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00:00:11.519The front line of policing is loud, but the voices behind it, you know, they're a lot louder and I think, frankly, a lot more interesting.
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00:00:14.800Hi, I'm Bob Plashke, and this is First Response.
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00:00:27.280This is the uh number one podcast that takes you behind the badge and uncovers real stories and experiences of first responders from all walks of life and the topics that shape public safety today.
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00:00:36.000If you're curious about the guy or the gal behind the hero, and they are indeed truly heroes, and the topics that they care about, take a listen.
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00:00:42.640This is kind of your front row seat to hearing some of the really interesting voices out there and more importantly the heroes.
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00:00:47.359This podcast is sponsored by PepperBall, where I have the honor to serve as CEO.
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00:00:53.840PepperBall creates unlethal alternatives to guns, at least used to keep themselves and the public safe.
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00:00:59.520So today I'm really excited.
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00:01:02.880Well, I'm joined by Chief Olson.
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00:01:12.640Chief Olson is the uh police chief and has been the police chief of Appleton, Wisconsin, around 75,000 folks um living there.
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00:01:18.560She manages or oversees uh the department of around a hundred police officers.
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00:01:35.680This is very much the kind of uh typical um police agency um in the United States, or one that you would you would kind of consider a medium-sized agency that makes up a lot of of and covers a lot of the of what is across the United States.
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00:01:42.799Chief Olson um is uh a bit unique, um uh particularly in Wisconsin.
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00:01:49.040Uh only three percent of the police chiefs in Wisconsin, I think, if I get the statistic right, are female.
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00:01:49.439Uh-huh.
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00:01:54.879It's roughly eight to ten percent of police chiefs across the United States are females.
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00:02:07.680Um that obviously that trend is moving in the the hopefully the right direction, so it's increasing, but it is a very small minority of the executive leadership in policing today.
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00:02:08.080Uh-huh.
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00:02:27.199Uh she has done an amazing job of building her agency and um is one of the those uh really um uh nice stories of someone who was born and raised in Appleton and has then grown up to actually become the police chief of Appleton.
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00:02:30.080And that is increasingly more rare, unfortunately.
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00:02:33.360A lot of a lot of movement of police chiefs across agencies.
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00:02:43.360Um and so it's great to see someone that's been brought up kind of um um from the from the the cradle to cradle to this position, so to speak.
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00:02:47.840So Chief Olson, um so great to have you on the show today.
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00:02:50.000Thank you so much for joining.
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00:02:53.759My first question is um how does that happen?
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00:02:56.960How do you uh um to be born and raised?
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00:03:06.159Were you did you always want to be a police officer uh when you um when you when you were young, or is this an unexpected uh career path for you?
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00:03:09.599Hi, yeah, thank you for having me on the show today.
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00:03:12.000Um so yeah, great question.
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00:03:20.879Um for me, this was this was not something that was on the radar at all uh when I was in high school or approaching college.
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00:03:34.240Um it's one of the reasons why I feel so passionately now about getting into high schools and getting into to schools and having contact with girls earlier so that they can be introduced into a career of public safety.
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00:03:49.280Um so back in the 90s when I was in high school, um late 80s, early 90s, um, high school and college, uh law enforcement for women was not really something that we were ever pushed into or really, you know, considered as a career path.
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00:04:05.520Um so I actually wanted to be a nurse, um, like to the traditional a lot of women did back then, and ended up going to college for initially nursing, and then I actually changed and ultimately graduated with a degree in biology.
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00:04:11.280And while I was in school, I gave some consideration to attending medical school.
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00:04:21.279And so I ended up getting a job at a hospital where I worked in the lab, and then um that exposed me to the work that pathologists do.
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00:04:31.680So, interestingly enough, back in in college, I worked as what's called a deaner or a morgue assistant, and I would assist with autopsies at the hospital.
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00:04:35.279And um, yeah, it was actually very, very interesting.
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00:04:42.079I look back on that part of my life and um gosh, I learned so much about a lot of things through that experience.
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00:04:56.480Um, and then that actually um opened up a door for me to work um as a deputy coroner for the county that I live in, Autagamy County, which is one of three counties that Appleton is in.
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00:05:13.279And while I was working as a deputy coroner, um, I started my family, got married, had a couple of kids, and um was working very closely at that time with law enforcement and to include many detectives from Appleton PD.
