Cursed Creatures: Werewolves Part I - Ep. 23

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So, this idea of being turned into a wolf as punishment goes back to like the core of human beginnings.
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And also toxic relationships go back to the very beginning.
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I know, I know.
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Welcome, accursed ones, to Cursed Ish, the podcast that cheerfully welcomes the full moon shining a light on the weird and mysterious corners of our world, then immediately regrets it when something in the still dark shadows starts howling back.
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I'm Daniel Stevens.
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And I'm Angela Mattis.
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So, Angela, to start today's episode, I'm just gonna ask you a classic question.
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Did you have any cursed events happen to you this week?
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Have I been cursed at all this last week?
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I feel like all of my curses are so lame because it's all related to the plane travel that I do.
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Like if you fly a lot, like then your life does feel a bit cursed because you, I mean, I get delayed a lot.
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Like I got delayed like by four hours this last week.
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I was supposed to get home at 6 30 p.m.
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and I rolled through the door at 11.
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Um, you know what is the you know what's a niche plane curse though?
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Um when the airport is like really busy and they have to push you to an international terminal for the gate, and like you will walk, not joking, a mile to get back to the regular terminals.
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And this happened to me last week where I like had had the perfect flight, like I got upgraded to first class, and it was a long enough flight that like we got a meal and it was like a whole service, and I was like, Oh, I'm just like living alive.
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I'm blessed.
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And then they were like, or we're gonna be uh boarding or we're gonna be landing and going to an international gate because right now, you know, the airport is really busy, and I and it all just went to hell, and then I literally walked for half an hour just to get to the see.
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To me, you say that I hate when I get to an airport and there's like I I don't care how far where I have to fight to get to the other side of it.
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I hate airports that don't let you walk.
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They make you take a tram or a train or something, and I'm like, just let me walk.
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I don't want to wait here and cram onto this.
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And like once we landed at the Denver airport late at night and the whole train system was broken and it was just chaos.
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There were just people shoulder to shoulder everywhere, and I was just like, why can't we all just walk?
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They've done it to themselves.
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The the Denver airport cursed whole other story.
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But I will take a blurst event when they have like the moving sidewalks.
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Those are there's not enough of those in this world.
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I love those.
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You just like zip along and it's like you do feel like a wizard sometimes when you're just like gliding past everyone.
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So this is my pseudo-cursed life.
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Yeah.
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Well, I only asked because I was a little on the lookout for some residual bad luck this week.
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I was a little worried that I was channeling some future bad luck.
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Yes, mea culpa, if you had any bad luck, but it sounds like you were stretching.
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You sound like you had a fine week.
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So just a little fun fact about this episode.
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So we're recording today, someday in what will be the past, and this will premiere on someday what will be today.
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Are you following me?
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Yeah, sure.
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I might be overcomplicating this.
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I've never done that in the past.
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Yeah, no, never.
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But what I'm saying is, so this will premiere on a day that is a full moon.
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That's literally all you had to say.
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What was the whole part for?
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Daniel, it's called the English language.
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Have you heard of it?
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Learn it for fuck's sake.
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And this obviously was not something that I noticed last second at 4 a.m.
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while doing research for this episode, and then I looked at the schedule and shuffled things around and made this one land on the day it's gonna land.
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Absolutely.
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There's like so many things going on here, Daniel.
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Like, what hours do you keep, you vampire?
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Well, okay, that's a whole other episode, probably.
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Today we're talking about werewolves, Angela.
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Like, keep it straight.
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Oh.
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Oh, okay, it's all coming full circle.
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So we're talking about werewolves this week.
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So this full moon premiere is something that was obviously foretold centuries in the past.
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It was meant to be.
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I know.
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Well, honestly, when I chose to set this on a full moon, I was like, oh, how perfect werewolves.
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We'll actually get to it.
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We're not gonna talk about full moons for a long time to get into this story.
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That's just a little pre- Honestly, I don't even know where where there's a curse here.
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So I'm totally coming in this blind of like, I never would have thought about werewolves.
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I am fully ready for you to school me.
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Although you don't have a very good track record.
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So far, English class has been not great.
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Let's move on to history.
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Uh okay, I was just gonna say, let's look at the history then.
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Where does this story of werewolves come from?
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You said right there you don't really understand how there's a curse there.
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The we'll get to the first examples of people who are werewolves.
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They were pretty much just cursed to turn into a werewolf.
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But the modern werewolf is a staple of horror and fantasy romance.
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It's just like one of the most well-known creatures in our culture.
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It is still a person cursed to transform via bite, maybe via something else, sometimes bloodline, sometimes it's a punishment, sometimes it's an affliction, you know, spread through scratches and bites, sometimes it's a deal with the devil, sometimes it's a secret family curse passed on through your bloodline.
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Um, sometimes a werewolf is just a vicious real monster that people make up stories about because the truth is too terrifying to deal with.
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So there's this idea that werewolves at their core is a curse to lose your humanity or to become something ferocious.
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I mean, your body is your one sacred, that's you.
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And to have that transformed out from under you is horrifying.
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Yeah, and as someone who turns into a little little bit of a bitch once a month for her life since teenager years, I think I understand a bit of and which also getting your period is called the curse.
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So Yes, yeah.
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Well, I will have you know I did not try to do any menstruation jokes when it came down to my werewolf research.
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I will leave that to you.
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Thank you for your consideration at this delicate time.
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You you brought us there.
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Thank you for mentioning.
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Um, yes, that that's obviously there's there are things about cycles and transformation and human biology.
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Uh there's there is stuff here that you can see why people maybe started to tell these stories.
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By modern times, there's a lot of baggage.
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Like I said, full moons, silver bullets, hairy-chested men dramatically ripping their shirts off in the forest.
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Are we gonna talk about sex this episode all the time?
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No, no, we probably won't.
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Oh, it's not gonna be another sexually charged one.
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Rats.
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You know, you have the you're the guide to your own story, but my my my plan is not sexually.
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Okay.
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Well my outline is quite PG 13.
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Uh, it was not to say there there are some horrifying things that we're gonna discuss, but not really.
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I'll try to keep it in my pants.
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You do your best.
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Okay, so before we get into all those modern things, let's to springboard ourselves into this lupine mess, let's start looking at the words we use to talk about werewolves.
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Okay.
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Okay, so linguistics class, professor.
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Yes, yes, yes, yes, we're going to linguistics.
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You know, I think there's always something so telling about the words we use and how they came from.
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It really always, to me, is so illustrative of the history.
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And so actually, when I was doing this research on etymology, there was something I always thought I knew about the history of English language, and I I found out how wrong I was.
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I had a sweet little sweet summer child moment of myself.
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Let me explain how I'm an idiot and how it relates to this.
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So werewolf comes from the old English word were meaning man, and then wolf W-U-L-F, self-explanatory.
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Um, so like literally man wolf, were wolf, man, wolf.
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Pretty simple, straightforward, no notes.
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Like, why am I talking about this even?
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It's straightforward.
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So this old English word for man, were, there was a uh complement for it for women called whiff.
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Also the term with man existed.
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And with man is where it turned into woman.
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Already suspicious that it's like, are we defining women based on their wifeness?
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With did not mean wife.
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It later turned into wife because then they turned woman to mean woman, and there was this extra word wife that was still around.
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But there is a lot of times where languages will just use the word woman to mean wife.
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Spanish does it.
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It's so like there's, yeah, I mean, the world, the history is sexist and awful.
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Yeah, it's about to get worse.
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For anyone listening and not watching, I'm just like mean mug and making faces.
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Here's where my little innocence came in.
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There's this thing you'll see sometimes.
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People talk about this where meaning man, and then whiff and wiffman, and they'll say that where man, meaning like male man is a word, and that man used to just be gender neutral.
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I always thought, like, oh, it's not that men just took the word and used it.
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It was just like a natural evolution of these whiffman, where man, and then women took that, and then where man lost the beginning.
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Words often just lose stuff.
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They shorten, they they lose consonants, they you know, turn multiple uh vowels into diphthongs, etc.
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Turns out none of that is right.
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There is no recorded history of the word where man ever.
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Wait, you just were spouting nonsense?
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Yeah, yeah, but you will see this like I'll see this on Reddit, I've seen it in like etymology stuff, I'll see it on videos.
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I've seen this so many places that like there used to be where man with man, and that uh, you know, and that kind of was talked a lot about when it comes to werewolves.
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Turns out it's not true.
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Man did used to be gender neutral, and then they just took it and started meaning men only.
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But like what about the whole whiff situation?
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That was just a separate evolution.
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So like they they started saying I had become a woman then.
