17. Vanity

[00:00:00] Denis: On this week's episode, 
[00:00:01] Joe: the most important thing on that bookshelf is that gold thing receipt. That's the receipt on the day. Alana was in the hardware store where I met her. Oh shit. No way. She kept pass around. Yeah. So she bought, she bought the, the keys and that was her receipt. And she found it like a year.
[00:00:17] Joe: That's the day you guys met, or two later. And I, I, that's cool, man. That's 
[00:00:20] Toliy: awesome. 
[00:00:21] Joe: I did it myself. I bought the frame and then I, uh, I set it. She didn't know I stole a, I stole a receipt. She's like, oh. She's like, I found the receipt from that day. I was like, yeah, cool. I stole it. 
[00:00:31] Music: You have to marry fat and then get skinny.
[00:00:44] Mike: All right. So today's topic, Mike, will help me introduce it. It's about vanity. Yes. Uh, Mike, so tell me what, what, what was your question around vanity? Those good. Uh, my question around vanity is, uh, differentiating between what's being vanity and what's not. And I think it's, could be that line is, could be very confusing, you know, um, trying to understand your own reasoning so that you don't have the wrong impression of what's going on.
[00:01:11] Mike: Mm-hmm. And, uh, I was, you know, we had like some examples we were talking about the other day about it and just, uh, trying to figure out what it actually, vanity, I guess means would probably be a, what we think what we all can agree to what it means probably, right? Yeah. Yeah. Define it or whatever, but. The important part of what you were saying is that, uh, we, as we go along the journey of life, I guess Yeah.
[00:01:36] Mike: We tend to find ways to trick ourselves. Yes. And then we become really, really good at tricking others. Yeah. That's why I forgot I said that, but Yeah. Yeah. That was, I think we, yeah. We become very good at tricking ourselves about what we think is vanity and what's not. Yeah. You know, and we like allow ourselves to do shit and, you know, and then not be questioned.
[00:01:54] Mike: Yeah. And then it's, you know, a little dangerous 
[00:01:57] Mike: and justify it. 
[00:01:58] Mike: Yeah. And justify it like in a very good way. Yeah. Give us an example. 
[00:02:02] Mike: Uh, pants. The pants. Yeah. Sweat pants. So I was, uh, telling all that I have a problem. Like I, I buy these sweatpants, like, oh, and these are euro fit, you know? Mm-hmm. So they're tight, and if you wear 'em all day, like the knees get stretched out.
[00:02:18] Mike: And then after like a little while after one day of wearing, they're all like, gross, beefy, and like, I don't like the way they look. Mm-hmm. I'm not comfortable like, uh, with the way they look. So, and then after wearing them one time, have to wash 'em, then the color fades. Right. And then after, like, after like a month, two, three months, whatever, I have to buy new, new ones.
[00:02:36] Mike: So it's like a waste of money. So I went on a mission to like, say that I want to find sweatpants that are solve the problem. And then my impression, it wasn't a vanity problem, but I guess, uh, we started getting into it. We started digging a little bit. We started digging a little bit, 
[00:02:52] Mike: you 
[00:02:52] Mike: know, why I was having a problem with the way the pants like, you know, bunched up and they looked like.
[00:02:57] Mike: Like they were beat up and I felt like I wasn't comfortable with the, with the looks aspect of it. Mm-hmm. You know, the way they looked. So he was kind of justifying that he needs to buy new pants or maybe do research to find new pants, but for what reason? Yeah. Is it, is he is uncomfortable because of what's happening here?
[00:03:12] Mike: Or is it, how is it making them feel inside? Yeah. 
[00:03:15] Joe: Is he it is appearance. It's, it's when you're not comfortable in clothes, 'cause you're in my eyes, it's, you're worried about what people are perceiving of you. You know, do you look like a bomb? Do you have dirty sneakers? Do you, no. Do you look fresh? And when you care about the opinion of others mm-hmm.
[00:03:32] Joe: Uh, that's always on your mind, you know? For sure. Having the freshest gear, like, you know, it could go start from, from sneakers to, to hats the belt, buckles to wallet falling to cars. Yeah. Mm-hmm. But it's mostly materialistic. I, I get it. Get into a lot with Alana. Like, I don't care about my clothes. Like I, she, she kind of pushed me to buy new wardrobe and I'd rather spend my money on other things.
[00:03:58] Joe: Yeah. You know, to me clothes is not important. But to her, she, you know, she comes from a world where clothes is, and it's a state man, and you look chic, you look good, this and that. Yeah. I wear the same outfit every day. A hoodie, jeans. Yeah. Like that doesn't matter. As long as it's cleaned. That's right. You know what I mean?
[00:04:14] Joe: Oh, I don't even care about that part. I don't, I don't either. I don't necessarily either. Unless someone's like, yo, you stink, then I'll throw it. No. Yeah, yeah. Then I'll wash it. But, um. You know, I think that 'cause comes from, um, I mean, I'm not gonna lie, back in high school we were all about the Griffeys, the Jordans.
[00:04:32] Joe: Yeah, sure. We were like, you 
[00:04:33] Mike: remember the Griffeys? The Griffs? Yeah. This is that 
[00:04:37] Tom: the Griff, like, it 
[00:04:38] Joe: was all about like what shoes you got and we tried to fit the part. Like we were trying to figure out, out how to fit in and what mattered, what, what made sense to us. Like what did we value? And it was fitting in, being popular, being cool.
[00:04:51] Joe: Yes. You know, when those things mattered when you were younger. But as you get older, you, you reevaluate what you actually find important. And to me, close is not one of 'em. That's a really specific 
[00:05:03] Tom: thing when you're hey, when your sweatpants just get stretched out and baggy. Well that's why he's saying 
[00:05:09] Mike: that.
[00:05:09] Mike: That's why we're trying to dig a little bit more to see whether or not he's hiding behind this little thing. I get away with it with jeans. 
[00:05:16] Tom: Jeans are really, 
[00:05:16] Mike: really. 
[00:05:18] Tom: Tight. Yeah. He, he was trying to say they've been wearing the same jeans 
[00:05:21] Toliy: for months. That, that because they're not as tight, they're less comfortable.
[00:05:25] Toliy: And in my mind it's like, 
[00:05:26] Mike: like I don't feel comfortable. Yeah. Like, like 
[00:05:29] Toliy: tight cannot to, to, to me like, like it's uncomfortable. Yeah. The more tight is, is the more comfortable. Sure. These shorts may look like senior citizen skirt. Yes. Senior citizen. I got you. Yeah. Thank you. I'm gonna rip you apart, but I can tell you one thing.
[00:05:43] Toliy: Yeah. They're comfortable as hell. Yeah. Like, there's no denying that. Now, if you told me that instead of making them like a sleeve of a wizard, right. You would have to make them like this tight. Mm-hmm. Then they would be uncomfortable. 
[00:05:55] Music: Mm-hmm. 
[00:05:56] Toliy: Right. So it's like at at, so they were using the word comfortable differently.
[00:05:59] Toliy: Yes. He's talking about now he was saying he was gonna be more comfortable when it looks, when it's tight because it looks a certain way. He would be comfortable. Feel comfortable. Yeah. But it's not physically. Yeah. More comfortable. Yeah. Well then I think 
[00:06:10] Joe: you would ask him, like, if you were gonna spend a year in your basement and you had to buy some clothes, where would you go for?
[00:06:17] Joe: That's what I'm saying, you comfortable shit or tight. Yeah. But if it's not that, uh, and it also, part of that equation is how people are gonna look at you. 
[00:06:27] Mike: How have a question, follow up question for that then. 
[00:06:29] Mike: When you guys all get, when everybody gets haircut, do you feel more comfortable? Comfortable? Do you feel like, do you feel better?
[00:06:36] Mike: No. You feel gruel? No. Yeah. See, I'm not sure if I more comfortable like, what's that feeling? Uh, I, that's good question. You know, I, I look at, when I cut my nails, it feels more clean. 
[00:06:46] James: Yeah. 
[00:06:47] Mike: So it feels more clean. So when I get a haircut, I almost have to relate it to feeling more clean. That's how I feel. But, but also, you know what I'm saying?
[00:06:55] Mike: Depends how, how's 
[00:06:56] Toliy: hair you have? Like if, like, like if you're getting a haircut every two weeks, no, but if you're getting a haircut, you know, once a month, once every five, six weeks. Mm-hmm. There's definitely like a, like a physically good feeling to like mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, having a cut. But there is definitely some looks involved in it too, because like you're getting a particular fade.
[00:07:18] Toliy: That's what I'm saying. That's, I think there, there's a level around, right? Yeah. It like that. Yeah. Right. It's a little longer 
[00:07:24] Mike: here. Yeah. Yeah. That's why I say there's a thin line between, like, if I say like, yo, you know what, like these sweatpants, they're no good. Yeah. I'm gonna go buy a thousand dollars sweatpants, but I only make $400 a week a month.
[00:07:35] Mike: I shouldn't be doing that. But if I say, yo, these are whack for X amount of reasons, but I'm gonna go buy a hundred dollars pair and I make a thousand dollars a month. Like, it's not gonna like, ruin my shit. Right? No, but it's the No, but like, so, um, that, those are, those are the questions I'm asking because what, what makes something va your ability because you can't afford it and you're buying it.
[00:07:55] Mike: Uh, no. How, how it makes you feel, feel, even if you make 
[00:07:58] Toliy: more money and a thousand sweatpants are like. $10 sweatpants now. Yeah. If they, if those thousand dollars sweatpants make you feel a particular way, describe that feeling then in internally. So it's not a physical feeling, it's just like a, uh, so 
[00:08:11] Mike: describe, like, how would you describe that feeling?
[00:08:13] Mike: Well, one of, I told you one of the ways that I was bringing that up is, is for example, right? Like if I don't have, you know, the nicest wallet, the nicest back for a girl, for example, she wants, she walks in into the room with a Chanel Louis Vuitton, right. You know, and she's kind of flaunting things. She's feeling certain type of way.
[00:08:27] Mike: Maybe starts being a little more condescending, no, than usual. Then it's like, okay, that bag is making you do something. Or behavior is certain type of way that you really not shooting your behavior. Yeah, it's changing your behavior. That's what I would associate with. But then it's like observing it, right?
[00:08:40] Mike: Who's observing the behavior? The girls in the room. Yeah. Who's about that life? They might say this is normal, like she's flaunting and not flaunting sometimes or whatever. But to us it could, it could be looked at as like, that's arrogant or whatever, or that's condescending or whatever it's, yeah. You know, would be a good 
[00:08:52] Joe: practice, uh, to, to ask yourself is, would you rock a fake Rolex and or a real Rolex and would it matter if you knew like you got a fake one?
[00:09:03] Joe: Does it, does it affect you? Like, would you feel better if it was real or would it also affect you if people found out it was fake versus real, but you just like the look. So it's a $10,000 watch, same replica, looks the same, it was $200. Uh, it works the same, looks the same. It's just not Rolex. So it's obviously not gonna last a lifetime, but for the couple years you wanna rock it.
[00:09:25] Joe: Most people won't recognize it. Maybe a few could, could differentiate. Right? Would you care? If someone could call, call it out. You know? Because to give you an example for me before you answer it, I bought fake Jordans in Chinatown. Right. Canal Street, $50 for the elevens. Yo, you can't buy those for like, you like $500, $400 now in the street.
[00:09:46] Joe: You know, I went, I was like, Jordans $50. I could put 'em on, lace 'em up walk and people, it looked fresh, it looked the same. No one's really gonna question. Uh, I did. And a lot of people were like, yo, nice kicks. I like, I love those Jordans. And I'm like, I would flat out just tell 'em they're fake. And they were like, and they were like, really?
[00:10:05] Joe: I'm like, yeah, these are $50. Because I kind of was promoting the idea of like 
[00:10:09] Mike: mm-hmm. 
[00:10:09] Joe: Like, I'm not about that $400 sneaker game life like I used to. But why 
[00:10:14] Mike: did you buy the Jordans in the first place? 
[00:10:15] Joe: Well, I like the aesthetic of that shoe. I remember Space Jam. See, the 
[00:10:20] Mike: thing is, yeah, 
[00:10:21] Joe: I, I like the style.
[00:10:22] Joe: That's the, 
[00:10:22] Mike: that's where the trickery happens. Yeah. We think that we like something because the population says like, oh, Jordans are hot Uhhuh, and they look a particular way. But like, again, a style thing is, is like a, that's the questionable stuff. Now if Jordan, I mean Jordan, if Joe was born in Antarctica Yeah.
[00:10:38] Mike: Who didn't know, never met Jordans and came into a store and there were Jordans, Iversons and all this other stuff. And he is like, what he look at those No, no, no. That's what I'm saying. If he chose to say like, Hey, I chose Jordan's because the aesthetics actually, he doesn't know nothing about Jordan.
[00:10:50] Mike: Right, right. Then you can't accuse him of the same thing. Yes. However, that's if Joe pre premeditated this whole thing about when I wear those, I know that I'm gonna get attention. Then it makes you feel a certain type of way. That's what I'm saying, certain that line, that dine, like that's a very tricky line.
[00:11:06] Toliy: Yeah, it's a hard line because it's like if you're talking about like, 
[00:11:10] Mike: check this out. Yeah. 
[00:11:10] Toliy: Any, any word around like style or opinions or like, like, and it, it's like you could probably argue all of that. Like if it doesn't have pure utility, right? Yeah. Mm-hmm. You could argue it for vanity, right? Yes. Yeah.
[00:11:23] Toliy: And see 
[00:11:24] Mike: how do you compare that to the same thing where like if Joe does research and he does do research on technology and all this other stuff, and he gets the hottest shit, but nobody in this room ever heard about it. Right? He's not flunking, he's not doing it. He's doing it for the utility purpose.
[00:11:36] Mike: He's buying the most expensive shit. Yeah. If it's util utilities based. Yeah. So then there's not, there's no vanity attached to that because he's not going around showing us like, yo, check out this new guy. Like what the hell the fuck this is? Get away from it, you know? 
[00:11:49] Toliy: Okay. And, and, um, is vanity purely, uh, a, uh, internal thing?
[00:11:57] Toliy: So like, for example, external thing? No, no, no. So like for, for example, if you buy the Louis Vuitton bag or some something, right? And you walk into a room and you are aware that you walk into a room or, or if you have like a real expensive rolling on, right? And you walk into a room and you know that people will feel a certain type of way about it because they know this.
[00:12:18] Toliy: Yes. But you don't. How, how, how, how is that situation going? How's that 
[00:12:22] Mike: possible on time? 
[00:12:24] Toliy: So like for, for example, let's just say Joe bought the Rolex because he's a frequent diver. And like the performance of that watch. Oh, okay. It is necessary. That's what he needs is what he uses. But then he walks into a room with like business people or like his friends or whoever, and I was like, oh shit.
[00:12:39] Toliy: Yo, Joe got a 15,000, but he's not, then he's 
[00:12:42] Mike: not committing a crime of ity. 
[00:12:43] Toliy: No, but but what if he's aware prior to going in that like he knows that this is how society thinks and how society will feel. 
[00:12:49] Mike: Well then if he's choosing the moral comp compass thing, then he has to take them off in that, in that, because he doesn't want to, uh, attract a particular attention.
[00:12:57] Toliy: Yeah. See, like that's also Okay. Well that's why billionaires 
[00:13:00] Joe: dress like, like they got no money. They don't want to give off the appearance. They're billionaire. Well, some of them do, but for the most part, guys, guys that have money don't want to come off looking like they, they're flaunting money because they know what they're gonna attract.
[00:13:17] Joe: Right. This is, this is stuff that than diligence. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And you, you don't wanna, you don't want, don't wanna recruit a girl into your life or friends into your life. 'cause they know that you got something that they could benefit from. Mm-hmm. So you try to dress down, you try to like, just go off of your personality, you know, so you'll like, vanity to them is the opposite vanity for us.
[00:13:38] Joe: You know, we wanna give off the idea that we made it. We're, you know, we're balling, we look fresh, we got style, like it's a, it's a social, you know, acceptance where mm-hmm. All social status are different like. Walking into a club. Like you can't come in looking like that. It's like, oh, it's exclusive in here.
[00:13:54] Joe: Like, I want to dress to get into this club. It's like, I wanna be seen by the people in here. I want to party with these people in here. If that matters to you, like there's a whole world out there that doesn't think about this stuff. I looked it up other countries about 
[00:14:06] Tom: appearance and achievement. 
[00:14:08] Joe: Yeah.
[00:14:08] Joe: Well, for 
[00:14:09] Tom: me, I know with achievement when it comes to like school or reading books, I feel like I, I sort of command a certain respect or a certain level of, uh, of, of, uh, you know, what, how do you put it? Um, he should, he should, uh, respect, you know, just deference or, um, or you, 
[00:14:28] Mike: you have your vocabulary definitely commands.
[00:14:30] Mike: Dec something. Yes, DEC decency. You know, I want, I have an expectation. Give him an opportunity. 
[00:14:35] Tom: I have a certain expectation in a way. 
[00:14:37] Joe: So we, 
[00:14:37] Tom: we got the point when I find that, that's the thing. We, we 
[00:14:40] Mike: hear 
[00:14:40] Tom: you loud and clear when I feel it. Yeah. That's that for me. Should I sit down, sit down on the floor?
[00:14:44] Tom: That, for me is, uh, is for me, it's a reinforcement. When I feel like people, you know, have some sort of respect towards me, and they're not giving me dirty looks or anything like that. Why do you offer 
[00:14:56] Mike: that? Why, why do you, why do you want that? 
[00:14:57] Tom: I think, I think a reasonable amount of it is necessary. But the problem for me is I get caught up when I think too much about that certain why.
[00:15:07] Tom: Why 
[00:15:07] Mike: are you thinking too much of it? Like if you, if you kind of like, why? Because it feels good entitled to it. It feels 
[00:15:11] Tom: good to me. 'cause I feel like it's a good starting point for a conversation with intellectuals. You know, see how he go get your fucking shine box. Go get your 
[00:15:21] Toliy: fucking shine box. 
[00:15:22] Mike: You 
[00:15:22] Mike: see how he did it, Joe?
[00:15:23] Mike: Yeah. What? 
[00:15:24] Toliy: Talking And then look how he just said I'm a creative 
[00:15:28] Mike: is nuts, bro. So it's a good stop. I'm 
[00:15:32] Tom: conversation with intellectual. That's right 
[00:15:34] Mike: Tom, I'm glad you mentioned this and you 
[00:15:35] Tom: are, but it, it is not that at all. It's great. The thing is, I don't think there's a start for a conversation when you're just all self, but you also would 
[00:15:43] Mike: like to start at the top.
[00:15:45] Mike: Yes. He wants to like shake the hand like this, like let him know that he's underneath like this. Yeah, but you hear 
[00:15:51] Joe: the term, fake it till you make it. 
[00:15:53] Mike: Yeah, but I'm not trying back. He made that turn. No. Yeah, yeah. Wait a second. No, wait. Time out. No, he doesn't feel like that at all. He made it. He made it. And he didn't even have the, you guys are under the wrong impression completely.
[00:16:05] Mike: Well, no, he, he, he may feel he's still trying to something, he's still trying to wrap his head around my vanity. 
[00:16:12] Toliy: He may feel that way, but that's not the reality. That is the reality. He said something about this 100%. He said 
[00:16:18] Mike: some serious things in the car. Yeah. D's gonna tell you because I already forgot it.
[00:16:22] Mike: He,
[00:16:26] Mike: but if you take the majority, I would say he has it over majority. What do you mean by that? He's living a better life than most of the Yeah, I'll put it this way for me. He's, I'm just saying hundred 
[00:16:36] Denis: percent. He made a majority. Can I say it? Say it. Oh, yeah, please, please. He was like, I, I asked him, I'm like, yo, he was playing with a Tesla in the back.
