years ago, at this point, um, what like?
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00:05:46.922So you decided that this was something that you wanted to do.
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00:05:56.711But, like you know, for people even now who are like I don't even know where to start, like, how did you get yourself from the ideation to actual, like doing it?
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00:05:57.954So I was dirt poor.
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00:06:04.625I mean you talk about poor college students, but I, like I had no support for school, no financial support, no loans.
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00:06:06.822I was doing it entirely on my own.
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00:06:09.708So by the time I got to the end I was like beyond poor.
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00:06:29.214So I was actually it was, I think, actually post-graduation and I had my first substitute teaching job and I actually had a paycheck and the very first paycheck went towards buying an LL Bean, quest Rod and Reel outfit.
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00:06:32.228Even though you'd never really gone yet.
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00:06:33.802No, I'd never gone, you're just like.
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00:06:35.870I think this is going to be my thing, absolutely.
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00:07:01.774And I had been like eyeing this for months and reading the catalog for that, and every detail, every description memorized that LO Bean catalog for that spring year and so I took that first paycheck and put it towards that, because it was the first time I had an excess of money beyond my living expenses and so I bought a fly rod.
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00:07:06.211Okay, and then you said you hadn't been fly fishing at that point.
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00:07:12.050So did you just go out and hack around by yourself, because it wasn't like you could watch YouTube videos back then to figure out what to do.
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00:07:41.908No, so actually I bought the LO Bean casting book and I had a VHS tape of how to cast and I remember I lived in Portland at the time and the house that, or the room I was renting at the house, they had a pool and this was early spring, really early like February, late March or early March, and it was still ice and frozen over and this pool had a cover on it and a cyclone fence around it and I was out there practicing on the frozen pool.
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00:07:43.350Oh my God, that's hilarious.
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00:07:51.211I remember casting and and, uh yeah, the the line would get caught in the fence on my back, cast All right.
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00:07:52.052So you got that.
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00:07:58.153So you knew what that was going to feel like when you got on the water Plenty of detangling experience.
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00:08:01.685And so, uh, yeah, before I even got on the water, before my two hour experience, I'll tell you another funny story is that I needed waders.
00:08:01.685 -->
00:08:07.718I knew before I could got on the water, before my two hour experience I'll tell you another funny story is that I needed waders.
00:08:07.718 -->
00:08:09.625I knew before I could get in the water I needed waders.
00:08:09.625 -->
00:08:10.629Well, I didn't have any more money.
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00:08:17.487So and you know, it's cost prohibitive to start fly fishing, it just that's kind of the way of life.
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00:08:29.209So I said, oh, you know what, some of the guys at the school I'd started working at this long term sub job and Some of the guys at the school I'd started working at this long-term sub job, and they said Beans has an expo for fly fishing or for fishing in general.
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00:08:31.672I said, oh, really, you know, let's go to that.
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00:08:35.775So I went with these couple of guys and we went to the expo and they said there's a raffle.
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00:08:41.868My determined state.
00:08:41.888 -->
00:08:46.197I was so determined, I'm going to go win a pair of waders, kind of like what you tried to do with a kayak that didn't know.
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00:09:01.822So I'm looking back right we'll tell there's a kayak that was being raffled right at this outdoor economy summit, uh, this weekend and last year, and I'm just so into like, just like, oh, I gotta put all the mojo into I am going to win this kayak.
00:09:01.822 -->
00:09:02.724I tried, I was like, was like.
00:09:02.964 -->
00:09:04.506I was trying to send you signals, right.
00:09:04.667 -->
00:09:11.225I told all kinds of people I just hope that they would hope for me to win this kayak and it's, it's similar.
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00:09:31.690So I've learned a lot about myself in the last 30 years and I put these, these pieces together and, in fact, at my first workshop that I was teaching to tie fly this this weekend, I told the story about how I began, which this story I'm telling now, which is I went to LL Bean 30 years ago, went to this expo, determined to win a pair of waders.
00:09:31.690 -->
00:09:39.311So I put my name into the raffle at beans and I'm thinking you know, other people go to win stuff, right?
00:09:39.311 -->
00:09:43.705So I tell these guys want to leave and I go no, no, we have to wait until five o'clock at the raffle.
00:09:43.705 -->
00:09:46.048And so I go into the room.
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00:09:47.051They're like, okay, we'll wait.
00:09:47.051 -->
00:09:52.730So we go into the room where the raffle drawing is going to take place and there's like eight people in there.
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00:10:05.777I'm like I thought there would be hundreds of people here waiting to see what they want, realizing no, not everyone is determined, as I am, okay, and I see thousands of names in there.
00:10:05.777 -->
00:10:11.688I mean because there's everyone entering through the entire weekend at this expo, not just a few.
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00:10:16.267So I'm also seeing well, the odds are against me and yet my name gets pulled.
00:10:16.267 -->
00:10:18.732Oh my God, not for a pair of waders.
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00:10:35.908And I am so into my own world at the time, as a 23, 24 year old, that I am disappointed I don't wear up and win a pair of waders, but I do win a fly, and it's like one fly, seriously one fly, and it's on a card and it's got a signature.
00:10:36.240 -->
00:10:45.811And these guys that I'm with, who have been fishing longer and are not in the same socioeconomic range, as poor as I am, are like we should hang on to that fly.
00:10:45.811 -->
00:10:49.086I'm like well, I don't even saltwater fish or have an interest in it.
00:10:49.086 -->
00:10:50.250Why should I?
00:10:50.250 -->
00:10:52.350And they're like well, lefty cray tied that fly.
00:10:52.350 -->
00:10:53.355Yeah, who the heck is lefty?
00:10:53.355 -->
00:10:55.541I'm like if it was on a card, it was fine, exactly Right.
00:10:55.541 -->
00:10:56.922There had to be some value there.
00:10:56.922 -->
00:10:58.243Who the heck is lefty cray?
00:10:58.243 -->
00:10:59.923And I'm like you should hang on to that.
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00:11:02.005Well, they told me to hang on to it and I will.
00:11:02.005 -->
00:11:08.630And so you know, of course I did, and I lost it for 10 years, oh God.
00:11:08.630 -->
00:11:10.331But I kept my eye out for it.
00:11:10.331 -->
00:11:12.033It was in some special box, you know.
00:11:12.033 -->
00:11:18.018You tuck things away, yeah, but I did find it again, yeah, so my lefty cray fly, yeah.
00:11:22.220 -->
00:11:28.307So did you trade in, did you sell that to get some waiters, or how did you wind up with waiters you just like had to wait, oh, I bought waiters later on Five more paychecks yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:11:28.399 -->
00:11:29.947Somehow or another, I got waiters later on.
00:11:29.947 -->
00:11:31.365I was being paid very well.
00:11:31.365 -->
00:11:33.948It was probably one of my very highest paying jobs.
00:11:33.948 -->
00:11:37.450It was in Gorm as a substitute, yeah.
00:11:45.059 -->
00:11:48.628I don't think I've been paid that well even since and that was 30 years ago, yeah, so you get out on the water and it's like DIY start to finish.
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00:11:51.903Um, yeah, these guys actually helped me a little bit the first time I was in the water.
00:11:51.903 -->
00:11:57.062I remember I slipped the first time and my arm got wet and guy helped me up.
00:11:57.062 -->
00:11:59.245Uh, he's very nice about it.
00:11:59.245 -->
00:12:00.368I'm still in touch with him.
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00:12:06.364He's a good customer of mine now, so you know you do what you got to do the next time I go out fishing and it's on my own.
00:12:06.364 -->
00:12:08.328From that point forward it was always on my own.
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00:12:09.542That sub job ended.
00:12:09.542 -->
00:12:15.702I was really never in contact with those people after that until I owned a fly shop, probably 15 years later.
00:12:15.702 -->
00:12:17.105Did you catch anything?
00:12:17.125 -->
00:12:17.648the first time?
00:12:17.648 -->
00:12:20.061No, how many times did you go before?
00:12:20.081 -->
00:12:23.268you caught anything, oh geez, a couple more more times at least.
00:12:23.268 -->
00:12:29.690And I caught the smallest fish I've ever seen, probably two or three inches long, and uh, I remember what it was.
00:12:29.690 -->
00:12:37.941I know I couldn't tell you what it was it was on the Royal River, yeah, but the that, that feeling of that, wow, I forgot my life for two hours.
00:12:37.941 -->
00:12:39.865Yeah, all of that stress went away.
00:12:39.865 -->
00:12:49.927Yeah, that was remarkable to me and so, to this day forward, from that day forward, I remember I wanted to have other people have that experience.
00:12:49.927 -->
00:12:51.871It's kind of like the jumping off point.
00:12:51.871 -->
00:12:58.393I want my shop to be the jumping off point for people to have that experience, that Zen experience.
00:12:58.393 -->
00:12:59.663I've done casting for recovery.
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00:13:02.308I did that for nine years, a long time ago.
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00:13:34.182But that same sort of thing where you know they're recovering from breast cancer or just the trauma of it because they're immersed literally in what you're doing, that you can't have the rest of life be twittering around up in your head yeah that you're consumed by what you're doing.
00:13:34.261 -->
00:13:36.427Yeah, it definitely takes you out of yourself.
00:13:36.528 -->
00:13:46.389I will, I would agree with that, my limited experience of trying it out, but like so, another big part of it that I think is a little bit intimidating as you look at, you know, from the outside.
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00:13:52.461Looking in is just all I mean, and I guess this applies to fishing in general.
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00:14:11.427Although it's easy to go out and hack for a sunfish is like more the matching the fly with the, with the water, with the species with it, like there seems like there's much more of a kind of intellectual exercise in where are they, how do I, how do I lure them out of their little hole?
00:14:11.427 -->
00:14:13.264What is hatching right now?
00:14:13.264 -->
00:14:15.678Like, how did that knowledge all come along?
00:14:16.240 -->
00:14:18.528I was really intimidated by that too the first year.
00:14:18.528 -->
00:14:22.530And then I realized, well, there's, where do these flies come from?
00:14:22.530 -->
00:14:24.865They're tied, you know that kind of thing.
00:14:24.865 -->
00:14:26.871Where do these flies come from?
00:14:26.871 -->
00:14:28.115They're tied, you know that kind of thing.
00:14:28.115 -->
00:14:32.926And so I said, well, if I learn how to tie the flies, it will help me, especially with the names of the flies.
