An Interview With Kathy O'Connell (Rebroadcast)

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Hmm.
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Coming to you from the dining room table at East
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Barbary Lane. Welcome to a very special edition of Full
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Circle the Podcast. Last our last episode, I racked my
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brain in the morning trying to figure out what a
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useful response was to the news. There's just so much
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going on, and you know, within our own community of
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trans and gender non performing folk, there's we're playing whack
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a mole in this country, and uh, you know, we
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have another mass shooting in you of all Texas, and
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you know, there's nothing I'm going to say that that
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every raging liberals isn't saying, and I'm going to leave
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that to them. We are in the very fortunate position
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of having a dear friend who is a two time
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Peabody Award winning radio host. For thirty five years, almost
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thirty five years in Philadelphia and more than thirty five
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years throughout this country. She has hosted children's radio. She
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hosts WXPN's Kids Corner, which I you know, with the
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advent of technology, is no longer just a little local show.
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You can listen to Kids Corner almost anywhere and we'll
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provide that link. Welcome to the Full Circle Table.
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Kathy O'Connell thank you, Thank you so much. It's so
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cool to be here at your table, like I've never
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been there anywhere any time you read more. But yes,
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and thank you for that kind introduction, and I will
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try to live up to it because the fact is,
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as soon as I thought about Okay, music forbid, where
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do you go for bad times? I went back to
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and you're talking about, you know, going back a long way,
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the Challenger, and that kind of was where my go
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to comes from, which is the Rainbow Connection. The Rainbow Connection, which,
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if you've ever seen the documentary about Paul Williams who
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Will Know is the most popular song or well known
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song in the world. But it also is this self
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reflective why song about things that have no explanation and
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no answer. And the thing is, in a world where
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adults and kids are really kind of dealing with the
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same horrendous experience at once, we're all in that scene,
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but we're all you know on that you know, in
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that canoe with Kermit or however the Muppet Show starts,
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you know, goes there. But that's the fact. And it's
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times like that when kids immediately are asking, you know,
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are asking all, you know, questions that we don't have
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an answer to. Yeah, and that not only do we
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not have an answer to, but the answer we may
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have in the moment it may be so you know,
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full of emotion that we're really not doing ourselves or
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our kids. You have that much good And aren't you
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glad you asked one simple question that I just went
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off on.
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Okay, I'm going to come back to it. Do you
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even ask a question I didn't yet?
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You know, we didn't even say who we were yet.
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For I am Martha Magical and I am Charles Tyson Junior.
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Okay we got that. Yeah, Okay, there, my goodness. Thank you.
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See he pays attention to the details.
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Yeah, that's why he's the producer.
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I know, I know. I just I sit here and
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try to be pretty and you do for thank you.
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For those who don't know your show, would you give
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us an overview?
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It's a basically a call in radio show for kids.
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It's aimed at officially at ages six through twelve. I
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get them all over the place, and you know, I've
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done it so long now that I get kids who
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grew up listening to me, who are now adults who
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may have children of their own, or who may not
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have children of their own right who also definitely listen
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to me. And but uh, it started out as every
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day call ins, but technology and changes in the last
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couple of years especially, have evolved to the point where
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it's live with call ins two nights a week and
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that's me and the kids just talking to each other.
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And the rest of the time it's a mix of science,
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you know, conversations and you know, regular contributors and guests
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on a variety of subjects that are interesting to kids,
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like you know, science and pets and and you know,
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it's something that you're actually going to learn from occasionally.
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Right and book.
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But but what what it really is, it's a sales
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show that you learn from occasionally.
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We will we will get to Soupy. He's on here.
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Did you want to get to Soupy now? And just
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get that out of the now?
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Okay, not yet, but just as an explanation a part
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of my approach, Yeah.
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No, And it's and it's an amazing approach. And it's
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always fascinated me that you know, in this era of
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screen time, you know when kids are just bombarded with
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with visual things and and and they've got video games
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and they've got they've got smartphones in front of them, cocoa, lemon,
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you melon or whatever. You still have a loyal listener ship.
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I don't even know. You still have a loyal listenership
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of children who call in, who pay attention, you know,
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and get that time on the radio, either to answer
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a question or play an instrument or you know. And
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a lot of the times, I know you do have topics,
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so they're calling in to share something specific. One of
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the things I learned I never realized this as a
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kid is until I had children of my own who
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were your listeners. There's a big difference between kind of
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talking at kids and talking to kids, and that you
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are the master of talking to kids and really with them.
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That's true. Seen you do it. Yeah, Well it amazes
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me because you get them to talk. You get really
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shy children to talk to you.
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And I wish I knew how, and I kind of do.
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But because I've been thinking about this as we you know,
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came to the last few days to you know, the
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real crux of it. And I finally came to it
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while I was walking my dog, and that is I
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nobody ever talked in my family. We talked we were
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funny and witty and you know, said a lot and
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talked at each other and you you know, I can
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tell you a million stories about my family, but as
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far as talking with us about anything, and without going
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into a whole lot of detail, let's just say, my
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there's a line from All about Eve, What a story?
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Everything but the Bloodhounds snapping at a rear end. And
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that's basically my childhood. And you know, life as it
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is for so many people, and nobody in my family
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kind of ever talk to us about it. So things
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just happened and I didn't realize when I was a kid. Well,
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you know, the one thing you just know when you're
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a kid is that you are powerless, right, you know,
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because really you are. And if you don't think you
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have any power to ask, well, wait a minute, what's
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going on here? And you know what about me? If
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you don't think you have that power to ask, that
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nobody's going to give it to you, especially if they
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came from a family where nobody ever talked to each other. Right.
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So I just think maybe part of it is a
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I was always a really good babysitter, you know, I
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just really was be you know, I love to talk,
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but also no, no grown up like really ever kind
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of talk to me like that in my life, right,
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and maybe I learned from from not having it.
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And you know, my my parents are probably about ten
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years older than or younger than yours would be, so like,
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you know, but there's still that kind of depression generation.
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And they didn't they didn't include us. They you know,
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we picked up, we gleaned from their conversations and what
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we overheard, but we weren't part of the conversation. You've
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even at times brought in experts on your show, Okay
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to talk about really hard things like domestic violence and
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sexual abuse and hopefully spark conversations. And that that to
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me is incredible because it is giving children that agency
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that they don't have.
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And the vast majority of kids, as I said, you know,
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it's a call and show and it's great, and the
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interaction of me with kids, it is a lot of
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fun to listen to. But the fact is the vast
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number of kids who are listening to kids corner and
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who might get something out of what I'm doing, do
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not call and may just be the kid who's sitting
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in a bedroom in you know, the middle of nowhere
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and thinks they're nobody else like them in the world.
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And here's somebody who knows what they're talking about, right,
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talk to them and validate you, saying, yeah, you should
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not be getting hit you, you know that, just letting them
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know that, Yeah, here's somebody who knows what they're talking
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about telling you something directly. And my role in that is, Okay,
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here's somebody you know. You know, she's an idiot on
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the radio, but you know her and she's bringing her
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so there's a certain level of trust.
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Yeah, and that is amazing.
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I am grateful every day, as you know, I do do.
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I fell into this, you know.
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When when we were emailing back and forth, I mentioned
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I wear pink because I think that.
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Was the first.
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And I do wear conversation some of it, some of
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it has come from you. So I'm going to say, uh,
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there is no question and should be no question that
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Kathy O'Connell is a staunch ally to the trans community.
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My wardrobe reflects it, my heart reflects it. And you know,
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I know many of the trans folks who are now
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walking around as adults, who you have walked with over
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the years and now they're they're turning thirty, and they're vibrant,
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and they're they're out there being anarchists and shaking things up,
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rabble browsers, and I adore it. But I remember, and
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I think you brought the song to my attention because
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there was an email you had gotten pushedback. Yes, I
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think was that the first time somebody called you an
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anarchist or what was the term communist?
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Six months go by and I don't get called the communists.
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It's something you know, And I'm not flipping up to
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my union ancestors.
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Thank God for public radio.
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Yeah, and and honestly, I'm surprised I don't get a
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whole lot more complaints just because we'll get it. We'll
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get deeply into the other stuff I do play, But yeah,
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we should. Background. The song is called I Wear Pink.
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It's from a band called Hullabaloo, which is basically two
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guys from California, and the song was introduced at a
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gathering of kids independent artists KINDI Artists. We had a
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w XPN for Kindy coom and Steve Denis, the musician
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who wrote who created it, got up on stage during
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a showcase was like, I just wanted to like cut
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test out this song and I forget this is the
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audience to do it with, and it's you know it.
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The first lyrics are, you know, I play with dolls
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and I wear pink. I don't care at all what
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anybody thinks. And it's just this, you know, he is
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who he is, and I kind of think it's, you know,
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given what's come after it and the loud, proud music
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that's come out since then a few years ago, it's
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kind of middle. You know, really, this is what you're
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excited about. Because when and I got a letter, I
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got an email about it, an angry email from a parent.
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You know, I know the homosexual agenda was in there somewhere.
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You know, I know that was mentioned in there. But
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you know, and I for and this, like we said,
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thank god for Public Radio forwarded it because I'm a
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good company girl. I am. Lisa Simpson routed it to
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my bosses just to say, just so you're aware, you know,
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fallen mama commie again, should I respond? And luckily I
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also I have a program director who once said to me,
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when I responded, shall we say angrily to that? To something?
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Someone said, why don't you just respond? Thank you for
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your thoughts. And he said that to me years ago,
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and it's like, you know, so I go and I
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said to both, do you want me to say thank
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you for your You know, I'll respond if you want.
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And you know, my program director said, no, some things
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just don't deserve response if you want to, but it
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really doesn't deserve response, like you, dude, don't listen to me.
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Good thank you.
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For your thoughts.
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That sounds like bless your heart.
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Yeah, it does exactly. I didn't stop playing it. And
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and oh there's so much more. Yeah, think you're going
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to complain about I wear a pig? Oh wait, wait,
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do you hear.
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Say their names?
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Yeah?
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We are gonna. Yeah, we are going to put together
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a playlist that we will share with this episode, and
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a lot of it is now talking about trans and
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gender nonconforming kids. And you know, it's amazing to me.
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It's just amazing to me because a lot of the
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debate is around what is age appropriate, and it's like, oh,
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come on, because kids are so resilient. And you know,
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I say often, our real fight is that we are real.
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That's that's our biggest you know, because everyone coming against
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us with religion and politics is that's their premise that
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we don't really exist, we don't know ourselves, and they
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know us better. And there's all this music coming out
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for children that just says you're real, you're real, and
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you play it. There's some great stuff out.
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There I got to jump into and because truly I
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point that's what I do, that's my job, and that's
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I pointed things that some incredible people have created. And
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the fact is, if if there were not a market
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for this music, and that market is we are everywhere,
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trans families, every kid, every five year old, no a
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trans kid or no someone or no. They may not
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know the words for it yet, but they're just okay,
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it's you know, another person, it's part of who you are.
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And kids are so accepting. And the fact is, these
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are wonderful musicians who are singing from their hearts and
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you know, truly creating from their hearts. But also because
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they say, there's many more of us out there, there's
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many more parents of trans kids and allies of trans kids,
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and teachers and kids of trans people who all operate
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together and vote please us, But who exist? You know,
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Billy Tipton, look them up. Okay, Billy Tipton and if
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you're scratching your head, learn your history.
