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Today on The Gilbert Cade Show, we're going behind the cut with Oscar-nominated filmmaker and editor Luke Doolin, the storytelling talent behind They Will Kill You and the Underground Railroad.
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From shaping suspense to turning raw footage into unforgettable stories, we're discovering what really happens inside the editing room.
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Let's give a big welcome to the one and only Luke Doolin.
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Hey Luke, pleasure to have you on the show.
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How are you today?
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Very well, in the middle of work, but um that's a good thing.
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Okay, that's great.
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Um, so every great editor has a beginning.
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When you're growing up, what kind of kid were you were you already fascinated by movies or did filmmaking find you later?
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No, I got I got sort of pretty into it pretty young, um, because of where I grew up, which was in the middle of Australia in the desert, um, really small town.
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And at some point the VHS world came along, and um we were lucky enough to win a VHS machine in a raffle, so we kind of got to because there's not a lot else to do out there that's uh you know of uh a good nature.
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Um I I just got really into watching movies all the time.
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Um quite obsessively and like everything, like anything that was a window to the outside world.
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That's amazing.
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So did you also have a camera or you're just watching and looking at the uh the movies?
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I was watching and looking, and then at some point someone got a VHS camera, and then I pinched it, and then we made a little, you know, um movie on a on an Easter weekend.
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Uh it was an Indiana Jones spin-off um where we had to cut in the camera, but on old VHS cameras, it's really yeah, pretty bad.
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So um, yeah, we but you know that's where I started.
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Just you know, friends and family in the backyard with a camera.
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That's amazing.
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Um, so do you remember the very first movie that made you think I don't I don't just want to watch films, I want to help create them.
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What was so special about that experience?
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Well, in terms of naming films, there were quite a few that flawed me before I understood what the language of it was and why it was doing that to me.
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And then at some point, so like there's like ET and a few films that I vaguely remember that I've found out now were like things like Q the Winged Serpent and um you know early Mad Max films and things.
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Um but when I really started getting into like how's it work in your head and how does you you shoot one shot and then another one and you make them all into a sequence, was probably it was a combination of like around the time of the early 90s of like Robert Rodriguez and um Tarantino and John Woo, that kind of area.
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Um, right, you you notice the editing, but it still works.
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Um and you just wonder how it works and why it works, and it kept me going, uh kept my mind going to all through high school until I could get access to some gear where I could actually try this stuff.
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Yeah, that's great.
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So after trying out, you got your camera, you have the VHS.
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Did you go to school after?
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Or it was all practice like that, and then I mean there was high school, but we had a um a little media class there in year 12 where I had cameras and they had VHS to VHS editing machines, which I thought was like a big step up.
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Um uh and you know, made a little film in my two weeks off uh during high school, but then sorry, what was the question?
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It was uh No, and just trying to figure out what's what's after like you you you you uh you got the camera, you were doing some VHS tapes and stuff, and you made some films.
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Like when when did you get into professionally into it?
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Did you go to school or it was all like a practice uh uh training?
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Um yeah, look, I tried to after high school, I tried to get into film school um at the uh Australian National Film School and um just sadly didn't get in twice.
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Uh the main reason being you're too young or you need some more experience.
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Um so I then just found other avenues.
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I started making coffee on you know film sets and um you know getting to know people and um getting invited back.
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Yeah.
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So I basically found a another way that wasn't film school, and it was uh in hindsight better for me because I I tend to learn better by doing than um theory.
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Yeah, hands-on, yeah, yeah.
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That's inspiring.
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That's very inspiring.
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So most people notice actors or directors, but very few notice editing.
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What was it about editing that captured the imagination and made you choose that path instead?
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Uh well, it's kind of where I ended up when I was just running around trying to sort of be helpful on film sets when I got to Sydney.
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Um the director I was working for, making coffee for and learning from um was doing a TV series that was doing post-production at this place that was not too far from my little house.
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So um I kind of got offloaded there and uh you know, asked if I could fix computers, and I said yes, even though I had no idea what I was doing.
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Um I was part of this, I didn't realize at the time, but it was part of when film went from film to digital in terms of editing.
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Yeah.
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So I I had to transition with these uh tradition uh these filmmakers from the past into the editing world, and I was learning just as they were.
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But I had to make like I knew what I was talking about.
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Um but it all worked out, and they were very kind to me and um got to work with some incredible people that uh you know gave me their time and their attention and looked at things that I was making, and um, you know, we're not shy of a compliment or a you know, that's terrible, you know.
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Yeah.
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So it was it was quite a in hindsight a wonderful thing.
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Um, so I guess that was my film school was yeah learning along with the people who'd been in the business for 30 years.
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Wow.
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So were your parents, um, like your mom, your dad, were they involved in the film industry or music or entertainment industry?
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No, they were they were teachers um and then activists.
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Um but around that around that world, there are, you know, bands and music videos occasionally.
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Um you meet the odd filmmakers, part of the friend circle, but it was such a weird distant thing because it all seemed to happen away from where I was living, which is up in the north of Australia.
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Yeah.
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Um, but they you know, I I just figured they all either didn't come from Sydney, but they work in Sydney, so I had to find a way to get to Sydney.
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Um so eventually did that by the end of high school, and um uh but yeah, the parents were not in they were not in the business.
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Um they were curious about it, but I it was kind of my interest sort of got me there.
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Yeah, that's amazing.
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So we're gonna defer uh take a first break and we're gonna play a game this or that.
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It's a rapid-fire game for the audience to get to know you.
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Um so watching movies at home or going to the theater.
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Oh, going to the theater.
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Uh morning editor or night editor.
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Depends what the time zone is.
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That's a good one.
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That's a good one.
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Uh avid or Adobe Premiere?
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Avid, please.
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Although, look, look, I'm not gonna I'm not meaning that to shit on the other one because there are great things about both.
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Yeah.
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Um, I'm just more fluid in one than the other.
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Yeah.
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Uh comedy or thriller?
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Well, I love comedies, but I've been stuck in thrillers for a long time.
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So I think I know one better than the other.
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Yeah.
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Uh action scenes or emotional scenes?
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I really enjoy them both.
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Um and if they can coexist within a story, uh, that's that's that's heaven to me.
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Yeah.
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Watch the footage once or twice before editing.
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Um definitely once, depending on the schedule.
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Um, but I think you you you're the way I arrange my sort of bins or have my assistant and and uh colleagues do it, is I always want a chemroll as well, so I can just scroll through like a like an old film reel.
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Um and so because when you're on the way to looking for something, you can often find like the thing that you needed 10 minutes ago on the other scene.
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Yeah.
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So I look I like the the happenstance of that just in case.
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Yeah, that's amazing.
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Uh Netflix bench or movie theater?
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Uh movie theater, all the way, thank you.
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Uh indie films or Hollywood block blockbuster movies?
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Um both.
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Depends on the movie.
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Not exclusively, but there are great movies in both realms.
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Uh director's notes and finally uh director's notes or trust your instincts.
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Um again, it's a boring answer, but both.
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Um but then you've also got the studio and all the other people who want their say, and you have to sort of uh chess game your way through that.
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Yeah.
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And finally, film festivals or award shows?
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Uh film festivals.
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They're great because you're surrounded by other people and no one's, you know, in no one's in a race.
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Yeah, yeah.
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That's great.
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Uh we're gonna move on to our next segment: Building a Career.
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Your short film, Merkel Fish, earned an Academy Award nomination.
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When you first heard the news, what went through your mind and how did that moment change your confidence as a filmmaker?
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Okay, that's a good one.
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Um, well, the first thing that went through my mind at like four in the morning in LA time, I was staying on a friend's couch uh who's letting me live there.
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And he wanted me out by that point, but I got an Oscar nomination, so I got to stay a little longer.
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Um was like, oh my god, can you know?
