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Welcome to Executive Conversations.
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I'm Dwayne Jeffrey.
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In this episode, I'm joined by Antoine Grimaud, the co-founder and CEO of PayPlug.
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We're looking at how PayPalg competes with the big payments providers by combining its banking services and what it takes to win at skill.
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Thank you for joining us.
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For listeners never having heard of PayPal, probably their first time or maybe they have already, how would you describe what the company is today and what kind of merchants do you actually serve?
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So as PayPlug, we position ourselves as the leading uh French payment service providers uh for merchants.
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So um our value position is to offer uh above-market performance for French payment methods to have a very narrow focus on uh our domestic market.
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That's how we differentiate from global players.
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And so with this value position, we serve both local merchants, of course, uh, who have a strong interest in this market and the French market, but also big, large international players uh who want to have a footprint in uh this market among others, and when they want to uh operate in France, uh they choose to work with us.
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And so and and behind that, uh it's a team of uh about 300 persons at PayPal now, uh a great team mostly based in Paris in France.
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Okay, so you have just announced a new merchant business unit inside of Group BPC with PayPlug and the core, and you're leading both of them.
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Um, in your own word, what is the X what exactly is being brought together?
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Yeah, so we are building this uh uh merchant services business unit uh within BPCE, and the idea here is to bridge uh PayPlug and all the resources of the group that's that serve merchants uh for their payment needs.
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Uh so we are bringing around PayPal a lot of new resources uh from the group to have a more powerful setup uh to address the merchants.
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And I think this is kind of unique.
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Uh it's kind of unique because we are like building this best of both worlds between uh the bank and the fintech.
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Uh and so, well, that's what we are doing right now.
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That's what we just launched.
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Uh, and the idea is really to better serve uh our merchants.
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Okay, absolutely.
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So there's a lot of things going on, of course.
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You see a lot of acquisitions around the world, you see a lot of consolidation, you see a lot of reverse consolidations.
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Um, why is this the right moment for you guys to make this move rather than two years ago or maybe two years, two years in the future?
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Um, so we we we are now at the end of a very important chapter for us, which has been the merger of uh PayPlug and Dalinis.
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Uh and so we decided to merge those two fintechs uh in 2022, so it's been about four years, and uh we've been executing on this merger uh along the past year.
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So two years ago, we were uh very much into this process of merger.
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We were still converging the two technical platforms and the teams and the processes and so on.
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And now we are at we are at the point in time when we have this uh platform and this team which is mature, uh up and running.
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Uh we we managed to get uh the user experience of Payplugs, the back-end performance of Dalinis.
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So we we built really this uh state-of-the-art platform uh from the two historical ones.
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Uh and so that's why it was maybe too early for us to engage in a new chapter like this one uh two years ago.
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And uh then why now?
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I think because uh since we all agree it's the way to go, let's do it.
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Uh there is a cost of opportunity to wait more.
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And and again, it's been uh I've I've not said that, but uh we've been booed by BPCE about eight years ago already.
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So it's been already a long journey within the group, uh, with a lot of autonomy so far.
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And I think now we have this level of maturity uh to start this new chapter, and there is no reason to uh to wait more.
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Fantastic.
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So you have the original purchase of BPCE acquiring PayPal, then you had Delenis.
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Yeah, you converge those together or merged those together into a single platform, single unit within that with an operational team.
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And now within that group, you're launching this merchant division that's really bringing the best of the bank and the best of the payments platform all together.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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That's the idea.
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That's the next chapter of our scale, of our growth, of our ambition.
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Uh, and we really want to take the most of the complementarities between the bank and the feedback, which is quite new because I I think many have tried, but uh very few have uh succeeded in doing that so far.
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Fantastic.
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So I'm a merchant.
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Like what does this let you do for merchants that PayPalg couldn't do on its own?
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So um there are several dimensions in terms of product.
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Uh, we are bridging the full service platform of PayPlug with the payment resources from BPCO.
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Basically, it's about 300,000 terminals that are operated uh by uh BPCO payment services, and so we are bridging those resources uh with PayPal, and so it will make our omnichannel value proposition much more powerful by bringing PayPlug, which does omni channel payment, but we come from e-commerce, uh, our story comes from e-commerce, and the resources we get from the group come from uh in-store payment, and so that will enhance our omni-channel value proposition by bringing those teams, those uh expertise, and those platforms together.
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Second one is uh we get access to uh uh to the ecosystem, to the regulators, to uh this uh all those those people through the BPCE uh business unit.
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And uh for instance, we had the ability to be the first to launch uh Wi-Ro in France, and that uh was held by BPCE.
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And tomorrow uh we will most likely be the first to do a pilot about digital euro, and so that's something also that we benefit from this BPCE uh setup.
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Uh then we got access to the distribution network of the bank, obviously, uh that's uh super important to be integrated properly within the offers of the Banque Populaire at the Gas Départ, and it's a very strong network in France, and of course, last but not least, uh we intend to have the uh to bundle payment solutions with banking solutions, and so to uh bring together uh payment and financing uh to like bring into our offer cash management, uh financing and so on, and so to expand our value position and to offer better experience to the merchants.
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Absolutely.
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So it sounds to me like this is what I see a lot of payments companies doing, but then partnering outside, finding third parties actually provide the banking as a service solutions to maybe partner with an uh POS provider who then only does the the POS part of it while they're managing the platform.
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But you're saying because you have all these assets in-house within the group, basically, you're saying let's take the best of all of it, create an omni-channel solution and have one particular focus of that unit to be able to execute on that.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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And the beauty of this is that BPCO decided to uh uh to trust uh its fintech inside to lead this project and to uh uh and to to pave the way by bringing all the resources together and try to build the most powerful offer uh in this market.
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Yeah, I think it's a it's an interesting strategy.
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Um, but if you then look at global PSPs, right?
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That's nowadays global PSPs acquires, um, especially the ones that you're probably competing with, um, a lot of them are focusing on strong technology, broad reach, leveraging data.
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What do you think is a single thing about your position that would be hard for them to replicate?
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Yeah, so um I think uh now we are in this era of uh artificial intelligence, right?
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And so um, as you as you know, uh there is less and less value in the application layer, and I think more and more value in the data.
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Okay, and uh that I mean that's a reality for all the software industry, I think.
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And so a bank is a gold mine of data, so that's something we will have a better access to and we can better leverage, and our global competitors they don't have access to this mine of data that we that we have.
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So I think that's something which is not replicable for our global uh competitors.
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Uh, then we have this local position which is quite unique with Cardbancare, with uh again, DPCE has a very strong issuer of payment card in France.
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That also is not easily replicable by these global players because we have this toker scheme, we have this local issuer, uh, and we also have the access to other uh French banks uh because we all talk together, so we have privileged access to uh this local ecosystem of scheme and bank issue and big bank issuers, uh, which is also very hard to replicate.
