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[SPEAKER_02]: The thing which is generally the differentiator is really if people like your brand, you can spend an awful amount of money on search engines and LinkedIn, but then you go to your website, look at your product and it doesn't look good enough, they can bounce off.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's the e-commerce master plan podcast.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Here to help you solve your marketing problems and grow your e-commerce business.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Cutting through the hide-off to bring you inspiration and advice from the e-commerce sector and beyond, here's your host, Chloe Thomas.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Hello and welcome.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's great to have you here.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for hitting play and choosing to listen to one of our inspiring guests.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm super excited to bring you this episode partly because I've known and worked with today's guest for about a decade, always around what's next for email marketing, SMS and customer engagement and he's ace.
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[SPEAKER_00]: He's also now leading Manago AI who are on
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[SPEAKER_00]: arguably pushing the e-commerce ESPCRM thing further and more successfully into AI than anyone else.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And probably most importantly my excitement is because I know from some recent surveys we've run that a lot of you, like about half of you.
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[SPEAKER_00]: have not yet progressed past the basics of using AI within your business.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And this episode is all about how to make the most of AI and agente marketing within your e-commerce store.
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[SPEAKER_00]: We'll be talking about
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[SPEAKER_00]: what Phil's seeing the winners doing, the white those who are pushing it for this, how they're building success using this technology and lots of angles to help you make the most of it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Potentially right now as we go into Q4, but also Q4 and peak rather, but also as we go through 2027.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So some good thoughts, lots of get you thinking here, but lots to also help you get things moving practically in your business.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So make sure you're soon right to the end of the episode, because he's got some ace top tips as well.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And now to introduce our special guest.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Phil Draper is the CEO at Manago AI, an AI-powered customer engagement platform for the modern marketer, which means he's deeply involved in working out how AI can best support e-commerce brands to do more powerful marketing.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Hello Phil.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, Chloe, how are you?
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm good.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's lovely to see you.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to be very careful answering the how am I question because we could talk about that kind of stuff, which the listeners don't need to know about for quite some time.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So let's go podcasty rather than rather than any tangent thing us.
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[SPEAKER_00]: How did you get into a recovery, which weirdly is a question I have never asked you before?
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[SPEAKER_02]: How did you get into a commas, right?
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[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to go half an hour and I'll
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[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the little one thing that some people, it's a surprise when I say this, it's my background's design and then it was back in the day of 1997 or something when web design was a thing and that gradually took me into the internet, which then took me into marketing.
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[SPEAKER_02]: which then took me into sales and marketing and e-commerce, which took me into the bowls I do now, which I actually think is my pretty good angle actually, because I kind of a lot of the, all my customers are marketing some form this CMO, CMO and people as well.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I've walked in the shoes of most of the people that buy the software that at some point in my career, I've helped sell.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So I do kind of understand it from their perspective, which hopefully
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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think as well, there's the whole angle of learning the principles of marketing properly, which I did the CIM exams back in the day and got my diploma and I use that so much without realising it still today, of actually
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[SPEAKER_00]: doing the work to build the marketing plan of the marketing strategy and understanding the customer and all the rest of it, which hasn't changed at all as the, you know, the roles, as the technology evolves.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I guess, you know, with your background in design and then on three different types of e-commerce and digital, that must help as well, having that really solid grounding in the fundamentals.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It also comes back down to customer need at some point, doesn't it?
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[SPEAKER_02]: And the technology changes, you know, obviously the flavor now is AI, which is delivering some great, great gains.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But I remember 20 years ago, when database marketing was at work.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So it's just the same thing, you know, as long as you can commit to your customer and be relevant.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there's obviously a rising expectation for customers now, which is balanced out by the fact that they've got a little time, the pressure's on their time.
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[SPEAKER_02]: obviously increased, so that means you've got to be smart all the way.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I think the the adaptability people have always got to think about changing, you know, that's what work five years ago doesn't work necessarily now, and in any commerce, for example.
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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I think we can all go see those these peaks and troughs.
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[SPEAKER_02]: The abandoned cart, being an eye-opener and a new to-fandle technique, for example, is a kind of thing now, which is just the standard across all the campaigns.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't mean that you still can't, you can't deliver your energy, it can, but it just means you've got to test it, optimize it better, take real feedback, more, use more data, and probably also you've got to implement it faster, because if any technology takes you two days to add that to that, that's now too long and
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[SPEAKER_02]: We, as a service provider, need to make sure that our customers can implement e-commerce technologies fully and faster, because if not, we and they can be getting behind the curve.
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[SPEAKER_00]: are completely agree with you.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to be talking about a Gentic marketing and the key ways of making work for you because you're seeing a lot of brands.
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[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of businesses at the moment working with it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I guess first of all, what do we mean by a Gentic marketing?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Because I think it's a buzzword that gets thrown around a lot or a phrase that gets thrown around a lot.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a disservice to call it a buzzword.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But one which I'm not sure all of us fully understand.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So when you say a Gentic marketing,
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[SPEAKER_00]: So what do you think that it's mean?
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[SPEAKER_02]: a good question.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And I think the definition does vary for people.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's where the AI does more of the lifting to get marketers to the goal faster.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's different to autonomous marketing where you allow the computer to make all the decisions for yourself.
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[SPEAKER_02]: That will be coming down the line.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But when, and to what extent, I'm not quite sure, I'm in the board, probably he's clawed on the call.
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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, you get a little prompt about allow it this time or allow it forever.
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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, and when you get there and allow it forever,
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[SPEAKER_02]: Shall I do I do that?
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[SPEAKER_02]: Don't know.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's the same with autonomous marketing.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And then if we think that, you know, history never repeats, but there are patterns in the past, which can actually help us predict the future.
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[SPEAKER_02]: there's a discipline about when people move from batch and blasts to automation or workflows or life cycles, whatever you call them.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Because it gave you all the controls and all the power, but there was still a problem, do I trust the machine to do it right for me?
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[SPEAKER_02]: So there is that a money took a long time to build up that trust.
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[SPEAKER_02]: and before they could disconnect from pressing the button and trust the system to do it.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And I think autonomous is exactly the same thing.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So I think what's going to happen is we're going to get a lot of people using the gented to change their the vibe coding in the one prompt, the level of the Figma makes, all those things which are very, very easy to do.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And they're going to mean that people can get to age percent in 20% of the time without trans speaking cliches.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And then once that started working, I think at that point you'll start to get
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[SPEAKER_02]: that autonomous parts coming in, which, of course, will follow all the same adoption rules of the yearly adopters, the peaks or leg arms.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But I think at this moment in time, a genetic is probably where it is, because it removes the bar, let's skill, let's time.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And then I think, I might be answering maybe, no big part of the question, can I ask you now, I think there are two parts to the agentic.
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[SPEAKER_02]: There's a bit switch,
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[SPEAKER_02]: does all the nice stuff.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, the classic examples would be give me a subject line, you know, all that kind of stuff.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Boom your nice email campaign.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Boom your a workflow.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And that's that's helping the creative part of the process.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But then there's another part which I think is is being more heavily used if I'm being honest, where it's a faster way to the analysis.
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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, and that part is really interesting, and that's really going quick because, you know, everybody, you know, how many times did we have to put stuff in Excel and you know, is I to do this thing look up any help, right?
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[SPEAKER_02]: and we can see the analytical part in Menagaway is very popular.
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[SPEAKER_02]: People can get to the, how can I be better next time more quickly?
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[SPEAKER_02]: So I think you're going to have parts which allow the creative process, which is really good, but it also can sometimes be taken with the form parts.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But it's faster, so it certainly should be taken on.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And then there's other parts where it just makes things which weren't possible, brings them completely into view.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So that's how I would see the agentex.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's classically defined, I think, by a one-point process.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And then it iterate by a few reps to prompt to get to what you need to do.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I think that analysis part for me is kind of the game changer as you move into more of the agente stuff is because even if you take just the email marketing channel you suddenly go too many variables for the human brain to properly compute you know you've got you've got time of day location of customer device you know all that myriad information that could take your results here there are everywhere for like your black Friday campaign or your you know new product
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[SPEAKER_00]: that it quickly becomes something you can't efficiently analyse as a human anyway, so it's hugely impactful that side of it.
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[SPEAKER_02]: There is another danger, of course, that the analysis can become so easy and so quick.
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[SPEAKER_02]: You spend all your time analysing things rather than correcting what you need to do from the analysis.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's always that problem of, well, that they're called analysis paralysis, and now the analysis is so fast, you've got a chance of more paralysis, so you've
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[SPEAKER_02]: But it is definitely a different problem because how many times can we also have a data problem.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I've got so much infrastructure data.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what to do with it.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And now we have a tool at our fingertips that can actually give you a good idea of what that would be.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's almost like you have these levels of, I'm asking chat to you be T for some copy.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And then you go up to the, the agetic playground, I suppose, where you're going, oh, this is interesting.
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[SPEAKER_00]: This is interesting.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I can do that, but nothing's strategic and nothing's not as much as being implemented.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you're getting distracted by the analysis.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You distracted by creating things, but not actually going hold on a minute.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I could do these 20 things, but what should I actually do next?
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I guess the next question for you is, so we know we've probably got to embrace agentic marketing.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's where everything's heading.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It makes sense for the business.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But what should our goals be with it?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Are we looking to do more?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Are we looking to connect with our customers better?
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[SPEAKER_00]: We're looking to time save?
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[SPEAKER_00]: What's the aim of it?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Because I always think like having that goal that aim helps you make sense of it and actually become strategic if you realise why you're
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's a good question.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I probably answer that question almost for my positions to see what I want my employees calls to be.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, it comes down to, we're in the business of making money on me.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Everybody's trying to sell more stuff.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And as a result, I think that if it can take you further down that path as
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[SPEAKER_02]: then making more money it has to be used.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Now where I would publish CD opportunity for AI for a lot of them e-commerce businesses.