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With whiffman just slowly turned into woman, and the two meanings of with and with man diverged and came to mean two different related, of course.
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I mean, biologically, they're in the past and everything, yes.
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But then I found an even worse thing.
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So I was like, okay, there goes my shattered idea of like English used to be so cool and gender neutral and all that.
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Then I learned that the word world, that were part of world, is the we're part of man.
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So world comes from the old English were meaning man and all meaning like age or life of.
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So like literally they're defining the world as like the age of men.
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And it's just like, God, it's so it went from like, oh, I thought it was nice, then I realized it was an idiot, then I realized it was even worse than I ever could have imagined.
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So it's just a whole curse of etymology.
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Yeah.
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It's truly just like never never let us astray before that hubris of men.
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So anyway, let's get away from this whole where wolf with man situation.
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Yeah.
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Let's look at another word you may have heard for this.
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Have you ever heard of a lycanthrope or lycanthropy?
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Yes, I have I have in the uh Harry Potter books.
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Oh, yes, yes, yes.
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So though that's another common word that people use for werewolves.
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Lycanthropy is such a nice word.
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Like you can say werewolfism, but that just doesn't have the same random.
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Okay, well, I'm a Rube because I feel like I was always pronouncing it.
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It's like one of those books, one of those words that you like only read in books and you never hear said out loud.
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So I thought it was like lycanthropy or like a lycanthrope.
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I don't know.
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I just was like saying it, like I was putting the wrong emphasis on the wrong syllable.
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No, I mean I I do believe the noun is lycanthrope.
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Like this werewolf is also a like he's a lycanthrope.
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Have I ever said this word out loud before in my life?
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I think it's usually just met used in lycanthro lycanthropy, lycanthropy.
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And I, you know, I think the pronunciations, I mean English vowel pronunciation is a mess.
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We're American, British people pronounce it differently.
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Australian, I mean Aluminium, yeah.
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I will never claim to determine how any word in English should be pronounced.
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Fair.
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Does anyone actually know there's no source of truth?
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If we want to get into it, no, there's no truth.
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English does not have a reigning body.
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Some languages do, French does, Spanish does, kinda wish English, but we don't.
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So there's no one to say this is right.
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It is just what people do.
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So that's the only way you can define what English is, is what we're actually doing with it.
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It's a whole thing.
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We could talk about this for ages.
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Anyway, so lycanthropy comes from the Greek.
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So that comes from Greek roots.
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That's lycos meaning wolf and anthropos meaning human, which is actually gender neutral.
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So the Greeks doing it right.
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And that's so much more badass sounding like anthropos is meaning human.
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Like, ooh, like I'm anthropos.
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Although let's not give the ancient Greeks much credit on their treatment of women.
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We've gone into some stories before.
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So yes.
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So, but but a small linguistic win.
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So using that Greek word, let's look at one of the first werewolves ever.
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That comes from Greek mythology.
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We're gonna go to King Lycaon.
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He was a king in Arcadia, which is on the Peloponnese Peninsula for specifics.
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He's been talked about a lot, most famously by your boy Ovid in Metamorphoses.
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You I remember you talking about it.
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I think it's pronounced Ovid.
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Ovid, sorry, sorry.
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I always welcome an alternate pronunciation.
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I'm just kidding, that was so obnoxious because who doesn't know how to pronounce anything and had to literally sit down with my friend Jenny before our Cassandra episode and be like, can you tell me how to pronounce everything?
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And we went through it.
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So don't let me be a dick, Daniel.
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Let me stop.
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I am not, I'm never offended about that.
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I am kind of I have a little I'm offended for my own self.
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I, as someone who learned Spanish, my my problem is when I see any word that looks different, I'm just like, oh, let's default to Spanish vowel sounds because they're so straightforward and it it leads me astray a lot.
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So thank you.
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Anyways, King Lycan, he came from an important bloodline.
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His dad was named Pelasgus, and he was like a mythological original Greek.
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So he's like a real original Nepo baby.
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You know, so he was a king, he was had like lavish parties, big palace and everything.
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He was a philanderer, one might say.
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He sired as many as 50 sons with 50 different women.
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Sorry, I did say this was gonna be a sex-free episode.
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I guess I forgot about this detail.
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No, I I think that was more of the times though, because Cassandra's father um had like a hundred kids too.
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They were just fucking them out.
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Yeah, these guys sound like dirtbags.
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Yeah, I mean, is there anybody in Greek mythology who wasn't a bit sketch about their treatment of women and their yeah?
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Um, but for the importance of his werewolf story, he was described as deeply impious.
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So he was an unbeliever, which actually I'm kind of like cool, like that, love skepticism.
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So, like, I'm I'm kind of on his side a little bit.
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Not with the whole siring a bunch of children with different women, hopefully he was a good father.
00:14:19.039 --> 00:14:19.600
Got it.
00:14:19.840 --> 00:14:27.679
Anyway, um he is also sometimes described as openly wicked and cruel, including human sacrifice.
00:14:27.759 --> 00:14:29.200
So maybe I don't like him actually.
00:14:29.360 --> 00:14:39.440
I know, I was gonna say, I think you just had your second sweet summer child coming of this episode by just being like, I bet he was a nice guy, and then five minutes later you're like, um, actually he was the literal worst.
00:14:39.679 --> 00:14:40.799
Yeah, my Stockholm syndrome.
00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:42.240
Turns out he sucked.
00:14:42.559 --> 00:14:42.879
Yeah.
00:14:43.279 --> 00:14:52.240
Okay, so Zeus, you've heard of him, he got wind of all of this debauchery and impiety going on in Lycon's kingdom.
00:14:52.399 --> 00:14:56.240
So Zeus decided to go take a look for himself and maybe give some like little tests.
00:14:56.320 --> 00:15:06.799
So what he did, there's different versions of the story, but he either just visited directly or he kind of disguised himself as like a beggar or like a commoner and you know, went to the went to the castle.
00:15:07.039 --> 00:15:14.480
So somehow I think in some versions, Lycon like knows it's Zeus, but he doubts that it's Zeus, but it's still like you should be on your best behavior.
00:15:14.639 --> 00:15:15.279
Zeus is here.
00:15:15.759 --> 00:15:20.559
But in the story, he decides to like test whether Zeus is actually a god.
00:15:20.720 --> 00:15:25.919
So what he does is he mixes human entrails with Zeus's food.
00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:29.679
In some stories, it's a prisoner, like a random prisoner.
00:15:29.759 --> 00:15:32.639
In other stories, it's his own grandson's entrails.
00:15:32.720 --> 00:15:34.320
So it's like really gruesome stuff.
00:15:34.480 --> 00:15:37.039
So they mix these entrails into Zeus's food.
00:15:37.200 --> 00:15:39.039
Zeus, being a god, notices.
00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:41.679
Also, in some other stories, he tries to murder Zeus in his sleep.
00:15:41.759 --> 00:15:43.440
So he just basically fucks with Zeus.
00:15:43.600 --> 00:15:45.279
Wow, he was like wild and out.
00:15:45.600 --> 00:15:46.799
Like this man.
00:15:47.519 --> 00:15:48.480
This man.
00:15:48.799 --> 00:15:49.120
Okay.
00:15:49.519 --> 00:15:50.480
So what do you think?
00:15:50.639 --> 00:15:55.600
Well, if what would you do if you were eating your meal and you caught some some human entrails in it?
00:15:55.840 --> 00:15:57.039
Gosh, what a conundrum.
00:15:57.120 --> 00:15:59.039
I've never thought of this before.
00:15:59.600 --> 00:16:00.960
Do I want to think about it?
00:16:01.120 --> 00:16:01.919
No, I don't know.
00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:04.399
If you had the powers of Zeus, maybe you would decide.
00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:09.600
Oh, I'd be I'd be uh scooping up some lightning bolts and sending them straight.
00:16:09.919 --> 00:16:16.320
Well, Zeus decides to go straight to 11 and he destroys Lycon's palace with bolts from heaven.
00:16:16.879 --> 00:16:17.200
Done.
00:16:17.360 --> 00:16:18.320
Oh my god, exactly.
00:16:18.559 --> 00:16:23.360
Me and Zeus, me and Zeus, we're just the same person and two different bodies.
00:16:23.759 --> 00:16:25.360
Like, so honestly, legitimate.
00:16:25.440 --> 00:16:27.919
Like, someone serves me human entrails at your house is getting.
00:16:28.240 --> 00:16:32.799
Yeah, I'm smiting them off of this earth in a hot second.
00:16:33.039 --> 00:16:37.440
But then Lycon, like the little pissant he is, just flees into the forest.
