19 - Watching Loved Ones Fade - The Grief, Struggle and Joy in Caregiving with Tracy Daniel-Hardy

Heidi (00:14)
Welcome to the Evolving Together podcast. I'm your host, Heidi Sexton, and this is the place where we talk about all the things that happen in midlife with honesty, humor, and heart. some things come along that we do not expect And that includes dementia and caregiving. Unfortunately that is part of a journey for many of us in midlife, which is caregiving, a parent, a grandparent.

a loved one, sometimes even a spouse, because dementia can occur really at any time, sometimes as early as in fifties and sixties. So if you had told me that I would be a caregiver even two years ago, I would not have believed it, even though I was a partial caregiver for my father in law for four years when he had dementia.

So my guest today, Dr. Tracy Daniel-Hardy, was also put in that position that many of us don't see coming and do not expect in midlife. certainly not when we are getting close to retirement age, or maybe we've retired and started a new relationship, but somehow we are put in these positions and we have to figure them out.

And even if we do see it coming, we're not always prepared because the situation arises very quickly sometimes. Tracy initially found herself as a caregiver when her mom Ruby had a stroke, and then she went on to become the primary caregivers for both of her parents, Butch and Ruby, who both have dementia. Tracy has used her position to help others navigate these murky waters while being a caregiver.

she has become a community educator for the Alzheimer's Association, she has written a book that is part memoir and practical guidance called The Adventures of Butch and Ruby Chronicles of a Caregiver.

Tracy is a retired educator, an educational technology visionary, and a prominent voice for senior caregiving and advocacy.

Tracy earned her PhD in educational administration from the University of Southern Mississippi and is a proud alumni of Alcorn State University. She spent almost three decades in the Gulfport School District and the last 15 as director of technology, which is how I know you.

She is an advisor for multiple tech organizations, including the Mississippi Department of Education. She is also a public speaker and author of the adventures of Butch and Ruby, like I mentioned, and a contributing author on several books on leadership. She is also an active member of Delta Sigma Theta Sorority and serves on Alcorn State University National Alumni Association.

she is the founder and chief instructor of the Senior Academy of Technology and Continuing Education. And I'm gonna stop here because if I read her whole bio, we'd be here another thirty minutes. But it's impressive and it's extensive and I think it's important to be seen. So I will be putting that in the show notes. But in a nutshell, she knows a lot, she cares a lot, she shares a lot, and she gets stuff done. So

Thank you for being here, Tracy.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (03:11)
Well thank you for having me, Heidi.

Heidi (03:14)
I wonder did you ever see this as your like in like ten years ago, did you see yourself in this kind of a position? Did it ever cross your mind?

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (03:27)
Actually yes, because my journey started

Ten years ago, ten years ago and a week maybe. So but had it been ten and a half years ago, I would have said no, definitely. Never at all in my childhood or adulthood did I even consider being a caregiver, although I watched people around me be caregivers, but I never really

kinda ingested the full the totality of what they were doing. It was just kind of, you know, someone's grandmother or elderly aunt or something that someone was caring for. So it never really, you know, hit me or struck me that this may be my future. So no.

Heidi (04:17)
Right.

I think I saw it before my father in law. I saw it, but I didn't really like you said, the totality of it until you're really in the the mix of it, you don't really get it. And then it's different for everybody. Like your parents lived together. and your mom just passed. I'm so sorry about that. That was what s seven months ago, which I think is just

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (04:36)
Thank you. Yeah, yeah.

Heidi (04:40)
I don't know where the time has gone, but i I think that's a little unusual too, that

not only both parents had dementia, but both parents were still together, still living in the same home that you grew up in. So there was

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (04:52)
Mm.

Heidi (04:53)
a lot of things in your situation that I don't think is very common. it seems like from what I've seen, well, I guess my my in laws, my my ex husband's in laws, they were both married in the same house and we we did keep my father in law in this in the house, but my mother in law didn't have dementia.

she was able to be a little bit of a caregiver as long as possible. I think for people looking from the outside in, like you just said, you you kind of grew up seeing it here and there, but it didn't really have the impact

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (05:23)
Mm-hmm.

Heidi (05:25)
of what it really means it involves getting them dressed and taking them to doctor's appointments and the the showering and things like that.

But then there's also that emotional component

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (05:37)
Mm-hmm.

Heidi (05:38)
that I don't think is really addressed and considered, especially in the beginning.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (05:44)
Yeah. Yeah. I

Which is why I started using my voice to discuss it, to share it, I remember my best friend's mom starting her journey and my mom would go over and help her. She loved to work in the yard, so my mom did too, so she would just stop by and spend time with her in the yard. And I remember when her mom died,

Yeah.

I think. I'm maybe getting the dates confused. But I was thinking back, you know, when I started my journey, that that's what she, that's what she was doing. And

Heidi (06:24)
Mm.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (06:24)
I felt bad because I didn't reach out. I didn't help. You know, I didn't check on her in that capacity. I will chalk it up to the lack of understanding what that was all about, what caregiving actually meant, because so many people did it in silence. They just

silently struggled, silently chugged along. And I said, I refuse to do that because I'm an educator. I want to help people. I want someone

Heidi (06:50)
Right.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (06:51)
to be better than I was. I want others to do better by their parents than I did. That first year, at least that first six months, I felt like I was awful. You know, I kept putting pressure on them to do more, to do better, you know, and I was like, come on, let's do this. You can do it. Not realizing that

they no longer had the capacity to do it. So once I started doing research and thinking back over, you know, the things that I've watched, the people that I saw doing it, and something just just struck me. It was like we need to educate people more about this so that they won't one, make the same mistakes that I did

when I started the journey with mom particularly and then also as a companion to someone who is a caregiver, you know, not offering that emotional support or even, you know, offering to cook a meal or something like that. And or just sitting with them. You know, we would talk, but we never talked about the journey that she was on with her. And so I said, I'm I'm not looking for anyone to help me. I'm looking to

Help someone. So I just started sharing things that I learned along the way, sharing mistakes that I made. I think some of my greatest lessons and greatest successes have come from those huge failures. So I definitely wanted people to know that I was being transparent with the journey.

compromising a lot of dignity for my parents.

and some people

Heidi (08:33)
Yeah. Yeah. You see that a lot

sometimes on social media and it kind of it

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (08:37)
Yeah.

Heidi (08:38)
it bothers me because I'm thinking that person does not know what's going on necessarily. They haven't given permission And I know that most people that do that I think their their goal is to be able to help somebody else and show,

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (08:52)
Yeah.

Heidi (08:53)
you know, what they're going through. And I know that in you mentioned in the book you you showed your parents what you were doing and they liked

the stories that you're collecting. One day you will I'm getting emotional.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (09:04)
I know.

