89 - Discovering Purpose in Trauma - The Craig DeMartino Story

Conrad Weaver (01:38.423)
Well, Craig DiMartino, welcome to the First Responder Wellness Podcast. It's great to see you.
Craig (01:43.074)
Man, thank you so much for having me. really am looking forward to chatting with Conrad.
Conrad Weaver (01:47.029)
Yeah, for our audience, Craig and I go back many years, back to when I was living in Colorado. We worked together for a few years there. And, so Craig, tell us a little bit about what happened, back in, was it July or August of 2002?
Craig (02:03.436)
Yeah, July. Yeah, I've been a climber most of my life. I started climbing right out of college with a friend who took us for his bachelor party. And it just kind of ingrained in me right away. I was like, my gosh, this is kind of what I want to do. And that's been like 34 years ago now. So it's just something that that very first day I loved and just kind of stuck with it and ended up moving to Colorado and climbing out here and working out here as a photographer.
And then in 2002 was climbing with a good friend. Our kids were really young at the time. They were two and four. So my wife, Cindy and I would switch kind of, you one of us would go one day and then we would kind of piggyback back and forth like that. And so I went out with our good friend of ours, Steve, and we went up to Rocky Mountain National Park, which is about 35 minutes from our house. And we were going to go do this objective kind of deep in the park at this thing called Sundance buttress.
which is about a thousand foot escarpment of granite. It's beautiful. Part of lumpy ridge, which is near Estes park. And Steve and I hiked out there pretty quickly. both excited. We kind of warmed up on a route and then went over to this other route that he had talked to me about. he had climbed previously, but, in climbing you, know, somebody has to go first and somebody comes up second and that person going first is called the leader. The second one is the follower.
And so Steve didn't want to lead the climb. had top roped it before, which means someone else had led it and he would kind of done it and looked at it. But, I was excited to do that. And so we got out to the cliff, tied in. and I feel, you know, he felt a little off, felt a little nervous, which is pretty normal for me. get like still get butterflies. Yeah. It's a new route for me. the route had had kind of a weird reputation, you know, a little bit kind of devious to put your protection in. in the park we put in.
Conrad Weaver (03:42.551)
It's a new route, right? Yeah, for you.
Craig (03:53.548)
protection that's removable. So in the cracks, we throw cams in and then the second comes up and pulls out those cams. So you don't leave anything in the rock or hurt the rock. So I led the pitch and Steve and I just, we had been climbing pretty long at that time together and also individually. So I had been climbing about 13 or 14 years at that point. And Steve had been climbing actually 17 or 20 at that point. So we had a fair amount of experience and kind of little bit of slang when we were talking about how we were going to do things.
We were going to top, Steve wanted to top rope and he didn't want to lead it and it didn't want to like do anything weird. And so that word in climbing is a pretty normal, simple word. But when you say top rope, I assumed what he meant and he assumed what I meant. so whenever that happens, then things get kind of wonky. And so I was under the impression that I was going to be lowered from the top down and then I would belay from the ground and Steve would, we would kind of run some fitness laps on this thing and just see how he felt. And.
His idea was, he'll bring me up to the ledge, we'll repel off together and then do those fitness laps again. That was never kind of clarified or explored. We just said top rope, we assumed, okay, this is what that person means because again, he and I climbed together a lot. I took off the climb, climbs 100 feet tall to the end of the first pitch and everything was fine. You know, got to the top and there were.
three bolts in the rock, which clambers kind of drill into the rock as an anchor point. And I clipped into that anchor point and I told Steve that I was off the lay, which means that at this moment I'm safe. I'm clipped directly into the anchor, which I was, and now I'm getting ready to be lowered. So to get lowered, you have to do a couple of things to kind of neaten up the station. And that's what I did. Once I liked how everything looked, I yelled back down to him and I said, okay, Steve, I'm all good. I'm ready.
He heard that thinking, okay, he's now ready to bring me up. What had happened was Steve, when I set off belay, he un-clipped from his belay device, went over to his backpack to get his shoes, which is totally normal. That's what you do. You need your climbing shoes. So he was putting, actually tying his climbing shoes on. So when I yelled down and said I was all good, or that I was ready, he yelled up, okay, you're all good. And so I heard that. We couldn't see each other. The climb's pretty steep. And so when I looked down, all I could see was granite and pine trees. And so...
Craig (06:16.992)
I heard that he was all good. I kind of looked at the rope once more just to make sure it was running smooth. And I actually pulled on it. Just I wanted to feel tension from him. And I felt the weight of the rope, which, you know, over a hundred feet climbing the heaviest thing we do in a climbing pack is our rope. It's quite heavy. So I felt tension and I thought, okay, he asked me. So I pulled in, unclip sat and I just started falling and immediately thought, okay, this is kind of
Conrad Weaver (06:34.475)
Mm-hmm.
Craig (06:45.842)
odd, but maybe he just has a big old loop of slack and that's what I'm feeling. And so the rope kind of slowed a little bit and I felt a little bit of friction and then it kept picking up and I kept dropping. then I thought, and because this happened to me at one point, a friend of mine had fallen when he was belaying me and lowering me and he kind of got drug a little bit. I thought, maybe he tripped, he's sliding and this is going to stop my fall eventually. around 20 feet, I started
Realizing I'm picking up a lot of speed and I thought okay. I'm going far So I didn't think the ground I just thought I'm gonna stop at some point So I kind of pushed off the rock so I was right against it falling and I didn't want to smash into things because things stick out, know poke out and When I push that's good. It gets me away from the cliff and I could see down perfectly to the ground But I also started tipping and so I was falling sideways and kind of horizontal to the cliff at that point. So follow
Conrad Weaver (07:30.56)
Mm-hmm.
Craig (07:44.126)
that hundred feet and about 20 feet from the ground, was a pine tree, a dead pine tree. And I clipped that with my head and I wasn't wearing a helmet, but the pine tree stood me back up. So I was laying and then it put me right into this orientation where I hit the ground with both legs first. So that from that distance from a hundred feet, it's pretty hard to survive laying, you your organs, everything just gets crushed. But
Conrad Weaver (07:55.383)
Hmm.
Conrad Weaver (08:08.257)
Sure.
