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Most of the EV charging conversation has focused on getting stations deployed, but the real opportunity starts after the install, because once a site is live, the question shifts from is it built to is it performing?
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And for a lot of operators, that's where the gap shows up.
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In this episode, I sit down with Monica Davis from INF Associates to talk about how to close that gap.
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We break down how to optimize charging behavior, capture available incentives, and turn existing infrastructure into a more predictable, higher performing asset.
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If you already have chargers in the ground or you're planning to deploy, this conversation will help you get more out of every site.
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Let's get into it.
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How are you doing?
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I'm doing great, Jason, and thank you so much for having me.
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Uh excited.
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I'm excited to be here.
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I'm glad that you you were able to get some time to come on the show and uh look forward to sharing your background with us and and uh talking to us about what INF Associates is doing in the EV space.
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You guys are doing some important work over there, and I think it's important that we highlight that important work.
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So I'm glad that you had some time to come on.
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I'd like to start off our conversation today with you just walking us through your professional path, kind of the inflection points that led you to INF.
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And then at the same time, I'd like for you to share the INF story.
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Where does INF Associates sit in the EV value chain?
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Obviously, probably doing other things outside of e-mobility, but for the show and for the audience, just uh, you know, give us your professional background and then talk to us about who INF Associates is.
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Okay, so I'd be happy to.
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Um, path to INF has been quite varied and interesting.
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I will bore people of the uh gory details, but I started off actually in healthcare.
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I mean, board was a board of certified anesthesiologists.
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So I worked in medicine for a while and then decided that that was not my ministry.
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I did enjoy it to a certain point, but felt like my life needed to take another direction.
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I went into uh various other industries, most like mostly performing arts, and then sort of found my way into the sales marketing arena and felt that my personality and actually my experience with medicine was very helpful there.
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Um, as far as INF was concerned, I was asked to join by a colleague I had worked with at a previous company about three years ago.
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I had no background in EV charging.
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I live in Texas, if that tells you anything.
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And we are the oil and gas capital.
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So it was quite a learning curve, but it's been a great ride so far for me.
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And I'm I'm happy to be here.
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And now my focus has shifted more on customer support and helping them navigate through the phase two portion of EV station management.
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Right.
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Um, I was gonna go into INF.
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I guess they want me to mention them as well.
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I my company INF Associates, it was founded in 2011 by our president Charles Day Coteaux, uh, originally started off with LED lighting installations, and we've evolved over the years into uh a more turnkey energy solutions provider.
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Starting around uh 2016, we got into the EV space with uh building uh infrastructure and installations in the New York area and around the Northeast.
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At that time, there were lots of incentives to install these stations and increase EV adoption.
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So it was a very fortuitous time for the company.
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And we had got a lot of installations done.
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We have over 10,000 across the country.
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And from that from that point, we've gone into fleet electrification planning, engineering design, incentive management, and other aspects of building and transportation decarbonation.
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And is INF's role in the space as an operator as well, or is just the folks helping to get the design, the pre-construction design, deployment, install, and then assisting in management, or is it all of the above?
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What does that look like?
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It is all of the above.
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We're INF itself is not directly involved as an owner operator, but we are certainly a resource for those site owners once the installation has occurred.
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Make sure that they understand how to maximize that, their stations and their return on investment so that they are happy with the decisions they've made for sustainability.
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Yeah.
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So from that standpoint, INF certainly has uh an interesting point of of reference for the space, at least from this perspective of what you're how you're helping the operators deploy and then of course maintain.
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And so we know, you know, in our in our industry, there's a lot of activity in EV charging.
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Not all of it always translates to the outcomes that we want.
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From your vantage point, what signals are mattering the most versus where the industry might be over-indexing on?
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And you can answer that as broadly as you want.
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It's it's kind of a broader industry question, but I'm just curious from your perspective what that looks like.
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Okay.
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Well, I'm certain.
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Happy to give it.
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As a relative newbie to this space, what I noticed when I first joined was a lot of emphasis on let's get the stations built so we can increase EV adoption, get things into the ground, help out where we can to get this uh moving in the right direction.
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But I don't know if because it was such a new idea and a new industry, how much thought was given to the after effects of that, how these stations will be maintained, uh the best way to optimize them.
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And what has lately been more and more of a concern is the effect on the grid and the stress.
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So I think as the industry has matured, they are less focused on so much getting stations in the ground and more managing those stations and making sure that the the grid can can support additional use in the future.
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Yeah, that's uh that's that's good feedback.
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And I I agree it's um in fact we had an earlier conversation just this week on an episode about deploying where it's convenient or maybe the easiest versus deploying where it really will make sense and operationally have the have the outcome and the ROI that people hope for.
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I'd say there's some core misunderstandings, at least maybe for the outsider that's looking into the space or someone that's you know running a different type of business but wants to maybe give EV charging, you know, the EV charging business a run, a run at that.
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And you know, if if I'm a site host and I'm thinking, you know what, there's a quick buck to be made in EV charging because you know people need to charge their EV, so I'm just gonna make money when people pull up and and they connect.
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What I'm hearing you say is it's it's a little bit more complex than that.
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And so there's value tied to the charging side, obviously, but when the charging is happening, how the charging is happening, and the other pieces around that, where does INF help operators or prospective operators evaluate uh a site's viability or or maybe even hands the performance of the site that's already deployed?
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Well, our uh project development team and engineering design team certainly helps with determining the right location and helping them to decide that.
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I usually come in after that has been established and helping them maximize the stations that are there.
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Because there are a lot of things that happen, even if you are in the right location and you have the right amount of traffic, there's things to consider as far as time of use for the stations, how much that's going to affect your electricity bill.
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The vast majority of complaints I get, not complaints, but concerns I get from customers, is that I have this machine.
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Yes, I'm making money, but my electricity bill is such is like this.
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And I wasn't expecting that.
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And so where we come in, as particularly my department, is looking at that, looking at the way that the stations are being used and making adjustments when necessary.
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It is sometimes even with the fee they're charging, it may not be adequate or it may not be competing successfully with other chargers in the area.
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And so, unlike something more mature, like say the gas industry, where all the gas stations have a certain amount of privacy that they have to stick to and they adjust it for their area and their um in their neighborhood.
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That's sort of where the EV stations are at this point, trying to make those fine adjustments to maximize what they can do.
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And in addition to that, we we try to help them find other ways of really just optimizing those stations with any programs that may be available to help them manage those more effectively.
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Yeah, there's there's certainly uh a need to be effective, both in pricing, of course, you know, depends on the region.
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There are some CPEOs that, you know, if they were really going to even break even, much less make a profit, their KW price would be a bit out there.
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And of course, there's so many things tied to the reasons and whys behind behind that.
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That there's some regional aspects to that beyond just utilization, uh, the cost to deploy, et cetera.
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So I think that's that's a valuable um, you know, valuable offering to to the space.
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If INF is looking to see where value is quietly leaking out at a site, maybe they're underpriced on pricing, or maybe they're overpriced on pricing, and people aren't coming to the site and helping to understand where that comes together.
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I think that's uh that's invaluable.
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Um you mentioned um incentives or and and we've kind of talked around that a little bit.
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Uh a lot of operators are, of course, chasing rebates and incentives up front to help offset that that capex.
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If if my understanding of the model that you bring uh to the space and where you're where you're leading your clients is that it it's about focusing on ongoing performance.
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Where do operators sometimes get this part wrong?
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And you could answer that from any perspective, whether the you know the environment of the vertical is multifamily or it's retail-facing site, whatever makes sense for you to answer it.