00:14:32.926 -->
00:14:33.527And I'd seen a fly tying book.
00:14:33.527 -->
00:14:38.200The first small fly shop I went into after LL Bean, I went into a fly shop that was local.
00:14:38.200 -->
00:14:53.374It was in Kennebunkport at the time where I lived, where I'd essentially grown up later years after moving around a lot, and the fly shop owner had in the shop a picture of Cary Stevens with a gray ghost underneath, and I saw that and I asked him about it.
00:14:53.374 -->
00:14:56.876He kind of told me who Cary Stevens was and I was like, oh well, that's really cool.
00:14:56.876 -->
00:15:03.591And I said to him I said will you buy my flies if I start tying them?
00:15:03.591 -->
00:15:05.399And he's just like well, you need to tie a fly first, get good at it.
00:15:05.720 -->
00:15:11.149And he says I'm really picky about my flies, you're like no, you don't get it, I commit, and then I actually do it Exactly.
00:15:12.400 -->
00:15:14.107And I was like no, no, no, I'm going to tie flies.
00:15:14.107 -->
00:15:20.586Yeah, that's what I'm going to do and, of course, you're going to buy my flies.
00:15:20.586 -->
00:15:22.730What kind of intense person I was.
00:15:22.730 -->
00:15:33.285He took me out on the lawn and gave me a casting lesson and that was really helpful because I've been flailing on my own and I did okay.
00:15:33.285 -->
00:15:34.249That lesson helped out.
00:15:34.269 -->
00:15:38.644We probably it was very cold out and probably again it was in March, I'm sure and well, maybe the next fall.
00:15:38.644 -->
00:15:43.482I remember it was cold out but maybe spent 15, 20 minutes with me and I said I really want to tie flies.
00:15:43.482 -->
00:15:45.767It was definitely the same year that I started fishing.
00:15:45.767 -->
00:15:51.461So for Christmas that year I asked for a fly tying kit and I'm pretty sure I was.
00:15:51.461 -->
00:15:54.227It must've been the December of 23.
00:15:54.469 -->
00:16:01.246Got the fly tying kit, started tying and that's how it began and I love the book.
00:16:01.246 -->
00:16:19.482How they were set up was like these are caddisflies and these are mayflies and so by tying flies I learned the entomology piece of it, kind of, even if it's the big picture, and I still think it's a great way to learn about fly fishing.
00:16:19.482 -->
00:16:31.490Learning those basics will help you get the idea of what the basic entomology and what bugs are when it comes to, you know, most kinds of fishing.
00:16:31.490 -->
00:16:35.251You know, even for bass fishing you got to know a little bit about the bugs.
00:16:35.251 -->
00:16:38.433You know why are they feeding, at what time of day.
00:16:38.433 -->
00:16:39.955And the big picture.
00:16:39.955 -->
00:16:41.394You got to understand that big picture.
00:16:41.394 -->
00:16:43.616So fly tying can help you with that.
00:16:43.616 -->
00:16:47.879Even a fly tying book even if you don't fly tie flies will help you with that.
00:16:47.979 -->
00:16:49.360Yeah, yeah, I would agree.
00:16:49.360 -->
00:16:55.273I mean again took a little fly tying workshop at one of those bow things and it was.
00:16:55.273 -->
00:17:04.892It was interesting because then you just start thinking much more about movement in the water and, like you know, the various pieces of a bug that would be notable, you know.
00:17:04.892 -->
00:17:18.615It just makes you kind of I don't know, notice a lot of those details that I would not normally think about because you know I'm not a big bug fan, right, so the tying kind of took on a pathway of its own.
00:17:18.615 -->
00:17:19.280It sounds like.
00:17:19.402 -->
00:17:20.825Life of its own, right away.
00:17:20.865 -->
00:17:22.849Yeah, yeah, tell me more about that.
00:17:23.270 -->
00:17:24.252Started tying.
00:17:24.252 -->
00:17:26.641I had that.
00:17:26.641 -->
00:17:35.027Well, then I got my first job, teaching job, in which I was told there were going to be two interviews and I did one interview and it's the only job I applied for for teaching.
00:17:35.027 -->
00:17:36.310I was a music teacher.
00:17:36.310 -->
00:17:41.710I wasn't really excited about teaching music Again, I was an education major hesitantly.
00:17:42.211 -->
00:17:48.307So here I am, like all right, I'm going to interview for some jobs and if it doesn't work out, it's okay, I'll go to grad school.
00:17:48.307 -->
00:17:51.022I had some other interests musicology.
00:17:51.022 -->
00:17:55.335So I did one interview and I said how do I get there?
00:17:55.335 -->
00:17:58.423It was Monmouth and I opened up the gazetteer to map 12.
00:17:58.423 -->
00:18:00.426And I said, oh, there's a lot of blue on that map.
00:18:00.426 -->
00:18:04.493And I did the one interview and they offered me the job instead of two interviews.
00:18:04.493 -->
00:18:07.519Like they tell you in college, you're going to do two interviews, you're going to show your portfolio.
00:18:07.519 -->
00:18:09.145And I'm just like no, they didn't care.
00:18:09.145 -->
00:18:10.992And I understand now why.
00:18:10.992 -->
00:18:25.090Which is, I am the cheapest one, they're going to pay, yeah, and so you had a pulse and you were new, I was one green warm body yep, yes, and in hindsight you know, I wish I hadn't done that.
00:18:25.352 -->
00:18:31.429Of course it definitely changed the direction trajectory of my life.
00:18:31.429 -->
00:18:45.961But taking that job also set me up in a town where they had a sporting goods shop and they had a fishing department, and so, because that job was only four fifths, I had a day off during the week and they told me not to come to school during that week.
00:18:45.961 -->
00:18:49.721So for a while, of course, I was working five days and not being paid for the fifth day.
00:18:49.721 -->
00:18:56.142But the other people said, well, it's a contract year, we're negotiating that contract and so you really shouldn't show up here.
00:18:56.142 -->
00:19:02.049So I said I'm going to get a job in a fly shop, and I did, and so that was 1994.
00:19:02.049 -->
00:19:02.529And so I've.
00:19:02.810 -->
00:19:06.796I've always worked in a fly shop or been involved in fly fishing since then.
00:19:06.796 -->
00:19:13.864So that's it's been 30 years professionally working in the industry.
00:19:13.864 -->
00:19:15.028Yeah, and it's a lot because that was a four fifths job.
00:19:15.028 -->
00:19:29.955And I took the job after one interview and that's how it worked out, and I would say it's a blessing in disguise, because it was not a full-time job and I was being paid $14,000 a year to work as a teacher after all of that.
00:19:29.955 -->
00:19:34.866So I stuck it out there for eight years and you know it is what it is.
00:19:35.000 -->
00:19:42.964But I'm most grateful for that opportunity that really a third of my working year was in fly fishing and I loved it.
00:19:42.964 -->
00:19:46.521So I got my guides license I, I think the next year or at the end of that year.
00:19:46.521 -->
00:19:52.180Um, I started a class to become a guide, really just to learn about it, love learning.
00:19:52.180 -->
00:20:04.446So, uh, it was a very intensive class, was 16 weeks long, by the one of the wardens who actually helped write the test at the time, yeah, um, and there's all kinds of stories that could go on and on 16 weeks.
00:20:04.547 -->
00:20:06.709Wow, that's like that's old school.
00:20:06.949 -->
00:20:09.031Oh yeah, and there were three, three hours.
00:20:09.031 -->
00:20:15.641Yeah, like a community college or something nearby it was actually at the shop, um, but it was a full class.
00:20:15.641 -->
00:20:20.551There were like 25 people in the class and any other women just out of curiosity?
00:20:20.613 -->
00:20:21.981Yeah, I think there were a couple.
00:20:22.563 -->
00:20:24.546I was also pregnant at the time with my first child.
00:20:24.546 -->
00:20:28.192A lot happened that year yeah, sounds like it.
00:20:28.192 -->
00:20:37.498I entered a fly tying contest Lefty Cray and Dave Whitlock were the judges and they thought I was in the junior category because I was wearing overalls and I always looked really young.
00:20:37.498 -->
00:20:39.038Yeah, but they would judge me.
00:20:39.038 -->
00:20:43.405They thought I was in the junior category, didn't talk to me and then when they thought, oh, you won the adult category.
00:20:43.405 -->
00:20:44.426Oh, fantastic.
00:20:45.749 -->
00:20:46.891And then they started talking to me.
00:20:46.891 -->
00:20:51.983But, um, so that's my my second interaction with Lefty Cray, yeah, seriously.
00:20:51.983 -->
00:20:56.614Then I'm like, oh, I should get that fly and I couldn't find it.
00:20:56.614 -->
00:20:57.742That's when I knew it was missing.
00:20:57.742 -->
00:21:00.912I didn't find it for years, uh later, until I moved.
00:21:06.342 -->
00:21:14.890Oh that's funny, yeah, so let's jump ahead, because you know you've been in retail obviously for a long time, kind of in and out, in and out, yeah, it was time flies professionally all that time, time for fly shops, working in different fly shops.
00:21:14.930 -->
00:21:18.002As one shop would close, I'd work in another fly shop.
00:21:18.002 -->
00:21:20.345I was time for almost every fly shop.
00:21:20.345 -->
00:21:22.647I would say in the state that's an exaggeration.
00:21:22.647 -->
00:21:28.535There are some that I'm sure I didn't, but most everything locally I was tying for at one time or another.
00:21:29.316 -->
00:21:34.750Um, were there any like golden years you can think back on I mean the year that I made fly tire magazine.
00:21:34.810 -->
00:21:43.045I was the, the tire profile and all of a sudden, and the internet had become a real thing and I was getting emails to tie flies.
00:21:43.045 -->
00:21:51.089So it was called the modern day, carrie Stevens and that changed things I'm looking to see if I can find that online 2003.
00:21:51.220 -->
00:21:52.425The picture is horrible.
00:21:52.425 -->
00:21:53.625It is a riot.
00:21:53.625 -->
00:21:57.327So I'm nine months pregnant and Dave Klausmeier would not.
00:21:57.327 -->
00:22:01.482I'm waiting until I wouldn't take a picture of myself For some reason.
00:22:01.482 -->
00:22:04.262I'm just like I am pregnant, like I don't fit into waiters picture of myself For some reason.
00:22:04.262 -->
00:22:05.484I'm just like I'm pregnant, like I don't fit into waiters.
