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Hi, this is Aurora from the Educating All Learners Alliance,
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and today we're speaking to Julia Dixon for a deep dive with SAI.
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SAI is an AI platform with the mission to make higher education and professional
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opportunities more accessible for students of all backgrounds and resources.
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Joining us today is Julia Dixon. She's the founder and CEO of SAI,
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and as a former college advisor herself, Julia saw firsthand how inaccessible
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admission assistance had become.
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She channeled her background in marketing and admissions to create SAI and build
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a community of over 8 million student viewers on TikTok around the idea that
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higher education should be accessible for all.
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I'm so excited to have you here today, Julia. Thanks for joining us.
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Thank you, Aurora. I'm super happy to be here.
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Just from the blurb, the intro, it's so exciting what you're doing, but let's dive deeper.
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Tell our listeners more about your organization and the work that you do.
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Of course. So as you mentioned, I myself used to be a college advisor,
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so I really saw how difficult it had become for any student and their families
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to navigate what is a really complex process.
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The admissions landscape right now is really chaotic.
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We're seeing things like confusing test optional policies, declining acceptance
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rates across the board, the end of affirmative action.
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There's just a lot up in the air for any kind of student or family to navigate in admissions.
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And it becomes especially hard if, you know, you're not able to get outside
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support from someone like a
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specialized tutor or advisor, which can run often upward of $300 an hour.
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So I saw that this kind of support can be majorly helpful in aiding students
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and families, but also really out of reach for most.
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And that's compounded by the fact that at the high school level,
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the average student to counselor ratio is nearly 400 to one.
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Wow. Meeting students, just getting that kind of individualized support from
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counselors at their schools, even, you know, if they are lucky to have great counselors.
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So I really saw a need to create something that would help students with really
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different kinds of stories, different kinds of resources and sort of meet them
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where they're at. And that's what we aim to do with SAI.
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Let's dig a little deeper into that. You mentioned, you know,
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students with different stories, students from all different backgrounds.
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Tell me a little bit more about how might this impact students with disabilities
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or learning differences? Yeah, definitely.
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So what we do and our platform that's different from maybe just a generalized
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AI chatbot that you could ask questions to or an information portal like a blog
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or an ebook that could give you all the information is that we really try to
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customize our advice to who you are and where you're at in the process.
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So our platform consists of a suite of micro tools that help with very specific
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parts of the process as you need them.
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So college applications involve a lot of work, everything from picking the right
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program for you and finding which major in school you actually want to apply
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to and matches your skills, your goals, your budget, etc.
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Et cetera, to coming up with essay topics and going through that very complex
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college essay support, all the way down to finding financial resources that
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are going to help you pay for college and get through the whole experience.
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So we have tools that help with very specific parts of the puzzle as you need them.
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And for students with disabilities, this can make the process a lot less overwhelming.
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If you're feeling overwhelmed by how many steps there are, we'll really break
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it down and help you with one piece at a time.
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So essentially, Actually, SAI really breaks up this complex process into more
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manageable chunks, which can help students who are maybe feeling overwhelmed, need it broken down.
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We definitely help with that. We can also help students with telling their specific
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strengths that they have, even if those look really different from other types of student strengths.
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So maybe say you have a learning disability and you don't have the highest grades
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or the highest test scores, but you really excel in specific extracurriculars
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or maybe specific subjects.
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We can ask you only the questions that we need and help you match that story
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to the school you're trying to go to or to a specific goal that you have when
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it comes to a major or career.
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And we can help you weave the best story for you, help you frame that experience
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of having a disability in a way that you both feel good about and helps tell your unique story.
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Basically, our whole goal is it's your story. Make it work for you.
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We're going to figure out how to put your best story forward and frame things
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like hardships, disabilities, challenges you have in a way that actually tells
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a better story and just makes you, you know, an even better candidate based
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on everything that you've overcome and you've achieved.
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So that's really what we try to do with our narrative building tools at SAI.
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It is differentiated learning, essentially, but for everybody, right?
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It's a tool that, you know, instinctually differentiates for every learner. Yeah, exactly.
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One student, you know, might really lean into a specific hobby they have and
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another one might lean more into, you know, their academic success.
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There's no wrong answer.
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We really want to help you channel what makes you unique and help you figure
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out how to frame that story based on what you want to do. So it's definitely
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a choose your own adventure.