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Oh yeah, there you go.
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And we need to recognize that, you know, just because
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we try to wrap kids' brains in bubble wrap, that
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does not make them stupid. You know, they can see,
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they can hear, they know what's going on around them.
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So.
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They do.
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And another element of that to two turls is and
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this is like, there's an old joke about the kid
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who says to his you know parents, where did they
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come from? And they go into a whole song and
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dance explaining reproduction and science and blah blah, and all
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they want to know is so, you know, Joey said
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he's from Hoboken. I want you know where from? You know,
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Lily on Modern Family, my parents are gay, so I'm gay.
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She announced, I'm gay. You know it. It's like there's
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they're so you can you can send out a message
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without hitting kids and people over the head with it, right,
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and the whole Oh honey, this is how you're supposed
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to think. Genre of kids music, which thankfully has kind
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of gone by the wayside long ago, has been replaced
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and energized by this energy of more energy of real life,
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and you see it reflected in a lot of subject matter,
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including racial equality and issues of you know, issues of
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things that are being shut down all over the Oh
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you were attempted to be shut down. But you can't.
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You know, you can't stop the beat you.
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Get out of my head, lady.
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It always gets back to show tunes.
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It always does, it really does, you know. In through
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the pandemic, we actually so our bar was closed because
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normally when you're what, you know, your show is on
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at seven thirty our time or seven to eight our time,
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so we would be in the bar and we would
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be working, and you know everybody wanted to watch Jeopardy,
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right yeah, yeah, But during the pandemic, but we were
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regular listeners, and you know, I don't know how many
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times how many songs came out of what was going
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on at the moment, you know, with the you know,
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the protests and all of that, like say their names Yes,
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which made me.
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I was sitting on the couch sobby he was because
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that song was so perfect in every way.
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Yeah.
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I've learned to just put Shazam on auto when Kids
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Corner is on because because I get tired of picking
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up my phone every time I hear a song going
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what's that?
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What's that? What's that?
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And by the way, on the air, exactly exactly working.
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But you know you're my my media guru. Anyway, that's
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just another aspect of it. It's like, Wow, this is
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kid's music. Wow, I'm gonna put this on my playlist.
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Wow, you know.
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And I get to point at it. I get to
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point to the real world being done by and and
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I have to I have to give a shout out
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right now to radio we w EE and it's uncle Devin,
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who is a brilliant drummer and radio person who created
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a radio show on the pacifica station out of Washington,
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and we can we can address this today or even
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do another whole thing on this about the how white
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The Grammys were a few years ago at a time
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when a lot of music was being created by people
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of color about their own experience historically, and also then
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Black Lives Matters, you know, came to the streets where
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people came together in the streets to address some of this,
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and and the Grammys, their nominations in the kid Music
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category did not reflect the brilliance of the music being
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made that year, right, It was basically, uh, it was
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basically a bunch of white people at a time when
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some of the most brilliant music I have ever heard
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it almost forty years of kids music was being created
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by a couple of artists saw Paul Piers Freelan just
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you know, brilliant, brilliant stuff, and Hugue there's the name,
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and a lot of artists got to another and said,
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way to you know, white and black, you know, people
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of color and white said hey, wait a minute, here's
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all this great stuff, and we know it's being made
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by a real variety of people. How come it's not
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being reflected in the thing that's supposed to reflect the
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best of our industry. Right now, we can do a
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whole thing about how I do not actually believe the
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Grammys to reflect the best of our industry, and blah
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blah blah, they don't ask me, right, But and the
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good work the Grammys do and and truly do, which
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has now been magnified because as more people of color
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have entered the Grammy system and have increased the you know,
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the representation of these songs of power, of power and
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empowerment and songs that you know, black women in history uh,
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black people created stem these are actual songs, by the way. Up.
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I'll give you the playlist, you know. And Uncle Devin
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out of Radio Wei and you can find it online.
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And we love we love Uncle Devin that he plays
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everything I play. I play the music. I like he
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plays such a rich mix of music for kids of
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color because and I know you have heard me say this,
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black people got money now, and we have to stop
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approaching people of color like they're the poor relations.
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Right right right, right right, because.
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Too much media, you know, just it just does all right.
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I think this was the first year when when when
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the Grammy nominations were announced in the in the kids category,
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that you said, I'm good with whoever wins.
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Yes, I really was. And I wasn't just saying that
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to be nice, right.
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I know it was us. I mean you wouldn't have
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been there.
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You would have just said, well really, you know.
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But you had said it's come so far quickly.
379
00:24:50.079 --> 00:24:55.240
Yeah, it really did, and and it and it's not.
380
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I don't Also, I don't want to make a people.
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I don't want to make it sound like people who
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00:25:00.920 --> 00:25:04.160
have joined this genre who are not white, you know,
383
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white guys with guitars we've always been white guys with guitarists.
384
00:25:07.759 --> 00:25:09.079
You know, I don't want to make it sound like
385
00:25:09.119 --> 00:25:11.319
they're just you know, all doing this hit you over
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00:25:11.359 --> 00:25:15.720
the head with you know, politics and history and and
387
00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:22.480
all of that. There's this rich, just you know, mosaic
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00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:28.039
that the music that we are being just we are
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00:25:28.079 --> 00:25:33.720
being enriched. Fine, yes, and just so just check out
390
00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:41.640
artists who got together the All One Tribe Collective by
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00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:45.880
Aaron Nigel Smith and I you know, I'm not I'm
392
00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:51.480
go find it One Tribe Collective like there are well
393
00:25:51.559 --> 00:25:56.759
and just as the Songs for Trans and Binary Kids collection,
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00:25:57.359 --> 00:26:03.279
there are artists who are putting together or empowering collections
395
00:26:03.319 --> 00:26:08.000
of these songs and of these messages that are available
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00:26:08.119 --> 00:26:11.920
in a way directly to kids and families like they
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00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:16.759
never have been before. And by supporting the artists directly,
398
00:26:18.039 --> 00:26:20.839
you know, by their CDs. Yeah you don't have a
399
00:26:20.839 --> 00:26:23.559
CD player, Go find one, Go ask Grandma for a
400
00:26:23.559 --> 00:26:29.559
CD player. Buy there there online stuff by they can
401
00:26:29.960 --> 00:26:34.519
market and sell directly to their audience that that needs
402
00:26:34.599 --> 00:26:36.440
it and can benefit most from it.
403
00:26:37.039 --> 00:26:41.440
Oh yes, and I think you know, as the pendulum
404
00:26:41.440 --> 00:26:44.279
swings politically and right now, we're we're you know, we're
405
00:26:44.319 --> 00:26:48.720
just being inundated with with politics. I think the pendulum
406
00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:51.319
with the arts always swings, you know, kind of in
407
00:26:51.359 --> 00:26:56.319
the opposite direction to say, we're all still here too. Yeah, yeah,
408
00:26:56.400 --> 00:26:59.079
we're all still here, and we're all looking at the
409
00:26:59.119 --> 00:27:03.160
world that you are and saying, you know, we have
410
00:27:03.240 --> 00:27:06.960
to respond. And I just think it's incredible that these
411
00:27:07.000 --> 00:27:09.400
things exist. I mean, none of this existed when we
412
00:27:09.400 --> 00:27:14.160
were kids, none of it. No, no, And now it's
413
00:27:14.559 --> 00:27:15.599
pretty amazing.
414
00:27:15.880 --> 00:27:19.880
You and I have to you know, Ella Jenkins and
415
00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:24.160
Pete Seeger and Tom Paxton. I mean, there are giants
416
00:27:24.279 --> 00:27:31.279
upon whose you know, shoulders I stand of the musical community.
417
00:27:32.279 --> 00:27:34.720
But at the same time, and if I may take
418
00:27:34.759 --> 00:27:37.240
it back to a certain name we've conjured already. The
419
00:27:37.319 --> 00:27:42.599
nineteen sixty one Grammy Award nominees included Soup Be Sales
420
00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:46.640
for The Soupy Sales Show and Leonard Bernstein for some
421
00:27:46.960 --> 00:27:49.519
version of The Young People's Guide to the Orchestra that
422
00:27:49.599 --> 00:27:53.599
no real kids ever listened to, And oh guess who won.
423
00:27:54.279 --> 00:27:58.599
So the Grammys have never exactly been about what real
424
00:27:58.759 --> 00:28:01.519
kids listened to, and now it is.
425
00:28:02.119 --> 00:28:05.400
Right, that's great, that's amazing. That's the difference.
426
00:28:05.920 --> 00:28:08.880
I worked him in like at the halfway point you did.
427
00:28:09.160 --> 00:28:09.880
I'm impressed.
428
00:28:10.079 --> 00:28:11.480
It's like a skilled ye.
429
00:28:12.519 --> 00:28:13.960
Like more like a vocation.
430
00:28:14.119 --> 00:28:19.759
But okay, you I've read something that I did not
431
00:28:19.960 --> 00:28:26.559
know that when you did get started at WBA, I
432
00:28:26.599 --> 00:28:30.680
as a volunteer on the floor in nineteen seventy nine.
433
00:28:31.240 --> 00:28:36.160
It was in response two three Mile Island, Three Mile Island,
434
00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:37.000
I never knew that.
435
00:28:37.839 --> 00:28:40.960
Okay, So my friend Larry Lee there there. I was
436
00:28:41.039 --> 00:28:47.160
an orphan living in Manhattan. Yes, but my friend Larry Lee,
437
00:28:47.319 --> 00:28:51.119
who was one of the kids who hung out at
438
00:28:51.200 --> 00:28:54.599
Channel five. But you know, when Soupy Sales did his
439
00:28:54.720 --> 00:29:01.799
show there and who's very political, and it was a
440
00:29:01.799 --> 00:29:12.119
big environmental activist, three Mile Island happened and he told
441
00:29:12.240 --> 00:29:16.400
me about demonstrations that were happening, and he said, and
442
00:29:16.440 --> 00:29:18.720
you know, if you really want information, you should listen
443
00:29:18.759 --> 00:29:22.000
to you know, you should turn on w BAI. And
444
00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:26.279
I kind of vaguely knew kind of about w BAI,
445
00:29:26.400 --> 00:29:30.039
but I listened to. I hated talk radio because my
446
00:29:30.279 --> 00:29:34.000
father listened to talk radio, and anything big Tom you know,
447
00:29:34.079 --> 00:29:36.480
had anything to do with I wanted nothing to do with.
448
00:29:36.920 --> 00:29:39.480
But I was forced to listen to, like Bob Brant
449
00:29:39.519 --> 00:29:44.599
and Edin Pegeen Fitzgerald and then like people just yammering
450
00:29:44.839 --> 00:29:50.400
on AM radio in the early sixties. And it wasn't
451
00:29:50.440 --> 00:29:54.839
all Jeane Shepherd, believe me, and but it was like
452
00:29:55.319 --> 00:29:57.039
and I turned it on, I was like, wait a minute.
453
00:29:57.039 --> 00:29:59.640
People are talking to me, and smart people are talking
454
00:29:59.680 --> 00:30:04.880
to me, and sometimes stupid people are talking to me,
455
00:30:05.119 --> 00:30:08.720
and or smart people are saying stupid funny things. And
456
00:30:08.720 --> 00:30:12.359
and I started volunteering answering phone and they're always looking
457
00:30:12.440 --> 00:30:17.079
for volunteers. And I started answering phones and I said, oh, honey,
458
00:30:17.160 --> 00:30:21.240
I'm home. I walked in and basically said, honey, I'm home.