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But uh, where do operators get get this wrong and maybe leave money on the table without realizing it?
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It's not so much that they get something wrong as they're they don't maybe have all the information they need to make an educated decision.
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There's a lot of factors that go into uh these stations and keeping them operational and keeping them uh productive and profitable, or at least establishing revenue.
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A lot of station owners are unaware that they are rebates beyond just infrastructure and installation, such as what we call charge uh commercial load management, which means that some utilities, some like ConEd, will actually give you money back or rebate to limit your charging during certain peak windows of utilization.
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And that may vary from region to region.
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And so in those instances, we certainly will reach out to those customers and let them know, you know, there's ways you can help mitigate some of the expense with running these stations if the issue is a high bill or anything like that.
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So you're not, you know, charging your customers something, it may not be competitive.
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And there's other programs such as demand response, which, you know, also gives you a certain break on your on your stations, like while you're ramping up, they lower your demand charges until you come up to 100% or close to that.
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And these are all things that INF looks into for the customer and can set them up with so they can have every tool available to them to succeed and make these stations uh a valuable ass asset to them.
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Yeah.
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So those types of values that you're creating, that's not only for, you know, prospective operators, those looking at the site, a site's viability, that's for existing operators today.
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And maybe they've got sites and they're not aware of like the rebate that you just mentioned.
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Oh, I think you said it's caught in.
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They may not know that that's out there.
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And so your resource to them to be able to go and and help broker that for them.
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What is that what does that rebate actually a rebate like that actually look like to the in terms of of return to the operator?
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Is that like a credit towards utility or is it is it uh credit from the utility to them, or what does that rebate look like?
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Well, the ones we're working with in New York is the check directly to the customer.
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So it's um the charge and management programs, basically they charge you, they will pay you a set fee for charging off peak, which is usually, I'll just give an example, three cents per kilowatt hour.
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And then they will also re reimburse you two up to ten dollars per kilowatt for any any power that you avoid during these peak windows.
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So for instance, if you're able to, you know, if your stations can put out a hundred kilowatts during a two to six window, but it's only putting out 10, where you're getting 90, you're getting to pay it for those 90 kilowatts that you're not using during that time.
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Wow.
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And that comes back in a form of protection.
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Wow.
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That's uh that's some real value.
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That's some real value because a lot of times people think about rebates in terms of of deployment, not in terms of operation.
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And so that's some real value.
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Well, I hope you get some calls around that for those that are listening and want to take advantage of that.
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I hope you get some calls around that.
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That's great.
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I hope so too.
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I want to help them out.
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You know, well, that's some real value uh because operational is expenses is what is of course driving the ROI.
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And so to be able to offset that with a with a real check, that's that's that's cool.
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You know, a lot of times utilities are they are cited as as kind of the bottleneck in deployment.
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And you know, maybe they're they have a there's a layer of constraint to them, but how much, and this is just for an education note to the to those that are listening, how much of a site's performance is actually dictated by a utility program that operators maybe not understanding, like to your point about operating during a certain time, or maybe even what is it, um, open ADR where where a utility can can you know remote into a unit and throttle back its energy.
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Comments around that.
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Well, the utilities themselves are probably not so much directly involved.
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What they do is they ask uh the customers or site owners to uh look for ways to you know decrease their usage during utilization times.
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The operation of the site is is directly up to the site owners.
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Usually utilities are not involved in that.
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However, there are certain rebates and incentives that require a certain amount of uh reporting, data reporting, that some site owners may not be aware of or may not know you know the extent of what they need to do.
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And that can that can actually interfere with if they receive rebates for say installation, they're at risk for losing some of those.
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So it is uh very important that they understand when they do receive rebates and uh incentives from utilities, there is a certain amount of oversight to make sure that they are utilized correctly.
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Also, for there is a certain amount of utilization that needs to be shown in general.
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So anytime that there's stations that are offline or under repair, it's it's it can be a little bit challenging to deal with the utilities and keeping those machines online so that they're not sending you constant notices about your utilization patterns.
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Yeah.
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You know, you you mentioned data, and that actually is a good segue into a question I wanted to ask you about your model and and as it relates to data.
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You know, you you had a good call out there around data being available or as a or needing to be available to the utility as a requirement for that for that funding.
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Does INF help manage the that data for the operator?
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Is that a is that a service you guys as far as maintaining and operating that data, or is that something they've got to be able to make available to the utility directly, or do you do you help them maintain those records?
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We do a bit of both.
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Okay.
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For my part of the program with the commercial load management, we do help them with the data.
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We uh work with the NSPs and network service providers to make sure they are sending the required data to the utilities because they have certain requirements.
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I'm not a data person.
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I'm not gonna be able to send you the right one.
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But I can certainly act as a go-between to make sure that the data is coming from the software provider to the utility, that they have it correctly, that it's timely.
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And um in addition, additional later that I provide is I can analyze to data and let the customers know, okay, I noticed that you're only charging, you know, you know, I'll peak 60% of the time.
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And you could get more money back from this rebate if you switch to doing it more like 90% of the time.
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And so that's something that that's very unique to what we provide.
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The utilities will just look at the data and cut them a check.
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They're not going to try to maximize or optimize anything, they don't have the bandwidth.
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That's just right.
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Same thing with the NSPs, they're just sending a bunch of data on and moving on to the next thing.
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They're there to help the customer navigate how to get into their dashboard, how to, you know, look for, you know, chart change their pricing fees on their station.
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So this is something that usually gets off to the wayside, gets put off to the wayside.
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Also, what I've noticed across multiple sectors is most people that are put in charge of the machines on site know nothing about them.
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And they most of them weren't even involved in the decision to put them on site.
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And yet they've been given this responsibility.
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So it is very helpful to have someone step in and walk them through it, let them know what's expected, what we can do, and what we need permission to do.
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And we offer that to help deal with the data collection.
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Yeah, um, I can just imagine that there's been some probably sites that have been active that you've that you know you've walked into and and have tried to help, you know, refine their charging program, maximize their their ROI by leveraging rebates or other incentives that are out there.
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And the model certainly is going to require some glean data points and some historical reference.
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And so I'm just curious, how often do you do you walk into, you know, a an organization where maybe foundationally the data's not even there, it's not been tracked, or or maybe the hardware, maybe the hardware wasn't capable.
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Maybe it was uh, you know, an unintuitive unit or a a dumb unit, as we would refer to, um, you know, dumb in the sense that it's not connected.
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And so you don't really have that baseline.
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That's probably they're probably precluded based on certain types of hardware, I imagine, um, for these programs.
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I would think.
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Yes.
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Maybe there's Yes, there is.
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There's certain um your uh software mostly has to be able to manage to load and and make adjustments as needed.
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I have not yet come across sites that had such that had older software that wasn't capable of doing that.
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When we have, we've been able to just go in and have them upgrade to something because there are certain requirements for these rebates as to what the software needs to be able to do.
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And for in some some areas, the utility will actually pay for the software through a through a technical rebate program.
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So they'll pay for sometimes up to 90 to 100% of the software costs for five years.
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So if we go into a site in a s in that particular utility area and they have older software, they can't do charge management, we can simply have them go to an upgraded version that's accepted by the utility and they will pay for it.
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We'll just give them the specs, and if it's acceptable, they'll pay for it and cover it.
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So we find all kinds of ways to to deal with that.
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Yeah, so not only probably uh uh you know a software migration, whether it's within the same platform or to a competing platform that can provide what's needed to be compliant with the program, probably that extend I would imagine that would extend to the hardware as well, because there's probably some dated hardware that maybe is not operating at the spec that the you know the program dictates.