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And one last thing which is uh not replicable for uh our global players is uh more broadly our uh the the all the partners we have in France, and that's just the the consequence of our history.
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We've been in this market for 15 years, and we have partnering with every player in the ecosystem.
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So uh now we have about 800 active partners uh in France, and it's technology solution, it's service provider, and all these networks makes our solution perfectly integrated within the merchant ecosystem.
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Uh we know it's web agency, it's uh stock management, it's catch register, we work with its CMS, with I mean, every piece of his uh uh of his ecosystem, we already work with it.
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And so that's all pieces which are very hard to replicate uh when you're a global player and you want to be active in 50 countries in the world.
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Absolutely.
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So there's a huge data moat, right?
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Yeah.
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The ability to access to the bank's data, your own data, layer that on top of each other and see insights that will be very hard for others to replicate.
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We're only maybe doing the international payments of international parties within the French market.
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But you can actually say on a on a global, well, on a domestic level, you have access to the data and you can build things.
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So you can build better fraud engines, better optimization engines, better routing capabilities.
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Um, and then of course, the the regulatory aspect, you have other licenses, you can build newer products as well.
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And that's what we're seeing a lot, is where merchants are not just processing payments, but they also want bank accounts, they also want other adjacent products to that as well.
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So maybe to put that in the scale of context, right?
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Like you have other competitors uh processing.
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Now, I think a lot of them talk about how they're processing over a trillion euros uh every single year with operating over in in 100 countries.
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PayPal works at a very different order of magnitude.
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Um, so when we look at that actual scale, right, is that not the thing that decides the market, right?
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Do you have to change the large scale, or can you go into the market, a domestic market, and actually say, well, we can operate on multiple levels, and that's really where the business is?
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Yeah, I think both are true.
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Uh and and scale does matter uh in our business.
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I I could not say that scale doesn't matter.
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Uh, but that's also one reason we do this uh business unit.
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Uh right now, if you look at PayPlug, we're uh uh what we call a small-scale player in our payment business, which is still uh more than 10 billion euros, that's that's um the volume we process.
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But when we go at this uh uh BBC merchant services level, I I cannot disclose the number, but we are way more than 100 billion, and so we we get we reach a new scale that is also something powerful for us.
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And uh well, I think that's a good scale to open a new chapter.
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And with everything uh you said and I said before, that the pieces we can bring from this domestic focus, uh, I think we have both.
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We have both the scale and this uh level of uh uh of of deep dive of uh of technicities that we can have on our local market.
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Yeah.
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So several of those competitors um are no longer what we call pure payment players, right?
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Like um, I believe um Agen holds licenses in Europe, the UK, the US, other regions as well.
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They offer merchant accounts, financing, card issuing.
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Stripe has built pretty much a similar platform with much of the same things.
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Given that, what does sitting inside the bank like a BPCE give a merchant that those other players cannot already provide?
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Uh so first of all, I think that uh those moves from those big players uh is also a proof that you have synergies between payments and other banking products.
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That's uh uh I mean we we share this rationale with uh with those uh global players, uh, but then again, I I it's a question of focus.
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And uh our value proposition of being number one payment solution in our domestic market.
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Uh I don't think it's easily replicable by those global players, as I said, but at the same time, um doing financing uh in France, I think BPCE is better at doing that than those global players as well.
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And uh we bring a combination of uh proximity and digital, which is very I mean complicated to replicate.
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And I think with uh uh with that you have the confidence, which is super important in our business, that you can bring.
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Uh you can talk to your uh bank populaire banker if you wish.
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Uh he's speaking the same language.
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Um, through PayPlug, you have uh the proximity of someone, as I said, who already works with all your service providers.
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Uh just try to talk to someone at Stripe uh about your uh uh your problems in France.
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And well, I'm sure you won't have the same custom solution, uh in terms of banking or in terms of payment or any banking needs that you need that you have.
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Yeah.
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Okay, so it's really understanding the domestic market, understanding the products and services that you have, going deeper into those layers and actually providing much more custom solutions to those clients.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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So um I want to talk a little bit about omnichannel and bundling, of course.
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We already mentioned it, but um, let's say you're you take a mid-sized French retailer, they have about 40 shops, a growing website.
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Um and currently today they're they have one provider in store and another one online, and then they have to reconcile everything by hand.
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I see that problem every single day of the week.
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Um, but let's say they move to you.
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What actually changes for them?
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Yeah, so that's exactly at the core of our value proposition is to bring those retailers into the omnichannel uh era, and uh by using our solutions, they will have all their payments at the same time in real time, I mean, uh in the same place, in the same dashboard, in the same export, in the same API.
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Uh so and you can act on your offline payments through your online dashboard, you can take action online to offline, offline to online.
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Uh so it's uh basically uh it makes your back office operation more efficient uh because financial reconciliation, accounting, payment monitoring, everything is more efficient by having everything in real time with the same form in the same place.
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And also your clients have a better experience because they can start uh to buy in store and finish online and do all the click and collect and uh buy online, buy buy offline, refund online.
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This kind of uh of journey is made possible by um by this ovnichannel value proposition.
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And on top of that, uh when we think about the future, uh the the next wave of ovnichannel is about social network, is about agent e-commerce, and all that, of course, uh is the things we are working on to offer uh the full-fledged payment experience to our merchants.
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Absolutely.
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Okay, so of course, a part of that logic is that payments will actually bring closer to financing and wider banking products.
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Um, where's the real value for a merchant in having all of those in one provider rather than just having the best in class uh separately?
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Yeah, um so when we do payment, uh you have a large source of real-time data, which is super useful to do financing.
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Um, because uh by doing the payment for the merchants, uh we know very precisely what's the situation of the company, what's the revenue, where it comes from, how it changes.
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And so if we execute well from here, we can be super uh precise, super accurate in doing financing uh to these specific merchants and to have a super tailored solution than that a standalone financer could not do.
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And the other way around, uh, how does financing help payments?
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It's um and uh I hope I I will not regret to do that by uh you can offer better pricing uh because uh if you bundle everything and in a bank right now, liquidity and access to deposit is uh super important.
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So if uh we work well with uh uh BPCE in that direction, we bring we are payment is the door to liquidity, so we bring more liquidity and the value of this liquidity, we can uh use it to be more aggressive in our pricing in payments, if you see what I mean.
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So that's the kind of bundle that uh makes it possible to uh to have better pricing and to have a better financing offered to the merchant.
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Absolutely, really get that.
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Um I think another topic that currently has been on everybody's mind is of course payment sovereignty, right?
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And I think you already mentioned, especially in France, having caught bancare, but also just the mindset of being able to operate and provide solutions within the French market.
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So I want to talk a little bit about sovereignty within Europe.
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Um, so European payment sovereignty is moving away from talk to actually building an infrastructure with Wiro, of course, rolling out uh for online payments across France this year, and account-to-account reels are starting to mature.