459
00:30:21.400 --> 00:30:24.799
I like what And I found a bunch of kindred
460
00:30:24.880 --> 00:30:29.400
spirits which if which if you've ever met them, could
461
00:30:29.440 --> 00:30:34.680
be for good or bad. Well, power of the medium
462
00:30:34.799 --> 00:30:40.079
of radio, the power of that solely audio medium, and
463
00:30:40.400 --> 00:30:44.920
what you could do with it, and even if it's
464
00:30:45.119 --> 00:30:49.519
just and with me, as you know, it all evolves
465
00:30:49.640 --> 00:30:53.519
around me. But I felt so good and it was
466
00:30:53.559 --> 00:30:56.640
what it brought to me by being on the radio,
467
00:30:57.240 --> 00:31:00.240
more than oh, look at what I can create year
468
00:31:00.359 --> 00:31:04.079
what wonders like? And I happened to just be really
469
00:31:04.079 --> 00:31:07.319
good at it, you know, at talking to people in
470
00:31:07.359 --> 00:31:09.720
the middle of the night nice.
471
00:31:09.720 --> 00:31:13.480
And didn't somebody walk out at w n y C.
472
00:31:14.480 --> 00:31:20.599
What didn't is considered okay. So I okay. I was
473
00:31:20.640 --> 00:31:24.480
at w b A I and I wanted to make money,
474
00:31:24.480 --> 00:31:26.519
and you put in the one thing people kept telling
475
00:31:26.559 --> 00:31:29.400
me in commercial radio was if you want to make money,
476
00:31:29.400 --> 00:31:32.799
go move somewhere and come back to New York. And
477
00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:35.720
I never do things halfway. So I moved to California,
478
00:31:36.839 --> 00:31:41.160
worked in a couple of commercial like legendary commercial stations
479
00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:45.119
actually kfat look it up, a big book on it,
480
00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:50.200
and then came back to New York and I got
481
00:31:50.240 --> 00:31:53.960
a job as a board operator, you know, running the
482
00:31:55.319 --> 00:31:58.680
as an engineer at w n y C, the public
483
00:31:58.759 --> 00:32:03.359
radio station in New York City, and I was I
484
00:32:03.400 --> 00:32:05.599
came back and right away got a show back at BAI.
485
00:32:05.759 --> 00:32:08.400
By the way I was, you know, it was still
486
00:32:08.559 --> 00:32:11.039
you know, Hail the Conquering Year. I would when I
487
00:32:11.519 --> 00:32:14.000
came back and figured out more how to talk to people.
488
00:32:14.359 --> 00:32:18.960
But and I was boardopping a show called Senior Edition,
489
00:32:20.119 --> 00:32:24.440
and I was hired by and he is now dead.
490
00:32:24.799 --> 00:32:29.200
And I believe as I was at Betty Davis, who said,
491
00:32:29.279 --> 00:32:32.960
I do not speak, I only say good things about
492
00:32:33.000 --> 00:32:37.400
the dead, So he's dead good. His name was Larry Miller,
493
00:32:37.480 --> 00:32:40.519
and he was the single worst human being I have
494
00:32:40.599 --> 00:32:44.480
ever worked for in my entire life. And I loaded
495
00:32:44.680 --> 00:32:49.759
boxes in the Lipton factory in Santa Cruz, California. So
496
00:32:50.440 --> 00:32:55.599
I put bugs out of cashoes out of plans of cashews.
497
00:32:56.039 --> 00:33:03.640
And it was not as said Miller and get and
498
00:33:04.200 --> 00:33:06.119
the thing with the board at w n y C
499
00:33:06.319 --> 00:33:10.200
was I sat in the room with Marty Wayne, the
500
00:33:10.559 --> 00:33:13.319
lovely old man who was doing senior edition. I was
501
00:33:13.359 --> 00:33:15.440
in the room with them. I'm like just a few
502
00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:19.640
feet away from him, live in the room, and I
503
00:33:19.720 --> 00:33:23.920
would play the wrong some stupid thing. I'd push the
504
00:33:23.960 --> 00:33:26.279
wrong button because I used to be really good at
505
00:33:26.279 --> 00:33:29.160
technical stuff. I am not any Morris. I believe you,
506
00:33:29.599 --> 00:33:32.279
as Charles, were really ascertaining when I bring my laptop
507
00:33:32.359 --> 00:33:38.480
over to him, just saying, here, show me what to do.
508
00:33:36.079 --> 00:33:43.400
I don't know anyway, lap for all you know, this person,
509
00:33:43.440 --> 00:33:45.680
whose name I will not say again, it was just
510
00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:49.359
a terrible human being. But he started he had a
511
00:33:49.440 --> 00:33:52.599
dream of doing a call in show for kids, and
512
00:33:52.640 --> 00:33:55.920
he wanted to call it Small Things Considered, and he
513
00:33:56.039 --> 00:34:00.119
partnered with a woman named Barbara Rosen, whose husband was
514
00:34:00.359 --> 00:34:04.000
one of the one of the hostages in Iran, and
515
00:34:04.400 --> 00:34:07.680
it was a three was it three hours? My god?
516
00:34:07.680 --> 00:34:10.199
It could have been, but they had they used like
517
00:34:10.239 --> 00:34:15.000
they had and they ran Michael JACKSON'SDT recording. They ran
518
00:34:15.039 --> 00:34:18.639
a lot of recorded programming from NPR, but it was
519
00:34:18.639 --> 00:34:22.360
a block of children's programming and part of it was Collins.
520
00:34:22.519 --> 00:34:34.000
And because he was such a mean human beings Sammy, Sammy, Sammy, Well,
521
00:34:34.039 --> 00:34:36.760
she gets angry, very angry about about when I talk
522
00:34:36.800 --> 00:34:41.239
about this person, so as you can hear. And so
523
00:34:41.360 --> 00:34:45.719
he made me do the best of Small Things Considered,
524
00:34:45.800 --> 00:34:49.280
a shortened version that ran on Saturdays. Was this part
525
00:34:49.320 --> 00:34:51.800
of my job when I got hired, No, but I
526
00:34:51.960 --> 00:34:54.199
had to do it. So I got to know the
527
00:34:54.280 --> 00:34:57.039
rhythm and everything of this stupid show that he and
528
00:34:57.079 --> 00:34:59.559
this woman did, and I got to know the library
529
00:34:59.639 --> 00:35:02.760
of me, and I got to know, you know, just everything.
530
00:35:03.320 --> 00:35:05.199
And one day I'm sitting there and part of my
531
00:35:05.320 --> 00:35:08.760
job too, was babysitting tape that back when they had tapes,
532
00:35:09.239 --> 00:35:11.760
and I was babysitting whatever tape it was of I
533
00:35:11.760 --> 00:35:14.159
think All Things Considered that you know, came in on
534
00:35:14.400 --> 00:35:20.039
a reel to reel and to Dreux and Barbara Rosen
535
00:35:20.760 --> 00:35:25.079
stormed into the studio that I'm in and started pulling
536
00:35:25.159 --> 00:35:28.519
records and started loading them into bags, and you know,
537
00:35:28.639 --> 00:35:31.599
not my records, so you know, and I haven't picked
538
00:35:31.599 --> 00:35:33.760
through them yet to take home and play on BAI,
539
00:35:34.320 --> 00:35:37.719
So I don't know what'sle with thought. And he's muttering like,
540
00:35:37.800 --> 00:35:40.079
try to do this without us, and blah blah blah,
541
00:35:40.320 --> 00:35:44.519
and they they walk out. Now, Small Things Considered was
542
00:35:44.599 --> 00:35:46.760
supposed to come on live in an hour and a half,
543
00:35:47.800 --> 00:35:50.440
and truly an hour and a half from that moment,
544
00:35:50.840 --> 00:35:53.519
and I'm just in and the tapes are running that
545
00:35:53.800 --> 00:35:56.559
I got nothing to do except watch this tape make
546
00:35:56.599 --> 00:35:58.880
sure we don't go off the air once again. I
547
00:35:58.920 --> 00:36:03.000
have an easy job and four people in suits and
548
00:36:03.679 --> 00:36:07.639
Mary Nichols, the then general manager of w n y C,
549
00:36:07.800 --> 00:36:11.920
who eventually fired me, uh well, laid me off and
550
00:36:12.039 --> 00:36:16.360
is now dead. Uh. They came in and one of
551
00:36:16.400 --> 00:36:20.599
them said we need you to help us out, and
552
00:36:20.679 --> 00:36:24.519
I said, uh huh and explained, well, you know, they
553
00:36:24.639 --> 00:36:27.320
walked off, and there's this live kids show that's about
554
00:36:27.360 --> 00:36:29.440
to I said, you let me talk. I'll do anything
555
00:36:29.480 --> 00:36:33.840
you want. And that was how me on Small Things
556
00:36:33.880 --> 00:36:37.960
Considered was born. And halfway through I said to Larry
557
00:36:38.079 --> 00:36:41.960
or Fheley, who is a lovely man, who was my partner,
558
00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:45.320
who became my partner on Small Things Considered, who was
559
00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:47.599
the program director at w n y S. Was that
560
00:36:47.800 --> 00:36:50.400
then I said to halfway through it, I said I
561
00:36:50.440 --> 00:36:54.519
want to do this, and I got the job and
562
00:36:54.639 --> 00:36:57.920
Small Things Considered, which won its own Peabody Award.
563
00:36:58.760 --> 00:36:59.239
Mm hmmm.
564
00:37:00.760 --> 00:37:05.280
Beget a national show called Kids America where they brought
565
00:37:05.320 --> 00:37:07.639
in all suddenly they had a whole lot of money
566
00:37:09.000 --> 00:37:14.039
and to pay everybody but you know me, And then
567
00:37:14.440 --> 00:37:18.800
we got canceled on Christmas Eve nineteen eighty seven, and
568
00:37:19.119 --> 00:37:23.079
Kids Corner started January fourth, nineteen eighty eight. Okay, out
569
00:37:23.119 --> 00:37:32.719
of all that, find something, Yeah, that all saga.
570
00:37:31.039 --> 00:37:34.000
Where I was going, And I love that story. It's
571
00:37:34.280 --> 00:37:38.199
you know, it's the serendipity of it all. Yes, and
572
00:37:38.639 --> 00:37:41.000
you know, but the fact that you came to radio
573
00:37:42.519 --> 00:37:45.079
as a result of a tragedy and all of these
574
00:37:45.159 --> 00:37:48.320
things happened as a result. It's like once you're where
575
00:37:48.360 --> 00:37:53.159
you belong and you're kind of aligning with just what
576
00:37:53.199 --> 00:37:55.320
you're here to do, kind of you know. I mean,
577
00:37:55.360 --> 00:38:00.400
really that's your story. Those things all happened, and then.