Heidi (09:06)
'cause it's something that I've wanted to do, you know, and I just haven't really been able to to find

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (09:11)
Yeah.

Heidi (09:11)
the capacity for that But your mom said something basically, one day you'll be glad you have these when I'm not here. And I think that that's

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (09:17)
Yeah. Yeah.

Heidi (09:19)
like to be able to capture that is really

So beautiful. And and when you're so busy and in it, it's hard to step and pause and and say, Okay, this is this is a story. I'm gonna write this down. that's something that I got from your book. I felt very inspired to do things a little bit differently.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (09:35)
Yeah. Yeah.

Heidi (09:37)
not just that, but to have more patience and

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (09:41)
Yeah.

Heidi (09:42)
I bought the book to support you and I've

read a lot of the stories on Facebook and I thought, okay, I I I I thought I knew what to expect. And I'm like, and I've I've got this down pretty good right now. However, I don't when I realized is that, you know, a lot of the practical things, and we can talk about that a little later, I

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (09:58)
Yeah, yeah.

Heidi (09:59)
I was good at. But some of the things that I took away was like you were saying like in the beginning, you're like, come on, we got this, you can do this and th they can't and that's something

I've struggled with because there's that fine line between doing for them

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (10:17)
Yes.

Heidi (10:17)
and then they lose the ability to remember how to do it versus they really can't. And so you're

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (10:22)
Yeah.

Heidi (10:23)
constantly judging your words and and your actions and what am I taking away from them? What what autonomy am I taking away and their independence? You talked about that a lot, you know.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (10:33)
and

that's a whole podcast right there. That is something

Heidi (10:36)
Yeah.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (10:36)
that I'm really, really passionate about is, you know, making sure to encourage independence in every aspect. and I remember a friend, you know, kind of scolding me about trying to encourage mom to do something and she said, She's at the age where she doesn't have to do that, just do it for.

And you know, I remember when my grandmother was ninety, she lived to ninety three and I had to take her to the hospital for some type of test.

They found some kind of spot on her breast. And they were number one trying to see whether it was breast cancer. And number two, they were also trying to see why she was in such good health. She kept saying, I'm not gonna let them cut on me. I'm not gonna let them cut on me because they're just trying to see, you know, why I'm still here, that long she was still walking, she was still doing for herself and everything. And so, but she had some respiratory issues and so

when she'd walk extensively, she'd tire. And so she told me, when my aunt would take her to the hospital, she'd get a wheelchair.

And I said, well, we're not getting a wheelchair today. What we're gonna do is we're gonna take our time. We're gonna walk and when you need to, we'll slow down. I said, because you're more than capable. And she just kind of looked at me. So I'm saying all that to say that that is me, that is ingrained in me to push you, to be better, to push you, beyond your comfort zone. But it's also within reason. I can, kind of see when you need to slow down. And so mom did the same thing with us.

And although I was trying to tell her then, stick your feet in, the left side and then the right side and then when when I stand you up, you pull them up. And my best friend was like, she doesn't have to do that and I said, Yeah, she does. And I didn't want to have that conversation with her right then because mom knew exactly what I was doing. She she knew and she was willing to do it until she felt like she couldn't and she would

voice that and so I think it is super important for us to encourage independence because the more we do for them the more they will expect us to do for them and then the more they lose the capacity to do and so it's just trying to ensure the quality of their lives a little bit longer by encouraging them to do things more for themselves and stay engaged because if they're

just sitting around and letting you grab a leg and grab an arm and you know move her this way and move her that way without talking to them without asking them to do then eventually their cognition you know becomes reduced as well they don't have to think about it and so I I wanted to slow that down as much as possible by encouraging them to still do things. Now Dad he he talks back and he's

Heidi (13:46)
I know. I love

the I love the

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (13:48)
Yeah.

Heidi (13:48)
the grunts. You know, he he doesn't really respond sometimes. He'll grunt or something. It's it's funny.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (13:52)
Yeah. He just he talks

back and he doesn't want to do he was like, well, you can do it. And I said, Yeah, I can, but you're gonna do it. And he'll just look at me. And sometimes we have a standoff. We're looking at each other. But he also knows, he also knows. mom did not and dad does not have

the dementia that makes them lose the capacity to understand, and to recognize a lot of things. Mom lost executive functioning. Dad his short term memory. But even with his short term memory,

repetitive things, moves those things from short term to long term. I don't really understand how it works, but I see how it works with him. And it's hard to make people understand because they're like, Do you remember me? Do you remember me? And that's something people always want to do, but it's something you probably shouldn't do with someone with dementia. But Dad was like, Yeah, I remember you. And he

Heidi (14:49)
Yeah.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (14:50)
can call first name, maiden, and last name and tell stories

Heidi (14:54)
Wow.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (14:55)
around it. And so they're always

Surprised and I said, see. But ask him, did he have coffee this morning? And he won't be able to tell you.

Heidi (15:03)
Yeah. Yeah. My father in law would have like three breakfasts. He'd he'd forget that he ate and he'd get so mad and he's like, Give me my damn breakfast and

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (15:10)
Yeah. Yeah.

Heidi (15:13)
we're like, Dad, you just had it And he's like, No, don't tell me what I what I did and didn't do He would get so mad sometimes, but

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (15:20)
Yeah.

Heidi (15:20)
so we would just let him have another breakfast, you know. But if he wanted that

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (15:22)
Yeah, yeah.

Heidi (15:23)
piece of candy up on the counter, I made him get up and get it. He'd say

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (15:26)
Yeah,

Heidi (15:27)
Dalin, go get me that and he goes, What you got up there? I said, I don't know, go look. I I'm not sure what's up there. I'm busy right now. But so you have to kind of find your little ways to I guess kinda trick into doing some things, which which I hate to do that on one hand.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (15:32)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

Heidi (15:42)
my mom and she may even listen to this podcast, maybe I don't know. I she has Spotify and sometimes she listens to things and sometimes she doesn't. So I'm always like I never wanna hurt her feelings, you know.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (15:53)
Yeah.

Heidi (15:53)
But

One of her jobs is emptying the dishwasher. And I felt kinda bad in the beginning and then I started thinking about it. I was like, Wait a second. It's not a bed and breakfast here. You know, my mom lives with me. She moved in about a year and a half ago with me and my

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (16:06)
Okay.

Heidi (16:07)
new husband and she just turned eighty two and she's got early stage dementia. So she has short term memory loss, some executive functioning loss. Like she can't put things together,

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (16:20)
Yeah.