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How central is that to the strategy that you have?
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Uh so our um our ambition now is to take uh this uh notion of sovereignty from France to Europe.
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So it's uh at the core of our strategy.
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Uh and I think there is room to a European scheme, which is what Wiro is is trying to do.
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And uh I hope all the banking players in Europe will execute that well because uh there is a a need for a sovereign solution in the market right now, and uh uh that's something that the merchants uh are interested to are interested in, and there is no reason uh we remain dependent on a US solution to do payments in Europe, basically.
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So uh I think uh we have the right context to build that.
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Uh and besides, uh around the corner, there is also this uh digital euro, which is uh which might be coming in the years to come, it's not yet the hot topic of uh all the shows and the events uh and so on, but it is a hot topic uh when you uh at the European Parliament.
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And I think it's it's gonna it's gonna come and it's gonna be a reality.
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And so if we have first at our very domestic level carte bancaire and that we are able to replicate uh our expertise and our value position with Wiro and or Eurodigital, and I don't know which one is gonna succeed and how those two are gonna combine in the future, but it's there is every reason to think that there will be a European uh payment scheme at some point in time.
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Uh, and so we want to be first mover on this and to leverage our expertise on uh this domestic payment scheme uh that we have at the French level to uh to bring the same ambition at the European level.
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Absolutely.
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And I think the conversation that I've heard about payment sovereignty is one that payments providers, directors are always talking about.
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But what about merchants?
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Are they actually buying payments processing based on payment sovereignty or are they still mainly focused on price, acceptance rate, uh, and reliability uh to be able to go with a payments processor?
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Yeah, so I mean, good questions.
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And uh and then to be real, uh sovereignty is not the number one uh uh reason of choice of a solution.
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It doesn't come first, but uh as we see maybe ESG a couple of years ago uh rising up in all RFP and in all discussion with merchants, we now see sovereignty, and it's not number one uh reason to choose a solution, but I see two things with sovereignty.
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The first one is uh through sovereignty you're able to uh bring better resilience, better performance, uh even better user experience, and so being very focused on sovereignty opens also some uh opportunities of value for the merchant.
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And besides, uh these questions about sovereignty, it's uh uh it goes a little bit up and down in the market, and it depends on the of the news, of the geopolitics, and so on, and for instance.
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Maybe you you remember that, but a couple of months ago there was uh this uh signal with uh uh the um this uh judge, uh French judge, um whose name is uh Nicolas Guilloux, whose uh means of payment have been blocked uh by the US.
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And so he is a guy in Europe who cannot pay anymore with Visa and MasterCard because of uh US sanctions about him.
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And so that's that single, I mean that single news has bring back sovereignty a lot into every conversation.
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So what I'm what I'm trying to say is that uh depending on the news, it can go very quick, and depending on small factors, that uh everyone feels a concern about sovereignty, feels the risk of being dependent on uh external uh players.
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Uh and so, well, uh it can become a bigger subject uh in the future.
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I think it's already one, it's not the number one uh topic for the merchant, uh, but uh there is a uh high probability that it's more and more important in the future.
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Absolutely.
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Yeah, it's probably not everybody's favorite topic to talk about geopolitical things, but at the same time, you have to prepare for what could happen in the future, especially because things are not as uh as certain.
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So I want to talk a little bit about agility, especially on an industrial scale, right?
00:23:20.640 --> 00:23:28.319
So you've talked about the well, the acquisition of BPCE acquiring PayPal, Delinese coming later on to it.
00:23:28.400 --> 00:23:38.640
Um, but if you look at the history of fintech acquisition, right, it's it's full with filled with companies that uh lost their best people and their speed because a big bank absorbed them.
00:23:38.880 --> 00:23:44.400
What makes you confident that PayPal PayPal doesn't become one of those companies and actually succeed?
00:23:44.880 --> 00:24:03.759
So I'm I think that's what I'm most proud about is that uh this PayPal story is kind of unique of uh of its kind because it's been now eight years uh we've been acquired by uh BPCE and it still has its uh entrepreneurial DNA.
00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:09.279
Uh I mean it's fintech soul, and of course, people have changed.
00:24:09.519 --> 00:24:15.039
Uh we are much more industrial than we used to be in the early days, of course.
00:24:15.119 --> 00:24:18.240
Uh but the culture and the DNA have remained.
00:24:18.400 --> 00:24:26.720
And and and the single fact that I'm still here as a co-founder of the company, eight years after the acquisition, is is quite unique.
00:24:26.799 --> 00:24:30.480
And I I hope it's a kind of a proof of uh of what I'm saying.
00:24:30.559 --> 00:24:38.480
And it's true for a lot of people around me uh within PayPlug who are very much attached to this entrepreneurial uh mindset and culture.
00:24:38.720 --> 00:24:52.799
And uh another proof is that we've done this merger, PPlug and Dalinis, as we mentioned, and uh it has been a challenge because uh uh I mean a merger of two companies about the same size is always a challenge.
00:24:52.960 --> 00:25:08.160
Uh but the fact that we made it through successfully, uh I think it makes me very confident that we can replicate that and succeed in the next chapter of this journey uh with this uh BPCE larger ambitions that we are opening now.
00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:09.359
Okay, perfect.
00:25:09.599 --> 00:25:13.039
So I have two questions mostly focused about the future.
00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:20.880
So I think the first one that I really want to talk about is um if we take a little bit of a step back from pay plug, just more of the European perspective.
00:25:21.039 --> 00:25:27.359
Where do you think European payments are heading and what's the role of bank-owned players in the future?
00:25:27.920 --> 00:25:30.240
So that's a that's a big question.
00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:38.480
Um, so we have a lot of uh things that are happening right now and that may affect the way we pay in the future.
00:25:38.720 --> 00:25:45.519
And so um I think we mentioned all of them, but it's agent e-commerce, obviously, number one.
00:25:45.680 --> 00:25:53.680
Uh Wiro, um, in Europe at least, number two, and I mentioned it a couple of times, maybe digital euro down the road.
00:25:53.759 --> 00:25:55.599
Uh, but there is also stablecoin.
00:25:55.680 --> 00:26:02.640
Uh, there are many things that are like moving pieces around us that may affect the way we pay.
00:26:02.720 --> 00:26:21.759
And I think uh no one has the exact answer yet because uh at the end the decision will be made by the consumer, and no one can tell how much of your purchase you're gonna do through an agent in the future, or you're gonna do through Wii Row in the future instead of your payment card.
00:26:21.839 --> 00:26:23.759
And what about Wii Row through an agent?
00:26:23.839 --> 00:26:26.079
How is this gonna work out?
00:26:26.799 --> 00:26:38.640
Uh but uh I think from our perspective, the way we can make uh our merchant future proof is to prepare for all those possible futures, and that's what we try to do.