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And we use our proprietary coaching method to help you get there and really
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achieve the path that you want to go down.
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It sounds like a lot of things are working well, but, you know,
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what are some challenges that come up in this work?
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Because, you know, there's a lot going on right now in the world of education.
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So, yeah, what would you say is the biggest challenge that comes up?
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Yeah, I mean, we're trying to make the whole admissions landscape feel less
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daunting and less challenging.
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And a way we've been able to do that is with emerging technology,
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namely artificial intelligence.
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And I am definitely a believer in AI being a tool that could be used for good,
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being a tool that is so customizable and can help different kinds of students.
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But that said, it's not perfect.
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And there's still, I think, a lot of misunderstanding and stigma around the use of AI.
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And some of it's definitely warranted. AI needs to be used in an ethical way
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and it needs to be very closely monitored for things like bias,
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for things like student privacy.
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Just for things like quality and output when it comes to the accuracy of what AI is telling you.
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It's already pretty darn good, I think, especially in the way that we fine tune
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our own models and check for accuracy and bias.
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We really only try to put the best quality information in front of our students.
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But that said, it's still rapidly improving and it's not perfect.
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So we also put out a lot of things like AI ethical guidelines right at the top
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of our tools, but also in our free AI trainings that we offer for students,
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parents and counselors. Yeah.
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I think it's largely the responsibility of companies and builders like myself
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to make sure that AI is being implemented ethically.
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But there also are some guidelines that students and teachers and parents have to implement as well.
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Our kind of golden rule is our AI tools will never generate content that you
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should submit as a final product.
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So we're never going to write an entire essay for you that you could just turn in.
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That would obviously not be an ethical use of AI in the same way your tutor
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shouldn't write your entire essay for you and you shouldn't submit it.
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But what we can do is similar to how a human tutor would sit down with you and
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help you, you know, brainstorm ideas and make unique connections between your
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story and what you want to do or where you want to go.
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Outline and edit for things like vocabulary and clarity of voice and diverse sense and structures.
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All these things that a human tutor would do, AI is really good at and it can
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do it for a fraction of the cost and in a fraction of the time.
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So I think finding that line between how AI is providing these kinds of historically
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inaccessible services, but also never outsourcing student writing or ideas is really important.
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It's something we think a lot about. And it's something we have to put in our
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messaging to families and schools out there who maybe are a little more skeptical
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of AI or do think that it's similar to cheating in a way that, frankly,
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a lot of people viewed the internet and search engines before they understood
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how it would be used ethically as well.
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So I think it's a challenge sometimes to get everyone on the same page.
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And obviously, as an organization, we're always thinking about how we use AI ethically as well.
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But I do think even in just the last few months, people's attitudes have really kind of come around.
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More people are using AI in their personal life. They understand that it's not
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perfect, but that it can be largely helpful.
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And so I think we'll keep seeing things move in that direction while also having
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to be very careful about how we use the technology ourselves. Yeah.
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Yeah, it's a balance. And it's a balance. It's an ongoing debate.
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But I love this idea of it's not generating the text or the essay.
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It's brainstorming, coaching, guiding.
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I love that. Yeah, definitely. What are some bright spots?
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Give us an example of a success story. Yeah, I mean, my favorite examples are
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seeing how very different kinds of students use the platform in really different
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ways, but that work out for them.
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So we work with a lot of student athletes, for example, who maybe really struggle
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how to figure out how to tell their story of sports and athletic accomplishments
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in the lens of, you know, an academic or professional setting.
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So how can we pull out transferable skills for them?
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Maybe they're not pursuing that sport after high school, but it's really been
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like part of their journey so far.
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We can help them pull out that story in a way that still shows how they're a
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leader, how they're a collaborator, or, you know, how they have a newfound passion
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for a specific mission that was really made clear to them through the journey of their sport.
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Sure. So that's one example of a type of student that has really found a unique
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way to tell their story on our platform.
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We also work with a lot of kids who were very confused by the affirmative action ruling last year.
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They weren't sure how, if or how, they were allowed to talk about things like
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race and ethnicity or sexual orientation or really anything core to their identity. Yeah, wow.
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Sure, if that was still something you're allowed to talk about and.
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The short answer it is, it's not something you'll probably check on a form like a box anymore.