00:16:37.519 --> 00:16:41.120
So Zeus says absolutely not, and he imparts his final curse on King Lycon.
00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:47.200
Lycon, as he runs in the forest, his body starts to twist and gnarl, and his skin starts to sprout hair.
00:16:47.759 --> 00:16:49.279
The bones and then the back.
00:16:49.519 --> 00:16:50.000
Yes.
00:16:50.399 --> 00:16:57.919
His face stretches out into a muzzle as he feebly tries to utter human speech for the last time, but all that can come out are growls and ruffs.
00:16:58.080 --> 00:16:59.039
Maybe not ruffs.
00:16:59.200 --> 00:17:01.279
All that can come out are growls.
00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:05.759
I'm just like imagining.
00:17:05.839 --> 00:17:06.240
Do you know?
00:17:06.319 --> 00:17:10.079
Have you seen that whole thing with like the Jimothy, the raccoon that is deformed?
00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:11.599
Oh, Jimothy is coming up next week.
00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:12.880
Jimothy is coming up next week.
00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:14.319
Let's just wait for Jimothy here.
00:17:14.720 --> 00:17:15.200
Timothy.
00:17:16.880 --> 00:17:17.200
Okay.
00:17:17.839 --> 00:17:20.000
So he starts to transform into a wolf.
00:17:20.160 --> 00:17:23.359
Creepily, the stories say that his eyes stay the same.
00:17:23.519 --> 00:17:28.640
So everything changes to wolf, but human eyes, which sounds extremely disturbing to me.
00:17:28.720 --> 00:17:32.079
Like imagine if a wolf walked up to you and looked at you with just human eyes.
00:17:32.400 --> 00:17:36.960
You know, again, you're sending my brain into a lot of different places that's never gone before.
00:17:37.039 --> 00:17:39.519
And that's not really what I would have thought about.
00:17:40.400 --> 00:17:42.160
That's not where I was landing.
00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:44.400
But okay, that would be weird.
00:17:44.559 --> 00:17:45.599
I'll humor you.
00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:47.039
I'm now just remembering this.
00:17:47.200 --> 00:17:52.160
Didn't that something like the hunger games they would do with like the creatures they would like leave their eyes?
00:17:52.799 --> 00:17:56.720
Yeah, the the like mute the like genetically modified dogs.
00:17:56.960 --> 00:17:57.920
Weren't they dogs in the end?
00:17:58.000 --> 00:17:58.160
Yeah.
00:17:58.559 --> 00:17:59.440
The mutts, yeah.
00:17:59.839 --> 00:18:00.559
I don't know if they would leave.
00:18:00.720 --> 00:18:00.880
Yeah, I think that's a good idea.
00:18:01.039 --> 00:18:02.000
Susan Collins would like.
00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:03.680
Has she ever had an original idea?
00:18:04.880 --> 00:18:08.880
Susan Collins! Have you ever had an original thought?
00:18:09.119 --> 00:18:11.359
Well, I'm sure we'll find some JK Rowling.
00:18:11.680 --> 00:18:14.319
Have you ever had an original thought moments in this episode?
00:18:14.799 --> 00:18:19.599
So King Lycon, he's in the forest now, left as a vicious, bloodthirsty monster.
00:18:19.759 --> 00:18:20.400
Nothing has changed.
00:18:20.559 --> 00:18:24.400
Honestly, it doesn't sound like much difference from before, but we'll let it slide.
00:18:24.640 --> 00:18:26.000
Zeus, nice one.
00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:26.720
Good job.
00:18:26.960 --> 00:18:28.960
That to me is like the symbology right there.
00:18:29.119 --> 00:18:32.480
His monstrous beast-like form now matches his soul.
00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:36.240
I mean, I think that's quite like poetic.
00:18:36.559 --> 00:18:40.319
It's almost as if they were telling poetic stories.
00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:42.799
Maybe potentially a lesson.
00:18:43.759 --> 00:18:44.079
Yeah.
00:18:44.799 --> 00:18:45.839
Do you sneak?
00:18:46.559 --> 00:18:54.559
And so this story does obviously, it has like the kernel of werewolfism, but it varies wildly from what we now think of today.
00:18:55.039 --> 00:18:57.759
There's you know, no extended universe mythology.
00:18:58.079 --> 00:19:01.519
He wasn't like bitten by another werewolf, he was just directly cursed from God.
00:19:01.759 --> 00:19:03.519
It's a permanent transformation.
00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:05.680
He transforms into a wolf forever.
00:19:05.839 --> 00:19:07.119
It's not this back and forth.
00:19:07.279 --> 00:19:07.440
Yeah.
00:19:07.839 --> 00:19:11.039
I feel like I do feel like the gods were pretty permanent about their curses.
00:19:11.359 --> 00:19:12.400
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:19:12.640 --> 00:19:14.000
Um historically.
00:19:15.119 --> 00:19:19.279
I mean, if you're not permanent as a god, people would start to doubt you.
00:19:19.359 --> 00:19:21.839
They'd be like, oh, Zeus only made him a wolf for a year.
00:19:21.920 --> 00:19:22.720
It's not that bad.
00:19:22.960 --> 00:19:23.279
Yeah.
00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:26.240
You only get one chance on Mount Olympus.
00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:34.160
So I said that King Lycon was maybe or probably the first recorded ex like mythological werewolf.
00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:35.839
You know how it is with history.
00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:40.720
It's hard to tell when exactly things were written, records get lost, there's all types of what you know.
00:19:40.960 --> 00:19:45.759
Yeah, like I'm pretty sure we're only 100% positive-ish of like the last 300 years.
00:19:45.839 --> 00:19:46.880
So I'm gonna let this one slide.
00:19:47.359 --> 00:19:50.559
I mean, I can barely remember last week sometime, so I I know.
00:19:50.799 --> 00:19:55.839
You just asked me to bring up a curse from this last week, and I was like, I only I don't I don't know.
00:19:56.000 --> 00:19:59.039
Yeah, I have no idea even what state I was in half the time.
00:19:59.359 --> 00:20:08.000
So there is another werewolf-ish story in another ancient epic that you maybe I remember reading in high school, The Epic of Gilgamesh.
00:20:08.079 --> 00:20:10.640
Uh, this comes out of um ancient.
00:20:10.799 --> 00:20:12.160
I don't think I ever read that one.
00:20:12.400 --> 00:20:12.720
Okay.
00:20:12.960 --> 00:20:13.440
What happened?
00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:19.039
Gilgamesh, he's a like a I believe I remember he's maybe like half guy, he's like a Hercules type warrior guy.
00:20:19.279 --> 00:20:20.559
He just goes on like tons of journeys.
00:20:20.880 --> 00:20:23.279
I remember at one point he fights like scorpion people.
00:20:23.440 --> 00:20:24.880
I it there's lots of stuff.
00:20:24.960 --> 00:20:26.400
It's just like an epic tale, I think.
00:20:26.480 --> 00:20:28.640
I don't I and like I said, I read it in high school.
00:20:28.720 --> 00:20:30.319
And we probably didn't even read the whole thing.
00:20:30.400 --> 00:20:32.079
I'm sure we read selected portions of it.
00:20:32.319 --> 00:20:33.759
Well, we did not go to the same high school.
00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:41.200
Yours was a little fancier than mine, so I was probably just on that public school diet of trash and God knows what.
00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:46.480
Well, I mean it's just yeah, but Gilgamesh is one of many like foundational pieces of literature, yeah.
00:20:46.720 --> 00:20:48.400
I'm sure it's crossed my desk at some point.
00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:55.519
I just call it from around 2000 BC in ancient Mesopotamia, modern day Iraq, you know, the Persian Gulf area.
00:20:55.759 --> 00:21:26.960
And in the story, one small portion, this is like I said, a large epic, but um, at one point the goddess Ishtar tries to seduce Gilgamesh, and he says to her, quote, You have loved the shepherd of the flock, he made meal cake for you day after day, he killed kids for your sake, you struck and turned him into a wolf, now his own herd boys chase him away, his own hounds worry his flanks, and if you and I should be lovers, should I not be served the same fashion as all of these others whom you loved ones?
00:21:27.200 --> 00:21:32.960
So he's saying you cursed a dude that you're like spurned ex, you straight up turned him into a wolf and cursed him for life.
00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:39.119
So this idea of being turned into a wolf as punishment goes back to like the core of human beginnings.
00:21:39.359 --> 00:21:40.720
And also toxic relationships.
00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:43.119
I know, I know to the very beginning.
00:21:43.359 --> 00:21:49.200
And like, also, I'm just gonna, for my own well being, we're talking about goats when we're talking about kids.