00:22:05.484 -->
00:22:10.814I'm it's my second child at that point and I'm like um, I just can't come up with doing a picture.
00:22:10.814 -->
00:22:20.723So he comes to my house and takes a picture, like the week I give birth I am so bloated and I got this blotchy face and I'm thinking he's going to take a picture of me at my vice with my hands.
00:22:20.723 -->
00:22:27.730Well, he did take some of those pictures at my house, but the one that he submits for, the picture of fly tire, is just a headshot.
00:22:27.730 -->
00:22:29.592I'm like I could have given you a headshot.
00:22:30.432 -->
00:22:30.673Right.
00:22:30.673 -->
00:22:34.696If you just told me to do a headshot, it would have been fine, it was very funny.
00:22:34.696 -->
00:22:41.403So, uh, I still look back at that and like that picture is horrible.
00:22:41.403 -->
00:22:42.304So I and I have that, but I cringe.
00:22:42.304 -->
00:22:42.503I'm proud.
00:22:42.503 -->
00:22:43.204Exactly, Exactly Right.
00:22:43.204 -->
00:22:44.207There's always something wrong.
00:22:45.249 -->
00:22:45.869That's funny.
00:22:45.930 -->
00:22:47.152Yeah, but that was the best year.
00:22:47.152 -->
00:22:49.095I got like 400 orders from that.
00:22:49.095 -->
00:22:54.442Wow, oh yeah, that would.
00:22:54.442 -->
00:22:55.326That would do it Absolutely.
00:22:55.326 -->
00:22:56.351And I wasn't tying those in my hands.
00:22:56.351 -->
00:22:57.073It wasn't until the next year.
00:22:57.073 -->
00:23:05.702I don't think that I was tying flies in my hands without advice, like Carrie Stevens, I just decided to take it on and try it and I was just like this isn't that bad.
00:23:05.742 -->
00:23:08.655And I said did you, did you teach people to do that yesterday or on Wednesday?
00:23:08.655 -->
00:23:08.876I'm sorry.
00:23:09.077 -->
00:23:09.539Yeah, oh, that's right.
00:23:09.539 -->
00:23:12.151You said you brought vices Right, brought vices and did it with a vice.
00:23:12.151 -->
00:23:22.372But um, for demonstration purposes and to kind of promote Carrie Stevens and keep the tradition alive, I do it as a demo to show people like how it was done.
00:23:22.372 -->
00:23:37.213Literally a hundred years ago the gray ghost was created by Carrie Stevens in Rangeley, and so I do tie gray ghosts and other of her flies in my hands without a vice and try to use authentic materials as much as possible.
00:23:37.213 -->
00:23:48.173Yeah, we don't know exactly how she did it, so I'm sure my methods are not identical to how she did, but that's what I do, just to demonstrate that it can be done, that it can be done.
00:23:48.213 -->
00:23:49.535Yeah, yeah, that's cool.
00:23:49.535 -->
00:23:52.189Keep the party going, absolutely.
00:23:52.189 -->
00:23:54.045So let's talk about Celine's.
00:23:54.045 -->
00:23:55.068Is it called?
00:23:55.068 -->
00:23:56.614It's Celine's Fly Shop, right, celine's.
00:23:56.653 -->
00:23:57.220Fly Shop yeah.
00:23:57.259 -->
00:23:59.007So let's talk about Celine's Fly Shop.
00:23:59.007 -->
00:24:02.269Like why, when and what's it been.
00:24:02.269 -->
00:24:06.702Like, yeah, when and what's it been like.
00:24:06.702 -->
00:24:09.917Yeah, so unexpected I mean because you've worked in retail quite a bit, so like, yeah, I'm sure you kind of felt pretty confident going into it.
00:24:09.917 -->
00:24:12.789But like I also would love to hear about any surprises that have come up on right.
00:24:12.971 -->
00:24:13.854So I raised kids.
00:24:13.854 -->
00:24:15.160Life is complicated.
00:24:15.160 -->
00:24:17.044You do whatever you can, right, you get by.
00:24:17.044 -->
00:24:17.806And then here we are.
00:24:17.806 -->
00:24:27.882After the pandemic in august I think 22 three of our kids moved out in the same week and our oldest dog died like three weeks before that.
00:24:27.882 -->
00:24:29.645So it was like three kids moving out.
00:24:29.645 -->
00:24:32.452We said, free, at last I can open a fly shop.
00:24:32.452 -->
00:24:34.242And that's what we did.
00:24:34.242 -->
00:24:38.311So the next month we actually opened in Gardner, uh-huh, uh.
00:24:38.311 -->
00:24:46.618So downtown water street, uh, in downtown Gardner we opened a fly shop and got a small loan and a kind of a tiny loan.
00:24:46.618 -->
00:24:54.788When I go back and I think about it, yeah, and got some inventory and gave it a go and it's the best decision I've made in a very, very long time.
00:24:55.750 -->
00:25:05.969I'm intrigued by this, though, because from a retail perspective, like I got to, there's just we were talking about this a little bit yesterday there's like a million billion SKUs, right.
00:25:05.969 -->
00:25:10.971I mean, I guess some of this stuff will be not necessarily high investment stuff.
00:25:11.050 -->
00:25:11.451No, no, no.
00:25:11.519 -->
00:25:23.428There's a lot of things that you need to have in order to be kind of a full service shop, Right Along with you know, the expensive, high end stuff which is like the reels and the rods and all that stuff Known as a fly tire.
00:25:23.608 -->
00:25:29.576I was willing to take that on to sell materials because I know what to buy and I've done it for other shops.
00:25:29.576 -->
00:25:43.627I've ordered their fly tying materials, so I knew what I was getting into, as well as and I hadn't done this before, I hadn't done high-end rods, so that was a bigger investment that I was more nervous about, because everyone says oh, you're opening a fly shop, what rods are you going to have?
00:25:43.627 -->
00:25:44.810That's the question.
00:25:44.810 -->
00:25:45.050So I about.
00:25:45.050 -->
00:25:46.672Because everyone says oh, you're opening a fly shop, what rods you gonna have?
00:25:46.672 -->
00:25:47.272Yeah, that's the question.
00:25:47.272 -->
00:25:49.193So I had a harder time finding the right rod so I could answer that question.
00:25:49.193 -->
00:25:50.996Nobody cares about that now as much.
00:25:50.996 -->
00:25:52.115They're like oh, you have a fly shop?
00:25:52.115 -->
00:25:54.944Yeah, and they don't even ask me that well, what rods do you carry?
00:25:54.944 -->
00:25:58.459It comes up once in a while yeah, but I do have high-end rods.
00:25:58.519 -->
00:26:11.809I got low-end rods, I got the middle right, serving all aspects and you didn't open it to be like, have an online component necessarily although I'm sure you do now, but so, like, what made you pick that spot?
00:26:11.809 -->
00:26:12.612I mean, did you?
00:26:12.612 -->
00:26:17.278Like market research did you do to know like, hey, this is a good spot it is a good spot.
00:26:17.439 -->
00:26:18.762But yeah, did market research.
00:26:18.762 -->
00:26:21.589But I know the state well enough is that it's good location.
00:26:21.589 -->
00:26:23.144It's at the confluence of the kabasi.
00:26:23.144 -->
00:26:23.868That's full name is kabasi k.
00:26:23.868 -->
00:26:28.486It's at the confluence of the Cabasee full name is Cabasee-Conti stream with the confluence of the Kennebec river.
00:26:28.486 -->
00:26:37.374There used to be a fly shop very well known, owned by Mike Holt, called Fly Fishing Only, and that was in Fairfield.
00:26:37.836 -->
00:26:38.076Maine.
00:26:39.078 -->
00:26:42.969And that was right on the Kennebec river, so it was a beloved fly shop.
00:26:42.969 -->
00:26:50.146It closed probably well now I guess it'd be about 14 years ago and it closed pretty suddenly for a variety of reasons.
00:26:50.146 -->
00:26:56.612But it's very missed and so we knew that having a fly shop on the Kennebec River was going to be good.
00:26:56.612 -->
00:27:02.887Also, having it near the highway, so that people going north and south would be able to get to it easily.
00:27:02.887 -->
00:27:09.855Not having it as a destination shop, as in you're going to fish on the Kennebec River right here, wasn't as important to us.
00:27:09.855 -->
00:27:14.830So while we live a couple of towns away, we're willing to drive that half an hour to get to Gardner.
00:27:14.830 -->
00:27:22.903Another reason why opening a shop in Gardner was good is that they have a great downtown association called Gardner Main Street.
00:27:22.903 -->
00:27:27.612That is very supportive of the downtown businesses, and so they helped us.
00:27:27.612 -->
00:27:32.622You know, find a place, get started, and you know we wouldn't be in business.
00:27:32.682 -->
00:27:33.443I don't think without them.
00:27:33.443 -->
00:27:35.328They've been fantastic as a support.
00:27:35.829 -->
00:27:37.923So smart to be near the highway because there's just so.
00:27:37.923 -->
00:27:43.288There's so much, there's so much water north of you that people are heading to.
00:27:43.348 -->
00:27:44.493So that is super smart.
00:27:44.493 -->
00:27:46.501So either exit north or south.
00:27:46.501 -->
00:27:47.904There's two exits for Gardner.
00:27:47.904 -->
00:27:54.428It doesn't matter which one you take at seven miles off and you make it brings you right onto Water Street.
00:27:54.428 -->
00:27:57.032So it's so easy and we've heard that you know.
00:27:57.032 -->
00:28:01.815You Google whatever fly shop and it will bring you right to it Right there.
00:28:01.815 -->
00:28:04.644Yeah, so that's, that's been very convenient and easy.
00:28:04.644 -->
00:28:07.392It's also a great distance from any other fly shop.
00:28:07.392 -->
00:28:11.951We look at fly shops in Maine as being collaborators, not competition.
00:28:11.951 -->
00:28:17.069We like to complement what they have, you know, being the distance we are from every other fly shop.
00:28:17.069 -->
00:28:21.892It kind of puts us centrally located within all the other fly shops that are in the state.
00:28:21.892 -->
00:28:25.130We're kind of the one in the middle along that side of the highway.
00:28:25.130 -->
00:28:31.692So it's a good location and good area in the state.
00:28:32.299 -->
00:28:35.749Are you the only female owner-operator of a fly shop in Maine?
00:28:36.089 -->
00:28:38.846In Maine, absolutely, in New England I'm not.
