Ep 43 -- Lighting the Way Forward — eVDSDs, Safety, and California’s Pyro technique Marine Flare Disposal Challenge

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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: Hello, and welcome to Dockside, the podcast that helps you save and enjoy the waters you love by sharing clean and safe boating practices. I'm your host, Sarah Kennedy.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: Today, we're diving into a big shift happening in the world of marine safety, the move away from traditional pyrotechnic flares to electronic visual distress signal devices by the U.S. Coast Guard, who is leading this transition internally.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: Listeners will learn what's driving the Coast Guard's internal shift, how electronic device… distress devices compare in real-world rescues, and why expired flares pose growing environmental and public safety risks, especially in states like California.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: The episode also highlights new statewide data from FLAR collection events, the challenges counties face in managing this hazardous waste, and how boaters can prepare for the future of distress signaling.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: To help us unpack all of this, we have a great group today, and we're joined by Doug Leavell, Recreational Boating Program Specialist from the U.S. Coast Guard Southwest.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: Vivian Matuk, California State Parks and the California Coastal Commission Environmental Boating Program Manager.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: Virginia McCormick, Senior Associate with the California Product Stewardship Council.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: Bruce Brettz?
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: Chief of the Alameda County Health House Household Hazardous Waste Division, and Kathy Rico, Senior Planner with Marin County Household Hazardous Waste.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: Welcome, and thank you all for joining us.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: Let's start from a bird's eye perspective. Let's start with you, Vivian. Say hello, welcome.
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Vivian Matuk (She/Her), CA State Parks & CA Coastal Commission: Hi, Sara, and hi to all of our audience with Dockside. It's great to be back again, not only as a speaker, but also as one of the organizers and editors of these podcasts that we have for all of you today, so let's get started!
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: Yes, so Vivian, what are marine flares?
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Vivian Matuk (She/Her), CA State Parks & CA Coastal Commission: So, marine flares are basically bright, attention-grabbing emergency signals. They are pyrotechnic devices that produce either a really intense light or colorful smoke, so rescuers can quickly spot a boater in distress.
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Vivian Matuk (She/Her), CA State Parks & CA Coastal Commission: There are two main kinds. One is the handheld flare, which you hold and operate on the boat.
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Vivian Matuk (She/Her), CA State Parks & CA Coastal Commission: and rocket or aerial flares, which shoot up into the sky. Both types can be used during the day or at night, which makes them really versatile in emergencies.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: And what type of boats need to carry marine flares on board?
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Vivian Matuk (She/Her), CA State Parks & CA Coastal Commission: Great, so the Coast Guard keeps it pretty straightforward. If your boat is over 16 feet, and you're out on coastal waters, the Great Lakes, or waterways connected to them, you are required to carry Coast Guard-approved visual distress signals, and that includes pyrotechnic flares, for example.
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Vivian Matuk (She/Her), CA State Parks & CA Coastal Commission: Now, there are a few exceptions. Smaller recreational boats under 16 feet, open-cell boats under 26 feet without engines, and boats that are manually powered don't need flares during the day. If they are out after sunset, though, they need to carry nighttime signals.
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Vivian Matuk (She/Her), CA State Parks & CA Coastal Commission: The other big thing to remember is that your flares need to be valid, no expired ones, and easy to get to. The Coast Guard looks for flares approved for both day and nighttime use, or a combination of 3-day and 3-night signals.
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Vivian Matuk (She/Her), CA State Parks & CA Coastal Commission: For example, the red flares can be used anytime, and the orange ones are for daytime only.
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Vivian Matuk (She/Her), CA State Parks & CA Coastal Commission: It is important for all of us to remember and consider that marine flares usually last about 36 to 42 months, and if you are caught with expired or inaccessible flares, you could face a fine of up to $1,100, and yes, the Coast Guard does random inspections.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: What is the problem with expired pyrotechnic marine flares?
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Vivian Matuk (She/Her), CA State Parks & CA Coastal Commission: Expired flares are surprisingly complicated. Once they cannot be used for their intended purpose, both the Environmental Protection Agency and the California Department of Toxic Substances Control consider them hazardous waste because they are toxic, reactive, and initiiable.
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Vivian Matuk (She/Her), CA State Parks & CA Coastal Commission: They contain chemicals like very complicated names. For example, strontium nitrate, potassium nitrate, magnesium, and even black powder, and things that you don't want in your trash, in landfills, or anywhere near waterways, due to its impact to the environment and health.
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Vivian Matuk (She/Her), CA State Parks & CA Coastal Commission: On top of that, disposal is incredibly expensive.
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Vivian Matuk (She/Her), CA State Parks & CA Coastal Commission: Part of the problem is infrastructure. So, for example, here in California, we don't have any permitted facilities that can treat or dispose of non-military explosive waste, and nationwide, there are only 3 facilities that take them.
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Vivian Matuk (She/Her), CA State Parks & CA Coastal Commission: One flare can cost anywhere between $10,000 to $300, or over $300 to dispose of properly, and a single county collection event can range between, $10,000 to approximately $40,000.
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Vivian Matuk (She/Her), CA State Parks & CA Coastal Commission: We became aware of this disposal issue here in California over 10 years ago, when
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Vivian Matuk (She/Her), CA State Parks & CA Coastal Commission: The California, at the time, Department of Boating and Waterways and the Coastal Commission, now the department being part of parks.
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Vivian Matuk (She/Her), CA State Parks & CA Coastal Commission: began conducting research on the topic, and as a result, we formed a group with the Department of Toxic Substances Control, the Environmental Protection Agency, CalRecycle, the Coast Guard, and several counties to try to identify a solution to the disposal problem in our state.