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00:05:24.560And it was, you know, during one of those um death investigations that we were working side by side, that a detective had said to me, like, hey, you should come work for us.
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00:05:31.040And I was quite honestly at at first just kind of like, that's just crazy.
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00:05:41.519Like I never I watched cops, of course, like everybody did back in the day, and and it just enjoyed the the show, but thought never considered myself actually in that role.
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00:05:46.160And he's like, Yeah, you know, we can do, we can set up a ride-along for you.
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00:05:50.560Um, so I was like, okay, you know, and um so I did.
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00:06:00.240I went on a ride-along, and that led to two more ride-alongs, and ultimately decided that, you know what, I could really see myself doing this work.
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00:06:04.560And so I applied and went through the process.
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00:06:23.920And and, you know, Appleton at that time was a very progressive agency in that they were one of few that would sponsor people or sponsor, you know, recruits and then pay for them not only to attend Recruit Academy, but also pay them a salary while they were they were attending Recruit Academy.
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00:06:33.120So for me, you know, being selected out of a pool at that time, they were getting three to four hundred applicants for one or two positions.
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00:06:41.360Um, and then to be actually paid a salary while attending school, it was really the best case scenario with uh somebody with a young family.
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00:06:43.839So that's what how I got started.
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00:06:47.199Yeah, I'm I'm interested.
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00:06:54.959Friends always ask me, they said, you know, what is the typical motivation for someone to join the police force?
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00:06:58.240And how do you know that it's actually right?
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00:07:01.120You know, that you are, you know, you're cut out for that.
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00:07:13.839Because it is an incredibly challenging career, um, and uh the amount of of um of stress and um and and danger and risk.
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00:07:17.519So you're a young mother with two small children at home.
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00:07:28.079When you did these ride-alongs, um, what about it um jumped out at you that said that that it was um the right thing for you to consider?
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00:07:43.839Yeah, so uh I think in in general for me, um I I never saw myself as being somebody that would ever be happy sitting in an office or you know, just having kind of the job that has some level of monotony to it.
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00:07:58.720Um I I've always enjoyed um just the challenge of having to um use my brain, think through different situations and solutions on my toes, um, and to be challenged like that all the time.
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00:08:03.680Um, and so for me though, that policing offered that experience.
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00:08:15.920Um and of course, when at the time I was in my mid-20s and still had that that philosophy where you know I never considered the the risk involved, honestly, or the danger involved.
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00:08:22.879Um obviously the older me now looks at that much differently than the younger me did.
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00:08:31.360But at the time, I was more driven by the challenge of tackling new situations every day, the adrenaline rush that you get from that.
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00:08:31.759Right.
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00:08:35.679Um, and also I believe in the calling of law enforcement as well.
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00:08:46.720So I did feel I really felt that calling when I was sitting in that squad car and I just really could picture myself, you know, in in the seat where the police officer was at the time.
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00:08:53.440And and really felt like I could, I could do the work and that I could serve my community in that way.
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00:09:01.840Um, so I think those were those were the main the main things that kind of drove me to because then of course I had to make sure I'd get myself in shape.
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00:09:07.200I was at that time when I was doing the ride-alongs, I was only a few months postpartum with my second child.
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00:09:18.799So, you know, I got on the track and started running and you know, push-ups and all the rest of things that one has to do to get in shape for a fitness test and got it done.
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00:09:35.039Yeah, and that's what I typically do hear from folks, um, which was I, you know, there was this element of a community service, and you being born and raised in Appleton, what a what a wonderful way to get back.
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00:09:49.919I have, as you said, I've also heard this notion of um the uh the dynamic um very uh you know, it's almost like for attention deficit disorder folks, like you know, it's the constant um changing environment.
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00:09:56.080Um and it's and it's the the furthest thing from a desk job uh that you could think of.
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00:10:10.639Um and I'm increasingly because I'm I'm just interested in the psychology of this, I'm increasingly um um uh focused on this last element, which is you were just too young to to really think through.
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00:10:27.840Um you're kind of still in that invincible mode, not you, but just generally um you know, kids in that age, and I have um young adults um who they they they that's not even a consideration, that kind of that element of risk.
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00:10:32.159Um now when you went home to your husband, uh, what did he have to say?
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00:10:39.919Is he does he come from a law enforcement background, or is that something that was unusual for him when you you told him of your aspiration?
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00:10:51.039Well, so the first thing he said when I told him I was gonna apply was I I don't know if I can quote him exactly, but it was something along the lines of over my dead body.
