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[Lauren Lattany] Welcome to AMGA's Executive Pulse with Dr.
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[Lauren Lattany] Brian McDonough.
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[Lauren Lattany] Each episode brings you candid conversations with the leaders
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[Lauren Lattany] innovating in healthcare delivery.
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[Lauren Lattany] Healthcare moves fast, so don't miss a beat.
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[Lauren Lattany] Let's dive in.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] Hello and welcome to Executive Pulse.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] I'm Dr.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] Brian McDonough, your host.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] I'm really excited about today's program.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] We have Dr.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] Georgia Gaveras.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] Dr.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] Gaveras is a psychiatrist.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] He is co-founder and chief medical officer at Talkiatry.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] So I want to start with the simplest question as I welcome you, Dr.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] Gaveras.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] What is Talkiatry and how do you believe it's impacting healthcare?
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So it's an easy question.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Hi, it's so nice to be here.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So, Talkiatry in its simplest
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] terms is a large psychiatric practice.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] We employ over-- gosh, at this point,
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] it's just about over 800 psychiatrists.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And then when you add some nurse practitioners and therapists,
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] we're at nearly 1,500 clinical staff.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And we are the largest national-- we're the largest employer of
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] psychiatrists in the United-- a private
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] employer of psychiatrists in the United States.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And we are purely telepsychiatry practice.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] We're in all 50 states.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And we're super excited to continue to
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] provide excellent care throughout the country.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] One of the things that I can tell you as a practicing physician is
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] that those who watch this program know I still practice.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] I talk about it all the time.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] But it's really hard for me to get a
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] psychiatrist on a referral basis when I need one.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] And clearly, there is a need.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] And I do want to ask you, what has the
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] health care system gotten wrong about psychiatry?
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] And
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] it's such an important part of a
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] patient's health journey when they need it.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] Tell me a little bit about those issues.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] I think a big part is waiting too long before
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] making sure somebody has access to a psychiatrist.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] I think, well, yes, a lot of people don't even think to go to a
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] psychiatrist unless there's a problem.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] I think what overall people should do more of-- and we do it to
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] some extent for sure-- is screen.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And more than just asking, how are you doing,
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] or doing a PHQ too, which a lot of people do.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And those are great.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] But I think that really making it just a part of routine health
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] care so people, patients, are not afraid then to say, you know
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] what, this time, yeah, I think I do
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] need to see a psychiatrist this time.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] I think we wait too long.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And we've managed in other areas-- we talk all the time about
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] prevention being the key to things like
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] cancer or diabetes or other health care needs.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] I think for psychiatry, making sure that the subtle warning signs
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] are screened for and making sure people are in a space where they
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] can say to their primary care doctor, whomever, that yeah, no, this
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] time I think I need that referral.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] I'm speaking with Dr.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] Georgia Gaveras about Talkiatry and really something that's
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] revolutionizing psychiatry and health care.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] And I see patients--
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] sometimes I get them initially and we evaluate a problem.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] But sometimes also they come to us after they've been through one,
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] two, or three primary care doctors.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] But they've also been to urgent care.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] They've been to the ED.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] They've seen different counselors.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] They've tried to get help.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] And they're on their own in the journey and
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] often feel like nobody's holding their hand.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] They come to me as a family doc and
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] say, can you assist me in this process?
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] How do we create a coordinated path for people?
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] Because you're right.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] If something happens from a cardiac standpoint
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] or oncology, we have nurses who serve as guides.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] We have people who will help.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] It's a lot difficult.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] People who probably need it and may not necessarily be equipped to
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] handle it as well on their own are forced to do it on their own.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Yeah.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And you ask them to do it on their own.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And a lot of times, by definition, sometimes mental illness is a
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] barrier to being able to do it on their own, right?
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So right there, it's like asking somebody
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] who's unconscious to find a neurologist.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] It can be really hard in the moment when you're
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] especially down to be able to navigate that system.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So one of the things that TOCI-O2
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] does is partner with health systems.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So we recognize that there's a constrained resource.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And that's a psychiatrist, unfortunately.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] There's just about-- depending on what numbers you look at, just
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] about 40,000 psychiatrists in the country.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] When you add mental health nurse practitioners, some
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] psychiatrically trained PAs, that number is still under 100,000.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And that's for the entire country, right?
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So when you're looking at 60% of counties
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] in the United States have no psychiatrists.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] When you look at things like child psychiatry, it's more like 70%
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] to 75% of counties have no child psychiatrists.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] When you look at things like geriatric psychiatrists, people are
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] shocked to know there are fewer than 2,000 geriatric psychiatrists
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] in the country when the boomers
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] are the largest growing population in
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] the United States.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And I'm Gen X, and we're getting up there, too.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So you're looking at just a severe shortage that is getting worse.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] It's not getting better.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So what we do is we partner with health systems-- that's one of the
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] things we do-- where health systems recognizing that they
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] themselves don't have enough access within their own staff say, OK,
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] let's work with somebody like us where we can refer patients.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And then if we have this partnership, we can integrate with the
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] primary care docs, for example, or the specialists-- OBGYNs, for
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] example, pediatricians-- and be able to then communicate, even
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] though we're not part of the same health system, but be able to
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] communicate with those primary care docs so that we can give
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] information back, they can give us information, better coordinate
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] care, medications, all those things that can be really difficult
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] for a patient to navigate themselves.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] We're able to do that more seamlessly.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And it also becomes just a better experience for the patient,
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] knowing that on the back end, their providers are able to speak to
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] each other and give that information back and forth.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] There is no shortage of people trying everything in the digital
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] world, the AI world, telemedicine.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] And I'm sure you're not the only person who does this.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] What separates Talkiatry from the others?
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] Obviously, you've had a great degree of
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] success, but what are the reasons why?
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] And what are the ways you separate yourself?
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Sure.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And this is not to say that other people aren't high quality.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] I don't want to say that at all.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] But I know that we are incredibly high quality.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] That's why we're successful.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] That's why our outcomes are really great.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Our patients get better.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Their insurance costs, their total costs of care go down.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And we start by hiring really, really excellent clinicians.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Whether they're psychiatrists, advanced practice nurses, or
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] therapists, we make sure that we hire
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] people that are just really, really good.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And I think if you start with a really good clinician, you have
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] that foundation upon which you can build the rest.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Again, with quality, we have a very robust quality department.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] We make sure that people are spending time with their patients.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Something as simple as allowing the doctor enough time with their
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] patient is-- it's interesting, but
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] that seems groundbreaking to some people.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] We have docs that apply to work with us, and they're shocked that
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] they have at least an hour for their intake
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] and half an hour for their follow-up visits.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] That doesn't seem like a lot of time to me to see a patient, but
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] there's been this culture of packing in as many patients as
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] possible in order to try to see as many people as possible.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] But in reality, when you give the doc and the patient enough time,
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] we found that that actually helps patients get better.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] it seems like a trade-off, but in reality, it's not a trade-off
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] because we're still able to see patients and have them develop
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] these really great relationships with their providers.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] I think that that, for us, is the most important thing.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] In the end, what we do is health care.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] That's our product.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] It's our only product, really, right now is health care.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So we want to make sure that that doctor-patient relationship is
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] effective, and there's good outcomes on both ends.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] You're watching Executive Pulse.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] I'm Dr.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] Brian McDonough, your host.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] I'm with Dr.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] Georgia Gaveras.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] We're talking about her company, Talk Kayatri.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] I got to ask you, when you created this and came up with this idea,
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] was it out of a sense of need,
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] frustration, trying to look at new ways?
