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Welcome to Frictionless Marketing, where we explore the latest
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trends and challenges in the world of marketing and beyond.
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Today's episode brings you a deeply moving and powerful story that sheds light
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on the struggles faced by those living with chronic illnesses and the systemic
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barriers in our healthcare system.
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Our host, Paul Dyer, CEO of /prompt, sits down with Sri Ramaswami,
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Vice President and Head of US Pharmaceuticals Communications for GSK.
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Sri shares the heartbreaking yet inspiring journey of Salathiel, a
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young woman diagnosed with lupus right after her high school graduation.
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From battling severe health issues and financial burdens to confronting
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the limitations of rural healthcare, Salathiel's story is a poignant
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reminder of the urgent need for health equity and systemic change.
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Stay tuned as we dive into the challenges and initiatives aimed at bridging
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these gaps and making healthcare more accessible and compassionate for everyone.
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Live from Fierce Pharma PR and Comm Summit East.
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Sri, welcome to the show.
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Thank you.
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For those who were not able to be here today, didn't get a chance to hear
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your keynote at the Fierce Pharma PR and Communications Summit, it was a
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really powerful testimony to the impact you're having at GSK, which started
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out with Salathiel's personal story.
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Do you wanna maybe give our listeners a small overview of
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the story you shared today?
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Absolutely, Paul.
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Thank you again for having me on the podcast.
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I'm really honored to be able to share Salathiel's story
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because it's so compelling.
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She was diagnosed with lupus as a teenager and faced many of the same challenges
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that others must deal with every day.
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She turned her journey into a crusade and her goal is to inspire others to action.
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It was a very inspirational story.
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Talk to us a little bit more about the impact this story's had on
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your outlook or approach from a communications function perspective.
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Sure.
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Salathiel's story absolutely demonstrates the power of storytelling.
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I think a lot of people may be able to relate to her journey.
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When we can make those connections, the empathy that follows can open eyes,
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elevate awareness, and change behaviors.
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Salathiel's story reinforces the kinds of stories we should be sharing.
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Stories that are authentic and moving.
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You started with her path to diagnosis, then you fast forwarded twenty years,
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and you talked about how Salathiel's health has evolved, how some of the
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challenges she faces today are different.
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I think you referred to her today as a warrior.
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What have you or GSK learned from this?
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Today, she still faces the waxing and waning of the disease, Paul.
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Some days she feels good and some days she doesn't.
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Because she's sharing her story broadly, she has built a network of support.
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The reality is many lupus patients continue learning about their disease
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throughout their lifetime because new symptoms may surface years later.
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There is no consistency, so having conversations and resources of the ready
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makes it a little easier to move forward.
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Well, can you talk about some of maybe the specific difficulties
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she or someone like her encounters?
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Particularly living in a rural area with limited access to specialized care?
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It could be a limited number of medical specialists.
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For some, clinical trials may be the only access to care that they have.
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But clinical trials are often hosted at large academic
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centers, often in big cities.
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It could be technology.
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If they don't have stable wifi, then even telehealth options may not be possible.
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It may even be that there aren't as many retail pharmacies which
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carry the medicines that they need.
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Awareness could be an obstacle because there may not be as much
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opportunity to expand knowledge.
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This could be because nonprofit organizations don't have a presence.
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Educational campaigns may not reach them.
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Major events like health fairs are not likely to be organized there.
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Now Sri, I'm just realizing it could be that there's a lot of people listening
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that don't know exactly what lupus is, or maybe they've heard of it, but
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they're not really familiar with why it's so difficult to diagnose or why it's
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such a unique and burdensome disease.
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Can you talk a little bit about that for people who may not be familiar with lupus?
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I'm glad you asked the question.
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Lupus is difficult to diagnose because this chronic disease exhibits a wide
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variety of symptoms that resemble other diseases and other conditions.
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It presents differently in different people.
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It's an autoimmune disease, so your body is attacking itself and can cause damage
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to cells, tissues, organs, or systems.
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This also can happen at any time, which is frightening.
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The symptoms could be sporadic, or years later you may develop a new symptom.
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According to the Lupus Foundation of America, the average time to
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a lupus diagnosis is six years.
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But for women of color, that time can take much longer.
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Think about that.
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Yeah, in your story from Salathiel, it sounds like she was diagnosed
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very quickly, but it was a very painful process regardless.
