Taking Down The Real Sopranos: The Seamus McElearney Story

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They were the basis of the Sopranos.
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And there is a lot of things in there about they talk about no show jobs or no work jobs.
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And then you have the Wall Street thing, and then obviously the thing with with Tony owning the strip club, which is in there, Sabata Bing, which is based out in Jersey.
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I think it's it's not that's called Satin Balls, I think.
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Um but then I also heard him compared to a guy named John Riggie that was over there.
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So like is it is Tony kind of a culmination of a few different people?
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Or what's your opinion?
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I think so, and we can like you know we can we can talk about that in the sense is okay, so the show starts, right?
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The first season, um Jack Capriel is the boss in the show, dies of stomach cancer.
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Yep.
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In real life, Jacob Maury dies of stomach cancer in June of 1997.
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Very ironic.
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Then, as you just said, you have the strip club in New Jersey, the one in Queens.
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Then the bread and butter of the T.
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Kelly Kanti family is the unions.
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They had two unions.
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Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to Crime and Entertainment.
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I'm here with former FBI agent Seamus McElhone.
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Seamus, how are you doing, my friend?
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I'm doing good, Wade.
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Hey, look here, this interview's been a long time coming.
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I seen you on my good friend Matt Cox's podcast.
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And you know I love Matt to death, but he doesn't know a whole lot about the mob and organized crime.
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So I said, I need that guy's phone number, and luckily you were able to come and join us here and there in my studios in New York.
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And I'm excited to have you on, my friend.
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I'm really looking forward to it.
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It's great to be here.
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Well, thank you very much.
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So, as we mentioned, former FBI agent, one of the first cases, and correct me if I'm wrong, this was very early on in your career, was going undercover into the De Cavalcanti family.
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Tell me a little bit about that.
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Sure.
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Uh well the the this case starts even before I went to training.
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It starts in January of 1998, where three individuals decided to rob the World Trade Center.
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Yep.
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However, uh, they got caught pretty quickly.
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The mastermind behind that was a guy named Ralph Guarino.
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So Ralph had instructed them to come out on a certain floor, uh, but they didn't listen to him, and they came out on a different floor, and they decided to take their mask off and were caught pretty quickly.
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If I remember correctly, two guys were caught that day.
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The third guy fled to New Mexico and was caught within days.
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Ralph, uh, since he was the mastermind behind it, was smart enough to call uh a legendary agent named George Hanna because he realized the walls were starting to cave in and that the cops are going to be starting to look for him sooner or later.
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So he called George Hanna, who was uh an agent from Brooklyn, a street guy himself.
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He was born and raised in Brooklyn, and George convinces him to become a proactive witness.
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When I say a proactive witness, that's uh a witness who's gonna make consensual recordings and stay on the street.
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The beauty of a proactive witness is you never know where they're gonna take you, right?
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Because they can speak to someone from a different family, they could speak to someone from a gang, you just never know who they're going to record a conversation with.
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Where Ralph led us was the Brooklyn faction of the DeCavalcanti family.
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Because you're probably thinking, how does the New York FBI take down the Jersey family?
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Right.
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And that's what happened.
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Ralph led us to the Brooklyn faction of the De Cavalcanti family.
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The second event that kind of starts this case, and if I remember correctly, the robbery took place on January 14th, 1998.
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The second event was the murder of a guy named Joseph Canigliero.
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Joseph Canigliero was a DeCavalcanti associate who was confined to a wheelchair.
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So you're probably asking, how did he get confined to a wheelchair?
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So that happened in the 1970s when him and a DeCavalcanti soldier named James Gallo went to go collect loan shark money from a victim.
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Uh when they went to go collect the loan shark money, if I remember correctly, he was in a vehicle and they went around to the sides of the vehicle, and Jimmy Gallo accidentally shot Joseph Canigliero.
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Yeah, loading a gun, I think.
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Yeah.
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And uh he was paralyzed from the 70s up until his death in 1998.
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So the reason that he was killed was because he was, even though he was in a wheelchair, he was a ruthless person.
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What he used to do is he would call individuals over to his wheelchair and kill them and have his crew then uh put him in a torp and then just bury them.
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So his crew, he used to extort them himself.
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They just got sick of him because he was such a ruthless person and they wanted to kill him.
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And that's what happened.
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They actually killed him in January of 1998.
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If I remember correctly, it was January 23rd.
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So those are the two events that start this case.
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I don't even go to Quantico until February of 1998.
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So the case is starting weeks before I even go to training.
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So I go to training.
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Um I'm down in training.
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I graduate in May of 1998.
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I'm lucky enough to get back sent back to New York.
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I'm born and raised in New York.
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I was uh born in the city, raised in the Bronx.
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Um so when you go through training, they tell you if you're from New York, there's a 99% chance you're gonna get sent back to New York.
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If I had been sent to any other field office, I would have been.
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I'm gonna just probably do a little bit of the sirens.
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Okay.
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Where was I?
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Uh where you're talking about uh probably gonna get sent back.
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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So basically, um there's a 99% chance you're gonna get sent back to New York.
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So I was fortunate to be sent back to New York because if I got sent back to another field office, I was gonna be kind of shocked by that.
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I wasn't prepared for that.
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So I got spent sent back to New York.
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And when you get sent back to New York, every other field office is different.
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But when I got sent back to New York, they throw you through a rotation.
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When you one of the parts of rotation is going to surveillance, and I got sent to a squad called SO2, and SO2 just happened to be doing dedicated surveillance on Ralph Guarino, who, as I said, was a proactive witness that we had uh targeting the decalcantes at that particular time.
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Uh so I was fortunate enough to get on that that team that was monitoring Ralph, and then sure enough, in December of 1998, I get assigned to a squad called C-10, and C-10 is responsible for the banana family.
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And then because Ralph, because George had flipped Ralph and convinced him to be a proactive witness, they were now responsible for running and investigating the decablocantes.
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So that squad, C-10, had two missions, the bananos and the decaplicantes.
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I get assigned to that squad, and I get assigned to help George with the decalocantes.
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So that's how this case starts.
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Okay.
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So I've heard some of those names before from the people that I interviewed.
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Which one did they call him the pig?
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Which one was that?
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The pig, I don't think I've heard that before.
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Okay, that escapes me.
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I was just speaking with um Zach before we started, and he was asking me about that.
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Um, but he did mention about the the accident in the car where the guy was reloading the gun, the gun went off and then it shot him.
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He did talk about that.
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Yes.
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So you get you're you're fresh out of the as I say, academy would be the right term for it, right?
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Correct.
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You're fresh out of the academy, you get thrust into this.
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Growing up, I'm assuming you said you were born and raised in Brooklyn.
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Obviously, you knew of the mob and its presence.
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Uh, how did you feel about that going in?
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Well, I was born and raised in the Bronx.
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Okay, so you had definitely deep in there then.
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Yes.
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Uh, but I was familiar with the mob, but really didn't have a lot of interaction with the mob.
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I was curious about the mob when I was going through training.
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I was reading books about it.
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I was reading on Underboss, I think it was called about Sammy.
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Sammy.
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Uh so that brought attention to it, and I was I wanted to work that violation because the beauty of the mob is they're into everything, wherever they can make money.
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That's and to me, that was great.
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If you go to the DEA, it's just drugs.
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If you're working FBI, working white-collar, it's just white collar.
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The beauty of the mob is whatever they can make money.
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So that's the violation that I wanted to work.
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Now, when you go into the FBI, you really don't have a choice.
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It's the needs of the Bureau and they assign you.
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I was just lucky enough to get assigned to that particular squad.
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So the stars were aligned for me.
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As I said, getting out of training, getting assigned to that surveillance team, and then ultimately getting to assign to that particular squad.
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So when I get to that squad, I'm helping George with all the administrative work behind Ralph because people don't realize when you make a consensual recording, the recording could be three hours.
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It could take six hours to listen to that because, as you know, these guys talk in code.
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They could be in a diner, they could be in a nightclub, they could be in a car, and they talk very low.
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So you have to listen to that nugget of information that you might want to put into an indictment.
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During the two years that we operated Ralph, he made about 300 consensual recordings and we had about a thousand surveillance logs.
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So that's a lot to go through to prepare an indictment.
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So we operated him for two years, and then we come into our first indictment that we're going to take down.
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And that was in December of 1999, where we arrested 39 individuals through various families that Rao was able to get conversations with.
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And during that time period, uh, for all the hard work that I did during those year and a half as a new agent, and basically as a new agent, you just do you do what you're told, right?
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Because you're lucky to be an agent in the first place.
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I get assigned to arrest Anthony Capo, a violent decavalcante soldier from Staten Island.
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I was shocked by that because A, I'm a new agent.
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You're lucky to be on an arrest team, and when you're on an arrest team, you're basically assigned to rear security for your own safety.
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And here I am going to be assigned as the team leader, meaning that I'm responsible to arrest him, form a team, and make sure everything goes right that day.
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Right.
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So now Anthony Capo, he what was his rank at the time?
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Was he a boss or uh was he a soldier?
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Soldier, okay.
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Now, up until that time period, unbeknownst to me, uh, no one the D.
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Calvocante, no maiden member in the D.
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Calvocante family had ever flipped before.
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Yep.
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So I arrest him.
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Um before I arrested him, I had I had watched how George operated Ralph for those two years, operated him with respect, treated him kindly, and Anthony had a vicious reputation, horrible reputation with law enforcement, extremely hostile.
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So despite that, I was going to treat him that way.
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I did my research on him.
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I found out that he was a diabetic.
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So that day I didn't want him to flatline on me.
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I made sure that I had orange juice with me.