Craig (08:09.812)
Landing on my feet my feet take the brunt of everything, you know, so they exploded So I had compound fractures on both legs and the ankles and the tibia and the heel And then that shockwave has to kind of go somewhere So it kind of rose up through my body and broke my back at l2 which is right through your belly button And I hit so hard that it actually just compressed it into powder that it just destroyed it and blew all that Debris into my spinal cord onto the cord Kind of kept going up
Broke my ribs on my right side, my shoulder on my right side, my elbow on my right side, and then came up through my neck and broke my neck at C5, C6. So that's right at your Adam's apple here. And then exited, know, and then I crumpled down onto the talus blocks, are, you know, blocks that have fallen off the cliff over time. And some are tiny, you know, like size of a baseball. Some are as big as a refrigerator, you know, and I just landed in that jumble. So Steve was off to my left, climber left.
as I kind of crumpled onto the ground and he ran over. When I hit, I severed the artery in my right leg and the tibial artery, which runs down over your ankle bone. So I was bleeding really badly on the ground. So Steve had some first day training, which thank God he did. So he grabbed a stick and a sling off my harness and immediately put a tourniquet on my leg to slow that bleeding down. But he also knew like, my God, he just fell a hundred feet. Like this is terrible. And we are about...
Conrad Weaver (09:31.767)
I'm fine, yeah.
Craig (09:35.31)
four and a half miles in the back country next to a really tall monolith of granite. So normally don't get any cell signals in there. Nothing kind of works great. So we kind of knew that. And so he kind of looked at me and I kept saying the only thing I could feel, didn't, my feet were broken so bad. couldn't even feel them, but my back felt like I had like a rock in my back. So I kept, I kept saying that to him and I was like, can you get me off these rocks? And so he was like, I knew you were messed up. I knew your
Conrad Weaver (09:37.121)
Hmm.
Craig (10:03.414)
You were shattered and he's like, thought you were paralyzed. So I thought pulling you over the rock is probably not going to matter anyway. So he just under my arms, pulled me down off these rocks into a dirt spot and just put up my pack and his pack under me so I couldn't roll. And then we started talking. I was awake. I was awake through the whole thing and never lost consciousness. I don't remember hitting the ground. I remember falling. And then I remember looking up at the cliff like, and I was very confused. You're
Conrad Weaver (10:21.227)
You never lost consciousness from that. Wow.
Craig (10:30.562)
when that much trauma, your brain can't catch up. It's almost like you're on a delay. And I was like, why am I on the ground? I don't understand that. And then the pain in my back kind of kicked in. So he got me comfortable, I'll air quote that. And the plan was he was gonna run to my truck, which was parked about four and a half miles away, drive into town, which was 10 minutes. So you start adding all that up. I'm bleeding pretty bad. And he's like, man, I gotta get him out of here.
So he took off and in my vision, all I could see, I was just looking up at the sky, you know, so could see sky pine trees and he disappeared and almost immediately he's back. And I was like, that's weird. And again, I thought, maybe I passed out. You don't know what's happening. And he was like, I have a phone. is 2002 cell phones weren't quite as prevalent. are pretty prevalent, but like in the back country, not so much. And so he turned his phone on and boom, got a signal. And so he dialed nine one one and
got into the rescue system, the 911 operator said, okay, I'm gonna patch you through to Rocky Mountain Rescue who does all the rescues in the park. The guy who picked that phone up, his name was Eric Gabriel and Eric was not only a ranger in the park, but he was also a climbing ranger. So he said, okay, where are you? And Steve told him the route name, which was called White Man. And he was like, I know exactly where you are. so within...
25 minutes in the backcountry because of some right of ways that the Park Service can use. He was able to drive almost into the base and then run and he took off. So he was at my side probably within 35 minutes. I had to train DMT with me. And so he was assessing, he had already started the wheel turning for the rescue, but he was there just kind of assessing, okay, how bad is this? Because when he and I have spoken, you know, after he said, you know, I heard how far you hit.
Conrad Weaver (12:06.679)
Wow. Wow.
Craig (12:21.58)
And he's like, I just figured we were doing a recovery at this point. And he's like, I knew you were alive. And he's like, I didn't expect you to live. So of course, as the patient, you don't know any of that. You're just like trying to figure out what's going on. so Eric kind of started that all process, because we were so far back, they had to do like these litter lowers to get me down the talus to a trail that took some time. I fell at about two 30 in the afternoon on July 21st, and it took them.
roughly two and a half hours to get me, or probably three hours to get me to the trail where then they can put a wheel on the litter and then they just haul. And so within seven hours, about five hours, they got me to the helicopter. Then they kind of did a little bit of triage there. That's actually when I learned how bad my feet were broken because they, when they load you in a flight for life, there's a bulkhead and the sort of the gurney or the litter slides in goes under that bulkhead. My feet were too high. And when they slid the
Conrad Weaver (12:59.094)
Mm-hmm.
Conrad Weaver (13:13.163)
Mm-hmm.
Craig (13:20.286)
Littering they hit my feet on the bulkhead and it was like that was the worst pain ever And Eric couldn't give me anything for pain because my lungs were punctured And so was having trouble breathing and he was like, I didn't want to bring your breathing down more once they hit the bulkhead the flight nurse was like You know, bye. Bye. He gave me something and the next thing I knew I was in the hospital and so Evidently, I was awake giving him information talking, but he said we just knocked down your you
Conrad Weaver (13:22.881)
Hmm. Hmm.
Conrad Weaver (13:34.827)
Mm-hmm.
Conrad Weaver (13:40.055)
Mm-hmm.
Craig (13:50.176)
awareness of what was happening. So all of that probably took about seven hours and then that started this really long process of like, not recovery, but like kind of rebuilding because
Conrad Weaver (13:51.063)
Mm-hmm.
Conrad Weaver (14:00.535)
But they, weren't, I the surgeons weren't expecting you to live through the night where they.
Craig (14:05.262)
No, when they brought me in, they told Cindy I had about an hour to live just because of all the damage. And he's like, we're going to do everything we possibly can. And she said, obviously do that. But my lungs were punctured. My ribs are broken. So many broken bones, internal bleeding. had a massive hematoma on my chest from hitting the ground so hard. So I had this big pocket of blood. Plus I had lost a lot of blood because of artery being torn.
So they basically the first night when they got me there, they just, all they went in was they, it's called deep breathing. They go in and they pick all the shards out of your spinal cord. And my spinal cord was just littered. So when they, that took time to do that. And then they had to fuse my back. So they had to go in and take some bone from my hip, build a new L2. And then they fused that for four levels in my lumbar spine.
The problem with that is the good thing is it gives you structure. The bad thing is you lose function, you lose mobility, all these weird things. And because I had so much stuff in my cord, anytime you touch your cord with anything, you lose that. So they cleaned it up as best they could, but I have a spinal cord injury now from my waist down. I can't feel behind me. So anything like halfway down my body, I can't feel you. So if you come up behind me or if I sit in water for instance,
I can't tell I'm sitting in water, there's nothing there. And then my left foot, I had so much nerve damage, I can't really feel my foot at all. I know it's down there doing something, but I can't really feel it. And then that doctor, that orthopedic came out and said, he was actually a neurosurgeon, and he was like, that's all we can do. So why don't we see if he lives the night? If he lives the night, we'll take the next step. And put me on a ventilator, I couldn't breathe on my own. And Cindy said, you know, we just waited. You know, she had gotten there at that point.
