#138: Masculinity & Relationships w/ Mike Elliott

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Hey everybody, and welcome back to Divulgence.
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Uh today I'm really excited to uh welcome on a relationship expert, uh men's coach and podcaster, um, Mike Elliott.
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Mike, so glad to have you here, man.
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Uh, what's going on?
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Yeah, hey Jordan.
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Happy to be here.
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Looking forward to our conversation.
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Yeah, me too, man.
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It's uh uh I'm happy that we finally got to meet and um take some time to chat.
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So uh I know that you you probably cover a lot of different topics given the uh the work that you do dealing with um uh relationships and men and masculinity and all that stuff.
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And uh I feel like uh I'm not sure if you would agree completely, but I feel like over the last I mean, it feels like it's been a while now, but I feel like the last five, maybe even reaching back 10 or so years, I feel like masculinity and uh men in general, the gender have sort of been uh under attack and um in certain ways.
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So um, yeah, what are your thoughts on that?
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And um after that, where would you like to start?
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I I just thought that would kind of be a a thought to to start things off with.
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Yeah, it's a great thought because you're hitting a really palpable thing.
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I think there's a lot of attack on masculinity, not just from women or other genders, but from men on the inside.
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You know, almost every man, almost every man that I've worked with is suffering from an immense amount of internalized shame.
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And when they aren't showing up or where they're not able to provide, they're beating the shit out of themselves.
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So getting it from the outside, getting it from culture, and if we look at movies, there's a prime example of this.
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Often men are portrayed as idiots, like they aren't really revered, and that's among other things, among other things, among other things, and and then also the internalization of all of that messaging that's subliminal.
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Men are living with it, and it's really a problem.
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It's the silent epidemic for men that I see over and over, and I know this one intimately because it's the one that I lived, and it ruined my life not having the blueprint of what does it actually look like to be a mature man in the world?
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Like, how do I do this?
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I didn't get the owner's manual from my dad, I didn't get it from school, I didn't get it from culture.
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So, how the hell were we supposed to show up and do the thing that we want to do?
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And that I think is in every man who has a pumping heart, it's in our DNA to be a provider, to be a protector.
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But if we don't even know how to do that for ourselves, how are we supposed to do it for someone else?
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Wow, man, you you're really uh you're really resonating with me uh as a man.
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Um, yeah, man.
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Uh I I completely I completely agree with that.
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Um it's it's tough.
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Um, and just before you get started, I will say that you mentioning that uh from your experiencing, from your experience hearing from others about this like internal struggle.
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Yeah, I I I I I've been there and I'm there.
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I definitely feel um, especially with the the culture shifts and the societal shifts, uh, it's I feel like you're always sort of having to stop and assess the situation, uh stop to assess yourself, uh your behavior when even if you know that you're you know you're deep down a good good-hearted person, a good person with uh proper behavior, um, which I think I am, I still find myself uh questioning, maybe not questioning myself, but um, you know, assessing and just you know, just having those doubts and and fears that I'm sure that you hear about a lot.
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Yeah, it's such a big one.
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And I I still dance with it, even the years of doing all this work.
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You know, I've been in men's work for over 10 years and I've seen patterns and themes in others, but also inside of me.
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And that voice never goes away.
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But my relationship to it has changed.
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And that's what I feel all men are being invited into is really intimately getting to know what is the voice speaking inside of my head?
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Is it in service to me?
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Or is it someone else's voice that got programmed in subconsciously without me actually getting to decide whether I want it to be there or not?
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This is the journey of maturing as a man.
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Can I be so aware to recognize the quality of my thought that is creating my present-day reality?
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That's the journey of masculinity, of maturing.
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You know, the if if we're talking about masculinity, I want to oversimplify for all the listeners.
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I want to highlight the healthy expression of masculine energy that's not gender-specific, but the masculine part that you know we're talking about here that can be a struggle.
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Masculine energy is the energy of becoming, it's the energy of expanding awareness.
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If we're not expanding in our awareness and our perspective, and if we are not bringing our gifts to the world in a way that is in service to humanity, I believe we will be struggling with internalized shame.
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We will be hard on ourselves because naturally we are here to become something.
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We're here to make some sort of lasting imprint.
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Hopefully, if we fully embody our strengths and our gifts, will last through time and space beyond our death.
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Like that's the journey we're here to arrive into.
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Like, I'm gonna make such a difference in my own inner world, bring something that people talk about after I die.
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I think that is the healthy expression of masculinity.
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But if we don't know that, we won't be able to suss out or filter how well am I doing in that journey of masculinity?
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Am I becoming something I feel good about that's nourishing?
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If I'm not, I think I'm missing my mark.
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Not as I'm doing anything wrong, but there's an opportunity to step into more here.
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This is really good stuff, man.
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This is really interesting.
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I'm really excited that we got to finally start talking.
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Um, yeah, me too.
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Yeah, I've I've um we've we've talked about a little bit of uh like social gender issues and stuff on the show, but excuse me.
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Um just because it's become so prevalent, even more so lately, uh, it's something that I've really wanted to start tackling.
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So I'm really glad you're here.
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And um, yeah, I I I'm really glad you're here and we can we can start having these conversations.
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So um with with that being said, uh I just want to throw out uh something that I've been meaning to ask you.
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Uh your thoughts on um toxic toxic masculinity.
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Um do you believe it's a real thing?
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Um what do you think?
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Uh what are your thoughts on how it's portrayed, and especially more so over the past uh few years?
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Yeah, I think toxic masculinity is a thing, but the meanings and the stories that we've created about it, I think are where we go a little sideways.
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There's a lot of shaming of toxic masculinity, and it's important to name that because we're all human beings and we're all imperfect.
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When I look at toxic masculinity, what I'm looking at in myself is the part of me that is shadow.
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The part of me to oversimplify the meaning of shadow is it's the challenged part of ourself, it's the part of us that's maybe not fully mature, it's childlike, it's still figuring things out, it does hurt people, doesn't really know the impact of its use of power.
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Any masculine energy that is creating a negative impact on the environment, I believe is toxic masculinity.
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But I don't think toxic is bad.
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It's just what is.
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Now, if we're not aware of it and it keeps perpetuating, and now it's going out and it's turned into narcissistic traits where men are hurting partners and people and taking, and you know, yeah, that's toxic.
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Now, shaming it isn't going to make it any better because this is a tricky thing.
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Toxicity is a form of grandiosity, it's energy that places itself up and over another.
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And that grandiosity is a survival strategy because there's actually a vulnerability underneath.
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And what's tricky about grandiosity is grandiosity feels good for the one who's in it because it's meant to numb the person from the shame and the healthy uh feelings that would bring back someone into uh a social responsibility of, oh, I am impacting people.
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That matters.
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I should maybe slow down and consider what I'm doing or saying here.
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If we're in grandiosity, we're actually just beating someone or something up because it feels good to do that, because it's better than, oh my God, I'm actually terrified and scared.
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And this is what happens in a lot of relationships when people are fighting back and forth is it's grandiosity and it's never going to win with aggression.
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The way to heal toxic masculinity is understanding the very essence of what's created it.
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And this is we're looking at a man who's under-resourced.
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Uh, an under-resourced man is a dangerous man.
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So we just need to look at the reality of we're looking at a lack of resource.
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Let's not shame the shit out of this guy.
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He may not even be aware.
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Let's get curious of how to bring an immense amount of what I call fierce love, which is mirror and reflection of hey, dude, this isn't helpful for anyone around you or you.
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This is in your interest to stop and take a look at what's happening.
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If we can bring in fierce love, not shaming and attacking, because again, when we shame and attack, it'll get bigger.
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Yeah.
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So someone who's a narcissist, you can't gum and be like, You're a narcissist.