00:28:38.846 -->
00:28:43.527Actually, Daddy's Flies is co-owned by a woman and I don't know.
00:28:43.527 -->
00:28:45.105I'm sure there are other ones in the country.
00:28:45.105 -->
00:28:48.847I think there are other ones in New York, yeah, but that's what interesting.
00:28:49.509 -->
00:28:54.532Any unexpected like was there anything that came up that you're like whoa didn't see this coming?
00:28:54.914 -->
00:29:02.400oh yeah, the ceiling collapsing, the pipes bursting and being closed for three weeks, where everything in the store is wet.
00:29:02.400 -->
00:29:04.924Dealing with that landlord, we ended up leaving.
00:29:04.924 -->
00:29:11.328Building Gardner Main Street helped us find another location just down the street, which is gorgeous, and we will stay there forever.
00:29:11.328 -->
00:29:18.571So we're in a fantastic location, still on Water Street, just a couple doors down, and that opportunity became available.
00:29:18.571 -->
00:29:22.329If we had seen that a year before, we wouldn't have been able to take it.
00:29:22.329 -->
00:29:28.172We didn't have the experience, we didn't have enough inventory, we didn't have all the things that we needed that we had a year later.
00:29:28.172 -->
00:29:30.663So we grew and then we could.
00:29:30.663 -->
00:29:33.229We grew into the location that we're in now.
00:29:33.229 -->
00:29:43.143So everything fell into place as it needed to right and then the flood came one month after we opened and then we found out how good our location was right.
00:29:43.143 -->
00:29:51.776It's like we got tested a month later and we 20 feet floodwaters, 20 feet high came all the way up to the ceiling of the basement.
00:29:51.776 -->
00:29:53.263We didn't really have anything in the basement.
00:29:53.263 -->
00:29:53.945This is December.
00:29:54.106 -->
00:29:55.049Last December, yep last.
00:29:55.089 -->
00:29:59.230December, and then everything came up to the ceiling of the basement.
00:29:59.230 -->
00:30:07.020We didn't have anything good down there, but, unlike all of our neighbors neighbors, essentially our electrical panels are on our first floor.
00:30:07.020 -->
00:30:18.246We, our landlord, has a new furnace that is natural gas on the first floor, and so, you know, we just waited for the water to go down.
00:30:18.246 -->
00:30:27.084I mean, it was a little hair raising, yeah, you know, waiting to see whether how high it was going come, and then we were a week without power, but I stayed open for it.
00:30:27.084 -->
00:30:32.444I was closed for a day and a half or two days, something like that, and it was right before Christmas.
00:30:32.444 -->
00:30:34.132So we need those Christmas dollars.
00:30:34.132 -->
00:30:37.944So you know, we fared better than anybody else on the block.
00:30:37.944 -->
00:30:44.207It might've been leaders and saying listen, if you, if it's just power that you don't have, you can still run your sales through your phone.
00:30:44.207 -->
00:30:52.150If you have Square or some other POS system and let's make a goal of it we don't have to shut down, right, you know?
00:30:52.150 -->
00:30:52.510Yeah.
00:30:52.799 -->
00:30:57.905So, we did okay, yeah, and so we've been through that and we can do it again if we need to.
00:30:57.905 -->
00:30:59.189We're knocking on wood.
00:30:59.189 -->
00:31:00.752Yeah, it will happen.
00:31:00.752 -->
00:31:02.707Gardner is quite resilient.
00:31:02.707 -->
00:31:07.448It's a great community and there is so much to do down there that people don't even realize.
00:31:07.448 -->
00:31:08.332We have fantastic restaurants.
00:31:08.332 -->
00:31:11.345We're directly across the street from Johnson Hall.
00:31:11.345 -->
00:31:13.991It's an opera house that was redone, took two years to do.
00:31:13.991 -->
00:31:18.851It's historic, it's gorgeous now and they've got a lot of great shows that come to it.
00:31:18.851 -->
00:31:21.944And we're doing a show there tomorrow.
00:31:21.944 -->
00:31:23.788Oh yeah, film the film festival, that's right.
00:31:23.928 -->
00:31:27.153Me and outdoor film festival, that's, that's pretty, that's gonna be awesome.
00:31:27.153 -->
00:31:32.000Um, so let's talk about, yeah, a couple other things I want to talk about.
00:31:32.000 -->
00:31:34.084Um, are you still guiding?
00:31:35.066 -->
00:31:42.481so, yeah, guiding has been a like a thorn in my side.
00:31:42.481 -->
00:31:44.266So I got my guides license.
00:31:44.266 -->
00:31:55.404Not because I wanted to guide, necessarily, but that kind of tends to be a theme Like I like the education part of it and then it's hard to emotionally get out there and do the thing.
00:31:55.404 -->
00:32:09.601Yes, so my very first time guiding, I got in a little little hot water and it's a good story I'm not going to tell, because it's actually the first chapter of a book I'm kind of working on all right, so someday it might come out.
00:32:09.781 -->
00:32:10.604Might come out.
00:32:10.604 -->
00:32:13.750You want to know the story by pre-order the book?
00:32:13.810 -->
00:32:15.862yeah, it has a title.
00:32:15.862 -->
00:32:17.405It's had a title for 10 years.
00:32:17.405 -->
00:32:24.273Don't judge a woman by her waders stories of a guide and the evolution of her flies.
00:32:24.273 -->
00:32:24.895Yeah, that's a good one.
00:32:24.895 -->
00:32:25.979Stories of a Guide and the Evolution of Her Flies, oh.
00:32:25.999 -->
00:32:26.180I like it.
00:32:26.180 -->
00:32:29.621That's a good subtitle, yeah, yeah.
00:32:29.621 -->
00:32:33.372Well, I'm asking that as much, being curious about whether you're still guiding.
00:32:33.372 -->
00:32:47.307But also I think that one of the things that maybe having witnessed groups come here to go fly fishing with groups it's been in a very controlled environment where there's been a lot of support for that undertaking, in a very controlled environment where there's been a lot of support for that undertaking.
00:32:47.307 -->
00:32:57.885But I think that a lot of the reason that, um, the folks that come to like the outcast camp out here come is because they don't want to have to facilitate that for themselves right outside of this nice safe environment.
00:32:57.945 -->
00:33:02.981So for people who are like, yes, I'm curious, yes, I'm, but I'm not going to watch 700.
00:33:02.981 -->
00:33:05.388You know, I'm not going to be a DIYer like you were.
00:33:05.388 -->
00:33:05.829I'm not going to.
00:33:05.829 -->
00:33:08.336You know what I'm curious about?
00:33:08.336 -->
00:33:09.941Like, how can you find a good guide?
00:33:09.941 -->
00:33:11.746What are the questions you should ask?
00:33:11.746 -->
00:33:12.587You know, what do you?
00:33:12.587 -->
00:33:19.825What should you look for if you're like literally a brand new person and you want to go with somebody and feel safe and supported and, you know, have a great?
00:33:19.845 -->
00:33:20.265experience.
00:33:20.265 -->
00:33:32.476So I am just in my life figuring out that not everybody is a DIYer and not everybody has done things the way that I do, because I've been like in this survival sort of I didn't.
00:33:32.476 -->
00:33:43.612I'm just learning that I mean, I guess I knew that people were kind of like people pay for everything, right, right, but that seemed like a group of people that is very far away from me, right.
00:33:43.619 -->
00:33:50.530Right a group of people that is very far away from me, right, but there are a lot of people who want to take up the sport and how and how to, especially being a fly shop owner.
00:33:50.530 -->
00:33:53.686How can I make it more approachable and bridge the gap?
00:33:53.686 -->
00:33:55.472I want to help figure that out.
00:33:55.472 -->
00:34:08.355So I am looking at that more closely and hiring guides through my shop, or even, um, not myself hiring guides directly or recommending guides.
00:34:08.355 -->
00:34:09.141That's what I want.
00:34:09.141 -->
00:34:11.887So recommending guides who are approachable.
00:34:12.168 -->
00:34:15.384Not all guides are approachable, so some of them do it with money.
00:34:15.384 -->
00:34:17.889They'll just say my price is outrageous.
00:34:17.889 -->
00:34:27.905So a good way to find a good guide is to find a guide who has a price that is approachable but not too approachable guide is to find a guide who has a price that is approachable but not too approachable.
00:34:27.905 -->
00:34:43.210So I've also found that the price that a guide is asking, if it's too low, people tend to say they're not getting something good, so people tend to under they'll under price themselves as a guide when they're new, but that doesn't mean necessarily you're getting someone who's inexperienced.
00:34:43.679 -->
00:34:55.869And Maine it's kind of neat because it's a really tough test that you have to take, thanks to Flyard Crosby, that you've got to take and that we've kept up with for most of the years since 1897.
00:34:55.869 -->
00:34:57.021And we trust in that.
00:34:57.021 -->
00:35:05.536But experience goes a long way in guiding and I have found for me personally it's hard to get that experience.
00:35:05.536 -->
00:35:21.659I've had trouble feeling confident about guiding so I and I don't know why exactly I think it's more about just how I'm built exactly the things you can ask for in a guide not every guide is instructs well.
00:35:22.181 -->
00:35:23.523I think there's two kinds of guides.
00:35:23.523 -->
00:35:30.465One is the typical guide, I should say, will put you on fish.
00:35:30.465 -->
00:35:36.063They fish a lot, they know their water well, that they're taking you to and they'll put you on fish.
00:35:36.063 -->
00:35:46.177The second kind of guide can do that, but they're a special breed in that they can also teach, and those are the ones I look for.
00:35:46.177 -->
00:35:50.045I would rather have a whole batch of those that I can recommend.
00:35:50.045 -->
00:36:03.585Those tend to be the teachers, actually literally the teachers who are guiding part-time on their summer break, and I know of a few of those, and that's an important thing to ask.
00:36:03.585 -->
00:36:11.512So if you're a hiring guide, ask if they instruct while they are guiding, or how and how long they've been doing it.
00:36:11.512 -->
00:36:12.621Now they can be new at it.
00:36:12.621 -->
00:36:16.771Which is really good is that they'll tend to know if they're good instructors.
00:36:16.771 -->
00:36:23.028If they've been doing it a very long time, they're not likely to be really good instructors.
00:36:23.289 -->
00:36:32.492I hate to say Now, that's not true for everybody, but I find myself, having done it this long, is that I'm a little less patient than I used to be.
