SPLC Exposed: Financing Leftist Extremism (Ep. 241) [The Outstanding Podcast]

We've been gas lit into thinking that if you question those, you're somehow beyond the paleoir conspiracy theorist. I'm like, no, we should be questioning these things. We know there were FBI informants there on January 6th, and now we know there were SPLC informants in Charlottesville. Outstanding is a production of the Washington stand. Family Research Council's outlet for news and commentary from a Biblical worldview. Welcome to the Outstanding Podcast. I'm Casey Harper, your host for this episode. And on this show, we dive in the issues in the news, culture, politics, and more from a Biblical perspective. Today, we're talking about the Southern Poverty Law Center, which, as you've probably heard, is wrapped in scandal after the A to Acting Attorney General Todd Blanche announced that the SPLC had been indicted for allegedly funding racial extremist groups, despite branding itself as the sworn enemy of those groups. The SPLC was not dismantling these groups. It was instead manufacturing the extremism it purports to oppose by paying sources to stoke racial hatred. The indictment describes this conduct in detail. But one troubling example is that the SPLC was paying a member of the leadership group that planned the Unite the Right protest in Charlottesville, Virginia in 2017 that resulted in the death of one person and injured dozens more. Now, Blanche went on to say the SPLC paid members and even leaders of the most radical groups from the KKK to Nazis that all totaled at least $3 million. Well, we have a lot to dive into today and have a couple of great guests to do at Chris Gasekis here. He's a senior fellow at the Family Research Council, along with Tyler O'Neill. He's a senior editor at the Daily Signal and the author of two books, at least two I know of. Maybe he's got a third on the way. I don't know. Probably. First is called, and it's very relevant, making hate pay the corruption of the Southern poverty loss center and the woked-to-piss, the dark money cabal manipulating the federal government. Gentlemen, thanks for joining me. Thanks. Good to be here. Absolutely. Well, I'm going to go first to you, Chris. Although it sounds like Tyler, you've literally written the book on this. So I'm excited a little bit in a few minutes to get some more backstory on SPLC and exactly who they are. But Chris, can you walk us through this indictment and what the SPLC actually did wrong and how strong you think this case is? Well, the indictment has basically three components. That's the way I would put it. So they're counts one through six and then I guess seven through ten and then there's a last one. So essentially what they do is they set up the federal government, they set up how the way they SPLC fund raises by essentially saying that they're going to fight racism and extremism groups that if you give us money, we're going to do this. We're going to bring about the kind of America you would like. And that referring to sort of, I guess you know, standard decent people who fight racism in the clan and is going back to the 1970s. There's a sort of a big donor base of people who supported them through the civil rights movement. But when you look at these various counts, they're essentially paying in some cases pretty substantial bits of money to like one million dollars to a national socialist, $270,000 to one of these unite the right. If someone involved in the unite the right group that planned and pulled off Charlottesville, that money was given over a period of something like seven or eight years. And so the notion is that or the government is basically and they're inditing them for investing in contrary purposes to the, you know, to the stated aims of the fundraising in order and they're doing this, they're sort of feeding opposition and creating conflict in order to raise money. Then the second set of components are very cut and dry and it has to do with two people at the SPLC. One is the chief financial officer at that point. And then there was a director of the intelligence project. I'm not exactly sure what time period exactly we're talking about the names of the people. They aren't named. But they opened bank accounts under pretense statements about the bank accounts that were not true. So that's a federal crime kind of bank fraud. And then there's at the end there's a, of the indictment there is a conspiracy to perpetrate money laundering. And so these financial crime aspects of the, I mean, regardless of the first part about, you know, the donors and all these sorts of things in the fundraising, just the bank offenses and moving the money around, those are pretty black and white. I don't see how you're going to get out of, you know, those things. I don't, and they're not dependent on the earlier accounts. So it's a very serious indictment. There's nothing fluffy here. But anyway, Tyler, I'm sorry, I'm going to go back to you. Tyler, no, Tyler, how fluffy is this indictment I want to hear your take? Yeah, I agree very much with Chris. And his analysis aligns with mine almost exactly. So when I was looking at the indictment, I thought, well, this wire fraud case, I'm not, I'm not an attorney. So I'm not sure. And I've been hearing a lot of people saying that the wire fraud charges may not hold up. But when you got to the bank fraud, I mean, that bank