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Can you talk about maybe what are some of the symptoms or
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complications associated with lupus that patients like Salathiel endure?
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It is complex, Paul.
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Patients cope with strokes, increased risks of heart attacks along with
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fatigue, joint pain, chest pain, skin lesions, even memory loss.
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One of your main points today was that the health system was not
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serving Salathiel or people like her.
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And you made a point of referring to her as, I'm not gonna call her a
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patient, I'm gonna call her a person.
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Can you maybe talk a little bit about the, what are the issues and gaps in care
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that would contribute to her struggles or struggles of other lupus patients?
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When we think of systemic issues, we think about policy that needs to
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change and biased practice standards that lead to health disparities.
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The result of this is people of color have a much longer window to diagnosis
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and then suboptimal treatment.
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We know the impact of this.
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Black women with lupus, regrettably, die up to thirteen years earlier
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than white women with lupus.
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I don't think I heard that number earlier.
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That is shocking.
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It certainly is.
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So what, from an action standpoint, as communicators, of course, we have
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to draw awareness to these things.
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It's also on us to try to spur action.
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So what initiatives is GSK investing in to help address these
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issues, address the prevention or complications of a disease like lupus?
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As I said before and at my talk, we need to meet people where they
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are so we can build connections.
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We've teamed up with the National Basketball Retired Players
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Association and the Houston Rockets for the last two seasons.
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We knew we could get in front of a lot of people who may not normally attend
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a health fair by doing this, and we could give them information about
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lupus, talk to them about the risks, the symptoms, even the challenges.
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We heard from three people who went to their doctors right after these
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events and were diagnosed with lupus.
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And this may sound like a small number, but in the scheme of the disease
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and the number of people who get the disease, it's pretty significant.
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And so we know that the message is resonating.
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That's great.
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I mean, that's a real example of improving public health.
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What about access to quality care, especially in these rural areas?
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Are there things you're doing at GSK to help increase access to quality care?
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Or maybe in some ways improve the negative social determinants
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of health, which is another big theme in your conversation today?
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Yeah.
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I did talk about access and about addressing negative social
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determinants of health and also about reducing systemic barriers.
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We are pushing to expand the capabilities of staff like nurses,
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pharmacists, and social workers because they're accessible to more than
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doctors, to more people than doctors.
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Some may not know, but in the healthcare system, the social worker's
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whole job is to remove barriers to wellness and barriers to care.
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We're also leveraging data to identify areas with
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concentrated health disparities.
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This gives us an opportunity to have meaningful impact.
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And you also, you talked about a three pillar approach at GSK.
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Can you talk about the three pillar approach and your efforts
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to reduce systemic barriers?
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Absolutely.
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Some of the barriers have been around for decades, so we know we
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needed this multi-pronged approach to focus on the root causes.
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Our first pillar is addressing the negative social determinants of health.
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We want to look at the different factors that can prevent someone
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from getting medical care.
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Is it transportation?
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Is it access to doctors, limited disease awareness, not understanding the risks?
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The second pillar is access to quality care.
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Is a person able to get to a healthcare professional, and
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how knowledgeable is that HCP?
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We have a team working with HCPs to close knowledge gaps in disease
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states or cultural competencies.
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Our third pillar is addressing systemic barriers such as racism or discrimination.
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Is the person facing a bias in their treatment?
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Thank you for walking through that.
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I know this next question is kind of loaded but in your view, how can our
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listeners support health equity and help contribute to this vision of
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a more equitable healthcare system?
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It's a great question, Paul.
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I would say be open to conversations.
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It's all about learning and it's about listening.
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One of our efforts involved hosting an innovation challenge at a
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Hispanic Serving Institution or HSI.
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The students at Florida International University learned about vaccinations
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and then gave a presentation on how to educate their communities.
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What we saw was many of the students learned about the power
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of prevention for the first time.
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They then went and spoke to their families as part of their
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research, and those conversations opened up even more conversations.
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That's what we wanna see.
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So Sri, first of all, this has been great.
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I really appreciate you laying this out for our listeners, folks who
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weren't able to be here, what was a tremendous conference, and you
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being the keynote presentation.
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I'm gonna wrap with two questions, okay?
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So the first is we're gonna ask big picture in just a second.
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If you're gonna give your past self some advice, what would that advice be?
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But first, let's wrap up our keynote here.