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] What was your motivation?
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Yeah, so when Robert Krayn-- he's my co-founder and the CEO-- when
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] he and I got together-- and I can't
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] believe it, but it's been seven-plus years.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So in 2019, we first got together.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And he talks very openly about his
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] story of-- he's not a psychiatrist.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] He was in finance at the time, living in New York City, had
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] excellent insurance, had a traumatic event, and was looking for a
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] psychiatrist and couldn't find somebody in network.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So he had to pay out of pocket.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] He was fortunate enough to be able to do so,
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] but he thought there's got to be a better way.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And I-- we have mutual friends-- and I, at that time, was working
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] as a director of a psychiatric emergency room here in New York.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And it was interesting because, obviously, it's an emergency room.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] We get emergencies.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] But oftentimes, we'd get people that just say, I
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] don't know where to go.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] I can't find a psychiatrist.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] My primary care doc had been prescribing this medication, but he
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] tells me that I need to find a
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] psychiatrist who won't prescribe it anymore.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And I don't know what to do.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And as a psychiatrist myself, it's difficult for me and my
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] colleagues who try to have a private practice or have a private
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] practice and find that it's very, very difficult to navigate the
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] insurance world, to be able to even be in network with insurances.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So many psychiatrists, especially here in New York City, you know,
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] you find one, but they are out of network.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So you end up having to pay for it.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] A lot of people would consider it a luxury item.
00:09:52.666 --> 00:09:55.800
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And on our end, we certainly don't want that for patients, but it's
00:09:55.800 --> 00:09:57.566
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] the realities of running a small business,
00:09:57.566 --> 00:09:59.699
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] which is essentially what a private practice is.
00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:02.266
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So I had a lot of colleagues who were
00:10:02.266 --> 00:10:04.066
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] frustrated with that process as well.
00:10:04.066 --> 00:10:07.899
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And they wanted to have kind of the private practice
00:10:08.933 --> 00:10:12.066
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] but not have the administrative burden that comes with it.
00:10:12.066 --> 00:10:15.633
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So for me, it seemed like a really wonderful thing for patients,
00:10:15.766 --> 00:10:21.133
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] but it also seemed like a wonderful new kind of model for docs that
00:10:21.133 --> 00:10:25.666
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] can be employed somewhere, have kind of that private practice feel,
00:10:25.666 --> 00:10:29.066
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] but still have things like a 401(k) and paid time all the stuff
00:10:29.066 --> 00:10:30.766
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] that-- and their own health insurance, the
00:10:30.766 --> 00:10:32.333
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] stuff that goes with being employed somewhere.
00:10:32.333 --> 00:10:32.666
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So
00:10:33.699 --> 00:10:35.500
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] yeah, it seemed like something that would be
00:10:35.500 --> 00:10:37.300
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] beneficial for both the doc and the patients.
00:10:37.300 --> 00:10:42.399
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And in April of 2020-- I giggle because I can't believe that in
00:10:42.399 --> 00:10:45.766
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] April of 2020, Robert and I started a telepsychiatry practice.
00:10:45.766 --> 00:10:47.899
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] I mean, the timing was ridiculous with
00:10:47.899 --> 00:10:50.266
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] the pandemic, but we happened to be--
00:10:51.466 --> 00:10:52.733
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] we happened to provide a service that
00:10:52.733 --> 00:10:54.233
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] at the time was incredibly necessary.
00:10:54.233 --> 00:10:57.899
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So yeah, that's how it all started.
00:10:59.399 --> 00:11:02.566
[Dr. Brian McDonough] That is really interesting because I do remember those days and
00:11:02.566 --> 00:11:06.699
[Dr. Brian McDonough] even in our office trying to find ways to use telehealth to reach
00:11:06.699 --> 00:11:09.100
[Dr. Brian McDonough] our patients to reduce the risk of
00:11:09.100 --> 00:11:10.899
[Dr. Brian McDonough] people coming in and infecting each other.
00:11:10.899 --> 00:11:12.233
[Dr. Brian McDonough] It was a very stressful time.
00:11:12.333 --> 00:11:12.566
[Dr. Brian McDonough] Oh, absolutely.
00:11:13.266 --> 00:11:13.666
[Dr. Brian McDonough] We all know.
00:11:13.699 --> 00:11:15.466
[Dr. Brian McDonough] I think we all put that in the past to
00:11:15.466 --> 00:11:17.933
[Dr. Brian McDonough] try not to even think about it these days.
00:11:17.933 --> 00:11:21.933
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] But-- I call it the hoarding toilet paper phase of the pandemic.
00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:22.566
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Remember that one?
00:11:23.300 --> 00:11:24.399
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] It was a crazy time.
00:11:24.533 --> 00:11:29.266
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] I mean, we'd never-- no one had ever experienced it before.
00:11:29.433 --> 00:11:31.399
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] God willing, no one will ever experience it again.
00:11:31.733 --> 00:11:33.133
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] But we were home with toilet paper
00:11:33.133 --> 00:11:35.899
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] and Tiger King, and we made it through.
00:11:36.233 --> 00:11:39.199
[Dr. Brian McDonough] By the way, one of the things about AMGA that I've noticed in doing
00:11:39.199 --> 00:11:42.833
[Dr. Brian McDonough] these podcasts and have learned is the incredible reach with so
00:11:42.833 --> 00:11:46.166
[Dr. Brian McDonough] many thought leaders and people from health systems.
00:11:46.899 --> 00:11:49.100
[Dr. Brian McDonough] So I'm sure they're watching this as well.
00:11:49.100 --> 00:11:49.699
[Dr. Brian McDonough] I hope they are.
00:11:49.966 --> 00:11:52.866
[Dr. Brian McDonough] And when they're watching it, they're probably looking at it and
00:11:52.866 --> 00:11:59.199
[Dr. Brian McDonough] saying, OK, what does talk entry present for us that might be
00:11:59.199 --> 00:12:01.300
[Dr. Brian McDonough] different or fit with our system,
00:12:01.300 --> 00:12:03.199
[Dr. Brian McDonough] flexibility, those sorts of things?
00:12:03.766 --> 00:12:05.066
[Dr. Brian McDonough] Let's address that for a second.
00:12:05.566 --> 00:12:05.866
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Sure.
00:12:07.500 --> 00:12:10.833
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] At AMGA, where we've met before and where I've met many people from
00:12:10.833 --> 00:12:11.966
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] lots of different health systems,
00:12:13.800 --> 00:12:17.533
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] AMGA is an amazing place where you can talk about things that you
00:12:17.533 --> 00:12:18.833
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] didn't even realize you needed to talk
00:12:18.833 --> 00:12:21.466
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] about with other health systems and colleagues.
00:12:22.566 --> 00:12:26.433
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] But what we offer is beyond access.