fraud, it's black and white. You can't, you know, I don't see if you have an organization that is falsely stating in their bank records that they're creating, you know, this group or they're, they have, there's shell companies that are falsely being created in the name of their own separate thing. And then they're really just a shell company for the SPLC. I mean, that may not get somebody behind bars for forever, but it's going to be very hard for the SPLC to wiggle out of that. Now yeah, the underlying, the overall bank, the overall wire fraud claims, we'll have to see how they stack up. Some critics have noted that even in a few of the reports that the SPLC wrote that were cited by in this indictment, the SPLC is saying, you know, this is a week or a pitiful millennial attempt to revive the national plans of America or various organizations like that. So I think there are some, you know, there are some caveats maybe that didn't make it into the indictment. But overall, I mean, this is the most damning thing you could possibly hear about the Southern poverty loss in a right that it was funding members of the KKK. And I was flabbergast like on the morning of the indictment, the SPLC gets out ahead of the news with their own narrative because they know that this is coming. And they say, oh, we've had this decades long informant process. And like I had followed, I followed the SPLC for years. This has followed them for years, probably perhaps even longer than I have. And I had never heard like a lot of us suspected, I'll put it this way. It's not an insane shock to me that they had informants for a whole bunch of reasons. But even though I'd suspected this, never in a million years would I think the SPLC themselves would be the ones to come out with the information that they would pay people in these racist groups. I mean, this is like, you know, this is a babble on B headline. And it's funny to see Senator Chuck Schumer on the Senate floor say like, oh, it's laughable that they were propping up the KKK. And I'm like, well, it isn't laughable. And it's not laughable because the good folks at FRC know how much the SPLC is desperate to exaggerate hate. And they had this, you know, the basic story is Morris D's found this amazing fundraising machine. He created it and he said, look, we're suing the clan into bankruptcy, give us money. Now, the clan, this was the 80s. The clan was a paper tiger. Lawyers said it was like shooting fish in a barrel to sue them into bankruptcy. But the donors didn't know that. So the donors thought, oh, he's doing the Lord's work. We need to funnel as much money to him as we possibly can. You had stories of old ladies spending their last dollar being like, oh, instead of buying a coat for the winter this year, I'm going to give the money to the Southern Poverty Law Center, which like, you know, hearing that it guts me to think that people were misled in this way. But like, they're sending all this money. The SPLC is raking in millions. And then they have to keep it going. So there's this artificially high demand for hate. And the SPLC can't always keep up with the supply because America, newsflash, is not as racist as it was in the 1920s or the 1950s or even the 1980s. And by the way, when it comes to these informants, it stands to reason that the SPLC might have thought they needed them when their offices were firebond in 1983. And I'm willing to say that maybe the informants could have helped a little bit in the 80s and 90s. But this indictment is talking about 2014 to 2023. Name for me one Waco Oklahoma City bombing, you know, event like that that happened in the past two decades. And in any of the time that this indictment is covering. So sure, the SPLC probably set up this informant network for the reasons that they're saying now. But by the time that this is going on during the time of the indictment, there's no way this is about safety. This is definitely about propping up false hate. Well, it's kind of makes a lot of sense. It's sort of basic game theory that if you have an organization that's set up that exists, it's a symbiotic relationship that SPLC needs these hate groups to exist to keep breaking in money to fund its own existence. It could kind of work itself out of a job. And so it's sort of an SPLC's interest to keep them at least on life support or the appearance of them being on life support. So they can keep the money coming in, which is a really terrible and sad and kind of all the chickens have come home to roast a little bit. What I think is interesting about I want to talk one more thing about the indictment. And then I want to go more into SPLC and what it really is. This word really caught my attention. The word asset forfeiture. Because if a couple of folks at SPLC end up behind bars, reputation is certainly tainted, but they're a very large organization. They have hundreds of millions of dollars in their endowment. They can survive this. But what they may not survive is asset forfeiture. And asset forfeiture for audiences is when law enforcement says, hey, that's a nice bank account you have there. We think it was involved in criminal activities. So we're going to freeze it. We might even just seize it. Hey, those are nice headquarters you have there, but they may have been used as a hub for how about money laundering, which is one of the counts. And asset forfeiture is really a tool