00:21:49.359 --> 00:21:49.519
Yes.
00:21:49.839 --> 00:21:50.960
He's not just killing children.
00:21:51.119 --> 00:21:51.279
Okay.
00:21:51.759 --> 00:21:55.519
I double checked, I was like, let me see if there's a different way they translated that word to check on that.
00:21:58.559 --> 00:21:59.519
Like I did.
00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:00.960
Very valid question.
00:22:01.039 --> 00:22:05.279
I mean, King Lycon supposedly killed his own grandson to use his entrail.
00:22:05.359 --> 00:22:06.079
It just ugh.
00:22:06.240 --> 00:22:07.279
People are out of control.
00:22:07.599 --> 00:22:23.039
So from these early roots of stories of men being punished, cursed to become wolves as punishment, you start to see this idea of man turning into wolf as a trope throughout Western culture, but also human culture more broadly.
00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:30.880
We're really focusing on werewolves and like we don't want to, I don't want to get too broad and like wolf-like or animal transfiguration myths.
00:22:31.039 --> 00:22:32.319
There's time for all of those.
00:22:32.480 --> 00:22:40.880
We're going to mostly focus on things that evolved from the European werewolf tradition that that started in the Fertile Crescent and in Greece.
00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:46.400
Also, in um another example is in ancient Norse mythology, there were these warriors.
00:22:46.559 --> 00:22:49.839
They were called, um, you'll sometimes they're called Berserker Warriors.
00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:52.000
I don't want to be a berserker warrior.
00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:58.000
And they were like warriors meant to like instill fear with their like ferocious, you know, activity.
00:22:58.079 --> 00:23:01.279
And I'm gonna guarantee that that's the etymology of the word berserker.
00:23:01.440 --> 00:23:02.000
Yes, yes, yeah.
00:23:02.079 --> 00:23:06.559
It's a great berserk came from that, not not the other way around.
00:23:06.799 --> 00:23:07.200
Yes, yeah.
00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:12.079
It is the it is the Scandinavian word that English took to mean I'm gonna go berserk.
00:23:12.319 --> 00:23:12.559
Yeah.
00:23:12.640 --> 00:23:14.880
So again, I love etymology sometimes.
00:23:14.960 --> 00:23:17.759
It straight up like tells you how we decided on these things.
00:23:17.920 --> 00:23:21.759
But there was a specific type of these berserker warriors called.
00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:28.000
Pardon my ancient Norse attempts at pronouncing this, but the God, Daniel, let's see how you do.
00:23:28.480 --> 00:23:29.759
The Ulfednar.
00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:31.680
That is not how that is pronounced.
00:23:31.759 --> 00:23:32.640
It's Ulfednin.
00:23:32.880 --> 00:23:34.400
One of my most like serious.
00:23:35.680 --> 00:23:36.960
I would love that.
00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:40.559
That word means wolf coats.
00:23:40.640 --> 00:23:45.279
And so these guys, they aren't considered like men transforming into wolves.
00:23:45.359 --> 00:23:48.240
They're men warriors who wore wolf skins.
00:23:48.319 --> 00:23:54.480
Have you probably seen some like old ideas where they kind of have like the top of the- So they're not boys becoming men and men becoming boys?
00:23:54.720 --> 00:23:55.119
Thank you.
00:23:55.279 --> 00:23:58.240
I was going to make a werewolf bar mitzvah reference later.
00:23:58.400 --> 00:24:00.400
Thank you for doing it for me at the beginning.
00:24:00.640 --> 00:24:04.160
I'm just like snatching everything up from you before you can get to it.
00:24:04.240 --> 00:24:07.119
I've got gym, like, I'm just gonna have my collection of little treasures.
00:24:07.279 --> 00:24:09.759
I've got Jimothy, I've got a werewolf bar mitzvah.
00:24:10.079 --> 00:24:12.319
What else can I snatch from your cold dead hand?
00:24:13.839 --> 00:24:16.319
Given enough of these, I'm gonna get to steal another one of your curses.
00:24:16.400 --> 00:24:17.359
So watch out, Angela.
00:24:17.519 --> 00:24:18.640
I know, seriously.
00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:20.400
That's yeah.
00:24:20.640 --> 00:24:30.319
I accept Yeah, so these were not like literal werewolves, but they were supposed to take on like the spirit of the wolf and the ferocity and the terror and the strength of a wolf.
00:24:30.400 --> 00:24:32.079
So again, it's a sexiness.
00:24:32.400 --> 00:24:36.960
If that's how you want to look, if you want to get berserked by a berserker, you go nuts.
00:24:37.519 --> 00:24:38.000
Do what you want to do.
00:24:38.160 --> 00:24:40.319
You haven't read enough fanfiction, Daniel.
00:24:40.880 --> 00:24:44.240
Yeah, I'm sure there's many a story of berserker were.
00:24:44.559 --> 00:24:47.119
Oh, there's some berserk werewolf stories for sure.
00:24:47.359 --> 00:25:02.720
There's some like there's old carvings in like Roman frescoes showing these like whore, not hordes, but these like troops of warriors, Germanic warriors wearing bear skins and wolf skins back in like, you know, in the early days of the Roman Empire and everything.
00:25:02.960 --> 00:25:10.480
So obviously, this I mean, you're gonna take the most ferocious animals and like to to take on their qualities as as a warrior.
00:25:10.960 --> 00:25:14.319
Yeah, like men have lost the art form of being psychotic.
00:25:15.440 --> 00:25:27.119
Wait, no, men need to lose the art form for like all these, like no, like the warrior battle psych, like just absolute psychoticness.
00:25:27.759 --> 00:25:33.759
Okay, so there's all these stories of like men taking on wolf qualities, being punished, using their power.
00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:37.359
These stories start to take on, you know, real cultural weight.
00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:41.279
They're life and death warnings, you know, people are getting killed by animals.
00:25:41.359 --> 00:25:47.519
So of course they're gonna try to give more meaning to it than, oh, my loved one was killed by a wolf.
00:25:47.839 --> 00:25:51.039
Or a bunch of soldiers came and killed us all.
00:25:51.119 --> 00:25:56.559
They must have been imbued with the strength of wolves that we could not defend ourselves from them.
00:25:56.640 --> 00:25:57.680
Like, isn't it so weird?
00:25:57.759 --> 00:25:59.039
Like the tale as old as time.
00:25:59.119 --> 00:26:07.359
Like, we we wanna, even in present day, we're trying to turn overdoses into murders because it's so hard to like reconcile.
00:26:07.599 --> 00:26:32.720
That is like like I feel like one of the things I did not expect for us to find in all of these episodes is just like there is, and I know am I getting up on the jump on another thing, the cyclicality of it all, of like just the way that humans behave over and over and over again throughout the ages is just like so similar, and there's so much like we never change.
00:26:33.039 --> 00:26:33.680
Yeah, yeah.
00:26:33.759 --> 00:26:43.279
I mean, it these this is hundreds and hundreds, thousands of years ago, and it rings still so true as to exactly why we're tell still telling the same stories.
00:26:43.839 --> 00:26:48.720
So as these stories evolve, unfortunately what happens next, guess what?
00:26:48.880 --> 00:26:50.960
Humans start to hear bad stories, and what do they do?
00:26:51.119 --> 00:26:53.599
They do even worse things than the stories themselves.
00:26:53.680 --> 00:26:56.400
Because what we're gonna talk about next are werewolf trials.
00:26:56.640 --> 00:27:00.480
There were essentially witch trials for people accused of being werewolves.
00:27:01.119 --> 00:27:06.799
Actually, I'm ready for this because uh sounds like some men got what got theirs.
00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:12.000
And I'm sick of it always being women who get burned at stakes and get fucked over.
00:27:12.400 --> 00:27:15.200
We're gonna talk about a couple specific trials that happened.
00:27:15.279 --> 00:27:16.160
Most of them were men.
00:27:16.240 --> 00:27:19.440
There were also women accused of uh of of werewolfism.
00:27:19.519 --> 00:27:21.839
But there's also men who were killed in the witchcraft trials as well.
00:27:21.920 --> 00:27:26.160
It was people were just looking to kill for people were just the worst.
00:27:26.480 --> 00:27:33.759
Yeah, it sounds like there was like maybe this is another thing that's never really changed, but like they weren't quiet about their insatiable bloodlust back in the day.
00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:40.079
Um I I guess if there's one thing to be said for living in the modern ages is that we've learned to tamp that down a bit.
00:27:40.319 --> 00:27:42.240
Um Honestly, have we?