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He'd be like, Yeah, screw you.
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And then he gets bigger and meaner.
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It's like because he's so afraid.
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There's it's that is a coping strategy that is protecting something.
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But if we bring in accurate mirror and reflection that is in care of the person, now they're gonna drop the weapons.
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Now they are gonna feel ashamed.
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Oh my god, I'm hurting you.
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Oh, I don't want to be hurting you.
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And then now we're offering over new ingredients that lead into a new direction, which is I need to grow these parts up.
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That's how we shift out of toxic masculinity is getting radically responsible of how do I create more resource in my life so that I'm a safe man to myself and the people around me.
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Interesting.
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Okay.
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Um just some things just kind of pop into my mind while we're having this conversation.
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Um obviously there are, and there kind of always have been, um, you know, male role models.
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Uh, you know, there's it's just it's been around since you know pretty much the beginning of time, and you know, there's the famous ones, there's Arnold, and there's James Bond, and there's yeah, you know, yada yada yada.
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But now we're seeing these influencers, um which I feel like um could be a really good thing.
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But uh, what are your thoughts on some of these influencers?
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Um I guess I guess are you familiar?
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I'm sure you're probably familiar with like the um the manosphere, and have you like are you familiar with that?
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Uh the um Netflix put out a a documentary not too long ago about the manosphere, Louis Thoreau.
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Are you familiar with that?
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Yeah, I'm aware of the manosphere and the nature and the culture of it, and I haven't watched the the okay.
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But you're but you're aware.
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Okay, so some of these people like my Myron Gaines and uh Andrew Tate, uh, or uh or um more on the fitness side.
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There's people if you're familiar with like Wes Watson, if you've heard of him, or this uh King Ben Azulli.
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Um what are your what are your thoughts on on people like that?
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Because honestly, I really I really don't think they are they're they're doing this work under the guise of oh, you know, we're trying to teach men to be men and teach people how to be rich and make money and be healthy and strong and muscular.
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And you're like, that all sounds great, but it seems like a lot of these guys are not good people, and like they're just scamming people.
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Um when they're not doing that, they're they're having other legal issues, um and and the the messages that are ultimately being sent um just don't seem to be that great, and a lot of the times they it seems to be um uh at the loss of of the female, and I don't think that that's uh I don't know, like I I I could be wrong, but um I think you would agree that I don't think the goal is to uh while you know letting the man rise up to be the best he can be, put put the woman down at the same time, right?
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So, what are your thoughts on some of these guys and and their messages?
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And because you know, a lot of these people are um like uh if you're familiar with the term lol cow, um, and people just you know point their finger and laugh and and you know stuff like that.
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But on the other hand, I mean, these people wouldn't necessarily be that popular if they didn't actually have a real following of people that do respect them.
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So I don't know, man, what are your thoughts on some of these people?
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Because uh I look at some of them and I think to myself, you kind of gotta be um I think what kind of person do you have to be to to follow these people and genuine, genuinely think that yeah, that's a role model to me, that's a great person.
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And actually, I I recommend checking out the uh the Manosphere documentary just for the reason that he interviews some some Andrew Tate fans and and these kind of fans.
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And you you kind of you kind of feel really bad for them because they don't seem to um, I mean they're they're probably not all like that, but they don't they don't seem to grasp what these people are really like.
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They it's almost like they're not listening to the message fully.
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Um yeah, sorry, I'm kind of dragging on here.
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The original what is your thought of these people?
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What are you what are your thoughts of these people?
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Oversimplified patriarchy.
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And so for anyone listening, patriarchy can be there's so many meanings or definitions around it, but I want I want to name the one that just stands out.
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Masculine energy that is disconnected from nature.
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This is masculine energy that defaults to domination, power over, grandiosity.
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This is the this is a coping strategy for an immense amount of vulnerability underneath, is my bold belief.
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There is something really terrified and afraid in the development.
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If we go back, I can almost guarantee if we were to go back and objectively watch the tape or the movie of what happened in the early developmental phases of these men, I can almost guarantee neglect, abuse, yeah, um, false empowerment, which means given too much responsibility at the stage of development that they're at.
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That's all developmental trauma.
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And if masculine energy is disconnected from feminine energy, it turns into patriarchy because friction feels good.
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And if you're a man listening to this, I think you can relate.
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Friction feels good, it feels good to penetrate it, it feels good to go fast, it feels good in yes, you named it, Jordan, in the moment, instant gratification from the moment.
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It feels so good in the moment.
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Like, let's fucking pedal to the metal burn, my friend.
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Like, just let's go fast, let's screw hard, let's and that feels good.
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Building, making money, yep.
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That's still a part of life that's not bad or wrong.
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But if it's not informed, this is my way of relating with it from the inside.
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If masculine energy inside of me isn't informed by the feminine part of me, yeah, then it is gonna create a mess, it is gonna be power over and domineering.
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And so we need to understand the definition of feminine.
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Feminine energy is the energy of being, it's surrender, it's the part of us that wants to be seen.
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If that isn't being nourished by the practice of stillness, building relationship, really feeling the feedback of what's happening in relationship, we won't know how to penetrate with the masculine energy.
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And so, what masculine energy will then do is I'm feminine energy is for my use.
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If we go back in history, this is where masculine energy disembodied turned into burning women at the stake.
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It's the energy that was afraid of the unpredictability of feminine energy that's alive, that's wild, it's the wild woman, men afraid of it and stronger in most cases, and then want to smother it and kill it because it's really good at calling men out on their shit.
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It's really good at pulling out blind spots, pointing out blind spots.
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So then masculine energy tried to kill them, turn them into prostitutes, and then okay, well, let's put them in our kitchens and that's your clock, and just take care of the kids and take the whole mental load of the entire family, and I'll give you the scraps of what's left over after I spend everything I want to spend for my experience.
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You know, that's just so disconnected, it's very primal.
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So I want to be careful here.
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I'm not judging it in the sense of it's bad or wrong, it's an underdeveloped form of masculinity, masculinity that's been given a lot of power.
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Okay, too much power.
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Yes, and now it's not honoring the feminine because I believe true healthy embodied masculinity is forever tracking what is happening for the feminine in life, and I'm in service to it because they are more vulnerable in a certain sense.
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There's less privilege there, there's a vulnerability of their moon cycle, which is their period, their hormones are shifting every month, again and again and again.
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They're being reborn every month, and that's a vulnerable situation that society hasn't considered or be considered, they haven't been considerate of it.
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And so there's a privilege that we have, and I believe it's every man's job to mature this privilege so that it can be in service to the women and the children.
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Because if we're in service to the women and the children, we're now actually creating an environment that's nourishing for everyone.
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And if it's nourishing for everyone, guess who else it nourishes?
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This person right here, me.
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But if it's not, all the pains, the insecurities will turn into I need more substance, I need more status, I need more money to overcompensate from the voids that are deep down inside.
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Yeah, it's you're you're speaking to me for sure, man.
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Um What do you think needs to happen for things to kind of mix in my questions up here?
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Yeah, I I get my main question is how do how do man kind of turn turn things around um to the to the to the point where it's like, you know, hey, you know, we aren't the bad guys you say we are.
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Um and I'm just while I'm asking that question, I'm just thinking in the back of my head, like we have these people that we were just talking about pushing this masculinity to, you know, trying to say that they're men and that's what masculinity should be.
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I mean, and with that on the rise, um I mean however long it takes to die out, um, you know, how do you see men doing that?
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How do we see men being able to discern which type of masculinity to move towards?
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Um, well, that that's a really good question too.
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But I just I more so I was just thinking, how do men kind of uh I I guess as a group, uh more so kind of turn the tables on how we're being looked at as a group?
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Yeah, great.