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I made sure that I had chocolate with me.
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Um, I I studied him like you would study for a test.
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I knew everything about him.
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I knew about where he lived, his phone numbers, his kids' dates of birth, their names, his wife's name, his family members' names, everything about him.
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So when I went to go arrest him, you do a lot of pre-planning work related to that.
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When we went to his house, he wasn't there.
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And his wife said that he's at his mom's house.
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So all the planning that you did related to, finding out where he lived, making sure that there's no one else in the house goes out the window.
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So now we're run running blind.
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We go to his mom's house and he's there.
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Doesn't give us any trouble at all.
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And I see a very uh loving relationship with his current family that's there.
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And that, you know, I wouldn't say it kind of threw me for a loop, but everything, this built-up notion how violent he was and this reputation that he had, I didn't see it initially, even though he was with his family.
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So um we get him dressed, he comes out, he's wearing a Dallas Cowboy jacket.
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I'm a Steeler fan, so I don't like the Cowboys.
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So we immediately had this banter back and forth, which is good.
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I read him his rights, and he immediately invoked his right to counsel and right his wrote his rights remained silent.
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So at that point in time, I cannot ask him any more questions, right?
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But that doesn't mean that I can't give him statements.
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And he was charged with um conspiracy to murder Charlie Majurry, who was an acting panel boss at the time, and with mail fraud.
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So I wanted to throw him some nuggets, let him have some food for thought.
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So related to the conspiracy to murder Charlie Majurry, I said to him, Your plan was to ring his doorbell and shoot him in the face.
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The reason that you didn't do that, because there was a cop on that block that lived on that block on a cul-de-sac.
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That was a hard truth.
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So again, I said, Don't say anything, just listen to what I'm saying.
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Because he had already invoked his right to counsel.
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So that was a truth that I had gotten from the consensual recording.
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So you got to put yourself in his shoes at six o'clock in the morning, because that's when the FBI likes to arrest people when you're half asleep.
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And I just gave him a hard truth.
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You lie to these guys, you're done.
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Right?
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You cannot lie to them.
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Second thing is you try to be a tough guy with them, and you're not, they're gonna see right, right, right through you.
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So he knew that was a hard truth.
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The second thing I did is we talked about the mail fraud.
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Years ago, you would rent mailboxes at like um like a post office or a um a box store, and it would say suite, and the general public would think that you had this nice office space.
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And that's what they did because they were this mail fraud was related to a stock fraud that they were trying to do.
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So I kind of was busting his shops a little bit, saying, Okay, that was really cute of you guys to rent this suite that you guys got.
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So again, I told him, Don't say anything, just listen to me.
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So those are two hard facts that he got.
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So he knew that I was giving him some hard truths, so I just gave him some food for thought to think about.
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I turned away, talked to the driver, going back and forth.
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Then he blurted out to me, he goes, We knew you guys were coming.
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Because when you arrest uh a target, you have to call the operations center and say that you have them in pocket and no one and no one got hurt.
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When we did that, I called in.
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I was hearing that a lot of people were not in pocket, meaning that they weren't at their house.
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And he overheard that.
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He said that we knew you guys were coming, meaning that we had a problem, that there was a leak.
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So he didn't have to say that, but I think I don't know if he was trying to rib me a little bit or not, but he was just trying to give me some information there.
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So that would later come out to be some significant information that we were going to get from him.
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So that meant that we had a problem, that there was a leak somewhere, either from the FBI's office, the southern district court reporter, or someone was giving information.
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So that day we spent the entire day together.
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I did give him some orange juice for his blood sugar.
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So he saw that as an olive branch where I was treating him like a human a human being.
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And he did say to me later on, that interaction with me that day was the first time that his interaction with law enforcement, where someone treated him with respect, and it was uh a cordial relationship, a cordial interaction.
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And he goes, That had a lot to do with him flipping later on.
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So um, we went back to 26 Federal Plaza.
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Uh, I met his stepfather that day, it was cordial with him, and we spent the entire day together.
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And one of the things that happened was we started talking a lot that day.
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One of the times is we were in a room with a lot of the other defendants, like 38 other defendants, when they were all picked up.
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He was getting a little bit too chatty with me.
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And I kind of told him, Don't give the appearance that you're too chatty with me because they're gonna think that you're cooperating.
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So he appreciated that because he just kind of let his guard down.
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So um he uh he kind of stopped and then that that went fine.
00:15:17.600 --> 00:15:20.559
Sure enough, about a week later, his lawyer called.
00:15:20.720 --> 00:15:24.960
It was a Thursday night, I remember, and his lawyer called and said that he wanted to cooperate.
00:15:25.120 --> 00:15:27.679
And I almost fell off my chair.
00:15:27.840 --> 00:15:29.840
And I was very surprised by that.
00:15:30.080 --> 00:15:36.240
As you mentioned before, I was a new agent at the time, only basically had about a year on the job or so, or about a year and a half on the job.
00:15:36.399 --> 00:15:41.519
Um, I immediately called the assistant from the Southern District because that was that that's where this case was out of.
00:15:41.679 --> 00:15:45.120
And she was very concerned as to what did I say to the lawyer, right?
00:15:45.200 --> 00:15:47.600
And always in these situations, less is more.
00:15:47.840 --> 00:15:49.519
And I said I was going to call you.
00:15:49.759 --> 00:15:50.799
Simple as that.
00:15:51.039 --> 00:15:54.480
And then we uh I called my bosses to let them know.
00:15:54.879 --> 00:15:58.320
Very, very, very happy, and then that starts the proffer process.
00:15:58.480 --> 00:15:58.879
Right.
00:15:59.120 --> 00:16:10.320
So uh a proffer is when you come in, you're uh you have your defense attorney there, you have your client there, and then from the government, you have agents and you have the attorney for the government.
00:16:10.480 --> 00:16:12.399
And it's basically called a queen for a day.
00:16:12.639 --> 00:16:15.120
Queen for a day, yeah, where they can basically just spill their guts.
00:16:15.200 --> 00:16:17.840
But the key to that is they have they can't withhold anything.
00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:18.480
Right.
00:16:18.639 --> 00:16:20.000
It's like you can't lie.
00:16:20.240 --> 00:16:25.519
If you lie, then like they can call me in a court of law and I can testify against you.
00:16:25.840 --> 00:16:44.399
And what I mean by that is like say that it went south, right, and things didn't work out, and then you decided to go to trial, and you were on the stand saying that you were going to dispute something and you lied, then I could be called to the stand and basically testify against you, saying, No, during the proffer, you said X, Y, and Z.
00:16:44.799 --> 00:16:48.720
So, uh, but you are protected, you can't use your words against you.
00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:54.879
So during that proffer, uh, I'm there with George Hannah, the agent that I mentioned before, who's a legend in himself.
00:16:54.960 --> 00:16:57.440
And if you read the book, you'll find out why he's a legend.
00:16:57.679 --> 00:17:02.799
Uh, yes, I had a great start to my career, but you should re read how he started his career.
00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:04.480
Absolutely amazing.
00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:09.920
And then there was a Southern District investigator named Kenny McCabe, uh, a legend himself.
00:17:10.160 --> 00:17:14.400
And the assistant was Maria Barton and and myself.
00:17:14.720 --> 00:17:18.720
So Anthony comes in and tells us three things off the bat.
00:17:19.039 --> 00:17:29.839
He tells us there's a leak in the Southern District, that an alleged court reporter was feeding information to some of the mob guys, and they knew we were coming, that they knew the indictment was coming.
00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:36.160
He tells us that he was the driver on the Fred Weiss murder.
00:17:36.480 --> 00:17:47.839
Fred Weiss was an individual from Staten Island who was Jewish, who got involved with the Gambino family, and he was killed on orders as a favor to John Gotti.
00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:52.319
The reason that he was killed was because he switched lawyers.
00:17:52.640 --> 00:17:53.680
He thought he was cooperating.
00:17:53.920 --> 00:17:56.000
John Gotti thought he was cooperating.
00:17:56.319 --> 00:18:03.359
Pure speculation on John Gotti's part and pure paranoia on John Gotti's part uh because he switched lawyers.
00:18:03.599 --> 00:18:08.720
He was killed in September 11th, horrible day of 1989.
00:18:09.119 --> 00:18:12.720
Fred Weiss was arrested in June of 89 that year.
00:18:12.960 --> 00:18:15.200
And Fred Weiss was not cooperating.
00:18:15.359 --> 00:18:16.799
He just switched lawyers.
00:18:17.200 --> 00:18:22.640
And but John Gotti thought he was cooperating, and as a result of that, he was killed.
00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:26.880
Now that murder is probably one of the most indictable mob murders ever.
00:18:27.200 --> 00:18:29.680
Between because it became a race to kill him.
00:18:30.079 --> 00:18:34.000
The Gambinos were gonna kill him, and the Decalcantes were gonna kill him.
00:18:34.240 --> 00:18:45.039
The Decalvicantes were trying to ingratiate themselves to the Gambinos, especially John D'Amato, who is the acting boss, official underboss at that particular point in time.
00:18:45.519 --> 00:18:54.640
So um I think if I remember correctly, at least 15 people have either been convicted or pled guilty between those two families.
00:18:55.599 --> 00:18:56.799
Yeah, unbelievable.
00:18:56.960 --> 00:19:05.440
And we've developed so many cooperators between those two families that they have testified about it, that they testify that they saw each other doing surveillance.
00:19:05.599 --> 00:19:15.359
And when I mean surveillance, is trying to get Fred Weiss's patterns down, like where he worked, what time he left his house in the morning, where he lived.
00:19:15.519 --> 00:19:19.359
Uh so there's testimony and and trials related to this.