00:27:42.559 --> 00:27:42.799
I know.
00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:43.119
I agree.
00:27:44.880 --> 00:27:46.160
We have, but but I don't know.
00:27:46.240 --> 00:27:50.640
I mean, there was just like mob mob violence is terrifying, and it happens today.
00:27:52.240 --> 00:27:53.359
Yeah, yes, yes, yeah, yeah.
00:27:53.519 --> 00:27:53.759
Yeah.
00:27:53.839 --> 00:27:56.079
The old timey tortures, horrifying.
00:27:56.240 --> 00:27:59.039
We also, there's some horrifying people doing horrifying things.
00:27:59.359 --> 00:27:59.920
I mean, I know.
00:28:00.079 --> 00:28:00.799
I don't want to get into it.
00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:04.240
Maybe I'm not as rosy of an outlook on humanity's evolution as you are.
00:28:04.640 --> 00:28:05.680
Um yeah.
00:28:05.920 --> 00:28:08.400
It's not that I it's not that I hate men.
00:28:08.480 --> 00:28:13.039
I just hate everything about them because they're such fucking psychopaths.
00:28:13.279 --> 00:28:18.880
Yeah, and we have to we have to tell wolf stories to describe the horrors of what's happening in real life.
00:28:19.039 --> 00:28:21.200
That's yeah, so that's these werewolf trials.
00:28:21.279 --> 00:28:25.920
If we'll go back to medieval or, you know, uh hundreds of years ago.
00:28:26.079 --> 00:28:28.960
This is by the way, this is they started around the 15th century in Europe.
00:28:29.039 --> 00:28:31.279
So that's if we're placing ourselves in the 1400s.
00:28:31.519 --> 00:28:33.359
So same time as witch trials, basically.
00:28:33.519 --> 00:28:39.519
And so these werewolf trials, sometimes it seems like mass hysteria and just like they decided to accuse someone.
00:28:39.680 --> 00:28:42.640
Other times there probably were maybe there was a real murderer.
00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:44.079
I mean, people be murdering.
00:28:44.160 --> 00:28:46.240
Like, I don't know when serial killers started.
00:28:46.319 --> 00:28:47.920
The modern serial killer is a thing.
00:28:48.079 --> 00:28:49.599
Maybe they were ancient serial killers.
00:28:49.680 --> 00:28:51.039
I'm sure there were people doing awful things.
00:28:51.200 --> 00:28:51.759
Oh, for sure.
00:28:51.920 --> 00:28:55.200
Because the modern serial killer only dates back to 1894.
00:28:55.279 --> 00:28:55.359
H.
00:28:55.519 --> 00:28:55.599
H.
00:28:55.759 --> 00:28:59.200
Holmes was considered to be the first modern serial killer, and that was literally 1894.
00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:01.759
We got King Leica on sacrificing people.
00:29:01.839 --> 00:29:02.640
Like, isn't that basically?
00:29:03.279 --> 00:29:04.319
People have been murdering since.
00:29:04.559 --> 00:29:04.720
Yeah.
00:29:04.880 --> 00:29:06.319
Have you heard of a man named Kane?
00:29:06.720 --> 00:29:09.680
Eventually, people will start to say werewolves are descendants of Kane, too.
00:29:09.759 --> 00:29:11.680
As well, it just kind of gets lumped into that.
00:29:11.920 --> 00:29:16.960
So I want to talk about probably the most sensationalized werewolf trial I could find.
00:29:17.039 --> 00:29:20.400
And it's the most sensationalized because it has the most surviving information.
00:29:20.480 --> 00:29:23.359
And again, to r this is always important when we're talking about history.
00:29:23.519 --> 00:29:29.359
This survived for like talking about why it survived and why we know about this also colors how much we can trust it.
00:29:29.519 --> 00:29:36.880
So this came from some English language translations of now lost German pamphlets that were describing the trial.
00:29:37.039 --> 00:29:41.680
So it's a translation of something that was like probably tabloid-level reporting to begin with.
00:29:42.160 --> 00:29:42.960
Like it was propaganda.
00:29:43.839 --> 00:29:44.559
Yes, exactly.
00:29:44.799 --> 00:29:46.400
But it is records of this.
00:29:46.559 --> 00:29:54.000
There are, you know, this it is believed that this happened, similar to how the pamphlet alleges at least some of the base points.
00:29:54.079 --> 00:29:58.079
There's there's corroborating evidence, but the the bulk of this is from the these pamphlets.
00:29:58.160 --> 00:30:02.880
Uh-so giant grain of salt, maybe a heaping tablespoon, however much we feel is necessary.
00:30:03.119 --> 00:30:03.279
Okay.
00:30:03.839 --> 00:30:11.039
This story takes place in the late 16th century, so late 1500s, near Bedberg, close to modern-day Cologne, Germany.
00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:13.839
People in Central Europe at the time, they were freaked out about werewolves.
00:30:13.920 --> 00:30:17.440
Maybe there were real wolves attacking and killing their animals and some people.
00:30:17.599 --> 00:30:21.359
Maybe there was a reason that they felt the need to have this trial.
00:30:21.519 --> 00:30:24.960
Um, and they went out searching for something, someone to blame.
00:30:25.359 --> 00:30:27.440
And that person they found was Peter Stump.
00:30:27.519 --> 00:30:31.279
His last name is spelled a bunch of different ways, but generally it's S T-U-M-P-P.
00:30:31.680 --> 00:30:36.640
Uh he was a farmer in the area who was supposedly this already gets off on a bad foot.
00:30:37.039 --> 00:30:39.839
He was called Stump because he was missing a left hand, they say.
00:30:40.079 --> 00:30:42.799
So it's just like, to begin with, these people fucking suck.
00:30:43.440 --> 00:30:51.680
That detail becomes really important because it's later used as proof that he was a werewolf, because the the supposed wolf sightings I saw was missing the same paw.
00:30:51.759 --> 00:30:57.279
And it's like, maybe there was a wolf missing a paw, but I also just believe people would have made this up completely.
00:30:57.599 --> 00:31:02.640
So from the start, it sort of just sounds like there was a guy with a disability that this town decided to scapegoat.
00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:07.519
Maybe there maybe he was murdering people, but I don't think there's Right.
00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:25.519
Like I don't know if anybody deserves absolution just from the effects that you've given, but at the same time, it's like, you know that feeling when like you are in a group of people and you're trying to get an idea across or whatever, and like nobody is into it or whatever, like people kind of like gang up against you or go against and you're just like, oh, I've like lost control of the whole room.
00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:27.680
I feel like this is that on a scale of like a hundred.
00:31:27.839 --> 00:31:28.000
Yes.
00:31:28.160 --> 00:31:38.319
And I feel like hysteria in those days, like, I'm going probably down a weird tangent or whatever, but like I think about the Salem witch trials and how much of it was literally just like one person being like, I saw Goody Practor with the devil.
00:31:38.480 --> 00:31:46.079
And then like things, and like before you even can get control over it, it's like blown up into this whole entire thing.
00:31:46.240 --> 00:32:08.799
And I just feel like back in the days that you're describing, I'm sure they were afraid of everything because life was confusing and people, you know, they didn't understand what was going on around them, and like nature is such a beast that I think that like that's probably where a lot of these magic systems come from and these, you know, things that go thump in the night that people were afraid of because like they just were not matched for the world around them.
00:32:08.960 --> 00:32:12.240
And so, like, I can just imagine the level of hysteria.
00:32:12.480 --> 00:32:20.400
I feel like if I lived in those times, I would have been like the quietest, most just like I will only speak when spoken to person ever.
00:32:20.799 --> 00:32:29.359
Because n like not only was everyone just being ridiculous because they were just chuck full of fear at all times, which we see that today and how it fucks us all up.
00:32:29.519 --> 00:32:30.960
Can't even imagine it back then.
00:32:31.200 --> 00:32:38.640
But I also feel like literally one person says one little thing and it can lead to you being tortured and killed in a horrific way.
00:32:38.880 --> 00:32:41.119
Yeah, mob mentality is terrifying.
00:32:41.440 --> 00:32:54.960
I mean, it is probably one of the that I can't imagine a more scary thing of a whole town full of people all convinced you or something horrifying that you're not, and there's nothing you nothing you could ever do to convince them of the truth.
00:32:55.279 --> 00:32:58.160
Because I mean, you're living in the Middle Ages.
00:32:58.240 --> 00:32:59.599
You you no one even understands science.
00:32:59.680 --> 00:33:02.640
No, I mean I'm the base it yes, it's terrifying.
00:33:02.960 --> 00:33:05.680
Even today that's a terrifying thought, let alone back then.