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00:11:05.279It was uh so you know, again, the younger me was much more like, you know, anytime somebody challenged me or maybe said I couldn't do something, that just drove me more to want to do it.
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00:11:16.000Um, but you know, interestingly, after the initial shock of it, because of course, I mean, he his mind immediately went to the safety piece where my mind didn't, right?
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00:11:29.919Um, and the risk involved, you know, once he realized that I really did have my mind set on it, um, he couldn't have been more supportive and continues to be after we've been married 31 years now, like my biggest supporter.
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00:11:35.600So yeah, his initial response was not the most positive, to be honest.
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00:11:42.320Um, but thankfully he came around and and and like I said, couldn't have been more supportive of me.
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00:11:50.240And I couldn't have been able to be in this career for going on 26 years without having you know that kind of support from him.
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00:12:21.360So you know, it's one of the things we talk about on on this podcast is the the the significant, uh horrific mental challenge, uh the mental aspect of this, the the amount of um of um uh of uh incidents that you have to uh uh observe and and experience, you know, that's well beyond what a normal civilian would ever have to go through, the uh traumatic incidents, so to speak.
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00:12:27.039And the thing we don't talk a lot about um is what the spouses have to go through.
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00:12:43.039Because in effect, you know, you're in it, and to some degree you feel like you have a bit of control, um, where you have the spouses who just have to wait at home every night um and just make sure that they're you know just happy that you have, you know, you walk through the door.
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00:12:50.240Um well that must have been very um uh I guess interesting for him to have to get used to that.
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00:12:53.600Yeah, you know, I think he had it twofold, right?
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00:13:02.080So um it was uh challenging, I think, for him because he was one of very few husbands whose wives did this kind of work.
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00:13:16.080So, you know, whereas the wives, um, at least I can speak to our department, like we work really hard to connect our wives, our spouses together so that they have their own support system within themselves, right?
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00:13:22.799Um, and I think, you know, he's always been on the outside of that, being being a male.
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00:13:27.919And and I think you had asked me earlier if he came from a background of law enforcement.
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00:13:33.440And uh no, his his um background and what he does for work is all in sales.
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00:13:37.600So he's really never had any any background in law enforcement at all.
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00:13:53.840And so I think it was a I think it was hard for him, and even more hard because he didn't necessarily have the connections to people to be able to um, you know, have somebody maybe that's not me to talk to about what he was experiencing as a spouse.
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00:14:07.039Um, so I think you know it's difficult for spouses for sure, but the advantage that a lot of wives have is that they connect with other wives whose husbands work together on shift and then they can build those their own connections.
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00:14:13.679Whereas I think it's difficult, more difficult for the husbands because they don't necessarily have that same ability.
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00:14:28.159No, that and that that and that was, I guess, intuitively I was thinking through that in the sense of it it it you know he there isn't the the the the the built-in community group um for him uh in that sense.
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00:14:32.879And so it he had ahead of maybe rough it out more um on his own.
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00:14:36.480When you joined, were you how many women were in the agency at the time?
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00:14:41.039And by the way, and let me ask how many eight women are in the agency now?
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00:14:48.480Yeah, I would say, you know, I wish I could say that we've increased our percentage of women here, but we really haven't.
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00:14:53.360So we're at about 12 women out of 116 sworn right now.
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00:14:58.720Um, so we have less than 10% of our agency is comprised of women.
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00:15:02.799Um, we don't get a lot of women applicants here.
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00:15:10.960Um, and so it's something that again, we continue to work on by starting earlier and trying to get more women interested in public safety.
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00:15:28.639Um, but a lot of the bigger cities, like it to the south of us, when I speak of Madison and Milwaukee, have a much higher percentage of women working for them than what we do, it seems on the northern half of the the state of Wisconsin, just not as not as many applicants coming our way.
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00:15:33.279Um so it's about the same as it was 20, 25 years ago.
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00:16:15.679Well, and and uh as the nature of policing is changing and continues to change, the the I think the role for a woman um versus a man, and again, it it it really is gender neutral to some degree, but I think there's uh it's a much more a focus on de-escalation, a much more focus on community engagement, a much more wider scope of responsibilities than you know the tr the notion of the traditional, you know, uh beet cop on the corner, so to speak, or in a in a patrol car is you know not nearly as relevant.