[00:16:43] Denis: Mm-hmm. I'm like, do you miss your Tesla? And he goes, um, do I miss being in a, a selfish entitled prick? No. So like, you know, wow. I said, no, of course I miss 
[00:16:55] Tom: it, but I don't miss being a selfish entit. Why 
[00:16:58] Joe: that car made you self selfish? Entitled. That's one, one himself. I couldn't 
[00:17:02] Tom: afford it. I liked it. But you didn't think so, but he would pull, you were saying he knows how to keep, it's not, he doesn't 
[00:17:10] Mike: present that to us.
[00:17:12] Mike: That's why I said the three minutes
[00:17:17] Mike: shirt. You, you guys don't understand. You guys never met Tom outside of what we know as Tom. Yeah. And I don't think out the world. He's out there like doing y Musk thing. Correct? Yeah. Correct. 100% Tom. Yes. Look at the way he dresses. He bullies people mentally out there. Yeah. Tom, is that true? Everybody gets oppressed.
[00:17:34] Mike: Yeah. Yes or 
[00:17:34] Tom: no? Tom? My mind works and is organized in a certain way.
[00:17:40] Tom: My mind 
[00:17:41] Toliy: works in, is organized in, in, in a certain, he 
[00:17:46] Tom: people off vocabulary. But I am currently in the moment trying to tame it. Said he, 
[00:17:50] Mike: he's talking the dictionary so he can shit on people. Lemme an use an example. And people don't even know it. They, they just bowed out to him. 100% yes. Tell or no. That's the thing.
[00:18:02] Tom: I, I focus, know what I'm talking about. Focus through appreciation. I find focus through appreciation. You see, he needs to be appreciated automatically. It helps me focus. 
[00:18:11] Joe: That's, that's he recognize. 
[00:18:14] James: Tell 
[00:18:14] Mike: him, okay, 
[00:18:15] James: you understand what he's saying? So I'm hearing that vanity for some people, provides 'em with validation.
[00:18:21] James: Mm-hmm. Agree. Or what he says it helps them focus for some, it's, that's what I'm getting from that, just in general. Yeah. Validation to the degree equals Yes, but too much it to able function, but too 
[00:18:31] Tom: much, too much vanity. Wait, what? Too much vanity is a little confusing for me. That's the thing. Well, I'm glad that you balance between, I'm like Tesla was, I'm trying to understand, I'm trying to understand at what point do I get imbalance.
[00:18:44] Tom: Yeah.
[00:18:48] Denis: Joe. Joe's shocked. I think we got a new intermission right now. Yeah. 
[00:18:51] Joe: Break. It's fine. Oh, he's around the corner. We, we reset a new, uh, you know, 
[00:18:59] James: a new height, A new level. 
[00:19:00] Joe: Yeah. This is a new world. I mean, we're talking about physical vanity and now it's like mental. Mental. Oh, right. So here's the thing. Here's the 
[00:19:10] Tom: thing for me, my chip on my shoulder is that like, I left my old life behind and then I had these great opportunities like going to YP and then self-studying.
[00:19:18] Tom: So I use all these things to sort of build up a story in my mind of why people should appreciate my a achievement. 100%. And for me, that gets me going. Yeah. It helps me focus, it helps me think about the next thing. Because the narrative Yes. Tells the, tell you to knows how to play in the sandbox. It's the meat and potatoes we offer.
[00:19:36] Toliy: We offer Tom fulltime, employments Save in the chair for $15 an hour, electronic fine. 
[00:19:43] Joe: And he said, no, just sit the chair.
[00:19:49] Tom: But here's the thing, gonna be the chair. Hundred percent. Here's the thing. No, these days sometimes 
[00:19:59] Mike: he's the artist that, huh. Joel. Sick as shit ever. 
[00:20:03] Joe: Yeah, you could, I mean, you think they're trolling you, you troll them. That's true.
[00:20:12] Toliy: He'll be up to, I don't want that. Can you talk, have talk, don't 
[00:20:15] Tom: wanna fight that war anymore. Whereas before I used to go along, it talks through expressions. I used to go along with this shit. I often went along with him because I, but today I don't wanna, I don't want to do it. You know? And, and how do I, how do I do that?
[00:20:29] Tom: Well, I keep myself safe. You know? I think that the thing is, is that you have to actually face the music or whatever, you know, for sure. Understand what it is that's like getting in your way. Mm-hmm. And if it's your sweatpants or if it's like your own ego, then you have to like face it and deal with it.
[00:20:45] Tom: And so for me today it's kind of like, well, I just need to tell myself that like I'm a good person and, you know, do what is necessary. That's kind of what it is. Like I'm not a bad guy. I you off the risk is, is that you do start to bully people. You think need to be in a position to care about your achievements.
[00:21:06] Tom: You think you need to be right in that sense. So you did some good things. Right? But that's not the story I want to tell. I wanna hear my story. Yeah. I wanna hear like how good I did. Yeah. But in, 
[00:21:16] Joe: in a way, like, you know, I don't owe you shit. You know what I mean? Like, I don't, I don't have to, but 
[00:21:22] Tom: if I don't see it, I'm not gonna experience that.
[00:21:24] Tom: Yeah. But if you 
[00:21:24] Joe: demanded that from me, it's not coming. You know what you think It'll, it'll never, it'll never. That's what you think that way, that approach. That's not, 
[00:21:32] Tommy: that's not the way people 
[00:21:33] Joe: think. I know. But that approach will never work on you. Maybe, you know what I mean? Yeah. On me. It will never work.
[00:21:39] Joe: You still feeling cold? We should define I'm okay. Yeah. I about that. Yeah. That should hap Yeah, sure. I think, yeah. 
[00:21:44] Toliy: Like, I wanna know, is it only a, uh, internal fe feeling of how you feel about something? Or, or can you have a awareness about like, how other people might feel about you? So like, what, what, what exactly.
[00:21:57] Toliy: Yeah. You see, that's a good 
[00:21:58] Mike: example of what Joe brought up and before we started recording, uh, about, uh, his girl who's in the model show business, show modeling business. She Yeah. Model. She's a model, right? Uh, when going to those types of events, right? It is important to wear certain type of jeans. Joe doesn't know nothing about them, bought those jeans because he's supporting his girlfriend.
[00:22:18] Mike: He loves her, his, um, fiance. Um, and when he's walking around now, certain people acknowledging him for those genes and saying certain compliments or whatever it is. The, my thing would be before, before those compliments for anything, how's Joe feeling? He doesn't care about it because he is wearing 300 jeans.
[00:22:38] Mike: Then it's not vanity, but as soon as he gets those compliments or people start looking at him a certain type of way Yeah. Right. And he's like, flaunting almost or whatever. Uh, if he starts changing, then I would say, I would call that transition into a vanity. 
[00:22:52] Music: Mm-hmm. 
[00:22:53] Mike: And it's, and then probably I would say that Joe then is gonna start seeking that type of attention.
[00:22:59] Mike: Right. Start buying, investing into those types of things because he likes what he gets. 
[00:23:04] Toliy: So, so, so, because Joe doesn't care about clothing, for example, he's saying that, right? Mm-hmm. And, and stuff like that. It it, there there's no world where it can be still vanity if he's participating in it. Yes. Yeah. 
[00:23:15] Mike: The Joe cannot be inflicted by vanity in the clothing, in the clothing, but doesn't mean it can't be in vanity somewhere else.
[00:23:21] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. There, there's definitely, yeah. You can, you can see the fancy apartment broke or, 
[00:23:26] Joe: yeah. Correct. But for clothes, to me, I, I, I, I realized, you know, that. It's my character, it's my, you know, it's, it's what I bring to the table is what I was gonna attract people with. You know, I realized clothes is superficial in my head and I was, and you know, I'm not looking for people to acknowledge who I am or to characterize me by what I was wearing.
[00:23:47] Joe: It's about like, whether or not you enjoyed me being around. And if you appreciated what I did and who I was. That's the type of like quality I wanted to be accounted for. And when people comment on these jeans, or I'd rather them not know I spent $300 on these jeans. 'cause in a sense, like, I feel like I wasted good money on something.
[00:24:07] Joe: I couldn't, what's, 
[00:24:08] Toliy: you might actually feel like, for example, like in the firefighter house, like if somebody were to find out there, you could almost feel like embarrassed, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
[00:24:16] Joe: What's the matter with you? Yeah, that's not our, that's not like where our, you know, internal morals are, like what we, what we qualify as value, you know, like, and you know, you don't have to be on the same page as everyone, but this is just how I feel.
[00:24:29] Joe: Like there's obviously people out there that, you know, that want, they want certain things and like you said, vanity can be and, and not just clothes, not just appearance. Yeah. You know, it could be on, you know, like Tommy likes to be respected. That's a psychological mental. How about style? 
[00:24:46] Mike: European? Huh? How about 
[00:24:47] Joe: style?
[00:24:48] Mike: Okay. Those jeans. Right? But like, like, yeah. What about style? See, I think the, the answer in this sounds like to me, like, what I'm thinking is that. Like, yeah, like, like style. Let's say you have a house, like do you have a design style here? Is that being vanity? But you don't look at it that way. It's like you live with a certain, like Nki said, everybody's willing to live with a certain amount of sin.
[00:25:07] Mike: Yes. Yeah. And that's kind of like you willing to give yourself the pass on that. He might not give himself the pass on the clothes. I would, yeah. But I might not, I might be like, yeah, I don't really give a fuck about interior design. Mm-hmm. But he'd be like, yo, I'll fuck with interior design. Like, that's important to me.
[00:25:20] Mike: Correct. But that's what I'm saying. There's a internal line for every single person where it's like, if you say, yo actually like, I don't like clothes, but I like interior design and I'm gonna spend $10,000, I don't know, a hundred thousand dollars to remodel on my shit, but you can't afford it, then you're already crossing the line because it's not within your means.
[00:25:37] Mike: Mm-hmm. Correct. Correct. Um, mm-hmm. Well, yeah, I guess you would have to ask yourself an honest questions, like what goal are you trying to accomplish with a particular thing? And then if it's lands, uh, along the lines of for utility, like we're talking about where a thing is providing you a particular purpose that you're looking for, right.
[00:25:55] Mike: Uh, then looks, and all this other vanity stuff doesn't matter. But if it, you craving some other type of attention, uh, through these types of things that you're doing interior decorating, right. When you have guests come over, if you never have guests ever again, then you just, then you can say, then you can say you, you have an express creative, express creative expression.
[00:26:11] Mike: Expression. You know what I mean? Yeah. Tommy would say that. Yeah. Yeah. See, like, but as soon as you, but as, yeah, but as soon, as soon as you, 
[00:26:17] Toliy: yeah. Within that though, like, yeah, I mean like, there's definitely gonna be within all of us then. For the, all, all of our lives. Like there's gonna be doses of, of vanity then like Of course.
[00:26:27] Toliy: Yeah. For sure. But that's the question is what amount are you 
[00:26:31] Mike: willing to live with? Correct. But also important to differentiate because maybe before this conversation, Joe didn't look at Yeah. The house and design as a vanity thing. And now he's like, actually yeah. Like he might look at it that way. Yeah.
[00:26:44] Mike: When you guys all came 
[00:26:45] Joe: over, you're like, wow, wow, wow. And I said, what was the first thing I said? I can't take credit for the way this place looks. Yeah, for sure. This isn't my mm-hmm. This isn't my making, like Yeah. To be honest, you know, would I have done this? As far part looks nice, but again, I, um, I'm just not in that place where that's where my yeah.
[00:27:04] Joe: Value goes. Or like for sure, bookshelf is designed a certain way where colors of the books are all on a certain thing. Like, like you see these paintings, right? Uh, these pictures. Wow. You guys, you made a comment on this. Just nice picture that yours, none of the art mind, the only art I brought in was already thrown out because it wasn't good enough.
[00:27:22] Joe: Like it was what I liked. I bought a poster, I made the frame, I did the cheap version of it, but it went up. And when I looked at it, I go, I really like that, that like, that art, like, yeah. I think he's a good artist. It's my style as a cool look and I put it up. But when we moved here. None of my furniture is here, none of my art.
[00:27:43] Joe: And it's like, whatever. I don't care. Again, I do not care. If you wanna design the whole house and you have a good taste, it makes you feel good, go, go for it. I'll support that. Mm-hmm. But I'm not spending $10,000 on a couch when you could buy, like, you could buy more, you could buy a couch for two grand and you know, you don't have to get the West Elm or the cb, whatever.
[00:28:04] Joe: All those Highend, highend, more high-end things. Like I furnished my whole apartment for like peanuts, like under a G couch. Table chairs. Look at like moving out. Those 
[00:28:17] Denis: things are 
[00:28:18] Joe: over, Joe. Well, I'm just saying, I went for like, you went to the thrift shop. I just, I didn't go like the stuff wasn't gonna, no.
[00:28:23] Joe: So yeah, but I wasn't going for high end shit. But 
[00:28:26] Mike: nonetheless you have a style. Yeah. I mean I, you, you have a good style. You might not have the minimalist somewhere. Yeah. What if you taste for Chi? Got that European best festival you'd be doing the on? No, no, no. What if you go with the thrift shop and you pay $2 for the damn thing, but it's shiny as hell.
[00:28:43] Mike: Yeah. 
[00:28:44] Mike: And it's, you know, there's a lot of glitter and you feel a certain type of way. It makes you feel a certain type of way. Yeah. Like, I guess the question is, is there a lot? Is there. Is vanity, like vanity is okay. If it's okay, what is the criteria to do it where it doesn't? I don't know. Well, here's change your life.
[00:29:01] Mike: Here's how, here's how, how does it change your values? Or like I in the first place, if it doesn't change for the good or for the bad, why, why, why? This is the best. This is 
[00:29:10] Joe: the best way to approach any of these things that you find valuable in your life. If it makes, that's a true statement. If it makes you happy and no one else, it doesn't matter.
[00:29:19] Joe: Yeah. No one will see it. No one will be happy for you. Yes. Or be happy because they see it, it makes them happy if you're doing it for yourself. That's true. Like that you're doing something because it's something you want and you do. And regardless of anyone's reaction, regardless of, uh, people's opinions or if anyone would even see it.
[00:29:39] Toliy: But, but, but do you have to examine that to make sure that that's true? If you wanna live a proper life Yes. The go about it? No. No, but that's why the trick, I'm saying that like, the mind could hurt you saying like, yeah, I got these, like, for me, but like internally, there are like reasons about like, talking about like actually for you, but not really also for, for like you, yeah.
[00:30:02] Toliy: Like, like for example, 
[00:30:04] Mike: buy the Rolex, but nobody will see it. Right. That's what he's talking about. Just it in the Nobody see it. Just wear it in the house. So when you guests come over and you take it off, put it in the box. Yeah. When you go out somewhere, you put it back in the box, but you have a rock and the only person that knows it is you.
[00:30:16] Mike: Mm-hmm. 
[00:30:17] Joe: Yeah. Would, would that, would that change your decision on would you buy it or not? Now, if it does, then you're buying it, you're looking for other people's validation. Yes. You know, and, uh, for me, for example, I'm not on social media not 'cause like, I think social media is bad. Not because I, I don't have an opinion on the fact that like, if you're on it, great.
[00:30:36] Joe: If you're not great, people make comments about the fact that I'm not on it. It almost hold me to like a higher value. Like, oh, it's cool he doesn't have social media. I just rather spend my time doing all this shit. Right. I stay away from it because it's a, it's like another job. Putting, putting effort into, like sharing all this stuff and it's like, it becomes a thing where you're, you know, it, it gets a little overboard for me.
[00:31:00] Joe: I don't have time. I, I have, yeah. Plenty other things to do, but when people look at me and they're like, they value it. I think 
[00:31:06] Mike: he's trying to do the wrist legs. I'll be honest. I think 
[00:31:08] Joe: what you doing, what Tommy's 
[00:31:09] Mike: doing? Well, 
[00:31:11] Joe: I 
[00:31:11] Mike: mean, what is Tommy? Tommy's like a, Tommy's like sophisticated with his language, with his, with his knowledge and, and education.
[00:31:17] Mike: Yeah. Joel is sophisticated in his understanding of knowledge of social media, for example. Sure. He's like the rare breed. 
[00:31:22] Joe: Yeah. But social media, as probably everyone could attest, is like, it's all about showing off and 
[00:31:27] Mike: comparing 
[00:31:28] Joe: myself to others. Yeah. Like I, I have, I have a problem 
[00:31:31] Mike: with sharing, like anything I wanna share, I'm like, why am I doing this?
[00:31:33] Mike: It's like the question comes into my head right away. It's like, yo, like why are you doing this? 
[00:31:37] Tom: Like, why am I, what am I searching for with this? Yeah, yeah. Like, what am 
[00:31:39] Mike: I trying to get? You what, I mean, I have social media, right? I have Instagram, but I never post, nobody posts here. I think really nobody posts here.
[00:31:45] Mike: Okay. Sorry. I follow this very famous Russian guy. You wa you want, so you No, but you too. I engage 
[00:31:53] Joe: in 
[00:31:53] Mike: social media of think. I don't really Well that's good. Yeah, that's 
[00:31:58] Joe: good. I mean, to me, my private life is more valuable to be private and like when people know about things I'm doing or I share information, it's for the, it's more valuable for me to share with close friends and family because to me it's like, if you find out things about me, it's because like, I don't know, you're in the circle or you're, it's, it's valuable.
[00:32:18] Joe: Yeah. And it, I'm, I'm sharing that with you and I don't know, it feels better to, to share rather than it to be public knowledge and like, everyone's just like, oh yeah, that's not interesting. It's, um, it's like, you know, you create a little bit of a mystery. It creates a little bit of like, you know, you're just not a open book for anyone.
[00:32:35] Joe: I'm just not either people like your stuff and then you thrive on that, like, but not even thriving. I also like if I didn't know you, I also think it's creepy that you know stuff about me that. I have no control. I, I 
[00:32:45] James: feel the same way. 
[00:32:46] Joe: Like someone recognize me in the street. Yeah. Yeah. I do have that feeling the same too.
[00:32:49] Joe: Yeah. Someone recognize me in the street because I'm on Alan's Instagram. No way. Yeah, no way. Because they know her. Wow. She has, and they go, you, I know she's a celebrity in the model world, bro. 
[00:32:59] Katherine: The blue check mark next to, she knows a lot of followers, but it freaked 
[00:33:03] Joe: me out. The guy's like you. He's like, you're a firefighter.
[00:33:05] Joe: I was just like, wow. Why do I know you? How do you know this? You're Joe. 
[00:33:10] Toliy: Joe is a gun, gun already. Funny how 
[00:33:14] Mike: life works because Joe's a private 
[00:33:15] Joe: guy but fell in love with the very public public affairs. So I had to like, she, then she asked me, so she knows where I stand with that. So she would ask me, is it okay if I post this?
[00:33:24] Joe: Is it okay if I share this so she knows where I stand? And she'll, she'll say like, and I once said she posted someone to the fire department and go, babe, I don't want that on there. Like, I don't want, 
[00:33:34] Tom: yeah. That's more of a utility 
[00:33:35] Joe: thing. Yeah. I was like, don't put my job, don't put these things. Like I don't want it.
[00:33:39] Joe: I don't want to mix that relationship now, my professional life with, with other things. When I get the now ready, I got a lot of questions. There's 
[00:33:47] Toliy: about 10 to 15 in the chamber 
[00:33:49] Denis: now. Uh, have, how many times have you been with her and you guys got recognized together that No, 
[00:33:55] Joe: that was just that one time from a stranger, from someone.
[00:33:58] Joe: Like thats a wild thing though. Other people, other people recognize her. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. And that's happened a nu a number of times that I'm like, I'm like, wow, this is crazy. Like yeah, we're went to a party. Uh, and some guy walked up and asked for a photo and one guy is like, I have a pho. I have the painting of you up in my house.