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Vivian Matuk (She/Her), CA State Parks & CA Coastal Commission: Which, by the way, is not only a California issue, but a nationwide.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: And what are some of the best recommended practices for the disposal of expired marine pyrotechnic flares?
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Vivian Matuk (She/Her), CA State Parks & CA Coastal Commission: So, thanks to the years of work in the working group that I just mentioned with all the agencies in CalRecycle and local counties, Coast Guard, etc.
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Vivian Matuk (She/Her), CA State Parks & CA Coastal Commission: California now has some resources. So, for example, CalRecycle fortunately created grants, so local jurisdictions can host temporary flare collection events for recreational boaters.
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Vivian Matuk (She/Her), CA State Parks & CA Coastal Commission: We have been working with many jurisdictions across the state. Some of them are invited to the podcast today, and of course, the California Product Stewardship Council.
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Vivian Matuk (She/Her), CA State Parks & CA Coastal Commission: And since, around 2015, 2019, these events have been offering great resources and services for the boaters. We have had over 5 annual events since 2019, over 16,000 participants, over, almost 29,000 flares collected. And just last year, we have 10 municipalities
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Vivian Matuk (She/Her), CA State Parks & CA Coastal Commission: Across the state participating in these collection events.
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Vivian Matuk (She/Her), CA State Parks & CA Coastal Commission: If you have expired flares.
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Vivian Matuk (She/Her), CA State Parks & CA Coastal Commission: The safest move is to contact the DTSC, Department of Toxic Substances Control, or your county, just to get some directions. Again, it's very difficult, unfortunately, the disposal, and all this information will be included in the notes of our podcast.
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Vivian Matuk (She/Her), CA State Parks & CA Coastal Commission: That's pretty much it.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: And what are the alternatives to pyrotechtic marine flares?
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Vivian Matuk (She/Her), CA State Parks & CA Coastal Commission: So, first of all, let's get educated about the topic, right? Like, never put flares in the regular trash, or dispose of them in waterways. That's illegal and dangerous.
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Vivian Matuk (She/Her), CA State Parks & CA Coastal Commission: Also, don't fire expire flares during fireworks celebration, or just to get rid of them.
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Vivian Matuk (She/Her), CA State Parks & CA Coastal Commission: A non-emergency flare launch is considered a false distress signal, and it's a federal crime. Penalties can include up to 6 years in prison, and fines up to $250,000, plus reimbursement for all Coast Guard response costs.
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Vivian Matuk (She/Her), CA State Parks & CA Coastal Commission: Let's encourage our counties to conduct a collection event for recreational boaters. Again, CalRecycle has those grants, so let's take advantage of that.
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Vivian Matuk (She/Her), CA State Parks & CA Coastal Commission: We will learn more about them, later on. Stay informed about legal methods for disposal of hazardous waste, and tell other recreational boaters when safe marine flare disposal becomes available.
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Vivian Matuk (She/Her), CA State Parks & CA Coastal Commission: Also, consider purchasing electronic visual distress signals that the Coast Guard approved as alternatives. These devices don't expire, they are reusable.
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Vivian Matuk (She/Her), CA State Parks & CA Coastal Commission: They don't contain hazardous chemicals. They are really easy to operate, say, for families, visible more than 10 nautical miles, buoyant, and powered by simple alkaline batteries you can find almost anywhere.
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Vivian Matuk (She/Her), CA State Parks & CA Coastal Commission: Plus, because you only buy them once, they are cheaper long-term, and avoid all the disposal issues.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: Thank you so much, Vivian. Virginia?
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: Welcome to the show, say thank… hello?
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Virginia McCormick (CPSC): Hi, Sarah, thanks very much for having me.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: Thank you,
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: Considering all the work the state has been conducting for several years to solve this problem, which is also a national problem, how did your organization start working on this important topic?
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Virginia McCormick (CPSC): Yeah, so a little bit of background first for California Product Stewardship Council. We primarily work to move California towards a circular economy, where products and materials are kept in use for as long as possible.
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Virginia McCormick (CPSC): And also to encourage producers of those products to be responsible, or more responsible, for their products end of life.
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Virginia McCormick (CPSC): So CPSC, we started working on this topic, with a pilot project, with Huntington Beach, to collect marine flares from their boating community.
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Virginia McCormick (CPSC): And that pilot project really worked well with CPSC and our focus, because the collection event not only helped us to obviously prevent
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Virginia McCormick (CPSC): Environmental harm, and improved the material management for a hazardous material, but it also…
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Virginia McCormick (CPSC): really gave us the chance to educate that public, on marine flare disposal, some of the issues that Vivian just talked about, and also to, promote, like, a safer alternative, those being the electronic, battery-operated flares.
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Virginia McCormick (CPSC): So that first pilot project, that was a really big success, and it really kicked off a wider campaign focus for CPSC, which has just expanded from there.
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Virginia McCormick (CPSC): That project was funded through a state grant through CalRecycle, and those state grants, their whole focus is to reduce hazardous waste in general.
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Virginia McCormick (CPSC): As well as to, again, promote the proper disposal of hazardous waste, just because the state of California really finds value in making sure to promote these kind of more environmentally friendly and safer disposal,
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Virginia McCormick (CPSC): options.
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Virginia McCormick (CPSC): So since then, we've actually helped many jurisdictions across the state of California, from all the way north in Del Norte County, down south to, City of Chula Vista, and everyone in between, to apply for those grants. So we help them apply, and then we help, actually facilitate those grants.
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Virginia McCormick (CPSC): To focus on these marine flare collection and education events. So yeah, really, really great program, and we're very happy to, be helping these jurisdictions and these other entities, do these collection events.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: California has been working on trying to solve the expired marine flare disposal problem since 2011. Thanks to this work, now there is a grant offered by CalRecycle to local jurisdictions to plan and implement local collection events.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: Please share with us some of the participation and collection data from the collection events over the past 6 years, thanks to the partnership between your organization, the state, and other local jurisdictions.