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[SPEAKER_02]: is again, for my experience speaking to marketers at events in sales processes in customer reviews, there's always been an element of, if I've said, who's thinks they've got their marketing strategy perfect, right?
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's a very, very difficult question to answer that, and progress can be quite perfectionist, can be suffocating, but progress can be quite alarming.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that with AI, making it faster and easier to deliver things, the revenue opportunity, I think the companies using AI, is instead of having a marketing strategy to another than a 20% implemented because you were not skills, it were not time, we were not technology.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Now,
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[SPEAKER_02]: realistically you should be able to get to 7580% of your marketing plan done because we've removed the barriers at time of data and of course this then takes you down to the aggregation of small games that you know there's very not really in our big low-hanging fruit because the e-commerce industry is relatively mature and people are aware of the tactics so therefore the game comes from implementing more of your nudge factors I think to drive your revenue
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[SPEAKER_02]: And that now can be done the barrier to that is reduced because of the time and ease of the AI, and the gender care I'm particular.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So that's where I think the opportunity exists.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's a bit like, and I know you live through this step change in email marketing same as I did when it was like to create an abandoned cart campaign went from being a three-page brief to your developers who would then do it and you chart test it and you do it and you test it and you do it and then you will breathe a sigh of relief when you put it live and it actually worked to a click and drop system.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And it was like once that happened it was like if you didn't have a band in cart you were massively missing out but now it's if you don't have your band in cart and you've analyzed it and you've used the AI to build out the different flows and you're keeping that update every month because there's no excuse not to anymore because you've got the AI support to analyze and to build that's where we're shifting to in a microcosm.
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[SPEAKER_02]: absolutely yeah yeah and then of course you know if you're abandoning car gets done in four hours rather than four days you've also got three and a half hours to look at something else so therefore that's the completeness of your marketing strategy which I think will be we'll be coming around and that ties into what you know the rising customer expectations you know so did the window I think actually if I'm being totally on its where
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[SPEAKER_02]: that the speed games from the AI can deliver an advantage to the marketer.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But more than five years, when everyone's got a Gen2KI and everyone's completed their marketing strategy, it would be like going back to your abandoned carts.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And now we have five years to go, 10 years ago, it did give an advantage to them, but now it doesn't because the playing feels leveled out.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So that's why it is a case of like, this is the time to make that move.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And so what are the key things we need to get right to make this work within our organization?
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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we've greatly touched on data earlier, but what are the things you're seeing?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Because I'm sure, you know, you're seeing some of your clients absolutely fly with this.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And others really struggle to get beyond, give me a subject line.
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[SPEAKER_00]: What is it that separates those who are really doing well with the deployment from those who aren't.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we can see all the data how it's being used.
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[SPEAKER_02]: This is the wonderful thing, you know, we can see all the prompts that have been done and we've feed that back into our product gets better.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's probably though, not really a technical answer there, so I think it's really sips around the mindset of the users, you know, because if,
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[SPEAKER_02]: This is take AI because it can sound scary, especially with the dim on-grip which is going on.
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[SPEAKER_02]: If you just want that, is that as a latest bit of technology we need to use.
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[SPEAKER_02]: There are always people to get on that first of all, and there's some people that take longer.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So I think the reality is, just try it, right?
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[SPEAKER_02]: And anybody that hooks up claw to Excel will never want to use Excel again.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And it will just use AI or maybe an MCP version that software vendor and cross reference to each other's data will never want to not do that again, but how you make that first step is really a really difficult part.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So we can say how many I've been in the more marked in business software.
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[SPEAKER_02]: New 20 years, but there's always been that same thing about we just got to try and get to try something new and there's people that do and there's people that don't.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So I think the people that will stand up and people that approach the challenge with the right mindset to do the technology, you don't even need to send anything out, but just try it.
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[SPEAKER_02]: you know, and then you'll never go back.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't mean, you know, it is like the subject line of course, but it's like it's the extra parts when you start putting a few things together and link them together gets really, really powerful.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, obviously you need some technology which has got some decent AI in there, but I think you need a mindset which is naturally inquisitive.
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[SPEAKER_02]: and it doesn't demand to get a few things one.
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[SPEAKER_02]: You've probably got to build a business case maybe to your bosses or maybe to or the other way down to convince your people below that the AI is not going to take their job right because that's the way you're people on some people, my answer to that is quite simple.
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[SPEAKER_02]: AI is not going to take your job, but one of your competitors using the AI may take your job.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it's also, you know, it took about the top down bit.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's the, it's important for the people at the top of the business to create an environment and a culture where it's acceptable for the team to play with AI, take the time to learn how it actually works.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like we've had a few businesses on the show talking about how they're implementing it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: and almost always the idea of an AI champion in each team comes up and cross business working groups to share how they're learning and how they're using.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It does seem to be a, it needs that push from a breath to go.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You're allowed to try this out.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You're allowed to fail with this.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You're allowed to actually do it and create that scenario where it's all right to be an
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, I agree.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And certainly the peer sessions where somebody that's known and trusted can demonstrate some of the games is the way.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, right at the start of this, I remember this, or are there any, can we get some need to come in and teach as AI, if I don't know, that's not how this works, you know?
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's not, you've just got to get your hands dirty.
18:34.810 --> 18:37.352
[SPEAKER_02]: And we have, we really lean into this.
18:37.372 --> 18:38.293
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we did re-brand,
18:38.853 --> 18:40.956
[SPEAKER_02]: a few months ago when we actually put AI in our name.
18:41.336 --> 18:48.205
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's not just because of the capabilities and the platform, but also we've reworked a lot of our process internally for the new AI world.
18:48.586 --> 18:53.292
[SPEAKER_02]: So like the data reporting, for example, the way that we might build our prospect lists.
18:54.273 --> 19:02.242
[SPEAKER_02]: the way that we build our pitch decks and our demos, all of that now is it's called from some data points and then it's actually built and delivered by AI.
19:02.482 --> 19:14.414
[SPEAKER_02]: The delivers in the person but all the background supporting information, what would take hours and date by person is now taking that to a 9% level using AI and it looks incredible actually.
19:14.454 --> 19:16.957
[SPEAKER_02]: Not only does it look good in better need to do the speed of it.
19:17.617 --> 19:27.906
[SPEAKER_02]: It is off the hook and what we've ended up doing was on our monthly all hands, but to have a regular session, 15 minutes right, here we go, person stand up, talk is what you've done in the last month.
19:28.486 --> 19:30.548
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, when people were off, that sounds good.
19:30.788 --> 19:41.257
[SPEAKER_02]: And he kind of started them wanting to experiment and get some savings, not everybody was confident enough to want to stand up and speak from at the company, of course.
19:46.788 --> 19:57.495
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think it's like, you know, you imagine someone gives you a spreadsheet for the first time because it's a really powerful tool here use it for something and you're like, it's a load of squares and I've no idea what I was supposed to be doing with it.
19:58.076 --> 20:08.483
[SPEAKER_00]: It's exactly the same with a prompt box and some Claude folders or you know, going on to, you know, you get the email from your supply again, we've added an AI agent to the back end go use it, you know, like.
20:09.117 --> 20:10.939
[SPEAKER_00]: what for though, you know?
20:11.819 --> 20:18.685
[SPEAKER_00]: And having those, those examples and someone on the team who you can go and grab a coffee with and go, so how did you actually do that?
20:18.705 --> 20:22.989
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I think I can do something similar over here can be, can be super bad for you.
20:23.069 --> 20:27.232
[SPEAKER_00]: I totally get me a comment from that's not about getting someone in to teach everyone for half a day.
20:27.252 --> 20:28.573
[SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no.
20:28.653 --> 20:29.254
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly, it's not.
20:29.494 --> 20:32.517
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, like all of these things, it comes with some risks, risks doesn't it?
20:32.537 --> 20:34.138
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think I'm at a post
20:36.903 --> 21:06.550
[SPEAKER_02]: Now we haven't got to be much more stringent we would be interviews because everybody now comes in with a bit of a bluff and then the bluff looks quite solid by AI and and the moment we get a snippet is actually been to AI you've kind of got a bit of off it's a bit of a problem and so there's there are some challenges with that because he makes everybody an expert so what you really looking for now is is not just the cream we're looking for the very top of the cream you know because that's AI and and they would everybody to be better.
21:07.470 --> 21:23.101
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay Phil, so we've talked a kind of about whole pile of things there, but I particularly liked, you know, you're saying about how the opportunity now is you pushed the 75% point on your strategy, whereas previously that you'd only got to the 20% or you pushed.
21:24.902 --> 21:35.150
[SPEAKER_00]: to the next level with what you're doing and that's where we will win is not just by doing what was the tick box activity of a couple of years ago but by pushing beyond that optimizing beyond that and so on.
21:36.071 --> 21:47.520
[SPEAKER_00]: Is there anything for those who are, you know, approaching the 75% what are you seeing them doing that's enabling them to kind of really be leading the field at the
21:53.708 --> 22:02.451
[SPEAKER_02]: different data sources, different platforms, and then getting the AI to putting it to work to find trends and analyze that.
22:02.511 --> 22:06.393
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's interesting actually as recently the headless has come back to the conversation, hasn't it?
22:07.422 --> 22:24.949
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's where that comes from, because if you can get your customer data, your loyalty data may be even your website behavior data, or call handling your call listening software, or even if it's traditional, it comes business, you know, tool receipts and store data.
22:25.569 --> 22:30.971
[SPEAKER_02]: Suddenly, you can put those together and get some insight, which is really, really useful and powerful.
22:31.451 --> 22:35.092
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think, in terms of the question, what do we see that most powerful people are doing
22:36.993 --> 22:41.275
[SPEAKER_02]: Then everything can have done it now, take next, go and watch next all the time.
