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Hey, everybody, and welcome to
life as gamble. I am very pleased
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today that my guest is the legendary
gambler Billy Baxter. Over the last thirteen
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years, I've done over six hundred
episodes of Gambling with an Edge, and
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when people ask me who are your
favorite guests, top of my list has
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always been Billy Baxter, just because
he knows how to tell a story and
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he's had a fascinating life. Also, I just wanted to say that all
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professional gamblers owe him a huge debt
because he is the one who fought the
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case with the Irs Baxter versus the
United States allowing gambling as a profession,
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and the court ruled in Baxter's favor
that gambling earnings could be considered earned income.
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And because otherwise professional gambling would be
a night mere tax wise, I
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mean, it's already kind of a
nightmare, but you know what I mean.
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So, Billy is now eighty three
and last year he was inducted into
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the Sports Betting Hall of Fame and
an amazing accomplishment in the World Series of
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Poker Senior event, out of almost
eight two hundred entries, he came in
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second, and you know, just
because it's a senior event. These are
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not doddering old old men. I
mean, there are a lot of really
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strong players that were in this event. And for him to come in second,
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he is a seven time World Series
of Poker bracelet winner, and that
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would have been his eighth. But
anyway, an amazing accomplishment at eighty three.
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Because these World Series of Poker events
are really a lot of it is
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endurance, So kudos to Billy for
that. Anyway, now here's the show.
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Billy. I'm so happy you're here
and we can talk. Well,
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it's good to be here. How
you doing good? Good? Real?
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Well? So I want to talk
about golf and about boxing. But before
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we get to that, I just
recently learned that you were actually on a
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chain gang. And for our younger
audience who doesn't know what a chain gang
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is, would you explain what that
means. Well, I don't know if
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this is one of my best stories, but I'll tell it anyway, Benji
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asked. Back in my early day, before I came to Las Vegas,
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this is prior to nineteen seventy five, I actually had a little gambling casino
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in Georgia, which was very illegal. We had craps, roulette, blackjack,
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just like Las Vegas, and we
were open all night every night,
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and it was very much against the
law also. But at any rate,
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this is any of the stories I
tell you all verifiable. You can get
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your nineteen eighty four issue of Sports
Illustrated. The front cover I think has
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Alan Trammel on the front issues to
May of nineteen eighty four, and there's
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a ten page story in there that
will tell you about the FBI and the
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Georgia Bureau of Investigation knocking the door
down of my casino, which was during
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the Master's golf tumber. This is
in Augusta, Georgia and famous football player
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Serny Jergison had the craps in his
hand when the door when the doors came
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down. But anyway, out of
that, I wound up getting a year
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in jail, and I was able
to run that concurrently with federal book baking
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cases that I had at the time, and the government they just wanted a
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conviction, so they allowed me to
run the state case with the federal case,
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so I was able to do the
time in my hometown in the prison
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there. And this was on a
road called Tobacco Road in Augusta, Georgia,
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And in those days, they had
a chain gang, just like they
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do you see in the movies from
years ago. They had the prisoners where
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their feet were tied to the together, and they had one guard at the
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front with a shotgun and one guard
at the back with a shotgun, and
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the truck was loaded with the hound
dogs ready to chase anybody got away.
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Well, when I first went to
prison, that was where I was headed.
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But the good news about the stories, I wound up not having to
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go out every day on the actual
chain gang and do that because I had
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well i'll just say I had a
little help and I was able to get
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a job in the parts department,
which is where we fixed the trucks and
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all that took the prisoners out to
work on the chain game. So I
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avoided the actual swing blade duty.
So the swing blade you would be chopping,
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Yeah, you chopped grass on the
side of the road, picked up
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trash and whatever. The twenty or
so prisoners that were tied together and that
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went on. I mean, that's
just the way the prison system was back
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in those days. Is we're not
talking about a long time ago. This
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is in nineteen seventy five in Augusta, Georgia. It's amazing it was still
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going on then. Yes, great
movie about that for anybody who hasn't seen
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it, there's a great movie with
Paul Newman called Cool Handling Lucas exactly.
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But okay, So anyway, then
I wanted to get into boxing because I
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understand you used to manage boxers.
Is that right? That's correct? Yes,
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how did that happen? Well,
that was because of my gambling activity.
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I would always better. I like
to bet on boxing. That was
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one of the things that I thought
I did best was watching sporting events and
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being able to determine which team was
better or whether it be basketball or football
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or whatever it was. And the
same thing applied to boxing. So in
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order to bet successfully, in my
mind, I would go to the gyms
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to watch people train when they were
here for big fights and all that I
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was interested in betting on. And
one day I was in the gym and
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the young kid named Roger Mayweather came
to town. He got through out of
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the Olympics and right before the Olympic
trials for a bad attitude, and he's
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in the gym and he's beating up
all these pretty good fighters that I knew
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about, and I said, well, who is that kid, and they
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said, well, that's Roger Maywell. He just got threes out in town
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here looking for a manager, and
I had never did that before. So
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Steve after his workout and talked to
him and we came to an agreement and
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I became his manager, and thirteen
fights later, after having no pro experience,
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in his thirteenth fight, I put
him in for the world championship.
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He fought a guy named Sammy Serrano
and San Juan Puerto Rico and Roberta Komeni
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Stadium before forty thousand fans, and
he won the world title. The guy
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had lost a fight in ten years. He knocked him out and there I
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think it was eighth or ninth round. Wow. That's how I got in
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the business. And then from there
I became Bruce Curry's manager, who went
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on to become the welterweight Champion,
Junior welterweight Champion of the World. And
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my last fighter was Vernon Forrest,
who fought Shane Mosley twice and was our
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represented in the Olympic trials and he
was became wel toweight champion of the world.
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So I had three fighters. I
never had a fight to lose a
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fight out of seventy five fight.
It's the first seventy five fights they ever
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had, and they all three became
world champion without ever losing a fight.
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Wow, Now did you have to
deal with people like Don King to set
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these matches? Was? Don King
was our promoter for the for Mayweather's first
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title offense I took. I went
to see him because it was very difficult
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to get raided back in those days. You almost had to buy your rating
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and that sort of thing, or
have somebody to push you to get in
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there. So I approached Don about
Roger and told him that you know,
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this kid is exceptional. He can
beat anybody at one hundred and thirty pounds.
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And he said, we really you
don't you think you need to give
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him a few more fights. He's
only had thirteen fights. I said,
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you get him to fight, I
promise you he'll win. And he says,
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well, you got a pretty good
reputation I understand in the gambling world
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for picking winners and all. They
says, So I'm gonna give you a
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chance. I'm gonna get you this
fight. All you got to do is
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sign this promotional agreement, so he
became our promoter. Ah, and did
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he end up screwing you? I
mean, I thought that was his m
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to say Don's still alive. I
think so. Well. Actually I like
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Don quite a bit, but I
think that him and Aaron both fallen just
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under the same umbrella. They were
like one A and one B. They
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weren't entry. I don't think anyone
was. They both had not the greatest
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effort reputations for treating the fighters that
well, but they both were great promoters.
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So the controversy came with the Sugar
Ray Leonard Hagler fight. Was it?
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Yeah, that was a fight that
was in Vegas, in one of
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the fights that I bet about three
hundred thousand on this fight. It taken
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like whatever it was I forgot.
I think it was around three to one
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because Lenyard had been off for about
a year or so and Hagler was like
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pretty well thought of, is pretty
much unbeatable at middleweight, and Lenyard was
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moving up from forty seven pounds after
being off about a year, a year
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and a half maybe longer that I
just don't recall exactly. And somehow with
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my deductions, I came up.
