Speaker 1:
0:20 We'll be right back. I've seen Killillswitch once before.
Speaker 2:
1:30 I've seen him twice actually.
Speaker 1:
1:32 Did you get to see him with Howard or with Jesse? Both times, jesse both times. Yeah, that sucks I like Jesse, but there's just something about Howard's vocals. I don't know. He's a stud Hands and feet beyond anybody, unfortunately including Jesse, and it's not often that you see a band like they go back to their original singer and people miss the guy that replaced him. Yeah, for sure I think it's awesome. But yeah, especially, I want to see Kublai Khan on that tour. Really really bad, they're really popular.
Speaker 1:
2:08 And like they're still kind of on the upswing. It seems like at our age we're seeing bands that are. It was like the other night at the Day to Remember in August Burns Red. You know they're. I won't, I don't want to say they're on the downswing, but like their hype train was what? 10-15?
Speaker 2:
2:24 years ago like definitely.
Speaker 1:
2:26 You know, they weren't, they were still very very good.
Speaker 2:
2:28 They ended on came out in like 2009 or 8.
Speaker 1:
2:32 Yeah, downfall of us all and that was like one of their biggest but kublai khan's one of those bands that are like still on the upswing. I think that's so popular. With the funny thing the other night at that show that we were at, you're like man, I was kind of expecting more kids to be here. I'm like dude, we were the kids, I know. You know, it was just kind of weird to think about it that way.
Speaker 2:
2:56 After I said it, I kind of that's true, and for me it's like a day to remember was such a huge part of like the music I listened to growing up. I don't really realize that not everybody listened to them.
Speaker 1:
3:10 That's fair.
Speaker 2:
3:11 Yeah so.
Speaker 1:
3:13 And then when you're growing up in that crowd and you're listening to that kind of music, you're all talking about it all the time. You don't think about the fact that nobody else was really listening to it other than your clique. Right For sure, the fact that nobody else was really listening to it other than your click, you know, right for sure. But I am here with mr zach caywood and I actually I had a doctor's appointment in peoria today and pulled up the old episode probably for the best, I hope no, it was.
Speaker 1:
3:40 It was a cool episode. It was cool. To reminisce it, it was August time last year. We were leading up to Timberfest, the second one, timberfest 2 Chronicles.
Speaker 2:
3:49 So it's been a little over a year since I've been in here.
Speaker 1:
3:52 Yeah. Yeah, it's not a lot to change down here, just a few more band posters. But you know, right, it comes with the territory. But you had kind of went through on that first episode talked about. You know, grew up in Blandinsville, not too far from here, and played baseball and everything and then once you figured out how to pick up a guitar, you never really looked back, yep.
Speaker 2:
4:19 And it's been a rollercoaster ride ever since.
Speaker 1:
4:20 Yeah definitely yeah, it's been a roller coaster ride ever since.
Speaker 2:
4:24 Yeah, definitely. I've really been rekindled with my love of playing the electric guitar lately because after I got sober from alcohol I started to be able to feel the joy I had um playing guitar again and like I picked it up and I'm like, all right, I'm supposed to be doing this makes sense.
Speaker 2:
4:55 I should have been doing this all along yeah, that's the biggest thing about like getting sober was all the things that I neglected to do because I was doing other things Because yeah, you were partying, yeah, or spending time here or there doing different things.
Speaker 1:
5:13 It's part of it. When did you decide because I partied with you at Timberfest last year, you know yeah, when did you decide that, like, this is what I've got to do, this is what I'm gonna do, and then, and then decided to just go through with it uh, truthfully, I'll just tell a story that kind of like yeah, it's it don't ever at any point, but if any point like I'm stepping on toes or I'm pitching a nerve, just tell me to kick rocks. Dude an, I'm honestly an open book.
Speaker 2:
5:44 I don't really like to hide.
Speaker 1:
5:46 No, and that's one of the things I like about you.
Speaker 2:
5:49 I'm not embarrassed or ashamed.
Speaker 1:
5:51 No.
Speaker 2:
5:52 And I have had those feelings about things about myself before in the past and you know, having like guilt or shame or embarrassment of things that you've done, that's really no way to live. Guilt or shame or embarrassment of things that you've done, that's really no way to live. So but yeah, like I think it was november 23rd would have been the last day I drank okay, so you're talking like two months after timber fest last, yeah, yeah and I was watching sean griffith play music at the golf course.
Speaker 2:
6:26 But the morning before that I had already drank like a whole bottle of whiskey and I got there it was like 1 o'clock in the afternoon. I was really hammered and other things and I like passed out at the bar for a second and somebody there called someone in my family and of course they showed up there to pick me up and take me home and you know that's never a great feeling.
Speaker 1:
6:55 That's not a great feeling.
Speaker 2:
6:56 No, it's one thing if you call your family, member and be like hey I had a few too many, could you?
Speaker 2:
7:04 you know, but when someone else is like come get your boy and then at that time I was still living at my mother's house, you know, and it's like I get dropped off there at my mother's house and it was just like everything just hit me and it's like I cannot do this anymore, like this is not the life that I want to live, right, like this is honestly embarrassing, you know. So, yeah, that was the first, that's all it takes sometimes, uh, yeah, thanksgiving is like my first actual like day, sober, sober.