[00:34:17] Joe: Like the one that you did this. Wow. No, she has official shit. I mentioned to people, got tattoos up, a friend grew 
[00:34:26] Katherine: to Michaels, got a picture. He's really into fashion and like models and stuff like that. And I mentioned like, Hey Mike. Um, I, um, Joe and Alana were over. Mm-hmm. I told him who, who she was and he knew instantly who she was.
[00:34:41] Katherine: He was like obsessed because he's in the gate. And I was like, okay, bye. You know, I was like, okay, like what do you want me to do? Yeah. The people. But he was like super into it, a tattoo of her. '
[00:34:49] Joe: cause people get tattoos of this photo that she did. Like, it's like a religious mother, Mary one, and people get that tattooed.
[00:34:54] Joe: Wow. And like she sees the shit on the internet and it's her. So it's weird. It's weird for her, but it's much more weird for me. That must, must That's person. You not 'cause you're the type of person you're, 
[00:35:06] Mike: but some people are after that, that that kind of, uh, the energy you're not Yeah. But that's 
[00:35:10] Joe: also another.
[00:35:12] Joe: Sense of like vanity. That's like Uhhuh, you know? Yeah. Your social media presence, your digital presence. For her it's no's For her, it's, yeah, but see the difference 
[00:35:21] Mike: in Joe's approach, right? He, he values what? Safety. Safety number one. Yeah. He knows what comes with the world 
[00:35:28] Music: freak, though. 
[00:35:29] Mike: He is a little bit maybe paranoid above average.
[00:35:32] Mike: Yeah. Because of the fact that he's probably the job he has like a, like a doomsday thing under his bed. Yes. 100% ak 47, all kind of, yeah, but he values the, he keeps taking up rifles aside from that, so that, that in this particular role will never jump over his safety. He can never jump over it. Sure. For sure.
[00:35:51] Mike: Not department. Yeah. Unless you, unless you guarantee him safety at all times, then I don't know. No, but, but if somebody came, the question 
[00:35:59] Toliy: is though, did, did, did he like pump up his safety numbers? After being with alum? Probably. Yeah. I would say, yeah. I'll tell you. Because now you gotta have like more, uh, more cautious.
[00:36:12] Toliy: I especially 
[00:36:12] Joe: know now that like when I'm walking the streets, it's like, and I'm with her now, I know that there's more of a liability because she's recognizable that some schmuck might come by and maybe do something weirdo. So now my, my alert level is higher. Yeah. If I'm by myself, I'm, I fade into, you know, I fade into dark.
[00:36:32] Joe: Yeah. The dark shower. I'm not gonna get bothered when I'm around her, you know, versus like walking with my sister. Right. Yeah. My sister, I protect with my life. Same thing, but no one is gonna go on an extra step that might be a creep or a weirdo. I didn't look at you. I said that he's a creep or a weirdo.
[00:36:52] Joe: Like, the vibe I got from this guy that knew me was a weirdo creep dude. Oh, there you go. So I didn't like it, you know? And now walking around with her, now that I know that is a thing, so now I'm even higher alert. Mm-hmm. So the safety thing is definitely a factor when people know more value. That's why I like, you know, I just like to be, you know, private.
[00:37:12] Mike: Yeah. I mean, another question comes to mind, but like, she's not like a, like a celebrity like Brad Pitt or Angel Jolie, right? No, no. But there's a world, there's a world that knows her, that knows, knows her. And that world is a very niche world. Yeah. And that that world is what? That van, that's a vanity world.
[00:37:32] Mike: That's super vanity. That's super vanity world. Yeah. So to be famous in that 
[00:37:36] Toliy: world. So do you It's a little, it could be a little creepy. So do you think that vanity? Yes. Well, because 
[00:37:42] Mike: of the, because of the nature of vanity itself. So, so, so vanity. She's not an opera singer or writer. 
[00:37:50] Katherine: Well, can, can you describe it more?
[00:37:52] Katherine: I mean, you know 
[00:37:52] Mike: what I'm saying? No, I'm saying that, but who attends opera? 
[00:37:54] Katherine: Describing it. 
[00:37:57] Mike: Huh? Ines. Yep. Ines. You know what I'm saying? Who attends Vanity? Good guys Like Tommy.
[00:38:08] Mike: No, but Vanity 
[00:38:09] Toliy: is a manmade creation, then it did not exist outside of mankind. Yes, I would say so. Like, for example, people, people became insecure, for example. Yes. Like of how they look. Yeah. Only by seeing how somebody else could look. Right. With enough, like mm-hmm. Makeup and Photoshop and everything.
[00:38:29] Toliy: Right. Like tho those, those bars were created. Correct. And, and because of that, it's like a forever like, uh, sickness, right? I wouldn't say forever value means, but for, for, for a lot of people, it's a forever value, I would say. So value's 
[00:38:42] Joe: getting worse and worse because of how watered down the system is making it.
[00:38:46] Joe: Now we're all, everyone's competing at higher levels now because of how much. You know, you put yourself on the internet. Yeah. Everyone needs to post, but girls are posting pictures of them in their bras and panties. Right. So they're wearing nothing. You swipe. I see people swiping like, you know, and they're just like passing over a photo of a girl, A normal girl that, you know, is, is revealing so much more.
[00:39:08] Joe: Like back in high school we were young, like you didn't see that shit. Like girls weren't revealing themselves, putting themselves on the internet. Like that was like a very, everyone was a lot more sheltered. But now when everyone, let's say like Counterstrike, when we started cheating, we had to cheat to compete.
[00:39:23] Joe: Yeah. We couldn't play with these cheaters unless we cheat. I guess what do we do? We do. At the end of the day, we left. It wasn't fun. It wasn't fun, but like you realize like it just gets word down and word down. And the only way to, to stay in that like fight or in that, you know, that circle is to be with, with them or, or just like, all right.
[00:39:44] Joe: But it's also like, remember you're not back in the 
[00:39:46] Mike: day like to have, first of all, see how do, do you be with them, but 
[00:39:49] Joe: also know 
[00:39:50] Mike: where to 
[00:39:51] Joe: stop? Right Here I'm with all the friends, all these fashion people, all the, like the circles. I'm still attending these parties. I'm still with these people. They look at me and they go, well, he's not a fashion guy, but he's still rocks.
[00:40:03] Joe: Like he's still in the party. He's still interacting with us. You don't need to but to them, you're a weirdo. No, I'm not. That's what you think And don't, I'll be honest with you. Well, that's fine. If they think I'm a weirdo, you are a weirdo. That's fine. 
[00:40:15] Mike: Yeah, no, I'm telling you though. 
[00:40:16] Joe: Yeah, that's okay.
[00:40:18] Mike: Because it doesn't, not saying it's a bad thing. 
[00:40:20] Joe: No, no. It doesn't affect how I think about them or how I feel about myself. You know, if they think I'm a weirdo, then they, I know where they're at. They're at, if they're thinking I'm a widow, 100%. Yeah. 
[00:40:31] Mike: Yeah. And that's actually a compliment Yeah. For me to, to, to, to, to that, to that little, whatever they have going on.
[00:40:37] Mike: Sure. But then you are also a weirdo to the, to the normal society as well, because you've always been kind of outside the box. Sure. Thriver. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? You don't, you don't fit, fit a particular mold. Yeah. Maybe certain things, but yeah. Yeah. Donny fucks you up a little bit.
[00:40:54] Mike: Your boy,
[00:41:01] Toliy: I'll tell you one thing. I, I, I think what you're saying about high school back and they like whatever. Right. You also have to remember that, like, I think at a certain point, first off, talking about taking a high quality picture. This was at like a professional studio, right? You have to go to like the photography store.
[00:41:19] Toliy: Right. If you want some like really high quality image or something, right? Sure. Now it's like. Cameras on phones now are like better than like how, um, real life, how cameras were on these big bulky things. So now it's like camera. No, no, no. I just saying that like everyone has access and take like a sick HD 4K level picture.
[00:41:40] Toliy: That's first off, second off. Like the ability to work on Photoshop, for example. Right. To edit a picture. Yeah. This was like some kind of advanced skill, right? To be able to do all that, know how to work everything. Now it's just everybody has the apps, it's just filters and the average person can do it. So there's way more like, yeah, but also I think we're in high school, we're also not thinking about this shit.
[00:42:03] Toliy: We probably didn't cognize my point is that No, my point is that like, that compounded with how now there's so much like social media and the ability to share it everywhere. Yeah. Like now like the images and everything, like the pressure is higher and higher now than it was before because like there wasn't as much of that.
[00:42:20] Toliy: Yeah. But the pressure for the pressure for what? The pressure I think to conform. No, I think it's the pressure to think. Yeah. Well, I mean for the inkers, but no, I think for everybody, no. To be a part of this, no. 
[00:42:33] Mike: It is becoming a much more difficult with everything to first of all to, to go into the whole perfect beauty, uh, mold.
[00:42:41] Mike: It is becoming very difficult because I think 
[00:42:43] Toliy: it's becoming easier. 
[00:42:45] Mike: No chance. There's everybody's, nobody's doing the work. 
[00:42:48] Toliy: Yeah. But there's more filters, more, more editing. Not real, because looking good. Yeah. But at the end of the day, 
[00:42:55] Mike: you feel like shit internally. So it is speeding up the process of you waking up to the fact that you actually are very unhappy for some, for, for some.
[00:43:02] Mike: Now they've done studies on this probably, I think that's why we have more suicide probably of the younger kids now because of the fact that they feel people depressed everyone online that are on 
[00:43:11] Joe: these apps, they're depressed. And, and, and the people who code these programmers, they talk about, they know that they're sucking these people in and they're making them addicted to, you know, the likes and this and that and like, they know what it's doing with kids algorithm.
[00:43:26] Joe: Absolutely. And it's, it's speeding up the process of realization. Yeah. But everybody's, 
[00:43:31] James: uh, alone together. There was this, uh, book that I wrote that I read, which is a very good thing, I think. Yeah. I think it, it expedites a process, but this lady was talking about, um, it was required reading that everybody's really just on social media to really be together.
[00:43:46] James: Because in reality they all feel alone. Correct. They're trying to express their loneliness together and that's what they're really fighting for. Yeah. But, 
[00:43:53] Toliy: but I feel like lots of stuff this like fitting in this like style looking a certain way. Yeah. People do it, I don't think, because like they really like, like it, but I think that in fitting in, there's a.
[00:44:06] Toliy: A certain level of comfort that it provides your life. People don't want connect, stress, anxiety. I'll give it way belong. I also give you this 
[00:44:15] James: example when I was younger, right? They do luckily, like I was athletic, right? I would do particular things and I was deemed, uh, popular, right? Because I was athletic or because I had hand-me-downs from my brother that were certain brands.
[00:44:29] James: Like I, I was young, I didn't, I didn't know about all this stuff. Right now, I'm considered cool or part of this circle. I didn't, I didn't really care about that or ask for, for any of this. I wanted to like, kind of stay away from that. Like I feel to the degree people start getting molded and, and pressure to a degree.
[00:44:45] James: But I also look at it, what we're saying earlier, like I also think it's like passed down from like a long, long time ago. At a certain point it meant something to a degree and maybe now, no, 
[00:44:57] Toliy: it means something now though. Like not fitting in, being outside the norm. It, it can create a, like a comfort level if you can educate yourself to a certain point.
[00:45:08] Toliy: But for the majority of people not fitting into a certain mold creates discomfort in your day-to-day life. So because of that, you wear certain styles, you look certain ways form you conform. You conform because it creates peace, stability, it prevents you from sticking out like a sore thumb. You're just like.
[00:45:26] Toliy: Part of what people value and what, what people like. But don't you think naturally we're, we're and that creates comfort? It numbs you 
[00:45:32] Mike: out. Yeah. But naturally we're going to, to breaking that. I think we are. I think we are. Yeah. You guys just looking to connect, but they don't know how to express themselves.
[00:45:43] Mike: So they use what's easy. Like it's easy to a person to say, Hey, all nice clothes. Instead of saying, Hey, like this is what your heart I believe in, like that's the root of it. Get to know you. And because people have become, I guess, social retard, it's more like, you know mm-hmm. It become hard to communicate.
[00:45:58] Mike: 'cause you have all these insecurities and whatever. We use what we can to still do something that's very natural for us, which just want to connect and be people and connect to each other. Yeah. But sharing, for me, my 
[00:46:07] Tom: melody was always being prepared, dressed nice for class. That's kind of, that's the thing.
[00:46:12] Tom: But this, this, now I, I learned to let that go. I don't care. I'll wear sweatpants. I go to class. Wearing whatever you wearing, just start doing this. I'm communicating mindfully with what I wear and who I am. Start doing this because you look crazy right now. You, you know what I'm saying? What 
[00:46:30] Mike: you got going on right now?
[00:46:31] Mike: I don't wanna describe the shit on the podcast. You don't have to. I we're gonna have him take a picture of your ass and we're gonna fucking, this 
[00:46:38] Tom: was, this was hanged up on the back of my door. This ripped a shirt. Right. Hung up on the back of my door. The shirt and the pants were given to me by my uncle who received them from my mom's cousin.
[00:46:47] Tom: What you look, you look ridiculous. Yeah. That, that's true though, because if I had a nice car, people would compliment me. If I had nice clothes on, people would compliment me, me, but Well, you get compliment 
[00:46:56] Mike: right now about a nice bite. You don't even have to verbally compliment. The thing is non-verbally 
[00:47:00] Eldar: compliment.
[00:47:01] Eldar: Yeah. 
[00:47:01] Mike: But the thing is, if you are getting complimented, that means there's a world out there of people who recognize those specific things that you have and they form hold 'em to highest steam or high regard. And they form opinions about, and they form opinions. It's like, okay, if this person has this, this is a nice item.
[00:47:18] Mike: Right? And I get to say, therefore you understand what I understand about this nice item. So they categorize you and you kind of like, oh yeah, cool. This feels good. You know what I mean? Like mm-hmm. And it happens to be that that person might have nice shoes too, or they might have the same haircut as you or whatever.
[00:47:33] Mike: For me it's a sort of the next thing. You try to connect off those things, but ultimately that shit fades. I got a haircut the other day. Yeah. I look good. Uh, a couple people maybe gave me a compliment or whatever. Uh, that shit don't last, you know what I mean? And a couple of days I forget that I got a haircut.
[00:47:46] Mike: I started looking crazy. Cath Catherine was the only person who reminds me like, yo, you got a bird nest on your head. Sometimes I don't like Bird Nest. Okay, so what your telling though? So I'm like, because like I'm in my head, just like you are in your head doing some other shit, focusing all this shit, social media or whatever.
[00:48:00] Mike: And a lot of maybe reminds me like your joke. For us it's important to post something, you know, tell you nice outfit. And Kathy, the part of this 
[00:48:06] Tom: outfit that works for me is not even on right now. It's the shoes. That's it. But 
[00:48:10] Joe: what about, okay, cool. What about your talent? So when people go, yo, this kid's sick in basketball, they watch you play, you, you drain, you know, you, you get all these awards, you're in the news.
[00:48:20] Joe: You know, like, you share that with me because you go, you're proud of your accomplishments and you know that. I also think that, well our goal, like our talents are Yeah. When our talents, we practice our talents. I definitely say that. Keep bragging. 
[00:48:34] Mike: And if I'm sharing that kind of stuff, this comes from an arrogant place.
[00:48:37] Mike: Okay. It comes from like showing off or whatever it is and like proving something, you know what I mean? Yeah. But basketball, 
[00:48:43] Toliy: you never do that. Like my, my, no. I shared 
[00:48:46] Mike: it with Joe and Ilia. I did. You guy sent me that Facebook stuff. Like, it was cool. Like I didn't know I was nominated for like a week or whatever.
[00:48:53] Mike: I, I shared that with some friends. And if it 
[00:48:55] Joe: wasn't out there and if it wasn't out there, it wouldn't affect you. Like I 
[00:48:58] Mike: told Elliot. Right. I was like, yo, I'm still busting that ass. What you doing? You know what I mean? Like, look and I shared because someone 
[00:49:04] Joe: took the time to take a picture of you something up.
[00:49:07] Joe: Yeah. It felt nice. But regardless, we know that we know what your ability is and also, yeah. It's not gonna affect you whether or not, 
[00:49:14] Mike: or not. Say one thing I'll say that I I'm gonna throw a sick. You don't mind. Actually no. You should go first ahead. Okay, fine. Good. 
[00:49:21] Toliy: I want to hear Yeah, go ahead. I was gonna say, like, for example, in basketball in basketball's gonna do, I actually like when, like we go play basketball and people because of our looks counts us out.
[00:49:34] Toliy: Whose looks you talking about? Yeah. Thank you. Well, like I'm more athletic. Yeah, but you just wearing like raggedy shit. You don't have nice shoes on. Like, I don't, okay, cool. Yeah. You don't meant to say 
[00:49:48] Tom: that he's fat in your, like some people in
[00:49:55] Toliy: stylish and shit, no. Hundred percent do they style in a particular way? 
[00:49:59] Mike: Yeah, but we already know that that's a gig. 
[00:49:59] Toliy: Okay. But I'm just saying that like, like when you look like that and you're a little bit jacked athletic, people automatically think you're good, you're good, right? Yeah. I actually enjoy it and it definitely.
[00:50:11] Toliy: Get you like the element of surprise you like gets me off a little bit. 100%. Yeah. When we go in there and like, we look like, I don't know, like old Jews or something, right? Right. You can, uh, edit, edit that piece, and we bust people's asses who look athletic and who fit the role we're, and they start arguing and they're confused about what happened.
[00:50:31] Toliy: And I'm watching that unfold. I love that. Like, like it, like, it, it like, it makes me feel like a little kid. Mm-hmm. Is that bad? I, I've seen it happen when elder 
[00:50:41] Katherine: plays and suddenly everybody starts getting really upset because they did not think that this kid was gonna, you know, do what? Yeah. I, I love doing 
[00:50:50] Toliy: that when people are like, like when people put someone on me who's like bad or something like that, and like, they rule me out and then like, I score a lot.
[00:50:57] Toliy: Or like, we're, we're, we're just doing, well how many years ago was this? How many years 
[00:51:03] Mike: ago was 
[00:51:04] Toliy: this? Happens all the time. Is just my, my presence is just known, so it doesn't happen as often, but when we go to like the park, like the bike off and like the kids from like team come and stuff like that.
[00:51:18] Toliy: Mm-hmm. I love that. Like, I love when that happens. 
[00:51:21] Mike: Mm-hmm. 
[00:51:22] Mike: Yeah. 
[00:51:25] Music: Okay. You gonna 
[00:51:25] Mike: say something? You say, Mike? I was gonna say that, uh, like when we play ball, elder is not, I, I mean this is my opinion. Elder is also like, people definitely know he is nice and that he's. You know, nasty. But he never goes around like bragging about and never, he's usually very humble about it.
[00:51:42] Mike: Yeah. You know? So I think that's like a big thing about what he's saying is like, he's not going out there and like, he, he, no, but he'll, 
[00:51:49] Toliy: he'll, he'll, he'll, like, who's guarding? He'll, he'll fucking around on the other team. He doesn't flaunt to like LeBron. He's not showing off. Or how about when he does that thing where, where like he fakes him out or stuff like that.
[00:52:06] Toliy: What?
[00:52:10] Toliy: Fake pass. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That, that fake pass that you're doing. Did that one more time. Yeah. What kind of air pass are you doing over here? I dunno what you talking about. Yeah. That's definitely 
[00:52:21] Mike: a show off thing, right? Yeah. It's a move, bro. It's part of the game. There's certain things that I do in the game that I purposely can embarrass the person on purpose.
