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Welcome to Creative Conversations, a podcast exploring contemporary art plants and future.
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This episode asks what makes us human.
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Join us as we put AI to the test and ask what happens to creativity, critical thinking, and our individual voice when machines can create too.
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Hello, Sandy.
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Hey Jones, how are you going?
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Welcome to my studio.
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No worries, RK.
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RKJ.
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I can't believe after 25, 66 years.
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You've known me and you've just found out my middle name.
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Yep.
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K.
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It's old-missioned.
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It doesn't get banded around a lot.
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No.
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So now you're going to call me R K J.
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RK.
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Why?
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Does it sound like JFK?
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Uh yeah, or um, what's uh Robert Downey Jr.
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R D J.
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Kind of just rolls off the tongue.
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It's gonna be a bit weird after 26 years.
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You've been calling me Jones for so long.
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I know, I know.
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What?
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Yeah.
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What?
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Hey, enough of that banter.
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Hey, what's on your mind today, Sanji?
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Is there a oi?
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Seems very topical.
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Do you mean AI?
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Well, since you put it that way, sure.
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You say it so eloquently.
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Some South Australian.
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Very long bowed.
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AI.
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AI.
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What do you do?
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Where is the world going?
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Where is the world going with this?
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AI.
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Why has it piqued your interest recently?
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Well, it seems to be in the news, ad nauseum.
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Like everyone's talking about it.
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Uh, whether it be you know what's gonna happen with jobs, what's happening in the art world, science, um uh uh science world.
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Um, there's lots of things going on.
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Um I'm not so much about the art world, but I think generally how does it fit into society on the greater level?
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That's definitely up the conversation.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, yeah.
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What do you think about that?
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Um well, if you listen to news outlets, uh there's a lot of stuff being talking about like in terms of job losses and what that will mean for future generations and all that sort of stuff.
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And um, it's hard to know.
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I I I don't know.
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I I don't think anyone knows exactly how that's gonna change society, um, whether it's gonna be better or worse or or somewhere in the middle.
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I I've no idea, but it's certainly gonna change things.
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I think that's that's a fact.
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Um, things will change.
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Um, and I don't know, is it just up to us to maybe go with the flow and and see what we can do with it?
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I don't think you want to go with the flow.
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I think to go blindly ahead and not be aware of what's going on.
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Yeah, yeah.
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That is insanity.
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I am an advocate of AI, I use it in my job as an artist.
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I do use it because I'm uh sole business or entrepreneur, so to speak.
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And so it's just me.
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And so I use it as a sounding board.
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I know I was an early adopter of AI.
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Yeah, okay.
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Um, but I don't use it in a way that writes for me, or I don't use it in the way that it creates artwork for me.
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I use it as a tool.
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Okay, so you're driving it, you're um explain that.
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Like when you say you use it as a tool, like what exactly what does what does that entail for an artist?
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Oh basic things.
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I get concerned about my grammar, so I will do a grammar check.
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If I'm writing something or an excel check, okay, I will I will check that.
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Like that's a basic level.
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I probably don't even need to use AI for that.
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Does AI come back and say this is uh this is too simple for me?
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Yeah, ask me a more difficult question.
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I mean, I've got more brain power than things.
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Well, I I think it's like I said, basic things, uh, grandma.
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Basic research, if I'm wondering about an idea, I I might use it to investigate.
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I might say, give me four references, and then I will check those references, and then I will utilize and grab the information I need from those references, but I won't get it to write for me.
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I think that's not helpful.
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I'm also concerned about how stodgy my brain might get if I relied on that.
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Like the cognitive unload, I think is too easy.
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Uh, can you just do that for me?
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Yeah, uh it's it's it's a concern.
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I I'm concerned about that.
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I'm concerned about where humanity, humankind is actually going with this, like in terms of if we allow um AI or you know, tech or whatever you want to call it, uh quantum, quantum computing, to um take over the direction uh of where we go as a species.
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What does that mean for us?
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Like, will that change us irrevocably in terms of who we are?
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Will the drive to innovate with the drive to solve puzzles, will the drive to explore be taken away from us because we're just gonna allow something, something else, this little box in the corner, to um figure it out for us?
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That that's a concern to me.
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Uh, I think that's that's a bit weird.
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I hope we don't get there.
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I hope we always have it maybe bubbling away in the background, but we're always driving the ship, as it were.
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I think that's important.
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I think you've got to ask it the right questions.
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I I think there is a lot of like um are you planning on taking over the world?
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Well, I don't think AI is.
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I think perhaps the people who own the platforms, the large language model platforms, might be looking at the uh dollar signs up for grabs.
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Yeah, yeah, definitely.
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And perhaps that's got to be careful where when you put your money, so to speak.
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Or I think people are always still going to be relevant, right?
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Because the large language model, it's not a human, is getting all that information out there from humans and is a copy of, it's not doing it exactly as.
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For instance, we we actually wanted to see how far uh this, like we were using chat GPT, weren't we just before?
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We were.
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Yeah, we we thought, well, let's put this to the test in regards to how original can it be?
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Because it's a it's a way of getting information and resources, but for generating new ideas, I'm not sure you can really rely on it for that.
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But we did put it to the test because I have used AI a lot in regards to Chat GPT.
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I have a subscription to ChatGPT and it's a sounding board, it's a research tool, but I don't use it to generate my writing or to generate my artwork because they're intrinsically me.
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And I don't think I don't want my voice to be lost or diluted, and I also want to be able to think critically on what I'm wanting to say or create.
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But we did use it just before, and we asked Chat GBT, we said, can you create an original artwork in the style of Rebecca Jones?
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And we chose my body of work, chosen words to create an artwork.
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And it did, right?
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It did.
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In fairness, it did, it was able to generate a piece of art.
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Um but was it in your style?
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This perhaps requires some more exploration.
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Well, I'm not concerned about losing my job, put it that way.
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All right, so um AI has not taken over the world just yet.
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I'm not gonna outsource AI to make my artwork for me, put it that way.
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Well, not in that context of like we were asking AI um to do like I I like charcoal drawings.
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That's what I would say is one of my strong absolutely yeah, it's the it's the charcoal work.
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And so we asked AI to create an artwork.
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There's a body of work that I'm creating, and hopefully we'll have a show in January actually, but it's on communication and words, and so I do these charcoal drawings where I combine words and images together, and they have this nice synergy on the page, and there's a lot of depth you can get sucked into the work when you view one of my works, or perhaps you can describe one of mine because you've seen my I'm sure that we actually discussed one of these uh works in a previous episode.
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Oh, I think I've already thought about it.
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I'm sure we did.
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Um we did, didn't we?
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I looked at what you made me do.
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Yeah.
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Yes.
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Yeah, so that one, um, and so that way, I mean, I don't know for you, had when you see that work, how does it make you feel?
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Not that we have to discuss it, but I think for the sake of AI, setting up a precedent.
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Yeah, well, we were actually chatting about it before, you know, your work seems to have like this amazing sort of depth.
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Um, and when when you do that type of uh charcoal drawing, it's almost like there's a little bit of a labyrinth or maze at play, and and it's fascinating to see that listening to you explain that and then starting to understand uh your art piece a little more, and then comparing that to what AI actually generated.
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There was none of that.
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There was none of that.
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I just looked at it and I think it was just a very simple.
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Sorry AI for listening.
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Don't take it out on us.
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Please let this video work.
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And it was very glib.
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I don't know, it was like it was almost like a sign that you want to put up in your in your office or something that says like love, live life or something.
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I don't know.
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It was a bit obvious, a bit, bit, bit bland.
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It was a bit bland.
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It was a bit like it sort of almost what was that?
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Um, one of my favorite movies is The Secret Life of Walter Mitty.