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But it is still something if it's core to who you are, or what you want to do
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or your experience today that you can and should talk about.
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And so SAI can really help you tell the story of your identity through things like lived experience.
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And we can help you figure out like, what is it about this identity that has shaped who you are?
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And how might that inform the kind of student or professional you want to be
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in the future. So we can really help students kind of weave out a larger story
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there versus just saying, you know, this is what I am or this is how I feel.
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And then I'm going to check that box, which is obviously a more,
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more powerful way to tell that story anyway. way.
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And again, we just work with students with a wide range of mixed,
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you know, some students feel that they are stronger in these kind of subjects
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than other kind of subjects.
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And we can help them, you know, lean into what they are strong at versus feeling
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like they have to compensate for something else.
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Students who were able to uncover
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really specific program types that they just didn't even know about.
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Probably some of my favorite feedback we've gotten from students are I ended
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up enrolling in a school or in a program within a school that I truly had never
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heard of until, let's say, I put it in front of me.
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And if we can introduce students to programs that really align with what they
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love or what they want to do or their budget or help them stay in an area they
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want to be in, that's a really exciting use case for me because I think it's so overwhelming.
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There's so many options out there and a lot of students just don't know where
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to start. So that's quite a few different kinds of experiences.
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But the point being, we really do try to meet students with where they are and
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what kind of student they are.
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And to me, you know, the more flexible we can be working with different kinds
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of students, the more successful of a platform that we've become.
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That's a great example of like, you know, students not even knowing that something
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existed, but it's like right up there. It's perfect for them.
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Like, yeah, I think that sometimes that's a privilege that families have.
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If you're from a family who have all gone to college, right?
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You probably have more of a background in college types and programs.
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But if maybe you're the first generation in your family going to college,
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where do you begin with this search? And so that's kind of where you folks come in.
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It's so true. And so many students just default to, oh, you know,
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my cousin went here, so I'm going to apply here.
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Or like even this TV character I love went to this school, so that's where I want to go. Yeah.
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Like that's not necessarily bad, but like let's expand your options to like,
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what do you actually want to do?
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And what are your, you know, restraints and long-term goals and all these things.
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So we can kind of make a more cohesive picture of what we should recommend.
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And if you do have your heart set on one place, we can help you reach that goal too.
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Yeah. Want to give students more information based on their unique situation.
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What would you say are some lessons learned along the way? Big takeaways or
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had I known then what I know now?
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Yeah, when we first launched as a platform last year, we're still a very new organization.
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We started a bit more amorphous. We had this kind of one mostly chat-based tool
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that did very similar things to what our platform still does,
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essay support, program discovery, all of the above.
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But it felt very overwhelming. And I think this is what admissions is so scary
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to so many kids and families is there's so many parts involved.
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It's really a months to years long process from figuring out all the schools you want to apply to.
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And even before then, maybe figuring out what you might be interested in in
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terms of types of programs or long term career goals, all the way down to financial resources.
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And how am I going to pay for this? I mean, that's a long journey.
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And it's not easy to just use one amorphous tool to navigate all of that.
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So I think our first learning was to really break it up and why one of the most
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positive pieces of feedback We've gotten from students is are you made it feel
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so much manageable more manageable,
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you know I I only wanted to work on my college essay right now and you had a
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tool just for that and then you had a separate tool just for supplemental essays
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then you had a separate tool just for helping me with my conclusion and so like
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the more we can break it up and just say if today I.
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You used one tool and every time a student uses one of our tools, they unlock a badge.
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So we try to gamify the process. Students can share those badges on social media.
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So we try to make the whole thing feel more like a bit of a game and a bit of
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a social journey. You can share your progress.
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You can share your unique school matches and stories that the AI recommends. Oh, I love that.
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Yeah. So if it feels something more native to how Gen Z actually uses the internet
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and thinks about these kinds of things,
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then they're more likely to want to start earlier, to want to be more engaged,
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and then ultimately, hopefully, end up with a program that, you know,
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is a better fit for them and was something that they were hoping to get into and achieve.
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So I'd say our biggest learnings based on your question are breaking it up into
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more manageable pieces was the biggest change we made about our new platform launch this year.
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And also just making an experience that feels less like a tech platform that,
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you know, your parents or teachers made you sign up for and something that feels
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a little more authentic to how teenagers use the internet,
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how they share with kids, with other kids,
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how they gamify the experience a bit.