I had seen her on the lower out because Eric asked me once, he's like, hey man, do you want to call your wife? And I was like, that's a horrible idea. Like I don't want her to worry about this, no way. And so I don't know, certain amount of time went by and he asked me again. And that was my first kind of clue, like, I might be hurt really bad. So then I said, yeah, go ahead and call her. And she ran in actually, she came in, I saw her really briefly. So she kind of then met me at the hospital.
Craig (16:20.352)
And then they just waited. I did obviously live that first 24 hours. They waited another day and then they went back in and worked on my feet. And he said, you know, your feet were so bad, but, we thought if we amputate his legs, he'll, he won't be able to survive that surgery. It's too heavy. So let's just leave them. Let's like cast everything, put some hardware in there just like, see what happens. Let this thing calm down. And that was kind of my.
my life at that point. They put me into ICU. I stayed there for five days. After ICU, they moved me to a step down unit in the orthopedic wing where I spent two weeks. And, you know, we would do a surgery like every other day. They'd go in and debride, they'd clean, they'd have to do all this weird stuff to my right leg. My right leg was broken pretty badly, kind of more badly than my left. My left was shattered as well, but my right was kind of pulverized more at the foot.
Conrad Weaver (16:49.068)
Hmm.
Craig (17:15.35)
And so they were building and rebuilding and trying to get this thing to look like a foot again. and then at that, after that two week Mark, they were like, okay, you clearly can't go home. So we're going to send you to like an assisted living. And so I went to like another step down to an assisted living place and I spent there. stayed for two months. So that kind of got that ball rolling of like, okay, now we try to rebuild what we have and see kind of where that takes us is, what it looks like for me.
Conrad Weaver (17:34.187)
Hmm.
Conrad Weaver (17:43.347)
Mm-hmm. And then you ended up then later a few months later, then they actually took your right leg, right?
Craig (17:50.242)
Yeah, about, about 18 months after this, I left the hospital, went back home, trying to like sort all that out. And, then, at about 18 months, it was just not healing. And I developed this nerve disorder, from them reattaching the tibial nerve, in one of the surgeries they did that. And basically once that nerve woke up, it was mad and it was, what it does is it remembers the last thing you did. So that was hitting the ground from a hundred feet, you know, so.
Not not a happy thing for the nerve to remember and all of a sudden it just started sending these wicked bad pain signals So my neurosurgeon said, you know If you amputate you might go above it, but it is up here. So like We don't know what will happen. That said your leg is junk like you should talk to your orthopedic and my orthopedic At one point described it as mashed potatoes on the end of a stick. He's like, that's what your heel looks like So he's like it's not gonna heal
And I said, I think I'm going to amputate it. And he was like, that's probably the best idea. So he didn't want to offer that information until I was comfortable with it. Once I got there, that's a really heady thing to get your mind around, you know, like.
Conrad Weaver (18:55.713)
Mm-hmm.
Conrad Weaver (18:59.381)
Yeah. How did you, how did you get your mind around that?
Craig (19:02.688)
It was more like it was slow. was like, you know, I had to work up to it. That 18 months was kind of me building towards that, I believe. and I've tried to go, you know, I knew I wanted to climb again. I had no idea what that looked like. and my wife, Cindy is a core climber as well. She's climbed as long as I have. And she, you know, at one point in the, in the rehab said to me, if you want to climb again, I get it. If you don't want to climb again, I get that too. And she said, we'll work with whatever you want to do.
Conrad Weaver (19:09.793)
Mm-hmm.
Craig (19:31.938)
but if you want to climb again, we'll do this together and figure it out. And so I kind of went climbing a couple of times with the cast. I was still wearing a cast that whole 18 months I was wearing a cast on my legs. So I couldn't fit in a shoe, couldn't walk across even a level floor without a lot of pain. And so I was like, you know, I'm done, dude, I'm just done. And so he was like, we can, we can be pretty precise with this. can cut off what we need to cut off. You'll have a functional prosthetic at this point, at that point.
And so I kind of looked at it as like it was one of the things I could do to kind of get some power back, you know, cause the accident up until that point was kind of just taking and taking and taking. And this was me saying, you know what, I'm kind of done with this. Like I'm going to now take something back on my own here. And that's me saying, I'm going to cut this off so I can hopefully move forward. so 18 months later, I was in December 2nd, remember the day perfectly.
Conrad Weaver (20:06.407)
Mm-hmm.
Conrad Weaver (20:10.583)
Hmm.
Craig (20:27.906)
Cindy drove me to the hospital like five in the morning. And that is super trippy. Cause you know, you're the whole time you're like, I don't have to go do this. Like I don't have to go there. And we get to the hospital, lay down, I'm freaking out. And as I'm in my brain, like I'm not doing this. There's no way I can't. looked up in my, so Cindy was on my right. That my doctor came through like the curtain and he looked at me and he was like, you're doing the right thing. Just relax. We got you.
Conrad Weaver (20:35.541)
Mm-hmm.
Craig (20:56.118)
And I kind of just needed to hear that from him. And I felt like, okay. And I had an IV in already and they gave me like something to knock me down. And I wanted to be awake when I went into the operating room, I had been through so many surgeries. I just wanted to be awake and just, I knew the team just wanted to see what was going on. So I was aware going into the operating room. And then the next thing, boom, I woke up without a leg shorter on my right side, but.
Conrad Weaver (21:20.791)
What's that feel like? I mean, to come out with now, I mean, here you are, avid climber, outdoor enthusiast, you ski, all those things, and now you don't have a leg.
Craig (21:30.774)
Yeah. And they warn you, they tell you like, hey, when you wake up, you're not going to be the same. You know, it's going to look really weird. And so when I woke up, I was expecting it and you look down, you know, and the sheet on that side of the bed is flat and the other leg is get your foot. And so it was really weird in the hospital. was kind of, you know, because I was expecting it, I wasn't like, like what the heck.
Conrad Weaver (21:54.698)
Mm-hmm.
Craig (21:56.174)
Then what was harder for me was, know, I went home after what five days or something like that. I was in the bathroom with the door shut and we had a full length mirror. So I was in a wheelchair and I saw myself for the first time in a mirror. And I don't really think I had seen myself that much. Even in the hospital and at the house. Yeah, since the accident, I hadn't really seen myself in a full length mirror like that. I didn't have a shirt on so I could see all the scars on my back, on my neck, on my.