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Love that question.
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And that even that man, Jordan, that question even in itself brings me chills.
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And I get chilled.
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I call them truth bumps.
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When I'm in the presence of truth in another man, it feels so good in my body.
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And that's this.
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I'm naming this because this is what I feel is the way out of this.
00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:27.279
This childlike behavior that isn't honoring the feminine, it's being so connected to the body to feel where there's truth mirrored back in proximity to other men that are doing work, men that are still connected to the heart, and the heart is leading the head.
00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:34.480
If we're in proximity to other men where the head's the heart's leading, not the head, we're actually moving in the right direction.
00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:45.599
And the more men that we have in masses embodying that energy, it will dissolve and dilute that version of man over there.
00:22:45.759 --> 00:23:03.519
Not because they're bad and wrong, but the mirror and the reflection of another way will be so strong where women are feeling so safe in the presence of it, so inspired, so considered that they're able to heal the trauma that's inside of them, where kids are moving into healthy development and aren't being shut down.
00:23:03.759 --> 00:23:08.720
If we're creating an environment like that, that will speak for itself.
00:23:08.880 --> 00:23:12.720
We won't have to talk to prove to prove anything.
00:23:13.039 --> 00:23:19.279
It'll just be so damn attractive and so nourishing that people will flock towards it.
00:23:19.440 --> 00:23:36.720
And then the other part will be left with so much space and space and distance where the money, the status doesn't have the same power, doesn't have the same impact that hopefully eventually the mere back of their behavior will finally land in their felt sense of, oh my God, I've run amok.
00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:38.960
I'm being a bit of an ass.
00:23:39.200 --> 00:23:45.680
And I've now impacted my own environment now because of a loss of respect.
00:23:46.000 --> 00:24:02.000
And so to single this out and bring this back home, I really believe if a man is willing to do the inner work, move towards men, where what you said, where like, well, what you're sharing is really landing.
00:24:02.160 --> 00:24:18.000
If men can move towards men who are doing the work and there's a remembering happening inside, a reconnecting to the heart and wanting to show up with kindness, not softness, you know, and this is where I think a lot of men get confused is I don't want to be a soft man.
00:24:18.160 --> 00:24:22.559
So there's an attractiveness to, well, he's got money and he's just able to do so much.
00:24:22.720 --> 00:24:35.759
Because a lot of men are sitting with a collapse or a freeze in their nervous system, and that feels better looking at the manosphere because there is a lot happening that they want, but there's it doesn't have to be that or this.
00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:37.839
It's not this or that, it's this and that.
00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:45.680
How do we take the health of that expression of masculinity, but then mature it and attune it to the feminine energy?
00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:53.680
And to encapsulate this, what I really feel we're talking about here is the energy of leadership.
00:24:54.079 --> 00:25:20.480
If leadership requires in its healthy expression, if we talk about leadership connected to nature, healthy masculinity, what we're talking about about is a man who is so clear in himself and who he is that he has clarity in the direction that he's going, that the decisions he makes creates an environment that's nourishing for him and the people around him.
00:25:21.680 --> 00:25:24.000
That's the real life rapport card.
00:25:24.160 --> 00:25:32.880
Is how in the use of my power and my behaviors, am I nourishing me and the people around me?
00:25:33.039 --> 00:25:37.599
Or is everyone in the home having a good time when I walk into the room?
00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:38.880
Do they feel seen?
00:25:39.039 --> 00:25:40.559
Do they feel respected?
00:25:40.880 --> 00:25:42.400
Do they feel cared for?
00:25:42.640 --> 00:25:44.160
Are they given a resource?
00:25:44.319 --> 00:25:46.480
Am I giving from an overflowing cup?
00:25:46.640 --> 00:25:47.200
Guess what?
00:25:47.359 --> 00:25:53.599
If I am amazing, they're gonna share their respect and reverence for me walking into the room.
00:25:53.680 --> 00:26:01.599
There's my real life report card, one that is hard to deny, defend.
00:26:02.400 --> 00:26:13.839
Because if the majority of the people in our presence are feeling nourished and good in themselves, now we're reconnected to nature, feminine informing the masculine.
00:26:24.799 --> 00:26:43.839
Um, we don't have to get into it today, but like I've had some uh we'll just say like scenarios and things go on with certain relationships and friends uh lately that uh involve some of the things that you're saying, and you're just you're really hitting on a lot of stuff.
00:26:43.920 --> 00:26:48.000
So that's uh I'm really yeah, again, I'm really enjoying this.
00:26:48.240 --> 00:26:50.960
Um okay, yeah, man.
00:26:51.200 --> 00:27:01.279
Um how about let's let's uh let's approach your the question that came out of my question that you brought up.
00:27:01.440 --> 00:27:12.960
I think you said um uh how will men best be able to, and especially I think it's most significant for young men because it just sets their path.
00:27:13.039 --> 00:27:54.720
Uh, how can they distinguish um between you know the kind of stuff that I think you and me are pushing uh and and rallying behind and the kind of stuff that you know these influencers the Tates and and these other kind of people are uh are pushing, and which you know which one is truly the best one because the pro I mean uh and again like I did say like some of these people you look at them and you think okay, no one's gonna follow them, but some people, um like Andrew Tate, for instance, they like any con man, right?
00:27:54.960 --> 00:28:01.440
They make sure to sprinkle in enough truth and razzle dazzle in there to to get you on the hook, right?
00:28:01.680 --> 00:28:16.880
So, and I feel like he has been very um from what I've seen, from what I've read in you know, articles and stuff, he seems to be one that is very prominent um among young men.
00:28:17.200 --> 00:28:33.119
So yeah, how are these young men supposed to look at that and you know, maybe look at the other side of the coin, which might be what we're looking at, and and determine, okay, well, which one's the true one um to choose?
00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:37.119
Um because I feel like you know it could be hard for some guys.
00:28:37.279 --> 00:28:42.319
I feel like it could be, especially with the with the climate, with the social the social climate.
00:28:42.799 --> 00:28:45.680
Yeah, it's gonna be confusing.
00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:56.240
And the reason for it, I want to speak to the reason why it would be confusing is being in proximity to patriarchal energy is exciting in the moment, yeah.
00:28:56.559 --> 00:29:13.440
In the moment, in the moment, it's invigorating, and that invigoration can be confused as guidance or can be confused as love or freedom because again, it's stimulus, and I want to really highlight this.
00:29:13.519 --> 00:29:22.960
If there's a younger man listening, you are biologically designed to prefer stimulus, friction, arousal.
00:29:23.440 --> 00:29:31.200
But if we don't learn how to contain that primal part of us, we will just follow the savage desires.
00:29:32.160 --> 00:29:36.400
If we're not in there discerning, is this the best use of my power?
00:29:36.640 --> 00:29:39.279
Is this a wise direction to go?
00:29:39.519 --> 00:29:58.400
If we're not in there filtering it, we'll just get swept away by that energy that is so um enticing and contagious, and then we'll be in an environment where, oh no, years later, months or years later, oh no, I don't like who I've become.
00:29:58.559 --> 00:30:01.680
I've I've now had multiple failed marriages.
00:30:01.759 --> 00:30:05.920
You know, I think of the high-performing men that usually end up on discovery calls with me.
00:30:06.079 --> 00:30:14.720
They've made millions, they have status, they have all the things, and they're sitting there feeling completely empty and broken inside because they've destroyed most of their relationships.
00:30:15.359 --> 00:30:17.519
That's a painful place to end up.
00:30:17.680 --> 00:30:30.480
And it's confusing for a lot of men because it felt good for a lot of the ride, and it's only later slowly dropping down to see the environment that they created around themselves that's not so nourishing.
00:30:30.799 --> 00:30:34.720
It's only then, okay, now I'm I'm gonna make a change.