00:36:32.492 -->
00:36:37.974Yeah, and so I wouldn't put myself in that category where I've.
00:36:37.974 -->
00:36:51.427Also, I listen to a lot of podcasts and I find the curve that we might be on for doing it so long is that if you do something for a very long time, you forget what it's like to be a newbie.
00:36:51.427 -->
00:37:08.873Yeah, once you're a newbie you learn all these things and then you get good at that and you want to teach people because you remember what it was like to be new, right, but once you get so good at it, you forget those little new things, that how you learn something and how you can phrase something.
00:37:08.873 -->
00:37:13.846Those little, those phrases mean so much you take more and more stuff for granted.
00:37:13.905 -->
00:37:19.534I think, right, it's just like been embedded in your gray matter and it doesn't even occur to you that you learned it at some point.
00:37:19.534 -->
00:37:20.659Exactly yeah.
00:37:20.739 -->
00:37:34.503Okay, those little steps at the beginning, like how to string up a fly rod yeah, you know how to walk through the woods, these these things are kind of coming back to me having not done it for a while, like because I was raising kids, right.
00:37:34.503 -->
00:37:43.257And then it's like, okay, I guided this summer and I oh, I'll notice that, which is good when I'm out with a few people and it's like, oh yeah, I used to teach people to do that.
00:37:43.257 -->
00:37:44.559I got to incorporate that again.
00:37:44.559 -->
00:37:46.965So like I'm rusty and I got to get back into it.
00:37:46.965 -->
00:37:55.681Yeah, there are a few things like that, but, uh, so what to look for in a guide is someone who's been guiding for long enough, but not necessarily too long, right, right?
00:37:56.222 -->
00:38:07.780And it sounds like if you've got, if you can you know, if you're lucky enough to have a shop in your area and you feel comfortable going into the shop, chances are the person that they would recommend would be a good fit, because they'll.
00:38:08.101 -->
00:38:13.106you know, and I do think too, sometimes it's really just about like pushing to have a conversation with whoever it is.
00:38:13.106 -->
00:38:16.159Like don't just like sign up for something on the internet and expect to have a great experience.
00:38:16.159 -->
00:38:22.668Like, if you're concerned about anything or being able to learn, or being able to feel comfortable, then just like get on the phone with the person.
00:38:27.159 -->
00:38:27.280You'll.
00:38:27.280 -->
00:38:28.824You'll be able to tell if you can talk to them and you know.
00:38:28.824 -->
00:38:29.387Then see how it goes.
00:38:29.387 -->
00:38:30.208Yeah, we also live in different times.
00:38:30.208 -->
00:38:31.132Yeah, I'm learning this.
00:38:31.132 -->
00:38:31.954I think this is really cool, is that?
00:38:31.954 -->
00:38:34.523And again, I like to learn, so this is neat, is that?
00:38:34.605 -->
00:38:37.030I think I'm a little unusual for my age, necessarily.
00:38:37.030 -->
00:38:40.525Is that owning a fly shop in this day and age with the internet?
00:38:40.525 -->
00:38:49.882Is that younger people who I want to connect with they do things differently, and then having kids my age in their 20s is a learning through them as well.
00:38:49.882 -->
00:38:51.713Is that they're gonna connect in a different way.
00:38:51.713 -->
00:38:57.467Community means something different to them and community is important to me, but how they do it is differently.
00:38:57.467 -->
00:38:58.996The online stuff is different.
00:38:59.056 -->
00:39:04.476They're learning online, but I also hear from a lot of people, different age groups, is that they get overwhelmed with learning fly.
00:39:04.476 -->
00:39:06.804Is that they get overwhelmed with learning fly fishing online?
00:39:06.804 -->
00:39:15.862Yes, they get overwhelmed with learning fly tying online and there aren't enough resources, there aren't enough fly shops period to go to to say how can I do this?
00:39:15.862 -->
00:39:17.007Do you have classes?
00:39:17.007 -->
00:39:19.094Do you have this Right?
00:39:19.094 -->
00:39:20.880It just there aren't enough of those.
00:39:20.880 -->
00:39:24.771Yeah, so they're kind of stuck with feeling overwhelmed with what's online.
00:39:24.771 -->
00:39:30.802So, again, how to bridge that gap.
00:39:30.822 -->
00:39:41.211I learned a lot of stuff at the Economy Summit, got all kinds of ideas in my head and some of these have to do with different ways that we reach out, and it might be finding a mentor, not necessarily hiring a guide and having that expense.
00:39:41.211 -->
00:39:47.405How can we get some of these people who know about fly fishing and then have them be mentors to some people?
00:39:47.405 -->
00:39:52.463There's a lot of different non-profit groups where they're willing to mentor.
00:39:52.463 -->
00:39:56.090Your TU organizations is just one example.
00:39:56.090 -->
00:39:58.463Tu is Trout Unlimited.
00:39:58.463 -->
00:39:59.465They're all over the country.
00:39:59.465 -->
00:40:06.842Conservation group primarily, most of them fly fish who are members, but there's all kinds of other organizations too.
00:40:06.842 -->
00:40:18.905I keep hearing these words nonprofit all weekend long or all week long and then thinking about there's so many of them out there, but finding these groups women's groups, you know.
00:40:18.985 -->
00:40:19.927Yeah, and a lot of them are.
00:40:19.927 -->
00:40:20.128Like.
00:40:20.128 -->
00:40:45.548You know, I hate Facebook, but there are a lot of Facebook groups too, like if you're looking for somebody locally that you might be able to find, and even if it's I honestly think, even if it's another person who's kind of a beginner and kind of in your boots, but you're both going to bring different things that you've DIY'd to the table, and even if it's just that you find somebody to go fishing with, I think that's a huge plus Buddying up is yeah, it's so valuable, yeah.
00:40:45.768 -->
00:40:53.164And then you'll notice something about what someone else is doing or what's not working and saying, hey, have you noticed this?
00:40:53.164 -->
00:40:54.688Yeah, how can we do this better?
00:40:54.688 -->
00:40:56.092Let's figure this out together.
00:40:56.092 -->
00:40:58.364Yeah, it makes a tremendous difference.
00:40:58.364 -->
00:41:00.610Yeah, I mean my learning curve.
00:41:00.610 -->
00:41:03.003What would it be like if I had people to fish with?
00:41:03.003 -->
00:41:07.494I think I didn't get anybody to fish with for at least that first time I went out.
00:41:07.494 -->
00:41:10.461I was with someone and I fell in the water, got my arm wet.
00:41:11.023 -->
00:41:21.349I don't think I went out with anybody for another at least two years, yeah and to a certain extent, there's a lot of people that wouldn't feel comfortable with that, you know, and it's probably not advisable to get out in the water all by yourself, you know.
00:41:21.349 -->
00:41:27.742And so we say that, yeah, and then you do the opposite because, that's by nature who I was.
00:41:27.842 -->
00:41:28.061Right.
00:41:28.061 -->
00:41:28.422Right.
00:41:28.643 -->
00:41:33.972And then I would say working in the industry and being out on the water, even with other people.
00:41:33.972 -->
00:41:35.556Then I got married and I'd be out on the water.
00:41:35.556 -->
00:41:39.896I never saw a woman in Maine fishing alone for another 20 years.
00:41:39.896 -->
00:41:46.251I think times have changed, they're different, but I used to hear on the West Coast how there were people, women, fishing.
00:41:46.251 -->
00:41:50.438You know how it wasn't unusual on the West Coast during the late 90s, 2000s.
00:41:50.438 -->
00:41:59.032And I was surprised, like that, like why are Mainers like this, independent Mainers, eyes like that, Like why are Mainers like this independent Mainers?
00:41:59.052 -->
00:42:04.250And I find that I would run classes or I'd be in other flash shops that have classes and women weren't attending, or you'd have a woman only class and no one would sign up.
00:42:04.250 -->
00:42:08.559That it's by nature how women tended to be in Maine.
00:42:08.559 -->
00:42:11.817That's changing and I I'm happy about that.
00:42:11.817 -->
00:42:13.161That's definitely changing.
00:42:13.161 -->
00:42:14.947We have women's only classes at the shop.
00:42:14.947 -->
00:42:22.081We have a free women's class once a month, our women's angling group and the whoever, the people that attend.
00:42:22.081 -->
00:42:23.346That change every month.
00:42:23.346 -->
00:42:25.210I've got different people who are coming in.
00:42:25.210 -->
00:42:30.876So there's lots of interest and people are participating, women are participating and it's great to see.
00:42:30.876 -->
00:42:34.527Yeah, so that dynamic is changing for the better, yeah.
00:42:34.929 -->
00:42:35.490Yeah, I love that.
00:42:35.490 -->
00:42:37.996I think that is good and you know, I get it.
00:42:37.996 -->
00:42:46.039I mean, a lot of times I would think I think a lot of women are as afraid of other humans as they are of like nature or mishaps, you know.
00:42:46.039 -->
00:42:52.737And so if you can find a safe human to go out with and you know, then it just gets you into it that much more, which is awesome.
00:42:52.737 -->
00:42:59.909Okay, um, okay, we, you don't have to go here if you don't want to.
00:42:59.929 -->
00:43:05.706But we talked earlier this week about you being kind of newly self-recognizing as as being somebody who's not let's call it neuro divergent.
00:43:05.706 -->
00:43:16.873Yeah, so I'm curious about is that giving you any perspective on why you were drawn to fishing in the first place, or why you've kind of progressed the way you have, or anything like that.
00:43:16.873 -->
00:43:18.396It just it occurred to me earlier today.
00:43:18.396 -->
00:43:38.260I'm like, oh, you know, I wonder if there's anything there that, if you stop to think about it, you're like, oh, this is why perhaps you're learning, perhaps the fact that you're realizing that people don't DIY it the way you do no like because, like, we have these terms now and it's funny, Cause, like oh, on my Facebook feed, neurodivergent thinking comes up.
00:43:39.905 -->
00:43:40.726I'm like what the heck is this?
00:43:40.726 -->
00:43:48.599And I learn now that I think, like this and this is a label, and it's a label I'm now willing to put on myself.
00:43:48.599 -->
00:43:52.054And then I look back, going, oh, that's why I did that.
00:43:52.054 -->
00:43:54.072Well, that's why college was hard.
00:43:54.072 -->
00:43:59.027But yet, you know, elementary, middle school was really easy.