[00:52:30] Mike: Yeah. But I have to have a reason for that. So you, that person, you, you wouldn't 
[00:52:34] Joe: embarrass somebody if they didn't deserve it. I try not to. Probably between their legs. I try not to. Yeah. 
[00:52:41] Mike: I try not to. If somebody Yeah. Yeah. Looks like I deserve it. Every flex 
[00:52:45] Katherine: he will flex for sure. Yeah. But I, competitive spirit, my arrogance 
[00:52:52] Mike: won't come from competitive.
[00:52:53] Mike: S Yeah. But it's also because you understand like, uh, he's, I internally don't feel like I, like it's very competitive. You know what I'm saying? To me, there's no, on the other side the person who could really compete and give me that like crazy ass Yeah. Challenge or like challenge, you know what I mean? If I do, I can get, I think, I think competitive and arrogant.
[00:53:13] Mike: Yeah. 
[00:53:14] Mike: Yeah. 
[00:53:16] Mike: To the, where I play, I think it's like kind of enough, you know what I mean? Where I can tame the crazy beast. Yeah. That you see from him. From him. Yeah. 
[00:53:24] Mike: Yeah. 
[00:53:24] Mike: Yeah. I think I have that inside of me too. I have that too. Yeah. Come on. It's competition. Yeah, I do. I do. I used to get very frustrated about it.
[00:53:33] Mike: Yeah. But I used to keep it inside when I used to play with him. Oh, okay. I, I felt nasty. Like I felt anger. Yeah. And I wanted to play. Yeah. But I was like, like, I don't like that feeling. Yeah. I don't like that feeling inside. Like competition is like, to me, I don't understand is a dirty thing. Like when and when it brings to the worst qualities of you.
[00:53:50] Mike: Yeah. When you act outta character, I don't like that. So I try not to compete for sure. But now I learned a different approach with gentlemen. Yeah. And now I actually can compete but not play coming from a dirty place. There you go. Yeah. But you still, and that's what I like that that's what I You still compete with others.
[00:54:05] Mike: Yeah, I compete with others, but Yeah. 
[00:54:07] Joe: But you're not the shit talker. Yes. You're not 
[00:54:09] Mike: like 
[00:54:09] Joe: a, it doesn't go off of like 
[00:54:11] Mike: sometimes yeah, I can talk shit, but not mostly. No. No. Sometimes I do like, I'll, like if somebody like Will is pissing me off. 'cause we play with a lot of rap. You see? That's our world and that's, I guess maybe winning is our vanity.
[00:54:24] Mike: Could be if you're competitive in spirit. Yeah. Like me and totally is. You know what I mean? That's a good point. Where we can be like, you know, yeah. Achieve it can make this a certain type of way. Having 
[00:54:32] Joe: achievements is a, is a way of like showing trophies. You know what I mean? Showing off. It's like, it's like, yeah, I did that.
[00:54:38] Joe: Yeah. 100% things I was able to accomplish. Yeah. Hundred percent. And it's valued in your, in your eyes and maybe like, you know, like he likes tofl on certain things, and it may not be physical, it might be mental or whatever, but like everyone has their own type of trophy to, to shop. Well, they 
[00:54:54] Mike: kind of, uh, I guess energized from Yeah.
[00:54:57] Mike: Their ego. See, but that question is, I guess when is the crossing line in basketball? It's a clear, when you're being playing vanity, like when you're being acting out vanity, it's clear. You become nasty. You start cursing, maybe start being aggressive. Like you clearly cross that line where you're coming outta character mm-hmm.
[00:55:13] Mike: Of who you are and who you want to be. Right? Yeah. Because we, I think some of us are, we in general want to have an identity of who we are and present that to the world and present it to ourselves. Right. And I would 
[00:55:24] Tom: argue we need that. We deserve it. I don't know what you said. Well, to go right back to what I said, we communicate face to face.
[00:55:31] Tom: You know, I acknowledge people like, you know, so finish that thought for good things about that. Yeah. So 
[00:55:38] Mike: I talking about to Yes. I think that in basketball there's a clear line. Yeah. When you cross, when you come out of face. Correct. But when you're going out and shopping, you buy a Louis Bitton purse that you can't afford.
[00:55:50] Mike: Uhhuh, you're not coming out of face in the same way as you are when you're getting angry or aggressive. You come outta the face and like, oh, I'm happy, I'm hype. Like that's a different thing. And I think part, no, I think that if it came out that type of buy that came out, uh, out of that type of, uh, intention, sooner or later there will be a competitive match that somebody's gonna bring you in and you're gonna come outta your face.
[00:56:11] Mike: In the bag industry. In the bag world. Yeah. A hundred percent. Yes. Somebody's gonna do a comparison. Something gonna say what? Something cost? Yeah. I got a better bag. Your, I just pay $500 for that. You just competing right there. Yeah. Yeah. But like I said, but, but initially it only says you next score that point when the game next.
[00:56:28] Mike: You know what I mean? Like that next. Yeah. That's the same shit. That's the same flex. Yeah. But I think those, the init when you're doing the sin of basketball Yeah. Being like a dirty person, like the way I understand it, being dirty, competitive, like maybe cursing, being aggressive, being an asshole. Yeah.
[00:56:43] Mike: Coming out a face of who you think you prefer to be. Yeah. If you prefer to be a certain way, I think it's easier to identify that. But when you go to the store and you buy a purse or a bag or shoes or something, it gives you a happy feeling. It is harder to recognize where the or core of that is, but anger is easier to recognize.
[00:57:02] Mike: No, I actually, I would, I would actually say that in a game of basketball, it is almost expected to be angry in the world of the bags, it's not sure. The rules of engagements are different. They are. Yeah. In basketball, competitive nature brings out dirt. Yes. And people know this. Yeah. So if you step into the basketball court, you start crying about a foul.
[00:57:22] Mike: Yeah. You know what I mean? Like that's, that's, but that's, but that's, you're saying it's accepted, but it shouldn't be accepted. That's, that's a different question. Yeah. But with competition, with competition comes dirt, 
[00:57:31] Joe: competition comes dirt. But it also depends on who you are and how you handle certain things.
[00:57:34] Joe: 100%. 'cause I saw reactions of professional basketball players, let's say Kobe talking about a loss during a playoff game. Mm-hmm. And he's just like, yeah, this is what we did wrong and we need to do better. And, uh, tomorrow we're gonna, we're gonna bring our game. And then you say, ask the same question to LeBron.
[00:57:50] Joe: And he is just like, whatever. But when you know, I don't care. LeBron, I win tomorrow. If I don't win, I'm LeBron James. You know, like it's all about your ego, your attitude. Yeah. Yeah. Your understanding of your competitive spirit. Mm-hmm. Whether you're a gentleman in the sport or not. Yeah. Your sportsmanship, your respect.
[00:58:08] Joe: Like we all have, everyone plays, has a talent. Everyone knows what competition is. But if, whether or not you're dirty or you're disrespectful, and, and that goes for life too. Like if you do certain things the wrong way, where you're there to like, try to make someone feel bad about something. If you're not gonna shake someone's hand after a game, you shouldn't be playing.
[00:58:27] Joe: Well all. 
[00:58:28] Mike: If that guys a rat, 
[00:58:29] Joe: what do you mean? See you putting that Joe? Huh? You putting that ruling? Well, no, but we could hate each other on the court, right? Yeah. We like, 'cause not in the sense where I hate you. I hope you, your life goes wrong. Yeah. But like, I want to beat you in this game. Yeah. And we're enemies on that court.
[00:58:46] Joe: Like we're gonna, we're gonna play hard. That's why that's doesn't stop and end get into real life end. But at the end, after the game's over, we, we shake hands no matter how it ended. Yeah. And then you win props to you. Yeah. If I win, to me that's because 
[00:58:59] Mike: you properly know the rules of engagement. Yeah.
[00:59:01] Mike: Right? Yeah. And that's why I think that Mike, in the basketball sphere, you can almost, if you need to exercise certain type of level of aggression or whatever it is, it is almost permitted. Mm-hmm. Little bit. Right. Where in the world of bags and vanity, it is a lot more blurred and like it's a little bit weird.
[00:59:17] Mike: Yeah. But I don't, you know what I'm saying? But I think most of our world, do you guys think most of our world is in the basketball world or more that world? That world? The, the bags world. The bags. Yeah. I mean, and that's why I would like to un blur those lines. I, I, I, through my years of basketball, any other sport, you guys can probably, anybody who plays any sport hockey Yeah.
[00:59:36] Mike: Soccer, basketball. We know why, why didn't count this guy? Uh, racketball. Yeah. We know like there's rules. Oh, I understand. There's particular rules of how people play, how people shove you or how people trip you, which is permitted, which is dirty, which is terrible, which is not, you know what I mean? So we kind of know the rules of engagement.
[00:59:57] Mike: If it is a lot more defined. Yeah. Yeah. Like I, I feel like I, I'm, 
[01:00:01] Toliy: I'm def Oh, sorry. 
[01:00:03] Mike: It's very, it's like you, you can get comfortable. You could be okay with what's going on. You know what I mean? Yeah. I choose to not play dirty or, or any of that. 'cause like, I don't wanna go to that level. 
[01:00:11] James: You set the 
[01:00:12] Mike: tone. I set the tone myself, I set the tone when I play soccer, like 
[01:00:14] James: people know, then they respect that.
[01:00:16] James: But if 
[01:00:16] Mike: I do, I know I won't get checked because I, everybody else kinda aligns with the same shit if I played a little bit hard, a little bit dirty and stuff like that, you know what I mean? It comes like 
[01:00:24] Toliy: a defense of yourself. That, that, that's what I'm saying is that like, I'm absolutely very competitive and I can definitely go too far.
[01:00:32] Toliy: But like, for example, I have people who guard me and they may or may not know basketball or they may know what, what they're doing, but they may not, and they may, you know, try to shoulder you or try to do those certain things like that one kid was doing that one time. Yeah. And like, I'm like, whoa, like, what's this?
[01:00:47] Toliy: And then it happens once and it happens the second time. Like, all right, like what time it is now I gotta teach, so now I gotta do something back. So as soon as I do that one thing back, they're also surpris like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Yeah, that happened to days ago. You're coming into me every time with your shoulder, like, I'm gonna throw mine back.
[01:01:03] Toliy: So you want to keep doing it? I have no problem playing that game. Like I'm, I'm comfortable with, with it. 
[01:01:09] James: Did he say something at first though? The first time he put the elbow? No. No, no. He did. I was like, wait, what? Like for, 
[01:01:15] Toliy: and then he did it again and I'm like, alright, this is his understanding of like, of how this plays.
[01:01:19] Toliy: This is okay, this is allowed what I'm talking about. Yeah. And, and pick a ball. Everyone knows, like there's no ref, there's no offensive fouls. Right. And there's no ref. Yeah. And there's no offensive fouls. So it's like what he's doing could be defended by like standing straight and you falling down and an offensive foul being cold.
[01:01:37] Toliy: Right. Um, listen, bless you. But, but in, in the world of pick a ball, offensive fouls, everybody knows this does not exist. Like, this just does not exist. So like, to protect myself from continuing this thing, I need to do something back. So I do it back. The person's like, oh shit, okay. I get it. And then it doesn't get done.
[01:01:58] Toliy: But like, so like that I'm intentionally doing that and I know I'm doing something, but still, like, no matter how competitive I get, I definitely, like there's players who play with, who will intentionally try to injure you and try to hurt, um, hurt you Yeah. Out of competitiveness. Right. And I, I definitely have never done that where like, I feel like, okay, like I'm gonna go and like, I'm gonna kick through his legs or something like that.
[01:02:21] Toliy: Or like out, stick out your knees pick or something. Or, or, or like do the one mover people do, right. Like, like, and I'm extremely competitive, but I definitely will not cross that line of doing that. But in my like retaliation back, could they get injured or something like that? Hundred percent. They could.
[01:02:37] Toliy: Hundred percent. But I feel like I'm almost doing that in like protection of myself because like I know that like if I don't do something back. I can't like, like that, like I'm, I'm kind of disrespecting myself in a way. Yeah. 
[01:02:49] Joe: You have certain ethics and moral and 
[01:02:51] Mike: boundary. Yeah. And, and, and, but that's not his best case scenario.
[01:02:53] Mike: He doesn't wanna do this. Yeah. I The solution, he's almost forced for. No, there might be because of the fact that in that particular gameplay, yeah, you have to protect yourself. And that's what he's talking about. But, and 
[01:03:03] James: that is justified, but I think there could have been another What stopped you from mentioning it to him the first time he did it?
[01:03:08] James: Like he, I I hate when people play dirty Personally. Yeah. I, and, and I set the tone when, when I play specifically and naturally some, a lot of times when I play or in soccer and anything, they mutually gimme that respect. So if they give me an elbow, right? And I'm like, oh shit. Right. Naturally I'd be like, yo, uh, that, that was kind of high.
[01:03:27] James: Like you hit, uh, I'm not sure if you're, uh, aware of that, but you know, that was kind of high. Can you watch it? And naturally. Because I already mentioned it to 'em, but most 
[01:03:34] Mike: of the 
[01:03:34] James: time they, they, 
[01:03:35] Mike: yeah, they're not, yeah. Like I, no, they'll be 
[01:03:38] James: No, because they have respect. They'll be like, I, yeah, sure. Cool, cool.
[01:03:42] James: I'm being serious in, 
[01:03:42] Toliy: in my experiences. When someone does it to me, the way I interpret it is that like, if they knew that, like, or like if they have any idea of how to play or what to do, they know that like, that is not allowed and that's not acceptable. So like, I almost feel that like, it is useless to say something to this person because they're the ones comfortable with doing this kind of stuff to begin with.
[01:04:02] Toliy: This is the only language they understand, physic I'm, and I'm like, it worked for me. That's why I'm mentioning it. Yeah. And I'm like, all right. I feel like I gotta speak the same language now. Yes. And that's why I gotta do what I gotta do. And then it stops. 
[01:04:12] James: No, no, I get that to that level. Yeah. But I think what stopped you from, from saying that he assessed him, he saw he is a retard.
[01:04:19] Toliy: Yeah. I, I It's usually, 
[01:04:21] James: but was he sure that he, he wasn't gonna be aware if he actually asked him. We actually, 
[01:04:28] Toliy: that what's called the players will play like that are typically the least skilled ones on the court. Yes. The skilled players', players don't do that. There's, you don't need to do 
[01:04:37] Mike: that. There's certain people you can talk to.
[01:04:38] Mike: There's certain people you need to, I mean, I 
[01:04:39] James: notice sometimes if you, you, you talk to the person, you know, you give 'em that their respect, naturally they're gonna stop it because afterward, now they're aware. Then they're gonna intentionally keep on doing it. Now that's gonna be disrespectful. I, I've noticed that if you check that at the beginning and actually speak with them, they're more likely to not do it because now they're aware.
[01:04:57] James: You's playing with 
[01:04:58] Mike: some gentlemen. No. Yeah, 
[01:04:59] James: no, for sure. I'm 
[01:05:01] Mike: being straight up for sure. Like I hate people dirty. I find myself saying this phrase a lot. I said, oh, we're playing this game. Yeah, I ask that question like, oh, we gonna play like this, and that's it. Now I'm turned on. Yeah, I'm turned on completely different.
[01:05:13] Mike: Now I'm gonna disrespect you. Both offensively or defensively, I'm gonna block you and I'm gonna say some shit about you because you, I'm gonna let you know where you stand Yeah. As a person. You know what I mean? Because if you don't fix that behavior, it's over for you. Because I can, I Yeah, a hundred percent.
[01:05:26] Mike: I then I become the biggest dirt back and trust me, you're not bigger a dirt back than me. After, after I mentioned that. That's how I feel after they met. Because, because I've tapped into competitive nature. To the degree that you never even touched or understood. Oh. You know what I'm saying? 100%. That's how I feel after I mentioned that.
[01:05:42] Mike: Let's 
[01:05:42] James: say they keep on, I'm doing that afterward. I switch and I, and I hate it. I hate being in, in that zone. I really do. I don't like going there. Yeah. Or being in that place. I try to keep that at bay, but after that, that's a sign of disrespect. And I'm like, okay, we can play this game if you, but it's also a thing.
[01:05:56] James: Yeah. But it's also like 
[01:05:58] Toliy: if you're playing with similar people each time. Yeah. Like it's also commanding it, it's, it is also a ma matter of everyone knowing what's allowed and what's not allowed. And for example, someone like the para, for example, right? Like people will yell at him, talk to him, right. Like show him in different ways and he won't ever like, do shit about it.
[01:06:18] Toliy: And people generally know that they could walk over like that, that that's 100% right. So it's like where, where, like if you're not, if, if, if you set those like respect rules, people know that. Like they cannot treat you a particular way. Correct. But the thing is, yeah, I don't 
[01:06:33] Mike: think 
[01:06:34] Toliy: you can like. You can 
[01:06:36] Mike: only meet with impression.
[01:06:36] Mike: What I'm, what I'm saying is that I am not turning the other, my, the other cheek in the basketball court with Scout, for example, right? Yeah, 
[01:06:43] Mike: yeah. 
[01:06:43] Mike: Like you did that. I'm gonna run through you. Yeah. And you're gonna feel what I have. Mm-hmm. I don't, it may not be 
[01:06:49] Toliy: right, but it's the language of those people on speak on the basketball court.
[01:06:52] Toliy: I had the 
[01:06:52] Mike: situation a few days ago with one kid. Yeah. He was the point guard. I dunno if you remember, I think it was Monday. 
[01:06:58] Mike: Yeah, I remember that. It was one kid, he was wearing sweatpants. Yeah. We're running up the court. He has the ball. Mm-hmm. He, I think he's dribbling the ball and I'm next to him and as I'm like, I'm running, but I'm also in the air.
[01:07:11] Mike: He gives me a shove. 
[01:07:12] Mike: Yeah. 
[01:07:13] Mike: And I almost like trip and fall, whatever. I'm like, yo, what the fuck? Yeah. So after the play, I'm like, yo, what the fuck you doing? Yeah. You know, he is like, oh, it's a legal thing. I'm like, what are you talking about? I'm in the fucking air. I'm not touching him. Yeah. I'm not pushing him.
[01:07:25] Mike: Like trying to stop him from scoring. Yeah. And he iss like, no, it's a perfect legal move. I'm like, yo, you push me in the fucking middle of the air. Like, yo man. Like, that's not legal. Like, yeah. What the fuck? You know? Yeah. I was genuinely upset because, because you get hurt. It's fucking stupid, bro. Yeah.
[01:07:38] Mike: Like why I'm much bigger than you, bro. This nigga was like, he was like, James size and skinnier. Yeah. If I fucking run into him, bro, what's gonna happen to him? Yeah. You know, I'm not doing that. So you a little guy. Yeah. Doing this to me is like, yo, what do you think? It's crazy. Yeah. I hate those like snappy fuckers, 
[01:07:54] Toliy: like 
[01:07:54] Mike: Mals, stuff like that.
[01:07:56] Toliy: Yo, these like little like, uh. Chihuahuas. Now Chihuahua are like nibbling on your back. I 
[01:08:02] Joe: think, I think we fell off the topic. The it was tied something to value. I was talking about, he was like, where's that line? And, and, and one part of that I wanted to add to that line was just, you know, you're trying to see where you're towing that line.
[01:08:19] Joe: When is it about, uh, doing something for the wrong reasons? Like I said, doing anything where, you know, you're doing it for yourself regardless if anyone sees it or knows about it. Yes. It makes you happy. That's when you know you're towing. You're not towing the line on like value. You didn't 
[01:08:32] Tom: sell, sell out.
[01:08:33] Joe: Yeah. You, you're doing it because whatever you're doing genuinely makes you happy. Mm-hmm. Regardless of how much it costs, regardless of, you know, if anyone's gonna acknowledge you or you're gonna be put in a certain category of status, it's like gonna go un, un undiscovered. Undetermined. It's gonna make you happy.