I thought he could win this fight,
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so I made a pretty large bed
on the fight, and of course we
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won a very close decision, which
Bob Aram was the promoter at the time,
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and he knew that if Hagler lost
and Leonard won, that Leonard's trainer
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would not let him be the promoter
for the next fight. I'm kind of
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explaining how this thick story came about. And AERM at the time was writing
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a story for the Las Vegas Sun
on Sunday, and the fight didn't get
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over till like nearly eleven o'clock at
night and the Sunday morning paper which come
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out at like one one thirty in
the morning. Somehow another he managed to
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race out of the stadium down to
the Sun and my picture wound up in
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the paper for uh having fixed the
Hagler Leonard fight. And of course that
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was later through a grand jury investigation
everything else. Who was determined that I
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didn't have anything to do with it. But I actually I should have sued
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Aram, but at the time I'm
just not the sue in type, so
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I just let it go. Yeah. Well, and and it might have
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been difficult to prove it was Aram
that that said it or that was it
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wasn't too too difficult, but we
just let it go. So did you
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like the boxing business? I actually
loved the boxing. But we went all
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over the world. I went to
Japan with Bruce Curry. We fought an
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undefeated fighter in Japan, and uh
just this king was our promoter with that
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fight. Also, Aram was my
promoter with Vernon Forrest and but anyway,
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we went to Japan and when we
got off the plane, this kids we
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were fighting. If we were led
to believe, it'd be a pretty easy
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fact. But when we got off
the plane, the first thing we saw
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was his picture on the in the
airport going out, they had about thirty
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newspaper people greet us at the airport, which is pretty unusual. And I
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see this kid's picture on the wall
that says it's hit Sue Akaya, which
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was his name, and he's on
the American Express card that says don't leave
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home without it. So I said, you know, this kid must be
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pretty popular over here. We wound
up fighting in his college gymnasium. It
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was a college student and it was
pretty intimidating. They turned all the heat
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off. It was in July and
people were actually was so hot they were
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ringing the dresses out and squeezing water
out of them at the fight. Just
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your dress that you had on,
that's how hot it was. Wow.
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Wow. Needless say, Bruce did
come back and win that fighting about the
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eighth round by not fifth, well
I'm not sure the round, but he
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won by knockout because he was losing
every round up there. Oh wow,
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huh why'd you Why did you end
up getting out of the boxing business.
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Well, that's ah, that's the
reason I got this is I'll tell a
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quick bad beat. This is this
is a real bad beat story. H
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Vernon was eighteen and oh with arom
and he's getting ready to participate with the
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world title fight I'm right before that, and he was approached by some black
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attorneys I believe they were out of
I believe they were black out of Atlanta
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that talked to Vernon about if he
could get away from that guy that's managing
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you, we'll give give you quite
a bit of money and you can,
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uh, we'll do a lot of
things for you that he's not doing that.
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So he and he's from my hometown. That's how we became. I
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had helped him quite a bit through
the amateur and all, and insisted that
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he lead stay in the amateurs and
go to the Olympics, which he did.
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He beat Mosley in the Olympic trials
to go Olympics. Also he lost
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in the Olympics, but you know, he probably should have won, but
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he didn't. But anyway, so
he was approached by these people. So
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he being a poor kid growing up
poor because I actually used to take groceries
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to the house back and he was
from my hometown. That's how I knew
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about it. He's from Augusta,
Georgia, and they were very poor,
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and I helped his family out.
And also I felt like I had a
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really good obligation from him to stay
with me because I had took him from
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the very beginning and insisted on him
stay an amateur. But then when he
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turned pro, he did come with
me. So now he's eighteen and oh
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and he goes to the commission and
files the griefs that he's we're not getting
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along was his excuse, and he
wanted to make a change. But in
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fact these people were offering him quite
a bit of money to get rid of
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me, and signed with them.
So the Commission here ruled in his favor,
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and he was, I had two
more years on the contract, So
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in my mind, if you got
a contract with two more years, they
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on. The ruling was the arbitration. The ruling was there was a black
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arbitrator by the name of Luther Mack
and he was assigned the case and he
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ruled in Vernon's favor to let him
go. And he says, but I'm
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a rude that Vernon should give you
like two hundred and fifty thousand dollars.
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And I said, well, I
don't need the money. If I've done
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something wrong, just let him go. I said, I got money.
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I said, I don't need to. They says, oh no, I
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think you should deserve something. So
that just tells you how bogus the release
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is. Nor is if I've done
something wrong, just let him go for
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nothing, right, But they insisted
that he give me money, which he
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did, which I think obviously came
from the attorneys that were rent us,
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and naturally, I think he became
world champion to fight after our release when
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he beat Chain Moseley. So I
lost the fighter and art so that soured
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me on boxing, which leads me
up to one of the great all time
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bad beat stories of all time.
So now I decide I get tired of
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boxing. I retire from gambling everything. I moved back to Augusta, Georgia,
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by a place back there on about
thirty acres, and I'm going to
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spend time with my kids and whatever. And I'm done with boxing and everything,
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and gambling for that matter. And
then I get a phone call and
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it's from Floyd Mayweather Senior, who's
in the federal penitentiary during a fifteen year
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sentence for a drug kingpin charge.
And he says, Billy, this is
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Floyd Mayweather Senior. I'm calling you
about my son, Floyd Junior. He's
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a very good fighter. You've done
such a wonderful job with my brother Roger,
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and he was very happy with you
all through his career. I want
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you to manage my son for me
while I'm in the federal penitentiary. I
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want you to take him on.
Oh my god, I said Floyd.
215
00:17:21.279 --> 00:17:23.799
I appreciate I heard he's a really
good fighter, but I'm going to turn
216
00:17:23.880 --> 00:17:29.079
you down. I'm just I'm out
of the boxing business. I'm so disgusted
217
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with that. I'm done. Well. He only made a billion dollars and
218
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I would have got a third of
that, which is about three hundred and
219
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thirty million. So I guess you
could call that a bad beach story.
220
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I guess Oh my god, oh
wow, beg me to take him?
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Oh man, I wouldn't take him
for free? Wow Wow pretty good?
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Yeah, sure is should get on
the bad beats on football man. Yeah,
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they have a program on that now, Bad beat Stories. Yeah,
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I'll put that out with a lot
of them. At thirty million. Yep.
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Yeah, I don't think I've heard
one worse than that. So,
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Augusta, you grew up going to
the Masters or never missed around from the
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time I was thirteen years old,
even when I moved out here in seventy
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five until the only year that I
ever really legitimate ever missed was the year
229
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that I was in jail. I
was close to that chain gang and you
230
00:18:32.960 --> 00:18:37.559
talking about, Yeah, they wouldn't
let me go then. So you probably
231
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bet more money at golf than pretty
much anybody. I mean, I'm talking
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about like not necessarily on pro golf, but I'm playing golf. I was
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have a very good golfer, but
I did play a lot of golf for
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money. I had a partner who
was pretty good with Doo Brunson. Door
235
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was about seventy four or seventy five
offer, but he was able to match
236
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up at around seventy nine, so
he had a very good handicap gambling purposes
237
00:19:08.200 --> 00:19:11.599
and what was you or me?
I was terrible. I shot about eighty
238
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eight, but I couldn't hit the
wood, so only I would shooting my
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00:19:15.720 --> 00:19:19.599
eighty with just irons only I was
only playing with I never hit anything.
240
00:19:19.720 --> 00:19:22.960
In fact, I couldn't anything.
I never hit anything beyond a four iron.
241
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I shoot eighty eight with a four
iron up, and so I was
242
00:19:26.559 --> 00:19:30.880
just very ordinary. I could put
in chip. So the way men Dobo
243
00:19:30.960 --> 00:19:33.880
played, he matched up everything to
where he would play with all the clubs.
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I only played with a foe iron
off, so they always gave me
245
00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:41.000
a very good handicap. And we
played a lot of money golf, me
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and Door. We played the guys
that owned the Royal Casino. His name
247
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was Joe Sliman. I think he's
still around town. I think he's in
248
00:19:51.960 --> 00:19:55.680
the real estate business now, but
he was making a lot of money back
249
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in those days. We played a
lot of Nassau's fifty thousand dollars. Nassau
250
00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:06.839
two down press has doubled the back
four and five hundred thousand changed hands a
251
00:20:06.880 --> 00:20:10.440
lot of time. Me and Doyle
scrambled the Las Vegas Country Club. The
252
00:20:10.559 --> 00:20:14.599
last match we ever played with Joe
Slamm and them. Me and Doyle shot
253
00:20:14.759 --> 00:20:18.359
sixty at the lost No. I
was told, I'm telling it run shot
254
00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:22.319
sixty two at the Las Vegas Country
Club. Wow. Wow, let's just
255
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say we won about six hundred thousand. So when and these figures are you
256
00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:32.640
were playing this high back in like
the seventies, seventy five to eighty two,
257
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And did you give up golf at
that point order, Well, that's
258
00:20:36.680 --> 00:20:38.920
another story if you want to just
want to go absolutely sure. Uh.
259
00:20:40.519 --> 00:20:42.880
One day I go to the golf
course. I'm playing. He's actually the
260
00:20:42.920 --> 00:20:48.880
guy that won the World Series with
one chip. It's called a chipun chip.