Heidi (16:20)
what people who don't have dementia can do, she can't. Like looking at the calendar, trying to figure out what to write down where. things that Mm. Yeah. Like she has the calendar and she was

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (16:28)
that's mom. That was mom. Yeah. Yeah.

Heidi (16:32)
resistant to getting one, but I said, Look, I'm not gonna tell you these things every single day. you wanna be independent, right? And she said, Yeah I said, Well, it's

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (16:39)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Heidi (16:41)
up to you to write down. I'll tell you what to write down and where which

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (16:44)
Mm-hmm.

Heidi (16:45)
I'll talk about that, you know, telling them what to do is another old story. But

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (16:48)
no

Heidi (16:49)
the dishwasher became kinda her job. And I thought, you

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (16:52)
Mm-hmm.

Heidi (16:53)
know, that's not the worst thing because she's remembering where things go. It's physical movement. She's gotta bend down

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (16:56)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Heidi (16:58)
and pick up and the pots that are too heavy. I'm like, well just don't just put

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (17:01)
Mm-hmm.

Heidi (17:02)
on the counter, I'll put away later. But yeah, trying to find th those things to keep them, you know, moving and then

literally jogging their memory. But like you said, when someone comes up and says, Do you remember me? I try really hard to not use the word do you remember? But it's hard because it comes up

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (17:16)
Yeah, yeah. It is.

Heidi (17:19)
in a lot of regular conversation. But

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (17:22)
Yeah.

Heidi (17:23)
there was so many things that you had in your book that was really potent for me. Like one of them was how you ask them to do something.

you don't say, Do you need help? Do you

want help? And I thought

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (17:32)
Right, yeah.

Heidi (17:34)
I've kind of shifted that a little bit, but now I feel like I'm going to be a lot more intentional with my

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (17:39)
Yeah.

Heidi (17:39)
word choices because they don't want to need us. That's one thing. That yeah.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (17:43)
Mm-mm. Yeah. That

that is true. I never thought my mom to be prideful, you know. And when I would say, Do you need me to help? And she'd sit there and she's just constantly trying. And then she'd say, No. And then I would say, Well, okay, I'm just gonna help you. And she said, Okay. And I said, Hmm. You know, she's she's been

very specific here, you know, I said, Do you need help? And she didn't want to need help. and so I started shifting the way I would ask her things and dad things. Now, it became a little difficult sometimes because I'd have to do one thing for dad and do the opposite thing for her. But, you know, we got used to it. and

It just made things a little bit better for them and for me.

it created more work and more intentionality on my side, but to see them do better and respond better meant I had a you know warm fuzzy feeling inside and I didn't feel as heavy emotionally about some of those things and just little things like that made a difference for us and even when I started

video and stuff. I would take pictures when I started the video and it had an unusual impact on us. You know, I got to look back at things that we were doing at the time and I said, hmm

I might need to shift that, you know, I noticed the response from it or I noticed how I used to do something or they used to do something versus the way that they were now and that reminded me that we needed to shift, you know, how we were doing things and also it became very important when we would go to the doctor and I would have to explain behaviors or maybe symptoms and I would say, see, look at this and then

look at this and it will be like, because oftentimes, and this is a whole nother podcast too, Heidi, is Yeah.

Heidi (19:59)
You might have to come back. I I really I would love

to have you come back 'cause I wanna actually start a whole little kind of a spin off of for just caregiving and dementia and things like that.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (20:09)
Okay.

Heidi (20:10)
coming on. Anyway, go ahead.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (20:13)
So they would they will act a certain way around you who's there all the time. But then when company comes or when they go to the doctor, they have this superpower. Like none of what you are trying to tell somebody they do or explain to somebody you've experiencing, they're looking at you like, Are you making this up? And I'm like

And I'm looking at them like, okay, this is different. You know, when my brother would come home, mom would even try to cook and she would sit up more and be a little more supportive and helpful and I would just look and

A cousin called and said, he asked, he said, Does your mom or dad do this? And I say, Yes, yes. He said, Well, when my brother comes home, he's like, Mom doesn't do any of the things that you're saying that she does. And she gets up and she's helping him and waiting on him. And then as soon as he leaves, she's back to, you know, the way he described. I say, Yeah, I think that is a common phenomenon. So

Heidi (21:18)
Yeah.

And and I in my research and my own experience I've seen that as well. And I I think it's because they use all their brain power and energy to put on the best that they can for somebody else and then they c where

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (21:30)
Yeah. Yeah.

Heidi (21:31)
they feel safe they can just let it go. And it took me

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (21:33)
Yeah, exactly.

Heidi (21:35)
a little while to figure that out because I'd I'd have friends that would help me out. They'd take her to the senior center or something and or they'd come and visit

and they're like, she seems fine. I was like Yeah, and I don't quite get that because it's not like that for me. But

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (21:50)
Mm-hmm.

Heidi (21:51)
again, we all have that that ability to shift depending on who we're around and who we're talking

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (21:56)
That's right.

Heidi (21:57)
to. And it it doesn't go away So yeah, that that is interesting.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (22:01)
Yeah.

Heidi (22:02)
I like the idea of the the videoing. I think I might do some of that for my own use, not necessarily to publish but I think

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (22:09)
Right.

Heidi (22:09)
it's a good reflective tool. I know and when we were teaching, you know, that was a a thing. Or if you're public speaking, you know, i you videotape

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (22:16)
Mm-hmm.

Heidi (22:17)
yourself beforehand or during a lesson

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (22:19)
Mm-hmm.

Heidi (22:20)
and you will see some things.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (22:22)
Yeah,

yeah.

Heidi (22:24)
You may not wanna see them, but you will see a lot you'll get your own feedback. And that would probably be a good thing. And I've had to write things on doctor's notes and things and or on a note for the doctor to slip it to them because she won't remember doing certain things.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (22:39)
Mm-hmm.

Heidi (22:39)
And then she gets so mad if I say, yeah, well, you know, you fell, a year ago or whatever it

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (22:44)
Yeah. Yeah.

Heidi (22:45)
is and if she doesn't remember it, she doesn't want to talk about it. And I

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (22:48)
Yeah. Yeah.

Heidi (22:50)
I've

tried to get better at protecting her from her memory loss, which is challenging

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (22:55)
Mm-hmm.

Heidi (22:57)
because like you say, you have to advocate for your parents and

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (23:00)
yeah.