Conrad Weaver (22:15.479)
Since the accident.
Craig (22:24.738)
all the road rash that I got and then the leg is gone. And so that was like kind of like a slap. Like you, cause you, you know, you realize you can't back up and reattach it, but when you see it for the first time, you realize, my God, that's gone. And that ain't coming back. So it took me, you know, no exaggeration. It probably a good year of looking at myself and just thinking, okay, this is different, but it's fine. I'm going to figure it out.
And I started to just kind of embrace like, okay, this is what I am now. And so what does that look like, you know, going forward? And nobody knows you, you're kind of, you know, you can map it as much as you want, but your body just kind of tells you no. So for me, was like listening, okay, what can I do today? And I started breaking everything down into these like kind of manageable chunks, including climbing, including my relationships with my family. Just like, okay, I can do.
this much in a day and then I'm wasted. So let's really focus on that and then kind of apply that across the spectrum and see where that takes us. What does climbing look like? What does my family life look like? What does my work life look like? Because that was all new. My identity was a climber, a photographer and a dad and husband. And I thought two of those things are probably gonna be gone now. And so,
Conrad Weaver (23:46.967)
Hmm.
Craig (23:49.838)
climbing is gonna be gone and work, don't think I can, I at that point didn't think I could work again. And that's terrifying, know, that I was, we were a single income household. I was just terrified of that, but slowly.
Conrad Weaver (24:04.065)
Did you have any outside help as far as to work that through your brain? mean, did you have any mental health help to kind of process that?
Craig (24:11.756)
Yeah. Yeah, we went so right. We're not right after, but like once I kind of amputated the ours, my doctor was like, you know, you should probably go talk to someone because you're going to have some PS PTSD issues and you know, you need to like explore this. You don't want to just like wing it. And so we went, Cindy and I went together for the first time because we wanted to go in as a couple and we talked to her and she said, you know, you guys, we don't need to talk together. You guys are fine without you guys are doing what you should be doing.
but let's split you apart singularly and talk. And so I would go and talk with her. And at some point we just got to this, like, I guess point in my journey where she was like, you've got the tools in your tool kit, so you just need to manage them now. Cindy kind of kept doing her thing because she had to like kind of reconcile like, how did this happen? I think I was kind of a little ahead of that. It wasn't like, how did this happen? Because I understood it was an accident. was.
you know, both parties just kind of being too comfortable. But you know, you have to, as the spouse looking in, you you have to be okay with all the things that are happening and how it affects your family and your life. And so Cindy kind of worked through on her own stuff. And then I worked through on my own stuff. And then we came, we were always coming back together. And so it helped just to kind of talk through it. Like, this is what I'm scared of. This is what I think this looks like now. What's expected of me from other people? What, do I expect from myself? And so,
Conrad Weaver (25:25.495)
Hmm.
Conrad Weaver (25:38.615)
Mm-hmm.
Craig (25:39.948)
You have to explore all that. I think talking to a mental health professional helps you do that because as a, just a regular human, I don't think we have those tools. And if we have those tools, we don't know how to use them. So it was good to have somebody say, this is what you're feeling. This is why you're feeling it. This is what you can do with that. And so it was, it was freeing, you know, to be able to say, just really speak honestly. Cause Cindy was always the one I was bouncing.
Conrad Weaver (25:49.751)
Yeah.
Conrad Weaver (25:58.519)
you
Craig (26:07.04)
everything off of, but to have another party come in and say, okay, yeah, what you're, this, what, what you're feeling is valid. This is why you're feeling it. This is what you can do to kind of mitigate it. So yeah, talking to her.
Conrad Weaver (26:16.577)
Did they give you any, any processes to go through or things to do to work on to kind of get to that good mental health, point in your, in your thoughts.
Craig (26:26.766)
Yeah, I mean, the biggest takeaway for me was what I was doing already was breaking everything into a manageable chunk. And I think I got that from climbing, you know, so when you're climbing a really big objective, it's, it's overwhelming. When you look up and you see a 3000 foot piece of rock that you're supposed to climb, your brain can't function. can't get that in. It can't look at that and go, yeah, no worries.
Conrad Weaver (26:32.439)
Hmm.
Conrad Weaver (26:46.551)
Mm-hmm.
Craig (26:50.19)
Your brain is on overload, so you have to break it into manageable chunks and then climbers do that by rope lengths. So, you know, the first rope length is the thing you tackle and then even within that you can break that into even smaller chunks and say, okay, I'm just going to focus on these next three handholds. What does that do? What's my position? What do I do now? If I fall, what's going to happen? And so I was able to kind of replicate that in the healing process. Like, okay, today I can do this and that's it. And so
Conrad Weaver (27:02.508)
Hmm.
Craig (27:18.594)
tomorrow I will see if I can add on to that. And those manageable chunks became bigger. And then as that kind of echoed out, that kind of went into every aspect of my life, I think.
Conrad Weaver (27:28.727)
Did, did you have any thoughts or issues with like, what, what's, what are people going to think of me now with my body and how I look?
Craig (27:37.504)
Yeah, 100%. I mean, I think anyone who says, I don't have any care what people look at me and think, I think that's not true. I think we all on some level do that. And so for me, was like, I was 38 and I'm like, here I am this, you know, sort of young guy who's shattered. People are going to see the leg, they're going to see the scars. What are they going to think happened? I wasn't prepared for people coming up and talking to me about it.
people had heard about the accident, then also people who I didn't even know would come up and say, oh, what happened to your leg? And that's, you're just not prepared. I wasn't prepared for that. I just didn't think, I never did that as a, before I got hurt, I never went up to somebody with an artificial limb and said, what happened? know, I just, not my business, right? But in retrospect now I look back and people are just curious, you know, on, many different levels. And I think what happens is people kind of,
Conrad Weaver (28:17.846)
Right.
Craig (28:31.96)
Project onto you what they're feeling. So if they look at you and go, my god, that's horrible I can't imagine what that person is dealing with then they come over and they want to talk and see what it's like so Even to this day that that is something that I navigate, you know weekly it happens all the time And so it's it's one of those things where talking to a therapist helped me but also just understanding like this isn't someone being weird This is just them being curious and wanting to know little kids are awesome. They think you're
Conrad Weaver (28:59.061)
Mm-hmm.
Craig (28:59.576)
kind of part robot, so they wanna like kick your leg and do all this weird stuff. for the most part, it's just like you having to let go a bit of like, okay, I can't get wrapped up in this. I wear shorts every day. It's just easier for me even in the winter, just because of the leg. I take my leg on and off all the time, because it's not comfortable all the time. And so, I mean, people see it. It's real easy to look at me and go, something bad happened here. And so I feel like...
