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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Fantasy Footballers Dynasty Podcast with Borg Bets and a Baller.
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Speaker 2: Welcome back.
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Speaker 3: We're here on the Fantasy Footballers Dynasty Podcast. I'm your host kab Organoni and I'm joined by Matthew Betts and Mike Right.
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Speaker 4: Hello, fellas. I am. I kind of feel like this is like the start of the next phase of the Dynasty off season. Rookie talk. Finally, Philip, you've been kind of like saying, like, we'll get to it soon. You know, we'll get there soon. We're here, boys, it's officially time.
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Speaker 3: It was like we're doing we're starting the two days and it's one of those things where the workouts you're like, oh, yeah, I'm going to do that, and then you actually have to get up and start working out. So we're working out together. That's why I'm looking at it.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. So yeah, mental reps there we go.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, we're in fine physical peak condition right now.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, don't worry about that. Don't worry about that.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, and these players we're going to talk about only great things. That's all we're going to hear about. We have Senior Bowl coming up, we have combine that's going to be happening. In about a month and a half, like only good things. And on this episode, we're mostly going to give an overview of the twenty twenty five rookies and kind of give our thoughts of how we see rookie picks sliding. Right now. I mean, we will have, you know, Super Bowl Sunday, our first rookie mock draft. But I think I enjoy that it's a process over the next couple of months, Like I don't have to land at a final opinion of Jalen Milroe right now, which, by the way, the Alabama quarterback. I've watched him for years my family's Alabama fans. How that translates to the NFL is a different conversation. And what I see on film what the production profile says, his very small hands that I've already been told he has tiny hands.
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Speaker 2: Well like uh, like Austin Eckler. Did you guys catch that Tom Brady putting Eckler in a in a bodybag broadcast fumble? After the fumble, he was like, that's one of the knocks on Austin Eckler. He's got really small hands, just like whoa Tom Tom Like Eckler is so far along in his career. We don't even talk about how big his hands are. He yes, he fumbled in a really big moment, but why you gotta be like, what an idiot fumbling? Also, his hands are so small and embarrassing.
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Speaker 4: Uh, it is hand sign season, you know, it's that time he is yes, it is yes what you're referring to. Kyle Islan Milroe weighed in at the Senior Bowl official measurements eight point I think six to eight inch chance, which for context, Kenny Pickett was like the poster boy of the last you know, five six, seven years of like the Small Hands Award. He was eight and a half inchance. So not the best start for Milroe here in the process.
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Speaker 2: I know.
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Speaker 3: I will say that as a Falcons fan, a lot of things were made about Michael Pennox in his hands and they are massive, Like his fingers are incredibly big. When you look at him holding the football and he holds it a little different, especially as a lefty, it just comes out different than everyone else. So when you see like a tight spiral for Michael Penix, you go, oh, that kind of makes sense. But there's also things that we just overvalue. One of the things we'll talk about too for combine season. Is there certain events that we tend to overvalue and double count. We'll say, this guy's you know he did this, but we fail to look at what he did in the three cone drill or whatever and what actually translates. So we'll talk about some of that as we get closer of like, okay, what actually matters are These are really fun measurements. It's really fun to get data points, I think, just to talk about. And sometimes we go a little too far down the rabbit hole, Like I know there will be a point where I'm in the spreadsheets and you guys got to pull me out. You guys got to make sure that I don't go too far.
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Speaker 2: You get lost. I get lost in lost dem sheets, lost.
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Speaker 3: In looking at things that I think might matter, and then three or four months down the road, I go, now, what did I do with that spreadsheet? Where is that thing? Like there are so many dead Google spreadsheets out there.
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Speaker 2: We're all looking for the golden ticket though, we're looking for that one piece of information, that one statistic there where you're like, I did it. I found the god particle that tells us exactly who's going to be good in the NFL. So that's yeah, of course we're going to be chasing that dragon. It's impossible, but we're all gonna chase. Yeah.
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Speaker 4: Off season Kyle is a special breed. I mean, I can't tell you any amount of text I get or slack messages, sometimes even a phone call where he's like, bets, I don't I'm not sure if this matters. But I'm I've been, I've been. You called me once and you were talking to me like, I really like this idea of like third downs running backs, they might not matter that much, man. And this is when we we had the twins. Okay, so I'm like sleep deprived. It's like the middle of summer. I'm like, Kyle, dude, I appreciate your effort here, Like I just I'm not there with you right now, buddy, leave me alone. But off season, Kyle, he will he will dig for the stats that matter to only him, and maybe they matter for us. We'll find out. But I think I think your point is fair, Kyle, and just that like these prospects, we're gonna collect data points along the entire way, starting with the Senior Bowl, all the production profiles, the combine the NFL Draft and trying to figure out like what actually matters. I think is so important for some of these guys because you can get stuck on one piece of the puzzle, but if you don't have it all together, then sometimes it doesn't matter.
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Speaker 3: I will say, if that is the one phone call that I that I made, and I've talked to you a couple other times on the phone.
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Speaker 4: But you've called me before. Otherwise, it was about that sticks out.
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Speaker 3: That was a very very big moment in my career. I wrote a big article on that, so it got nominated for research articles. So maybe that's what I need to do. But I'm I'm gonna reserve that for just a special moment. Maybe I won't even have one. The off seas, we'll see the twenty twenty five Dynasty Pass, which is part of the Ultimate Draft Kit. Plus we'll be out on Super Bowl Sunday. We're taking pre orders right now and if you want to get at the lowest possible price, now is the time our production profiles. We're working through every single team. I just finished the AFC East and man, going through the Dolphins was painful. Did you guys know that the Dolphins wide receivers had the fewest receiving touchdown of any group in the NFL this year.
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Speaker 2: That makes sense. I felt that olt it a lot last year.
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Speaker 3: It was it was really bad. You didn't see the big plays. But I also got to break down that team in their contract situation. So that's all there, and the team opportunities in the Dynasty Pass, Mike. We just updated so some of our production profiles, some of the running backs we're going to talk about today. They look pretty strong, but that'll be out very soon.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, the uh, well we'll start talking some data here, but yes, the it's very encouraging to see these, uh the market trends. And when we say a production profile, if you're new to that, we're essentially, you know, like comparing what one of these these kids did in college, like how much of their h the teams running back, their rush yards, they're the rushing touchdowns, the receptions, things like that. Then comparing that to players that are in the NFL that we know are good, that are good for fantasy. What did they do in college, like so just you know, they're building up their profile so we can have at least something to compare two pros. Because I mean, you you're never one hundred percent sure how a rookie's going to do in the NFL till they start taking snaps. Marvin Harrison Junior. Uh So, even when when guys look fantast we just we need all the all the information we can to make the best probability guess, because it is a guess, but it is you're you're trying to build that probability in your side.
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Speaker 3: You can get all that at ultimate draftkit dot com or you're feeling spunky dynastypass dot com, which you.
00:08:17
Speaker 2: Know, Oh, all the u r ls.
00:08:20
Speaker 3: All of them, all of them. I did want to start this off with a little bit of a game.
00:08:29
Speaker 1: I want to play a game.
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Speaker 3: I know that music is terrifying for bets. Mike, you like games on the show, right.
00:08:39
Speaker 2: I do. Well. Usually a game ends up the like one of one of your takes or one of your held beliefs is made to look stupid because we we like to uh compare players that you think are great to players that you think are not, and then you find out that they're like exactly the same statistically.
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Speaker 4: Kyle's goal there is to make us look like the idiots today.
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Speaker 2: Mike, Yes, yeah, So well, yeah, I'm sure we'll look the fool.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, so this is gonna be best Fine versus Mike. So you guys are gonna kind of compete against each other two fools. One of you will look dumb and I will both, and I'm gonna look really smart for coming up with these questions. But all right, this is rookie Draft trivia. So if you're listening, you can actually play along with us, and you're probably just shouting the entire time, you know the answers. But I'm gonna give us five questions and you guys get points if you get them correct. And it's looking over the past decade or so. I'm gonna more skew towards recent because once you get to the twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen, I know you have a good memory, but I wanted us to talk about what we thought at the time. So rookie draft ADP in Dynasty rookie drafts, and you know, some of these will be really good talking points of oh yeah, that's exactly what happened, but we're gonna talk mostly ADP here. So where did these players go in their rookie drafts? The first question for you guys, it's kind of a back and forth affair. It's kind of to see if you guys can keep up. But last year we did not have a running back go one oh one in one quarterback drafts. Right like, it wasn't even considered. Jonathan Brooks would have been the first one off the board. But over the last decade, we have had a lot of running backs go one oh one, and it seems like this year Ashton genty will be another person we out of that mix. I want you guys to go back and forth over the last decade and name running backs who went one oh one in rookie drafts. And I will just say, going all the way back, there's one year where a wide receiver could have gone. It's kind of split. But before that one, before this past year, guys, it's basically been every year since twenty fifteen that a running back in one quarterback drafts was drafted.
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Speaker 2: For back am I supposed to go?
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Speaker 3: You can go all the way back to twenty fifteen. You don't have to go in order. I just want to see if you guys can can name them off the top of your head. So I will let Mike go first, and then Betts will go and you just name one at a time and we'll see if we can who's left stand.
00:11:09
Speaker 2: That was the layup, Clydewards lay That's why I took it.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was Clyde Edwards layer or JTT depending on the site.
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Speaker 4: Uh zeke zeke yes, hm h Josh Jacobs.
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Speaker 3: Josh Jacobs did go one on one in some leagues. Nikhil Harry went one on one that year, but it was Jacobs. Naji Nase did go one on one. That was a year where Jamar Chase also was in consideration a lot of leagues, but Nase is part of that group. There's two really big names that uh that might be on your radar recent history.
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Speaker 2: Hm hmm.
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Speaker 4: This is where I'm getting stumped because I had I had Nase in there too.
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Speaker 2: I gotta kicks. Those were the five that I could pull off the top of my head. Recent Oh oh oh uh Bijon Oh obviously Jean jon and Breece.
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Speaker 3: And Breece would be another if you want to go back even further. Uh, in that Fame twenty seventeen class, Leonard Fournette would have been taken at the very top. He was one oh four in the NFL draft, and then if you go all the way back to uh twenty sixteen, Todd Gurley was also taken at the very very top. So, going all the way back over the last decade, guys, it's been running backs at the top, and this past year it wasn't that so point for Mike right there?
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Speaker 2: All right?
00:12:35
Speaker 3: In one quarterback league's where did Treylon Burks go in rookie drafts? Burke's closest person gets the point. This is twenty twenty two.
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Speaker 2: I'm gonna do you want to guess? First? Bet sure?
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Speaker 4: I was going to say the one oh three.
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Speaker 2: One o five.
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Speaker 3: Oh, you guys split the difference. It's one o four.
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Speaker 4: Where he was without going over point for bets.
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Speaker 3: And just to give you some context, some guys who went after him that draft olave O lave, Garrett Wilson, Jameson Williams, and then you had like Sky Moore, Christian Watson, Pickens, James Cook. Uh So, yeah, I feel like you guys just can't see each other out on that one.
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Speaker 2: That's fine, Yeah, I agree, all right?
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Speaker 3: Next question here, where did Lamar Jackson go in super flex leagues? Back in twenty eighteen? So if you remember, Lamar was drafted the very end of the first round by the Ravens. There were five quarterbacks taken in that draft. Where did he go in super flex leagues?
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Speaker 2: Man, my super flex knowledge is not strong for back that far, but I would guess I mean, like in single quarterback leagues, Lamar was was like later embarrassingly late for for who Lamar Jackson has become, uh super flex. I will guess that he went like, uh two oh one, okay, bets, I'll go that late.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm just thinking back to like the general media view of Lamar, which was like you might have to convert, you know, I don't know if he can play a quarterback like that was like the thing in the NFL draft back.
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Speaker 2: Then, and and Flacco was still yeah, like so I think there was still a lot of stake around Lamar at that at that class.
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Speaker 4: I was gonna say like two o five, all.
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Speaker 3: Right, he went at the one oh seven. Oh, I had a little bit of steam, but still even one o seven right now, we're like that sounds insane, Like why did this guy not.
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Speaker 2: For a for a quarterback draft in the first round?
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Speaker 3: That's wild, right, Like if you just think of what Jade Daniels was, who's very much a Lamar comp and you're like, oh, well he was gonna go one o two in most super flex leagues. It's crazy. Also that year, just his little bonus trivia, Josh Allen went as the QB five at two O five.
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Speaker 4: Wow, like GoF the two of five? Right, ron guy, you.
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Speaker 3: Get you get no points. I award you no points and may God have mercy, thank you. Okay, next question is this is a fun one. Is in honor of Jason, who is a more. Put these Moors in order of their rookie A d P Okay. So these guys went in different years, but we've had a lot of Moors wide receiver.
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Speaker 2: So Sky early to late.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, Sky Moore, Elijah Moore, Rondeale Moore, and DJ Moore.
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Speaker 2: Where did the Moors go? Let me shot these down.
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Speaker 3: That's if you got a guess put them you can put them in order first.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'll take a stab at it.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, go ahead, bets.
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Speaker 4: I think it was Sky, then DJ, then Elijah, then Rondelle.
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Speaker 2: I'm going DJ Sky, Rondeal, Elijah.
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Speaker 3: Oh so is DJ Sky, Elijah Rondale in that?
00:16:05
Speaker 2: So I just I just got the last two wrong.
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Speaker 3: You got last two wrong, bets, I got the first two right.
00:16:09
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:16:09
Speaker 3: So DJ went at one oh five. Sky More famously went at one oh eight. I'm sure a lot of people are just burned that pick. Elijah Moore at two three.
00:16:18
Speaker 2: You know who else burned that pick?
00:16:19
Speaker 4: The Kansas City Chiefs also true.
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Speaker 3: Uh also super Bowl champ, two times Super Bowl champ. Sky Moore and Rondell went at two oh five. Another funny pick. If you just go back through rookie picks. All right, one more here, and I'm pretty sure Mike's winning.
00:16:35
Speaker 2: Yes, I could be wrong, I'm one hundred percent sure.