00:43:59.027 -->
00:44:02.576This is what it means to think outside the box, you know.
00:44:02.576 -->
00:44:16.699So, yes, looking back in hindsight, going, oh, all these labels now, well, these labels are actually really easy, you know to see, to read about, because, my goodness, I mean, they're showing up on my feed like every day.
00:44:17.101 -->
00:44:25.413To a certain extent, there's so much talk about it now that, like you, could almost see something of everything in yourself, whether you really are neurodivergent or not.
00:44:25.413 -->
00:44:37.585You know, because I mean, there are characteristics that are positive and negative to everything and to everybody and it's like, yeah, you know it overlaps, but I think you know, as somebody who you you got an official diagnosis at some point right, right.
00:44:37.646 -->
00:44:40.474So yeah, a year ago, I go to my doctor.
00:44:40.474 -->
00:44:42.057I'm like, I'm exhausted all the time.
00:44:42.057 -->
00:44:43.469Well, she's been hearing this for a long time.
00:44:43.469 -->
00:44:50.130She saw a very short story, without telling you everything about me, without oversharing, which I tend to do.
00:44:50.130 -->
00:44:57.987She says I don't know why I didn't come up with this 10 years ago for you, but you have ADD or ADHD, whichever one it is.
00:44:57.987 -->
00:45:01.974And I'm like, no, because my son has it and he's.
00:45:01.974 -->
00:45:06.030We've known this about him and have treated him for for years.
00:45:06.030 -->
00:45:06.972He's now 26.
00:45:07.974 -->
00:45:16.878And he is a special human being and in a lot of ways, and I'm just like but he hated school and really had a difficult time in school, and yet I loved school.
00:45:17.244 -->
00:45:38.233Well, that's just the difference between how I would love to, like I would focus on school and loved to hyper focus when I was in school, and then how he just that wasn't where his focus was going to be and that he would do the opposite and that was a symptom of his ADD.
00:45:38.233 -->
00:45:43.686So we could see it more obviously and you can see it in boys more, and he didn't have the hyperactivity.
00:45:43.686 -->
00:45:48.344And, of course, this is an older diagnosis for him and we know more about it now, right?
00:45:48.344 -->
00:45:53.096So then you say, oh, you know older women being diagnosed with ADD?
00:45:53.096 -->
00:46:03.088And I'm just like, no doctor, you're throwing this around, right.
00:46:03.088 -->
00:46:05.375And she's like, no, I don't just throw this around, I'm like get out of town.
00:46:05.375 -->
00:46:15.432So for the last year I've been really tossing this around and like how much of what I do is this diagnosis and how much of it is not, and how much of it interferes with and yeah, it's like this is who I am.
00:46:15.793 -->
00:46:21.400And this is yeah, a lot of my past has been based upon yeah, I've got ADD.
00:46:21.400 -->
00:46:22.847Well, how do?
00:46:22.867 -->
00:46:26.757you think I'm curious to see, yeah, how you think your passions.
00:46:26.985 -->
00:46:29.894So fly tying, these passions come in.
00:46:29.894 -->
00:46:35.934Why did I latch on to fly tying and why has that been my career choice?
00:46:35.934 -->
00:46:36.606And why fly?
00:46:36.606 -->
00:46:38.693And why, uh, fly fishing?
00:46:38.693 -->
00:46:39.827So fly fishing works?
00:46:39.827 -->
00:46:42.318Because, my god, it's my been, my escape.
00:46:42.318 -->
00:46:44.105I go back to that two-hour experience.
00:46:44.105 -->
00:46:45.106Why did that work for me?
00:46:45.106 -->
00:46:49.597Why does it always work for me and why do I love that experience so much?
00:46:49.597 -->
00:47:09.539Every time I go fishing, except when I had kids, when they were infants, I had a hard time and it's like that feeling of my milk letting down was just so awesome right, I mean and even that, uh, I think was relatively unique in how, how much I loved that experience and and couldn't get away from that when I was fly fishing.
00:47:10.202 -->
00:47:13.007I have guide stories about that which will be in the book.
00:47:13.007 -->
00:47:15.851That got got me in trouble.
00:47:15.851 -->
00:47:34.496But the intensity in which I latch on to things, so the fly tying part of it is more about the intensity that I'll do something, stay with it, and that how quick the gratification is to do one oh, okay, do another one.
00:47:34.496 -->
00:47:35.438How can I fix that?
00:47:35.438 -->
00:47:37.097Okay, do a third one one.
00:47:37.097 -->
00:47:38.346Okay, now that one's looking good.
00:47:38.346 -->
00:47:41.172Now I need to do numbers four, five and six.
00:47:41.172 -->
00:47:42.414They need to look alike.
00:47:43.096 -->
00:47:45.248And I tell people if you want to be a good tire, that's how you do it.
00:47:45.248 -->
00:47:47.666You tie a half dozen and that should kind of be the sequence.
00:47:47.666 -->
00:47:57.827And I realize now I've been saying that for years to people who tie well, not everyone's going to do it that way, they're not going to think that way, and I only do that on the good days.
00:47:57.827 -->
00:48:04.409So on the bad, neurodivergent ADD days is like you know I'm going to do one pattern, it's going to suck, I throw it aside.
00:48:04.409 -->
00:48:05.472I want to pick a different pattern?
00:48:05.472 -->
00:48:10.050Yeah, right, yeah, and, and then that's, and then I'm going to pick a different pattern.
00:48:10.050 -->
00:48:11.253And I'm going to pick a different pattern.
00:48:11.253 -->
00:48:20.009So it did take me a while because, you know, on my not so good days I say that and yet I was tying professionally, within a year of me tying flies.
00:48:20.009 -->
00:48:28.525So people are going to look at my story and say, well, no, it's not really true, because within a short amount of time I was tying really good flies and doing it well.
00:48:29.106 -->
00:48:40.632I also say in my lifetime, of all my careers, because there's been a few as we all have right is that the only thing I ever felt successful at and kept coming back to was fly fishing.
00:48:40.632 -->
00:48:48.213Fly time is that for some reason, I always get the feedback that I need to keep me going, but other things.
00:48:48.213 -->
00:48:55.423So one diagnosis of add is that I'm really hard on myself, right, and just don't feel successful at the other things.
00:48:55.423 -->
00:49:08.856I don't get the feedback that I need, but in, in fly fishing I do, and I met someone else at this conference and in the last year we talked about this more so who has also had the diagnosis of ADD and like, what's the one thing that you do that you feel good?
00:49:08.856 -->
00:49:14.954Fishing, yeah, you know, it's fish, anything related to fish, yeah, and so you know there's a similarity.
00:49:14.974 -->
00:49:18.398Other people come in and it's like I can spot them coming in the door within 30 seconds.
00:49:18.398 -->
00:49:23.742Yeah, right, and I've been really good about not saying you, you know, not pegging them into saying it out loud.
00:49:23.742 -->
00:49:26.291But there's a real commonality here.
00:49:26.291 -->
00:49:28.722Yeah, you know, and not just because it's a hobby.
00:49:28.722 -->
00:49:30.369It's like, well, how many hobbies you have, what?
00:49:30.369 -->
00:49:31.472How many hobbies do you have?
00:49:31.472 -->
00:49:40.541And that you bring them, you bring them, that you have to bring them to a professional level, so to speak, was that you, you bring them to a level where you start selling your work.
00:49:40.541 -->
00:49:45.153So like I started doing watercolors and now I'm selling them, and then right, but my parents were artists.
00:49:45.514 -->
00:50:00.447I know that I justify it in that way yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, yeah, but you know, no, that's interesting that I I was just curious, because I'm like, yeah, I was just curious, so that yeah, there's probably all kinds of other things I could bring up about ADD, but you know they're escaping me right now.
00:50:00.467 -->
00:50:01.110Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:50:02.072 -->
00:50:02.954Case in point right.
00:50:02.954 -->
00:50:03.715Yeah, exactly.
00:50:03.715 -->
00:50:05.099All right.
00:50:05.099 -->
00:50:07.012So a couple more things, I guess.
00:50:07.012 -->
00:50:15.922Getting back to just that beginner's mindset, what would you, what would you say, is like the minimum viable kit that you should try to get your hands on.
00:50:15.922 -->
00:50:18.086To get out on the water, and give it a try.
00:50:18.407 -->
00:50:26.521So I looked at my numbers and what I sold in the last year and I sold more, of course, beginner outfits and I've got one that I sell that I really like.
00:50:26.521 -->
00:50:33.257And then I started thinking about renting and I put out a poll at the summit and I've gotten responses.
00:50:33.257 -->
00:50:41.273How many of you would rent a kit for $50 for one day, so you could try it before you buy it and you could buy the same outfit later on?
00:50:41.273 -->
00:50:49.597So my minimum kit here's what I have to say about that Don't buy from a big box store a cheap kit Because you think, oh, it's inexpensive.
00:50:49.597 -->
00:50:50.565I'm going to try it out that way.
00:50:50.565 -->
00:50:51.346What's even in a kit?
00:50:51.465 -->
00:50:52.728first off, oh, an outfit.
00:50:52.728 -->
00:50:55.351You should call it an outfit so it's a rod, reel and a line.
00:50:55.451 -->
00:50:59.996Yeah, the most important things in that outfit one is your rod.
00:50:59.996 -->
00:51:17.384Equally important is your fly line and most people overlook that Way down the list is your reel, because your reel, when you start off, you're not going to be catching big fish If you are bass, trout or anything smaller than that.
00:51:17.384 -->
00:51:19.251Your reel is really a line holder so you don't have to worry.
00:51:19.251 -->
00:51:23.748If it has a good drag system and it can be very inexpensive because you're not using it while you're fishing, so to speak.
00:51:23.748 -->
00:51:28.487It's really there for when you start your day out on the water, when you end your day on the water.
00:51:28.487 -->
00:51:33.532So you really want a decent, good name fly line.
00:51:33.532 -->
00:51:37.597So if you buy an outfit, usually it's a no name discount line.
00:51:37.597 -->
00:51:45.054So I use echo base or they call lift kits echo lift kit and those retail for 189.
00:51:45.054 -->
00:51:46.458I've never had one come back.
00:51:46.887 -->
00:51:49.679I really like the action on that's got all three, has all three.
00:51:49.699 -->
00:51:56.367That's all of it, and it comes with the case, yeah, you know a good case where you don't have to take the reel off even yeah, so it makes it easier for beginners as well there.