261
00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:52.079
Jack Strauss, Yeah, yeah,
three time. Me and Jack were
262
00:20:52.079 --> 00:20:55.480
playing golf all the time, and
we matched up all the time, so
263
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we pretty much knew each other's games. And so one day they give me
264
00:20:59.240 --> 00:21:03.559
a game that I felt like I
couldn't lose that, So me and Dole
265
00:21:03.680 --> 00:21:07.680
went business with other things at the
time. I won't get into all that.
266
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But at any rate, Uh,
we go to the golf But me
267
00:21:11.119 --> 00:21:14.480
and Dole always gambled against each other
even when we were together. It was
268
00:21:14.559 --> 00:21:19.319
like he was he could never bet
enough on anything. So when he would
269
00:21:19.319 --> 00:21:22.720
bet golf matches that I wasn't involved
with, that was part of my job.
270
00:21:22.759 --> 00:21:29.039
I had to bet against him.
But anyway, we go to golf
271
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course and they make this match and
they were giving me a spot that I
272
00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:40.759
felt like for sure I had the
nuts actually, and everybody starts betting.
273
00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:45.119
It's like and Tony Spilotro's out of
that too, the famous gangster, and
274
00:21:45.160 --> 00:21:48.480
he was betting against me, and
a lot of a lot of tough guys,
275
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and so it winds up so many
people wanted to bet. I said,
276
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well, hold on, boys,
wait a minute. I got to
277
00:21:53.279 --> 00:21:56.680
get my napkin out, so I
write down this guy had a five fown
278
00:21:56.799 --> 00:22:00.480
on on that. So that guy
had a five And then all of a
279
00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:03.319
sudden, Doyle, who was there
for breakfast, he said, okay,
280
00:22:03.400 --> 00:22:07.039
you can give me a five pound
dollar in that saw too. So anyway
281
00:22:07.480 --> 00:22:11.559
we go out to play in the
first hole, I'll get it back.
282
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And once again this match I had
to play with woods, which was different
283
00:22:14.839 --> 00:22:18.079
from me, and I wasn't very
good at him. So now the first
284
00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:22.079
swinging almost whifted the ball, and
the ball whiffle ball out to the right
285
00:22:22.119 --> 00:22:26.920
wing out to the right, almost
fanned it. And I was good enough.
286
00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:30.640
I didn't fan ball, so this
didn't feel. I knew something was
287
00:22:30.680 --> 00:22:33.680
wrong. So I lose. So
we go to the second hold of the
288
00:22:33.720 --> 00:22:37.000
same thing occurs. I almost whiff
of it again. So I says,
289
00:22:37.279 --> 00:22:41.119
gentlemen, there's something wrong with my
clubs. So I start. I turned
290
00:22:41.160 --> 00:22:44.559
the car around. There's maybe twenty
golf cards following us. I go back
291
00:22:44.640 --> 00:22:48.160
up to the club that's with the
Sahara and I take my clubs in there
292
00:22:48.200 --> 00:22:51.440
to the insplotry. I remember his
famous he said, oh god, damn,
293
00:22:51.720 --> 00:22:55.720
you get one shot down, you
start crying. Something's wrong. So
294
00:22:55.799 --> 00:22:59.799
anyway, we go to clubhouse and
the pro takes the screw. Back those
295
00:22:59.839 --> 00:23:03.240
days, you had metal balls in
the weight, which was the weight in
296
00:23:03.279 --> 00:23:06.160
the clubs. And when he opened
it up, he said, well,
297
00:23:06.200 --> 00:23:08.279
I got bad. He says,
looks like a bunch of woodpeckers have been
298
00:23:08.319 --> 00:23:11.960
in your woods. He says,
they're taking the weights out of your woods
299
00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:15.799
and then he checked the irons,
like the nine irons were made to like
300
00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:19.640
a seven, and every club has
been up. So we had left our
301
00:23:19.680 --> 00:23:23.000
clubs overnight, so they had docted
all my clubs up overnight. So I
302
00:23:23.119 --> 00:23:26.640
go back out and say, well, boys, I didn't caught y'all with
303
00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:30.720
too many cards in your hand,
y'all y'all sheeting, I said, y'all,
304
00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:33.000
let me get some clubs we could. So naturally, they don't want
305
00:23:33.039 --> 00:23:37.839
to play this match on the legit
because they know that, so anyway,
306
00:23:37.880 --> 00:23:41.559
we won't going to all how that
come down. It was big argument and
307
00:23:41.599 --> 00:23:45.200
everything, but at any rate,
we ended that match. But now to
308
00:23:45.279 --> 00:23:48.559
make a long so now, but
one of the sidelights of this story,
309
00:23:48.559 --> 00:23:52.039
which I thought was very funny,
I went into the clubhousing doors still in
310
00:23:52.079 --> 00:23:56.400
the eating breakfast, and I said, because we were like partners and business
311
00:23:56.559 --> 00:23:57.960
or a couple of things, I
said, door, let me in something.
312
00:23:57.960 --> 00:24:00.519
I says, why was you so
anxious to bet on that match?
313
00:24:00.599 --> 00:24:03.240
And you know, I had the
nuts, And he got kind of red
314
00:24:03.279 --> 00:24:07.440
in the face, and he looked
at me and he says, you know
315
00:24:07.519 --> 00:24:11.240
what, Billy says to tell you
the truth? Everybody said today might be
316
00:24:11.359 --> 00:24:17.440
a really good day to bet.
So I thought that was a classic statement,
317
00:24:18.599 --> 00:24:22.279
they might be a really good day
to bet. Yeah. Wow.
318
00:24:22.720 --> 00:24:27.200
There was final results of that as
I took my clubs, run out there
319
00:24:27.240 --> 00:24:30.920
and threw them in the pond.
Harrah, if you go out there,
320
00:24:30.920 --> 00:24:36.480
you might just go out there and
find them now. And that's been thirty
321
00:24:36.519 --> 00:24:40.240
forty years ago. I've never played
another round of golf since. Oh really,
322
00:24:40.480 --> 00:24:45.039
wow, that was in my last
golf Wow. So back in the
323
00:24:45.160 --> 00:24:48.279
day, did you play it all
with Jimmy Chagra, Because I know he
324
00:24:48.400 --> 00:24:52.960
had some legends. Let me Chagra. I was the main spot with That's
325
00:24:53.599 --> 00:24:57.359
part of my poker history. When
Chagra came to town, he was playing
326
00:24:57.359 --> 00:25:02.599
in the poker game with me,
Serget Bobby Baldwin. It was probably the
327
00:25:02.640 --> 00:25:06.400
biggest poker game they ever had in
Las Vegas. We were playing five hundred
328
00:25:06.440 --> 00:25:10.119
and eight thousand, two blinds,
no limit due to the seven in the
329
00:25:10.200 --> 00:25:15.640
seventies and anyway, Chagra was losing
a million a day on the golf course
330
00:25:15.119 --> 00:25:18.039
and I was one of the ones
out there betting against him. Normal day
331
00:25:18.200 --> 00:25:22.440
was thirty forty fifty thousand. He
lost millions, but he was trying to
332
00:25:22.519 --> 00:25:26.400
line He wasn't trying to line the
money. He was just trying to act
333
00:25:26.440 --> 00:25:30.119
like a gambler because he knew he
was under a federal indictment in Texas for
334
00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:37.319
he was a drug on a drug
kingpin charge. And so his solution of
335
00:25:37.359 --> 00:25:41.880
the problem was he had the judge
who was called Maximum John Woods. He
336
00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:48.000
was known for killing or for sentencing
drug dealers to big sentences. He had
337
00:25:48.039 --> 00:25:52.000
Woody Harrilson, the movie Stars daddy
shoot the federal judge dead on his front
338
00:25:52.039 --> 00:25:55.599
porch. I don't know if you
know that part of the story. Yeah,
339
00:25:55.799 --> 00:25:59.400
and he's still in prison, right, well he probably, Yeah,
340
00:25:59.440 --> 00:26:02.920
they let give me out a month
or two before. He had treminal cancer
341
00:26:02.920 --> 00:26:06.359
that led him out and he died
within a month of being released from prison.