578
00:38:00.280 --> 00:38:04.159
You figure out who you are, and kids figure out
579
00:38:04.400 --> 00:38:08.440
who they are. You know, some some of them do like,
580
00:38:08.559 --> 00:38:12.880
you know, really young. But once you figure out, you know,
581
00:38:13.000 --> 00:38:16.239
it's true. It's like I, you know, once that thunderbolt
582
00:38:16.320 --> 00:38:21.840
hits there it is and falling into this. I mean,
583
00:38:21.920 --> 00:38:24.239
I was really good at radio, and I was really
584
00:38:24.239 --> 00:38:27.519
you know, I did you know I could still do it,
585
00:38:28.280 --> 00:38:31.039
you know, if things go south here, I could still
586
00:38:31.079 --> 00:38:34.119
do rock n roll, you know, Jock and all of that.
587
00:38:34.639 --> 00:38:37.920
But the kids thing is something that really stuck.
588
00:38:38.599 --> 00:38:40.639
Well, I said to you, and I you know, I
589
00:38:41.639 --> 00:38:44.920
remember texting you after well while it was on because
590
00:38:44.920 --> 00:38:49.360
it was taped for International Women's Day. It was just
591
00:38:49.519 --> 00:38:52.639
the first time I had ever heard you not doing
592
00:38:52.880 --> 00:38:57.840
your kids show, and it was brilliant. The music you curated,
593
00:38:57.960 --> 00:39:01.920
it was the story you told. I was like, of course,
594
00:39:01.960 --> 00:39:06.280
she can do this, she can do anything on the radio.
595
00:39:07.039 --> 00:39:10.079
But it really was. It was great. It was great.
596
00:39:10.360 --> 00:39:12.599
I had so much fun to do with that. Oh
597
00:39:12.639 --> 00:39:16.519
I played Julie Brown. Yeah, I like him big and stupid.
598
00:39:16.760 --> 00:39:18.159
How could it not be great?
599
00:39:18.960 --> 00:39:23.000
It was so much fun and just the mix of
600
00:39:23.119 --> 00:39:25.639
music and the knowledge that you brought, Like, you know,
601
00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:28.920
it's really the crux of what XPN is about, and
602
00:39:28.960 --> 00:39:32.639
it's what you do with kids music. And I'm just
603
00:39:32.760 --> 00:39:35.199
used to that. But I was like, well, damn well,
604
00:39:35.280 --> 00:39:38.480
damn right.
605
00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:42.559
I come from and if I may start bringing him
606
00:39:42.639 --> 00:39:48.480
up a little bit, my media dad, my professional dad,
607
00:39:48.559 --> 00:39:53.320
in many ways, my second personal dad was Soupy Sales. Now,
608
00:39:53.400 --> 00:39:55.760
when you read up on the life of Soupy Sales,
609
00:39:55.880 --> 00:39:59.440
so many things in his life happened because it was
610
00:39:59.760 --> 00:40:03.599
just job. I still a joke. Was it was a job?
611
00:40:04.280 --> 00:40:06.480
And why did you play your why did you bring
612
00:40:06.519 --> 00:40:09.599
in your jazz music collection to use on your show?
613
00:40:09.840 --> 00:40:12.360
That's all I had. I didn't have any money. So
614
00:40:13.119 --> 00:40:18.519
and much like Soupy give this improvisational you know, you
615
00:40:18.679 --> 00:40:23.079
gotta be ready because it's a job, and you know,
616
00:40:23.320 --> 00:40:26.960
just to have be ready at any moment for anything,
617
00:40:27.159 --> 00:40:29.880
and you know kind of that that has paid off.
618
00:40:29.920 --> 00:40:33.800
Also a line from Funny Girl, which is the moment
619
00:40:34.679 --> 00:40:40.559
when Barbara streisand And in this version is asked you
620
00:40:40.639 --> 00:40:44.639
can roller skate, can't you? And she says can I
621
00:40:45.039 --> 00:40:49.679
roll or skate. It's basically how you have to approach everything.
622
00:40:49.800 --> 00:40:53.320
It's a job. But I learned to be, you know,
623
00:40:53.440 --> 00:40:56.599
quick on my feet, which I am not otherwise, you know,
624
00:40:56.679 --> 00:41:02.239
because I believe of and seeing and his influence and
625
00:41:03.519 --> 00:41:04.239
a lot of him.
626
00:41:05.119 --> 00:41:08.480
Well, you know, And I realized as I was thinking
627
00:41:08.519 --> 00:41:13.880
about this interview, part of what I did as a
628
00:41:13.960 --> 00:41:20.360
parent was, you know, just keep things routine, keep things going,
629
00:41:20.440 --> 00:41:23.159
because you know, my kids went through a lot of
630
00:41:23.199 --> 00:41:28.639
funerals and they were young, and but it was, yes,
631
00:41:28.679 --> 00:41:32.480
we're really sad. Yes this is hard, and I need
632
00:41:32.519 --> 00:41:34.679
you to do your homework, you know what I mean,
633
00:41:35.079 --> 00:41:37.480
and we're going to do it together. And it was
634
00:41:37.559 --> 00:41:39.519
just that. And bedtime is still nine point thirty. And
635
00:41:39.559 --> 00:41:43.599
that's because there's comfort in that for kids to have
636
00:41:43.840 --> 00:41:44.480
that routine.
637
00:41:44.679 --> 00:41:51.079
Yes, a bedtime, well, bedtime of what.
638
00:41:51.280 --> 00:41:54.079
Know, I think, knowing what to expect, I always.
639
00:41:54.639 --> 00:42:00.920
Remember Also again here we back back to my childhood grandmother.
640
00:42:01.400 --> 00:42:05.039
I never went to sleep before the eleven o'clock news
641
00:42:05.199 --> 00:42:10.880
was over, and I never asked about anything. So there
642
00:42:10.960 --> 00:42:17.480
were gorillas fighting us, Yeah, in Vietnam. Gorilla's mine view.
643
00:42:17.760 --> 00:42:20.960
I know exactly what you're talking about because I did Florida.
644
00:42:21.119 --> 00:42:24.719
Every year we drove to Florida on vacation. I started
645
00:42:24.719 --> 00:42:27.599
sleeping under the covers with the covers pulled over my
646
00:42:27.679 --> 00:42:31.079
head because Fidel Castro was going to burst into our
647
00:42:31.159 --> 00:42:35.039
motel room at the Sahara Motel in Miami Beach, because
648
00:42:35.599 --> 00:42:40.400
nobody ever and when also when I did have a
649
00:42:40.440 --> 00:42:44.639
reaction to something like a house blew up in the
650
00:42:44.679 --> 00:42:49.199
housing development next to ours blew up, and I got
651
00:42:49.239 --> 00:42:52.639
really scared of the stove to the point was like,
652
00:42:52.760 --> 00:42:55.000
I wouldn't go in the room if the if the
653
00:42:55.000 --> 00:42:58.239
flame of the stove was on. And I love my mother,
654
00:42:58.280 --> 00:43:02.280
and please do not judge her, only so many worse
655
00:43:02.320 --> 00:43:06.079
things to judge her by. But she finally had enough
656
00:43:06.400 --> 00:43:09.800
really quickly, and she's like, oh, you jack ass, come
657
00:43:10.079 --> 00:43:15.239
And she just gave me no choice but to get
658
00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:18.639
over it, right, which, honestly, when you get when you
659
00:43:18.679 --> 00:43:20.920
have no other choices, and so bad because you could
660
00:43:20.960 --> 00:43:22.039
do kind of learn to move on.
661
00:43:24.280 --> 00:43:26.880
Yeah, where I was trying to go, I'm you.
662
00:43:26.920 --> 00:43:30.079
Never will get a chance to go anywhere. High editor,
663
00:43:30.159 --> 00:43:30.920
good luck.
664
00:43:34.920 --> 00:43:39.639
You. You you stayed on the radio through the pandemic. Yeah,
665
00:43:40.039 --> 00:43:44.679
talking to kids, and I I told I wanted you
666
00:43:44.719 --> 00:43:47.280
to have a third Peabody for that period of time.
667
00:43:48.719 --> 00:43:51.679
Just talk about that, talk about because you've really had
668
00:43:51.679 --> 00:43:56.000
some interesting new conversations and you made it kind of
669
00:43:56.079 --> 00:43:58.159
okay for things to be so weird.
670
00:43:59.239 --> 00:44:00.400
Yeah. Well, and.
671
00:44:03.840 --> 00:44:08.519
I'm thinking Halloween in particular. But the whole thing you
672
00:44:08.559 --> 00:44:10.760
talked about, you know, Okay, it's going to be different
673
00:44:10.800 --> 00:44:13.880
this year. But oh, tell me what you did, or
674
00:44:13.960 --> 00:44:15.639
tell me what your parents did.
675
00:44:15.840 --> 00:44:18.559
Beauty of live radio is just you live in the moment.
676
00:44:18.679 --> 00:44:25.119
Then you go yeah, yeah, the thing and we're all
677
00:44:25.159 --> 00:44:27.639
still going through this. Let's read about this is all
678
00:44:27.679 --> 00:44:32.800
still a process while we're as a community, as a society,
679
00:44:32.840 --> 00:44:36.199
you're all going through it. This may be the biggest
680
00:44:36.400 --> 00:44:41.639
thing ever in this generation's lives. This may be the
681
00:44:41.760 --> 00:44:49.239
molding thing of this generation of children, the pandemic kids,
682
00:44:49.400 --> 00:44:55.320
and how this is the they haven't known anything else, right,
683
00:44:56.360 --> 00:44:59.760
and we know that now because it lasted for so long.
684
00:45:02.679 --> 00:45:09.320
I don't know why we immediately when the announcement was
685
00:45:09.440 --> 00:45:12.840
made that you know, everything was going to shut down,
686
00:45:14.280 --> 00:45:17.719
our immediate response was, Okay, well we're going to stay
687
00:45:17.800 --> 00:45:21.440
live two days a week, where we're going to maintain
688
00:45:22.239 --> 00:45:28.599
that connection and primarily because it was live and something
689
00:45:28.599 --> 00:45:32.039
you could count on and something regular and as normal
690
00:45:33.039 --> 00:45:38.760
as could be in a completely abnormal, insane time. And
691
00:45:38.840 --> 00:45:43.639
I think it is vital for us as grown ups,
692
00:45:44.280 --> 00:45:48.800
like don't scare kids. But at the same time, we
693
00:45:48.840 --> 00:45:53.920
all went through this together, and yeah, your life really
694
00:45:54.039 --> 00:45:59.840
did change many times in an awful, awful way. And
695
00:46:00.199 --> 00:46:05.119
not seeing your grandmother, not being with people you love,
696
00:46:05.719 --> 00:46:08.960
not getting to go to the games that are really
697
00:46:09.000 --> 00:46:15.199
important to you, or graduate she's not again, she's not
698
00:46:15.320 --> 00:46:22.280
happy with this, that this was something we all lived
699
00:46:22.400 --> 00:46:30.320
through together and as parents found their way through whatever.
700
00:46:30.440 --> 00:46:35.400
This is going to be the most the most flower
701
00:46:35.679 --> 00:46:42.480
the most powerless, and yet most flexible creatures are kids.
702
00:46:43.440 --> 00:46:47.840
So you tell them, Okay, you're gonna learn from this. Now,
703
00:46:48.119 --> 00:46:50.920
we're gonna make this happen in this and oh, by
704
00:46:50.920 --> 00:46:53.559
the way, parents who have no idea what you're doing,
705
00:46:54.079 --> 00:46:58.119
we can bring in a few resources for you here
706
00:46:58.159 --> 00:47:01.719
on the radio that maybe you could go check out.