00:16:37
Speaker 5: All right, Poka, it's already done.
00:16:42
Speaker 3: Was drafted as the wide receiver? What in rookie drafts that year? So not the NFL draft, but in rookie drafts? What number wide receiver was he drafted?
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Speaker 2: Us? I mean he was if he were draft it's either in the late third or in the fourth. The he went undrafted in plenty. I'm gonna go I will give him like wide receiver fifteen is no, that's not even enough. I look at wide receiver twenty. I don't know.
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Speaker 4: I was gonna say Fifteen is the number that literally was in my head the whole time, and then you said it, and I was like, wait, if you didn't even get drafted half of these leagues, there's no way that's possible. So yeah, somewhere around around twenty is what I would say too.
00:17:30
Speaker 3: It was fifteen.
00:17:31
Speaker 4: We might be are so smart?
00:17:34
Speaker 3: It so wide receivers that went ahead of Pooka you might have heard of before, Jonathan Mingo, Jalen Hyatt, Cedric Tillman, that's fine, tank Dell Keisham, Butte Michael Wilson went as wide receiver fourteen.
00:17:48
Speaker 2: On appage, which, look, I'm fine with all these Why Michael Wilson was a Day two pick, right?
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Speaker 3: And I think going through this and just looking at the data, and we have some articles on the side if you want to look at them, just here's what happen into rookie drafts. Here's some mistakes, here's some things we can learn. Is it's really easy to have hindsight analysis and say here's what happened, I'm so smarter, I'm so dumb, or whatever, But more of just seeing that there's a range of outcomes. Everybody's gonna try to find a pooka, and everyone tried to find this year's pooka and a lot of times they just don't exist. And that's okay. But looking back through some of this, I see like so many different evaluations that at the time I thought this player belongs here in rookie drafts, let's just where they go, and you kind of see a lot of group think of just like this guy's the one O eight, sky Moore is the one O eight, no matter what, and so many of those picks get burned. So we will have a lot of discussion over the next couple of months. But it was fun to go down memory lane. Mike, you're the champion bets not even close.
00:18:48
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was a poor performance on my part. Not proud, per expected.
00:18:54
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say your your win expectancy in games is non existent.
00:18:59
Speaker 4: I just I just I claim up. Man, I hear the in the drop and I just get nervous. My blood pressure shirt's going, so yeah, I just you know, completely falter under pressure.
00:19:09
Speaker 3: All right, Well, you got the off season, so start those two days and train up. Let's take a quick break. We'll be right back, all right. So it's that time of the year where we get to press reset. And we've done a lot of reviewing on this podcast talking about last year's rookies. So Brian Thomas Junior, Jane Daniels, I mean, Bucky Iring feels like one of those players that we just finished talking about him, but I kind of want to just keep talking about him over the next couple of weeks because he's just a fun player and his Dynasty values to the roof. So that's kind of what's fresh in my mind, and so it's kind of easy to take that and then turn that towards this year's rookies and go, Okay, look at these difference makers for fantasy. I know I'm going to find that or at least like take that feeling and want to put that on those players. So we're gonna talk about this year's class from a ten thousand foot view. How do you guys feel, what do you think about picks? What are you guys doing in your leagues? And maybe give some people some thoughts before we dive into the film. Ki Rookie, Welcome to the NFA. I like doing this podcast with you guys. Just just says an aside, Oh, thanks Kyle, but you didn't let me finish my point because because I think we're pretty honest with each other. Like when we go through the process, all three of us including Jason two, like we all look at these players on our own, Like I don't sit there and say, let's watch the exact same piece of film for cam Skataboo and just say this is what's gonna happen. Instead, we take our own process and then we all kind of combine it together and it kind of gives a well rounded approach. But I'm gonna be honest. There are some players that I feel like I know the name, I know some production stuff, and yet I haven't watched them on film yet. So part of this is gonna be an honest assessment and some questions of like here's where I'm at, here's what I would love to see going into the film, instead of us just saying like, here's everything about this player and I have a final opinion. So I'm assuming you guys haven't watched every player yet.
00:21:20
Speaker 2: Nope, No, I'm still at the higher level, but you know, getting into actual like I said, the production profiles and starting to grind the tape on these running backs.
00:21:30
Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely, we're still service level here, and we'll have episodes coming up where it's like strictly geared towards the quarterbacks, just the running backs, wide receivers, and tight ends. But yeah, I think as we turn the page and like this is kind of the start of it, it's always good to, I think, get a sense of just top level, like what does the NFL draft community think of these guys at the start, because things are gonna change over the next two months, but like, here's where guys might be protected to go. Here's what the kind of general NFL feels about these guys. And then we get to kind of add in our own analysis along the way, and as we get more data points, change our opinions. But yeah, I'm still very much service level on a lot of these guys. Obviously I've watched like the big names, but definitely haven't gotten into a lot of the guys that are projected to go round two or even later.
00:22:15
Speaker 3: I'm kind of excited for the slow burn and the reveal of Usually one of us will go like, hey, I got a guy. I'm not gonna tell you it is, but I got a guy, and so far I have one.
00:22:27
Speaker 2: Oh, you have already got a guy. I got a guy.
00:22:30
Speaker 3: That I'm surprised that I liked him more than I thought, like going to this process of go, oh, this is just the dude. Another name is gonna get thrown in, So I'm gonna let that just kind of slide. I'm not gonna even mention him on this podcast because I want to hear what you guys think when we get to that episode. But I will say this about this class just to give you some numbers. The twenty twenty five class is kind of top heavy. And if you just look at it right now, so we can look at NFL mock Draft database and they show us, hey, here's where people are drafted are mocked so far, and if you compare that to a year ago, we are kind of short on offensive skill position players quarterbacks, running backs, wide receivers, and Titans. There's only thirteen right now being mocked in the first two rounds. To just give you context, like going all the way back to twenty eighteen, we've had at least seventeen every single year and the average is about twenty, so twenty players in the first two rounds that we would say, hey, that's pretty good draft capital that you're taking in the first two rounds. I think the hardest thing to compare this year to last year is just there's a lot of question marks about wide receiver and I think right now, based on consensus, there's only two quarterbacks that'll go in the first round as of right now. That's like a pretty small pool. Where last year you think of what a late first round pick was, like you were getting lad McConkey towards the end of the first round, and even like Brian Thomas Junior would have slipped to like one oh six one oh seven in leagues. So I don't know, just from a standpoint, I'm giving people the advice that their later round first round picks are not as valuable as last year. Do you guys agree with me?
00:24:07
Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, things go ahead, but things can change, and you can always find a couple of diamonds in the rough and guys will gain steam in terms of like NFL Draft stock over the course of the next several weeks. That happens every year with a couple of guys. But just like thinking back to the context of last year's draft, like going into it, you knew that you had like we say this all the time, but like we use it way too much quote unquote generational talent level players of Marv and Caleb Williams, and these guys were like highlight reel plays coming out of school and you knew they would hopefully be great in the NFL. Like that's how we all viewed them, and that was kind of the start to finish view of them until we got to the NFL season. There aren't those guys in this class. Now Gent's his own thing and we'll talk about that, but like overall, you know, there's not a lot of publicly viewed, can't miss prospects really at any position maybe outside of Gent. So I think in general the class is weaker, and I agree with you. Because of that, you're not going to see as many first round talents and therefore, like once you get to probably i don't know, one oh seven ish, you're gonna be able to start to poke some holes in a lot of these guys. So yeah, I think in general, I agree with you. The back of first round of rookie drafts definitely is weaker than last year.
00:25:12
Speaker 2: And we have the like one of a player who should go in the top five. I mean, he is one of the favorites to go one oh one. Uh in the NFL draft. Travis Hunter is like, what how are they going to use it? Like, yeah, he he deserves to be there in the NFL draft because he's so versatile. But for us for doing fantasy is he being like, will he be drafted to be a cornerback and play some wide receiver? He's gonna be drafted to be a wide receiver, play some corner for both. I mean I I don't think we know exactly what's gonna happen to him, Like he is gonna he could possibly break a whole bunch of models out there because draft capital is so important to us, And you're like, yeah, but how about this wide receiver who's drafted one oh one, but then he plays cornerback. Don'ts that would be so wide that whole situations?
00:26:07
Speaker 4: Why if like over the course of you know till like April and May, all the news is like, hey, we're thinking we're thinking wide receiver with this guy, and you're like, okay, one o two, you pick him, and all of a sudden, you're like, actually, in training camp, we're thinking more cornerback. You just burn a top three rookie pick on a cornerback. Yeah, hopefully we're going to draft draft.
00:26:26
Speaker 2: Day when they when they're reading that out his position, we're all good. And if they say cornerback, we're all going to be devastated.
00:26:34
Speaker 3: It was I remember a couple of years ago when the Jaguars took Trevon Walker number one overall over Aiden Hutchinson. They announced him as a linebacker, which if you just think about it, I mean, his agent gets to like say, like, this is what he's worth. He's an edge guy, you know, and we think of linebacker's very different. Now, drafting a linebacker at one oh one sounds like a terrible pick based on today's NFL. So yeah, we're gonna be waiting on that. Daniel Jeremiah had a differing opinion and where he said, hey, I expect more wide receiver and I could be wrong on this, but that would be great just to give you some context. We'll go position by a position. But like, he is a wild card. We've never had anything like this, so we don't really have data points to say, here's what we did in rookie drafts in twenty seventeen based on this. But last year he was outside on ninety four percent of his snap. No other wide receiver among you this year's class played a higher percentage of their snaps out wide normally. We would say if you are just that, that's kind of like something to think about in the NFL. That doesn't always translate if you're only an outside guy. We like the versatility. The year before, sixty four percent of his targets were in the slot, so he can do both.
00:27:40
Speaker 2: He was just used a.
00:27:41
Speaker 3: Certain way, and I mean broke broke college football essentially. So I think all of us are just saying, like we're going to reserve our opinions until later with Hunter. Where if you're one of those people that has your picks and you're saying, what do I do unless your draft is in this next month, like no one, no one's making you make a decision right now, I would just say, in general, if you have an early pick, it's valuable and will only gain value. So don't like trade out because you think you're slotted to get Hunter or something like. Just stay the process and go with us. But let's start at quarterback. We've talked before how opinions can change drastically, like our the last couple of years. We've talked about Levis, We've talked about Malik Willis, we talked about last year, and we kind of used that as a well, these older quarterbacks, how does the NFL really feel about them? And then you see six quarterbacks taken early and for the most part, it was an awesome class, right it was. It was incredible.
00:28:41
Speaker 2: I have a some some side thoughts on that go for just there's just you know, philosophical hopes and dreams of the way that NIL works now for these college kids that they can all like make not all I'm sorry, the superstars whatever they're they're making really really good money. Like you're seeing the NIL deals of some of these kids getting announced and they're it's like, uh, I saw someone compared like this, this kid's gonna making more money than will Levis is going to be making off of his rookie deal. So the fact that we have that option now for these kids, they don't have to rush to the NFL. You know, like, if you're if you're a football player, you, in my opinion, your goal should be getting into the NFL is as fast as you know that you'll get a good draft spot because you have you're risking so much. Every single college game you play could be the last football game of your life. You have this one opportunity, like you got to go make the money for your for your skill set, you got to go live that out. But now that they don't have to do that, Like, over the course of time, are we gonna get better product? Are we gonna get quarterbacks who like Jane Daniel Jaye Daniels played Infinity college games and look look what happened. Bo Nicks played Infinity college games, came in was pretty close to pro ready almost immediately. And then the guys who don't have nearly enough experience. You know, Anthony Richardson, he's really really struggling. Trey Lance had basically a season and a half or so of experience. Dude, that guy's gotten what five NFL starts. They don't have to rush in. It will change things for us because we when we're evaluating for fantasy football, you know, one of the things that is a signal is we love these players who would declare early because like, oh man, if you're declaring early and you know you're gonna be a first round pick, it's because you're so dominant and you're just gonna get even better as you get older. But if you can dominate at this young age, the outlook for your career. It's a check mark in your favor. But now that these guys don't have to force their way into the NFL, we'll still get early ones. But I'm saying quarterback especially, it would be so great if we can have these players stay really developed, learn how to play the position properly. Because we have such a shortage. We don't even have enough good quarterbacks to fill the NFL. If we can get more possibilities because of what's going on with the money, I'm going to be thrilled.
00:31:25
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a good take.
00:31:26
Speaker 2: I like it.
00:31:26
Speaker 4: And you look at our lists, you know, in the production profiles on the site, you know like cam Ward senior, sh Or Sanders senior, Jalen Milroe junior, Jackson Dark Quinn, Yours, Will Howard, Dylan Gabriel, Riley Leonard all seniors this year.
00:31:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of seniors.
00:31:39
Speaker 4: Oh Knicks last year, Michael Pennox, you know, like all these guys are staying around so much longer. Yeah, it makes sense. And I think when you've seen some of these guys struggle so much in their career, you do kind of wonder, like what could have been if they did have another season in college to just really get their feet wet and learn another system or what have you. So I definitely like that take, and I'm interested to see what it does because every year when we get to like week I don't know, fourteen in the NFL, you're like, Okay, here's the bad quarterback play again and it's just these random dudes starting a quarterback. So if we can get that to go away, that would be w lovely.
00:32:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, it'd be great.
00:32:14
Speaker 3: Right now, the two that have separated in the process of sder Sanders and cam Ward and cam Ward even the last week or so in terms of betting, Oz, which isn't everything, has been the clear favorite at number one overall. Who knows if the Titans stay there. They got my my buddy, my my fellow Borg, Mike Borganzi as their GM. No relation, but the dudes' wheeling and dealing like he came out.
00:32:39
Speaker 2: No relation. Our last names are in effect not the same at all Borg. They just have Borg. So do you claim the Borgs from Star Trek? No?
00:32:49
Speaker 3: No, not at all, not even close. They're they're gone from the family tree. Uh, it will be interesting to see what the Titans do because I feel kind of bad for Brian Callahan, but also like, dude, you stepped into a situation you knew who your quarterback was, like you understood, and it was very clear that it wasn't going to work out and that they had just a train wreck of a season.