00:19:19.599 --> 00:19:25.119
And as I said, at least 15 people have pled guilty or having been convicted of this murder.
00:19:25.359 --> 00:19:28.319
Anthony was the driver in that murder.
00:19:28.960 --> 00:19:35.920
Vincent Lambert was the shooter, and James Gallo, who accidentally shot Joseph Canigliero, was also the shooter in this particular murder.
00:19:36.640 --> 00:19:42.559
The third thing he tells us is that he is the shooter in the John D'Amato murder.
00:19:42.799 --> 00:19:49.839
Now, John D'Amato, as we just mentioned before, was the um acting boss at one point, official underboss.
00:19:50.160 --> 00:20:07.440
The reason why he was killed, uh, and he was killed in 1991, was because John D'Amato's girlfriend comes to Anthony and tells Anthony that John D'Amato is taking her to sex clubs in New York City and he's having sex with men.
00:20:07.839 --> 00:20:09.519
And you know, to each his own.
00:20:09.680 --> 00:20:10.480
I I don't care.
00:20:10.640 --> 00:20:14.559
But Anthony told us we can't have a leader of men acting this way.
00:20:15.039 --> 00:20:24.240
So Anthony reported that to his superiors, uh Vincent Palermo, Anthony Retundo, Rudy Farrone at the time, and they decided that he had to be killed.
00:20:24.400 --> 00:20:25.200
And that's what happened.
00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:31.119
So I did want to expand on that a little bit because I've interviewed and I think I mentioned it to you, uh James Siracco.
00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:32.559
They called him Jimmy Easy.
00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:33.920
Um he came out with a book.
00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:38.960
I think the name, the book was the name they gave him in Wit Stake was Zach Caruso or something like that.
00:20:39.200 --> 00:20:43.359
Um we talked about that, and so that's a point of contention, right?
00:20:43.440 --> 00:20:46.640
So why do you take the word of a woman?
00:20:46.799 --> 00:20:51.440
Like, I mean, obviously, you know, these mob guys, they do the thing, they have gummoz on the side.
00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:53.279
This could be a woman scorned or whatever.
00:20:53.359 --> 00:20:54.400
I'm not saying it wasn't true.
00:20:54.480 --> 00:21:00.319
There seems to be a lot of evidence that it may have been true, but it does seem like you're taking the word of a woman very easily.
00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:05.119
Was it just they needed something to come up to give them a reason, and that was good enough?
00:21:05.440 --> 00:21:08.480
Well, that's that's the the first reason.
00:21:08.640 --> 00:21:09.839
Now there's a second reason.
00:21:10.079 --> 00:21:10.319
Okay.
00:21:10.480 --> 00:21:12.640
So that's Anthony Capo's story.
00:21:12.880 --> 00:21:28.640
When you speak to Anthony Retondo, right, who's very by the book, by the rules, he says that he should have been killed because John DeMotta was borrowing money from all the other families and saying it was for the Di Calvocanti family.
00:21:28.799 --> 00:21:33.359
When it wasn't for the DeCalvicante family, it was for his gambling losses.
00:21:33.680 --> 00:21:37.519
So adding all those two things together was the reason that he was killed.
00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:45.759
So it wasn't just because he was gay and he was taking uh going to sex clubs, uh, but that initiated the whole process.
00:21:46.079 --> 00:21:46.880
That makes more sense.
00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:59.839
But it the second reason was because he borrowed, and I don't even know how much, it could have been seven hundred and fifty thousand to a million dollars from the other families, and saying it was for the De Calvocanti family, meaning the De Calacanti family is on the hook.
00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:02.319
when it really was for his gambling losses.
00:22:02.559 --> 00:22:02.960
Gotcha.
00:22:03.200 --> 00:22:04.559
So those are the two reasons.
00:22:04.720 --> 00:22:11.440
And I understand what you're saying there about not just putting it on one lady, how a woman scorned is never a good thing.
00:22:11.519 --> 00:22:12.799
We we all know that.
00:22:13.359 --> 00:22:15.680
But those are the reasons that they actually said it.
00:22:15.920 --> 00:22:16.079
Okay.
00:22:16.160 --> 00:22:19.920
And those are definitely more legitimate reasons to why you would take some after borrowing money.
00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:25.680
Because I mean a lot of these guys, I mean you you hear the stories about John Gotti having major gambling problems and everybody else.
00:22:25.759 --> 00:22:36.240
And even in the Sopranos, there's a a section in there, I think it's around the fifth or sixth season, where Tony's got a run of bad luck and he has to borrow money from Hesh to pay it off and Hesh is worried he might take him out.
00:22:36.400 --> 00:22:39.200
You know, he's like at what point is it better for him to handle it another way?
00:22:39.359 --> 00:22:39.599
Exactly.
00:22:39.920 --> 00:22:43.759
A lot of these guys no matter how much money they have they still just love gambling.
00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:50.720
And so unfortunately that can whether you're in prison or whether you're on the streets that can ultimately lead to some bad endings as it did here.
00:22:50.960 --> 00:22:51.680
That's true.
00:22:51.920 --> 00:23:03.519
So those are the the three things that he tells us right off the gate right out of right out of the gate right so we have to huddle right uh because we have to determine if he's telling us the truth or not.
00:23:03.680 --> 00:23:14.720
And when you proper it's a very dicey thing right you can't you have to go full speed you can't be half pregnant where you have to tell the truth right because it's it's a dicey thing.
00:23:14.799 --> 00:23:16.240
You're being moved from prison.
00:23:16.400 --> 00:23:19.200
So the bad guys know that okay where is Anthony?
00:23:19.279 --> 00:23:24.480
He's been moved right so you have to make sure that you're you're going to do this you have to do you have to do it right.
00:23:24.640 --> 00:23:26.480
So we have to decide if he's telling us the truth.
00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:45.680
Obviously he's telling us the truth because he just exposed himself to a life sentence so we have to move into a facility and then that starts the spiral effect of cooperation that we start to get so as I find out after because I didn't know that he was the first made member in the family's 100 year history at that particular point in time to cooperate.
00:23:46.079 --> 00:24:22.960
And that's in December of 99 shortly after uh we had arrested him right but the arrest was December 2nd of night of 99 and literally a week later he decides to to cooperate um personally at that time uh my dad was already sick um he had passed away shortly after about December 17th or so and the reason I bring it up because during that time period is Anthony tells us that John D'Amato and Joseph Garrafano were buried up in Phil Lamella's um recycling plant in Marlborough, New York.
00:24:23.200 --> 00:24:28.799
So when you get information like that you have to act upon it right away because fear of the bad guys moving the bodies.
00:24:29.359 --> 00:24:33.839
Now Anthony didn't put the bodies there but he knew they were up there.
00:24:34.079 --> 00:24:39.519
So I had to go get a search warrant in the Northern District of New York and execute a search warrant.
00:24:39.759 --> 00:24:44.400
So we do that and when we go there a couple of factors have happened.
00:24:44.559 --> 00:25:03.279
I've been very successful in my career where I found five bodies throughout my career but in this particular sense we did not find any bodies at all a because Philomello had changed the structure of his building and second of all the area that we were describing was uh bigger than a football field.
00:25:03.519 --> 00:25:06.880
So there could be a body buried in this room and we might not find it.
00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:07.119
Right.
00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:09.279
Very very hard to find a body.
00:25:09.599 --> 00:25:33.759
So uh as I said Anthony didn't put the bodies there he knew they went there so we actually execute a search warrant uh I remember we had did the search warrant finished that day I went to go see my dad that night my brother who works with the FBI as well we were going to go home and my mom had this sixth sense that we should stay that night and we did and actually my dad passed away that day.
00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:35.839
Sorry passed away that night.
00:25:36.079 --> 00:25:49.519
Ironically we have the wake and I'm at the wake I'm actually at the wake and my phone rings and it's Anthony Capo offering his condolences for my dad passing because I told his mom that I was going to be out of action for a couple of days.
00:25:49.680 --> 00:25:58.559
So very uh ironic and eerie that we're looking for a body that he helped put some people up there and next we know he's calling me at my dad's wake.
00:25:59.119 --> 00:26:03.440
So we get through all that and then we continue the proffer process.
00:26:03.599 --> 00:26:18.640
And then in March of 90 of 2000 who comes forward but Vinnie Palermo to cooperate who was the acting boss at the time there was a panel but he was known as the acting boss as he had the stronger personality.
00:26:18.799 --> 00:26:32.559
And I know when we go back and forth with the Sopranos uh Vincent Palermo had a strip club in Queens you have the strip club yes you saw you have the strip club and the actual show um people think why did Vinny cooperate?
00:26:32.799 --> 00:26:39.839
Well A, at that particular point in time, Anthony was so hard to control that he reported directly to Vinny.
00:26:40.400 --> 00:26:44.559
Second of all Vinny and Anthony did a lot of crimes together.
00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:55.200
So when Anthony is being debriefed and telling us all the crimes he did he keeps on bringing Vinny's names up now we had moved Anthony so word is traveling quickly.
00:26:55.279 --> 00:27:02.960
They obviously know we just execute a search warrant how did we get the names how did we get the information with a search warrant so they know Anthony is playing playing ball with us.
00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:11.200
So Vinny decides to make a business a business decision to cooperate right uh and that's what he does in March of 2000.
00:27:11.599 --> 00:27:12.960
He's he's in the door now.
00:27:13.039 --> 00:27:17.599
So now we have a soldier and we have an acting boss and we have Ralph the associate.
00:27:17.839 --> 00:27:21.359
About a month later we go and approach Victor Di Chiera.