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00:16:40.559And and the physical requirements, I would imagine, you know, 30, 40, 50 years ago there was uh a lot more hands-on work where people had to take people down, and now um with de-escalation techniques and engaging at distance um with other tools, that's not as much of a um uh of a you know a predominant requirement.
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00:16:53.360So to some degree, um the the hope would be that you would see more women involved in this because it is so important in terms of since half the the population that they're engaging are women, if not more.
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00:16:56.879Yeah, so many things you said are so so true.
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00:17:04.880So, you know, the evolution, like early in my career, I was probably four or five years on with the when we had the introduction of the taser.
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00:17:07.359So the first taser device.
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00:17:29.440And um and so from there, to your point, there's been this evolution of this introduction of tools that have made our job um easier in the sense that we have options to disengage or to engage in different ways, which didn't necessarily involve like what I just called a traditional pig pile, which is what we had to do early on in my career.
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00:17:35.599Anytime we wanted to take somebody into custody that didn't necessarily want to be cooperative with us.
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00:17:41.519And um, so you would think that that would then you know make it more attractive for women.
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00:17:44.880And I think on some level, there's a lot of truth to that.
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00:17:57.839Um, some of the skill sets that women bring to this line of work, excuse me, um, are our strong communication skills, our empathy, our compassion.
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00:18:18.799Um, you know, we have a different kind of ability to communicate with um people in crisis that again, just an added value when you take us and men side by side working together, um, we can resolve situations, I think, more effectively than when you're looking at just men or just women.
00:18:18.799 -->
00:18:30.720And the downside, though, to this career still that we haven't been able to find a way to overcome is you know, women are the traditional home homemakers, right?
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00:18:40.000They they obviously don't have any option but to be the carrier of the child when if a family, if they decide to have a family.
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00:19:06.960And it's difficult when you are working as a patrol officer for an agency, and now you have to be taken off the road for what's probably going to be nine or 10 months total, from the time of you know, your your pregnancy has progressed to the point where you can't get your duty belt on anymore, and it's probably not safe for you to continue in that role to now you've got either three months, four months, five months postpartum.
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00:19:10.880You're you know, you're at home caring for the child, now you have to return to work.
00:19:10.880 -->
00:19:14.720And then many times when you're returning to work, it's shift work, right?
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00:19:35.759You're not working your traditional nine to five job, but many times you're working overnights, you're trying to nurse when, you know, or pump milk, like those are the things that continue to be a hardship for many women that cause them to rethink whether or not policing is really a career for them.
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00:19:43.039Um, and sometimes when they're forced into a decision where where, you know, do you who has to quit, right?
00:19:43.039 -->
00:19:55.759You know, it seems to be like the women are the ones that are kind of forced to have to either find a different career path or stay home to care for for a young family when they're faced with that situation.
00:19:55.759 -->
00:20:04.000So I think that you know that's what's preventing, I think, what you're talking about, getting those numbers to really grow.
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00:20:07.039Yeah, no, it makes total sense.
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00:20:15.440Um, you were, I guess, in some ways, and and therefore the the city of Appleton was lucky that you had already had your children to some degree.
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00:20:19.119So that you you had gotten past some of that.
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00:20:36.400But to your point, getting uh uh women to come in in their 20s, which is the time that they they would naturally enter, um, then they have to deal with um the the family issues that that uh most hopefully would would um um have to encounter.
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00:20:46.160Um I'm jumping around, but just before I forget, when you said you joined, there was 300 applicants for a small number of uh spots.
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00:20:47.839How is that today?
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00:20:49.519How many applicants do you have?
00:20:49.519 -->
00:20:51.359I assume the numbers have changed.
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00:20:55.279Yeah, the numbers have changed um significantly.
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00:21:04.720Um so generally when we keep a process open for I would say a month or two, we probably get anywhere between 40 and 60 applicants.
00:21:04.720 -->
00:21:07.759Um yeah, very different.
00:21:08.240 -->
00:21:13.200And and that's you know, it's it's one of the things which um is frustrating.
00:21:13.200 -->
00:21:19.839It's kind of half the reason I do the podcast is you know the this the policing has never been easy.
00:21:19.839 -->
00:21:22.880It and it's and it's getting much more difficult.
00:21:22.880 -->
00:21:36.000The the scope of the work that you you know, the scope of the of the issues you have to deal with, particularly mental illness, has expanded aggressively as other um social n networks and social safety nets have disappeared.