[01:08:50] Joe: Yeah. Check this out. 
[01:08:51] Mike: I'm gonna bring an example, life example. Catherine's looking for pillows for our couch. She's been looking for, for these pillows for quite some time. She's been making me feel uncomfortable because of this. Mm-hmm. She probably doesn't know, I didn't speak about it, but maybe she could talk about this a little bit.
[01:09:05] Mike: You know what I. So what's going on is Catherine buys three or four pillows at a time, goes to the store, returns them, goes, buys another three or four pillows at a time, puts 'em down. I'm laying down like, ah, cool, cool. This is good. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Whatever Use, use them and stuff. She's like, ah, now he's a badge.
[01:09:19] Mike: Grabs him. So I'm coming to the house almost every two or three days to new pillows. Yep. I, I just returned actually, not, I'm not bullshit, bro. Tell the story. Yeah. Yeah. I What Even be say, how many times? How many, I 
[01:09:33] Katherine: don't even have the time to go to the store every two or three days. You know 
[01:09:35] Mike: what I'm talking about?
[01:09:36] Mike: How many pillows that we, we've gone through over, over 15 or no. Babe. 
[01:09:40] Joe: Oh baby. 
[01:09:41] Mike: Come on. Say babe, come on. 
[01:09:43] Joe: It's been a lot, but it's not 15. 15. It's 
[01:09:46] Mike: one couch. This size. Couch. It's a huge cap. So it's three, two 
[01:09:50] Katherine: or three on one, two or three another. Do you understand? So what is happening here? Yeah. Like three times what is happening 
[01:09:57] Mike: here, right?
[01:09:58] Mike: It is. Is the juice worth the squeeze? Right. She's stressed out now. Yeah. I am now stressed out because I'm like, what the fuck is happening here? No, I can't, can't. I like when Bill was killed, this shit is comfortable. Velvety feels nice. It's gone. Yeah. Where'd it go? 
[01:10:12] Katherine: What about the last I didn't like the way it looked.
[01:10:14] Katherine: The last one. Oh, thank God we turned, 
[01:10:16] Mike: these are terrible because they're looked nice. Excuse me. But they feel terrible. Yeah. 
[01:10:20] Joe: I just returned a box of pillows the other day. I'm going through the same issue. The girl thing. It's a grill thing, you know what I'm saying? I'm like, yo, can we get what I say?
[01:10:30] Joe: Outfit It's outfits. It's, it's pillows. 
[01:10:35] Tom: No, what I'm saying is that the question I was telling you line is I think between personal enjoyment, personal satisfaction or, and business attention. Is this value worth 
[01:10:44] Joe: the squeezes the question? Well, it's affecting you to now it's, now it's also affecting me.
[01:10:48] Joe: Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Well, so I, I was there like, we 
[01:10:50] Katherine: got this couch because he wanted this couch. 
[01:10:53] Joe: That's fine. Right? Yeah. We want couch. Can I 
[01:10:56] Katherine: make it try to look nice with some nice pillows? 
[01:10:59] Joe: 100%. But I business is gonna take this long. Yeah. So, so maybe to find some good pillows. So let me ask you if this story can relate to a situation or, or you make sense of it.
[01:11:10] Joe: I'm not bothering you. When Alana's getting dressed, let's say she's gonna go for a casting, right? Castings or, uh, you go there, you try on their clothes that they want to see you in, they take pictures, they look yada, yada. It's like you put on a, like a show. Showing up in an outfit is like the main idea of like, I gotta go there looking, look a certain way.
[01:11:30] Joe: I wanna look. So right. She'll go through like 20 outfit changes and ask me my opinion on all of 'em. The shoes, the jacket, the pants, and I don't know nothing about fashion. What I think is fashionable is sexy. It it's, it's like, yes, that looks good. Yes, that looks good. Yes. Well, it looks better either one.
[01:11:49] Joe: So my opinion, yeah, either it doesn't matter or when if I do pick something, she goes, yeah, no I don't. Why don't you put the white shirt on with those white chains? No, that won't go. That's look terrible. Okay. So my opinion also. Is now Val valuable? Yeah. And when, when she asked me at the end of the day, she's gonna go with what she likes anyway.
[01:12:09] Joe: Yeah. So I go, so what is your purpose? So my response, yeah. So then I, I start to get annoyed. She goes, does it look like good? I go, yep. She goes, how about this? Yeah, it looks good too. That's even better checked out. And she's just like, are you even looking at me? I go, does it even matter if I'm, to be honest, I want this process to be over, to be over.
[01:12:26] Joe: I think let's get over with it, because Yeah, I don't see the call 
[01:12:30] Katherine: the pills anymore, bro. Becausecause. We're overwhelmed. We're overwhelmed, and we can't figure it out. So we bring in Yeah, I realize that. Yeah. Um, 
[01:12:38] Mike: I, she, this will, I'm mad, so, but what am I looking at? You know what I'm saying? When it comes to contrast, whether it's contrast, it's, no, we wanna be fucking like ergonomic 
[01:12:53] Joe: blending in.
[01:12:55] Joe: Go ahead. When it comes to a, a problem, we could problem solve, right? So if someone goes Yeah, if she, she comes to me and says, you know, this is, this is what's going on, venting. Oh, this is how you fix that. Yeah. This, this, this and that. I don't want your opinion. Just wanted to tell you vent. Well, like, it's like, so what'd you ask me for?
[01:13:12] Joe: I just wanted to tell you. Like, but there's an issue you saw like, no, no, no. I didn't ask you for that. Yep, that's right. 
[01:13:17] Mike: Oh, you have to ask the question whether or not it's okay to give advice. Yeah, yeah. So then I'm like, what have these conversations for? Like, why you tell me for just so I don't 
[01:13:25] Joe: to tell the wall that Yeah, because you want Yeah.
[01:13:30] Joe: Response. Like I have a feel, like a deep feeling to help the situation. Yes. Figure out that is sympathize with you. You wanna help her outta Yeah. And like, I like Well then like, so, so those scenarios always pop up whether it's like, my opinion's not gonna matter, or if you we're not gonna troubleshoot this.
[01:13:49] Joe: Like, 
[01:13:50] Mike: yeah, what are we doing? What are we doing here? Good. That's a very good question. What are we doing, babe? What are we doing here? Am I just listening and I'm a soundboard? Or am I providing feedback or am I 
[01:13:57] Joe: solving your problem? Yeah. And sometimes, and sometimes when you just do autopilot and you go like this and let the car drive for yourself, you get mad.
[01:14:04] Denis: No. 
[01:14:05] Joe: Well, no. Not if they know the rules. No. Yeah. Not like, oh, I have a, you know, I have, I could say something about it on the matter. You, you're looking for my opinion. Okay. I'll give it to you. That doesn't look good. Okay. But like when sometimes it's, they don't want to hear anything. Yeah. I get frustrated.
[01:14:21] Joe: You tell me all 
[01:14:21] Joe: the time. Get frustrated. Yeah. It doesn't look good. He's like, oh, I'm good. 
[01:14:23] Mike: Yeah. She asked and I tell her, and you know, she might do it anyway. I know it is what it is. And then she said, I don't look good. I go, I don't care. Yeah. Yeah. That's weird. Yeah. Same. That's 
[01:14:34] Katherine: not for me, but I think is very typical.
[01:14:37] Katherine: Typical 
[01:14:37] Joe: man 
[01:14:38] Katherine: of relationships. 
[01:14:39] Joe: Oh, relationships. 
[01:14:40] Katherine: The, the wardrobe thing. The closet thing. 
[01:14:42] Mike: But the issue 
[01:14:43] Katherine: is the same. Um, we, same. Everyone's trying, constantly trying to 
[01:14:46] Mike: solve the problem of, of vanity, 
[01:14:47] Tom: I think. Well, so vanity can be annoying if you have, like, if you're with someone else. Oh, it's not, not serving us.
[01:14:53] Tom: That's the whole, yeah. I think not service in many different ways. I wanted 
[01:14:55] Mike: to ask, well wanna ask is it's a more mild one. What, uh, I think how does the wor the concept of priorities tie into vanity? What do you mean? Oh, I think vanity can be a drug. See, like, my thing is like, let's say you have a million problem in your life and you going out there, you like trying to solve like, oh, these pillows are that pillow.
[01:15:17] Mike: My bad cat. Actually, 
[01:15:19] Katherine: I, I actually, 
[01:15:20] Mike: but you just have a hot example, so I'm gonna use it. Funny. You're on the right. You have a, you have an internal house on fire. You have external house on fire. Yes. Everything's on fire. But you're thinking about sweatpants. Yes. 
[01:15:32] Katherine: I got 'cause Yes. 
[01:15:34] Mike: Yes. You, I'm tell you right now, I'm explain.
[01:15:37] Mike: Correct. He knows when I stressed, I 
[01:15:40] Toliy: shop. She's, that's 
[01:15:41] Mike: what I do. She was supposed to book me an appointment for ankle hip. For months. She hasn't been doing it, but she's been doing this nonsense running around. You know what I mean? But I, yeah, you can't vent. Kidding. I'm gonna talk, I'm gonna let you, you can practice in the future.
[01:15:55] Mike: Thanks. So you don't get upset. Yeah, I'll take this. Even though my shit is priority, it's actual painful. You have to wave between my pain and her pain that she's going through, I'm overwhelmed with, she's overwhelmed with some shit. So she's actually getting, being sick in the moment herself by doing this.
[01:16:12] Mike: She's sick. So it's a priority for her to cure her illness, but it's very difficult to dis distinguish between the two, because right now I'm in pain. I'm like, my hip's fucked up. But he knows promise. So do you have, you 
[01:16:21] Toliy: know, you talk about it like it, like it definitely sounds funny. You wave when you say it.
[01:16:26] Toliy: Like in reality, this is, this is where you, the Tommy thing, what you're saying is that like in reality, once you're faced with a problem, even if like what, what? Like if you're going through something, if you say it what it is, it could sound like a silly thing. Like, I really can't figure out what pillows to put on the couch for, for, for example, right?
[01:16:43] Toliy: Know. Yes. It becomes completely crazy. No, but I'm saying but for the person internally, what they're, oh. Going through it. It does not sound, yeah, it does not sound that same way. 
[01:16:52] Katherine: It's about control in their head. It's about controlling what I can control and there's so many other things that I cannot control in my life.
[01:16:58] Katherine: So if I, oh wow. I can rearrange the pills on my couch. I, it's, that's compulsion in those hundred percent 
[01:17:10] Mike: priority. 
[01:17:11] Katherine: It's number one. She could run away 
[01:17:12] Mike: to the pillow. '
[01:17:13] Katherine: cause I could run away and do that. Guys, there's what you think, what do you think 
[01:17:20] Mike: people do? Shopping therapy. Millions of people do this. I didn't think, but I also like it.
[01:17:28] Katherine: I also do like dressing up my house with But you like going back and forth. 
[01:17:33] Music: Like buying, but I'm 
[01:17:35] Katherine: not worried about that. I'm worried about finding the right pillows that are gonna fit for me. Like I, I like that's a priority for me. The returning, it'll sit in my car for like a week or two. I don't care about it.
[01:17:46] Katherine: Like it's, that's not bothering me. It bothers him 
[01:17:49] Joe: going to your house and seeing your selections. It, it looks good and, and I can see, but now 
[01:17:54] Mike: you know what, what was behind it? Yeah. Well I sweat
[01:18:02] Mike: if you 
[01:18:03] Toliy: know. Yeah. I know that your house looks great, but it is killing you to do that. It almost makes it look ugly. 
[01:18:10] Mike: Yes. Well, I mean, correct because what value? Because you said, you said, Hey, KA, did you get eight hours sleep today? No, I didn't. Well, I got nice ass pillows, 
[01:18:20] Katherine: but I, you guys point 
[01:18:22] Mike: is that it, 
[01:18:24] Katherine: know 
[01:18:24] Toliy: what's behind it.
[01:18:25] Toliy: Yeah. Then you can't 
[01:18:26] Katherine: appreciate, it's not about the pillows. That's not, do you guys realize that? Yes. Yeah. Yes. It's, it's my mind staying busy. It's 
[01:18:35] Toliy: not really the pillow, but, but if you're killing yourself like on the inside to create some kind of look, even if it looks good, if, I guess like, like if, if I know that, it definitely makes me think about it a different way.
[01:18:48] Eldar: Yeah, for 
[01:18:48] Toliy: sure. Yeah. Yeah. But that, that's the shit that we're trying to cover 
[01:18:51] Mike: up with a nice pillow. Yeah. Yeah. There's always also, after pillows are done, there's also blankets. Yeah. And you can have a fun time with that. And after the blankets are done, you can do blinds and after the blinds are done, there's something else.
[01:19:04] Mike: And after that I've done, that's why, that's why the movie Momentum Scare. It's a repetitive cycle when I was little. Oh yeah. That's, 
[01:19:09] Katherine: that's why mental health is very important. Yes. 
[01:19:12] Toliy: It almost seems like, like the silly things that like we do if we bring them into luck because it is like if they're internally inside of us versus like if we bring them out into like life.
[01:19:23] Toliy: Like they're, they're, they have two different existences almost, right? 100%. Right. And that, 
[01:19:28] Mike: that, that's where anxiety lives. Anxiety is one out of those things. Yeah. This is, this is anxiety. Yeah. This is anxiety. Yeah. This is the manifest station and the, and the physical anxiety. I have a, 
[01:19:37] Katherine: a home rental. I have appliances that I can't control.
[01:19:39] Katherine: My fridge is in Germany. I have all these things happening. So there's that, you know, pillow. There's that pillow over there. It's a stress relief. So are you. Love it. So Mike, 
[01:19:49] Joe: are you, do you have anxiety, OCD about the, the kneecap roughage of your 
[01:19:53] Mike: sweatpants? I don't like it possibly. And I, I'm definitely bought pants to try out that are, you know, anti kneecap.
[01:20:00] Mike: Yeah, I know, but is it, but now that we know that, but Mike also admitted about the, the, the pants. He likes to style and he wants to feel a certain type of way. It's made him feel a certain type of way. But I asked him like if he makes you feel a certain type of way, but you're not even dating yet. You're not even, you're not even out there.
[01:20:16] Mike: But in, in, in his mind also. But he's already putting on an 
[01:20:18] Music: image. 
[01:20:19] Mike: But he's, he's dating, I'm not dating, but I, to get harassed by some girls. He's peacock. He wears the white weapons.
[01:20:31] Mike: I wear this, I wear a specific article of clothing seven days a week now, almost seven days a week for the past six months. I want be, I wanna enjoy that experience because I do it every single day. Yeah. You know, like that's a factor. It's not like I do it once a month. Sure. And I'm like, I'm gonna buy these thousand dollars sweatpants and wear 'em once a year.
[01:20:47] Mike: Yeah. I'm gonna wear this shit seven days a week. Yeah. So for that, it is, for me, it's like, it is worth investment because it's, I get my utility out of it and it's gonna serve me in a way that's gonna make me feel so question, buy 
[01:20:58] Katherine: the pillow thing in my mind in a similar way. Gotcha. Um, no, not that I'm saying that that's wrong.
[01:21:03] Katherine: No. I'm hoping to hearing if it's, yeah, no, I agree with that. But I'm actually, I did buy your pants just thinking of the way, I just justify the pillow thing in my mind. I'm, I live here, I'm gonna enjoy them. I'm gonna sit on them like I, I, these little things somehow I justify. The pillow situation. Yeah.
[01:21:21] Katherine: Like, but in a moment of reasoning, like, I understand that there's, there's more to it, but I, I can still justify why it makes sense. Yeah. 
[01:21:28] Mike: She comes in into the house and she sees the look, I come into the house, I wanna see the couch. Yeah. Meaning I want to get on in it. Yeah. I wanna get in the couch and I wanna calm down and I watch my movie, watch my phone.
[01:21:38] Mike: I wanna, yeah. The utility. There is a aesthetic on the floor. Care about the aesthetics. These pills are on the floor, Archie's on top of 'em. Archie throws 'em off, we throw them off. Like, this shit is a wreck. Yeah. You know, it is a mess. That's what we do. And I feel great about that mess. Mm-hmm. But for me,
[01:21:59] Mike: she got, she gotta make sure it's like that. Like, because Bills a certain type of way, Joe. And I know it. Yeah. I now know it. If you did that, I, 
[01:22:07] Joe: I I dress the bed because this is what she does all the time. Yeah. And like infected. I dress it. I hate making the bed. True. I, me too. The, like, yours gets made.
[01:22:20] Joe: There's a certain, 
[01:22:21] Mike: when I used to, I do before. There's 
[01:22:22] Joe: two types of people in this world. People that make their beds when they leave and people that don't. Yeah. And I mean, you could try to study it. I think 
[01:22:30] Music: I call, look at 
[01:22:30] Joe: me, I'll make my bed. I'm pretty successful, you know, like I've done, I've done some things I could, I could like brag about and I'll make my bed, uh, not, not in this guy's eyes.
[01:22:39] Joe: So, you know, uh, when it comes to like the aesthetic stuff, like, look. You could care about it or you don't care about it. Cares about it, doesn't care about it. Mm-hmm. Doesn't care about it a lot. Obviously cares about certain things. So it's where you put your value in it. You know, like where, where are you gonna stack your chips?
[01:22:57] Joe: Where you wanna spend your time, two hours searching for pillows or two hours watching a movie, you know, or taking a walk or exercise shit. You know what I mean? Where do I spend your time? Yeah. Social media. Not social media. Dating. Not dating, you know, eating, not eating. And I, and I 
[01:23:12] Mike: personally think, and I personally think you could be 
[01:23:14] okay 
[01:23:15] Mike: with, you 
[01:23:15] Joe: spend a lot of money on food, which is important.
[01:23:16] Mike: 'cause it's important. Be sick, be sick on your own with whatever want you want. Be sick with. Yeah. Right. If you're right, I think also, but then it bleeds over a little bit. You know what I'm saying? Up, 
[01:23:29] James: it will always bleed over. I think if you, if you're in a 
[01:23:32] Mike: relationship. Yes, it does. And that's why I think with the problems become, that's when some person, sooner or later is gonna say, yo, what's going on here?
[01:23:38] James: I think even individually, when you're not in a relationship, it ends up spilling depending on the habit or the level of it, it always spills. You have answer to nobody, 
[01:23:46] Mike: you can answer to yourself, but you could be sick with it as long as you want to be sick with it. 
[01:23:49] James: Depending how sick it may spill into somebody's work life or something.
[01:23:53] James: Yeah, it will in some way because of how ingrained that habit is. I agree. Yeah, I agree with that. 
[01:23:58] Toliy: But my, my question is around, like, all this is, is I like, um, ul ultimately we wanna find out, I guess like, well I, I, I think all of us wanna find out the, uh, truth about something, right. But like, what if that process, for example, right, let's say like if Catherine knows that like this whole pillow thing or like this thing is for example, like, like it's not good or it's not serving her right, but she still does it because not doing it will make her feel more pain.
[01:24:29] Toliy: Mm-hmm. If you acknowledge that, is it okay to live in the I don't think she'll 
[01:24:34] Mike: be able to say honestly the first part. Yes. So what you're saying that she just doesn't think about it? Is that what you're saying? Yeah. She can't, it's impossible. She can't, as soon as she acknowledges that this does not serve her, she doesn't get up off the couch.
[01:24:46] Mike: She, I acknowledging it in the moment Or 
[01:24:49] Toliy: is it just like a general acknowledgement, like there's a difference, right. 
[01:24:52] Mike: I agree. That's a difference. Yeah. It could be one or the other. Hopefully the ation, the small ones along the lines of like saying like, Hey, maybe if you say to yourself, like what you're saying is like, maybe I know these pills not the most important thing in my life, but like you consciously making the choice to continue that cycle.