Conrad Weaver (29:12.247)
Hmm.
Conrad Weaver (29:24.279)
Mm-hmm.
Craig (29:27.542)
I'm okay with talking about it now and obviously that has become a big part of who I am. But it's a weird thing to get your brain around at first because you're like, is weird, I'm talking about something very personal with a person I don't know. It's kind of odd.
Conrad Weaver (29:38.539)
Yeah. Right. I remember you told me a couple of years ago, you told me a story about when the first time you went skiing with your, with your artificial head, can you tell that story?
Craig (29:46.286)
Hahaha
Yeah, I was with Cindy and our friend George and Cindy went skiing with George and then George and I went out and I had the ski on, I had the boot on and when I ski, I just wear two boots. You can't tell that I have a prosthetic. And we're riding the chair lift and we didn't have the bar down. And so my legs are just hanging, you know, which we're talking, we had done one run on like this really easy groomer slope. And as he and I are talking, I was like, yeah, you know, that went well. It didn't hurt. I feel pretty good.
But in my head, was like, my leg feels really loose. And all of a sudden it just popped off. it just, because I had lost so much weight and the cold makes you constrict, my leg was loose and the lock was pushed inside my ski boot, which I didn't know. Cause normally you're held on with this pin and the pin ratchets down in and it's held and it can't be released until you push the lock. Well, when I buckled my boot tight, the boot pushed the lock and I didn't know that. And so all of a sudden my leg, my prosthetic,
my ski boot and the ski fall off and they just right straight down. And I'm looking and I'm like, Oh my gosh, what now? And I look at my friend George and he just starts laughing. And I'm like, then I start laughing and we ride the chair the rest of the way. And I'm like, well, I guess I'll ski down on one leg. I mean, I've seen people do that. Um, my balance is for his garbage. So I was like, this is going to be interesting. But, uh, as I'm coming up, the lift operator is coming out. It was a young girl and she's kind of laughing.
Conrad Weaver (31:08.023)
Mm-hmm.
Craig (31:15.02)
And I look at my friend and I go, she's laughing at me. And he goes, dude, no, she's not. And she goes, she just kind of does that. And I kind of ski over as best I can. And she goes, it's coming up on the, on a chair. I'm like, okay. So as we're sitting there, here comes the ski patroller and he's just holding the ski. So my whole leg is just rising straight up in the air. And this dude is just holding the ski. comes up, he looks at me, skis over and he goes, is this yours? And I started laughing and I'm like, no, man, like mine's a different one down there. Could you go back?
Conrad Weaver (31:25.865)
you
Conrad Weaver (31:33.042)
Ha ha.
Conrad Weaver (31:39.287)
You
Craig (31:44.214)
He was awesome. So learned quickly that I had to like router out my boots so that I can block the lock and not worry about that. yeah, legs fall off.
Conrad Weaver (31:51.659)
Yeah. Yeah. I don't want to go into all the details of your journey since then, but you've you're back to climbing. You've been back to climbing and you've done some amazing work. You you've climbed El Cap. many times? Four times. Five times. Wow. And you also have a record on El Cap for one of the first all disabled climb.
Craig (32:03.758)
Five times. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Craig (32:12.302)
Yeah, we did. So I ended up with two. I ended up being the first amputee to climb it in under a day. So we did a route called Lurking Fear in 14 hours. And that was kind of like my first route back in El Cap. had climbed El Cap when I was able-bodied climber, much younger. And then, yeah, I got really fortunate to work with two really great friends of mine. And we did an all adaptive ascent with us and a film crew, which was kind of fun. we made a film called Gimp Monkeys, which
was just super well received and fun and just kind of showed like this process of us up there and you know, over five days living on the wall and it was just a hoot to be a part of. I love it and so yeah, been super fortunate to have some really fun, you know, opportunities.
Conrad Weaver (32:58.647)
So how do you get into your head to go back on a wall, especially like something like LCAP, which is what 3000 feet, something like that. How do you do that knowing that, okay, this is what happened to me. You know, I fell. How do you overcome that? Is there fear?
Craig (33:07.533)
Yeah.
Craig (33:16.844)
You don't, yeah, you don't overcome it. You live with it. And so I think there's a difference between people think like, he just kind of bumps all that out of his head. And that's, that couldn't be further from the truth. When I first went back to LCAP with our friend Hans, I, it was his idea to climb it in a day. I had never done that. The fastest I had done it before was six days. And a pretty normal time is between four and six on LCAP is what most people do.
Conrad Weaver (33:20.087)
Hmm.
Craig (33:46.178)
So he was like, this is doing a day. Cause that's how he always did it. He holds the record for the most one day, a sense of LCAP. And so I was like, yeah, that's a great idea. But when we came up with that plan, was literally sitting in my wheelchair doing wheelies and thinking is a horrible idea, but I didn't want to say that. And so when I got to the Valley with him and Cindy, I was in my brain, pretty sure I was either going to get hurt or killed. I didn't want either one, right. But I was like,
those are the two things I think are gonna happen. And so when we tied in and left the ground, I was like, I guess we're just gonna see what happens. And so it was kind of a surprise to me that it happened. And so there's that fear, that perceived fear of like, I'm gonna get hurt. And then there's real fear. And what you start to realize quickly is you can start to discern which is which. And climbers do that really well, but after heavy trauma, those waters get real muddy. And so you have to like figure out, am I really?
at risk right now and if I am, what is the outcome if something happens? Or am I just like nervous and scared because climbers, we all get nervous and scared. You know, if you're above your protection, you don't want to fall, you could hit something, things like that. You start taking out those really kind of weird things you're thinking like, my gosh, what if the rope cuts? The rope's not gonna cut, you're fine. But you do have to kind of start to like exist with that fear because you can't just like tamp it down.
Conrad Weaver (35:04.567)
Hmm.
Craig (35:12.974)
You have to deal with it at some point or you're going to kind of freeze. So for me, it was just like this slow progression. didn't go back to LCAP right away. I was doing like slow progressions leading up to it over years. and I didn't go out to Yosemite probably until probably five years after the accident. So I was pretty aware of what my body could and couldn't do. And so, you know, you, even to this day, there are days I feel nervous when I'm climbing and I have to just pay attention to that. So I'll climb kind of well below my limit and just till I feel better.