Heidi (23:01)
it's hard to to do that and then keep their dignity as well. it's tricky.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (23:05)
Yeah, yeah, So,

if I can shift the conversation just a little bit, but it's about dignity. And so, that is one of the things that I struggle with initially, with the incontinence piece. And that was very,

Heidi (23:22)
Yes, let's talk about that.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (23:24)
very hard for me, but then, you know, I I

Dad is just kind of sporadic and mostly because sometimes it takes more effort to get up to get there and then sometimes you just don't make it in time. But

Heidi (23:41)
Right.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (23:41)
still there's a there's a cleanup and he does pretty good with it, but then we have to follow up. And so one of the things that I started doing is making jokes about some things. We would always laugh about

crazy things and sometimes inappropriate things. And so, one of the things I call it is joy in the journey. You know, we we find ways to laugh about everything. But also, so

mom's incontinence, we could laugh about it. And she would laugh and we would get cleaned up and we would laugh about it during Dad, he doesn't laugh about it. It's not funny to him. He doesn't he's not quite as funny as we are. And so for him, I make sure I say, it's okay. Just let me help you. Just let me help you. Don't worry about it. I got it. You know, it happened to me the other day driving home from work or something like that. So to minimize it so that

he's more comfortable with me helping him. And so initially he struggled with allowing me to enter his personal space, you know. And it was a struggle for me. Like I gotta see my dad with no

Heidi (24:52)
Yeah.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (24:52)
clothes, it's naked. And so now it's not a big deal. But I had to

gain his trust and part of gaining his trust is to ensure that his dignity was intact and that I respected his boundaries that he placed, but also try to weave around some of those things so that I can help him in the best way possible. Mom, there were no boundaries. She didn't care. My husband took care of her every day doing stuff and she just didn't care. And we made a joke about that. I was like, are you showing my husband your butt? And she would just laugh.

Heidi (25:29)
I love how you you really weave laughter into so much and that's been inspiring

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (25:33)
Yeah.

Heidi (25:34)
because I my mom is very playful and and I need to

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (25:36)
Yeah.

Heidi (25:36)
lighten I need to lighten my ass up. I mean seriously. Like I just I I have to that was so inspiring, but yeah. But the dignity part.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (25:39)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But I had

to get to a certain point emotionally. I had to have a reckoning within me, they're not getting better.

That this situation will most likely get worse before it gets better. So I had to have a come to Jesus meeting with myself and say, okay, this is where we are. So how do we want to handle it? And then you know, the joy crept in a little bit greater.

And I could come in the front door and I knew what I was, you know, faced with in the back. and I knew that if they could do better, they would do better. So I would walk in and I would say, mom, I think we got a mess going on. And she would say, Hmm. And then I'd say, my, shit everywhere like that. And she'd fall out laughing.

Heidi (26:34)
That's awesome.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (26:37)
She would just fall out laughing, and Dad would say, I said, We're not gonna pay him any attention.

And I said, Well,

Heidi (26:43)
Yeah, that's

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (26:44)
let's get cleaned up. And she would just laugh, and then she would say something about something that happened, or you know, around something similar, and we'd laugh, and then every now and then dad would chuckle about it too. But we tried to find something funny in everything, and then I noticed that my husband would use the same.

tactics and then my cousin and her children that would come in to help they would do the same thing and so it made things much lighter for everybody and it helped you know you know to remind them that they were human that they still had their dignity and we were still respecting them but there was this season in their life where it required a little more assistance from us and we were here and we were happy to help instead of being so serious and frowning

and just handling the business, you know, that I noticed that made dad feel bad. And

Heidi (27:42)
Mm.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (27:43)
I said, Well we can't do that and that's how we just

You know, started making sure that that was our norm. And there were days when I was tired, you know, just really tired, emotionally beat down, tired from work. But I knew when I got to that front door that I had to shake all that off because they felt that heavy aura, that heavy energy, that lack of motivation when I walked in. And Daddy responded negatively that way. He'd lock in. And I'm, you know, because I'm now trying to tell him what to do.

And he says, I'm still Dad. You forgot who I was. So I was like, yeah, but you need my help. And there were days where I just had to leave and then regroup and come back. And thankfully, his dementia saved me. It made it easier because he would not remember. We just had a head bumping. And then I had a chance to start over.

And I'd use that to my benefit, but ooh, I felt bad about it. I just really felt

Heidi (28:51)
Yeah.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (28:52)
bad. I'm like, I'm tricking my dad, I'm lying to him. And I would just pray for forgiveness

Heidi (28:55)
That's yeah.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (28:57)
and then eventually I was like, It's okay if I do this because I'm doing it with his best interests, you know, at heart. And yeah.

Heidi (29:06)
Yeah. I've I've had to

remind myself of that because you do feel like you're lying and and being tricky, but

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (29:13)
Yeah.

Heidi (29:14)
it's f for their own best interest. And

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (29:18)
Yeah.

Heidi (29:19)
I just would remind myself constantly, you know, okay, this is what's best for her and and and 'cause she's not in the same capacity that she was before. it's almost like dealing with a different

person to a degree.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (29:30)
Yeah.

Heidi (29:30)
for a while I had an online caregiver support group and I I was like, okay, how can I best serve these other people that are going through this? what what's the advice that I need? And I said, Okay, fed, safe, hydrated. On those days where you are just spent and you cannot

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (29:47)
Mm-hmm.

Heidi (29:48)
give anything else, whether you 'cause you didn't sleep or what you know, I mean working a full time job, whatever it is,

Some people still have children they're taking care of and then they're also taking

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (29:57)
Mm-hmm.

Heidi (29:58)
care of their parents. one of my guests that's coming on, she's she's in that situation. She's also a full time I think she's a s special education teacher, s English language. I c I'm not sure exactly. But she's a teacher, full time teacher. And she's got a lot on her plate, but it's like you just have to sometimes fed, hydrated and and safe and so I go back to that. But I

On the daily I wanna do more than that, obviously. I wanna be more engaged and more supportive

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (30:27)
Yeah.

Heidi (30:28)
and and and I think that, you know, I think when I knew that she was gonna move in, as actually my husband's idea, he said, Well she should move in with us And I said,

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (30:37)
Yeah, yeah.

Heidi (30:38)
What? We've only been married two barely two years and he said, No, it's the right thing to do. And I th I said

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (30:43)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's a special

man. Yeah.

Heidi (30:48)
It he is, he is.

and I said, Well, have you ever been around anyone with dementia? And he said, Nope. He says, It doesn't matter and I said, Well I said, It does because it's a whole different you know, and I 'cause

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (31:01)
Yeah.

Heidi (31:02)
I went through it with my fat my my my ex husband's dad and but you know, we did all the things, the handrails and we pulled up the rugs and I got the power of attorney set up and I did all the things, the physical things that had to be done.

But I definitely was not prepared for the daily loss and grief that comes with dementia.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (31:23)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Heidi (31:26)
And I think it's different than caring for somebody with a terminal physical illness because you're watching them become somebody else in front of you. And that's a that is a really has that gotten any easier for you?