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So I would assume that maybe there's even you know some incentive there to to help upgrade the hardware too, maybe.
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I don't know.
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There's all types of technical incentives of for battery storage, you know, any sort of rib support, any kind of technology that will su that will support.
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Every utility has a different slightly different take and what they're offering.
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And I'll be honest with you, I'm not horribly technically adept.
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So anything else out of the software, I would be I can certainly speak for that and some of the others.
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I know, I know they're available, in other words, but I couldn't tell you exactly what's covered under most of these projects.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, no, no worries.
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Uh uh tot totally totally fine there.
00:20:36.880 --> 00:20:45.119
You know, from the from uh the operator's perspective, I assume many think that they can just and and this can vary from sector to sector.
00:20:45.279 --> 00:20:55.920
Because like I say, I imagine you're working with clients and and connecting them with programs in various different verticals, like I said, multifamily fleet, you know, whatever, whatever the site looks like.
00:20:56.000 --> 00:21:03.519
And so I'm sure maybe outside of a fleet context, operators think that they can probably influence the charging behavior at a site once it's active.
00:21:03.680 --> 00:21:05.359
They can control access, et cetera.
00:21:05.440 --> 00:21:11.599
But do you see a gap between what they think they can control versus what is actually controllable at the site level?
00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:18.640
And again, that's probably gonna have a different answer versus we're talking fleet or multifamily or any other sector.
00:21:18.720 --> 00:21:19.039
I don't know.
00:21:19.359 --> 00:21:19.680
Absolutely.
00:21:19.839 --> 00:21:21.039
And you you are right.
00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:25.680
There's certainly a difference between, say, a private or a public access site.
00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:30.319
You mostly I will st we'll just give an example for multifamily.
00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:36.960
That that type of site most likely does have a little bit more influence on driver behavior because of the restricted access.
00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:46.079
They may not be able to use the stations unless they have an access code or or they're they've been put into the system as a as a possible driver.
00:21:46.240 --> 00:21:59.119
Um, for public chargers, it's a little bit more like the Wild, Wild West to uh just sort of hope that um, you know, you can set the rules and guidelines in place and do your best to make sure that the chargers remain available to everyone.
00:21:59.200 --> 00:21:59.759
That's the big thing.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:04.799
Making sure the charges are remain available and open to the drivers who need them.
00:22:05.279 --> 00:22:07.440
And there's various ways of doing that.
00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:20.240
Instituting what we call idle fees for people who park and bark and or just making sure or just making sure that the customer, you know, or the or the driver knows the guidelines running use of that charging station.
00:22:20.319 --> 00:22:29.039
And we do help, we help the um the site owners to navigate through that depending on what issues they're having or what they anticipate having and possible solutions to that.
00:22:29.200 --> 00:22:35.279
So there's there's a certain amount of control, but again, people will do what they want to do as far as drivers.
00:22:35.519 --> 00:22:37.680
And that's that's always going to be a possibility.
00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:38.319
Yeah.
00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:47.759
Well, I wanted um I wanted to ask you about um a little bit more on the um utilities and where they're you know where they're incentivizing installation.
00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:54.880
Are they, you know, is there a slowing or throttling back of of incentivizing the installation?
00:22:55.200 --> 00:23:00.480
Is there, you know, is there more of a focus on decreasing you know the stress on the grid?
00:23:00.640 --> 00:23:02.480
What what during peak hours?
00:23:02.559 --> 00:23:09.200
I know you you alluded to that about the the time of use, but how how does that change operators define the value of a site?
00:23:09.359 --> 00:23:14.960
Because I'm sure they're trying to they're trying to lock in on where you know what site is viable versus one that's not.
00:23:15.200 --> 00:23:15.359
Okay.
00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:24.319
Well, I can certainly speak for New York because we've had some recent changes with the utilities as far as funding for installation infrastructure.
00:23:24.640 --> 00:23:34.640
As the uh as the industry has matured, uh, they've noticed that there may have been some things that they didn't consider when they initially put out all the rebates and incentives.
00:23:34.720 --> 00:23:42.960
And they're just probably taking a little bit of a step back to see where the funds are best could best be utilized as far as new installations and incentives.
00:23:43.119 --> 00:23:46.160
So there might be a little bit of pullback on that for the time being.
00:23:46.319 --> 00:23:58.720
It may not be forever, but just simply for right now, which may translate to maybe not as many installations going on right now if they are dependent on incentives because they are on a bit of a hold right now.
00:23:58.880 --> 00:24:06.799
However, what is available are the incentives for load managing and optimizing the stations that you have and decreasing that stress on the grid right now.
00:24:06.960 --> 00:24:15.839
And that has been a main focus for for the utilities that we've seen while we're waiting to see how they're gonna re uh readjust the the installation portion.
00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:37.359
So what we can do is while a site owner might be thinking of expanding, we can in the meantime show them how if they do choose to expand with or without these incentives, they can still get a, they can still get a return on their NOI with these uh they can still increase their NOI with these stations and help offset some of the costs over the long term.
00:24:37.519 --> 00:24:44.720
So that's what we're sort of focusing on as far as uh helping them to sort of navigate these changes in the industry as we're seeing them.
00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:52.640
And and if you just just curious, what what do you think the recalibration at the utility from from focus on that is driven by?
00:24:52.799 --> 00:24:57.279
Is it just been driven by sites that maybe weren't as successful and capital was deployed there?
00:24:57.359 --> 00:25:01.759
Or what what do you think is what do you think is driving that that pullback or maybe that pause?
00:25:01.920 --> 00:25:02.960
I don't know if it's a pullback.
00:25:03.519 --> 00:25:07.039
Well, it's more about it's more of a pause than a pullback at this point.
00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:13.519
I think that they were hoping to get more information as far as data for how sites were being utilized.
00:25:13.599 --> 00:25:17.920
And a lot of I can I can pretty much tell you that they were lacking in some of that.
00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:28.640
They there was a lot of sites that were installed, and a lot of utilities have a five-year mandatory data reporting that may or may not have been met by certain sites and certain installers.
00:25:28.880 --> 00:25:37.519
So until they get to data that installing these stations in certain areas is actually a useful, it's it's a good use of there of the funds.
00:25:37.680 --> 00:25:45.759
They're just kind of taking a look and seeing where it's best to deploy this and where the data supports that moving forward, which is totally understandable.
00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:52.400
Um, in the meantime, like I said before, there's still they still have these other programs open for existing stations.
00:25:52.559 --> 00:25:55.440
And there's still time to go in and and start reporting.
00:25:55.519 --> 00:26:05.200
There's no, you know, if you do have the data, we can go in and to these comp to these sites and say, listen, we understand that you need three years' worth of data report it to the utility.
00:26:05.279 --> 00:26:10.880
We can help you turn that in so that you're in compliance with that with that aspect of the uh rebate.
00:26:11.039 --> 00:26:13.200
So I think that the pause will be temporary.
00:26:13.279 --> 00:26:19.759
I don't know, but it's just going to be for the time being, just sort of working around it and getting reset and allowing them to restructure.
00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:20.079
Yeah.
00:26:20.319 --> 00:26:35.440
If uh if a mid-tier operator, you know, a regional CPO just invited you kind of behind the curtain, they wanted you to evaluate their charging portfolio today because maybe they think it's it's performing well, or maybe they're they're thinking that they're leaving money on the table.
00:26:35.599 --> 00:26:41.200
What it's maybe one of the first things that you would start to check to see if they're if things are being overlooked?