00:30:35.039 --> 00:30:49.039
So for the men, especially younger men, I want to highlight don't just trust what feels good in the moment, practice being in the art of contemplation and considering do you want to become that?
00:30:49.759 --> 00:30:54.240
Will that is that the man that you want to be in the world?
00:30:54.559 --> 00:31:08.720
And to go deeper is spend some time investigating the reality of some of these people's lives, spend some time using AI or Google and start to ask really high-quality questions.
00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:10.559
Are they in a thriving relationship?
00:31:10.799 --> 00:31:22.960
Get curious about what their partner says about their experience with them, see if they've had many divorces, see if they've had businesses, what do people say on threads around how they felt treated by that person in certain businesses?
00:31:23.119 --> 00:31:35.200
Do a little bit of digging so that you inside of yourself can make a proper discerning decision of who you want to become and who you want to be led by, who you want to be informed by.
00:31:35.519 --> 00:31:44.480
Prime example of this is I was filling my truck up at the gas station a couple days ago, and there was a biker gang.
00:31:44.559 --> 00:31:45.759
I couldn't read their jackets.
00:31:46.000 --> 00:31:57.200
It might have been Hell's Angels, but it was evidently a biker gang, probably 50 bikes, and just the whole gas station was rumbling in these leather jackets.
00:31:57.279 --> 00:32:00.640
There's gas, some of their gas tanks say something kill.
00:32:00.799 --> 00:32:06.480
They've got things on their back of their uh jackets that are just like the big middle finger.
00:32:06.640 --> 00:32:10.559
And it's very evident this is a biker gang in the mean business.
00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:16.160
And I'm gonna be honest, when I drove up, I felt invigorated by all this energy.
00:32:16.319 --> 00:32:31.200
Like there's like rumbling motors, and there's these tough guys, they've got women on their back and they're smoking cigarettes, and there's some lead guy, and he's talking to so-and-so at the front, and he's talking really like and you do this, and then we do that, and then we're gonna go.
00:32:31.359 --> 00:32:32.319
And it's just like, whoa.
00:32:32.480 --> 00:32:38.799
And I'm sitting there filling up my truck, and actually sat in my truck, and I was feeling the energy in my body, and I was like, Oh, I remember this.
00:32:38.880 --> 00:32:41.599
This is back when I used to be a drug dealer debt collector.
00:32:41.680 --> 00:32:43.839
This is what I got swept away by.
00:32:44.160 --> 00:33:00.640
And so I sat there and I just noticed what it was invoking in me, and it's breathing that energy through me, and I was feeling that primal power, and I was letting myself, and then I was remembering, oh, yeah, that's what it's like to be an animal, completely connected to the animal part.
00:33:00.799 --> 00:33:18.240
I love that part of me because I know how to contain it, I know how to direct it in service to humanity, I know how to connect to my heart and use that primal energy to get shit done, to move through difficult moments and hard conversations, but it's contained.
00:33:18.880 --> 00:33:26.880
A young man who gets in proximity to that amount of power that doesn't know the containment part yet, we've got a problem.
00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:30.640
So I want to oversimplify that.
00:33:31.119 --> 00:33:37.039
Power is mature masculine, like the healthy expression of our power is mature masculinity.
00:33:37.119 --> 00:33:39.519
It can be remembered by these three C's.
00:33:39.839 --> 00:33:49.359
Mature masculinity is a man who is clear, has clarity, has capacity, and has containment, the ability to contain his energy.
00:33:49.599 --> 00:33:57.440
If he can do those three things, we have a man that's going to use his power in a way that is beneficial to others.
00:33:57.680 --> 00:34:08.320
And that is going to bring him into a really good life because he knows how to move energy, know when to penetrate, and know when to sit back and relax and breathe and listen.
00:34:09.039 --> 00:34:15.519
And if a man can be in that practice, that simplicity practice of I need to be clear in who I am.
00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:19.280
I want to be discerning of who I'm taking information and advice from.
00:34:19.440 --> 00:34:21.199
Do I want the life that they have?
00:34:21.440 --> 00:34:25.760
And if you're answering yes, okay, go learn what that creates.
00:34:26.400 --> 00:34:30.480
And my prayer is okay, it's going to create something you feel really inspired by.
00:34:30.639 --> 00:34:35.760
For me, I I unconsciously chose because of the friction and what felt good.
00:34:35.920 --> 00:34:42.719
And so I ended up in an environment like the biker gang and wasn't so great, even though it was so exciting.
00:34:43.920 --> 00:34:47.519
It was like being in the center of an Avengers film.
00:34:48.559 --> 00:34:49.199
Right.
00:34:51.760 --> 00:34:54.719
Energy and needing it all the time to feel good.
00:34:54.960 --> 00:34:56.559
It kills the future self.
00:34:56.639 --> 00:35:08.239
But being in the practice of, no, no, no, I want to get to know who I am so I know what how I'm directing my energy, that created something different, which is the life I have now, which is I get to support and serve other men of doing this work.
00:35:08.480 --> 00:35:10.639
Let's help you get clear in who you are.
00:35:10.880 --> 00:35:24.880
I'll show you what it looks like to be a man with different ingredients that takes responsibility for the role of father and husband, that wants to work through all my shadows and the trauma that still lives in my body so that I can be a model for others.
00:35:25.119 --> 00:35:27.840
Not by something I say, but by how I live.
00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:34.320
If a young man can find an environment where that is the culture, he's gonna live a good life.
00:35:37.840 --> 00:35:38.800
I love it, man.
00:35:38.880 --> 00:35:39.760
I really like that.
00:35:39.920 --> 00:36:21.679
You uh I feel like I feel like this would be a great way um this would be a great kind of uh extra answer to all some of the questions we've been asking is you know, for men to uh kind of get together in this kind of capacity and just have these kind of discussions, these kind of mature, uh honest and real and deep discussions about uh being yourself and being a man and uh what it means and uh and that kind of thing, I think that would go a long way.
00:36:21.920 --> 00:36:39.199
Um I feel like I'm sure maybe women do it too, but I think I think men uh when they're around each other, sometimes they act in a way to you know fit in and have the others approve.
00:36:39.360 --> 00:37:09.360
So, you know, if that if someone is kind of toxic, if you want to put it that way, or just you know, not not walking the proper masculine line, um you would hope that the others would brush up on him and he would change his ways, but I mean it could be the opposite where he brushes up on uh everyone else, and then you know, then you you go from having one of these uh one person acting this way to uh you know a few more, and then they go out and it's kind of like that you know the chain letter kind of thing, right?
00:37:09.599 --> 00:37:29.599
Um, so yeah, I think I think something like this would be really good because you know you you one guy hears uh his friend, you know, being honest and open and showing how he thinks, and then you know, okay, well I can add to this and this, this, and before you know it, you're kind of you got a nice snowball going and uh you have good dialogue.
00:37:29.679 --> 00:37:36.800
And I mean, I can't believe like I feel like we've been talking for like 10 minutes and we're almost at 40 minutes, and um it's great, man.
00:37:36.960 --> 00:38:00.239
Yeah, I think that that's um I think uh I mean, obviously, someone as someone with um you know, so man, so many issues in the past from depression and uh anxiety and addiction and that kind of stuff, um counseling and talking and that kind of therapy is really strong, um, especially depending on who you're you're having it with.
00:38:00.400 --> 00:38:10.480
So I think for something like this to figure out, you know, well, what does it mean to be a man and how should how should I actually uh be as a man?
00:38:10.719 --> 00:38:29.760
Not not how maybe a father told me to be or didn't tell me to be, or how maybe I see on TV how it's portrayed or in my favorite movie or whatever, but you know, what feels right and and right for the world and and and right for me and and my soul and that kind of thing.