342
00:26:06.599 --> 00:26:08.799
Yeah. Yeah, No, I
meant his Woody Harrelson's dad, I
343
00:26:08.839 --> 00:26:12.920
think is still in prison. But
you don't never get out from killing a
344
00:26:12.960 --> 00:26:17.680
federal judge. Yeah. Yeah,
that's like, I mean a lot of
345
00:26:17.680 --> 00:26:22.039
people don't know it, but at
that time, this was the second biggest
346
00:26:22.160 --> 00:26:26.519
federal investigation that's ever been in this
country. Was that they had two hundred
347
00:26:26.640 --> 00:26:32.240
special agents of the FBI that was
sent to Las Vegas, Nevada, to
348
00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:38.119
investigate the killing of John Woods,
a federal judge. The biggest investigation ever
349
00:26:38.319 --> 00:26:44.440
was the Kennedy assassination and the killing
of John Wood. The federal judge was
350
00:26:44.440 --> 00:26:47.880
the seconds. And that's when they
had so much heat in Las Vegas on
351
00:26:47.960 --> 00:26:52.160
all Gamma. That's when they broke
up the skim at the Sahara, I
352
00:26:52.160 --> 00:26:56.000
mean at the start of the hotel, and that's when all that came down,
353
00:26:56.039 --> 00:27:00.880
when the two hundred special agents were
here. Wow. Yeah. And
354
00:27:00.359 --> 00:27:07.200
another sort of legendary guy blowing off
money at golf was Jay Sarno. Did
355
00:27:07.279 --> 00:27:11.599
you build a part of that?
But you're one hundred percent right. They
356
00:27:11.640 --> 00:27:15.720
had a crew around the Las Vegas
Country Club that played with him every day,
357
00:27:15.759 --> 00:27:18.759
and bad as he was, they
didn't have to do this. But
358
00:27:18.839 --> 00:27:22.160
I think they had a foursome that
no matter who he drew as a partner
359
00:27:22.200 --> 00:27:26.200
that day, the other three wall
pardoners. So I don't think he had
360
00:27:26.279 --> 00:27:30.839
much of a chance. You know. I remember when I first moved to
361
00:27:30.839 --> 00:27:36.400
town in seventy seven, and you
know, I was a kid and I
362
00:27:36.440 --> 00:27:38.160
went to the there was a backam
and club at the time. I went
363
00:27:38.200 --> 00:27:41.480
to the Backam Club and the first
time I walk in there, I see
364
00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:47.799
Puggy Pearson playing somebody and who for
me was like a legend at that time,
365
00:27:47.839 --> 00:27:52.480
because I'd only read about, you
know, these people. And one
366
00:27:52.519 --> 00:27:56.720
of the guys at the Backaming Club
tells me that Puggy has just won two
367
00:27:56.799 --> 00:28:03.200
hundred thousand dollars that day playing golf
off with Jay Sarno, and the next
368
00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:08.480
week he was playing seven stud five
ten limit because he had blown off all
369
00:28:08.480 --> 00:28:14.799
the money. So it just sort
of boggled my mind. That guy was.
370
00:28:14.920 --> 00:28:18.759
You know, I had no clue
what, you know, what really
371
00:28:18.799 --> 00:28:23.920
went on when I first moved here. But what do you think the biggest
372
00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:27.839
gamble you ever took in your life
was? And I don't necessarily mean about
373
00:28:27.880 --> 00:28:33.039
money, I just mean the biggest
gamble of your life? You ever thought
374
00:28:33.039 --> 00:28:38.240
about that? You know? I
always liked to think that I was somewhat
375
00:28:38.279 --> 00:28:42.359
of a manager as a gambler,
in the words, I tried to keep
376
00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:47.519
my gambling in check to my bank
roll in it, and I think that's
377
00:28:47.559 --> 00:28:51.279
one of the keys to success.
So I made a lot of big bets
378
00:28:51.279 --> 00:28:55.039
in my life, but many big
bets. But I always tried to.
379
00:28:55.160 --> 00:28:59.839
Like the Leonard fight, betting three
hundred thousand always a big bet, and
380
00:29:00.160 --> 00:29:03.400
I had numerous bets of that night
in my life, but I always tried
381
00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:10.079
to. I always felt one thing
about gambling is your money is like your
382
00:29:10.119 --> 00:29:14.519
toolbox. In other words, when
you don't have any tools to work with,
383
00:29:14.640 --> 00:29:18.079
you're out of business. So I
always felt like the key to gambling
384
00:29:18.160 --> 00:29:23.400
success was being able to I call
it answering the bell every day. In
385
00:29:23.480 --> 00:29:26.160
the words, you got to be
able to get up and start gambling every
386
00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:32.240
day. That means you have to
keep money. So I never after my
387
00:29:32.480 --> 00:29:36.880
early years when I was very young, I never put myself in position of
388
00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:42.400
going broke again. Yeah, on
one bet like you described, but I
389
00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:49.119
mean gambles that were not about money, like gambles in your life. Where
390
00:29:49.519 --> 00:29:56.839
I did many things that were very
unsuccessful. We bought into Dole's room poker
391
00:29:56.920 --> 00:30:03.319
room, which invested I think it
was four hundred thousand and uh. Doel
392
00:30:03.440 --> 00:30:07.839
called me one day, this is
another bad beat story. Actually, well,
393
00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:11.240
no, I might be the bad
beat king with this and Doe I
394
00:30:11.319 --> 00:30:15.599
invested and we were doing very good. And this was before the Black Friday
395
00:30:15.680 --> 00:30:19.599
or whatever it was. About six
months before that happened. Door called me
396
00:30:19.599 --> 00:30:25.559
one day says, well, this
big, big sports company out of England,
397
00:30:25.599 --> 00:30:29.440
I believe it was, just offered
him two hundred million to buy us
398
00:30:29.480 --> 00:30:33.000
out. And of course my part
of that would I think I had four
399
00:30:33.039 --> 00:30:37.400
percent or whatever it was. Was
like whatever that is, I say eight
400
00:30:38.240 --> 00:30:44.359
and which was not the end of
the world. But anyway, he I
401
00:30:44.359 --> 00:30:45.480
said, well, it sounded like
a good time to sell it to me.
402
00:30:45.759 --> 00:30:48.680
He said, are you kidding?
We're gonna get a billion dollars for
403
00:30:48.799 --> 00:30:53.079
this company. Needless to say,
three months later the doors came down,
404
00:30:53.160 --> 00:30:59.200
everybody got closed up, and naturally
we got nothing. For those who don't
405
00:30:59.240 --> 00:31:03.640
know, Big Doyle's Room was an
online poker site and then all those got
406
00:31:03.720 --> 00:31:10.680
shut down at some point. So
yeah, yeah, well, you know
407
00:31:10.799 --> 00:31:14.480
this has been great, Billy.
Any any other stories come to mind that
408
00:31:15.519 --> 00:31:18.319
before we before we wrap it up. No, I think that's that will
409
00:31:18.359 --> 00:31:22.000
give you a little something to dodge. Yes, Ill, and you know
410
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maybe some other Oh I have a
lot of stories, but maybe it's some
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other time. I'll when you have
another topic, I'll give you a few
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more. Okay, yeah, because
I can't get enough, so I just
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want to thank you for doing this, so thanks. Just a couple of
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endnotes for everybody. Billy Baxter mentioned
Jack tree Top Strauss and the chip and
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a chair, and I thought,
for anyone who doesn't know that story,
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what he's talking about there. So
Jack Strauss was called Treetop because he was
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six foot six and in nineteen eighty
two, at the World Series of Poker,
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he shoved all his chips in the
pot and was eliminated, or so
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he thought. But then what happened
was when he stood up, he found
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that he still had a chip that
had been under his napkin, and in
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today's World Series that he would not
keep that chip, he would be eliminated.
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But in nineteen eighty two he sat
back down with one single chip and
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ended up winning the World Series of
Poker. And from that he said,
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in this game, all you need
is a chip and a chair to win.
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So anyway, that's today's show.
I hope you enjoyed it as much
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00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:50.039
as I did. You can always
reach me at Life is a Gamble Pod
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00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:55.359
at gmail dot com, or you
can find me on Twitter at RWM twenty
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00:32:55.400 --> 00:33:05.039
one. Until next time, wait
at
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Hey, everybody, and welcome to
life as gamble. I am very pleased
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today that my guest is the legendary
gambler Billy Baxter. Over the last thirteen
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years, I've done over six hundred
episodes of Gambling with an Edge, and
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when people ask me who are your
favorite guests, top of my list has
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always been Billy Baxter, just because
he knows how to tell a story and
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he's had a fascinating life. Also, I just wanted to say that all
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professional gamblers owe him a huge debt
because he is the one who fought the
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case with the Irs Baxter versus the
United States allowing gambling as a profession,
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and the court ruled in Baxter's favor
that gambling earnings could be considered earned income.