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I love that film.
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And where Walter gets the portapus.
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But you know, like their head CEO is a bit of a doofus, you know, the guy that comes in to restructure.
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Yes.
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This is the Ben Stiller movie, just a reference.
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I think there's two it actually is a remake.
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There was one, I think this is the 60s maybe.
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I haven't actually seen that one.
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So it's the Ben Stiller.
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The Ben Stiller movie that I absolutely love.
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I think it's just a it's a gorgeous movie.
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It's an amazing film.
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And uh, but there's one part where there is the sea of downsizing the whole corporation and getting rid of all these people, and and Walter character asks him to what is the quote of the organization of this life magazine.
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Life magazine, yeah.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And he and he doesn't know it.
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He was like I think he quotes McDonald's to live life loving it or something.
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Was it Maccas or Coke?
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I'm not sure.
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It was um live life or something.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Anyway, he missed the mark completely.
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And I feel ChatGVT just like we asked him to do one of my artworks, and it's like, you kind of know what I'm about, but you still miss the mark.
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So I'm not concerned.
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It's not gonna take away.
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I think with with AI, it's gonna streamline a lot of things, but you've got to be careful.
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Well, you've got to ask the question what is it streamlining and what is the value of it?
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And you can't just think, oh my goodness, it can do all these jobs really fast, and we can do it and make more profit.
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I think that's concerning.
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I I think at this point, AI is, shall we say, offering the illusion that it is able to think.
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But is it sentient?
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I'm not sure that it's there yet.
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Is it you know it's able, it's got amazing processing power and comparative power, and it can generate things according to instructional um uh or instructions that you feed it, but is it alive?
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Uh, you know, is it a sentient being?
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I don't think so.
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But I don't know what the future holds.
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You know, like will it could it could it evolve into that?
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I've no idea.
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Maybe I've watched too many slides for the five years.
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I don't I don't know.
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At the moment, I mean I'd say I'm just no, I don't know.
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I don't know.
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I don't think I'd want it to be.
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Well, that's what the techies are talking about, you know.
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Um it be able to think for itself someday.
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I mean, it's already got deep reasoning just based on the information that it can harvest.
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Yeah.
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Um but I think you still have to take control of the information that you've got and you'd have to still fact check.
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Yeah.
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And also I don't think you want it to dilute your voice, or I don't think you want it to be I don't know, just be like snacking on junk food all the time.
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It's not it's gonna catch up with you.
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Like it seems fun at the time, but you're gonna feel ill after a while.
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All right, so we're in no danger of T1000s uh terminators marching down the street just yet.
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I don't know.
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Great.
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Well, I think it's human well for me.
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I feel that I'm well I don't know if I'm always optimistic, but I'm hopeful.
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I'm hopeful for the human species.
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This is what I like about you, Jones.
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You're always you're always hopeful.
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Yeah, I do like that.
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Even in the thick of hell.
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It's gotta get better soon.
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Good luck.
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No, that's just menopause.
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Yeah, I think you've got to be hopeful, right?
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Yeah, yeah.
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But I think you've got to go for you can't run away from it and you can't say, oh my goodness, that's all dim and gloom.
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This is awful.
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Okay, yep.
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I think it's on most things, right?
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You've got to step into it and see, well, this is on offer, this is happening, this is clearly happening.
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What skills do I need in order to navigate it?
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Yeah, yeah.
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You don't want to become complacent.
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No, and and look, it does offer some amazing opportunities in terms, you know, we were talking about earlier, some of the um potential medical breakthroughs that are possible with this sort of stuff, and quantum computing that's supposedly around the corner, and data processing that once used to take weeks, months, whatever can be done in seconds or hours.
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The potential is there to change the world, to make it a better place.
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And it's up to us to make it a better place.
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Yeah, it's always up to us.
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The world is what we make of it.
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Yeah.
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So um I like to be hopeful.
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I think that's hoping for the best.
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Yeah, I like I prefer to be hopeful.
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Um, because I think there's always um that opportunity exists for us to be better.
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Yeah.
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But um uh it's not to say that there aren't plenty of Gronks in the world.
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So but anyway, we're just gonna have to navigate that, aren't we?
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Yeah, exactly.
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Yeah, I think so.
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Have you used it before?
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AI?
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Uh very sparingly, just you know, on searches and stuff.
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Um to find very, very limited.
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Um not really.
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And like, you know, if you if you search up stuff, you know, you get like an AI response.
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So it's built into Google now.
00:15:03.039 --> 00:15:03.360
Oh, it is.
00:15:03.519 --> 00:15:04.559
Well, that's right, you can't avoid it.
00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:05.679
Yeah, you can't avoid it.
00:15:05.759 --> 00:15:10.080
So inadvertently, I think we've all used it um without realizing.
00:15:10.240 --> 00:15:12.960
But I I'm I'm a bit like you.
00:15:13.039 --> 00:15:17.039
I you know, I I prefer to be uh master of my own destiny.
00:15:17.759 --> 00:15:23.200
And um I'm I'm a little bit tech averse being a gen Xer.
00:15:23.519 --> 00:15:26.639
Yes, yes, my uh my my family will testify to that.
00:15:27.440 --> 00:15:29.039
Yeah, uh bit tech averse.
00:15:29.120 --> 00:15:35.840
But um uh yeah, I I'm not I'm not drawn to sort of going down that road.
00:15:36.000 --> 00:15:47.200
Um, because I I'm I'm not terribly interested in tech um and what it offers, but I also understand by the same token, it's it's the future.
00:15:47.360 --> 00:15:52.399
It's best to understand it, it's best to uh, as you say, lean into it a little bit at some point.
00:15:52.720 --> 00:15:56.639
I think to lean into it to understand, but not lean into it to get it to do all your work.
00:15:56.879 --> 00:15:57.519
No, no.
00:15:57.600 --> 00:16:00.480
I'll I think you've really got to ask relevant questions.
00:16:00.639 --> 00:16:09.039
And even at the minute, I um in the media at the moment is that the concept of jobs gonna replace by AI.
00:16:09.360 --> 00:16:23.039
But if you were to replace those humans with AI, you're not sure what you're signing up for because at the moment, a lot of these AI tools uh you get a subscription and it's a flat rate, but there is talk that that fee structure will change.
00:16:23.200 --> 00:16:27.840
And so then you're gonna be beholden to a few They're always gonna meter it, right?
00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:30.159
They're not gonna give you this for nothing.
00:16:31.120 --> 00:16:33.759
Yeah, it's always gonna be met, it's gonna cost you.
00:16:34.080 --> 00:16:45.360
And so I I'm I'm curious because I thought the whole idea of streamlining everything and going down this road was to reduce the cost of all goods and services to make a utopia.
00:16:45.919 --> 00:16:47.279
I mean you are the optimist.
00:16:47.679 --> 00:16:51.279
But but I'm not sure that that that's that's gonna happen in the near future.
00:16:52.639 --> 00:16:56.559
I'm not I'm not sure, but anyway, uh we we live in hope.
00:16:56.960 --> 00:16:57.919
We live in hope, Sandy.
00:16:58.080 --> 00:16:58.879
Yeah, we live in hope.
00:16:59.039 --> 00:17:02.080
But okay, what about what about in the art world?
00:17:02.399 --> 00:17:12.240
I found fascinating when we fed those instructions, or you fed those instructions in and asked AI to generate that artwork that closely mimicked your work.
00:17:12.640 --> 00:17:24.880
Well, I think that's the key there, because because it was my subscription and my account, yes, and it had information about me, and I was asking it to generate an artwork for me.
00:17:25.279 --> 00:17:25.839
This was interesting.
00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:26.880
This is an interesting point.
00:17:27.119 --> 00:17:27.680
It was very interesting.