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So we I called.
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Well, I started getting lots of calls from like numbers that I didn't know, and it was all journalists in Australia.
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Yeah.
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Um and I'd b barely woken up, so I couldn't quite figure out, you know, it hadn't landed yet.
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Um it was it was thrilling.
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I think in terms of confidence, it blew my confidence up into a point where it was a bit too much.
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Um because I once you nominate, yeah, you spend six weeks going to all these functions and and um uh you know, schmoozing and stuff, and it's it's great for the ego, but um I realize my ego's not a great deal of help uh in life, yeah.
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So um, and then after that though, because I guess my aspirations for that film were not that high.
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So um when it sort of got to that point, I was a little um my compass was off.
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I had a great time, don't get me wrong.
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Um, but uh after that there was a lot of pressure to like, what's the next one?
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What's the next one?
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And I had other films, like quite ambitious ones, but I'm not sure I was ready for those, and I think the people I was talking to about them could see that, yeah.
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Um, and wisely sort of patted them away.
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And um uh so I continue to sort of work on directing uh potential directing gigs, but I'm quite happy editing.
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Um, it still challenges the hell out of me every day.
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Oh, so you're you're interested to make films also, right?
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Not not just editing.
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Yeah, but the more sort of um uh skill you attain, the more you can, you know, if you see some friends who have a great idea and they're just lacking one thing, you can sort of jump in and try and help that go along.
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So I I kind of like jumping in doing anything.
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Um the last film I um the film I'm editing right now is I I actu I also shot it.
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I um was the cinematographer.
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So it's been a while since I did that, and it's a very strange experience cutting stuff that you were there for rather than being uh objective.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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That's amazing.
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So after an Oscar nomination, people often assume everything becomes easy.
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What were some of the biggest challenges you still had to overcome to build a long career in Hollywood?
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Uh, great question.
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Um yeah, people do come, like you get a lot of attention for about a year.
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Yeah.
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Um, and I think I knew that going in.
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If you get nominated, you got about a year of currency, and then people kind of go, oh, another, you know, then the next year's Oscars come along and it's just it's all over.
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Um, it still you know opens doors, and the film itself, regardless of all that, still functions.
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So I can send it to almost anyone, and there's a kind reaction.
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Uh and that's very valuable.
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I guess the next step for me was my um ambition uh required me to have to move to America just to see what it was going to be like to try it on.
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Um, so I I landed here in about 2014 and uh kind of did pretty well for the first few years, and then the whole, you know, Trump world, like America and the industry and streaming, everything just sort of shifted everything else on its axis.
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Yeah.
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Um, and I don't know that ever anyone's really found their footing yet.
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It's still a bit um, it's still trying to the industry is still trying to find its way.
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Um so it's a bit it's been an interesting journey, yeah.
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Um, of expectations and reality.
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Yeah, yeah.
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So you've edited everything from intimate dramas to action thrillers and horror films.
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When you open a project for the very first time, what are you looking for before making your first cut?
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Um well, I guess you know, before you even end up there, you should have a uh some sort of uh affinity with the script.
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Um in in the best cases, sometimes, you know, there's a script, here's the footage, go for it.
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Yeah um uh but you know the best ones, there's some you're around for sort of the development of the story a little bit and get to sort of have some input and uh yeah, curtail maybe some future problems, um, or at least have a discussion about them.
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Um what was the second part of that question?
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Um what are you looking for before making your first cut?
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Oh, well I look I I I've thought about this question a lot over the years, and um I discussed it with um the great editor Dodie Dawn, um, who I was lucky to work with once or tw uh a little bit here and there.
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Um and she said, uh, fuck all that.
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Just you gotta start somewhere, just start cutting.
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And I was like, all right.
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So when I don't when I don't have a spark that gets me like into it, yeah, um, I just do that.
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I just take that approach.
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Like you just gotta do it.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Um, and you'll circle back and you'll figure it out later.
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Or you'll discover things on the way.
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Yeah.
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Your your newest horror film, They Will Kill You, already has horror fans talking about uh talking.
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Without giving away spoilers, what was the biggest editing challenge in making suspense work?
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Um, well, it's all about the context of the story, and uh, you know, if you've got the the table set for suspense, you can sort of walk into it, but what you need is a a context and then uh an expectation, and then subverting that somewhere in the middle to make it hard, make it harder for the objective to be solved.
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Um so in the in the case of that one, it was uh you know pretty extreme circumstances of a demonic hotel run by immortals who will just you can do whatever to them, but they're gonna can't keep coming.
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Um sorry, that's a that's a cat.
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Um they're gonna make noises.
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Uh so uh look, I mean, I don't wanna there's so many ways to create suspense, and it's all about the context, but um you know uh it usually climaxes in a uh a bloodbath or a um a revelation um or a near-miss.
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And each one of those you need real estate on the front end of context, and then all the obstacles that get in the way of that little chapter of the story.
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Um and I think the the real key to that is just people trying.
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You want to see people trying, you know, screamings, whatever, but like people just really like you know, like like Ripley in a in uh aliens, just no matter what, bone shattering fear, everything's against you, and she just keeps going.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Um, I think that makes for great suspense and um and also character.
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Um but also time, like great suspense needs a bit of time to set up and a bit of time to you know get the first act of that going and then get into the next.
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Like it's it's that's I'm I'm a big fan of Brian De Palma because he takes his time, he sets his chess pieces and takes you with it.
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Um you've also worked on a claim series, the Underground Railroad.
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Editing a limited series is a very different from editing a feature film.
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What did that project teach you about storytelling over multiple episodes?
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Um, well, that was a really that was a new experience for me because I hadn't worked in that kind of episodic television of that caliber.
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And I I think it's a fantastic series.
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Um I only worked on one episode.
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Um I guess the I mean storytelling is storytelling, and it's really about collaboration with the director, and I didn't have a lot of access to Barry because he was shooting for nine months.
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Um so I didn't get a ton of access to him while we were cutting.
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Um but I guess the biggest difference to me was the production model.
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Um I was uh brought up or trained in, you know, it's a feature film.
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You get the footage and it eventually, over the course of weeks and months, makes a will fill in all the blanks of the script.
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Um this has so many chapters and acts to it, you're you're just a a part of it.
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Um and it's kind of hard to know where it's you read the scripts, but to see it all as the next, you know, you don't get to see it all until it's all done.
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Um, so I found that a bit of a challenge, um, but a great learning experience.
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Um and yeah, it's just it's a very different model to feature films um that I'm accustomed to.
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And I'm not I I I think I just prefer feature films.
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Yeah, okay.
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Um, you've collaborated with many incredible directors throughout your career.
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What makes the relationship between a director and editor truly successful?
00:21:24.640 --> 00:21:30.000
I I think it's a synergy, it's a bit hard to sort of um articulate.
00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:38.720
Uh I have worked with a lot of amazing filmmakers, and either I think it's just getting along on a human level.
00:21:38.960 --> 00:21:51.279
Um you might have different ideas and different sort of takes on things, but at the end of the day, you're just it's you and them in a room that you know, with a lot of stuff happening outside the room.
00:21:51.839 --> 00:21:59.440
But um just as long as you can sort of talk through uh have you, you know, have your say and still get on with it.
00:21:59.599 --> 00:22:11.599
Um Um, you know, I I I I you know I haven't worked with too many people who pop their cork who just sort of lose their minds and scream and yell.
00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:17.279
Um I tend not to scream and yell because I don't find it helps that much.
00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:17.839
Yeah.
00:22:18.319 --> 00:22:34.640
Um but yeah, I just think when you can sort of go through that full experience of um all the fear and all the trepidation of making a a project and then do it together and still be friends is pretty uh if you can still be friends at the end, that's amazing.
00:22:34.960 --> 00:22:38.160
Yeah, you're right, actually.