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Virginia McCormick (CPSC): Yeah, so kind of what Vivian already touched upon a little bit, we've been involved with over a dozen jurisdictions and, organizations across the state to help support their Marine Flare Collection events.
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Virginia McCormick (CPSC): Just this past year, in 2025, we worked with 10 entities, which collected nearly 10,000 flares from their respective boating communities, and that's a cumulative number of all the different entities and all of their collections. So, one site might have collected more, the other one collects less, it really just depends on,
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Virginia McCormick (CPSC): the population, for the most part, of that boating community. But again, without last year's events, that would leave nearly 5,000 pounds of flare waste without proper disposal opportunities.
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Virginia McCormick (CPSC): Or education as a follow-up to a proper disposal about what they can do in the future for their… the next flares that they have on their boat still that are going to expire. And then, again, those reusable alternatives, like the electronic flares.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: Are California boaters showing more interest in switching to electronic distress devices as they learn about the disposal challenges and environmental impacts of pyrotechnic flares?
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Virginia McCormick (CPSC): Definitely. I'd say, so I personally have staffed multiple of these events, not only just collection events, but also education events and giveaway events, for the electronic flares. And the events really showcase that interest.
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Virginia McCormick (CPSC): They're a really great opportunity to meet people, provide education, handouts, about why collection is so important, and how they can very easily swap out those single-use flares over to an electronic alternative.
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Virginia McCormick (CPSC): And also, the state grants, through CalRecycle, many of those actually set aside, funds to purchase, the electronic flares outright to give away at those, events. So, it's really, like, hand-in-hand, with the collection and also the education in regards to the electronic distress, devices, so…
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Virginia McCormick (CPSC): They've been a huge hit, and we really only see that to continue now, especially with the Coast Guard decision.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: What challenges are counties still facing when it comes to offering flair take-back events, especially around cost, transportation, and disposal logistics?
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Virginia McCormick (CPSC): Yeah, cost has been a really major challenge to these events. The different entities, and that can range from counties to cities to port districts, they spend a huge amount of money to host these events, and
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Virginia McCormick (CPSC): Much of the increases that we've been seeing in the past few years comes down to increased labor and transportation costs. Obviously, as we know, just in our own lives, it's getting more expensive to fuel up, and that's, that doesn't change for transportation of,
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Virginia McCormick (CPSC): collection events. So, we unfortunately do expect those costs to keep rising,
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Virginia McCormick (CPSC): And while some jurisdictions are able to secure the state grant funds, those funds are both limited and based on a lottery system, so not every jurisdiction will receive funding, which does sometimes cause lapses in events.
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Virginia McCormick (CPSC): We're really finding, though, that jurisdictions and the organizations that we work with
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Virginia McCormick (CPSC): are still very interested and very willing to, put on these events. They find value in these events, despite their high price tag. So as long as there's interest in
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Virginia McCormick (CPSC): the entities, to put on these collection events, we're gonna work with them. We want to support them any way that we can, through grant funding, through self-funded events. Really, we just, understand that there's value in these events, so we want to support them going forward into the future.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: Thank you so much, Virginia. And now we'll welcome Doug. Welcome, say hello.
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Doug Leavell: Hi, Sara and the rest of the people here. Glad to be here.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: Thank you so much for joining us, and what prompted the U.S. Coast Guard to begin transitioning away from the pyrotechnic flares toward electronic visual distracting devices?
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Doug Leavell: So, the electronic visual distress signals, they offer significant advantages over pyrotechnic flares.
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Doug Leavell: This includes extended operational life, enhanced safety, eliminated the hazards associated with handling and deploying pyrotechnic flares, while reducing the risk of burns, misfires, and accidental ignition.
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Doug Leavell: I can tell you personally, in my career, I remember training with the handheld flares, and a teammate of mine actually was holding one, and it began… the phosphorus began…
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Doug Leavell: burning his hand. He started yelling, I said, throw it in the water. Luckily, we were near the water, but he ended up getting second-degree burns.
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Doug Leavell: So, at that point, I learned how painful it can be if one of those handheld flares goes bad. It is important to remember, this is an internal decision by the Coast Guard, and it's also important to remember that we have a comprehensive
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Doug Leavell: program for maintaining and inspecting all of our rescue and survival equipment. In fact, we actually assign, at every unit, there is somebody who is assigned to actually
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Doug Leavell: keep track of all of the expiration of different rescue and survival equipment, and also train everybody, make sure everybody's well trained in how to use it. So, the public does not have that, so there is that to consider, so…
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: And this isn't just an internal change. The U.S. Coast Guard has said it hopes to transition
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: This transition will encourage recreational boaters to consider electronic distress devices as well. Why is that leadership by example piece so important?
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Doug Leavell: Well, I think the Coast Guard has always been at the forefront of good environmental stewardship. This policy reflects that… those ideals.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: And, as you know, California has a huge boating community. What unique factors here make this transition especially relevant?
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Doug Leavell: Well, because of a large collection of boaters in this state, and in fact, it's, I believe the second or third largest boating community in the country, disposal of flares becomes problematic. Many boaters decide to dispose. I think this was, mentioned earlier, unwanted or expired flares in the trash.
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Doug Leavell: or in the waterways. The flares are Class D fire hazard, and some boaters try to fire them off like fireworks. This causes false alarm and distress calls. Personally, I've spent all night in my career looking for
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Doug Leavell: a distressed boater, and many times it turns out that it was somebody just firing off an expired flare. We treat every flare siding as an emergency, and so, we launch
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Doug Leavell: Sometimes we launch a helicopter, sometimes we launch a boat, sometimes both.