00:17:27.839 --> 00:17:29.759
Because I didn't think this was the case, right?
00:17:29.920 --> 00:17:46.000
Because uh it's been well documented in the media that AI has been fed a bunch of info um uh about humanity, everything has been fed into AI systems to teach it, to get AI to understand who and what we are.
00:17:46.799 --> 00:18:02.640
But when you and I were marking around with ChatGTP and um uh asked it to uh you know create a uh an artwork for another artist, it said, uh, can't really do that because um that's that's another artist.
00:18:03.039 --> 00:18:10.240
But for you, because you you were the um OG artist, um it actually would comply.
00:18:10.720 --> 00:18:11.759
So I found that interesting.
00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:13.759
That was that was that that was good.
00:18:13.920 --> 00:18:15.759
I actually uh was pleased to see that.
00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:19.759
Well, I mean, I think we were saying it will be clear, but I think we sort of jumped the gun a bit there.
00:18:19.839 --> 00:18:29.200
So we asked Chat GPT to create an artwork based in the manner of Rebecca Jones and my chosen word series, and it complied.
00:18:29.359 --> 00:18:32.960
I took some images of the work and we uploaded it and it did it.
00:18:33.279 --> 00:18:38.400
But as a comparison, we said, okay, can you make us an artwork in the manner of Cecily Brown?
00:18:38.559 --> 00:18:42.000
And she's an English-American painter, one of my favorite painters.
00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:48.319
And that's where Chat TV said, No, we can't make it in the manner of Cecily Brown.
00:18:48.400 --> 00:19:00.960
Although they said, if you can make if you want an artwork that is expressionistic painterly, then we can do one, yeah, but not an exact copy or replica of Cecily Brown.
00:19:01.279 --> 00:19:02.240
So that's reassuring.
00:19:02.559 --> 00:19:03.359
That is reassuring.
00:19:03.519 --> 00:19:03.920
For the minute.
00:19:04.160 --> 00:19:09.759
There is conversations about wanting to get changed the copyright on that, but um in ChatGPT.
00:19:09.839 --> 00:19:12.480
But I haven't kept it, I haven't read anything recently but it's sitting.
00:19:12.880 --> 00:19:20.880
But you'd have to word it in a way to do generic as opposed to specific of an artist.
00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:27.440
I'm sure you could feed in enough instructional questioning and um to get somewhere close.
00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:28.559
To get somewhere close.
00:19:28.799 --> 00:19:30.079
But once again, it's just a copy, right?
00:19:30.400 --> 00:19:31.119
It's just a copy.
00:19:31.279 --> 00:19:40.000
Well, from what from what we saw, uh copy is being um you know uh it's not good.
00:19:40.240 --> 00:19:40.960
Yeah, no, no.
00:19:41.039 --> 00:19:44.319
Well, I'm just saying it's it's it's barely barely a copy.
00:19:44.400 --> 00:19:46.720
Like, oh, I see what you mean when you're going.
00:19:47.039 --> 00:19:50.079
It's not even like no, it was just it was it's not even in the same realm.
00:19:50.240 --> 00:19:51.359
No, I think I don't know.
00:19:51.440 --> 00:19:52.799
Did I just look like what?
00:19:53.599 --> 00:19:57.279
Yeah, she's all right.
00:19:57.599 --> 00:20:01.119
I guess there's elements there, but no, yeah.
00:20:01.359 --> 00:20:03.279
It was too generic for me.
00:20:03.359 --> 00:20:08.240
It was like, okay, Rebecca Jones, you're broken down into words and into image.
00:20:08.319 --> 00:20:08.480
Yeah.
00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:09.599
And here you go.
00:20:09.759 --> 00:20:11.599
But there's more to my work than that.
00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:16.240
And it was almost like it were well It was distilling it into separate elements.
00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:23.759
Yes, and but you know, we're always more than the sum of our parts, and all the little bits in between just weren't there.
00:20:24.160 --> 00:20:29.279
Everything that makes us human and interesting was absent from that piece of work.
00:20:29.519 --> 00:20:30.559
I think that's the key, isn't it?
00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:33.359
Because why are you drawn to certain artworks?
00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:35.440
What is it that draws you to an artwork sense?
00:20:35.599 --> 00:20:37.200
Well, it's an intangible, isn't it?
00:20:37.359 --> 00:20:41.200
What you like and what I like and what somebody else likes, often it's not the same.
00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:43.839
But does it move us in a way that we can't articulate?
00:20:43.920 --> 00:20:52.160
Does it move our spirit in a way that it just stops us in it, stops us in our moment and we absolutely that that's exactly what it does.
00:20:52.319 --> 00:20:54.319
There's an emotional response that you have.
00:20:54.480 --> 00:20:54.720
Yeah.
00:20:54.960 --> 00:20:56.480
Or that that's what happens to me.
00:20:56.799 --> 00:21:02.319
When I see something, uh, an art piece that interests me, I can't really explain why.
00:21:02.559 --> 00:21:04.240
But I know it's doing something.
00:21:04.640 --> 00:21:06.400
There's like a visceral reaction that I have.
00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:16.319
Yeah, and with the with the chat TPT or anything like that, it's not you don't get that breathtaking stop or of beauty or awe or intrigue.
00:21:16.480 --> 00:21:18.960
It's just like something's a bit off kilter.
00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:23.599
It's more that's weird, but it's not quite right.
00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:30.880
And so I think you've really got to have your wits about you when you're looking at a lot of information now because it might not be true.
00:21:31.519 --> 00:21:32.799
Oh, video-wise?
00:21:32.960 --> 00:21:33.200
Yeah.
00:21:33.359 --> 00:21:34.799
Oh, goodness gracious.
00:21:35.440 --> 00:21:37.039
You can't trust anything now.
00:21:38.960 --> 00:21:47.599
It really is starting, it's becoming more difficult to pick what the AI-driven part of a video is.
00:21:47.920 --> 00:21:53.519
And uh people that are spending time putting these things together are becoming more skilled.
00:21:53.839 --> 00:21:54.079
Yeah.
00:21:54.319 --> 00:21:59.200
Um, and so it's really difficult to ascertain what's true and what's not.
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:02.240
Before it used to be fact.
00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:05.119
If there's a video or a photo of it, well, you just accepted it.
00:22:05.200 --> 00:22:09.119
But I think we're in we we're in an age now where you just can't do that anymore.
00:22:09.279 --> 00:22:16.319
You just have to delve deeper and just find out who's taken the video, for what purpose.
00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:18.240
Um, you just have to delve a little bit.
00:22:18.640 --> 00:22:20.799
You have to dig deeper to find the resources, don't you?
00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:26.559
And to work out what is the source of that material and what is the relevance of it and what is the agenda behind it.
00:22:26.799 --> 00:22:27.200
Yeah.
00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:31.039
And if in doubt, ask a young person, they'll tell you if it's ever driven or not.
00:22:31.119 --> 00:22:32.880
They'll they know, they just know instantly.
00:22:33.279 --> 00:22:33.680
They do.
00:22:33.839 --> 00:22:34.559
They actually do.
00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:35.759
Yeah, it's amazing.
00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:36.160
Yeah.
00:22:36.319 --> 00:22:36.559
Yeah.
00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:38.000
I said, no, that's rubbish.
00:22:38.079 --> 00:22:38.240
Okay.
00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:42.240
You know, you can tell.
00:22:42.400 --> 00:22:43.039
Yeah, you can tell.
00:22:43.119 --> 00:22:43.279
Yeah.
00:22:43.440 --> 00:22:44.640
Well, they can tell quicker than I do.
00:22:44.960 --> 00:22:45.519
Yeah, definitely.
00:22:45.599 --> 00:22:47.440
My daughter can tell definitely faster than me.