00:12:26.699 --> 00:12:30.333
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] I think for a lot of people, for a long time, it was about access.
00:12:30.333 --> 00:12:33.100
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And access, we like to say-- that's table stakes, right?
00:12:33.133 --> 00:12:34.633
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] What do you go beyond access?
00:12:34.966 --> 00:12:39.066
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And over time, we've looked at our outcomes, and we looked at cost
00:12:39.066 --> 00:12:40.533
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] savings, and we looked at our quality.
00:12:40.533 --> 00:12:44.733
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So not only do you get access full stop, but you get access to
00:12:45.899 --> 00:12:46.733
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] good care.
00:12:46.833 --> 00:12:49.199
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] In the end, you're a physician.
00:12:49.266 --> 00:12:52.533
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] When you refer someone, you want to make sure that you're referring
00:12:52.833 --> 00:12:56.300
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] the patient to someone that is going to give them good care.
00:12:56.633 --> 00:13:02.500
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] The analogy I always use is if you get a referral for our movie
00:13:02.533 --> 00:13:03.633
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] from a friend of yours that's a
00:13:03.633 --> 00:13:05.866
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] terrible movie, you actually judge your friend.
00:13:05.899 --> 00:13:07.100
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] How could they like this movie?
00:13:07.100 --> 00:13:10.600
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So as a physician, if I'm referring my patient to someone, I want
00:13:10.600 --> 00:13:11.433
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] to make sure that they're going
00:13:11.433 --> 00:13:12.766
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] somewhere where they can get good care.
00:13:13.100 --> 00:13:16.866
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So Talkiatry, when we partner with some health systems, they can
00:13:16.866 --> 00:13:18.699
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] be sure that we're giving those
00:13:18.699 --> 00:13:20.366
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] patients excellent care, just like they are.
00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:23.199
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So that's a big part, I think, of
00:13:23.199 --> 00:13:25.033
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] what makes it an attractive relationship.
00:13:25.033 --> 00:13:25.399
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And
00:13:26.766 --> 00:13:27.866
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] there's nothing else to it.
00:13:28.100 --> 00:13:29.800
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] It's a partnership in that way.
00:13:29.833 --> 00:13:34.533
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] There's no requirements on either side for anything other than
00:13:34.833 --> 00:13:39.500
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] being another service, another place where that health system can
00:13:39.500 --> 00:13:42.933
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] get more access for their patients and get really good care.
00:13:44.000 --> 00:13:46.933
[Dr. Brian McDonough] One of the things you are doing, and I
00:13:46.933 --> 00:13:48.866
[Dr. Brian McDonough] think it's important, is you're also expanding.
00:13:48.866 --> 00:13:51.033
[Dr. Brian McDonough] You initially started psychiatry
00:13:51.433 --> 00:13:53.500
[Dr. Brian McDonough] talking more about therapy and those things.
00:13:53.500 --> 00:13:58.133
[Dr. Brian McDonough] Tell me about the latest developments, and I wouldn't call a newer
00:13:58.133 --> 00:14:00.199
[Dr. Brian McDonough] venture, but certainly an expansion to what you're doing.
00:14:00.766 --> 00:14:01.133
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Sure.
00:14:01.933 --> 00:14:03.699
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Actually, I'm in the offices right now.
00:14:03.699 --> 00:14:05.366
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] We do have offices in New York.
00:14:05.533 --> 00:14:07.600
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And originally, this was-- because
00:14:07.600 --> 00:14:10.033
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] remember, 2019, we felt we'd be in person at first.
00:14:10.333 --> 00:14:10.899
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So
00:14:12.133 --> 00:14:13.533
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] we decided-- we were starting with
00:14:13.533 --> 00:14:16.300
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] psychiatrists because that's really the resource that
00:14:17.533 --> 00:14:18.300
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] was constrained.
00:14:18.300 --> 00:14:21.866
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] It's obviously I'm a psychiatrist, and we would start there.
00:14:21.866 --> 00:14:25.800
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And then very quickly, we realized, within about a year, we
00:14:25.800 --> 00:14:29.033
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] realized that that's not enough, and we
00:14:29.033 --> 00:14:31.366
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] started looking at expanding into therapy.
00:14:31.366 --> 00:14:33.800
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] But our therapists are really working specifically with the
00:14:33.800 --> 00:14:36.600
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] patients that were coming here to see somebody
00:14:36.966 --> 00:14:39.899
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] for psychiatric care, for medication management.
00:14:40.300 --> 00:14:43.600
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Over time, we found that a lot of
00:14:43.600 --> 00:14:45.733
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] people really just wanted therapy.
00:14:46.966 --> 00:14:51.333
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] But the thing is, when somebody comes to you, they may only want
00:14:51.333 --> 00:14:53.399
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] therapy, but would really benefit from medication.
00:14:53.533 --> 00:14:55.066
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] We've had people come from medication
00:14:55.266 --> 00:14:57.466
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] only that would really benefit from therapy.
00:14:57.466 --> 00:15:02.133
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And we found that the ability to then have people enter, whether
00:15:02.133 --> 00:15:04.433
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] it's in therapy or with medication, and
00:15:04.433 --> 00:15:06.666
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] then be able to be referred to the other
00:15:07.866 --> 00:15:10.000
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] service was actually something that was really valuable.
00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:14.833
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So we are now working-- again, this comes mostly from our partners,
00:15:14.833 --> 00:15:17.533
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] but we're starting to look at what we call therapy entry, so for
00:15:17.533 --> 00:15:20.100
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] people that are coming specifically for therapy.
00:15:20.733 --> 00:15:22.466
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And as a psychiatrist, I can tell you, people
00:15:22.466 --> 00:15:24.733
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] start with therapy often, not wanting medication.
00:15:24.966 --> 00:15:28.033
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] But after doing therapy for a while, they do find that medication
00:15:28.033 --> 00:15:29.933
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] might be helpful for them, and now we have
00:15:29.933 --> 00:15:31.833
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] that ability to send patients back and forth.
00:15:32.533 --> 00:15:36.833
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Really, this comes from wanting to just expand the spectrum of
00:15:36.833 --> 00:15:39.633
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] services that are provided within behavioral health.
00:15:40.199 --> 00:15:44.733
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Behavioral health is-- there is such a broad range, everything from
00:15:44.733 --> 00:15:47.866
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] really just counseling or coaching
00:15:47.866 --> 00:15:50.500
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] all the way through to residential care.
00:15:50.899 --> 00:15:53.266
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] There's a wide spectrum of care in psychiatry.
00:15:53.633 --> 00:15:56.533
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And we want it, even though we started with that sliver of
00:15:56.566 --> 00:15:59.199
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] outpatient psychiatric care, we want them
00:15:59.199 --> 00:16:01.533
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] to start looking at ways to expand that.
00:16:01.633 --> 00:16:03.466
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So more and more, you can come to
00:16:03.466 --> 00:16:06.666
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] TOCI-ITRE and have a wider range of services.
00:16:06.933 --> 00:16:08.866
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Another thing that we're starting to do is we're
00:16:08.866 --> 00:16:11.233
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] starting to pilot an intensive outpatient program.