707
00:47:02.119 --> 00:47:07.159
It's a tiny bit, but it's what we do. You know.
708
00:47:07.480 --> 00:47:11.800
Just let's maintain something. Let's talk about the rainbows that
709
00:47:12.480 --> 00:47:15.800
I'm seeing on my walk with Tammy. Let's talk about
710
00:47:15.800 --> 00:47:19.400
the rainbows I'm seeing, you know, people make in windows,
711
00:47:20.679 --> 00:47:26.320
and you know, they were I would share projects that
712
00:47:26.400 --> 00:47:31.800
people were coming up with as they emerged more. God,
713
00:47:34.039 --> 00:47:36.519
I know we were really good. But again I do
714
00:47:36.719 --> 00:47:39.119
like it really.
715
00:47:41.039 --> 00:47:44.039
And you know, the thing I remember is just you know,
716
00:47:44.119 --> 00:47:47.400
kind of talking about the creativity like this, this is
717
00:47:47.559 --> 00:47:51.159
very different, but it doesn't it doesn't have to be bad.
718
00:47:51.880 --> 00:47:54.880
So you know, yeah, we're going to be home and
719
00:47:54.920 --> 00:47:57.239
it's going to be like maybe we are having a
720
00:47:57.320 --> 00:48:01.199
zoom call with our grandmother and you know, you talk
721
00:48:01.280 --> 00:48:04.280
to kids about that, like how what's different about birthdays?
722
00:48:04.400 --> 00:48:04.639
Now?
723
00:48:04.920 --> 00:48:07.039
How do you know what's different? And what did you do?
724
00:48:07.199 --> 00:48:10.679
And one of the things that now it's coming back
725
00:48:10.760 --> 00:48:14.679
to me, I thought it was really important to validate
726
00:48:14.760 --> 00:48:20.639
truth that I'm learning the new way of living, and yeah,
727
00:48:20.679 --> 00:48:25.400
we can get through this, you know. But you know,
728
00:48:25.760 --> 00:48:35.679
pandemics are easy. Comedy is hard, right, you know, Like, really,
729
00:48:35.960 --> 00:48:40.360
we can only lay so much doom and gloom while
730
00:48:40.400 --> 00:48:42.920
we are in the middle of a doom and gloom situation.
731
00:48:43.079 --> 00:48:47.599
We can only lay so much on kids without expecting
732
00:48:47.639 --> 00:48:52.000
them to act out, to snap a little. So like
733
00:48:53.239 --> 00:48:57.679
there's a balance that every grown up has to maintain
734
00:48:58.119 --> 00:49:02.400
of I am scared to death. I don't want to
735
00:49:02.480 --> 00:49:07.280
scare you to death. That we all have to have
736
00:49:07.400 --> 00:49:11.639
had to learn to maintain. And part of it, I
737
00:49:11.679 --> 00:49:14.719
hope is opening up more dialogues in families with parents
738
00:49:14.719 --> 00:49:16.199
and kids, because I think that is one of the
739
00:49:16.199 --> 00:49:19.920
things that came out is that a lot of parents
740
00:49:20.519 --> 00:49:26.519
did have more opportunities to form whome like new relationship
741
00:49:26.599 --> 00:49:28.079
you know, you know what I mean, a whole new
742
00:49:28.199 --> 00:49:29.639
level of their relationships.
743
00:49:29.880 --> 00:49:33.679
Well that suddenly everyone was home. Yeah, yeah, yeah, suddenly
744
00:49:33.679 --> 00:49:36.000
everyone was home, and it really did open up. I
745
00:49:36.039 --> 00:49:40.599
think a lot of conversations, uh, you know, we of
746
00:49:40.639 --> 00:49:43.360
course they think we're just I don't know, it's a trend,
747
00:49:43.440 --> 00:49:48.400
but I mean there's a real there's a reality to
748
00:49:48.880 --> 00:49:54.000
the trans community growing in that a whole bunch of
749
00:49:54.039 --> 00:49:58.239
adult humans, you know, that suddenly had nothing but time
750
00:49:58.760 --> 00:50:02.639
said I can't go on like this anymore. I'm not busy,
751
00:50:02.679 --> 00:50:04.960
I'm working at home, I'm sitting with myself. And I
752
00:50:04.960 --> 00:50:07.360
think that that was true for a lot of families,
753
00:50:07.400 --> 00:50:11.360
and I'm hoping, you know, I hope the overall effect
754
00:50:11.480 --> 00:50:14.239
was positive. You know, we talked about some of the
755
00:50:14.559 --> 00:50:17.639
situations where if it was tough, it got tougher where
756
00:50:17.679 --> 00:50:22.360
the kids didn't have the outlet of school. But overall,
757
00:50:22.400 --> 00:50:26.960
I think, you know, we're having different and better conversations.
758
00:50:28.239 --> 00:50:32.000
What I love about your show and the way that
759
00:50:32.039 --> 00:50:37.639
you have approached things over the years is your reality based. Yeah,
760
00:50:37.719 --> 00:50:42.159
I mean, like you didn't there was no conversation about well,
761
00:50:42.199 --> 00:50:44.199
maybe don't wear a mask. You have played the song
762
00:50:44.239 --> 00:50:49.159
wear your Mask, you know, like, like, no, we follow science,
763
00:50:49.280 --> 00:50:54.280
We talked to scientists and you know that's right now,
764
00:50:54.320 --> 00:50:55.480
that's so refreshing.
765
00:50:56.440 --> 00:51:01.360
Yeah, it is. There's a lot of for not being
766
00:51:01.519 --> 00:51:09.000
an actual educator at the time when education is very
767
00:51:09.119 --> 00:51:12.599
much under attack. There's a lot to be said for
768
00:51:12.679 --> 00:51:19.480
being an enhancement to education and resource well, right.
769
00:51:19.400 --> 00:51:22.400
And how do we even I don't even know how
770
00:51:22.440 --> 00:51:25.159
we talk to teachers. We know that they're leaving, We
771
00:51:25.239 --> 00:51:28.000
know that they are switching professions left right, especially in
772
00:51:28.039 --> 00:51:32.679
places like Florida. Oh yeah, I wouldn't want the job
773
00:51:33.159 --> 00:51:34.679
nor now exactly.
774
00:51:35.119 --> 00:51:40.719
And on top of everything else, you know, I think
775
00:51:40.760 --> 00:51:42.960
it's one of the bravest things in the world to
776
00:51:43.000 --> 00:51:45.760
be a parent who sends your kid to school every day.
777
00:51:45.800 --> 00:51:50.920
You've got to be scared to death teacher and to
778
00:51:51.800 --> 00:51:56.440
one minute be blamed for the degradation of the fall
779
00:51:56.480 --> 00:51:59.400
of the Roman Empire, you know, and then a week later, Oh,
780
00:51:59.840 --> 00:52:02.000
we're going to teach you. We're gonna give you a gun,
781
00:52:02.320 --> 00:52:04.719
and you're gonna be you know, you're gonna be in
782
00:52:04.800 --> 00:52:10.280
charge of keeping your kids alive. No, no, no, no, no. Yeah.
783
00:52:10.280 --> 00:52:12.119
I saw TikTok and the person was like, you don't
784
00:52:12.119 --> 00:52:13.960
even trust teachers with books?
785
00:52:14.039 --> 00:52:20.599
Yeah, yeah, you know, you whine and complain about teachers,
786
00:52:20.840 --> 00:52:25.079
and you know you you, but you stick your your kids.
787
00:52:25.079 --> 00:52:28.840
They're they're in charge of your kids learning things that
788
00:52:28.960 --> 00:52:32.400
probably you should be to your basic humanity, you should
789
00:52:32.480 --> 00:52:35.800
probably be teaching them at home very often. Right, you
790
00:52:36.000 --> 00:52:41.320
get me started, and I have wonderful parrots to listen
791
00:52:41.360 --> 00:52:41.760
to me.
792
00:52:42.599 --> 00:52:45.800
You do you do, and a lot of them you've
793
00:52:45.800 --> 00:52:46.480
helped raise.
794
00:52:47.400 --> 00:52:52.480
Yes, what poisoning young line since nineteen eighty eight? Do
795
00:52:52.639 --> 00:52:54.880
a T shirt that says that, I was.
796
00:52:54.800 --> 00:52:57.079
Just gonna say that would be a good shirt.
797
00:52:57.559 --> 00:52:59.079
I'd wear that. Oh, I'd wear that.
798
00:52:59.159 --> 00:53:02.079
Crowd Back when we used to spend a lot more
799
00:53:02.119 --> 00:53:06.320
time in restaurants and even in the bar that we owned,
800
00:53:07.960 --> 00:53:11.199
there were very few times that someone didn't approach our
801
00:53:11.239 --> 00:53:14.880
table and say, excuse me, I'm so sorry to interrupt,
802
00:53:14.880 --> 00:53:17.480
but you're Kathy O'Connell, because they just would hear you
803
00:53:18.159 --> 00:53:20.599
and then I'll never We were sitting at the bar
804
00:53:20.719 --> 00:53:23.719
we owned and it was an open mic night and
805
00:53:23.760 --> 00:53:26.559
this guy got up and he's like, I'm sorry, but
806
00:53:27.440 --> 00:53:32.880
is Kathy O'Connell here? And then he'd spent you know,
807
00:53:33.000 --> 00:53:35.079
the first five minutes of his time talking about I
808
00:53:35.159 --> 00:53:37.559
called in and I won a prize once and it
809
00:53:37.719 --> 00:53:42.119
just changed my life. And it was like, but you
810
00:53:42.159 --> 00:53:44.960
know that used to car all the time, all the time,
811
00:53:46.760 --> 00:53:53.039
back in the days when a little more normal when I.
812
00:53:53.119 --> 00:54:01.400
Was out and about when I used to go out.
813
00:54:00.719 --> 00:54:02.000
In the long ago time.
814
00:54:03.159 --> 00:54:05.199
And that's the thing, one of the one of the
815
00:54:05.320 --> 00:54:08.199
and I I hate that I finally have broken down
816
00:54:08.239 --> 00:54:11.400
in doing this, but one of the phrases I have
817
00:54:12.039 --> 00:54:15.280
tried to banish from my life and ideas that I
818
00:54:15.480 --> 00:54:18.000
sadly have tried to banish from my life is back
819
00:54:18.079 --> 00:54:22.639
to normal because it will never be what it was before.
820
00:54:23.599 --> 00:54:28.679
You know, the I see that the the open Asian
821
00:54:28.760 --> 00:54:32.039
food bar at Wagbans is again open like a salad
822
00:54:32.079 --> 00:54:33.599
bar and I'm like, oh, well, how long is that
823
00:54:33.679 --> 00:54:40.480
going to last? Basic changes that have happened in our lives,
824
00:54:40.559 --> 00:54:44.719
that whatever, and it's a chance to maybe do it
825
00:54:44.760 --> 00:54:46.280
better this time. Right.
826
00:54:46.360 --> 00:54:48.159
I was going to say, there's a lot of things
827
00:54:48.239 --> 00:54:51.960
that we came to terms with that we realized weren't
828
00:54:52.000 --> 00:54:53.400
really that great before.