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Doug Leavell: And so it, it is, it is very expensive to the tax-paying public, and also, it, it's exhausting for personnel that have to look for them. So that, that is a problem that, hopefully, hopefully, the, the transition into these type, the, the electronic flares
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Doug Leavell: We'll help kind of alleviate.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: Let's talk about safety. Many boaters are used to the bright, dramatic burn of a flare. How do electronic distress devices compare in terms of visibility and effectiveness during real-world rescues?
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Doug Leavell: So there's no doubt that a burning flare is easier to see. Electronic distress signals also have a flash and SOS pattern that adds to the ability of other mariners to see it as a distress situation. Our rescue crews are also specially trained to spot these devices.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: Are there situations where pyrotechnic flares still offer advantages, or are electronic distress devices now considered the superior option across most scenarios?
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Doug Leavell: The brightness of pyrotechnic flares and the ability of an aerial flare to be seen at much greater distance still offers the best solution for distress signaling, especially when far out into the ocean, where there is much less boating traffic. So,
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Doug Leavell: you have to kind of balance the needs and where you operate, in my opinion. This is not an official stance, but, like, if I'm operating offshore 30, 40 miles, I know I'm going out there, I would make sure I have aerial flares for sure.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: We hear already that in California, expired flare disposal is a huge challenge from an environmental safety and disposal point of view. Later on, we'll be learning more about some of the past expired marine flare collection events that have taken place in Alameda and Marin counties.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: From the Coast Guard's perspective, how big of an environmental issue are expired flares?
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Doug Leavell: So, it's a huge concern, and we've leaned steadily on the creativity of state and local municipalities to address the problem.
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Doug Leavell: Unfortunately, there's no large-scale solution available at this time. Creativity, I've seen… I personally have actually collected
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Doug Leavell: about a thousand flares in one event, and… and contacted the Coast Guard, and this was several years ago, but it was a… it was a hit. I… I contacted the Coast Guard and said, I'm having a… a group of people, shoot off flares that have never shot off flares before, and so we had a flare launch event. That was actually here in the Bay Area, and… and people showed up.
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Doug Leavell: It was a huge success, and shot off flares that have never shot them off, so they kind of had an idea. But that was one way, but it… it was a… it was a… I mean…
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Doug Leavell: To do that all the time is just not… not something that,
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Doug Leavell: I think is something that can happen all the time, I guess. I do tell people that I wouldn't dispose of your expired flares right away. If you maintain them in a dry, a cool, dry place, you buy new flares.
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Doug Leavell: and hold onto your old ones. If you ever get into trouble, you can shoot the old ones first, the expired ones, and if they don't work, you always have the new ones.
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Doug Leavell: so you have more flares to operate. The Coast Guard only looks for the… that you have the proper amount of non-expired flares on board. They won't… they won't cite you for having flares that are expired, as long as you have the proper amount of non-expired flares.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: Last year in Monterey, California, a flare washed up on the beach and had to be detonated by the bomb squad, a huge cost for a single flare. Do incidents like this influence the Coast Guard's thinking?
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Doug Leavell: So, collectively, all incidents such as this factor in. However, I don't have any data on how common something like this is. This is maybe the first time I've ever heard of something like that, so, we don't really collect data on that.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: Does the Coast Guard anticipate that the shift to electronic distress devices will reduce the number of expired flares entering landfills or waterways?
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Doug Leavell: So, we're hopeful that all the costs associated with visual distress signals will ultimately go down for the voting public.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: Let's talk timelines. The U.S. Coast Guard's internal transition from traditional pyrotechnic flares toward electronic visual distress signaling devices begin in April 1st, 2026.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: With full implementation by June 1st, 2026. Are you seeing similar regulatory changes in other states or agencies?
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Doug Leavell: At this time, there's no plans to change any federal requirements for recreational boaters regarding visual distress signal requirements.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: How does this transition align with California's state-level boating safety and environmental goals?
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Doug Leavell: I believe California is very environmentally conscious, so my hope is that it would align quite well with their goals.
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Doug Leavell: However, this is only a change imposed on our Coast Guard boat crews, which adhere only to standards and requirements imposed by our organization.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: For a California boater listening today, what's the simplest way to understand what they must carry versus what is recommended?
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Doug Leavell: So, we used to hand out pamphlets, and in this modern day, that's kind of
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Doug Leavell: not the right way to go. So, we actually have a website, it's uscgboating.org. On that website, you can find a current listing of federal requirements for recreational boaters. That is updated
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Doug Leavell: as things change, federal statutes change all the time, and so this way, we provide QR codes for voters, and they're able to just
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Doug Leavell: put their phone on that QR code and get an up-to-date list of all federal requirements.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: What should boaters look for when choosing an electronic distress device? Are there specific approval labels or performance standards?
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Doug Leavell: So an acceptable electronic visual distress signal device must be marked that it meets Coast Guard requirements for night signal for boats.
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Doug Leavell: These signals flash an SOS signal and are different from other similar signals that only flash a recurring white light at a rate of 50 to 7 times a minute.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: How should boaters maintain their electronic distress devices? Battery replacement, testing, storage, etc?
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Doug Leavell: So these devices need to be readily accessible.
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Doug Leavell: Recommendation is to store it in a cool and dry place with limited or no exposure to elements.
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Doug Leavell: Battery replacement should be annual and as needed with periodic testing of device before getting underway on the water.
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Doug Leavell: Best to follow each device's manufacturer recommendations after purchase. They do include those with each device in the packaging.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: From a search and rescue standpoint, how do crews train to recognize electronic distress signals compared to pyrotechnics? Is the transition changing how search and rescue teams operate?
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Doug Leavell: Not really. Very little has changed on how rescue teams learn to spot these signals. Coast Guard crews remain ready to spot all forms of visual distress signals, as well as international distress signals.