I mean and now your mom has passed, so you have that additional grief on top of it.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (31:48)
Yeah.

Heidi (31:49)
I mean, that's it's a lot.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (31:53)
It is, it is.

On top of having to coach dad through the grief, because now he's

Heidi (32:02)
Yes.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (32:03)
a little lonely. He's like, I miss my wife. And I'm like, my God, like how am I gonna do this? You know, because they were together sixty years and every day for the

past ten years except for little stints in the hospital or or rehabilitation, they've slept together, you know? And so even if she was up front and he was in the back, he didn't feel the loneliness that he does now because I guess he felt that she was there. And I would say, Where's mom? I don't know.

But then I learned that I don't know is I'm not sure where she is in the house, but I know she's here. But now he knows that she's not anywhere on this earth. And that's challenging. But

Heidi (33:02)
Yeah. Yeah. I I've thought

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (33:06)
he coaches me because his faith is so strong. He says, you know.

She's done what we all have to do one day. And I'm like, Yeah, I know, but

Heidi (33:23)
Who

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (33:24)
goodness, I don't want to think about that.

Heidi (33:27)
Yeah.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (33:27)
And so that keeps him going.

Heidi (33:30)
Yeah, like you said, he's still your daddy. You know, he's still he's probably

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (33:33)
Yeah.

Heidi (33:35)
looking out for you, you know, or wants to in the best that he can and that's I just really can't imagine, you know, that

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (33:43)
Yeah.

Heidi (33:43)
and he lives by himself still, right? Is he Yeah.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (33:45)
He does. And he's just

a minute down the road and he he's physically independent but now this is funny.

Mom spoiled him

Heidi (34:05)
It sounds like it from the book.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (34:07)
Yes. So

he never had to fix his breakfast, fix his coffee, fix any meals, do any cleaning around the house. So he doesn't do any of that. We do all that for him. So he's physically independent. So he can get up and go to the living room, get up and go to the restroom.

watch T V, he turns the lights off, and closes the blinds and turns the TV off when it's time to go to bed. You know, things like that. But everything else we do for him.

Give him his meds, give him his breakfast, you know, coax him to get up and go to the front room when he doesn't feel like it, you know. I get him through getting dressed so that we can get out the door faster. but he really doesn't need a lot of help with that, but we do when we're trying to get somewhere, 'cause he's really slow. It used to take him an hour to shave and shower.

Heidi (35:13)
Yeah.

I was like, wow, that

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (35:13)
And everybody that

knew him knew that. It might have even taken an hour to shave just by itself because he uses a straight edge razor and then he does this smoothing thing. He's just very meticulous with it.

Heidi (35:28)
I love

it. Very old school, but I love it. I love that. I love that.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (35:30)
Very old school. Very, very, very old

school. And very particular about his things and so if we're gonna take care of him, he needs to trust that we're gonna take care of him in a way that he would

take care of himself. So we try to make sure we do things like that for him and and I try to keep him engaged because we have it so down pat that we're like, we're gonna get these snacks for him, these fruits for him and you know, these things that we know he enjoys. So that when I'm going preparing to go to the grocery store, I ask him, is there something that you want in particular? He was like, No. And I

I insist that he says something because I want him to think about the things that he likes instead of just reacting to the things that he likes and reacting to the things that he dislikes. I just want him to think about that because the more that he's cognitively engaged, the better it is for him. So sometimes just just bring me some gum. Give me some Freedent And usually we have it, we buy it in bulk.

Heidi (36:40)
Smart.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (36:40)
And people at the store

think we're crazy and then we tuck it away in the buffet drawer. Now he's not gonna remember to check the buffet drawer, but we'll bring it out for him every now and then. And then we set things out, snacks out for him that he can quickly grab. But yeah, everything else, you know, getting him showered or bathed and stuff, we we do that because he doesn't remember

That he hasn't had one. He'll say, I just had one. And I said, No, you didn't. And so instead of arguing with him, because his mind tells him one thing.

When the reality is something else, I have to remind myself that that's not him, that's his dementia brain, thinking that he's already done this. And then I'll just say, Well, okay, well, let's do this again, or redirect him, and then for him I get really sweet and complimentary.

And that works for him. And he'll say, Okay, but he'll give you that look like I know what you're doing, but that works for me. he never likes to get up. Sometimes he gets up on his own, but he never likes to get up, usually. And I just kind of ease the cover back and I rub his legs and I compliment how smooth they are and whatever. And then he just starts to kick his legs down and then he starts.

starts

to, you know, try to get up and I reach my hand out and he lets me pull him up and then he'll say something or smile or notice in in the mirror that he needs to shave. And then I'll say, But you alright right now. And he's like, okay. And then he'll notice I'm putting on a little weight here. I'm I'm like, you're fine, you're fine. So I'm just trying to make him fine with everything. I don't want them to worry about anything. And so

I try to reduce the worry. but I don't not share important things with them, like when Dad's really good buddy and his cousin, who was raised like a brother, passed away and he he just like, So we had to tell him four times and he remembered. And when we went to the funeral, he said, Who is that? I said, That's Uncle Ben. And he said,

And then he just kind of shook his head and he sat down and I could tell he was processing it because Uncle Ben had lost weight. He too was on a dementia journey. And so, but every now and then Uncle Ben's daughter would call and say, He wants to see your daddy, or daddy will wake up and say, I wonder what old Ben was doing, and I will call and I'll let him talk, or you know, they just stop by after church or whatever, and but before that

got

to the place where we had to help them so much. they would just sit out back and just talk and joke and laugh or have a cup of coffee or whatever. And I knew that was important to him and Uncle Ben So we tried to make that happen. but now it's like dad is like the only one left.

Heidi (40:02)
Yeah.

That happened with my father in law too. He'd have his buddies come by and they'd pick up and they'd go play golf and do things

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (40:08)
Yeah.

Heidi (40:09)
and they'd meet they always met down at Triplet Day for lunch for the longest time, yeah. Or they'd they'd meet at probably, probably.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (40:12)
Yes, yes. I bet I've seen them there.

Heidi (40:18)
Or the the old Bayou View Hardware store, he'd go over there and have coffee and

as his friends started to fall away, you know, it was it was hard for him because i i h that was his social life, especially when he couldn't drive anymore and then

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (40:29)
Yeah,

yeah, yeah, yeah.

Heidi (40:31)
That's when the dementia got a lot worse 'cause he started watching a lot of T V and just

kind of gave up, didn't care, stopped gardening. You know, my mom my

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (40:38)
Yeah.

Heidi (40:39)
mom, like your mom, big gardener. But she'll

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (40:41)
Yeah.