00:51:57.288 -->
00:51:59.771And then waders, if it's cold weather.
00:51:59.791 -->
00:52:01.193I'll tell you I don't sell waders.
00:52:01.193 -->
00:52:03.114Really They've been a problem yeah.
00:52:03.275 -->
00:52:05.217Women's waders especially, I think, are a pain in the ass, miss.
00:52:05.217 -->
00:52:06.418Mayfly is good.
00:52:06.840 -->
00:52:08.061They are sized well.
00:52:08.061 -->
00:52:13.728So I carry a pair of those and I recommend people use the size chart.
00:52:13.728 -->
00:52:15.112The size chart, the size chart is true to what they say.
00:52:15.112 -->
00:52:20.231I can order those and I'm happy to, and I've had a very good response about those.
00:52:20.231 -->
00:52:26.070But other than that, uh, waiters and having an expectation that's here's.
00:52:26.070 -->
00:52:27.195Here's the problem with waiters.
00:52:27.195 -->
00:52:39.625People have an expectation that they're going to pay that much money for a pair of waterproof pants that they should last a long time, and it's a high expectation to have that something's going to hold or keep the water out for that long, especially when you're walking around in rocks.
00:52:39.625 -->
00:52:45.007Right, the most important thing about your waders you need to think about is that it's a piece of safety equipment.
00:52:45.007 -->
00:52:52.969What you have at the bottom of your soul most importantly is a piece of safety equipment to keep you from falling in the water.
00:52:53.128 -->
00:52:56.293Yeah, so if you're going to say you know what, you're right.
00:52:56.293 -->
00:53:01.789I'm not going to invest in waders out of the out of the jump, I'm just going to go warmer weather slash, stay on the shore.
00:53:01.789 -->
00:53:02.956Mostly, what do you wear?
00:53:02.996 -->
00:53:03.498on your feet.
00:53:03.498 -->
00:53:08.791You could still buy a pair of wader boots and then you, you buy the wader boots so that they fit.
00:53:08.791 -->
00:53:11.255Don't go by the number, necessarily, that you normally have.
00:53:11.255 -->
00:53:18.228If you think that you can go in the water and wear fleece, you can layer so that the water is you're going to stay warm.
00:53:18.228 -->
00:53:23.166Waders is better, but if you think you're going to be in warmer water, you're going to stay warm.
00:53:23.166 -->
00:53:34.012Have a pair of wader boots that fit you, with wool socks or neoprene socks and have a either a felt bottom or the rubber bottom with studs.
00:53:34.012 -->
00:53:35.976You know, go with a wader boot.
00:53:35.976 -->
00:53:48.175I wear a wader boot most of the season and I just have a big pair of wool socks and I just bring the fleece or the long wool sock over my laces as if it's a gaiter.
00:53:48.175 -->
00:53:49.619I have no, no issues.
00:53:49.619 -->
00:53:52.126Yeah, walking around in those, my regular wader boots.
00:53:52.126 -->
00:53:54.932Yeah, no, that makes sense, it's a cheaper way to go.
00:53:55.193 -->
00:53:56.476So it's like keep yourself warm.
00:53:56.476 -->
00:54:03.965You get your startup kit and then otherwise just like a utility tool, like a Leatherman or something like that.
00:54:03.965 -->
00:54:07.333A net maybe I haven't fished with a net in years.
00:54:07.333 -->
00:54:08.135See, there you go.
00:54:08.135 -->
00:54:10.969See, that's my whole point, you don't need as much stuff as you think.
00:54:11.170 -->
00:54:12.614No, you need a pair of nail clippers.
00:54:12.614 -->
00:54:17.606Yeah, that's what you can use to clip your line.
00:54:17.606 -->
00:54:25.271Yeah, I really think a pair of clamps forceps is really handy, because everyone's scared of what am I going to do when I have a fish and I say keep it in the water?
00:54:25.271 -->
00:54:32.351And I just take my forceps and I go down to my fly, clamp your fly and just turn the forceps and it comes right out of the fish.
00:54:32.351 -->
00:54:33.512Go barbless.
00:54:33.512 -->
00:54:37.659Those clamps will also clamp down that barb before you fish with it.
00:54:37.659 -->
00:54:39.512Safety for you and good for the fish.
00:54:39.512 -->
00:54:49.851Yeah, so then when you have a fish on, just keep it in the water, go down and, because you've got a tight line, you're going to clamp the fly, give it a turn and the fish comes off.
00:54:49.851 -->
00:54:52.833Yeah, you know, it's a beautiful experience for everyone involved.
00:54:52.952 -->
00:54:57.434Yeah, no, that sounds absolutely Okay.
00:54:57.434 -->
00:55:01.228So I still need to ask you your favorite piece of gear under $50.
00:55:04.273 -->
00:55:04.775Oh you know what?
00:55:04.775 -->
00:55:05.496Or most useful.
00:55:05.496 -->
00:55:07.119I love poly leaders.
00:55:07.119 -->
00:55:12.619So we all get bent about making tying knots and leaders.
00:55:12.619 -->
00:55:14.144What's a leader versus tippet?
00:55:14.144 -->
00:55:19.804For beginners, I'm in love with polyleaders so they come with a loop on the end most fly lines.
00:55:19.804 -->
00:55:22.735If you get a good fly line you know it's good because there's a loop on the end.
00:55:22.735 -->
00:55:25.514So you just learn the simple loop-to-loop connection.
00:55:25.514 -->
00:55:32.373But polyleaders are so supple and nice, they turn your fly over really well so they make a bad cast look good.
00:55:32.373 -->
00:55:33.677They last longer.
00:55:33.677 -->
00:55:37.686And what makes your life easier?
00:55:37.706 -->
00:55:44.166At the end of that poly leader, to make it last for literally years, a number of seasons, you do the hard part of tying on a tippet ring.
00:55:44.166 -->
00:55:47.253So I would say the poly leaders and tippet rings.
00:55:47.253 -->
00:55:54.650And then you, that tippet ring makes it easy so that you can just tie your tippet onto that tippet ring.
00:55:54.650 -->
00:56:01.297If you break off, chances are it's going to break at that tippet ring and so you're always tying new tippet onto that tippet ring.
00:56:01.297 -->
00:56:07.885If you break off, chances are it's going to break at that tippet ring and so you're always tying new tippet onto that tippet ring and it lasts for so long and it makes things easier.
00:56:07.885 -->
00:56:08.911So it is a little bit of a change.
00:56:08.931 -->
00:56:10.001But you are not buying liters like you normally would.
00:56:10.001 -->
00:56:16.940When you're starting out Buying tapered liters for $7, you're going to buy a poly liter put out by Airflow.
00:56:16.940 -->
00:56:21.641Usually there are other companies that have them and you have to think about it a little differently.
00:56:21.641 -->
00:56:29.838So for one second, if you buy a five foot tapered liter, you're going to put five feet of mono on of your tippet on.
00:56:29.838 -->
00:56:31.849That makes it a 10 foot liter.
00:56:31.849 -->
00:56:33.871You could make that shorter if you want.
00:56:33.871 -->
00:56:34.413That's fine.
00:56:34.413 -->
00:56:37.579But you're not tapering down with different lengths of tippet.
00:56:37.579 -->
00:56:41.474You just put your 5X tippet on a 5-foot leader.
00:56:41.474 -->
00:56:42.978It's beautiful.
00:56:42.978 -->
00:56:44.851It does simplify things.
00:56:44.851 -->
00:56:47.891One less thing to think about yeah, you're not out there with a bunch of spools of tippet.
00:56:48.333 -->
00:56:50.746Yeah you know, you got your 5X or your 4X?
00:56:50.766 -->
00:56:55.231Yeah, because this whole conversation is why it would be like oh yeah, I'm not doing that Right.
00:56:55.231 -->
00:56:58.653There's too many things, too much vocabulary, too many things to think about.
00:56:58.813 -->
00:56:59.693I just keep it simple.
00:56:59.693 -->
00:57:09.125Yeah, yeah, you know you just, you really just need a poly leader and one spool of tippet and then, as you use it up or it breaks off, you tie it on, right.
00:57:09.125 -->
00:57:12.990So you really actually, with that system, you only need to know one knot.
00:57:12.990 -->
00:57:17.838Yeah, you just need to know how to tie on a fly, because that's the same knot you would tie your tippet to that ring with.
00:57:18.358 -->
00:57:33.994And I feel like if you get through that, by the time you use all of that, you'll know if you're into it and you'll be sucking up all the information that you can about everything by then, or you'll be like you know what, this isn't my jam and like no loss, no foul.
00:57:33.994 -->
00:57:36.137Yeah, you got two things instead of 15.
00:57:36.438 -->
00:57:45.568Yeah, right, right, if you rent an outfit for 50 bucks right, in which, in my case, if I decide I'm going to go this route, which I think I will a not card is going to come with.
00:57:45.568 -->
00:57:50.190It shows you how to tie the card and I'll probably have a qr code.
00:57:50.190 -->
00:57:56.681It's going to bring you to a video that's also going to show you how to do it, because don't you hate it when you're like I can't, I'm not going to take the time to look at those steps.
00:57:56.681 -->
00:58:01.356Right, right, if someone showed you how to do it, well, it's like someone standing beside you showing you how to do it.
00:58:01.356 -->
00:58:08.469Yeah, so you know, if you have a little bit of some resources to go with it, it would be handy to do that.
00:58:08.469 -->
00:58:08.690Yeah.
00:58:11.168 -->
00:58:13.612Nope, that's a good um, all right.
00:58:13.612 -->
00:58:16.157So how's everybody going to find you and your shop?
00:58:16.157 -->
00:58:16.898So we talked about that.
00:58:16.898 -->
00:58:19.813You're in Gardner and Water Street, but people want to find you online.
00:58:19.813 -->
00:58:20.596Where should they go?
00:58:20.596 -->
00:58:22.068Social media where, where?
00:58:22.068 -->
00:58:22.268Where?
00:58:22.489 -->
00:58:24.153yeah, so I'm in all kinds of places.
00:58:24.153 -->
00:58:47.588I did start right from the get-go having a website, actually, a couple months later having a website selling everything online, I did just rebuild the website, so selenesflyshopcom pretty easy fly shopcom and my name is like, not selene dion, my name is like the greek goddess of the moon um s e oh yeah, yeah, I'm like I had to back up and be like not selene dion.