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Doug Leavell: Electronic signals have always been an accepted distress signal, and so has an SOS, so these new devices only combine the two, and our boat crews continue to be trained just like they always have.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: Does the shift change the operational readiness of the Coast Guard?
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Doug Leavell: One moment.
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Doug Leavell: No, it hasn't changed anything. Again, we train, like, just like we always have, and… and, so nothing has changed.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: What misconceptions about flares or electronic distress devices do you encounter most often?
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Doug Leavell: So, when first-generation devices were initially approved, some were skeptical about the reliability and visibility.
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Doug Leavell: However, as they became more common, those concerns were generally proven wrong.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: Do you foresee a time when pyrotechnic flares are fully phased out for recreational boaters?
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Doug Leavell: I don't see this happening anytime soon. Change is difficult for most people. I think pyrotechnic flares will remain with us in some form or another into the foreseeable future.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: And what innovations in distress signaling are on the horizon?
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Doug Leavell: So, I wouldn't want to steal any of the VDS, or visual distress signal manufacturer's thunder. They're always researching better ways to meet the needs of the boating public.
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Doug Leavell: It's best to monitor their research and development departments and see what comes next.
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Doug Leavell: Understanding that anything that is proved has to meet strict testing requirements before earning the Coast Guard approval. A lot of times, I attend place, events such as International Boating Water and Safety Summit, and usually these manufacturers bring…
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Doug Leavell: new devices there to see what everybody thinks about them prior to their being approved, and just kind of see what the Coast Guard and the other boating public and manufacturers see what they think of them. So, they're always thinking of new things, but I wouldn't want to give their information out.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: Thank you so much for joining us, Doug.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: Now that we've heard how and why the U.S. Coast Guard is transitioning internally to electronic visual distress signaling devices, we want to bring the conversation back home to California.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: A state that's been working on the expired marine flare issue for more than a decade. Today, we're checking in on what's changed, what the latest data expired marine flare collection events
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: Data shows and talk about this issue at a county level.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: Welcome again, Kathy with Marin County and Bruce with Alameda County to our podcast. Kathy, will you say hello?
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Kathy: Hi, I'm Kathy Rico here with Marin County, happy to be here, thank you.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: Thank you, and Bruce?
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bfritz: Hi, good morning. Thank you, Sarah, and the rest of everybody on the podcast. Glad to be here.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: Thank you. Bruce, we'll start with you. Alameda County started offering free expired marine flare collection events in 2017. What triggered your county to begin flare collection efforts?
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bfritz: When the funding became available, that's when we got together to, set up events.
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bfritz: Back around, 2015, three, counties around the Bay Area got together to, to organize a pilot project to set up a set of collection events.
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bfritz: We applied for a grant, we got a joint grant, and
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bfritz: Working out all the details, however, took a couple of years, so we didn't actually end up holding an event until 2017.
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bfritz: And after… but, we learned a lot, and after the initial pilot project, we were able to pass that information along.
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bfritz: And we've seen the results. Now, over 10 different jurisdictions are holding an event a year.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: Were state or federal regulations a factor, or was this driven locally?
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bfritz: Well, regulations were certainly a factor. I would call them… I don't want to call them a barrier, but they were a challenge to learn, to understand, and to find ways to comply with it. Holding the events were definitely driven locally.
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bfritz: We wanted to provide an answer for local boaters, who we serve.
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bfritz: There's a huge boating community around the San Francisco Bay and Alameda County. We have 6… oh, well over 6,000 wet slips just within almost walking distance from our facilities here.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: What specific risks were you seeing that made this a priority?
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bfritz: We've all heard boaters' frustrations. Everybody on this call has been listening to the boating community, and up until, you know, 2015, there was a lot of frustration. When I was… began learning about the issue, I watched a lot of YouTubes, so the risks
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bfritz: I could see them on the screen. People are playing around with expired or old flares. An old flare can misfire, and watching that is actually really scary.
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bfritz: It's also pretty scary if a boater decided to rely on old flares that didn't work, or cause them harm, or harmed the boat when they tried to use a flare that was defective or misfired.
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bfritz: So, the risks, of course, include that people get frustrated and may try to find the wrong way of getting rid of things.
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bfritz: Causing an improper emergency response or, other problem. Of course, improper disposal would, would ultimately… could present a risk to trash workers, to trash trucks, to trash facilities, and ultimately lead to pollution.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: What hurdles did you face getting approval to have the first event?
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bfritz: if… well, I would say, if I had known that it would take as much work, I probably wouldn't have volunteered to try to do that.
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bfritz: getting together with the three other counties around the Bay Area was key. We all help each other get through all the challenges. The biggest one, I think, was finding a safe way to transport the kinds of flares that a boater might end up having.
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bfritz: A lot of boaters do keep their flares, and, you know, they get old, they get out of, they certainly aren't usable anymore.
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bfritz: we have seen flares that were made in World War II. They're very old, and finding a safe way that is allowed to transport an explosive device that's that old was a big challenge. We did, as part of the group Vivian had gotten together, we did talk to the Department of Transportation for the United States.
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bfritz: And they were very cooperative, and eventually helped us get a permit so that we could safely package pretty much any flare
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bfritz: that a boater might come in. And I think that was… that was a key challenge, and it was a key, you know, accomplishment of our pilot project.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: What did the first few years teach you? What mistakes, surprises, or breakthroughs shaped the program's evolution?
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bfritz: What I would say is that ever since 2017, these collection events have really run very smoothly. I wouldn't call that a surprise, but it's… it's pretty gratifying.
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bfritz: I'd say one surprise is that boaters are hard to get in touch with.
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bfritz: A boat might be berthed in here in a local marina, but the boater might live in another county or, you know, further away. And it's hard for a boater to make a long trip to get rid of their flares for a once-a-year event.