Once I feel comfortable again, then it's, then I'll push my limits again and see what happens. But I think we all have fear of some kind and it's just more. Do you exist with it? And if you exist with it, how do you do that? Like what works for you? And so what works for me is right back to that small chunks of things that we're doing. So one pitch at a time, you know, one move at a time some days, and then that fear doesn't get so out of control. know, you're able to kind of keep it at a manageable level and
also just to kind of expand your bubble of like what you think is acceptable. I mean, I'm sure a lot of your listeners watched Free Solo with Alex Honnold and he talks about that very thing where, no, you're not fearless, you know, it's just you do it enough where you're able to like live with it and compartmentalize it and then do what you have to do to finish the route.
Conrad Weaver (36:31.531)
Yeah. I'm sure that there's a lot of first responders who have had injuries. in fact, I know of one, that I know personally who was shot in line of duty and, getting back into that line of work was nearly impossible for this person, you know, just to, to imagine themselves going back, you know, and facing that, those kinds of things again. And same with firefighters that have perhaps been in a building that, you know, collapse or something and going back to that.
Craig (36:45.571)
Yeah.
Craig (36:53.666)
Yeah.
Conrad Weaver (37:00.351)
And doing that again has to be a different feeling.
Craig (37:03.914)
It is really different because you don't process the same anymore. the thing that was for me, and I'm sure these people would say the same thing, is you don't want to repeat what happened. That's the last thing you want to happen. When I'm climbing, I'm always thinking, I do not want to get hurt again. And when you're fresh from the accident or that trauma, whatever that trauma is,
You you think in your brain is gonna happen again. It's like how could it not happen again? Of course, it's gonna happen again and in reality Because when I think I was like, okay, it's gonna happen again Then I started to really look at that objectively and go okay It hadn't happened in 17 years or 13 or 15 years or whatever. It was when it happened Why would it happen again? It's it's now you're even more vigilant. So it's like
Conrad Weaver (37:33.303)
Hmm.
How do you tamp down those thoughts? do you deal with those?
Craig (37:57.132)
What I think it did was you realize, okay, that's absurd. It's not like somebody, it's not like every time you go climbing, you almost die. Nobody would climb, right? It's like you start to realize, okay, I'm just perceiving this differently. And what I have to do is perceive this as it is, as opposed to what I think it is. And once you can do that, then you're like, okay, this is just my brain doing cartwheels. Let's bring it back in a little bit and just do this a little at a time.
And over time, that circle gets bigger and bigger and bigger. You know, when you first started, it's maybe teeny tiny where, okay, I can climb half a pitch. I need to go, go lay down and, you know, cry myself to sleep. Well, you do that every day over five years. Guess what? That, that gets bigger and bigger and bigger because you're, desensitizing to it. And I think once you can logically desensitize yourself, then you can actually move forward. And so if you're doing that a little at a time,
the thing that's happening is you're also moving on a linear path away from the trauma. And so you're not just hanging at the trauma because I think that's what kind of paralyzes people is they stay at that moment. Like, oh my God, I got shot or the building collapsed or I fell off a rock climb. You stay right there and that's paralyzing. You will not, you will not progress as a human. To me, it's like, even if you're taking these
Micro steps away. You're still going away from the trauma and that allows for growth and so you have the post-traumatic growth then as opposed to the post-traumatic stress because you're gonna have to deal with the stress anyway But if you can have some growth within that then as a human You know that field gets bigger and bigger and bigger and then your experiences get bigger and so for me That's what I did was okay. Is it gonna happen again? Probably not, you know, could I get hit with rockfall? Absolutely
Those are objective hazards that we deal with and mitigate. like, you know, I'm going to be more vigilant, which is how we've been now in the past 25 years. You're much more vigilant. You're much more aware. And I think that as a, as a thing that I love as a human is, is growth and learning. And that's what you see is coming out of it. It's like, it is opportunity for growth, opportunity for learning. And then in my case, an opportunity to like,
Craig (40:12.078)
turn that and give back. And so I wanted to not let this accident be the defining thing in my life where people are like, he fell off a cliff and that's that. He's a climber. I wanted to be able to like, okay, I've learned a few things here and I've also applied that to my life in a positive way. What does that look like in other people's lives who are dealing with trauma and things like that? And so, how can I spin something so negative into something hopefully a bit positive on the other side?
Conrad Weaver (40:13.387)
Hmm.
Conrad Weaver (40:21.675)
Yeah.
Conrad Weaver (40:41.205)
And I know that's led you to work with a lot of veterans who have lost their limbs and other people who are, are disabled and teaching them to climb or getting them back on the horse, so to speak, to do something like this.
Craig (40:51.566)
Yeah Yeah, that's I came back from Yosemite after I did it was my second or third route with Hans and so A buddy of mine had started a nonprofit and he was living in Boulder I live in Colorado and I'm about 40 minutes from Boulder and he He was like, hey man. I'm gonna take these three guys. They're young. I think the oldest one was 22 or three and youngest was 20
He said they lost their legs in Afghanistan. He's like, I want you to come and take them climbing with me and just kind of talk about your experiences. And I was very reluctant. wasn't, it wasn't like, yay. I was like, I don't really love that, but okay. we went out and it was, it was the biggest like light bulb for me. It was like, my gosh, these guys, number one, they're hysterical. Number two, they just embraced this new them.
And more, and like, was okay with who I was at that point, like my injuries and things, but to watch them navigate their injuries, cause they were new, was like, my gosh, these guys are amazing. They were so funny. They were, they had never climbed. So they were just like super gripped climbing, but then get back to the ground, giving each other a bunch of crap and just like, they were really funny to be with. And I was like, my gosh, this is, really want to do this more. And so I kind of started volunteering with him and his organization.
And that led me to this other group that I work with now, Cindy and I work for a nonprofit called Adaptive Adventures. And they focus on getting people with physical disabilities active again through outdoor sports. it's, know, climbing is what we do. That's the only thing we do, but they do eight sports total. And you, you realize like, wow, the, the, the trauma arc and the recovery arc, it's very similar for everyone. Some of us do well, some of us don't do well, but you can really kind of see it start to lay out.
And climbing is this really amazing metaphor for like showing them what they can do, the bigger picture, how you do things in small chunks. How do you do something that most perceive as almost ridiculously hard and reckless and make it safe and fun? You can kind of teach all these things. And so they started to kind of introduce me to the bigger veteran population, which is we do about 80 % veterans and 20 % civilian. And then we kind of
Craig (43:16.066)
build them all together like we do community nights where we'll meet at a climbing gym. We do outside stuff where we take them outside and guide them outside and then teach them really just how to use climbing to have a better quality of life. So instead of being siloed off and alone and mad and suicidal, here's a group of people who understand what you're going through. We all have this trauma of some kind. And so how do we deal with it in a constructive, safe way?