00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:32.639
So um yeah, I think that would be really good.
00:38:32.719 --> 00:38:42.000
Um, I mean, obviously that's kind of what you've turned your um, it sounds like that's kind of uh a bit of what you've turned your life purpose and life goal into doing, right?
00:38:42.079 --> 00:38:48.400
With your uh with your businesses and your coaching um strategy or not strategies, but your coaching efforts.
00:38:48.719 --> 00:38:53.679
Yeah, and you're giving me chills, Jordan, because you're embodying the very thing I'm projecting all over you.
00:38:53.840 --> 00:39:05.440
But what I'm in the presence of is a man who is really expressing from insight and intuition and inspiration just from a conversation that we're having.
00:39:05.679 --> 00:39:16.639
And what I want to mirror back is there's so much health in what you are expressing that is beneficial to all men, which is being in proximity to brotherhood.
00:39:16.960 --> 00:39:32.320
When we're around other men that are doing the work that do have a pulse on how do I want to bring myself into life that I feel good about, that I feel proud of, that is a man really connected to his nature.
00:39:32.480 --> 00:39:35.840
That's mature masculinity and proximity is power.
00:39:36.559 --> 00:39:40.400
And this is the very reason I created the initiated man.
00:39:40.480 --> 00:39:42.320
It's a school community.
00:39:43.199 --> 00:39:57.440
Is this very reason I've lived in men's circle myself for 10 years, and I've experienced the fruits of being around other men, willing to do their work, willing to be called out, willing to be celebrated, willing to share the vulnerable places.
00:39:57.599 --> 00:40:01.440
And it's completely changed my life and how I show up as a husband and a father.
00:40:01.599 --> 00:40:04.000
It's so satisfying, it's so fulfilling.
00:40:04.159 --> 00:40:07.599
And now I get to have conversations like this with men like you.
00:40:07.840 --> 00:40:22.719
That is my life's greatest joy because I get to have a conversation with a real human being in the moment who cares, who wants to show up, who wants to bring good to the world and do it in a really effective way.
00:40:23.360 --> 00:40:34.000
And the wisdom that I heard in you is brotherhood community is needed for that to happen with the most amount of efficiency.
00:40:34.159 --> 00:40:47.920
And that was a hole that I was seeing in the market, which is why I created the initiated man, is so that men could be a part of the thing that's needed that you described is someone needs to set the culture.
00:40:48.480 --> 00:40:49.119
Yes.
00:40:49.360 --> 00:40:56.079
If someone isn't setting the culture, we will meander and express our shadowy expression of ourselves.
00:40:56.239 --> 00:41:04.719
We will play out what our dad did or said, not that dad's bad or wrong, but if dad's not connected to other men who are also doing the work, guess what?
00:41:04.800 --> 00:41:12.559
We're just being handed down uh the not the least ideal culture that wasn't structured.
00:41:12.719 --> 00:41:30.000
And so what I've had to do is spend decades of my life meandering and seeing the negative impacts of all of that, and then moving myself into an environment where someone decided what the culture was because they had been informed by all of their teachers and mentors and brought me into it.
00:41:30.159 --> 00:41:36.079
Proximity is power, and then I got to experience a new version of myself I hadn't met yet.
00:41:36.320 --> 00:41:55.199
That was exciting, and I had support, I had guidance and someone to hold the tender parts that are afraid and don't know, and then oh, but he knows, and then he knows and guide me through those places so I can feel what it's like to have what I call good father energy bringing me into masculinity.
00:41:55.360 --> 00:41:57.039
That is a culture thing.
00:41:57.199 --> 00:42:04.320
When we are in a culture that is holding us in all our imperfect humanness, we will arrive into the man we're meant to be.
00:42:04.639 --> 00:42:08.320
But someone's got to set the culture, and for me, that's the initiated man.
00:42:09.840 --> 00:42:10.719
Wow, I love that.
00:42:10.880 --> 00:42:11.519
I love that, man.
00:42:11.679 --> 00:42:13.440
Props to you, props to you.
00:42:13.679 --> 00:42:20.880
Um man, I I I have this this bumps going on too, man.
00:42:20.960 --> 00:42:25.920
Like this has been a I'm so glad that we've we finally met and we've had this conversation.
00:42:26.079 --> 00:42:34.639
Um I I I wish we had more time, but I hope that this will be the first of many conversations, Mike.
00:42:34.800 --> 00:42:40.880
Um, I would really like to have you back and tackle some you know more specific topics.
00:42:41.199 --> 00:42:49.039
I I also um I I enjoy the work of uh Scott Galloway.
00:42:49.119 --> 00:42:50.719
Are you into Scott Galloway at all?
00:42:51.199 --> 00:42:53.039
No, not not not familiar.
00:42:53.840 --> 00:42:59.679
He just put out a new book.
00:43:00.880 --> 00:43:02.480
Write his name down though.
00:43:03.360 --> 00:43:04.239
Scott, what?
00:43:04.800 --> 00:43:05.920
Scott Galloway.
00:43:06.079 --> 00:43:07.199
He just put out a new book.
00:43:07.280 --> 00:43:08.559
Sorry, I I can't find it.
00:43:08.719 --> 00:43:12.559
Um but it's uh you know about masculinity and being a man and that kind of stuff.
00:43:12.800 --> 00:43:23.199
He's uh I think he's really big in in tech, uh economics, and uh he's really big with uh masculinity, especially lately with the book.
00:43:23.519 --> 00:43:39.920
So um I'd love to try to get him on, and like I think that if I can get him on, I'd really like you to join me uh if you'd be up for that, because um I think that would you I think you'd be a really great addition to that conversation.
00:43:40.159 --> 00:43:44.239
Um but yeah, definitely check it out and uh check out the book.
00:43:44.320 --> 00:43:47.280
It's I just I recently got it and it's supposed to be really good.
00:43:47.440 --> 00:43:54.480
Um and it's um I think it's called I think it's called Tales of Being a Man or Rules of Being a Man or something like that.
00:43:54.719 --> 00:43:57.039
Um and yeah, I'm really excited.
00:43:57.199 --> 00:43:59.679
So that's why that's another reason why I was really.
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:07.199
Really excited to meet you and talk to you because um yeah, I I really want to start learning more about this topic.
00:44:07.440 --> 00:44:18.480
Um and and yeah, I think it's good to have people that are very knowledgeable, like yourself, um, to kind of have those conversations with.
00:44:18.719 --> 00:44:21.599
So, like I said, I would love for you to come back.
00:44:21.760 --> 00:44:25.199
Um, and I'll definitely gonna be in touch in the near future.
00:44:25.440 --> 00:44:30.559
But before we start wrapping up, I should have I should have asked you this right off the bat.
00:44:30.719 --> 00:44:32.159
I apologize for not doing so.
00:44:32.239 --> 00:44:43.360
I I was kind of just a little excited, but can you just tell us a little bit about yourself, uh, you know, you your different ventures and your podcast and and all that stuff.
00:44:43.519 --> 00:44:51.199
I know you you were bringing it up a little bit there, but please um let everyone know about it because uh I think it's really important stuff.
00:44:51.440 --> 00:44:56.960
And uh now that we've met and we've spoken, um, yeah, I really respect what you say.
00:44:57.119 --> 00:45:03.920
And um yeah, so I think that uh I have no problem kind of getting behind you and and promoting what you do.
00:45:04.079 --> 00:45:05.440
Uh let's just put it that way.
00:45:05.599 --> 00:45:09.440
So please uh let everyone know about uh about your works, my friend.
00:45:09.760 --> 00:45:10.880
Yeah, thanks, Jordan.
00:45:11.199 --> 00:45:12.320
Getting chills again.