00:33:05.920 --> 00:33:11.839
So, according to the pamphlet, the area had been terrorized for years with vicious attacks by a monstrous wolf.
00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:15.599
Livestock were being killed, people were attacked, and children did go missing.
00:33:15.759 --> 00:33:22.880
Bodies were found in horrifying, mutilated states, sometimes like skin torn off, like missing limbs, like really horrifying.
00:33:23.119 --> 00:33:26.880
Yeah, but that's not surprising, honestly, because again, there's this increased bloodlust.
00:33:27.680 --> 00:33:39.920
There's a lot of examples of how to fucking mutilate someone because of the way they were torturing people that like even in this day and age, they say there's, you know, a hundred or more active serial killers at any point in time.
00:33:40.240 --> 00:33:43.440
It's like that's not fresh news, you guys.
00:33:43.680 --> 00:33:53.519
Like, that was probably happening back then, but even on like a scale where you're not gonna get caught as easily and like it's all around you in an even more visceral way.
00:33:53.599 --> 00:33:58.880
Like you can literally go and watch people get flayed alive in this in the town hall on a Wednesday afternoon.
00:33:59.119 --> 00:34:09.280
Can you imagine being somebody who has, you know, whatever is going on inside your mental state and your body chemistry to be like, I'm a killer, I'm a serial killer, I'm gonna go do this.
00:34:09.519 --> 00:34:22.639
In that period of time, it's like I bet it was just like honestly much more prevalent than it even is today because it was just, I'm sure, so much and also there was probably so much more trauma in these people's lives when they were young.
00:34:22.800 --> 00:34:28.960
Like it's like it's like the pieces are all there that it's like, oh, for sure there were tons of serial killers in these times.
00:34:29.280 --> 00:34:33.280
Like this psych like the psychology of it, like the the profile fits.
00:34:33.519 --> 00:34:33.679
Yeah.
00:34:33.840 --> 00:34:39.119
Oh, and I mean, even if it was just real animal attacks, like there Yeah, that too.
00:34:39.519 --> 00:34:46.320
So whether what was actually happening, the scared people of Edburg, they went looking for an answer.
00:34:46.559 --> 00:34:54.960
And to them, maybe the most understandable answer is that someone in their community was so secretly evil that it was like had to be supernatural, essentially.
00:34:55.199 --> 00:35:01.360
So in 1589, Stump was arrested, and I'm not really sure why they uh initially suspected him, to be honest.
00:35:01.440 --> 00:35:04.320
It doesn't really say, it just says that he was arrested.
00:35:04.559 --> 00:35:06.000
Well, he was probably like an other, honestly.
00:35:06.559 --> 00:35:06.880
Yeah, yeah.
00:35:07.119 --> 00:35:10.800
I mean, but then again, I don't know, would it have been such an other to have a deformity then?
00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:12.719
Because again, the times were wild.
00:35:13.280 --> 00:35:20.079
Well, how but also large accidents that maybe would remove a limb were less survivable as well, then so surviving that.
00:35:21.199 --> 00:35:24.000
Yeah, I that created a mysticism about him or something.
00:35:24.320 --> 00:35:34.159
Yeah, so he was arrested, and it describes him as being put onto a torture device and not fully tortured, but like they began torture.
00:35:34.239 --> 00:35:38.480
So, but of essentially under torture or at the bare minimum, extreme threat of torture.
00:35:38.960 --> 00:35:44.800
He did yes, he did confess, but like again, the shadiest prosecution of all time.
00:35:45.280 --> 00:35:51.760
Um the pamphlets describe Stump's confession saying that he admitted to practicing dark magic since he was a child.
00:35:52.320 --> 00:36:02.559
They claim that he admitted that the devil gave him a magical belt, which when he put it on, allowed him to transform into a wolf and then back into a man when he removed it.
00:36:02.639 --> 00:36:06.079
So now we've got man, wolf, back to man, and at will.
00:36:06.400 --> 00:36:08.960
This was an at-will deal with the devil.
00:36:09.519 --> 00:36:11.280
I do kind of wonder what the belt looked like.
00:36:11.360 --> 00:36:13.920
Like, do you think it had like shoes that went with it?
00:36:14.480 --> 00:36:15.119
Yes.
00:36:15.360 --> 00:36:18.079
I thought it was like kind of like model-looking leather.
00:36:18.159 --> 00:36:20.159
Like, I feel like it probably looks like human skin.
00:36:20.559 --> 00:36:21.760
An adgeen chic.
00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:27.679
Yeah, it's like you come up with these things and it's like, well, sounds like we've got a day in court to go have.
00:36:27.760 --> 00:36:29.599
Like, just pop the belt on them and see what happens.
00:36:29.760 --> 00:36:38.079
It's like when they would like, I don't know if this is like a Monty Python thing or if this really happened in the Salem witch trials when they were like, a witch floats or sinks, and then they throw them in the river.
00:36:38.239 --> 00:36:44.960
It's like you guys, like you're like giving yourselves backdoor ways to be like, this is true or not.
00:36:45.039 --> 00:36:45.199
Yeah.
00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:50.159
Like, I'm sorry, putting a belt on that was given to you by the devil that turns you into a wolf.
00:36:50.400 --> 00:36:54.400
I I don't think that there was any magic back then that would make that have happened.
00:36:54.559 --> 00:37:00.079
So I think this guy had a pretty solid defense against himself in case in his trial.
00:37:00.400 --> 00:37:05.199
There was one other werewolf trial I looked at, not the one we're gonna get into, but they also claimed a belt was what allowed them.
00:37:05.360 --> 00:37:05.679
Okay.
00:37:05.840 --> 00:37:07.679
What was going on with belts those days?
00:37:08.079 --> 00:37:09.840
There's some magical fashion accessories here.
00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:11.920
And like also, maybe that belt still exists.
00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:13.039
Like, should we start looking?
00:37:13.119 --> 00:37:15.280
Like, let's call Nick Cage and the hunt begins.
00:37:15.440 --> 00:37:18.159
I feel like Nick Cage would already own a belt like that.
00:37:18.320 --> 00:37:19.840
Like the Nick Cage the person.
00:37:20.079 --> 00:37:21.679
I don't need national treasure.
00:37:21.920 --> 00:37:29.280
Nick Cage the person probably has some like human skin belt that turns you into a demon in his possession today.
00:37:29.599 --> 00:37:32.239
Wasn't he the one that was gonna buy Madame Lullery's mansion?
00:37:32.320 --> 00:37:32.880
No, he did own it.
00:37:33.519 --> 00:37:33.679
He did.
00:37:33.840 --> 00:37:34.320
Okay, okay, yeah.
00:37:34.480 --> 00:37:34.800
Forgotten.
00:37:35.119 --> 00:37:35.360
Anyway.
00:37:35.519 --> 00:37:38.400
Oh, there's all kinds of there's a curse about Nick Cage in New Orleans.
00:37:38.559 --> 00:37:40.159
He's a whole episode, maybe.
00:37:40.400 --> 00:37:41.679
Yeah, there's a whole episode.
00:37:41.920 --> 00:37:43.039
The curse of Nick Cage.
00:37:43.599 --> 00:37:45.599
Well no, it's it's other curses, but yeah.
00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:46.960
There's blursings there, too.
00:37:47.119 --> 00:37:47.519
Stay tuned.
00:37:47.599 --> 00:37:48.559
We'll talk more about him.
00:37:48.719 --> 00:37:48.960
Yeah.
00:37:49.199 --> 00:37:49.360
Okay.
00:37:49.519 --> 00:37:51.119
Anyway, back to Peter Stump.
00:37:51.280 --> 00:37:54.960
So he confessed to these things under torture.
00:37:55.199 --> 00:38:05.360
It sounds to me like an unfortunate disabled man was railroaded by a crazy bunch of townsfolk with bloodthirsty justice overall.
00:38:05.519 --> 00:38:11.840
He was accused of gruesomely killing and cannibalizing 14 children, including his own son's brains for some reason.
00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:16.719
Like it just seems like they start to wildly throw, like, oh my god, he did this and this and this.
00:38:17.119 --> 00:38:20.159
He was also accused of killing and eating two pregnant women.
00:38:20.320 --> 00:38:28.239
There's some like, I'm not even gonna get into it, but the like the things this pamphlet wrote were horrific, like the really gruesome details.
00:38:28.480 --> 00:38:32.960
And also, they threw on an accusation of an incestuous relationship with his daughter.
00:38:33.440 --> 00:38:33.840
Oh gosh.
00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:34.159
Yes.