[01:25:09] Mike: I think how do you, if you internally say to yourself, you be like, Hey, I know I got a fire going on over here, but these pills will gimme a temporary release and I'm okay. And I, and if you do that every time, that's, how will that affect your psych? I'm not, so I would agree a hundred percent with this, and there's a very therapeutic way of going about it and with time, but that is not the case of how we practice this right now.
[01:25:30] Mike: I know, but I I'm just point that out there. Yeah. I'm not, I wish this is implemented in such a way. Yeah, I don't, I don't feel like the sweat. That's what I'm saying. Like what if this 
[01:25:38] Toliy: like, kneecap thing with Mike, like him thinking about it, him just like that whole thing is like, um, is bothering him so much and causing him like time, like spending time thinking about it, spending time, like discussing it, like all, all the shit, right.
[01:25:55] Toliy: Make, make what it's called, making him feel certain ways internally. Right. Um, but if he just bought those more expensive ones, um, then, then he wouldn't feel that way anymore, even though like, yeah. But the decision might be wrong. Is that, but thinking 
[01:26:09] Mike: about what came out of that con me thinking about those sweatpants and what the conversation did it spark?
[01:26:14] Mike: Right? Yeah. Me having difficulty with sweatpants translated something much bigger than sweatpants. A topic about vanity and trying to understand it. Yeah. And now I just came up with a thing, like, I may use it in the future. I may not be like, Hey, yeah, I know this is not so important for me, but I'm gonna do this because it's gonna give something that I need right now.
[01:26:31] Mike: And eventually when I'm ready to tackle this issue. Because you can't always be like in your thought. I think it's, 
[01:26:38] Toliy: yeah, but I think it's like, as a, as, I dunno if it says necessary, it's one, one level up, I feel like, or one, one step further. Yeah. One, one step further. Right? That's per D It's per D, right. I feel like it's like, um, sounds 
[01:26:53] Tom: like per diem.
[01:26:53] Toliy: I think. Um, not only May, may you think that way, but I feel like by you bringing that way that you felt like when you have a feeling and you have a relationship with that fe feeling, right? When you bring it out into like, uh, the world or like in front of us, for example, who are more of like, um, like examiners, right.
[01:27:14] Toliy: Who are like trying to use our minds. Right. I feel like, I feel like Mike almost can't buy those sweatpants anymore. Like I feel like I agree with that. Like I feel like he wouldn't even, I deal with this with you guys a lot. If he were to do it, if he were 
[01:27:25] Mike: to do it, Todd, you know, we know you are creeping you, you thrive.
[01:27:28] Mike: You guys know that I buy things and you 
[01:27:31] Tom: guys discuss it openly next to me. 
[01:27:33] Mike: Yeah. So if you know that I'm after a, but after the fact, he's got questions. You never fucking came to us before the fact. Well, maybe most recently, but Mike came before the fact, before he bought the Yeah. 
[01:27:41] Toliy: I'm saying like, I feel like it would be hard for Mike to even like, uh, like, uh, well he can, he can't drive and do the same stuff.
[01:27:49] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. I bought him Ready. Okay. Yeah. What? 
[01:27:53] Katherine: Oh, you bought 'em? 
[01:27:54] Mike: No, 
[01:27:54] Mike: I don't know the, you don't know if, if you bought 'em when we told this conversation yesterday? I bought him yesterday. Yeah, yesterday I bought 'em in the morning. Yeah. What, 
[01:28:03] Mike: like, 
[01:28:04] James: how, how'd you feel once you bought 'em? I'm not more curious about that.
[01:28:06] Mike: Uh, I felt like good, I solved a problem. There's an, that bothers me. I feel like any certain type of way it acting on better than everybody. Like, like right now the 
[01:28:15] James: focus is, there is my bad No, no, I'm sorry. Right now I feel the focus is on the sweatpants, but the problem is really rooted in something else.
[01:28:22] James: Mm-hmm. The, the focus always shifts. 
[01:28:24] Mike: Correct. When you solve the pants, shh, it'll come out somewhere else. He's right. Yeah. Yeah. So 
[01:28:31] James: it, it's always gonna spill. That's what I was talking about before. I think 
[01:28:34] Mike: bringing the topic up is solving the pants. It's talking about it, trying to understand it. Yeah.
[01:28:37] Mike: Without this conversation, I can tell you he's like, sleep children. The situation with your pants. 
[01:28:41] Joe: I could say, I could ask a very simple question, are you dating right now? Are you looking to date? And I could say, motivation is because you're looking to, you're looking for girls and it's a way to peacock, it's a way to show up.
[01:28:55] Joe: It's physical. Yeah. It's your physical appearance. 
[01:28:57] Music: Mm-hmm. 
[01:28:58] Joe: So do these things matter to you now? Yeah. Should they? Sure. If it, if it, if you need to do this to, to, 
[01:29:05] Mike: no. If in the pool that you're trying to get a attract a girl in, like we just said, right. Like if you're in the modeling world mm-hmm. Trying to attract modeling people.
[01:29:14] Mike: Mm-hmm. You gotta line up with them modeling pants. Mm-hmm. 
[01:29:17] Joe: Yeah. So, so if 
[01:29:19] Mike: not, if not, then you have a different 
[01:29:20] Joe: conversation and like he was saying, like it will come out another way. Yes. Are you trying to break this mold that you, you know, you're thinking about vanity because you're also thinking about shifting your mindset, you changing your ways about who you date, how you Yes, a hundred percent.
[01:29:33] Joe: Who the girls you're attracting. So, you know what, I used to look at you, you had the belt buckle, you had the wallet, you had the nice car, big up yourself. Yeah. Big, big house. Big, big cars, big dream, you know, everything. Like, you definitely were all in, everything all real big. And that's fine, real big. I know like that's Mike and Mike, you know, Mike's gonna do play that, play that game.
[01:29:56] Joe: Sure. But if you're trying to rewire these things and trying to change your outcomes and your, you know, what, what you getting yourself into maybe looking at something this small as your wrinkles and your kneecap sweatpants mm-hmm. Is a good example to see that you're starting to identify what's important.
[01:30:15] Joe: Should I make that important? You know, where is that is important me? Yeah. So, yeah, this is a good, this is a good step, a hundred percent, but does my head percent delay? 
[01:30:26] Toliy: Delay his 
[01:30:27] Mike: progression? James said no, because sooner or later it's gonna come out somewhere else. Sooner or later, he's gonna keep hitting the same wall and he has to answer this wall.
[01:30:35] Mike: Once he finally 
[01:30:35] James: answers that que that's when, that's when change of behavior happens. What I'm 
[01:30:39] Toliy: saying is that instead of like addressing it at, at the sweatpants point, you buy the sweatpants and it delays it to, to come out and leak out somewhere else, correct? Right? Mm-hmm. Correct. Correct. Yes. Okay.
[01:30:48] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 
[01:30:48] Mike: You do delay? Yeah. Yeah, because he's more, he's openly saying that I am tricking myself, kind of thing. Um, you know, he's allowing to be tricked in that moment, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Like, we're not finished with these pillows, like pillows are done. We bought the pillows. 
[01:31:02] Katherine: No, I'm, I'm done. I think 
[01:31:03] Mike: you see what you're saying.
[01:31:04] Mike: She thinks she's done successful. I'm completely, yes. We're done the pillows, but we're not done with the pillows. Yeah. The pillow is you're done, but you're not finished right now. 
[01:31:16] Katherine: Exactly. 
[01:31:17] Mike: The pillows are gonna continue. The pillows are everywhere. A couple of other projects. It's everywhere. Do we use vanity as a way to be heard?
[01:31:26] Mike: To be heard? Yes. Well, if, if it equates to validation, 
[01:31:30] James: yes. It's a sense of approval or maybe even Understood. 
[01:31:33] Mike: Yeah. 
[01:31:34] James: 100%. 
[01:31:35] Mike: How so? 
[01:31:37] James: I, I, I, I thought 
[01:31:38] Mike: about that 
[01:31:38] James: question 
[01:31:38] Mike: when I 
[01:31:38] James: was peeing. Well, we were talking about, right. If it equates to like. Vanity equates to some degree of validation, then validation turns into approval.
[01:31:47] James: And that in itself is that, is that link? Yeah, you can start a connection. 100%. Well, yeah, we 
[01:31:53] Mike: said people want to connect. That's why people post shit. That's why they where things so they can interact, get conversations, right? Yeah. Like why do, like, people have car meets or like, you know, similar interest meets, right?
[01:32:04] Mike: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 'cause people like certain things and don't wanna connect with those things with other people. No, I, I'm not sure if they wanna connect with those things. I think they use those things to connect. Yeah. To connect with other people to something else. Like those things else. No, to something else.
[01:32:17] Mike: Yeah. Or to create. It depends. No, I ultimately think that they want to connect to something else. Uh, yes, I agree. Like, I would say they wanna be hurt, would say, but then I would say yes, they, but I don't, I'm not sure everybody, they get through the door, they get through the door with that, get through the door, through the vanity.
[01:32:31] Mike: But the problem is. But a lot. I think for a lot of people that's where it ends. A lot of people I agree with that. Scared to go past that. I agree with that. You know? I agree a hundred percent. Yeah. 
[01:32:39] Toliy: But do you, do you think people utilize vanity to fit in for comfort in order to live then a peaceful life and do what they want 
[01:32:47] James: to feel accepted?
[01:32:48] James: Yes. I would say yeah. Yeah. Right. Like for example, I 
[01:32:52] Toliy: could, like in, I mean in high school or like wherever I could wear, like, I mean, I always had nice clothing, right? Like, um, I could come into high school wearing nice clothing and fit in. Were you, then I can go home outgrow Tom Fitch hop. Yeah. I, I could then go home and play World of Warcraft for like eight hours straight.
[01:33:10] Toliy: Yeah. And like be like a complete nerd. Yeah. 
[01:33:13] Tommy: He's 
[01:33:13] Toliy: confessing. So, but I'm gonna tell you right now, like a complete nerd in school, it may not have a allowed 
[01:33:19] Mike: stop it. Correct. So you are hybrid. Okay. You were a hybrid, I think. Yeah, right. And I think many of us work cyber. Yeah. I was also the, uh, the gamer, right?
[01:33:29] Mike: Who didn't care about swamp pie and all this other shit. But then when school came, I had to fucking, you know, level up a little bit, brush my teeth, you know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. Um, I can't 
[01:33:38] Joe: imagine a 
[01:33:39] Mike: teenager. Ew. No, I was trying to get a girl. Um, 
[01:33:46] Joe: yourself. 
[01:33:46] Mike: So you do play a hybrid role, however, I would say that, that what you're more passionate about that what is what?
[01:33:53] Mike: It's closer to who you are. Really are. It is always gonna win over the gimmick that you're putting up. Yes. No, I know. Sooner or later, sooner or later, you are, you're trying to convince the other person, the other party or the collective individuals and you want introduce your gamers side. Yes. You wanna and you wanna convert them to the gaming world.
[01:34:14] Mike: Yes. But so you can be butt naked playing your video games. At least if, but the person didn't do that with all those friends. 
[01:34:22] Toliy: Correct. Yeah. But, but, but if the person did not do that, it could be even worse where it's like they're, now, it's coming into, they actually like, and because they're dressed how they actually, like, for example, they're not accepted and being made fun of, and then they internally have a lot of problems that will prevent them from coming home and happily playing video games.
[01:34:44] Mike: Correct. Because you have not discovered yet Courage. Yes. Courage and, and, uh, unique identity by yourself. Yeah. 
[01:34:50] Toliy: I feel like yeah. Courage is, is, is a big antidote to vanity. 
[01:34:55] Mike: Yeah. Or 100%. 
[01:34:56] Toliy: It's like a big confidence, but 
[01:34:59] Mike: ulti, but oh yeah. Courage, which comes from self-confidence, which comes from some self love and understanding that your own magic is the shit like nobody else can tell you otherwise.
[01:35:07] Mike: Yeah. What do you value? Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but, but I think that we live actually in a society that actually promotes this type of thing that we're talking about. Yeah. Mm-hmm. But, but the question also is like, see, the thing is vanity is, is definitely a stepping stone. It's definitely a stepping stone for something that's inherently within us, which is a desire to connect to other people.
[01:35:27] Mike: Mm-hmm. On a much higher level than vanity. Yes. We're all looking for love and friendship is love and love is love. Yes. You know, pa, romantic love, it's all love. But we all want to use that car or those clothes or those, whatever the fuck, the interest to peak interest person so we can interact with them on a more such a, not primitive level, but a level that's inherent within us for like from decades, generations, white P food.
[01:35:51] Mike: Yeah. Everybody like to eat. Everybody like to eat. So 
[01:35:54] Tom: even if I'm trying to use vanity as a defense, yo, do not take this and make this into a Yeah. 
[01:35:59] Mike: By yourself. I'm confirming what you're saying. Stop being a criminal. I'm confirming what you're saying by saying 
[01:36:05] Tom: that even if I use vanity as a way to fend people off, like I'm hot, you know?
[01:36:10] Tom: Yeah. So don't come towards me. I'm still communicating something to them, I don't think, and asking for them. Then you're just being a 
[01:36:16] Mike: prick. Yeah. I think if you'd be like, oh, hey, nice car. Then you can make a prick. I have the same car, and then you became buddy, buddy. You're not doing it because you're so passionate about the car.
[01:36:24] Mike: No, but 
[01:36:25] Tom: for me, for example, let's say I, I, uh, first I'll use the specific situa. The scenario for me is I go to school and I'm going, I'm going to school at a time when 18 year olds are going to school. Right. And that might be funny. I think that was the goal though. But for me, it's like I have a nice car.
[01:36:45] Tom: And I'm smart. And so now they have somebody to look up to. So that to me is vanity. 
[01:36:50] Mike: Yeah. Depends what you're trying to have to look up to. Okay. Now 
[01:36:54] Tommy: here's the thing. Here's the thing. He made the intro that's intro worthy. Now here's the thing. It's either meet me at my level, as you've noticed, he makes the intros often.
[01:37:04] Tommy: You get what I'm saying? It's like, meet me at my, it's either there's 18 year olds there. That's the first thing that has to say. 
[01:37:09] Tom: Now here's the thing. It's either you meet me at my level or you, you definitely like, uh, yields to me, you know what I mean? I'll look at 
[01:37:17] Mike: you sideways. 
[01:37:17] Tom: So I use it as a defense, but these days don't really care.
[01:37:20] Tom: Care. You're an arrogant 
[01:37:21] Mike: prick. 
[01:37:21] Tom: No, I don't think today, today I don't think that I'm giving up any attributes of my own by just being naturally myself and not wanting to be somebody who shows off or like, but yeah. Needs vanity. I be, here's the thing. I enjoy, I really do enjoy being shaved, you know, but I, I, but today it's more of like, I enjoy communicating that I'm a clean person, a respectable person.
[01:37:44] Tom: Yeah. And, and that I'm living within my means. Mm-hmm. But before it was the living above my means that was bringing out the vanity and yielding this kind of good feeling of Yeah. And still does. That's what I'm saying. I'm saying that I still think about my past so that I can earn some respect. Yeah. But it, to today, it's kind of like, well, am I really doing what I am aiming to do?
[01:38:05] Tom: Am I reaching my goals? 
[01:38:07] Music: Yeah. Or 
[01:38:07] Tom: is this vanity? Just kind of like a, a facade that I'm using Yeah. To get people to sort of see, I would ask you a question, but I have 
[01:38:17] Mike: no idea what you said, 
[01:38:19] Tom: but I did think about, so he was, that's ELs van. He wants to be a teenage. He wants be a teenage dirt man. Elder wants 
[01:38:31] Tom: to be 
[01:38:33] Tom: 18 
[01:38:34] Tom: year olds.
[01:38:35] Tom: What the fuck is wrong 
[01:38:36] Mike: with you? What's the matter with you put the
[01:38:43] Mike: We love you and you still our here's the thing, the wrong truth. I have a question about, I think the one's missing out on top, yes or no, Joe. Yeah. We need a show. A show. The Tommy Show. Yeah. What I heard from Tommy and I, I started thinking about it. The word that came to mind was unique. Yeah. Everybody wants to be unique.
[01:39:03] Mike: Yeah. Right? Yeah. And they do it through vanity, but they're not really unique because like Yeah, it's a collective conscience. It's a, but everybody in their own head thinks like, oh, I'm the only one who, like he said, I'm the only ones clean, shaved and wear my hair. Like this is fucking millions of people.
[01:39:19] Mike: Do the same goofy look,
[01:39:24] Tom: had a very base level. I think that it makes sense. But see, he's 
[01:39:27] Mike: attributing that to his uniqueness, to his, to his character. And that's uniqueness contributes to a vanity. I, I'm gonna tell you right now, if you are in the room of 18 year olds. That you are after you and they're valuing a particular TikTok image unique.
[01:39:42] Mike: And you come in like that. You fucking unique bro. They think he's tta over here 
[01:39:48] Tom: percent. See, that's the thing. And you understand it all. To me, that set the tone before, but now I don't care. 
[01:39:54] Mike: Listen, as long as you, if you are credit, but at 18, we're good.
[01:40:01] Mike: 18 gives us the pass. You know, all the land in America. 
[01:40:04] Music: Yeah. 
[01:40:05] Mike: Gives us 
[01:40:05] Tom: the pass. He says all the land. No, I, I don't care anymore. 
[01:40:08] Tommy: That's the thing. 
[01:40:11] Tom: And I'll tell you why, because not caring, letting go of that facade and the vanity has actually allowed me to focus on the problems that matter the most. Even if nothing really changes, because I decided not to be a prick.
[01:40:24] Tom: Wait, but when are you gonna implement this change? I already have this. I literally, why do you look like that? This was hanging on my door and this was the only thing that matched. And like I said, these were gift pants. Second, take that shirt off and we're gonna burn it. Their second, their second hand.
[01:40:38] Tom: Yeah. I got $10 on 
[01:40:40] Mike: rip burning. 
[01:40:41] Tom: Right. Ripping you shirt. Uh, you know, funny enough, lemme tell you a funny story. I went out to a club wearing a boss shirt. You would go, boss. So give it to me as a gift. It was like a hundred dollars shirt. Yeah. I was ing it. That was vanity. Mm-hmm. I went out on the dance floor and the girl who is was in front of me was talking to me, or we were like dancing or something.
[01:41:00] Tom: She ripped open the shirt, the buttons came off and everything. It was like a joke. 
[01:41:05] Music: Mm-hmm. 
[01:41:06] Tom: You remember this Mike? No. You weren't there. Sick. She ripped open the shirt. And to me that was like the facade of vanity coming down. You wanted that? It, you want her to rip it though? The Hollywood team, first of all, it was humili a hundred percent, but it was all a hundred.
[01:41:20] Tom: It was like all in my mind it was like a hundred dollars. You just ripped a hundred dollars shirt, you know what I mean? The shirt was a gift, but that my vanity made me feel good like that. You know? It made me like think, oh, I've got actual, so can we actually define finally what, we had plenty examples. 
[01:41:39] Joe: I was on So for the nuke that he Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, 
[01:41:43] Mike: yeah.
[01:41:43] Mike: The sweatpants thing that I came to with that was an introduction. And, and and how much were the sweatpants for, for the record? Huh? How much were the sweatpants for the record? Hundred dollars. Who cares about that? Okay. Just for the record. A hundred something. I don't know. 110. 20, 20 Uhhuh. But I 30, I read the refuse, uh, chat with representative.
[01:42:02] Mike: I ask questions like, yo, you chat? You pay for the chat. 
[01:42:06] James: They were in there while you were changing. I'll by the pants. Were in there. 
