ÜBER DIESE EPISODE
What comes after the Experience Economy? According to internationally acclaimed author and management advisor B. Joseph Pine II, the next competitive advantage is not simply creating memorable customer experiences. It is helping customers achieve meaningful, lasting change.
In this episode of The Customer Service Revolution Podcast, John DiJulius talks with Joe Pine, coauthor of the landmark book The Experience Economy and author of The Transformation Economy: Guiding Customers to Achieve Their Aspirations. Their conversation explores how organizations can move beyond delivering products, services, and experiences to become true transformation businesses.
What Is the Transformation Economy?The Transformation Economy is the next stage in the progression of economic value. Businesses create greater value when they guide customers toward outcomes that change them in a lasting way—helping them become healthier, more prosperous, more knowledgeable, more purposeful, or closer to the person they aspire to be.
Joe explains the progression clearly: businesses extract commodities, make goods, deliver services, stage experiences, and guide transformations. In a transformation business, the customer is not simply the buyer. The customer is the product, because the value lies in the change the customer achieves.
Why Customer Experience Alone Is No Longer EnoughMemorable customer experiences remain important, but experiences are increasingly being commoditized. The next opportunity is to design experiences that are meaningful, transporting, and ultimately transformative.
John and Joe discuss how this applies across customer experience, customer service, consulting, healthcare, financial services, education, salons, retail, hospitality, and leadership. The common question is not, "What service do we provide?" It is, "Who does our customer want to become, and how can we guide that journey?"
How Businesses Can Create Lasting Customer Transformation Start With the Customer's AspirationMove beyond the immediate transaction and uncover the outcome the customer truly values. An accountant may help a client achieve greater prosperity. A salon may help a guest feel renewed and ready to reenter the world with confidence. A consultant should not stop after making recommendations; the work should continue until the client can implement and sustain meaningful change.
Design a Journey, Not a Single MomentTransformations usually require a sequence of experiences. Joe introduces encapsulation: preparing customers before an experience, helping them reflect afterward, and supporting integration over time. This structure turns an isolated event into progress toward an aspiration.
Align Pricing With OutcomesServices traditionally charge for time and activities. Transformation businesses increasingly align their fees with the outcomes customers value. Joe shares examples of organizations exploring outcome-based pricing and explains why it forces a provider to focus on lasting results rather than completed tasks.
The Connection Between Customer Experience and Employee ExperienceOrganizations cannot help customers flourish unless they also help employees flourish. John shares his philosophy that team members should earn more than they thought possible—while the money becomes the least valuable thing they gain from working for the organization.
The goal is an employee experience that helps people become better leaders, spouses, parents, professionals, and human beings. When employees experience growth and purpose themselves, they are better prepared to guide meaningful customer transformation.
How AI Can Support the Transformation EconomyAI can help businesses customize experiences, provide coaching between human interactions, offer encouragement, and recommend the next best step. Joe cautions that the strongest model does not replace human guides. It uses AI to extend and personalize the transformation journey while human judgment, accountability, and connection remain central.
Key Takeaways-
Transformations are effectual outcomes that change people in a lasting way.
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The next evolution of customer experience is helping customers become who they want to be.
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Businesses in health and well-being, wealth and prosperity, knowledge and wisdom, and purpose and meaning are natural transformation businesses.
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AI can strengthen coaching and customization, especially between interactions with human guides.
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Consultants create more value when they help clients implement and sustain change instead of stopping with recommendations.
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Preparing customers before an experience, prompting reflection afterward, and supporting ongoing integration can make an experience transformative.
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Outcome-based pricing aligns what a business charges with what the customer actually values.
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Customer transformation and employee transformation are inseparable: employees need the support and purpose required to flourish, too.
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"You deliver services, you stage experiences, you guide transformations." — B. Joseph Pine II
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"Effectual outcomes that change individuals in a lasting way." — B. Joseph Pine II
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"Every superconsumer is on a quest." — B. Joseph Pine II
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"Businesses only change from the inside out." — B. Joseph Pine II
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"Better, better, better. Transform, transform, transform." — B. Joseph Pine II
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"We want you to make more money than you ever thought possible. However, we want the money you made to be the least valuable thing you got from working here." — John DiJulius
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00:59 — Meet B. Joseph Pine II
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02:12 — Was The Experience Economy ahead of its time?
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04:21 — The difference between experiences and transformations
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06:48 — How AI can support coaching and customization
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09:40 — Memorable, meaningful, transporting, and transformative experiences
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12:03 — Applying transformation to consulting and salons
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19:56 — Third places, human connection, and the "chrysalis"
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20:37 — The four spheres of transformation
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23:57 — Brands creating transformation: Calibrate and Eataly
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27:26 — Why employee transformation matters
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31:27 — The Transformation Toolkit
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32:17 — Three ways to begin building a transformation business
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34:23 — Encapsulation: preparation, reflection, and integration
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35:34 — Purpose, human flourishing, and the future of business
B. Joseph Pine II is an internationally acclaimed author, speaker, and management advisor. He has addressed the World Economic Forum, the original TED conference, the Consumer Electronics Show, and South by Southwest. He cofounded Strategic Horizons LLP to help businesses conceive and design new ways of adding value to their economic offerings. His books include The Transformation Economy, The Experience Economy, Infinite Possibility, Authenticity, and Mass Customization.
Resources Mentioned
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Order The Transformation Economy: https://strategichorizons.com/books-and-ideas/publications/
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Explore the Transformation Toolkit: https://strategichorizons.com/integration/
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Learn more about Joe Pine and Strategic Horizons: https://strategichorizons.com/
ROX Dashboard: https://thedijuliusgroup.com/rox-dashboard/
The DiJulius Group Methdology: https://thedijuliusgroup.com/x-commandment-methodology/
Company Service Aptitude Test: https://thedijuliusgroup.com/c-sat-forms/individual-c-sat/
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Experience Revolution Membership: https://thedijuliusgroup.com/membership/
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Contacts: Lindsey@thedijuliusgroup.com , Claudia@thedijuliusgroup.com
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