00:26:41.599 --> 00:26:48.480
Well, first and foremost, I would just ask them to define what they feel performing well means across their portfolio.
00:26:48.640 --> 00:26:48.799
Okay.
00:26:49.359 --> 00:26:53.119
And what their ultimate goals would be for the stations.
00:26:53.279 --> 00:27:20.000
Once I get that, I can sort of put together, I can take a look across their portfolio at their sites, what's being utilized, how often, what utilities and districts they're in some to see if there's any incentives that may be available that they weren't aware of, or just basically fine-tuning what they have as far as operating it, you know, making sure that they have their sites, their uptime is is staying above 90%, that they don't have machines offline for long periods of time.
00:27:20.240 --> 00:27:24.720
That I can be as granular as making sure that the machines are visible in certain sites.
00:27:24.880 --> 00:27:30.480
I I had one site where the uh machine was blocked by a tenant storage and nobody knew it was there.
00:27:30.799 --> 00:27:36.480
There's yes, there's various ways to um there's always ways to increase performance.
00:27:36.559 --> 00:27:41.680
I don't think I've ever been to a site where there was nothing we could do, um, especially with a portfolio.
00:27:41.839 --> 00:27:46.160
There might have been one site that was very overperforming and one that was doing wasn't doing so well.
00:27:46.319 --> 00:27:50.000
And so we want to look at the one that's not doing so well and see what we can do to help it out.
00:27:50.160 --> 00:27:51.440
So that's basically what I look at.
00:27:51.519 --> 00:27:54.400
I look at it holistically first and then kind of get into the details.
00:27:54.640 --> 00:27:57.519
And see and just work with them on what their goals are.
00:27:57.680 --> 00:27:58.720
So we're in alignment.
00:27:59.119 --> 00:28:05.519
Monica, I appreciate you you coming on field frequency and sharing these insights and what you know programs INF is doing.
00:28:05.839 --> 00:28:06.559
It's critical.
00:28:06.640 --> 00:28:22.079
And I I hope that there's some operators that are listening that um, you know, will be willing to reach out and and see what INF can do for them or what, you know, maybe they're in the the northeast or in an area that that you guys are, you know, really working in, understanding the programs and the utility uh offerings that are available.
00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:26.079
So um to that end, Monica, how how could the audience connect with you?
00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:30.960
What's the best way to reach out, reach out to you, follow what you're doing and what INF is doing?
00:28:31.039 --> 00:28:32.480
What's the best way to connect with you guys?
00:28:32.799 --> 00:28:34.079
Well, we have several ways.
00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:39.759
You could um go to our website, www.infassociates.com.
00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:41.599
You could also visit us on LinkedIn.
00:28:41.759 --> 00:28:51.359
We have a pretty active LinkedIn profile for INF Associates, or you can simply reach out directly to our email, which is solutions at INFAssociates.com.
00:28:51.440 --> 00:28:54.000
That is monitored by myself and my associate.
00:28:54.160 --> 00:29:03.119
And we're happy to put you in touch with a consultant if it's somebody outside of myself to make sure you receive the support and answers to the questions that you have.
00:29:03.519 --> 00:29:05.599
Monica, thank you for coming on Field Frequency.
00:29:05.680 --> 00:29:07.119
It's been a pleasure chatting with you today.
00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:08.240
Thank you so much, Jason.
00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:09.440
I appreciate you having me.
00:29:09.680 --> 00:29:12.880
This episode was produced and edited by the team at Atozi.
00:29:13.119 --> 00:29:18.240
To find out more, visit autosi.co a-ut o z y dot co.
00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:11.839
Most of the EV charging conversation has focused on getting stations deployed, but the real opportunity starts after the install, because once a site is live, the question shifts from is it built to is it performing?
00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:14.560
And for a lot of operators, that's where the gap shows up.
00:00:14.800 --> 00:00:20.079
In this episode, I sit down with Monica Davis from INF Associates to talk about how to close that gap.
00:00:20.239 --> 00:00:28.719
We break down how to optimize charging behavior, capture available incentives, and turn existing infrastructure into a more predictable, higher performing asset.
00:00:28.879 --> 00:00:35.039
If you already have chargers in the ground or you're planning to deploy, this conversation will help you get more out of every site.
00:00:35.200 --> 00:00:36.479
Let's get into it.
00:01:06.480 --> 00:01:06.959
How are you doing?
00:01:07.280 --> 00:01:09.840
I'm doing great, Jason, and thank you so much for having me.
00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:10.799
Uh excited.
00:01:11.040 --> 00:01:12.400
I'm excited to be here.
00:01:12.959 --> 00:01:23.760
I'm glad that you you were able to get some time to come on the show and uh look forward to sharing your background with us and and uh talking to us about what INF Associates is doing in the EV space.
00:01:23.920 --> 00:01:28.560
You guys are doing some important work over there, and I think it's important that we highlight that important work.
00:01:28.640 --> 00:01:30.400
So I'm glad that you had some time to come on.
00:01:30.640 --> 00:01:37.760
I'd like to start off our conversation today with you just walking us through your professional path, kind of the inflection points that led you to INF.
00:01:37.840 --> 00:01:41.120
And then at the same time, I'd like for you to share the INF story.
00:01:41.280 --> 00:01:44.560
Where does INF Associates sit in the EV value chain?
00:01:44.719 --> 00:01:54.400
Obviously, probably doing other things outside of e-mobility, but for the show and for the audience, just uh, you know, give us your professional background and then talk to us about who INF Associates is.
00:01:54.640 --> 00:01:56.000
Okay, so I'd be happy to.
00:01:56.159 --> 00:01:59.519
Um, path to INF has been quite varied and interesting.
00:01:59.680 --> 00:02:04.879
I will bore people of the uh gory details, but I started off actually in healthcare.
00:02:04.959 --> 00:02:07.920
I mean, board was a board of certified anesthesiologists.
00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:14.080
So I worked in medicine for a while and then decided that that was not my ministry.
00:02:14.240 --> 00:02:18.879
I did enjoy it to a certain point, but felt like my life needed to take another direction.
00:02:19.199 --> 00:02:34.800
I went into uh various other industries, most like mostly performing arts, and then sort of found my way into the sales marketing arena and felt that my personality and actually my experience with medicine was very helpful there.
00:02:34.960 --> 00:02:43.280
Um, as far as INF was concerned, I was asked to join by a colleague I had worked with at a previous company about three years ago.
00:02:43.439 --> 00:02:45.599
I had no background in EV charging.
00:02:45.680 --> 00:02:48.000
I live in Texas, if that tells you anything.
00:02:48.159 --> 00:02:51.439
And we are the oil and gas capital.
00:02:52.000 --> 00:02:56.159
So it was quite a learning curve, but it's been a great ride so far for me.
00:02:56.240 --> 00:02:57.759
And I'm I'm happy to be here.
00:02:57.840 --> 00:03:05.840
And now my focus has shifted more on customer support and helping them navigate through the phase two portion of EV station management.
00:03:06.000 --> 00:03:06.080
Right.
00:03:06.400 --> 00:03:10.479
Um, I was gonna go into INF.
00:03:10.560 --> 00:03:12.400
I guess they want me to mention them as well.
00:03:13.199 --> 00:03:28.800
I my company INF Associates, it was founded in 2011 by our president Charles Day Coteaux, uh, originally started off with LED lighting installations, and we've evolved over the years into uh a more turnkey energy solutions provider.
00:03:28.960 --> 00:03:38.400
Starting around uh 2016, we got into the EV space with uh building uh infrastructure and installations in the New York area and around the Northeast.