22:41.835 --> 22:46.997
[SPEAKER_02]: And that naturally takes one, two, and combining multiple different data sets to get better analysis.
22:49.858 --> 22:54.621
[SPEAKER_01]: E-commerce Masterplan is supported by some of the greatest companies in the E-commerce sector.
22:54.761 --> 23:02.884
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's a reminder of who they are.
23:03.064 --> 23:04.885
[SPEAKER_01]: It's time for the top six round.
23:07.472 --> 23:13.119
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I love this section because it gives me and I'll list those some really quick ideas for taking our businesses to the next level.
23:13.179 --> 23:14.561
[SPEAKER_00]: Feel that you're ready for the top tips.
23:14.741 --> 23:15.702
[SPEAKER_02]: Go on then, hit me.
23:16.003 --> 23:17.485
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, the book top tip.
23:17.825 --> 23:22.791
[SPEAKER_00]: If everyone listening to this podcast agreed to take Friday off, read a book to make their business better.
23:23.232 --> 23:24.754
[SPEAKER_00]: Which book would you recommend?
23:25.751 --> 23:31.435
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, it probably a marketer's favorite, but Huawei's southern's ultimate is very strong.
23:31.956 --> 23:42.644
[SPEAKER_02]: It picks up on a few of the things I've talked about before, you know, there's not really new techniques, there's the opportunities exist within the gaps or the speed to deliver the technique.
23:43.364 --> 23:50.330
[SPEAKER_02]: and is psychoanalytical behavior that he always talks about where he tries to think of a bottom backwards.
23:50.691 --> 24:00.479
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just, it's a fascinating read, but I think it's particularly relevant for this because it's not the new, it's the gaps in between, I think, where the opportunities are.
24:00.880 --> 24:03.022
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's if that's the one I would recommend.
24:03.662 --> 24:06.203
[SPEAKER_02]: and it's also one of those books that you can read and laugh at.
24:06.243 --> 24:09.284
[SPEAKER_02]: You can read on your drinking a pinnacle out of on a sun lounger.
24:09.304 --> 24:11.004
[SPEAKER_02]: You don't need to read it in the office, right?
24:11.064 --> 24:11.764
[SPEAKER_02]: It's one of those ones.
24:12.225 --> 24:16.066
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the mindset bit, and this you have to excuse me, this is also of the time.
24:16.626 --> 24:21.147
[SPEAKER_02]: The book I've just recently finished is the Oasis One, which is a sound so very loud.
24:21.627 --> 24:23.328
[SPEAKER_02]: Now the reason I'm mentioning that is because
24:24.128 --> 24:26.529
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the mindset thing that I spoke about.
24:26.589 --> 24:28.150
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you may well just have to cut this out.
24:28.390 --> 24:32.573
[SPEAKER_02]: Chloe, but like I said, I've just subscribed to my tickets.
24:32.613 --> 24:34.014
[SPEAKER_02]: I saw them when they came last year.
24:34.434 --> 24:36.395
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm not trying to say that it'd be successful.
24:36.415 --> 24:40.637
[SPEAKER_02]: You need to be for Manchester or, you know, be a rock and roller.
24:41.098 --> 24:47.561
[SPEAKER_02]: But what I think's interesting about that is when they didn't have anything, they believed they could be the biggest rock band in the world.
24:47.681 --> 24:50.643
[SPEAKER_02]: And they nothing stopped and trying to become that.
24:51.283 --> 24:53.764
[SPEAKER_02]: So you ask the question about what do people need?
24:53.804 --> 24:57.946
[SPEAKER_02]: If like, leaving yourself, approach every problem with the positive mentality.
24:58.366 --> 25:01.508
[SPEAKER_02]: If you approach from the negative mentality, you will always fail.
25:02.068 --> 25:08.171
[SPEAKER_02]: So believing yourself, positive mindset, and I think, you know, that puts you on the right path.
25:08.231 --> 25:09.031
[SPEAKER_02]: So there are the two ones.
25:09.132 --> 25:12.093
[SPEAKER_02]: One is, I think, opportunity spotting ones mindset related.
25:12.445 --> 25:12.685
[SPEAKER_00]: Nice.
25:12.725 --> 25:13.546
[SPEAKER_00]: I like that pair.
25:14.246 --> 25:15.667
[SPEAKER_00]: I imagine everyone's going to pick the OAS.
25:15.687 --> 25:16.588
[SPEAKER_00]: It's one for Friday.
25:16.668 --> 25:17.088
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
25:17.108 --> 25:18.870
[SPEAKER_02]: Why not?
25:18.970 --> 25:19.590
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a good spot.
25:19.790 --> 25:21.091
[SPEAKER_00]: Do Rory's next Friday.
25:21.552 --> 25:23.293
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, the traffic top tip.
25:23.393 --> 25:27.636
[SPEAKER_00]: Which marketing method do you either prize above all others or think doesn't get the press.
25:27.776 --> 25:28.737
[SPEAKER_00]: It deserves.
25:29.978 --> 25:30.258
[SPEAKER_02]: Well.
25:31.582 --> 25:42.871
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm traffic top tape, I mean it's not new, but certainly, I think we're in a change in landscape traffic where AI drive traffic is obviously rising very high.
25:43.651 --> 25:48.074
[SPEAKER_02]: We can see on our own website, for example, the amount of traffic that is coming in from the,
25:49.355 --> 26:01.624
[SPEAKER_02]: the chat engines, the AI engines so it is increasing and of course it's normally coming in more qualified because it's not a lot of the lab you're lifting so it's not new but I think I think that's just a direction of travel.
26:02.184 --> 26:04.146
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to give you two answers Chloe.
26:04.346 --> 26:09.710
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay and this one head, this one next one probably goes back really to my design background.
26:10.250 --> 26:23.201
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, there's always been whether it's a way to, you need to have your social media or Google on a pando, I'll give it a update right, there's always a way where you think you're going to get ahead of it, it catches up ultimately.
26:23.721 --> 26:31.648
[SPEAKER_02]: And the thing which is generally the differentiator is really if people like your brand, if it looks good, people buy with their minds.
26:32.388 --> 26:36.391
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that you can spend an awful amount of money on all these, uh,
26:37.272 --> 26:39.554
[SPEAKER_02]: in hope on search engines and LinkedIn.
26:40.034 --> 26:44.018
[SPEAKER_02]: But then if they go to your website, look at your product, and it doesn't look good enough, they're going to bounce off.
26:44.238 --> 26:46.680
[SPEAKER_02]: People buy otherwise, it's got to look fantastic.
26:47.621 --> 26:50.123
[SPEAKER_02]: And it ties into that rising customer expectation.
26:50.163 --> 26:56.749
[SPEAKER_02]: So I, you know, that don't forget how AI will be changing your traffic sources.
26:57.069 --> 27:01.733
[SPEAKER_02]: But then when they do get a given something which looks good, which looks credible, which is a brand-making believe in.
27:02.366 --> 27:07.713
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it's going to be interesting to see how that changes web design.
27:07.833 --> 27:14.281
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, everyone's very focused on changing the web design in order to make sure they get found by the LLMs.
27:14.361 --> 27:18.767
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's going to be interesting to see how it changes what we put on the website if the traffic is more qualified.
27:18.867 --> 27:25.472
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think you will affect that as well, because in going back to this thing, the AI raises a bar, gets opening towards you nine, seven more quickly.
27:26.052 --> 27:29.115
[SPEAKER_02]: Roll it on five or six years, everyone's gonna have the most fantastic websites.
27:29.615 --> 27:31.697
[SPEAKER_02]: But then that means how do you stand out?
27:31.737 --> 27:37.281
[SPEAKER_02]: You've got to have a personality, you've got to have a brand voice, you've got to be bold enough to be different and look good and be credible.
27:38.021 --> 27:40.663
[SPEAKER_02]: So the brand is only just gonna come to the fore.
27:41.024 --> 27:46.007
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's very difficult for marketers, I know to say we're gonna spend X-Mount on brand because
27:46.948 --> 27:52.430
[SPEAKER_02]: You will have to push your boss or, you know, this campaign got as x-many leaps.
27:52.970 --> 27:59.793
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we know that's how the game works, but if your brand is working for you correctly, it acts as a halo on everything that does before.
28:00.433 --> 28:05.795
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, some businesses are very fortunate to have a single channel which works and then you can see the acquisition.
28:06.615 --> 28:18.020
[SPEAKER_02]: But a lot of businesses work in the much more complicated sales cycle, where it's multi-touch, multi-eptribution, multi-bayer, multi-time frame, and those parts, it's the brand which links them all together.
28:18.698 --> 28:19.338
[SPEAKER_00]: are so true.
28:20.159 --> 28:23.421
[SPEAKER_00]: I could ask you about 25 up questions on that, but this is the top tip round.
28:23.781 --> 28:26.903
[SPEAKER_00]: And the audience know it's supposed to be relatively quick, so okay, on.
28:26.923 --> 28:29.145
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll see you next.
28:29.365 --> 28:33.148
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, don't have to get one word next, but it does mean I'm not allowed to ask 20 follow-ups.
28:33.448 --> 28:42.454
[SPEAKER_00]: A tall top tip, maybe a collaboration tool, a social media plugin, a phone-up, or just a way of working, is there a call little tool you use that makes you and your team
28:44.463 --> 28:50.728
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, obviously lovable is great for people that want to try and do a prototype to something.
28:50.748 --> 29:00.596
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, lovable say it's production ready, but I would be mindful of that, I think it's much better as a prototype until before you pass on to the experts, but they may well disagree.
29:01.376 --> 29:07.301
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the Figma make the vibe coding version of Figma is actually really quite good as well.
29:08.002 --> 29:09.102
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, it's very good for
29:10.123 --> 29:13.805
[SPEAKER_02]: If you, if somebody is a designer, go to know the tools, it's quite good for that.