00:33:16
Speaker 2: I mean, just yeah, but you got to make a move sometimes or otherwise you're Bobby Slowik and you you waited out your your opportunity, your opportunity for being a head coach is now gone as like it's years away.
00:33:30
Speaker 3: Oh no, do you think Bobby's going to go all the way to community college coach?
00:33:33
Speaker 1: Now?
00:33:34
Speaker 2: No, I think that he will find himself a job. And I'm saying in terms of being a head coach after you've been had that back to back years of just falling apart as an OC and then you get fired like you're you're gonna be struggling. Yeah.
00:33:51
Speaker 3: So at the top, I mean, we know there's a bunch of quarterback needy teams and maybe this is kind of the issue of playing fantasy football, playing dynasty fantasy football, where we're trying to fit players into here's where they go in our drafts, and then you look at the NFL teams you go it seems from all the boards that there's too many teams that need a quarterback, but not enough actually talented quarterbacks to go there. I mean the defensive lineman in this draft, and you'll see in every single mock it's like that's where the talent is in this draft. It's very very heavy towards ed rushers, if defensive tackles, I mean, Abdul Carter from Penn State is the best player in the draft. He should go number one. He's a monster him or Travis Hunter, and yet one of these teams is going to take a quarterback. Cam Ward seems to have separated himself so far as the one that people like more. But there's people that love Shedur Sanders and love his He just kind of has a natural throwing motion. From everything I've watched so far, it's like it just feels effortless and clean. However, the dude got the crap kicked out of him, just so many sacks over and over again. Part of that's the line, part of it's him. But it seems like these two have kind of separated themselves. While Milroe is a really fun fantasy projection if he can somehow get his starting job, He's kind of a fringe first round pick right now based on what we're seeing. But I think overall, like last year, we knew we had four or five names and super flex strap that you're like, Okay, I want these dudes. This year, there's still a lot up in the air, And so my question for you guys is beyond just the teams, cause we're gonna start putting those together. You're gonna see mock drafts where people are copying off each other's paper over and over and over again. That's basically what this is for the next couple of months. But do you feel like where we're at in this process, like this past year's class is like helping these dudes a lot, Like is it helping our outlook for fantasy?
00:35:50
Speaker 4: I don't know if I fully follow what you mean by that, because like last year's class, like Caleb was viewed as the dude, and Jayden had his supporters, don't get me wrong, and he was very highly coveted and people love Drake May But like when you look at some of the and this isn't the best way to do it. But when you look at some of like the consensus big board rankings, like Daniel Jeremiah has his PFF has THEIRS, the thirty third team, the Athletic with Dan Brugler, like all these guys that kind of have their opinion, Like Shador is all over the map. Like I saw his low as like forties to ten, top ten, So I don't know how the NFL is going to view him. I think because of the weak quarterback class, he will go in the first round, no question. But it's just like you know, even cam Ward has his holes, right, like he had to transfer a couple of times to get to Miami. So and then you've got Jalen Milroe who seems like a project as a thrower but has fun rushing upside. And then you go from like Jackson Dart down and there's really not a lot of home run picks here. So I think last year's class, I don't know if it helps these guys, but I think the general weakness of quarterback helps the top two in cam Warden Shadow Sanders. If that makes sense.
00:36:58
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so what we're what I was more saying is that because of the production we saw from guys like bo Nix, older older quarterbacks, and you could see them translate right away. Like Mike was saying earlier, like this is a different landscape. I have to take everything that I knew about twenty three and twenty four year old quarterbacks and everything was like, oh, this dude's old. This isn't gonna work. To the NFL is okay with this, And then in fantasy I can actually be okay with seeing some of these players. Now the question is are they going to run enough? I mean, that's that's really all we really care about, is like, are these dudes gonna run the highest scramble rate among this class? Jackson Dart nine point three percent of his dropbacks. Next would be sder Sanders, and then Jalen Milrose. So I think if you're looking in this class and seeing who in the process moves up, Dart has moved up a ton in the last month from old miss and he's the youngest in the class, and he's also running a little bit. So he is interesting to me as a name just to kind of hold on to and say hey, over the next month or so, is there a team that really likes him and is he enter the conversation of first round quarterbacks? But Mike any any thoughts on quarterback?
00:38:07
Speaker 2: Uh? Just the you know, looking at the actual draft order, it is I think slightly optimistic, which is funny because you because of these teams have such a stench to them of just like when you think about that team now you think, oh, that's a that's a really bad team. It's like Tennessee who actually the offensive pieces, like they have some guy, like they have some playmakers. That Tennessee was a team last year that it was not uncommon to have people like you know what, I think that the Tennessee offense, I think it could actually be pretty good. Now that bet was on will Levis and that was the we hit the incorrect side of that bet, but like that that still stands true of like if you like the infrastructure and the players, that could work out. And Cleveland's kind of the same to me. Like I like Stefanski. I think that I think that he runs a good offense and when he has the a capable player back there at the quarterback position, we can get good stuff from from them. Now the Giants, I know, I'm like Malik is there, But I just I don't really have faith in the in the Giants organization at the moment. So it's that that's more of what it's going to be for these guys. If you if you don't run, how are what is the infrastructure around you? Do I like the coaching staff? Do I feel confident in them? It's not just about who are the players that you're going to be throwing to, because I mean see Caleb Williams, you know, quarterback drafted into the best possible fantasy spot we've ever seen with those three wide receivers, but the surrounding chaos of the team. It it took. The team went down and Caleb Williams went down with it as as a rookie. So I'm cautiously optimistic for the landings of the Titans and the Browns.
00:40:02
Speaker 3: I'll say this about uh Shader Sanders. He kind of has the same bugaboo so far in my film watching as Calebi, which is I can make things happen, but sometimes holding onto the ball and creating stuff is like it's a trump card in high school and college because you're better than everybody else. In the NFL, we look at guys that hold on the ball too long, as like, ah, this is not going to work out very well. You don't have that kind of time. So that's one thing that I mean, he's accurate, so you can overcome those things. But Caleb, Caleb's season was all over the map. And my biggest takeaway and my thing that I remember most is just like, dude, you are trying to dance the entire time.
00:40:43
Speaker 2: He looked so uncomfortable where I mean, like the the the comparison of Caleb to Jane and Daniels, it's like Daniels, he just he even when he's getting rushed, he didn't appear flustered. Now mentally maybe he was, but considering where he got in the playoffs, you know, I think that that dude was not where Caleb Williams looked terrified after a couple of seconds in the pocket.
00:41:11
Speaker 4: Now, Kyle, do we have in the production profiles and in our data set? Are we implementing a VR training point for any of these guys after Jan's rookie year with the VR, I mean, that's got to be in that's gotta be in the model.
00:41:26
Speaker 3: Mike, Mike heads up that department.
00:41:28
Speaker 4: Okay, Mike, Yeah, on it.
00:41:29
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm gonna look into it, but it's hard enough getting these guys actual correct like birthday. For some reason, these these things are dude, what's going on here? Like why are these things top secret? If you're going in the NFL, everyone's gonna know your birthday in a month, like it's going to be reported. It's it's it's it's it's very strange that it's so strange to me this whole thing of that you your birth your true age is not out there. You're they like you get listed two inches taller than you are, ten pounds heavy. You're like, it's so weird to me that stuff that's such a foreign world. I can't understand it.
00:42:10
Speaker 3: It is a fun little chase for me to like hunt down everybody's birthday because sometimes they're literally not listed anywhere, and I mean like anywhere on the internet. I've tried to go as many places. One player who I just like saying his name by shehll touton of Virginia Tech. I didn't I didn't know if we'd bring up his name, but I found out his birthday from finding on Twitter when Virginia Tech said it was his birthday. And then having to backtrack until like figure out the days from there. That's how I figured out his birthday. He's old by whatever you gotta do. Yeah, let's talk about running backs because there's one name which you've probably been hearing about for a year. It's Ashton Genty of Boise State, and right now, based on most mock drafts, which like I said earlier, everybody at some point is participating in a group think we've all been a part of it. He seems like he's going somewhere in the top twenty. A lot of people and I mean a lot of people have them with Dallas, which makes sense to me, but also we're just copying. It seems like we're getting first round draft capital though, and that's significant, and he's going to join that list of one oh one running backs for most people at this point in the process. And it's hard to argue because the things that translate from college are did you get yards and touchdowns? That's like, I mean, running backs is almost the least complicated from a production profile standpoint, and then we kind of try to figure out what scheme do they fit in, what type of runner are they are? They do they have a pass catching profile, but like he's there, and then there's a bunch of other dudes that I think are really interesting for early day two. I'm not really seeing anybody else entering that first round conversation. But early day two, I mean, I probably have two or three names that I'm kind of excited about. Like I'm excited to have a running back at around that one oh five, one oh six, one oh seven range in rookie draft that like they're a good prospect and the landing spot matters. But like last year, we were throwing darts at running back.
00:44:07
Speaker 2: And you saw that, Oh it was brutal.
00:44:09
Speaker 3: With so many rookies. Like I was going back through it was like what I thought at the time is I'm just gonna hit with one of these guys. It's gonna be Benson, it's gonna be Brooks, Marshaun, Lloyd. One of these dudes is gonna hit And none of them did, Korum whoever. But this year feels a lot different and Betts, do you feel that way so far?
00:44:26
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a lot of names that I'm definitely intrigued that I think we'll go somewhat early on day two. And what I mean by like early is like top like sixty ish overall picks like a Marion Hampton, Travon Henderson, Caleb Johnson's getting a lot of love Camp Scottaboo. Maybe we'll see quinchn Judkins. Like there's a lot of names that you know, they're not perfect prospects, like you know, other guys that we've seen maybe Gent, but it's definitely like genty at the top, and then this kind of group of like four or five that you you know, can put in whatever order. But like those guys are getting enough buzz right now for early round two that you definitely have to have them on radar. And obviously, like you said, landing spot matters a ton, But that's kind of the overall view of the classes. It's it's Gent's world. We're all just living in it. And then like that little group of like four and then from there some fun sleepers. But of course those guys are all low probability bets that you know we'll go in round three through six or seven.
00:45:19
Speaker 3: Yeah, Mike, you were looking through some of their production profiles and you know we'll have all that in the Dynasty Pass. But like there's some guys on there. Caleb Johnson of Iowa his Dominator rating fifty two percent. That's wild.
00:45:30
Speaker 2: It's ridonculous for and it's for what we see watching him, Like I had to, he's he's a very difficult evaluation of uh because his offensive line when you're watching him, the offensive line is so tremendous, you know, and you're like, that's really helping him. But it's when I was watching, I had to stop myself from almost feeling negative because it looks so effortless for him, like it and it's like, oh no, maybe he's just so good that it looks like it's easy, where like when you it just running style right, you know, watching Hampton, you know violence, you know, like you trying to use power and all this stuff, and it just it looks you're like, oh man, that guy's really working, almost like watching like when you watch Aaron if you're old enough to have watched Aaron Foster run like the dude, it didn't look hard and yet he was awesome, so it does. It doesn't have to look hard. It was anyway. Just one of my one of my takeaways so far of watching these guys at the high level of that guy is he is very smooth and his production profile is as green as you can possibly get in every single category and market share percentage that we care about. So I mean that that success, if you get draft capital with that guy, that it's gonna feel like that'll feel really good to have a mid or early first round pick.
00:47:06
Speaker 3: Yeah, these guys, Like I'm also looking at this class compared to last year, even two years ago, where we had a bunch of itty bitty, itty bitty boys. As Jason would say, it's like we had a Chan, we had all these other guys that are just like ah man, they're so small, and you know, a lot of these guys might be boosted a little bit in their profiles, but we're talking a lot of running backs that are above two hundred and around that five eleven six foot range where it's like you profile as the type of running back in our metrics that like you can be a three down workhorse, and a lot of these guys also have the pass catching to go with it. So you just look at a lot of prospects that you know right now you might have a favorite where you're like, oh, I like Caleb Johnson of Iowa more than Amaran Hampton and Hampton reminds me a lot of Javonte who also went there was like a tackle breaking machine. And then you have the Ohio State guys Treveon Henderson and quin Shawn Jenkins formerly of Old Miss, who just won a national championship, and they're both probably gonna be Day two picks. So it kind of just depends on your flavor. But I think the top five to six running backs, like, I think there's a lot there where we didn't have that a year or two ago.
00:48:15
Speaker 2: So yeah, well, I mean last year it was if you had running backs in your first round, which you did, was it was two you know, it was it was Brooks at like the one five, one O six, and then Benson a couple picks later, but it was but everything was, h I'm drafting this player and I have to wait, which waiting on waiting on a first round pick is Sometimes it's like it can be worth it. It just perceptually that feels rough, like if I'm taking if I'm drafting you with a first round rookie pick, I expect that I could put you in as a flex at the very least, unless I'm it's a quarterback and I'm waiting on you to develop, but to have a guy where you you know, you can't even reliably play them, I mean Trey Benson especially, of like I'm waiting, I'm waiting to see if James Connor has fallen apart if he gets an injury and no, he did not get those things he got in an extension and no, and noll Trey Benson pick plus the unfortunate Jonathan Brooks retear of his acls. Like those those are depth picks, like Trey Benson great to have on your bench, but that's a he's a depth player.
00:49:31
Speaker 4: Yeah, and just for context too, like an NFL draft, obviously Jonathan Brooks was the first one taking, but that wasn't until in the forties. Overall, no other running back went in round two. So it was just like man from the start, it just kind of felt and.
00:49:42
Speaker 2: Then two and the third or was it yeah, three in the third?
00:49:45
Speaker 4: Benson who was the third? Who's the third?
00:49:48
Speaker 2: Koran was in the third?
00:49:49
Speaker 4: Lloyd Marshall Lloyd.
00:49:50
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:49:50
Speaker 4: So just like the class was not great going in and we were all kind of like hoping they would be and they weren't. But this class I think definitely has some guys.
00:49:59
Speaker 2: That get far more excited at this point of the process than I was for last year for the running back position.