00:22:39.119 --> 00:22:42.559
Many people think editing is simply cutting scenes together.
00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:49.359
What's one thing audience would be surprised to learn about what if film editor actually does?
00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:57.920
Yeah, it's a great one because uh it's it's uh like it's fantastic that there are these platforms now that talk about editing.
00:22:58.559 --> 00:23:02.319
Um I'm not sure you know who the viewership is.
00:23:02.480 --> 00:23:10.559
Um, but editing's really hard to articulate because it is a wordless um art.
00:23:11.599 --> 00:23:14.559
Uh well, I find it hard to articulate.
00:23:15.279 --> 00:23:22.480
It's uh you know, it it's hard to sort of not drift into cliche of like it's when it's done well, you barely notice it.
00:23:23.039 --> 00:23:53.519
Um I I just think it's the apex of everything that was in front of the lens, including actors, costume, production design, goes into the lens onto this bit of you know, film or digital so-and-so, and then it ends up in your lap, and you have all this sound and you have picture and you have act, you have all this stuff that's come to you, and it's a bottleneck where the where the actual language of film exists.
00:23:54.400 --> 00:24:08.799
Um and learning that language has been one of the great joys of my life, and and one that I will never fully understand to the day I die, but like I never want to call myself an expert at anything.
00:24:09.039 --> 00:24:21.759
Um, but um, yeah, I I find that journey uh of of the language of cinema um fascinating, and every project is different.
00:24:23.119 --> 00:24:24.079
That's true.
00:24:24.319 --> 00:24:31.440
Okay, we're gonna take a final break and we're gonna play a game true or false, and it's time to test some facts about your life and career.
00:24:31.599 --> 00:24:33.359
Um, are you ready, Luke?
00:24:33.759 --> 00:24:34.319
Sure.
00:24:36.079 --> 00:24:40.720
True or false, great editing is often invisible to audiences.
00:24:41.839 --> 00:24:43.119
That's what we're talking about.
00:24:43.359 --> 00:24:50.079
Yeah, sometimes true or false, winning awards automatically makes filmmaking easier.
00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:56.000
Um, I think it's good for business, but it doesn't make it easier.
00:24:56.319 --> 00:24:56.960
Yeah.
00:24:57.200 --> 00:25:01.759
Uh true or false, every frame in a movie should have a purpose.
00:25:03.440 --> 00:25:05.920
Uh preferably, yes.
00:25:06.160 --> 00:25:06.559
Yeah.
00:25:06.720 --> 00:25:08.000
Um, yeah.
00:25:08.480 --> 00:25:12.720
True or false, the best editor is also a great storyteller.
00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:14.640
Uh true.
00:25:15.279 --> 00:25:20.480
And true or false, sometimes deleting your favorite scene makes the movie better.
00:25:21.279 --> 00:25:25.039
I've had to experience that quite a number of times, and yes, that's true.
00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:31.519
Uh true or false uh horror movies are among the hardest films to edit.
00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:39.759
Uh yeah, they are because they're like comedies, actually dependent on visceral reactions.
00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:54.960
Um so you've got to it helps if you know your suspense and know how the shape of scenes can go and where the drop points are, where the scares are, and how to execute those.
00:25:55.440 --> 00:26:03.440
Um but that you can drift into a formula with those things, which is dangerous.
00:26:03.599 --> 00:26:06.559
Um, it's really about the the idea behind it.
00:26:06.720 --> 00:26:10.480
And um, but horror films, you know, that's the thing.
00:26:10.559 --> 00:26:20.720
No matter what the season is, whether the industry is good or bad, or people are going to the movies or just watching things at home, horror movies just persist through every season.
00:26:21.200 --> 00:26:26.000
It's it's a strange phenomenon of um human movie consumption.
00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:27.440
That's true.
00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:32.400
Um, true or false sound can completely change how a scene feels.
00:26:33.200 --> 00:26:34.799
Absolutely true.
00:26:35.359 --> 00:26:39.519
Uh true or false AI will replace film editors completely.
00:26:41.920 --> 00:26:48.720
Uh I would like to see it uh uh elicit an emotion out of me, but I'm I'm yet to see that happen.
00:26:48.880 --> 00:26:53.680
And I don't hopefully it's not a problem in my lifetime.
00:26:54.000 --> 00:26:55.279
I hope so too.
00:26:55.519 --> 00:27:03.200
Um true or false, and finally, true or false, the best stories always stay with audiences long after the credit rolls.
00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:04.640
Credits roll.
00:27:05.440 --> 00:27:06.880
Yeah, I agree with that.
00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:23.680
It's the best stories are the or the feeling you have at the end of the story, um, be it a moral or a uh or a just a feeling, the cumulative effect of that film, that can stay with you and can affect decision making in the future, and I find that fascinating.
00:27:23.759 --> 00:27:25.440
It definitely happens to me.
00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:30.960
Um okay, we're gonna move on to our final segment: inspiration and future.
00:27:31.279 --> 00:27:42.400
Looking back at your journey from a young filmmaker in Australia to an Oscar nominated director and award-winning editor, is there one decision that completely changed your career?
00:27:46.880 --> 00:27:53.519
Um there was something I tried.
00:27:54.000 --> 00:28:17.279
There were a couple of things I tried that I were pieces of advice from um either famous editors or people I ran into on my journey, and um I feel like once I applied both of those things on the right movie, it all clicked in my head, and the movie uh turned out to be quite uh turned out quite well.
00:28:17.920 --> 00:28:24.480
Um so those were it was Walter Murch's thing about the blinks, right?
00:28:24.799 --> 00:28:26.480
In the blink of an eye.
00:28:26.720 --> 00:28:34.079
Just you know, being really aware of how people blink, what that means uh to their psychology and the character.
00:28:34.400 --> 00:28:48.000
Um uh and also my my um dear teacher John Scott, who is an Australian or is an Australian film editor, um has done many many classics.
00:28:48.079 --> 00:29:12.640
Um we were doing a movie which is all uh shot in Bhutan in Bhutanese language, um, shot on film, and he sent me like to for weeks and weeks before he got there, I would go to take the film, go to the Tele City on a Sunday, Telecity the thing, bring it back, sync everything up, but it's all in this different language, and it's all shot out of order.
00:29:12.799 --> 00:29:19.119
Um and it was direct directed by a Tibetan uh monk, um, a Tibetan teacher, Rinpoche.
00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:41.119
And uh I by by syncing day and night for weeks and weeks, um not not not understanding the script because it was all in a different language, um, when the director came back and we had it all ready to start, I said, you know, can you can I just have a shot at like what I think the story is and tell me if it's right?
00:29:41.200 --> 00:29:47.680
And I explained it all to him, and he just went, that's basically the story, you know, you get it.
00:29:48.640 --> 00:29:52.799
And and so from from that, that was a very nice moment.
00:29:52.880 --> 00:29:57.599
But then I asked John, I'm like, You don't speak Bhutanese, how are you gonna know what is going on?
00:29:57.839 --> 00:30:03.599
He goes, uh, what they're saying is like the least of the things you gotta worry about.
00:30:04.960 --> 00:30:11.599
And it took me years to figure out that he meant um it's it's about watching human behavior, you know.
00:30:11.680 --> 00:30:18.000
It the language is sort of secondary to how people relate to each other and situations.
00:30:18.400 --> 00:30:30.640
Um I found those two things really helpful in um just paying attention uh to certain subjects and scenes, and it really made a difference.
00:30:32.079 --> 00:30:33.519
That's amazing.
00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:51.759
Um, is there any um so if you could sit beside your younger self on the very first day you picked up a camera or entered an editing room, what advice would you give him in terms of career or um how to make it?
00:30:52.000 --> 00:31:11.200
Um yeah, like anything recommendations or what would you do differently if you uh I'd I'd say just you know, maybe relax a bit, don't be so eager, um and uh maybe stop and think a bit more rather than being impulsive.