that the federal law enforcement has to take on mafia to take on criminal enterprises that do things like money laundering. And so in kind of an interesting way, this case might be very well tailored for asset forfeiture. And so what do you guys think about that? Do you think it's possible the SPLC? I know, you know, do you think it's possible they can have their accounts frozen? We're talking endowments frozen headquarters. What do you think about that? The difficulty is you have to convince a court. And I don't know. I mean, when it comes to civil asset forfeiture, I've heard of so many abuses that part of me is like cringing at the idea. It's because I don't know how much of the SPLC's fundraising and how many of their donors would want to claw their money back after these revelations. The fact is this is a small amount of money for the SPLC that they were giving to these people. And even though I think they were artificially inflating hate, I suspect that a lot of donors would believe the SPLC's narrative about informants. So when you're making a case here in terms of justice, I'm not necessarily the biggest fan. In terms of practicality, it would be very nice to see the SPLC's money go somewhere else. There are gobsmackingly wealthy organization and they've made so much of it off of falsely inflating hate. I have my own idea of where that money should go. I think it needs to go through defamation lawsuits to all the organizations that have been smeared and have been put in the crosshairs by the SPLC's hate labeling. I think it is high time that the Family Research Council, that Alliance Defending Freedom, that Turning Point USA, they deserve checks from that. And if the federal government does forfeit those assets, I want the conservative groups that are unjustly smeared to be the first ones to get any of that money. You know, I think one of the aspects of this, if I were the SPLC, I'd be kind of alarmed or pretty alarmed by this, which is that when you're, let's say for example, you were involved in federal felonies if you're the SPLC and you, because you dumped sludge out in a creek behind your intentionally dumped sludge in some creek in Montgomery, Alabama or something, you know, some physical kind of thing. You're like, oh, you're going to clean this up. We don't want to get, but this is fraud, right? Bank fraud, wire fraud, money laundering. And, and, and, excuse me, these are sorts of things that go directly to, you know, 501C3 status. Do you have the moral probity to have that status? You know, I think all of those, those good character characteristics have to sort of, you know, inform that decision making by the IRS. And in 2019, Senator Cotton wrote a letter to the IRS asking for an investigation of their tax status. And, you know, individuals, if there are any tax lawyers out there who have some spare time, you could file a tax complaint against the SPLC. You know, go get the indictment and some other information you can go and I was kind of messing around and I was looking at Google AI and I said, how do you file a complaint against the 501C3 status of an organization? And you know, it put it all out there very, very quickly. So if you're a professional, you know, tax lawyer or tax account, there's some people out there who could probably do a pretty good, you know, amateur job. You know, I mean, a lot of 501C3 conservative organizations have had tax investigations just because based on a phone call about something, right? This is the way the Obama administration operated and the Biden people. So I think, you know, Jim Jordan and maybe Senator Cotton again, you're going to get a lot of interest in reinvestigating the tax status. And that's going to be, you know, a pretty big problem. Also I mean, when you have bank fraud, I don't know what happens to bank accounts when you're convicted of bank fraud. I mean, it's, you know, are you, what do you have to do to get the system reworking? I'll also say one thing is that what would it, how would you like to be the accountants at the SPLC right now? No, no, thanks. The guys who were certifying their, their public records. Yeah. And I think there's a firm that's been doing it for 20 years because I've looked at the, the documents every year. I think they've been around a long time. They're probably, you know, above board, you know, it was one of the things I've always sort of thought about at SPLC was they're very, you know, professional and competent on that board, above board stuff. They probably, those, those accounts are probably taken, you know, volume right now, you know, like starting about Wednesday morning, they probably, they're psych, you know, they're getting therapist help, you know, PTSD or something. So there are a lot of fronts on which they're, you know, I imagine that the FBI is going to be really digging into this, you know, it's going to, it's going to have the back hoe and the front hoe and they're going to be going down into some stuff. So. The nature, Craig from wrong, but kind of the nature of a grand jury indictment is this is just the beginning. This is sort of permission to begin digging deeper. So we, we could, for my understanding, we can see more charges, more people named like this is going to only grow, right? Oh, yeah. No, I mean, we saw that in the city's church case where I know how much you guys have been following this, but amid the big