00:16:11.533 --> 00:16:15.733
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] We're piloting more substance use services, and we're trying to see
00:16:15.733 --> 00:16:17.500
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] how we can incorporate those more
00:16:17.766 --> 00:16:20.066
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] into what we provide for our patients.
00:16:20.366 --> 00:16:24.033
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] My background is in addiction as well, I wanted to see what else we
00:16:24.033 --> 00:16:25.899
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] can do for our patients that require
00:16:27.433 --> 00:16:29.233
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] that dual care.
00:16:30.766 --> 00:16:34.833
[Dr. Brian McDonough] I know you're triple board certified, I think, adolescent
00:16:34.833 --> 00:16:37.733
[Dr. Brian McDonough] psychiatry, adult psychiatry, addiction medicine.
00:16:38.100 --> 00:16:39.366
[Dr. Brian McDonough] You're doing this.
00:16:39.433 --> 00:16:41.500
[Dr. Brian McDonough] I've asked you a lot of questions.
00:16:41.866 --> 00:16:45.699
[Dr. Brian McDonough] What didn't I ask you that you really wanted to talk about that we
00:16:45.699 --> 00:16:48.133
[Dr. Brian McDonough] haven't talked about yet while we have this opportunity?
00:16:48.699 --> 00:16:52.033
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Yeah, I think that mental health is interesting.
00:16:52.033 --> 00:16:55.366
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] I think that there was very little for a
00:16:55.366 --> 00:16:58.966
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] very long time that changed for a long time.
00:16:58.966 --> 00:17:00.133
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] It was basically what Freud was
00:17:00.133 --> 00:17:01.866
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] doing, sitting down with a pen and paper.
00:17:02.199 --> 00:17:03.833
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And that's only if you didn't have a good memory.
00:17:03.833 --> 00:17:05.898
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Like you had good memories, people didn't even need that.
00:17:07.032 --> 00:17:09.133
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And then it went really, really fast.
00:17:09.133 --> 00:17:13.165
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So now we're looking at so many other things, both pharmaceuticals,
00:17:14.032 --> 00:17:16.633
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] therapy modalities, AI, all those things are
00:17:16.633 --> 00:17:18.800
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] really becoming integrated in behavioral health.
00:17:19.066 --> 00:17:22.800
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] I think a big part of that is just an acknowledgement that the
00:17:22.800 --> 00:17:26.099
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] investment needs to go into behavioral health care, both because
00:17:26.266 --> 00:17:29.833
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] behavioral health care is just important on its own, if people have
00:17:29.866 --> 00:17:31.866
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] a mental health need, then they should be able to beat it.
00:17:32.199 --> 00:17:36.733
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] But also the recognition that addressing mental health care
00:17:37.733 --> 00:17:41.533
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] or addressing mental health is just beneficial to overall health
00:17:41.733 --> 00:17:44.633
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] care, overall physical health, health care costs.
00:17:45.466 --> 00:17:48.966
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So I think that it's been really great to see that.
00:17:48.966 --> 00:17:52.666
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] You mentioned before, I've been practicing now for over 20 years.
00:17:52.966 --> 00:17:53.533
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And
00:17:54.600 --> 00:17:56.266
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] when I started, there were just a couple of people
00:17:56.266 --> 00:17:58.033
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] in my class that were even going into psychiatry.
00:17:58.033 --> 00:18:01.000
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Now it's becoming a lot more popular and a lot more difficult to
00:18:01.000 --> 00:18:02.533
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] get into psych residency programs.
00:18:02.833 --> 00:18:05.399
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So there's really an acknowledgement of how important it is.
00:18:06.366 --> 00:18:09.000
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And we're looking at ways that we can expand as well, not just our
00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:12.133
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] services, but in technology, how can we incorporate AI?
00:18:12.500 --> 00:18:15.133
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] We'd be remiss not to think about how AI
00:18:15.699 --> 00:18:18.733
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] can be incorporated into a company like ours.
00:18:18.733 --> 00:18:20.033
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So we're exploring that.
00:18:20.033 --> 00:18:22.033
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] We've already started on the administrative side.
00:18:22.166 --> 00:18:25.199
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Something as simple as an AI scribe can
00:18:25.199 --> 00:18:29.633
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] be shockingly useful for psychiatrists.
00:18:29.633 --> 00:18:34.333
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And it's a relatively small thing that just makes an exponential
00:18:34.333 --> 00:18:38.333
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] effect on a doc's ability to
00:18:38.333 --> 00:18:41.899
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] provide care on their job satisfaction.
00:18:42.766 --> 00:18:45.399
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] We could do a whole other podcast and physician burnout, right?
00:18:45.866 --> 00:18:47.600
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So being able to help docs
00:18:49.033 --> 00:18:50.433
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] throughout their day on those kinds
00:18:50.433 --> 00:18:52.233
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] of things has been just game-changing.
00:18:52.433 --> 00:18:55.000
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] But we're also looking at how people
00:18:55.000 --> 00:18:56.766
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] are using AI in their lives, right?
00:18:56.766 --> 00:18:58.166
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Some people use it as a therapist.
00:18:58.433 --> 00:19:01.500
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Some people have problematic use, right?
00:19:01.500 --> 00:19:03.199
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Just like with anything else, if you give
00:19:03.199 --> 00:19:06.266
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] somebody something new, it can be problematic as well.
00:19:06.266 --> 00:19:10.366
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So we're really looking at all those things and how they affect
00:19:10.633 --> 00:19:15.433
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] patients, how they affect doctors, and how we can use them in a
00:19:15.433 --> 00:19:17.899
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] responsible way and be a thought leader as well.
00:19:18.399 --> 00:19:19.566
[Dr. Brian McDonough] I wanna thank Dr.
00:19:19.766 --> 00:19:22.500
[Dr. Brian McDonough] Georgia Gaveras, she is co-founder and
00:19:22.500 --> 00:19:24.666
[Dr. Brian McDonough] chief medical officer at Talkiatry.
00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:25.699
[Dr. Brian McDonough] Thanks for being here.
00:19:25.699 --> 00:19:27.033
[Dr. Brian McDonough] I really appreciate your time.
00:19:27.033 --> 00:19:28.033
[Dr. Brian McDonough] I know how busy you are.
00:19:28.033 --> 00:19:29.033
[Dr. Brian McDonough] It was just great to have you.
00:19:29.333 --> 00:19:30.800
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] It's absolutely wonderful to be here.
00:19:30.800 --> 00:19:31.633
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Thank you so much.
00:19:31.633 --> 00:19:32.733
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Hopefully I'll see you again soon.
00:19:33.199 --> 00:19:34.033
[Dr. Brian McDonough] Looking forward to it.
00:19:34.066 --> 00:19:35.666
[Dr. Brian McDonough] Thank you again for joining us.
00:19:35.866 --> 00:19:37.933
[Lauren Lattany] Thank you for joining us for Executive Pulse.
00:19:38.233 --> 00:19:39.966
[Lauren Lattany] This podcast is brought to you by AMGA.
00:19:40.399 --> 00:19:43.133
[Lauren Lattany] For more information, please visit amga.org.
00:00:00.133 --> 00:00:02.366
[Lauren Lattany] Welcome to AMGA's Executive Pulse with Dr.