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bfritz: So… You know, we understand that now, and,
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bfritz: You know, we do keep holding events, so we can make it as convenient as possible.
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bfritz: getting the permit through the pilot project with the Department of Transportation, I think that was a big breakthrough, and again, it has helped with all the subsequent events, so that they can use that permit to safely transport the old, damaged.
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bfritz: And expired flares that they might receive.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: How have collection volumes changed? Are voters bringing in more flares now than in 2017, or has participation leveled off in your county?
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bfritz: The attendance at the events Alameda County has held has actually been pretty stable year after year.
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bfritz: It's fewer boaters than we initially expected, because we knew the problem was a big problem.
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bfritz: But I think it's just taking a while for boaters to put an annual event on their calendar and make the time to attend it.
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bfritz: And for these reasons, we've been holding events every year, and we'll try to continue to do that.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: How do you handle hazardous waste logistics? What does the behind-the-scenes process look like from drop-off to final disposal?
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bfritz: The logistics involved in collecting, packaging, transporting, and disposing of this kind of hazardous waste is really about close collaboration with the contractor that does all that work. Fortunately, all that has worked out very well.
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bfritz: It's been a learning process on both sides, both for an organization like Alameda County's Environmental Health Department, and also for the contractor.
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bfritz: But,
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bfritz: They are professionals, and they've done a great job over the years in safely transporting and disposing of the flares.
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bfritz: Like I said, there's a bit of a learning process along the way, but once that's done, you know, I think things have just gotten smoother and smoother.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: Who are your strongest partners? Which marinas, agencies, or organizations have been essential to making this work?
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bfritz: I mentioned the group that got together for the pilot project back in 2015. Super helpful to have the other counties, get together and work out, you know, and work out to address challenges.
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bfritz: I would say that the group, Vivian brought together many years ago
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bfritz: that's the kind of collaboration that really makes this stuff possible. It made funding possible, it helped us all understand the requirements of all the different agencies.
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bfritz: And, it's taken years for that to come to fruition, but now we're seeing, you know, now we're seeing regular events all up and down the California coast.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: Earlier, you said, contacting boaters is difficult. How do you reach boaters effectively? What messaging or outreach channels have you… have proven most successful?
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bfritz: I'm gonna…
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bfritz: turn my attention to, California state parks, boating and waterways. Boaters are hard to get in touch with, and boating and waterways,
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bfritz: works with them every day, all the time. So, Vivian and her group have been instrumental in doing the outreach for a county like Alameda. We know our people, but we don't know which one of them might have a boat.
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bfritz: We've also, of course, reached out to local marinas, Commodores, harbormasters, you know, we've passed out flyers and gone to talk to them. But,
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bfritz: Having that kind of broad outreach through boating and waterways has been… has been really, really important.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: What impact has the program had? Environmental benefits, safety improvements, or changes in voter behavior over nearly a decade?
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bfritz: I think holding these collection events has provided a real solution to boaters that didn't have an… to recreational boaters that didn't really have an option before. I hope that's changed their attitude, and I hope that, as
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bfritz: Recreational boaters learn about these events.
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bfritz: That they use them.
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bfritz: I really also hope that, funding continues to be available.
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bfritz: Through CalRecycle, or through whichever other channel, that can… that can come from.
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bfritz: If events can be held regularly, I think boaters will eventually get around to fitting it into their schedule and getting rid of their old, expired, and maybe dangerous flares over time.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: What's next for Alameda? Are you exploring permanent drop-off sites, regional coordination, or promoting LED distress alternatives?
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bfritz: We feel that the way we're doing it now makes the best sense. The… the collection facility that we have is close, is right in the middle of all of those boaters that have their boats in the water in Alameda County.
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bfritz: We'll definitely continue coordinating these events with other, jurisdictions, other organizations around the Bay Area, which makes it easier for boaters that may be located in a variety of, you know, all over the Bay Area, to find a way to get rid of their flares.
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bfritz: I also think, the electronic flares are a great idea.
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bfritz: We'll work to, to, to try and make it easier for boaters to, to get electronic flares, and perhaps replace their, their, pyrotechnic flares.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: Thank you so much, Bruce. Kathy.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: Welcome, thank you for joining us.
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Kathy: Hi!
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: Hi. So, what political, environmental, or community pressure pushed Marin to launch a program after years of statewide discussion?
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Kathy: Well, I think that as an agency, it's very frustrating when you have…
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Kathy: you know, residents calling, trying to find out where to dispose of these items properly, and know how in a program. So, I used to be the forefront Manager for our Marine Household Hazardous Waste Facility, and that's usually the place where people will try to go to dispose of the flares.
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Kathy: Unfortunately, at our facility, we do not have a permit to accept explosives.
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Kathy: Which makes it very complicated. However, for many years, when people disposed of waste at the permanent facility, the facility was ending
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Kathy: with some of these marine flares, which makes the agency responsible to dispose of those flares properly. So, as Bruce mentioned in 2020-15, Almeda
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Kathy: San Francisco and Marin County were granted some money from the state to be able to host those first events. Unfortunately, because we didn't have the staff capacity, we could not be part of that first event.
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Kathy: So, moving forward, we decided that there was still a need, and the only way to be able to prove
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Kathy: to our board to approve budget into implementing more of these kind of programs, collection programs, was to actually be able to host one event and collect information to determine participation, how many flares were… have been collected, and also
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Kathy: How much it actually costs.
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Kathy: So it was… it was mainly that need of, you know, not having a place for, recreational boaters within the County of Moraine to dispose of these dangerous, devices properly.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: What did you borrow from Alameda or other early adopters, and what did you intentionally not copy?