00:38:34.320 --> 00:38:37.920
And they said he was having sexual relationships with a succubus sent by the devil.
00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:40.480
So just like, oh, and this, and this, and this.
00:38:40.559 --> 00:38:43.039
Like, it's just like, just say he killed some people.
00:38:43.360 --> 00:38:47.599
It's weird how much this all does connect to the current political landscape of the day.
00:38:48.159 --> 00:38:49.280
It's pretty wild, I guess.
00:38:49.440 --> 00:38:52.639
But Peter Stump was executed for his confessed crimes.
00:38:52.880 --> 00:38:56.719
Um Okay, that makes it sound less than slightly barbaric.
00:38:56.800 --> 00:38:59.760
He was less executed and more tortured to death.
00:39:00.079 --> 00:39:02.159
I was gonna say, did they make it short and sweet?
00:39:02.239 --> 00:39:06.880
And then I didn't even venture the question because I knew I was gonna get told no.
00:39:07.280 --> 00:39:09.679
They also executed his daughter and his mistress.
00:39:09.840 --> 00:39:12.079
Yeah, just horrible, horrible people.
00:39:12.960 --> 00:39:19.199
So on October 31st, drama queens, like, Jesus Christ, of course they did it on October 31st.
00:39:19.440 --> 00:39:21.519
Was it October 31st at the time, though?
00:39:21.599 --> 00:39:24.000
Was it still Hollows Eve back then?
00:39:24.320 --> 00:39:25.840
Yeah, they were being dramatic.
00:39:26.159 --> 00:39:27.840
So he was put on a breaking wheel.
00:39:27.920 --> 00:39:32.000
Have you it's a torture device, it's basically a big wheel, they stretch you out on it.
00:39:32.079 --> 00:39:37.039
It's like I feel like the I've heard the words I need to hear to know what it is.
00:39:37.199 --> 00:39:39.519
Yeah, a wheel that is used to break your body.
00:39:39.760 --> 00:39:39.840
Yeah.
00:39:40.320 --> 00:39:42.400
No further explanation needed, thank you.
00:39:42.800 --> 00:39:51.519
So b before they used it to break him, though, they they first tore flesh from his body uh systematically with red hot pincers.
00:39:52.000 --> 00:40:07.440
Flaying people alive is like I read a book by Ken Follett that like he spent a good like half a chapter going through the ins and outs of that situation, and like I have never been the same since.
00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:10.559
And now you've brought hot pincers into the mix.
00:40:10.800 --> 00:40:16.639
Yeah, like I can't imagine sitting there, like, as you peel flesh from someone with red hot pincers being like, I am the good guy here.
00:40:16.719 --> 00:40:18.159
It's just wild.
00:40:18.400 --> 00:40:19.519
I I always wondered that too.
00:40:19.599 --> 00:40:31.440
Yeah, like how people like so they tore the flesh from his body, then they broke all his limbs, and then mercifully at this point, I guess he was beheaded.
00:40:31.599 --> 00:40:43.280
Oh, and then they put his corpse on top of a pole with his head, and then like a pick like a a like a little statue of a wolf, essentially as a warning to everyone else.
00:40:43.519 --> 00:40:46.159
So, like truly barbaric behavior.
00:40:46.639 --> 00:40:48.719
Psycho fucking paths.
00:40:49.280 --> 00:40:49.920
Psychopaths.
00:40:50.079 --> 00:40:51.119
Yeah, I mean, I love them.
00:40:51.440 --> 00:40:54.960
I just truly feel awful for Peter Stump, for his family.
00:40:55.280 --> 00:40:58.320
It's i I mean, he is by far the most cursed person here.
00:40:58.639 --> 00:40:59.360
Oh yeah.
00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:06.880
Whether he was culprit or scapegoat, even if he was culprit, I don't see how torturing someone to death is is something a civilized society does.
00:41:07.199 --> 00:41:21.840
Regardless, I I f you know the framework that this the town folk that condemned him used was they used it to understand something that was so terrifying to them about the world that they were just like, we need to find an explanation, we need to solve this.
00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:30.960
So, like it makes sense that they would be out searching for what was that true monster, and maybe it was a real monster, too monstrous to believe.
00:41:31.119 --> 00:41:33.840
I know, there probably was like a bear in the area.
00:41:34.159 --> 00:41:36.880
Yeah, I yeah, did someone go around saying Urhats, like what?
00:41:37.360 --> 00:41:38.559
Yeah, seriously, arts.
00:41:38.800 --> 00:41:41.679
Come on, you guys, get like get with the program.
00:41:42.239 --> 00:41:47.599
And so again, also reminder this was like basically a grocery lane tabloid.
00:41:47.760 --> 00:41:50.719
Like, like it's it's this was sensationalized.
00:41:50.800 --> 00:41:53.039
Who knows how much of this really actually all happened?
00:41:53.199 --> 00:41:56.000
There is a draw, like an old drawing of his execution.
00:41:56.079 --> 00:41:57.280
It's really horrifying.
00:41:57.519 --> 00:42:00.079
Um, so I mean, this all happened.
00:42:00.320 --> 00:42:01.440
What's wrong with people?
00:42:01.920 --> 00:42:04.639
I don't want to know which moment they captured in that drawing.
00:42:04.960 --> 00:42:10.639
Okay, we're getting to, I think, a stopping point-ish for we're gonna finish this story next week.
00:42:10.719 --> 00:42:14.320
But I do want to give, I don't want to end on the the the sad story of Peter Stomp.
00:42:14.480 --> 00:42:20.639
I'm very curious how you bring this all back around to Jimothy, the plump raccoon that's been stealing the hearts of the nation.
00:42:21.039 --> 00:42:23.519
That is going to be some magic from you.
00:42:23.920 --> 00:42:25.679
Well, we'll get to Jimothy next week.
00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:26.880
He's just a he'll be a mention.
00:42:26.960 --> 00:42:29.199
It's I mean, this is not a Jimothy-centric call.
00:42:29.519 --> 00:42:30.800
Let's not get hopes too high up.
00:42:31.119 --> 00:42:31.360
Okay.
00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:34.719
But I want to give one other story of a werewolf trial.
00:42:34.880 --> 00:42:38.239
This one's not necessarily much happier, but it's at least less terrifying.
00:42:38.320 --> 00:42:42.639
Um, and it shows maybe how some people weren't so truly awful with it.
00:42:42.800 --> 00:42:46.159
They really were just scared people looking for a solution to a problem.
00:42:46.320 --> 00:42:54.159
So there's another example of a famous werewolf trial in ancient Livonia, which is now modern-day like Latvia, Estonia.
00:42:54.239 --> 00:42:56.800
It was Swedish at the time, so Swedish Livonia.
00:42:56.880 --> 00:42:59.840
There was a man known as Old Feast, which I think is just a great name.
00:42:59.920 --> 00:43:00.960
Like uh, that's old feast.
00:43:01.199 --> 00:43:01.599
Old what?
00:43:02.639 --> 00:43:02.800
Yeah.
00:43:02.880 --> 00:43:04.000
T-H-I-E-S-S.
00:43:04.239 --> 00:43:04.639
Thiece.
00:43:04.800 --> 00:43:05.840
That's how I'm gonna pronounce it.
00:43:06.480 --> 00:43:07.199
Old feast.
00:43:07.760 --> 00:43:22.719
He, this guy, he was in a trial for he was a witness of a robbery, and so he was giving testimony, and then just decided while giving testimony to confess to being a werewolf to the court, and the court was like, wait, what?
00:43:23.119 --> 00:43:24.320
Okay, back it up.
00:43:24.559 --> 00:43:30.079
Yeah, like he just straight up like went on a tangent, which I get it, is like you've got a captive audience.
00:43:30.159 --> 00:43:31.440
Maybe he thought it was a good story.
00:43:31.679 --> 00:43:35.280
He was like, I've got some attention, let's keep this rolling.
00:43:35.519 --> 00:43:45.599
But here's the thing the version of his werewolfism that he told was very different from that of Peter Stump, that of Lycon, that of the Berserker Warriors.
00:43:45.760 --> 00:44:09.760
So he said that werewolves, himself included, were quote hounds of God, and that three times a year on three specific holy days, he and the other hounds of God would transform into their wolf forms, and then they Would go into hell to battle the devil and to retrieve the the the things the devil and demons had stolen from humanity, basically.
00:44:09.920 --> 00:44:12.239
So he was like, no, no, no, you guys have it all wrong.
00:44:12.400 --> 00:44:14.639
Werewolves are real, but we're good.
00:44:14.800 --> 00:44:24.159
So he's sounds like a guy who went viral and then was just trying to keep the the excitement on him so he could make some some uh TikTok money or something.