00:21:36.079 -->
00:21:36.319Uh uh.
00:21:36.799 -->
00:21:45.440And uh the the public's perception of police um has been um uh negatively affected over the last couple of decades.
00:21:45.440 -->
00:21:51.759Um George Floyd as incidents as a you know uh a painful example.
00:21:51.759 -->
00:21:59.680Uh uh and um and as such, recruiting goes down, which means overtime goes up, which means more stress on your existing officers.
00:21:59.680 -->
00:22:01.440And them retiring early.
00:22:01.440 -->
00:22:06.559It's it's a really vicious cycle of which it's very difficult to break.
00:22:06.559 -->
00:22:10.559Um am I am I am I uh on track here?
00:22:10.559 -->
00:22:12.079Does that make sense to you?
00:22:12.559 -->
00:22:14.640Yeah, I definitely think you're on track.
00:22:14.640 -->
00:22:22.880Um, you know, politics have absolutely um impacted our ability to recruit and retain people, um, for sure.
00:22:22.880 -->
00:22:35.680You know, I I tr really try to, you know, tell my my staff and my agency when we talk through some of those presenting issues or we're interviewing, you know, prospective candidates.
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00:22:52.160Like I speak to what, you know, like I try to block out the noise of what's happening across the country and encourage them to do the same and focus in on this community and what the city of Appleton, the Fox Valley, how they feel about law enforcement.
00:22:52.160 -->
00:23:06.480And I'm at least pleased to be able to share that in general, like we've got a very positive relationship with our community here, one that we we invest a lot of time and energy into cultivating and maintaining.
00:23:06.480 -->
00:23:12.480Um, but that doesn't necessarily, you know, I mean, it's we see we still are impacted.
00:23:12.480 -->
00:23:35.039I, you know, this nationwide trend of people moving away from either thinking of law enforcement in a positive way or even just generally respecting, you know, police officers or respecting the rules, laws, things like that, that traditionally, you know, 20 years ago, 30 years ago, it's like, you know, our word or what we said carried weight.
00:23:35.039 -->
00:23:37.359Whereas now, you know, we're questioned.
00:23:37.359 -->
00:23:43.920If we don't have a body camera on, it's like, well, you know, they question our integrity on a very regular basis.
00:23:43.920 -->
00:23:47.519And and so it's a completely different time to police in.
00:23:47.519 -->
00:24:02.160And I I give a lot of credit to people that are still interested in going into this line of work and that are considering policing as a career, and um because it's it's very different than it was when I went into it 25 years ago.
00:24:03.599 -->
00:24:11.920It is, um, and it's you know, it's again um part of the reason that even that I'm trying to do these podcasts.
00:24:11.920 -->
00:24:47.599It the the the education and the awareness, it's um I was talking to um someone um last night um out of the um uh the FOP um uh which is the uh fraternity uh fraternal order of police, it's a police union, and they were talking about um the the most dangerous uh you know the most dangerous times for police officers, or one of the most dangerous uh times for police officers are um when they have to uh where they're most likely to get injured is when they have to pull someone over and engage someone out of their automobile.
00:24:47.599 -->
00:24:56.240And you know, if you think about that, um that that is the time that they're most likely to get injured, hurt, or um killed.
00:24:56.240 -->
00:25:02.720Um, and the the how little um empathy we have when we're pulled over for that.
00:25:02.720 -->
00:25:05.759Because you know, you're like, oh, hey, why'd you do that?
00:25:05.759 -->
00:25:11.200Are you yeah, and if they and and then you're expecting them to be polite and nice and cheerful.
00:25:11.200 -->
00:25:15.279Um it's just it's it's just inconsistent with the fact base.
00:25:16.559 -->
00:25:17.839Yeah, yeah.
00:25:19.759 -->
00:25:35.519The uh um back to um um again, and and uh I'm um focusing on this because it's the minority of uh people I have on the show are women, so I'm gonna I'm gonna kind of uh um uh continue to unpack that topic.
00:25:35.519 -->
00:25:52.559Being uh what I what when I've interviewed other women on the show, what they've talked about is look, um being a woman versus a man, I can, you know, as long as you're physically able to do the job, frankly, the female male thing kind of goes away on a day-to-day basis because you're partners, right?
00:25:52.559 -->
00:26:04.720And you've got each other's back, um, you're part of a team, you either you do the job and you stay and you're recognized, or you can't do the job, and independent of whether you're a female or a male, it doesn't really matter.