00:45:12.559 --> 00:45:19.280
I love just the the easefulness of our conversation and the resonance of the conversation.
00:45:19.360 --> 00:45:33.119
Because for me, the thing that excites me the most is that's always really valuable for people tuning in and listening, is when there's resonance in the room, proximity's power, and I know this will poke and provoke and inspire certain ingredients.
00:45:33.199 --> 00:45:34.960
So if you're listening to this, that's my prayer.
00:45:35.039 --> 00:45:37.280
Is this poked and provoked and inspired something in you?
00:45:37.360 --> 00:45:40.639
And if it did, and there's a resonance, you know, the initiated man.
00:45:41.119 --> 00:45:43.599
Uh, I think you can maybe add links after.
00:45:43.760 --> 00:45:45.599
We can put the link in the description.
00:45:45.760 --> 00:45:54.559
Yeah, or you go, or you go into the school community and just type in the initiated man, and you'll find my school community in there.
00:45:54.719 --> 00:46:05.360
That's a super, it's my lowest entry offer, and I really encourage any man that feels that pull and that call that wants to be a part of a culture to bring you into the most mature version of yourself.
00:46:05.599 --> 00:46:10.000
I very intentionally created the culture in that room for that to happen.
00:46:10.239 --> 00:46:12.960
So if you're interested, you can go check me out there.
00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:15.039
Uh, is this?
00:46:15.199 --> 00:46:16.159
I think this is you.
00:46:16.239 --> 00:46:18.719
It's uh are you it's mikeelliot.com?
00:46:19.119 --> 00:46:19.519
Yeah.
00:46:19.840 --> 00:46:20.480
Okay, cool.
00:46:20.559 --> 00:46:23.119
Let's pull that up real quick for people to see.
00:46:25.519 --> 00:46:28.800
Can they find everything uh at that website as well?
00:46:28.960 --> 00:46:30.159
Are there links there?
00:46:31.199 --> 00:46:35.760
Uh so that one, that's if anyone felt the poll to do one-to-one work.
00:46:36.079 --> 00:46:39.039
That's just that'll pop on a discovery call.
00:46:39.440 --> 00:46:46.239
But uh if you I'll just pop up the private chat if you want.
00:46:46.800 --> 00:46:47.519
Oh, okay.
00:46:47.840 --> 00:47:02.639
Uh, I will uh I'll make sure to include the links uh in the episode descriptions as well for those people who are watching after the fact.
00:47:03.760 --> 00:47:07.119
Uh okay, so if I just put it okay right there.
00:47:09.920 --> 00:47:10.480
Yeah, cool.
00:47:12.239 --> 00:47:19.039
So that's the one that just gives people who uh if they want to get a bit more information on it, that's that.
00:47:19.119 --> 00:47:28.719
And if you're just super stoked and you're just ready to go in and you don't need to read that page, then this is just the direct link to the school school community.
00:47:28.960 --> 00:47:30.880
And I just put in the chat.
00:47:33.199 --> 00:47:37.440
And there's a little video that you can watch there and then uh pop in there.
00:47:37.519 --> 00:47:39.920
And what's cool about it is there's only 15 members in there.
00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:42.159
I launched it a month ago, a month and a half ago.
00:47:42.320 --> 00:47:46.719
So we it's really new and fresh, and that's there's three calls in there.
00:47:46.800 --> 00:47:51.519
So men that join, there's already content uh that they can uh take a look at.
00:47:51.599 --> 00:47:59.840
There's past live recordings to really feel the men that are in there, and you know, men are already being brought to tears in what they're experiencing there.
00:47:59.920 --> 00:48:01.039
So I highly encourage.
00:48:01.199 --> 00:48:04.320
Nice thing about it, it's monthly, so it's super low risk.
00:48:04.719 --> 00:48:06.960
You want to leave, you just leave after a month.
00:48:07.280 --> 00:48:12.400
Yeah, and I'm seeing here that uh you got this a free seven-day trial.
00:48:13.519 --> 00:48:15.519
Yes, or step in, yeah.
00:48:15.599 --> 00:48:16.880
Seven that's what that means, right?
00:48:17.360 --> 00:48:18.400
Seven days, that's right.
00:48:18.880 --> 00:48:19.119
Cool.
00:48:19.280 --> 00:48:20.480
I hope I didn't read that wrong.
00:48:20.559 --> 00:48:22.320
Cool, so that's always nice.
00:48:22.559 --> 00:48:28.639
Um, but yeah, man, I'm definitely gonna be taking a look at this because this is uh this is great stuff, man.
00:48:29.039 --> 00:48:30.880
Yeah, I'm actually glad you pointed that out.
00:48:30.960 --> 00:48:34.719
So we just shifted today, and I actually have to update that link.
00:48:34.800 --> 00:48:41.280
The seven-day free parts gone just because of confidentiality reasons, because we do go vulnerable in there.
00:48:41.840 --> 00:48:51.039
It's the the just a little bit of a protection gate of only paid members go in and see the past live calls because there are things that are being said.
00:48:51.280 --> 00:48:52.159
That's a good call.
00:48:52.239 --> 00:48:53.199
That's a great call.
00:48:53.280 --> 00:48:56.639
Yeah, that are leading to healing and people exposing vulnerable things.
00:48:56.719 --> 00:49:03.599
So we want to make sure it's serious men or who are willing to do the work that can hold that safety because that's where the magic happens.
00:49:03.840 --> 00:49:13.519
So unfortunately, it did change where it's paid right out the gate, but after a month, you know, and if if anyone was really dissatisfied, you just message me, I'll give you your 97 bucks back.
00:49:13.679 --> 00:49:14.960
It's I'm fine with it.
00:49:15.280 --> 00:49:15.920
Fair enough.
00:49:16.480 --> 00:49:17.199
Fair enough.
00:49:17.360 --> 00:49:41.760
I mean, yeah, you gotta do what you gotta do, and um yeah, that that that that's a good call because uh yeah, I'm sure you you have a lot of um uh yeah, like you said, a lot of private stuff, vulnerable stuff, and um, yeah, you don't want that uh you don't want people just jumping in just for the sake of like uh you know something really silly like trolling or something like that.
00:49:42.079 --> 00:49:44.480
You don't want to donate garbage like that.
00:49:44.559 --> 00:49:45.920
So that's cool.
00:49:46.079 --> 00:49:46.559
That's cool.
00:49:46.719 --> 00:49:49.840
And what about uh you also have a podcast though as well, right?
00:49:50.239 --> 00:50:16.320
Yeah, we have a podcast called The Sacred We, and that's specifically where Courtney and I go into lots of discussions about our relationship, the principles that we live by in our own life, and that's for people often who've done a lot of work already, and or it doesn't have to be, but often that's who we attract, and we're we're giving you deep uh principles to live by that live that lead to living a thriving relationship and family.
00:50:16.880 --> 00:50:18.480
Right, that's awesome.
00:50:18.719 --> 00:50:31.039
And um, is she your partner or is she your like um friend or business partner or oh yeah, no, she's my partner, she's my beloved, uh mother of my child.
00:50:31.119 --> 00:50:33.519
I have a son beautiful.
00:50:33.840 --> 00:50:39.199
That's awesome, and so we support couples two to two, and so the I'm only sharing this not to confuse you.
00:50:39.280 --> 00:50:41.440
You know, if you feel the pull, go to the initiated man.
00:50:41.519 --> 00:50:46.239
But the this the podcast is something to go investigate, just like we talked about today.
00:50:46.400 --> 00:50:50.559
Go investigate me, go dig, don't go get like look for my dirt.
00:50:50.800 --> 00:50:55.599
I am human, it exists, and this isn't just information I read in a book.