829
00:54:54.039 --> 00:54:56.480
There's no real need to go back to that. Yeah,
830
00:54:56.599 --> 00:55:01.719
you know, yeah, hugging arbitrary, hugging.
831
00:55:03.840 --> 00:55:06.280
The little mini power struggled. That is a handshake.
832
00:55:06.960 --> 00:55:10.079
We love hugs among people we love. But you know,
833
00:55:10.280 --> 00:55:12.920
maybe maybe it was out of control. Yeah, maybe it was.
834
00:55:13.920 --> 00:55:17.599
And I'm not going to tell any tales out of school,
835
00:55:17.679 --> 00:55:21.679
but there was a recent professional gathering at a place
836
00:55:21.760 --> 00:55:25.920
I am familiar with. Then I went to a party
837
00:55:27.039 --> 00:55:31.880
and people are are hugging me for really you know,
838
00:55:32.000 --> 00:55:35.639
I know, I'm adorable, and these you were like, you know,
839
00:55:36.280 --> 00:55:41.800
never mind, don't hug I'm elderly. Okay, I'll put that
840
00:55:41.880 --> 00:55:45.199
on a loop. By the way, justly I thought it
841
00:55:45.320 --> 00:55:49.719
was I thought it was on a loop. Well, no,
842
00:55:49.800 --> 00:55:58.320
you thought I was just loopy. Okay, you know, hey,
843
00:55:58.360 --> 00:55:59.320
this is your idea.
844
00:55:59.840 --> 00:56:09.320
It was You're right, it was it was. I said,
845
00:56:09.559 --> 00:56:12.039
you know, I had the thought. What brought me the
846
00:56:12.079 --> 00:56:14.559
thought was I thought of mister Rogers, because I really
847
00:56:14.639 --> 00:56:16.840
was struggling with us. We were about to record, and
848
00:56:16.880 --> 00:56:21.360
I'm like, look to the helpers, look to the helpers.
849
00:56:21.440 --> 00:56:23.800
And you've been a helper for a very long time,
850
00:56:23.880 --> 00:56:27.920
and you do, I think responsibly and well, use the
851
00:56:27.960 --> 00:56:34.440
familiarity you have with children to talk about some difficult topics,
852
00:56:34.599 --> 00:56:37.800
to bring certain things to light, and to provide a
853
00:56:37.800 --> 00:56:43.320
certain continuity. And yeah, I do. I am asking for
854
00:56:43.400 --> 00:56:47.119
your wisdom just overall in talking to these parents who
855
00:56:47.159 --> 00:56:50.360
are frightened, these teachers who have had it and are frightened,
856
00:56:51.320 --> 00:56:54.559
and these kids. Because you know when it when this
857
00:56:54.639 --> 00:56:59.039
kind of scary stuff reaches a classroom, don't I don't
858
00:56:59.079 --> 00:57:02.159
think it gets more in then that that's supposed to
859
00:57:02.199 --> 00:57:03.440
be a safe space.
860
00:57:04.920 --> 00:57:10.119
And the thing is, we all live with the reality
861
00:57:10.400 --> 00:57:15.239
that now there really is no safe space. We each
862
00:57:15.400 --> 00:57:20.079
live in it in our own way and whatever you know,
863
00:57:20.480 --> 00:57:28.159
gathering or in whatever way right, we have to create
864
00:57:28.880 --> 00:57:32.480
our own safe spaces because there are fewer and fewer
865
00:57:32.519 --> 00:57:34.840
of them going forward. And that is one of the
866
00:57:34.880 --> 00:57:41.280
things that you know, not so much the pandemic, but
867
00:57:41.360 --> 00:57:44.440
just real life has has just you know, has changed.
868
00:57:45.360 --> 00:57:47.039
You know, you walk into a room, you look for
869
00:57:47.079 --> 00:57:51.360
the exit sign. Now kids have to live with that.
870
00:57:51.880 --> 00:57:57.079
And this is the thing. There's a line again show Tunes.
871
00:57:57.119 --> 00:58:00.480
There's a line from in the in the Heights where
872
00:58:00.559 --> 00:58:04.480
Kevin says to his daughter, So this is where you
873
00:58:04.679 --> 00:58:09.559
do better than me because you can see a future
874
00:58:09.719 --> 00:58:17.159
that I can't. And kids still can see a future.
875
00:58:17.880 --> 00:58:21.920
You're working basically with somebody who you know is all future,
876
00:58:23.000 --> 00:58:26.840
but it's getting less and less unlikely and out of reach.
877
00:58:27.239 --> 00:58:33.519
And if you're you know, powerless to begin with, and
878
00:58:33.599 --> 00:58:38.800
the great dreams that you heard here adults talk about
879
00:58:39.440 --> 00:58:44.159
are just non existent for you. Hopefully you're going to
880
00:58:44.239 --> 00:58:48.199
start crafting your own dreams and places to make those
881
00:58:48.880 --> 00:58:55.239
dreams come true safely. And I'm not saying there should
882
00:58:55.239 --> 00:58:59.719
be a revolution of young people, but there is going
883
00:58:59.800 --> 00:59:02.599
to be. They will take over and the seeds that
884
00:59:02.679 --> 00:59:10.239
we are planting in talking to them and giving them information.
885
00:59:11.280 --> 00:59:14.559
And there used to be, oh god, what was it called?
886
00:59:15.159 --> 00:59:18.320
There was an approach to education which was all about
887
00:59:18.440 --> 00:59:24.400
problem solving and oh what was it? Cognitive learning? There
888
00:59:24.440 --> 00:59:26.599
was a phrase to it. And of course, because I
889
00:59:26.599 --> 00:59:28.639
am not an educator, I can't come up with it,
890
00:59:29.159 --> 00:59:31.800
and it's like that went out the window. And the
891
00:59:31.840 --> 00:59:34.599
next thing I know, natural selection is being taught in
892
00:59:34.639 --> 00:59:40.840
a science class at Arkansas as science. Right. So you
893
00:59:40.920 --> 00:59:45.119
know the thing is they're gonna find out that you're
894
00:59:45.280 --> 00:59:49.599
lying to them and it's not gonna be pretty.
895
00:59:50.480 --> 00:59:50.760
Yeah.
896
00:59:50.800 --> 00:59:56.119
So you know, how about talking with them and finding out,
897
00:59:56.440 --> 00:59:59.480
you know, what is going on and where you can
898
00:59:59.519 --> 01:00:03.079
find common ground to work for whatever you know tomorrow
899
01:00:03.239 --> 01:00:03.760
is left?
900
01:00:04.840 --> 01:00:07.039
Yeah? How important is history to you?
901
01:00:07.599 --> 01:00:08.320
How important? What?
902
01:00:08.960 --> 01:00:11.119
How important is the teaching of history?
903
01:00:11.519 --> 01:00:15.519
Oh? Vital vital? The most important thing to learn is
904
01:00:16.079 --> 01:00:23.119
actual history. Howard's inn should be taught in every classroom.
905
01:00:25.079 --> 01:00:29.199
There is a magazine series I think it's for kids,
906
01:00:29.199 --> 01:00:33.239
actual Well it's for families called hard History, okay, and
907
01:00:33.440 --> 01:00:42.360
looking at real history. Tulsa massacre. Yeah, you know, suffragettes
908
01:00:42.920 --> 01:00:47.559
getting beaten Black suffragettes? Who are they? You know the
909
01:00:47.599 --> 01:00:56.440
reality of what happened historically, just so we can go
910
01:00:56.599 --> 01:00:59.840
forward and make sure it doesn't happen again or happens
911
01:00:59.840 --> 01:01:04.639
in a different way. You know, triangle shirt waste, factory
912
01:01:04.760 --> 01:01:11.639
fire made a difference. Right Now, everything gets done overseas
913
01:01:11.679 --> 01:01:17.400
where we have no control over workers, you know, situations,
914
01:01:17.440 --> 01:01:22.639
so we have to kind of craft our reality going forward.
915
01:01:23.639 --> 01:01:29.480
Yeah, yeah, yeah, speaking of history.
916
01:01:30.079 --> 01:01:30.440
Oh, I.
917
01:01:31.920 --> 01:01:33.800
Said, I wanted to end this on a good note
918
01:01:33.800 --> 01:01:39.159
because it's such it's so much fun. Your biggest inspiration,
919
01:01:41.039 --> 01:01:41.639
Let's talk.
920
01:01:41.519 --> 01:01:45.119
About him, Let's talk about him. So I turned on
921
01:01:45.199 --> 01:01:48.840
the TV one day nineteen sixty four and my life
922
01:01:48.960 --> 01:01:53.559
changed because there was a guy named Soupy Sales on TV.
923
01:01:53.840 --> 01:01:59.480
And the first joke I remember was somebody said to him,
924
01:01:59.519 --> 01:02:02.639
mister s don't do, don't don't speak, mister Sales, don't
925
01:02:02.639 --> 01:02:05.719
to do. The walls have ears, And there was a
926
01:02:05.760 --> 01:02:08.960
pan of a wall and it was covered with the ears,
927
01:02:09.199 --> 01:02:11.400
and I thought it was the funniest thing I ever
928
01:02:11.480 --> 01:02:15.880
saw in my life. And he did reference and he
929
01:02:16.039 --> 01:02:20.800
had a big old dog grunted at him who he
930
01:02:20.960 --> 01:02:26.159
directed with. But at the same time, he looked directly
931
01:02:26.440 --> 01:02:31.920
at the camera and talked to me in a way
932
01:02:33.719 --> 01:02:37.679
that I mean. Other kids show hosts were great, Sunny Fox,
933
01:02:37.760 --> 01:02:43.039
Chuck McCann, Sandy, Sharry Lewis, But not where Okay, you
934
01:02:43.079 --> 01:02:46.360
know you are talking to Ah. I am ready to
935
01:02:46.440 --> 01:02:50.840
follow you wherever. And so Soupy Sales was on TV
936
01:02:50.960 --> 01:02:54.360
in New York from nineteen sixty four to nineteen sixty
937
01:02:54.400 --> 01:03:00.840
six and on New Year's Eve nineteen sixty On New
938
01:03:00.880 --> 01:03:03.960
Year's Day nineteen sixty six, he had to work live.
939
01:03:04.559 --> 01:03:10.039
He was forced to work live, and he had a
940
01:03:10.119 --> 01:03:12.599
minute and a half to fill and he looked into
941
01:03:12.639 --> 01:03:15.840
the camera and he said, kids, now, I know your
942
01:03:15.840 --> 01:03:18.840
parents were out late last night and they're probably sleeping,
943
01:03:18.880 --> 01:03:21.360
and I want you to go into their room as quietly,
944
01:03:21.440 --> 01:03:23.760
be very quiet, and I want you to go into
945
01:03:23.840 --> 01:03:27.360
their wallets, your dad's wallet, your mom's purse, and take
946
01:03:27.400 --> 01:03:31.039
out the little green pieces of paper with quick pures
947
01:03:31.199 --> 01:03:34.679
of men with beards on them, and I want you
948
01:03:34.800 --> 01:03:39.360
to send it to Soupy Sales, and I'll send you
949
01:03:39.400 --> 01:03:42.159
a postcard from Puerto Rico. And he got tie in
950
01:03:42.159 --> 01:03:43.880
the face and that was the end of the show.