[01:42:10] Mike: Love. I got 20 in the chat. Let see if I can get it from you. Call him. No, it was the chat. Oh, the chat. Okay. Okay. And what are the questions you asked? I think I was icing my, my uh, my legs like, yeah, lemme chill out.
[01:42:25] Mike: I'm chilling and let me, you know, I can't really move anywhere, so let me chat 'em up, see what they say, you know? Yeah. And. Okay, so I got the sweatpants, whatever, but that wasn't the thing. Mm-hmm. The reason this came about, you know, and I think, you know, maybe people can relate, uh, about losing weight and being in shape.
[01:42:41] Mike: Right. Yeah. I think a lot like that line for me has always been like, I don't know if I mentioned it to you, I was talking to somebody, I don't know if think it was Dennis, but I've always been overweight my whole life. Right. And I lost a lot of weight and I gained a little bit back now recently. But like, I'm in a, still a state of mind where I wanna lose weight, but like, it's not working for me.
[01:43:03] Mike: But I understand in a certain sense why, it's because I no longer part of me no longer values and knows that I know that it's not important to lose weight because that's not the most important thing. But in a way, I'm fighting my internal battle of wanting to lose weight because I have a part of me that buys into vanity.
[01:43:19] Mike: Mm-hmm. But I also have the part of me that's reasonable. Like, yo, this shit is not that fucking important. And what's more important is me. But I haven't bought into myself enough, you know, like, which I'm trying to do obviously through whatever we're doing, but trying to buy into myself. Yeah. But still stop, like dealing with the vanity of wanting to be skinny or being in better shape.
[01:43:37] Mike: Yeah. So that, what if you took away, what if you took that decision away from yourself and gave it to Joe, for example? What if Joe ordered you to lose weight? 
[01:43:44] Joe: I don't 
[01:43:44] Mike: know. Would that change about that? 
[01:43:46] Joe: What if I told you that I think you could, you could get the girl you're looking for based off of who you are, not rather Yeah, I know that.
[01:43:54] Joe: I know that. Well, that's what he's struggling with. And 
[01:43:56] Toliy: he would need to gain 50 pounds to do so. Ooh, 
[01:43:59] James: wow. 
[01:44:00] Toliy: I know I could do that because I, you have to marry fat and girls that I like. 
[01:44:04] Mike: Oh wow. You have to marry fat and get skinny. Yo marry and get skinny. Yo, see how bad I wanna say fuck. Are
[01:44:14] Music: marry fat.
[01:44:21] Joe: Being, being, being fit, being healthy. It's 
[01:44:24] Mike: a good, yeah, but the thing is the line right. For me right now, like, I'm not skinny. I'm a little bit overweight, but it's not like, yeah, it's not a huge thing. Especially in where you came from. Yeah. Where I came from is a huge difference. Yeah. A hundred pounds down.
[01:44:37] Mike: Yeah. But my shit, it's, again, it kind of relates to the smoking thing where in a way like, uh, I feel like I can engage. With this in a way where like, yo, I'm in good shape. I could run ball. I don't get tired. Mm-hmm. I'm not burnt out after like, my day's not shot. I'm not over there huffing and puffing, dying on the court.
[01:44:58] Mike: I got fucking plenty of stamina and I could run Still, when you go up the stairs, you don't break a sweat. Yeah. I don't break a sweat. Like I don't have, you don't have to change the sweat after like, you know, three minutes of gardening. Yeah. We're not talking about anybody. No, not anybody in this room looking around trying to figure out who post 
[01:45:15] Toliy: court.
[01:45:15] Toliy: You definitely won't get tired, 
[01:45:17] Music: that's for sure. Yeah. So I don't, now 
[01:45:20] Mike: I don't, I don't feel like that. Yeah. So, so the question comes to it is again, is what's more important? Like if I was, I think it's a very important model. I was saying like, like my friend right here to my right. Yeah. He weighs, he's skinny, he's in good shape.
[01:45:34] Mike: He has a good physique. But my man, he's fucking shit bro. He can't run a fucking mile, wave a quarter, but he got fucking spaghetti legs. Yeah. I weigh 50, 60 pounds more than him, but I fucking la this nigga for fucking days. Yes. Yo. Watch out son. 
[01:45:47] Denis: Who? Who won in our 1 0 1 Mike last 
[01:45:49] Mike: time? Yeah.
[01:45:55] Denis: $1,200 
[01:45:56] Mike: faster than him. Faster than Mike. Seriously. 
[01:45:59] Denis: Dennis, you're inserting Yo, Mike's a bull. 
[01:46:01] Mike: I've run with Mike in almost a hundred degree. 
[01:46:05] James: Yeah, I got 50 on Mike. He's saying 50 on Mike for a one mile race. Was gonna finish it faster. Mike, Mike will I, I've run with Mike almost a hundred degree weather his ability, so I 
[01:46:16] Mike: can't be, again, 
[01:46:19] Denis: Mike had hundred pounds.
[01:46:20] Denis: Where? Where's that line where like, yo Mike doesn't like competitiveness, so it's 
[01:46:24] Mike: not gonna happen. Yeah, 
[01:46:25] James: I don't That's vanity Mike. Yeah. But 
[01:46:28] Mike: again, it's not about who's doing it fast. It's about the stam. I can run a mile and I can come out a little bit sweaty and my like every time I play ball. Yeah. I, after the game is done in 30 seconds, my breathing's back to normal.
[01:46:41] Mike: Like Yeah. A minute and 30 seconds. I'm good. Yeah. You're in shape. You're in shape. I'm in good shape, but I mean, not look like it. Yeah. So that's what I'm saying, like it's a question of health versus vanity. Yeah. That's the question that I'm facing. And like I'm not wanting to buy into the vanity. You still, 'cause I also have the help that's vacuuming me.
[01:46:55] Mike: Mm-hmm. And I also know the vanity is fake, but where's that line? Right. That's like, but something's pulling you towards the vanity. Yeah, for sure. Maybe just justify, you have to examine that. And I think what Joe's talking about is 
[01:47:05] Joe: important. Like maybe just justify like living within your means. Yeah. And spending the money that makes you feel comfortable.
[01:47:11] Joe: You know, and, uh, if it's, if it's way past your budget 
[01:47:16] Mike: Yeah. 
[01:47:16] Joe: It's not justified. So vanity, vanity should be to a certain extent, where it's functional, you're comfortable also kind of looks good, but it's not breaking the bank. 'cause if you are breaking the bank, you're spending more money. I don't, I don't, I don't think that's 
[01:47:30] Mike: issue with the, like, I'm not going out anymore and buying shit that I, like, I'm 500 shoes.
[01:47:36] Mike: Right. I'm not going out buying like I used to. If, if, I mean, I'm open to being, you know, criticized. If somebody thinks that I'm buying shit that is overly expensive that I shouldn't be like I can't afford it, I'm definitely open to hear it. 'cause I would like to be known the truth about the situation.
[01:47:49] Mike: But like, I don't go to expensive stores. I don't go to expensive, like fancy shit, you know? I, I, no, I definitely noticed a, a huge tone back from before. I'm not like immaterial. I did go on a sick ass vacation on a fancy one. Yeah. It was expensive, you know, for sure. But, but that's actually a very good example that you bring that up.
[01:48:05] Mike: I'm not sure how that like relates to it. Yeah, no, we actually try to, we trying to you we were trying, we were trying to leverage vanity there in a very particular way when we came to that experiment of dating and being vanity. Yeah. Attracting vanity. Yeah. Seeing what we can get out of vanity. Mm-hmm. We have a specific, uh, thing.
[01:48:21] Mike: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Uh, but I ultimately think that what Joe was talking about trying to convince you that. You don't need to struggle with internal battle of vanity to lose weight to be worthy. Yeah. You have to. I know that, and I also, in my opinion, is that you could say a thousand things about you or what your was I know that.
[01:48:38] Mike: I agree, but because I, but you can't, most of my life I bought into this. Yeah. So now it's not that easy just to unsubscribe. But I also, in my own head, I'm like saying to myself like, once I stopped giving a fuck about this. Yeah. I'm not even have an issue with being overweight. Correct. Mm-hmm. Because I'm suffering with this weight issue because I believe in it, which is I believe into the falseness of it, and therefore I'm 
[01:48:59] Joe: still gonna get punished by it.
[01:49:00] Joe: That's what he said. He said you first hit your pants and then when you got rid of the pants issue, it's something else. Yeah. Yeah. No, at the end of the day, it's, it's all the underlining issue is that underlining until, 
[01:49:11] Mike: until you say to yourself internally, right. Like, I'm the shit, because of the reasons why you were the shit for yourself.
[01:49:19] Mike: Yeah. And you actually believe that. Mm-hmm. You're gonna continue to struggle back and forth. But I, I think that's what I'm trying to accomplish. Yeah. I understand. It's a process. I mean, the world that every human being should try serious. I can understand struggle, I 
[01:49:30] Joe: can understand the mental issue of being overweight.
[01:49:32] Joe: Like even though I'm not, I can understand it. And I've You used to carry the tire before, like a little tired. No, I'm, I just understand. Your position. I'm not in any position, but understand your position. Mm-hmm. I don't understand other people in your position that might be even worse off. Mm-hmm. You know, so I could say like, Mike, you don't even have it close as bad as you.
[01:49:52] Joe: There's a lot of people out there that are really struggling. You're struggling Afghanistan, you know, but you're, you know, um, you're, you're frustration or your issue is valid, you know, whether or not it should dictate your happiness or your life. No, but you're, but you figuring it out little by little, you know, uncovering these layers.
[01:50:12] Mike: Mm-hmm. 
[01:50:13] Joe: It's all, like I said, this is all a great, this is all a great step and right direction. This mm-hmm. This stupid little conversation about your sweatpants opened up the understanding of, you know, what's underneath that. 
[01:50:24] Music: Mm-hmm. 
[01:50:25] Joe: You know, and all this stuff is driven, motive driven. Yep. You know, underlining, you know, issues that make you act a certain way.
[01:50:34] Joe: And again, these girls out there, if they're gonna influence you in the wrong direction, then maybe you know that fast life ain't helping you. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like these chicks mm-hmm. That are gonna be va are gonna value those things that drag you in the wrong direction. Mm-hmm. You, you know, you start to realize the quicker you shave those off your life is the quicker you'll get to the point where you want to be.
[01:50:58] Joe: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So that you could start living the way that makes you feel happy rather than I agree. Letting the society shape you. 
[01:51:07] Mike: Yeah. No, I, I like, I understand why I relate to it, and I understand how to describe Yeah. You're kicking a lot of unsubscribed buttons right now. Yeah. I'm working on it, you know, and I feel like internally I do feel like I'm making progress into unsubscribing from the things that I used to be like subscribed to.
[01:51:21] Mike: Yeah. And I feel like this is one part of it. Yeah. And like, I haven't solved it, but I'm also not like, uh, actively solving it. Yeah. You know? 'cause like if I was overweight and it stopped me from like, I don't know, not even playing ball, but like coming to work or coming to like, you know, getting tired from having discussions or like working on my things, then it's like a critical situation.
[01:51:44] Mike: But it's not a critical where like it limits me from, uh, like, I don't think the, I understand on a level that my being a little bit overweight is not the biggest problem that I have in my life. Yeah. That needs to be like, depressing issue. But it's still something that honestly comes up in my head, comes to my thoughts.
[01:51:59] Mike: Especially when you go to the gym, you see attractive girls, like, oh, damn, that's, that's, that's spam I know. Coming 
[01:52:08] Joe: at you. And it's, it's addicting to not click on the spam. You know, like sometimes that Oh, for sure. Trigger. But like, 
[01:52:14] Mike: I think, I think, um, if you make a conscious effort of using vanity, like we leverage vanity at that moment Yeah.
[01:52:21] Mike: To accomplish a particular goal. Mm-hmm. I think it's, it's harmless more so Yeah. Than harmful. 
[01:52:26] Mike: Yeah. 
[01:52:27] Mike: You know what I mean? We had a particular goal on it. We leveraged it. Yeah. We did. To, you know, to attract a certain thing, to do certain thing with it, to see certain things, learn certain lessons Yeah. About ourselves, uh, to figure out what it is and what it's not.
[01:52:42] Mike: I, I, I, I also feel 
[01:52:44] Toliy: that, like, in, in that journey, I feel like what, what happens is that like, um, like the more that you start thinking, the more like, uh, things you realize that you're subscribed to that you didn't even know. They're like, oh, I got the subscription to this, I got the subscription to this. So it's not necessarily that like there's new problems popping up.
[01:53:00] Toliy: These things already exist. Mm-hmm. Just as you think more, there's gonna be more naturally, not because you're attracting more, but just because you're Yeah. Seeing more. Of course. But what, what happens? And I feel like, um, at least for me, a difficult thing to ma to manage is, um, the relationship with time when, when it comes to those things, right.
[01:53:21] Toliy: Like, I think that if you have the wrong relationship to time mm-hmm. With, with time, like, like for example, like, like, uh, like, I don't know, like the ability to like beat yourself or to like, or, or, or to like do those kinds of things. Right. Or like, you see girls at the gym or whatever Right. And you want chin out or whatever.
[01:53:43] Toliy: Right, right. And, and, and, uh, stuff like that. Right. And, um, like I, I feel like a lot, lots of times in those scenarios we have like the wrong relationship of time as to like what speed is Okay. And not okay for. Things to go. And I often find that like when you're in this like rush or ti or like you put a self-imposed time pressure mm-hmm.
[01:54:07] Toliy: On doing something like not only does it drag on much longer mm-hmm. But you suffer like so much more from it that when you just like, yeah. More like, uh, yeah. Just like, let go of it or just like live it and like it's, it is, yeah. Like to me, a a lot of these different problems we talk about are like all this pressure hookers of time.
[01:54:28] Toliy: Yeah. Right. Where they're like, we suddenly, or like, not even realizing, like just imposing ourselves of like, things we need to do or things we need to solve or like, like you said, right. Like if you're dealing with different things, like this is not an important thing Yeah. To put out, but maybe you saw something that made you think of something and now you automatically not.
[01:54:47] Toliy: Yeah. Like I said, I go to the gym, obviously there's a lot of stimulant, 
[01:54:50] Mike: so like, you know, look a certain type of way. Yeah. Everybody's in shape. Everybody's looking good. Like Right. Obviously it's gonna get to your head like, oh damn. Like, I wanna look at this too, you know? Correct. Yeah. That's a thing. And I, I understand that.
[01:55:02] Toliy: Yeah. And, and, and by even making that thought and thinking about that, that moment when that happens, I think without even realizing it, you put like a timer that turns on. 
[01:55:11] Mike: Yes. Because he's, and it just ticks and it just ticks and ticks and ticks. But I think that he can not hack it, but more tap into a more organic thing that is still gonna get him there by a side effect.
[01:55:25] Mike: Meaning like said, yeah, but I'll say that I don't feel like pressured that like, yo, I gotta like lose this weight fast and get a girl. Mm-hmm. Okay. It's not the thought, that's not the thought in my head. Yeah. But I feel like the moment I feel like I want to crack it so I don't have to be bound by the vanity of looking.
[01:55:39] Mike: Yeah. But I still feel like 
[01:55:40] Toliy: the moment when you see something, 
[01:55:43] Mike: I want to crack the thing, I would like to crack it, uh, so that it doesn't, uh, so I'm no longer suffering because of my vanity for the looking a certain way. Like, I want to remove that from my life. I wanna understand the truth. What's making?
[01:55:56] Mike: You 
[01:55:56] James: wanna crack it now? 
[01:55:59] Mike: Uh, the fact that my stupid mind wants to solve it, but my conscious mind knows that it's not something needs to be solved. That's not, it's not a valuable thing. Yeah. 
[01:56:10] Toliy: But I feel like the moment when you feel that way at the gym where you see something and a thought happens, I do feel like unconsciously you are, it possible.
[01:56:19] Toliy: I'm 
[01:56:20] Mike: telling you, I don't feel like, yo, I'm gonna rush. Like I gotta meet a girl or something like that. Uh, like when I see that, but it's possible. It's something Yeah. 
[01:56:27] Toliy: I, I, I, I know what, what, what you're talking about there. And I, I, I feel like in that moment, like it may not be like afterwards. Yeah. But I feel like in that moment mm-hmm.
[01:56:36] Toliy: You feel like you need to drop that 50 tomorrow? 
[01:56:38] Mike: Yeah. Maybe. I, I'm, like I said, I don't feel like that, like I don't have a thing in my head because I know I have other things that are more pressing, but also much more recently, like I. I, I think I've been on an approach where like, I also know those things that are more pressing, they're not gonna get solved overnight.
[01:56:56] Mike: So I also have a more pa patient kind of approach to it. Yeah. So not like I have, I don't feel like this shit is solved, but in a way, like, uh, the other issues outside of the way, like, I understand they're gonna take time and I'm not pressuring myself to solve them and I'm living my life, you know? Yeah. I feel 
[01:57:13] Toliy: like I, I, I, I also feel like understanding the scope of solving something is to a degree, partially solving something.
[01:57:20] Mike: Yeah, sure. Sure. Right. 'cause like if you have accepted, that's how I feel. But I also tell myself like, yo, you haven't solved it. You're just know. How do you have to approach it? Like, before, when I solve something, I'd be like, alright, I gotta get this done, like quick. Now I'm like, yo, I gotta get this done.
[01:57:35] Mike: And like, I'm gonna take my space. I'm gonna do it the right way. I'm gonna think about it. I'm gonna talk to you guys about it. I'm gonna be patient here because there's no rush to solve it. Like, even the situation with my business stuff, I'm not buzzing, invited every day because I also know that hey, one is, I get tired.
[01:57:52] Mike: It's a mentally exhausting thing. Then physically I don't wanna do stuff, you know? Uh, I'm drained. It's overwhelming. So like, why I don't need to rush? So now I'm like, YM gonna respect myself and I'm gonna take my time, whatever it takes to solve it. It took me 30 years, 30 plus years to get here. Like. Yeah.
[01:58:09] Mike: Why should I rush solve it in, you know, in, in five weeks or before you did because you have different priorities or whatever. Yes. But because of the fact that you've learned new priorities. Yes. Now you know how to put yourself first. Yes. Versus that you're still learning that little balance, but it's also 
[01:58:24] Toliy: coming to like a prob like, like a, like a war with like a, like a water gun.
[01:58:28] Toliy: Right. Like if you took 30 years to get you there, like you thinking that like you could just solve this over like, you know, like a few weeks or days. Yeah. That's ridiculous. It's like you're bringing a water gun to a bazooka fight. Like, in a way you're also taking too much response. In a way. It sounds ridiculous, 
[01:58:44] Mike: but I recognize that actually there's no problem there.
[01:58:46] Mike: Like in a, in a James way. Yeah. Like the problem is there, but it's not a pressing problem. Yeah. Whatever problems I have, like with my business, with my dad, that's a good, there's no fire for him. That works for him. I don't know if that's the truth about it. Right. Like it's a great justification. No, I think it's a coping mechanism.
[01:59:01] Mike: What does Yeah. You think is any truth in it? There is truth in, it works for you, for me, but I'm subjective objectively. Is there truth that like, yo, the issues that I'm having, they're nothing's, there's no, no, nothing's on fire. Nothing that I need to, like, kill myself or trust myself. I think if you examine those things, I think they're objectively are not, there's no fire.
[01:59:19] Mike: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I don't think so. But however, they, they are fire for you sometimes. Sometimes, yes. Sometimes. 
[01:59:25] James: What does solving it look like to you? 
[01:59:28] Mike: What is losing the weight? 
[01:59:30] James: Yeah. This problem that you have. Like what, what, what does solving look like? Removing the value 
[01:59:35] Mike: from looking a specific way will help me to solve that issue.