00:00:02.400 --> 00:00:03.133
[Lauren Lattany] Brian McDonough.
00:00:03.400 --> 00:00:05.933
[Lauren Lattany] Each episode brings you candid conversations with the leaders
00:00:06.000 --> 00:00:07.433
[Lauren Lattany] innovating in healthcare delivery.
00:00:07.733 --> 00:00:09.800
[Lauren Lattany] Healthcare moves fast, so don't miss a beat.
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[Lauren Lattany] Let's dive in.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] Hello and welcome to Executive Pulse.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] I'm Dr.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] Brian McDonough, your host.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] I'm really excited about today's program.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] We have Dr.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] Georgia Gaveras.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] Dr.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] Gaveras is a psychiatrist.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] He is co-founder and chief medical officer at Talkiatry.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] So I want to start with the simplest question as I welcome you, Dr.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] Gaveras.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] What is Talkiatry and how do you believe it's impacting healthcare?
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So it's an easy question.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Hi, it's so nice to be here.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So, Talkiatry in its simplest
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] terms is a large psychiatric practice.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] We employ over-- gosh, at this point,
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] it's just about over 800 psychiatrists.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And then when you add some nurse practitioners and therapists,
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] we're at nearly 1,500 clinical staff.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And we are the largest national-- we're the largest employer of
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] psychiatrists in the United-- a private
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] employer of psychiatrists in the United States.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And we are purely telepsychiatry practice.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] We're in all 50 states.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And we're super excited to continue to
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] provide excellent care throughout the country.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] One of the things that I can tell you as a practicing physician is
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] that those who watch this program know I still practice.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] I talk about it all the time.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] But it's really hard for me to get a
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] psychiatrist on a referral basis when I need one.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] And clearly, there is a need.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] And I do want to ask you, what has the
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] health care system gotten wrong about psychiatry?
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] And
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] it's such an important part of a
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] patient's health journey when they need it.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] Tell me a little bit about those issues.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] I think a big part is waiting too long before
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] making sure somebody has access to a psychiatrist.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] I think, well, yes, a lot of people don't even think to go to a
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] psychiatrist unless there's a problem.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] I think what overall people should do more of-- and we do it to
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] some extent for sure-- is screen.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And more than just asking, how are you doing,
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] or doing a PHQ too, which a lot of people do.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And those are great.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] But I think that really making it just a part of routine health
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] care so people, patients, are not afraid then to say, you know
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] what, this time, yeah, I think I do
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] need to see a psychiatrist this time.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] I think we wait too long.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And we've managed in other areas-- we talk all the time about
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] prevention being the key to things like
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] cancer or diabetes or other health care needs.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] I think for psychiatry, making sure that the subtle warning signs
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] are screened for and making sure people are in a space where they
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] can say to their primary care doctor, whomever, that yeah, no, this
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] time I think I need that referral.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] I'm speaking with Dr.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] Georgia Gaveras about Talkiatry and really something that's
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] revolutionizing psychiatry and health care.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] And I see patients--
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] sometimes I get them initially and we evaluate a problem.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] But sometimes also they come to us after they've been through one,
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] two, or three primary care doctors.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] But they've also been to urgent care.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] They've been to the ED.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] They've seen different counselors.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] They've tried to get help.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] And they're on their own in the journey and
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] often feel like nobody's holding their hand.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] They come to me as a family doc and
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] say, can you assist me in this process?
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] How do we create a coordinated path for people?
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] Because you're right.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] If something happens from a cardiac standpoint
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] or oncology, we have nurses who serve as guides.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] We have people who will help.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] It's a lot difficult.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] People who probably need it and may not necessarily be equipped to
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] handle it as well on their own are forced to do it on their own.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Yeah.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And you ask them to do it on their own.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And a lot of times, by definition, sometimes mental illness is a
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] barrier to being able to do it on their own, right?
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So right there, it's like asking somebody
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] who's unconscious to find a neurologist.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] It can be really hard in the moment when you're
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] especially down to be able to navigate that system.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So one of the things that TOCI-O2
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] does is partner with health systems.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So we recognize that there's a constrained resource.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And that's a psychiatrist, unfortunately.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] There's just about-- depending on what numbers you look at, just
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] about 40,000 psychiatrists in the country.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] When you add mental health nurse practitioners, some
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] psychiatrically trained PAs, that number is still under 100,000.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And that's for the entire country, right?
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So when you're looking at 60% of counties
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] in the United States have no psychiatrists.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] When you look at things like child psychiatry, it's more like 70%
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] to 75% of counties have no child psychiatrists.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] When you look at things like geriatric psychiatrists, people are
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] shocked to know there are fewer than 2,000 geriatric psychiatrists
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] in the country when the boomers
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] are the largest growing population in
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] the United States.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And I'm Gen X, and we're getting up there, too.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So you're looking at just a severe shortage that is getting worse.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] It's not getting better.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So what we do is we partner with health systems-- that's one of the
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] things we do-- where health systems recognizing that they
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] themselves don't have enough access within their own staff say, OK,
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] let's work with somebody like us where we can refer patients.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And then if we have this partnership, we can integrate with the
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] primary care docs, for example, or the specialists-- OBGYNs, for
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] example, pediatricians-- and be able to then communicate, even
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] though we're not part of the same health system, but be able to
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] communicate with those primary care docs so that we can give
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] information back, they can give us information, better coordinate
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] care, medications, all those things that can be really difficult
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] for a patient to navigate themselves.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] We're able to do that more seamlessly.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And it also becomes just a better experience for the patient,
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] knowing that on the back end, their providers are able to speak to
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] each other and give that information back and forth.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] There is no shortage of people trying everything in the digital
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] world, the AI world, telemedicine.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] And I'm sure you're not the only person who does this.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] What separates Talkiatry from the others?
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] Obviously, you've had a great degree of
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] success, but what are the reasons why?
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] And what are the ways you separate yourself?
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Sure.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And this is not to say that other people aren't high quality.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] I don't want to say that at all.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] But I know that we are incredibly high quality.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] That's why we're successful.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] That's why our outcomes are really great.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Our patients get better.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Their insurance costs, their total costs of care go down.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And we start by hiring really, really excellent clinicians.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Whether they're psychiatrists, advanced practice nurses, or
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] therapists, we make sure that we hire
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] people that are just really, really good.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And I think if you start with a really good clinician, you have
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] that foundation upon which you can build the rest.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Again, with quality, we have a very robust quality department.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] We make sure that people are spending time with their patients.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Something as simple as allowing the doctor enough time with their
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] patient is-- it's interesting, but
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] that seems groundbreaking to some people.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] We have docs that apply to work with us, and they're shocked that
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] they have at least an hour for their intake
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] and half an hour for their follow-up visits.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] That doesn't seem like a lot of time to me to see a patient, but
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] there's been this culture of packing in as many patients as
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] possible in order to try to see as many people as possible.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] But in reality, when you give the doc and the patient enough time,
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] we found that that actually helps patients get better.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] it seems like a trade-off, but in reality, it's not a trade-off
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] because we're still able to see patients and have them develop
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] these really great relationships with their providers.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] I think that that, for us, is the most important thing.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] In the end, what we do is health care.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] That's our product.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] It's our only product, really, right now is health care.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So we want to make sure that that doctor-patient relationship is
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] effective, and there's good outcomes on both ends.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] You're watching Executive Pulse.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] I'm Dr.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] Brian McDonough, your host.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] I'm with Dr.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] Georgia Gaveras.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] We're talking about her company, Talk Kayatri.