29:13.845 --> 29:19.147
[SPEAKER_02]: You've still got to know the design and the example, if you, this might be a bit the longer one.
29:19.167 --> 29:21.367
[SPEAKER_02]: So is that you can do amazing things in PowerPoint.
29:21.928 --> 29:26.229
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're a designer, but if you don't, you still can't do a good PowerPoint design.
29:26.249 --> 29:27.950
[SPEAKER_02]: If you, you know, I haven't got a design mindset.
29:27.970 --> 29:28.510
[SPEAKER_02]: It's still can't.
29:28.530 --> 29:29.991
[SPEAKER_02]: You speak my makes at the mindset.
29:30.591 --> 29:32.072
[SPEAKER_02]: And the knowledge is still important.
29:32.632 --> 29:37.714
[SPEAKER_02]: The one which I think everybody, I use all the time, which is available to everybody, is, is whispered flow.
29:38.334 --> 29:43.757
[SPEAKER_02]: which is the one I use and that is absolutely transformed probably how I work in the last six months.
29:43.797 --> 29:56.123
[SPEAKER_02]: And now I hardly type at all, you know, I just speaking to it, it takes out all the pauses, hesitations, reframe things so that the structure of the sentences and more logical and it's so much quicker.
29:56.663 --> 29:58.384
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a no takeover meetings now.
29:58.504 --> 30:00.625
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's one I would absolutely use.
30:00.665 --> 30:05.007
[SPEAKER_02]: I think once once you do that, the keyboard's almost gone.
30:05.426 --> 30:06.707
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
30:07.087 --> 30:07.968
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
30:08.348 --> 30:10.189
[SPEAKER_00]: Me, no, I can't, I tried.
30:10.609 --> 30:11.189
[SPEAKER_00]: I failed.
30:11.870 --> 30:13.691
[SPEAKER_00]: I cannot bring myself to talk.
30:14.451 --> 30:16.313
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just as ridiculous for a podcast there.
30:16.333 --> 30:17.033
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a podcast there.
30:17.373 --> 30:20.555
[SPEAKER_00]: But I really struggle to talk my thoughts in that way.
30:20.635 --> 30:22.296
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm very addicted to my keyboard.
30:22.876 --> 30:25.238
[SPEAKER_00]: I know I'm an unusual person in that respect.
30:25.794 --> 30:25.994
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
30:26.174 --> 30:28.775
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, don't remember one when I said it moves keep on it doesn't.
30:29.555 --> 30:32.656
[SPEAKER_02]: I will put it into this before and then probably edit it and then send it.
30:32.776 --> 30:37.137
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's a final edit rather than active creation is still published.
30:37.177 --> 30:39.398
[SPEAKER_02]: It makes me three times more efficient on those things.
30:39.638 --> 30:41.339
[SPEAKER_00]: I will probably try it again next year.
30:41.679 --> 30:42.339
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
30:42.719 --> 30:46.340
[SPEAKER_00]: Because because I everyone tells me it's a so clearly I was doing something wrong.
30:47.320 --> 30:52.362
[SPEAKER_00]: The carbon top tip, what's your favorite way to reduce the carbon footprint of an e-commerce store?
30:53.128 --> 30:57.550
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a tricky one because it's not really my realm of specialists and my afraid.
30:58.130 --> 31:04.052
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'd be very confident to say risk-provover change in life, but I don't think I can necessarily say something which would say the planet.
31:04.752 --> 31:12.635
[SPEAKER_02]: The only thing which probably makes sense in our interview courses is choosing providers that are part of the warbling trust and carbon neutral.
31:13.015 --> 31:18.317
[SPEAKER_02]: So therefore marketers, e-commerce marketers can ensure they're not
31:20.145 --> 31:28.408
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, especially in e-commerce, it's very easy to ignore your digital footprint because your physical footprint is so large and so loud.
31:28.748 --> 31:37.211
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, the digital side of it is always worth doing at least an audit once a year on and seeing what you're storing and what you're using that could do better.
31:37.411 --> 31:39.392
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a perfectly good carbon top tip.
31:39.612 --> 31:40.032
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
31:40.492 --> 31:41.833
[SPEAKER_00]: We're very pleased to have that one.
31:42.253 --> 31:42.733
[SPEAKER_00]: I hope so.
31:43.293 --> 31:54.796
[SPEAKER_00]: Before we say goodbye, please let the audience know where they can find you, Manago AI, if they're interested in fully embracing this opportunity that a Gentic marketing is going to give them.
31:55.296 --> 31:56.257
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, absolutely.
31:56.277 --> 32:02.958
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, happy to have people returning me on LinkedIn, Phil Drake, born LinkedIn as the title on the bottom of this says.
32:03.959 --> 32:05.659
[SPEAKER_02]: And then, fortunately more about Manago AI,
32:12.501 --> 32:22.610
[SPEAKER_02]: And we can find out more about the product we do, customer engagement platform, very heavy e-commerce features, specialisms, these free trials on there as well, so people can see it and with their own eyes.
32:23.151 --> 32:30.397
[SPEAKER_02]: As anything, there's a whole load of features, the best way to get the values followed by a demo, but the best place to start all of those in queries is the website.
32:30.827 --> 32:31.047
[SPEAKER_00]: awesome.
32:31.107 --> 32:39.097
[SPEAKER_00]: And wherever you're listening to this, uh, everybody you will find a link to the Menaga AI website somewhere very close to where you are right now.
32:39.617 --> 32:42.340
[SPEAKER_00]: Phil, thank you so much for coming on the show.
32:42.360 --> 32:45.464
[SPEAKER_00]: It's been lovely to catch up and to talk about such an interesting topic with you.
32:45.484 --> 32:46.405
[SPEAKER_00]: So thank you for being here.
32:47.026 --> 32:47.566
[SPEAKER_02]: My pleasure.
32:47.626 --> 32:49.308
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you very much for having you on your podcast.
32:49.348 --> 32:49.869
[SPEAKER_02]: We'd enjoyed it.
32:55.590 --> 33:01.318
[SPEAKER_00]: So obviously, a real trait for me to get to catch up with Phil, but I suspect you all got quite a lot out of that session as well.
33:01.898 --> 33:07.766
[SPEAKER_00]: What I find really interesting is that yet again, in marketing, yet again in e-commerce.
33:08.867 --> 33:31.977
[SPEAKER_00]: the tools are becoming a level playing field for all of us and the ones who are actually going to get the results from all of this are those who have the mindset to get going with it because at the moment there is still some level of first mover advantage and then those who have the strategic and the marketing now to understand how to get the best out of those tools and to make the right decisions and to work on the right areas.
33:32.398 --> 33:35.119
[SPEAKER_00]: So super, super fascinating to hear all that from Phil because
33:38.220 --> 33:41.825
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a huge percentage of their user base that are already using the agentex.
33:41.865 --> 33:45.030
[SPEAKER_00]: They have the data to see in the case that is to see how people are using this.
33:45.811 --> 33:53.742
[SPEAKER_00]: Which I guess in some ways makes it seem a bit more straightforward to get started because it is just about having a go and getting your mindset and thinking like a good marketer.
33:54.369 --> 34:02.451
[SPEAKER_00]: You can get your hands on our notes from this episode, including those top tips and links to what we chatted about by heading over to ecommercemasterplanned.com.
34:03.012 --> 34:09.153
[SPEAKER_00]: Use ECMP.info forward slash six one seven to head straight to the correct page on the website.
34:09.713 --> 34:12.374
[SPEAKER_00]: And when you get there, you can add yourself to our email list.
34:13.074 --> 34:16.996
[SPEAKER_00]: If you liked this episode, then make sure you tune in again next week.
34:17.056 --> 34:20.957
[SPEAKER_00]: I know, normally I give you a past episode to look at this time I'm giving you a new one.
34:21.897 --> 34:30.584
[SPEAKER_00]: Next week, we've got Raymond from Car Well back on the show again, to give us an update on all the big AI and tech projects they're working on.
34:30.604 --> 34:41.153
[SPEAKER_00]: I know a lot of you enjoyed that episode earlier, I think earlier this year, where he talks about where he was, but he will be talking about how they are delivering that mindset piece across the business.
34:41.393 --> 34:44.156
[SPEAKER_00]: So definitely a good one to follow on from this.
34:44.196 --> 34:47.038
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you're listening to this one the first week, guys, I have you can have to wait a little bit.
34:47.498 --> 34:48.679
[SPEAKER_00]: So, so listen to that.
34:49.620 --> 34:54.482
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm thank you for tuning in to this and every episode that you do of the e-commerce master plan podcast.
34:54.862 --> 35:05.425
[SPEAKER_00]: I bring you a new one every week because I want to inspire and help you to succeed and thrive with your business, including encouraging both you and your customers to make more sustainable buying decisions.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So if you know someone they show can help, please tell them to listen to the e-commerce master plan podcast.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I hope you have a great week and do not forget to keep optimizing.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for listening to the e-commerce Master Plan podcast.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Find out more at e-commercemasterplanned.com Slash Podcast.
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[SPEAKER_02]: The thing which is generally the differentiator is really if people like your brand, you can spend an awful amount of money on search engines and LinkedIn, but then you go to your website, look at your product and it doesn't look good enough, they can bounce off.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's the e-commerce master plan podcast.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Here to help you solve your marketing problems and grow your e-commerce business.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Cutting through the hide-off to bring you inspiration and advice from the e-commerce sector and beyond, here's your host, Chloe Thomas.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Hello and welcome.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's great to have you here.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for hitting play and choosing to listen to one of our inspiring guests.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm super excited to bring you this episode partly because I've known and worked with today's guest for about a decade, always around what's next for email marketing, SMS and customer engagement and he's ace.