Speaker 1:
7:44 So that'll be a year that's awesome coming thanksgiving that's not an easy decision to make. I mean, we talked about a little bit of it the other day where you had said that you know, I've that, that you're pretty much doing stuff on your own. Now you know you're playing your guitar, you're doing this and doing that. I was like well, with a lifestyle like this, um, you know you gotta cut ties. Sometimes you gotta sever um certain friendships or certain relationships. You know that probably depended on that being drunk all the time.
Speaker 2:
8:22 Oh, definitely you know the vibe or the group or I can honestly say that, like being an alcoholic, I would choose my friends around like who would let me and they'd be an alcoholic, you know, I mean so now that I'm not, I don't really have the same connection with those people, and that's all right. It's not that I don't care about them anymore, it's just like I'm trying to do other things and go to the bar utilizing that time towards um this sweet ep you're gonna drop, which is yeah, you know, we're gonna try to push a little bit.
Speaker 1:
9:02 No, like he played a couple of tracks for me and I thought it sounded. I thought it sounded legit because you kind of got a vibe to it. That's like I said it's. It's got its parts that are mellow enough to play like at a community center or something like that, and people be like wow, you guys were heavy, you know. But you know it's enough to kind of make those people kind of on the edge of their seat but it's still hard enough to keep. Like the metal hardcore folks like interested.
Speaker 2:
9:30 Yeah, I think it is.
Speaker 1:
9:32 I think it's got a sweet vibe to it.
Speaker 2:
9:33 Honestly, not a lot of actual thought went into writing the songs.
Speaker 1:
9:47 It was more of just like letting whatever came out come out, like like hear a lick or a part, and then build off of that.
Speaker 2:
9:49 Or do you? Um, for the most part, the first thing I do is I choose a speed, yeah, and then I start with a click track and I play until I have like a riff that I like, that I want to start with, and then, honestly, I just keep building from that.
Speaker 2:
10:05 Um, when I'm recording my riffs, a lot of times, like I'll know, the riff is coming to an end of where I want that part to end, so I'll purposely jump to a random spot in the next section to like start, and that sometimes in the next section, to like start, and that sometimes doesn't work out, but a lot of times you end up in a really cool place, yeah, to start, that you might not have started if you were actually thinking about where you want to start, yeah, and so it's like um, happy mistakes, I guess, like sometimes are the coolest parts to tracks. Yeah, like you accidentally play a sour note but it just feeds back just right and it makes a really cool sound like.
Speaker 1:
10:56 I really like that part of making music because that's like really organic, you know yeah, and you've talked about your influences on, on the last podcast, you're, you know you're randy rhodes shredding and then you're, I know, dime bag's a huge, huge influence on a lot of what you like to do, dime bag is definitely my favorite lead guitar player.
Speaker 2:
11:18 James hepfield is probably my favorite guitar player overall. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:
11:24 He's the man. You don't do it for. As long as they've been doing it, then, like not have something figured out.
Speaker 2:
11:30 Right for sure.
Speaker 1:
11:31 You know, and they've gotten by with some interesting songs and albums, but people buy them. So they were just showing videos of that jackass grabbing the ball out of that dude's glove.
Speaker 2:
11:47 What was he? Thinking the hell was he thinking Just the look on his face. He just looked like dumb.
Speaker 1:
11:54 You know, you just look at him and he's just like it's funny when a Yankees fan's down there doing that to a Dodgers player and other Yankee fans are like yelling at him and pulling him off Like you can't do that, dude.
Speaker 2:
12:09 Your own side is telling you you're an idiot, you're an idiot.
Speaker 1:
12:12 Yeah, a lot of times, and that's just life in general.
Speaker 2:
12:17 I've been told that I was usually. They were usually right.
Speaker 1:
12:27 What else you been doing as far as are you still fishing a lot?
Speaker 2:
12:30 no. I haven't been fishing that much. Really. All I have been doing is learning about, like, the recording process. I'm doing a lot of videos and stuff for studios, like trying to figure out how all the equipment works, because there's like so much equipment that comes to like mixing a track Absolutely. You know EQs, compressors, all this other stuff, and I could barely run a computer when I started this demo. I'm not kidding. No no, I hear you. I've only ever had one computer in my life, so and?
Speaker 1:
13:08 if you want a software that's overwhelming, just start trying to find, like the intricate ways you can manipulate a track on a recording software. Yeah, you know it's crazy.
Speaker 2:
13:19 Yeah, I mean I got music out coming out, but it was definitely a huge learning curve to get to that point.
Speaker 2:
13:29 So I think the next album is going to be like I want the next album to be more of like a real album and not a demo that I take, you know, a really good amount of time, like mixing the tracks, mastering, getting the guitar tones that I want, the bass tones, drum sounds, all those things, Because like that's what makes a really high quality good track is sounds that work good together. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1:
14:02 Finding similar tones, but making them sound different in their own way.
Speaker 2:
14:05 Yeah, yeah so it's uh, I really enjoy it and it's one of the only things I've ever really been able to like focus on and pay attention. So I know it's, I know it's something good for me if I can actually pay attention to it and learn about it is it like youtube videos or tutorials?
Speaker 1:
14:24 yeah okay, a lot of youtube videos.
Speaker 2:
14:28 I watch a lot of rick beato videos he's a producer and songwriter and stuff, but his videos are really good.