00:50:06
Speaker 3: Yeah, so there's just four in the top one hundred and well in the first three rounds, so I would say we're gonna get five six maybe, which is just you know, loads more and then what do we do with Cam Scataboo. That's a fun conversation. I'm excited when we get to that film, not just because he's Arizona State guy and you guys have some thoughts, but he's just fun.
00:50:30
Speaker 2: I was watching him this morning and I sent over my I don't really do player comps, like, that's not my specialty. Some people you know, oh watching that player that reminds me of so and so that's not My brain doesn't work like that. But Cam Scataboo, it came to me perfectly. It was so clear that he is General Trag from the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. He was the leader of the of the Rock Soldiers whatever they were Rock Soldiers. So if you are of our age and you know that reference, you know that that thing is incredible and that is exactly who Camp's Kataboo is. As as he looks like it. He looks like a block, and he that he plays like a block. He is.
00:51:15
Speaker 4: It's a perfect compy.
00:51:17
Speaker 2: His film is so incredibly fun, and then his production profile is out of control. It's out of control dominant so him. If we could get at least third round draft capital for Scataboo, that'll be very exciting, don't That will be devastating for there's players that we fall in love with at this point who have everything we're looking for. Like, I think he looks pretty good on a film, he's got this production profile, and then they get literally undrafted, like these things happen. So figures will be crossed that we get someone to believe in Skataboo.
00:51:54
Speaker 3: All right, let's take quick break and then we'll come back wide receivers. All right, moving on to wide receivers, we'll talk Titans two. The class seems a little bit like we're wishfully thinking that there's more in here. And when you think about last year, we had the first round guys that just crushed Brian Thomas, Junior Blik neighbors, and even we gave some context around Marv of like, hey, for a rookie season, this was good for redraft. We were definitely stained of what we thought it was this year, depending on what you want to do with Travis Hunter, we already talked about that. Behind him true wide receivers, it's Ted Roha McMillan of Arizona, who is a monster of a man. I don't think he'll come in at six ' five, but he's tall. And then behind him, it's a bunch of guys that I have a lot of question marks about, and that's probably in this process I'm starting my wide receiver film. I have a list of questions, and my first question is like, how many wide receivers go in the first round? My initial guests and I kind of do this bets and I do this process where we ask questions and then each month we update the chart. Right now, I would guess four wide receivers go in the first round, which feels like not a lot. I would put the line at like three and a half.
00:53:23
Speaker 2: And that is that counting Hunter as a wide receiver.
00:53:26
Speaker 3: That's not counting Hunter, Okay, that's me putting him as a as a cornerback. So in that sense, it feels like the class is short sighted, and so you're gonna have a lot of dudes where you take them at the one oh seven or one o eight and they end up being, hey, this guy got second round draft capital by the Chiefs. It's sky Moore. I think it's gonna work like that's that's who's gonna get boosted up. Though that's just traditionally what happens in Dynasty. So what are you se y'all's initial takes of just looking at the crop of players we have and saying, like, does it feel like there's there's shit be more here? Especially wide receiver is the position in Dynasty that we fall in love with, and I feel like we're gonna be left wanting a little bit. I'm not trying to be a Debbie downer, but it's like, there's not as much here as last year.
00:54:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, the I mean you just have the the casual like you just take a casual buzz of wide receivers, you know, of like when when Marv, when Jamar Chase are coming into the league like that it breaks through to people who aren't diehards of following NCAA football, and we like Jenti he broke through. I mean like we casuals know who he is, even if you don't you don't know where he goes to school. You're just like, oh, I've heard that name, and I heard that he's a running back who's having an incredibly great year. These when there's a superstar, we know about it generally before the h the year of it feels, you know, the uh, very like a like a Corey Davis type of a year. Now which the NFL they gassed him up, they tried. It was like Corey Davis, John Ross, and Mike Williams if I'm if I'm remembering it right, yeah, and Mike Williams is still playing football. But none of those guys ever turned into what you would imagine a top ten NFL wide receiver would would do. So and but going into that it was like, there're no one's really breaking through to be this. This is this is the guy. This is the guy that you got a top you got to draft him in the top five. Now you know t Mac is getting steam like that's gonna happen, and it would be pretty exciting, you know. I mean, if he ends up on the Patriots and you have that potential moving career of Drake May paired with with with t Mac, that would be exciting but other than that, Yeah, I think you're right there. It's this is more of a this is the running back draft. So if that's your position indeed, which is everybody, you should still be excited about your picks. Yeah.
00:56:09
Speaker 4: I think that's a good way to put it. It definitely does seem kind of top heavy and like two aspects where it's like, obviously we're still not sure on Travis Hunter, but like t Mac is like in his own tier of like the true X wide receiver of this class, bigger body guy can win at all three levels like that you would picture as a potential wide receiver one in the NFL. Then Luther Burden, he has his supporters, but he's been more of a slock guy and in college and it's like, okay, how does he fit and scheme wise? And then you go down to like Igbuka, Matthew Gordon, Isaiah Bond, you know, Trey Harris, those types of guys, and they all have their issues. There's some strengths obviously, but they all have some weaknesses too. Going back to last year's class, like you know, when we had the Big three as we were all calling them with Marvin Neighbors in Rome, it was like, these guys are clearly NFL talents, Like it's definitely gonna work, is what we all thought. And looking at this class, it's like I could see it on a couple of guys, but there's nobody that I think is a home run pick as of right now.
00:57:06
Speaker 3: It's also interesting I follow a lot of these, you know, mock draft database, like where the stock is going. So I have a list of here's where it was a month ago, and then now here's where it was a month later, and I and every single time I go, oh, did you play? Did you play in the college football Playoff? Because if you did, your stock is mostly up because that's what everyone just saw. So like, it's funny the Ohio State players, the Texas players, like their stock has gone to Matthew Golden was really good though against Arizona State, really good. He had four touchdowns the last two games. Isaiah Bond was a player who was listed up there and then his stock kind of went down based on what he did in college football Playoff. So just keep that in mind. Whatever you see in early January is a response to what did we see last and then once we get more information in February. The combine, you'll start to see things change. So just because the wide receivers listed, as you know, Isaiah Bond's like forty eighth overall and like he was a player that I had tons of concerns. And I also, I don't know if you guys do this. I just saw adan I Mitchell come from this program with the exact same issues of he doesn't get targeted a ton and this is how they use him. And then you saw Adana I Mitchell in the pros have the same issues, Like it's easy for me to do that. So I'm just letting you guys know I have a bias about Isaiah Bond. Uh already then I'm like, oh man, I need I'm just I'm putting it out there.
00:58:34
Speaker 2: Though I appreciate that you acknowledging it.
00:58:38
Speaker 3: Yeah, he also went to a rival high school around here that I don't like.
00:58:41
Speaker 4: Oh my god, he's sell you school, Kyle Kyle still keeping high school drama.
00:58:50
Speaker 2: How this guy dude grow up?
00:58:52
Speaker 3: Kyle Dude here in Georgia, it's a big deal.
00:58:56
Speaker 2: And just you know, then George and used to find some new things to have be a big deal. If you if twenty years later, you're you're still throwing back to Oh my good yes, Kyle, you're you're your twenty year reunion's got to be coming up.
00:59:14
Speaker 3: I was, let's see, I was, that's this year. Actually, I was, yeah, yeah, thank you, Mike, You're welcome. I might actually attend.
00:59:23
Speaker 2: No, don't go. It's just a big grift. No I have.
00:59:25
Speaker 3: I probably won't go. Uh but yeah, just name your bias. Put it that way, like if you watch that, yeah, that's fine. That's really my takeaway here and me.
00:59:33
Speaker 2: Don't worry, ladies and gentlemen, Me and Matthew Betts will give you fair take.
00:59:38
Speaker 4: I have no bias except for Tyler Warren is going to break football.
00:59:42
Speaker 2: Okay, let's yeah, yeah, there was, we got we have some biases.
00:59:46
Speaker 3: Let's talk about tight ends then, okay, transition over here. That was a good but Tyler Warren tight end from Penn State. He breaks a lot of things in the spreadsheets, and there's really like, I'm kind of excited about Titan this year. Beyond just Warren. We have Polston Loveland.
01:00:06
Speaker 4: Great every year, Stephen Fantasy, It's gonna be great.
01:00:13
Speaker 3: Let me look at what Titans doing.
01:00:16
Speaker 2: This Okay, no, no, don't look at what the Titans have been doing. It's I'm the same. Thing's like cover guys. There's three guys who are good. That's it's all we'll ever get. That's all war will be allowed to have.
01:00:32
Speaker 3: I'm excited. Are you excited?
01:00:33
Speaker 2: Bet?
01:00:34
Speaker 4: There's some interesting guys in the class. I think back to last year, like obviously it was Bowers and it was Powers, right and yeah, like some people were like kind of interested by whoa, whoa.
01:00:46
Speaker 2: Whoa, whoa. I think you're leaving out. Uh, guy who caught fake punch with Washington Drive.
01:00:55
Speaker 4: That was a beautiful catch. And right as I was ready to do body control, I saw that in prime time and I was like, I'm back.
01:01:02
Speaker 2: I was ready to be out.
01:01:03
Speaker 4: No, I was because I was like, man, oh, they're definitely gonna resign Hurts and here comes Ben Sinnett on the fourth down play. Yes, that was great, but like obviously it was Bowers and then it was like we kind of like Ben Sinnett, maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. And then some people were like, oh, Theo Johnson. You know, he had the athletic profile, like maybe it could work. But like there was nobody behind Bowers that people were like, this is this is good, this is exciting, and I feel like in this plast there's like two or three names, you know, like Tyler, Warren, Colson Loveland is getting a lot of first round buzz. Harold Fannon Junior's production is insane. Three point seven point three point four is unormal. So like there's some guys that you're like, okay, like maybe, but again it's kind of the big two and of Warren and Loveland and then a lot of unknowns.
01:01:52
Speaker 3: Tidan is one of those positions that and and Mike, you're here, like you you've fall in love with a guy that you really really like at the position, and then you're kind of just like hold out hope because the trajectory is you can kind of wait on some of these dudes, like you're not always expecting everybody to be Bowers. But then I'm on this Maybe it's a Kyle Pitts thing too. I'm biased people where like is this player even a tight end? Is this guy even like lining up that way and on the field enough. Harold Fanon is one of those players where is he big enough to be a traditional inline guy? Is he and Evan Ingram type like. Those are the conversations that we'll be having over the next couple of months. But it seems like Warren's gonna be first, and Loveland is also has some great production stuff. He's also one of the younger players in this class, so it's at least something to start with. Where in the past we were just like throwing random darts like the Cole Comet year where he went first first, tighten off the board like it's a tough position, and I would say, this is more encouraging, That's all I'm saying, just encouraging.
01:02:57
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna let it happen.
01:02:59
Speaker 3: Are you just mad that Senate? The Senator?
01:03:02
Speaker 5: I know, are guys five receptions. We set the path man. We said, it is not year one. It is, in fact, not even the first half of year two.
01:03:14
Speaker 2: It is the second half of year two when when Ben Senate will show why he was drafted as the second tight end in that draft in the second round. The dude is. The dude's a monster. It just takes takes some time, have some patience, love it.
01:03:29
Speaker 4: I mean, is there a more obvious trade target right now than Ben Senate?
01:03:32
Speaker 2: No imagine not trading field get that.
01:03:36
Speaker 4: Yeah, trap wrap up tight ends here. But we also need to recognize too, like Bowers was an unbelievable prospect, Like, yes, I like Warren, I think Lovelin's very interesting. Those guys are not even close in terms of like the level of player coming into the NFL.
01:03:54
Speaker 2: So the reason Bowers went in the double digits is because of Kyle Pitts. Yeah, Like people saw the waste of They're like, whoa the tight end the top four? Like I really do. I think that team saw that and they got nervous to spend that high of a pick on on a tight end despite watching Brock Bauers do what he did. Be like, no, this dude isn't. This guy is an absolute freak and every team should be drafting him.
01:04:23
Speaker 3: Today, I was talking to Bets about Kyle Pitts as I usually do, and I just called him. He's bougie Mike get sicky. That's all he is. He's just a really bougie, expensive version of a hybrid wide receiver tight end. That's really neither of them.
01:04:38
Speaker 4: But the people are asking Kyle is he a second contract guy? Because he's entering the final year of his fifth year option here with Atlanta.
01:04:46
Speaker 3: Because they picked up his fifth.
01:04:49
Speaker 2: Yeah.
01:04:49
Speaker 4: I was working through I was working through Atlanta's team opportunity today for the Dynasty Pass, and I was like, man, this guy really saw fewer targets than Ray Ray McCloud last year, who no disrespect to Ray Rap, but had been a special teamer for his basically his entire season before this past year. It's like, man, maybe maybe Kyle pits just needs a change of scenery and a new team. I don't know, man, but yeah, that's right.
01:05:14
Speaker 3: I feel like there's gonna be a lot of people like on their deathbeds and they share their regrets in life. It's gonna be I took Kyle Pitts and then I just stayed with it. I he's gonna have one season, just like one season, like randomly, whatever team he's on, five years from now, he's been like, oh, that was a good PPR year. He was like the Titan six or seven.
01:05:33
Speaker 2: And then impossible.
01:05:35
Speaker 3: I know, all right, that's gonna do it for us. We're gonna start talking rookies, talking film, all that stuff, and you can find them in the Dynasty Pass that will be out Super Bowl Sunday. If you want to be a part of that, we'll be back next week and so well, Jason see.
01:05:49
Speaker 2: You then goodbye everybody.
01:05:56
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Fantasy foot Mullers Dynasty Podcast. If you want to take your dynasty skills to the next level, check out the Fantasyfootballers dot Com
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Fantasy Footballers Dynasty Podcast with Borg Bets and a Baller.
00:00:32
Speaker 2: Welcome back.
00:00:35
Speaker 3: We're here on the Fantasy Footballers Dynasty Podcast. I'm your host kab Organoni and I'm joined by Matthew Betts and Mike Right.
00:00:43
Speaker 4: Hello, fellas. I am. I kind of feel like this is like the start of the next phase of the Dynasty off season. Rookie talk. Finally, Philip, you've been kind of like saying, like, we'll get to it soon. You know, we'll get there soon. We're here, boys, it's officially time.