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] I got to ask you, when you created this and came up with this idea,
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] was it out of a sense of need,
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] frustration, trying to look at new ways?
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[Dr. Brian McDonough] What was your motivation?
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Yeah, so when Robert Krayn-- he's my co-founder and the CEO-- when
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] he and I got together-- and I can't
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] believe it, but it's been seven-plus years.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So in 2019, we first got together.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And he talks very openly about his
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] story of-- he's not a psychiatrist.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] He was in finance at the time, living in New York City, had
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] excellent insurance, had a traumatic event, and was looking for a
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] psychiatrist and couldn't find somebody in network.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So he had to pay out of pocket.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] He was fortunate enough to be able to do so,
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] but he thought there's got to be a better way.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And I-- we have mutual friends-- and I, at that time, was working
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] as a director of a psychiatric emergency room here in New York.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And it was interesting because, obviously, it's an emergency room.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] We get emergencies.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] But oftentimes, we'd get people that just say, I
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] don't know where to go.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] I can't find a psychiatrist.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] My primary care doc had been prescribing this medication, but he
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] tells me that I need to find a
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] psychiatrist who won't prescribe it anymore.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And I don't know what to do.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And as a psychiatrist myself, it's difficult for me and my
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] colleagues who try to have a private practice or have a private
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] practice and find that it's very, very difficult to navigate the
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] insurance world, to be able to even be in network with insurances.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So many psychiatrists, especially here in New York City, you know,
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] you find one, but they are out of network.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So you end up having to pay for it.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] A lot of people would consider it a luxury item.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And on our end, we certainly don't want that for patients, but it's
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] the realities of running a small business,
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] which is essentially what a private practice is.
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[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So I had a lot of colleagues who were
00:10:02.266 --> 00:10:04.066
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] frustrated with that process as well.
00:10:04.066 --> 00:10:07.899
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And they wanted to have kind of the private practice
00:10:08.933 --> 00:10:12.066
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] but not have the administrative burden that comes with it.
00:10:12.066 --> 00:10:15.633
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So for me, it seemed like a really wonderful thing for patients,
00:10:15.766 --> 00:10:21.133
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] but it also seemed like a wonderful new kind of model for docs that
00:10:21.133 --> 00:10:25.666
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] can be employed somewhere, have kind of that private practice feel,
00:10:25.666 --> 00:10:29.066
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] but still have things like a 401(k) and paid time all the stuff
00:10:29.066 --> 00:10:30.766
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] that-- and their own health insurance, the
00:10:30.766 --> 00:10:32.333
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] stuff that goes with being employed somewhere.
00:10:32.333 --> 00:10:32.666
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So
00:10:33.699 --> 00:10:35.500
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] yeah, it seemed like something that would be
00:10:35.500 --> 00:10:37.300
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] beneficial for both the doc and the patients.
00:10:37.300 --> 00:10:42.399
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And in April of 2020-- I giggle because I can't believe that in
00:10:42.399 --> 00:10:45.766
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] April of 2020, Robert and I started a telepsychiatry practice.
00:10:45.766 --> 00:10:47.899
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] I mean, the timing was ridiculous with
00:10:47.899 --> 00:10:50.266
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] the pandemic, but we happened to be--
00:10:51.466 --> 00:10:52.733
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] we happened to provide a service that
00:10:52.733 --> 00:10:54.233
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] at the time was incredibly necessary.
00:10:54.233 --> 00:10:57.899
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So yeah, that's how it all started.
00:10:59.399 --> 00:11:02.566
[Dr. Brian McDonough] That is really interesting because I do remember those days and
00:11:02.566 --> 00:11:06.699
[Dr. Brian McDonough] even in our office trying to find ways to use telehealth to reach
00:11:06.699 --> 00:11:09.100
[Dr. Brian McDonough] our patients to reduce the risk of
00:11:09.100 --> 00:11:10.899
[Dr. Brian McDonough] people coming in and infecting each other.
00:11:10.899 --> 00:11:12.233
[Dr. Brian McDonough] It was a very stressful time.
00:11:12.333 --> 00:11:12.566
[Dr. Brian McDonough] Oh, absolutely.
00:11:13.266 --> 00:11:13.666
[Dr. Brian McDonough] We all know.
00:11:13.699 --> 00:11:15.466
[Dr. Brian McDonough] I think we all put that in the past to
00:11:15.466 --> 00:11:17.933
[Dr. Brian McDonough] try not to even think about it these days.
00:11:17.933 --> 00:11:21.933
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] But-- I call it the hoarding toilet paper phase of the pandemic.
00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:22.566
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Remember that one?
00:11:23.300 --> 00:11:24.399
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] It was a crazy time.
00:11:24.533 --> 00:11:29.266
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] I mean, we'd never-- no one had ever experienced it before.
00:11:29.433 --> 00:11:31.399
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] God willing, no one will ever experience it again.
00:11:31.733 --> 00:11:33.133
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] But we were home with toilet paper
00:11:33.133 --> 00:11:35.899
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] and Tiger King, and we made it through.
00:11:36.233 --> 00:11:39.199
[Dr. Brian McDonough] By the way, one of the things about AMGA that I've noticed in doing
00:11:39.199 --> 00:11:42.833
[Dr. Brian McDonough] these podcasts and have learned is the incredible reach with so
00:11:42.833 --> 00:11:46.166
[Dr. Brian McDonough] many thought leaders and people from health systems.
00:11:46.899 --> 00:11:49.100
[Dr. Brian McDonough] So I'm sure they're watching this as well.
00:11:49.100 --> 00:11:49.699
[Dr. Brian McDonough] I hope they are.
00:11:49.966 --> 00:11:52.866
[Dr. Brian McDonough] And when they're watching it, they're probably looking at it and
00:11:52.866 --> 00:11:59.199
[Dr. Brian McDonough] saying, OK, what does talk entry present for us that might be
00:11:59.199 --> 00:12:01.300
[Dr. Brian McDonough] different or fit with our system,
00:12:01.300 --> 00:12:03.199
[Dr. Brian McDonough] flexibility, those sorts of things?
00:12:03.766 --> 00:12:05.066
[Dr. Brian McDonough] Let's address that for a second.
00:12:05.566 --> 00:12:05.866
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Sure.
00:12:07.500 --> 00:12:10.833
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] At AMGA, where we've met before and where I've met many people from
00:12:10.833 --> 00:12:11.966
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] lots of different health systems,
00:12:13.800 --> 00:12:17.533
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] AMGA is an amazing place where you can talk about things that you
00:12:17.533 --> 00:12:18.833
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] didn't even realize you needed to talk
00:12:18.833 --> 00:12:21.466
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] about with other health systems and colleagues.
00:12:22.566 --> 00:12:26.433
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] But what we offer is beyond access.