00:26:04.720 -->
00:26:13.519Um, and and that actually makes sense to me in terms of the day-to-day policing and being a woman on a patrol or in a in a in a police unit.
00:26:13.519 -->
00:26:25.839As a as you moved up the leadership ranks and you started to have to lead and direct and give feedback, um, did the the did that present challenges being female versus male?
00:26:26.960 -->
00:26:29.599Um, yeah, I would say it definitely did.
00:26:29.599 -->
00:26:37.279Um, for me, I I can attribute some of my success um to having strong positive mentors.
00:26:37.279 -->
00:26:40.000And the mentors I had were all men.
00:26:40.000 -->
00:26:49.440Um so we didn't have women in this organization um that were in leadership roles prior to me moving up.
00:26:49.440 -->
00:26:58.240So um there were two women captains um in the history of the PD prior to me being promoted up to captain.
00:26:58.240 -->
00:26:59.440I was the third.
00:26:59.440 -->
00:27:04.000And then I was the first female assistant chief here, and then the first female chief here.
00:27:04.000 -->
00:27:15.680Um, so I really relied on having strong male mentors in my life, um, previous, you know, leaders here through this organization predominantly.
00:27:15.680 -->
00:27:23.279Um, and I think, you know, interestingly, they saw something in me and some qualities in me that I don't even think I saw in myself.
00:27:23.279 -->
00:27:47.759And by providing space for me, inviting me in to say meetings or to collaborate on certain things and um allowing me to showcase some of the talents I had for me just built my confidence and um gave me, you know, I think in some ways the permission to feel like I could apply for some of these promotions and find success in them.
00:27:47.759 -->
00:28:01.599Um and I didn't succeed the first time, which I think, you know, something I like to tell a lot of people here that, you know, that are facing challenges or are fearful about applying for a position, um, that it's okay to fail.
00:28:01.599 -->
00:28:04.960That's part of the learning experience and the growth experience.
00:28:04.960 -->
00:28:25.359And so not everything came easy and came the first time that I applied, but um, I focused on um the work and being the best possible version of myself that I could be and and really just showcased my tenacity and hard work, work ethic.
00:28:25.359 -->
00:28:35.759And that's just kind of led for for one from one thing to the next and um allowed me to be in the space that I'm in right now.
00:28:37.440 -->
00:28:52.160And I and that's one of the uh reasons I do so enjoy working in this industry or at least supporting police uh officers and police agencies and is that it's it's very much like a sports analogy.
00:28:52.160 -->
00:28:54.160It you know, the performance is performance.
00:28:54.160 -->
00:29:01.920There are politics to some degree, but you know, uh you're either a good police officer or you're not.
00:29:01.920 -->
00:29:11.599And either and you either you lead well and you you uh or you don't, and it's very much um it's very visible, so to speak.
00:29:11.599 -->
00:29:17.119It's it's it's it doesn't feel like it's a place that people can hide, um in that sense.
00:29:17.440 -->
00:29:19.839Yeah, yeah, no, you're very you're very right.
00:29:19.839 -->
00:29:32.799Um, you know, I would describe myself as more like a reluctant leader in the sense that you know I've kind of filled those gaps and filled those voids where they've needed to be filled and stepped up and and when I've needed to step up.
00:29:32.799 -->
00:29:41.359And um I think at the time I applied for the chief's position here, it was just I was what this agency needed and I knew that.
00:29:41.359 -->
00:29:57.680And so I even though it was not something I ever set out to do, I actually really miss the patrol work and the contact I would I would be having regularly with victims of crime, or I worked for a long time as a school resource officer, which I loved.
00:29:57.680 -->
00:30:00.559Um, I don't get to do really much policing anymore.
00:30:00.559 -->
00:30:17.119I mean, everything I do is either political in nature and dealing with, you know, our city council or the mayor or, you know, like those large strategic things and not really the minutiae of doing a traffic stop and just having that public contact.
00:30:17.119 -->
00:30:20.000And I miss that part a lot.
00:30:20.000 -->
00:30:25.119Um, but you know, again, I service can look different in different ways.
00:30:25.119 -->
00:30:28.880And for me at the time, I promoted 13 years ago.
00:30:28.880 -->
00:30:38.400And um, it was just at a time where that's what I felt like how I best could serve the agency and serve the city is is through a leadership position.