951
01:03:44.519 --> 01:03:47.960
He got suspended for two weeks. He got suspended for
952
01:03:48.000 --> 01:03:50.960
two weeks for that. No kid in America thought it
953
01:03:51.039 --> 01:03:54.639
was for real. And to the rest of his life,
954
01:03:54.639 --> 01:03:58.239
he continued to get dollar bills in the mail because
955
01:03:58.519 --> 01:04:01.639
I used to open his mail and find them. But
956
01:04:01.880 --> 01:04:05.719
while he was suspended, one of the articles about the
957
01:04:05.800 --> 01:04:09.880
suspension talked about the group of kids, the group of
958
01:04:09.960 --> 01:04:14.239
teenagers who came to the studio every day to be
959
01:04:14.360 --> 01:04:16.960
part of the audience of his show, and a light
960
01:04:17.000 --> 01:04:20.599
bulb went off on my Long Island suburban brain, and
961
01:04:20.639 --> 01:04:23.760
I said I could go, say watch his show. And
962
01:04:24.039 --> 01:04:29.159
on May twenty seventh, nineteen sixty five, Ascension Thursday, for
963
01:04:29.239 --> 01:04:35.000
the first time, I went to Channel five and basically
964
01:04:35.079 --> 01:04:37.599
hung out at the studio, saw the Soupy Sales show,
965
01:04:37.880 --> 01:04:42.599
came back as often as my babysitting money would let me,
966
01:04:43.440 --> 01:04:49.239
and basically the next five years of my life revolved.
967
01:04:49.440 --> 01:04:54.000
We had a group of kids eventually, which whittled down
968
01:04:54.039 --> 01:04:57.320
to about five of us who built our lives basically
969
01:04:57.360 --> 01:05:02.679
stalking Soupy Sales, following him every where, learning how to
970
01:05:02.840 --> 01:05:09.760
decipher airport schedules. Now this is nineteen sixty seven, sixty eight,
971
01:05:10.280 --> 01:05:12.840
and we're figuring out, well, if he's going to go
972
01:05:12.880 --> 01:05:15.280
to LA to do the Carol Burnett show, we could
973
01:05:15.360 --> 01:05:19.639
go to JFK and meet him and see him. He
974
01:05:19.679 --> 01:05:22.639
has no part of this. He knows us, and you
975
01:05:22.679 --> 01:05:25.119
know we're the gang to him, but we're just like
976
01:05:25.239 --> 01:05:30.480
our lives were built around him. I spent the college
977
01:05:30.559 --> 01:05:34.719
money my grandmother had saved for me by working in
978
01:05:34.760 --> 01:05:38.320
a hat factory. I spent it to go to Atlanta
979
01:05:38.440 --> 01:05:42.000
in nineteen sixty eight with Donna Goulder to see him
980
01:05:42.079 --> 01:05:45.199
do Finian's Rainbow for two weeks.
981
01:05:46.159 --> 01:05:46.400
Nice.
982
01:05:46.559 --> 01:05:50.239
And then at one point I discovered a life of
983
01:05:50.280 --> 01:05:52.800
my own. But you know, I would find things over
984
01:05:52.840 --> 01:05:55.159
the years and mail them to him because I knew
985
01:05:55.199 --> 01:05:57.760
exactly where he lived because we are out in front
986
01:05:57.800 --> 01:06:02.719
of his house, right. And I reconnected with him in
987
01:06:02.920 --> 01:06:08.239
like about two thousand and two, And actually I reconnected
988
01:06:08.280 --> 01:06:12.360
with him previously, since doing the kids stuff and since
989
01:06:12.400 --> 01:06:16.079
having you know, news articles about me. And he did
990
01:06:16.119 --> 01:06:20.280
an appearance in Philly that I came out to and
991
01:06:20.320 --> 01:06:22.360
I gave him a bunch of my clippings and he
992
01:06:22.440 --> 01:06:24.639
was like, I got to see him all proud. But
993
01:06:25.960 --> 01:06:29.039
and again, editor, you can you can skip to this
994
01:06:29.079 --> 01:06:33.719
part now. In two thousand and two, I reconnected with
995
01:06:33.840 --> 01:06:38.760
Supie and actually met his wife, Trudy Carson Sales, and
996
01:06:39.559 --> 01:06:44.960
we kind we connected on a point where they became
997
01:06:45.000 --> 01:06:50.320
my second parents. Yes, and I was with him when
998
01:06:50.320 --> 01:06:56.559
he died. I you know, I had the great gift
999
01:06:57.000 --> 01:06:59.760
of he had nothing to do but sit there and
1000
01:06:59.800 --> 01:07:02.719
talk to me. He was retired, She's in the kitchen cooking,
1001
01:07:02.880 --> 01:07:08.639
and I got the great gift of just having him
1002
01:07:08.760 --> 01:07:15.159
talk to me and just remembering things. Maybe he was
1003
01:07:15.199 --> 01:07:20.159
remembering correctly, maybe he wasn't, but sharing things with him,
1004
01:07:20.199 --> 01:07:23.920
Watching Bird with him, watching the movie Bird with the
1005
01:07:23.960 --> 01:07:26.639
man who knew all these jazz guys.
1006
01:07:26.800 --> 01:07:28.599
Yeah, which I still have to see, like.
1007
01:07:28.719 --> 01:07:33.920
You know, was just you know, incredible, and he it
1008
01:07:34.079 --> 01:07:38.719
was for me. I got to see in the eyes
1009
01:07:38.800 --> 01:07:42.199
of someone who knew me since I was thirteen years old.
1010
01:07:42.719 --> 01:07:47.119
I got to see the proud dad look in his
1011
01:07:47.320 --> 01:07:50.800
eyes that I never got to see from my family
1012
01:07:50.840 --> 01:07:54.199
because they were all dead. They had no look at all.
1013
01:07:54.840 --> 01:07:57.119
So that was one of the there were a lot
1014
01:07:57.159 --> 01:07:58.679
of like I used to say to him all the time,
1015
01:07:58.760 --> 01:08:02.199
thank god I wasted my life fund you, as it
1016
01:08:02.320 --> 01:08:05.360
turned out, you know, yeah, thank god I wasted my
1017
01:08:05.440 --> 01:08:08.519
life on him. There. So you start there and you
1018
01:08:08.599 --> 01:08:14.280
work backwards or that's the end of that piece, Okay.
1019
01:08:16.840 --> 01:08:20.119
And I got to meet I never got to meet Soupie,
1020
01:08:20.119 --> 01:08:22.600
but I got to meet truly shortly after he died.
1021
01:08:23.199 --> 01:08:25.399
And uh, and she is his mom.
1022
01:08:26.399 --> 01:08:28.199
And you got to meet White Fang and black Tooth.
1023
01:08:29.079 --> 01:08:30.800
Yeah, absolutely again.
1024
01:08:31.119 --> 01:08:34.159
And I walked into their bar that night after I
1025
01:08:34.199 --> 01:08:37.359
had done an interview, a TV interview, so I was
1026
01:08:37.399 --> 01:08:39.000
all made up and I wanted to show you how
1027
01:08:39.039 --> 01:08:41.279
good I looked. And I brought white Fag and black
1028
01:08:41.279 --> 01:08:43.520
tooth with me to the show. And there was a
1029
01:08:43.560 --> 01:08:44.960
guy I'd never met in my life.
1030
01:08:45.760 --> 01:08:52.000
Yes, white oh yeah, he was totally mad. I'm such
1031
01:08:52.000 --> 01:08:54.640
a fan. Oh my god. Yeah.
1032
01:08:54.880 --> 01:08:57.439
Yeah, he took his pictures with white Fag. It was great.
1033
01:08:57.920 --> 01:08:59.319
That's right, that's right.
1034
01:08:59.479 --> 01:09:01.439
And I have I think because one night I was
1035
01:09:01.520 --> 01:09:05.760
leaving Soupy and Trudy's apartment and Trudy waves a baggie
1036
01:09:06.119 --> 01:09:08.319
at me and says, do you want to take home
1037
01:09:08.319 --> 01:09:11.319
white thing in black tooth? And I said no, too
1038
01:09:11.359 --> 01:09:16.439
much responsibility and he said take take and so he
1039
01:09:16.479 --> 01:09:17.079
gave them to me.
1040
01:09:17.640 --> 01:09:26.239
Yeah. Wow, camp. Can we talk about the project that
1041
01:09:26.319 --> 01:09:28.159
Rowan University is working on? Can?
1042
01:09:28.399 --> 01:09:32.720
Yes? Oh, I'd love to. I love uh my plan.
1043
01:09:33.600 --> 01:09:36.800
It hasn't completely happened yet, but I have gotten interest
1044
01:09:37.279 --> 01:09:40.359
from the TV and Radio department at Rowan University and
1045
01:09:40.399 --> 01:09:44.760
they are doing something quite remarkable there. They are building
1046
01:09:46.680 --> 01:09:55.279
a world class television history and Radio History Archive, and
1047
01:09:56.239 --> 01:09:59.359
to that end, I know they have how do you
1048
01:09:59.439 --> 01:10:03.039
duty collect? Because David B. And Cooley, a media writer,
1049
01:10:03.279 --> 01:10:07.720
wonderful TV writer, is involved with it as well. And
1050
01:10:07.960 --> 01:10:10.760
the head of the department is a colleague of an
1051
01:10:10.760 --> 01:10:18.760
old colleague of mine for w XPN, And he was
1052
01:10:18.800 --> 01:10:21.119
over one day and I kind of just showed him
1053
01:10:21.600 --> 01:10:23.880
a lot of stuff I have brought home over the
1054
01:10:24.000 --> 01:10:27.680
years from their house and stuff I bought on eBay
1055
01:10:27.800 --> 01:10:30.439
and things like that over the years. But an enormous
1056
01:10:30.479 --> 01:10:40.399
collection of soup, these archives and scripts and just stuff articles,
1057
01:10:40.439 --> 01:10:47.680
just the history his his career, and I am donating
1058
01:10:48.720 --> 01:10:54.960
a whole lot of him there so future generations, Like
1059
01:10:55.159 --> 01:10:58.680
I have heard for so so many years, you should
1060
01:10:58.680 --> 01:10:59.920
write a book, you should write I'm not going to
1061
01:11:00.039 --> 01:11:02.520
write a book, but somebody is going to write a book,
1062
01:11:02.560 --> 01:11:07.039
some that really commit they'll use me a complete, you know,
1063
01:11:07.399 --> 01:11:11.840
book about him, and there will be all this stuff
1064
01:11:13.680 --> 01:11:18.079
that you know that would and I'm just very happy.
1065
01:11:18.159 --> 01:11:20.840
And and I'm also you know, like donating so my
1066
01:11:20.880 --> 01:11:23.520
gun smoke collection and just there's gonna be a lot
1067
01:11:23.560 --> 01:11:25.960
less stuff in my house and I'm very happy about that.
1068
01:11:27.560 --> 01:11:32.880
The important part is TV history and the role of it,
1069
01:11:35.119 --> 01:11:42.119
not just in what it gives to the people who
1070
01:11:42.239 --> 01:11:46.960
watch it or each generation who who discovers it, but
1071
01:11:47.079 --> 01:11:51.279
how it influences those people who create what you know,
1072
01:11:51.359 --> 01:11:54.960
the next generation. Uh get So you gotta you gotta
1073
01:11:55.039 --> 01:11:59.520
keep going back to duty and Sharry Lewis and and
1074
01:11:59.520 --> 01:12:03.560
and super Sales to see where everything comes from.