00:26:38.799 --> 00:26:52.960
We are working on uh on proof of concept, uh, we are doing some technical implementation, we are uh we have built our MCP server and we are doing some uh agenc uh proof of concept, we are working, as I said, on Wiro, on digital euro.
00:26:53.279 --> 00:27:13.440
So we are learning and we are implementing on all those topics because they are core to our value proposition, and that's the way we want to uh uh prepare for uh the future and to get ready for our merchants, whatever this future is, uh we will have the right solution and we will be ready for them to uh to succeed in the future.
00:27:13.680 --> 00:27:14.480
Absolutely.
00:27:14.799 --> 00:27:18.799
So, my final question, and I like to ask all of my guests this.
00:27:18.880 --> 00:27:21.599
Um, I'm a very future-focused person as well.
00:27:21.680 --> 00:27:23.920
I'm very positive always about the future.
00:27:24.160 --> 00:27:26.000
But what do you think needs to change?
00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:33.680
What needs to happen for pay plug, but overall for European payments to succeed into the future, right?
00:27:33.759 --> 00:27:36.319
Is that new legislation that needs to come in?
00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:38.960
Do we need to work together a lot more?
00:27:39.119 --> 00:27:41.440
Do we need to become much more payment sovereign?
00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:46.640
Or are there other things that are on your mind that need to change for us to be able to succeed in the future?
00:27:46.880 --> 00:27:48.079
Yeah, I think it's an easy one.
00:27:48.160 --> 00:27:51.119
It's just to have people working together.
00:27:51.359 --> 00:28:10.400
And so when we when we come to events or uh uh of gathering of uh of players of the ecosystem, we we we can see it happen, but uh it has to be a reality that banks sit around the table across Europe and work together, same as governments, same as as the public sector.
00:28:10.640 --> 00:28:17.519
And uh again, the thing that we are now have one stream about Euro and another one about digital euro.
00:28:17.759 --> 00:28:27.279
Well, it just makes me think, guys, uh let's bring all this together and let's make one solution that works for everyone, for the banks, for the public sector, for the consumer.
00:28:27.359 --> 00:28:34.799
Uh so it's just uh it's not a question of the uh uh of the specification, it's a question of the execution.
00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:51.839
And execution means uh having everyone working together and uh and trying not to be uh uh we said in French, the village gaulois, you know, the little tribes that fight one another, while you have the uh Romans that come uh well organized uh to uh conquer the country.
00:28:52.000 --> 00:28:56.240
Uh that's exactly the situation we need to overcome in Europe, I guess.
00:28:56.400 --> 00:29:06.559
It's not fighting one another, but getting everyone together and making things bigger uh so that we are able to resist and to uh uh to be there uh in the future.
00:29:06.799 --> 00:29:07.440
Fantastic.
00:29:07.599 --> 00:29:12.240
Well, I want to thank you very much for joining us here at Executive Conversations by the Papers.
00:29:12.319 --> 00:29:14.799
Um, thank you very much.
00:29:14.960 --> 00:29:15.200
Thank you.
00:29:15.359 --> 00:29:16.319
Thanks, Dwayne.
00:29:17.440 --> 00:29:21.759
If you like this episode, hit like, follow, and subscribe for more.
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.760
Welcome to Executive Conversations.
00:00:01.919 --> 00:00:03.120
I'm Dwayne Jeffrey.
00:00:03.359 --> 00:00:09.039
In this episode, I'm joined by Antoine Grimaud, the co-founder and CEO of PayPlug.
00:00:09.279 --> 00:00:16.399
We're looking at how PayPalg competes with the big payments providers by combining its banking services and what it takes to win at skill.
00:00:17.199 --> 00:00:18.239
Thank you for joining us.
00:00:19.120 --> 00:00:31.359
For listeners never having heard of PayPal, probably their first time or maybe they have already, how would you describe what the company is today and what kind of merchants do you actually serve?
00:00:31.679 --> 00:00:39.439
So as PayPlug, we position ourselves as the leading uh French payment service providers uh for merchants.
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So um our value position is to offer uh above-market performance for French payment methods to have a very narrow focus on uh our domestic market.
00:00:51.679 --> 00:00:54.399
That's how we differentiate from global players.
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And so with this value position, we serve both local merchants, of course, uh, who have a strong interest in this market and the French market, but also big, large international players uh who want to have a footprint in uh this market among others, and when they want to uh operate in France, uh they choose to work with us.
00:01:14.079 --> 00:01:23.359
And so and and behind that, uh it's a team of uh about 300 persons at PayPal now, uh a great team mostly based in Paris in France.
00:01:23.680 --> 00:01:33.519
Okay, so you have just announced a new merchant business unit inside of Group BPC with PayPlug and the core, and you're leading both of them.
00:01:33.680 --> 00:01:38.640
Um, in your own word, what is the X what exactly is being brought together?
00:01:38.959 --> 00:01:56.560
Yeah, so we are building this uh uh merchant services business unit uh within BPCE, and the idea here is to bridge uh PayPlug and all the resources of the group that's that serve merchants uh for their payment needs.
00:01:56.640 --> 00:02:06.319
Uh so we are bringing around PayPal a lot of new resources uh from the group to have a more powerful setup uh to address the merchants.
00:02:06.799 --> 00:02:09.280
And I think this is kind of unique.
00:02:09.360 --> 00:02:17.759
Uh it's kind of unique because we are like building this best of both worlds between uh the bank and the fintech.
00:02:18.159 --> 00:02:21.680
Uh and so, well, that's what we are doing right now.
00:02:21.840 --> 00:02:23.280
That's what we just launched.
00:02:23.360 --> 00:02:26.960
Uh, and the idea is really to better serve uh our merchants.
00:02:27.280 --> 00:02:28.240
Okay, absolutely.
00:02:28.400 --> 00:02:30.639
So there's a lot of things going on, of course.
00:02:30.719 --> 00:02:36.560
You see a lot of acquisitions around the world, you see a lot of consolidation, you see a lot of reverse consolidations.
00:02:36.800 --> 00:02:44.240
Um, why is this the right moment for you guys to make this move rather than two years ago or maybe two years, two years in the future?
00:02:44.639 --> 00:02:52.159
Um, so we we we are now at the end of a very important chapter for us, which has been the merger of uh PayPlug and Dalinis.
00:02:52.719 --> 00:03:02.719
Uh and so we decided to merge those two fintechs uh in 2022, so it's been about four years, and uh we've been executing on this merger uh along the past year.
00:03:02.879 --> 00:03:07.919
So two years ago, we were uh very much into this process of merger.
00:03:08.000 --> 00:03:14.639
We were still converging the two technical platforms and the teams and the processes and so on.
00:03:14.879 --> 00:03:23.120
And now we are at we are at the point in time when we have this uh platform and this team which is mature, uh up and running.