00:58:47.628 -->
00:58:53.909Oh yeah, yeah, you pronounce it that way yes, but it is spelled differently, so it's like serene, but with an l there.
00:58:53.909 -->
00:58:58.978You go yep go Yep, s-e-l-e-n-e, yep, and then the S because it's plural.
00:58:58.978 -->
00:59:00.199Yeah, I possess them.
00:59:00.784 -->
00:59:00.885S-E-L-E.
00:59:00.885 -->
00:59:04.911So it's at selenesflyshopcom and is it at selenesflyshop everywhere?
00:59:04.952 -->
00:59:06.710else pretty much At selenesflyshop.
00:59:06.710 -->
00:59:10.369Yeah, facebook and Instagram are my two right now, nice.
00:59:12.172 -->
00:59:12.773What did we miss?
00:59:12.773 -->
00:59:13.655What did we not talk about?
00:59:14.717 -->
00:59:15.478Everything in between.
00:59:15.478 -->
00:59:21.367Yeah, I've got a lot of flies, like 16,000 flies.
00:59:21.367 -->
00:59:26.271Oh, you know what All of my stuff at the shop is, almost all of it.
00:59:26.271 -->
00:59:31.375I strive to have American-made if not made-made but American-made, products.
00:59:31.375 -->
00:59:36.737So my flies are tied by Mainers, so they're locally tied.
00:59:36.737 -->
00:59:39.760I know who's tying them, if not tied by me.
00:59:39.760 -->
00:59:43.802I've got six or eight other tires, so on my About page you can see who's tying what flies.
00:59:43.802 -->
00:59:48.289Nice, yeah, you can put an order direct to those tires if you want.
00:59:48.289 -->
00:59:48.730I don't, I'm not about.
00:59:48.730 -->
01:00:01.032You know, everything doesn't have to come through the shop, because I want people to know that it's a real human being and who they are keeping things local.
01:00:01.052 -->
01:00:02.978The byline for the shop is you finally found your local fly shop, even online.
01:00:02.978 -->
01:00:03.659Ask questions.
01:00:03.659 -->
01:00:08.932We want to be approachable to everybody, anybody who wants to be in the sport.
01:00:08.932 -->
01:00:20.606We've got all of our brands, our rods Winston made in America, scottott made in america, and we collaborate with main fly company.
01:00:20.606 -->
01:00:25.135They're right in yarmouth and then we also have echo fly rods.
01:00:25.135 -->
01:00:30.739So echo is not made in america, but they are all designed by tim rage f and they are an american company.
01:00:30.739 -->
01:00:36.172There is no approachable rod in a price point that can get people to try out the sport.
01:00:37.155 -->
01:00:45.956But they all come with a very good guarantee from Eko, get them while they're hot, because maybe there won't be any affordable intro rods in a couple years.
01:00:46.925 -->
01:00:49.311That's what you get, though, from Eko is you get a guarantee?
01:00:49.311 -->
01:00:55.672Is if you get a rod or an outfit from that's cheaper from a big box store you'd get no guarantee.
01:00:55.672 -->
01:01:04.876So if you break it which is pretty likely, happens very easily we can back it up at the shop or right through the company.
01:01:04.876 -->
01:01:06.951From Echo, Same thing with reels.
01:01:06.951 -->
01:01:12.875We carry Lampson and we carry Ross and again two American companies, and they're the most affordable.
01:01:12.875 -->
01:01:17.213So I mean you can get reels and a combination of reels starting at $149.
01:01:17.233 -->
01:01:19.679Yeah, yeah, nice yeah.
01:01:19.679 -->
01:01:26.492Of course we're having this conversation at the wrong time of year, because everyone's going to get all fired up about fly fishing and it's not necessarily the season.
01:01:26.492 -->
01:01:31.666But, it's almost the holiday season it is so if you think you want to get into it next year.
01:01:31.666 -->
01:01:35.670Maybe you can lay down some heavy duty hints.
01:01:35.811 -->
01:01:37.152This is my busy.
01:01:37.152 -->
01:01:38.653This starts my busy season.
01:01:38.653 -->
01:01:40.655Yeah, Because it's fly tying season.
01:01:40.755 -->
01:01:44.280It literally, is a season that's right, the tying season, renzetti vices.
01:01:44.300 -->
01:01:45.942Right, regal vices, yep.
01:01:45.942 -->
01:01:51.036And we've got stuff that's made like we have bases with our logo on them, that are made in Massachusetts.
01:01:51.036 -->
01:01:59.027They're cast we are a Dr slick dealer, I mean.
01:01:59.027 -->
01:02:00.990We've got all kinds of things that you know gifty kind of things.
01:02:00.990 -->
01:02:06.447We've got shirts that are handmade by a print, uh, from a woodblock print that she's designed for us, that are trout.
01:02:06.447 -->
01:02:08.411Yeah, we get like one of a kind.
01:02:08.972 -->
01:02:12.385All kinds of stuff, yeah yeah, that's actually a great point.
01:02:12.385 -->
01:02:18.295Don't let the seasonal affective disorder thing get you down start tying some flies, that's what fly tying is right.
01:02:18.315 -->
01:02:21.460It gets you through the season to get you season off season.
01:02:21.664 -->
01:02:30.815Right, it is all around and I think that's one thing I love about fly times it keeps you in the mind set of getting ready for that season coming up.
01:02:30.815 -->
01:02:53.467Which reminds me is that my husband, eric fromberg, is a really good hobby entomologist and he has a podcast called Angler's Entomology and our flies are set up in the shop like no other shop, which is, all of the flies that we have are cross-referenced to our hatch charts on the wall and we might put them on the website soon, the hatch charts, so the hatch chart for Mayflies.
01:02:53.467 -->
01:03:06.101Then we'll have like a code on it We'll say like AB3, which means in little box, ab3 is going to be that fly that you can look like down on.
01:03:06.101 -->
01:03:12.117Yeah, so it's very cool that we can look at exactly where the flies are down in the bins.
01:03:12.385 -->
01:03:20.728But we can say, okay, what's hatching in June and we've got all the Mayflies that are hatching in June, making sure people give you their email address before you let them have all that great information uh, yeah.
01:03:20.768 -->
01:03:23.335So what we do is anyone that gives us the email address?
01:03:23.335 -->
01:03:31.949Is that, about once a month, we send out a fishing report that includes the hatch chart for that month, so it'll tell you exactly what flies to be fishing with that month?
01:03:31.949 -->
01:03:33.492Yep, in the state of maine.
01:03:33.492 -->
01:03:35.695If not England, it'll cover New England.
01:03:35.695 -->
01:03:37.965Yeah, we can't do the whole country.
01:03:37.965 -->
01:03:39.449We are not like wizards.
01:03:39.449 -->
01:03:42.416Or, yeah, miracle workers, we can't do anything like that.
01:03:42.556 -->
01:03:44.108No, I have to say that keep it local.
01:03:44.108 -->
01:03:44.750I love that.
01:03:45.291 -->
01:03:52.414That's, that's, that's a, that's a big one that's cool salt water flies and bass flies too yeah, awesome, all right, cool.
01:03:52.936 -->
01:03:53.577That sounds good.
01:03:53.577 -->
01:03:55.047Can't think of anything else at the moment.
01:03:55.047 -->
01:03:56.090I know I, I think we did this.
01:03:56.090 -->
01:04:01.371I appreciate your time and all your stories and I'm psyched that I got a chance to meet you.
01:04:01.371 -->
01:04:06.114This is like a dream come true to have you captive here so that I could actually talk to you.
01:04:06.956 -->
01:04:07.557Really, yeah.
01:04:07.557 -->
01:04:09.452Well, I'm going to be captive here more often.
01:04:09.452 -->
01:04:11.146Yeah, because we might collaborate.
01:04:11.166 -->
01:04:13.728Come on, let's do some fishing, yeah, we'll get some fishing.
01:04:13.748 -->
01:04:14.690I've got to get out on the water.
01:04:14.730 -->
01:04:22.539Finally, I've taken too many stupid half-day casting things where I've never cast anything on the water Never, and you're across from the great Andros Valley.
01:04:22.599 -->
01:04:25.001I know With the Wild River Right with the Wild River?
01:04:25.141 -->
01:04:25.382Yeah.
01:04:38.664 -->
01:04:41.599And I watch everyone else catch fish around here and I never have on the Andro, yeah yeah, and another little stream that flows in here.
01:04:41.599 -->
01:04:41.940Uh, yes, yeah, yeah.
01:04:41.960 -->
01:04:43.005Yeah, I know which one you're talking about.
01:04:43.005 -->
01:04:44.228Oh my God, it was phenomenal.
01:04:44.228 -->
01:04:44.929It's a good spot.
01:04:44.929 -->
01:04:46.353Yeah, bang, bang boom.
01:04:46.353 -->
01:04:54.833So if you want to know um Celine's secret spot that we both know about, you're going to have to contact Celine about um coming to the lodge and doing some fly fishing.
01:04:55.193 -->
01:04:57.376Yeah, best days of guiding were here last summer.
01:04:57.817 -->
01:04:58.157Cool.
01:04:58.157 -->
01:04:59.699Yeah, that's what I love to hear.
01:04:59.978 -->
01:05:00.619Come on back.
01:05:00.619 -->
01:05:01.621You know where we are.
01:05:01.981 -->
01:05:03.527Thank you Well, thank you very much.
01:05:03.527 -->
01:05:04.231Thanks for having me.
01:05:04.231 -->
01:05:13.454Pleasure Always Huge thanks to my lovely guest, Celine of Maine.
01:05:13.454 -->
01:05:21.278I'm looking forward to putting our heads together and coming up with some fishy fun opportunities in the new year for all the noobs like me out there.
01:05:21.278 -->
01:05:30.420Head on over to Celine's Fly Shop dot com to check out the huge variety of supplies, equipment, events and experiences Celine has curated for us all.
01:05:30.420 -->
01:05:35.034And make sure to follow Celine's Fly Shop on all the socials as well.
01:05:35.034 -->
01:05:41.835And speaking of socials, I hope you'll come on over to Guides Gone Wild's Instagram or Facebook accounts this week.
01:05:41.835 -->
01:06:00.855I will be fast tracking you to hours of inspiring content you can fill your ears with while you're cooking or traveling this long holiday weekend, Whether you're spending some special time with family or family, I hope you get plenty of fresh air and take advantage of every opportunity to get a little bit wild.