00:27:21.920 --> 00:27:33.680
Victor lived in Long Beach at the time Victor was the driver in the John D'Amato homicide and he also was part of the murder of the conspiracy to murder Charlie Major.
00:27:34.319 --> 00:27:47.519
So I go and approach Victor and arrest him just on the conspiracy to murder Charlie Major because we couldn't arrest him on the John D'Amato murder yet because we were still debriefing Vinny to get more information.
00:27:47.759 --> 00:27:53.920
So when I went to go arrest him I said someone told me that you said shoot him again.
00:27:54.160 --> 00:27:56.960
That's all I said and he knew exactly what I was talking about.
00:27:57.119 --> 00:27:59.039
So he knew that Anthony was cooperating.
00:27:59.200 --> 00:28:04.880
So by the time he got back to 26 Federal Plaza he was cooperating.
00:28:05.039 --> 00:28:06.960
So now we have another associate.
00:28:07.279 --> 00:28:14.000
So same process you proffer and then what happens is proffer leads to cooperation agreements.
00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:19.519
And when you have a cooperation agreement you have to plead guilty and you plead guilty to all your crimes.
00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:24.880
So just to give you an example um Anthony pled guilty in June of 2000.
00:28:25.039 --> 00:29:25.680
Initially he was just charged with conspiracy to murder Charlie Majori and the mail fraud he ended up pleading guilty to two murders 11 murder conspiracies extortion and every crime you could think of so he exposed himself to a life sentence Vinny pled guilty to a couple of murders um Victor pled guilty to stock fraud conspiracy to murder he pled guilty to a couple of the murders as well and then we take all their information and we want to use it for an indictment and that's what we do in October of 2000 we have our first really big indictment based upon their information and we call that the hierarchy indictment where we're going to take out the official boss John Riggy who's in jail already the consigliero Steve Battabli who I arrest a bunch of captains I remember Philibramo Luke Consalvo who lived in New York City here then a bunch of associates.
00:29:25.759 --> 00:29:37.839
So I think we arrest like 13 people what's significant about that arrest is we arrest an associate named Frank Scarabino Frankie the Beast and Frank decides to cooperate.
00:29:38.079 --> 00:29:42.160
Frank comes forward and gives us some very heavy information.
00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:55.440
Frank tells us that there's a contract on Anthony Capo, Anthony Capo's wife and his kids and that they're going back to the old Sicilian ways and they want to hurt law enforcement.
00:29:55.759 --> 00:30:01.599
So that's when it got real real quickly right here I am a new agent I'm the one that flipped Anthony Capo.
00:30:02.160 --> 00:30:12.720
So you know as an agent you're concerned about threats all the time you're like you you're like used to threats but as a new agent and now you're hearing it firsthand it gets serious pretty pretty quickly.
00:30:13.359 --> 00:30:24.160
So we have to act on that right so thankfully um as Frank Scarpino told us his line his ethics line was when they said to kill the kids he wasn't going to do that.
00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:35.920
So yeah because typically they kind of make the them off limits like the wife and kids are usually off limits but when you're talking about going back to the old ways I don't think there was very many limitations back in in you know that time frame.
00:30:36.400 --> 00:30:42.079
So thankfully that was his line that he was going to cross and that was prevented.
00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:48.480
The person who was really behind that was a guy named Frank Pelizzi who was the DeCalvocanti captain at the time.
00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:53.119
Now we knew this was legitimate because we were very close to the authorities in Italy.
00:30:53.279 --> 00:30:57.119
The De Cavalcanti come the De Calvocanti family comes from Rivera.
00:30:57.839 --> 00:31:10.480
So in Italy they are their laws related to getting up on wires on people's phones is a lot easier than in the states here and they were able to confirm that this was a legitimate threat.
00:31:10.640 --> 00:31:18.400
So we have to basically tell headquarters and tell all the families that this is a a legitimate threat.
00:31:18.640 --> 00:31:24.400
If I remember correctly Frank Pelizzi died on Christmas Eve of 2001.
00:31:24.720 --> 00:31:29.279
Now you can just imagine I had to go up and tell Anthony Capo about this whole thing.
00:31:29.519 --> 00:31:34.240
And up until this point I hadn't seen the other side of Anthony Capo.
00:31:34.400 --> 00:31:38.559
I had heard about the other side of Anthony Capo but I haven't seen the other side of Anthony Capo.
00:31:38.880 --> 00:31:47.039
And I didn't know how he was going to react to this right you know here I am telling him that there's a death threat against him and his family and his kids and he's in prison.
00:31:47.279 --> 00:31:57.119
He's defenseless so it was a very emotional day anger sorrow you know and trying to see how he was going to react to this.
00:31:57.279 --> 00:31:59.359
Was he going to stop cooperating?
00:31:59.599 --> 00:32:07.279
I didn't know how how he was going to take it and all he had was me to kind of protect him to protect his family because he couldn't do anything.
00:32:07.599 --> 00:32:13.440
So I think that even brought our bond a little closer together where he was relying on me to protect his family.
00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:18.720
The monkey wrench and the whole thing is is his wife refused to move off of Staten Island.
00:32:19.119 --> 00:32:26.079
So made my job a little bit harder uh to try to protect her even though letting her know this threat was extremely serious.
00:32:26.240 --> 00:32:34.079
At that point in time their relationship had kind of soured and they were going to get divorced and and and anyway but still it's you know the threat was there.
00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:39.200
Knock on wood nothing ever happened to her or the kids uh but the threat was there.
00:32:39.519 --> 00:32:44.720
So and he decided to continue to cooperate he didn't reneg on his his deal with us.
00:32:44.960 --> 00:32:59.200
So as I said um Frank Scarbino is now in the door I think we're up to maybe four cooperators now or five cooperators and uh we're still dealing with the initial arrests we have right where we arrested 39 people.
00:32:59.359 --> 00:33:02.640
So are those guys going to go to trial are they going to plead guilty?
00:33:02.799 --> 00:33:05.279
So our squad is really really busy.
00:33:05.440 --> 00:33:13.279
And I had mentioned that okay we're dealing half our squad is dealing with the bananos half our squad is dealing with this investigation.
00:33:13.519 --> 00:33:25.759
The other half the banano side they're starting to pick up their investigations and are starting to make traction as well and that's one of the reasons why I wrote the book is because uh this squad was very successful.
00:33:26.559 --> 00:33:32.799
You know we dismantled the banano family as well the press never put it together that it was the same squad.
00:33:32.960 --> 00:33:41.519
Like this squad was in the paper for probably six or seven years straight and the press never put it together that it was the same squad which was pretty funny.
00:33:41.680 --> 00:33:42.000
Yeah.
00:33:42.480 --> 00:34:04.319
So we're in October of 2000 now and then about a month or two later from our initial arrest we arrested a guy named Tommy deTora and Tommy devorer got bail and he was a mountain of a man uh we used to call him one of the twin of the towers down down here him and Joe Brightson.
00:34:04.559 --> 00:34:10.639
Tommy de Toro was part of the Joseph Canigliero murder that we had mentioned was one of two events that started this case.
00:34:11.039 --> 00:34:28.159
So Tommy's out on bail and he's seeing and hearing that all these guys are cooperating and he had talked about the murder of Joseph Canigliero with Anthony Capo, with Spencent Palermo and he knew that my God it's going to be only a matter of time before he's going to get charged with this murder.
00:34:28.400 --> 00:34:29.760
So what does he do?
00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:33.280
He decides to cooperate and he's out on bail.
00:34:33.519 --> 00:34:39.440
So we get this idea why don't we get him to make a consensual recording?
00:34:39.679 --> 00:34:46.159
Let's see if he can get everyone that participated in the murder together and discuss the murder.
00:34:46.400 --> 00:34:48.000
And that's what we do.
00:34:48.639 --> 00:34:55.679
And it turned out to be one of the best consensual recordings the Bureau has ever made where he gets all the participants in the murder together.
00:34:56.159 --> 00:35:03.679
The shooter was a guy named Marty Lewis who hadn't killed anyone before this particular murder it's really a sad story.
00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:05.840
And Marty Lewis is on tape.
00:35:05.920 --> 00:35:09.199
Now I mentioned before that Joseph Canigliero was in a wheelchair.
00:35:09.360 --> 00:35:15.119
So he had his car hooked up that he could actually drive it despite being paralyzed.
00:35:15.360 --> 00:35:32.239
So Marty Lewis is on tape saying I shot him six times I got out of the car because he shot him while he was in the car I got out of the car Joseph Canigliero drove away got to the stop sign and puts on his left blinker and drives away so this is all on tape.
00:35:32.320 --> 00:35:37.920
So you can just imagine listening to this where he says I shot him six times he drove away got to the stop sign.
00:35:38.079 --> 00:36:51.360
Even though shot six times he puts on his blinker like who has the the thought process to put on a blinker after being shot six times then he stops at Joseph Brightson's house that's the other mountain of a man the second twin tower Joseph Brightson is part of the murder as well Joseph Brightson thinks that Joseph Canigliero is already dead so you can imagine Joseph Canigliero pulling up to Joseph Brightson's house who lives on the second floor beeping the horn Joseph Brightson looking down and seeing Joe Pitts is his nickname seeing the car and like what the hell he's here he was supposed to be dead by now and Joseph Brightson goes downstairs gets in the vehicle the guy's shot six times and goes to the hospital with them then something comes out that we didn't know where Joseph Brightson has a cousin unfortunately who is an NYPD detective and Joseph Brightson calls his cousin while at the hospital and tells his cousin to come to the hospital and clear out the shells from the bullets out of the backseat of the car.
00:36:52.159 --> 00:36:55.199
So now we have a cop involved in the investigation as well.