00:50:55.679 --> 00:51:08.159
There's a lot of men out there who are single talking about relationship and the feminine, it's like, but they're not in relationship with a woman, and so I live it, I breathe it, I practice it every single day while raising a son, the next generation.
00:51:08.320 --> 00:51:12.159
And so my hope is you can feel that there's a depth here.
00:51:12.239 --> 00:51:20.480
There's uh not to sell or pitch you, but I want you to be discerning of who you learn from, who you're mentored by.
00:51:20.639 --> 00:51:23.679
It's super important because it shapes the man you'll become.
00:51:24.639 --> 00:51:28.559
You just you just I thought of one other question before we wrap up.
00:51:28.719 --> 00:51:31.599
Um, because you mentioned, you know, taking advice.
00:51:31.760 --> 00:51:37.599
I think you mentioned, you know, taking advice from people who don't actually have relationships with women and that kind of stuff.
00:51:37.840 --> 00:51:41.599
What are your thoughts on just kind of going back to some of these influencers?
00:51:41.840 --> 00:51:52.719
Um, if you're familiar with uh Nick Fuentes, um he he definitely speaks uh about women and relationships and men a lot.
00:51:52.880 --> 00:51:57.679
Um, and he seems to try to be grappling at uh young men and and and men.
00:51:58.159 --> 00:52:09.760
Um but he's he's been on record, is um, I think even as early the last time I heard him say it was on Piers Morgan uh around Christmas time.
00:52:10.000 --> 00:52:22.800
He said he's never had sex, which is fine, he's Christian, but he also doesn't have seem to have uh much of a track record having relationships with women.
00:52:22.960 --> 00:52:44.400
Um, but he on the other hand, he has seems to have a track record um, you know, having relationships with men, um trans men, uh what what's the uh kitty, um I don't know, like guy, you know, guys who dress up like cats and that kind of stuff.
00:52:44.639 --> 00:53:07.679
Weird relationships like that, which you know, you you do what you do, but um but but he you know he's also on the other hand, he's he's he's going so far to say uh things that even Andrew Tate I've seen him say things like uh it's it's gay to have sex with a woman and that kind of thing.
00:53:07.840 --> 00:53:20.000
And it's like they're just trying to like it's they clearly hate women so much that they're trying to distort this so much, you know, that they're making it not so much about bringing the man up, but just putting the woman down.
00:53:20.400 --> 00:53:23.519
Um so what are your thoughts?
00:53:23.599 --> 00:53:32.639
I guess my question really is what are your kind of thoughts on, you know, we we spoke about Andrew Tate and all that.
00:53:33.280 --> 00:53:50.000
I mean, but he's he's had a past of running camgirl businesses, he's had all these uh lawsuits and charges with uh reference to uh rape and sexual trafficking and all that stuff.
00:53:50.159 --> 00:53:54.559
Uh he you know he's he's always bragging about how he's having sex with women and stuff.
00:53:54.800 --> 00:54:28.159
So but on on the hand here with Nick Fuentes and some of these other people, they're either, you know, sometimes they're somewhat openly gay or just you know, like like you mentioned before, they don't have um, and you can still have relationships with with women if you're gay, obviously, but but uh you know, men that just don't have these these these uh more romantic and and and bonding relationships with women, but they're trying to uh lead men as if they do.
00:54:29.519 --> 00:54:35.760
Yeah, patriarchy exactly patriarchy, it's masculine energy disconnected from nature.
00:54:36.320 --> 00:55:05.039
If if a man isn't embracing, and there's the physiological uh I'm gonna speak to that piece, but I also mean it emotionally, spiritually, intellectually, if a man is not inside of a woman and learning what gets invoked in him in that level of enmeshment of that level, uh, that level of intimacy and learning what that pokes and provokes in him and what she needs to open and want to be penetrated by him.
00:55:05.199 --> 00:55:09.760
If a man isn't in that lived experience, he's disembodied.
00:55:10.159 --> 00:55:15.119
I can't give you advice about the feminine if I'm not intimately relating with the feminine.
00:55:15.199 --> 00:55:16.639
That is patriarchy.
00:55:16.800 --> 00:55:20.000
It's an idea in the head that feels really good to have.
00:55:20.159 --> 00:55:28.480
This is, you know, the version of this is men who read tons of books, really successful in business, but their relationships are all falling apart.
00:55:28.639 --> 00:55:31.280
That is just masculine energy that's disembodied.
00:55:31.360 --> 00:55:41.360
All the energy is up here, it's up really high, it's not in the body, it's up high and it's in vision and it's all this feels good, and it's in the friction, it's in the stimulus.
00:55:41.679 --> 00:55:44.000
But that's just disembodiment.
00:55:44.480 --> 00:55:51.840
The real report card, again, remember is am I creating an environment that's nourishing for me and the people around me?
00:55:52.159 --> 00:55:58.559
If women aren't being related with, attuned to, respected, revered, the report card's gonna be pretty clear.
00:55:58.800 --> 00:56:04.239
It's gonna lead to women putting in reports of being raped and all the things.
00:56:04.320 --> 00:56:06.800
It's just such a disembodied masculine energy.
00:56:06.880 --> 00:56:13.440
And so we need to look at the real life report card of how is this energy going about being in the world?
00:56:13.679 --> 00:56:17.519
If it's not creating a nourishing environment, well, that's a danger.
00:56:17.679 --> 00:56:22.320
That is an under-resourced man, which is a disconnected man, and he's running amok.
00:56:22.639 --> 00:56:24.159
This is called acting out.
00:56:24.320 --> 00:56:32.159
Developmental trauma is all it is, and it's childlike behavior running amok with a lot of power and it's hurting a lot of people.
00:56:32.400 --> 00:56:38.079
If we don't see it for that, we won't be able to bring boundary to it so that it can't run amok.
00:56:38.320 --> 00:56:51.679
The tricky thing is when men have a lot of money, status, and power, they can run amok because power money creates a lot of choice and decision, and then people will want to follow it and be swept away by it.
00:56:51.760 --> 00:56:52.880
And then, oh no.
00:56:53.280 --> 00:56:55.760
Now a whole bunch of people being hurt.
00:56:55.920 --> 00:57:02.000
It takes a lot of strength and power to stand up to that childlike behavior and say, that's enough.
00:57:02.320 --> 00:57:03.599
That's enough.
00:57:04.159 --> 00:57:05.119
That's not helpful.
00:57:05.280 --> 00:57:07.519
It's not helpful for you, it's not helpful for everyone else.
00:57:07.679 --> 00:57:09.840
That behavior needs to stop.
00:57:10.159 --> 00:57:11.679
This is warrior work.
00:57:11.840 --> 00:57:14.159
This is when we go into the movie 300.
00:57:14.320 --> 00:57:27.760
It's the warriors versus the soldiers, it's the men who do their work, refine the medium of brotherhood to get strong enough to navigate their own insecurities, doubts, fears, but learn to listen to the feminine.
00:57:28.320 --> 00:57:35.119
Learn to listen what she says and stand up for up, stand up for the kingdom, stand up for the families.
00:57:35.360 --> 00:57:38.480
And if that isn't happening, we've missed the mark is masculinity.
00:57:38.639 --> 00:57:39.760
That's what we're here for.
00:57:39.840 --> 00:57:42.639
It's not self-interest, it's for service.
00:57:45.519 --> 00:57:46.400
Damn man.
00:57:46.480 --> 00:57:51.360
Well, Mike Elliott, ladies and gentlemen, uh, this was awesome, man.
00:57:51.440 --> 00:57:54.960
Um, I'm really glad uh to have met you.
00:57:55.119 --> 00:57:59.039
Uh, I'm really happy that we did this, and I really hope we can do it again.