Speaker 2:
14:36 A lot of information in there. Um, I watch this thing called tone talk. It's got dave friedman and they just talk about guitar amplifiers. They've worked for famous guitarists so they talk about their setups, things like that. I like to watch making albums videos. Periphery has four. I think they're kind of behind the scenes of when they recorded their albums and it's got candid videos. It's cool. It connects you closer to the band. It makes you feel closer to them.
Speaker 1:
15:18 Every band's a little bit different in how they go about it. I remember watching those kind of things on the uh, you know, kind of the behind the scenes of of lincoln park's meteora and shit. They would write hundreds of songs, oh yeah, you know, and they'd only pick like the cream of the crop to choose from. And then they would pick from that. So it makes you wonder, you know, when I hear reworked, remaster, never released, like I don't usually get really excited about it. With most bands I think it's just a like okay, that song sucked enough not to make your first couple albums, you know. So I kind of I kind of ignore it. But when it comes to lincoln park stuff it's like oh yeah, because these guys had what seemed like thousands of songs in the mix.
Speaker 2:
16:05 And they wrote all their songs in the studio too, which is crazy.
Speaker 1:
16:09 Yeah, you know, it really is how they went about doing that. And then we had a difference of opinion about the new chick singer of Linkin Park.
Speaker 2:
16:19 Yeah, yeah, oh, she's pretty good. I'll give it to her, but it just does not sound like lincoln park to me no, and I think that's the weird part, is I?
Speaker 1:
16:38 I think the world accepted that, like we're never gonna hear chester.
Speaker 2:
16:42 Obviously we didn't have much choice, but I don't know man, they can do AI now they can, they could put him up there in holographic form and just.
Speaker 1:
16:52 That's so creepy. He's right there, isn't that creepy as hell?
Speaker 2:
16:55 It is. You're never living in real life again.
Speaker 1:
16:59 You could go on for days talking about the creepiness of AI, oh I know. Go on for days talking about, like, the creepiness of ai, oh I know. Yeah, it's crazy that there's drones and stuff out there with ai that they program to blow themselves up and they're just like nah, I don't feel like doing that today you know, yeah, I mean, I read some stuff on it a couple years ago, so no, I can't point out the exact freaking article, so eat me if you call me out on it.
Speaker 2:
17:24 But but it's going to now all five of you to listen to the podcast I don't know, I just yeah, maybe we have seen too many bad movies about ai, but it just doesn't seem.
Speaker 1:
17:39 It seems too terminator like it's always a robot coming to kill us all. Man.
Speaker 2:
17:46 And I think like technology is advancing so fast, dude, like it's going to be no time, and I think that with people's like mental health too, I absolutely agree, trying to adjust to technology? We cannot. Our brain can't adjust to what's happening around us as fast as it's happening around us.
Speaker 1:
18:10 We're creating things smarter than us, which? In itself is a really weird concept. Yeah, we are creating things to be smarter than us. It'll be the Matrix before we know it. Maybe we're already in the Matrix, maybe we're already in the matrix. Maybe we're already in the matrix, I don't know.
Speaker 2:
18:27 Yeah, you don't want to get me started on this, I kind of do. Everybody will be logging out. Everybody. Get your tinfoil hats on.
Speaker 1:
18:40 It's going to get weird. Mel Gibson's about to put the collar back on.
Speaker 2:
18:47 I don't know. I guess you could call me a conspiracy theorist, but at what point am I just telling the truth here?
Speaker 1:
18:57 I should get you and Steve Moe in the same room talking conspiracy theorist. We'd be here all night. The last time I podcast with him he's just like dude, yeah, it's zach. Zach got a puppy. What that's weird. It's like. Why is that weird? He goes, I don't know it. Just he just randomly got a puppy, was that?
Speaker 2:
19:16 was that part of the?
Speaker 1:
19:17 boy, charlie boy, because he came around not long after the whole decision to go sober.
Speaker 2:
19:25 He did. Charlie's never seen me drunk, which is pretty cool.
Speaker 1:
19:30 That's an interesting motivator.
Speaker 2:
19:33 It is because I don't want to go. So I'll tell you this this is kind of weird. No, not at all. When I lived with my friend, she had a dog and I noticed about her dog like wouldn't like me. She would kind of hide from me, even if I was trying to be nice to it. She just could tell that I was smelling different than I normally would, yeah, and like when I'm sober, she was kind of like I was like one of her favorite people, you know, yep, so that's like one thing. I always do try to pay attention to how the animals respond to me, like my dog and like if I'm not taking care of myself, which means I'm not taking care of myself, which means I'm not taking care of him that well, he starts acting up, Gotcha Makes sense.
Speaker 2:
20:29 And then I know it's like, okay, I need to focus, like I need to take him on more walks or I need to do get out of this house.
Speaker 1:
20:38 He's your therapy dog, or whatever. You know, you know.
Speaker 2:
20:42 And when I do that, it helps me too.
Speaker 1:
20:44 You know he's going through your training program. You know that, in my opinion, is the very definition of a therapy dog oh yeah, he's.
Speaker 2:
20:53 He's my best friend.
Speaker 1:
20:55 Honestly, man, I'd be lost without him well, it gives you something to look forward to coming home. It gives you something to you know. Yeah, you're not just laying on the couch watching tv anymore. You're laying there with your dog right, which you know.