00:31:11.440 --> 00:31:17.440
Um also strap in, it's gonna be um it's gonna be a bumpy ride.
00:31:17.839 --> 00:31:19.599
But rewarding as hell.
00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:24.079
What do you mean by relax uh a little bit?
00:31:25.119 --> 00:31:38.559
Well, I think I was so uh full of ideas and theory that I'd come up, you know, come up with on my own that when it got time to apply them, I was like really keen to put them all out there, and it's like it's not right for everything.
00:31:38.640 --> 00:31:43.119
You gotta listen to the project and work within its world.
00:31:43.359 --> 00:31:55.519
And um uh but you know, all young people have to kind of get all their stuff out, and then you can sort of calm down and move on with uh how to do it better.
00:31:55.839 --> 00:31:57.279
I see, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:31:57.519 --> 00:31:58.559
Got it, yeah.
00:31:58.720 --> 00:32:02.559
Um, so technology is changing, filmmaking faster than ever.
00:32:02.640 --> 00:32:08.960
How do you see editing evolving over the next 10 years, especially with AI becoming more common?
00:32:10.960 --> 00:32:12.160
That's a great question.
00:32:12.319 --> 00:32:16.480
I I I I I shudder to think what it's gonna look like in the future.
00:32:16.720 --> 00:32:24.640
Um, I've always fantasized that remember the power glove on Nintendo in the 80s like that.
00:32:24.720 --> 00:32:31.839
You can edit with a power glove and have a sort of um minority report screen and you can kind of just point and do this.
00:32:32.480 --> 00:32:37.119
Um but uh I'm sure it's gonna be something far more insidious with AI.
00:32:37.519 --> 00:32:45.039
Uh but I think that'd be the funer version is to um make it a more interactive or physical thing.
00:32:47.599 --> 00:32:56.640
So, and finally, do you have any projects you can talk about or or anything projects you'd like to be a part of?
00:32:58.720 --> 00:33:08.000
Oh, like actual future projects or just things uh uh yeah, there's there's a couple of um things floating around.
00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:26.240
Uh the one I'm excited about, whether it happens or not, um it's always a great journey, is uh this new film with Joel Edgedon, as uh we did the gift together and spent a lot of time um in Sydney in the younger days making short films and and such.
00:33:26.480 --> 00:33:46.319
Um he's always coming up with new ideas and you know quite compelling um moral quandary movies uh with thriller elements um that somehow sort of aren't um they've got value and they're not just there for exploitation.
00:33:50.240 --> 00:33:59.920
Um they make you think, but also give you all the bells and whistles of a a thriller or a um a tense movie.
00:34:02.480 --> 00:34:04.960
So I'm excited about that, whenever that happens.
00:34:06.079 --> 00:34:07.759
That's great, that's great.
00:34:07.920 --> 00:34:10.079
Um, so look, we're nearing the end of the show.
00:34:10.159 --> 00:34:10.800
That's all, folks.
00:34:10.960 --> 00:34:11.599
Thank you for watching.
00:34:11.760 --> 00:34:13.119
Look, Dolan, everyone.
00:34:13.199 --> 00:34:14.000
Thank you, Luke.
00:34:14.320 --> 00:34:14.960
Thank you very much.
00:34:16.320 --> 00:34:17.199
Thank you.
00:00:01.600 --> 00:00:12.400
Today on The Gilbert Cade Show, we're going behind the cut with Oscar-nominated filmmaker and editor Luke Doolin, the storytelling talent behind They Will Kill You and the Underground Railroad.
00:00:12.560 --> 00:00:20.239
From shaping suspense to turning raw footage into unforgettable stories, we're discovering what really happens inside the editing room.
00:00:20.399 --> 00:00:23.679
Let's give a big welcome to the one and only Luke Doolin.
00:00:24.640 --> 00:00:26.399
Hey Luke, pleasure to have you on the show.
00:00:26.480 --> 00:00:27.519
How are you today?
00:00:27.839 --> 00:00:31.600
Very well, in the middle of work, but um that's a good thing.
00:00:32.000 --> 00:00:33.280
Okay, that's great.
00:00:33.439 --> 00:00:36.640
Um, so every great editor has a beginning.
00:00:36.880 --> 00:00:44.159
When you're growing up, what kind of kid were you were you already fascinated by movies or did filmmaking find you later?
00:00:45.039 --> 00:00:56.000
No, I got I got sort of pretty into it pretty young, um, because of where I grew up, which was in the middle of Australia in the desert, um, really small town.
00:00:56.560 --> 00:01:12.799
And at some point the VHS world came along, and um we were lucky enough to win a VHS machine in a raffle, so we kind of got to because there's not a lot else to do out there that's uh you know of uh a good nature.
00:01:12.959 --> 00:01:17.040
Um I I just got really into watching movies all the time.
00:01:17.519 --> 00:01:25.280
Um quite obsessively and like everything, like anything that was a window to the outside world.
00:01:26.079 --> 00:01:26.959
That's amazing.
00:01:27.200 --> 00:01:32.879
So did you also have a camera or you're just watching and looking at the uh the movies?
00:01:33.359 --> 00:01:44.480
I was watching and looking, and then at some point someone got a VHS camera, and then I pinched it, and then we made a little, you know, um movie on a on an Easter weekend.
00:01:44.959 --> 00:01:55.359
Uh it was an Indiana Jones spin-off um where we had to cut in the camera, but on old VHS cameras, it's really yeah, pretty bad.
00:01:56.159 --> 00:01:59.120
So um, yeah, we but you know that's where I started.
00:01:59.200 --> 00:02:02.879
Just you know, friends and family in the backyard with a camera.
00:02:03.200 --> 00:02:04.319
That's amazing.
00:02:04.480 --> 00:02:11.759
Um, so do you remember the very first movie that made you think I don't I don't just want to watch films, I want to help create them.
00:02:12.000 --> 00:02:15.039
What was so special about that experience?
00:02:16.800 --> 00:02:25.840
Well, in terms of naming films, there were quite a few that flawed me before I understood what the language of it was and why it was doing that to me.
00:02:25.919 --> 00:02:40.879
And then at some point, so like there's like ET and a few films that I vaguely remember that I've found out now were like things like Q the Winged Serpent and um you know early Mad Max films and things.
00:02:41.039 --> 00:03:04.080
Um but when I really started getting into like how's it work in your head and how does you you shoot one shot and then another one and you make them all into a sequence, was probably it was a combination of like around the time of the early 90s of like Robert Rodriguez and um Tarantino and John Woo, that kind of area.
00:03:04.240 --> 00:03:07.919
Um, right, you you notice the editing, but it still works.
00:03:08.159 --> 00:03:21.759
Um and you just wonder how it works and why it works, and it kept me going, uh kept my mind going to all through high school until I could get access to some gear where I could actually try this stuff.
00:03:22.159 --> 00:03:23.599
Yeah, that's great.
00:03:23.840 --> 00:03:28.319
So after trying out, you got your camera, you have the VHS.
00:03:28.479 --> 00:03:29.840
Did you go to school after?
00:03:29.919 --> 00:03:47.199
Or it was all practice like that, and then I mean there was high school, but we had a um a little media class there in year 12 where I had cameras and they had VHS to VHS editing machines, which I thought was like a big step up.
00:03:48.000 --> 00:03:58.000
Um uh and you know, made a little film in my two weeks off uh during high school, but then sorry, what was the question?
00:03:58.080 --> 00:04:10.479
It was uh No, and just trying to figure out what's what's after like you you you you uh you got the camera, you were doing some VHS tapes and stuff, and you made some films.
00:04:10.719 --> 00:04:13.439
Like when when did you get into professionally into it?