How do we have like a really good quality of life again, you know, after these, these incidences and, and how, and we do it together. We discover kind of together, like, okay, you don't have to figure this all out. We're, you know, people have been through this before. Let's kind of learn from who we can learn from and, then grow from there and see, and hopefully progress them away from their trauma towards something more positive.
Conrad Weaver (43:48.695)
Mm-hmm.
Conrad Weaver (44:06.119)
How has reaching out and helping others impacted you personally?
Craig (44:11.604)
It is like, you know, it's one of the coolest things because when you start doing these kinds of things, you think like, I'm here to help them. I'm here to educate them. I'm here to blah, blah. And that's all true. You are there to do that. Right. So I have a skillset that I can, can give to other people and show them what, has been working for me and what, I think is, a good path. What you realize is you end up learning a lot about yourself through them because you can present this information to them.
they're gonna take that information, they're gonna do with it what they will, but they're gonna do it the way they wanna do it. And they're gonna use your tools, but they're gonna make it into their own little soup. And so it's kind of cool to give them the ingredients and then see how they put it together and then give it back to me because I learned something almost every time where I'm just like, that's really interesting that this is how you process, because I wouldn't have done that. I wouldn't have thought of the route this way, but to hear them say,
when I got up there, I did this, this, and this. I'm like, that would never occur to me. So it's really cool to see them navigating this space that I'm very comfortable in. They're very new in, but they're able to succeed and make progress. It's really quite powerful to see that. And even like we have, you know, older veterans who come with us who, know, Vietnam veterans, know, in their eighties where they're just like, I don't want to climb, but then they'll see it they're like, okay, I want to try a little bit and we'll rig something really fun and short.
To see the joy that comes out of that, the movement, being in the natural world, being a part of the natural world, those are really powerful. And so you see them doing that and stepping into this really quite cool community and being accepted within that community. That's the other thing that I think is really powerful for me is people accept me as a climber because I've just been in it for so long. But when they meet these new individuals, they...
they do the same with them. It's really quite cool to see. And when you are a person coming into a new community and you're greeted with this enthusiasm, that's amazing healing. That's some of the best healing power you can get. And I watch these people thrive in that environment because it's like, all of a sudden, they're not this person with trauma, they're not this veteran who XYZ happened to. Now they are just a climber. And when I teach and when we guide, that's the thing I teach them and say to them is,
Conrad Weaver (46:31.125)
Mm-hmm.
Craig (46:35.892)
I'm here to make you a climber. We will figure out the adaptive piece, but first and foremost, I want you to be a climber and then we'll just kind of add what we need to add to make you successful. But let's just do that because you've got enough labels on yourself already. Let's just give you a positive one that we can hang our hat on and see where that goes.
Conrad Weaver (46:50.487)
You know, so many first responders, when they get to the point where they either have to retire or perhaps they're injured and they have to leave the profession, you know, taking off that uniform is transformative form. It is really, really difficult because that's been their identity for X number of years. And so how did they re integrate them? How did they re identify themselves? You know, coming out of that.
Craig (47:06.626)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Craig (47:15.458)
That's, that is this, that is the whole veteran problem is they were in this thing that that was their identity. And then they're not. all of a sudden, and you're, and like a first responder, like all of a sudden there's no followup, right? Like you take it off. That's it, man. Like sort it out. And so some, you know, a lot of these individuals who work with her, you know, in their thirties and forties, so they're young people who have a lot of life left and
Conrad Weaver (47:20.172)
Mm-hmm.
Conrad Weaver (47:24.087)
Right.
Craig (47:43.042)
when you don't have that follow-up and you don't have that structure anymore, like you said, who am I, what do I do? And we just wanna give one outlet, like, hey, you can be a climber, you can be out in the world doing this thing. Climbing may not be for them, they can do other things, but it is really weird when your identity shifts and changes because some people just do not handle that well and it can be a really hard thing to do.
Conrad Weaver (48:08.903)
All right, Stella. So what do you do on the daily basis? Because I know that you deal with pain. What do you do on the daily to keep your mind in the right space, in the right place, so that you can still be productive in the work that you do?
Craig (48:12.227)
Thank you.
Craig (48:29.356)
I think for me it's movement. The more sedentary I am, the worse I feel. know, things just so many broken bones and joints and hardware and all that good stuff. So that's my first course of action is that I still have to take meds every day just to kind of help me stay even. If I don't take them, I probably not going to do that much. It's just kind of hurts too much. the medications allow me to take the edges off of things. And so, you know, the pain is still there, but it's kind of
I always equate it to a barking dog. The dog goes behind you and you, it's barking, but it's behind you. It's not like right here chewing on your face anymore, it's behind you. And so yes, the dog is barking, but I'm gonna move forward. So the medications help me, movement helps me. And I think also just kind of, how would I say it? Like being honest with myself, like it's okay that I don't feel good today. So if it's raining and damp, feel terrible because of the.
the pressure changes, it's okay. You I don't have to go just beat myself into the ground, trying to climb something. Maybe that's a rest day. Maybe I'll just go do something different. Maybe I'll just go for a walk with the dogs and Cindy, or maybe I'll just not do anything, you know, just return emails, right? I think just being honest with yourself and realizing some days are good, some days aren't good. And so when they're good, let's capitalize and go. But you know, when they're bad, it's okay. Like it's not every day.
Realizing like that's a fluid situation. It's it's that that being Bad one day doesn't mean you're to be bad every day You know, it's just part of the the game of like we have highs and lows and so you have to ride those and so just Understanding some are good. Some are bad when it's good. Let's go when it's bad Let's just take it easy and see Wait till it gets good again, which is usually the next day. So
Conrad Weaver (50:09.26)
Mm-hmm.
Conrad Weaver (50:19.563)
Yeah. Yeah. I've often said, you know, we don't learn much on the easy days.
Craig (50:24.696)
Yeah, exactly. You know, nobody does anything great when, you know, when it's all hunky dory, right? You're just kind of then existing. But when it's bad, you know, that's when you learn something. And I think being open to that and being willing to navigate that on your own and with your, you know, circle of influence in your family and friends, I think, you know, that's important. think we as humans, want to do well and, you know,
thrive and all that good stuff, in reality, it's not gonna happen every day, especially after heavy trauma. You gotta just pick and choose your battles, I guess.
Conrad Weaver (51:02.785)
So it's so questions that kind of floated through my head. Have you gone back and climbed that route again?
Craig (51:08.212)
No, oddly enough, went on the fifth anniversary. You're not allowed to have a mountain bike in Rocky Mountain National Park. So I'm about to out myself, but I went, I just wanted to go see the climb. You know, I hadn't been back there. And so I rode back in on a mountain bike park, you know, stashed my bike in the trees and hiked up the talus to the cliff base by myself. I was just like, got to the base, looked around, the tree was still there. And I looked up and, know, I was just kind of.