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And because otherwise professional gambling would be
a night mere tax wise, I
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mean, it's already kind of a
nightmare, but you know what I mean.
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So, Billy is now eighty three
and last year he was inducted into
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the Sports Betting Hall of Fame and
an amazing accomplishment in the World Series of
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Poker Senior event, out of almost
eight two hundred entries, he came in
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second, and you know, just
because it's a senior event. These are
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not doddering old old men. I
mean, there are a lot of really
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strong players that were in this event. And for him to come in second,
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he is a seven time World Series
of Poker bracelet winner, and that
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would have been his eighth. But
anyway, an amazing accomplishment at eighty three.
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Because these World Series of Poker events
are really a lot of it is
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endurance, So kudos to Billy for
that. Anyway, now here's the show.
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Billy. I'm so happy you're here
and we can talk. Well,
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it's good to be here. How
you doing good? Good? Real?
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Well? So I want to talk
about golf and about boxing. But before
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we get to that, I just
recently learned that you were actually on a
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chain gang. And for our younger
audience who doesn't know what a chain gang
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is, would you explain what that
means. Well, I don't know if
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this is one of my best stories, but I'll tell it anyway, Benji
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asked. Back in my early day, before I came to Las Vegas,
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this is prior to nineteen seventy five, I actually had a little gambling casino
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in Georgia, which was very illegal. We had craps, roulette, blackjack,
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just like Las Vegas, and we
were open all night every night,
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and it was very much against the
law also. But at any rate,
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this is any of the stories I
tell you all verifiable. You can get
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your nineteen eighty four issue of Sports
Illustrated. The front cover I think has
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Alan Trammel on the front issues to
May of nineteen eighty four, and there's
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a ten page story in there that
will tell you about the FBI and the
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Georgia Bureau of Investigation knocking the door
down of my casino, which was during
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the Master's golf tumber. This is
in Augusta, Georgia and famous football player
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Serny Jergison had the craps in his
hand when the door when the doors came
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down. But anyway, out of
that, I wound up getting a year
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in jail, and I was able
to run that concurrently with federal book baking
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cases that I had at the time, and the government they just wanted a
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conviction, so they allowed me to
run the state case with the federal case,
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so I was able to do the
time in my hometown in the prison
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there. And this was on a
road called Tobacco Road in Augusta, Georgia,
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And in those days, they had
a chain gang, just like they
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do you see in the movies from
years ago. They had the prisoners where
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their feet were tied to the together, and they had one guard at the
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front with a shotgun and one guard
at the back with a shotgun, and
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the truck was loaded with the hound
dogs ready to chase anybody got away.
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Well, when I first went to
prison, that was where I was headed.
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But the good news about the stories, I wound up not having to
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go out every day on the actual
chain gang and do that because I had
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well i'll just say I had a
little help and I was able to get
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a job in the parts department,
which is where we fixed the trucks and
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all that took the prisoners out to
work on the chain game. So I
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avoided the actual swing blade duty.
So the swing blade you would be chopping,
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Yeah, you chopped grass on the
side of the road, picked up
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trash and whatever. The twenty or
so prisoners that were tied together and that
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went on. I mean, that's
just the way the prison system was back
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in those days. Is we're not
talking about a long time ago. This
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is in nineteen seventy five in Augusta, Georgia. It's amazing it was still
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going on then. Yes, great
movie about that for anybody who hasn't seen
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it, there's a great movie with
Paul Newman called Cool Handling Lucas exactly.
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But okay, So anyway, then
I wanted to get into boxing because I
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understand you used to manage boxers.
Is that right? That's correct? Yes,
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how did that happen? Well,
that was because of my gambling activity.
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I would always better. I like
to bet on boxing. That was
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one of the things that I thought
I did best was watching sporting events and
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being able to determine which team was
better or whether it be basketball or football
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or whatever it was. And the
same thing applied to boxing. So in
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order to bet successfully, in my
mind, I would go to the gyms
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to watch people train when they were
here for big fights and all that I
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was interested in betting on. And
one day I was in the gym and
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the young kid named Roger Mayweather came
to town. He got through out of
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the Olympics and right before the Olympic
trials for a bad attitude, and he's
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in the gym and he's beating up
all these pretty good fighters that I knew
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about, and I said, well, who is that kid, and they
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said, well, that's Roger Maywell. He just got threes out in town
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here looking for a manager, and
I had never did that before. So
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Steve after his workout and talked to
him and we came to an agreement and
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I became his manager, and thirteen
fights later, after having no pro experience,
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in his thirteenth fight, I put
him in for the world championship.
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He fought a guy named Sammy Serrano
and San Juan Puerto Rico and Roberta Komeni
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Stadium before forty thousand fans, and
he won the world title. The guy
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had lost a fight in ten years. He knocked him out and there I
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think it was eighth or ninth round. Wow. That's how I got in
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the business. And then from there
I became Bruce Curry's manager, who went
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on to become the welterweight Champion,
Junior welterweight Champion of the World. And
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my last fighter was Vernon Forrest,
who fought Shane Mosley twice and was our
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represented in the Olympic trials and he
was became wel toweight champion of the world.
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So I had three fighters. I
never had a fight to lose a
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fight out of seventy five fight.
It's the first seventy five fights they ever
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had, and they all three became
world champion without ever losing a fight.
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Wow, Now did you have to
deal with people like Don King to set
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these matches? Was? Don King
was our promoter for the for Mayweather's first
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title offense I took. I went
to see him because it was very difficult
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to get raided back in those days. You almost had to buy your rating
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and that sort of thing, or
have somebody to push you to get in
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there. So I approached Don about
Roger and told him that you know,
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this kid is exceptional. He can
beat anybody at one hundred and thirty pounds.
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And he said, we really you
don't you think you need to give
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him a few more fights. He's
only had thirteen fights. I said,
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you get him to fight, I
promise you he'll win. And he says,
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well, you got a pretty good
reputation I understand in the gambling world
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for picking winners and all. They
says, So I'm gonna give you a
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chance. I'm gonna get you this
fight. All you got to do is
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sign this promotional agreement, so he
became our promoter. Ah, and did
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he end up screwing you? I
mean, I thought that was his m
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to say Don's still alive. I
think so. Well. Actually I like
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Don quite a bit, but I
think that him and Aaron both fallen just
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under the same umbrella. They were
like one A and one B. They
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weren't entry. I don't think anyone
was. They both had not the greatest
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effort reputations for treating the fighters that
well, but they both were great promoters.
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So the controversy came with the Sugar
Ray Leonard Hagler fight. Was it?
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Yeah, that was a fight that
was in Vegas, in one of
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the fights that I bet about three
hundred thousand on this fight. It taken
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like whatever it was I forgot.
I think it was around three to one
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because Lenyard had been off for about
a year or so and Hagler was like
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pretty well thought of, is pretty
much unbeatable at middleweight, and Lenyard was
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moving up from forty seven pounds after
being off about a year, a year
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and a half maybe longer that I
just don't recall exactly. And somehow with
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my deductions, I came up.
I thought he could win this fight,
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so I made a pretty large bed
on the fight, and of course we
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won a very close decision, which
Bob Aram was the promoter at the time,
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and he knew that if Hagler lost
and Leonard won, that Leonard's trainer
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would not let him be the promoter
for the next fight. I'm kind of
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explaining how this thick story came about. And AERM at the time was writing
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a story for the Las Vegas Sun
on Sunday, and the fight didn't get
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over till like nearly eleven o'clock at
night and the Sunday morning paper which come
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out at like one one thirty in
the morning. Somehow another he managed to
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race out of the stadium down to
the Sun and my picture wound up in
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the paper for uh having fixed the
Hagler Leonard fight. And of course that
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was later through a grand jury investigation
everything else. Who was determined that I
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didn't have anything to do with it. But I actually I should have sued
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Aram, but at the time I'm
just not the sue in type, so
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I just let it go. Yeah. Well, and and it might have
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been difficult to prove it was Aram
that that said it or that was it
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wasn't too too difficult, but we
just let it go. So did you
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like the boxing business? I actually
loved the boxing. But we went all
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over the world. I went to
Japan with Bruce Curry. We fought an
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undefeated fighter in Japan, and uh
just this king was our promoter with that
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fight. Also, Aram was my
promoter with Vernon Forrest and but anyway,
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we went to Japan and when we
got off the plane, this kids we
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were fighting. If we were led
to believe, it'd be a pretty easy
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fact. But when we got off
the plane, the first thing we saw
148
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was his picture on the in the
airport going out, they had about thirty
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newspaper people greet us at the airport, which is pretty unusual. And I
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see this kid's picture on the wall
that says it's hit Sue Akaya, which
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was his name, and he's on
the American Express card that says don't leave
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home without it. So I said, you know, this kid must be
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pretty popular over here. We wound
up fighting in his college gymnasium. It
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was a college student and it was
pretty intimidating. They turned all the heat
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off. It was in July and
people were actually was so hot they were
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ringing the dresses out and squeezing water
out of them at the fight. Just
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00:12:48.320 --> 00:12:52.639
your dress that you had on,
that's how hot it was. Wow.