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So what do you think is either the most important takeaway, or just the
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thing that if someone was gonna take away one point that you would want
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to emphasize what would that be?
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I think, as I mentioned during my keynote, people can't be what they can't see.
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And therefore, it's so important that if you want to effectuate change in
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the community and make health equity real and relevant and impactful,
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you have to go into the community and meet people where they are.
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I think that's so critical.
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I think also from what you saw today, not just in my speech, but
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also the panel discussion, I think it takes a village to do this.
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No one can solve the problems of health equity on their own.
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I think it's really important for us to collaborate, to ideate, to
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try new things, and yeah, we're not always gonna get it right.
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We may fail sometimes.
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But what do we learn from those failings and those failures that we
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can apply toward a more equitable world where everyone can thrive?
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I think that's all really powerful and that you can't be what you can't see.
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Just it touches on so many levels.
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This idea of going into the communities, it's really important
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as a takeaway as more and more and more of our work becomes digitized.
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And we live primarily in our industry, in urban centers.
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We start to look at the world through a screen.
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Yes.
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Correct.
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What you're saying is you gotta see the people.
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And see them in their environment.
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Exactly.
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I think that's just a really powerful reminder.
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So thank you.
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And now, alright, so the doozy.
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We're getting away from keynote now.
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[Sri chuckling] But as I'd mentioned, walking through your introduction.
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You obviously have had a very successful career.
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You're in a position of great influence within our industry.
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A lot of people listening would probably aspire to a career like yours.
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So, if you were gonna give your past self one piece of advice, what would you say?
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When I think about the most important role that, or advice I can give perhaps
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to people based on my own past, I would say it reminds me of the quote
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from Goethe who said, "we must always change, renew, and rejuvenate ourselves.
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Otherwise we harden."
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It's important in an industry like ours, frankly in life, change
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is an inevitable part of life.
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And I once saw a very impactful and strong piece of writing that
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said, "We believe in change, but not in changing what we believe."
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And the reason why that is so important to me, and if I could perhaps go back
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to my younger self or my past self, why those words are so important is
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because when you realize that change is an inevitable part of life, but that
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you are uncompromising in your values, then you're able to drive real change.
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I look at it even through the health equity lens.
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I don't, in fact, think that it is different from everyday life in the
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sense that we are at an inflection point in healthcare and other things where we
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know that we can't leave people behind.
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The risk of doing that, the opportunity cost of doing that is high.
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So the industry's gonna constantly change.
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Medicines are gonna change.
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Innovations are gonna change.
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New things will come into the market.
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Other things will go.
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The question is how do you ride that wave of change without
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compromising your values?
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Well, and that, especially at a time of tremendous change.
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Correct.
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Which I would argue, throughout my whole career people have talked
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about every year is a time of change.
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But not like this.
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Exactly.
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After the pandemic, with all of the social change going on, the
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technological change, this is really good advice, remaining centered.
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But not getting stuck.
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Correct.
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Right, that idea of not hardening.
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Well, said.
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That's really, really great.
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So, thank you, Sri, for sharing Salathiel's story and for some of
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your own story, and also just for the vital work that you're leading at
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GSK to address some of these issues.
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It's been a great conversation.
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It was very well received today.
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And I know that our listeners are gonna be thrilled to hear it.
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So thank you.
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And for our listeners, thank you for tuning in to this episode
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of Frictionless Marketing.
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Remember, as Sri has reminded us all, we all have a role to play in creating
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more equitable healthcare system.
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So until next time, stay engaged, listening, open, changing but not
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hardening, and be back with you soon.
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Thanks Sri.
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Thank you, Paul.
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Thank you so much for your time.
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Thank you for listening to this episode of the Frictionless Marketing Podcast.
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00:14:49
For a complete transcript of this conversation or more information on
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/prompt, please visit us at meetprompt.co.
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If you found this episode insightful, share it with
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your connections on LinkedIn.
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To learn more about how to make marketing frictionless, purchase Friction
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Fatigue by /prompt CEO Paul Dyer, online and at booksellers worldwide.
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Produced and distributed by Simpler Media Productions.
00:00:00
Welcome to Frictionless Marketing, where we explore the latest
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00:00:02
trends and challenges in the world of marketing and beyond.
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00:00:05
Today's episode brings you a deeply moving and powerful story that sheds light
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on the struggles faced by those living with chronic illnesses and the systemic
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00:00:12
barriers in our healthcare system.