Speaker 2:
21:09 There's just something about that I've been getting in these bones from the pet store. They're like this big, right, right. He ate the entire thing in like 30 minutes today and I'm like how I never had got him one of those and I wasn't sure if he was actually supposed to be eating it or not. But hopefully he was.
Speaker 1:
21:31 I thought it was just something he was gonna chew on for a while, but it was gone we had some piggies for the dogs, like in the last week or so, and yeah, they lasted like a day yeah, I can't make treats or anything last around him. And Cricket it's my new dog. He's still got sharp puppy teeth. I was like, how is your teeth still this sharp after chewing on a damn bone all day?
Speaker 2:
22:02 Yeah, Charlie's also like he's learning how to be a sound engineer too, because I like to mix you start whining. If something's off, I use headphones usually but, for the most part, I mix with studio monitors because I don't like to have headphones on all the time.
Speaker 1:
22:22 Basically, you know I do the same thing when I edit walk around.
Speaker 2:
22:26 I can whatever, but I've noticed like there's some times when I'll be mixing something, I hit just the right frequency or sound frequency. I look over at him and his ears will like perk up, yeah, and it's like all right, I got it, that got it. That's the good stuff right there.
Speaker 1:
22:45 That's the one, Charlie Yep.
Speaker 2:
22:48 That's the take. That's awesome. He just sits there, lights a cigar and he says do another take.
Speaker 1:
22:57 Slow key becoming your like colonel to your Elvis.
Speaker 2:
23:04 No, most of the time I am just like on YouTube and I'm watching, learning stuff, learning, trying to learn man. Uh, I like watching videos with Rick Rubin in them, because he's like my favorite producer. Uh, yeah, I mean, that's what all the great people did. They. So, yeah, I mean, that's what all the great people did.
Speaker 1:
23:29 They found people to like kind of look up to and copy them, yeah, mentors, and kind of set the standard for themselves to see if they could come anywhere close to matching it, or at least try, right yeah.
Speaker 2:
23:43 I think honestly, if you just make something that you actually think is good, right, that's really. And if you genuinely do think it's good, then it doesn't really matter what other people think about it. It's very true.
Speaker 1:
23:59 It's very true. You were kind of talking about that the other night, um headed to the show. Uh, how that kind of correlated with your sobriety as well. As now you're like yeah, I know that when I'm intoxicated I cannot play as well as I do when I'm sober. He goes, my brain tells me I can definitely you know, my brain tells me it sounds freaking awesome.
Speaker 2:
24:21 I mean, I've literally fallen off the stage like drunk before. Yeah, I mean I'm pretty. I was pretty good at hiding how severe of an issue that I had with it. Yeah, have still. I mean that's a but. Um, it is what it is. Everybody has something that's probably holding them back.
Speaker 1:
24:48 You just kind of got any kind of hope that people you know just kind of face it head on like you have you know, because from what I know you haven't been to any like aa meetings. I haven't, but I want to you know you've talked about.
Speaker 1:
25:02 You know, maybe talking to somebody about some stuff, but you know you've never said anything about. You know maybe I need to get checked into this or that. You're just hey, I've got this going on and I'm going to figure it out. You know, you've always been really honest about it.
Speaker 2:
25:17 Yeah, I mean I had a pretty strange childhood, so I do like talk to a therapist for that I just started and it has started to help me. Um, yeah, it's some. That is something I wish I would have done a long time ago, like when I was a kid.
Speaker 2:
25:41 Actually is to go and talk to a counselor figure out how to process some of the stuff I've had trust issues with people for my whole life and like I've never been able to have a healthy back and forth relationship with people because I, um, or that they're gonna like be there for me but then leave. Yeah, um. So yeah, it's just working through a lot and, honestly, just talking about it helps it, does it really does? I mean, I never thought it did all right you know like we were.
Speaker 1:
26:30 You know you grow up.
Speaker 2:
26:32 You know tough it out, man it up rub some dirt in it.
Speaker 1:
26:35 You know which, to an extent, is not toxic? Masculinity, like all right to an extent, you know, teach boys to be men, but like also teach them how to like feel and to think about things, rather than just shove it stiff upper lip, yeah yeah, you know, and I've always been like an emotional person man, my whole life, when I was a kid.
Speaker 2:
26:58 So like if somebody would say like oh, boys, don't cry. Like how does that make a little boy feel if he cries a lot?
Speaker 1:
27:09 Right, yeah. Not great Gives you a complex, Gives you like a yeah, a false sense of what it is to actually be a man.
Speaker 2:
27:19 Sure, that is another thing. Is like I am trying to figure out, like what kind of man that I want to be. It's like I am trying to figure out like what kind of man I want to be, not like what I've been taught men are, because I was taught a bunch of bad things, you know Fighting, drinking and whatever.
Speaker 1:
27:41 Yeah, but that's not really what aligns with my. That's more what I would. I don't think there's anything wrong with being manly. I don't think there's anything wrong about being tough or strong or buff or you know honestly.
Speaker 2:
27:53 For me, I think the most masculine thing a man can do is just be himself. Yep, if he wants to wear pink, he can like if he wants to have long hair, he can like.
Speaker 2:
28:05 That's something to me that's always with my head is like oh, only girls wear pink, boys wear blue. Girls only have long hair. Yeah, girls only wear this type of clothing. It's like, well, who decided that? Right, you know like I want to look at things and say like this is the choice I want to make, not the choice that somebody made a hundred years ago I.