00:36:56.000 --> 00:37:02.719
So priceless consensual recording for trial all we had to do was press play tape spoke for itself.
00:37:03.199 --> 00:37:10.559
So that was a great recording um and then time of the tour is in is in the door so I think we're up to six now.
00:37:10.719 --> 00:37:44.239
Yeah then um Anthony Rotundo uh Decalvicante captain uh and some people can say that they went to college right Anthony uh Retundo actually graduated from college so very smart guy Rarie his father was in the life um his name was Vincent Rotundo uh you probably heard of him he got killed in Staten Island the the whole thing about his murder was he had gone shopping uh for food and when he was killed there was fish on his lap and they everyone thought that was a message.
00:37:44.400 --> 00:38:08.719
Yeah don't know if it was or it wasn't but he had just gone shopping you know what I mean but Anthony was brought up in in that life you know and really didn't have a chance uh so even Anthony wasn't really made for that life but he was brought up in that life went to college was all about the rules we used to call him the scholar because he knew the rules like the back of your hand and he taught me a lot about the life about rules and everything.
00:38:09.679 --> 00:38:12.400
So Anthony comes forward and then he cooperates.
00:38:12.559 --> 00:38:38.239
So now we have seven cooperators I think which is amazing we go from none to seven and those um we have an indictment in April of 2001 and then we have another indictment in May where we arrest the cop and then we have an indictment in August of 2001 where we arrest Fritzi Giovanelli, Genevieve's captain, for the leak.
00:38:38.559 --> 00:38:48.639
So we could never arrest the person that was funneling the information because we don't have any witnesses who were getting the information directly from the person in the Southern district.
00:38:48.880 --> 00:38:57.199
We could arrest Fritzy because uh the person in the Southern district was giving the information to Fritzy and Fritzy was giving the information to the DeCavallocantes.
00:38:57.519 --> 00:39:10.480
He gave the information to Anthony Marshmallow from Florida he gave the information to Vinny he gave the information to Anthony Rotundo so in August 2001 we arrest Fritzy that's August 2001.
00:39:10.639 --> 00:39:26.800
So now we have all our indictments we have all our arrests they're all done a month later September 11th everything comes to a screeching halt where all our resources are dedicated to protecting the country everything goes on hold related to the mob.
00:39:27.119 --> 00:40:06.639
So all those initial indictments we have the 39 uh status conferences put on hold the arrest that I just talked about uh put on hold uh didn't see Anthony for a couple of months and it's like which is bad right because when you develop that relationship you want to keep it going you want to keep the debriefing going and then after I think about January of 2002 we kind of get back to it you know much to the uh chagrin of the the mob guys because after that when I would go make arrest they would always tell me you shouldn't be going after us you should go after the terrorist yeah right and leave and leave them alone right that's what they want that's what they would always say to us.
00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:33.119
So then that's 2002 and then later that year we start the trial process and you know for the general public the difference between like the feds and the state is with the federal system the agents actually sit at the table as opposed to um the locals here where a cop might testify and then he's done with the feds they're actually sitting at the table.
00:40:33.440 --> 00:40:35.760
And trial is 247.
00:40:36.320 --> 00:40:55.280
You know during the day you're at trial at night you could be prepping a witness you know constantly you have defendants in and out like as I said we had so many defendants so you're checking the uh you could strategize for 10 defendants and then someone might plead guilty and you could get down to seven defendants or six defendants so the strategy is constantly changing.
00:40:55.519 --> 00:41:03.039
So our first trial was in December of 2002 that was we call that the wheelchair trial where it was the murder of Joseph Canigliero.
00:41:03.440 --> 00:42:20.480
We had a guy named Mike Massa who I tried like hell to flip before even the 39 arrest and he just refused to cooperate and we knew he was part of the murder because he was being extorted left and right and he just refused to cooperate and on the eve of trial he took a plea of 35 years and the other guys went to trial and they all got convicted uh the cop got convicted if I remember correctly his name was uh Michael Silvestri and he got he got 13 years um his partner uh ended up cooperating against him then Brightson got life that was the guy that was on the second floor um time was the witness that made the consensual recording morty lewis got life uh there's a couple accessory after the facts they got they got uh time as well I think like 40 months or so so every everyone in that trial was con convicted so that was right before Christmas then uh again we're going through the process of getting people to plea out and my next big trial because I was on trial for an entire year and a a year of no life whatsoever because as I said when you're on trial it's 24-7 and there's prep for trial and then after and everything.
00:42:20.719 --> 00:42:38.559
So then the next big trial was the uh the Steve Otabli trial you had Steve Atabli who was the conciliere Philip Bramo captain and Pino Schiffaletti um related to the Pino Schiffaletti arrest he had actually fled to Italy and we had to extra drive extradite him back to the States which we did.
00:42:38.880 --> 00:43:29.199
So a bunch of people pled guilty before that trial so we were down to three people such as Charlie Stango um and a bunch of other people I played guilty Charlie Maggiori pled guilty well top me I don't remember him and so we were down to three that was probably the longest trial I had where it was that was over two months so um very taxing trial to tell you the truth they all got convicted um and then after that trial we had the West Palacio trial and during the West Palacio trial there was a blackout that year um that was in 2003 that August where initially Anthony was on actually Anthony was on the stand that day and first we thought there was just um the lights went off in the courthouse and then we found out it was the entire east coast.
00:43:29.280 --> 00:43:33.519
I don't I don't remember that but it was August of two of 2003.
00:43:33.840 --> 00:43:44.000
Funny story related to that is here I am thinking okay I might catch a break I get home early and um I went to go get my car and I had parked my car in an outside lot.
00:43:44.480 --> 00:43:56.639
When I went up to go get my car I gave my ticket to the parking attendant he looked at me I looked at him and then he looked up my car was on an electronic lift oh I wasn't going anywhere.
00:43:56.960 --> 00:44:06.960
So I had to go back to 26 Federal Plaza And at that time, 26 20 26 Federal Plaza had a lot of uh problems uh in their walls.
00:44:07.119 --> 00:44:09.519
There's a lot of rats in the walls at the time.
00:44:09.840 --> 00:44:14.320
So uh I didn't sleep a a lick that night, but I had to stay there the entire night.
00:44:14.559 --> 00:44:17.440
So uh these are the stories in the book, which is good.
00:44:17.760 --> 00:44:21.920
And I think what the good thing about the book is it kind of explains the witness security program.
00:44:22.320 --> 00:44:32.079
It explains how trials are done, explains how uh the cooperation process works, um, you know, explains the witness security program, I think, pretty good.
00:44:32.239 --> 00:44:34.159
How the Marshalls run run that.
00:44:34.719 --> 00:44:38.960
Um and then after that trial, we had the Jimmy Palermo trial.
00:44:39.440 --> 00:44:41.440
And he gets he gets convicted as well.
00:44:41.679 --> 00:44:49.039
I think at the end of the day, we had 71 defendants convicted, 11 murders solved, and we had seven trials.
00:44:49.280 --> 00:44:56.559
And that doesn't even account for all the times that Anthony was prepped for trial where people play guilty on the eve of trial, so there wasn't a trial.
00:44:56.719 --> 00:44:57.039
Right.
00:44:57.199 --> 00:45:00.800
Um, if I remember correctly, Anthony testified seven times for me.
00:45:01.119 --> 00:45:05.679
Anthony Rotundo testified seven times for me, uh, which was great.
00:45:05.920 --> 00:45:08.639
Um Vinny Palermo only testified once.
00:45:09.199 --> 00:45:11.440
No, he testi he he doesn't he testified twice.
00:45:11.760 --> 00:45:16.800
He testified in a metabolic trial and he testified in the Fritzi trial.
00:45:17.519 --> 00:45:30.400
Um we had a little hiccup with Vinny in the metabolity trial though, where he had basically not disclosed the money that he had to us.
00:45:31.039 --> 00:45:36.079
And the defense bluffed us right when he was gonna go to cross.
00:45:36.559 --> 00:45:40.719
They came out to us and said, Oh, Vinny didn't tell you about some some money that he had.
00:45:41.119 --> 00:45:50.159
So we went and approached Vinny and he go he he basically said that he had given money to his uh his kids and didn't tell did not tell us about that.
00:45:51.039 --> 00:45:54.800
So we uh we had to go and seize that money that day.
00:45:55.280 --> 00:45:57.679
It was like one point eight million dollars.
00:45:57.920 --> 00:45:58.400
Wow.
00:45:58.559 --> 00:45:58.880
Yeah.
00:45:59.199 --> 00:46:00.719
So they bluffed you out of that one.
00:46:00.960 --> 00:46:01.280
Yep.
00:46:01.599 --> 00:46:03.280
So we were not happy about that at all.
00:46:03.440 --> 00:46:06.880
Yeah, but it was a pure bluff by the defense, they had no clue at all.
00:46:07.039 --> 00:46:07.599
But they were right.
00:46:07.840 --> 00:46:09.360
They just figured he probably lied about something.
00:46:09.440 --> 00:46:14.400
Yeah, and if it was and I'm sure the guys that knew him knew Vinny had probably done that at some point.
00:46:14.559 --> 00:46:18.079
I mean, that's not an uncommon thing that some of these guys want to set aside a money for their kids.
00:46:18.159 --> 00:46:21.039
That's quote what they do it for, you know, take care of the kids.
00:46:21.280 --> 00:46:21.679
Wow.
00:46:21.920 --> 00:46:27.440
Yeah, so I said at the end of the day, 71 defendants convicted, um, eleven murders solved and seven trials.
00:46:27.679 --> 00:46:29.280
What did Capo end up getting?