00:44:24.400 --> 00:44:26.960
I just love the idea that he fully lost the plot.
00:44:27.119 --> 00:44:27.440
Oh, yeah.
00:44:27.840 --> 00:44:29.840
Testifying about something completely different.
00:44:30.079 --> 00:44:36.719
No, he was like, he had a shower thought and he was like just desperate to get it out there into the world, and this was his platform.
00:44:36.880 --> 00:44:38.320
But hey, we're talking about it today.
00:44:38.400 --> 00:44:43.519
It's 2026, and we are talking about This and his thesis.
00:44:45.519 --> 00:44:46.159
Yep.
00:44:47.440 --> 00:44:48.239
It's perfect.
00:44:48.320 --> 00:44:51.360
You he we're playing right into old Thiece's hands.
00:44:51.599 --> 00:44:53.840
Oh, This, you sneaky dog.
00:44:54.000 --> 00:44:54.320
Yeah.
00:44:54.480 --> 00:44:57.599
So um You sneaky little wolf, you sneaky hound.
00:44:57.679 --> 00:44:58.239
Oh my god.
00:44:58.400 --> 00:44:59.519
I could go on and on.
00:45:01.440 --> 00:45:03.920
So the judges were like, no, you don't get it.
00:45:04.159 --> 00:45:05.840
Werewolves work for Satan.
00:45:05.920 --> 00:45:07.599
And they've like, they tried to argue with him.
00:45:07.679 --> 00:45:08.800
There was some back and forth.
00:45:09.039 --> 00:45:12.719
Eventually, they talked to him about some of his other religious beliefs.
00:45:12.800 --> 00:45:23.199
And this is one thing that also a lot of werewolfism might be is like, we're in a time when religion was changing, Christianity was sweeping over, it was taking over old pagan religions and traditions.
00:45:23.280 --> 00:45:29.280
And a lot of these like animalistic rituals and stuff were probably just holdovers from old religions.
00:45:29.519 --> 00:45:34.960
I'm just like imagining These's friends in the crowd being like, dude, shut up shut your mouth.
00:45:35.119 --> 00:45:36.239
Like, no, stop.
00:45:36.480 --> 00:45:36.719
Yeah.
00:45:37.119 --> 00:45:46.079
In the end, what he was like mostly convicted of, like he was convicted of being a werewolf, but he was mostly convicted of practicing like anti-Christian religion, sort of.
00:45:46.320 --> 00:45:54.320
He he had this one, apparently he had this little like charm he would do where he would take a warm beer and then bless some salt and sprinkle the salt in it.
00:45:54.400 --> 00:46:04.559
And then he would say, Sun and moon go over the sea, fetch back the soul that the devil had taken to hell, and give the cattle back life and health, which has taken from them, and then he would drink the beer.
00:46:04.639 --> 00:46:08.239
And so they were like, Oh, you're like inch, you're committing like enchantment.
00:46:08.400 --> 00:46:11.360
So that was like it was like leading people away from Christianity.
00:46:11.519 --> 00:46:15.199
I'm assuming this was in a different language because like I was waiting for the rhyme.
00:46:15.360 --> 00:46:16.800
I was like waiting for the little jingle.
00:46:17.840 --> 00:46:22.480
I'm sorry, it was probably sounded more like my old Norse attempts.
00:46:22.639 --> 00:46:22.800
Sorry.
00:46:23.039 --> 00:46:28.000
So it sounds like he's just an eccentric dude who didn't know how to keep his mouth shut.
00:46:28.320 --> 00:46:30.719
Thankfully, they did not execute him.
00:46:30.800 --> 00:46:32.559
This is why I like this story a little better.
00:46:32.719 --> 00:46:36.159
They were like, Okay, you're a werewolf, you say you're good, we disagree.
00:46:36.320 --> 00:46:42.639
They only they did flog him, not cool, like horrible, but he lived, and then they banished him.
00:46:42.719 --> 00:46:45.840
And honestly, if I was at this, I'd be like, good, bye, everyone.
00:46:45.920 --> 00:46:46.639
You guys suck.
00:46:46.719 --> 00:46:48.559
I'm gonna go continue living my werewolf.
00:46:48.800 --> 00:46:53.920
I hope he was like kind of sexy and that like all the like bars he frequented after that.
00:46:54.079 --> 00:46:56.719
I mean, he probably like was like rocking up to some girls.
00:46:56.800 --> 00:46:58.639
I mean, like, you know, they call me the hound.
00:46:59.599 --> 00:47:03.440
Like, I'm an ex-convict, not a big deal.
00:47:03.679 --> 00:47:06.480
Like, yeah, so I like to think of old Thiece.
00:47:06.559 --> 00:47:09.280
Uh, he he makes the story of Peter Stump is too depressing.
00:47:09.360 --> 00:47:11.920
The story of Old Thieves is a little more of a end on, yeah.
00:47:12.159 --> 00:47:13.199
Poor Peter.
00:47:13.599 --> 00:47:16.400
So, as you see, we're still in medieval Europe.
00:47:16.480 --> 00:47:19.599
We're still in the time when people are executing people for being witches and werewolves.
00:47:19.679 --> 00:47:24.079
Old Thieves mentioned the moon in that little enchantment, but that had nothing to do with turning him into a wolf or anything.
00:47:24.159 --> 00:47:37.440
We so we've yet to see a full moon turning someone into a wolf, we've yet to see someone bitten to become a werewolf, we've yet to see a silver bullet, we've yet to see a lot of the things that like to me, I kept waiting, like, okay, so when are the werewolves coming when I was doing all this research.
00:47:37.599 --> 00:47:37.760
Right.
00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:50.000
So we've got a little more history to get through next time, and then we're gonna start to look at like true modern werewolf and kind of how they transform some of these things we've already talked about into what we now see in modern history.
00:47:50.239 --> 00:48:06.079
But even at this point, I already feel like I have a little bit of a determination on the cursed-ishness of this whole idea of werewolves, of they were cursing people to death for supposed werewolfism, and right there that is just like such a horrific- I mean, I'm not surprised.
00:48:06.159 --> 00:48:07.199
We all know that kind of stuff happened.
00:48:07.440 --> 00:48:08.239
Curse of the dumb-dums.
00:48:08.559 --> 00:48:11.280
Yeah, but it's it was just like, oh, of course.
00:48:11.760 --> 00:48:16.559
You know, a hundred years, a few hundred years into these stories of werewolves, they were already killing people because of it.
00:48:16.639 --> 00:48:21.119
So it's just like, right there, that is just like, uh, humanity, we're just we are the curse, aren't we?
00:48:21.360 --> 00:48:22.559
We are such a curse.
00:48:22.800 --> 00:48:34.400
Like, and whoever whoever put this little recipe together and tipped a little too much bloodlust into the into the bowl, they were a curse as well, whomever you are, god or otherwise.
00:48:34.639 --> 00:48:36.239
Like, what were you thinking?
00:48:36.480 --> 00:48:40.239
Making us these fucked up little creatures that do this nasty stuff.
00:48:41.119 --> 00:48:46.239
That's what you'll see is this we do fucked up stuff and we need to come up with stories to explain it.
00:48:46.320 --> 00:48:48.719
And and we're gonna see some more of that next week.
00:48:48.800 --> 00:48:53.760
So we'll So do you think like whoever our creator was was like, it's a means to an end.
00:48:53.920 --> 00:48:55.519
We're gonna get some sick lore.
00:48:55.840 --> 00:48:56.320
Maybe.
00:48:56.559 --> 00:48:57.599
Yeah, maybe.
00:48:57.679 --> 00:49:00.480
Um, now it's making a little more sense to me.
00:49:00.639 --> 00:49:01.119
Fine.
00:49:01.360 --> 00:49:07.840
But I think uh, you know, we'll we'll we'll go into that next week, and but for now we'll just have to leave it at uh maybe curse, maybe not.
00:49:08.000 --> 00:49:09.920
Alright, see you next week.
00:49:17.039 --> 00:49:19.280
Cursed is an ish media production.
00:49:19.440 --> 00:49:23.679
It explores stories of alleged curses, historical mysteries, and supernatural claims.
00:49:23.920 --> 00:49:30.400
While we do investigate the history and the evidence behind these stories, ultimately you should decide for yourself what to believe.
00:49:30.639 --> 00:49:37.039
If you have questions, comments, or your own accursed tales to share, send us a hex at uh oh at curstish.com.
00:49:37.119 --> 00:49:42.400
That's uh oh u h o h all one word at curstish all one word.com