00:01:00
Speaker 3: It was like we're doing we're starting the two days and it's one of those things where the workouts you're like, oh, yeah, I'm going to do that, and then you actually have to get up and start working out. So we're working out together. That's why I'm looking at it.
00:01:14
Speaker 2: Yeah. So yeah, mental reps there we go.
00:01:17
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're in fine physical peak condition right now.
00:01:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, don't worry about that. Don't worry about that.
00:01:22
Speaker 3: Yeah, and these players we're going to talk about only great things. That's all we're going to hear about. We have Senior Bowl coming up, we have combine that's going to be happening. In about a month and a half, like only good things. And on this episode, we're mostly going to give an overview of the twenty twenty five rookies and kind of give our thoughts of how we see rookie picks sliding. Right now. I mean, we will have, you know, Super Bowl Sunday, our first rookie mock draft. But I think I enjoy that it's a process over the next couple of months, Like I don't have to land at a final opinion of Jalen Milroe right now, which, by the way, the Alabama quarterback. I've watched him for years my family's Alabama fans. How that translates to the NFL is a different conversation. And what I see on film what the production profile says, his very small hands that I've already been told he has tiny hands.
00:02:17
Speaker 2: Well like uh, like Austin Eckler. Did you guys catch that Tom Brady putting Eckler in a in a bodybag broadcast fumble? After the fumble, he was like, that's one of the knocks on Austin Eckler. He's got really small hands, just like whoa Tom Tom Like Eckler is so far along in his career. We don't even talk about how big his hands are. He yes, he fumbled in a really big moment, but why you gotta be like, what an idiot fumbling? Also, his hands are so small and embarrassing.
00:02:54
Speaker 4: Uh, it is hand sign season, you know, it's that time he is yes, it is yes what you're referring to. Kyle Islan Milroe weighed in at the Senior Bowl official measurements eight point I think six to eight inch chance, which for context, Kenny Pickett was like the poster boy of the last you know, five six, seven years of like the Small Hands Award. He was eight and a half inchance. So not the best start for Milroe here in the process.
00:03:18
Speaker 2: I know.
00:03:19
Speaker 3: I will say that as a Falcons fan, a lot of things were made about Michael Pennox in his hands and they are massive, Like his fingers are incredibly big. When you look at him holding the football and he holds it a little different, especially as a lefty, it just comes out different than everyone else. So when you see like a tight spiral for Michael Penix, you go, oh, that kind of makes sense. But there's also things that we just overvalue. One of the things we'll talk about too for combine season. Is there certain events that we tend to overvalue and double count. We'll say, this guy's you know he did this, but we fail to look at what he did in the three cone drill or whatever and what actually translates. So we'll talk about some of that as we get closer of like, okay, what actually matters are These are really fun measurements. It's really fun to get data points, I think, just to talk about. And sometimes we go a little too far down the rabbit hole, Like I know there will be a point where I'm in the spreadsheets and you guys got to pull me out. You guys got to make sure that I don't go too far.
00:04:18
Speaker 2: You get lost. I get lost in lost dem sheets, lost.
00:04:24
Speaker 3: In looking at things that I think might matter, and then three or four months down the road, I go, now, what did I do with that spreadsheet? Where is that thing? Like there are so many dead Google spreadsheets out there.
00:04:36
Speaker 2: We're all looking for the golden ticket though, we're looking for that one piece of information, that one statistic there where you're like, I did it. I found the god particle that tells us exactly who's going to be good in the NFL. So that's yeah, of course we're going to be chasing that dragon. It's impossible, but we're all gonna chase. Yeah.
00:04:53
Speaker 4: Off season Kyle is a special breed. I mean, I can't tell you any amount of text I get or slack messages, sometimes even a phone call where he's like, bets, I don't I'm not sure if this matters. But I'm I've been, I've been. You called me once and you were talking to me like, I really like this idea of like third downs running backs, they might not matter that much, man. And this is when we we had the twins. Okay, so I'm like sleep deprived. It's like the middle of summer. I'm like, Kyle, dude, I appreciate your effort here, Like I just I'm not there with you right now, buddy, leave me alone. But off season, Kyle, he will he will dig for the stats that matter to only him, and maybe they matter for us. We'll find out. But I think I think your point is fair, Kyle, and just that like these prospects, we're gonna collect data points along the entire way, starting with the Senior Bowl, all the production profiles, the combine the NFL Draft and trying to figure out like what actually matters. I think is so important for some of these guys because you can get stuck on one piece of the puzzle, but if you don't have it all together, then sometimes it doesn't matter.
00:05:49
Speaker 3: I will say, if that is the one phone call that I that I made, and I've talked to you a couple other times on the phone.
00:05:55
Speaker 4: But you've called me before. Otherwise, it was about that sticks out.
00:05:59
Speaker 3: That was a very very big moment in my career. I wrote a big article on that, so it got nominated for research articles. So maybe that's what I need to do. But I'm I'm gonna reserve that for just a special moment. Maybe I won't even have one. The off seas, we'll see the twenty twenty five Dynasty Pass, which is part of the Ultimate Draft Kit. Plus we'll be out on Super Bowl Sunday. We're taking pre orders right now and if you want to get at the lowest possible price, now is the time our production profiles. We're working through every single team. I just finished the AFC East and man, going through the Dolphins was painful. Did you guys know that the Dolphins wide receivers had the fewest receiving touchdown of any group in the NFL this year.
00:06:44
Speaker 2: That makes sense. I felt that olt it a lot last year.
00:06:48
Speaker 3: It was it was really bad. You didn't see the big plays. But I also got to break down that team in their contract situation. So that's all there, and the team opportunities in the Dynasty Pass, Mike. We just updated so some of our production profiles, some of the running backs we're going to talk about today. They look pretty strong, but that'll be out very soon.
00:07:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, the uh, well we'll start talking some data here, but yes, the it's very encouraging to see these, uh the market trends. And when we say a production profile, if you're new to that, we're essentially, you know, like comparing what one of these these kids did in college, like how much of their h the teams running back, their rush yards, they're the rushing touchdowns, the receptions, things like that. Then comparing that to players that are in the NFL that we know are good, that are good for fantasy. What did they do in college, like so just you know, they're building up their profile so we can have at least something to compare two pros. Because I mean, you you're never one hundred percent sure how a rookie's going to do in the NFL till they start taking snaps. Marvin Harrison Junior. Uh So, even when when guys look fantast we just we need all the all the information we can to make the best probability guess, because it is a guess, but it is you're you're trying to build that probability in your side.
00:08:11
Speaker 3: You can get all that at ultimate draftkit dot com or you're feeling spunky dynastypass dot com, which you.
00:08:17
Speaker 2: Know, Oh, all the u r ls.
00:08:20
Speaker 3: All of them, all of them. I did want to start this off with a little bit of a game.
00:08:29
Speaker 1: I want to play a game.
00:08:34
Speaker 3: I know that music is terrifying for bets. Mike, you like games on the show, right.
00:08:39
Speaker 2: I do. Well. Usually a game ends up the like one of one of your takes or one of your held beliefs is made to look stupid because we we like to uh compare players that you think are great to players that you think are not, and then you find out that they're like exactly the same statistically.
00:09:00
Speaker 4: Kyle's goal there is to make us look like the idiots today.
00:09:02
Speaker 2: Mike, Yes, yeah, So well, yeah, I'm sure we'll look the fool.
00:09:06
Speaker 3: Yeah, so this is gonna be best Fine versus Mike. So you guys are gonna kind of compete against each other two fools. One of you will look dumb and I will both, and I'm gonna look really smart for coming up with these questions. But all right, this is rookie Draft trivia. So if you're listening, you can actually play along with us, and you're probably just shouting the entire time, you know the answers. But I'm gonna give us five questions and you guys get points if you get them correct. And it's looking over the past decade or so. I'm gonna more skew towards recent because once you get to the twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen, I know you have a good memory, but I wanted us to talk about what we thought at the time. So rookie draft ADP in Dynasty rookie drafts, and you know, some of these will be really good talking points of oh yeah, that's exactly what happened, but we're gonna talk mostly ADP here. So where did these players go in their rookie drafts? The first question for you guys, it's kind of a back and forth affair. It's kind of to see if you guys can keep up. But last year we did not have a running back go one oh one in one quarterback drafts. Right like, it wasn't even considered. Jonathan Brooks would have been the first one off the board. But over the last decade, we have had a lot of running backs go one oh one, and it seems like this year Ashton genty will be another person we out of that mix. I want you guys to go back and forth over the last decade and name running backs who went one oh one in rookie drafts. And I will just say, going all the way back, there's one year where a wide receiver could have gone. It's kind of split. But before that one, before this past year, guys, it's basically been every year since twenty fifteen that a running back in one quarterback drafts was drafted.
00:10:53
Speaker 2: For back am I supposed to go?
00:10:55
Speaker 3: You can go all the way back to twenty fifteen. You don't have to go in order. I just want to see if you guys can can name them off the top of your head. So I will let Mike go first, and then Betts will go and you just name one at a time and we'll see if we can who's left stand.
00:11:09
Speaker 2: That was the layup, Clydewards lay That's why I took it.
00:11:13
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was Clyde Edwards layer or JTT depending on the site.
00:11:18
Speaker 4: Uh zeke zeke yes, hm h Josh Jacobs.
00:11:26
Speaker 3: Josh Jacobs did go one on one in some leagues. Nikhil Harry went one on one that year, but it was Jacobs. Naji Nase did go one on one. That was a year where Jamar Chase also was in consideration a lot of leagues, but Nase is part of that group. There's two really big names that uh that might be on your radar recent history.
00:11:46
Speaker 2: Hm hmm.
00:11:47
Speaker 4: This is where I'm getting stumped because I had I had Nase in there too.
00:11:52
Speaker 2: I gotta kicks. Those were the five that I could pull off the top of my head. Recent Oh oh oh uh Bijon Oh obviously Jean jon and Breece.
00:12:04
Speaker 3: And Breece would be another if you want to go back even further. Uh, in that Fame twenty seventeen class, Leonard Fournette would have been taken at the very top. He was one oh four in the NFL draft, and then if you go all the way back to uh twenty sixteen, Todd Gurley was also taken at the very very top. So, going all the way back over the last decade, guys, it's been running backs at the top, and this past year it wasn't that so point for Mike right there?
00:12:33
Speaker 2: All right?
00:12:35
Speaker 3: In one quarterback league's where did Treylon Burks go in rookie drafts? Burke's closest person gets the point. This is twenty twenty two.
00:12:48
Speaker 2: I'm gonna do you want to guess? First? Bet sure?
00:12:51
Speaker 4: I was going to say the one oh three.
00:12:56
Speaker 2: One o five.
00:12:58
Speaker 3: Oh, you guys split the difference. It's one o four.
00:13:01
Speaker 4: Where he was without going over point for bets.
00:13:05
Speaker 3: And just to give you some context, some guys who went after him that draft olave O lave, Garrett Wilson, Jameson Williams, and then you had like Sky Moore, Christian Watson, Pickens, James Cook. Uh So, yeah, I feel like you guys just can't see each other out on that one.
00:13:25
Speaker 2: That's fine, Yeah, I agree, all right?
00:13:27
Speaker 3: Next question here, where did Lamar Jackson go in super flex leagues? Back in twenty eighteen? So if you remember, Lamar was drafted the very end of the first round by the Ravens. There were five quarterbacks taken in that draft. Where did he go in super flex leagues?
00:13:46
Speaker 2: Man, my super flex knowledge is not strong for back that far, but I would guess I mean, like in single quarterback leagues, Lamar was was like later embarrassingly late for for who Lamar Jackson has become, uh super flex. I will guess that he went like, uh two oh one, okay, bets, I'll go that late.
00:14:15
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm just thinking back to like the general media view of Lamar, which was like you might have to convert, you know, I don't know if he can play a quarterback like that was like the thing in the NFL draft back.
00:14:26
Speaker 2: Then, and and Flacco was still yeah, like so I think there was still a lot of stake around Lamar at that at that class.
00:14:33
Speaker 4: I was gonna say like two o five, all.
00:14:35
Speaker 3: Right, he went at the one oh seven. Oh, I had a little bit of steam, but still even one o seven right now, we're like that sounds insane, Like why did this guy not.
00:14:43
Speaker 2: For a for a quarterback draft in the first round?
00:14:46
Speaker 3: That's wild, right, Like if you just think of what Jade Daniels was, who's very much a Lamar comp and you're like, oh, well he was gonna go one o two in most super flex leagues. It's crazy. Also that year, just his little bonus trivia, Josh Allen went as the QB five at two O five.
00:15:03
Speaker 4: Wow, like GoF the two of five? Right, ron guy, you.
00:15:07
Speaker 3: Get you get no points. I award you no points and may God have mercy, thank you. Okay, next question is this is a fun one. Is in honor of Jason, who is a more. Put these Moors in order of their rookie A d P Okay. So these guys went in different years, but we've had a lot of Moors wide receiver.
00:15:27
Speaker 2: So Sky early to late.
00:15:29
Speaker 3: Yeah, Sky Moore, Elijah Moore, Rondeale Moore, and DJ Moore.
00:15:36
Speaker 2: Where did the Moors go? Let me shot these down.
00:15:42
Speaker 3: That's if you got a guess put them you can put them in order first.
00:15:44
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'll take a stab at it.
00:15:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, go ahead, bets.
00:15:48
Speaker 4: I think it was Sky, then DJ, then Elijah, then Rondelle.
00:15:56
Speaker 2: I'm going DJ Sky, Rondeal, Elijah.
00:16:00
Speaker 3: Oh so is DJ Sky, Elijah Rondale in that?
00:16:05
Speaker 2: So I just I just got the last two wrong.
00:16:07
Speaker 3: You got last two wrong, bets, I got the first two right.
00:16:09
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:16:09
Speaker 3: So DJ went at one oh five. Sky More famously went at one oh eight. I'm sure a lot of people are just burned that pick. Elijah Moore at two three.
00:16:18
Speaker 2: You know who else burned that pick?