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Wow. Needless say, Bruce did
come back and win that fighting about the
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00:12:56.279 --> 00:13:00.159
eighth round by not fifth, well
I'm not sure the round, but he
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won by knockout because he was losing
every round up there. Oh wow,
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huh why'd you Why did you end
up getting out of the boxing business.
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Well, that's ah, that's the
reason I got this is I'll tell a
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00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:18.080
quick bad beat. This is this
is a real bad beat story. H
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Vernon was eighteen and oh with arom
and he's getting ready to participate with the
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world title fight I'm right before that, and he was approached by some black
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attorneys I believe they were out of
I believe they were black out of Atlanta
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that talked to Vernon about if he
could get away from that guy that's managing
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you, we'll give give you quite
a bit of money and you can,
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uh, we'll do a lot of
things for you that he's not doing that.
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So he and he's from my hometown. That's how we became. I
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had helped him quite a bit through
the amateur and all, and insisted that
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he lead stay in the amateurs and
go to the Olympics, which he did.
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He beat Mosley in the Olympic trials
to go Olympics. Also he lost
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in the Olympics, but you know, he probably should have won, but
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he didn't. But anyway, so
he was approached by these people. So
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he being a poor kid growing up
poor because I actually used to take groceries
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to the house back and he was
from my hometown. That's how I knew
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about it. He's from Augusta,
Georgia, and they were very poor,
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and I helped his family out.
And also I felt like I had a
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really good obligation from him to stay
with me because I had took him from
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the very beginning and insisted on him
stay an amateur. But then when he
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turned pro, he did come with
me. So now he's eighteen and oh
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and he goes to the commission and
files the griefs that he's we're not getting
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along was his excuse, and he
wanted to make a change. But in
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fact these people were offering him quite
a bit of money to get rid of
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00:15:05.200 --> 00:15:11.360
me, and signed with them.
So the Commission here ruled in his favor,
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and he was, I had two
more years on the contract, So
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in my mind, if you got
a contract with two more years, they
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on. The ruling was the arbitration. The ruling was there was a black
190
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arbitrator by the name of Luther Mack
and he was assigned the case and he
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ruled in Vernon's favor to let him
go. And he says, but I'm
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a rude that Vernon should give you
like two hundred and fifty thousand dollars.
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And I said, well, I
don't need the money. If I've done
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something wrong, just let him go. I said, I got money.
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I said, I don't need to. They says, oh no, I
196
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think you should deserve something. So
that just tells you how bogus the release
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is. Nor is if I've done
something wrong, just let him go for
198
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nothing, right, But they insisted
that he give me money, which he
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did, which I think obviously came
from the attorneys that were rent us,
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and naturally, I think he became
world champion to fight after our release when
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he beat Chain Moseley. So I
lost the fighter and art so that soured
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me on boxing, which leads me
up to one of the great all time
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bad beat stories of all time.
So now I decide I get tired of
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boxing. I retire from gambling everything. I moved back to Augusta, Georgia,
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by a place back there on about
thirty acres, and I'm going to
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spend time with my kids and whatever. And I'm done with boxing and everything,
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and gambling for that matter. And
then I get a phone call and
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it's from Floyd Mayweather Senior, who's
in the federal penitentiary during a fifteen year
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sentence for a drug kingpin charge.
And he says, Billy, this is
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Floyd Mayweather Senior. I'm calling you
about my son, Floyd Junior. He's
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a very good fighter. You've done
such a wonderful job with my brother Roger,
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and he was very happy with you
all through his career. I want
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you to manage my son for me
while I'm in the federal penitentiary. I
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want you to take him on.
Oh my god, I said Floyd.
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I appreciate I heard he's a really
good fighter, but I'm going to turn
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you down. I'm just I'm out
of the boxing business. I'm so disgusted
217
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with that. I'm done. Well. He only made a billion dollars and
218
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I would have got a third of
that, which is about three hundred and
219
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thirty million. So I guess you
could call that a bad beach story.
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I guess Oh my god, oh
wow, beg me to take him?
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Oh man, I wouldn't take him
for free? Wow Wow pretty good?
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Yeah, sure is should get on
the bad beats on football man. Yeah,
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they have a program on that now, Bad beat Stories. Yeah,
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I'll put that out with a lot
of them. At thirty million. Yep.
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Yeah, I don't think I've heard
one worse than that. So,
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Augusta, you grew up going to
the Masters or never missed around from the
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time I was thirteen years old,
even when I moved out here in seventy
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five until the only year that I
ever really legitimate ever missed was the year
229
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that I was in jail. I
was close to that chain gang and you
230
00:18:32.960 --> 00:18:37.559
talking about, Yeah, they wouldn't
let me go then. So you probably
231
00:18:37.759 --> 00:18:44.079
bet more money at golf than pretty
much anybody. I mean, I'm talking
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about like not necessarily on pro golf, but I'm playing golf. I was
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have a very good golfer, but
I did play a lot of golf for
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money. I had a partner who
was pretty good with Doo Brunson. Door
235
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was about seventy four or seventy five
offer, but he was able to match
236
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up at around seventy nine, so
he had a very good handicap gambling purposes
237
00:19:08.200 --> 00:19:11.599
and what was you or me?
I was terrible. I shot about eighty
238
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eight, but I couldn't hit the
wood, so only I would shooting my
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00:19:15.720 --> 00:19:19.599
eighty with just irons only I was
only playing with I never hit anything.
240
00:19:19.720 --> 00:19:22.960
In fact, I couldn't anything.
I never hit anything beyond a four iron.
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I shoot eighty eight with a four
iron up, and so I was
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just very ordinary. I could put
in chip. So the way men Dobo
243
00:19:30.960 --> 00:19:33.880
played, he matched up everything to
where he would play with all the clubs.
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I only played with a foe iron
off, so they always gave me
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00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:41.000
a very good handicap. And we
played a lot of money golf, me
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00:19:41.079 --> 00:19:47.799
and Door. We played the guys
that owned the Royal Casino. His name
247
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was Joe Sliman. I think he's
still around town. I think he's in
248
00:19:51.960 --> 00:19:55.680
the real estate business now, but
he was making a lot of money back
249
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in those days. We played a
lot of Nassau's fifty thousand dollars. Nassau
250
00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:06.839
two down press has doubled the back
four and five hundred thousand changed hands a
251
00:20:06.880 --> 00:20:10.440
lot of time. Me and Doyle
scrambled the Las Vegas Country Club. The
252
00:20:10.559 --> 00:20:14.599
last match we ever played with Joe
Slamm and them. Me and Doyle shot
253
00:20:14.759 --> 00:20:18.359
sixty at the lost No. I
was told, I'm telling it run shot
254
00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:22.319
sixty two at the Las Vegas Country
Club. Wow. Wow, let's just
255
00:20:22.319 --> 00:20:26.880
say we won about six hundred thousand. So when and these figures are you
256
00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:32.640
were playing this high back in like
the seventies, seventy five to eighty two,
257
00:20:33.640 --> 00:20:36.640
And did you give up golf at
that point order, Well, that's
258
00:20:36.680 --> 00:20:38.920
another story if you want to just
want to go absolutely sure. Uh.
259
00:20:40.519 --> 00:20:42.880
One day I go to the golf
course. I'm playing. He's actually the
260
00:20:42.920 --> 00:20:48.880
guy that won the World Series with
one chip. It's called a chipun chip.