protests in Minneapolis after the death of Renee Good, a whole bunch of black lives matter activists decided, oh, we're going to invade a church. And they invaded city's church and they took it over and they chanted things like who shut this down, we shut this down. And the federal government, unfortunately, the local prosecutors decided not to act. So it was left to the DOJ and thank God, Harmeet Dillon was able to file the charges. Yeah, I've been following that case and first it was a handful of people charged and then recently they got up to 39 people charged. There was one person who was unjustly charged and they got that charge dropped because that person was mixed up with the other people in the, in the riot and the takeover of the church. But like that sort of thing, it's beyond the pale. And that, by the way, has been unjustly demonized. I mean, talk about some of these cases, you know, I understand the Trump administration may be going a little over zealous here or there. But when it comes to city's church and when it comes to the Southern Poverty Law Center, there's a ton there. Like a whole bunch of Democrats are saying, oh, this, this isn't going to hold up in court. This is, this is baseless. You guys are being silly by attacking the SPLC over this. This doesn't make any sense. I look at it and I look at the pleadings and the indictment and the plain text of the indictment says things like not only was the SPLC paying this person, but the SPLC was directing the social media posts of the Charlottesville. Right. God. They were like, they were helping that person bring people to Charlottesville. So there were more people in that tiki torts rally. And I mean, I don't know if the whole thing was a side up, but we at least know that there were more people there in Charlottesville on the ground on the white nationalist side because the SPLC was funding one of the organizers. And then there were, I mean, there are two people at least in the indictment who are listed as extremists on the SPLC website, just like the Family Research Council and all these others who are also getting money from the SPLC. So I'm like, where, where's the money for Family Research Council? Where's the money for do no harm? Where's the money for Alliance defending for, I mean, come on. Well, doesn't that kind of prove that doesn't that kind of prove that we're not actually the extremists? There's sort of two tiers on that. The hit map that has all these quote unquote extremist groups. There's the actual extremists that got money. If you didn't get money, it's proof that there wasn't actually need to investigate. You said it's kind of a, it isn't an interesting too that so many of the, you know, we hear so much about these white supremacist groups and the threat of white supremacy and of course, like I'm not endorsing white supremacy, evil, bad, unbiblical, got it. Irrelevant. Every, yes. Almost entirely irrelevant. And the few small instances we've had where it seemed to be something popped up like January 6th and Charlottesville, there's evidence that both of those were at least partially fueled by people who said that they were trying to prevent them. And by the way, it almost derailed President Trump both times, but go ahead. Yeah, we've been gaslit into thinking that if you question those, you're somehow beyond the pale, you're a conspiracy theorist. I'm like, no, we should be questioning these things. We know there were FBI informants there on January 6th and now we know there were SPLC informants in Charlottesville. And like, I live in Virginia, I got the mailers after Charlottesville happened, the Democrats immediately tied Ed Gillespie, who is the Republican candidate for governor to Charlottesville in that race. And they had mailers with Ed Gillespie's face, Donald Trump's face, and the Tiki torch carriers in Charlottesville saying like vote against hate. And Ed Gillespie from the beginning, and I mean, as is always the case in these cases, the Republican falls over himself to condemn and rightfully condemn any sort of racism, any sort of white supremacy. I mean, this is not, and of course the left now says critical race theory rests on the idea that everything is white supremacy. So whatever the Republican says, whatever he, if you oppose their agenda, you are Ipso facto a white supremacist, that's where they're trying to define the narrative. And I think this case, almost more than any other, just blows that narrative to smithereens. If this Charlottesville thing is this SPLC interaction with it is pretty shocking. And I think a lot is going to happen, you know, from that dynamic. I want to make, just go back and make a quick point about the bank accounts. One of the things that the bank accounts, the fraudulent bank accounts and the money laundering are, let's, the shenanigans with the money and who's running the accounts. That can be used as the existence of this network of shadowy accounts can be used to show that the SPLC knew that what it was doing with the fundraising and they're hiding it, right? So in other words, it helps to establish a guilty mind, right? And so I think that that's also, it's important to connect these things because real acts that are concrete often give us away in terms of aspects of our behavior that are, you know, when you're trying to hide things, right? So it's, and I think along these lines in July of 2018, there