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[SPEAKER_00]: He's also now leading Manago AI who are on
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[SPEAKER_00]: arguably pushing the e-commerce ESPCRM thing further and more successfully into AI than anyone else.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And probably most importantly my excitement is because I know from some recent surveys we've run that a lot of you, like about half of you.
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[SPEAKER_00]: have not yet progressed past the basics of using AI within your business.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And this episode is all about how to make the most of AI and agente marketing within your e-commerce store.
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[SPEAKER_00]: We'll be talking about
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[SPEAKER_00]: what Phil's seeing the winners doing, the white those who are pushing it for this, how they're building success using this technology and lots of angles to help you make the most of it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Potentially right now as we go into Q4, but also Q4 and peak rather, but also as we go through 2027.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So some good thoughts, lots of get you thinking here, but lots to also help you get things moving practically in your business.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So make sure you're soon right to the end of the episode, because he's got some ace top tips as well.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And now to introduce our special guest.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Phil Draper is the CEO at Manago AI, an AI-powered customer engagement platform for the modern marketer, which means he's deeply involved in working out how AI can best support e-commerce brands to do more powerful marketing.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Hello Phil.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, Chloe, how are you?
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm good.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's lovely to see you.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to be very careful answering the how am I question because we could talk about that kind of stuff, which the listeners don't need to know about for quite some time.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So let's go podcasty rather than rather than any tangent thing us.
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[SPEAKER_00]: How did you get into a recovery, which weirdly is a question I have never asked you before?
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[SPEAKER_02]: How did you get into a commas, right?
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[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to go half an hour and I'll
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[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the little one thing that some people, it's a surprise when I say this, it's my background's design and then it was back in the day of 1997 or something when web design was a thing and that gradually took me into the internet, which then took me into marketing.
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[SPEAKER_02]: which then took me into sales and marketing and e-commerce, which took me into the bowls I do now, which I actually think is my pretty good angle actually, because I kind of a lot of the, all my customers are marketing some form this CMO, CMO and people as well.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I've walked in the shoes of most of the people that buy the software that at some point in my career, I've helped sell.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So I do kind of understand it from their perspective, which hopefully
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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think as well, there's the whole angle of learning the principles of marketing properly, which I did the CIM exams back in the day and got my diploma and I use that so much without realising it still today, of actually
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[SPEAKER_00]: doing the work to build the marketing plan of the marketing strategy and understanding the customer and all the rest of it, which hasn't changed at all as the, you know, the roles, as the technology evolves.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I guess, you know, with your background in design and then on three different types of e-commerce and digital, that must help as well, having that really solid grounding in the fundamentals.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It also comes back down to customer need at some point, doesn't it?
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[SPEAKER_02]: And the technology changes, you know, obviously the flavor now is AI, which is delivering some great, great gains.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But I remember 20 years ago, when database marketing was at work.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So it's just the same thing, you know, as long as you can commit to your customer and be relevant.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there's obviously a rising expectation for customers now, which is balanced out by the fact that they've got a little time, the pressure's on their time.
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[SPEAKER_02]: obviously increased, so that means you've got to be smart all the way.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I think the the adaptability people have always got to think about changing, you know, that's what work five years ago doesn't work necessarily now, and in any commerce, for example.
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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I think we can all go see those these peaks and troughs.
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[SPEAKER_02]: The abandoned cart, being an eye-opener and a new to-fandle technique, for example, is a kind of thing now, which is just the standard across all the campaigns.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't mean that you still can't, you can't deliver your energy, it can, but it just means you've got to test it, optimize it better, take real feedback, more, use more data, and probably also you've got to implement it faster, because if any technology takes you two days to add that to that, that's now too long and
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[SPEAKER_02]: We, as a service provider, need to make sure that our customers can implement e-commerce technologies fully and faster, because if not, we and they can be getting behind the curve.
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[SPEAKER_00]: are completely agree with you.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to be talking about a Gentic marketing and the key ways of making work for you because you're seeing a lot of brands.
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[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of businesses at the moment working with it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I guess first of all, what do we mean by a Gentic marketing?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Because I think it's a buzzword that gets thrown around a lot or a phrase that gets thrown around a lot.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a disservice to call it a buzzword.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But one which I'm not sure all of us fully understand.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So when you say a Gentic marketing,
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[SPEAKER_00]: So what do you think that it's mean?
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[SPEAKER_02]: a good question.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And I think the definition does vary for people.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's where the AI does more of the lifting to get marketers to the goal faster.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's different to autonomous marketing where you allow the computer to make all the decisions for yourself.
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[SPEAKER_02]: That will be coming down the line.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But when, and to what extent, I'm not quite sure, I'm in the board, probably he's clawed on the call.
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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, you get a little prompt about allow it this time or allow it forever.
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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, and when you get there and allow it forever,
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[SPEAKER_02]: Shall I do I do that?
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[SPEAKER_02]: Don't know.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's the same with autonomous marketing.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And then if we think that, you know, history never repeats, but there are patterns in the past, which can actually help us predict the future.
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[SPEAKER_02]: there's a discipline about when people move from batch and blasts to automation or workflows or life cycles, whatever you call them.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Because it gave you all the controls and all the power, but there was still a problem, do I trust the machine to do it right for me?
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[SPEAKER_02]: So there is that a money took a long time to build up that trust.
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[SPEAKER_02]: and before they could disconnect from pressing the button and trust the system to do it.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And I think autonomous is exactly the same thing.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So I think what's going to happen is we're going to get a lot of people using the gented to change their the vibe coding in the one prompt, the level of the Figma makes, all those things which are very, very easy to do.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And they're going to mean that people can get to age percent in 20% of the time without trans speaking cliches.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And then once that started working, I think at that point you'll start to get
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[SPEAKER_02]: that autonomous parts coming in, which, of course, will follow all the same adoption rules of the yearly adopters, the peaks or leg arms.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But I think at this moment in time, a genetic is probably where it is, because it removes the bar, let's skill, let's time.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And then I think, I might be answering maybe, no big part of the question, can I ask you now, I think there are two parts to the agentic.
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[SPEAKER_02]: There's a bit switch,
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[SPEAKER_02]: does all the nice stuff.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, the classic examples would be give me a subject line, you know, all that kind of stuff.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Boom your nice email campaign.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Boom your a workflow.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And that's that's helping the creative part of the process.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But then there's another part which I think is is being more heavily used if I'm being honest, where it's a faster way to the analysis.
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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, and that part is really interesting, and that's really going quick because, you know, everybody, you know, how many times did we have to put stuff in Excel and you know, is I to do this thing look up any help, right?
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[SPEAKER_02]: and we can see the analytical part in Menagaway is very popular.
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[SPEAKER_02]: People can get to the, how can I be better next time more quickly?
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[SPEAKER_02]: So I think you're going to have parts which allow the creative process, which is really good, but it also can sometimes be taken with the form parts.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But it's faster, so it certainly should be taken on.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And then there's other parts where it just makes things which weren't possible, brings them completely into view.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So that's how I would see the agentex.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's classically defined, I think, by a one-point process.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And then it iterate by a few reps to prompt to get to what you need to do.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I think that analysis part for me is kind of the game changer as you move into more of the agente stuff is because even if you take just the email marketing channel you suddenly go too many variables for the human brain to properly compute you know you've got you've got time of day location of customer device you know all that myriad information that could take your results here there are everywhere for like your black Friday campaign or your you know new product
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[SPEAKER_00]: that it quickly becomes something you can't efficiently analyse as a human anyway, so it's hugely impactful that side of it.
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[SPEAKER_02]: There is another danger, of course, that the analysis can become so easy and so quick.
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[SPEAKER_02]: You spend all your time analysing things rather than correcting what you need to do from the analysis.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's always that problem of, well, that they're called analysis paralysis, and now the analysis is so fast, you've got a chance of more paralysis, so you've
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[SPEAKER_02]: But it is definitely a different problem because how many times can we also have a data problem.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I've got so much infrastructure data.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what to do with it.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And now we have a tool at our fingertips that can actually give you a good idea of what that would be.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's almost like you have these levels of, I'm asking chat to you be T for some copy.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And then you go up to the, the agetic playground, I suppose, where you're going, oh, this is interesting.
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[SPEAKER_00]: This is interesting.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I can do that, but nothing's strategic and nothing's not as much as being implemented.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you're getting distracted by the analysis.
10:55.831 --> 10:59.172
[SPEAKER_00]: You distracted by creating things, but not actually going hold on a minute.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I could do these 20 things, but what should I actually do next?
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I guess the next question for you is, so we know we've probably got to embrace agentic marketing.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's where everything's heading.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It makes sense for the business.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But what should our goals be with it?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Are we looking to do more?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Are we looking to connect with our customers better?
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[SPEAKER_00]: We're looking to time save?
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[SPEAKER_00]: What's the aim of it?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Because I always think like having that goal that aim helps you make sense of it and actually become strategic if you realise why you're
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's a good question.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I probably answer that question almost for my positions to see what I want my employees calls to be.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, it comes down to, we're in the business of making money on me.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Everybody's trying to sell more stuff.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And as a result, I think that if it can take you further down that path as
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[SPEAKER_02]: then making more money it has to be used.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Now where I would publish CD opportunity for AI for a lot of them e-commerce businesses.
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[SPEAKER_02]: is again, for my experience speaking to marketers at events in sales processes in customer reviews, there's always been an element of, if I've said, who's thinks they've got their marketing strategy perfect, right?