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Kathy: Well, I'm very grateful that Bruce, and actually Hoi from San Francisco, they really were the leaders around this, so, I appreciate that they put all the work, the research, as Bruce did, mention it.
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Kathy: It is a lot of work to put these events
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Kathy: Despite the fact that now we have more experience on what is required to host the events, it's still… there's a lot of work in terms of, like, permits, education.
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Kathy: trying to, select the proper vendor to transport and dispose of the flares, and working together, as Bruce mentioned it, with other counties so we can actually take advantage of having the events around the same time.
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Kathy: To make the disposal more cost-effective for all of us.
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Kathy: So I was able to attend, the first event that San Francisco had, and that was really great, because I was able to understand what the setup looked like, to understand how long you actually need to have before you host your event in terms of permits, because there are
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Kathy: again, as I mentioned, there are different events and permits that we need to collect, and you need to make sure that you have applied for those permits with enough time. Otherwise, you know, if the event comes and you don't have those permits, then you won't be able to have your event.
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Kathy: So that was really great in understanding as well, what was the main purpose in terms of the legislation on collecting data for the event. So, this is something that has been very important.
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Kathy: For our agency to understand that these events are not only important to
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Kathy: The residents because of disposing of these flares properly, but from an agency perspective, to make… to make sure that we're collecting data, that when it comes to pass any regulations that
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Kathy: you know, encourage the industry that makes these flares to also participate in the cost of disposing of the flares. So that was something that I learned very early as well from Bruce in Alameda and from San Francisco.
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Kathy: I feel like, you know.
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Kathy: they did so well that it… there wasn't anything that they said, oh, I will not implement this in our county. I think that sometimes what is different is, like, I know that Bruce in Alameda, he has some employees who collect the flares.
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Kathy: And, you know, part of his team kind of, like, helps a little bit with that, and if I'm correct, Bruce, you can correct me about this.
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Kathy: But they also have a magazine, which we actually don't have. So, there's some benefits for some other agencies that they may have the staff to accept those flares into their facilities, the permits. As I mentioned, we don't have an explosive
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Kathy: Permit to take those flares into our permanent household waste facility, and we don't have the space to have a magazine.
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Kathy: So…
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Kathy: again, it was more about that. I think that's something also that I learned from these programs and, you know, working with Vivian and with CPSC, with Virginia, is the importance of working with local partners. So, in our situation, because we don't own any of these marinas, we don't own any of these properties, so trying to identify which marina was best location in
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Kathy: in terms of…
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Kathy: the public coming through, their vehicles and trying to set up the hot zone where the flares can be accepted. It was very important because we have many marinas throughout the county, but, you know, you need to build those relationships, because many of those marinas are private.
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Kathy: properties. So just, you know, explaining to them and understanding also their point of view on, you know, the importance of this partnership. So that, that was something that I, I actually learned a lot as well from Bruce, Vivian MCPSC.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: How many flares have you collected since your first event in 2023? Did participation match expectations, or did you discover unmet demand?
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Kathy: Well, so luckily, we have experience hosting these kind of, like, temporary events, and when I say this is more in terms of household has resources waste, even though, you know,
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Kathy: we wouldn't say exactly that many inflators are household hazardous waste, but, you know, we have been considering to host these events because it's coming from recreational boaters who are residents within the county of Moraine.
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Kathy: So, based on that, what we did is, we usually count that into these type of collection events. There's a participation between 40 to 70 people. And then we do this by appointment only, which also kind of, like, helps us to budget, because it would be really difficult if we don't put a limit
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Kathy: Because it's very easy to go very quickly over your budget. So, to kind of, you know, have that understanding, we're limited to the number of participants that can attend, and we were also looking at what Alameda and San Francisco were having
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Kathy: In terms of numbers when they hosted their events in previous years.
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Kathy: So, we have had about 4,200 units collected throughout the 3 years that we have been hosting the events, and the participation that we have had is around 220 people.
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Kathy: And all of those are Marine residents.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: And how did you secure funding as a new program? Did you rely on CalRecycle's grants, local budgets, or partnerships to get started?
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Kathy: So, the first event, the first year, we actually used, agency's funds. We did not use any grant money.
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Kathy: However, when the grant cycle was open, then we decided to apply for the grant. This grant, it's a 3-year grant. However, because of the expenses that we have had, we were able to spend the money in 2 years, so we just finalized
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Kathy: The last, money…
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Kathy: using to pay, you know, just to pay that, the disposal and to pay CPSC to help us to, with the grant management.
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Kathy: then we just use that money, and then for this fiscal year, then we have put that into our budget. So, our goal is that whenever the grant is open again, because we cannot apply for that grant every year, we have to wait a couple of years before we reapply.
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Kathy: But we hope that when that grant is open again for us to apply, then we will go ahead and apply and try.
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Kathy: to use those monies. But until now, again, as I mentioned it, we have incorporated that in our current budget.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: And what metrics matter most to you? Volume, participation, education, or environmental impact?
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Kathy: So, I think that at first, when I started managing this program, which was about 2 years ago, my main interest was volume and participation, because again, that's how I can actually recommend on how much money we should be allocating
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Kathy: In terms of disposal, contractors,
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Kathy: And what I'm learning more is in terms of the education. So, education has become very important. This last year, we actually had separate funding
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Kathy: From our agency, from the grant money, and we had money to enhance some of our programs. And it was really focused on bilingual, outreach, so we actually, again, paid outside the grant money.
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Kathy: for videos. So, when we hosted the event last year during the fall, we have a videography who
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Kathy: videographer who came and filmed the entire event. So, we're gonna post that on our YouTube channel. We also interviewed people who attended the event, because with the grant money, we were able to purchase some of these e-flares and give participants in exchange of dropping off their flares, the e-flares, so they get incentive and motivation
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Kathy: to attend.