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Jack Strauss, Yeah, yeah,
three time. Me and Jack were
262
00:20:52.079 --> 00:20:55.480
playing golf all the time, and
we matched up all the time, so
263
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we pretty much knew each other's games. And so one day they give me
264
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a game that I felt like I
couldn't lose that, So me and Dole
265
00:21:03.680 --> 00:21:07.680
went business with other things at the
time. I won't get into all that.
266
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But at any rate, Uh,
we go to the golf But me
267
00:21:11.119 --> 00:21:14.480
and Dole always gambled against each other
even when we were together. It was
268
00:21:14.559 --> 00:21:19.319
like he was he could never bet
enough on anything. So when he would
269
00:21:19.319 --> 00:21:22.720
bet golf matches that I wasn't involved
with, that was part of my job.
270
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I had to bet against him.
But anyway, we go to golf
271
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course and they make this match and
they were giving me a spot that I
272
00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:40.759
felt like for sure I had the
nuts actually, and everybody starts betting.
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00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:45.119
It's like and Tony Spilotro's out of
that too, the famous gangster, and
274
00:21:45.160 --> 00:21:48.480
he was betting against me, and
a lot of a lot of tough guys,
275
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and so it winds up so many
people wanted to bet. I said,
276
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well, hold on, boys,
wait a minute. I got to
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00:21:53.279 --> 00:21:56.680
get my napkin out, so I
write down this guy had a five fown
278
00:21:56.799 --> 00:22:00.480
on on that. So that guy
had a five And then all of a
279
00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:03.319
sudden, Doyle, who was there
for breakfast, he said, okay,
280
00:22:03.400 --> 00:22:07.039
you can give me a five pound
dollar in that saw too. So anyway
281
00:22:07.480 --> 00:22:11.559
we go out to play in the
first hole, I'll get it back.
282
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And once again this match I had
to play with woods, which was different
283
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from me, and I wasn't very
good at him. So now the first
284
00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:22.079
swinging almost whifted the ball, and
the ball whiffle ball out to the right
285
00:22:22.119 --> 00:22:26.920
wing out to the right, almost
fanned it. And I was good enough.
286
00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:30.640
I didn't fan ball, so this
didn't feel. I knew something was
287
00:22:30.680 --> 00:22:33.680
wrong. So I lose. So
we go to the second hold of the
288
00:22:33.720 --> 00:22:37.000
same thing occurs. I almost whiff
of it again. So I says,
289
00:22:37.279 --> 00:22:41.119
gentlemen, there's something wrong with my
clubs. So I start. I turned
290
00:22:41.160 --> 00:22:44.559
the car around. There's maybe twenty
golf cards following us. I go back
291
00:22:44.640 --> 00:22:48.160
up to the club that's with the
Sahara and I take my clubs in there
292
00:22:48.200 --> 00:22:51.440
to the insplotry. I remember his
famous he said, oh god, damn,
293
00:22:51.720 --> 00:22:55.720
you get one shot down, you
start crying. Something's wrong. So
294
00:22:55.799 --> 00:22:59.799
anyway, we go to clubhouse and
the pro takes the screw. Back those
295
00:22:59.839 --> 00:23:03.240
days, you had metal balls in
the weight, which was the weight in
296
00:23:03.279 --> 00:23:06.160
the clubs. And when he opened
it up, he said, well,
297
00:23:06.200 --> 00:23:08.279
I got bad. He says,
looks like a bunch of woodpeckers have been
298
00:23:08.319 --> 00:23:11.960
in your woods. He says,
they're taking the weights out of your woods
299
00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:15.799
and then he checked the irons,
like the nine irons were made to like
300
00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:19.640
a seven, and every club has
been up. So we had left our
301
00:23:19.680 --> 00:23:23.000
clubs overnight, so they had docted
all my clubs up overnight. So I
302
00:23:23.119 --> 00:23:26.640
go back out and say, well, boys, I didn't caught y'all with
303
00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:30.720
too many cards in your hand,
y'all y'all sheeting, I said, y'all,
304
00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:33.000
let me get some clubs we could. So naturally, they don't want
305
00:23:33.039 --> 00:23:37.839
to play this match on the legit
because they know that, so anyway,
306
00:23:37.880 --> 00:23:41.559
we won't going to all how that
come down. It was big argument and
307
00:23:41.599 --> 00:23:45.200
everything, but at any rate,
we ended that match. But now to
308
00:23:45.279 --> 00:23:48.559
make a long so now, but
one of the sidelights of this story,
309
00:23:48.559 --> 00:23:52.039
which I thought was very funny,
I went into the clubhousing doors still in
310
00:23:52.079 --> 00:23:56.400
the eating breakfast, and I said, because we were like partners and business
311
00:23:56.559 --> 00:23:57.960
or a couple of things, I
said, door, let me in something.
312
00:23:57.960 --> 00:24:00.519
I says, why was you so
anxious to bet on that match?
313
00:24:00.599 --> 00:24:03.240
And you know, I had the
nuts, And he got kind of red
314
00:24:03.279 --> 00:24:07.440
in the face, and he looked
at me and he says, you know
315
00:24:07.519 --> 00:24:11.240
what, Billy says to tell you
the truth? Everybody said today might be
316
00:24:11.359 --> 00:24:17.440
a really good day to bet.
So I thought that was a classic statement,
317
00:24:18.599 --> 00:24:22.279
they might be a really good day
to bet. Yeah. Wow.
318
00:24:22.720 --> 00:24:27.200
There was final results of that as
I took my clubs, run out there
319
00:24:27.240 --> 00:24:30.920
and threw them in the pond.
Harrah, if you go out there,
320
00:24:30.920 --> 00:24:36.480
you might just go out there and
find them now. And that's been thirty
321
00:24:36.519 --> 00:24:40.240
forty years ago. I've never played
another round of golf since. Oh really,
322
00:24:40.480 --> 00:24:45.039
wow, that was in my last
golf Wow. So back in the
323
00:24:45.160 --> 00:24:48.279
day, did you play it all
with Jimmy Chagra, Because I know he
324
00:24:48.400 --> 00:24:52.960
had some legends. Let me Chagra. I was the main spot with That's
325
00:24:53.599 --> 00:24:57.359
part of my poker history. When
Chagra came to town, he was playing
326
00:24:57.359 --> 00:25:02.599
in the poker game with me,
Serget Bobby Baldwin. It was probably the
327
00:25:02.640 --> 00:25:06.400
biggest poker game they ever had in
Las Vegas. We were playing five hundred
328
00:25:06.440 --> 00:25:10.119
and eight thousand, two blinds,
no limit due to the seven in the
329
00:25:10.200 --> 00:25:15.640
seventies and anyway, Chagra was losing
a million a day on the golf course
330
00:25:15.119 --> 00:25:18.039
and I was one of the ones
out there betting against him. Normal day
331
00:25:18.200 --> 00:25:22.440
was thirty forty fifty thousand. He
lost millions, but he was trying to
332
00:25:22.519 --> 00:25:26.400
line He wasn't trying to line the
money. He was just trying to act
333
00:25:26.440 --> 00:25:30.119
like a gambler because he knew he
was under a federal indictment in Texas for
334
00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:37.319
he was a drug on a drug
kingpin charge. And so his solution of
335
00:25:37.359 --> 00:25:41.880
the problem was he had the judge
who was called Maximum John Woods. He
336
00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:48.000
was known for killing or for sentencing
drug dealers to big sentences. He had
337
00:25:48.039 --> 00:25:52.000
Woody Harrilson, the movie Stars daddy
shoot the federal judge dead on his front
338
00:25:52.039 --> 00:25:55.599
porch. I don't know if you
know that part of the story. Yeah,
339
00:25:55.799 --> 00:25:59.400
and he's still in prison, right, well he probably, Yeah,
340
00:25:59.440 --> 00:26:02.920
they let give me out a month
or two before. He had treminal cancer
341
00:26:02.920 --> 00:26:06.359
that led him out and he died
within a month of being released from prison.