00:46:29.519 --> 00:46:31.440
He ended up getting four years.
00:46:31.760 --> 00:46:32.079
Okay.
00:46:32.320 --> 00:46:32.719
Yep.
00:46:32.960 --> 00:46:39.119
And um he got bailed shortly after I think he got bail in December of 2003.
00:46:39.679 --> 00:46:40.000
Okay.
00:46:40.320 --> 00:46:40.719
Yep.
00:46:41.119 --> 00:46:43.519
You know, and then he went into the witness security program.
00:46:43.679 --> 00:46:49.840
He kept on saying he wanted to be a success story for me, and I would always tell him, Don't be a success story for me, be a success story for yourself.
00:46:49.920 --> 00:46:50.239
Yeah.
00:46:50.400 --> 00:46:58.800
And he um he became a car like sale like salesman, you know, because I used to tell him you could sell steam shit to a blind to a blind man, you know what I mean?
00:46:58.880 --> 00:47:01.760
And uh because he did have the gip the gab, you know.
00:47:01.920 --> 00:47:04.159
Um and we used to talk sports all the time.
00:47:04.400 --> 00:47:06.719
We both like the Yankees, so we could talk about that.
00:47:07.039 --> 00:47:15.599
And that's what I would do is like, you know, just uh not to m always make it about work, you know, just try to break things down because you always get more bees with honey, right?
00:47:15.920 --> 00:47:23.760
So uh and sometimes people don't realize that when you make people feel at ease, they're more aft to tell you things.
00:47:24.000 --> 00:47:24.719
And that's what he did.
00:47:25.280 --> 00:47:26.000
What about Vinny?
00:47:26.079 --> 00:47:26.719
What did he get?
00:47:27.280 --> 00:47:33.039
Vinny, well, after that trial, he was out on bail, he was in the witness security program.
00:47:33.360 --> 00:47:37.920
After that trial, we remanded him and sent him to um MDC.
00:47:38.559 --> 00:47:41.679
He was uh we sent him to MCC for a while.
00:47:42.320 --> 00:47:48.719
So then I forget how much uh all in all he got, but it was close to the same.
00:47:48.960 --> 00:47:49.199
Okay.
00:47:49.360 --> 00:47:49.599
Yeah.
00:47:50.159 --> 00:47:51.679
Same as um Capo.
00:47:52.000 --> 00:47:53.360
Yeah, something like that.
00:47:53.920 --> 00:47:56.480
So what about the the one you referred to as the tower?
00:47:56.719 --> 00:47:57.519
Um Tommy.
00:47:58.000 --> 00:47:59.760
Tommy didn't get that much time.
00:47:59.840 --> 00:48:00.559
He got less.
00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:01.280
Okay.
00:48:01.440 --> 00:48:01.840
Yeah.
00:48:02.400 --> 00:48:04.559
Um because he was out on bail.
00:48:05.119 --> 00:48:07.679
Um I think he got like three years.
00:48:08.079 --> 00:48:08.400
Okay.
00:48:08.559 --> 00:48:08.800
Yeah.
00:48:09.119 --> 00:48:11.280
But he did he was the one that committed the murder.
00:48:11.519 --> 00:48:19.519
Well, he he wasn't uh he was, I would say in the federal system, you're you're charged with murder, but he wasn't the shooter.
00:48:19.760 --> 00:48:20.000
Okay.
00:48:20.159 --> 00:48:20.480
Yeah.
00:48:20.639 --> 00:48:20.960
All right.
00:48:21.119 --> 00:48:22.960
And that consensual recording was gold.
00:48:23.440 --> 00:48:24.719
Yeah, I probably got it a lot.
00:48:25.199 --> 00:48:32.000
So what is your take on like obviously, you know, the beginnings of the the mob, you know, you take the oath, you don't betray the family.
00:48:32.079 --> 00:48:45.039
And I mean, I think you have like Joseph Flach, he was the first one that kind of pulled the curtain back, and then obviously Sammy the Bull, what he did in the Gambinos and the Gaudi Shrew really kind of opened the floodgates, but still to that point it wasn't a widespread thing.
00:48:45.119 --> 00:48:52.800
But here you guys are basically taking a family that had not had any cooperators to this point, and damn near the whole hierarchy has jumped on board.
00:48:53.039 --> 00:48:56.239
Do you think that sort of set the stage to everything after that?
00:48:56.320 --> 00:49:00.400
Because after that you had, in some cases, bosses, Joe Messina cooperating.
00:49:00.639 --> 00:49:02.320
I mean, it really kind of opened the floodgates.
00:49:02.400 --> 00:49:06.159
Do you think you guys kind of set the standard of hey, this anybody can flip?
00:49:06.480 --> 00:49:12.400
When just like you just said there, if you look at the history, so Sammy cooperates in '91, I believe.
00:49:12.639 --> 00:49:14.000
Yeah, I know it was early nineties.
00:49:14.159 --> 00:49:16.079
And then right after that, Al Diarco.
00:49:16.239 --> 00:49:16.400
Yep.
00:49:16.559 --> 00:49:21.440
But from 91 till Anthony in 99, you don't have anybody.
00:49:21.679 --> 00:49:26.159
And then, as I said, Anthony comes in and it kind of opens up the floodgates.
00:49:26.480 --> 00:49:31.039
And as you just said, Joe Messino, I actually arrested Joe too.
00:49:31.199 --> 00:49:31.599
Really?
00:49:31.760 --> 00:49:32.159
Yeah.
00:49:32.320 --> 00:49:33.920
Uh in Queens there.
00:49:34.239 --> 00:49:41.119
So that squad, as I said, half of us work the bananos, half work the decap Capocantis.
00:49:41.679 --> 00:49:48.320
That set the stage where first it was the decafs, and we destroyed them where so many people cooperated.
00:49:48.400 --> 00:49:54.800
And then right after, at the same time, the bananos were doing the same thing where Salvatale cooperated.
00:49:55.119 --> 00:50:00.800
Um, and it just opened the floodgates there, where I think it started to become the norm to cooperate.
00:50:00.880 --> 00:50:01.360
Right.
00:50:01.760 --> 00:50:04.000
And it really did set the stage.
00:50:04.159 --> 00:50:06.559
Because then, you know, we'll we'll get into this later.
00:50:06.719 --> 00:50:09.599
But then I went down to the Colombo's and it was the same, the same thing.
00:50:09.679 --> 00:50:09.760
Right.
00:50:09.920 --> 00:50:11.199
It just opened the floodgates.
00:50:11.360 --> 00:50:18.400
But during that time period from 91 to 99, you had no one, and then it was Anthony, and it kind of became the norm to cooperate.
00:50:18.480 --> 00:50:18.800
Yeah.
00:50:19.199 --> 00:50:32.559
And what was great for trial was at that point in time, it had never happened before, we were able to put the structure on trial where we had an associate, we had a soldier, we had a captain, we had a boss, you had the hierarchy from the same family.
00:50:32.719 --> 00:50:34.400
Never before from the same family.
00:50:34.559 --> 00:50:34.719
Yeah.
00:50:34.880 --> 00:50:36.079
And we were able to do that.
00:50:36.239 --> 00:50:37.840
Where you can't dispute that.
00:50:37.920 --> 00:50:46.719
It's like these are guys from the same family, and which was great because when they would testify, you know, that's how it works, right?
00:50:46.880 --> 00:50:49.840
Anthony as a soldier would know up to until here.
00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:53.599
The captain would know up until here, and the boss would know the whole thing.
00:50:54.159 --> 00:50:59.360
And to hear them talk would be great because they would just outline the whole thing.
00:50:59.679 --> 00:51:02.719
And uh it was pri uh just priceless to listen to it.
00:51:02.800 --> 00:51:03.360
You know what I mean?
00:51:04.159 --> 00:51:10.800
And this is modeled, you know, a lot of times, and I've heard a lot of people, you know, say, well, they were the basis of the Sopranos.
00:51:10.960 --> 00:51:24.239
And there is a lot of things in there about they talk about no show jobs or no work jobs, and then you have the Wall Street thing, and then obviously the thing with with Tony owning the strip club, which is in there, Sabada Bing, which is based out in Jersey.
00:51:24.320 --> 00:51:26.800
I think it's it's not it's called Satin Dolls, I think.
00:51:26.960 --> 00:51:30.800
Um, but then I also heard him compare to a guy named John Riggy that was over there.
00:51:30.880 --> 00:51:34.639
So, like, is is Tony kind of a culmination of a few different people?
00:51:34.719 --> 00:51:35.920
Or what's your opinion on that?
00:51:36.159 --> 00:51:42.960
I think so, and we can like you know, we we can talk about that in the sense is okay, so the show starts, right?
00:51:43.280 --> 00:51:51.039
The first season, uh Jack Capriel as the boss in the show, dies of stomach cancer.
00:51:51.119 --> 00:51:51.360
Yep.
00:51:51.519 --> 00:51:56.239
In real life, Jacob Maury dies of stomach cancer in June of 1997.
00:51:56.480 --> 00:51:57.360
Very ironic.
00:51:57.679 --> 00:52:01.440
Then, as you just said, you have the strip club, the one in Jersey, the one in Queens.
00:52:01.920 --> 00:52:03.440
Then the bread and butter of the T.
00:52:03.519 --> 00:52:05.679
Callocanti family is the unions.
00:52:06.079 --> 00:52:07.119
They had two unions.
00:52:07.199 --> 00:52:16.079
They had local 394, which is the labor union, and they created the asbestos union, which was 1030, where they actually even had a training school.
00:52:16.320 --> 00:52:23.280
Uh, one of the best quotes from Anthony Capan when he testified was he wouldn't know asbestos if he was sitting on it.