was a story in the, on hate watch, which is the one SPLC, it's a subsite of the SPLC website. And it was essentially one of these things saying, you know, the idea that there were, you know, left wing group that the Charlottesville was a setup is a conspiracy theory. And here they are, we're finding out that they're paying $270,000, right? You know, it's, it's obviously quite rich. And the organization is large enough so that the person who wrote the article, in fact, that's the way I would set it up so that you would get some, you know, useful idiot to write the article for hate watch, who has no idea what's going on, really going on in the organization. And one of the things about the SPLC that's just straight, you know, it's how many organizations have, you know, open source intelligence directors. And you know, all of these sort of shadowy kinds of, you know, layers of people dealing with, you know, quasi criminal individuals, you know, like the clan or the, or the, and one of the things I'm really going to be interested to see is if, when Antifa connections start popping up. So we, Tyler and I on the last show, we mentioned an article from Wired Magazine about a woman. I'm not going to mention she is because I don't know that, yeah, okay. But I have it in my, my, my hands here, but the, the, the, it's fantastic article. If you can go watch, go look for this article, Wired Magazine 2018. And it's just go, just Google meet Antifa's secret weapon. And I was thinking about this and I went, you know, went back and there's an entire page where, because it was January 2018, it's four or five months after Charlottesville. And there's just a whole page of, um, descriptions of this person's interaction with, like violent people, Antifa surrounding Charlottesville. Now she's a contractor at that time. She's a professor at a, at a college in North Carolina University. Then she later becomes a full staff member at SPLC. So think about this. This article is published in 2018. Where all of this happens and the article is out there and your, your HR department gets a hold of this article and they still hire her, right? She becomes part of the full staff and gets a prominent position in the staff. But one of the things I thought was just, I'll just read this really quickly says, so she's at the rally, right? And she says just before 10 a.m. the white supremacists began marching into a man's patient park, a parade of clansmen, blah, blah, blah, blah, squire, uh, screen curses at the white supremacists by name. She knew them because she had their information on file in the whack-a-mold database. And had, and had memorized their faces. At one point, a group of clergy tried to block the white supremacists and squire linked arms with the other activists to protect them. And so it's, it's just, it's, it's this crazy thing. And here's, here's a sentence also, uh, Tyler, you're going to love this. Her research she also showed, uh, that some of, uh, some of them, the radicals had extensive arrest records for violence. She sent a report to the SPLC, which passed it on to the Charlottesville and Virginia law enforcement. Excuse me. She also called attention to the event on an anarchist websites and spread the word via affinity groups, comma, secret peer to peer antifa communications net works period. I mean, this is, this is going to, I would imagine there's going to be a lot of interesting connections here because she's, I mean, right there, she's sort of a, a, a, a go between between SPLC and antifa and- Oh, it gets worse. I mean, please go. It's not just terror. It's, uh, yeah. So, I mean, when, when Trump designates antifa, a designated, a terrorist group in 2020, the SPLC falls over itself to say, oh, this is evil. This is an attack on civil society. And they published this really damning article, in my opinion, where they're saying like, oh, antifa doesn't really exist. And this is what's going on. And, you know, this is just like broken windows things. No, no, our joint bank accounts. This is in the middle of the summer, the summer of love where at least 27 people lost their lives in these riots. And so like this, this is actually serious. And the SPLC is playing. And like, I don't know about you guys. There are very few instances like James Revenge, the antifa riots. Like this is real hate in my opinion. When you're talking about a real threat to American society, you know, and, and to have the SPLC, I mean, the SPLC raises money saying, we fight hate. We fight hate. We fight violence. We oppose political violence always. And then you have these riots across American cities where at least 27 people died, including, you know, black men who were retired, fire officers. Police officers. Yeah, retired police officers like David Dorn. I mean, it's just like, and, and they're dead now because of these riots. And the SPLC is saying, oh, this isn't hate. They said over and over again. Like, there was one time where they condemned antifa. And that was the old, old leadership that was back in 2018 when the same guy actually who said that they hate these groups and want to destroy them. The same guy was the guy who gave this statement. And he said, we condemn what antifa does. But they're not a hate group because they don't engage. They don't target people because of their typically immutable characteristics. You know, you got to love like the lawyerly, slimy