00:30:38.400 -->
00:30:42.720And and that's you know, when I encourage others, that's those are the discussions we have.
00:30:42.720 -->
00:30:45.119Like you're gonna miss parts of of the job.
00:30:45.119 -->
00:30:49.200The higher you move up, the less policing you do in this kind of work.
00:30:49.200 -->
00:30:52.079But at the same time, it's still about service.
00:30:52.079 -->
00:30:54.160It's just it looks different, you know.
00:30:54.160 -->
00:31:04.799Now I I do what I can to nurture our employees here and provide them with the resources that they need to meet their goals and um that they've set for themselves.
00:31:04.799 -->
00:31:11.359And to to, you know, to me, I find a lot of satisfaction and and pleasure in just doing that.
00:31:11.839 -->
00:31:19.519Now I have to ask, as the school resource officer, did your kids go to the same school that you were the uh the SRO?
00:31:20.000 -->
00:31:21.920Yeah, just for a short period of time.
00:31:21.920 -->
00:31:29.519Um I worked, yeah, when they were in elementary school, and then I moved into the um at-risk high school.
00:31:29.519 -->
00:31:33.759And so then, yeah, but then we didn't have the the day-to-day contact anymore.
00:31:33.759 -->
00:31:42.240But I could tell you a lot of stories about my poor kids and the experiences they had having a mom work work in the schools as an officer.
00:31:42.480 -->
00:31:49.359So well, I you know, I was uh with um a uh one of the women that uh works at our company.
00:31:49.359 -->
00:31:53.680Um her father is a uh was uh is a retired police chief.
00:31:53.680 -->
00:31:58.400He was and he was the police chief of the town that you know she grew up in.
00:31:58.400 -->
00:32:06.079And you know, they there were stories about their interactions and interactions with boyfriends um and how that must have felt.
00:32:06.079 -->
00:32:10.240Um and how did your children um respond?
00:32:10.240 -->
00:32:14.319I mean, it must have been kind of cool to have to have the mom as the police chief.
00:32:14.319 -->
00:32:23.839Um, but I would imagine there was some there was a um uh I don't know, there was other the I'd love you to share a story if you could.
00:32:23.839 -->
00:32:25.279It's I I find it interesting.
00:32:26.079 -->
00:32:34.880Well, you know, the the one that comes to mind is I would drive them to school and drop them off at school in my squad car, my way to work some some days.
00:32:34.880 -->
00:32:52.559And and I vividly remember at the time my son was in high school, my daughter would have been in middle school, and I was had both of them in the car, and somebody as I was near the high school, one of the kids had like a really, really egregious traffic vibe, like a safety thing.
00:32:52.559 -->
00:32:52.960Right.
00:32:52.960 -->
00:32:56.079And so I I'm like, I have to do a traffic stop.
00:32:56.079 -->
00:33:02.880And both of my kids were like heads down in the squad car, they didn't want anybody to see them.
00:33:02.880 -->
00:33:10.160They were absolutely mortified that mom had to do a traffic stop on another classmate.
00:33:10.160 -->
00:33:12.720So, you know, it depends on the stage they're at.
00:33:12.720 -->
00:33:17.200Like elementary school, they think it's the best thing ever because they're just so proud of the work.
00:33:17.200 -->
00:33:27.119And then they get into that weird, awkward stage where they're proud, but then they have to act embarrassed because they don't necessarily always like the attention it brings them.
00:33:27.119 -->
00:33:31.839Then by the time I promoted to chief, they were well out of high school.
00:33:31.839 -->
00:33:39.119And so my son actually went into policing and was a police officer for three years before deciding on a career change.
00:33:39.119 -->
00:33:46.799But um, I think if you were to ask them, I think they they they would look at that experience as very positive for both of them.
00:33:47.119 -->
00:33:47.839So I'm sure.
00:33:47.839 -->
00:33:48.559I'm sure.
00:33:48.559 -->
00:33:53.359Um, but at least uh a couple of funny uh fun stories uh to look back on.
00:33:53.359 -->
00:33:58.079I like the one of you having to pull over someone uh while they're in the back seat.
00:33:58.079 -->
00:34:05.920Well, um uh I could um this has been fascinating, Chief, and you've been very generous with your time.
00:34:05.920 -->
00:34:09.920Um, but uh we should let you get back to your day-to-day job.
00:34:09.920 -->
00:34:12.880Um, I'll have just one last question for you.