Speaker 1:
28:32 I think in today's world we like walk a very fine line between worrying about being yourself or worrying about what people think is decent or modest.
Speaker 2:
28:46 Yeah, you know For sure.
Speaker 1:
28:48 And you want to be. You know you should want to be a person that can be themselves but still respectable around other people. Right, and I think that you can accomplish that, regardless of you know, everybody has different love. Everybody has different views politically, you, socially, economically, whatever and if you can have those different views from one another without like hating one another, oh yeah, and I think we've lost a lot of that over the years well, it's easy to be mean to people on a computer.
Speaker 2:
29:20 That's a big part of it yeah, and also people get on the computer and they just compare themselves to everyone else. I do it. I mean, a 16 year old girl gets on there on TikTok and she sees all these rich, sure 16 year old girls and she thinks her life is the worst life of all time, yeah.
Speaker 2:
29:43 And it's like dude, your life, life is awesome, but you're comparing it to like something that's not even realistic, not even you know. And I'm not saying that you can't look at those people and possibly have goals of having those things, but if that's all you care about is having fancy stuff or being famous or whatever like, Right, you're missing the mark.
Speaker 1:
30:09 That's a very bad mindset. I would agree with that. There's nothing wrong with being successful, influential, rich.
Speaker 2:
30:22 There's nothing wrong with those things.
Speaker 1:
30:24 I think, if that's what dominates your, if that's what dominates your motivation in your, in your psyche, and like I think when you're willing to hurt other people to get it, that's when it becomes tiresome.
Speaker 1:
30:38 Or hurt yourself in order to get it, yeah, there's nothing wrong with hustling or overachieving or working hard, but like if you are way too hard on yourself or if you're a perfectionist and nothing is right, like you're gonna, you're gonna suffer right yeah, I mean I've always I've been a person that I'm not gonna like compromise my character for money, sure, like I'm not gonna do some, and that doesn't mean I wouldn't do something illegal it just means I wouldn't do something 20 bucks is 20 bucks but um, yeah, like I always ask myself like mostly about what other people are doing, because I see people doing shady shit for money all the time, sure, and I'm like would I do that?
Speaker 1:
31:36 Well, no, I can see how a person would want to do that I know.
Speaker 1:
31:42 Yeah, exactly, and it's like there are times where you have to make a choice and it's like you gotta make the choice that's gonna help you sleep at night exactly regardless, regardless of what is in your bank account like make sure when you look in the mirror you don't dislike the person that's looking back at you, and that you can get a night's rest knowing that you did something you know, decent that day. Right, you know or maybe not even decent a lot of people try to justify things.
Speaker 2:
32:16 They do, you know, but absolutely by saying oh it's, this is actually really good thing and it's's like come on, You're like just turning it around because you feel bad about doing whatever you're doing. But money makes people crazy.
Speaker 1:
32:38 Reality makes people crazy too, and people nowadays are working really hard to change their realities rather than deal with the one they're living in. I think For sure, man, but we all find ways to get through it. We all find ways to deal with the things we're dealing with, and sometimes it's with a guitar and a dog and sometimes it's with. You know some real world situations that you could have a nearby death experience. You could have had a very negative experience where you passed out somewhere and didn't know where you were or what happened to you.
Speaker 2:
33:16 Or you know, there's all sorts of scenarios out there where maybe you didn't make the best choices and you are, where you are, scenarios you know for me well, I mean for everybody really you know, and you can either make an excuse or you can find a way to work through it that was my biggest thing is, I've always kind of had like a I can't do better, any better than this mentality, yeah, which comes from like a place of I'm scared to go out and do this shit. There you go Straight up. That's where it comes from, and so that's the thing. I'm trying to get out there and play music and actually start living life again.
Speaker 1:
34:04 Well, and doing things that you, you know that you're going to be proud of later yeah, that's.
Speaker 2:
34:11 Even if this demo sucks, I'm always going to remember it because it's the very first one I've ever done on my own right, so it has a lot of, you know, just for that reason, like importance to me and the stuff you were going through while you were writing it you know, there's no words.
Speaker 1:
34:30 There's no vocals, but like you can feel the raw energy that that you're getting through. You know, just each day, just find a reason to get up and do something. You know.
Speaker 2:
34:40 Yeah, and I mean that is honestly one reason why I wanted to leave vocals off of it, because I do feel like I can talk with the guitar, Like I don't necessarily need to have my human voice on it Someone telling the story for you Exactly.
Speaker 2:
34:58 I do still want to make videos that go along that are kind of themed for each song. That's an idea that I have, but, um, yeah, it's just about like letting the music talk. I don't absolutely. Anybody can listen to it and they can take and interpret it in whatever way they want to I only drink one cup.
Speaker 1:
35:21 I only let myself have one cup a day anymore.
Speaker 2:
35:24 Well, when I quit drinking, I did kind of use coffee as a crutch to get me off of it, because I mean you can drink. If you drink like four pots of coffee, you'll get some kind of buzz. It's not a good thing to do, but like if you're.
Speaker 1:
35:43 It's a much healthier buzz, naturally, then.
Speaker 2:
35:45 Right. So yeah, I mean, I'm only down to one cup a day now I've kicked it back, but I can only handle about one cup a day there is times like if I feel like I need to drink, I will get. I'll go up to the gas station and get coffee.
Speaker 1:
36:00 Yeah.