00:03:38.560 --> 00:03:44.000
At that time, there were lots of incentives to install these stations and increase EV adoption.
00:03:44.159 --> 00:03:46.800
So it was a very fortuitous time for the company.
00:03:46.960 --> 00:03:49.360
And we had got a lot of installations done.
00:03:49.439 --> 00:03:51.680
We have over 10,000 across the country.
00:03:51.919 --> 00:04:02.240
And from that from that point, we've gone into fleet electrification planning, engineering design, incentive management, and other aspects of building and transportation decarbonation.
00:04:02.479 --> 00:04:16.720
And is INF's role in the space as an operator as well, or is just the folks helping to get the design, the pre-construction design, deployment, install, and then assisting in management, or is it all of the above?
00:04:16.879 --> 00:04:17.839
What does that look like?
00:04:18.079 --> 00:04:19.199
It is all of the above.
00:04:19.360 --> 00:04:28.399
We're INF itself is not directly involved as an owner operator, but we are certainly a resource for those site owners once the installation has occurred.
00:04:28.800 --> 00:04:39.439
Make sure that they understand how to maximize that, their stations and their return on investment so that they are happy with the decisions they've made for sustainability.
00:04:39.680 --> 00:04:39.839
Yeah.
00:04:40.079 --> 00:04:53.360
So from that standpoint, INF certainly has uh an interesting point of of reference for the space, at least from this perspective of what you're how you're helping the operators deploy and then of course maintain.
00:04:53.680 --> 00:04:59.519
And so we know, you know, in our in our industry, there's a lot of activity in EV charging.
00:04:59.680 --> 00:05:03.040
Not all of it always translates to the outcomes that we want.
00:05:03.360 --> 00:05:10.639
From your vantage point, what signals are mattering the most versus where the industry might be over-indexing on?
00:05:10.720 --> 00:05:12.800
And you can answer that as broadly as you want.
00:05:12.879 --> 00:05:17.759
It's it's kind of a broader industry question, but I'm just curious from your perspective what that looks like.
00:05:18.079 --> 00:05:18.160
Okay.
00:05:18.399 --> 00:05:19.040
Well, I'm certain.
00:05:19.279 --> 00:05:20.240
Happy to give it.
00:05:20.480 --> 00:05:35.759
As a relative newbie to this space, what I noticed when I first joined was a lot of emphasis on let's get the stations built so we can increase EV adoption, get things into the ground, help out where we can to get this uh moving in the right direction.
00:05:35.920 --> 00:05:48.000
But I don't know if because it was such a new idea and a new industry, how much thought was given to the after effects of that, how these stations will be maintained, uh the best way to optimize them.
00:05:48.160 --> 00:05:52.480
And what has lately been more and more of a concern is the effect on the grid and the stress.
00:05:52.720 --> 00:06:07.920
So I think as the industry has matured, they are less focused on so much getting stations in the ground and more managing those stations and making sure that the the grid can can support additional use in the future.
00:06:08.319 --> 00:06:11.120
Yeah, that's uh that's that's good feedback.
00:06:11.199 --> 00:06:27.040
And I I agree it's um in fact we had an earlier conversation just this week on an episode about deploying where it's convenient or maybe the easiest versus deploying where it really will make sense and operationally have the have the outcome and the ROI that people hope for.
00:06:27.199 --> 00:06:41.680
I'd say there's some core misunderstandings, at least maybe for the outsider that's looking into the space or someone that's you know running a different type of business but wants to maybe give EV charging, you know, the EV charging business a run, a run at that.
00:06:41.839 --> 00:06:56.959
And you know, if if I'm a site host and I'm thinking, you know what, there's a quick buck to be made in EV charging because you know people need to charge their EV, so I'm just gonna make money when people pull up and and they connect.
00:06:57.279 --> 00:07:00.800
What I'm hearing you say is it's it's a little bit more complex than that.
00:07:00.879 --> 00:07:24.160
And so there's value tied to the charging side, obviously, but when the charging is happening, how the charging is happening, and the other pieces around that, where does INF help operators or prospective operators evaluate uh a site's viability or or maybe even hands the performance of the site that's already deployed?
00:07:24.560 --> 00:07:33.759
Well, our uh project development team and engineering design team certainly helps with determining the right location and helping them to decide that.
00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:40.639
I usually come in after that has been established and helping them maximize the stations that are there.
00:07:40.879 --> 00:07:54.079
Because there are a lot of things that happen, even if you are in the right location and you have the right amount of traffic, there's things to consider as far as time of use for the stations, how much that's going to affect your electricity bill.
00:07:54.319 --> 00:08:01.279
The vast majority of complaints I get, not complaints, but concerns I get from customers, is that I have this machine.
00:08:01.360 --> 00:08:04.879
Yes, I'm making money, but my electricity bill is such is like this.
00:08:04.959 --> 00:08:06.319
And I wasn't expecting that.
00:08:06.480 --> 00:08:16.079
And so where we come in, as particularly my department, is looking at that, looking at the way that the stations are being used and making adjustments when necessary.
00:08:16.319 --> 00:08:24.480
It is sometimes even with the fee they're charging, it may not be adequate or it may not be competing successfully with other chargers in the area.
00:08:24.959 --> 00:08:37.279
And so, unlike something more mature, like say the gas industry, where all the gas stations have a certain amount of privacy that they have to stick to and they adjust it for their area and their um in their neighborhood.
00:08:37.440 --> 00:08:44.159
That's sort of where the EV stations are at this point, trying to make those fine adjustments to maximize what they can do.
00:08:44.399 --> 00:08:56.799
And in addition to that, we we try to help them find other ways of really just optimizing those stations with any programs that may be available to help them manage those more effectively.
00:08:57.440 --> 00:09:05.200
Yeah, there's there's certainly uh a need to be effective, both in pricing, of course, you know, depends on the region.
00:09:05.360 --> 00:09:15.600
There are some CPEOs that, you know, if they were really going to even break even, much less make a profit, their KW price would be a bit out there.
00:09:15.759 --> 00:09:19.840
And of course, there's so many things tied to the reasons and whys behind behind that.
00:09:20.159 --> 00:09:25.279
That there's some regional aspects to that beyond just utilization, uh, the cost to deploy, et cetera.
00:09:25.360 --> 00:09:32.240
So I think that's that's a valuable um, you know, valuable offering to to the space.
00:09:32.399 --> 00:09:43.600
If INF is looking to see where value is quietly leaking out at a site, maybe they're underpriced on pricing, or maybe they're overpriced on pricing, and people aren't coming to the site and helping to understand where that comes together.
00:09:43.759 --> 00:09:45.440
I think that's uh that's invaluable.
00:09:45.679 --> 00:09:51.519
Um you mentioned um incentives or and and we've kind of talked around that a little bit.
00:09:51.840 --> 00:09:58.639
Uh a lot of operators are, of course, chasing rebates and incentives up front to help offset that that capex.
00:09:58.879 --> 00:10:08.320
If if my understanding of the model that you bring uh to the space and where you're where you're leading your clients is that it it's about focusing on ongoing performance.
00:10:08.559 --> 00:10:11.679
Where do operators sometimes get this part wrong?
00:10:11.759 --> 00:10:19.840
And you could answer that from any perspective, whether the you know the environment of the vertical is multifamily or it's retail-facing site, whatever makes sense for you to answer it.
00:10:19.919 --> 00:10:25.200
But uh, where do operators get get this wrong and maybe leave money on the table without realizing it?