00:04:13.520 --> 00:04:18.000
Did you go to school or it was all like a practice uh uh training?
00:04:18.319 --> 00:04:30.800
Um yeah, look, I tried to after high school, I tried to get into film school um at the uh Australian National Film School and um just sadly didn't get in twice.
00:04:30.959 --> 00:04:35.360
Uh the main reason being you're too young or you need some more experience.
00:04:35.600 --> 00:04:39.199
Um so I then just found other avenues.
00:04:39.360 --> 00:04:47.120
I started making coffee on you know film sets and um you know getting to know people and um getting invited back.
00:04:47.600 --> 00:04:47.920
Yeah.
00:04:48.160 --> 00:04:59.199
So I basically found a another way that wasn't film school, and it was uh in hindsight better for me because I I tend to learn better by doing than um theory.
00:04:59.600 --> 00:05:01.360
Yeah, hands-on, yeah, yeah.
00:05:01.600 --> 00:05:02.480
That's inspiring.
00:05:02.639 --> 00:05:03.600
That's very inspiring.
00:05:03.839 --> 00:05:08.560
So most people notice actors or directors, but very few notice editing.
00:05:08.800 --> 00:05:14.720
What was it about editing that captured the imagination and made you choose that path instead?
00:05:15.920 --> 00:05:23.040
Uh well, it's kind of where I ended up when I was just running around trying to sort of be helpful on film sets when I got to Sydney.
00:05:23.199 --> 00:05:35.519
Um the director I was working for, making coffee for and learning from um was doing a TV series that was doing post-production at this place that was not too far from my little house.
00:05:36.240 --> 00:05:45.279
So um I kind of got offloaded there and uh you know, asked if I could fix computers, and I said yes, even though I had no idea what I was doing.
00:05:45.839 --> 00:05:55.439
Um I was part of this, I didn't realize at the time, but it was part of when film went from film to digital in terms of editing.
00:05:55.680 --> 00:05:56.000
Yeah.
00:05:56.319 --> 00:06:07.439
So I I had to transition with these uh tradition uh these filmmakers from the past into the editing world, and I was learning just as they were.
00:06:07.839 --> 00:06:10.560
But I had to make like I knew what I was talking about.
00:06:10.800 --> 00:06:32.079
Um but it all worked out, and they were very kind to me and um got to work with some incredible people that uh you know gave me their time and their attention and looked at things that I was making, and um, you know, we're not shy of a compliment or a you know, that's terrible, you know.
00:06:32.240 --> 00:06:32.720
Yeah.
00:06:32.959 --> 00:06:36.160
So it was it was quite a in hindsight a wonderful thing.
00:06:36.319 --> 00:06:43.600
Um, so I guess that was my film school was yeah learning along with the people who'd been in the business for 30 years.
00:06:44.000 --> 00:06:44.480
Wow.
00:06:44.720 --> 00:06:52.879
So were your parents, um, like your mom, your dad, were they involved in the film industry or music or entertainment industry?
00:06:53.920 --> 00:06:57.600
No, they were they were teachers um and then activists.
00:06:57.680 --> 00:07:05.439
Um but around that around that world, there are, you know, bands and music videos occasionally.
00:07:05.759 --> 00:07:16.480
Um you meet the odd filmmakers, part of the friend circle, but it was such a weird distant thing because it all seemed to happen away from where I was living, which is up in the north of Australia.
00:07:16.720 --> 00:07:17.040
Yeah.
00:07:17.279 --> 00:07:27.680
Um, but they you know, I I just figured they all either didn't come from Sydney, but they work in Sydney, so I had to find a way to get to Sydney.
00:07:28.480 --> 00:07:38.240
Um so eventually did that by the end of high school, and um uh but yeah, the parents were not in they were not in the business.
00:07:38.399 --> 00:07:43.839
Um they were curious about it, but I it was kind of my interest sort of got me there.
00:07:44.240 --> 00:07:45.680
Yeah, that's amazing.
00:07:45.839 --> 00:07:49.600
So we're gonna defer uh take a first break and we're gonna play a game this or that.
00:07:49.759 --> 00:07:52.639
It's a rapid-fire game for the audience to get to know you.
00:07:52.800 --> 00:07:56.959
Um so watching movies at home or going to the theater.
00:07:57.920 --> 00:07:59.439
Oh, going to the theater.
00:07:59.920 --> 00:08:03.040
Uh morning editor or night editor.
00:08:04.160 --> 00:08:06.319
Depends what the time zone is.
00:08:07.600 --> 00:08:08.720
That's a good one.
00:08:09.199 --> 00:08:10.480
That's a good one.
00:08:10.800 --> 00:08:13.439
Uh avid or Adobe Premiere?
00:08:14.240 --> 00:08:15.360
Avid, please.
00:08:15.600 --> 00:08:21.839
Although, look, look, I'm not gonna I'm not meaning that to shit on the other one because there are great things about both.
00:08:22.079 --> 00:08:22.560
Yeah.
00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:25.839
Um, I'm just more fluid in one than the other.
00:08:26.160 --> 00:08:26.639
Yeah.
00:08:26.800 --> 00:08:28.720
Uh comedy or thriller?
00:08:30.319 --> 00:08:33.840
Well, I love comedies, but I've been stuck in thrillers for a long time.
00:08:34.080 --> 00:08:37.360
So I think I know one better than the other.
00:08:37.679 --> 00:08:38.080
Yeah.
00:08:38.240 --> 00:08:41.279
Uh action scenes or emotional scenes?
00:08:44.080 --> 00:08:46.320
I really enjoy them both.
00:08:46.720 --> 00:08:53.519
Um and if they can coexist within a story, uh, that's that's that's heaven to me.
00:08:53.919 --> 00:08:54.399
Yeah.
00:08:54.639 --> 00:08:58.240
Watch the footage once or twice before editing.
00:09:00.000 --> 00:09:04.799
Um definitely once, depending on the schedule.
00:09:04.960 --> 00:09:20.960
Um, but I think you you you're the way I arrange my sort of bins or have my assistant and and uh colleagues do it, is I always want a chemroll as well, so I can just scroll through like a like an old film reel.
00:09:21.360 --> 00:09:29.759
Um and so because when you're on the way to looking for something, you can often find like the thing that you needed 10 minutes ago on the other scene.
00:09:29.919 --> 00:09:30.159
Yeah.
00:09:30.399 --> 00:09:35.039
So I look I like the the happenstance of that just in case.
00:09:36.320 --> 00:09:37.759
Yeah, that's amazing.
00:09:37.919 --> 00:09:40.480
Uh Netflix bench or movie theater?
00:09:41.759 --> 00:09:44.320
Uh movie theater, all the way, thank you.
00:09:45.600 --> 00:09:49.919
Uh indie films or Hollywood block blockbuster movies?
00:09:51.840 --> 00:09:53.200
Um both.
00:09:53.759 --> 00:09:54.799
Depends on the movie.
00:09:54.879 --> 00:10:00.000
Not exclusively, but there are great movies in both realms.
00:10:01.279 --> 00:10:06.320
Uh director's notes and finally uh director's notes or trust your instincts.
00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:10.480
Um again, it's a boring answer, but both.
00:10:10.559 --> 00:10:20.240
Um but then you've also got the studio and all the other people who want their say, and you have to sort of uh chess game your way through that.
00:10:20.559 --> 00:10:21.039
Yeah.
00:10:21.360 --> 00:10:24.720
And finally, film festivals or award shows?
00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:27.840
Uh film festivals.
00:10:28.080 --> 00:10:33.759
They're great because you're surrounded by other people and no one's, you know, in no one's in a race.
00:10:34.080 --> 00:10:34.960
Yeah, yeah.
00:10:35.120 --> 00:10:35.759
That's great.
00:10:35.919 --> 00:10:38.960
Uh we're gonna move on to our next segment: Building a Career.