00:16:19
Speaker 4: The Kansas City Chiefs also true.
00:16:23
Speaker 3: Uh also super Bowl champ, two times Super Bowl champ. Sky Moore and Rondell went at two oh five. Another funny pick. If you just go back through rookie picks. All right, one more here, and I'm pretty sure Mike's winning.
00:16:35
Speaker 2: Yes, I could be wrong, I'm one hundred percent sure.
00:16:37
Speaker 5: All right, Poka, it's already done.
00:16:42
Speaker 3: Was drafted as the wide receiver? What in rookie drafts that year? So not the NFL draft, but in rookie drafts? What number wide receiver was he drafted?
00:16:53
Speaker 2: Us? I mean he was if he were draft it's either in the late third or in the fourth. The he went undrafted in plenty. I'm gonna go I will give him like wide receiver fifteen is no, that's not even enough. I look at wide receiver twenty. I don't know.
00:17:19
Speaker 4: I was gonna say Fifteen is the number that literally was in my head the whole time, and then you said it, and I was like, wait, if you didn't even get drafted half of these leagues, there's no way that's possible. So yeah, somewhere around around twenty is what I would say too.
00:17:30
Speaker 3: It was fifteen.
00:17:31
Speaker 4: We might be are so smart?
00:17:34
Speaker 3: It so wide receivers that went ahead of Pooka you might have heard of before, Jonathan Mingo, Jalen Hyatt, Cedric Tillman, that's fine, tank Dell Keisham, Butte Michael Wilson went as wide receiver fourteen.
00:17:48
Speaker 2: On appage, which, look, I'm fine with all these Why Michael Wilson was a Day two pick, right?
00:17:53
Speaker 3: And I think going through this and just looking at the data, and we have some articles on the side if you want to look at them, just here's what happen into rookie drafts. Here's some mistakes, here's some things we can learn. Is it's really easy to have hindsight analysis and say here's what happened, I'm so smarter, I'm so dumb, or whatever, But more of just seeing that there's a range of outcomes. Everybody's gonna try to find a pooka, and everyone tried to find this year's pooka and a lot of times they just don't exist. And that's okay. But looking back through some of this, I see like so many different evaluations that at the time I thought this player belongs here in rookie drafts, let's just where they go, and you kind of see a lot of group think of just like this guy's the one O eight, sky Moore is the one O eight, no matter what, and so many of those picks get burned. So we will have a lot of discussion over the next couple of months. But it was fun to go down memory lane. Mike, you're the champion bets not even close.
00:18:48
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was a poor performance on my part. Not proud, per expected.
00:18:54
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say your your win expectancy in games is non existent.
00:18:59
Speaker 4: I just I just I claim up. Man, I hear the in the drop and I just get nervous. My blood pressure shirt's going, so yeah, I just you know, completely falter under pressure.
00:19:09
Speaker 3: All right, Well, you got the off season, so start those two days and train up. Let's take a quick break. We'll be right back, all right. So it's that time of the year where we get to press reset. And we've done a lot of reviewing on this podcast talking about last year's rookies. So Brian Thomas Junior, Jane Daniels, I mean, Bucky Iring feels like one of those players that we just finished talking about him, but I kind of want to just keep talking about him over the next couple of weeks because he's just a fun player and his Dynasty values to the roof. So that's kind of what's fresh in my mind, and so it's kind of easy to take that and then turn that towards this year's rookies and go, Okay, look at these difference makers for fantasy. I know I'm going to find that or at least like take that feeling and want to put that on those players. So we're gonna talk about this year's class from a ten thousand foot view. How do you guys feel, what do you think about picks? What are you guys doing in your leagues? And maybe give some people some thoughts before we dive into the film. Ki Rookie, Welcome to the NFA. I like doing this podcast with you guys. Just just says an aside, Oh, thanks Kyle, but you didn't let me finish my point because because I think we're pretty honest with each other. Like when we go through the process, all three of us including Jason two, like we all look at these players on our own, Like I don't sit there and say, let's watch the exact same piece of film for cam Skataboo and just say this is what's gonna happen. Instead, we take our own process and then we all kind of combine it together and it kind of gives a well rounded approach. But I'm gonna be honest. There are some players that I feel like I know the name, I know some production stuff, and yet I haven't watched them on film yet. So part of this is gonna be an honest assessment and some questions of like here's where I'm at, here's what I would love to see going into the film, instead of us just saying like, here's everything about this player and I have a final opinion. So I'm assuming you guys haven't watched every player yet.
00:21:20
Speaker 2: Nope, No, I'm still at the higher level, but you know, getting into actual like I said, the production profiles and starting to grind the tape on these running backs.
00:21:30
Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely, we're still service level here, and we'll have episodes coming up where it's like strictly geared towards the quarterbacks, just the running backs, wide receivers, and tight ends. But yeah, I think as we turn the page and like this is kind of the start of it, it's always good to, I think, get a sense of just top level, like what does the NFL draft community think of these guys at the start, because things are gonna change over the next two months, but like, here's where guys might be protected to go. Here's what the kind of general NFL feels about these guys. And then we get to kind of add in our own analysis along the way, and as we get more data points, change our opinions. But yeah, I'm still very much service level on a lot of these guys. Obviously I've watched like the big names, but definitely haven't gotten into a lot of the guys that are projected to go round two or even later.
00:22:15
Speaker 3: I'm kind of excited for the slow burn and the reveal of Usually one of us will go like, hey, I got a guy. I'm not gonna tell you it is, but I got a guy, and so far I have one.
00:22:27
Speaker 2: Oh, you have already got a guy. I got a guy.
00:22:30
Speaker 3: That I'm surprised that I liked him more than I thought, like going to this process of go, oh, this is just the dude. Another name is gonna get thrown in, So I'm gonna let that just kind of slide. I'm not gonna even mention him on this podcast because I want to hear what you guys think when we get to that episode. But I will say this about this class just to give you some numbers. The twenty twenty five class is kind of top heavy. And if you just look at it right now, so we can look at NFL mock Draft database and they show us, hey, here's where people are drafted are mocked so far, and if you compare that to a year ago, we are kind of short on offensive skill position players quarterbacks, running backs, wide receivers, and Titans. There's only thirteen right now being mocked in the first two rounds. To just give you context, like going all the way back to twenty eighteen, we've had at least seventeen every single year and the average is about twenty, so twenty players in the first two rounds that we would say, hey, that's pretty good draft capital that you're taking in the first two rounds. I think the hardest thing to compare this year to last year is just there's a lot of question marks about wide receiver and I think right now, based on consensus, there's only two quarterbacks that'll go in the first round as of right now. That's like a pretty small pool. Where last year you think of what a late first round pick was, like you were getting lad McConkey towards the end of the first round, and even like Brian Thomas Junior would have slipped to like one oh six one oh seven in leagues. So I don't know, just from a standpoint, I'm giving people the advice that their later round first round picks are not as valuable as last year. Do you guys agree with me?
00:24:07
Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, things go ahead, but things can change, and you can always find a couple of diamonds in the rough and guys will gain steam in terms of like NFL Draft stock over the course of the next several weeks. That happens every year with a couple of guys. But just like thinking back to the context of last year's draft, like going into it, you knew that you had like we say this all the time, but like we use it way too much quote unquote generational talent level players of Marv and Caleb Williams, and these guys were like highlight reel plays coming out of school and you knew they would hopefully be great in the NFL. Like that's how we all viewed them, and that was kind of the start to finish view of them until we got to the NFL season. There aren't those guys in this class. Now Gent's his own thing and we'll talk about that, but like overall, you know, there's not a lot of publicly viewed, can't miss prospects really at any position maybe outside of Gent. So I think in general the class is weaker, and I agree with you. Because of that, you're not going to see as many first round talents and therefore, like once you get to probably i don't know, one oh seven ish, you're gonna be able to start to poke some holes in a lot of these guys. So yeah, I think in general, I agree with you. The back of first round of rookie drafts definitely is weaker than last year.
00:25:12
Speaker 2: And we have the like one of a player who should go in the top five. I mean, he is one of the favorites to go one oh one. Uh in the NFL draft. Travis Hunter is like, what how are they going to use it? Like, yeah, he he deserves to be there in the NFL draft because he's so versatile. But for us for doing fantasy is he being like, will he be drafted to be a cornerback and play some wide receiver? He's gonna be drafted to be a wide receiver, play some corner for both. I mean I I don't think we know exactly what's gonna happen to him, Like he is gonna he could possibly break a whole bunch of models out there because draft capital is so important to us, And you're like, yeah, but how about this wide receiver who's drafted one oh one, but then he plays cornerback. Don'ts that would be so wide that whole situations?
00:26:07
Speaker 4: Why if like over the course of you know till like April and May, all the news is like, hey, we're thinking we're thinking wide receiver with this guy, and you're like, okay, one o two, you pick him, and all of a sudden, you're like, actually, in training camp, we're thinking more cornerback. You just burn a top three rookie pick on a cornerback. Yeah, hopefully we're going to draft draft.
00:26:26
Speaker 2: Day when they when they're reading that out his position, we're all good. And if they say cornerback, we're all going to be devastated.
00:26:34
Speaker 3: It was I remember a couple of years ago when the Jaguars took Trevon Walker number one overall over Aiden Hutchinson. They announced him as a linebacker, which if you just think about it, I mean, his agent gets to like say, like, this is what he's worth. He's an edge guy, you know, and we think of linebacker's very different. Now, drafting a linebacker at one oh one sounds like a terrible pick based on today's NFL. So yeah, we're gonna be waiting on that. Daniel Jeremiah had a differing opinion and where he said, hey, I expect more wide receiver and I could be wrong on this, but that would be great just to give you some context. We'll go position by a position. But like, he is a wild card. We've never had anything like this, so we don't really have data points to say, here's what we did in rookie drafts in twenty seventeen based on this. But last year he was outside on ninety four percent of his snap. No other wide receiver among you this year's class played a higher percentage of their snaps out wide normally. We would say if you are just that, that's kind of like something to think about in the NFL. That doesn't always translate if you're only an outside guy. We like the versatility. The year before, sixty four percent of his targets were in the slot, so he can do both.
00:27:40
Speaker 2: He was just used a.
00:27:41
Speaker 3: Certain way, and I mean broke broke college football essentially. So I think all of us are just saying, like we're going to reserve our opinions until later with Hunter. Where if you're one of those people that has your picks and you're saying, what do I do unless your draft is in this next month, like no one, no one's making you make a decision right now, I would just say, in general, if you have an early pick, it's valuable and will only gain value. So don't like trade out because you think you're slotted to get Hunter or something like. Just stay the process and go with us. But let's start at quarterback. We've talked before how opinions can change drastically, like our the last couple of years. We've talked about Levis, We've talked about Malik Willis, we talked about last year, and we kind of used that as a well, these older quarterbacks, how does the NFL really feel about them? And then you see six quarterbacks taken early and for the most part, it was an awesome class, right it was. It was incredible.
00:28:41
Speaker 2: I have a some some side thoughts on that go for just there's just you know, philosophical hopes and dreams of the way that NIL works now for these college kids that they can all like make not all I'm sorry, the superstars whatever they're they're making really really good money. Like you're seeing the NIL deals of some of these kids getting announced and they're it's like, uh, I saw someone compared like this, this kid's gonna making more money than will Levis is going to be making off of his rookie deal. So the fact that we have that option now for these kids, they don't have to rush to the NFL. You know, like, if you're if you're a football player, you, in my opinion, your goal should be getting into the NFL is as fast as you know that you'll get a good draft spot because you have you're risking so much. Every single college game you play could be the last football game of your life. You have this one opportunity, like you got to go make the money for your for your skill set, you got to go live that out. But now that they don't have to do that, Like, over the course of time, are we gonna get better product? Are we gonna get quarterbacks who like Jane Daniel Jaye Daniels played Infinity college games and look look what happened. Bo Nicks played Infinity college games, came in was pretty close to pro ready almost immediately. And then the guys who don't have nearly enough experience. You know, Anthony Richardson, he's really really struggling. Trey Lance had basically a season and a half or so of experience. Dude, that guy's gotten what five NFL starts. They don't have to rush in. It will change things for us because we when we're evaluating for fantasy football, you know, one of the things that is a signal is we love these players who would declare early because like, oh man, if you're declaring early and you know you're gonna be a first round pick, it's because you're so dominant and you're just gonna get even better as you get older. But if you can dominate at this young age, the outlook for your career. It's a check mark in your favor. But now that these guys don't have to force their way into the NFL, we'll still get early ones. But I'm saying quarterback especially, it would be so great if we can have these players stay really developed, learn how to play the position properly. Because we have such a shortage. We don't even have enough good quarterbacks to fill the NFL. If we can get more possibilities because of what's going on with the money, I'm going to be thrilled.
00:31:25
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a good take.
00:31:26
Speaker 2: I like it.
00:31:26
Speaker 4: And you look at our lists, you know, in the production profiles on the site, you know like cam Ward senior, sh Or Sanders senior, Jalen Milroe junior, Jackson Dark Quinn, Yours, Will Howard, Dylan Gabriel, Riley Leonard all seniors this year.
00:31:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of seniors.
00:31:39
Speaker 4: Oh Knicks last year, Michael Pennox, you know, like all these guys are staying around so much longer. Yeah, it makes sense. And I think when you've seen some of these guys struggle so much in their career, you do kind of wonder, like what could have been if they did have another season in college to just really get their feet wet and learn another system or what have you. So I definitely like that take, and I'm interested to see what it does because every year when we get to like week I don't know, fourteen in the NFL, you're like, Okay, here's the bad quarterback play again and it's just these random dudes starting a quarterback. So if we can get that to go away, that would be w lovely.
00:32:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, it'd be great.
00:32:14
Speaker 3: Right now, the two that have separated in the process of sder Sanders and cam Ward and cam Ward even the last week or so in terms of betting, Oz, which isn't everything, has been the clear favorite at number one overall. Who knows if the Titans stay there. They got my my buddy, my my fellow Borg, Mike Borganzi as their GM. No relation, but the dudes' wheeling and dealing like he came out.