00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:33.679
It's not so much that they get something wrong as they're they don't maybe have all the information they need to make an educated decision.
00:10:33.919 --> 00:10:44.240
There's a lot of factors that go into uh these stations and keeping them operational and keeping them uh productive and profitable, or at least establishing revenue.
00:10:44.639 --> 00:11:03.919
A lot of station owners are unaware that they are rebates beyond just infrastructure and installation, such as what we call charge uh commercial load management, which means that some utilities, some like ConEd, will actually give you money back or rebate to limit your charging during certain peak windows of utilization.
00:11:04.080 --> 00:11:06.639
And that may vary from region to region.
00:11:07.039 --> 00:11:19.440
And so in those instances, we certainly will reach out to those customers and let them know, you know, there's ways you can help mitigate some of the expense with running these stations if the issue is a high bill or anything like that.
00:11:19.679 --> 00:11:23.679
So you're not, you know, charging your customers something, it may not be competitive.
00:11:23.840 --> 00:11:36.399
And there's other programs such as demand response, which, you know, also gives you a certain break on your on your stations, like while you're ramping up, they lower your demand charges until you come up to 100% or close to that.
00:11:36.639 --> 00:11:48.080
And these are all things that INF looks into for the customer and can set them up with so they can have every tool available to them to succeed and make these stations uh a valuable ass asset to them.
00:11:48.399 --> 00:11:48.720
Yeah.
00:11:48.960 --> 00:11:59.600
So those types of values that you're creating, that's not only for, you know, prospective operators, those looking at the site, a site's viability, that's for existing operators today.
00:11:59.679 --> 00:12:03.759
And maybe they've got sites and they're not aware of like the rebate that you just mentioned.
00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:05.519
Oh, I think you said it's caught in.
00:12:05.840 --> 00:12:07.200
They may not know that that's out there.
00:12:07.279 --> 00:12:12.639
And so your resource to them to be able to go and and help broker that for them.
00:12:12.879 --> 00:12:19.759
What is that what does that rebate actually a rebate like that actually look like to the in terms of of return to the operator?
00:12:19.840 --> 00:12:25.679
Is that like a credit towards utility or is it is it uh credit from the utility to them, or what does that rebate look like?
00:12:25.919 --> 00:12:30.240
Well, the ones we're working with in New York is the check directly to the customer.
00:12:30.480 --> 00:12:42.480
So it's um the charge and management programs, basically they charge you, they will pay you a set fee for charging off peak, which is usually, I'll just give an example, three cents per kilowatt hour.
00:12:42.639 --> 00:12:52.000
And then they will also re reimburse you two up to ten dollars per kilowatt for any any power that you avoid during these peak windows.
00:12:52.159 --> 00:13:05.360
So for instance, if you're able to, you know, if your stations can put out a hundred kilowatts during a two to six window, but it's only putting out 10, where you're getting 90, you're getting to pay it for those 90 kilowatts that you're not using during that time.
00:13:05.519 --> 00:13:05.600
Wow.
00:13:05.840 --> 00:13:07.360
And that comes back in a form of protection.
00:13:07.840 --> 00:13:08.080
Wow.
00:13:08.159 --> 00:13:09.679
That's uh that's some real value.
00:13:09.840 --> 00:13:17.039
That's some real value because a lot of times people think about rebates in terms of of deployment, not in terms of operation.
00:13:17.200 --> 00:13:18.720
And so that's some real value.
00:13:18.879 --> 00:13:23.919
Well, I hope you get some calls around that for those that are listening and want to take advantage of that.
00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:25.360
I hope you get some calls around that.
00:13:25.440 --> 00:13:25.840
That's great.
00:13:26.320 --> 00:13:26.960
I hope so too.
00:13:27.200 --> 00:13:28.240
I want to help them out.
00:13:28.399 --> 00:13:37.360
You know, well, that's some real value uh because operational is expenses is what is of course driving the ROI.
00:13:37.519 --> 00:13:41.279
And so to be able to offset that with a with a real check, that's that's that's cool.
00:13:41.600 --> 00:13:47.679
You know, a lot of times utilities are they are cited as as kind of the bottleneck in deployment.
00:13:47.919 --> 00:14:16.240
And you know, maybe they're they have a there's a layer of constraint to them, but how much, and this is just for an education note to the to those that are listening, how much of a site's performance is actually dictated by a utility program that operators maybe not understanding, like to your point about operating during a certain time, or maybe even what is it, um, open ADR where where a utility can can you know remote into a unit and throttle back its energy.
00:14:16.480 --> 00:14:17.200
Comments around that.
00:14:17.600 --> 00:14:21.360
Well, the utilities themselves are probably not so much directly involved.
00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:29.759
What they do is they ask uh the customers or site owners to uh look for ways to you know decrease their usage during utilization times.
00:14:30.080 --> 00:14:33.840
The operation of the site is is directly up to the site owners.
00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:36.159
Usually utilities are not involved in that.
00:14:36.320 --> 00:14:48.559
However, there are certain rebates and incentives that require a certain amount of uh reporting, data reporting, that some site owners may not be aware of or may not know you know the extent of what they need to do.
00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:56.320
And that can that can actually interfere with if they receive rebates for say installation, they're at risk for losing some of those.
00:14:56.720 --> 00:15:06.799
So it is uh very important that they understand when they do receive rebates and uh incentives from utilities, there is a certain amount of oversight to make sure that they are utilized correctly.
00:15:07.039 --> 00:15:13.120
Also, for there is a certain amount of utilization that needs to be shown in general.
00:15:13.360 --> 00:15:27.519
So anytime that there's stations that are offline or under repair, it's it's it can be a little bit challenging to deal with the utilities and keeping those machines online so that they're not sending you constant notices about your utilization patterns.
00:15:27.840 --> 00:15:28.080
Yeah.
00:15:28.320 --> 00:15:36.399
You know, you you mentioned data, and that actually is a good segue into a question I wanted to ask you about your model and and as it relates to data.
00:15:36.720 --> 00:15:47.519
You know, you you had a good call out there around data being available or as a or needing to be available to the utility as a requirement for that for that funding.
00:15:47.679 --> 00:15:53.360
Does INF help manage the that data for the operator?
00:15:53.519 --> 00:16:04.960
Is that a is that a service you guys as far as maintaining and operating that data, or is that something they've got to be able to make available to the utility directly, or do you do you help them maintain those records?
00:16:05.440 --> 00:16:06.559
We do a bit of both.
00:16:06.799 --> 00:16:06.960
Okay.
00:16:07.360 --> 00:16:11.919
For my part of the program with the commercial load management, we do help them with the data.
00:16:12.080 --> 00:16:19.679
We uh work with the NSPs and network service providers to make sure they are sending the required data to the utilities because they have certain requirements.
00:16:19.840 --> 00:16:20.799
I'm not a data person.
00:16:20.879 --> 00:16:22.879
I'm not gonna be able to send you the right one.
00:16:23.360 --> 00:16:32.000
But I can certainly act as a go-between to make sure that the data is coming from the software provider to the utility, that they have it correctly, that it's timely.
00:16:32.240 --> 00:16:45.919
And um in addition, additional later that I provide is I can analyze to data and let the customers know, okay, I noticed that you're only charging, you know, you know, I'll peak 60% of the time.
00:16:46.000 --> 00:16:50.879
And you could get more money back from this rebate if you switch to doing it more like 90% of the time.
00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:54.879
And so that's something that that's very unique to what we provide.
00:16:55.039 --> 00:16:57.759
The utilities will just look at the data and cut them a check.