Heidi (40:42)
say, I miss my hands in the soil. I miss gardening. And so I have her a little raised bed, but she doesn't

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (40:47)
Good.

Heidi (40:47)
I'll say, Hey I'll Mommy, you got a bunch of weeds in there. She's Well, I don't know what's what. and you

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (40:51)
Yeah.

Heidi (40:52)
know, so she just and I it's that balance of trying to encourage her to still garden, but I said, Well, let's go and

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (40:56)
Yeah. Yeah.

Heidi (40:58)
let's go buy some

plants. What would you like to get? She goes, I don't I don't know. And she used to know all the plants so it's heartbreaking because you

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (41:02)
Yeah. It is.

Heidi (41:06)
see this person that they're just not they're just not there.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (41:11)
Yeah.

Heidi (41:12)
And I think that's probably been the hardest thing for me.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (41:16)
Yeah.

Heidi (41:17)
it was hard for with my father in law. I was very, very close to him. But

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (41:20)
Uh-huh.

Heidi (41:21)
I think too when it's your own parents it's even

harder because you have all the history that you had from w from

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (41:24)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Heidi (41:28)
childhood and you know all their little their little ins and outs and and the things that make tick and you know, like being real sweet to your daddy.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (41:31)
Yeah. Yeah.

Heidi (41:34)
That's probably what was always the way to get to his heart. That doesn't usually change, stuff like that.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (41:38)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

do you find that you miss the things the way they were? Like

Heidi (41:50)
yeah.

Yeah.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (41:51)
You know, like

not that you mind caring for them because they did their part, but just missing being a child and they being, the parent and, encouraging you and just doing things for you.

Heidi (42:07)
yeah.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (42:08)
like I tell the story about before mom stroke, she would

grab my clothes every other week and iron them up for me.

Heidi (42:22)
That is such

a sweet story. I saw that and I said, I love that that you're like, you know, a forty year old woman and she still d I love that. Like that's the kind of mom I am. Right.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (42:29)
Yes. Yes. I mean and she loved doing it. And the craziest

thing is that we hated ironing up our things when we were growing up. But she insisted that we did and not just our stuff, but everybody's stuff when it was our turn. And we tried to complain. But there was a lesson, you know, in that as well. And it was, you know, doing for others, not just for yourself. And so

Heidi (42:56)
Yeah.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (42:57)
When she got home, I tried to make sure she started back doing things. And she just said, Nope. Just as regal as she could be, because she wasn't pretentious, but she just no.

And that nope today means more than it did that day because the nope I understand is that while she may have had the motivation to do it, she realized that she could no longer do it in the way that she did it confidently before. And I had to respect that without digging into it and finding out why. Because you want to say why? You can, why?

Heidi (43:39)
Yeah.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (43:39)
And they could can't always explain.

the why and so

Heidi (43:43)
A lot of times I find my

mom can't ex explain the why, she's I I just don't know. It's just it's just how I feel or it's just and I've had to let that go. But yeah, you're right. That

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (43:49)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you have to respect it.

Heidi (43:54)
her no was really I can't do it to the degree that I used to and and that's and then that's that that fine line. Do you how do you know she really can't? Or like do you push

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (44:05)
Yeah.

Heidi (44:06)
I feel like that's that changes every every not just every day, but every morning or afternoon based on did they sleep good, did they not, and did they eat something healthy or you know, is

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (44:12)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Heidi (44:19)
did my mom go sneak some caramels or something for her lunch or ice cream? my mom

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (44:22)
Yeah. Yeah. Ice cream. my goodness.

Heidi (44:27)
too.

She's she gets sneaky about it. I say Mommy, you can have ice cream. I said, I don't care if you have ice cream, as long as you're eating real food. You can have, you know, eat your ice cream for lunch, but you have to have protein. You have to have the good stuff in there too. So it's

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (44:39)
Yeah. Yeah.

Heidi (44:42)
sometimes it's a little bit of a struggle. you said something about pecking order. And I thought that was so interesting because it took me a while to figure that out.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (44:51)
Mm.

Heidi (44:52)
I

and my mom's primary caregiver, but I have two brothers, an older and younger. And she will listen to me. but if my younger brother comes into the picture, his word is gospel.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (45:09)
Wow.

Heidi (45:10)
So sh it's funny because she'll call me

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (45:11)
Uh-huh.

Heidi (45:12)
Dr. Heidi and and it's not in a nice way. It's

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (45:15)
Mm-hmm.

Heidi (45:16)
you think you know what's best for me. you think you know everything or

And I said, well, I am a health coach. I do know a few things. But I've

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (45:23)
Mm-hmm.

Heidi (45:24)
realized, I'm just gonna have to be the bad guy. But

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (45:26)
Mm-hmm.

Heidi (45:26)
if my younger brother gets in on the conversation, who actually has a PhD like you. His is in psychology. He's a psychology

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (45:34)
Uh-huh.

Heidi (45:35)
professor and researcher, and very calm. You know, he he's very practical, very calm. He's wonderful. So if if my brother says something, that's it.

So if I really need something to happen, I mean like I call I'm like, hey, I need you to call mom today and ask her how this or that's going and so she can it's just funny

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (45:51)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Heidi (45:56)
and and she listens to my older brother too. but my younger brother, he's the one, you know, or my husband. My husband fits in there too. If he tells her something, but he doesn't get too involved. Like he he makes sure she's fed and he's

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (46:03)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, mhm, mhm.

Heidi (46:10)
he's wonderful about things like that, but he's not a he's not a caretaker.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (46:13)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Heidi (46:16)
If she says

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (46:16)
Everybody

has their role and those roles are important. And those those roles are what makes that care team so important and so powerful. Yeah. They call

Heidi (46:26)
Absolutely. Yes.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (46:28)
my dad calls my brother, who's a year younger, the spoiler. He said, the spoiler's home.

And you know, they engage and do things and I just kinda let them do their thing, but I'm like, the spoiler? Like, why is he the spoiler? And because he was a drill sergeant. So if

if if anything, not the spoiler, but it lets me know that dad recognizes

Who does a lot for them versus who, you know, insists that they are independent. So he recognizes that. And I said, interesting. And so I use that information not to make adjustments or not to make myself feel bad or him feel bad, but just to know, you know, if I need something done, you know, who does it? But

I can be the bad guy, but I'm also the dependable one. And so if they need something done, I've always been the one that they will call to do that. And so 'cause my brother was spoiled too, but you know, mom made sure that we were independent and can survive and dad did too. And so he's a real country boy, you know, hunting, fishing,

trucks

and this and so he and dad they just really engage with those things and he tries to get, you know, Dad to engage a little bit more. And he just kinda decides that he's gonna live vicariously through my brother. So my brother sends pictures of all the fish and all the rabbits and all this stuff and show this to Dad and Dad loves to talk about it. And then we get him on the phone and they FaceTime and so it's important for them to have that and I'm okay with him

calling him the spoiler, but it was just baffling to me that he's the spoiler, Mr. Drill Sergeant. So

Heidi (48:28)
Right. Right.