00:10:39.200 --> 00:10:43.759
Your short film, Merkel Fish, earned an Academy Award nomination.
00:10:43.919 --> 00:10:50.799
When you first heard the news, what went through your mind and how did that moment change your confidence as a filmmaker?
00:10:52.639 --> 00:10:53.759
Okay, that's a good one.
00:10:53.919 --> 00:11:02.879
Um, well, the first thing that went through my mind at like four in the morning in LA time, I was staying on a friend's couch uh who's letting me live there.
00:11:03.120 --> 00:11:08.159
And he wanted me out by that point, but I got an Oscar nomination, so I got to stay a little longer.
00:11:08.399 --> 00:11:13.279
Um was like, oh my god, can you know?
00:11:13.360 --> 00:11:14.960
So we I called.
00:11:15.279 --> 00:11:21.120
Well, I started getting lots of calls from like numbers that I didn't know, and it was all journalists in Australia.
00:11:21.360 --> 00:11:22.000
Yeah.
00:11:22.559 --> 00:11:28.240
Um and I'd b barely woken up, so I couldn't quite figure out, you know, it hadn't landed yet.
00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:33.039
Um it was it was thrilling.
00:11:33.600 --> 00:11:40.320
I think in terms of confidence, it blew my confidence up into a point where it was a bit too much.
00:11:40.799 --> 00:11:59.519
Um because I once you nominate, yeah, you spend six weeks going to all these functions and and um uh you know, schmoozing and stuff, and it's it's great for the ego, but um I realize my ego's not a great deal of help uh in life, yeah.
00:11:59.759 --> 00:12:06.480
So um, and then after that though, because I guess my aspirations for that film were not that high.
00:12:07.039 --> 00:12:12.799
So um when it sort of got to that point, I was a little um my compass was off.
00:12:12.960 --> 00:12:15.200
I had a great time, don't get me wrong.
00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:21.519
Um, but uh after that there was a lot of pressure to like, what's the next one?
00:12:21.600 --> 00:12:22.240
What's the next one?
00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:33.519
And I had other films, like quite ambitious ones, but I'm not sure I was ready for those, and I think the people I was talking to about them could see that, yeah.
00:12:33.600 --> 00:12:36.480
Um, and wisely sort of patted them away.
00:12:36.639 --> 00:12:46.000
And um uh so I continue to sort of work on directing uh potential directing gigs, but I'm quite happy editing.
00:12:46.159 --> 00:12:51.120
Um, it still challenges the hell out of me every day.
00:12:53.039 --> 00:12:55.919
Oh, so you're you're interested to make films also, right?
00:12:56.000 --> 00:12:57.679
Not not just editing.
00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:11.679
Yeah, but the more sort of um uh skill you attain, the more you can, you know, if you see some friends who have a great idea and they're just lacking one thing, you can sort of jump in and try and help that go along.
00:13:11.919 --> 00:13:14.559
So I I kind of like jumping in doing anything.
00:13:14.799 --> 00:13:21.759
Um the last film I um the film I'm editing right now is I I actu I also shot it.
00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:24.000
I um was the cinematographer.
00:13:24.159 --> 00:13:32.159
So it's been a while since I did that, and it's a very strange experience cutting stuff that you were there for rather than being uh objective.
00:13:32.399 --> 00:13:33.679
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:13:33.919 --> 00:13:34.960
That's amazing.
00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:40.080
So after an Oscar nomination, people often assume everything becomes easy.
00:13:40.320 --> 00:13:46.960
What were some of the biggest challenges you still had to overcome to build a long career in Hollywood?
00:13:48.960 --> 00:13:50.559
Uh, great question.
00:13:50.799 --> 00:13:56.799
Um yeah, people do come, like you get a lot of attention for about a year.
00:13:57.600 --> 00:13:58.000
Yeah.
00:13:58.240 --> 00:14:00.559
Um, and I think I knew that going in.
00:14:00.639 --> 00:14:08.480
If you get nominated, you got about a year of currency, and then people kind of go, oh, another, you know, then the next year's Oscars come along and it's just it's all over.
00:14:08.720 --> 00:14:14.720
Um, it still you know opens doors, and the film itself, regardless of all that, still functions.
00:14:14.799 --> 00:14:19.600
So I can send it to almost anyone, and there's a kind reaction.
00:14:19.919 --> 00:14:21.600
Uh and that's very valuable.
00:14:21.840 --> 00:14:32.639
I guess the next step for me was my um ambition uh required me to have to move to America just to see what it was going to be like to try it on.
00:14:33.759 --> 00:14:53.200
Um, so I I landed here in about 2014 and uh kind of did pretty well for the first few years, and then the whole, you know, Trump world, like America and the industry and streaming, everything just sort of shifted everything else on its axis.
00:14:53.440 --> 00:14:53.759
Yeah.
00:14:53.919 --> 00:14:58.000
Um, and I don't know that ever anyone's really found their footing yet.
00:14:58.080 --> 00:15:04.799
It's still a bit um, it's still trying to the industry is still trying to find its way.
00:15:04.879 --> 00:15:10.159
Um so it's a bit it's been an interesting journey, yeah.
00:15:10.559 --> 00:15:13.279
Um, of expectations and reality.
00:15:13.840 --> 00:15:14.879
Yeah, yeah.
00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:20.159
So you've edited everything from intimate dramas to action thrillers and horror films.
00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:27.039
When you open a project for the very first time, what are you looking for before making your first cut?
00:15:29.600 --> 00:15:38.559
Um well, I guess you know, before you even end up there, you should have a uh some sort of uh affinity with the script.
00:15:39.039 --> 00:15:44.559
Um in in the best cases, sometimes, you know, there's a script, here's the footage, go for it.
00:15:44.799 --> 00:16:05.360
Yeah um uh but you know the best ones, there's some you're around for sort of the development of the story a little bit and get to sort of have some input and uh yeah, curtail maybe some future problems, um, or at least have a discussion about them.
00:16:05.919 --> 00:16:11.600
Um what was the second part of that question?
00:16:12.240 --> 00:16:18.000
Um what are you looking for before making your first cut?
00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:38.159
Oh, well I look I I I've thought about this question a lot over the years, and um I discussed it with um the great editor Dodie Dawn, um, who I was lucky to work with once or tw uh a little bit here and there.
00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:41.919
Um and she said, uh, fuck all that.
00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:44.240
Just you gotta start somewhere, just start cutting.
00:16:44.480 --> 00:16:45.679
And I was like, all right.
00:16:45.919 --> 00:16:52.080
So when I don't when I don't have a spark that gets me like into it, yeah, um, I just do that.
00:16:52.159 --> 00:16:53.120
I just take that approach.
00:16:53.279 --> 00:16:54.399
Like you just gotta do it.
00:16:54.639 --> 00:16:55.440
Yeah, yeah.
00:16:55.600 --> 00:16:58.879
Um, and you'll circle back and you'll figure it out later.
00:16:59.200 --> 00:17:01.360
Or you'll discover things on the way.
00:17:01.679 --> 00:17:02.000
Yeah.
00:17:02.240 --> 00:17:08.799
Your your newest horror film, They Will Kill You, already has horror fans talking about uh talking.
00:17:08.960 --> 00:17:14.079
Without giving away spoilers, what was the biggest editing challenge in making suspense work?
00:17:16.480 --> 00:17:38.000
Um, well, it's all about the context of the story, and uh, you know, if you've got the the table set for suspense, you can sort of walk into it, but what you need is a a context and then uh an expectation, and then subverting that somewhere in the middle to make it hard, make it harder for the objective to be solved.
00:17:38.640 --> 00:17:51.680
Um so in the in the case of that one, it was uh you know pretty extreme circumstances of a demonic hotel run by immortals who will just you can do whatever to them, but they're gonna can't keep coming.