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Those are two of the biggest learnings we had in the last year.
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Some people might say there's, you know, other bigger issues of the world of education.
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So why this? Why is this so important? Why this? Why now? Now,
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what would you kind of say to that?
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There's definitely a lot of things to address in the world of education,
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and I certainly don't claim to have the answers to most of them.
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But in this space, which I saw a lot firsthand when it comes to getting into
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college, but frankly, post-secondary options as a whole, whether that's direct-to-workforce, community college,
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trade school, whatever it is, I really saw a need when it comes to students
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just not knowing where to even start and what they even want to do.
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And as I sort of mentioned, just kind of defaulting to something that their
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parents said or their friends are doing. And I really think.
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That it can sort of set you up for, you know, maybe the wrong path when it comes
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to getting yourself maybe into debt that you didn't necessarily want or need
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to go into or choosing a program that you later realize,
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you know, you're going to have to get a different degree in order to pursue,
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you know, maybe it's nursing or law, whatever it is, you realize,
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I wish I had known that a little earlier, so I didn't have to repeat certain
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classes or school, you know, programs, etc.
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So I think it's such a big need. And as I mentioned, you know,
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specifically, what I saw as an advisor is that the costs were so prohibitive
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when it comes to getting this kind of individualized support.
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It's just really unfair.
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And it makes higher education very elitist.
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It's still Yeah, you know, the New York Times just did a study about how being
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wealthy is still like the number one indicator of a student's success when it
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comes to college admissions,
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because there are so many ways that can benefit you, whether it is,
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you know, an individual college advisor or other connections to a university, et cetera.
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So whatever it is, I just think it's hugely important that every student at
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least gets the opportunity to find what the right program is for them and then
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has the best ability to stand out and,
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you know, be as likely as any other student to be admitted based on,
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you know, their unique story and accomplishments.
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So that's really the origin there. And I also just think from a broader perspective.
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Personal branding and storytelling is one one of the most important soft skills
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for teenagers to develop right now, especially in this sort of AI forward world.
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We can automate a lot of things, but we can't really automate our own stories
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and all of our accomplishments.
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So if we can help you just put some of those pieces together and tell a more
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cohesive story about yourself and who you are and how all your different accomplishments
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come together in a way to tell that story, that'll help you not only in your
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college admissions journey, but throughout the rest of your life.
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So that's kind of the big picture stuff that we think about.
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How could we, you know, help you develop your story in this kind of first time
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most students are required to think about themselves in this big picture way.
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And then, you know, ideally, we can help you after that as well.
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So I think it's already a very important issue that's just going to become even more important.
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Yeah, like there's applications for this even after the college admission process,
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like it's building that soft skill.
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Exactly. I love that. Once you get into college, how can we keep developing
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your story to help you, you know, get into that competitive program at school
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or get that first internship or find the right career path.
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Yeah. I think we really, as a team, just have a passion for helping students,
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find those unique connections across what is, for all of us,
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like a very wide range of activities and interests and accomplishments and helping
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you kind of narrow in a little bit to really achieve your goals.
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And that's what we want to help you do.
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So how can folks access this or how can folks get involved?
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You know, what's what's kind of the next step for listeners if they're like, I'm on in?
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How do I do this? Yeah, of course. The most direct way would be to go to our website.
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It's SAI.AI, E-S-A-I.AI. But if you're just kind of getting started and want
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to learn more about the college admissions process or about personal branding,
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we have a big community on TikTok.
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It's at SAI underscore toolkit.
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Same name on Instagram as well. And we also put out a blog and free AI trainings,
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all of which talk about ethical use of AI in the admissions process.
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Our blog talks about a wide range of topics related to the admissions process
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and artificial intelligence and lots of the things we talked about today.
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And all of that is free through our website as well. Great.
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It's really, really interesting, really exciting. And I'm grateful to have you
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in the ELAverse, the ELA extended universe.
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Me too. It was great chatting with you today, Julia. Thank you so much.
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Yeah, thank you. This was really awesome and hope more students will come check us out.
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Well, that's it for us today, folks. Thank you to Julia Dixon.
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And to learn more, check out their website at esai.ai.
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I'm Aurora from ELA, and this was a deep dive with SAI.
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Music.