00:12:26.699 --> 00:12:30.333
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] I think for a lot of people, for a long time, it was about access.
00:12:30.333 --> 00:12:33.100
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And access, we like to say-- that's table stakes, right?
00:12:33.133 --> 00:12:34.633
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] What do you go beyond access?
00:12:34.966 --> 00:12:39.066
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And over time, we've looked at our outcomes, and we looked at cost
00:12:39.066 --> 00:12:40.533
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] savings, and we looked at our quality.
00:12:40.533 --> 00:12:44.733
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So not only do you get access full stop, but you get access to
00:12:45.899 --> 00:12:46.733
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] good care.
00:12:46.833 --> 00:12:49.199
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] In the end, you're a physician.
00:12:49.266 --> 00:12:52.533
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] When you refer someone, you want to make sure that you're referring
00:12:52.833 --> 00:12:56.300
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] the patient to someone that is going to give them good care.
00:12:56.633 --> 00:13:02.500
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] The analogy I always use is if you get a referral for our movie
00:13:02.533 --> 00:13:03.633
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] from a friend of yours that's a
00:13:03.633 --> 00:13:05.866
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] terrible movie, you actually judge your friend.
00:13:05.899 --> 00:13:07.100
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] How could they like this movie?
00:13:07.100 --> 00:13:10.600
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So as a physician, if I'm referring my patient to someone, I want
00:13:10.600 --> 00:13:11.433
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] to make sure that they're going
00:13:11.433 --> 00:13:12.766
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] somewhere where they can get good care.
00:13:13.100 --> 00:13:16.866
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So Talkiatry, when we partner with some health systems, they can
00:13:16.866 --> 00:13:18.699
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] be sure that we're giving those
00:13:18.699 --> 00:13:20.366
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] patients excellent care, just like they are.
00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:23.199
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So that's a big part, I think, of
00:13:23.199 --> 00:13:25.033
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] what makes it an attractive relationship.
00:13:25.033 --> 00:13:25.399
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And
00:13:26.766 --> 00:13:27.866
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] there's nothing else to it.
00:13:28.100 --> 00:13:29.800
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] It's a partnership in that way.
00:13:29.833 --> 00:13:34.533
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] There's no requirements on either side for anything other than
00:13:34.833 --> 00:13:39.500
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] being another service, another place where that health system can
00:13:39.500 --> 00:13:42.933
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] get more access for their patients and get really good care.
00:13:44.000 --> 00:13:46.933
[Dr. Brian McDonough] One of the things you are doing, and I
00:13:46.933 --> 00:13:48.866
[Dr. Brian McDonough] think it's important, is you're also expanding.
00:13:48.866 --> 00:13:51.033
[Dr. Brian McDonough] You initially started psychiatry
00:13:51.433 --> 00:13:53.500
[Dr. Brian McDonough] talking more about therapy and those things.
00:13:53.500 --> 00:13:58.133
[Dr. Brian McDonough] Tell me about the latest developments, and I wouldn't call a newer
00:13:58.133 --> 00:14:00.199
[Dr. Brian McDonough] venture, but certainly an expansion to what you're doing.
00:14:00.766 --> 00:14:01.133
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Sure.
00:14:01.933 --> 00:14:03.699
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Actually, I'm in the offices right now.
00:14:03.699 --> 00:14:05.366
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] We do have offices in New York.
00:14:05.533 --> 00:14:07.600
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And originally, this was-- because
00:14:07.600 --> 00:14:10.033
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] remember, 2019, we felt we'd be in person at first.
00:14:10.333 --> 00:14:10.899
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So
00:14:12.133 --> 00:14:13.533
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] we decided-- we were starting with
00:14:13.533 --> 00:14:16.300
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] psychiatrists because that's really the resource that
00:14:17.533 --> 00:14:18.300
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] was constrained.
00:14:18.300 --> 00:14:21.866
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] It's obviously I'm a psychiatrist, and we would start there.
00:14:21.866 --> 00:14:25.800
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And then very quickly, we realized, within about a year, we
00:14:25.800 --> 00:14:29.033
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] realized that that's not enough, and we
00:14:29.033 --> 00:14:31.366
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] started looking at expanding into therapy.
00:14:31.366 --> 00:14:33.800
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] But our therapists are really working specifically with the
00:14:33.800 --> 00:14:36.600
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] patients that were coming here to see somebody
00:14:36.966 --> 00:14:39.899
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] for psychiatric care, for medication management.
00:14:40.300 --> 00:14:43.600
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Over time, we found that a lot of
00:14:43.600 --> 00:14:45.733
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] people really just wanted therapy.
00:14:46.966 --> 00:14:51.333
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] But the thing is, when somebody comes to you, they may only want
00:14:51.333 --> 00:14:53.399
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] therapy, but would really benefit from medication.
00:14:53.533 --> 00:14:55.066
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] We've had people come from medication
00:14:55.266 --> 00:14:57.466
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] only that would really benefit from therapy.
00:14:57.466 --> 00:15:02.133
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And we found that the ability to then have people enter, whether
00:15:02.133 --> 00:15:04.433
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] it's in therapy or with medication, and
00:15:04.433 --> 00:15:06.666
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] then be able to be referred to the other
00:15:07.866 --> 00:15:10.000
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] service was actually something that was really valuable.
00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:14.833
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So we are now working-- again, this comes mostly from our partners,
00:15:14.833 --> 00:15:17.533
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] but we're starting to look at what we call therapy entry, so for
00:15:17.533 --> 00:15:20.100
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] people that are coming specifically for therapy.
00:15:20.733 --> 00:15:22.466
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And as a psychiatrist, I can tell you, people
00:15:22.466 --> 00:15:24.733
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] start with therapy often, not wanting medication.
00:15:24.966 --> 00:15:28.033
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] But after doing therapy for a while, they do find that medication
00:15:28.033 --> 00:15:29.933
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] might be helpful for them, and now we have
00:15:29.933 --> 00:15:31.833
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] that ability to send patients back and forth.
00:15:32.533 --> 00:15:36.833
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Really, this comes from wanting to just expand the spectrum of
00:15:36.833 --> 00:15:39.633
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] services that are provided within behavioral health.
00:15:40.199 --> 00:15:44.733
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Behavioral health is-- there is such a broad range, everything from
00:15:44.733 --> 00:15:47.866
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] really just counseling or coaching
00:15:47.866 --> 00:15:50.500
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] all the way through to residential care.
00:15:50.899 --> 00:15:53.266
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] There's a wide spectrum of care in psychiatry.
00:15:53.633 --> 00:15:56.533
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And we want it, even though we started with that sliver of
00:15:56.566 --> 00:15:59.199
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] outpatient psychiatric care, we want them
00:15:59.199 --> 00:16:01.533
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] to start looking at ways to expand that.
00:16:01.633 --> 00:16:03.466
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So more and more, you can come to
00:16:03.466 --> 00:16:06.666
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] TOCI-ITRE and have a wider range of services.
00:16:06.933 --> 00:16:08.866
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Another thing that we're starting to do is we're
00:16:08.866 --> 00:16:11.233
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] starting to pilot an intensive outpatient program.