00:17:52.079 --> 00:17:55.519
Um sorry, that's a that's a cat.
00:17:55.920 --> 00:17:59.440
Um they're gonna make noises.
00:17:59.839 --> 00:18:23.599
Uh so uh look, I mean, I don't wanna there's so many ways to create suspense, and it's all about the context, but um you know uh it usually climaxes in a uh a bloodbath or a um a revelation um or a near-miss.
00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:35.039
And each one of those you need real estate on the front end of context, and then all the obstacles that get in the way of that little chapter of the story.
00:18:35.279 --> 00:18:42.000
Um and I think the the real key to that is just people trying.
00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:58.480
You want to see people trying, you know, screamings, whatever, but like people just really like you know, like like Ripley in a in uh aliens, just no matter what, bone shattering fear, everything's against you, and she just keeps going.
00:18:58.880 --> 00:18:59.599
Yeah, yeah.
00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:05.519
Um, I think that makes for great suspense and um and also character.
00:19:07.119 --> 00:19:17.680
Um but also time, like great suspense needs a bit of time to set up and a bit of time to you know get the first act of that going and then get into the next.
00:19:17.759 --> 00:19:26.720
Like it's it's that's I'm I'm a big fan of Brian De Palma because he takes his time, he sets his chess pieces and takes you with it.
00:19:29.200 --> 00:19:33.119
Um you've also worked on a claim series, the Underground Railroad.
00:19:33.519 --> 00:19:37.599
Editing a limited series is a very different from editing a feature film.
00:19:37.759 --> 00:19:42.640
What did that project teach you about storytelling over multiple episodes?
00:19:44.160 --> 00:19:52.240
Um, well, that was a really that was a new experience for me because I hadn't worked in that kind of episodic television of that caliber.
00:19:52.400 --> 00:19:55.119
And I I think it's a fantastic series.
00:19:55.279 --> 00:19:58.319
Um I only worked on one episode.
00:19:58.559 --> 00:20:09.519
Um I guess the I mean storytelling is storytelling, and it's really about collaboration with the director, and I didn't have a lot of access to Barry because he was shooting for nine months.
00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:14.720
Um so I didn't get a ton of access to him while we were cutting.
00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:19.359
Um but I guess the biggest difference to me was the production model.
00:20:19.839 --> 00:20:25.119
Um I was uh brought up or trained in, you know, it's a feature film.
00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:32.640
You get the footage and it eventually, over the course of weeks and months, makes a will fill in all the blanks of the script.
00:20:33.039 --> 00:20:38.720
Um this has so many chapters and acts to it, you're you're just a a part of it.
00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:48.000
Um and it's kind of hard to know where it's you read the scripts, but to see it all as the next, you know, you don't get to see it all until it's all done.
00:20:48.640 --> 00:20:54.799
Um, so I found that a bit of a challenge, um, but a great learning experience.
00:20:55.039 --> 00:21:04.079
Um and yeah, it's just it's a very different model to feature films um that I'm accustomed to.
00:21:04.799 --> 00:21:08.000
And I'm not I I I think I just prefer feature films.
00:21:08.319 --> 00:21:10.720
Yeah, okay.
00:21:10.960 --> 00:21:15.200
Um, you've collaborated with many incredible directors throughout your career.
00:21:15.440 --> 00:21:20.480
What makes the relationship between a director and editor truly successful?
00:21:24.640 --> 00:21:30.000
I I think it's a synergy, it's a bit hard to sort of um articulate.
00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:38.720
Uh I have worked with a lot of amazing filmmakers, and either I think it's just getting along on a human level.
00:21:38.960 --> 00:21:51.279
Um you might have different ideas and different sort of takes on things, but at the end of the day, you're just it's you and them in a room that you know, with a lot of stuff happening outside the room.
00:21:51.839 --> 00:21:59.440
But um just as long as you can sort of talk through uh have you, you know, have your say and still get on with it.
00:21:59.599 --> 00:22:11.599
Um Um, you know, I I I I you know I haven't worked with too many people who pop their cork who just sort of lose their minds and scream and yell.
00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:17.279
Um I tend not to scream and yell because I don't find it helps that much.
00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:17.839
Yeah.
00:22:18.319 --> 00:22:34.640
Um but yeah, I just think when you can sort of go through that full experience of um all the fear and all the trepidation of making a a project and then do it together and still be friends is pretty uh if you can still be friends at the end, that's amazing.
00:22:34.960 --> 00:22:38.160
Yeah, you're right, actually.
00:22:39.119 --> 00:22:42.559
Many people think editing is simply cutting scenes together.
00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:49.359
What's one thing audience would be surprised to learn about what if film editor actually does?
00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:57.920
Yeah, it's a great one because uh it's it's uh like it's fantastic that there are these platforms now that talk about editing.
00:22:58.559 --> 00:23:02.319
Um I'm not sure you know who the viewership is.
00:23:02.480 --> 00:23:10.559
Um, but editing's really hard to articulate because it is a wordless um art.
00:23:11.599 --> 00:23:14.559
Uh well, I find it hard to articulate.
00:23:15.279 --> 00:23:22.480
It's uh you know, it it's hard to sort of not drift into cliche of like it's when it's done well, you barely notice it.
00:23:23.039 --> 00:23:53.519
Um I I just think it's the apex of everything that was in front of the lens, including actors, costume, production design, goes into the lens onto this bit of you know, film or digital so-and-so, and then it ends up in your lap, and you have all this sound and you have picture and you have act, you have all this stuff that's come to you, and it's a bottleneck where the where the actual language of film exists.
00:23:54.400 --> 00:24:08.799
Um and learning that language has been one of the great joys of my life, and and one that I will never fully understand to the day I die, but like I never want to call myself an expert at anything.
00:24:09.039 --> 00:24:21.759
Um, but um, yeah, I I find that journey uh of of the language of cinema um fascinating, and every project is different.
00:24:23.119 --> 00:24:24.079
That's true.
00:24:24.319 --> 00:24:31.440
Okay, we're gonna take a final break and we're gonna play a game true or false, and it's time to test some facts about your life and career.
00:24:31.599 --> 00:24:33.359
Um, are you ready, Luke?
00:24:33.759 --> 00:24:34.319
Sure.
00:24:36.079 --> 00:24:40.720
True or false, great editing is often invisible to audiences.
00:24:41.839 --> 00:24:43.119
That's what we're talking about.
00:24:43.359 --> 00:24:50.079
Yeah, sometimes true or false, winning awards automatically makes filmmaking easier.
00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:56.000
Um, I think it's good for business, but it doesn't make it easier.
00:24:56.319 --> 00:24:56.960
Yeah.
00:24:57.200 --> 00:25:01.759
Uh true or false, every frame in a movie should have a purpose.
00:25:03.440 --> 00:25:05.920
Uh preferably, yes.
00:25:06.160 --> 00:25:06.559
Yeah.
00:25:06.720 --> 00:25:08.000
Um, yeah.
00:25:08.480 --> 00:25:12.720
True or false, the best editor is also a great storyteller.
00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:14.640
Uh true.
00:25:15.279 --> 00:25:20.480
And true or false, sometimes deleting your favorite scene makes the movie better.
00:25:21.279 --> 00:25:25.039
I've had to experience that quite a number of times, and yes, that's true.
00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:31.519
Uh true or false uh horror movies are among the hardest films to edit.
00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:39.759
Uh yeah, they are because they're like comedies, actually dependent on visceral reactions.
00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:54.960
Um so you've got to it helps if you know your suspense and know how the shape of scenes can go and where the drop points are, where the scares are, and how to execute those.
00:25:55.440 --> 00:26:03.440
Um but that you can drift into a formula with those things, which is dangerous.
00:26:03.599 --> 00:26:06.559
Um, it's really about the the idea behind it.