00:52:23.599 --> 00:52:25.920
Where he had a he had a license.
00:52:26.159 --> 00:52:31.280
Where he had, I think it was uh he testified that Manny Riggy said, What do you want us to take the test for?
00:52:31.519 --> 00:52:32.239
And he goes, Yeah.
00:52:32.400 --> 00:52:36.079
And he actually has a license and he didn't even know what asbestos was.
00:52:36.480 --> 00:52:38.320
But those are two unions that they had.
00:52:38.400 --> 00:52:42.079
And then as you just said there, it's like there's so many scams related to that.
00:52:42.159 --> 00:52:43.840
You have the no-show job, right?
00:52:44.000 --> 00:52:45.119
Where you don't even have to go.
00:52:45.199 --> 00:52:47.840
You have the no-work job where you show up, you don't have to work.
00:52:47.920 --> 00:52:50.000
Um, and they're robbing the pension, right?
00:52:50.079 --> 00:52:51.199
That's what they're actually doing.
00:52:51.360 --> 00:52:53.199
And you see that all throughout the show, right?
00:52:53.280 --> 00:52:55.280
Where they have the lounge chairs are sitting there, the doing it.
00:52:55.440 --> 00:52:57.679
Yeah, they're sitting there, chilling out with the fans and everything.
00:52:58.320 --> 00:53:04.159
You know, then you mentioned the stock angle, the two biggest stock guys, it's like Philip Ramo, Wizard of Wall Street.
00:53:04.480 --> 00:53:05.519
Wizard of Wall Street, I've heard of him.
00:53:06.079 --> 00:53:10.239
They all came to him because he was known for shorting stocks, right, all the time.
00:53:10.400 --> 00:53:15.280
Then Victor was a guy that we mentioned there that was involved in the John D'Amano murder.
00:53:15.599 --> 00:53:16.320
Same thing.
00:53:16.480 --> 00:53:18.000
He did stocks all the time.
00:53:18.159 --> 00:53:20.239
That's in that's in the show there, too.
00:53:20.480 --> 00:53:27.440
One of the things that we had, which was priceless for trial, too, is as I said, this investigation started in January of 98.
00:53:27.679 --> 00:53:30.559
The show starts in January of 99.
00:53:30.880 --> 00:53:33.199
We had Ralph, the proactive witness.
00:53:33.360 --> 00:53:39.920
Ralph makes a consensual recording in March of 99 with a bunch of wise guys from the D.L.
00:53:40.079 --> 00:53:44.719
Kenti family, and he has them on tape saying, This is you, this is you, this is you.
00:53:44.960 --> 00:53:46.639
That was priceless for trial.
00:53:46.880 --> 00:53:49.119
It's like all we got to do is hit play.
00:53:49.360 --> 00:53:55.039
You know, then you have uh you mentioned the Jewish fellow there before, Hesh, I guess, right?
00:53:55.360 --> 00:53:55.519
Yep.
00:53:55.679 --> 00:53:58.159
Well, in real life, there's Corky Vestola.
00:53:58.239 --> 00:54:00.000
He was all over the records.
00:54:00.239 --> 00:54:04.880
You know, there's like so many things that are going like you go back and forth.
00:54:05.119 --> 00:54:06.559
You have the meat market, right?
00:54:06.719 --> 00:54:08.320
It's uh Satriol.
00:54:08.559 --> 00:54:09.440
Satriol, yeah.
00:54:09.840 --> 00:54:10.719
There's a real meat market.
00:54:10.800 --> 00:54:14.880
I don't want to say the name of the real meat market, but there's a real meat that they that they went to.
00:54:15.039 --> 00:54:18.880
You know, and so there's there's so many things that uh are similar between the two.
00:54:19.119 --> 00:54:21.440
Do you think Chase had to have an inside man writing that show?
00:54:21.519 --> 00:54:23.119
Because that's a lot of damn similarities.
00:54:23.199 --> 00:54:37.039
And not only that, you do have the point to where Joe Ganiscoli, I think is his name, plays Vito Spadafor, who's taken out for his lifestyle, you know, as being gay, comes out at in the show, which was very, you know, paralleling and what we mentioned with DeMotto.
00:54:37.360 --> 00:54:42.239
So I mean, at this point, do you he had to have somebody from the streets giving him something?
00:54:42.639 --> 00:54:46.800
He says that he doesn't, but it's very ironic that he did it, right?
00:54:47.119 --> 00:54:54.719
Because and even when we're when we're doing our investigations, we're like, it's we're we're we just are investigating that.
00:54:54.880 --> 00:54:55.760
How is that out there?
00:54:55.920 --> 00:54:56.079
Yeah.
00:54:56.239 --> 00:54:58.159
So he had to have somebody or something.
00:54:58.320 --> 00:54:59.840
It's like it just it's just too odd.
00:55:00.079 --> 00:55:02.320
I've interviewed a ton of people from that show.
00:55:02.480 --> 00:55:06.000
Um, the guy that played Gigi, I think his name's John Fiori.
00:55:06.239 --> 00:55:14.800
I interviewed Robert Fernaro, who played Eugene, who wound up hanging himself later in the end of the show when he couldn't get out and he was involved with, you know, uh in the midst of flipping.
00:55:14.960 --> 00:55:19.440
Um the bartender, Georgie uh Patzi that was in there for the whole thing.
00:55:19.519 --> 00:55:21.039
His real name is Dan Grimaldi.
00:55:21.199 --> 00:55:33.199
And a lot of the stories that they would tell me that they said James would tell them is somehow or another, people would get his phone number or ways to contact him and tell them, like, all right, you do this, you don't do that, you know, basically coach him on what to do.
00:55:33.280 --> 00:55:33.360
Right.
00:55:33.840 --> 00:55:36.480
And, you know, how to be more of an authentic, wise guy.
00:55:36.559 --> 00:55:40.960
Because if you listen to the first season of that, like, I mean, he's got a little bit of a twang.
00:55:41.199 --> 00:55:49.440
But from the second season, he really turned it on, and then it was just it was just a flawless performance by Gandalfini from the whole thing.
00:55:49.599 --> 00:55:57.679
But definitely you can tell a twang difference from the first season to the second, and then from the second on, I mean, he just nailed it and embodied it.
00:55:57.760 --> 00:56:11.119
And from everybody that I've talked to, you know, guys that were in the life that have done the you know the worst things there are to do, said that that's probably the most authentic characterization of a person because yeah, he was ruthless when he could be, but he wasn't always ruthless.
00:56:11.199 --> 00:56:12.559
He did have a softer side.
00:56:12.719 --> 00:56:22.320
Seemingly he had this, you know, caring for animals and people that couldn't defend themselves, but at the same time wouldn't mind slapping somebody and and throwing them off a boat.
00:56:22.559 --> 00:56:25.679
I mean, is that kind of like what what these guys are really like?
00:56:25.920 --> 00:56:29.599
Yeah, you know, um, well, A, some of them were really smart.
00:56:29.760 --> 00:56:29.920
Yeah.
00:56:30.159 --> 00:56:34.880
I mean, it's like like look, we just had an arrest about six or seven month months ago, right?
00:56:34.960 --> 00:56:36.480
Where they had for it for the gambling.
00:56:36.559 --> 00:56:39.039
It's like some of the techniques they use there were really, really sharp.
00:56:39.119 --> 00:56:42.480
It's like that was one of involving the coach uh uh the referees and everything, right?
00:56:42.559 --> 00:56:42.639
Yeah.
00:56:42.880 --> 00:56:43.119
Exactly.
00:56:43.199 --> 00:56:45.039
You know, like you know, they're they're smart guys.
00:56:45.119 --> 00:56:49.360
You know, if they apply themselves in a different manner, they probably can make even more money, you know what I mean?
00:56:49.599 --> 00:56:52.239
And like people say to me all the time, are they gonna go away?
00:56:52.400 --> 00:56:55.039
They've been around for 125 years, they're not going away.
00:56:55.280 --> 00:56:58.239
It's like they might not be in the spotlight as much, but they're not going away.
00:56:58.320 --> 00:57:00.559
I mean, and that's what they want, right?
00:57:00.719 --> 00:57:06.000
It's like I if you speak to them and I'm sure, I'm sure, I'm sure, I'm sure you have, they didn't like Gotti.
00:57:06.239 --> 00:57:07.440
Gotti was too flashy.
00:57:07.519 --> 00:57:08.159
That's what they want.
00:57:08.239 --> 00:57:09.440
They don't want to be in a spotlight.
00:57:09.519 --> 00:57:14.159
They don't they don't want you to know who owns this building or who owns that that type of bit of the business.
00:57:14.320 --> 00:57:15.199
That that's what they want.
00:57:15.280 --> 00:57:17.039
They want to be under the radar, right?
00:57:17.119 --> 00:57:18.239
But they're not gonna go away.
00:57:18.320 --> 00:57:22.880
They might not be as strong as they were, but they're gonna they're always gonna find a way to make money.
00:57:22.960 --> 00:57:23.119
Yeah.
00:57:23.280 --> 00:57:27.840
And that's that's the and to me, it's always been like a cat and mouse game, right?
00:57:28.000 --> 00:57:29.519
And if I got you, I got you.
00:57:29.679 --> 00:57:32.800
Even if I know that you did it and I don't got you, I don't have you.
00:57:32.880 --> 00:57:33.440
You know what I mean?
00:57:33.840 --> 00:57:36.239
The the guy you mentioned a guy earlier like Rudy Farron.
00:57:36.400 --> 00:57:39.840
I've heard a lot of talks about him and the and the type of guy that he was.