like, oh, this is why we don't go after antifa. And then later by 2020, they're like out there standing for them. And then the worst thing was in 2023 when you had this riot in Georgia where they were trying to prevent the building of a police center, a big police training facility. And it's called StopCop City is this movement. And one of the SPLC's lawyers is marching with the people. He's wearing black block as far as I can tell. And he is marching with them. They're throwing Molotov cocktails at construction equipment. Like, this is a real riot, real violence. And they get arrested and charged under Chris Carr's office, the AG in Georgia, with domestic terrorism. And this is a clear situation where you have an SPLC attorney at a Molotov cocktail riot. They claim they don't identify as antifa. But I mean, come on. They're clearly antifa. The SPLC didn't just hire Megan Squire of all people, antifa's secret weapon. They also had a lawyer arrested an antifa riot. So like the idea that their hands are clean on this is, you know, it doesn't, doesn't pass the sniff test. It's great. Well, it speaks sort of to SPLC's role in like the broader apparatus of liberal groups, which is something at a FRC, I think is known for a while, because SPLC's hate map was influenced and inspired the guy who 13 years ago walked in the front doors of FRC and tried to shoot up the place, shot Leo Johnson, the building manager at the time. He brought enough ammunition to kill a lot of people and 15 chick-fli sandwiches that he was planning to stuff in the mouths of the victims here at FRC. And he is said, it's on camera when he was interviewed by law enforcement that he found out details about FRC through the SPLC hate map. That's not a, you know, we're not just trying to tie something together here that there was a coincidence that FRC was on the hate map. And then the shooting happened. The shooter himself said it was SPLC came out of his mouth. And so, you know, we've sort of known this that there was a link to the violence here. But now we're seeing a lot of evidence that SPLC is not just some kind of liberal think tank putting out reports and, you know, doing some kind of Ivy League light work. And they seem to have a lot more of a role as being sort of the muscle of the left in a way that I don't think a lot of people really understood. Well, I think you're onto something here. And I just, this is something a topic I wanted to talk about in this sort of the broads, you know, scope of the, our little podcast here. And it is what exactly is the SPLC and how does it fit into the world, the cosmology of the world. And what I would say is in the political cosmology of the left, there is an overarching political operational code of suppressing the speed of each and coercion of anyone who opposes their agenda. So there are different levels of this and there are people with different kinds of functions. Right. So the SPLC has a, you know, and it can be like lawyers involved in law fair. Right. It can be, you know, people who are nonviolent like the press, sort of, you know, they were sort of leftist doing propaganda work and these sorts of things. And you get a notch up a little, a different kind of thing. The SPLC has a function of isolating, targeting and attacking people, you know, verbally doxing them. You know, it's, it's, and this is what they've been doing for 40 years. There was a great, you know, sociologist writer named Leard Wilcox who talks about this, like 20, 30 years ago. And he was, you know, just brilliant. And you can find these articles, the Leard Wilcox on the SPLC, you can go find that online. But he, it's about isolating the individual targeting them, ostracism, right. And so what happens in this, this spectrum is that sort of like the lowest level. If you don't catch on, then they will bring, you know, like more pressure, more violence, more ostracism. They'll try to bankrupt you. They'll try to, you know, these various tools are brought to bear. And then if that doesn't happen, they will kill you, right. They'll bring antifa in, they'll, you know, have mob violence, they'll stone your house, threaten your kids. Or in the case of Charlie Kirk, they just, you see one of the things that they've practiced and become, it's a, it's a concept that some people find controversial. And then, as over time, I've become completely convinced that it's part of the operational code of the left. And it's this notion, this is a big, it's a big word. It's kind of a crazy term. Stochastic terrorism, right. And so, plastic means, you know, randomized, right. It's like a, you know, you would, you would learn this if you took us to, you know, a statistics class, right. A stochastic process is just, you know, so if I throw this propaganda out and I target Charlie Kirk for hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, right. And I get this, I see the environment with this, this, this pervasive view of him or family research council, right. Somewhere out there, a one in a million guy, one in a thousand guy is going to go to a gun range and, you know, buy a gun and show up at Chick-fil-A and buy sandwiches and show up here and shoot our building manager, right. As part of the process of trying to kill us, right. Or is going to get a rifle and, you know, or somebody's going to get rifle and they're going to go and they're going to kill Charlie