00:22:47.599 --> 00:22:52.000
Yeah, Gen Z aren't good at explaining uh how, but they know.
00:22:56.240 --> 00:22:57.039
Well, there you go.
00:22:57.119 --> 00:22:59.519
So maybe AI is not all dim and gloom.
00:22:59.839 --> 00:23:00.559
No, no.
00:23:00.640 --> 00:23:03.359
Uh yeah, as you're saying, you know, the world's what we make of it.
00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:08.160
So um, I'm always hopeful for a bigger and better tomorrow.
00:23:09.759 --> 00:23:11.759
Well, here's to tomorrow then, Sandy.
00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:12.960
Here's to tomorrow, Jones.
00:23:13.119 --> 00:23:13.920
Yeah, I think we're okay.
00:23:14.319 --> 00:23:14.960
I think we're good.
00:23:15.039 --> 00:23:20.319
Just key, I think the key is creativity is more important now than ever.
00:23:20.640 --> 00:23:21.440
Yeah, absolutely.
00:23:21.759 --> 00:23:22.640
Yeah, yeah.
00:23:22.720 --> 00:23:30.319
And even if that means using AI to achieve said creativity, maybe it's not such a bad thing.
00:23:30.559 --> 00:23:31.920
Once again, it's just a tool.
00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:32.720
Just a tool.
00:23:32.880 --> 00:23:33.440
It's just a tool.
00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:35.599
As long as it doesn't cover your voice, you're good to go.
00:23:35.680 --> 00:23:35.920
Yeah.
00:23:36.079 --> 00:23:37.119
Yeah, harness it.
00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:38.240
Off you go.
00:23:38.640 --> 00:23:41.359
All right, well, we can't even say let's go have lunch because we've already had lunch.
00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:42.880
We've already had lunch, we've already eaten.
00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:44.640
Next time.
00:23:44.799 --> 00:23:45.279
Till next time.
00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:46.319
Chao ciao.
00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:50.559
Thanks for listening to Creative Conversations.
00:23:50.960 --> 00:23:52.720
Hey, I might be here to stay.
00:23:53.519 --> 00:23:57.599
The challenge is making sure Apple Voice doesn't get lost along the way.
00:23:57.839 --> 00:24:01.599
Join us next time as we continue exploring outside French.
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.879
Welcome to Creative Conversations, a podcast exploring contemporary art plants and future.
00:00:05.360 --> 00:00:08.720
This episode asks what makes us human.
00:00:08.960 --> 00:00:18.160
Join us as we put AI to the test and ask what happens to creativity, critical thinking, and our individual voice when machines can create too.
00:00:26.239 --> 00:00:27.359
Hello, Sandy.
00:00:27.760 --> 00:00:28.879
Hey Jones, how are you going?
00:00:29.120 --> 00:00:30.399
Welcome to my studio.
00:00:30.640 --> 00:00:31.679
No worries, RK.
00:00:32.240 --> 00:00:32.960
RKJ.
00:00:33.600 --> 00:00:38.079
I can't believe after 25, 66 years.
00:00:38.320 --> 00:00:40.719
You've known me and you've just found out my middle name.
00:00:40.960 --> 00:00:41.280
Yep.
00:00:41.600 --> 00:00:41.840
K.
00:00:44.079 --> 00:00:45.280
It's old-missioned.
00:00:45.359 --> 00:00:47.119
It doesn't get banded around a lot.
00:00:47.280 --> 00:00:47.520
No.
00:00:47.679 --> 00:00:50.079
So now you're going to call me R K J.
00:00:50.479 --> 00:00:50.880
RK.
00:00:51.439 --> 00:00:51.679
Why?
00:00:51.840 --> 00:00:53.280
Does it sound like JFK?
00:00:53.759 --> 00:00:57.200
Uh yeah, or um, what's uh Robert Downey Jr.
00:00:57.439 --> 00:00:58.240
R D J.
00:00:59.759 --> 00:01:01.439
Kind of just rolls off the tongue.
00:01:02.880 --> 00:01:04.799
It's gonna be a bit weird after 26 years.
00:01:04.879 --> 00:01:06.400
You've been calling me Jones for so long.
00:01:07.599 --> 00:01:08.159
I know, I know.
00:01:08.400 --> 00:01:08.640
What?
00:01:08.799 --> 00:01:08.959
Yeah.
00:01:09.200 --> 00:01:09.519
What?
00:01:10.319 --> 00:01:11.760
Hey, enough of that banter.
00:01:12.560 --> 00:01:14.799
Hey, what's on your mind today, Sanji?
00:01:14.959 --> 00:01:18.239
Is there a oi?
00:01:21.280 --> 00:01:22.319
Seems very topical.
00:01:22.400 --> 00:01:23.920
Do you mean AI?
00:01:25.120 --> 00:01:27.760
Well, since you put it that way, sure.
00:01:28.400 --> 00:01:30.000
You say it so eloquently.
00:01:30.400 --> 00:01:31.760
Some South Australian.
00:01:31.920 --> 00:01:33.280
Very long bowed.
00:01:36.159 --> 00:01:36.799
AI.
00:01:37.200 --> 00:01:37.680
AI.
00:01:38.079 --> 00:01:38.719
What do you do?
00:01:39.120 --> 00:01:39.920
Where is the world going?
00:01:40.000 --> 00:01:41.120
Where is the world going with this?
00:01:41.359 --> 00:01:41.760
AI.
00:01:41.920 --> 00:01:44.719
Why has it piqued your interest recently?
00:01:45.040 --> 00:01:47.359
Well, it seems to be in the news, ad nauseum.
00:01:47.599 --> 00:01:49.599
Like everyone's talking about it.
00:01:49.840 --> 00:02:00.560
Uh, whether it be you know what's gonna happen with jobs, what's happening in the art world, science, um uh uh science world.
00:02:00.719 --> 00:02:03.120
Um, there's lots of things going on.
00:02:03.519 --> 00:02:09.840
Um I'm not so much about the art world, but I think generally how does it fit into society on the greater level?
00:02:10.080 --> 00:02:11.680
That's definitely up the conversation.
00:02:12.000 --> 00:02:12.400
Yeah.
00:02:12.639 --> 00:02:13.280
Yeah, yeah.
00:02:13.439 --> 00:02:14.879
What do you think about that?
00:02:15.680 --> 00:02:28.319
Um well, if you listen to news outlets, uh there's a lot of stuff being talking about like in terms of job losses and what that will mean for future generations and all that sort of stuff.
00:02:28.479 --> 00:02:30.639
And um, it's hard to know.
00:02:30.800 --> 00:02:32.159
I I I don't know.
00:02:32.240 --> 00:02:41.759
I I don't think anyone knows exactly how that's gonna change society, um, whether it's gonna be better or worse or or somewhere in the middle.
00:02:41.840 --> 00:02:45.520
I I've no idea, but it's certainly gonna change things.
00:02:45.599 --> 00:02:47.439
I think that's that's a fact.
00:02:47.520 --> 00:02:49.280
Um, things will change.
00:02:49.680 --> 00:02:55.759
Um, and I don't know, is it just up to us to maybe go with the flow and and see what we can do with it?
00:02:56.080 --> 00:02:57.840
I don't think you want to go with the flow.
00:02:58.240 --> 00:03:01.840
I think to go blindly ahead and not be aware of what's going on.
00:03:02.000 --> 00:03:02.479
Yeah, yeah.
00:03:02.719 --> 00:03:03.919
That is insanity.
00:03:04.080 --> 00:03:08.400
I am an advocate of AI, I use it in my job as an artist.
00:03:08.560 --> 00:03:13.520
I do use it because I'm uh sole business or entrepreneur, so to speak.