Speaker 2:
36:01 Because it does help. I think the warmth of it is kind of calming and that's a, like I said, kind of a natural stimulus.
Speaker 1:
36:13 Yeah, it's still which is debatable, you know still not good for you.
Speaker 2:
36:19 Like I know that there's times where I've drank too much coffee because my like nervous system gets all out of whack, like my hands will that's why I have to stay in one. One cup, right, yeah my fingers will get really cold and then my back will be sweating or my chest will. It's really weird.
Speaker 1:
36:38 If I drink too much coffee.
Speaker 2:
36:39 yeah, it just like dysregulates your body like too much caffeine does. I'm like a walking poster child for what not to do, because, like, seriously.
Speaker 1:
36:54 Drink enough coffee for my back my back to sweat.
Speaker 2:
36:58 It's like if I don't live extremely healthy, I just have all these health problems Right Straight up and it's. I hate it, but it's it's teaching me how to live a healthy, healthier life.
Speaker 1:
37:12 Yeah.
Speaker 2:
37:13 And coming from what I came from, like dude when I was 19, 18, like I barely ate food. I lived basically off alcohol and maybe a potato every once in a while. So yeah, I mean now I like to eat healthy food, I like to cook my own food. Right, that's another thing, like what you put into your body man affects so much about absolutely mental health.
Speaker 2:
37:45 It's actually insane, and I mean just like get two plants and water one with water and water, one with beer and see what happens. The one you are with beer isn't gonna be doing too hot no, probably not yeah, so oh, mine's got a taproot that enjoys beer from time to time.
Speaker 1:
38:07 So, yeah, but no, I I get it and like I've been super happy for you in this process, like um, because you'll post from time to time something on social media where you're like you know, I've done this, I've done that, it's helped me cope, and other people can see that and be like okay, you know, see how he's kind of doing his process and can kind of go off of that. But there are some folks out there that are like well, sober's the new thing, you know yeah, and can become obnoxious about it, I know.
Speaker 2:
38:47 And I definitely try not to be that way.
Speaker 1:
38:50 Right.
Speaker 2:
38:52 I don't want to honestly tell anybody what to do with their lives, because I wouldn't want anybody to tell me what to do with mine. All I do is just share my experience, how it has helped me Right, because it has helped me a lot in life. And not everybody is a raging alcoholic and I know that.
Speaker 1:
39:13 Yeah, we had that conversation as well. It was like I've got a buddy in my life who he has won two beers, he has 20, you know, and it's once he takes off, it's like the Daytona 500, you know, oh, I know very well. And you had related to that. You're like, yeah, you know, for me I can have one or two or three beers with dinner or something, and I'm good.
Speaker 2:
39:45 Yeah, see, I'm pretty jealous of that, but I've never been able to be like that.
Speaker 1:
39:50 Right.
Speaker 2:
39:51 I will never learn how to be like that either. Yeah, and I know guys that are like that.
Speaker 1:
39:55 Right, I will never learn how to be like that either. Yeah, and I know I know guys that are like that too. Where it's, you either deal with it in a few different ways, like like you have where you're okay, like I'm not even gonna cross that line, because once I cross that line, we're in it for the long haul oh, it's been a lot of trial and error, like I've tried to quit drinking or be a person who could, like limit it, limit my drinking, and it never gets limited well, the folks I know nowadays that have that mentality and still drink, it's just like they have to know that they've got nothing going on the next day.
Speaker 1:
40:33 They have to know that um.
Speaker 2:
40:37 Oh, it ruins it for me, you know it ruined days. It could ruin a week, right, if I really got after it really partied hard like I could be sick for literally a week.
Speaker 1:
40:50 But most of the guys I know that deal with that are just like you know, I, I. They don't drink during the week because they know that one and two means 20.
Speaker 2:
40:58 Yeah.
Speaker 1:
40:58 You know and and I get that, and I can be that guy too, I I'll, I'll roll for 20 or whatever, but like I can also flip into that mode where I've got to work tomorrow, I've got stuff going on. I got to do something with the girls.
Speaker 2:
41:14 It's like, okay, you only need a couple and then you're, you're done, like I fortunately have that switch yeah, you're lucky because, like for me, it's like I want to push the limits of everything, everything, every single thing that I do, so I'll. I'll be thinking like here's an example like I might drink like six beers and feel okay to go to work the next day, so the next night I would drink seven, the next night I would drink eight, and it's just like it keeps building.
Speaker 1:
41:50 And then the next thing you know, you've got a tolerance and you need 20 beers.
Speaker 2:
41:54 Yeah, I'm drinking 20 beers a night like what no man, but like you just put it in terms of like you were gonna drink 20 pepsis. How ridiculous does that?
Speaker 1:
42:08 sound dude like I couldn't do it. I couldn't drink 20 pepsis. I don't know, it's yeah they. Even if I liked pepsi, I couldn't drink 20 of them, you know no I don't know that I could drink 20 bottles of water in a night. No, you can't drink 20, anything, except for something that's like getting you pretty much. Yeah, that's pretty wild.
Speaker 2:
42:29 It starts to change the way you feel. That's what you get a hankering craving for.
Speaker 1:
42:36 So, like at that point, is it enjoying the beer or just the feeling of being intoxicated?
Speaker 2:
42:42 Yeah, For me it's the feeling Like I could care less to taste it. I get it yeah.