00:03:23.280 --> 00:03:31.919
Uh we we managed to get uh the user experience of Payplugs, the back-end performance of Dalinis.
00:03:32.159 --> 00:03:37.439
So we we built really this uh state-of-the-art platform uh from the two historical ones.
00:03:37.840 --> 00:03:44.479
Uh and so that's why it was maybe too early for us to engage in a new chapter like this one uh two years ago.
00:03:44.800 --> 00:03:46.479
And uh then why now?
00:03:46.639 --> 00:03:51.039
I think because uh since we all agree it's the way to go, let's do it.
00:03:51.120 --> 00:03:53.280
Uh there is a cost of opportunity to wait more.
00:03:53.360 --> 00:03:59.520
And and again, it's been uh I've I've not said that, but uh we've been booed by BPCE about eight years ago already.
00:03:59.680 --> 00:04:04.319
So it's been already a long journey within the group, uh, with a lot of autonomy so far.
00:04:04.479 --> 00:04:11.840
And I think now we have this level of maturity uh to start this new chapter, and there is no reason to uh to wait more.
00:04:12.159 --> 00:04:12.800
Fantastic.
00:04:13.039 --> 00:04:18.480
So you have the original purchase of BPCE acquiring PayPal, then you had Delenis.
00:04:18.560 --> 00:04:26.160
Yeah, you converge those together or merged those together into a single platform, single unit within that with an operational team.
00:04:26.240 --> 00:04:33.839
And now within that group, you're launching this merchant division that's really bringing the best of the bank and the best of the payments platform all together.
00:04:34.079 --> 00:04:34.800
Yeah, absolutely.
00:04:34.879 --> 00:04:35.600
That's the idea.
00:04:35.680 --> 00:04:39.040
That's the next chapter of our scale, of our growth, of our ambition.
00:04:39.199 --> 00:04:50.000
Uh, and we really want to take the most of the complementarities between the bank and the feedback, which is quite new because I I think many have tried, but uh very few have uh succeeded in doing that so far.
00:04:50.319 --> 00:04:50.959
Fantastic.
00:04:51.120 --> 00:04:53.120
So I'm a merchant.
00:04:53.199 --> 00:04:58.399
Like what does this let you do for merchants that PayPalg couldn't do on its own?
00:04:58.800 --> 00:05:02.480
So um there are several dimensions in terms of product.
00:05:02.800 --> 00:05:11.519
Uh, we are bridging the full service platform of PayPlug with the payment resources from BPCO.
00:05:11.680 --> 00:05:46.560
Basically, it's about 300,000 terminals that are operated uh by uh BPCO payment services, and so we are bridging those resources uh with PayPal, and so it will make our omnichannel value proposition much more powerful by bringing PayPlug, which does omni channel payment, but we come from e-commerce, uh, our story comes from e-commerce, and the resources we get from the group come from uh in-store payment, and so that will enhance our omni-channel value proposition by bringing those teams, those uh expertise, and those platforms together.
00:05:46.879 --> 00:05:58.560
Second one is uh we get access to uh uh to the ecosystem, to the regulators, to uh this uh all those those people through the BPCE uh business unit.
00:05:59.120 --> 00:06:06.560
And uh for instance, we had the ability to be the first to launch uh Wi-Ro in France, and that uh was held by BPCE.
00:06:06.639 --> 00:06:17.199
And tomorrow uh we will most likely be the first to do a pilot about digital euro, and so that's something also that we benefit from this BPCE uh setup.
00:06:17.680 --> 00:06:52.639
Uh then we got access to the distribution network of the bank, obviously, uh that's uh super important to be integrated properly within the offers of the Banque Populaire at the Gas Départ, and it's a very strong network in France, and of course, last but not least, uh we intend to have the uh to bundle payment solutions with banking solutions, and so to uh bring together uh payment and financing uh to like bring into our offer cash management, uh financing and so on, and so to expand our value position and to offer better experience to the merchants.
00:06:52.959 --> 00:06:53.519
Absolutely.
00:06:53.680 --> 00:07:10.800
So it sounds to me like this is what I see a lot of payments companies doing, but then partnering outside, finding third parties actually provide the banking as a service solutions to maybe partner with an uh POS provider who then only does the the POS part of it while they're managing the platform.
00:07:10.959 --> 00:07:23.439
But you're saying because you have all these assets in-house within the group, basically, you're saying let's take the best of all of it, create an omni-channel solution and have one particular focus of that unit to be able to execute on that.
00:07:23.680 --> 00:07:24.639
Yeah, absolutely.
00:07:24.800 --> 00:07:42.639
And the beauty of this is that BPCO decided to uh uh to trust uh its fintech inside to lead this project and to uh uh and to to pave the way by bringing all the resources together and try to build the most powerful offer uh in this market.
00:07:42.879 --> 00:07:45.759
Yeah, I think it's a it's an interesting strategy.
00:07:45.920 --> 00:07:49.040
Um, but if you then look at global PSPs, right?
00:07:49.120 --> 00:07:59.839
That's nowadays global PSPs acquires, um, especially the ones that you're probably competing with, um, a lot of them are focusing on strong technology, broad reach, leveraging data.
00:08:00.079 --> 00:08:05.279
What do you think is a single thing about your position that would be hard for them to replicate?
00:08:05.519 --> 00:08:13.680
Yeah, so um I think uh now we are in this era of uh artificial intelligence, right?
00:08:14.000 --> 00:08:24.079
And so um, as you as you know, uh there is less and less value in the application layer, and I think more and more value in the data.
00:08:24.319 --> 00:08:29.680
Okay, and uh that I mean that's a reality for all the software industry, I think.
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And so a bank is a gold mine of data, so that's something we will have a better access to and we can better leverage, and our global competitors they don't have access to this mine of data that we that we have.
00:08:42.799 --> 00:08:48.399
So I think that's something which is not replicable for our global uh competitors.
00:08:48.639 --> 00:08:58.399
Uh, then we have this local position which is quite unique with Cardbancare, with uh again, DPCE has a very strong issuer of payment card in France.
00:08:58.559 --> 00:09:19.600
That also is not easily replicable by these global players because we have this toker scheme, we have this local issuer, uh, and we also have the access to other uh French banks uh because we all talk together, so we have privileged access to uh this local ecosystem of scheme and bank issue and big bank issuers, uh, which is also very hard to replicate.
00:09:19.759 --> 00:09:33.200
And one last thing which is uh not replicable for uh our global players is uh more broadly our uh the the all the partners we have in France, and that's just the the consequence of our history.
00:09:33.360 --> 00:09:38.080
We've been in this market for 15 years, and we have partnering with every player in the ecosystem.
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So uh now we have about 800 active partners uh in France, and it's technology solution, it's service provider, and all these networks makes our solution perfectly integrated within the merchant ecosystem.
00:09:53.200 --> 00:10:03.919
Uh we know it's web agency, it's uh stock management, it's catch register, we work with its CMS, with I mean, every piece of his uh uh of his ecosystem, we already work with it.