00:32:39
Speaker 2: No relation. Our last names are in effect not the same at all Borg. They just have Borg. So do you claim the Borgs from Star Trek? No?
00:32:49
Speaker 3: No, not at all, not even close. They're they're gone from the family tree. Uh, it will be interesting to see what the Titans do because I feel kind of bad for Brian Callahan, but also like, dude, you stepped into a situation you knew who your quarterback was, like you understood, and it was very clear that it wasn't going to work out and that they had just a train wreck of a season.
00:33:16
Speaker 2: I mean, just yeah, but you got to make a move sometimes or otherwise you're Bobby Slowik and you you waited out your your opportunity, your opportunity for being a head coach is now gone as like it's years away.
00:33:30
Speaker 3: Oh no, do you think Bobby's going to go all the way to community college coach?
00:33:33
Speaker 1: Now?
00:33:34
Speaker 2: No, I think that he will find himself a job. And I'm saying in terms of being a head coach after you've been had that back to back years of just falling apart as an OC and then you get fired like you're you're gonna be struggling. Yeah.
00:33:51
Speaker 3: So at the top, I mean, we know there's a bunch of quarterback needy teams and maybe this is kind of the issue of playing fantasy football, playing dynasty fantasy football, where we're trying to fit players into here's where they go in our drafts, and then you look at the NFL teams you go it seems from all the boards that there's too many teams that need a quarterback, but not enough actually talented quarterbacks to go there. I mean the defensive lineman in this draft, and you'll see in every single mock it's like that's where the talent is in this draft. It's very very heavy towards ed rushers, if defensive tackles, I mean, Abdul Carter from Penn State is the best player in the draft. He should go number one. He's a monster him or Travis Hunter, and yet one of these teams is going to take a quarterback. Cam Ward seems to have separated himself so far as the one that people like more. But there's people that love Shedur Sanders and love his He just kind of has a natural throwing motion. From everything I've watched so far, it's like it just feels effortless and clean. However, the dude got the crap kicked out of him, just so many sacks over and over again. Part of that's the line, part of it's him. But it seems like these two have kind of separated themselves. While Milroe is a really fun fantasy projection if he can somehow get his starting job, He's kind of a fringe first round pick right now based on what we're seeing. But I think overall, like last year, we knew we had four or five names and super flex strap that you're like, Okay, I want these dudes. This year, there's still a lot up in the air, And so my question for you guys is beyond just the teams, cause we're gonna start putting those together. You're gonna see mock drafts where people are copying off each other's paper over and over and over again. That's basically what this is for the next couple of months. But do you feel like where we're at in this process, like this past year's class is like helping these dudes a lot, Like is it helping our outlook for fantasy?
00:35:50
Speaker 4: I don't know if I fully follow what you mean by that, because like last year's class, like Caleb was viewed as the dude, and Jayden had his supporters, don't get me wrong, and he was very highly coveted and people love Drake May But like when you look at some of the and this isn't the best way to do it. But when you look at some of like the consensus big board rankings, like Daniel Jeremiah has his PFF has THEIRS, the thirty third team, the Athletic with Dan Brugler, like all these guys that kind of have their opinion, Like Shador is all over the map. Like I saw his low as like forties to ten, top ten, So I don't know how the NFL is going to view him. I think because of the weak quarterback class, he will go in the first round, no question. But it's just like you know, even cam Ward has his holes, right, like he had to transfer a couple of times to get to Miami. So and then you've got Jalen Milroe who seems like a project as a thrower but has fun rushing upside. And then you go from like Jackson Dart down and there's really not a lot of home run picks here. So I think last year's class, I don't know if it helps these guys, but I think the general weakness of quarterback helps the top two in cam Warden Shadow Sanders. If that makes sense.
00:36:58
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so what we're what I was more saying is that because of the production we saw from guys like bo Nix, older older quarterbacks, and you could see them translate right away. Like Mike was saying earlier, like this is a different landscape. I have to take everything that I knew about twenty three and twenty four year old quarterbacks and everything was like, oh, this dude's old. This isn't gonna work. To the NFL is okay with this, And then in fantasy I can actually be okay with seeing some of these players. Now the question is are they going to run enough? I mean, that's that's really all we really care about, is like, are these dudes gonna run the highest scramble rate among this class? Jackson Dart nine point three percent of his dropbacks. Next would be sder Sanders, and then Jalen Milrose. So I think if you're looking in this class and seeing who in the process moves up, Dart has moved up a ton in the last month from old miss and he's the youngest in the class, and he's also running a little bit. So he is interesting to me as a name just to kind of hold on to and say hey, over the next month or so, is there a team that really likes him and is he enter the conversation of first round quarterbacks? But Mike any any thoughts on quarterback?
00:38:07
Speaker 2: Uh? Just the you know, looking at the actual draft order, it is I think slightly optimistic, which is funny because you because of these teams have such a stench to them of just like when you think about that team now you think, oh, that's a that's a really bad team. It's like Tennessee who actually the offensive pieces, like they have some guy, like they have some playmakers. That Tennessee was a team last year that it was not uncommon to have people like you know what, I think that the Tennessee offense, I think it could actually be pretty good. Now that bet was on will Levis and that was the we hit the incorrect side of that bet, but like that that still stands true of like if you like the infrastructure and the players, that could work out. And Cleveland's kind of the same to me. Like I like Stefanski. I think that I think that he runs a good offense and when he has the a capable player back there at the quarterback position, we can get good stuff from from them. Now the Giants, I know, I'm like Malik is there, But I just I don't really have faith in the in the Giants organization at the moment. So it's that that's more of what it's going to be for these guys. If you if you don't run, how are what is the infrastructure around you? Do I like the coaching staff? Do I feel confident in them? It's not just about who are the players that you're going to be throwing to, because I mean see Caleb Williams, you know, quarterback drafted into the best possible fantasy spot we've ever seen with those three wide receivers, but the surrounding chaos of the team. It it took. The team went down and Caleb Williams went down with it as as a rookie. So I'm cautiously optimistic for the landings of the Titans and the Browns.
00:40:02
Speaker 3: I'll say this about uh Shader Sanders. He kind of has the same bugaboo so far in my film watching as Calebi, which is I can make things happen, but sometimes holding onto the ball and creating stuff is like it's a trump card in high school and college because you're better than everybody else. In the NFL, we look at guys that hold on the ball too long, as like, ah, this is not going to work out very well. You don't have that kind of time. So that's one thing that I mean, he's accurate, so you can overcome those things. But Caleb, Caleb's season was all over the map. And my biggest takeaway and my thing that I remember most is just like, dude, you are trying to dance the entire time.
00:40:43
Speaker 2: He looked so uncomfortable where I mean, like the the the comparison of Caleb to Jane and Daniels, it's like Daniels, he just he even when he's getting rushed, he didn't appear flustered. Now mentally maybe he was, but considering where he got in the playoffs, you know, I think that that dude was not where Caleb Williams looked terrified after a couple of seconds in the pocket.
00:41:11
Speaker 4: Now, Kyle, do we have in the production profiles and in our data set? Are we implementing a VR training point for any of these guys after Jan's rookie year with the VR, I mean, that's got to be in that's gotta be in the model.
00:41:26
Speaker 3: Mike, Mike heads up that department.
00:41:28
Speaker 4: Okay, Mike, Yeah, on it.
00:41:29
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm gonna look into it, but it's hard enough getting these guys actual correct like birthday. For some reason, these these things are dude, what's going on here? Like why are these things top secret? If you're going in the NFL, everyone's gonna know your birthday in a month, like it's going to be reported. It's it's it's it's it's very strange that it's so strange to me this whole thing of that you your birth your true age is not out there. You're they like you get listed two inches taller than you are, ten pounds heavy. You're like, it's so weird to me that stuff that's such a foreign world. I can't understand it.
00:42:10
Speaker 3: It is a fun little chase for me to like hunt down everybody's birthday because sometimes they're literally not listed anywhere, and I mean like anywhere on the internet. I've tried to go as many places. One player who I just like saying his name by shehll touton of Virginia Tech. I didn't I didn't know if we'd bring up his name, but I found out his birthday from finding on Twitter when Virginia Tech said it was his birthday. And then having to backtrack until like figure out the days from there. That's how I figured out his birthday. He's old by whatever you gotta do. Yeah, let's talk about running backs because there's one name which you've probably been hearing about for a year. It's Ashton Genty of Boise State, and right now, based on most mock drafts, which like I said earlier, everybody at some point is participating in a group think we've all been a part of it. He seems like he's going somewhere in the top twenty. A lot of people and I mean a lot of people have them with Dallas, which makes sense to me, but also we're just copying. It seems like we're getting first round draft capital though, and that's significant, and he's going to join that list of one oh one running backs for most people at this point in the process. And it's hard to argue because the things that translate from college are did you get yards and touchdowns? That's like, I mean, running backs is almost the least complicated from a production profile standpoint, and then we kind of try to figure out what scheme do they fit in, what type of runner are they are? They do they have a pass catching profile, but like he's there, and then there's a bunch of other dudes that I think are really interesting for early day two. I'm not really seeing anybody else entering that first round conversation. But early day two, I mean, I probably have two or three names that I'm kind of excited about. Like I'm excited to have a running back at around that one oh five, one oh six, one oh seven range in rookie draft that like they're a good prospect and the landing spot matters. But like last year, we were throwing darts at running back.
00:44:07
Speaker 2: And you saw that, Oh it was brutal.
00:44:09
Speaker 3: With so many rookies. Like I was going back through it was like what I thought at the time is I'm just gonna hit with one of these guys. It's gonna be Benson, it's gonna be Brooks, Marshaun, Lloyd. One of these dudes is gonna hit And none of them did, Korum whoever. But this year feels a lot different and Betts, do you feel that way so far?
00:44:26
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a lot of names that I'm definitely intrigued that I think we'll go somewhat early on day two. And what I mean by like early is like top like sixty ish overall picks like a Marion Hampton, Travon Henderson, Caleb Johnson's getting a lot of love Camp Scottaboo. Maybe we'll see quinchn Judkins. Like there's a lot of names that you know, they're not perfect prospects, like you know, other guys that we've seen maybe Gent, but it's definitely like genty at the top, and then this kind of group of like four or five that you you know, can put in whatever order. But like those guys are getting enough buzz right now for early round two that you definitely have to have them on radar. And obviously, like you said, landing spot matters a ton, But that's kind of the overall view of the classes. It's it's Gent's world. We're all just living in it. And then like that little group of like four and then from there some fun sleepers. But of course those guys are all low probability bets that you know we'll go in round three through six or seven.
00:45:19
Speaker 3: Yeah, Mike, you were looking through some of their production profiles and you know we'll have all that in the Dynasty Pass. But like there's some guys on there. Caleb Johnson of Iowa his Dominator rating fifty two percent. That's wild.
00:45:30
Speaker 2: It's ridonculous for and it's for what we see watching him, Like I had to, he's he's a very difficult evaluation of uh because his offensive line when you're watching him, the offensive line is so tremendous, you know, and you're like, that's really helping him. But it's when I was watching, I had to stop myself from almost feeling negative because it looks so effortless for him, like it and it's like, oh no, maybe he's just so good that it looks like it's easy, where like when you it just running style right, you know, watching Hampton, you know violence, you know, like you trying to use power and all this stuff, and it just it looks you're like, oh man, that guy's really working, almost like watching like when you watch Aaron if you're old enough to have watched Aaron Foster run like the dude, it didn't look hard and yet he was awesome, so it does. It doesn't have to look hard. It was anyway. Just one of my one of my takeaways so far of watching these guys at the high level of that guy is he is very smooth and his production profile is as green as you can possibly get in every single category and market share percentage that we care about. So I mean that that success, if you get draft capital with that guy, that it's gonna feel like that'll feel really good to have a mid or early first round pick.
00:47:06
Speaker 3: Yeah, these guys, Like I'm also looking at this class compared to last year, even two years ago, where we had a bunch of itty bitty, itty bitty boys. As Jason would say, it's like we had a Chan, we had all these other guys that are just like ah man, they're so small, and you know, a lot of these guys might be boosted a little bit in their profiles, but we're talking a lot of running backs that are above two hundred and around that five eleven six foot range where it's like you profile as the type of running back in our metrics that like you can be a three down workhorse, and a lot of these guys also have the pass catching to go with it. So you just look at a lot of prospects that you know right now you might have a favorite where you're like, oh, I like Caleb Johnson of Iowa more than Amaran Hampton and Hampton reminds me a lot of Javonte who also went there was like a tackle breaking machine. And then you have the Ohio State guys Treveon Henderson and quin Shawn Jenkins formerly of Old Miss, who just won a national championship, and they're both probably gonna be Day two picks. So it kind of just depends on your flavor. But I think the top five to six running backs, like, I think there's a lot there where we didn't have that a year or two ago.
00:48:15
Speaker 2: So yeah, well, I mean last year it was if you had running backs in your first round, which you did, was it was two you know, it was it was Brooks at like the one five, one O six, and then Benson a couple picks later, but it was but everything was, h I'm drafting this player and I have to wait, which waiting on waiting on a first round pick is Sometimes it's like it can be worth it. It just perceptually that feels rough, like if I'm taking if I'm drafting you with a first round rookie pick, I expect that I could put you in as a flex at the very least, unless I'm it's a quarterback and I'm waiting on you to develop, but to have a guy where you you know, you can't even reliably play them, I mean Trey Benson especially, of like I'm waiting, I'm waiting to see if James Connor has fallen apart if he gets an injury and no, he did not get those things he got in an extension and no, and noll Trey Benson pick plus the unfortunate Jonathan Brooks retear of his acls. Like those those are depth picks, like Trey Benson great to have on your bench, but that's a he's a depth player.
00:49:31
Speaker 4: Yeah, and just for context too, like an NFL draft, obviously Jonathan Brooks was the first one taking, but that wasn't until in the forties. Overall, no other running back went in round two. So it was just like man from the start, it just kind of felt and.
00:49:42
Speaker 2: Then two and the third or was it yeah, three in the third?
00:49:45
Speaker 4: Benson who was the third? Who's the third?