[01:59:37] Mike: You once, if I keep buying into that thing, that I need to look a certain way to get a certain type of looking girl. Uh, if I keep buying into that, I'll continue to, uh, be suffer from it. Yeah. Once I, like, I'm not fully convinced to the one side or the other, and that's why I'm like going back and forth.
[01:59:56] Mike: What type of attitude would you have when you lost the weight question? That's a trick question. All I'm trick, I'm trying to trick him. Oh, okay. What type of attitude would I have? I dunno. Well, you, well, why you say out loud? 
[02:00:11] Joe: I don't know. 
[02:00:11] Mike: Yeah. 
[02:00:13] Joe: Well, I mean, I think, I think you feel good by yourself. There's the way, like, you wanna be healthy, you're healthy, but you could be healthier.
[02:00:20] Joe: Yeah. You know? But does anyone have to define what you need to look like? I don't need to see like Apac abs and your body's like ripped to shreds. No. But can you lose more weight, you know, and get even to a better place? Sure. Yeah. You know, I think you'll feel better regardless. And also you know that you're gonna feel more.
[02:00:40] Joe: Confident just because of That's the thing, Joe. But the thing is, like 
[02:00:44] Mike: in my head what you're saying, that confidence should not be based off of that. Correct. And that's why I can't reasonable his reasonable mind. Joe cannot engage a physical activity to a mental Yes. State of mind. Yeah. Those two, not bridge, that's the issue that I'm having.
[02:00:58] Mike: That's why I feel like I'm not, he's smart enough knows now the other guys like, yo motherfucker, we gonna get gonna a certain type of way, bro. Gonna, you know what I mean? Can't trick yourself. I can't trick myself anymore. That's why I need to solve it. It's the same thing. You 300 
[02:01:12] Toliy: pants are not making you feel better, right?
[02:01:15] Toliy: No, 
[02:01:15] Joe: I don't care if these are k uh, Payless or Kmart, whatever your Walmart. Yeah. Let 
[02:01:19] Tom: me ask you one question. Go ahead. Is there ever a point in time when you're like, wow, that, that choice to buy these sweatpants? Um, I regret they're great. I regret 
[02:01:30] Joe: spending the money I spent on one outfit. It was a jacket, boots and pants, and I went to this event.
[02:01:36] Joe: It was, it was like $1,500, like the jacket, the pants. But let's say if you're not pressed to do that, I was almost, is there 
[02:01:43] Tom: a favorite, you know, for example, sweatshirt, favorite hat, you love hats. Do you regret a hat? You thought that was like the Yankees or something like that? I regret it. And you, you actually respect the choice because for you it means something or something.
[02:01:55] Tom: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's an object that has meaning. Sure. So for Mike, Mike, it could be that sweatpants have meaning. But it also could be that, I'm just saying the thing is that sometimes things can be true, though they're not. Correct. Right. It's like you can be biased because of this. You could be done, but not idea that you, you have a vanity, you know, like there's some vanity.
[02:02:15] Tom: So if you drop the vanity, maybe you also drop the side effects or whatever. Like, I, I think vanity for me, I think, um, the housewives in New Jersey or something, it's like you have nice things and then you become resentful towards others who have be better things. 'cause you compare yourself. 
[02:02:30] James: So I wanna get, get back to what you were saying.
[02:02:33] James: Oh, thank you so much. Saying like, you kept on, I kept on hearing like, uh, as you were speaking, like resolve, resolve. And I feel like possibly at a certain point in time you, you had an image of what resolving the problem is. Mm-hmm. And kind of subconsciously or unconsciously, right. That idea of solve, just the word in itself kind of translated over.
[02:02:56] James: Although you're like kind of changing your identity the way you do things. I think you have to throw away even the idea of you having to solve anything because the idea itself is making you kind of climb a ladder or rush towards it. So I feel like you kind of have to unlearn and throw away the word solve and forget about solving in general to actually understand.
[02:03:20] James: So I, I, I think, 
[02:03:21] Mike: I think, yeah. Yes. Because, but through that process, he is relearning how to love himself. Mm-hmm. 
[02:03:27] James: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But I think once it comes to that point, when he throws that word, like solve, like yeah. He has to solve that. Well, that 
[02:03:32] Mike: can only be through, uh, understanding, attaining the knowledge and understanding thing.
[02:03:37] Mike: Yeah. And seeing, we said, which is when I'm sober, I see like, yo, this shit is not important. Hundred percent. But sometimes when I'm drunk, I'm like, oh, shit. Like, is this important? Yeah. And I'm that like, I'm having that battle. Before I probably didn't have that battle. I was like, yo, how often is there, is there vanity?
[02:03:52] Mike: Yo, how about this? Is there, is there, is there big enough hangover of being vanity drunk in order to solve it? Then I think that's what it's coming to. Yeah. Because in a certain way, right? Like I feel like I'm making my life so much better. Yeah. And then this is, I like, oh, you're just watching car racing all day and Yeah.
[02:04:11] Mike: You know, sitting on the couch. Yeah. To me, I'm like, I taking a beast. I feel
[02:04:19] Mike: the big black beast. Yeah. I feel like I'm solving problems, but at a comfortable pace. But I'm also given time for myself to do things that I like and also to relax. Because those things take a lot and they require a lot. And it's get us a long run yourself. Yeah. You know, like. Uh, I was saying about like, Dennis sees me as doing something.
[02:04:39] Mike: Yeah. Like I'm just not doing shit all day. Yes. You know, like I'm just relaxing watching racing or, but you actually doing something very, but I'm doing something, but because of, uh, other parts of the day, I'm thinking about shit. Yeah. Trying to solve problems and, well, that's the difference between CEO and the, you know, whatever you want.
[02:04:56] Mike: No, I'm not gonna say that loud. Only compliment. So, yeah. Like, I feel like those things, that's why I'm looking to solve it now, because now I have more bandwidth and I can more so dissect myself and I'm more interested in dissecting myself and the problems that I'm real with. Mm. So that's why I'm thinking about these things, like, hey, do I want to keep being a vanity guy and like, wanting to lose weight by forcing myself like to do certain things or dieting.
[02:05:23] Mike: Yeah. It's funny. It's funny. Or do I want to crack it mentally? Yeah. And then it is just solve itself, you know, what's happening to me. Uh, it is a good point. It probably relates to this, like, I find it more and more difficult, right? As we talk about these types of conversations. Now, if you, if I'm addicted to these types of conversations and I'm enjoying and charging up these conversations or doing whatever it is that I really like mm-hmm.
[02:05:43] Mike: Small things like picking up pillows or a stone or whatever becomes extremely difficult. It's a reverse thing that's happening to me. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know what I mean? That's like, it's like pulling teeth from me. Say that again. 
[02:05:55] Tom: Can 
[02:05:55] James: you, 
[02:05:55] Mike: so, yeah. Emergency, if I'm valuing, if my values are in the things that, like these types of things mm-hmm.
[02:06:01] Mike: Where I'm thinking about. You know, ideas or trying to change Yeah. For the better and stuff like that. The things that go against it, like picking out vanity things for, for whatever it is, is becoming very difficult for me to do, to engage in Oh yeah. Yeah. It's like I see that and I'm like, I'm burnt out baby.
[02:06:19] Mike: You all right? I'm, I'm burnt out like one store, we're done. Yeah. Because like, thinking about that stuff, it hurts almost. 
[02:06:25] James: Yeah. I feel like I, I feel like that it becomes burden a lot in a way. I feel like me trying to lose, I hate 
[02:06:30] Mike: me. Trying to lose weight now is like I'm committing a sin against myself.
[02:06:33] Mike: Yes. Yeah. Especially doing it that way. Getting the glimpse of self it, the way that I, like, I would think to, to do it and doing it for those reasons is a sin against myself because I, who I would like to become and who I'm trying to become cannot buy into that shit. 'cause I know it doesn't matter. You have like a universal truth that you, that you now know about yourself, but I haven't like fully like, switched over and that's, that's why the struggle.
[02:06:55] Mike: That's a battle. Yeah. The struggle is there. So that's why that's a hard thing breaking into light. 
[02:06:59] Joe: But you knocked down a, a big chunk of that wall. You know which one? The gray wall vagina 
[02:07:04] Mike: stop with the gassing him up, Joe. No, he 
[02:07:06] Joe: has, yeah. He, he is obviously still on the same, you, you're still on the journey, but you know, you're at least going the right direction.
[02:07:13] Joe: Yeah. Mike, 
[02:07:14] Mike: I definitely, I agree with him. Yeah. 100%. But yeah, I think you know the level of where you want to be as, uh, when it comes to the finish of happy. Yes. And ultimately, until you get there, don't, that's, that's what line came from. Don't take, yeah. Do. Is it okay if I'm skinny, but in shit shape? Or am I fat, but in good health?
[02:07:32] Mike: Yeah. You know, like the thing here. Yeah. Right. Where is that line drawn? Yeah. You know? Yeah. Um, and that's like a vanity question, right? Yeah. I think you, you right now in this society, you can find a lot of people who are skinny and Google bad health, but very bad. Mental health, mental health, physical health, all kinds of health.
[02:07:50] Mike: Yeah. So when they open their mouth, their beauty disappears. Yeah. Yeah. It's true. Well, it's true. James is sitting there like the doctor's chair, like it is psychologist, like a therapist sitting there across the legs. Like, you serious today? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Alright, so we don't have any final thoughts for vanity.
[02:08:15] Mike: Uh, we'll start with Mike.
[02:08:22] Mike: Yeah. I think, um, it just keeps coming back to the same thing, but I, I think it's important to always see things where they are or try to see things, try to get to the core of what actually is happening in, in all situations. So living and examined life, it applies to every aspect. You know, like vanity, not vanity, um, and gauge yourself, you know, have a gauge for yourself.
[02:08:45] Mike: Yeah. And to see how are you looking at the picture. Yeah. And why are you looking at it that way? So I think it's super important to, uh, look, look within and. Observe what's going on in the mine. Tom, I would go to you, but I know you need a little bit more time, so we're gonna go the other way. Alright.
[02:09:04] Mike: Thank you, Dennis. Yeah. Max, 
[02:09:08] James: you said best. Go ahead, James. Um, I don't have any final thoughts. 
[02:09:15] Joe: Um, I agree with what Mike said. 
[02:09:17] Mike: All right. So, uh, pop quiz, what did he say? Wow.
[02:09:32] Tom: Um, 
[02:09:33] Joe: it is like a high school moment. I mean, neath underneath the vanity, you gotta, you know, there's, there's layers of things which we already spoke about, especially in my case. Yeah. And you have to, Hey, that's, that's 
[02:09:48] Mike: all right. Uh, I think that in this thing, uh, yeah, if you, like you said Mike, to keep, keep on examining yourself, you have to have courage to do that.
[02:09:58] Mike: Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Because, because like you said, the person that's doing the tricking, he's full of shit and he's a fucking fearful fucker. Yeah. He's a fearful fucker. Yeah. And if you can find courage to bring him out to light, you know, he's gonna be kicking and screaming. Mm-hmm. You know, he's gonna put as much resistance as possible, but I think that's necessary because then you liberate yourself and you get glimpses of, uh, self, uh, love that you're experiencing now.
[02:10:24] Mike: And I think that's amazing. Uh, yeah, you, 
[02:10:30] Toliy: um, I, I, I think when it comes to, you know, just vanity and, and, and, uh, different stuff, like on this topic in general, I feel that like, um, like if you just keep, like solving some of these things and like getting yourself over the hump is, is, is for sure hard. I, I, I think, um, but I feel like the reason it's hard is because like, somewhere deep inside of you, you've set certain, like rules and understandings that like you believe are true.
[02:11:01] Toliy: And I feel like oftentimes you're working within those rules and understanding, trying to solve something where I feel like maybe a more effective approach might be just to like, uh, re or try to go about like, uh, relearning the rules and, and, and seeing of what's going on. Because oftentimes, like you have a problem and you feel like there's this wall in front of you, but it's just a wall that like you somewhere put in front of you.
[02:11:28] Toliy: Like you, you, you drew this wall and you could easily just like erase it, but you don't feel that way because like, you actually feel that this like a permanent wall at, at that moment. That's because like you've set certain rules of like, engagement in the world. So, um, I, I, I, I feel like, like a good, good approach might be just to like, try to step back.
[02:11:50] Toliy: And maybe just try to observe and see what's going on. Mm-hmm. And try to get to a point where you can, um, rewrite these self-imposed rules that like you've, uh, created to begin with. And then you'll come to realize that like, there's no problem here at all. Like, there, like, I, I, I think it's also more of like what James is saying, like not trying to go about solving a problem, but oftentimes there's just no problem at all.
[02:12:14] Toliy: But it's hard to just like, yeah. You can't just say that. Like, you can't, you obviously need the understanding, the talking and the discussing and learning behind it. Mm-hmm. But, um, I, I, I think it's difficult con concept to like grasp in, in our, in our own individual problems. It's much easier like for me to look at you or you to look at me.
[02:12:34] Toliy: Yeah. Because those, those don't, when I look at your walls, your walls are fake to me, when you look at my walls, my walls are also fake to you. They're not real. Yes. And I think if we continue talking, we can combine probably our world and help us and help each other erase these like walls that we've created that are just not, they're just bs.
[02:12:54] Toliy: Right. And, and, and like again, like the more you share, the more that you talk, some of these problems become funnier and funnier. It's to people because they're at the end of the day to all of us. All, all of our problems to, to everybody else are just ridiculous, are just ridiculous things. They're not problems.
[02:13:10] Toliy: Right. Like you telling Joe that, like you need to lose weight to find like a particular girl. He might find that ridiculous. Mm-hmm. For you it's a problem. Right. Or maybe vice versa. One of his problems might be ridiculous to you. Right. That's question. Like, he has to wait until Ilana is gone to drink his coke.
[02:13:26] Toliy: Right. That, that might be ridiculous to you or me. Yeah. Right. Um, but so, so, so yeah. I think if we continue to talk and share, we'll be able to mutually, I think create a world that we can all live in together where Yeah. Like anything that we want it, it could just happen like that. Like that that's actually real because it, it, it is real and you know, it's real.
[02:13:45] Toliy: Because the same way could happen in the reverse way. What, what whatever you did to yourself, like you did this to yourself. Mm-hmm. So like, you have to, like, there's no way to agree. Like there's no way not to agree that like if you put yourself into this position mm-hmm. Like then like you have to have the, the reverse power Right.
[02:14:02] Toliy: To get yourself out of the position. I agree. Yeah. That has to be true. Mm-hmm. Right. So, um, 
[02:14:07] Mike: did you stop babbling? 
[02:14:08] Denis: Yeah. 
[02:14:08] Mike: Oh, cool. That's why when you are talking about that, what he's saying is that I think friendships are so important in these types of things. Mm-hmm. Because if you learn how to trust and try to ous those little things, you can have leverage from your friends, your friends that could be able to help you out.
[02:14:22] Mike: Percent. That's why there's a quote on that little teabag that you always drink. Friendship is a sheltering treat. 
[02:14:28] Denis: Yep. 
[02:14:29] James: Thank you there. There's also something, um, I forgot. Somebody was asking, uh, this person who's uber successful and they were like, what's, what's the hardest part? Or like, what's the best thing about it?
[02:14:40] James: The beginning of, of the process, the middle or the end, and the person said, it's actually the company. 
[02:14:46] Music: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 
[02:14:48] James: So friendship elucidates a lot. I mean, just sheds light a lot to the process mm-hmm. Of understanding vanity. Oh, yeah. And it brings me back to this idea, this guy, I'm not sure if you heard of him, Ram Das.
[02:15:00] James: He said, at the end of the day, we're all pretending, pretending. And at the end of the day, what we're really doing is becoming nobody. Once we become nobody, that's when we actually understand it. Yeah. I feel like at some point, 
[02:15:13] Toliy: like we all to some level bought into, uh, some level of pretending, like some level of pretending to then have the opportunity to not pretend.
[02:15:21] Toliy: Like, I feel like that's always a mindset, like lose the weight to then be myself like, or like have this clothing to then be this. Like we all have these like little things that like Mike might be convinced that he loses his weight, then he'll get this girl. Right. It's like until you've actually, um, had it, you're not convinced that like, this isn't what you need at, at at times.
[02:15:42] Toliy: But I feel like deep, deep down, we, we somehow bought into like that like yeah. We, we need to pretend in order to be ourselves almost. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like untangling that is probably what, what we're trying to do, you know, day after day and. And like trying to figure out like, like how is, how are these things like, um, because I, I, I, I definitely believe that like, a lot of these things are like, definitely come from our like childhoods and the way that like, I mean, I, I, I mean like, they always say that like, like children's brains are like insanely, like they pick up to so many different things and like, they're like a sponge.
[02:16:17] Toliy: Yeah. So like unlearning these things that we unconsciously almost learned, like picking up a conscious habit is I, I think a thousand x more difficult than an unconscious one. 
[02:16:29] Mike: Yeah. So can you explain to us the, the reason for the oversized skirt that you're wearing?
[02:16:38] Toliy: Comfortable. Thank 
[02:16:39] Mike: you. 
[02:16:40] Tom: Being honest. Yeah. Tom, what you got? And 
[02:16:42] Toliy: if I was sitting here to tie it, tie it up, then I wouldn't be able to talk philosophy. And my pants are super tied in. Yeah. You have bloated and shit. Yeah. Bloated cut like mike feeling right now, right 
[02:16:50] Tom: in those tight pants. I feel great.
[02:16:55] Mike: And I also don't look like a old Muslim woman.
[02:17:04] Mike: Tom. I would love for you to share your thoughts, but I think we, we continue to share 
[02:17:11] Tom: your thoughts on your life. So go ahead. Yeah. 
[02:17:12] Tom: Every time. Every time. Uh, yeah. I, I, I, I liked what Tee said about, uh, the relationship with time thing. I really do believe in like, dealing with things. And lately it's been more like two weeks off.
[02:17:28] Tom: Sorry. It's been more immediate, you know? And then you guys know, I drove a Tesla and like, no, the audience knows. And, and I, I asked questions about it and everything, but I think that really once I made the decision, I stuck with it. It, it worked out. So I think that just giving it like attention makes things work out.
[02:17:46] Tom: You're taking off your 
[02:17:46] Mike: own self-made handcuffs, 
[02:17:48] Tom: questioning it, giving it attention. Yeah. And Tom, 
[02:17:50] Mike: you also, I'll give you props because you actually did bring that, um, situation to light. You asked me for your, for the opinion as well. You asked us as well, and we get, we were honest with you and you did make a better decision, better choice for yourself.
[02:18:02] Mike: So, I mean, that's that's good. Yeah. Thank you for sharing Tom. 
[02:18:06] Tom: Yeah. Welcome to, uh, yeah, 
[02:18:08] Mike: to the 
[02:18:08] Tom: real world. And I feel good. It's like, now I want to get clipping away. Now he wants to buy another car. Yes. I, I, Hey, I won't say that. I, I haven't thought about It's good. Listen, that's, that's, that's only thing we can also ask if, if I choose not to do that, what other kinds of vanity might crop up?
[02:18:26] Tom: Who else? What kind? Yeah. What kind of vanity question is Yeah. 
[02:18:30] Joe: What car does an 18-year-old like? Yeah. Now there's a Tesla. Yeah. No, they fuck with Tesla hard. Yeah. My final word is do what makes you happy. And if you, you know, they say being yourself is what's really cool, you know, as if you feel like you're really being yourself.
[02:18:50] Joe: You true, honest. Self. That's when you're most happy, then you're, you know, it's so easy to live by. You know, you're not living by anyone else's standards. Figure out what your true self is and what you know, what you think is cool, and you'll be cool or you'll be happy, you know? Mm-hmm. That's it. Thank you guys.
[02:19:10] Joe: Thank you. 
[02:19:11] Mike: This was great. 
[02:19:12] Eldar: Good topic. Definitely good topic. Good shit. Yeah.