00:10:04.159 --> 00:10:12.240
And so that's all pieces which are very hard to replicate uh when you're a global player and you want to be active in 50 countries in the world.
00:10:12.559 --> 00:10:13.120
Absolutely.
00:10:13.360 --> 00:10:15.759
So there's a huge data moat, right?
00:10:15.840 --> 00:10:15.919
Yeah.
00:10:16.080 --> 00:10:25.120
The ability to access to the bank's data, your own data, layer that on top of each other and see insights that will be very hard for others to replicate.
00:10:25.200 --> 00:10:30.879
We're only maybe doing the international payments of international parties within the French market.
00:10:31.039 --> 00:10:36.799
But you can actually say on a on a global, well, on a domestic level, you have access to the data and you can build things.
00:10:36.879 --> 00:10:41.120
So you can build better fraud engines, better optimization engines, better routing capabilities.
00:10:41.200 --> 00:10:47.440
Um, and then of course, the the regulatory aspect, you have other licenses, you can build newer products as well.
00:10:47.519 --> 00:10:56.080
And that's what we're seeing a lot, is where merchants are not just processing payments, but they also want bank accounts, they also want other adjacent products to that as well.
00:10:56.399 --> 00:10:59.840
So maybe to put that in the scale of context, right?
00:10:59.919 --> 00:11:02.480
Like you have other competitors uh processing.
00:11:02.559 --> 00:11:10.320
Now, I think a lot of them talk about how they're processing over a trillion euros uh every single year with operating over in in 100 countries.
00:11:10.480 --> 00:11:13.759
PayPal works at a very different order of magnitude.
00:11:14.000 --> 00:11:20.399
Um, so when we look at that actual scale, right, is that not the thing that decides the market, right?
00:11:20.559 --> 00:11:31.759
Do you have to change the large scale, or can you go into the market, a domestic market, and actually say, well, we can operate on multiple levels, and that's really where the business is?
00:11:32.159 --> 00:11:33.840
Yeah, I think both are true.
00:11:33.919 --> 00:11:38.480
Uh and and scale does matter uh in our business.
00:11:38.559 --> 00:11:41.039
I I could not say that scale doesn't matter.
00:11:41.200 --> 00:11:45.600
Uh, but that's also one reason we do this uh business unit.
00:11:45.759 --> 00:11:57.120
Uh right now, if you look at PayPlug, we're uh uh what we call a small-scale player in our payment business, which is still uh more than 10 billion euros, that's that's um the volume we process.
00:11:57.279 --> 00:12:10.399
But when we go at this uh uh BBC merchant services level, I I cannot disclose the number, but we are way more than 100 billion, and so we we get we reach a new scale that is also something powerful for us.
00:12:10.480 --> 00:12:14.879
And uh well, I think that's a good scale to open a new chapter.
00:12:15.039 --> 00:12:23.039
And with everything uh you said and I said before, that the pieces we can bring from this domestic focus, uh, I think we have both.
00:12:23.120 --> 00:12:33.120
We have both the scale and this uh level of uh uh of of deep dive of uh of technicities that we can have on our local market.
00:12:33.360 --> 00:12:33.919
Yeah.
00:12:34.240 --> 00:12:40.240
So several of those competitors um are no longer what we call pure payment players, right?
00:12:40.320 --> 00:12:46.720
Like um, I believe um Agen holds licenses in Europe, the UK, the US, other regions as well.
00:12:46.799 --> 00:12:49.840
They offer merchant accounts, financing, card issuing.
00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:53.759
Stripe has built pretty much a similar platform with much of the same things.
00:12:53.919 --> 00:13:01.120
Given that, what does sitting inside the bank like a BPCE give a merchant that those other players cannot already provide?
00:13:01.519 --> 00:13:12.000
Uh so first of all, I think that uh those moves from those big players uh is also a proof that you have synergies between payments and other banking products.
00:13:12.159 --> 00:13:21.200
That's uh uh I mean we we share this rationale with uh with those uh global players, uh, but then again, I I it's a question of focus.
00:13:21.360 --> 00:13:26.799
And uh our value proposition of being number one payment solution in our domestic market.
00:13:27.279 --> 00:13:43.919
Uh I don't think it's easily replicable by those global players, as I said, but at the same time, um doing financing uh in France, I think BPCE is better at doing that than those global players as well.
00:13:44.159 --> 00:13:54.480
And uh we bring a combination of uh proximity and digital, which is very I mean complicated to replicate.
00:13:54.559 --> 00:14:01.279
And I think with uh uh with that you have the confidence, which is super important in our business, that you can bring.
00:14:01.519 --> 00:14:05.840
Uh you can talk to your uh bank populaire banker if you wish.
00:14:05.919 --> 00:14:07.600
Uh he's speaking the same language.
00:14:07.679 --> 00:14:15.039
Um, through PayPlug, you have uh the proximity of someone, as I said, who already works with all your service providers.
00:14:15.360 --> 00:14:22.320
Uh just try to talk to someone at Stripe uh about your uh uh your problems in France.
00:14:22.399 --> 00:14:31.919
And well, I'm sure you won't have the same custom solution, uh in terms of banking or in terms of payment or any banking needs that you need that you have.
00:14:32.159 --> 00:14:32.480
Yeah.
00:14:32.720 --> 00:14:42.960
Okay, so it's really understanding the domestic market, understanding the products and services that you have, going deeper into those layers and actually providing much more custom solutions to those clients.
00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:43.919
Yeah, absolutely.
00:14:44.080 --> 00:14:47.600
So um I want to talk a little bit about omnichannel and bundling, of course.
00:14:47.679 --> 00:14:55.679
We already mentioned it, but um, let's say you're you take a mid-sized French retailer, they have about 40 shops, a growing website.
00:14:55.840 --> 00:15:04.080
Um and currently today they're they have one provider in store and another one online, and then they have to reconcile everything by hand.
00:15:04.240 --> 00:15:06.559
I see that problem every single day of the week.
00:15:06.799 --> 00:15:09.840
Um, but let's say they move to you.
00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:11.679
What actually changes for them?
00:15:11.919 --> 00:15:32.799
Yeah, so that's exactly at the core of our value proposition is to bring those retailers into the omnichannel uh era, and uh by using our solutions, they will have all their payments at the same time in real time, I mean, uh in the same place, in the same dashboard, in the same export, in the same API.
00:15:32.960 --> 00:15:42.080
Uh so and you can act on your offline payments through your online dashboard, you can take action online to offline, offline to online.
00:15:42.559 --> 00:15:59.600
Uh so it's uh basically uh it makes your back office operation more efficient uh because financial reconciliation, accounting, payment monitoring, everything is more efficient by having everything in real time with the same form in the same place.