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's a very, very difficult question to answer that, and progress can be quite perfectionist, can be suffocating, but progress can be quite alarming.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that with AI, making it faster and easier to deliver things, the revenue opportunity, I think the companies using AI, is instead of having a marketing strategy to another than a 20% implemented because you were not skills, it were not time, we were not technology.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Now,
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[SPEAKER_02]: realistically you should be able to get to 7580% of your marketing plan done because we've removed the barriers at time of data and of course this then takes you down to the aggregation of small games that you know there's very not really in our big low-hanging fruit because the e-commerce industry is relatively mature and people are aware of the tactics so therefore the game comes from implementing more of your nudge factors I think to drive your revenue
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[SPEAKER_02]: And that now can be done the barrier to that is reduced because of the time and ease of the AI, and the gender care I'm particular.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So that's where I think the opportunity exists.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's a bit like, and I know you live through this step change in email marketing same as I did when it was like to create an abandoned cart campaign went from being a three-page brief to your developers who would then do it and you chart test it and you do it and you test it and you do it and then you will breathe a sigh of relief when you put it live and it actually worked to a click and drop system.
13:51.467 --> 14:13.161
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was like once that happened it was like if you didn't have a band in cart you were massively missing out but now it's if you don't have your band in cart and you've analyzed it and you've used the AI to build out the different flows and you're keeping that update every month because there's no excuse not to anymore because you've got the AI support to analyze and to build that's where we're shifting to in a microcosm.
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[SPEAKER_02]: absolutely yeah yeah and then of course you know if you're abandoning car gets done in four hours rather than four days you've also got three and a half hours to look at something else so therefore that's the completeness of your marketing strategy which I think will be we'll be coming around and that ties into what you know the rising customer expectations you know so did the window I think actually if I'm being totally on its where
14:35.057 --> 14:39.259
[SPEAKER_02]: that the speed games from the AI can deliver an advantage to the marketer.
14:39.579 --> 14:46.901
[SPEAKER_02]: But more than five years, when everyone's got a Gen2KI and everyone's completed their marketing strategy, it would be like going back to your abandoned carts.
14:46.981 --> 14:52.403
[SPEAKER_02]: And now we have five years to go, 10 years ago, it did give an advantage to them, but now it doesn't because the playing feels leveled out.
14:53.104 --> 14:56.565
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's why it is a case of like, this is the time to make that move.
14:57.332 --> 15:03.075
[SPEAKER_00]: And so what are the key things we need to get right to make this work within our organization?
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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we've greatly touched on data earlier, but what are the things you're seeing?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Because I'm sure, you know, you're seeing some of your clients absolutely fly with this.
15:13.839 --> 15:17.241
[SPEAKER_00]: And others really struggle to get beyond, give me a subject line.
15:17.961 --> 15:21.843
[SPEAKER_00]: What is it that separates those who are really doing well with the deployment from those who aren't.
15:22.762 --> 15:25.163
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we can see all the data how it's being used.
15:25.183 --> 15:32.087
[SPEAKER_02]: This is the wonderful thing, you know, we can see all the prompts that have been done and we've feed that back into our product gets better.
15:32.847 --> 15:42.632
[SPEAKER_02]: It's probably though, not really a technical answer there, so I think it's really sips around the mindset of the users, you know, because if,
15:44.313 --> 15:48.815
[SPEAKER_02]: This is take AI because it can sound scary, especially with the dim on-grip which is going on.
15:48.935 --> 15:52.656
[SPEAKER_02]: If you just want that, is that as a latest bit of technology we need to use.
15:53.196 --> 15:56.757
[SPEAKER_02]: There are always people to get on that first of all, and there's some people that take longer.
15:57.357 --> 16:00.799
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think the reality is, just try it, right?
16:00.919 --> 16:04.720
[SPEAKER_02]: And anybody that hooks up claw to Excel will never want to use Excel again.
16:05.260 --> 16:19.049
[SPEAKER_02]: And it will just use AI or maybe an MCP version that software vendor and cross reference to each other's data will never want to not do that again, but how you make that first step is really a really difficult part.
16:19.589 --> 16:23.732
[SPEAKER_02]: So we can say how many I've been in the more marked in business software.
16:25.506 --> 16:35.432
[SPEAKER_02]: New 20 years, but there's always been that same thing about we just got to try and get to try something new and there's people that do and there's people that don't.
16:36.012 --> 16:44.617
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think the people that will stand up and people that approach the challenge with the right mindset to do the technology, you don't even need to send anything out, but just try it.
16:45.017 --> 16:46.598
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, and then you'll never go back.
16:47.039 --> 16:56.065
[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't mean, you know, it is like the subject line of course, but it's like it's the extra parts when you start putting a few things together and link them together gets really, really powerful.
16:56.586 --> 17:04.132
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, obviously you need some technology which has got some decent AI in there, but I think you need a mindset which is naturally inquisitive.
17:04.972 --> 17:08.094
[SPEAKER_02]: and it doesn't demand to get a few things one.
17:09.115 --> 17:24.106
[SPEAKER_02]: You've probably got to build a business case maybe to your bosses or maybe to or the other way down to convince your people below that the AI is not going to take their job right because that's the way you're people on some people, my answer to that is quite simple.
17:24.246 --> 17:29.270
[SPEAKER_02]: AI is not going to take your job, but one of your competitors using the AI may take your job.
17:30.081 --> 17:33.743
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it's also, you know, it took about the top down bit.
17:33.823 --> 17:46.068
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's the, it's important for the people at the top of the business to create an environment and a culture where it's acceptable for the team to play with AI, take the time to learn how it actually works.
17:46.688 --> 17:50.210
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like we've had a few businesses on the show talking about how they're implementing it.
17:50.250 --> 17:59.338
[SPEAKER_00]: and almost always the idea of an AI champion in each team comes up and cross business working groups to share how they're learning and how they're using.
17:59.619 --> 18:03.803
[SPEAKER_00]: It does seem to be a, it needs that push from a breath to go.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You're allowed to try this out.
18:06.005 --> 18:07.606
[SPEAKER_00]: You're allowed to fail with this.
18:07.646 --> 18:11.269
[SPEAKER_00]: You're allowed to actually do it and create that scenario where it's all right to be an
18:13.355 --> 18:14.596
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, I agree.
18:15.016 --> 18:22.842
[SPEAKER_02]: And certainly the peer sessions where somebody that's known and trusted can demonstrate some of the games is the way.
18:22.882 --> 18:31.388
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, right at the start of this, I remember this, or are there any, can we get some need to come in and teach as AI, if I don't know, that's not how this works, you know?
18:31.548 --> 18:34.550
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not, you've just got to get your hands dirty.
18:34.810 --> 18:37.352
[SPEAKER_02]: And we have, we really lean into this.
18:37.372 --> 18:38.293
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we did re-brand,
18:38.853 --> 18:40.956
[SPEAKER_02]: a few months ago when we actually put AI in our name.
18:41.336 --> 18:48.205
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's not just because of the capabilities and the platform, but also we've reworked a lot of our process internally for the new AI world.
18:48.586 --> 18:53.292
[SPEAKER_02]: So like the data reporting, for example, the way that we might build our prospect lists.
18:54.273 --> 19:02.242
[SPEAKER_02]: the way that we build our pitch decks and our demos, all of that now is it's called from some data points and then it's actually built and delivered by AI.
19:02.482 --> 19:14.414
[SPEAKER_02]: The delivers in the person but all the background supporting information, what would take hours and date by person is now taking that to a 9% level using AI and it looks incredible actually.
19:14.454 --> 19:16.957
[SPEAKER_02]: Not only does it look good in better need to do the speed of it.
19:17.617 --> 19:27.906
[SPEAKER_02]: It is off the hook and what we've ended up doing was on our monthly all hands, but to have a regular session, 15 minutes right, here we go, person stand up, talk is what you've done in the last month.
19:28.486 --> 19:30.548
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, when people were off, that sounds good.
19:30.788 --> 19:41.257
[SPEAKER_02]: And he kind of started them wanting to experiment and get some savings, not everybody was confident enough to want to stand up and speak from at the company, of course.
19:46.788 --> 19:57.495
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think it's like, you know, you imagine someone gives you a spreadsheet for the first time because it's a really powerful tool here use it for something and you're like, it's a load of squares and I've no idea what I was supposed to be doing with it.
19:58.076 --> 20:08.483
[SPEAKER_00]: It's exactly the same with a prompt box and some Claude folders or you know, going on to, you know, you get the email from your supply again, we've added an AI agent to the back end go use it, you know, like.
20:09.117 --> 20:10.939
[SPEAKER_00]: what for though, you know?
20:11.819 --> 20:18.685
[SPEAKER_00]: And having those, those examples and someone on the team who you can go and grab a coffee with and go, so how did you actually do that?
20:18.705 --> 20:22.989
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I think I can do something similar over here can be, can be super bad for you.
20:23.069 --> 20:27.232
[SPEAKER_00]: I totally get me a comment from that's not about getting someone in to teach everyone for half a day.
20:27.252 --> 20:28.573
[SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no.
20:28.653 --> 20:29.254
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly, it's not.
20:29.494 --> 20:32.517
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, like all of these things, it comes with some risks, risks doesn't it?
20:32.537 --> 20:34.138
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think I'm at a post
20:36.903 --> 21:06.550
[SPEAKER_02]: Now we haven't got to be much more stringent we would be interviews because everybody now comes in with a bit of a bluff and then the bluff looks quite solid by AI and and the moment we get a snippet is actually been to AI you've kind of got a bit of off it's a bit of a problem and so there's there are some challenges with that because he makes everybody an expert so what you really looking for now is is not just the cream we're looking for the very top of the cream you know because that's AI and and they would everybody to be better.
21:07.470 --> 21:23.101
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay Phil, so we've talked a kind of about whole pile of things there, but I particularly liked, you know, you're saying about how the opportunity now is you pushed the 75% point on your strategy, whereas previously that you'd only got to the 20% or you pushed.
21:24.902 --> 21:35.150
[SPEAKER_00]: to the next level with what you're doing and that's where we will win is not just by doing what was the tick box activity of a couple of years ago but by pushing beyond that optimizing beyond that and so on.