00:03:13.599 --> 00:03:14.879
And so it's just me.
00:03:14.960 --> 00:03:17.120
And so I use it as a sounding board.
00:03:17.280 --> 00:03:20.000
I know I was an early adopter of AI.
00:03:20.080 --> 00:03:20.560
Yeah, okay.
00:03:20.719 --> 00:03:28.879
Um, but I don't use it in a way that writes for me, or I don't use it in the way that it creates artwork for me.
00:03:28.960 --> 00:03:30.080
I use it as a tool.
00:03:30.400 --> 00:03:37.759
Okay, so you're driving it, you're um explain that.
00:03:37.840 --> 00:03:43.919
Like when you say you use it as a tool, like what exactly what does what does that entail for an artist?
00:03:44.240 --> 00:03:46.240
Oh basic things.
00:03:46.400 --> 00:03:50.080
I get concerned about my grammar, so I will do a grammar check.
00:03:51.759 --> 00:03:56.560
If I'm writing something or an excel check, okay, I will I will check that.
00:03:56.639 --> 00:03:57.759
Like that's a basic level.
00:03:57.840 --> 00:03:59.280
I probably don't even need to use AI for that.
00:04:00.080 --> 00:04:03.759
Does AI come back and say this is uh this is too simple for me?
00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:06.319
Yeah, ask me a more difficult question.
00:04:09.280 --> 00:04:12.000
I mean, I've got more brain power than things.
00:04:15.520 --> 00:04:18.800
Well, I I think it's like I said, basic things, uh, grandma.
00:04:19.199 --> 00:04:24.959
Basic research, if I'm wondering about an idea, I I might use it to investigate.
00:04:25.120 --> 00:04:35.120
I might say, give me four references, and then I will check those references, and then I will utilize and grab the information I need from those references, but I won't get it to write for me.
00:04:35.279 --> 00:04:37.600
I think that's not helpful.
00:04:38.160 --> 00:04:42.480
I'm also concerned about how stodgy my brain might get if I relied on that.
00:04:42.879 --> 00:04:45.839
Like the cognitive unload, I think is too easy.
00:04:45.920 --> 00:04:47.519
Uh, can you just do that for me?
00:04:47.839 --> 00:04:50.079
Yeah, uh it's it's it's a concern.
00:04:50.240 --> 00:04:51.519
I I'm concerned about that.
00:04:51.680 --> 00:05:13.360
I'm concerned about where humanity, humankind is actually going with this, like in terms of if we allow um AI or you know, tech or whatever you want to call it, uh quantum, quantum computing, to um take over the direction uh of where we go as a species.
00:05:14.160 --> 00:05:15.360
What does that mean for us?
00:05:15.519 --> 00:05:19.519
Like, will that change us irrevocably in terms of who we are?
00:05:19.839 --> 00:05:33.360
Will the drive to innovate with the drive to solve puzzles, will the drive to explore be taken away from us because we're just gonna allow something, something else, this little box in the corner, to um figure it out for us?
00:05:33.600 --> 00:05:35.120
That that's a concern to me.
00:05:35.199 --> 00:05:37.199
Uh, I think that's that's a bit weird.
00:05:37.439 --> 00:05:38.879
I hope we don't get there.
00:05:38.959 --> 00:05:45.120
I hope we always have it maybe bubbling away in the background, but we're always driving the ship, as it were.
00:05:45.279 --> 00:05:46.240
I think that's important.
00:05:46.480 --> 00:05:48.319
I think you've got to ask it the right questions.
00:05:48.560 --> 00:05:52.240
I I think there is a lot of like um are you planning on taking over the world?
00:05:53.040 --> 00:05:54.319
Well, I don't think AI is.
00:05:54.399 --> 00:06:02.959
I think perhaps the people who own the platforms, the large language model platforms, might be looking at the uh dollar signs up for grabs.
00:06:03.120 --> 00:06:03.920
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
00:06:04.160 --> 00:06:08.560
And perhaps that's got to be careful where when you put your money, so to speak.
00:06:08.639 --> 00:06:11.279
Or I think people are always still going to be relevant, right?
00:06:11.439 --> 00:06:20.399
Because the large language model, it's not a human, is getting all that information out there from humans and is a copy of, it's not doing it exactly as.
00:06:20.560 --> 00:06:27.279
For instance, we we actually wanted to see how far uh this, like we were using chat GPT, weren't we just before?
00:06:27.600 --> 00:06:27.920
We were.
00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:33.279
Yeah, we we thought, well, let's put this to the test in regards to how original can it be?
00:06:33.439 --> 00:06:40.160
Because it's a it's a way of getting information and resources, but for generating new ideas, I'm not sure you can really rely on it for that.
00:06:40.639 --> 00:06:46.240
But we did put it to the test because I have used AI a lot in regards to Chat GPT.
00:06:46.319 --> 00:06:58.399
I have a subscription to ChatGPT and it's a sounding board, it's a research tool, but I don't use it to generate my writing or to generate my artwork because they're intrinsically me.
00:06:58.480 --> 00:07:06.560
And I don't think I don't want my voice to be lost or diluted, and I also want to be able to think critically on what I'm wanting to say or create.
00:07:07.120 --> 00:07:16.800
But we did use it just before, and we asked Chat GBT, we said, can you create an original artwork in the style of Rebecca Jones?
00:07:16.879 --> 00:07:21.680
And we chose my body of work, chosen words to create an artwork.
00:07:22.000 --> 00:07:23.120
And it did, right?
00:07:23.360 --> 00:07:23.680
It did.
00:07:23.839 --> 00:07:28.720
In fairness, it did, it was able to generate a piece of art.
00:07:29.279 --> 00:07:32.800
Um but was it in your style?
00:07:33.120 --> 00:07:36.879
This perhaps requires some more exploration.
00:07:38.319 --> 00:07:41.600
Well, I'm not concerned about losing my job, put it that way.
00:07:43.279 --> 00:07:47.120
All right, so um AI has not taken over the world just yet.
00:07:47.439 --> 00:07:50.800
I'm not gonna outsource AI to make my artwork for me, put it that way.
00:07:50.879 --> 00:07:58.399
Well, not in that context of like we were asking AI um to do like I I like charcoal drawings.
00:07:58.480 --> 00:08:03.680
That's what I would say is one of my strong absolutely yeah, it's the it's the charcoal work.
00:08:04.000 --> 00:08:06.319
And so we asked AI to create an artwork.
00:08:06.399 --> 00:08:31.360
There's a body of work that I'm creating, and hopefully we'll have a show in January actually, but it's on communication and words, and so I do these charcoal drawings where I combine words and images together, and they have this nice synergy on the page, and there's a lot of depth you can get sucked into the work when you view one of my works, or perhaps you can describe one of mine because you've seen my I'm sure that we actually discussed one of these uh works in a previous episode.
00:08:31.519 --> 00:08:32.639
Oh, I think I've already thought about it.
00:08:32.879 --> 00:08:33.840
I'm sure we did.
00:08:34.000 --> 00:08:35.759
Um we did, didn't we?
00:08:35.840 --> 00:08:36.879
I looked at what you made me do.
00:08:37.039 --> 00:08:37.279
Yeah.
00:08:37.440 --> 00:08:37.679
Yes.
00:08:37.840 --> 00:08:44.320
Yeah, so that one, um, and so that way, I mean, I don't know for you, had when you see that work, how does it make you feel?
00:08:44.480 --> 00:08:47.919
Not that we have to discuss it, but I think for the sake of AI, setting up a precedent.
00:08:48.159 --> 00:08:54.240
Yeah, well, we were actually chatting about it before, you know, your work seems to have like this amazing sort of depth.