1075
01:12:04.399 --> 01:12:08.319
And mister Rogers, Oh yeah, what was the movie mm
1076
01:12:08.399 --> 01:12:10.680
hmm that Soupy had never seen?
1077
01:12:12.000 --> 01:12:16.479
Oh the crowd? Oh okay, so face of the crowd, everybody,
1078
01:12:16.880 --> 01:12:19.239
when this is finished. I'm not telling you go right now,
1079
01:12:19.399 --> 01:12:21.399
but when this is finished, go watch a face in
1080
01:12:21.439 --> 01:12:26.600
the crowd Andy Griffith's greatest performance. Yes, I'm serious, I agree.
1081
01:12:26.800 --> 01:12:30.640
I agree about a guy named Lonesome Roads. So okay,
1082
01:12:31.000 --> 01:12:34.039
So it's coming on and I'm like all excited, and
1083
01:12:34.399 --> 01:12:37.359
you know, Soupy sitting next to me in his wheelchair.
1084
01:12:37.600 --> 01:12:41.239
Trudy's in the kitchen making incredible food, and I'm like, oh,
1085
01:12:41.279 --> 01:12:43.279
it's a face in the crowd. This is great, you know,
1086
01:12:43.720 --> 01:12:46.359
and he's like, I've never seen what are you kidding me?
1087
01:12:46.439 --> 01:12:48.720
You've never seen what? How have you never seen? A
1088
01:12:48.760 --> 01:12:53.000
face of the crowd. It's about early television, and he said,
1089
01:12:53.640 --> 01:13:01.159
I was busy making early television and so I'm to
1090
01:13:01.359 --> 01:13:05.119
the end. He was like that that was the beauty.
1091
01:13:05.520 --> 01:13:09.039
No matter how much things were shutting down, you know,
1092
01:13:09.199 --> 01:13:13.800
with his body, I could still we could still have
1093
01:13:14.159 --> 01:13:17.439
that have that connection, and that was a really great gift.
1094
01:13:17.479 --> 01:13:19.680
To the end. You say to him, you would say
1095
01:13:19.720 --> 01:13:22.720
to him, are you comfortable? I make a nice living.
1096
01:13:26.279 --> 01:13:29.520
And you know, maybe that is one of the key
1097
01:13:29.560 --> 01:13:36.880
takeaways is humor. And you know we have to We've
1098
01:13:36.880 --> 01:13:39.079
got to find the places and the ways to laugh.
1099
01:13:39.199 --> 01:13:42.039
And I mean, you know, it's how the three of
1100
01:13:42.119 --> 01:13:45.800
us survived through the pandemic. We found what was fun.
1101
01:13:45.800 --> 01:13:48.800
Was the bubble and one of the beauties. And truly
1102
01:13:48.880 --> 01:13:52.279
this kind of gets back to the beginning. Very good
1103
01:13:52.319 --> 01:13:57.319
place to stop. But we can find our communities in
1104
01:13:57.319 --> 01:14:00.880
a whole new ways that were not open to the
1105
01:14:01.000 --> 01:14:04.119
three of us when you were kids. If I had
1106
01:14:04.239 --> 01:14:09.119
known this soupy community existed and I could continue to
1107
01:14:09.279 --> 01:14:14.560
interact with them online, you know, during those times when
1108
01:14:14.560 --> 01:14:17.640
I had to live with my real life in you know,
1109
01:14:17.880 --> 01:14:21.319
miserable public high school, I have had that if I
1110
01:14:21.319 --> 01:14:27.840
had known, Okay, no matter what, there's these people over here. Now,
1111
01:14:28.840 --> 01:14:31.880
remember you could also have a community of serial killers
1112
01:14:32.800 --> 01:14:37.600
that way, and there were some aspects of not soupy,
1113
01:14:37.720 --> 01:14:43.479
but let's say people around soupye who were more unsavory
1114
01:14:43.720 --> 01:14:45.520
than how about that?
1115
01:14:48.279 --> 01:14:53.479
It is amazing. I am. I am constantly in love
1116
01:14:53.520 --> 01:14:56.199
with the young people I meet today because by and large,
1117
01:14:56.560 --> 01:15:00.239
they're so much more open to one another. There so
1118
01:15:00.359 --> 01:15:03.840
much kinder to one another. And you know, things like
1119
01:15:04.000 --> 01:15:07.760
gender and sexuality are just a given. Like you tell
1120
01:15:07.800 --> 01:15:10.399
me who you are, and I believe you and I
1121
01:15:10.479 --> 01:15:15.880
accept you. And it is a different world. And anytime
1122
01:15:15.920 --> 01:15:18.720
I think there's progress, there are always going to be
1123
01:15:18.720 --> 01:15:21.600
some people that are afraid of progress and they're going
1124
01:15:21.640 --> 01:15:22.800
to try to stand in the way.
1125
01:15:23.880 --> 01:15:28.079
Yeah but okay, I already did. You can't stop the beat?
1126
01:15:28.720 --> 01:15:30.880
Well no, but but that's the fact.
1127
01:15:31.520 --> 01:15:32.800
I think that's where we're going.
1128
01:15:33.760 --> 01:15:38.439
You can't, you can't. And you know, no matter how
1129
01:15:38.640 --> 01:15:42.039
many times Rumpel still skin and flower and it jumps
1130
01:15:42.119 --> 01:15:44.399
up and down and makes laws and says, you can't
1131
01:15:44.479 --> 01:15:48.920
do this, you can't, you can't, And you know you
1132
01:15:48.960 --> 01:15:55.079
can find ways to get the information out there. Yeah,
1133
01:15:55.239 --> 01:15:58.640
hit the catacombs. Oh wait, that's the Catholic School education
1134
01:15:58.720 --> 01:16:01.319
to cover it through again get it out.
1135
01:16:01.199 --> 01:16:05.000
There, and now, I mean, you know, this is one
1136
01:16:05.039 --> 01:16:06.760
of the other reasons I really wanted to do this.
1137
01:16:08.279 --> 01:16:11.520
Your show is not just a Philadelphia show, right, We
1138
01:16:11.560 --> 01:16:12.279
can RelA.
1139
01:16:12.600 --> 01:16:16.560
Yep XPN dot org. You can listen live, you know,
1140
01:16:17.199 --> 01:16:23.520
Monday through Thursday, but also there are shows archived there.
1141
01:16:23.960 --> 01:16:28.800
There's also a series that I did for adults called
1142
01:16:28.880 --> 01:16:33.720
Kathy Chats that started up during the pandemic about a
1143
01:16:33.840 --> 01:16:36.520
variety of topics. Again, I do it live and then
1144
01:16:36.520 --> 01:16:39.760
I forget it, so you know, go go listen and
1145
01:16:39.800 --> 01:16:40.920
tell tell me what it was.
1146
01:16:41.079 --> 01:16:44.159
And we can link to all of these things in
1147
01:16:43.319 --> 01:16:45.439
the notes of this episode.
1148
01:16:45.560 --> 01:16:47.960
Yes, well, one of the things I'm looking forward to
1149
01:16:48.439 --> 01:16:52.319
is I'm doing a series with someone I love called
1150
01:16:52.479 --> 01:16:55.000
Kathy talks to her trans kid. My trans kid is
1151
01:16:55.000 --> 01:16:59.800
like pushing forty, so you know, but I look forward
1152
01:16:59.800 --> 01:17:03.640
to that and it's mostly him sitting there telling me
1153
01:17:03.720 --> 01:17:09.039
what I've done wrong, which is always nice. Oh hey,
1154
01:17:09.800 --> 01:17:12.399
one of the greatest gifts he has given me to
1155
01:17:12.680 --> 01:17:15.239
And I was bragging about this forever. I used to
1156
01:17:15.279 --> 01:17:19.359
brag how after he came out to me, how much Wow,
1157
01:17:19.479 --> 01:17:22.079
it really doesn't matter, does it? And I was kind
1158
01:17:22.079 --> 01:17:25.680
of proud of feeling that way, except that kind of
1159
01:17:25.760 --> 01:17:30.439
dishonored what was very important to him. And I never
1160
01:17:30.520 --> 01:17:34.560
realized that, and I very much realize it now. So
1161
01:17:35.920 --> 01:17:39.000
I get a lot out of the Kathy chats. So
1162
01:17:39.159 --> 01:17:43.319
I'm hoping others will as well, and each of us
1163
01:17:43.560 --> 01:17:47.000
is constantly evolving. Nice.
1164
01:17:47.000 --> 01:17:50.680
I hope, yeah, we are. We are. I hope that
1165
01:17:50.720 --> 01:17:52.800
you will come back. There are so many things we
1166
01:17:52.840 --> 01:17:53.600
can talk about.
1167
01:17:54.359 --> 01:17:58.960
Maybe, I don't know, I think we've got yeah, really exactly,
1168
01:17:59.000 --> 01:18:02.560
because you know they'll be some horror up ahead. Well,
1169
01:18:03.239 --> 01:18:08.960
Rainbow I'm telling you, throw on Rainbow Connection. Parents. If
1170
01:18:09.000 --> 01:18:12.039
there's like, if there are questions where you know, I
1171
01:18:12.039 --> 01:18:14.760
don't know why this happens and I'm upset to and
1172
01:18:14.960 --> 01:18:19.920
I don't know, throw on Kermit the Frog or any
1173
01:18:20.039 --> 01:18:24.840
version of Rainbow Connection therein and just listen to it,
1174
01:18:25.479 --> 01:18:29.840
you know, together and you'll get through it.
1175
01:18:30.760 --> 01:18:34.079
Yeah, yeah, yeah, together, That's how we do it.
1176
01:18:34.680 --> 01:18:38.520
And make your own together, find an adult you trust,
1177
01:18:39.079 --> 01:18:41.399
and if you got to make your own together, that's
1178
01:18:41.439 --> 01:18:42.000
what you'll do.
1179
01:18:43.000 --> 01:18:46.039
Beautiful. On that note, I want to thank you so
1180
01:18:46.159 --> 01:18:49.960
much for joining us. I am worth a Madrigal.
1181
01:18:49.600 --> 01:18:51.199
And I am Charles Tyson Jr.
1182
01:18:51.880 --> 01:18:55.279
And thank you so much Kathy O'Connell for spending time
1183
01:18:55.319 --> 01:18:56.000
with us today.
1184
01:18:56.239 --> 01:19:00.000
Thank you, I love you. I'm going to go buy
1185
01:19:00.199 --> 01:19:06.279
S donuts. Yay bye bye.
1186
01:19:07.680 --> 01:19:11.119
Full Circle is a Never Scured Productions podcast hosted by
1187
01:19:11.199 --> 01:19:14.800
Charles Tyson Junior and Martha Madrigal, produced and edited by
1188
01:19:14.880 --> 01:19:19.199
Never Skurd Executive Produced by Charles Tyson Junior and Martha Madrigal.
1189
01:19:19.560 --> 01:19:23.880
Our theme and music is by The Jingle Bears. All names, pictures, audio,
1190
01:19:23.920 --> 01:19:27.039
and video clips are registered trademarks and or copyrights of
1191
01:19:27.079 --> 01:19:28.760
their respective copyright holders.