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Our host, Paul Dyer, CEO of /prompt, sits down with Sri Ramaswami,
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Vice President and Head of US Pharmaceuticals Communications for GSK.
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00:00:22
Sri shares the heartbreaking yet inspiring journey of Salathiel, a
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00:00:26
young woman diagnosed with lupus right after her high school graduation.
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00:00:30
From battling severe health issues and financial burdens to confronting
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the limitations of rural healthcare, Salathiel's story is a poignant
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reminder of the urgent need for health equity and systemic change.
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00:00:41
Stay tuned as we dive into the challenges and initiatives aimed at bridging
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these gaps and making healthcare more accessible and compassionate for everyone.
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Live from Fierce Pharma PR and Comm Summit East.
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Sri, welcome to the show.
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Thank you.
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For those who were not able to be here today, didn't get a chance to hear
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your keynote at the Fierce Pharma PR and Communications Summit, it was a
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really powerful testimony to the impact you're having at GSK, which started
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out with Salathiel's personal story.
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Do you wanna maybe give our listeners a small overview of
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the story you shared today?
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Absolutely, Paul.
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Thank you again for having me on the podcast.
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I'm really honored to be able to share Salathiel's story
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because it's so compelling.
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She was diagnosed with lupus as a teenager and faced many of the same challenges
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that others must deal with every day.
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She turned her journey into a crusade and her goal is to inspire others to action.
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It was a very inspirational story.
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Talk to us a little bit more about the impact this story's had on
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your outlook or approach from a communications function perspective.
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Sure.
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Salathiel's story absolutely demonstrates the power of storytelling.
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I think a lot of people may be able to relate to her journey.
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When we can make those connections, the empathy that follows can open eyes,
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elevate awareness, and change behaviors.
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Salathiel's story reinforces the kinds of stories we should be sharing.
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Stories that are authentic and moving.
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You started with her path to diagnosis, then you fast forwarded twenty years,
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and you talked about how Salathiel's health has evolved, how some of the
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challenges she faces today are different.
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I think you referred to her today as a warrior.
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What have you or GSK learned from this?
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Today, she still faces the waxing and waning of the disease, Paul.
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Some days she feels good and some days she doesn't.
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Because she's sharing her story broadly, she has built a network of support.
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The reality is many lupus patients continue learning about their disease
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throughout their lifetime because new symptoms may surface years later.
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There is no consistency, so having conversations and resources of the ready
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makes it a little easier to move forward.
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Well, can you talk about some of maybe the specific difficulties
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she or someone like her encounters?
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Particularly living in a rural area with limited access to specialized care?
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It could be a limited number of medical specialists.
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For some, clinical trials may be the only access to care that they have.
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But clinical trials are often hosted at large academic
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centers, often in big cities.
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It could be technology.
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If they don't have stable wifi, then even telehealth options may not be possible.
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It may even be that there aren't as many retail pharmacies which
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carry the medicines that they need.
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Awareness could be an obstacle because there may not be as much
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opportunity to expand knowledge.
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This could be because nonprofit organizations don't have a presence.
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Educational campaigns may not reach them.
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Major events like health fairs are not likely to be organized there.
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Now Sri, I'm just realizing it could be that there's a lot of people listening
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that don't know exactly what lupus is, or maybe they've heard of it, but
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they're not really familiar with why it's so difficult to diagnose or why it's
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such a unique and burdensome disease.
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Can you talk a little bit about that for people who may not be familiar with lupus?
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I'm glad you asked the question.
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Lupus is difficult to diagnose because this chronic disease exhibits a wide
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variety of symptoms that resemble other diseases and other conditions.
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It presents differently in different people.
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It's an autoimmune disease, so your body is attacking itself and can cause damage
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to cells, tissues, organs, or systems.
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This also can happen at any time, which is frightening.
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The symptoms could be sporadic, or years later you may develop a new symptom.
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According to the Lupus Foundation of America, the average time to
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a lupus diagnosis is six years.
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But for women of color, that time can take much longer.
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Think about that.
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Yeah, in your story from Salathiel, it sounds like she was diagnosed
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very quickly, but it was a very painful process regardless.
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Can you talk about maybe what are some of the symptoms or
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complications associated with lupus that patients like Salathiel endure?
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It is complex, Paul.
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Patients cope with strokes, increased risks of heart attacks along with
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fatigue, joint pain, chest pain, skin lesions, even memory loss.