Kirk, right. So, or the baseball diamond and, right, exactly. We're about five people were shot. But, but, Steve, Steve Scalise is the person who was most grievously injured. So, all of this, you know, even if you don't kill the person, you know, it serves the process. It serves their, the agenda of the left of terror, right. It is about terrorism. It's about instilling fear, silencing people. They don't want opposition. If they have to, you know, if it's not enough to just put you on a hate list. And then you shut up. Well, maybe then they have to do these, these greater levels of violence. And so, one of the things I have to really commend the Trump administration for. So, this was two weeks after Charlie Kirk died. They put out a, it's a national presidential national security presidential memorandum number seven. And so, I just want to read this. I know this is like, you know, like the death sentence of a pot. This is this is good text. And it's the best language I think I've ever read in capsulating what's going on in this, in this spectrum of violence and oppression. Right. And so, section one paragraph two of this, and it's NPSM slash seven. So, you can go and find this online if you're watching, you know, NPSM dash seven. They're talking about this kind of political violence we're talking about this political violence. The violence is not a series of isolated incidents and does not emerge organically. Instead is a culmination of sophisticated organized campaigns of targeted intimidation, radicalization threats and violence, designed to silence opposing speech, limit political activity, change or direct policy outcomes and prevent the functioning of a democratic society. That's one of the most perfect sentences I've ever read in any, you know, about this topic anywhere. And then they go on to say a new law enforcement strategy that investigates all participants in these criminal and terrorist to conspiracies, including the organized structures networks entities organizations funding sources and predicate actions behind them is required. So, maybe this is the first indictment under NPSM seven. I pray. Yeah. Right. But this when I was thinking about our podcast today, and I wanted to sort of cast this in this larger framework. It's not just about the SPLC. It's about the whole network of oppression. And as I say, right, of culmination of sophisticated organized campaigns of targeted intimidation, radicalization. I would add astrosism, right, threats, violence, designed to silence opposing speech, limit political activity, right, change or direct policy outcomes and prevent the functioning of democratic society. And that's a definition of terrorism, right, when you use violence to change political outcomes, right, Tyler? Yeah. No, I mean, and that's exactly why we're seeing the left overall, like almost every NGO coming out and condemning these charges against the SPLC. It's not just because and this happened. It was so bizarre to me because I testified about the SPLC alongside Tony in December and in Congress. And the left, it was it was a very weird phenomenon because they didn't send an SPLC person to go toe to toe with us. Instead, they sent this woman and mandatiler and they had this really weak sauce argument where they were saying, oh, this is an attack on civil society. How dare you question the Southern poverty law center and the way that it demonizes people and the potential that it could have inspired the Charlie Kirk assassination. Like this, this is an attack on civil society and I'm like leveling with you. There is not one organization in the entire United States that is worse for civil society and free dialogue than the Southern poverty law center. There is not one. You cannot name one. And the reason is because they are trying to systematically silence an entire side of the political debate. And they do it over and over and over and over again. And they're not, they're not ashamed. Like they continually that I saw, I don't know if you've seen this report. They're captain report about pseudo science, pseudo science on transgender ideology. I mean, it's laughable, but it's also like if the left, if the Biden DOJ wasn't hand in glove with these people. If the vast apparatus of the left wouldn't sign up yesterday to fight on behalf of these people until the end of time. Like this would be hilarious, would be able to laugh it off. But they say that Christian supremacy and white supremacy are behind that disagreement with gender ideology. I mean, you think that a boy can't become a girl just by saying so. And they say that's because you are trying to control the world, that you are an evil Christian white supremacist. And people believe it. Like the left doesn't come out and say, oh well, you know, we side with transgenderism, but we think it's insane that people would say this. They don't do that. If you're a rational actor who maybe for some idiotic reason you believe in transgender ideology. I don't know, some people do believe in it, I suppose. But like if you believe in it and you want to be rational, you should at least say, look, I understand why people disagree with this thing that has not existed for millennia. And you know, like everybody knows that you're a boy or you're a girl and you can't just change your sex. And yet they're saying like, they're acting as though the very idea is rooted in oppression. And this