00:16:57.840 --> 00:17:01.120
They're not going to try to maximize or optimize anything, they don't have the bandwidth.
00:17:01.679 --> 00:17:02.559
That's just right.
00:17:03.200 --> 00:17:07.599
Same thing with the NSPs, they're just sending a bunch of data on and moving on to the next thing.
00:17:07.680 --> 00:17:16.480
They're there to help the customer navigate how to get into their dashboard, how to, you know, look for, you know, chart change their pricing fees on their station.
00:17:16.640 --> 00:17:20.960
So this is something that usually gets off to the wayside, gets put off to the wayside.
00:17:21.119 --> 00:17:27.839
Also, what I've noticed across multiple sectors is most people that are put in charge of the machines on site know nothing about them.
00:17:27.920 --> 00:17:31.519
And they most of them weren't even involved in the decision to put them on site.
00:17:31.680 --> 00:17:33.920
And yet they've been given this responsibility.
00:17:34.240 --> 00:17:43.119
So it is very helpful to have someone step in and walk them through it, let them know what's expected, what we can do, and what we need permission to do.
00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:46.160
And we offer that to help deal with the data collection.
00:17:46.480 --> 00:18:03.519
Yeah, um, I can just imagine that there's been some probably sites that have been active that you've that you know you've walked into and and have tried to help, you know, refine their charging program, maximize their their ROI by leveraging rebates or other incentives that are out there.
00:18:03.599 --> 00:18:08.559
And the model certainly is going to require some glean data points and some historical reference.
00:18:08.720 --> 00:18:22.319
And so I'm just curious, how often do you do you walk into, you know, a an organization where maybe foundationally the data's not even there, it's not been tracked, or or maybe the hardware, maybe the hardware wasn't capable.
00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:29.599
Maybe it was uh, you know, an unintuitive unit or a a dumb unit, as we would refer to, um, you know, dumb in the sense that it's not connected.
00:18:29.839 --> 00:18:31.359
And so you don't really have that baseline.
00:18:31.680 --> 00:18:37.200
That's probably they're probably precluded based on certain types of hardware, I imagine, um, for these programs.
00:18:37.359 --> 00:18:37.680
I would think.
00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:38.079
Yes.
00:18:38.400 --> 00:18:40.079
Maybe there's Yes, there is.
00:18:40.240 --> 00:18:46.720
There's certain um your uh software mostly has to be able to manage to load and and make adjustments as needed.
00:18:46.880 --> 00:18:52.400
I have not yet come across sites that had such that had older software that wasn't capable of doing that.
00:18:52.720 --> 00:19:01.440
When we have, we've been able to just go in and have them upgrade to something because there are certain requirements for these rebates as to what the software needs to be able to do.
00:19:01.599 --> 00:19:07.839
And for in some some areas, the utility will actually pay for the software through a through a technical rebate program.
00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:12.640
So they'll pay for sometimes up to 90 to 100% of the software costs for five years.
00:19:12.799 --> 00:19:26.079
So if we go into a site in a s in that particular utility area and they have older software, they can't do charge management, we can simply have them go to an upgraded version that's accepted by the utility and they will pay for it.
00:19:26.240 --> 00:19:29.759
We'll just give them the specs, and if it's acceptable, they'll pay for it and cover it.
00:19:30.079 --> 00:19:32.880
So we find all kinds of ways to to deal with that.
00:19:33.119 --> 00:19:55.839
Yeah, so not only probably uh uh you know a software migration, whether it's within the same platform or to a competing platform that can provide what's needed to be compliant with the program, probably that extend I would imagine that would extend to the hardware as well, because there's probably some dated hardware that maybe is not operating at the spec that the you know the program dictates.
00:19:56.000 --> 00:20:01.920
So I would assume that maybe there's even you know some incentive there to to help upgrade the hardware too, maybe.
00:20:02.079 --> 00:20:02.480
I don't know.
00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:12.319
There's all types of technical incentives of for battery storage, you know, any sort of rib support, any kind of technology that will su that will support.
00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:16.160
Every utility has a different slightly different take and what they're offering.
00:20:16.400 --> 00:20:20.400
And I'll be honest with you, I'm not horribly technically adept.
00:20:20.799 --> 00:20:25.519
So anything else out of the software, I would be I can certainly speak for that and some of the others.
00:20:25.759 --> 00:20:30.799
I know, I know they're available, in other words, but I couldn't tell you exactly what's covered under most of these projects.
00:20:31.119 --> 00:20:31.200
Yeah.
00:20:32.240 --> 00:20:33.839
Yeah, no, no worries.
00:20:33.920 --> 00:20:36.480
Uh uh tot totally totally fine there.
00:20:36.880 --> 00:20:45.119
You know, from the from uh the operator's perspective, I assume many think that they can just and and this can vary from sector to sector.
00:20:45.279 --> 00:20:55.920
Because like I say, I imagine you're working with clients and and connecting them with programs in various different verticals, like I said, multifamily fleet, you know, whatever, whatever the site looks like.
00:20:56.000 --> 00:21:03.519
And so I'm sure maybe outside of a fleet context, operators think that they can probably influence the charging behavior at a site once it's active.
00:21:03.680 --> 00:21:05.359
They can control access, et cetera.
00:21:05.440 --> 00:21:11.599
But do you see a gap between what they think they can control versus what is actually controllable at the site level?
00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:18.640
And again, that's probably gonna have a different answer versus we're talking fleet or multifamily or any other sector.
00:21:18.720 --> 00:21:19.039
I don't know.
00:21:19.359 --> 00:21:19.680
Absolutely.
00:21:19.839 --> 00:21:21.039
And you you are right.
00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:25.680
There's certainly a difference between, say, a private or a public access site.
00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:30.319
You mostly I will st we'll just give an example for multifamily.
00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:36.960
That that type of site most likely does have a little bit more influence on driver behavior because of the restricted access.
00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:46.079
They may not be able to use the stations unless they have an access code or or they're they've been put into the system as a as a possible driver.
00:21:46.240 --> 00:21:59.119
Um, for public chargers, it's a little bit more like the Wild, Wild West to uh just sort of hope that um, you know, you can set the rules and guidelines in place and do your best to make sure that the chargers remain available to everyone.
00:21:59.200 --> 00:21:59.759
That's the big thing.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:04.799
Making sure the charges are remain available and open to the drivers who need them.
00:22:05.279 --> 00:22:07.440
And there's various ways of doing that.
00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:20.240
Instituting what we call idle fees for people who park and bark and or just making sure or just making sure that the customer, you know, or the or the driver knows the guidelines running use of that charging station.
00:22:20.319 --> 00:22:29.039
And we do help, we help the um the site owners to navigate through that depending on what issues they're having or what they anticipate having and possible solutions to that.
00:22:29.200 --> 00:22:35.279
So there's there's a certain amount of control, but again, people will do what they want to do as far as drivers.
00:22:35.519 --> 00:22:37.680
And that's that's always going to be a possibility.
00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:38.319
Yeah.
00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:47.759
Well, I wanted um I wanted to ask you about um a little bit more on the um utilities and where they're you know where they're incentivizing installation.
00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:54.880
Are they, you know, is there a slowing or throttling back of of incentivizing the installation?
00:22:55.200 --> 00:23:00.480
Is there, you know, is there more of a focus on decreasing you know the stress on the grid?
00:23:00.640 --> 00:23:02.480
What what during peak hours?
00:23:02.559 --> 00:23:09.200
I know you you alluded to that about the the time of use, but how how does that change operators define the value of a site?