00:26:06.720 --> 00:26:10.480
And um, but horror films, you know, that's the thing.
00:26:10.559 --> 00:26:20.720
No matter what the season is, whether the industry is good or bad, or people are going to the movies or just watching things at home, horror movies just persist through every season.
00:26:21.200 --> 00:26:26.000
It's it's a strange phenomenon of um human movie consumption.
00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:27.440
That's true.
00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:32.400
Um, true or false sound can completely change how a scene feels.
00:26:33.200 --> 00:26:34.799
Absolutely true.
00:26:35.359 --> 00:26:39.519
Uh true or false AI will replace film editors completely.
00:26:41.920 --> 00:26:48.720
Uh I would like to see it uh uh elicit an emotion out of me, but I'm I'm yet to see that happen.
00:26:48.880 --> 00:26:53.680
And I don't hopefully it's not a problem in my lifetime.
00:26:54.000 --> 00:26:55.279
I hope so too.
00:26:55.519 --> 00:27:03.200
Um true or false, and finally, true or false, the best stories always stay with audiences long after the credit rolls.
00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:04.640
Credits roll.
00:27:05.440 --> 00:27:06.880
Yeah, I agree with that.
00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:23.680
It's the best stories are the or the feeling you have at the end of the story, um, be it a moral or a uh or a just a feeling, the cumulative effect of that film, that can stay with you and can affect decision making in the future, and I find that fascinating.
00:27:23.759 --> 00:27:25.440
It definitely happens to me.
00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:30.960
Um okay, we're gonna move on to our final segment: inspiration and future.
00:27:31.279 --> 00:27:42.400
Looking back at your journey from a young filmmaker in Australia to an Oscar nominated director and award-winning editor, is there one decision that completely changed your career?
00:27:46.880 --> 00:27:53.519
Um there was something I tried.
00:27:54.000 --> 00:28:17.279
There were a couple of things I tried that I were pieces of advice from um either famous editors or people I ran into on my journey, and um I feel like once I applied both of those things on the right movie, it all clicked in my head, and the movie uh turned out to be quite uh turned out quite well.
00:28:17.920 --> 00:28:24.480
Um so those were it was Walter Murch's thing about the blinks, right?
00:28:24.799 --> 00:28:26.480
In the blink of an eye.
00:28:26.720 --> 00:28:34.079
Just you know, being really aware of how people blink, what that means uh to their psychology and the character.
00:28:34.400 --> 00:28:48.000
Um uh and also my my um dear teacher John Scott, who is an Australian or is an Australian film editor, um has done many many classics.
00:28:48.079 --> 00:29:12.640
Um we were doing a movie which is all uh shot in Bhutan in Bhutanese language, um, shot on film, and he sent me like to for weeks and weeks before he got there, I would go to take the film, go to the Tele City on a Sunday, Telecity the thing, bring it back, sync everything up, but it's all in this different language, and it's all shot out of order.
00:29:12.799 --> 00:29:19.119
Um and it was direct directed by a Tibetan uh monk, um, a Tibetan teacher, Rinpoche.
00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:41.119
And uh I by by syncing day and night for weeks and weeks, um not not not understanding the script because it was all in a different language, um, when the director came back and we had it all ready to start, I said, you know, can you can I just have a shot at like what I think the story is and tell me if it's right?
00:29:41.200 --> 00:29:47.680
And I explained it all to him, and he just went, that's basically the story, you know, you get it.
00:29:48.640 --> 00:29:52.799
And and so from from that, that was a very nice moment.
00:29:52.880 --> 00:29:57.599
But then I asked John, I'm like, You don't speak Bhutanese, how are you gonna know what is going on?
00:29:57.839 --> 00:30:03.599
He goes, uh, what they're saying is like the least of the things you gotta worry about.
00:30:04.960 --> 00:30:11.599
And it took me years to figure out that he meant um it's it's about watching human behavior, you know.
00:30:11.680 --> 00:30:18.000
It the language is sort of secondary to how people relate to each other and situations.
00:30:18.400 --> 00:30:30.640
Um I found those two things really helpful in um just paying attention uh to certain subjects and scenes, and it really made a difference.
00:30:32.079 --> 00:30:33.519
That's amazing.
00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:51.759
Um, is there any um so if you could sit beside your younger self on the very first day you picked up a camera or entered an editing room, what advice would you give him in terms of career or um how to make it?
00:30:52.000 --> 00:31:11.200
Um yeah, like anything recommendations or what would you do differently if you uh I'd I'd say just you know, maybe relax a bit, don't be so eager, um and uh maybe stop and think a bit more rather than being impulsive.
00:31:11.440 --> 00:31:17.440
Um also strap in, it's gonna be um it's gonna be a bumpy ride.
00:31:17.839 --> 00:31:19.599
But rewarding as hell.
00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:24.079
What do you mean by relax uh a little bit?
00:31:25.119 --> 00:31:38.559
Well, I think I was so uh full of ideas and theory that I'd come up, you know, come up with on my own that when it got time to apply them, I was like really keen to put them all out there, and it's like it's not right for everything.
00:31:38.640 --> 00:31:43.119
You gotta listen to the project and work within its world.
00:31:43.359 --> 00:31:55.519
And um uh but you know, all young people have to kind of get all their stuff out, and then you can sort of calm down and move on with uh how to do it better.
00:31:55.839 --> 00:31:57.279
I see, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:31:57.519 --> 00:31:58.559
Got it, yeah.
00:31:58.720 --> 00:32:02.559
Um, so technology is changing, filmmaking faster than ever.
00:32:02.640 --> 00:32:08.960
How do you see editing evolving over the next 10 years, especially with AI becoming more common?
00:32:10.960 --> 00:32:12.160
That's a great question.
00:32:12.319 --> 00:32:16.480
I I I I I shudder to think what it's gonna look like in the future.
00:32:16.720 --> 00:32:24.640
Um, I've always fantasized that remember the power glove on Nintendo in the 80s like that.
00:32:24.720 --> 00:32:31.839
You can edit with a power glove and have a sort of um minority report screen and you can kind of just point and do this.
00:32:32.480 --> 00:32:37.119
Um but uh I'm sure it's gonna be something far more insidious with AI.
00:32:37.519 --> 00:32:45.039
Uh but I think that'd be the funer version is to um make it a more interactive or physical thing.
00:32:47.599 --> 00:32:56.640
So, and finally, do you have any projects you can talk about or or anything projects you'd like to be a part of?
00:32:58.720 --> 00:33:08.000
Oh, like actual future projects or just things uh uh yeah, there's there's a couple of um things floating around.
00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:26.240
Uh the one I'm excited about, whether it happens or not, um it's always a great journey, is uh this new film with Joel Edgedon, as uh we did the gift together and spent a lot of time um in Sydney in the younger days making short films and and such.
00:33:26.480 --> 00:33:46.319
Um he's always coming up with new ideas and you know quite compelling um moral quandary movies uh with thriller elements um that somehow sort of aren't um they've got value and they're not just there for exploitation.
00:33:50.240 --> 00:33:59.920
Um they make you think, but also give you all the bells and whistles of a a thriller or a um a tense movie.
00:34:02.480 --> 00:34:04.960
So I'm excited about that, whenever that happens.
00:34:06.079 --> 00:34:07.759
That's great, that's great.
00:34:07.920 --> 00:34:10.079
Um, so look, we're nearing the end of the show.
00:34:10.159 --> 00:34:10.800
That's all, folks.
00:34:10.960 --> 00:34:11.599
Thank you for watching.
00:34:11.760 --> 00:34:13.119
Look, Dolan, everyone.
00:34:13.199 --> 00:34:14.000
Thank you, Luke.
00:34:14.320 --> 00:34:14.960
Thank you very much.
00:34:16.320 --> 00:34:17.199
Thank you.