It's it's it took me a minute to accept my role as, you know, the the the enforcer and the mean one and the know it all I finally just said, Heidi, just stop, accept it because it's what's keeping her safe. It's actually what's keeping her healthier. She's healthier now

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (48:36)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It is. It is.

Heidi (48:45)
than she was when she moved in with me, you know,

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (48:47)
Yeah.

Heidi (48:48)
back a almost a year and a half ago. She when she got here she couldn't even walk up. We have a

back patio has two steps up and then another two steps up into the house and she couldn't even

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (48:56)
Mm-hmm.

Heidi (48:57)
get up those first two steps without I mean I and now we work out together, we do silver sneakers and and everyone's

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (49:02)
Yeah, yeah.

Heidi (49:04)
like, Your mom's doing so good and and so

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (49:06)
Yeah.

Heidi (49:07)
when she notices something about herself, like she's Look, I think I got my muscle here and and and I say, Well that's 'cause you're hard work. So I want her to feel motivated to do it. I don't want to be the one that's, you know, the drill sergeant pushing her to exercise, you know, it's

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (49:14)
Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. But believe

me, she knows, she knows

Heidi (49:23)
Yeah.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (49:24)
that you are the wind beneath her wings and all of this. But she doesn't like it. Just like yeah.

Heidi (49:28)
Yeah. No, she doesn't. She doesn't.

And once in a while she'll say to me, you know, I really appreciate you taking me everywhere and she stopped driving right when she moved down here. There a lot of things happened all at once and so it

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (49:38)
Yeah. Yeah.

Heidi (49:40)
was kind of a a a big shakeup for for all of us, honestly.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (49:44)
Yeah.

Heidi (49:44)
there's a couple things that I wanted to touch base on. One of them is, you know, the journey is very unpredictable. And you said your parents prepared you for

challenging and difficult journeys. you're also very established in the technology field, which is male dominated. You're also a black woman in technology.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (50:02)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Heidi (50:04)
So it's like this double whammy of having to prove yourself and be really tough,

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (50:09)
Yeah.

Heidi (50:10)
like over and over where other people just do not. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's not just one thing.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (50:11)
All my life I had to fight. Yeah. Yeah.

Heidi (50:17)
it was

Comforting to see in the book and then also just talking to you now. It's like the ability to still be vulnerable. And it's like I feel I I know I always had a reputation of being tough, I guess, when I grew up. I had a shell around me of protection. And but as I've gotten older, I realize that that softness and that vulnerability is okay and it's okay to cry. And I talk about crying a lot on this podcast. But I think it's it's just such a valuable

release and it's so necessary. But I I wonder did this experience with your parents teach you to to be able to cry or were you always a crier?

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (50:59)
My mom said Dad and I were the criers.

Heidi (51:02)
Yeah.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (51:04)
if I got angry, the tears would come and if I got sad the tears would come. and I couldn't control it. So that always bothered me professionally. But

Heidi (51:17)
Hm. Yeah.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (51:18)
I remember somebody saying, I cried in an interview one time, and I remember someone saying, Well, what do you think about that if you cried like that and what would they think? And I said, Don't take these tears for weakness. I remember saying

saying

that and they just kind of looked. I was like, yeah, just

Heidi (51:34)
Ooh, that is a

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (51:37)
because the tears are there, because I feel a certain way, don't think that I'm weak, you know. And and so they kind of just sat back because they were, you know, very I'ma say it mean. They were mean.

Heidi (51:50)
Yeah.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (51:52)
And yeah, and I've learned a lot about

people like that, you know. But anyway, so I think that as I started to share the journey, I was very selective about what I wanted to share and how I wanted to share it. And once I started receiving feedback from people telling me, you know, how this was helpful or to say, well my mom does this and what do you think about this and or send them private messages. And I said, you

You know what? This aspect, presenting it in this way, is good, but it's not good enough.

I had a former student message me and she was telling me about her journey with her mom and how

Her mom didn't want anybody to know. So she couldn't say it. She couldn't comment. She couldn't post anything or share anything about it. But she wanted to share with me some of the things that she was going through. And I said, hmm. You know, what she shared with me was very good.

And then others started sending messages too. And I I got the impression that I needed to share more. So I started sharing more and being more vulnerable because I would run into people and say, You're doing such a good job. I don't think that I could do that. I would be crying all the time. And I said, I do cry all the time. And they were like, Well, we never see that. And I said, Hmm.

So I'm giving the impression that this journey is hard, but it's not that hard for me. And so I'm doing this and I'm doing that, but they don't see the emotional toll that it is taking, you know, that's taking over me. And I I struggle because almost every Saturday scribble that I write, I cry. I

write it. I stop Saturday I was on the front porch and someone came up to have breakfast and I said, Give me a minute. I'm finishing my posts and I gotta cry and they were like they didn't know that that was the process. And so I felt like others needed to know that yes, I try not to be emotional around them.

But it is very emotional. It is very emotional. And I needed to let people know that. And so when I did, they were like, okay, I thought it was just me. Or, you know, they were thinking that something was wrong with them because it was so hard. No, this is hard. This

Heidi (54:45)
Yeah.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (54:45)
is really hard. So I learned through sharing and communicating with others how to be more vulnerable. And then it got to the point where

It just didn't matter anymore, you know, to

Heidi (54:58)
Yeah.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (54:59)
because you know everybody has this persona of being tough. I you know, I want to be tough. And someone said, You're always so put together. And I'm like, No, I'm not. No, no, I'm not. And so I just kind of adjusted, you know, so much that I'd grown to do to make it in the professional world. And so I had to like unpack

and

shake off some of those things to do better in the caregiving world, but also to do better in helping others who are caregivers too. So

Heidi (55:36)
Yeah. Well, I I appreciate that because I've always been a crier, but I cry about different things now. I would cry when I'd get frustrated. But I like what you said about these don't mistake these tears for weakness. The Yeah, that will be your mistake. but

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (55:47)
Yeah, yeah. Don't please don't do that. Yeah, yeah.

Heidi (55:54)
I appreciate the honesty and the vulnerability because I do think that from the outside it's easy to look at someone and say, they've got it together

but there is that really deep emotional toll, that ongoing grief that is just very hard to navigate. And I some days I do great, other days I'm a mess

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (56:09)
Yeah.