Conrad Weaver (51:14.998)
Yeah.
Craig (51:35.342)
I thought it was going to be this amazing cathartic moment. And me, I was just like, you know what? I'm out here in the middle of nowhere. This is a big cliff. It doesn't care about me. It doesn't hate me. It doesn't like me. It's indifferent. The tree doesn't care. And so I took a little piece of the tree and a little piece of the rock from the ground, put it in my pocket, walked back down to my bike, got on, had a pack on. I rode 20 feet. There was a water gully from the rain. Hit that with my front tire.
flipped over the handlebars and I was like, man, I need to just leave and not come back here. Yeah, place is trying to kill me. So that's the last time I've been back to Sundance and I don't really feel the need to go climb the route. There's other things I would like to do up there, but not, I don't need to go do white man again.
Conrad Weaver (52:05.271)
no.
Stay away from this place.
Conrad Weaver (52:22.721)
Yeah. Yeah. So what would you say to, well, let me ask you this first. have you been in touch with any of the first responders who were on the scene that day?
Craig (52:31.566)
Hmm. I have, I have talked to Eric Gabriel, who was the climbing ranger for the park and he was awesome. He's like, dude, he's like, I've seen a lot of accidents and he's like, you you got slammed and he's like, there was no way we thought you were living. He's like, you were so chewed up and, but he's like, I'm real obviously happy that you're here. I ended up doing like, I guess it was like a write-up for them, just like explaining how the accident happened because they just like to have that to train for training purposes.
and then I've just like, you know, there was another, I forgot his name, the, one of the first guys that arrived from the park with after Eric got there. he was kind of in charge of the litter team. ran into that guy as well. And, you know, he and I kind of caught up a little bit and it's cool to hear like, yeah, man, when you were on the litter, we were all just like, this ain't happening. Like this is not happening. And then to see them, you know, in the park climbing, it's like, they're like, it's like a mind.
mess with them. So they're just really supportive and obviously fun to talk to because they got to see me at my worst and then see me again where I'm kind of recovered and doing my thing. So it is cool to see them. That's been years now. I haven't seen anyone. I don't even, I would love to, there was this one nurse that was always in the ICU. I would love to know who that person was. I have no idea who it is, but she was rad. Like she was just super honest and open when I was in there in that fog of medications and pain.
But yeah, it's kind of fun to kind of check back in with those guys.
Conrad Weaver (54:03.361)
So a big existential question for you. We wrap it up here. Why did you live?
Craig (54:05.44)
Mmm.
man, I would like to think the reason is because I had more to do. I had things that were gonna ripple out from my accident. And so I think it was just me understanding like, okay, there's more to do here. I think that's when people get suicidal. I talked to a lot of people after trauma and they're not always courting it, but like thinking about it.
myself included, you know, you think this would just be a lot easier if I wasn't here. I think once you get past that and you realize, okay, I'm still here, then you have to ask why, you know, why did I live and others don't, why am I able to climb when others can't? I think you start to like understand, okay, what is it that I'm supposed to be doing? And that kind of boiled over, you know, I was working at a job like, you know, as you know, we're at a company for a long time and then got laid off.
was terrified of that. And I think after the accident, taught me, okay, this is part of this path that so like, what does that look like? And you don't know what it is. So I think like, when you start getting these suicidal thoughts, when you start getting these isolation thoughts, it's because you lose sight of like, there's more to do, you don't see it, you don't you can't see an out. And for me, I always kind of saw it out, like, okay, I have an amazing support system, which not everyone is lucky to have, I had an amazing medical team.
And those things were all pushing me forward. And I think as long as you're moving forward and you're not stopped, you can actually see a way out. once you, not everyone embraces that obviously, they know some people, even though they see it, they don't want to take it. For me, I just thought, okay, there's more to do. What does that look like? If you had asked me 15 years ago, this is what I would be doing. I would not seen it, but I think being open and being open to like the plan of like,
Craig (56:04.61)
what is happening in the universe around you to propel you forward. What does that look like? And being open to that. then figuring out what's left. Where am I supposed to put my energy now? And I think for me, was just like, doors were opened when I started to just be open to the door opening. Instead of just hammering, this is what I know, gotta redo that stuff that I used to do. I think I was more open to, okay, this is horrible.
Now I'm recovering, what does that look like and how do I apply that in my life going forward? And just being open to that.
Conrad Weaver (56:40.417)
So final question, what's one climb you wanna do that you haven't done yet?
Craig (56:45.39)
so Cindy and I were just talking about this. We're going to go to Sardinia in September for my birthday. And there's this climbs over there on the seaside, like right next to the ocean on these beautiful cobalt water that just looked so amazing to me. So I want to go and just explore. I love that when I haven't been someplace and going with Cindy, who is my best friend and able to enjoy these spaces where
you know, you're out there and you don't see people and you're just kind of like exploring this vertical environment. So I'm very excited to go there. Really cool looking mountains.
Conrad Weaver (57:19.787)
have to, I'm always amazed at what you do and because you and I are the same age and, it's, you know, to see what you have done coming through that and knowing what I deal with without an accident like that, you know, it just, it's inspiring. And so that's why I wanted to have you on the show to inspire others to keep going, to push through and to, to, you know, find their purpose and find their why.
Craig (57:23.848)
thank you. Thank you.
Craig (57:33.651)
Ha, dude, no, whatever. You're, nah, you're amazing. You're amazing.
No, thank you. Thank you.
Craig (57:49.016)
Yeah, it's huge.
Conrad Weaver (57:50.583)
So, yeah, so thank you for being that inspiration for me and for the people who watch and listen.
Craig (57:53.952)
No, I appreciate it. No, I appreciate it so much, man. Thanks for having me.
Conrad Weaver (57:58.369)
So how can people, if they want to reach out to you, if you want to speak or I guess you speak for organizations, how can people reach out to you?
Craig (58:03.342)
Yep. Best place is just on my website. So that's craigdemartino.com and Demartino is D-E-M-A-R-T-I-N-O. They can email me craigdemartino.com. They can just DM me on Instagram, which is at Craig Dem, C-R-A-I-G-D-E-M. And yeah, and then they'll be able to talk and we can figure out what they need and how we can help.
Conrad Weaver (58:32.415)
Awesome. Craig, thank you for being on the show.
Craig (58:34.712)
Dude, thank you so much. Appreciate it.
Conrad Weaver (58:37.911)
Alright, we'll hit the stop button and let this finish uploading.
Craig (58:40.728)
Kaboom.