00:16:11.533 --> 00:16:15.733
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] We're piloting more substance use services, and we're trying to see
00:16:15.733 --> 00:16:17.500
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] how we can incorporate those more
00:16:17.766 --> 00:16:20.066
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] into what we provide for our patients.
00:16:20.366 --> 00:16:24.033
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] My background is in addiction as well, I wanted to see what else we
00:16:24.033 --> 00:16:25.899
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] can do for our patients that require
00:16:27.433 --> 00:16:29.233
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] that dual care.
00:16:30.766 --> 00:16:34.833
[Dr. Brian McDonough] I know you're triple board certified, I think, adolescent
00:16:34.833 --> 00:16:37.733
[Dr. Brian McDonough] psychiatry, adult psychiatry, addiction medicine.
00:16:38.100 --> 00:16:39.366
[Dr. Brian McDonough] You're doing this.
00:16:39.433 --> 00:16:41.500
[Dr. Brian McDonough] I've asked you a lot of questions.
00:16:41.866 --> 00:16:45.699
[Dr. Brian McDonough] What didn't I ask you that you really wanted to talk about that we
00:16:45.699 --> 00:16:48.133
[Dr. Brian McDonough] haven't talked about yet while we have this opportunity?
00:16:48.699 --> 00:16:52.033
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Yeah, I think that mental health is interesting.
00:16:52.033 --> 00:16:55.366
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] I think that there was very little for a
00:16:55.366 --> 00:16:58.966
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] very long time that changed for a long time.
00:16:58.966 --> 00:17:00.133
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] It was basically what Freud was
00:17:00.133 --> 00:17:01.866
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] doing, sitting down with a pen and paper.
00:17:02.199 --> 00:17:03.833
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And that's only if you didn't have a good memory.
00:17:03.833 --> 00:17:05.898
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Like you had good memories, people didn't even need that.
00:17:07.032 --> 00:17:09.133
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And then it went really, really fast.
00:17:09.133 --> 00:17:13.165
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So now we're looking at so many other things, both pharmaceuticals,
00:17:14.032 --> 00:17:16.633
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] therapy modalities, AI, all those things are
00:17:16.633 --> 00:17:18.800
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] really becoming integrated in behavioral health.
00:17:19.066 --> 00:17:22.800
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] I think a big part of that is just an acknowledgement that the
00:17:22.800 --> 00:17:26.099
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] investment needs to go into behavioral health care, both because
00:17:26.266 --> 00:17:29.833
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] behavioral health care is just important on its own, if people have
00:17:29.866 --> 00:17:31.866
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] a mental health need, then they should be able to beat it.
00:17:32.199 --> 00:17:36.733
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] But also the recognition that addressing mental health care
00:17:37.733 --> 00:17:41.533
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] or addressing mental health is just beneficial to overall health
00:17:41.733 --> 00:17:44.633
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] care, overall physical health, health care costs.
00:17:45.466 --> 00:17:48.966
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So I think that it's been really great to see that.
00:17:48.966 --> 00:17:52.666
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] You mentioned before, I've been practicing now for over 20 years.
00:17:52.966 --> 00:17:53.533
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And
00:17:54.600 --> 00:17:56.266
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] when I started, there were just a couple of people
00:17:56.266 --> 00:17:58.033
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] in my class that were even going into psychiatry.
00:17:58.033 --> 00:18:01.000
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Now it's becoming a lot more popular and a lot more difficult to
00:18:01.000 --> 00:18:02.533
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] get into psych residency programs.
00:18:02.833 --> 00:18:05.399
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So there's really an acknowledgement of how important it is.
00:18:06.366 --> 00:18:09.000
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And we're looking at ways that we can expand as well, not just our
00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:12.133
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] services, but in technology, how can we incorporate AI?
00:18:12.500 --> 00:18:15.133
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] We'd be remiss not to think about how AI
00:18:15.699 --> 00:18:18.733
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] can be incorporated into a company like ours.
00:18:18.733 --> 00:18:20.033
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So we're exploring that.
00:18:20.033 --> 00:18:22.033
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] We've already started on the administrative side.
00:18:22.166 --> 00:18:25.199
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Something as simple as an AI scribe can
00:18:25.199 --> 00:18:29.633
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] be shockingly useful for psychiatrists.
00:18:29.633 --> 00:18:34.333
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] And it's a relatively small thing that just makes an exponential
00:18:34.333 --> 00:18:38.333
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] effect on a doc's ability to
00:18:38.333 --> 00:18:41.899
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] provide care on their job satisfaction.
00:18:42.766 --> 00:18:45.399
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] We could do a whole other podcast and physician burnout, right?
00:18:45.866 --> 00:18:47.600
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So being able to help docs
00:18:49.033 --> 00:18:50.433
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] throughout their day on those kinds
00:18:50.433 --> 00:18:52.233
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] of things has been just game-changing.
00:18:52.433 --> 00:18:55.000
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] But we're also looking at how people
00:18:55.000 --> 00:18:56.766
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] are using AI in their lives, right?
00:18:56.766 --> 00:18:58.166
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Some people use it as a therapist.
00:18:58.433 --> 00:19:01.500
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Some people have problematic use, right?
00:19:01.500 --> 00:19:03.199
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Just like with anything else, if you give
00:19:03.199 --> 00:19:06.266
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] somebody something new, it can be problematic as well.
00:19:06.266 --> 00:19:10.366
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] So we're really looking at all those things and how they affect
00:19:10.633 --> 00:19:15.433
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] patients, how they affect doctors, and how we can use them in a
00:19:15.433 --> 00:19:17.899
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] responsible way and be a thought leader as well.
00:19:18.399 --> 00:19:19.566
[Dr. Brian McDonough] I wanna thank Dr.
00:19:19.766 --> 00:19:22.500
[Dr. Brian McDonough] Georgia Gaveras, she is co-founder and
00:19:22.500 --> 00:19:24.666
[Dr. Brian McDonough] chief medical officer at Talkiatry.
00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:25.699
[Dr. Brian McDonough] Thanks for being here.
00:19:25.699 --> 00:19:27.033
[Dr. Brian McDonough] I really appreciate your time.
00:19:27.033 --> 00:19:28.033
[Dr. Brian McDonough] I know how busy you are.
00:19:28.033 --> 00:19:29.033
[Dr. Brian McDonough] It was just great to have you.
00:19:29.333 --> 00:19:30.800
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] It's absolutely wonderful to be here.
00:19:30.800 --> 00:19:31.633
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Thank you so much.
00:19:31.633 --> 00:19:32.733
[Dr. Georgia Gaveras] Hopefully I'll see you again soon.
00:19:33.199 --> 00:19:34.033
[Dr. Brian McDonough] Looking forward to it.
00:19:34.066 --> 00:19:35.666
[Dr. Brian McDonough] Thank you again for joining us.
00:19:35.866 --> 00:19:37.933
[Lauren Lattany] Thank you for joining us for Executive Pulse.
00:19:38.233 --> 00:19:39.966
[Lauren Lattany] This podcast is brought to you by AMGA.
00:19:40.399 --> 00:19:43.133
[Lauren Lattany] For more information, please visit amga.org.