00:08:54.399 --> 00:09:13.919
Um, and when when you do that type of uh charcoal drawing, it's almost like there's a little bit of a labyrinth or maze at play, and and it's fascinating to see that listening to you explain that and then starting to understand uh your art piece a little more, and then comparing that to what AI actually generated.
00:09:14.080 --> 00:09:15.279
There was none of that.
00:09:15.919 --> 00:09:16.799
There was none of that.
00:09:17.120 --> 00:09:21.360
I just looked at it and I think it was just a very simple.
00:09:24.799 --> 00:09:26.480
Sorry AI for listening.
00:09:26.639 --> 00:09:28.320
Don't take it out on us.
00:09:28.720 --> 00:09:30.480
Please let this video work.
00:09:34.480 --> 00:09:35.759
And it was very glib.
00:09:36.000 --> 00:09:44.320
I don't know, it was like it was almost like a sign that you want to put up in your in your office or something that says like love, live life or something.
00:09:44.480 --> 00:09:44.879
I don't know.
00:09:45.600 --> 00:09:47.919
It was a bit obvious, a bit, bit, bit bland.
00:09:48.159 --> 00:09:49.039
It was a bit bland.
00:09:49.120 --> 00:09:51.279
It was a bit like it sort of almost what was that?
00:09:51.360 --> 00:09:54.559
Um, one of my favorite movies is The Secret Life of Walter Mitty.
00:09:54.960 --> 00:09:55.519
I love that film.
00:09:55.840 --> 00:09:58.639
And where Walter gets the portapus.
00:10:03.120 --> 00:10:07.919
But you know, like their head CEO is a bit of a doofus, you know, the guy that comes in to restructure.
00:10:08.080 --> 00:10:08.159
Yes.
00:10:08.320 --> 00:10:10.000
This is the Ben Stiller movie, just a reference.
00:10:10.159 --> 00:10:12.879
I think there's two it actually is a remake.
00:10:12.960 --> 00:10:15.360
There was one, I think this is the 60s maybe.
00:10:16.320 --> 00:10:17.120
I haven't actually seen that one.
00:10:17.360 --> 00:10:18.399
So it's the Ben Stiller.
00:10:19.279 --> 00:10:20.799
The Ben Stiller movie that I absolutely love.
00:10:20.960 --> 00:10:23.039
I think it's just a it's a gorgeous movie.
00:10:23.200 --> 00:10:24.000
It's an amazing film.
00:10:24.399 --> 00:10:37.519
And uh, but there's one part where there is the sea of downsizing the whole corporation and getting rid of all these people, and and Walter character asks him to what is the quote of the organization of this life magazine.
00:10:37.919 --> 00:10:38.799
Life magazine, yeah.
00:10:38.879 --> 00:10:39.200
Yeah, yeah.
00:10:39.360 --> 00:10:40.480
And he and he doesn't know it.
00:10:40.559 --> 00:10:44.799
He was like I think he quotes McDonald's to live life loving it or something.
00:10:44.960 --> 00:10:46.159
Was it Maccas or Coke?
00:10:46.639 --> 00:10:47.120
I'm not sure.
00:10:47.200 --> 00:10:49.440
It was um live life or something.
00:10:49.600 --> 00:10:50.000
Yeah, yeah.
00:10:50.240 --> 00:10:51.759
Anyway, he missed the mark completely.
00:10:51.919 --> 00:11:01.360
And I feel ChatGVT just like we asked him to do one of my artworks, and it's like, you kind of know what I'm about, but you still miss the mark.
00:11:01.519 --> 00:11:03.759
So I'm not concerned.
00:11:03.919 --> 00:11:05.039
It's not gonna take away.
00:11:05.120 --> 00:11:09.440
I think with with AI, it's gonna streamline a lot of things, but you've got to be careful.
00:11:09.519 --> 00:11:13.120
Well, you've got to ask the question what is it streamlining and what is the value of it?
00:11:13.360 --> 00:11:18.000
And you can't just think, oh my goodness, it can do all these jobs really fast, and we can do it and make more profit.
00:11:18.240 --> 00:11:20.000
I think that's concerning.
00:11:20.320 --> 00:11:27.279
I I think at this point, AI is, shall we say, offering the illusion that it is able to think.
00:11:27.919 --> 00:11:30.240
But is it sentient?
00:11:30.399 --> 00:11:32.559
I'm not sure that it's there yet.
00:11:32.720 --> 00:11:46.480
Is it you know it's able, it's got amazing processing power and comparative power, and it can generate things according to instructional um uh or instructions that you feed it, but is it alive?
00:11:46.559 --> 00:11:48.320
Uh, you know, is it a sentient being?
00:11:48.399 --> 00:11:49.360
I don't think so.
00:11:49.679 --> 00:11:51.919
But I don't know what the future holds.
00:11:52.080 --> 00:11:55.600
You know, like will it could it could it evolve into that?
00:11:55.679 --> 00:11:56.320
I've no idea.
00:11:56.559 --> 00:11:58.159
Maybe I've watched too many slides for the five years.
00:11:59.360 --> 00:12:00.080
I don't I don't know.
00:12:00.159 --> 00:12:03.600
At the moment, I mean I'd say I'm just no, I don't know.
00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:04.240
I don't know.
00:12:04.799 --> 00:12:05.759
I don't think I'd want it to be.
00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:08.000
Well, that's what the techies are talking about, you know.
00:12:08.080 --> 00:12:14.240
Um it be able to think for itself someday.
00:12:14.960 --> 00:12:18.720
I mean, it's already got deep reasoning just based on the information that it can harvest.
00:12:19.039 --> 00:12:19.279
Yeah.
00:12:20.799 --> 00:12:26.159
Um but I think you still have to take control of the information that you've got and you'd have to still fact check.
00:12:26.320 --> 00:12:26.639
Yeah.
00:12:27.679 --> 00:12:35.279
And also I don't think you want it to dilute your voice, or I don't think you want it to be I don't know, just be like snacking on junk food all the time.
00:12:35.360 --> 00:12:36.799
It's not it's gonna catch up with you.
00:12:36.879 --> 00:12:40.960
Like it seems fun at the time, but you're gonna feel ill after a while.
00:12:43.360 --> 00:12:49.279
All right, so we're in no danger of T1000s uh terminators marching down the street just yet.
00:12:49.679 --> 00:12:50.240
I don't know.
00:12:51.039 --> 00:12:51.600
Great.
00:12:52.399 --> 00:12:54.240
Well, I think it's human well for me.
00:12:54.399 --> 00:12:59.200
I feel that I'm well I don't know if I'm always optimistic, but I'm hopeful.
00:12:59.519 --> 00:13:01.840
I'm hopeful for the human species.
00:13:02.080 --> 00:13:03.279
This is what I like about you, Jones.
00:13:03.600 --> 00:13:05.279
You're always you're always hopeful.
00:13:05.440 --> 00:13:06.480
Yeah, I do like that.
00:13:07.120 --> 00:13:08.559
Even in the thick of hell.
00:13:10.159 --> 00:13:12.240
It's gotta get better soon.
00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:14.159
Good luck.
00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:18.080
No, that's just menopause.
00:13:24.320 --> 00:13:26.879
Yeah, I think you've got to be hopeful, right?
00:13:27.039 --> 00:13:27.519
Yeah, yeah.
00:13:27.679 --> 00:13:32.559
But I think you've got to go for you can't run away from it and you can't say, oh my goodness, that's all dim and gloom.
00:13:32.639 --> 00:13:33.200
This is awful.
00:13:33.440 --> 00:13:34.080
Okay, yep.
00:13:34.320 --> 00:13:35.600
I think it's on most things, right?
00:13:35.679 --> 00:13:40.240
You've got to step into it and see, well, this is on offer, this is happening, this is clearly happening.