21:36.071 --> 21:47.520
[SPEAKER_00]: Is there anything for those who are, you know, approaching the 75% what are you seeing them doing that's enabling them to kind of really be leading the field at the
21:53.708 --> 22:02.451
[SPEAKER_02]: different data sources, different platforms, and then getting the AI to putting it to work to find trends and analyze that.
22:02.511 --> 22:06.393
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's interesting actually as recently the headless has come back to the conversation, hasn't it?
22:07.422 --> 22:24.949
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's where that comes from, because if you can get your customer data, your loyalty data may be even your website behavior data, or call handling your call listening software, or even if it's traditional, it comes business, you know, tool receipts and store data.
22:25.569 --> 22:30.971
[SPEAKER_02]: Suddenly, you can put those together and get some insight, which is really, really useful and powerful.
22:31.451 --> 22:35.092
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think, in terms of the question, what do we see that most powerful people are doing
22:36.993 --> 22:41.275
[SPEAKER_02]: Then everything can have done it now, take next, go and watch next all the time.
22:41.835 --> 22:46.997
[SPEAKER_02]: And that naturally takes one, two, and combining multiple different data sets to get better analysis.
22:49.858 --> 22:54.621
[SPEAKER_01]: E-commerce Masterplan is supported by some of the greatest companies in the E-commerce sector.
22:54.761 --> 23:02.884
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's a reminder of who they are.
23:03.064 --> 23:04.885
[SPEAKER_01]: It's time for the top six round.
23:07.472 --> 23:13.119
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I love this section because it gives me and I'll list those some really quick ideas for taking our businesses to the next level.
23:13.179 --> 23:14.561
[SPEAKER_00]: Feel that you're ready for the top tips.
23:14.741 --> 23:15.702
[SPEAKER_02]: Go on then, hit me.
23:16.003 --> 23:17.485
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, the book top tip.
23:17.825 --> 23:22.791
[SPEAKER_00]: If everyone listening to this podcast agreed to take Friday off, read a book to make their business better.
23:23.232 --> 23:24.754
[SPEAKER_00]: Which book would you recommend?
23:25.751 --> 23:31.435
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, it probably a marketer's favorite, but Huawei's southern's ultimate is very strong.
23:31.956 --> 23:42.644
[SPEAKER_02]: It picks up on a few of the things I've talked about before, you know, there's not really new techniques, there's the opportunities exist within the gaps or the speed to deliver the technique.
23:43.364 --> 23:50.330
[SPEAKER_02]: and is psychoanalytical behavior that he always talks about where he tries to think of a bottom backwards.
23:50.691 --> 24:00.479
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just, it's a fascinating read, but I think it's particularly relevant for this because it's not the new, it's the gaps in between, I think, where the opportunities are.
24:00.880 --> 24:03.022
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's if that's the one I would recommend.
24:03.662 --> 24:06.203
[SPEAKER_02]: and it's also one of those books that you can read and laugh at.
24:06.243 --> 24:09.284
[SPEAKER_02]: You can read on your drinking a pinnacle out of on a sun lounger.
24:09.304 --> 24:11.004
[SPEAKER_02]: You don't need to read it in the office, right?
24:11.064 --> 24:11.764
[SPEAKER_02]: It's one of those ones.
24:12.225 --> 24:16.066
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the mindset bit, and this you have to excuse me, this is also of the time.
24:16.626 --> 24:21.147
[SPEAKER_02]: The book I've just recently finished is the Oasis One, which is a sound so very loud.
24:21.627 --> 24:23.328
[SPEAKER_02]: Now the reason I'm mentioning that is because
24:24.128 --> 24:26.529
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the mindset thing that I spoke about.
24:26.589 --> 24:28.150
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you may well just have to cut this out.
24:28.390 --> 24:32.573
[SPEAKER_02]: Chloe, but like I said, I've just subscribed to my tickets.
24:32.613 --> 24:34.014
[SPEAKER_02]: I saw them when they came last year.
24:34.434 --> 24:36.395
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm not trying to say that it'd be successful.
24:36.415 --> 24:40.637
[SPEAKER_02]: You need to be for Manchester or, you know, be a rock and roller.
24:41.098 --> 24:47.561
[SPEAKER_02]: But what I think's interesting about that is when they didn't have anything, they believed they could be the biggest rock band in the world.
24:47.681 --> 24:50.643
[SPEAKER_02]: And they nothing stopped and trying to become that.
24:51.283 --> 24:53.764
[SPEAKER_02]: So you ask the question about what do people need?
24:53.804 --> 24:57.946
[SPEAKER_02]: If like, leaving yourself, approach every problem with the positive mentality.
24:58.366 --> 25:01.508
[SPEAKER_02]: If you approach from the negative mentality, you will always fail.
25:02.068 --> 25:08.171
[SPEAKER_02]: So believing yourself, positive mindset, and I think, you know, that puts you on the right path.
25:08.231 --> 25:09.031
[SPEAKER_02]: So there are the two ones.
25:09.132 --> 25:12.093
[SPEAKER_02]: One is, I think, opportunity spotting ones mindset related.
25:12.445 --> 25:12.685
[SPEAKER_00]: Nice.
25:12.725 --> 25:13.546
[SPEAKER_00]: I like that pair.
25:14.246 --> 25:15.667
[SPEAKER_00]: I imagine everyone's going to pick the OAS.
25:15.687 --> 25:16.588
[SPEAKER_00]: It's one for Friday.
25:16.668 --> 25:17.088
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
25:17.108 --> 25:18.870
[SPEAKER_02]: Why not?
25:18.970 --> 25:19.590
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a good spot.
25:19.790 --> 25:21.091
[SPEAKER_00]: Do Rory's next Friday.
25:21.552 --> 25:23.293
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, the traffic top tip.
25:23.393 --> 25:27.636
[SPEAKER_00]: Which marketing method do you either prize above all others or think doesn't get the press.
25:27.776 --> 25:28.737
[SPEAKER_00]: It deserves.
25:29.978 --> 25:30.258
[SPEAKER_02]: Well.
25:31.582 --> 25:42.871
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm traffic top tape, I mean it's not new, but certainly, I think we're in a change in landscape traffic where AI drive traffic is obviously rising very high.
25:43.651 --> 25:48.074
[SPEAKER_02]: We can see on our own website, for example, the amount of traffic that is coming in from the,
25:49.355 --> 26:01.624
[SPEAKER_02]: the chat engines, the AI engines so it is increasing and of course it's normally coming in more qualified because it's not a lot of the lab you're lifting so it's not new but I think I think that's just a direction of travel.
26:02.184 --> 26:04.146
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to give you two answers Chloe.
26:04.346 --> 26:09.710
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay and this one head, this one next one probably goes back really to my design background.
26:10.250 --> 26:23.201
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, there's always been whether it's a way to, you need to have your social media or Google on a pando, I'll give it a update right, there's always a way where you think you're going to get ahead of it, it catches up ultimately.
26:23.721 --> 26:31.648
[SPEAKER_02]: And the thing which is generally the differentiator is really if people like your brand, if it looks good, people buy with their minds.
26:32.388 --> 26:36.391
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that you can spend an awful amount of money on all these, uh,
26:37.272 --> 26:39.554
[SPEAKER_02]: in hope on search engines and LinkedIn.
26:40.034 --> 26:44.018
[SPEAKER_02]: But then if they go to your website, look at your product, and it doesn't look good enough, they're going to bounce off.
26:44.238 --> 26:46.680
[SPEAKER_02]: People buy otherwise, it's got to look fantastic.
26:47.621 --> 26:50.123
[SPEAKER_02]: And it ties into that rising customer expectation.
26:50.163 --> 26:56.749
[SPEAKER_02]: So I, you know, that don't forget how AI will be changing your traffic sources.
26:57.069 --> 27:01.733
[SPEAKER_02]: But then when they do get a given something which looks good, which looks credible, which is a brand-making believe in.
27:02.366 --> 27:07.713
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it's going to be interesting to see how that changes web design.
27:07.833 --> 27:14.281
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, everyone's very focused on changing the web design in order to make sure they get found by the LLMs.
27:14.361 --> 27:18.767
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's going to be interesting to see how it changes what we put on the website if the traffic is more qualified.
27:18.867 --> 27:25.472
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think you will affect that as well, because in going back to this thing, the AI raises a bar, gets opening towards you nine, seven more quickly.
27:26.052 --> 27:29.115
[SPEAKER_02]: Roll it on five or six years, everyone's gonna have the most fantastic websites.
27:29.615 --> 27:31.697
[SPEAKER_02]: But then that means how do you stand out?
27:31.737 --> 27:37.281
[SPEAKER_02]: You've got to have a personality, you've got to have a brand voice, you've got to be bold enough to be different and look good and be credible.
27:38.021 --> 27:40.663
[SPEAKER_02]: So the brand is only just gonna come to the fore.
27:41.024 --> 27:46.007
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's very difficult for marketers, I know to say we're gonna spend X-Mount on brand because
27:46.948 --> 27:52.430
[SPEAKER_02]: You will have to push your boss or, you know, this campaign got as x-many leaps.
27:52.970 --> 27:59.793
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we know that's how the game works, but if your brand is working for you correctly, it acts as a halo on everything that does before.
28:00.433 --> 28:05.795
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, some businesses are very fortunate to have a single channel which works and then you can see the acquisition.
28:06.615 --> 28:18.020
[SPEAKER_02]: But a lot of businesses work in the much more complicated sales cycle, where it's multi-touch, multi-eptribution, multi-bayer, multi-time frame, and those parts, it's the brand which links them all together.
28:18.698 --> 28:19.338
[SPEAKER_00]: are so true.
28:20.159 --> 28:23.421
[SPEAKER_00]: I could ask you about 25 up questions on that, but this is the top tip round.
28:23.781 --> 28:26.903
[SPEAKER_00]: And the audience know it's supposed to be relatively quick, so okay, on.