00:57:59.199 --> 00:58:03.280
Uh, but before you go, cool, let's do it again.
00:58:04.000 --> 00:58:08.719
Before you go, though, uh, please, one more time, let everyone know where they can find you.
00:58:09.519 --> 00:58:11.760
Yeah, so you know, we gave you the links.
00:58:11.840 --> 00:58:15.440
Uh, if you're feeling the poll and you're a man, you want to join the group, come join the group.
00:58:16.079 --> 00:58:19.199
Experience this, don't just let this be another idea.
00:58:19.360 --> 00:58:26.639
Move into the embodiment, step into the circle, start to feel what it's like to be in proximity of men doing their work.
00:58:26.960 --> 00:58:30.159
And I'd love to see you in there if that's you.
00:58:30.719 --> 00:58:31.679
Right on, man.
00:58:31.840 --> 00:58:35.280
Well, um, I'll definitely be in touch.
00:58:35.360 --> 00:58:38.960
Uh, it was a pleasure to meet you and uh wishing you all the best, my friend.
00:58:39.039 --> 00:58:40.719
Um, we'll talk to you soon, okay?
00:58:41.039 --> 00:58:41.679
Thanks, Jordan.
00:58:41.920 --> 00:58:43.599
Such an honor having this conversation.
00:58:43.920 --> 00:58:45.519
Appreciate you and everyone listening.
00:58:45.760 --> 00:58:46.400
Yeah, man.
00:58:46.559 --> 00:58:47.519
I appreciate you too.
00:58:47.679 --> 00:58:49.039
I I really enjoyed this.
00:58:49.199 --> 00:58:55.039
Um, I actually uh I uh obviously we really were resonating, I think.
00:58:55.280 --> 00:59:09.920
Um, I think this is the first time that I've ever uh associated myself with addiction on the show, and I did so, I just felt like we were jamming, and um, yeah, man, we're keeping it real, and uh I appreciate that.
00:59:10.079 --> 00:59:12.400
So um, yeah, wishing you're all the best, man.
00:59:12.480 --> 00:59:14.639
And I'm again, I'm glad that we got to meet.
00:59:14.880 --> 00:59:16.079
Yeah, me too, Jordan.
00:59:16.239 --> 00:59:16.960
Give me chills.
00:59:17.039 --> 00:59:27.760
Nice job expressing that part because that for me inspires so many other men to embody that level of vulnerability that is inspiring for others, you know, amazing.
00:59:27.920 --> 00:59:41.599
And I think it just goes into what we were saying before, where you know, you throw you kind of throw some something out there and the other person sees it and they they can gain the courage to to throw out a bit more, right?
00:59:41.679 --> 00:59:43.360
So, yeah, that's it.
00:59:43.599 --> 00:59:44.400
Cool, amen.
00:59:45.119 --> 00:59:48.960
And and the and the message goes to you too, Jordan, just so you know, trust your process.
00:59:49.039 --> 00:59:55.440
This isn't trying to pitch or sell you, but if you feel the pull and uh we have our next call this Saturday, just so you know.
00:59:55.679 --> 00:59:56.320
Okay, cool.
00:59:56.400 --> 00:59:57.440
I'll keep that in mind.
00:59:57.599 --> 00:59:59.679
Um, and I'll be in touch soon, my friend.
00:59:59.760 --> 01:00:00.400
One way or the other.
01:00:01.360 --> 01:00:02.000
Awesome, Jordan.
01:00:02.320 --> 01:00:02.960
All the best, brother.
01:00:03.599 --> 01:00:06.480
Yeah, okay, guys.
01:00:06.639 --> 01:00:07.599
That was an awesome show.
01:00:07.760 --> 01:00:08.960
Um, Mike Elliott.
01:00:09.039 --> 01:00:11.360
Uh, I'll make sure to put the links in the description.
01:00:11.519 --> 01:00:12.719
Make sure to check it out.
01:00:12.960 --> 01:00:16.159
Um, yeah, I think that's uh that's about it for now.
01:00:16.320 --> 01:00:20.800
We will have a show tomorrow, uh, probably around 7 p.m.
01:00:20.960 --> 01:00:21.360
Eastern.
01:00:21.440 --> 01:00:25.519
We will have Hadsburg Jolly West back in the house along with Adam from the Truth Desk.
01:00:25.599 --> 01:00:31.280
We're going to be covering some news articles, uh, what's going on in the world and uh whatever is new going on.
01:00:31.360 --> 01:00:36.480
So make sure to be there if you want to participate, throw some stories in there, throw some questions in there.
01:00:36.639 --> 01:00:41.039
Uh yeah, also make sure to check out the Scott Horton Academy.
01:00:41.119 --> 01:00:46.880
Go to Scott Horton Academy.com slash divulgence um because you get a nice little discount.
01:00:47.039 --> 01:00:50.320
And again, I highly recommend the Lifetime membership.
01:00:50.400 --> 01:01:00.239
Uh, it's a little bit more, but you get the discount, and uh it just makes more sense to me because you're gonna get uh unlimited content through the uh lifetime of the school, so yeah.
01:01:00.400 --> 01:01:07.920
Um, other than that, uh we are still trying to get up to 1,000 subscribers on um YouTube.
01:01:08.239 --> 01:01:10.960
So make sure to please subscribe.
01:01:11.199 --> 01:01:16.239
Um, we are also giving away a brand new iPad with a case.
01:01:16.400 --> 01:01:30.880
All you gotta do is subscribe, send the screenshot to divulgence mail at gmail.com, and any referral subs that you get get you five bonus entries, and that that person also gets entered.
01:01:31.039 --> 01:01:40.639
Um, yeah, and we have some runner up prizes as well, probably some books, maybe some uh criterion collection Stanley Kubrick movies or something cool like that.
01:01:40.880 --> 01:01:43.119
Um, but yeah, make sure to subscribe.
01:01:43.280 --> 01:01:48.159
Also, subscribe on YouTube, follow us on Spotify, Apple, wherever you get your podcasts.
01:01:48.320 --> 01:01:59.599
And yeah, please uh I think we're definitely dealing with some uh um manipulation of the algorithms and stuff, and maybe shadow banning and that kind of thing.
01:01:59.760 --> 01:02:01.840
My sub numbers are messed up.
01:02:02.079 --> 01:02:05.519
Um, yeah, it's really uh it's really screwing with me.
01:02:05.599 --> 01:02:11.119
So please give some thumbs up, give some comments to help with the algorithms.
01:02:11.280 --> 01:02:12.559
Make sure you're subscribed.
01:02:12.719 --> 01:02:15.280
If you have more than one YouTube account, please subscribe.
01:02:15.360 --> 01:02:18.079
You can enter the contest as many times as you want.
01:02:18.320 --> 01:02:21.760
Um, yeah, anything you can do.
01:02:21.920 --> 01:02:25.119
Five star on Spotify, Apple, nice comment.
01:02:25.199 --> 01:02:27.440
Anything you could leave would be much appreciated.
01:02:27.599 --> 01:02:33.440
And uh yeah, uh also big shout out to everyone in the chat, in the audience.
01:02:33.599 --> 01:02:34.719
I hope you enjoyed the show.
01:02:34.800 --> 01:02:43.360
We're gonna have a lot more good stuff coming forward um uh near the end of the summer, and we're gonna keep things rolling through the summer uh to keep you guys entertained.
01:02:43.519 --> 01:02:52.159
Um, lots going on right now, though, so it won't be as jam packed as as usual, but uh near the end of the summer, we're definitely going to be picking things up again.
01:02:52.239 --> 01:02:57.039
Um, but I just appreciate everyone's support and um yeah, just sending my love to you guys.
01:02:57.119 --> 01:02:59.760
All the best, be well, and take care.