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One of your main points today was that the health system was not
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serving Salathiel or people like her.
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And you made a point of referring to her as, I'm not gonna call her a
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patient, I'm gonna call her a person.
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Can you maybe talk a little bit about the, what are the issues and gaps in care
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that would contribute to her struggles or struggles of other lupus patients?
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When we think of systemic issues, we think about policy that needs to
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change and biased practice standards that lead to health disparities.
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The result of this is people of color have a much longer window to diagnosis
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and then suboptimal treatment.
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We know the impact of this.
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Black women with lupus, regrettably, die up to thirteen years earlier
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than white women with lupus.
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I don't think I heard that number earlier.
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That is shocking.
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It certainly is.
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So what, from an action standpoint, as communicators, of course, we have
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to draw awareness to these things.
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It's also on us to try to spur action.
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So what initiatives is GSK investing in to help address these
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issues, address the prevention or complications of a disease like lupus?
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As I said before and at my talk, we need to meet people where they
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are so we can build connections.
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We've teamed up with the National Basketball Retired Players
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Association and the Houston Rockets for the last two seasons.
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We knew we could get in front of a lot of people who may not normally attend
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a health fair by doing this, and we could give them information about
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lupus, talk to them about the risks, the symptoms, even the challenges.
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We heard from three people who went to their doctors right after these
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events and were diagnosed with lupus.
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And this may sound like a small number, but in the scheme of the disease
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and the number of people who get the disease, it's pretty significant.
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And so we know that the message is resonating.
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That's great.
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I mean, that's a real example of improving public health.
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What about access to quality care, especially in these rural areas?
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Are there things you're doing at GSK to help increase access to quality care?
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Or maybe in some ways improve the negative social determinants
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of health, which is another big theme in your conversation today?
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Yeah.
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I did talk about access and about addressing negative social
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determinants of health and also about reducing systemic barriers.
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We are pushing to expand the capabilities of staff like nurses,
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pharmacists, and social workers because they're accessible to more than
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doctors, to more people than doctors.
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Some may not know, but in the healthcare system, the social worker's
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whole job is to remove barriers to wellness and barriers to care.
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We're also leveraging data to identify areas with
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concentrated health disparities.
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This gives us an opportunity to have meaningful impact.
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And you also, you talked about a three pillar approach at GSK.
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Can you talk about the three pillar approach and your efforts
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to reduce systemic barriers?
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Absolutely.
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Some of the barriers have been around for decades, so we know we
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needed this multi-pronged approach to focus on the root causes.
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Our first pillar is addressing the negative social determinants of health.
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We want to look at the different factors that can prevent someone
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from getting medical care.
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Is it transportation?
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Is it access to doctors, limited disease awareness, not understanding the risks?
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The second pillar is access to quality care.
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Is a person able to get to a healthcare professional, and
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how knowledgeable is that HCP?
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We have a team working with HCPs to close knowledge gaps in disease
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states or cultural competencies.
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Our third pillar is addressing systemic barriers such as racism or discrimination.
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Is the person facing a bias in their treatment?
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Thank you for walking through that.
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I know this next question is kind of loaded but in your view, how can our
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listeners support health equity and help contribute to this vision of
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00:09:15
a more equitable healthcare system?
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It's a great question, Paul.
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I would say be open to conversations.
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It's all about learning and it's about listening.
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One of our efforts involved hosting an innovation challenge at a
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Hispanic Serving Institution or HSI.
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00:09:31
The students at Florida International University learned about vaccinations
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00:09:35
and then gave a presentation on how to educate their communities.
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What we saw was many of the students learned about the power
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of prevention for the first time.
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They then went and spoke to their families as part of their
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00:09:47
research, and those conversations opened up even more conversations.
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That's what we wanna see.
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So Sri, first of all, this has been great.
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I really appreciate you laying this out for our listeners, folks who
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weren't able to be here, what was a tremendous conference, and you
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being the keynote presentation.
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I'm gonna wrap with two questions, okay?
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So the first is we're gonna ask big picture in just a second.
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If you're gonna give your past self some advice, what would that advice be?
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But first, let's wrap up our keynote here.
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So what do you think is either the most important takeaway, or just the
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thing that if someone was gonna take away one point that you would want
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to emphasize what would that be?
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I think, as I mentioned during my keynote, people can't be what they can't see.