342
00:26:06.599 --> 00:26:08.799
Yeah. Yeah, No, I
meant his Woody Harrelson's dad, I
343
00:26:08.839 --> 00:26:12.920
think is still in prison. But
you don't never get out from killing a
344
00:26:12.960 --> 00:26:17.680
federal judge. Yeah. Yeah,
that's like, I mean a lot of
345
00:26:17.680 --> 00:26:22.039
people don't know it, but at
that time, this was the second biggest
346
00:26:22.160 --> 00:26:26.519
federal investigation that's ever been in this
country. Was that they had two hundred
347
00:26:26.640 --> 00:26:32.240
special agents of the FBI that was
sent to Las Vegas, Nevada, to
348
00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:38.119
investigate the killing of John Woods,
a federal judge. The biggest investigation ever
349
00:26:38.319 --> 00:26:44.440
was the Kennedy assassination and the killing
of John Wood. The federal judge was
350
00:26:44.440 --> 00:26:47.880
the seconds. And that's when they
had so much heat in Las Vegas on
351
00:26:47.960 --> 00:26:52.160
all Gamma. That's when they broke
up the skim at the Sahara, I
352
00:26:52.160 --> 00:26:56.000
mean at the start of the hotel, and that's when all that came down,
353
00:26:56.039 --> 00:27:00.880
when the two hundred special agents were
here. Wow. Yeah. And
354
00:27:00.359 --> 00:27:07.200
another sort of legendary guy blowing off
money at golf was Jay Sarno. Did
355
00:27:07.279 --> 00:27:11.599
you build a part of that?
But you're one hundred percent right. They
356
00:27:11.640 --> 00:27:15.720
had a crew around the Las Vegas
Country Club that played with him every day,
357
00:27:15.759 --> 00:27:18.759
and bad as he was, they
didn't have to do this. But
358
00:27:18.839 --> 00:27:22.160
I think they had a foursome that
no matter who he drew as a partner
359
00:27:22.200 --> 00:27:26.200
that day, the other three wall
pardoners. So I don't think he had
360
00:27:26.279 --> 00:27:30.839
much of a chance. You know. I remember when I first moved to
361
00:27:30.839 --> 00:27:36.400
town in seventy seven, and you
know, I was a kid and I
362
00:27:36.440 --> 00:27:38.160
went to the there was a backam
and club at the time. I went
363
00:27:38.200 --> 00:27:41.480
to the Backam Club and the first
time I walk in there, I see
364
00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:47.799
Puggy Pearson playing somebody and who for
me was like a legend at that time,
365
00:27:47.839 --> 00:27:52.480
because I'd only read about, you
know, these people. And one
366
00:27:52.519 --> 00:27:56.720
of the guys at the Backaming Club
tells me that Puggy has just won two
367
00:27:56.799 --> 00:28:03.200
hundred thousand dollars that day playing golf
off with Jay Sarno, and the next
368
00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:08.480
week he was playing seven stud five
ten limit because he had blown off all
369
00:28:08.480 --> 00:28:14.799
the money. So it just sort
of boggled my mind. That guy was.
370
00:28:14.920 --> 00:28:18.759
You know, I had no clue
what, you know, what really
371
00:28:18.799 --> 00:28:23.920
went on when I first moved here. But what do you think the biggest
372
00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:27.839
gamble you ever took in your life
was? And I don't necessarily mean about
373
00:28:27.880 --> 00:28:33.039
money, I just mean the biggest
gamble of your life? You ever thought
374
00:28:33.039 --> 00:28:38.240
about that? You know? I
always liked to think that I was somewhat
375
00:28:38.279 --> 00:28:42.359
of a manager as a gambler,
in the words, I tried to keep
376
00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:47.519
my gambling in check to my bank
roll in it, and I think that's
377
00:28:47.559 --> 00:28:51.279
one of the keys to success.
So I made a lot of big bets
378
00:28:51.279 --> 00:28:55.039
in my life, but many big
bets. But I always tried to.
379
00:28:55.160 --> 00:28:59.839
Like the Leonard fight, betting three
hundred thousand always a big bet, and
380
00:29:00.160 --> 00:29:03.400
I had numerous bets of that night
in my life, but I always tried
381
00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:10.079
to. I always felt one thing
about gambling is your money is like your
382
00:29:10.119 --> 00:29:14.519
toolbox. In other words, when
you don't have any tools to work with,
383
00:29:14.640 --> 00:29:18.079
you're out of business. So I
always felt like the key to gambling
384
00:29:18.160 --> 00:29:23.400
success was being able to I call
it answering the bell every day. In
385
00:29:23.480 --> 00:29:26.160
the words, you got to be
able to get up and start gambling every
386
00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:32.240
day. That means you have to
keep money. So I never after my
387
00:29:32.480 --> 00:29:36.880
early years when I was very young, I never put myself in position of
388
00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:42.400
going broke again. Yeah, on
one bet like you described, but I
389
00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:49.119
mean gambles that were not about money, like gambles in your life. Where
390
00:29:49.519 --> 00:29:56.839
I did many things that were very
unsuccessful. We bought into Dole's room poker
391
00:29:56.920 --> 00:30:03.319
room, which invested I think it
was four hundred thousand and uh. Doel
392
00:30:03.440 --> 00:30:07.839
called me one day, this is
another bad beat story. Actually, well,
393
00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:11.240
no, I might be the bad
beat king with this and Doe I
394
00:30:11.319 --> 00:30:15.599
invested and we were doing very good. And this was before the Black Friday
395
00:30:15.680 --> 00:30:19.599
or whatever it was. About six
months before that happened. Door called me
396
00:30:19.599 --> 00:30:25.559
one day says, well, this
big, big sports company out of England,
397
00:30:25.599 --> 00:30:29.440
I believe it was, just offered
him two hundred million to buy us
398
00:30:29.480 --> 00:30:33.000
out. And of course my part
of that would I think I had four
399
00:30:33.039 --> 00:30:37.400
percent or whatever it was. Was
like whatever that is, I say eight
400
00:30:38.240 --> 00:30:44.359
and which was not the end of
the world. But anyway, he I
401
00:30:44.359 --> 00:30:45.480
said, well, it sounded like
a good time to sell it to me.
402
00:30:45.759 --> 00:30:48.680
He said, are you kidding?
We're gonna get a billion dollars for
403
00:30:48.799 --> 00:30:53.079
this company. Needless to say,
three months later the doors came down,
404
00:30:53.160 --> 00:30:59.200
everybody got closed up, and naturally
we got nothing. For those who don't
405
00:30:59.240 --> 00:31:03.640
know, Big Doyle's Room was an
online poker site and then all those got
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00:31:03.720 --> 00:31:10.680
shut down at some point. So
yeah, yeah, well, you know
407
00:31:10.799 --> 00:31:14.480
this has been great, Billy.
Any any other stories come to mind that
408
00:31:15.519 --> 00:31:18.319
before we before we wrap it up. No, I think that's that will
409
00:31:18.359 --> 00:31:22.000
give you a little something to dodge. Yes, Ill, and you know
410
00:31:22.160 --> 00:31:26.359
maybe some other Oh I have a
lot of stories, but maybe it's some
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00:31:26.440 --> 00:31:30.119
other time. I'll when you have
another topic, I'll give you a few
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00:31:30.160 --> 00:31:33.400
more. Okay, yeah, because
I can't get enough, so I just
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00:31:33.400 --> 00:31:37.200
want to thank you for doing this, so thanks. Just a couple of
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00:31:37.359 --> 00:31:42.640
endnotes for everybody. Billy Baxter mentioned
Jack tree Top Strauss and the chip and
415
00:31:42.680 --> 00:31:48.039
a chair, and I thought,
for anyone who doesn't know that story,
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00:31:49.240 --> 00:31:55.200
what he's talking about there. So
Jack Strauss was called Treetop because he was
417
00:31:55.200 --> 00:32:00.960
six foot six and in nineteen eighty
two, at the World Series of Poker,
418
00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:07.960
he shoved all his chips in the
pot and was eliminated, or so
419
00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:13.079
he thought. But then what happened
was when he stood up, he found
420
00:32:13.119 --> 00:32:19.000
that he still had a chip that
had been under his napkin, and in
421
00:32:19.079 --> 00:32:25.000
today's World Series that he would not
keep that chip, he would be eliminated.
422
00:32:25.079 --> 00:32:30.559
But in nineteen eighty two he sat
back down with one single chip and
423
00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:37.160
ended up winning the World Series of
Poker. And from that he said,
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00:32:37.279 --> 00:32:39.359
in this game, all you need
is a chip and a chair to win.
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00:32:40.839 --> 00:32:45.079
So anyway, that's today's show.
I hope you enjoyed it as much
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00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:50.039
as I did. You can always
reach me at Life is a Gamble Pod
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00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:55.359
at gmail dot com, or you
can find me on Twitter at RWM twenty
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00:32:55.400 --> 00:33:05.039
one. Until next time, wait
at