00:23:09.359 --> 00:23:14.960
Because I'm sure they're trying to they're trying to lock in on where you know what site is viable versus one that's not.
00:23:15.200 --> 00:23:15.359
Okay.
00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:24.319
Well, I can certainly speak for New York because we've had some recent changes with the utilities as far as funding for installation infrastructure.
00:23:24.640 --> 00:23:34.640
As the uh as the industry has matured, uh, they've noticed that there may have been some things that they didn't consider when they initially put out all the rebates and incentives.
00:23:34.720 --> 00:23:42.960
And they're just probably taking a little bit of a step back to see where the funds are best could best be utilized as far as new installations and incentives.
00:23:43.119 --> 00:23:46.160
So there might be a little bit of pullback on that for the time being.
00:23:46.319 --> 00:23:58.720
It may not be forever, but just simply for right now, which may translate to maybe not as many installations going on right now if they are dependent on incentives because they are on a bit of a hold right now.
00:23:58.880 --> 00:24:06.799
However, what is available are the incentives for load managing and optimizing the stations that you have and decreasing that stress on the grid right now.
00:24:06.960 --> 00:24:15.839
And that has been a main focus for for the utilities that we've seen while we're waiting to see how they're gonna re uh readjust the the installation portion.
00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:37.359
So what we can do is while a site owner might be thinking of expanding, we can in the meantime show them how if they do choose to expand with or without these incentives, they can still get a, they can still get a return on their NOI with these uh they can still increase their NOI with these stations and help offset some of the costs over the long term.
00:24:37.519 --> 00:24:44.720
So that's what we're sort of focusing on as far as uh helping them to sort of navigate these changes in the industry as we're seeing them.
00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:52.640
And and if you just just curious, what what do you think the recalibration at the utility from from focus on that is driven by?
00:24:52.799 --> 00:24:57.279
Is it just been driven by sites that maybe weren't as successful and capital was deployed there?
00:24:57.359 --> 00:25:01.759
Or what what do you think is what do you think is driving that that pullback or maybe that pause?
00:25:01.920 --> 00:25:02.960
I don't know if it's a pullback.
00:25:03.519 --> 00:25:07.039
Well, it's more about it's more of a pause than a pullback at this point.
00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:13.519
I think that they were hoping to get more information as far as data for how sites were being utilized.
00:25:13.599 --> 00:25:17.920
And a lot of I can I can pretty much tell you that they were lacking in some of that.
00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:28.640
They there was a lot of sites that were installed, and a lot of utilities have a five-year mandatory data reporting that may or may not have been met by certain sites and certain installers.
00:25:28.880 --> 00:25:37.519
So until they get to data that installing these stations in certain areas is actually a useful, it's it's a good use of there of the funds.
00:25:37.680 --> 00:25:45.759
They're just kind of taking a look and seeing where it's best to deploy this and where the data supports that moving forward, which is totally understandable.
00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:52.400
Um, in the meantime, like I said before, there's still they still have these other programs open for existing stations.
00:25:52.559 --> 00:25:55.440
And there's still time to go in and and start reporting.
00:25:55.519 --> 00:26:05.200
There's no, you know, if you do have the data, we can go in and to these comp to these sites and say, listen, we understand that you need three years' worth of data report it to the utility.
00:26:05.279 --> 00:26:10.880
We can help you turn that in so that you're in compliance with that with that aspect of the uh rebate.
00:26:11.039 --> 00:26:13.200
So I think that the pause will be temporary.
00:26:13.279 --> 00:26:19.759
I don't know, but it's just going to be for the time being, just sort of working around it and getting reset and allowing them to restructure.
00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:20.079
Yeah.
00:26:20.319 --> 00:26:35.440
If uh if a mid-tier operator, you know, a regional CPO just invited you kind of behind the curtain, they wanted you to evaluate their charging portfolio today because maybe they think it's it's performing well, or maybe they're they're thinking that they're leaving money on the table.
00:26:35.599 --> 00:26:41.200
What it's maybe one of the first things that you would start to check to see if they're if things are being overlooked?
00:26:41.599 --> 00:26:48.480
Well, first and foremost, I would just ask them to define what they feel performing well means across their portfolio.
00:26:48.640 --> 00:26:48.799
Okay.
00:26:49.359 --> 00:26:53.119
And what their ultimate goals would be for the stations.
00:26:53.279 --> 00:27:20.000
Once I get that, I can sort of put together, I can take a look across their portfolio at their sites, what's being utilized, how often, what utilities and districts they're in some to see if there's any incentives that may be available that they weren't aware of, or just basically fine-tuning what they have as far as operating it, you know, making sure that they have their sites, their uptime is is staying above 90%, that they don't have machines offline for long periods of time.
00:27:20.240 --> 00:27:24.720
That I can be as granular as making sure that the machines are visible in certain sites.
00:27:24.880 --> 00:27:30.480
I I had one site where the uh machine was blocked by a tenant storage and nobody knew it was there.
00:27:30.799 --> 00:27:36.480
There's yes, there's various ways to um there's always ways to increase performance.
00:27:36.559 --> 00:27:41.680
I don't think I've ever been to a site where there was nothing we could do, um, especially with a portfolio.
00:27:41.839 --> 00:27:46.160
There might have been one site that was very overperforming and one that was doing wasn't doing so well.
00:27:46.319 --> 00:27:50.000
And so we want to look at the one that's not doing so well and see what we can do to help it out.
00:27:50.160 --> 00:27:51.440
So that's basically what I look at.
00:27:51.519 --> 00:27:54.400
I look at it holistically first and then kind of get into the details.
00:27:54.640 --> 00:27:57.519
And see and just work with them on what their goals are.
00:27:57.680 --> 00:27:58.720
So we're in alignment.
00:27:59.119 --> 00:28:05.519
Monica, I appreciate you you coming on field frequency and sharing these insights and what you know programs INF is doing.
00:28:05.839 --> 00:28:06.559
It's critical.
00:28:06.640 --> 00:28:22.079
And I I hope that there's some operators that are listening that um, you know, will be willing to reach out and and see what INF can do for them or what, you know, maybe they're in the the northeast or in an area that that you guys are, you know, really working in, understanding the programs and the utility uh offerings that are available.
00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:26.079
So um to that end, Monica, how how could the audience connect with you?
00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:30.960
What's the best way to reach out, reach out to you, follow what you're doing and what INF is doing?
00:28:31.039 --> 00:28:32.480
What's the best way to connect with you guys?
00:28:32.799 --> 00:28:34.079
Well, we have several ways.
00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:39.759
You could um go to our website, www.infassociates.com.
00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:41.599
You could also visit us on LinkedIn.
00:28:41.759 --> 00:28:51.359
We have a pretty active LinkedIn profile for INF Associates, or you can simply reach out directly to our email, which is solutions at INFAssociates.com.
00:28:51.440 --> 00:28:54.000
That is monitored by myself and my associate.
00:28:54.160 --> 00:29:03.119
And we're happy to put you in touch with a consultant if it's somebody outside of myself to make sure you receive the support and answers to the questions that you have.
00:29:03.519 --> 00:29:05.599
Monica, thank you for coming on Field Frequency.
00:29:05.680 --> 00:29:07.119
It's been a pleasure chatting with you today.
00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:08.240
Thank you so much, Jason.
00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:09.440
I appreciate you having me.
00:29:09.680 --> 00:29:12.880
This episode was produced and edited by the team at Atozi.
00:29:13.119 --> 00:29:18.240
To find out more, visit autosi.co a-ut o z y dot co.