Heidi (56:09)
now I just let myself do it, but I don't ever cry in front of my mom. I don't want her to be upset and that's something I right, right, right,

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (56:14)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or to feel guilty about what she's going through because she can't help it.

Heidi (56:22)
right. So I really I really

Do my best for that. And same with my kids, like when my son went off to basic training a couple years ago. They they said, don't say you miss them too much. don't, you know, all these things. And and so I really I took that to heart. I said, okay, you know, it's like you you just how you doing? I love you so much and you're doing a great job. And then you get off the phone and you lose it.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (56:41)
Yeah. Yeah.

Heidi (56:44)
So I've gotten pretty good at that. But I want to touch on one more thing, and it's possible.

Maybe you'll come back and talk just about this. you talked about independence and I mean, there's so many things we could talk about. And anytime you

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (56:56)
Yeah.

Heidi (56:57)
wanna come on, I would love to have you. But and this topic is obviously very dear to your heart is the technology of protecting our loved ones, our seniors from scams. And I know this could really go on for another hour, but I guess maybe touch on it a little bit,

any senior that has access to any kind of technology, even if it's just a phone, they're opened up to a whole bunch of new scams. almost daily my mom comes to me and she's like, What is this on my phone? What is what does this mean? And and I'm like, Mommy, just delete it.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (57:25)
Mm-hmm.

Heidi (57:28)
I I'm the only contact that there is with her doctors and stuff, so I'm pretty certain she doesn't need to have it. So I said, If you don't know, just wait or just delete it

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (57:34)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Heidi (57:37)
But I mean, wow,

I guess that's why you started your your senior technology I d I know I'm not saying the right name of it, the

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (57:46)
Yeah.

Well, Senior Academy of Technology and Continuing Education. That actually is not why I started, but it is why that I ramped it up and continued. when I was still working, probably fifteen, sixteen years before I retired,

I started working with a group of parents and grandparents at Pass Road Elementary. They wanted like some computer training. I said, Well, yeah. So we meet in the computer lab and we do it. And then some other friends, like all ten years older, and they said they would ask for help with things, planning things, event things, and I would do like the behind the scenes stuff. And they were like, We need a computer class. I said, Well, get get yourselves together and then tell me when you want

And we could do it in my lab. And so they would come about once a week in the afternoon. And then I had my mom and some of the church ladies and they would come during the day and it just became a thing. So when I retired I still had a group of four ladies. One had fallen sick, but they were all seventy-five to eighty years old, and they were coming every week on Wednesday. I was informing

them that June I will be done and they were like, Well, we need to find a way to continue to do this. And I said, Huh, let me work it out. So in April before retiring, I formed

a senior academy of technology and continuing education and started trying to work out the kinks and there were a lot of kinks but here we are today a year and a half in and our focus has shifted a bit because of how the world has shifted because of the scams that was never really a part of what we were talking about but I had to weave it in training them how to do things

And you know, specifically about my parents, before I realized we were on a dementia journey, I was already sharing with them how to answer the phone and how not to answer the phone. And one of my pet peeves is all the scam calls that they received because I believe it's a safety issue because now they don't answer the phone. They had stopped answering the phone for years because they were inundated with all of those calls. And so while they were prepared to respond to them in an

appropriate way just to hang up and sometimes mom would play with them and I said, don't do that. but it's just grown to to be so bad that they disregard the phone. And so if we're calling for or or any kind of reason

because that do not call list does nothing do not call list doesn't work. are not really answering and mom eventually lost the capacity to use the phone because she was using it daily until the majority of the calls she would receive were scammers trying to talk about medical assistance or some kind of medical aid or trying to get some type of money from them. they just stopped.

And

Heidi (1:00:47)
Yeah.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (1:00:48)
I hate that. And I'm trying to figure out a way to encourage some kind of legislation to make that illegal.

Heidi (1:00:58)
Doesn't work.

we are going to continue in a bonus conversation about seniors and technology and and helping them to avoid scams, not just for seniors with dementia, but this is any senior,

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (1:01:09)
All seniors

Heidi (1:01:10)
who's a loved one in your life who has

Anything from a phone to a computer, social media or not. My mom doesn't have social media, but she needs protection too. So

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (1:01:18)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Heidi (1:01:20)
that's a topic that I don't think people think about until it's too late.

I mentioned earlier that I got your book, mostly to prepare for our conversation and to support you and everything. And I I took away

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (1:01:28)
Yeah. And thank you for that.

Heidi (1:01:31)
the my pleasure.

I don't like to rush things. I like to really absorb it and go back

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (1:01:34)
Right. Yeah.

Heidi (1:01:37)
and reread certain paragraphs Yeah.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (1:01:39)
It's more meaningful that way.

Heidi (1:01:41)
It's really special. it really helped me shift my perspective. And so I really appreciate you writing it and sharing it all that you do is seen and heard, not just in the book, but you share a lot on Facebook as well.

And I know I I haven't even really touched on the Alzheimer's advocacy that you do. I mean you do so much, so maybe you'll come back and we can keep talking about

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (1:02:00)
Okay,

Heidi (1:02:01)
it.

Thank you, Tracy.

Tracy Daniel-Hardy (1:02:02)
Thank you, Heidi.

Heidi (1:02:06)
Thank you so much for staying with us through the entire episode. Dr. Tracy Daniel Hardy's information is in the show notes. And I've also put up, if you're watching, a picture of the book that she wrote. If you're a caregiver of any sort, I highly recommend that you get this book and enjoy the stories

but also take in the advice. It is useful for really anybody who's a caregiver, but especially if you're dealing with someone who has dementia. So thank you again for listening.

Also, the bonus conversation on preventing and protecting seniors from scams through technology will be available in the groupie level of Patreon and also as an Apple subscriber. So if that is of interest to you, I hope you hop on over to one of those places and check it out. Again, those links are in the show notes.

I will be starting a little spinoff in Patreon and for Apple subscribers specifically on the topics of dementia and caregiving. So I hope you join us over there if you find yourself in that situation.

I have one patron shout out

And that goes to another Patreon podcast, married, mature, and unfiltered. They are talking love at 50 and more. So it's yeah, it's unfiltered. They talk about the things couples don't say out loud: sex, resentment, communication breakdowns, aging, and what it really takes to stay connected over time. They are Brocky and Trina, a black couple over fifty, who've been through marriage, divorce, blended families, and everything in between.

It's lived experience. no filters, no fluff, just real conversations that challenge how you think about love. So thank you guys for supporting my podcast. I appreciate that so much. Why don't you guys hop on over to Patreon and check them out as well? Thank you again for being here. We will see you in the next episode.