is an oppression that you have to overthrow. And of course, it's yet another example of why the left needs permanent power and never to be questioned. And meanwhile, we have on the right, we have some conservatives who are like, oh, well, I'm not sure about this tweet that President Trump tweeted. Like, I don't think that we can support him. And I'm like, guys, this is a threat that wants to demonize you, that wants you not to exist, that wants to shame you into silence and prevent any discussion about their radical ideology. Like, this is not, these are not your 1960s liberals. These are not people who are just going to agree with who are just going to be like, oh, let's link arms, let's fight the Soviets together. Like, this is existential. And I hate saying that I don't want to be dividing people more. But I've followed this. And the Southern poverty law, if if a liberal organization cannot cut off the Southern poverty law center yesterday on principle, then they're proving everything the right is warning about. And this, this is exhibit a, and I just, I cannot shout this from the rooftops enough. Because if we are headed to a civil war, it is because the left is unwilling to even have the beginnings of a debate. And the Southern poverty law center is the central weapon they use to shut down any disagreement with their ideology. Yeah. And to be clear, we don't want a civil war. We don't want violence. We don't support violence. And the great irony here is that the yes, these liberal groups, the radical liberal groups, accuse, the right of the very things that they've been engaging on all along. And the basic mantra is that the, the right is so dangerous that we have to hurt them. And thereby they make themselves the dangerous ones. And by the right, what they really mean, yeah, yes, they don't even mean, they don't mean libertarians. They mean Western civilization, those who believe in the loosely inspired, you know, the western philosophy inspired by the Bible. The idea that people are made the image of God that we all have to answer to him one day that you can't take babies in the womb and that you have to judge people by the constant of their character, not based on the number of letters that are after their, their name and some intersectionality dynamic. It's a totally opposing world view. They're so threatened by Christianity that they, they feel justified in many do and taking really radical steps. And that's why, truly alarming is why we have to point it out. And I think the points that were raised about this new approach to terrorism are very interesting because our country has a rise in two ideologies that sadly have a historically ties to violence. And that's Islam and socialism. You study the history of both of these. It's not, it's not good when it comes to violence. Let's watch the forming an alliance together. I'd say Islamism. But yeah, I mean, I think sure I know a lot of Muslims who are patriotic Americans and who want reform in Islam and whose voices unfortunately are being silenced by the Southern poverty law center. So like, you know, you're, you're exactly on the money overall. But I do think that there are potential allies of the West among some in Islamic circles. I just really wish that they would come out and condemn political Islam because. Well, they can't the left to call them the left without blinking will call a Muslim Islam of opiate. I mean, they will do that. I mean, they're not there's a there's a Muslim reformer called Maghrib Nawaz who had to sue the Southern poverty law center because they called him an Islamic extremist. So yeah, it's well, maybe maybe that great irony and is as a good place to end this. This is I think we could keep going. It's very interesting. But that's. Let's keep going. I think we should. Yeah, I could talk to you guys forever. But there are stories to write and there are doors to be knocking on. That's right. There's a lot more to develop from this. Yeah, well, and we're going to keep an eye on it. Maybe when there's a development a few months, if somebody does go to jail, we can get the band back together in a few months to see what we can do here. But thank you guys for joining. Thank you to our listeners and viewers for tuning in. We really appreciate it. Please like share and subscribe. We need your help getting this out there. I say this every every week. But the algorithm is not our friend. We talk about transgenderism. We talk about racism without fear without pulling punches. We try to be honest. We try to share the truth because ultimately this is all about getting the truth out there. We got to come against political correctness. We have to come against the deceit and the lies and even just a political manipulation of the truth that is everywhere you see it every day. And just share the unvarnished truth. But because we're going to be able to do this, we're going to be able to do this. We do that. We need your help to get the word out because nobody is going to do it if you don't. So thank you to our audience and thank you Chris and Tyler for joining me. I really appreciate it. Thank you, gentlemen. Thanks again for having me. This podcast is made in the USA by producer Casey Harper, production assistant Rachel Woods, technical producers David Salcold and Yusuf Fletcher, and executive producer Jared Bridges. 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