Speaker 1:
42:50 See, and I'm the kind of guy that I can walk into a micro brew and be like, ooh, I want that one, that one, that one, that one and that one. I don't care if I get drunk, I just want to try those beers, because I love beer.
Speaker 1:
43:00 See, I'm not that kind of guy. Yeah, and trust dude, there's so many that I run into where it's like. You know, either I don't like craft brews, I just, if I'm going to drink, I'm going to drink, you know. Oh, I like the taste of them, but it's uh. But at that point you know why. Why are you going to go? Buy nice beer if you can do the same effect for 20 bucks and a 30 rack, you know? Yeah, it's interesting when you think about it that way.
Speaker 2:
43:31 There's only been a couple of times that I've wanted to drink since I've gotten sober, and it's times where I feel really depressed or like, and I'm wanting to use that to feel better and I know that at that point, like if I start drinking, then it's gonna be real bad it's gonna be bad, so I haven't yet.
Speaker 1:
43:54 Uh, hopefully never will I hope you never do not to well I, I'll take that back, like, if one day you want, if you're just like man I wonder what it was like blah, blah, blah. And in it you say to yourself you know what I, maybe you want to be able to responsibly drink a beer or something. I hope that you have the opportunity to do that. But, like, if you never do, if you're just like I know I'm going to taste that thing and it's going to be a 30 rack tonight, then I hope you never do right.
Speaker 2:
44:24 No, you know, I, I can say right now that is what it would be for me and I don't, I don't want to risk it, but that's why I don't do shots, you know, I would, oh man, you know, started on like no, my bad, but it's like I don't like how the shot tastes.
Speaker 1:
44:45 I just want to be manly enough to say I took a shot, you know I like it.
Speaker 2:
44:50 I like the burn of it going down, kind of like, uh, smoking a cigarette.
Speaker 2:
44:58 I like the feeling of inhaling the smoke I love the feeling of sandpaper against my lungs when you're an yeah, when you're an anxious person, it's like you feel empty inside all the time I do, and that's I use beer and cigarettes and all kinds of shit to like not feel empty, and I don't smoke cigarettes anymore either. So that's good, but I didn't know. You gave that up too. Yeah, like five months ago. I haven't had a cigarette for probably five months, wow. So, yeah, I'm doing work, I'm trying.
Speaker 1:
45:37 I've almost gone mental a few times but tried to write some heavy breakdowns instead but this, I'll tell this story and if you tell me to omit it, I will. But you came here last year and I was just like dude, you know, you come to a podcast, you spend your money to come here and stuff, it's whatever. I'll just like dude. You know you come to a podcast, you spend your money to come here and stuff, it's whatever. I'll feed you, I'll give you some beers. What do you want? You're just like well, give me a 12 of, like blue moon. I was like all right, no problem, and we grabbed blue moon.
Speaker 2:
46:05 We had a pretty good time that night yeah, oh yeah, I was already drinking before, but that's the thing you came to the garage and you're like dude, I was so nervous about this podcast.
Speaker 1:
46:15 I've been over at the bar drinking, you know just trying to chill out.
Speaker 2:
46:19 I'm learning how to not get anxious yeah, and cope with that anxiety without exactly and it's been really hard for some situations and I haven't put myself in some situations right still and just forewarning anybody that listens to this.
Speaker 1:
46:39 I have had those conversations with zach like hey, do I need to not have the beer out? Do I kind of not like have have it around? You is because you admitted to me last year when I started putting on the, the dtw production, the metal shows and stuff we did, you were like dude, I really wanted to be there. I just wasn't ready to be back in a bar at that time yeah, no, I definitely wasn't it, it took and that's and that's totally, and I have gone to more shows and stuff and bars.
Speaker 2:
47:09 I mean I really don't go to them because I just don't care for a lot of the music sometimes.
Speaker 1:
47:15 But but even the show we went to the other night because I was like, well, you're riding with us, I don't want to drink around you if you're not cool.
Speaker 2:
47:21 He was like dude, I go to bars all the time, I just don't drink yeah, okay, it's like it doesn't bother me and it's honestly been really good for me, like the first few shows.
Speaker 2:
47:32 I went too sober, I just stood there, you know, feeling awkward wondering how to feel without something there to tell you how to feel yeah, and like I noticed during this last show, I was able to kind of just be a little more free, and even with that, I was feeling more free but also self-conscious at the same time. You know, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:
47:57 Well, at any time you would have told me like, dude, this is too much, and we'd have gotten the hell out of there, like that wouldn't have been an issue at all.
Speaker 1:
48:05 Oh, it was never like overwhelming for me, but like you, never seemed like you were uncomfortable like just being there and being around it, which is which is cool in itself, because then you have found a way to like hang out with friends and family that you know do that kind of thing and and not have to feel like, well, I gotta stay away from them right now I can honestly say it doesn't bother me to be around people that drink.
Speaker 2:
48:33 I mean it would if I saw somebody acting the way that I used to act yeah, you'd have to get away from that. I have been in that situation and it's like you know, the drunk idiot at the bar. We've all been there. I was usually always, and that's another thing I'm noticing. Now that I'm sober and I go places, I I like look around and I'm like there's really not that many people in here that are like drunk.
Speaker 1:
49:00 Completely hammered yeah.
Speaker 2:
49:01 And I in my mind back then I was thinking like well, everybody's up, like it's a party, you know.