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And therefore, it's so important that if you want to effectuate change in
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the community and make health equity real and relevant and impactful,
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you have to go into the community and meet people where they are.
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I think that's so critical.
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I think also from what you saw today, not just in my speech, but
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also the panel discussion, I think it takes a village to do this.
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No one can solve the problems of health equity on their own.
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I think it's really important for us to collaborate, to ideate, to
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00:11:01
try new things, and yeah, we're not always gonna get it right.
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We may fail sometimes.
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But what do we learn from those failings and those failures that we
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can apply toward a more equitable world where everyone can thrive?
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I think that's all really powerful and that you can't be what you can't see.
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Just it touches on so many levels.
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This idea of going into the communities, it's really important
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as a takeaway as more and more and more of our work becomes digitized.
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And we live primarily in our industry, in urban centers.
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We start to look at the world through a screen.
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Yes.
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Correct.
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What you're saying is you gotta see the people.
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And see them in their environment.
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Exactly.
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I think that's just a really powerful reminder.
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So thank you.
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And now, alright, so the doozy.
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00:11:47
We're getting away from keynote now.
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00:11:49
[Sri chuckling] But as I'd mentioned, walking through your introduction.
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You obviously have had a very successful career.
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You're in a position of great influence within our industry.
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A lot of people listening would probably aspire to a career like yours.
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00:12:03
So, if you were gonna give your past self one piece of advice, what would you say?
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When I think about the most important role that, or advice I can give perhaps
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00:12:16
to people based on my own past, I would say it reminds me of the quote
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from Goethe who said, "we must always change, renew, and rejuvenate ourselves.
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Otherwise we harden."
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00:12:28
It's important in an industry like ours, frankly in life, change
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00:12:33
is an inevitable part of life.
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And I once saw a very impactful and strong piece of writing that
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said, "We believe in change, but not in changing what we believe."
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And the reason why that is so important to me, and if I could perhaps go back
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00:12:51
to my younger self or my past self, why those words are so important is
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because when you realize that change is an inevitable part of life, but that
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you are uncompromising in your values, then you're able to drive real change.
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I look at it even through the health equity lens.
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I don't, in fact, think that it is different from everyday life in the
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sense that we are at an inflection point in healthcare and other things where we
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know that we can't leave people behind.
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00:13:23
The risk of doing that, the opportunity cost of doing that is high.
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00:13:27
So the industry's gonna constantly change.
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00:13:29
Medicines are gonna change.
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00:13:31
Innovations are gonna change.
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00:13:33
New things will come into the market.
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00:13:34
Other things will go.
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00:13:36
The question is how do you ride that wave of change without
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00:13:41
compromising your values?
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00:13:43
Well, and that, especially at a time of tremendous change.
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00:13:46
Correct.
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00:13:46
Which I would argue, throughout my whole career people have talked
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00:13:49
about every year is a time of change.
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00:13:52
But not like this.
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00:13:53
Exactly.
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00:13:53
After the pandemic, with all of the social change going on, the
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00:13:57
technological change, this is really good advice, remaining centered.
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00:14:02
But not getting stuck.
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00:14:03
Correct.
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00:14:03
Right, that idea of not hardening.
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00:14:05
Well, said.
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00:14:05
That's really, really great.
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00:14:07
So, thank you, Sri, for sharing Salathiel's story and for some of
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00:14:11
your own story, and also just for the vital work that you're leading at
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00:14:15
GSK to address some of these issues.
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00:14:18
It's been a great conversation.
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00:14:19
It was very well received today.
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00:14:21
And I know that our listeners are gonna be thrilled to hear it.
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00:14:23
So thank you.
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00:14:24
And for our listeners, thank you for tuning in to this episode
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00:14:27
of Frictionless Marketing.
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00:14:29
Remember, as Sri has reminded us all, we all have a role to play in creating
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00:14:33
more equitable healthcare system.
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00:14:34
So until next time, stay engaged, listening, open, changing but not
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00:14:40
hardening, and be back with you soon.
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00:14:43
Thanks Sri.
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00:14:43
Thank you, Paul.
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00:14:44
Thank you so much for your time.
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00:14:46
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Frictionless Marketing Podcast.
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00:14:49
For a complete transcript of this conversation or more information on
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00:14:53
/prompt, please visit us at meetprompt.co.
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If you found this episode insightful, share it with
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