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Kathy: to events, and then through interviewing them, we're actually learning more of what they need from us. So, for example, one of the interviewers mentioned that he would like, actually, the Coast Guard to come and train them.
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Kathy: in how to use the, you know, pyrotechnic flares, as well as the new flares. So, for us, like, I'm identifying that this educational material is really important. We also came up with the idea of how in
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Kathy: a local… Person who represent
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Kathy: kind of, the boating, and actually, we find out, like, kayakers as well sometimes have marine flares when they go, you know, kayaking, like, far away. So, we were able to contact someone here in Marine, who is a professional kayaker, and he has had, like, some Guinness records. And then we recorded some videos
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Kathy: with him, and we're gonna be actually using these videos to promote the UN during this fall.
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Kathy: So, education has been great, and in terms of the environment, of course, that's a plus benefit of all of that, because then we can actually say, wow, you know, we have taken 4,200 units.
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Kathy: of going either… I mean, I don't know, I never have seen this in the landfill, but my question is always, like, where do they go, right? So we don't know if they're being thrown into the ocean, and…
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Kathy: I mean, I have known that people have been a story in this for a really, really long time.
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Kathy: I actually work with the contractor during the time of the event, counting a lot of these marine flares, and we're collecting information of
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Kathy: which brands are we seeing? And I was shocked to see that we have flares from 1975, 1972. So that's where we say, wow, there is a need.
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Kathy: For people to dispose of these flares, because if they have been storing these flares from
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Kathy: you know, those years. I mean, I can't imagine…
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Kathy: how many more are out there. So, again, it's kind of like… it's not like a one thing, but…
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Kathy: Just, again, to reason what you asked, first was volume and participation, and then now we're more towards the education and the environmental impact.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: What needs to happen from REN to move from occasional event to a stable, ongoing program?
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Kathy: Well, I think that we are already moving in that direction. After 3 years, we have been able to show that this is a program that the residents of Moraine County are in need to have.
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Kathy: And for right now, I mean, we're just gonna host one event. We… at one point, we studied the idea of having two events during the year, but at this point, we don't see that need.
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Kathy: I think that's something that I would like to evaluate and maybe talk more with Bruce and some of my other colleagues within the industry is…
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Kathy: You know, the possibility of having a magazine at our…
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Kathy: facility, like, household has resource-based facility, like, how complicated is that? But, you know, that would require more conversations, and I don't know if that's the best direction to go, but there are always opportunities to explore. So, as it is right now, we're not doing any more, like, piloting programs. We kind of, like, have established this program to be an annual program.
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Kathy: And what will be… what is really good, as Bruce mentioned it as well, is that
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Kathy: Our goal is that we can host these events around the same time of the year, because then people are excited. They… we actually, as part of… as what… as mentioned in this, we did a enhancement program, and we sent
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Kathy: a guide to all Marine residents, and we inform them about our fall event. And they're already asking, like, when is the event? You know, we get emails, people asking, hey, can… do you have a date? But, you know, sometimes it's challenging because of all the planning that is required, so we just find out when our event is gonna happen, so it's not around August.
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Kathy: That we can actually tell residents, hey, it's gonna be this day during the fall. But for the most part, you know.
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Kathy: Residents should be looking to have these events during the fall, around the end of November… sorry, end of October, beginning of November.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: And what's next for Marin County?
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Kathy: Well, we want to continue collecting data, because I think that that is very valuable information, and then to determine how we can use that data in a useful way to, you know, show Marin County residents that
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Kathy: the money that we are collecting from them is really making a difference. If we can continue supporting legislation, that would be really good. We want to continue encouraging people to be using the e-flares, and I think that's something that is very important
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Kathy: now that I'm getting more familiar with these devices, is
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Kathy: because they have a battery, the importance that those batteries are disposed properly, and also because it's really difficult, or… I mean, because people…
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Kathy: Don't know this kind of…
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Kathy: Things, like, there are hazardous waste even when they have a battery, but, like, because they're gonna be on a boat, they really have to make sure that they're storing properly those batteries, because if they get exposed a lot to humidity, and a lot to changes in temperatures, which happens when you are in a boat, then your batteries may not function properly.
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Kathy: So I love the fact that we're, you know, having an alternative from the paratechnic flares, and at the same time, we need to make sure
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Kathy: That, you know, either voters, know exactly how to dispose of those batteries properly, but mainly for them, in case of an emergency, to make sure that they're storaging properly those batteries, because eventually.
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Kathy: If you don't have good batteries, your device is not gonna work.
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Kathy: So, I think that that's something that I'm noticing, that is… it would be really important for us to try to encourage people to make sure, from a safety perspective, when they are on the boats and in case of an emergency, and also
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Kathy: You know, when they're trying to dispose of those batteries as well, because then it's something that concerns us as well as an agency.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: Thank you, Kathy.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: For our audience out there, please check our podcast notes for more resources about our annual Marine Flare Collection events, and to subscribe to our future collection events, and much more.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: Thank you, Doug, Virginia, Vivian, Kathy, and Bruce for your time today. California has been at the forefront of this issue for years, and it's clear that the combination of public education, collection events, and now the Coast Guard's internal transition to electronic distress devices
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: Is shaping a safer and more sustainable future for boaters.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: Thank you to all of our friends out there listening to Dockside. Please make sure to tune in for our future episodes.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: This podcast is copyrighted by California State Parks and the California Coastal Commission. No part of this podcast may be reproduced or distributed without the written permission of California State Parks, its districts or divisions, and the California Coastal Commission. The views and opinions expressed
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: In this episode are those of the guest and do not necessarily represent the official policies, positions, or endorsements of the California State Parks.
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Sara Kennedy, California State Parks: The State of California, or the California Coastal Commission.