00:34:12.880 -->
00:34:17.360Um, and that is we'd like to make a small honorarium in your name.
00:34:17.360 -->
00:34:23.760Um, and what um is there a charity of uh that we could make a donation uh on your behalf?
00:34:24.159 -->
00:34:25.360Yeah, I would love that.
00:34:25.360 -->
00:34:34.320Um so one of the the charities that helps fund our our um canine program here is called Canines for a Safer Community.
00:34:34.320 -->
00:34:44.239Um and so that would be a great charity to donate to that again helps us um fund our our canine program for the city of Appleton.
00:34:44.559 -->
00:34:45.679Oh well, fantastic.
00:34:45.679 -->
00:35:02.400And for listeners hearing my dog bark outside my room, um hopefully that that was kind of um um, you know, uh quote either uh uh Freudian, so to speak, to have a dog bark and to have uh uh Chief Olson ask us for a donation to the canine group.
00:35:02.400 -->
00:35:04.239Um too funny.
00:35:04.239 -->
00:35:07.920Um Chief Olson, thank you again for taking the time.
00:35:07.920 -->
00:35:10.880Um congratulations on the on your career.
00:35:10.880 -->
00:35:22.960Congratulations on the work um that you've done um and um you know uh continued success in in bringing in the next set of leaders and the next set of officers, whether they be male or female.
00:35:22.960 -->
00:35:27.440Um uh it's it's uh the city of Apple's very lucky to have you there.
00:35:27.920 -->
00:35:28.400Thank you.
00:35:28.400 -->
00:35:42.719I really appreciate that, and thank you for the work that that you do and just for uh again teaching our listeners of of what kinds of opportunities exist in public safety, and hopefully maybe we can get a few more recruits out of it as well.
00:35:43.679 -->
00:35:44.800Absolutely.
00:35:44.800 -->
00:35:49.599Well, folks, um what an interesting um discussion.
00:35:49.599 -->
00:36:03.599Uh the uh half the population uh is female, and therefore, like in most jobs, you would assume that half the population of of police officers would be female.
00:36:03.599 -->
00:36:05.599Uh and that isn't the case.
00:36:05.599 -->
00:36:09.920Um it's uh they are still uh a small minority.
00:36:09.920 -->
00:36:37.360And um um I I think that's uh and and Chief Olson articulating some of the challenges historically, but also articulating uh the path forward looks much brighter that um with de-escalation tools, with um the the uh the importance of engaging in a wider scope of topics like mental illness, um, we need more uh female officers.
00:36:37.360 -->
00:36:47.679Um and we need more female executives to provide the leadership to and the space and the and the the mentorship to to bring more females into those leadership positions.
00:36:47.679 -->
00:36:57.840Um and I think Chief Olson's is a good example that it's possible and not only possible, but a very positive experience.
00:36:57.840 -->
00:37:03.280Having said that, I I was fascinated to to listen to and hear the challenges, right?
00:37:03.280 -->
00:37:06.239How do you raise a family in that context?
00:37:06.239 -->
00:37:16.079Um how do you manage um pregnancies and and all the the uh the things that come along with that when you're not at a normal desk job?
00:37:16.079 -->
00:37:24.800Um and how do police agencies evolve to try to support females as they uh they move up the ranks?
00:37:24.800 -->
00:37:28.480Um so it's it's an important topic.
00:37:28.480 -->
00:37:37.360It's certainly you know um one that that police agencies will need to continue to put focus on as they do on other topics like mental health and mental wellness.
00:37:37.360 -->
00:37:43.280Um this is another area that uh um hopefully police agencies across the the U.S.
00:37:43.280 -->
00:37:45.199will continue to get better at.
00:37:45.199 -->
00:38:09.519So um wrapping up, um again, you've been listening um and hopefully enjoyed listening My name is Bob Plaschke. This is First Response. It is a um a podcast dedicated to understanding the stories behind the people that wear a badge, who um the very brave first responders, more than a million out there in the United States.
00:38:09.519 -->
00:38:18.480Um and um I am very um privileged um that this is sponsored by PepperBall, um, the company that I have the honor to be the CEO of.
00:38:18.480 -->
00:38:36.159And again, PepperBall, offers non-lethal tools that allow police officers to do their jobs um but not have to use their guns and um and and not have to suffer and keep themselves and the public that they serve safe.
00:38:36.159 -->
00:38:40.159Until next time, appreciate it and be safe out there.