Speaker 1:
49:07 Yeah.
Speaker 2:
49:08 But literally no.
Speaker 1:
49:11 Like.
Speaker 2:
49:11 I'm looking around, there's, you know, a guy or two, that's like they're feeling good, but they're not outside their mind no, and it's just like yeah, I mean, but like for me at the end of my alcoholism, like I would be going into bars and like passing out in bar stools or hitting on people. I shouldn't be hitting on and just like doing crazy things, you know cause, I was just really sad. It's basically all it comes down to.
Speaker 1:
49:47 Yeah, but you, you learn how to process those feelings and healthy ways of processing those feelings instead of dulling those feelings. I think that, especially for me, you know, when I needed pretty much I pretty much needed anxiety meds to get through the day at a certain part of my life and I think once I accepted the fact that the medicine was going to help me cope with the byproduct of my anxiety but it wasn't going to help me fix my anxiety as far as like yeah, you can numb like my nerves to a certain extent, but the reason I'm uncomfortable in this situation is maybe that needs more attention than what I'm feeling right now.
Speaker 1:
50:41 Like, maybe you know, we're also focused on feelings instead of figuring out what's causing the feelings like why do you feel that way?
Speaker 1:
50:48 why, why is the damage there? And not that it's all damage, but like why, why? Why is this part of me here? You know, why do I need to dole that part in order to deal with it? And I'm not saying that's everybody's experience, I'm just saying that was my experience.
Speaker 1:
51:05 Was, um, getting off of anxiety meds was a lot harder than anything that I had done for a very, very long time. Just like I'm feeling this way because of this. Now I need to go deal with it. Now, the reason that they came into my life was because I had small children and I didn't know how to really deal with my anxiety and the things I was feeling at that time and I didn't want them coming home or remembering me as a monster, right. So, like I had to kind of calm down Hulk a little bit so that when, um, I felt like I was ready to come out of that, I could uh, I like Hulk is still there. He's always going to be there. It's just like I'm doing everything I can to just kind of keep them at arm's length, you know, because nothing good ever happens when Hulk comes out.
Speaker 2:
52:02 You ever noticed that? I definitely notice it.
Speaker 1:
52:06 Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:
52:08 I think it's about letting the whole come out in a healthy way Healthy yeah. That's what metal is, and that's one reason it's awesome, I agree no, this has been very interesting conversation.
Speaker 1:
52:22 We bounced around a lot of different places but uh, yeah, it's a it's a lot different from a lot of conversations we've had in the past, because it's like, you know, you're kind of letting yourself go to those places now and and and work through it and deal with it and and you know we all go through that Like you're. You're being open about it and saying that like I'm doing this to do this, and I think that's commendable, because a lot of people are trying to work through their stuff and act like it doesn't exist, right? You know, it's like we all have. We all have our flaws, we all have our um things that we deal with. We all have our quirks that make us who we are, and sometimes we're afraid to show it, um, because of how other people react to that oh yeah, definitely, you know and so we either keep ourselves from going that path or we become something else, sometimes that we're not so proud of, right.
Speaker 1:
53:31 So no, now that you've kind of now that I've pushed this part of myself to the side've like had a passion to do music like this and play guitar sure be loud and just rock the couch.
Speaker 2:
54:02 So I know staying sober is gonna just continue to like help with the music and yeah, I just I am really thankful for the life I'm trying to build and that I've so far been able to build absolutely where can people find this music that you're putting out? Right now it's only going to be on youtube, okay but my page is uh zach zen.
Speaker 1:
54:33 So you've pretty much buried Zach Sabbath and you've reincarnated Zach Zenith at this point.
Speaker 2:
54:40 Yes, I've done a different stage name. I guess you could say and a Zenith is like basically a conclusion, like a magnificent conclusion. There you go, like a magnificent conclusion. So like there you go. I feel like I'm working towards that, like musically to do something.
Speaker 1:
55:02 That's the best thing that I've ever done, you can do, and that brings you enjoyment and excitement. So, no, cool dude, we'll uh, we'll post those up, we'll share those and go check it out on youtube, the zach zena stuff. We'll go ahead and put up some, some links and stuff to that, but no awesome conversation, real conversation. Those are the kind of things that we're going to hear around here a little more often, because, you know, we all got our issues. Yeah, man.
Speaker 1:
55:35 And we all learned how to work through them and if someone hearing your story through this podcast is going to help them with their story, then like this was all worth it at the end of the day. I agree.
Speaker 2:
55:45 And I will say at one point, like I was about to just stop like sharing stuff because there were people that held that against me too, you know.
Speaker 1:
55:56 Yeah.
Speaker 2:
55:57 But the amount of people that have come up to me and said that I've like inspired them in some way has been a lot more, and so I'm just kind of I keep that in the back of my mind Like it means something to somebody.
Speaker 1:
56:14 Absolutely I keep that in the back of my mind, Like it, it means something to somebody. So, absolutely no. I couldn't think of a better place to to end this. So, yeah, go check out Zach stuff on YouTube. Um, Zach's pretty much an open book. So if you hit him up on Instagram or Facebook or something and and you know, want to talk to him about what he's doing, uh, what he's been through, and have any questions for him, you know I'm sure he'll be more than happy to chat with you and we will go from there, Yep, Thanks.
Speaker 2:
56:44 Travis, all right no-transcript.