00:13:40.399 --> 00:13:42.879
What skills do I need in order to navigate it?
00:13:43.039 --> 00:13:43.600
Yeah, yeah.
00:13:43.759 --> 00:13:45.519
You don't want to become complacent.
00:13:45.919 --> 00:14:06.720
No, and and look, it does offer some amazing opportunities in terms, you know, we were talking about earlier, some of the um potential medical breakthroughs that are possible with this sort of stuff, and quantum computing that's supposedly around the corner, and data processing that once used to take weeks, months, whatever can be done in seconds or hours.
00:14:06.960 --> 00:14:11.519
The potential is there to change the world, to make it a better place.
00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:14.159
And it's up to us to make it a better place.
00:14:14.399 --> 00:14:16.240
Yeah, it's always up to us.
00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:18.240
The world is what we make of it.
00:14:18.480 --> 00:14:18.799
Yeah.
00:14:19.039 --> 00:14:21.519
So um I like to be hopeful.
00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:23.440
I think that's hoping for the best.
00:14:23.600 --> 00:14:25.679
Yeah, I like I prefer to be hopeful.
00:14:25.840 --> 00:14:32.480
Um, because I think there's always um that opportunity exists for us to be better.
00:14:32.799 --> 00:14:33.120
Yeah.
00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:38.000
But um uh it's not to say that there aren't plenty of Gronks in the world.
00:14:40.639 --> 00:14:43.679
So but anyway, we're just gonna have to navigate that, aren't we?
00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:44.720
Yeah, exactly.
00:14:44.879 --> 00:14:45.519
Yeah, I think so.
00:14:45.600 --> 00:14:46.480
Have you used it before?
00:14:46.720 --> 00:14:47.279
AI?
00:14:47.600 --> 00:14:51.120
Uh very sparingly, just you know, on searches and stuff.
00:14:51.200 --> 00:14:53.759
Um to find very, very limited.
00:14:53.840 --> 00:14:55.759
Um not really.
00:14:55.840 --> 00:15:00.720
And like, you know, if you if you search up stuff, you know, you get like an AI response.
00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:02.720
So it's built into Google now.
00:15:03.039 --> 00:15:03.360
Oh, it is.
00:15:03.519 --> 00:15:04.559
Well, that's right, you can't avoid it.
00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:05.679
Yeah, you can't avoid it.
00:15:05.759 --> 00:15:10.080
So inadvertently, I think we've all used it um without realizing.
00:15:10.240 --> 00:15:12.960
But I I'm I'm a bit like you.
00:15:13.039 --> 00:15:17.039
I you know, I I prefer to be uh master of my own destiny.
00:15:17.759 --> 00:15:23.200
And um I'm I'm a little bit tech averse being a gen Xer.
00:15:23.519 --> 00:15:26.639
Yes, yes, my uh my my family will testify to that.
00:15:27.440 --> 00:15:29.039
Yeah, uh bit tech averse.
00:15:29.120 --> 00:15:35.840
But um uh yeah, I I'm not I'm not drawn to sort of going down that road.
00:15:36.000 --> 00:15:47.200
Um, because I I'm I'm not terribly interested in tech um and what it offers, but I also understand by the same token, it's it's the future.
00:15:47.360 --> 00:15:52.399
It's best to understand it, it's best to uh, as you say, lean into it a little bit at some point.
00:15:52.720 --> 00:15:56.639
I think to lean into it to understand, but not lean into it to get it to do all your work.
00:15:56.879 --> 00:15:57.519
No, no.
00:15:57.600 --> 00:16:00.480
I'll I think you've really got to ask relevant questions.
00:16:00.639 --> 00:16:09.039
And even at the minute, I um in the media at the moment is that the concept of jobs gonna replace by AI.
00:16:09.360 --> 00:16:23.039
But if you were to replace those humans with AI, you're not sure what you're signing up for because at the moment, a lot of these AI tools uh you get a subscription and it's a flat rate, but there is talk that that fee structure will change.
00:16:23.200 --> 00:16:27.840
And so then you're gonna be beholden to a few They're always gonna meter it, right?
00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:30.159
They're not gonna give you this for nothing.
00:16:31.120 --> 00:16:33.759
Yeah, it's always gonna be met, it's gonna cost you.
00:16:34.080 --> 00:16:45.360
And so I I'm I'm curious because I thought the whole idea of streamlining everything and going down this road was to reduce the cost of all goods and services to make a utopia.
00:16:45.919 --> 00:16:47.279
I mean you are the optimist.
00:16:47.679 --> 00:16:51.279
But but I'm not sure that that that's that's gonna happen in the near future.
00:16:52.639 --> 00:16:56.559
I'm not I'm not sure, but anyway, uh we we live in hope.
00:16:56.960 --> 00:16:57.919
We live in hope, Sandy.
00:16:58.080 --> 00:16:58.879
Yeah, we live in hope.
00:16:59.039 --> 00:17:02.080
But okay, what about what about in the art world?
00:17:02.399 --> 00:17:12.240
I found fascinating when we fed those instructions, or you fed those instructions in and asked AI to generate that artwork that closely mimicked your work.
00:17:12.640 --> 00:17:24.880
Well, I think that's the key there, because because it was my subscription and my account, yes, and it had information about me, and I was asking it to generate an artwork for me.
00:17:25.279 --> 00:17:25.839
This was interesting.
00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:26.880
This is an interesting point.
00:17:27.119 --> 00:17:27.680
It was very interesting.
00:17:27.839 --> 00:17:29.759
Because I didn't think this was the case, right?
00:17:29.920 --> 00:17:46.000
Because uh it's been well documented in the media that AI has been fed a bunch of info um uh about humanity, everything has been fed into AI systems to teach it, to get AI to understand who and what we are.
00:17:46.799 --> 00:18:02.640
But when you and I were marking around with ChatGTP and um uh asked it to uh you know create a uh an artwork for another artist, it said, uh, can't really do that because um that's that's another artist.
00:18:03.039 --> 00:18:10.240
But for you, because you you were the um OG artist, um it actually would comply.
00:18:10.720 --> 00:18:11.759
So I found that interesting.
00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:13.759
That was that was that that was good.
00:18:13.920 --> 00:18:15.759
I actually uh was pleased to see that.
00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:19.759
Well, I mean, I think we were saying it will be clear, but I think we sort of jumped the gun a bit there.
00:18:19.839 --> 00:18:29.200
So we asked Chat GPT to create an artwork based in the manner of Rebecca Jones and my chosen word series, and it complied.
00:18:29.359 --> 00:18:32.960
I took some images of the work and we uploaded it and it did it.
00:18:33.279 --> 00:18:38.400
But as a comparison, we said, okay, can you make us an artwork in the manner of Cecily Brown?
00:18:38.559 --> 00:18:42.000
And she's an English-American painter, one of my favorite painters.
00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:48.319
And that's where Chat TV said, No, we can't make it in the manner of Cecily Brown.
00:18:48.400 --> 00:19:00.960
Although they said, if you can make if you want an artwork that is expressionistic painterly, then we can do one, yeah, but not an exact copy or replica of Cecily Brown.
00:19:01.279 --> 00:19:02.240
So that's reassuring.
00:19:02.559 --> 00:19:03.359
That is reassuring.
00:19:03.519 --> 00:19:03.920
For the minute.
00:19:04.160 --> 00:19:09.759
There is conversations about wanting to get changed the copyright on that, but um in ChatGPT.
00:19:09.839 --> 00:19:12.480
But I haven't kept it, I haven't read anything recently but it's sitting.
00:19:12.880 --> 00:19:20.880
But you'd have to word it in a way to do generic as opposed to specific of an artist.