00:15:59.759 --> 00:16:11.120
And also your clients have a better experience because they can start uh to buy in store and finish online and do all the click and collect and uh buy online, buy buy offline, refund online.
00:16:11.519 --> 00:16:17.039
This kind of uh of journey is made possible by um by this ovnichannel value proposition.
00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:33.919
And on top of that, uh when we think about the future, uh the the next wave of ovnichannel is about social network, is about agent e-commerce, and all that, of course, uh is the things we are working on to offer uh the full-fledged payment experience to our merchants.
00:16:34.240 --> 00:16:34.799
Absolutely.
00:16:34.960 --> 00:16:44.159
Okay, so of course, a part of that logic is that payments will actually bring closer to financing and wider banking products.
00:16:44.320 --> 00:16:52.000
Um, where's the real value for a merchant in having all of those in one provider rather than just having the best in class uh separately?
00:16:52.240 --> 00:17:02.960
Yeah, um so when we do payment, uh you have a large source of real-time data, which is super useful to do financing.
00:17:03.039 --> 00:17:12.400
Um, because uh by doing the payment for the merchants, uh we know very precisely what's the situation of the company, what's the revenue, where it comes from, how it changes.
00:17:12.640 --> 00:17:27.599
And so if we execute well from here, we can be super uh precise, super accurate in doing financing uh to these specific merchants and to have a super tailored solution than that a standalone financer could not do.
00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:33.200
And the other way around, uh, how does financing help payments?
00:17:33.440 --> 00:17:48.400
It's um and uh I hope I I will not regret to do that by uh you can offer better pricing uh because uh if you bundle everything and in a bank right now, liquidity and access to deposit is uh super important.
00:17:48.640 --> 00:18:05.519
So if uh we work well with uh uh BPCE in that direction, we bring we are payment is the door to liquidity, so we bring more liquidity and the value of this liquidity, we can uh use it to be more aggressive in our pricing in payments, if you see what I mean.
00:18:05.599 --> 00:18:14.400
So that's the kind of bundle that uh makes it possible to uh to have better pricing and to have a better financing offered to the merchant.
00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:16.240
Absolutely, really get that.
00:18:16.480 --> 00:18:22.480
Um I think another topic that currently has been on everybody's mind is of course payment sovereignty, right?
00:18:22.559 --> 00:18:32.079
And I think you already mentioned, especially in France, having caught bancare, but also just the mindset of being able to operate and provide solutions within the French market.
00:18:32.319 --> 00:18:36.079
So I want to talk a little bit about sovereignty within Europe.
00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:50.160
Um, so European payment sovereignty is moving away from talk to actually building an infrastructure with Wiro, of course, rolling out uh for online payments across France this year, and account-to-account reels are starting to mature.
00:18:50.400 --> 00:18:53.359
How central is that to the strategy that you have?
00:18:53.920 --> 00:19:01.839
Uh so our um our ambition now is to take uh this uh notion of sovereignty from France to Europe.
00:19:02.160 --> 00:19:04.720
So it's uh at the core of our strategy.
00:19:04.880 --> 00:19:12.160
Uh and I think there is room to a European scheme, which is what Wiro is is trying to do.
00:19:12.400 --> 00:19:35.039
And uh I hope all the banking players in Europe will execute that well because uh there is a a need for a sovereign solution in the market right now, and uh uh that's something that the merchants uh are interested to are interested in, and there is no reason uh we remain dependent on a US solution to do payments in Europe, basically.
00:19:35.119 --> 00:19:38.640
So uh I think uh we have the right context to build that.
00:19:38.960 --> 00:19:57.039
Uh and besides, uh around the corner, there is also this uh digital euro, which is uh which might be coming in the years to come, it's not yet the hot topic of uh all the shows and the events uh and so on, but it is a hot topic uh when you uh at the European Parliament.
00:19:57.119 --> 00:20:00.559
And I think it's it's gonna it's gonna come and it's gonna be a reality.
00:20:00.720 --> 00:20:25.039
And so if we have first at our very domestic level carte bancaire and that we are able to replicate uh our expertise and our value position with Wiro and or Eurodigital, and I don't know which one is gonna succeed and how those two are gonna combine in the future, but it's there is every reason to think that there will be a European uh payment scheme at some point in time.
00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:38.400
Uh, and so we want to be first mover on this and to leverage our expertise on uh this domestic payment scheme uh that we have at the French level to uh to bring the same ambition at the European level.
00:20:38.720 --> 00:20:39.279
Absolutely.
00:20:39.440 --> 00:20:47.440
And I think the conversation that I've heard about payment sovereignty is one that payments providers, directors are always talking about.
00:20:47.599 --> 00:20:48.960
But what about merchants?
00:20:49.119 --> 00:21:01.359
Are they actually buying payments processing based on payment sovereignty or are they still mainly focused on price, acceptance rate, uh, and reliability uh to be able to go with a payments processor?
00:21:01.599 --> 00:21:03.839
Yeah, so I mean, good questions.
00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:10.319
And uh and then to be real, uh sovereignty is not the number one uh uh reason of choice of a solution.
00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:29.200
It doesn't come first, but uh as we see maybe ESG a couple of years ago uh rising up in all RFP and in all discussion with merchants, we now see sovereignty, and it's not number one uh reason to choose a solution, but I see two things with sovereignty.
00:21:29.359 --> 00:21:46.799
The first one is uh through sovereignty you're able to uh bring better resilience, better performance, uh even better user experience, and so being very focused on sovereignty opens also some uh opportunities of value for the merchant.
00:21:47.279 --> 00:21:59.759
And besides, uh these questions about sovereignty, it's uh uh it goes a little bit up and down in the market, and it depends on the of the news, of the geopolitics, and so on, and for instance.
00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:17.519
Maybe you you remember that, but a couple of months ago there was uh this uh signal with uh uh the um this uh judge, uh French judge, um whose name is uh Nicolas Guilloux, whose uh means of payment have been blocked uh by the US.
00:22:17.680 --> 00:22:23.839
And so he is a guy in Europe who cannot pay anymore with Visa and MasterCard because of uh US sanctions about him.
00:22:24.319 --> 00:22:32.240
And so that's that single, I mean that single news has bring back sovereignty a lot into every conversation.
00:22:32.319 --> 00:22:46.400
So what I'm what I'm trying to say is that uh depending on the news, it can go very quick, and depending on small factors, that uh everyone feels a concern about sovereignty, feels the risk of being dependent on uh external uh players.
00:22:46.640 --> 00:22:52.480
Uh and so, well, uh it can become a bigger subject uh in the future.
00:22:52.720 --> 00:23:02.799
I think it's already one, it's not the number one uh topic for the merchant, uh, but uh there is a uh high probability that it's more and more important in the future.
00:23:03.119 --> 00:23:03.519
Absolutely.