28:26.923 --> 28:29.145
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll see you next.
28:29.365 --> 28:33.148
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, don't have to get one word next, but it does mean I'm not allowed to ask 20 follow-ups.
28:33.448 --> 28:42.454
[SPEAKER_00]: A tall top tip, maybe a collaboration tool, a social media plugin, a phone-up, or just a way of working, is there a call little tool you use that makes you and your team
28:44.463 --> 28:50.728
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, obviously lovable is great for people that want to try and do a prototype to something.
28:50.748 --> 29:00.596
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, lovable say it's production ready, but I would be mindful of that, I think it's much better as a prototype until before you pass on to the experts, but they may well disagree.
29:01.376 --> 29:07.301
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the Figma make the vibe coding version of Figma is actually really quite good as well.
29:08.002 --> 29:09.102
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, it's very good for
29:10.123 --> 29:13.805
[SPEAKER_02]: If you, if somebody is a designer, go to know the tools, it's quite good for that.
29:13.845 --> 29:19.147
[SPEAKER_02]: You've still got to know the design and the example, if you, this might be a bit the longer one.
29:19.167 --> 29:21.367
[SPEAKER_02]: So is that you can do amazing things in PowerPoint.
29:21.928 --> 29:26.229
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're a designer, but if you don't, you still can't do a good PowerPoint design.
29:26.249 --> 29:27.950
[SPEAKER_02]: If you, you know, I haven't got a design mindset.
29:27.970 --> 29:28.510
[SPEAKER_02]: It's still can't.
29:28.530 --> 29:29.991
[SPEAKER_02]: You speak my makes at the mindset.
29:30.591 --> 29:32.072
[SPEAKER_02]: And the knowledge is still important.
29:32.632 --> 29:37.714
[SPEAKER_02]: The one which I think everybody, I use all the time, which is available to everybody, is, is whispered flow.
29:38.334 --> 29:43.757
[SPEAKER_02]: which is the one I use and that is absolutely transformed probably how I work in the last six months.
29:43.797 --> 29:56.123
[SPEAKER_02]: And now I hardly type at all, you know, I just speaking to it, it takes out all the pauses, hesitations, reframe things so that the structure of the sentences and more logical and it's so much quicker.
29:56.663 --> 29:58.384
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a no takeover meetings now.
29:58.504 --> 30:00.625
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's one I would absolutely use.
30:00.665 --> 30:05.007
[SPEAKER_02]: I think once once you do that, the keyboard's almost gone.
30:05.426 --> 30:06.707
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
30:07.087 --> 30:07.968
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
30:08.348 --> 30:10.189
[SPEAKER_00]: Me, no, I can't, I tried.
30:10.609 --> 30:11.189
[SPEAKER_00]: I failed.
30:11.870 --> 30:13.691
[SPEAKER_00]: I cannot bring myself to talk.
30:14.451 --> 30:16.313
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just as ridiculous for a podcast there.
30:16.333 --> 30:17.033
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a podcast there.
30:17.373 --> 30:20.555
[SPEAKER_00]: But I really struggle to talk my thoughts in that way.
30:20.635 --> 30:22.296
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm very addicted to my keyboard.
30:22.876 --> 30:25.238
[SPEAKER_00]: I know I'm an unusual person in that respect.
30:25.794 --> 30:25.994
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
30:26.174 --> 30:28.775
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, don't remember one when I said it moves keep on it doesn't.
30:29.555 --> 30:32.656
[SPEAKER_02]: I will put it into this before and then probably edit it and then send it.
30:32.776 --> 30:37.137
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's a final edit rather than active creation is still published.
30:37.177 --> 30:39.398
[SPEAKER_02]: It makes me three times more efficient on those things.
30:39.638 --> 30:41.339
[SPEAKER_00]: I will probably try it again next year.
30:41.679 --> 30:42.339
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
30:42.719 --> 30:46.340
[SPEAKER_00]: Because because I everyone tells me it's a so clearly I was doing something wrong.
30:47.320 --> 30:52.362
[SPEAKER_00]: The carbon top tip, what's your favorite way to reduce the carbon footprint of an e-commerce store?
30:53.128 --> 30:57.550
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a tricky one because it's not really my realm of specialists and my afraid.
30:58.130 --> 31:04.052
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'd be very confident to say risk-provover change in life, but I don't think I can necessarily say something which would say the planet.
31:04.752 --> 31:12.635
[SPEAKER_02]: The only thing which probably makes sense in our interview courses is choosing providers that are part of the warbling trust and carbon neutral.
31:13.015 --> 31:18.317
[SPEAKER_02]: So therefore marketers, e-commerce marketers can ensure they're not
31:20.145 --> 31:28.408
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, especially in e-commerce, it's very easy to ignore your digital footprint because your physical footprint is so large and so loud.
31:28.748 --> 31:37.211
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, the digital side of it is always worth doing at least an audit once a year on and seeing what you're storing and what you're using that could do better.
31:37.411 --> 31:39.392
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a perfectly good carbon top tip.
31:39.612 --> 31:40.032
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
31:40.492 --> 31:41.833
[SPEAKER_00]: We're very pleased to have that one.
31:42.253 --> 31:42.733
[SPEAKER_00]: I hope so.
31:43.293 --> 31:54.796
[SPEAKER_00]: Before we say goodbye, please let the audience know where they can find you, Manago AI, if they're interested in fully embracing this opportunity that a Gentic marketing is going to give them.
31:55.296 --> 31:56.257
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, absolutely.
31:56.277 --> 32:02.958
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, happy to have people returning me on LinkedIn, Phil Drake, born LinkedIn as the title on the bottom of this says.
32:03.959 --> 32:05.659
[SPEAKER_02]: And then, fortunately more about Manago AI,
32:12.501 --> 32:22.610
[SPEAKER_02]: And we can find out more about the product we do, customer engagement platform, very heavy e-commerce features, specialisms, these free trials on there as well, so people can see it and with their own eyes.
32:23.151 --> 32:30.397
[SPEAKER_02]: As anything, there's a whole load of features, the best way to get the values followed by a demo, but the best place to start all of those in queries is the website.
32:30.827 --> 32:31.047
[SPEAKER_00]: awesome.
32:31.107 --> 32:39.097
[SPEAKER_00]: And wherever you're listening to this, uh, everybody you will find a link to the Menaga AI website somewhere very close to where you are right now.
32:39.617 --> 32:42.340
[SPEAKER_00]: Phil, thank you so much for coming on the show.
32:42.360 --> 32:45.464
[SPEAKER_00]: It's been lovely to catch up and to talk about such an interesting topic with you.
32:45.484 --> 32:46.405
[SPEAKER_00]: So thank you for being here.
32:47.026 --> 32:47.566
[SPEAKER_02]: My pleasure.
32:47.626 --> 32:49.308
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you very much for having you on your podcast.
32:49.348 --> 32:49.869
[SPEAKER_02]: We'd enjoyed it.
32:55.590 --> 33:01.318
[SPEAKER_00]: So obviously, a real trait for me to get to catch up with Phil, but I suspect you all got quite a lot out of that session as well.
33:01.898 --> 33:07.766
[SPEAKER_00]: What I find really interesting is that yet again, in marketing, yet again in e-commerce.
33:08.867 --> 33:31.977
[SPEAKER_00]: the tools are becoming a level playing field for all of us and the ones who are actually going to get the results from all of this are those who have the mindset to get going with it because at the moment there is still some level of first mover advantage and then those who have the strategic and the marketing now to understand how to get the best out of those tools and to make the right decisions and to work on the right areas.
33:32.398 --> 33:35.119
[SPEAKER_00]: So super, super fascinating to hear all that from Phil because
33:38.220 --> 33:41.825
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a huge percentage of their user base that are already using the agentex.
33:41.865 --> 33:45.030
[SPEAKER_00]: They have the data to see in the case that is to see how people are using this.
33:45.811 --> 33:53.742
[SPEAKER_00]: Which I guess in some ways makes it seem a bit more straightforward to get started because it is just about having a go and getting your mindset and thinking like a good marketer.
33:54.369 --> 34:02.451
[SPEAKER_00]: You can get your hands on our notes from this episode, including those top tips and links to what we chatted about by heading over to ecommercemasterplanned.com.
34:03.012 --> 34:09.153
[SPEAKER_00]: Use ECMP.info forward slash six one seven to head straight to the correct page on the website.
34:09.713 --> 34:12.374
[SPEAKER_00]: And when you get there, you can add yourself to our email list.
34:13.074 --> 34:16.996
[SPEAKER_00]: If you liked this episode, then make sure you tune in again next week.
34:17.056 --> 34:20.957
[SPEAKER_00]: I know, normally I give you a past episode to look at this time I'm giving you a new one.
34:21.897 --> 34:30.584
[SPEAKER_00]: Next week, we've got Raymond from Car Well back on the show again, to give us an update on all the big AI and tech projects they're working on.
34:30.604 --> 34:41.153
[SPEAKER_00]: I know a lot of you enjoyed that episode earlier, I think earlier this year, where he talks about where he was, but he will be talking about how they are delivering that mindset piece across the business.
34:41.393 --> 34:44.156
[SPEAKER_00]: So definitely a good one to follow on from this.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But if you're listening to this one the first week, guys, I have you can have to wait a little bit.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So, so listen to that.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm thank you for tuning in to this and every episode that you do of the e-commerce master plan podcast.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I bring you a new one every week because I want to inspire and help you to succeed and thrive with your business, including encouraging both you and your customers to make more sustainable buying decisions.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So if you know someone they show can help, please tell them to listen to the e-commerce master plan podcast.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I hope you have a great week and do not forget to keep optimizing.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for listening to the e-commerce Master Plan podcast.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Find out more at e-commercemasterplanned.com Slash Podcast.