00:57:40.159 --> 00:57:41.280
9-11.
00:57:41.599 --> 00:57:44.639
I I interviewed Rita Jigansi, who was the Chen's daughter.
00:57:44.960 --> 00:57:45.199
Okay.
00:57:45.599 --> 00:57:58.960
And from what I understand, obviously he had this ruse that he was, you know, office rocker or wackadoo or whatever, walk down the street in the bathroom, the whole the whole bit, which again parallels kind of the things that Junior did in the show as the the older Don as well.
00:57:59.360 --> 00:58:11.599
But he actually had a lucid conversation on the phone with her after 9-11, which was one of the things that kind of put I think he was going down anyway, but that just kind of you know uncorked the bottle, so to speak, on that whole thing.
00:58:11.760 --> 00:58:18.000
But that was a thing that when they seen that he was obviously lucid enough to understand what was going on, that kind of peeled the cap off of it.
00:58:18.159 --> 00:58:19.920
Um, but what about Rudy Faron?
00:58:20.239 --> 00:58:22.559
What what did you hear about him and was he involved in any of those cases?
00:58:22.800 --> 00:58:23.920
I never heard you mention bring him up.
00:58:26.320 --> 00:58:33.280
I didn't know if y'all had yeah, things that were g building up to it or I think he passed away in ninety-seven as well.
00:58:33.599 --> 00:58:33.760
Okay.
00:58:34.239 --> 00:58:35.840
So he probably would have been had he stayed alive.
00:58:36.079 --> 00:58:36.159
Right.
00:58:36.239 --> 00:58:36.960
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:58:37.199 --> 00:58:41.920
Uh, because he was all like he was part of the John John D'Amato murder, you know, like he was part of that.
00:58:42.079 --> 00:58:42.320
Yep.
00:58:42.480 --> 00:58:46.559
Um, and as I said, they all were part of the Fred White Weiss murder, too.
00:58:46.719 --> 00:58:49.760
So uh but yeah, yeah, I think he passed away in 997.
00:58:49.840 --> 00:58:52.079
I know Anthony was very like close with him as well.
00:58:52.239 --> 00:58:52.559
Yep.
00:58:52.719 --> 00:58:57.599
And he even said he goes, he goes, if Rudy was still here, I don't know if I would have have played ball.
00:58:57.760 --> 00:58:58.079
Yeah.
00:58:58.239 --> 00:59:01.119
You know, yeah, he was very old school by the book.
00:59:01.199 --> 00:59:09.840
A lot of what I um again, did you uh have you in your time there, did you know the guy I was talking about, James Siracco, they called him Jimmy?
00:59:10.239 --> 00:59:11.360
I've I've heard of him, yes.
00:59:11.599 --> 00:59:11.840
Okay.
00:59:12.320 --> 00:59:14.639
Um he's the one that told me a lot on the decafs.
00:59:14.880 --> 00:59:21.119
I interviewed him and then I also interviewed uh Giovanni Rocco, who he was more focused on the Stango faction and and everything.
00:59:21.599 --> 00:59:23.920
That kind of that was before yours or right after your Yeah, right.
00:59:24.079 --> 00:59:25.760
So related to that, that's funny, right?
00:59:25.840 --> 00:59:29.199
In the sense is Stango's an interesting person.
00:59:29.360 --> 00:59:32.400
He was in R case and he pled guilty.
00:59:32.559 --> 00:59:42.880
And he got 13 years in our case, goes to jail, he comes out, and then he gets involved in their case.
00:59:43.199 --> 00:59:46.559
Anthony Zampogna was on my squad on C10.
00:59:46.639 --> 00:59:55.519
Anthony then goes to Jersey and he becomes FBI supervisor in Jersey, and G and G and G Giovanni Rocco is the undercover there.
00:59:55.599 --> 00:59:55.760
Right.
00:59:56.000 --> 00:59:58.480
And they target Stango again.
00:59:58.719 --> 01:00:01.360
And Stango gets 10 years in that case.
01:00:01.440 --> 01:00:05.360
So, and he he didn't he had even done time before our case.
01:00:05.519 --> 01:00:12.079
So I don't even know how much time the guy's done in jail, but he's done a load of time in jail, and that case is great too.
01:00:12.159 --> 01:00:15.360
And I know they had to take it down because I think they were going to kill kill someone, right?
01:00:15.679 --> 01:00:16.239
Yep, yeah.
01:00:16.400 --> 01:00:16.559
Yep.
01:00:16.719 --> 01:00:20.320
Uh, but yeah, it's like Stango's done a boatload of time in jail.
01:00:20.400 --> 01:00:23.440
I think he's close to 80 now, from I remember.
01:00:23.760 --> 01:00:28.639
And you mentioned something too, and I don't know if there's any correlation to this, but a lot of these guys are into sports.
01:00:28.880 --> 01:00:32.000
You mentioned him coming out, I think he was talking about Anthony with the Cowboys.
01:00:32.320 --> 01:00:34.559
There's a there's a picture of John Jr.
01:00:34.880 --> 01:00:36.320
with a Cowboys jacket on.
01:00:36.400 --> 01:00:38.239
You would think all these guys around him would be Giants fans.
01:00:38.320 --> 01:00:39.760
What's with all the Cowboys stuff?
01:00:40.079 --> 01:00:45.440
Well, when I was young, right, the Steelers were good and the Cowboys were good.
01:00:45.679 --> 01:00:47.440
I'm talking the 70s.
01:00:47.519 --> 01:00:52.079
Yeah, I'm a loyal guy, so I just stayed with the Steelers and I think the same, same thing.
01:00:52.239 --> 01:00:55.199
Uh Cowboys think it's good until the eight until the eighties, right?
01:00:55.360 --> 01:00:57.039
So I think uh that's part of it.
01:00:57.199 --> 01:00:57.440
Okay.
01:00:57.599 --> 01:00:59.519
But yeah, because I remember seeing as a picture with John.
01:01:00.079 --> 01:01:01.599
It might be Bigotti, I think.
01:01:01.760 --> 01:01:02.639
Gotti junior.
01:01:02.719 --> 01:01:05.280
I think it might even be Gotti wearing the the Cowboys thing.
01:01:05.360 --> 01:01:07.760
And it's just odd as diehards they are about sports down there.
01:01:07.840 --> 01:01:12.079
I mean, we're here what the day their Knicks are about to play for the possibly the championship tonight.
01:01:12.239 --> 01:01:14.480
I mean, these this town is crazy about their sports.
01:01:14.559 --> 01:01:19.199
So to see these guys with the Cowboys gears on was always was always odd to me.
01:01:19.360 --> 01:01:28.559
Um what do these guys any of these guys ever reached out to you after like I can imagine you probably it's in a weird way, even though you're opposite sides of the fence.
01:01:28.639 --> 01:01:32.559
I mean, you kind of become friends with these guys to a certain degree and have a relationship with them.
01:01:32.800 --> 01:01:36.400
I've had many comp conversations with guys that decided not to cooperate.
01:01:36.559 --> 01:01:39.679
Yeah, it's not you don't make it personal whatsoever.
01:01:39.760 --> 01:01:42.480
And that's what I used to tell people that had had worked for me too.
01:01:42.719 --> 01:01:43.760
This is just a job.
01:01:43.920 --> 01:01:45.840
One day you're not gonna have that badge.
01:01:46.079 --> 01:01:47.679
So treat people with respect.
01:01:47.840 --> 01:01:51.199
You know, that's just the way the way to do to do things, you know what I mean.
01:01:51.360 --> 01:01:55.599
So, and there's many times I spoke to people that decided not to cooperate.
01:01:55.760 --> 01:01:58.800
You can have a comp conversation with them, you know what I mean?
01:01:59.119 --> 01:02:04.400
Um, and it's yeah, I I get calls Christmas, Easter, birthdays, yeah.
01:02:04.559 --> 01:02:06.559
You know, so I still still speak to people.
01:02:06.719 --> 01:02:07.039
Nice.
01:02:07.119 --> 01:02:09.119
Uh, tell everybody where they can grab the book from.
01:02:09.360 --> 01:02:11.679
You can go to Born to Noble, or you go to Amazon.
01:02:11.840 --> 01:02:15.280
It's called Flipping Capo, How the FBI Dismantled the Real Sopranos.
01:02:15.440 --> 01:02:15.760
Nice.
01:02:15.920 --> 01:02:18.320
Well, ladies and gentlemen, be sure to go check out that book.
01:02:18.400 --> 01:02:19.760
Let me know what you think in the comments.
01:02:19.920 --> 01:02:21.679
Let you know what let me know what you think of this video.
01:02:21.760 --> 01:02:23.920
Uh, are you on any social medias as well?
01:02:24.159 --> 01:02:24.800
Not really.
01:02:25.039 --> 01:02:25.360
Okay.
01:02:25.840 --> 01:02:29.440
Well, we always like if you do have it, shout out the handles, but definitely go check it out.
01:02:29.599 --> 01:02:30.719
Flipping Capo.
01:02:30.880 --> 01:02:32.800
Seamus, we appreciate you coming on the show, my friend.
01:02:32.960 --> 01:02:35.280
Definitely gonna have you back to talk about the Columbus.
01:02:35.360 --> 01:02:39.519
I've done a lot of interviews with a lot of people close, even Chris Colombo, the son of Joe.
01:02:39.679 --> 01:02:41.360
So we can definitely get into something on that as well.
01:02:41.440 --> 01:02:42.480
So look forward to having you back.
01:02:42.719 --> 01:02:43.119
Sounds great.
01:02:43.199 --> 01:02:43.760
Thank you, my friend.