00:23:03.599 --> 00:23:14.559
Yeah, it's probably not everybody's favorite topic to talk about geopolitical things, but at the same time, you have to prepare for what could happen in the future, especially because things are not as uh as certain.
00:23:14.799 --> 00:23:20.400
So I want to talk a little bit about agility, especially on an industrial scale, right?
00:23:20.640 --> 00:23:28.319
So you've talked about the well, the acquisition of BPCE acquiring PayPal, Delinese coming later on to it.
00:23:28.400 --> 00:23:38.640
Um, but if you look at the history of fintech acquisition, right, it's it's full with filled with companies that uh lost their best people and their speed because a big bank absorbed them.
00:23:38.880 --> 00:23:44.400
What makes you confident that PayPal PayPal doesn't become one of those companies and actually succeed?
00:23:44.880 --> 00:24:03.759
So I'm I think that's what I'm most proud about is that uh this PayPal story is kind of unique of uh of its kind because it's been now eight years uh we've been acquired by uh BPCE and it still has its uh entrepreneurial DNA.
00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:09.279
Uh I mean it's fintech soul, and of course, people have changed.
00:24:09.519 --> 00:24:15.039
Uh we are much more industrial than we used to be in the early days, of course.
00:24:15.119 --> 00:24:18.240
Uh but the culture and the DNA have remained.
00:24:18.400 --> 00:24:26.720
And and and the single fact that I'm still here as a co-founder of the company, eight years after the acquisition, is is quite unique.
00:24:26.799 --> 00:24:30.480
And I I hope it's a kind of a proof of uh of what I'm saying.
00:24:30.559 --> 00:24:38.480
And it's true for a lot of people around me uh within PayPlug who are very much attached to this entrepreneurial uh mindset and culture.
00:24:38.720 --> 00:24:52.799
And uh another proof is that we've done this merger, PPlug and Dalinis, as we mentioned, and uh it has been a challenge because uh uh I mean a merger of two companies about the same size is always a challenge.
00:24:52.960 --> 00:25:08.160
Uh but the fact that we made it through successfully, uh I think it makes me very confident that we can replicate that and succeed in the next chapter of this journey uh with this uh BPCE larger ambitions that we are opening now.
00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:09.359
Okay, perfect.
00:25:09.599 --> 00:25:13.039
So I have two questions mostly focused about the future.
00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:20.880
So I think the first one that I really want to talk about is um if we take a little bit of a step back from pay plug, just more of the European perspective.
00:25:21.039 --> 00:25:27.359
Where do you think European payments are heading and what's the role of bank-owned players in the future?
00:25:27.920 --> 00:25:30.240
So that's a that's a big question.
00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:38.480
Um, so we have a lot of uh things that are happening right now and that may affect the way we pay in the future.
00:25:38.720 --> 00:25:45.519
And so um I think we mentioned all of them, but it's agent e-commerce, obviously, number one.
00:25:45.680 --> 00:25:53.680
Uh Wiro, um, in Europe at least, number two, and I mentioned it a couple of times, maybe digital euro down the road.
00:25:53.759 --> 00:25:55.599
Uh, but there is also stablecoin.
00:25:55.680 --> 00:26:02.640
Uh, there are many things that are like moving pieces around us that may affect the way we pay.
00:26:02.720 --> 00:26:21.759
And I think uh no one has the exact answer yet because uh at the end the decision will be made by the consumer, and no one can tell how much of your purchase you're gonna do through an agent in the future, or you're gonna do through Wii Row in the future instead of your payment card.
00:26:21.839 --> 00:26:23.759
And what about Wii Row through an agent?
00:26:23.839 --> 00:26:26.079
How is this gonna work out?
00:26:26.799 --> 00:26:38.640
Uh but uh I think from our perspective, the way we can make uh our merchant future proof is to prepare for all those possible futures, and that's what we try to do.
00:26:38.799 --> 00:26:52.960
We are working on uh on proof of concept, uh, we are doing some technical implementation, we are uh we have built our MCP server and we are doing some uh agenc uh proof of concept, we are working, as I said, on Wiro, on digital euro.
00:26:53.279 --> 00:27:13.440
So we are learning and we are implementing on all those topics because they are core to our value proposition, and that's the way we want to uh uh prepare for uh the future and to get ready for our merchants, whatever this future is, uh we will have the right solution and we will be ready for them to uh to succeed in the future.
00:27:13.680 --> 00:27:14.480
Absolutely.
00:27:14.799 --> 00:27:18.799
So, my final question, and I like to ask all of my guests this.
00:27:18.880 --> 00:27:21.599
Um, I'm a very future-focused person as well.
00:27:21.680 --> 00:27:23.920
I'm very positive always about the future.
00:27:24.160 --> 00:27:26.000
But what do you think needs to change?
00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:33.680
What needs to happen for pay plug, but overall for European payments to succeed into the future, right?
00:27:33.759 --> 00:27:36.319
Is that new legislation that needs to come in?
00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:38.960
Do we need to work together a lot more?
00:27:39.119 --> 00:27:41.440
Do we need to become much more payment sovereign?
00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:46.640
Or are there other things that are on your mind that need to change for us to be able to succeed in the future?
00:27:46.880 --> 00:27:48.079
Yeah, I think it's an easy one.
00:27:48.160 --> 00:27:51.119
It's just to have people working together.
00:27:51.359 --> 00:28:10.400
And so when we when we come to events or uh uh of gathering of uh of players of the ecosystem, we we we can see it happen, but uh it has to be a reality that banks sit around the table across Europe and work together, same as governments, same as as the public sector.
00:28:10.640 --> 00:28:17.519
And uh again, the thing that we are now have one stream about Euro and another one about digital euro.
00:28:17.759 --> 00:28:27.279
Well, it just makes me think, guys, uh let's bring all this together and let's make one solution that works for everyone, for the banks, for the public sector, for the consumer.
00:28:27.359 --> 00:28:34.799
Uh so it's just uh it's not a question of the uh uh of the specification, it's a question of the execution.
00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:51.839
And execution means uh having everyone working together and uh and trying not to be uh uh we said in French, the village gaulois, you know, the little tribes that fight one another, while you have the uh Romans that come uh well organized uh to uh conquer the country.
00:28:52.000 --> 00:28:56.240
Uh that's exactly the situation we need to overcome in Europe, I guess.
00:28:56.400 --> 00:29:06.559
It's not fighting one another, but getting everyone together and making things bigger uh so that we are able to resist and to uh uh to be there uh in the future.
00:29:06.799 --> 00:29:07.440
Fantastic.
00:29:07.599 --> 00:29:12.240
Well, I want to thank you very much for joining us here at Executive Conversations by the Papers.
00:29:12.319 --> 00:29:14.799
Um, thank you very much.
00:29:14.960 --> 00:29:15.200
Thank you.
00:29:15.359 --> 00:29:16.319
Thanks, Dwayne.
00:29:17.440 --> 00:29:21.759
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