00:49:48
Speaker 2: Koran was in the third?
00:49:49
Speaker 4: Lloyd Marshall Lloyd.
00:49:50
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:49:50
Speaker 4: So just like the class was not great going in and we were all kind of like hoping they would be and they weren't. But this class I think definitely has some guys.
00:49:59
Speaker 2: That get far more excited at this point of the process than I was for last year for the running back position.
00:50:06
Speaker 3: Yeah, so there's just four in the top one hundred and well in the first three rounds, so I would say we're gonna get five six maybe, which is just you know, loads more and then what do we do with Cam Scataboo. That's a fun conversation. I'm excited when we get to that film, not just because he's Arizona State guy and you guys have some thoughts, but he's just fun.
00:50:30
Speaker 2: I was watching him this morning and I sent over my I don't really do player comps, like, that's not my specialty. Some people you know, oh watching that player that reminds me of so and so that's not My brain doesn't work like that. But Cam Scataboo, it came to me perfectly. It was so clear that he is General Trag from the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. He was the leader of the of the Rock Soldiers whatever they were Rock Soldiers. So if you are of our age and you know that reference, you know that that thing is incredible and that is exactly who Camp's Kataboo is. As as he looks like it. He looks like a block, and he that he plays like a block. He is.
00:51:15
Speaker 4: It's a perfect compy.
00:51:17
Speaker 2: His film is so incredibly fun, and then his production profile is out of control. It's out of control dominant so him. If we could get at least third round draft capital for Scataboo, that'll be very exciting, don't That will be devastating for there's players that we fall in love with at this point who have everything we're looking for. Like, I think he looks pretty good on a film, he's got this production profile, and then they get literally undrafted, like these things happen. So figures will be crossed that we get someone to believe in Skataboo.
00:51:54
Speaker 3: All right, let's take quick break and then we'll come back wide receivers. All right, moving on to wide receivers, we'll talk Titans two. The class seems a little bit like we're wishfully thinking that there's more in here. And when you think about last year, we had the first round guys that just crushed Brian Thomas, Junior Blik neighbors, and even we gave some context around Marv of like, hey, for a rookie season, this was good for redraft. We were definitely stained of what we thought it was this year, depending on what you want to do with Travis Hunter, we already talked about that. Behind him true wide receivers, it's Ted Roha McMillan of Arizona, who is a monster of a man. I don't think he'll come in at six ' five, but he's tall. And then behind him, it's a bunch of guys that I have a lot of question marks about, and that's probably in this process I'm starting my wide receiver film. I have a list of questions, and my first question is like, how many wide receivers go in the first round? My initial guests and I kind of do this bets and I do this process where we ask questions and then each month we update the chart. Right now, I would guess four wide receivers go in the first round, which feels like not a lot. I would put the line at like three and a half.
00:53:23
Speaker 2: And that is that counting Hunter as a wide receiver.
00:53:26
Speaker 3: That's not counting Hunter, Okay, that's me putting him as a as a cornerback. So in that sense, it feels like the class is short sighted, and so you're gonna have a lot of dudes where you take them at the one oh seven or one o eight and they end up being, hey, this guy got second round draft capital by the Chiefs. It's sky Moore. I think it's gonna work like that's that's who's gonna get boosted up. Though that's just traditionally what happens in Dynasty. So what are you se y'all's initial takes of just looking at the crop of players we have and saying, like, does it feel like there's there's shit be more here? Especially wide receiver is the position in Dynasty that we fall in love with, and I feel like we're gonna be left wanting a little bit. I'm not trying to be a Debbie downer, but it's like, there's not as much here as last year.
00:54:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, the I mean you just have the the casual like you just take a casual buzz of wide receivers, you know, of like when when Marv, when Jamar Chase are coming into the league like that it breaks through to people who aren't diehards of following NCAA football, and we like Jenti he broke through. I mean like we casuals know who he is, even if you don't you don't know where he goes to school. You're just like, oh, I've heard that name, and I heard that he's a running back who's having an incredibly great year. These when there's a superstar, we know about it generally before the h the year of it feels, you know, the uh, very like a like a Corey Davis type of a year. Now which the NFL they gassed him up, they tried. It was like Corey Davis, John Ross, and Mike Williams if I'm if I'm remembering it right, yeah, and Mike Williams is still playing football. But none of those guys ever turned into what you would imagine a top ten NFL wide receiver would would do. So and but going into that it was like, there're no one's really breaking through to be this. This is this is the guy. This is the guy that you got a top you got to draft him in the top five. Now you know t Mac is getting steam like that's gonna happen, and it would be pretty exciting, you know. I mean, if he ends up on the Patriots and you have that potential moving career of Drake May paired with with with t Mac, that would be exciting but other than that, Yeah, I think you're right there. It's this is more of a this is the running back draft. So if that's your position indeed, which is everybody, you should still be excited about your picks. Yeah.
00:56:09
Speaker 4: I think that's a good way to put it. It definitely does seem kind of top heavy and like two aspects where it's like, obviously we're still not sure on Travis Hunter, but like t Mac is like in his own tier of like the true X wide receiver of this class, bigger body guy can win at all three levels like that you would picture as a potential wide receiver one in the NFL. Then Luther Burden, he has his supporters, but he's been more of a slock guy and in college and it's like, okay, how does he fit and scheme wise? And then you go down to like Igbuka, Matthew Gordon, Isaiah Bond, you know, Trey Harris, those types of guys, and they all have their issues. There's some strengths obviously, but they all have some weaknesses too. Going back to last year's class, like you know, when we had the Big three as we were all calling them with Marvin Neighbors in Rome, it was like, these guys are clearly NFL talents, Like it's definitely gonna work, is what we all thought. And looking at this class, it's like I could see it on a couple of guys, but there's nobody that I think is a home run pick as of right now.
00:57:06
Speaker 3: It's also interesting I follow a lot of these, you know, mock draft database, like where the stock is going. So I have a list of here's where it was a month ago, and then now here's where it was a month later, and I and every single time I go, oh, did you play? Did you play in the college football Playoff? Because if you did, your stock is mostly up because that's what everyone just saw. So like, it's funny the Ohio State players, the Texas players, like their stock has gone to Matthew Golden was really good though against Arizona State, really good. He had four touchdowns the last two games. Isaiah Bond was a player who was listed up there and then his stock kind of went down based on what he did in college football Playoff. So just keep that in mind. Whatever you see in early January is a response to what did we see last and then once we get more information in February. The combine, you'll start to see things change. So just because the wide receivers listed, as you know, Isaiah Bond's like forty eighth overall and like he was a player that I had tons of concerns. And I also, I don't know if you guys do this. I just saw adan I Mitchell come from this program with the exact same issues of he doesn't get targeted a ton and this is how they use him. And then you saw Adana I Mitchell in the pros have the same issues, Like it's easy for me to do that. So I'm just letting you guys know I have a bias about Isaiah Bond. Uh already then I'm like, oh man, I need I'm just I'm putting it out there.
00:58:34
Speaker 2: Though I appreciate that you acknowledging it.
00:58:38
Speaker 3: Yeah, he also went to a rival high school around here that I don't like.
00:58:41
Speaker 4: Oh my god, he's sell you school, Kyle Kyle still keeping high school drama.
00:58:50
Speaker 2: How this guy dude grow up?
00:58:52
Speaker 3: Kyle Dude here in Georgia, it's a big deal.
00:58:56
Speaker 2: And just you know, then George and used to find some new things to have be a big deal. If you if twenty years later, you're you're still throwing back to Oh my good yes, Kyle, you're you're your twenty year reunion's got to be coming up.
00:59:14
Speaker 3: I was, let's see, I was, that's this year. Actually, I was, yeah, yeah, thank you, Mike, You're welcome. I might actually attend.
00:59:23
Speaker 2: No, don't go. It's just a big grift. No I have.
00:59:25
Speaker 3: I probably won't go. Uh but yeah, just name your bias. Put it that way, like if you watch that, yeah, that's fine. That's really my takeaway here and me.
00:59:33
Speaker 2: Don't worry, ladies and gentlemen, Me and Matthew Betts will give you fair take.
00:59:38
Speaker 4: I have no bias except for Tyler Warren is going to break football.
00:59:42
Speaker 2: Okay, let's yeah, yeah, there was, we got we have some biases.
00:59:46
Speaker 3: Let's talk about tight ends then, okay, transition over here. That was a good but Tyler Warren tight end from Penn State. He breaks a lot of things in the spreadsheets, and there's really like, I'm kind of excited about Titan this year. Beyond just Warren. We have Polston Loveland.
01:00:06
Speaker 4: Great every year, Stephen Fantasy, It's gonna be great.
01:00:13
Speaker 3: Let me look at what Titans doing.
01:00:16
Speaker 2: This Okay, no, no, don't look at what the Titans have been doing. It's I'm the same. Thing's like cover guys. There's three guys who are good. That's it's all we'll ever get. That's all war will be allowed to have.
01:00:32
Speaker 3: I'm excited. Are you excited?
01:00:33
Speaker 2: Bet?
01:00:34
Speaker 4: There's some interesting guys in the class. I think back to last year, like obviously it was Bowers and it was Powers, right and yeah, like some people were like kind of interested by whoa, whoa.
01:00:46
Speaker 2: Whoa, whoa. I think you're leaving out. Uh, guy who caught fake punch with Washington Drive.
01:00:55
Speaker 4: That was a beautiful catch. And right as I was ready to do body control, I saw that in prime time and I was like, I'm back.
01:01:02
Speaker 2: I was ready to be out.
01:01:03
Speaker 4: No, I was because I was like, man, oh, they're definitely gonna resign Hurts and here comes Ben Sinnett on the fourth down play. Yes, that was great, but like obviously it was Bowers and then it was like we kind of like Ben Sinnett, maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. And then some people were like, oh, Theo Johnson. You know, he had the athletic profile, like maybe it could work. But like there was nobody behind Bowers that people were like, this is this is good, this is exciting, and I feel like in this plast there's like two or three names, you know, like Tyler, Warren, Colson Loveland is getting a lot of first round buzz. Harold Fannon Junior's production is insane. Three point seven point three point four is unormal. So like there's some guys that you're like, okay, like maybe, but again it's kind of the big two and of Warren and Loveland and then a lot of unknowns.
01:01:52
Speaker 3: Tidan is one of those positions that and and Mike, you're here, like you you've fall in love with a guy that you really really like at the position, and then you're kind of just like hold out hope because the trajectory is you can kind of wait on some of these dudes, like you're not always expecting everybody to be Bowers. But then I'm on this Maybe it's a Kyle Pitts thing too. I'm biased people where like is this player even a tight end? Is this guy even like lining up that way and on the field enough. Harold Fanon is one of those players where is he big enough to be a traditional inline guy? Is he and Evan Ingram type like. Those are the conversations that we'll be having over the next couple of months. But it seems like Warren's gonna be first, and Loveland is also has some great production stuff. He's also one of the younger players in this class, so it's at least something to start with. Where in the past we were just like throwing random darts like the Cole Comet year where he went first first, tighten off the board like it's a tough position, and I would say, this is more encouraging, That's all I'm saying, just encouraging.
01:02:57
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna let it happen.
01:02:59
Speaker 3: Are you just mad that Senate? The Senator?
01:03:02
Speaker 5: I know, are guys five receptions. We set the path man. We said, it is not year one. It is, in fact, not even the first half of year two.
01:03:14
Speaker 2: It is the second half of year two when when Ben Senate will show why he was drafted as the second tight end in that draft in the second round. The dude is. The dude's a monster. It just takes takes some time, have some patience, love it.
01:03:29
Speaker 4: I mean, is there a more obvious trade target right now than Ben Senate?
01:03:32
Speaker 2: No imagine not trading field get that.
01:03:36
Speaker 4: Yeah, trap wrap up tight ends here. But we also need to recognize too, like Bowers was an unbelievable prospect, Like, yes, I like Warren, I think Lovelin's very interesting. Those guys are not even close in terms of like the level of player coming into the NFL.
01:03:54
Speaker 2: So the reason Bowers went in the double digits is because of Kyle Pitts. Yeah, Like people saw the waste of They're like, whoa the tight end the top four? Like I really do. I think that team saw that and they got nervous to spend that high of a pick on on a tight end despite watching Brock Bauers do what he did. Be like, no, this dude isn't. This guy is an absolute freak and every team should be drafting him.
01:04:23
Speaker 3: Today, I was talking to Bets about Kyle Pitts as I usually do, and I just called him. He's bougie Mike get sicky. That's all he is. He's just a really bougie, expensive version of a hybrid wide receiver tight end. That's really neither of them.
01:04:38
Speaker 4: But the people are asking Kyle is he a second contract guy? Because he's entering the final year of his fifth year option here with Atlanta.
01:04:46
Speaker 3: Because they picked up his fifth.
01:04:49
Speaker 2: Yeah.
01:04:49
Speaker 4: I was working through I was working through Atlanta's team opportunity today for the Dynasty Pass, and I was like, man, this guy really saw fewer targets than Ray Ray McCloud last year, who no disrespect to Ray Rap, but had been a special teamer for his basically his entire season before this past year. It's like, man, maybe maybe Kyle pits just needs a change of scenery and a new team. I don't know, man, but yeah, that's right.
01:05:14
Speaker 3: I feel like there's gonna be a lot of people like on their deathbeds and they share their regrets in life. It's gonna be I took Kyle Pitts and then I just stayed with it. I he's gonna have one season, just like one season, like randomly, whatever team he's on, five years from now, he's been like, oh, that was a good PPR year. He was like the Titan six or seven.
01:05:33
Speaker 2: And then impossible.
01:05:35
Speaker 3: I know, all right, that's gonna do it for us. We're gonna start talking rookies, talking film, all that stuff, and you can find them in the Dynasty Pass that will be out Super Bowl Sunday. If you want to be a part of that, we'll be back next week and so well, Jason see.
01:05:49
Speaker 2: You then goodbye everybody.
01:05:56
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Fantasy foot Mullers Dynasty Podcast. If you want to take your dynasty skills to the next level, check out the Fantasyfootballers dot Com