00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:27.440
I'm sure you could feed in enough instructional questioning and um to get somewhere close.
00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:28.559
To get somewhere close.
00:19:28.799 --> 00:19:30.079
But once again, it's just a copy, right?
00:19:30.400 --> 00:19:31.119
It's just a copy.
00:19:31.279 --> 00:19:40.000
Well, from what from what we saw, uh copy is being um you know uh it's not good.
00:19:40.240 --> 00:19:40.960
Yeah, no, no.
00:19:41.039 --> 00:19:44.319
Well, I'm just saying it's it's it's barely barely a copy.
00:19:44.400 --> 00:19:46.720
Like, oh, I see what you mean when you're going.
00:19:47.039 --> 00:19:50.079
It's not even like no, it was just it was it's not even in the same realm.
00:19:50.240 --> 00:19:51.359
No, I think I don't know.
00:19:51.440 --> 00:19:52.799
Did I just look like what?
00:19:53.599 --> 00:19:57.279
Yeah, she's all right.
00:19:57.599 --> 00:20:01.119
I guess there's elements there, but no, yeah.
00:20:01.359 --> 00:20:03.279
It was too generic for me.
00:20:03.359 --> 00:20:08.240
It was like, okay, Rebecca Jones, you're broken down into words and into image.
00:20:08.319 --> 00:20:08.480
Yeah.
00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:09.599
And here you go.
00:20:09.759 --> 00:20:11.599
But there's more to my work than that.
00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:16.240
And it was almost like it were well It was distilling it into separate elements.
00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:23.759
Yes, and but you know, we're always more than the sum of our parts, and all the little bits in between just weren't there.
00:20:24.160 --> 00:20:29.279
Everything that makes us human and interesting was absent from that piece of work.
00:20:29.519 --> 00:20:30.559
I think that's the key, isn't it?
00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:33.359
Because why are you drawn to certain artworks?
00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:35.440
What is it that draws you to an artwork sense?
00:20:35.599 --> 00:20:37.200
Well, it's an intangible, isn't it?
00:20:37.359 --> 00:20:41.200
What you like and what I like and what somebody else likes, often it's not the same.
00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:43.839
But does it move us in a way that we can't articulate?
00:20:43.920 --> 00:20:52.160
Does it move our spirit in a way that it just stops us in it, stops us in our moment and we absolutely that that's exactly what it does.
00:20:52.319 --> 00:20:54.319
There's an emotional response that you have.
00:20:54.480 --> 00:20:54.720
Yeah.
00:20:54.960 --> 00:20:56.480
Or that that's what happens to me.
00:20:56.799 --> 00:21:02.319
When I see something, uh, an art piece that interests me, I can't really explain why.
00:21:02.559 --> 00:21:04.240
But I know it's doing something.
00:21:04.640 --> 00:21:06.400
There's like a visceral reaction that I have.
00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:16.319
Yeah, and with the with the chat TPT or anything like that, it's not you don't get that breathtaking stop or of beauty or awe or intrigue.
00:21:16.480 --> 00:21:18.960
It's just like something's a bit off kilter.
00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:23.599
It's more that's weird, but it's not quite right.
00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:30.880
And so I think you've really got to have your wits about you when you're looking at a lot of information now because it might not be true.
00:21:31.519 --> 00:21:32.799
Oh, video-wise?
00:21:32.960 --> 00:21:33.200
Yeah.
00:21:33.359 --> 00:21:34.799
Oh, goodness gracious.
00:21:35.440 --> 00:21:37.039
You can't trust anything now.
00:21:38.960 --> 00:21:47.599
It really is starting, it's becoming more difficult to pick what the AI-driven part of a video is.
00:21:47.920 --> 00:21:53.519
And uh people that are spending time putting these things together are becoming more skilled.
00:21:53.839 --> 00:21:54.079
Yeah.
00:21:54.319 --> 00:21:59.200
Um, and so it's really difficult to ascertain what's true and what's not.
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:02.240
Before it used to be fact.
00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:05.119
If there's a video or a photo of it, well, you just accepted it.
00:22:05.200 --> 00:22:09.119
But I think we're in we we're in an age now where you just can't do that anymore.
00:22:09.279 --> 00:22:16.319
You just have to delve deeper and just find out who's taken the video, for what purpose.
00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:18.240
Um, you just have to delve a little bit.
00:22:18.640 --> 00:22:20.799
You have to dig deeper to find the resources, don't you?
00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:26.559
And to work out what is the source of that material and what is the relevance of it and what is the agenda behind it.
00:22:26.799 --> 00:22:27.200
Yeah.
00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:31.039
And if in doubt, ask a young person, they'll tell you if it's ever driven or not.
00:22:31.119 --> 00:22:32.880
They'll they know, they just know instantly.
00:22:33.279 --> 00:22:33.680
They do.
00:22:33.839 --> 00:22:34.559
They actually do.
00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:35.759
Yeah, it's amazing.
00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:36.160
Yeah.
00:22:36.319 --> 00:22:36.559
Yeah.
00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:38.000
I said, no, that's rubbish.
00:22:38.079 --> 00:22:38.240
Okay.
00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:42.240
You know, you can tell.
00:22:42.400 --> 00:22:43.039
Yeah, you can tell.
00:22:43.119 --> 00:22:43.279
Yeah.
00:22:43.440 --> 00:22:44.640
Well, they can tell quicker than I do.
00:22:44.960 --> 00:22:45.519
Yeah, definitely.
00:22:45.599 --> 00:22:47.440
My daughter can tell definitely faster than me.
00:22:47.599 --> 00:22:52.000
Yeah, Gen Z aren't good at explaining uh how, but they know.
00:22:56.240 --> 00:22:57.039
Well, there you go.
00:22:57.119 --> 00:22:59.519
So maybe AI is not all dim and gloom.
00:22:59.839 --> 00:23:00.559
No, no.
00:23:00.640 --> 00:23:03.359
Uh yeah, as you're saying, you know, the world's what we make of it.
00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:08.160
So um, I'm always hopeful for a bigger and better tomorrow.
00:23:09.759 --> 00:23:11.759
Well, here's to tomorrow then, Sandy.
00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:12.960
Here's to tomorrow, Jones.
00:23:13.119 --> 00:23:13.920
Yeah, I think we're okay.
00:23:14.319 --> 00:23:14.960
I think we're good.
00:23:15.039 --> 00:23:20.319
Just key, I think the key is creativity is more important now than ever.
00:23:20.640 --> 00:23:21.440
Yeah, absolutely.
00:23:21.759 --> 00:23:22.640
Yeah, yeah.
00:23:22.720 --> 00:23:30.319
And even if that means using AI to achieve said creativity, maybe it's not such a bad thing.
00:23:30.559 --> 00:23:31.920
Once again, it's just a tool.
00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:32.720
Just a tool.
00:23:32.880 --> 00:23:33.440
It's just a tool.
00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:35.599
As long as it doesn't cover your voice, you're good to go.
00:23:35.680 --> 00:23:35.920
Yeah.
00:23:36.079 --> 00:23:37.119
Yeah, harness it.
00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:38.240
Off you go.
00:23:38.640 --> 00:23:41.359
All right, well, we can't even say let's go have lunch because we've already had lunch.
00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:42.880
We've already had lunch, we've already eaten.
00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:44.640
Next time.
00:23:44.799 --> 00:23:45.279
Till next time.
00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:46.319
Chao ciao.
00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:50.559
Thanks for listening to Creative Conversations.
00:23:50.960 --> 00:23:52.720
Hey, I might be here to stay.
00:23:53.519 --> 00:23:57.599
The challenge is making sure Apple Voice doesn't get lost along the way.
00:23:57.839 --> 00:24:01.599
Join us next time as we continue exploring outside French.
